What do you hope to do with your horse?

 

The saddleseat horses I rode happily went in a basic western bit, like this one, while we weren't actively practicing for showing (in either a snaffle/draw reins/martingale or double bridle). Using something very different seemed to give them an "off" switch.

 

I wouldn't say that bit is super harsh. You could simply back up to a typical single jointed snaffle with a basic 7/16" diameter mouth. He's probably going to go through it at first. This is what I do with OTTBs, btw. You ask very softly, if he doesn't respond, you immediately STOP asking with both reins and go to asking with just one. You can ease up the pressure on that one rein until he softens and yields. As long as you go very slowly in the escalation, so that he sees you coming a mile away, you won't cause him to brace up. Way more horses are caused to get tense off of a quick pull than a slow but firm pull. You're proably going to soften him one rein at a time 30k times, but he'll get the picture and soften. Softness is in the mind, not the mouth. Going very slowly as you take up the slack on that one rein is the hardest part to self-master, but it's also the most important part. He'll start anticipating and responding quickly. He'll also have his brain turned on, which may be a new experience for him. It seems too simple to work, but it's the best method for ths type of reprogramming. The bit you've pictured isn't all that harsh with a two handed pull, but gets a lot harsher with a one rein pull. Harsher with one that's already braced up is gasoline on a fire. He has to be comfortable and trusting of your hand before he can relax and think his way out of the situation. Once he does that. he's yours. When you work on this, you want to focus on his eye and his ear. I see tons of people doing circles, but thier horse's attention is on leaving the circle. Ask for him to bend and spiral down until you see his eye actually look at you. Most of the time, you'll be seeing the white of the eye, meaning he's looking forward or out. He's not looking back at you because he doesn't have his mind on you. Release on that eyeball looking back at you and watch his whole mindset change. It's amazing how it works.

 

I don't think the use of one rein can be over-emphasized. A horse with its spine in perfect alignment is stronger than any three riders. But if you offset the head a little, it helps to shift the transmission into neutral.

Folks know my half-Clyde, Laddie. He came to me wearing a broken mouth curb with his mouth tied shut with a shoestring. He was incredibly belligerent and powerful. I did all the "sweetness and light" work with him to help him overcome his belligerence, but nothing worked until I found a bit he would not lean on and stopped his bolting dead in his tracks with one rein - at a time. And I never EVER pulled harder than he gave. Absolutely sudden release when the neck softened - until it didn't. He'd pull through anything in a calculated bolt if his spine was straight. And there was never a more incredulous horse than him when he found out he couldn't defeat lateral pressure.

 

@DanielDauphin I shall keep that in mind; that of firming up slowly. However, if my horse is ignoring, even leaning on the bit, I feel that he knows I am signaling a stop, but is ignoring me. I think it is important to add to your good advice the value of not releasing until the horse has given up leaning on the bit. In my case, I need to 'stay in there' until he actually backs off the bit. This has meant many times an actual back up.
I admit that I am the one who lacks the continued and consistent will power to keep this training up until I have achieved a better and softer connection to the bit by my heavy horse. He resents bit, and is ridden mostly in a side pull , but he has demonstrated the willingness to run right through that as well, in a dangerous manner.
His reaction to bits is more of putting his head down and leaning on it and becoming angry about it. I am capable of having very soft and connected hands if he is willing to meet that, but he usually senses rein contact coming and goes pretty straigtly into "I'm going to lean on this until you let go".

 

@DanielDauphin I think it is important to add to your good advice the value of not releasing until the horse has given up leaning on the bit. In my case, I need to 'stay in there' until he actually backs off the bit. This has meant many times an actual back up.

He resents bit, and is ridden mostly in a side pull , but he has demonstrated the willingness to run right through that as well, in a dangerous manner.
His reaction to bits is more of putting his head down and leaning on it and becoming angry about it. I am capable of having very soft and connected hands if he is willing to meet that, but he usually senses rein contact coming and goes pretty straigtly into "I'm going to lean on this until you let go".

To the first part, 100%. I guess I didn't make that clear, but do not release until they soften.

To the second part of what you've written, I hesitate to put this on a public forum, because it can be done incorrectly, BUT, that situation would benefit greatly from saddling him up, putting him bridled in a roundpen, and tying his head around. Don't walk away and leave him. Just back away 10-12 feet and ask him to move. Let him fight himself. Let him apply the pressure to himself. Let him do this without a person "up there" in his sight. Take the human component out of the equation. Just to be clear, I'm talking about doing this for 3-5 minutes each side. I'd want to gently ask him to move around. He should just be walking some small circles. You don't want him tied very shortly, something on the order of 45-60 degrees, not less or more. Maybe he gets tied left for 5 minutes, right for 5, left for 3, right for 3. etc. You don't want to bend to far to tie them, nor leave them for long. If they soften, untie them and swap sides. Stay right there a few feet away the whole time.

Done poorly or for too long, this will lead to fatigue, leaning on the bit, resentment to the bit, and a heavy horse. Done well, it can help a horse to stop trying to fight you and find the release, minus any baggage they have directed toward people.

Again, because it's the internet, do not tie a horse's head around/down/up/etc. and walk away or try to do it for very long at all (like more than 5 minutes without an untie and reset), ever. I know @tinyliny isn't a novice and already knows this, but if someone reading this would be considered a novice by an experienced trainer (not by themselves) then you are NOT ready to do this unsupervised. Going too far with this can hurt a horse. It can also dramatically help them, so be responsible.

 

I had great luck with this bit: Myler Combination 41 PB Correction Bit. I orginally purchased it for Salty during the great $1000 bit search to fix a one-eyed bucker. I didn't end up using it for him -- he prefers a simple 3 piece dog bone snaffle from Reinsman -- but Hoot is very "hard mouthed" and his previous owners stated that he would only go in a high port/spooned/squared bit. It took me a long time to find one for him, and he would work in it, but would definitely lean on the bit, run through his bit and be a bit fighty, as is his nature. The supposed benefit of the Combination Myler bits is that they place equal pressure on the curb, nose, poll and mouth at the same time, so you are not relying only on the bit to communicate. For Hoot, this has totally changed his rides. He is now stopping softly off my seat, is rating nicely and rarely even requires much bit at all (he is Western and neck rein trained). I'd search for a used one because they are expensive and might not make a difference with your horse congruent with your investment.

 

To the first part, 100%. I guess I didn't make that clear, but do not release until they soften.

To the second part of what you've written, I hesitate to put this on a public forum, because it can be done incorrectly, BUT, that situation would benefit greatly from saddling him up, putting him bridled in a roundpen, and tying his head around. Don't walk away and leave him. Just back away 10-12 feet and ask him to move. Let him fight himself. Let him apply the pressure to himself. Let him do this without a person "up there" in his sight. Take the human component out of the equation. Just to be clear, I'm talking about doing this for 3-5 minutes each side. I'd want to gently ask him to move around. He should just be walking some small circles. You don't want him tied very shortly, something on the order of 45-60 degrees, not less or more. Maybe he gets tied left for 5 minutes, right for 5, left for 3, right for 3. etc. You don't want to bend to far to tie them, nor leave them for long. If they soften, untie them and swap sides. Stay right there a few feet away the whole time.

Done poorly or for too long, this will lead to fatigue, leaning on the bit, resentment to the bit, and a heavy horse. Done well, it can help a horse to stop trying to fight you and find the release, minus any baggage they have directed toward people.

Again, because it's the internet, do not tie a horse's head around/down/up/etc. and walk away or try to do it for very long at all (like more than 5 minutes without an untie and reset), ever. I know @tinyliny isn't a novice and already knows this, but if someone reading this would be considered a novice by an experienced trainer (not by themselves) then you are NOT ready to do this unsupervised. Going too far with this can hurt a horse. It can also dramatically help them, so be responsible.

I'm just going to add something to this. Story of caution, if you will.

If you have a horse that is pretty bracey or naturally a STIFF type horse, don't forget to rule out physical problems or pain.

I had a horse that I bought as a weanling at age 6 months. He was always a stiff type horse but didn't seem to impact him. Ran 1D barrels and qualified for the AQHA world show in ranch riding - pretty talented guy. About age 9, we started having some hind end lameness issues. It took 6 months for us to come to the ultimate diagnosis that he was born with the vertebrae in his neck being crooked (both forward and sideways) and it would compress his spinal cord, as a result. The hind end lameness was just secondary to the real problem; he couldn't bend his neck.

At one point in time, I went to a barrel racing clinic (which I will never go to again) that advocated for tying horses around each side for 20-30 minutes every single day. Had I done that with him, I would have literally killed him. I know this is not the same as what you are suggesting. Ever since I had this horse with this physical problem, I personally am very, very hesitant to ever tie any horse around. I always want to have my hand on that rein so I can dynamically hold/release my rein based on what I am feeling, both in their face and their body. I agree that if a person isn't experienced enough to recognize if a horse has a physical problem, then they also shouldn't be tying a horse around.

Looking for bit suggestions for a horse who is has been happily working in a single-jointed twisted wire bit (image at the bottom). Moved horse out of Saddleseat world, starting w groundwork but think he'll be ready to ride again soon. He happily takes the below bit and is very much on the contact, sometimes even too heavy/bracing. Looking for something much gentler but have a feeling he's only every been worked in harsh bit. TIA!!
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You know, if your horse is already heavy and bracing on this ..... do you really want to go to a gentler bit right now?

You should use a bit that your horse respects. It should be a bit that you can ask him to soften and you don't have to fight or pull on him. You need to be very consistent and very fair, and always release pressure immediately when he gives you a correct response (hold steady until he gets there). That is how you teach a horse to be soft.

When they start softening up in that bit that they respect, then you can try to go to a more mild bit and see if you can replicate the same thing.

Yes, the ultimate goal would be to ride your horse around with a piece of sewing thread in their mouth. But, it is a process to get there.

 

A twisted wire bit is a harsh bit for sure. I have one that I always plan on not using. But it is an emergency bit for softening up the mouth when a horse has no response, usually caused by heavy hands. I used it on one horse for a short time as I purchased a colt that someone else had already started and he was racing him with his buddies because this horse was very fast. So when I purchased him, I had no idea he was running him, as he was two, and was going to be a real looker when he matured. I had no idea he was racing him but he did say the horse could literally fly. I asked him if he had been running him, and he said no. I thought he watched him in the pasture. So when I got on this big gelding to ride slow and easy down a field road, he breaks into a dead run and there is no stopping him, nor turning. Luckily the road was 6 miles long and he was getting winded after a few miles. He was like a runaway freight train. So dangerous as at the end of the road is a paved road with traffic. Either he would hit that paved road with his shoes and we go sliding; a car could be coming, and those thoughts were not good. He eventually got slower after a long ways and I was able to get control. Shorter road and I could have been injured or killed on that road. But once he stopped, and I tried turning him, he went straight up into a high rear, and was afraid he would fall back, but he didn't. I was glad to get him home.

Next ride was with my twisted snaffle bit. Put him in the round pen and started over with light rein pressure just to tip his head. I was retraining him to a light touch. He did great. Took him for a ride after about a week of light touch training, and I asked him to trot, and he goes into a fast lope which seemed to tell me we were about to run again.

I had to start pulling on that twisted snaffle bit and he felt it and wanted no part of the pressure and the twisted wire, so he shut it down quickly. Petted and praised him and asked him to trot again. He went to a trot, and he never once tried to run away with me again. I rode him for about a month out on the field roads just for safety, to be sure that he knew his life now was about being slow and easy. And I would stay alive.

Turned out to be my best gelding and I loved this horse. Rode him on a loose rein and he trotted so slow and easy and loped like riding in a Cadillac. Went back to my snaffle bit. I always like a snaffle bit over the western bits, but I no longer show.

 

Can I tell a story? Since Laddie was a "driving" horse, I had him out in the pasture one day, pulling me on a sled. I managed to get myself in a pickle, by not stopping at the top of the pasture and unhooking, instead of riding the sled down into the swale and starting back up hill. As soon as we started back up that hill, Laddie did a sudden, hard 90 degree turn and bolt, which threw me off the sled. I reckoned the world was about to end.

I "threw away" the right rein - let go - and hung on to the left rein with all my strength. Laddie dragged me about 20 feet by the mouth before he turned in complete shock. I regained my feet and had him circle a few times, at which point he was more than happy to stop. I unhooked him and we walked quietly back to the barn. Had I let go, he'd have probably killed himself, or beat me to death with the sled. Hanging on with both hands would never have stopped him and I surely wouldn't be here now to tell my stupid stories!

 

You definitely are in tune with horses. Great to hear how it all worked out.