# Clinton Anderson



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

and, it's worked well for you? Just out of curiousity, why ask for other opinions?


----------



## barrelracerqueen007 (Mar 2, 2021)

tinyliny said:


> and, it's worked well for you? Just out of curiousity, why ask for other opinions?


Just wondering what other people think of his method. I have herd many different opinions and I am just curious


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Ok. what have you 'heard'?


----------



## pasomountain (Dec 19, 2018)

I subscribe to his email newsletter and have gotten lots of good info from that. Also saw him in person at horse expo's. I never bought any of his training gadgets though and I don't follow him or any trainer exclusively. Just pick up good advice here and there.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I like his YouTube videos, love his new barn! He is a genius marketer! Following someone's "method" seems too cultish for me however. By the way, his method, is nothing new, he just put his own spin on it, brilliant though.


----------



## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

The few videos I've seen of him...not a huge fan, I'm more of a Warwick Schiller fan. That being said, you can learn anything from any horse trainer, good or bad. He's successful and his method works well for some horses, but like @waresbear said, it'd be narrow-minded to only try one method. The horse is the one that makes the decision on the method.


----------



## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

His method works because it forces horses into learned helplesness. Not the road I want to take with my herd... He's a bully.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

*No comment* one way or the other on any of these name recognized trainers or others...

What you have is marketing and advertising of a entity...in this case a name association to a body.
The practices they use have been around for eons of time, what changed is marketing and the internet suddenly being used to "advertise" the practice seen has made many of them recognized names in horse-households...but in essence they did not invent the practice but learned it from another...
Today's richness of video and internet easily obtained was just capitalized on by those now known by promotion, marketing strategy and advertising...flooding the market with face and practices...
*🐴.... *


----------



## autumn rain (Sep 7, 2012)

Agree with lots of the comments here that many of the well known trainers are great at marketing their products. Also true that you can learn useful things from many different sources and using what works for you and your horse.
IMO, though, the best thing about all of the media we have today is that it encourages open dialogue about training and horse welfare, all to the benefit of horses. We have come a long way in terms of what we know about how horses learn, and this has been good for us and our animals.
As for Clinton Anderson, I say watch and learn, and then use what you think is best in his methods for your purposes. We are lucky to have so much info at our fingertips!


----------



## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

Saranda said:


> His method works because it forces horses into learned helplesness. Not the road I want to take with my herd... He's a bully.


You hit the nail on the head.


----------



## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

Saranda said:


> His method works because it forces horses into learned helplesness. Not the road I want to take with my herd... He's a bully.


On the other hand, this is exactly what some horse people want. I know a couple of retired horse trainers, who trained horses to be what they called "push button" horses. They had a solid reputation. Their own horses were like machines. Yes, they did exactly as told. But their gaze was empty. They could be tied to a post all day long and they didn't move a muscle. I'm not exaggerating, they would just stand there with their heads hanging low and never notice anything. In all the years I've known them, I've never heard one of them say anything about one of their horses' personalities. Perhaps because they had none. Their horses never nickered at them, or showed any kind of affection, or even recognition. Still, there were those two occasions when one of their horses did something completely unexpected...and people got hurt.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't like him. HOWEVER...Bandit was trained by a guy training his first horse trying to use Clinton Anderson's methods. And while Bandit had some issues (for a variety of reasons), he arrived and remains convinced people do good things to and for horses. That isn't what I'd expect, but it is reality: Bandit was trained by someone trying to use CA methods and he still really likes humans. Me, my wife, the farrier, etc - just assumes humans are there to help him. Maybe Bandit is just an uncommonly tough horse?


----------



## marymane (Feb 2, 2020)

bsms said:


> I don't like him. HOWEVER...Bandit was trained by a guy training his first horse trying to use Clinton Anderson's methods. And while Bandit had some issues (for a variety of reasons), he arrived and remains convinced people do good things to and for horses. That isn't what I'd expect, but it is reality: Bandit was trained by someone trying to use CA methods and he still really likes humans. Me, my wife, the farrier, etc - just assumes humans are there to help him. Maybe Bandit is just an uncommonly tough horse?


I don't necessarily think it's the base methods that are the issue. A lot of trainers use the exact same exercises/methods/tools as CA does. The problem with CA is that he often goes WAY over threshold in training situations and pushing horses too far too fast so their only option is to shut-down to cope. He also really waters down nuanced concepts a lot so that they're easily marketable as fast solutions and that paired with his salesmanship is what has made him so successful (I think he's openly admitted that his target audience is largely beginners who feel in over their head but getting into what about him specifically attracts that demographic is another thing). It's entirely possible the person training your guy was "following" CA's method but in a much gentler manner and perhaps that's why he's not "ruined".


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I suspect a lot of horses can feel if you like them or not, and a horse who thinks you like him will respond differently. I find horses can be very forgiving of how I do things provided they believe I'm trying to do right by them.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

My mother always told me, if you can't say anything nice... so esp as Saranda & Charro have already expressed my feelings, I'll say no more.


----------



## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

I have very little direct experience with CA's methods, almost none. But I do have Ibn, a 20 year old Arabian gelding, who has been with me for 6 1/2 years. He was trained using CA's method and must've been drugged when I rode him before buying, because the minute I unloaded him off the trailer at home, he was a very anxious horse. I thought I give him a couple of days to become acclimated to his new surroundings. Two days turned into two weeks and into two months. Poor Ibn was terrified of everything and I mean EVERYTHING. His nerves were so bad his autoimmunity was affected; his fur began falling off in patches. Forget riding him. That was suicidal. My wife was terrified Ibn was going to kill me and begged me to sell him. It took me four months of gaining his trust before I thought I had a 50% chance of coming back from a ride on him. And over the next three years he kept making gradual progress. Today, I trust him with my life. It is what BSMS says about a horse being able to tell who means them no harm. To this day, he is wary of new surroundings if we go riding in a new place. And even though my wife has never done anything to him, Ibn won't take a treat from her. He'll stand there, showing no interest whatsoever. I take the treat from her hand, handed to him and he takes it immediately. I have heard that CA advises people to stay away from Arabian horses. I would say if one plans to use his methods, that may be a sound idea. My only other experience with his methods was at a demonstration where I walked out because I didn't see a need to terrorize a horse to gain "respect."


----------



## Finalcanter (Apr 15, 2013)

The horses I'm looking at buying are supposedly trained by the CA method, but loosely. All the videos I watch of this sellers training method (and videos of the horses themselves, whether out in the paddock or being ridden) seem like nothing red flag worthy. 

I cannot speak for all, but I know a lot of individuals use 'big name' training methods rather loosely, and end up mixing it with their own or other 'big name' methods. 
Personally, I would not shy away from a horse trained in a certain method. After some time, they can mold to your own method, especially if they are younger--but it is work!


----------



## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

In the end your training should revolve around the horse's individual personality. They're not cars and they don't all tick the same way. If a "trainer" conforms a horse to his method rather than the other way around, he can keep his method to himself.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hey Chie, just noticed your signature line - I giggled! Currently have a sweet, smoochy, easygoing mare... Who has turned into a 'dont even LOOK at me or you'll regret it' type now she is pregnant!


----------



## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

@loosie My mare is actually amazing and doesn't act "mareish"...she's just smart and very particular. But I thought the quote was funny! My girl is actually pretty lovey at this point, unless it's time for a bath.


----------



## Colt17 (Aug 7, 2017)

I watched some of his utube videos and even used some of his "techniques" on my horse when it was 1 to 2 years old. My horse was very aggressive, would rear and strike out at you. So at times he needed some stern handling. However, what I noticed with Clinton is that in all the utube videos, basically he would round pen the horse no matter what the horses' vice was. My horse does not round pen with me well at all. He sees me with the whip and walks towards me and attempts to eat the whip. A friend has had better luck in the round pen with my horse. Also, my friend and I have both used the bag on a stick to train. Well my horse walks up and tries to eat the bag. With these methods the horse apparently is supposed to have some inner fear of the whip or bag on a stick and respond to it. Not mine. I gave up on the round pen training and now just work with a lead line and ground work and actually riding. My horse has never bucked or bolted. I ride with only a rope halter and mostly bare back. I had herd another trainer saying chasing a horse around in a circle with a whip is silly. Well for some horses round penning may work, others no. Like others have said, look what trainers do and use what works for your horse.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Colt17 said:


> noticed with Clinton is that in all the utube videos, basically he would round pen the horse no matter what the horses' vice


Yes, he is a 'one trick pony'. I've heard him say that he handles every horse the same way. That is one of the probs I have with him. Also his aggressive 'round penning' is physically hard on a horse too, esp if it's a youngster - be aware you can do them lasting damage by 'round penning' like that.



> My horse does not round pen with me well at all. He sees me with the whip and walks towards me and attempts to eat the whip. A friend has had better luck in the round pen with my horse.


It's best to _teach_ horses how to do as you ask, rather than just try to use luck. Of course, that means you need to understand _how_ to teach them. Sounds like perhaps you've just looked at a couple of youtube vids & just tried to copy what you see without understanding, without doing any preliminary training. I'd suggest you find a trainer/instructor that can give you some hands-on lessons.


----------



## Colt17 (Aug 7, 2017)

loosie said:


> Yes, he is a 'one trick pony'. I've heard him say that he handles every horse the same way. That is one of the probs I have with him. Also his aggressive 'round penning' is physically hard on a horse too, esp if it's a youngster - be aware you can do them lasting damage by 'round penning' like that.
> 
> 
> 
> It's best to _teach_ horses how to do as you ask, rather than just try to use luck. Of course, that means you need to understand _how_ to teach them. Sounds like perhaps you've just looked at a couple of youtube vids & just tried to copy what you see without understanding, without doing any preliminary training. I'd suggest you find a trainer/instructor that can give you some hands-on lessons.


 Like I said, I looked at Clinton's vids and on all his utube vids he normally just round pens the horse and that is it, then turns the horse back over to the owner and says good luck. I never bought "the method" course, so I am sure there is more to it. Like I said, and other trainers have said, some horses do not do well with round penning, or being scared by a bag on a stick. These horses are better taken out of the ring and just ridden as in riding in real life. My horse just gets bored in the round pen and would rather be out in the real world actually doing work. By the way, my friend is also a horse trainer and has given me hands on lessons, and BTW, agrees with me, my horse gets bored easily and a bag on a stick just don't cut it. Other horses, maybe they are entertained by a bag on a stick. Also, I have been working with horses for 50 years, and everyone has a different personality and requires different training methods, and time length of training. They key is to find out what type of training your horse works best with.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Let me start out by saying I have never bought any of Clinton Anderson's training videos or whatever. So I can say I have never followed his "method." BUT, when I was training my first-ever foal, about 10 years ago, I got a lot of help from friends, including a friend who was a big Clinton Anderson believer. What ended up happening is that I had a horse that knew what I wanted but had no faith or trust in me. And I had no faith or trust in him. And I loved him to death........but our relationship was essentially ruined.

He was a nippy, playful colt (gelding) and everyone was like, "he doesn't respect you." If you have to keep correcting him (for nipping in play), you haven't corrected him hard enough! The poor colt got the dressage whip used on him so much just to try to keep him out of my space to "respect" me. Training was a nightmare for me. We eventually progressed to riding and he was very laid back, except when something would scare him and he would spook and spin right out from under me. He had no faith in me to keep him safe. And I had no faith in him not to spook. I eventually gave him to a neighbor and they get along famously. So I am thankful for that. But I really think the "respect" based training ruined our relationship. Maybe we never would have had a good relationship anyway. But he's a pretty relaxed horse and I loved him and tried to make it work for about 8 years. It SHOULD have worked. But my nerves were shot after 8 years of trying to be dominant in the relationship. 

Never again do I want to be a trainer. Give me a somewhat broke horse and I will happily teach it little things like sidepassing and such. But I just can't bring a horse up from scratch. It was hell. I really think looking at every little thing the horse did as disrespect doomed us to failure.

PS. He was the best round-penning horse I've ever had......voice controlled transitions and everything. Now I don't want a horse I ever have to round pen before rides!


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

trailhorserider said:


> But I really think the "respect" based training ruined our relationship. .... I really think looking at every little thing the horse did as disrespect doomed us to failure.


Yeah, perspectives... I've said here many times before, that 'respect' is one of those terms that REALLY grates on me, because for one, in the manner people generally seem to use the words, saying a horse is 'disrespectful' just means the horse is doing things you don't want, so it's a 'duh diagnosis', not helpful to understand/fix WHY the horse is 'disobedient', AND it implies that the horse is being deliberately 'naughty' & 'testy' & deserving of punishment.

When people go on about the horse must 'respect' you, or they're being 'disrespectful', they're meaning the horse is not 'obedient' in whatever way, they're not subservient, docile to the handler's domineering. That is NOT 'respect' IMO. To 'make' a horse 'respect' you, in someone like CA's eyes, it is to make them fearful of consequences & handler enough to be shut down emotionally. He says himself 'The more you frighten them, the quieter they get' as if that's a good thing. That is FAR from 'respect' in my perception, it is, in behavioural terms, called 'learned helplessness'.

Real respect, in my way of thinking is a '2 way street' - it necessarily includes you understanding & being respectFUL to the horse. 'Respect' cannot be forced & a domineering attitude/approach, in my perception, will only reduce/destroy any respect the horse may have been developing. The horse needs to understand he can trust you to look out for him, that he can trust you to be considerate of his feelings. The horse wants to be with you. When you have those things, THEN you can start to EARN some real 'respect' FROM them.

The other thing that grates on me is the 'work the horse' as punishment. The concept of 'lunging for respect' of 'move the horse's feet whenever he 'disrespects', of backing the horse all over the shop, making him do umpteen circles, yields, whatever. Not only is doing something else, which may well even be total opposite of what you want(the horse won't stand still so you make him do a few circles for eg) just delaying & interrupting actually teaching whatever you want, in many instances, but in making 'work' unpleasant, a punishment, you're destroying the chance for your horse to actually enjoy your 'games', enjoy being with you, doing what you're asking - it all becomes a chore & the horse's 'choice' becomes only 'pick the lesser evil'.


----------



## JennS (May 12, 2021)

Honestly I've never seen a trainer where I liked everything they did. Ha but I'm the girl that does almost everything training halter free in the middle of the pasture. So I take how they do something and see how it works with my method. Oddly my horses follow me almost anywhere waiting to see if we're doing something interesting.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

I’ve met a few folks who claim to use the Clinton Anderson methods on their horses. Only two of them would actually ride their horses. The usual explanation for not riding was “my horse isn’t ready for it yet”.

One of the folks who did ride, was an experienced horseman who had been bucked off and suffered fractured vertebrae from it. He attended some clinics and met Anderson at his ranch. The horse eventually became a trusted cavalry mount at re-enactments.

The other person blended Anderson’s methods with those of an Australian trainer. I forget the name of that guy. She had one of those carrot sticks. It looked like an orange buggy whip to me.

She demonstrated to me how she used the carrot stick to stop her horse from cow kicking whenever she tried to handle the rear feet, or touch the flanks and such.

Essentially, she used the carrot stick to touch the rear end from a safe distance. Whenever the horse offered to kick, she gave it a firm poke or shove with the stick. It worked for her. She was able to handle all 4 feet, and touch her horse anywhere she wanted with no drama. 

her method with the carrot stick was somewhat similar to the way I use an old saddle blanket or oversized shirt for sacking out a horse.

I think the difference was that the two who rode their horses were experienced, and had the solid goal of producing a usable horse


----------



## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> I’ve met a few folks who claim to use the Clinton Anderson methods on their horses. Only two of them would actually ride their horses. The usual explanation for not riding was “my horse isn’t ready for it yet”.
> 
> One of the folks who did ride, was an experienced horseman who had been bucked off and suffered fractured vertebrae from it. He attended some clinics and met Anderson at his ranch. The horse eventually became a trusted cavalry mount at re-enactments.
> 
> ...


I would've handle the horse's legs gradually, starting with merely laying my hand on his leg up high and gradually working my way down. My first two horses were from the BLM and at 71 I'm still riding Arabians. For me, I'm looking for more than a usable horse; I'm looking for a trusted trail partner. I'm looking for a horse that looks at me as if I were its dam. At my age, I can't afford to get bucked off.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

charrorider said:


> I would've handle the horse's legs gradually, starting with merely laying my hand on his leg up high and gradually working my way down. My first two horses were from the BLM and at 71 I'm still riding Arabians. For me, I'm looking for more than a usable horse; I'm looking for a trusted trail partner. I'm looking for a horse that looks at me as if I were its dam. At my age, I can't afford to get bucked off.


Apparently, this horse struck out whenever she got near the hindquarters. The carrot stick gave her a buffer zone of safety until she could do the same with her hands.

I haven’t used that technique. Just tucked it away as a useful strategy in my tool box.

I didn’t trust the little outlaw I have now while handling her rear hooves. I used a scotch hobble for cleaning and trimming. Gradually, she came to trust that I wouldn’t hurt her during the process. I can now handle all 4 feet normally without drama.


----------



## Liko (Sep 28, 2021)

Saranda said:


> His method works because it forces horses into learned helplesness. Not the road I want to take with my herd... He's a bully.


This is my general sense of his method as well. Very forceful, very "I really don't care about this animal's feelings, it will do what I want because I'm the human". The techniques are sound, and nothing new; pressure/release, instant correction, disobedience means work. But the fundamental mentality is wrong; you're not using the techniques to instill respect for you in your horse as "herd boss", you're using them to give your horses Stockholm Syndrome. Instead of the horses looking to you (and humans in general) as being in charge, they see you as a dangerous enemy they can't run from or fight.

Distinction without a difference? Maybe. _Until_ that horse "forgets", even for just a moment, that he's _not_ helpless, that he weighs 1200 pounds and has eight _tons_ of force bound up in his _weaker_ two legs. Then you get kicked into next month, and the horse learns he has power against you and you're not so scary. Now you're back to square one, except the horse has really good reason not to like you.


----------



## Berralracer72 (Oct 25, 2021)

I am a new trainer and i fully support his method! I used his method two train my own horses!


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I used to belong to the CA club. I actually found it to be really useful information. The thing I have learned is that not everyone learns or understands a specific method. I was a hunter/jumper rider in my youth and so I never learned the ground methods at all. When I ended up with a horse that dominated me on the ground and needed help - I asked questions on this forum and usually got the old "Get a trainer" response. I got a trainer but to them, the ground stuff was basic common knowledge but it wasn't to me.

I have learned from John and Josh Lyons methods, Clinton Anderson, Parelli (more the wife because she is sloppier and I could actually SEE what she was trying to do) and from local trainers. I am still not a "pro" on the ground but I am confident and in control. That is because of all of these methods, call them what you will but it's really about UNDERSTSANDING. If you don't understand what they are teaching - you don't get it. Sometimes you can hear the exact same thing 10 different ways and only one of the explanations makes sense....


----------



## HotShod (Dec 18, 2021)

Named methods and trainers is such a wild concept to me. I like and respect horsemen like Buck Brannaman and Carson James, for example, but know there’s a certain amount of soul selling they have to do in order to appeal to the masses and remain somewhat relevant.

Clinton Anderson does an _amazing_ job of marketing himself. I can’t speak to him as a horseman too much, simply because I don’t seek his content. But, I know his name, and that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it? 

Whoever you follow or learn from, I think we all agree it’s important to stay open minded and aware. I was taught by a select few horsemen and told “this is the way” basically. I’m only beginning to crawl out of my shell and experience new things. Although I don’t agree with everything, it is continuously teaching me more about the horse, as well as the hobbyist / business side of the industry.

I will say, as a farrier, I have an easier time working with owners who believe in discipline than those who think good vibes and telepathy will get them where they need to be. I’d rather tell an owner that I’m okay or can handle the horse quietly, than have to quit the blundering fool who coo’s at their horse to calm them as they’re actively trying to rip out my liver.


----------

