# Some really cool videos



## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Don't know if these were posted before..


This first one, please disregaurd the bull. I am not condoning bull fighting, but watch the horse. Talk about incredible movement.

Merlin:




 

Invasor:




 
I have no idea how to post videos but when I find out I will edit this..


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

i think bull fighting would be the coolest sport if only it was a lot safer for the hrose and the bull never ot hurt. lol maybe we could try kitten fighting and we could tie a toy mouse to a string that is tied to the horses tail!!!! lol, but i just adore the movements and ease in the movements they do.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I would move my *** pretty quick and agile too is I had a half dead enraged bull wanting to kill me, lol.... I must say not trying to be a downer or anything, but usually those horses are trained very harshly to get that level of obedience, so where as it looks pretty, just think of what the horses go through to achieve that...


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

yes, they do train some hroses harshly to get that. but they also train some hroses harshly in jumping,anddressage, and reining, and any other sport with animals in it. there are also people that train them with paitence to


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

No, they don't with Merlin. And if you watch his ears and eyes he is clearly not afraid in the slightest bit. The sideways ears say concentration, not fear.

This is a different video with bits of training in it:





 
Not exactly harmful or harsh, IMO.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

HAHAHAHAHA thats hilarious that they chase the horse with a wheelbarrel bull. lol i always wondered how they trained them.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I didn't say they train em all like thta, just most. Merlin looks like a truly fantastic animal.


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## BoarderCowgirl12 (Dec 30, 2009)

He is fantastic! I just hate to think what happens to the bull afterward . And Merlin would make an exelent cutting horse!!
In the second video That horse looks scrunched up.


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## Dreamer1215 (Jan 31, 2009)

_If it weren't for the brutality of the bull fighting, I'd like a go on Merlin! _

_I've always appreciated the agility and the "dance-like" qualities of bull-fighting, I just can't get past the killing of a bull. The training of Merlin is amazing, and there is a trust there between rider & Merlin..._


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

I don't see what is wrong with killing the bull? I mean, 99.999999% of cattle get killed anyway!

I love Merlin, he is an amazing animal!


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## Domino13011 (Aug 10, 2009)

I think its the fact of how they get killed. Wow thoes videos are just..wow..amazing..haha


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I don't see what is wrong with killing the bull? I mean, 99.999999% of cattle get killed anyway!
> 
> I love Merlin, he is an amazing animal!


yes but those cattle are quickly killed, did you see those spikes/hooks in the bulls shouldertip, if you noticed blood was running down the font of the bull.
the pretty much abuse the bull, then inhumanly kill him in the end. not a fun sport. but the hroses are absalutely amazing!


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## veganchick (Mar 4, 2009)

Merlin is magnificant, but I actually cried when that guy stabbed the bull. I just can't stand animals being harmed.....


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## CuriousFT (Dec 8, 2009)

So while everyone here is worried about the dangers of bull fighting to the bull I would just like to remind you all that the horse is in danger as well. Yes, this Merlin horse is clearly well trained, but it doesnt change the fact that he is still in a large amount of danger. Everyone can argue that all riding disciplines come with their certain risks, but if you dont mind I'm going to show a few pictures of my mustang, Denny, who used to be a bull fighting pony. Notice the hole in his side where he was nailed.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I never said it wasn't dangerous, just that the horse is in no way afraid for his life.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

A truly magnificent horse. 

CAREFUL, graphic videos

Sadly, it is quite common for the horses belonging to the Picadors to be gored by the bull. They are, on many occasions, disemboweled right in front of that same crowd screaming for the bulls blood. I could never watch a working picador horse for fear of witnessing such a thing.

Listen to the crowds clap as this padded picador horse is being gored





Many of the poorer trained horses are worked blindfolded so they won't see what's coming






Praise the noble horse. Curse the ignoble trainers who produce them. IMO!!

Merlins owner may just consider HIS loss as collateral damage when, or if, he gets too slow to dodge.


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## CuriousFT (Dec 8, 2009)

Allison:thank you for posting these videos, they are very graphic, but very true.

I did not mean to make my post sound so harsh. I just want everyone (both inside and outside this forum) aware of the brutalities of bull fighting to horse, bull, and human I like. It makes me sick to know that Denny had to suffer through this before coming to us and even sicker to know that other wonderful horses are enduring the same thing.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

As I said, I would move my *** pretty agile and quick like if I was trying to avoid a 2000lb bull chasing me too. 

There is nothing beautiful about bull fighting, it is from a barbaric culture, and if you disagree with me just listen to the crowds bloodlust screams as they actually kill one of the bulls at the end of the torturous "fight", nothing civil about it. This from a culture that idolizes these people, the same culture that makes sport of "steer tripping", "horse fighting", dog fighting, and cock fighting. None of these are frowned upon in Mexico or Spain(where it all originated), they are national pastimes. Says a lot about a culture when torture is a national pastime.

Nothing beautiful can come out of something so cruel. You may say he does not look like he fears for his life, I disagree, or he would simply stand there and let the bull gore him to death. Must be niced to be so "well trained" to run for dear life.

And I mean my post as harsh as it sounds. This is my opinion on the videos you posted.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Maybe you should pay attention to his ears and eyes. If he was scared, his ears would be laid back. They are sideways, in concentration. You would be able to see the white of his eyes. His eyes are calm. And maybe watch his training video. And like I said, I am in no way condoning bull fighting, I think it's awful. The horse performs those movements ON HIS OWN in a field in the training video.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

He'll perform them until the day he is too slow, and then.....


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## CuriousFT (Dec 8, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> He'll perform them until the day he is too slow, and then.....


Agreed, he may be well trained, but animals are unpredictable. He can become distracted, he can suddenly spook, the bull may do something that he (or the rider) is not anticipating. ANYTHING can happen. No one is saying that you are condoning bull fighting, we are just trying to say that this horse IS in serious danger and he CAN get severely injured or killed.


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## HorseGurl27 (Oct 13, 2009)

Wow that horse is amazing doing the bull fighting! I just don't like bull fighting though I don't think the bull should be tortured like that. Even if it "wins" they still kill him. :-(


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Bullfighting might be cruel, but without it and war we wouldn't have dressage.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> Bullfighting might be cruel, but without it and war we wouldn't have dressage.


actually, dressage wasnt really influesnced by bullfighting. just war, without bull fighting dressage would still be where it is today, with maybe a tinge of difference.


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## veganchick (Mar 4, 2009)

I only wish that merlin and the other bullfighting horses could be used for dressage. They would excel, I am sure.... instead they get to go kill bulls or be killed....


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Restarting this thread. I found another video of this "fantastic trainer" riding another of his wonderful horses. It shows what happens to even the best trained horses


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

jesus that is vicious how could anyone with any kind of maral backbone or decency enjoy watching tha kind of thing??


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Y'know, some cultures could say the same thing about eventing. :-|


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

The issue of whether Merlin's scared in the arena: every horse but a crazy one'd be scared in that situation; the difference is that Merlin's training kicks in, the training becomes habit, the breeding is for tractability/docility, he has a leader in the arena--his rider--whom he's therefore trusting to keep him safe, etc. Poor horses!


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## BrewCrew (May 12, 2010)

WOW. Amazing and beautiful horse! Merlin's video left me speechless. Imagine how many HOURS have been dedicated to training!!! And he's good-looking on top of it!


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## LoveStory10 (Oct 31, 2009)

That poor bay! I dont like bull fighting, but its peoples choices... so anyway. At least they tried their hardest to get the bull away


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Y'know, some cultures could say the same thing about eventing. :-|


Wow, that is really pushing it to make that comparison. The last thing I remember.....jumps don't attack and seek to gore and disembowel the horse jumping it. The rider does not purposely put it into the path of disaster where one misstep almost guarantees serious injury or death.

In my experience, which is extensive, serious injuries in eventing are relatively rare.


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## LeosAmericanShadow (Sep 5, 2009)

Merlin is absolutely gorgeous, and has amazing movement! he looks like hes having fun!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> The rider does not purposely put it into the path of disaster where one misstep almost guarantees serious injury or death.


No? That's almost the very definition of eventing. An eventer doesn't expect nor want his horse to get hurt anymore then a matador does. But things DO happen, we KNOW they will happen, and we know the colossal risk of both injury and death we partake in for either sport.

Any way you hash it, you are using the horse for only your own entertainment and at great risk to his health or well being. It doesn't have to JUST be eventing, but I DO find it amusing that people think it's ok to hurtle a horse at a 4'0" jump made of solid logs that is going to result in a "disaster" if he takes one misstep. We have dozens of videos on YouTube DEDICATED to capturing the brilliant crashes that happen on a cross country course. So it's perfectly acceptable to get your kicks off watching horses crash into solid objects, but somehow sick watching Merlin? :-|


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## LeosAmericanShadow (Sep 5, 2009)

btw macabremikolaj, your avatar is AMAZING! haha


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

MM, your post #34 is a fair assessment of the topic, imo.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> No? That's almost the very definition of eventing. An eventer doesn't expect nor want his horse to get hurt anymore then a matador does. But things DO happen, we KNOW they will happen, and we know the colossal risk of both injury and death we partake in for either sport.
> 
> *I will not deny that accidents happen. Maybe I have been blessed to have not had any serious injury to any horse I have evented. I cannot say the same for myself. I have had more horses seriously injured playing in turnout than in competing. Using your criteria, I guess turning horses out in a pasture is undue abuse? Hmmmm.....*
> 
> ...


It is obvious you have a particular bone to pick with eventers. That's fine.....BUT, to compare it to thrusting a well trained horse into the path of a crafty animal whose only desire is to rip and kill, is a poor comparison.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Asking a horse to jump the dangerous CC jumps is obviously much riskier than turning a horse out to pasture; you say, AF, that it's more dangerous to turn out a horse? Plus, "thrusting a ...horse into the path of a crafty animal whose only desire is to rip & kill..."; makes it sound as though the rider's deliberately trying to harm the horse via the bull. Plus, do you aver that some horses will voluntarily, sans rider, jump oxers, water jumps, in&out's, hill jumps, etc.? Plus, I find no justification for your saying that MM "has a particular bone to pick with eventers...". In your view, does anyone who points out the risks of CC have a bone to pick?


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> It is obvious you have a particular bone to pick with eventers. That's fine.....BUT, to compare it to thrusting a well trained horse into the path of a crafty animal whose only desire is to rip and kill, is a poor comparison.


I honestly don't, I could just as easily pick racing or show jumping. Cross country just tends to be right at the top as one of the most dangerous recognized sports for horses, especially at upper levels so it seemed the best for comparison. It has, by far, the most spectacular "disasters" as is blatant from the myriads of videos dedicated to them.

Like it or not, you're still putting your horse in immense risk to be severely hurt when you're galloping him at a solid timber fence as tall as he is - that's just basic logic and I don't see how you need to be an enemy of eventing to see that. I really do not see any difference whatsoever. In both sports, one wrong step can mean severe injury or death. In both sports, the rider is encouraging the horse to do something unnatural to him. In both sports, we are risking the necks of our mounts only for our own personal sense of triumph, gain and entertainment. 

I'm trying to see past the bull itself and just focus on the role of the horse.


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I honestly don't, I could just as easily pick racing or show jumping. Cross country just tends to be right at the top as one of the most dangerous recognized sports for horses, especially at upper levels so it seemed the best for comparison. It has, by far, the most spectacular "disasters" as is blatant from the myriads of videos dedicated to them.
> 
> Like it or not, you're still putting your horse in immense risk to be severely hurt when you're galloping him at a solid timber fence as tall as he is - that's just basic logic and I don't see how you need to be an enemy of eventing to see that. I really do not see any difference whatsoever. In both sports, one wrong step can mean severe injury or death. In both sports, the rider is encouraging the horse to do something unnatural to him. In both sports, we are risking the necks of our mounts only for our own personal sense of triumph, gain and entertainment.
> 
> I'm trying to see past the bull itself and just focus on the role of the horse.




Hmm...you know, for once, I actually agree with you.

I can't seem to figure out why we think it is ok to send two year old, still forming horse bodies at full speed down a race track and launching our horses 4+feet, but we think that any other sport involving horses is abuse at its finest. 

So there is a chance that the bull could horn the horse. So what? There is a chance that your eventer could miss a step, go head first and die. Or a chance that my barrel horse could twist a knee bad enough going around a barrel to end up lame. Or a chance that a young, two year old filly on her very first race could break her leg and have to be put down.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Northern said:


> Asking a horse to jump the dangerous CC jumps is obviously much riskier than turning a horse out to pasture; you say, AF, that it's more dangerous to turn out a horse?
> 
> *That's what I'm saying.
> I have had one horse break a leg, a horse killed by a lightening strike, a horse bow a tendon, a horse caught in a fence, a horse caught in a gate, and numerous other minor to moderate injuries with horses turned out in pastures.
> ...


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## BubblesBlue (Jun 29, 2010)

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I don't see what is wrong with killing the bull? I mean, 99.999999% of cattle get killed anyway!


No offense but I disagree with that a lot. For one, I do live on a ranch with cattle. Its not like we send off all of our cattle to the slaughter house. :-|

And as for Merlin: He is an amazing horse! He would be so fun to cut on. His movements are pure poetry. :lol:


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