# Competition Rant



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Very well behaved horses huh? NOT!


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## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

Sorry to disagree with you, but the riders have every right to ask you to move. 

You try telling a prey animal that a weird looking box thing on wheels that makes strange noises isn't going to eat you.


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

It wasn't making a noise and if they don't want prams and other "strange objects" around the horses why make it open to admission?? 

No they don't have any right to tell me to "go someplace else" The only reason I did go is because I did not want to see someone injured over it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

Did you pay an admission fee? If you did I would guarantee it wouldn't have been even close to what the competitors had to pay for the privilege to compete.

If I am going to pay a ridiculous amount of money to compete, I would expect to be able to ask a person to move if they had positioned themselves in such a way that made it unsafe, for whatever reason, for me or my horse to proceed with my test, then **** straight I will be asking that person to move.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Anything can be just beyond the distance that surrounds the distance suggested by the rules. Usually that is 10m...rarely more. 

The entire point of a schooling show is that the horse/rider learns to cope with show ring situations. As long as the child is not screaming/etc. I think this was silly to ask more. A 100'+....really???


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

They should learn to control their horses and spend more time outside an arena so the horse doesn't freak out. I mean this isnt some pony club show it's a dressage competition where they are displaying their ability to control their horse..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Baby was asleep for once, there was no noise. If she was crying I would have left myself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

Even the best trained horses can get a fright. They are a prey animal, and have a mind of their own. No matter how much training we put into them, things can, and will go wrong. 

My dressage horse spends plenty of time out of the arena. She even chases cows. Just because a horse is scared of a pram doesn't make it poorly trained.


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## horsecv (Jan 21, 2014)

Wait, what the heck is a pram?

I googled it and it says that it is a baby carriage. but it doesnt sound like the original poster is talking about a baby carriage here. -reread i guess it is a baby carriage.


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Asked to move 3 times and then told to leave cause these horses couldn't handle a pram. 35 metres away??? One horse sure, but really...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

horsecv said:


> Wait, what the heck is a pram?
> 
> I googled it and it says that it is a baby carriage. but it doesnt sound like the original poster is talking about a baby carriage here. -reread i guess it is a baby carriage.


lol had to google baby carriage. Yes that is a Pram in NZ lingo 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

lol, I took my yearling to the worlds and she had to deal with baby carriages, bicycles, kids on scooters, loose dogs, camera flashes (during her performance), and god forbid a grandstand full of people and children! And I paid big money to be there!

I don't even think twice about it. The only thing I had a problem with was the small child who tried to run up her back legs. 

Sorry, you can't shield your horse from everything in the world. God forbid there's a trash can next to the ring. I've even seen people's horses spook at the judges in their chairs. Then what do we do?!? lol


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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

pram (British or in this case New Zealand term) = Stroller (American) lol

I agree with the OP that sounds pretty ridiculous... unless the stroller had flags and streamers and sirens coming out of it! 

I haven't been to a dressage show recently but at a few shows and rodeos I have been to there are fold up chairs, banners, flags, coolers, ATVs etc etc all around the ring/ arena and no one asks any one else to move. 

I understand the point about the competitors paying more and wanting to have a clean run but part of training in any discipline is desensitizing your horse to distractions. In my opinion a quiet baby in a carriage shouldn't be that big of a deal.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Liligirl said:


> They should learn to control their horses and spend more time outside an arena so the horse doesn't freak out. I mean this isnt some pony club show it's a dressage competition where they are displaying their ability to control their horse..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This annoys me more than anything else about show horses and show riders. They ride roundy round in the arena and never get exposed to life in the real world. If my horses don't have enough brain and spine to handle being at a show AND being ridden out on trail or on the street or wherever else I please to go, they don't stay long. My horse would not spook at a baby carriage (pram) for more than a minute before we'd work on that real quick. Unreal.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I would LOVE it if I could request that every scary thing near the arena be moved. we have runners come dodging out of the woods and such. And I get worried about it, but I'm a worrywort rider. most folks just deal with it. no one would even think to ask a spectator to move further away.


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

That's disappointing. At the "AA" hunter/jumper shows you have to ride by strollers, golf carts, dogs, unattended screaming children, horse trailers, bikes, atvs, etc... I have never once seen/heard of even a Grand Prix rider asking someone to move a stroller. Unless it's a baby green/green as grass class, the horse/rider had better be able to handle it.


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

Also, I competed in a jumper derby a few years back. There were tents all around the arena where we started that were flapping in the wind. My horse just had to get over it, as did all the other competitors horses.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Try showing your horse at fairgrounds when there is ferris wheels, midway rides, kids, strollers, motorcycles, you name it. Your horse ignores it after awhile and does his job.


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

I have been to a couple of show jumping competitions and the horses didn't seem to have a problem with the pram. I think that is why I was so surprised and annoyed because I just didn't expect there to be a problem this time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

If I saw other horses spooking at an object I would try to get my horse next to it to check it out before my ride.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

What a ridiculous situation! I've asked somebody to move a little just once, and it was a lady with a huge, bright pink umbrella, which she was repeatedly opening and closing while sitting near a shady corner of the arena - and it was a kiddy show! (I was helping out) - but a seasoned dressage horse and rider pairing should KNOW how to handle something as simple as a pram. If the rider cannot do that, well then - bad for them, should put more training in their horses, not just expect them to behave.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Have to agree with the OP-a bit ridiculous. And, just an observation-at every show I have ever been to there are numerous opportunities for "bomb proofing"…..except the dressage ones. Just an observation. Isn't the horse supposed to be paying attention to the RIDER? Shoot at most shows there are folks right at the rail, hands hanging over holding almost anything….and judges with umbrellas for shade.

Makes me so grateful for my horse-who can go into a coliseum without ever seeing it before, with people, announcers and everything in between…..and NEVER bat an eye. I used to be one of those up tight avoid everything possible types…..but realized it was silly, since no matter how you try-there will always be something unseen (or imaginary)that bugs the horse if you are looking for it. But-if you go around and just do your job……things are usually fine. Trouble will come if you look for it.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

To an extent, I completely agree with the riders and judges asking you to move. 
Not every horse gets exposure to a pram, and some horses are extremely reactive. 
Try riding a hot, fresh and very green 3 year old warmblood that is shaking in its boots at it's first competition. We pay A LOT of money to enter an official competition, and yes, if there is someone near the arena and my horse is anxious about them, I will sure as heck as them to move. The competition arena is not the time and place for desensitising horses. 

And no, it doesn't mean a rider can't control their horse or never gets it out of an arena, Dressage is an incredibly precise discipline, and a little tension and distraction from the horse can mean the different between 1st and 6th placings.

I always try to take my young or green horses out a few times in a competition environment without actually entering, to give the horse some exposure. I also ride out on trails regularly, partake in clinics, group lessons with beginner riders to expose my horses to horses going left right and centre with no respect to 'arena rules' etc. 
But sometimes, your horse may be on edge already and it is one little thing that sets them off. If its a pram and you're about to enter the arena, you're going to tell people to move.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

And to think that when I arrived at the racing yard I work at, the trainer took the pram and wheeled it in to the colt barn and down to the gallops while we walked and talked - yep they looked but they darn well had to deal with it. Ever been to a TB yearling sale? There are prams galore. The horses just have to deal with it. 

Liligirl - It can be a PITA being a parent in the horse world. It really can. Those who whine rarely have had the luxury of dealing with life after baby. All of us parents have been there - I was at one 3 day event and told to take my baby home because it was "too hot" and no place for a child.... I was sitting in the shade by a water jump, the child was smothered in sunscreen, a hat and a small umbrella over the buggy. Ignorance. Put ignorance. I won't tell you my response.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

We do a driving event at a VERY large facility, EVERY YEAR. We have been there with almost every other breed show, and the dressage riders are the ONLY ones who have had a problem. We are ON THE ROAD, they are in the WARM-UP arena (not competition arena), and they are crying foul because we are scaring their horses. 

Sorry you could not enjoy your outing with the baby.


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

You must be better people than I am..... I would have moved ONCE. My wifes barrel horses run indoors and outdoors with kids on bikes, golf carts squirrel *** kids on scooters, running around screaming and chasing, and these horses perform. You go to almost any show and there are things there that will freak a horse out. I guarantee if you horse cant handle a baby stroller OUTSIDE the arena, you need to go back to the drawing board. Wow.....


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Kayty said:


> To an extent, I completely agree with the riders and judges asking you to move.
> Not every horse gets exposure to a pram, and some horses are extremely reactive.
> Try riding a hot, fresh and very green 3 year old warmblood that is shaking in its boots at it's first competition. We pay A LOT of money to enter an official competition, and yes, if there is someone near the arena and my horse is anxious about them, I will sure as heck as them to move. The competition arena is not the time and place for desensitising horses.
> 
> ...


And the discrimination continues LOL.
I agree with Kayty. Number one, these are not quarter horses and number two this is not a barrel race. Apples and oranges.
I was at a competition last weekend on a very spooky, hot horse and it is not fun to be on something you have to get through a test on that you know is going to be flying sideways at least once during the ride. There are also rules about how far from the ring spectators must be. Were there not stands and designated spectator areas? 

Yes, I hack and desensitize my horses but it does not change the fact that they are hot, high powered athletes and asking the young ones to focus in a new place with scary things is very difficult on the particularly spooky ones. I would suggest to you next time to go to a designated spectator area and watch from there. Although it sucks you had a bad day, the show was not put on specifically for you and your enjoyment. When you pay for tickets to an event and are in a designated area - then you have grounds to complain, JMO.

If you want I can put you on the hot kid and you can see how much you want to ride around a pram LOL this stands for everyone - I have photos of this horse 6' off the ground  And that's after desensitizing.


I also enjoy how in the dog thread I'm the only person who has ridden lots with playing dogs in the indoor arena - at home I desensitize so much! At a competition is not the place. My horse could spook away from the pram into you and your child or another person. It is not a controlled environment and not a safe place to be doing desensitizing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

My favorite show was held at my trainer's barn...she rode around ALL day runnning scores, drinks, etc. on her bicycle, complete with stuff strapped on the back and many times a dog in the basket.

Yes, recognized dressage shows.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its symptomatic of the horse riding society that never take them outside of an indoor arena or manege I'm afraid
Yes we should get our horses used to everything and prepare them for the buzz of a showground but too many people don't do that - and a lot of these horses that spend all their time in stables really don't get anything like enough exercise so they're over fresh to start with (Something that was recently lamented by some top UK dressage riders in a magazine so not just my opinion)
I'm inclined to think that the OP was asked to move the pram in case some horse spooked badly at it and caused an accident so they were covering their own backs so to speak in case they got sued by a competitor or injured spectator 
Just because horses should be used to stuff like that doesn't mean they all are and a horse that freaks out and bolts out of the arena (that possibly had no barriers around it) into a crowd is going to cause a lot of damage


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## ChristineNJ (Jan 23, 2010)

Agree! Baby should be outa there!!! My horse got scared of a bicycle once & freaked out. Hard telling what will scare a horse. Better safe than sorry!!


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I agree that it was ridiculous. I ride lots of very hot horses, retraining thoroughbreds off the track. My BO was just riding her two year old past busses with school children yelling, bicycles, barking dogs, etc, and he's a race horse, I don't think you can get a hotter breed or occupation. asking you to move once is understandable, but what you went through is ridiculous.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Personally, I think it's a bit rude. 

I would never dream of asking someone to move while I compete. I should be prepared for anything... If I'm not, then it's just not my day to place. There will always be another show.

A barn where I boarded Gator had stands where people could audit lessons/rides/clinics etcetera at the outdoor arena. I was riding one day, and a woman was sitting on the stands. It was a chilly day, and she had a pink blanket. Apparently she couldn't get comfortable, as she kept standing and fiddling with the blanket, even shaking it out.
Gator had a FIT. He was terrified of the thing. He gave a nice spook and spin at top speed--somehow I managed to keep my seat xD This happened three times (each time I passed her) before she asked if she was scaring him, and should she move. I told her no, that she was fine and Gator was just being silly. I thought it would be rude to make such a request.

Piggybacking off of that, I took my three year old filly to a rather large 4H show a couple years ago. This was her first show, and I had planned to just take her for exposure and not enter. 
She did so well, and I had brought my clothes just in case, that I ended up entering her in a simple walk-trot class. The judge requested that everyone in the stands be quiet, as she was a baby and still figuring everything out. I didn't request it. If the judge/announcer chooses to ask someone to move then fine. It's their show. But I certainly wouldn't.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

BlueSpark said:


> I agree that it was ridiculous. I ride lots of very hot horses, retraining thoroughbreds off the track. My BO was just riding her two year old past busses with school children yelling, bicycles, barking dogs, etc, and he's a race horse, I don't think you can get a hotter breed or occupation. asking you to move once is understandable, but what you went through is ridiculous.


TBs are kittens compared to many, many WBs. I have lots of students on OTTBs and I would consider most of them to be deadheads. There are one or two who will get excited, but are very easy to control and manage.

Competitions are NOT the place to be desensitizing a horse. There are far too many folks around who are at a very high risk for injury.
Spectators should remain in designated areas. There are rules for spectators for a reason - horses are dangerous.

OP is lucky she did not spook a horse who then ran over her and her child


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Some of these comments are quite funny, you would think I had been standing right at the entrance to the arena waving a big red flag. Also on those that say I was lucky that I didn't spoke a horse into me as baby, at 20 meters. If one of my horses spooked and ran into me with 20 meters between us id say that was deliberate and they needed work fast.

I was standing 20 meters away in the correct place. With the other spectators... Well actually there weren't any, as no one goes to dressage competitions anymore here. I can see why now though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Sheesh, you don't have to talk me out of a warmblood xD


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

oh vair oh said:


> Sheesh, you don't have to talk me out of a warmblood xD


And you couldn't talk me out of one. I love the nutters but they take patience and a bit of nerve hahaha.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

In my experience with WBs they have been calm and laid back. And that's talking about GP jumpers and dressage horses. 

Although I would never fathom asking someone to move because they were spooking my horse, I would deal with it. Sounds like a pretty big hole in their training. 

Perhaps the people complaining should stop putting their focus and money into winning and showing, and more into creating a horse that doesn't go nuts at the sight of a stroller.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Kayty said:


> To an extent, I completely agree with the riders and judges asking you to move.
> Not every horse gets exposure to a pram, and some horses are extremely reactive.
> Try riding a hot, fresh and very green 3 year old warmblood that is shaking in its boots at it's first competition. We pay A LOT of money to enter an official competition, and yes, if there is someone near the arena and my horse is anxious about them, I will sure as heck as them to move. The competition arena is not the time and place for desensitising horses.
> 
> ...


I realize that Anebel and you think we all pick on the dressage folks, but just listen to yourselves please. You make it sound like yours are the ONLY hot reactive horses out there,(or for use the MOST, since they cannot be second at anything) and that your shows are the most expensive on the planet, as well as that your discipline is "precise"---like the rest of ours aren't-just in a different way? You are the ones sounding elitist. There is no need for any of us to contribute to that. I for one would strongly disagree that your discipline is the only "precise" and expensive one out there. Sorry, but I really find this whole attitude the reason I have the impression that dressage folk are a bit snobbish. And I am trying to be as nice as possible…..again-you all are saying these things….I am simply reading them.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> I realize that Anebel and you think we all pick on the dressage folks, but just listen to yourselves please. You make it sound like yours are the ONLY hot reactive horses out there,(or for use the MOST, since they cannot be second at anything) and that your shows are the most expensive on the planet, as well as that your discipline is "precise"---like the rest of ours aren't-just in a different way? You are the ones sounding elitist. There is no need for any of us to contribute to that. I for one would strongly disagree that your discipline is the only "precise" and expensive one out there. Sorry, but I really find this whole attitude the reason I have the impression that dressage folk are a bit snobbish. And I am trying to be as nice as possible…..again-you all are saying these things….I am simply reading them.


You are interpreting them that way. WHERE in this post is it said that no other discipline requires precision?? Where is it said that no other discipline is expensive? Or no other horses are hot or reactive?
The answer is NEVER.

The point is that YOU are the one reading these things into the post. The post says - hot young green warmbloods are reactive in a new environment and where there is lots of $ on the line and potential for danger, it is not excessive to ask someone to move a spooky object.
The exact same thing can happen anywhere, with any sport. The difference is people think being 5m away from a dressage fence is OK - would any barrel race put spectators 5m away from a barrel with no fence between them and the barrel? A jumping competition have parking 5m away from a big jump with only an 8" high white fence between the horses and the cars? Etc..

Call us snobby all you would like - truth is we're all on hot horses (some horses a bit hotter and more prone to flying through the air than others) in sports that are difficult and all the judgement between the disciplines is just tiresome. I have NEVER said reining, barrels, etc.. are not difficult. Don't know why these words keep getting shoved in my mouth??


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> And the discrimination continues LOL.
> I agree with Kayty. Number one, these are not quarter horses and number two this is not a barrel race. Apples and oranges.
> I was at a competition last weekend on a very spooky, hot horse and it is not fun to be on something you have to get through a test on that you know is going to be flying sideways at least once during the ride. There are also rules about how far from the ring spectators must be. Were there not stands and designated spectator areas?
> 
> ...



I worked with several 'hot' show horses for a few years getting them ready for nationals and shows, grant it that was saddleseat, park classes, and driving competitions but you know what we always did? We desensitized them to EVERYTHING that could possibly come up. Including babies and strollers (prams). IMHO if you can't desensitize even a hot horse at a show or work them through it (spook or no spook) then that's a problem on your end, not the spectators. Heck when I went with my boss to a couple of shows we'd take the horses up and down and around the crowds every chance we got to get them used to stuff and some of those horses were hotter than most warmbloods! I also hold the strong opinion that just because you paid to enter that class does not mean that every one needs to cater to what you haven't gotten your horse used to. I was always told that you made sure your horse was 100% ready BEFORE you even thought about putting the $$$$ into that class. 

OP I'm sorry you had to face such a bad scenario. It really was ridiculous and uncalled for to have you move multiple times and then leave.

P.s I ride dressage, I plan to compete in that discipline when I get my next horse so I'm not being biased or discriminatory because EVERY discipline can be like that. But still I would be mortified to ask someone from the audience to move back because my horse was spooking and I'm pretty sure that my trainer would pull me off my horse and beat me to death for even suggesting that.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Incitatus32 said:


> I worked with several 'hot' show horses for a few years getting them ready for nationals and shows, grant it that was saddleseat, park classes, and driving competitions but you know what we always did? We desensitized them to EVERYTHING that could possibly come up. Including babies and strollers (prams). IMHO if you can't desensitize even a hot horse at a show or work them through it (spook or no spook) then that's a problem on your end, not the spectators. Heck when I went with my boss to a couple of shows we'd take the horses up and down and around the crowds every chance we got to get them used to stuff and some of those horses were hotter than most warmbloods! I also hold the strong opinion that just because you paid to enter that class does not mean that every one needs to cater to what you haven't gotten your horse used to. I was always told that you made sure your horse was 100% ready BEFORE you even thought about putting the $$$$ into that class.
> 
> OP I'm sorry you had to face such a bad scenario. It really was ridiculous and uncalled for to have you move multiple times and then leave.
> 
> P.s I ride dressage, I plan to compete in that discipline when I get my next horse so I'm not being biased or discriminatory because EVERY discipline can be like that. But still I would be mortified to ask someone from the audience to move back because my horse was spooking and I'm pretty sure that my trainer would pull me off my horse and beat me to death for even suggesting that.


And I can canter while holding onto a tarp on these horses. Get them into a new environment and it's difficult to predict how they will react. Some are rock solid, others are very nervous.

David Marcus ( Canada) - YouTube





Both of these are well ridden, older, trained horses. Inexperienced in the big, big rings, but not far off from what can happen. Would hate to see either happen in the entrance to a ring with a baby nearby


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I understand that completely believe me lol. I was also incorporating multiple shows where you bring the horse to with simply the plan to desensitize and/or work them around those objects without being in a class per say. I probably should have made that clear sorry.  

We used to do that constantly with ours. They had to go to a minimum of three shows for me and my boss to see how they acted and work with them before we even entered them in a class (without expecting to have to leave the class).


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> And I can canter while holding onto a tarp on these horses. Get them into a new environment and it's difficult to predict how they will react. Some are rock solid, others are very nervous.
> 
> David Marcus ( Canada) - YouTube
> 
> ...


Sigh how many times must I say it, I was not near the entrance to the arena and to start I was 10 meters away and happily moved to 20 when asked! My annoyance is being pushed further and further back before being asked to leave.

The audience in the video you showed do you think they were asked to leave after that horse did that? Also that horse did not spook...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Obviously we are only privy to one side of the story in this instance and I find it difficult to believe that someone standing in an area designated for spectators and doing nothing else would be asked to leave a competition.

The first horse, was a big spook. The second horse, regardless, I still would not want to be standing behind with a child.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> You are interpreting them that way. WHERE in this post is it said that no other discipline requires precision?? Where is it said that no other discipline is expensive? Or no other horses are hot or reactive?
> The answer is NEVER.
> 
> The point is that YOU are the one reading these things into the post. The post says - hot young green warmbloods are reactive in a new environment and where there is lots of $ on the line and potential for danger, it is not excessive to ask someone to move a spooky object.
> ...


 PLEASE NOTE: you were not the one quoted. What I said was just what has happened-You think that we are all here to call dressage folks snobs, and that you would jump all over my post, which you have. 

There is "lots of $$ on the line and the potential for danger" in most disciplines at shows, not just dressage. Shoot-look at the cars that go into the stands at races and the planes that fall from the sky during exhibitions. Again-the OP was NOWHERE NEAR the ring. She was yards away, and getting farther since they seemingly wanted her to watch from another planet. :wink:


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Obviously we are only privy to one side of the story in this instance and I find it difficult to believe that someone standing in an area designated for spectators and doing nothing else would be asked to leave a competition.
> 
> The first horse, was a big spook. The second horse, regardless, I still would not want to be standing behind with a child.


Lol so I must be lying? Would you like me to draw you a picture? There are 5 arenas side by side with room around each I think about 5 metres for horse and rider to go around and enter. I have never been to a dressage show before so stood about 10 meters away on the grass from the arena. The first horse didn't do more than look side ways at the pram as they came around the side of the arena heading around to entrance (on other side from me). But she stopped her horse and asked me to move back and the judges agreed I should move back. I did move back to about 20 meters. Then next two riders asked to move back further. Til 4th rider came up and at about 35 meters her horse bulked and threatened to rear up. 

The pram/stroller is black with 3 wheels? The only time I spoke to anyone was the first time they asked me to move back. I asked the judges if I was ok where I was standing and they said yes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

I have seen QHs act crazier than some WBs I've seen.... A girl I know has a imported WB and he's a little spooky but nothing like this one QH my other friend has...

I think it's ridiculous they asked you to move that far back. If you were in the area designated for spectators then that's their problem they didn't desenzitize the horse. I've been to a show where that happened and one of the horses kept spooking and they asked them to leave because they could not control their own horse... I understand that horses are unpredictable but I can't imagine me telling someone to move 35meters away from the arena...my trainer would yank me off and tan my hide.:lol:


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## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

"Next rider horse looked sideways at pram and we were then asked to move back more. 3rd rider comes out asks us to move back further again. 4th Rider comes up she is a good 35 meters from us her horse freaks out threatens to rear and we are asks to "go some place else"


so even at over 100 ft away you were requested to leave!!!???!!!


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Well if "go someplace else" is asking someone to leave?
_Posted via Mobile Device_

It was the rider that asked that not judges. Judges did not make any further comment after the initial 20 meters. Her horse put its head up and went light on the front end and kind if made threatening hops. But she never took the pressure off its mouth, didn't use her legs or fancy whip to push horse forward. She sat there and very loudly asked for me to go someplace else.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Anebel--I don't think anyone is picking on you here  I'm not a SUPER Dressage rider... But I have taken a few lessons from some very skilled instructors. I have also ridden dozens of Warmbloods and Thoroughbreds. 

In my experience, the WBs have been generally less hot than the TBs. But, I think this has a lot to do with personal experience. Each horse is an individual.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its quite possible that it was this horses first outing then and the rider was wanting to give it the best possible chance. Its not at all unusual for a horse to get overwhelmed at its first show no matter how much preparation you put in
Essentially the competition was being held for the horses so they come first - if people choose to go and spectate then they are really surplus to requirement unless they've paid an admission and then should stay in a designated area if asked to do so
As a horse owner that's competed at shows on young horses I know how hard it can be when one start to feel edgy and tense so I would have been totally sympathetic towards that rider preferring to show support to her needs ahead of my own convenience.
I wouldn't have needed to be asked to move away - I would have already been gone to a point where the horse wasn't focused on me and the pram so the rider who sounded to be inexperienced could at least have a chance
I'm sorry you feel offended by what happened but she paid to enter and regardless of if she got her horse ready for it correctly or not IMO it was 'her day' not yours because the competition was being held for the horses.


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## newhorsemom (Jun 20, 2008)

Maybe I have a way different perspective on this but if I were asked to move once I would very willingly do so and if I were asked a second time I would move all together or remove the pram from sight. Not because of how a horse should or shouldn't act but because the possibility of harm to my baby. If a rider complains about a potential spook it's irrelevant if they should or shouldn't be at a show with a spooky horse. The fact is that the horse is at the show and the rider feels it might spook and I would not want to endanger my child. That's one of the realities of being at a horse show versus a playground.

OP - I understand your frustration but at the end of the day you went home with a unharmed kid and that's the most important part!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

It was not ONE rider, Jaydee…and the OP was a LONG way from the ring.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I can understand the OP's annoyance, HOWEVER if a rider asked me to move myself and my child further away from the ring because my horse was being twittery and stupid (for whatever reason because there are many many reasons horses act like lunatics), I would do it without question. For my safety, the safety of my child, the rider, the other spectators, and even the horse. Might I be a bit annoyed? Yes, but you know, I've been on top of a horse that's riding that really fine line between exploding and settling down and I have no wish to push someone else's horse past that point.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

The dressage horse was refusing the aids because of the training...he plain ol said not, it was NOT shying/etc. I rode open jumpers, top eq (western horses), race horses, and fei dressage. They did not shy, they were ridden ON THE AIDS. Never before in time have horses been such green house plants with no expectations put upon them. Tb types even went into battle, it has nothing to do with breed either. Riders look for something to blame when there horses are not focused, but it is the rider which does not understand how to sustain focus.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

At 35 meters the horse can't tell the pram from a rock or a bush or two people standing side by side. The horse didn't want to be there and it was likely coincidental where it chose to act up.


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

People like to make excuses for their horse being disobediant, or for the rider being tense and making the horse tense. (not including horses that are green or just strating competitions, but even green horses shoudl be introduced to similar enviroments to get over their fears, so that they dont go bat shie crazy when they go to a comp)

I have seen it all the time, people not setting up their horses to deal with situations they place them in, so know wounder the horse acts up. 

I think desensetising is great. Doing things like trail rides and riding out of the arena could avoid the horse spooking so much, but than theres that idea that i cant take my horse out of the arena because his to spooky...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> It was not ONE rider, Jaydee…and the OP was a LONG way from the ring.


 The OP said:

_It was the rider that asked that not judges. Judges did not make any further comment after the initial 20 meters
_So I assumed it was just that one rider that was having a problem and the judge thought it correct to come to their assistance rather than have a wreck on her hands
To me its just called having consideration for a fellow horse person who's struggling and out of their depth and moving away would have been no big deal to me at all
And since none of us was there to see what happened its impossible to say if the horse was spooking or if it was badly trained - even the OP from 100 meters away would have struggled to see what happened after she moved especially if other people were still standing around in front of her
Everyone has to start somewhere and that often means novice riders making their ring debut and green horses going into the ring for the first time and most judges will do everything they can to help them
I prefer to encourage newcomers not discourage them so I guess I'm more sympathetic to other people when they are having a hard time with a horse.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

No for nothing, I've seen plenty of baby carriages and strollers around barns and show ground! It's a horse owners responsibility to expose there horse to things that they don't seen day to day like baby carriages, garbage cans, bikes, dogs, bags, canes/crutches, umbrellas, etc *especially if you plan on taking you horse off the premises to a show or trail ride!* If your horse becomes to panicked and frazzled over something that badly _you_ are a danger to yourself, your horse, and the horses and riders around you! The show environment is not about everything beings the same and nothing scary. Have you even been to the a big horse show? I usually go to the hampton classic every year. There are trucks, bikes, kids, dogs, tents, bleachers, food trucks, people making noise, kids running, horses ALL over the place, funny looking objects in the ring, loud speakers... the list goes on and on! 

That said, out of respect for the riders I wouldn't be parking my carriage right next to side of the arena, I'd set it back a little bit just to avoid possibly causing a disaster. OP, you were MORE then a respectable distance away. At this point it is the riders problem. If it wasn't you it would probably have been something else! Are the going to ask the food truck to leave next? Move the porter potties? Tents? Garbage cans?


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> At 35 meters the horse can't tell the pram from a rock or a bush or two people standing side by side. The horse didn't want to be there and it was likely coincidental where it chose to act up.


Some people here have made great points as I feel better about being right in my annoyance. 

However when I read this comment I think I know what has happened. Each time that a rider had asked me to move back they have further pushed the pram out of the general surroundings if the show. So by the time the 4th rider came out all the horse could see was a foreign black object against the flat green background of the grass. 

Possibly by seeing the other riders ask me to move back she was nervous about the pram being there so the horse immediately focused on it.

Im not the most experienced rider by a mile but my first proper trainer for a green horse I had taught me to ride him like nothing was an issue. If you think a horse will spook at something then it will. 

I just make sure my horses flex for a one rein stop before I ride them out!

Oh and he also taught me to ride him forward as I tend to let my horses dawdle, I'm still working on that though 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Seems to me that these riders really don't know how to ride. I wouldn't be thrilled about my horse shying from the pram, but I'd deal with it and chalk it up to experience. You had every right to be there and not in bfe! It's not about how much the entry fees were or whether or not we win a ribbon, it's about me and my horse and how well we adjust to different situations.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Isabell Werth's Mishap - YouTube


THIS is supposed to be your example of a majorly spooky, nervous dressage horse that the rest of us mere mortals couldn't imagine riding? Because we all ride Quarter Horses and off-the-track TB's, right? Good grief!!!! 

My trail horses do more than this each and every ride! Try riding a spooky 3 yr old when a flock of ducks fly off a pond, elk go crashing through the woods, loose dogs come running straight at you, etc. And even when he's not spooking he throws in frolicking bucks here and there. And we are out in the real world, interacting with cars, ATVs, wildlife, oh, and of course the horses in the pasture down the road who all come galloping up bucking as you ride by. Try THAT and then complain about your horse being nervous in the show ring. 

Oh, and I've been putting tarps all over my colt since he was born too.

The point is, ALL horses can be spooky and reactive. Dressage riders are not ubber special people because they have fancy high bred horses. Even the joe-bloe down the street with the $500 trail horse has to deal with the same exact issues. They are still just horses!

Yeah, my colt would have been scared of the pram too! But that doesn't mean my horse is more special than everyone else's and the rest of the horse world just wouldn't understand because their horses are not as sensitive and highly bred as mine. Know what I mean?


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> David Marcus ( Canada) - YouTube


Missed this one the first time around because it didn't show up as a video in the post. Yup, ALL horses are capable of this type of behavior, even the ones that are not bred for dressage. :lol:

Actually, I kind of feel sorry for these horses because they a lot like a pressure cooker releasing steam. If you are saying these horses are very near the breaking point (as in, ready to explode into a tantrum and under a lot of stress) I will agree with that. What I don't agree with is that they are any different from any segment of the horse population. Maybe their behavior is due to their management and training, but I doubt it us due to their breeding. All breeds are capable of stress to the breaking point. And spooky or unpredictable behavior.


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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

I wanted to post earlier but I was too busy… I second Frankandbeans’s assessment of how your posts have come across as I have felt the same way.

~*~anebel~*~ Frank never said all dressage riders were snobby just your current representation. And while you probably didn’t mean to come off that way you took a very snobby and rude tone. 

You started out with, “And the discrimination continues LOL.” Completely ready to defend something that wasn’t under attack. The tone you set was defensive from the very very beginning. This is how YOU started the conversation- how is any one supposed to react to that pleasantly?

In your last post you wonder where any one could have got the impression that you said no other horses were reactive, but in your first post you said, “these are not quarter horses and this is not a barrel race.” Sure explicitly you didn’t say quarters are the remedial breed in the horse world but the implicit message was read loud and clear. (Do we even know if the horses in question were WBs? They could have been anything- I’ve even seen QHs *shock* in dressage.)

Then you go into how you know sooo many deadhead TBs (they are kittens) and they couldn’t possibly compare to the super hot wound up Warmbloods that you ride. Guess what, riding a hot horse doesn’t make you are hero (unless you’re a bronc rider ha!). It’s a simple choice to get on just like any other. If you handle yourself well on them (and you sure tell us you do) then great. But that doesn’t mean that the experiences of others are somehow less than your own. Its not a competition! And if someone makes the choice not to ride a hot horse it doesn’t make them less of a rider or make them unable to understand what riding an excitable horse is like. I don't buy into this "my horse is so crazy you should be impressed" culture. I understand the allure of it and the feeling of accomplisment after sticking a spook, rear or buck but I don't get the boasting. 

Regardless, when some one says, “If you want I can put you on the hot kid and you can see how much you want to ride around a pram LOL this stands for everyone.” These “see how much you would like it” comments are just unnecessary. Guess what, most if not all of us ride horses- we know exactly what that is like. 

“OP is lucky she did not spook a horse who then ran over her and her child “ Seriously? She wasn’t rolling the baby through the arena, and she said she WAS in the designated viewing area. By that logic its lucky my horses doesn’t kill me or someone in my local proximity every time we saddle up. And even in your videos, I would say they were pretty mild episodes. (How many times does a horse spook into the object they are afraid of? Oh thats right they pretty much allways go away from it.)

Bottom line if a person is scared of riding their “hot horse” by something then they maybe they need to find a calmer horse and get more experience. 

Regarding the pram and the horses – if these horse are soooo sensitive and easily spooked they why the heck are their giant bouquets of flowers every three feet?!?! That would scare the bajesus out of my horse for the first few times around. 

Another thing, I would think that you would WANT people bringing their kids and getting them into the sport. It’s a great way to get them interested and wanting to take lessons when they are old enough and aren’t kids who parents pay for lessons a good thing?

Its tough being a new mom and venturing out with a 3 month olds, it can be scary and intimidating (not speaking for the OP just saying) and for the experience to be unpleasant just makes trying it again even harder. 

Frank said it best and I concur, “_And I am trying to be as nice as possible…..again-you all are saying these things….I am simply reading them.”_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

:clap::clap:Well said, Roux.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The horse did not see the pram. At 35meters think of a camera that's rather out of focus. A horse's eyesight see clearly to about 13' ahead of it, designed to spot the next clumps of grass. When it thinks it sees movement then it goes on high alert, trying to see, hear and smell whatever and tenses it's body for a mad dash to safety. Many of these dressage horses are already hyped up and it can take almost nothing to set them off. Having no trust in the rider doesn't help the matter. We can't possibly desensitise a horse to everything we might encounter. But if the horse trusts the rider's leadership or judgement then it usually goes well. Think of how many people show at fairs with noisy rides going around and up and down, crowds of people and they take it in stride.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

I do agree with the OP, for the most part.

Not gonna lie, I've told people to move at shows. During a green ranch pleasure class I was in, some girls were running up and down the bleachers 1foot a way. My horse is generally chill about everything, that he wasn't. Jolted to the inside of the arena and was a nervous wreck the rest of the class. They were not there the next class. 

I've had to tell spectators to get out of my way. I was riding a very hot mare who was extremely nervous around crowds. It was the state fair, I was there for a drill team Comp. Naturally, as I am tacking her up in her stall, like 15 people crowded around her stall (can we pet her? She's so pretty I bet she's an appaloosa. Can we feed her? What's her Name? OOOOOH easy girl eeeeeeeasy). 

I worked with KC Montgomery (the official photographer for the AQHA world show) for two weeks, and if somebody says "don't take pictures of this horse" or "please keep your camera out of sight while this horse is on pattern", he gratefully will. They spectators are their for enjoyment and watch a horse perform to it's best. If they are preventing that in some way, they need to leave. It's show etiquette.

I'm not afraid to tell people to move. If you are unknowingly spooking horses, putting riders in danger, or even yourself, I'm going to tell you to move (not saying you were). I'm paying hundreds of dollars everytime I go to a show. I prep my horses as much as I can, there are only so many things you can prepare for! My horses are essentially boom proof, but everyone has off days. I'm not there to make friends with spectators (although I am very nice and courteous to everyone, on a horse or not).


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

It seems a bit ridiculous to be asked to move so far away. I think it was more the riders were worried their horse might spook rather than the horse actually being frightened of the stroller.
How many of these riders would have an arena with boards and markers and flowers decorating their arenas at home? Yet they ride not expecting the horse to spook at them so it doesn't.

I should the horses from nothing, children in prams, on skateboards and bicycles, playing soccer, ATVs tractors, dogs and so on. They get use to it from the start so when they go out into the big wide world they just accept it all.

One Welsh pony I had for my nerve was a good example of well versed in all things spooky. At a major show the first ridden were in the arena being judged. In the adjoining arena they had a dressed up farm tractor class, one was made to look like a swan, and must have taken hours to do! When it drove past the ponies all but Rain took off, she looked but continued on her way totally unglazed by this strange monster. There were children on the floor bawling their eyes out ponies having a great time charging around the ring, all chaos. Fortunately no one was hurt, child or pony. 
Rain won the class just because she proved to be a totally safe forts ridden pony.


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## Paintedponies1992 (Nov 17, 2013)

After reading all this I think I'm going to find an old baby carriage and use it as a desensitization tool in my groundwork with my guys now.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Get yourself a bike, too……and tie balloons on it.

All just makes for fun stuff to work on, IMO. No, you cannot bombproof any horse, but the more you work on "scary" stuff and get them to trust you the better off you will be in the long run.

Helping mom pick up after a fun session…..:wink:


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

MangoRoX87 said:


> I do agree with the OP, for the most part.
> 
> Not gonna lie, I've told people to move at shows. *During a green ranch pleasure class I was in, some girls were running up and down the bleachers 1foot a way. *My horse is generally chill about everything, that he wasn't. Jolted to the inside of the arena and was a nervous wreck the rest of the class. They were not there the next class.
> 
> ...


I would agree, there are times when it _is_ appropriate to tell people to stop doing certain things. Running up and down bleachers is rather obnoxious and just plain disrespectful! I think it somewhat goes out of the scope of acceptable behavior. 

Over the summer I was at local western show. Two boys who had shown in the peewee classes were plays with large plastic dump trucks in the sand right next to the area rail. They were runnings back and fourth pushing the dump trucks. The ring steward politely asked them to stop and redirected them to a better place to play.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Get yourself a bike, too……and tie balloons on it.
> 
> All just makes for fun stuff to work on, IMO. No, you cannot bombproof any horse, but the more you work on "scary" stuff and get them to trust you the better off you will be in the long run.
> 
> Helping mom pick up after a fun session…..:wink:


Seriously, the more stuff the merrier. The more you expose them to things the less and less scary the next things becomes! Eventually they will start looking at you and rolling their eyes :lol:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I just look at that picture….and miss seeing the beautiful green grass….warm temps….and my horse I have not seen since October…...ahhh…..Shoot-at this point, I will even take the flies-just not the huge black bomber ones. 

Sorry….back on track.:lol:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Getting your horse used to things is great - but I can tell you now that I can throw my jacket over any of my horses heads, throw it over the doors in the barn but I bet if I let if lying on the filed or hanging over the rails in the manege without them seeing it there most of them would give it a very suspicious stare
Until you actually take a horse to a show you have no clue how its going to react not matter how may hours of desensitizing you put in - and no two horses are ever the same in the way they will react at their first competition
The horses Anebel showed in those videos are seasoned dressage horses ridden by experienced capable riders yet still went into a meltdown moment for no obvious reason.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

jaydee said:


> The horses Anebel showed in those videos are seasoned dressage horses ridden by experienced capable riders yet still went into a meltdown moment *for no obvious reason.*


Those horses didn't look spooky to me, they looked stressed. Maybe something spooky set them off (like the one horse didn't like the people in the rain ponchos) but it's not like they were calm and then spooked. They were stressed and had a mental breakdown. To me the obvious reason was the horses couldn't take the stress on that particular day.

Maybe that's the difference......it's not that dressage horses are ubber special and more sensitive than other horses, they just have so much stress during competition that any little thing can set them off?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I would agree that it probably is unlikely that the horse was actually spooking at the buggy - we weren't there so don't even know if the horse was even spooking at all but just having a bad turn for some reason and so presented a danger to onlookers that couldn't move fast enough.
I wouldn't say that dressage horses are under more stress but they can't have a good gallop around to blow off that surplus tension and energy because the nature of the competition demands a lot of control


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm not bashing dressage, I just switched over to it myself recently, but what is the deal with everyone being super silent while someone rides a test? When I rode jumpers, the spectators would be screaming, yelling, and shouting as you rode through your jump off course. Even at the Grand Prix level. The horses never mind and in fact seem to enjoy the attention and applause. I know that riding a test takes a lot of concentration, but I don't see why people shouldn't applaud a pair when they have a really nice moment as they are going through their test? Or why can't people cheer and applaud the pair after they finish their test?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

jaydee said:


> I would agree that it probably is unlikely that the horse was actually spooking at the buggy - we weren't there so don't even know if the horse was even spooking at all but just having a bad turn for some reason and so presented a danger to onlookers that couldn't move fast enough.



No we weren't there, but I am guessing that it was a rider issue rather than a horse one, as it often is.....How often would a horse totally ignore something like a pram way back from the arena if the rider wasn't getting stressed about it.

Those scary boxes of flowers around the arena however, that riders are totally cool about, but the horse can see the invisible dragon that you missed, yeah they shouldn't be allowed.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I honestly don't like making assumptions that blame a horse or rider in a situation like this based on no first hand personal knowledge of what was going on
If it was a really small show that's aimed at novice horses and/or riders you don't usually get much in the way of spectators at all other than interested 'dressage' people that are generally sympathetic to the temperaments of the horses and go out of the way to help as much as they can when they see someone having a problem
The first show I took Flo too - even though she'd been safely riding around the roads for 6 months including through a busy village with all sorts going on - she was so badly behaved I walked her round the grounds and stuck her back on the horsebox and took her home rather than risk having her or someone else injured, but while we were doing that everyone had the common sense and courtesy to give us a wide berth. The next show she went too she behaved perfectly.
Given that the OP mentioned that the rider was carrying a whip it wouldn't have been an FEI competition so could just have been a low key training show - I have no idea and so don't feel that its fair to judge either the rider or the horse


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

It is interesting, because at (little winter) indoor shows in Germany people are eating/pushing prams/etc virtually on the side of the arena (not moved back). If the horse is unsettled, then stand there or walk it for the day.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

At all the indoor show venues I've been to in the UK and in the US there's a solid wall that divides the spectators from the competitors so any buggies are hidden from the horses view and no one is allowed to walk inside of that area other than actual competitors and show officials


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## Tigo (Feb 25, 2012)

This is why I'm quietly thankful for my coach's 5 year old boy that drives me bonkers when I ride. Zooming around with his toy trucks and dragging the stall forks around right at the rail and sometimes throwing dirt and toys around as you ride by. He'll rip by on his bike in the summer and play just outside the stalls under their noses. All our horses learned to deal. We always joke that we'll have the best broke horses around! When he was a baby and she was starting my gelding, she would tack him up and walk around with him (or whichever horse she worked) and the pram. They're all well desensitized to young kids and scary things like that. We own the stable and run the bobcat and quads for maintenance while people are riding (obviously outside the rings in a safe area), sometimes even down the driveway past them! At shows, they don't look twice at bikes or prams or quads or tractors etc. 

Even with that all my horse is exposed to at home, I took him to one show and he lost his marbles. He was spooking at spectators outside the ring like crazy and then in our test we didn't even get down centreline because he was spooking at the judges booth and were excused - two tests in a row. I never asked someone to move. If I can't ride my horse past whatever is around, I consider it my problem. Maybe not all riders are brave enough to just ride through (or at least try), but I would never dream of asking someone to move unless they were creating a legitimately dangerous situation. Most of the time, he spooks the hardest at the things in the ring like the judge's booths and I sure can't get them to leave! As someone else said, my coach would probably drag me off my horse and beat me to death if I asked people to move because my horse was in a tizzy haha. Horse has gotta learn to deal, imo!!


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jaydee said:


> At all the indoor show venues I've been to in the UK and in the US there's a solid wall that divides the spectators from the competitors so any buggies are hidden from the horses view and no one is allowed to walk inside of that area other than actual competitors and show officials


The boards are specifically there so the horses can't see buggies?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

While I understand that we cannot take away everything that a horse might spook at- a show and a training session are two different things. If a horse was spooking at your "pram" they had every right to ask you to move. Its not only about your safety, but the safety of the other people involved. If a horse were to spook and bolt in the other direction, or anywhere- he could likely hurt someone else. Or someone else's child. 

You should be more understanding of the fact that everyone has a job to do- and when it comes to safety, no one is sorry that they inconvenienced you. 

Yes, people should teach their horses to get over it and continue to do what they are told... but show grounds are not the place to be training your horse.


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Strawberry4Me said:


> While I understand that we cannot take away everything that a horse might spook at- a show and a training session are two different things. If a horse was spooking at your "pram" they had every right to ask you to move. Its not only about your safety, but the safety of the other people involved. If a horse were to spook and bolt in the other direction, or anywhere- he could likely hurt someone else. Or someone else's child.
> 
> You should be more understanding of the fact that everyone has a job to do- and when it comes to safety, no one is sorry that they inconvenienced you.
> 
> Yes, people should teach their horses to get over it and continue to do what they are told... but show grounds are not the place to be training your horse.


If that horse is likely to bolt and hurt someone else's child then they better leave as well. Heck they should just ask everyone to leave so the the rider and horse do not have anyone around them at all. Oh wait it wouldn't be a "show" then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Liligirl said:


> If that horse is likely to bolt and hurt someone else's child then they better leave as well. Heck they should just ask everyone to leave so the the rider and horse do not have anyone around them at all. Oh wait it wouldn't be a "show" then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
It doesn't matter what he is "likely" to do. He is a horse. Even the best behaved horses on the planet have a slight chance of spooking and hurting someone. Why not just respect that the officiators asked you to move? Its silly to get this far in depth really. 

I have been asked to move before, and you know what I did? I respectfully did what was asked of me. I was courteous. I can't even remember the situation now, because it did not matter. All that mattered was that I was asked to do something, and I did it. No questions, no temper tantrums, no complaining about it for hours. 

They were probably trying to keep your baby safe. As you said, you haven't been to a show in quite sometime. I am sure the officiators knew the horses better than you did, and maybe they had good reason to keep you clear out of harms way? You don't know the situation.


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Because any horse has the chance it may spook I think that they shouldn't have any shows at all. Just incase...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Seriously?


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

First, I agree--show horses _should_ be desensitized to the as much of the world as possible before they compete in the ring.
BUT, I also am glad that they moved you back. No telling what a freaked out horse can do and your baby didn't get stomped on while the horse panicked and bolted.
*Secondly, learn from this. Train YOUR horse to be able to handle the everyday flapping of plastic AND garbage cans AND people walking around them.* People just assume that horses won't ever hurt them. I almost lost it one time when I was sitting in my tent at a CW event and a couple decided to put their toddler on my horse (Corporal), who was on a picket line sans halter, but still saddled. I KNOW that he wouldn't have done anything wrong. Still, _he might have side stepped and the kid would have fallen off. _ I ran over to lecture them about the possibilities, and that this was MY horse, my property.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Strawberry-we all know that the world would be safer if everyone (not just babies in prams) keep a certain distance and maintain a certain level of noise, etc during a show. However-the OP was asked to move, as I recall, 3 times, and about 90 feet. That is ridiculous, IMO. I don't think anyone minds moving once perhaps, so that baby is not right next to the ring….but 90 feet? Seriously?


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> Strawberry-we all know that the world would be safer if everyone (not just babies in prams) keep a certain distance and maintain a certain level of noise, etc during a show. However-the OP was asked to move, as I recall, 3 times, and about 90 feet. That is ridiculous, IMO. I don't think anyone minds moving once perhaps, so that baby is not right next to the ring….but 90 feet? Seriously?


Yes I did explain that in my original post. However I can't stop people from reading what they want to, which is this:

I was standing right next to the arena with my pram. Which by the way is covered in many coloured flags that flap around and makes loud strange noises. I also refused to move when asked by the officials. Therefore I am putting the life of my baby and all the innocent bystanders in immediate danger! I should be ashamed of my behaviour and disregard for the safety of the entire human race!!!

Edit: forgot to add something about how these highly trained horses displaying thier obedience and submission and how the riders are judged in thier control... Oh well just pretend I did.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

10m (33') is NOT right next to the arena imho


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I think there are REASONABLE things to ask a person to do. Asking her to move back would have been reasonable. I gave another example of two body running back and forth with plastic trucks. They were asked to move to a different location. But being asked to leave?? I think that is to far!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Liligirl said:


> Yes I did explain that in my original post. However I can't stop people from reading what they want to, which is this:
> 
> I was standing right next to the arena with my pram. Which by the way is covered in many coloured flags that flap around and makes loud strange noises. I also refused to move when asked by the officials. Therefore I am putting the life of my baby and all the innocent bystanders in immediate danger! I should be ashamed of my behaviour and disregard for the safety of the entire human race!!!
> 
> ...


Well, I see that you refuse to listen to any opinions that differ from your own. On that note, I will be unsubscribing from this thread. Its pointless to share my opinion here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

SlideStop said:


> I think there are REASONABLE things to ask a person to do. Asking her to move back would have been reasonable. I gave another example of two body running back and forth with plastic trucks. They were asked to move to a different location. But being asked to leave?? I think that is to far!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suspect there was an attitude when asked to move- being asked to leave was probably warranted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The walls are there to protect the spectators in Indoor Shows (where they have them)
At most outdoor shows they have ropes around the rings - though I've seen plenty of horses go through them or over them so not foolproof
The small training type shows might say 'Auditors welcome' but essentially they are all about the horse and helping riders prepare them for the larger shows so the riders do get given preference over the people who've just turned up to watch at no charge
I was surprised that the horse would have been concerned about the buggy since they see wheelbarrows around the place all the time so I'm not sure it was even spooking at all. The horse could have just been having a meltdown and the rider might have been concerned that her horse was going to bolt out and saw the child in the buggy as being more at risk of not being able to get away as quickly as people on their own two feet can
There was a child in this buggy that miraculously escaped injury in this UK incident - but the owners of the vehicle that got slightly damaged were suing the show organisers for allowing them to park there


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Strawberry4Me said:


> I suspect there was an attitude when asked to move- being asked to leave was probably warranted.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lol Obvoisly didn't read the thread or only took what was wanted from it. If I have given attitude it is for this reason. And FYI I make further comment after reading the replies as to what I think the problem was...

At the risk of repeating myself yet again. I did not make any further comment when asked to move once by officials when I politely asked if it was for safety purposes. I just moved back further. But perhaps you are right in that I should have smiled and had a conversation with each rider about how sorry I was to have been anywhere near their horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

I still don't understand how a show is not an appropriate place to train.

I don't know about dressage horses, but I can't just turn off "training mode" when I get to a show. The whole deal is about training, and at the same time, showing what you have trained. If I see something that is scary to my horse, I'm not just going to let them freak out because "I can't train I'm at a show". You either blow the class because your horse spooks or you blow the class because you have to fix your horse's attitude. If anything the show grounds mean more work than home. It's not a vacation. 

If my horse was scared of baby carriages, I'd rather throw a class at a lower level to get my horse over it. Then when you get to a big show that has baby carriages the horse doesn't think it can take advantage of the rider just because it's at a show. Several times I go to local shows to throw classes _on purpose_ to keep my horse from making assumptions for when we get to the big leagues and the stakes are higher to not make any mistakes.

To me it's money well spent.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

jaydee said:


> At all the indoor show venues I've been to in the UK and in the US there's a solid wall that divides the spectators from the competitors so any buggies are hidden from the horses view and no one is allowed to walk inside of that area other than actual competitors and show officials


I know you have been to Old Salem Farm. At their winter shows, they have a heated spectator area, but I've never seen anyone restricted from walking through the warmup area, which is the smaller indoor that connects to the big indoor where the classes are held. The big indoor has a small corner for spectators, and there is a barrier but it is not a solid wall.


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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

> I was standing right next to the arena with my pram. Which by the way is covered in many coloured flags that flap around and makes loud strange noises. I also refused to move when asked by the officials. Therefore I am putting the life of my baby and all the innocent bystanders in immediate danger! I should be ashamed of my behaviour and disregard for the safety of the entire human race!!!


You should be ashamed of yourself!!!  j/k


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Ahhh…Oh Vair OH….I think that is the feeling of many of us. I am one who doesn't care where my horse is. If he acts like an idiot, he will be disciplined. I paid my $$ just like everyone else, and I can hear the ***GASP*** as I do it, but who cares? I do NOT want a horse who learns that when he is in a show he can do what he wants because I am not supposed to discipline him.(AKA school) I have done it MANY times over the years. I for one don't really give a rats behind whether someone likes it or not, including the judge. But, then, I go to have fun and learn, and am not one of those who has to win at all costs.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

It was never a question of not training at a show, it is a question of desensitisation work - and yes, you still train that to an extent but when you are about to enter the arena it is not the time or place to hold up the entire days class timetable to get your horse over an object that can easily be moved. If we're talking about the judges or arena settings then you just have to deal with it yes. But if it's a person who can move back a little I don't even see where the 11 pages of discussion stems over other than a chance for a few people to dig their boot in on a personal level? I do think being asked to leave is excessive on the proviso the OP wasn't gobbing off about being asked to move.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Personally, after reading this, I feel there is WAY more to the story than we are hearing. It usually take a lot for show management to take such steps. Count me as one who would like to hear the other side of this story.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Kayty said:


> It was never a question of not training at a show, it is a question of desensitisation work - and yes, you still train that to an extent but when you are about to enter the arena it is not the time or place to hold up the entire days class timetable to get your horse over an object that can easily be moved. If we're talking about the judges or arena settings then you just have to deal with it yes. But if it's a person who can move back a little I don't even see where the 11 pages of discussion stems over other than a chance for a few people to dig their boot in on a personal level? I do think being asked to leave is excessive on the proviso the OP wasn't gobbing off about being asked to move.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the key wish desensitization and exposure is the more they get it the less and less likely they are to keep a level head. Don't you think a horse who is ridden into town or trailered out to trail ride is going to be less spooky then one who is kept in the same location with the same ring and the same objects around? 

The more you get them out there the more their not going to care what's around them. And if they are going to get frazzled they are going to trust their owners to keep them safe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Allison Finch said:


> Personally, after reading this, I feel there is WAY more to the story than we are hearing. It usually take a lot for show management to take such steps. Count me as one who would like to hear the other side of this story.


The judges only agreed once that I should move back to 20 meters. After that they never made any further comment to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I see both sides to it.

Yes people "should" desensitize to things. But face it, some people don't. I think that it's better to have erred on the side of caution and put the buggy out of sight than end up with a trampled baby.

There's plenty of things that people should do with their horses that don't get done. Every horse is also an individual so who knows it one horse is a green bean who just had a fright because it was chased by a little dog or had its tail pulled or whatever. There's plenty of reasons for a horse to get wound up and all the training in the world will not guarantee a horse doesn't become frazzled.

It's unfortunate that the OP had to miss the show but when it's a safety issue, I don't see what the outcry is about. If its safer for the riders and spectators for the buggy to be gone then it should be. Though I'm wondering if the riders just stopped in the middle of their test and should over the crowd to move the buggy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Absolutely, the more a horse goes out into a competition environment the more it will settle - but that will happen even if some of the distractions are moved to a greater distance in the first few instances. I for one know it would be counter productive with MY young horse to battle it out just prior to entering an arena to compete. I would rather get through the test and give the horse a good experience in the arena, then later go back and work on desensitisation. But I have always found that giving them some good experiences out the first few times without having them blow their brains tends to be more effective than facing up to everything straight off the bat. I know it's going into breed traits again, but I've taken ottbs (real ottbs not 5 yrs OTT), green qh's, Arabs, ponies etc out for their first few competition experiences, and the warmbloods have always tended to be the ones to truely lose their mind when overfaced. The tbs get incredibly anxious and do their skittish nervous carry on, but the wbs have been the ones to truely lose it. For all of them, I found it best to just keep taking them out 'nicely nicely' until they coped with the atmosphere, THEN start facing them up to 'scary' things.

Horses will always be horses, I've got a friend who is heavily into 'natural horsemanship', she rides around with tarps, tinsel, streamers, bells, blowing whistles, banging cans, along main roads, through high population areas and the horse is a dead head. Take him to a show and he stands at the float trembling and sweating up, and will launch himself from 'scary' things.

As I said earlier, and I know Anebel does the same, my horses always get ridden out, popped over a few poles, exposed to different things. I take mine out on the road, the tractor goes past him while under saddle, etc. but there is always something that will set them off when they're young and reactive. Not to mention competition nerves from the rider - in the first to admit I am tempted to down a few vodka shots prior to taking a young horse into its first test, it's darn scary when you're sitting on something that you know is very reactive, but there's only so much work you can do at home before you have to bite the bullet and take them to a comp. It's not about the training, saying that the horse that spooks is not trained is a very unfair judgement - but the fact that you're sitting on a highly reactive/explosive prey animal that could go off its clackers at the drop of a hat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> This annoys me more than anything else about show horses and show riders. They ride roundy round in the arena and never get exposed to life in the real world. If my horses don't have enough brain and spine to handle being at a show AND being ridden out on trail or on the street or wherever else I please to go, they don't stay long. My horse would not spook at a baby carriage (pram) for more than a minute before we'd work on that real quick. Unreal.


Amen sister!

A lot of people (people being show people) give me strange looks when I saw I trail ride my show horse. They always say that I will 'ruin' her training. 

...And yet they wonder why my horse doesn't spook at the trash can and their horses do. What a mystery.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

MY GAWD! Has anyone here been to a rodeo???

If your horse spooks at something at the stands and he spooks, runs off and bucks during a run...guess what, time to haul him to more shows...too bad, crap happens. The hazards of hauling your horse to town and paying money to compete.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

TheAQHAGirl said:


> Amen sister!
> 
> A lot of people (people being show people) give me strange looks when I saw I trail ride my show horse. They always say that I will 'ruin' her training.
> 
> ...And yet they wonder why my horse doesn't spook at the trash can and their horses do. What a mystery.


Are you guys even reading what's being posted?? :-|


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Bloody heck this thread has gone down the ol "mountain out of a molehill" route.

I think everybody can agree that being asked to move a safe distance from an unruly horse is alright. By the sounds of it, the reason the OP is so upset is because it was done numerous times, to a degree that she felt rather insulted. I personally don't blame her, if I had moved what I felt was a safe distance I would get pee'd off too.

I don't think there is any need for Dressage riders to be defensive, or to people to pick apart those involved in dressage. What happened could have been done at any show regardless of discipline. 

I think we are also all in agreement that horses can be right maggots sometimes. All the desensitizing in the world and sometimes Flicka will still act like the horse eating monster is out to get them... before realizing that oh wait it's just another horse. 

As I said before, trying to be a parent and be involved in horses is bloody hard work - especially with a baby as young as the OPs. I've many a time had to pull over on the side of the road to feed/change nappies on my travels between race meetings/shows/ect. Being in the situation where you feel "outcasted" so to speak isn't a nice feeling and I'm fairly certain those at the show wouldn't have wanted to offend you. I have moments where I'm snappy, we all do. We all have moments where we are so focused on what is happening directly in our lives that we don't understand the tone or manner in which we are speaking to somebody.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

updownrider said:


> I know you have been to Old Salem Farm. At their winter shows, they have a heated spectator area, but I've never seen anyone restricted from walking through the warmup area, which is the smaller indoor that connects to the big indoor where the classes are held. The big indoor has a small corner for spectators, and there is a barrier but it is not a solid wall.


Yes you can walk through the warm up area at Old Salem Farm - although you'd have to be crazy to push a buggy through there and equitate's post sounded as if she was referring to people walking around in the actual competition area at German shows and although that venue and I'm sure other places like it doesn't have a solid wall as a barrier it does still have a 'solid barrier of sorts to protect spectators from the horses which is something you don't alwayss get at small dressage shows held outside
I have to say that I don't think I've ever seen flags around a dressage arena either because distractions are kept at a minimal and something flapping in the corner of their eye can be enough to cause them to lose focus for just a few seconds which is going to lose you valuable points so its just not how they're set up.
Some typical low level dressage venues and one much higher up the scale one 
Spot the flags?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJoidkDTGSc
This one is a pony club championship class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfqdeR8VPqE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WgGTkSqG1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HPjOjChiyA
And at top level
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKQgTiqhPbw
Spot the spectators anywhere close enough to the dressage competition arena for a horse to even single out a single buggy amongst all the other objects standing around?


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Are you guys even reading what's being posted?? :-|


I did. But I saw that comment and got side tracked. Hehe.

Properly responding---I think it was pretty ridiculous that the OP had to move 35 meters so that their horses can handle the situation. Instead of putting an object aside, use it as a training tool to build off of. It bothers me that if they can't control their horses in a simple situation like that (just people standing near the rail) then how is it safe for them to be in the ring with other horses and riders?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Are you guys even reading what's being posted?? :-|


Nope, still not. 
Dressage riders will always only ever be prancing around on their 'sheshul fancy' horses which are always confined to a stable or a secured indoor arena with no distractions. PROVEN fact because someone said it on the internet, didn't you know? 
Therefore, I put it to you that our horses are not actually Dressage horses - they COULDN'T be because they cross train????:think:


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

For those on the side of the OP/the idea that it's ridiculous for a horse to be spooking at the pram (need to desensitize, train better, etc.)... have you really never had a horse just loose it's mind or be honestly terrified of something? 

A TBxWB mare I used to ride is one of the most mellow, chill, horses I've ever dealt with in the arena and out of it. I trail rode her a lot, been to a lot of different barns/facilities, lots of different shows, different riders, etc. Once I got her to walk over a tarp on the ground without any previous "sacking out" or desensitizing work. She snorted but did it because I told her to. Fast forward to a show (one of many) I took her in. We were in dressage, and she was a little excited because it was busy, but completely manageable, and to be honest, it's a little nice when she's pepped up at a show because she looks flashier. The dressage arena is sandwiched between the main warm up arena and the driving arena. Now she has seen many rigs, horses and ponies pulling, buggies, etc, and even lives with a 12hh pony at home. But today there was a little pinto mini being lunged in the driving arena. She. went. insane. The mini wasn't doing anything crazy, just lunging like a normal horse. But he was terrifying. As I trotted around the arena before my test, she bolted sideways when we went by him. If I had had the chance, I would have walked her up to him to get a good look, but the bell hand rang, and I had to get in the ring. She was completely distracted the whole test, bending to try and see where the pony was, too strong, inconsistent in the bridle, and just plain upset. We did have a fantastic lengthened trot though going away from the pony as she just tucked her hind end under and pushed! But the rest of the test was poor, and we got about 8% lower than our normal for that test. After the test I walked her up to the pony and asked the owner if they could meet. She was snorting like crazy and I was just hoping she wouldn't bolt again. The sniffed noses for 3 seconds, and then she was completely bored with him. Her whole body relaxed, and she just didn't care anymore. Not scared any more, and rode normally.

So, moral of the story. Any horse, even a well exposed, well trained, normally good natured individual, where you have a stimulating environment + something new/different + lack of time, (+ above normal pressure/stress) can lose his brains. I think it was ok that the riders asked OP to move further away in this situation, and it was obviously causing a problem. Not being there I don't know how it all went down, but I feel like the riders could have been more polite about it. But honestly, if I had been in the OP's position and knew something about ME was spooking the horses, I would have just left the area without having to be asked.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Kayty said:


> Nope, still not.
> Dressage riders will always only ever be prancing around on their 'sheshul fancy' horses which are always confined to a stable or a secured indoor arena with no distractions. PROVEN fact because someone said it on the internet, :


You are not correct with this! All Carl Hester's horses get turned out, they rode them out and about and, take them to an all weather gallop to give them a spin.

Unfortunately not all dressage people do this.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

TheAQHAGirl said:


> I did. But I saw that comment and got side tracked. Hehe.
> 
> Properly responding---I think it was pretty ridiculous that the OP had to move 35 meters so that their horses can handle the situation. Instead of putting an object aside, use it as a training tool to build off of. It bothers me that if they can't control their horses in a simple situation like that (just people standing near the rail) then how is it safe for them to be in the ring with other horses and riders?


Since none of us saw what actually happened we really have no clue as to how the horse was reacting to the buggy or if it even was a case of it being afraid of it. 
We also don't know what the layout of the arena was like - its more common in dressage for spectators not to be positioned close to the arena because they don't always have any sort of a fixed barrier around them
This was a dressage show not a rail class so there wouldn't have been other horses and riders in the arena
Other than at top shows dressage actually doesn't attract many spectators anyway - unless you know what's going its a bit boring actually
Its also very unusual for a judge to ask someone to move away - that isn't their job, even at small competitions they have a steward or 'scribe' that would do something like that
A rider might ask someone to move if they were worried their horse was going to spook at their buggy and end up jumping on someone or something else in a confined space but they have no authority to demand that person obeys - or leaves the site.
I also find it odd that a rider that's struggling with a spooky awkward horse can also be looking out across 30 to 90 meters of field and yell loud enough at a woman with a buggy for her to hear - I also find it odd that given the time frame in which all of that scenario was taking place in that the rider hadn't been asked to dismount and leave the arena so the competition could continue


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Kayty said:


> Nope, still not.
> Dressage riders will always only ever be prancing around on their 'sheshul fancy' horses which are always confined to a stable or a secured indoor arena with no distractions. PROVEN fact because someone said it on the internet, didn't you know?
> Therefore, I put it to you that our horses are not actually Dressage horses - they COULDN'T be because they cross train????:think:


It's not that people aren't reading, it's the attitude the dressage people are taking. That I'm so high and mighty that if someone or something is spooking my horse they must move because I'm not going to deal with it right before a test.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Even Olympic level horses are still horses at heart. Its generally a good idea to keep a safe distance. I am not sure what is so hard to understand about it...?? 

Its not because they are Dressage horses, it's because they are horses. 

If you're so against Dressage horses and how their owners shelter them from the trails, keep them in an arena all the time, and baby them what the h377 were you doing at a Dressage show anyway? Surely you're not a fan of the sport.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

SullysRider said:


> It's not that people aren't reading, it's the attitude the dressage people are taking. That I'm so high and mighty that if someone or something is spooking my horse they must move because I'm not going to deal with it right before a test.


NO NO NO!! that's is not it at all! (people are apparently under that impression because they have this preconceived notion that dressage people are stuck up.) It's not about not wanting to deal with it- its about the safety of the baby in the pram... In the event that something DOES happen, which occasionally stuff does- we are dealing with HORSES! It is a safer option to keep people at a safe distance- especially babies and children.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

I think how far away the OP was is more than enough of a safe distance away. It's not about distance, you're getting off topic. It's about the fact that the horse was "spooking" at the pram when she was so far away she was asked to leave. 

And on another note, you can like Dressage without liking the training practices.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

SullysRider said:


> It's not that people aren't reading, it's the attitude the dressage people are taking. That I'm so high and mighty that if someone or something is spooking my horse they must move because I'm not going to deal with it right before a test.


I don't see any of our dressage people saying that
What they (and others) are trying to say is that sometimes any horse can throw a hissy fit regardless of how much its been desensitized and the safest and most considerate thing to do is to move out of the way especially if you have a child sitting in a buggy that's at a perfect height for a hoof to land on them
Without seeing a video of what actually occurred we really don't know what was going on with the horse/rider but I somehow doubt that the horse would have even noticed them at that distance or that the rider had time to try to control her horse and still keep talking to the OP.
Even if a dressage horse doesn't go off its yard it still gets exposed to all the goings on in the barn - trash cans, wheelbarrows, getting washed down, getting clipped, all the usual stuff that's kept around a barn
And even if she did move so far away - so what once the episode was over they could have walked quietly back - if they were even interested to do that


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

jaydee said:


> I don't see any of our dressage people saying that
> What they (and others) are trying to say is that sometimes any horse can throw a hissy fit regardless of how much its been desensitized and the safest and most considerate thing to do is to move out of the way especially if you have a child sitting in a buggy that's at a perfect height for a hoof to land on them
> Without seeing a video of what actually occurred we really don't know what was going on with the horse/rider
> Once the episode was over they could have walked quietly back - if they were even interested to do that


If you go back and read some of their posts they say it is plenty ok to ask someone to move or leave if they are spooking their horse.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

SullysRider said:


> I think how far away the OP was is more than enough of a safe distance away. It's not about distance, you're getting off topic. It's about the fact that the horse was "spooking" at the pram when she was so far away she was asked to leave.
> 
> And on another note, you can like Dressage without liking the training practices.


Eh, I think there is more to the story regardless. 35 meters is far enough to be watching something in another ring. *My sense* is that out of frustration and embarrassment of having to move- there was/is some exaggeration going on. AND then something happened to warrant being asked to leave. I have been to my fair share of dressage shows- and _typically_ officiators have bigger things to focus on than throwing out some woman and her pram. 

Regardless- This thread has turned into a place where we all bash on dressage and how their silly little horses are never trained or desensitized. Which is untrue and ridiculous. When I was working at my old dressage stable- much to people's dismay- when we were starting a horse the first thing we did was call out "the cowboy" to work with horses on desensitizing and trust and natural horsemanship.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

SullysRider said:


> If you go back and read some of their posts they say it is plenty ok to ask someone to move or leave if they are spooking their horse.


 
It IS okay to ask someone to move if they're spooking your horse. Not because you are a crappy trainer and don't want to teach your horse to get over it- but because there is a time and a place for such a thing- and trying to teach your horse to get over it in the middle of a show ring surrounded by people, is endangering all of the people there.


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

ponypile said:


> For those on the side of the OP/the idea that it's ridiculous for a horse to be spooking at the pram (need to desensitize, train better, etc.)... have you really never had a horse just loose it's mind or be honestly terrified of something?


Yep and I had to show anyway. I do reined cowhorse. My 5 YO mare is still green in the show pen this year. The last two shows have been HUGE so our class has been at night. The facility we show at does not have lights in the main arena, so they have to bring in gas powered lights. They are big. They are loud. And they are bright. They cause shadows in the arena because of where they are placed. My mare DID NOT like them and was terrified of them. The first show she started backing up REALLY FAST when we started going into the show pen and only went forward with a little assistance from behind.  Once in the pen, I could feel her shaking and she was not listening, but I urged her on and we got through the reining pattern the best we could. Was not pretty, but oh well; we still got a score though! However, when the cow came out, she was a different horse and we got the best score we ever got.

The next show was also huge and we had to show under the lights again. I took her before our run and hung out by the lights and worked her a little on the ground around them. She was still nervous and we did not have a good run (she was extremely nervous in the reining portion & I lost focus on the cow and it got by me :evil. But the whole point was to get her listening to me; it will likely take a few more times, but we may not have to show under the lights for a while.

She was also freaked out by a pony at a play day. But again, she is still required to listen to me and work when I ask her. It's not pretty right now, but she's getting the idea that when I ask her to work, I take precedent over the scary object. It can be done (and is done all the time), but if others choose not to work that way, that's up to them. 

I work my horses mainly at home. There are little distratcitons there so when we go out, there are major distractions. It doesn't matter the type of show I do (I occasionally do other shows than reined cowhorse), my horses still need to listen to me.

I side with the OP. She was OK with moving at least twice (which appears to be to accommodate riders, not for safety per se) and accommodated the requests even after that, until it got way ridiculous and she felt her only option was to leave. I think that's pretty sad.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I really dislike the whole dressage people this and dressage people that. It's not a realistic generalization to say ALL dressage people do something that only a subsection do.

The moment of your test is NOT the time or place to try to school a horse on a new object.

I also assure you that all the desensitizing in the world means little if that horse decides something is a big deal. We all should know this. They're not machines. If some people have horses that become so broke they just stand there during whatever that's awesome but to say all horses should be like that isn't facing the reality that most horses won't.

It doesn't matter if a rider "should" do this or that if they're not or if its just not enough. Is it really preferable to have a horse freak out and run through people rather than ask someone to move because their feelings might get hurt?

What would have happened if no one told the OP to move the buggy but it spooked a horse and the buggy ended up trampled? You'd be blaming the rider!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

"If the rider thought it's horse might spook, he should have asked us to move! My safety should have been a priority!" I can hear it now... There is really no winning in this situation.


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Strawberry4Me said:


> Eh, I think there is more to the story regardless. 35 meters is far enough to be watching something in another ring. *My sense* is that out of frustration and embarrassment of having to move- there was/is some exaggeration going on. AND then something happened to warrant being asked to leave. I have been to my fair share of dressage shows- and _typically_ officiators have bigger things to focus on than throwing out some woman and her pram.
> 
> Regardless- This thread has turned into a place where we all bash on dressage and how their silly little horses are never trained or desensitized. Which is untrue and ridiculous. When I was working at my old dressage stable- much to people's dismay- when we were starting a horse the first thing we did was call out "the cowboy" to work with horses on desensitizing and trust and natural horsemanship.


Are you trying to convince yourself or others that there must have been something else going on?

It was the first dressage show I had been too. And I went because what little I have seen of dressage it looks to be a beautiful sport. I don't think for a second it's easy and the horses are all la di da. Also you learn from watching those that are better than you. 

Yes I was annoyed at what happened hence the title "rant" although I'm very much over it now, and to be honest I do sympathise with the last rider on the day. There is a post from me in here about what I think happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Liligirl said:


> Some people here have made great points as I feel better about being right in my annoyance.
> 
> However when I read this comment I think I know what has happened. Each time that a rider had asked me to move back they have further pushed the pram out of the general surroundings if the show. So by the time the 4th rider came out all the horse could see was a foreign black object against the flat green background of the grass.
> 
> ...


Found it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The fact is that no one really knows what was going on - its all just a guessing game
We don't know if they were novice horses or novice riders, we don't know if they were children or adults, we don't know if its was a training show or a higher level show (all we know that since the one rider was carrying a whip it can't have been an FEI show) and even though its been assumed that it was a WB we don't know that either, could have been any breed of horse if it was just a training show or a low level event
I don't think that anyone disagrees that its very important to do as much preparation work with a horse as you can before you take it anywhere
I think most of us agree that:
Horses are unpredictable
Horses have the potential to cause a lot of damage especially if in a restricted area
I have been involved in the organization of many shows and safety always came first and the competitors always ranked above the spectators as there was no admission charge so if anything was happening to disrupt the smooth running of the show or presenting a hazard in even a small way it had to be dealt with - if that meant offending a spectator then so be it.
While asking a horse to face up to its fears at a show is a good thing if its not going to turn into a risk for anyone else - the actual competition ring is not the place to do that - judges simply don't have to time to sit and wait for individual horses to decide that some object isn't going to eat them alive and the fastest way to get things running is to remove whatever it is that's causing the hold up
If a horse plays up in a UK show ring (not dressage) and isn't removed by the handler/rider then its asked to leave by the ring steward.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

This thread is going to go round and round and round again... I will leave with this last comment:

This was the OP's first dressage show, she CLEARLY knows the show etiquette, and we are all a bunch of stuck up DQ's for saying otherwise :rofl:


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Strawberry4Me said:


> This was the OP's first dressage show, she CLEARLY knows the show etiquette, and we are all a bunch of stuck up DQ's for saying otherwise :rofl:


Can you please explain how this is relevant to my original post? I have never said anything about anyone being stuck up. 

However I will admit that I have been rude in my replies to your comments Strawberry. For that I am sorry, I took my queue as the tone of your first post I felt was patronising. It also stated a few inaccuracies and points to which I had already replied to. 

I think I however will never attend another dressage show again just in case and will stick to watching snippets on Youtube (said with tongue in cheek)


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Strawberry4Me said:


> This thread is going to go round and round and round again... I will leave with this last comment:
> 
> This was the OP's first dressage show, she CLEARLY knows the show etiquette, and we are all a bunch of stuck up DQ's for saying otherwise :rofl:


And that just about sums up the whole thread/forum perfectly! ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Strawberry4Me said:


> This thread is going to go round and round and round again... I will leave with this last comment:
> 
> This was the OP's first dressage show, she CLEARLY knows the show etiquette, and* we are all a bunch of stuck up DQ's* for saying otherwise :rofl:


You certainly are not helping the "stuck up DQ's"image at all with your snide comments. To me your remarks and the way the are presented perpuates the image.

Please enlighten us-how far away from a dressage arena is appropriate? The OP started at 10 meters, was asked to move, so moved again…..then sued again…moved again-she is now at about 30 meters….then it was suggested she leave. Personally, I would think the initial 10 meters was enough. 

Dressage is probably the only shows I have not seen people up close to the ring. Every other disciple I have watched, folks are right up next to the ring. However, I don't go to PURE dressage shows. I tend to go to 3 day events. Last time I went to a dressage show-I watch from my car….honestly so that I could watch without the riders seeing the expression on my face watching women who were well over 200# in whose white breeches, doing a sitting trot. Not an image I want to see anytime soon again.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> What would have happened if no one told the OP to move the buggy but it spooked a horse and the buggy ended up trampled? You'd be blaming the rider!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If the buggy spooked a horse it would be going away from it not towards it!


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Foxhunter said:


> If the buggy spooked a horse it would be going away from it not towards it!


Don't know if you're familiar with spooky horses, but if they're spooking at the pram it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to think they could spook at something else into the pram
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> You certainly are not helping the "stuck up DQ's"image at all with your snide comments. To me your remarks and the way the are presented perpuates the image.
> 
> Please enlighten us-how far away from a dressage arena is appropriate? The OP started at 10 meters, was asked to move, so moved again…..then sued again…moved again-she is now at about 30 meters….then it was suggested she leave. Personally, I would think the initial 10 meters was enough.
> 
> Dressage is probably the only shows I have not seen people up close to the ring. Every other disciple I have watched, folks are right up next to the ring. However, I don't go to PURE dressage shows. I tend to go to 3 day events. Last time I went to a dressage show-*I watch from my car….honestly so that I could watch without the riders seeing the expression on my face watching women who were well over 200# in whose white breeches, doing a sitting trot. Not an image I want to see anytime soon again*.


Anyone gonna comment on this one? :shock:


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Don't know if you're familiar with spooky horses, but if they're spooking at the pram it doesn't take a stretch of the imagination to think they could spook at something else into the pram
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Based on this no pram or child, or anyone really should be near a horse because it might spook at something else and into the pram, child or you. Heck I could go for a walk down the street tomorrow and get hit by a drunk driver. Just saying kind of an invalid argument.


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## Liligirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Strawberry4Me said:


> Anyone gonna comment on this one? :shock:


I think that might be one of those comments you leave alone. 

I'm not 200 Pounds, well NZ speak 90 kgs (I think). But I still feel sorry for my horse, I know that I'm like a sack of potatoes!


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> You certainly are not helping the "stuck up DQ's"image at all with your snide comments. To me your remarks and the way the are presented perpuates the image.
> 
> Please enlighten us-how far away from a dressage arena is appropriate? The OP started at 10 meters, was asked to move, so moved again…..then sued again…moved again-she is now at about 30 meters….then it was suggested she leave. Personally, I would think the initial 10 meters was enough.
> 
> Dressage is probably the only shows I have not seen people up close to the ring. Every other disciple I have watched, folks are right up next to the ring. However, I don't go to PURE dressage shows. I tend to go to 3 day events. Last time I went to a dressage show-I watch from my car….honestly so that I could watch without the riders seeing the expression on my face watching women who were well over 200# in whose white breeches, doing a sitting trot. Not an image I want to see anytime soon again.


Use your inside voice, please. I really doubt that you are flawless in appearance so you shouldn't judge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Foxhunter said:


> If the buggy spooked a horse it would be going away from it not towards it!


It's really easy for a horse to spook at one thing then another then another and panic and before you know it is trampling the thing that set them off in the first place. I've seen it happen (okay I saw it at the racetrack but still it can happen!).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I am going to close this thread for review as everything that can be said has been said considering none of us other than the OP actually had a first hand view of what happened so its turned into an argument based on guess work that's getting a bit out of hand.


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