# Help with Canter



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay so apparently not riding for a month has turned me into mush. I am confused as to how to cue the canter.

I ride in a dressage saddle on a VERY forward horse so when I put my inside leg at the girth and my outside leg back to cue.. he only sped up at a crazy extended trot... no thank you!!!

Please help.. I felt safe in terms of not bouncing but yeah... not exactly what I wanted.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

I have to be quick, I would be holding him and keep the leg pressure on until he lopes then immediately release or shut him down every time he trots off and ask again.....there are two minds of thinking here, I've found the first option is good for a green horse and the second option is good for a seasoned horse (mine is seasoned and should lope from a stand still when I ask, if he trots I shut him down, he figures out pretty quick that its easier to lope of then to stop and start!)


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

When I first learned to canter, I always was told corners are easier to cue than the straight away. Kissing is a great cue, as well, so that might help?

edit: I also like what muppet girl has said. : )


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

Deschutes said:


> When I first learned to canter, I always was told corners are easier to cue than the straight away. Kissing is a great cue, as well, so that might help?


I second you, except for the kissing. I hardly ever rely on vocal cues. If you aren't using them solely, they are fine, but you DON'T want to be dependant on them. If you are in a show, and you start kissing away, you might also make the 15 other horses riding next to you in the warm-up canter... which will give you lots of dirty looks. Also, vocal noise draws attention to you. You don't want the judge staring you down and seeing every piece of your transition, especially if you slip up a bit. 

I would say something else ... but I would just be rewording exactly what Muppet said


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Well he is a very schooled horse. I think it's just my cue that is causing issues.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Hmmm adding to my first post, if my horse doesn't lope as soon as I cue, or he trots off, I shut him down, then I push his outside hip over to the inside, aggressively, as if to say 'hey! Move off my leg!' Then I prepare for the lope again, I tend to hold my inside leg on the girth (horse specific!) place my outside leg back behind the girth, kiss and as soon as he breaks into the lope I release my legs.....starting in a corner is helpful, but if he's schooled, he should pick up whichever lead you choose wherever you choose.....


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

It Sounds like your putting the outside leg back and hoping for the best. Make sure your holding him, but not pulling. You want to "bottle" that energy so he can switch gears. I like verbal cues (kissing for canter) to make extra clear. I'm not the kind of person who sounds like I'm making out with my significant other, just once to let the horse know something is changing then again while I give my cue (outside leg). 

Remember, holding. Not pulling! ;o)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Alright thank you for that advice  I think I'm pinching too much with my knees when i try to put my outside leg where it need to go


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Wait what do you mean by holding/pulling? I usually throw away contact when I go for the canter (awful habbit...)


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't show, so I didn't think of that xJumperx. Thanks for explaining. : )

I think what slidestop means, is you want to try to keep them from rushing off, like an extended half halt... I could be entirely wrong, though.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Maybe I should explain how I tried to cue.

Okay so I went into sitting trot. Half halted on the outside rein and with seat, then kept inside leg on girth and outside leg I slid really far back and put pressure on. I did throw away my lovely contact because that's my bad but anyway.. he got faster and faster and faster instead of going into canter. I slowed him down and tried again.. he ran into it. He's a schooled horse... I've cantered him before but this was about... a good month and a half ago.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

That's how my Lease owner is teaching me to cue with Titan. Sometimes he rushes into it, but like muppet girl said, we just shut down to a walk and try again. You may simply just need more contact instead of throwing it away, as he may be taking advantage of that loose reign to do whatever he wants.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

That's a good point.

I have another question. I know the outside leg cues the canter, but is that more a squeeze with both legs or just the one with a supporting inside leg?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Yes, hold him, don't pull on him or throw the reins at him, you want him 'contained' so you can get the lope, by throwing contact away at the beginning is to essentially allow all his energy to rush out the front door, essentially him trotting all fast and strung out. Before you lope, have him gathered and soft on your hands and legs, hold him while walking a few strides, squeeze your leg and ask, keep holding and squeezing until he lopes.....then release, that release gives him incentive to lope when asked


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> That's a good point.
> 
> I have another question. I know the outside leg cues the canter, but is that more a squeeze with both legs or just the one with a supporting inside leg?


I use my outside leg to push/squeeze that hip to the inside to get the correct leg, and I hold my inside leg on the girth to keep him forward and between my legs, because sometimes pushing the hip in and over while not holding with the inside leg creates and opening and the horse goes sideways instead of forward. Some horses you have to open the inside leg (young horses) to 'open the door' as such, but a schooled horse should pick up that lope cue without the inside leg opening right up. I prefer to hold my inside leg on so that the only door that's open is 'forward'.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Awsome, alright thank you for the help! Hopefully this week goes by a little smoother!


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Wait what do you mean by holding/pulling? I usually throw away contact when I go for the canter (awful habbit...)


Don't throw away your contact. Really think about holding him and "bottling" the energy so he will switch gears instead on letting him blow his energy out at the canter. The hold thing is pretty hard to explain, I'll try my best. Lol. Essentially its the in between of having your reins looped and pulling. Think about if someone holds your hand. If your walking shoulder to shoulder your arms are gonna be kind of floppy. Take a step out, now there is some tension but neither of you are pulling on each other. Another step and its going to feel more like pulling. Holding is more like that natural in between when your holding hands. Best I got for you.... Lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

SlideStop said:


> Don't throw away your contact. Really think about holding him and "bottling" the energy so he will switch gears instead on letting him blow his energy out at the canter. The hold thing is pretty hard to explain, I'll try my best. Lol. Essentially its the in between of having your reins looped and pulling. Think about if someone holds your hand. If your walking shoulder to shoulder your arms are gonna be kind of floppy. Take a step out, now there is some tension but neither of you are pulling on each other. Another step and its going to feel more like pulling. Holding is more like that natural in between when your holding hands. Best I got for you.... Lol!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh okay... so in other words having contact not yanking them backwards. Makes sense 

I know about the contact... haha I just get so overwhelmed that I automatically chicken wing and throw my hands forward. I think it's from riding greener horses....... cause I did not do that with my own horse when we cantered.

I appreciate all your help  Will update next week, and HOPEFULLY have vids/pics.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Yaaaay good luck. : D


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

If it's any consulation to you , Sky, I am currently having a similar issue with Z. I seem to have slid backward in my riding skilla (in some areas) like on the canter departs and end up with a horse that is tense and wants to trot off at a zoom. So, I know the frustration. This will tops on my list when I finally get a lesson on Easter Sunday when my trainer comes up from Calif.

I make all the mistakes mentioned, except throwing away the contact. Rather, I tend to take up too much contact and overwork the "get some bend" , which makes Z all fussy.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

By throwing the contact away suddenly, you can make some horses nervous. You are essentially leaving them on their own with little direction. 

Keep your contact, make sure you have a good working trot that is off the forehand, in front of your leg and with your seat. On a circle, leg yield out off your inside leg for a few strides, then cue for canter. 
Some horses will canter off the inside leg, others off the outside. It depends on how they have been trained. 
Also remember that your seat has a huge part in the canter cue. On my own horse, I find that I get the best strike off to weight my outside seat bone, 'lift' my inside seat bone forwards, and ask with both the inside leg on the girth, and outside leg slightly back. 
If you start shoving your outside leg back as far as it will go, you'll tip your upper body forward, pinch your knees, block your seat and **** the horse off by kicking it in the flank. Totally non-productive


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Kayty said:


> By throwing the contact away suddenly, you can make some horses nervous. You are essentially leaving them on their own with little direction.
> 
> If you start shoving your outside leg back as far as it will go, you'll tip your upper body forward, pinch your knees, block your seat and **** the horse off by kicking it in the flank. Totally non-productive


Yep... that's how it was!! Now I know better, lol!  

Thanks to everyone for the tips!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Riding lesson tomorrow.... fingers crossed!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

At the walk, have someone help you determine when his outside hoof touches the ground. Try saying "now" each time you think it is. Your spotter will let you know if you have it wrong. You need to practise this until you can do it unfailingly. When you ask the horse to strike off it helps the horse if you ask at the right time. You will learn by how his hips roll. When going to the right, you will focus on his left hip. When you feel it roll to it's highest, that is when you ask him to strike off. This not only helps him canter but get him on the correct lead. It may help to squeeze and release the left rein to signal a change of pace.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cowgal366 (Feb 5, 2013)

I have a question about canter but on my end not the horses. I ride A QH who goes straight into canter from trot no problem. 

I'm loose in walk and trot but i get stiff in canter but i don't completely relize it. I'm trying to improve and was wondering if anyone had any helpful ideas that can help me out. 

Thanks


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Saddlebag said:


> At the walk, have someone help you determine when his outside hoof touches the ground. Try saying "now" each time you think it is. Your spotter will let you know if you have it wrong. You need to practise this until you can do it unfailingly. When you ask the horse to strike off it helps the horse if you ask at the right time. You will learn by how his hips roll. *When going to the right, you will focus on his left hip. When you feel it roll to it's highest, that is when you ask him to strike off.* This not only helps him canter but get him on the correct lead. It may help to squeeze and release the left rein to signal a change of pace.


 
really? You are asking for a right lead, correct? so the step off foot is the left hind. But, when the hip is at it's highest point , at the walk, is when the horse is pushing through with body weight ON that leg. So, you cannot influence that leg to step forward and initiate the canter if it's already weighted. 
In the pelvis, the leg that carries the weight will cause that side of the pelvis to go higher. That's what the rider feels as sort of the top of the arc that each side of the horse goes through as it walks with its' back legs.

So, I guess what you must be saying is that although when you feel it at is't highest point (the "now" part of your counting excersize),its actually weighted, it's going to be unweighted in just a second, and if the rider shoots for that high point, and since we are always a little late, then as we put our leg on, the horse just finishes that step through and is ready to lift and place that leg under himself for the strikeoff.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> At the walk, have someone help you determine when his outside hoof touches the ground. Try saying "now" each time you think it is. Your spotter will let you know if you have it wrong. You need to practise this until you can do it unfailingly. When you ask the horse to strike off it helps the horse if you ask at the right time. You will learn by how his hips roll. When going to the right, you will focus on his left hip. When you feel it roll to it's highest, that is when you ask him to strike off. This not only helps him canter but get him on the correct lead. It may help to squeeze and release the left rein to signal a change of pace.


Oh I know when to cue.. I don't get the wrong lead and can feel the legs.. I was just confused about the cue.

~~

Riding lesson was a huge... pain in my back. I have never experienced so much back pain. I couldn't move the next day, and had to take a day off of work. 

Cantering went better but my instructor had it out for me. She was quite belligerent... eventhough I was waiting on her for my lesson (she was running late) and it'd been weeks since I had ridden with her...

Needless to say I'm trying a new barn, closer to where I'm at. I have a lesson Sunday morning.. 

My back still hurts and it's 4 days later  I've NEVER had back pain this bad.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Your back definitely shouldn't be that painful from riding :/ I'd steer clear of that coach, muscle soreness is understandable, but not severe back pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

Sky, what do you think happened at the lesson to cause that back pain? That sounds awful! The only time I get really bad back pain IS when we do a lot of canter, and transitions, because I tend to over cue with my leg behind the girth...instead of BARELY letting my leg touch her right behind the girth it's as if I'm tightening and almost twisting my HIPS to apply the cue! 

You're the first I've read who MAY be doing the same? Again, usually with many upward and downward transitions, walk to canter, canter to walk..TIGHT BACK!! A r g h h! 

Hope you're feeling better!! :0(


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Back2Horseback said:


> Sky, what do you think happened at the lesson to cause that back pain? That sounds awful! The only time I get really bad back pain IS when we do a lot of canter, and transitions, because I tend to over cue with my leg behind the girth...instead of BARELY letting my leg touch her right behind the girth it's as if I'm tightening and almost twisting my HIPS to apply the cue!
> 
> You're the first I've read who MAY be doing the same? Again, usually with many upward and downward transitions, walk to canter, canter to walk..TIGHT BACK!! A r g h h!
> 
> Hope you're feeling better!! :0(


Well I've cantered before, a lot, but seriously from my lower back all the way up it hurt. The horse wasn't heavy on my hands, I remember having a LOT of issues breathing during my lesson. I'm not sure what it was. My friend (also a coach) in the states believes I was holding tension in my back but even she was floored by how much pain I was in. Just not normal...

I'll give you all an update when it comes to my first lesson at the new barn. Fingers crossed it's a good match...


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay so had my lesson at the new barn 

Aside from ME sucking at keeping contact and sticking my toes out like a loon... it was amazing! I improved just from the start of the lesson and the best part is no back pain 

My mom came with to take videos so I haev a "starting point" and hopefully will improve from there. I even cantered without fear.. and it was a tiny fast canter, especially when I got him tracking all around the arena we bumped it up a notch to stretch him out.











And there are more videos there.

 Got the cue right too, but dang it my contact is so horrendous.... :/ I think my core is really weak or something.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Well I'm pleased things have improved!! Good for you! So how did you end up cueing him for your lope? Looks like you had no trouble there!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I slid my outside leg back slightly so my lower leg was behind the girth, supported with my inside leg and squeezed with both simultaneously. He reacted to it rather well  

My new instructor believes that the issue came from the type of horses I've been riding. Sky (my own horse) cantered on cue very well but since being in NZ my canter cueing has been an issue.

Thanks for the help everyone  I will work on my contact and toes.....


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

I think overall you look great, Sky! Very relaxed, at ease, a "natural"! :0) I had trouble hearing all of what was being said, but I liked the fact that there was so much feedback from the trainer! I hope she works out well for/with you! :0)


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Thank you Back2Horseback  I think she and I will get along great. Just need to work on continuing to be teachable (sometimes I can get a bit sassy especially when it comes to contact as it's really hard for me to understand)


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

Wow, I'm exactly the same way when it comes to having trouble understanding exactly HOW I AM supposed to accomplish whatever it is that I'm being asked to do! I never get sassy with the trainer, however, instead, I get so frustrated and insecure with my skills that I begin to get all "caught up in my head", worrying that whatever signal I'm sending the horse is going to damage her training, or, that I'm being unfair to the horse by sending "mixed" signals, thus I "shouldn't even be riding"! (these are the nutty thoughts that fleetingly run through my head, making more complicated lessons horrendous for me!):-(

Nonetheless, just thought it would help to know you aren't the only one to get confused with stuff...ESPECIALLY patterns of things. For example; "do two walk to canter/canter to walk transitions, and then, go ahead and change direction, while picking up a working trot halfway through the change..." I'll find I'm lost back at the canter transitions and have forgotten the rest!
**Really good thing that I'm NEVER, EVER going to show! Haha!!:wink:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

The sassiness emerges because everyone just says "cue to canter" but never explained HOW to cue... and I asked and got zip answer from previous instructors. This one actually verbally told me, physically showed me (on the ground) and talked me through it.

Love her! No sassiness from me :wink:


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## LoveDanceRide (Feb 23, 2013)

Deschutes said:


> When I first learned to canter, I always was told corners are easier to cue than the straight away. Kissing is a great cue, as well, so that might help?


WHOAH! I've always been taught that if I'm having trouble with picking up the canter, especially regarding picking up the correct lead, to ALWAYS ask for it in the corners! I find this works well because they're bending already around the turn and it's harder for them to run away on the corners. If your horse doesn't get the canter in the corner, either circle and keep circling, or go down the straight away and wait for the next corner. Don't let him run down the straight away, though. Slow his trot to a good working trot, the try the canter again at the next corner. Good luck!


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## JumperForLife (Feb 18, 2013)

Is this horse new to you? It seems like every horse I ride responds to a different canter cue just because they were all trained so differently. For example, some respond to outside leg, outside rein, while others respond to outside leg, inside rein, and still others respond to only outside leg. Food for thought.


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

JumperForLife said:


> Is this horse new to you? It seems like every horse I ride responds to a different canter cue just because they were all trained so differently. For example, some respond to outside leg, outside rein, while others respond to outside leg, inside rein, and still others respond to only outside leg. Food for thought.


I've found this to be absolutely true, as well, regarding the three horses I've ridden in lessons lately...all have been trained to cue to canter differently...!:shock:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

JumperForLife said:


> Is this horse new to you? It seems like every horse I ride responds to a different canter cue just because they were all trained so differently. For example, some respond to outside leg, outside rein, while others respond to outside leg, inside rein, and still others respond to only outside leg. Food for thought.


The one in the video is new.

The one I wrote the thread about I have cantered before without any issues or delays. It was just the last two lessons I was struggling.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

your mentioning that you get sassy sometimes with the teacher reminded me that I, too, used to get frustrated and sometimes sassy with my trainer, years ago. When I didn't understand, I would show my frustration too much in the tone of my voice, and in arguing. I even got so sassy once, way back in college, that my old French teacher threw me out of the classroom! Now that was a shock. But sometimes it takes one.

Looking good there. Don't be too hard on yourself with the contact issue. one thing at a time. right?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> your mentioning that you get sassy sometimes with the teacher reminded me that I, too, used to get frustrated and sometimes sassy with my trainer, years ago. When I didn't understand, I would show my frustration too much in the tone of my voice, and in arguing. I even got so sassy once, way back in college, that my old French teacher threw me out of the classroom! Now that was a shock. But sometimes it takes one.
> 
> Looking good there. Don't be too hard on yourself with the contact issue. one thing at a time. right?


Thanks Tinyliny  Yeah I am a bit hard on myself. I'm happy with my seat though. I'm not bouncing all over the place anymore! Woo!

Man iIve never gotten that sassy! Thrown out? I've only every been just a little bit but that rarely happens. Usually only when the instructor refuses to walk me through something.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

That teacher was a real Prig. the French Dept. head told me it had happened before. So, I got put into another class. I had been rude, but my apology was rebuffed. live and learn. it makes for a good story now that college is miles behind me.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

So... crazy update!

Apparently I was ready* for some lateral work. Ladies and gents, I did haunches in, haunches out, canter to halt transitions, halt to canter transitions, lots of trotting, lots of cantering, and apparently I'm going to try my hand at small cross rails next week.

I have never felt this confident! I'm just learning these lateral movements but the horse (who feels like a pony in comparison to Sky lol) is very schooled and ever so attentive. I was really proud of myself this weekend!

I need to get video.. will drag someone with next week as I went solo this time.


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

Isn't that just a feeling that puts you on top of the world like NOTHING ELSE, having an utterly successful lesson??!!

You DESERVE to feel amazing, you definitely WERE ready, and cued that horse to do just what it knew how to with the correct cures...To me, that is like fitting a key into the lock and hearing it turn!!! :0)

Soooo happy for you, Sky! Can't WAIT to see the footage from your next lesson! You go, woman! :wink:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Won't be on until the third. I'm nervous about my jumping lesson!


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Won't be on until the third. I'm nervous about my jumping lesson!


I'm betting you're gonna LOVE your jumping lesson!! No feeling in the world like jumping...even the tiny jumps used to begin one's training offer a real "sense" of what is to come.

Yay!!!


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## wild old thing (Jun 15, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Okay so apparently not riding for a month has turned me into mush. I am confused as to how to cue the canter.
> 
> I ride in a dressage saddle on a VERY forward horse so when I put my inside leg at the girth and my outside leg back to cue.. he only sped up at a crazy extended trot... no thank you!!!
> 
> Please help.. I felt safe in terms of not bouncing but yeah... not exactly what I wanted.


maybe you need to ease back with doing some trots and posting, maybe doing some bending, so he's alert to you. sit up tall and project energy and confidence. 

if you've done all the preliminary work and he's giving you grief:

you ask and he gives you the crazy fast trot, halt him immediately and set up again. don't let him get away with playing games. if he's a school horse, he knows what he's supposed to do. they get a little pushy when they sense you're not confident. 

I'm assuming you have someone else watching what you're doing and you're cueing him right. 

if he continues, back him up three steps. no more. immediately ask again. they don't like to back up. it's punishment. but this can't go on for an extended period of time. 

you mustnt get angry or frustrated, he'll know. breathe out. STAY RELAXED. that's really important. when you tense up it become a struggle. don't struggle. sit up, sit back, ask, expect, see it in your mind, expect it. if it becomes a struggle, let it go. do something else. no sense in fighting with a horse. they're bigger.


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## wild old thing (Jun 15, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> So... crazy update!
> 
> Apparently I was ready* for some lateral work. Ladies and gents, I did haunches in, haunches out, canter to halt transitions, halt to canter transitions, lots of trotting, lots of cantering, and apparently I'm going to try my hand at small cross rails next week.
> 
> ...



hahahahah...I should have read the entire thread! good for you!! Enjoy. Now I'll go back and read your progress.


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## wild old thing (Jun 15, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> The sassiness emerges because everyone just says "cue to canter" but never explained HOW to cue... and I asked and got zip answer from previous instructors. This one actually verbally told me, physically showed me (on the ground) and talked me through it.
> 
> Love her! No sassiness from me :wink:


I'm being taught to bend to the inside, when I can almost see a nostril ask - go - "canter"! it's all timing and personally I have enormous issues finding the exact moment. what makes it interesting is each horse has that moment to make the transition in a heartbeat of time. One horse I ride, if I don't ask EXACTLY so, he's going to give me the mad trot. and that can hurt!


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## wild old thing (Jun 15, 2012)

Back2Horseback said:


> I've found this to be absolutely true, as well, regarding the three horses I've ridden in lessons lately...all have been trained to cue to canter differently...!:shock:


so so true. one horse I love riding is **** near telepathic if we ride consistently. she knows my cues, maybe as fast as I think and start giving them. another horse I ride, you have to say "CANTER CANTER". if you don't, he's going to give, but he's not going to give in a one/two. it may take ten/eleven. :lol:

or more.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Here is my latest set of videos. No lateral work.. lots of trot and canter transitions in preperation for small cross rails (On my Best Days With Sky thread.)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/flatwork-166562/#post2097314


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