# Is this set up good for two horses?



## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Hi I was wondering if 200x80' paddock would be big enough for two horses to spend the night in and for winter. they would be going out to pasture in the daytime in summer. It's going to be fenced in with hot wire (maybe coated). would a 1 1/2 acre pasture be big enough for two horses to graze in the daytime?


And I was also wondering if fencing in ditches is legal in Manitoba, Canada and is it ok for the horses?
thanks.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I have always gone by the rule of 2 acres per horse for grazing. It will quickly become overgrazed if not managed properly. Can you split it so that they are on half for 30 days then on to the next section for 30 days? 
I keep 4 horses on a 2 acre dry lot during the winter. I turn them out for a few hours every day all year on a 7 acre pasture. I plan to split the pasture into 4 equal paddocks and do a 30 day rotation during the grass growing season. Just waiting to win the lottery so I can afford to add the extra fence :wink:
Until then I only turn them out for 3-4 hours a day then back to the dry lot.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

1/2 acre for two horses would be dirt very quickly around here. Your paddock is ok size for limited turnout. Fencing in ditches if the ditch isn't in your property is not legal, also I never heard of anyone digging a post hole in a ditch, seems odd.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

I meant they'd have 1.5 acres of pasrure(rotated). Is the paddock big enough for two horses to kick up their heels and run a bit? It's not for grazing. I want to use it as a dry lot and in winter. How big is the average paddock? The ditches are by our yard and I'm not sure if they're ON it. But they have nice grass in summer.

I just found this link:How to Size Your Horse's Paddock? - Smart Horse Keeping
It says if I want my horse to be able to run around, I should have a paddock about 30ft wide and 100 feet long.

Oh I forgot to add: They might also have another paddock (70x100ft) for a "grazing strip" just in case we run out of grass in the pastures so they can graze a few hours a day.

PS. I'm just planning a bit now, but some things might change a bit by summer.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

grazing size depends on your area and pasture. Here for unirrigated grass land you need 5 acres or more per horse. Irrigated it drops down to 1 or 2 acres per horse for grazing. We are hot and dry . 4 " of rain per year is average. 
You can put a horse out in a round pen for exercise. It depends on what you want. a 30 x 60 pen will give a horse room to walk, roll, and occassionaly kick up


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

A half acre is about what most boarding stables around here use for group turnout - up to 6 horses.

The private facility I'm at right now has 2 acre dry lots for the winter group turnout and quite a few acres of grazing that's rotated during summer. My horse on private turnout has a half acre to himself. I wouldn't do a dry lot less than a half acre, its enough for them to have a good run and I'd say safe for up to 3-4 horses that get along well.

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

200'x80' is fine as a dry lot for 2 horses. They'll have room to run around. We've put 3 in our 100'x200' ring with no problems.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> 200'x80' is fine as a dry lot for 2 horses. They'll have room to run around. We've put 3 in our 100'x200' ring with no problems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Cool! Thanks!


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

When I bring in large bales of hay, I put all 4 of mine in a smallish round pen. They all run around like crazy ladies, rolling and doing the bounce. It's plenty of room to run as long as it's in a circle. :lol:


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

stevenson said:


> grazing size depends on your area and pasture. Here for unirrigated grass land you need 5 acres or more per horse. Irrigated it drops down to 1 or 2 acres per horse for grazing. We are hot and dry . 4 " of rain per year is average.
> You can put a horse out in a round pen for exercise. It depends on what you want. a 30 x 60 pen will give a horse room to walk, roll, and occassionaly kick up


 We get lots of water in spring. Summer can get a bit dry though. But, we get short sudden downpours now and then.


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## Koolio (Apr 7, 2010)

Your dry lot sounds like it should be OK. For steady summer grazing you will need at least 3 well managed acres for 2 horses. This means with adequate rainfall and a long enough growing season, you should not have to feed hay from about the end of May until around mid-October. If you harrow, rotate and manage weeds, three acres will give you sustainable grazing. Count on buying and feeding hay for 7-8 months a year.

With 1 1/2 acres, expect half that amount of grazing time and to buy more hay. Managing a smaller space is trickier. If you have a dry lot and hay to feed, you can graze until the grass gets down to about 4" in length and then put the horses on the dry lot and switch to hay. This periodic change in feed could be hard on their systems though. You will also need to take them off the grazing area when it rains as their hooves can do as much damage to the grasses as overgrazing can. As an alternative, you could restrict grazing turnout to a few hours every day, and offer one meal of hay every evening or morning in the dry lot. Some horses won't touch the hay if the is grass available. 

As long as the ditches are clean, and there aren't any municipal rules against it, you could graze them a bit. I would only do it when I can supervise the horses. Do make sure the ditches are not sprayed for weeds and that there is no garbage. You will find the grass doesn't last very long, but it may give you a few hours of grazing once a week or so. Again, follow the 4" rule.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

The pasture would border half our yard. One part would be about 600'x40' and the other would be about 530'x50' + the 100'x70' grazing strip. Wouldnt that make almost two acres? thats an estimate. might be a little more when I measure it correctly when all this snow is gone. And 200'x80' is 1/3 acre, right?
Oh I wanted to add that I dont want the horses on the pasture 24/7. they'd be in their dry lot in the night time. Do I still need 3 acres?


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Oh I'd just like to add that I wanted to start summer grazing in the beggining of june. And end in the end of october.


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## Koolio (Apr 7, 2010)

June through October is a reasonable expectation for grazing, but you will still have to monitor the moisture levels and grass growth. Buy some extra hay so you have something else to feed if the grass doesn't keep up. I keep a least 50 bales on hand all summer for 4 horses. Sometimes I use them all, others I don't touch them until fall. There is no way to know exactly how much feed your space will supply because it changes. Fence off and use what you have, but manage it. For sustainability, just be sure not to over or under-graze. Having an alternative feed source available will help you do that.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Thanks. I wanted to fence in everything with two strands of high tensile wire. I was wondering if it is ok to have hi-tensile fencing in the two smaller paddocks(200x80' and 100x70')? thanks again.

PS I was wondering why undergrazing is bad?
Should I put them on the grass when it is 7" and take them off when it is 3"?


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## Koolio (Apr 7, 2010)

High tensile isn't my favourite, but if you are going to use it you need more than 2 strands. The problem with 2 strands is that it becomes too easy for a horse to get a foot through or under. You want enough strands to discourage the horse trying to eat under or between the strands. If they think they can fit any part of their bodies between the spaces that are there, they will try. Around here most high tensile fences are between 4 and 6 strands.

Under grazing means the grass gets long, stemmy and tough so the horses won't eat it. This can also encourage weed growth because the longer grass hides and shelters weeds. Mowing is actually good for the grass as it encourages healthy growth and should nip off the reproductive parts of the weeds. Horses are spot grazers and will eat some spots right down to themdirt and leave others untouched. An even pasture length discourages spot grazing by keeping an appealing growth more uniform.

Graze when the grass is at least 6-7" and pull them off when it's down to 3-4".


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Koolio said:


> High tensile isn't my favourite, but if you are going to use it you need more than 2 strands. The problem with 2 strands is that it becomes too easy for a horse to get a foot through or under. You want enough strands to discourage the horse trying to eat under or between the strands. If they think they can fit any part of their bodies between the spaces that are there, they will try. Around here most high tensile fences are between 4 and 6 strands.
> 
> Under grazing means the grass gets long, stemmy and tough so the horses won't eat it. This can also encourage weed growth because the longer grass hides and shelters weeds. Mowing is actually good for the grass as it encourages healthy growth and should nip off the reproductive parts of the weeds. Horses are spot grazers and will eat some spots right down to themdirt and leave others untouched. An even pasture length discourages spot grazing by keeping an appealing growth more uniform.
> 
> Graze when the grass is at least 6-7" and pull them off when it's down to 3-4".


It's going to be electric. Is it ok to have it in small areas?


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

I mean, it's going to be electric most of the time. so shouldnt two strands work?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When fencing off what your night paddock Two hundred feet isn't enough. The width is fine. What you have to keep in mind is if dogs start to chase them your horses need room to run. I am able to visualize the size as my riding ring is 80' x 120 the mental picture of another 80' isn't enough. Dogs can be persistant when chasing horses.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> When fencing off what your night paddock Two hundred feet isn't enough. The width is fine. What you have to keep in mind is if dogs start to chase them your horses need room to run. I am able to visualize the size as my riding ring is 80' x 120 the mental picture of another 80' isn't enough. Dogs can be persistant when chasing horses.


Well I could always add the 70'x100' paddock to the existing paddock. the length would be 270' then. My horse isnt scared of dogs since the people I got him from had a huge rottweiler mix so my horse grew up with dogs. I let my dog loose and he tried to scare Duke into flight but Duke would just try to kick him. well if I add the other paddock to the existing one would that be enough?
What size would you reccomend?


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

Not to argue with anyone at all. I read this and have to add my experiences. Two wire high tinsel works. I've had more issue with 5 wire. Which is now 4 wire. And soon to be two wire. I also have never seen horses leave grass 3 to 4" long. Ever. 
We let ours free graze in the summer, they will mow to the ground then move.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Phly said:


> Not to argue with anyone at all. I read this and have to add my experiences. Two wire high tinsel works. I've had more issue with 5 wire. Which is now 4 wire. And soon to be two wire. I also have never seen horses leave grass 3 to 4" long. Ever.
> We let ours free graze in the summer, they will mow to the ground then move.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Thanks I dont feel too good about 4-5 strands either.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Is the length of 270' long enough,then? Thanks


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A single dog isn't a problem but sometimes free roaming dogs form packs and chasing horses seems to become great sport. That's a better length.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> A single dog isn't a problem but sometimes free roaming dogs form packs and chasing horses seems to become great sport. That's a better length.


 Is there any way to keep them out of the paddock completely? we dont have many dogs around here(the closest village is two miles away).


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

If I stay with one horse and only got a pony to keep Duke company, would a length of 200' work? He WOULD have space to run for fun, wouldnt he?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Phly said:


> Not to argue with anyone at all. I read this and have to add my experiences. Two wire high tinsel works. I've had more issue with 5 wire. Which is now 4 wire. And soon to be two wire. I also have never seen horses leave grass 3 to 4" long. Ever.
> We let ours free graze in the summer, they will mow to the ground then move.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe the idea is to move the horses before they eat it all the way down. I rotate & cut my pastures & have no weedy or dead spots.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Honestly, for two horses you should be fine. We have 16(10 minis, 1 shetland FWIW) on 2.25 acres, and only about 1.75 is fenced, maybe a bit more. There is no grass, so they get hay. One pen is 48' x 72'. One is about an acre, one is about 1/2 and acre. Maybe 100' x 250'. Then we have a smaller pen, maybe 40' x 50'. The two larger ones get rotated between two groups, my two mares(paint and shetland) are one, and the geldings are one(appaloosa, Qh and haflinger). The stud colt get rotated in with my gelding every other day for some socialization, the others beat him up. The smaller pen(48' x 72') has anywhere from 4 to 6 minis in it, depending on who is turned out where. The smallest gets two minis maximum, and we rotate the two minis with my cousins colt and another colt(both go out separately). It is NOT ideal, but it works. Everybody has at least 12-14 hours of turnout, most have 24/7 turnout. The stud colt is possibly leaving, she's giving him away. Two, maybe four of the minis are for sale, and so is the haflinger. 

So it IS doable, though not ideal. Two of the minis and the stud were dumped on us. They belonged to a neighbor, and kept getting out. We caught them, walked them to their home, and the owners said "keep them or they'll be shot". So we kept them.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

If i kept two horses in the 1/3 acre paddock and hayed the 1 1/2 acres that I wanted to fence in before, would it work?


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> If i kept two horses in the 1/3 acre paddock and hayed the 1 1/2 acres that I wanted to fence in before, would it work?


 bump. 

PS IS there a way to keep the dogs out of the paddock? we dont have many dogs here and most of them leave horses alone.


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## Koolio (Apr 7, 2010)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> bump.
> 
> PS IS there a way to keep the dogs out of the paddock? we dont have many dogs here and most of them leave horses alone.


You could use sheep fencing, or no-climb fencing but you'd have to do the same to your gates as well.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Koolio said:


> You could use sheep fencing, or no-climb fencing but you'd have to do the same to your gates as well.


Well couldnt I just put a strand of electric on the bottom to shock the dogs?


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## Koolio (Apr 7, 2010)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> Well couldnt I just put a strand of electric on the bottom to shock the dogs?


Because dogs can either skirt under or jump over the electric strand.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Well do you think my horses would be happy without any pasture If i kept them on 1/3 acre? And can dogs go under or over the strands if I put them close together?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

As long as the horses can run the dogs will give up. Horses will turn on them and that's usually enough deterrent to send the city slickers home. Recently two young wolves approached my horses with the parents not far away. As one moved behind, the other stayed well off the horse's side. Suddenly the horse turned, charged a few strides then did a small rear and struck out at the wolf. That was enough and the wolves moved off. Did that horse look mean and ugly.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> As long as the horses can run the dogs will give up. Horses will turn on them and that's usually enough deterrent to send the city slickers home. Recently two young wolves approached my horses with the parents not far away. As one moved behind, the other stayed well off the horse's side. Suddenly the horse turned, charged a few strides then did a small rear and struck out at the wolf. That was enough and the wolves moved off. Did that horse look mean and ugly.


My dad isnt so sure about making the paddock longer, though. 200' looks pretty long to me. You sure it wont work? Two horses should be able to defend them selves right?

Would they be happy if They didnt get any grass and had hay or should they be able to graze for fun?
Thanks everyone.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

I mean the only dogs for two miles are our two dogs: an older Eskie who couldnt care less about horses and a mix breed who just likes to annoy horses without meaning any harm.
Wouldnt 200' work in this situation?


Sorry about bugging you guys so much about this.:-|


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Like I said, you should be fine. My horses goof and run around just fine in ALL the paddocks, even the smaller ones. Our horses have NO pasture, nothing. They get enough hay in the morning to keep them occupied until at least early to mid afternoon, then enough hay at night to keep them occupied until late at night(or early morning, if you prefer). We've never had colic issues, boredom issues, ulcer issues. Nothing. They sometimes go up to 6-7 hours without hay on days they are piglets and scarf it up, they do just fine.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

kassierae said:


> Like I said, you should be fine. My horses goof and run around just fine in ALL the paddocks, even the smaller ones. Our horses have NO pasture, nothing. They get enough hay in the morning to keep them occupied until at least early to mid afternoon, then enough hay at night to keep them occupied until late at night(or early morning, if you prefer). We've never had colic issues, boredom issues, ulcer issues. Nothing. They sometimes go up to 6-7 hours without hay on days they are piglets and scarf it up, they do just fine.


 Thanks kassierae. I think I'll put up a temporary electric fence so My horses can eat some grass for fun.

There is another problem though-mud. What should i do about it? There is alot of mud when it rains and when the snow melts. Right now 1/3 of the paddock is mud and manure, 1/2 is under water(lots and lots of snow this year), and the rest is dry. 

What should i do?


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

If you have that much of a drainage problem, then you might want to reconsider using that area as a paddock…especially since your spring rains haven't come yet.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Horse Poor said:


> If you have that much of a drainage problem, then you might want to reconsider using that area as a paddock.


 It's the closest to the barn and the water isnt usually that bad. we just had a lot of snow and usually there is half as much water and it goes away my the middle of may.is it possible to dig a trench around the paddock to catch the water?


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

We had a ditch dug along the edge of the property, and also a swale put in through the one paddock and down the driveway. We live on the middle of a very large hill(or small mountain, if you prefer), the property is basically a flatter spot before it hits the bottom. The water tends to run off the mountain and create a carp load of mud, so if needed we dig trenches to try and convince it to run off better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The gate area of the one paddock is almost always mud in spring, and there have been no issues concerning it. As long as they have an area to get out of the mud, at least for a little while, you should be fine. We've been on this property for 15 years or so, and never had problems. If you manage it properly you will be fine.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

kassierae said:


> We had a ditch dug along the edge of the property, and also a swale put in through the one paddock and down the driveway. We live on the middle of a very large hill(or small mountain, if you prefer), the property is basically a flatter spot before it hits the bottom. The water tends to run off the mountain and create a carp load of mud, so if needed we dig trenches to try and convince it to run off better. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The gate area of the one paddock is almost always mud in spring, and there have been no issues concerning it. As long as they have an area to get out of the mud, at least for a little while, you should be fine. We've been on this property for 15 years or so, and never had problems. If you manage it properly you will be fine.


 Thanks. I was thinking of fencing off a small part of the paddock -20'x20' or 30'x30' by the barn entrance. put sand on it and stall mats on top to keep them in there when it is muddy and let them out when the weather is nice. i thought maybe the grass would grow a little in the rest of the paddock then and they'd have some entertainment.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

You would do best to have to separate paddocks, to rotate every 30-60 days if possible. Or you could make them one bigger paddock, but have a sacrifice area similar to what you described. That way you will have grass, because after a few weeks with two horses a paddock that size will not have grass. Two horses and a small pony destroyed our grass within a few weeks. We do not have the means to rotate, and the grass just doesn't grow. We are on very rocky soil, with a slate bed underneath it.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

last year, my horse ate the grass down to the ground but now there is new grass shoots coming up again.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

..but you have to keep them off the grass until it comes in - those new shoots have to have the chance to grow. If you keep allowing the horses to graze it to the ground, you will find that less and less grass comes back every year replaced by more and more weeds until you have no pasture at all.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Horse Poor said:


> ..but you have to keep them off the grass until it comes in - those new shoots have to have the chance to grow. If you keep allowing the horses to graze it to the ground, you will find that less and less grass comes back every year replaced by more and more weeds until you have no pasture at all.


 Thanks I think I'll fence off a part.


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

if you have drainage issues I would suggest tile line/french drains like what they put around a house. dig a trench put in the pipe with some stone around it and route it to a spot you don't mind having mud

as far as dogs, i don't think I would worry about them if you havn't heard of packs of dogs in your area, the occasional dog or 2 will learn very quickly when it gets kicked by a horse

as far as how often to rotate between daytime pastures will completely depend upon how fast the grass is regrowing. someone previously mentioned 30 days seems like an awfully long time for regrowth. with the dairy cows I believe they are going into the pastures with 8-12" and coming out after they have eaten it down to about 4-6" and upstate NY I t hink the cows are back into a particular pasture on average 10-20days after the last time they grazed that particular piece of the pasture


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