# Shamrock Just Started Jumping (Critique Him Please.) :)



## wingana (Mar 15, 2012)

he's lovely!

looked like he got the right distance and he cleared it well - could be a little tighter in his front end with his knees but that will probably come with time  he's nice!


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

wingana said:


> he's lovely!
> 
> looked like he got the right distance and he cleared it well - could be a little tighter in his front end with his knees but that will probably come with time  he's nice!


I was wondering if you'd be able to tell the distance because of the angle, but if I had it any other way, I probably would've blocked the whole jump. And by tighter with his knees, you mean having them closer together, right? I hope that comes with time, when I filmed this it was only the second or third time I'd lunged him over a vertical. 

And thanks!  He's really turned out well to have been only a $500 horse!


----------



## wingana (Mar 15, 2012)

more of picking them up better..

like this is my old mare - she pretty much had perfect knees (or so i've been told - i dont jump)










see how her hooves are basically touching the back of her legs and her knees are pulled in as tight as possible?


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

wingana said:


> more of picking them up better..
> 
> like this is my old mare - she pretty much had perfect knees (or so i've been told - i dont jump)
> 
> ...


I think so, it's kind of hard to see with her coloring and the boots she's wearing, but I can where her legs are a lot tighter against her body. How much they need to pull their legs in doesn't depend on how big of a jump they're going over?


----------



## wingana (Mar 15, 2012)

well i'll find another pic of her  my coach liked to ride her with boots on.. dont know why she's only ever had 2 rails in 3 years lol

this is a pic of her doing 70cm - not much over 2'










her knees are nice and high but her fetlocks arent tucked away quite as much as they should be.


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

wingana said:


> well i'll find another pic of her  my coach liked to ride her with boots on.. dont know why she's only ever had 2 rails in 3 years lol
> 
> this is a pic of her doing 70cm - not much over 2'
> 
> ...


That picture was a lot easier to be able to tell! Haha, she's a cute jumper!
I definitely see what you mean and I'm sure that will come with time as we jump more and start to move the jumps higher, I certainly wouldn't even know how to train him to pick his feet up more.


----------



## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I think for just starting out, his developing form is superb. Very good talent there. He seems to already be getting an 'eye' for the correct spot.

As for teaching him to be tighter in the front (which most horses can get improved in this aspect) you can do gymnastic lines. They REALLY teach the horse to be neat with their legs and careful over the jump.

As for now, I would just practice getting him confident over the jumps. Don't scare him with too much too fast, and make sure you praise as much as possible. Make jumping fun for him! Practice with trot and canter poles so he gets good at being careful with his gaits. "Set up" poles before fences really help green jumpers develop an 'eye' and prevents them from rushing. Generally, the rule is a 'set up' pole should be placed 9' in front of the jump (usually 3 human steps, but you may need to adjust your own stride to make it 3' each step) you can also place another one after the jump, followed by a few trot/canter (depending what gait you're jumping at) poles to set him back into a good rhythm. 

My old trainer used to set up poles with standards on the sides in a course so the horse was doing 'course work' with ground poles at first the trot, then the canter. The horse got the whole experience of a jump course, without a difficult height. Slowly, she'd raise the height. Usually, in the first year a horse is jumping, you want to do 18"-2' with a LOT of trotting, poles, and lead changes when you canter. 

What all of this does is helps give your horse a solid foundation for jumping, and when you start jumping him seriously, he'll be confident and easy to ride.

Good luck!


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> I think for just starting out, his developing form is superb. Very good talent there. He seems to already be getting an 'eye' for the correct spot.
> 
> As for teaching him to be tighter in the front (which most horses can get improved in this aspect) you can do gymnastic lines. They REALLY teach the horse to be neat with their legs and careful over the jump.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I'll try that. We've been doing a gymnastics line out in the "jump field" at my barn. My trainer set it up as a trot in, canter out though. There's also one solo jump on the other side. I'm free to move the jumps however though as long as I set them back up for the trainer. 

In your opinion, what are some good gymnastics line set ups?


----------



## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Here's a good line example (others on this same channel):




It consists of a trot-in to a bounce, one stride to another bounce, then a long one stride to an oxer. 

I did one with my mare, consisting of 5 jumps all one stride, but with one short long stride, one long stride, and three 'average' one strides.





ALSO (and I think I share this WAY too much - BUT IT'S SO GOOD!)





Hope these help


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> Here's a good line example (others on this same channel):
> Jumping a Gymnastic Line on a Horse : Jumping 7 Fences on a Horse - YouTube
> It consists of a trot-in to a bounce, one stride to another bounce, then a long one stride to an oxer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the videos! I'm sure they will help a good bit. 
Are bounces more advanced for horses to do? They seem intimidating. Haha.
Also, how do you tell when your horse is ready for you to raise the jump? Right now with the gymnastics line we do, I start the crossrails out small and then once he starts just popping over them without any effort (kind of like just trotting over instead of jumping) I raise them.


----------



## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I'd say when they get near about perfect over that height. Their pace is consistent, they're confident, easy to maneuver, and it just becomes something they can sleep over. Don't go too fast, keep things simple, always end on a good note.


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> I'd say when they get near about perfect over that height. Their pace is consistent, they're confident, easy to maneuver, and it just becomes something they can sleep over. Don't go too fast, keep things simple, always end on a good note.


Awesome! Thanks for all of your help.


----------



## justjump (Jan 18, 2011)

He definitely has that greenie jump to him (as expected, not a bad thing at all!) but I think he's VERY cute! He looks like he liked jumping the fence, so I would just continue what your doing with him! Keep posting normal-speed vids of his progress though ! Very cute guy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

justjump said:


> He definitely has that greenie jump to him (as expected, not a bad thing at all!) but I think he's VERY cute! He looks like he liked jumping the fence, so I would just continue what your doing with him! Keep posting normal-speed vids of his progress though ! Very cute guy!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks so much!  Yeah, jumping is a total foreign concept to him. The man who sold him to me said he was used "primarily on the trails" and I put that in quotes because when I brought him home, he acted like he knew absolutely nothing, he wouldn't even walk with someone on his back (and yes, I broke all of the horse buying rules by not riding him beforehand). So he's come a long way since I got him in May.  

Here's a video of me jumping him normal speed:
Warning.. I'm not the best jumper, but I'm working on it. I hadn't jumped in like a year or two before I started working on jumping him.


----------



## yourcolorfuladdiction (Feb 19, 2012)

So in your video, the best thing I can suggest through the gymnastic is to keep your hands steady and down and your leg on him. You kind of have to let him figure it out a little bit. That's the best thing I can suggest at his stage of training. Just stay in two point. He already seems to be eager, just needs a little guidance.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Let me clarify a couple of things for you -

Good front end form over fences consists of a couple of different elements - 

First, the horse's forearm should be horizontal or above horizontal. Look at the photos of the paint mare and the horse in my avatar photo for examples. Next, it's best if the horse's forelegs are in exactly the same position, not uneven or with one knee below another. Third, the cannon bones should be folded back. Cannons ahead of the vertical is a fault known as "slapping out"; cannons at a right angle are acceptable, the avatar horse's are good and the paint mare's are spectacular. So, to simply - knees way up, even, cannons folded tightly back. 

In order to do this; a horse has to have the correct front end confo - well laid back shoulder and a forearm longer than the canon, so he has a lever to snap those forearms on takeoff. The horse also has to arrive at the fence at the proper pace, balance and distance to do so. Good made horses jump in good form no matter what, good training produces that result. Green horses struggle to jump well unless they are helped to the correct pace, balance and distance. 

Your green horse is making a typical green horse jump. He's overjumping because he doens't know how to use himself effeciently. He shows some good instincts for jumping, but is not jumping in particularly good form because, well, he's green. He seems to have a nice attitude and is athletic enough that there's no reason why he can't learn. But you will need to help him learn to snap his knees and round up over his fences, and lunging over single fences is not a terribly effective way to do it. 

You've been given some great advice by other posters about constructing gymnastics and exercises for him, I just want to add my .02.

I know it's counter intuitive, but a single jump is the *hardest* thing for a horse to jump well. Here's a long quote of mine from another post -

""Three jumps in a line" or gymnastics or grids are MUCH easier for the horse than a single fence. When a gymnastic is set correctly the horse doesn't have to adjust stride or see a distance; the way the exercise is designed sets them up for success and builds confidence. 

Conventional training involves lots of simple gymnastics and grids at low heights to teach the horse first, how and where to "wear" their fences safely, and later, to adjust their stride to jump from a difficult of wrong spot. Single fences and courses come much later as their flat work progreses as well. 

The normal progresion of training is cavaletti (poles on the ground only), then cavaletti followed by a single fence, cavaletti followed by a simple gymnastic, then more complex gymnastics, then single fences with placement rails to assist the horse, then lines and other related distances, then simple courses all kept fairly low as the horse builds confidence. The horse should also be jumping higher in a gymnastic or something with a fail safe distance than she is a single fence or course. Somewhere between single fences and courses you do a lot of work developing pace, three clear speeds at the canter, and adjusting pace and balance between fences before attempting courses. "

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-rid...ng-her-first-line-three-115452/#ixzz1pNXVeMqu


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

maura said:


> Let me clarify a couple of things for you -
> 
> Good front end form over fences consists of a couple of different elements -
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input!

We've been doing cavaletti for a while now because it has taken a while to build his confidence over jumping at all. So for months we've just been doing cavaletti, I just haven't really filmed any of it. When I took him to the jump field at our barn and took him over the gymnastics line, he was actually trying and seemed to be enjoying it, so that's where we've started. I have jumped him over a single crossrail/tiny vertical, which he really enjoys as well. 

I've been doing all kinds of different set ups with the line that's set up. They've remained the same distance apart as they are in the video, but I've changed heights, which ones were set up as crossrails, and which ones were cavaletti. I haven't set it up as anything other than crossrails, but should I try setting one of the jumps as a small vertical? Maybe 2 cavaletti and then one vertical at the end?

Also, would lunging him over a gymnastics line help at all?

I certainly haven't pushed us past our confidence levels, I don't want to ruin him and I don't want to let my discomfort discourage him if I don't feel 100% confident that we can do it.


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

yourcolorfuladdiction said:


> So in your video, the best thing I can suggest through the gymnastic is to keep your hands steady and down and your leg on him. You kind of have to let him figure it out a little bit. That's the best thing I can suggest at his stage of training. Just stay in two point. He already seems to be eager, just needs a little guidance.


Thanks for the advice!

I've been watching videos of horses doing gymnastics line and in one, you can hear the trainer say, "Leave her alone once you're in there because you can't do anything. Let her figure it out." So I guess that's kind of along the lines of what you're saying?


----------



## yourcolorfuladdiction (Feb 19, 2012)

sarahkgamble said:


> Thanks for the advice!
> 
> I've been watching videos of horses doing gymnastics line and in one, you can hear the trainer say, "Leave her alone once you're in there because you can't do anything. Let her figure it out." So I guess that's kind of along the lines of what you're saying?


Exactly, I noticed your hands coming up a few times in the gymnastic, which could actually start backing him off to jumps in the long run. So really leaving him alone is the best option, just be very supportive with your leg and your upper body (shoulders back, eyes up). The nice thing about not putting the jumps up too quickly is that if he gets into "trouble" he can always stumble over them and "figure it out" because the last thing you want to do is pull a horse out of a line and teach them to run out. So enjoy the little jumps, I always bring my pony (a solid 3'3" jumper who dabbles at 3'6") back down to cross rails and low verticals when I'm trying to teach her something new or challenge her (you know that whole: beep beep nothing's happening.... pony's asleep at the wheel).

We've had days where she's been fighting me like crazy over the big jumps and I'll set up 5 or 6 jumps in a row that are all 2'-2-6" with trot poles in front, she'll rush and trip through the trot poles and try to canter over the last two, throw herself over the first jump, bunny hop over the second and probably knock it over, take a big stride to three, have to shorten her stride and cat her way over four, and finally manage to make a pretty jump over five, and six if it is there. And I just sit there in two point with my leg on and my hands down on her neck and pretend the world is peachy. But because they're little jumps for her, it's no big deal that we went "bowling for dollars" through there because the point of the exercise got through and the next time we come through she backs off, listens, and gets her striding and stops fighting (redheads, always have to prove them wrong lol). But sometimes you just have to let them figure it out the hard way without muscling them, or injuring them (okay so she may have a little paint on her hoof but no worse for wear). Granted if the gymnastic were at her limit, ranging from 3' to 3'6" I couldn't do something like that, I'd have to be active, I'd have to hold her back through the poles then leg on over the first jump so that we don't crash and burn and get hurt.

But when they're little, and can be stepped over at the walk, there's no harm in letting them figure it out without getting in their way (it's very easy to confuse a young horse into messing up).


----------



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

yourcolorfuladdiction said:


> Exactly, I noticed your hands coming up a few times in the gymnastic, which could actually start backing him off to jumps in the long run. So really leaving him alone is the best option, just be very supportive with your leg and your upper body (shoulders back, eyes up). The nice thing about not putting the jumps up too quickly is that if he gets into "trouble" he can always stumble over them and "figure it out" because the last thing you want to do is pull a horse out of a line and teach them to run out. So enjoy the little jumps, I always bring my pony (a solid 3'3" jumper who dabbles at 3'6") back down to cross rails and low verticals when I'm trying to teach her something new or challenge her (you know that whole: beep beep nothing's happening.... pony's asleep at the wheel).
> 
> We've had days where she's been fighting me like crazy over the big jumps and I'll set up 5 or 6 jumps in a row that are all 2'-2-6" with trot poles in front, she'll rush and trip through the trot poles and try to canter over the last two, throw herself over the first jump, bunny hop over the second and probably knock it over, take a big stride to three, have to shorten her stride and cat her way over four, and finally manage to make a pretty jump over five, and six if it is there. And I just sit there in two point with my leg on and my hands down on her neck and pretend the world is peachy. But because they're little jumps for her, it's no big deal that we went "bowling for dollars" through there because the point of the exercise got through and the next time we come through she backs off, listens, and gets her striding and stops fighting (redheads, always have to prove them wrong lol). But sometimes you just have to let them figure it out the hard way without muscling them, or injuring them (okay so she may have a little paint on her hoof but no worse for wear). Granted if the gymnastic were at her limit, ranging from 3' to 3'6" I couldn't do something like that, I'd have to be active, I'd have to hold her back through the poles then leg on over the first jump so that we don't crash and burn and get hurt.
> 
> But when they're little, and can be stepped over at the walk, there's no harm in letting them figure it out without getting in their way (it's very easy to confuse a young horse into messing up).


Thanks again!

Yeah, I've said before that I haven't jumped in over a year and before that, due to having to switch barns a couple of times, didn't get a good solid jumping foundation myself. So I'm definitely not perfect, but I've noticed and I'm working on it. After watching myself on video and in stills, I notice that I stand up, but don't necessarily get in 2 point.. so the last time I jumped him, I approached in 2 point and stayed there the whole time so I knew how it felt, and then tried to mimick it from then on. It certainly worked, I noticed a difference anyways. 

They're definitely small to the point where he can walk over them fine, even if I do a vertical, it's small enough to where he can just step over it. 

Thanks for explaining your process with your pony! It makes sense, I'll definitely be doing that with my boy!


----------



## yourcolorfuladdiction (Feb 19, 2012)

You're welcome, I'm glad it helped


----------



## 4HCountryGirl (Aug 31, 2011)

He's lovely.


----------

