# Teaching a horse to jump not run through jumps?



## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

I am going to watch this thread very carefully. I am of no help whatsoever, I haven't started jump training my horse yet. But I know I am going to have exactly the same problem. My horse will also be thinking why go over? I Know I can go Through!


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

ya cause I would hate to some how "lock" the poles in place because I dont want him getting injured thinking he can just plow through them and then fall on his head .. lol...there has got to be another way..lazy ****** I have!


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## Romantic Lyric (Dec 31, 2009)

Right before the jump, smack him on the rump with your crop. HARD. Be ready for him to hop over it like a bunny rabbit. The next time he should jump it. If he doesn't, rinse and repeat.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm curious as to what type of poles you're using or how you're building your jumps? If you have proper heavy jump poles or lanscape timbers, build a pyramid of them on the ground and start trotting him back and forth over that. Then build a bigger pyramid of poles, three poles for the base, then two, then one.

When you start using a rail off the ground, make sure there's something between the rail and the ground to give the jump some substance, also make sure your using a ground rail. 

Running through a jump built with regular jump poles or even landscape timbers should hurt enough to give him the incentive to jump cleanly and well next time. 

What type of horse, and what do you usually do with him? Do you have enough experience jumping that your sure you're off his back, off his mouth and allowing him to jump?


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

RomanticLyric said:


> Right before the jump, smack him on the rump with your crop. HARD. Be ready for him to hop over it like a bunny rabbit. The next time he should jump it. If he doesn't, rinse and repeat.


*Personally I do not like this suggestion. Firstly, I would have liked more detail in your post. What is your riding/jumping experiance, no beginner should be teaching a horse to jump, it can be down right dangerous. Secondly, what type of polls are you using? If you are using little plastic pipes then your horse is just going to get use to it and soon discover it doesn't hurt. So using wooden polls works great! *


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## Romantic Lyric (Dec 31, 2009)

I took the words "he's very capable of jumping" to mean that the horse is trained to jump. If he is, and he's just choosing to go through the jumps, he's probably just being lazy, which is why I advised using a crop. I've never met a green horse that would go through jumps. In my experience, they all leap over obstacles like they've got teeth.

I agree that the type of jumps she's using can be taken into consideration. If she is using PVC pipe, it probably doesn't hurt the horse when he runs through it, however, if she replaces the PVC with solid wooden poles (that's assuming she can get her hands on them), that may only fix the problem under certain circumstances. If she switches back to PVC poles or goes to a competition where they use PVC poles, then her horse could go right back to crashing through them. The crop, in my mind, IF used properly, will tell the horse "I don't care under what circumstances we are jumping, you must always go over, not through the jump."


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

sorry this is sort of off topic, but do some competitions use pvc for jumps ?! scary =/


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## Romantic Lyric (Dec 31, 2009)

All the hunter shows I've been to do. Granted they aren't A shows, but they aren't "fun shows" either. They use wooden ones for the jumpers.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

I train all my own horses and a few outside horses so I am not green..haha..my horse is green to jump however, by capable of jumping I mean hes young and able to jump without issues, hes just lazy...haha..I have been setting them up as someone mentioned already..I tried really low cross rails (wood) with a pole on the ground to encourage him to hop over and no..he just plows through them. Then I thought well once he learns he can just run through it, he is just not going to jump because thats too much work! I am wondering what I am doing wrong or if I just have a smart, lazy horse. I should also mention I am not riding, I am just lunging him over them. Hes my show gelding, hes 15.3, 6 yrs old (will be 7 in May) and hes a bay overo paint. Hes a registered paint but is heavier boned, hes weighs about 1300-1400 pounds. I dont think it would affect his jumping ability for low jumping which is what I wanted to try with him, I want to do some english showing this summer. (I am a western rider) I know the english disipline as well as I teach lessons for both english and western.

Thanks!


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

That sounds bizarre to me. I can't imagine a horse banging his shins on a wooden pole and not making a better effort the next time. What happen if he encounters a log on the trail? Will he jump then?

The laziest old school horse I ever had could trot a two foot vertical - not jump, trot, picking up one foreleg at a time, and not rub a hair on his body - that makes some kind of sense to me. But repeatedly crashing through and banging his legs? No, doesn't make sense. At the very least, he lacks the self preservation instinct that makes for a safe jumper. 

I'd consider getting the vet to take a look at him next time he's out for routine work and see if the horse has some sort of physical limitation. Other than that, I'd hold off -- this sounds like a potentially dangerous situation.


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## Romantic Lyric (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm going to have to go with Maura on this one after you've described the situation more fully. It sounds like he's got issues.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

No he doesnt have "issues", (mental or physical) I was wondering what could be done to help him understand, but thanks anyways.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Let me explain further -

Horses don't really need to be "taught" to jump; they know how on their own. If they're galloping in a field and there's a log in their way, they jump it, no problem. It's a natural physical activity to them. 

They do need to be taught or conditioned to jump carrying the weight of a rider, and to jump from certain gaits, or to jump in a certain form or style. Jumping a course is a more advanced skill that the horse needs to be built up to gradually. 

But "taught" to jump a pyramid of poles on the ground? No. Most green horses do it the first time, no problem, usually acting as if it's on fire. They need to be taught to do it calmly and in stride, yeah, but just to negotiate the obstacle? No. Willing to continue to bang their shins and trip rather than pick up their forelegs? Something's not right there.

Either the horse has a physical limitation that keeps him from doing what all horses will do naturally on their own; or his response to pain stimuli is so dulled that he's really not safe to jump. Whether or not that's an "issue" is not my call.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

This is the first time hes ever seen a jump, so how he has issues I am not sure? We live out on the prairies so no logs to jump out this way, just ditches. That "most" green horses do it the first time is crap, lots of younger green undersaddle horses plow through it, Ive seen it. He doesnt trip going through it, he just knows that he can knock them over so he doesnt understand what I want. Im not looking to show jump at high levels or do this as a disipline, its only for fun and maybe try and show him this year in low level for something different. My question wasnt about my horse having issues, because he doesnt, it was about ideas on how to help him. If you dont have an answer, dont grasp at straws. Thank you. Funny how we blame the horse when it could be me?


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Maybe he needs something a bit more solid to see it better? instead of poles? something to try anyway.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Maybe you need to sharpen your cues? did you try riding him and jumping?


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> Funny how we blame the horse when it could be me?


Funny that you are willing to ignore the fact that your horse is continually and willingly causing damage to his shins and not bothering to think of a physical problem. You asked for input and you got it. Just because it's not what you wanted to hear doesn't mean it's not worthwhile advice.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Maybe he needs something a bit more solid to see it better? instead of poles? something to try anyway.


Thank you.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> Funny that you are willing to ignore the fact that your horse is continually and willingly causing damage to his shins and not bothering to think of a physical problem. You asked for input and you got it. Just because it's not what you wanted to hear doesn't mean it's not worthwhile advice.


How am I ignoring the fact that he is continually and willingly causing damage to his shins? Wouldnt that be not asking for ideas? ..lol 
I asked input on *HOW TO GET HIM TO JUMP, NOT RUN THROUGH JUMPS.* Not about my horses ability, soundness, or him having issues. Thanks for wasting your time.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Maybe you need to sharpen your cues? did you try riding him and jumping?


I havent tried riding him over them no, I wanted to see how he would do on the ground before going undersaddle. He can w/t/c poles on the ground no problem, he doesnt hit them at all. It has to be me, its not him...he just doesnt understand how much fun jumping can be! or not..lol


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

paint gurl 23 said:


> How am I ignoring the fact that he is continually and willingly causing damage to his shins? Wouldnt that be not asking for ideas? ..lol
> I asked input on *HOW TO GET HIM TO JUMP, NOT RUN THROUGH JUMPS.* Not about my horses ability, soundness, or him having issues. Thanks for wasting your time.


Your remark was unnecessary. The problem may be in your approach to his training or his physical condition/ability. Videos would be a huge help.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

very unhelpful information, what a waste of time.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Imagine how the people who posted in response trying to be helpful feel....


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Paint Gurl, you just seem to want to hear a quick. miraculous, fix that leads to a light bulb going off in your head saying "OH! that's what needs to happen" 

Link a video so that the membership can see what is going on. 

You have given no feedback except to be obnoxious about posts that you don't agree with.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> How am I ignoring the fact that he is continually and willingly causing damage to his shins? Wouldnt that be not asking for ideas? ..lol
> I asked input on *HOW TO GET HIM TO JUMP, NOT RUN THROUGH JUMPS.* Not about my horses ability, soundness, or him having issues. Thanks for wasting your time.


You are ignoring the fact that there could possibly be an underlying reason why he isn't jumping them. It is not normal for horses to continually run through jumps, whether you want to believe it or not. They will jump it, maybe accidentally knocking it over, but jump nonetheless, or the will run around the jump. It seems from your posts that your horse is doing neither.


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## Hali (Jun 17, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> This is the first time hes ever seen a jump, so how he has issues I am not sure?


Just curious, not picking but...

In your OP you state that he is capable of jumping, and then in this post you mention that this is the first time he's ever seen a jump?

If it is true that this is the FIRST time he's ever seen a jump WITH a rider, then that will make a difference in how you approach his training. He simply might not understand what is being asked of him.

I think clarifying what you want to acheive will get you some more constuctive input.


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## ponyybearr (Jan 28, 2010)

RomanticLyric said:


> Right before the jump, smack him on the rump with your crop. HARD. Be ready for him to hop over it like a bunny rabbit. The next time he should jump it. If he doesn't, rinse and repeat.


I am not a fan of this post. to me, smaking ur horse b4 the jumps will make it seem like jumping is a bad thing...and he/she wont want to jump even more than b4. u need to make jumping a happy experence for the ones tht dont want to do it, or dont quite understand it.

Now, i would like to know wat kind of poles u r using...if they r plastic poles, then when ur horse hits them it wont "hurt/shock" them and they wont learn to pick up their feet. you need to make sure u have sanded, wooden poles. make sure they wont splintter your horse when they hit them tho! Once you have the wooden poles, i would suggest setting up a bounce of two or three jumps. make them low and move them up when u feel ur both ready. bounces r really good for teaching your horse to lift themself, rock back on there haunches, and, if they dont pick up their feet, they're gonna have a big problem getting over the second jump, therefore, they will forever pick up their feet after tht. now, it wont fix the problem after one time doing a bounce or something like it, it could take a few days or even a few months b4 ur horse actually understand they need to jump everything. 

Another thing u really didnt clarify is this:
Is your horse hitting the jumps with his front end? or his back end? or is he just not even picking up his feet? if its his front end he's hitting the poles with, then its his fault and u do need to work on him picking up his feet. BUT, if your horse is hitting everything with his back legs...its most likey the riders fault. horses rarely knock poles with their back feet. the cause of them doing this is the rider sitting back too early. its a challenge for a horse to get over a jump if the rider isnt correctly going into the 2point position.

I really hope this helped!! Just ask if u need anymore advice!


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## Romantic Lyric (Dec 31, 2009)

I made that post under the impression that she was riding a trained horse "fully capable of jumping" but just being lazy. And yes, in that case, I would still fully recommend that approach.


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## SeWHC (Jul 1, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> How am I ignoring the fact that he is continually and willingly causing damage to his shins? Wouldnt that be not asking for ideas? ..lol
> I asked input on *HOW TO GET HIM TO JUMP, NOT RUN THROUGH JUMPS.* Not about my horses ability, soundness, or him having issues. Thanks for wasting your time.



This is a very bizarre thread. 

You can't _make_ a horse do anything really... he weighs 8x as much as you do, and could kill you if he wanted. You can't make him pick up his feet, short of rigging the jump to electrocute him every time he plows through (NO, I'm not suggesting this..... its the most extreme thing I can think of). 
The person you quoted does have a point, if the horse is unsound, blind whatever, that would be a serious reason as to why he won't jump them. If he's got issues, thats a reason why he wouldn't jump. 

That poster was 100% spot on in her questioning. 

It scares me sometimes when people say they are trainers and then don't take these things into consideration.


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## SeWHC (Jul 1, 2009)

I get the feeling that maybe we're talking about "jumps" that aren't made right or are actual jumps. A normal jump with a regular standard and jump cups and poles would be difficult and painful to plow through over and over and over. It would be basic instinct to hop over to avoid the pain of hitting the poles. 

What kind of jumps are we talking about here? like, a broom on some chairs kind of thing? Things like that are too thin and hard for horses to see. If they are regular standards with nice bright poles, then there must be some other issue with the horse.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

> It scares me sometimes when people say they are trainers and then don't take these things into consideration.


AGREED.

Ahhh the internet :?


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## ponyybearr (Jan 28, 2010)

Okay, well I guess everyone has their own oppinion on how to teach a horse to do something. Now I do see the difference if it was a horse who has been jumping for a while and just started getting lazy. But for the greener horses, I like to make it a happy experience.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

SeWHC, 

That was one of the first things I asked. OP *said* she was using standard wooden poles, which greatly influenced my subsequent answers. 

Also, as a side note, the OP hasn't been back to this thread in quite some time.


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## mkyacrm (Jan 31, 2010)

I would suggest using giving him something big to jump, not neccessarily high but sturdy. I have a draft that does the same, one time she over jumped by two feet and now she just plows them. So I set up barrels, laying down so its only about two feet, putting boots on would be an option, theyd protect them since its barrels, but normally you wouldnt cause otherwise theyll just plow them more cause they wont feel it.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

mkyacrm said:


> I would suggest using giving him something big to jump, not neccessarily high but sturdy. I have a draft that does the same, one time she over jumped by two feet and now she just plows them. So I set up barrels, laying down so its only about two feet, putting boots on would be an option, theyd protect them since its barrels, but normally you wouldnt cause otherwise theyll just plow them more cause they wont feel it.


Thank you! Im glad im not the only one


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Letting him plow into something isn't going to solve your problem...you already did that with the poles and it didn't seem to phase him. Insanity is defined as doing the exact same thing every time and expecting a different result...In this case I feel that it applies. When your horse does not act like a normal horse you first need to rule out physical problems. He might have bad depth perception, he might not see shadow very well, he might not be able to round his back, etc etc etc. If and only IF you get him 100% vetted sound of mind and body then you can address this as a training issue. 

In the case that he is 100% sound I would send him to a trainer that has more experience with these issues. This is not going to be a quick fix and if you keep making him jump huge sturdy obstacles you are going to at the very least mentally scar him about jumping and at worse cause him to severely injure those delicate legs or even fall and break his neck. As a professional and as a human being I cannot sit here and condone forcing him to trip/fall/fumble his way through obstacles just because you decided that your horse absolutely has to jump.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> Letting him plow into something isn't going to solve your problem...you already did that with the poles and it didn't seem to phase him. Insanity is defined as doing the exact same thing every time and expecting a different result...In this case I feel that it applies. When your horse does not act like a normal horse you first need to rule out physical problems. He might have bad depth perception, he might not see shadow very well, he might not be able to round his back, etc etc etc. If and only IF you get him 100% vetted sound of mind and body then you can address this as a training issue.
> 
> In the case that he is 100% sound I would send him to a trainer that has more experience with these issues. This is not going to be a quick fix and if you keep making him jump huge sturdy obstacles you are going to at the very least mentally scar him about jumping and at worse cause him to severely injure those delicate legs or even fall and break his neck. As a professional and as a human being I cannot sit here and condone forcing him to trip/fall/fumble his way through obstacles just because you decided that your horse absolutely has to jump.


Thanks tips!


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