# Elbow bend and the darn stomach that makes it harder!!



## Idlepastures (Sep 5, 2011)

I ride western, and am completely and totally foreign to anything english )other than I can not imagine having the balance for it(. However, I see elbows bent in every one of those pictures. So maybe I just dont get it?


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

I am in no way an plus sized ruder but hope to help you feel better cause I do the same thing! I tend to brace my arms or not have enough bend. I keep trying to tell myself, relax breath with the reins, horses movement...but for years I keep coming back to this issue! Even today while riding I was frustrated with how braced they where!
Hope this helps!


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

_Idle, sorry I meant the correct line from bit to elbow... The elbow should be elastic and able to travel with the contact (us confusing English goers haha!) and the way it can do this is have a correct 90 degree angle so it can absorb movement etc. I have a really bad habit of feeling my hands and elbow are higher/bent but they're not correct. 
_


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## Idlepastures (Sep 5, 2011)

See...now I'm just more confused . 

Ride western. You keep your hands down all the time. Its all good. And its easier for plus sized riders like me ****.


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

Idle, I hear ya! I've never tried western before... love my dressage a bit too much... though can't school my horse correctly (not that I'd want to at her current weight/fitness level) if I can't create the right line from bit to elbow cos I'm bracing! 

Klassic, what do you mean breathe with the reins? I know I'm hand orientated, I'm trying to lighten my hands - you can see the muscles when trotting in my lower arm tense up, really trying to eradicate that issue, but I do get tense when Honey tries to take off into a faster trot/wobble canter whenever I do completely soften - need to borrow Aire's big girl knickers you can find on the forum lately and grow some brass parts to wear down there hahahah! :wink:

I've tried a fair bit...
- riding Honey on a loose rein at the trot: ends up with her shooting off, I send a half halt and try to slow my posting to bring her back, she takes next corner of our "arena" as a "canter preparation" (this mare is yet to learn cantering correctly again since our accident in 09 so I don't know why she's being evasive and zoom zoomy)... and I cave and take the reins back to where I feel comfortable, trot rebalances and Honey relaxes.
- riding Honey on a shorter rein that enables belly out of the way/hands higher: horse now is angry, get off face haha. (she's a sweetheart really, but she had a rough past with her mouth)
- riding Honey on rein that is comfortable for both of us: problem in first post, inconsistency in keeping hands higher, to create elbow bend, allows inconsistencies to form in tempo of trot as I'm trying to sort the **** hands the speed goes up and down!

Seriously Idle, after writing all that up, I'm starting to think switching to western might not be such a bad idea  :lol:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, the pictures get better as they go along. There's a bunch of things you might try to help build this into your muscle memory. Because you "have" it at the walk but loose it when trotting or more, right? So you just need to work on building that muscle memory. And really, all of riding is doing just that. If you learned how to post, how to keep your foot in the stirrup , how to keep you chin up, how to hold the rein, etc, you can build this , too.

One thing I see is that when you are in the upmost part of your post, your leg is nearly straight. I would consider shorteingin your stirrup just one notch. Your shape and your horse's shape make for a tought one for you to get your legs "around" the horse, but having post straight legs at the trot means you no longer have as good a base of support as would be helpful. 

You see, you have to be secure and stable in the body in order for you to be independent in your hands and able to put them where they should be and let them stay there, while the rest of you moves around. I think the one reason that you feel more capable of doing the bent elbow after gym exerxising (which leads to help keeping the thumbs on top and a "quieter, more following hand overall") is not that your belly is smaller but rather that your core is stronger.

Having a good strong core is just absolutely fundamental to good riding. Not just strong abs, but strong back muscles and the ability to keep them engaged. If you ride really thinking about moving your core "toward" your hands as you post up and down, you will be better able to keep them quiet. Almost think of moveing toward and "through" the space between your steady hands.

keeping a bend in the elbows is also very much assited by keeping your chest open and thinking of having your elbows stretch down toward your pelvis. Try to bring your elbow closer to the top of your pelvis, and keep those elbows "riding " your own pelvis. When you do this, you will feel a "tug" at the collarbone area, as you open chest.

So, open chest, engaged core and back muscles, post TO and THRU your hands.

one more thing;

when you keep your thunbs on top, think of the tip of your thumb as laser sighting toward the bit rings. IF your horse raises her head, you must also raise your hands NOT drop them. But that's a whole 'nother post . . .


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

*Tiny*; you always post the most wonderful comments and food for thought for me, much appreciated again!! Yes, I have to agree my core has definitely strengthened. Not only with exercise, but my entire riding has changed with my Wintec Isabel. I actually can FEEL my core. I never realised how incorrect I had become until I got my saddle in March. So yes, the breakthrough has come with that saddle also. 

Will take the stirrups up. I have felt like I'm stretching into them, especially now that I have the flexi irons and the saddle has been slipping on occassion due to my bad leg and not being able to put enough weight through it at points - another story entirely!

I will definitely try the core trick when we start trotting again - with her size & her own issues, I always bring her into work slowly, and we're not yet at the trotting stage again. And will open my chest/put my elbows closer! Thanks for the handy hints!! 

Never heard the thumbs on top/bit idea, but I'm truly interested in this! Will be looking into it and paying good attention, getting my hands up is so important to me! 

Wow! I'm so glad I posted this thread XD


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## EighteenHands (Sep 12, 2011)

hahahahahhahahahah It's like you are reading my miiiiiind!! I have a buddah belly and I also have the bending issue and it drives me NUTS. Try having SHORT ARMS paired with a gut, makes for some HILARIOUS photos. I mean...i know im supposed to have a bend at the elbow and I think about it alllll the time, but the execution can be somewhat lacking:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Mmmmmmm goes off to look at pics, I'll be back


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

**** that straight as well :-(












Something else to work on


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

*Ei**ghteenHands; *I'm relatively the same with the shorter arm vs the belly! Isn't it frustrating?! I'm working my butt off to fix this, I know it's going to take time though. Can't wait to begin trotting again and work hard on correcting it! You feel like you're doing well and then you see photos/videos and you're like 'What the?! I swear they were bent darn it!'

*GoldenHorse; *that's what I usually look like, and it's frustrating! I'm sure we'll get there!!


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

Thought I'd post an update... been working my butt off on remembering my arms whilst riding... and it's actually becoming less of a chore for sure!! 

We have had good solid walking moments and here's my favourite to date:









My issue was with the trot, and I'm so thankful that I'm at a stage now where I'm NOT relying so much on my hands for balance and I'm posting from my core more effortlessly! Thanks to tinyliny for giving me such good advice!!



















We've even started cantering and I'm trying to ride Honey on a loose rein through it... she doesn't seem to like it to be honest and listens and tries harder when she can feel me there... it's like her canter gets flatter with the longer rein so I know its rider issue for sure! 











We're getting better by the ride too and I've even started to "jump" little obstacles (one-two tire height only I'm a chicken!) - never thought I'd ever find the confidence to start again... so I've found with correcting some issues, I'm actually able to balance and ride more efficiently. I thought sharing all this might be helpful to at least someone!! And I'm a little proud of my progress!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This is a great shot, too. Shoulder, hip ankle alignment is excellent. Elbow to bit straight line and no posting off the reins. YOu are obviously carrying your own weight over your stirrups nicely.


You will have simular results at canter when you have a chance to do it more.
Don't lean intot he circle at the canter. I do that , too. It's as if I am trying to "help" the horse. Which of course, isn't helpful at all. And don't over advance your inside shoulder.

Cheers
Caroline


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

A lot of progress can be seen. don't give up, most of us have had these issues in some degree as we learn th be "lighter" on our horsses' backs. You have made a LOT of progress, so hang in there & enjoy!


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

Thank you so much *tinyliny*!! Oh your posts and advice are always so helpful. Her canter has been quite the surprise, I didn't think she was ready for it, having just started trotting again, but she actually offered one and didn't pace out of it (she's a Standardbred for those who don't know)... she's only wobbled maybe three times now in the total of cantering but she's quick to change back to her trot... however she has a really bad habit for leaning in on her circles (and me) for balance in the canter, I know some of that is rider error, and the rest is down to her being green and not really *knowing* how to canter with any balance. She has moments where she gets a little lift in it... and then she throws in a little pig root which has been rather harmless for me considering I'm very nervous with my injury!! I haven't cantered in two years so I'm slowly remembering all my little habits that need fixing too! To be honest I've decided to stop focussing on the canter and back to improving the trot, we're now able to change rein without breaking into a walk so I call that a success! It's very hard with all that grass out there, but I have it coming out of my ears at present so I'm slowly going to address my riding area by strip grazing it and riding in another area. We also changed to a Oval Mouth Snaffle instead of the tom thumb and she's going very well in it! 

*Cacowgirl*; thank you so very much for your comment, it truly means a lot!! I'm trying my best and so is Honey. Am hoping by April we can head off to a Green Horse Show (just walking and trotting only) so am working on many things and getting her fit before I attempt to ask her to school for me... been so long so I might take awhile to find the buttons again!


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Cantering can be thrilling or totally scary. I don't use it as much as I used to, but I sure love a smooth ground covering trot, & I can get most of my horses to do at the speed of other horses' canter.Are you in a small area when you ride-or do you go out on trails?Was wondering because you mention her leaning on the circles-how does she do on a straightaway? Take it easy on yourself-it takes a lot to rebuild confidence, especially after an injury-I've been riding for over 50 years, so I've had my share of them.


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

*Cacowgirl*; We ride in my paddocks. I am a nervous rider, I once used to have no issue with big spaces or jumping etc... but with experience, age and injuries, well I've become a little nervous out of my comfort zone... I test myself all the time though, I ride in bigger spaces now and trust in my mare more, but all of it is in my paddocks.
One reason is because another grazer's horses are out in the main field and they do have a tendancy to chase my mare when I'm just leading her about, I'd be actually scared to ride her with them around us... as our big injury was done whilst trying to socialise Honey with other horses under saddle. But I plan to slowly get out there, and I think if I can get a bigger space for her, she'll have more room to skip into the canter as desired. On a straight line her canter falls apart - she's only learning to canter under saddle. Her trot can get almost faster than the average canter - being Standardbred she can certainly rack up the speed when going!! 
Thanks for the vote of confidence... I know we'll get there in our own time... and I'm just thrilled with our progress so far!! ^_^


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

While it's good to test your boundaries, also don't just push ahead too fast. There's nothing wrong w/trotting & w/a Standardbred I can see how the gait would have to use different muscles, & might be a longer learning curve & uncomfortable for her. As I get older I feel" the need for speed" much less. Remember-Riding should be fun!


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## EighteenHands (Sep 12, 2011)

looking good with the second set of pictures keep up the good work.....

this is how I remember it:

-Abs (they're under there somewhere trust me, LOL) *IN*
-Chest *OUT* (as if we need them to look any bigger)
Sit *TALL* (control that core can reach nice and tall through the top of your head)
and..........if tucking those elbows into your sides for a nice frame means you squish your boobies together a little and your for forearms kinda, well...touch your gut a little (liking the mental picture?) SO BE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just make sure you're wearing a top notch sports bra and a t-shirt with a tight neck. otherwise boys from MILES around will be standing at the rail drolling as your ladies bounce up and down, ****!!!

good job!


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

That pink tinge around all my tops is my sports bra that I wear over my normal bra - got that after I watched a trotting video from earlier in the year last year... needless to say, how I hadn't received any injuries from them puppies, I don't know haha!! 

Have been working on bringing my elbows closer to my sides, it's slowly not feeling so foreign! Thank you so much for your advice *EighteenHands*!!


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