# Saddle sliding forward issues- suggestions?



## α CMa (Dec 5, 2018)

Saddle slipping forward can occur for a variety of reasons. Those reasons can include:

1) Horse conformation
- Mutton withered
- Downhill
- Flat back
- Forward girth-line
- Very round barrel
- Uneven shoulders
- Uneven muscling
(Your horse, from the pictures, doesn't look too bad, though.)

2) Improper saddle fit
- Incorrectly shaped for the horse
- Too wide
- Too narrow
- Saddle too far back
- Too long
- Incorrect billet alignment
(I can't really tell the saddle fit just by these pictures, but it doesn't look too bad.)

If all else fails, you could get "extras", meaning an anti-slip pad or a crupper. However, make sure it is the best saddle fit possible before trying to fudge it with "extras".


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

In addition to all that @a CMa said, being a bit fluffy can cause this problem on some body types, too.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I think the tree is to curved for your horses build...
So it travels forward to where it should sit, leaving you in the wrong position astride.
Can't see clearly but think it is to narrow and is perched above not sitting down/across the supporting structures of the back, wither and shoulder blade.
Your horse looks wide and broad, very well weighted and has good padding at the wither which stops the saddle from settling in the sweet spot but slides forward of it...
If that makes sense...
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Have you tried it without a pad?


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thanks everyone! I have tried it without the sheepskin pad and just the thin one, it still slides forward sadly. I’ve tried about ten saddles no and they all do the same. I am starting to think it’s her forward girth line pulling everything forward combined with being slightly downhill.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

No pad. It’s a monoflap, latex saddle


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Is the saddle itself sliding forward, or is the girth sliding forward, or both?

If the girth is sliding forward than you are dealing with a conformation problem. Some horses have a naturally far forward girth groove. It doesn't matter where you put the girth, even if you move it back, it is going to continue to slide forward.

Try getting a total saddle fit shoulder relief dressage girth- this should move the billets back, while allowing the girth to sit forward in the girth groove. 

Anatomically shaped girths like the Shoulder Fit, are the best solution for this type of problem. 

I have had several gaited horses with this issue. My Paso fino has such a far forward girth groove that every saddle i tried on him rubbed him in the elbows. My foxtrotter has a far forward girth groove but not as bad as the Paso. Same with the racking pony I had. 

I have a friend with the opposite problem- her girth (and saddle) slide backwards no matter where you put it. It doesn't matter what saddle you put on, it slides right back. 

If the shoulder fit girth does not work, then I would assume it is a saddle issue. I used to ride a mutton withered pony and she needed a crouper to hold the saddle back but her back wasn't as nice as your horses. Your horse actually has fairly decent withers and a good looking back. 

It is possible you need both a new girth and a different saddle.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I think she is downhill with a forward girth groove, flat, wide back (that part is hard to see in the pics) and low withers.
The biggest issue is that her girth groove is very small and short so the girth can only sit in one spot.

Agree that the panels are curved and your horse's back is flatter. It doesn't look like you can place the saddle back behind the shoulder and have it stay there. You may need a wide tree, flatter panels, and a flatter shape from pommel to cantle (versus a banana curve). You definitely need billets that come out closer to the front of the saddle.

I wouldn't raise the saddle up with extra padding because it is hard enough to get a good fit on this type of horse, and in order for the saddle to stay in place you need it to sit close and go "around" the top very well. 

I'd suggest using a hoop tree with forward billets, something like a Lovatt and Ricketts Ellipse or Black Country Eloquence.
Notice in this picture how level the panels are at the back of the saddle, and how the billets and girth allow for the small, forward girth groove.









You'll also need a flat girth since it will need to sit near the horse's elbows.

I had a mare that _every_ saddle went forward on, until I got a wide, hoop tree with forward billets. After that I could gallop around no problem and go down hills.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

You may want to look into getting point billets or a saddle with short billets where you can use the front ones.


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

I think gottatrot's right ref the conformation, so it may be the pommel's sitting too high in the first pics. If so then either the saddle needs to be wider, or needs re-balancing so the pommel sits lower - in between what would be ideal for the horse, and what would be best for the rider. 

Do you find you feel as if you're leaning back when you first get on and walk off? If you fit a croup-high horse with a saddle which sits parallel to the ground, as it would on a level horse, it puts your centre of balance too far in reverse of the horse's, which in this case will be forward of the norm. So when the horse moves forward, you're behind the horse's movement and tend to go back, meaning you tilt your upper body forward (and your legs generally go back) if you want to stay in balance. This position can also encourage the saddle to skid forward, especially if you wrap your legs around the horse and force your seat deep to encourage the horse forward.

There are potentially a lot of minor issues contributing to this problem and you could really do with someone experienced on the ground to evaluate. It's often not possible to see everything from pics.


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thank you everyone! I believe the girth slides forward first then the saddle. I will try to get my hands on a shoulder relief girth. The wider saddles seem to slide forward even more and faster which is why I am confused but as you said, it could be a combination of things. 

I will also try a saddle pad with shims in the back.

For my riding, I do sit too far back and struggle to keep my leg forward. This is actually the main reason I started on this new saddle journey haha 

Here’s a wither shot as well as two other saddles I tried and didn’t slide as far forward, maybe I’ll get them back from trial. Would love to hear your thoughts on these. This is challenging but learning lots from everyone!


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

If your horse was standing square in the very first picture you posted, it doesn't surprise me that most saddles slide forward. As others have said, she is slightly downhill. Plus, look at where her heart girth sits in relation to her withers - it is a big forward. So that is going to "pull" saddles forward on her.


Ditto on trying a shoulder relief girth, and if need be, shims. But make sure you are using the shims correctly! (always should see shim in front of the saddle, so you don't create a pressure point)


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

beau159 said:


> Ditto on trying a shoulder relief girth, and if need be, shims. But make sure you are using the shims correctly! (always should see shim in front of the saddle, so you don't create a pressure point)


Sorry, can't agree with this. Shims need to sit, at most, level with the front of the saddle, even slightly behind the front panel roll. You're trying to support the point and front panel, and if shims sit on the back of the shoulderblades that's when you get pressure problems, IME. That's why you should never pull riser pads forward like numnahs/saddlecloths. Rear shims - they're different, of course, and usually need to extend past the panel end.

Looking at the horse's shoulder conformation and the saddles, if they all have latex panels that'll be half the problem. Foam panel close contacts don't fit anything very well, particularly horses with hollows behind shoulders and especially if the horse is croup-high as well - the balance can never be right. If you're having a saddle fitter he/she will tell you the same (or should) and you ought to look for something that can be flocked to fill the hollows and get a more sensible level, taking wool out of the back if needs be (and desirable - it depends on your build and the deflection in the horse's back when mounted). That'll usually help with the sliding forward issue.
Best of luck! 

PS. Sorry - just noticed the top saddle has a rear panel gusset, so that probably is flocked. I hate the locked-in seat position it likely gives from the look of the tree shape, but that's just me. 

PPS. Point straps on dressage saddles are designed to sit the saddle a little further back, but there are two potential issues to be aware of (i) they can pull the front of the saddle down behind the shoulder into the hollows (another reason for a flocked panel) and (ii) behind the usual point-of-fit some horses widen very abruptly. So a saddle arch the correct width at the usual 2" behind the shoulder can need to be a half-tree wider if the saddle sits a half-inch further back.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

OK ....
I don't know how to fix or address this but know it makes a huge difference...
Your horse has uneven shoulders and build...
He is _*not*_ evenly developed which leads to saddle slip issues..
His left side ribcage also looks "less" to me than his right.
He appears right side dominant in his build...









I don't know how to fix it, nor what caused it although I have a idea I'll keep private.
I just am positive it can lead to fit problems.

:runninghorse2:...


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

horselovinguy said:


> OK ....
> I don't know how to fix or address this but know it makes a huge difference...
> Your horse has uneven shoulders and build...
> He is _*not*_ evenly developed which leads to saddle slip issues..
> ...


You're very right there! 

Not really a saddle-fitter's nightmare, but a bit of a challenge, nonetheless


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't know if the shoulders are uneven or not. Remember the horse must stand squarely or else the horse will look uneven.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

unclearthur said:


> Sorry, can't agree with this. Shims need to sit, at most, level with the front of the saddle,* even slightly behind the front panel roll*. You're trying to support the point and front panel, and if shims sit on the back of the shoulderblades that's when you get pressure problems, IME. That's why you should never pull riser pads forward like numnahs/saddlecloths.



We will agree to disagree then. 



You should never have the tree of the saddle extending out over the top of the shim (talking about front shims). That creates a "line" of pressure on the shim.


Level is fine too, but I prefer to have a little shim "sticking out" to make 100% sure I'm not creating a pressure point. But never behind.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

As suggested above, a shoulder relief girth seems like it would probably help! Here's some more information about them:

https://totalsaddlefit.com/shoulderreliefgirth/

It doesn't necessarily have to be THAT brand. There are others out there with the same cut. But that's the idea. With these, the girth is already forward in the narrowest area of the girth groove, so it's not going to pull the saddle forward when you ride.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I've found that anatomical girths can help with very small slipping problems, but not with larger ones. Even if the girth is in the right place to start, if the saddle doesn't fit well it will still move forward.

The horse does look uneven (very common), but that usually creates a slipping problem to one side rather than forward. Many horses can be quite uneven but if the saddle is placed behind the shoulder, unless there is a large shoulder muscle under the panels it may not cause unevenness under the panels.

The unevenness is a natural problem caused by the horse using one side of the body more, hoof imbalances, and one side of the body developing more. It can be improved on by making sure the horse uses both leads under saddle, and works equally in both directions. Also with good hoof care. But for many horses it does not cause any problems.

A wider tree will allow the saddle to move forward more if you are padding it too high off the horse's back, and also if the billets are farther back. But if you use one with forward billets and keep it close so you can get it around the horse well when it is girthed up, it will stay in place much better than one with a narrower tree.
Keep in mind that a "wide" tree on many dressage saddles is not very wide, so you should look at the actual measurements.

Of course too wide is not good either...here is a good article:
https://www.saddlerysolutions.com/why-does-my-saddle-slide-forward-over-the-shoulder/


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## Pony360 (Feb 23, 2014)

Thank you everyone for your help and input! I am aware the horse isn’t evenly muscled on both sides, it’s an ongoing journey but there’s been improvement. I’ve tried the shims and I see some improvement as well with a saddle with more forward placed billets + a shoulder relief girth but it’s still sliding a bit. Time to get the professional saddle fitter out!


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

To me this sounds like a tree that is way to wide. I have horses that are very hard to fit, but with the proper tree size as the base thing to focus on, you shouldn't have that issue that bad unless it's a wrong tree size and it's gotta be VERY off for it to cause to move forward so much. The other thing I notice int he photo you posted is how downhill your horse is. A front end riser might be an option to lift the front and re-balance your saddle a little bit.


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