# I'm Breeding My Mare! :)



## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

So we were looking around lately for a nice stud to breed my mare to.. Our neighbors mare just had a foal and we were talking about the foal with our neighbors and got to talking about breeding my mare! So my neighbor has a nice smokey buckskin colt, only 2 years old, hasn't been bred yet, that has incredible breeding. My neighbor said he would charge a $350 stud fee for us. We went back to go look at him and he's gorgeous! They call him Mojo, but his papered name is MP Thrifty Driftwood, his sire's MP Thriftwood. (go to Potter Ranch Quarter Horses for more info on his sire, under "stallions")
We're either going to get a shot (forget the name?) from my vet to give to my mare to get her into heat or just put the two together and.. let them figure it out.
I'm really excited! We're planning on doing this pretty soon so my mare can have a late feb/ early march baby!  
Of course, pics of my mare, and a pic of Mojo's sire because I don't have any pics of Mojo at the moment, and pics of their new foal for the fun of it xP
(first four are thrifty wood, sorrel mare is mine, and the bay foal who's about 4 days old  )


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

By the way my mare's a maiden mare and her name is Penny (scamperwood's vixen)


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

...............why? :-|


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## JustLeaveIt2Mya (Jun 6, 2009)

imo, it's not the greatest idea to breed your mare to such a young stud...because you don't know what kind of foals he throws, for instance her could give the foal some sort of default as he's so young as you said he's 2yrs old and hasn't breed yet....but this is just MY opinon


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

The stud's daddy sure is a looker! Your mare is pretty and i dont see any major confo flaws. Good luck with the breeding! Be prepared for lots of questions because some people decide to tell you not to breed and try to make you all for adopting a baby instead but don't listen to them, its your choice if you want a baby or not. 
BTW, That baby is ADORABLE!


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

I agree with Macabre's question... Why?

You seem to only want a foal because your neighbors have one (and sorry to tell you this, but they sound like BYB's) 

Has your mare proven herself in the show pen?

And while no she doesn't look like she has major conformation flaws, those aren't conformation shots either - and those are the angles a lot of people use to get mediocre horses looking like decently built equines.


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

I wasn't looking for you all to critique my mare, I already know she has good conformation. My neighbors are NOT BYBs, they know what they are doing and breeding horses for better performance horses, for roping, team penning, etc. 

Thanks icrazyaboutu, it IS my own decision to breed my mare, and I want to go through the experience of it all.

I really don't want to hear everyone else's opinions, because I have my own and you guys aren't going to change it. I have had SO many experienced horse breeders, owners, and trainers tell me that I should breed my mare, so I'm not the only one that thinks I should.

I don't need to explain all of the reasons why I should breed her because I don't care if some of you don't agree with me.


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> ...............why? :-|


Why not?


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

You're on a public forum that is filled to the brim with very knowledgeable people. You're going to hear opinions, and you're most likely going to get critiqued. That's the consequence of posting.

And on the why not - Uhm, have you been to an auction lately?


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## JustLeaveIt2Mya (Jun 6, 2009)

you were asking what we thought, and i didnt say that you shouldn't breed your mare..i was saying i *"I"* were picking a stud for my mare it would *not* be a *2 year old* because they aren't fully developed, they haven't proven themselves has performence horses(other than genetics), and you don't know if they will have a foal with any deformities because of his young age. and you don't have an idea of what _his_ foals look like beacause _he is so young_, as you said he _hadn't_ bred yet, this is an *IN MY OWN OPINON!*


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

I'm not planning on selling her foal for any reason. The foal will end up being my mom's, sister's, or my horse when it is at the age to ride.

I didn't mean to get on anyone's bad side by posting this, I was just excited and thought you guys could share the excitement with me....


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

JustLeaveIt2Mya said:


> you were asking what we thought, and i didnt say that you shouldn't breed your mare..i was saying i *"I"* were picking a stud for my mare it would *not* be a *2 year old* because they aren't fully developed, they haven't proven themselves has performence horses(other than genetics), and you don't know if they will have a foal with any deformities because of his young age. and you don't have an idea of what _his_ foals look like beacause _he is so young_, as you said he _hadn't_ bred yet, this is an *IN MY OWN OPINON!*


 I understand, I wasn't directing what I said to you.


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## JustLeaveIt2Mya (Jun 6, 2009)

i'm not mad at you...i was just trying to give you some advice that's all...and after all it is your desicon, you never know maybe you could have a wonderful little colt or filly but there's always that what if? thing that you have to think about that's all...hope this helps and i didnt mean to offend you :\


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

AnnaLover said:


> Why not?


1. Because her conformation is mediocre at best
2. Because she hasn't done anything of merit
3. Because you're breeding to an unproven sire who hasn't done anything of merit
4. You're only breeding because he's "there"
5. Because anyone who is breeding a 2 year old stud colt to your mare for $350 is obviously a BYB.

Your post essentially tells me exactly what you know about breeding - nothing. You just want a kyoot foal and you don't care how you get it. You don't care what the stud looks like, you don't care what faults he has or how he may compliment your mare, you're only breeding because somehow your neighbour (who sounds about as knowledgeable as you) has convinced you that breeding to his 2 year old colt for a cheap price is a good idea.

Breed her because you have a goal. Not because you want a foal. You can BUY a foal. Do you understand at all what various "minor" conformation faults can do to a horse? You can claim you'll keep the foal all you want, producing something with post legs, cow hocks and a straight shoulder is only setting you up for vet bills which will obviously result in the sale of the foal - most likely to a kill buyer since nobody else is going to want those problems either.

And if you don't like the tone of my post, then do better not to sound like a complete novice if you want people to take you seriously.


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## JustLeaveIt2Mya (Jun 6, 2009)

\


> Originally Posted by *JustLeaveIt2Mya*
> _you were asking what we thought, and i didnt say that you shouldn't breed your mare..i was saying i *"I"* were picking a stud for my mare it would *not* be a *2 year old* because they aren't fully developed, they haven't proven themselves has performence horses(other than genetics), and you don't know if they will have a foal with any deformities because of his young age. and you don't have an idea of what his foals look like beacause he is so young, as you said he hadn't bred yet, this is an *IN MY OWN OPINON!*_
> 
> I understand, I wasn't directing what I said to you.
> ...


okay


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

AnnaLover said:


> I'm not planning on selling her foal for any reason. The foal will end up being my mom's, sister's, or my horse when it is at the age to ride.
> 
> I didn't mean to get on anyone's bad side by posting this, I was just excited and thought you guys could share the excitement with me....


I just wanted to mention, in case you haven't considered this (if you have, don't mind me!), if you plan on keeping this foal for it's ENTIRE life like you seem to be saying here, have you considered that this foal could live to be over thirty?

My mare, Lacey, was a "I'm going to keep this horse forever and ever" baby. Her owner had every intention of keeping her through thick and thin, 26 years ago when she bred Lacey's parents. She adored Lacey and cherished Lacey like no other. However, 24 years after she placed Lacey's parents together, her husband (of 30 years) told her he wanted a divorce. Now, an older woman who had never worked a day in her life (aside from work as a mother, etc) was being thrust into a world where jobs were very scarce, especially for someone with only marginal skills. She had previously kept Lacey at her house and grew her own hay so her horse expenses were very limited, but now she was looking at having to board her horse in an area that wasn't cheap, while not having a job that paid for more than just her basic human needs. At 24, greenbroke, and spoiled, Lacey was not very marketable. Her owner wanted to find her the best home possible since Lacey was her baby but she didn't have tons of time to find that home. Her only other option was to put Lacey down.

Can you imagine the kind of heartache this woman was going through because she had truly believed that she would own Lacey until the day Lacey passed from this earth? Can you imagine all the things that must have been going through her head as she made the appointment to have her perfectly healthy "baby" put down? Can you imagine having to make that choice yourself? 
Thankfully, of course, my trainer found Lacey for me and Lacey's previous owner was able to cancel the appointment to have Lacey put down, but still.

I cannot imagine having to go through that. I just don't know how I would be able to do it.

I guess I'm trying to say, that while I don't agree with anyone breeding with the horse market the way it is, please consider, before you breed, every scenario for this baby 25 years down the road. Life will be very different, you won't be the same person you are now. even if that baby will be an extremely marketable, athletic individual in 10-15 years, what will happen when it gets to be a senior? Will it be the best babysitter horse ever or will it be a horse with no home like Lacey was? Will you invest in getting it trained to the nines so that if anything happens to you, your sister, or your mother, it will still have a home with someone, somewhere?

Maybe you've considered all that and have a plan, if so, good job! If not, and you're really set on breeding, please make a plan. Talk about it with everyone, your mom, your sister, everyone, and make sure all the details are perfect. 

Just my $.2 

=)


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

Wallaby said:


> I just wanted to mention, in case you haven't considered this (if you have, don't mind me!), if you plan on keeping this foal for it's ENTIRE life like you seem to be saying here, have you considered that this foal could live to be over thirty?
> 
> My mare, Lacey, was a "I'm going to keep this horse forever and ever" baby. Her owner had every intention of keeping her through thick and thin, 26 years ago when she bred Lacey's parents. She adored Lacey and cherished Lacey like no other. However, 24 years after she placed Lacey's parents together, her husband (of 30 years) told her he wanted a divorce. Now, an older woman who had never worked a day in her life (aside from work as a mother, etc) was being thrust into a world where jobs were very scarce, especially for someone with only marginal skills. She had previously kept Lacey at her house and grew her own hay so her horse expenses were very limited, but now she was looking at having to board her horse in an area that wasn't cheap, while not having a job that paid for more than just her basic human needs. At 24, greenbroke, and spoiled, Lacey was not very marketable. Her owner wanted to find her the best home possible since Lacey was her baby but she didn't have tons of time to find that home. Her only other option was to put Lacey down.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up. I have fully considered this, and there really isn't really way to prevent something horrible like that happening, is there?.. but I'm sure that all of the people who are all for breeding Penny, would have an interest in the foal if I had to sell it. As for once it becomes a senior, I'm not sure how I could prevent something like that from happening, because after all, life happens.. Are you saying I should have someone as back up for the foal? Because otherwise I'm not sure how I could plan for something like that to happen... :-|


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## ThatNinjaHorse (Jul 26, 2009)

Good luck with the breeding! and be sure to post photos of the foal when it arrives


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

AnnaLover said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I have fully considered this, and there really isn't really way to prevent something horrible like that happening, is there?.. but I'm sure that all of the people who are all for breeding Penny, would have an interest in the foal if I had to sell it. As for once it becomes a senior, I'm not sure how I could prevent something like that from happening, because after all, life happens.. Are you saying I should have someone as back up for the foal? Because otherwise I'm not sure how I could plan for something like that to happen... :-|


Basically, I'm advocating that you train it/have someone train it so that it will be a babysitter when it's a senior, not some rank greenbroke horse. From what I've seen, there is almost always a market for babysitters, especially registered, well bred babysitters. Don't just let it sit around and be a pretty face that is only marginally trained. Make sure it's a dream to work with on the ground and in the saddle, that sort of thing. =)

Good for you for considering those things!


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

Wallaby said:


> Basically, I'm advocating that you train it/have someone train it so that it will be a babysitter when it's a senior, not some rank greenbroke horse. From what I've seen, there is almost always a market for babysitters, especially registered, well bred babysitters. Don't just let it sit around and be a pretty face that is only marginally trained. Make sure it's a dream to work with on the ground and in the saddle, that sort of thing. =)
> 
> Good for you for considering those things!


Yep, I am going to train the foal to be good on trail rides and in the arena with cows  I don't let my horses get away with anything either so it will be very well behaved  Thanks for the advice!


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

ThatNinjaHorse said:


> Good luck with the breeding! and be sure to post photos of the foal when it arrives


Thanks and I'll be sure to post tons of pics, knowing me! :wink:


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

TO ALL THE PEOPLE TELLING HER NOT TO BREED: I have a question for you guys, since you say no to breeding and yes to adoption for horses, does that mean if someone told you they were going to get pregnant because they wanted a baby but them and their spouse weren't the prettiest things you would tell them they were just mediocre and they should adopt because there are thousands and thousands of babies up for adoption? No you wouldn't but I dont see how horse breeding and people breeding are different. Both species have tons up for adoption yet people still continue to breed. Why? Because they want one! You dont know how good they are at training, you dont know what kind of responsible parents they are gonna be but you dont try to stop them. Why are you guys so harsh with horses but not with people? Kids die everyday in orphanages and heck, in some countries they live startving on the streets because their parents couldnt care for them.


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## DakotaLuv (Mar 21, 2009)

Nice looking mare, nice looking stud. You are obviously aware of the expenses and time that go into raising a pregnant mare and foal and you can provide an awesome home. The foal is going to be trained AND you plan on keeping it. I don't see anything wrong with breeding your mare. She is nice and will produce a nice foal. Don't let any stupid responses put you down. This cross if FAR better than what i've been seeing lately. If you want to breed your mare and know the risks involved good for you. There is nothing wrong with that. Make sure to keep us posted. It will be a long wait, but well worth it.


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## Peetz (Mar 14, 2010)

PaintsPwn said:


> I agree with Macabre's question... Why?
> 
> Has your mare proven herself in the show pen?
> 
> ...


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## Peetz (Mar 14, 2010)

AnnaLover said:


> I'm not planning on selling her foal for any reason. The foal will end up being my mom's, sister's, or my horse when it is at the age to ride.
> 
> I didn't mean to get on anyone's bad side by posting this, I was just excited and thought you guys could share the excitement with me....


 
It sounds like you choose a good breeder, people don't ask [and get] 1100$ in stud fees for doing a byb program! With their help you can have a good pregnancy and a great foal. If everyone thought the way some do on here, horses would be extinct! 
I look forward to your posts about your new baby!


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> TO ALL THE PEOPLE TELLING HER NOT TO BREED: I have a question for you guys, since you say no to breeding and yes to adoption for horses, does that mean if someone told you they were going to get pregnant because they wanted a baby but them and their spouse weren't the prettiest things you would tell them they were just mediocre and they should adopt because there are thousands and thousands of babies up for adoption? No you wouldn't but I dont see how horse breeding and people breeding are different. Both species have tons up for adoption yet people still continue to breed. Why? Because they want one! You dont know how good they are at training, you dont know what kind of responsible parents they are gonna be but you dont try to stop them. Why are you guys so harsh with horses but not with people? Kids die everyday in orphanages and heck, in some countries they live startving on the streets because their parents couldnt care for them.


I don't say "you're ugly, don't have babies", but look at China. Once child per family. End of story. If you have more than one kid, you're fined. Having a horse baby of mediocre breeding doesn't do anyone a favor...mediocre breeding means mediocre conformation, means mediocre performance, more health problems because of poor confirmation, means more vet bills for you, means feeding something that you might not be able to use ten years down the road because he has bad hips, or long hocks, or any number of problems with the legs and back that could pop up and make this horse unrideable. *Responsible *breeders breed because they have stock worth reproducing with...they're excellent show horses that have proven themselves in the show ring OR have proven that they do well what they were meant to do (i.e. a ranch horse) have a nice demeanor and have confirmation that makes people say "wow, look at that thing _move_."

I'm with Macabre. If you want a baby, buy a foal. Wait until that boy has proven himself in something, and then if you still want to breed your mare (who is cute, but I wouldn't advocate breeding her), then go right on ahead. Your money, your time, your stupidity. Just don't expect us here to celebrate jumping off a bridge without a rope, yes?


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## DakotaLuv (Mar 21, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> I don't say "you're ugly, don't have babies", but look at China. Once child per family. End of story. If you have more than one kid, you're fined. Having a horse baby of mediocre breeding doesn't do anyone a favor...mediocre breeding means mediocre conformation, means mediocre performance, more health problems because of poor confirmation, means more vet bills for you, means feeding something that you might not be able to use ten years down the road because he has bad hips, or long hocks, or any number of problems with the legs and back that could pop up and make this horse unrideable. *Responsible *breeders breed because they have stock worth reproducing with...they're excellent show horses that have proven themselves in the show ring OR have proven that they do well what they were meant to do (i.e. a ranch horse) have a nice demeanor and have confirmation that makes people say "wow, look at that thing _move_."
> 
> I'm with Macabre. If you want a baby, buy a foal. Wait until that boy has proven himself in something, and then if you still want to breed your mare (who is cute, but I wouldn't advocate breeding her), then go right on ahead. Your money, your time, your stupidity. Just don't expect us here to celebrate jumping off a bridge without a rope, yes?


Oh good Lord. :roll:


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

So does that mean you and your spouse are going to have only one child? What if your spouse was born without a leg or a bad back, would you still have a kid or would you tell him he isnt worthy of being reproduced because he hasn't proven himself by winning the lottery or by becoming president? I don't know why you are trying to tell her not to breed. She has made up her mind and has not asked for your opinion. So, unless you think that who you get married to will be perfect and you guys are going to make amazing babies because you are both so perfect and above all of us people because you have done a ton of research and you were made to breed great quality I think you should stop telling her what to do.
Oh and BTW, just because china has a set amount doesn't mean anything. They are overrun with people AND all the people you see working for lowwww wages and living where ever they possibly can tend to be of asian decent because their countries dont pay well and they are too overrun to change things. Even if there is a certain number. Remeber, in china, they eat horses.


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> I don't say "you're ugly, don't have babies", but look at China. Once child per family. End of story. If you have more than one kid, you're fined. Having a horse baby of mediocre breeding doesn't do anyone a favor...mediocre breeding means mediocre conformation, means mediocre performance, more health problems because of poor confirmation, means more vet bills for you, means feeding something that you might not be able to use ten years down the road because he has bad hips, or long hocks, or any number of problems with the legs and back that could pop up and make this horse unrideable. *Responsible *breeders breed because they have stock worth reproducing with...they're excellent show horses that have proven themselves in the show ring OR have proven that they do well what they were meant to do (i.e. a ranch horse) have a nice demeanor and have confirmation that makes people say "wow, look at that thing _move_."
> 
> I'm with Macabre. If you want a baby, buy a foal. Wait until that boy has proven himself in something, and then if you still want to breed your mare (who is cute, but I wouldn't advocate breeding her), then go right on ahead. Your money, your time, your stupidity. Just don't expect us here to celebrate jumping off a bridge without a rope, yes?


 Actually, my mare DOES NOT have "poor" conformation, thank you very much. She actually has the best conformation I've seen in a while. She is a great performance horse. When I team pen and sort on her, she knows what to do and is amazing at it. She also doesn't have 'mediocre' breeding. My mare has "WOWED" all of the trainers I've used. I want to go through the EXPERIENCE of foaling and I have a great mare to do it with, that's why I'm not BUYING a foal. So maybe you should know your facts before you start assuming things and telling me not to breed my mare.


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

And I really appreciate the support all of you that agree with me


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> So does that mean you and your spouse are going to have only one child? What if your spouse was born without a leg or a bad back, would you still have a kid or would you tell him he isnt worthy of being reproduced because he hasn't proven himself by winning the lottery or by becoming president? I don't know why you are trying to tell her not to breed. She has made up her mind and has not asked for your opinion. So, unless you think that who you get married to will be perfect and you guys are going to make amazing babies because you are both so perfect and above all of us people because you have done a ton of research and you were made to breed great quality I think you should stop telling her what to do.
> Oh and BTW, just because china has a set amount doesn't mean anything. They are overrun with people AND all the people you see working for lowwww wages and living where ever they possibly can tend to be of asian decent because their countries dont pay well and they are too overrun to change things. Even if there is a certain number. Remeber, in china, they eat horses.


People breeding =/= horses breeding. VERY ignorant analogy.

If you are aware of all of what can go wrong, and can put in the time, effort, and money to train the foal, go for it.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Obviously, I'm not going to touch the "should or shouldn't you breed" question because I'm not an experienced breeder nor did you ask for opinions.

But, I would rather breed to a proven stallion, just to ensure what type of horse you are going to get. I like that stud that you posted and his baby seems really well built. Maybe you could breed to that stud instead of his son? Your mare is gorgeous and looks like she would make a good cross with that stud.


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## Kashmere (Nov 30, 2009)

AnnaLover said:


> Thanks icrazyaboutu, it IS my own decision to breed my mare, and I want to go through the experience of it all.
> 
> *I really don't want to hear everyone else's opinions, because I have my own and you guys aren't going to change it*. I have had SO many experienced horse breeders, owners, and trainers tell me that I should breed my mare, so I'm not the only one that thinks I should.
> 
> I don't need to explain all of the reasons why I should breed her because* I don't care if some of you don't agree with me*.


Does that mean you DONT have anything of value to breed her for?
Or does she have qualities that make her a good mare to breed with but "because I don't care if some of you don't agree with me" makes it not worthy of telling us?

Frankly, on a way I can understand you.
I would personally LOVE to enjoy the experience of breeding my own mare and having a foal.
But stay realistic ALL THE TIME.
Does it really have to be NOW? You have a life time in front of you.

And don't expect to post this here and not get bad comments.
Frankly, I agree with the majority here.
Why?


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## Kashmere (Nov 30, 2009)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> TO ALL THE PEOPLE TELLING HER NOT TO BREED: I have a question for you guys, since you say no to breeding and yes to adoption for horses, does that mean if someone told you they were going to get pregnant because they wanted a baby but them and their spouse weren't the prettiest things you would tell them they were just mediocre and they should adopt because there are thousands and thousands of babies up for adoption? No you wouldn't but I dont see how horse breeding and people breeding are different. Both species have tons up for adoption yet people still continue to breed. Why? Because they want one! You dont know how good they are at training, you dont know what kind of responsible parents they are gonna be but you dont try to stop them. Why are you guys so harsh with horses but not with people? Kids die everyday in orphanages and heck, in some countries they live startving on the streets because their parents couldnt care for them.


Does that mean that people breeding is Okay then?
Frankly sme people shouldn't breed IMHO!


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

To tell the truth I don't think some people should have babies but it's not like someone is going to tell their friends they shouldn't have babies because they aren't financially secure or because they are the smartest or prettist person. And yes, peole breeding and horse breeding are alike, once you have a kid they stay with you your whole life, you have to be prepared for disabilites, and you have to teach them to be under control just like a foal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

> She actually has the best conformation I've seen in a while.


And I'm sure you've taken her to breed shows, shown her in halter in a multiple judge show and kicked butt? Unlikely. Unbiased eyes are honesty eyes.

If you want the experience of breeding, raising and owning a foal - go work on a breeding farm that is doing a great job of putting out high caliber babies... Don't just do it in your back yard 'because you can'. 

That's a major reason shelters are overrun "Oh we wanted little Bobby to experience the miracle of life!"

​


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> To tell the truth I don't think some people should have babies but it's not like someone is going to tell their friends they shouldn't have babies because they aren't financially secure or because they are the smartest or prettist person. And yes, peole breeding and horse breeding are alike, once you have a kid they stay with you your whole life, you have to be prepared for disabilites, and you have to teach them to be under control just like a foal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Kids cannot be sold for meat.  A Modest Proposal didn't catch on..


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

> Kids cannot be sold for meat.  A Modest Proposal didn't catch on..


They can if you try hard enough. :shock::lol: Sorry, we need a bit of humor(even dark humor) around here when things get all "doom and gloom". I'm not going to tell you what to do since you didn't ask for it, but I do wish you the best of luck and a happy ending for you and your horse/s in what ever you choose to do.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Well, as I'm sure you figured out, breeding is a touchy subject on this forum. Why? Because of all the $50 foals out there. Because of influx of crap horses. Because of the 100,000 backyard breeder's who think that their sick hocked, long back, ewe necked COLOURED stallion will produce wonderful foals of COLOUR. 

In my opinion (Although I know you didn't ask for it, but that's what you get for posting a public forum)? It IS your choice. Right or wrong, it's ultimately up to you. I don't agree with it, but hey, that's my opinion.

I don't agree with saying that your breeder's aren't completely competent. Anybody who knows anything about breeding decent horses would never offer their stallion at two years old, let alone breed for $350. What sort of horse is worth that? Auction horses. 
Why should show horses be bred? Because their stock sells.
Why show unshown horses not be bred? Because their stock ends up in the meat pen within five years of it's life 97% of the time.
Harsh? Yeah. Reality? Yeah.

Would I breed any of my mares to a two year old stallion? Not a chance in h*ll.
My preference, but I wouldn't want to expose my mare to a stallion who hasn't been proved, is ONLY two years old, and I am going to assume hasn't not been tested for any sort SCID. 
Has your mare? I know some peeople don't really care if their mare or stallion is an SCID carrier but I would. 

I'm not going to touch the breeding humans = breeding horses because that's about the funniest thing I've ever heard, IF I even agree with it because yeah, I think there's a lot of people out there who shouldn't reproduce. Too many people think because they (be it humans, dogs, or horses) have reproductive organs they should be used. 

I also agree with PaintsPwn. Your biast with your horses's confirmation. Why not show her, then? Cost? A foal out of a shown broodmare and a shown stallion is going to be worth ten times that of a foal out of an unproven mare and stallion. Even if we say we'll keep it forever, which in the long run is unrealistic. 

I've got a wonderful Khemosabi bred Sabino producing stallion that I'm cutting this year. He's a proven sire, out of international champion bloodlines multiple times over, but he's just not maturing into a conformationally correct stallion. He won't make it in the show ring and despite his coloured genetics and offspring, he isn't really worth keeping around as a stallion. He'll make just as much of a fantastic riding/show gelding as he will a stallion.
It's not his national champion pedigree combined with the extra splash of Sabino genetics that's wrong, it's a few minor conformation flaws that, DESPITE all those attributes, are leading to his gelding.
If a horse like that is being gelded I'd even consider why this unshown colt is being allowed to stay a stallion if he's not being shown. Aside from colour. Because NO ONE just breeds for colour.

Like you are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to my own. This is it:
It's pointless and silly to breed for fun. 
The horse industry is already way past full on those type of horses.

If you want, go right ahead. As stated, it's your choice. I just don't think it's the most educated and appropiate choice. 
That being said, if you do decide to breed, I do hope you have a healthy happy foal and everything works out for all of yous involved.


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

Aw! What cuties, all of them! Good luck, and make sure to keep us updated!


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

_This thread is a prime example of why we really shouldn't have a breeding forum. Things become offensive and nasty. _



Icrazyaboutu said:


> TO ALL THE PEOPLE TELLING HER NOT TO BREED: I have a question for you guys, since you say no to breeding and yes to adoption for horses, does that mean if someone told you they were going to get pregnant because they wanted a baby but them and their spouse weren't the prettiest things you would tell them they were just mediocre and they should adopt because there are thousands and thousands of babies up for adoption? No you wouldn't but I dont see how horse breeding and people breeding are different. Both species have tons up for adoption yet people still continue to breed. Why? Because they want one! You dont know how good they are at training, you dont know what kind of responsible parents they are gonna be but you dont try to stop them. Why are you guys so harsh with horses but not with people? Kids die everyday in orphanages and heck, in some countries they live startving on the streets because their parents couldnt care for them.


_I can't agree more with this analogy. The world is seriously screwed up... Then again I'm a little emo kid, hating life. _



vivache said:


> *People breeding =/= horses breeding. VERY ignorant analogy.*
> 
> If you are aware of all of what can go wrong, and can put in the time, effort, and money to train the foal, go for it.


_No it is not. Horses and people equal out, as to any other animal. 

~~~~~

I personally think this thread should be closed, sorry to the OP. _


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> _This thread is a prime example of why we really shouldn't have a breeding forum. Things become offensive and nasty. _


Really? I'm sorry you see it that way.
I think it's rather educational and debatable. Healthy debates (as this is, I believe - there isn't any name calling etc) is pretty important. 
I don't think anyone has been offensive or nasty. Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we're being "mean".


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> To tell the truth I don't think some people should have babies but it's not like someone is going to tell their friends they shouldn't have babies because they aren't financially secure or because they are the smartest or prettist person. *And yes, peole breeding and horse breeding are alike, once you have a kid they stay with you your whole life,* you have to be prepared for disabilites, and you have to teach them to be under control just like a foal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, horses only stay with their parents until 6 months :wink:



Icrazyaboutu said:


> So does that mean you and your spouse are going to have only one child? What if your spouse was born without a leg or a bad back, would you still have a kid or would you tell him he isnt worthy of being reproduced because he hasn't proven himself by winning the lottery or by becoming president? I don't know why you are trying to tell her not to breed. She has made up her mind and has not asked for your opinion. So, unless you think that who you get married to will be perfect and you guys are going to make amazing babies because you are both so perfect and above all of us people because you have done a ton of research and you were made to breed great quality I think you should stop telling her what to do.
> Oh and BTW, just because china has a set amount doesn't mean anything. *They are overrun with people AND all the people you see working for lowwww wages and living where ever they possibly can tend to be of asian decent because their countries dont pay well and they are too overrun to change things. Even if there is a certain number. Remeber, in china, they eat horses.*


I'm confused. So you say she should breed, then say people and horse breeding is alike, therefore syaing every person should breed if they want a baby, then say there are kids on the streets dieing because they weren't wanted once they came out, thensay because of that China is overpopulated? Isn't that contradicting yourself?


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## wannahorse22 (Dec 27, 2009)

Really guys? Lets all stop acting like a bunch of 8 year olds, and stop fighting. She just wanted someone to share her enthusiasm with, she did not need a bunch of people telling her not to do it. Lets grow up and stay on topic. If you disagree with the breeding just dont post. It sounds like some of you are trying to start a fight.


Anyway...Good luck with your mare! When its foaled make sure to post tons of pics.!


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

thunderhooves said:


> Actually, horses only stay with their parents until 6 months :wink:
> 
> 
> I'm confused. So you say she should breed, then say people and horse breeding is alike, therefore syaing every person should breed if they want a baby, then say there are kids on the streets dieing because they weren't wanted once they came out, thensay because of that China is overpopulated? Isn't that contradicting yourself?


I meant the person that wanted to breed the horse. The baby would stay with them. Not the mare 

I said that dumb stuff about China because she was saying how China was smart having a limit on the amount of children they were allowed. The message I meant to get across was that people have children without being looked down upon or being told that they should adopt because they are mediocre. Obviously people that want a kid dont get questioned by strangers about why they want a kid and what they are going to need it for and why they dont just adopt. I think some of these people need to lay off, they can say what WSArabians said which is stating their opinion but saying its ultimately the owners choice. I am not saying everyone should breed just that if she wants to breed she shouldn't get flooded with questions unless she asks for an opinion.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

wannahorse22 said:


> Really guys? Lets all stop acting like a bunch of 8 year olds, and stop fighting. She just wanted someone to share her enthusiasm with, she did not need a bunch of people telling her not to do it. Lets grow up and stay on topic. If you disagree with the breeding just dont post. It sounds like some of you are trying to start a fight.
> 
> 
> Anyway...Good luck with your mare! When its foaled make sure to post tons of pics.!


_
Agreed!_


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

_



No it is not. Horses and people equal out, as to any other animal.

Click to expand...

_ 
Lol! So untrue. 

Firstly, it is illegal to dump your child if you don't want it, and you certainly can't auction it off. 

Children have access to medical help for deformities and toher issues brought about by genetics that horses don't - Most horses with severe issues are put down or sent to slaughter. 

It is mandatory for children to be educated in some form - It is not for horses. Horses who aren't educated end up in the kill pen.

You don't have to worry about the 'marketability' of children - You never have to sell them or find them a good home.

Children, once grown up, are self-sufficient (most). Horses are not - They rely on people for the entirety of their lives.

Babies are much, much easier to handle than a heavy, spilt, ill-mannered foal.

Need I go on?


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

wild_spot said:


> Lol! So untrue.
> 
> Firstly, it is illegal to dump your child if you don't want it, and you certainly can't auction it off.
> 
> ...


Foals don't throw up on you either 
LOL sorry had to throw that in there


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## wannahorse22 (Dec 27, 2009)

How did this get from a girl breeding her horse, to people dumping there kids on the road in China????


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Here's my big issue with breeding animals (and that goes for ANY animal, dogs, cats, wombats, I don't care) MOST people do it for all the wrong reasons. Because they think they can make a buck off of it, of because they have unbiased emotional connections with their animals that others may or may not share. 

That being said, breeding is entirely your decision, and I think you've heard enough on here already about the many reasons not to breed. But show records/marketability aren't even_ my_ real issue with people breeding their horses. It's the lack of forethought that goes in to it. The number of times, just on this forum, in the short time since I have joined, of people coming on here, complaining of medical problems with their preggo horses, and in the same sentence saying they cannot afford a vet - THAT's my problem. I have a HUGE issue with someone putting their horse in this state and then being unable/refusing to provide them necessary medical care. IMO opinion stud fees are the cheapest part of breeding, and certainly one place where cost should _not_ be an issue. *Breeding your horse is a voluntary act, not something you HAVE to do, so if you can't afford to do it right, don't freaking do it! *If you don't have 4 or 5 grand sitting in your bank account as a cushion to cover medical expenses including all the updated/extra shots, feed supplements, ultrasounds, and care your mare will need during her pregnancy, along with the fund for potential problems or a potential C section, then you have no business breeding your mare in the first place.

I am not saying you are one of these people, by any means! In fact, I would generally assume you are not. But if you are, I ask you to please rethink. Hold of breeding until you can afford it. Otherwise, if seven months down the road, you post on here "help! my mare is dripping blood from her vagina and I can't afford the vet, what should I do" I assure you it will go very hard for you from my perspective.


ETA: I currently have a mare getting ready to foal soon. She was a rescue, and she came to me already bred. She was "free". To date, not accounting for any of her OTHER health related vet bills, counting only the ones related to her pregnancy, she has cost me exactly $3,157.97 in vet bills. And she hasn't even delivered a healthy foal yet! AND I live in a part of the country where vet bills can be comparatively cheap. Are you sure you are financially prepared for everything that can go wrong, as well as emotionally prepared to deal with the potential loss of your mare?


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> Lol! So untrue.
> 
> Firstly, it is illegal to dump your child if you don't want it, and you certainly can't auction it off.
> 
> ...


_Um you shouldn't because I find humans reproducing pointless. Although, I may end up contradicting myself down the road... I think horses & people should level out. But whatever, I'm just a stupid child filled with hate. _


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> Here's my big issue with breeding animals (and that goes for ANY animal, dogs, cats, wombats, I don't care) MOST people do it for all the wrong reasons. Because they think they can make a buck off of it, of because they have unbiased emotional connections with their animals that others may or may not share.
> 
> That being said, breeding is entirely your decision, and I think you've heard enough on here already about the many reasons not to breed. But show records/marketability aren't even_ my_ real issue with people breeding their horses. It's the lack of forethought that goes in to it. The number of times, just on this forum, in the short time since I have joined, of people coming on here, complaining of medical problems with their preggo horses, and in the same sentence saying they cannot afford a vet - THAT's my problem. I have a HUGE issue with someone putting their horse in this state and then being unable/refusing to provide them necessary medical care. IMO opinion stud fees are the cheapest part of breeding, and certainly one place where cost should _not_ be an issue. *Breeding your horse is a voluntary act, not something you HAVE to do, so if you can't afford to do it right, don't freaking do it! *If you don't have 4 or 5 grand sitting in your bank account as a cushion to cover medical expenses including all the updated/extra shots, feed supplements, ultrasounds, and care your mare will need during her pregnancy, along with the fund for potential problems or a potential C section, then you have no business breeding your mare in the first place.
> 
> ...


Well said! As long as she feels she can support herself and the baby and mare's vet care she can breed if she wants. If she cant then she should wait till she can. 
Good post, you arent telling her not to but telling her your opinion and what to expect in a nice way.


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## shmurmer4 (Dec 27, 2008)

Lol, for the group.

That is all...


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Thanks Brandon!


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

The only thing I have to say on the subject, aside from good luck, I hope that she has a cute healthy baby, and definately post pictures as she gets bigger ect., is about breeding to the 2 year old. Has your mare ever been bred before? Has the stallion. Not so much from a "see what he/she produces" stand point, but more from a don't breed two inexperienced horses together. I think it is best to breed an experienced broodmare to an inexperienced stallion first, help the stallion learn how he should behave with a horse who already knows how to behave, and vice versa, instead of putting two horses into a pen together, or a breeding shed, and hope that all comes out all right. The mare doesn't know what to expect or how to act, and neither does the stallion, which ups the chances of someone getting hurt, either one or both of the horses, and/or the handlers. If she has been bred a few times before, or he has, or both, then great, but if not, I'd rethink breeding them together at this point. That being said, I hope that all goes well, and that the mare and baby do well.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

WSArabians said:


> .
> Why should show horses be bred? Because their stock sells.
> Why show unshown horses not be bred? Because their stock ends up in the meat pen within five years of it's life 97% of the time.
> Harsh? Yeah. Reality? Yeah.


Opinion? yeah. Exagerrated? Yeah. Reality? Nope!

I think 97% might be a little high. Very few horses end up in the meat pen compared to the amount that are born. The factor that impacts where most horse end up is training. Straight hock and pigeon toes have less to do with the usefullness of a horse than training. If I had a choice between a perfectly conformed horse with mediocre training or a mediocre horse with really good training I would take the one with the better training every time.

Also everybody likes to jump on the so-called backyard breeders when they are not the cause of the over population of horses. In the last 10 years the population of horses has increased by one third because the processing plants have been shut down. Horses age and get hurt or become undesirable in some other way and right now there is little that can be done with them. Just because someone breeds a mare it doesn't mean that the horse will be slaughtered. The BYB is an easy scapegoat for those on this board to hammer on but just because the breeder is not charging $1200 for a breed does not mean that the horse is low quality. I would have a hard time breeding to a stallion for over $600 in my area. They just don't charge much more than that and the ones that charge more are just charging more they aren't necessarily better horses. Every stallion was unproven at one time and most of them have reduced breed fees for a couple of years.

I hope the OP enjoys the process and raises a nice foal.


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Opinion? yeah. Exagerrated? Yeah. Reality? Nope!
> 
> I think 97% might be a little high. Very few horses end up in the meat pen compared to the amount that are born. The factor that impacts where most horse end up is training. Straight hock and pigeon toes have less to do with the usefullness of a horse than training. If I had a choice between a perfectly conformed horse with mediocre training or a mediocre horse with really good training I would take the one with the better training every time.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kevin, I really appreciate the support and I respect your opinion greatly!


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

I agree with Kevin 100%. 

OP: I hope you will keep us updated on the progress, although I couldn't blame you if you didn't... good luck with everything!


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

Ok well if it helps th OP has more pistures of her mare in her barn. Im not going to get down to the should you or should you not question. Im just going to simply start with your mare.

After inspecting more photos ive realized she is built very much like a mare from work. Ive also noticed that she does indeed have nice confo. though for a QH she could use more hip...but thats just a personal opinion. Her confo is fine.

You also said you do penning on her and that she is good at it. Thats nice. Has she won anything? Im just curious... You also said she is well bred. May we see lines?

Im just trying to get a better scope of the situation and the horses being bred. Perhaps this can help quiet the storm this thread has become. 

Now for the stud. His father is a very nice looking boy. Does he resemble his father in build and such? Keep it mind that at two he is still growing. Photos of the actual stud would help here.

Also I want everyone here to keep in mind that just like with other breeds some stud owners with unproven studs will offer free or discounted service to nice mares just to get the first batch of babies on the ground. Perhaps this is why the boy is so cheap?

Im not supporting or against the breeding. Im just the informational type. Thats how I base my opinions.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> If you don't have 4 or 5 grand sitting in your bank account as a cushion to cover medical expenses including all the updated/extra shots, feed supplements, ultrasounds, and care your mare will need during her pregnancy, along with the fund for potential problems or a potential C section, then you have no business breeding your mare in the first place.


4 or 5 grand is what my wifes pregnancies cost. I have bred many mares and have not spent more than $100 on any of them. I may have a vet palpate my mares but more often than not I give them vaccinations and that's it. I have never had a mare need help foaling and I think it is truely rare that it happens. I ask a vet at the clinic I use how many foaling mares he gets called to and he said about 6 every spring but he only has to help 1 or 2. He is a partner in the only two large animal clinics in the county so I think it's safe to say that if you have spent thousands of dollars on a healthy pregnancy you have wasted alot of money and your vet is taking advantage of you. There is no need for multiple ultrasounds or special feed and quite honestly you could probably get by without the vaccines. 

*Just because you don't agree with breeding a mare you don't need to severely over-exagerate something to try to make your point. All you succeed in doing is undermining your argument and destroying your credibility.*


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Kevin-- the poster of the 3-4k comment's mare HAS cost her that much money. That isn't to say that it isn't an exaggeration in *most* cases.

As long as there is a clear goal (not 'somebody said I should' or 'it'd make a cute baby') in mind, there's no problem with her breeding the horse. It's her property, and even if everyone doesn't agree, she can do what she likes. And, if she trains it right, there is *always* a market for deadbroke horses.

I think the main problem is that people breed these horses and train them poorly or not at all. Then, if the need comes to sell them, they've got a crappy, poorly trained horse on their hands. No one wants horse. Horse goes to auction. Take Thunder, the pony I'm riding. GREAT Welsh pony-- he's a good jumper and has great movement and confo. But he wasn't trained well. Went to auction, sold for something like $200.

Though, there was a good point brought up-- your horse is only nine according to your barn. Would you be willing to wait just a few more years? That'd give the stud a chance to mature.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

PaintsPwn said:


> You're on a public forum that is filled to the brim with very knowledgeable people. You're going to hear opinions, and you're most likely going to get critiqued. That's the consequence of posting.
> 
> And on the why not - Uhm, have you been to an auction lately?



speaking of auction, one mare we picked up last summer is SURPRISE preggers!!! ummm we don't know by what, how, or when. just that she's been getting "fat" all winter, and all of a sudden today she's LOW. so i look underneath and she's starting to bag up. we're guessing 2 - 4 weeks, but have no idea for sure, and it could be as soon as 1. so we're readying the foaling stall and hoping to raise donations ASAP to help with the completely unexpected vet bills and foaling and prepping for any possible complications since we know NOTHING on her history or her breeding other than she is a QH. nice right? ugh.....if anyone wants to help, she and her baby will def need sponsors!!! i'll actually start another thread and post pics and updates in there tomorrow.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

vivache said:


> Kevin-- the poster of the 3-4k comment's mare HAS cost her that much money. That isn't to say that it isn't an exaggeration in *most* cases.


I should have worded that differently. I believe it has cost her that much. I also believe her vet is taking advantage of her or she is a bit of a worrier with too much disposible income.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> I should have worded that differently. I believe it has cost her that much. I also believe her vet is taking advantage of her or she is a bit of a worrier with too much disposible income.



Worrier I am, for certain. Guilty as charged. There is a reason I have no intention to get into breeding horses myself. 

I don't feel my vet is taking advantage of me. I asked for the ultrasound, against his own recommendations, and I am glad I did. And I requested it based on the advice of people from this forum, and I respect the opinions of people who have more experience than I do - that's why I get on here and ask. My vet has only responded to my calls, and done the work I have asked for with only the basic recommendations of his own. He is not a particularly cheap vet. He is however the only equine vet close by in the area. That being said, vet costs for my part of the country are "typically" less expensive than other parts of the country.

I was not saying every birth costs that kind of money. But I think a person choosing to breed their horse should be prepared if the need arises - C sections and surgical repairs are very expensive, and what are you going to do when you get in a situation and need them, and only have 100 bucks to spare?

I assure you I don't have too much disposable income. I am a divorced mother staying home with a disabled child, disposable income isn't even in my vocabulary. I had to sell my horse trailer to make sure I have enough money to cover cost of potential problem births. Just because it hasn't happened to you over the years doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and I assume if it DID happen to you, you would have a way to cover expenses. You breed horses regularly, it's partially a living for you and what you do day to day. For people who do not live that lifestyle 24/7, losing one single horse may be their everything. I personally wouldn't want to be caught in the event of my mare needing care I couldn't provide.

I was simply voicing my opinion on things I think should be thought of when deciding to breed your horse. I wasn't telling the OP to or not to. I wasn't telling her her decision was right or wring, it's not my place to judge. I was simply trying to give her my thoughts in terms of the financial ramifications, as they CAN potentially play as big or a bigger part than all the things other people have listed as well.

All things aside I am not trying to argue with you, nor do I disagree that 97% of births go completely fine with little or no vet care needed. I just think one must be at times prepared to fall into that other 3%. I just wanted to clarify a few of your assumptions about me.

And again, I admit, I'm a worrier. :lol: On that assumption, you are completely correct.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> I was not saying every birth costs that kind of money. But I think a person choosing to breed their horse should be prepared if the need arises - C sections and surgical repairs are very expensive, and what are you going to do when you get in a situation and need them, and only have 100 bucks to spare?


I guess I'm kind of cold hearted but if I had $100 or $10000 to spare I would probably put a horse down before spending thousands of dollars on a hundred dollar foal. That being said a C-section is still only a couple hundred dollars or somewhere close. I train horses for a living but I raise horses as a hobby. I am not set up to make a profit raising horses in this market but I can make a few good horses for my own use.

I read in a biography of Hank Wisecamp (a famous QH breeder) that in all of his years of raising horses and some of teh best horses in the world, he only saw two foals born. He had multiple stallions and hundreds of mares at a time. He foaled them all out in a pasture and had less than 1 percent foal mortality. That is probably better than the molly coddled mares that get kept in a stall.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

JustLeaveIt2Mya said:


> you were asking what we thought, and i didnt say that you shouldn't breed your mare..i was saying i *"I"* were picking a stud for my mare it would *not* be a *2 year old* because they aren't fully developed, they haven't proven themselves has performence horses(other than genetics), and you don't know if they will have a foal with any deformities because of his young age. and you don't have an idea of what _his_ foals look like beacause _he is so young_, as you said he _hadn't_ bred yet, this is an *IN MY OWN OPINON!*


Interesting theory. Do you have any stats to back it up?


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

mls said:


> Interesting theory. Do you have any stats to back it up?


Horses don't mature physically until the age of four, like joints closing and such, but they can continue growing till sixish. He might still have some straightening out to do somewhere, or he could shoot up another 6 inches.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

justsambam08 said:


> Horses don't mature physically until the age of four, like joints closing and such, but they can continue growing till sixish. He might still have some straightening out to do somewhere, or he could shoot up another 6 inches.


Yes, I understand growing and maturing horses. I raise foals every year.

My question is how does being young impact what he throws?


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## Peetz (Mar 14, 2010)

mls said:


> Yes, I understand growing and maturing horses. I raise foals every year.
> 
> My question is how does being young impact what he throws?


 
Simply put, it wount. Genetics are not determined by a stallions age, they are determined by, well, genetics. lol. Genetic malformations are typically seen at birth and do not "develop" over age, so if that is what the poster was refering to they are misinformed. 
Sperm will not change with age either, they are the same from birth till death, just more or less in quantity, quality can be affected by several factors but the genetic makeup is NOT changed. 
I feel the poster was just ranting on and had no real idea of what they were saying.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

AnnaLover said:


> Actually, my mare DOES NOT have "poor" conformation, thank you very much. She actually has the best conformation I've seen in a while. She is a great performance horse. When I team pen and sort on her, she knows what to do and is amazing at it. She also doesn't have 'mediocre' breeding. My mare has "WOWED" all of the trainers I've used. I want to go through the EXPERIENCE of foaling and I have a great mare to do it with, that's why I'm not BUYING a foal. So maybe you should know your facts before you start assuming things and telling me not to breed my mare.


I totally know how you feel. I want to raise a foal someday too, just for the experience. I know it's not cost effective and there is risk and I won't know exactly what I will get. But I would love to have the experience once in my life.

The way I look at it, is everyone and their brother is breeding horses anyway, it's not like my one dream foal is going to make or break the horse market. And I also plan to keep the foal "forever." Yes, I know life can happen, but all we can do is do our best. So I know where you are coming from, and I think you have a lovely mare from what I can tell.

I mean, where I am at, I see people breeding horses who don't even ride the horses they have. They never train their foals. Others raise foals so they can sell them for $150. It's sad but true. So if I one responsible person wants to raise a foal, I don't see a problem with it. Why should all the unresponsible people get to bring all the animals in the world? Why should we have to clean up their messes all the time and not breed an animal we actually want to breed for ourselves?


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

"Total scrotal width is smaller in 2- to 3-year-old stallions than in their older counterparts. Stallions that are 2 or 3 years old are expected to have smaller daily sperm outputs and spermatozoa reserves. 
Because of this sexual immaturity, 2-year-old stallions should be limited to breeding a small number of mares, if any at all. Otherwise, conception rates will be undesirable because of low spermatozoa numbers, and the stallion may develop a low sex drive from overuse. Even though spermatozoa production begins as early as 12 to 14 months of age in most colts, results of numerous research trials recommend waiting until the stallion is 3 years old before using him as a breeding stallion."
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2085/ANSI-3922web.pdf

There is a good chance that the stallion won't even produce enough sperm for your mare to conceive. If you have your heart set on breeding this pair, it would probably be in your best interest to wait a year or two for the stallion to properly mature.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

> TO ALL THE PEOPLE TELLING HER NOT TO BREED: I have a question for you guys, since you say no to breeding and yes to adoption for horses, does that mean if someone told you they were going to get pregnant because they wanted a baby but them and their spouse weren't the prettiest things you would tell them they were just mediocre and they should adopt because there are thousands and thousands of babies up for adoption?
> ​


Are you serious? 0_0
You cannot compare the two. :wink:


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

Good luck on the foal. Its your mare if you wanna breed her go right ahead. You already know the expense it seems like.


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

i think its best to buy a nice foal from aucton, who needs a home, rather than putting another horse that may very well become unwanted later in life, into the world.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

ok i can't tell you not to and i wont. because i know why you want to. and i did the dumb thing and bought a horse that was already pregnant. however she is happy and sound (not the best on confirmation and i never seen the sire) however i got a healthy happy colt out of it! and i love him to bits. i just want to post to make sure you know the risks of breeding YOUR mare things can go wrong although they don't often happen (it can) and i was lucky it didn't happen to me as i didn't have the expenses for it. especially if she is maiden. you could loose the foal, or your mare or both. and i know thats not what you want. but as long as you are ready to consider these options and ready to pay the bills and buy the exspensive hay (thats not fescue) then i say alright. since i know i wanted to go through the experience of having a foal. and it was marvelous. and i am learning how to train him daily as i research more and more.

i hope whichever decision you choose is a good one for you and your mare! = )


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

AnnaLover said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I have fully considered this, and there really isn't really way to prevent something horrible like that happening, is there?.. but I'm sure that all of the people who are all for breeding Penny, would have an interest in the foal if I had to sell it. As for once it becomes a senior, I'm not sure how I could prevent something like that from happening, because after all, life happens.. Are you saying I should have someone as back up for the foal? Because otherwise I'm not sure how I could plan for something like that to happen... :-|


Really simple. IF your mare is truly breeding quality then go out and find a proven stallion who has been proven and has a good reputation. That way the resulting foal will be marketable. Breeding a mare any mare to a un proven 2yo is not producing a marketable foal.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I was expecting to come on here to find a so-so to ugly mare and a mediocre stud, but I am pleasently surprised. Both stallion and mare are pretty decent representations of the QH!

That said, with the economy the way it is and the horse market in the toilet, I'm hesitant to encourage the breeding of any mare, stellar or otherwise. I would like to get a replacement out of my mare (who is well built with a good pedigree and temperment), but I just can't justify it right now. I have 4-5 years before she'll be too old to be a "maiden mare" for safe breeding, so I'm waiting.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

nrhareiner said:


> Really simple. IF your mare is truly breeding quality then go out and find a proven stallion who has been proven and has a good reputation. That way the resulting foal will be marketable. Breeding a mare any mare to a un proven 2yo is not producing a marketable foal.


Very true. I would only risk it if I planned on keeping the foal, or keeping it until it was trained for riding or showing. But really, you can spend another $200-400 on a stud fee and get a proven stallion.

Heck, spend the $350 and BUY yourself a decent foal already on the ground, lol. QH foals here in Arkansas are going for $50 to $400, with papers and some even have decent conformation, ;-).


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Icrazyaboutu said:


> TO ALL THE PEOPLE TELLING HER NOT TO BREED: I have a question for you guys, since you say no to breeding and yes to adoption for horses, does that mean if someone told you they were going to get pregnant because they wanted a baby but them and their spouse weren't the prettiest things...


Sure, if they were going to put the baby up for sale, or only wanted a baby that could win beauty pagents :?.

Thanks for giving me a good laugh today :lol:.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> I was expecting to come on here to find a so-so to ugly mare and a mediocre stud, but I am pleasently surprised. Both stallion and mare are pretty decent representations of the QH!


Just want to note that the pictures in the OP aren't of the stud - That is his sire. The stud is only 2yo and I am guessing not shown.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> I have bred many mares and have not spent more than $100 on any of them*.*


Really? Including feed all year, vaccinations, vitamins and minerals... No more than $100? ****, man. I need to move.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> I guess I'm kind of cold hearted but if I had $100 or $10000 to spare I would probably put a horse down before spending thousands of dollars on a hundred dollar foal.
> .


Ah, I wouldn't say that's cold hearted. I'd say it's resonable.
It's also why I don't believe in breeding $100 foals. 

That's a general statement, Kevin. I'm not saying that's what you raise, but unfornately, too many people do. Hence why we have so many horses like we do that have no one; no one wants to put money into a mongrel (or a horse with crappy papers) horse so when people breed these mediocre horses, it's just feeding that vicious cycle.

You don't have to agree with, that's fine. It's all IMO, and nothing's going to change that.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Here is a prime example of people who really need to stop breeding. These horses have been for sale since fall and the add then stated they needed these gone b/c the mare where bred back and they needed the space. Really WHY did you breed the mare back then???
Thoroughbred Yearlings And Weanlings


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I know someone exactly like that nrhareiner, she breeds Bashkir Curlies, Bashkir crosses and minis. She has about fifteen foals and more than that coming next year. A few of her two year olds got pregnant. She has a mini stud in with a donkey stud. So she's not sure who the father of all the mini mare's foals are until they are born. 

She can get money for the minis (even though they aren't registered) but she hasn't sold a Bashkir since last spring. She's got them advertised but no one wants to pay $3000 to $4000 in Ohio for a Bashkir right now. Yet she still breeds and complains about having too many horses on not enough acreage. 

On a side note, I don't mind breeders as long as they have common sense. If you've got a herd of horses and you can't sell the foals stop breeding, it's not working. 



The the original poster, I hope your baby works for you. You have a very beautiful mare. I'd love to see pics of the stud.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

WSArabians said:


> Ah, I wouldn't say that's cold hearted. I'd say it's resonable.
> It's also why I don't believe in breeding $100 foals.
> 
> That's a general statement, Kevin. I'm not saying that's what you raise, but unfornately, too many people do. Hence why we have so many horses like we do that have no one; no one wants to put money into a mongrel (or a horse with crappy papers) horse so when people breed these mediocre horses, it's just feeding that vicious cycle.
> ...


I have two yearlings that would only bring $100 at an auction but I won't consider selling them untill they are started and probably not even then. What will probably happen is I will get them broke pretty well and then sell the broke horses that I have now which will be between 6 and ten years old.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> I have two yearlings that would only bring $100 at an auction but I won't consider selling them untill they are started and probably not even then. What will probably happen is I will get them broke pretty well and then sell the broke horses that I have now which will be between 6 and ten years old.


That's probably the best thing to do, too. Lot of people will pay good money for a good broke horse, but there isn't ANYTHING out there for weanlings or yearlings. No one wants to feed them until they're ready to be broke. 
I've got three coming up two year olds (although someone did come out to look at one last weekend, waiting to hear back) that will mostly likely stick around until they're started under saddle or least finished all their ground work. 
Way it's looking, the weanlings I have now could be here until they are two or three and either got finished saddle work or are started under saddle. Good horses are worth good money. 
It's all the crap weanlings and yearlings that have nowhere to go and end up in h*ll. Bad breedings, and those bleeding hearts in American that shut down the processing plants. I STILL can't get over. Off topic, though. haha.


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## DakotaLuv (Mar 21, 2009)

WSArabians said:


> Well, as I'm sure you figured out, breeding is a touchy subject on this forum. Why? Because of all the $50 foals out there. Because of influx of crap horses. Because of the 100,000 backyard breeder's who think that their sick hocked, long back, ewe necked COLOURED stallion will produce wonderful foals of COLOUR.
> 
> In my opinion (Although I know you didn't ask for it, but that's what you get for posting a public forum)? It IS your choice. Right or wrong, it's ultimately up to you. I don't agree with it, but hey, that's my opinion.
> 
> ...


I can't believe you posted this. lol 

You say anyone who knows anything about breeding wouldn't offer there stallion at 2 years old, let alone with a stud fee of $350. Yet on your website it says your stallion had his first foals born in 2007... when he was born in 2004 himself. That means you bred him as a 2 yo. Your stud fee for non purebred horses is $500. So he was born in 04' and his lower price stud fee is $150 more than this other stallion's. Is that a huge difference? You also say there is no way in h*ll you would breed any of your mares to an unproven 2 yo stud...yet...this is strange you bred two of your mares to him as a 2 yo??? At two years old I don't think he has accomplished much and looking at your website it looks like even clear now today he hasn't accomplished anything! And above you ADMIT he won't make it to the show ring and has flawed conformation so now that he's put flawed confo. foals on the ground, you are just now deciding to geld! Are you kidding? The only thing he or any of your mares have going for them is decent/average conformation and great pedigrees! Oh boy!

Then you ask the op why she doesn't show her mare...well looking at your website, yet again, I find something strange. You don't show most/if any of your broodmares! You even wrote that one had an injury that prevented her from being shown yet she was expecting a foal in 09!!

Now the op said she has an awesome pedigree and looking at pics she has great conformation. This sounds just like yourself. If that above post that you wrote doesn't show some of the most hypocritical crap I have seen then I don't know what does. It would be wise to look at yourself before you hammer down on someone else. You and the op have more in common than you think, just you're breeding several foals a year AND selling and she just wants one to keep.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I have no problems selling my weanlings. I have most of them sold before they are even bred. There is still a good market for good well bred foals.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

DakotaLuv said:


> I can't believe you posted this. lol
> 
> You say anyone who knows anything about breeding wouldn't offer there stallion at 2 years old, let alone with a stud fee of $350. Yet on your website it says your stallion had his first foals born in 2007... when he was born in 2004 himself. That means you bred him as a 2 yo. Your stud fee for non purebred horses is $500. So he was born in 04' and his lower price stud fee is $150 more than this other stallion's. Is that a huge difference? You also say there is no way in h*ll you would breed any of your mares to an unproven 2 yo stud...yet...this is strange you bred two of your mares to him as a 2 yo??? At two years old I don't think he has accomplished much and looking at your website it looks like even clear now today he hasn't accomplished anything! And above you ADMIT he won't make it to the show ring and has flawed conformation so now that he's put flawed confo. foals on the ground, you are just now deciding to geld! Are you kidding? The only thing he or any of your mares have going for them is decent/average conformation and great pedigrees! Oh boy!
> 
> ...


He was three, and yeah, it wasn't supposed to happen. He was in the care of somene else at the time, nothing much I could do to prevent it. It wasn't an EDUCATED choice, but a mistake. 
Khoda was never bought as a Halter horse, but a performance horse. Through training and other work his top line didn't get to where I wanted it to be for a Working Western horse. His foals, not one of them, have gotten his topline. The mares I've got all make up for his conformation flaws. 

Almost every one of my broodmares were purchased just last summer, or the year before which doesn't really give me a enough time to train and then show them, considering the background some of them have had. Bree sustained her injury before I purchased her and just because she's got some scarring on her back leg, doesn't mean she won't produce National Quality foals. 
Several were gifted last year as well, which won't ever be bred or shown due to health/conformation flaws.
Though I'm sure the ones that have shown (Top Three in Scottsdale, WB Champion Colt) probably shouldn't be bred anyway, right? 

Most of the foals aren't actually mine, if you happened to open your pitiful little mind and read the pages carefully. But whichever. There's a difference between things happening, and doing things on purpose. Please feel free to reply if you want, just keep in mind that I haven't got any use for anything you say or do, as I tend to feel that way about a lot of people who read things how they want or make them as they see fit. 
Anyhow, carry on, my little one.


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

I would just like to say that this thread was the perfect compliment to a bowl of popcorn tonight. I'll be back tomorrow with another bowl... or 2


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

WSArabians said:


> Please feel free to reply if you want, just keep in mind that I haven't got any use for anything you say or do, as I tend to feel that way about a lot of people who read things how they want or make them as they see fit.
> Anyhow, carry on, my little one.


And how do you think I feel about the negative things you and everyone else has said?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

My Beau said:


> I would just like to say that this thread was the perfect compliment to a bowl of popcorn tonight. I'll be back tomorrow with another bowl... or 2


 
haha! I concur. :lol:


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

My Beau said:


> I would just like to say that this thread was the perfect compliment to a bowl of popcorn tonight. I'll be back tomorrow with another bowl... or 2


It is entertaining, isn't it? I love coming on and finding 10 new ridiculously pathetic posts every day! :wink:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> And how do you think I feel about the negative things you and everyone else has said?





> It is entertaining, isn't it? I love coming on and finding 10 new ridiculously pathetic posts every day! :wink:


Apparently you love it and find it entertaining.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

AnnaLover said:


> And how do you think I feel about the negative things you and everyone else has said?


Lemme give you a little tip. I'm sure you've heard it before. Opinions are like a$$holes. And you're gonna get alot of them. Read 'em, try 'em, and if they don't work, toss 'em. 
Getting all worked up and worrying about what some knothead may or may not think about you isn't worth your time or effort or peace of mind. 
I'm not saying you should develop a "[blank] the world attitude" but it does help to have a good healthy dose of it because people are only worth what we make them, and dwelling on negative things people said or did isn't hurting them, only you. Let it slide. And yeah, absolutely use this advice on me, too. I do half the time. :lol:

That being said, if it's worthwhile advice, even if it's hard to swallow, give it a good long look. As it's been said before, this forum (and more so, half of it's members whom you've no doubt identified) is particular about breeding beacuse of the amount of meat horses that we have, especially now with America's bleeding heart, that have no where to go and live sufferingly because they plants are all shut down. 

Now, that isn't your fault. It isn't my fault. Let's blame the government, they're a great scapegoat. But is there really a need to produce one more horse when there are so many that are screwed already. Again, hardly your fault. I will admit I've got a bit of the "save the world" syndrome (aside from when it comes to shutting down horse plants) so I just really don't like to see people breeding horses unnessairly. 

I'd rather see you wait a bit, seeing if you couldn't breed to his sire instead the colt instead, or even waiting a year or two and see how the horse market picks up. It'd be safer and better for everyone involved, IMO.

I've no doubt I come across as very snarky, sarcastic, or downright rude sometimes because... Well, h*ll, because I actually am and that's something I just can't really change, so I do apologize if I hurt your feelings (remember - opinions; that's just mine!) but as I stated before, if you do decide to go ahead with this foaling, I hope everything works out and you end up with a happy healthy foal and momma.

Ultimately, in the end, it's your decision, your time, your money, your horse, and I'm sure you'll figure it out in the end when the best time will be and to what stallion. All I'm saying is give it a lot of though and consideration.


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## DakotaLuv (Mar 21, 2009)

I don't believe that those were accidental breedings, but whatever, you wouldn't admit they were purposeful anyway. It says he had 2 foals born in 2007, so if he was born in 2004 that means he would have been bred as a 2 yo. unless the mares were bred in early 2007 which is unlikely since mares generally won't show heat signs until late April. So you don't like his topline, but you still use(d) him? You don't like it so much that you are gelding him? You say your mares can correct that yet the foals aren't even old enough and fully matured to tell if they were actually corrected...just like your stud turned out to be. Now as a breeder you obviously know that unwanted traits are easily passed down from one generation to the next. Can they be corrected? Sometimes, not always. If you are breeding as responsibly as you act then you wouldn't even be taking the chance of his unwanted topline. Some of your mares are halter bred, but the stud is performance bred? Where does that leave the foals? 

You're saying you still bred your mares when they hadn't been shown. Looks like you have/had no intention of training and showing them. I don't care how long you've had them, many of them have been bred and haven't been shown...how do you know those mares aren't duds? So don't you think it's hypocritical to say she should show her mare before breeding when you haven't shown yours and have raised foals out of them? Just because they have potential doesn't mean they'll make it to the top. Then you say just because Bree is injured and unshown doesn't mean she won't produce National Quality foals...doesn't mean she will either and because she is unshown or unproven and won't be able to be shown, means the foal will be out of two unproven parents. And i'm not saying that the resulting foal has no chance of making a national champion, but seriously, the chances are slim. Heck, anyone could say that. 

I don't care if you breed your horses, they're beautiful, you've obviously invested a lot in them, and you have a right to breed them. Same goes for the op, beautiful mare, sounds like a nice stud, it's your right to breed her. I think it's truly pathetic when someone sits there being so hypocritical, putting this girl down when you are doing the same darn thing!!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ Remember the concientious ettiquette policy - Stay away from personal attacks.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Honestly, Dakota, you don't have to believe a thing I say. I promise it won't break my heart. As I said, your opinion really means squat to me and so long as I know the truth, that's fine. If you knew me well enough, you'd know I admit to a lot of stuff. 

I didn't say the mares CAN correct it, I said they didn't have his flaws. Khoda is both halter and Performance bred, not just halter. His sire has just wins in Halter, grandsire, greatgrandsire (on both sides) etc, all have wins in Performance as well, ranging from Cutting, Reining, Western Pleasure and Side Saddle. There are several reasons for the gelding of Khoda (which if I ever figure out you worthy to know, I'll be sure to let you know, until then, the rest of that is purely my business), his weak topline just a minor one. I won't even say with another year's training he couldn't win a performance class, I'm just not waiting.
Every mare, as well, has a combination of Halter and Performance pedigree. That's what those Khemosabi/Muscat/Aladdinn/Soldat/Bey Shah lines are for.

As for my future plans for them, sure glad you know what I'm doing! I'm sure you knwo what assumptions do. Several of them came from neglectful homes, are in training now. Unlike some people, I don't just throw a saddle on and ride. When the mind has been hurt, it's a long *** road to recovery and I don't rush that process.The breeding helped to put their minds at ease. I won't explain more, as I'm not sure you warrant the explanations nor do I care to type it all out. 
I never said she SHOULD show her mare, I simply asked why. Why NOT show a mare that's well broke, well bred, and hot, if they haven't had any mental or emtional setbacks? That's an honest question.
Anyways, I think I'm pretty done with you. I've explained most of it to Anna, I believe. 

As previously stated, there are greivious differences. But the closed mind won't see it, will it? Anyhows, best of luck with yourself.


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## DakotaLuv (Mar 21, 2009)

If my opinion meant nothing to you, you wouldn't reply. I've said enough...must rest my closed, pitiful little mind. Oh and thanks!...best of luck with yourself as well!


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

FWIW, Dakota, my mares ten to show heat signs by early March. And if mares are kept under lights they can show heat signs throughout the whole year. How else do you think halter babies are born in January?

On topic, I'm only going to say that while the mare is very pretty and doesn't seem to have any glaring faults, I would still either not breed or wait a few years. What's the harm in waiting? Then maybe the stallion will have done something and the resulting foal will be more marketable. I personally don't think anything but the very best should be breeding right now, but whatever.


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## DakotaLuv (Mar 21, 2009)

kassierae said:


> FWIW, Dakota, my mares ten to show heat signs by early March. And if mares are kept under lights they can show heat signs throughout the whole year. How else do you think halter babies are born in January?


Hun, I know exactly how it works. You put the mares under lights in short daylight days to stimulate the long daylight of late spring/summer causing the mare to come into season earlier that year. Breeders who do that are generally looking for early foals that will be able to show because most associations make it to where all foals are considered yearlings on Jan. 1 so if you have a late foal....there ya go. I have 5 mares all start showing heat signs in late April. It depends on where you are as well. Somewhere that gets a lot of sun, not a lot of rain, clouds, etc. will have longer daylight...sooner heat cycles. Somewhere that get's more foggy or cloudy weather will have shorter daylight because it blocks the sun...meaning it will take longer for the mares to cycle. It's not the same for every area.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

If you think that your mare has outstanding conformation, why not breed to a stud that has proven himself with foals that are on the ground, as well as in the show arena? For a little bit more you could get the bonus of getting a good idea of what you could get. 


Just my two cents  Good luck.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

ShutUpJoe said:


> I know someone exactly like that nrhareiner, she breeds Bashkir Curlies, Bashkir crosses and minis. She has about fifteen foals and more than that coming next year. A few of her two year olds got pregnant. She has a mini stud in with a donkey stud. So she's not sure who the father of all the mini mare's foals are until they are born.
> 
> She can get money for the minis (even though they aren't registered) but she hasn't sold a Bashkir since last spring. She's got them advertised but no one wants to pay $3000 to $4000 in Ohio for a Bashkir right now. Yet she still breeds and complains about having too many horses on not enough acreage.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah...I know of some Curly breeders and they think the same way. They think that they can get 3,000 + for them and thats not it at all. Just shows that breeding counts, though: I just had a friend sell a Mead Curly mare for $3,000, and she had been sitting for three or four years and had major holes in her training. Someone was still willing to pay, and she was located in Illinois.


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## Cheshire (Oct 17, 2009)

I'm going to second what some other people have said...if you're dead set on breeding her, if I were you I'd at least invest in a stud who has some nice babies on the ground already and a bit of a show record under his belt. That way you run less of a risk of having any unwanted surprises, and this foal can really be something special. Just IMO. Best of luck.


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