# Brown vs. Bay



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Brown and bay are both mutations of the agouti gene, which works to restrict black pigment to the "hard" points of the horse. In a bay horse, this leaves us with your typical reddish body with black legs, mane and tail. In a brown horse, the black is restricted differently, resulting in more black hairs over the majority of the body (think sooty bay) and black hard points, as well as working to lighten the "soft" points further than the body is - the muzzle, the flank, under the elbows, under the tail, around the eyes.


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## MyJumper (Jul 10, 2012)

So... basically everyone at my barn thinks I'm an idiot. 
In short my trainer yelled at me for telling one of the younger students that a horse was brown (He is obviously brown). Because according to her brown horses only have brown points and any horse with black points are bay. 
And everyone else laughed and told me one day I'll realize that I'm dead wrong.

But brown horses can have black points correct? And if a horse lacks black points, wouldn't he be liver chestnut?


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## Roanwatch (Apr 1, 2014)

Honestly, I believe you are right. He sounds brown to me.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

This horse is brown, not bay. He has black points.

This horse is brown, as well.


Another brown.

And this is a brown, too.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

The official term for it is "Seal Brown" or "Seal Bay" and there are multitudes of articles on the internet you could direct your trainer and others at your barn to. Even Wikipedia talks about the distinction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_brown_(horse). The easiest identifier are the orangey cinnamony points on the muzzle, eyes, flanks and arm pits. Like Drafty said, coat colours can vary from year to year. My mare is usually so dark she looks black, but this year, she's lighter, giving her a more "bayish" appearance.

Last year.








This year.


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## MyJumper (Jul 10, 2012)

Thank you everyone.
I thought that brown's had black points, but everyone at my barn was making me second guess myself.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

The horse you're describing certainly sounds brown (which I was under the impression was as official of a term as Seal Bay?) to me xD


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