# Prospective Purchase - 4y OTTB for Eventing



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, 

Why was he 'retired' at 4yo? When was he started? What makes you think he has muscle atrophy from doing nothing, if he only came OT a few weeks ago? His chest and forelegs look very well muscled to me. Not much over his hind quarters though.

He is a bit 'over at the knee' and standing under himself in front a little. No, at his age that's not due to immaturity. It's not necessarily unchangeable though, may be(commonly is) due to hoof form/function, as a 4yo racehorse he likely has little development to his caudal feet yet. Can't tell anything about hooves as such because they're in grass.

He is a little 'outsie' in his front legs, which could be due to being tight through the shoulders - bodywork could fix that. 

He is quite posty looking in the back legs though, which is an unchangeable 'conformation' thing. That is what would most concern me about him, as you're wanting a horse that can be a high performance athlete.


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

He retired because he hadddddd 2 races and 5 trials and was absolutely shocking. I know his trainer and he said "he's too quiet and chilled out, he doesn't care about racing - it's his downfall as a racehorse" lol. His only claim to fame was the fact that they'd put the less experienced track riders on him if they were nervous or couldn't ride as well, as he was stead and quiet. 

Atrophy/wastage may have been the wrong word - I mean he's not as muscled as he would be in full work, ie limited topline ect. 

He kept standing under himself as the handler kept having to push him back as he wanted to get all up in her business (not nasty, just curiosity), he still needs a few manners. He was standing pretty funky so it was hard to get decent pics. I would've liked to have stretched him out and stood him up correctly on concrete.... butttt we were short on time unfortunately. :-(



loosie said:


> Hi,
> 
> Why was he 'retired' at 4yo? When was he started? What makes you think he has muscle atrophy from doing nothing, if he only came OT a few weeks ago? His chest and forelegs look very well muscled to me. Not much over his hind quarters though.
> 
> ...


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## Emeraldsprings (Mar 1, 2015)

Personally I think he's a nice looking horse. Certainly wouldn't call his legs "horrible", I have seen much worse come out of racing and go on to compete successfully. Does any horse ever have perfect conformation? I think people can get a bit carried away sometimes, like they need to prove their knowledge or something. On things like FB I mean. If he is sound I wouldn't be worrying too much about him.

The only things I could pick out were his front feet are slightly turned out in one pic. It could just be the way he's standing or even how he was trimmed last time. I knew a TB horse once with a turned in hind foot, until a good farrier balanced his foot correctly and he was perfect.
He's slightly over at the knee but many, many horses are tbh. It's better than back at the knee. His hind legs are quite under him in one photo but if he was being pushed back like you said then obviously that's natural.
I think he's a nice horse, good weight on him for being just out of racing. If his temperament suits you and he is sound then I wouldn't be too worried about what some strangers said on FB. Just my thoughts anyway, good luck!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

He looks quite straight in the hock and he's tied in at the knee - neither are things that I would want to see in a horse that I was buying specifically for something as tough on the limbs as eventing


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

Surprisingly he's not as straight as he looks in these photos - I think the main issue is that he was being made to rock back, so it made his legs look posty. I even said at the time "ugh - the way he's standing makes him look posty!" but he actually did have decent angles. Not amazing, but not posty.



jaydee said:


> He looks quite straight in the hock and he's tied in at the knee - neither are things that I would want to see in a horse that I was buying specifically for something as tough on the limbs as eventing


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm more concerned by him looking tied in at the knee. Horses with this defect can be less sure footed as they tend to stumble or the leg buckles and don't cope so well on sloping ground as one with correct knees. That's not such a deal if you're jumping on a nice level arena but could be a major one on the uneven and often sloping ground you get eventing
If you want to event always try to start out with a horse that's got everything in its favour


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

From these pictures alone, I would pass, from the reasons other posters have mentioned. I would argue that the legs are the most important part of an eventer, and his legs just aren't what I would want to rely on galloping across a course.

Also, I don't know why, but I just have a feeling that he has been off the track for longer than 3 weeks. Take this with a grain of rice, as I could be wrong, but he seems to already have gained a lot of weight for only being on pasture for 3 weeks (which, as far as I understand, if he was just tossed onto grass with no build-up to it, it was NOT a good thing!).

Also, with an OTTB, they typically need 'down time' to just chill out from the track and become a 'normal' horse. I am assuming he did not get that as he is in an all purpose saddle doing round pen work just 3 weeks after being brought off the track. There are varying opinions on actually giving 'down time' after coming off track, but between being tossed onto pasture and this, I would also pass.

Other posters, please correct me if I'm wrong on either of these points, but they are both something I would be wary of!


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## mckenzies (May 26, 2017)

ClearDonkey said:


> *Also, with an OTTB, they typically need 'down time' to just chill out from the track and become a 'normal' horse.* I am assuming he did not get that as he is in an all purpose saddle doing round pen work just 3 weeks after being brought off the track. There are varying opinions on actually giving 'down time' after coming off track, but between being tossed onto pasture and this, I would also pass.
> 
> Other posters, please correct me if I'm wrong on either of these points, but they are both something I would be wary of!


While I agree that he seems to be off track for much longer than 3 weeks, the bolded statement is not necessarily true. While it is beneficial to give a horse to acclimate to new surroundings, if there is any, I know people that have put OTTBs to be restarted within 3 days of bringing them home. The "down time" aspect is very controversial, and while I agree they should have (and honestly deserve) time to relax and enjoy being a horse, it's not needed :smile:


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I'd say if he passes the PPE, buy him! 

Attitude is more important to me than a perfect build anyway. If he is willing and not difficult to ride, can accomplish a lot more than a "perfect" horse that is an idiot. 

He looks good, no glaring faults. His back end may be a tiny bit weaker than his front, but normal for OTTB. 

If I am being very picky, his elbows appear high and a bit straight. Have seen this on 4th level Dressage horse that was sound. 

Some horse need time to come down from the track, some don't. Had a friend with 5 OTTB and every one got less down time than the one before. #5 got one day off. 

At four with only a few races, wouldn't worry about down time. 

Just my two cents.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

If you've seen him in person and say in person he is very different from what the pictures portray...
Be smart and get a thorough PPE.
There is to much chance of him having some "damage" to joints and cartilage already done.
One errant bone chip, hairline fracture or such could put you behind the eight ball in soundness and usefulness for years and ruin a career.
Thorough PPE means by a qualified vet not just a friend regardless of how knowledgeable they are.
Just look at the many varied responses you have already had....

Personally, I am not making a argument for or against except for get a qualified vet and pay a neutral vet who does not know this horse nor the trainer, owner or sales agent and "owe" them anything.
A vet owes you, the person that is paying for their services, their honesty and professional opinion.

Good luck.
:runninghorse2:....
_that is my opinion._


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

He definitely did race only 3 weeks ago as I have his trial and raceform right in front of me. It's very common for horses to get thrown out to pasture after they've finished racing, and as we have had a particularly good weather season, the grass is fantastic. His weight just proves to me he is a decently good doer.

The reason he has an AP saddle is because I asked to see him lunged with a saddle. I don't consider that 'work' as it was shorter than 10 minutes. 

If I get him, he will have 6 months downtime in a herd. I don't just plan to start him straight away. I have had ottbs before. 



ClearDonkey said:


> From these pictures alone, I would pass, from the reasons other posters have mentioned. I would argue that the legs are the most important part of an eventer, and his legs just aren't what I would want to rely on galloping across a course.
> 
> Also, I don't know why, but I just have a feeling that he has been off the track for longer than 3 weeks. Take this with a grain of rice, as I could be wrong, but he seems to already have gained a lot of weight for only being on pasture for 3 weeks (which, as far as I understand, if he was just tossed onto grass with no build-up to it, it was NOT a good thing!).
> 
> ...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

If he isn't actually 'posty', as it looks in the pics, I'd go ahead & get a *thorough* PPE done on him. I'd also get a good bodyworker(maybe you will find a vet who's specialised & do all) to check him out too. The reason I didn't mention the 'tied in' knees is that the front-on shot shows his legs on an angle, not squarely(which will exaggerate the 'tied in' look), because they both turn out. Because of, as mentioned, tightness through elbow or shoulder, which might well be easily addressed with a good chiro or such. 

I think for a lot of people/situations, 'perfect conformation' is not important & shouldn't be the 'be all'. So I agree with the person that said attitude is often more important than 'confo faults'. Generally. I also don't think his legs look anything like terrible. BUT you are looking for a horse to be a high performance athlete, doing physically difficult & hard on the body work. Therefore, I would indeed be very particular about body probs & 'faults'. Not to mention, a good trainer/handler can change a bad attitude for the better, but they can't change how the horse is made/injured.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Sheltie said:


> It's very common for horses to get thrown out to pasture after they've finished racing, and as we have had a particularly good weather season, the grass is fantastic. His weight just proves to me he is a decently good doer.


My worry isn't the fact that he is on pasture, just that he could've possibly just been tossed onto rich grass. I personally don't risk foundering a horse by doing that, and that is my worry that he may have had a founder episode - check for founder lines on the hoof. Not a huge deal if it was minor, I just worry about that as I have had founder scares.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I've seen this horse in the flesh. That's me holding him in the first photo.

The first thing that struck me about him is his HUGE legs. The photos genuinely don't show how much bone he has, and I think there's a bit of an optical illusion going on that makes him look tied in below the knee in the photos, because when I zoom in on them I can see where his colour is fading into the background a bit.

The second thing that struck me (bearing in mind my horse is a bit posty) is that he has FANTASTIC angles in his hind legs, and a shoulder that's close to ideal for jumping.

This is NOT my horse, I would not encourage Sheltie to get a horse that isn't suited to her purpose, and I told her that if she didn't get him I would. I'm not even in the market for another, I still have my ottb to retrain (if she would ever stop trying to take her own legs off....). I LIKE THIS HORSE. I like him a LOT.

He is VERY slightly knock kneed, but not to a degree that's likely to cause him soundness issues. I've already advised Sheltie that she should take care with him, so as to not blow up his joints, but being that he raced on those legs and is sound he should hold up to what she wants to do with him.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

ClearDonkey said:


> My worry isn't the fact that he is on pasture, just that he could've possibly just been tossed onto rich grass. I personally don't risk foundering a horse by doing that, and that is my worry that he may have had a founder episode - check for founder lines on the hoof. Not a huge deal if it was minor, I just worry about that as I have had founder scares.


What has caused you to speculate that? Actually racehorses commonly suffer laminitis(albeit frequently 'sub clinical' & not recognised) due to their management & high octane diets, so whether or not he's been 'thrown out' to pasture, he may have it anyway, and 'founder rings' on feet wouldn't be showing after only a few weeks.


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

This is a darkened, close up of his front legs. I am a *little* concerned..... but how does it look to you guys?


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

Another close up of his fronts. His legs... actually kinda scare me.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I like him. I think he looks pretty good. Nothing really jumps out at me, no huge faults. His front bothers me a little but could be the way he's standing??? Not sure... Get a PPE & see how it goes! Plus, he's only raced a few times, I think he won't need much 'down time' if any.


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## Sheltie (Jun 21, 2013)

I *think* I'm going to pass on him. I've found a better conformed gelding. I posted him in the confo thread so we'll see what people think.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

loosie said:


> What has caused you to speculate that? Actually racehorses commonly suffer laminitis(albeit frequently 'sub clinical' & not recognised) due to their management & high octane diets, so whether or not he's been 'thrown out' to pasture, he may have it anyway, and 'founder rings' on feet wouldn't be showing after only a few weeks.


I was just going off of the wording of OP saying he had been thrown out to pasture. Could be not a real concern, I just know when my parents hurried putting our horses on grass, our farrier was really concerned about the founder lines one of them was showing. 

OTTB's are a dime a dozen, and I guess I would rather get one out of a stall, and work him slowly onto pasture myself to know their are no problems. Also why I would pass on this guy, with his funky knees.


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## Drewz (Jun 3, 2017)

I didn't read other opinions.

I would Pass, simply because you could find a much better prospect easily.

BUT if you're IN Love or believe in him, get him!!

I recently adopted an ottb with a tendon injury... Could've found a sound one cheaper but I love him and wouldn't trade him for anything.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Sheltie said:


> This guy walked off the track 3 weeks ago and has been put out to pasture ever since. He's 4 years old and 16hh...ish. He is a *typical* tb, with sharky withers and he's all gangly at the minute with muscle wastage from doing nothing.
> 
> I went and viewed him yesterday and in the flesh, he was very impressive, my experienced friend agreed there was nothing horribly wrong with him, as she came with me to view him.


Were there any updates on him? did you end up purchasing him?


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## LTG (Aug 24, 2013)

I would have said he didn't have enough angle to his hing leg, imo. Very straight and Post-Legged. - don't know how this translates to Eventing but it's a pretty bad fault imo.

As for his front legs - yes he is cut below the knee - but his legs are straight. Check the circumference of his cannon bone and if it is sufficient it's not a problem. 

The overall horse I like a lot, he's a very solid and you can see from the photos his temperament is good / curious / playful - just make sure he's not an idiot !! 

His Withers are extremely pronounced, though he seems level-set. Maybe that's a good thing. Those withers can develop fantastic shoulders.

His Head and Neck are completely out of proportion and could lead to serious problems with balance.

For Eventing, I would Pass.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

@my2geldings she didn't buy him.


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