# Selling Kissing Spine Horse



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I've never dealt with "kissing spine" personally....
I think you need to figure out if you really want to sell the horse, need to sell the horse or want to keep the horse ride and enjoy the animal.
On a chance it might become problematic....:think:
Or not...:think:

I, myself would look at it as....
You have a new car.
Are you going to use and drive it, let it sit in the garage because something might happen or sell it and take a beating on price paid because it has some dust on it....
Risk factors....

So, I went and started to read to be better informed....
Big difference in which presentation of "kissing spine" you refer to and you did not specify...
Bigger difference in what it could mean in prognosis too...
_https://equinewellnessmagazine.com/kissing-spines/_
Were nerve blocks also done to make the diagnosis since it reads like x-rays are *not *proof positive....they are a indicator of.

Bottom line is it all is up to you.
If you need to sell, then either sell to this person at a loss...
Or continue to advertise and sell to someone else who vets and does not see a problem...
If you decide to keep the horse, then I would become pro-active in riding technique to reduce the risk of furthering the ailment if possible.
It sure sounds like there are treatment options out and about, some expensive, many are not and that this is manageable with a conscientious rider/owner astride and making decisions.
Me, I would be doing a serious exam though by a specialist in this not just a average equine vet.
Horse taken to a known center of care, that excels in spinal xrays and determination and planned treatment program outlined for the very best outcome.
Sure sounds like there are many horses moving around just fine with said diagnosis....
Get yourself as informed as you can before you jump, make the wrong decision and regret what you did.

As an aside....
Do you know how many horses I've seen vetted by different vets and no two make the same diagnosis or findings found?
Is your vet, the vet who did the xrays...are either specialists in lameness, spinal issue specific....
That is where if it were me I would start.
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I’ve never personally had a horse with KS. With that said, I don’t think I would ever buy a horse that has a known issue of KS, but that’s just me. 

Some horses do fine with appropriate treatment and achieve great things; others do not. 

If you had planned on selling this horse, I don’t see how KS would change your mind on why you were selling him in the first place. (Why were you selling him anyway?) Yes, it may certainly have an affect on his price point but it is still up to you where you want to price him.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

jumpingpony said:


> Hi guys!
> I'm trying to sell one my horses. During the pre-purchase exam, the buyer had his vet take x-rays of the back and they found that my horse has kissing spines. Because of this, the buyer is now offering me only half of the asking price on said horse.


I keep thinking about this....
A "offer" was made....
A "counter-offer" can also be made or just give a amount you will not take less than...

A PPE is a negotiating ability for the buyer....
When you think about it....
If the prospective buyer was so concerned...*Would they have made a offer in the first place?* :think:
Think about that....truly think about it.
_Would you offer a sum of money for a horse who you believe is going to break down and become unusable, riddled with pain in a short period of time...?_
If it was me I would not... :|
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If this horse is worth a lot of money, I would invest in taking the horse to an equine facility that can take better radiographs and has board certified radiologists as well as equine specialists to look at him. If they say the horse has a problem, then he probably does. 

The appaloosa we had until she passed at age 30 was given to me by my sister. She had been attempting to sell the horse and had an offer that was acceptable but it was pending a pre-purchase exam. They potential buyer had a brand new graduate veterinarian examine the horse. 

He said that she was going blind and would be totally blind in a year. 

I took her in. She had great vision for the 20 years that I owned her. Somebody missed out on a great horse.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I agree with getting better X rays done but whether you sell for less based on the ones you have or new ones is something you have to decide for yourself.
Keeping the horse will cost you money over time so if you sell now for less you're going to recoup that money by way of what you save in costs.
Operations to 'fix' the problem have an increasingly high success rate so that's worth considering
Your horse might just have a constant discomfort and is tolerant of it to the point that you aren't noticing a problem but that's not to say that he wouldn't perform better without it and that it won't get worse


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

horselovinguy said:


> I keep thinking about this....
> A "offer" was made....
> A "counter-offer" can also be made or just give a amount you will not take less than...
> 
> ...



Thanks for this advice! I never really thought about it that way, all I was thinking about was how much money I would lose if I accept their offer.


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

Thank you everyone for the input. 

I don't personally know the vet who did the x-rays for the potential buyer or whether he is a specialist or anything. I will try to find a specialist and ask them for some more opinions before deciding what I want to do with the horse. 

To answer someone's question on why I'm selling the horse. I had originally bought him with the intention of selling him at some point in the future, say after 2-3 years. But then the potential buyer saw him and really likes him, she tried him and decided to do the vet check. 



jaydee said:


> Your horse might just have a constant discomfort and is tolerant of it to the point that you aren't noticing a problem but that's not to say that he wouldn't perform better without it and that it won't get worse


I think that this is a really great point. My vet did say when he did the pre-purchase that the horse is very tolerant to pain.


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## Kriva (Dec 11, 2015)

So your vet did a PPE recently and didn't see the same thing that another vet saw a short time later? How well do you know the person wanting to buy him? 

I've never thought about it until reading this, but couldn't someone have a less-than-perfect PPE result specifically to get a good deal on a horse? I mean, there are some shady people out there. I hate to think that way about people but it could happen. You aren't supposed to use the sellers vet because they could be covering something up for the owner, but at the same time, wouldn't it be possible for someone to somehow get a vet to say something was wrong with the horse so that the buyer could then get a good deal on a good horse? 

I'm not saying that's what these people have done! I don't want to accuse anyone of anything! The question just got me to thinking...:confused_color:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

From the buyer's point of view, as a straight up buyer, not looking to devalue the horse with a bad PPE, I wouldn't buy the horse with Kissing Spine for any amount of money. It would be a 'walk away now' issue. So, since they've made an offer anyhow, I think you need to look at whether they just like him so much they'll take him anyway or whether they know that's the type of DX that will get his price slashed. At this point you need to either cut your losses or spend the money to have a specialist go over him to give you firm info and a management plan, so that you can cut his price, disclose the issue to potential buyers and know how to deal with him in the mean time. Maybe with good management he could be a good horse for you for some time to come. Maybe not, and you need to move him out while you can or maybe you'll keep him until he's old and a pasture puff. 

Right now, as an owner you don't have enough info to make a good, informed decision on what you want to do. So bottom line is, how much do YOU like the horse? Well enough to spend the extra money in diagnostics? Not enough to spend the money? Where do you come down on all this? That's what will tell you what to do.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I would think a horse with kissing spine would be painful on palpation and cold backed under saddle. 

I knew a horse that could not be ridden because if you pressed on his back he would have an extreme reaction.

I personally would not buy a horse with kissing spine regardless of price. I'm sure most horses with the disorder go undiagnosed, unless there is sensitivity in the back or a reason to do diagnostics. 

Why did the buyer request x rays of his back? It seems like a strange place to x ray unless you are suspicious of back pain. Did the buyer x ray legs as well?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

4horses said:


> Why did the buyer request x rays of his back? It seems like a strange place to x ray unless you are suspicious of back pain. Did the buyer x ray legs as well?


This is a very good and pertinent question, why was a back x-ray done? How were the rest of the X-rays all clean?


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

Kriva said:


> So your vet did a PPE recently and didn't see the same thing that another vet saw a short time later? How well do you know the person wanting to buy him?
> 
> I've never thought about it until reading this, but couldn't someone have a less-than-perfect PPE result specifically to get a good deal on a horse? I mean, there are some shady people out there. I hate to think that way about people but it could happen. You aren't supposed to use the sellers vet because they could be covering something up for the owner, but at the same time, wouldn't it be possible for someone to somehow get a vet to say something was wrong with the horse so that the buyer could then get a good deal on a good horse?
> 
> I'm not saying that's what these people have done! I don't want to accuse anyone of anything! The question just got me to thinking...:confused_color:



When I bought the horse, I had him on trial a few days where he was ridden/jumped everyday. I had my vet do the PPE, we did the clinical, flexion and leg xrays. Everything was good and he showed no signs of pain or lameness. This was around September last year. The hose has been with me since then, in training - ridden/lunged 4-5 days a week. 

In January this year, I relocated for work and moved my horse to a sale/training barn. There are always clients coming to try horses and I'm not always here so I don't know when they saw my horse. A few weeks ago the trainer asked me if I would consider selling my horse, I said yes. The horse was tried and the potential buyer really liked him. I have never met this potential buyer. They did the vetting using my trainer vet (who is not my vet, I have a different vet from before that I still use). Trainer told me that everything was good, they did the clinical and leg xrays. I then asked her why she did the neck and back and she told me that it is standard for her to do it on all horses she sells. This for me seems very strange because I normally only do the legs, then the back if there are signs of problem. 

Also, to add, trainer tells me that potential buyer wants to use him as a leisure horse, to go on trail rides and take him to the beach and a little bit of jumping at home occasionally. She tells me my horse is perfect for the job because he's bombproof, is not afraid of anything and doesn't care where you take him.

Anyhow, trainer then tells me she can no longer sell the horse for the price I asked and said the buyer is only willing to pay half of what I asked, and also said that given the circumstance, the horse will never be more that what the buyer is offering now and that I should take the deal. 

I spoke with my vet and she said that the more you x-rays a horse, the more problem you're going to find, and that it's very rare to find a horse with 100% clean x-rays. She looked at the xrays and said that it is a case of kissing spine, she said if the horse does show signs of pain in the future then we can find proper treatment but advise me to continue working him since he's not showing any symptoms currently. 

Also as a said story, the trainer is also trying to sell one of her horse to me. She's been pushing to sell it for a while now and I've kept quiet about it. She had me "exercise" the horse for her 2-3 times before, it is a nice horse and I do like it, but trainer is also not being very forward about how much she wants for it - one day she says one price, next day she tells me a different price. So I don't know what game she's playing, I'm just a little bit sick of all of this to be honest.


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

4horses said:


> Why did the buyer request x rays of his back? It seems like a strange place to x ray unless you are suspicious of back pain. Did the buyer x ray legs as well?


I found it very suspicious also. I have never met the buyer, everything is handled through my trainer. I was told that the horse showed no signs of back pain during the physical exam when the back was pressed but trainer said she recommends all buyers to do back and neck x-rays on horses she sell. I'm not sure if they used the leg x-rays that I had done for the horse when I bought him last year or if they did a new set of that as well, but the legs are clean. 

I talked to my old trainer and she also said that it is strange for people to do neck and back x-rays unless the horse is worth a lot of money, say around 100K and more. For the price that I'm selling him for, she said it makes no sense to do a back or neck x-ray.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Are you paying your trainer to sell this horse for you?

If not, I don’t see why the buyers are dealing with her. They should be dealing with YOU.

The fact that they opted to do back X-rays is their choice. Any buyer can opt for any PPE testing they feel is necessary. A PPE will always find something ; no horse is perfect. 

If you are not willing to sell the horse for half his price, then don’t. But if you are, then do. 

The buyer can make an offer based on the PPE but you are still the seller. 

If your vet has confirmed the X-rays do show KS, then the horse has KS. But as you said, not showing any symptoms.

As far as your trainer wanting you to buy a horse she has, well, that’s up to you.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Hmm. Have read along this thread and my thoughts have bounced around too. 

First I have had a horse with kissing spine and would have been found before I bought him if back x-rays were done, which they were not. He was supposed to be my new Dressage horse and possible endurance horse. He failed both because of his KS. Would never knowingly buy another horse with KS BECAUSE of my conditions, unlevel ground, rocky hilly pasture, limited days to ride, prefer dressage seat. 

Nothing wrong with checking backs in a PPE even without signs of lameness. Best to know what one is buying

In my experience and research, the horses with KS do best in a forward seat and a light weight rider. They need regular work to keep the back strong and round. Exactly the way you are working him. He will most likely be fine for your to continue to ride as long as you ride correctly. 

IMO the new owner with limited riding would make this horse quickly unsound. He needs to be worked over his back on a regular schedule. Correct exercise is vital to his continued usability. 

I am a bit suspicious of this trainer that appears to be more focused on dealing horses than training people. Have been places like that where I was pressured to buy high dollar horses and sell my very nice mount, and I hated it. Horses are my passion and don't want my time riding to be ruined by a high-pressure salesman who is just trying to make money off of everyone. 

Personally I would keep the horse and change barns.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> Personally I would keep the horse and change barns.


I agree big time. The whole thing sounds suspicious.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

jumpingpony said:


> When I bought the horse, I had him on trial a few days where he was ridden/jumped everyday. I had my vet do the PPE, we did the clinical, flexion and leg xrays. Everything was good and he showed no signs of pain or lameness. This was around September last year. The horse has been with me since then, in training - ridden/lunged 4-5 days a week.
> 
> In January this year, I relocated for work and moved my horse to a sale/training barn. There are always clients coming to try horses and I'm not always here so I don't know when they saw my horse. A few weeks ago the trainer asked me if I would consider selling my horse, I said yes. The horse was tried and the potential buyer really liked him. I have never met this potential buyer. They did the vetting using my trainer vet (who is not my vet, I have a different vet from before that I still use). Trainer told me that everything was good, they did the clinical and leg xrays. I then asked her why she did the neck and back and she told me that it is standard for her to do it on all horses she sells. This for me seems very strange because I normally only do the legs, then the back if there are signs of problem.
> 
> ...





jumpingpony said:


> I found it very suspicious also. I have never met the buyer, everything is handled through my trainer. I was told that the horse showed no signs of back pain during the physical exam when the back was pressed but trainer said she recommends all buyers to do back and neck x-rays on horses she sell. I'm not sure if they used the leg x-rays that I had done for the horse when I bought him last year or if they did a new set of that as well, but the legs are clean.
> 
> I talked to my old trainer and she also said that it is strange for people to do neck and back x-rays unless the horse is worth a lot of money, say around 100K and more. For the price that I'm selling him for, she said it makes no sense to do a back or neck x-ray.





AnitaAnne said:


> Hmm. Have read along this thread and my thoughts have bounced around too.
> 
> First I have had a horse with kissing spine and would have been found before I bought him if back x-rays were done, which they were not. He was supposed to be my new Dressage horse and possible endurance horse. He failed both because of his KS. Would never knowingly buy another horse with KS BECAUSE of my conditions, unlevel ground, rocky hilly pasture, limited days to ride, prefer dressage seat.
> 
> ...





Celeste said:


> I agree big time. The whole thing sounds suspicious.


Based on all that's been written here, I agree with Keep the Horse and Change Barns. This whole thing doesn't pass my "smell test".


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Smells real fishy....

Here is another question for you...

Who gave you the digital link to show your vet?
Or did you have actual films handed to you?
Was the name of your horse on that "film" or was it smudged out or left undocumented? :think:

Now, depending upon that answer I would be moving barns, changing "trainers"....
Actually, with all you have shared...
I would be changing barns and trainers regardless...
I hate "pressure" tactics of buy/sell....
It also bothers me that although the "sale horses"are in the barn you are at, your horse was being looked at and commented on by customers when he is privately owned and _*was not*_ on the sales list so should not of been even set eyes upon...
Where I have worked in the past, the sale horses were not in the same barn or aisle as the privately owned animals to protect both groups of animals from touching hands or roaming eyes...
_The entire thing indeed smells fishy.._ :|
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

beau159 said:


> Are you paying your trainer to sell this horse for you?
> 
> If not, I don’t see why the buyers are dealing with her. They should be dealing with YOU.


No, I am not paying my trainer to sell my horse. I have asked for the contact details of the buyer but she is reluctant to give them to me. She tells me to message her whatever I want to say to the buyer and that she will forward it for me. I have never met buyer, I was also not there when the horse was tried and was only told afterwards that someone tried him that day - I did say that I would be open to him being tried, I though that she would at least let me know when. 



horselovinguy said:


> Smells real fishy....
> 
> Here is another question for you...
> 
> ...



The x-rays were given to me by my trainer, since the vet who did the PPE was her vet, she had a copy in her e-mail, which she forwarded to me. They do have my horse name written on the top left corner and the date of the xrays.

I've never been at a sales barn before so this is a first for me. My horse and the other private horse are stabled in one section of the barn, all they way at the end, but technically still the same barn so when buyers come they can still see the horses if they walk in far enough. 

I want to believe that the trainer has my best interest since I am a paying customer, but I also understand that selling horses is her business and she will benefit from me buying one of her horses. The past weeks she has really been pushing the sale and I hate feeling this pressure to the point where I don't even want to see her at the barn anymore just so I don't have to deal with it. 

At this time I have not yet decide on whether I will sell my horse or not. I love him to pieces and he tries his heart out for me. But at the same time now that I am made aware of his kissing spines, I'm also afraid of what could happen in the future. I guess I have a lot to think about over the weekend. The buyer also wants to take him on a week trial, I'm also not sure how I feel about this. 

Nonetheless, I have come to the decision that I will be moving to another barn at the end of the month if my horse is not sold. And if he is sold, then I think I'll take a small break from riding to de-stress from all of this before I begin looking for a new horse.


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## Dixiesmom (May 26, 2013)

If you agree to a trial, I would do it only if he doesn't leave the property which will probably turn them off the deal. It's all being handled so strangely, who knows what could happen and then they might return a symptomatic or injured horse to you.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

The trainer may not technically be supposed to profit from you selling your horse. She may actually be telling the buyer one price and you another with intent for her to keep the difference. There would be nothing wrong with that just so everyone involved is aware of what is going on.

Also, there is no way I would ever sell a horse to someone that I had not met and talked to.

This horse may go lame or have back problems in the future.

On the other hand, any horse may fall down and break a leg or get sick and die at any time.

If you are enjoying riding the horse now, I would keep him a while. You can sell him later if he doesn't work out for you. 

I would move to the new barn. If they are bringing in new horses all the time, your horse may catch a disease. 

I don't like pushy people.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

*But at the same time now that I am made aware of his kissing spines, I'm also afraid of what could happen in the future. I guess I have a lot to think about over the weekend. The buyer also wants to take him on a week trial, I'm also not sure how I feel about this.

*I have a real problem with that comment...
The buyer is so unconcerned about the "diagnosis" they want to take the horse for a weeks trial....
And run him into the ground?
They won't admit that but that is what is going to happen...a serious shake-down to occur.
Ride him, jump him and see what?
If they can make him sore or if he stays sound then maybe they will purchase him...or maybe not.
Yes, I've seen that happen too so the people can ride a really nice horse for some competition they otherwise have no mount for...
At the risk of your horses supposed "terrible condition" being launched into full-bore issues...
_No, just no...._
If they like the horse that much they may come ride him one more time in your presence, at your barn to make up their mind...that is what I would be telling said trainer/horse dealer.
They either purchase and pay the price you agree upon or take a hike...
Yea, seen both scenarios with horses who were very high-$$$$$$ mounts...and saw the riders ride the animal into the ground, make it sore and drug it so on return it appeared fine to come up dead sore 2 days later...then _*not*_ their problem. :icon_rolleyes:

It has also occurred to me that your trainer who is a dealer has put a substantially different price on the horses head to make more money in her pocket besides the commission she is going to take off of your allotted share..:|
Yea...she takes a share of what you get, so less in your pocket now again.
Also are you truly sure all is as being claimed and your trainer is not just buying for herself to re-sell at a huge profit...
I don't like the entire scenario unfolding that you tell of.

Sales and riding barns, at least the ones I've been at looking for horses nor the barns I worked at_ *did not* _allow un-escorted guests to walk around the barn...for that exact reason.
Not every horse is for sale....not every horse is friendly either.
Called a insurance liability...

You make your horse sound like he is so good a match for you, willing, hard-working and a trier _to please you_...
You don't find that very often...think hard about throwing that away.
Do truly consider spending that money to find if the horse has this spinal issue and which one it is...
You sound to me like you are tossing away because of a possibility the horse of a lifetime in match to your needs...
You're told all this terrible "fact", yet the ones telling you this terrible news are also wanting to buy said animal...it makes no sense...
_No sense at all..._
You're not permitted to speak to said purchaser..._why?_
Because you might find out the truth of what is being said and told?
Not told when someone is trying YOUR horse...sale barn or not it is YOUR horse! A phone call of someone is trying your horse today is a courtesy, common courtesy. This wasn't even a sales prospect but you were approached by said horse dealer/trainer.
I also find it a strange practice that every horse is spinal x-rayed "as routine" by said trainer/dealer...legs, pastern and hocks yes...spines :icon_rolleyes: 
_Not unless there was a concern found._
_At which point if that concern is validated you walk away_...not continue down the merry path of trying to buy, first taking the horse for a trial basis...
What were you told about those x-rays/films...does it add up to you?
What I would like to put in print I would be smacked for by this sites moderators..._rightly so!!_
What I can say is the entire thing stinks of rotten dealings.

I would take the horse off the market with said trainer/horse dealer till you have proof positive one way of the other so you not be taken, or so you do find the right new home for the horse...or just keep him as you will know what is what in his future.
Further his training and make him the champion you know he is capable of...

Trust this "trainer"..._*no.*_
Glad you are moving...onto better trainers, honesty and up-front dealings and truthfulness and no pressure when you search for a mount for you of your choosing.
You don't sound like some novice or not-knowing what you're doing beginner...
But this current deal stinks of to many questionable comments, things & practices.
_Just seeing other responses...and I will be "LIKE" stamping both of them!_ 
:runninghorse2:...
_Yup, my opinion..._


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I find it very odd that the trainer is trying to sell YOUR horse to a client but won’t give you the client’s info. To be blunt, she needs to quit giving you the runaround and hand over the buyer’s contact information. There’s no reason that she can’t give it to you. 

So at the very least, no matter what you decide to do, you need to cut out the middle man (your trainer!).


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm curious how much you priced him for if you don't mind me asking. Basically he sounds like an above average horse price wise. Someone comes along looking for a backyard horse and wants him...and oh look now they can afford him and he's "only good for" a backyard horse? Awfully convenient. Regardless of what you do in the future with him (I would do your own xrays and have a good game plan with your vet) I would be running away from this "sale" the barn and the trainer.

I bet there's a very large number of KS horses undiagnosed as they do not have any issues and back xrays aren't standard.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

IMO the trainer is just looking to make sales. For your own protection you need some rules now that the trainer and everyone else must follow. 

These people rode your horse without you even there with no protect for you. I am sure the trainer made them sign something where she and her property were protected from a lawsuit, but I would bet big that there was nothing in it that covered you or your horse! 

It would not surprise me to discover that her "buyer" just wants your horse for resale. You must not blindly trust this trainer, please. The trainer won't let you talk to her "buyer" because she has put herself in the position of "agent". She is most likely planning to make money on both sides of the sale, charging you and the buyer a commission that you are likely not made aware of. The half price offer most likely reflects that. 

This sounds like a place with a lot of high dollar horses in it. No one in their right mind goes to a place like that to buy a "backyard trail horse". 

If you did sell your horse, then bought an expensive horse from this trainer; my guess is that within a year she would be trying to sell you a different one! 

IMO you would be risking everything if you let your horse go out on a trail to someone somewhere that you have never even met! Would never do that without a very firm secure contract in place. 

You were happy with your horse until you moved to this barn, and I am pretty sure you will be happy with your horse again just as soon as you move him out of that place! 

Run, run fast. 

I have personally seen friends in this type of situation buy horse after horse spending tens of thousands of dollars in less than a years time because their "trainer" kept finding "better and better" horses that for sure they would win on! Of course they never one and the horses were not worth anywhere near what they paid for them. That "trainer" bleed my friends dry to the point they got divorced! Those three very costly horses got sold for peanuts and the trainer didn't help them sell them either. 

PS - My horse had a severe case of KS and rehab didn't work for him. That does not sound like the case with your horse at all! Do not worry if he will break down someday, because most all horses eventually get old and their backs get weaker. It's called aging...there are worse things


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## valley ranch (Oct 12, 2017)

Just curious ~ have you seen the Xrays ~ are the processes touching or leaning ~ or what ```

Is your horse a thuroroughbred ```

Unless this horse has low grade pain ~ at all times ~ and you've said not ~ I'd wait for another buyer ```


Richard


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## valley ranch (Oct 12, 2017)

Just re read your post ~ yes ~ keep the horse ~ if the only reason you are selling is a bad back ~ you'd know if this horse had a bad back ~ how do you know ~ the Xrays are of your horses spine ```

Get away from these people ~ find a safe place ~ where they're not trying to grind you ``` Find a place and move your darling out ```


Richard

I just read the rest of the posts ~ on this thread ~ run don't walk ~ to the nearest safe barn ```


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

horselovinguy said:


> The buyer is so unconcerned about the "diagnosis" they want to take the horse for a weeks trial....
> And run him into the ground?
> They won't admit that but that is what is going to happen...a serious shake-down to occur.
> Ride him, jump him and see what?
> ...


Thanks for pointing this out, I never really thought about it this way. I think I always see too much of the good in people and assumed that they were genuinely interested and wanted to try and see how he rides at their place, but now that you've mentioned this, I believe such scenario is also very possible. Now I see that it's very risky for me to let my horse go off property where I won't be able to see what is done with him. I will follow your advice and tell trainer that if they want try him they can come to our barn and ride while I'm there. 




horselovinguy said:


> It has also occurred to me that your trainer who is a dealer has put a substantially different price on the horses head to make more money in her pocket besides the commission she is going to take off of your allotted share..:|
> Yea...she takes a share of what you get, so less in your pocket now again.
> Also are you truly sure all is as being claimed and your trainer is not just buying for herself to re-sell at a huge profit...


Well the funny thing is, she's not charging me anything for selling this horse, which I also find very surprising. And she is telling me that the buyer will pay directly to me, BUT I guess that it is also possible the buyer will pay a portion to me directly and also some sort of finder's fee or something similar to my trainer. 




horselovinguy said:


> You make your horse sound like he is so good a match for you, willing, hard-working and a trier _to please you_...
> You don't find that very often...think hard about throwing that away.
> Do truly consider spending that money to find if the horse has this spinal issue and which one it is...
> You sound to me like you are tossing away because of a possibility the horse of a lifetime in match to your needs...


The main reason that I even considered selling my horse in the first place was that the trainer keeps telling me that my horse is NOT a good match for me and never will be. She tells me that the horse is too big and too strong for me, he's 16.3hh and I'm 5'3" and 120lbs. I do agree that he might not be the most size appropriate horse, but I also think that size is not the biggest factor in choosing a horse. Trainer doesn't want me to buy anything over 15.1hh. The horse is great to ride on most days and he will take care of me, I've taken him to a show where I'm a nervous trainwreck and he just hops around the course for me. BUT, then there are also days when he doesn't listen and tries to do what he want. It is on days like these that I think to myself, oh maybe he's not the horse for me or that I'll turn him into something dangerous I let him get his ways, and that's why I thought about selling him, I thought, maybe he'll have a better future if he's with a stronger rider who can make him listen all the time. At the same time, I've also had other people said to me that it's unbelievable what my horse does for me when I ride him even though I'm not that good of a rider and he's also a very green horse. 

---



Yogiwick said:


> I'm curious how much you priced him for if you don't mind me asking. Basically he sounds like an above average horse price wise. Someone comes along looking for a backyard horse and wants him...and oh look now they can afford him and he's "only good for" a backyard horse? Awfully convenient.


He is priced around $15K, I bought him around $20K. Trainer says she think he's worth no more than $8K and $10K if I'm lucky. He's a 6yo warmblood, can jump full courses up to 3'3", but he's also very green. He's was only under saddle for a few months when I bought him and still has a ton to learn. 

Now that you've mentioned it, it is also very strange that about the buyer wanting a leisure horse coming to our stable since most of the horses here are high level hunters/jumpers that I would guess are priced at $50K+. Seems a little sketchy.


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

AnitaAnne said:


> If you did sell your horse, then bought an expensive horse from this trainer; my guess is that within a year she would be trying to sell you a different one!


I am also really afraid that this is what will happen. There is another girl at the barn who came with her own horse, she sold her horse (probably at the suggestion of the trainer) and bought one from trainer. Now trainer is telling her to sell the one she previously bought to buy a new one. 



AnitaAnne said:


> IMO you would be risking everything if you let your horse go out on a trail to someone somewhere that you have never even met! Would never do that without a very firm secure contract in place.


Yes, I agree, there is just too much risk involved. And as much as I would like to think that they will treat him well and do as if he were their own horse, there are just too many sketchy people out there. My biggest fear right now is, as someone else mentioned, that he will come back injured or drugged to hide his symptoms. 



AnitaAnne said:


> You were happy with your horse until you moved to this barn, and I am pretty sure you will be happy with your horse again just as soon as you move him out of that place!


Well the thing is, I was very happy when I first moved him to this barn because I thought, oh this trainer knows a lot and has a ton of experience and he seem like she genuinely cared about training me and my horse. To be honest, the horse performed better that he previously during the first couple of months we were here and I was very happy with everything. But then trainer starts saying that this horse is not suited for me, he's not a good horse blah blah blah and I think it all got in my head. Then my attitude towards the horse changed, I starting doubting him when I was riding and began wondering if he's a good horse at all. Then trainer would put me on some of her horse during my lesson and say how great the horse matches me and how it's a much better horse than mine. And then trainer brought up the whole sales thing. In hindsight, I feel like trainer has planned this all along, to make me want to sell my horse and buy one from her. I guess sometimes you don't see the big picture until you take a step back from all of it and really assess the situation. 




AnitaAnne said:


> Do not worry if he will break down someday, because most all horses eventually get old and their backs get weaker. It's called aging...there are worse things


That is of course very true!


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

valley ranch said:


> Just curious ~ have you seen the Xrays ~ are the processes touching or leaning ~ or what ```
> 
> Is your horse a thuroroughbred ```
> 
> Unless this horse has low grade pain ~ at all times ~ and you've said not ~ I'd wait for another buyer ```



Yes, I have seen the x-rays that were given to me by my trainer, ones that were done for the potential buyer during their PPE. If I keep the horse I will have my own vet do another set of x-rays. There are 3 spines touching each other, location is towards the end of the saddle. Sorry I know it's not very technical, I really don't know how to explain it.

No, he's a German warmblood. 

What would be characterized as low grade pain?

The only problem I ever have with him, which I think could possibly be related to his back, is that he can sometimes be difficult to turn on the left side, he will try to run of the circle and continue in a straight line instead of turning. This happens if I rider him in a loose-ring or eggbutt snaffle, with a full cheek or pelham he will turn better.




valley ranch said:


> Get away from these people ~ find a safe place ~ where they're not trying to grind you ``` Find a place and move your darling out ```
> 
> I just read the rest of the posts ~ on this thread ~ run don't walk ~ to the nearest safe barn ```


Yes, I have made plans to move him to a different barn at the end of the month.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm going to put my response in each section _in blue so easily seen...

_


jumpingpony said:


> Thanks for pointing this out, I never really thought about it this way. I think I always see too much of the good in people and assumed that they were genuinely interested and wanted to try and see how he rides at their place, but now that you've mentioned this, I believe such scenario is also very possible. Now I see that it's very risky for me to let my horse go off property where I won't be able to see what is done with him. I will follow your advice and tell trainer that if they want try him they can come to our barn and ride while I'm there.
> 
> _Sadly, when you have worked in the industry you learn some "inside" tricks that sometimes you share with unsuspecting nice people...
> I won't say this is what these people will be doing, but I have a strong suspicion in my gut..._
> ...


With that...all of this is only yours to decide what to do.
My gut has a bad feeling in it for you...
Now that there are others pointing out some very significant "what" you are starting to also question the entire scenario and integrity of all involved.
Just make sure you not get taken for a financial ride and then be expected to pay, pay and pay some more for what you truly already are already sitting on in the package of "warmblood" that is worth mega-bucks today.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

jumpingpony said:


> No, he's a German warmblood.
> 
> The only problem I ever have with him, which I think could possibly be related to his back, is that he can sometimes be difficult to turn on the left side, he will try to run of the circle and continue in a straight line instead of turning. This happens if I rider him in a loose-ring or eggbutt snaffle, with a full cheek or pelham he will turn better.
> 
> Yes, I have made plans to move him to a different barn at the end of the month.


Ca-Ching....that is worth money!!!

You said he is yet green...
A loose-ring or eggbutt offer the least help in assisting the rider with directional changes.
Full-cheek, d-rings and yes a pelham offers a lot more face surface area used and guidance felt by the horse...not a issue!
Ride him in any of those bits as he learns to respond softly to your cues...

_I am so glad you are moving....
Take this horse with you unless you get your price, period._

Your horse sounds like such a nice animal.
One who is learning correctly with a solid foundation on him....
What I refer to as a packer in ability, these are worth a fortune.
A schoolmaster may be a terminology more familiar to you...but this is what you are sitting on in demeanor, attitude and ability ongoing in learning upper levels... aka $$$$$$$$$ in value!
:runninghorse2:.....


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## Dixiesmom (May 26, 2013)

Many years ago in the Olympics, the tallest rider (well over 6 - Michael Matz maybe?) was on the smallest (barely over 15?) horse. It looked hilarious, but they did great together!! I mean his shoulders were above the horse's head and his legs waaaaaay down.


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## elkdog (Nov 28, 2016)

I sell new homes for a living and don't ever respond to lowball offers. 
The price is the fair market value.
Do you want it or not?
Shouldn't the same be true for horses?


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

You have a 6yr old, 16.3H, German Warmblood gelding who is a packer even though still a bit green and this trainer is trying to tell you he is only worth 8K??? 

HOLY MOLY!! 

That horse is worth a small fortune!!! You got him for a steal if you only paid 20K!! He would sell easy in the 50K range. 

I want to see a picture so I can drool over him. Don't know where you are located, but I'd give an arm and a leg for that horse...right now


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

What a mess. Sorry this happened to you. My gut says to stay a bit longer with this horse. He sounds great. All horses have something wrong with them. If he has a good mind, that is worth all the money in the world.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Just wanted to add that folks don't pay 8K for a trail horse. 

Anyone offering that kind of money is planning to resell at a profit. That is the point where your trainer makes her cut most likely. 

They may already be planning to use the "trial" to show the horse to their buyers. 

I never sell a horse to anyone that I haven't seen the place they will be keeping the horse. If there is an issue, I want to know where to find those people and the horse again. 

Your horse is a 6yr old 3'3" packer, plus 16.3H plus a German Warmblood. It doesn't get any better than that! If he is also bay...he is the dream. Of course I prefer a chestnut, but I'm weird :smile:

Do a little investigation to see what price a horse like that is advertised at.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Looked up an ad because I was curious! 

Not exactly the same as mainly dressage, but Breed, age, height and relative jumping ability is the same

Check out this gem at 75K 

https://www.warmblood-sales.com/Sea...rice=100&lPrice=100000000&State=%&Country=USA


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

AnitaAnne said:


> Looked up an ad because I was curious!
> 
> Not exactly the same as mainly dressage, but Breed, age, height and relative jumping ability is the same
> 
> ...



Sorry that is not the same, that horse is 10 years old, and reported as jumping 4' 3" and training Prix St George, and showing at 3rd.....lots of big differences, in my uneducated opinion. If this sale horse was six, I would run a mile.......because it would have been 'overcooked' doing those things at 10 is a big difference.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> Sorry that is not the same, that horse is 10 years old, and reported as jumping 4' 3" and training Prix St George, and showing at 3rd.....lots of big differences, in my uneducated opinion. If this sale horse was six, I would run a mile.......because it would have been 'overcooked' doing those things at 10 is a big difference.


Whoops! I put in six as the max age in the search engine and didn't double check that. Thanks for the correction!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

AnitaAnne said:


> Whoops! I put in six as the max age in the search engine and didn't double check that. Thanks for the correction!


That's not as bad as when it decides to ignore your maximum budget for some reason, you fall in love with something to find that a couple of zeros seem to have been added to the end!!


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## Hrosec (Aug 9, 2011)

jumpingpony said:


> Thanks for pointing this out, I never really thought about it this way. I think I always see too much of the good in people and assumed that they were genuinely interested and wanted to try and see how he rides at their place, but now that you've mentioned this, I believe such scenario is also very possible. Now I see that it's very risky for me to let my horse go off property where I won't be able to see what is done with him. I will follow your advice and tell trainer that if they want try him they can come to our barn and ride while I'm there.


I would not let his size bother you. She also sounds quite sketchy to me. I'm 5'3 too and weigh even a bit less than you and I consistently ride horses as part of the equestrian team that our at least 17 hands high. I would keep him!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

It sounds like someone is trying to make a huge profit off of you.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

"He is priced around $15K, I bought him around $20K. Trainer says she think he's worth no more than $8K and $10K if I'm lucky. He's a 6yo warmblood, can jump full courses up to 3'3", but he's also very green. He's was only under saddle for a few months when I bought him and still has a ton to learn. 

Now that you've mentioned it, it is also very strange that about the buyer wanting a leisure horse coming to our stable since most of the horses here are high level hunters/jumpers that I would guess are priced at $50K+. Seems a little sketchy."

****!!! (not at you!)

That's completely what was expected...SO expected. I'm not sure why you dropped the price, but irrelevant:

Take emotions out of the equation... if someone came up to you saying they had a horse worth 15k a young talented WB with lots of potential and a good personality- SWEET! But they moved to a new barn and this horse that was so good for them the trainer kept on saying they weren't the right match. And oh look! The trainer has a perfect match (I'm guessing this horse is expensive?). And oh look she coincidentally found a buyer at a high end sales barn that wants a backyard horse. Thing is this strangers horse has now developed KS and is only appropriate at half price to this specific buyer. Awfully convenient, eh? It sounds like something out of a book! You don't even need the run around of her not allowing you to contact the buyer directly, etc.

I'm no help long term in how much this will effect his sales price, definitely at that price range you will need to take a loss, BUT if you keep him longer and can get more training into him and prove he is sound and manageable vs "oh looks _possibly_ bad xrays let's drop his price and move him"...

But short term... what would you tell that person above?

So "this is the most fishy thing ever" isn't really answering your initial question, but I hope it helps.

Now if you believe he does indeed have KS and want to cut your losses sketchy situation or not that's up to you, but I definitely would proceed with the assumption nothing trustworthy is going on. I'd advise to move on (and out!) quickly, follow up with your own vet and come up with a long term game plan sales or no. You'll likely make more that way and I think it would rest easier than needing to make a decision NOW with the limited info available.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Oh and I would like to add that I want to double like every post @AnitaAnne has written! Another excellent point that if they were truly looking for a leisure horse that he would be out of the expected price range at 8k...and when they tried him he was 15k still (again, convenient?!)

While I have ridden some pricey horse they sure weren't to buy!!!

IF you decide to sell him now I would still recommend xrays taken by your vet. For that price a basic set of xrays will make an awfully big difference.

Also agree that a young horse with a good start to him and show experience and an amateur friendly personality is absolutely worth what your asking (of course without knowing more about bloodlines and yada-yada). KS doesn't always cause problems and he hasn't shown any signs of problems. (And I completely agree the turning thing is him being 6 and unfinished and nothing to do with his back).


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> That's not as bad as when it decides to ignore your maximum budget for some reason, you fall in love with something to find that a couple of zeros seem to have been added to the end!!


Sometimes I wonder; If I had unlimited funds, would I buy a 75K horse? 

I do believe I would be afraid to walk it out of the stall...may even be afraid to touch it. 

That is a 13 yr old kid riding that 75K gelding and she is doing all the upper level movements! Jeez. When I was thirteen I was riding a fractious grade gelding and I barely knew how to hold reins correctly. Was proud I knew how to tie a safety knot and tuck and roll when he threw me...TG for 4H lessons!


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## SADDLEBRED1959 (Apr 23, 2018)

I TWEND TO AGREE WHY WOULD YOU GET A BAD PRE BUYING VET CHECK AND STILL WANT THE HORSE? i WOULD BE MOVING ON THO THE NEXT HORSE PERSONALY,
SEEMS PRETTY SHADY TO ME AND i would not come down on the price, I WOULD WAIT AND SEEE, IF THE BUYER REALLY WANTS THE HORSE THEY WILL BE BACK IF NOT LET THE TIRE KICKER GO DOWN THE ROAD IF THE HORSE DOES HAVE A PROBLEM GET A SECOND OPPION, THEN GO FROM THERE , THERE A RE SO MANY THINGS THAT CA N BE DONE TO HELP A HORSE WITH THIS


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Ultimately a horse is only worth what someone will pay you for it.


However, given the price difference you're currently seeing it would be worth having this horse operated on, with his breeding, temperament and if he has as much potential as it sounds then you'd recoup the costs.
That's why someone would offer $8K for him - not as a trail horse but as a competition horse that's got a treatable condition, especially as he's not even showing symptoms of pain.
Having X rays done of the back isn't unusual if the horse has a high price tag and is going to eventually be used for competing at upper level. 
Its also often done in horses that have been in dressage training because, sadly, too many people are still using rolkurr type methods that result in the horse hollowing out its back. 
This horse would benefit from doing lots of long and low stretching exercises in its schooling routine
This is a video of an operation on a more extreme case


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

According to this article, about half of the horses out there have the issue or at least something similar.

"Intertransverse ankylosis, a sort of arthritis in these joints, is really common, found in 50% of horses. It’s not clear whether this actually causes back pain. Watch this space, and we’ll see how the research pans out on this one."


The equine back: how do you keep your horse?s back... | EquineMechanics


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

AnitaAnne said:


> You have a 6yr old, 16.3H, German Warmblood gelding who is a packer even though still a bit green and this trainer is trying to tell you he is only worth 8K???
> 
> HOLY MOLY!!
> 
> That horse is worth a small fortune!!! You got him for a steal if you only paid 20K!! He would sell easy in the 50K range.



Well, the trainer said that he would be worth a lot of money if it wasn't for his KS, she said that given his conditions, he will never be worth much because people do not want to take the risk and buy a horse with KS. 

When I bought him he came straight from the breeder and had only been under saddle for a few months. At that time he was only jumping 2'6"-2'9" so he was not very expensive. He has learned a lot since he's been with me, we've done a few local shows and if I do end up keeping him then hopefully we'll do some big shows over the summer to give him more experience in the ring  




AnitaAnne said:


> Just wanted to add that folks don't pay 8K for a trail horse.


That is true! There are just so many things that I didn't realize until I post all my thoughts here and got opinions from other people. I think I was blindly just listening to what she was telling me and too trusting of her that I didn't question anything she was telling me. 

---



Hrosec said:


> I would not let his size bother you. She also sounds quite sketchy to me. I'm 5'3 too and weigh even a bit less than you and I consistently ride horses as part of the equestrian team that our at least 17 hands high. I would keep him!


To be honest, I never really gave much thought to size before I came to this barn. I didn't ever think it was a big problem that you have a small rider on a big horse or vice versa until the trainer kept telling me that I would be better off riding something smaller. The horse she's trying to sell me is a horse/pony, it's 15h.

---



Yogiwick said:


> Take emotions out of the equation... if someone came up to you saying they had a horse worth 15k a young talented WB with lots of potential and a good personality- SWEET! But they moved to a new barn and this horse that was so good for them the trainer kept on saying they weren't the right match. And oh look! The trainer has a perfect match (I'm guessing this horse is expensive?). And oh look she coincidentally found a buyer at a high end sales barn that wants a backyard horse. Thing is this strangers horse has now developed KS and is only appropriate at half price to this specific buyer. Awfully convenient, eh? It sounds like something out of a book! You don't even need the run around of her not allowing you to contact the buyer directly, etc.


Now I see how stupid I was during this whole situation and how sketchy/shady my trainer has been this whole time. I guess sometimes everything is clearer in retrospect. Yes, the trainer wants me to buy a 15hh horse from her that she's going to cost me around $25K. And now that I think about it a lot, I don't think the horse is worth that much. it's a nice horse, has a bit more show experience, 10yo, can jump up to 3'6" but is very lacking in terms of flatwork (no changes, doesn't know shoulder in, doesn't known turn on the haunches etc.). I understand that everyone needs to make money somehow, but this, this is just plain taking advantage of someone else. Like you said, it all seems too convenient. 




Yogiwick said:


> Also agree that a young horse with a good start to him and show experience and an amateur friendly personality is absolutely worth what your asking (of course without knowing more about bloodlines and yada-yada). KS doesn't always cause problems and he hasn't shown any signs of problems. (And I completely agree the turning thing is him being 6 and unfinished and nothing to do with his back).


This makes me feel like I'm not crazy, because when I said to my trainer that this is a price I would sell him at she pretty much laughed at my face and said who am I kidding, that's impossible. 

And I hope that the problem with the turning is just him being young and still learning, and probably me not always giving the clearest aids. 

---



jaydee said:


> However, given the price difference you're currently seeing it would be worth having this horse operated on, with his breeding, temperament and if he has as much potential as it sounds then you'd recoup the costs.
> That's why someone would offer $8K for him - not as a trail horse but as a competition horse that's got a treatable condition, especially as he's not even showing symptoms of pain.


I have thought about the surgery and asked my vet about it, he said that it is very much an option in the future if he does develop/shows signs of pain in his back. I guess it makes sense for the buyer to ask for a price cut as they may have to do the operation for him and it is also a risk for them buying a horse with KS in the first place. 

And that's for the video! Very informational


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

UPDATE on the situation so far:

I just want to say thank you so so much to everyone who has given their time to comment or reply to this thread, you have been such tremendous help during this very difficult decision making process. I have taken everyone's advice and decided do to the following. 

I said to my trainer that the potential buyer can either 
1) Come and try the horse at our barn this week one or two more times to see if she would still be interested. The trainer is to inform me at least 24 hours before the trial(s) so that I can be present at the barn to see everything that is done. 
OR
2) They can take him on trial at their place but not keep him their, ie. I would trailer him to their barn, they can ride him, play with him, groom him, take him for grass or whatever and see how he is in a new environment, then I will trailer him back to my place. 

I also said that I will not lower my price at that I would only be interested in selling if I get what I'm asking. 

I will let everyone know what happens next!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

AnitaAnne said:


> Just wanted to add that folks don't pay 8K for a trail horse.
> 
> Anyone offering that kind of money is planning to resell at a profit. That is the point where your trainer makes her cut most likely.
> 
> ...


This. Nobody spends 8K on a green warmblood for a 'trail horse'. They're going to flip him and your trainer is going to profit, and I also agree that the trial period is so they can show him to potential buyers and see just how much talent he has, or they're trying to get him cheap, have the surgery if he needs it, then he's still worth far more than they have into him. Or the trainer is going to sell the horse to the buyer for $50k and give you the $8k. Either way, you get worked over. 

Walk away from this. Move barns, but take great pains they don't retaliate and you and your horse pay the price. Show up with a trailer and take your horse and tack and go. Don't tell them first. Take a step back. If your horse shows signs of pain, then have him evaluated by another vet and see where you stand. I would even wonder at this point if the x-rays they showed you are even from your horse. The whole thing reeks of a setup to get you to unload a nice horse for cheap which they can then turn around and sell for 7x the price and split the profit. If you like the horse and want to keep him, then keep him. If you want to sell him, then do that, but I wouldn't sell him under these circumstances at all.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

jumpingpony said:


> UPDATE on the situation so far:
> 
> I just want to say thank you so so much to everyone who has given their time to comment or reply to this thread, you have been such tremendous help during this very difficult decision making process. I have taken everyone's advice and decided do to the following.
> 
> ...


Sounds fair, but be very, very careful that they actually inform you if they're coming to ride. If your trainer is as shifty as it sounds, it's entirely possible they will have the buyer come ride in the middle of the night so you don't know about it.... just be aware.


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

Also, forgot to mention this, but I will also me moving to another barn at the end of the month. I have not said anything to the current trainer and will not say anything until I leave. I have made arrangements to take my horse to my old trainer's barn where he will stay in full training until I am able to find another barn within commuting distance from where I am now working, then I will move him back. 

This whole situation has just been too much for me to ever trust this trainer ever again. There are just too many questionable practices and conducts that should not even have happened in the first place.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I'm so glad to hear you're getting out and have a plan in place. Count it as a lesson learned and be thankful you didn't get taken in. Please update us on how things go, and let us know when the horse is safely moved. I'm probably not the only one who will be worried about him in the meantime.


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## valley ranch (Oct 12, 2017)

Hi ~ just read your last post ~ I think you're doing the right thing ~ and you can trust people ~ but ~ you just won't take everything they say as gospel ```

Glad you're getting out of there ~ I had written a ~ Whole ~ different post ~ before I read your last ```

You'll let us ~ Well ~ You'll post here ~ soon as you get you baby ~ to safety ~ We'll all breath easier ```

Richard


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Any updates?


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## clairegillies (Nov 25, 2012)

properly look at straightness training by the like of Marike de Jong 
kissing spine can be rectified


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I myself would not budge on the price. They sound to me like they are trying to make money off of you. Move on and forget them.


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## jumpingpony (Feb 25, 2018)

UPDATES:

I decided to keep the horse instead of selling him. He’s my heart horse and I would rather enjoy my time with him even if it means in the future there is a possibility that I may not be able to compete competitively at the level I had wanted to. 

The horse is now at a new stable where one of my close friend keeps her horses also. I spoke with the trainer there yesterday when I dropped him off and told them about my horse’s back condition and that while he has not shown any symptoms, it is good to be mindful that he has kissing spines just in case something does happens. 

Thank you so much to everyone who has followed this thread, commented or gave any suggestions. It has truly helped me get through the craziness of this whole situation. I am happy with how everything turned out in the end and am more excited than ever to be woth my horse again.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

@jumpingpony WOOT!! You are keeping your heart horse!! Wish I could like your post a hundred times

:loveshower::loveshower::loveshower:


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks for the update.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I am so glad you are keeping him!!!


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## ChasingDreams (Nov 14, 2017)

I’m so glad you got away from that other, weasly trainer and decided to keep your boy. Best of luck in your new horse home!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Yay! Glad you are keeping your nice boy. Enjoy him!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Good for you! I'm glad you didn't sell him, I think that was a big scam. Not that he's doesn't have kissing spine, just the whole sales thing.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I wouldn't even worry about the Kissing Spines unless he starts having issues. Lots of horses with it on x-ray never have a problem, and I'm still questioning whether the x-ray you were shown was even from your particular horse anyway.

I wish you both lots of happy rides and many long years together.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Great decision. Glad it could work out. The idea of those people getting him after their crappy offer sounded just awful. Glad you held your guns.


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