# Oh no! Backyard breeding!



## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Pictures are a must!

I won't call you a backyard breeder if you won't :wink: I hope the babies are cute and healthy. Do you have plans for them? Did you contact their prior owners about when they might have come in contact with a stud?


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Tormenta soon after we got her.


Tormenta at the end of May.


Hard to believe she's the same horse!
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I wouldn't classify you as a BYB. :wink: BYB is something completely different. Good luck with the foaling.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

If you bought them already bred and didn't know it at the time, you're not the breeder just the owner. That's a whole world of difference from deliberately putting a so - so mare to a better off gelded stallion, and then crowing about it.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

ForeverSunRider said:


> Pictures are a must!
> 
> I won't call you a backyard breeder if you won't :wink: I hope the babies are cute and healthy. Do you have plans for them? Did you contact their prior owners about when they might have come in contact with a stud?


No plans for the babies yet. We'll see what comes out!
Tormenta came from a dealer so there's not much hope of knowing what stud covered her.
Xena was kept with a squalid 2yo colt - maybe not a bad animal but in awful condition - so he must be the proud father-to-be. I should have suspected the worst but supposed that she wouldn't take as she was so skinny. Plus she was in season with my 4yo mare soon after we bought her.
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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Xena when we got her in March. 
Xena recently.

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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Xena's teats today. Any ideas on how long we're looking at?
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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Subbing...


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bondre said:


> Xena's teats today. Any ideas on how long we're looking at?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My mares teats look like this to this day. Including the white sugaring. She foaled in March 2013. 

Did you confirm the 2nd mares pregnancy with your vet?
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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you aren't a BYB. you are the best possible outcome for the BYB; someone who will take care of the mare and baby responsibly, even if you didn't make the mess yourself.


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## disastercupcake (Nov 24, 2012)

I would guess that the mare Xena isn't pregnant... her teats looks just like my older mare's who foaled 3 years ago. Also she really doesn't seem to have a belly at all, and for a mare that's foaled previously, I should think there would be more belly.

I'd have the vet check her out


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Xena might not be in foal. As others have said, the teats alone don't mean a whole lot. I have an ex-broodmare (that I bought as a trail horse) who has had 10 foals and her teats are HUGE compared to Xena even though my mare hasn't had a foal for 4 years. 

If they've had a foal in the past, the teats can stay enlarged. The sugaring is probably dried sweat. My girl gets that too. 

I probably shouldn't embarrass my mare, but she has the biggest teats I have ever seen on a horse. She really looks like a bit like a stallion. :lol:

Oh, she came with an unexpected bun in the oven too! He's 4 this year and is my go-to saddle horse. 

So this could definitely be a happy ending.

I'm so glad I bought my girl. She was slated to go to auction. Both her and her baby could have had a bad outcome. :-(

You should really have Xena vet checked too if you think her belly is growing. But the teats alone don't mean a thing.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Subbing! Good luck!


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## wbwks (Apr 5, 2014)

I'm in agreement with the others, Vet check is the only way to know for sure. I had a mare that developed an udder and a belly. After calling her previous owner I found out that she has false pregnancies every year. I was even able to squeeze liquid out of that mare's udder. BUT the fact that she was with a 2yo stud means she certainly could have been covered.


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## oobiedoo (Apr 28, 2012)

Subbing


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree, you aren't a backyard breeder, you are a backyard bred horse's best wish. You didn't choose to breed these mares but you are giving them and their foals the best possible chance at life.

Did you have Xena's pregnancy confirmed by a vet? Some horses you never can tell until you see legs sticking out the back LOL. I also have a mare that, as far as I know, she only ever had one foal and she's got ginormous teats much like what Trailhorserider posted a picture of. She was one of those "preggers when I got her" horses and her foal is also my go-to horse.


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## Kati (Feb 24, 2013)

On the topic of ginormous teats, really any horse can have them. I'll get a picture of our four-year old maiden one of these days. She looks like she's been pregnant many a time as big as they are, but we've owned her since she was 9 months and she's definitely never had a baby.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I haven't had Xena vet-checked because my suspicions are very recent, and really only based on the enlargement of her udder. I'm pretty certain that her teats have dropped and bag area behind the teats has grown some, (although I hadn't exactly studied her udder before the other day!). She doesn't have a belly sideways but it IS deep. And as Smrobs pointed out, some mares barely show signs. Her previous owner in fact said the same about her; he didn't realise she was pregnant and one night, after a strenuous ride, she popped the foal out. I had thought that reflected more on his lack of horse knowledge, but perhaps she's just one of those slimline mares.

On the other hand, she's not behaving like a heavily pregnant mare. She's light on her feet and plays with my 4yo.

All in all, as you've all said, the only way to know for sure is to get the vet. (Or to find a foal one morning, whichever comes first LOL). If she's NOT pregnant, a huge sigh of relief all round. I haven't actually dared to voice my suspicions to DH yet! ....."ANOTHER foal, is this a stud we're running or what?!".... or something like that.

Trailhorserider, I love your mare Izzy. Doesn't she have some Spanish blood in her? She's rather similar to my Tormenta.
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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

If I really stare at this photo I think I can see a foal in there.....
Anyone else?
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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Bondre said:


> Trailhorserider, I love your mare Izzy. Doesn't she have some Spanish blood in her? She's rather similar to my Tormenta.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought she looked like Tormenta too! But no, she's a Missouri Foxtrotter. 

What breed(s) is Tormenta?

The high-set, arched neck must run in the family because her son has it too, and he is 1/2 QH. I've seen his sire and he definitely doesn't have the neck, so that must come from momma.


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

She doesn't look pregnant to me by looking at either the teat picture or the side view. 

Have you ever had a pregnant mare before? Sounds like you're in contact with a vet at least for the confirmed pregnant mare, which is very important, especially if you are new to it.


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## Cielo Notturno (Sep 12, 2013)

She doesn't look pregnant to me, but I heard more than once of mares who didn't look pregnant and one day just popped out a foal. 

(that's why I will *never* buy a mare unless I know her and her owners well enough to be sure she's not with foal. I cannot afford a foal)


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## Bo20 (Jun 8, 2014)

Subbing!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Honestly my appaloosa mare looks ready to foal and she hasn't been anywhere near a stud in about 12 years. :lol:


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## Cielo Notturno (Sep 12, 2013)

well, my gelding looks ready to foal too…


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

My gelding looks ready to pop if your baseing this off of belly photos. And my other mare that's most definitely not bred.
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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

The bay mare just looks like a nice fit not pregnant mare. Her teats are those of a mare that has nursed a foal before. If you look at those on a maiden mare, they will be about the size of your finger tip and sucked in tight. Mare's do not "sugar" they wax. The white you are seeing is nothing more than salt, dirt and grunge. Wash it off. When a mare is ready to foal, she will wax up. That is a light watery substance on the teats that often forms a drop. The little pooch in front of the teats is nothing more than fat.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

trailhorserider said:


> I thought she looked like Tormenta too! But no, she's a Missouri Foxtrotter.
> 
> What breed(s) is Tormenta?


I think she's mostly PRE (pura raza española), although not very pure in her case LOL.
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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

TessaMay said:


> She doesn't look pregnant to me by looking at either the teat picture or the side view.
> 
> Have you ever had a pregnant mare before? Sounds like you're in contact with a vet at least for the confirmed pregnant mare, which is very important, especially if you are new to it.


I am new to it - I wasn't planning on foals - and I agree that Xena doesn't look pregnant but I thought her udder had grown somewhat and that this must indicate gestation. However, it sounds as if I am wrong on this one, and seeing as everyone is pretty much in agreement that teat size alone doesn't mean much, and that she doesn't have a belly, I think I can relax on Xena's account. 

Having said that, although I haven't seen many pregnant mares, I HAVE seen countless pregnant goats; they vary enormously from barely fitting through a (narrow) gate, to looking totally unpregnant in the morning and kidding in the afternoon. I imagine mares are equally variable.
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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Cielo Notturno said:


> well, my gelding looks ready to foal too…


I love it!
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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I never use the term backyard breeder. It is too negative and far to general a term IMO. 
If I did however I would not call you one. I think you are doing something very kind.
What is done is done. Labeling others will not change the facts and in fact might make them continue their substandard breeding just to spite the rest of us.
Good luck with the new arrival. 
Get the other mare checked but dont be surprised when she is declared empty. Shalom


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Too bad, bc Xena is much better built than Tormenta. Good thing that she is gaited bc even if the sire isn't gaited the foal will gait. Those genes for gaiting are dominant, and I've own several 1/2-gaited horses that did gait.
I would be thinking first about the health of the mare. You will not be able to register the colt or filly, so do another kindness and put as much good training into the foal as possible so that a new owner will want to keep and enjoy him or her.
You are NOT a backyard breeder, but you are collecting a lot of horses. You might think about what your horse limit is. I think you have taken on enough. Bless you. =D


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I agree that she needs washed. My mares developed what looked like white pencil leads coming out of the teats. They foaled shortly after. 
I dislike the term back yard breeder, as I have seen some purebred horse farms that needed shut down, and sell the foals without the papers for less money .


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## Cielo Notturno (Sep 12, 2013)

Are there any news?


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

As you all pointed out, Xena's teats aren't indicative of gestation, and combined with her general lack of belly I have decided that my sudden hunch that she's in foal was just a way-out hunch. I may get the vet to look her over the next time he's here for the livestock, but I'm not going to call him out specially. 

I had a look at the 4yo's teats too and she had just the same white spots as Xena - now I realize they're just sweat marks, nothing to do with milk production.

No foal news on Tormenta yet. She looks exact same as one month ago. She's so long-backed that she can hide a foal away and it barely shows, so it's just a question of waiting on changes in her udder. 

In fact I think I might have found an ideal home for Tormenta. She's pretty much been hanging out since I had her, as I don't have time to ride three horses regularly and DH doesn't ride her much as she's too strong for his liking. She's the kind of horse that likes a job. Well, a young local chap heard on the grapevine that we were looking for a suitable home, and came to see her, and he loves her. He's 19 and still riding a pony (lack of funds to buy anything bigger). So the idea is to give him Tormenta and take the pony ourselves - it will make a suitable scboolmaster for our boys to learn on. She'll be living on a farm and will have plenty of action once she foals, so things look good for her 
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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

Great to hear that Tormenta has a bright future ahead of her!

Looking forward to seeing the foal. It's almost a shame that Xena isn't pregnant - she's one stunning little girl!


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## RaigenB (Dec 12, 2012)

Just curious, since I am kinda new to horses, what would be considered a backyard horse breeder? I think someday I'd like to have a mare and maybe get a foal but I want to know the right way to do it so I wouldn't do it wrong.
Thanks!


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

RaigenB,

I consider backyard breeding to be breeding horses with no thought to conformation, health and genetic testing, registration, or purpose besides attempting to make money, or thinking they need a baby from their mare (and lack of regard for little else).


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## RaigenB (Dec 12, 2012)

Oh ok, that makes sense. Thanks!
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