# Feeding the endurance horse



## Faustinblack

What do you feed your endurance horse? I hear a lot of mentions of triple crown feed. Worth the money?
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## Joe4d

high fat with good omega 3 ratio, low protien, lower carbs. Triple crown has several different feeds, and I wouldnt consider triple crown a high priced brand. If I was going Triple crown I would choose tipple crown training, Id prefer a lower protien, though. then feed grass hay, not alfalfa.


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## Faustinblack

I don't feed alfalfa, and my boys are on five acres, but with winter and everything there is not much grass
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## Joe4d

regular old grass hay, soaked beet pulp and a high fat low protien low carb feed. 
Fat burns at a lower temperature than sugar. All about heat management in endurance horses. 
Also people loose sight of the fact that horses arnt like us, and they arnt like dogs. They are not carnivores. They DONOT need tons of protien. People think protein equals building muscles Soooo the more the merrier. So feed makers respond with what sells. est food in the world wont do a manufacturer any good if it is left on the shelf. People like to see high protien numbers so thats what they put in the bag. All you are doing is creating rich, high amonia pee. While not huge deal on a casual horse. Makes a big difference in endurance. Extra unneeded protein requires large amnounts of water to process and flush. Endurance is all about hydration and heat. So feeding high protein can make it harder to keep horse hydrated. Feed I feed is 11/6 fat to protein. I supplement BCAA, a pasture multivitamin, and electrolytes, depending on weather and rides. But I'm just some smukatelly bob on the internet with a few completions and several pulls, I know alot about what NOT to do. But I do alot of reading and research. Go to the source Check out the research by Dr Garlinghouse. Pretty much considered the guru of all things food and endurance related.
Particularly good is beating the metabolic pull, Susan E. Garlinghouse, DVM horse management articles and lectures
Susan E. Garlinghouse, DVM horse management articles and lectures


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## TheOtherHorse

*Ration Balancers?*

I am new to endurance, just tinkering with LDs and hoping to move up to a 50 this fall... and diet isn't as big a factor for LDs, but I suspect it can be for a 50, so I need to do some more research.

In the summer I usually just feed a ration balancer, plus some flax seed for extra omega 3s (and supplements if needed for that horse). I have used Triple Crown 30% protein, but I only feed 1 lb/day, so it is actually LESS total protein intake than a full serving of a low protein grain. Thoughts? 

Do any endurance horses do well on a small amount of ration balancer, or do they _need _a full grain meal? Mine stay fat on pasture in the summer, so I have never wanted to feed more grain that time of year.

I should add that I DO add in beet pulp before/during a ride, and they always have access to either grass hay or pasture, so plenty of fiber.


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## Joe4d

no way Id feed 30% protein feed. Didnt even know they made horsefeed that high. I suspect even at that pound hitting him with that concentrated dose he's just peeing it out. I suspect most horses get enough protein from pastures with a bit of clover. The ration balancer, flax and and supps are probably fine, but if you read ingredients you'll probably end up cheaper just feeding a decent feed to begin with. Pretty much same thing I ended up with. Remember what is fed on thursday is in the gut on saturday, so thats when you want to start with the soaked beat pulp and elytes if not sooner. ALot of the elytes will also just go to waste, but your making your horse thirsty and hoping to get him to drink more. You want hydration at 100% on ride day PLUS a soaked fiber reserve in the gut. Also I dont want my horse bulking at a new taste on ride day.


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## Faustinblack

I stopped and talked to the people at my feed store. Apparently they don't make the training formula down here, but they recommended something called XTN, by FARR. Any ever use that stuff?
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## Joe4d

looks pretty similar to the southern states Legends Performance I use. looks good, how much a bag is it ?


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## Faustinblack

25. I thought I was gonna have a heart attack. But if it works and I don't have to buy a bunch of supplements to balance out sub par feed...
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## greentree

Just joining in this conversation, don't mean to butt in.....I started using the Legends Performance about 3 weeks ago. I cannot tell you the difference in my gelding! Granted, he had not been ridden in 8 weeks, but the last time I took him out, he was trippy and just felt weird. Not tired or slow. He actually tripped and went down on one knee on a smooth gravel trail. 

Nothing else has changed, so I am attributing it to the feed change. Perhaps he was deficient in something. 

Anyway, maybe this guy will get to go to a ride afterall. I had about given up on him.

we now return to your regularly scheduled program.

Nancy


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## Joe4d

Im paying about 18 a bag for legends performance, didnt quite get the syntex in the above post. You saying your horse is now better or got worse on Performance ?
But if you read the ingredients, you can cut out the flax, A and biotin sups , with the better feeds. So probably isnt costing more in long run. Is Legends available in your area ?


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## Faustinblack

No, it's not unfortunately.
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## greentree

Sorry I was confusing! He is MUCH better on Performance.


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## Joe4d

I scrolled down Nutrena websight, looks like XTN is good, you could go Safe choice special and supplement flax seed


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## TheOtherHorse

Joe4d said:


> no way Id feed 30% protein feed. Didnt even know they made horsefeed that high.


The idea with ration balancers is to provide all the nutrients, vitamins, minerals, protein that the horse needs to "balance their ration" of forage in a very small serving. Not much fat/fiber/calories. They are ideal for horses who don't need grain to maintain weight, but still provide a balanced diet that pasture/hay might be lacking. Really more of a pelleted supplement than "grain". 

A horse eating 6 lbs (minimum amount to meet nutrient requirements on most feeds) of 10% protein feed will actually get MORE protein than a horse eating 1 lb 30% ration balancer. Make sense?

Mine eat 1/2 lb twice daily. 

In the winter I feed traditional grain (high fat/fiber, low nsc) when they need the extra grain to maintain weight, but in the summer if I fed 6+ lbs of concentrate they would be obese sausage horses! 

I really like this way of feeding in general, but I do wonder if it is not appropriate for endurance horses...


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## gottatrot

What you feed depends a lot on your pasture quality and your horse's metabolism.

One of my mares is an easy keeper. She gets pasture in the day, grass hay at night, a tiny amount of Nutrena Safe Choice Special Care (just enough to eat her vitamins) and Trifecta vitamins. Also a salt/mineral block free choice. She does rides just fine with a diet that is almost 100% grass and grass hay.

My other mare is a very hard keeper. She gets pasture in the day, grass hay and alfalfa free choice at night (she won't eat enough grass hay to keep weight on), six pounds Nutrena Safe Choice Special Care, and one pound Nutrena Empower Boost (a high fat rice bran supplement). Also Trifecta vitamins and a salt/mineral block free choice.

I believe in feeding a low NSC diet even if a horse does not have IR. I believe in low sugar in any supplements and adding fat when necessary for adding weight to the horse. I prefer feeding only grass hay and I only add alfalfa when necessary, but I would rather a horse keep weight on with alfalfa rather than adding "bagged" feed if possible. That is why my easy keeper gets a fairly ideal diet (in my mind). Yet you need to be flexible about adding calories in other ways since if I only fed hay to my hard keeper she would not be able to exercise without starving.


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## BlueSpark

we feed soaked beet pulp(the kind with NO added molassas) whole oats, and ground flax on top of good quality grass hay, and in the summer, pasture.

they have free choice mineral tubs and salt licks, and they get electrolytes before and after rides.

all the horses are sound, happy, and very energetic, plus with the flax their coats look spectacular.

that said, I only have done 25 milers up to this point, and a few times done a ctr one day and endurance the next(50 miles in 24 hours).


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## Brighteyes

My horse had PSSM, so her diet is a little odd. However, it works great for endurance. She has a lot of steady, "cool" energy.

She gets 2 pounds of Legends performance pellet, 2 cups of Cool Calories as a fat source, an ounce of electrolyte, a digestive supplement, and vitamin E/selenium. 

She's turned out 24/7 with a round bale. 

EDIT: More people who feed Legends? :lol: Yep. I love the stuff too!


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## Joe4d

Id dump that cool calories, bad for the joints. Omega 6 fats are an inflamatory, especially when the 6 to 3 ratio is out of wack. Switch to flax or a fish based fat supplement. LIke smart omega 3,


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## Brighteyes

I consider it a necessary evil. :wink: To feed a PSSM horse, you need a TON of fat. A pound a day total. The only way to give it without going broke (and with consideration to what is available where I live) is to feed oils (ick!) or Cool Calories. Despite not being totally _ideal_, it's better than having a horse with atrophied muscles and azoturia episodes. The lesser of two evils, eh? 

Also, I have not noticed any effects on her joints or inflammatory response. (It probably helps that she's on fresh pasture all the time. Helps throw the balance back towards the 3s.)


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## TheOtherHorse

Bright eyes - you might try checking with your local feed mill / store about whole flax seed. I get 50 lb bags of whole flax seed for $35. You don't have to feed much of it, so it lasts a long time, and I think it ends up being less expensive than cool calories. Some people grind their flax in a coffee grinder - if so, you have to do it right before feeding, as it isn't stable once ground and loses nutrients rapidly and can go rancid quickly too. I just feed it whole, there have been studies showing that the horse breaks down the shell adequately and extracts the nutrients just fine.

I used to feed my horses soybean oil for fat, and saw a huge improvement when I switched to flax seed. We're learning more and more about how important that Omega 3 : 6 ratio really is.


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## Joe4d

Yep I concur 100%... Flax seed and fish oils. Leave the soy and corn oils alone. Goes for people too.


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## Brighteyes

What perfect fat is flax anyway? If I had to feed 2 or 3 pounds of it a day to get the necessary fat content by weight, my horse would never eat it, unfortunately. She's extremely picky. :? I tried feeding rice bran once upon a time. It's 20% fat. I had to feed 5 pounds a day. :shock: She refused to finish it, and eventually refused to touch it.


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## TheOtherHorse

Flax seed has significantly higher fat content than rice bran (and much better omega 3:6 ratio!), so you don't need to feed much. I only feed 1 cup twice daily. All of my horses eat it with their grain and don't seem to notice it is there. I think they would eat it plain. It is just tiny brown seeds. I think they would eat it like straight oats. Even if she needs more than she will eat you could substitute part of the horse's daily fat intake with flax.


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## Faustinblack

I think I have found a good feed. I just wanted to see what y'all think. Purina Horse Feeds - ULTIUM
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## greentree

I fed Ultium when it first came out in a trial. It was quite "heavy", and sweet, and my mare would NOT eat it at rides. Since my horses have pasture, I only feed enough to have it in their system, so it was not a 'feed change' at a ride. 

Nancy


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## Joe4d

concerning Ultima some people feed it, I just looked at the label. 
I'm not impressed. cheaper joint inflaming oils, No magnesium, (humm finally got the ingredients magnesium oxide is listed as an ingredient but not on the anylasis sheet, leeds me to believe may not be enough to matter.
)
No biotin and a few other nutrients Id expect to be present if Im paying premium price for a feed. If I am paying premium pricing I wouldnt expect to have to turn around and buy supplements for just the basics that this feed lacks.
Looks like cheap feed in a fancy bag.


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## its lbs not miles

Joe4d said:


> concerning Ultima some people feed it, I just looked at the label.
> I'm not impressed. cheaper joint inflaming oils, No magnesium, (humm finally got the ingredients magnesium oxide is listed as an ingredient but not on the anylasis sheet, leeds me to believe may not be enough to matter.
> )
> No biotin and a few other nutrients Id expect to be present if Im paying premium price for a feed. If I am paying premium pricing I wouldnt expect to have to turn around and buy supplements for just the basics that this feed lacks.
> Looks like cheap feed in a fancy bag.


Sadly most people know far too little horse nutrition (and digestion). I've often thought people should take a course and get certified in it. It's not too unexpected though when you consider what most people eat themselves. :lol:
Like so many things it's case of follow the leader (or advertiser) and hope the leader being followed doesn't do more than walk into a ditch you can climb out of vs going off a cliff.


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## Horsesaplenty

I am feeding a mix of ADM Powerglo and SafeChoice Perform (coming off the safechoice and onto the ADM). The ADM is the best I can get here having the highest fat and fiber content and the lowest protein that I can get. Luka only gets 2 lbs of that a day along with soaked beet pulp and 2/3 of a feed bucket full of alfalfa Chaffhay. He also gets 24/7 turnout. I am putting weight on him now while we are beginning our conditioning. I know he'll start toning up, but I wanted a good base to start with first as to me he was more hippy/ribby than I liked.

He has free choice salt and mineral licks, but I'm switching over to adding salt his into his feed. The ADM has minerals already in it.

We are working on being dosed with electrolytes as well.


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## Joe4d

ADM,,, no biotin, no magnesium.


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## Horsesaplenty

For some reason that link on my post is incorrect...but oh well. I can't find a way to edit it on this board. He eats the powerglo and that link should be correct, lol.

He's also supplemented with a loose mineral/salt mix so that should cover any deficiencies, I also use Source micronutrients, and he has free access to block minerals/salt. 

Biotin...been looking into that one. The feeds I have access to locally don't have it included, so I will have to supplement. I only just started changing his feeding plan and researching the feed requirements for the long distance riding equine. Lots to read and learn  and many opinions as well. We all do the best we can


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## Faustinblack

Joe, you use or know any one that uses the T. C. Fish oil powder?
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## Joe4d

no, but I really like the fat ratios, looks to be a pretty decent calorie supplement if you need one . Way better than cool calories, or corn oils typically used. Originally I was using a smart pack but found buying a 20lb bag at tractor supply was the way to go. Do you have tractor supplies in your area ? I am really liking the below as a supplement for heavy work, when combined with a decent horse/workload appropriate feed this seems to cover everythign but electrolytes. It really does make my horses shine, but if you look at the ingredients breakdown seems to be a pretty good product. I think they do a disservice by its label. Probably should call it Ultra shine and hard keeper/ performance supplement. 
DuMOR® Ultra Shine, 20 lb. - Tractor Supply Online Store


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## Faustinblack

Yea, that's where i usually get my feed. I'll have to see if they have it in my normal store
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## LeynaProof

I compete in 50 to 1 day 100 milers and Seminole works great for us. We use Blue Ribbon 12 %, Leisure pellets and beet pulp with Molassas. We also have a feed mill that makes their own oats, corn, alfalfa pellets and barley and that mixture seems to put the fat back on them the quickest after a ride. Ours are on 48 acres of grass, but in the winter we get round rolls of either coastal hay or coastal/ peanut mix and in their stalls beforing turning them out after dinner they get a flake of alfalfa or timothy/alfalfa mix. That works for our horses, everyone has there own opionins and things that work and don't work for them 

We also supplement. Accel vitamins from Jefferequine works great. And plain old MSM. We have been using those two for years. About a year ago our gelding kept getting muscle cramps up high in the hindend, so we got a magnesium supplement and liquid calcium. The magnesium he gets everyday and the liquid calcium he gets when we are at a ride. He gets 60cc twice or three times a day before ride day and at every hold on ride day and all of our horses get BCAA mixed into calcium on ride day.


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## Faustinblack

Got a feed science experiment for yall. My horse Rikki choked last saturday, and then again on wednesday when we took him to the vet to get his teeth floated. Long story short, the vet said no pellets of any kind. I bought Rikki for endurance, but without being able to give him any with pellets, what do I feed him to make sure he gets the nutrients he needs? Ive started off feeding him omolene 100 because its straight grains, and Dumor Ultra Shine. Anyone else have any ideas? Please help me


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## Horsesaplenty

LeynaProof said:


> I compete in 50 to 1 day 100 milers and Seminole works great for us. We use Blue Ribbon 12 %, Leisure pellets and beet pulp with Molassas. We also have a feed mill that makes their own oats, corn, alfalfa pellets and barley and that mixture seems to put the fat back on them the quickest after a ride. Ours are on 48 acres of grass, but in the winter we get round rolls of either coastal hay or coastal/ peanut mix and in their stalls beforing turning them out after dinner they get a flake of alfalfa or timothy/alfalfa mix. That works for our horses, everyone has there own opionins and things that work and don't work for them
> 
> We also supplement. Accel vitamins from Jefferequine works great. And plain old MSM. We have been using those two for years. About a year ago our gelding kept getting muscle cramps up high in the hindend, so we got a magnesium supplement and liquid calcium. The magnesium he gets everyday and the liquid calcium he gets when we are at a ride. He gets 60cc twice or three times a day before ride day and at every hold on ride day and all of our horses get BCAA mixed into calcium on ride day.


Leyna isn't MSM a banned endurance race substance? Maybe I'm wrong...been doing a lot of reading lately....so my head is a bit swimmy from all the stuff floating in there,


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## SueNH

Wet the pellets so they break up. Doesn't take much water. Just dampen it all, wait 5 or 10 minutes and stir.

My app chokes if I'm not careful. I have to spread the feed out in an old water trough for her. This way she can't grab a bunch at once. Once she's past the first few mouthfuls she slows down and eats normally. If I'm not the one feeding for whatever odd reason the instructions are wet the feed. I also have a few rounded river rocks in there to slow her down even more.



Faustinblack said:


> Got a feed science experiment for yall. My horse Rikki choked last saturday, and then again on wednesday when we took him to the vet to get his teeth floated. Long story short, the vet said no pellets of any kind. I bought Rikki for endurance, but without being able to give him any with pellets, what do I feed him to make sure he gets the nutrients he needs? Ive started off feeding him omolene 100 because its straight grains, and Dumor Ultra Shine. Anyone else have any ideas? Please help me


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## deserthorsewoman

Had the same problem with my first Arab, he even choked on Omolene. 
Since then, 24 years ago, any pelleted feed is soaked in this barn. For ALL horses.


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## Joe4d

Omelene 100 isnt too bad. I like legends performance, or legends pleasure. textured feed, but not super sweet or starchy and doesnt form a glue like glob life strategy type feeds do. Cut the feed with a bit of soaked alfalfa or beet pulp pellets. Add your supplements.


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## LeynaProof

Horsesaplenty said:


> Leyna isn't MSM a banned endurance race substance? Maybe I'm wrong...been doing a lot of reading lately....so my head is a bit swimmy from all the stuff floating in there,


It actually is, but that would be in large doses. We use it as a mild joint supplement and stop using it 3 days before a competition. I have asked the vets on the AERC committee about this. And they said what we were doing was fine. They get 2 of the little scoops twice a day and none 3 days before we leave.


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## Horsesaplenty

LeynaProof said:


> It actually is, but that would be in large doses. We use it as a mild joint supplement and stop using it 3 days before a competition. I have asked the vets on the AERC committee about this. And they said what we were doing was fine. They get 2 of the little scoops twice a day and none 3 days before we leave.


Thats what i thought and i'd read a little about withdrawel times with certain substances. I also use it for maintainance on three of my horses.


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## LeynaProof

Horsesaplenty said:


> Thats what i thought and i'd read a little about withdrawel times with certain substances. I also use it for maintainance on three of my horses.


It has never let me down, so i don't want to quit using it. I have an Arabian gelding who turned 18 in Feb and he has been getting MSM his whole life and has been doing Endurance since he was 6. He is still going strong, no joint problems, no injections. He also gets a glucosamine shot once a month. He actually just finished a 50 mile ride in 3rd place this past weekend. He would have given 1st place a run for her money, but as he has gotten older he does not do as well in the heat as the youngsters anymore.


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## kolko

*What I feed*

I ride a TB in endurance. They tend to be a little on the thin side. I feed free choice Bermuda grass. I give 1 flake of alfalfa/day. I then feed 5 gallons of soaked beet pulp with rice bran. I started this diet in the fall and the results have been amazing. My horse has competed faster with less fatigue. Pulses down in less than 5 minutes as well.


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