# Joey



## mummygirl81 (Aug 30, 2011)

This is Joey. He is about 16 months in the pictures. He is a warmblood/tb cross. I plan on using him for dressage. I would just like some basic critiques of his conformation. I already know he has long pasterns, and he does toe out a little on his right front. I basically want evaluations on his shoulders, neck, hip and such, as I'm not that great at evaluating those areas. He was about 61 inches in the photo, but is now close to 16 hands. He is a slow growing guy, and at times looks funny, but these are the best pictures I have, sorry he is not squared up!! I love him though, he has the best personality and is the easiest baby to work with I have ever been around. He is currently turned out almost 24/7, unless the weather is awful. He is a little fatter now than he was in the pictures, as he went through a growth spurt right before I took these. Please let me know what you think. 



Here is my baby Joey


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

The pictures are so wide it's hard for me to view them on my screen, but I'm extremely concerned, not about the length, but about the angle of his pasterns. He seriously looks as though he has DSLD or something. Have you had a vet or farrier evaluate him? I don't mean to be an alarmist, but I'd be really worried about riding a horse like that at all. They're combined with the very straight hocks, too, which is a bad sign.....


----------



## mummygirl81 (Aug 30, 2011)

I have had my vet look at him, and he didn't say anything about that, he was concerned about the length and them possibly being weak, and suggested turning him out to help strengthen them. Joey is very sound, and a very pretty, lofty mover. My farrier trims him every 8 weeks and has never said anything. Joey's pasterns are actually getting better and stronger, compared to when he was younger, I will post new pics this weekend of him now, it's been about 3.5 months since these photos were taken. My vet is one of the best in Ohio for lameness, and my farrier is very knowledgable, but I will specifically ask them when they are out next.


----------



## mummygirl81 (Aug 30, 2011)

So I just looked up DSLD, and pictures, and I'm going to have to disagree. He does have long pasterns, and when he's not standing nicely, he looks goofy, but he does not look like those horses. From what I was seeing too, it isn't really seen in warmbloods and tb's, plus he's not lame. Please remember he is a warmblood and they grow super slow and strange. I do appreciate your opinion though!!


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

What is DSLD? I do, also , notice that his hocks are super straight. At first I thought that there was a kind of odd bump on the front of them but I think it's just that the leg has hardly any bend in it at all where the hock is.

He has a nice shoulder and neck to back ratio is good. I hope that his pasturns will strengthen . I am not so good at evaluating horses that are not yet full grown.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Here, tiny: DSLD/ESPA Symptoms, Diagnosis and Management


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

All I can say is that I sincerely, with all my heart, hope that Joey is not that. Sounds really bad. Have you, Bubba, encountered this before? It must be pretty rare, 'cause I've never heard of it.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I haven't, or at least not diagnosed as such, and my knowledge of specifics is also very limited. One of the "Paso" breeds--I'm thinking Finos? But could be Peruvians?--is really prone to it. But I also believe that the more they discover about it, the more they diagnose it....may have just been flying under the radar before, and thought to be something else.


----------



## mummygirl81 (Aug 30, 2011)

So after worrying about it, I have called my vet and farrier, and they said he does not have DSLD. His sire has straight hocks as well, and is getting ready to start showing 3rd level dressage, has been approved by the BWP, OLD/ISR, and the RPSI as a stallion, so idk, maybe it's acceptable in the sport horse breeds to have straighter hocks? I also think it's individualized, as some horses may have problems with it, as some may not. Here is a link to his sire's webpage, if anyone is interested Gran Casso - Split Mesquite Farm. Thank you for the opinions!!


----------



## mummygirl81 (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks Tinyliny for the evaluation of his neck, shoulder back. I do believe his pasterns will strengthen and they will be fine, they have already improved tremendously from a lot of turnout. I've also heard longer pastern horses can be more comfortable to ride!!


----------



## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

I'd be concerned about his long-term soundness-- how strong can they get before they start to weaken from use? I'd do frequent flexion tests if it were my horse. We had 3 horses at work who have/had dropped pasterns, and one had to be put down because of it.


----------



## mummygirl81 (Aug 30, 2011)

I really don't want anymore comments, since no one has anything positive to say what so ever, not even that he is a pretty color!! He is a baby I bred, I love him because he is out of my mare that I've owned for 16 years. I tried to breed a nice horse, as my mare has good conformation, and had a successful show career in her younger days. I like the movement of his sire, and thought that he could improve on a couple of things that I wasn't as thrilled about with my mare. But I guess I've bred a piece of junk.


----------



## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I know you said you did not want more comments but I will add these. 

He is a pretty copper color for sure and I like his head. Appears to be an investigative sort of horse and want to know what is going on and what you are doing which can be very fun. He has a nice open shoulder angle and his hocks appear close to the ground which is very nice. 

I like his topline. 

That being said (and because no horse is perfect) he has an extremely straight hind leg and I would want to be working him walking up hills a lot. A horse this straight behind MIGHT develop a stifle problem where the stifle can dislocate (and can be pulled back into place when it does). The prevention for this is trotting up hills to strengthen the musculature that supports the stifle and keeps it in place. He is straighter behind than his sire (I took a look..and in a lot of ways your horse is similar to his Daddy). 

He does have long pasterns. You have had the vet check this and your farrier is aware of it so only time will tell if they pose a problem or not. I will leave it at that. He is also a bit over at the knee. At the amount he is over this is really a cosmetic problem, not a problem of soundness. I prefer a horse to be a bit over than ever being back at the knee. Considering the concern about his pasterns, being over at the knee may actually help with the shock absorption and spare the pasterns to some extent. 

I know a lot of warmblood people want large horses, but I have to say if this boy tops out at 16.1 hands he is big enough. I really think that is an excellent size for both handling and training and soundness. 

Conformation critique of your horse is really a mechanical thing. It does not tell you if your horse will excel or not at a specific discipline. One of the ugliest conformed horses of all time (Exterminator) was purchased as a "work horse" to make other race horses run better in training. Exterminator won the Kentucky Derby. John Henry, who raced to almost age 10, was not perfect in conformation by any stretch of imagination. It did not stop him! Seabiscuit raced a good deal of his life with a sand crack that did make him lame. Remember his come back to racing? 

Let your boy grow up... and while at it take him for walks and go up a lot of hills to help those stifles. Enjoy him first and foremost (which you seem to be doing).


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

mummygirl81 said:


> I really don't want anymore comments, since no one has anything positive to say what so ever, not even that he is a pretty color!! He is a baby I bred, I love him because he is out of my mare that I've owned for 16 years. I tried to breed a nice horse, as my mare has good conformation, and had a successful show career in her younger days. I like the movement of his sire, and thought that he could improve on a couple of things that I wasn't as thrilled about with my mare. But I guess I've bred a piece of junk.


 

No one said that he wouldn't be usable. No one said that he needed to be put down. You wanted a critique and you got one. He has conformation defects that makes people question how his long-term soundness would be.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mummygirl81 said:


> I really don't want anymore comments, since no one has anything positive to say what so ever, not even that he is a pretty color!! He is a baby I bred, I love him because he is out of my mare that I've owned for 16 years. I tried to breed a nice horse, as my mare has good conformation, and had a successful show career in her younger days. I like the movement of his sire, and thought that he could improve on a couple of things that I wasn't as thrilled about with my mare. But I guess I've bred a piece of junk.


 
Just WOW, I know how it is when someone criticizes your baby, but i;s the risk you take when you ask people what they think.

This *is* the critique area, the 'He's a pretty color' seats are in the 'photos' section.


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

mummygirl81 said:


> I really don't want anymore comments, since no one has anything positive to say what so ever,


A confirmation critique doesn't really work like that, it's not about people being mean or kind - it's simply about the confirmation. 

If you can't handle that, you probably shouldn't have asked.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

mummy,

I am glad to hear that the vet says he doesnt' have that syndrome. When I saw his topline and neck and head (as I scrolled downward) I thought "what a nice looking horse" . It was his hock that stood out as not quite right . So, I guess what that means is that like all horses, he's got some good and some not so good. 
I know it must have really hurt your feelings when people expressed what they saw. They only have a picture to go by and they don't know Joey and have love in their heart for him. While you might from now on keep an eye on these points , don't let them for an instant make you think any less of your dear boy.


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

mummygirl81 said:


> He is a baby I bred, I love him because he is out of my mare that I've owned for 16 years. I tried to breed a nice horse, as my mare has good conformation, and had a successful show career in her younger days. I like the movement of his sire, and thought that he could improve on a couple of things that I wasn't as thrilled about with my mare. But I guess I've bred a piece of junk.


Do you have pictures of your mare and the stallion you bred her to?

Just a matter of curiosity.


----------



## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

She posted a link to the Stallion.


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Elana said:


> She posted a link to the Stallion.



Mind SUPPLYING me with it then.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

It was in post #9, Spyder: Gran Casso - Split Mesquite Farm


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I very much like your choice in stallions. I, also, am curious to see how your mare matches him.


----------



## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Gran Casso - Split Mesquite Farm

Post #9, first page.


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Elana said:


> Gran Casso - Split Mesquite Farm
> 
> Post #9, first page.



This is where the long angular pasterns have come from. I also don't find his movement all that spectacular.

The sire's sire line is a common line as the "W" that came from the "F" line and reverted back to the "F" line is not that highly sought after. Some decent jumpers have come from that line and a few dressage horses but this particular sub line in not very well known and not a sought after line (Weingau is probably the only one with any real credentials).

The sire's dam line originated with the TB Vollkorn and did not become an established line ( at least in the main Hanoverian production line).

The Dutch stallion Nimmerdor is the one that you can say is the best contributor to good blood and in the area of jumper mostly.

Grand Casso dam line also includes the Trakehner line but it also appears to be there for refinement only and nothing of note has come from this line.

So if the OP was looking for a dressage horse nothing from this sire even whispers dressage. Mostly jumper and there is again the pasterns of Joey certainly look like they came from the sire.


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

mummygirl81 said:


> , so idk, maybe it's acceptable in the sport horse breeds to have straighter hocks?


No it is not more acceptable in sports horses. TBH 3rd level dressage is within the reach of most semi athletic type horses/ponies if the owner is prepared to put the work in to them/has the knowlege. I know of lots of purebred connemaras, several Fell and dale ponies, some highlands and even a hafflinger that are competing at higher levels then 3rd level (which is approx medium level over here), it is above that level that it gets harder. Personaly I wouldnt have looked at the stallion at all.

Your lad is going to struggle with those upright hocks for dressage as getting his weight back over them is going to put enormous pressure on them and they have a greater chance of not standing up to the pressure.

My lad is sports horse bred (dutch warmblood lines) and his hocks are realy good.


----------

