# My BO: Am I missing something?



## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

We've been at our current barn since April. It's located about 15 mins from home, and our two minis provide some serious therapy for my wife, who loves taking care of them - and they in turn adore her. So we are there basically every day after she comes home from work.

On the white board in the barn, there is always a list of p.m. chores. I've been knocking off chores to the tune of 1.5-2 hours a night basically every night, since April. BO is often not there in the evening - she's going to grad school for licensed clinical therapist in order to be able to offer therapeutic riding at her barn. Nothing in our boarding contract obligates either of us to do this, but I have been doing it anyway for the following reasons:

- It felt good to support her education, so she doesn't have to do these chores coming home 11 p.m.
- It's physical activity in fresh air.
- To learn "horses", you have to do "horses" - anything from feeding and watering to Epsom salt and Corona ointment.
- I can go to any fence, and everybody there will come to say Hi!

So what's the beef? I don't like being taken for granted, and I don't like to be thought of as gullible. In the last six month, nothing of value, symbolic or otherwise, going beyond a "thank you" text, has been transferred from BO to us. We pay for boarding, we take care of our horses, we pay for additional lessons, and I paid for a half lease over summer. I know the horses need to eat, so I'm not talking about a discount in board, but if you were a BO (or in case you are), wouldn't you consider throwing in a free lesson now and then? A gift card to a local restaurant, maybe? Anything BUT complaining how hard it is to finish all those chores in the evening if there are still items on the list - because maybe I wanted to play with my own horse?

In any case, I'm planning to scale my activities there way, way back - without sacrificing the welfare of the horses, of course. Water, food, and medical attention are non-negotiable. Poop pickup, stall cleaning, aisle sweeping - not so much. She gets some help from her lesson kids, in particular those that lease, and some from her part time assistant instructor, but my wife and I are the only ones there on a regular basis for "bed check". We are there late enough to ensure that the horses have enough water overnight, for example.

In any case, I don't regret having done what I did, as it did not come back to bite me in the **** (which is what usually happens with these things), but I'm also tired of feeling like an employee who's paying her for the privilege to take care of *all* the horses on the farm (about 20). There are activities that I find intrinsically stimulating (like helping with a horse's medical care, or grooming a horse that didn't get much attention in a while), others not so much (like emptying the arena poop bucket). Absent extrinsic motivation, I have decided to limit my activities in that respect.

Unless you tell me there is something I'm not seeing...


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Nope. It's called being taken advantage of. You've become an "old shoe". As a BO, I would definitely throw in some benefits that didn't cost me anything. She probably doesn't have a lot of $$$ floating around since she's in school, but there's stuff she could do to just say "Thanks" in an ongoing and meaningful way that would keep you happy and motivated to keep helping. Just cut back to your horses and let the rest go for a while. The other horses will not die if they don't have hay or water for an hour or 2, she needs to get a face full of what you did all at once. 

I have a horse in full board and training at a small dressage barn. When I'm there I check MY horse's water, hay and pick her stall if she's gone to the bathroom in it. I will sweep out the grooming bays, especially the drain in the shower stall, but only if I want to use it and then again when I'm done. She's got 5 or 6 part timers who are supposed to do the heavy work, so I just look after my mare (because I enjoy it) and make sure I'm considerate and don't make any messes. I have my own barn to clean at home and my own horses to look after and not nearly the amount of help she's got. So I don't go crazy helping out. 

When we go to shows I will chip in and bring an extra saddle rack or bridle or buckets and I will check everyone's water and hay either early in the AM or late in the PM before I go home because I'm usually the first there and last to leave because I live about 2 miles from the show facility. Otherwise, the kids are supposed to take care of their own horses for the duration of the show.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I think you are being taken advantage of. In a serious way.

My barn owner takes $10 a month off my board just for trimming her two goats once a month, and it only takes me ten minutes. She insists. 

I've always helped distribute feed at night if I happened to be there during feeding time, or brought in some horses, at every barn I've been at. Or picked up a stray poop. But the only time I've done serious work for free was when I was getting something out of it. 

At one barn I knew that if I cleaned some stalls, the barn owners would have time to ride with me before dark. If I didn't, they wouldn't have time. So it was something I did in order to make myself and my horses happier, having companions to go out with. 
There was an understanding that this was something I did as a favor, under no obligation, and it was much appreciated. 

Whether or not you as a horse person enjoy the work and the things you learn by being around horses is a separate issue from whether the horses in your barn owner's care are relying on free labor in order to get the things they need. She is the one who has taken on this responsibility, and it is completely up to her to provide the necessary care. 

It was her decision to own a boarding stable. All of the stables I know of require that at least one owner has a full time job, and the boarding costs may cover the horse care and maybe part of the property payment, but the rest of the owner's life is paid for in other ways. My barn owner runs a real estate business with her husband, she pays staff to do a lot of the horse care, and loses several thousand a year from the boarding business. However, the barn property is a serious asset that gets more valuable every year, and she uses the losses as a tax write off. 

I'd keep in mind that it is not your responsibility to help fund your barn owner's education, mortgage, and other things by providing free labor. Financial decisions are her own responsibility. Boarding barns are not money making businesses, and that is her issue, not yours.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Yeah, you can keep your horses minis here and do fencing and my chore list and I would provide all that for free! I would even throw in lessons and dinner!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

waresbear said:


> Yeah, you can keep your horses minis here and do fencing and my chore list and I would provide all that for free! I would even throw in lessons and dinner!


My thoughts too. Those 2 minis would be on a reduced board and there'd be at least an annual invite to a BBQ and some free lessons. I'd also be tossing in a "Thank you" card every time I sent a bill or other communication. The kind of help you're providing is pretty darn valuable.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

waresbear said:


> Yeah, you can keep your horses minis here and do fencing and my chore list and I would provide all that for free! I would even throw in lessons and dinner!


Thanks, but only if Hamlet (in the avatar) can come, too... And the minis do get discounted board, to be fair.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think you did all that stuff too regularly. It came to be thought of 'expected' and 'normal'. If you do such things sporadically, it then has a whole 'nother level of value. I think this tends to happen at our barn, too. Gifts of time and labor start to become thought of as 'therapy', in which case the BO feels like they are doing YOU a favor, letting yo get all that therapy there. 



H m m . . .


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for just a minute...even though I do think you are underappreciated and do above and beyond what is expected. 

Ok, now for the other side...you say the minis do have reduced board, is that because of the extra help you give or because they cost practically nothing to feed? 


Two, did she ever ask you to help with the list or complete the list? It really sounds like the extras were something you took upon yourself on your own initiative...it does make a difference...


Three, is the board lower price there because the BO expects everyone to chip in? 
(it is that way here - most places could not keep any boarders if they had to charge what it costs to keep a horse. We are all pretty low income here so everyone has to help)


Four, are you sure she knows it is you doing all the work and that others are not helping out too? If she is gone in the evening does she even know who is doing it? 


Five, have you asked for compensation for the work or are just expecting her to offer? Sounds like she has a lot on her plate and may not have a whole lot of time to consider other people's situations


Six, before "cutting back" on your extra chores, you might want to mention that "Due to some personal reasons, you will not be able to do as much as you have been". 

IMO it would be kinder to at least warn her of the change, even if you don't want to tell her that you feel unappreciated and undercompensated for your voluntary work. 


IMO you are an asset to the BO and the horses, and should be compensated for your hard work. Maybe if you shared your concerns with the BO you could get some compensation _but no way of knowing unless you try_. 


I give my boarder/friend a *very* reduced rate but she helps a lot with general upkeep and cares for my horses when I am out of town. Plus I consider that she could keep her horse closer to her, but drives a ways to keep her mare with me.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree that you are being taken for granted. 

It is easy for the BO to just expect jobs to be done of you have taken them on without really realising it. 

I would have a word with her, tell her that although you do the jobs you feel unappreciated. This will probably shock her and her reaction will probably be that she thought you enjoyed it. 

If you didn't do the tasks then she would have to do them or employ someone else. 

I always did many things for my liveries liken turning their horses out or bringing them in if they were working. I would also muck them out if I had time. There was a day when I wanted to go to a friend's wedding. I did all morning chores and exercising and asked the liveries to do the afternoon chores. When I returned early hours of the morning, there were some lights on in the barn so I stopped to check all was OK. 

One of the hunters hadn't had his rugs changed, nothing had been swept, the wheelbarrow was full and lights left on. 

I can assure you that those liveries really got the sharp end of my tongue the next morning! It has to work both ways.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Instead of the exception you've become the rule....you set you up honestly.
It feels good to help, and I bet in the beginning you heard, "Gee, thanks. I really appreciate the extra...."
Now, she has come to think of it as part of you being there and doing....
She has forgotten her pleasantries, and the fact you are a paying boarder not the barn grunt.
Regardless of her "activities", whether school for a continuing education, doing the feeding, watering and cleaning it is_ her responsibility_ not yours to get it done...if that is at 11:00 PM, so be it...

I fell into this with a friend of mine years ago...
A occasional Sunday morning feeding turned into 3 hours every Sunday morning so she could go out to eat with family or sleep in I realized one fine morning...honey I don't own a horse, you own 4!!
When I did not go feed because I was not asked, instead I went out with my family _{we saw each other in a restaurant!}_ they were "rudely" miffed.
So was I and suddenly not only were they feeding, but cleaning the stalls not done in several days, filling water troughs freshly scrubbed and moving hay around...all things I did just because they needed done "conveniently".
I did _not_ ride their horses nor have one of my own at that barn...
So, I no longer did anything, not one thing if I went to visit, my hands were in my pocket!

Yes, extricate yourself from the expected chores.
Let the board of expected work sit and not be done. It is not your responsibility, period!
If you're there of course not not give water, but the menial tasks of emptying much baskets, sweeping floors, any of the grunt work....well, it is your time to just be a boarder and go play with your animals and spend time not having to clean-up her barn.
Sometimes a wake-up call needs done to both sides.
You for doing so much so often it is now expected plus some...
Her for forgetting her manners and offering to reciprocate something in return for the hours of time you gave willingly till the offer was worn-out.
When you decide to offer again, if you decide...do it very carefully and _*not*_ just endless tasks done.
Sweep the aisle, or water the horses then stop...the rest of the tasks she expects her boarders to do {:icon_rolleyes:} she can do or pay/compensate someone financially if she can't get her list done herself daily.
Paying boarders or lesson students should not be expected to be the barn grunt.... a helping hand offered is great when overwhelmed but everyday..._*no.*_
_Your B/O is wrong for expecting her clients to do her work...her barn, her workload,* her responsibility* to get it done..._
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate here for just a minute...even though I do think you are underappreciated and do above and beyond what is expected.
> 
> Ok, now for the other side...you say the minis do have reduced board, is that because of the extra help you give or because they cost practically nothing to feed?
> 
> ...



All good points. It is possible that given there are more boarders, she may think others are helping when they are not. I agree you should be cutting back. Do what my step-teens used to do, only the chores they liked and just enough to get by.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

AnitaAnne said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate here for just a minute...even though I do think you are underappreciated and do above and beyond what is expected.
> 
> Ok, now for the other side...you say the minis do have reduced board, is that because of the extra help you give or because they cost practically nothing to feed?
> 
> ...


The minis were promised, and given, reduced board when my wife talked to her about moving in January.

It started out with, "There is always a list on the board - do what you feel like!", but lately she's been dropping hints, mostly to my wife, about how hard it is to finish everything at night. When she did explicitly ask me to help out with the barn and do everything for two days, she brought back a bottle of maple syrup from Vermont. As I said, I did start doing these chores out of my own volition, finishing the board most days - but with the lack of recognition, I'll go back to the original agreement of "Do what you feel like."

No, boarders are not required to do any work. Lessees are by contract required to perform 20 volunteer hours per month, so that would be me during the time I leased Key. Only, due to their daily nature, I did 60 or so - just during those two months I had him alone.

Yes, she knows who does what. She asks that those who do any chores cross them out and initial them, so I, too, know who does what...........

I have not asked for "compensation", just expect some "appreciation". It's like "Buy a car from us, and we'll throw in a free mint!" Because of the reasons I stated for starting to do it in the first place, symbols of appreciation - like, "Forget about this weekend's lessons - it's on the house!", rather than "compensation" at such and such rate, would be quite enough for me to continue to help out.

Six: I'll be scaling back on grunt work that has no interaction with horses involved. When I come with the wheelbarrow with hay, and I hear those nickers coming from the pasture I'm approaching, or see the excitement when the grain bucket gets emptied into their basket - I do get a kick out of that, and it takes very little time for the enjoyment it brings to the critters.

I'll still be doing more than all the other full-fare paying boarders - combined. We'll let her BF pick up some of the slack - I'm sure he'll be able to negotiate for adequate, if symbolic, compensation................


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Can't like these posts enough. Makes me love and appreciate my son's BO even more. I can say here your rent would be reduced and lessons would be thrown in. Sounds like she needs to evaluate her fees and up the board to actually pay someone for the grunt work. My child had no clue about what goes into keeping a barn even though he fed horses and dogs, mucked and did extras. Now that he is cleaning the bathrooms, sweeping for spiders, shoveling sand out of the wash rack (I can't believe how much accumulates over the course of the week.), cleaning the auto waters, basically all the grunt work she did and how she found time for it boggles my mind. He gets paid pretty well for it too.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I think you are experiencing a Superman complex. You did all of this on your own, and now you feel like you need compensation. Would I at least write Thank you on the board...probably, but would that be enough for you? Probably not. 

This is EXACTLY (one of the reasons) why I had to get off of Two-Face Book. This happens all the time, and people post this passive-aggressive stuff and everybody is supposed to guess what it means. 

I would as @AnitaAnne said, give her a little heads up that you will not be doing as much. Don’t expect her to grovel about it , though.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

Nope. I agree with you completely. It can be hard when you're there every day because you can get in situations like this where even the staff starts seeing you as one of their own. When you get taken advantage of it's time to scale back and assume more of an employer / employee role. You are paying for a service and there is a contract with expectations spelled out. Go out and enjoy the horses, if you want to do a little project that improves the welfare of your horses, go ahead. But leave that white board alone. If it's too much for her then perhaps you could renegotiate your contract to get compensated for that extra work but until then, this is her business and you are her customer.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Yeah, I'm a little perplexed by this one @mmshiro. Sounds like you chose to do all those extra chores-I probably, in BO's shoes, would have assumed you did that because you wanted to and not make a big deal out of it. Of course a thank you is nice, but sounds like you got the thank you when you started, and kept going, indicating you wanted to. If you need to pull back, you should.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

greentree said:


> I think you are experiencing a Superman complex. You did all of this on your own, and now you feel like you need compensation.


As I said, "compensation" is the wrong word, because it implies a one-to-one relationship between the work performed and the compensation given. A sporadic and spontaneous surprise token - a mere *token* - of appreciation would do the trick. I'm still not *obligated* to finish the board, because it is, indeed, not part of the contract, but I would feel more *motivated* to do so, all other things being equal.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

egrogan said:


> Yeah, I'm a little perplexed by this one @mmshiro. Sounds like you chose to do all those extra chores-I probably, in BO's shoes, would have assumed you did that because you wanted to and not make a big deal out of it. Of course a thank you is nice, but sounds like you got the thank you when you started, and kept going, indicating you wanted to. If you need to pull back, you should.


Of course I wanted to - I said as much in my original post. I got a bit perplexed when "receiving a favor" started to turn into an implied expectation, when "Do whatever you feel like!" turned into "Can you please finish the board?" 

See, there is a difference between, "I can choose to do or not do these chores, and it will not be received any well or worse." and "She's hinted that she'd like to have the list finished, and yet, I have seen nothing that'd indicate how valuable it is to her." 

Well, if it's not that valuable, I'll return to, (1) Is it a matter of animal welfare? (2) Do I enjoy doing that activity? and forget about (3) Does it help out a student with her degree program?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I think that you are being taken advantage of, whether that was the intention or not. I also expect to be told thank you when I work, but not compensated. It irritates me when I feel like someone thinks I am working for them as a privilege when it is free (I understand getting paid is a privilege).

What I would do is scale back to what it is you want to do. It was nice of you to do all of that work, and not doing it now doesn’t take that away. Now you know the work you enjoy, which seems to be feeding and doctoring. Doing these things is also very helpful, but at least you aren’t feeling like you get nothing from it. Even the things you want to do, you don’t have to do. Do them based on your own desire.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

This is a personality type difference....there are gushy, gift-giving type people, and there are matter of fact, appreciative but non-verbal types. 

It has been a million years since I boarded, but I have taken lessons and cleaned up after horses that were not mine, picked up rugs that fell, moved carriages out of the way for other drivers, etc., and not heard nor expected a single word.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

greentree said:


> This is a personality type difference....there are gushy, gift-giving type people, and there are matter of fact, appreciative but non-verbal types.
> 
> It has been a million years since I boarded, but I have taken lessons and cleaned up after horses that were not mine, picked up rugs that fell, moved carriages out of the way for other drivers, etc., and not heard nor expected a single word.


Agreed. Sporadic stuff can go unnoticed. Formal lists, expected to be worked through, are a different matter -- in my very personal opinion. So I'll be doing "sporadic" and be happy with the tasks I did because I wanted to - no need to acknowledge those, I perfectly agree.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

It sounds like you know what is best for you in this situation, but will just point out this


> "Do whatever you feel like!" turned into "Can you please finish the board?"


was not something you initially shared with us. It's easy to make assumptions without complete information, and I do wonder how much of that is going on with BO. In her shoes, she may have seen someone friendly who kept offering consistent, daily work until she assumed she could count on you because you were "part of the team." Should she have assumed? Maybe not. Should you have said in the moment, "I'm worried that you consider me part of your staff since you expect that I would be the one to finish the board and I just want to be clear on boundaries" Maybe. 

Having managed a lot of volunteers over the years, my style of appreciation is a bit different than your BOs in that I do tend to be very mindful of thanking people with small tokens, but I also am not going to make them feel that they are walking on water because they chose to keep showing up. Regardless of my style or hers, whatever is happening right now isn't leaving you feeling appreciated, and as the volunteer, you have that choice to scale back.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

egrogan said:


> It sounds like you know what is best for you in this situation, but will just point out this
> was not something you initially shared with us.


I wasn't terribly explicit about it, but my original post says, "_Anything BUT complaining how hard it is to finish all those chores in the evening if there are still items on the list._" which kind of expresses the same sentiment.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

This is why volunteers are so hard to find. They go in with a list, then they see something else that needs to be done, and they do it....then suddenly they have a full time job that is unpaid, they feel “put upon” for doing so much, and they bow out. Happens ALL the time. It seems to be a major cause of divorce, too.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

I've never actually boarded a horse, though I did purchase my mare from the facility that I and my daughter took lessons at.


During the early years of my daughters lessons, it was strictly just paying for lessons. As time progressed and her riding as well I spoke with the BO about a trade for more riding time (not lessons) by keeping the two horses we rode in shoes. She agreed. We made sure that our extra riding time did not interfere with scheduled lessons.


That turned into helping with little tasks. Which turned into more tasks. Which finally turned into my cleaning 12 stalls, cleaning and filling water buckets, putting hay out and even my husband, daughter and I helping with the actual haying and filling the barn.


I know my personality type and that I like to "help". I was aware that the BO personality type was to take the help. During those years I soaked up all the knowledge I could as I knew that when the time was right, I would own my own horse and have it at home.


When the day came that I purchased and took the horses home (I purchased T and they threw Walka into the bargain for free) I was shocked when the BO voiced her concern that I wouldn't be back to do all I had been doing.:shock:


People get accustomed to those of us that feel the need (I speak of myself and my personality type) to step up and help. I didn't feel taken advantage of as I allowed it to happen. But after leaving, I wouldn't continue to do all I did, as then I would feel taken advantage of. 



All I can say is if you personally enjoy doing what you have and have enjoyed learning from it, continue. If not, don't. Only you know what will feel right for you.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@mmshiro - I think you are being taken advantage of. The BO hinting to your wife is the last straw. From your posts with your former BO and current BO you sound like a person eager to learn and do new things. A "doer" - so a subtle hint that the chore list is not being addressed may have been all it took to get you involved. And then your involvement became part of the plan. I understand your BO may be busy - but I can say this - she should have thought about her schedule before she took on the additional classes. My assumption is that the barn is her income - and as such it should take first priority.

My husband takes lessons at a show barn near us. Busy does not even begin to describe this place. Especially Aug - Oct as real prep for the AQHA congress starts. When I go to watch hubbies lessons I try to help out if I see feeding being done or an aisle that needs swept - I try to help out. I don't have to - but I want to. And never has it ever gone unnoticed. Maybe not the day I did the work but at the next lesson she may say - hey thanks for doing "X" and our BO is the mother of 3 young children, a wife and a daughter as well as a trainer of multi Congress winners. Busy does not even begin to describe this woman. But she has never not been appreciative of even something small that is done.
@mmshiro - I hope your wife can think of a good reply at the next "hint" to indicate that the amount of work you were doing will not increase.

A free lesson actually would cost this BO very little as far as income but would do way more good in the return of the work you were doing.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

greentree said:


> This is why volunteers are so hard to find. They go in with a list, then they see something else that needs to be done, and they do it....then suddenly they have a full time job that is unpaid, they feel “put upon” for doing so much, and they bow out. Happens ALL the time. It seems to be a major cause of divorce, too.


Must be even harder for businesses that put up lists for their paying customers! :razz: You see, doing barn chores isn't what I signed up for. I didn't come there as a volunteer at a horse rescue, I came there to board my horses and take lessons. 

It's like going to the restaurant. Yes, I only went there to eat, but I'll also sweep the crumbs onto my empty plate and push in the chairs when I leave. Imagine your surprise when people start hinting how nice it would be if you could also bring your dishes to the kitchen, and maybe sweep the floors after closing, since you are the last customers that night...


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

carshon said:


> [MENTION=253201]
> A free lesson actually would cost this BO very little as far as income but would do way more good in the return of the work you were doing.


Previous BO, for all the difficulties we had there, whenever we helped in the barn at night, she'd say, "You know you don't have to do this!" That already conveyed sufficient appreciation to me. 

In *addition*, I was allowed to ride any horse of hers at any time, provided I had the skills to ride it, so that in itself was way more of a "Give" than I'd have expected of her. 

Her only problem were (are?) her less-than-qualified family members she unfortunately has to rely on...and that finally diminished the quality of the care for the horses. *sigh*


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I’m really not trying to argue with you, and we can agree to disagree from here and I’ll butt out, but “hinting at” is definitely NOT the same to me as being given a list with explicit instructions of things I am expected to do. People hint all the time to me about all the ways I could use my skills to help them at work or in volunteer capacities, and I always have a choice about whether I will react with empathy and commiserate about how hard it is to find someone (not me!) to do that thing, or whether I will be the person to jump in and help.

I hint all the time about how hard it is to fit in my chores, but sure would never expect my lovely husband to do them for me!! Nor does he :rofl:

Sounds like you need a break, hope you take it!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Do you have a boarding contract that explains this? If you don’t, then just say, “Not my circus, not my monkeys”. If you do, then you need to amend that....


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Subbing to see how everything shakes down...


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Chevaux said:


> Subbing to see how everything shakes down...


Well, it seems I got my answer. As planned, I'm going to scale back my involvement to the things that both need to be done, *and* that I actually enjoy doing. 

I don't feel taken advantage of, because everything that I did, I did of my own volition, without express or implied promise of a certain compensation. So no regrets. But if I stick from now on to chores that are intrinsically fun and/or educational, it'll feel more like an even trade - even if it's something simple like horses anticipating their hay, doing there little "dominance" song and dance, but then settling in to eat it together.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

She sounds a lot like my old BO...in the sense that it's 'so hard' to get everything done.

They had about 20+ horses. I volunteered once, just to see if I'd like it, plus I was trying to get a deal on board. *shrugs*

It was horrible. Did it for 1 night, but HORRIBLE. Everything was so unorganized. Maybe worse than your situation, but the entire process took about 5hrs...it shouldn't have taken that long...they never prepped for anything, it was just horrible. I was there til almost 11:30PM (mind you, I had to be up at 6am the next day for work)...we had 2 people, that's it...just horrific. She wasn't appreciate of it at all. Not one bit. 

Long story short, I told her I cannot do it. I was honest, but kind too. 

As for your situation, I do feel like you were taken advantage of. No need for her to be hinting to your wife, either...her issues are not your problem.

Glad you decided to just do what you enjoy - that is how it should be. It'll make it a lot better for you. Yup, take a step back.

They say, once you let someone slide, they start figure skating...best to take a step back now. That's good.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its really hard to not help out when you're that type of person and I think probably the majority of boarding/livery yards and riding schools rely a lot on unpaid labor. I've never had anything to do with one that didn't to some extent.
When I worked in riding schools the helpers always got a free lesson or hack at least twice a week, at the livery yards it was more of a thing where helpers got something like a free days hunting, free transport to shows or pony club. One girl would get my youngster in when I was out hunting and in return I'd get her horse in when she had late college sessions
The girls that helped us out when we had our own little yard would get to compete or hunt our ponies and we used to take them out to horse related things, they didn't have horsey minded parents so that was appreciated 
One man who kept his horses on the yard I worked at had a few young women that helped exercise them, he and his wife used to take them out for really nice meals as a thank you and they hosted some great dinner parties at their own home.

Its a shame when people don't appreciate free help, we were somewhere like that for a short time when my youngest son was a baby and soon learnt to walk away once we'd done our own horses.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

@mmshiro It's very easy to get yourself into this kind of predicament. I've done it a couple of times and have learned my lesson. It always starts as doing a couple of things to help out and speed things up for someone else. Usually it's not a big deal but then you start doing a couple of more things and then a couple more. The next thing you know, you are not spending the time with your own horses that you want to. I wouldn't really get upset with her. Just scale back and tell her that you are finding that you are coming and just doing chores and not finding time to enjoy your horses like you want. 

I helped out where I board and still do but I had to cut back when I was finding that I was just showing up to do chores and just feeding my guys when I wanted to spend more time with them. On top of it B/O's hubby and son were sitting in the house watching TV and doing there thing. That's when I said NOPE, not going to happen. Now, she can expect me to help her when she is out of town and I'm there but she still asks me just in case I had plans too. 

It's kind of this little trap that you set up for yourself. Just gently wriggle out of it and you should be fine. 
When someone asks for help, the worst that can happen is that there is a no. If you say no it's no big deal but don't say yes and then get mad about it later.

I would occasionally help my neighbor out and mow his lawn when I was doing mine, (mostly so I didn't have to look at the overgrown lawn) The day that he came over and knocked on my door to ask me when I was going to be able to get to his lawn was the first day that I never did it again. So I honestly get where you are coming from, you just have to remember that you are part of the equation, part of the dance.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

LoriF said:


> It's kind of this little trap that you set up for yourself. Just gently wriggle out of it and you should be fine.


Completely agree. The more I think about it, I realize that doing these chores was coming from an angle like, "I *can* do this for you, here's a free sample – you can show me through your actions how much, or little, it is worth to you that I continue doing them." 

I was just surprised because on the one hand she behaves how a rational person would behave if she was _indifferent_ to whether I do the chores or not. But on the other hand there is how she reacts to the chores that remain undone.

Hashtag "_cognitive dissonance_". Contradictions bother me - it's an occupational hazard.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Completely agree. The more I think about it, I realize that doing these chores was coming from an angle like, "I *can* do this for you, here's a free sample – you can show me through your actions how much, or little, it is worth to you that I continue doing them."
> 
> *Personally, I have never done something for someone with expectation of something in return unless it was agreed upon before. When I do something for someone solicited or not, I do it because I want to. I guess what I get out of it is satisfaction of being able to help. When people do things for me with unspoken expectations in return, other than a thank you or token of appreciation, they're kind of SOL. I'm kind of dense like that.*
> 
> ...


*The discrepancy probably happens because intellectually she knows not to expect it but when she's coming home tired from her day, she is hopeful that she doesn't have to do any more work. Some people are more transparent than others. She can hint to you and your wife that she would like you to do it and you guys can hint back that you are not going to do it all.
It probably doesn't really have anything to do with whether YOU did the chore or not, she just doesn't really want to do anymore for the day. But, that is not your problem, she took all of this work on herself. You didn't put it on her.*


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

You are welcome to help me shovel my barn any time you want. I can't even pay anybody to help. There seems to be no interest. They should want free fertilizer......


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

You've just spoiled her without realizing you were doing it. She's gotten to where she expects you to do things without realizing she expects it...

It's kind of like the family type thing... I've been serving my husband his dinner for over 20 years. I started it when we were dating and he was working 6 days a week. He was tired and I was doing what I could to be supportive. It became habit. I really don't mind and I'm certain if I told him to carry his butt to the kitchen and make his own plate he would... but he's gotten spoiled and knows I'm bringing it. People I know always get all huffy when they hear I do that. They think it's archaic and degrading. I think it's just ... well... I like bringing him a plate of dinner... 

You like doing the chores... BUT... sometimes you want to do your own thing but you've done it so long now - you feel guilty. Don't... Do what you want and feel good about what you do...


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Well, what do you know...since recently, when we come to the barn, there are several lists on the board, most of which have the name of a lessee attached to them. The "general" list only contained time sensitive items like feeding or turn-out (there was really bad weather coming through during the day, so some horses came in for that). Happy to do those...and I did. I think she's picking up that "poop pick-up" and "stall cleaning" won't be on my to-do list anymore, that I should only be asked for "helping out in a pinch".


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

mmshiro said:


> Well, what do you know...since recently, when we come to the barn, there are several lists on the board, most of which have the name of a lessee attached to them. The "general" list only contained time sensitive items like feeding or turn-out (there was really bad weather coming through during the day, so some horses came in for that). Happy to do those...and I did. I think she's picking up that "poop pick-up" and "stall cleaning" won't be on my to-do list anymore, that I should only be asked for "helping out in a pinch".


Sit down and chat with her about it. Passive-aggressive stuff just sucks and nobody is satisfied with the outcome.


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## Dancincowgirl (Feb 26, 2013)

Wow! That is amazing! Great for you for putting this out for advice! 
So sorry that what you are doing is not being acknowledged! It is no wonder that you are feeling taken advantage of and wishing to stop helping out. 

It is unknown why BO fails to see and/or acknowledge what you are doing. It may be time to ask, to check in. Maybe BO is going through a very rough personal time and totally distracted! Or in over her head! You may learn that there is definitely something on BO's mind if you have a sit down. 

The only thing I see missing here is *honest communication* even a version of what you wrote above!

This could lead to creating an upfront mutual agreement about your contributions to the barn and what you'd like to receive in return. A total WIN-WIN.

I would not do anything else without these steps:
First...know that you have 'chosen' to contribute. And that, at any time, you can 'choose' to stop!

1. Create a personal documented 'log' (with dates, what you have contributed on a daily basis and how long it has taken) over the last six months. Writing it down will be very validating to you and will be a reality check for her. 

2. Invite BO to have a face-to-face private meeting with you, in the barn office or maybe away from barn, over coffee (definitely not in passing, by texting, email, phone or even or barn aisle).

3. Take time to ask questions like, "Hey, I have given a lot of energy into the barn over the past six months. Here is what I have done. (hand Bo the log) It seems like you have not noticed or maybe you have a lot on your mind. Is everything okay?" Really listen. You might be surprised by what you hear. If BO is open and appreciative, then there is somewhere to go with her and you can propose your ideas, your desires. "I'd be happy to continue donating my time but, most importantly, I'd really like to feel appreciated by you and would like you to consider a reduction in board or lessons for my wife." 

See how she responds. 

If Bo gets angry or is defensive and continues being unappreciative, well, that's a cue to put your valuable, positive energy elsewhere! Maybe change barns even? If the barn owner is that unaware, unappreciative and distant to her customers, well, I wonder how she really is to the horses! 

You can always 'choose' to stop! Could go like this, "Okay, well then I am choosing to no longer donate my time here. I really love the horses and wish to give of my time where I am appreciated. I just wanted you to know so you could have others fill in and help out now." (that way you are not suddenly dropping a ball that she has come to depend on you carrying).

If BO is open to at least expressing gratitude to you, maybe together you can create a clearly spelled out mutual agreement. EX: I'd be happy to do some of these chores when I am here and in return, I'd really like X,Y,Z - clearly spelled out and mutually agreed upon.

In the meantime, give yourself a huge pat on the back and thank yourself for all of your unselfish contributions! Karma points are on the way! 

Warm cheers,
Dancincowgirl


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## Dancincowgirl (Feb 26, 2013)

Just saw this after my response! Great news!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

You could suggest a “barn bucks” system, where each chore has an assigned number of these. They can be used towards board, riding, etc...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

mmshiro said:


> Well, what do you know...since recently, when we come to the barn, there are several lists on the board, most of which have the name of a lessee attached to them. The "general" list only contained time sensitive items like feeding or turn-out (there was really bad weather coming through during the day, so some horses came in for that). Happy to do those...and I did. I think she's picking up that "poop pick-up" and "stall cleaning" won't be on my to-do list anymore, that I should only be asked for "helping out in a pinch".


I always question coincidental occurrences...does anyone else find it odd that *the BO suddenly changes the chores list right after you post this thread??? 
*

Possible someone the BO knows is also on or reading this forum...or the BO may be reading it. But too much of a coincidence IMO to be pure chance


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Dancincowgirl said:


> 1. Create a personal documented 'log' (with dates, what you have contributed on a daily basis and how long it has taken) over the last six months. Writing it down will be very validating to you and will be a reality check for her.


Nah, she knows. She puts the chores on the board - which I understood to be a memo to herself. Her original line was, "Do whatever you feel like, just cross it off and initial, so I know who did what." So, when she comes home and checks what's left for her to do, she sees my initials almost every single night. Others that are there earlier in the day, like lessees before or after a weekly lesson, do chores as well - but what do you know? Nobody chooses the chores with heavy lifting, and we are usually the last ones there at night.

So I see the "two flakes for such-and-such" was taken care of, but not the poop pick-up for her stallion (which I have done about 4 times a week on average, but only because he's adorable and always comes to supervise my work). You know what the kicker is? If *I* don't do it one day, it's on the board the next day, and nobody did anything at all in the meanwhile - it's another day's worth of poop now. (Easy to assess because of stud piles.)

So here's what I'm thinking: I don't like shoveling poop, and apparently neither does anyone else. I have demonstrated that I'm not above it, repeatedly, but it's really not my responsibility - especially for pastures that don't contain my horse. (I clean up *my* horse's pasture periodically whether it's on the board or not.) 

So anyway, it seems like she found a way to allocate less favorite jobs to those who actually have a contractual obligation to do some of these, and I can limit myself to things that really need to be done when we are out there: water checks, evening feeding, etc. I like doing bed checks *on the horses* - it's fun for me; so she's still getting a good amount of volunteer contributions from me. 

If she wants other, non-urgent, stuff done by me, there's gotta be some concrete gestures of appreciation. Or she can allocate chores more intentionally...


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

This is where the barn bucks may be helpful....cleaning the stallion’s stall would be worth more than giving hay.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

AnitaAnne said:


> I always question coincidental occurrences...does anyone else find it odd that *the BO suddenly changes the chores list right after you post this thread???
> *
> 
> Possible someone the BO knows is also on or reading this forum...or the BO may be reading it. But too much of a coincidence IMO to be pure chance


Maybe - but my wife is also pretty good at putting bugs into someone's ears, just by way of casual conversation. 

In any case, I didn't write anything I'd be ashamed to hear if it were read out loud in a court of law.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

mmshiro said:


> Maybe - but my wife is also pretty good at putting bugs into someone's ears, just by way of casual conversation.
> 
> In any case, I didn't write anything I'd be ashamed to hear if it were read out loud in a court of law.


So your wife "putting bugs in someone's ear" would definitely fit my assertion that it was not coincidental that the chores list was changed...does your wife read the HF too? :Angel:


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

AnitaAnne said:


> So your wife "putting bugs in someone's ear" would definitely fit my assertion that it was not coincidental that the chores list was changed...does your wife read the HF too? :Angel:


No, she's not a member, but naturally I'd be complaining to her on the drive home _long before_ asking the public for advice. I mean, she's there seeing the list, seeing me do the chores, etc. Only she spends most of her time with the minis - as she should. 

Sometimes I think, "This really makes sense to me, but let me check - maybe it is a blind spot after all?" The responses of y'all told me it's not a blind spot, and I think everybody just sliding into a sustainable solution is a pretty good outcome.


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