# From the Horror Files of Cinny....



## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Okay, I wasn't going to post them, but here are the vids from Shaggy show in the order that we did our tests. As the day went on, he tired out and did better, but I still have the feeling he just HATES Dressage.

What do you guys think? Should I try a little longer with him, or is it time to let him out of the whole Dressage gig?

Training Level 3 (yes it was our first test of the day)





Intro B





Intro C





Training 2


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I think he looks _happy_ enough, tail in the air. I've been studying USET photos and videos and watching a LOT of Intl. Dressage riders. Their horses have this super steady head set. You horse seems to be playing with the bit and throwing his head up a lot. IMO, if you fix that, everything else will improve. Don't give up! He's got the build for Dressage. I understand the 3rd level is a *b....,* I mean, a female dog. That enough to discourage anyone.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

He just looks super ticked off by your hands. I know this is a show, but I don't see any form of give and release. Both of you are simply bracing against each other, hoping the other one will give up first. The horse is not moving out, nor is he even collecting. You have to get some more feel with your hands first, and work on not getting into a tug-of-war match. Reward every little try, even the smallest of dips. Release fully. I know in the show ring you have to have contact, but at home you are allowed to give him more space to breathe. 

Personally, I think he needs to learn a great deal of lateral flexing. I'm a pleasure trainer, so my horses have to hold their headset and collection without touching the reins. However, I get them so soft and supple through flexing and collecting that if I decide I want to hold the reins with contact, they carry on and do it. If they have a problem with full contact, I either put them in a circle and lift up the inside, I'll back them up until their head is down, or I'll flex them side to side through a particular gait until they get happy with a straight head.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Than you, although I didn't really ask for a critique, just showing my horse’s behavior and trying to figure out if I should really retire him from Dressage.

This isn't a behavior he has only with me, this is how he behaves with anyone who really tries to get him on the bit and give him any type of rein contact. He has done this with trainers on him,he did this with someone who is now traveling the national eventing circuit,he did this with a girl who successfully shows second level. He hates any kind of rein contact, not just mine.

On top of this, if you aren't constant on holding him in,he will take full advantage and the next thing you know, you are in a hand gallop. 

There is just more going on than what is in the videos of the test.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Then, from what you are saying, I do not think this horse is ready to be a show Dressage horse. I think you should take him home and train him up to what makes the both of you happy, and then maybe down the road when he has more miles on him, think about it then. Otherwise I would just focus on the horse and not Dressage or showing. 

Also, I'm sorry I critiqued. I saw "What do you guys think?" as an opportunity to express that he could make a nice dressage horse with some flaws sorted out. Hope everything works out well


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I just see an extremely disobedient horse. Whether this is because of pain or training is up to you to determine. Overall I don't think he is the right horse for you to learn Dressage on. A more suitable horse would at least be amiable to the idea of not being a total butt about the contact and would ideally have prior training. I would like to think a more experienced rider/trainer (ie more experienced than those who have been on him before) riding him for a while might get him thinking about being a bit more cooperative.
Your riding has improved since I last saw you as well.

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

He looks gorgeous all spiffed up. He did not look happy at all during those rides, that constant head shaking gives me a headache. I hate to say this, but you need a different horse if you want to continue on in your dressage pursuits.


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

CIN have you had his back checked for soreness? That head tossing looks like he's hurting somewhere he only really does it at the trot a little at the canter. Maybe hes just a bit sore either in his back or his neck. maybe have a chiropractor work on him then see how he does.
I know you said you were not looking for a critic. Just a thought as to maybe more is going on then him just not liking dressage.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> *CIN have you had his back checked for soreness? That head tossing looks like he's hurting somewhere he only really does it at the trot a little at the canter. Maybe hes just a bit sore either in his back or his neck. maybe have a chiropractor work on him then see how he does.*
> *I know you said you were not looking for a critic. Just a thought as to maybe more is going on then him just not liking dressage.*


Over the past two years he has been poked, prodded stretched and tested by various professionals including chiros, vets,etc. He does have sporatic sacroilliac stiffness and he ihas had prior issues with back sensitivity leading to a lot of saddle firings etc. Both things have been well under control for a while by our vet.

Thank you for suggesting to check those things,I know a lot of people don't look there when their horse is a butt head.


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

After watching the videos and reading your posts, personally, I think it's time to move on. He's not the one. I am sorry to say that. 

I believe that life is too short and we hang on to things trying to make it fit. Make yourself happy. There's not a fit with him. Chalk it up to learning the beginnings of basic dressage and gaining lots of experience in working with your next dressage horse.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I was surprised by that video because I've seen so much better out of Cinny. I thought she (she?) looked sore on the front end (which could be caused by the back issues) while I was watching the video but I'm not really sure what I saw, other then a cranky pony! I thought you handedl it well though and Cinny was turned out beautifully...


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Looks like he doesn't accept contact at all, and as you say, he goes faster when you give him his head so he's probably never been taught to do so. Now you guys have this bracing vicious cycle happening. He probably needs to be taken back to basics and, once health issues (if there are any) are sorted out, reschooled. In the meantime, you will have much more fun learning dressage if you have something that is already trained and happy to go softy in a contact. Doesn't have to be a posh warmblood (as per one of your other threads). Just a sane horse that someone has already put a solid foundation on.


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

i haven't watched all of the videos, but from what i did see, i would have to agree with the appearance of an ill mannered, untrained horse. i think with going back to basics and really teaching this horse that it IS better/easier to relax into a soft contact you'll be better off. that does mean that you need to give a soft contact to start with. :wink:

your turnout is lovely btw and i think you and cinny could make good dressage partners. what it looks like to me is a horse that hasn't been clearly explained how things are supposed to work. the contact that i see in the videos isn't conducive to softness/lightness. again, this is all just my opinion and from only a snapshot of what your life with this horse is like. 

if you really want to work on dressage with this particular horse, find a trainer who will start at step one with him/her (is cinny a mare or a gelding? sorry!) and who has a well schooled horse that you can work on yourself with at the same time. then when you're both on the same page i think you can come back together and then work as a team. 

good luck!


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> I was surprised by that video because I've seen so much better out of Cinny.


Exactly, not typical Cinny behavior at all. He should be getting better, not worse especially since we have been working with a trainer again. I have been doing some research and..... I am about 95% sure Cinny has ulcers or other gastro intestinal issues going on. He started getting bad and progressing to worse about a month ago, right after his teeth float, shots and wormer... and then I took him to a show. His neighbor has been on stall rest for weeks and is acting up really badly, which I'm sure also stresses Cin out. It's been a high stress month for him.

1) He acts like he's starving but rarely finishes his food and I have been feeding him LESS than I was.

2) He is starting to loose weight

3) His "glow" is gone, he now has a dull coat

4) He is girthy, and he didn't used to be

5) He is sensitive to groom under his tummy and around his flanks

6) He wont' play in turnout anymore. He used to gallop around like a mad horse for half an hour or more, now he gallops for about a minute then suddenly stops and stands in one place like he's afraid to move.

7) He used to be wonderful on trail, now he's spooky and full of anxiety on trail including prancing the whole way, spinning, rearing and kicking out.

8) He seems crooked to one side and where he used to be strong on picking up correct canter leads, he won't

9) He is fine walking but trotting and cantering turn him into a major butthead and he even pins his ears when I ask for a canter, his favorite gait.

10) His teeth grinding was almost gone, but now it's back and worse than ever

11) He has occasionally shown signs of mild, short lived bouts of colic.

12) He is not performing to the level he was just months ago, even with training. 

13) People at my stable have commented on him seeming to be very cranky lately.

So.... I have ordered him some Ulcergard and SmartGut. I'm going to get him some stuff like Probios and the such today to help relieve his pain untll the other things get here, and I am putting him on rest. I'm also waiting for the vet to call me back to discuss his possible ulcers and whether or not he should be scoped at this point or just treat him, and what the treatment should be.


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

ime, with ulcers, the best things are free choice grass hay, a probiotic and something to help sooth the ulcers. i've found both U-gard (at half the recommended dose) or Dynamite's Miracle Clay work quite well and don't break the bank.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think that is a really good thought Cinny. I am very curious to see if there is a change. I know last summer I tried many, many things because I was having issues. Mine ended up being back pain from a poor fitting saddle, improper movement, and then sore feet because he was over reaching and stepping on the heel bulbs. It's amazing how much thought go's into figuring out what is ailing an animal...

Riley is on Farriers Magic, Magnesium, Vitamin B, smartflex, and adequan. I was thinking about adding some type of ulcer gaurd for show season...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

All great and thoughtful responses, people. Brave of you to post those videos, Cinny. it must have been a trying day. (though I wish we had a covered arena like that! ours is full of rain puddles.)
I thought the free walk sections went pretty well. Cinny does walk out nicely. How would he like to be put in a western saddle and have a very mild curb in his mouth? unjointed? I just wonder if the whole action of a jointed bit is not part of his worry regarding contact. And, a well designed curb would give him a presignal, and a quick release of contact and would require much LESS contact to make the same message. This is just a thought.

I would wonder about ulcers, too. I read that a horse that suddenly becomes a lot more spooky on the trail is often one that is dealing with pain. Since a horse can only really focus on one thing at a time (though it can change it's focus in a milisecond) will be riding along focussed on the pain, so that when something along the way suddenly comes into focus, it will be more abruptly and thus more frightening. A horse less focussed on pain would be looking outward more and see the "scary" thing well before he was right next to it, and have time to visually digest that it was just a stump , or a bird or what ever, so will walk on by.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Guess What???? A dose of Omeprazole and a lunch bucket consisting of 2 cups of alfalfa pellets mixed with about 25 tums tablets and.......

My horse was sweet, relaxed, and we had a wonderful little walk bareback... reins on the buckle. He moved to a little western jog, tensed for a minute, then relaxed....perked his ears and rounded out. Almost as if to say "wow, this doesn't hurt." He asked, and I let him canter a little.... he was a relaxed dream. Very little teeth grit, no head toss, no pulling the reins, no fight, just relaxed horse.

We walked down the road, on the buckle and enjoyed the breezy afternoon. 

This confirms it...... Ulcers or Acid reflux....or something. 

I've started an Ulcer thread and am waiting further instructions from our vet


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

When your horse feels better, you are going to have to get control of his head.

Not sure that is the only answer but, with out control of his head you are going no where with this.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Ripper said:


> When your horse feels better, you are going to have to get control of his head.
> 
> Not sure that is the only answer but, with out control of his head you are going no where with this.


Actually it turns out the head was just a symptom of his discomfort. Since he started treatment the head throwing is about 98% non existent as is the teeth gritting. However, I do need to go back and do some bitting work with him again. Now that he's more comfortable I think it will be a bit more effective. Each day I ride him he's better than the day before. 

Here is a vid from a couple days ago. He has only been under saddle 2 years, much of which he probably had the acid reflux issue so I am taking my time to do it right.


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