# Flatwork...



## hflmusicislife

Someone else could probably give you more advice.. But it looks like you're leaning too far back. When you are using a deeper seat, you should still be in balance with your horse, not behind your horse's movement. You also need to put more weight in your heels.

Just out of curiosity, how tall are you? That pony makes your legs look enormous!


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## Skyseternalangel

Your lower leg is too far forward in nearly all the photos.. I would work more on two point in the walk and trot and eventually canter. Since you are riding different horses it's hard to sum up what you can do to your position but to answer your question, you have to actively tell yourself to sit up tall.

Someone on the forum was linking this video. I watched it last night and really admired the advice for fixing your position. 

How To Practice Your Classical Seat In Horseback Riding - YouTube

There it has simple exercises to "fix" your position and gain more contact with the horse.

Watch your hands. I notice on some of them your hands are pretty good, others they go flat and are pulling for contact instead of pushing the horse into it. Open up your chest more and push those shoulders back and down. 

Looking pretty good though


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## Amlalriiee

when you say "motoring", do you mean that you pump your whole body in the canter??? (leaning forward and pumping your upper body with the horse?) If so, I've seen people do this a LOT(including myself)....try to focus on your upper body being still and balanced, with your lower body doing the moving. I find that pulling your shoulders up above your hip will mostly keep this from happening. Easier said than done though!


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## islansadi

Thank you everyone )



hflmusicislife said:


> Someone else could probably give you more advice.. But it looks like you're leaning too far back. When you are using a deeper seat, you should still be in balance with your horse, not behind your horse's movement. You also need to put more weight in your heels.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how tall are you? That pony makes your legs look enormous!


I am 167cm and the pony is 130  yeah, you can say he is too small for me but since small kids can't ride him...  because this pony has avery bad habit of attacking other horses :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorseyGirl12345

It looks like you are sitting back too much. Your lower leg is too far forward. And remember to keep your heels down. Once your heels go down, you may want to take your stirrups up a hole or two. Hope I could help! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi

Hey again ;DD
Sooo... The last time I was riding I tried to use everyone's advice. (Shorten stirrups, sit straighter, correct leg position etc.)


Here are some photos... Does anything look better and what else should I change?


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## Skyseternalangel

Your position has improved tremendously! You aren't motoring in many of the pictures (I think towards the end you may have gotten a little tired) but over all a very nice improvement.

Is this your pony?

I think the next step would be getting your pony to use its back and be on the bit. 

The 5th one shows the closest you were in these pictures. When the pony uses their back, your riding and their cadence/movement will improve tenfold. 

But very nice! Keep practicing  And make sure to keep your shoulders back and down as that will help you handle your reins and distribute your weight even better.

Make sense?


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## hflmusicislife

Agreed! Your jumping could still use a bit of work, but your flatwork is looking great!


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## islansadi

Skyseternalangel said:


> Your position has improved tremendously! You aren't motoring in many of the pictures (I think towards the end you may have gotten a little tired) but over all a very nice improvement.
> 
> *Is this your pony?*
> 
> I think the next step would be getting your pony to *use its back* and *be on the bit. *
> 
> The 5th one shows the closest you were in these pictures. When the pony uses their back, your riding and their cadence/movement will improve tenfold.
> 
> But very nice! Keep practicing  And make sure to keep your shoulders back and down as that will help you handle your reins and distribute your weight even better.
> 
> Make sense?


I only ride this horse, he is not mine... 

How can I make him use his back more? 
And what do you mean by "be on the bit"?


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## Skyseternalangel

islansadi said:


> I only ride this horse, he is not mine...
> 
> How can I make him use his back more?
> And what do you mean by "be on the bit"?


See in the pictures how the pony's back is dipping down like a bowl or a banana?










That's called hollow.. especially when paired with an upright neck rather than being level or stretched down neck. It's very tough for the rider to sit quietly on a hollow horse.. and the horse isn't very comfortable either. 

You want the spine to be curved upward like a small mountain and you cannot force this.. the horse's neck will begin to stretch forward and engaged so that the top of a horse's neck (where there are muscles) are bulging and working instead of the underside of the neck. 

It takes a lot of preparing and practice but it'll become easier for you to know how to ask and for the horse to happily travel in this manner.

Here's a pic of an engaged horse/rounder horse. PLEASE ignore the rider... ahaha this was before lessons:










Okay, so this rider sucks (it's me lol) she's leaning forward, she's throwing her hands away. But look at the horse.

The first step to get the horse to move properly is the rider has to ask the horse to move FORWARD. Leg is on and notice the pink markings. The pink dashes show how far UNDER the inside hind leg comes. The hind of a horse is the motor; it holds all of the power of the movement. The farther under the leg comes, the more POWER and ENERGY you are asking for (do not confuse this with speed.)
Once the horse is forward, the rider then needs to stop the new energy from escaping. The rider accomplishes this by closing their fingers and then asking the horse to soften. When the rider closes their fingers the energy is caught but then the energy cannot travel anywhere so the rider must encourage the horse to stretch down by following the horse's movement with their elbows and playing with the bit in their mouths. *DO NOT PULL THEM INTO AN ARCHED NECK!!!!* And *DO NOT LEAN ON THE REINS!!!* You will have to develop your own "feel" for it. Instructors are helpful also. When you accomplish this, the horse will stretch its neck down on its own. The top of the neck will bulge and then arch as shown by the blue arrow. These top neck muscles will pulse as those muscles are being worked. 
Once the horse is forward, the energy has been caught, and the horse begins to work those neck muscles, the rider must follow the horse's movement with their seat, not bracing just being nice and loose. When the rider has asked the horse, and the horse continues to do ALL of these things correctly, the spine will lift/curve as shown by the green arrow. 

This is a round horse. An engaged horse. Though not quite on the bit.. on the bit is when a horse is reaching for the bit and the rider isn't throwing away the contact like I am above... but even so.
Both of these adjectives describe a horse that is a lot easier to ride, and is overall more comfortable (though round is a lot of work so it takes some time.)

And this goes to show that even a crap rider like myself can prepare my horse to be round 
*
A good thing to note is YOU MUST CONTINUE TO RIDE IN THIS MANNER! Or your horse will slowly go back to hollow. It takes practice.. so don't be discouraged. *Your #5 was close to an engaged horse.

There are some tips on this website that will help you:
::: Sustainable Dressage - Rollkur - How And Why Not? - The Shoulder-In Volte for Stretching Over the Back :::

Just know that when you ride, you should not lean or brace against the horse. Move with the horse, push the horse forward. Instead of pulling back to stop or turn, use your ab muscles to keep your reins and simply stop all motion in your seat. 

I hope that helped.


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## islansadi

Wooow. Now you've made everything clear  
I'l try the things you mentioned with the chesnut mare (from older photos) because she is much younger than the pony (or maybe age doesn't matter??) and her body is more suitable for this. (again, I don't really know.. Maybe every horse can "round" himself?)
Well, thank you again )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi

_And the pony's neck is much thicker than you marked (if that changes anything ):








I don't know... Is this breed actualy able to "arch the neck"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Žemaitukas
_


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## Skyseternalangel

islansadi said:


> _And the pony's neck is much thicker than you marked (if that changes anything ):
> _


Nope except she's got more under-muscling (bottom of neck) than originally thought! But that's okay, age shouldn't matter but training will. If the other horse knows how to use their back, it'll be MUCH easier than training one fresh.

You're welcome, glad things make sense now!


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## islansadi

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...35709889_1236846488_32573659_1760025843_n.jpg
so, here is a new photo. Has my position improved at least a bit? Any advice how to correct mistakes?
I know that I still have very much work with release...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

Your lower leg position is fantastic!! Great job!

I am not a jumper so cannot say much about the release or upper half


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## tinyliny

hflmusicislife said:


> Someone else could probably give you more advice.. But it looks like you're leaning too far back. When you are using a deeper seat, you should still be in balance with your horse, not behind your horse's movement. You also need to put more weight in your heels.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how tall are you? *That pony makes your legs look enormous!*





_What a nice thing to say!_

_What do you mean by "motoring", op?_


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## islansadi

> _What do you mean by "motoring", op?_


I meant moving the body in order to make horse go faster  i don't know how to explain it better 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

Leaning forward, tipping??


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## tinyliny

this is my favorite shot. you are sitting very nicely. the only thing being to get your thumbs up on top. It looks like you are a tiny but leaning back, but the pony is very downhill in his conformation and this would create a very slight lean back to the rider. 
I think you ride like a very natural rider; in a way that isn't perfect by textbook form but that works for this small , athletic pony. The saddle is barely big enough for you.

on the big mare, you look much more tense and maybe gripping up with the knee and using the rein a wee bit for balance. just try to ride her like the pony; relaxe and let your self sink down, not just the heels, but the whole leg, as if it's dripping down her sides.


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## islansadi

Yeah, you're right... I am gripping my knees on the mare... I've fallen many times from her ant this is the result... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi




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## Skyseternalangel

Looking good!!  Any flat pics?


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## islansadi

No, I don' t have any new ones... Maybe today ;D
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi

Okay, well... I had a jumping lesson few days ago... It was quite awfull  I just couldn't jump that evil evil triple combination correctly... :/ I did it only from 3rd try... So, although I look baaad, I decided to put the video here and get some advice on how to look goooood 

here it goes, don't be very harsh...
P5150003.AVI - YouTube
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xJumperx

Jumping -

I see that you need to release just a little more. For the speed your going, you can still hold a little, but just a tiny bit more follow is in order.

Bring your shoulders back - you are hunching them just a bit over the jumps. I would ride around in two point for as much of the ride as you can. Just stay there, in two point, during your flat. Make sure your trainer says you look good, and just stay there, in that position. This will help muscle memory, and help you get better strength in all areas. 

Do you go to the gym? Do you do any sort of workout? I heavily reccommend it. Core work, leg work, is what I do. I might only do it 3 times a week now, but before I did those workouts every day of the week (not weekends,) and it has really done a lot of good to my riding! 

You have amazing potential  Keep going!!


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## islansadi

Do you mean I should ride the course in two-point? 

I think that would be a good idea... What exercises could you suggest? (what I could do at home) 

Thanks ;D


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## jumanji321

Your leg still swings back a bit, This could also be from the fact that your horse is too short for you so your lower leg doesn't have much to grab on to.


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## islansadi

With a bigger horse... I still don't give a propper release.... T_T
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...3890376209_1236846488_32611800_537178919_n.jp
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...48280166_1236846488_32606413_1528332779_n.jpg
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

It's almost like you're using them for balance, OP. I would work on your core strength on the flat before you jump but that's just me.


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## Amberish2002

For your release, I notice a nice straight line from your bit to elbow. How long have you been jumping? Are you following the motion with your hands and just keeping contact with the mouth? (automatic release) Or are you bracing against the mouth? Looks like the second, but only you can know...


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## Linzee

When we were being taught two-point we were taught to give a release by grabbing a chunk of mane a little bit forward of our hands. We did this in our lessons on the flat (could practice while your working on muscle memory!) and eventually it became instinctive to put our hands forward into two-point. Another thing we did was our instructor would just randomly tell us to go into two point on the flat and then critique our positioning, much like jumping minus the jump. 

You are definitely coming along! And your super eager  keep up the good work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi

Amberish2002 said:


> How long have you been jumping?
> 
> Are you following the motion with your hands and just keeping contact with the mouth? (automatic release) Or are you bracing against the mouth?


I dont really know... Maybe about 6months? 

I think it's more like the first one? At least I hope so 
As I jump, sometimes I can feel how the horse takes as much rein as he needs... At least the pony. I'm still really not used to the bigger one - he's so much differrent...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi

Linzee said:


> When we were being taught two-point we were taught to give a release by grabbing a chunk of mane a little bit forward of our hands. We did this in our lessons on the flat (could practice while your working on muscle memory!) and eventually it became instinctive to put our hands forward into two-point. Another thing we did was our instructor would just randomly tell us to go into two point on the flat and then critique our positioning, much like jumping minus the jump.
> 
> You are definitely coming along! And your super eager  keep up the good work.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, I started doing that too not so long ago... After I saw that I'm bad at combinations and can catch the horse's mouth.... As I see, holding the mane helps me a lot 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi

Some new flatwork photooos!!! 
Recently I started serious work with a mare named Loze (Losche). She has not the best character, but I like her and hope that soon we will become closer ^_^

































About the riding... I think that I still look a bit tense and my legs slip back... But I don't know how else I can make the mare round while turning... T_T Help pleaseeee.... 

Also, I try to "collect" her and make her head vertical (sorry, I don't know how to express my mind with other words ) She sometimes relaxes and does what I ask and sometimes she doesn't (it's clearly seen in photos )

So, that is my opinion about my mistakes and I would love to hear your critique


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## Skyseternalangel

Looking good! Nice shoulder hip heel line. You are curling up a little on your leg, try to stretch down so your weight is distributed evenly down your legs.

Keep those thumbs on top! 

In the second photo you look a lot more relaxed on top but there is tension down your legs. In the third photo you are VERY relaxed ontop but tense at the bottom. 

When you try and 'collect' her up, do you shorten the reins and keep pushing her forward or do you kind of pull her head into position? Just curious. 

Personally I would want the reins a hair longer so you could open up your chest more and sit a little deeper but very nice OP!

The 2nd photo she is turning/bending and staying put together. Where exactly do you have trouble with losing the "connected" feeling when turning? You mentioned your leg slips back.


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## islansadi

When I turn her she tends to "fall". Then I try to hold herself with my leg, but it is not enough, then I have to push my leg much harder (that's why my bottom looks tense) Also, when turning, she always turns her head where needed, but her doesn't change direction. Then I have to push my legs again, and this time much further from the girth, that's when my leg slips back.

When I'm collecting the mare, I keep her moving and at the same time I keep twitching the reins gently -left, right, left, right... When I'm turning, I use only the inner rein and just keep in contact with the other...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi

*her body doesn't change direction
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

Oh.

I was taught to turn with my body, and on a green horse use the rein and sort of "open" the door.

How I do it is look where I want to go, hold with my inside leg and tap with my outside leg and bring my outside hand a little further from the horse's neck to support their shoulder and my inner hand encourages them to stretch as my seat moves them forward.

Your leg supports the horse's body, but your hand supports their shoulder. If they're falling in, your hand isn't helping. Only a trainer can help you with that as it's a moving deal and you need step by step coaching. Especially if you ride differently than I do. 

Maybe you turn too sharply for her level of fitness?


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## islansadi

Yeah, our riding styles are very different 
Here, in Lithuania, everyone is taught to ride pinching with knees, especially in jumping... So when I read that everyone here doen't ride like this it was very strange 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

Yep  That's naughty in our book. If you ride without pinched knees though, you eventually will gain strength from using just your balance alone and will become a very very good rider.

Not saying you aren't now, because you've made remarkable progress and your position is amazing, but you can only improve more!


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## islansadi

Thanks 
Everyone here has helped me very much and I'm very grateful for that )

When I started riding using my balance more, I realised, that I don't feel as exhausted as before and I stopped falling from horses ^_^
I don't even remember when was the last time i fell... (yesterday in the race was the first time when I stayed on a bucking mare and didn't feel much D)
Thank you again 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

You're welcome!! And I'm glad!


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## goingnowhere1

I think you need to put your elbows in more and hold your reins and make sure your thumbs are pointing to the sky. I tmay be the camera angle that makes you look like you're holding your hands like you'd ride a bike. You also seem to have your hands by the pommel. Give the pony room to breathe, put your hands forward, escpecially when you jump. And toes need to be pointing forward! (this is coming from a dressage person...I don't know what your goal is)


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## SwiftFan14

*flatwork...*

To stop motoring your horse keep your horse in front of you by keeping your hands up. also you need to keep your heel down and leg tight.


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## islansadi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSKXiMSi7Oc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
okay... This might be the the last time when I try racing, because I like jumping more 
but anyway, I think it would be great to have a little critique for me AND the horse.  (we don't use racing saddles because we will participate only in races without any arabs or thoroughbreds, by the way, we're not professionals ) 

What I think from seeing that video is my hands... I don't have any contact with the horse... If you see anything else (I'm sure you will ) tell me the mistake and how to get rid of it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## islansadi

Hey 
We had a small show and I participated with my beloved mare Loze ) Sadly, we were disqualified for refusals  But oh well, maybe next time will be better D

Here are some photos. From them I can see that I'm slowly going down... T_T So I need to get better soon )

1) Flapping with my arms... D









2) Leaning forward... :// By the way, does she look collected? Are her hind legs good or should they step more forward?


3) One jump was caught on video... (sorry for bad quality...)
I look awful, I'm standing on the stirrups completely D Maybe it's because the mare's jump is so rounded?  
How can I make my position better? The horse always makes jumps like that and I don't want to ruin her )











And for some fun...  Time to sit and take a rest  











I hope you understood everything I said here DD


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## islansadi

Hey 
We had a small show and I participated with my beloved mare Loze ) Sadly, we were disqualified for refusals  But oh well, maybe next time will be better D

Here are some photos. From them I can see that I'm slowly going down... T_T So I need to get better soon ) I would like to hear your opinion how to correct my mistakes ) 
I can see some of them, but not everything, so.... Go on )

1) Flapping with my arms... D









2) Leaning forward... :// By the way, does she look collected? Are her hind legs good or should they step more forward?


3) One jump was caught on video... (sorry for bad quality...)
I look awful, I'm standing on the stirrups completely D Maybe it's because the mare's jump is so rounded?  
How can I make my position better? The horse always makes jumps like that and I don't want to ruin her )











And for some fun...  Time to sit and take a rest  











I hope you understood everything I said here DD


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## Amberish2002

I'm thinking She may need some time with Either a ground rail rolled out about .5 to.75 m in front of the jump Or a very ramped oxer With the front bar very low and the back at normal height. If she does that all the time, she may need a little help backing herself off the jumps. Schoolong that way for a while may help.

Also, if you find that you are holding back, it may cause her to get to the base and have to jump more up than over. I can't tell without seeing the approach, however. 
good luck!


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## islansadi

I'm back with my beloved crazy ponyyyy ;DD I just realised that few days ago, in a competition it was my 1,5years of riding "anniversary"  I'm very happy for that ) Soo, here are some photos from the competition:







Approaching the jump







70cm - 3rd place of 18







I see that I started holding onto the horse with my heels... This is bad, I guess? How can I make that habit go away? I'll be waiting for your response


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## horselessmom

I can't comment on the quality of your horse or your riding, since I don't know much about riding, but I just wanted to comment on the quality of your photos--they always look stunning. 

Your horse looks so beautiful too.

I was grew up in one of the Baltic States, so I look at your photos with interest.


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## islansadi

Ohh, thank you  
I don't like posting bad quality photos. If the quality is not the best, I usually add some effects, so that no one would notice that 

By the way, I'm still waiting for critique..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel

Well I see some improvements overall!


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