# Anyone 'For' Parelli??



## GreenTreeFrog (Sep 26, 2009)

I have just started with horses and like the Parelli Program because for someone like me who knows nothing, it is presented well and I am getting excellent results between myself and my horse. 

I like structure and routine, I raised my kids on Gina Ford's Contented Baby books! Now there is a contentious issue for ya!!


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

First I think Pat Parelli's program is an excellent learning material. It's the best I've seen so far because pretty much anyone can learn it if they want to and there is a huge emphasis on not boring, abusing or otherwise torturing your horse. The program puts a very good foundation on the horse for a trainer and gets them prepared for any finishing work. I am not a professional because I refuse to take money when I help people out. I've coached, mentored, and trained other people's horses and having said that there are probably 50 so called professionals here that will take your money but only 3 that are worth hiring. In fact, of the so called professionals most of them could benefit hugely by actually studying Pat's program before they start bashing it. Parelli is just good horsemanship and yes there are other horseman out there that are also good like Cinton Anderson, Stacey Westfall, John Lyons, and I could probably name more. 

Oh yes although I still look young I'm not and I have been riding for over 40 years and have been breaking/starting horses for 30 years... so that's my two cents worth


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Brooke it's nice to meet you. Just because you're young doesn't mean that your not good and just because you're an amateur doesn't mean that you're a beginner. That's probably what you mean - that you're not a beginner but who cares what does that matter.... sheesh

I've got quite a few horses so I'll list say three:

Quarter horse foundation type LBI with RBE tendencies. She's gorgeous stocky horse and will end up being a nice riding horse for my hubby.

Appaloosa/Mustang cross who is LBE with RBE tendencies. She is so pretty with all her stripes and also has a dorsal stripe. She's got some real interesting color. She has been so fun to start and is progressing very well. She's got some pretty good movement.

Hanoverian who is pretty stunning bay with lots of chrome. The most challenging horse I own extreme LBI and extreme RBI but is really all over the map. He would probably a very excellent hunter as he's got the looks and has great form over the fences. But I like dressage and so that's pretty much what we do but we do it naturally. 

BTW the Parelli program is for beginners, the experienced, the professional, and for the performance athlete: it is a program that has many types of people not just focused on beginners.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

A friend of mine gave me her level 1 and 2 parelli dvd's, i watched a little bit on disk one, but it was mostly just Linda talking about using the carrot stick and string, then i got really busy and i haven't had time to finish watching them, I'm planning to come spring so i can put what i learn to good use.
A little about me, I'm 25, i got my first 2 horses(Blue and Tiffany) when i was 12,which is basically when i started riding,They were sold to us as 15-16 years old, but ended up they were 20-25 , Tiffany was put down about 6-7 years ago, she had a large abdominal tumor, and Blue is still going strong at 33-38, we do light bareback rides around the pasture, he taught me everything i know, he's a great horse, he's very barn/ring and buddy sour, but at his age we don't even ride out of the pasture anymore. a few months before we lost Tiffany i was given a horse named Skip, he would have benefited from parelli, he's a crazy bucker/rearer/bolter, i had him for 2 years, i gave him to a friend who could have a trainer work with her, then she gave him away again and i thought the worst until a few weeks ago when i found him at the place i just started taking lessons at...
Back in the end of may i rescued an OTTB Bella(Alyrunj is her registered name), she will be 14 in june, she is a great horse, but she does seem to have some issues(cow kicking when you are on her and she doesn't want to move).
My last horse is Legacy, he is a leopard appy in his late teens-20's, also a rescue, he's a huge chicken, terribly ear shy, will rear and strike when he gets scared(TERRIFIED OF THE CARROT STICK) and does not trust anyone behind his flank, having his feet done the first time was interesting, although he's better now, we tried to have a massage done on him because he is horribly tight and all the could do was his face, a little on his neck, shoulders and chest...he will be the one i really work with parelli on, it would really help if i had a history on him lol Sorry this is so long, i tend to ramble late at night when i'm tired lol, it's really nice to meet you all, i see a lot of bashing going on about parelli so i'm always a bit hesitant to ask questions in regards to his methods


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Hi Rachel nice to meet you. Cow kicking when you're on her now that's talent  
Do you ground drive her before riding? Your appy sounds like a typical victim of abuse. Sometimes just giving them time to observe you really helps and not doing much of anything for a while. Remember to do lots of approach and retreat.

It sounds like you've got the old levels DVD. The newer ones are, well I don't know if better is the right word they are different. The old ones are harder to get through because it's kind of boring and takes forever to watch. But if you have no experience with horses I think they are good because it's broken down into such detail that someone can learn from it. The new DVDs are a little faster in teaching the material and I think for most people it's better. 

It sounds like you've got a few horses to keep you entertained!


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

TheLovedOne said:


> Remember to do lots of approach and retreat.


this is something i've always wondered when i hear a parelli say this, do you all know exactly when to approach and when to retreat? or are you just doing it at regular intervals?

because unless your "approaching" when your horse is "retreating", and your "retreating" when your horse is "approaching" (applies to everything when it comes to horses, it's the theory of pressure/release also known as negative reinforcment) there is no point at all and your creating unconfidence in the horse.


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

christopher said:


> this is something i've always wondered when i hear a parelli say this, do you all know exactly when to approach and when to retreat? or are you just doing it at regular intervals?
> 
> because unless your "approaching" when your horse is "retreating", and your "retreating" when your horse is "approaching" (applies to everything when it comes to horses, it's the theory of pressure/release also known as negative reinforcment) there is no point at all and your creating unconfidence in the horse.



Christopher,
Stop talking about timing ,balance,and feel!

Just let them follow the step by step thing until their horse hates the sight of them...Ha!


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

It will never cease to amaze me how to some, a lack of respect and training equates to the horse had to be abused at some point. 

I think just like any other program, there are a few good tidbits that are worth learning, but it is not the "end all be all" of horse learning. And though it may work with some horses, it certainly won't work with all.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I would love to try it but I cannot afford to pay it...


I tried the friendly game on my mare and she was doing good until I got to her udders...Lets just say I will not be attempting to touch there again XD


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Let me get this right:
You're 17 years old, autistic and you make "tons of money" with horses. You studied Pat's program and learned lots of what you know but it wasn't the program that taught you because "the program" is mostly BS - right. Oh yes I won't forget this one - you don't know what roundpenning is but you watched a few of Pat's DVDs. Well I'm convinced that you are a hugely skilled horseman - not. You think because I mention approach and retreat I am doing something wrong... thanks Christopher good luck making "lots of money with horses" as I know there a virtually no people that earn tons of money with horses. Here I'll give you a simple business lesson so that it'll help you determine what you actually earn:

(Add up all the money you collect) - (Add up all your expenses ) = the net revenue

Still making lots of money...


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Apachiedragon the appy is FEARFUL not DISRESPECTFUL. You must focus when you read


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

christopher said:


> this is something i've always wondered when i hear a parelli say this, do you all know exactly when to approach and when to retreat? or are you just doing it at regular intervals?
> 
> because unless your "approaching" when your horse is "retreating", and your "retreating" when your horse is "approaching" (applies to everything when it comes to horses, it's the theory of pressure/release also known as negative reinforcment) there is no point at all and your creating unconfidence in the horse.


 
You approach your horse and when he does what you want you retreat. 

Example: 

Approach your horse with a tarp and even though hes scared he stands still, you retreat. (the approach is the test, the retreat is the award)


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Sissygobob you're right. If Christopher really did watch the DVDs he would know about roundpenning and also approach/retreat. I'm starting to wonder how much you actually learned from PP. I love learning and not just from PP but his program is well organized, and well thought out.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

TheLovedOne said:


> Sissygobob you're right. If Christopher really did watch the DVDs he would know about roundpenning and also approach/retreat. I'm starting to wonder how much you actually learned from PP. I love learning and not just from PP but his program is well organized, and well thought out.


 
Yeah I have never watched a PP DVD only saw him on tv...... I learned that from several horse trainers..... and common sence lol


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Loved one-difference is others are not obnoxious about their approach to others. I find your attitude quite typical of what I HATE about Parelli-ites. Unfortunately, I think that even tho there are relatively few like you, it is like the old saying...."one bad apple..". Totally turns me off to PP and his cult like followers. I think that is what turns so many others off too. You have NO tolerance at all, and act like you are the be-all end-of of the horsey world. Well-here is a news flash-you are not, and neither is PP. You may like his DvD's-great! many of us find them extremely BORING.....ZZZZZZZ!!!!! Yes, he does have some good techniques, but so do others. 
And-BTW-I agree with Apachie-the horse may well be fearful, but I think he is also disrepectful, and for sure lacks training! JMHO. And yeah-I read it, and paid attention. Thanks. We will all have to be more careful of our every word in the presence of "the perfect one".
Get over yourself.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Franknbeans I find it interesting that you find Parelli so boring when you admit that you cannot teach your horse the games. You are very insulting. BTW your idols Chris Cox and Clinton Anderson are actually teaching very similar things to Pat Parelli. When you're at the Road to the Horse hopefully you can finally see that.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Yeah I noticed Clinton anderson and parelli do the exact same things...


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Sarahandlola said:


> Yeah I noticed Clinton anderson and parelli do the exact same things...


That's because none of them have created anything new :wink:

They each just package their program slightly differently and to different demographics. 

Ray Hunt, Tom and Bill Dorrance... those are the real fathers of 'natural' horsemanship. Nothing any of the big name clinicians are doing is new.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

TheLovedOne said:


> Franknbeans I find it interesting that you find Parelli so boring when you admit that you cannot teach your horse the games. You are very insulting. BTW your idols Chris Cox and Clinton Anderson are actually teaching very similar things to Pat Parelli. When you're at the Road to the Horse hopefully you can finally see that.


Actually, if YOU were paying attention when YOU read, you would note that (a) I have 2 horses. (b) the one I was "unable" to teach the games to, is semi-retired and now 22 yrs old. He doesn't see the point, and neither do I. The other, one the other hand, is actually AT a Parelli barn, and is pretty good at the games. Thanks.

Secondly, again, if you paid attention, I do not have any "idols". I believe they ALL have something to offer, and every horse needs different "tools". I prefer to keep my mind open to all of them, rather than shutting it behind PP.:wink:


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I don't know what you have against me FranknBeans but from the moment I joined this forum you have insulted me again and again. I do not appreciate your comments about shutting behind PP whatever that means lol. I am not hateful towards any clinician. In fact, I do have an open mind but it is you that is so very hateful towards Parelli and the only reason I can see is because you were unable to teach it and that some people have made you upset. Now I think it is you that needs to grow up a bit.

Yeah Parelli is nothing new we did much of it in the 70s and the other NH clinicians are doing pretty much the same stuff too. I always laugh when I hear things like I hate Parelli but love Clinton Anderson ... like why.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

One more time, just for those with reading comprehension issues-I do not hate Parelli, nor do I idolize or love anyone else. Yes, I prefer CA, since he also shows how to handle typical things that can go wrong when training many horses, whereas, PP does not. If I hated PP, would I be at a PP barn, working with a PP certified instructor? 
What I dislike are the Parelli followers who can resemble cult members. Plain and simple. 
So that you understand my reference, I remain to practitioners. That means that PP is not the only one I listen to, shutting out all others.
Sorry my "attitude" annoys you. This is a forum, and you are not my mother, nor may you insult me or any other woman by calling me a "housewife" via PM. Really?


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## cloudkisser (Jul 19, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> One more time, just for those with reading comprehension issues-I do not hate Parelli, nor do I idolize or love anyone else. Yes, I prefer CA, since he also shows how to handle typical things that can go wrong when training many horses, whereas, PP does not. If I hated PP, would I be at a PP barn, working with a PP certified instructor?
> What I dislike are the Parelli followers who can resemble cult members. Plain and simple.
> So that you understand my reference, I remain to practitioners. That means that PP is not the only one I listen to, shutting out all others.
> Sorry my "attitude" annoys you. This is a forum, and you are not my mother, nor may you insult me or any other woman by calling me a "housewife" via PM. Really?


 
I agree. I started with PP and loved it but once I was introduced to CA I took my horse to a whole new level. I thik CA is a better teacher. Every time he teaches you something he shows you what might go wrong and explains how to correct it. PP always seems to work with well trained horses that seem to already know is methods at least on his levels 1-4 dvd's I'v seen a couple videos on his "members only" page where he is working with a green horse but I really had to search. Whereas CA seems to always work with green horses. I do feel both teach basically the same thing I just think you will accomplish your goal faster and with less guessing and questions using CA....just my opinion


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

TheLovedOne said:


> Sissygobob you're right. If Christopher really did watch the DVDs he would know about roundpenning and also approach/retreat. I'm starting to wonder how much you actually learned from PP. I love learning and not just from PP but his program is well organized, and well thought out.


Would be nice if he could ride and could actually get the horses to do things correctly though.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

TheLovedOne said:


> I always laugh when I hear things like I hate Parelli but love Clinton Anderson ... like why.


Can not say I love CA but at least he has proven what he dose works in front of and among his piers by an independent judge.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

SissyGoBob said:


> You approach your horse and when he does what you want you retreat.
> 
> Example:
> 
> Approach your horse with a tarp and even though hes scared he stands still, you retreat. (the approach is the test, the retreat is the award)


that's what i mean by when your approaching, the horse is retreating, and when you're retreating, the horse is approaching.

if the horse does neither and is oblivious to it, approach with it untill the horse shows signs of fear, then if the horse runs away (or "retreats") you follow ("approach") them, teaching them that running away ("retreating") isn't an effective way out of the pressure. but if curiosity overcomes in the horse and the horse "approaches" the tarp to touch it (nose neck maybe the feet), don't wait for him to touch it, walk away ("retreat") with it the moment he takes a step in it's direction ("approaches"), then up the ante later.



TheLovedOne said:


> Sissygobob you're right. If Christopher really did watch the DVDs he would know about roundpenning and also approach/retreat. I'm starting to wonder how much you actually learned from PP. I love learning and not just from PP but his program is well organized, and well thought out.


flattering. i am (not too proud to be) level 4+ of his program and it's been suggested to me that i become a parelli professional, which i am seriously considering just because having such an endorsment behind me would get me more customers.

in his DVDs i don't beleive parelli ever teaches roundpenning. he teaches liberty, but on line is a prerequisite for his version of liberty, that he says himself. if you tried liberty before doing any on line with a horse whatsoever, THEN you'd be roundpenning, and if you follow liberty methods when roundpenning a wild horse, you're complicating it further than need be. the concepts are the same but the methods vary greatly.

as i've said before, parelli is not good horsemanship, only good horsemanship is and ever will be good horsemanship. parelli's just a way of learning it. same goes for countless other DIY horse training programs, as the only difference is the programs. the concepts are all exactly the same, and have all been exactly the same since i imagine the first horse was ever tamed by man.

all you need to know is level 1, and how to up the ante; so perhaps level 2. and with consistency, before you know it you'll be level 8.


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## Kathlene (Feb 12, 2011)

I have been trying to decide on a good hosemanship series and I am thinking really hard about getting this one. It is just so much money to pay that I want to be sure... I am glad that you started this thead.. am looking forward to the input!


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I have not studied CA in great depth and think that it's great that he's helping you achieve your goals NRHAREINER. Your comments are interesting. But I do have to say that PP does also compete and has been competing I think working cow and such type events. He is also competing at the Road to the Horse and in the past has won many colt starting competitions. I have also seen him handle young greenies but yes he says himself that he doesn't want to show you what things look like when they go wrong. Instead he wants to show how things look when they're done right. So I guess it's a different philosophy. 

I think what his levels program does is teach what you need to know in an organized manner with a lot of structure. I think it's a good format for a lot people from beginners to people that have holes in their knowledge and to people that are curious about what it's all about. For me I already practiced much of it but I also discovered holes in my process for starting horses. It changed my approach in some ways but overall as I say this is nothing new but I still did learn from him.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

The Parellis have this club called the Saavy Club which contains a vault of video clips for members to watch. In those video clips there is quite a lot of horse handling/riding with horses that are having some challenges.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

TheLovedOne said:


> I have not studied CA in great depth and think that it's great that he's helping you achieve your goals NRHAREINER.
> 
> *Never said CA was helping me achieve my goals. That is what a real trainer is for not some DVD Trainer. *
> 
> ...


Problem is is that system does not work for every horse in every situation and every person. Yet PP seems to like to market as it does. It is find to use bits and pieces to help fill in areas where needed. However no program will fill every hole.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

nrhareiner said:


> Problem is is that system does not work for every horse in every situation and every person. Yet PP seems to like to market as it does. It is find to use bits and pieces to help fill in areas where needed. However no program will fill every hole.


agreed.
no program will work sure fire for any horse. but all the different programs all follow the same principles. i think what parelli means when he says someone is "savvy", is someone understands the principles enough to make their own program for each individual horse.

either way, despite my level 4 and considerations into becoming a parelli professional, i think good horsemanship is good horsemanship and how you learn it doesn't matter, as long as you've learned it properly.

if you know how to read a horse thoroughly, then your horse itsself will teach you more in 30 minutes than pat parelli could teach you in a lifetime. if he disagrees with that then he's contradicting his own teachings about chauvanism.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

cloudkisser said:


> I agree. I started with PP and loved it but once I was introduced to CA I took my horse to a whole new level. *I thik CA is a better teacher. Every time he teaches you something he shows you what might go wrong and explains how to correct it.* PP always seems to work with well trained horses that seem to already know is methods at least on his levels 1-4 dvd's I'v seen a couple videos on his "members only" page where he is working with a green horse but I really had to search. Whereas CA seems to always work with green horses. I do feel both teach basically the same thing I just think you will accomplish your goal faster and with less guessing and questions using CA....just my opinion


Agree totally. I just think CA is more engaging as a teacher. As I said, I find PP videos really boring and monotonous.

Perhaps PP has videos online for "Savvy club" members that have some better problem-solving in them, but I don't have a desire to spend more $$ just to be a member of the club. Only way it works for me is to have a friend, or a group pitch in for it-that helps defer the cost, and you can all share the "Savvy club" videos you get in the mail, plus the discounts, which are substantial. CA offers a similar kind of thing also.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Here is just anouther example of my problem with PP. At the top of this page there is an add banner. "revolutionary new training method."

Really new??


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Looks like Pat is using a "revolutionary new training method" here.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

I have not read the entire forum because it turned into pointing fingers and making fun but I did read where people started to talk about how PP and CA were the same things- I have to disagree. I love CA's methods, granted I have yet to follow his entire program because I use some of his and some of my own and Martha Josey.... a little of everything...whatever I want really lol, but anyways I always thought Clinton Anderson got you there (as in got yourr horse where you want it) with a lot less bumps, he will tell you what to do if your horse rebels or doesn't do what your asking. I have never heard Parelli do that and I have watched several videos on youtube and on tv (no DVDs or Clinics, so Im no guru when it comes to PP) I think PP is more fun and play and "be one with your horse" and Clinton Anderson is more "you ask, then you tell, eventually you only have to suggest" and yeah I like playing with my horse but I seriously didn't find those "games" on PP fun..... Seemed like a nice way of saying lets exhaust you and your horse in a nice way. 

Anywho, before I offend anyone I just wanted to say I think they are kinda similar yes, but not the same at all CA seems more serious, better explained and user friendly. 

And I have heard of people getting rude PMs. If I do, I will report you, you need to grow up.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

and after watching that video I really don't like PP.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I could not agree with you more SissyGoBob!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Good post. The games are fun, and I do them when I have lots of extra time or cannot ride that day for some reason. I do not tend to do the "play days" etc. They are similar because they both use tried and true methods, IMO. And I totally agree that CA is more "user friendly". He also does do "real" showing too, which, to me, adds credibility.
Tabbi-the Catwalk video has been hashed over on a previous thread.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

christopher said:


> that's what i mean by when your approaching, the horse is retreating, and when you're retreating, the horse is approaching.
> 
> if the horse does neither and is oblivious to it, approach with it untill the horse shows signs of fear, then if the horse runs away (or "retreats") you follow ("approach") them, teaching them that running away ("retreating") isn't an effective way out of the pressure. but if curiosity overcomes in the horse and the horse "approaches" the tarp to touch it (nose neck maybe the feet), don't wait for him to touch it, walk away ("retreat") with it the moment he takes a step in it's direction ("approaches"), then up the ante later.
> 
> ...


 
for the record "he teaches liberty" *thats what gets young/begginer horse owners hurt. And your not making much scence....at all. CA did not teach me this, but "roundpenning" is the greatest tool to teach a horse I have a 2 year old that you follow me to through fire because of "roundpenning"


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

nrhareiner said:


> Problem is is that system does not work for every horse in every situation and every person. Yet PP seems to like to market as it does. It is find to use bits and pieces to help fill in areas where needed. However no program will fill every hole.


 
1st off you two are attacking each other. 2nd I pretty much agree with you Nrhareiner, however your comment about "yeah if you can call that competing"...... thats unnecessary. Cow horse event people work just as hard as the rest of us. (I am one) 

I think you 2 are going overboard in insulting each other.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

SissyGoBob said:


> 1st off you two are attacking each other. 2nd I pretty much agree with you Nrhareiner, however your comment about "yeah if you can call that competing"...... thats unnecessary. Cow horse event people work just as hard as the rest of us. (I am one)
> 
> I think you 2 are going overboard in insulting each other.


First there is no attacking here. Just a good debate.

Also my comment about saying if you can call that showing has NOTHING to with cow horse. I have horses who have multiple top 5 in NRCHA open and Int. Open bridle. So I know exactly what it takes to compete in cow horse events. I have seen what PP calls competing and where he has competing. Again if you can call it that. 

What PP does is fare from correct or good.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

SissyGoBob said:


> 1st off you two are attacking each other. 2nd I pretty much agree with you Nrhareiner, however your comment about "yeah if you can call that competing"...... thats unnecessary. Cow horse event people work just as hard as the rest of us. (I am one)
> 
> I think you 2 are going overboard in insulting each other.


Sissy- I don't think the mod (NRHA) has been insulting to anyone. I may be wrong, but I think the "competing" was aimed more toward the colt starting stuff that PP does so much of. More like exhibitions. CA has a string of horses he shows and breeds. Totally different.

I do think this thread has gone a bit off track though. I believe the OP was looking for people who are "for" PP.

Plus, I can only say the same thing so many ways, and am getting tired of the childish pm's.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> Plus, I can only say the same thing so many ways, and am getting tired of the childish pm's.


Report 'em, Frank. People aren't supposed to be harassing others via PM.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

nrhareiner said:


> First there is no attacking here. Just a good debate.
> 
> Also my comment about saying if you can call that showing has NOTHING to with cow horse. I have horses who have multiple top 5 in NRCHA open and Int. Open bridle. So I know exactly what it takes to compete in cow horse events. I have seen what PP calls competing and where he has competing. Again if you can call it that.
> 
> What PP does is fare from correct or good.


 
There is no need to be rude. You don't need to "strut your stuff" (I have horses who have multiple top 5 in NRCHA open and Int. Open bridle.) I was just saying that is not the way it appeared. And no, debate is arguing a subject people have gone low enough to call names at this point. 

I could tell you I was IRA champ last year and hardly anyone would know for sure weather I was lying or not so we aren't playing who's stick is bigger. That is childish.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Report 'em, Frank. People aren't supposed to be harassing others via PM.



I agree. If you are getting harassing PMs hit the report button. It will allert all the mods to the problem and it will be looked into.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

nrhareiner said:


> I agree. If you are getting harassing PMs hit the report button. It will allert all the mods to the problem and it will be looked into.


Thanks-I have looked twice and do not see a report button for pm's. Hopefully they will stop. If I get any more, I will forward them to the Admin.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> Thanks-I have looked twice and do not see a report button for pm's. Hopefully they will stop. If I get any more, I will forward them to the Admin.



it is the small red square with an exclamation point in it at the top right corner of the PM just under the add banner.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Thank you.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

We should really stop having discussions on Parelli... It never goes good...


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

what about people who actually are for parelli and want to talk about it ? really sucks for them


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Yeah, I agree... But what can ya do?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

While that is all good and seems simple the problem I think most have is that it turns in to a rainbow and butterfly type thing and people do not get all the info about PP. It turns into the wonderful can do everything for every owner for every horse in every situation. Which it is not and people feel the need to point this out.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

And turns into a huge argument and debate.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Perhaps there are forums specifically for the people "pro" Parelli. Other than the obvious Savvy club one that I think you woiuld have to pay to join?
Maybe this one?
Recent posts |

It always does turn into a discussion on any of the general forums I have been to.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

nrhareiner said:


> While that is all good and seems simple the problem I think most have is that it turns in to a rainbow and butterfly type thing and people do not get all the info about PP. It turns into the wonderful can do everything for every owner for every horse in every situation. Which it is not and people feel the need to point this out.


 Exactly. Nail on the head. :wink:


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

I personally have given up and realize that a great part of modern day horse ownership is about games,entertainment,and eye appeal.

People are going to be drawn to the "Showboat" with the flashy sayings and the trampoline mounting trick.
They want to see horses playing with big blow up balls and jumping picnic tables.
The public demands tricks and a vaudeville show filled with standing on your horse as it is lying on the ground.

Somehow people learn from antics like this while there are true,dedicated horseman that go unrecognized and ignored and go about there day helping horses and people without all the spin.

This is the modern horse market.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Marecare. Sad but true.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

so what if thats what some people want to do with their horse ? parelli has always been a trick trainer. 

why do parelli threads always have to be so negative ? if you dont like it dont participate.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> so what if thats what some people want to do with their horse ? parelli has always been a trick trainer.
> 
> why do parelli threads always have to be so negative ? if you dont like it dont participate.


I think if that was how he marketed him program as a trick training program and not this magical fix all program then no one would have a problem with it. Thing is he does not market it that way. Right now on this very forum he is marketing his program as a revolutionary new way to train your horse. It is not revolutionary or new.

That right there is the rub with PP program that I think most people have.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Marecare said:


> I personally have given up and realize that a great part of modern day horse ownership is about games, entertainment, and eye appeal.


I think it's not so much about "games, balls and carrot sticks" as it is about looking for the magical "fix" of all problems in no time. And that's what bunch of different trainers promise all over the internet. And if the problem is not getting "fixed" it's either you "didn't do it right" or "you didn't do it enough". :? 

I have no problem people having fun with their horses (like my qh likes to knock down and roll around the barrels), however the fun should be an icing on top of cake - I mean the real training and education should come first.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

nrhareiner said:


> I think if that was how he marketed him program as a trick training program and not this magical fix all program then no one would have a problem with it.


Exactly right. Tommie Turvey calls himself "trick trainer" (and I have to say IMHO he's way more spectacular and talented than PP), however I've never seen PP calling himself the one.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

so what though ? if people like it and want to do it and it works for them why do you care so much ?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> so what though ? if people like it and want to do it and it works for them why do you care so much ?


Because the Parelli-ites can't keep their opinions to themselves. If someone isn't doing Parelli, then they harangue them continuously about how they're being 'mean' and 'cruel' to their horses, and only Pat Pepperoni is The Way, The Truth, and The Light when it comes to training horses.

If you want to shake a rutabaga stick at your horse and call it 'playing games', good on ya. Just keep your opinions to yourself when it comes to how someone else trains _their_ horses.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

yeah but this is a 'for parelli' thread so if you arent for parelli maybe you can debate this somewhere else...


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

I went to a parelli show _(hey the ticket was free...)_ I went with an open mind.

All he and Linda did was walk around, watching everyone make their horses stand on obstacles and bounce balls around. The horses didn't look to pleased.
Apparently thats a major accomplishment to parelli followers? 

I cant remember if anyone actually rode and if they did it sure wasn't anything spectacular. Heck iv looked them up on youtube and over half the videos just show jumping over barrels, picnic tables and running around in circles.

It seems like they rely on the _(OMG THATS AMAZING!!!!)_ response to pick up new followers.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> yeah but this is a 'for parelli' thread so if you arent for parelli maybe you can debate this somewhere else...


Sorry dear, it's an open,_ public_ forum. You don't get to tell people where, when, and what they can post.

Besides, I was answering the questions_ you_ put forth. You asked _why_ people don't like Parelli, and I told you.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i didnt mean your response to me, i meant the negative talk in general, sorry if i didnt make that clear.

yes this is a public forum, but if someone posts a thread to be positive about what they do with their horses [esp dealing with parelli as every thread about parelli on this forum goes south] it is polite to keep your negative opinions to yourself. i think its disrespectful to ruin their positive thread because you[not you specifically, but people in general] dont like the trainer. i wasnt telling you that you are not allowed to post, but have some respect.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

gypsygirl said:


> so what though ? if people like it and want to do it and it works for them why do you care so much ?


gypsy, I didn't go after Parelli much less after the people who do his program. My comments were just responses to what other people said. 

However if you read through first couple pages some comments there definitely provoked the whole debate in this thread. One thing is to say that program is worked for you and your horse (and I think it's great if program (any) works wonderfully for someone and nothing to laugh about or pick on there), another thing (as already was pointed out) is to say Parelli is the best way to go (no cruelty, eta-eta-eta...) as it started on (already) 1st page.

_*With that being said I want to ask everyone to stay on topic of the thread, please!*_


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

I feel that one of the problems that "older" folks like myself have is that we remember the way it was before Pat "BP" and see what has happened to the market "AP".

I now have folks show up to look at a horse and they don't bring a saddle or other tack...No, they bring a big ball and show up in their flip flops.
They talk about bonding and the friendly game.
When I do get them up on the horse they fall off.

Different world.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I thought this post was about people who do parelli not about people who hate it =/


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Marecare said:


> I feel that one of the problems that "older" folks like myself have is that we remember the way it was before Pat "BP" and see what has happened to the market "AP".
> 
> I now have folks show up to look at a horse and they don't bring a saddle or other tack...No, they bring a big ball and show up in their flip flops.
> They talk about bonding and the friendly game.
> ...


 that has nothing to do with ruining a thread that is supposed to be positive.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

SissyGoBob said:


> And your not making much scence....at all. CA did not teach me this, but "roundpenning" is the greatest tool to teach a horse I have a 2 year old that you follow me to through fire because of "roundpenning"


you don't need a roundpen to do roundpenning. in fact, as i've mentioned elsewhere in this forum, i've done it in wilderness with wild animals successfully. it's approach/retreat, as long as you know when to approach, and when to retreat, it's easy, in any situation (roundpen or not), it's just that in a roundpen you can exaggerate it more as a bit of a shortcut, because the animal has no means of escape.

exactly which part of my post doesn't make sense, i will happily rephrase it.


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## SkippersPointPerformance (Feb 8, 2011)

_Whether or not people like or dislike Parelli, I think "green" or "novice" riders need to know the opinions others have about him that may not be all rainbows and gum drops. I personally think his training methods are a joke and are way over publicized. I also believe that they are dangerous to those that aren't very experienced with horses. I have seen way too many ruined horses and way too many injured riders trying to do the Parelli Method. Just my plain and simple opinion, as we are all allowed our own appropriately.  If the OP likes Parelli then he/she can take all these opinions into consideration and arrive at a sound decision, but they have the right to know what everyone believes_


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## heartscontent (Jan 11, 2009)

SkippersPointPerformance said:


> _Whether or not people like or dislike Parelli, I think "green" or "novice" riders need to know the opinions others have about him that may not be all rainbows and gum drops. I personally think his training methods are a joke and are way over publicized. I also believe that they are dangerous to those that aren't very experienced with horses. I have seen way too many ruined horses and way too many injured riders trying to do the Parelli Method. Just my plain and simple opinion, as we are all allowed our own appropriately.  If the OP likes Parelli then he/she can take all these opinions into consideration and arrive at a sound decision, but they have the right to know what everyone believes_


I think beginners should be taking hands on lessons instead of watching dvd's. I am for parelli, not anti but I do not recommend Parelli for first time horse owners, timid folks, or novices. They are not at the point yet where they know when to approach, retreat, and don't understand horse herd or body language. And a dvd isn't going to solve all their groundwork problems. I saw hire a trainer if your a novice.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

heartscontent said:


> I think beginners should be taking hands on lessons instead of watching dvd's. I am for parelli, not anti but I do not recommend Parelli for first time horse owners, timid folks, or novices. They are not at the point yet where they know when to approach, retreat, and don't understand horse herd or body language. And a dvd isn't going to solve all their groundwork problems. I saw hire a trainer if your a novice.


And I think that is precisely why so many Parelli threads get response from those who are not Parelli fans. The program tends to get market to new and timid riders offering the hopes of having a better bond with their horse through natural methods. It starts a slippery slope with beginner horsemen who do not have the instincts of how to read their horse and understand that they must be leader for their 'heard' before they be their horses best friend.


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## heartscontent (Jan 11, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> And I think that is precisely why so many Parelli threads get response from those who are not Parelli fans. The program tends to get market to new and timid riders offering the hopes of having a better bond with their horse through natural methods. It starts a slippery slope with beginner horsemen who do not have the instincts of how to read their horse and understand that they must be leader for their 'heard' before they be their horses best friend.


Yes, in some ways I wish Parelli would state that you need to have certain acquired horse hands on skills before starting his program. You can't learn to do things from scartch from a dvd. The problem is people don't know "why" they asking their horse to do this and that. I think Parelli assumes people naturally have horse sense. He's been around horses his whole life and probably forgets how many city folks there are now who do recreational horse stuff on the side.

However, for intermediate-experienced horse people who know how a horse herd operates and already know how to ride and handle their horse, the Parelli program isn't harmful. An experienced person would not let their horse be ruined by Parelli methods and an experienced person may tweak the program to suit each individual horse. I do Parelli with horses but I combine it with regular horsemanship. So the horses know both(Parelli and regular horsemanship)

So I approve of the method but I don't recommend it for everyone.


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## horseloverd2 (Jan 23, 2009)

I like Parelli enough, but there is no way I'm going to pay big bucks watching his videos or go to his clinics. I don't follow his training ritual consistently. I printed out the Horsenality charts (these are great - I recommend it to anyone, whether you like Parelli or not) because it really gets you knowing who your horse really is. The people who have owned my horse before said she was a stubborn mule who needed an attitude adjustment. I thought she was more of a timid and misunderstood horse who needed a lot of patience, and the chart confirmed she was a right brained introvert. If nothing else, they're fun to fill out. 

But really, I think people need to learn that there are no right and wrong trainers. They need to learn from all the trainers since they all have something to contribute, instead of following one religiously.


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

christopher said:


> you don't need a roundpen to do roundpenning. in fact, as i've mentioned elsewhere in this forum, i've done it in wilderness with wild animals successfully. it's approach/retreat, as long as you know when to approach, and when to retreat, it's easy, in any situation (roundpen or not), it's just that in a roundpen you can exaggerate it more as a bit of a shortcut, because the animal has no means of escape.
> 
> exactly which part of my post doesn't make sense, i will happily rephrase it.


 
So give me your definition of "roundpenning" please? Because if Im not mistakin' "roundpenning" is doing work in the round pen. Doing approach and retreat "in the wilderness" is called "approach and retreat in the wilderness" lol 

Go back and read your post. Not a lot of it made sence.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I agree totally. Christopher,your post is really confusing. To me, roundpenning means in a round pen. There is a variety of stuff you can do. In NO way, would I call working in the wilderness or anywhere else "roundpenning". It may be lunging (if it is on a line), free schooling (liberty type stuff if in an arena) or just plain ground work. I also am not getting how roundpenning is approach and retreat. With my guys, I stand there, point and they go. Cluck for trot, kiss for canter. Stop on cue. Not approach and retreat. I only use that when I am doing obstacle training, or getting one over a trailer issue, for example.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SissyGoBob (Oct 17, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> I agree totally. Christopher,your post is really confusing. To me, roundpenning means in a round pen. There is a variety of stuff you can do. In NO way, would I call working in the wilderness or anywhere else "roundpenning". It may be lunging (if it is on a line), free schooling (liberty type stuff if in an arena) or just plain ground work. I also am not getting how roundpenning is approach and retreat. With my guys, I stand there, point and they go. Cluck for trot, kiss for canter. Stop on cue. Not approach and retreat. I only use that when I am doing obstacle training, or getting one over a trailer issue, for example.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
glad im not the only one confused lol


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

I think Parelli is wonderful, but I don't buy the videos and such. I just purchase the halter, leadrope, and whip-type thing. It's really not needed, it was just because I didn't want to make some hand-made ones. I have a trainer in my area who teaches the Parelli Natural Horsemanship, and she's much better to have rather than watching a bunch of videos. It's nice, because there are many horses that are proof that she knows what she's doing.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

ButtInTheDirt said:


> I think Parelli is wonderful, but I don't buy the videos and such. I just purchase the halter, leadrope, and whip-type thing. It's really not needed, it was just because I didn't want to make some hand-made ones. I have a trainer in my area who teaches the Parelli Natural Horsemanship, and she's much better to have rather than watching a bunch of videos. It's nice, because there are many horses that are proof that she knows what she's doing.



This is how Parelli should be used. Take what works and get a good trainer who can use parts of it in an appropriate way and help you along with one on one feed back. If more people worked like this with a good trainer there would be less problem horses out there and a lot less people getting injured.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

ButtInTheDirt said:


> I think Parelli is wonderful, but I don't buy the videos and such. I just purchase the halter, leadrope, and whip-type thing. It's really not needed, it was just because I didn't want to make some hand-made ones. I have a trainer in my area who teaches the Parelli Natural Horsemanship, and she's much better to have rather than watching a bunch of videos. It's nice, because there are many horses that are proof that she knows what she's doing.


Agree-trainer on the ground is far better than trainer on the screen. I also have a "Parelli" trainer and board at a "Parelli" barn. However, my trainer was good before PP and continues to be after PP. The certifications have added some tools to his "toolbox", but have really added the clients to his list. That is the REAL reason otherwise good trainers get certified, IMO. I will almost guarantee that if your PP trainer is good, that is also the case with her. She probably could have trained those horses without putting a PP name by hers.:wink: Name recognition for the masses. Plain and simple. It is a marketing tool.


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

right guys your all going on about parelli being rubbish and tbh i havent tried any of it so i cant comment but the person who started this thread started it to talk ABOUT parelli.

yes, people are allowed to give opinions and negative ones but they need to back them up and it doesnt need to start into a debate.

EVERY single parelli thread iv read has ended in an argument. and as for the fact that the older members were around 'before' parelli that may be true but its the 'older' members that start to act childish and cause these debates(arguments).... 

i for one would like to know more about parelli,ca etc because in the UK its mostly about monty roberts and i like the idea of natural horsemanship. I dont want to read a thread about arguments, just info please!!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Actually, Sarah, I believe this thread was pretty much dead...until you posted. Perhaps you should look at the thread that NRHAreiner started that is a positive thread. It was started as a request from this thread. I do believe that most here who have given their opinions HAVE backed them up, but that is just me, and I am "old", and wouldn't want to appear "childish". ;-)


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

I think you are childish in the way you reply... My post wasnt rude or meant to offend anyone I just dont understand why they always turn into arguments but the girl that posted just wanted info about NH which is what this forums for and so do i... I dont want to have to read through millions of posts of people arguing with each other. Il have a look at the other thread and iv made my own so maybe I can find out what I want to find out..

Maybe you'd be kind enough to post your 'opinions' into my thread


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

SarahRicoh said:


> EVERY single parelli thread iv read has ended in an argument.


I gonna be devil advocate here, Sarah... :wink: Please, look at these threads as an example:

http://www.horseforum.com/natural-horsemanship/parelli-progress-thread-56942/

http://www.horseforum.com/natural-horsemanship/new-parelli-levels-74243/

People usually don't jump in and critique till someone posts something really provocative and here we go the debates started. Which happened with this thread as well....


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Im not sayin that debates arent provoked but im just saying it always ends in the threads going off track. Im trying to find more info on NH methods and I just cant on this forum and it annoys me because that is what the forum is for to help people....

Its not just Parelli im interested in either but thanks


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> People usually don't jump in and critique till someone posts something really provocative and here we go the debates started. Which happened with this thread as well....


That is actually not true. There were two posts and then all of sudden people started posting some nasty stuff to which I responded. Then I complained to the admin and he removed the nasty posts and left my posts. Which probably make my posts seem provocative but they are out of context. Up until now every Parelli post gets highjacked and hammered.


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## Clair (Jun 7, 2010)

> Looking for people who are into Parelli.
> 
> If you do parelli let us know what level your working on, about your horse, what got you into parelli etc. have you been to any parelli clinics? And anything else you what to share.I want this thread to NOT be a parelli bashing thread if your not into it don't comment. :lol: If you are i'd like to hear from you and im sure others would to.
> 
> ...


Hi!
My name's Clair, I'm 18, and I've been into 'natural' horsemanship for 5 years. I have one horse, my first horse, Kelty, who is 6 years old with a history of abuse. I've had him for just over 1 year and we have come so far! Kelty was fearful, panicky, and dominant when I bought him. Now his true colors have come out: serious, driven, bold, and respectful. He is a joy to work with and I love him very much.

I got into Parelli because the barn where I learned natural is very radical. They ride and train bareback and with just halters, no bits. The barn manager trained with Monty Roberts, Parelli, etc., decided to make up her own version and there ya have it.

I did the thing you aren't supposed to do: I bought a green abused young horse to train myself. Actually... It worked out great! When I bought him, you couldn't even put fly spray on him. Now, we have the most PHENOMENAL ground skills ever, I can spray his face, and play with a giant ball. I feel confident in him, and he loves our "play" sessions. We're working hard on his lope and are starting reining training with my one star Parelli instructor! She is great and very knowledgeable.

I bought an old Parelli book on Amazon for $8 and wow... I love it! It is everything I have been looking for!

We do lateral flexion, longe on hills, and it gets MY mind in the right place to ride as a true leader. I am truly a fan of the principles of Parelli.
I adapted the carrot stick into a simple longeline... that is all I use. And a regular halter instead of a rope one.

I am going to a Parelli clinic next month! Has you been to one?? How was is it? I'm really excited about it.

Tell me the kind of Parelli excercises you use a lot!


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Hi Clair, 

Who's doing the clinic that you're going to? I do all the games but I mix it up with location and distance. I try to make it fun so neither of us gets bored. One of my favorite things is to ride one horse and play circling with another one online. I always get such a huge laugh when they look at me and then they look at the horse I'm on and then they do it. 

cheers


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## Clair (Jun 7, 2010)

I believe her name is Jennifer. I don't know the last name, but she's a five star who's the cousin of my 3 star trainer who's helping me now. We're in the South Texas area, if that helps 

Wow that sounds awesome! Haha Kelty would love that- he loves moving other horses around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I think it is a scam. Parelli's merchandise is way too expensive when there is no need for it. His "carrot stick", I saw one at my local feed store for $11.... not $64. And anyone can buy a way cheaper rope halter or even make their own.

His methods are nothing new... people have been using them for centuries. Not that I have anything against him but it is all too expensive for the average horse lover.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

dont forget...this is a FOR parelli thread...


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Ray, while I agree about the carrot stick (as I had a chance to compare "professional" vs cheap one from the Expo and couldn't find any difference) there is a discussion going on in "Parelli-positive" thread about Parelli halters you may want to look into. Even non-Parelli people admit they are very nice! I've never seen one, but would be very curious to see for myself. 

And I agree with gypsygirl we had quite enough of heat-up discussion in this thread already and don't need any more.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I'm not sure if anyone Parelli is still posting here, but as a question if they are, did you guys find the DVD's easy or difficult to follow? I had a heck of a time, my Paint filly will NOT do "hide the hinny" as my Parelli friend calls it. She can do most of Level One and even she couldn't get her to do it.

Did you work solely with the assistance of the DVD's or did you employ outside help? I enjoyed the groundwork side of it, I love learning new things and I think I may contact a Parelli instructor for a couple of lessons. I don't think I'll be an avid Parelli follower, but I enjoy adding tools to my arsenal kit of horse training!


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I'm not sure if anyone Parelli is still posting here, but as a question if they are, did you guys find the DVD's easy or difficult to follow? I had a heck of a time, my Paint filly will NOT do "hide the hinny" as my Parelli friend calls it. She can do most of Level One and even she couldn't get her to do it.
> 
> Did you work solely with the assistance of the DVD's or did you employ outside help? I enjoyed the groundwork side of it, I love learning new things and I think I may contact a Parelli instructor for a couple of lessons. I don't think I'll be an avid Parelli follower, but I enjoy adding tools to my arsenal kit of horse training!


they're easy to follow.

the catch is you have to modify it yourself to fit your horse, otherwise you'll be doing what parelli "wackos" do (follow a step by step program that hasn't been adapted for the individual), which creates dull and pushy horses who hate the sight of their owners.

when i was new i employed a few people to help, but they were mostly parelli "wackos" so they really didn't teach me anything new and just repeated exactly what pat said in the DVDs.

but if you have a good mind you'll be able to pick out the important stuff and modify it to suit your own training, which is never a bad thing.

the concepts pat teaches are sound, but the methods of achieving them he teaches are debatable, much like all horse trainers, the best horsemen/women use all sorts of different methods for the individual horse, based on the same sound principles.

and also, never listen to linda, she's pretty insane.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i have never actually watched the videos [too expensive and i dont know anyone who lives around me that has them] but what problems are you having ? where do you get stuck ?


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## brookelovesparelli (Jan 21, 2009)

Im still here  I just never posted after because I don't need parelli bashers on the horse forum bringing me down. I love my life, and I love how well things are going with my horse and I wanted 'for' Parelli people to be able to share that.

Ahh well. I just would like to say thankyou to the people who are 'for' parelli and posted, keep having fun and learning with your horse.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

check out the parelli positive thread !!


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## brookelovesparelli (Jan 21, 2009)

I just did  hehe it's very good. And about time.


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## nobody2121 (Sep 6, 2010)

brookelovesparelli said:


> Im still here  I just never posted after because I don't need parelli bashers on the horse forum bringing me down. I love my life, and I love how well things are going with my horse and I wanted 'for' Parelli people to be able to share that.
> 
> Ahh well. I just would like to say thankyou to the people who are 'for' parelli and posted, keep having fun and learning with your horse.



Way to go! Sounds like you are doing a great job with your hore! All the best!


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## brookelovesparelli (Jan 21, 2009)

Thank you very much


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## Clair (Jun 7, 2010)

I don't get it! Why is capitalism so despised when it comes to Parelli? He has a good product, good advertising, a worldwide following, and therefore, people are willing to pay a lot for his products. Its just like anything... Oreos vs. Generic oreos. What tastes better? Thusly, what is more expensive? Hmmm...

well I am content to continue this thread as it was originally intended to be used. I like parelli. I find it is unique, open minded, gentle, and logical. 

My reining trainer was Arab national champion alternate for western pleasure... She is also working on her 2 star parelli certification and she is AWESOME. Never have I had more fun with my horse. 

I also bought a Parelli book on Amazon for $8, and it was just what I wanted... Great ideas and very inspiring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartscontent (Jan 11, 2009)

Ok following the Parelli program can be cheap. At least up to level 3. I myself am at level 3. I could move on to level 4 but my horse won't be ready for a while. However, I could technically watch it and understand it but I have no need for level 4 at this moment.

So if anyone is interested in doing level 1-3 I suggest you use any rope halter if you can't afford a Parelli one, a 22 ft rope(you can buy similar length at tack shop), and a stick (you can buy a cheaper one if needed). However if you can afford his product, it's well made and lasts a long time.

Now once you have all the equipment you can join the savvy club for just $10 a month. I found it helpful. You may just want to join the club and not buy the dvd's. 
You can borrow the dvd's. So if you borrow the dvd's and join the club that's only $120 a year for doing Parelli.

Now they do have some additional dvd's that you may want to purchase at some point but you don't have to have them to go through the levels. 

That's all you need! Other stuff like obstacles you can make yourself. I find Parelli affordable.

*If you get stuck at some level you can get a Parelli instructor out a couple of times. I heard they are very helpful.


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## LoveMyToby (Mar 7, 2011)

Approach and retreat is all about reading your horse. If you are playing the friendly game and your horse is backing away from the savvy string, then you should allow your horse to relax and become confident in you again by retreating. Walk away while rythmically hitting the ground with your savvy string. Then, as your horse begins to relax again, reapproach him with the carrot stick and work your way back to throwing the string rythmically onto all zone but his delicate zone. You can go back to this at anytime that you feel your horse is getting nervous or lacking confidence.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

LoveMyToby said:


> Approach and retreat is all about reading your horse. If you are playing the friendly game and your horse is backing away from the savvy string, then you should allow your horse to relax and become confident in you again by retreating. Walk away while rythmically hitting the ground with your savvy string. Then, as your horse begins to relax again, reapproach him with the carrot stick and work your way back to throwing the string rythmically onto all zone but his delicate zone. You can go back to this at anytime that you feel your horse is getting nervous or lacking confidence.


if your playing the 'friendly game' with your savvy string, and your horse is backing away, and because of that you ease off so as not to "scare" him, then you've taught him that the savvy string means backup, not standstill. 

which is a 'driving game' not a 'friendly game'


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

christopher said:


> if your playing the 'friendly game' with your savvy string, and your horse is backing away, and because of that you ease off so as not to "scare" him, then you've taught him that the savvy string means backup, not standstill.
> 
> which is a 'driving game' not a 'friendly game'



I still do not see the need for a string of any kind to teach this to a horse. All mine learn this a weanlings.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

its the same as the string part of your average lunge whip.

either way, as you mentioned it's unnecessary.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

you can do parelli with out the string, i do.  what tools someone uses is not all that important really, its the method. just because your horses know this as weanlings, doesnt mean everyones horse does. i got mine at 3 knowing nothing.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

If a human finds a string to be useful then go for it. I've seen the "traditional people" do all sorts of weird things like tying heads down, tying heads sideways, draw reins, etc. What about spurs. I have never "needed" them why do people use them. I can do all the movements including canter pirouette without them and then there's the bit ... I could go on


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

mostly tradition i assume TLO.

bits dont do much. i've seen horses run through the harshest of bits and i'm sure we've both seen horses do sufficiently in a halter or bitless alternative.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

You are right Christopher. I am not one for tradition  I love just using the rope halter because it is easy and all I need to have is two sizes for my whole gang. I also love synthetic saddles for the same reason - easy to clean and very comfortable (western) right away.


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

No. I have lost count of the amount of Parelli arguments I have had, none end well, and more and more people are taking a step back from his 'methods and 'ideas' after plenty of recent videos depicting himself and his wife doing nothing more than abusing, scaring, and ruining a variety of horses. Of course the minute these videos are brought to the public eye Parelli and his minions go around and make sure every trace of this is removed from the internet, we all remember the 'Catwalk' video, and recently I complained on a Linda video where she was busy yanking a shy arabs head off for about 30 minutes trying to 'teach him a lesson' I have yet to know what lesson that is.

Pat seems to think that 'Natural horsemanship' was invented by him and that unless you spend a fortune 'little people' in the world do not have a hope in hell of ever getting 'undertsanding' from their horses, which is of course toffee. I do not and will not ever use his methods, games, to gain results, nor will I poke a horse into submission. My mare can perform a variety of tricks including spanish walk lie down etc, be ridden bareback, bridless and jumped in the same manner, a carrot stick did not create this bond, friendship, fun, handling, time, and effort created this.

I am well aware I will probably get plenty of stick from writing this. But I have a right as much as anyone else to state my opinion


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## Clair (Jun 7, 2010)

Anyways... Gooooo Parelli! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

FancyTrot said:


> My mare can perform a variety of tricks including spanish walk lie down etc, be ridden bareback, bridless and jumped in the same manner, a carrot stick did not create this bond, friendship, fun, handling, time, and effort created this.


I completely agree with this.


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

If every single Parelli thread goes south, maybe the Parelli-ites should explore the reasons? I'm not being snarky, I'm being sincere. On every horse forum I've ever been on, the only thread guaranteed to take a turn for the worse is a thread about Parelli. If he didn't market himself as the be-all end-all, and if he actually acknowledged that there are other effective ways to get the same results, and if he acknowledged that all horses are different... then maybe the "haters" wouldn't hate so much? It's his marketing methods and his know-it-all attitude that turns experienced horse people off of him. JMO!


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

goldilockz said:


> If every single Parelli thread goes south, maybe the Parelli-ites should explore the reasons? I'm not being snarky, I'm being sincere. On every horse forum I've ever been on, the only thread guaranteed to take a turn for the worse is a thread about Parelli. If he didn't market himself as the be-all end-all, and if he actually acknowledged that there are other effective ways to get the same results, and if he acknowledged that all horses are different... then maybe the "haters" wouldn't hate so much? It's his marketing methods and his know-it-all attitude that turns experienced horse people off of him. JMO!


Totally agree. It's not only that though. He advertises himself as a man with experience, talent etc etc, where as everything I have ever seen of him screams the opposite, his approach is anything but natural, he contradicts himself 'No pressure needed' and 'Take the time so it takes less time' then when his shows dont go how he would like he resorts to tying horses down and forcing them to give into pressure. There are 15 year old girls on youtube who have a deeper understanding of what it is to have a true bond with your horse, and none of them study parelli, they use common sense, and spend time with their horses. As time goes on im more and more disgusted with the photographs, videos etc that keep cropping up, one was of a foal (Very much doubt if it was even weaned) being guided by use of ropes etc over a log. Why.

I even watched one of his 'demonstrations' and saw nothing but a bunch of bored, brain dead horses who resembled zombies. Completely and utterly turned into ghosts of their former selves due to continual prodding, poking, submission games. When I play at liberty I like to see my horse full of spark, I want fire, playfulness passion. The exact opposite of the drones turned out by parelli, on ropes 'playing' sadly with a giant ball. That is not playing, that is doing as they are told to do, or they fear a rope, or carrot stick may once again be implemented. Turn a horse out with a ball, THAT is playing.

Im afraid, with all parelli discussions, they usually start leaning towards the dislike, and then they get removed as many of the parelli followers do not like people questioning them, they are usually blinded and think that they are the only ones with a deep relationship. Mine is built on equality, time, trust and fun, theirs is built on submission and repetition. I know what way I choose...


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## nworkman82 (Jun 18, 2009)

Aww. I thought you guys finally had it!! I neither pro nor con. "different stroke for different folks." But I was reading this thread and was happy to see you finally get to chat with each other. I was recently given the first level of the DVD series. Haven't had a chance to watch so I've formed no opinions... So when I saw the parelli thread I clicked it. So sad. Maybe next time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clair (Jun 7, 2010)

I like Parelli. I've never had bad experiences with techniques and never run into anything violent or cruel or negative in the way of training. I know of many horses that love the games and many who were literally saved by the program. 

I am not even a savvy club member. I bought several books and watch parelli online or on TV whenever I can. My trainer is going to parelli school in the fall and she is amazing.
The concepts are refreshing and I enjoy Pats works. I will root for Parelli.

It gets a lot of hate not because its bad, but because with extreme popularity comes extreme love. And extreme hate. 

I am neither extreme. I LIKE Parelli, and I've never met anyone in person who has tried the program or ideas and hates it.

Y'all go check out a user named Indy or indyhorse from France and then say Parelli is a load of poop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Clair said:


> and I've never met anyone in person who has tried the program or ideas and hates it.


I've used it. I tried it out for quite a while. And the more I learned the more I was turned off. And the more I used it, the less I liked what it did to my horses. I still say, like any other "program" there are good and bad things. Tidbits CAN be used in concert with other methods to get good results. They are not PP's tidbits though, he got them from somewhere else too, even though he'd never admit it. But as a stand alone, "this is the ONLY WAY TO DO IT" program, like so many of the rabid followers want to call it, I am far from impressed. And that's putting it nicely. Very nicely. I will say he has one heck of a marketing team.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

It is only the marketing and some bad videos that have really turned me off parelli.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

apachiedragon said:


> They are not PP's tidbits though, he got them from somewhere else too, even though he'd never admit it.


Do you know PP personally? I doubt it and I have to say that I have heard him give praise to many people from who he has learned. It is complete rubbish what your saying. 

OK you think PP is bad so then who do you like? Who do you learn from?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

TheLovedOne said:


> OK you think PP is bad so then who do you like? Who do you learn from?


Why do you (general you, not calling anyone name :wink: ) have to learn from _someone_ with the big name? Why can't one just use common sense? You do NOT have to be PP, CA, CC, etc. to be able to read horse's language. Plus there are plenty of trainers around (not NH), who could teach you everything you need to know and train/help training your horse. 

And just speaking of watching.... I did watch PP videos, I did watch CA videos, and I've been on demonstrations by PP level 3 instructors, CC, SW, Craig Cameron and some other big names. And I have to say the help from my local (not such a big name  ) trainer was WAY more helpful and informative.


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## Clair (Jun 7, 2010)

Like I said- in person. And I know, in real life, boatloads of Parelli diehards that wouldn't say its the only way to do things. That's a blanket statement. And he doesn't say he is the god of horses and created horse training. I dont understand where people get that from. I could quote you from his books how he talks about REdiscovering, not invention.

some people like it, some people dont. And that's normal. But anyone taking the stance that Parelli is absolutely useless and a scam or doesn't work is just wrong. There are too many people and horses that demonstrate otherwise to shout that. ESPECIALLY on a thread meant to be positive. If anyone wants to share extremist blanket statements like that, why can't they start their own thread? Heck give 'em their own sub forum. "Anti parelli hatefest"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm not saying that one has to learn from a big name. I'm asking AD who she does like and who she does learn from. 

I disagree with you about most local trainers. Most are very incompetent. Some are pretty good but having a DVD that you can watch over and over is an excellent resource. It helps people on many levels.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Clair said:


> Heck give 'em their own sub forum. "Anti parelli hatefest"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Too funny. All this hating... it is truly insane.


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## Clair (Jun 7, 2010)

And I can't just "use common sense". I need to have a foundation for the decisions I make. I am no professional trainer who has been training horse for 20 years. I like the DVDs the clinics the community! I watch CA Julie Goodnight, and many others. I also have a trainer. But I like every resource I can get my hands on to improve my knowledge and experience...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

I dont feel the need to follow any routine, training regime, or 'levelling' system I take what is useful and relevent from trainers, inspirational people whom I work with and people who offer guidance and results without making you pay through the nose for silly tools, and levels, and preach one thing but practice something entirely different. 

Please remember you dont have to follow people to make sure you are doing it right. Horses havn't 'read the book' they do not know if you have the 7 games down to a tee, and do not care if you can swing a rope above your head without them spooking. Any horse has this capacity and it's called desensetization.

I follow a remarkable amount of people, I do not ask them questions or ask them how they acomplish their success, I watch, I learn, and I adapt. I do not like following written ways of handling things, I like to discover for myself and I find it to be more personal if I have trained a horse that is wonderful, rather than if my horse is wonderful because I followed a step by step guide.

I watch and learn from the likes of Hempfling, Kelly marks, Jean Francois pignon, nevzerov, Clemence Faivre etc etc All of which have something different to offer, but all of whom are relevent.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

The problem with common sense is that it is not a system or a program that can be taught or reproduced. Learning from people who have become famous is also no sin. The fact that they have become famous is probably related to how many people think they are good and so consequently maybe just maybe they are good and have something good to offer.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

FancyTrot said:


> I watch and learn from the likes of Hempfling, Kelly marks, Jean Francois pignon, nevzerov, Clemence Faivre etc etc All of which have something different to offer, but all of whom are relevent.


These people are all doing things very similar to PP and are also well known individuals trying to make money selling their knowledge. Who cares if they are relevant to you.


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

TheLovedOne said:


> The problem with common sense is that it is not a system or a program that can be taught or reproduced. Learning from people who have become famous is also no sin. The fact that they have become famous is probably related to how many people think they are good and so consequently maybe just maybe they are good and have something to good to offer.


There are plenty of people out there who have a lot to offer and can do incredible things, but no one or very few have heard of them...does this make them any less of a teacher, do they have less to offer? I know a 18 year old girl who does some incredible things with her horses, such like that the spanish riding school would be amazed at, completely tack free, not even a rope halter in sight, she has fans sure, but shes not famous. She has taught herself this, by spending time, watching, learning and trying out her methods to better herself as a horsewoman, and with outstanding success. 

I do not think his rise to 'fame' is all due to the positives to be honest. Many people have learnt of his existence purely through the videos of him and his wife doing the complete opposite of natural horsemanship. 

He has so many fans because he knows how to tug on the heartstrings of unsuspecting people who genuinely wanted a deeper relationship with their horses, and consequently jumped on the band wagon thinking parelli was the ONLY way foward, as NH has always been a pretty shaded area not many people knew how to go about it. He learned quickly that he could make a lot of money out of this and has pushed himself in the publics face ever since, and of course his followers will also push and preach. 

I do not think he is an idol, or someone anyone should be looking up to. He may well have started up as someone with horses in mind, but he has changed into a money hungry scam artist.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

TheLovedOne said:


> Some are pretty good but having a DVD that you can watch over and over is an excellent resource. It helps people on many levels.


Resource for what? DVD will NOT teach you how to ride, or deal with rearing horse, or sit the buck. And approach to every horse is very individual because they are all different. It's impossible to use "one size fits it all". 

I agree that lots of "trainers" just claim themselves as one. But in my area we have quite a bit VERY competent trainers knowing what they are doing. :wink:


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

And just a reminder... _*Folks, please do NOT go personal towards each other!

*_As for marketing... Well... I do think prices on stuff for almost all big name trainers are pretty ridiculous. JMHO. You don't have to be jealous to say that.


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> And just a reminder... _*Folks, please do NOT go personal towards each other! *_
> 
> As for marketing... Well... I do think prices on stuff for almost all big name trainers are pretty ridiculous. JMHO. You don't have to be jealous to say that.


Agreed . I bought my rope halter on ebay for about £7 exactly the same material, number of knots, concept...but a lot cheaper 
Where as the 'training sites' etc were charging at least triple that.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> Resource for what? DVD will NOT teach you how to ride, or deal with rearing horse, or sit the buck. And approach to every horse is very individual because they are all different. It's impossible to use "one size fits it all".
> 
> I agree that lots of "trainers" just claim themselves as one. But in my area we have quite a bit VERY competent trainers knowing what they are doing. :wink:


Well if I have to explain to you why a DVD or a book is a good resource then I think there is no point in continuing this discussion. 

Most trainers are incompetent.


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## SAsamone (Nov 5, 2009)

I never did understand "name brand tack."

As for parelli, I'm all for riding a horse with as little imposed on them as possible. I only really wear tack when I feel like looking good like for a show, or if I'm going on a really long trail ride- I feel a saddle distributes weight more properly across the back, and use boots/polos to add support and protection. 

Actually, since parelli is "natural" I'll throw this idea out there: I kind of think that riding horses, as much as I love it, is a little cruel. I mean really, who wants metal stuck in there mouth, with a hunk of weight on your back telling you what to do, when you could just be out grazing with your buddies? I understand this view is VERY extreme, and don't get me wrong, I ride and LOVE to do so- and I also realize that horses are used to it, and sometimes enjoy it, and the attention from their owners. But, I will admit, I do feel guilty sometimes. I know, I'm weird lol.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

FancyTrot said:


> I dont feel the need to follow any routine, training regime, or 'levelling' system I take what is useful and relevent from trainers, inspirational people whom I work with and people who offer guidance and results without making you pay through the nose for silly tools, and levels, and preach one thing but practice something entirely different.


I was just curious about your level of education and did not mean to imply anything.

For most people in this world an organized structured approach to learning is linked to learning outcomes. That is why we have schools to teach people to read, write and do math. Learning to teach a horse or ride a horse is no different. 

So far all I can conclude from what you are saying is that you are angry with PP because he has been successful. This is not very compelling.


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

SAsamone said:


> I never did understand "name brand tack."
> 
> As for parelli, I'm all for riding a horse with as little imposed on them as possible. I only really wear tack when I feel like looking good like for a show, or if I'm going on a really long trail ride- I feel a saddle distributes weight more properly across the back, and use boots/polos to add support and protection.
> 
> Actually, since parelli is "natural" I'll throw this idea out there: I kind of think that riding horses, as much as I love it, is a little cruel. I mean really, who wants metal stuck in there mouth, with a hunk of weight on your back telling you what to do, when you could just be out grazing with your buddies? I understand this view is VERY extreme, and don't get me wrong, I ride and LOVE to do so- and I also realize that horses are used to it, and sometimes enjoy it, and the attention from their owners. But, I will admit, I do feel guilty sometimes. I know, I'm weird lol.


Not weird at all. To be honest TRUE natural horsemanship from the horses perspective would to not be ridden at all and have no human contact, we are of course predators .
I use a bitless bridle and for showing a rubber snaffle to be as soft as I can, with difficult horses, i tend to go lighter, if they are hard to ride in a snaffle I go bitless.  Its nice you are a considerate owner


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

TheLovedOne said:


> I was just curious about your level of education and did not mean to imply anything.
> 
> For most people in this world an organized structured approach to learning is linked to learning outcomes. That is why we have schools to teach people to read, write and do math. Learning to teach a horse or ride a horse is no different.
> 
> So far all I can conclude from what you are saying is that you are angry with PP because he has been successful. This is not very compelling.


I have decided to ignore your comments for the rest of this thread. It is pretty much going in circles. I have explained where my dislike and opinions come from and all i get from you is 'Ah it's jealousy and anger' So I feel it is pointless to keep trying to debate with you.


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## SAsamone (Nov 5, 2009)

Aww thanks  ^^ I guess, I just think, if you are going to own them and use them to ride, you should be sensitive to how their feeling- in my opinion, it makes the relationship stronger and they are more willing to do things for you if it is received in return. That's the only reason I stopped riding my 24 year old. Everyone told me "oh, she's not old" but I could tell SHE didn't want to ride. I go out every once in a while on her, but for the most part, she's just my pasture pretty.


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

SAsamone said:


> Aww thanks  ^^ I guess, I just think, if you are going to own them and use them to ride, you should be sensitive to how their feeling- in my opinion, it makes the relationship stronger and they are more willing to do things for you if it is received in return. That's the only reason I stopped riding my 24 year old. Everyone told me "oh, she's not old" but I could tell SHE didn't want to ride. I go out every once in a while on her, but for the most part, she's just my pasture pretty.


Definately, I always think how i feel in a job, if my boss is fun, friendly, listens to my needs and rewards me for doing well I want to work for him.

If he pushes me to hard, tells me im useless, gets angry, screams, shouts. I resist working for him!

Navara is 7 but I retired her. She was born with a deformed hind leg, she is rideable but she struggles, and where she struggles she gets upset about it, even though she always tries very hard. I spent lots of money on the best chiropractic help etc and they all said she would be fine to ride, but my heart said no, and I think deep down she is relieved. 
Nothing wrong with lawn ornaments  She is good for my soul, a life teacher! 

Sometimes you have to listen to the horse, and if you have the faintest hint that they are unhappy or anything then you have to respect that  Navara doesnt mind me getting on her in the field and sitting brushing her mane, but if I get the tack out and put her in the school she becomes quite unhappy due to the fact she finds it quite hard.
Well done for listening to your girl!


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## FancyTrot (Apr 1, 2011)

My training etc is not inspiring. Navara is inspiring. She has changed dramatically, overcome a number of physical and mental barriers etc
And for a horse that was destined to be dog food, and would not even lead without rearing up, I think she deserves to be called inspiring at the very least.
Keep your negativity to yourself or at least restrict it to this forum.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

LOL Mcdonalds kinda does kill you... BUT not the point!

LOTS of people have strong opinions on different trainers. This forum, most people don't like him. But most of it can be said for any famous trainer, their stuff IS expensive! I LOVE CA, but I am NOT paying $400-$500 for DVDs. Nor will I buy a lunge whip that the only difference from a normal one is that HIS has his name on it....

I also I know of someone who really disliked Monty Roberts (Whom I ABOSOLUTLY LOVE) But I had to respect his opinion and not say rude things like you were saying.

And in one of your posts you said ...."Most trainers are incompetent." Which isn't true or they wouldn't be making any money.

There are TONS of AMAZING trainers out there that aren't famous because they don't want to be. I have an amazing trainer/ riding instructor. Just because she isn't famous, doesn't mean she is incompetent.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm hanging on the edge of my seat ... what did I say in one of my posts?


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Sorry I wanted to copy your post instead of trying to remembering (and possibly not getting it right) what you said.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

What I have seen so far and for the most part is that people have these really emotional opinions that are not based on reality or truth. I think it is great for people to have opinions and sometimes I too learn from other people's point of view. I love that. What I really dislike is hidden agendas and hate propaganda because it is counterproductive and regressive. It is not good for anyone.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree, but people ARE giving reasons as to why they don't like Parelli. They are not saying "I HATE PP" And someone asks why? and their response is "Because!!" But with no reasoning. I really hate it when people can't back up there arguments.

But Parelli die hards need to realize that it is okay for people to pick apart or say something rude about your favoright trainer. People jump down peoples throats WAY too much, and it is EVERYONE, not just you.

I remember when they had the road to the horse and CC won. CC and PP went out to dinner but CA didn't. I guess people could of said he was a sore losser and didn't want to go, but maybe he had a reason for not going?

No comment on your quote?


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

Well Ray I guess I'm going to have to disagree with you for the most part. I think that a reason like his DVDs, tack etc are too expensive is no reason to bash someone. Or reasons like "I do not need to follow any structure" or "I don't like the way he smells".... on and on like that is not a valid argument. If I say I don't like CA I really couldn't give you concrete reasons because I haven't studied his program. I can say I was not impressed with his performance at RTTH or his lack of sportsmanship but that is all I can say. 

Every time I ask well then who do you like the answers are always other people who do pretty much the same thing. So how does that make sense. I'll tell you it doesn't. I just wish people would stop all this nonsensical hate mongering. PP is not perfect but then again I have not met a single human being that is.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

TheLovedOne said:


> Most trainers are incompetent.


Wow! That's a VERY strong statement to make should I say! 

DVDs and books do have their place, but I still stand my opinion that DVD will not teach a beginner to ride. Same pretty much true for dealing with issues.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

They like their trainers for the same reason that you like PP.

Could you elaborate on CA and him not being sportman like? (I didn't get to see RTTH)

I agree completely Kitten!


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I didn't understand what you where talking about ... now I see - my quote.

I think that if I listed every local trainer in my community the majority of them are sadly incompetent. Do we have some good ones - yes. Are the good ones all famous - no. I don't think that you have to be famous to be good but I do think that you need to have learned your trade from someone that is good. 

For the most part trainers run about without having any formal training or apprenticeship. I think when we compare to other vocations or trades that we will find when there is no formalized training then the outcomes are usually not very good. Lets take roofing for example. In Canada there is no need to get any apprenticeship training to become a roofer. So when you hire someone it is truly buyer beware and there are so many people scamming other people it is horrific. So I will stick to my earlier comment that most people that claim to be trainers are incompetent. I'm truly sorry if this offends you but it is not only my opinion but also my observations.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, I did remove bunch of VERY personal comments in this thread again. And looks like discussion is just getting downhill. *So I think it's time to close the thread. *

OP (and others interested in PP methods), please feel free to post in Parelli-_*positive *_thread http://www.horseforum.com/natural-horsemanship/parelli-positive-thread-78647/ (or create a new one).


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