# Horse with really weird jumping form *PICTURES*



## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

His head will come down as he is halfway over the jump


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

As you can see, my position is thrown off due to this.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

that is odd! could you post a video?


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

Jumping with a "normal" headset


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

Tinyliny, I will try to post a video, but it may take a while since my iPad is extremely slow :lol: 

In the video you will see that I get flung onto his neck after landing.


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## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

Quite honestly it looks like he has bad jumping technique quite possibly due to his conformation. If the conformation of his shoulder is restricting he is going to find it difficult to jump easily and with proper technique. He is jumping with his knees pointing slightly down and looks like he is just flinging himself to make it over. He is probably maxed out at that height. 

It would certainly help to see videos as they can give a more accurate picture of what is going on. It could be a training or balking issue coming into the jump.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

such a position seems a bit scary, like he'll trip up upon landing. your position looks good!


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## Gossalyn (Sep 12, 2013)

so curious to the answer on this one! definitely a funky jump position.... and I could see how it could throw you off balance.

I still see the funkiness in the slightly smaller jump, though it's less pronounced.. 
He looks like a good boy who really tries for you...!! Curious to see how this resolves.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Maybe he has hit his jumping capability limit and is really having to push himself to jump this high- so he's 'throwing' himself over it?


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

Thanks all of you for answering and sharing opinions. 

I have tried to upload a video but it keeps coming up with error messages.

It goes without saying that I am a little disappointed and sad about the possibility of Luca being maxed out at this height, since he shows real interest and willingness to go higher, but if he really is maxed out at this height I will certainly not force him to go higher. Below I have attached a side shot of him that may shed some light on his conformation. 

Luca tends to over-jump because he has never been too great with striding and we are currently working on that. 

It has occurred to me that another possibility may be that he doesn't get enough run-up to sort his striding and speed out so he has to pop over the jump. In the video you can see him approach it at a fast trot, so maybe that is why he is throwing himself over. Might this be a possibility? I have some pictures in which we have approached jumps at a canter and his head has come up considerably.


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

> Maybe he has hit his jumping capability limit and is really having to push himself to jump this high- so he's 'throwing' himself over it?


I don't know about that...he's taking those jumps with about a foot to spare. The Qh I rode would take a jump super up close and then go straight up and over then Drop his head so he was peering over his knees- kinda like your guy. I'm not a jumper and it's not my area of expertise but what I did to manage was stay out of two point and let his jump toss me up (pretty standard) but as he was going over and 'stretching' I'd raise the small of my back which seemed to set me back far enough that I wouldn't fall on him.


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

Also here is a picture of an old-timey American Jumper champion 'snow man' who I think had a similar style. His rider would sometimes drop the reins entirely to give him his head...not that I reccomend that.


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

Another conformation shot in case the other one looks a bit odd. This one's from ariund 2 years ago but he pretty much looks the same now only with some improved muscle tone :lol:

I just went through some of my older pictures of him jumping and I came across one where I was doing some free-jumping with him over a little 45cm jump and he had the exact same odd form with his head down and nose out. He doesn't do that with that height anymore, at all. Could this maybe indicate something? 

So far the possibilities are:

1. Reached height capacity (due to conformation)
2. Not enough run-up and/or speed
3. He is still quite inexperienced at this height and this is why he is popping over them that way like he did with smaller jumps until he got used to them 

Any further information/opinions/advice would be awesome, you guys have been so helpful so far!


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

How much grid work have you done with him? It looks like he might need to learn to use himself better. Grids/Gymnastic work will help him with this. I would go back to small jumps set in a grid doing "bounce, one stride, bounce" Also doing more pole work to make him lift his back. 

Does he do this from trot and canter approaches?


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

NBEventer said:


> How much grid work have you done with him? It looks like he might need to learn to use himself better. Grids/Gymnastic work will help him with this. I would go back to small jumps set in a grid doing "bounce, one stride, bounce" Also doing more pole work to make him lift his back.
> 
> Does he do this from trot and canter approaches?


He has done some grid work a few months ago and he did quite well, and we have recently done bounces too, which he is very enthusiastic about. I will focus on those more to help him along with the bounce-one stride-bounce grid you mentioned. Thank you!  

As for the approach, he will usually do his weird jumping style at whatever pace he approaches, although it is less common when we approach at a canter. My neighbours have a jumping arena that they let me use any time and I have done some grid work there and he usually just puts his head down like that when he is doing a jump he is very excited/enthusiastic/unsure about. 

So that adds another two possibilities:

-he is not using himself properly, so he does bigger jumps weirdly.
-he gets very excited/enthusiastic/maybe a bit unsure? about this new height so he is popping over the jump like he usually does with new and/or interesting jumps 

^^ this is all added to the previous possibilities I mentioned before (confo, inexperienced over higher jumps, reached height capacity etc) 

Hmm....


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I train standardbreds as they come off the track, and have been training my own for eventing and jumpers. I know the struggle with controlling their pace.

It sounds like he hasn't learned to use his back properly. He needs lots and lots and lots of ground poles and raised ground poles at the trot to lift his back. Then set them for canter work.

Spirals, serpentines and lots of transitions. Setting the poles on circles like a fan and do spiral in and out of the fan at the trot over the poles. 

Once you feel him lifting his back and settling into a nice relaxed pace at the trot you can start adding a small x into your pattern work(not on a circle though). Set the trot poles going into the x to make him keep a relaxed pace and lifting his back going to the x.

As you feel him lifting himself through this add a bounce to it. Trot in(trot poles going into the bounce) and keep that same relaxed trot with the back lift into the bounce. 

Progress from there. I wouldn't worry about him doing height right now until he learns to use himself more. Standardbreds naturally want to be on their forehand and are really good at faking working from their hind end. So once you battle rocking him onto his haunches and lifting his back, you will be smooth sailing


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

NBEventer said:


> I train standardbreds as they come off the track, and have been training my own for eventing and jumpers. I know the struggle with controlling their pace.
> 
> It sounds like he hasn't learned to use his back properly. He needs lots and lots and lots of ground poles and raised ground poles at the trot to lift his back. Then set them for canter work.
> 
> ...


Oh, thank you so much for this. 

Looking back at how he tackles higher jumps, I can definitely see how not using his back properly can be the reason to why he is jumping like this. It all adds up. He was (free)jumping oddly at smaller heights a few years ago because back then he didn't have as much muscle tone and topline and was even worse with using his back to lift him up and away. Transitions and groundpoles will definitely help, along with gymnastic exercises.

Now that winter is coming, I can't use the paddock that I usually jump in due to the mud, so I'll mainly be riding on the roads and using the neighbours' jumping arena. I don't jump very high in the arena since Luca gets very excited there, so it will be a good idea to focus more about trot poles and calm back-lifting exercises as a winter-project. 

Let's see how this one turns out! He is a happy, enthusiastic jumper and I do have faith that one day he could make it easily over 1m jumps but before I even attempt that, I will do my utmost best to get him using his back properly. 

:lol: Yes, he's so sneaky when it comes to working from behind. He used to have a hideous ewe neck when I got him as an unbroken (to saddle, anyway) ex-pacer and it's taken a while to get him working from behind and on the bit but he's very eager to learn and is improving well.  

Thanks again for the advice!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Have you sent him down a jumping lane, to see if he does the same?

I knew a horse that did that with a rider on his back, but not down a jumping lane. Could his saddle be pinching?


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## piglet (Oct 2, 2012)

Nothing to add.
Just want to say good luck to both of you!
Keep us updated?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Nothing wrong with him! It is often seen in horses with a good bascule over a fence and I certainly do not think he is at his limit. 

I really like your position in the top picture, hands are really following through rather than a neck release and you are not ahead of the movement.

Oddly, horses that carry their heads low both on approach and landing, rarely fall. 

I would love to see how he jumps loose down a grid with a big fence at the end, I'd bet he has a really good bascule.


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

He's trying to balance with his neck, he's just doing it to a kind of extreme. He is feeling impressed by the higher height, and because he lacks tight form in his front legs and shoulder he feels the need to jump higher and rounder to avoid hitting the jump. The jump is getting to the hight where he isn't able to do a sort of big canter stride over it and so he's figuring out where he needs to be and how to jump something with some hight. Have you free jumped him? If you google images for horses free jumping you'll get a LOT of horses using their necks in an exaggerated way to balance themselves over impressive jumps. 

Likely the more you jump him, especially in combinations, grids, and courses where he he has to pull himself together right after the jump, the less exaggerated his neck and rounding will be.

As for your position, I think you're doing a really great job riding softly over the fence and just letting him figure out how he needs to jump it.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

I don't jump any more, but when I was growing up, we LOVED horses to use their necks like that!

The biggest problem I see is the dangling legs. He has to jump so much higher than a horse that tucks nicely.


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

*Thank you all for your input *

Yes, I have free jumped him extensively and he enjoys it a lot, however he does this odd jumping form with higher jumps, too, so I don't think there's a saddle issue or I'm hindering him in some way. I've only free-jumped him to 80cm and he does well but his head goes down just like it does when I'm riding him over that height. 

He does let his legs dangle a bit sometimes but I know from experience that he has the ability to snap them up nicely, which he often does in combinations (and when we get our striding wrong and he takes off too early :lol so maybe the gymnastic training and grids I'll be doing alongside of his pole work will help him with that. 

Concerning his jumping limit, he cleared the 90cm jump with air to spare. The jump was 5 stacked car tyres on one side and 4 tyres on the other side, so it was actually a little lower than it looks in the picture. I have faith that he can easily get up to 1m but I will not attempt this until I have done some more pole and grid work. 

Thank you for those compliments about my position! I've had a lot of frustration about it in the past and I'm so happy to know that it's finally begun to look and feel acceptable and effective  

As for what I will do now, I will set up a plan for him and myself. Due to school and the fact that winter is coming and it gets dark early, I am only able to ride in the weekend :? so I will have one day of flatwork and trotting poles and another day of jumping (grids etc). Every once in a while I may try higher jumps, but not many of them, to see how he's going with them and to help with his motivation (he gets bored easily and jumping gets him very enthusiastic (usually not in a hard-to-control kind of way :lol) but it will mainly be low jumps, grids, combos and poles for him during winter, along with some relaxing road rides every once in a while. 

He's an awesome horse who loves to jump now that he's found his confidence, and while he used to have a huge refusal/run-out problem a year or so ago due to our lack of confidence, he now approaches jumps (even "scary" ones) interestedly and with no hesitation, although he can have his days where he finds everything scary and new jumps sometimes get him unsure. However, he's a quick learner and any "scary" jump is quickly conquered after another approach or two. He's a good boy and I don't want to overwhelm him with jumps he can't handle, so if grid and pole work can help him, of course I'll go for it!  

Thank you again, everyone, I may post a separate thread for any training progress and new pictures, or just continue this one, or just make an "update on horse with weird jumping form" thread to keep you all updated because you have all been very very helpful!


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