# ALBINO filly?



## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

I saw this article today about an "albino" trotter filly. I was under the impression that albino horses do not exist. But this article continually says albino, not dominant white or anything. Can someone make sense of this? Is H&H just using the wrong terminology?

Wouldn't be the first time they got something wrong.

Scientists baffled by albino horse with brown eyes - Horse & Hound


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Have no idea but it is fascinating. Maybe there were similarities to an albanism gene and that's what they meant. In any case it'd be fascinating to find out and really see where the genetic change is coming from.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I don't know. She looks like a dominant white, to me. Dominant whites have pink skin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

It's impossible for an albino animal to have brown eyes, as they lack pigment. Melanin is what makes the eyes brown, and true albino animals lack melanin. This is just a stupid article imo from someone that didn't do their research.


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## CrossCountry (May 18, 2013)

I agree with Troublemaker.

Impossible to have brown eyes if you are an albino.
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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I also see a dominant white. They are baffled mostly because the dam and sire were dark bay. Probably solid with little to no white, just goes to show that the extent of white expression is unpredictable and loud expressions can come from a minimal or unexpressed parent. 

When I was young, I bred parakeets and had a parakeet pair that produced either a maximum white or an albino in every clutch. First clutch was 5 chicks, 1 was albino (100% white with dark pinkish red eyes), second clutch was only 2 chicks and one was a maximum white except he had black eyes, third clutch was 3 chicks and 1 was also an albino with dark pinkish red eyes. After that my older brother had the pair and he kept an albino chick they had produced in his possession. It is odd that this pair produced albino frequently and none of their progeny (or their progeny for several generations now as my sister still breeds from the original pair of parakeets) used for breeding has produced an albino (never bred the albinos, they had vision/depth perception problems). 

I have also seen an albino dwarf hamster, all white with dark pink eyes. My cousin produced that hamster but it was just one among the large amount of cute prolific hamsters that she had produced. 

Whenever someone claims a horse is albino, it is always found that they are not albino. We have seen albino often enough in other species to know that albinos never have a natural colored eye and tend to have physical and/or health issues.


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

Just out of curiosity would the Albino be the Lethal White that occasionally happens? or does albino just never ever show up in horses?


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

lostastirrup said:


> Just out of curiosity would the Albino be the Lethal White that occasionally happens? or does albino just never ever show up in horses?


Lethal white is a homozygous frame foal. It occasionally happens because it is a 1 in 4 chance of occurring only when breeding two frame carriers (not all breeds carry frame and many of the individual horses in the breeds that are known to have frame don't carry frame)

Lethal white foals themselves appear as a dominant white that cannot poop and die horribly within 72 hours after birth, some lethal white foals actually do have small patches of colored/pigmented areas but are commonly nearly all white which is what they are named for.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

lostastirrup said:


> Just out of curiosity would the Albino be the Lethal White that occasionally happens? or does albino just never ever show up in horses?


Albino doesn't exist in horses. LWO foals are caused by the interaction of the frame gene. Two copies of the frame gene somehow cause the foal's digestive tract to not form completely, thus resulting in death shortly after birth.

ETA: Dang! Ninja'd by Sunny!


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

I saw that article yesterday, that trotter is not albino, but a white mutation, much like how you can get white Standardbreds or Thoroughbreds from none white parents, it just seems to crop up in some families/ breeds.
Albino is still incorrectly used in many parts of the world where color genetics are not as 'fancy' as they are here in North America.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

The worst part about this is that the majority of the newest research on white spotting genes(formerly DW), KIT mutations and one other gene/locus I can't remember is being done in Switzerland, yet they sent her tests to the US. There is a very large discussion about her on the Equine Color Genetics Facebook page.

As said, albino does not exist in horses. She's more than likely a new white spotting gene mutation.
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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Actually, if you look up the biological definition of albino, the presence of pinkish or blue eyes is common, but not mandatory. Albinos necessarily have a deficient of pigment, but not necessarily a complete absence of pigment except when referred to in humans.

Interesting, because I always wondered about the inconsistency in the interpretations of albino myself and only just today took the time to look it up.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

NorthernMama said:


> Actually, if you look up the biological definition of albino, the presence of pinkish or blue eyes is common, but not mandatory. Albinos necessarily have a deficient of pigment, but not necessarily a complete absence of pigment except when referred to in humans.
> 
> Interesting, because I always wondered about the inconsistency in the interpretations of albino myself and only just today took the time to look it up.


If you used that to define an albino, then all grey horses would be albinos as they lose all pigmentation in their hair and are left at the end with no pigmented hair. I have my doubts that a maximally expressed pinto gene would qualify as an albino as genetically they are no different than a horse with typical white markings or is any horse with white markings or the grey gene an albino? After all, they would fit in the broad definition of being classified as albino. Honestly, the maximum white in horses is a heriditary mutation that causes white and there are many types of gene mutations that cause white markings in horses and more appearing/being identified.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Okay to expand a bit more on the definition, pink skin and white hair are mandatory.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

It had DNA done. So it is pretty rare as stated in the article. 
I wonder when and if they will do a report on the genome study.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

If they want to register the foal with a organization they may have to DNA test. When the owners elected to register "White Bliss" the white standardbred foal out of two bay parents the USTA required DNA testing. This was to prove that the foal was indeed the offspring of the two parents it claimed to be. If this horse is a "trotter" that is going to race than it would probably have to be DNA tested.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

NorthernMama said:


> Okay to expand a bit more on the definition, pink skin and white hair are mandatory.


Pink skin and white hair are part of every sock, star, blaze and belly spot and caused by the same genes that can make the entire horse white. Either every horse with a white marking is albino or none of them are. Pinto is the correct terminology when discussing white markings on horses as every sock and star are caused by a white producing gene that can express little amounts of white or express large amounts of white, even maximum expression to cover the entire body in white.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Oh boy... Pink skin and white hair all over, not just spots. Sheesh... OK.. I'll go find the definition and post the link.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

NorthernMama said:


> Oh boy... Pink skin and white hair all over, not just spots. Sheesh... OK.. I'll go find the definition and post the link.


That's the problem. This horse has pink skin and white hair - but it is being caused by one giant white spot. It is NOT albino. Albino has not been documented in horses. The closest we have is the cream double dilutes, which are mutations of the same locus that holds albino in other species, but are NOT the same thing.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Here is a link to the free dictionary that quotes several other dictionaries:
albino - definition of albino by The Free Dictionary
Note the differences between human and other mammals and the terms usually have pink or reddish eyes.

How anyone can get that a pinto would be considered albino out of that is beyond me. Obviously a pinto has substantial pigmentation, and not a marked deficiency.

This link refers only to humans, but interestingly is so far the only link I could find where it is indicated that a human can carry the albino gene, but not be totally lacking colour.

From dictionary.com: 


> 1.a person with pale skin, light hair, pinkish eyes, and visual abnormalities resulting from a hereditary inability to produce the pigment melanin.
> 2.an animal or plant with a marked deficiency in pigmentation.
> 3.Philately. an embossed stamp accidentally left without ink.


OH - here's another one referring to people with only some pigmentation: Scientific America What causes albinism? - Scientific American

So, apparently people as well don't necessarily have to lack all pigmentation to be considered albino.

The article quoted states that they did DNA testing to confirm the albino gene.

More:
What is albinism? What causes albinism Medical News Today
This page speaks about albinism and leukism and directly about animals with white fur and multi-coloured where one colour is white. Scroll down to "Animals with patterns are leukistic, right?" The Veterinary Herpetologist: Leukism (Leucism)

Here's a really good one about different genes involved in this. I wish I had found this one first, however I don't know about the validity of the web site. It _sounds_ really impressive though. <g> Albinism: Genetics

I could keep going, but I have better things to do... like go eat supper


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

But...like Chilaa said, albino has not been documented in horses and the closest they can get is double dilutes. So your point is kind of moot. She is basically one giant pinto spot.
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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Let's use a bit of analogy here. Did you know snakes have a white spotting pattern in their gene pool? They also have albino, so they are handy to look at to spot differences between albino and "big white spot". 

Here is a collection of "piebald" snakes. You can see varying degrees of white spotting, including one that is completely white, with black eyes. Snake white spotting seems to like leaving the head coloured as much as possible, while the belly is often completely white, and the colour spots are left on the back. 










Here is another example of a black eyed white. You can see it definitely has black eyes, despite how snow white its scales are.










Then we have an albino. When you compare this one to the black eyed white, you can clearly see how different the eyes are, you can also see a bit of a difference in skin tone. 










This is consistent with all animals I have examined that have documented albinism, as well as documented white spotting patterns. They are NOT the same thing, they are separate genes, separate phenotypes. Horses have not a single case of documented albinism that I have been able to locate, and believe me, I have looked.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank you all from your input. I assumed it was poor research but was curious.

Also Chiila - thanks for the snake pics! Piebald ball pythons are gorgeous.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

So, what about human albinos who have blue or very light eyes but not red eyes. Just curiosity, if its a melanin deficiency is that why the very light but not red eyes.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Well that is complicated. The reason albino eyes appear red is the reflection off the back of the eye - the retina. In humans, our eye is constructed in a way that the retina is only visible through the pupil, and our pupil is often not wide open, and when it IS wide open, it is low light conditions that make it difficult to see the true colour. However, our irises are the part of the eye that is coloured. In newborns, it is often uncoloured, and still appears to be a grey blue shade. This colour is caused not by the colour of the iris, but by the fibres that make the iris and the way light interacts with them, causing the iris to appear blue. This is probably the reason most albino people appear to have blue eyes - they are not coloured, but the way we see them is if that makes sense?


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Albinism does not exist in horses. Even if it did, you can't have brown eyes and be an albino.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

The point of the research is that this particular horse is very rare. The DNA has been tested (preliminary), the albino gene(s) have been ID'd. There is not just one gene for albinism. That thinking is old. 

And maybe, just maybe, since they did apparently scientifically prove the horse has the albino gene(s), we should revisit the thinking that a horse can't be albino. Maybe a horse just can't have the ocular albino gene, or not in conjunction with the other albino genes - hence the brown eyes. And maybe all those entirely white horses, with entirely pink skin INCLUDING around the eyes but with brown eyes are in fact albino after all. Not just a big white spot. 

From the article posted:


> Professor Maurizio Silvestrelli, director of the Centre for Study of Horse Sport at the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine in University of Perugia, has completed the first part of a genetic map from Via Lattea’s DNA in an attempt to find out.
> This work has *confirmed that although Via Lattea has dark brown eyes, she is a pure albino* due to her white coat and pink skin that covers her entire body, including the area around the eye.


I tried to find the qualifications of the Professor, but due to language barriers, was unable to.

On another small tangent, if a horse has white hair, does it always follow that the skin under the white hair is pink? I know that is not the case in dogs and cats, but I have very limited experience with white or flashy horses.

ETA: yes I do recognize there are colour genes for cremello, (double dilutes)... so no I don't believe that ALL those white horses are/were albino.


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## Kati (Feb 24, 2013)

I can do some research on the professor if you'd like (yay for bilingual!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kati (Feb 24, 2013)

From the Italian news articles it doesn't sound like the professor identifies her as albino. That's just bad translation. That's actually what this whole scenario is sounding more and more like. It's a case of journalists knowing nothing about horses interpreting dominant white as albino and rolling with it.
I'll keep reading when I have time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Chiila, the article stated that supposedly two other albino trotters have been documented. I wasn't able to follow up on it though. 


> There are only two other albino trotters ever recorded in the history of the world — one was born in Canada in 1998 and one in New Jersey in 2012.


The two strongest statements here seem to be: 
1. can't be an albino anything unless the eyes are pink. -- read some of my links and you'll see that is disputed

and 2. albinism isn't possible in horses. Yup, lots of places/sources say that, but now they are saying it is possible. And really, why would it be possible in other mammals, but not horses? Seems farfetched to me.

Why is everyone so stuck against the idea that there can be different variants of albinism, due to the multitude of genetics that must come into play for it to occur at all?

I find this interesting, because this topic has come up several times on the board and I never agreed with people's flat-out statements about albinism in horses, yet never looked into it. Now that I have, I find that it's not so clear cut after all.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

NorthernMama said:


> On another small tangent, if a horse has white hair, does it always follow that the skin under the white hair is pink? I know that is not the case in dogs and cats, but I have very limited experience with white or flashy horses.


Roans and greys have black skin even though they have white hairs. True white markings have pink skin under the white hairs. 

A sock or any white marking on a horse will have pink skin under the white every time. Pintos will have pink skin around the eye unless it has another gene interacting and protecting the eye to give the appearance of black eyeliner around the eye (bald faced pintos may have pink around the eye while the majority of their body could still be colored). 

You can certainly find articles about researches proving horses to be albino but further study of their findings done by peer researchers don't support the same findings. Like the supposed "gay gene" a researcher found and further studies showed that it was common in all men not just the homosexual ones. Sometimes a researcher can find what they want to find and find evidence to support it but then their research results are thrown by the wayside since it can be proven to be an incorrect conclusion by other researchers. 

Horses who are solid white are one giant white spot caused by the same genes that may only make small white spots or hide completely unseen in a solid horse with no white. This is also why cloned horses do not have identical markings because those genes that create white do not behave the same on two horses even though they are genetically identical horses. Breeding for pinto coloring is very unpredictable as you cannot predict the amount or lack of expression. A loud pinto can create a solid baby even though they passed on the pinto genes and that baby could create a loud baby even if it was bred to another solid. It is all part of the gamble in breeding, mutations occur and new coat colors are created but it is a rare occurance. 

Homozygous cream is the closest a horse can get to being albino. Single cream and the coat is diluted while the skin is black and commonly dark eyes, double cream and the coat is extremely diluted, the skin is pink (all skin, including around the eyes) and the eyes are a very light blue. See how a homozygous cream behaves more like an albino mutation than a horse who is bright white with pink skin and dark eyes (heavily researched to be caused by the same genetics that can add minimal white markings as well)? Some pinto genes will turn the eyes, or one eye, or part of an eye to a blue color but it is not the pale light blue eye that a homozgous cream gets without fail.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

The reason double dilutes were brought up is because the genes for cream are on the same locus as where albinism would be. And it HAS NOT been discovered. The horse and the other two are NOT albino, end of story. It is a case of a journalists misinformation and language barrier. She is an as yet unidentified white spotting gene. Period.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

NorthernMama said:


> Chiila, the article stated that supposedly two other albino trotters have been documented. I wasn't able to follow up on it though.
> 
> 
> The two strongest statements here seem to be:
> ...


One of the "albino" trotters is this one:

Rare white foal born in Upper Freehold Township | NJ.com

It is clearly a KIT mutation, and in this case the mutation would be called dominant white. The colour present on the ears and along the mane is a typical foal presentation of dominant white - the colour almost certainly has disappeared by now.

In fact, I found a follow up - and yes, the colour has gone.

Rare white colt makes racing debut Tuesday :: Harnesslink

The one in Canada I can't find a picture of. Her name is "Historicallyunique". She does have a few foals on the ground, two of which are registered as white. This is one of them: 

Rare White Standardbred Winner | Standardbred Canada

The thing with dominant white is that it is a mutation of the KIT locus. This particular locus is notorious for being "unstable" - it mutates relatively frequently. There are at least 20 (yes, twenty) different mutations that are currently called "dominant white". As well as these, roan, tobiano and sabino 1 are all KIT mutations, and I think there is a good chance that rabicano will probably be found there too should we find it (the rabicano bit is my own speculation). It is not at all unusual for a new "dominant white" strain to appear, and in fact it is well documented. The "Puchilingui" line of TBs is very well documented for example. There are a few lines in TBs, a few in STBs, at least 1 that I am aware of in Arabians, and so on.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Kati, thank you for the reading. That would make sense that the accuracy was lost in translation, but doesn't make sense why they figure it's so dang rare. If it's just a white horse, what's the big deal?

Chiilaa: That first link (to NJ) clearly shows a mostly white foal, not entirely white. Why would anyone think that is all white and so obviously not albino.

WHY can't a horse be albino? I guess no one knows? It doesn't make sense to me. Other animals can be - why not a horse?


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

I remember reading somewhere that it was speculated that a if true albinism was/ is present in horses that it could be lethal in utero (much how people thought homozygous roan was 'supposed' to be lethal in utero if I remember correctly.)

I do wonder if there is some truth to it as I cannot remember there being research to actually back it up. Horses are prey animals and since albinism can cause defects in the vision, maybe if it is lethal in utero that is the horses way of preventing it ? Just a theory/ thought. But on that same note I've seen horses born with severe vision defects, so...either way, just a theory.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Again, the gene for albinism has not been identified, if it ever will. Albinism is on MITF, which is also where cream and pearl exist. The closest there is to Albinism in equines are double dilutes.
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## Kati (Feb 24, 2013)

Just wanted to add that given the Italian source I read, this filly's Dom. White gene is located on the KIT locus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

NorthernMama said:


> Chiila, the article stated that supposedly two other albino trotters have been documented. I wasn't able to follow up on it though.
> 
> 
> The two strongest statements here seem to be:
> ...


I know that at least the NJ one is probably dominant white. He is NOT all white anyway, he's got a little medicine hat.

ETA: Oops! Just saw there was a fourth page and that this was addressed.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Yeah, this is the result of a white spotting pattern - looks like a bad translation as previously mentioned. I don't know much about Standardbreds - clearly they carry some sort of white pattern that is minimally expressed most of the time. I've seen accounts of similar happenings with Thoroughbreds where the parents are both solid and produce a white foal. I'm not positive, but I'm fairly certain Yukichan is an example of this.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Yukichan's dam is also dominant white


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