# Critique for my Daughter



## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

I am not going to be very good help but I have to say "Oh MY GOODNESS, SHE IS SO CUTE!!!" She did a nice job controlling the horse and keeping an even pace. Nice job positioning herself in the ring as well. Does she have a chance at a few private lessons as well? This way the trainer can concentrate on her position alone?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Holy crow, that's one lesson group? 
Anyways, the biggest thing I notice (that seems to be common in her students) is that your daughter is pumping with her upper body at the canter. Another gal was practically laying on her horse's neck to cue into the canter (common mistake, leaning forwards to cue "faster") which may be the root of the problem for everyone - ie the instructor not teaching how to sit back and tall in your tack. Start sitting tall and not letting that upper body "pump" at the canter. 
Nice, clean walk to canter transition. Legs need to come back a bit to create proper shoulder-hip-heel alignment. 
I will shut up now so someone with WP experience (I've shown successfully in small circuits, many years ago! Don't think I qualify to help here at all for anything other than position!) chime in!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

Ah, I should have clarified the horse was initially trained WP but she rides and will be showing him HP. It's funny you mention the sitting tall because at the end of the clip you can hear her trainer say "Lilly, still tall and push your chest out." LOL At the walk and trot (which she has been showing in) she is great at Equitation but then she gets to the canter and it's an immediate slumping of the shoulders. Her trainer feels that once she gets comfortable with the canter and the horse, she will straighten up. 

As for the size of the class, that is one of the larger ones on Sat. But she takes one group and one private lesson a week. This group was a mix in ages, levels, and styles. The typical group lesson is about 5 except for the huge lesson on Sat and the one on Friday. Thankfully the bigger the group the lower the cost. 

Anyway, thanks for the feedback.

Oh and Inga, thank you so much. I think she is so cute cause she looks like me (don't tell her I said that, lol).


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

i, too, find that class amazingly large. 

she needs to become softer in the hips so that she can follow the horse better. Her butt is bopping the saddle because she is not flexing enough at the hip to allow herself to sit down and "give" her lower body to the horse.


ONe day she will really cherish these videos, when she rides like a pro and wants to see the beginnings.


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

Just wondering, how many students are there usually in a group class?


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm not sure if this is because she is rocking her shoulders too much and was a bit off balance, but from it looks like she could use a bigger saddle? This is just an observation from when she cantered past. It's also possible that she is pushing back too far in the saddle at the canter. My upper body was a mess until I got a bigger saddle and I actually fit- everything fell into place. Other than than- cute pair and they looked great. Remind her to keep her shoulders tall and look up in the transition. I've never ridden HP, so I might be wrong, but I thought HP horses were the ones who were so on their forehand that it looks like they could do a handstand? This looks more like a dressage frame to me, but I might be getting diciplines mixed up 
I can't believe that in one lesson, people are riding bareback, western AND english!


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

Ashsunnyeventer said:


> I'm not sure if this is because she is rocking her shoulders too much and was a bit off balance, but from it looks like she could use a bigger saddle? This is just an observation from when she cantered past. It's also possible that she is pushing back too far in the saddle at the canter. My upper body was a mess until I got a bigger saddle and I actually fit- everything fell into place. Other than than- cute pair and they looked great. Remind her to keep her shoulders tall and look up in the transition. I've never ridden HP, so I might be wrong, but I thought HP horses were the ones who were so on their forehand that it looks like they could do a handstand? This looks more like a dressage frame to me, but I might be getting diciplines mixed up
> I can't believe that in one lesson, people are riding bareback, western AND english!


Thanks! It's quite possible about the saddle. And I think you are right on about the shoulders back and her habit of looking odwn in the transitions. That's a good point. 

I should have stated before that this is an Arab Barn (they have some NSH, Arab x's, a QH and a ASB, but it's mostly Arabs) so the carriage in HP and even WP is much more collected and looks very different from TB and QH's Hunters. And no Bareback riders. Western, Huntseat, and 2 Saddleseat.


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## newhorsemom (Jun 20, 2008)

I do not have any riding critique, but she needs to have her helmet placed properly on her head and better secured. Just a personal pet peeve of mine, especially w/kids. 

They look cute together! She looks like she is having fun!


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

It's not about "chest out". Her chest is sufficiently out and yet there is still a roach in her back.
The key to good equitation is a strong core. If your daughter is keen on riding and riding well I would suggest to you and her to start getting her into some form of core strengthening or simply cross training exercise. Whether this is a structured yoga, pilates or gymnastics class or something less structured like playing pick up soccer with friends or going on bike rides together a few times a week, all of it will help to improve her core strength for riding. Many of the top training barns in the US have a gym or studio and have a personal trainer come in to train the riders a few times a week. It's not about fat it's about fit! Being too skinny is also not desirable for a rider.

Anyways! Onto the critique. With increase trunk and core strength your daughter will be more effectively able to push her midsection forward. Think about your position leading with the belly button in front of everything. Here is an exaggerated picture of the belly button leading:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FSiCjmGFjO4/UGDA0T6qz5I/AAAAAAAAAK4/KqYabxK5clQ/s320/HBM_4696small.jpg
The horse is in extended trot, so the rider is really having to engage in the core and the trunk to stay with the horse, see the chest is out, but the belly button leads with an engaged core to stay with the horse. If we could see the rider from a complete side view, and without the jacket, her back will be flat with her shoulders flat on her back and her pelvis in a "neutral position" with a natural curve to the lower back - the spine always remains in "neutral" with a flat back:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZ3Nd056mdZdBuLEUJvrSk_tcnxlQ-OOoNcjv_g3gENskc8O1SfxrREDsD

Once she is riding with a leading belly button and an engaged core, the pumping should cease. She needs to think about keeping her shoulders completely level and still and let her seat absorb the motion of the canter. As well, to keep her hands positioned correctly where they are in the video, she will need to focus on pushing her shoulders and elbows down. This requires much core strength. The final thing - and this should also be corrected with an engaged core and when she stops pumping, is to stop sticking her neck forward. The neck is an extension of the spine and again, needs to be in a neutral position. This means engaging the muscles at the back of the neck to tuck the chin and elongate the back of the neck. In yoga this is called "humble chin".

Once the core is engaged and the whole spine aligned and neutral, she will have a good foundation for good equitation. Until the body is stacked and aligned, all other position things (like heels down, thumbs up, etc..) are moot. Until she is riding in a correct balance it will not matter how those aids are given to the horse as he will always be following her weight and alignment. He is a very obedient horse, but with a balanced rider can be exceptional.

Overall I think for your daughter's age she is doing very well, however needs to focus on the fundamentals to form the basis of good equitation for life now. I can tell you from experience that re-learning over top of bad habits years down the road is extremely difficult!
Good luck and keep riding


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Whoops, you're right  I looked again and saw the saddles. The lady with the white pants that was getting the wrong lead looked like she was bareback! Another thing I noticed- Most of these horses need more leg in the transition. You can't take your leg off as soon as your horse switches gaits, you have to keep your leg on until you have a working canter.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Oh my goodness! she is absolutely lovely! It looks like she definitely was one of the most advanced riders. 
The video you posted is really hard to judge anything from. Along the wall she was to far away to really see her well, and on the close wall, it was to close :lol:
She is a lovely, great position(from what I could see), and a very quiet rider. She did however look a little stiff with her position, but it was hard to really say what was happening again, due to the distance from which you were filming. The other thing I would suggest is to bring her hand up. You want to be able to see a straight line from her elbow to the horse's bit. She was doing what a lot of us do and had her a little to low into the base of the neck.

Did you have any other videos of her?


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

My2Geldings said:


> Oh my goodness! she is absolutely lovely! It looks like she definitely was one of the most advanced riders.
> The video you posted is really hard to judge anything from. Along the wall she was to far away to really see her well, and on the close wall, it was to close :lol:
> She is a lovely, great position(from what I could see), and a very quiet rider. She did however look a little stiff with her position, but it was hard to really say what was happening again, due to the distance from which you were filming. The other thing I would suggest is to bring her hand up. You want to be able to see a straight line from her elbow to the horse's bit. She was doing what a lot of us do and had her a little to low into the base of the neck.
> 
> Did you have any other videos of her?


I will try and see if I can get a better video of her (haha, I'm not the best videographer that's for sure). It's such a long indoor arena I never know where to stand to get the best shot. Thank you for all the great critique. This thread has been so helpful and she is excited to try out all the new ideas.


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm still trying to find a better video but while I was looking I found this one of her learning to canter exactly a year ago. This was her 3rd lesson. My she has come a long way. For all those newbies who get frustrated....stick with it. It takes time.


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

Ooops, it wouldn't let me edit it. Here is the embedded video. BTW, that's my son in the aqua shirt on the grey. He stopped riding after about 4 months. He was really getting good but 1. he hated the outfits t show in, 2. he preferred to play with the owners son, and 3. as he put it "too many girls!!!!!! blech".


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Couple things I see in this video. Number one HEELS down. I also see or at least, think I do (bad eyes from far away) that she is riding in tennis shoes? If so, I never allow that. I like to see kids (or anyone for that matter) riding in a shoe or rather, boot with a heel. Dover Saddlery - Search Results for boots

Notice all the boots have a little heel. This will help to prevent the foot from sliding through the iron or getting hung up. A safety issue that I believe strongly in. 

It is again hard to say too much in this video as she is working hard to do a transition and is losing her center of balance. Putting her weight in her heels and butt at this point would help. With riding, if you lose one thing, it tends to go a bit wonky which is what happened here. She is a lovely girl and with more transitions will come comfort in it. As they say "Rome wasn't built in a day" it takes practice and persistence. I like to see that the trainer this time was more focused on her rather then an enormous group of people riding. I think she will benefit from these more private lessons. Can't wait to see more.


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

Inga said:


> Couple things I see in this video. Number one HEELS down. I also see or at least, think I do (bad eyes from far away) that she is riding in tennis shoes? If so, I never allow that. I like to see kids (or anyone for that matter) riding in a shoe or rather, boot with a heel. Dover Saddlery - Search Results for boots
> 
> Notice all the boots have a little heel. This will help to prevent the foot from sliding through the iron or getting hung up. A safety issue that I believe strongly in.
> 
> It is again hard to say too much in this video as she is working hard to do a transition and is losing her center of balance. Putting her weight in her heels and butt at this point would help. With riding, if you lose one thing, it tends to go a bit wonky which is what happened here. She is a lovely girl and with more transitions will come comfort in it. As they say "Rome wasn't built in a day" it takes practice and persistence. I like to see that the trainer this time was more focused on her rather then an enormous group of people riding. I think she will benefit from these more private lessons. Can't wait to see more.


I should have been clearer. That video you were referring to was of her very first lesson a year ago. The original video I posted that I want critique of her on is on the first page. That one is of her today. I just posted the video above to show how much she has changed.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Oh Thank Goodness I thought "How was she that much more solid in the earlier video?" ha ha

Still hold on the opinion of boots needed vs. tennis shoes for anyone. Also, like the idea of private lessons vs. huge groups. I don't think huge group lessons can do too much for someone. Things are missed that wouldn't be if the teacher was focused on you (her) Also, again for me, a safety issue.


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

Inga said:


> Oh Thank Goodness I thought "How was she that much more solid in the earlier video?" ha ha
> 
> Still hold on the opinion of boots needed vs. tennis shoes for anyone. Also, like the idea of private lessons vs. huge groups. I don't think huge group lessons can do too much for someone. Things are missed that wouldn't be if the teacher was focused on you (her) Also, again for me, a safety issue.


Hahaha. Yeah, I realized after the fact that it was kind of confusing. 

She takes one private lesson and one group lesson a week. I know it's an individual thing, but I kind of like throwing a few group lessons in because when she shows she was so much more prepared to ride among a large group of people then had she only taken private lessons. 

As for the sneakers, I think each barn is different. They allow you to wear sneakers the first few lessons. I think because they have different level riders and many kids come to ride for the first time here. Just there policy. They ask that if you are going to continue to ride though you get proper boots. 

What I love about this barn is that they have first time riders, National Champs, and all levels in between. They have older people who just want to ride again for fun and young riders who want to show. I've been really impressed with them and even though I was a little shell shocked about the price they obviously know what they are doing because that little girl in the previous video all wobbly and who couldn't get a canter going to save her life, in a year has improved a lot.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

She certainly has improved and I am so happy it wasn't what I first thought upon seeing that second video. I thought maybe she had a big scare and totally lost her confidence. ha ha 

I agree that there is a benefit to doing an occasional group lesson. I guess I can see taking a lesson or two in the beginning without boots because you want to give a person an idea of whether or not they wish to invest in this hobby but safety is a big thing for me. Helmets are a must too even though I have been known to jump on horses without either proper shoes or helmet here and there, I always try to teach "proper safety" first. 

The group lesson thing for me just scares me because of past history. I spent a month at a "show barn" where there was an instructor that gave huge group lessons while she sat on the end of the arena and read a magazine. Boarders were also able to ride in the large indoor while she was doing these lessons so it was very busy in there at times. 

Once while I was riding a Morgan Stallion, I saw a Quarter horse (lesson horse) go down with his young rider and try to roll. The child's leg was pinned and the horrid teacher didn't even notice. I screamed at her and took my gaited whip to try to get the horse up but had to keep control of my horse. I was finally able to get the horse up and the kid was scared to death. I just remember seeing his eyes, terrified as this horse was rolling up over his tiny body. That woman should have been in jail as far as I was concerned. I know she got sued a few times for things like that. It just makes me a bit MORE defensive about things. Not saying that could happen in your situation as your teacher was obviously intently watching her students. Just flashbacks, you know?


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

Oh goodness, that's horrible. No wonder you have reservation with group lessons. So would I had I seen something that awful. You are so right in that you have to really be careful when choosing a barn. Thankfully I used to train Saddlebreds and ride in my younger days (hehe) so I knew what to look for. But I have heard stories from friends where one barn the lady was giving her lesson horses ACE to make them calmer for lessons. Scary stuff. 

I think most places ask for the minimum of boots and helmets. Helmets are a must for riders under 21.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I too have had problems with group lessons. I was in a group lesson once and the trainer set up a course to jump. I was just learning to jump, so I wasn't really balanced yet. Trainer sat in the ring on a jump I wasn't jumping and told me to jump the course. I started the course and when I pointed my horse at a jump, a girl who was also riding in the lesson walked where I needed to land. Horse refused the jump, I fell off and the trainer didn't even notice because she was on Facebook on her phone. He exact words were, "well what are you doing down there?"

I've also seen people get run into and fall off in large groups. Group lessons can work sometimes, but for a very short period of time. I believe that a beginner should have private lessons to learn the basics safely and get the teacher's full attention. I also think that more advanced riders should get private lessons because they are doing more difficult things. I agree that it's good practice for shows, but I would be very very careful with group lessons. I'd really consider just private lessons because it's harder to develop bad habits this way. The first 3 years I rode, I had group lessons, and I'm really paying for it now. 5 years later and I still have to focus on fixing this or thatbecause I didn't have the specialized attention that beginners need. 

On another hand- big improvement in just a year. I'm surprised that she was cantering on her 3rd lesson though. I spent 3 months at the w/t before I was allowed to canter...


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

Wow, it sounds like you all had some pretty bad trainers. Scary stuff.


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## newhorsemom (Jun 20, 2008)

Wow! She has come a long way in a year! She is really turning into a nice rider. You must be a very proud mom.


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

newhorsemom said:


> Wow! She has come a long way in a year! She is really turning into a nice rider. You must be a very proud mom.


Thanks. I am so happy she found something she really likes doing.....even if I did kind of brainwash her, lol.


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