# Jumping critique. :]



## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Alright well I have a thread in the jumping section explaining out ride. We had a problem with jumping WAY too early today, we need to do some bounces and practice with some ground poles to fix this. The thread in the jumping section asks for tips on how to set him up so that he doesn't dive at the jumps. He used to compete at four foot in jumpers so this is all very boring for him. He's relearning how to jump small jumps. My issues were that when he would take off early I'd get left behind, that and occasionally I'd jump ahead. It's either one end of the spectrum or the other. With more practice and with a trainer (starting jump lessons soon), we'll find that happy medium in no time I'm sure.

Don't be too harsh. I haven't jumped since I was like 12 (6 years ago).
And haven't had a jump lesson since than either. And yes, Zu is jumping very flat. As I said, he was bored. It's all about my position, how I need to set him up, and how to get him to jump round over the little jumps, as well as to wait for the jumps.

Thanks! 


Starting off with the baby x's.
He was bored but didn't take off too soon with these.









Jumping ahead...









Takeoff.









Knew he was gonna take off early and jumped ahead, ha ha.









SOOOOO left behind.









And ended on a nice note.









The end. :]


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## Clementine (Sep 24, 2009)

Your overall jumping position looks very good! Nice straight back, and looking over the jump, and plenty (if perhaps a little too much?) release...the only thing I noticed is that you could stand to roll your knee into the saddle more and ride off the front of your thighs, which will help to bring your toes in - right now it looks like you're hanging on with your heels, which may actually have something to do with him taking off too early. 

Perhaps it is because you are getting ahead of him, but I noticed that he is hanging a leg in all of the pictures (except the last one, which is what leads me to believe it is related to your position). Like I said, you look pretty good to me, but I'm no pro, so I'm glad you're getting a trainer. Good luck, and have fun!


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Thanks! I don't have any trouble believing that his jumping form is due to my position. But I will say that after competing at 4' he is not going to try too hard over anything less than 2'6" or 3'. At least not at first.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Bump. Only one reply? 
I know my position needs LOADS of work. Have at it! And also, he is being switched out of the gag bit ASAP. 
I've been wanting to for a while now and have come to the realization that it is not benefiting Zeus or me at ALL, it needs to go.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

hmm...
don't release to much. Your leg slide back and the reason is because of how much release your on. maybe shorten up your stirrups


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

A bit chicken-winged perhaps?


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

EventersBabe: I'm sorry but my leg isn't sliding back because of my release... those two things don't correlate. However, my leg _is_ sliding back. It's caused by me jumping ahead. Instead of throwing myself out of the saddle when he jumps I need to wait, let him come up to me, shove my lower leg forward to the girth, and fold rather than standing my stirrups. I also think my stirrup length is okay because of where my knee is in the saddle, seems in the right place. But I could be wrong about that one. Thanks for the reply though! :]

Sunny: Maybe a little. I think it's the lack of proper release. Ideally I should still have contact with his mouth over jumps, but for now I'm going to secure my seat before I worry too much about it. I'd rather throw away his head than catch him in the mouth.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Oh, sure, sure. I was just pointing it out 

Kind of random but I like your horse's head. It's very pretty.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Thank you! I think he's very handsome myself.
But I may be biased.
;]


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

Your gripping with the back of your calf in the first two pictures. Judging by the timing of all the pictures I think you actually did it over the other fences as well. I'm assuming you have an issue like I used to. I would grip with the inside of my calf to the fence and then without even realizing it rotate it as I went up and at the peak of the jump I was gripping with it. Also I think you are pinching with your knees in several of the these pictures and barely using your calf at all. You could probably benefit from no stirrup work, assuming you focus and make sure you are strengthening the inside of your calf, not the back. 

Also I'd recommend getting contacts, I had a trainer tell me a story about a girl who fell off and her glasses tore up her face.

But other than that you look pretty durn good. Good stirrup length, good heels.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

^ My glasses (not these ones) have cut my face before during a fall. I hate contacts. I won't wear them, but thanks anyway! I do think that I grip with the back of my calf. I really need a jump trainer to be on the ground telling me these things as I'm riding... bleh. Soon! I actually rode for two weeks without stirrups about... two or three weeks ago because one of my stirrups broke, they were super old, and it took forever to get new ones. I don't disagree that I should do it more. Thank you! I'm really trying when I jump to just think about bending at the hip and shoving my legs forward and my seat back instead of standing. But standing like I do is kind of an automatic responce from me because that's how I was first taught to jump. I had HORRIBLE coaches when I was little and didn't know better. I have so many annoying bad habits ingrained in me. I'm working really hard to get rid of them.

I'm ranting! Ha ha.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Ok - I know you just started and yes, we all pick up bad habits - I am one of those. Trust me. I have issues of my own, and yes I agree - I even prefer to have someone on the ground watching me ride so that they can point out things, so I can correct them.

When I was riding on my own, I accumulated so many retarded riding traits - rediculous.

Ok - I'm going to start with this picture:










The first thing I see, is you dropped him. You are very lucky to have a horse that continues to do his job. If that were Nelson, he'd of stopped and I'd of kept going - lol - not funny.

You must support every step of the way. You cannot just stop riding and say "ok, now you do it".......doesn't work on every horse.

You are already anticipating the fence. See where your seat is? See how it is already coming out of the tack and your horse hasn't even planted his hind feet to lift off. Your upper body is already creaping forward onto his forehand - and again, you dropped him with your shoulders. 

I love that you are looking up. Your legs are great, heels are great. The only issue is you anticipating the fence and your horses jump. You must aid him every step.

Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. I cannot stress that enough - ESPECIALLY on a strong, forward, powerful horse *Nelson is the same* You must always use your body to support on approach to each and every fence.

When I am between the fences, I move into a 1/2 seat - but when I am about 5 strides out, I sit, tall upper body, hands carried and supporting my horse through my legs.



















You want to be behind your horse. And the result was, on the next picture - you jumping ahead. 

Your release is lovely, and I love that you are using your horses neck and mane for support. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. 


~~~

This picture here:










Is great. I love that you are sitting down. I love your leg and I love that you are waiting for him. Great job.

Sit - that is exactly what I mean. Stay behind your horse, that is exaclty what I mean. 

I love that you opened him up and got out of his way. Nothing wrong with that for now. Besides, I wouldn't want to hold onto his face with that bit in his mouth either.

Your leg is solid enough to keep him going - but I'm not liking your heels.

I love that you are looking up and beyond. I love your hip angle.

~~~

This one:









Nice as well. Your seat is just where it should be, could be a bit back more though, but I can't complain.

You lost your leg and your heel has come up. 

~~~

All in all - things I would have you work on if you were my student.

Sit and wait. Sit and wait. 5 strides out, SIT, tall upper body, nice hand carraige n wrap your legs around your horses girth.

With a horse that likes to take off too early - this will help. What I do with Nelson, because he can do the same thing, is put him in check about 3 strides away. 

Sit, tall upper body, shorten your reins, carry your hands, lift his ribs up into your seat, and do 1 tug on your reins while saying outloud "WOAH" and let go. Stay behind him. 

Don't get onto your pockets, stay on your 3 points. 

This is something Dorothy Crowell worked on with a very hot and flighty TB I was riding for a client at the barn I was a working student at for 2 years. Big huge Mo-Fo named Flag Me Down aka Flag. 

He would approach the fence nicely, but about 3 strides out BOOOM he would fly. I was holding onto his face the whole time but Dorothy Corrected me.

She would have me sit, tall upper body, put him in check, release and let him do the rest. Then, circle after the fence or serpentine around pilons set up after the fence we were working on *at a trot* come back around and approach the same fence in the other direction.

Rhtym, Rhtym, Rhtym, Rhythm.

What is happening - is that your fellow is tuning you out. Nelson does the same thing. 

Hope that helps.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Thank you! The critique I was hoping for! See I was totally backwards. 
I though that in this picture:









... that I was going to get left behind. And I don't remember if I actually did on that one. But that was the problem today (besides the normal trying not to jump ahead), I kept getting left behind. *I'll assume*, because of taking of too early, which *I know* was caused by me dropping him. Got it! So my goals: steady, rhythm, WAIT, fold at the hip, heels anchored, inside of calf against his side instead of the back of my calf, check/half-halt before the fence, sit tall, and support him to the base of the jump ... anything i'm forgetting? Ha ha.

Is it weird that I get excited when I get torn apart and have new goals for my riding?
I'm always asking people I ride with to yell at me. Aha ha ha.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm so proud of you!


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

I think everyone else pretty much hit everything, but i was just curious as to why you are jumping the vertical in the last picture with the groundpole on the wrong side. Same with second to last. It's not such a big deal with jumps that tiny, but it might have a little bit to do with his awkward take-offs. The point of a groundpole is to help the horse judge the height of the jump and determine where and with how much power they should take off. A horse's depth perception isn't too great, so when the groundpole is on the wrong side it can throw them off a bit. That's all though. Overall, good work! :]


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## Velvet (Dec 3, 2008)

One thing I have noticed on MANY pics on MANY of these topics is that just about everyone's stirrups are too long. The longer your stirrups are, the harder it is to get out of your saddle over a jump.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

xeventer17 said:


> I think everyone else pretty much hit everything, but i was just curious as to why you are jumping the vertical in the last picture with the groundpole on the wrong side. Same with second to last. It's not such a big deal with jumps that tiny, but it might have a little bit to do with his awkward take-offs. The point of a groundpole is to help the horse judge the height of the jump and determine where and with how much power they should take off. A horse's depth perception isn't too great, so when the groundpole is on the wrong side it can throw them off a bit. That's all though. Overall, good work! :]


xeventer17: I know how ground poles are used, I wasn't using them, ha ha. They were tucked up underneath the jumps. That's just where they're put away. I don't think the poles being under the jump had much to do with the early takeoffs. Wouldn't they be a bit farther out and not directly underneath the jumps if we were using them? Thanks though! 

Velvet: I don't think my stirrups were too long, but it could be personal preference. If you look at my leg position in the saddle it's exactly where it should be. What makes you think they're too long?


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

Uhm, no. Not necessarily. The only time they don't affect the horse's perspective of the jump is when they are directly underneath. Those groundpoles are out about where I set them up when I'm using them. The only way to know that they are truly not messing with the horses depth perspective is to move them completely out of the way. And I actually agree with Velvet about the stirrups thing.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

I agree with MIEventer. 

In addition, I have a question for you regarding the bit. Why a gag? That's a lot of bit with not a lot of forgiveness for a rider working on form over fences. I understand that your horse is forward and likes to jump strong, but with more work on the flat and on your riding strength (using seat and legs to control pace and set rhythm rather than relying on reins) you will not only have a better ride on the flat but over fences as well.

If you DO definitively need a stronger bit, I ask you to reconsider what you are using. A bit as harsh as a gag (esp with nylon cheekpieces) requires a lot of finesse during the approach, over, and on landing for a fence which is all things that right now you are working on for you. Your horse is lovely, but if you could work to develop your seat and leg first, I think your jumping would be better, not just with regards to position but with regards to your riding overall as you'd be moving with your horse rather than focused on the fence alone.

Hope that helps and good luck!


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

xeventer17: Once again, what in those pictures makes you think my stirrups are too long? I'm just curious. I'm hearing "too long" but not why anyone thinks that. They're not so long that they affect my position, the leg sliding back is due to me jumping ahead. So how are they too long? As for the ground poles, he over jumped from BOTH sides (though there may not be a picture of it, it happened) so once again I don't think they were the problem. I've already come to the conclusion that I was not riding him to the base of the jump and not telling him when to jump. I dropped him, so he made his own decisions.

CJ82Sky: I've already decided to switch him to my french link or to my rubber d snaffle immediately. I was unsure about how bad the gag actually was until recently, and won't be using it again. And I am working on riding with my seat and legs first, and reins/hands last. I've been working on it for a while now, and we're making some progress. Actually about 80% of the time during this ride he would come down from a canter after the jumps just by my seat. It's a great feeling, but we still have a ways to go. :]


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## Velvet (Dec 3, 2008)

Well, to me it looks like you are reaching downwards towards the stirrups with your legs, it looks a bit uncomfortable to me.

But hey, just my 2 cents worth! hehe We may do things very differently here. Personally I prefer my stirrups shorter so that I can get extra spring over the jumps.


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## HeartMyOTTB (Aug 13, 2009)

As far as your position goes, your legs look good as do your heels. You just need to wait with your upper body. That way you aren't just standing up over the pommel. With that said, I would have to agree with you, your stirrups don't look to long. You have nice leg position and your knees are right where they should be.

I do, however, agree with xeventer17. Those poles are clearly on the wrong side of the jump and not directly underneath. I prefer to use a ground pole, it stablizes me as well as my horse. I feel weird when I jump something that is all air underneath. If you don't like to use them, then yes, I would remove them completely.

Good job so far though!


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

Gillian said:


> CJ82Sky: I've already decided to switch him to my french link or to my rubber d snaffle immediately. I was unsure about how bad the gag actually was until recently, and won't be using it again. And I am working on riding with my seat and legs first, and reins/hands last. I've been working on it for a while now, and we're making some progress. Actually about 80% of the time during this ride he would come down from a canter after the jumps just by my seat. It's a great feeling, but we still have a ways to go. :]


*applauds* glad to hear


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## elrohwen (Jan 19, 2009)

I just have to say that your horse is one of the most gorgeous on the forum (in my humble opinion, and for my personal taste in horses). I may have to steal him one day!! I always get a little excited when you post pics of him 

And I think your position is actually not terrible for someone who hasn't jumped in a long time. I think doing grids/working with poles will help him jump at the right spot (and help you keep him relaxed so he doesn't jump early) and this will tremendously help your position. It's hard to stay with a horse who's jumping at unpredictable spots. Once you can get him jumping more consistently I think your position will become more consistent (you might still have issues to work against, but at least your problems will become consistent and you can do something about them). I would focus on sitting back to the jumps and keeping him very calm and relaxed. Try to shorten his stride and don't let him rush and take control at the base of the jump. I know, easier said than done on a strong horse ;-) but this is where the grids and poles will help you out.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

^ Thank you so much! Personally I think he's gorgeous and definitely my dream horse, however cheesy that may sound. I do agree that once we're jumping consistently it'll be SO much easier to stay with him. Right now I'm never sure where he'll take off and just trying to stay out of his way. I'm sure once we start jump lessons it'll all clear up quickly.

Thanks again!


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## CaptainLiecy (Sep 29, 2009)

i like your leg position, you seem very balanced over the top of them
your horse is gogeous


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