# Diagonals



## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm a very new rider (two hours of lessons and counting ...) and having been introduced to the concept of diagonals, I'm told that in time I'll learn to feel which diagonal I'm on, rather than having to glance down at the horse's shoulder. Obviously the biggest help will be practice, practice, practice, but what should I be feeling _for_?

My seat isn't very good yet, and as I'm still learning the very basics of riding I'm not very good at communicating with the horse via my bum! In my last riding lesson, my friend who was watching informed me that while I was trotting 20m circles, my horse was ... manuring the arena, so to speak. But as I couldn't feel that, I was urging him forwards with my legs while he was trying to go to the loo xD


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## jeddah31 (Jun 11, 2008)

You will learn to feel the horse through your seat. Even if you don't belive it at this stage. Trotting on a 20m circle, if you are rising on the incorrect diagonal, you will feel slightly off-balanced and you horse won't feel like it's on the circle properly. 
It just takes a lot of time, it's not really something you can explain, you have to learn yourself, through feeling it


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## *ArabianPrincess* (Nov 8, 2006)

I agree with jeddah.

I also know which diagonal I'm on automatically because going to the left i go onto the right diagonal but going to the right i'm not so i can change after changing my rein from left to right =]

If you find which diagonal you automatically go on first the time you change your rein you can change it and not have to worry about feeling for it haha xD

Well that's what i taught myself anyway cause i used to not have lessons.


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

Yes, practice is definitely what I need the most of! Right now it's all unfamiliar enough for the unbalanced moments to be happening for all sorts of reasons, not just being on the wrong diagonal, but I know with time it'll come to me. I do latin and ballroom dancing at university, so I know how it feels when practice makes something click. I was never very co-ordinated until I started dancing, so I'm hoping that as I grew my dancing feet, I'll grow my riding seat and things will just become natural and instinctive.

I've already noticed, however, that I have a tendency to look at the horse's right shoulder every time, rather than his outside one. Must curb that before it becomes a habit and I'm on the wrong diagonal half the time!

I'm also having trouble with losing my stirrups a little sometimes, having my foot slide about in them. I know from my instructor that dropping my weight into my heels will stop this from happening, but right now I seem to be tensing my legs up quite a bit, stopping me from doing that! I know that practice, practice, practice is the key, and two lessons a week really doesn't feel like enough when I'm itching to get out and learn every day!


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## mlkarel2010 (Jan 27, 2008)

the easiest thing to remember is that you move with the outside or rail shoulder, when it moves forward so do you, even though you will move more up than forward :roll: 

another thing you can do is actually say "up, down, up, down, up, down" so that you don't lose your place.... i know it sounds dumb, but that's what i did when i learned to post


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Glancing down for a sec is okay, I have to do that myself sometimes. But usually I just feel it. Keep practicing, you'll get it!


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

To feel a diagonal you need to first be able to feel where your horse's hind legs are (which is crucial for more advanced riding later on). At a trot your horse's footfalls will be going in what's called a diagonal pair. For example, the first beat would be your horse's outside front leg going forward at the same time as your horse's inside hind. Second beat your horse's inside front will go forward as his outside hind goes forward. So since you stand when his outside front goes forward, you also go forward when his inside hind goes forward. 

I find the best way to learn where your horse's hind legs are is from a sitting trot without stirrups. Try to get the feel of his hind leg actually rising and swinging forward. Look down to begin, and then say to your self, now, now, now, now, every time it moves.


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

mlkarel2010 said:


> another thing you can do is actually say "up, down, up, down, up, down" so that you don't lose your place.... i know it sounds dumb, but that's what i did when i learned to post


I did that a lot my first few times trotting - I get muddled quite easily, and in my dancing I'm always murmuring the rhythm under my breath too.

I'm pretty aware of the movement of the horse's hind legs when I'm in a walk, but when concentrating on trotting I don't have as much mental space to think about it all. I guess as more and more of trotting becomes natural and automatic, it'll all be able to come together.

My mum (total beginner), myself and my best friend (experienced rider, used to hunt, but out of practice) are hoping to ride here this weekend (my friend has been there lots of times before) and my own private plan is to work on feeling my diagonals during that ride. Just getting more aware of how it feels to be on the horse and what my bum can tell me.


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

mlkarel2010 said:


> the easiest thing to remember is that you move with the outside or rail shoulder, when it moves forward so do you, even though you will move more up than forward :roll:
> 
> another thing you can do is actually say "up, down, up, down, up, down" so that you don't lose your place.... i know it sounds dumb, but that's what i did when i learned to post


I learned it "rise and fall with your leg on the wall" same thing different words!!. I had a few people give me tips here and there but mostly I rode by myself. i would glance down every once and awhile to verify i was still in it. With more hours in the saddle you will start to learn your hroses stide and feel. Just keep practicing and asking questions. The best thing would be getting someone knowing what to look for assisting you and telling you when you bounced out of the wrong one (or hit the correct one) until you get a feel of it.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

when i was teachng equitation lessons (gosh that's been a while now), I would always tell my students when looking at the horse's shoulder that it is easier to sit when the outside leg is back than it is to try to rise when it's forward...

don't know if that made sense...haha


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

kickshaw said:


> when i was teachng equitation lessons (gosh that's been a while now), I would always tell my students when looking at the horse's shoulder that it is easier to sit when the outside leg is back than it is to try to rise when it's forward...
> 
> don't know if that made sense...haha


Yeah, that's what my instructor taught me. My first lesson learning about diagonals was easy because she specifically chose a horse with a huge shoulder and long stride, and he was skewbald with the pattern running over his shoulders, making it really easy to see how his legs were moving. Next lesson, on a horse chosen because he had a nice canter, I had to look for longer to see how he was moving.


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## moomoo (Feb 21, 2007)

To kindof feel what your meant to feel, go into rising trot then feel and guess if which diagonal you are on, then glance down and see if you were correct


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

I managed to get another lesson today and I definitely noticed that things didn't feel quite right when I was on the wrong diagonal. I also worked on my canter (my back aches like mad after that and yesterday!) and I noticed that when I was coming back into rising trot, I always seemed to come in on the wrong diagonal. But I know I need to work on my timing for that so I don't end up bouncing in the canter _or_ getting a great big jolt from the trot.

Cantering was really fun! My dad came to watch, and filmed me too - I have loads to work on, of course, and the video definitely picks that up - and I had such a great time! Charlie B will drop back into a trot if you let him get away with it, but I had him cantering all round the arena until I asked for a trot. I felt so much more secure in the saddle, too. Yesterday I had a lesson doing the sitting trot without stirrups, just as upnover recommended, and I learned a lot more about my seat. I also felt the difference between a slow walk and a marching one - moving side to side with his hips, and moving backwards and forwards with his back.

Thanks, everyone, for all your advice and help  I've been remembering it during my lessons and it's helped me a lot. As final proof of my progress: I'm now aware of it when the horse is going to the loo xD


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Aw glad you're doing better, all it takes is time & practice!!!


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

claireauriga said:


> I'm a very new rider (two hours of lessons and counting ...) and having been introduced to the concept of diagonals, I'm told that in time I'll learn to feel which diagonal I'm on, rather than having to glance down at the horse's shoulder. Obviously the biggest help will be practice, practice, practice, but what should I be feeling _for_?
> 
> My seat isn't very good yet, and as I'm still learning the very basics of riding I'm not very good at communicating with the horse via my bum! In my last riding lesson, my friend who was watching informed me that while I was trotting 20m circles, my horse was ... manuring the arena, so to speak. But as I couldn't feel that, I was urging him forwards with my legs while he was trying to go to the loo xD


Give it time. As you take more lessons and put more riding time under your belt you will become more in tune with your horse's movement.
One thing you could do now is to start to pay more attention as to how the horse is moving during your lessons. When you look down for that diagonal pay close attention to your horse's movement.

It's not something you acquire right away, especially when you are just learning to ride. It will come with time.

Good Luck


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## sandsarita (Jan 20, 2008)

A hint for when you are going from the canter to the trot. If you are traveling in one direction at the canter on the correct lead, and you stay on the same track, if you rise up on that first trot stride, you will be on the correct diaganol every time. If you are switching directions (going from left lead canter to tracking to theright, or the reverse), if you sit one beat of the trot and then rise up, you'll be correct.

Another thing is that I learned the diaganols by coming up when that inside hind leg hits me from behind (ie when it is coming forward). I spent A LOT of time on the lunge line working on this, some with my eyes closed, and now it just comes naturally. I never have to look, I don't even have to think about it. My body has just gotten to the point that I can automatically feel that hind leg, and it goes with it. It takes a LONG time to get to that point, but it is entirely possible. It just takes work.


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## Abby (Nov 26, 2007)

When I was taking lessons, I learned about diagonals too. At first you are bewildered but before you know it, you're auto correcting yourself and picking up the right diagonal without even thinking about it. It used to happen to me all the time, and she would say "Good job! You switched before I could tell you," and I'm thinking "Huh?"


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## Mandyy (Jul 13, 2008)

A little rhyme that helped me learn my Diagonals "Rise and fall with the leg on the wall" in other words when you feel the outside leg rise, your seat should rise as well


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## firemom1 (Jul 17, 2008)

Rise and fall with the leg on the wall is who I was taught also! I stunck at getting the correct diagnol for along time. My horse is realyl smooth and everyone kept telling me you can feeli t, well that is so not true with him!! Then i rode a different horse i was starting englisha dn there it was as easy as could be I could get the correct diagnol every time. Just a different gait or rougher horse! I was so happy and it helped me get it on my horse better! I get it now, that was a number of years ago! Good luck, not the easiest thing to learn!


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm making progress! I had a lesson this evening, the first in a few weeks, and while I wasn't very good (poor aids => sloppy transitions) I really enjoyed it and worked really hard. I was automatically finding the right diagonal lots of the time (not sure how, most were probably just luck), but at one point I was going walk to trot and right away it felt a little off. I glanced down, saw I was on the wrong diagonal, and switched right away. My instructor told me well done and I was really heartened, because I'm making progress, woohoo


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

That's great you're making progress!  See how easy it is?! Just takes time!


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

Last night I dreamed that I did it again xD


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## Rachluvshorses4eva (Apr 11, 2007)

Like many others have said. You'll learn them through you're seat. But how I remembered which diagonal was right, I'd go like this:

When the horse strikes off into a trot look on the outside shoulder. If his outside shoulder is going forward when you're rising and moving backwards when you're sitting, you're on the right diangonal. :wink: Rmember it like this; you go forward when the horse's shoulder goes forward. You go down when you're horse's shoulder goes down. I hoped that helped! Enjoy your future lessons!


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

Yup, I know how to check visually that I'm on the right diagonal; I just sit as the outside shoulder goes back. It's feeling it that I hope I'm beginning to learn ^^


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## Rachluvshorses4eva (Apr 11, 2007)

You are! To the sounds of me you are. Have you had anymore lessons? And do you ride a pony or a horse?


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

I have another lesson this evening  I ride a horse  He's a big gelding, around 16hh (I don't know the exact measurement; I'll compare him to the horses I know are 16.1hh and 15.3hh xD) and of a mix of breeds but definitely some cob as he's got a huge bum and is stocky and chunky. I'm tall with long legs (I'm five foot eight and my legs are longer than those of a six foot two male friend) and I've ridden something that was about 13hh and it was the most uncomfortable ride I've ever been on!

I definitely like big horses. Longer stride, so you don't feel like you're sitting on a jackhammer, and you're just so much more secure! On the pony, at first I felt like I was about to come off in trot (I ended up shortening my stirrups to rectify that, though), but I've never once felt off balance or about to fall on Charlie Brown, even with really messy trot/canter transitions.


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## Rachluvshorses4eva (Apr 11, 2007)

Wow! You'll find that bigger horses are prlly better and easier torise trot in as they are bigger and slower so it gives you more time. Especially when you're just starting! But man girl! You must have some guts! Riding a tall horse like that for your first time...Phew! You go girl!


Congrats!


Let us know how the other lesson comes along...


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

My first lesson was on a 16.1hh mare - I didn't realise how big she was until I slung my legs over the side, dropped down ... and then had to drop about a foot more to reach the ground xD I don't know why the big horses are scary; for me they seem so much less so! You've got a nice secure seat and they have big trots and they're not going to veer off and do something crazy like a pony might xD But then, when you're leading them, you do realise that they weigh about twelve or thirteen times what you do and you have to Be The Boss if they're going to move xD

As I've mentioned elsewhere, a friend is teaching me how to groom her horse, Luca. He's 17hh, so his withers are level with the top of my head, but the only time I actually realise how big he is is when you get the flyspray out and he starts trying to hide in the corner of his loose box. Otherwise you just use him as a table and rest all the brushes on his back until you need them xD


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