# What pattern is this?



## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

This is my 16 year old appaloosa mare. I am not sure if she was registered, and if she is her papers were never given to the therapy barn that I got her from. 

Anyway, I think she started out life as a chestnut and roaned out, but would love other people's impressions of her color/pattern. She is mostly white skin with a lot of black "splotches" under her white coat, most heavily on her neck, chest, shoulders, and "arm pit" area. She has lesser amounts of black splotches on her back and rump. She also has chestnut colored "flea bites" on her, but they are not nearly as regular or numerous as you would expect to see on a flea bitten gray. 









Sleepy pony. Insides of her ears are still chestnut, and the outsides of her ears look like what a chestnut turning gray would look like at the stage where you could still tell that they are chestnut, but they are turning gray (if that makes any sense)









terrible attempt at getting a confo shot. I would get her to set up square, turn around to get the camera, turn back around and she looked like this. I gave up after the fourth botched shot.









This was for a saddle fit picture, but you can see the black spots really well.










And her interesting leg markings:









And, just because she's cute:


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I am guessing that she is really varnished out. If she was grey there wouldn't be any color left by now I wouldn't think. 

Just for reference, this is my red mare. a progression of her varnishing up to this spring. I need to put some summer pics of her in it.  Phoenix will continue to loose more and more of her color as she ages. (click on it to go to the slide show)


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Hm, that does look a lot like what I am guessing Skye went through. The crest of her neck where the mane grows out still has some chestnut hairs left too, but obviously her mane comes in totally white. What causes the black spots? I find it interesting that they are on her skin but not expressed in her color. 

Sometimes I wonder if she started out life looking like this: http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictur...es-breeders-foals/pictures/appaloosa-0021.jpg


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

The spots on her skin is part of her molting I beleive. Face would have a better opinion on that one. 

As for her leg markings. She has socks.  those eraased part of the color and varnish has erased the top part. Varnish tends to leave color on the "hard" parts of the horse to erase last.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

No varnish marks...she is grey...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Face, her ears and her front legs though... She could have higher whites in the back and a bit of face white. Heck Phoenix varnish marks on her face are disappearing and there is no possiblity of grey in her.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

NdAppy said:


> Face, her ears and her front legs though... She could have higher whites in the back and a bit of face white. Heck Phoenix varnish marks on her face are disappearing and there is no possiblity of grey in her.


I've never seen one color out completely like that that wasn't grey - there is almost always a vestige of varnish on the hip points. Could be though, you never know. I've also never seen one with that much color without mottled skin either. The owner knows I guess, but If I saw him "on the street" I would question him being an Appy at all. He could be PATN-1 with no LP I suppose, but I have never seen one before myself.

I can't seem to put a finger on a picture of Phoenix at the moment. Going to bed shortly, but can you post a picture or PM me one.

To the OP - do you have pictures of this horse when it was younger?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Lordy Phoenix is going to die of shame that you don't remember her! lol 

This summer (I know not a good one, but shows her face)










This spring before the snow started to fully melt -









And for comparison this was her about 5 year ago









And in this one she was three - 










Sorry OP! I hope you don't mind!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

The dark pigment in your horses skin is similar to my sabino paint. He started out as a medicine hat paint with red ears mane and tail. As he got older his mane and body turned mostly white with a red speckled hairs throughout his coat. I know that white horses have pink skin and black speckled pigment in their skin. Look at Peppers chest see the dark spots that is actually his skin not his coat. Pepper gets this coloring from his grandpa another sabino paint called Scenic Jetalito. 


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Also are the insides of your horses ears dark red? Peppers are a dark red its the only place that stays red. Perhaps your horse is a paint like mine. Sabinos like to whiten out and what you described an by the look of your pics it reminds me alot of Pepper.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

If you look up sabino paints Scenic Jetalito usually comes up. Heres a pic of him he was a pretty boy. Im almost certain this is what your horse is.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

NdAppy said:


> Lordy Phoenix is going to die of shame that you don't remember her! lol


Haha...Of course I remember her, but not the small details. She does still have evidence of her varnish marks as most of them do - most notable in front of the point of the hip, just below the stifle, and on the lower ribs.

I don't know - without yet seeing pictures of the OP's horse when it was younger I'm still guessing either grey or non-Appy like a max sabino as Peppy mentioned. But that's just a guess at this point...:lol:


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> The dark pigment in your horses skin is similar to my sabino paint. He started out as a medicine hat paint with red ears mane and tail. As he got older his mane and body turned mostly white with a red speckled hairs throughout his coat. I know that white horses have pink skin and black speckled pigment in their skin. Look at Peppers chest see the dark spots that is actually his skin not his coat. Pepper gets this coloring from his grandpa another sabino paint called Scenic Jetalito.
> 
> 
> __
> ...


Wow they do look a lot a like. She does still have color inside of her ears.

I was thinking that the markings on her skin look a lot like this stud: Messler Paint Horses: Sabino and Paint Horses For Sale, Stud Service, Custom Sterling Silver Conchos, Saddle Silver and Jewelry! only without the color.

I don't have any pictures of her when she was younger. She does have the appaloosa mane though, and not a whole lot of tail either (but more than most)


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Okay, so here is my question, say that she really is a paint that started out chestnut and turned gray, why then does she still have chestnut color on her legs, hocks, crest, and ears? Wouldn't gray erase all of that?


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

QHDragon said:


> Okay, so here is my question, say that she really is a paint that started out chestnut and turned gray, why then does she still have chestnut color on her legs, hocks, crest, and ears? Wouldn't gray erase all of that?


Grey would, but I don't know about the sabino - I don't much about paints.

Many horses other than Appys have sparse manes and tails. If I may ask, if you don't have pictures from when she was younger, and she doesn't have Appy charactceristics or color pattern, what makes you think she is an Appy?


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

QHDragon said:


> Okay, so here is my question, say that she really is a paint that started out chestnut and turned gray, why then does she still have chestnut color on her legs, hocks, crest, and ears? Wouldn't gray erase all of that?


I own an appaloosa I'm pretty darn positive your horse isn't because of the shape of your horses head, and though is does have a short mane and tail its not thin enough. Look at my app see how thing his mane and tail are?










Here are sabino legs similar to yours. They don't lose all their pigment like a gray also grays most of the time have gray skin that ive seen.










Characteristics that Sabino horses "might" have include:

Apron face
Bald face
Belly spots or splashes
Roaning between front legs
Blaze face
Chin spot
High white stockings
Hoof stripes on dark legs
Ink dots
Irregular face markings
Isolated body spots
Jaw or throat spots or splashes
Leg patches
Lightning strikes
Lip spot
Mottled skin
Roan ticking
Roaning
Snip
Star
Stockings
Strip


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

I see varnish on the front legs and on that back hock. What I don't see is mottling on the muzzle.. My varnish roan appy had the same spots on his chest, don't remember if he had them anywhere else. 

Pics of Cheno at age 32 this past May, just before I let him go over the bridge, and one in March.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

here's my appy's tail see how thing it is. appy tails can get long but tail is still thin haired. Your horse has a paints mane and tail to me. Also many people when they see peppers dark spots ask me if he is appy. But they are unsure cuase he has tons of hair. His mane is so thick is spilts in half and he still has plenty of mane.

appy tail!


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

LOL My appy had his granpa(QH)'s tail. Thick and long.. Mane sparse as you can see but not as sparse as some.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Appyt said:


> LOL My appy had his granpa(QH)'s tail. Thick and long.. Mane sparse as you can see but not as sparse as some.


lol i noticed that i think that is the longest tail I've seen on an appy.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

In his prime it would get iceballs on it in winter and drag the ground. I'm nice and cut that off when it happened.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

I was told that she was an appy by the place that I adopted her from (local therapy riding program, she had too much attitude for the non-horse volunteers and handicapped riders), I can only assume that they were told that she was an appy by the person who donated her. I don't have any pictures of her as a younger horse. While I was grooming her today I checked her over super, super close and I could barely make out the barest hint of chestnut hairs left on her elbow and her stifle. I tried to take pictures but my cell phone camera was not cooperating with me. She has a long mane, but there's not much too it, and it gets really thin about at her shoulders:










Both of her eyes are also half blue, half brown. Not sure if that supports appy or paint. She has a lot of white showing around her eyes too.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

OK, the eye does it...Appy. I couldn't see the mottling on the eyelids in the other picures.

Sadly though, that doesn't solve a whole lot...she could be a Pintaloosa and still have the sabino...:lol:

Wacko horses...


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

the black spots are skin not hair color your horse is a max sabino. Sabinos like pepper and your horse are confused for appaloosa's all the time. When I take pepper places people always ask me if he is an appy. here pepper has the same black on his face pepper also has chestnut hairs throughout his coat. if the black spot had black hair growing out I'd agree he was an appy but hes a sabino I'm like 99% certain the more pictures I see I wish you could meet pepper in person so I could show you.

notice the black around his eye and you can see some of his red hairs he still has his winter coat in this picture.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Those black spots are not the same as the spots around an appy's eyes. I am not discounting some sabino or similar unverified as yet influence, but appys do have mottled skin where no dark hair grows..


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

so do sabino's =D


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

just call her whatever you wanna call her i guess lol either way she still your horsey you love


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Appyt said:


> Those black spots are not the same as the spots around an appy's eyes. I am not discounting some sabino or similar unverified as yet influence, but appys do have mottled skin where no dark hair grows..


Black spots like that on the eyelids are quite common in Appys...I have no idea what you are referring to - a black spot on the eylid is a black spot on the eyelid.
Almost all mine have had them. I don't have any close-ups other than this one which I took to record the obvious corneal ulcer...


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

I was referring to mottled skin and black dots on eyelids as opposed to only one large black dot in the corner of the eyelid I viewed.. Yes, I am saying black dots, mottling is an Appy characteristic. Sorry if I didn't explain it well enough.

In my quote I was referring to the post by PBR on her sabino's black spot.. Not the OP's horse.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Appyt said:


> I was referring to mottled skin and black dots on eyelids as opposed to only one large black dot in the corner of the eyelid I viewed.. Yes, I am saying black dots, mottling is an Appy characteristic. Sorry if I didn't explain it well enough.
> 
> In my quote I was referring to the post by PBR on her sabino's black spot.. Not the OP's horse.


Oh...that 'splains it - I thought you were talking about the OP's horse, which had me stumped...:lol:

Personally, I think we should get our 2 X 4's out and make the OP get her horse tested so we know exactly what it is...


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

> Personally, I think we should get our 2 X 4's out and make the OP get her horse tested so we know exactly what it is...


YES YES Lets DO IT.. lol


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Appyt said:


> YES YES Lets DO IT.. lol



EEEP! :shock:

Her dots don't look anything like the spot on the sabino posted. She does kind of look like the sabinos I posted. :lol:

So shall we just call her a sabion appaloosa?


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Hmmmm, I guess if you don't want to get her tested that will just have to do...  prolly pretty close.


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