# Nurse Mare Foals? Why don't people know about it?



## PaintMare

I just recently found out about nurse mare foals. This is a cruel yet well kept secret. I've been riding horses for 7 years and owned horses for over a year. But yet....all this time I did not know about the nurse mare foals. I feel like I need to do something to stop it. When I first read about it last month....I was shocked and horrified. Here is more info for people who do not know what a nurse mare foal is and some videos:

This is from Nurse Mare Foals:


Orphan nurse mare foals are a product of the nurse mare farm industry. Most people associate these babies with PMU (Pregnant Mare Urine) babies and that couldn't be farther from the truth. PMU babies are generated as a result of breeding mares specifically for their urine, as menopause drugs for women are manufactured from hormones found within their urine when they are pregnant. Though they are both generating foals, usually PMU ranches allow the mares to nurse their young. 
Nurse mare farms breed mares to random studs for the purpose of bringing the mares into lactation. The pregnancies they carry are unwanted, the milk is the name of the game. 
Once foaled, these mares are then leased out to other farms to nurse foals other than their own (usually high dollar show or race horses). Their own foals are pulled away from them anywhere between 1 day and 1 week of age. Their foals are then discarded due to the level care they require and the costs associated to raise the orphan foals.

There are many reasons why people think nurse mares are necessary. A mare may die in birth, a mare can immediately return to work as a show or racehorse, she may be transported immediately without having to worry about transporting her foal, or she can be covered (bred) on the foal heat, etc. 
This has been happening for 30+ years, but has remained "underground" so unfortunately, it could be happening right down the street and you probably wouldn't know it. 
Many myths have surrounded this industry, including the most popular; it's a Thoroughbred thing; and its understandable why people have come to that conclusion. In order for a Thoroughbred to be eligible for registry, they must have been a live cover breeding. Though the racing industry is a major player, many different breeds are involved in the practice. So to answer the question: "What is a nurse mare foal?" These foals are unfortunate by-products of a industry in practice of leasing a mare out for her milk. 

The biggest challenge these orphans face is the myth that they are worthless. These foals will grow and mature the same way any other horse would. They just need a chance! Typically these make much calmer, relaxed, and bombproof horses. The bond they share with people is usually unsurpassed. They have been there and seen it all by the time a regular foal is being weaned. If you find you are caring for an orphan foal, whether it is a PMU, nurse mare baby, rejected by its dam, or otherwise, it is very important to remember that each individual foal is different. So just because it works for one foal does not mean it applies to all! Always use common sense when making choices & decisions on your foal's care. Don't be afraid to ask someone with more experience, and always gather all the info you can through all the available sources. Remember that a little hard work & effort really pays off as you see these guys grow into the healthy & beautiful horses they will become.​

And here are some videos about nurse mare foals:​ 




 
favorite video:


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## CLaPorte432

I wouldn't believe everything that you read on the internet. A lot of PETA activist's tend to stretch the truth on a lot of subjects relating to "horse abuse" as well as animal abuse in general.

A healthy mare shouldn't have any problems producing enough milk for her own foal plus another. Therefore I don't get the point of taking the original foal away.


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## Ink

No, it's a real thing. One of my best friends from grade school lived on a thoroughbred breeding farm in Kentucky. They didn't own it, but leased a house on the property and I think her mom worked their part time. Anyway, they had a couple nurse mares cycle through. One mare was just nuts and attacked her foal so they took the foal from her and gave it to the nurse mare. I didn't really think too much of it at the time, but we were told the nurse mare's foal was just raised as an orphan. If I'm not mistaken a friend of theirs adopted one at one point. It's pretty sad for the nurse mare's baby, but these people at least would only use them as a last resort. I'm sure it's expensive to lease one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CLaPorte432

I dont know enough about it to state anything one way or another. They are cute though. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

There are actually a couple of people in the same town I live in who do this for a livelihood. Truth - yes if the mare is needed they pull the foal and hand raise it. They do not discard the foals and they breed very carefully so that the foals will have value. Lie - No these mares (at least the ones I know of) are not bred 'to random stallions'. No their foals are not cosidered worthless. Truth - these folks provide a very necessary service for those whose mares have foaled and for whatever reason, rejection, lack of lactation, fescue poisoning, death, cannot nurse their own foals. 

I'm not saying that the whole story is untrue, but speaking for the folks I know, it is not.


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## Tianimalz

Someone hand me a checkbook.

Because I'm about to adopt a crap load of adorable baby horsies :l


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## Delfina

Baby goats and baby calves are taken away from their moms in the dairy industry.

The babies are run through the auction in hopes of someone spending a few $$ and hand raising them or they're sold/given away on Craigslist.

The baby goats/calves are just as cute as the baby horses......


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## WalnutPixie

Every time I think about nurse mare foals I get so sad! It really is a shame, but then so are many other things that people do with horses.

My horse shares a pasture with two nurse mare colts that our BO adopted from Last Chance Corral. They are wonderful guys and are very, very lucky too. I understand that on top of the other challenges these foals face, they are also typically sickly from not having access to mare's milk. It takes a ton of work to keep one going in the beginning.

I've got to say that, tragedy aside, that movie of all the babies running around together is pretty adorable.


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## Gremmy

I don't know much about the industry at all, but I'm hearing more and more about embryo transfer being done on high dollar show/race horses - if this trend continues won't it over time eliminate this issue? No doubt having access to a nurse mare if a foal is rejected is always handy, but my understanding is that the main factor fuelling the industry is the desire to keep high dollar mares performing? Embryo transfer allows the mare to keep doing so without even being interrupted by pregnancy, and only 1 high value foal comes out of the deal.


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## PaintMare

Gremmy said:


> I don't know much about the industry at all, but I'm hearing more and more about embryo transfer being done on high dollar show/race horses - if this trend continues won't it over time eliminate this issue? No doubt having access to a nurse mare if a foal is rejected is always handy, but my understanding is that the main factor fuelling the industry is the desire to keep high dollar mares performing? Embryo transfer allows the mare to keep doing so without even being interrupted by pregnancy, and only 1 high value foal comes out of the deal.


 
But the jockey club recovers live cover...so I don't think they would allow embryo transfer.


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## Gremmy

That's a good point. I'd said "race horses" without really thinking, might have been high dollar thoroughbreds but can't be within the racing industry; I looked it up and yeah, it's a no-no withe Jockey Club, despite the fact that the intended dam can be bred live cover - it's the growing embryo that's transferred afterall. I don't know their reasoning behind not allowing things like ET and AI so there could very well be a good explanation, but it seems silly to me when we can confirm lineage with DNA testing these days. Maybe in time they will allow it, sounds like a win-win situation to me.


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## Chiilaa

I have to say, I agree with previous posters who say to take this with a grain of salt. Mammals have this amazing knack of producing enough milk for however many babies they need to feed. It's called supply and demand. If the babies nurse more, the mother starts producing more milk. This happens with all mammals - and every mother mammal will go through this! Even a single foal will have "growth spurts" where they will nurse very frequently. This is a biological response that is solely to cause the mare to produce more milk to meet the foal's needs.


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## PaintMare

Chiilaa said:


> I have to say, I agree with previous posters who say to take this with a grain of salt. Mammals have this amazing knack of producing enough milk for however many babies they need to feed. It's called supply and demand. If the babies nurse more, the mother starts producing more milk. This happens with all mammals - and every mother mammal will go through this! Even a single foal will have "growth spurts" where they will nurse very frequently. This is a biological response that is solely to cause the mare to produce more milk to meet the foal's needs.


 
But even if the momma could produce milk for more two or more babies it still wouldn't work out. The Jockey Club does not usually want their race foals to travel anywhere in a trailer with the mom since it is to dangerous. And since the dam has others jobs...she wouldn't be aloud to take care of her foal. So that is another reason they bring in the "second" mother and that creates the nurse mare foal problem. Theres more info on this website: Last Chance Corral :: Ohio Horse and Foal Rescue - Available Foals


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## MisssMarie

My aunts mare died in birth. We had another mare who had foaled about the same time, and she nursed both foals. When/if we noticed her struggling to produce enough milk, we helped and fed the foals goats milk as well
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## wyominggrandma

Thoroughbreds are not allowed to have ET, it has to be live cover. 
I have helped with ET at the clinic I work at, quite interesting to see how the egg is flushed out of the mare and put in with another one. It is done with show horses, alot. I think that beautiful reining mare that just died has other foals because of ET's. I imagine her owner is very very happy that she has that mare's bloodlines to carry one with. I have seen nurse mares used and usually , at least the ones I have been involved with are just given the second foal and gets to keep her foal.
Internet and the humaniacs who use it spend their days trying to make a simple thing bad. Nurse mares are needed, and I am sure some foals are not treated well, but I bet the majority are treated just fine and raised by hand.


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## PaintMare

wyominggrandma said:


> Thoroughbreds are not allowed to have ET, it has to be live cover.
> I have helped with ET at the clinic I work at, quite interesting to see how the egg is flushed out of the mare and put in with another one. It is done with show horses, alot. I think that beautiful reining mare that just died has other foals because of ET's. I imagine her owner is very very happy that she has that mare's bloodlines to carry one with. I have seen nurse mares used and usually , at least the ones I have been involved with are just given the second foal and gets to keep her foal.
> Internet and the humaniacs who use it spend their days trying to make a simple thing bad. Nurse mares are needed, and I am sure some foals are not treated well, but I bet the majority are treated just fine and raised by hand.


 
Nurse mares can be needed in helping an orphan foal live and become healthy. So there is a time and a place for the need of nurse mares. But using them for healthy race tb foals that already have a mother is not the right time. It is not fair to the nurse mare's real baby. And its not that the nurse mare foals are just "not treated well".....they are killed. They do not get to live.....they are born to die. Unless someone comes along and rescues them....but there are very few people that do that. There are 100s and 100s of nurse mare foals that are bred for the sole purpose of getting the mother to come into milk for a tb race foal....and those 100s and 100s of the nurse mare's actual foal that the mare gave birth to....die. every year.


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## Ink

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the majority of the foals aren't just killed after birth. And what "other jobs" are you referring to in regards to the TB broodmares? Mares are not bred while they're still being raced. There wouldn't be any way to keep them in racing condition while they were pregnant. Yeah, a lot of times they'll re-breed the mare when she comes into her foal heat, but that typically doesn't require the existing foal to be given to a nurse mare. The only time I've heard of a foal going to a nurse mare while it still had a healthy living mother was if the dam rejected the foal completely. 

I don't know if you've been around a TB breeding farm, but after they're retired for breeding, the brood mare's only job is to make and raise babies. Where are you getting your information from? Not everything you read online is true.


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## Cat

CLaPorte432 said:


> I wouldn't believe everything that you read on the internet. A lot of PETA activist's tend to stretch the truth on a lot of subjects relating to "horse abuse" as well as animal abuse in general.


Nursemare foals aren't a stretch of the truth - they are real and there are quite a few farms of them out there. I have one horse that came from a nursemare farm in my pasture. 

Unfortunately they have a high mortality rate because not all of the farms allow the foal to have colostrum before being pulled (though I have heard many of the farms are getting better about this). We lost our first one due to foal pneumonia - believed to be caused by not allowed to have the colostrum before being pulled. The rescue lost almost the whole lot of foals from that specific nursemare farm but had better luck with foals from other farms. Our second replacement foal also had the pneumonia but survived. He will be 7 this spring.


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## Tapperjockey

Gremmy said:


> That's a good point. I'd said "race horses" without really thinking, might have been high dollar thoroughbreds but can't be within the racing industry; I looked it up and yeah, it's a no-no withe Jockey Club, despite the fact that the intended dam can be bred live cover - it's the growing embryo that's transferred afterall. I don't know their reasoning behind not allowing things like ET and AI so there could very well be a good explanation, but it seems silly to me when we can confirm lineage with DNA testing these days. Maybe in time they will allow it, sounds like a win-win situation to me.


They won't. The reason has nothing to do with genetics, nor horses. 

It's $$$$$. They make a bundle off of mare owners who send the mares to them to be foaled out/bred back, etc (farms do). It's a huge industry in many states. IF they went to AI, the economy in a few states would be crushed.


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## PaintMare

Ink said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure the majority of the foals aren't just killed after birth. And what "other jobs" are you referring to in regards to the TB broodmares? Mares are not bred while they're still being raced. There wouldn't be any way to keep them in racing condition while they were pregnant. Yeah, a lot of times they'll re-breed the mare when she comes into her foal heat, but that typically doesn't require the existing foal to be given to a nurse mare. The only time I've heard of a foal going to a nurse mare while it still had a healthy living mother was if the dam rejected the foal completely.
> 
> I don't know if you've been around a TB breeding farm, but after they're retired for breeding, the brood mare's only job is to make and raise babies. Where are you getting your information from? Not everything you read online is true.


 
The TB broodmare is usually bred directly after she gives birth to her foal. Which is considered "her job" to be bred and have tb foals. So once the foal is born they take the broodmare away from the foal to be bred again. This leaves the foal without its mother and without milk. Which would mean a nurse mare would be needed to provide the foal with milk. Which leaves the nurse mare's foal without a mother and without milk...usually left to die....unless someone comes a long and rescues the foal.

Also the Jockey Club deems it to dangerous to put newborn foals in a trailer with the mother so they are seperated IF the broodmare must be trailered somewhere. This also leaves the foal without a mother and in need of milk. Which would mean a nurse mare would be brought in. Which leaves the nurse mare's foal without a mother...and usually left to die....unless the foal is rescued.


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## Ink

Again, from my experience with TB breeding, I have never heard of a foal being given to a nurse mare so the mother can be re-bred. That's a bit extreme for a mare that's only going to be gone for a few hours or at most a day in most cases. 

The farm my friend lived on rebred their mares after they foaled. The mares all had to be sent out for breeding as the farm didn't own any studs. None of their babies were given to a nurse mare, except the one that was rejected by its mother.


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## mls

CLaPorte432 said:


> A healthy mare shouldn't have any problems producing enough milk for her own foal plus another. Therefore I don't get the point of taking the original foal away.


Most times the nurse mares are sent to live where the foal was born. If someone is going to spend that kind of money to 'rent' a nurse mare, they are not going to want to risk the mare hurting the oprhan foal in favor of their own.

Orphan foals that are raised together tend to have less social issues than one raised alone.

As was mentioned, it's done in the dairy industry all the time. We just purchased 5 'bucket' babies at the sales barn last weerk. One calf is with a beef cow that lost her calf and the other four are in hutches to be raised for sale.


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## PaintCowgirl

CLaPorte432 said:


> I wouldn't believe everything that you read on the internet. A lot of PETA activist's tend to stretch the truth on a lot of subjects relating to "horse abuse" as well as animal abuse in general.
> 
> A healthy mare shouldn't have any problems producing enough milk for her own foal plus another. Therefore I don't get the point of taking the original foal away.


 
i live in Kentucky where the horse racing industry is PRIME. trust me, its done by the dozens on the big farms. i used to manage a couple stallion stables on one of the biggest racing farms in the state. its huge in the racing industry so they can get the mare right back to bred again. people list nurse mares for rent on craigslist its so prominent.


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## Tapperjockey

PaintMare said:


> The TB broodmare is usually bred directly after she gives birth to her foal. Which is considered "her job" to be bred and have tb foals. So once the foal is born they take the broodmare away from the foal to be bred again. This leaves the foal without its mother and without milk. Which would mean a nurse mare would be needed to provide the foal with milk. Which leaves the nurse mare's foal without a mother and without milk...usually left to die....unless someone comes a long and rescues the foal.
> 
> Also the Jockey Club deems it to dangerous to put newborn foals in a trailer with the mother so they are seperated IF the broodmare must be trailered somewhere. This also leaves the foal without a mother and in need of milk. Which would mean a nurse mare would be brought in. Which leaves the nurse mare's foal without a mother...and usually left to die....unless the foal is rescued.



How does the JC deem it dangerous? I've never heard the jockey club have a position on that. Some farms, who's owners may be JC members, may find it dangerous.. But I've never heard that is an official opinion of the registry. 

There are thousands of mares in KY.. it stands to reason that some, for whatever reason, will not be able to nurse their own foal, and that nurse mares would be used, as do colostrom banks and a whole slew of other things. 

I do know of one rescue who says that they are rescuing NM foals. In actuality they are going to local auctions and buying weanlings - 2 yos, and then adopting them out.. saying they are NM foals. 

There are sleazes in every industry.


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## Cat

Tapperjockey said:


> I do know of one rescue who says that they are rescuing NM foals. In actuality they are going to local auctions and buying weanlings - 2 yos, and then adopting them out.. saying they are NM foals.
> 
> There are sleazes in every industry.


Are you sure they aren't claiming them to be PMU instead? Not sure how they claim them to be nursemare when most nursemare foals are adopted out well before they are weaned. Usually a couple days to a couple months depending on how long they have been at the rescue. Anyone who is adopting out only weaned foals and beyond and claiming they are nursemare foals should send a red flag up to anyone who knows anything about them. 

Ink - I know you claim to be in the racing industry but nursemares are used quite a bit here in Kentucky for both TB racing and Standarbred racing. Of course not all farms use them but enough do that make the business lucrative.


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## MisssMarie

Where do you adopt nursemare foals from?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## livestoride

I have had my eye on the LCC in Ohio for the last year. There were many, many times I was tempting to jump in the truck and head out there to pick up a foal during the 2011 season. I currently board though so it just wouldn't work. As soon as we buy our own farm in the next few years it will be the first thing I do come Spring. They are adorable and can grow up to make wonderful horses.


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## Ink

Lol I never claimed to be involved in the racing industry. I said I grew up in KY and had some firsthand exposure to a breeding farm through a friend of mine. And granted it's been a long time, but from what I saw, nurse mares were used pretty sparingly only when something prevented the foal from nursing from it's own mother. 

I know it's common practice to bring them in. I wasn't trying to argue otherwise, but I DO think it's not as common as PaintMare was implying for foals with healthy accepting mothers to be handed over to nurse mares.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ink

Although I can see how it might happen more at the bigger operations if they send a mare out of state for her next covering. 

Either way it's pretty silly to be arguing the exact frequency nurse mares are being used. Let's just say it happens. We can all be sad and outraged for the discarded nurse mare babies, but I honestly don't see the practice dying out any time soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tapperjockey

Cat said:


> Are you sure they aren't claiming them to be PMU instead? Not sure how they claim them to be nursemare when most nursemare foals are adopted out well before they are weaned. Usually a couple days to a couple months depending on how long they have been at the rescue. Anyone who is adopting out only weaned foals and beyond and claiming they are nursemare foals should send a red flag up to anyone who knows anything about them.


Funny you should mention that.. they used to "rescue" PMU foals. But those aren't as "trendy" now (or as common since many of the farms lost contracts) ... so now it's "Nursemare foals". They tell people they bottle/bucket raise them, and have had them XX amount of months/years.. bc they were so sick, they can't adopt them out right away. It's a great line. Totally false, but I can't police the world .. and sadly people buy it hook line and sinker.


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## sierrams1123

real or fake....look at all those cute babies!! Bless whomever is caring for all of those young ones.


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## Palomine

I worked with TB's 8 years, broodmare operation. The mares have to foal in the state in which they were bred, for the foals to be eligible for the breeder's monies, (think that is what they called it). If your mare was bred in KY, or FL in our case, you trailered the mares down to FL well before they foaled, they were then bred back and you went back and got them in a couple of months. Foals stayed with their mothers, on their mothers.

Broodmares were just that, broodies. Didn't go back to racing. There might have been an odd one that did, but by and large no. 

And we hauled mares/foals just fine, nothing against it mandated by the JC. Mares were taken by the barns that were providing mare care, to the farm where stallions were, and teased, bred if in, and then taken back to other farm. They generally stayed down there 3-4 months, from time mare in foal was hauled, to when I went back and brought them home.

Don't doubt that some of this is going on, but don't know about the numbers reported? But do know one thing, if a human can make money of the misery of a living creature? They will do it.

And most mares will NOT take another foal if they have their own. It is a rare one that will. And nursing two usually means one doesn't get enough to make them really thrifty, this is why it is such a bad thing when twins are born, and one is usually smaller/doesn't do as well.


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## PaintMare

Cat said:


> Are you sure they aren't claiming them to be PMU instead? Not sure how they claim them to be nursemare when most nursemare foals are adopted out well before they are weaned. Usually a couple days to a couple months depending on how long they have been at the rescue. Anyone who is adopting out only weaned foals and beyond and claiming they are nursemare foals should send a red flag up to anyone who knows anything about them.
> 
> Ink - I know you claim to be in the racing industry but nursemares are used quite a bit here in Kentucky for both TB racing and Standarbred racing. Of course not all farms use them but enough do that make the business lucrative.


I agree....it was probably PMU foals. Because when you buy PMU foals they are always weaned....nurse mare foals are not used weaned when you adopt them from rescues....unless you adopt them late. But they usually cannot rescue more nurse mare foals until they adopt out the ones they already have.


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## PaintMare

MisssMarie said:


> Where do you adopt nursemare foals from?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
There are few places that rescue nurse mare foals. But one very well known nurse mare rescue farm is Last Chance Corral :: Ohio Horse and Foal Rescue - Available Foals

And they have nurse mare foals available for adoption now!


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## PaintMare

Ink said:


> Although I can see how it might happen more at the bigger operations if they send a mare out of state for her next covering.
> 
> Either way it's pretty silly to be arguing the exact frequency nurse mares are being used. Let's just say it happens. We can all be sad and outraged for the discarded nurse mare babies, but I honestly don't see the practice dying out any time soon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Your right...it probably won't die out anytime soon. But if we can get the word out about nurse mare foals then maybe more people would consider adopting a nurse mare foal....if they have the money/time/experience. Or maybe they would consider donating time/money to rescues that adopt nurse mare foals. Either way....it will help. It might not save every single nurse mare foal's life but it will save some of them. And thats better then nothing!


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## lacyloo

Must...Adopt...Cute...Foal... lol 

I deal with Bull calves that the dairy industry dumps. Anything from 1- 10 days old. Putting money into these calves is a huge risk. Many did not receive enough colostrum and end of very sick no matter how hard you try. Not to mention the risk of Phenomia. I cant count the calves I have euthanized that went down hill fast. 

In my opinion, I would never buy one of those foals. Its just not worth it money wise nor the heartbreak if they crash. To me, with any animal there should be a _minimum_ of 10 days before they are pulled.


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## mls

lacyloo said:


> To me, with any animal there should be a _minimum_ of 10 days before they are pulled.


10 days of a calf on a dairy cow? Add up those days when that production is supposed to go back in the bulk tank. That is a LOT of money to those poor farmers. It's not the full 10 days as the first few are milked into a bucket and usually fed to the calves but it's still several hundreds of pounds of milk. Add in the fact the cow may not let down her milk after she is used to being nursed and you can end up with mastitis.

Sorry, that is never going to happen in the dairy industry!


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## lacyloo

Yes I know this. I just stated that in a "Perfect world" we wouldn't HAVE to pull the calves so fast.


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