# Stud to big for my mare?



## Dani9192 (Jan 2, 2010)

My mare is 4, 14.3hh and i'm going to wait a WHILE to breed her. But i'm impatient when it comes to my questions lol
I'm wanting to add some height and bigger bone structure to her foal, with a sport horse build, and have a good chance of it coming out as a paint.

So.. i was window shopping, and i found this beautiful warmblood, 17hh with a gypsy coloring, and great conformation! He's exactly what i'm looking for and i thought the chance was too good to pass up to at least contact the owner. 

Then I go to the barn and i'm all exited and wound up about my horses future mate, and i'm telling this girl about him, and she starts shooting me down saying "you have to have a birthing stall, he's way to big, you'll injure her, what are you going to do with a baby anyways?!, blah, blah, blah." but anyways i have a birthing stall in mind, and i have big plans for her future offspring  BUT is he too big?? will it hurt her?? i wouldn't want to risk harming her for anything.


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## Sea To Sky (Nov 29, 2009)

im no expert on breeding though if she is a maiden mare maybe something smaller would be a bit better.. though have a talk to the stud owner =D


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

You could always do artificial insemination... though i wonder if a colt form such a big guy could be too big for her... Never really though about it... I am interested to hear more responses.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

It does depend on the mare and stud. I've talked to someone who had an Ardennis x Shetland and the mare and foal survived. I've seen a Dartmoor x Andalusian foal for sale. Personally I'd rather use a similar size stud to avoid the risk of her carrying a foal that is too big for her to give birth easily but then I'm not a breeder so I'm not sure if it would hurt her. Best talking to the owner really.


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

there should,ent be any problem


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I don't think there should be a problem either. I would like to know more about the stud, though, and what kind of crosses he has produced on what kind of mares. In any case, on whatever stud I chose, I would definitely go AI .


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## Dani9192 (Jan 2, 2010)

yeah i would definitely have to do ai he's all the way in oregon! and ill put up some pics of him, he might actually be shorter than i thought i think i looked at his clydsale buddy's info  i'll see what info i can get on the foals


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## Dani9192 (Jan 2, 2010)

He's so gorgeous and he's a beautiful mover if you watch his video, and he is 17hh. see why i want it to be him though?


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

Wow he is GORGEOUS!!!


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

He may have grown since that photo, but compared to his handler (who is standing downhill from him and stooping forward a bit) he doesn't look that tall in the photo you posted, unless she is very tall. 17 hands is 5' 8" at the withers. 

I went and looked a the videos they have posted and they are just short clips, and all are just of him loose as a 2 year old, and are in slow motion. They have a couple photos of him under saddle on his page-- do you know if they have a current video of him with a handler, or better yet working under saddle and not in slow motion? (Sorry, slow motion just bugs me, as it can make everything look "fancier"-- not saying he isn't a good moving horse, I would just like to see some of his real natural movement! LOL)

Regardless, he has some nice qualities, and size-wise the difference is probably not dangerous for breeding-- but its best to have your mare vet-checked by an experienced reproductive vet before breeding to make sure everything is OK and ready to go with her, and also to ask an experienced repro vet about the size difference.


Your mare and this stallion are both attractive. You said you wanted to breed for more bone and height with a sport type build--But with the stallion and your mare being different sizes and different types (the stallion is a draft cross sired by a Clydesdale and out of a TB/arab/paint cross with an upright build, higher set neck, and your mare is QH type with a more level stock horse build), it might be tough to predict what traits and movement the foal would inherit from each parent, given the "mix". 

It would be great if they had foals by him from more QH-type mares to compare to, but I don't see any on their website-- they are out of Warmblood and TB mares, and they are all still babies since he is a young stallion, so assessing adult height isn't possible yet.

You mentioned wanting a "paint"-- Do you want a registerable foal? The foal would not be eligible to be registered as Paint (registered Paint, QH, TB lineage only) or Pinto (no draft within 4 generations.). The website mentions that they have the stallion registered AWS and are applying for the NASDHA-- do you know if a foal from your mare would be eligible for either of those associations?


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Typically it is the size of the mares uterus that determines the size of the foal. I have bred 2 smaller horses under 14 hands and have had a large foal and a horse that the parents were under 14 hands and the baby grew to 15.3
I also have a sport horse out of 13.2 hand mare 16 hand sire and the filly may mature to 15.1


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## Dani9192 (Jan 2, 2010)

Eastowest said:


> He may have grown since that photo, but compared to his handler (who is standing downhill from him and stooping forward a bit) he doesn't look that tall in the photo you posted, unless she is very tall. 17 hands is 5' 8" at the withers.
> 
> I went and looked a the videos they have posted and they are just short clips, and all are just of him loose as a 2 year old, and are in slow motion. They have a couple photos of him under saddle on his page-- do you know if they have a current video of him with a handler, or better yet working under saddle and not in slow motion? (Sorry, slow motion just bugs me, as it can make everything look "fancier"-- not saying he isn't a good moving horse, I would just like to see some of his real natural movement! LOL)
> 
> ...


She's not registered but i'm planning to register her pinto, possibly if i looked up her breeding i could find out if her foal will meet the requirements to get her registered AWS, or NADHA. how would i find that out?


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

im not sure, even with artificial semination the foal may be too big fer her to carry.
my horse is 15hh and is from a 16.2hh sire, that means a mare smaller than 15hh Right? i know maybe not but it makes sense...
anyway he turned out ok and his dam is still breeding (11 years on)


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Eastowest said:


> I went and looked a the videos they have posted and they are just short clips, and all are just of him loose as a 2 year old, and are in slow motion. They have a couple photos of him under saddle on his page-- do you know if they have a current video of him with a handler, or better yet working under saddle and not in slow motion? (Sorry, slow motion just bugs me, as it can make everything look "fancier"-- not saying he isn't a good moving horse, I would just like to see some of his real natural movement! LOL)
> 
> You mentioned wanting a "paint"-- Do you want a registerable foal? The foal would not be eligible to be registered as Paint (registered Paint, QH, TB lineage only) or Pinto (no draft within 4 generations.). The website mentions that they have the stallion registered AWS and are applying for the NASDHA-- do you know if a foal from your mare would be eligible for either of those associations?


 
The site said he is QUALIFIED to be AWS....nothing about being registered at all. Also even if he were to BE registered he has NO stallion approval with them.

People mistake registration with approval and they are two totally different things. This stallion does not seem to have either. The other registry is still pending.

UNTIL he is at least registered he is NOT an American Warmblood and will NEVER be a warmblood in what we typically consider as warmbloods ( hannovarians,oldenburgs...etc.) no matterv how nice he may look.

If you want a sport horse I would not be breeding to him unless your mare is of a very fine boned type and even then there is no guarantee either. In your case I would not be breeding to any stallion without seeing what they can produce from a variety of mares. If they have no offspring...pass them by for now.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

speedy da fish said:


> im not sure, even with artificial semination the foal may be too big fer her to carry.
> my horse is 15hh and is from a 16.2hh sire, that means a mare smaller than 15hh Right? i know maybe not but it makes sense...
> anyway he turned out ok and his dam is still breeding (11 years on)


Size rarely matters. The foal will develop normally in utero and then do it's growing when it hits the ground. A mare having a foal that's to big is rarely (if ever) caused by the of the stallion, it has to do with how her uterus is doing the controlling and could happen just as easily in size matching parents.

My 14hh Arabian mare was artifically inseminated from a 17hh Hanoverian stud that was built like a tank. She had zero issues. Unfortunately (possibly because nobody realized she was pregnant, long story) the foal only matured to about 14.3hh as an adult, which is the same size as my purebred Arabian filly out of the same mare.

I've known plenty of people who've breed small pony size mares to much larger stallions. Depending on size, live cover may be an issue if the stallion is large enough to cause the mare injury with his weight, but with artifical insemination I wouldn't worry about a few hands difference. May want to re-think trying to inseminate a Miniature with Shire semen, but again, not sure how that would affect.


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

Spyder said:


> The site said he is QUALIFIED to be AWS....nothing about being registered at all. Also even if he were to BE registered he has NO stallion approval with them.
> 
> People mistake registration with approval and they are two totally different things. This stallion does not seem to have either. The other registry is still pending.
> 
> ...


the stallion is what he is with or without papers he is the same horse


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

nature takes care of its own,if a 6ft 5inch man was covering a 5ft woman you wouldent expect her to have problems so why would the mare


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>> the stallion is what he is with or without papers he is the same horse _

That may be true, but depending on what the mare owner wants to do with the foal, breeding to an unregistered stallion offers less opportunities for his resulting foals' futures, both in activites and marketing.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

A university AI'd some shetland mares with draft horse semen and all the foals were born alive and well. horses are unique in that the mare will abort a colt that is getting to big for her to handle long before it reaches the end of gestation. There is really not that big of a difference between the horses anyway. I would also not worry about live cover. Your mare is plenty big enough to handle what little pressure a stallion puts on a mare.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

jimmy said:


> nature takes care of its own,if a 6ft 5inch man was covering a 5ft woman you wouldent expect her to have problems so why would the mare


Now Jimmy,
Here in the states we do not call it covering when a man and a woman get down to business:lol:


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> Now Jimmy,
> Here in the states we do not call it covering when a man and a woman get down to business:lol:


lol we don,t here really,i think my mind was running on 2 levels but my finger could only type on one


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

Eastowest said:


> _>>>> the stallion is what he is with or without papers he is the same horse _
> 
> That may be true, but depending on what the mare owner wants to do with the foal, breeding to an unregistered stallion offers less opportunities for his resulting foals' futures, both in activites and marketing.


 yes that makes sense from that point


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

jimmy said:


> the stallion is what he is with or without papers he is the same horse


 
Yes and what you have is a stallion that in the OWNERS mind only, is stallion worthy.

When I have to put MY strallion through inspection and performance testing to verify my belief that he is in fact stud worthy I have every right to be annoyed at people being taken by those that feel that "qualified to be registed" (and that does not even go that extra step and get approval) is good enough to lure some unsuspecting mare owner into thinking that it is better than it is.

It is a case of put up or shut up as far as putting in the effort to get the stallion fully approved. The horse is no warmblood by any stretch of the imagination. It is simply an unregistered draft cross.

And Eastowest is right, less opportunities for the resultant foal.


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## Dani9192 (Jan 2, 2010)

I don't plan to do anything major with it anyways, just open showing, since my mare is unregistered but i think they would make a beautiful foal, and judging by his offspring it will come out with good color, he seems to have pretty good confo, and my mare does as well. That's all I want is for it to have good conformation and a little height, and color but I don't care that much about that. And that seems like what I'd be getting with him


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

go for it if the horse suits you dani,and i hope the foals lucky for you


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## rockaway (Jan 14, 2010)

HI that stud is perfect ( at least from my limited point of view) . I love the way he looks. I am being nosey but where did people see a video of him. I would love to see it.


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## Dani9192 (Jan 2, 2010)

SW Shiloh

thanks for your help everybody


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