# Self defense on the trail



## Silvera

Very cool video!! I'm really glad you posted it...I have never really thought about what I would do if someone threatend me on a trail and I ride by myself all the time.


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## Mingiz

Great info.....:wink:


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## franknbeans

Great info-thanks!


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## Indyhorse

Some great ideas there. I have never been threatened on a trail, but in today's world, it's a good idea to keep in mind the possibility. Thanks for posting!


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## lilkitty90

wow neat video! i have been threatened on a trail before but not to be attacked, we were crossing some land and (it was not this guys land and we DID have permission to be there) it was me, my sister, her friend, and I. we were riding through and then when we came back through he had parked his huge tractor on the trail so we couldn't get back out, we had to cross through some huge thorns and briars, and he came up to us cursing, in front of the 2 kids (10 yr old, and 8 yr old) threatening us and telling us he would shoot at us and stuff if he caught us back there again, and that he would call the cops (even though it wasn't his land) ahhh the people these days... 

but if someone tried to attack me like in the ^^ above video... i would be freaked and i have no idea what my horse would do lol just cluck and squeeze and hope my training was enough to send her off and away in a lope!


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## kitten_Val

I believe he's local - Scott Hansen. About Scot Hansen He gives demonstrations in person at the Expos every year. Also I've heard about his clinics, but never had a chance to attend one. He's a fun guy.


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## horsea

Wow, what a great video! Thank you for posting this!


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## gratifite

This is great info to have. I ride out and about by myself frequently, and I've never considered the thought anyone would attack while I was mounted!


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## iridehorses

That was a good "heads up" reminder that there is danger on the trails and it isn't always from your horse. Thanks.


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## equiniphile

Great video, very informative. I think young trail riders especially should practice these things before they ever go out on trail. Two thumbs up!


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## Equus_girl

That is awesome information!! I'm going to practice those things!


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## A knack for horses

I never thought someone would attack me while on a horse, let alone be able to pull me off. Great advice. I'll have to practice it sometime.


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## ridergirl23

Wow i never even thought about being attacked on the trail! 
Rena would kick his butt xD 
He didnt really think about if you had a knife (which maybe its only me that carries onee of those on the trail, lol) going for my knife would be my first reaction xD But i guess the only think you could really do is jab at his hand.... lol


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## Poco1220

I had one time I was riding double with my son and ha a gut feeling a man approaching us had less than the best intentions. Deciding not to risk it I wrapped one arm tightly around my son, the other on the saddle horn, pointed Poco straight thru the gap around the man and let him go. The guy never woulda stood a chance we were GONE. Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Juniper

great video, thanks for posting


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## Hunterjumper7654

Really cool video, I've never been threated on the trail but I had a soccer mom call the cops on my friend and I because we were riding to close to her kids on are riding path. Well the horse I was riding has horrid issue's with people coming up to her on the trail, She sweats and freaks out. Lets just say it was an interesting situation when we were surrounded by cop cars at night and the officers came down the bank to us at night my horse was not having any of it. haha let just say I told them to let my horse know they were there or my horse was going to freak. Sorry random story.


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## mliponoga

I've had a deer hunter come up to me with a gun (out of season mind you) and start threatening us about calling the cops and how he first thought the horses were deer, blah blah blah. That's probably the most dangerous time to be riding is during hunting season. Those deer hunters usually are a little drunk to start out with and carrying weapons and then you go and tick them off by riding past their hunting grounds....but I carry a knife on the trail and try to stay off private property unless I've been given permission. Luckily I live in such a small town though most of the people are nice and just stop and talk to us.


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## CopperPennyPony

I never ride alone unless its right on the property I ride on. And if a man approached my horse in a threatening manner we would be so gone. He was abused by men so I wouldn't have to ask him twice to get the heck outta dodge! Now my friend's horse Rascal loves people so that wouldn't work as well.


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## mliponoga

Another good self defense we use is bringing our dogs, we have a german shepherd, pitbull, and Doberman Pinscher. Doubt we'd have any concerns


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## Juniper

ya, pretty sure you have it covered!


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## Mickey4793

You can only hope the attacker isn't yielding a gun like a lot of people these days, but great video.

I would just charge off in a gallop [take the guy on a date, according to the video] and pray he can't run as fast as my ex boyfriend who could out run my horse, haha.


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## HorseNancy

I only ride with friends and on days when the area has more people around than usual. If trouble arose I could only hope in my horses legs to get us away pdq!


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## africanstardust

Thanks for posting this! I just started riding out on my own and it's good to keep these things in mind. Although, Fire is so keen to gallop anyway that I'm sure I wouldn't have much trouble just racing off


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## countmystrides

that's scary ..


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## JekkaLynn

The only problem with taking them for a ride is if someone like me attached you. I volunteered with a therapy riding group for years helping hold the kids on at a trot and sometimes a horse gets spooked and takes off at a canter. A handful of mane or grabbing the pommel and holding a stirrup and a person can keep up with a cantering horse long enough to snag a reign and spin it towards around themselves if they know how.


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## JekkaLynn

Indy gets nasty when people try to get in her face when she is being ridden unless I tell her to chill or she knows the person so when we finally are fit enough to trailride together i think we will be good. Also I have pretty good aim with a crop.


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## smrobs

That's a great video. IMHO, nobody can ever know too much about self defense in every situation, especially women. I am a thorough believer in taking rape-defense classes and at least some of any form of martial art where they teach you how to punch without breaking your hand and where are the best places to kick (balls aren't always the best choice, especially if the attacker is high on dope).


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## dedebird

haha this is very useful >3< i take jujitsu classes which is somewhat like karate in fact the best place to kick normally is the knees ;D AIM FOR THE KNEES


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## africanstardust

My mom and I took a rape defense class, which was great. At the end, we had a "test" in which the two police officers who were teaching it got all dressed up in safety gear so we could beat them up, and "attacked" us from behind. I was surprised to see, being a fairly timid person, how my survival instinct kicked in even though I knew it wasn't real. That coupled with what they'd taught us was very effective even with two of them. I think it's a great idea to take some kind of class at least once a year so it stays fresh.


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## smrobs

Yes indeed. I wish I could find some martial arts classes around here but the closest ones are about 45 miles away. Way too far to drive 3 or more days a week.


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## franknbeans

I feel pretty fortunate to have had the Navy SEAL in my life-invaluable knowledge. Also fortunate (or not, depending on the day....) to have super sensitive observant horses. I swear they hear things miles away, and I have learned to watch them and pay attention! Sharpen your other senses..I think when we are out on a trail, lolling along, chatting with friends we are probably the most vulnerable. Not paying attention, horses not as keen (they tend to rely on each other more)...just all ads up, IMO. My new guy hasn't proven himself yet, but the old guy-totally., I listen to him. If he says not to go, we don't. We find another way. He has yet to be wrong.


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## JekkaLynn

My dad encouraged us girls to wrestle with our brothers when we were younger. One day someone he knew grumbled that it wasn't very lady like and they would never let their daughters do that. He replied something along the lines of. "Well what will they do if some creep ever grabs them, faint or scream? Because it is lady like?"
When my brother got older he took some self defense classes and when he got home everynight he took me and showed me how to do the moves. 
When i got older my boyfriend was super protective until he saw me put some carnival guy who grabbed my friends arm on the ground then he started relaxing a bit about me going places without him.


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## mliponoga

^^^ :lol: About the carnival guy...


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## VelvetsAB

_Great post!_

_mliponoga-Not all hunters are like that, so it isn't fair to group them together. I have hunted, but we had a "dry" camp and we never dreamed of having alcohol there. Yes, it sucks when what you were trying to get is spooked off, but thats part of hunting. If you trail ride in an area that is hunted in, you are better off either a)wearing safety colours of red/orange/yellow or wear something else bright coloured like lime or neons. b) put safety colours on your horse to help ensure it isnt mistaken for a deer/elk/moose/bear. c)dont ride in that area during hunting season. Personally, when growing up, I preferred NOT to go anywhere near the woods during the season just in case. You ever know where a stray bullet is going to come from and hurt you or your horse._


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## alexxmeadows

Great! Thanks


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## Gothic Melodies

I can't believe I've never thought that this could happen. How could I be so foolish? I should really take these videos seriously because I'm a very young trail rider and I like to ride alone. There are some creepy people out there meaning that I should always be aware. This is kinda scary to think about. It could happen at any time. Lets stay safe on the trails everyone.


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## Deej

Very good! Thanks for posting. LoveD, "The Date"!!!! LoL...


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## charro

I thought that leaving the city and into the trails I would be safer, wow.

maybe its time we practiced open carry,(open carry in CA) or I can put those new sliders on his hooves to use :wink:


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## Missdv

Awesome, I usually ride with my husband but there are occasions I'm alone. I know Kalila would help out she is protective, don't want to share me, but Mariah is well trained and may not be have to show hubby, a new training session I think. i have friends where we ride alone, 3 women, in the reserve, probably a good tool, thanks.


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## Mocha26

This was good information! Great post!


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## Phantomcolt18

wow that was really informative and looking back on everything.....when we used to go on trail rides my old BO would make us dismount and show off our horses to people walking on the ground. She said we were being "Good equine advocates" looking back and realizing that could have turned into one of the most dangerous situations we put ourselves into : / 

I'm definately gonna have to remember these moves just in case.


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## WalkerLady

I trail ride with a girlfriend in isolated areas all the time and I never even thought about this. Thanks for the info, knowledge is power.


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## AppyLuva

I should have thought about trail safety a lot sooner than this. Sometimes when I'm on the trails I'll forget that the world is full of some creepy people who will do some strange and bad things. I don't know what I would've done if someone tried to steal my horse on the trail before this video shared a lot of advice with me. I guess being a beginner means making big mistakes and learning from them and others. I'll be sure to take these videos seriously for now on.


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## AlexS

Thanks for posting this, and it reminds me that I am too trusting. In the first scene in the video where the man walks up to the horse she should have kicked on and got away from him. I have a tendancy to not want people to think badly of me, so I would have done as she did, and done nothing. 
So this is a good reminder, thanks.


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## Tabbi Kat

is there anyone else that isn't able the view this video? i have a feeling it's because i'm using an i mac


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## WalkerLady

Tabbi Kat said:


> is there anyone else that isn't able the view this video? i have a feeling it's because i'm using an i mac


I have a Mac and had no trouble viewing it.


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## RaynRavyn

VelvetsAB said:


> _Great post!_
> 
> _mliponoga-Not all hunters are like that, so it isn't fair to group them together. I have hunted, but we had a "dry" camp and we never dreamed of having alcohol there. Yes, it sucks when what you were trying to get is spooked off, but thats part of hunting. If you trail ride in an area that is hunted in, you are better off either a)wearing safety colours of red/orange/yellow or wear something else bright coloured like lime or neons. b) *put safety colours on your horse to help ensure it isnt mistaken for a deer/elk/moose/bear*. c)dont ride in that area during hunting season. Personally, when growing up, I preferred NOT to go anywhere near the woods during the season just in case. You ever know where a stray bullet is going to come from and hurt you or your horse._


 

Bold is mine.  While hunting season is on here, we use horse-safe paints in very loud colors (blaze orange, hot pink, lime green...) and completely cover the horses. Makes for some very interesting pasture scenes, but we went from having an "accident" at least once or twice a season, to none at all since we started painting them. So a little blow to their egos well worth it.


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## Eclipse295

I haven't been threatened on the trail, though I am pretty sure I know what would happen:

Sherman would probably freakout and step on him.
Ace would probably step on him or bite him.
Sammy would probably attack him.


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## Gus

nice reminder


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## Hunter65

mliponoga said:


> I've had a deer hunter come up to me with a gun (out of season mind you) and start threatening us about calling the cops and how he first thought the horses were deer, blah blah blah. That's probably the most dangerous time to be riding is during hunting season. Those deer hunters usually are a little drunk to start out with and carrying weapons and then you go and tick them off by riding past their hunting grounds....but I carry a knife on the trail and try to stay off private property unless I've been given permission. Luckily I live in such a small town though most of the people are nice and just stop and talk to us.


I was thinking about that last summer when we were riding at our property up north. We heard a shotgun and I started to worry because Hunter was about the color of a deer at that time.


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## BFFofHorses

Excellent vidoe  I personally will not ride anywhere without a gun. I ride in deep woods, and its a good thing to have in case of bears, etc. I would ask my horse to go at a gallop, but she bucks a lot


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## lildonkey8

cool vidieo


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## Ray MacDonald

Tabbi Kat said:


> is there anyone else that isn't able the view this video? i have a feeling it's because i'm using an i mac


Yeah I can't see it either, I am also on a mac


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## Hunter65

I am on a mac and I had no trouble seeing it


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## Jumper4ever

This is such good advice! I am pretty young and I go riding in the state forest a bunch with my friends as well as in the trails around my house and there are some pretty creepy people around me. Any other ideas of where to find more trail self defense things?


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## flytobecat

Thanks for the post. I ride in a large park and some pretty remote areas (usually not alone). I've never been approached by anyone, but we have come across some transients who were a little shady. One actually almost got my sister thrown, we were riding through & he came out of the brush. We were almost on top of him. Needless to say the horses spooked.
You have to be careful when your out, because you never know what you'll run into. 
I don't like the idea of carrying a gun. Even though I've been trained to shoot, I don't think that would be my 1st instinct in an emergency.


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## trailhorserider

I trail ride out on the national forest, mostly alone, all the time. I've never felt threatened by human or animal. Never felt the need to carry a gun. I wouldn't know how to use one anyway. 

I do dress my horses (and myself) in hunter orange during hunting season because I ride through the woods and there are elk and deer hunts going on from late August through December. 

I am a big believer in hunter orange. :lol:

But really, we have bears, cougars, etc. and I've never had an animal bother me. Luckily I don't encounter many humans out there. The humans worry me more. I do feel safer on horseback than on foot. I feel like as long as I stay on my horse I can escape anything that might threaten us.


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## spookychick13

When I used to ride my old horse alone, if I encountered strangers, no matter how nice they seemed, I told them my horse was unpredictable and they should steer clear. I told them he bit and kicked because he had a bad experience with a person on foot while we were riding.
That was a total lie, but it kept people FAR away from us.

It's sad things have to be like that, though.


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## fuadteagan

I do not trail ride , by myself ever. If someone was walking there and i saw them then i would just trot off because even though he may seem nice and normal i would do it just for safety no matter if he was not attacking me or anything.


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## fuadteagan

and i would just like drop the reins almost and then i would kick and wait till i was far away


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## candandy49

Before I retired my now 23 yo horse I used to ride our country back roads starting from our house by myself. Any cars we had encountered were mostly all neighbors. Never even gave any thought to maybe being in danger of being attacked. I never ventured out on blazed trails in conservation areas by myself though.


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## I love horses

That's a really great and interessting video.
Thanks for posting it.

Althought I don't think that something like this will ever happen, it's always good to know, what to do in such situations.


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## Northern Guide

*Good tip*

Good advice given here,,, the practice makes for perfet though


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## Ioneth

mliponoga said:


> I've had a deer hunter come up to me with a gun (out of season mind you) and start threatening us about calling the cops and how he first thought the horses were deer, blah blah blah. That's probably the most dangerous time to be riding is during hunting season. Those deer hunters usually are a little drunk to start out with and carrying weapons and then you go and tick them off by riding past their hunting grounds....but I carry a knife on the trail and try to stay off private property unless I've been given permission. Luckily I live in such a small town though most of the people are nice and just stop and talk to us.


You said it was out of season so that man was not a hunter he was a poacher you should have called the police/wild life agency and reported him

someone else posted that you and your horse should wear blaze orange to make you stand out.


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## Brittmilt

This video is perfect for me since I'm the only one in the family who owns a horse. Due to the fact that I'm alone on the trails I need to be alert and prepared to protect my horse and I from anyone who's a threat. During hunting season I always dress my horse up in bright orange and I wear a bright orange vest that my mom brought me from work. However, where I live the hunters are responsible and know what they're doing, so most of them are respectful and helpful when needed. I still wear the orange just in case. I'm going to work on the spin with Quinn because we've never done that before. Thank you for posting this video.


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## misskingraven

Oh man, I never thought about what I would do if someone came up to me on the trial and tried to do that!! It never even crossed my mind that people would even try that with a person on a horse!


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## misskingraven

Haha, no, I alway have a pocket knife when I go on the trail, just in case!


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## arkangel

lol i like that idea so i need help getting aquanted and cool vid


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## mbender

What do you guys think? I bought a 800,000 volt tazer and pepper spray. Is this enough protection?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phantomhorse13

mbender said:


> What do you guys think? I bought a 800,000 volt tazer and pepper spray. Is this enough protection?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


just make sure you are comfortable actually USING whatever you carry.

we had a dog come into work (i work in a small animal er) the other day who had been accidentally pepper sprayed (along with his owner) when the owner tried to spray an aggressive dog and didn't have the nozzle pointed the right way and sprayed himself/his dog instead. 

personally, i am not sure i am coordinated enough to handle the reins/turning the horse and pepper spray in a bad situation, so i carry a long crop with me. don't need it for my horse, but its sure come in handy for swatting nippy dogs. i would think (hope!) a lash across the eyes of an attacking human would be equally effective. 

and when nothing bad is happening, it makes a great fly-flicker and tree-branch-mover. :lol:


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## TBtrailrider

This was definitely a great little video I found it helpful!


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## SugarPlumLove

It won't seem to work for me. can someone post it on here?


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## ridgerunnr

a horse not afraid of gun fire and a state(MN) where we can carry concealed firearms helps..awareness is first and foremost..Having a PLAN and thinking all the "what ifs" through help prepare you for action if it is ever needed


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## smrobs

Sugarplum, you have to have Windows Media Player on your computer, I think. That's what it loads up in for me. If I knew how to save the file on my computer, I would put it on youtube.

Here is the original website though. You can find a link to the video in the upper left.
HorseThink


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## SugarPlumLove

I got it! turns out it doesn't work on my gramma's computer but it does on mine!


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## palgal

There is an area on the trail I ride that unfortunately seems to be a spot where people must hang out at night and leave trash around. There also is an old deserted metal building at the site and it is somewhat deep in the wooded area of the park. I have actually seen vultures fly out of the building. Yesterday a tent was set up and it really gave us the creeps not knowing who it belonged to why anyone would want to camp there. Thanks for posting this video. It is sad to think that that kind of danger is out there. We are thinking of avoiding that part of the trail from now on.


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## 2bacowgirl

Great video with some helpful tips. It is a good idea to be aware of the dangers of meeting others on the trail. I hope I do not open a can of worms, but when it is just two of us riding a lot of times we do carry a gun with us. We have checked with the local forest service to make sure this was legal. Where we ride it is legal for us to carry a weapon as long as it is not concealed. My personal opinion is that just the sight of someone carrying a weapon may be enough of a deterrent to leave them alone. I hope I never have to find out!


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## Celeste

If you carry a gun that is concealed, you need to get a concealed weapons carry permit.


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## Celeste

Celeste said:


> If you carry a gun that is concealed, you need to get a concealed weapons carry permit.


This is true in Georgia. Apparently it varies from place to place.


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## Poco1220

I did end up in a semi bad situation about 2 months ago when my BIL's girlfriend went nuts and decided to attack me ON MY PROPERTY. I called the cops but refused to get off my horse until they arrived (which took nearly 30 minutes). Poco (my stallion) was amazing in the situation. I shifted my weight to the outside to prevent her from pulling me over (and making the only vulnerable area on me my leg). Everytime she tried approaching me on the side Poco would swing his butt to her and threaten to kick. When she tried going around the other side he made a good attempt to bite her and kept his ears laid back the entire time. by the 2nd attempted kick she decided she had enough and started yelling at me about how my horse was dangerous... DUH! You came after me!

Luckily she left right before the cops came and it all ended well but it was nice to know that in that situation my horse actually took the initiative to defend me as well. It also made me wonder if that was something any horse would do or if it had something to do with him being a stallion "protecting his herd"?


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## AvasMom

Very helpful, thank you !


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## Stakie

Well, I can't watch the video quite yet. However this thread has sprung the idea of self defense on me. I have no one to trail ride with. I planned on bringing a knife to clear paths on the property but not because of an attacker. I will probably invest in pepper spray now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs

Stakie, if you buy pepper spray, I would go with the type that comes out in a stream. I have quite a bit of experience with all kinds of pepper spray and the stream would be the best, especially for defense while riding. The other options are "cone", "fog", and "foam". All of those are designed for use in very close proximity and tend to get everyone and everything in the blast radius (including your horse). With stream, you can actually aim and get the majority of it on the attacker.

This is the brand that I have the most experience with and it is exceptionally effective.
Top Cop Pepper spray: Primary Users: Law Enforcement, Military, Correctional Personnel.Top Cop Pepper spray is distribbuted by security pro USA

Here is a place that describes the different dispersal methods and what they are used for.
Different Kinds of Pepper Spray


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## Stakie

Thank you for the advice. I really don't think Ziggy would like pepper spray. Now the only thing I'm concerned a out is where to put it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs

You're welcome .

You can get leather or synthetic pouches that attach to your belt that carry the canisters. I, personally, wouldn't leave it on your saddle just in case you need it at some point when you're dis-mounted.


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## Stakie

I plan on getting a saddle with pouches/pockets built in. So I was curious if it was good or bad to put it in there. Maybe I will invest in an over the shoulder bag. I rarely ride with pants with pockets and don't own much of anything like a purse. Maybe a backpack?


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## smrobs

I would want it in a place that was easy to get to in a hurry, maybe a...darn, what are they called...those little bags that go around your waist and have the...OH, fanny pack! That would be a good place to carry a cell phone and/or first aid kit as well.


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## Stakie

Do they actually sell fanny packs anymore? I thought they went out in the 90's! (LOL) I was thinking of first aid kits too but I was thinking of just hooking that to the saddle along with information on where to return the horse.


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## smrobs

Yep, they still sell them but they aren't exactly "fashionable" anymore :lol:.

Amazon.com: fanny pack


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## Stakie

No, no they are not. That link doesn't seem to work though. I suppose the fanny pack wouldn't be able to be seen with my long shirts though. So that really doesn't matter.


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## smrobs

Hm, you're right, that link doesn't work :?. Maybe this one will work better.
Fanny pack | Shop fanny pack sales & prices at TheFind


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## Stakie

I really like that monster fanny. Now if that came in bright colors I would so invest!


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## Stakie

Finally got to watch the video. I will definitely be asking my trainer about this and how to do it without confusing Ziggy.


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## panootie

Wow great video and great information in both the video and your posts, thank you!


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## VT Trail Trotters

Very nice! Never thought you could use your horse to protect yourself. My aunt who also is a big person into horses trail riding in VT and it is remote. And she carries a 30 Cal. Smith & Weston pistol. When she goes on the trail. I would to.


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## dutchaz

Mickey4793 said:


> You can only hope the attacker isn't yielding a gun like a lot of people these days, ....


_Sorry old thread, but backreading and had to comment._ 

I started wearing a .357 Rugar on my hip when I was commuting on the urban freeways on a Harley. Worked well to keep people a "safe distance away". No reason I shouldn't do the same on a horse - should serve the same purpose ... :wink:

[FWIW: AZ is an open carry, no CCW-permit-required state]

-Dutch


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## Celeste

I doubt you would ever really have to shoot somebody. You just need for them to believe that you can and will and they should leave you alone.

About fanny packs and fashion, well, who cares? I don't give fashion a thought while riding. I think about utility and comfort.


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## smrobs

Celeste said:


> I doubt you would ever really have to shoot somebody. You just need for them to believe that you can and will and they should leave you alone.


While that may be true that it might never come to that, any person who wants to carry a gun had better be _willing_ to use it if it gets to that point. I've known a lot of people that carry guns but go around openly saying "Oh, I could never _really_ shoot anyone, I just carry it for the intimidation factor."

The thing about that is that not every bad guy will back off if you just have a gun on your hip. Not all of them will back off even if you are pointing it at them.


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## Celeste

That is true. You should not carry if you would not use it under extreme circumstances. 

I consider my life to be worth more than the life of some insane murderer.


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## dutchaz

smrobs said:


> ... person who wants to carry a gun had better be _willing_ to use it if it gets to that point ...


I would have no qualms pointing and pulling the trigger should that be necessary :wink: I have on occasion had to do the former.... it DOES send a strong message.

-Dutch


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## Katze

^ ditto, if it's me or the attacker, i'd shoot him/her without batting an eyelash.


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## Celeste

I also will shoot if pushed to do so. I have a strong sense of self-preversation.


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## Ray MacDonald

Katze said:


> ^ ditto, if it's me or the attacker, i'd shoot him/her without batting an eyelash.


I'm with ya! I don't have a problem with shooting someone if I thought I was in any danger.


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## ujjal05

I will kill the bad animal that would made of angry:-D. I dont have a gun but I would have bows and arrows that I can use just like a gun or even better and can kill anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mildot

ujjal05 said:


> *I will kill the bad animal that would made of angry*:-D. I dont have a gun but I would have bows and arrows that I can use just like a gun or even better and can kill anyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Killing someone for making you angry? Good way to end up in prison for manslaughter or worse. 

The threshold for the use of deadly force is quite a bit higher than that.


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## Joe4d

I see alot of "I would shoot replies" from people living in places that have governments that outlaw the means to self defense, 

How many of you "shoot to kill people" own a gun or have taken the time to actually learn to be proficient. 
Firearms, especially handguns take time and practice to be proficient enough to be responsible in there use.


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## Katze

Joe4d said:


> I see alot of "I would shoot replies" from people living in places that have governments that outlaw the means to self defense,
> 
> How many of you "shoot to kill people" own a gun or have taken the time to actually learn to be proficient.
> Firearms, especially handguns take time and practice to be proficient enough to be responsible in there use.


I go to the shooting range often, and have shot a variety of guns/shotguns/ semi-auto's/ and a sniper rifle. So yes I am quite able to shove a gun in someones face that is threatening me and pull the trigger. It's me or him imo, and if he's stupid enough to attack someone he's stupid enough to get hurt for it.


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## Bearkiller

Joe, with all do respect, there aren't many people who are going to stand around and wait to see if someone is a good shot. In fact 99% of people will take off at the sight of a gun and the rest will take off at the first shot fired. In fact, in the Utah concealed carry class they tell you to start shooting as soon as your gun's out of the holster. If you aim your dead. They do tell you to shoot to kill, though. If you get your gun that high and they are still there.There is also nothing in the constitution about responsible use or training or permits. I personally go to the range with my whole family and shoot. Because we enjoy it.


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## QOS

I was talking about this video the other day. I found that several of my fellow riders are packing heat when we go! I had no idea. My hubby is a licensed hand gun owner but I know he has never carried a gun on our rides. 

I do not know how to shoot really-I do have excellent hand eye coordination (about the ONLY coordination that I have!) but if I did have a gun and was threatened I wouldn't hesitate to shoot. Generally when people attack someone they mean to hurt or kill them...so yeah...I would shoot to kill if I was carrying a gun. I am a pro cake decorator. Two of my fellow decorators are sweet looking ladies that carry some SERIOUS heat with them. We went to a cake function in San Antonio and hubby warned me about being careful...LOL I told him Betty and Jacque had Smith and Wesson and a Magnum. I think we were as safe as we could be.


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## Joe4d

Bearkiller said:


> Joe, with all do respect, there aren't many people who are going to stand around and wait to see if someone is a good shot. In fact 99% of people will take off at the sight of a gun and the rest will take off at the first shot fired. In fact, in the Utah concealed carry class they tell you to start shooting as soon as your gun's out of the holster. If you aim your dead. They do tell you to shoot to kill, though. If you get your gun that high and they are still there.There is also nothing in the constitution about responsible use or training or permits. I personally go to the range with my whole family and shoot. Because we enjoy it.


WOW ! what an irresponsible use of a firearm, bullets never miss, they always hit something and every single one of them has a lawyer attached. 
So your basing your statistics on how many personally witnessed firefights ? If wishful thinking makes you feel better have at it. Evcery shot needs to be aimed.
With freedom comes responsibility. I never said anything about government mandated training or proficiency tests. Those that make the choice to depend on a fire arm for self defense, ( which is a good choice I agree with) should take it apon them selves to become proficient in there use and know where each and every shot is gonna land. 
Take a class learn from a pro, do some defensive shooting drills. get out and practice. DOnt elect politicians that take that right away from you.


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## kevinshorses

Joe4d said:


> WOW ! what an irresponsible use of a firearm, bullets never miss, they always hit something and every single one of them has a lawyer attached.
> So your basing your statistics on how many personally witnessed firefights ? If wishful thinking makes you feel better have at it. Evcery shot needs to be aimed.
> With freedom comes responsibility. I never said anything about government mandated training or proficiency tests. Those that make the choice to depend on a fire arm for self defense, ( which is a good choice I agree with) should take it apon them selves to become proficient in there use and know where each and every shot is gonna land.
> Take a class learn from a pro, do some defensive shooting drills. get out and practice. DOnt elect politicians that take that right away from you.


I don't know if I've ever agreed with you more!


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## Bearkiller

I didn't get what I was trying to say out very good. I agree with you about being proficient and responsible. I was just trying to say that when you are actually in a situation to where you're pulling a gun out, you're still not going to be shooting very often. Because there are very few people who are going to hang around to find out if you are a good shot. I agree 100% with what you said.


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## Celeste

At the risk of being called a *******, I have pulled a gun on someone. He was trying to run me down with his truck. I didn't have to shoot him. He put his vehicle in reverse. I would have shot him if he had not backed off. If it had come down to his life or mine, I consider mine more valuable because I don't go around trying to kill innocent people. I agree with what Bearkiller said. You usually don't have to actually shoot somebody. If, however, you are not willing to under any circumstance, then I think carrying a gun is more of a hazard than a help. He might take it away from you and shoot you. I can shoot and I will shoot. I prefer not to and would only do so to save my life or that of someone that was under my protection such as my child.


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## TB Lover

*self defense on trail video*

Very good video and helpful. I am a 57 y/o woman, very small and not strong. I am hoping to find a nice trail horse and start riding on the trails here in Georgia. I never plan to be alone, but there may be a day when I can't find anyone to ride with me. The moves shown in this video are "do-a-ble". So now I won't be nearly as nervous. Thanks TB Lover


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## Skyseternalangel

Wow! I never thought this would even happen.. I think I'd personally use going on a date most since my horse has quite the hind engine  And it'd be great to use groundwork to keep someone away from you..

Thanks grayshell!


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## mildot

Skyseternalangel said:


> Wow! I never thought this would even happen..


Why not? 

Why do people have this insane denial mechanism that precludes the possibility of being a crime victim?

The probability of being the victim of violent crime is very, very small. However, the consequences of losing that fight are too severe. Therefore the risk cannot be ignored and a countermeasure must be developed and practiced.

Risk management 101.


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## Skyseternalangel

mildot said:


> Why not?
> 
> Why do people have this insane denial mechanism that precludes the possibility of being a crime victim?
> 
> The probability of being the victim of violent crime is very, very small. However, the consequences of losing that fight are too severe. Therefore the risk cannot be ignored and a countermeasure must be developed and practiced.
> 
> Risk management 101.


Well I just never think about being attacked anywhere.. on horse or on solid ground. I SHOULD APPARENTLY! You'd think watching all of those USA shows like Law and Order or Psych or whatnot, I'd think about self defense more seriously.. 

I'm definitely going to work with my horse on self defense attacks because if someone made a grab for me (it'd be hard to reach me but yeah) I think Sky would lose his cookies and just bolt like no other..


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## smrobs

Skyseternalangel said:


> I think Sky would lose his cookies and just bolt like no other..


Just stick with him then and you'd be just fine :wink:.

Sky, don't feel bad, most people _don't_ think about what might happen until they are forced to think about it. I never thought about any of it until my Dad became a cop and it didn't really sink in until I went to work at a prison.


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## Skyseternalangel

smrobs said:


> Just stick with him then and you'd be just fine :wink:.
> 
> Sky, don't feel bad, most people _don't_ think about what might happen until they are forced to think about it. I never thought about any of it until my Dad became a cop and it didn't really sink in until I went to work at a prison.


Yep! Gotta keep that sticky seat  

Very true.. kudos for working at a prison. That must have been a pretty intense place :/ Cowgirl tough


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## mildot

Skyseternalangel said:


> Well I just never think about being attacked anywhere.. on horse or on solid ground. I SHOULD APPARENTLY! You'd think watching all of those USA shows like Law and Order or Psych or whatnot, I'd think about self defense more seriously..


Forget about TV fantasy shows. Just read the news.


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## Skyseternalangel

mildot said:


> Forget about TV fantasy shows. Just read the news.


I know a lot of bad has been going on, but I never can put it quite in perspective since it's not happening to me, it's hard to explain.


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## smrobs

It was very intense...and very eye-opening.

Mildot, why are you getting so huffy about this? If you've been a victim at some point, then I'm sorry, but berating someone for _not_ thinking the absolute worst of people is not the way to help them learn or gain awareness.

It's human nature to not dwell on what might happen and many people grow up/live in areas where crime just isn't commonplace so they disconnect themselves from the possibility of it because connecting every horrible thing you see in a personal way is just....horrible. It's not something to be ashamed of doing and it's not a reason to bite someone's head off or treat them like a child. Everyone does it at some point, some more than others.

I do strongly encourage everyone to take some self defense classes or martial arts classes, especially women, but I realize that many people don't because they feel like it won't ever happen to them.

Because of my unique experiences, I am more aware of what's out there than many people are. I feel it's partly my responsibility to share my knowledge and help people to think of the world in a way that they might not have before, so that's what I do.

Talking down to people is not going to help do anything except make them unwilling to listen to anything you have to say.


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## Skyseternalangel

Thanks smrobs  Yes I plan on taking self defense courses!


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## mildot

smrobs said:


> it's not a reason to bite someone's head off or treat them like a child.


I am plain, direct, and to the point. Not everyone any more can take that as it is.

Carry on.


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## smrobs

You can be direct and to the point without talking down to people, you know.


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## loveduffy

the video was very good as these time are now people are looking for quick money go to netposse.com and read about horses and tack and trailers taken it could happen more now them every so being ready is a good idea--Hppy trail riding--


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## LadyNeigh

ta thanks!!


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## AZguy

that was a good video. I always think about self defense since im one of the survivalist types and usually carry my gun on trail rides ( which i train with regularly and also carry daily). I teach martial arts but i never really though of being attacked when i am on a horse, that would definitely change things. I dont really look like a target because of my size and the im a guy, but im going to have my girlfriend watch this video. She can handle herself also but im not sure if being attacked on a trail is something she has thought about.


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## Elky

There have been a lot of sensible responses on here about self-defense on the trail, There have also been some big misconceptions. 

First off, not everyone who hunts is a drunk. Also, I would like to see the law that states someone cannot carry a firearm before hunting season starts. Believe it or not, there are more hunting seasons than just deer season, and believe it or not, some hunters put a great deal of time and effort into the pre-hunt. This also leads to the point that the 2nd Amendment is not about hunting, it is about the right to keep and bear arms. It says nothing about hunting in the Constitution.

When I go out on trail rides, someone approaching me is the least of my concerns. It is very seldom I see a person where I ride. I do come across people on mountain bikes on occasion, and have never felt threatened by one of them. Still I carry both a large caliber rifle and a large caliber handgun on each and every ride I go on, and sometimes my pepper spray as well. Although I do not feel fear when I see a fellow outdoors person in the mountains, I do have a great deal of respect for bears, both black bears and grizzly bears, especially if they are with cubs. I do not fear the wolves nor do I fear the mountain lions. They are more afraid of people than I am of them, and they will keep their distance. The problem with the bears is that you can surprise a sow with cubs and then all heck is going to break loose. So it is important to allow them to hear you, simple talking, to a friend riding with you or your horse. Whistle a tune while you ride. Put a bell on your horse. These will all work fine to allow them to hear you.

I realize some folks do not approve of guns, do not like guns, are afraid of guns or do not understand how guns work. That is fine, and a great alternative and very effective means of protection has been mentioned, pepper spray. If this is your choice, please get the larger canister which will shoot out a spray to 30 feet. Do not get one of the chemical make believe sprays as they will deteriorate over time. Get one that is made with real peppers. Have someone who knows about bear spray/pepper spray tell you if it will be no good over time. Most have an expiration date on them, that does not necessarily mean that it will no longer be any good, it sometimes means that the manufacturer want you to renew your purchase.

Most situations can be controled or avoided with plain common sense. Now go out and enjoy a nice lone ride with your four legged friend.


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## Skipsfirstspike

Thanks for the info, guys. Very interesting subject!


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## Celeste

My horse has not been trained for me to fire a gun off of her. I can imagine her reaction.............


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## gunslinger

I carried a .38 for awhile while riding in the back country. One night, on the edge of the Cohutta wilderness area, near Dally gap on Tumbling Creek road, one of the biggest darn bears I've ever laid my eyes on crossed the road in front of me. That big fellow looked almost as big as a horse. 

We see bears frequently when riding in the mountains. It's always a thrill to see them, but never have I seen one as large as this fellow was.

I realized I didn't have a big enough gun.

Now I ride with .44 mag on my belt.

Joe, I saw a mountain lion in the Shenandoah National Forest while hiking the AT many years ago, the only one I've ever seen in the wild. It was quite a thrill.


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## Celeste

I saw a mountain lion (probably a stray Florida panther actually) in middle Georgia by the Flint River. They technically don't live here, but there was somebody convicted of shooting one near here recently. It was amazing to see him just standing there.


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## SorrelHorse

I didn't read the thread.

I could've sworn I posted to this when it was first brought up but I guess not?

Anywho.

I ride with a pistol. More because we live in the area with many, many animals. If someone suspicious was walking close to me, I would immediately start pushing my horse around and making it look like he was out of control, telling the person to back off because the horse kicks :lol: I've actually gotten people with that before. You get a horse who's responsive enough and you make them jump around some, it's quite convincing to someone who has no idea what the tail end of a horse looks like.

If that doesn't work, I'm going to pretend to get everything under control and nonchalantly take out my pistol and put a shot in it. :lol: If they don't get the hint at that point, it's their own **** fault.

I have zero problem shooting someone if they threaten me (And if they threaten my horse they're dead without question). I have, on many occasions, watched drug dealers walk down the road into town and sat on my porch with my rifle just staring at them, absolutely DARING them to try something. Sometimes image is enough to scare people off.

And ya know. My 200lb great danes I have started riding with would deter them, and if they didn't, well..... I pity the poor creeper. I don't know one single command that would take a massive boar hunting dog off it's prey until it was dead.


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## Celeste

I would not attack you if you had a 200 pound dog even if I was a criminal. That is a big dog!


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## franknbeans

WOuld it be possible for the whole gun rights discussion to be another thread? There is more to "self defense on the trail" than guns, and all of the constitutional discussion is pretty much off topic. Just a suggestion. There may be others who are actually INTERESTED in the gun discussion and are missing it here.


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## iridehorses

You are correct, Franknbeans. I will edit out the discussion and move it to it's own thread.

EDIT, the discussion has now been moved to here http://www.horseforum.com/general-off-topic-discussion/guns-laws-etc-119042/

Let's please remember to get back on the topic of this thread or go to the new one to continue the firearms and laws discussion.


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## HorseCrazyGirlForever

Great info! Thank you for posting!


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## 7thhorsesoldier

Thats why i always carry a Arkansas toothpick with we LOL. Great advice though! Thnx for posting.


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## Joe4d

I need to vent, I am angry and appalled, and just really cant believe what happened, I came around the trail at a moderate gait, boout 6mph, saw some kids dragging what appeared to be large branches around. I am thinking i hope they dont wave them at Mr spook monster,, any way as I get closer I see the little snots are booby trapping the trail, they are running about a 1 inch thick grape vine across the trail. They jerk it up in front of me about 1 to 2 foot off the ground as I stop and start yelling at them. There is an adult woman (mom maybe) standing right there watching them. and these are little kids, say 6 ish ?... I cant believe it, she is laughing, telling them come on thats not nice,,,,,,I tell her , :Not NICE ? You're the adult you stupid [email protected]#$ch. I get a bit farther down the trail and call 911 and report them, park ranger went looking but hadnt found them..... seriously I just cant believe an adult would just stand there and think that was something ok to do.


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## Celeste

CRAP! I am glad that you didn't get arrested for killing the b#$%%.
What was she thinking?


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## AmazinCaucasian

Shoulda pistol-whipped that huzzy and rode yer horse over the top of her while she was down. I always wonder what it would feel like to ride on a human carcass. Probably like riding on wet sand

Oh and shake out a loop and lace one on those kids, take a wrap and go off at a high lope, maybe bounce em off a couple young trees just enough to rattle their cage


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## Celeste

AmazinCaucasian, I believe that you are behaving badly. LOL.


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## AmazinCaucasian

yeah probly got too emotionally involved in that one


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## iequat8

Really good information that could save your life. Thanks for posting it.


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## Customcanines

Thanks so much for posting this - I hope me daughter and i will never have to need it! When I was 13 I was riding alone on the trail and a man approached from the front. My horse watched him, and when the man was abot 15 feet away, my horse pinned his ears and Charged!!! Boy did that guy run!!!!!LOL. My horse never did it before or after and I always wondered...


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## chrislynnet

Customcanines said:


> When I was 13 I was riding alone on the trail and a man approached from the front. My horse watched him, and when the man was abot 15 feet away, my horse pinned his ears and Charged!!! Boy did that guy run!!!!!LOL. My horse never did it before or after and I always wondered...


That's amazing! I would expect a dog to do that but not a horse. Very cool, good for your horse.


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## gunslinger

Celeste said:


> CRAP! I am glad that you didn't get arrested for killing the b#$%%.
> What was she thinking?


She wasn't thinking, that's the problem.


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## HagonNag

Obviously intelligence and age don't always go together. Even a grown up idiot is an idiot. AND....they breed.


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## LauraJo

After having lived in a few not so friendly places, I decided it was time to learn what was needed to defend myself.

A little back story:
My other half and I move almost annually for his work. Sometimes we end up living in some not so awesome places. I am a stay at home/student and he is gone long hours, often 8a-8p. I have a small dog but we all know how little she could do to protect me (though she is EXCELLENT at alerting me!).
Anyway our last "post" (we are not military) put us in a hurry to find a place to live and get settled in FAST. Unfortunately this left me no time to go and observe the apartments before we signed a lease and moved right in. Two days into life in the new place, a 14 year old STABBED and 12 year old over a bicycle in our parking lot. Needless to say I was terrified! Jon and I decided that since I would not be able to physically fend someone off (I have back injuries that prevent me from doing a lot of things) that we would go and learn everything we could about firearms. We got so lucky, because we ended up training at NRA headquarters. We spent a year going for weekly lessons, plus additional shooting time on the weekends. We got our CC's in VA, and now in PA. 

We now reside in a nice farm house in the country in SE PA. I'll admit I BEGGED to rent the place when we got here, but once we moved in and he went off to work, I became so wigged about being home alone, way out in no wheres ville... that I started carrying CONSTANTLY. and I am glad I did...

Back in May, I was home (alone of course) on a super nice day. I had every window in the house wide open, the front door propped and fans going to air this old place out. was dusting and cleaning and singing along with VH1, the dog was upstairs in the bed avoiding the noise lol (stupid on my part!). I bent over to flip up the edge of the living room rug and when I stood back up, there was a man STANDING in my doorway! This guy had come onto the property on foot, walked up and into the screened in porch and was standing mere feet from me before I even knew he was there! I jumped out of my skin! I screamed get out! He backed out onto the lawn and I followed him with my hand on my holster...
"I'm selling magazine subscriptions..." he said 
"I don't care... what you're doing, that's MY home you just walked into without being allowed! I could have SHOT you!" My hand stayed on my holster (I have an inside the waistband setup, that sits on the back of my right side). "You need to leave."
He backed himself to the driveway and turned and walked on up the country road. He never saw my gun, but just my body posture had to have given away what I was prepared to do to keep myself safe.

This man was a BIG guy... I'm talking 6'2" 275lb with big beefy arms and stuff. (for reference, I am 5' nothing, 135 lbs) Later that day (after calling the non emergency # and reporting the weirdo), they put out a bulletin that there were fake door to door salesman reported in my county and the county south of me and in Philly!

The ONE time when being a bit paranoid may very well have saved me!

I lease a horse for trail riding with access to 1700 acres of state park. Because I am not working currently (and that is by choice I am not a bum nor do I receive any public assistance) I am able to ride almost any time. That's great and I love it, but it also means I am 90% of the time out there alone. There are always people out there, but sometimes you can ride for 2 hours without seeing a soul. I carry. my weapon, my ID and CC permits and copies of the local laws, along with my phone (with the "find lost phone" app activated) and other small things that will help me stay safe and happy.


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## iridehorses

Welcome to the forum! I'm surprised about the incident, especially where you live (I lived in New Hope for nearly 17 years until moving to SC). I guess things have changed - goo you have your CWP and use it.


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## LauraJo

Joe4d said:


> I need to vent, I am angry and appalled, and just really cant believe what happened, I came around the trail at a moderate gait, boout 6mph, saw some kids dragging what appeared to be large branches around. I am thinking i hope they dont wave them at Mr spook monster,, any way as I get closer I see the little snots are booby trapping the trail, they are running about a 1 inch thick grape vine across the trail. They jerk it up in front of me about 1 to 2 foot off the ground as I stop and start yelling at them. There is an adult woman (mom maybe) standing right there watching them. and these are little kids, say 6 ish ?... I cant believe it, she is laughing, telling them come on thats not nice,,,,,,I tell her , :Not NICE ? You're the adult you stupid [email protected]#$ch. I get a bit farther down the trail and call 911 and report them, park ranger went looking but hadnt found them..... seriously I just cant believe an adult would just stand there and think that was something ok to do.


I wouldn't have waited to call and I wouldn't have let them out of my sight til the authorities were there.


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## Celeste

LauraJo, Wow. I'm glad you were carrying.


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## Thunderspark

I'm new to this forum and I am having problems with getting the forums where it all shows up, I will click on a topic but it won't go to the first page. Says it is but there is nothing there but can come to page 2.....I was trying to see the video you all were talking about.....


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## Celeste

See if this works. I think you have to download it. This is from the first post of this thread.

http://www.horsethink.com/media/selfdefensepromo.wmv


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## BexEsmee

Great video! Thanks for sharing! I laughed so hard at the bit when he was trying to get her off by pushing her leg, and she just sat there like, "Yup." XD
Only today, while waiting for a friend by a field, a car randomly pulled up near where me and my horse were stood. It might have been nothing, but I'm not usually one to be caught off guard, so headed down one of the paths I would normally have cantered down, so if they came after me, I could bolt away. 
Luckily, as I watched from behind a tree from a distance, the car left after a few moments.


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## Thunderspark

LOL thanks, I got it.......can't say that I've ever come across someone trying to knock us off our horses but who's to say it couldn't happen!


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## SRriding

That was great! Us girls are usually out by ourselves and you just never know!! Thank you for posting that video!!


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## Lisaonline

excellent information...thank you for sharing!


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## SeemsLegit

Thanks for showing us this! Awesome video. C:


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## Jeffrey B

I have been checking out the forum since I'm a new user that video had some good pointers especially spinning your horse and going forward with the perp. I'm a Martial Arts instructor and a former Ranger. 
I despise a bully, rapist, crook honestly size does matter to a point but not completely and caring a weapon is illegal in some states and that doesn’t mean that a person will use it there are two options fight or flight.
1. try to do what the video recommended and turn your horse so you can get the person off balance so you can get away GO to a safe spot where there is a lot of people then ask for help.

2. Carry a weapon 
Mace it is effective and it will give you a chance to get awayit is considered a less lethal form of self-defense and it will also work on animals you may encounter on the trail.
A. Carry a knife
It is a bit more aggressive in defense and unlike the movies if you are forced to stab or cut someone they don’t die immediately there adrenalin will start racing and it will anger them it may cause you more harm if they are able dismount you.
I personally carry a k-bar knife but that’s me I have been trained to defend myself with this weapon.
B. Carry a gun 
Not all states and parks will let you carry a firearm even with a permit the penalties can be very severe. And not all people can pull the trigger on someone and take there life it doesn’t make you any less of a person the act of taking another persons life is a terrible thing it does have its repercussions and not just the legalities of it either that is something that you never forget.
 Its very unfortunate that there are people out there that would want to cause you harm I would recommend that everyone looks into taking some sort of self-defense class. We choose to ride our horses and enjoy the scenery and the freedom of nature by choice Please be observant and cautious not everyone is as nice as you are.

Ride Smart, Ride Safe

Jeffrey B


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## MillieSantana

That page wouldn't come up for me but I saw a short little video of a woman getting pulled off on the homepage. Is that it?


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## flcreek1156

When in doubt-empty the magazine.:shock:


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## 6gun Kid

As a former LEO I am happy to see constructive common sense approaches to personal safety. I am a big ugly guy, so I am rarely bothered (I am also usually strapped), but I have been put in dicey situations myself. But I am also the father of 2 beautiful teenaged daughters, and now the step father to an equally beautiful 6 year old step daughter.... and I worry. A LOT. The best defense anyone can have situational awareness. I like the fact that this guy's approach seems to stress that. Yes having a knife or a gun is handy, but not fool proof. Just to put it in perspective, the average high school kid can run the 100 yd dash in the 10 second range. That extrapolates to 30 feet in 2 seconds (roughly, the wife is the math teacher not me). So think can you effectively draw a gun (or knife), find a point of aim, and be steady on your sight picture in 2 seconds? I can, but it has taken years of practice. 
So do yourself a favor and be aware, that is your best defense. Ride safe and smart.


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## cjsunshine

I am sharing this with my Teenage nieces!


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## Slave2Ponies

*Bear with me, I'm new (pun)*

Thank you for the URL for the video...very useful. I would like to say that the only time I have felt threatened in my 30+ years of trail riding alone in the forest was a very frightening bear encounter. If I had a weapon with me, I doubt that I could have controlled my horse, got the weapon out and aimed it, let alone fired it without a disaster happening. Think about whether you could really fire a weapon from your horse in an emergency situation! I think it would be a lot wiser to use the horse to your advantage and fun to teach these maneuvers too! But if you want to go the gun route, make sure you practice with your horse.


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## MillieSantana

I'm still only seeing the little thirty seconds video of her being attacked.....?


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## jaydee

Thanks for posting. The worlds full of nutters sad to say and better to be able to deal with them. If I meet a lone walker on the trails or if some one stopped by me in a car in the UK I keep as far away as I can so I can ride off fast if they worry me for some reason. Normal people are unlikely to want to come close to a horse & rider
The trailer loading is more of a concern, a lot of the parking places are in isolated lonely spots


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## TrailDustMelody

Would someone kindly reupload the video in a Mac-friendly format? Youtube, quicktime... My computer is not able to open it but I really want to watch it!


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## iRide Ponies

I just want to point out that many people are talking about if you could or not shoot someone dead-If someone attacks you you don't have to shoot them in the head. You could probably shoot them in the knee or something. I'm not actually a gun-person but that was just my first thought whilst reading these posts.


Here in NZ we are not allowed to carry guns on public beaches but many people ride on the coasts. As NZ has many beaches they are not crowded (often deserted) so it is totally possible someone could be attacked whilst riding on the beach. I know on rider with a good self defense plan, they have a large machete (sharp) strapped across their horses shoulders. If complained at they say it is for the cutting away of gorse when they ride over the dunes, but its most important purpose is to serve as a very visible detour to anyone wishing them harm.

This idea could be adapted for riding in pretty-much any wilderness area.


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## bsms

iRide Ponies said:


> ...If someone attacks you you don't have to shoot them in the head. You could probably shoot them in the knee or something. I'm not actually a gun-person...


Actually, guns are harder to shoot than that. Standing still, shooting at a paper target, I'm accurate enough to shoot a knee sized target at some distance. But under stress, with the other person moving, while trying to control and stay on a horse...I couldn't do it. Not reliably, even if very close.

State and national laws vary greatly in when someone can carry a gun or shoot in self-defense. It is important to know those laws. I tend to assume anyone trying to pull someone off of a horse in a remote area intends to kill or cause serious bodily harm, which is legal justification here for killing someone in self-defense. But if you ever have to shoot someone, make sure you HAVE to shoot someone. If you cannot accept killing the other person, do not ever pull the trigger.

Carrying a good knife or machete might be a good option. At a guess, tho, the bad guy is likely to act friendly until close enough to lunge...getting a weapon out may take longer than you have. If I had any advance suspicion, I'd simply ask for a trot or canter and apologize for my horse's 'spookiness' as we go by. Beyond that, I think the video has excellent advice.


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## Celeste

It is much better to get away from a "bad guy" if you can. I personally know that if it comes down to his life or my life, he will have to go. I am worth more than some thug that goes around murdering people.


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## jamesqf

jaydee said:


> Normal people are unlikely to want to come close to a horse & rider


Don't know what you consider normal. I think a lot of people would, like me, want to admire the horse, maybe give him an ear scratch if he's friendly. Same as if I meet dogs on the trail while hiking.


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## iRide Ponies

bsms said:


> Actually, guns are harder to shoot than that. Standing still, shooting at a paper target, I'm accurate enough to shoot a knee sized target at some distance. But under stress, with the other person moving, while trying to control and stay on a horse...I couldn't do it. Not reliably, even if very close.



Ahh well, shows how little I know about shooting!


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## womack29

Great post! I admit this is not something I have ever thought about happening.


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## hemmingwayfan

That's why I avoid public trails, ride in a group, or carry a piece.


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## 6gun Kid

For those of y'all who aren't gun people. A simple, legal, and excellent choice is Raid wasp and hornet spray. shoots up to 20 feet, works like mace/pepper spray, and has no legalities attached to it.


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## thenrie

6gun Kid said:


> For those of y'all who aren't gun people. A simple, legal, and excellent choice is Raid wasp and hornet spray. shoots up to 20 feet, works like mace/pepper spray, and has no legalities attached to it.


Great idea, although to say there are "no legalities attached to it" is over-simplification. You purposely spray somebody in the face with wasp spray, and you can bet there will be legal ramifications, civil suits at least, however, you are right in that there are no prohibitions against carrying it. 

What's more, it's easier for a hesitant person to decide to actually use it than to use a gun. Not only that, but it will be easier for a non-gun person to hit something with it, because you simply direct the spray until it hits the target. The bad part is that the cans are big and would likely be carried in the saddle bags, so getting it out in a hurry would be pretty iffy at best. I suppose one could make a horn bag-type holster for it to make it quick to get out. 

Regardless, it's a great option for those who will not carry a gun, or for places where guns may be prohibited.

A gun in the hands of a person who is not practiced with it, or is hesitant to use it, can end up being worse than not having it in the first place.


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## 6gun Kid

thenrie said:


> Great idea, although to say there are "no legalities attached to it" is over-simplification.


 oh definitely, I was referring to buying a gun and the laws restricting carrying.


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## Ripplewind

I had the opportunity today to desensitize my horse to gunfire while on a trail. A man who works at the farm and his daughter, sons, and their little friends were shooting rifles and shotguns.  My boy didn't like it, but he did not charge or try to bolt. Just a lot of side stepping and spooky faces. When I am old enough, I want to get a handgun to carry along with my regular knife on trails. Yes, awareness is vital to survival, and if I can get away from a bad situation before it happens, I will. But when push comes to shove, I want to be packing, just in case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

EDIT: I was about ten to twenty feet behind the little shooters, and everyone was keeping a close eye on me in case it got ugly, so that they could tell the boys to stop. The three dogs with me all ran back to the farm, but Winny pushed through it and I am very proud of him.


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## santleky

Thank you for sharing this video. It provides some easy maneuvers that anyone can do to help ward off would-be attackers...things that I might not have thought of on my own. I've never had anyone threaten me on the trails, but I'm keenly aware that it's a real possibility. These tips could make a difference in whether someone escapes harm or not. Kudos to you for posting something so helpful to others.


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## 6gun Kid

thenrie said:


> . The bad part is that the cans are big and would likely be carried in the saddle bags, so getting it out in a hurry would be pretty iffy at best.


Maybe one of those water bottle carriers that attach to the horn?


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## AlabamaBelle

iRide Ponies said:


> I just want to point out that many people are talking about if you could or not shoot someone dead-If someone attacks you you don't have to shoot them in the head. You could probably shoot them in the knee or something.


I mean no offense by this, but I would not (and do not) recommend that anyone carry a gun if they don't have it in them to kill someone. If you are being attacked and it's to the point that you are in serious fear for your life, why would you be worried about injuring your attacker? The moment you hesitate and sit there holding the gun, trying to make your mind up if you can do it or not, is the moment you get your gun taken and possibly used on you. If you're not comfortable with that concept, carry a knife/stun gun/ pepper spray/ etc.


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## AlabamaBelle

flcreek1156 said:


> When in doubt-empty the magazine.:shock:


That's right  As a police officer, it cracks me up when people say "Can't you just shoot someone in the knee or shoot the gun out of the guy's hand?" For one, people don't realize how difficult that is (especially when you're in a shooting scenario and your accuracy is decreased by an estimated 40% due to stress). Also, the point of having a gun for self defense and using it (police or not) is to "stop the threat". Watch some videos of police officers in gunfights and you'll se that it's not like the movies where the bad guy goes down after one shot.

Sorry for the rant.......


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## thenrie

I agree 100%. I have been asked numerous times about warning shots. I always answered that I might shoot the first attacker in the chest to warn the second attacker to run away fast! :wink:


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## mnevans

Such a great post! I hope every instructor would show this and use it in their lessons!


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## SueC

Hey, I've only looked at the last page or so here, but I'm shocked: You guys are talking about carrying _*firearms*_ when horse riding??? I'm Australian, and this kind of thing just doesn't occur to the riders I've known here (or in Europe). Is your country that much more dangerous than Australia? Do trail riders frequently meet with a sticky end where you are?

Self defence when solo trail _*walking*_, I get it, and carry pepper spray and a phone. Nearly used the pepper spray once too when followed by a loonie on a tourist trail, then fortuitously ran into a group of tourists I could stick with. But trail _*riding*_, I always feel my best advantage is my horse. Noone on foot or in a 4WD is going to catch my horses past and present on a trail, and I don't let anyone near enough to get near reins, and they'd get a good kick from up high if they tried. Only trail bikes give me the heebiejeebies, because that really could get hairy. But how'd you have an advantage with a gun if a trailbike chased you? How could you even shoot?

Please excuse my puzzlement.


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## Saddlebag

My good trail horse would have had no qualms about mowing someone over if asked. If someone tries to intimidate someone with threats to shoot, even if unarmed, our police take this very seriously. A poacher threatened a land owner, not with a gun but threatened his health. He was ultimately charged with trespass and uttering threats. Can't come back in to Canada as uttering threats is a criminal conviction.


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## Darrin

SueC said:


> Hey, I've only looked at the last page or so here, but I'm shocked: You guys are talking about carrying _*firearms*_ when horse riding??? I'm Australian, and this kind of thing just doesn't occur to the riders I've known here (or in Europe). Is your country that much more dangerous than Australia? Do trail riders frequently meet with a sticky end where you are?
> 
> Self defence when solo trail _*walking*_, I get it, and carry pepper spray and a phone. Nearly used the pepper spray once too when followed by a loonie on a tourist trail, then fortuitously ran into a group of tourists I could stick with. But trail _*riding*_, I always feel my best advantage is my horse. Noone on foot or in a 4WD is going to catch my horses past and present on a trail, and I don't let anyone near enough to get near reins, and they'd get a good kick from up high if they tried. Only trail bikes give me the heebiejeebies, because that really could get hairy. But how'd you have an advantage with a gun if a trailbike chased you? How could you even shoot?
> 
> Please excuse my puzzlement.


All depends on where you ride. Lots of people ride in suburban areas and yeah, there are quite a few sickos around. This problem goes back to our revolving door policy with criminals. We are constantly releasing people from jail that shouldn't be to make more room...Then the lack of taking care of our mentally ill. Now I haven't personally heard of to many cases where horse riders have been attacked but it does happen along.

Out in the wilderness the bigger problem walk on 4 legs or crawl. You Aussies are familiar with crawlers (snakes) but not so much with the 4 legged critters. We have bears, cougars, and such. Given an opportunity they usually go the other way but if provoked, hungry or protecting their young they'll attack. Popping a few rounds off usually convinces them to go another direction. What you can't do is outrun them in their territory. Running kicks in their chase instincts and I can guarantee you that in most places they can outrun you and your horse.

There is also the 2 legged illegal pot growing operation and meth cookers. These guys will shoot, shovel and shut up if you stumble across their operations. Where are they? Out in the middle of nowhere on government lands, the same place many of us like to ride in. Last thing you want to be is unarmed when you accidently stumble across their operation. The first thing you want to do is get the h**l out of there if you do.


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## SueC

Wow! Well, I'm glad we don't have bears or fast large carnivores here. We have the same revolving door system with criminals, in fact don't put many away that should be as well, so my sympathies. Hmm yes, meth labs, I've seen _*Breaking Bad*_. Actually when I was a teenager I was on a trail endurance training my mare when I came across people acting suspiciously. I didn't go anywhere near them but turned and raced my mare out of there, into the forest where I could not be followed by 4WD if they tried (I didn't hang around to see what they would do). I reported it to the police and they found a pot-growing operation. Not sure if that is profitable enough or criminal enough for people to kill for over here, but meth certainly would be. Something else to think about when riding solo on our Crown land... but hey, they'd have to disappear the horse as well, I mean, if my horse came back without me and I couldn't be found the search for me would probably uncover any illegal operations in the area, unless it's by RV...


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## gunslinger

I sure hope we don't wind up like Australia.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SueC

Whatever do you mean? I generally feel safe riding on trails here, and there hadn't been any megafauna in the country for thousands of years, and the ones we have now are imported herbivores. So I'm grateful I've never been in a situation where I would seriously have to consider carrying a firearm on a horse.


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## gunslinger

I mean, I hope we don't get stripped of our liberty like Australia did.

Many of the gun forums I read have a few Aussies complaining about the way the gun situation went in Australia.


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## Dustbunny

Another reason for carrying a gun...it allows the rider to put the horse out of its misery in case of a broken leg or serous injury. If you are miles into the wilderness there is no chance for a vet call.


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## SueC

gunslinger said:


> I mean, I hope we don't get stripped of our liberty like Australia did.
> 
> Many of the gun forums I read have a few Aussies complaining about the way the gun situation went in Australia.


Oh, that's what you mean! Well, farmers can still have guns, and do, and people who are attached to gun clubs, get licenses and are of good character in the sense of not having criminal convictions or a history of domestic or social violence. The tightening of gun laws in this country has actually brought down significantly the death rate from accidental shootings, and we've not had another Port Arthur Massacre, which it was a response to. In theory those massacres are of course still possible, because previously sane people can go off the rails and because insane people can still get weapons if they have money.

Our biggest complaint here is that it is still possible for the wrong types of people to get guns illegally, and that they don't get thrown in shark-infested waters when they do...

Our neighbours are in the gun club and haven't any complaints. Just telling you the story from a wider perspective than what our gun forums will tell you! We have a lot of ******** in Australia who hang out on gun forums and they are more likely to whinge about weapons restrictions. Some of them probably shouldn't have guns.

The level of gun-related violence here per capita is so much lower than in the US, so we don't have that many people who think that our liberties are being unacceptably restricted. We kind of like not getting shot. ;-)


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## Dustbunny

"Our biggest complaint here is that it is still possible for the wrong types of people to get guns illegally, and that they don't get thrown in shark-infested waters when they do..."

Bingo!!!!
I do like the shark-infested waters idea...


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## SueC

We could get a somewhat cyclical food chain that way, like this:

Algae --> Generic Little Fish --> Generic Medium Fish --> Human (Criminal) --> Shark --> Human (Citizen eating Fish& Chips)

This model is for a fish-eating criminal. It might be fun constructing others.


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## luvmyhorses

I go on a lot of trail rides.. and I like to take my horse out sometimes just by ourselves and I always think what if ...there is always hikers out by themselves they don't always look like the average hiker... I def like the spinning of my horse .. he is 16.1 with a good size rump..:wink:


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## ZombieHorseChick

Dang it I can't watch the video :3 But it has crossed my mind before about encountering not so nice, and even possibly dangerous, people on trails or in woods; where I am drug deals are done pretty often in the areas surrounding. 
( not my neighbors or my woods luckily though, that's where I ride most often.)


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## mmcleodk

I did martial arts for 12ish years (Muay Thai, Judo and Submission wrestling as well as some specific self defense training)

Best thing to do is keep and maintain distance with the attacker (unless they have a gun) Being on horseback you are more than capable of outrunning them. If they grab on just keep kicking them in the face/hands until they release while your horse starts running (grab your saddle, mane whatever you need to to not fall off, and do not put the reins anywhere near them).

Thats for humans mind you  Dogs/bears if you're way out in the country bearspray might be the way to go.


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## apachetears

*Pitbull attack*

Last week a pitbull that lives next door came out to attack me and Bud.
He has attack me and Rye before, Rye the mare is more tolerant of dogs and simply trotted on down the road at my urging.
Bud though, unless it's our dogs he goes after them.
So old Bud meets this pitbull and takes off suddenly with me aboard chasing the yelping dog back into his yard and over the hill before I could halt him.
Had he caught the dog he would have run him down, bit him and most likely stomped him to death.
------
Attacked by a human I plan on riding down my assailant, over the perp and then escape.
For my self defense weapon I carry a 1000 pound quarter horse.
The Big Knife is for back up.


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## Dustbunny

apachetears said:


> Had he caught the dog he would have run him down, bit him and most likely stomped him to death.
> ------
> Attacked by a human I plan on riding down my assailant, over the perp and then escape.
> For my self defense weapon I carry a 1000 pound quarter horse.
> The Big Knife is for back up.


Then after Bud finished with the dog he could have started in on the owner...


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## lsdrider

apachetears said:


> Last week a pitbull that lives next door came out to attack me and Bud.
> He has attack me and Rye before, Rye the mare is more tolerant of dogs and simply trotted on down the road at my urging.
> Bud though, unless it's our dogs he goes after them.
> So old Bud meets this pitbull and takes off suddenly with me aboard chasing the yelping dog back into his yard and over the hill before I could halt him.
> Had he caught the dog he would have run him down, bit him and most likely stomped him to death.


Some of the most fun I've ever had on a horse was a mare that would run down any dog heading our way. Point and go, it was GAME ON! And oh the looks on owners faces when big bad bowser did a 180, put his tail between his legs and headed for home!

My fave SD is the Ruger Flattop .44 Special but the SR40c sees more saddle time as it is smaller, lighter and has more firepower (as if it'll ever matter, lol). I stop and plink a fair amount - that is the primary use of the pistol.


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## lsdrider

apachetears said:


> Last week a pitbull that lives next door came out to attack me and Bud.
> He has attack me and Rye before, Rye the mare is more tolerant of dogs and simply trotted on down the road at my urging.
> Bud though, unless it's our dogs he goes after them.
> So old Bud meets this pitbull and takes off suddenly with me aboard chasing the yelping dog back into his yard and over the hill before I could halt him.
> Had he caught the dog he would have run him down, bit him and most likely stomped him to death.


Some of the most fun I've ever had on a horse was a mare that would run down any dog heading our way. Point and go, it was GAME ON! And oh the looks on owners faces when big bad bowser did a 180, put his tail between his legs and headed for home!

My fave SD is the Ruger Flattop .44 Special but the SR40c sees more saddle time as it is smaller, lighter and has more firepower (as if it'll ever matter, lol). I stop and plink a fair amount - that is the primary use of the pistol.


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## rideprosperously

I am surprised that nobody has commented on this thread for more than 90 days! Thank you so much for sharing this information, where can I find more information on self-defence with/on the horse?


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## apachetears

O. K. I had my first horse riding encounter where self defense became an option.
I was riding the area behind my house I have cut out with bridal paths through the woods (My Land) as I rode down close to my neighbors fence line I encountered his happy hound dog I call Brownie she is a doll escorts me and the horse along the fence line occasionally barking. No problems there!
Suddenly she went all aggressive, came close to me and Rye siding with us looking ahead of us and was vicious, I said Brownie what is it?
Then I rounded the turn and there was a man 1400 feet from any road trespassing on my land. I told Brownie to scram and rode at a trot right up to him which stopped him in his tracks, I asked him what he was doing way back here on my land, he said taking a short cut. I said from where and he named a house two miles away, "some short cut" I was as I always do wearing orange during hunting season but aside from a knife I was unarmed.
The horse intimidated him though.
I took out my cell phone and took his picture, told him some facts.
1. My neighbor will shoot him dead if he crosses into his pasture.
2. It is hunting season and you are wandering these woods without orange and some hunter will shoot you thinking you are a deer.
3. I will take this picture to the sheriff and have you arrested for trespassing if anything turns up missing, you come back or harm or damage any animal or property.
Still horse back I escorted him to the fence line and told him please for your safety don't come back on my property and for God's sake wear orange, and to get the hell off my land! He ran way.
I asked the Neighbor who informed me he had three trespassers this year and had two of them involve him drawing his handgun ( he, like me, is a former Marine) and he had one arrested at gun point, he has had gear stolen and fires set and his cows/Bull turned loose, he said kids are one thing but for a grown man to do such is subject to arrest if not gun fire.
I now carry my wife's S&W M-640 a little hammer-less five shot, stainless snub nose loaded with .38 spl 110 gr JHP.
I carry it in a pocket of my jeans, or vest in cold the coat pocket.
I kept pressure up on the man with the horse always in his face but out of reach, had I not been horse back, wearing hunting orange so he didn't know whether I was armed or not or near enough to my neighbors house I do not know what would have happened.
I wonder how he got where he was, he had to cross three property lines each posted, he had to literally walk right down my other neighbors driveway and past his secluded in the woods house with his wife there home alone and he was standing within 40 feet of three posted signs.
In my area inside two miles there are five registered sex offenders, three child molesters and two rapist, they don't list violent offenders or robbery convicted.

I now carry a handgun when I ride now on my property at least.


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## Dustbunny

Hopefully you made a believer out of him.
Happy Thanksgiving.


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## ChitChatChet

Dustbunny said:


> Another reason for carrying a gun...it allows the rider to put the horse out of its misery in case of a broken leg or serous injury. If you are miles into the wilderness there is no chance for a vet call.


That. IMO its a smart thing to do.


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## gunslinger

apachetears said:


> I wonder how he got where he was, he had to cross three property lines each posted, he had to literally walk right down my other neighbors driveway and past his secluded in the woods house with his wife there home alone and he was standing within 40 feet of three posted signs.
> I now carry a handgun when I ride now on my property at least.


1. He can't read. Georgia pubic schools?
2. He can read, but chose to ignore the no trespassing signs?
3. He's very curious?
4. He's up to no good?
5. He thinks words don't really mean what they say?
6. *"I now carry a handgun"*....Heck, I thought everyone did.....especially in Georgia.


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