# What Type Of Paint/Pinto??



## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Hi guys! This is our new horse we are getting. He's a 3 year old grade pinto. What type of "paint" is he? And would he be considered a bay and white pinto? In person he looked sun faded to me so it was hard to determine his shade of brown. I have a few more pics if needed.


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## CrossCountry (May 18, 2013)

Overo?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

A lot of folks will call that "overo" which is essentially a catch-all phrase meaning "not Tobiano". 
I am not a color expert, but to me he looks to be carrying Sabino and Frame. Maybe Splash.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

If he were registered, he would be Overo.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm with karliejay. Frame, sabino and probably splash. I think the splash is causing the leg white (frame most certainly doesn't like leg white) and that (mostly) bald face says splash, to me. 

For color, unless you have him genetically tested, I'd call him bay and white. It's possible he's brown or faded black. The pics are kind of dark, so it's difficult to tell for sure, plus most of the places we'd use to distinguish brown from bay are covered with white.


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Here's two more pics that I was sent that might be a tad bit brighter. I'm going to go Google splash, frame and sabino. Thanks y'all!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Okay, I'm changing my color guess.

He actually looks either buckskin or brown-based buckskin (brownskin) in those better-lit pics.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Looks like a buckskin overo. Probably has the sooty or brown modifier. At first I thought grullo, but he lacks the dorsal stripe.

Love the dapples!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Agree with buckskin. (Maybe brownskin but I don't think so)

He also looks to have rabicano (white on tail head) does he also have white flecking on his flank separate from the pinto? It may be hard to tell lol.

He has plenty of color but all the "important" spots are white 

He's cute and looks gentle.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm going to stab at it and say Frame, Splash, Sabino for the various White causing patterns. And, I'll buck the trend and say I think he's going to darken up over winter if he's not in the sun and turn out to be a Bay Overo (kitchen sink term for everything NOT Tobiano). Oh and I agree with the possible Roan or Rabicano too.


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Essentially, he's a party mix of pinto genes! And I wanted to add but forgot, he is just lovely!


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks everyone for their input. I guess winter and early spring will help shed some light on his color. I'll post pics of his winter coat when it comes in. He seems to be quite gentle and has been exposed to a lot. The lady I'm getting him from has only had him 2 months and the previous owner had him since birth. I'm hoping to be able to possibly call her to see if she has info on his dam and sire. I'm going to now go Google all the paint and color terms yall used. Lol Thanks again.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I'm going to say frame + splash or some other white spotting mutation, true sabino(sb1) is rare in the stock breeds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

fkcb1988 said:


> Hi guys! This is our new horse we are getting. He's a 3 year old grade pinto. What type of "paint" is he?


Okay, just to let you know that pinto and paint are not interchangeable. Not all pintos are paints and not all paints are pintos. Paint is a breed that is focused on pinto coloring, out crosses with AQHA and jockey club only. As your pinto is grade, he cannot be a paint. Pinto can be of any breed, cross and unknown parentage, just means they have white patches beyond normal socks and facial markings. 

Your boy is definitely a frame overo, likely to also have expressions of splash and/or sabino. Those are the genes that are causing his white patches, they play together with their own likes and dislikes of how they behave when creating white pinto patterns. Frame loves horizontal movement, to keep white from passing over the back between withers and tail, it also doesn't like white on the legs. Splash is bottom heavy, makes clean/smooth edges to the markings, looks like the horse ran through a puddle of white paint, prefers taller socks on the front legs. Sabino is messy, but likes facial markings to be centered, the edges will be jagged and random white hairs all over the place, prefers taller hind socks. There is no limit on how many different white genes can be passed to a horse from their parents, and it is all random on how they will express which is why cloned horses don't have the same markings as the original. 

Is it possible to get pictures of him as a foal? Or from other times of the year? That would tell a lot about his color and if he fades. These aren't the best pictures for telling coat color, just coat pattern. He could be a bay pinto, a brown pinto, a really badly faded black pinto, a buckskin pinto or a brownskin pinto... Even a current picture in midday full sun would be better for coat color ;-)


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks! When I bring him home I'm going to get some better pics. I'm going to try to get a hold of his original owner. I'd love to see baby pics of him and get more back ground info. I'll definitely post here. I'd like to get the right terminology for his markings and color so when I talk about him I don't look like goob.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

he is cute . does his coat have any red sheen to it? if not, then I would not call him bay.
the color on his head is dun looking. I would call him a dunskin pinto/paint.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

stevenson said:


> he is cute . does his coat have any red sheen to it? if not, then I would not call him bay.
> the color on his head is dun looking. I would call him a dunskin pinto/paint.


All the posted pictures were done in very low light, I would guess around sunset. When the sun is low, you change the appearance of all colors. Just look at how long those shadows are. In that kind of light, you can make a non faded black horse look like they are badly faded. Nothing is accurate for colors... And to be dunskin, he would need a dorsal... And again he cannot be a paint, just a pinto ;-)


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

fkcb1988 said:


> I'd like to get the right terminology for his markings and color so when I talk about him I don't look like goob.


I wouldn't worry about looking like a goob for not getting his color 100% correct. MANY long time horsemen, vets, and other professionals have no clue about color genetics, especially when it comes to pinto and appy colors!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

karliejaye said:


> I wouldn't worry about looking like a goob for not getting his color 100% correct. MANY long time horsemen, vets, and other professionals have no clue about color genetics, especially when it comes to pinto and appy colors!


Or even basic colors. Remember the thread recently where the poster had a colt that was most likely buckskin or dunskin and the colt's breeder said to register him as a red dun? :lol:


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thanks guys! Now days you have to worry about being so politically and terminology correct with everything you talk about especially on the net or you will look and be treated like goob. I guess as long as I don't refer to him as a tri color Indian horse I should be good then??? Lol

There seems to be no red in his brown at all. It's very....bland/dull. When I first saw him I went straight to sun faded cause it has that kind of look. However where he is at now he is in a paddock with a big tree over head. Previously to two months ago though I have no idea how he was kept. It's Texas and the sun is harsh and hot. I have to get better midday pics of him asap.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

fkcb1988 said:


> Thanks guys! Now days you have to worry about being so politically and terminology correct with everything you talk about especially on the net or you will look and be treated like goob. I guess as long as I don't refer to him as a tri color Indian horse I should be good then??? Lol .


Refer to him as pinto. Paint is a breed and you need to know he has the credentials to be called a Paint. Calling a colored horse Paint due to coat pattern is like calling every foal a colt even if it's female. Or like calling a horse a thoroughbred when what one means purebred. It's a pain but, well, if you want to be correct.......

You could safely refer to him as a stock type with a pinto coat pattern (I will leave the exact color up to the others here), and a very nice boy!:wink:

To further confuse the issue Pinto is a breed but based on color and can be horses of many different registered and non-registered breeds. It's a can of worms! LOL But, whatever, you are safe calling him pinto. (I think)


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Dustbunny said:


> To further confuse the issue Pinto is a breed but based on color and can be horses of many different registered and non-registered breeds. It's a can of worms! LOL But, whatever, you are safe calling him pinto. (I think)


Pinto horse association (PtHA) isn't a breed registry, it is purely a color registry ;-)

Just like there are registries for palominos and buckskins, all color registries... Registering a horse by color and not by breed, so those registries are simply color registries 

And as a side note, the OP's 3 year old grade gelding could be registered with PtHA as a hardship registration with no known parentage ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thank you! I had no intention though on calling him a paint or referring to him as such, hence why in my original post I said grade pinto and put "paint" in quotations for more of a cheeky reference. I'm feel I'm still a novice at identifying pattern and color but before joining this forum I knew basic patterns and colors. The good thing about being on here is all the things you can learn and become more knowledgeable about. I've read so many threads on genetics and usually about half way through the thread my brain turns to mush and starts reading jiberish. Lol. I really appreciate all y'alls input and knowledge.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

SunnyDraco said:


> Pinto horse association (PtHA) isn't a breed registry, it is purely a color registry ;-)
> 
> Just like there are registries for palominos and buckskins, all color registries... Registering a horse by color and not by breed, so those registries are simply color registries
> 
> ...


What! Since when? Can any horse be registered?


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

I actually was going to ask about the PtHA. That's good to know. Since there is no money being exchanged for him and he's not registered, my husband is a little concerned about how we show ownership. I was going to write up a simple "bill of sale" or something along the lines for him.


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

fkcb1988 said:


> I actually was going to ask about the PtHA. That's good to know. Since there is no money being exchanged for him and he's not registered, my husband is a little concerned about how we show ownership. I was going to write up a simple "bill of sale" or something along the lines for him.


I HIGHLY recommend you give the previous owners like $10, write a bill of sale, have both parties sign it. Make a copy, keep one copy in your records and mail the other to yourself. When you get the mailed copy DO NOT open it. Leave it sealed and file it away. The sealed, postmarked envelope will help you out if a dispute occurs down the line.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> What! Since when? Can any horse be registered?


As long as they don't have any obvious draft blood, yes. My guy can't be registered with the PtHA because he is too obviously drafty. :lol:

Registration


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

That's a good idea. Thank you very much!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> As long as they don't have any obvious draft blood, yes. My guy can't be registered with the PtHA because he is too obviously drafty. :lol:
> 
> Registration


Yep, no draft or Appy blood/traits for registration. 

Hardship/undocumented registration costs $125 and is open for mares and geldings, unless you are hardship registering minis and then the rules on registering stallions this way bends. 

http://www.pinto.org/downloads/Registration/16_registration%20form.pdf
Right side of the page lists registration costs ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

SunnyDraco said:


> Pinto horse association (PtHA) isn't a breed registry, it is purely a color registry ;-)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Correct!!!! Color registry not breed. My error in stating "breed."


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> As long as they don't have any obvious draft blood, yes. My guy can't be registered with the PtHA because he is too obviously drafty. :lol:
> 
> Registration


 They got something against BIG?
Well, that sounds like discrimination to me!
Could be the beginning of a "movement"
We need signs. We need marches.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

"PtHA can also register horse mares and geldings based on their color alone as well as any sex of ponies and minis."

Here's the basic text of a bill of sale that you can use to show transfer of ownership. To make it easy, give them $1 for the horse as purchase price. 

This agreement made this ______ day of ______________, by and between _______________________ , hereafter referred to as “Seller” and ______________________, hereafter referred to as “Buyer”.

The parties hereby acknowledge that this agreement is made for the purchase and sale of ______________________________ (description of horse), known as ________________________________(horse name).


A. Seller guarantees that he has full power to sell the animal, the title is clear and free 
from liens and is unencumbered, and further, he will defend the same against the 
claim or claims of all persons whomsoever.

B. Buyer agrees to purchase the animal as is and agrees that significant issues have
been discussed to their satisfaction. 

C. This bill of sale represents the entire agreement between the parties. No other 
agreements or promises, verbal or implied are included unless specifically stated
in this written agreement. 

D. This bill of sale is entered into in the State of _________________, __________________County and shell be
Enforced and interpreted under the laws of this state and county. 

As consideration Buyer agrees to pay the amount of $___________ 
US Currency in cash as payment in full for ______________________ horse. 

Purchaser accepts the Horse by signing this Bill of Sale, and risk of loss passes immediately. Purchaser is immediately responsible for all veterinary, farrier and transportation expenses after the date hereof. Purchaser is immediately liable for any damage or injury caused by Horse to Seller or any third party. 



____________________________________________
Buyer’s Signature & Date



____________________________________________
Seller’s Signature & Date


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Darn, Sky has draft blood from size of head alone lol


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Dustbunny said:


> They got something against BIG?
> Well, that sounds like discrimination to me!
> Could be the beginning of a "movement"
> We need signs. We need marches.


I'll take up that movement!! It is blatant discrimination!! Why shouldn't my horse be registerable in ANY registry I want, just because he's a big boy with draft blood in him!! :lol: :icon_rolleyes:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Wait they register minis but not drafts? Weird.


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Here's some pics I've taken for, hopefully, a better reference to his color.


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Heres more. Sorry some are coming out sideways. I'm not really sure why they are doing that. Hope these help a little more.


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

I know nothing about color, and I have no idea what he should be called, but I just want to say he is CUTE. 
M


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Thank you!! He's super sweet and cute. My boys, 8 and 6, and I were out just petting him today. He was so relaxed and started to fall asleep. If we stopped rubbing him, he'd lean his head over and look at us like "Hey you can't stop. Keep going." Lol


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

He sure looks buckskin/brownskin in most of those photos


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