# Would you give joint injections to a 6yo reiner as a preventative measure?



## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

NO!! Once you start those it's an endless cycle and will actually over time cause more harm to tissue than the benefit it's intended for.

Don't make him/her an old horse before their time.. look into other things as glucosamine, etc


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

Don't comprimise a joint with injections unless necessary. Did someone seriously suggest you do knees "preventatively"? Why replace healthy synovial fluid with artificial? Injecting is not a risk free procedure.
Are your horses knees showing signs of soreness? I don't think injecting a knee is a part or being a reiner, as much as it doesn't have to be part of being a racehorse. I've had plenty of racehorses NOT have their knees done and be successful, and IMO, racing is far harder on the knees (we specialize in trotters).
If it does become necessary to inject after exhausting all other treatment regiments (including oral supplements, glucosamine IM, hosing, chiropractic, magnets etc etc), look into the best vet and the best injection. My personal fave is the HI 50 with 1cc cort to help with cooling.
JMO...


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

Yes, several people suggested it to use as a preventative measure in another thread. To be fair, they didn't know the age of the horse, but they did know it was for prevention only.

I was told oral supplements are useless, and I'm not discounting glucosamine IM... is that not considered a joint injection?

Does it actually *replace *the healthy fluid? How can that be helpful, even on a horse with very little healthy fluid?


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

Injectable glucosamine is of more benefit than oral.. oral only 40% actually gets absorbed. No, glucosamine is not a joint injection persay.. glucosamine is something that rebuilds tissue.

I was 'assuming' you were talking about actual Depo hock and or knee injections... apologies if I misunderstood


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

qtrhrsecrazy said:


> Injectable glucosamine is of more benefit than oral.. oral only 40% actually gets absorbed. No, glucosamine is not a joint injection persay.. glucosamine is something that rebuilds tissue.
> 
> I was 'assuming' you were talking about actual Depo hock and or knee injections... apologies if I misunderstood


That's okay. So, there are no negative effects of glucosamine injections? If glucosamine "rebuilds" tissue, would it be useless to use as a preventative measure?


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

I wouldn't call glucosamine a "joint injection". Going into the joint capsule, expelling the old fluid and putting in a new fluid (cort, HI 5o, etc) is injecting the joint. Glucosamine IM I would think of as preventative, but maybe a little overboard. If she is perfectly sound, well -shod, not overworked I would save your money for those expensive sliding plates when the time comes! Just keep an eye one her overall soundness, and if you think it's necessary, do the IM. I try ro follow the "less is more" phillosophy with stuff like that.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

CloudsMystique said:


> That's okay. So, there are no negative effects of glucosamine injections? If glucosamine "rebuilds" tissue, would it be useless to use as a preventative measure?


Glucosamine is safe - google it and research it is my best advice to you along with your vets input. I couldn't tell you as far as a 'preventative'. It certainly won't hurt, but as far as to actually prevent problems, no idea.

I have given it to mine after problem onset.. seemed to help but again could have been coincedence.

Stay away from Depomedrol unless it's an absolute have to


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

shesinthebarn said:


> I wouldn't call glucosamine a "joint injection". Going into the joint capsule, expelling the old fluid and putting in a new fluid (cort, HI 5o, etc) is injecting the joint. Glucosamine IM I would think of as preventative, but maybe a little overboard. If she is perfectly sound, well -shod, not overworked I would save your money for those expensive sliding plates when the time comes! Just keep an eye one her overall soundness, and if you think it's necessary, do the IM. I try ro follow the "less is more" phillosophy with stuff like that.


Okay, that sounds good. Thanks so much : ]


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

qtrhrsecrazy said:


> Glucosamine is safe - google it and research it is my best advice to you along with your vets input. I couldn't tell you as far as a 'preventative'. It certainly won't hurt, but as far as to actually prevent problems, no idea.
> 
> I have given it to mine after problem onset.. seemed to help but again could have been coincedence.
> 
> Stay away from Depomedrol unless it's an absolute have to


Okay... thanks for the the info!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I use injectable Gluecosamine for all my reiners and have for years. It is what is needed for the horses body to rebuild and add the needed liquid with in the joint. All the other types of injections be it IV IM or injected into the hocks are limited in what they do and how long they will work. As they do not give the body what they need to repair the joint naturally they are a quite fix which if you need a quick fix then use them. However if you can go about it a bit slower or as a preventative then Injectable Gluecosamine is the way to go.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> I use injectable Gluecosamine for all my reiners and have for years. It is what is needed for the horses body to rebuild and add the needed liquid with in the joint. All the other types of injections be it IV IM or injected into the hocks are limited in what they do and how long they will work. As they do not give the body what they need to repair the joint naturally they are a quite fix which if you need a quick fix then use them. However if you can go about it a bit slower or as a preventative then Injectable Gluecosamine is the way to go.


So glucosamine IM can be used for as long as you want?


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I think joint injections must be a very American thing - I had never even heard of them except for bad arthritis cases before I joined this forum. The ASH world does similar work to reiners and most don't get injections - And ASH generally compete and work well into their 20's.

I don't know anything about joint injections etc, so this is just an opinion, but I would be wary of injecting anythign that wasn't necessary, and from what I have seen here in Australia with Stock Horses, it isn't really necessary unless the horse is pre-disposed to joint issues. I think good management is of more importance.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

CloudsMystique said:


> So glucosamine IM can be used for as long as you want?



Yes it is no different then the feed through except it all goes to work in the horses body and a lot faster. Once I get the loading dose done I only use in once a month sometime 2 times a month if I am really working and showing the horse. When I was talking to the Vet I get it from about it he said that you could use it everyday and what the horse did not need would pass through their system but there are very very few horses that need it that often most not even weekly.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> Yes it is no different then the feed through except it all goes to work in the horses body and a lot faster. Once I get the loading dose done I only use in once a month sometime 2 times a month if I am really working and showing the horse. When I was talking to the Vet I get it from about it he said that you could use it everyday and what the horse did not need would pass through their system but there are very very few horses that need it that often most not even weekly.


Okay, cool. About how much does it cost?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I think Anabel and I explained all this in your other thread in the Health section.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> I think Anabel and I explained all this in your other thread in the Health section.


Sorry, I forgot you had told me the price. The reason I posted it here was to ask about using them specifically with reiners. Then I kind of got off topic...

I'm definitely going to go with the glucosamine IM. If there aren't any downsides, I don't see why I shouldn't.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I pay about $15 a dose.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

CloudsMystique said:


> Sorry, I forgot you had told me the price. The reason I posted it here was to ask about using them specifically with reiners. Then I kind of got off topic...
> 
> I'm definitely going to go with the glucosamine IM. If there aren't any downsides, I don't see why I shouldn't.


Lol I must have heard my name 

Joint injections are a big no-no unless you are dealing with navicular, founder, etc.. or any pre-existing joint disease. Injecting intra-articular (IA) drugs has a lot of risks (although it will not degenerate the joint unless you are injecting with steroids). These risks of infection and other serious side effects generally outweigh the benefits when we are dealing with prevention.

Injecting intra-muscular (IM) or intra-veinous (IV) drugs generally does not have the same risk involved because you are not injecting directly into the joint capsule. There are three drugs that people generally inject these ways: Glucosamine IM, Legend (HA) IV and Adequan (PSGAG) IM. Each of these drugs has a different mechanism and a different level of effectiveness. Time and time again the combination of Legend and Adequan injected monthly has been proven to be the most effective regime to both prevent and treat joint disease. Although expensive (around $75-$150 per month per horse) it is the most highly recommended joint disease prevention routine. Injecting with these drugs does not cause joint degeneration, or dependence. As I like to say "you get what you pay for". I am not sure that glucosamine IM is the most effective route to go, but to each their own.

However, injecting anything in any way with steroidal anti inflammatories should be used as a last resort as it is usually illegal in show horses, and damages the joint - causing dependence.

Good luck!


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Lol I must have heard my name
> 
> Joint injections are a big no-no unless you are dealing with navicular, founder, etc.. or any pre-existing joint disease. Injecting intra-articular (IA) drugs has a lot of risks (although it will not degenerate the joint unless you are injecting with steroids). These risks of infection and other serious side effects generally outweigh the benefits when we are dealing with prevention.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much! I'm going to talk to my vet about it.

Oh, and I really didn't mean the IA injections when I said "joint injections"... I didn't realize the other IM and IV injections weren't considered "joint injections".


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