# is horseback riding vegan?



## 247001 (Feb 16, 2017)

I came across a post on Facebook that had a picture of a horse with the caption "keep your butt off of my back" from some vegan humor page. The horse people obviously defended themselves and made good points. A majority of the non-horse people vegans kept saying "would you ride a dog? no? horses are no different." and they pretty much just kept on repeating that line over and over. I checked out one of the posters page that was against riding and shes a total hypocrite, lol. Found pictures of her riding.

This post in no way is meant to be bashing anyone... I am just curious as to what people in this community have to say about this controversial subject lol (I am vegeterian, will probably be vegan at some point in the future)


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## Luce73 (Dec 7, 2012)

Being vegan as far as I know just means you dont consume animal products... but ok. Say that involves any 'unnatural' things you can do with animals

I bet 99% of vegans have pets, as most tend to be animal lovers (from what i've seen, generalizing here). Is keeping a dog or a cat in an apartment and making it eat catfood natural? no. Is it abusive or detrimental to the animal? As long as they get enough excersize and mental stimulation: NO. SO its the same with a horse! Except that riding it is our way of giving them that excersize and mental stimulation they need. 

Just my opinion, not vegan or vegetarian, but I see way too many 'animal protectors' taking this protection and loving stuff way too far. Riding a horse is not abuse, as long as the horses' wellbeing is put first. (Healthy, trained, sound, appropiate size for rider etc)


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

I think it depends on how you personally define vegan. Theoretically, one could take a hard line against any kind of working animal. No guide dogs. No therapy pets. No search and rescue animals. No herding dogs, retrievers, pointers... I think -- personally -- there is a point where it's taking "rules" into the realm of absurdity. Many domesticated animals LOVE having jobs to do. Horses included!

If you want to personally define it as "doing no harm" to animals, then I think riding can and should be acceptable. Horses who are worked regularly benefit greatly: physically from the fitness, and mentally from the interaction. Horses who are worked regularly also tend to stay sound and healthy much later into their lives, and have a better quality of life. I've seen a lot of semi-neglected backyard pet horses that are never ridden or used, and I think their lives are worse, not better.

Ultimately, if you go vegan, do it YOUR way, in a way that makes sense to you. It's your own personal lifestyle choice, not an organized religion (though sometimes people seem to want to make everyone think it is).


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Here is how I see it. I love horses. If horses wouldn't be ridden, very few would want a five hundred dollar a month bill just to look at them. So what would happen to all the excess horses? They'd probably end up on a plate or in a dog food can somewhere...so by riding, I save the life of a horse!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

All I can say, I don't even read things by these wing nuts, out on the extreme end of any issue, where their dogma out ranks any practical benefit to the animals themselves
What does concern me, is some of these urban yuppies, often removed from any practical animal husbandry , have a huge voice that impacts those that actually deal with true animal welfare and management.
The slaughter ban on horses is a prime example, with those activists thinking they have done a super job, yet don't bother to find out how that impacts horses.
Many of those horses that would have gone to slaughter, instead, wind up abused, neglected and starved
Far better to have lobbied for humane slaughter, transport and some sort of control on breeding, as random breeding fuels the slaughter market
Likewise, vegans can campaign for humane horse training, riding , ect, versus some stupid ideology that has a negative impact to the very creature they hope in their mis guided ways to benifit


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## Chapter (Aug 25, 2014)

I'm a vegan. I ride horses. If that makes me not a vegan by someones definition, so be it. Don't feel the need to have to explain yourself to other vegans or non vegans for that matter. 

I would however, like to point out that there is a difference between a vegan lifestyle and a vegan diet.


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## PaisleysMom (Feb 22, 2017)

Ugh. People like that make me crazy. If we didn’t ride our horses – what would the point be? I love and adore my horse, and when he is old and too frail to ride I will be happy to still enjoy him on the ground. But I wouldn’t buy a horse that I couldn’t ride from the start. Horses used to serve a vital societal function that is now replaced, so certainly horses are more of a hobby. I don’t think people would want to feed them if they received nothing in return. So many lessons barns in my area would be totally shut down. I bet the number of horses being sent to slaughter would shoot up dramatically. 

I feel similarly about city carriage horses. Big draft horses serve little purpose outside of hauling a carriage. Sure you can ride them, but why would I buy a draft horse to ride that costs double the amount to feed than a nice grade QH? If those families and businesses are forced to shut down their carriage rides – they would have no money to actually feed and take care of their horses. Drafts would sell for a lot more in slaughter. Most city carriage horses are very well cared for – yet people only search for the ugly stories.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Do vegans use leather tack?


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

While I am not vegan or vegetarian and no plans to ever be so, I understand that Veganism is more about diet – choosing not to consume any animal-based product. I do think that it has been adopted as a platform to preach on by some extremists, however, so any time you see something like this, all I will say is “Consider the source”. 

I do know a number of vegans who ride and work with horses daily, and it doesn’t seem to impact how they feel about their animals or their passion for riding- not any more than my ketogenic (heavily animal protein-based) diet affects how I feel about my animals or my passion for working with horses. We can choose to view it as the choice we’ve made for our bodies and our health, which is a much more sustainable (and frankly, less frustrating) way to think about it. If a vegan or vegetarian feels that eating no animal-based products helps them live their best life, then I will happily pass the salad and the eggplant parmesan. It’s no business of mine what goes in their stomachs. 

I view myself as a steward to my pets and the animals I work with, which sometimes means doing unpleasant things they don’t like for the good of the animal – grooming, giving shots and worming, having their teeth/hooves/whatever examined and worked on, and teaching them how to accept living in a world dominated by humans. To me, that is the way I can be kindest to my animals, regardless of what goes in my own stomach. It’s never going to be perfect, and it’s never going to not have bad parts or people who choose to do bad things to animals, so I don’t try to shoot for those extremes. 

All in all, I think it comes down to personal choice. Attempting to stop others from riding or using horses for work is just not going to happen, so the only person whose actions you can control are your own.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

redandmonty said:


> .... vegans kept saying "would you ride a dog? no? horses are no different."


Is horse back riding Vegan? Who cares? And I don't mean that unkindly. I don't care what they believe and as long as what I'm doing isn't illegal, it's none of their business. 

Horses ARE different than dogs. They are livestock and beasts of burden. That doesn't mean that we don't love and care for them like we would our pets, but they are not pets. These folks are operating from the assumption that all horses are pets. They are not. Mine are expected to earn their keep. Those that do not get sold. So whether or not I would ride a dog is immaterial to the discussion and a very large reason why I won't engage with those folks. I don't really care what they think and don't care to hear from them.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Horses ARE different than dogs. They are livestock and beasts of burden. That doesn't mean that we don't love and care for them like we would our pets, but they are not pets. These folks are operating from the assumption that all horses are pets. They are not. Mine are expected to earn their keep. Those that do not get sold. So whether or not I would ride a dog is immaterial to the discussion and a very large reason why I won't engage with those folks. I don't really care what they think and don't care to hear from them.


I think the term "Strawman" applies here. I see all kinds of silly logical fallacies being used to defend extreme positions.


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## ThoroughbredBug (Jan 18, 2017)

I could certainly see vegans having issues with the high utilization of leather product in the horse world; I think that's totally fair and understandable. But I imagine plenty of vegans have taken a carriage ride or even done those "rent a horse" trail rides or pony parties without issue.

I will say this though: Many groups of people who focus on moral or ethical promotion of ways (vegans, feminists, etc) tend to have loads and loads of normal members, and a few dozen "crazy ones". The "crazy ones" are more likely to be the those harassing people and pushing their ways, or throwing fits on social media or at riots. That is _not_ the entirety of the group, but people tend to forget that. Don't forget that. Try not to demonize someones actions, don't hyper-focus on it, but don't ignore them. It's a fine line to walk...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Surely vegan means not killing animals to eat or to use their bodies for some purpose?
Riding a horse isn't about either of those things - I would expect a strict vegan to not use leather tack or any animal bi-products for equipment, feeding, cleaning etc


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## KLJcowgirl (Oct 13, 2015)

ThoroughbredBug said:


> I could certainly see vegans having issues with the high utilization of leather product in the horse world; I think that's totally fair and understandable. But I imagine plenty of vegans have taken a carriage ride or even done those "rent a horse" trail rides or pony parties without issue.


This post is pretty well what I was thinking when I read your first post OP. The biggest thing that came to my mind was the usage of leather, and not the actual act of riding. Before I joined the HF I came across a thread (can not for the life of me remember the name and what exactly what it was about) but if my memory serves me right it was kind of a vegan/vegetarian support thread. I remember reading a few people considered themselves Vegan, but made some sacrifices for their tack, as synthetics just don't last quite as long or work well for shows (or something like that, it was years ago). I don't think that's any different from those that are Vegan and own dogs/cats who have to eat meat meals. Of course, I am not Vegan and therefore don't really know how everything works, so take this for what it's worth.

And the argument about not riding your dog.... that's just stupid, apples to oranges. Of course I wouldn't ride my dog, he's built totally different. My horse CAN carry my weight, I would squish my dog. 

Could the one that posted hypocritically have just been trolling? That thought comes to my mind when I read some absolute asinine posts online. I think, "This can't possibly be what they really think!?" But, alas, who knows any more. :shrug:


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## Chapter (Aug 25, 2014)

Regarding leather tack - it depends whether you follow a vegan lifestyle or just a vegan diet. I follow a vegan lifestyle as well as diet, meaning I don't consume any animal products or use anything made from them such as leather, wool, paintbrushes made from animal hair, rawhide etc. I also don't use beauty products containing animal products/tested on animals. 

I buy beta biothane tack. I currently still have my leather saddle which was given to me with my horse, but will be purchasing an alternative in the future, when I have the funds for a new saddle.

Those who are only dietary vegans are likely doing it for health rather than ethical issues they have, and are less likely to care about using leather and such.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I guess I will be an oddball and say I don't see much difference between a horse and a dog, except for their size and one is predator and one is prey. But if dogs were big enough I could see people riding them. Dogs were beasts of burden (or at least working animals) long before they became pets and pretty much only pets. 

Some people don't consider their horse a pet, but I do. I have horses because I love them and enjoy them. That also includes riding them at the moment, but if my horse became too injured to ride or I became too injured to ride, I would hope to still have them just for the enjoyment of grooming them and giving them snacks. I really just love horses as horses. Because after all I don't NEED that horse to carry me around. I could get a bicycle or an ATV and the upkeep would be significantly less. So to me, the horse is a pet, not so much a beast of burden. But if people want to think of them that way, that's okay. But not everybody does.


But don't you think people would be riding dogs if they were big enough? And what would be the harm in that? I don't think of myself as "working" my horse when I ride him. He may see it that way, I don't know. But working him is not my purpose for having him. I prefer to think of it as enjoying nature with my horse. The same way a person would when they walk a dog. Except my "dog" can carry me around. 

Yeah, I guess I want to have a "let's enjoy the trails together" type of relationship with my horse. Not a "you are my beast of burden working for me" kind of relationship with my horse. But I don't see the negativity in using them as a beast of burden as long as you are not abusive or neglectful. I mean, I understand that is their original purpose. But a lot of dog breeds originally had that purpose too. 

So I guess I would tell the vegans, yes, if I had a dog big enough, I would be riding it too! I really don't see the big difference between a dog and a horse. Yes, their behavior is different, but the reason we have them in our lives, not so much. :lol:


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If everyone turned vegan there would be no animals!


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

When people take ANYTHING to the extreme, it gets crazy. (diet, religion, politics, etc.).


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I have never heard of such a thing. I am not a vegan, but I know a few and they would think that way of thinking is just insane! :O


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

As long as you're not trying to eat the horse while riding it, and of course using only tack you wove out of flax that you grew yourself, I'd say it fits the definition of 'vegan'.


Biothane/synthetic tack is made from oils which come from dead animals, so if you're truly hardcore vegan you shouldn't own anything with plastic (phones, TVs, all other electronics), and god forbid you drive anywhere, since vehicles use a lot of products that are made from animals.


See how rabid and crazy it can all get? You do you and I'll do me. You can think animals are just furry, four-legged humans if you want, and I'll continue to think they're made of delicious meat.


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

I'm probably repeating a lot of what's already been said, but it depends on your own personal views and whether you whether you just follow a vegan diet or live a vegan lifestyle. I know there are some vegans who are opposed to animals used for any purpose on the grounds that they're being exploited. Most vegans aren't quite this extreme.

Even PETA who is one of the most well known proponents of veganism is not opposed to horseback riding. Here's a direct quote from their official website: "Just as a dog can be housetrained in a positive manner, gentle methods can be employed to teach a horse to tolerate a rider on his or her back. PETA does not support training methods based on punishment." PETA's stance seems centered around how horses are housed and trained, not the fact that they're used at all. This seems reasonable to me, and most vegans would probably agree.

A vegan who lived a vegan lifestyle would probably do all they could to avoid the use of leather tack and other animal products in association with the care of their horse. But not all vegans even go that far. There are vegans who are vegan only by their food choices. It really depends on how far you want to take it.

I never really understood the all or nothing mentality of some people. I've been a vegetarian for 12 years. I will choose cruelty free products when given the option, and I do eat vegan somewhat frequently. But I also take medications with gelatin in it, and use leather tack. I've been harassed, mostly online, for not being the ultimate vegan. Some of these are elitist vegans who snub their nose at anyone who doesn't do things exactly the way they do, and others are just anti-veg trolls who try to make you feel like what you're doing is worthless so you'll quit. Do as much you're comfortable doing to support a cause that you believe in and don't let anyone else tell you that what you're doing isn't enough. It is enough and you are making a difference.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Horses are different from dogs: they're bigger. (Unless of course you're comparing minis to St. Bernards ) I wouldn't try to ride my dogs for the same reason I wouldn't try to ride a 14 hand horse - because I'm 6 ft and about 200 lbs. But we do go skijoring.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

If nobody rode horses anymore, they would become extinct or at the very least, very, very rare to see. That kind of PETA type attitude spells the extinction of domestic livestock.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I always thought of vegan as just a food choice, not a lifestyle until I met a young couple with a dog, and they fed the dog a totally vegan diet too. I felt sorry for the dog, as he didn't choose to be vegan, and it can't be healthy for him.

One of my daughters decided to become a vegan when she was a teen for weight control. She felt meat was the easiest thing for her to give up. I did not allow her to give up dairy and eggs though, because I believe animal protein is essential for good health. 

One of the most avoidable diseases I see every day (I'm a nurse) is diabetes and complications from diabetes. The non-compliant diabetic patients are difficult to deal with and do you know what I see them eating? Carbohydrates. Lots and lots of carbs, and very little of the meat. Granted, hospital meals are not the tastiest, but they could at least *try* to eat right. 

Diabetes is only one of the diseases that points to a vegan or vegetarian diet as being unhealthy, IMO. 

Sorry, I got on a tangent there, but I just don't feel that vegans are healthy, and unhealthy folks can make other unhealthy choices. 

Many horses today live a very pampered lifestyle, and calling it abuse to ride a horse is uninformed at best.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

redandmonty said:


> I came across a post on Facebook that had a picture of a horse with the caption "keep your butt off of my back" from some vegan humor page. The horse people obviously defended themselves and made good points. A majority of the non-horse people vegans kept saying "would you ride a dog? no? horses are no different." and they pretty much just kept on repeating that line over and over. I checked out one of the posters page that was against riding and shes a total hypocrite, lol. Found pictures of her riding.
> 
> This post in no way is meant to be bashing anyone... I am just curious as to what people in this community have to say about this controversial subject lol (I am vegeterian, will probably be vegan at some point in the future)


:rofl::rofl::rofl: ****. It's totally unrelated. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. It's just as much vegan as using a mechanical vehicle is carnivorous. Neither has anything to do with diet and that's what vegan, omnivore, and carnivore are about it. Why don't we just take it to medical science which will point out that humans (**** sapien sapien) are not herbivores which would make use true vegans (we could join our horses for lunch and share some grass in the pasture :rofl. We are omnivores. To use the easiest example let's look at B12. From natural sources we can only get it from animal products. Vegans have to rely on either supplements with B12 or foods fortified with it. The rest of us can get from natural sources like meat, eggs, fish, etc, etc, etc. The only "natural" sources of B12 available to humans is via some form of animal (fish are animals in the broad biological sense) source. Just as humans are unable to adequately process high levels omega 3 from plant sources even though the plant may have high levels of omega 3, but do quite well processing it from animal sources. There is a reason why Neanderthal and **** Sapiens dominated and out survived all the other hominids in history and why **** sapien sapien are the only ones left (after Neanderthal vanished). Our diets (i.e omnivore) resulted in larger brains and a more successful species of hominid. There are things that our bodies are designed by nature to process from animal sources and not plant sources. Without them we eventually suffer various medical problems which is a very real danger for true vegans if they don't insure that they have some man made source for getting what the non vegans get from a natural diet. (e.g. look up the eventual effects of B12 deficiency) 

What we ride, wear, or sit on :rofl: has nothing to do with being vegan, omnivore or carnivore. I find it hilarious that anyone would give anything so absurd a first thought. Let a lone a second one :rofl::rofl::rofl:.


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## 247001 (Feb 16, 2017)

SteadyOn said:


> Ultimately, if you go vegan, do it YOUR way, in a way that makes sense to you. It's your own personal lifestyle choice, not an organized religion (though sometimes people seem to want to make everyone think it is).


I definitely will still ride if I end up going vegan... I just dont wanna get bashed by non rider vegans saying im being cruel and a hypocrite by riding if I do turn vegan. I know its impossible to change someones opinion though.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

redandmonty said:


> I definitely will still ride if I end up going vegan... I just dont wanna get bashed by non rider vegans saying im being cruel and a hypocrite by riding if I do turn vegan. I know its impossible to change someones opinion though.


Rule #1: stop caring what other people think. Enjoy your horse and eat what you feel like eating, whether that's 100% or 100% vegetables...no one's business but yours.


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## 247001 (Feb 16, 2017)

ApuetsoT said:


> Do vegans use leather tack?


I have a friend that is vegan and she mixes leather and synthetic tack. I guess it depends on the individual.


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## 247001 (Feb 16, 2017)

jamesqf said:


> Horses are different from dogs: they're bigger. (Unless of course you're comparing minis to St. Bernards ) I wouldn't try to ride my dogs for the same reason I wouldn't try to ride a 14 hand horse - because I'm 6 ft and about 200 lbs. But we do go skijoring.


Yea I find the "would you ride a dog" argument very invalid lol


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

While I have never ridden a dog, I have used a dogsled. So yes, I guess, I would ride a dog. On long trail rides/pack trips, my little heeler sports "saddlebags" and carries her own food. I have a pretty good internet buddy who is a pretty strict vegan, no meat, animal products, leather, etc. She has several horses, and is in fact a quite accomplished horsewoman with a room full of ribbons, trophies, and buckles. She absolutely hates PETA, she says they paint all vegans/vegetarians as whack jobs which in the end does more harm than good.


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

its lbs not miles said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl: ****. It's totally unrelated. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.... Neither has anything to do with diet and that's what vegan, omnivore, and carnivore are about it. rofl::rofl::rofl:.


Yeah, well, what if you swallowed a fly or a spider while riding? I've done that. Then it is an insectivore sport, and very cruel indeed. What a ghastly death...


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Captain Evil said:


> Yeah, well, what if you swallowed a fly or a spider while riding? I've done that. Then it is an insectivore sport, and very cruel indeed. What a ghastly death...


 
 Well, there's nothing you can do about kamikaze bugs. Clearly they wanted to go that way since at the speeds you reach on a horse they could certainly have avoided going into your mouth. Now, if you were zooming down the road at 60MPH the bug might have been caught unaware, but then if they're not smart enough to avoid flying around on a highway they clearly needed to be removed for the "gene pool" anyway so it would be a case of nature culling out the ones that would reduce the survivability of the specie. :rofl:


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