# Thoughts about how I can improve



## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

The video is kind of small and didn't upload in HD, so you might have to watch it full screen to get a decent view. Sorry.


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

It's hard to tell from the video, but it looks like you're posting from a chair seat instead of having your leg under you. Looks like you're sitting down too much when you post. Your body should just kiss the seat of the saddle when you post. Learn to anticipate what kinds of things make him speed up and slow down. Does he speed up near the in-gate, or slow down when he gets close to the other horses?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

if you were my student of only two months I'd feel that you were doing quite well and would be proud of you. you have good rythm, just as you said. It looks like your legs and feet are rather far out in front of you. this is what is called a chair seat. it makes it harder for a person to rise to the posting trot because you really are trying hard to "lever" yourself up from your knee, and you are very dependent on the horse having enough umph in her trot to help lift you up. if she slows, you then find it really hard to get up, then she speeds up and you get all off balance. 

just as in standing, the way to have dependable balance is to stand up well stacked over your feet. so, getting your leg back so that it lines up under your upper body will help you be more balanced. 

the saddle may have something to do with your chair seat. many western saddles have the stirrup hanging down from a point that is more forward than it would be in an English saddle, so it kind of forces you to be in a chair seat. 

a closer video would help. in general, don't be discouraged. that kind of unstable feeling is pretty normal in the beginning. I can now trot and post for the most part without feeling that way, unless the horse is really getting wonky in its movement, but when I started riding, at age 41, just staying stable for a few laps around the arena was a huge feat!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thank you. The saddle was not ideal for me so that could have been a factor. Should I be further back? You are right that I'm too dependent on my legs out front and part of that was stirrup discomfort. Another part was that's how I felt I had better control over the posting motion. I have been told it should be more from the thigh and not pressure on the stirrups but is that correct? 


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

And yes, Emoore, he does both of those. Usually he gets along well with my friend's lesson horse but on this day they would put ears back when they would get close, for some reason. 


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

elle1959 said:


> Thank you. The saddle was not ideal for me so that could have been a factor. Should I be further back? You are right that I'm too dependent on my legs out front and part of that was stirrup discomfort. Another part was that's how I felt I had better control over the posting motion. I have been told it should be more from the thigh and not pressure on the stirrups but is that correct?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah it should come from the thigh and hip, not from standing up in the stirrups. But also without squeezing your knee. Which makes no sense at all but I swear it works. This is why I'm not an instructor . inkunicorn:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

For two months you're doing great, given time you'll start to feel more relaxed and balanced and the fine tuning will follow on from that - at this point stressing too much about perfection will make you tense and that's not how you want to be


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

You are doing really well for only 2 months of riding. Give it time and patience and practice.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Not bad for only 2 months of lessons, and I think a better saddle will fix the chair seat.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

elle1959 said:


> ...I have been told it should be more from the thigh and not pressure on the stirrups but is that correct?...


Depends on who you ask. VS Littauer, a jumping instructor, wrote:" To see whether he is really in balance with the horse, the rider should try the following experiment; without increase in inclination in his torso and without any lurching up or forward he rises slightly in his stirrups and stays up while the horse walks, without toppling forward or collapsing backwards. The rider's weight is then supported by the stirrups, and this attitude is given stability by the tension in the three springs...This incidentally, is also the rider's position during the upward beat of the posting trot and at the gallop..." - Common Sense Horsemanship​Notice he equates the top of the posting trot with having the weight supported by the stirrups.

I gather others say no, it should all be in the thighs and you should not have pressure in the stirrups.

I'm a backyard rider with backyard horses, using western and Australian saddles, so take this with a big cup of FWIW - but I think the truth is in the middle. The horse's motion should lift you, not pushing down with your feet against the stirrup. Some will lift you a lot, and some barely at all - accept whatever it is the horse gives. The LIFT comes from the horse.

At the top of the motion, you WILL have weight in the thigh - but if you have weight in the heel, then you also have weight in the stirrup. It is not evil to accept the help from the stirrup to keep you up for a beat, but you are not totally relying on the stirrup. It helps, and we normally use stirrups because they help. Then, having paused a beat, you settle back into the saddle - settle, not drop. The stirrup can be an aid in that, too. At least, it helps me.

If you want the stirrups to aid you, then they need to be beneath your center of gravity. Western saddles, contrary to popular opinion, don't put your feet vastly farther forward than English one. IIRC, my English jump saddle was 7" from stirrup bar to the lowest part of the seat. That figure is 6" for my English AP saddle, IIRC. I've sold both saddles so I cannot double check. However, the figure is about 5.5" for my Australian saddle and 6 inches for both of my main western saddles.

A difference of 1-2 inches will not give anyone a significant chair seat. However, I have noticed that as I shorten my stirrups, my feet are brought forward, and as I lengthen them, my feet tend to drift back. I think that is the result of the tension always present in my legs, even when relaxed. As I go shorter, my relaxed leg position drifts forward so my ankle doesn't get scrunched up beneath me.

At least, that is my guess.

Note: one of my western saddles DOES have a groove for the thigh. The Circle Y Mojave is shaped so the thigh relaxes at a certain angle. This is true of some western saddles. It is caused by the "ground" (I think that is the term) - how the saddle is built up from the tree. I have 4 western saddles (Martin, Abetta, Circle Y & Southern Trails), and only one is like that.

In any case, I certainly find it easier to post if my stirrups are roughly under my center of gravity at the seated position. In your case, they are out in front. You might try lengthening your stirrups a hole or two and see if that helps. Speaking for myself, I can only change my stirrup length about a hole a week without feeling weird, but I think you will find a longer stirrup in that saddle will let your feet drift back and help your balance. You don't want to rely on the stirrup posting, but you don't want to fight it either.

All IMHO as a backyard rider who doesn't teach anyone. If this didn't help, please feel free to ignore it all. In any case, you are doing GREAT for 2 months!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thank you, everyone. I had a lesson tonight with a different trainer, different horse, COMPLETELY different feel in the trot. I did not post, felt no need to with this horse. We did weaves around cones and worked on my leg aids. I am having problems with using my whole leg; it seems I tend to want to use my calf only. I'm sure there will always be something to learn. Thank you again. All of this is very helpful!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Excellent Elle! I forgot to add, just keep riding regularly, and more improvement will come.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I remember taking my first lunge line lesson and the horse trotting, and me thinking, "how in the heck am I ever going to stay on?". 

now, I can post on and on without really thinking about it. it will come.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

I too think you are doing AWESOME for such a short time in the saddle. You ride better than many people I've seen, who have been at it way longer. 

I agree with much of what has already been said in replies. 

I believe it was bsms who mentioned allowing the horse to push you up into a post and then using your muscles to lower yourself back into the saddle. To really get a feel for that, try posting without stirrups or bareback. When you don't have stirrups to use, your muscles with get really tired quite quickly, if you try to make yourself rise. If, instead you relax your muscles and allow the horse's movement to rise your seat, you can do it for quite a bit longer. Of course, ideally there is a middle road, where you use a little bit of stirrup, a little bit of muscle and a lot of the horse's energy, to post. I want to caution about gripping or using too much muscle in your legs to help you. 

Further developing your strength and balance, will help you improve 
A good exercise you can do, to help you get a good feel for what I mean --- 

Find yourself a set of stairs with a railing (preferably not a tall staircase, as you'll be working on balance and you don't want to worry about falling). Keeping your upper body as tall and straight as possible, stand facing 'upstairs' with just your toes on the step (this is your stirrup), so that your heels are hanging off. Allow your weight to sink into your heel. This is good for stretching your calf muscles and ankles and will help you develop a better heel, over time. Notice how this feels... you aren't actually putting a lot of weight onto the step (your stirrup), all the weight is sinking into your heels. Now see if you can let go of the railing and balance there. This is the equivalent of standing up in your stirrups. 
If you want to strengthen your calves and ankles, try slowly raising your self from the described position, to tip toes and back down. You can do repetitions of this for a good calf workout and stretch. Work up to being able to do it without holding onto the railing (remembering always to keep your posture as tall and straight as possible). 

You can also practice posting like this. Slowly bend your knees to about as bent as they would be when you're sitting a horse, somewhere between like 150 degrees and 110 degrees (less bend than 90 degrees), being sure not to let your body lean forward. Then return to standing straight. If you really want to get good at posting, get to where you can do this without holding onto the railing. If you can't find the balance on a stationary object, you can't expect yourself to be able to do it on a moving creature 


I used to practice these exercises standing on the bottom railing of the arena fence, while watching other people ride. I kind of forgot about this until I saw your post. I really need to start doing this again, as I think it helps tremendously with riding balance and strength 
Hopefully I explained it well enough.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

elle1959 said:


> Thank you, everyone. I had a lesson tonight with a different trainer, different horse, COMPLETELY different feel in the trot. I did not post, felt no need to with this horse. We did weaves around cones and worked on my leg aids. I am having problems with using my whole leg; it seems I tend to want to use my calf only. I'm sure there will always be something to learn. Thank you again. All of this is very helpful!


Some horses just have much nicer, smoother gaits than others. 


As for the leg aids, try to think about is as reaching down wrapping your leg around the horse, instead of just pushing or applying pressure with the leg. Visualizing it like that has helped me 

Sounds like you have good instructors! You're lucky! It took me many years (and many bad habits) before I found an instructor that was worth a darn.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Yes, I think this is very helpful enh817. Thank you. Part of my problem, I think, is that I don't have a lot of strength in my legs yet. Exercises like this could help. Someone also suggested a thigh master or working the legs while sitting on a yoga ball. I think anything that can also help me practice how the moves go when I'm not riding will help, too. I did that in the beginning to help coordinate reining while moving the outside leg. This way I can practice the motions between lessons and apply and correct them when I'm with the horse.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

elle1959 said:


> Yes, I think this is very helpful enh817. Thank you. Part of my problem, I think, is that I don't have a lot of strength in my legs yet. Exercises like this could help. Someone also suggested a thigh master or working the legs while sitting on a yoga ball. I think anything that can also help me practice how the moves go when I'm not riding will help, too. I did that in the beginning to help coordinate reining while moving the outside leg. This way I can practice the motions between lessons and apply and correct them when I'm with the horse.


:yes:
I tried it yesterday, after I typed the explanation, and let me tell you, I wasn't very good at it! Looks like I definitely need to be doing these exercises regularly. It's something I haven't done since I was much younger and riding hunter/jumpers. I often wonder why it seems like I had better balance and was able to stay on when I was younger.... perhaps this is why!? 

You see, no matter how long a person has been riding, we all need to continue working on these things!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

I just bought a large balance ball so that I can work on improving my seat between lessons. I have finally retired so should have a little time each day that I can spend working on sitting in a correct position, getting toes up, and bouncing around a bit. I'm also going to be doing the other exercises in this thread as well as strength building with free weights. Feel like I have a long way to go but everything I can do to improve I will try to do.


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## Saddlebred11 (Mar 27, 2014)

The problem with being a musician is that we work *so hard* not to let the tempo change, especially if you have conducted or played percussion. Here is kind of the same, you need to keep your horse responsible for maintaining the pace you set. Admittedly it won't be perfect but beside that live on the wild side and let the tempo change, don't resist it because, as you have learned, you not changing doesn't mean your horse isn't going to.
A thing that could help you maintain the tempo you want is to count it out loud or under your breath and work to keep him moving at that tempo. Just to be clear by count it I mean 1+2+3+4+1+2+3+4+ or 1+2+1+2+ works nicely at the trot. Or you could go for 16th notes, whatever works.


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## aquariusw (Jun 16, 2014)

It looks like your leg is too forward and not under you which causes you to lean/pull on the reins and get out of rhythm easily. Also your hands seem to be a little too high and apart from each other. I would suggest you to maybe get some lessons on a lunge line and do different exercises such as riding with no hands so you have to put your leg more under you and find your balance because you can't lean on the reins, or sitting trot to maybe get more relaxed and get a feel of the horse's movement. And of course practicing your your two-point. But for only two months of riding you're doing great! keep up the good work


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## RenegadeRider02 (Jan 5, 2016)

Hey! For starters, like everyone has stated, you have your legs very forward. This is called a "chair seat." You should have a straight line from your head, hips, to heel. Have someone take a video of you each time you ride and critic yourself. Head Hips Heel. When your legs are out in front of you, it will cause you to lose your balance, you are having to heave yourself forward in order to get over the knee. You may also be pinching your knees. If you are realying on your knees to post, try sinking into your heels as you post instead.To get in better rythym with your horse you have to feel them, get to know them and know "ok, his friends are over there, he is going to speed up towards them," and so on. You also look like you are behind the motion due to your chair seat. Get your legs under you and sit up tall. When you fall behind the motion, its harder to stay with the horse and predict him.


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