# Horse Won't lunge, stands there, turns in



## KeroKero

Hello everyone!

So I've been working on lunging my horse, I've put many, many... many hours into failing at this. I have watched every video, read every article, had a few people show me how they would get the horse started..

Most of those mentioned above said to start with getting him to move out of your space. So I did, I started the jiggle the rope routine - little jiggle, bigger jiggle, huge rope wave, whipping horse in face/chin with rope wave. He will sometimes back up a couple steps once you really start whipping that rope up and down I always stop the SECOND he gives in and backs up). NO progress, after several sessions, several hours - he does not grow more responsive to the lighter jiggles. He will back up with backward pressure on his halter no problem, but the rope jiggle? no luck so far.

So I try to just get him start on lunging anyway. Usually, he will turn and face me and not budge. I can whip the ground harshly, whip near his feet, I've even tried (on the advice of other horse people there) to whip his butt finally, and no, he just stands there. We have also had people walk him in circles around me to simulate lunging, this doesn't work either.

I was considering tying a plastic bag to the end of my whip to give him some new thing to move away from other than the string, but have come crawling here for possible remedies to this also. I am paying attention to where my body points, where my eyes look, etc... 

What can I do to move this giant lazy horse who fears nothing and no one!? Help me, horse forum people!


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## greenbryerfarms

KeroKero said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> So I've been working on lunging my horse, I've put many, many... many hours into failing at this. I have watched every video, read every article, had a few people show me how they would get the horse started..
> 
> Most of those mentioned above said to start with getting him to move out of your space. So I did, I started the jiggle the rope routine - little jiggle, bigger jiggle, huge rope wave, whipping horse in face/chin with rope wave. He will sometimes back up a couple steps once you really start whipping that rope up and down I always stop the SECOND he gives in and backs up). NO progress, after several sessions, several hours - he does not grow more responsive to the lighter jiggles. He will back up with backward pressure on his halter no problem, but the rope jiggle? no luck so far.
> 
> So I try to just get him start on lunging anyway. Usually, he will turn and face me and not budge. I can whip the ground harshly, whip near his feet, I've even tried (on the advice of other horse people there) to whip his butt finally, and no, he just stands there. We have also had people walk him in circles around me to simulate lunging, this doesn't work either.
> 
> I was considering tying a plastic bag to the end of my whip to give him some new thing to move away from other than the string, but have come crawling here for possible remedies to this also. I am paying attention to where my body points, where my eyes look, etc...
> 
> What can I do to move this giant lazy horse who fears nothing and no one!? Help me, horse forum people!


Hahahaha! Oh man I have a horse just like this after 5 years. Of trying to get him to lunge I only made slight progress at the walk... going right... sometimes.... that's it. I just gave up. He's a good horse the way he is so he just doesn't get lunged. Sorry I have no advice for you I think it was in the way my horse was raised. Bottle fed handled by humans every day all he wants to do is follow you around all the time. If you do get a good post on how to fix this or what to try I'd love to know


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## oh vair oh

The rope jiggle back up takes time. But if your horse is truly lazy and not still learning, you have to get tough. I had a gelding like that who wouldn't move until the last possible second, and then he would just barely back up two steps. He clearly didn't respect my leadership. So, my trainer told me if he wants to be a "tough guy" than he can take a tough leader. So I shortened the intervals of pressure. I went light, straight to medium, straight to hard, and then I slammed down on that halter as hard as I could until he took some serious steps back. It's time to mean business. Make him a little bit afraid of you. I'll slam down on that leadrope AND pop him in the chest until he gets the hell out of the way. Otherwise he's just gonna stand there and laugh at you.

So here's how to initiate lunging:
1. Point in the direction you want him to go.
2. Start whirling your rope/stick closer and closer to his face with even rhythm.
3. Pop him on the nose with the rope/stick and release when he turns the correct direction.


Remember to KEEP providing direction with your hand at all times until he moves.
If he's a poot about it and moves into your pressure, going the way you did not want him to, haul off on him, get his attention, and then go straight for the nose again. But make sure your directional intentions are clear.

If you want to lunge and you are walking towards his butt, trying to whip it to get him to move off, you're going to be the one getting lunged. Aim for the face and shoulder for turning, the flank for speed.

You might also try round-penning with a lariat and scare the poop out of him with it.
1. Point direction.
2. Slap leg.
3. Pulse air.
4. Throw lariat at flank.


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## lindy9318

I have this problem with my horse and right now what we do is I literally lead in a small circle on a lead . I make the circle bigger gradually then I try to move away little by little. If I have a second person I have them stand in the middle holding the line and and a lunge whip and I walk right next to her on the outside. Again small circles to start with, I start with my arm out under her chin, not touching. Then slowly let it down and I slowly move away from her, then ill stop and the person in the middle keeps with her, always facing her shoulder.

It's a really slow start bit it works so far for us. My horse was never lunged before I got her so she really had no idea what I was asking her to do. Hope this helps a bit!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lexiie

okay, first of all. MOVE TOWARDS YOUR HORSE when you do the jiggle the rope, get a stick and tap in the chest, MAKE him move tell him with your body "hey, move out of my space" make energy with yourself. not just the rope.

Work on that.

Then get your horse to "yield the hindquarters"

Have your horse pivot on his front feet and swing his butt around so he's looking at you. tell him to back up.

Keep doing that till you both really get it.

When you want to lunge him, take the line and hold it up high and pull and point in the direction you want him to go, tap his neck and cluck at him. Once he gets going, stop the energy, but bring it RIGHT back when he starts to slow down or turn.

OH AND DO NOT MOVE YOUR FEET. YOUR HORSE DOES NOT LUNGE YOU, YOU LUNGE HIM!!!!

Research Clinton Anderson.
The only reason my horse lunges well is because of him, and she was EXACLTY like your horse.
She can change direction at the walk, and trot. and lots of fun stuff


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## greenbryerfarms

sounds like a great start if he were all mine id do it but im afraid i have one of them moms that freak when her "poor baby" is being told what to do! my two others are all mine and they lunge  

although when he was younger i did try to use a lot of force thats how we got the walk... and the horse only listens to me to this day. hes a great baby sitter on the trail but running or hard work no one else can get him to move.


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## Foxhunter

When I start a horse lungeing, one that has never been taught before, I start by walking them around the arena, gradually increasing the distance between us and keeping them away with the whip/ I have the line in my left hand (on the left rein) and the whip in my right. When they are walking parallel to me then I will ask them to turn around me, still keeping them out with the whip so they are on a very small circle, then when they get the idea of that I will increase their range.

With a horse that is being stubborn I can see absolutely no point in shaking the rope and asking him to go back - you want him to go forward, reverse can come much later. 

If the horse just stands and turns in towards me then I am very fast to get behind it and use the whip to drive it forward. Crack the whip (and you want a proper lunge whip so you have the length) if that doesn't work then it will get two or three hard lashes around its back legs - and believe me, he will feel it when I do it and go forward fast. 

You are being to slow and far to soft.


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## greenbryerfarms

Foxhunter said:


> When I start a horse lungeing, one that has never been taught before, I start by walking them around the arena, gradually increasing the distance between us and keeping them away with the whip/ I have the line in my left hand (on the left rein) and the whip in my right. When they are walking parallel to me then I will ask them to turn around me, still keeping them out with the whip so they are on a very small circle, then when they get the idea of that I will increase their range.
> 
> With a horse that is being stubborn I can see absolutely no point in shaking the rope and asking him to go back - you want him to go forward, reverse can come much later.
> 
> If the horse just stands and turns in towards me then I am very fast to get behind it and use the whip to drive it forward. Crack the whip (and you want a proper lunge whip so you have the length) if that doesn't work then it will get two or three hard lashes around its back legs - and believe me, he will feel it when I do it and go forward fast.
> 
> You are being to slow and far to soft.


This doesn't work on them all I. Have tryed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag

Why does he need to lunge? He's watching you with both eyes, a sign that he's focused on you. If you really feel the need to lunge him hold the line to your left at shoulder height and tap his jaw rhythmically with the end of the lunge whip. (hold on to the lash). The moment he begins to move his head away, stop tapping and rub his cheek. Try again. He's learning that when he moves away you stop that annoying tapping. Be patient and accept the tiny increments that he give you. It's like connect the dots, suddenly the big picture comes together.


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## ktrolson

To get the horse move away from you, you need to go to the neck and shoulder, not the hind end. Put your hand up HIGH in the direction you want and go after that neck and shoulder to move it out of the way. Make sure to put pressure behind the drive line (basically the shoulder area) to get forward movement after the shoulder moves away.

If you have a round pen, do some round penning first with the same cues. If you don't have one then haul to a facility that does. After he is round penning well, hook up the rope and go from there.

I would highly recommend watching some Clinton Anderson videos on round penning and lungeing. He explains the technique very well and it works! You can pick up some of his older videos (even a VHS tape) on e-bay. For 20 bucks a month, you can join his club and watch several videos to learn this. It will be money well spent.

Good luck. I know you'll get there with more knowledge and practice.

Karen


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## tinyliny

Lexiie said:


> okay, first of all. MOVE TOWARDS YOUR HORSE when you do the jiggle the rope, get a stick and tap in the chest, MAKE him move tell him with your body "hey, move out of my space" make energy with yourself. not just the rope.
> Work on that.
> Then get your horse to "yield the hindquarters"
> Have your horse pivot on his front feet and swing his butt around so he's looking at you. tell him to back up.
> Keep doing that till you both really get it.
> When you want to lunge him, take the line and hold it up high and pull and point in the direction you want him to go, tap his neck and cluck at him. once he gets going, stop the energy, but bring it RIGHT back when he starts to slow down or turn.
> 
> OH AND DO NOT MOVE YOUR FEET. YOUR HORSE DOES NOT LUNGE YOU, YOU LUNGE HIM!!!!
> 
> Research Clinton Anderson.
> The only reason my horse lunges well is because of him, and she was EXACLTY like your horse.
> She can change direction at the walk, and trot. and lots of fun stuff


 
sounds contradictory to me.

As for getting him to go out on the circle , you aren't much wanting him to back up away from you so mucha as you are wanting him to step his shoulders away from you; to go from facing you to being facing more or leass toward the direction you want him to walk forward on. By doing this, he also presents his "driveline" to you ( the area just behind his girth area, where you can apply pressure and he shoudl go forward.)

Even if he doesnt'give you good access to his driveline, if he moves his shoudlers away from you., you can get him to start thinking about moving forward.

I was having a similar problem the other day. I stand in the middle. I don't approach the horse, but I am ready to walk/pivot on a small circle in the same direction as the horse, with my toes pointing at his driveline or a tad behind it, once he starts walking.

I apply pressure to the horse's inside nostril (and I might walk toward him some if necessary) with a whip, or a rope propellor or plastic bag on stick or ?. Horse will eventually step sideways away from me. I can actually stop and reward him with just that, if I want to break it down into small steps. 

Or, I can now ask for forward from him. To do that, I put some pull on the leadline to indicate, go this way!. So, say I am starting him leftward. I get him to step sideways out away from me. Then take up some of the line and with my left hand as far out to the left as possible. I put some "feel" on it. kind of bump and pull leftward. if the horse resists, do NOT give, an inch.

in the mean time. I put action into his feet by swinging the tail of the rope toward his hind area, or the whip or whatever makes him move his feet. He might back up. he might go sideways, he might rear. But the forward pull of the leadline keeps saying "move THIS way". He makes a lot of mistakes and you just don't reward them by stopping the pullin leftward. ONly when he, by chance, goes leftward, do you release the line totally and let him take a step or two and them let him stop. Do this a few times and he'll start to get the idea. 

Remember what you are asking for and don't reward for anything else, but don't stop the horse from making incorrect choices. let him figure it out, just hang inthere aasking , "left, left left", and never giving him an inch until he goes a step left.


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## Skyseternalangel

I think she meant move when you jiggle the rope to get your horse to back up.. and when you are lunging him, don't move your feet to follow him because then he's basically leading you around being herd leader instead of you telling him where to go.



tinyliny said:


> sounds contradictory to me.


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## Foxhunter

greenbryerfarms said:


> This doesn't work on them all I. Have tryed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sorry but I have started probably more horses than you have ever handled. It does work if you are doing it correctly. 

MAny times I have had retired racehorses that only lunge to one side and all have learned to go the other way within a couple of sessions working this way.

If you can put up a video I will tell you where you are going wrong.


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## Nuala

If you have access to a round pen you might try to free lunge him and see how he does. It is possible that he is sensitive enough that the pressure from the line trying to keep him in a circle is heavy enough to make him think you are asking him to turn in. If so you are eventually going to get him frustrated, kinda like punishing him for something you asked him to do. My gelding will only free lunge for this reason.

Also check your line if you have access to a straight line or one with a stud chain try both and see how he reacts. Some horses prefer it, however some would brake their halter if you try a chain. (I know I'm going to get hollered at for mentioning stud chains so let me get it clear...They are NOT meant to be used heavy or as a punishment. The chain should first put pressure on the halter before its able to run on the horse).

Also always keep eye contact. The join up is based on the principle of the lead mare pushing a horse out of the heard. She keeps eye contact to let them know they are not welcome and will chase them off if she has too. This is just a concept not what you will be doing. Keeping eye contact will also let them know you mean what you are saying with your body, vocal aids and whip cues.

Watch your body language and his. Body language is EVERYTHING when working with horses. It is always a possibility that you are giving off cues if someone else works with this horse or trained him differently.

It is possible that he has been "sacked out" this is a term and method I am quite intolerant of. Most people sack a horse out and then do not teach them how to move to an aid again. If he has been sacked out he might need to learn to be a little bit afraid of the whip again but you do not want him to fear you! I am currently working with a 7 year old mare that was never saddle broke and was halter broke with a whip. She tried to run me over the first time I brought out the whip and got hung on a rail a few times. I had to first get her comfortable with the whip and then I could start pushing her out some. She still tries to turn around it to hide behind me.

Turning in is the thing for him to do though. It is what every good rider should look for, he just needs to learn to do it when you ask him too not when he wants to. Turning in is a sign of trust and is the most safe way to stop a horse in any work. If a horse turns out I always go after them enough to let them know I didn't like it because that gives them the opportunity to kick me and they need to learn its not right. That same mare use to turn out when I started and I had to let her because she was still scared of the whip but now she only does it when she get stuck in the corner of the round pen (its a little tear drop shaped). 

Backing on the line I have always taught by first wiggling the line and then applying pressure with a back cue they already know. My horses it is I touch their shoulder where it joins the chest muscles and say back. Always try to combine a new cue with something they already know it seems like a lot of baby steps but sometimes that is the quickest way to get things done. And please make sure the horse will move off of pressure, even if you start with telling them to step over and then asking them to move their shoulder away from you.

About the respect comments, I have to strongly disagree with a horse needing to respect a human. They are three times our size and weight it is a choice not something you can force on the by making them fear you or being mean to them. Yes a horse needs to learn where their boundaries are with people, how far to stand away from a person, how to walk calmly on a line, etc. But the first thing that needs to happen is trust once the horse trusts you and is willing to work with you then you can teach it boundaries. Yes this is a difference in opinion and training.

My best suggestion without being able to work with the horse directly would be the round pen. Good luck


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## Foxhunter

Lexiie said:


> okay, first of all. MOVE TOWARDS YOUR HORSE when you do the jiggle the rope, get a stick and tap in the chest, MAKE him move tell him with your body "hey, move out of my space" make energy with yourself. not just the rope.
> Work on that.
> Then get your horse to "yield the hindquarters"
> Have your horse pivot on his front feet and swing his butt around so he's looking at you. tell him to back up.
> Keep doing that till you both really get it.
> When you want to lunge him, take the line and hold it up high and pull and point in the direction you want him to go, tap his neck and cluck at him. once he gets going, stop the energy, but bring it RIGHT back when he starts to slow down or turn.
> 
> OH AND DO NOT MOVE YOUR FEET. YOUR HORSE DOES NOT LUNGE YOU, YOU LUNGE HIM!!!!
> 
> Research Clinton Anderson.
> The only reason my horse lunges well is because of him, and she was EXACLTY like your horse.
> She can change direction at the walk, and trot. and lots of fun stuff


I do not agree with this - yes, the horse should move away from your space but by making a horse move away from you like this is encouraging him to face you which is not what you want. 

I also disagree with tapping the neck, this is not going to get a horse going forward, it will encourage him to turn and face. 

As for not moving your feet whilst lungeing, this is well and fine, _if the horse is lungeing well!_ If it is not going forward then you want the whip to be behind it and able to touch it, so, until the horse is going well it is easier to correct on a tight circle which is difficult for the horse so, by walking in a circle lets the horse have a larger circle making it easier for them and for you to remain in contact. 

I do not call this lungeing - I call it chasing the horse in a circle - which is tight, the animals quarters are out, it is rushed and chances of it knocking itself very high. 





This is very basic but what I would call correct lungeing.


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## Skyseternalangel

I really like the video Foxhunter linked (the 2nd one on lunging)

It is perfectly acceptable to walk around, I do it with my horse so we aren't just going in the same circle. We travel to obstacles, move to other areas of the arena so he isn't shutting down and becoming bored. 

Also, it sounds as though your horse isn't taking you seriously. The herd leader horse asks one of them to move, they move! If they don't, herd leader horse puts ears back (1st warning) bares teeth (2nd warning) turns around and kicks the crap out of them until they yield. Next time, lead horse puts their ears back.. and the horse will move away! 

You need to give him clear directions. Did he lunge before you had him? Is he new to it? Are you serious when you correct him or are you afraid of hurting him or just give up because you feel nothing works?


Do you understand how horses communicate? I would spend some time observing them in their herd and seeing how important body language, intent, pressure, and release is. As a herd leader, we must speak their language, we must emulate how they communicate. They don't speak English.. so we must learn to speak Horse.

You've been given a lot of great advice here and some advice that I wouldn't try even if someone paid me. And I stress being safe. 

Wish I could write more advice but I don't know enough about you or the horse.



greenbryerfarms said:


> This doesn't work on them all I. Have tryed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will say this though. Trying is great, but you must be consistent. Find a way that works properly and stick with it. If you are not consistent the horse will be very confused and shut down and stop giving an effort.


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## greenbryerfarms

Foxhunter said:


> Sorry but I have started probably more horses than you have ever handled. It does work if you are doing it correctly.
> 
> MAny times I have had retired racehorses that only lunge to one side and all have learned to go the other way within a couple of sessions working this way.
> 
> If you can put up a video I will tell you where you are going wrong.


I'd be more then happy if you proov me wrong its just on one particular horse. I'm a rare horse person normaly one would be like "no he will blah blah blah" but me I'm more then willing to say you are right
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenbryerfarms

Skyseternalangel said:


> I really like the video Foxhunter linked (the 2nd one on lunging)
> 
> It is perfectly acceptable to walk around, I do it with my horse so we aren't just going in the same circle. We travel to obstacles, move to other areas of the arena so he isn't shutting down and becoming bored.
> 
> Also, it sounds as though your horse isn't taking you seriously. The herd leader horse asks one of them to move, they move! If they don't, herd leader horse puts ears back (1st warning) bares teeth (2nd warning) turns around and kicks the crap out of them until they yield. Next time, lead horse puts their ears back.. and the horse will move away!
> 
> You need to give him clear directions. Did he lunge before you had him? Is he new to it? Are you serious when you correct him or are you afraid of hurting him or just give up because you feel nothing works?
> 
> 
> Do you understand how horses communicate? I would spend some time observing them in their herd and seeing how important body language, intent, pressure, and release is. As a herd leader, we must speak their language, we must emulate how they communicate. They don't speak English.. so we must learn to speak Horse.
> 
> You've been given a lot of great advice here and some advice that I wouldn't try even if someone paid me. And I stress being safe.
> 
> Wish I could write more advice but I don't know enough about you or the horse.
> 
> 
> 
> I will say this though. Trying is great, but you must be consistent. Find a way that works properly and stick with it. If you are not consistent the horse will be very confused and shut down and stop giving an effort.


He gives effort one way at a walk.. I handle my horses every day
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HarleyWood

My 5 year old did this i think i over louinged him... but i would stand 3 feet from him and hit behind him and get closer and closer till i hit his butt and back legs he would be upset and throw his head at me but after a bit he would go and we had to to this over and over to get 10 mins of lounging i have 20 mins of doing this! 

but now he will go and go and go till i ask him to stop and he will come right over when i walk around and if you call him like a dog he will walk right up to you!


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## Blaze

Well, I haven't read everybody else's posts, but what really helped me (actually how I taught my horse) was I bout Clinton Anderson's book! That thing is like a life-saver (to some extent - I've heard his DVDs are better, but I don't really have the money to buy them yet!).


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## Lexiie

Skyseternalangel said:


> I think she meant move when you jiggle the rope to get your horse to back up.. and when you are lunging him, don't move your feet to follow him because then he's basically leading you around being herd leader instead of you telling him where to go.


^ you got my point exactly


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## Skyseternalangel

Any updates on the lunging, OP?

(Haha no problem, Lexiie)


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## Cherie

The video of Clinton Anderson shows exactly what the OP needs to do to get this horse started. 

It is NOT labeled 'How a horse should longe'. It is labeled "Yield On The Longe Line." It shows how you 'start' a horse that refused to yield to the handler. One or two lessons later the horse will be longeing both ways.

When a horse lacks respect like the one posted about, It may take a little more convincing and 'chasing' him to teach him to move on command. Then, it can be labeled 'longeing'. 

I think CAs video titled 'Longeing For Respect' would a very good one for people to watch that cannot get a horse to longe. 

Personally, I have never met the horse that I cannot get to longe nicely within 2 or 3 lessons. Having trained for the public for many years, most of them came to me thoroughly spoiled and determined to not longe at all or to only go one way; or they had been beaten with a whip and just tried to bolt and run off. The first lesson taught them to MOVE when I said to MOVE. The next couple of lessons taught them to do it correctly and move the way I wanted them to. If they started out bolting, the next couple of lessons taught them to longe on a line that was loose enough to have a 'droop' in the line like the one in the second video.


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## greenbryerfarms

Cherie said:


> The video of Clinton Anderson shows exactly what the OP needs to do to get this horse started.
> 
> It is NOT labeled 'How a horse should longe'. It is labeled "Yield On The Longe Line." It shows how you 'start' a horse that refused to yield to the handler. One or two lessons later the horse will be longeing both ways.
> 
> When a horse lacks respect like the one posted about, It may take a little more convincing and 'chasing' him to teach him to move on command. Then, it can be labeled 'longeing'.
> 
> I think CAs video titled 'Longeing For Respect' would a very good one for people to watch that cannot get a horse to longe.
> 
> Personally, I have never met the horse that I cannot get to longe nicely within 2 or 3 lessons. Having trained for the public for many years, most of them came to me thoroughly spoiled and determined to not longe at all or to only go one way; or they had been beaten with a whip and just tried to bolt and run off. The first lesson taught them to MOVE when I said to MOVE. The next couple of lessons taught them to do it correctly and move the way I wanted them to. If they started out bolting, the next couple of lessons taught them to longe on a line that was loose enough to have a 'droop' in the line like the one in the second video.


You hit the nail on thehead my mothers horse is spoiled rotten by her. She freaks if you point a whip in his direction,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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