# Is it possible I forgot how to canter in a western saddle?



## Blondehorselover (Oct 20, 2011)

I have always ridden western and rode my first horse western. Then I went on a 4 year hiatus and then took english saddleseat lessons for a couple months. I recently bought another horse whom I ride western. I need to train him how to pick up the canter (or lope) from a walk because he does this really fast trot then canters. 

But anyway, I cannot for the life of me sit his canter!!! He comes up pretty high with his front end and his back end while he canters and I don't know if it's that or if I've just been thrown off balance because of his trotting first. But my butt comes up pretty high and smacks back down and I can't seem to grip the saddle with my thighs at all!!! Do I need my muscle memory back (how can I do that), is it the horse, is it ME??? AHH HELP ME!


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

A) gripping with the thighs is only going to make the problem worse.

B) Can you sit his trot?

Are you giving him a half halt or two just before asking for the canter? The fact that he runs into the canter from a trot means to me that he's unbalanced and heavy on the forehand.


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## Blondehorselover (Oct 20, 2011)

mildot said:


> A) gripping with the thighs is only going to make the problem worse.
> 
> B) Can you sit his trot?
> 
> Are you giving him a half halt or two just before asking for the canter? The fact that he runs into the canter from a trot means to me that he's unbalanced and heavy on the forehand.


 
I can sit his trot but it's VERY choppy...probably the worst of all the horses I've ever ridden. And I guess I don't know what you mean by halting. I try asking for the canter when he is at a halt and he bursts into this very choppy trot then after a lot of squeezing and "kissing" he canters but then it's a fast canter. He was a trail horse and I believe he was only trained to walk and trot to catch up with others. I don't know if it's my doing or if he just isn't trained properly yet......


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-halthttp://www.artofriding.com/articles/halfhalt.html

What are your legs doing the moment you ask for the canter?

Do you have the same problem when asking for the canter from the trot?


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## Blondehorselover (Oct 20, 2011)

mildot said:


> The Art of Classical Riding--The Half Halt
> 
> What are your legs doing the moment you ask for the canter?
> 
> Do you have the same problem when asking for the canter from the trot?


 
Ok...I suppose I do a version of a half halt. I sit more upright, gather my reins, and start thinking about what I want him to do next then I give the cues. My legs are firm against the sides/putting pressure to ease him into the canter but as soon as he does they flop all over and I'm just really unbalanced....and yup...same thing.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Are you releasing the tension in your body as soon as he departs into the canter? It kinda goes back to gripping with thighs and legs....always a losing proposition.

Are you swinging your outside leg back slightly behind the cinch to help him strike off on the correct lead? Even if your legs are both on the cinch, is he still on the correct lead? As you likely know a counter canter feels all wonky.

Just throwing out food for thought.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

The difference I feel from English to Western riding is that one does less gripping with the thigh in a Western saddle and rides more directly on the seatbones, less dependent on the stirrup. To be able to do it well, you must be really loose in the hips to move with the horse. I dont' mean that English riders don't use their seatbones, but they do tend to ride with more leg /thigh contact and more of a grip through the whole leg, down into the stirrup. 
Correctly ridden Western means staying really on your seatbones, not bracing into the stirrup and letting your legs hang down, ala bareback riding.

My guess is that you are gripping too much and this alone will keep you from being able to really get connected to the saddle via your seatbones. 
That kind of unbalanced "fall" into a canter from a racing trot is very common for horses that are not well balanced, and/or the rider is leaning too far forward and unbalancing the horse.

Next time, when you ask for canter, sit back a little, think of "scooping " the horse with you leg and seat, scooping it UP and in front of you. Be sure you have a little bend to the inside when you ask, and keep asking for the canter if he trots. If he gets wildly strung out, bring him back to walk and ask again.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Correctly ridden Western means staying really on your seatbones, not bracing into the stirrup and letting your legs hang down, ala bareback riding.


You just described the classical dressage seat.

I disagree that there is a significant difference in how one rides a horse regardless of the saddle. Horses all move pretty much the same, and so do humans. So the biomechanics are all the same.

Even in a two point position "bracing" into the stirrups is wrong. It implies tension and stress, which is incorrect no matter what you are doing or what saddle you are on.

I do agree with the rest of your advice.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

It may also be the horse and not your riding. 

I own several horses, and most have lovely canters. I have an older arab mare that gets too enthused when going into the canter and puts all her energy into going more up rather than stretching out and relaxing. She is better than she used to be, but she is really hard to ride at a canter. If she were ridden an hour a day by a professional rider, I think she would get better. As it is, she is ridden about once a week by someone that is glad to survive. (Not me; he can't touch my main horse........ )


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## Blondehorselover (Oct 20, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> The difference I feel from English to Western riding is that one does less gripping with the thigh in a Western saddle and rides more directly on the seatbones, less dependent on the stirrup. To be able to do it well, you must be really loose in the hips to move with the horse. I dont' mean that English riders don't use their seatbones, but they do tend to ride with more leg /thigh contact and more of a grip through the whole leg, down into the stirrup.
> Correctly ridden Western means staying really on your seatbones, not bracing into the stirrup and letting your legs hang down, ala bareback riding.
> 
> My guess is that you are gripping too much and this alone will keep you from being able to really get connected to the saddle via your seatbones.
> ...


 

Ok this makes the most sense so far. I used to always go "with the flow" of the horse and never had a problem. Now I seem tense and that I'm fighting that motion. But I feel like I'm over exaggerating with my hips when trying to go with his canter....is this how it's suppose to feel?


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Blondehorselover said:


> Ok this makes the most sense so far. I used to always go "with the flow" of the horse and never had a problem. Now I seem tense and that I'm fighting that motion. But I feel like I'm over exaggerating with my hips when trying to go with his canter....is this how it's suppose to feel?


Like Mildot said...if you are popping out of the saddle, you are gripping with your thighs. Relax the thighs and use your calves instead....a light hold with your lower legs. You want to "wrap" your leg around the horse. There should be NO exageration of movement anywhere in your upper body.....just sit. Find a balance feel between your seat bones and part of your crotch...like a triangle...and just sit. 

You can also make that jog/trot and lope more comfortable by training your horse to use his body correctly. Getting your horse to drive with the hock and lift the back will help HIS gaits get better, which in turn are more comfortable for you. Bad movers can always become better movers with correct training.


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## hayburner (Feb 15, 2012)

I ride western and my trainer is always telling me to practice my 2 point which can be a bit difficult in a western saddle. It has made my balance so much better. My trainer rode english when she was young and when she rides i never see her legs move. I believe 2 point is an english thing and it really has helped me. first you start at the walk and then the trot and then the lope. You will lean forward alittle but you won't be on the horses back and it can also help with flying lead changes which is what i am working on. Balance is everything and i found that havng my weight in my feet helps tremendously. Good Luck.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

I wish people would be less doctrinaire and not so quick to attach labels to riding techniques.

Neither two point nor posting the trot are "english" things. They are riding skills, nothing more. They can be done in any saddle (or even bareback) with just about any length of stirrup or even no stirrups.

They are skills every rider should have to help their horse by getting their weight off their horse's back when he needs it the most.


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## hayburner (Feb 15, 2012)

I did'nt mean to lable but i am new at this and my trainer started out english and has a great seat. She never moves her legs. She attributes this to 2 pointing. It is rather hard to do in a western saddle as i at least know that much because a western saddle has all the rigging and you don't have close contact like an english saddle. I was just trying to make a point that if your balanced you can pretty much ride anything. 
The more i practice this technique , the better my balance gets. And Yes you can do it bare back or without stirups but that would be even harder to do so until i get it with stirups I'm not doing it without.I'm not 20 years old either so i have to take my age and experience into account.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay do not grip at all. Be so loose.. but control where your weight goes.

I wouldn't ask your horse for a lope from a stand still, he probably isn't ready for that yet as he rushes into trot then dives into canter.

Ask for canter on a circle, bending correctly, nice and supple, and don't tense up. Let the horse canter, support the horse as best as you can (the greener they are, the more you generally have to support) and you'll get a nice canter.

You should half halt on a greenie, or generally ANY horse, before you canter. It re-balances them, gets them ready, and helps soften them up further so THEY aren't bracing.

Believe me, I forgot to half halt once and my horse tripped on his face and then was sprung out once he got to his feet. It wasn't fair to him, nor wasn't the best experience for me.

Half halt, do NOT grip, be loose as a goose, RELAX, and slow him down. Prepare him for the canter.. don't shove him into it.

As for youuuu.. I agree with practicing two point at a walk and trot. Get those legs nice and stretched long and use them to your advantage!

It could be just him and his choppy gaits, or he could be unbalanced. Maybe take a break from cantering under saddle and work on some pole and hill work.


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