# Guns and gun control



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

It is not that much of an issue up here. Minor one, just not taken as strongly as the Americans seem to do.

Do you REALLY need a gun for protection?

Doesn't that say that at least in the US that everyone thinks the next person is out to murder them?

Canada had an "old west" period of time just as the US did but it seems the US never really left that in the past and packing a gun ( or at least having one in the home) seems to be a must have.

Is this why the US is perceived to be more violent as a whole ?

I wanted to move to the US at one time but in hindsight I am glad I didn't with all the violent ( esp relating to shootings) stories that come out on the news.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Trust me, the violence here is overrated. There are MANY countries much more violent, some in Europe that would surprise you. The difference is our media reporting. Our media thrives on the violence as a way of attracting attention to themselves. We make celebrities of the violent schmucks. Every violent situation becomes big news.

Canada doesn't seem to sink to the same media blitze levels. Too bad they can't block out transmissions.

I have lots of firearms....I AM a firearms instructor for the police dept. I don't see it as simply protection (I rarely carry off-duty) but more as recreation.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I think that the bad in the country give the rest of us a negative name....sort of like most things in the equine industry. People in the States thrive on violence--they find comfort in watching it, glad it's not happening to them. In my entire life, I've never seen anything like what's expressed on the news. My dad has a concealed carry license, and I plan to get one when I'm an adult. Some people just like that extra security.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

You are welcome to move next door to me, I will put a big sign in my yard with an big arrow pointing at your house, under the arrow I'll write,
"My neighbor doesnt believe in owning guns, there fore I promise not to use my guns defending her."

As long as bad people have guns, good people should have the means to defend themselves. Police dont protect anyone, they only arrive and investigate after the fact. 
Hitler created modern gun control and registration schemes. Get all the guns registered to make the sheep safe, of course that made it easy just to go round up everyone.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

Lol everyone around here is super ******* about gun control.. The gubment will NOT take our firearms!!

Personally, I am not confident enough to take guns with me anywhere. My step dad is a police officer, and always had his gun with him. I don't think that in a sticky situation I'd be able to pull out a gun and murk on someone.

But I think people should have to right to choose to have one, just like the right to abort, etc. Personally, I don't think there should be a seatbelt law, either for someone over 18, but that's just me.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Do I think anyone is out to murder me? Nope

However, I'm certainly not about to wander outside and beg Mr Rattlesnake to not bite me. Nor am I crazy enough to get close enough to use an axe or similar weapon on him.

I value my safety as well as the safety of my animals and children. Therefore Mr Rattlesnake gets the shotgun treatment if hubby isn't home to deal with him for me. Told Hubby I want a .22 as I don't like firing the shotgun so close to the house, we're debating if a pellet gun or a .22 would be more suitable. Either choice, our children will be learning how to use it as the more education they have on how guns work and proper gun safety, the better.

Worst gun accident I ever saw was a Armored Car driver. He got bored while waiting for his partner to collect the $$$ from me (I was a bookkeeper for a grocery store chain and prepared the bank deposits), took out his gun, was playing with it and managed to shoot it. Armored Cars are bullet-proof.... not only do bullets not go in, they don't come out either. Ricocheted around the vehicle, went through his arm and then his hand. He lost the complete use of his hand AND his job that day. Guns aren't toys and the sooner my kids learn that, the better.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

:lol: You know I was just discussing this in another place recently, what a coincidence...

I used to feel strange visiting the US from the UK, looking at your armed police, it was very odd to be sitting eating in a restaurant with people with real live guns strapped to them sitting at the next table. It was also scary to think that many other people would be carrying, and I just couldn't see nay need for guns.

Now I'm a proud Canadian and I own, or rather the family owns many guns, and I shoot, at certain times of the year I don't leave the house without a long gun in my hand. I live out in the prairies in the place a bit further away than the middle of nowhere, and we have all sorts of critters around here, while I'm happy to live and let live, if they threaten me or mine I will shoot.

Are any of my guns useful to me as protection against other people. I don't know and I pray that I never have to find out, because I never have and never will shoot to would anything, if I'm going to shoot it will be to kill.

I know for a fact that the amount of guns that are kept in say a 20 mile square around here will be scary, there wont be many people in that area but there will be 100's of guns, if you take away urban populations it is reckoned that rural Canada is actually very very high on the guns per head ratio.

I tell what is very different here though, I don't think that I have ever see a street sign that is riddled full of bullet holes, it seems that we use our guns for the purpose intended, not to randomly take pot shots at things.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think a sociological comparison of Canada and the US would be fascinating; so close and yet not. I think that Spyder has a point in that the US has a fundamentally more violent society and some of the "Wild West" mentality still survives. It cannot be because our land required that kind of self reliance, because Canada is even more wild and natural and demanding on the human for survival. 

I might like to think that it has something very fundamental to do with how we starteed out our "countryhood"; after 10 years of bitter fighting against our own "mother". I think that since the people of that time were NOT united in the idea of breaking from England, it was necessary for those that wished to revolt to use a lot of strong, emotional propoganda to bring the sentiments of those on the fence over to committing to independence. Thus things like, "Dont' Tread on Me", and "Give me Liberty or Give me Death!" . 

There's a certain fierceness that we worship and respect, even now, and I don't see that in Canada (except for hockey games). Unfortunenately, that fierceness can also be expressed in almost a love for violence, war , the battle, the underdog. I know that when 9/11 happended, I was so angry that I would have gone to war! I said, "Now they've woken a sleeping giant and they'll be sorry they did!" and I was into it. Now, I am so tired of the whole middle East mess. It's a no win situation.

I have never in my life had any unlawful violence perpetrated on me. I dont' carry a gun, but we own several, tucked away with no ammo. I dunno why. Just kind of cool, I guess. And target shooting is fun.

It saddens me when we are perceived as violent as the number one adjective that comes to foreigner's mind when they think of "Americans".


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Surprising enough there are wild animals that are creeping into the cities. Many are killing small dogs and a baby left in the back yard could be in danger.

Outside of certain areas were it seems multi racial seems to be the area norm you won't see piles of guns or gun violence. We handle our "critters" very well.

That is what the police force is supposed to do, that is their job. Outside of pictures I have seen of guns on various forums it just isn't something that is the norm, to see, handle or come into contact with personally.



This is the way the US comes across to me as far as guns are concerned.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm curious how people with mental issues (and by that I mean they are under doctor supervision, not someone going PMS :wink: ) manage to get guns REGISTERED on their name. Isn't there a rule you have to provide the proof you are stable and all? I may be wrong, just from what I read while back.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

KV - That varies from state to state. In ND there is no waiting period to get a gun. As long as you have IDs you can buy one and take it home with you that day. Major, major hunting state here. We, personally, own more guns than there are people in the house. And that is including our children.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> You are welcome to move next door to me, I will put a big sign in my yard with an big arrow pointing at your house, under the arrow I'll write,
> "My neighbor doesnt believe in owning guns, there fore I promise not to use my guns defending her."


Wow, just wow.



> As long as bad people have guns, good people should have the means to defend themselves. Police dont protect anyone, they only arrive and investigate after the fact.


As a fifteen year veteran cop, I find this comment almost too offensive to risk commenting on. I have spent too many hours breaking up violent fights, separating violent domestic violence combatants, tackling drug dealers, for ANYONE to tell me we don't protect anyone. I got between a man stabbing another at great risk to myself. Even so, the victim had two stab wounds. He lived, but without my intervention he would have been DRT (dead right there).



> Hitler created modern gun control and registration schemes. Get all the guns registered to make the sheep safe, of course that made it easy just to go round up everyone. Gun control worked well for the Jews.


I like owning many weapons, but I have all of mine registered. You can rant all you want but there are a LOT of people I don't want to see owning guns.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I very proudly own guns. I will allways own guns. When i turn 21 i will have a concealed license. 

The as long as there are people there will be weapons. And there will be criminals. I pray i never have to use a gun on a person, but when it comes down to me, a female, being home alone and someone breaks in I want to be able to have a chance at protecting myself. 

In most cases a gun will scare an intruder away. If not the sight, then tbe soumd of a warning shot. If he is still persiztant, then disabling him with a shot to the leg is next best. 

Now if i didnt have a gun in that situation what would happen? Woild i be robbed? Raped? Murdered?

I'd rather not find out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

There are bad people here just like there are everywhere. We have gangs that come in all shapes, sizes and colors. That's about it, as far as what your visual reminds me of, Spyder. To say that's how America looks to you in general is pretty dilusional, I don't see that at all. Yes, I am a citizen and I do own a gun, but not owning one is not going to make this world a better place. Maybe if we all had the same idea at the same time and actually followed through on it. But how realistic is that?

I don't know a single person, other than the police, that carries a gun around on a daily basis for protection. Our country is not THAT dangerous. As far as protecting my children in MY home if some psycho randomly chooses my house to rob, or me or my children to rape, you better believe I'm proud to own that gun.

Not owning a gun just because the world SHOULDN'T be as violent as it IS, really doesn't do you a whole lot of good. That's crazy Obama talk right there.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I own 7 guns. They are used for hunting, skeet shooting, getting rid of groundhogs & coyotes. My favorite gun activity is shooting clays off of my horse with my 20 gauge Benelli semi-auto (ear plugs for both of us of course) 

Don't have any plans to ever aim or fire at another person but if it was to protect my life or that of my family, I'd not hesitate. 

I have no problem with private citizens owning guns but I also have no problem with stricter gun control. Simply because I don't think everyone should own one.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

NdAppy said:


> KV - That varies from state to state. In ND there is no waiting period to get a gun. As long as you have IDs you can buy one and take it home with you that day. Major, major hunting state here. We, personally, own more guns than there are people in the house. And that is including our children.


Oh, I see. I was told you have to apply for license and all, but the person who said so probably just meant MD. I never applied/bought, so don't know the whole procedure.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I owned police pepper spray when I was living in NYC. Does it count as "gun" or at least "weapon"? :lol:


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

If guns were illegal then only the criminals would have them. 

It wasn't but a couple months ago that a neighbor's home was broken into and the wife was at home. Thankfully they were a good gun toting family and she was able to meet them at gun point. They ran and the cops caught them after that. But what would have happened if she didn't have her gun?

A lot of people carry around here but you don't even know it because its conceal carry. Its not like folks are walking around the streets waving their guns around in everyone's face. Likely hood is you will never need to use it to defend yourself, but I would much rather have one and not need it then not have one and need it.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> My favorite gun activity is shooting clays off of my horse with my 20 gauge Benelli semi-auto (ear plugs for both of us of course)


I love to shoot skeet but off your horse?! Now that sounds like a good time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Whisper22;Not owning a gun just because the world SHOULDN'T be as violent as it IS said:


> Obama never said or inferred that.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

.Delete. said:


> I love to shoot skeet but off your horse?! Now that sounds like a good time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I would love to shoot off my horses - but I don't think the crazy things would ever fully get desensitized to the gun. However - I do think I need to try my new recurve bow on horseback.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Obama never said or inferred that.


Not about guns, but he did do something very similar. This isn't a debate about Obama though, so I'll just leave it at that.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> Wow, just wow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And registration schemes wont prevent a single one of them from having one. Here's a news flash for you criminals dont obey the laws, or register their guns. The jump through hoops redtape only makes it harder for the good guys. Areas with the strictist gun laws have the most gun crime. Ever hear of someone shooting up a NRA meeting ? Nope they hit schools, airports, and states like California where they know only the bad guys have guns. 

Actually it was proven in court police dont protect anyone and have no legal obligation to. That was a specific ruling that started the ball rolling on virginia's right to carry law.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

.Delete. said:


> I love to shoot skeet but off your horse?! Now that sounds like a good time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Anytime! We're working on the compound bow now. She flinches a little when you release, silly mare...gun fire doesn't even get a raised hair.

You're welcome to come shoot too Cat. It's a good time! Especially when you outshoot your hubby who's on the ground :lol:


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

> Actually it was proven in court police dont protect anyone and have no legal obligation to. That was a specific ruling that started the ball rolling on virginia's right to carry law.


What a sad way to look at life.
I don't know one of my co-workers, or myself, who wouldn't risk their life to protect you. Now, isn't that ironic, considering how little you think of us?


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

Let's jump to the other side of the world for a tic. Over here in oz I'm quite glad no one carries. Gun licences are fairly easy to get and no criminals don't bother with them most of the time. 

Gun crime isn't a major problem guns are harder to get especially for young teenagers. 

Rural areas guns are the norm sometimes licensed But basically everyone who owns guns knows how to use them and respects them.

Mandatory licensing is a good thing in my eyes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> Anytime! We're working on the compound bow now. She flinches a little when you release, silly mare...gun fire doesn't even get a raised hair.
> 
> You're welcome to come shoot too Cat. It's a good time! Especially when you outshoot your hubby who's on the ground :lol:



I'm in!

LOL - guys always hate it when you out shoot them. I was at a cookout a while back and they had a shoot out for quarters. 4 guys and me. I came in and won the whole pot of quarters which was quite big at that point (well as far as quarters go). :lol: Thankfully the guys were all good natured about it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Eliz said:


> Lol everyone around here is super ******* about gun control.. The gubment will NOT take our firearms!!


Truthfully, though, they are completely correct in that statement. The government truly has no authority to enter a person's home and seize their guns no matter what gun control laws they pull out of their ***. Not only does our 2nd amendment right guarantee that, but according to our Constitution, the government itself only has law enforcement authority over 3 things: treason, counterfeiting, and piracy of the high seas. 

Not trying to sound like a conspiracy theory nut or something but my Dad is a county sheriff and he has done a lot of investigating into this exact thing. The FBI, CIA, NSA, ATF, and all those other agencies with initials don't really have any authority over the laws that they supposedly enforce. They have usurped the constitution and taken authority that is not rightfully theirs, and we Americans have been brainwashed for so many generations to obey _all_ those in authority positions that we just allowed it to happen.

The highest law enforcement authority figure is your local elected sheriff. He decides what happens in his county and he is completely within his rights and authority to tell any of those government "agents" to politely kiss his *** and get out of his county if they show up and try to start running things. That's why it's so important to make sure that good sheriffs are elected. The only ones who may have authority over him would be your state officials like state police or, in my case, the Texas Rangers. I am unsure of the chain of command in that respect.

Anyway, getting off my high horse now.....



Lonestar22 said:


> The as long as there are people there will be weapons. And there will be criminals. I pray i never have to use a gun on a person, but when it comes down to me, a female, being home alone and someone breaks in I want to be able to have a chance at protecting myself.
> 
> Now if i didn't have a gun in that situation what would happen? Would i be robbed? Raped? Murdered?
> 
> I'd rather not find out.


This is the way that I feel as well. Due to the experience I got at my last job, I (unfortunately) know more about human nature and what really happens in the world than I ever wanted to. It has made me very cautious, bordering on paranoid. Because I have been trained for firearms, I am confident in my ability to carry and use them in a way that will protect me or another person. If there were no bad guys out there with guns, I don't know if I would still feel the need to carry one...maybe, maybe not. BUT, there will always be bad guys with guns and if nothing else, I _will_ be on equal ground with them in that respect.

Oh and just so everyone knows, when you practice shooting, aim center mass. When someone is coming at you, aim center mass. The chances for your average person to be able to hit an attacker in the leg during an emergency situation is very small and even if you do hit them, the odds that it will stop them are also relatively small. If they are determined or high enough to come toward a loaded gun, then a leg shot likely won't stop them. 

Also, just for your legal safety in the event you are ever involved in a shooting... if you tell the lawyers "I was taught to aim center mass so that's what I did", then that is a huge step in your defense. Also, never _ever ever_ utter the words "shoot to kill". Always just say you were "shooting to _stop_ him". Saying you were shooting to kill, even if you were the one being attacked, can get you a manslaughter charge.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Gun control is the Liberals way of making sure that a 120lbs woman maintains her right to wrestle with her 300lb rapist/murderer. Bad things happen even in Canada however in the US we have managed so far to maintain our right to defend ourselves. I don't want to rely on our overworked and spread-too-thin sherrifs department to defend myself or my family. Most assaults are over in less than a minute but the average police response time in an urban area(which I don't frequent) is more than 5 minutes. As far as I'm concerned the police are for the investigation of crimes NOT the prevention of them.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

I like the freedom to have guns. If someone busts into my house at 3:00am, it's certainly not for good intentions. A gun pointing at him will run him off before calling the authorities would. (Not saying I'd shoot him/her unless they tried to shoot me) Weapons are solely for self defense in my family's household, (except for the occasional target practice with my .22.) I'd rather be safe than sorry, cause I'm gonna need more than a bat if a burglar is armed.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> Gun control is the Liberals way of making sure that a 120lbs woman maintains her right to wrestle with her 300lb rapist/murderer. Bad things happen even in Canada however in the US we have managed so far to maintain our right to defend ourselves. I don't want to rely on our overworked and spread-too-thin sherrifs department to defend myself or my family. Most assaults are over in less than a minute but the average police response time in an urban area(which I don't frequent) is more than 5 minutes. As far as I'm concerned the police are for the investigation of crimes NOT the prevention of them.


Exactly, urban areas average 5 minutes. If you live in an area like mine, your closest cop may be 40 miles or more. Heck, you'd be dead, buried, and your house would be cleaned up before the cops got there.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Same here smrobs. Hell, you could be killed here and they would be lucky to find your body...


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I dint say a cop wouldnt help me, if he could. I said they wont, because they probably wont get there in time. Courts have also specifically ruled cops have no legal obligation to help any particular person. The specific case was Law enforcement was sued because a man was beaten to death , even though the cops were called over and over and never came. The family filed suit and lost. The judge ruled LEO, does the best they can but arnt legally obligated to protect or aid any particular person. That ruling opened the doors for our right to carry law.
Licensing, registration, and the like are just precursors to confiscation. Crooks wont do it. Right now we have licensing, registration, show ID, of the ingredients for crystal meth and look how well that works. It would be great to wave a magic wand and "poof" no bad guys get guns but it wont happen. Even if it could doesnt soemone of less physical stature have the right to the means of self defense ? 
Every totalitarian oppressive government in history has enacted arms control on the population before crushing freedoms.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

What some native Canadians don't seem to understand, is that deadly weapons have_ always_ been a part of US culture. Just because they don't _understand_ the culture doesn't mean we're a bloodthirsty, shoot first ask questions later, society.

That's bigotry, prejudice, profiling, and short sightedness at its very worst. I don't consider Canadians 'wimpy' because they don't have the death penalty or carry guns as a regular part of life, so for certain Canucks to believe we're all a bunch of murderous, gun totin' psychopaths really irks me.

Being able to own guns is part and parcel of American life. Not everyone has a gun, and the _majority_ of those that do are very respectful of the fact that firearms are deadly. 

I've taken the requisite courses and would never raise a gun in anger at another human being. However, if I pick it up, I have every intention of using it. Firearms are not to be used to 'threaten' anyone, because that's a good way to get yourself killed.

Those of us who understand and are comfortable with firearms know that they're a very useful tool. They're also a very _deadly_ tool, and anyone with any sense knows that they need to be respectful of that fact. They're not playthings, nor is it 'cool' to own them. 

If you're nervous or afraid of guns, then you should never own one. You should _especially_ never own one if you don't have the respect for what they can do, or understand the weightiness of responsibility just owning them entails.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> I dint say a cop wouldnt help me, if he could. I said they *wont*, because they probably wont get there in time.


Then don't say WON'T, say can't. It is a world of difference.



> Courts have also specifically ruled cops have no legal obligation to help any particular person.



Wrong. The courts say we have no legal obligation to *guarantee * Their safety. Again, HUGE difference.



> The specific case was Law enforcement was sued because a man was beaten to death , even though the cops were called over and over and never came. The family filed suit and lost. The judge ruled LEO, does the best they can but arnt legally obligated to protect or aid any particular person. That ruling opened the doors for our right to carry law.


I am very familiar with that case. It boiled down to the GUARANTEE of safety, which no one can make, even if they had protection 24/7. It is unreasonable to expect police to promise nothing bad will happen to you. If you are going to quote legal precedent, at least get the gist of the case correct.



> Licensing, registration, and the like are just precursors to confiscation. Crooks wont do it. Right now we have licensing, registration, show ID, of the ingredients for crystal meth and look how well that works.


Works better than you think. NC passed strict laws on the sale of Epi products. Meth production tanked and much of it moved elsewhere. Now, new methods of production are causing a challenge.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Allison said it all already. Joe, I wonder if you could give a _*reference *_to what you say before blaming the cops/law. They may be late? Of course. As well as ambulance, and firefighters. But I've seen them catching some "objects" in DC, MD and NYC. I also have seen them to respond to citizen complaints quite fast in MD and NYC.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

The LEO motto is 'to protect and serve', not GUARANTEE safety. _ Nobody_ can guarantee someone's safety, not even to themselves. :?

Kates, I have to address your post, too. You have the entirely_ wrong_ attitude about firearms. If you pick it up, you'd better have every intention of using it. 'Scaring' someone should_ never_ be the purpose behind picking up a weapon.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Interesting thread, and well-travelled, too. DH and I are gun owners, our guns are all registered, we've hunted some and Always had the appropriate/updated licenses. Most of our bullets end up killing possoms, and the last kill was 3 adult raccoons in my grain room who were terrorizing our barn cat matron, "Favorite," a 10 year old grey tabby.
Spyder, you are wise to fear _just anybody_ handling a gun. Here, in Illinois, the LAST bastion of "you can't carry a concealed weapon" in the U.S., we have to jump through all of the hoops to buy a gun. Therefore, any criminal--and DH has been hired to defend many of them in the course of his practice--that uses a gun during a crime has somehow gotten theirs _without_ jumping through those hoops. I'm not particularly afraid of them coming to my door bc I live too far away from the closest city. If that were to happen my first line of defense is my 2 dogs, friendly but definitely are watchdogs when we're away and at night. A criminal's bullet would put them down, so I figure my gun protects me AND my dogs.
No one has bothered to mention WHY our founding fathers gave us the 2nd amendment in the first place. * It was so the Americans could protect themselves against their own government.* When King George allowed British soldiers to "quarter" themselves in Colonial homes, they took what they wanted from the homeowners. Our Founding Fathers found this repugnant. When the Constituion was created from a thorough study of Ancient Greek, Ancient Roman and English Law, they (being very well educated in the history AND the law) allowed the future Americans the ability to change their country, but gave us the ability to protect ourselves against tyranny which they experienced as Colonists. This was when King George was trying to pay for the French and Indian War by overtaxing the Colonists. He figured that the Colonists were the biggest beneficiaries, so they should pay the most for it.
I live in a little town of 200, and we have many gun owners there. You are unlikely to see any of them walking around with their gun. We know that you only point a gun bc you will immediately use it. It is NOT a warning like a whip can be to a horse. However, if there is an incident at my house, I can guarantee my gun-owning neighbors will show up with their guns to help me.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> The LEO motto is 'to protect and serve', not GUARANTEE safety. _ Nobody_ can guarantee someone's safety, not even to themselves. :?
> 
> Kates, I have to address your post, too. You have the entirely_ wrong_ attitude about firearms. If you pick it up, you'd better have every intention of using it. 'Scaring' someone should_ never_ be the purpose behind picking up a weapon.


So killing someone should always be the purpose behind picking up a weapon? Right, and here I thought we wanted America to look non violent. I'm talking in the case of self defense only. Nothing will stop me from shooting someone if I have to. However if I have a feeling my house is getting broken into, I will have a gun on me for my own safety.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Katesrider011 said:


> *So killing someone should always be the purpose behind picking up a weapon?* Right, and here I thought we wanted America to look non violent. I'm talking in the case of self defense only. Nothing will stop me from shooting someone if I have to. However if I have a feeling my house is getting broken into, I will have a gun on me for my own safety.


That is not what she meant. She meant if your going to pick up a gun and point it at someone you better be prepared to shoot. Not necessarily to kill but to shoot. You dont just point guns at people to scare them. If you feel the need to even raise a gun and to point it at someone then there is a pretty good chance you will have to shoot. An you need to have the balls to do so. 

Guns arent something you just wave around.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, thank you Delete. That's exactly what I meant. 

Kates, if you pick up a gun, you should be intending to use it. Period. If not, then you have no business owning them.

If I have it in my hand (except for cleaning), I'm going to shoot something. Be it a target, a varmint, or someone breaking into my house. I haven't yet raised a gun against a human being and I hope to never find myself in that position, but you need to_ have_ that mindset if you're going to pick up a weapon.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Who ever said I just wave them around? I don't and I won't, I know better than that. When the person sees me with a gun at my side, he's not gonna stick around. That is all. I have nothing else to say on this thread.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Katesrider011 said:


> So killing someone should always be the purpose behind picking up a weapon? Right, and here I thought we wanted America to look non violent. I'm talking in the case of self defense only. Nothing will stop me from shooting someone if I have to. However if I have a feeling my house is getting broken into, I will have a gun on me for my own safety.


*Yes, incapacitating someone threatening your life is the ONLY reason to point your gun and then to shoot it.* NEVER point a gun as a warning!!! I do not want my country viewed as non-violent. Human nature is greedy, theft and violence is natural for desperate people. Criminals don't believe that they can get what they want in any other way. Heck, when we lived in town, we discovered that our 30 pound (at the time) dog prevented our house from being burgled, but our next door neighbors were robbed that same night. (DH was an asst. State's Attorney, and he heard about the robbery the morning after, in "Weekend Court." _"Hey, that could have been MY house.") _


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Katesrider011 said:


> Who ever said I just wave them around? I don't and I won't, I know better than that. When the person sees me with a gun at my side, he's not gonna stick around. That is all. I have nothing else to say on this thread.


Implying that you would point a gun at someone just to scare them. *That is just waving it around.* 

You have no business owning a gun if you just have it to scare people.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Before I go, I just want to clear things up. I don't _point_ guns at people without intentions of shooting. I however do not see anything wrong with having them at your side, for a possible burglar to see. Sorry for not being clear about that. Goodbye.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Katesrider011 said:


> A gun pointing at him will run him off before calling the authorities would. (Not saying I'd shoot him/her unless they tried to shoot me)


That seems pretty clear to me


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Corporal, my dog is my first line of defense. I know full well that a barking dog is the best deterrent, which is why I'll always have at least one around.

Guns should be taken seriously, or they need to be left alone. They're not toys, and shouldn't be used to 'scare' or 'threaten' anyone. They're not 'macho' or 'cool', they're just a tool like anything else.

If some piece of human scum has incapacitated or killed my dog, you can bet I'm not going to try and 'scare' them with my gun. The only warning they'll get is from the noise of the weapon being fired. If that makes me bloodthirsty in some people's eyes, so be it. If someone has killed my dog and is attempting to do me bodily harm, there's no way I'm going down without a fight.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

.Delete. said:


> That seems pretty clear to me


Okay, okay. It was stupid for me to word it that way. My apologies for being obviously misleading.

And sorry SR for taking you the wrong way. 

I know I've said goodbye like trillion times now, forgive me.  But I agree with y'all now.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I just don't want you getting killed with your own weapon, Kates. 

Too many people buy them, and think life is like the movies. While they're 'scaring' the bad guy with their big, bad gun, the bottom dweller is probably on his way to tackling them and taking it from them.

Firearms should always be your _last_ line of defense, not your first. I can't stress that enough. Which is why if my gun comes out, it's getting fired.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Agreed. The line "i wont shoot them unless they shoot at me" really worried me.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

MY first line of defense.
In the house~








outside~


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## Shasta1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

Interesting, yet sad thread going on here. Its too bad that the US is viewed by some as gun-wielding crazies. I've seen a gun, I've held gun, but I don't own one. I'm not sure where the majority of users on this forum are coming from, but I live in a large city and learning how to use, then subsequently buy a gun to protect myself has definitely crossed my mind. I have known two people personally who have been murdered (I would like to point out that neither was killed by gunshot). In both cases, they were being burglarized in their own homes. So with the reality of that, why _shouldn't_ I consider a firearm? Or at least a taser!

And I recall visiting Europe and being told to be vigilant about knife gangs. So violence is not contained to just the US. Wasn't there just a massive shooting in Norway this summer? 

I do not like, however, that our gun laws are filtering down to Mexico and creating pandemonium for the people there who are having to suffer at the hands of drug lords. THAT is a huge problem.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Shasta, the majority of gun owners on this thread don't live in the city. We tend to live in rural areas where the police force is either nonexistent, or stretched very thin.

That's not a dig at the police at all, just a statement of reality. They can't be everywhere at once, and we know that.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I feel safer alone in the woods without a gun, and generally never have one. I always have one when I am in the city, which is rare.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

...guarding the horses~








...sort of


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Although I live in the country now, I was born and raised in the suburbs just outside of NYC. I've had a carry permit since 1970 and I'm rarely, if ever, without a gun. I've had to use it once, and I saved another person from being mugged once by just allowing it to be seen.

I carry it on the trail, in the morning out to the barn, just about everywhere. 

It is second nature for me to carry one and I taught my 3 kids how to respect and handle one at an early age. What I feared was them going to a friend's house and that kid showing them their parent's gun. I taught them that the first thing they do is get out of the house. I also taught them how to disarm a gun that they may come across. All three are adults and 2 are married but none have had any interest in guns or hunting.


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## Shasta1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Shasta, the majority of gun owners on this thread don't live in the city. We tend to live in rural areas where the police force is either nonexistent, or stretched very thin.
> 
> That's not a dig at the police at all, just a statement of reality. They can't be everywhere at once, and we know that.


I figured as much but hate to make assumptions. 

My point was that even with a strong, reliable police presence in my area, I am thankul that I have the option to obtain a gun for my security in my own home. Heaven forbid I would ever need it.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Exactly. Better to have it and never need it, than need it and not have it.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Similar to something Jack LeGoff once told me when I left my whip at the barn during a training session;

"A good rider ALWAYS carries a whip and never uses it".

Same with owning (maybe not carrying) a gun.


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

interesting thread. not sure that i have anything of substance to contribute, i will however say that i fully support the right to bear arms.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I lived in one of the most dangerous cities in Illinois for 17 years. People had good reason to carry guns. 

I fully support the right to bear arms. Better to have it and not need it. I'd also rather be overcautious than naive.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

I don't personally believe in gun protection. In our country guns aren't common and not carried publicly and I experience our society very safety that way. Tho sure I cannot be sure if that's result or reason. They consider tightening the laws of having and owning guns even more stricter after the few school shooting cases that we've had. 

At some point I'd want to believe that more guns you've in your society, more guns you have to had so you can keep those other guns under control, or if you're able to to rub elbow with guns easily, you'll also more probably end up to commit a crime with one. In other words, decreasing guns will create less violence related to the guns. I still also think that every society and culture is different. If it's more probably to get raped when you go outside to take a walk, I can see a need of gun to protect you. Or if guns have always been a part of your culture. Tho I also believe that there is and should be other ways to decrease violence and therefore also guns but it's another story.

It's anyways very fascinating to see American way to think about guns. Differs so much from it what we've here.


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## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

I am 5 foot tall and weighed at the time about 115lbs. I was violently attacked by a man over 6ft who outweighed me by 100lbs or more. He did not have a weapon other than his fists. I fought him and lost. Then I got a gun. I will always have a gun because I will never be that helpless again. He could've killed me. I won't let anyone else have that chance. I don't care if they are armed or not. If they break into my home I will assume they are there to do harm and take appropriate action. As for the police, I couldn't get to a phone to call them. How could/can they protect me if they don't know what's happening. Hence why I believe in self protection. Maybe its the violence of America that made him attack me. Maybe some people are just awful. I don't know. And I don't really care why...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

crimsonsky said:


> interesting thread. not sure that i have anything of substance to contribute, i will however say that i fully support the right to bear arms.



I tried to resist, but ultimately had to give in to temptation


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> I haven't yet raised a gun against a human being and I hope to never find myself in that position, but you need to_ have_ that mindset if you're going to pick up a weapon.


Unfortunately, I _have_ and I can tell you, it is not a pleasant feeling to look at another human down the sights of a gun. That feeling is something that you can never quite prepare yourself for and it is certainly not something that you forget...ever.



Katesrider011 said:


> When the person sees me with a gun at my side, he's not gonna stick around.


That is the perfect mindset to get yourself hurt. To automatically assume that just because you have a gun that the bad guy will be scared and avoid confrontation will make you overconfident. If you are overconfident, then you are under-prepared. Did you know that the average criminal can cover a distance of 28 feet before the average gun owner can even pull their gun from their holster? Criminals know that just as well as cops do, but cops get training to increase that distance and give themselves more time. Unfortunately, weapons retention and practical thinking are not part of the average weapons class that most folks take so they don't know the tricks to maximize your chances. If you assume that some criminal will run away whenever he sees that you have a gun, then you will allow him to get too close to you before you react and he'll already have slit your throat and stabbed you in the heart before you even reach for your gun.

SR is completely correct. So many people believe that carrying a gun is just like the movies, that the bad guy will tuck tail and run when he realizes that you have a gun and you'll always be able to draw the gun and get a good sight line before they get close to you. That's wrong. Most of the time, they already know if you are carrying or not before they decide to attack you. If they decide not to, you'll never know that you were in danger. If they decide to go ahead, there will be no "OMG, this guy has a gun, this was a mistake" thought on his part. They will get to you ask quickly as they can and they will finish you to keep you from fighting back or maybe getting to your gun.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I have owned guns and enjoy shooting guns. For me it is purely recreational though. I currently do not have any guns, and do not intend on buying one for self protection right now. 

However last night I hit a deer and although it lived, it's back was clearly broken. My first thought was how I wished I had a gun on me to put her out of her suffering so I didn't have to wait for the police to come around. Poor thing. 

I support the right to bare arms. You can buy guns in just about every Walmart here and it is not difficult to purchase one. However when I was in NZ and not even the police carried fire arms, I felt just as safe.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> I have owned guns and enjoy shooting guns. For me it is purely recreational though. I currently do not have any guns, and do not intend on buying one for self protection right now.
> 
> However last night I hit a deer and although it lived, it's back was clearly broken. My first thought was how I wished I had a gun on me to put her out of her suffering so I didn't have to wait for the police to come around. Poor thing.
> 
> *I support the right to bare arms.* You can buy guns in just about every Walmart here and it is not difficult to purchase one. However when I was in NZ and not even the police carried fire arms, I felt just as safe.


 
Dove, I , too, support the right to roll up my sleeves!
Just teasing you!


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

smrobs said:


> Unfortunately, I _have_ and I can tell you, it is not a pleasant feeling to look at another human down the sights of a gun. That feeling is something that you can never quite prepare yourself for and it is certainly not something that you forget...ever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I ended up Agreeing with Speed Racer, I admit I was wrong, and I apologized.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Well at least this thread confirms the picture I originally posted.











Also that the killing of people just doesn't seem to have any effect on the population as a whole.

I still remember the scene from a certain hockey game a few years ago and it was so telling about the nature and attitude of violence in the US.

sad really.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, I'm sure you needn't worry Spyder. If you ever come to visit the US, we'll make sure to never use our guns to protect you. 

:roll:


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Spyder, I don't really see your point in starting this thread. You have contributed very little to the debate, and what you have said is just plain wrong. The US has violence like every country, and gun control has little to do with it. 
You might actually learn something from this article
Can Gun Control Reduce Crime? Part 2

Unless your point is because we like guns, whether we use them or not, makes us violent. I guess then likeing cars would also make us violent. After all, they kill more people than guns.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

smrobs said:


> Well, I'm sure you needn't worry Spyder. If you ever come to visit the US, we'll make sure to never use our guns to protect you.
> 
> :roll:


Well that is a relief then.:wink:


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I don't know, Spyder. This article is from;
Statistics Canada
Statistics Canada: Canada's national statistical agency / Statistique Canada : Organisme statistique national du Canada

I think you ought to consider a gun. Canada is not as safe as you may think.

_________________________________________________________________


Wednesday, February 20, 2008
2006
The 2006 rate of violent crime involving the use of firearms in Canada remained stable for the fourth consecutive year, according to a new study examining trends in gun violence.

Canadian police services reported just over 8,100 victims of violent gun crime, ranging from assault to robbery and homicide, accounting for 2.4% of all victims of violence. Handguns made up nearly two-thirds of all firearms used.

Violent crimes were more often committed with other types of weapons than guns. Knives accounted for 6.2% of violent victimizations and clubs or other blunt instruments were used against 3.0% of victims.

Police-reported data showed that among young people, the use of guns in violent crime is increasing. The rate of youth aged 12 to 17 accused of a firearm-related offence has risen in three of the past four years, increasing 32% since 2002. The overall firearm-related crime rates for youth were driven primarily by robberies.

In 2006, 1,287 young people were accused of a violent offence in which a gun was used. They accounted for 2.8% of all youth accused of violence; in contrast, 1.8% of adults accused of a violent offence had used a firearm.

Generally, the highest rates of gun violence in 2006 were found in Canada's largest cities. Vancouver had the highest rate among all census metropolitan areas (CMAs), followed by Winnipeg and Toronto. Among youth, however, the rates of violence involving firearms were highest in Toronto and Saskatoon.

About three-quarters of the total number of violent victimizations involving guns in 2006 were robbery and assault. Although the incidence of attempted murder and homicide was much lower, about one-third of these offences were committed with a firearm.

Adults convicted of a violent gun crime were sentenced, on average, to just over four years in prison, double the typical sentence length of those convicted of the same violent offence where a firearm had not been used.

One-quarter of firearm-related victimizations occur in Toronto

A total of 1,993 people in the Toronto CMA were victims of a violent offence related to guns in 2006, about one-quarter of the national total.

However, in terms of rates which take into account differences in population, Toronto was third highest behind Vancouver and Winnipeg.

In Vancouver, there were 45.3 violent offences involving guns for every 100,000 population, the highest rate in the nation and well above the national average of 27.5. Winnipeg's rate was 43.9 and Toronto's was 40.4.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

there are plenty of people who are not the lease bit interested in violence, of any sort. We are just outshouted and out mediaed (not a real word) by the people who find it a great source of amusement, and money.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Allison Finch said:


> I don't know, Spyder. This article is from;
> Statistics Canada
> Statistics Canada: Canada's national statistical agency / Statistique Canada : Organisme statistique national du Canada
> 
> I think you ought to consider a gun. Canada is not as safe as you may think.


Heck

Never said Canada is safe. In fact with the immigration rate the way it is I feel less safe than I did 10-15-20 years ago.

I just believe that the US can shout louder than most other countries.:rofl:

And Whisper..your reply is absolutely irrelevant.:roll:


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Lets get back to topic, folks. If this gets personal, we'll close it.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I like having the right to protect myself. Plain an simple. People would kill people wether they have a gun or not. Crime and violence would still happen wether we had guns or not

I don't need the government to hold my hand. I can protect myself just fine with my gun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

When guns are not accessible, stabbings and things of that nature go up. 

I am kind of confused at the implication that Americans are unphased by killing...


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Spyder said:


> Heck
> 
> Never said Canada is safe. In fact with the immigration rate the way it is I feel less safe than I did 10-15-20 years ago.
> 
> ...


I see you're not disagreeing with me. 
All I can tell is that you started a thread with a statement that you knew no one was going to agree with, stood back and waited for several people to NOT agree with you, for the purpose of popping back up just to say "See, you're all violent people!" Isn't that manipulative of you, but somehow it doesn't surprise me that you would do that.


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## Serendipitous (May 27, 2011)

Spyder said:


> Well at least this thread confirms the picture I originally posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are some pretty sweeping generalities. If that picture is the way the United States comes off to you, whatever. But by the end of your post you've switched from talking about your perceptions: "this is how your country comes off to me" to opinion masquerading as fact: "this (one hockey game) is indicative of your WHOLE country's mentality when it comes to violence," which I find to be ridiculous. But not quite as ridiculous as the implication that Americans are somehow more numb to people dying than other countries. Have you ever even been to the U.S.?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Spyder said:


> Heck
> 
> Never said Canada is safe. In fact with the immigration rate the way it is I feel less safe than I did 10-15-20 years ago.
> 
> .


Gee thanks, as a very new Canadian Citizen, I'm sorry I have affected your perception of safety:twisted:

Or do you exclude white middle aged women from the potential threat


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Serendipitous said:


> Those are some pretty sweeping generalities. If that picture is the way the United States comes off to you, whatever. But by the end of your post you've switched from talking about your perceptions: "this is how your country comes off to me" to opinion masquerading as fact: "this (one hockey game) is indicative of your WHOLE country's mentality when it comes to violence," which I find to be ridiculous. But not quite as ridiculous as the implication that Americans are somehow more numb to people dying than other countries. Have you ever even been to the U.S.?



Been to the US...Yes.

I referred to the hockey game because of what precipitated before the brawl that day and it was in the stands...not the players...who were appalled by the goings on actually. It was written up on both Canadian and American media with interesting points of views from that source also.

The brawl simply made me say to myself...hmmm well what else would I have expected. So no my perception didn't change, just had me shaking my head.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I find your mention of hockey ironic in this thread. Hockey is as much Canadian as it is American - if not more so. And Canadian-born player are seeping in violence. 

I mean come on - Bertuzzi? Your non-violent Canadian comrade came up behind a US player and punched him in the back of the head knocking him out. Not to mention many of the players on American teams that are noted for violence are actually Canadian born. Matt Cooke is one that comes to mind.

And lets not leave out the Canadian hockey fans! How about Vancouver? All nice and safe until it looses the Stanley cup.

And I still don't understand how hockey relates to guns. Nor how owning guns equates violence. I own guns. I like to practice shooting with guns. But I don't even want to go hunting with guns as I don't think I could stomach shooting an animal. (Just my personal feeling - nothing against hunters at all) Yet if it came down to my safety or that of my family vs. pulling my gun and shooting on a threat - I would do it in an instant. The gun will at least give me a chance in an otherwise uneven fight. Do I expect to ever be attacked? No, but I would prefer to be prepared. 

Its like having fire extinguishers and smoke detectors in your home. You never expect to have a fire and you do things to prevent fires and you hope you never have to use those tools in that type of situation, but you have them because they are tools that may help you get out safe and survive.


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## BlondieHorseChic (May 6, 2011)

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. SOOOOOOOOOOOOO TRUE!!!!!!!!!! Sad, but true.
Lots of people here have guns. But it's more of a ******* thing and LOTZ of people who hunt for their food. Many of the hunters take it really seriously and are extremely safe. (yes sometimes you have the really bad accidents)
I also agree that as long as bad people have guns and want to harm we should have a way to protect ourselves and family.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Cat said:


> All nice and safe until it looses the Stanley cup.


Please forgive me - that was supposed to be *loses* - its been a long day.


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## BlondieHorseChic (May 6, 2011)

Another thing I have to add is: (keep in mind I'm not blaming the media)
Much of the media (movies, books, games, news) is focusing on the violence and blood and killing. As a society I sadly feel we have come to accept, and in some cases even laugh at the death portrayed in many movies, books and games because we say 'oh, it's not real'. This mentality is exactly what gets us into thinking real killing is ok because when you see real killing you are so numb to the meaning of death we shrug our shoulders and move on. I sadly feel that some if the criminals get ideas of torture from some of the movies now a days. It is down right scary and sometimes makes me never want to leave my house.
Human morals are terrible nowadays. Many people are so heartless and just dont care the slightest bit. not caring + bad morals + weapon = death to others. Sad as it may be it is true.
People are killing for the stupidest reasons too which makes it even worse.
I really think that if people found deep in their hearts the ability to care for and friendily love others you would find a completely different place. It all just starts with removing the unnecessary violence from everyday life.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Cat said:


> Please forgive me - that was supposed to be *loses* - its been a long day.



Same here.

I don't know how many people remember the incident when _two gun happy pilots_ gunned down *FRIENDLY units even though they were clearly marked and were told that they were FRIENDLY units* over in Afghanistan.

The friendly units were Canadians and I believe there were other units from other countries also mowed down. The gun happy pilots were reprimanded later.

It was all over in the news esp since *they were told friendly units were there.*

How does that relate to a hockey game...well

Later that evening a Canadian team were in I believe New York or Boston, I can't remember which city. EVERYONE ( including Canadian fans) respectfully were silent when the American anthem was played. HOWEVER when the Canadian anthem was played jeers, insults and beer bottle were thrown. Of course this resulted in a brawl in the STANDS not the ice or between the players. The players from both teams had nothing to do with it and were actually appalled.

THAT hockey game incident was played by the media on both sides with different points of view. Not only were the the fans basically representing their American outlook at visiting teams_ their timing_ for such a display show extreme poor taste and if I remember correctly even the US president made an apologetic comment.

The view over here is...well what do you expect from them. This view is not JUST MINE but all of Canada.

So Cat that is where the mentality of if you have guns just mow down anything that moves comes from.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Spyder said:


> ...
> The view over here is...well what do you expect from them. This view is not JUST MINE but all of Canada.
> ...


Pretty broad statement for you to make that ALL Canadians hold that point of view. Considering that the ones I know, beside you (and I barely claim that as I only know what drivel you post here) do not. I think you need to rethink you assumptions and maybe talk to people outside of your "circle" before making such sweeping statements about the mentality of everyone in your country or any country for that matter.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> Pretty broad statement for you to make that ALL Canadians hold that point of view. Considering that the ones I know, beside you (and I barely claim that as I only know what drivel you post here) do not. I think you need to rethink you assumptions and maybe talk to people outside of your "circle" before making such sweeping statements about the mentality of everyone in your country or any country for that matter.



YOUR view is irrelevant as that is what the media posted and sorry this is the view OUTSIDE my circle of friends, nor is it confined to just Canada.

I am just posting what was reported in the media and their comments taken from the average person on the street the day after...people I don't even know. But since YOU were not the person on the street you would not expect to know what people here think.

This very thread and the comments on it simply prove that the thinking in the US is pretty much as I expected.

It is sad that most comments made here do not make any effort to convince me that I am wrong but in fact defend the right to load up with guns.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

What was the point in creating this thread if you already had it made up in your little mind that the US is what you beleive it is? Seems to me that you were looking for drama or a fight...


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Since we are no longer on target and it is getting personal with no new points of view. It's time to end the thread.


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