# Is Tungsten Bay?



## Loyalty09 (Apr 23, 2011)

First of all, I am no color expert, at all. Anyway, I always assumed Tungsten is bay because he has black points. However, he does not have black points on his ears at all. His coat is pretty bleached right not because he is out 8 hours a day, weather permitting. 

I have only have him for 4 months. His winter coat was so dark it looked black. When he shed, but before the weather permitted good turnout, he stayed pretty dark, but now he is really bleached and I have no idea. His face does not bleach and he does not have dark points on his ears.


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## Loyalty09 (Apr 23, 2011)

Oh and here is his mom and dad


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I would say that he is either a fading black or a smoky black. He may have inherited a cream gene from his dam. His lighter color in those pictures seems to be more sun fading than actual color difference to me.


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## Loyalty09 (Apr 23, 2011)

Is fading black a color or literally fading black?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

No, it's just black but there is something in the hair that makes it more prone to sun bleaching and fading out. So there really isn't a gene for the "fading" part of it...that I know of anyway.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Fading black is a horse who is genetically black that gets sun bleached. A non-fading black doesn't. They aren't sure what is the difference yet on a genetic level though, as both types can be heterozygous or homozygous. I lean towards smoky black too though - a black horse with one cream gene 

ETA: Snap Smrobs


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

What's a buckskin? A Cr gene and a black gene with a agouti gene?

He could be a dark bay, black (which I doubt), or a smokey black. I'm leaning towards dark bay, as the bleaching on his body very obviously stops at the legs and it seems very uniform.

Here's my DNA tested smokey black colt:










You can also see the white/blonde hairs in his tail, which he still has at three years old


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The problem with smoky black is that it can be anywhere from light like your boy, right through to no different from non-fading black. It is one of those colours that can only ever be confirmed by testing, or by knowing exactly what the parents are passing on.


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## Loyalty09 (Apr 23, 2011)

mayfield: for dark bay wouldn't he still have to have tipped ears or lighter color around his eyes?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Mayfieldk, a buckskin is black+2 cream genes+agouti. 1 cream gene would be bay.

Of course, the only way to know 100% would be to have him tested, but I would bet money on either black or smoky black.


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## Jacksmama (Jan 27, 2010)

Actually, I believe a buckskin is black+agouti+ 1 cream. 2 creams would be a perlino. A bay is black+agouti. 

I am going to go with smoky black as well, he looks sooooo much like the smoky black stud at the farm I board at! He also has black black legs. Since mom was buckskin she could very possibly have passed on the cream gene, and we know dad only passed black.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Jacks, you are correct, I had my information backward. Thank you.


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## Loyalty09 (Apr 23, 2011)

I may have him tested, just out of curiosity. I just bought some spray to prevent bleaching. Even though most the damage is done for summer, to prevent damage to his incoming coat. 

I love genetics. I hardly know any about horses and colors. It seems so interesting. It's something I want to learn at some point. Thanks everyone!


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## To ride the sky (May 30, 2011)

I would put my money on Smoky Black! Here's my Smoky Black Mare! She also has black legs but is not a bay just like your guy. You can see the smoky colour in her entire coat especially chest and the hairs in her ears, and a tiny bit of the burgundy colour in her mane and tail as well.

The fact that one of his parents is buckskin means that he could have a copy of the creme gene which would make him Smoky black.


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## To ride the sky (May 30, 2011)

THe other thing I was going to mention is eye colour. Most Smoky blacks have lighter eyes even darkblue eyes. My mare you can see in this photo has Amber eyes. This is a pic of her as a foal but she still has amber eyes now I just don't have any close up photos at my fingertips at the moment. So yes the light ear hair, lighter eyes (not the typical very dark brown as a black/bay horse would have) and the overall smoky tone throughout their entire coat and most of the way down the legs is what you are looking for to identify him as a Smoky Black. Here is my baby as a baby


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

mayfieldk said:


> What's a buckskin? A Cr gene and a black gene with a agouti gene?
> 
> He could be a dark bay, black (which I doubt), or a smokey black. I'm leaning towards dark bay, as the bleaching on his body very obviously stops at the legs and it seems very uniform.
> 
> ...


Interesting because Bourbon looks alot like him her mama was a tested smokey black and daddy was a bay roan my filly has the same light markings and she was also born a silvery color I think I need to have her tested.


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