# Mini Mule Rescue - can't be touched



## Mulefeather

I would try a combination of things. Firstly, you're correct that while he might love animal crackers, they're not good for him. Mules and donkeys are basically set up by biology to be like insulin-resistant horses. 

I would look into clicker training since he seems to be motivated by food. It's really effective with mules and donkeys, and you can start him off very basically by teaching him to target an object. You can get HIM to touch YOU, rather than the other way around. I would start with a fence or gate between the two of you until he's got a better handle on it, and you do as well. They learn that earning a click is what gets them treats, not mugging you or being aggressive. 

Mules that haven't been handled are super-wiley and mistrustful. So you'll have to spend a lot of time with him just getting to know him and making your presence a good one in his life. If he's not separated from other animals yet, I'd do it. Basically, treat him like you'd treat a wild donkey you got from the BLM. You want to be the thing he looks forward to most in his day, and you don't want to let him out into a big area where you'll never be able to catch him again. 

Along with clicker training, sit out with him in a chair and just read a book. If he approaches you, good. If he doesn't, also okay.


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## anndankev

subbing


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## wbwks

Mulefeather is right on, I would also add that you should not free feed him hay or have him out in pasture. 

He needs to depend on you for everything, including feed and water. In this way he doesn't have a choice but to look forward to your visits. 

One more thing, if he isn't gelded - be sure you aren't anywhere near him when he gets it done or gets injections. You don't want him to associate any of that nasty business with you. 

I bought a 6 mo old mini and he never did get to be a friendly dude, I got him halter broke, good with his hooves and body clipping but he had no use for stinky humans at all. I eventually traded him for a POA that is now being bred to a Jack. 
Good luck!!!


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## blueriver

Post #4 will tell u just why you have to take control ... treats, animal crackers will not train a mule.

Run this mule into a chute, halter and lead rope the mule, hobble this mule in 4 way hobbles and within a few hrs this mule will know who's in charge.

The mule will submit and understand who's in control ... Mules are a whole different breed and take different training.

A suggestion ... IMO ... may not be for your liking.


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## Mulefeather

Blueriver, I am going to respectfully disagree with your statement. 

Mules and donkeys are a different animal than horses. They don't have the same social structure as horses or other equids, and horse tactics don't work on them. A mule or donkey that is basically forced into submission will only ever fear you and learn that people = pain and fear. 

With long-ears, the bond and trust is 110% paramount. All they will do is shut down on you when pushed too far, and once they are brought to that level of fear they will never, EVER trust you or anyone else again, barring some very uncharacteristically forgiving souls. Examples of this are roping donkeys or donkeys that have been seriously abused and mistreated. 

Long-ears are all about self-preservation. I have found that clicker training gives them a feeling of control over the situation when they are feeling afraid or mistrustful. If I took this little guy out and started having him target a soft piece of foam on the end of a stick (I like dollar-store foam pool toys because they're not anything they've usually seen before and therefore have no negative associations), I could move him around a pen, get him to hold still or come closer for petting, and I could even make him target my hand so that touching me became something he CHOSE to do - WILLINGLY. 

I've taught ponies to fetch using the same method


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## stevenson

perhaps you could use carrots cut up into very small pieces as a treat instead of cookies. 
I like Mule Feathers suggestions.


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## blueriver

Mulefeather said:


> Blueriver, I am going to respectfully disagree with your statement.
> 
> Mules and donkeys are a different animal than horses. They don't have the same social structure as horses or other equids, and horse tactics don't work on them. A mule or donkey that is basically forced into submission will only ever fear you and learn that people = pain and fear.
> 
> With long-ears, the bond and trust is 110% paramount. All they will do is shut down on you when pushed too far, and once they are brought to that level of fear they will never, EVER trust you or anyone else again, barring some very uncharacteristically forgiving souls. Examples of this are roping donkeys or donkeys that have been seriously abused and mistreated.
> 
> Long-ears are all about self-preservation. I have found that clicker training gives them a feeling of control over the situation when they are feeling afraid or mistrustful. If I took this little guy out and started having him target a soft piece of foam on the end of a stick (I like dollar-store foam pool toys because they're not anything they've usually seen before and therefore have no negative associations), I could move him around a pen, get him to hold still or come closer for petting, and I could even make him target my hand so that touching me became something he CHOSE to do - WILLINGLY.
> 
> I've taught ponies to fetch using the same method


You are so right with every statement you made and thats whats great about a forum we all have a voice. 

I have no experience "clicker" training. Several of the mules and one mammoth donkey that I have worked with have placed well in shows as well some have gone on team penning, calf roping, endurance riding and under harness ... single, double, three a breast and 6 up.

Its difficult the older you get to recall how many as well its difficult to fully understand other folks and the training they use!!


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## blueriver

I'd like to add ... I've never had a mule shut down and I've pushed them past the limit always asking for more and they will give it.

I have had mules that are scared beyond fear become some of the best.

Todays mules are different than grandpas mules. They used to take that old know nothing mare and put a jack on her. Today we find breeders using quality mares on exceptional jacks to produce a great mule.


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## Mulefeather

I agree that it’s great we all have a voice, and I’m glad you were able to find a method that worked well for you. Clicker training is one of the top things in my “bag of tricks” where long-ears are concerned, but it’s certainly not the only thing. I’ve also studied trainers like Crystal Ward (RIP) and Steve Edwards and have found things I like in all 3 philosophies. Steve Edwards was a hard sell for me at first because he seemed to advocate harsh methods, but he’s a bit like Clinton Anderson in that he wants to establish a firm foundation of respect first and foremost, and he builds off that. It’s great for a green/pushy/ disrespectful critter, but not so much one that’s just starting to come out of its shell, IMO. This animal is also a rescue, but OP hasn’t said if there was any abuse involved. Honestly for most minis, it’s a lack of handling rather than outright abuse (in my experience at least). Minis of all stripes tend to be the Chihuahuas of the horse world- they need training and socializing the most, but people think of them like stuffed toys that will break if you look at them cross-eyed or put basic groundwork on them. 

They can certainly be pushed, but I am willing to bet the mules you worked with already had a relationship with you, even a working one. They were probably used to being touched and handled. If you’ve got their trust and respect, asking them to push past fear isn’t such a big deal – I did it with my mule plenty of times. The reason I leaned toward clicker in this case is because it’s easy to do with an animal that can’t be touched, and the concept is pretty quick to pick up for most people. It’s a really good way to build trust and positive associations for an animal that can’t otherwise be handled – one of the reasons most zoos and aquariums use it.


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## ChitChatChet

I got a donkey that had been abused 2 owners previous.

It took a couple of years for her to learn she could trust us completely. Started out we could walk up to her back end with a curry comb and start brushing there. Very slowly we where able to work out way up to her head. She had to live in a halter for months till she finally was ok with us slipping one on. Couple of years of this we could walk up to her head with a halter.... no curry comb needed, anywhere she was. She was an incredible donkey, just needed patience.

We packed and rode her. Sweet, sweet donkey.


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## loveduffy

Just welcome to the forum


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## Hesalittlepistol

Holy smoke you all are amazing. I'm new to this forum, and joined for help with him. We don't know about abuse, he came from a feed lot auction to a rescue place, and I got him from the rescue place. He has no visible scars or wounds. They assumed he was gelded because he acted so afraid of people and couldn't be touched. He was sold to me as gelded but then I just got an email from the rescue place saying now we aren't sure, you better check.... He was sold as a pair at auction, and they said they were trained to drive. Corners of his mouth do look calloused up, so I'm pretty sure he's had a bit in his mouth. My take on it is the original owners were well meaning but un-knowledgeable, and they 'trained' them until my guy (Pistol for short) became completely unmanageable and they were dumped at auction. I've had donkeys in the past, have a horse now (done horses all my life), new to mules. Did some reading, and I'm learning (I think) mules love games! And Pistol loves games and loves to be in control. He is alone in the barn during the day in a box stall. I know not to put him out - first of all how would I do it anyway - and I know - I think - he has to stay in that stall until he'll work with me. I know he's settled in here because a few days ago I came down to the barn and called out my hello to him as I was walking down the aisle and found him snoozing, or just getting up from a snooze. I stood in front of his stall and he looked at me and then got up. As of yesterday / today, I can stroke his nose with one finger - as long as he knows there is a cookie coming. I've started really spreading the cookies out, and he'll decide I can't touch him if he doesn't think he's getting a cookie. This is truly cluing me there is a game going on here and I'm not winning. I have no experience with clicker training but my sister has a clicker book and extra clicker that she is mailing to me (thought it was going to be here today, darn it!)


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## Hesalittlepistol

That was supposed to be .."they assumed he was abused because he acted so afraid of people"


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## george the mule

Hi Li'lPistol!

Listen to Ms. Feather, she knows whereof she speaks 

I really think the first thing you need to do is make friends with your new mini. However long it takes, the time spent will be well rewarded.

I will comment that while all of my equine friends will play clicker games, George is by far the most unrelentingly enthusiastic about earning "clicks". I will also note in passing that he hates being segregated from his herd, just HATES it . . . And he lets the rest of the neighborhood know about it, too.

For a head start on the "clicker" thing, check out Karen Priors web site. 
Clicker Training Basics | Karen Pryor Clicker Training
Karen does dogs, but Alex Kurland clicker trains horses, and contributes there as well. Same basics in any event.

Have fun! Steve


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## Hesalittlepistol

Thanks George, and I will check that site on clicker training, and I'm all ears to mulefeathers. Pistol doesn't like being alone during the day either, but I'm down to the barn morning feeding, lunch, evening feeding to bring in my horse, and late feeding, so he sees me a lot. This morning I got a kiss for a cookie, but it went downhill from there. Based on all the posts that you can't train mules with cookies, I'm cutting back even more on my rewards, but now he's confused because I've changed the rules. You can see in his eyes and the set of his ears and the fact that he is much more reluctant to come to me - whether I'm in the stall cleaning it or outside the stall leaning over the stall door. I don't blame him. One of my training things has always been try for 100% consistency, and I've broken my own rule. I hope I get my clicker today, I don't like negative progress.


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## Hesalittlepistol

How do you reinforce with clicker training getting an animal to come to you? If he's on the far side of the stall and takes a step towards me I should click - but since he's still on the other side of the stall how do I reward? Should I be posting this in a training blog?


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## Mulefeather

If he's on the other side of a stall and looks at you, you can gently throw the reward near him if he'll pick it up off the ground. You may have to do some "charging" of the clicker on this one so he realizes the sound means "reward incoming". Just standing with him and click/treat, click/treat, then look for the behavior you want to reward.


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## george the mule

Hi Again!

I don't think mulefeather meant _no_ treats; you can give him treats, sure, just watch the sugar and starch content. These aren't particularly good for any equine, but more so for donks, who evolved to exist on a very meager diet. Mules lie somewhere in between.

Sliced carrots are good, and grains in moderation. I give the smaller Alfalfa cubes as treats; they aren't as highly sought after as sweets, but they are accepted graciously. George likes corn husks, get 'em free at the grocery store. George also likes corn-on-the-cob, but he only gets that once in awhile.

Like most of the good things in life, moderation is the key 

ByeBye! Steve


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## Mulefeather

Sorry I didn't see what you were posting before - cookies definitely are a no-go because they contain a lot of sugar and stuff that isn't good for long-ears. George is absolutely right - use carrots, alfalfa cubes, hay stretcher pellets, low-sugar horse cookies (think ones meant for horses with Cushings or Insulin Resistance). 

You may have to play around and see what he REALLY likes, and as long as it's not processed food meant to be eaten by people, you could probably get away with fruit or veggies that are a little higher in sugar for right now. Once he's a little more settled you can cut back. Just remember to keep it in moderation. Carrots are convenient, cheap, and he can easily see it/pick it up if you have to toss it. 

Also, keep in mind right now - NO MORE FREE TREATS. He's got to earn them. Think of them like a paycheck rather than a bribe - something he gets in exchange for earning that "yes" signal (the click marker). 

If you're on Facebook, I belong to a group called "Positively Mules and Donkeys" that focuses on positive reinforcement/operant conditioning training for long-ears. It's very active and people are very helpful!


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## TessaMay

Mulefeather, thanks for posting that group, I will be joining :wink:

OP - We recently rescued a mule and have been working on clicker training with her. She is not fearful, but has some ground manners that need to be a bit improved. She took to it way faster than even my very intelligent horse did. Definitely do some reading up so that you understand the concepts and then give it a try. There's not much you can't do with that method once the mule understands how to get rewards.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Hi mulefeathers, I'm not on facebook a lot but that's about to change, and I will join that group. George sent me a link on getting started with clicker training which looks great and has a lot of stuff for the beginner. I try not to give free treats - well my horse gets tons of them but that's a whole different subject. Pistol will still do kiss for a cookie, but since I cut cookies back he's not letting me touch him anymore. Mulefeathers, you seem to know a lot, why is that? He knows I'm not going to hurt him, or am I expecting too much too fast? He'll have been here 2 weeks tomorrow.


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## I heart horses

you can also try the old "sleep in the stall" trick
Where you basically spend as much time as you can just hanging out in the stall, reading a book or writing, or some other quiet activity in a corner of the stall. Just live in the same space, don't try and do anything with him while you're hanging out in there, just relax and ignore him, he should eventually come up to you, but it could take a while.

It helps them realize you're not a big scary equine eater.

Works well with dogs too.


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## Mulefeather

Pistol- Patience is key, especially with a frightened/wary animal. Keep your goals small and your sessions short - no more than 5-10 minutes at a shot, a few times a day. Mules can be challenging to "unwind" when they really don't trust people, so patience is your friend. 

Think of it this way- if for the first three years of your life all you knew was some weird-looking creatures fed you and sometimes, unpredictably, did scary things to you every other time they touched you - then one suddenly comes up and says "Hey, I'd like to be your friend!", you'd trust what you KNEW happened rather than what you didn't know. Mules are like this. 

As far as how I know so much, I've just had the opportunity to try these concepts out with a lot of different animals over time. I'm by no means an expert on training or the clicker, but I use what works. Some of it's just trial and error. I've played around with it with big horses, minis, mules, dogs, ferrets...and ducks. 

IHeartHorses has a good tip in that spending time with him doesn't need to mean training him - just making your presence not be a scary thing. I do like the "chair in the paddock with a good book" routine myself.


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## Hesalittlepistol

My sister's clicker book (Alexandra Kurland) and clicker arrived today. Hopefully he will become less terrified of the sound about the same time I start to feel less awkward with it. He's liking carrots, so I'm going to load up tonight. I kept that first session short - he would have loved to jump right out of the stall - and I'll do as many as it takes to get the connection down. He's a pretty smart cookie (as well as being a little pistol), so we should be good within a few days. Mulefeathers - good point about what he knows was true versus what I'm trying to get him to believe. I did spend some time in his stall today sitting on a milk carton. Then I needed to stretch my legs which I guess made me look bigger and caused a lot of concern. But he did eventually seem to be having trouble staying awake. Sometimes when I leave the barn he'll complain.


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## Hesalittlepistol

I'd love comments on 2 things.
1.) Pistol WILL touch me. He does kiss for a cookie, and if he knows I have a treat in my hand and I put my arm over the stall door, he will come and touch my hand for the treat. The problem comes when I try to touch him (pinned ears, tail lash, and retreat).
2.) I'm a real newbie at CT, but my first goal with Pistol is either that he stand still while I come to him, or he voluntarily comes to me. When he was getting over his fear of the sound of the clicker, I noticed he was standing in the same place in the stall. I think he is associating standing there with the click and the treat. My sister tells me asking him to do nothing isn't CT and isn't training him. Since it's what I want him to do, I'm a little confused. Feedback?


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## TessaMay

Well, you want him to stand there and let you approach him right? So technically you want him to do nothing :wink:

I would say work on taking a step toward him. If he stands rather than putting his ears back, stepping away, etc. click and treat. As he gets that, make it two steps, then three, then reaching out toward him, etc..


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## Mulefeather

Tessa is correct - start out by breaking the process down into smaller chunks, then you slowly increase.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Thanks TessaMay and I will definitely try that. Incidentally, I am spending time sitting on a milk crate in his stall. When I started doing it he just would sort of freeze, and stand in a corner of the stall, but now he'll look me over for 10 or 15 seconds and go back to eating his hay. :wink:


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## Hesalittlepistol

ZOWWEE!!!! The click and the carrot are finally connected. I brought in my milk crate this morning, and he was standing in a different spot in the stall. I inched my crate closer and he didn't move so I C/R. HE TURNED TOWARDS ME!!!! The light finally came on! Ears up, all interested, my very food oriented little boy! So I C/R. And he took a baby step towards me!! C/R. This went on until I ran out of the cut up carrots I'd brought. Step towards me meant C/R, and he has that down. Unfortunately, the little brat will take the carrot and take a step back - nothing I can do about that, and I'm still going to reward him for taking a step towards me. So he only allowed himself to get just so close to me before he started the step forward / step back routine. I'm still thrilled beyond anything (can you tell? lol). I think we finally have a direction in this.


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## Mulefeather

Isn't it awesome when you see that "lightbulb" moment! I know it's a slow process, but you're doing great, and you're already making progress in a pretty short period of time. 

Don't get discouraged if it still takes a little while for him to allow touching, or if he regresses a little bit before he gets better. It's hard for animals to forget fear, especially an animal that has a strong sense of self-preservation to begin with. 

For something else fun to do, some targeting exercises might work, and it might be easier to teach him to touch a target that allows him to keep a bigger "personal space bubble" at first. It might help him get over the hump of "one step forward/two steps back" since you could increase the time he needs to touch the target to get his click.


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## george the mule

Hi All!



Mulefeather said:


> Isn't it awesome when you see that "lightbulb" moment!


Just what I was about to say, Mulefeather!

"The longest journey begins with a single step."

Good Job Pistol and Mom! 

ByeBye! Steve


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## Hesalittlepistol

Thank you Mulefeather and George! My latest report comes after I brought the milk crate in his stall to sit, no treats, and to see what would happen (half hour ago). As I would have predicted, ears up, eyes bright, and he starts inching towards me. No C/R. He took a bunch of baby steps around me trying to find the magic spot for a click, and eventually backed up and looked at me with a little confusion and a fair amount of irritation. You both may tell me I can't bring the milk crate in any more unless I have the clicker and treats. At what point do I know whether the little monkey believes he has ME well trained - he knows how to get treats and doesn't get caught. What incentive does he have to allow me to touch him?
I will try targeting again - I tried the other day with a lunge whip and the lash tied up. He touched it a few times and got a C/R, but then refused to touch it any more and if I tried to bring it close to his nose he simply backed up. Maybe tonight we'll do better now that he seems to be grasping C/R.


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## Mulefeather

A good book for you to read (and it's available on Kindle through Amazon) would be Karen Pryor's "Reaching The Animal Mind". She has a lot of examples of different concepts surrounding clicker training that might help you - you just experienced an "extinction" reaction with the milk crate! That frustration when he's trying what he knows works, but not getting anywhere, so in effect he throws a bit of a hissy fit. You can see the same thing happen when a person goes to use a machine that suddenly gives them trouble (computers, anyone?). 

With targeting and equines, I find that the bigger the target the better. I used to use a foam football on the end of a dowel rod for the minis I worked with because it's easy to touch and easy to see, and most horses don't associate it with a crop or whip (especially animals that may have been mistreated with one). I got mine at the dollar store.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Being old fashioned I just ordered it in paperback. And thank you. I guess I may not be doing targeting tonight, as I don't have time to go to the dollar store and I don't have a foam football lying around. I was going to try an old dog toy, but it's not very big.


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## Mulefeather

No shopping trips needed, just use your imagination and what you have on hand  As long as the tool fits the job and is safe to use, the sky's the limit.


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## george the mule

Hi Li'Pistol!

For a target, just fasten something Pistol-nose-sized, and brightly colored to the end of a short stick. A tennis ball with a stick-sized hole cut in it would work just fine. I use a toy highway cone about 8 inches tall, don't remember where I got it.
And most important, have fun!

ByeBye! Steve


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## blueriver

Congrats on the progress ... Keep it up!! You did good!!


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## Hesalittlepistol

NOW we're having fun! The local junk store yielded some foam toys and some traffic cones. This morning was a foam toy hanging from the lunge line. I had a do a few C/R asking him to come towards me, because the contraption is, well, eye catching. He did get touching it fairly soon, I think. What was funny - he gave me several looks like 'mother you can't really mean this' - he decided he'd rather take a few baby steps towards me than to touch the toy. No clicks. He backed right up and put his nose on the toy! I was moving it a little bit - he had to stretch his neck and then even step forward, then I held it by his shoulder so he had to turn his head. 5 stars! So. Next step. Just reinforce this tonight? Start to add verbal as in saying touch? Moving it around more? This is just the bees knees (lol)!


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## Hesalittlepistol

More progress! He's been moving around the stall, and he reverses direction pretty well. Tracking left is much easier than tracking right, so I've been holding the target closer to him when we're tracking right to reduce the anxiety. And this morning..... drum roll.....I let him loose in the aisle for the first time. I just sat for a bit and let him nose around, and then I held out the target. And I got a touch! I led him up the aisle in short distances for the C/R, but my reverse was sloppy and I lost him when I tried to change direction. However, he decided that 'home base' was looking like a good idea and he went back into his stall. I followed him in and did a few more easy targets tracking left to end on a good and hopefully low anxiety note. I think I'm going to let that sink in for a bit, and not try it again until Tuesday. I'll work on tracking both directions and get him more comfortable with tracking right. The Karen Pryor book Reaching the Animal Mind arrived the other day - GREAT recommendation Mulefeather. I confess the other day I was feeling a little discouraged, in spite of his fabulous progress. But I think I've come to grips with the fact this really is going to take 6 months, and I need to be less focused on the destination and enjoy the heck out of the journey. This morning when I was cleaning his stall he wanted to give me a kiss but didn't quite have the courage. There has always been the stall door between us, so I was really happy he even considered it. And no, he didn't get a cookie for thinking about giving me a kiss and not delivering on the promise!


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## Hesalittlepistol

I wasn't going to do the aisle training today but changed my mind. He's too smart and too quick to pick things up. We have a long road ahead of just doing touch and reward and I need to keep it fresh and fun for him. So I added 2 things - 1 - trying to have him leave the stall when I 'allowed' him to by leading him out with the target - needs work! The other was a happy discovery which was improving our change of direction when he reaches the end of the aisle. He offered a few amazing turn on the forehands that I tried to capture with multiple clicks, and a few just really nice turning around to face the other direction - again multiple clicks. I haven't added any voice cues yet and I'm trying to give signals with my body position. Based on his upright ears and bright eyes, I think he's having fun. So am I!!!


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## Mulefeather

I'm so happy you are both having fun. Having a pleasant experience with a human is probably a novel experience for Pistol! I'm glad you're working on keeping him constantly engaged and figuring things out, that will go a long way to ensure that he stays interested and willing to engage. I've found that pony/mini mules seem to get a double-dose of intelligence and it's almost "genius" syndrome with them sometimes. 

This thread is making me yearn for another project myself- I got offered a pony mule for free over the weekend but sadly I'm not in a position to take him.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Mulefeather I think you should take the pony mule! I know he'd have a great home with you. And I've had 2 steps forward and one back, or maybe the other way around. Yesterday aisle training sort of disintegrated. I've been rewarding different things he's been doing - his reverse direction in the aisle for example - but I haven't been using any verbal cues yet. He ended up in a state of confusion by offering things I'd been rewarding but at the wrong time so he wasn't rewarded. The ears go back and wide, and he sort of turns his head to think, but he wasn't making sense of it, so I ended the session early. I decided I absolutely need to add verbal cues. I thought starting with kiss would be a good one, because he offers it at fairly predictable times, and it should be easy. Famous last words. When I added the click for the kiss he acted afraid and retreated and has been very reluctant to offer the kiss again. I'm at a bit of a loss, because I thought we had the click and reward pretty well established, and he's been offering a kiss and getting a cookie almost from day 1. Also I think yesterday I noticed he may not be gelded. He's low to the ground so it's hard to be sure. The rescue farm had sent me an email a few weeks back saying he may not have been gelded, as they thought.


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## Zexious

Where are the pictures?


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## Mulefeather

It sounds like he’s getting frustrated and perhaps a little confused. It might just be that there’s too much, too soon, and now he’s not sure what will and what won’t earn him his clicks so he defaults to feeling uneasy. It’s exciting to progress but I think you really need to start pairing the behaviors with clear verbal or physical cues, otherwise he’s going to be offering you all sorts of behaviors at random and expecting rewards. When those rewards don’t come, he’s going to get upset and frustrated. Don’t worry too much about him backsliding, it’s normal when the rules start to change in the “game” you are playing. It’s called Extinction behavior and many species do it – basically, it’s throwing a bit of a hissy fit because what he knows isn’t working now.

I’d just work on not doing too much at once, and making sure things are clear and consistent. It might help you to write down what you are working on each day and make yourself a small goal to shoot for. Say, have him touch your hand or a target for 1 second, then 3, then 5, until you hit 10 seconds, for example. It’s exciting to want to capture behaviors he’s offering at random, but for now being consistent is going to help him build trust.

And I wish I could take the pony mule I was offered! Sadly right now I’m not in a position to do that. I’m going to be keeping my eyes peeled for a donkey or mule for driving in the next few months, so we’ll see where that takes me.


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## Corporal

wbwks said:


> He needs to depend on you for everything, including feed and water. In this way he doesn't have a choice but to look forward to your visits.


This is how I have trained my horses so that I never have to chase them in pasture, and how I get them to come to ME.
It isn't violent, and it becomes a habit. 
Please learn what hay to feed to your mule bc alfalfa is too rich. Some kind of grass hay is best, and you can feed oat straw. Better that your mule lose a little weight if he/she is a bit of harder keeper than to founder him/her. ALWAYS make your mule come to YOU for feeding, or you are training that you will wait on him hand and foot. When he looks for you for dinner, and is always approaching you, THEN you can start touching him. You don't need to put your hand out towards them tentatively. You CAN touch them on the neck and make THAT part of the feeding, too.
This training also works on cats. I know bc I have done it.


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## anndankev

Hesalittlepistol said:


> ... in a state of confusion by offering things I'd been rewarding but at the wrong time so he wasn't rewarded. The ears go back and wide, and he sort of turns his head to think, but he wasn't making sense of it, ...



Uh-oh.

Now I would love to have one even more.

How endearing.


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## Sherilee

I brought home two mini donkey rescues around the same age as yours last year. They had not been touched/worked with at all. We have to corner them to catch them and then we just kill them with kindness, brushing, petting, talking softly to them. Then put them back out. We still have to chase them to catch them but they are getting much easier to catch.


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## george the mule

Hi Pistols Mom!

No Worries; as Mulefeather says, just too much too soon. Nothing unexpected.
When you notice that lost look, just go back to something he has down pat, and do that for awhile. Finish with a nice jackpot, and quit for the day.
Next time start with the solid behavior, and work back to just before where the confusion set in. Jackpot and quit. Maybe do this twice until everything is solid before approaching something new.
Keep things simple, keep things fun.

Steve


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## george the mule

Hi Again!

Another thing that might be beneficial would to visit Pistol with a different treat, maybe an apple. Leave the clicker in your pocket, and just hang out and share the apple with him. This builds "relationship" w/o the stress of teacher/student interactions. Steve


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## george the mule

Hi Again, Again 

I don't recall seeing this mentioned, but:

Talk to the boy. Soft and easy like you would talk to a puppy or infant. Nothing special, just make happy encouraging sounds to get him to associate the sound of your voice with the "good things" in life.

ByeBye! Steve


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## Hesalittlepistol

I need to say a very sincere thank you to everyone who has posted here. I confess I've been a bit discouraged lately and haven't posted any updates. Then I check in and have tons of inputs!! So thanks to everyone. I wish I had more accomplishments to report. Pistol has been home 4 weeks yesterday. I feel my progress in this 4 weeks has been minimal. He does touch a target, but I have to toss him the treat, and target work doesn't seem to increase his confidence in humans. He will take a treat from my hand 2x/day, during the 'kiss for a treat' times. My horse is in the barn during both of those times. Pistol will not take a treat from my hand otherwise, so I have not been successful in adding verbal cues. I had been spending time sitting on a milk crate in his stall reading, I haven't done that recently and may start again. And George the Mule - I do talk to him, and tell him he's handsome and I love him. It feels like it falls on deaf ears. I'm not trying to be negative, I'm just not sure what I'm doing is making any difference. Mulefeather, I hear you loud and clear that if his 3 or 4 year reality was a horrible experience, as I guess it must have been, then 4 weeks is a drop in the bucket. I wish I could see some indication from him that he's starting to get a glimmer of light. Sorry this is so negative.


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## george the mule

Hi!

Well, it sure sounds like you are doing the right things. I'm sure someome will "yell" at me, but here are a couple unconventional things you might try:
Find a treat/food Pistol _really_ likes, and try to get him to take it from your hand. Watch your fingers.
George likes food, but his particular favorites are apples, carrots, slices of bread, raw corn-on-the-cob, and candy. Hard peppermints like you get at a restaurant are probably close to the top of the list. I buy 'em at Walgreens; "Starlight Mints", and the chocolate ones are particularly popular.
Equine seem to learn from observation. Try grooming your horse in front of Pistols stall, where he can watch. Be lavish with treats and affection so that it is obvious Mr. Horse is enjoying himself.
Introduce them, and if they seem congenial, maybe let them hang out together in a paddock or something. Just be sure there is no way for the horse to trap Pistol in a corner, and be ready to intercede if things go badly.
Clicker, or just hand over a couple of treats, and then stand with your back to Pistol, maybe looking out of the stall window or something. Assume a kind of slumped, submissive posture, and see if he won't come up to you. It's really hard, but don't keep sneaking a peek to see if he is moving.
Ummmm, try singing to him. My equine all enjoy this, and they have individual tastes, but they mostly like melodic and kind of mournful songs like Red River Valley, Your Cheating Heart, Cryin' Time, lots more. Of course these are also songs I like, so just experiment. You'll get both ears, and sometimes even a nod when you hit on a good one. Try this on your horse to get a better idea of what responses you can expect.
And cut your sessions short before discouragement sets in. Go do something else, and come back to it later.
ByeBye! Steve


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## Mulefeather

I think what you are feeling is normal and natural. You want so badly for this little guy to come around and trust you when you are offering. A case like this would be a big challenge for me, and so I really commend you for tackling it. It's okay to take a break and maybe work on something else for a while, too, and just let him digest what he knows. 

It's hard to work with an animal that you feel doesn't want to be around you. Just remember it's not about you or what you are/are not doing. He is a creature whose very being is rooted in self-preservation, and he may not be mentally ready to take the risk of trusting a human. 

Sadly, abuse and poor handling are difficult obstacles to overcome with intelligent critters, but it can be done. You are doing fine, and you are right that 4 weeks is a drop in the bucket. It might help you to start getting in touch with other people who work specifically with mules and donkeys, or perhaps have someone video your sessions with him to get some pointers.


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## george the mule

Hi Again!

Aah, another one; Maybe just feed Pistol, and don't acknowledge him otherwise for a day or a week. Watch for him to start tracking your movements and/or present himself at the stall window when he sees you coming. Kinda put the ball in his court so to speak. Steve


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## Hesalittlepistol

THANK YOU George the mule and Mulefeather, sorry to whine. I so appreciate your support. In no particular order - I added a set a cross ties outside Pistol's stall probably 3 weeks ago. Aspin gets groomed (and treat -ed copiously) daily. I'm afraid my singing wouldn't soothe, calm, or otherwise generate a bonding feeling with any animal (lol). Might keep coyotes away!! lol. If I left Pistol alone except for cleaning his stall and feed and water he would have no issue with it. He's probably make more noise, but I don't think he would be any more interested in me. I actually just tried going back to the beginning. I put my milk crate in the middle of the stall - instead of discretely on the side - and crooned over him for a little while. When you're that close to him and those ears are straight up and those gorgeous eyes are wide open and fixed on you and every so often those little nostrils will flair and take you in - wow. When the time comes when I can get him cleaned up and outside so I know a flash won't go off I'll take pictures. He's a knock out. Anyway, I sat and crooned, and then I brought in some carrots. His only requirement was take the carrot out of my hand. He can reach and lean in, but he was taking the carrots and not snatching them, and I did get one finger stroke on his nose. At this point I don't care if every time I go into his stall he nags for treats, at least he will be acknowledging me and interacting with me. I may be able to get a brush on him this way. Since I was told when I first started this you can't train a mule with treats I expect some negative responses. But I think I need to stop trying to train him, and just try to make friends with him.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Update. Pistol has been home 5 weeks yesterday, and 1 week and 1 day since we put down the clicker. I've been spending lots of time sitting in his stall on a milk crate, hand feeding him carrots or just sitting with him. As of yesterday, I'm able to hold my hand up in front of his face, so he knows I intend to touch his face, and he will let me. Not saying he doesn't back up a little, but he's letting me touch him. This morning I made the touch a slow stroke down his nose, and if he pulled away before I finished my slow stroke he didn't get his carrot. I'm going to continue that, make the stroke even slower, and maybe tweak his halter a little - and let him run backwards, follow that with an easy one (kiss for a carrot). When he gets scared sometimes he'll run backwards but then come right back. I'd like to think he's showing Pistol old thought process immediately followed by Pistol new thought process. Hopefully next week's report will have continued progress.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Pistol has been home 6 weeks yesterday. Hello George the mule, thanks for inquiring about him in the other thread. I wish I thought we would get to a 'tipping point' and he would suddenly smother me with neediness, but alas, I don't. He has an extremely small envelope, and you don't 'push' his envelope, you gently nudge it. And then you stand back and celebrate that you've put a wrinkle in it. 

Don't know if I'm anthropomorphizing (is that the right word) I think he arrived here beyond stressed and emotionally exhausted. Yesterday I turned him loose in the aisle - put fencing at both ends of the barn so he can see outside and move around a bit. I spent some time with him just moving around him - if he's eating hay in the aisle I can walk past him, he doesn't have to move, type of thing. Last night feeding carrots was fantastic - carrots in the left hand, or carrots in the right hand, or stretch my arm way out to the side - didn't faze him at all. This is BIG!! And I can scratch my nose when I'm sitting in his stall and usually I don't get a reaction - no head jerking up, eye whites, increased respiration, etc. He seemed as though he was looking at me differently last night. 

Then today I had a woman come by who will be taking care of Pistol and Aspin (my horse) in July when I go on vacation (first time in - ? - 8 - 10 years!!! COOL!!). She is awesome, and I thought he did really well with her. After she left I put up the gate at the end of the aisle and opened his stall door. He wouldn't leave his stall. Couldn't coax him out with treats. Put my milk crate in the stall, leaving the stall door open, and fed carrots. He really seemed drained. I explained wild horses couldn't pull me away from him, he wasn't moving again, this woman was not his new owner, as nice as she is. When I finished carrots I put the milk crate in the aisle and he came out of his stall. I left him eating hay in the aisle. 

I think it'll be quite a while yet before I can lead him and groom him, but there's no doubt at all he's bonding to me. When I think about the first time he came towards me on my milk crate - it was tiny little steps almost sideways - 'I think I can go to her but I'm not sure' - written all over him - and yesterday when he came to me in the aisle - head relaxed, ears up, a beautiful little 4 beat walk straight to me. I want to pick him up and cuddle him!

Sorry this was long.


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## Mulefeather

You're making progress! Don't ever doubt that. He seems to be the typical mule - inching cautiously towards a "new" realization - that not all people are going to chase or hurt him.


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## Hesalittlepistol

7 weeks yesterday. Major breakthrough this week. I can pet his face, groom his face, and he likes it. Huge. This morning I was working on stroking his forehead. If you get close to his eyes he'll squint, turn his head - this is the improved response, prior response was rapid backup with anxious face. I'm working on the 'upward' motion on his forehead - the hair goes up above the cowlick, which is the way the brush will go, but that motion of hands above his eyes is very troublesome. Also this morning - having my fingertips still on his muzzle and asking for a kiss at the same time. That's 'double' human contact, and that's big too. He enjoys my touch - sometimes if I pull my hand away a little he'll push his face or his muzzle back under my hand. I was exploring his muzzle with my finger tips this morning - tracing his nostrils, around his lips.... I'm writing this very matter of fact but I've been euphoric these past few days. I'm hoping things will start to come faster now.


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## george the mule

Hi Pistol's Mom!

Oh, Yea!

Will he let you handle his ears? This is DELUXE for George; outside and in, as far as you can reach. "Mmmmm, MonkeyFingers :grin:"

Steve (and George . . . )


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## Hesalittlepistol

OMG I love that picture Steve!! I hope you have that framed somewhere. No, we definitely don't have ears yet. Last night I was trying to stroke the face brush under his chin, and he was pinning his ears and biting at the brush. I guess that's a little too similar to someone trying to grab his halter and attach a rope. We have to get forehead first - I'm trying to have him let me pick stray shavings off his forehead. Slow and steady does it....


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## Hesalittlepistol

Another to George the Mule - George appears to be very 'donkey' appearing, yet your ear scratch picture shows he has mane like a horse. Pistol looks like a horse (OK mini horse) with large ears, but he has a mane like a donkey. Just a comment. Guess I never noticed it could be either way.


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## Saddlebag

Pistol, he needs to get outside and get some bug/mosquito bites. Itchy spots getting scratched is a good way to win an animal over.


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## george the mule

Hi Li'l Pistol, All!



Hesalittlepistol said:


> Another to George the Mule - George appears to be very 'donkey' appearing, yet your ear scratch picture shows he has mane like a horse. Pistol looks like a horse (OK mini horse) with large ears, but he has a mane like a donkey. Just a comment. Guess I never noticed it could be either way.


Some mules are more horselike, some more donkey. George is out of a Missouri Foxtrotter, and a 15h mammoth jack, or so I was told. He does have the gait, but it must be more work to do it, 'cause he won't stay on it for very long.

George came out smaller than his pa, and decidedly donkey-like in appearance, and build. And he has donkey feet.

But Georgie got more than just his good looks from his donkey daddy, I can tell you that ;-)


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## Mulefeather

George is right, some mules wind up a little more "horse" and some wind up a little more "donkey". Take for example this handsome monster I had the pleasure of owning:










This was my 16hh Belgian draft mule, Buddy. I suspect his mother may have been only half-draft, as he wasn't as big as some of the other Belgian mules you see, but his dad DEFINITELY had to have been a Mammoth jack.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Hi Mulefeather, Buddy is one handsome guy! And hi to all, and I just had a lunge line attached to Pistol in the stall. I wish I could go back to the beginning of my equine experiences and start all over using what I've learned about training and handling. It was the least dramatic thing you can imagine. I don't know how a mule reacts to learning to be tied - he's been pulling out of my hand when I had a finger over his noseband, so he's used to doing that. We had a VERY minor amount of pulling, mostly when I was trying to get him close enough to get the lunge line off. The biggest concern seemed to be when he retreated to the far side of the stall and saw this long thing attached to him. When he had settled down to eat hay (with the line on him), I decided to end to session and took it off. So that will be today's work and as long as it takes to get the line on him easily and off easily. 8 weeks tomorrow!! And darn it I'm going to get some pictures of him and get them posted. He's way too handsome (cute?) for just me to enjoy.


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## george the mule

Hi Li'l Pistol, Mulefeather!



Hesalittlepistol said:


> Hi Mulefeather, Buddy is one handsome guy! And hi to all, and I just had a lunge line attached to Pistol in the stall. I wish I could go back to the beginning of my equine experiences and start all over using what I've learned about training and handling.


Yep. Learning to work with George really made me rethink my relationship with the horses, and the resulting realignment has made a huge difference in the quality of our interactions. All of 'em, from moving them around in the pasture, to dealing with challenges out on the trail.

And I don't think this is something you can be "taught", at least not by another human, you just have to learn it "on the job".

Mulefeather, I almost adopted a Belgian Mule draft team that was otherwise destined for a one way trip to Mexico :-(

Beautiful, sane, mature (owner said "old"; mid 20s isn't old for a mule) animals, a brother and sister. Both were trained for driving and saddle. The molly was 17h and probably 1500lb, and the john was 17.2h and even stockier. They both looked like Buddy.

They did find a good home at a local ranch/driving school, which was undoubtedly for the best, as I really didn't have the resources to provide for them. But I would have taken them home rather than seeing them go for dog food 

Fotos of that Pistol would be great!

ByeBye! Steve


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## Mulefeather

George – Buddy was actually in a somewhat similar situation when I got him. He’d actually belonged to a man I went to technical school with, who then years later became ill with cancer and could no longer work. He was a nice man, but I think his pride got in the way and he just stopped paying Buddy’s board at the stable he’d been at for five years. The stable owners waited as long as they could but by the time 6 months rolled up, they were losing money and decided to sell him. It was a choice between me and a man who bought and sold horses. When I went to go see him, for some reason he just reminded me so much of my old gelding, with just the gentlest expression I’d ever seen, that I picked up his muzzle in my hands and kissed him on the nose. I remember thinking “Why did I just do that?” about 5 minutes afterwards. The lady who ran the stable later told me that Buddy’s fate was literally sealed with that kiss – she wanted him to go to someone who would love him rather than just any old place. 

I’m hoping one day that lightening will strike twice, and I’ll get another one similar to him in personality! I’m glad the team you looked at found a great home – maybe one day I’ll get a wild hair again and venture out into Amish country (I live about 30 minutes from Lancaster, PA and about an hour south of New Holland) and try to find another one. I’m not a huge fan of the Amish so it’s a toss-up between getting what I want and having to deal with doing business with the Old Order again, I got a taste of that back when I was working for Tractor Supply years back.


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## TessaMay

I haven't checked in on this thread for a while. So glad to hear ou guys are making great progress! Sounds like you are both learning a lot and that he is really starting to rethink his human relationships since you have shown him that you are different from what he's always known. So good to see 

I can't wait for pictures of the little long-ear! 

I like to think our girl has more of the horsie look, though she definitely got the donkey feet! 

This isn't a very good picture, since it's about 2 weeks after we rescued her. She's got overgrown feet, lice, a wormy belly and is quite dirty and dull looking, but still cute in my opinion :lol: I need to get some recent pictures of her...


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## Hesalittlepistol

A few steps backward. In working with him to take the lead rope off and on, he pulled away from me. That was a few days ago. That took a day to 'repair', as he would just stand in the corner and look at me. I just tried again this morning, but I didn't have a good hold on the lead rope and he fought like crazy and got away from me before I got the rope on. Its that 2 hands in his face thing, and it doesn't even matter if one hand is holding a treat. So, this will take another day to get him to come back to me. What do you all think - should I continue to try to attach a lead rope to him against his will, or should I wait until he comes to terms with whatever demons are chasing him? I have to say its pretty neat now to have him hold his head still to be petted, and to see him obviously enjoying it. Maybe in another month I could get him past this. The problem is that whenever I really press the issue - hold the halter and try to slowly bring a treat towards him - he flips. I'd like to think if I could pet him with the lead rope on we'd get over this faster. What do you all think?


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## george the mule

Hi Pistol's Mom!

I'm unclear about what is going on. He has a halter on, and you are just trying to attach the lead? He will let you put the halter on/off?
Have you tried putting the halter on with the lead already attached? How about with a different lead, or even a length of baling string?
Have you tried to lead him just holding the halter? Have you tried it with the lead or a string simply looped around his neck?
Please refresh my memory; he is in a stall? Does he have access to an outside run or paddock? Do you get the same refusal if he is outside the stall?
Is it possible he is afraid of the lead it's self, or do you think he is associating the lead/halter with being forced to do something? Maybe make a real short lead (cut an old dog leash to where it just hits the ground with his head held normally), and let him drag it around for awhile?
I can generally direct my critters by pointing them in the right direction, and urging them to move with a pat on the butt. Have you tried this; what happened? Try setting out a bucket with a handful of feed in it, and aiming him at it. "Go get it, Pistol." Once he gets his nose on the feed, try picking up the bucket and see if he will follow it around. Maybe see if he will follow a carrot or apple (cliché, I know, but probably for a reason , and work that into being led from the halter?
I think that once you get a handle on what exactly is causing the refusal, you can probably clicker past it fairly easily.
Is there any way for you to turn him out, preferably with other animals? They do learn by observation, perhaps if he has a chance to watch you halter and lead somebody else, especially a pasture buddy, it might help.
One other thing you might try; you can groom him, yes? He likes it? Maybe start in with the brush, and when you get to his favorite area (It's Georgies butt. All of mine like a good butt-scratch tho, and as, um, _intimate_ as you want to get. Up under their tail too.), stop and ask him to move a step or two, and resume. You can probably work that into being led as well.

ByeBye! Steve


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## Mulefeather

A drag rope is a great idea - and yes, you need to find out at what point the resistance begins. He may associate the lead rope with punishment, or being forced/made to do something, and having it around all the time will take it from "Oh god here comes that scary thing again" to something he's just got to learn to live with for a while. It's a technique they use on wild horses/burros when they are adopted as it makes them easier to catch. 

Also, it may be easier to ask him to move sideways with you rather than forward when the time comes for leading. He's probably learned to set back against a forward, dragging movement, so try something different.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Thank you George the Mule and Mulefeather! As a refresh, this is where we are. He came with a halter. It's been on him the whole him. He's in a stall. I don't have a stall run in type set up - I have a barn and separate turn outs. I can only groom his face, that's the only place I can touch. He faces me at all times. If I tried to groom his butt I would get kicked - I got kicked the first day and have since learned how not to get kicked. Aspin the horse gets groomed every night right outside Pistol's stall (and gets lots of treats). I have Pistol's lead rope hanging over the side of the stall door, so it's 'in his face', and hopefully he's used to seeing it.
Yesterday I was having him touch the lead rope for a carrot. He did very well, and then, when I stroked the lead rope over his muzzle, he began to refuse to come to me. You're both right, I don't know where the refusal is coming from. I assume it's a bad association, that explains all the other behavior. I have held the halter - not sure whether he'll allow it today, and asked very gentle tugs and feel he understands and responds to pressure. In spite of his size, if you get hold of that halter and he flips - well, I'm just not strong enough to hold on. He doesn't just pull back, he's twisting and jumping. He's incredibly fast and agile.
I do like the idea of a drag rope. I think I may need to back up and stop even attempting to put something different in his face for today, he needs to chill out. I noticed we have a full moon. Probably not a good time to be trying something like this. I'll come up with a safe drag rope today for when he's a little calmer.


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## Saddlebag

Why do you think he's suffering from bad associations? Maybe the little devil has just got your number and is outsmarting you at every turn. He's not a horse so you can't expect to train him up like a horse. I'd tie a rope around his back ankle and would start brushing. When he fires a shot, hold his foot up until he makes it clear he's uncomfortable. Let it down then groom him more. Lots of repetitions until he stops kicking.


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## Hesalittlepistol

Hi Saddlebag, I don't know why the bad associations, he's a rescue. Believe me I've wondered many times whether this was an 'act' on his part or not. I've come to the conclusions it's not. At least not all of it. Increased respiration, flaired nostrils, eye whites, diarrhea... he's be a pretty talented actor if he could do all this at will.
But I've re-attached the lunge line - as opposed to a drag line - I have it draped over the stall door so when I want to 'summon' him I pick up the line. He's going to live in it for a while, until we work through some of this. Yesterday was when I got it on, I didn't try to do much but calm him. This morning we've started on 'come' / leading / understanding pressure. He does eventually take steps forward in response to pressure, so we just need to reinforce it. I just held the line short and petted over his face and chin. I gave lots of treats, then let the line back out so he could retreat to the back of the stall, and then pulled him in again. Think we did it 3 or 4 times. At this point I think this thread is done, I can touch him, and going forward it's a training issue. I took some pictures a few days ago but the stall walls are dark, he's dark, pretty poor pictures. When I do get him outside and groomed up I'll post pictures, just so everyone knows the little brat does exist. Thanks a million to everyone to commented - whether I agreed with you or not I appreciated the input. Hopefully I'll stay sensible and leave him as Aspin - the - horse's barn buddy, and not try to housebreak him. NUTS about that little monster! Happy trails.
Marian


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## Mulefeather

Great to see all the progress you've made with Pistol! I do hope you'll update us and let us know how he progresses as you do more training. 

And now you know what all the rest of us long-ear fiends know, just how ADDICTIVE they are!


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## george the mule

Hi Marian and Pistol!

About the only other thing I can think of that you haven't tried would be to get Pistol out of that stall for awhile.

Is the horse, Aspin, turned out regularly? Do they seem congenial in the barn? If you can do so in a safe manner, i.e. no place for Aspin to trap Pistol, or for Pistol to duck under the fence and go exploring, I would start turning them out together.

It sounds like you have enough of a bond in place that Pistol will come up to you if you _have_ to catch him, and after a while, usually a short while, he will bond with your horse to the point where he follows her (?) lead anyway.

Maybe the change in scenery will improve his outlook on humans, maybe not, but he will be a lot happier in any event. After he gets used to freedom, just pick up where you left off, but at liberty in the pasture.

Don't worry if he doesn't come in at first, but don't feed him in the pasture, either; put his breakfast in his stall as usual. He will figure it out PDQ, and follow his new pasture pal on in.

Remember "Reward the Good, and Ignore the Bad". Just let him be a mule for awhile. Be there for him, but don't try to make him do anything, just reward him when he decides to do the "right" thing.

Hopefully a week or three of this approach will soften his attitude a little. And do keep us posted.

ByeBye! Steve


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## Hesalittlepistol

Hello George the Mule, Thanks for your comments, and I didn't want to leave that hanging. My fencing is electric white tape, except Aspin (him) pretty much knows the boundries and the fence isn't even currently working. In addition, the bottom strand is nice and high so Aspin can graze under it and keep the grass low. Pistol probably wouldn't even realize there was supposed to be a fence.
I think Aspin and Pistol are bonded - Aspin always acts likes he's biting at Pistol, but Pistol never moves away. I think it's one of those 'equine things'. I have a smaller turnout that is going to be Pistol's eventually, but it's pretty grown up with grass. He's only on hay, and if I were to just turn him out - even in Aspin's turnout, he'd founder, and I sure as heck don't want that. He's been on the lunge line 2 1/2 days now, and he is calming down, and we're getting back to where we were before the line went on, which is really super. And re rewarding the good, ignoring the bad, I absolutely love that mindset, and I think I do try to do that. He knows 'good boy', and I can train him things by saying that when he's even thinking along the right lines, and he picks it up.


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