# How to prevent so many being slaughtered....



## Lc Performance Horses (May 3, 2008)

Stop back yard breeding and breeding from substandard mares.
I am heading up a campaign at the moment here in the Uk, but it is a world wide re-education scheme, I am backed by the BHS and ILPH, HAPPA and some horse magazines. I lived in Tennessee for three years and was against the idea of stopping slaughter....why...because now they are shipped by transporters, some made for cattle and pigs that are not strong enough and do collapse, to meat packaging plants in Mexico where they have NO guidelines and to Canada. They are subject to no food, water nor veterinary treatment, theyare exhausted and weak and thats usually only half way through the journey. Over 100,000 horses in a year are shipped from england live throughout Europe to killing plants.
I am re-educating the owners of horses, foals may be cute but we dont need any more. People dont realise that by breeding you can cause a spread of disease be it sexual or not, the problems that the mare may have during and after pregnancy, and the deformities that may occur in the foal in the womb. The costs are tremendous. Not only to your pocket but also to the foals life.
The stopping of American...guidelined...killing plants has flooded the sanctuaries throughout the states and they are at bursting point. (I know this as my friend has one) Horses are now being abandoned and left to die of starvation and dehydration. Or they go to the market and end up travelling thousands of miles in a transporter to their death.
Before people think of breeding, they need to consider what they want the foal for, what happens if they cant afford it, far too many breeders are selling of real good papered stock because they are over stocked...why should anyone pay anything for a substandard animal in this case, get one with papers cheaper or for the same price.
We all love foals, they are cute, I was an established breeder of Anglo Arabs, Arabs, Welsh Section A's and Sports horses up to a fe years ago, but now...no way, we have too many. 
Unless you have an outstanding mare that is registered then there is no point, your feeding the rest of the horse meat eating world and ensuring that the killing plants still have work.
The only way is to limit breeding, if we dont supply...there will be no demand. Leave it to the professionals, ok they price might go up on buying a horse, but Id rather pay that than my horses pay with such a savage death.
Wouldnt you!

If anyone has any other views and ideas, could you e-mail me at [email protected] also I sure would appreciate the support.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I would love to see some sort of stallion grading done; one mare can only have one foal per year, but one stallion can sire literally hundreds. 
If we implemented some sort of stallion grading where if your stallion passes, you can keep it a stallion, and if it doesn't it gets gelded, I think this would help curb those backyard breeders. 
Stud fees for quality stallions are high for a reason; if you can't affoard them, you shouldn't be breeding.
Anyways, my dream is totally unreachable, but hey.. I'm allowed to dream, right?


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

this doesn't pertain to horses, but i think something like this would be greatly beneficial. It's similar to what JDI said what to do.

German Shepherds that are born/raised in Germany, to my knowledge has to participate in an activity called Schutzhund. There are 3 levels to it. If they pass (i believe just any level) they are granted to be part of Germany's breeding program. This is mainly to see if the dogs live up to their breeds. Insuring that only the best of best are able to reproduce and keep the strong bloodlines going.
(if anyone is interested in reading more aboutt.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzhund)

I think something along those lines for horses would be great. It could be tests on their personality, conformation, and how they perform. It would stuff BYB and people studding out fugly stallions.


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## Lc Performance Horses (May 3, 2008)

Some form of liscenciing would be ideal, vet has to grade stud before he can be a registered stallion at stud, and mare has to be graded and if passed she gets a temp liscence for that seasons breeding would be a good idea. But, we would still get people slipping through the net, should be a high fine for a penalty if caught, that sort of thing would work. Plus it would put up the cost of breeding and people would think twice.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Lc Performance Horses said:


> Some form of liscenciing would be ideal, vet has to grade stud before he can be a registered stallion at stud, and mare has to be graded and if passed she gets a temp liscence for that seasons breeding would be a good idea. But, we would still get people slipping through the net, should be a high fine for a penalty if caught, that sort of thing would work. Plus it would put up the cost of breeding and people would think twice.


Exactly. I for one am a goodie-two-shoes and would NOT want to get caught...


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## Lc Performance Horses (May 3, 2008)

Me too hun, also i wouldnt want to pay out any hard earned money lol. Its better to go the legal route and do it properly!


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## tim (Dec 31, 2007)

Why has this forum turned into a picket line?


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I think we're just discussing stuff, Tim.   
But yeah, I agree. People need to stop breeding to ugly stallions...they're better off gelded.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

tim said:


> Why has this forum turned into a picket line?


 :lol: I don't think so, Tim! The over-breeding issue effects all of us, it would be great to find a solution


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## Lc Performance Horses (May 3, 2008)

Unless things like this are discussed, then people will continue to breed and fill up the kill trucks. It only takes one good idea to be put forwards and that could be part of the solution we need. Its no use being blinkered to the horrors, saying we hate people who slaughter and abuse horses if we are not prepared to look at the bigger picture. These horses would not be abused and slaughtered if people didnt keep on breeding them and them ending up in these situations due to it being sooo easy to aquire a horse cheap. Even though it would take years to begin to get it under control, it would be a start. Its not a picket line, its more to do with finding a solution to help stopping thousands of unwanted horses being sent to slaughter for a very small limited market. We have hunters, racers, alsorts of comp horses sent for slaughter, nothing wrong with them, not just the unregistered and backyard bred animals. If things are left the way they are now, it will continue to grow and the amounts will increase that are uneccesarily sent to their cruel death. So as opposed to picket line, no its got to be more publicised to help bring a reduction to this happening. I would most certainly not, though a few years ago was an established breeder, breed horses again. There are far too many sat in sanctuaries and going to auction that can be rescued and brought back, then used for comp and riding. 
In England alone we send 100,000 horses a year to killplants in europe, most of these perfectly healthy happy horses. If you could see your mate being killed in front of you, smell death and fear... how would you feel? There is no escape for them. Walk the death lane like a horse and then see for yourself. Ive done it, its awful but i could walk away, they dont have the choice so basically we are the ones who have to fight to help them get that choice.
Its very contreversial subject, but the more we push the better the results and thats how things get done. Its not just england and america, its everywhere and they need us as their voice. Look at what has happened to the horses in america now, they stopped slaughter at regulated killplants, now sanctuaries are over flowing and horses are being abandoned and left to die, or travelling thousands of miles to foriegn kill plants, no feed, no water, no veterinary treatment. Its regulations that are needed for both owners and business, stop supplying and the demand will drop.
(This is been typed without getting agro, Its my opinion and I have been around this all my life, seen things i wouldnt show my worst enemy, we all want whats best for our horses thats all.)
Sharon


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## kim_angel (Oct 16, 2007)

Clinton Anderson paid 28k for a stallion with amazing bloodlines..... as soon as he got him, he gelded him.

He said the horse made a good stallion but a great gelding. He also said that although the horse had fabulous bloodlines, he saw no need to breed him because there is already too many horses. He also said that he believes only horses that are the top of their breed should be bred.

I agree.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

That's really good.  Too many horses are being bred with bad bloodlines.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Something that was once said to me "Why breed and hope that you get what you want, instead of just buying a foal that's exactly what you want".


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

quit breeding. Why breed and hope you get what it is you want, when you can buy exactly what you want.


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## horsejumper123 (Jul 9, 2008)

I agree and disagree with you.
I think thats its riducles that people are breeding a mare right after she has a foal on her foal heat. 
And breeding them over and over so that they have at least 8 foals there whole life.
But i wouldnt blame backyard breeding for the whole problem.
Im not trying to sound rude or anyting. but im really sick of hearing, only top dollar horses should be allowed to have a foal.
IF that was true, then i wouldnt have my mare. And i wouldnt have a horse at all. im not going to pay 1200 dollars for a horse that i just want to ride. and im not experinced enough to take one from the shelter that has been treated god knows how. 
But i do plan on breeding my untop dollar super star horse. and i plan on teaching the foal, to ride and to jump. i do not plan on going into shows.
or selling her, or abanding her. 
why is it ok for top dollar horses to take the risk of all the stuff pregnacny comes with, but its not ok for just a trail horse to. 
Yes i know there are to many horses. but that also has to do with no one buying them right now because they cant affored to care for them. and to the fact that horse slaughter has been shut down in the US. So now there are to many. Even horses, not just foals. Untraned, untamed horses, that wont be fed and will die. isntead it should be done humanly. just because some people dont like the fact that a hrose is slaughter for food doesnt mean that we dont need it. and yes hores can do more things then other animals. but i dont think that means they have to suffer because someone cant feed them. 
And another thing that bugs me is how people think oh its fine for top dollar horses to breed. But since they want foals out of them they take a regular horse breed them at the same time. so we have a top dollar male and female breeding and a regular male and femal breeding. so they will have foals together. that way when the top dollar foal is born, and the regular foal is born they can kill the regular foal so that the top dollar foal can nurse of his mom, while they rebreed the top dollar foal. yea that seems real right. just because its a top dollar foal!


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## TxHorseMom (Mar 4, 2007)

Personally, I am tired of everyone blaming the "backyard breeder". What about the BIG breeders who breed hundreds of horses looking for "The One"!? I am a small time breeder. I breed 2-4 horses per year. (I have cut back) I generally have a waiting list for my babies. I have a rep in my community for breeding correct, level headed foals who are easily trained, but are affordable. I have yet to find ANY of my babies who arent with their original owner. Yet you'll have me believe that it is MY fault horses are going to slaughter? Sorry. I don't think so. I think that there are many factors and overbreeding is only one of them. 

Look at the racing industry. Thousands of foals are born looking for the next Derby winner. Or the PMU horses. Where a foal is only a byproduct from collecting pregnant mare urine.

Another factor IMO in all the idiots out there who think they can train horses and because they can't they ruin horses. (both mentally and physicaly) Then theres those who train too early and ruin a horse due to overuse on a young horses body.

Yes, there will always be idiots who breed a terrible mare to a worse stallion. But just screaming at them to "JUST STOP BREEDING" will get you nowhere. I know I wouldn't listen to you. Call me a horrible person, but I don't think that only high dollar horses should be bred. If that was the case, most of you wouldn't be owning one. It would turn back to being a sport only for "Kings". Personally, I'm glad I have mine.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> I would love to see some sort of stallion grading done;


There is an evaluation system for Icelandic horses. Of course it's not legally binding, they still can't stop substandard horses from being bred but I think it does help. It allows breeding horses to be compared easily and it's useful for buying a horse too. If you're a member of a breed organization why not suggest they implement a grading system?


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## wildhorsemoon (May 10, 2008)

*Thanks*

I so appreciate you starting this thread, I think any ideas are welcome that will end the excess of horses. I have a nice mare, but will never breed her for this reason. The same as all my rescue dogs are fixed. We are killing far too many innocent animals all due to human ignorance.


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## Kincsem (Oct 27, 2008)

The high stud fee stallions are not always the best stallions nor are the highest priced mares always the best. The highest priced yearlings or 2 year olds sometimes are flops and the offspring of the less famous turn out better. The Green Monkey sold for $16 million dollars and never won a race. After doing lots of research I believe that you should not judge a stallion by his stud fee or a horse by their purchase price. Some people with lots of money do not know a good horse and there are things wrong with some horses like fragile bones which can only be seen by using a bone density scan just like they do for people who may have osteosporosis. According to AP thousands of race horses have been euthanized with fractures. The filly Eight Belles who was euthanized after the Kentucky Derby with 2 fractures was sired by a horse who fractured his leg and was retired to stud and his stud fee is $150,000.


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## kenda (Oct 10, 2008)

I support the idea of a stallion grading system. I'm not saying that every male horse should be subjected to a test and then gelded if they don't pass. However, I believe that if a stallion could have some kind of grading done that certifies him with his breed registry or whatever, that could be added to his 'resume' and I believe that, over time, with increased education of the masses on this subject, such a certification would become a major factor in the potential breeders choice of stallion. I don't think it's right that a horse should be allowed to be registered just because his parents are. There are so many horses out there that the owner slaps on the registry initials on his sale/stud ad, and that gives the novice buyer/back yard breeder some falsified idea of grandeur for this horse.

You may think that this will drive the price up on horses. I kind of think that if you don't have the money to be able to save enough over a matter of months, then you probably don't have the money to support the horse for the rest of his life. Think about it. Let's say you're able to save $200 per month. After 5 months, you could buy a $1000 horse. If you're not able to put aside $150-$200 per month, what makes you think you're going to be able to afford a horse month-to-month?

I think one issue is the lack of knowledge for most novice horse owners. They may think, oh I've got a mare that I can't ride because of (injury/lack of training/etc.). I know! I'll breed her. So they look at ads find a stallion in the colour/breed they like, see the little $200-$500 price tag of this 'inferior' stallion and think, I can afford that much! Or "That's way cheaper than buying an adult horse!" And then nevermind the added costs of a pregnant mare for 11 months, or the added costs of a foal that they have to maintain for 2-3 years before they can even think about starting to train them to ride.

However, I think the bigger issue is those huge breeders that pump out foal after foal. There is no way that those foals are going to have the training they need to make them viable pleasure riding animals. It's just not possible for those breeders to give each individual foal the time. And then those foals don't sell because they aren't as well trained as the foal in the next pen over at the auction.

Anyway, that was long, and I'm not sure I really added to much to the argument but I felt the need to express my opinion. Thanks for reading if you managed to get through it.


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## TxHorseMom (Mar 4, 2007)

As many have said, those "big breeders" that pump out hundreds of horses a year are a big problem. (not the only problem, but a big part of it) But the thing is that those big breeders can afford to pay any fee that "standardizing" a stallion might be. And many of those stallions ARE breeding quality. The problem IMO is not just the quality of the stallion, but the QUANTITY of foals he has every year.

Which is the worse problem? My stallion who has 3-5 babies a year who might not be a national champion, but who's foals are sought after year after year? Or the "big name" stallion who has 50 foals a year hoping for that Kentucky Derby winner? (or breed show winner, or world halter winner, fill in the blank)


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

I think that breed associations need to stop allowing embryo transfers as well. I know that some dont allow it but it is weird to think that a mare can technically have more then one foal a year, you just have other mares that carry the embryo.

I dont fully agree with only "big time" horses being allowed to reproduce. My older mare is out of some no-name horses and she is the sweetest horse ever. I can pretty much do whatever I want with her, show, trail ride, she drives...etc... Basically if you only allowed big time horses I wouldnt have her right now. She is registered though but those are only papers in a sense. I dont plan on breeding her though either.

I do think that backyard breeders are a decent percent of the problem. Ever looked at adds on craigslist? it is really sad. The human race in general needs to step back and take a look at the problem they are creating. I wish people that starve their animals and make them live in manure up to their knees would get the same treatment back... "eye for an eye"...they would think twice about breeding, or not paying the vet to come geld their little stud.


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## kenda (Oct 10, 2008)

I don't think anybody is suggesting that only big time horses should be bred. I think what's being suggested is that stallions should be judged conformationally, and on it's personality etc., not on how big it's owners wallet is, before it should be allowed to breed. The idea being to cut back on "fugly" stallions reproducing "fugly" offspring that nobody wants. I'm not talking about horses that just aren't pretty, I'm talking about horses who's conformational faults will negatively affect it's life/chances of being bought by someone and which will be passed on to it's foals. Or horses who are judged unfit for riding because of some fault that's more than likely going to be passed on, and using those horses to breed.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

kim_angel said:


> Clinton Anderson paid 28k for a stallion with amazing bloodlines..... as soon as he got him, he gelded him.
> 
> He said the horse made a good stallion but a great gelding. He also said that although the horse had fabulous bloodlines, he saw no need to breed him because there is already too many horses. He also said that he believes only horses that are the top of their breed should be bred.
> 
> I agree.


Kudos to him  Its cool that he payed 28k for him not because he was a stallion with amazing bloodlines, but what he could be just as a "horse".


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