# Stiff/Disengaged Hindquarters



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

I was watching some videos of me riding Lena, and I noticed that she looks stiff or disengaged in her hindquarters. While loping, her front legs have big movement, but her back legs just drag along behind them.

Does anyone have any good exercises or ways to get her engaging her hindquarters?
I could post a video too, if that would be helpful.
Thanks!


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## Icyred (Mar 31, 2009)

First of all: LOTS OF BACKING! Back around the arena, various directions for a total of 5-10 minutes throughout your workout, not all at once, spread out. That will require her to get her bum moving and build up those muscles.  I would also suggest doing some pivots and sidepassing as well.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

> First of all: LOTS OF BACKING! Back around the arena, various directions for a total of 5-10 minutes throughout your workout, not all at once, spread out. That will require her to get her bum moving and build up those muscles.  I would also suggest doing some pivots and sidepassing as well.http://www.horseforum.com/western-riding/stiff-disengaged-hindquarters-74543/#ixzz19os5nvt1​


Thank you! We never do much of those three things, so that must be the problem! Also that she is quite lazy haha  Thank you so much!


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## Icyred (Mar 31, 2009)

horseluver50 said:


> Thank you! We never do much of those three things, so that must be the problem! Also that she is quite lazy haha  Thank you so much!


Oh no problem at all! I would also suggest if you are ever interested in some other exercises to look at renting/buying Mark Shaffer's Mechanics N Motion. He has a lot of great exercises and demonstrates them all.  I use them all the time on the gelding I started working with this summer and they have helped a lot!


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## Bandera (Jul 31, 2010)

video??? he could be sore, under muscled, or lame. how old is he and what type of work has he done? did this just come up? has he been regularly ridden?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am wondering if you are trying to hold the horse's head down in a "frame"? If the horse's head is held down and behind the vertical , then it becomes hard for it to step under. Even "Long and Low" riding, used in dressage training, has the horse stretching its' head forward and outward, not coming behind the veritcal/bit.
So, I would open the horse out forward, encourage it to let its' head come forward, and put some energy into his hind end. don't lope, gallop. free him up and move him out, and don't worry abou the head. Really go for a bit, and when you come back to a lope, if the horse starts to drop behind the bit , push him up faster again.
I am NOT a fan of Mark Shaffer and to be honest, I watched several videos of his training and found that the beautiful sorrel mare he was working on moved better in the early part of the training than after him working on her for months. Think that will start a firestorm?
It's always a huge debate, the whole Western Pleasure headset and funky moving stuff.


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## Icyred (Mar 31, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> I am NOT a fan of Mark Shaffer and to be honest, I watched several videos of his training and found that the beautiful sorrel mare he was working on moved better in the early part of the training than after him working on her for months. Think that will start a firestorm?
> It's always a huge debate, the whole Western Pleasure headset and funky moving stuff.


You are right, it is a debate and one that I do not one to start by any means. All I can suggest is to watch the videos with an open mind. He has some great exercises. If you don't want your horse in this type of frame/way of going that's fine. I know me and my gelding to HUS and that requires a longer frame and we still benefit from the exercises. But it is something to consider that he knows what the show world wants when it comes to western pleasure horses, being as he has had over 100 championship winnings. But again that is the show world and quite different maybe what you may want to do. 

Bah, backing up, pivots, and sidepassing.  It should help. Hahahaha. Let me know how Lena does for you! Good luck!!!


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

> video??? he could be sore, under muscled, or lame. how old is he and what type of work has he done? did this just come up? has he been regularly ridden?


I will upload the video in a little bit. She does have soreness issues, but in her front legs. Wear and tear in her front joints from reining. She is 14 years old. No, she's been like this for a year (as long as I've owned her) Yep, she is ridden 5-6 days a week in the summer.



> I am wondering if you are trying to hold the horse's head down in a "frame"? If the horse's head is held down and behind the vertical , then it becomes hard for it to step under. Even "Long and Low" riding, used in dressage training, has the horse stretching its' head forward and outward, not coming behind the veritcal/bit.
> So, I would open the horse out forward, encourage it to let its' head come forward, and put some energy into his hind end. don't lope, gallop. free him up and move him out, and don't worry abou the head. Really go for a bit, and when you come back to a lope, if the horse starts to drop behind the bit , push him up faster again.


I think that actually might be the problem! My trainer, who focusses in dressage, is always getting me to have contact on her mouth and get her bending. She kept falling apart when I held onto her... and when I rode by myself I let her have a loose rein and she went along so much better.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It isn't so much that the horse has or hasn't contact, but whether the horse is reacting to that by coming behind the vertical, kind of tucking behind the bit. Doing this really does put the horse harder on to the forehand. 

If the mare has been ridden most of her life on a loose rein, she will be resentful of contstant contact. I think one has to make the transition slowly. 
Also, in a dressage type working frame, you would need her to step withl a lot more energy and umph from behind than she is used to, too. In fact, without that extra push from behind, if you put contact on the bit without adding drive, you only shut the horse down more and put more weight onto the shoulder and forehand. 
Does this get tiresome to you, hearing all this dressage talk that may or may not make sense at this time? I can imagine.
Do post the video as they speak volumes.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

^^ I am actually taking western lessons on her. With a curb bit, when I was supposed to have constant contact. I am just going to do western for myself from now on, or go to a training who only does reining or western pleasure. I will use my trainer for english lessons though.

I will get the video up soon!


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

Impulsion/collection comes from the HINDQUARTERS dont forget!  So many think that a tucked neck indicates a collected horse.

Videos would help alot 

Could be laziness, training issues, back soreness, or hocks/stifles


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

Video is uploading.. should be up in a few minutes  
I watched it again though, and it doesn't seem like she is. Maybe I was going crazy before, or maybe not? haha


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

She normally is incredibly lazy, but the day we took these videos, we had been doing lots of speed type stuff, and it got her engine going. haha
Here's the video:





Youtube made it all blurry and scratchy


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Horseluver,

thankyou for the cute video. Lena is really a nice looking horse and goes pretty nicely if you ask me. The thing I immediately notice is not her but YOU. You are leaning so far forward and have your legs crooked up and I am not sure, but it almost looks like your heels are gripping into her sides. mostly, your leanig forward (and I saw this throughout the video) puts you horse off balance. She struggles to keep you balanced because your position is weak. Evidence by when she came to quick stop, as you had asked, you fell forward. 
I did see her cant her hind end in a little on the canter, but as for her being able to engage her hind end, it's realy hard for her because she is heavy on her forehand , in part due to her trying to keep you balanced when you are leaning too far forward. 

She is really a cute and responsive mare. I really like her and you can get a whole lot more out of her when you get the most out of yourself, and you have a lot of potential as a rider.


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## barrelracer892 (Apr 3, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Horseluver,
> 
> thankyou for the cute video. Lena is really a nice looking horse and goes pretty nicely if you ask me. The thing I immediately notice is not her but YOU. You are leaning so far forward and have your legs crooked up and I am not sure, but it almost looks like your heels are gripping into her sides. mostly, your leanig forward (and I saw this throughout the video) puts you horse off balance. She struggles to keep you balanced because your position is weak. Evidence by when she came to quick stop, as you had asked, you fell forward.
> I did see her cant her hind end in a little on the canter, but as for her being able to engage her hind end, it's realy hard for her because she is heavy on her forehand , in part due to her trying to keep you balanced when you are leaning too far forward.
> ...


This. I have this issue too. I tend to get ahead of myself, therefore making my horse get ahead of himself and stay on his forehand. I have to tell myself to sit to make him sit also.

Your horse is beautiful, by the way!


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

Thank you! The reason I was leaning so far forward in these videos, was because I was trying to get her to go faster by urging her forward. I get kinda unbalanced when going into a faster canter/gallop and need to work on that. I completely agree with the stop and everything. I do tend to fall forward if I am not prepared properly for it.
Thank you, she is an amazing horse, I have only been doing western riding for a year now, and she is soo cooperative and willing <33


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

I will have to get some more videos this spring  I only have like 4 videos in total of me riding from one day haha. There is never anyone around to take them..


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## Jillyann (Mar 31, 2009)

Set up a chair, and put the video camera on it while you ride, and record that way. Thats how I do it!! =)


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

That's a good idea! Thank you!


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## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

When asking for more speed you don't want to lean forward. You really want to be pushing from your seat and hips. The horse has to power through the back end, up through her barrel and out the front. Because of the way you are leaning she can't get off her front end enough to engage her hind end, plus you seem to be nagging her with your feet and she is getting upset with you (evidenced by the tail swishing). Try and be more aware of her movement also, if she is bent to the left then she can't turn properly to the right and she will be stiff and mad about it.

If you sit deep, sit quietly active, moving with her instead of against her, then you will find she softens and relaxes more into what you are asking.

You might want to check out Horse Training with Chris Irwin | Horse Videos – Horse.com Video Library there are some really good concepts on moving with your horse.


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