# Burying high-voltage power lines...



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

All I can say is WOW- I know when baling hay under those HUGE trusses for wire the guy driving the tractor got a mild shock. So I personally would be concerned and ask for an environmental and animal study on places with livestock and these buried wires.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

How are you going to stop it? Can’t they take through imminent domain? We had those big green boxes for the transformers in a former neighborhood.

Good Luck!


----------



## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

greentree said:


> How are you going to stop it? Can’t they take through imminent domain? We had those big green boxes for the transformers in a former neighborhood.
> 
> Good Luck!


I was wondering the same thing. Sorry if I missed it in your post, but are there already power lines (in the air) above the place where they want to put them? If so, I would think they have already have an easement and can do what they want there, whatever you say about it. Maybe they are just asking as an easier alternative to going to court to get permission? If they have the easement already, I don't think there's much you can do about it. But by all means try; it can't hurt, right?


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

We had them all over for decades. Everything was buried. It was great because weather didn't affect them. Now, they're all being replaced with overhead lines. An eyesore and much more likely to go down due to wind, ice, etc. I hate them, but the power company says the buried ones are too hard to work on if there is an issue, so they're putting in poles and we now have lines along all the roads again.


----------



## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Does the area flood and would it be an electrocution risk? 

I don't think i would feel comfortable with it being under my fence. If they put it on an easement outside the fenceline, maybe i would feel okay with that...

If they ran it through your property, wouldn't you property become a public easement?


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

In answers...
Yes, there are currently wires overhead on regular telephone poles not those behemoth tension line things.
All the power company asks for is the ability to bring a truck in when needed to service the lines or transformers...
There is nothing in writing and no covenants nor official documentation on any of this.

So, only wires are over my property...
The information being shared is sketchy at best with details as supposedly they don't know yet what they are doing...
In the 11 years my house has been in existence no one, no trucks or anything has ever come on my land to do "maintenance"...
The poles to either side of my land have a utility someone come once a year to inspect something and cut back weeds at the pole base...otherwise nothing, absolutely nothing.
I don't think they can take imminent domain..they are not public utility but private and owned by the ratepayer, that would be me.
I'm not willing to lose my land and will fight them for all I've got... or they can buy me out completely, build my new home, build my new barn and free-standing garage, fence all my acreage as I now have done and then some...and my choice of land is not cheap as I have no water on my property.
I am high & dry and that is worth $$$$$ in Florida...I won't settle for anything less either... = expensive!!
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## RMH (Jul 26, 2016)

All of our lines are underground from my house clear back to the substation several miles away which has greatly improved reliability. If they are currently overhead in that area to me moving them underground would be an improvement. I'd think you could request that they bury them 5-6' so that would be below any fence posts, or water lines that might be added later. You'd have to call Miss Utility or whatever your utility location service is called in your area before you dig. Perhaps they could directional bore it under your property if you don't want the area disturbed or if you are concerned about damaging the line it could be placed in a conduit. As far as transformers go; I've got a 2'x3'x2' metal box in my front yard where my line branches off from the main line and in the back there is a 3'x3'x2' transformer right next to my main electrical service. Those are the only two locations the power company has ever had to access. Sounds like you just need more details to become comfortable with the improvements they want to make.


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

We have underground line, with the green box thing, on our place. It provides power to us coming in from the north of the property and then travelling in a southerly direction provides power to the neighbours. It’s very nice not to have to worry about overhead lines getting in the way of what you want to do and how you move around with the bigger equipment.

Originally, the power company presented us with their location proposal which was not satisfactory as it would have gone right through the middle of our yard and, we felt, limit our usage of the yard. We gave an alternate route on our property which was acceptable to them. To date which has been about 30 years from install (touchwood) we have had no problems and other than occasional reading of the meter no presence by the company.

In your instance, horse loving guy, try to anticipate future requirements (eg fence replacement, fencing upgrade, new building, etc.) and, if you’re uncomfortable with a potential safety risk (and you have every right to think that way) plan out an acceptable alternate location in your yard to present to the company.

Hope it works out for you.

P.s. when we put in some additional fence on the south side, the company came out for free and marked line location so that we could fence. Also, where we are, the power company likes to have a distance of about 3ft away on either side from the line for ‘planting’ the posts.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

If the power line is already across your land, then they already have an easement. 

The easement would only be for the power company use, not for public access. 

If one has a power line across their property and the property owner has never seen anyone access it, it doesn't mean no-one has been out there. The utility companies are masters at accessing their lines while property owners are away. 

Power line easements are not open to the public. I realize we all, well many of us, ride along power line easements, but that doesn't mean they are public property. 

So, yes, the power company (or other utilities) can use imminent domain to obtain easements, as it falls into the category of "for the public good". 

However, the utilities would much rather work things out amicably with the property owner. 

Hard to tell which is more dangerous for horses, or livestock; power lines in the air with the potential to come down in a storm or power lines underground with the potential to cause electrical shocks of unknown strength. 

If it was my property, I would sit down with the engineers and discuss the ways that they could make the area safe for my horses. But first I would do my research so I knew the facts. 

My instinct is that a distance of 20 feet on either side of the line should be considered safe, and a fence erected. As far as the depth of the wire, that I do not know, but more than 2 feet. Minimum three feet I would guess.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Ask if they can be buried deeper 3'+ 

We had the waterboard lay new water pipes across our land. They replaced all fencing, plus erecting post and rails so we could make a greyhound track! 

You can insist on this I am sure.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

All of your comments are things we have already thought of....
As I already said...there is "no legal written easement or covenant" just a asked acceptance if work needs done they can have access, or they will take it.
Power lines right now are directly across and through my yard...so they are moving it to the back part of my one parcel of land...
However, if they fence it off or make restrictions to it I lose access completely to my other 7 acres...all my pasture that direction.
They will not move a location more than a few feet from the lines now or the entire system needs moved, not happening.
If I could I would far rather have them come across my front driveway area...no animals and no changing it will be done..but I fear to far away from where they want to be...

Its good to know Chevaux you have the buried lines on your land with no problems ever happening.
_Do you know how deep your lines are buried?_
The project manager has no clue and seems green as grass and not livestock smart at all...new to the job and if it not on a computer screen in front of him :icon_rolleyes:
This is rural country and all kinds of livestock here abounds...and with that some tweaking to how you do and approach certain tasks.

Our concern is electrical shock and the horses digging it up as this is there roll hole and sleep spot where they make a "nest"...if you have horses you know that spot in every yard/pasture/field exists.
Our concerns are very valid.
We have buried house electric...our choice.
This is not...we are being approached but the fact is they will do what they will do as they want and tuff on us..
Our hope is to have some input on locale and depth at a minimum and not lose my access...keeping all horses and humans safe at the same time.

Our other issue is what do I do with my horses while this is going on...they must come home for water and to be fed daily.
They're weather protection is my barn... about 10 feet away from where they think they want to drop this line in the ground...and my barn isn't moving because they want to now move their line location...
My barn was built location in mind to the wires...now changing that location...well...we have a problem.:|
Right now it is unsafe for them to be on that pasture since it was treated with chemicals need to be not disturbed for 3 months...special weed control and particular plant killing agents toxic till the grass again starts to grow..
My other area is not large enough for them to be on it without destroying it and making it a drylot...for more than 2 days.
This project is going to take a lot longer than 2 days to do...

In answer to water on the property..._no water._
We do _*not *_have swamp or anything resembling that, period.
We have green grass pasture like you see cattle grazing, cause that is exactly what my land was...cattle pasture many years ago.
When we have a hurricane with 10+ inches of rain...we are clear of all water roughly 1/2 hour after the worst of the storms pass...so drainage is fantastic.
We also don't want to lose that drainage with the disturbance of the ground digging it up... :|

Waiting to hear from my vet for his input and what he can document in facts, personal experience to help us "sway" a board and engineers who don't give a hoot about my horses actually and I am well aware of that... :sad:

Appreciate the help and suggestions.
Thank-you.
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Preface this with I haven't read the replies. We chose to bury when we moved in. There is a neighborhood planned for the property next to us. The junction/transformer boxes and spots were others would be connecting are smallish green metal and on cement pads. We buried our own to get around my MILs screw up with the utilities easement. It was much cheaper doing it this way as well. Both the electric and phone company dropped the appropriate cable off and we also pulled everything to the boxes. They came and made the connections. We could have just buried the pipe for the cables and had the electric run but we would have still had to run the phone. The phone is just in PVC. I don't remember what we ran the electric in as it has been 20 years. It was a lot of gluing so I think some type of pvc as well. It was run for over a mile. We technically only have the right to electric but buried telephone with it which the electric company could not do. It was simple, relatively easy and is deep enough (3 foot to 3.5) so that it isn't going to be an issue with anything other than human operated equipment. It runs the property line and there is already an established easement. Right now the only consideration we have made for the horses is to fence the easement where there is a box that will be put in. They are allowed in to graze and graze where the other two are located with no problems. 



We have electric before many of our neighbors after storms because they get the mains done before the branches. Once the main is repaired we are good to go.


Never had an animal shocked or other weirdness. In most neighborhoods it is underground with no issues.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

ETA none of my underground lines have had to be serviced. Never had an issue with electricity and flooding. IME they aren't run on fence lines but on one side or the other. They don't want damage either. If I missed it are the lines already over your property and not next to a fenceline?


Ours are three foot off the fenceline as I don't want anything running across the property unless it it only to a structure on this property.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Lines currently run over my property...several lines but not ridiculous voltage either.
Energy company because they are upgrading service prior to reaching us is upping the voltage for a new construction project being built...and that community wants no overhead because it is a trailer park and behemoth trailers/motorhomes with not so good drivers they take out the risk of knocking down poles by burying power and utilities...that is now going to ricochet on us.
We've all seen those driving large vehicles that could not drive a tiny smart car and not hit objects...put them behind 40' motorhomes and larger truck & trailer combos...mg:
This property is 4 acres away to my north and still is impacting me...

So, left where they are the lines would cut right through my house property and you bet and they know they have one heck of a fight to try that one...
So, easiest for them is to then shift back and dump in the field where my barn is, the access to my other property is on a common boundary line....but they are not asking to bury it their..but between my barn itself and that fence line which is active with 7 horses congregating here daily and every night...this is their spot!
Now instead of shifting 100' back as is their suggestion they would shift 110' forward they would run down my driveway and no problem at all with this...
Maybe that is a workable solution...only cars drive here, with telephone/cable/internet buried shallow and they can certainly be relocated...then it is clear sailing to drop power lines and not affect me or my adjoining neighbors animals, homes or anything but a septic system_{mine}_ 30' away in proximity where they would need to draw that line through...
_We may have a possible solution at hand..._:winetime::happydance:
Now to get with the engineers and see if they can work with that...either way those lines have to move over a 100' feet...
What difference is it to go west instead of east.... :shrug:


Thank you so much for the input and help....
I am open to more ideas from all...
_Thank-you so much to all who offered, helped and made us think "out-of-the-box"..:bowwdown:_
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Underground lines are far more common in the UK and other parts of Europe than they seem to be in the US
The risks of injury from them are way less than the risks from overhead cables falling down - if they're laid across farm land then the companies involved in the excavation work have to take things like ploughing depths into account.
You should be eligible for some form of compensation for loss of use while the land is being excavated and re-seeded but once the work is complete then there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to use the land again. 
I've lived close to underground cables in the UK for years and never known of any that had to be dug up for repair work but if that were to happen you'd be compensated for the loss of use during that period
I'm sure you'd be able to come to some agreement on things like that but I don't think you could stop it happening without some very expensive legal routes which could still fail


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

In response to your question of me, hlg, I believe the lines are in the 2.5 to 3 ft depth. As explained to me by one of techs, the line will vary slightly in depth based on the topography which makes sense because the land is not completely flat; and at the depth they use, it provides sufficient clearance for tilling and seeding the land. Also, they used a line trencher which zipped along and didn’t cause too much disturbance at all.

One thing — at one point they went across our private drive and it did cause a dip which, if I’m being honest, is still noticeable all these years later but it is now more an emotional annoyance to me than any danger or inconvenience. In retrospect, I wish I had stayed on them until it was back to normal which probably have taken a couple of years or so to get right because of compaction over time leading slumping and then return of the dip. So, a clause in the deal for free return visits by the company to put things right for as long as it is needed is a good thing to have.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Chevaux said:


> In response to your question of me, hlg, I believe the lines are in the 2.5 to 3 ft depth. As explained to me by one of techs, the line will vary slightly in depth based on the topography which makes sense because the land is not completely flat; and at the depth they use, it provides sufficient clearance for tilling and seeding the land. Also, they used a line trencher which zipped along and didn’t cause too much disturbance at all.
> 
> So, a clause in the deal for free return visits by the company to put things right for as long as it is needed is a good thing to have.



Thanks, especially for that clause idea about returning for maintaining of that height clearance.
That depth would be fine except_ it *is* in the horses paddock area_ where they congregate daily, and dig their sleeping/loafing pit spot.
I can't make the horses move so the line has to not get to close to their pawing hooves...that is my dilemma...
If we could get it 5 - 6 feet deep, go for it...but when I sank fence posts to not quite 4' I hit water so...don't think they are going to bury this in known water purposely...
I have dirt delivered and I spread in the areas where they congregate already so they not unearth the horse fence bottom and cast themselves... 

I know this is going to settle and continue to settle for a long time to come...and soft dirt really invites the horses to dig like crazy in it...
:runninghorse2:...


----------



## dogpatch (Dec 26, 2017)

Our power to the house was buried when we put our new mobile home in 1996. It is buried deep and is in conduit. They trenched through my arena, screwing up the footing, which eventually healed. The green box sits just outside the arena fence. Hubby worked as a cable splicer specializing in underground for the power company most of his career. He says there are few drawbacks.
Plus is fewer weather related problems. There are numerous safety features built in.
Rarely, a transformer can blow up. A fuse usually goes first. Overhead transformers blow up more often and cause more damage. As for digging post holes, Always call for a locate before you dig!

You can also put a fake hotwire around the transformer. That's what I do when I turn the horses into the back yard. We specified where the transformer went and hubby specified conduit instead of direct bury. If they can't get below 36" to direct bury, it has to be in conduit.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

So, the proposed trailer park changes things; they want that additional revenue! 

That puts you in a better bargaining spot. 

The media can be your friend too. A news story about how a trailer park 4 miles away is forcing difficulties for you and your livestock. 

The engineer is responsible for taking into account all environmental aspects, don't let his lack of experience give him a pass on responsibility. He either is a licensed engineer or working under the supervision of a licensed engineer. 

IMO you should attempt to get the area fenced, and have them build a bridge in the gap between fences so you horses can go to the back 7 acres without it turning into a muddy mess. This could be a bonus for you as you would be able to close the back 7 off when you needed to.


----------



## dogpatch (Dec 26, 2017)

Important!! Hubby adds, get in writing power company will pay all costs! Depends a lot on age of house and local laws. Also check with county to see if underground increases property taxes, and whether everything else has to be upgraded!


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

A friend of our works for the electric company. I texted him this morning to ask how deep electric lines are usually buried. In our area, buried lines are generally 3.5 to 4 feet deep to get them below the average frost line and to prevent farm equipment from hitting a line when plowing/planting fields. He said that may be different in an area without agricultural use or without cold winters, but at 3.5 - 4 feet, I've never heard of anyone having issues with animals or people over the buried lines.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

@cheveaux. It all depends on the soils and how they are layered. Here we are sand over clay. Trenching, laying and backfilling left us with a hump that is stillpresent all these years later. It helps keep water on the neighbors side and down to the low spot without adding even more water to our property. I suspect though HLG has a soft sandy soil all the way down to where it would be buried and dip like yours could be what happens.


I'd push to run it along the drive or along side a fence line not across anything. Here we have to have an easement to run utilities over another person's property but the electric co-op does not need a specified easement. It keeps the agreements between the parties being serviced and not the co-op. That allows for leeway in where lines are run. Both sides have to be in agreement and the co-op has no say in where they are run if the path is safe for all and efficient in layout. Then the co-op is responsible for all costs unless the owner has agreed to take on specific costs to install (like we did to get around only having an electric easement) then the co-op is responsible for all maintenance costs. That said if you were here the path would have to be hashed out between you and the RV park owner and you could force them to sue for it and pay you for loss of use as nothing can be built along the lines if it runs across a property.


----------



## AndalusionTales (Dec 25, 2018)

Usually, when lines are buried, it isn't just the cable that's buried, they place the cable into a protective tubing that's waterproof and rather thick. My husband, an electrician has stated to me before that underground is actually better than overhead as underground has more buffering the electricity with the tubing so the cables aren't having interference where overhead has nothing and is just the cable.


----------



## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

With not being able to see how the layout of the land is, it's hard to imagine where they would put this said underground cable. Even if the power company had an easement, it does not mean that they now own the land. I just got through reading quite a bit about easements. In Florida, an easement for the power company would allow them to access the cable but they cannot interfere with the land owners use of the land.

Just because the cables go across your property in the air, does that mean that they have to put them in the same place underground. Can they not go around the perimeter of the property? Can they run it further away from where the horses congregate? Can they run the power lines further out into the pasture where it is grass and not be dug up? I would think that it would be in their best interest to bury the cables where it interferes the least with the inhabitants of the property.

If I had power lines going across my property, I would love to be rid of them. But not at the expense of not being able to use my property the way that I wanted to.


----------



## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

I have underground power to my house. It runs about 5 to 6 feet off one side of my drive. As I have a lot of trees, it was better this way. No cutting of the trees. I almost never lose power. They put it at least 4 feet in the ground. When going thru rocky areas or under a road way, it is in conduit. There is an above ground transformer that is about 3 by 4 feet. They don't want anything planted within 3 feet of it, if they have to work on it. There is conduit 4 feet in the ground from it to my house. The only question I ever had was setting a gate post. I called before I dug. They came out marked the ground, no charge. When the wind blows I do not lose power.
I would have no problems with lines going underground to my barn in the future. I don't have horses that are going to dig 4 feet down. Lines going overhead are a lot more dangerous.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

So update time...what I know so far.

I called and spoke to "the engineer head of the department" who knew nothing of this project or what I was referring to...
He himself is now on a fact finding quest..
He also did not know of the burying of power lines that someone OK'd but never was put across* his *desk...big no-no.

The power lines are on hold right now I am told by the utility engineer I spoke with...
Once he has a grasp of what is happening, what they tried to do he will be to speak with us and the neighbors to educate, inform and work with us for a end result we are all comfortable with. As of right now, nothing is happening to force us to allow a power line burial.
The man I spoke with also owns horses so he totally understands my worries and fears...he gets it.
He gets the danger we feel.
He has already explained enough my fears are less but still great concern is had.
I already have my house power underground so am not opposed to it but location, location, location is huge for all of us.
And we are going to explore with him moving that power line 150' - 200' feet from current location to the front edge of my the property where nothing but a driveway easement is that bothers no one...
That's it...all I currently know.
Expect to hear more details next week...engineer asked me for a solid 7 days to do some fact finding and rattling of chains as he put it to figure out who did what and have them answer for it it sounds...
Some underhanded nonsense is happening and it is not going to help me be quiet at this point...
I think I made a friend when he saw my horses and my concerns the other day are legit and not blown out of proportion ridiculous..
....


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Good for you! Sounds like someone one the property being developed got a little too friendly with the lower level management. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Call the power company up and THANK them for giving you buried lines. Unless you drill into it you are unlikely to ever have a personal problem with it. I've had buried power on my property for decades...44 years this Summer.. (that we had to pay for). No worries about anything being electrocuted by downed lines. For a buried line to electrocute would be a minor miracle (it's in the ground so even if it gets cut and wet it's "grounded" vs laying "live" on the surface as an accident waiting to happen. My animals spend a lot of time being over buried power lines. Everyone out here wants them.


Go with the buried lines and be happy that the power company is fitting the bill these days.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I think it is more where they are wanting to run them (originally) and with the water table and the horses digging plus the unknown if you aren't familiar that brings concern. I have buried as well. Paid for the pipe and did the work except for actually connecting. Where they went was hashed over in court so as not to inconvenience anyone and still plan for the future. Had nothing to do with the power company though as easements are between property owners but once granted and utilities run the precedent is set and the utility company responsible for future connections and maintenance. You can also refuse to allow connections if the originating service for another property comes through the line that services your house. They have to back track to the nearest junction and run from there instead of upping the voltage and then establishing a junction essentially at your home service. They can't just come in and say XYZ wants power and the cheapest, easiest route is to up your voltage and run you a new line from the pole at your house and run their power from that pole. Some of the initial discussion as I envisioned it really made no sense to anyone but the power company's bottom line.


----------

