# Curb or Snaffle?



## Thyme (Sep 4, 2010)

I think I horse and rider can do anything in a snaffle, if your horse is too head strong for this, you should take some steps back, and develope a softer connection first.
Switching to a harsher bit is just starting a war, and in some cases they start to get hard headed in that and then people get an even harsher bit etc.
This is what I am currently working on with my mare, its not really fun, but its necessary :/
I am not an expert, if your horse is dangerous in a snaffle, bolting etc. definitly do what you think is best or ask a trainer to come out and evaluat/work with your horse and you.
good luck


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## horsecrzy94 (Jul 4, 2011)

Personally I use a curb, simply because my horse is less responsive by far to the snaffle. But when choosing between the two you should ask yourself some questions. 

1) If I use a snaffle will I have to jerk on my horses mouth to get them to behave?
- If this is the case you probably need a stronger bit such as the curb. It is better to use a stronger bit, than be constantly yanking on your horse.

2) Do I understand the power of the curb?
- The power behind the curb bit is not intented to be demonstrated through brute force, but rather pressure and release. Heavy hands on a curb bit can ruin a horses teeth, and cause huge issues for the rider. 

3) Heavy Shanks Neccessary?
- The shanks on curve will be heavier than a snaffle, but that doesn't mean you can't find moderate sized ones. In fact I recccomend smaller shanks on a curb.

Hope this helps, honestly I would work a week in one bit and then a week in another, and decide which is best. Just remeber the strenghth of a curb bit it can do a lot more damage if abused even accidentally.


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## MyHorseAndMe (Jul 14, 2011)

Thank you very much. This helps a lot. I will take everything into consideration. Thanks.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Firstly I believe a bit should only be used for finesse (ie when a horse is developed and ready). It should never be used for control. If your horse is strong in the head or mouth then she is telling you something. It would be wise to take a few steps back and listen.

Secondly a curb bit should definitely never be used for control. It creates immense pressure via the mathematics of leverage. If you horse is not ready, if they are not soft in just a head collar, then they will just create other problems elsewhere. At best that will be soreness and stiffness, and at worst behavioural problems, avoidance and permanent damage.

Assuming one has the skills, it is always wise to go back and ride in a halter. If you cannot with your horse, then you are merely hiding issues which if properly resolved will ultimately create a more willing, softer and safer horse and rider partnership.


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## horsecrzy94 (Jul 4, 2011)

In response to the above post about riding in a halter, I respectfully disagree as this can be dangerous. If you can't control your horse with a slight bit only using a halter has no power to it and you will just be along for the ride with a speedy horse. While however, I disagree with that part of Doe's post, i would not discount all points made within the post.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

horsecrzy94 said:


> In response to the above post about riding in a halter, I respectfully disagree as this can be dangerous. If you can't control your horse with a slight bit only using a halter has no power to it and you will just be along for the ride with a speedy horse. While however, I disagree with that part of Doe's post, i would not discount all points made within the post.


I agree it could be dangerous, that is why I said if you have the skills etc. However I do believe that every horse can and should be able to be ridden in a halter. It is a great indicator/gauge of the horses level of training and your relationship. If you cannot ride your horse in a halter then there is something missing. It is always better to address any gaps as they always become bigger later on.

I only ever ride out on a trail etc in a halter with any horse I am on. I often get people remark that I've got balls to do that, or i must be crazy. However I take the opposite view. They take security from a bit. I do not. I have seen too many horses ride through a bit in panic. Also if a horse has truly panicked and bolted etc, then I want to bring its mind back to me as soon as possible. If I cause it pain via pulling on a bit or whatever then I do not believe that will help.

I am not saying it is the right way or the wrong way, it's just a different perspective. Too many people escalate bits and other aids for control. That in my opinion just makes for bigger problems (and falls) later on. Why can you not control a horse with just a halter? That is the question to ask.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree with Doe up to a point. The answer with this horse is not to get a stronger bit (and curbs can be _very_ strong, especially in uneducated hands). It sounds to me like this mare needs to go a step or 3 back in her training. Work on her suppleness to the snaffle and work on your timing with the release. Your timing is what determines whether she will learn to be soft or not. If you just change bits and hope for the best, it will be a very short time before you are having the same issues all over again in the new bit.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

smrobs said:


> It sounds to me like this mare needs to go a step or 3 back in her training. Work on her suppleness to the snaffle and work on your timing with the release. Your timing is what determines whether she will learn to be soft or not. If you just change bits and hope for the best, it will be a very short time before you are having the same issues all over again in the new bit.


This^.

Also, I think that curb bits are not as good a tool for working a horse in lateral movement training. The curb bit is more to be used after the horse has already learned how to turn while staying balanced over himself.
A snaffle is better if you need to use totally lateral pressure, as you might need to do for such things as a one rein stop or hind quarter disengage, or just working on getting him to follow the rein with his nose and and his body.
Riding with a curb should mean neck reining, and it's quite a bit different.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Totally agree with not going to a stronger bit for the sake of more control. Control is trained. I would agree with Doe, but would add that the halter should be a rope one properly fitted, and that perhaps some basic ground work with it would help set the foundation with the horse. It should also be worked on until mastered several times over in a controlled area. I don't think anyone is suggesting that you start using a halter and go out in the open with it.

Nextly, I have a question/statement. As a person who has recently transitioned to Western (and still stuggles at times with having to only use one hand...)it was my understanding that ths snaffle is more of a training bit, used when you may still use 2 hands. A curb with shanks should NOT be used with 2 hands. Different physics totally. is this correct?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Generally, you are correct, Franknbeans. There are some curb bits that do allow for two handed riding or a one-rein correction in emergency circumstances (cause lets face it, sometimes even broker horses need a one-rein stop LOL), but in general, it should be avoided because of the physics of the bit.


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## horsecrzy94 (Jul 4, 2011)

Franknbeans-

In reference to your question as too whether or not to ride two handed in a curb, personally in my experience both work. But every training and riding technique is in some sense specific to the horse. 

First ask yourself, if riding two-handed in a curb will confuse your horse, if this is the case its probably better you ontinue in a snaffle until you have mastered the one handed riding technique.
Secondly, when riding two handed in a curb you really should be careful not to ride with heavy hands, the curb will have a lot more power and in essence is potentially painful if not used properly. working with a trainer can really help teachone how to ride two handed in a curb.

Personally I think learning to ride both ways is smart, but realize your horse is learning too and these transitions may be difficult.... but i have found it worth it although i have an old horse which might have made teaching him plow reining easier.

ohhh another thought if you do want to try two handeed in a curb get a smaller lighter curb, you simply cant try this reining in a big one it is immensly difficult due to the fact it is just not made for the task.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

> Totally agree with not going to a stronger bit for the sake of more control. Control is trained. I would agree with Doe, but would add that the halter should be a rope one properly fitted, and that perhaps some basic ground work with it would help set the foundation with the horse. It should also be worked on until mastered several times over in a controlled area. I don't think anyone is suggesting that you start using a halter and go out in the open with it.


Absolutely! I always introduce in on the ground first and in a controlled area of course. 

With regards to your question about snaffles and curbs you are correct. As has been said, in general curbs (western) should be ridden once a horse has learned to neck rein and not two handed. There are exceptions of course.

My personal beef with snaffles is simply when they are used incorrectly. In actual fact typical western training is more likely to use it correctly than English. 

Snaffles are a uni-directional bit. Effectively a side pull. They were not designed to be used with a break in them and the nutcracker effect. Hence they were not actually designed to be ridden with two-handed contact. That is my beef. In the Uk anyone who goes for lessons is stuck straight on a horse with a snaffle and told constantly to shorten their reins and maintain contact with the bit. Ultimately this neve gives the horse a release. This then leads to all the contraptions we then see to stop the horse from trying to avoid the bit (ie release himself from pain) such as flashes, martingales etc. One of the problems is that most people riding two handed are trying to achieve collection and amongst that or as a result a certain headset. If you apply pressure to the roof of the mouth, the natural reaction is to lift the head. A French link somewhat helps with this by relieving some of the pressure on the roof, and reducing the Tongue pinching effect.

In western they are more likely to allow a release, and use it as a side pull on the way to teaching neck reining. That to me is a more appropriate use of the bit. Just my opinion.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

franknbeans said:


> Nextly, I have a question/statement. As a person who has recently transitioned to Western (and still stuggles at times with having to only use one hand...)it was my understanding that ths snaffle is more of a training bit, used when you may still use 2 hands. A curb with shanks should NOT be used with 2 hands. Different physics totally. is this correct?


A broken curb, or one with a loose jaw, or a gag, can be ridden two-handed. Use common sense after playing with the bit in your hands to learn how it acts. It certainly can't be used in the same way as a snaffle, but far too many riders are uneducated as to exactly what their bit is doing in the mouth as they pull on the reins in different ways. Every bit should be ridden slightly differently to be effective, as all are shaped and move in their own unique way.

A solid curb should not be two-handed except in an emergency situation.


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## Maggie May (Oct 15, 2010)

I use the Gauthier Aluminum Precision Spring System bit. I love it, and so does my 6 year old quarter horse. It has a snaffle like action, but its still a curb, so I can use it in shows on all horses. It allows me to make corrections when she does something. I can ride in one hand or two. I would strongly recomend this bit. 
*Gauthier Aluminum Precision Spring System Bit*


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Great discussion.

In general, I agree completely with Doe. Personally, I want all my horses so broke and so responsive, that I can easily control them in a halter at any time. The bit is only one of the many tools/aids the rider has at their disposal to communicate with their horse. I'm no Stacy Westfall, by any means, but I think some of her bridleless/saddleless performances really show how soft and willing a horse can be in the rider speaks the right language.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

This is my favorite bit. While you may not be able to tell by the pic, all parts move/swivel. Short shanks, flexible shanks and the mouth piece as well swivel. I can ride one handed and direct rein if needed. It is a soft bit, none of my horses have ever objected to it. I also have never had a control issue with it.


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## Eclipse295 (Nov 30, 2010)

What you have probable seen with the long shanks is western pleasure competition bits the riders litterally move a finger and the horse stops I ride my mare in an Eggbut snaffle for English, A short shanked arefentine snaffle for general trail riding, a small port medium shanked curb for show, and a medium shanked mechanical hackamore for speed. About the hack it is ether that or haul on her face with every once of strength, she actually responds to the hack when running full out.

It all depends on what you plan on doing, in most places if you show a horse over 6 must wear a curb under under can wear a curb nodal or snaffle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I disagree on being able to ride in a halter - I find them loose and messy form of communication at best for the angle you use them on the horse's back. Now being able to communicate with your horse bitless - sure. But use a properly fitting side-pull (or one of the other proper forms of bitless out there) that won't slide all over the face. Or even better - teach your horse to ride bridleless in a a controlled environment like a fenced-in arena (never outside of the fence though for safety reasons). Then you can ride in just about anything you want. 

As to the OPs question - how does your horse go in a snaffle? If your horse is good majority of the time in the snaffle but has an occasional issue then there is nothing wrong with moving up to a short-shanked bit with loose cheek pieces to add a little bit of curb action when needed. I do think its better to be safe than sorry - especially when in an uncontrolled environment like the trails. Just keep your hands soft and don't forget to still continue working on the basics and more finesse to your communication in the process. 

I think the mistake most people make is they over correct in the bit side - way bigger than they actually need - and then call it a good solution without continually trying to improve themselves and their horses. Improving the foundation training should always be part of the solution.


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