# Dressage Breeds



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

It depends on what you want to do with your Dressage. Theoretically, any horse can do a basic level of Dressage. If you want to be competitive and ride at the higher levels, that is where you need to start being more selective about breeds. 

I own two hanoverians for Dressage, but also love Oldenburgs and many of the KWPN's. 
Basically, warmblood's (true warmbloods, not draft x) are the key player in high level Dressage. Iberian breeds are fairly popular but the Warmbloods really do rule the roost when it comes to competition Dressage, due to their all round ability to collect AND extend their paces to a high degree. Like anything, not ALL warmbloods are going to get you to Grand Prix, but you've got a better chance on a warmblood than a standardbred that is not built for the job. 

In Australia we don't have many haffies at all, but from what I've seen on this forum, a few members compete their haffies in Dressage quite successfully. They're not terribly competitive against the warmblood 'purpose bred' breeds, but they seem to hold their own and are a great little horse for a rider wanting to go and have fun, or compete in pony Dressage if applicable. 

I'm very short too, with stumpy legs! My 1 year old is only 15.2hh, but pure hanoverian with fully imported bloodlines. The 2 year old will mature around 16-16.1hh and is also by an imported and highly successful Grand Prix Dressage stallion who puts a wonderful stamp on his progeny. Not all warmbloods are huge


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

I don't know of any. The "best" (classic) breeds for dressage are traditionally Andalusians and Lipizzaners (I was reading a book and I can't remember if it said Thoroughbreds were introduced to the discipline earlier or later). Thoroughbreds and Warmbloods do well too. Warmbloods were introduced after Thoroughbreds, but they all do very well.

Someone at my barn had a Percheron/Standardbred they were doing dressage with.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Reno Bay said:


> I don't know of any. The "best" (classic) breeds for dressage are traditionally Andalusians and Lipizzaners (I was reading a book and I can't remember if it said Thoroughbreds were introduced to the discipline earlier or later). Thoroughbreds and Warmbloods do well too. Warmbloods were introduced after Thoroughbreds, but they all do very well.
> 
> Someone at my barn had a Percheron/Standardbred they were doing dressage with.


The Iberians (andalusians/lipizzaners) are great in the collected work. However they generally lack the scope in paces and ability to extend their paces, to do well in competitive Dressage. We are very slowly starting to see some of the Iberian breeds being produced with scopier paces. But traditionally, they are very flat movers. Look at a video of the stallions in the Spanish Riding School. They are brilliant in the collected work, but in their normal paces, their hooves barely come off the ground. 
In competitive Dressage, we want a horse with scopey paces, with suspension and some 'excitement'. This is where the warmbloods come in. They don't just "do well too" - they DOMINATE. 
Thoroughbreds can do quite well, though there are not a huge amount of them that make it to the higher levels. They tend to be quite stuck through the back, and struggle with the collected work. Not all, but the majority.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Just posting what I've been learning from the book written by one of the classical dressage "masters". I haven't gotten very far in it yet, though.

I have to say the Andalusians at my BO's place have pretty decent scope. I can't get it with them yet because I'm transitioning from H/J to dressage and and a big noob XD

And by "do well too" I meant they are also some breeds that are used commonly.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

In the UK there are haffies competing at advanced medium level (4th in the US i believe) but I've never seen one go higher.

I'm biased but I like my KWPN's


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## core (Oct 30, 2011)

I haven't known of any halflingers that went past Second, BUT.. They are usually owned by Adult Ameteurs who have their own issues. The ones I've ridden are very, uh, flat. I could barely post. It was kind if nice not having to deal with a big, bouncy trot. 

My favorites are Hanoverians, Thoroughbreds, Friesians, and Arab crosses. I competed my half Arab through Third at rated shows and won a lot of Reserve or Grand Championships (Jr young rider division). Scores well, placed well. Good training is good training, and will be rewarded in the arena.

As an adult, I'm not so concerned with showing (I still get to a few during the year). I just like the challenge and the reward of feeling the horse really swinging through its back, and engaged. 

Identify what your goals are first. Weigh those out against your finances. Any breed can do just fine in dressage as long as they have the correct conformation. I know several Morgan's that are quite capable of upper level work (if only their owner was too).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I re-read, The Complete Training of Horse and Rider last year and I remember that Podjawsky commented on the Lipizzaner trot wasn't as extended as a Warmblood or TB. Perhaps, even _then_ (1960's) the sport was moving towards Warmbloods. Personally, I enjoy employing Dressage to make my horses better to handle and more athletic, which any sound horse ought to be able to do.


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## MyBrandy (Jan 19, 2011)

How about the American Saddlebred for dressage? Anybody doing dressage with their AS?


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## kayleeloveslaneandlana (Apr 10, 2011)

I do Dressage with mostly Andalusians and Lipizzaners. I am working with a 3yr old Oldenburg, who will be my big show horse.

I don't ride a Haffie in Dressage, but I do know quite a few people that do around here. They are super adorable! The last one I saw did a very beautiful 3rd level test. They defiantly have that cute factor to them!


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## tikapup1 (Nov 22, 2012)

I would say it depends on how far you want to go in dressage and what your budget is. I personally like Holsteiners and Hanovarians the best. Most horses with the stallion Donerhall in their background are great for dressage. You could also try leasing differnt horses for a couple months to see which type of horse you like the best. Best of luck!!!


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I know I am outside the box on this one. I also know that my breed bias will come out but, consider a standardbred. Great brain, height, a wonderful extended or collected trot and a smooth as butter canter. They also are willing to do whatever their rider would like. I have a few friends who do dressage with their standardbreds and really would not do it with any other breed. I am looking into doing dressage with mine as he really seems to enjoy it.


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

I think there was a Irish Sports Horse competing in the Grand Prix dressage, though can't remember 100% is it was show jumping.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Holsteiners all the way!:lol:


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

rookie said:


> I know I am outside the box on this one. I also know that my breed bias will come out but, consider a standardbred. Great brain, height, a wonderful extended or collected trot and a smooth as butter canter. They also are willing to do whatever their rider would like. I have a few friends who do dressage with their standardbreds and really would not do it with any other breed. I am looking into doing dressage with mine as he really seems to enjoy it.


I'm pretty open about breeds in Dressage, but I'm definitely not a fan of standies. Yes, SOME *read, minority* have a conformation good enough to do quite well without breaking down, but the majority of them are definitely not built for the sport if you wish to be competitive and/or ride at higher levels with a greater need for collection.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

steedaunh32 said:


> What are your favorites? Does anyone that rides dressage own a Haflinger? Just curious, as I am beginning lessons soon with the hopes and goal of owning again in the next year or so...I like the shorter guys but it seems most dressage prospects or experienced horses are huge! Looking for opinions...


Arabian!

I've seen a few haffies at low level shows. But then again I see just about everything there! I don't go to the fancy shows often and when I do I'm usually working and can't see much of who is riding what.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

KayTy I agree that not all standies are designed for it, just like not all warmbloods are designed for it. I think they are just as likely to break down as thoroughbreds that are just as often selected for the events. I would personally never own a warmblood or a thoroughbred as I don't often meet one that I like. Thats neither here nor there, and I don't see us convincing either one the opposite direction. 

I think in the end the OP needs to pick a breed she likes and decide the level she wants to pursue. In the end, what is more important the event or the horse? If you want a horse you will have fun with then go with a halfie. If you want a horse that will excel at dressage and take you to the highest levels than look for a horse with the features that will allow that. If the OP wants a halfie she should get one. In the end, she will probably have more fun doing dressage with a horse and breed she likes than in doing something with a breed she does not like. In the end, all horses require the same amount of care.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

rookie said:


> KayTy I agree that not all standies are designed for it, just like not all warmbloods are designed for it. I think they are just as likely to break down as thoroughbreds that are just as often selected for the events. I would personally never own a warmblood or a thoroughbred as I don't often meet one that I like. Thats neither here nor there, and I don't see us convincing either one the opposite direction.
> 
> I think in the end the OP needs to pick a breed she likes and decide the level she wants to pursue. In the end, what is more important the event or the horse? If you want a horse you will have fun with then go with a halfie. If you want a horse that will excel at dressage and take you to the highest levels than look for a horse with the features that will allow that. If the OP wants a halfie she should get one. In the end, she will probably have more fun doing dressage with a horse and breed she likes than in doing something with a breed she does not like. In the end, all horses require the same amount of care.


I think the point is that conformation is a big part. If the horse doesn't have conformation appropriate for the discipline then it won't do as well as a horse that does. I'm not picky with breeds, as I love all horses and don't bash any disciplines (unless they harm the animal, of course). I'm sure there are a few wonderful Standies out there who would do well in dressage, as I'm sure there are some WBs out there who aren't cut out for it. Heck, I'm only schooling my TB in lower level stuff just because it's good for him to have something to do and jumping is out of the question right now. Peace


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I completely agree Reno. I think if the OP has her heart set on a halfie she should look for a halfie that has the conformation to do dressage. It might take awhile but she could have her cake and eat it too.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Conformation is exactly what I was getting at. I have seen so few stb's that are suited to Dressage beyond Elementary level, that I could count them on one hand. 
Just like how many warmbloods do you see that could do well in harness racing against stbs? 

Tb's can be hit and miss. Some have excellent conformation for Dressage - I had a stunning grey with the most beautiful hock and knee action, uphill, short back that swung so naturally. 
But again, the majority of racing bred tb's are not cut out for it. 

Compare 100 Dressage bred WB's to 100 racing bred TB's to 100 racing bred STB's. 
The warmbloods are going to win out on the Dressage ability. Sure, some won't be any good, but if they're bred in the purple, you've got about a 90% strike rate that they'll do well. If we're talking Grand Prix, it's significantly less - and in those groups of 100, maybe 2 warmbloods will Grand Prix, if you're REALLY lucky with the TB and team it up with a fantastic rider, maybe 1 will GP, and the STB's.... well you'd need a much bigger selection to chose from than 100. 

Absolutely, if you love a breed and want to get that breed over doing well in a sport, then you go and get that breed. 
BUT, if you want to be serious in a sport, it's best to find yourself a talented and purpose bred horse. 
Just like for Cutting or Reining, you'd be far more likely to pick a QH than a WB. 

It's horses for courses. Not breed prejudice, just truth. And I've competed Dressage on multiple breeds, but none have been as talented as my warmblood. Luckily I enjoy warmbloods, and have managed to select two that I get on with very well. Both are very sweet and affectionate, but talented in Dressage.


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## InsaneDino (Aug 3, 2012)

I'm definitely partial to Arabian crosses.
Maybe an Arabian/Hanoverian cross. The extension, impulsion, and collection (including headset) of a Hanoverian mixed with the beauty, elegance, and free, floating gaits of the Arabian.
Ah, now I kind of want one... :'D oops.

I know a lot of people are big on purebreds, but every breed has their own talents and weaknesses. Why not try and combine both talents and try to minimize the weaknesses?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I have yet to find a sinle standardbred that is suitable for dressage. The majority cant canter and have a useless walk.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

InsaneDino said:


> I'm definitely partial to Arabian crosses.
> Maybe an Arabian/Hanoverian cross. The extension, impulsion, and collection (including headset) of a Hanoverian mixed with the beauty, elegance, and free, floating gaits of the Arabian.
> Ah, now I kind of want one... :'D oops.
> 
> I know a lot of people are big on purebreds, but every breed has their own talents and weaknesses. Why not try and combine both talents and try to minimize the weaknesses?


One of my boys is a Hanoverian x TB (TB mare was approved into the Hanoverian studbook as a foundation mare and scored 8.5's in the performance and breeding test by the head of the Hano German stud book). I like some of the crosses, but you really do need to cross two very compatible horses with quality on both sides. My 2 year olds dam, as I said above, was rated extremely highly as a hanoverian breeding candidate by the visiting German assessor. He said out of the whole of Australia, she was one of his favourite TB broodmares and that we should be breeding with her type more and more to add refinement and athleticism into the Hanoverian breed. 
Crossing with TB's is very common. 

There are some nice Arab x WB's around as well, though I see less of them out doing well than I do of the WBxTB's. I think you really need to pick the arab of the combination as they can throw awful looking things as well.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

faye said:


> I have yet to find a sinle standardbred that is suitable for dressage. The majority cant canter and have a useless walk.


I've seen one STB stud around here that is really quite nice as far as STB's go - even has a nice head! But it's still nowhere near the quality of conformation as a well bred warmblood.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

You know what forget I mentioned it. I knew it was a bad idea to even think of mentioning it. I was interested in dressage but you sort of reminded me why I quit years ago. You even consider doing something outside the warmblood cult and you are inferior (thats another rant for another time). You all keep your warmbloods and I will keep my ugly/useless/only good for trotting and dog food/can't canter/can't walk/big headed horse and be perfectly happy.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Wow rookie, over reaction!!!!

Everyone without a warmblood seems to hold a massive grudge against those with a warmblood. Only reason I have warmbloods, is because I've worked my backside off and gone without a huge amount in order to afford them. 
Because I'm not a fan of STB's doesn't mean I'm in a 'warmblood cult'... I think you've seen red and completely misinterpreted anything I've said, hearing only "STB's suck" or something along those misinformed lines. It gets really quite frustrating, as soon as you say you ride Dressage and have a warmblood, you are immediately guilty or being snob, having a 'pack mentality', being elitist, assuming everyone is inferior.... sheesh, people, GET OVER IT! Yeah, there's a handful of people who think that they are the be all and end all because they have a warmblood, generally those are the people who's parents have money flowing from their behinds and brought their lovely child a very expensive, pre-trained horse. The rest of us want to pursue Dressage seriously, and understand that the best way to do that, is to invest in a horse that is purspose bred for the sport - which happens to be a warmblood. 

Faye and I have both not seen many STB's that have been build to suit Dressage. If we're talking Dressage at a competitive and reasonably high level - and going by the title of this thread I'd assume that is the direction it was intended - then no, a STB is not a recommended breed. 

I've trained and competed multiple ottbs, appy's, qh's, various ponies, a percheron x qh and others I'm sure! So please, do not tell me that I'm in a 'warmblood cult'.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Kayty said:


> Wow rookie, over reaction!!!!
> 
> Everyone without a warmblood seems to hold a massive grudge against those with a warmblood. Only reason I have warmbloods, is because I've worked my backside off and gone without a huge amount in order to afford them.
> Because I'm not a fan of STB's doesn't mean I'm in a 'warmblood cult'... I think you've seen red and completely misinterpreted anything I've said, hearing only "STB's suck" or something along those misinformed lines. It gets really quite frustrating, as soon as you say you ride Dressage and have a warmblood, you are immediately guilty or being snob, having a 'pack mentality', being elitist, assuming everyone is inferior.... sheesh, people, GET OVER IT! Yeah, there's a handful of people who think that they are the be all and end all because they have a warmblood, generally those are the people who's parents have money flowing from their behinds and brought their lovely child a very expensive, pre-trained horse. The rest of us want to pursue Dressage seriously, and understand that the best way to do that, is to invest in a horse that is purspose bred for the sport - which happens to be a warmblood.
> ...


I think the disdain some of us have for warmblood owners is just that we meet _waaaaay_ too many of the conceited, my-horse-is-better-than-yours-in-every-single-way type of people. I have nothing against a good horse or the people who own them. My personal problem arises when they decide that they are superior to everyone else and think they have some sort of duty to let us know at every turn that no matter what our "lesser" horses are worth less than the manure they excrete. I don't care that your horse is lovely...just don't go telling me that mine is a useless piece of crap XD

In fact, quite unfortunately, my entire experience with people who have WBs has consisted of that type...aside from perhaps one or two people here (albeit, I don't know any of you in person).


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Well, I don't believe I have EVER told a single person that their horse is a 'worthless piece of manure'. 
I am honest, and if I see a horse that I don't think will excell in what the owner is wanting it to, I will speak up. But I ALWAYS explain why I am of that opinion. I have never told anything that they MUST get a WB to be good at anything. 
I think people that get their noses out of joint about warmblood owners, often judge before they speak to that person, and that assumption gets in the way of the truth. 
I have always taught people who do not own warmbloods, and only over the last 3 years have I had my own warmbloods to compete. 
As I've said thousands of times (I feel like a broken record) I started out with a multitude of other breeds and did well on them. 

But if a horse just isn't cut out for something, then it just isn't. Thats not snobbery, its just honest. I understand that people don't want to hear any kind of negative feedback on their horses, and if thats the case, don't ask anyone for advice. Us 'warmblood people' cop A LOT of flack over our choice of horse, probably more so than what the 'non-warmblood' people do.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Kayty said:


> Well, I don't believe I have EVER told a single person that their horse is a 'worthless piece of manure'.
> I am honest, and if I see a horse that I don't think will excell in what the owner is wanting it to, I will speak up. But I ALWAYS explain why I am of that opinion. I have never told anything that they MUST get a WB to be good at anything.
> I think people that get their noses out of joint about warmblood owners, often judge before they speak to that person, and that assumption gets in the way of the truth.
> I have always taught people who do not own warmbloods, and only over the last 3 years have I had my own warmbloods to compete.
> ...


I like to hear things my horse can improve on, if possible. That's not what my experience has been away from this forum, which is the problem. Even people who haven't ever seen my horse will automatically turn up their nose and act all superior as soon as I mention anything about owning a Thoroughbred. That particular kind of behavior, in my opinion, is downright rude.

I LOVE warmbloods. They're gorgeous. I just don't like the bad apples that crop up in the people that own them. You, however, are not one of those thankfully (or so you have appeared).


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

My favourite horse was a thoroughbred, I don't think I'll ever be able to replace him, no matter how good any new horses are. 
If you've read any of my posts in training/riding etc. I will always, without fail, try to give the poster advice on what they can do to improve the horse that they have. 

That issue is NOTHING to do with people owning warmbloods. Don't try and throw it into the mix to add more ammunition. 
It really does irk me that we all get heaped into the same basket. As soon as I type a response I'm deemed a warmblood snob if I didn't tell the poster that they're perfect in every way. It's really quite infuriating, and does make me hesitant to offer advice. I am here because I like to help other people with issues they're having with their horses, and frequently take a lot of time to come up with a response for them.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Kayty said:


> My favourite horse was a thoroughbred, I don't think I'll ever be able to replace him, no matter how good any new horses are.
> If you've read any of my posts in training/riding etc. I will always, without fail, try to give the poster advice on what they can do to improve the horse that they have.
> 
> That issue is NOTHING to do with people owning warmbloods. Don't try and throw it into the mix to add more ammunition.
> It really does irk me that we all get heaped into the same basket. As soon as I type a response I'm deemed a warmblood snob if I didn't tell the poster that they're perfect in every way. It's really quite infuriating, and does make me hesitant to offer advice. I am hear because I like to help other people with issues they're having with their horses, and frequently take a lot of time to come up with a response for them.


This is true. Kayty has been of immense help to me and my riding, reining horse actually. She is always helpful and has never come across IMHO to be a WB snob. Not at all.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Kayty said:


> My favourite horse was a thoroughbred, I don't think I'll ever be able to replace him, no matter how good any new horses are.
> If you've read any of my posts in training/riding etc. I will always, without fail, try to give the poster advice on what they can do to improve the horse that they have.
> 
> That issue is NOTHING to do with people owning warmbloods. Don't try and throw it into the mix to add more ammunition.
> It really does irk me that we all get heaped into the same basket. As soon as I type a response I'm deemed a warmblood snob if I didn't tell the poster that they're perfect in every way. It's really quite infuriating, and does make me hesitant to offer advice. I am hear because I like to help other people with issues they're having with their horses, and frequently take a lot of time to come up with a response for them.


You misunderstand a little. It's people in general...especially competitive. It seems that warmblood vs everything else is a huge bomb everywhere, which honestly I don't understand. They're awesome animals. Every horse has it's own place in or out of the ring. I'm not trying to attack you personally in any way. I'm explaining what my personal experience has been in this particular 'war zone'.

Unfortunately I live in an area where every show I go to it's mostly people who have nothing _constructive_ in their criticism. It's just people downing you everywhere, which doesn't make it fun at all. I like my horse experience to be fun, not stressful. Another unfortunate in that is that a high percentage of those people happen to ride warmbloods in these shows, which doesn't make anything look good. I'm sure if they were all riding mules, Thoroughbreds, llamas it would be the same thing, just because of the kind of people they specifically are...I seem to be in a sort of snob mecca.

You, Kayty, are no snob. You are helpful, very much so. People tend to get caught up in this stupid hype and can't see past the stereotypes. I appreciate criticism about myself and my mounts, as long as it's criticism that can help me as opposed to criticism meant to hurt (you can tell in the tone some people use, if speaking directly). Too many people are just stubborn and set in their minds...I'm not even a big part of this hype and it is frustrating even to me. I'm frustrated _for_ all the good people out there who get all this garbage just because they have a great warmblood.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I did over-react and I am sorry for that but I just get sick of hearing the same thing over and over again. You hear about how warmblood owners are stuck up snobs and all I ever hear is how standardbreds are ugly, and can't do anything except trot, which apparently they have a horrible one to ride. At least you get to go out and ride a horse and have people say "well its a warmblood so of course it can do that. I get to hear "thats a standardbred?" or "look at his ears" or "they have horrible trots" or "You can ride them?" etc. I get just as tired of hearing that as you do about warmblood owners being stuck up. We are on different sides of the same coin. We both have breed stereotypes. We just happen to be on a thread in which your breed stereotype is stronger. 

The difference is that when people go after warmbloods they go after the rider. When people say things about standardbreds they go after the horse. Which is hard because I really, really, really, really like my horse. I think they are the best horses I have ever ridden and in my book they are the bees knees which all riders/owners think of their horses. I can handle people saying all manner of horrible things to me and about me but I don't like hearing horrible things about my horse. Particularly by people who have not seen them or ridden them. 

Its just frustrating because I was like I should not even post this on a dressage thread, because its all about warmbloods. Then I was like oh well maybe they will be open minded. Nope, same old same old. 

I don't mean to assert that warmblood people are snobs. I don't mean to offend anyone. Its just hard when I work with people who have these horses with french passports, who buy horses that cost more then my house and treat me like trash because I am on the farm doing vaccine records. Not all warmbloods owners are snobs just like not all standardbreds are bad riding horses.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

No worries Rookie.

And for the record I don't thikn STB's are bad horses. I've got lots of friends with them and they have all been very sweet horses. They're just not the type of horse that is built to be successful in Dressage. And it's not something to get upset about, its how they're bred - success in harness racing requires a different build to success in Dressage. 
As I said earlier, I know a lovely STB stud, he's easily the nicest one I've seen around and he could probably do quite well. But still - when you compare him to a well bred warmblood stud, the warmblood is going to be better suited. Generations of specific and careful breeding to create that particular WB as a Dressage machine, would be very much wasted in a harness bred trotter was better suited to Dressage. 
Again, not breed prejudice, just generations of 'type' breeding.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

This is exactly why I love the horse world. There are so many different breeds to do many different jobs. All of them can do something of value. All of them can do low level dressage or different types of lower level western, etc. When you want to specialize and go further in a discipline, that's when you pick the one out that can get the job done.

If you love the STB's ... ride on! Don't let the haters get you down. I have known plenty of Standards in my younger days and they were always one of the best horses around.


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## MissBalloon (Nov 28, 2012)

I have a beautiful Anglo Arab mare, who is the most beautiful dressage horse. Fantastic mover.. when she's not being lazy.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

MissBalloon said:


> I have a beautiful Anglo Arab mare, who is the most beautiful dressage horse. Fantastic mover.. when she's not being lazy.


This brings up a good point. I would think Arabs would be wonderful in this sport at high levels. Is there a reason they aren't up there? I'm guessing this is a newbie question but I know absolutely zero about dressage. I just love to watch it


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

There are a handful of anglo's and arabxwb's doing fairly well (don't hit me, I know I said the dreaded w word!) in the higher levels of competitive Dressage, but in my limited experience with arabs, they appear to be very much leg moves and not so much back movers, along with often being quite 'straight' in their movement. This makes collection and connection in a higher level Dressage sence, more difficult. 
But if you get a good one that will swings its back and lower its haunches, then you're off to a great start!


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Okay. Thank you, Kayty. I'm going to have to dig in and learn a bit more about this!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

wow rookie way to overreact!

I never said I hated standardbreds, my mums favorite horse was a standard bred. They just do not tend to have the movement or conformation for dressage and I have never seen one that has.

My last horse was a connemara, before that it was an arab, a BRP and a welsh section B, my current horse is a section D x wb. I have also schooled an OTTB for dressage (he was as thick as 2 short planks and honestly wouldnt have known a corner if it jumped up and bit him!) and a Welsh section D. 

I have no WB prejudice however 100's of years of breeding for athletisism means that 90% of wb will be able to do a decent level of test. I wouldnt race a WB as they wouldnt do well, I wouldnt do endurance on a highland pony, i wouldnt ask a TB to carry weight.

Kayty the problem I had with my arab was that he was far too intellegent and tended to learn tests so would always anticipate. I couldnt even run through a whole test once as he learnt it.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

Clydesdales are relatively new to the dressage arena but make fabulous dressage horses. They have fabulous movement and considering their size, are very light on thier feet. They are moving up in competitions and I think it wont be too long before we see them competing at top level. My wee lad (18hh) has won his novice and intermediate class. I am so proud of him.


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## core (Oct 30, 2011)

BBBCrone said:


> This brings up a good point. I would think Arabs would be wonderful in this sport at high levels. Is there a reason they aren't up there? I'm guessing this is a newbie question but I know absolutely zero about dressage. I just love to watch it


I was heavily into Arabs when I was younger. Most don't have the hind end to do high level dressage. What I ran into is the majority are very straight in the croup, with straight hind legs. Some lines are still bred for athleticism under saddle, and they've done quite well in dressage (with the right trainer). 

I have seen a few really nice Arab thoroughbred crosses. I was impressed with the Arab friesian cross I saw. But I think the warmblood Arab crosses usually look like someone just added pieces together at random (I did see one that looked good). 

It really just comes back to correct conformation for dressage. If you can find an Arab, or Arab cross, that's got the conformation for dressage then it can do well. If not, it's a struggle when you start working on collection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

bluebird, there is no such thing as an intermediate dressage test.

There are 2 Intermediare levels but you would never be doing Inter 1 or 2 on a horse that is also doing novice as Inter 1 is higher than PSG.

Pure Clydesdales do not generaly have the conformation/strength behind to do upper level work however there have been a few very sucessful Clydesdale x TB dressage horses (upto PSG i think)


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

As soon as you say warmbloods are the best breed for upper level dressage....

In a similarly themed thread, I posted a picture of my draft cross and asked if people thought she would be suitable for reining. As expected, several people took me seriously and explained that she did not have the right conformation for a reining horse and, surprise, surprise, no one went nuts and accused them of being quarter horse snobs. 

Funny how that works.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

faye said:


> bluebird, there is no such thing as an intermediate dressage test.
> 
> There are 2 Intermediare levels but you would never be doing Inter 1 or 2 on a horse that is also doing novice as Inter 1 is higher than PSG.
> 
> Pure Clydesdales do not generaly have the conformation/strength behind to do upper level work however there have been a few very sucessful Clydesdale x TB dressage horses (upto PSG i think)


I think before anyone starts to criticise pure Clydedales having or not having the 'right' look to do dressage, actually needs to do two things: First-ride a Clydesdale (not a cross or a heavy cob but the real thing). Secondly, go and watch Clydesdales do dressage. You may find your jaw falling on the floor. Have a look at this video and then tell me agin what you said....LOL


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Bluebird, one does not need to ride or own a horse to have a valid opinion on its conformation. It's not about the 'right look', it's the 'right build'. We look at the build because a correct build with make the sport mitch easier for the horse. 
Yes like any breed, there are a handful of clydies that might do alright in dressage, but that doesn't mean that they are all going to go FEI. They are built to pull things with their front legs - this has been red into them for hundreds of years. Just as warmbloods have been been bred for hundreds of years to carry weight on their haunches. I have yet to see a Clyde with quality enough paces to be competitive in dressage, and most of these 'clydies doing dressage' videos do not show them in true collection. 
Like friesians, they bend their knees and hocks a bit to look fan y pulling a cart, but don't sit behind. 
I think they're gorgeous horses and it's lovely seeing them being competed in dressage, but for the serious, competitive dressage rider they are just not suited.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Nope no jaws dropping, I see a horse that is at the limit of its ability, is struggling to sit on its hocks and is not straight, the half pirouette in walk was not good. It is doing its best (and doing it well enough) but it is not easy for it. It is struggling to collect and conciquently the quality of movement is not there

I know enought about the clydesdale conformation to be able to comment on it as I worked one summer at a heavy horse centre doing displays, showing inhand, riding, schooling and generaly educating visitors about the breeds of heavy horse. They had a soppy Clyde stallion called Sam who was gorgeous and honestly tried his best for me but he just was not built for dressage. They are built to pull which means that whilst there is driving power in the hind end the slight croup high nature of the breed (slightly croup high being a desired trait in Clydes) makes it very difficult for them to get their behind underthem sufficiently for dressage and making them tend dump onto thier forehand.

I have ridden quite a few clydes and shires.

When you cross a clyde with a TB in general you tend to loose the croup high aspect and lighten the forehand making it more athletic.

ETA oops Kayty I crossposted with you, I agree it is not hte look it is the build that they dont have.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

steedaunh32 said:


> What are your favorites? Does anyone that rides dressage own a Haflinger? Just curious, as I am beginning lessons soon with the hopes and goal of owning again in the next year or so...I like the shorter guys but it seems most dressage prospects or experienced horses are huge! Looking for opinions...


 
I have a haflinger mare and hope to do more dressage next year, my riding instructor thinks she has a lovely action and good potential.

One day....:lol:
in our dreams...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUiCLUakQFY&feature=plcp


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

Kayty said:


> Bluebird, one does not need to ride or own a horse to have a valid opinion on its conformation. It's not about the 'right look', it's the 'right build'. We look at the build because a correct build with make the sport mitch easier for the horse.
> Yes like any breed, there are a handful of clydies that might do alright in dressage, but that doesn't mean that they are all going to go FEI. They are built to pull things with their front legs - this has been red into them for hundreds of years. Just as warmbloods have been been bred for hundreds of years to carry weight on their haunches. I have yet to see a Clyde with quality enough paces to be competitive in dressage, and most of these 'clydies doing dressage' videos do not show them in true collection.
> Like friesians, they bend their knees and hocks a bit to look fan y pulling a cart, but don't sit behind.
> I think they're gorgeous horses and it's lovely seeing them being competed in dressage, but for the serious, competitive dressage rider they are just not suited.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well I have seen some fabulous Clydesdales doing excellent dressage, especially in Scotland. We'll wait and see who has the last laugh. As I said, they haven't been doing it for too long on a competitive level but all it takes is the right horse and the right rider. Too many people are far too quick to label horses they know absolutely nothing about.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Some people are far to quick to train horses for things that they are just not suitable for and then wonder why they dont get good results or the horse breaks down on them.

You wouldnt expect a shetland pony to do well at BSJA showjumping, or a highland pony in a flat race! Yes you will always get the exception to the rule, but in general those exceptions are not good examples of the breed in the first place.

Bluebird, have you ever owned connies or warmbloods or TB's or Quarter horses? by your own logic if you've never owned one then you have no right to comment on anything even the training of those breeds.

You've already prooven your ignorance of dressage might be time to stop digging that hole.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Bluebird said:


> Well I have seen some fabulous Clydesdales doing excellent dressage, especially in Scotland. We'll wait and see who has the last laugh. As I said, they haven't been doing it for too long on a competitive level but all it takes is the right horse and the right rider. Too many people are far too quick to label horses they know absolutely nothing about.


I might have actually snorted some drink out my nose at this. Did you seriously say that?

Anyway. Clydesdales as a general rule don't have the conformation to excel at dressage. This doesn't mean that the "right horse and right rider" couldn't succeed to a high level - no one is saying that. What Kayty and Faye are saying is that there are breeds that are more suited to dressage, where it doesn't take the "right horse/rider" combination every time for the horse to be competitive at higher levels of dressage, because, as they say, most of the dressage bred warmbloods are already predisposed for dressage. The time the Clydesdale riders spend overcoming their horse's conformational difficulties, the warmblood rider has used to further their horse's dressage training.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

MyBrandy said:


> How about the American Saddlebred for dressage? Anybody doing dressage with their AS?


There are a few. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRpjVbiUIAA

I think another thing to consider when talking about "which breed for dressage" is what is the riders ultimate goal? How many riders that ride dressage go all the way? Often, it isn't the horse that holds them back, it is the rider. Many riders do not wish to commit the time, patience, money to going to the top. Many riders are thrilled to do first or second level and many breeds are more then capable of doing that. 

I have witnessed so many extrordinary horses that are being ridden by people that hold the horse back and then riders that do not have the horse to take them as far as they could go. Sad that we couldn't just do a bit of horse swapping. 

I personally think there are tons of Saddlebreds that could climb through the levels easily enough but few people think of them as the "breed for the job" many see them as a park horse and that is the totality of their ability. People who have tried them in other disciplines are often shocked and happy with the actual diversity these horses are capable of. 

Thoroughbreds can be great horses too. There are some that are competing successfully at higher levels and some that would struggle in the lower levels. Chosing the right horse for what you want is the key and being honest with your own abilities and limitations. Why have a $40,000 + horse if you will never go beyond the lower levels. I mean, if you like that particular horse, and can afford it, go for it but it takes a team to truly compete at the higher levels, the horse can't do it all by itself. 

This is a Thoroughbred off the track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx8IFlknNIU Silva Martin wanted to show people how these horses CAN be retrained to do other things. Playing the "call to post" in the beginning to show that the horse doesn't fly off the handle just from old memories. I love that horse too. 

I tend to be a "root for the underdog" type person. I love seeing people who are willing to put in the work and take up the challenge of the less common breeds in a discipline and still succeed.


I wanted to add this quote from someone else, mostly as I agree 100% with it. ha ha


> Dr. Deb Bennett, PhD., analyzed the American Saddlebred in her Applied Conformation series (in Equus 225)
> "For more than 100 years, American Saddlebreds have been produced for the purpose of carrying a riders weight comfortably and efficientlyI have never seen any Saddlebred horse - even a part bred - who did not readily perform the passage Most have incredibly comfortable﻿ and coordinated canters as well I think they are the most neglected of all breeds suitable for dressage."​


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I agree with Inga! She said what I think a lot of us have been thinking but unable to put into words well. It all depends on the riders goals. An owner should select WHY they want a horse. If you want a horse to win the olympics with then select a horse to do that. If you want a nice horse to work and train to the training level and enjoy on the weekends than get a horse YOU like and is compatible with you. Whats more important the disciple or the horse? 

I also think that when people are selecting a dressage horse they tend to discount certain breeds because they are not the stereotype dressage horse. So, you get an under-representation of certain breeds because people don't think the horse can do it. I remember reading an article about a FEI level trainer ( I don't remember her name I think she was in New Jersey or North Carolina) who was known for "taking on non-traditional horses" what they meant was that she rides thoroughbreds and had taken taken another (I want to say connamara, but I am sure its wrong) to the higher levels. I think there is an element of selection that takes place that has nothing to do with the horse and everything to do with the expectation. In the end, when you look at math and physics bumblebees are not supposed to be able to fly, but they do. Dan Patch had a crooked leg and needed special shoes and a special (extra wide) cart to accommodate his leg, yet he was still the first horse to race set the race mile of 1:55 and became a national celebrity for it. I am not saying that clydes or unconventional horses are going to be represented in the numbers of warm bloods for dressage (there is selective breeding); however, I don't think they should be discounted as entire breeds. There are individuals who perhaps could go to the higher levels but won't because people who could train them to those levels would never look at them as dressage horses. I am not saying thats all the time, but maybe once and a while it happens.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

If you want a horse for a certain job and a demanding one at that, buy a horse who's bred to do that job. Simple. If I wanted ride the upper level collected movements, I could look at a million Clydesdales, searching for the one who might hold up to that work, or I could buy an Iberian or Warmblood who is bred to the nines for that very work. Why do the former? Unless I was desperate to prove a point about "dressage breeds." I'd rather have a horse who's happy and comfortable in his work myself. 

That Clydesdale in the above video didn't sell the idea of Clydes as upper level horses. It looked like it was struggling with the harder movements. If that were my horse and I fancied it staying sound, I wouldn't push it any harder. 

I have a horse now who is not built for upper level collection and I'm not pushing the point with her. Why bother? For the next horse, I will have to decide if that's something I want to seriously pursue, in which case I'll look at Iberians, or if I'm happy to potter at low levels and trail ride, in which case I'll look at Highlands. Horses for courses. Nothing snobbish about it. You just have to be realistic.

Lendon Grey took her Connemara, Seldom Seen, to Grand Prix. He's the exception rather than the rule. If Connies as a rule were consistently doing well at that level, you'd see more of them. And GP Connies are, well, seldom seen.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

faye said:


> Some people are far to quick to train horses for things that they are just not suitable for and then wonder why they dont get good results or the horse breaks down on them.
> 
> You wouldnt expect a shetland pony to do well at BSJA showjumping, or a highland pony in a flat race! Yes you will always get the exception to the rule, but in general those exceptions are not good examples of the breed in the first place.
> 
> ...


I think you need to learn some manners young lady. You are becoming very personal. You have no idea about me or what my experience with horses is. I am certain I have been around a lot longer than you and as long as my horses are happy, healthy and doing ok at dressage, endurance riding, jumping I couldn't give one hoot about the finer points of dressage. I have a professional rider who takes Patrick to competitions for me. He wins against your sports horses and 'proper' dressage horses, I like that, I don't give a hoot about the finer points of the competition or the 'proper' language or terminology to use. I have in my care: 2 retired TB racehorses Bobby nad Harry, 1 28yr old Arabian called Chuckie, 1 Connemara called Mylo, 1 QH called Raven, 2 Hunters Donnegan and Findlay, 2 Hanovarians Rodney and Dave, 1 Shire (rescued) called Major, a retired top class showjumper called Eddy who makes even me look like a good rider! This is in addition to my two precious Clydesdales one of whom does dressage Kinclune Patrick and the other Glennane Majestic Clyde (Saxon), is going to be trained to ride Western when he is old enough. I live less than 6 miles from Epsom and have contact with world class jockeys and horse trainers. I have met some of the most famous racehorses in the world - Red Rum, Mill Reef (way before your time) I also go over to Richmond Park with my farrier and help with the Shires who pull a pleasure carriage and they belong to HM The Queen whom I have also met and spoken to about horses on many occasions. Now then, go get yourself some manners!


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

thesilverspear said:


> If you want a horse for a certain job and a demanding one at that, buy a horse who's bred to do that job. Simple. If I wanted ride the upper level collected movements, I could look at a million Clydesdales, searching for the one who might hold up to that work, or I could buy an Iberian or Warmblood who is bred to the nines for that very work. Why do the former? Unless I was desperate to prove a point about "dressage breeds." I'd rather have a horse who's happy and comfortable in his work myself.
> 
> That Clydesdale in the above video didn't sell the idea of Clydes as upper level horses. It looked like it was struggling with the harder movements. If that were my horse and I fancied it staying sound, I wouldn't push it any harder.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with you that if you are looking for a dressage horse, you would not go looking for a Clydesdale. The video of the Clydesdale was to give an example only. It took place in Australia and I agree he was not one of the best but he was still quite nimble for a heavy!. Clydes doing dressage is still quite new and there aren't many or any videos posted of the really good ones and I have never taken a video of my Patrick doing dressage. If I find one, I'll post it. They are really amazing horses. I also know that there is a guy in Israel who rides a magnificent black Shire that does top level dressage. I'll research that one too. Clydesdales and other heavies are only just starting to become popular as riding horses and it is as people try out new things that we are discovering more and more about what these horses are capable of. You really have to be passionate about heavies to take them into the competition world because a lot of people do look down their noses and some of the comments can not only be offensive but downright insulting. Heavies will have a place one day in top competitions just like any other horse. Its just that the majority of genuine 'Heavy Horses' are rare breeds and there aren't that many of them around and neither are there that many people who will look at them as riding horses. Things are moving forwards though and especially in the UK, riding heavies is becoming extremely popular. ALready some competitions are looking into special 'ridden heavy' classes like they do in Scotland. Its only going to be a matter of time. Look at the Para Olympics - there was a major step forward!


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.


Time to simmer down everyone 

Let's focus on the Horses and not each other :wink:

.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

*After removing bunch of personal post, this is 2nd and LAST mod note (next step will be temp time off the forum and closing the thread): PLEASE, CALM DOWN, and lets talk about HORSES! *


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

So.... Back to horses. None of the Warmblood lovers (and I am one of them) commented on the examples that I posted. Whar are your thoughts on Saddlebreds? Have you truly only seen a few Thoroughbreds worthy of high level dressage? Man, I have seen many talented horses but like I said, often they are under handled. If the rider and the horse are not both very talented, you won't go far. I wish more of the truly good riders/trainers would work more with some of the lessor appreciated breeds. Alright, maybe not Shetland ponies but the Thoroughbred, Saddlebred and a few others that can be quite lovely. 

The comment about the horses that do make it are usually poor examples of their breed? I have not noticed that at all. I do hear people who look at a Saddlebred with a lower head carriage then some of the high end park horses and automatically think that it is a dressage prospect. I myself would like to see the high end examples of the Saddlebred trained for dressage. This is a breed that can move.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

Inga said:


> So.... Back to horses. None of the Warmblood lovers (and I am one of them) commented on the examples that I posted. Whar are your thoughts on Saddlebreds? Have you truly only seen a few Thoroughbreds worthy of high level dressage? Man, I have seen many talented horses but like I said, often they are under handled. If the rider and the horse are not both very talented, you won't go far. I wish more of the truly good riders/trainers would work more with some of the lessor appreciated breeds. Alright, maybe not Shetland ponies but the Thoroughbred, Saddlebred and a few others that can be quite lovely.
> 
> The comment about the horses that do make it are usually poor examples of their breed? I have not noticed that at all. I do hear people who look at a Saddlebred with a lower head carriage then some of the high end park horses and automatically think that it is a dressage prospect. I myself would like to see the high end examples of the Saddlebred trained for dressage. This is a breed that can move.


I'm not familiar with what a saddlebred is. Can you explain?


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

It's an American gaited horse. Never seen one out here. I just had a look at YouTube and there are plenty of examples of people doing lower level with them, except for this video, which looks like PSG. It's all right. Still doesn't look like it has the carrying power behind of warmbloods.






If you're after a "non-traditional" breed for your FEI dressage, that's fantastic, but you'll have to look hard and get lucky. Because I like an easy life, I'd buy an Iberian if that's what I wanted to do.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Bluebird said:


> I'm not familiar with what a saddlebred is. Can you explain?


 
This is a Saddlebred https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRpjVbiUIAA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3ynW0fDBuI

But they most commonly are used here as Park Horses. Shown in 3 gaited and 5 gaited classes. Like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKzF0muYS3A Contrary to recent popular belief, these are not sored horses and are not BIG LICK horses. These horses are bred to move like that, and enhanced through collection and muscling just like in dressage.

More breed information. American Saddlebreds At Work and Play
I honestly believe them to be one of the more diverse breeds and have a great work ethic "game" and are also amazingly sensitive, gentle horses. Often great with jr. riders and even elderly. There used to be a woman in her late 70's early 80's that still showed park horses. She was amazing and I hope I can still ride like that at that age.


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## maisie (Oct 23, 2011)

I don't know that this thread has been very helpful to the OP - it may be true that to compete at "the very highest levels of dressage" one needs a Warmblood-type mount, at least these days. However, most people just _don't_ compete at those levels. Many horses can be successful dressage mounts and bring lots of excitement and fun to the majority of riders.

I prefer my horses in the 15-16 hand range and love the underdogs so I'd rather work on a smallish thoroughbred or one of the shorter breeds. Everyone knows this horse, I guess, but he's worth watching again and again -





 
No disrespect meant to Warmbloods, honest.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Maisie,
My warmblood is only 15.2hh with fully imported lines. 
My 2 year old WB x TB is probably going to max out at 16hh... 16.1hh if I'm lucky.
They're not all 18hh monsters


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

maisie said:


> I don't know that this thread has been very helpful to the OP - it may be true that to compete at "the very highest levels of dressage" one needs a Warmblood-type mount, at least these days. However, most people just _don't_ compete at those levels. Many horses can be successful dressage mounts and bring lots of excitement and fun to the majority of riders.
> 
> I prefer my horses in the 15-16 hand range and love the underdogs so I'd rather work on a smallish thoroughbred or one of the shorter breeds. Everyone knows this horse, I guess, but he's worth watching again and again -
> 
> ...


I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. See, that is what happens when people say "what? Why Can't I do it?" and they try. Told again and again, she couldn't do it and... I did it, I did it, I did it. Just imagine if more would follow suit. Great little horse there. Thanks for sharing that fun and inspirational video of the horse that could, and did.


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## DrillRider (Jun 23, 2012)

I just bought a haflinger gelding and once we get a few things worked out hes going to be a great dressage horse. My trainer was really impressed at his size (15.2ish), conformation, and movement. I was told his father shows grand prix dressage. We are getting over some issues with him paying attention to me and his job but other then that he is AWESOME. I never regret buying him and cant wait to show him! If you are thinking of a hafligner I would for sure look into it more!


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

maisie said:


> I don't know that this thread has been very helpful to the OP - it may be true that to compete at "the very highest levels of dressage" one needs a Warmblood-type mount, at least these days. However, most people just _don't_ compete at those levels. Many horses can be successful dressage mounts and bring lots of excitement and fun to the majority of riders.
> 
> I prefer my horses in the 15-16 hand range and love the underdogs so I'd rather work on a smallish thoroughbred or one of the shorter breeds. Everyone knows this horse, I guess, but he's worth watching again and again -
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for sharing that. It is truly an inspiration.


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## maisie (Oct 23, 2011)

> My warmblood is only 15.2hh with fully imported lines.
> My 2 year old WB x TB is probably going to max out at 16hh... 16.1hh if I'm lucky
> 
> Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeds/dressage-breeds-142229/page7/#ixzz2Dcg0cN3f


That's true. However, I still maintain that there are horses of a variety of breeds that can compete in dressage at the levels that most of us will reach, and these are not shining exceptions like Seldom Seen. I for instance, really want to pursue dressage for as long as I enjoy it. I'm 57 and have been re-riding for 2 years. A Halflinger, Morgan, Arabian, OTTB or anything with the right general conformation & personality would be awesome for me to take to maybe levels 1 & 2, especially since I may seldom or never ride in a recognized show. There are also some Warmbloods that might suit me, but I don't consider it necessary. 

That's all I'm saying.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

maisie said:


> I don't know that this thread has been very helpful to the OP - it may be true that to compete at "the very highest levels of dressage" one needs a Warmblood-type mount, at least these days. However, most people just _don't_ compete at those levels. Many horses can be successful dressage mounts and bring lots of excitement and fun to the majority of riders.
> 
> I prefer my horses in the 15-16 hand range and love the underdogs so I'd rather work on a smallish thoroughbred or one of the shorter breeds. Everyone knows this horse, I guess, but he's worth watching again and again -
> 
> ...


I really like what you're saying about dressage!


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

I guess I'm not understanding the problem. I didn't pick up that anyone was saying you could not use XYZ horse in dressage. All they were saying was that to reach the highest levels of that sport, you'd be better off going with breeds that were designed for it. You might get an exception to the rule. It does happen. But if your plan is to do it big, you might find the path of least resistance a much easier road to follow.

If I'm going to be going out cutting cattle I'll be looking for that athletic, quick, low to the ground Quarter Horse that can get low, dip and dive and turn on a dime. I could do this on a different breed for sure. But will it be as graceful or done as well? Probably not. Exceptions to the rule not withstanding of course. 

And just for fun ... this was one of my favorites to watch. May she RIP.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

My WB x is going to top out at 15hh and I am expecting big things from him (maybe not the olympics as I'm not that good but would be nice to get to PSG which will take a heck of alot from both him and I)

I've never seen a saddlebred in person and I cant view the vids at work but I would have to ask the question that if they are "gaited" then would they not find it difficult to overcome the gaiting and get True Trot, canter, etc? (BTW no offense is ment by the above question just genuinely curious)


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## core (Oct 30, 2011)

Not all Saddlebreds are gaited. 

I worked with a Saddlebred cross once. Gorgeous mover, had a very nice hind end, and the best temperament ever. Nothing phased that horse. It was smart and gave its all. Awesome breed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

OP - If you arent very tall then why not consider a warmblood pony - a german 'design' using mostly UK ponies and warmblood horses, something thats been a work in progress for many years now. There are a lot of them being imported and bred in the US now
I have seen some very nice arabian x warmbloods that are being bred in the US for the part arabian show and dressage classes
I have a dutch WB x TB, she has the elevation and length of stride but lighter built than a purebred dutch WB - makes her narrower and a better fit for my also short legs!!!
A lot depends on what you want to do - how high you want to go but I know many people who started out in eventing and showjumping on very average horses and then progressed on to the more scopey expensive ones later on when they felt it was where they wanted to go with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqboE_CUBZM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5woa2rBO6g

A Hafflinger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUiCLUakQFY

*Intermediate Pony Club Dressage test*
http://www.pcuk.org/uploads/dressage/Intermediate_DR_2009_Test_Sheet.pdf
*Intermediate II Dressage test sheet - order form - Official British Dressage website*
British Dressage


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

jaydee said:


> A Hafflinger
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUiCLUakQFY


Isn't that the one I posted earlier:wink:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Clava said:


> Isn't that the one I posted earlier:wink:


 Probably - Havent had chance to look at all the videos posted yet as I shouldnt even be sitting here doing this at all
Apologise for the repeat - at least we must be on the same wavelength which has to be worth something!!!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Some example of German Riding Ponies with a slight tendency towards dressage

Popcorn

Gestüt Bönniger - Reitpony-Zucht und Ausbildung
Click on "Deckhengste" if only the HP shows up


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## Smokum (May 4, 2012)

I wish to learn dressage on my appaloosa. More for learning than competing. 
I would like to advance my riding ability and my horses collection. 
To become one with my horse.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

BBBCrone said:


> I guess I'm not understanding the problem. I didn't pick up that anyone was saying you could not use XYZ horse in dressage. All they were saying was that to reach the highest levels of that sport, you'd be better off going with breeds that were designed for it. You might get an exception to the rule. It does happen. But if your plan is to do it big, you might find the path of least resistance a much easier road to follow.
> 
> If I'm going to be going out cutting cattle I'll be looking for that athletic, quick, low to the ground Quarter Horse that can get low, dip and dive and turn on a dime. I could do this on a different breed for sure. But will it be as graceful or done as well? Probably not. Exceptions to the rule not withstanding of course.
> 
> ...


Blue Hors Matine was such an enthusiastic girl. Absolutely stunning. I always find the time to watch that performance. I'm also completely enthralled with Salinero...there's just something about him that I am absolutely in love with and I can't put my finger on it.


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## AllieJ333 (Nov 2, 2012)

Bluebird said:


> Clydesdales are relatively new to the dressage arena but make fabulous dressage horses. They have fabulous movement and considering their size, are very light on thier feet. They are moving up in competitions and I think it wont be too long before we see them competing at top level. My wee lad (18hh) has won his novice and intermediate class. I am so proud of him.


I'm sorry, but I've seen Clydesdales doing dressage before. It's cringe-worthy.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Allie, I think it's just the 'novelty' value of a big clumpy hairy draft doing a couple of Dressage moments that have been trick trained is quite entertaining 

Train them Dressage at home, but don't cry and call 'warmblood snobbery' when they are not well received in competition!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChristineNJ (Jan 23, 2010)

What about a 16hh Quarter/Cross for Dressage?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

That tells us nothing at all. If its built we with good paces and an ability to collect then yes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm a little late to this thread... I like Arabians for dressage. They have such a nice trot and many have great extensions, and (for me) they are the ideal height. Here is an Arabian gelding I used to own (now since passed away).


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## McTavish (Feb 18, 2013)

am little late the the forum
completely agree with the idea that one needs to know what you want to acomplish 
any horse can do lower level 
many cannot be competetive at higher level
I am now on my 2nd Friesian - I am an older ( so actually old) re rider adn the calmness was an importatnt factor.
My first horse ( who died a year ago) had too long a back to go beyond 2nd level but he was the kindest horse in the world and was a fabulous "dressage horse" for me
my current horse is better suited with lovely gaits - walk trot and canter and is quite forward
He could in my opinion do pretty well with a good rider - but he has ME
for the more timid less althletic rider the mind is a huge issue for dressage 
but most Friesians do not have the build for really high level work
( this is NOT me on him)


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Allie, I think it's just the 'novelty' value of a big clumpy hairy draft doing a couple of Dressage moments that have been trick trained is quite entertaining
> 
> Train them Dressage at home, but don't cry and call 'warmblood snobbery' when they are not well received in competition!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


sometimes i just want to make a hanoverian thread and talk about how my horse can do anything and is a better breed than anyone elses.....


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Bluebird said:


> Totally agree with you that if you are looking for a dressage horse, you would not go looking for a Clydesdale. The video of the Clydesdale was to give an example only. It took place in Australia and I agree he was not one of the best but he was still quite nimble for a heavy!. Clydes doing dressage is still quite new and there aren't many or any videos posted of the really good ones and I have never taken a video of my Patrick doing dressage. If I find one, I'll post it. They are really amazing horses. I also know that there is a guy in Israel who rides a magnificent black Shire that does top level dressage. I'll research that one too. Clydesdales and other heavies are only just starting to become popular as riding horses and it is as people try out new things that we are discovering more and more about what these horses are capable of. You really have to be passionate about heavies to take them into the competition world because a lot of people do look down their noses and some of the comments can not only be offensive but downright insulting. Heavies will have a place one day in top competitions just like any other horse. Its just that the majority of genuine 'Heavy Horses' are rare breeds and there aren't that many of them around and neither are there that many people who will look at them as riding horses. Things are moving forwards though and especially in the UK, riding heavies is becoming extremely popular. ALready some competitions are looking into special 'ridden heavy' classes like they do in Scotland. Its only going to be a matter of time. Look at the Para Olympics - there was a major step forward!


Can I just make the point that, living and competing in Scotland and in the heart of Clydesdale territory (have ridden Clydesdales both at the Breed Show an the Royal Highland) that Ridden Clydesdale show classes are very different from dressage? When I've competed dressage, even in the lower levels we don't see many Clydesdales in Scotland - Clydesdale people here concentrate on competing in the show ring rather than a dressage ring. They know they can win championships in the show ring, and yet their horses would struggle even at elementary dressage some of them! I love Clydesdales and have ridden and competed a few, but in Scotland they certainly aren't popular as a dressage breed - serious Clydesdale people here compete their horses to their breed strengths. Just what I've found here in Scotland, since you use Scotland as an example of dressage for Clydesdales - it's not, except in breed specific Clydesdale dressage classes at breed shows, an then they are intro/prelim tests.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Gypsygirl, of you are inferring that I feel a hano isbette than every other breed, you are increasingly off track and playing into childish territory. 

My point, is, was, and always will be that there are breeds that have been designed with various sports in mind, and as a result are going to be more suited and more successful than breeds who have been 'designed' for tasks which are not at all related. 
I would certainly never expect my Hanoverians to be successful over a quarter horse in barrel racing, would not run faster than a race bred TB, would not work in harness better than a hackney, or draft breed. 
So, why is it expected that any breed can go up and win at a high level of Dressage, and when beaten by a WB (which by the way does not include just the Hanoverian but a multitude of types all very much bred towards success in the dressage arena), they cry unfair and breed snobbery?
You won't see me strolling into a reining thread and shouting blue murder because I think a Hanoverian is just as good as a QH and anyone who thinks differently is a breed snob. 
Get the point that I am making, NOW?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Gypsygirl, of you are inferring that I feel a hano isbette than every other breed, you are increasingly off track and playing into childish territory.
> 
> My point, is, was, and always will be that there are breeds that have been designed with various sports in mind, and as a result are going to be more suited and more successful than breeds who have been 'designed' for tasks which are not at all related.
> I would certainly never expect my Hanoverians to be successful over a quarter horse in barrel racing, would not run faster than a race bred TB, would not work in harness better than a hackney, or draft breed.
> ...


no im saying that its annoying that people are always arguing that drafts are the best and can do everything ! 

i think its annoying that if you have a warmblood people think you are automatically a snob ! i am agreeing with you =]


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Whoops sorry, I misread your post! That'll teach me for reading the forum before I'm even out if bed :S

It does get very frustrating, having it assumed that as WB owners we are not just snobs, but RICH snobs. Nothing could be further from the truth!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

if they only knew how poor i was...and how hard i work !

people think because i have a nice horse everything is easy and i dont have to work hard...HA


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Know that feeling all too well. Spighi is the most difficult horse that I have owned, sensitive, anxious little thing he is. 
Not to mention how broke I currently am, definitely no silver platter hovering near me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

My friend is bringing her WD QH to the barn soon. I am stealing her saddle and transforming Ro into a reiner. Since apparently if the horse fits in the tack its automatically a world class reiner/dressage horse/jumper/hay burner.
Then I'll compete and whine about the QH snobs and why aren't Swedish Warmbloods scored well in reining. Or maybe I'll hook him up to a cart...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Know that feeling all too well. Spighi is the most difficult horse that I have owned, sensitive, anxious little thing he is.
> Not to mention how broke I currently am, definitely no silver platter hovering near me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


gypsy isnt anxious, but shes very very sensitive. if you dont ride her just right she will let you know very dramatically =D aka i break my arm lol

there is a lady at my barn who thinks that gypsy going well just happens. she doesnt understand that i WORK her 6 days a week, i dont just ride around randomly...so annoying !


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