# Help me analyze sweat marks for my Western saddle?



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Yes, those are pressure points. I'd see if I could have my saddle evaluated by a fitter.


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Crap :/ Just the side one? Or is the spine spot a problem, too?

I will have someone take a look, but in the mean time do you know if it's possible to correct the pressure points with pads, or do I likely need a different saddle?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Based on how the dry marks are down the spine and where the forks of the tree are likely to sit, I'm going to take a guess (I'm NOT a saddle fitter) and say that I'd bett your tree is too narrow and the saddle is bridging. So, my guess is that you need a new saddle but might be able to SHORT term be able to pad up. I sure wouldn't want to do any long rides.


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Argh! It has FQH bars, so it seems wild that it would be too narrow (he's a 15.2hh paint in good physical shape). I'm glad I asked for advice -- my poor baby's back! I'll have my trainer take a look and try to find a fitter. So far I only see a $125 service, which I'd like to avoid :/
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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Another question...could a too-thick saddle pad cause that? I have a very thick pad, among the thickest I've seen, so maybe it would be better to get a thinner gel pad or something?
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

SammysMom said:


> Another question...could a too-thick saddle pad cause that? I have a very thick pad, among the thickest I've seen, so maybe it would be better to get a thinner gel pad or something?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Check with your local tack shop, they might offer to do it free, especially if you're considering a new saddle. I can't answer on the pad, I don't know. Here's what I use daily: Dura-Tech® Support Contoured Pad with Tekno-Dri in Work/Protective at Schneider Saddlery

You might try something like that and see if it helps.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I wouldn't be concerned about the spot along his spine.

It's the spots on either side of his withers that concern me. Without seeing for myself how your saddle fits and moves on him, I can only venture a guess that the saddle might be too narrow through the gullet and that's causing it to pinch on his shoulders.

Another thing to think about is what rigging your saddle has
Western Saddle Rigging

If it's got the front rigging in the full position, that can make a slightly ill-fit worse because it's putting every bit of the cinch pressure right on the front edge of the bars.

Is there maybe another spot farther back toward his loin that is a little bit drier than the rest? Somewhere around where I've circled in blue? If so, then the bars of the saddle might also be a bit too straight for the curve of his back, causing the majority of pressure to be on the front and back of the bars instead of evenly spread over the entire length.

I don't think that trying a thinner saddle pad can hurt, but that would only be a quick, temporary fix. You might look at Diamond brand blanket liners. They are usually thinner (1/2 inch) but still offer a good amount of support.


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks, that helps a ton! I will borrow a thinner pad today and get him nice and sweaty to check it out. I think there may have been a smaller dry spot where you circled. His coloring makes it tough to tell; I drive myself crazy trying to tell if parts of his white hair are dry 

Dream, thanks for the idea about the tack shops. I'll ask at Coastal today and local shops tomorrow!

It's scary to think about how many people buy saddles and never check into fitting. I know people who use the same saddle and pads on several horses. I'd hate to find out later I'd been doing damage to my boy.
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

There are saddles out there that seem to fit just about everyone pretty well. I have a Dale Chavez that fits my QHs, my Arabs and My SaddlebredX just fine. But what they all have in common is, WIDE at the withers and shoulders. It wouldn't fit a more Thorobreddy horse at all. I check my fit first, and then does it fit the horse. If it's good for me and not the horse......nope.......good for the horse and makes me miserable........nope........it's got to be good for both of you or you won't want to ride.


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> There are saddles out there that seem to fit just about everyone pretty well. I have a Dale Chavez that fits my QHs, my Arabs and My SaddlebredX just fine. But what they all have in common is, WIDE at the withers and shoulders. It wouldn't fit a more Thorobreddy horse at all. I check my fit first, and then does it fit the horse. If it's good for me and not the horse......nope.......good for the horse and makes me miserable........nope........it's got to be good for both of you or you won't want to ride.


Hopefully I'll find a good fit soon! This sale I have now is the same size and model I was using on the draft x I leased, so I'm holding out hope, but if it doesn't work out I may ask you for saddle recommendations 

I just bought a Gel Impact wool pad, so hopefully I'll be able to use it with any saddle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

SammysMom said:


> Hopefully I'll find a good fit soon! This sale I have now is the same size and model I was using on the draft x I leased, so I'm holding out hope, but if it doesn't work out I may ask you for saddle recommendations
> 
> I just bought a Gel Impact wool pad, so hopefully I'll be able to use it with any saddle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, since I swear they'll bury me with my Dale Chavez, there's your recommendation! :lol: The nice thing about them is, he does custom so you can easily get adjustments done.


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

So I rode with the new pad and the area underneath was uniformly spongy with dirty boy sweat. The spots in the new photo where it's lighter are, I think, just where he was less filthy, although I suppose it could just be he was less soaked there. As long as he's sweating everywhere, though, should it be ok?


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

And here are a few of the saddle on him


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

The sweat marks look better with the new pad, and it is okay if there is a dry spot on his spine. But in the last picture you would want to move the saddle up more on the pad so that you have room behind the saddle, I generally put the saddle up so that its by the little leather piece sewn on the top of the pad. And the thing that you want to remember with the pad with the wither relief holes on them, you want them all perfectly in the center down his spine, if they're not, they can cause sores.
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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

1 - Please resize images prior to posting. With a width of 2600 pixels, it makes everything wonky on the page.

2 - Sweat marks are not the end all for checking saddle fit.

3 - Some photos (resized to no more than 1000 pixels wide, please) of just the saddle on the back might help, particularly from the front.

4 - With just the saddle on the back, press down firmly on the low point of the seat with one hand and slide your other hand under to see how it feels. If it is bridging, you might be able to feel it.

5 - This website has a ton of good information on western saddles and their fit:

False "saddle fit rules" regarding the shoulder blades

A few hours reading his various posts can be a great education in saddle fit.

6 - We have an Abetta saddle. The tree on it is smaller than our Circle Y - so small that we can (and do) use a Wintec English foam pad under it.

7 - If anything, it looks to me like the saddle is too wide, but that is a WAGuess.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I also enjoyed this comment on the page I linked to:

"_Posted by Knut on Nov 19th, 2011 

The gun fight at the O.K. corral was actually started by two saddlemakers sitting around a bottle of whiskey talking about saddle fitting !_ "


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

SammysMom said:


> And here are a few of the saddle on him


If you normally set your saddle that far back, that's part of your problem. English saddles sit behind the withers a little but Western saddles are meant to have the horn above the withers. So scoot your saddle up where it belongs and check the fit again. It may, indeed, be too wide for the horse in the proper position. 

and not to be offensive, but I wouldn't let that saddle near one of my horses. I really think a good quality saddle can make all the difference in the world, both in comfort for you and the horse and in putting and keeping you in the right position.


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks, Louie. I'll pay attention to placement. 

Bsms, sorry about the pictures. I uploaded to imgur on my phone and didn't think about the size. And I'll look at that link as soon as I'm home! 

Aside from the sweat marks, the people I've had look at the saddle thought it fits, but I'll have my trainer take a look tomorrow. If it's too wide, can I compensate with padding, or is that as bad as a saddle that's too small?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> If you normally set your saddle that far back, that's part of your problem. English saddles sit behind the withers a little but Western saddles are meant to have the horn above the withers. So scoot your saddle up where it belongs and check the fit again. It may, indeed, be too wide for the horse in the proper position.
> 
> and not to be offensive, but I wouldn't let that saddle near one of my horses. I really think a good quality saddle can make all the difference in the world, both in comfort for you and the horse and in putting and keeping you in the right position.


No offense at all. I got that one used and planned to use it until October, when I'm getting a nicer one, and then I was going to use this one in the winter when i need a break from the arena (Oregon, so rain all winter). I of course won't do that if it's a bad fit for Sam. 

As for it being far back, I'll watch that. I tried to do the "push it into the sweet spot" thing and it seemed to settle there, but tomorrow I'll make sure to place it further up.
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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

And thanks to all of you for the non-condescending advice! I really appreciate it. This is my first Western saddle and Sam is the first horse I've had to fit track to, so I know I'm coming off as pretty incompetent. I really am trying to learn and be the best mom I can to him, so I'm grateful for the help 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Too wide can mean two things:

It can mean the blue bar is too long, or it can mean the angle formed by the black lines is too flat. If the angle is too flat, it is tough to do anything about it. It will still put pressure on the horse near the top of the vee. If the angle is too steep, then the tip of the bars will dig into the shoulder. If the blue bar is too long, then some extra padding can make it work.










The largest manufacturer of saddle trees in the US uses 9 standard shapes:

Steele Saddle Tree LLC - Fit To The Horse


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Hey, none of us are born knowing everything (wouldn't that be nice though LOL). The marks certainly aren't as noticeable with the new pad, but I still believe they are there. Of course, there is only so much we can tell in pictures.

Just guessing from the one picture of the saddle on him, I'm going to say that it's likely not a great fit. The bars appear that they might be a bit too flat for him. Couple the too-flat bars with what looks to be a full rigging and having the saddle sitting just a bit too far back and that could explain your problems.

I wish you lived close to me and I'd let you give my Corriente a shot. Other than really narrow, angular horses with high withers, that saddle fits nearly everything.


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Ah! Thank you both! That helps a bunch. I think you're right about the bars being too flat. 

Assuming I need to look for a new saddle (or for when I look for a better one), do you have any tips on picking one out without having the horse there? The tack shops I go to give you a trial, but I'd like to go back and forth as little as possible to get it over with. I know there are tons of fitting tips online, but do you have any links or above for a good way to figure out what I need beforehand? Any way to measure? Can I assume I should start with semi-qh bars since the full seems too wide?
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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Oops, I mean standard. Not semi.
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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

You can take an old coathanger and make a "wither tracing". That's where you bend the wire to where it fits his withers where the front of the saddle would lay, then you trace that wire onto a piece of heavy paper like cardboard. Then, you take the cardboard to the tack store and just start sticking it under the fronts of saddles until you find one that fits correctly....or close to it. It will at least give you a closer idea of which one to take home and try on him.
Wither Tracings - How to Make a Wither Tracing for Saddle Fitting


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

Ah, that's perfect!! Thank you 
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