# Julian & Friends



## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Hello everyone

I'm just starting a horse called Julian under saddle - a paternal half-brother to my riding horse Sunsmart, who sadly died last year just two days off age 25.

I had a journal here for a long time and then decided to do other things. I don't want to resume that journal, but I did want to provide an update as it's already written (I have an online open journal etc) - some people who visited that journal for seven years may like to know what happened next. So here it is. It's self-contained, so it's not necessary to go back to my old journal.

*A TREE CHANGE AND ITS CONSEQUENCES*

In 2010, we were both working in professional positions and were in the process of making offers on houses in a small coastal town nearby when we had a curveball thrown at us. There was a 62 hectare rural lot in the hinterland in our price range: 50 hectares of beautifully preserved, highly flammable Australian sclerophyll ecosystem, and 12 hectares of pasture currently running beef cattle.

It was, miraculously, in our price range, because the price reflected that properly managing 50 hectares of native vegetation is time-consuming, expensive and requires specialised skill sets and a ton of passion, while providing zero economic return. It turns out that I have a science background that includes ecology and my husband has extensive experience at preventative fire management, which is totally necessary in Australian sclerophyll - and had been conducted for over 30,000 years by Australia's Indigenous people, in a very different way to the combination of neglect and overburning that has characterised post-colonial management of Australian fire-adapted ecosystems.

It was off-grid, with nothing but bushland and mostly bare, wind-blown pasture. It also turned out we were bloody-minded and into DIY, nudging 40 and able-bodied. So what we did is buy the place, put in the necessary amenities, plant shelterbelts in the pastures by hand, and design and owner-build our own eco-house on a shoestring budget we firmly stuck to (we're neither of us high-income earners, nor did we rob a bank or win the lottery or come into an inheritance - we just know how to do frugal in order to save up for things). This is what it all looked like coming up to ten years later - in the middle of a summer drought, after three years of getting less than 60% of average annual rainfall:





_Kindly provided by a guest with a drone_

We've since had an apocalyptic winter that flooded much of the South Coast, washed away bridges and roads, gave pasture animals footrot and killed some of our fruit trees and tagasaste hedges.

It's been quite a journey. Looking at the clip I can see why we've been so busy since we bought the place. We're now downshifters living off-grid via solar panels plus four bottles of camping gas a year for cooking, and we grow much of our own food (F&V, beef, honey - and getting pastured eggs and milk from neighbours). My husband works in town four days a week and I run the smallholding and an eco-farmstay, and write. We'd never have imagined we would end up doing this, but here we are. It was our chance to save 50 hectares of native ecosystem that goes all the way back to ancient Gondwana from being cleared for "development" or overrun with goats or otherwise degraded.

Here's some of the flora and fauna in the area we are stewarding:

Red Moon Sanctuary Flora and Fauna

Because of the pasture, I was able to retire an old mare I'd had since childhood at our own place for the last three years of her life, and keep my (ex-harness, DIY re-educated) riding horse here too. The Donkey Society got in touch with me about a group of donkeys with special healthcare needs (two obese, one blind) and we adopted those in 2012:

_Don Quixote, Mary Lou, Sparkle_

...and another two from a neighbour three years ago (and now we don't need any more, thank you very much - I trim all the horse and donkey hooves every 4-6 weeks and have enough arthritis already).

_Nelly & Benjamin on wash day_

I also had the chance to retire some old harness-racing horses I felt sorry for, that I'd known since they were young and had helped to educate in my summer breaks. (I really loathe horse racing for all sorts of reasons, but enjoy working with horses and being around them, and going on adventures with them, and maybe doing a bit of "ballroom dancing" with horses that enjoy it.)

These adopted horses went from living in dry lots and stables with hand-fed hay and concentrates, most of them solitary, to living free-range in a herd at our place, with a WIWO shelter and rugging during wet, windy, cold conditions. It's been really lovely to see them enjoy their golden years here.

At various stages we had to put old horses down.

My mare (cancer, 32) - 27 in this photo:

...and on a special beach outing when she was 27:

Romeo (34, no molars left in lower jaw, geriatric), who spent his last five years with a free access pass to our garden, photo at age 33:

Another mare (28, pituitary tumour) who was the dam of the ex-harness horse I had adopted to ride, pictured here at our place in 2016 with her chocolate-coloured son Sunsmart (named for his habit of always finding shady spots to rest in from when he was little) and her full brother in the background:

This was Sunsmart and me in 2015, when we were still in the middle of building our farmhouse...

There is a photoessay of a ride with him through the Australian sclerophyll, with ecological commentary, from 2019. It's called _Aussie Trail Outing With Camera_ and can be found online via that title.

Late last year I had to put this horse down two days shy of his 25th birthday, after a three-year war with Cushings. He was put on medication after an early diagnosis to try to curtail the development of symptoms, and initially it seemed to work, but the following summer he rapidly started developing serious problems with electrolyte balance and thermoregulation and dropped weight rapidly. We tripled the medication but he kept falling down into a hole, and then, incredibly, after looking absolutely terrible, he recovered five months later, and even got back to 95% of his previous physical condition and levels of fitness. We were riding again with the dog and him chasing each other up the hills at rocket speeds. That lasted about a year - and then he went downhill again. This time he didn't recover and we called time for quality of life reasons - he'd had enough and it wasn't fair to keep trying and hoping.

I found out the morning after he died that Australian Indigenous icon David Gulpilil had died on the same day, also of chronic illness in advanced years. It was sad and yet strangely comforting that they went together. I wrote about that in an article called _The Kingfisher, the Horse, and being on Country_ which is easy to find by title online.

In the next post I will introduce Julian.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*JULIAN*








_Julian as a racehorse, before we adopted him_

Julian is the most recent horse we adopted, back in 2017, when a space became available because another horse had died. He had spent 16 or his 17 years so far in social isolation - being kept in a separate run from the time he was weaned from his mother. This is common practice with horses in race training and racing, because many owners are worried that they will hurt each other when playing together, and that this will cause down time. Additionally, Julian, like Sunsmart and his dam's full brother Chasseur (AKA "Mr Buzzy" - he buzzes, but that's another story), had all been racing stallions - and stallions tend to be a high injury risk unless run naturally in a herd of mares, so these were kept all their lives in separate 100m x 20m sand yards with double rows of electric wire between them, and they wore deep grooves into the ground adjacent to these fences from pacing up and down all day like caged tigers.

I had adopted Sunsmart back in 2009, after his retirement from race training, and re-trained him to saddle then. I agisted him in a paddock down the road from where we lived at the time, and gradually got him used to socialising with other horses. He had been gelded before adoption, since I wasn't planning to breed from him and as that makes re-socialising much less risky. He, like Julian, had been classed as a dangerous stallion - both of them used to run at people and try to bite them over their electric fences and stable doors, and would easily have put inexperienced people in hospital. This is him in the first year of his saddle education, on an outing to Albany Harbour, with Brett kindly taking photos.








_Sunsmart, 2009_

By the time we had bought our own place in 2010, I was able to socialise him with my mare, other adoptees, and our donkeys.

Julian came to us in November 2017, after we lost Sunsmart's mother. He had never, ever run in the same paddock as another horse after being taken off his mother, and never known what it was like to graze a pasture. Because he was entirely new to our place and our other horses were already social and also quite assertive, we were able to put him straight in with them the morning after his arrival on the late-night horse bus service, after observing everyone's friendly body language across both sides of the fence. (Note that there is one electric line across the resident horses who know it's there and won't accidentally touch it, and a parallel rope to keep Julian from getting too close to the others while they are checking each other out - and no low wires to accidentally tangle their feet in if they decide to kick.)
































This is all very civilised and "Hello, pleased to meet you!" - and in the last photo, Sunsmart is saying to Chasseur, "Hey, don't forget you're _my_ buddy!"

There is plenty of space here for horses to run, and plenty of grazing, which is important when introducing horses to each other - accidents can happen when the spaces they are locked into are too small and they can't retreat, and when they can't spend their time feeding naturally - horses are trickle grazers and if given the opportunity, spend around 16 hours a day eating. So based on the good body language meeting across the fence, we let him in with the others.

I'll give you a personal context for the next lot of photographs. I had grown up, in the second half of my childhood, on a horse stud where the very animals you are about to see in these photos getting to know each other as a herd, each spent over ten years in solitary yards, with double electric fences between them. They paced up and down their fence lines in frustration for large parts of their day, like deprived zoo animals in the olden days, before the building of more appropriate enclosures and the introduction of enrichment programmes and appropriate socialisation. It was a sight which always deeply saddened me, and there was nothing I could do about it - besides the bandaid measure of taking them out for walks or a bit of work when I had time.

And I can't see the photos you're about to see - ordinary photos of horses getting to know each other and running as a group - without also seeing in my mind's eye the many years they all walked up and down their respective fencelines with dull staring eyes and set faces, trying in vain to get away from their confinement.

After all these years. In these photos, Julian is 17, Chasseur 24, Sunsmart 21. Julian was alone for the longest, out of these three.







Between the last two snaps, I took a little film:






They still sound like stallions. Kind of like bad opera singers!









The acoustics on this clip are very good - listen closely, and you'll hear the typical early morning birdsong at our place in early summertime.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*SADDLE EDUCATING JULIAN*

Julian was 17 when he got here, which is not hugely old for a horse. Most horses live to between 25 and 30 years old if looked after properly, can often be ridden well into their 20s, and typically will senesce rapidly only in the last year or two of their lives.

He is very like Sunsmart in his work ethic - both horses always loved to do training; they are/were highly active, adventurous types with great curiosity about the world. That they were similar is partly explained by being half-brothers through the same sire; and both are grandsons of the famous Albatross, and look it.








_Albatross (If this photo doesn't show up in the browser, try here: https://harnessmuseum.com/sites/default/files/hof_images/Albatross-3.jpg)_

Here's a clip to show a bit of Sunsmart's nature - and you can see how much like Albatross he looks in type:






It was a total fluke getting that clip - we happened to be out with the camera when he started herding the cattle (a stallion behaviour, and he's just enjoying playing here, not being aggressive). It's so funny how the horse changed course and came up to us to see what we were doing, at the end of the clip!

One of Julian:








...and one of Sunsmart and Julian in the paddock together in 2019:

I did actually begin to work with Julian not long after he got to our place, because he showed such an interest when he saw me working with and riding Sunsmart. So here's some photos of us taking him for walks on the lead in 2019, to a neighbour's bush-and-pasture block where we have permission to walk and ride.


A really important part of preparing a horse for trail riding is to get them used to the area you are going to start off taking them out into under saddle. That way, they don't have to worry about new and scary surroundings at the same time as they're getting used to being ridden. Because horses are a bit like this:








Thelwell always drew horses and their reactions so well!









Julian, like Sunsmart, can turn on a thread - I've seen both spin around 180 degrees in mid-air if startled and then go racing off in the other direction. I've even ridden these mid-air turns and attempted getaways when I was first getting Sunsmart on trails and he encountered scary monsters, which six months later stopped bothering him, but it was an interesting six months...

Julian is remarkably unflappable about wildlife appearing suddenly in the bushes; but he's quite sensitive to unexpected noises, so we're still working on that.

In the next photo I was free-walking him back on our place. A horse that knows you well will stay with you unless it gets startled.

So the early walks all went remarkably well, and Julian enjoyed getting out and exploring the world with us. But then, Sunsmart had his first major Cushings crisis, and I decided to enjoy whatever time I had left with him by focusing on spending as much time as I could with him, so Julian's training took a back seat.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*JULIAN'S LAP OF HONOUR*

This is an abridged version of what I wrote on my main open journal earlier this year.

*February 13, 2022*

It’s been over two months since my long-time equine friend Sunsmart died.

My husband Brett and I are both at the tail end of two and a half weeks’ leave. This morning I finished the _Sandman_ story – I read the last volume of ten; Brett gave me the first one when the writing was on the wall for my poor horse, back in October. These were exactly the right kinds of stories and the right kind of artwork to help get me through this time – the most imaginative, profound and educational graphic novel I’ve ever read (and there was formidable competition in _Maus_). Here are some taster panels from the last volume, _The Wake_.

































from View Comics Online

The girl in the red dress is Death, one of the most lovely characters ever invented. She’s no Grim Reaper, she is more like a social worker and a friend in need, and so utterly kind (except when her brother Dream occasionally needs his backside kicked to spur him into a change of perspective, or when another sibling, Desire, goes way too far in their characteristically low standards of conduct).

I commend this ten-volume work to anyone who would like a literary companion for some serious thinking, or who needs solace in times of grief. The conclusion to this story was so beautiful that I found myself with the energy and the impetus this morning to do something symbolic and ceremonial of my own.

The last time I led a horse up our bush track it was to put that horse down, and today, for very much _Sandman_ reasons I decided we were going to do a lap of honour with his half-brother (same sire) wearing the deceased horse’s kit, just because that itself seemed fitting and something that needed to be done.

_Sunsmart and Julian grazing together in 2019, half-brothers through the paternal side, and grandsons of the famous Albatross._

The aftermath of Sunsmart’s death resulted in this kind of partial paralysis for me that meant I just could not bring myself to deal with anything that had belonged to the horse. His useless tablets continued to lie in the shelf above the feed bins while I loathed their pink presence and all that had meant. His saddle and bridle had been gathering dust since August last year, before he went downhill, because that was when the entire landscape became too saturated from a record wet winter that also killed lots of trees to be able to continue riding – except perhaps on a giant seahorse. Several sets of old horseshoes and hoof boots past and present continued to sit in the shed and attic while I practiced selective blindness in their presence.

This morning I put a dozen carrots in the pockets of my cargo pants and went out to the shed. I threw a set of ancient, long-decayed EzyBoots into the garbage bag a decade after their purchase – we’d gone onto Renegades after finding them wanting, not to mention constantly breaking. His first worn-out set of those was kept in the attic for parts; his new set sat on the shelf near the bridles still. I don’t have a horse they will fit but decided I’m keeping them anyway.

Next I ripped a cobweb-infested saddle blanket off Sunsmart’s Ascot Roma All-Purpose, a specialist saddle for horses built like beer barrels. I threw it on the ground together with the part-used pill packet, to deal with later. I’d slid out and hung up the sheepskin half-pad I’d bought last winter to give the horse more padding around his backline, thinning from a combination of Cushings and lack of consistent riding in the winter weather. I don’t need it for this horse; I dug around for my deceased Arabian mare’s erstwhile saddle blanket in a drum because it was comparatively clean. I dusted saddle and bridle off as best I could – mental note that a thorough clean and oil is urgently needed – and hauled them and the grooming kit out to the tie rail. Then I set off with a lead rope and Sunsmart’s red “for best” halter with the gold catches to collect Julian from under the horses’ favourite shade tree.

It was already warm, with the UV beating down; I was in my uninspiring but practical farm hat and oversized long-sleeved collared linen shirt for sun protection. I wasn’t expecting to take any photos except of the tacked-up horse at the tie rail, but Brett thought it was a wonderful idea to have Julian do a lap of honour in Sunsmart’s riding gear and wanted to come along, which is how we did get some more photos out there while I was busy with the horse.

It took me a while to groom off all the dust; meanwhile Brett brushed Chasseur, who is crazy about “scratchies” and bugs anyone with a brush to pleeeeeease attend to him. He’ll stand on your feet if you’re not careful, sidling up close hoping you will get the message; then he’ll crane his neck and wiggle his lips in the biggest display of horse ecstasy I’ve ever seen in that category. We really should film it and add it to this post…

Sunsmart’s bridle needed letting out several holes; Julian has a longer head. He was a bit puzzled about the port-mouthed Spanish snaffle and chin chain, having mostly been driven in jointed snaffles of some type or another, but I’m not riding a horse with as much rocket power as Sunsmart or Julian without proper brakes, plus it’s gentle and comfortable for riding, where I wish the horse to think differently to his driving days too and to have a different head carriage. Harness-racing horses have this uncanny ability to stick their face into the sky and take off at top speed when they want to run, because that’s exactly what they do when racing. I’m half a century old and wish to avoid ending up in hospital in smithereens.

This bridle is in fact over 40 years old and came with Sunsmart’s great-grandmother. It originally had a blue and white checked headband which we replaced with this blue-striped one four decades ago. I had a nice new black-and-white bridle for Sunsmart for most of his riding career, but two years ago, coming back from a ride, he took fright at something while I untacked him and stepped into the reins before running off dragging the already-removed bridle, which was torn to pieces by the time I caught him. So I patched something together from old bits and pieces instead, after that.

Julian has had an old saddle on him a couple of times when I was doing preliminaries with him several years ago, but I’d never led him around in one and never put the “good saddle” on him before. Sunsmart’s fit was always going to be a reasonable fit for him; I may tinker around the edges a bit down the track, and have a re-fit done if it turns out necessary.


Typical for Nelly that she’s always hanging around when there’s something going on. I usually have donkeys hanging off me when I’m foot trimming too. They’re highly curious and very sociable, and seem to be into giving peer support to their friends. Nelly is still wearing a veil because she has no pigmentation around the eyes and gets burnt easily. While we don’t need the veils for flies anymore now the dung beetles have moved in for the summer, they are still really good UV protection for animals lacking in skin pigmentation, or to prevent long-term eye damage from UV, which is why our equines wear veils for most of spring and summer, excepting overcast or rainy days where they do prefer a break from them.

Julian tends to get a bit more rotund than ideal over spring when the grazing is good. I did restrict pasture for a while and was considering muzzling him. Work would certainly help him with that; also, he actually enjoys it. He’s got a work ethic and a fondness for adventure like Sunsmart had.

As we set off today, Brett was opening gates in front of us so I could concentrate entirely on the horse and his initial reactions to moving around with a riding saddle on him. If they’re going to be jumpy, this will be the time. Considering I’ve done nothing with him in that line for years, he was remarkable – just a _tiny_ bit hesitant and nervy for not even half a minute, that an onlooker would have had to be looking for to notice – but then I was his “babysitter” for his harness training when he was young, as well, so I guess that confidence role goes back forever for him. Next time it will be “old hat” from the start to carry a saddle around.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

And then we had gone around the house to the trail head behind it, just like I had done so many times with Sunsmart, including that one last time to end his life. And while Julian has been on this bush trail free-ranging with his friends, and quite a few times when we took him on walks with us years ago, today he was the first horse to walk there with me since Sunsmart the day he died.

_Sunsmart heading down the trail behind the house in 2019 with Jess and visiting dog Max
_
We walked the track, with Brett up ahead and the entire equine entourage following us in single-file: His companion horse and five eager donkeys, who all decided to tag along. Because he is the herd boss, nobody crowded him or tried to overtake him. It was quite humorous looking behind us at the procession of assorted long-ears and the big lanky chestnut horse in the middle of them making his usual conversational-sounding buzzing noises.

The long-ears have a more sedate walking pace than ex-racers, and got left behind eventually. When we got to the south boundary, Chasseur decided he was going back to the donkeys and kindly excused himself. Brett, Jess, Julian and yours truly continued our loop by turning left at the swamp track, where Brett got the camera out.


As you can see, Julian isn’t fazed if the rest of the herd suddenly deserts him out on walks with us, as has happened before. Like Sunsmart, he’s very independent and self-reliant; and he’s had a lot of solo track sessions as a harness horse.

Horses like this are “been there, done that” when it comes to strange equipment attached to their persons; the main issue with turning them into trail horses is usually to get them used to being in a natural environment with wildlife jumping out at them, which bothered Sunsmart more initially than it ever did Julian.

Because I left off the chest rope today for simplicity, Julian accidentally stepped into the reins when sniffing the ground at one point, which broke their buckle. THAT is one reason this little rope is part of my standard riding equipment – it prevents that completely as it keeps the reins from dangling when the horse has the head on the ground, which they may frequently do to check out things on the ground and convenient snacks when I’m dismounted between gates etc. Oh well, I can probably fix it; today I just knotted them back together.

We met the new weanling calves near the entrance to the Middle Meadow, lying in the shade of a paperbark tree, which got a raised eyebrow from Julian – he knows who they are, but he’s never seen them _there_ before. Horses react to things being different from what’s usual to them – and likewise, we’d had some raised eyebrows at a fallen tree which wasn’t there last time Julian did this loop. That’s always an easy fix: I go ahead of the horse and touch the fallen tree, sit on it, and let him come up to me to check it out when he’s ready. Julian isn’t particularly jumpy – occasionally he’ll leap in surprise, but mostly it’s just raised eyebrows, hesitation and the odd snort, and easily fixed by reassurance.

The Middle Meadow still has green feed in it mid-summer, so I’m happy the calves found it – they’re an independent bunch, not always following the older steers around but instead usually doing their own thing. We left them to it and made our way through knee-deep reeds and dead annual grasses. When we got to a relatively clear bit, I started walking Julian in a circle, and Brett again got the camera out.



You can see he’s an active horse keen to run. Racehorses don’t muck around as a breed, they’re the opposite of plodders. Harness racers need a fair bit of groundwork with circles and tight turns when you are training them for riding – their previous work was 99% straight lines and gradual turns. Also halting and standing still, and rein-back.

He’s a super alert horse. Normal riding breeds tend to only look like this when they’re in a strange environment or they’re checking out something strange in the distance. But he’s in a familiar area where he grazes frequently, in this photo, and he’s not worried, just switched on and curious about all sorts of things. He’s the kind of horse who finds himself interesting things to go look at, when he’s free ranging – he enjoys adventures and checking things out. It was a particular delight to adopt him into free-range herd life back in 2017, from solo yarding in the same old yard for years in his previous home, because of that.


Now that’s a super photo of a typical interaction between an alpha dog and an alpha horse. Our stock dog thinks she’s the boss of every animal on the place, but horses like Julian and Sunsmart beg to differ. His body language is saying, “I’m not afraid of you and if you keep this up you will feel my teeth and hooves.” Sunsmart made a big point of telling Jess this when we first got her and started taking her on rides in 2013. He’d go stomping towards her if she didn’t back off quickly. As time passed, they became friends of sorts and toned down their displays, preferring to race each other when the opportunity arose. This scene reminded me so much of her early days with Sunsmart.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Julian is fun to work with because he’s thoughtful, adventurous, independent, generally sensible, quick to learn and interested in doing “extra projects” on top of his herd life. This maybe, maybe not one-off lap of honour for his half brother was also such an enjoyable work session that I now find myself keen to repeat it – when before I couldn’t face the idea of ever saddle educating and riding again.

You can’t replace a four-legged friend who has died, but you can be friends and co-adventurers on fresh terms with another four-legs. Every horse is a different universe, even if you can see similarities and parallels that recall another horse for you. Julian has striking physical and character traits in common with his deceased half-brother Sunsmart, his deceased uncle Romeo, his deceased sire The Sunbird Hanover, his deceased dam Juliet, and his famous deceased grandsire Albatross (in whose case I can see it from 1970s film footage). He’s streaks of each of those, and also his own thing.

Like in the _Sandman_ cartoons, the new Dream of the Endless has overlap with the old, but is definitely his own thing.








from Read Comics Online

We walked into the main pasture, where we met Ben and Nelly coming back from their outing. Nelly doesn’t like losing sight of Julian and was happy to see him. I took the saddle and bridle off Julian there in the field and let him join his friends. He bid me a friendly goodbye before walking away to graze, and we carried the riding gear back to the shed.

When it was stowed, this was the view from the garden:

They’re a social bunch, and Julian tends to follow me around after I’ve worked with him and be extra affectionate. He seemed to enjoy the outing – just as in past outings, before Sunsmart’s diagnosis. He’s tagged along with Brett and me before on dog walks, of his own accord, and sometimes with Sunsmart when I rode him. He’s not waiting for treats, this is just what he does. When he first came to live with us, he often left the herd to follow me around as I was doing maintenance work out in the paddocks – he’s curious and sociable. You can show him tools and he will sniff them and watch what you’re doing with them. While none of this bunch say no to treats, they are just very social and interested in what we do. The donkeys often tag along when we are showing visitors around the nature reserve on eco-tours, which has resulted in amusement and lovely photos for guests to take home.



Julian gets on well with the others in the herd, but is definitely the boss and occasionally asserts this fact. Here he’s snake-facing Nelly and Ben to say, “Back off, this is my party.”

Seconds later, butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth.


And then Julian’s horse friend re-joined the others in the meadow, after our herd outing went its various ways at the halfway mark.


Julian is STILL interested in what I’m up to, here. I’m not trying to attract his attention. It’s just what he does. Only when I turned my back did he go off to graze – and I surreptitiously turned back around to take two more photos.


Nice animal. Well, aren’t they all, at our place anyway. And a good lap of honour for the friend we lost, which has somehow made the loss a little easier.









_The Wake_ frontispiece by Michael Zulli


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*ANOTHER TRAINING SESSION

May 6, 2022*

After several weeks of to-do lists, bad weather and guests, we had a lovely sunny autumn day and I decided two things:

1) I was doing a training session with Julian

2) This weekend, I'm getting on the horse, because this is getting ridiculous. This is the longest lead-up I've ever had on riding a horse, and that includes the Arabian yearling I trained entirely from scratch and on my own starting when I was 11, with the help of the following book and its three companion volumes: Horse Control- The Young Horse by Tom Roberts (9780959941319) | Books On Horses Australia

Here's a photo of us when she was two and I was 12. And yes, that's the grey mare in my earlier posts, when she was growing up.








It's 37 years since I first got on this mare's back; and I've re-trained and saddle educated half a dozen horses since. So it's time I pulled myself together and got on with it.

So today was the dress rehearsal for actually getting on his back. I brushed him, tacked him up, and took him for a walk. He is herd leader and all the other equines were following him in single file as we headed out onto the bush tracks today. I wish I'd had a camera on me because it was hilarious. One horse, five donkeys all walking behind him one after the other.

This is an earlier photo which gives a small approximation of what this looks like - but this photo only caught the horse and the first two donkeys of the procession...

Sadly I couldn't find any decent horse and donkey emojis, but I will use substitute animals to give you a pictorial idea of what our procession looked like:

🐘 🐘 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐

The photo above does show the same route we embarked upon today - up out of the valley floor, onto the western ridge and into the forest there, on our western boundary track. And then the donkeys decided to make mayhem! Something bothered them - it may have been our naughty stock dog, or a bot fly - and they began to race around and bray like full-on trumpet practice, running hither and yon and whizzing past the horse and me, then whizzing by us again in the other direction.

If you have a green horse, this is exactly the sort of thing that can cause disaster.








But Julian isn't a green horse; he's seen and done lots of things and little fazes him - sudden strange noises are one of the few things that can still startle him into leaping about like a kangaroo. So he and I had a good look at the donkey mayhem, and then continued walking along the track, away from them. Pretty soon the donkeys settled down and decided to start following us again, in single file. Very hilarious. At this stage we had lost the other horse, who'd gone back to the pasture, and the procession looked like this:

🐘 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐 🐐

Mary Lou and Sparkle were at the rear of the procession, Mary Lou having waited for her blind friend to work out what was going on. She never leaves Sparkle alone; she's like her personal seeing-eye donkey.

We turned the corner at the south boundary, descended the ridge, and then parted company with the donkeys, who decided to continue towards the swamp track. We took the main sand track home, and now I let the stirrups dangle down for the first time since we began the saddle education process, to get Julian used to having his sides bumped in case a rider loses a stirrup. I also started slapping the saddle gently with my hand to make strange unexpected noises, while talking to him; at first he startled, then he settled down and wasn't bothered anymore.

We did some trotting and transitioning back down to a walk, rinse and repeat half a dozen times - this time with the stirrups really flying about from the motion. All went well and there were no unexpected lift-offs or attempted rocketing into the distance. I have to say, he's a total pro at going into a trot the moment you ask, and then back to a walk likewise. Always very good to have that communication established from the ground, before you get on a horse's back. He also enjoys being told how clever he is.

Back at the tie rail, I decided to do unusual things before taking his saddle off. I pulled on the stirrups, and bounced up and down next to him, gently at first, more wildly later, all the while having a conversation with him about all this stuff I was doing. He looked attentively at what I was doing, and decided it didn't bother him.

I took off the saddle, let him have a good sniff of it all over, put it away, and made a fuss of him before letting him go graze with his friends. Once again, he wasn't in a hurry to leave, and he continued to stick around and look at what I was doing, when finishing up chores.

It all bodes well for this weekend. We're ready to go.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*ON HORSE MONOMANIA*

_*Since She Started To Ride*
by Jonathan Richman

She's got a brown suntan startin' just above her collar
Her lower arms they're brown, but the rest is kinda pale
She'd buy betadine if she only had a dollar
And she'd live out in the pasture if she only had a tail

And no I don't see her much since she started with horses
No I don't see her much since she started to ride

Well her jeans they get like a wet saddle blanket
And her boots are like you'd figure
And her car is full of hay
Horses, humans: if she had to rank it
You'd bet on they that canter
And them that need fly spray

And you see I don't see her much since she started with horses
No I don't see her much since she started to ride

Go boys, tell 'em all about it!

Canter and fender, barrel and mane
Don't see her much since she started to train
Cannon bone, knee bone, forearm and arm
I don't see her much when she heads for the barn

And she's so satisfied when she's riding and trainin'
She must just love that smell of the barn i would say
She's so satisfied when she's groomin' and grainin'
And she's tired in the evening and she's gone in the day

And no I don't see her much since she started with horses
No I don't see her much since she started to ride_


A horse song sent to me by a reader. Sound familiar?

...and I've seen too many examples of people who are like this to want to be that way myself, starting in childhood. I've been around horse forums since 2014, and saw a lot of horse monomania - people dedicating their entire lives and finances to horse pursuits and some seemingly making it into a kind of religion or drug or existential escape - and then others who, like me, think there are too many fascinating and important things about life to embody that kind of tunnel vision, and who don't want their dearest human relationships to run second fiddle to their recreational interests.

Even as a child in Europe, I remember how my parents chided me because sometimes I did not want to go to the barn with them - I remember one time in particular when I was around 10, and at a friend's place. She was teaching me to braid bracelets using a special technique that made the braid very round, not the usual three-strand plaiting. Bracelets like this:








I loved this friend and spending time with her, and we were in the middle of learning something, so I wasn't just going to drop everything and go tend to the family's horses in the middle of all of that. It was beginning to take away from my friendships. Sometimes I would take this friend to the barn, and pop her on the mare that became Sunsmart's great-grandmother bareback, and pretend to be Native Americans with her, escaping the cowboys with our superior horse skills and connection to nature. But even though I liked horses, I didn't let that get in the way of everything else even back then.

Here's a photo of Dame du Buisson (Sunsmart's great-grandmother and Chasseur's grandmother), when I was learning to jump around that same time. Sadly I have no photos of my friend on her bareback.








If you look at the bridle, it's the same on I had on Julian for his Lap of Honour. Just here, it's got a different bit strapped to it - a soft padded hackamore, which is actually bitless, and good for learning to jump and balance because you can't hurt the horse's mouth with it.

The other horse we had loved jumping, and this is the day I dared myself to jump the highest obstacle I'd ever done on horseback:








I had far better balance on the second try - but let the reins go too slack. These things take time.

I remember being really nervous about the size of this jump, it seemed like we were jumping Mt Everest but of course, it was only about 1m.








My family's life was so obsessively revolving around horses that it ended up consuming nearly all our time, after they decided to relocate to Australia and breed and race horses. I didn't think that was much fun at all, and Sunsmart's great-grandmother died because they decided to do that - because they had to have a foal from her, because she had race winning progeny in Europe - even though she'd been sold by the breeder as a child's riding horse, due to her wonderful disposition and because the birth of her fifth foal had damaged her. There was veterinary advice never to breed her again as the risk was too high. I was also mortified that the mare - my best buddy - was suddenly taken off me after I'd spent two happy years going all over the countryside with her. I missed the birth of her sixth foal by five hours because I was on middle school camp, but came home in time to have her die in my arms from post-partum haemorrhage. She was on the ground with her face in my lap sighing and bleeding out and there was nothing anyone could do. It broke my heart. It's one reason I adopted some of her progeny.

Pain like that shapes you. That horse was like my adoptive mother, and I was like an orphan - I never had a warm relationship with my own mother, and grew up in a very dysfunctional and violent family. I was often sad, and this mare had come along in my life, just separated from her previous foal, and she and I filled vacuums in each other. She lavished me with care and affection and would slow down if I lost my balance riding her, so that I could safely ride her bareback anywhere, on my own. She would lower her head so I could slide across her neck and then gradually raise is so I could slide from that onto her back, so I could get on the 16hh mare from the ground - and that was her idea, she showed it to me. I read the story of Mowgli and could relate - because animals filled the yawning chasm for me that the unhappy family life produced.

I'm giving back to this mare even today, with looking after her grandson who looks so much like her and is nearly at the end of his life too, at 29 later this year and starting to lose teeth. I will still be giving back to her when he is no longer, just by how I treat animals. She taught me well.

But to get back to the song lyrics - I know so many horse people in Australia who make everything revolve around horses; who put up palatial buildings for them and lock them into those when they'd rather roam free, while themselves living in little cardboard boxes, and when we bought this land, I swore never to do it like this, and never to let my relationship with my animals degrade my relationship with my spouse. So they got the best free-range social setup I could make them, and we built a very solid and comfortable eco-friendly house for ourselves - as befits _Equus caballus_ and _Hom'o_ allegedly _sapiens_, respectively.

The horses can be happy without our constant attention, because they can roam and graze and socialise and explore 62 hectares at will - they aren't locked into a building or small yard awaiting our pleasure. They have an independent, full life of their own and go on adventures as a group, with the donkeys, all around the farm tracks, and when the winter fronts come in and the Roaring Forties start to blow, they are warm and dry in turnout rugs and don't even bother using their WIWO shelter, which the donkeys will go stand in when it rains.

We attend to them twice a day - in the morning to let them out of their 4 hectare nighttime space into the rest of the property if they want to go on adventures, and in the evening at bucket o'clock. When I was riding, that was about every second day. Hoof trimming and general health care when required. The rest of the time we're doing other things. Of course, if I'm going around the farm, I often have little meet-ups that look like this:

Brett says I'm frequently surrounded by a cloud of animals. They just like to come say hello. Even the cattle do it. Maybe I have some kind of special fairy dust on me from being mothered by a mare when I was a pre-teen.

But my husband knows that if he were ever to become unhappy living where we do, I would decide for our happiness as a couple, above anything else. I do not have to do this forever and it does not have to interfere with our other life goals and interests. And he's definitely my favourite animal. ♥


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*THE EAGLE HAS LANDED? QUICK SADDLE TRAINING UPDATE

May 7, 2022*

Well, just reporting I've finally sat on the back of that horse. Got on and off him twice this afternoon and that's enough for one session. But wouldn't you just know it, the second time I got on him, a huge branch came down with an almighty crash in the forest behind us and startled him, so he got very toey because unexpected noises are his prime "scary monster" - danced around a bit, and I reassured him and slid back off him to calm him down.

All this was at the tie rail, which is where I've done all the first mounts on ex-harness racers so far. In contrast, with my Arabian mare, on January 26, 1985, I just spontaneously got on her back after a lungeing session with the saddle on one day, and rode her home from the field where I'd worked with her. Just like that, because it felt right, and she acted as if she'd been a riding horse all her life.

With ex-harness racers, I've never bothered lungeing - they've got equivalent preliminary work with harness training and are already mature and ready to work. They're used to having all kinds of gear on them and pulling a cart, now they just have to get used to the idea of carrying someone on their back. So with each of the half-dozen harness horses, I've done some leading them around with a riding saddle, and making noise with the saddle, dangling stirrups around their ribcages, leaning up against them, jumping up and down next to them, pulling on the stirrups, putting weight in the stirrup with a foot, standing up in the stirrup leaning against the horse, etc, and if that's all OK, you just get on the horse and then get off again almost immediately, before anything untoward can happen. Go chat to the horse, say how clever they are, etc, rinse and repeat, end lesson.

Next time, if you get on and the horse seems unperturbed, you get a competent horse handler to lead-line you away from the tie rail at the walk - or alternatively, you lead-line your horse while someone else is the saddle monkey. Just walk for five minutes, and if the horse is cool, end lesson, come back and do more another day. By day two usually the leader unclips the horse and rider within a minute, and they continue on a track they know well on their own - once around, then back home.

Currently, the only person available who's really skilled at controlling horses from the ground is me - Brett isn't a horse person and doesn't know how to anticipate reactions instantly based on body language, and forestall a problem before it really snowballs. I can counteract horses running backwards, rearing, etc, he can't. So it would actually be better if I could get someone else to volunteer to sit on him for the first lead-line session, because controlling that horse from the ground is so important for that step. We'll see how we'll solve that one. Brett volunteered to monkey up today, but has only been on two rides in his life, so he didn't really get much further than standing up in one stirrup wondering what to do with his other leg, so I just ended up getting on myself instead. It's been a while since he was on a horse!

Brett's first horse ride had been back in 2008, when I lead-lined him through the countryside on my Arabian mare for a short scenic ride. At that time, he told me that being on the back of a horse feels "like being drunk and staggering around but without the euphoria" and he expressed no enthusiasm for ever doing it again, which I respected.

However, at Hallowe'en 2010 he came home with a Nazgul costume, and as a result got coaxed onto Sunsmart for a photo session - because you can't really be a Nazgul without a horse...

So here is Brett's second-ever horse ride - and the last one to date:









This is the same photo after Brett photoshopped Middle Earth into it:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*MORE TRAINING WALKABOUTS

May 11, 2022*

Monday and today I took Julian around for more training walks in full regalia, with the stirrups down. We practiced halt, walk-on, trot-on, transition back to walk. All flawless - the horse isn't just cooperative, he's really interested in what we are doing. Of course, I don't just hold out a hoop and say to him, "This high!' - like some kind of taskmaster who believes the horse is somehow my inferior and beholden to obey. My approach to that is more like dancing with a partner. I respect the horse, ask nicely, practice with him. Even a horse knows when you don't take him for granted, and you don't think you are entitled to ask him to do things for you.

The other thing we've been practicing is standing still at intervals along our walk around the bush tracks, while I do various things like hold the reins above his withers as if to get on his back, put my foot in the stirrup, put weight in the stirrup, jump up and down next to him, move around and do the same thing on the other side, etc. All while he is standing still, and using the old Tom Roberts techniques for getting him to stand still, no stress, no hurry. Here's an except of what that author had to say about the matter of preparing to mount a horse you are saddle training, which I hadn't read in 20 years, but which was my manual for educating my mare from yearling up starting when I was 11:

















Excerpt from _The Young Horse_ by Tom Roberts, Griffin Press, 1977


It's interesting to me that many horse people seem to interpret "teaching a lesson in obedience" as an invitation to get rough with a horse, "show him who's boss," attempt to scare the horse and/of inflict pain. I think that's about the psychology of the human beings who do such things, and it is my personal observation that people who treat horses with contempt also treat humans with contempt.

I also think JK Rowling wrote a nice metaphor about all of this with the hippogriffs and the code of conduct for working with them - and what happened when arrogant people handled them. In the horse world, sadly many riding breeds are a bit like ISA Brown hens - bred for docility and low on IQ and spirit, and many of those can be bullied into submission. The intelligent, spirited horses will be the ones that will be trouble for human bullies - because you need to treat them with respect and kindness.

Anyway, Tom Roberts was an instructor of riders and trainer of horses from the time he was 16, starting in the British army. He was self-taught and I've never found any kind of instruction books on horse handling, training and riding anywhere near as useful as his four slim volumes. He always takes great care to present the horse's point of view, and to emphasise good communication with the horse and how to achieve it. It's not just that the horse has to learn to read and understand us, it's also that we must learn to read and understand the horse.

So re-reading what he had to say about mounting, I saw how much more I could do than I had already to prepare Julian for a smooth transition to ridden work, given that I won't be working with an experienced horse handler on the ground, or a competent rider who can work with me. I decided on the weekend this is going to be a mostly solo effort again, as it was with my Arabian mare back in the 80s; on balance I don't think there is anything to be gained by having an inexperienced handler or rider helping out - too many variables. Besides, I already sat on him briefly twice on Saturday, and all that was fine, the only reason he got toey the second time is because a branch came crashing down near us, and even that didn't turn into a disaster - he settled a bit and then I slid off again.

My plan basically is to keep on taking him for these walks and to continue to go further and further each time, right up to getting on and straight back off again at the halt, then keep walking him on the reins, halt again, rinse and repeat, and start doing things like waving my arms and swinging my legs while in the saddle (you must never do this kind of thing suddenly because horses startle at sudden movement unless they are habituated to it case by case), until eventually I will ask him to move forward a few steps with me on his back, when the whole thing feels right.

And it will - he's a very sensible, very calm horse the majority of the time. Today he was really brilliant working with me, very relaxed and happy to dawdle to wait for two donkeys who were accompanying us. He's actually the very opposite of a plodder, which is why this is a big deal - the hardest thing to do with horses who love to move, and move fast, like this horse and all the horses I've saddle educated, is to get them to relax and do things slowly, instead of go haring off for fun. We can start doing _that_ later, after we've learnt the relaxed, slow mode of operating and it's become a permanent part of the repertoire.






This clip from 2012 shows how horses that aren't plodders move around at liberty, even when quite old. This was, in order of appearance, Romeo (then 28), Sunsmart (then 16, and that was his general-moving-around trot, not his race trot - Julian is the same), and my Arabian mare Snowstorm (then 31).

One new thing we did today, just to keep things interesting, is to "bush-bash" along a kangaroo track. It's the first time I've taken Julian off the vehicle tracks, so that was a novel experience for him. Sunsmart absolutely loved going on animal trails; maybe his half-brother will develop a taste for that as well.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*TRAINING SESSION ON SUNNY AUTUMN DAY

May 16, 2022*

Today is a me-day to make up for the weekend. We spent most of Saturday shopping for various items, which is not what I would describe as fun - the best part of it was doing a 45 minute high-impact hike on Mt Melville, with lots of steep uphill-downhills and incredible views, including of town.








I can't believe so many people love shopping. The only kind of shopping we love is looking at books and stationery. Everything else is a necessary evil, to be done as efficiently as possible.

By the time we got home late afternoon on Saturday, we were useless and after putting everything away, feeding the animals and feeding ourselves, we vegetated in bed reading online newspapers etc for the entire evening, to decompress. The following day we had to clean the house top to bottom and prepare various things because guests were due in by afternoon - so that ended up another mostly-work day. I'm delighted to say that the guests are lovely - they are outdoorsy self-described refugees from the politics in America, hail from Portland, Oregon, are the same age as us, in equally good shape (mutual remarks exchanged because it's not usual for people to look after themselves well physically), and we all had a ton of fun around the dinner table last night.

The menu - tacos, which tend to look like this at our place - we've dispensed at decorating the shells with salad, and instead present everything on a mountain of salad...



The guests also had zucchini and lemon soup for first course (we'd had it for lunch), and we all had freshly made apple and cherry brioche pockets for dessert - the apples having come off the tree the same time the guests had arrived (and the cherries in summer - we freeze lots). Super conversation around the table and then a replete retirement of everyone in our respective food comas.

This morning was finally sunny, after three days of rain and dark clouds. I made eggy pancakes with a berry/citrus/brandy sauce for all of us, then Brett went off to work and our guests to hike Mt Hallowell in Denmark on our recommendation. (Fabulous hike, wonderful tall Karri forests, caves, granite monadnocks, breathtaking coastal views - we did that hike again for my 50th and it's worth looking at the photos in our hiking diary - scroll down to "Mt Hallowell Circuit" and you will also be rewarded with a gravitationally rearranged birthday cake.)

And then I had the day to myself. Did a couple of chores, some reading and eating, and after morning tea, went out and did another training session with Julian. I really will need to take a camera with me in future if I'm going to write this up. Meanwhile, I have two clips from about a year ago. The first is Julian at liberty.






The second was from my birthday last year, when Brett caught me going for a bareback loop with Sunsmart, who was well and happy and in remission from the Cushings that sadly took his life later that same year.






So that's why I am now saddle training Julian. He's a lovely horse, a younger half-brother to Sunsmart, and I now have time to work with him.

Today I tried out a bitless bridle on Julian, which I'd bought to give beginners lessons on Sunsmart - while riders first develop balance, they shouldn't, in my view, have a bit. One reason for the gear change is that Sunsmart's "normal" bridle that the now-deceased horse is wearing in the clip above is causing discomfort behind Julian's ears. It's a common problem these days that standard browbands are too short for horses with deep foreheads, and I'm actually unable to purchase anything longer, I'd have to have something especially made. The problem when a browband is too short is that when horses turn their ears backwards to listen to something you're saying or to something else behind them, the ear cartilage can chafe against the poll strap of the bridle (which sits behind the ears). Julian doesn't have enough room in the old riding bridle, and Sunsmart only had barely enough.

The poll strap on the bitless bridle is narrower, rounded in back, and much softer than the 40-year-old bridle. When I tried it on him today, it was very comfortable for him - so after the session, I decided to convert it from cross-under to simple sidepull. This means I have to sew a buckle to a strap I've repurposed from elsewhere to make a proper throat latch - between that and superglue I should muddle along. I promise I'll take pictures if I'm going to keep this up.

Today we enjoyed the lovely crisp and sunny weather, with a long walk around the valley floor. We practiced stop-starting, standing still while I was heaving myself up above the saddle with one leg in the stirrup (I swear he's thinking, "Stop it and just sit on my back already!" - as I did for the first time last weekend at the tie rail with Brett present), transition to trot and back to walk. Leading him off a bitless for this, I noticed he was only trotting, his beautiful big floaty ground-covering trot that I can't keep up with at the speeds he is capable of doing at that gait (harness racers typically sprint at 48km/h - which is a mile in 2 minutes - and that's at a square gait, i.e. trot or pace; they can gallop even faster). With a bit and working off the ground, half the time he paces, half the time he trots.

Which is to be expected - when he harness raced, he was a pacer (he won his fastest race in 1:59:04 for the mile) - so although he's "ambidextrous" in the paddock, like another horse I rode in my 20s called Chip (whom I trail rode and even did an endurance ride on in-between regular metropolitan assessment harness engagements at Gloucester Park with his owner), the moment you put a bit in his mouth he associates it with his racing days and working at the pace. So with these horses, when re-training to saddle, you teach them different cues for trot and pace and then, as they say, Bob's your uncle - and I don't know why so many people seem to have such difficulty with that when re-training a harness racing horse. They're forever complaining they can't get them to trot. It's all in your communication with the horse and the cues you set up to distinguish between the two. People like that typically think the horse is stupid, but in those scenarios it's always the person.

I'm actually really looking forward to riding this one now. He's quite unflappable with his groundwork - the dog typically races circles around him while I'm doing mounting exercises (see also in the above clip with Sunsmart), because she is so excited about the idea of the horse going faster and she knows it won't do that while I'm on the ground.







And today Nelly and Ben turned up on the bush tracks five minutes after we started our work - decided to catch up with us, and hung around observing.








_Nelly & Ben - intrepid adventurers - their story here_

After training, everyone else then present wanted me to brush them. Chasseur AKA Mr Buzzy queued up and got lucky - wiggled his nose ecstatically at the thorough job he got. Then Nelly and Ben and Don Quixote began sidling in and getting turns. Julian wasn't bothered - like Sunsmart, he's ticklish.

Not a bad way to spend a good chunk of a day off in lieu. I was going to garden this afternoon but tomorrow is another day; tonight I'm making calzones for us all and still ruminating on what will be for dessert...

...and just randomly, a clip with dog antics. Jess and us at a hiking hut, with Brett's inimitable commentary... 






That is one crazy dog - Julian has come to terms with it I think...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FIRST RIDE ON JULIAN

May 30, 2022*

We had planned on doing this before, but the weather, lack of energy and other projects had interfered. However, after a weekend of plastering all Saturday and recuperating all Sunday, we were able to do the first riding session this morning! Brett has a late start on Mondays and doesn't have to leave here until 9am.

So we had breakfast and then I tacked up Julian and we took him down the sand track together - the main track that leads into the nature reserve behind the house. I had Brett stationed on the lead rope and myself on the reins and I did the same things with the horse as I have for a while - stop frequently, mess around with the saddle, put weight in the stirrup, stand up in the stirrup - except this time I got on his back instead of only doing those preliminaries. And then we asked him to walk on with me on his back, and that was the first actual ride I had on him.

He wasn't fazed; and I didn't think he would be. A bit surprised maybe, "Well, this is new!" and quite attentive, and he liked being talked to while this was going on. In keeping with Tom Roberts' guidelines of ending the lesson before it goes wrong, I halted the horse and hopped back off him after about 10 seconds of riding, walked beside him for a bit, and then we stopped and I got back on him. This time the ride was longer. Stop and off again, and then back up for a third time. No worries, and we turned him back towards home and I rode him a bit longer still.

I haven't ridden since last August, and nobody but Sunsmart since at least 2014 (when my Arabian mare died). I don't have any photos of today, but here's a photo of Sunsmart from the very early stages of riding him back in 2009:








That was my first short trail outing on him after I adopted him and brought him down to Albany, where we lived back then. A neighbour and her horse were also floating around on the street leading to the Stidwell Bridle Trail. I remember this ride very well because Sunsmart was ultra spooky after moving to his new home. I'd done his riding preliminaries at his old home, where I'd ridden him around the training track he used to be driven on as a harness horse, and also on some local trails. He'd never seen bitumen before though, and he was a bit toey because of the echoing of his footfalls, when this photo was taken. Also the old saddle I had for him then didn't fit as well as the one I bought for him later and got specifically fitted to him, so I was actually slipping around on his back here, which is why one of my feet ended up lower than the other in the picture.

That same year I also had a ride on a huge thoroughbred, Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, who'd set a track record in Queensland and was "a horse no-one could do anything with anymore" until a friend picked him up and started treating him with decency and patience, and exercising him properly. He was a fabulous horse, I loved him to bits, he was very like our Romeo both in disposition and in the kinds of problems he'd had with people. Exceptionally fast racehorses not infrequently end up with greedy people and are spat out at the other end with behaviour problems... if they are lucky, they will be picked up by someone with sense, but it's the exception rather than the rule. Both Romeo and Rikki-Tikki were lucky.

Anyway, once when we were taking photos of my friend and Rikki-Tikki riding in the harbour, I was invited to have a splash on the big, solid, 17hh horse, and found that my friend's stirrup irons didn't accommodate my leg length, so I had a stirrupless jaunt on him. It was my first ever ride on Rikki-Tikki, but we already knew and liked each other well. I got completely soaked by the water thrown up by the horse legs at speeds faster than walking, and ended up looking like a drowned rat and freezing in the wind:








But my favourite photo was this:








..."it's moments like these"...









I just love how the things the photographer didn't intend actually sum up that ride so well - the tilted horizon, missing bits of person and horse, water splash on the lens as we screeched to a stop near the camera. You try riding at speed wet through and in a slippery wet saddle without stirrups... unforgettable!

Thing is, I was in my 30s back then, and I don't think I bounce as well 13 years later! I look at all of this and think it's crazy stuff I did in those days, but when you're doing this all the time it's just normal, and I never did get seriously hurt. I didn't fall off Rikki-Tikki, and even if I had, a water landing is reasonably harmless. I only fell off Sunsmart a few times in the 12 years I rode him, despite the hair-raising things we used to do, and I didn't fall off doing those, mostly just when I tried to get on bareback from the ground and overshot my target and went head-first off the other side again, much to the amusement of any bystanders.

And then there was the one time in 2018 where I fell off at a walk because I was daydreaming and the horse shied and ran backwards unexpectedly. I came off sideways and without much force, but with my foot at a funny angle, which snapped three metatarsals and had me walking around on a pirate leg for six weeks. Since that time I am aware of my own mortality, I suppose.

Julian is like Sunsmart in that he can turn on a thread and accelerate like a rocket. I had a lot of tough things to ride out during spooks the first year I rode Sunsmart, and I am actually not very keen on doing that again now that I'm clearly mortal.

There weren't any problems today, and I didn't anticipate any. Brett was there as "babysitter" and leading the horse so I didn't have to explain to him that he was supposed to walk forward at a steady pace while also sitting on his back - that comes a bit later. Avoiding misunderstandings is really important the first time you ride a horse.

We'll do it again soon - Wednesday afternoon perhaps. I'll spend more and more time on his back; I'll start asking him for a halt and walk-on when riding with Brett supporting at first. Eventually Brett will unclip him and just walk along as a proxy herd member, which a horse always finds calming. And after that I'll be on my own.

None of that bugs me. Just things like: When the first kangaroo comes out of the bushes unexpectedly, stuff like that. It's spooking that is challenging in a green horse, and usually it takes 3-6 months to get to the point where such situations aren't difficult to ride anymore. That bit I'm not looking forward to.

So what was it like to ride Julian? ...he feels like an intermediate between my Arabian mare and Sunsmart. My mare was a little smaller, and Sunsmart a fair bit bigger - taller, with a much longer neck. Even my Arabian mare had a longer neck, I think - it's prized in Arabians, but not so much in harness breeds. Sunsmart only had a neck like that because he was a French Trotter cross, which Julian isn't - although they are also both by the same stallion and both Albatross grandsons - and that line still had longer necks than contemporary Standardbreds. I rode a friend's contemporary-line harness racing rescue once, and he had the shortest neck of anything I'd ever ridden.

Julian thankfully isn't extreme like that. He's a very well put-together horse. I'm just getting used to being on a horse that's not as long as my last one, and has shorter strides too. Sunsmart had what I called "seven mile boots" - the longest strides I'd ever ridden, besides his French great-grandmother's.

_Julian, 2022_


_Sunsmart, 2018_

Something else that occurred to me, as we were walking down the sand track with Julian today: It's been almost exactly 6 months since we both walked Sunsmart down that track to be put down, early on Monday morning on the 29th of November last year. And here we were, walking Julian down the same track for his first ride, early on Monday morning, on the 30th of May.

I still miss him terribly, but I know he had a very good life.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

It's great to see you posting again. I'm very sorry that you lost Sunsmart - he had a wonderful life with you! You never stop missing them.

You're right, every horse is a universe, a new path to walk. 

A daughter of a friend has taken on an ex trotter, although I think he was still racing when she first sat on him. She's be telling the same tale as you regarding schooling and attitude.. 

At first I recognised myself as a horse monomania type, but the more I think about it, I've always made time for other sports, subjects, experiences, friends and family. They're a strange bunch who don't care one iota about bits, saddles, feeding routines and the consistency of poop! Perhaps I suffer from intermittent horse monomania..


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

We have really missed you on the forum! 

I was very sad to hear about Sunsmart, but he had a great life with you. Cushing's is a terrible disease. 

It was exciting to hear about you riding Julian!
I am right there with you, doing the first few rides on my pony Aria. It isn't fun knowing the unexpected might happen with such green horses. But so far she has been doing well. I haven't had to start a horse without experienced horse people to lead or ride with me since Amore. But thankfully this mare has a wonderful temperament. Still, she has had very little experience in life so far.

I suspect you will have very few issues with Julian.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm loving catching up on all the updates. Can't wait to read how the first few rides have gone. Welcome back!


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Hi Sue!

I wondered where you had disappeared to; it's good to hear from you again!
You write beautifully; thanks for a nice morning read. I look forward to the next installment 
I had to have my elderly Horse "Oily" put down earlier this year, so I can sympathize with your loss.
Too many recent changes in my part of the world to even begin, but we'll catch up.

Talk later! Steve (and George)


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

You have no idea how happy I am to see you posting! We should catch up!


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

very glad to hear from you I have wondered how you were doing "way cross the world" 
I will look forward to more about Julian.
Sis has a nice 3 yr old to get started. At our age we are not doing the first part ourselves. She went last fall for two months easy training and back this month for another couple of months. we will go to see her and will probably ride some the last month to help us get started on her.
Happy riding sue


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I was so, so happy to see your post this morning. Took a little extra time to play catch up and read through.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Hullo everyone, thanks for your kind words.

Sorry to hear you also lost a horse, @george the mule. That wasn't actually your oldest one, was it - or am I misremembering names? You had one well into his 30s last time I was here.

@Woodhaven, you've always been inspirational to me about fully utilising all of life. So many people end up doing lawn bowling as their sport of choice... and watch way too much TV... Got any photos / links for that 3yo? Are the horse flies bad yet?

@lostastirrup, you're still on your odyssey, I see. We should totally catch up. I was wondering, are your legs getting bent from all that riding? 

@egrogan, I see you have a nice new companion horse and that you now potentially have the facilities for six more lovely Morgans of kindly disposition... 😜

@gottatrot, how good that we can compare notes with saddle training a new four-legs. Have to say, Julian feels a bit more like a pony, compared to Sunsmart - although actually he's really well put together and somewhere between 14.3hh and 15hh, to Sunsmart's 15.1hh and enormous stride length. But I've not trotted on him yet and that's where I think he's going to be a bit more similar to Sunsmart - he can really move at the trot as well. But then, so could my Arabian mare...and Romeo...

@QtrBel, yes well, it was a high word count as pre-written...  So if you got to the end, you deserve a perseverance certificate!

@Caledonian, with all that historical stuff, Gaelic music and general interests you didn't come across a horse monomaniac to me! By the way, owing to the election weekend before last, we are breathing a big sigh that we're finally out from under the yoke of the oppressors - horrible bully-boys and rorters that we had for 9 long years, not to mention grossly incompetent - officially the most incompetent government we ever had, according to the number-crunchers...(the PM actually had been sacked from his last two jobs in private industry before finding himself incongruously head honcho of Australia)... and so, so, so incredibly annoying, depressing, and harmful to the majority of people in our country with the way they operated across the board... wish you luck with Bozo the Clown. Maybe Scotland needs to secede. God knows in Western Australia we were thinking about it...

This was the mood for many in Australia on election night...









And on Sunday morning...








from Australia's famous First Dog on the Moon | The Guardian


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I am so glad you got on Julian! It will be fun to see how he progresses!

I am focused on Queen still, but trying to keep Cash ridden down too. Husband has been riding him a lot with Lucy out. We thought she would be back now, but she ended up with pregnancy related laminitis, which we have been trying to treat with a little help from one of the shoers on here. We originally thought it might be thrush, but alas. She was doing a lot better, but an aggressive trim has her back to thinking she can’t walk. So, it looks like husband will need Cash for a while yet.

The girls want to team rope, and he is who I plan on big girl using there as well. He’s kinda become a good everyone horse. I don’t want to see her end up with another head injury, so I am particularly protective about who she gets on for what.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*ALAS, POOR YORRICK*

As always when we lose a horse, I go back a few months later to look at the skull. Since I don't own a horse mouth-gag, this gives me an excellent insight into the state of their teeth at the time of their demise.

With Romeo we were wondering just how many teeth he had lost. Turned out he had no molars at all left in his bottom jaw and had just been gumming his food (twice-daily enormous tubs of senior porridge and all the green grass in the garden). Here's Romeo's skull (right in photos), compared with Sunsmart's dam's (left in photos) - he was 34.5 and she almost 28 when they died... his teeth had truly worn out, hers had not.
















The cracked teeth in the mare's lower jaw were post-mortem weathering. You can see where the last teeth in Romeo's jaw had been before they'd all fallen out - the earlier casualties had completely closed sockets, the later ones were in the process of closing over. His jaw was nice and clean and he'd never abscessed despite his tooth loss - and for years I'd been resigned that he'd probably abscess and have to be put down because of that. Yet he was lucky, and he didn't have pain and infections despite the tooth loss.








Romeo had only lost two molars in the top jaw. The third gap was a tooth that fell out post-mortem and I couldn't find it to put it back in. I knew this because I check the skulls at regular intervals but it takes a while before they are relatively clean - meanwhile, the foxes and ravens have at them. - You can see that many of Romeo's top molars were on the way out though - look at the discolouration etc.

When I went to see Sunsmart's skull I was particularly interested in his teeth because he'd had major problems with them in his first Cushings crisis - he rapidly got periodontosis, gum ulcers from grass seeds, ulcerated tongue edges etc. He had his teeth done at the start of all this but I was very unhappy with the job - he didn't seem to eat any better after I forked out hundreds of dollars for the fancy power-tool job (and neither did the other horses, which is not how it was with any of the manual dentistry I'd observed for decades before - standard carrot test, for example - or looking for dropped feed). Also the job had left him with sharp edges on his incisors, which were not there before and caused his tongue margin to badly ulcerate from being cut all the time. Since the veterinarian didn't come back to fix it despite saying he would, I ended up taking the sharp edges off myself with a diamond-grit nail file (and fuming).

All this time, I was doing the best I could to assist the poor horse with his teeth by hosing out his mouth every second day, then flossing his incisors (but I could not reach the molars), pulling grass seeds out of his gum ulcers, hosing his mouth out again, then swabbing him with chlorhexidine solution the vet had given me, then using baby teething gel I'd bought at the supermarket to coat all the gum and tongue ulcers I could reach. It alarmed me how quickly, during that time, his gums were receding from his incisors; and you could smell the stuff that was getting caught between his molars that I couldn't reach and floss out. Also the infections in the ulcerations.

It's pretty much the same process that happens in uncontrolled diabetes in humans. It's related to the high blood sugar levels that go with a Cushings crisis. It took us four months to get that back under control despite tripling the medication, and those four months were hell on his teeth.

When he pulled out of the crisis, his ulcerations healed up and the gums looked better, but you could see that his tooth enamel had eroded at the gumline, which was now permanently shifted. He was fine for a year after all of that, but the second Cushings crisis, which went on for months as well, rapidly accelerated the dental disease again, and I was pretty sure he was losing molars.

When I went to see his skull, I saw the worst teeth I have ever seen in any herbivore skull (and there are plenty lying around in rural Australia).
















So that's the lower jaw. I should probably have retrieved it before - when I first saw it, it wasn't as eroded and animal activity subsequently led to several teeth falling out that had been there earlier - like some incisors that I couldn't track down, and a molar that belongs to the open socket on the right. He had actually, by the time he died, lost two molars in the left-hand side of his lower jaw, and the sockets had partly healed over.

But look at the bone loss and bone deformation in that jaw...😮 ...and compare that to the two horses above. He was not quite 25 years old, so died 3 years younger than his dam, and 9.5 years younger than Romeo.

The sheer destructiveness of Cushings, despite thousands of dollars we had spent on treating it. In some ways I have to say, his dam was better off. We put her down within three weeks of her getting severe Cushings symptoms - hers was so rapidly bad and she nearly 28 and we decided not to even try treating it specifically - she had laminitis and that wasn't getting better, plus major problems regulating electrolytes, blood sugar etc.

When Sunsmart shed unevenly one spring, I had him tested immediately. The vet was patting me on the head saying he thought I was being paranoid, then called me two days later to say that I was right, the blood panel showed the beginnings of Cushings (but no EMS - not later on either). So I immediately opted for treatment as he was still asymptomatic other than the uneven shedding - I was hoping it would prevent, or at least delay, the progression of the disease. The veterinarian at the time had said that in the early stages I could choose just to lifestyle manage the horse - exercise him consistently etc, and go for pergolide if things deteriorated. But I wanted to give him the best possible chance, and do both.

I can't tell you if it was worth it. He was stable for a year, which he may or may not have been without treatment - then nosedived into his first major crisis, which lasted 5 months despite immediately tripling his medication, and had him at death's door. The only reason we didn't put him down then is that he didn't have laminitis.

When he pulled out of that nosedive, he had another year of being a near-normal horse - I was riding him and he was 95% as before, galloping up hills to race the dog, volunteering trotting and cantering, etc. Then the second sudden nosedive, early last spring (and well before the spring flush). We increased the medication again and nursed and nursed him, and he was in far better spirits than in his first crisis, but his body had really given out. His dental disease took off again - he now had trouble chewing his bucket feed, so I made him a "Romeo mix" twice a day but though he enjoyed it, the state of his teeth was one reason I made the call to put him down.
















That's the top jaw - he did still have all his top teeth (that incisor was lost postmortem), but look at the state of them...

Also, those gaps between the molars, I had noticed when first looking at the skull a few months ago were packed with barley grass seeds - and there was no way I could have gotten them out, or, had they been removed by magic, kept them from accumulating in these places.

But if you think the crowns of his teeth look bad, you've not seen the worst of it yet... the worst was this:
















Just look at the jaggedness of the chewing surface...

And with the skull re-assembled...








There was a molar in that gap at the time of death, but I have never in my life seen such awfully uneven teeth...

He had a full power tool dental 18 months before he died, but as I said, it didn't seem to improve his chewing at all, and had left him with razor-sharp incisor edges, which is why I declined a repeat dentistry visit from the same vet 12 months later. He was checked out by a different veterinarian August last year, and came up fine on a general health check and blood panel - and she was going to put me in touch with someone who still does manual dentistry. By late September he was nosediving into another crisis.

Here's the other side of the skull:








That was the side he was lying on after death, so that's why it's more eroded and has grass roots in it. Those gaps were molars he'd lost before he died. I'm surprised he managed to chew anything at all with those teeth. Mechanically they really weren't very effective anymore. I suppose the green grass helped, as with Romeo - but Romeo's remaining teeth were not nearly as bad as these, although he had lived nearly a decade longer.

I'm actually not crazy about how the canines got ground down in the power dental, while we're at this...I didn't see why they should be ground down at all, but he completely flattened those, although they'd caused the horse no problems. All my life I've been used to male horses having normal canines that nobody touched unless they actually caused a problem - and even then, they didn't turn them into flat-top mesas like this. It was one thing that had annoyed me about it, but a peripheral thing.








The bottom jaw. Under it you can still see the oats he scattered everywhere that morning. We gave him oats that last time because he liked the taste of them, even though I'd stopped feeding them to him months earlier because he had less trouble with pellets and senior porridge. He spent ages over that bucket of crushed oats that morning. He was happy but you could see that it was the right call to put him down, just watching him eat. We had a highly skilled marksman who is also excellent with animals, they don't think he's the bogeyman and the horse wasn't batting an eyelid, just eating his food and it was instant oblivion.

Actually the marksman's wife has horses, and he was telling me that she always insisted on getting the vet out and pumping them full of poison through a needle. He said, "I've seen both and this is so much quicker and completely painless if it's done right. I would have done the same with our dog but no - and then she got me to take it to the vet. It was scared of the surgery so the vet came to the car. The dog backflipped before it died and hyperventilated grotesquely first. I saw its eyes pop. It's never like this when you do a clean shot on an animal."

Not all chemical euthanasias are like what happened to his dog, but our farrier, who is a friend of our marksman's too, has seen quite a few put down at the racecourse due to injury, and said he saw a few backflips and bad reactions in his time as well. Greg shot his dog when it was sleeping in the sun one afternoon, instead of taking it to the surgery. Saved the poor thing the trip and with a clean head shot, its death looked like going to sleep in the sun and then lights-out.

Of course, before the advent of projectile weapons and chemical euthanasia, let's not even go into how large animals were killed. I've read a few accounts and seen a few things, and it gives me nightmares. I'm glad there are better options in more recent history.








Yeah, just look at that bone loss. The incisors were complete at time of death, but the bone is so badly receded that several teeth fell out and you can't even put them back in because there's not enough socket left.

Definitely the right call...and I won't be treating Cushings again. If we have the misfortune to ever see another horse come down with this condition, I will simply put it down when quality of life becomes an issue. I can't tell you how stressful this was on us, not to mention the horse.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC, these pictures are incredible and so instructive. I've had a lot of ups and downs with Izzy, my remaining Cushings horse, coming out of this winter. I can't tell how much of her weight loss and depression was a result of Maggie's death, but she was not herself the last few months. With green grass back in our lives, she's in better shape, mentally and physically. Monday I'm taking her into the vet to have two more molars removed. I am mentally placing what I expect her underlying bone structure looks like in comparison to what you've posted; maybe closer to Sunsmart than the others, but I can't say how much bone loss to really expect. A few weeks ago, I thought we'd keep her happy through the summer and put her down later this fall. Today, I'm not so sure, but it's still in the back of my mind. 

We are still treating her with the Prascend for Cushing's, but I have never been able to get her over 1/2 pill without her stopping eating. When the vet saw her last week, she said she didn't want to bother with bloodwork because there was no point if we knew 1/2 pill of medication was going to be her limit- we'll do what she's willing to do and manage accordingly. I'm ok with that approach. She's 28 this year, and I know her time with us is winding down. I'm going to have the molars removed because I think she's had unnecessary pain with them loose and rattling around in there, and infection in between the gaps caused by them moving around. But I don't have any illusions that she will be "cured" as a result, and that's not the goal. One she's clear she's done, we'll honor that.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Glad that this is of use to someone else, @egrogan. Your Izzy doesn't look like she was as severe a case at any point as Sunsmart during his nosedives, but eventually tooth loss gets to horses. Chasseur (AKA Mr Buzzy) is 28, turning 29 later this year, and dropped condition for the first time this summer. I now bucket feed him three times the previous amount of hard feed, and he's put weight back on, but I think he's losing teeth and I'd guess he has another year, but then Romeo surprised us. Having said that, I'm never going to do that again either - feed such huge amounts of senior porridge twice daily for years and years. Our Buzzy at the moment prefers horse kibbles over anything else - no chaff, not oats, no canola, just dry plain kibbles is what he prefers, so I bought him high-quality senior kibbles and at least that's relatively easy compared to mixing up tubs of multi-ingredient porridge.

Buzzy and Julian in the garden recently, helping with the lawn-mowing:

With some of the new calves:

Ben, Don Quixote, Nelly with new calf:

New calves in the garden - when they're this little, they're not bulldozers yet and can help remove the kikuyu runners.

You can see how snug they are between the reeds.

We bought them from the same person we buy our milk from, a few months ago now, but this is when they were new.

We also have a group of yearling cattle at the moment - here with Mary Lou:

Ben the wonder donkey:

With Jess on the sofa - she's 10 now and just started getting arthritis shots. Dog life is short, so she gets lots of cuddles.


Oh and we're finally finishing our attic. This was Brett on Saturday - we did the finish plaster on that wall; the one to the right of it is a job for tomorrow (our "day off")...


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

That was very interesting to see the teeth. I am appalled by dentistry that left sharp hooks and such uneven grinding surfaces. I would not have my horses' teeth done if that was my option.

Regarding treating or not treating Cushing's, I think there are varying severities of the disease. Some horses don't have IR but are still severe, and some horses have numbers that seem fine until they die of the disease like my Halla. But if I had another like Amore, I would treat again. Her teeth were not affected, and she did not have IR. So once on the Prascend, her disease was fairly stable. I looked at her teeth after she died, and at 30 she still had them all, with short but flat grinding surfaces. 

I think people who say Cushing's is easy to treat have had horses like Amore. There are many Cushing's horses that I also would think should just be put down since they deteriorate quickly and the disease is more severe.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Hi Sue I don't have any pictures of Sis's filly, she is away right now but we will be going to see her and check on her progress and ride a bit there so we can get used to her when the trainer is still working with her. We call her Smarty because that's just what she is. She is very level headed and not spooky or flighty at all which is what these two old ladies need in a horse.
I do have some pictures of our first show of the season a week or so ago. The first class was ok the second not so. I should have worked him a bit more before that class. Thought he might be tired NOT! Sometimes I wonder if I am crazy still wanting to show at my age (81) When am I going to be old enough to know better L


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@Woodhaven, wow - excellent! You're both looking great. The horse shiny, well-muscled, relaxed and seems to be enjoying his dance with you. And I'd never guess from your posture you are in your 80s. What are your keep-fit activities besides horse riding and maintenance? Do you do Pilates? Strength training with weights? Do you swim?

A family friend who lived until she was 100 said to never stop doing challenging things, physically or mentally, or you'd lose the capacity. She was in her own home until she died in her sleep. Last year one of my best friends and most influential role models died at the age of 88, and she also knew how to live well - she was such an amazing and wonderful person I wrote her a memorial I share with everyone, and that way Alice can be a part of the lives even of people who have never met her. Her favourite poetry speaks volumes about her attitude and why she was so greatly loved by so many people.

The filly sounds just the thing for your stage in life (and I will remember there's another young "Smarty" in the world now!). You may find it hilarious that one of the reasons I adopted Sunsmart as my replacement riding horse in my late 30s was that I wanted a sturdy horse that wasn't going to fall over in tight corners while also athletic - I'd had several falls with light horses and didn't wish to repeat that experience going into midlife. Falling with a horse is usually more dangerous than falling off one. Sunsmart never fell over with me, despite us doing all sorts of crazy things. Julian isn't the type to fall over either - rock solid but athletic.

@gottatrot, I'm glad treatment helped your horse and also @egrogan's. Awful bloody disease. Every time we put down a horse I become even less inclined to muck about for solutions in horses that age and I've never thought afterwards, "Maybe he could have had another nice week/month/year." Misery you can't do anything about or misery you see coming are worse than death by far. My friend Alice decided to stop taking her diabetes medication last year for that reason and had a peaceful death on her own terms at 88. Bill, also in his 80s, said after his heart attack that he wishes he'd not been revived - and within a year had such terrible dementia he is in a home not recognising anyone. That is not life...

@egrogan, further to my joke about your potential horse herd size, which I knew would make you laugh because it would be totally insane (but some people do bonkers things like this) - your new mare may not fret if you ride out and leave her at home, she seems a bit more laid-back - after Izzy departs hence, I mean. Which would cut down your workload. Buzzy doesn't fret when I take Julian away - sometimes he tags along for a bit, but then he just goes back to the pasture to graze, even if the donkeys continue to accompany us and don't go back with him. I don't plan to have more than two horses ever again.

@Knave, I am glad things are better with big girl and that you all seem to be enjoying life again. I hope Lucy's laminitis settles soon, it's a horrible condition both to have and to treat. Queen and Julian have similar markings and colour!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Also for @egrogan to consider is that many horses fuss just a little when their buddy leaves, not enough to be dangerous or harm them physically. Hero calls out and runs around a little when I leave him alone, but he doesn't go near the fences, doesn't work himself into a sweat, and I consider it just exercise. Izzy is special, and I've met other horses that will go through fences or get ulcers if they are ever left alone.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Hay Ms. Sue! Long time no hear from! You guys have been busy busy busy, but in a very good way. I'm glad everything has gone so well for you and all of your 'crew'. I was kind of wondering what had happened to you. Your place is looking amazing. 

@Woodhaven, I hope you NEVER outgrow the showing bug! It's fun, keeps us broke and out of trouble and gives us something to look forward to. I can't think what I'd do with myself if I ever quit showing or, at least at this point, breeding and playing with foals. You and the horse are looking amazing.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Hay Ms. Sue! Long time no hear from! You guys have been busy busy busy, but in a very good way. I'm glad everything has gone so well for you and all of your 'crew'.


Yeah right. A couple posts up from yours is the skull of my riding horse, and the whole first page of this thread talks about losing him. But yeah, everything went _so_ well for us.

Hello anyway.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

SueC said:


> Sorry to hear you also lost a horse, @george the mule. That wasn't actually your oldest one, was it - or am I misremembering names? You had one well into his 30s last time I was here.


Hi Sue.

You remember correctly; how fast the years pass us by.
My Senior Paint Horse "Banjo" passed in the spring of 2019. In some ways, his going was even more traumatic than Oilys. Banjo was 36yo, and still in good condition; still under saddle for light duty when taken by a severe colic. He just _loved_ to roll, and it finally got him.
Oily was _only_ 30yo, but his health was failing. He had no teeth left, and tho he was still interested in hay/grazing, he mostly just spit it back out. He had been living on soaked Alfalfa, Senior feed, and grain, for the last couple of years. He had "String Halt" in both back legs, was losing muscle mass in his hind quarters, and was no longer being ridden.
Unfortunately, I think that retirement is probably the beginning of the end for a lot of Horses. Oily also succumbed to a Colic, the same thing that got Banjo. A "Displacement" Colic; where their intestine gets twisted. A risky surgery to repair this, even on a younger Horse, but not really an option for Seniors, alas.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

We _do_ have another "Horse" in the household, tho: "Lacy_the_Large".
Lacy is an 8hh ~140lb Irish Wolfhound. We are still trying to decide if she will be English or Western 
Here is a recent foto; she had been out playing in an unexpected late Spring snowfall.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC & @gottatrot - I wonder how much of Izzy's behavior has to do with how our farm/fields are situated. A horse left alone here is basically out in an open field sandwiched in between woods all around it. No horsey neighbors in sight/smell distance. When we boarded, Izzy and Fizz shared a 1 acre field that was at the end of a row of paddocks. She didn't react like this when I took Fizz away from her in that field, I assume because there were a dozen other horses in sight. At any rate, I can say for sure that 9 horses are definitely not in my future plans  It definitely was a lot easier just having two over the winter, without question- aside from that pesky problem of not riding.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I went back, but somehow I keep missing it. Where did Buzzy come from?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

It's just a nickname for Chasseur, the chestnut we adopted in 2014 together with his full sister who was Sunsmart's dam and who died in 2017 and whose spot was filled by Julian, who is now Chasseur AKA Mr Buzzy's best buddy. But don't worry, @Knave, I have trouble keeping your peripheral family's horses straight, and I don't think you have any where you are using two names interchangeably...but if we all start doing this with every horse we have, I'm sure we will be able to confuse the hell out of each other! 😜

That's a gorgeous hound, @george the mule! ...funny, I was here in 2019 and must have heard of Banjo's death and then slipped it. I remember the photos and how well he looked! ...how is George? And is that a pony you have for a footstool?


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Sue, George is pretty much the same as always; maybe a bit more grey around the muzzle. We still get out in the neighborhood fairly regularly, but we haven't done any real "trail" rides since the pandemic changed our world for us.
One huge change was moving away from our long-time home in Palmer Lake. (40+ years for me, 25 of 'em with my wife Judy.) As you will probably recall, Palmer Lake is situated right up against the mountains/National Forest, and riding opportunities abound.
With the disruptive influence of "That Disease That Shall Not Be Mentioned For Fear Of Invoking Censorship", we had a huge influx of Urbanites in Palmer Lake, and they were buying up everything in sight, and, of course, bringing in the typical city-dweller need for rules to govern their existance. One of the very first "Ordinances" was one banning Dogs, and Horses from the trails in the Mountains west of town. "Can't have Poop on the trails where we want to run, hike, bike, and push our baby strollers then, can we?" Sigh.
The dark cloud did have a slender Silver lining tho; local property values doubled almost overnight. We consolidated our assets, sold out (our long-time neighbors were sad; some of them have since left as well.), and bought a very nice home and property in a covenant-protected Equestrian community in Elizabeth, CO. Google if you are curious, but it's enough to know that Elizabeth is about 35 miles North East of Palmer Lake; out on the plains SE of Denver.
We have tons of trails; there are "Bridle Path" easements between all of the properties, and you can pretty much ride where ever you want in and around town, but it's flat and un-interesting terrain compared to were we were.
And we have since discovered that escapees from Denver are buying up property as fast as it goes on the market in the next county West of us, so the Denver Urban Sprawl is almost on our doorstep. Again, the Silver Lining of rapidly escalating property values comes into play, and we have already done very well on our investment.
Our riding club has been mostly inactive, but we are hopeful that with things slowly getting back to normal, we will get in some rides this summer.
The new dog Lacy (not quite 2yo) is really a sweetheart. Frankly, I was against the idea of bringing such a large animal into our house, but she has been wonderful in every way.
That foot-stool is a model of George that a friends daughter made for a Middle-school art project a bunch of years ago. Apparently it was not well received by the school "art critics", but it does have a certain charm, and it goes well with the rest of our "Horsey" decor :-D "We _like_ it, Glencora; Thanks!"


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Hi Sue as for other types of exercise, not much, I do cut grass here on the farm and a lot of weeder whacking to keep the place looking cared for, we rent the farm out now so no farm work to do.
I do a lot at my sister's like clipping pastures and trails, this with a tractor and mower and a lot of weed whacking on the trails that the tractor can't get to. 
Was out for a lovely ride this morning on these trails, the bugs are not out yet, colder weather here right now so I want to get out as much as possible before those nasty critters arrive.
If I didn't have the horses I would be an extreme couch potato, just lay around reading and munching.
Looking forward to hearing your adventures with Julien. I will follow closely as we will be working with Sis's youngster.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FINISHING THE ATTIC*

Because people ask, and because I am also interested in @egrogan's renovations (before/after photos...pretty please with cherries on top...🍒), and because @Knave and I had articles on owner building in the same magazine (which has sadly ceased to print last year due to the pandemic and nobody wanting to buy it off the old owner) - here's something on finishing our house.

We finished the downstairs in 2016 and took a big breather. The attic was unfinished - one plaster coat on two walls, two on the third (the fourth is conventional framing) when three coats are needed to finish strawbale walls. It was our store room basically, where all the odds and ends got thrown, and things we couldn't put in the shed because of the rodents there. (I've got a plan for that - eventually, when we get the balcony materials out of the shed by actually building the balcony, we will put everything out, hose the lot down including the inside of the building, and then put a whole bunch of dead fridges and freezers from the tip in there as a wall of rodent-proof and dust-proof cupboards and storage spaces, which will also keep some dead whitegoods out of landfill and stop us from using new materials.)

That building break kind of went on and on. Many times did we put "finish the attic" on the New Year's Resolution list, and whooosh, the year went right by. Last year it took us months just to sort and relocate all the stuff in the attic, which had to be moved so we could finish the room...

Then in summer we hosted non-stop, but after that we FINALLY got started on that attic.

*March 31, 2022*

Before:

Shape-coating the east wall:


After:

Next, the end wall will need its shape coat, then put the finish coat over the whole lot, which will make the surfaces look pretty.

North end (= our sun-facing end):

Also I have to do the woodwork for the window architrave, ceiling cornice and skirting boards on the plasterboard walls in the south end of the attic - and around some "curly areas" too. The south end is situated over a wet area (bathroom) which was built with conventional framing instead of straw walls, so that continues into the upstairs.

I did the downstairs window/door architraves and the skirtings/cornices in jarrah, a dark wood, cut from facecuts from the sawmill, for a rustic look. Upstairs I decided I'm going to use commercial pine, but "milk-wash" it like the staircase, and build a matching shelf into the recess to the right of the straw wall where you currently see the hanging rod, the same depth as the straw wall. I did a whole-wall bookcase for the office in the same material 7 years ago and will use the same construction method.


*April 4, 2022*

We had a 10-litre bucket of leftover sand/lime plaster from Thursday, and some cob I'd made with another 4 litres or so of plaster too (mix of straw and plaster). These needed using up before they would go off, as they will within a week even stored in a bucket with a lid. So I rolled up my sleeves for a couple of hours. This was the result.

I worked on the hollows in the right-hand side of the end wall, and the ceiling gaps. Filling the hollows will make it easier to do the shape coat there next weekend.

You can see we've scratched the east wall. We did that when it was nearly green dry. The scratches will help us wet the wall before putting the finish coat on eventually, and will help the finish coat stick.

I used the cob to fill gaping holes between the ceiling and wall, in preparation to plastering it flush. Plaster itself isn't good for that, but cob can be made to stick.



I had to give the ceiling a bit of a wipe-down around the edges after cobbing. You don't want plaster sticking on where it's not supposed to be. The remaining haze will come off easily later. 

*April 13, 2022*

We finished the second coat on the gable end of the attic interior a couple of weeks back:

When that was dry (and scratched for the final coat) a week later, I went back and added some plaster to a ceiling gap at the top left of that end. Then I made a big bucket of cob from plaster and straw, and used it to stuff a ceiling gap on the east wall in preparation for the final coat.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*May 28, 2022*

For the finish coat, we actually needed to order some new sand. Once we had that, we were ready to continue.

We did the finish coat on the gable end Saturday and were shattered afterwards. We'd already had a long week, and plastering up in the attic involves carting big buckets of plaster up the stairs (downstairs you can work out of a wheelbarrow). Since Brett is the detail monkey, plastering all the nitty-gritty things like door and window reveals, curves and ceiling lines, while I mostly do the straight coating because I'm fast at it, I also volunteered to be our plaster-hauling monkey. Between that and actual plastering, my arms tend to feel it the next day. Plus, three days before the weekend plastering, I'd had a flu shot in one arm and a COVID booster in the other, which might have contributed to tiredness. This is Brett at the end of the gable finish coat:


*June 2, 2022*

We did the finish coat on the east wall on Thursday, feeling considerable fresher. It was another long day though.


Lime plaster is pretty hard on your clothes, so you wear the stuff that would otherwise go in the rag bin.

This is the east wall Friday morning:

The bottom of the wall was too wet Thursday night for finishing the surface off with a pool trowel, so that was my job Friday morning, while Brett dragged himself to the office before what's mercifully a long weekend here.

And that's the gable end finish coat dry. It's a bit rougher than we would have liked because we ran out of energy and daylight in the end. Is supposed to look rustic though, and will come up great once the curtains are hung and all that.

That's 80% of the attic plastering finished. One wall to go - finish coat on the west wall, no windows or doors in that, hooray.

My arms ache just looking at these photos and I wonder how on earth we ever managed to build this entire house. Brett says, "One step at a time, Sue. Plus really, it was young people who did all that work...for their older selves to enjoy and finish..." 

If anyone wants to look back at the decade of building: Strawbale House Build

😮 😶 😴 😒 😩 🤩 🥳


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FIRST INDEPENDENT RIDE ON JULIAN*

It's been a week since my first ride on Julian - on a lead-line, on and off three times, going from 10 seconds on the horse at a walk before dismounting to show him it was no big deal, to maybe 30 seconds, and then a minute or two to finish, with hand walking in-between. This was after a ton of preliminary work in previous months, detailed earlier in this thread.

We've had plastering to do this week and then guests, but they left this morning and it was a beautiful sunny afternoon on a public holiday Monday...

Well, with all the good examples being set by @Knave with Queen and @gottatrot with Aria, it was high time I got serious and rode Julian off the line - which has been standard for second and subsequent sessions on all the harness horses I've been involved in re-educating to saddle. There was never a problem and I don't know why I got nervous about doing this again and put it off for so long, other than that I don't bounce as well these days and did break my foot in 2018 coming off Sunsmart at a walk when I wasn't paying attention and he jumped backwards because something spooked him.

They say that bravery is a lack of imagination (and a lack of previous serious accidents).

We took lots of photos today, which we've never done before with any horse for their first ride - not even for Sunsmart. I'm going to post all the ones we put on our online photo album, including the ones where I am pulling funny faces - you may amuse yourselves at the expense of my dignity.

Photos started right after I caught Julian and haltered him - a process in which I invoke the assistance of carrots. One other good thing about that is I only need to call the horses, and they come running - which saves me a lot of walking. So I called the horses this afternoon - they were grazing about 200 metres away - and almost instantly there was the thundering of hooves. Even old Chasseur AKA Buzzy, who turns 29 later this year if he gets that far, is running flat out again on a regular basis, since I started feeding him up with Senior kibbles from the end of summer, after he had started dropping weight for the first time in his long life.

So they raced each other in, got carrots shoved in their maws, and then we took some photos of grooming and tacking up. You can still see the carrot bits in the horse's mouth...


It's basically impossible to groom Julian or anybody else without Chasseur getting in on the act...so I often do ambidextrous grooming...




Then the saddle went on...




The bridle he's wearing is the cross-under bitless I converted to sidepull, but if you unbuckle the noseband part off that sidepull you can buckle in a bit and use it as a normal bridle. I have spare nose bands but don't tend to use those, especially if I leave a halter on the horse, which I do for convenience (it's a very West Australian thing, especially in the harness fraternity - saves mucking around at the tie rail - and today the halter was needed anyway, as Brett would start off leadlining us).

Oh yeah, and our hairdresser has COVID, so until she RAT tests negative we will look shaggy and I will have trouble seeing from under my fringe. We were already over-late for our haircuts because so busy, and when we finally managed to book, she messaged us ahead a week later to say her partner had tested positive and she would likely come down with it herself. We re-scheduled to Saturday and then she had to move us again, to Wednesday, fingers crossed, as still not well and testing positive...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

So off we went around the back of the house and pretty quickly when we hit the trail, we stopped the horse and I got on his back. And away we went, with Brett initially leading him. No worries there. Because I didn't want to get nervous, I needed something to do and asked Brett for the camera - to take the first between-the-ears shot off him. Here it is:

What happened several milliseconds after the photo was taken is a big leap forwards and sideways, knocking into Brett - because Julian doesn't like strange noises and he had heard the shutter noise close up...😄

It was the one leap and then he was OK, and it bothered Brett more than me. I caught him with the bit, and avoided the big-bump scenario that we often do automatically when a horse leaps unexpectedly - just a small bump, a little heavier than it would have been had I been able to plan my response. Because I've not ridden since last August - and that was on a horse that basically steered telepathically because he and I were such a long-standing team - my autopilots have been waning, and I will need to work on them, but it shouldn't take too long to get back up to speed.

Things were fine after that, I kept the camera, and kept clicking away, with the difference that I was now singing to cover the shutter sound, and to keep things positive. Singing, in fact, the Aeroplane Jelly song...






I just find that a better go-to than _99 Bottles of Beer_, for situations like this. It's a nicer tune as well, if you don't sing it quite as high as the little girl from the 1930s. In the next shot you can see Julian is listening intently - and there was no more leaping at the shutter sound.

Brett says he doesn't particularly care for the Aeroplane Jelly song, and would prefer me to sing _Summertime_. I will keep that in mind, but Aeroplane Jelly is a good simple one for dealing with possible incipient mental problems in a horse or in oneself. Although it could be argued that it is also a _reflection_ of a mental problem. 😜

Fortified by Aeroplane Jelly, I asked to be unclipped from the lead, and away we went.


The next manoeuvre was for Brett to get past us again without spooking the horse, so I asked him not to run or make sudden movements. He power-walked past and ahead, and then took photos of us approaching.



Then he ran ahead again and repeated his volunteer camera work:









...and that last one was an "Oh, our halts aren't perfect yet because the horse doesn't understand the seat and weight aids yet."


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Then it was time for a dismount and some hand walking. The reason for frequent mounting and dismounting in the early stages of saddle education are to get a horse used to being monkeyed onto and off of, and to give a horse repeat practice at standing still for mounting and dismounting - good habits are formed by repetition.




We walked around our southern boundary for a bit, until we got to the swampy bit. Brett said, "You should get on your horse!" However, I really had no intentions of splashing a horse through a boggy puddle on his first ride, and opted to lead him through, carefully utilising stepping stones and clumps of reeds myself so I wouldn't get wet feet. Julian, who's been led through this muddy swamp patch at least half a dozen times, again made no attempts to baulk, leap dramatically, rush, zig-zag wildly, etc, which is where he's a bit different from famously hydrophobic Sunsmart in his first year of saddle training...

Turning into the swamp track, I got back on the horse.




I really must do something about my helmet, which keeps on going off to one side. I sincerely hope that the problem is asymmetry in the harness setup and not in my head.

What he feels like to ride - and I had far more time today to experience that, than last time - really is like an intermediate between Sunsmart and my Arabian mare. He's an athletic, squarely built horse and he likes to move. The shape of his back is very similar to Sunsmart and my mare - he's in the same saddle as Sunsmart and doesn't look as if he needs the saddle adjusted. He's in the same girth settings as either of them, with his 14.3-15hh height compared to Sunsmart's 15.2hh and my mare's 14.2hh. You can see that my lower legs come off his barrel because he's very wide where my knees are, just as was the case with the other two horses - but not with Romeo, or a lot of other horses I've ridden.

Temperamentally his work attitude is very like Sunsmart's. He's not in a rush when walking, even though he walks out well, Sunsmart had seven-mile boots; Julian has a shorter stride, about like my Arabian mare, perhaps a bit longer - noting that my little mare rode like a horse, not a pony - long strides, with the hind legs reaching a good foot in front of the fore footprints at a walk, as was the case with Sunsmart. My mare tended to want to rush around and was a bit like riding a firecracker - these boys are like controlled firecrackers, bringing it out when it's wanted or needed (or when a bogeyman leaps from the bushes), and being cool as cucumbers the rest of the time.

We have a little film from the first stage of today's ride, about five minutes after I got on him.






You really wouldn't know it's his first off-lead ride, looking at that. He's very balanced and calm and looks like he's been doing this a while, even though he hasn't.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

One of my foibles is to comment on camera settings when I am being filmed. One of Brett's foibles is to come up with interesting ideas, such as, on the swamp track on the second leg of the ride, "I can run ahead, hide behind some bushes, and then leap out unexpectedly if you'd like me to!" 😋

I laughed, and said, "Not today, thank you, but maybe in the future!"

Then I dismounted at the entry to the middle meadow, told Julian what a good boy he was, and walked him home, including a leap over a little creek. We decided to clamber up on the dam wall on our way back to the tie rail.







It's a good idea to do all sorts of things with horses. Julian does clamber up on the dam wall himself sometimes, as do the donkeys and as did Romeo, but none of the other horses we've had here. Both these horses share their thinking disposition - and Romeo was Julian's uncle, actually. That's also why the names. Romeo's sister was Juliet, and her only foal was naturally Julian. I named this one, as had been the case with Sunsmart and Chasseur, and a few other horses since my parents had most unfortunately called one of their mares Teen Force...reminiscent of a cartoon band borrowing from the Spice Girls...😣

Back home, the bridle came off at the tie rail. This was the view as I was taking the bridle to the shed, and getting a carrot to divvy up between this lot:

Then the saddle and halter came off, and it was bucket o'clock already, just like that!

Weather permitting, next ride Thursday afternoon. I'm not riding this horse while alone at home until we get a bit more established!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Hooray for you and Julian!! 
I tend to wear my helmet like that too, and I can't figure out why.
I love that quote about how bravery is a lack of imagination. Too true!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I just had an idea, @gottatrot. Is your helmet skewing to the same side as mine? Because maybe my right hemisphere is so much more developed than my left, and it shows when I wear helmets... 😇


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Buzzy is still blowing my mind. Yes, his real name rings a bell, but I think he just never stood out to me. Romeo, Sunsmart, and Julian and the donkeys, and then poor Buzzy never stuck with me. He’s beautiful! I wonder if he was just so background to me with the others…

I loved your ride! The pictures are wonderful. I understand the nerves, as I always have them on a new colt. I know he’s no colt, but you know what I mean. I feel I have too big an imagination, and I’ve been working on trying to not let it get the best of me. Lol. I can imagine so much going wrong, that sometimes I forget to remember how well it is actually going. I leave the halter under Queen’s bridle still when something is wrong, like the wind is blowing hard or we are doing something difficult. I don’t just think to myself, “Everything has gone well. I can trust this mare.” Instead I think of everything that could go poorly. I don’t love that about myself.

I loved when you spoke on the video. I don’t think you realize how lovely your voice is!


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

SueC said:


> *ALAS, POOR YORRICK*
> 
> As always when we lose a horse, I go back a few months later to look at the skull. Since I don't own a horse mouth-gag, this gives me an excellent insight into the state of their teeth at the time of their demise.
> 
> ...


This will go down as one of the most interesting and sobering reads about senior horse care, quality of life, and euthanasia


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Something I've discovered that helps ME when Bandit is feeling antsy: I've taken to wearing an mp3 player with one earphone going to my left ear, leaving my right ear free to hear whatever Bandit hears. I tend to overthink things and anticipate things to worry about. Having a tune playing in one ear is just enough distraction that I ride calmer. It also can lead to doing a duet while cantering down a wash, which is OK as long as no one else is within earshot of me. It is a bit embarrassing if caught to have someone think I'm singing something like this to Bandit 🤠 :




When I'm trying to get him to do something we haven't done before, a little distraction helps me.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*SHOWING UP YOUR INJURIES*

Here's a good side outcome of my first independent ride on Julian and the photos we took. It highlighted an injury I carry and need to manage better. It got aggravated because we've been plastering in recent months (see last page) and I was the one to carry a total of about 750kg of lime plaster in 20-kg buckets from where the cart can't go any further outside our bedroom, through the French doors, through the room, through the office and up the stairs to the attic. Followed by hours of plastering, the floor-level stuff from a squatting position. And it's showing. Thankfully we only have one plastering session to go and at most another 240kg of plaster to shift for that last session.

I usually avoid loading my spine with heavy cargo carried low at the end of my arms, and carrying any kind of asymmetrical load - it's a big no-no for healthy spines, and an even bigger one for pre-injured and/or older spines. Sometimes we do something where it's impossible to avoid it, and that's when I will start feeling an aggravation around the injury site. I usually these days manage to avoid putting my back out completely, but a few days of "no-no" activities will gradually have a cumulative effect on my spine, and I start getting a stiff back and low-key muscle spasm.

Did anyone else notice it in the photos? I did - "Oh wow, I'm actually not straight!" At the beginning of my ride my left shoulder was drooping, and you can see my back was twisted in the riding-away shots. By the time we took the film I had mostly, but not completely, warmed out of it.

But yeah. I've known this was going on for several weeks, and I've been as safe as possible during the actual plastering. I've managed to avoid putting my back out completely, but - even the low-level stuff isn't good, and the photos make that really obvious.

The answer for me always has been: Lots of walking and hiking, and Pilates. I've managed pretty well in keeping up the walking and hiking since moving to the farm, and especially the hiking has come back big-time into our programme these last two years, but the Pilates is not a regular thing and needs to become, not just regular, but a daily thing of at least 20 minutes, maybe 40 - the systematic stretching and flexing, but also the core-building.

When I lived in town I used to go to two hour-long classes a week, and do a bit in-between, and that, together with safe load handling practices, safeguarded me from re-aggravating my injury 99% of the time. And I quite simply have struggled to maintain that now that I can no longer attend the classes in town. Every now and then I manage get into a regular routine and then something disrupts it. I really have to do it first thing after breakfast, before I get into my outdoors chores and then get too tired physically to make a big effort at Pilates.

But what happened over the summer of hosting is I couldn't fit in the Pilates anymore between feeding guests and then rushing out into the garden later than normal to do the watering and tending before the peak UV window and high temperatures began - I simply had to run straight to the garden and do that. By the time I came in I'd be sweaty and heat exhausted and in need of a cool shower and rest. And once I'm tired for the day I'm tired, and my personal breaks usually consist of sitting on the sofa reading and/or writing, or having a lunchtime nap if it's summer (when I have an early outdoors shift and a late outdoors shift).

The two things I've really struggled to fit in since moving to the country are Pilates and music practice - for the same reasons. It's not that I don't have the time, it's that I usually lack energy. Anyway, my current guests are leaving at the end of the week - then I will do my after-breakfast sessions again and see if I can establish another not-to-be-messed with routine.

If anyone has any handy tips on this kind of problem and/or just wants to vent about what you've been meaning to do but keeps falling by the wayside, please post. We might all feel better and we may learn things.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Knave said:


> Buzzy is still blowing my mind. Yes, his real name rings a bell, but I think he just never stood out to me. Romeo, Sunsmart, and Julian and the donkeys, and then poor Buzzy never stuck with me. He’s beautiful! I wonder if he was just so background to me with the others…


He's still a nice horse, but he definitely is starting to look geriatric this year. I don't know how long before it will be his turn to be put down. If I get warning I'll probably adopt another horse first, but it has to be one that doesn't mind being left behind with the donkeys when I work with Julian. Buzzy doesn't mind, he's been tagging along sometimes and then heading back to the pasture when he felt like it, with or without the donkeys.

There's an Arab stud up the road, or at least there used to be, endurance lines and they actually at one point had a sister of my Arab mare in their breeding herd and still had those bloodlines last time I looked. I'm not sure I want a young horse, though I'd be happy to get one that didn't make the grade for endurance (or is retired from endurance and reasonably sound) but is used to the hustle and bustle and travelling etc, and won't get herd-bound, and will be usable for beginner riders to perhaps come riding with me. I do occasionally have visitors who are quite competent at riding and I wouldn't mind taking them on a trail, and lead-lining beginners on an experienced horse again. Though having said that, it probably won't be that long before I can lead-line people on Julian.

Still, Julian will need an equine companion for maximum happiness, so that's something I have to get prepared for. There's less choice if I have little warning, but the least warning we had here was around three weeks, and it's probable I could get something reasonable even in that window. I'd actually prefer a horse in its teens to one in its 20s because I'm getting rather sick of putting horses down every couple of years.

Re your not noticing Buzzy - well, I find my way around your lot, @Knave, with relative ease because they are so distinctive from each other and because they all appear frequently in the photos. I've never ridden Buzzy, he was retired from racing due to a tendon injury - is paddock sound but was already in his 20s when we adopted him and his sister (Sunsmart's dam) back in 2014. He was 21, she was 25 - he's on the right in this picture, and he was a really beautiful and athletic horse when younger.

But these horses were both pure retirees and backgrounded a bit in my journal compared to the others. By the way, the other horses on your ranch are a bit like a vague cloud to me too! 



Knave said:


> I loved your ride! The pictures are wonderful. I understand the nerves, as I always have them on a new colt. I know he’s no colt, but you know what I mean. I feel I have too big an imagination, and I’ve been working on trying to not let it get the best of me. Lol. I can imagine so much going wrong, that sometimes I forget to remember how well it is actually going. I leave the halter under Queen’s bridle still when something is wrong, like the wind is blowing hard or we are doing something difficult. I don’t just think to myself, “Everything has gone well. I can trust this mare.” Instead I think of everything that could go poorly. I don’t love that about myself.
> 
> I loved when you spoke on the video. I don’t think you realize how lovely your voice is!


It's so interesting to me that you have nerves starting new horses! I can't see it in your super-confident demeanour in your photos. I suppose we always have to project confidence with horses anyway no matter what's going on inside, because we're in herd-leader position when monsters appear etc. But you're starting horses all the time and basically live in the saddle, and I only do it every now and then these days and ride maybe 3-4 times a week at peak! It's actually the first time I noticed my nerves getting on a horse I was training - must have been too busy for nerves or too complacent or too immortal before now.

And it's ludicrous, because of course Julian was super-prepared and didn't bat an eyelid, and isn't likely to cause much trouble (yet it only takes one little thing and you're injured, even if it doesn't happen frequently, so I understand why you think that way too, and in some ways it's actually good to be a bit over-careful). I hope the weather is nice tomorrow and I get another chance for a short ride. Brett's home tomorrow and can go walking around with us, as an official herd member.

Thanks for your voice compliments. It's not too bad if I don't try to use it for extended periods, considering. You'll have to do one of yours without music so I can hear you talking too (or link me to one!). 




lostastirrup said:


> This will go down as one of the most interesting and sobering reads about senior horse care, quality of life, and euthanasia


I'm glad you got something out of it. I hate being in a position to write stuff like this but since I can't change the circumstances I may as well do something useful that might help others, as well as satisfy my own curiosity and reassure myself on yet another level that I made the right call about a euthanasia. I realise that very few people routinely have access to the skulls of their deceased horses.

So I guess taking photos and talking about that is giving other people a chance to see something they don't usually, and think about things like whether their equine dentist is doing a good job or not. Not that the state of Sunsmart's teeth was due entirely to the dentistry - I would say it was mostly a side-effect of the Cushings - the bone loss and tooth displacement certainly and I would guess the uneven growth largely as well - but I'm pretty sure that the dental work I paid hundreds for could have been better performed for him, not just because of the razor-sharp enamel edges he got on his incisors _as a result of having them ground back_, that I had to remove myself afterwards - but because I think the unevenness could have been addressed better with those power tools, and because I don't think sharp hooks like he had on his molars develop in 18 months.

Like I said, I didn't see any material difference in the horse's ability to eat before and after the dentistry visit, and not in the other horses either, who also still had trouble with carrots after. And that's the first time I've had horses without major tooth loss who had trouble with carrots after a dentistry session. All three of them. And an experienced veterinarian with a good reputation. The mind boggles. Of course, I'd be public enemy number one if I said this to him. We're not in his practice anymore. And - I really need to ask my farrier if he knows someone who still does manual dentistry. Julian and Buzzy could both use a decent "tooth servicing" ASAP.




bsms said:


> Something I've discovered that helps ME when Bandit is feeling antsy: I've taken to wearing an mp3 player with one earphone going to my left ear, leaving my right ear free to hear whatever Bandit hears. I tend to overthink things and anticipate things to worry about. Having a tune playing in one ear is just enough distraction that I ride calmer. It also can lead to doing a duet while cantering down a wash, which is OK as long as no one else is within earshot of me. It is a bit embarrassing if caught to have someone think I'm singing something like this to Bandit 🤠 :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, I use the one-earphone trick when I'm trimming hooves sometimes with a cantankerous or nervous individual. Keeps me even. Haven't done it riding yet. Interesting choice of song to sing on a horse - all those tempo variations! Are you choreographing your gaits to these?  I'd have trouble with that, both from a singing perspective (the baseline beat the horse provides would make that hard to do and I'd probably fall off from using too much of my processing capacity on the music rather than on the horse) and because I naturally tend to sing songs that have the same kind of tempo as what I'm trying to do with them. So the Aeroplane Jelly tune adjusts well to the tempo of a walk or a trot, but it's even throughout with no inbuilt internal tempo changes...while _Summertime_ again has timing that is a bit more complex than the steady beat of a horse at a particular gait...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Boy was he a beauty! Maybe that is it, he is like the horses I talk about in my journals that aren’t here being ridden by us. Ours are so particularly different too. It’s is funny to have such different horses in the corral. Every one is shockingly different from the others. It’s not really a sorrel brigade any longer.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*SECOND INDEPENDENT RIDE ON JULIAN*

The weather was cold and horrible and I really wanted to spend the afternoon in bed on our day off (I could sleep for a week right now), but there was a break in the rain mid-afternoon and the dog needed a walk, not to mention the humans some fresh air, so Brett made me a cup of coffee for chemical assistance and I peeled myself off my horizontal position and ventured outdoors for the first time that day.

Julian was right down by the tie rail already and let me catch him without a carrot. I unrugged, groomed and tacked him up, then Brett and I discussed today's aims. We decided to let the dog come with us today - last time I'd chained her up by her dog-house because I didn't want her yapping and circling him on our first ride. Brett also thought it was a good idea if we did the valley floor lap the other way around today, and I decided it was a good idea to ride as much of that as possible without getting on and off him today. (Maybe next time, as we do want to continue the standing still while mounting and dismounting practice, and also bomb-proof the mounts and dismounts. Today though, the weather was not the sort that invited more than a quick lap around the block.)

We walked past the farm dam with the dog running large circles around the rest of the herd and us, and the donkeys getting excited and taking off down the track behind the house in their funny rocking-horse gallop. By the time we were in the middle meadow it was just us humans, the dog and Julian, and because Jess was bush-bashing to the right of us, making crackling sounds without being seen herself, the horse was a bit snorty and I walked him next to us until he settled.

Once he was fine I got on his back, and we rode down the swamp track.

Photos are helpful at this stage - the saddle is slipping a bit much and it's still off to the left immediately after mounting in the photo above. My back is slightly less skewed today but I'm not balanced yet in this moment because I've not centred the saddle back yet.

Brett overtook us to take some photos from the front. Overall we had him walking behind us more than in front today, just to change another thing up. This little series shows you how the horse is reacting and also the dog's typical behaviour when she is urging a horse on to run with her. She doesn't understand that this horse isn't at Sunsmart's old training level but just starting out, and we won't be doing that for a while yet.





You can probably see I'm cold and part of me would rather be in bed and that the weight of my head is a trial to the rest of me on a day like today, but here we are, walking the dog and doing a little practice on the horse to get him a little more used to being ridden, and to different places in different directions in different kinds of weathers and with the dog circling him and crashing through the bushes.

Today I wanted to walk him quietly on our 25-minute lap, and to practice stopping and starting from the saddle. He is great at this on the halter and from the ground, and was OK at this in harness, where it's not such a frequently used manoeuvre - horses in that line of work actually don't tend to come to a complete halt anywhere except at the tie rail, although Julian had practice at stopping in harness because he was the horse my father used to drive around the track first, then get out of the cart to pick up the gum nuts on the ground while the horse waited. So Julian was actually used to the concept of being asked to stop and wait before I got him, unlike Sunsmart.

We halted a couple of times along the way, but not so many times that it became irritating. It's more important to get it happening and the horse relaxed about it than doing this frequently. As is typical with that stage of training, the first couple of rides, when we're starting to put together rein, voice and seat aids for the first time, the horse can end up with his nose in the air momentarily in confusion when asked to halt without the ground person halting next to him. This happened a couple of times today, but not badly and not for long - he kind of "grabbed the reins" and tried to keep going forward and I resisted, and gave when he gave, and pretty soon he got the idea that you can halt and do it without popping your nose in the air. Practice will make us better and by next week we'll be out of the nose-poking zone.

The next series is me trying to circle him left from the saddle for the first time ever, and then halt him facing the fence at our south boundary.








So on the whole that wasn't a bad first try. We got there, and he didn't rush - I like that he is unhurried, and that when confused, he tends to slow down or stop what he's doing rather than hurry or leap around (he does stomp his feet sometimes when irritated though). It's not a square halt, but it's an acceptable halt for this stage of training, and I like the way he's carrying himself and he's trying to figure new things out calmly.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Next I'm trying to turn him left towards Brett, and 180 degrees around into the sand track. With a trained riding horse this would be volte-left, but this is an ex-harness horse who is still a bit confounded by the idea of not turning like a supertanker under load. When in harness, they have to allow for the turning circle of the cart, and it takes a while to get ex-harness horses used to the idea that they don't have to do that anymore when working under saddle. We did tons of tight turns in the groundwork already, but he's still reverting to type under load, as they always will for the first couple of rides.




He'll pop his head into the air less and less when he gets used to it.

We rode all the way to the end of the sand track, and there I got off, and we got an amusing sequence of him trying to rub his head on me and me stepping behind his head to prevent it etc.




And a bit of stage drama to finish! 






Brett says, "If it's not raining Saturday morning, we'll do another one then!"


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC, sorry to interrupt the riding pictures (which I'm loving!) with house pictures. But I was waiting to have a proper amount of time to really take in the attic plastering project you posted a few days back. It's really beautiful- you say it's "rustic," but to me it looks just as it should. I can almost feel the coolness that it must give to the room in your hottest weather.

I haven't posted renovation pictures in a really long time and can't remember quite what I posted when I shared last time. In some ways, it seems like we're in a Covid-induced state of suspended animation when it comes to the house. We have a great relationship with a couple of local contractors (who I think would self-identify as "aging hippies") who are so talented but sometimes struggle to see things through to completion. We ask them to work with us when there are parts of a project we just don't have the equipment or skills to do ourselves (we've basically concluded that we are really good at the demolition and cosmetic parts of projects, but when precision skills are involved- like building a room back up from the studs, moving around doors and windows, electrical wiring, etc. - we need their help). For a whole host of Covid related reasons, including the fact that our area has been steadily overrun with second home owners flooding in from New York City and Boston, making steady forward progress has been almost impossible. So we have a few rooms that are "finished" and feel like we live in them, and then a few more rooms that are in some stage of renovation that is now stalled waiting for an electrician or a plumber or a window that's been on backorder forever to arrive. I guess I'm whining a little bit, because it's hard feeling like you're living in a workzone rather than a cozy home, but I also realize how fortunate we are to even be in the position of doing any of this.

At any rate, here are a few transformations I can share. This is part of the upstairs, which was a series of three rooms painted dingy shade of yellow walls (at least what wasn't covered in American flag and eagles wallpaper ). The original wood floors had been covered up by a sort of plywood platform that had been built up by several inches and then covered over with indoor-outdoor carpeting. You might be asking "Why??" Wish I had an answer! But taking the time to remove that bizarre flooring and expose the wide wood planks underneath gave us some momentum because it felt so worthwhile to discover something so nice hidden underneath junk! How we found it
























One of the rooms is now lovely husband's work-from-home office. The room next to this has the same floor and wall color, and is a reading area that also has a window seat looking out to the forest behind the house. Very peaceful.








First set of pictures are what we found when we peeled back the walls and ceilings in an old bathroom that was full of tile flecked with gold (too bad it doesn't really come through in the pics) and an awful pink bathtub. And now it's turned into this updated bathroom.
















(ignore the cardboard on the floor, we were painting trim and didn’t want to get it on the tile)
In the gutted photos, you can see the original (or at least nearly original) underlying tree trunk beams with the bark used as part of an old roof above them!

















There was also a crumbling laundry room downstairs, with a random offgassing toilet stuck in the corner behind the door. Next door to that, was a strange little tiny bedroom which barely fit a child sized bed and dresser and not much else. We turned the tiny bedroom into a laundry room, and are in the process of converting the previous laundry room to a proper first floor bathroom. I can’t seem to find “before” pictures, but here is the laundry room and in progress bathroom…
















A lot of the rest of the recent projects are what we refer to as the "unsexy money," spent on new windows and doors that don't look very different from what was there before, but are light years ahead in terms of energy efficiency. It made a hugely notable difference this winter. We could actually stand in the kitchen making dinner and not be blasted by cold air flowing right through the windows!

After finishing the new bathroom downstairs, we will then have two more rooms that need attention before considering this massive project DONE and finally ready to hang artwork and photos on the walls (I hate living between all these blank walls!). The dining room is the last one due for new doors and windows (everything is seriously backordered), with a little bit of wallpaper to come down and everything needing a fresh coat of paint. On the other side of the dining room, there is a funny room that has an outside entrance and connects to the garage. It has a stone floor laid directly over the dirt, so it is cold in the winter and humid in the summer because of the lack of a proper barrier between the floor and the ground. We got some shocking quotes for how much it would cost to rip out the old floor, excavate down and install a proper barrier, and relay the floor, so we've decided not to do that. Instead we're thinking of that room as more of a "three seasons" room that we probably won't use in the depths of winter. That said, it has the most beautiful fireplace in there (which a previous owner had unfortunately converted to one of those fake flame gas powered monstrosities), so we are going to remove all the gas lines and shore up the chimney to make it wood-burning again, which likely will make the late fall, and even maybe winter, more comfortable. Once that happens, and we repaint and rearrange some furniture, I think it might actually turn into a nice space. Right now it's being used as a woodshop and storage for all the materials for renovations elsewhere, so I don't have much of a a feel for the room except walking through it in and out of the house.

I would be lying if I said this hasn't been exhausting. I can't wait for it to be done and feel like our home. But we're closer now than we were this time last year, so I guess that's something of a victory.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

SueC said:


> him trying to rub his head on me and me stepping behind his head to prevent it


FWIW, Bandit and I have an established habit. At end of ride, when I take his bridle off, I'm expected to hold up my bent arm, with my forearm vertical. And brace. Bandit then uses my forearm as a rubbing post. He sometimes pushes on my arm HARD (hence the bracing) but also often closes his eye and rubs that part of his face against me. It usually takes him 30-60 seconds for a good rub. Then he stops.

He seems to view it as a treat and as a well-deserved thank you for the ride. I always find it fascinating when he rubs an eye or his ear against my arm - usually gently, but sometimes with surprising force. But since HE determines how much force, it works. And the bridle needs to come off first. Otherwise I get bruises.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Bones wraps his neck around you and goes to town. I didn’t let him start that, although I always rub their foreheads and ears and they all really get into it. Big girl started the dramatic over the top rubbing.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Very funny, @Knave - I remember when I would do that as a teenager! 

Managing my spinal injury means no uncontrolled unbalancing forces on me, such as from a 20kg horse head with a 480kg bulldozer behind it! 

They do know that once we get to the tie rail there is a big bath towel with which I will attend to their head to their heart's content and that I am very good at getting all their itchy spots.

And even a sponge on hot days!



Pre-breakfast milk and Weetbix here at 4am, which has been known to happen with filling but lowish carbohydrate meals such as the thick 8-veggie soup with tomatoes, pumpkin, potatoes, kale, beans, broad bean kernels from the garden plus herbed meatballs as floaters. Couldn't fit in enough apple crumble afterwards because of the bulk! So here I am, pre-breakfasting before more ...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*LONG MEANDERING RENOVATION/OWNER BUILDER NUTTERS CHAT*

@egrogan, thank you for that detailed update and the great photos, I loved reading and looking! 



egrogan said:


> @SueC, sorry to interrupt the riding pictures (which I'm loving!) with house pictures. But I was waiting to have a proper amount of time to really take in the attic plastering project you posted a few days back. It's really beautiful- you say it's "rustic," but to me it looks just as it should. I can almost feel the coolness that it must give to the room in your hottest weather.


It's really funny - when you're actually plastering your mindset changes and you're trying to make it as even as possible, and to finish it smoothly, and to get all the door and window reveal lines dead straight. Of course we're amateur plasterers (yes, even after plastering our own place inside and out with three coats of lime plaster) so this isn't going to happen, but if you look at the UK where many home-owners of yore did their own lime plastering in wattle-and-daub type constructions, that's exactly what that kind of plastering looks like, and the imperfections actually give it its charm and non-industrial finish.

So usually I despair at the end of a third-coat plastering day and the pool floating to finish (which stretches into the next day because the wall has to be nearly green dry for that bit), and go away and don't look at it again for a week or two. Eventually when the rest of the room gets done and the furniture etc goes in, I don't look so closely anymore and it feels lovely, and the guests say, "Oh, but this is a lovely finish!" - even though if I look closely I can see all the things we were trying to straighten out better than how it ended up, and things we forgot to do... 😁

The thick walls do give us nice insulation and great bushfire resistance, but the ceiling insulation is actually more crucial for keeping places warm in winter and cool in summer, and ours is R4 directly on the ceiling (installed by yours truly and I left no gaps, not even tiny little ones - which is where it was much better than the average "professional" installation in Australia...even our main-ceiling plasterboarder remarked it was the best job he'd seen) and an R1.5 blanket directly under the zincalume roof - which slants south (away from the sun in this hemisphere) to decrease its exposure to summer sun and to allow for raked ceilings to the north of the house, which help with venting heat at night in summer...

Of course insulation is only one part of the self-regulating house equation thermally - also you need the right amount of thermal mass in the right places, ditto glazing, and to have eaves that automatically ensure the summer sun doesn't enter the house while the winter sun comes all the way in...we got that very much right in our design and now reap the benefits by having a year-round comfortable house with less than 20% of the energy consumption as the average Australian household - and that energy, we make onsite through solar panels, excepting four camping bottles of gas a year for my cooking (i.e. a total of $120 a year in fossil fuel inputs, the rest is renewable, including the clean-up wood we use from our own place to run the wood fire on average two evenings a week in winter).

Here's a midsummer photo from the outside - this is when the grass is at its rattiest, but the native bushes, lavender etc are well-adapted to our summer drought:

And one from the inside in our mid-winter (we don't get your snow, but we do get hard inland frosts), with the sun coming in to heat up the exposed mass floors:

...which is 95% of our home heating, right there. ...and though the outside is a bit "modern" for my taste, I do love the interior and living in that...



egrogan said:


> I haven't posted renovation pictures in a really long time and can't remember quite what I posted when I shared last time. In some ways, it seems like we're in a Covid-induced state of suspended animation when it comes to the house. We have a great relationship with a couple of local contractors (who I think would self-identify as "aging hippies") who are so talented but sometimes struggle to see things through to completion. We ask them to work with us when there are parts of a project we just don't have the equipment or skills to do ourselves (we've basically concluded that we are really good at the demolition and cosmetic parts of projects, but when precision skills are involved- like building a room back up from the studs, moving around doors and windows, electrical wiring, etc. - we need their help). For a whole host of Covid related reasons, including the fact that our area has been steadily overrun with second home owners flooding in from New York City and Boston, making steady forward progress has been almost impossible. So we have a few rooms that are "finished" and feel like we live in them, and then a few more rooms that are in some stage of renovation that is now stalled waiting for an electrician or a plumber or a window that's been on backorder forever to arrive. I guess I'm whining a little bit, because it's hard feeling like you're living in a workzone rather than a cozy home, but I also realize how fortunate we are to even be in the position of doing any of this.


Yeah, we lived in a work zone between the start of 2013 and the middle of 2016 - that's how long it took us to finish the downstairs. We lived in the rooms that were habitable, and gradually had rooms that were finished we could move into properly while finishing the rest of the ground floor work. It was a long haul and sometimes we thought we would never finish, but eventually we did.

And you're right about being fortunate, we feel that too. Australia in the past decade especially has gotten into a housing affordability crisis, because of real estate speculation and tax breaks for people who have investment properties driving up prices. First-home buyers are increasingly priced out of the market and are now struggling even to pay historically-high rents (compared to income), heat or cool their poorly designed rentals, afford their commutes, and eat properly, let alone save up for substantial deposits. It's a systemic problem - most lower-to-middle-class people's incomes goes on rent (or mortgage), electricity, water, supermarket shopping, fuel, and car maintenance, with little if any left after that (in part because of poor house designs and a dislike for driving small fuel-economic cars), and many people get caught in credit card debts. And now food prices are going up, because of the mega-fires we've had here lately, and the mega-floods (e.g. $10 for a head of iceberg lettuce in the Eastern states just now, which is 10x normal), and the increasing electricity prices, and the war in Ukraine etc etc.

So we were really lucky to have landed on our feet here. The five years of building our own house were the best financial investment we ever made, as well as the best sanity, lifestyle and food security investment. We grow so much of our own food - fruit, vegetables, honey, beef - that we are pretty insulated from the cost hikes, plus we don't depend on any external suppliers for electricity or water and don't have utilities bills other than $120 for those four bottles of camping gas a year for cooking. The interest repayments on what we borrowed for the build sat on under $900 a month for years and even with the current hike, are not going above $1,200 a month, for which you could only rent very basic, small, dingy, mouldy, cold-in-winter, hot-in-summer rentals even in our regional area. Petrol costs are going up but Brett is looking to change back to a working from home job after he gets long-service leave from his current employer in a year or so. He's planning on enjoying that long-service leave.

We're comparatively cash-poor, but significantly self-sufficient, and have a far better life, better food and more time for each other than when we were double-income professionals. We work somewhat less hours all up but we work together on things and most importantly, we spend zero time either suffering in an overly cold or hot house or working just to pay bills to keep temperatures in the house comfortable, or to pay back an excessive mortgage, or to shop at supermarkets because we can't afford to go to specialist food shops or support more expensive, but local and socially fair, businesses.

While when you're stuck in the system doing the standard thing, most of your money goes to people with more wealth than yourself: The corporations and other super-rich who don't pay fair shares of tax and stash money in the Cayman Islands etc, and whose production systems keep people in wage slavery and ruin the biosphere.

So we're avoiding a lot more of this as well; we now grow much of our own food, barter or buy from people who also locally produce food, have more financial power to buy local and fair-trade and things with higher environmental and social justice standards in production, and to support local businesses and "little people" for things we need to buy, instead of mostly corporates. Our mortgage and general banking is with a community not-for-profit bank who ploughs the profits left after paying staff etc back into the community. Our superannuation is with an ethical fund that avoids investing in arms trading, fossil fuels, etc and instead supports small businesses, green ventures, peace initiatives, fair trade etc. It's not perfect but much better than average. We still pay insurance to a corporate because nobody else insures rural properties, and we do it through gritted teeth. Ditto we still buy fuel for the car, but mostly off an independent family-owned local business (where we pay a little extra) - they still get their product from corporates of course, but at least the outlet is owned by local people.

Which helps address the growing wealth inequality, environmental crisis etc.

















from First Dog on the Moon | The Guardian



egrogan said:


> At any rate, here are a few transformations I can share. This is part of the upstairs, which was a series of three rooms painted dingy shade of yellow walls (at least what wasn't covered in American flag and eagles wallpaper ).


Yes, I vividly remember the pictures you posted at the time! 




egrogan said:


> The original wood floors had been covered up by a sort of plywood platform that had been built up by several inches and then covered over with indoor-outdoor carpeting. You might be asking "Why??" Wish I had an answer! But taking the time to remove that bizarre flooring and expose the wide wood planks underneath gave us some momentum because it felt so worthwhile to discover something so nice hidden underneath junk! How we found it
> View attachment 1130421
> 
> View attachment 1130422
> ...


Wow!

I have an idea why. It's also happened in a lot of historical houses here. If the floor boards eventually ended up not dead level because of subsidence in the stumps etc, a cheaper option than re-stumping the house was to simply put a level floor on top of the not-level floor. Mostly this happened in the 1950s and 60s when there was a vogue for modernism and modern materials, and floorboards went out of fashion. So, people glued _linoleum_ to their wooden floorboards or covered them in carpet. So if someone had a floor that wasn't level or needed work, it was easy to put a level plywood or MDF floor over the top and then the finish flooring _de jour_.

Another reason people did things like this is because boards shrank and left gaps, through which vermin and insects could get in the house. The plywood/MDF sheets would have made a sealed floor, which was also handy for stopping draughts. Plus you could insulate between the old and new floors if you wanted.

But yeah, when people renovate houses here and find those gorgeous timber floors, they often make them into finish floors again and if they want to insulate etc, they do it by putting that material in _under_ the boards, from underneath the house (as in Australia these tend to be stumped houses with cavities beneath them).

I'm assuming you had good knee pads for that floor work? 




egrogan said:


> One of the rooms is now lovely husband's work-from-home office. The room next to this has the same floor and wall color, and is a reading area that also has a window seat looking out to the forest behind the house. Very peaceful.
> View attachment 1130420


That looks really lovely and serene. I like the sage type green on the wall too, very natural-looking. (At least I'm reading that as green!)

It's all worth it when you get a finished room like that.

Our reading area is part of the open-plan kitchen/dining/living area - and displays what we consider a correct screen-to-bookshelf ratio... 

But the attic is supposed to have a little reading nook in it too when we finish it, and function as a bit of a retreat space when we have guests, and they are, for example, watching a movie downstairs etc.




egrogan said:


> First set of pictures are what we found when we peeled back the walls and ceilings in an old bathroom that was full of tile flecked with gold (too bad it doesn't really come through in the pics) and an awful pink bathtub. And now it's turned into this updated bathroom.
> View attachment 1130413
> 
> View attachment 1130414
> ...


Painting trim, window frames etc takes ages! We have timber windows too and actually, the sun-facing ones are due sanding and re-staining/sealing this year. That's a bit of work, but we love wood...(and thank goodness for podcasts!)

I remember the "before" bathroom and its _pink_ tub. I wonder if that was a 50s thing and someone loved their wife very much.  That's a nice transformation. ...did you actually paint/refinish the tub? It looks the same apart from the colour. We're very curious - we didn't know that was possible. A friend with a historic house in Albany actually had garish tiles in her bathroom and ended up painting them white with special tile paint, and you honestly couldn't tell they had been refinished...bit of work but!

And did you rip the old tiles down, or were you able to tile on top of the old tiles? Sometimes that's possible, if the tiles are thin enough etc.




egrogan said:


> In the gutted photos, you can see the original (or at least nearly original) underlying tree trunk beams with the bark used as part of an old roof above them!
> View attachment 1130415
> 
> 
> View attachment 1130416


That is amazing! So this used to be a single-storey shingle-roofed house, that later on had another storey added on top? Or is this a side extension?




egrogan said:


> There was also a crumbling laundry room downstairs, with a random offgassing toilet stuck in the corner behind the door.


There's two words you never want to see in the same sentence: _Toilet_ and _offgassing_. 😲

Actually we need to fix a plumbing problem. In winter, when the greywater tank fills high because it takes longer for the French drain to work, we sometimes get the air from above the tank refluxing into our bathroom on cold nights, as the level in the tank increases when someone is taking a shower, doing washing etc. That is a hideous smell...it's not blackwater, but it still smells horrible. There is a pipe vent outside our bathroom that's meant to prevent that happening, but it's not working properly...

Meanwhile we can pump out the tank now and again so it's less disgusting-smelling. In theory. Or fix the problem properly.




egrogan said:


> Next door to that, was a strange little tiny bedroom which barely fit a child sized bed and dresser and not much else. We turned the tiny bedroom into a laundry room, and are in the process of converting the previous laundry room to a proper first floor bathroom. I can’t seem to find “before” pictures, but here is the laundry room and in progress bathroom…
> View attachment 1130418
> 
> View attachment 1130419


That light grey (/brownish grey?) colour on the walls really makes the spring-green foliage outside the window pop!

Brett says that's the poshest laundry he has ever seen - with a rug and table lamp too! 

Renovating an old house is so lovely for preserving and bringing out character you don't get in modern mainstream homes, which to me seem like Legoland, with even any attractive features more like facade built for stage sets...




egrogan said:


> A lot of the rest of the recent projects are what we refer to as the "unsexy money," spent on new windows and doors that don't look very different from what was there before, but are light years ahead in terms of energy efficiency. It made a hugely notable difference this winter. We could actually stand in the kitchen making dinner and not be blasted by cold air flowing right through the windows!


That's progress. And I've heard it said it costs the same to renovate a historic house to good aesthetic, structural and comfort standards as to build one from scratch! But I love both these ideas - building lasting houses that are worth building, and renovating houses from a time when that was the idea, trouble-shooting its problems while also preserving that history and unique character. It's great when people take the time and effort to restore an old gem like that. Modern houses are often soulless and have inbuilt obsolescence...




egrogan said:


> After finishing the new bathroom downstairs, we will then have two more rooms that need attention before considering this massive project DONE and finally ready to hang artwork and photos on the walls (I hate living between all these blank walls!). The dining room is the last one due for new doors and windows (everything is seriously backordered), with a little bit of wallpaper to come down and everything needing a fresh coat of paint. On the other side of the dining room, there is a funny room that has an outside entrance and connects to the garage. It has a stone floor laid directly over the dirt, so it is cold in the winter and humid in the summer because of the lack of a proper barrier between the floor and the ground. We got some shocking quotes for how much it would cost to rip out the old floor, excavate down and install a proper barrier, and relay the floor, so we've decided not to do that. Instead we're thinking of that room as more of a "three seasons" room that we probably won't use in the depths of winter. That said, it has the most beautiful fireplace in there (which a previous owner had unfortunately converted to one of those fake flame gas powered monstrosities), so we are going to remove all the gas lines and shore up the chimney to make it wood-burning again, which likely will make the late fall, and even maybe winter, more comfortable. Once that happens, and we repaint and rearrange some furniture, I think it might actually turn into a nice space. Right now it's being used as a woodshop and storage for all the materials for renovations elsewhere, so I don't have much of a a feel for the room except walking through it in and out of the house.


Would it be possible to waterproof the stone floor, insulate on top of it, then build a new finish floor on top, e.g. timber boards? Is there enough ceiling height etc?




egrogan said:


> I would be lying if I said this hasn't been exhausting. I can't wait for it to be done and feel like our home. But we're closer now than we were this time last year, so I guess that's something of a victory.


Yeah, it's a long ride. We have one wall to go on the attic and then the flooring, trim etc, and the balcony, but I prefer not to think about all of that, just about the next step, and then the next step, etc. Right now we are re-charging batteries again and probably not plastering on the weekend - we had guests this week who are leaving today, and Brett volunteered to run a flu shot/COVID booster clinic tomorrow afternoon, so that would only leave Sunday and then for him to go to work the next day after another inevitable late night, and a Monday at that, just no. So next Thursday it is.

How are you guys doing recharge with your jobs, the renovation, the horses, the outdoors maintenance tasks etc etc? We fell down a lot in the sense we would overwork, then crash. And the longer we did it, the more we crashed. So eventually we decided that we have two days a week pure recreation no matter what. Of course, when we're finishing the attic or have some other major project outdoors that falls by the wayside again...


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Great to see you posting here again. I just started reading. Lots to catch up on!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*COLD WINDY DE-SPOOKING / MONKEY TRAINING SESSION AND DOG WALK*

How hard is it to get out of bed on a cold, windy winter's morning on a Saturday, when you're both recovering from doing a bit too much and your husband has volunteered to go to work on a Saturday afternoon so people can get their flu jabs and COVID boosters? (Speaking of, I had my second booster just over a week back, same time as my flu shot, because I'm on a priority plan due to that vocal cord paralysis of mine, which makes me susceptible to aspirating things when I'm horizontal. My husband hasn't officially come up for eligibility for a subsequent booster yet, because paradoxically medical staff haven't been advanced to that list yet, but since they often have leftover doses from vials of booster at the end of the day, the nurses tend to stick the spare doses into the arms of their work colleagues no questions asked, as it's preferable to putting it down the sink. So that's how Brett got slipped booster number two a week ago.)








_Burnout!_ 

The answer to that question for us this morning was: Very, very. We really luxuriated under the covers, and the more the cold wind blew outside, the more we snuggled into our warm, lovely nest, drinking cup after cup of tea and imbibing porridge (watery porridge like horse food for him, milky porridge with honey and sliced apple for me).

As the weather wasn't the sort to make you want to get up and go riding, we decided that could hopefully happen tomorrow, and once Brett went to work, I took Julian for a walk on the lead instead of riding him. I needed exercise, the dog wanted a walk, and really, it's good to do something low-key and different every now and then with a horse you're starting to ride.

I wish I'd had a camera, because there were five donkeys going single-file behind us as we turned into the bush track behind the house. It's a hilarious sight...

What I have for you instead though are some photos I've tracked down in our computer vault, of Julian and me doing the same route three years ago, in April, at the end of a summer drought and before the season break, so you're just going to have to paint it all green in your imaginations...

This is us on the other side of our southern boundary fence, with the donkeys on our side. I have permission to walk my dog, ride horses etc on this neighbour's block - they even put a gate in for me so I could get a horse through, and then wouldn't let me pay for the materials! 😎 But if they need help, we go and give them a hand, and sometimes I've gone and fed orphaned calves for them, or trimmed cow feet.
















Ben and Nelly, Julian and me

Once across the gate, I headed straight up to the large open pasture, where he could look at cows across a fence today. I'd like to start riding him in this block soon, so it's good to revisit it again in-hand.
























At the edge of this pasture, adjoining the bushland, were "spooky" fallen tree limbs and a couple of uprooted trees from a storm long ago. We examined these at leisure. I always encourage horses to sniff these things and I will touch such objects and sit on them myself to show them it is safe. One of the uprooted trees was as tall as me across the root base that was sticking up into the air.

He's not usually worried about these things anymore, but on a cold windy day horse nervousness seems to peak, so that's a good time for de-spooking work. Julian only spooked once today, when something crackled in the bushes - actually our dog - did a 2-metre leap and then that was the end of it. I am watching such spooks with interest because sooner or later I will have to ride them.

Off we went after that to the dam in the bushland across from the open pasture - only of course, it was much fuller today!








We'd not been there in months. The dog went swimming and Julian and I explored the shore before going back up the bank.
















I'm always encouraging him to put his head down and sniff things. Julian takes a keen interest in his surroundings anyway and likes to explore.

After that we headed east, deeper into the bush, and then the track veered north back towards our southern boundary. There is another dam in that location, just across the fence from us, and we watched Jess retrieve sticks from the water before going up the big sandbank to one side of it, which is also a handy lookout.
















Three years ago, when these photos were taken, this sandbank was much lower than it is now! It's been elevated to about 5 metres high, with a slope you can walk up on one side and steep banks on the other three. Horses always seem to like hanging out on this sandy lookout - you get quite a view from up there.

Here's a post-excavation shot of this dam, where you can see the current sand bank properly, to the left of the dam.








From there it's a short walk back along the boundary to our gate, and soon we were back across on our side. We did not go back the way we came, but went west and up the hill. On our side of the fence, things are super-familiar to the horse, so as on the way out this morning, we did some trotting on the lead, and practicing walk-trot, trot-walk transitions and various walking and trotting speeds, which also gave me a good workout, because this horse can move and I like to see him do so. He already understands that I am no match for him for speed, but I will run flat-out for him, and there are few other things in this world that induce me to do that, besides horses.

I will have to make it a habit to take this horse out into the most horribly windy conditions as winter deepens, because that's the best de-spooking weather!

We got back to the main meadow and I took his halter off and thanked him for his work. He hung around with me a bit, then joined his grazing companions in the field. Tomorrow's forecast is for rain, but I hope to be able to get at least a little ride in.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*THE WEATHER!*

...did not get better, in fact, here's the summary situation from our Bureau of Meteorology:








...we're just north of Albany...



> Weather Situation: An intense low pressure system will result in a risk of damaging winds across parts of southwestern WA. This low will track eastward along the southern coast overnight before weakening later on Monday.
> 
> DAMAGING WINDS averaging 60 to 70 km/h with peak gusts of around 100 km/h are likely through parts of southwestern WA. Winds will continue to strengthen about the South West district this evening, spreading to the remainder of the warning area overnight.
> 
> ...


...and...



> 120 km/h wind gust recorded at Cape Leeuwin at 6:06 pm.
> 
> 96 km/h wind gust recorded at Cape Naturaliste at 10:22 pm.


So no riding this morning either - the horses are happy in their rugs and with these kinds of conditions, Julian can de-spook himself. (I'm just thinking how much less spooky 24/7 outdoors horses are in bad weather, than those animals kept in barns unless humans take them out...)

We will, however, don our rain gear and take the dog for an invigorating walk through our woodlands this morning (Brett doesn't have to leave until 9am Mondays) - and yesterday we managed to get in a blustery 90-minute coastal cliffs hike between Muttonbird Island and Grasmere.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

...may I ask you something, @bsms? It's about a military situation that distresses me, and has done since early this year. Because I find it incredibly distressing to see civilians bombed in their own homes, hear of women and children raped, civilians shot down in the street, brutalised corpses of teenage girls hung off trees for their relatives to find, and just the whole concept of anyone thinking they have any kind of justification to do things like this.

And to see the so-called leaders who instigate all of this lie even to their own people, including the ones they send out as cannon-fodder. I've been watching clips done of conversations of Russian POWs with a Ukrainian journalist. There was this 23-year-old who, when he was interviewed, mentioned that he'd been in astronaut training school and then his first job offer was as a reconnaissance officer with the army. Then he found himself in Ukraine after they were allegedly just doing military drill in Belarus and he was just boggled. He didn't even have maps - his commander had these. He managed to get out of this operation when their tank malfunctioned and everyone else on his team scarpered. He surrendered to civilians, and is now a head-scratching POW.

His situation, and those of other minor-army-figures I saw interviewed, reminded me of my grandfather, who was a regular policeman when Hitler conscripted him into his army. He had no choice in the matter and ended up in a Siberian prison camp, which he barely survived. I think of all these young people who are just chess-pieces to psychopaths with power, and all the unnecessary loss of life on both sides. Obviously I feel for the Ukrainians, but I also feel for those young Russians who were duped into this war, betrayed by people "higher up" - including people who joined the army because they needed a job, and never thought that they could be turned to evil purposes because of it.

Anyway - I was a pacifist when a young person, but I support the Ukrainians being given major hardware to be able to defend their own territory and people from the invading army. I was surprised by how well they did early in the war considering this is David vs Goliath, but am currently worried because of the continued Russian assault on Eastern Ukraine and their territorial gains there.

And also I am majorly bothered by the fact that Russia has war ships sitting in Ukrainian and International waters, which are stopping Ukrainian grain export to countries that are now vulnerable to famine. I wonder why the international community allowed this particular thing - why there aren't international ships defending the passage of trade ships, as there have been in other similar situations around the world in the past. Personally I think the Russian ships ought to be cleared out of Ukrainian waters and not be tolerated interfering with international shipping in international waters. But I have absolutely no military background, so I wondered if I could get your thoughts on this, and on stopping this horrible situation.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'll give part of my answer now, maybe with more to follow. For now, the part about "_And to see the so-called leaders who instigate all of this lie even to their own people, including the ones they send out as cannon-fodder._"

It has been years since I read it, but "Hitler's Willing Executioners" shaped a lot of my thought since reading it. From memory....He pointed out a paradox: A man who had just finished killing young Jewish children was pressured by his higher-ups to lie about something. His reply? "_I'm a man of honor. I would NEVER lie!_" That fascinated him. The paradox. The man had just gunned down young children, but was shocked someone would ask him to shade the truth.

IIRC, the author concluded that the previous 50-100 years (and arguably 2000) had dehumanized Jews in much of European (not just German!) thought, to the point that men who were in many ways honorable men could kill them without qualms - even kill them and feel GOOD about themselves!

It certainly wasn't just Jews in Germany. Southern Baptist became "Southern" Baptists over the issue of slavery. In their defense, for thousands of years and all around the world, slavery was accepted. The movement to abolish it, led by England (and supported by many in the North) was radical. And it led to paradoxes too. I don't believe Thomas Jefferson had sex with slaves (and no, the genetic tests did NOT and could not prove he did!) - but Jefferson both hated slavery and practiced it. The Rwanda Massacre. I've read books by some of the survivors telling of their neighbors hacking their sisters to death with machetes! When we dehumanize another race, another ethnic group, another tribe, political opponents, we unleash the viciousness of the human race against ourselves.

I'm afraid of what I see in America. We aren't supposed to discuss COVID on this forum and I support that. I don't think it is possible to have a fully rational, dispassionate conversation with random people about what happened. And I don't care which mitigation effort is up for discussion or which side someone takes. The demonization of the other side - committed by BOTH sides - and the politicization (on both sides) of every aspect scares me. I have zero desire to give examples because even giving examples would create anger from many - again, on both sides - over what should be health decisions.

The appeal is to our emotions, and human emotion is a scary thing. It doesn't take much to move from demonizing an opponent to believing in killing the opponent - such as the guy arrested outside Justice Kavanaugh's house in an assassination plot to support abortion, or the murder of civil rights leaders in the 60s.

Governments lie to their people all the time. I'd argue the government approved food recommendations are lies - so far separated from any observable reality as to be a lie. Or at least badly mistaken. I'm certain that "Iraq may soon have nukes" was both false and honestly believed in by the US and European governments. I totally believe the Russian soldiers have no idea what the truth is - and I sympathize. I spent 25 years in the military. I had access to classified information. But decisions to engage in combat aren't clear cut logic. How many here remember the Kosovo war fought by NATO? Was that necessary? In hindsight, we know that we should have opposed Hitler much earlier. But I've been reading about the lead up to WW2 and in the aftermath of WW *ONE*, with all the lies told, can I blame people for being cynical about warnings of Hitler's aggression?

My Dad was in WW2, Korea and died in Vietnam. It was very hard to get him to say ANYTHING about war. From what little he did say, he viewed war as a terrible evil. It might be necessary at times, but always a terrible evil. And who do you believe in the build up to war? He didn't know. He tried to avoid going to Vietnam. Once there, he concluded it was a just war. He died convinced it was a fight worth fighting, even though he was a full Colonel who opposed it before being sent there. He had many good friends who ahd been there, had access to classified information, opposed the war before going, and then concluded it was right! And my Dad was a very intelligent man. But he didn't _know_.

Sorry for the long response to just a part of your question, @SueC. I wish I knew the "right answer" to so many issues but I've come to distrust my own judgment, let alone the judgment of the idiots (in every party and side) who seem to rise to positions of power. I'm afraid for our future. I see so much emotion and so little reason. Even here, discussing horses, I see a lot of dogmatic, emotional responses that reject the idea of searching for evidence and balancing one theory against another. I'm very highly opinionated, but I enjoy hearing reasons and evidence from someone who disagrees with me. But when I look at society around me, I see appeals to emotion and appeals to hate your opponent. I don't think I'm actually cynical. But I'm increasingly afraid. Maybe I've been reading too much about the period between WW1 and WW2, but what I see in many countries involving politics scares me. I feel like I'm watching a storm approaching and can't do anything about it.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

This is off the main topic, but I appreciate the previous posts. Sometimes I feel annoyed that I can't make a decision and move firmly forward, especially when it comes to a horse like Hero. But the posts make me think: isn't it better to be able to change when the evidence seems to change, and you don't feel strongly supported enough by facts to make a sound decision? I don't want to make decisions based on emotion. I want to keep trying theories and searching for evidence (hopefully mainly from the vet soon) to help me make a good decision rather than moving forward strongly with something that might be completely wrong. 

Life gets confusing too, and I think often things are not as black and white as people want them to be. People who want to control others or sway their thinking tend to oversimplify things. This is definitely in the horse world too. 

I was thinking about how easy it is to make things appear the way you want them to, when I was looking at still photos I took from my video riding Hero recently. Showing the whole story, you see what really happened. But I could easily cut out all the bad parts and make it look completely different. And I could capture stills and post on the internet that I know how to get a horse to collect and be obedient, and promote some dogma about how to do that. Then others would try and be frustrated, because what I really did behind the scenes was far different. Yet people blindly follow trainers and concepts even though they haven't been in person to watch and see what was really happening.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Thank you both for your considered and thoughtful posts. You know what I find paradoxical about what I see particularly in US culture, where this seems to be at its apex compared to Australia, the UK, Europe? That at the same time there is so much anti-government, anti-authority stuff going on, even about sensible health decisions (when they were eventually made) - and yet also this tendency to say, in general discussions, like the ones on the main HF board, "But Guru X said so."

So at the same time, people can ridicule epidemiologists who have peer-reviewed solid health research to inform their suggested strategies, and even deny that SARS-CoV-2 exists or that it's actually a pretty nasty thing to get in comparison with a cold, etc etc etc, but when they're in a discussion they appeal to the authority of their choice, who happens to share their often ill-informed opinion. And then it's, "Who are you to question Guru X?"

It seems to me that thinking and reasoning has taken a back seat, and that people either aren't aware of the logical inconsistencies of their own way of being in the world, or simply don't care.

@gottatrot, what you're describing in your last paragraph above has a name: Marketing!  And maybe that's part of the whole problem - that in a system driven by money, bending the truth to sell your product is standard procedure, and of course people are assailed by marketing 24/7, and not just from people making products they want to shift - and have very little exposure to critical and rational thinking in ever-more-watered-down school curricula etc, and often zero after graduation. So they can spout total buffoonery, imagining it's critical and rational thinking just because they're opposing someone else's point of view...

@bsms, yeah, dehumanisation. And also I think sociopathy, which tends to accumulate higher up in the ranks of society and organisations, just as DDT becomes more concentrated as you go up in the food chain. Thank you for responding to that question; I didn't want to put you on the spot but I know exactly two people who've been in wars, yourself and a local friend who was an aircraft engineer in Vietnam. He spends a lot of time reading the biographies of sociopaths. I couldn't do it, I'd find it too depressing, but he says he enjoys figuring out how their minds work. I'd say his father was one - our friend is the product of a young Eastern European woman being raped, and the local clergyman in charge then deciding the rapist could _make things right_ by marrying his victim in his church.  So you can imagine his upbringing. He joined the army at age 16 because it was the quickest way he could get away from his household, and as a pacifist who didn't ever want to kill anyone else - so he became an aircraft engineer. He's a super nice person and really interesting to talk to; but sadly I don't get to town much these days.

Horse stuff is on the back burner just now because of the weather and also because we need to get the attic done. Another front coming in. Yesterday was a lovely sunny day (for the first time in ages) but Brett wasn't home, and I made the window architrave for upstairs, and thought about how to make a platform for above the staircase, which is the main difficulty for the remaining plastering work and my major job for today (or we won't be able to plaster tomorrow). I did manage to spend a few hours in the garden, planting more peas and broad beans and doing a bit of weeding and mulching, while enjoying the sun and watching the two horses kicking up their heels and doing little races up the track behind the house, with the donkeys following as best as they could.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I question a lot of things. I have no problems asking to see the evidence from government gurus, particularly after Keto and Fasting have made a huge change in how my body feels even as the government and authoritative medical sites tell me it is harmful. I don't trust government officials because they've been VERY wrong, from "WMD in Iraq" to "eggs are deadly"!

For decades I was told low fat was the key to losing weight, but HIGHER fat is what healed me! Eating cheese (something humans have eaten for thousands of years) was dangerous, but somehow eating Coco Puffs was "heart healthy"! The US government tells me I should be eating 35 grams of fiber a day to stay "regular". Without providing too much information....uh, NO! Yet my near diabetic son refuses to try keto or fasting because "_The VA nutritionists tell me it is dangerous_". The last time he told me that, I took my T-shirt off and replied, "_Oh really?_"

If my body fundamentally feels the healthiest it has been in 30+ years doing what authorities say is dangerous and weird, then can I trust those authorities? AND if what I see in my horses doesn't match what big name trainers and lots of books on horses claim...then why should I trust the books? I've actually thrown a number away. I don't want ANYONE to read some of them ever again!

What scares me though is the demonization of those who disagree. I get very frustrated by the US government diet advice, but the VA nutritionists are not evil. They aren't mean. Like people who have told me to "Get a bigger whip", they MEAN well. I get angry and accuse them of lying - which I think does happen given how much money goes into selling sugar - but many are trying to do right. Like me trying the same ineffective diet again and again for 40 YEARS, they don't know what they don't know. Some of the early proponents of keto and fasting nearly lost their medical licenses. Glad they didn't and glad they kept pushing beyond accepted wisdom. But I'm wrong any time I demonize those who disagree. That becomes MY SIN, not theirs.

PS: Yes, I'm getting old and gravity takes its toll on all of us. Yet in many respects, I feel healthier INSIDE than I did in my twenties. I'm not sure how to describe it...a feeling that my body, while aging, is balanced in a way it never has been. I have injuries at times. The back injury I got with Mia in Jan 2009 will probably never fully heal. But I don't care how many degrees a doctor has. My body is telling me I'm doing right by it. That doesn't mean OTHERS need to do what I do. My sister is fine without it. But it is kind of like when I ride Bandit and feel him thinking about what WE are about to do. Anyone telling me now to get a bigger whip might be disturbed at where that whip might be shoved.... 🤠

PSS: I wouldn't mind meeting that local clergyman and shoving a whip....uh-oh, there I go again! But people are SOOOOO frustrating!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I really like this conversation! I wish I had more time to think about it and post a reply. There is so much I see wrong with how people are processing currently. We are off to walk to find a breakfast spot though.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I agree @Knave, I am just catching up but it is a breath of fresh air to talk about potentially difficult things with a thoughtful, respectful tone. I was a political science major in college, did an internship in Washington, DC as part of my major, and even though that was just over 20 years ago now, the way political discussion takes place is so different now. I think debate, argument, whatever you want to call it is healthy and even fun. We certainly sat up late at night in college over drinks debating politics. I had a friend group that leaned left but included people with more conservative perspectives, and our sparring would cover all the issues we're still arguing about today. But as others have already said eloquently above, we didn't enter those conversations hating the people with different ideas. We absolutely tried to persuade them they were wrong- with both emotion and research- but we didn't tear them down as less-than-human in the course of that conversation. 

I do think @bsms rightly points out that this isn't a one side or the other problem. The state that I live in is correctly perceived as very liberal, but I can't tell you how much performative liberalism I see all around me. What I mean is that it's easy to put a sign in your yard or a bumper sticker on a car, but when a policy actually comes up for consideration that might have an impact on you, it seems that suddenly the bumper sticker has a whole lot of caveats on it when _you _might actually have to adjust your life in some way. This comes up over and over again here with making housing affordable for people moving from outside the state, raising taxes to pay for better health or educational services, allowing recreation in ways that people think are "low brow," etc. All those bumper stickered people sure sing a different song when they are asked to sacrifice or change their own behaviors. It's really frustrating. 

I think what scares me right now is that I don't see a way this ends, at least in my lifetime. I wish that I could contextualize what's happening now with other moments in history. Are things really bad enough that another revolution or civil war in America are the only solutions? What about global intersections with these American problems- is there another world war looming or is this just a decline of an empire that seems fraught now but in the future won't look different from the fall of other empires? I just started a book called _High Conflict_, which takes on some of these issues and provides some perspective from other historical moment when tensions seemed impossibly high. I'm curious to see how I feel about all this after I finish the book.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I think that we have all forgotten how to disagree and yet still maintain respect and friendship. It does seem close to a civil war to me, unless a world war breaks out first. It seems to me that common sense


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Sorry, it posted without me telling it to. So, continued-

it seems to me that the common sense of living has been lost. Maybe we have been too well off for too long that people have forgotten how survival itself is important.

It’s hard to explain what I mean to say, but I guess if you are working hard every day for your food and your heat, and trying to keep your animals alive and that type of thing, living close with nature, that the time to split over silly opinions isn’t there.

I would say I am conservative, but I do not care at all what other people want to do or think. I have zero problem with people’s personal decisions, and I expect them to have no problem with mine. I expect everyone to treat one another with common courtesy, and to not give a dang at all about things that do not effect them personally.

Most around me would be the same way. “You do you.” Yet, reading conservative news the personal posts are disturbing. So, I would say both ends do the same to each other. This bothers me. Everyone finds it necessary to try and make everyone else believe the same things as they do. If someone does not agree, they are to be vilified. Our “cancel” culture is not a good one.

People need to go back to having more real things to worry about.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*PEACEFUL BAY COASTAL WALK*

It's nice to have civilised conversations, and you can be sure I will get back to these soon. Meanwhile though we had a wonderful sunny day by the seaside today, doing a 12km hike of gorgeous coastline. We were only away for the day but it really feels like we've been on a much-needed mini-holiday, and I thought I'd share the scenery and some of the remarkable things we saw today.

This is Jess at the start of the walk.

She's been super excited since yesterday night about our outing, since she understands words for walking, going somewhere in the car, and that there will be swimming opportunities (which she loves). In Jess-speak that's _walkies_, _broom-broom_ and _splish_ respectively - onomatopoeia is helpful and so is repetition around those activities, so that now, for instance, if you say "broom-broom" she will leap around and start herding you to the door and then wait expectantly near the hatch, and if you say "splish" she will look around for water and go swim if possible. As Jess is 10 and slowing down a bit, we realise time is getting short and we want her to have as many lovely long walks with us as possible. ♥

The general coastline:

You end up going from beach to beach around a point and it's just totally splendid scenery and geology. This has got to be one of my favourite coastal walks anywhere, and goodness knows we are spoilt for choice on the South Coast.


Brett and I felt as if we were the only people left in the world for much of today's hike, because we met nobody else for the whole three-and-a-half hours, and the landscape is so primal and pristine.

We filmed a wonderful example of the power of the sea on the South Coast today. These are the waves that wash unwary rock fishermen into the sea, and then even strong swimmers have low chances of getting back to shore safely, which is why we have regular deaths from this...






There was a huge treat when we came to our picnic stop near Point Irwin. Brett was pointing at the sea. We couldn't make out what it was at first. It almost looked like dolphins, which are commonly encountered along this coast, but the fin shapes were wrong and there were so many of them close together...

Since we've done and documented this exact walk once before, we didn't take a proper camera with us today, so the photo isn't very clear as these critters were quite a way from us and we couldn't get closer to them. There are a few more photos in the complete-photo slideshow which I will link to later.

After a while it dawned on us what they were. We'd never seen this in real life before - but we had seen it on a David Attenborough documentary years ago. They were seals sunning themselves in the water, most of them floating sideways and upside-down, and what we were seeing were not fins but flippers!

We were watching this while eating apples from our own garden and drinking iced coffees made from local fresh milk the cow owner delivers to us once a week - quite a memorable picnic. It was lunchtime, but we'd already brunched in Denmark on the way through, at the award-winning bakery there - a pepper pie and princess slice for Brett, a seafood pie and beesting for me - a big treat because so well made and because these are not things I make at home. We still had one item each from that bakery in our backpack - a fruit-custard tart with a spelt crust brushed in dark chocolate (to deliciously keep the custard from making the pastry soggy, pure genius and I do that with all my own fruit tarts these days too), and a cherry-coconut slice for Brett - but we saved them for later!

Soon we were climbing to the highest point of this walk, into typical granite country:

The views west opened up from there and were amazing. That's Rame Head in the middle distance, with Point Nuyts far in the distance.

And then we saw whales blowing a little way offshore! Today just had everything...






In the second video you can see seagulls flocking over to where the whales are.






We couldn't make out if they were Humpbacks or Southern Right Whales, as they were far away and not coming out of the water enough. Both migrate around our coast this time of year. But if I had to guess I would say they were Humpbacks, because of the incredible almost trumpeting noise they were making at one point clearing their blowholes. It was a _big_ sound and one I'd not heard before in years of whalewatching!

The ever-changing geology and scenery on this walk is just astonishing. It is so extraordinary...


We came to a little cove that was literally boiling with waves and I took a film. Brett volunteered to be in it so viewers could get a sense of the scale of these waves...






People say the Atlantic on the West Coast of Ireland is powerful, but the Southern Ocean has an enormous uninterrupted fetch right to the Antarctic and our South Coast is situated in the Roaring Forties. When you walk along this coast the ground shakes beneath your feet, like an earthquake. It's hard to describe the sheer power of the huge pounding waves here, but it is reflected too in the grandness of the coastal scenery, which has been hammered with this huge force for many thousands of years.

The remaining coastline photos are from the last beach along before the Bibbulmun Track veered back into the dunes, from where we then returned via a shortcut track to Peaceful Bay, rather than continuing to Rame Head Hut, which walk we have done previously and is in our hiking diary here if anyone wants to see that.

This is a truly magical beach. The second photo below is my favourite from today.


The dog really enjoyed this outing.


We played in the water and Brett caught it; in the slideshow we have a kind of water ballet sequence where the dog and I were just enjoying the sea and waves. Then we all had afternoon tea in this lovely spot at the end of the beach:


After that I had truly joyous splash in the water with Jess, playing tag with each other and egging each other on to chase waves. We didn't get any photos of that, but it will remain a golden memory of Jess and me for years to come - the fun and the scenery and the beautiful afternoon light...

We feel so privileged to live here and be able to walk in such magnificent places, many hours from major cities, literally at the edge of the world. ♥

A complete-photo slideshow of today can be accessed via this link - then use the right arrows to go forward!


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I love the Southern Ocean and walks in isolated beachy, fierce areas. When we lived in San Diego for a few years, I always felt the ocean was so boring there, and the beaches were so bland. It might get cold where we live in NZ, but I like being back by the Southern Ocean and all its wild ways. A good walk on a beach in the middle of winter with a whipping bitterly cold wind and lashing waves always drives the cobwebs out of your brain.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm back to the banalities-cum-arm-workout (I have a twin tub washing machine) of getting the washing on the line and back down again before the next front arrives this afternoon. So I'm going to tie a few loose social ends, before getting back to the more serious discussion. With the incipient weather forecast for the weekend, there won't be many horse entries over the next few days - it's going to get cold, wet and very windy here. If I am really lucky I will find a half-hour break in what is forecast to take the rug off Julian and sneak around the valley floor with him again...anything more ambitious will have to wait for better weather.



george the mule said:


> Sue, George is pretty much the same as always; maybe a bit more grey around the muzzle. We still get out in the neighborhood fairly regularly, but we haven't done any real "trail" rides since the pandemic changed our world for us.
> One huge change was moving away from our long-time home in Palmer Lake. (40+ years for me, 25 of 'em with my wife Judy.) As you will probably recall, Palmer Lake is situated right up against the mountains/National Forest, and riding opportunities abound.
> With the disruptive influence of "That Disease That Shall Not Be Mentioned For Fear Of Invoking Censorship", we had a huge influx of Urbanites in Palmer Lake, and they were buying up everything in sight, and, of course, bringing in the typical city-dweller need for rules to govern their existance. One of the very first "Ordinances" was one banning Dogs, and Horses from the trails in the Mountains west of town. "Can't have Poop on the trails where we want to run, hike, bike, and push our baby strollers then, can we?" Sigh.
> The dark cloud did have a slender Silver lining tho; local property values doubled almost overnight. We consolidated our assets, sold out (our long-time neighbors were sad; some of them have since left as well.), and bought a very nice home and property in a covenant-protected Equestrian community in Elizabeth, CO. Google if you are curious, but it's enough to know that Elizabeth is about 35 miles North East of Palmer Lake; out on the plains SE of Denver.
> ...


I'm glad to hear George is still doing well, and sorry to hear you had to leave your home of many many years, because it changed in negative ways. I hope you are comfortable in your new home and sorry it's in less scenic surroundings than before. It looks relatively flat from a helicopter perspective, but I did find this photo, which was the most scenic in the lot:








Urban areas pushing out rural is a long theme of Western civilisation; and it's not going to stop until people stop breeding above replacement rate. This is a fact, but whenever you bring it up in America (I've been in a few online discussions), there's someone who says, "Who are you to tell us what we can and can't do!" - and with the current neoliberal capitalist system working against population stabilisation as well, I confidently forecast doom, and it's already very much here - e.g. in the unprecendented native species extinction rate we have in Australia, which is a country driven by property speculation and importing more people than are being exported, in spite of the fact we've already vastly exceeded sustainable carrying capacity from the perspective of ecologists (rather than growth economists, who don't actually operate in the real world).



george the mule said:


> The new dog Lacy (not quite 2yo) is really a sweetheart. Frankly, I was against the idea of bringing such a large animal into our house, but she has been wonderful in every way.


She looks like a friendly giant, although you probably have to relocate fragile objects if she goes around wagging her tail!  Beautiful animal.



george the mule said:


> That foot-stool is a model of George that a friends daughter made for a Middle-school art project a bunch of years ago. Apparently it was not well received by the school "art critics", but it does have a certain charm, and it goes well with the rest of our "Horsey" decor :-D "We _like_ it, Glencora; Thanks!"


What's wrong with it? How would the "art critics" have improved it? It seems a fitting tribute to equines and also useful and fun. I didn't recognise George, but if it's a cartoon type representation, that's not unusual!

I was going to ask if you've ever been to a concert at Red Rocks (or indeed, anyone else reading). I have a concert film from there and it looks like a fantastic venue...




Woodhaven said:


> Hi Sue as for other types of exercise, not much, I do cut grass here on the farm and a lot of weeder whacking to keep the place looking cared for, we rent the farm out now so no farm work to do.
> I do a lot at my sister's like clipping pastures and trails, this with a tractor and mower and a lot of weed whacking on the trails that the tractor can't get to.
> Was out for a lovely ride this morning on these trails, the bugs are not out yet, colder weather here right now so I want to get out as much as possible before those nasty critters arrive.
> If I didn't have the horses I would be an extreme couch potato, just lay around reading and munching.
> Looking forward to hearing your adventures with Julien. I will follow closely as we will be working with Sis's youngster.


So you're basically an overall active person! Maintenance is a huge job, especially with gardens and trails. Reading and munching are also hobbies I can relate to and I think doing all this outdoors stuff is a good balancer for it.

Good to hear you've been out for a nice ride and I hope the bugs hold off. @egrogan got a super head/neck net covering for her Fizz which seems to have really helped, but you've probably already seen it on the Trails thread! 

How's the youngster?




Cordillera Cowboy said:


> Great to see you posting here again. I just started reading. Lots to catch up on!


Hello, very nice to hear from you! Hope things are well near the equator. I saw photos of your little horses and they look a good hardy type and up to their work. Catching up on reading, hahaha. This is a small journal and itself difficult enough to keep up with, but I also have a voluminous blog, plus spent two years writing song and lyric analysis for an alternative music forum, and am contributing to another forum with a mental/emotional health focus and a diverse range of fun topics. And that's just online.  Writing is like breathing to me.




MeditativeRider said:


> I love the Southern Ocean and walks in isolated beachy, fierce areas. When we lived in San Diego for a few years, I always felt the ocean was so boring there, and the beaches were so bland. It might get cold where we live in NZ, but I like being back by the Southern Ocean and all its wild ways. A good walk on a beach in the middle of winter with a whipping bitterly cold wind and lashing waves always drives the cobwebs out of your brain.


Yeah, you're in the same fierce seas as we are, and further down towards the ice cap! I totally agree, tame seas are not for me either. I came to the South Coast for the first time at age 22, fresh out of university, and didn't stop hyperventilating for a year. Then I had to go back to Perth and nearly cried at its incongruously famed beaches, which are long straight stretches along a flat flat coast and the waves are so insipid...not for me. I love the jagged landscapes down here and the wild seas.

I wonder what effect the surroundings have on culture. Take Tahitians, laid-back on their gentle tropical paradise with waves lapping comparatively mildly. And then the Maori, fierce and courageous, who came up with the _haka_!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Just an except from a book I was recommending to people, that Brett has been reading - _Cryptonomicon_, by Neal Stephenson. Besides being a nice bit of (tragi)comedy, it actually has relevance for our more serious debate from before the hiking photos.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

> Cordillera Cowboy said:
> Great to see you posting here again. I just started reading. Lots to catch up on!


# SueC "Hello, very nice to hear from you! Hope things are well near the equator. I saw photos of your little horses and they look a good hardy type and up to their work. Catching up on reading, hahaha. This is a small journal and itself difficult enough to keep up with, but I also have a voluminous blog, plus spent two years writing song and lyric analysis for an alternative music forum, and am contributing to another forum with a mental/emotional health focus and a diverse range of fun topics. And that's just online.  Writing is like breathing to me. "

Watching the seasons turn and staying relatively cool on our little hilltop. 

I wish I were as dedicated to my writing as you. I hit a slump this past holiday season, and am only just now breaking out of it. I did manage to keep my blogs more or les current with some photo essays. 

Lovely country You get to roam in!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Now I'd like to get back to some of these serious matters.



bsms said:


> I question a lot of things. I have no problems asking to see the evidence from government gurus, particularly after Keto and Fasting have made a huge change in how my body feels even as the government and authoritative medical sites tell me it is harmful. I don't trust government officials because they've been VERY wrong, from "WMD in Iraq" to "eggs are deadly"!


You know, a person from an American Pentecostal church in Australia wanted me evicted from a professional house share because a good friend and I went to the Sydney Peace Protests in 2003. It was obvious to us that the WMD thing was a cook-up, because the UN investigator had already concluded this at the time (and I heard his evidence and testimony). A lot of Australians were outraged by the confecting of excuses by the US, UK and Australian governments at the time to invade a country, and by a foreign policy that was obviously about business interests and not justice - and _who_ had installed this problem dictator in the first place? And _why_?

And why were they _forever_ doing this, and also overthrowing legitimately democratically elected governments in little countries all over the world, since before I was alive, just because those citizens chose to elect governments that the people in power in the US didn't like because they were _communists_ or _socialists_ (which two categories they seem to have trouble distinguishing between)? What has always appalled me the most about US foreign policy is the cynicism with which the government/military-industrial complex (which amounts to the same thing these days) have sought to get their hands on other countries' resources, while at the same time mouthing moralising platitudes about freedom and democracy. And this a country with 5% of the world's population, consuming 25% of the world's resources. Imagine this kind of behaviour from a person at a dinner table - one person of twenty who decides to eat a quarter of what's on the table, and to hell with everyone else. Not that Australia is much better, but at least our governments don't tend to cast themselves as some kind of chief global benevolent policeman while interfering with and exploiting other countries for their own gain.

I'm interested in social justice, ethical behaviour, and the cessation of ecocide. None of the major parties in our country cater for my values, which is why I've always voted Green and Independent. It's interesting that our prior right-wing government just got thrown out on its ear in Australia, and that for the first time in history, Greens and Independents collectively gathered a third of the vote. This means that even though we don't have proportional representation (and no country with a political duopoly, such as the US, UK or Australia, are ever going to get that option while either major party is in majority power - they _like_ not having to share power), we now have _de facto_ proportional representation, since the Greens and Independents won enough Senate seats so that the government can't pass legislation without their agreement. This means that there is going to have to be talking and teamwork and negotiation and maybe even compromise, rather than people just following the party line of whatever major party is in power, and sniping at each other from behind their barricades. This is a very positive development.

The last time we had a situation like this was back in 2010-13, when we had Labor in minority government, with the balance of power held by Independent candidates, some of which were really decent human beings such as you don't normally find in winner-takes-all politics. It was a nice time to be Australian, and the process managed to produce some really positive outcomes for the country (that the right-wingers we subsequently had in power for nine long years tried their darndest to undo; and every disparity in justice you can care to name grew bigger during those nine years). Today our new government held the first Cabinet meeting with the heads of our various Australian states, and we're back to negotiation and cooperation in the national interest, and smiles around the table, instead of narcissistic games. Since that Saturday in May, we can watch the news again without despairing and thinking about slitting our wrists. It is really great to hear people in charge talking sense again and actually demonstrating competence in something, and showing an interest in the country per se and the welfare of the people in it. The government we had previously was officially (by objective and publicised measures) the most incompetent and corrupt one we ever had in this country, and an international embarrassment for ordinary Australians, not to mention parasitic on ordinary people.

To get back to the religion thing - the erstwhile PM of this country, who was one of the vilest in a parade of vile politicians, was also a member of the same American Pentecostal church as the person who in 2003 said I was the Anti-Christ for marching in a peace demonstration that was subsequently vindicated by history. I find religious fundamentalism dangerous - whether it's from that brand, or from the Taliban. In the case of that particular church (not necessarily _every_ Pentecostal church or person), it's a type of fundamentalism married to the so-called prosperity gospel, which is about as far from the Sermon on the Mount as you could possibly get while still paying lip service to it. It appalled me when I was a Christian between age 14 and my late 30s, and it appals me still as an agnostic. And I do not want secular democracies like Australia to be infested with this imported religious fundamentalism, which attempts to monger war, while at the same time winding back social justice gains that have addressed historical and systemic injustice, including the evils of racism, misogyny, homophobia, and the oppression of the little people by people with money. When money, and the possession of money, starts to be equated with moral goodness, we are on the road to hell (and anyone can also find that observation in the gospels, should they care to look for it). Ditto when people from a particular religious flavour start to view themselves as morally superior to everyone else, and start trying to impose their own beliefs on the rest of society - as the Taliban do, and as Christian fundamentalists also do (as with other fundamentalists).

That's what I thought about when I saw your comment on WMD. As far as nutrition goes, yeah, we've discussed all that before on this group - the mainstream advice on that has been poor for decades - partly because of ties to industry, which sponsors research as the tobacco industry once did (money again), and partly also, in my opinion, because at least in Australia, the entry score required to become a nutritionist is very low, so it's a profession dominated by erstwhile C-grade high school science students, and the problem with C-grade science students is that they're not able to deal very well with abstractions or with complexity. The A-graders tend to end up studying medicine, law etc - not nutrition (or teaching!). And to me this is why mainstream nutrition research reads like C-grade science assignments.

So to me this is not a government problem as such (other than that governments are increasingly outsourcing research to industry, with predictable results for the quality of research), this is a problem with the field of nutrition and the candidates it tends to attract and the experts this spawns.



bsms said:


> For decades I was told low fat was the key to losing weight, but HIGHER fat is what healed me! Eating cheese (something humans have eaten for thousands of years) was dangerous, but somehow eating Coco Puffs was "heart healthy"! The US government tells me I should be eating 35 grams of fiber a day to stay "regular". Without providing too much information....uh, NO! Yet my near diabetic son refuses to try keto or fasting because "_The VA nutritionists tell me it is dangerous_". The last time he told me that, I took my T-shirt off and replied, "_Oh really?_"


Yeah, see the above comments. Specifically, the food pyramid as idealised in the 1980s had grain products at the bottom because of the links between the American grain industry and the nutrition research. Same problem as with the tobacco industry financing research. I think research should be government-funded to have a chance of being truly independent - I've never seen industry-funded research that's not suspect. You can't have vested interests colliding with scientific research - and also you have to start attracting higher-quality people into fields like nutrition (and this means governments doing their jobs by regulating, directly employing good people, and actually serving communities, not outsourcing to their corporate pals).



bsms said:


> If my body fundamentally feels the healthiest it has been in 30+ years doing what authorities say is dangerous and weird, then can I trust those authorities? AND if what I see in my horses doesn't match what big name trainers and lots of books on horses claim...then why should I trust the books? I've actually thrown a number away. I don't want ANYONE to read some of them ever again!


With these horse books, again, it's the quality of the people writing them, and the Dunning-Kruger Effect - coupled with the insatiable desire from the general public for gurus who will do their thinking for them, that they can then hide behind if anyone questions what they are doing.



bsms said:


> What scares me though is the demonization of those who disagree. I get very frustrated by the US government diet advice, but the VA nutritionists are not evil. They aren't mean. Like people who have told me to "Get a bigger whip", they MEAN well. I get angry and accuse them of lying - which I think does happen given how much money goes into selling sugar - but many are trying to do right. Like me trying the same ineffective diet again and again for 40 YEARS, they don't know what they don't know. Some of the early proponents of keto and fasting nearly lost their medical licenses. Glad they didn't and glad they kept pushing beyond accepted wisdom. But I'm wrong any time I demonize those who disagree. That becomes MY SIN, not theirs.


I think I'm a little less generous than you here. It could be argued, and has been, that Hitler's generals _meant well _when they did what they did, and that Putin and his cronies _mean_ well - but I don't think that's any excuse, and neither is the Nuremberg defence ("only following orders"). I believe that we're all adults responsible for our own behaviour and that there are certain boundaries that it is unethical to cross, and that it's our responsibility when we choose to cross those lines.

But I agree with not demonising or othering people, in general, over differences of opinion. With certain caveats - I do draw the line at people like Hitler and Putin and your recent ex-President, and any mini-Hitlers and mini-Putins around us - in short, at sociopaths, and the immense harm they do others when they get into positions of power. (And then there's flying monkeys, but that's another story!)



bsms said:


> PS: Yes, I'm getting old and gravity takes its toll on all of us. Yet in many respects, I feel healthier INSIDE than I did in my twenties. I'm not sure how to describe it...a feeling that my body, while aging, is balanced in a way it never has been. I have injuries at times. The back injury I got with Mia in Jan 2009 will probably never fully heal. But I don't care how many degrees a doctor has. My body is telling me I'm doing right by it. That doesn't mean OTHERS need to do what I do. My sister is fine without it. But it is kind of like when I ride Bandit and feel him thinking about what WE are about to do. Anyone telling me now to get a bigger whip might be disturbed at where that whip might be shoved.... 🤠


Again, I don't see that the problem with this is science, it's people, and especially what happens when science isn't kept independent of commercial interests, and when certain fields don't even get high-quality candidates in the first place. And as to doctors, do you know that joke, "What do you call a medical student who gets 50% in his final exam? ...Doctor." 



bsms said:


> PSS: I wouldn't mind meeting that local clergyman and shoving a whip....uh-oh, there I go again! But people are SOOOOO frustrating!


Well, poetic justice is a fine thing! 😇


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

egrogan said:


> I agree @Knave, I am just catching up but it is a breath of fresh air to talk about potentially difficult things with a thoughtful, respectful tone. I was a political science major in college, did an internship in Washington, DC as part of my major, and even though that was just over 20 years ago now, the way political discussion takes place is so different now. I think debate, argument, whatever you want to call it is healthy and even fun. We certainly sat up late at night in college over drinks debating politics. I had a friend group that leaned left but included people with more conservative perspectives, and our sparring would cover all the issues we're still arguing about today. But as others have already said eloquently above, we didn't enter those conversations hating the people with different ideas. We absolutely tried to persuade them they were wrong- with both emotion and research- but we didn't tear them down as less-than-human in the course of that conversation.


Yes, it's nice when people play the ball, not the person (but that is rare even on main forum here). Any sense of honour seems to have gone from public spaces. It's like a bunch of toddlers throwing toys out of the pram. I really do think a lot of it is immaturity - both intellectual and emotional immaturity - and a society which increasingly _fosters_ intellectual and emotional immaturity. In part because a race to the bottom is that. Also because it's so much easier to manipulate people and sell them your products and your narratives if they are gullible and easily aroused to base emotions.



egrogan said:


> I do think @bsms rightly points out that this isn't a one side or the other problem. The state that I live in is correctly perceived as very liberal, but I can't tell you how much performative liberalism I see all around me. What I mean is that it's easy to put a sign in your yard or a bumper sticker on a car, but when a policy actually comes up for consideration that might have an impact on you, it seems that suddenly the bumper sticker has a whole lot of caveats on it when _you _might actually have to adjust your life in some way. This comes up over and over again here with making housing affordable for people moving from outside the state, raising taxes to pay for better health or educational services, allowing recreation in ways that people think are "low brow," etc. All those bumper stickered people sure sing a different song when they are asked to sacrifice or change their own behaviors. It's really frustrating.


Actions speak louder than words, etc.

And it's always easier to say how other people should act, than to act like that ourselves.




egrogan said:


> I think what scares me right now is that I don't see a way this ends, at least in my lifetime. I wish that I could contextualize what's happening now with other moments in history. Are things really bad enough that another revolution or civil war in America are the only solutions? What about global intersections with these American problems- is there another world war looming or is this just a decline of an empire that seems fraught now but in the future won't look different from the fall of other empires? I just started a book called _High Conflict_, which takes on some of these issues and provides some perspective from other historical moment when tensions seemed impossibly high. I'm curious to see how I feel about all this after I finish the book.


Please give us your thoughts when you're done reading.

Honestly, neither Brett nor I could stomach living in America. There's lovely scenery and nice people, but it's systemically so broken, even more broken than Australia, and it comes across as such an insular culture from its actions in the world and from some of the attitudes that come out of there. The corporations really have their fingers in absolutely everything, law is something for rich people to get off their crimes with, and to control poor people with, the rich-poor gap and social injustice in general is horrendous, and money and religious fundamentalism both have far too much influence on politics and public life. The worst thing from an outside perspective is this sense of meanness of many ordinary citizens about homelessness and poverty - some of those attitudes really make our jaws hit the ground outside of America. There's a show in Australia called _Planet America_ about American politics, and its title is a reference to America giving the impression that it's its own planet, to other countries - we're not even on the same one...

When people started abusing others in the street in America for wearing masks in the pandemic (it's bad enough to not follow sensible health measures, but to bully others over choosing to protect themselves and others is just beyond me), some of the total pond scum in our own society tried this on here, and met with widespread public disdain. Famously we had a woman subsequently dubbed "Bunnings Karen" who told the door staff of a hardware store she would personally sue them if they didn't let her in without a mask (during a time of mask mandates), and started filming these staff on her phone and saying she had rights they were interfering with yadda yadda copied from the American right's playbook. Well, the people around her took exception to her behaviour. Some of them told her to emigrate to America, others to take a running jump, and the door staff were supported. She became the butt of Australia's jokes, instead of the famous crusader she might have hoped to become. While we have idiots like everywhere else, I was pleasantly surprised during the pandemic by how well the Australian community pulled together and how there was this collective sense of doing the right thing for the greater good. Turns out most Australians care about other people's grandparents, and think rights come with responsibilities. Granted, we also had the terrible examples from other parts of the world to be lessons to us, and people didn't want our country to be like the US in its pandemic response, so we've had a comparatively civilised response and also have second vaccination rates in excess of 95%, high booster uptake, and good compliance with mask mandates whenever we've had them.

I honestly couldn't live in a country where I'd be harassed in the street for wearing my N-95 in public spaces. I'm sure there's parts of the US where you can, but the very idea that someone could harass someone else for making a choice for the sake of their health and that of others is just so outrageous, and really shows up how these people think. You can understand why people get angry because of other people NOT doing the right thing and putting others at risk with their behaviour, but when people get angry at someone else's choice to mask up, I find that totally appalling.

And health - well, we have Medicare, and are happy with our system. Everyone pays a bit of tax for it, and it's a far better deal than any private insurance and its flock of shareholders. @Knave would not have needed to wait forever to have a tumour on her daughter's foot seen to, not have had to fill in insurance forms, not have had discussions and phone calls about it, she could just have taken her daughter to hospital and she'd have been attended to and there would have been no charge, just like when I broke my foot. We've already paid for it through the tax system, and also we've paid for the most disadvantaged who don't pay tax to use it as well, and I'm glad to spend my tax money on helping those less fortunate, and to get better value for money than I ever would from privatised health. And it's insane to us, and also to a lot of expat Australians living in the US, that attempts to do the same there are so widely reviled even by the public.



Knave said:


> I think that we have all forgotten how to disagree and yet still maintain respect and friendship. It does seem close to a civil war to me, unless a world war breaks out first. It seems to me that common sense of living has been lost. Maybe we have been too well off for too long that people have forgotten how survival itself is important.
> 
> It’s hard to explain what I mean to say, but I guess if you are working hard every day for your food and your heat, and trying to keep your animals alive and that type of thing, living close with nature, that the time to split over silly opinions isn’t there.
> 
> ...


Someone who grew up during WW2 said once, "When people have enough money, they start doing stupid things." That made me laugh!

I like your philosophy that you've written about. If only others, etc. Sadly in the US, they're now coming for the reproductive rights of women. That's one example of where people should butt out of the private lives of others - ditto with anything to do with consensual sex. I'm not a human exceptionalist - so I don't see that a human embryo is anything special. We're eating the embryos of other species every time we have bread, or peanuts or almonds or hazelnuts, or eggs from chickens that have run with a rooster. We kill fully sentient beings for food and pest control (and some even for "sport"), but we get all precious about the _embryonic_ stage of our own already overpopulated species at a stage it has less sentience than the average house fly, which we would kill with impunity. I care about those that are already born - not embryos under 12 weeks' gestation. If it's yours, care about it if you like - but if it's someone else's, well, that's their business. It's not a person - it's a _potential_ person, just as every sperm and egg, and Monty Python famously wrote a song about that, to mock career-Catholic ideas about contraception.

And whole other _species_ are going extinct daily, as a result of human activities, and few people care.

Cancel culture, I take a middle road. I cheer when slave trader statues etc come down, and hope Cromwell's comes down eventually (genocide in Ireland, nasty man in other ways too). But I actually wrote to JK Rowling in support of her (and had a nice response from her office), because I didn't agree with the way she was treated - and because she's not actually transphobic, she's just not a militant activist. I agree with Margaret Atwood about needing to preserve free and open (but respectful) debate.

And I view my own opinions as working hypotheses, open to modification depending on new evidence etc.  I've modified my opinions quite a bit over the last 20 years in particular.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I have never seen any person looked down upon for wearing a mask, although I have seen memes teasing for wearing one in a car alone. Yet, if you wear one consistently I can completely see forgetting to take it off. Living in America it feels the opposite way. If someone was not wearing a mask they were attacked. They did not care if that person had a medical reason to not wear a mask, because often they were not given an opportunity to explain.

Where I live none of that occurred. The school required masks, no other business did, except for the bank, and the sheriff stood behind businesses making their own decisions. Some people wore masks, some didn’t, everyone did seem to social distance for it seemed that we all tried to respect one another and no one could mind read about what another felt.

It was not splitting in my town. Everyone tried to be respectful. We all got Covid at one point or another, but no one died luckily. In the outskirts of the county a friend died, but I would think, although that is the county it feels more a part of the town next to it.

Nothing seems to have made people lose general respect for their peers in my particular area. So, in the matter that people believe one another can make their own choices, they did try to respond to those choices and respect them. I rarely ever heard someone complain that “so and so is afraid of Covid,” or that “so and so doesn’t believe it is real.” (Obviously neither statement defines how either of those people believed, but it was the derogatory way of saying something.)

It wasn’t a bad culture here, although kicking the kids out of school for the year did dramatically effect them in a negative way.

Other big issues, like abortion, aren’t discussed so much. People definitely have their feelings about it, but no one finds the need to try and change another person’s beliefs in that regard. It is much the same as it always was. One person believes it is a decision they can make and another believes it isn’t. Yet, someone like me, who does not believe in abortion, is not going to judge their buddy for having gotten one. It is a “make your own choice” culture.

Now, the town did have some upheaval about the water issue that is a town specific issue. Neighbor was against neighbor. Now that the Supreme Court has seen the case, and ruled against my family’s side in a one off vote, I wonder if people will come back together that way. It has been better in any case as time has passed, and with a decision there is no longer a reason to fight. One must just figure it out for their own place.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@Knave, it seems like you live in a fairly reasonable community, and I'm glad you've not had particularly unpleasant experiences during the pandemic. I very much agree with your last sentence - that communities need to be able to make decisions for themselves, and that's one problem that crops up with centralised government. Of course, when you're in a reasonable community where people respect and care for each other on the whole, that's much more productive than it would be with very dysfunctional communities, such as cults, trying to claim that idea for themselves and not giving choices to their children etc.

It looks like I might be able to get a small ride in despite the weather, if I wear thermals and dash in between the cloud bands with their rain! 

I hope everyone is going to have a good weekend!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

It was interesting to read your criticisms of the US. I have criticisms too, but I think it is very complex and what is portayed on television and by politics are a very small snapshot of a huge and extremely diverse country.

The US is the 3rd largest country in the world and all the other countries in the top ten have massive issues with poverty, class issues, distribution of wealth, disease and poor health care. When you look at things from that perspective, we're not doing so bad.

A whole lot of people are not involved in politics at all. Somewhere around half the population usually votes, sometimes less. TV makes it sound like politics are a super important part of most peoples' lives. But in reality it doesn't often come up in conversation.

Especially you must consider how many diverse cultures we have when it is time to agree or make decisions. Religious freedom was a big part of the founding of the country, and we have innumerable cults and sects. Each of those has its own sub culture. While many try to lump these together as fundamentalism, the beliefs and how they affect politics vary widely.

For example, a Bahai follower we know is against abortion but threesome relationships are fine. A lot of people around here who consider themselves very liberal are also very pro gun and think it is important to learn to hunt for your own food. Amish and Mennonites have conservative type beliefs but are anti gun.

Some conservative people I know are very much into environmentalism. To the point where their reasoning for not wanting covid control measures was because it was a natural solution to overpopulation. Some very liberal people I know are anti-vaccine because we should all be GMO free and not put chemicals into our bodies.

I feel like on TV it sounds like you can say large groups of people in the US have identical belief systems. In reality I see a few small groups of people sharing some beliefs, but larger groups become more and more diverse.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

That is such an excellent point @gottatrot. I don’t know anyone who’s beliefs would actually mimic my own. They are jumbled. I don’t like government control, and that is why I am conservative. I think people need to be responsible for themselves, where state vs federal government lines me up with state. I wish it could be county! Lol

Really though, my moral beliefs on what is right and wrong are likely a very odd combination. I struggle with that internally at times, because my beliefs don’t look like everyone else’s, and they never have. I guess maybe if we tried hard enough we could find people who’s minds work in the same way as our own, but that would be boring.

I am surprised you said the Mennonites are anti gun. I wonder if that is just specific to the local church there, as the Mennonites here are most really big hunters. One of my closest friends is a hunting guide.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

If we delve too deeply into politics or religion, I'm likely to lose friends on HF - being more conservative and more religious than most. With regard to WMD, I'm familiar with what the intelligence agencies were telling us in the years leading up to the first Gulf War and feel confident the government truly DID believe Saddam was nearing nuclear weapons. As for what that means, consider why we don't do more about Putin's invasion: He can nuke London. And Paris. Governments can and often are deceptive, but they also sometimes simply screw up. And sometimes get things right. It makes the concept of "just war" difficult. Most would agree Hitler needed to be stopped, but most of our lives are lived in less clear-cut circumstances. Heck, it is only IN HINDSIGHT that the Hitler issue is clear cut. I recommend reading "The Last Lion: ALONE":

"[in] _the middle volume of William Manchester’s critically acclaimed trilogy, Winston Churchill wages his defining campaign: not against Hitler’s war machine but against his own reluctant countrymen. Manchester contends that even more than his leadership in combat, Churchill’s finest hour was the uphill battle against appeasement. As Parliament received with jeers and scorn his warnings against the growing Nazi threat, Churchill stood alone—only to be vindicated by history as a beacon of hope amid the gathering storm._"

Not sure we've done much overthrowing of democratic governments, just as I'm not sure many small countries have HAD democratic governments - or would be capable of functioning with one anyways. Not every country SHOULD be a democracy since the latter requires a type of society and culture that isn't found in every country. I'm certain the South Koreans are glad we did something in Korea and my Dad certainly decided Vietnam was a just cause - after he got there and could see first hand what was going on. Richard Nixon wrote a book called "No More Vietnams". I'm sure many would disagree with him but Nixon wasn't stupid. Nor as corrupt as his fellow corrupt politicians portrayed him.

I spent the first year of COVID in a county that ignored most of the rules on COVID and did fine. Discussion of COVID on HF is largely banned because it is so difficult to have intelligent, reasoned discussion on the topic in a public forum. I support its ban so suffice it to say my grandkids were living with me, going to school daily, without masks, pre-vaccine...and the county did fine.

It goes back to what is becoming a common experience for me: _What the government says, what the media tells me and what I read in books doesn't match what I see happen around me_.


SueC said:


> It could be argued, and has been, that Hitler's generals _meant well _when they did what they did, and that Putin and his cronies _mean_ well - but I don't think that's any excuse


Of course there ARE evil people. My point is that a culture raised to believe X is moral and just will do X even if another culture (or time) views X as evil. My great grandfather fought for the North because he lived in Indiana. Had he been born in Alabama, he'd have probably fought for the South. In Afghanistan, it is NORMAL for men to believe they have the right to kill any woman in their family. I obviously find that beyond appalling, but if I had been born and raised in rural Afghanistan? I'd probably accept it _without question_. I VERY strongly suspect some of the practices we accept and even promote in America (and Australia) will be viewed with horror 100 years from now. We just don't know which ones. We may not even know what questions we should be asking!

Which is why I'll refrain from any future political-leaning discussions. I don't want to lose friends over political/religious/moral disagreements, particularly since I'm convinced that I'm wrong on some of those issues myself. I just don't know which ones....


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

gottatrot said:


> It was interesting to read your criticisms of the US. I have criticisms too, but I think it is very complex and what is portayed on television and by politics are a very small snapshot of a huge and extremely diverse country.
> 
> The US is the 3rd largest country in the world and all the other countries in the top ten have massive issues with poverty, class issues, distribution of wealth, disease and poor health care. When you look at things from that perspective, we're not doing so bad.
> 
> ...


This is very similar to something you said last time this topic came up. I don't know why you reference the TV so much because I hardly ever watch TV and get my information on wealth disparity and other numerical parameters like that mostly from analyses written by people like the UN and the World Happiness Institute. I read investigative journalism on issues like globalisation, health care, economics etc, and interviews with people from around the world. One of my best friends is a person who works in trauma care and grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in the US, and her take, from what she has experienced and from the people she has known and worked with, is considerably less rosy than the standard take from people who are comparatively privileged in the US. She would say that she grew up in a different country to you, even though officially it's the same country. Expat Aussies who have lived in the US tend to make similar observations on the difference between living in the US vs here; another friend from Europe spent time in the US as a student. A recent pen pal is ethnic and from the US, grew up in poverty, and says very much what my most frequent US correspondent says. And then there is what international guests tell us at our farmstay, like recent visitors from Oregon. There's what people from the Tiny House movement say, etc. Those are not accounts from TV, they are from actual citizens, or from people who have spent time living there.

Then there are international forums and what I have observed people from different countries saying about various issues. There's professional literature on the environmental crisis and its political causes, etc etc.

I'm sure you're right that many people live their everyday lives without politics being particularly important to them. I've tended as a young person to think all that stuff was boring and to live trying to block it out as much as possible. Growing up in a dysfunctional family, the last thing I wanted as a young adult was to be confronted with more dysfunction, which is what much of politics is. But as I have gotten older, I have understood that the microcosms and the macrocosms are connected and that I ignore that at my own peril. So I now am quite an engaged citizen, part of a grass roots political movement that aims to reclaim Australia's democracy for its actual citizens - for the ordinary people, rather than the corporations and lobby groups and the Murdoch media empire that have way too much power over the narrative and the decisions made in this country. And as an Australian I'd like to apologise for our worst export to the US - Rupert Murdoch, who also has way too much influence in your country.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

And now for some light entertainment...






Hope everyone is having a good weekend! Still fingers crossed that riding will happen tomorrow. Today we walked an hour in our rain jackets. I know some people ride in the rain too but I find that too icky with all the wet leather etc and will wait till there is a proper rain break.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Heck, I don't ride when there are dark clouds, let alone rain.... 🤠


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

bsms said:


> If we delve too deeply into politics or religion, I'm likely to lose friends on HF - being more conservative and more religious than most.


Yeah, I'm aware that our religious and political views (and some of our general world views) are very different: I'm broadly a social progressive, you're broadly a conservative. You belong to a church, I was an unaffiliated Christian mystic most of my life before becoming agnostic (all of which I've explored at length in some online writing if anyone wants to know the background to all of that), and was always really uncomfortable with fundamentalism, both intellectually and spiritually. Fundamentalism, by the way, is not the monopoly of religion either - it also exists in politics, secular organisations, etc.

There have been times when for reasons to do with my having complex PTSD, and the dire political situations of our respective countries, and because of the code-red environmental crisis, I completely avoided any place where I was encountering even a whiff of denialism over things that have been long established beyond reasonable doubt, since it was very reminiscent of the gaslighting I had encountered as a child growing up. I was simply done and had had enough, and found myself better things to do with my time.

Interestingly, on another discussion forum I'm on (where anything can be discussed without censorship so long as it's done respectfully, and this leads to fabulous discussions) we asked the question: What viewpoints will you avoid engaging in debates about? The list of items offered by various participants, and almost universally agreed upon, included:

That the earth is flat
That the earth is thousands of years old, not billions
Jehovah's Witness theology and any other kind of dogmatic religious views
Anthropogenic climate change denial
SARS-CoV-2 isn't real/is just a flu/cold
Anti-mask/anti-epidemiology
Vaccination causes autism
LGBTIQ is an aberration/a sin
SARS-CoV-2 vaccines alter your DNA code/contain tracking chips etc
The last US election was "stolen"
Various conspiracy theories

Explaining why, most people said it just wasn't worth the time and energy to engage in debate about rigidly held views that were mostly impermeable to actual evidence. It benefitted neither side, and therefore was pointless. Life is finite. Better to spend your discussion time in interesting debates you could learn from. With people subscribing to things from the above list, to have conversations instead on common-ground topics around which you could have constructive relationships with them. Which I think is a good policy.

I took a break from this journal discussion group for many reasons, not just the above, but I do want to say openly that that was part of it. I started this new journal for the reasons stated on the first page, and anything else that's happened is an organic development of people with a group history talking to each other.

I may differ significantly in world views from some in this group - I'd say I'm more similar politically and spiritually to @egrogan, @MeditativeRider and possibly @knightrider, and most different from @bsms and @gottatrot, who have occasionally unwittingly triggered my PTSD-gaslighting-alert (a physiological response to triggers, not a magic universal truth barometer). @Knave sits in the middle and has the diplomacy, personality, love, intelligence, openness and incredibly good nature to apparently be able to talk to any of us about anything, without adverse effects (at least that's my experience, and only she can tell us what if any costs there are for her with this).

But there's not been a time when, if any of you had shown up on my doorstep, I'd not have been happy to see you, invite you in, share food and conversation, offer you a guest room, take you hiking etc - regardless of what was happening in our discussions. 



bsms said:


> Not sure we've done much overthrowing of democratic governments, just as I'm not sure many small countries have HAD democratic governments - or would be capable of functioning with one anyways. Not every country SHOULD be a democracy since the latter requires a type of society and culture that isn't found in every country. I'm certain the South Koreans are glad we did something in Korea and my Dad certainly decided Vietnam was a just cause - after he got there and could see first hand what was going on. Richard Nixon wrote a book called "No More Vietnams". I'm sure many would disagree with him but Nixon wasn't stupid. Nor as corrupt as his fellow corrupt politicians portrayed him.


And this is where I significantly disagree with you - especially with your first two sentences. I recently listened to a very sad podcast on the history of Haiti, and would recommend that to anyone with an interest in international justice.









Haiti — the background to an assassination - ABC Radio National


The Caribbean nation of Haiti, whose president was recently assassinated, is the world’s poorest and most unstable country. Yet this was not always the case. For over a century it was France’s richest colony and later became the first black-led republic. Why has Haiti become such a mess?




www.abc.net.au





Other links to the general topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change

35 countries where the U.S. has supported fascists, drug lords and terrorists

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...arn-from-cold-war-attempts-to-change-regimes/

This covers all sorts of situations, many of which are shades of grey, but some of which really are not. I don't live in a superpower, and never have, though I've lived and worked in four countries - and sometimes it might be good for people who do live in a superpower to consider the views of people who do not, and to hear external views of their superpower, even though for many people that's going to be as difficult as when people criticise their families. Still, no family is perfect and no country is, and you're certainly all welcome to criticise Australia to me - or Germany, or Italy, or the UK, which are the other countries I've lived and worked in. I'll probably agree with much of your criticism, actually.



bsms said:


> I spent the first year of COVID in a county that ignored most of the rules on COVID and did fine. Discussion of COVID on HF is largely banned because it is so difficult to have intelligent, reasoned discussion on the topic in a public forum. I support its ban so suffice it to say my grandkids were living with me, going to school daily, without masks, pre-vaccine...and the county did fine.


We also have very different views on the pandemic and on epidemiology. It's easy to compare your region to regions which have done worse. I happened to live - as did @MeditativeRider - in a region where epidemiological recommendations were followed _painstakingly_ before vaccines became available and most of our populations were vaccinated (we're running at >95% double vaccination of 12+ here). Western Australia and New Zealand had very similar approaches there, and very much backed by their respective citizens. We also had some of the lowest rates of illness and death in the world during this pandemic, and Western Australia never had an economic recession, _because_ we dealt appropriately with the pandemic. Borders opened again in March this year, and though people are now dying from this (about 5 a week in our state, under 300 hospitalised at any time), we've had a comparatively soft landing.

However, we also don't believe this pandemic is over, and we're still cooperating with any number restrictions, health measures, mask recommendations etc. On a personal note, Brett and I always voluntarily wear N-95s in crowded public spaces, and any indoors public spaces except when actually eating. We sanitise our hands going into places for the sake of others, and coming out again for our own sakes. We wear masks in people's homes if requested to, as people do in ours. This is doing our bit to protect ourselves and other people, and take pressure off health and hospital staff, who'd rather not have anyone come in with SARS complications and take up beds, ICU, resources, etc if it can be prevented - ditto flu and other respiratory viruses that we can so easily drastically reduce the circulation of with behavioural modifications, why wouldn't we. And we're really happy that most fellow West Australians are being so team-orientated about all of this.



bsms said:


> Of course there ARE evil people. My point is that a culture raised to believe X is moral and just will do X even if another culture (or time) views X as evil. My great grandfather fought for the North because he lived in Indiana. Had he been born in Alabama, he'd have probably fought for the South. In Afghanistan, it is NORMAL for men to believe they have the right to kill any woman in their family. I obviously find that beyond appalling, but if I had been born and raised in rural Afghanistan? I'd probably accept it _without question_. I VERY strongly suspect some of the practices we accept and even promote in America (and Australia) will be viewed with horror 100 years from now. We just don't know which ones. We may not even know what questions we should be asking!
> 
> Which is why I'll refrain from any future political-leaning discussions. I don't want to lose friends over political/religious/moral disagreements, particularly since I'm convinced that I'm wrong on some of those issues myself. I just don't know which ones....


This is the part of your post I agreed with the most. And I guess it's been very helpful to Brett and myself to have been born with traits that make us suspicious of groupthink, quite resistant to peer pressure, given to the questioning of everything and to empiricism and experimentation, as well as to reading widely and critically - plus in an environment where uncensored information was quite freely available and people don't _generally_ go to jail, get "disappeared" or get lynched, for thinking differently to the powers-that-be (although there _always_ is a social cost to it).

We're probably a bit ahead of you in viewing things with horror.  But, like I said, we view our opinions as working hypotheses, and not as "ultimate truth" etc. And while we neither of us want to engage in fruitless debates, we're always willing to answer honestly about what we think or feel about a particular thing, if anyone wants to know, and we always learn a whole lot from engaging with other people (where we choose to engage).


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Who the US supports often means choosing between gross evils. When I was in Afghanistan, the local province chief was supported by the US (to the extent our support meant anything at all in that place). He had sex with young boys (as did many Afghans). He had no issue at all killing people and would cheerfully kill them himself. On one occasion, he stacked 40 heads in a pile in public. But...he seemed to care about his province and he did keep his word. The real bottom line? There were NO decent possibilities.

As for the salon link...I have some personal knowledge of a some of those countries, including Afghanistan, Taiwan, Cambodia, Turkey and Korea. My Dad flew over Cambodia as did a number of men I knew when starting my career. The other countries I've been in for significant amounts of time. Salon presented an EXTREMELY biased summary, reflecting what I said in paragraph one: Often, there are no good choices. *Not only are there often no good choices, no one often knows in advance who or what will be the least bad choice*.

The choices made by America were better than Salon presented as well. South Korea versus North Korea, for example. Is there any doubt the South is VASTLY better off than the North, at tremendous expense to the USA? That isn't a close call. Taiwan? My Mom and Dad knew Chiang Kai-Shek and his wife. Didn't like either in the least - but Taiwan is a vastly freer country than China. My parents loved Taiwan and its people and were justly proud of what we did there in the 1960s (when we lived there). And Iran? In the 70s, I had an Iranian roommate. He said the Shah and the Ayatollah were two sides of the same evil coin and he was doing his best to emigrate to the USA - a country he enthusiastically endorsed. We had freedom, and he was certain no matter what the outcome - it was in doubt at the time - that there would be no freedom in Iran.

Articles like that are amateur hour (or worse) in international politics. It is never 1% as easy to do what is right as that article presumes. I can't speak to every country in it, but I've lived in enough and had enough friends or family present in others to know it is extremely hard to know who and what is right. General William Tecumseh Sherman (Civil War era) hated the press. Somewhere in his writings he explained that the press always knew AFTER the battle exactly what he should have known and done BEFORE the battle! Any military officer should know the feeling. You are lucky, in the military or foreign affairs, if you know in advance 30% of what you need to know to make a good decision. If everything works out, someone else will claim the credit. If it fails, it is yours - and the press will pretend you had total control of the outcome!

"_It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat._" - Teddy Roosevelt

Since WW2 at least, it has often been America (and the American military) who have been in the arena. Of COURSE we get some of it wrong. But we also have gotten a lot right while the critics in the press often didn't know what they were talking about AFTER the fact, let alone before!

PS: By now, everyone I know has had COVID. Most of us expect to get it again. But we aren't an island nation and to put it VERY mildly, our southern border is not remotely secure....


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Yes, I probably enjoy debate a little too much, but definitely do not intend to offend anyone. If we were to meet I'm sure we would get along splendidly, especially because in actual conversation I always wait for something to come up that I can agree with, and I get along with everyone. It's only in a forum setting I try to debate, or with people I know really well. 

Your list of topics to avoid was pretty spot on. Politics and religion tend to make people upset, so yes, best not to go too deep. Some of those on your list would never be brought up in my state, because it would be seen as too offensive. Things such as accepting sexual orientation are more than mainstream...to bring up something like that could get out and you would lose your job at the very least. 

That being said, conspiracy theories are rather popular here and I've heard them from every political leaning. Bush faked 9-11, mass shootings were faked with actors as victims to help pass gun control laws, etc. The moon landing was faked. It's rather fun to listen to people who believe there is evidence for these things. I have a friend who does not believe in evolution, but in intelligent design by aliens. Her higher power is alien beings who engineered the earth and continue to be involved in its processes. She explained it all to me one night and it wasn't illogical. 

Regarding @bsms' post, I read War and Peace not long ago, and it was interesting how many things just happened in battles (according to the author's perspective) and it was basically all out of control once it started. Versus the idea that commanders were in charge of each aspect, as they said they were later on.

@SueC, have you ever watched any of Atom Egoyan's movies? They probably would be quite offensive to some, but I find them very interesting. I think you wouldn't be bothered by the subjects. Something he is very good at is showing how many things are not black and white, but human perspectives from different angles make everything look different. People who seem bad are not always that way when seen in a different light. Some very interesting ones are Felicia's Journey, Exotica, Family Viewing, and the Sweet Hereafter.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

gottatrot said:


> Versus the idea that commanders were in charge of each aspect, as they said they were later on.


Not sure which Civil War general said it, but one of them said all he could do was train his men and (hopefully) bring them into battle is a position that might lead to victory. Everything else that happened depended on the men. Gen Sherman DID say this: "_We have good corporals and good sergeants and some good lieutenants and captains, and those are far more important than good generals._" BTW, Gen Sherman was VERY controversial, both at the time and in retrospect. He also said, "_Grant stood by me when I was crazy, and I stood by him when he was drunk, and now we stand by each other._"


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

bsms said:


> Who the US supports often means choosing between gross evils. When I was in Afghanistan, the local province chief was supported by the US (to the extent our support meant anything at all in that place). He had sex with young boys (as did many Afghans). He had no issue at all killing people and would cheerfully kill them himself. On one occasion, he stacked 40 heads in a pile in public. But...he seemed to care about his province and he did keep his word. The real bottom line? There were NO decent possibilities.
> 
> As for the salon link...I have some personal knowledge of a some of those countries, including Afghanistan, Taiwan, Cambodia, Turkey and Korea. My Dad flew over Cambodia as did a number of men I knew when starting my career. The other countries I've been in for significant amounts of time. Salon presented an EXTREMELY biased summary, reflecting what I said in paragraph one: Often, there are no good choices. *Not only are there often no good choices, no one often knows in advance who or what will be the least bad choice*.
> 
> ...


We're going to have to agree to disagree, @bsms. You're entitled to your opinion, as others are to theirs.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

gottatrot said:


> Your list of topics to avoid was pretty spot on. Politics and religion tend to make people upset, so yes, best not to go too deep. Some of those on your list would never be brought up in my state, because it would be seen as too offensive. Things such as accepting sexual orientation are more than mainstream...to bring up something like that could get out and you would lose your job at the very least.


That's a shame, and I'm glad things are not like that in my state anymore - which is one of the reasons I said I wouldn't wish to live in the US. In Australia, discriminating against LGBTIQ is likely to get people sacked these days - not _being_ LGBTIQ. It's only the fundamentalist religious organisations trying to holding out on that one, but overwhelmingly, Australian citizens reject the notion of discriminating against people on the basis of sexual orientation, gender fluidity etc, and treating them in any way as lesser-than, defective, evil, or something to be covered up. You can't get away with it anymore in secular employment, and the loopholes for religious organisations are slowly but surely closing too (much to their chagrin, and to the applause of vast swathes of secular society and of moderate and progressive religious organisations).

And yes, people increasingly make LGBTIQ visible - our little regional town has regular pride events where LGBTIQ and their supporters organise "out" and general community activities, and they are always covered by the local papers in full rainbow colours. We've come a long way in the last two decades, and I enjoy living in a society where there is increasing tolerance and inclusion, and decreasing discrimination and hatred of differences in culture, sexual orientation, etc. When I arrived in Australia nearly 40 years ago, things were not this rosy, and even 25 years ago there were still debates in our local town about whether there should be condom vending machines in public rest rooms, with all sorts of letters to the editor being written that I vividly remember, denouncing a commonsense health measure in fire and brimstone terms. The time for that is thankfully over - as a European I could never understand those medieval attitudes and I'm glad Australia is starting to outgrow them.

And it's not specifically the _topics_ of religion and politics I avoid - I discuss those ad lib wherever they happen to come up in an interesting and productive way - but it's that I avoid arguing with people who have _rationally discredited dogmatic positions_ on certain subjects, about those positions. Like @egrogan, I've also (belatedly) come to enjoy discussions about politics - when it's not a pile-on, but a fruitful and creative thing.



gottatrot said:


> That being said, conspiracy theories are rather popular here and I've heard them from every political leaning. Bush faked 9-11, mass shootings were faked with actors as victims to help pass gun control laws, etc. The moon landing was faked. It's rather fun to listen to people who believe there is evidence for these things. I have a friend who does not believe in evolution, but in intelligent design by aliens. Her higher power is alien beings who engineered the earth and continue to be involved in its processes. She explained it all to me one night and it wasn't illogical.


Yes, as Germans say, paper is patient! We can visit Berkeley's ideas if you like, which is not a conspiracy theory - it's a sort of CS-Lewis-meets-_The-Matrix_ from the 1700s, in which no material matter exists at all and God is the ultimate movie projector on specks of consciousness. I think that's a more elegant idea than your alien-design friend's, but I guess that's a subjective thing about what kind of narratives you prefer! 

The mass shooting conspiracy theories made it over to the Australian trigger-happy-clubs as well, and we got sick of listening to them, which at one point meant no longer socialising with some of our more right-wing neighbours, who just _would-not-stop_ and seemed to have little else to talk about. It became seriously boring and a waste of precious time. Thankfully their children are a bit less that way inclined - they say change happens one funeral at a time.

Ah yeah, and the moon landing, etc. I think all those conspiracy theories are snapped up happily by a small subsection of our community who prefer to live in their own make-believe - maybe it's more exciting for them, maybe it's something to do with mental illness.

It's been rather interesting to observe during this pandemic that the extreme left (of basically nutters - I'm a leftie but not so left as to be removed from our universe) anti-vaxxers, crystal-gazers and pharmaceutical conspiracy theorists have now found bedfellows with the right-wingers, who seem to think public health measures can be equated to rape and oppression. (They've clearly not experienced rape and oppression and should be washing their mouths out with soap. This really _is_ offensive, on behalf of sexual assault survivors and people who experience _actual_ oppression. It's just the epitome of entitlement, narcissism, professional victimhood and bad taste.)




gottatrot said:


> @SueC, have you ever watched any of Atom Egoyan's movies? They probably would be quite offensive to some, but I find them very interesting. I think you wouldn't be bothered by the subjects. Something he is very good at is showing how many things are not black and white, but human perspectives from different angles make everything look different. People who seem bad are not always that way when seen in a different light. Some very interesting ones are Felicia's Journey, Exotica, Family Viewing, and the Sweet Hereafter.


That sounds Turkish. We're not familiar, but will have a look. Thanks for the recommendation. 😎 I'm reading a novel at the moment that you might like, because beautifully written and so insightful and all show-don't tell, just brilliantly done, called _Sorrow and Bliss_, by NZ author Meg Mason (have you read that, @MeditativeRider? I only got it because I heard an author interview on Radio National last week and was intrigued, but you've probably heard of her before! Before that the last consciously NZ authored book I read was Keri Hulmes' _The Bone People_...).

I remember we were talking about Japanese novels last year and exchanging some recommendations. So many amazing novels, only fourscore years etc.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Knave said:


> I am surprised you said the Mennonites are anti gun


Mennonites and Amish have a doctrine of non-resistance. No fighting, no combat. They do hunt with guns.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I didn't write clearly enough. What I meant was that being open and accepted for any type of sexual orientation is not questioned at all in society here on the west coast for a few years now, and so having any discussion or even hinting about not accepting someone would mean you would lose your job or business.

Coworkers will say they are celebrating a year of marriage, regardless of what type of human they are married to. People most definitely could not be fired for being lgbq+. It is the opposite...if there are two equal candidates then a company will hire the one who is lgbt+ to play it safe against discrimination claims. So definitely no one would ever discuss having a problem with that type of thing.

I will look up that book!

Atom Egoyan is Armenian ethnically, from Cairo and a Canadian citizen. Very arty type films that make you think.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Hello and welcome to the thread, @TrainedByMares!

Glad to hear it, @gottatrot - you're in Oregon after all. There's all kinds of nonsense coming out of the South re the banning of library books and today I read that the fundamentalists are up in arms because of two cartoon women having a kiss in a new Pixar movie. Corrupting the children, apparently...

I well remember what happened at Laramie not _that_ long ago, when I was teaching my first bunch of Year 12 students. We then got serious about countering that kind of hate, via the Australian curriculum.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

SueC said:


> Hello and welcome to the thread, @TrainedByMares!
> 
> Glad to hear it, @gottatrot - you're in Oregon after all. There's all kinds of nonsense coming out of the South re the banning of library books and today I read that the fundamentalists are up in arms because of two cartoon women having a kiss in a new Pixar movie. Corrupting the children, apparently...
> 
> I well remember what happened at Laramie not _that_ long ago, when I was teaching my first bunch of Year 12 students. We then got serious about countering that kind of hate, via the Australian curriculum.


Thank you @SueC I enjoy reading the discussion


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*A SOGGY WEEKEND, A SHORT THIRD RIDE AND IDEAS FOR NEXT WEEK*


This is a horse. You know, large mammal, evolved from a cat-sized forest thing many moons ago. Some hominids that came down from the trees eventually hit upon the idea of riding on the backs of these things. You kind of wonder whose idea that was, and how many might have had that idea independently. Wouldn't you want to interview these people, if you had a TARDIS? I would. Where would they sit on the Myer-Briggs personality test, and where would you find them on the Wibbleton-Wobbleton lunacy scale?

Over four decades ago (where does the time go?), this particular typing hominid who is wiggling her fingers over these keys - or leastways a prior, less arthritic, but also less adept-at-typing incarnation - _somehow_ decided that riding on the back of that kind of large animal sounded like an interesting and fun thing to do. This was at a time when other things many little hominids, including my prior incarnation, thought were interesting and fun things to do included chewing wildly pink gum and blowing it into big bubbles, making yo-yos go up and down and all over the place on a bit of string, throwing frisbees and boomerangs, solving the original Rubik's Cube, hanging out at the circus when it was in town begging to brush and muck out ponies, going to the local dairy and asking the farming family if we could brush their cows, flying kites, ice skating, roller skating, rolling in mud, making cubby houses, and riding our bicycles pretending they were horses. My bicycle was called Isabella and had "reins" hanging off the handlebars. And there wasn't a screen in sight anywhere - what bliss! 😋

But I digress. I don't know why, and I seriously thought about giving it up when Sunsmart died in November, but I'm _still_ riding around on the back of a large animal - in Julian's case, because he was there already and because he likes to do something different. He's the one in the picture above.

It was a terribly soggy weekend. The rain came down and down and the temperatures dropped. We spent most of it indoors, largely horizontal, reading novels and online items of interest, with Brett doing a bit of programming as well, and we didn't do a scrap of work for the whole weekend - for a change. Yesterday we went out in our raincoats for an hour to walk the dog. Today we made Blackforest Pancakes for brunch after a long lie-in - nice eggy pancakes spread with Nutella before being covered in our own Morello cherries, cream and flaked almonds. We kept an eye on the weather but it was _bleh_.

Finally, in the late afternoon, a wedge of sunlight came through the clouds, and the rain stopped pouring down. Owing to our lovely hiking day last Thursday around Peaceful Bay, bad weather, exhaustion, and necessary tasks, it had been over a week since I last worked with Julian, and I'd not ridden him since the Thursday before that (his second independent ride).

So that was quite a gap since the last ride, and you want to do that a bit more frequently if possible when starting out with a horse. It is a good thing he has an excellent memory, because he didn't bat an eyelid when I got on his back today and riding him felt somehow normal, which is not how you'd usually describe something you've only done three times. Once again, we did a combined lap of the valley floor with Brett and Jess the dog coming along. Today we went up the sand track behind the house and basically I did a lot of stop-start practice with him, and holding the halt. (Brett was saying to me, "You've been stopping for about five seconds each time, you need to do a longer halt and mix it up a bit or he'll think "stop" means "stop five seconds" - how lovely to see that my husband is actually getting the idea of horse training and pulling me up if I'm asleep at the wheel! 😍)

So stop-starting over a dozen times today, Julian began to "get" the seat aids and respond to those before I even applied reins, which is what you want to see, and I'm amazed he's doing this on his third session. When we got to the south boundary, Brett went through the gate to the neighbour's block to walk around the dry track the other side of the dam, while Jess, Julian and I continued along our side of the boundary, to _the great big muddy water-puddle_. For a moment Julian said, "Should I not be over the other side there with Brett?" before walking after Jess, and wondering where Brett had disappeared to (behind the bushes, behind the dam).

Because I've seen all of this before, I was watching closely to make sure Julian wouldn't get startled once Brett reappeared into view later on. I was directing his attention to it when I could see glimpses of my husband through the foliage on the other side of _the great big muddy water-puddle_, and then through the kangaroo gate (which Julian won't fit through) back to our side of the fence. "Look, where's Brett?"

No startling, but keen interest in Brett's reappearance. And we were, at this point, standing in front of _the_ _great big muddy water-puddle_, which was much bigger and muddier than last time we crossed it on our second ride, when Brett was able to use the stepping stones to go before the horse like a good ostler, and show him how it was done.

So here's Julian on one side of _the_ _great big muddy water-puddle_, and Brett on t'other, waving at him. Julian, in his confusion, looks at the water and offers a really perfect, but unasked-for, picture-book-balanced, completely straight, evenly spaced, super-composed rein-back - the first I've ridden on him. Since it was going so well, I decided very quickly to apply actual rein-back cues while he was doing it - and to back him another step when he'd stopped volunteering. I thanked him kindly - it looked and rode like a textbook dressage ring rein-back - and then asked him to go forward, and he went up to and through _the_ _great big muddy water-puddle _with very little hesitation, and no hysterics, immediately receiving warm praise from both hominids present.

On the way home on the swamp track, I just rode companionably next to a walking Brett. I stopped him just once to dismount, and then get back on him; then we went on our way. I forgot to mention that on the south boundary, while we were waiting for Brett to show up again, I asked Julian for some tight circle-lefts across the vehicle track, and his very first one was the size of a standard volte, not a great big cargo ship manoeuvre. Well done, there! He's really getting it.

So that's why we just enjoyed riding through the landscape on the way back, with no further brakes-and-steering practice. A couple of times he offered to trot, but I'm not going to do that until we've done a bit more brakes-and-steering work. We rode out of the heathland into the middle meadow and then, by the farm dam, I decided to get off him, take his gear off, and let him go free there with the others. I thanked the horse, and Brett and I walked home.










I have some ideas for what I could do this week. I think I'm ready to ride Julian without someone else tagging along, if I set up an arena or some kind of playground. I have some tyres and drums and things I could put out, and we could ride slaloms, and turns, and set up some gymkhana stuff, and practice that at the walk. That should get the brakes and steering finely tuned very quickly, while also being a safe activity for me to do on a green riding horse on my own in the middle of nowhere.

Which means I could get half an hour of practice in whenever the weather is nice, instead of waiting for Thursdays or weekends to intersect with good weather.

Who's got playground stuff set up at home? My Arabian mare was super at gymkhana stuff and we competed in it. I didn't do stuff like this with Sunsmart because he wasn't into it and preferred going on trails, but Julian might enjoy it, from what I am gathering from our early rides. I think he might like the idea of games.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I think it is good to have these relationships. It is good we are all friends and not of like minds. I say this because most of the people we surround ourselves with share our similar cultures and beliefs.

Yes, likely I would not be persuaded into changing to a liberal belief system, but I have only been exposed to my mother’s sisters, and they are especially vocal about things they have no knowledge of, like mustangs on the range. They know only what they have been told, and do not know how to live with the land.

Now, we all on here know we enjoy each other. We know there are people we like and respect who have opinions who differ from our own, that we also have a lot in common with and relationships we would like to maintain. We must then become tolerant and understanding of things outside of ourselves.

It is why I say it is good for my kids to be exposed to other things. Outside things.

I have seen children who are not exposed to outside beliefs, and they have no ability to handle such things. I had a high school student have a mental breakdown because another child swore. I was disgusted. You have to be able to be around things different than yourself. It doesn’t mean you must change who you are, your morals or beliefs, but you do have to tolerate others that do not personally effect you. You have to try and have empathy and see things from another perspective.

So, maybe one does not wish to have a conversation about if the world is flat. We of course see that people have boated and flown around the world. Yet, I believe that we must be willing to listen to other’s logic. It doesn’t change our belief, but we might really like them and appreciate them for their own way of thinking.

I have no tolerance for a rapist, or a child killer, or things I find worth killing over, but the majority of people we can understand if we try and look from their perspective. Even my mother’s one particular sister, who I have a hard time with, has things that make her interesting. Some people like that I prefer to avoid, and I do, but it is good to see perspectives that are different than my own.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Knave said:


> So, maybe one does not wish to have a conversation about if the world is flat. We of course see that people have boated and flown around the world. Yet, I believe that we must be willing to listen to other’s logic. It doesn’t change our belief, but we might really like them and appreciate them for their own way of thinking.


You've done it again, @Knave - wonderful post. 🐙

To me this is a bit like listening to music. I have broad tastes and I can appreciate things even when I aesthetically don't like them, for other reasons. But there are some things I dislike, and will not listen to, because life is short etc. However: If someone I like turns out to enjoy music I dislike, I will make an exception for them and typically ask them to play me a song that means something to them and then explain what they like about it. And something happens then that stops the "echhh" reaction and puts me in a different frame of mind where I am trying to be in their shoes and learn something about them. Because this means something to someone I care about, I have to be kind and polite and not have negative body language, and this happens automatically because I am not listening for pleasure, I am listening to understand a person I like better, and to let them broaden my ideas.

It wouldn't work for every song - like even under those circumstances I couldn't listen to something sadistic or just attitudinally vile without in that case viscerally showing disgust (but I would still listen and discuss and try to understand about the person playing it to me), but actually that is just hypothetical, because that's not happened to me yet. If it did, then we could still both compare reactions and reasons for them.

You also wouldn't do it for every person. The like and respect has to be there or it won't work. You also won't suddenly change your entire musical taste because of them, or volunteer to only listen to their stuff from then on and not yours anymore. You are you and they are them, different people. But you will understand another person better and have seen a little through their eyes, and you will understand more why other people like a particular type of music, and appreciate this. That is a really worthwhile thing.

Sometimes you meet people who you invite to play you music they like that you don't, and after you have listened to it and them, they want you to listen to more and more. Maybe you do for a while, and eventually you say, "I have a song for you to listen to." And they do not listen with respect, and do not make an effort to see outside of their own perspective, and they do not care about you, only that the whole world should listen to their songs because the whole world needs lessons in superior musical taste and they are willing to provide the tuition out of the goodness of their heart.

This is a true story. I stopped being friends with someone like this last year. Friendship is a two-way street, and an egalitarian thing. If someone wants to put you on a pedestal, you can say to them, "No, my friend, we speak face to face, from the same earth." But if someone wants to put themselves above you and will not come down, eventually you take yourself away from there, and find other people whose feet are in the earth.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Hi Sue, All!

The foto you posted looks like it was probably taken looking South from Castlewood Canyon State Park. I have added some labels, and re-posted it:









Elizabeth is 7 or 8 miles in a straight line behind and to the left (East) of the photographer. Maybe 12 miles driving.
I have attached a foto of Pikes Peak after a late-spring storm, looking South from "Greenland Open Space"; a county park a couple of miles North of Palmer Lake. Greenland, Pikes Peak, and the South ridge of Mt. Herman. "After the Storm". If you look closely, you can see the "new" Summit House on Pikes Peak.









Here is another foto taken from almost the same spot, but looking North-East. "Moonrise over Greenland." Can you visualize the the various features from your foto, as viewed from the opposite side?










I have a more-than-passing interest in computer imagery, _and_ I have a 24in Epson Fine-Art printer. I have both of these images printed on canvas, framed and on display here at home. The foto of Pikes Peak was taken with a Nikon DSLR, and a 300mm telephoto lens; the Moonscape was acquired with an iPhone. I like my "real" camera, but honestly I use the iPhone camera at least 10X more often. Sort of embarrassing to admit it, but most of the time it captures better images, especially in low light.
I think part of the school art-class reaction over the Mule-Stool was that various parts have been sourced from discarded ladies undergarments. I guess they thought it in poor taste. Whatever.
Red Rocks is a visually stunning natural amphitheater. I have attended a couple of Rock concerts there (many, many years ago), and found the acoustics objectionable due to excess reverberation. It might not be as bad w/o the massive amplification prerequisite for a Rock-n-Roll concert.
I have read thru most of the social discussion above, and am nominally in accord with most of the expressed concerns. While I am disinclined toward proselytization, I will contribute the following:
It is important to acknowledge, at least to ourselves, how little we actually know about our world (Know as in personally acquired knowledge), vs that which we believe/desire to be true. (Based on second-hand input from any source.) I will mention one approach to separating the wheat from the chaff which I feel is a crucial skill. "Critical Thinking." It is probably not what you think:
Critical_thinking
My $.02, and guaranteed to be worth every penny you've paid for it :-D

(Edit) A foto of our new home in Elizabeth, from the street. November 09, 2020, and it's snowing. I meant to drop it in, but forgot . . .


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

@george the mule - that was a good link. I liked this part:
_"One does not use critical thinking to solve problems—one uses critical thinking to improve one's process of thinking."_

That is what I think gets me in trouble sometimes. I find it helpful to put ideas out, even when I disagree with them, because I believe you really have to present all sides and thoughts regarding a subject in order to fully understand it. If you don't look at other perspectives, it is more difficult to find out where your own biases might be. It is a process I enjoy, but if you look at all sides of a subject, there will be some you disagree with or feel emotional about. So a lot of people don't really enjoy doing this. 

If your goal is to come to a solid conclusion rather than improve your process of thinking, it doesn't work out as well. Of course you can make a decision, but it must be acknowledged that many things have a lot of supporting evidence on opposing sides, and many things can only be theorized and not proven. You also can't use it to support something you strongly believe in. That will lead you to using arguments that don't hold up to scrutiny and are based on bias.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Hi Steve / @george the mule, thanks for your post and lovely photos! I noticed you used the same "B-grade" source as me earlier for another matter, to link to an article on critical thinking, _meow_! 🐱🐽😜 Critical thinking is something I taught for many years and am a huge fan of, and it seems to me that an alternative definition appears to exist in certain circles, than what is very succinctly explained _even_ on Wikipedia. It's quite extraordinary to me how conspiracy theorists pride themselves on their critical thinking, for instance, and seem to wish to lecture the whole world on the matter, as if they invented the concept, when they'd not pass a formal test on it. That then links back to Dunning-Kruger, confirmation bias, etc.

I'd link to that last concept but am on an iPad, where everything takes ten times longer, so I only do short uncomplicated things with it (it's good for reading, and for preventing me writing 2,000 words for fun when I should be doing something else). I'm sure you're au fait with that anyway but in case anyone else isn't. Preferred narratives, that's when we get into the land of psychology, which explains the attachment and why objectively intelligent people can end up championing nonsense, such as the items on the list posted earlier, or some of the items commonly found in horse instruction manuals, etc etc etc.

One of the problems for scientists is that you can't explain quantum mechanics, evolutionary biology, complex systems modelling, etc, or even critical thinking, in soundbites, which appears to be the preferred communication method for many people these days. These things need to be learnt, and some of them take many years of painstaking and dedicated personal application to acquire. And then it becomes quite impossible to debate fruitfully about it with antagonistic people who have at best a high school level understanding of the concept they are trying to discredit. Concepts need to be thorougly understood before they can be properly critiqued. That is why peer review is peer review, not review by the general public. It's not perfect, but your odds of getting a useful radiology report are much better when an actual radiologist looks at the imagery than when an architect or a high school student or a mechanic look at it. And that's despite the fact that there are also fairly incompetent radiologists, as with any profession, and that they will make mistakes. As a process though, it's resulted in a lot of useful things, including a far better conceptual understanding of physics, chemistry, physiology, microbiology, genetics, etc etc etc than we had 100 years ago, 50 years ago, 20 years ago. It's a progression.

It doesn't help that shonky papers are written in less academically stringent domains like nutrition, which have been peddling incorrect advice for generations, for reasons I offered an opinion on earlier - or that shonky science has for decades been produced by allowing people with vested interests, like the tobacco lobby or ALCOA or agribusiness, to hold the purse strings of what should be independent research - or that people have entered science to push their intrinsic bigotry about women, coloured people, LGBTIQ, non-human species etc, just as many shonky doctors are making a buck out of their MDs by writing shonky books on all sorts of matters on which they are actually largely wrong.

Sorting through all that stuff is a bit like looking at food packaging information, or at insurance policies - there is so much you need to know and be aware of, and it's a giant headache. Except that these examples are far simpler to unscramble than things that require infinitely more conceptual understanding.

@george the mule, thanks for orienting us to your new home and the virtual tour! 😎That last photo reminds me a bit of Kendenup, which is an hour inland from us and searchable. Love the photos and the camera commentary. I agree about the quality of phone photos possible. I don't have a smartphone and take an ancient iPod when I want to take horseback photos, or when we can't be bothered with the proper camera, as happened on the coastal hike I ended up documenting here from last Thursday - and while those are OK, they're not great. Very creative title there on your moonlit photo!

I saw that about the recycled underwear and commend your young artist on her creative recycling and repurposing, as well as her iconoclasm and joie de vivre.

And might one enquire which ear-blasting rock acts you saw at Red Rocks?

@gottatrot, yes, thinking about thinking is way more important still than thinking about issues.

PS: Forgot to say, @TrainedByMares, I'm doing some meandering through your journal and really enjoying the stories and photos. Lovely scenery, and comments on local architecture, and as always with photos like yours I keep an eagle eye out for construction details of useful things like fences, barn doors etc, which have quite a bit of regional and international variation. I am the outdoors maintenance person around here, don't have a tractor so everything by hand, and grew up in a household where I wasn't allowed near power tools or construction because I'm female...(unless you count the vacuum cleaner as a power tool - I guess it is if you compare it to sucking dust with a straw...)

So it's a bit unnecessarily uphill, although we have managed to owner-build a house and shed, and did more than half the work with our own hands. I got very good at tiling too...but I really really dislike motors, and working with them, and unfortunately, so does Brett. So that gets minimised and outsourced. But this year I desperately need to do some fence upgrades. We couldn't find a contractor, so it looks like I am going to have to dig in half a dozen strainer posts by hand, with rock under the surface, ugh...

When I saw your pumpkin patch I immediately wondered if you grow Pennsylvania Crooknecks in your assortment of varieties. They are one of my favourites, though sadly this summer I couldn't grow them because we had a very short growing season owing to unseasonally cool temperatures. The whole cucurbit harvest was halved, but we did get some Turk's Turbans, Tromboncinos, and a single super-sized Musque de Provence...plus cucumbers for three months and belated zucchini for four and counting...


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

SueC said:


> Hi Steve / @george the mule, thanks for your post and lovely photos! I noticed you used the same "B-grade" source as me earlier for another matter, to link to an article on critical thinking, _meow_! 🐱🐽😜 Critical thinking is something I taught for many years and am a huge fan of, and it seems to me that an alternative definition appears to exist in certain circles, than what is very succinctly explained _even_ on Wikipedia. It's quite extraordinary to me how conspiracy theorists pride themselves on their critical thinking, for instance, and seem to wish to lecture the whole world on the matter, as if they invented the concept, when they'd not pass a formal test on it. That then links back to Dunning-Kruger, confirmation bias, etc.
> 
> I'd link to that last concept but am on an iPad, where everything takes ten times longer, so I only do short uncomplicated things with it (it's good for reading, and for preventing me writing 2,000 words for fun when I should be doing something else). I'm sure you're au fait with that anyway but in case anyone else isn't. Preferred narratives, that's when we get into the land of psychology, which explains the attachment and why objectively intelligent people can end up championing nonsense, such as the items on the list posted earlier, or some of the items commonly found in horse instruction manuals, etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you enjoy reading the journal! I enjoy adding to it and I also enjoy reading other journals. No, Pennsylvania Crookneck squash is not on my planting list. I like the orange jack-o-lantern style pumpkin . Let's not talk about zucchini. 
Pennsylvania is renowned for it's rocky soil and digging holes by hand with a digging bar is par for the course. I have an 3-point auger attachment for the tractor but the rocks can stop it in it's tracks. A couple of the big digging bars that I have were my grandfather's so I kind of enjoy using them just for that reason. A connection with the past. Working with one's hands seems to be falling out of style so it's likely those bars will be laid to rest with me someday. 
Keep up the good work on your house and property! I loved the pictures of the shoreline and other hikes and walks!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@TrainedByMares I actually half enjoy digging postholes by hand as well. There is something about it that is satisfying. I also enjoy fencing in itself. I like seeing the end result of what you have built. I don’t enjoy fixing fence as much as building a new fence entirely.

I am not one who believes in getting the tractor with the posthole digger unless there are more that six to ten holes to dig. After that I understand the use, but it’s not necessary to me. It is faster. We have places the rocks stop it too, but bar them and go back to it.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Knave said:


> @TrainedByMares I actually half enjoy digging postholes by hand as well. There is something about it that is satisfying. I also enjoy fencing in itself. I like seeing the end result of what you have built. I don’t enjoy fixing fence as much as building a new fence entirely.
> 
> I am not one who believes in getting the tractor with the posthole digger unless there are more that six to ten holes to dig. After that I understand the use, but it’s not necessary to me. It is faster. We have places the rocks stop it too, but bar them and go back to it.


I know! I love building fences but not much into maintenance! You're right, it is satisfying to build it. I planted a 4 acre field in pasture grasses last fall and now I'm going to fence it and cross fence it for the cattle. I'm actually excited about the job!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@Knave, Brett was saying, "How much is a plane ticket?" when I read him your comment. 😁 @TrainedByMares, thanks for your thoughts too!

Well, you two, it seems you have solved the first of my problems. Because I don't mind digging post holes (the person we bought the property off gave us his original old post hole shovel and it's excellent and you should see how good the handle is even though it's really old) but didn't know what to do about the rocks in some places underneath.

It seems what I need to do is go ask my neighbour if he has a crow bar I can borrow. They have all the old tools there so I'm sure they will have half a dozen.

What I'm trying to do is to upgrade the internal fencing we did to make two 2-hectare paddocks safe for horses when we bought the place in 2010 so that they will also take cattle older than yearlings (you know, the bulldozers they turn into when they get big and start laughing at your fences, even electric ones). That internal fencing was originally done like this:

It's just star pickets and turbo-braid; top and bottom are hot wires and the centre line is earth, so the kangaroos can get in and out of the paddocks freely without shocking themselves (which they do).

Those fences were super easy to put up and work very well with horses and donkeys, and used to work OK-ish with cattle when the turbo-braid could be induced to run at 5kV or over. The fence unit provides up to 9kV on plain wire, but turbo-braid loses conductivity over distance, and quickly as it ages, and particularly if cattle decide to climb through anywhere - it breaks the little internal wires. I actually spent a lot of time early on looking for fence faults because of this, because I wouldn't know where the animals had gone through and internal breaks had happened. In fact, I even wrote some frustration ditties at the time when we established our farm. Here's some for your amusement, including some from owner building and learning to do farm-related tax...

ELECTRIC FENCE BLUES

When a cow stands in your acacias going “moo”
Repairing the electric fence is what you do
Of earth faults the fence gadget gives you warning
And you look for them till one in the morning!


OWNER BUILDER BURNOUT

The house conundrums made me flat
Flatter than the mat on which the cat sat
One day a week I am depressed
Should I be getting some more rest?
To Redmond I could not be goaded
I hope my mare has not exploded.


ODE TO INSULATION

Our R-values are thrilling all
But mirror, mirror on the wall
Look upon these scratchy hives
I hope we still have healthy lives…


THE INSULATION SONG

Scratchy, itchy, sneezy days
Insulating everyways
Walls and ceiling furry brown
In the shower I hose me down…


O FOR A SABBATH

A Sabbath is a fine idea
For the prevention of the tear
To work day in, day out is foul
And goads me terribly to howl
A human is a robot not
The Sabbath ought not be forgot.


THE WOES OF CONCRETE CLEANING

Excavating the coloured concrete floor from beneath the grime
Is verily not the most productive and wonderful time
Plagued are we again by efflorescence and tar
Two days’ work already and we haven’t got far
Where will this end?
How will it mend?


ELECTRICAL BLUES

Switches, light fittings, power points tantalise
How long till we can light the place up? We fantasise
Alas, bureaucratic rules decree
And a while longer again wait we
So the carpenter isn’t ELECTROCUTED by rules
We will dig our heels in like disgruntled mules.


BAS DAY

(Business Activity Statements, done quarterly to reclaim goods & services tax on business items...)

Alas, I can’t enjoy the BAS
Number-crunching, filing, fuss
Capital or not, I ask
Enough to drive one to the flask
To spend a day in BAS dismay
The only time you shout hooray
Is when you finish the dam'n thing
That $200 next week shall bring!


...and speaking of farm-related tax...






This is SO true and exactly how it was for me.  👹


But I've digressed. Back to fences. Looking for turbo-braid faults got old, so we ended up throwing the older cattle out altogether into our large "common" and keeping those 4 hectares mainly for horses, donkeys and young cattle. And I kept the fence dividing the common from the internally fenced areas hot by checking it lots. But one day the cows got into the garden, and our neighbour took pity on us and came over with his tractor and expertise. He made a proper fence with us along the driveway and around our house so that the internal 4 hectares and the gardens / F&V growing areas around our house could no longer be invaded by cattle.

He had a post-hole digger on his tractor and sunk the strainer posts with that. This is a deluxe fence with alternating hot and earth wires. The high-tensile wire carries at least 8kV at all times - very good. We put in the sight tape for the horses.

All I want is enough strainer posts to string a single proper hot wire in the middle of the existing internal fencing, while keeping the old turbo-braid on the top and bottom for the horses.

The complication is that the boundary fence with the forest isn't straight and can't be, so more strainer posts will be needed there than if you had a straight fence...

Those cattle are still of a non-destructive age, which is why you see them in those paddocks.

We have enough coils of high-tensile wire in the shed we were given with the property. I think they are recycled. I have a spinning jenny but haven't used it and will need some YT tutorials. I also don't know if the wire will unspin easily - there may be a trick to it, especially with recycled wire...


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Hi Sue, All

One show I recall well was seeing ZZ Top at Red Rocks. One wouldn't really expect sonic perfection from ZZ Top, but it was too loud, and most of the time it was hard to make out the lyrics. But it was a lot of fun; I mean "ZZ Top !!!" Also saw Jethro Tull there, a long, longer-long time ago. That concert was a disaster; the crowd was unreasonably rowdy, and when Tull did finally get on stage, it was loud and distorted, and you couldn't really make much out of the music. And we were too far from the stage to really appreciate the choreography. I do recall it being their "Aqualung" tour.
I also recall seeing Dan Fogelburg there, with some local bands. The audience was smaller, and quieter, and we were sitting only a few rows back from the stage. The music was of a quieter nature as well, and I don't recall any real "Whangy-Clangy" issues with the sound at that show.
This was in the '70s / early '80s. It was not unusual to emerge from a concert with your ears ringing, and distortion was generally accepted as a part of the show. Searching back thru my memory banks, the first concert I recall attending where the sonic quality approached that appreciated while listening to a vinyl album on the home stereo was a Stevie Wonder show at The Denver Coliseum (maybe?). He was playing stuff from "Songs in the Key of Life", and it was an awesome show. However by the mid-'80s, I had pretty much lost interest in going to concerts; I've only been to a few since.
I'm mostly deaf now (probably _not_ from the loud music, tho), and can't even hear well enough to play my guitar, or tell if I am singing in tune. I still sing for the Equines occasionally; they're not overly critical 
Lacy. Lacy is a very graceful creature, especially considering her size. She is almost Feline in her movements. She has never had problems with cleaning off table-tops, or knocking stuff over, but she has been known to (er, um) disassemble various household items, most notably my (cheap) reading glasses. She has destroyed several pairs.
Lacy. Photography. Here is foto from a walk in the Foothills the other day. Very dry conditions in the hills, and the only flashy Spring-time flowers I found were these rather sinister-looking ones growing in a marshy area. I was trying to get in close enough for a decent framing w/o getting my feet wet, and Lacy came over to help. I shoo'd her off, but this accidental capture turned out to be the most interesting one of the bunch:









(Edit to add) iPhone 12 Pro Max; 2.5x lens selection.
(Edit Again) I loathe manual post-hole diggers, and I'm not overly fond of driving "T" posts ("star-pickets" ?), but I don't mind installing/repairing fence once the uprights are in place.
"What? Me, Lazy . . ."


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*ATTIC UPDATE*

Further to my prior post about finishing our attic: I've been beavering away at woodwork, cleaning and painting, in preparation for our final wall-plastering day which is scheduled for Saturday.

This is the woodwork I've been doing - cutting skirting boards, cornice and a window architrave for the plasterboard walls, plus supports for under the strawbale wall where it sits over the staircase.



That's the finished and now dry walls in the background to those photos.

The cutting to precise lengths and particularly the angles were time-consuming. I've been using my drop saw to cut firewood, which has bent the back support, which means the set angles are slightly off and I have to compensate for it because I can't get the replacement part (typical problem nowadays; have to buy a whole new thing when one part breaks and I refuse to do it).

Then countersinking and sanding, including taking all the sharp edges off all around (I have a good rotary sander). Then cleaning up the whole place covered in dust! Yesterday and today I was painting the pieces, with clear coat with a bit of white pigment in it for a milkwash effect. I have a tiny roller which makes that really easy and fast compared to using a paintbrush, but I did have to do three coats of everything, and the two sides you do in one turn of painting have to dry before you can do the other sides, so that was a lot of waiting and doing other things meanwhile. Tonight it's all done though and can theoretically be put up tomorrow, but it's our recreation day.

I also painted the unpainted wall green this week (two coats) and put a refresher coat on the window wall while I was at it, because it had been 7 years since I originally painted it...

That wall on the right is the one we still need to do the last coat on. Here's the bit I needed to make special woodwork for:

When I install it, I'll share a photo and you will see how it solves a problem!


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

SueC said:


> @Knave, Brett was saying, "How much is a plane ticket?" when I read him your comment. 😁 @TrainedByMares, thanks for your thoughts too!
> 
> Well, you two, it seems you have solved the first of my problems. Because I don't mind digging post holes (the person we bought the property off gave us his original old post hole shovel and it's excellent and you should see how good the handle is even though it's really old) but didn't know what to do about the rocks in some places underneath.
> 
> ...


These rhymes! These rhymes! 
Such a waste of time!
Lest you regret the day,
Get back to work I say

Lol!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I love silly rhymes, @TrainedByMares - thank you kindly for your contribution. 😎

It occurred to me a while back that crustacean rhymes with bus station. And then, of course, I had to make use of this fact.


_THE CRUSTACEAN AT THE BUS STATION 🦀

There was a fine crustacean
At Waterloo Bus Station
His name was Mr Crab
And he came in a cab
After a scrumptious Devonshire Tea
He was returning to the sea
Quite looking forward to the ride
That would return him to the tide
He was missing the little fishes
And had lots of watery wishes
When you next stand beside the sea
Remember Mr Crab for me!_




george the mule said:


> One show I recall well was seeing ZZ Top at Red Rocks. One wouldn't really expect sonic perfection from ZZ Top, but it was too loud, and most of the time it was hard to make out the lyrics. But it was a lot of fun; I mean "ZZ Top !!!" Also saw Jethro Tull there, a long, longer-long time ago. That concert was a disaster; the crowd was unreasonably rowdy, and when Tull did finally get on stage, it was loud and distorted, and you couldn't really make much out of the music. And we were too far from the stage to really appreciate the choreography. I do recall it being their "Aqualung" tour.
> 
> I also recall seeing Dan Fogelburg there, with some local bands. The audience was smaller, and quieter, and we were sitting only a few rows back from the stage. The music was of a quieter nature as well, and I don't recall any real "Whangy-Clangy" issues with the sound at that show.
> This was in the '70s / early '80s. It was not unusual to emerge from a concert with your ears ringing, and distortion was generally accepted as a part of the show. Searching back thru my memory banks, the first concert I recall attending where the sonic quality approached that appreciated while listening to a vinyl album on the home stereo was a Stevie Wonder show at The Denver Coliseum (maybe?). He was playing stuff from "Songs in the Key of Life", and it was an awesome show. However by the mid-'80s, I had pretty much lost interest in going to concerts; I've only been to a few since.


Isn't it funny that some acts, promoters, whatever result in concerts that are just too loud. The one time in my life I paid a disgusting big-act ticket price was to see U2/BB King in 1989, my very first concert, which I saved up all my pennies for and was then terribly disappointed - the gig was turned up too loud and combined with the horrible acoustics of the venue this was both pain-inducing and actually too loud to hear; the instrumental part of the band played well as far as I could tell given the physical problems I was getting with the sound, but Bono really didn't sing well, his voice was all over the shop, and he annoyed shiitake out of me with his stupid spotlighting of the audience - I was thinking he maybe ought to pay more attention to singing properly than doing those kinds of unnecessary escapades...and yet I have their Red Rocks concert film from 1983 and they were superb in that.

The other things I saw at the Perth Entertainment Centre in the 80s/90s were medium-price acts, like Clannad and Hothouse Flowers and Riverdance, all of whom were infinitely better live than that U2 gig was (and didn't cause injury to my ears). Hothouse Flowers, by the way, would be easy to dismiss if you just heard their radio songs from a certain era, but are fantastic live and have huge depth and versatility hidden on their actual records; plus their singer mesmerised the crowd with a capella pieces in Gaelic in-between their more popular stuff - and post Hothouse Flowers that's exactly what he's gone back to doing - traditional music.

That concert impressed me so much I also went to see them at the Belvoir Amphitheatre that week; much better venue - open-air and great acoustics. In Sydney (2002-2004) I went to see the Harlem Gospel Choir at a wonderful small-ish classical venue - very like our Albany Town Hall, where I saw the Australian Chamber Orchestra in 1999 when they and me were all young'uns, and lots of other people from various genres. We pay between $30 and $50 per person for entry to those local concerts - and when the Perth International Arts Festival sends acts down to us they're subsidised, so I've seen international acts for under $50 at various venues around town - and most memorably, Capercaillie on the sloped lawns behind the Vancouver Arts Centre in a wonderful, intimate gig in which complete strangers ended up dancing around in big circles with each other and little kids were doing cartwheels around the picnic blankets - if you saw them in a city, it would be a far bigger crowd, so this was fantastic - to see a well-known band in such a small venue!

In recent years we've been to see Irish accordionist Sharon Shannon, The Original Chicago Blues All-Stars, and Steve Kilbey (singer and bass player from Australian alternative band The Church) & Friends doing the first two albums from The Church re-worked with strings added. All these were local gigs and all were excellent, and not at a ridiculous volume.

ZZ Top, I've not seen live but remember that they got played at my middle school social and were rather nice compared to the bubblegum pop on offer in the mid-80s!




george the mule said:


> I'm mostly deaf now (probably _not_ from the loud music, tho), and can't even hear well enough to play my guitar, or tell if I am singing in tune. I still sing for the Equines occasionally; they're not overly critical
> Lacy. Lacy is a very graceful creature, especially considering her size. She is almost Feline in her movements. She has never had problems with cleaning off table-tops, or knocking stuff over, but she has been known to (er, um) disassemble various household items, most notably my (cheap) reading glasses. She has destroyed several pairs.
> Lacy. Photography. Here is foto from a walk in the Foothills the other day. Very dry conditions in the hills, and the only flashy Spring-time flowers I found were these rather sinister-looking ones growing in a marshy area. I was trying to get in close enough for a decent framing w/o getting my feet wet, and Lacy came over to help. I shoo'd her off, but this accidental capture turned out to be the most interesting one of the bunch:
> View attachment 1131044
> ...


Beautiful flower shot and backdrop! 😍

Brett likes photographing small things - here's one of his best ones, of a Hammer Orchid (_Drakea livida_) growing at our place. He uses an Olympus E-M5 MarkII.



The BBC came to film this species near the Stirling Ranges some years ago, and we discovered it in our own conservation remnant. The Hammer Orchid is pollinated by male wasps, by producing for them a dummy female complete with pheromones that they will try to pick up and mate with, as they ordinarily do with their own wingless females waiting for them on branches. Attempting to mate with the dummy catapults the head of the male into the stigma at the other end of the joint in the plant, and by repeatedly being duped the male will carry pollen from orchid to orchid.

I'm sorry to hear you have lost hearing - how did that happen? Microelectronics research isn't rough on the ears, is it?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*KALGAN RIVER WALK*

Just some photos from yesterday's hiking day down at the Luke Pen Walk on the banks of the Kalgan River. We walked two hours to have some exercise and a proper outing, but because we have done this one so many times before, we only took a few snaps.

Start of walk:

You can see the river down below the dog in the background - and it was incredibly full.



I expect that if we get more rain, the walk track will get flooded in parts and impassable.

We've known this log for years and remember taking one of Jess on top of it when she was young. We had a really wet winter last year which is now resulting in the accelerated decomposition of the log.
]

Moss everywhere in mid-winter...

One of the Kalgan tributaries...


From memory lane - I found some snaps of young Jess when we'd just adopted her, and us, from 2013, with a similar log, and just clowning around.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*THE LAST INTERIOR PLASTERING - AT LAST...*

We had a beautiful, blue-sky, sunny midwinter Saturday today, and I could not go riding - and may not be able to tomorrow either. This is because we are doing the finish plaster on our one remaining unfinished interior wall - our western attic wall. The bit we plastered today was the most complicated and difficult bit of plastering we have done in the entire house - the bit we had to plaster off a small platform suspended over a stairwell - on top of having to plaster entirely out of buckets that have to be dragged up the stairs, instead of a wheelbarrow. Tomorrow we have to get up bright and early to do the more straightforward remainder of the wall. I am currently sitting in bed on an electric blanket, with a cup of tea and a laptop. (So is Brett - and he's programming!)

A bit further above in Post #107 were some of this week's preparations for plastering day. Here's a few more things I did in the last couple of days:

I set up a platform over the stairwell so I could do woodwork and painting, and so we could plaster from there today. This involved bugling supporting timber ledges to the wall's structural timbers, and figuring out how to support the back edge of the platform - which I did by running a plank from the attic floor to the top of cushioning objects on a strawbale walltop at the edge of the stairwell (we can't damage its finish plaster, plus I needed extra height to make the plank run level).

The underside view:

You can see the bugles in the supports - these are special heavy-duty screws for supporting a lot of weight.

Top views:


We probably would have felt safer working off a bigger platform, but we also couldn't block up the stairwell because we need to be able to get up and down the stairs while plastering, to haul buckets of plaster, have tea breaks, etc. By the way, the platform is made of pine, will be recycled into another use when we're done, and was screwed down into the supports underneath at the wall end (but lay on the plank loosely so we could move the plank easily during plastering).

During the week I'd already tried out the platform to put expanding foam into the cavity at the top and to measure and fit woodwork. Yesterday, I painted the plywood section over the staircase, with the same milkwash-effect wood finish I have been using on the pine skirting boards, architraves and cornices, and that you can see on the staircase and our office bookshelf etc. This was after two coats:

This is after the third and final coat:

On the right-hand edge the paint decided to preferentially adhere to areas that had previously been spattered in lime plaster, but it doesn't matter because we're going to put a timber edge up right and left. There will be cornice at the top and finish timber at the bottom, and the centre of the plywood section will house something very special when we finish: A print of Brett's favourite Cyberman.








Brett ordered a signed A3 print of the artwork from the cover of this Dr Who story from the UK artist who made it in the late 70s. It arrived from the UK some months ago, and is currently at the picture framer's. Brett says this is a fantastic piece of design, so it's getting a pride of place position in the finished attic. Unless it really doesn't work there, this is where it will go.

Remember this picture?








Special woodwork was needed to fix this issue and make a wall support for the final plaster coat. This is what I made.

Expanding foam was used to fill the cavity between the woodwork and the wall. After that I made some cob to bring the curve of the wall forward over the MDF corner you can see in the first photo. Cob is a mixture of lime plaster and straw, and can be sculpted to hold its shape.


The cob was green dry by today, but I still had to put cling wrap over it while we wet the wall down in preparation for plastering today, so it wouldn't wash out. The wall-wetting before plastering takes about two hours, although not uninterrupted. We use a hose on a fine mist setting and have set up floor protection below. If you're plastering outdoors you can literally just hose the wall down and it takes much less time to apply the water. However, the plaster does need time and repeated applications of water to become moist all the way through.

A few plastering photos from today...

You can see for yourself why I wasn't singing the theme to _The Rocky Horror Picture Show_ today. You'd neither want to jump to the left, nor step to the right, or in any way forget that you can't just absent-mindedly go falling down the stairwell. We really didn't want to end up in the hospital emergency department.

The straight bit at the end of the wall was the easier part, although it was working in very cramped conditions and with Brett topping up my plaster hawk for me because there was no way a plaster bucket could go on that platform with me. It's the curve part that hung over the chasm that was the hairiest and slowest part to do today, and we did that as a team. I put on the initial plaster and shaped the flat end; Brett is our curves guy and he prettied up the plaster I'd applied on that curve.

You can see our second "floating" platform in the next photo.


...and this is where we left it tonight...

That was the least square metres we've ever plastered in a day, but it was done under rather unusual and difficult conditions. 80% of the wall to go, but it's straight and not off platforms, so will go much faster tomorrow. We have to get up early so the plaster doesn't dry to the point we can't blend it in properly when we continue.

It will be good to get it done, and it's nice that nobody ended up having an accident today. I can't tell you how many times over the past year I've worried myself about how we would possibly do this. If you wonder how we plastered the previous coats on that wall - well, that was before the staircase was there, so we just put solid MDF board over the entire gap...so it was like working off a normal floor!


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Plastering and teetering on the edge! Tough job!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FINISHING THE LAST INTERIOR STRAWBALE WALL*

Here's some photos from yesterday. Finally done.

This was Brett smoothing the plaster surface with a trowel and water spray bottle. We work top to bottom, so the wall green dries on top first, while we generally finish close to floor level the following day (and that's my job today). You can see the plaster still missing in the bottom lines. Yesterday we worked across the wall with me slapping the plaster on and smoothing as best as I could, and Brett getting on top of any green-dry areas to make the finished appearance.

I will not miss hauling plaster buckets through the house and up the stairs. 

This morning Brett said, "I have amnesia already. I've been feeding the memories from this weekend through the memory shredder." 😬

Here's that dicey and laborious wall end, all finished and beautiful:

Note the lovely bottom-edge plaster curve along the woodwork, which I spent nearly half an hour shaping until I was happy:

I did that sitting on the platform with my legs dangling into the stairwall and turning left as if side-saddle. Don't ask about my back bwahahaha. 🥳 That was the icing on top after a day carrying heavy buckets and working bent over near floor level towards the finish of the day. I am never building another house. I reckon my body had exactly one of those in it without ending completely on the scrapheap. It's a good thing we built a good one.

Here's the finished wall, waiting to dry:

Oh yeah, and that bucket and rag was to clean the lime off the floor at the end of the job before it sets - that was another half hour of working bent double. Meanwhile, Brett was cleaning the mixer and tools, putting things away and making me a fruit salad. 🥰

Anyway, so when you see my riding photos from this morning later on, you will understand why my posture is a bit lamentable in some of the pictures. 🎻 🎼

The best things about yesterday, apart from finishing the attic interior plastering at long last:

*1. *It was another sunny day, so this meant we would have lovely hot showers at the end of the day. We are off-grid and water is entirely rooftop solar heated, with a wet back to the wood heater for topping up shower temperatures at the same time as heating the interior, after a couple of overcast winter days. Our house holds heat so well it takes 24-48 hours of cold outdoors temperatures during overcast weather for us to even begin noticing cooling indoors, and if it's sunny, it doesn't matter how cold it is outside because the house heats like a greenhouse with cold-season sun angles coming right onto our exposed mass floor.

In summer the sun is higher in the sky and our eaves mostly exclude it, so temperatures are pretty self-regulating at our place, and it's actually the showers which first signal that maybe the fire should be on for an evening!

But last night we were able, at the conclusion of plastering, to luxuriate under super-hot water, which was soooo nice! 🥰

*2.* Because it was sunny, I multi-tasked during plastering and put our sheets through a rinse. Unless they are genuinely dirty, like we've accidentally got food over the covers, I just rinse the sheets in rainwater with a splash of real lavender oil added to it, and then dry them in the sun. The first time in particular you get into bed with sheets that have gone through this treatment, it is just amazing and luxurious and total bliss on your skin, plus it's a bit like going to sleep in a flower meadow but without the scratchy vegetation and the ants. Highly recommended, and this was soooooo lovely after a weekend of plastering...

*3.* Owing to efforts before the weekend, the refrigerator was stocked with re-heatable meals. We had beef, pumpkin, spinach and tomato curry with brown Basmati rice, and apart from the rice, that was >90% our own farm produce. Also, we had taco mix with our own beef and broad beans, ready to stuff shells with. A nice new sourdough bread - mostly I bake sourdough these days, since a guest late last year left some of their culture with us and taught me what he did. Home-made pesto. Zucchini and feta soup - a very smooth blended thing flavoured with oregano, great recipe. And a huge apple/mulberry strudel, again with our own fruit and berries, and with home-made custard with milk and eggs we get from nearby farmers (all free range and pasture fed).



That last photo was from our favourite kind of dining room, sadly unable to be visited this weekend, but we have Thursday off...

So we did not starve or have to cook this weekend.

*4.* Owing to Brett's foresight and excellent husbandly qualities, there was a secret stash of potato chips and Lindt chocolate he unveiled on the occasion of the weekend's hard labour. These were really welcome as between-meals grazing snacks, with cups of tea. The salty chips are really good when you're losing electrolytes - he got us salt and vinegar, and also no-artificial-anything farmhouse cheddar chips, which tasted fantastic. With the aid of half a bar of Lindt chocolate I found a second wind late yesterday afternoon. Because plastering is like this:








Please note the 6.30 to 7.00 time slot. We actually had a laminated copy of this hanging in the house when we started plastering in 2012, and we'd frequently erupt in pain-assisted hysterics whenever we walked past it...

*5*. Speaking of the 6.30 to 7.00 time slot above, we managed to have a 40-minute walk at the end of the afternoon, in-between animal feeding and feed bucket collection. There was still sunshine, and we stretched our backs and limbs and made random Tai Chi type movements in the meadow. Later on we used fence posts as anchoring points to do flat-back stretches, hamstring/calf stretches etc, and by the time we walked uphill on the ridge, we had limbered up considerably.

One down side though, the dog deserted us in the middle of our walk around our place, having sniffed out something gourmet...

This is an earlier photo of such an occasion, with a similar snack - this is a semi-decomposed kangaroo forearm. We never take this kind of thing off our dog, but she does get excluded from the house a bit if she gets herself particularly smelly - as she did last night, happily gnawing on her acquisition for hours in the garden. This morning, I'm airing the house and burning frankincense and planning to shampoo the mutt.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*MONDAY MORNING RIDE*

Brett has the 10.00 to late shift at the surgery Mondays, meaning we have a bit of leisure on Monday mornings. Incredibly, Brett said I should go riding this morning, what after the weekend of toil, and he volunteered to come along taking photos. This is still possible because Julian is in the early stages of his saddle training, where we are mostly walking; but we are fast approaching the time when we will be working at faster paces.

We had a gorgeous sunny morning - but as I type this, the rain is pouring down! Brett took photos to show the general circus that riding Julian early in the morning entails. We didn't have the camera along last time, which was last Sunday - remember how I had all these plans for setting up a horse playground so I could start doing some riding while alone on the property that didn't create unnecessary risk with a green horse? Well, what I actually ended up doing is working feverishly at the attic and the preparations for the weekend - Thursday was hiking day. So maybe that will happen this week...

When ever I have Julian on the tie rail, all the rest of the clan turn up to hobnob. Chasseur AKA Mr Buzzy likes to get up close and personal for some cuddles and scratchies, and maybe to cadge a proper brushing (we will film one soon because he is so funny when I do that).


He's just the friendliest horse and much-loved by guests getting some close-up time with large animals. He's never even dreamt of nipping or kicking a human, is not very spooky, and the chief danger you have to watch with him is that he doesn't tread on your feet in his Golden-Retriever-like attempts to snuggle up to you - or in his very horse-like attempts to show you his itchy tail. 

I mentioned a while back that last summer was the first time this horse dropped weight - he turned 28 just before Christmas and inherited his sire's tendency to err on the lean side no matter how much roughage he eats. I quadrupled his horse kibbles this summer, half of them a special senior formula - and thankfully he is doing well on that. You can see his ribs are now covered and he's got a bit more muscle than he did in summer - in part because he's galloping around with Julian now that he's got 4L of concentrate feed a day. Thankfully he doesn't need anything soaked or mushed up.

More good news - when Brett asked Greg our farrier friend the other day if he knew anyone who still did manual-tool horse dentistry, he told us he did! Oh if only I'd known that before...anyway, problem solved, this means I can attend to this matter again after an unsatisfactory and incredibly expensive experience with power tool dentistry two and a bit years ago. These two horses really do need a bit of attention there - Buzzy is surely losing molars already. And maybe Greg can have a go at the donkeys too...(although none of them have ANY issues with their carrots no matter how thick, even though they are mostly in their late 20s, apart from Ben who is younger and his mother Nelly who is probably our oldest equine but nobody knows the age of those two adoptees).

Speaking of: Ben, Mary Lou half-hidden, Sparkle peeping out through the gap, and Don Quixote with his slimming aid. (Nelly also has one but is not in this photo - you'll see her later.)

And this is the typical procession that happens if I take Julian walking or riding in the morning and open the gate to the "common"...


It used to be that the donkeys all followed the horse, but Ben and Nelly know the drill by now!


...and this is the lumpen posture one ends up with immediately after mounting after a weekend spent plastering and hauling 250kg of plaster through the house and up a flight of stairs by hand (because the trolley only goes as far as the door and we don't have an exterior scaffold set up for this). See previous post. This is not the time to critique a person's riding position, especially while they are still warming up. But do please note -
*1.* The crazy dog and her _woo-hoo_ antics - which you will see again and again on today's photos...
*2.* Mary Lou and Sparkle in tow. (The other three donkeys had run ahead playing chasey. Buzzy decided to stay in the meadow to graze clover.)

So this is independent ride number four - and the fifth time I've ridden this horse (first ride was clambering on and off him at frequent intervals while Brett led him around the valley floor - and that was exactly four weeks ago).

This time we rode up the ridge to our western boundary, up through the forest. The donkeys all decided to continue on through the forest track that leads to the north-western edge of our conservation bushland, so we said goodbye to them at the intersection, and it was Brett, Jess, Julian and myself from then on. I've included a series of photos that look similar, but watch the dog! 



That last photo in particular - zoom in on the dog! 🤣

I was practicing steering Julian to various parts of the path where there weren't so many rocks. While I have a perfectly good pair of Renegades in the shed, sadly they don't fit him. When and if the exchange rate gets better, I may get him a set. The ridges are rocky, and I'm not sure we want to confine ourselves to valley floor riding.


We shortcut the western ridge/valley loop slightly this morning to follow a kangaroo track down the ridge. The wattles are starting to bloom and it's spectacular. This is _Acacia myrtifolia_...




I'm off the horse because I still get on and off a fair bit to normalise mounting and dismounting for him, and because this section is really rocky. He can't see all the footing on this overgrown track and I really don't want to stone bruise him by putting another 75kg on his back while he's not in boots. The bauxite rocks here are jagged and not very nice on horse hooves, especially when the hooves are soft in the rainy season. We have other kangaroo tracks I can ride him on in the sandy valley floor. This is "bush-bashing" practice - the second time he's done this and this time around he said, "Old hat!"

This is the same track we take farmstay guests to show them the vegetation changes from the heathland in the valley floor to the eucalytpus woodland and forest up the ridges - and to give them an immersive nature experience, which you can't have on vehicle tracks or fire breaks.

Speaking of - the kangaroo track intersects our central sand track, which is how we went back home.




@gottatrot, I still haven't been able to stop the helmet tilting to the right - have you had any luck with yours? I'm beginning to think it's my actual head! 🤪

Forgot to say - today I had my first faster pace on Julian. It was supposed to be a trot, but he offered a pace - old habits from harness days; he rarely paces in the paddock. This was up on the sandy first section of our western boundary track. Brett ran ahead and I cued him to transition up (as practiced umpteen times on the ground). He's got a smooth pace - you ride it sitting at slow to moderate speed, and instead of getting bumped vertically as happens at the trot, you sway sideways a little. Many people actually find that more comfortable than trotting; I'm OK with either but trotting is the better gait for rough footing. I don't expect Julian's trot will be very bumpy - he's built much like Sunsmart, who had a lovely floaty trot to ride. Like Sunsmart, he will discover that he is free to trot when ridden, so I expect he will favour that gait very soon. And of course, you can establish different cues, so you can ask for trot versus asking for pace - I do that chiefly by influencing the head position before the transition (more on the bit for trot-on, head more upwards for pacing - in accordance with the natural posture difference in the paddock).

Riding Julian is feeling really normal to me now - which is a nice contrast to the first couple of rides I had on him. We're getting comfortable with each other.

It's quite an unusual amount of "external" photography at present, instead of between-the-ears - owing to having a dog and an ostler on our rides with us presently. 😀


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Great pics. You look great on Julian!

I have a new helmet that doesn't seem to be riding at a tilt like my last two did. It feels tighter though, and starts out slightly uncomfortable but then I don't notice it.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

The wall is beautiful!!

I’m so glad you are riding Julian, and enjoying getting to know Buzzy. I too have crazy dogs along on my rides. Lately Pig (the little white dog) has been driving Queen and I especially crazy. He’s going through a phase where he refuses to listen.

He’s a very emotional dog, and his girl was gone for three weeks. First we did the marathon and trip, and then she has been at range camp. She’s finally home, but he has just been on one. To top it off, he is too short to see in the pivot, but jumps up and down like a fox to see over the grass himself. So, Queen and I get rather annoyed. Lol

His girl did very well at range camp. Apparently she is to give a speech at a national convention now. She is the first “first year” student to be given the honor, and she is very excited. She loves range management.

I know she is planning on becoming a teacher, but her love of range makes me wonder if she will chose a path instead as a rang con or a wildlife biologist.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC, Julian seems to be such a reasonable guy. I'm glad your riding adventures are progressing so nicely. I've seen a lot more videos posted on FB lately of people riding out on trails with loose horses along for the ride. I wish we didn't have to ride on the roads to get to trails (which are fairly close to roads), because I think it would be really great to be able to bring the whole herd along. I love the adventuresome spirit of your whole group out together. And it's really nice Brett is joining too (and we get the benefit of all the happy riding photos 😉).



Knave said:


> To top it off, he is too short to see in the pivot, but jumps up and down like a fox to see over the grass himself


Haha, Hugh isn't particularly short, but the fields that haven't been hayed yet are so tall he has to do that too. The grass is brushing my feet in the stirrups when I'm riding, and Hugh is completely covered in it.



Knave said:


> I know she is planning on becoming a teacher, but her love of range makes me wonder if she will chose a path instead as a rang con or a wildlife biologist.


Maybe she'll find a pathway that does both. High school ag teachers are in short supply, but if she decided to study longer maybe she'd end up a university professor.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

That would be a good plan for her @egrogan. Our school has high paid teachers. That’s different than the norm I know. A zero experience begins at 45k I believe, and they build up to quite high. So, she has planned on coming back here to teach.

The problem with being an ag teacher here is that there are two who are quite good. One she could take another position and then maybe work into that after the teacher retires, but the second is already playing that game and a first year teacher this year. So, he is currently teaching the college courses and computers I believe.

Because it is such a high paying district, you can imagine the jobs are hard to get. The most left position currently is the pre-k and kindergarten teacher. She loves littles, and has really wanted to go for that position. For a long time it was not a stepping stone place, but the long time teacher of it retired not long after my girls and it has passed around a bit. I guess not many really love teaching that particular age range.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Well, more and more research is showing that PreK and K are the absolute fundamental grades for children to learn to read, and lots of districts are (finally) starting to recognize that and working hard to find teachers in those grades that have training in the science of reading. So that might be something for her to think about when she's looking at teaching programs, if that's what she ends up doing in college. I know about a dozen districts right now that would pay big money for that! 

Ag teachers here in the Northeast are seeing really good recruitment bonuses and high salaries too. If she does decide that maybe other places might be worth checking out in the future, send her this way!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I will let her know that is an option @egrogan! She dreams of someday taking over this place, but I’m not sure there is a future here anymore. It is going to be a hard row to try and make work with the water situation.

Our school has the reading pretty well established by 1st grade. She has always loved the littles. You can find her setting up games with them when she should be participating with the teenagers. Lol. So, I understand her desire to spend her teaching career with them. She loves FFA though. It’s her whole world right now. She is a senior officer, got the award for the most dedicated greenhand, and placed several seconds at state in her cde’s. Range is her favorite cde, but she had to participate as a jr member this year which I believe she received first individual for at state. Obviously she made quite the impression at range camp last week too.

She wants to become a state officer. I would dread that, being stuck in a high school type activity for a year after school, but she loves it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My sister LOVED teaching the little ones. Me? I don't get along at all with kids until they are at least 8. Preferably teens. I majored in biology and later took some classes thinking I might get a Master's in Range Conservation...but I'd have needed to take out loans and that would have been risky given how few jobs there were. The range cons I hear about in Utah are all college educated with NO experience around livestock. Or maybe they are just responding to what they are told to do by higher ups.

In 1980, I worked for the Forest Service. Our Range Con came back from a conference all excited. "Sagebrush has a lot of nutrition. We can plant some and help the deer and the cattle." I was doing manual work for minimum wage, but I couldn't resist pointing out we already HAD 100,000+ acres of sagebrush because the oils limit how much most animals would eat. In the end, the Forest Service decided to plant a couple hundred acres...maybe just to quiet her down.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Here is where we need an eye roll button. Lol. Sagebrush is obviously not good nutrition. I think someone with experience with livestock would make a good range con, but I wonder if it would make them less desirable hires. I don’t really know how that works. You would thing it would benefit them, but rarely does it seem they hire people like that.

I wonder if people who grow up on ranches have such a distaste for the range cons they have experienced that they won’t go into careers of that sort. I believe I have heard of good range cons too though. You always hear who is good to deal with and who is bad, but I haven’t paid much attention because we are low men and don’t have to deal with such matters. Eventually we will I know, and I will wish these were matters I understood better.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I suspect ranch experience would be considered a drawback in modern range con hiring practices. One of my college roommates left the field of natural resource management 25 years ago, largely out of disgust for his co-workers. He said they (US Forest Service) had nothing but utter contempt for tourists, ranchers, loggers, hikers, etc. He (and I) had been "raised" to think of multiple use and users but he felt his co-workers believed THEY owned the forests and ANYONE entering was an intruder. THEM vs US. My rancher friend says the guy he works with seems well intentioned, but he doesn't know what he doesn't know - and maybe his higher ups don't want him to understand.

It is a bit like political discourse in America. Once sides are drawn, it turns into US vs THEM. Two people from different sides can sit over dinner and maybe find some common ground, but once an organization gets involved it becomes "Whose side are you on?" And from what I hear, the Forest Service and BLM do NOT want to hear, "But Rancher Joe says that land won't be ready to handle livestock for 6 more weeks..." or, "The water just isn't there...". Or even, "We already have 100,000 acres of uneaten sagebrush, so MAYBE THERE IS A REASON?"

"_Against stupidity, the very gods themselves contend in vain._" - Friedrich Schiller (1759–1805) He also wrote, "_It is difficult to discriminate the voice of truth from amid the clamor raised by heated partisans._"


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

On the topic of Us vs Them






One of the best comments ever written on the topic. The clip is fan made and not specifically what the song is about but not _not_, either. Very loud music and some blue air, but because the topic is like that and we've gone beyond _Imagine._

And just for contrast, because musical horses for courses...

















PS from 24/7/22: ...because I have the feeling some people misunderstood the first song in this post, I'd like to draw attention to what it says on the singer's guitar in this live excerpt from a performance of this song:






And here's a close-up of another guitar belonging to Robert Smith with other stickers...


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I think I mentioned in a recent thread I’m reading the book High Conflict. This is the distillation of the thesis








So far there are many vignettes illustrating how high conflict develops-I have yet to get to the explanation of how it resolves. Hopefully it can resolve.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Knave said:


> Here is where we need an eye roll button. Lol. Sagebrush is obviously not good nutrition. I think someone with experience with livestock would make a good range con, but I wonder if it would make them less desirable hires. I don’t really know how that works. You would thing it would benefit them, but rarely does it seem they hire people like that.
> 
> I wonder if people who grow up on ranches have such a distaste for the range cons they have experienced that they won’t go into careers of that sort. I believe I have heard of good range cons too though. You always hear who is good to deal with and who is bad, but I haven’t paid much attention because we are low men and don’t have to deal with such matters. Eventually we will I know, and I will wish these were matters I understood better.


I spent a year working with farmers to produce catchment management advice when I was a graduate. I was the scientist writing the advice. It was a collaborative effort, with other scientists _and_ with the farmers. It didn't take the farmers long to _not_ go, "OMG, here's another Agriculture Department expert thinking they know how this works." I honoured their expertise as the people stewarding the land (which most of the farmers I worked with in that catchment took very seriously), and they honoured my expertise. It didn't hurt that I wasn't from the city. The head honcho from the Department who wrote my reference afterwards wrote it was the only time he'd ever overseen a project where the farming community unanimously praised the work done and the recommendations report, and wanted to see it implemented, and be part of it.

Of course, the government completely ignored the recommendations as usual. 25 years later, the problems have gone from bad to worse with not a skerrick implemented and the taxpayer money that should have supported the farmers in implementing the recommendations going to woodchip corporations instead to buy up family farms hitherto producing food and plant them fence to fence with blu'egum monocultures (why does it not let me write that word without an apostrophe???) - which *do not* store carbon in the long term even though they get the concessions for it as well (and people like us who replant the land with actual carbon storage don't get a brass razoo of support, we do it out of our own pockets and with our own time) - just what we needed, more newsprint to tell consumers to consume consume consume and not think too hard about the natural world the limits of which we are ignoring at our own peril.

I'm first and foremost a conservationist. Was back then, never stopped. It didn't pit me against the majority of farmers, not back then anyway. It does pit me against corporates and globalisation and government business as usual, against exploitation and laziness and arrogance and ignorance, against people who think what we're doing to this planet and how we run economics is in any way remotely OK. And against human exceptionalism, and the idea that human population (which is already _way beyond_ long-term sustainable) and resource consumption per capita can perpetually go up and up like we live in magic la-la-land (and the joke is, those things don't even make for human happiness), and that there's anything about the "growth economics" dogma that isn't completely obscene, and grasping, and blind.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Knave said:


> I will let her know that is an option @egrogan! She dreams of someday taking over this place, but I’m not sure there is a future here anymore. It is going to be a hard row to try and make work with the water situation.
> 
> Our school has the reading pretty well established by 1st grade. She has always loved the littles. You can find her setting up games with them when she should be participating with the teenagers. Lol. So, I understand her desire to spend her teaching career with them. She loves FFA though. It’s her whole world right now. She is a senior officer, got the award for the most dedicated greenhand, and placed several seconds at state in her cde’s. Range is her favorite cde, but she had to participate as a jr member this year which I believe she received first individual for at state. Obviously she made quite the impression at range camp last week too.
> 
> She wants to become a state officer. I would dread that, being stuck in a high school type activity for a year after school, but she loves it.


This is so fabulous. 😍 I always said to teenagers, go where your passion is. If there's money in that as well, great. Also of course she doesn't have to be just one thing all her life. I worked as a research scientist, and as an educator at tertiary level, and as an educator at secondary level. Midlife I became a smallholder and writer and conservationist of 50 hectares of incredibly biodiverse sclerophyll - if the government policies allow for the continued white-anting of the small remaining areas of healthy native ecosystem, then citizens have to buy it up and take care of it themselves, and defend it with their own bodies if necessary. Each time I've gone with opportunities and circumstances and what has felt right in my heart and also been logical in my head. My life has been meaningful in many different ways and continues to be meaningful, in a terribly difficult world which is essentially a Titanic. There are so many important things that need attention - there's plenty to apply yourself to and to live a meaningful, positively contributing life with.

Others might disagree with me, but I found grass roots type work, and grass roots philosophies for that matter, to be far more hopeful and capable of making a difference. Hands-on conservation, hands-on education, citizen political change, actually being there with skin in the game. It works in better with my own personal limits too - I would get incredibly frustrated working in policy development nowadays, but then I'm grateful for the handful of good people who do get involved in that and don't make a hash of it, and whose stomachs are obviously stronger than mine. But you can make a difference anywhere as a person of conscience and intelligence and passion.

Lots of love to your girls. ❤


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

egrogan said:


> I think I mentioned in a recent thread I’m reading the book High Conflict. This is the distillation of the thesis
> View attachment 1131319
> 
> So far there are many vignettes illustrating how high conflict develops-I have yet to get to the explanation of how it resolves. Hopefully it can resolve.


This is excellent and thanks for sharing, @egrogan.

One immediate question for me is about this: _"The conflict feels like an existential threat, even if it isn't."_

This statement is true, but the problem is - a lot of the political differences these days are about _actual_ existential threats, that some people try to do something about and other people deny or minimise, like the environmental crisis, and more specifically, species extinctions, anthropogenic pollution, anthropogenic climate change, destruction of native ecosystems, human overpopulation, excessive resource consumption. And also on the social side of things, racism, misogyny and homophobia, and the limiting of access to contraception and also to termination of unplanned pregnancies (including but not limited to pregnancies from sexual assault and incest and of _children_), for instance, _do_ create _actual existential crises_ for the human beings at the receiving end of these, and have resulted in terrible and avoidable misery for many, many people for a long, long time.

And it's those existential things that are often treated as un-existential or imaginary by people who do not have much of an understanding of these matters beyond their own preconceived ideas and other people's second-hand opining. And this is a huge problem. And psychologically, that is existential at the same level as a child growing up molested by a relative (I have several such friends) whose parents never believed them when they finally told. But if anything even more so, because it's easier as an individual to swallow injustice for yourself than it is to swallow injustice on behalf of people you love, or entire species that are being wiped out forever, if you care about that. Because you'd always prefer to suffer yourself than to see that - unless you're blind or a sociopath.

Other matters, of course, are blown out of proportion, like a child breaking their arm falling off a swing resulting in a lawsuit of a council that results in the removal of the playground for the entire neighbourhood's children. The parent thinks it's existential because they think their child should never get hurt, at least when there's someone to conveniently blame - while other parents might think that skinned knees and even the odd broken arm just go with the territory of childhood and learning to control your own body, and participating in activities that on the whole are far more beneficial than they are harmful, and that while we can and should reduce injury risk it's not realistic to expect no injuries to ever occur.

Or like the local West Australian billionaire who tried to sue us taxpayers essentially for billions of dollars, for our state's rightful refusal to grant him the mining license he wanted. He was trying to take the money that he'd already counted as his "rightful" profits before actually "earning" them, assuming he would just get what he wanted, off us everyday citizens instead when the state said no to him on our behalf (because the resources belong to the people, not to a mining billionaire). But man was it existential to Mr Palmer, listening to his stuck-pig screaming about it. It disgusted me deeply, that one person can think themselves so terribly important and count millions of other citizens as lesser-than, and come for us when he didn't get what he wanted. Existential all right, except the shoe was on the other foot, and the guy who thought it was so terribly existential was actually going to sponge off everyday people who make just average incomes, because his own fat purse wasn't full enough yet apparently, and apparently that was really existential to _him_...who will never have to suffer from hunger or from being unable to pay his basic bills, and who has so many more privileges that ordinary people.

If the book gives any ideas how to solve any of this - besides maybe psychotherapy for people like Mr Palmer, and a proper education in critical thinking and complex systems for every child, and anti-corruption measures for governments and corporations, and better facilitation of serious and civilised discussions amongst adults with different viewpoints, and other things like that - or if any of you have any ideas - please share.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

SueC said:


> This statement is true, but the problem is - a lot of the political differences these days are about _actual_ existential threats, that some people try to do something about and other people deny or minimise, like the environmental crisis, and more specifically, species extinctions, anthropogenic pollution, anthropogenic climate change, destruction of native ecosystems, human overpopulation, excessive resource consumption. And also on the social side of things, racism, misogyny and homophobia, and the limiting of access to contraception and also to termination of unplanned pregnancies (including but not limited to pregnancies from sexual assault and incest and of _children_), for instance, _do_ create _actual existential crises_ for the human beings at the receiving end of these, and have resulted in terrible and avoidable misery for many, many people for a long, long time.


@SueC, I had the same reaction when reading that sentence. In the book, examples range from the somewhat benign local government council fight over whether or not to erect a new bus station to the more serious, but perhaps not quite _existential _conflict over which rival gang is allowed to recreate in particular parts of the city. So in that sense, I can see the author's point, that often when people slip into us vs. them thinking, even the mundane question of a bus stop feels like an all out war. And with that as the building block of how we interact with people we disagree with, we're doomed when it comes to addressing truly existential conflict. I don't know yet if the author will address that.

I'll be very honest, I've had to put the book down for a few days given current events in the US, as the conflicts featured in the book, and their resolutions, feel almost quaint given current events that _do_ feel existential. We are now living in a country where half of women retain access to a fundamental right, and half do not. It's unfair to expect this book and author to be able to provide a pathway forward for this situation, but I also need some space from it before re-engaging.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

egrogan said:


> @SueC, I had the same reaction when reading that sentence. In the book, examples range from the somewhat benign local government council fight over whether or not to erect a new bus station to the more serious, but perhaps not quite _existential _conflict over which rival gang is allowed to recreate in particular parts of the city. So in that sense, I can see the author's point, that often when people slip into us vs. them thinking, even the mundane question of a bus stop feels like an all out war. And with that as the building block of how we interact with people we disagree with, we're doomed when it comes to addressing truly existential conflict. I don't know yet if the author will address that.
> 
> I'll be very honest, I've had to put the book down for a few days given current events in the US, as the conflicts featured in the book, and their resolutions, feel almost quaint given current events that _do_ feel existential. We are now living in a country where half of women retain access to a fundamental right, and half do not. It's unfair to expect this book and author to be able to provide a pathway forward for this situation, but I also need some space from it before re-engaging.


I'm sorry about that situation, @egrogan. For us in most other Western countries, it feels like a parallel-universe Taliban has invaded the high courts of a superpower. What happened in Afghanistan was and is terrible. But to see it in the West in an allegedly civilised society where people allegedly have self-determination and people shout so loudly about freedom (while perhaps having some unusual definitions of that term) is just completely boggling. To have people up in arms about something as simple as wearing masks in a pandemic trying to tell women and girls what they can and can't do with their bodies is just - I don't even have a word to describe it. I don't know how you live where you live, except of course that we're most of us where we are on the planet by accident of birth.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

SueC said:


> I don't know how you live where you live


It is extraordinarily difficult to emigrate as an American, unless you are bringing a pot of gold to "invest" in another country.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

egrogan said:


> It is extraordinarily difficult to emigrate as an American, unless you are bringing a pot of gold to "invest" in another country.


I wish you and everyone else with XX chromosomes in the US, especially under the age of 50 or so, all the very best. You all have my empathy. I would find that so terribly stressful. I'm half the world away and I'm shocked.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I think an issue is when the existential threat becomes us vs them because of emotions. As the book seems to say, I don't think simplifying things into "we're the good guys, they're the bad guys" is ever helpful, because it is thinking you can solve a problem by deciding the problem is actually a person(s) rather than a process. I'm not sure problems are ever solved that way. 

Taking out a leader seems to work in fantasy movies where the orcs are zombies governed by a powerful wizard. But social issues involve large amounts of diverse people, not zombies. Taking out a leader doesn't help. I do think the idea that it is war removes a lot of possible logical solutions out of the picture. It also changes things into win or lose rather than realizing complex problems usually require compromise.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Taking out Hitler eventually became necessary, @gottatrot - of course he actually killed himself in the end before he could be brought to justice. I also think if Putin and his generals were struck magically by lightning right now, it would simplify the situation with the Ukraine war significantly. And I say that as a person who started out as a pacifist, and who doesn't say that about everyone who it's ever been said about.

I also think leaders wouldn't need to be taken out if they were of better quality, in many situations. In a healthy democracy, a substandard leader can be taken out by the electorate in the next cycle, and hopefully replaced by something better (which has been a real problem for some countries of late though, particularly countries with political duopolies).

I agree that many fictional scenarios are easier to solve neatly than real-world ones, and that there is a lot of grey in each of us.

With compromise, while it's frequently a good thing, with some things it's not - like the idea that Ukraine give up some of its sovereign territory so that Putin can save his sociopathic face.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Not to argue for the sake of it, but aren't there and weren't there system problems allowing for these situations like Putin? What is there to prevent someone even worse from stepping up if you take out the leader?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

But that could also have been said about Hitler...

The system problems though allow unsuitable people to go into leadership positions.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

When I took breakfast out to the crew this morning, this was the topic of discussion. It actually revolved around Bin Laden (I’m sorry if I spelled that wrong). My uncle, who is much like @bsms in his manner of research and thinking, had been reading a book about everything leading up to the problems there.

From what I understood of my uncle’s explanation, they had two opportunities to take him out that they chose to not take. He said behind him came ISIS, and without him they were then able to take over.

I don’t really understand what he was saying, as I am not one who studies the world happenings, but I did understand the general idea, in that there is more at play when you take out a bad guy. There is another, possibly worse, thing coming after.

I think that there will always be people like that, governments like that, and power to be sought. It becomes, to me, about learning to live in what you find yourself in I guess. I think people are happy all over the world, and atrocities happen all over the world too. Unless one was to work their way into a position of power, and become one of the game players, or fight in the military, one is stuck learning to live in their own surroundings.

Like my daughter taking responsibility for her health, we take responsibility for how we live no matter the condition. We do what we can in our world. It is my job to raise cows and hay, and the issues that arise I must try and live with or work with. Yes, it is also my job to fight for the things here, but I must accept responsibility for whatever happens. I must learn to work around things I do not like and with problems. This is where my fight is.

So, it may seem small in comparison to the world powers, but it is my part of that. Feeding people and fighting battles about the land here, is a part of the grande scheme. All of us have a piece where we are responsible, and none of us have much power outside of what we are responsible for.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*HOOF TRIMMING AND OTHER TASKS*

After a completely horizontal recuperation day with a good novel yesterday, following four days flat out since the last recreation day and that huge plastering job all weekend, I'm much revived today. 🌞

Even Jess was horizontal.

I started the day with getting Brett to drop me at 7am (he has the early shift Wednesdays) at our northeast gate to walk around our forest and heathland tracks for half an hour, with stretches etc - and @egrogan, I was listening to your recount of the posture exercises you were getting children to do on horseback, and doing them just walking - it's one of those patterns that's easy to adopt and it straightens things out nicely.

It was a good way to start the day. There was mist over the paddocks as we set off this morning, and it's always a good feeling to be in the bushland just after dawn.

Morning walking

Australian Ravens

After that I started doing one of the dozens of little jobs that need to be done to transform our now completely plastered attic into a living space. Namely - to clean the window in the south gable, which has never been cleaned before - since this was just a storage space before now. I have never seen a dirtier window in my life, although I am sure they exist...










The dirt actually had a protective function when we were plastering - I always folded up the sodden, lime-plaster-spattered drop cloths at the end of a plastering session and threw them straight out of the window onto the lawn below, so as not to have to carry them through the house.

I'd worried that the mould on the surface had eaten into the low-e film (that reduces transfer of long-wave radiation through the window glass - i.e. helps keep heat in or out while not affecting light transfer) - but thankfully, the glass came up clear. Although you can see the dirt in the early-morning photo above, the opacity is condensation from the wall drying out - which makes the early morning a great time to clean a window in the attic at the moment. The water in the bucket was _black_ after the first pass, and the next one, which included a wipe-down of the outside with all its cobwebs, went deep grey. I'm sure there was a good culture of mould spores in these buckets... 🤢

The woodwork in particular took a while to clean up, but the 7-year-old painting tape that I'd never removed actually came off remarkably easily. There's another pass to go before I will consider the gable window cleaning done, but I felt like trimming hooves after morning tea. Julian was due. Chasseur AKA Mr Buzzy had his trim just over a week ago. I have to say, it's so much easier to fit trims for two horses into my timetable than trims for four, and as the two remaining horses have five donkeys to keep them company - two of which follow them around all the time because Nelly is besotted with Julian - I think they have a sufficient herd experience still.

Greg trims Julian for me in midsummer most years, and has always told me he has _excellent_ hooves - quite big and well-cushioned and a good shape. He does quite well barefoot on our gravel driveway compared to other horses. He used to be a bit iffy to trim - got whacked a few too many times I think, which is what happens when people have excessive numbers of horses and do all their own hoof trimming. So he'd take his hoof off you and then scoot around anticipating yelling and slapping. Anyway, I've taken my time with him, let him have lots of rests and ear scratches, and generally made hoof trimming into a bit of a social chit-chat with him, and combined with his riding training, he's now beautifully settled through trimming - when to begin with he hardly wanted to give me his right hind foot, four years ago. I actually enjoyed trimming him this morning, apart from the physical bending and twisting I have to do as a tall person to support the hooves of anything but a Clydesdale.

Arty shot of Julian and his hooves...

It's lovely how riding the horse is really bringing his camaraderie with me to a different level. Like Sunsmart, Julian (same sire) started out very standoffish and aloof, and "don't-touch-me-I'll-eat-your-arms" (as demonstrated below, from a photo taken by a guest)...

Grrr!

Grrr again!

- but this is beginning to change dramatically.

Charmed by guest

Maybe this monkey is OK

I'm enjoying this horse. He's 21 so I think I might have at least three years of riding him, barring accidents or illness, and if he lives longer than Sunsmart or their sire, then perhaps six years.

All right, it's time to get in the garden for a long-overdue work session out there - after I put the apple pockets in the oven. The wholemeal brioche is ready to roll and fill, and we still have cooking apples for that purpose.


And while we have baking photos - the sourdough loaves are looking really nice these days. I use a wheat/rye mix.


I'll get back to our discussing-difficult-things again soon - I appreciate everyone's input. 🌻


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Knave said:


> When I took breakfast out to the crew this morning, this was the topic of discussion. It actually revolved around Bin Laden (I’m sorry if I spelled that wrong). My uncle, who is much like @bsms in his manner of research and thinking, had been reading a book about everything leading up to the problems there.
> 
> From what I understood of my uncle’s explanation, they had two opportunities to take him out that they chose to not take. He said behind him came ISIS, and without him they were then able to take over.
> 
> I don’t really understand what he was saying, as I am not one who studies the world happenings, but I did understand the general idea, in that there is more at play when you take out a bad guy. There is another, possibly worse, thing coming after.


Yeah, this was a problem in significant part because dealing with radicalisation of civilians who were upset for a number of good reasons, as well as for ludicrous reasons to do with religious fundamentalism (which by the way I put in the same boat no matter which country or which faith - religious fundamentalism is religious fundamentalism and seeks to impose itself even on the personal lives of people in the society who don't subscribe to it, and that is one thing I too will always strongly object to, no matter whether they're fundamentalist Muslims or fundamentalist Hindus or fundamentalist Christians or any other kind of fundamentalist religion - I live in a secular democracy with multiculturalism, and where freedom of religion means nobody will come after you for belonging to a particular religion, but you also don't get to impose the associated world view of your religion on other people who are themselves free to see the world differently and live according to the dictates of their own consciences - and this means nobody dictating to anyone else about what sexuality between consenting adults is acceptable, or giving lesser rights to women, people of colour, LGBTIQ etc, or getting to say if individuals carry on with an unplanned pregnancy or not, or whether they are on contraception or not, etc).

So ISIS in many ways was a situation more similar to the PLO or IRA or any other place where civilians had grievances against foreign people who'd come in and taken their land, oppressed their people, interfered with their internal politics, etc etc, than it is similar to what happened in Germany or what Russians are currently doing. I grew up during the time of the "Irish Troubles" when the IRA were bombing people on a regular basis. I had no sympathy for their acts of violence, but I had every sympathy for the fact that their land was taken off them by the British and that this was unjustifiable. The problem was that their local Irish people were forced to live under the invaders' governance and oppression and all sorts of terrible things had historically happened in Ireland - genocides, including of babies whose heads were smashed against walls by soldiers, and the stealing of all the rural Irish people's land by the English aristocracy to whom it was "granted" and so the people became tenants on what had previously been their own land and had to pay rent to grasping landlords and were dirt poor as a result, with starvation and disease common. On top of that they were forbidden by the invaders to speak their own language or practice their own religion - and similar things happened in other places colonised by Europeans all over the world.

So young men grow up against a historical backdrop like this, and they see family members killed and know the story way back, and being young men, want to do something and are easily radicalised. I've never personally seen much difference between violence by invading armies or violence against civilians by terrorists, or indeed violence by domestic terrorists who abuse their own families and/or engage in mass shootings of other citizens. I think it's all revolting and unconscionable. Armies can act as state-sanctioned terrorists, as is the case with the Russians in Ukraine at the moment. I do, however, think people should be able to defend themselves - so I don't think, for instance, that the Ukrainians should be rolling over and letting Russia annex them, just as I thought it was fair enough that the Irish defended themselves where they could. Kill citizens, no - kill other armed people who are trying to oppress you, perhaps, but it's complicated and I'm not going to be able to do it justice here in a short post.

So Hitler was using propaganda to brainwash his own populace, as Putin is doing with Russians now, and was eliminating his political competition, as Putin has been doing for many years. Hitler eventually decided he wanted to annex other countries, as Putin is deciding at the moment, and both cases are about the employment of official armies, of whom a significant proportion weren't there by choice but by conscription, and weren't told the truth about why they were going to war. With ISIS and the IRA and PLO, it's more voluntary and deliberate a choice by the actual people who end up with the guns. Of course there is propaganda too, but not like, "Oh, you're doing military exercises in Belarus!" and then you're actually finding yourself fighting in Ukraine with mostly just your upper echelons having known what was going to happen.

By the time Hitler was taken on, once he was gone, there was nothing worse on his heels in part because the citizens were beginning to wake up. In Russia, there is a significant minority who isn't buying Putin's propaganda - a large proportion of Russia's young professionals. Some high-profile people have defected from the country because they disagree with Putin's war, including some of the top bankers and the head Jewish rabbi. Some of Putin's own oligarchs are no longer happy because their lives have been made difficult as a result of his actions, via international asset freezes etc. And everyone to do with the Russian autocracy is basically land-locked out of most other Western countries now - so no more holidays in Venice or New York or other attractive Western tourist destinations they went to routinely before. So there is a fair bit of dissent that's been brewing - and also amongst the families of soldiers who were killed in this war, who are beginning to understand that the official story from authorities is not the same as the reality - sadly only after losing their family members, in many cases.

It's easier to convince a population that it's in their interest not to invade other countries, than to convince them that it's in their interest to let themselves be invaded. In Germany the miraculous thing happened and post-WW2, they morphed into a relatively benign and educated secular democracy. It would be great if the same would happen in Russia - many of their young people want it. Of course, no guarantees, but I think it's a better chance than for that to happen in Afghanistan. For what it's worth - I'm just an avid reader who picks up their ears, plus I've talked to Germans with historical experience of Nazism (in my own family), Irish, various people whose families were dispossessed in Middle Eastern countries etc.



Knave said:


> I think that there will always be people like that, governments like that, and power to be sought. It becomes, to me, about learning to live in what you find yourself in I guess. I think people are happy all over the world, and atrocities happen all over the world too. Unless one was to work their way into a position of power, and become one of the game players, or fight in the military, one is stuck learning to live in their own surroundings.


To a large degree you can only play the cards you are dealt, but as I've gotten older I've also understood that I can and should make a difference by participating thoughtfully in my country's democracy, and by being a member of a grass-roots, non-party-aligned, citizen political movement that gives us a bit of leverage against the disproportionate power of corporates including big media, and corrupt politicians, and make things a bit easier for actually decent people who want to represent their electorates. It's an awareness-raising movement and it's been very helpful in getting real change for the better in our last election (a record number of independent and minor-party grass-roots representatives elected, which helps break up the Labor/Liberal duopoly).

I expect to be able to hold my government to account and will scream blue murder at attempted obfuscation. I expect my government to represent the interests of its actual citizens, not to feather its own nest and play boys' club. Our government is supposed to be the servant of its people, and to do its job well. If we drop our expectations, governments will lower their standards accordingly. So, we have to keep expectations high and keep the elected representatives accountable. That is the job of the citizens, and doesn't happen when citizens disengage from politics and let politicians get away with playing dirty games.



Knave said:


> Like my daughter taking responsibility for her health, we take responsibility for how we live no matter the condition. We do what we can in our world. It is my job to raise cows and hay, and the issues that arise I must try and live with or work with. Yes, it is also my job to fight for the things here, but I must accept responsibility for whatever happens. I must learn to work around things I do not like and with problems. This is where my fight is.
> 
> So, it may seem small in comparison to the world powers, but it is my part of that. Feeding people and fighting battles about the land here, is a part of the grande scheme. All of us have a piece where we are responsible, and none of us have much power outside of what we are responsible for.


And your individual local activities you're describing are important and noble. It's just that you may also have more power than you realise in other ways, to influence things in the institutions that are supposed to be representing your interests.  For example, just by changing your expectations of federal government, instead of writing it off as a lost cause (which I'm not saying you do, but for many years I did that, and then I realised it only plays into the hands of people who absolutely should not be in power over others).

It's kind of like animals that become used to institutionalisation - you know, the barn chickens who, when you open a door to the outside world, blink at the sunlight and cower because they have forgotten how to be birds. It's this learned helplessness, which we actually don't have to subscribe to if we think about it - you know, "This is bigger than me and I can do nothing/next-to-nothing." Nothing more powerful than realising and properly and responsibly inhabiting your own agency, and joining hands with others who are doing the same.

Of course, it assumes basic decency and also knowing where we end and others begin - otherwise it just becomes like Orwell's _Animal Farm_. But that's another story!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*WEEKEND MORNING RIDE*

Today is mostly a work day for Brett and me - tons to do around house and farm - but we did get a quick morning ride in, so here's a telegram report. I've still not had a chance to set up a playground, so we're still just riding trails and doing steering, halting, direction-change, about-turns etc, and a careful bit of transition-up from walk to the next gear, which I'm sitting very quietly so I don't upset him at this early stage. This is Julian's fifth ride.

Heading out:


You can see half the donkey entourage again, and Chasseur AKA Buzzy opting to graze. In these photos I'm encouraging the horse to stretch forward - don't ask me how, I use seat and body cues and they just work by association when you apply them consistently.

We rode the other way around today - so here we are heading south on the Swamp Track (and later on we did a transition-up and I rode him pacing/trotting for a little while, just quietly for now).



Julian is an athletic sort of chappy and he's very good at flexing in every which direction with whatever body part - and adapting that to riding. He's more like my Arabian mare in this respect, which is why I want to set up a playground and do some gymkhana exercises to set up better steering and communication. You can see he's readily and correctly flexing left in the second photo there - and back again immediately, with the merest hint of the reins and mostly via subtle cues from my seat and weight (on ride five, I'm really impressed).

I took a riding crop today just for extra cueing. Usually I do that from Ride 1 with ex-harness re-training (and after a few weeks, don't use it when not teaching anything new), but Julian is a bit nervous about weird things suddenly happening, so I left it in the shed until he was "old hat" with the idea of my riding him.

We were talking on various other journals about improving our riding and symmetry, and @Knave made a wonderful clip to help us be aware of our hips and sidedness, and of an exercise to influence lateral and circle work with horses by being aware of how we position our seat bones/hips/weight. I want to start adapting that when I get around to setting up a playground, but meanwhile I'm keeping it in mind on the trail. In the flex-left photo above you can see my weight is more on the inner seatbone - and that's standard for me - what I need to improve is my symmetry when riding straight.

However: I have noticed that I'm often critiquing my own riding position in still photographs with, "How come you're not straight here etc etc" (and my posture generally needs improvement through my shoulders), but then when I watch actual films of me riding, which I haven't had many of to date, it gives me a much better impression of my riding because I can see that many of the "off-kilter" things are just momentary reactions to what I'm doing with the horse and overall it looks quite smooth and fluid and has a lot of "give" - which is what I aim for, but the stills just don't seem to show it.

While I do want to get better posture through my back, I think that's mainly an off-horse endeavour (more Pilates) - it would be really easy to make the mistake of trying to force it more straight and upright but then my riding would suffer, because you can't be fluid when you're sitting in a forced position. On the horse, I can remind myself to gently stretch upright while maintaining fluidity, and I can do some of the posture exercises with my arms that @egrogan described recently.

Anyway, some films from this morning. The first one is funny - at the end!  In this clip I was starting for the first time to move my arms around in unusual ways to get Julian to the point where I can do those posture-influencing exercises with my arms without spooking my horse (he is that kind of horse).






The second film is blurry at the start but there's a joke at the end when we come into focus...






In the third, I'm pretending I am going to run over Brett but of course we don't...






And in the fourth, I'm demonstrating a halt that is cued mainly from the seat, like we were discussing elsewhere recently. The reins come into it only minimally.






I tried to deconstruct what I do for you guys by paying attention to it - it's just autopilot communication for me after over four decades on various non-plodding horses where you have to ride instead of use them like a travelling sofa. So when I paid attention to it - to ask for the halt, I make my seat "resist" the motion rather than encourage it, which means a not-extreme squeeze through the knees to be able to provide that resistance - while very subtly half-halting with the reins, and the horse immediately stops. He's not sure after that one whether I want a rein-back or a held halt, so there's a bit of movement - but I think this is excellent stuff, five rides in and never ever in any kind of enclosed area.

The seat basically resists motion to slow down, goes with the movement to keep it steady, pushes more when I want an up-transition or a faster walk (as you would on a swing) - and then there's increasing/decreasing stride length, which is done via requisite gentle pushing or resisting with the seat, half-halts, neck-stretching-forward for the stride length increase, and a change in the tempo I'm suggesting from the seat for quicker versus slower steps (like the timing in music that you are travelling to - think walking songs, versus energetic songs for more-steps-per-minute). All this goes way back to starting in a dressage-leaning riding school in Europe, before the rather extreme and artificial forms of competitive dressage became fashionable (we were more classically based, more like how Spanish people ride) - and then training my Arabian mare in all of that stuff, via Tom Roberts' _The Young Horse_ / _The Rider_ books, which talk about exactly this kind of thing.

The horses pick all this up really quickly. I think it's just that they learn which bits they do go with which bits I do, and it's actually a process that's partly subconscious. You just adapt to each other.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I agree that often a still photo will catch you looking off kilter when really what you were doing was following the horse appropriately. Looks like another good ride!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t think I would ever worry about sidedness unless one was struggling with a specific maneuver or soring (either I am spelling it wrong or that isn’t a word, but it is a word! It is!) him up. I say this because I agree with you in fluidity. When I try and have good posture, or even when I try and correct my sidedness in exercises, it does make me stiff and less… I don’t know how to put it, but I’m sure you know exactly what I mean.

I occasionally look at photos of myself and think the same thing. I know I don’t actively lean just riding around though, and it is just a moment of fluidity for lack of a better word.

Julian is looking wonderfully!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

It's kind of ironic that I have more photos and film of saddle educating Julian after I was umming and aaahing about whether I even wanted to keep riding, than I have of any of the others. A handful of photos of my mare and no film because that was before the days everyone had a film camera, hardly any of working with various Standardbreds before Sunsmart, whom I adopted the year after I got married, and Brett took so many wonderful photos of him and me, and of him and my Arabian mare and Romeo and the others, without even being asked to. 🖤

And he's really going to town with this one. When I did early trails with Sunsmart it was before we had this farm and I rode on public trails in Albany, but that was already at a stage when we were doing majority trotting and a lot of canter and gallop, so not something for a pedestrian! I did his very early training at his previous home, where nobody is that interested in taking photographs of people riding. I worked with him around the harness training tracks which he was already familiar with so we established all the gaits under saddle there very rapidly (easy on an oval track) before I took him down to Albany. Brett at that time was visiting his family.

It again brings home to me how wonderful life is now compared to when I was growing up. There's a million ways Brett lets me know I am loved and I matter, and actions speak so much louder than words. But I guess when I was born I did not turn out like my parents' ideas of what they wanted, while Brett fell in love with me _because_ of who I am and what I am like. I suppose it's like the old adage that if you breed your own horses you never know exactly what you are going to get and the apple may fall far from the tree, as this one did. 🍎

Thank you Brett. 🖤









_Torndirrup Peninsula, 2008


Mt Talyuberlup, 2018_


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I forgot to say, yesterday was a day when I hopped off Julian and took his gear off when we got back to the meadow, where his friends were grazing. Thanked him and asked, "Want to go graze or come with me for a bucket feed?"

He followed me all the way around the house and across the driveway into the utility area where I was taking his saddle, bridle and halter. I got him some pony cubes and stood rubbing his ears and forehead as he ate, and he did NOT make Jaws faces at me (like Sunsmart, he generally prefers to eat undisturbed). When he was done he hobnobbed with me a bit and then I walked towards the meadow with him just walking next to me. We took a very civilised leave of each other and I wished him a good day out grazing and having adventures on the forest tracks (they all do both daily). As he walked towards his herd my heart did a little leap because he spent 17 years in a solo paddock before I adopted him and he is now as free as it is possible for a domesticated horse to be. 🖤


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FAIRY HOUSES AT DENMARK RIVER*

We took Sunday off and went to Denmark, to eat bakery items and have a little off-site recreation. It was a fantastically crisp sunny winter's day today, which started with a fairly hard frost - so we waited for things to warm up a bit before leaving, and had breakfast at home. The horses were both in rugs overnight - keeping warm keeps the peripheral circulation more open and therefore is better for any arthritis, aches or pains for horses in an older age bracket.

We had a happy drive through sunlit fields to Denmark - with long, long shadows because we've just had the shortest day of the year here. After that we ate our bakery items on a bench in the sun on the main pedestrian strip of Denmark's little CBD. It's hard to take a photo of it, but here is a stitched-together trick shot of that street, as used by the Shire of Denmark - remember the street is actually straight, it doesn't go around a 90-degree bend!










Next, we took the dog for a leisurely walk around Denmark River. It's Karri Forest and slow-flowing water and pelicans - and fairy houses, which children have put up around the whole loop. There were more of them today than last time - it seems there have been some additions during the current school holidays. These are so lovely and relatively simple we took photos to share in case anyone wants a fun project.




That chimney looks so real! There's a main state primary school in town, as well as a Steiner school and various Environmental schools with a nature focus - and lots of arty adults as well. We always enjoy spending time in Denmark.

Here's another new fairy house:

And one of Brett on the western bank of the Denmark River:

And some of Jess and me on the bridge, with a coat I love and actually we had no photos of! I bought it over a year ago at The Sacred Tree near the bakery - which is also where various of my pants are from - including the very colourful pair I'm wearing. Pants and coat are all cotton, totally breathable, and fair trade. I actually bought a bright purple pair from that pants range last time we were in Denmark - they're a little large for me but were just such a fabulous colour. Once I've modified them on the sewing machine, I really look forward to wearing them. I can't tell you how comfortable these things are. No synthetics and so well made.



This pedestrian bridge is one that Sunsmart once crossed, on a group trail ride in 2009, when I was agisting him in Albany. I remember how hollow the sound was when all of us took our horses over this structure high over the water. It was the first time he'd ever crossed a bridge like this. He had been fine with it but I had him go tail-end-Charlie because I didn't want him jammed up with horses in front and behind - you don't need to add claustrophobia on top of everything else, when doing something like this for the first time. Also you don't know how other people's horses are going to react, so I wasn't going to go single-file, head-to-tail in a big caterpillar with a group of horses who mostly didn't know each other. The sides of the bridge are a visual barrier, but no obstacle in case a horse really gets upset.

I have a good imagination for things that can possibly go wrong with horses, which has stood me in good stead over the years. Most accidents happen because people don't think through a situation beforehand. It's so easy, when you do give things thought, to come up with safer ways of approaching new things - but you do have to think first, not just monkey-see, monkey-do.

That day, my horse got over the bridge unhurried and with no stress, and he was calm about it. I remember the picnic we had on the lawn on the western bank, sitting on the picnic table holding the reins of our horses. (And speaking of reins - I've just noticed I'm unconsciously holding the dog lead like a rein in that last photo...😄)

More new fairy houses from the eastern bank of the Denmark River:




We then went for a scenic drive around the hinterland looking for an unscheduled walk track. We didn't find one we liked but the scenery was beautiful - rolling green hills, cattle, sheep, tall forest, quaint buildings. And also this stock loading ramp, made from local materials - Karri logs and branches, and local rock.


The rest of the yard is probably from commercial pine. We're planning to build a ramp ourselves and then get some metal panels that can be taken down and stored in a shed when not needed - like the portable yard our neighbour lent us for our cattle last year, when they had horn issues. We have one year to build that loading ramp - because by then our oldest cattle will be nearing sale point! So that and the fencing upgrade are the next big jobs after the attic completion.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

So pleased that Julian has worked out so well and you have such a great bond with him! It was something I really wanted for you.

The photos are marvelous. You don't know how happy I am that you are back!!!!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I love the fairy houses! I also don’t understand the trick shot, but that is the magic of it.

I have only ridden over big bridges once. I went to Oregon, to some mountain range I do not know the name of anymore. I went with my grandfather and my uncle, and we had a week long pack trip. No hunting, no objective, just camping and seeing the sights.

My mare and I were out of our element. We had never seen such steep mountains, and we both were pretty sure we were going to die, making us both very dangerous. The first bridge we came to was little, and Runt panicked and jumped off of it. When she did I lost my pack horse, and we went from flying to a sudden hard stop. Buried in the grass where she jumped was a big heavy tree stump, which she rammed her chest into at full bore.

I think it was a life saver though, for when we came to real bridges she danced and worried and hated them, but she didn’t jump off of them. I think she had understood a good punishment may be in wait for jumping off bridges.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

knightrider said:


> So pleased that Julian has worked out so well and you have such a great bond with him! It was something I really wanted for you.


Thank you for those well wishes. I imagine you thought it would help move me past losing Sunsmart and to an extent that is true, I guess to the extent that I am enjoying riding again. I'd have liked him and enjoyed him whether I rode him or not though, and every activity I choose is another I can't fit in, so my music practice continues to not happen, for example, for energy reasons. That's the problem with having so many things I would ideally like to do. I honestly don't know how anyone gets bored.

I should get Brett to film me with Mr Moo, an amazingly interactive steer we have. I can call him and he'll come running for a scratch and hobnob, and he's totally charming. In under 18 months I will be selling him so people will be fed. I at least wish humans honoured that kind of sacrifice on behalf of those creatures by being modest with their own desires for children and not interfering with the rights of others to plan their family sizes for fewer children, so that our population would stabilise and we could look after who we already have, and so we wouldn't continue to drive the planet's ecosystems to the brink which will before too long sink the ship for everyone, whether they take it seriously or not. But I can say it, and Attenborough can say it, and Tim Flannery can say it, and thousands of ecologists can say it, and we may as well be talking to walls on the whole. In many ways _Idiocracy_ was a documentary, and people will put their heads in the sand, and most of those who don't do that seem to think that tinkering around the edges will magically atomise the iceberg. With exceptions like Greta Thunberg, whose generation will face so much hardship that could have been prevented.

But human beings have a tragic tendency for short-term thinking, and for cognitive bias, and for not realising what a tiny blip even an 80-year life span is for understanding what millions of years look like. This is my journal, and as long as I keep one I will express what I think and feel and the things that concern me the most, which make horse riding look trivial - and horse riding _is_ trivial, compared to the responsibilities we as a species are making a hash of, and the effects that has on the other species on this blue planet, not to mention that we can't even properly take care of our own species, and never have, historically. Floods of homeless and refugees in worsening crises that many turn a blind eye to and built walls to exclude while crying, "Let's breed our own, forcibly if we must - _life_ is so _precious_." Pretty narrow view of what life is, if you're asking me as a biologist, or as a humanitarian. As a biologist, every day I see the _extinction_ of more species forever, and the ransacking of more ecosystems that's akin to the Russian attack on Ukraine except so much less reported and cared about and understood - because industrial humans, and yes, even the ones that ride horses and think they love them and think they are more in tune with nature, are so divorced from nature that most no longer understand these basic things, and indeed many consider themselves as the most important species of all, superior to everything else and the rightful Lord and Master of everything else on this planet.

And the chickens are coming home to roost, but of course, many humans have an alternative narrative for why that is, involving a plague-inflicting angry male sky parent that actually mirrors their own deepest psychology. That, by the way, is not true of all religion, but is inevitably true of fundamentalism of any flavour, and it would be nice if people stopped beating in each other's heads and everyone else's about that stuff, and learned where they end and others begin, and that they are actually so much less significant than they liked to think...although of course many psychologists are saying that this is exactly about people who have long been historically privileged having adverse reactions to giving up even an iota of their own excessive privilege.

Mr Moo will be enjoying his next 12-18 months, and that will be that. His life too is precious, and not because he's attracted the affection of a _H'omo_ allegedly _sapiens_. Nobody's life is more _precious_ than his, or less - not humans, or any other species. Ecologically, he is of less value than a wild animal or plant or fungus driven to the brink by our own species, but his life is precious. And yet life isn't fair, nor indeed unfair. It just is, and in nature, before agricultural and industrial civilisations, there was _balance_ - something the Indigenous people understood, and many still do - I hear them talking about it daily, and then I hear the vast ignorance, by comparison, of most modern humans, who historically thought them _savages_ and _uncivilised_ and drove them to the margins of _civilised_ society.

People who lived, on the Australian continent, for over 60,000 years without destroying the very web of _life_ and the grandeur of _diversity_ that supported them, as it supports all other species, and who industrialised humans not infrequently like to consider to have been too simple and too _unintelligent_ to have risen to their own great heights of ecosystem destruction, species obliteration and systemic cruelty to one another - the same kind of industrialised humans with anthropocentric, culturally "superior" world views who managed to mangle the Gondwanan biodiversity and beauty of the Australian continent in just over 200 years, while marginalising and brutalising the Indigenous Australians who had _stewarded_ and _conserved_ this place for at least the last 30,000 of their 60,000+ years on this continent.

And just as a minor note, they too consciously and actively limited their reproductive rates, which is how they managed not to become like a cancer on the rest of nature taking more than their share as modern humans do, and how they managed to ensure that the children they did raise would be carefully nurtured. They believed that the earth they were on was _precious_ and the one they had to _live_ with, and didn't think, as some fundamentalists of modern religions do, that it was essentially a disposable object made for their own convenience that would be replaced or irrelevant when the Apocalypse came, or that there were more important things than their mother earth, which they intimately knew everything alive depends upon.

Just thinking out loud, @knightrider, as is my wont. If anyone finds what I have said here objectionable and wants to debate this particular thing, please do it on your own journals, and if you wish it you can invite me explicitly and then I will look there and see if I want to reply, or you can just have your say and express what is important to you, which is what journals are for. While I am generally a fan of thoughtful debate, and have generally enjoyed that with this group (with the exceptions previously discussed here), I do view it as largely pointless for me to engage with the discredited ideas and conspiracy theories that were enumerated here in a previous list.

It does seem to me though that I'm probably better off on my own blog in the medium to long term, where my writing isn't curtailed and where people who don't like what I am saying don't have to go, and those who find it useful can. Although really, I guess it could be argued that that audience choice also exists for my HF journal, and actually, I do think on reflection that people who are offended by my objections to cultural supremacy, human snobbery, patriarchy, misogyny, xenophobia, homophobia, racial bigotry, religious fundamentalism, theocracy, autocracy, ecocide etc perhaps ought to unsubscribe from this journal / not visit. If anyone present answers to that description, but wants to keep me around in other ways, I would honour that by not discussing these things on your journal, but likewise I can opt out altogether, either on your wishes or mine.



knightrider said:


> The photos are marvelous. You don't know how happy I am that you are back!!!!


Thank you. Not sure how happy I can keep you, but not because I'm mean, just because I am an open and direct person and I long learnt that playing happy families to the outside is not a good thing to do, both in families of origin and chosen families, or indeed in the wider macrocosm.

I value your friendship and wish you a wonderfully happy day. I don't know what else I can do. 🖤

And none of those comments were directed specifically at you, @knightrider - I was just thinking out loud in response to what you said, and taking a very wide view of things.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Since spirituality is such an abused term and frequently seen as the monopoly of people's own organised-religious choices, I would like to present a playlist of songs that represent my own spirituality, and do it beautifully.

Goanna - _Solid Rock_





Warumpi Band - _Blackfella / Whitefella_





Yothu Yindi - _Treaty_





Paul Kelly - _Bicentennial_





The Cure - _Plainsong_


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Warumpi Band - _Animal Song_





Yothu Yindi - _World Turning_





Icehouse - _Great Southern Land_





U2 - _Seconds_





The Cure - Step Into The Light


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Sinéad O'Connor - _Black Boys On Mopeds_





The Kill Devil Hills - _Boneyard Rider_





The Church - _Under The Milky Way_





John Farnham - _You're The Voice_





The Cure - _Disintegration_


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Jenny Thomas of _Lord Of The Rings_ fame doing _Waltzing Matilda_





Karen Matheson - _Breisleach_





U2 - _Silver And Gold_





The Cure - _Us Or Them_





Arvo Paert - _Tabula Rasa_


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Paul Kelly - _Everything's Turning To White_





World Party - _Ballad Of The Little Man_





The Cure - Fear Of Ghosts





Big Country - _Rain Dance_





Fight Club - _This Is Your Life_


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Christine Anu - _My Island Home_





Apocalyptica - _One_





Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds - _The Ship Song_





The Waterboys - _Church Not Mad With Hands_





Johnny Cash - _Hurt_





...by no means exhaustive - I may add more later.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

SueC said:


> And none of those comments were directed specifically at you, @knightrider - I was just thinking out loud in response to what you said, and taking a very wide view of things.


I am glad to read what you write and happy that you are stretching our minds with your ideas. Thank you for being you.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

knightrider said:


> I am glad to read what you write and happy that you are stretching our minds with your ideas. Thank you for being you.


Ditto.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*WINTER RUGS*

Don't let the sun in the photo fool you - it had only just come out for the day and it's bitingly cold here at the moment, with frosts every morning this week - and that's on the clear days, when we're not being battered by cold fronts and gales. I thought I'd get some photos just before taking the rugs off. Julian has this week upgraded from his purple rain sheet to a proper winter rug which he's inherited from Sunsmart. He's not as tall - shorter legs, shorter neck are the main differences - but his body is very similar apart from that, and I didn't even have to adjust any of the straps from Sunsmart's settings. It fits him really well and the colour suits him too.

My easy keepers have rain sheets - that's Julian, and also was Sunsmart - not just warm winter rugs. My geriatrics have warm rugs only - that was Romeo, and currently is Chasseur AKA Buzzy, who inherited Romeo's relatively new rug when Romeo died in 2019. Romeo was the tallest, longest horse I had here, so his rug is a bit "plus sized" for Chasseur, but it's not causing any chafing issues or getting caught in straps or having trouble galloping in it, and the extra length gives him extra warmth over the hindquarters.





I like the quick-fastening across the chest of this rug - there's buckles to adjust length, but after it's all the right length, you just use dog clips to close the chest seam. Saves fussing and time and makes it quicker and easier to put rugs on and take them off again.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Sue, I wanted to answer your question but not clog up egrogans journal. Asterix was fantastic! A lot of problems were solved by physical violence, though! I have not read those others you mentioned. Summer is in full swing here and my reading is greatly diminished due to my work schedule. The last book I read was 'only by blood and suffering',suggested by @Knave and prior to that I read @gottatrot s 'round pen, square horse' book. Both quite exciting reads. Late winter I was reading books by and about the amish and mennonites, who heavily inhabit the area I live in. I love reading actual books I can open up in my hand and touch the paper pages. I can then put them away for reference and they can't be erased or altered like an e-book. 

I have been thinking about your 'owner builder burnout'. Mainly because I'm feeling it. You are living inside a project and everywhere you look is work. It's tough to relax or justify taking a break. If I just do this, I can get to that and then move on to the other and it never seems to end. 

I love the winter rugs. Julian looks like he is modeling his. I could use some of that cool air on this side of the planet! I just looked at one of my beloved hoodies stashed on my closet shelf covered in horse hair and dander and I longed for autumn.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

It is terribly hot here today too @TrainedByMares. I don’t love heat, but I do love how green everything is, well, everything watered of course. Queen has been hot lately, and I think the heat is helping me out with her. I could be excited for fall, and I am, but I am not looking forward to snow again yet. It just stopped freezing at nights, and summer is half over. I don’t want for cold rides yet.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Knave said:


> It is terribly hot here today too @TrainedByMares. I don’t love heat, but I do love how green everything is, well, everything watered of course. Queen has been hot lately, and I think the heat is helping me out with her. I could be excited for fall, and I am, but I am not looking forward to snow again yet. It just stopped freezing at nights, and summer is half over. I don’t want for cold rides yet.


If it's hot and dry, that's okay by me. The humidity is what saps my will to work! You're right, it is nice that the horses are easier to handle in the heat. I worked with Jesse on the ground today and there were no theatrics,just perfect movement. If she could talk,she would have been saying "I did it right, can I go now ?" Lol


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

TrainedByMares said:


> Sue, I wanted to answer your question but not clog up egrogans journal. Asterix was fantastic! A lot of problems were solved by physical violence, though!


Yeah, but for some reason when reading _Asterix_ I was always aware of that and thought it was preposterous and just cartoon humour, rather than something to emulate or look up to - I never went away thinking, "Yeah, that's a fantastic idea to solve problems this way!" and I can't imagine the authors did either. In some ways for me part of the humour was that it was just so utterly preposterous and exaggerated. Sort of like this...






Part of the humour there is how Marty Feldman's character is so totally besotted with his pet and so enthusiastic and caring, and yet every time he opens the basket he's hitting it hell for leather and then closing the box again and going back immediately to smiling and being besotted and enthusiastic talking about the animal.

Which is also why my husband and I once spent hours reading through this musician joke site on the laptop after bedtime when we needed something to laugh about, and ended up in actual stitches and crying with laughter with serious pain in the diaphragm and abdominal muscles...because these jokes are so mean and preposterous that part of the humour is just the shock of how anybody could even think like that...



Musician Jokes



With _Asterix_, I also think the names a hilarious - _Cacofonix_ the bard, _Unhygienix_ the fish monger, _Impedimenta_ his wife etc etc. 😄




TrainedByMares said:


> I have not read those others you mentioned. Summer is in full swing here and my reading is greatly diminished due to my work schedule. The last book I read was 'only by blood and suffering',suggested by @Knave and prior to that I read @gottatrot s 'round pen, square horse' book. Both quite exciting reads. Late winter I was reading books by and about the amish and mennonites, who heavily inhabit the area I live in. I love reading actual books I can open up in my hand and touch the paper pages. I can then put them away for reference and they can't be erased or altered like an e-book.


Oooh, I saw a really interesting documentary about the Amish a few years ago, and their "Rumspringa" phase where as young adults they get to go out and look at the modern world. So the camera crew followed groups of Amish adolescents spending time in various cities in America and also in London, being shown around by local adolescents. The conversations these adolescents were having amongst each other were just fascinating - and for all their being cloistered, the Amish kids came off as so much more mature and level-headed than the London city kids, for instance. They'd kind of goggle at the upset some of the London girls had over a broken fingernail, and over some of the things they worried about and gave attention to, and they were a lot more community-focused and less narcissistic, and not always less educated either. They had a lot more practical skills but they also had a better handle on mathematics and language than the average London comprehensive school kid, even if they'd not done laboratory science.

Of course ideally you have all of that and truckloads more, but it was kind of comparing religious brainwash to commercial/popular culture brainwash. I don't think it was an entirely fair comparison - I'd have liked to have seen the Amish kids with, for example, British farm kids or British kids from villages in places like the Lake District, who would also be more practical and down to earth and mature than the average inner-city London comprehensive-school kid (these are the low-end academic kids largely with very little interest in learning - I've taught there and it really is the dregs and like another planet in terms of wanting to learn and behaviour towards others, reflecting their home lives and how they spend their days, and not at all like the rural kids I was teaching here in Albany, Western Australia, who were on the whole just lovely kids).

Or, you know, the Amish kids with @Knave's kids - because I can't imagine @Knave's girls losing sleep over breaking a fingernail or wanting to look just like a celebrity and I imagine they'd have a lot in common with those kids, just as I have a lot in common with those kids actually - the working with the land and animals and planting things, the appreciation for solving problems and making things and being creative, and working as a team with others. Sadly, the humans from the "human feedlot" (as I call cities) are just so divorced from nature and community, so that I actually, on many levels, have much more in common with Amish than with people whose preferred habitat is the shopping centre. And that's despite being agnostic, and secular, and not enamoured of religious fundamentalism or any other kind. It's that despite their religious indoctrination, the Amish kids are free-range organic, with a childhood not hijacked by screens, so that in some ways they are actually much more free than kids growing up in socially disadvantaged urban areas. But it doesn't have to be either-or, in theory...

Re books, at our house we also love actual paper volumes you can smell and touch etc. This shows you what we consider the correct ratio of screen to bookshelves:


...and these are not our only bookshelves, there's an entire wall like this in the office as well plus I'm going to build more bookshelf space as part of the general storage shelving I will make for our attic. 🤩

When we have non-hippies around, we sometimes get asked, "OMG, how can you live with such a small television? You need a bigger one with surround-sound!" and we laugh and say that if we want realistic and big and surround-sound, we just go outdoors...




TrainedByMares said:


> I have been thinking about your 'owner builder burnout'. Mainly because I'm feeling it. You are living inside a project and everywhere you look is work. It's tough to relax or justify taking a break. If I just do this, I can get to that and then move on to the other and it never seems to end.


Yeah, that's right, and I've had to learn to sit and relax with an unfinished to-do list, because out here the to-do list is never going to finish! I really enjoy the house now, just the space which kind of cradles us in a way a synthetic modern kind of house never could have.

Having said that, yesterday we sighed and looked at each other and, instead of going off hiking, we did some spring cleaning - got the ladder out and vacuumed the high sills and the cobwebs off the ceilings and the wall tops; cleaned the fly screens and window glass in the high windows; started gap-filling hairline fissure lines in the plaster to support the stress lines and avoid plaster degradation (the house moves - and also we had an earthquake a couple of years back which made some fine cracks, nothing too dramatic, just superficial). It's time-consuming and puts me in danger of making more complaint-ditties, but at the end of the day, the house does need and deserve TLC as well. (Now if only we had an army of Oompa-Loompas...)

So I gather you DIY a lot yourself? Obviously outdoors, and maybe you're renovating too and building your own structures? I've not read all your journal yet (very slow reader) and you might have referred to that there, of course...

How long have you been living where you are now? Where were you before, and what made you choose your current place?




Knave said:


> It is terribly hot here today too @TrainedByMares. I don’t love heat, but I do love how green everything is, well, everything watered of course. Queen has been hot lately, and I think the heat is helping me out with her. I could be excited for fall, and I am, but I am not looking forward to snow again yet. It just stopped freezing at nights, and summer is half over. I don’t want for cold rides yet.


Autumn is my favourite season for sure. Moderate temperatures, no hayfever, not too wet, not too cold, not too hot...




TrainedByMares said:


> If it's hot and dry, that's okay by me. The humidity is what saps my will to work! You're right, it is nice that the horses are easier to handle in the heat. I worked with Jesse on the ground today and there were no theatrics,just perfect movement. If she could talk,she would have been saying "I did it right, can I go now ?" Lol


I'm with you on that - dry heat when there's a breeze is somewhat tolerable, but humidity and heat - just no. 

And riding horses in the heat, maybe they're easier to handle, but I think I'd just pass out and fall off them. 😵

A long time ago, as a kid, I used to ride my Arabian mare in the dry breezy summer heat sometimes, with temperatures in the high 30s/low 40s (deg C!) - but in that case, always in shorts and barefoot and no helmet and bareback. Did some endurance training with her like this - a 10km loop, including an uphill we used to pelt up at a gallop (she loved to gallop and up sandy inclines is probably the safest place to do it, you could just say, "OK, and you choose when you want to stop!") with kangaroos occasionally jumping out of the bushland left and right, just to keep me on my toes. I don't know how I never fell off doing that but in part it was because I knew it would be _really really bad_ to fall off at high speeds with no helmet and that therefore I really shouldn't. Plus young growing people have incredible reflexes, not to mention seem to be made of rubber...🐙

When I came back from the ride I'd hose down my sweaty horse and myself and put my shorts straight in the wash. We both enjoyed the cool (but not cold) water after a summer daytime outing!

These days I don't even go outdoors after 10am or before 4pm in summer if I can avoid it, let alone ride...the UV, errghh..


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*MEETING* *WONDERFUL* *PEOPLE*

We are so in luck with the vast majority of our farmstay guests - I meet such lovely and interesting people that way. Only about 1 in 20 are not great and I did earlier this year ask someone to leave if they couldn't undertake to respect our house rules _and_ to never, ever speak to me disrespectfully again. They had take-up time to think about their choice and I made it clear I would not make things awkward for them if they decided to stay and be polite, but the guy ended up leaving, and that was for the best. It's the first time in over two and a half years of hosting that this happened, which is pretty good actually. We do manage to screen most of those icky people out to prevent such situations in the first place. But the odd bad apple doesn't change that the vast majority of people who come through here are lovely.

Because we have been busy plastering, I closed our calendar for three weeks, but since yesterday I have a guest who is on a little getaway and thought she just had to come stay with us. She's interested in nature and art and food and cultural matters, and in thinking about all sorts of things, just as we are, so we had a lovely long conversation over dinner - mushroom risotto last night and cherry clafoutis, with the wood fire on, so we all got in a food coma. This person is Indigenous NZ with a lot of cultural awareness around that and she's lived in Japan and travelled widely etc. Also she's halfway through a pregnancy, the first child for her and her partner who couldn't come along because of other commitments, but she says will be disappointed to have missed out when she tells him about her stay and will have to see this place for himself.

We've just had wonderful conversations about things like how language affects your consciousness, and we compared language for different concepts in English, German, Gaelic and Maori. So for instance, _How_ _are_ _you? _is mostly a rhetorical question in English, where you're generally expected to answer _I'm well, thank you_ no matter how you are actually feeling - something that really struck me coming into an English-speaking culture at age 11. In German you're expected to answer it honestly, and in Irish Gaelic there's five stock responses ranging from _On top of the world! _to_ One foot in the grave_ and various things in-between.

In Maori, anatomical terms aren't like parts of a toaster, they are imbued with concepts of energy - in German, some anatomical language is plain weird and carries connotations of shame, especially around genitalia, where the English language has quite neutral terms derived from Latin so you can have quite a clinical discussion on that stuff without bringing a lot of emotional baggage into the conversation. We had a good laugh at some of the literal translations of German anatomical terms and my guest said, "So how does any German person survive sex ed?" and laughter and anecdotes followed. I vividly remember the mutual horror of a friend and me at age 10 and our wish never to grow up and start growing things with horrible names on our bodies...and my guest and I both remember having really inept sex education teachers in middle school, which is why I always volunteered to teach it myself and my students could ask anything (including anonymously with a question box that was passed around) and I made sure that things stayed sympathetic and respectful and humorous and dead accurate.

Also of course, in Australia it's standard to do a carrots-and-condoms icebreaker with 15-year-olds working in pairs - sex education here is very like in Europe, matter-of-fact and not overlain with any puritanical or religious baggage (and to a large extent that's even true in our Catholic schools, which surprised me). Plus we do relationships and emotional education and discuss things like boundaries and what consent looks like and doesn't, and what respect looks like, because of ongoing issues around that in society.

NZ is ahead of Australia in many ways - women had the vote there before 1900, Indigenous reconciliation is streets ahead, and look at their fabulous PM Jacinda Ardern - a real human, not a robot - with warmth, compassion, intelligence, vitality, and she got elected in her 30s, like several Scandinavian/Baltic PMs.

So much to talk about, and then there was visual art and film. This morning we all had waffles with berry/citrus sauce from our own fruit, before Brett went off to work and us ladies set off on an early-morning walk through our conservation reserve here at Red Moon Sanctuary, talking about ecology and cultural burning practices, and then following a kangaroo path up the ridge past towering ant nests and ancient grass trees into a thicket of blooming acacias covered in lemon yellow pom-poms. We talked nature and spirituality and connection to country, versus standard Western ways of looking at things - and our sense of being stardust in an ever-rearranging living world, from which we came and to which we will return, as everything does. We talked about feeling our smallness in the universe and being comforted rather than scared by this, and the just-being in a place like this, and the need to defend such remaining places as we have decided to do, and about white notions of ownership versus stewardship. And language again. Another time I will have to tell @Knave that there is no word for safety in the tribal language of an Indigenous Australian I heard in a podcast this week - because they don't have a word where that idea is divorced from a person being careful and responsible and people watching out for each other...


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Sue, your reading room looks wonderful. It looks very light, airy and relaxing. I love the cookstove! I would be spending time in there for sure. 

We certainly didn't inherit our current property, we bought and paid for it, but we did inherit the crumbling infrastructure. It is 20.4 acres with a hundred year old farmhouse and a twenty year old addition. We moved here about a year and a half ago so we could have more room for the horses and to get away from where we were. The previous place was modern. We lived there for twenty years but had come full circle with the property, so to speak. We were beside many acres of state land which had been relatively untouched for the time we were there. I had cleared many trails through the woods for walking and riding and I maintained them like a park. Right after we sold, the state came in and butchered the forest. It looks like a battlefield now. They claim they are making 'habitat' for something but it is the truth that they took habitat away from many things. 

So, we live in an old farmhouse with gold wallpaper on the bathroom walls and orange shag carpet in my bedroom. Much renovation is needed inside the house. This farm was called Bitter Wind by a previous owner. It sits up on top of a foothill to the nearby mountain and when the wind blows cold in the winter, you know why it got the name. Some time later this summer, we are getting all new windows installed because the wind was blowing inside the house as well, even with the windows closed! Sometimes, things fail and break quicker than I can fix them and the list grows ever longer.Yes, I am a DIY. I can do that! And that, too! I have this problem where I think I'm still 33 years old and can work all day and night and keep doing that every day so it's no big deal when another project rears it's ugly heads. Yeah, I'll just get that done. But I'm not 33 and when it's 4 o'clock in the afternoon and I'm wiped out : 'hey, let's go see what's on horse forum' lol

The amish and mennonites are interesting. They have a super strong family unit, work ethic and positive environmental view but... in my opinion, the women are held back from true fulfillment. And I think guys should be able to cook, clean and wash dishes. 

Marty Feldman is funny. I think I remember that skit from years ago. Maybe I watched it on TV. I loved the Three Stooges! They always solved problems with 'fun' violence but you know, if there was a widow or some other downtrodden soul that needed help, they always went out of their way to try to help out.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t know any Amish persons, but get along well with Mennonites. I think the Amish culture wouldn’t work well where I live, because too much equipment is actually required to live in our country. It is a harsh environment. My girls get along well with my friends, but haven’t been around kids their own age much. I think my oldest would struggle with her mouth. Lol

I tend towards legalism, which keeps me from being interested in the church itself, although I love the people and their views. It wouldn’t be good for me.

I also haven’t been around many city people in my life. I imagine I would struggle with them.

As far as sex ed goes, we do not have it here. I was on the board, and kind of a part of that problem. The state has some crazy regulations for sex ed, and so that is why they don’t do it. I guess it falls on the head of the parents. I would like to believe we have done a good job, but we talk about these things as they come up in the news or with stories they tell me of other children. There are so many practical things you almost forget to say unless something comes up.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*INDOORS THINGS*

Since we've been hosting the last three days, we've been rather civilised instead of running around like ragamuffins in mouldy old work clothes - and also the house is very very clean. As you've probably never actually seen me sitting in an armchair, here's one from this morning.


*Sue & Jess*

We then took some photos with Jess hoping to get a couple of good ones, but instead got a series that really should have been filmed. So here are sequential photos that you'll have to animate in your own head...because Jess is so funny when she would like to avail herself of my useful digits...


They say dogs don't like being embraced and I always give animals space, but this one comes up to me and nestles, and enjoys being held (loosely, of course, and never with my arms locked so she can back off anytime).





When we first met her at the farm dog rescue in 2013, she got handed over to me on a lead just outside her erstwhile kennel and she didn't even look at us, she just hoovered her nose along the ground with enormous interest and wanted to go hither and yon checking out the scents. We eventually got her to come towards the car with us, where I installed her in the floorwell of the passenger seat with me. She still wasn't looking at us more than half a second at a time, but she showed great interest, as we were driving, in getting a view out of the windscreen. In order to achieve it, she assumed a sort of meerkat posture - literally like this:








...facing the front bolt upright in the floorwell and staring out at the road ahead of us with acute attention. 😄

Here's a clip from when she was settling down a bit and starting to cast us glances:






Eventually we put her in the rear compartment for the rest of the trip, in which she stood with her chin on the middle headrest, sightseeing - like this:

There is a joke in Australia: How do you tell a Border Collie from a Kelpie? ...well, the Border Collie likes to ride in a car, the Kelpie wants to drive it... Ours is a working line Kelpie, with enough Border Collie genes for the paint job and enough dingo DNA for incredible snake sense, plus an insistence on leaving her droppings on top of bushes or tufts of grass or piles of seaweed when possible - just as foxes and dingoes will do.

Eventually when she got home with us in the late afternoon, had a good sniff around the outdoors there, and a walk on the lead around our property, she was able to be coaxed indoors where we fed her - we had Seafood Spaghetti ourselves and she got a generous dollop of the sauce on her kibbles. After than we installed her into an armchair, in which she curled up. I sat with her and just before she went to sleep after her eventful day, she had a good look at me and then sighed when I stroked her ears and neck. It's funny to think such an aloof dog has become such a snuggly possum - but Kelpies do bond strongly with their main contact person.

The last two photos are funny - look how she curls her tail up and against my face...the white tip is just above my ear.


It's not a coincidence - it's this habit she's got. Her tail is almost prehensile. At night when I let her out of the French door, when she comes back in she will curl her tail halfway around my leg on the way back in as she is passing, and then her tail unwinds as she makes her way back to her sofa. 

*The Finished Attic Walls*

This is the last wall we worked on, which is now nearly completely dry - and a little expressionism.




This is the French door end - later this year we have to build a little Romeo&Juliet balcony so we can open the doors...

My next main job is to finish the floor. Initially we'd thought about installing sisal carpet, or cork tiles. We found sisal wasn't available where we live and we don't want anything synthetic, and not wool either. I might look around to see if it can be shipped from Perth. We have no carpet anywhere in the house but could probably get away with it upstairs, plus it would offer additional sound insulation to the room below.

We looked at cork tiles and honestly, they don't seem to be that great a look compared to some straight MDF floor finishes I have seen - and would be a hassle to conform to the curved strawbale walls. The floor here is just MDF board and it could be stained and then gloss-sealed (once I've obscured all the screw heads), or possibly milkwashed and then gloss-sealed. I'm looking into that and if any of you have seen any treatments on MDF / particleboard flooring that you liked, or can think of anything else that is low-toxic, fairly natural and could suit the room, please let me know!

Here's a few examples of MDF as finish floor:








This one is just gloss sealed straight MDF. The owner says it's not suitable for high-traffic areas - but our attic is not one of those, plus we plan to put large rugs down in it.

This next one is stained then sealed - and obviously different dimensions to our boards, but the finish looks very acceptable.








So that's some ideas I am playing with. I've not found a milkwash-then-gloss-seal example, which would probably work best for the room colours. Some people just seal and then gloss paint their floors:








...but I prefer something stained and then sealed after, for texture...


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I love the Jess photos. I can just imagine her squirming all around enjoying all the affection.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@knightrider, I just found and added into the above post a little clip of her that we took at the time when we were driving home! 

And here's one where we took her to the beach for the first time:






The bigger dog is a Border Collie we walked for the neighbour for many years.

This is her a few months later when we broke a long drive at an inland lake in the wheatbelt, called Lake Towerinning.






Eating a bone upside down - look at her prehensile paws!






More recently, accompanying us riding with Sunsmart:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Antics in a hiking hut:






Her favourite game - the balloon game with which she entertains all our visitors...






And showing an interest in the food on my 50th birthday hike last year...











We'd taken a huge strawberry tart up Mt Hallowell - in a shoebox bequeathed to us by the nice lady at the Denmark Co-Op. The idea was to keep it in one piece, but oh well...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*SUNDAY EXTENDED VALLEY FLOOR RIDE*

Well, I _still_ haven't set up a playground riding area, so here we were with a little time up our sleeves on a Sunday, so we took a communal walk _again_ with Brett, Jess and Julian. This time, to make it a little different, we extended the route for the benefit of the horse and the dog, and went across to the neighbour's. We got lots of photos, starting with collecting the horse.

This morning had started lovely and sunny, so the rugs came off. As soon as our visitor left, I got changed and we were ready to ride. Then it rained intermittently for two hours! So I went back inside and the horses used the shelter during the showers.


The rain was just clearing when we decided to try our luck after lunch. We got a clip of Chasseur AKA Mr Buzzy getting brushed but I think we will need a better one another time - things were a bit restrained today because it was icy cold with the winds straight from the Antarctic. I actually got chilblains riding.






We set out across the Common, where I got on the horse after re-girthing. The donkeys were already out there, as we opened the gate before I got the horse ready.

Pretty soon we had a visit from Nelly, who dotes on Julian. Here's a series of her enthusiastic greeting hitting Julian's reserve.








Then came Ben and Don Quixote.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Jess always wants to herd these animals...



I'm still looking at my posture, and wearing a shoulder brace as I sit here typing because when I relax, my shoulders hang forward. I will need to build some more muscles around the shoulder blades specifically. My Pilates teacher told me that while working on these things improves my posture and functionality, I actually am not built with a "straight" back like some people - I have scoliosis at the top of the thoracic spine, since childhood, and also she says I have rounded scapulas not flat. She doesn't think it's bad but she thinks it's good to exercise these areas and keep an eye on it. I wear that shoulder brace on and off to remind my autopilot what it's aiming for - and perhaps I should wear it riding sometimes too. You can see though that when I'm turning my head in the last photo I've stopped being asleep and picked up my posture. But I also think I need to put on Sunsmart's original saddle cloth instead of the bulkier one that belonged to my Arabian mare. It seems to me the saddle is slightly too high over the withers because of the bulk of the old saddlecloth. We'll see how it goes when that slightly adjusts the saddle angle, which at the moment is crowding me a bit.

After the ceremonial greetings from interested donkeys, we said goodbye to the long-ears and Chasseur, who elected to graze, and turned into the Middle Meadow and from there into the Swamp Track.

Turning right along our Southern Boundary, we parted company with Brett, who used a kangaroo gate to get through the fence for an alternative route that didn't take him through the boggy patch that feeds the seasonal stream. Julian went through that without much fuss and I hopped off at the gate to get us through it - there's also a 10kV electric line on the other side to guard the gate from being turned into a grooming accessory by the neighbour's cattle, which I unhooked, and then hooked back in. After that, we walked back along the other side of the fence in the direction we had just come, towards the neighbour's dam near our property boundary, where Brett was waiting for us.




I then got on the horse, and attempted to follow Brett up the sandbank to the side of the dam. We got halfway up when Jess splashed into the dam behind us and sent Julian spooking back down the hill! I laughed - the exact same thing had happened with Sunsmart when we first got Jess and took her along riding. Every time she jumped into a dam the tremendous splashing sound would make the horse jump, until he got used to the fact that everywhere there is water, the dog will jump in enthusiastically and make a commotion.

We didn't get a photo of the first dam in all the excitement, but a few heading down the trail to the second dam. This is the first time I've ridden Julian on the neighbour's block. We've walked here together quite a few times but today was another saddle education milestone.




This is riding into the little meadow around the second dam.

And SPLASH and - a little spook! 🙃

It was only a one-leap spook. I'm happy to see I've not grabbed the reins during this leap but let them be quite loose - riders tend to grab their reins in situations like this, which causes anything from discomfort to a painful jolt to the horse's mouth, which actually exacerbates the situation. "Stay out of your horse's mouth when he does this!" was the counsel of the horse training manual I've used since age 11, and I'm happy to say that most of the time I do - and then gather the horse gently, with the seat and gentle rein pressure. Moments later, he's calm again.

The take-home is that the fear of loss of control tends to make humans dig a deeper hole with a spooking horse, and that acting gently and tactfully with the bit so that it never hurts his mouth during something like this keeps the horse soft in the mouth and doesn't add pain to the shock that made him spook. Because habitual rein-grabbers during spooks establish in their horses the expectation that when a space alien lands in the bushes, next thing that happens is that they get a jolt in the jaw, and that makes it even spookier for the horse - because of the pain, and also because he actually needs, in the immediate milliseconds after he sees a space alien, to feel that he is free to get away and not impeded by the rider - and as the initial shock settles for the horse, you gently gather him back, mindful of his mouth.

It seemed counterintuitive to me when I first read about that, but I tried it and it was the right advice. Being gentle at the start of a spook tends to settle the horse - grabbing the reins alarms him further. You'll never hold a horse back physically - you can't make him stop by inflicting pain on him with the bit. The bit is just a communication device, and needs to be used gently at all times. It's good communication, teamwork and trust that will help you to take a horse out of a spook - not brute force. If you want something with physical brakes, ride something mechanical, like a bicycle! 🤪

We left the second dam, turned across the open paddock at the other end, and made our way back to our boundary gate.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Brett held the gate open for us this time, and then closed it behind. I tried to turn Julian towards the gate to stop him from spooking over the incipient tinkling metal noise of the gate chain being put back in its catch - when dark shapes appeared partly concealed by branches hanging into the track. Now I could not turn him because he had spooky things in both directions - so I decided to get off him before he even had a chance to get excited about anything.

Moments later, some of our cattle appeared on our Sand Track that leads back to our house! Brett was still closing the gate. Julian knows the cattle and co-grazes with them, but is not used yet to them suddenly appearing in the bushland when we're out riding. So I return to the babysitter role when something potentially super-exciting or scary happens, with a horse this green - because the prevention of bad experiences for horses and riders is so important for the confidence of both, and reduces accident risk. He will see situations like this again and again, and before too long it won't bother him at all - "old hat" - and then he'll be able to be ridden calmly through a situation that might have caused him to spook and run off when he encountered it the first few times. This is only ride number six for us, after all! 

The cattle were blocking the road, but gave way to the horse. So far so good - no problems there for Julian beyond the surprise of seeing them in an unexpected place. But because the cattle were leaping into the bushes to hide from the horse they soon started making crunching and snapping sounds in the vegetation, which he has never heard before on a ride - and watch what happens when that goes down!


Calm - then a spook at a particularly loud sound:

And moments later, he's settled.

Now I'm turning him to face the source of the noise so he can see what's happening.



And now we're just hanging out, watching some entertainment. That's how quickly a situation can go from potential dynamite to calm and interested and learning. Why does it work better to do this off a horse the first few times? Because then I'm beside him, as a herd member he can see, and can get between him and the scary thing like a mare does for a foal, and I can show him how I'm dealing with the matter. Social mammals have mirror neurons - tend to adapt similar gestures and approaches when interacting with each other - tend to mirror each other, and if the horse sees you as the senior (experienced, protective of youngsters) horse he'll take his cues off you. If he doesn't he'll try to get away from you and run. This horse has known me for 21 years and I was his babysitter for his initial harness education. I'm always his defender and protector. You can see he's not fighting with me here at any point - but very quickly going back to observing and learning, after his initial spooky leap before.

And now he knows what's going on, we can turn back down the track and walk away.




If you're interested in mirror neurons, have a look at the last two photos. Our steps are in phase with each other. This is unconscious - through mirror neurons. But it shows you we're connected and working as a team.

This was Julian's longest ride to date, so I was happy to let him stretch his back and for me to stretch mine, not to mention warm up a little in the freezing cold, and to walk with him the rest of the way, taking "beside the horse" photos at the end!




Another good session - we learnt a ton, and nobody got hurt - not even remotely! 

A nice head-rub and a bucket of food for the lovely horse, and back to the armchair for me!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

A New York singer Brett and I have both loved the music of since we were teenagers, and she's still making great music.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC, Fizz needs to come hang out with Julian in the bush to encounter those cows. Though she might choose to levitate to outer space with the aliens rather than have to be that close to them! 🐄 🐄 

I loved reading this most recent post juxtaposed with the thread in the main forum about whether trail horses are born or trained. Of course, there was a reference to that old thread which promotes "obedience at all costs" and "never let them stop and look at something they act scared of" as the gold standard for "making" a trail horse.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Funny no, levitation sounds really cool unless you are a horse person! 😱

Want to levitate? _Oh yeah, please! _...get on this horse... 😇 👾🚀

That old thread, don't get me started. The human species really is an obnoxious species and far more stupid (and arrogant) on the whole than the giving-itself-airs species name suggests. _Sapiens_, bwahaha. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. That thread shows complete contempt for the horse as a biological entity, in the same manner of colonial cultural superiority that's par for the course for unreconstructed Westerners. Take utter ignorance of how a different culture or species operate and why, combined with the idea that you're the pinnacle of all the species and of civilisation, and treat these individuals as lesser-than and put on the planet for your convenience and that it is your celestial duty to domineer and instruct them on how they should be - and in doing so, learn absolutely nothing yourself because how could you possibly, I mean, it's the _other_ party who has to learn here, _clearly_...

So much more fun to each learn about the other's language and reasons for doing things, and to have an egalitarian relationship than one of dictator and servant. And it takes you so much further. 🌞


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

egrogan said:


> I loved reading this most recent post juxtaposed with the thread in the main forum about whether trail horses are born or trained. Of course, there was a reference to that old thread which promotes "obedience at all costs" and "never let them stop and look at something they act scared of" as the gold standard for "making" a trail horse.


Oh yeah, as soon as I saw that old thread, I remembered what it said and thought, "That's one I'll skip." I don't need to read that mess again.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I posted a long response on that thread after it was mentioned here. I thought about posting a link to post #172 (10 July) from this thread, but...didn't. Tried to diplomatically point out some of us didn't want a horse who never looked around. Although....diplomacy & I don't belong in the same sentence, unless with a "not" between - to paraphrase Dorothy Sayers (IIRC).


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)




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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*TEETH DONE - NO DRAMAS*

Greg has just been over to do my horses' teeth - old fashioned manual float, just as it used to be done before the modern mania for power tools, crushes and sedation. It's how it was done all my life until the last five years or so in this area. The last person to do a manual tooth float for me was a locum working at a local surgery, years ago. The results of my giving someone with power tools a go can be seen here, skull and all.

To recap - to my great surprise, the power tool people ground down Sunsmart's incisors and canines - not something I had asked for - and this had left sharp enamel edges around the new top surfaces of the teeth, which came to my attention when I saw my horse had a bleeding tongue the next day. When I caught him, I saw he'd cut the margin of his tongue around the front of the mouth in a dozen locations, felt around for the cause, found razor-sharp edges on the newly ground incisors and the canines, and called the vet on the phone about it. He probably thought I was a fantasist or a crank - didn't really believe me and said he'd be out to look next time he was in my area, but then he never came, and a week later in desperation I took the sharp edges off myself using a diamond nail file, as best as I could.

Because the horse had Cushings, he was infection-prone. It took months for his tongue to heal properly - although no new cuts were inflicted after I took the edges off, the existing cuts didn't stop ulcerating for ages and I went to the chemist to get baby teething gel to put on these areas to make him more comfortable. I was hosing out his mouth every second day and rinsing him with chlorhexidine the veterinarian had left me for him (because his Cushings had been causing periodontosis), and the ulcer gel at least helped control the discomfort and swelling.

That was one issue I'd never had to deal with before after a horse dental; but it also didn't improve his ability to eat his food, which dentals normally do. You can argue about how much of this was Cushings causing dental malformation and how much of it was the dental itself - but the tongue cuts and ulcers were a direct result of the dental, so when I got the recall card for a repeat recommended dental 12 months later I ignored it, and looked around for someone else, with manual tools.

That was before Sunsmart died. I had no luck until Brett happened to talk to Greg, our farrier friend, and it turns out Greg floats teeth manually. Well! If I'd known that! Greg used to trim and if necessary shoe my horses (pre boots; we used wide aluminium racing plates) when I had them agisted in town, and later on helped me out by coming all the way to Redmond once a year even though he doesn't usually travel that far, to do my late summer trim (when the hooves are rock hard!) and laugh at my trimming tools for me. 😜

All this drama could have been avoided. Today was like turning the clock back - Greg turned up with his files and gag, I got a bucket of water, we cross-tied the horses in the shelter - you can see how that's a space where they can't go backing up forever, which is all we needed.










Both horses were mature animals when we adopted them and routinely had their teeth floated manually without sedation. I was expecting that maybe Julian would throw his head around a bit because he has a strong neck and is very assertive about his space and having his person interfered with, and had a twitch in case.

We did Mr Buzzy first - and towards the end he was a bit over it and leaning back, and thinking about throwing his head around, but Greg and I sort of hypnotised him by the way we were talking to him and making various noises horse people will make when trying to mesmerise an animal into holding still. A few "hey"s and "oy"s and a bit of growling, interspersed with cheery "good boy"s, "nearly done"s, drawn-out approving noises and little lullabies; a fair bit of toddler-distracting by rubbing the forehead or an ear, holding on the the top lip in imitation of a twitch, and always going back to the _good boy, well done_ broken record when the horse was holding still.

We talked about that afterwards, by the way - Greg laughed and said that he works with so many people who, as he put it, "play with horses" and yet so few horsepeople. Even some of the best racehorse trainers around here - he thinks they're great fitness trainers and some of them are really good at picking a yearling, but very few of them are actual _horsepeople_ who can read a horse and communicate with it effectively, and handle a horse well under pressure.

It's interesting to hear that from Greg, who was born in 1954 and has worked with horses all his life. Today we also worked out that his birthday is the same as Brett's - 17th of July - how about that! ...because I'd been birthday shopping and mentioned it.


_These, by the way, are Sunsmart's last set of worn-out horseshoes, from 2009 - we moved on to boots after that..._

But I digress. Buzzy was pretty happy when we let him go, and immediately tried out his newly attended teeth on a bowl of horse cubes. Big improvement - which is what you want to see. The good news on him is that even though he's 29 later this year, his teeth are in good shape, none of them are loose, and he's only missing one lower molar - from the way he was chewing the last couple of months I half expected him to have loose teeth and several molars missing.

We then caught a rather suspicious Julian, who'd watched what we were doing with his friend - and expected him to protest more than Buzzy at the tooth floating, because he is younger, and a physically strong and very alpha horse - but he was just super - really easy. He didn't throw his head around once - just got wide eyes every now and then like a rabbit in the headlights, while I rubbed his forehead and spoke to him in soothing tones. He was incredibly cooperative considering this really can't be fun - not just the actual tooth floating; the rasping vibrations go through the whole skull and probably rattle the braincase a fair bit, which is why it's a good thing the brain itself is suspended in and cushioned by cerebrospinal fluid - like an egg in a jar filled with water (you can shake it, but you won't break it).

I thanked the horse for his cooperation and took his halter off when we finished - and he high-tailed out of the shelter at a racing trot and did a few circles, before I re-loaded both the horses' feed buckets and told them to enjoy their "new" teeth (much improved eating!). Meanwhile Greg and I looked at skulls - the ones from the link above, which Greg had never seen, but he knew and had trimmed both the horses. He then expressed an interest in seeing Sunsmart's skull, which is still out in the heathland - I'm not sure I want to bring it back - so we took a ten-minute walk up the sand track behind the house; it's a gorgeous sunny day and no hardship to walk in weather like this, with the birds singing from the trees.










We had a chat about those teeth. He could feel that even though I'd worked on those incisor and canine edges with a diamond-grit nail file when the vet failed to return, the canines were still sharper than they should have been on the inner edge that was hard to get to without a mouth gag. He wondered why anyone would grind those down if they weren't causing any troubles - this had just created a new problem - and why anyone would grind them down so extremely into a _mesa_. When there's a sharp point on a canine he says one stroke of the rasp is enough. The canines had not been in any way sharp or problematic before (I feel the front teeth regularly when riding, de-worming etc). And then the vet doesn't believe you...what can you do? He was normally a very competent vet, but this dental just didn't work - and even the best of us occasionally make significant mistakes. Greg says it's hard if people won't come and look and see what the problem is, when there is a problem - and all you can do then is vote with your feet and change providers.









_More skull photos in the link earlier in the post_

Well, the horses are doing fine on the carrot test now, and Buzzy has stopped dropping his kibbles. Huge sigh of relief - especially because I now have someone reliable to do teeth again.

And the cost? $75 per horse. Compare that to $200 per horse. Manual dentals without sedation never came to more than $80 even with qualified veterinarians doing them, and used to be standard unless a horse couldn't be induced to behave itself.

Now I can book us in to have our own teeth checked out. Even that's more affordable than a modern horse dental, at $188 a pop last time we had those, and for that they spend a good 20-30 minutes on you, thoroughly going over everything, removing all the calculus, then using a polisher and grit paste over every square millimetre of reachable dental surface, flossing the in-betweens and finishing with a fluoride treatment. Granted there is no sedation required, but it's far more whizz-bang technology than a power grinder and a portable crush. They even have a comfortable reclining chair and state-of-the-art sunglasses for you. 😛


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*MINI SCHOOLING RIDE*

It was another super busy day for me with various farm chores, attic woodwork, maintenance work, gardening etc, but I swore I'd sneak in a little ride and I did, though only a quarter of an hour before sunset!

I've not had time to set up a playground area, but yesterday it occurred to me I could use the Common as a natural playground. It has plenty of clumps of rushes and paperbark trees that I can use for steering practice and to ride circles and slaloms around, and a farm dam with a wall the animals can climb onto, and a little creek in the middle, plus interesting margins with little coves in the bushland we can ride into and out of. So, I actually don't need to set up drums or tyres etc.

_This is the Common - about 8 hectares of meadow with bushland to one side and the main road boundary on the other_.

Time was a bit short this evening, but even ten minutes of something is better than nothing, so I saddled the horse, walked onto the Common with him, and proceeded to have my first ride with nobody else on the place. Jess was barking like mad and I was growling at her while doing some preliminary exercises with Julian before getting on his back - driving him over the saddle, halts, jumping up and down next to him, slapping the saddle to make noise, putting weight in the stirrup, walking a bit more. He was a bit unsettled because it was actually feed time and he clearly thought I should be filling feed buckets instead of going riding with him, hence I rather extended the preliminaries until he was calm and had stopped being grumpy. He probably thought we would do the usual thing and be out for at least half an hour. Once I was on his back I convinced him not to head straight back to the feeding area with me, which was where he clearly thought we should be going. 🙃

When he doesn't want to go where I want him to go, it's just like how it was with Sunsmart in his early training - he stops and tries to head home, and stamps his hind feet when I pull him up, and I play a bit of chess with him until he decides to do what I asked him. Then he is OK. Part of it is confusion about what I want from him as everything is still quite new. Once the horse got going I rode him around a few reeds and then to the back of the house - now that part made sense to him, since we often go up the sand track there when riding or just walking. So he was surprised when instead of heading for the trail, I turned him into a little cove of grass in the bushland and then back out again past some bushes - and then home again! Well, it WAS getting dark, and I still needed to feed. Sometimes it's good to do something unexpectedly short and simple, and then to tell your horse nice things as you take his gear off him. So that's what we did.

Milestone: First completely unaccompanied ride, and first non-trail ride - in a grassed area just navigating. Next time we can go longer, as I will ride in the daytime. There's all sorts of things we can do in the Common - work our way along the bush border and explore all the little hide-outs, coves and animal tracks, as well as navigate around vegetation in the meadow, practice stream crossing etc. And I can do that any day, with nobody else home - the horse normally grazes in this area and is very familiar with it. It will be good practice.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*WALPOLE HIKING DAY*

Since we worked on Thursday, we hiked this fine Saturday instead, heading over to Walpole to attempt the Woolbales Walk Track. It's a 90-minute drive to Walpole, so when you're going there, you start early and try to get a full day in. Accordingly, when it was just warm enough to take the horse rugs off, we left around 9am. For once we didn't stop in Denmark, but broke our drive at Bow Bridge, where they have relatively decent food. I had a sausage roll, which is neither sausage nor roll, in case this food item doesn't feature in your regional cuisine - it's a mixture of sausage meat and grated vegetables (or sawdust and pig fat, according to an old colleague) encased in flaky pastry, and looks in cross-section exactly like your blood vessels will if you consume these regularly for 20 years or so. The Bow Bridge people make really nice versions of these staple English things, and also do a range of toasted Turkish breads, from which Brett chose the BLT version.

Thus fortified, we enjoyed the scenic drive to Walpole, through farmland, forests and heathland, with rugged coastline, brimful rivers and serene inlets regularly in view. The weather was cool and mild. We were heading for the Woolbales Walk Track west of Walpole, which I've had my eye on for over a year - unusual geology, forest, heathland, and we've never done this trail before.

*WOOLBALES WALK TRACK*

The first problem was finding the thing, as it was unmarked. We eventually used our map skills to determine which unmarked track it was, and set out cheerfully into a beautiful day, with the sun making an appearance and birds singing from the trees, and keen to get 3-4 hours of hiking in this magnificent place we had not yet explored.



And just look at this magnificent tree. It's so big you can't really get all of it into frame.


We were imagining that the cluster of monadnocks marked on the map would be a bit like Hanging Rock but on another order of magnitude - and very much looking forward to exploring this area. There's nothing else like it on the South Coast map.

But alas - we got barely over a kilometre down this lovely track, when there was a creek crossing without a bridge, flooding out the track for about 30 metres. This has happened before, like when we didn't get to Boat Harbour last year (and I realise we've now left it too late to go this year) - but this crossing didn't look nearly as deep or muddy, and the water was calm and clear.

So I took off my hiking boots, rolled up my pants and waded in. The water was icy, but after ten seconds or so my brain adjusted and things didn't feel shocking anymore. In fact, I was enjoying the nice clean sandy footing as I crossed over, barely up to my knees in the deepest parts. I was happy with myself on the other side and starting to put my boots back on. But alas, my husband's nervous system is wired up differently to mine, plus he hates wading - never takes his footwear off at the beach, not even in mid-summer - while I splash barefoot in the surf summer or winter alike.

I'll give him credit that he had a go. I encouraged him to channel the little boy he had been when he used to fish for gilgies in his local creek, but he told me he'd always done that in gumboots! He tells me now they only ever swam in the ocean or a swimming pool - never in freshwater, whereas I grew up swimming in freshwater - most notably Lago di Garda in Italy, but also many many other lakes, streams and natural outdoor pools in Italy and Germany - with jelly sandals for dodgy underwater footing. In Australia, where I arrived at age 11, I still literally jumped into anything freshwater, including reservoirs, farm dams and the leech-infested Harvey River, and later, places like Lillian's Glen in the Blue Mountains.

So he didn't get beyond the phase of making shocked noises when wading into the water. If that sounds funny to some of you, he has ASD-1 traits, and is cusp ASD-1 - and that includes sensory hypersensitivities, which actually both of us have, in different ways - but my DNA includes a good dash of Viking, plus I grew up in snow and thoroughly soaked in water, and this is not the case for him. But both of us can't stand clothing labels, little stones in our shoes, grass seeds in our socks, scratchy fabrics, a single toast crumb that accidentally got in the bed sheets, etc. He's highly photosensitive on waking and you'd think he has vampire genes when you see how he responds to sunlight in the early morning. I'm ultra-sensitive to noise, and can't bear normal alarm clocks - everything is turned up about 10-fold when I wake up and I literally get instant nausea if I hear a loud noise (including what others would think is a normal alarm volume) before I am properly awake. So I've got some ASD-1 traits too, but not enough of them to fit comfortably into ASD-1 - I think I've got my very own non-NT-ness (I am who I am), and have never comfortably fitted into any kind of category. You know those quizzes - introvert or extrovert? Well, part-time each. Personality type? Science _or_ arts? No, it's always bits of everything, not one or the other - and actually I think that those boxes are artificial and tell you more about the people who invent them than about reality.

Anyhoo. So we didn't persist with the Woolbales Walk Track, but Brett put it in his digital reminder system for next April along with Boat Harbour and a whole other bunch of things down on the boggy bits of coastal plain.

But there were other things to do, like a long-overdue return visit to Mandalay Beach, where we'd not been since our first visit there in 2008. We hardly ever go this far over on the coast...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I’m very much like that too. I can’t stand the tags, or noises. It was so pretty though!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*MANDALAY BEACH*

We always vowed to return here, because on our first visit 14 years ago it was freezing and a gale was blowing, so that we got sandblasted when we arrived on the actual beach, and had to get off the sand again. I don't think many words are needed for this part, I will let the photos do the talking...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

...and now for two kind-of trick shots...


This is the kind of beach with such strong current and waves that the sand drops off rapidly towards the surf, and with the right angle you can get a fun shot as a result. Also - this is not a beach where people should swim - the rip out there is super strong and fast, not to mention the surf will completely pound you.

But it's a spectacular and beautiful place. I can't tell you how powerful a place that is - everything larger than life and turned up, with the waves churning like the end of the world. We love spending time in places like this.



The dog thinks it's pretty all right too. She lives for our hiking days. I tell her the night before that we're going "broom broom and BIG walkies tomorrow" and she turns her head on an angle and looks at me, then rolls around making joyous noises, paddling her feet in the air and waiting for me to come over and rough-house with her. In the morning she will look expectant and start shepherding us towards the car. It's hilarious. I should film it sometime.








...and the staircase back up...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

On the way back to Walpole, near Crystal Springs, we passed the property of some erstwhile farmstay guests who had relocated their Tiny House from NSW to our South Coast. Their gate was padlocked and nobody was home, so we couldn't say hello as we'd promised to if ever in the area - maybe next time - but you might all enjoy the videos he made of his constructions, and a documentary which featured his place...we'd be doing the same if we were in his generation and trying to get our own place from scratch. Far, far better than renting - not nearly as financially crippling, and actually a really good way to live in terms of ecological footprint, time spent cleaning, setting yourself up financially, having a life not focused on "stuff"...
















Emmet works in Town Planning in Denmark, hoping to make this an option not choked by red tape - and good on him. Fabulous Tiny House he made! Love the special windows and the feel of the place and would far rather live in something like that, than a standard soulless industrial Legoland house.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I love this photo:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Thank you, @tinyliny - I like to layer things in my landscapes shots, and often get the opportunity around here. It's a shame it's a bit blurry - casual telephoto on the run without tripod - but I kept it anyway.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*HOT TEA AND PLAN B*

Next, we descended on the picnic area in Walpole for a snack break and to work out our Plan B. Initially that had been the Nuyts Wilderness Track, but the map showed ominous bridgeless creeks there too...and I didn't want to get stuck again! Besides, I was entering an early-afternoon energy dip, so we revived ourselves with our lovely hot thermoses of tea - hot sweet lemon tea for me, plain for Brett. We had a packet of potato chips for salt, the blurb on which declared they were "double crunchy" - by means of being more corrugated. You know that trick - give someone a sheet of paper, a fork and two tins, and ask them to place the paper between the tins so that it supports the fork? Those who don't head-scratch fold the paper into a concertina, which they place between the tins with the folds running lengthways and there you go, fork supported. So by that principle, extra-corrugated chips also take more force to chew, and that's how it worked out. It was an interesting experiment, but we decided we like chips most for their flavour; crunch is a lower-rating factor for both of us and "ordinary" crunch is fine.


*WALPOLE TO JOHN RATE LOOKOUT*

Plan B was my call, so I opted to walk from where we were to John Rate Lookout along the Bibbulmun Track - a return journey of exactly 12.4 kilometres (7.7 miles). Yellow with black dots on the map!

This was also a hike we had never done before, and turned out a very enjoyable route, even if I did start off in a state where, had there been a bed anywhere, I'd have curled up for an hour's nap before continuing. Gradually, I walked myself into a quasi-awake state, and by the time we hit some hills I was good again.

The first third of the walk was sandwiched between the Walpole Inlet and the fringe of Walpole "suburbia" - which is little dwellings of above-average character and below-average pretentiousness, sitting up on a parkland-cleared ridge above the Inlet. To the left of us was dense riparian vegetation, which obscured the inlet. This is a Paperbark community:


Anything that was not commercially exploitable for timber or agriculture and that's not yet been carved up into real estate has had half a chance of staying natural so far in Western Australia - but sadly this means over 80% of the Southwest was wiped out ecologically in just over 200 years of white colonialism. I wrote about that here if you're interested - our feelings about that underpin why we're on Red Moon Sanctuary doing what we do. We treasure what is left of ancient Gondwana and do what we can to protect it - and we love nothing better than to get out into the as yet unspoilt areas, although it pains us to have to commute out to do it.

The next section involved hills, as you can see from the fringe of Walpole here.

That section was entered over an elegantly curved footbridge.

The rivers are all running very high again this year, but so far we don't have any sign of a repeat of last year's flooding and havoc in our region.


Brett approved of the boardwalks. This prevented having to come up with a Plan C. 

Can you work this one out?



Spoiler



It's taken helicopter view straight down off the bridge and catches tree reflections in the still water. You can spot my hands and the camera in the reflection too! 



The first bit of sustained uphill began traversing bits of the town's golf course, where we soon entered a Casuarina grove.



I understand most of you prefer to do this stuff on horseback, but my husband and I need the exercise more than Julian and Buzzy, so that we can stay in the kind of condition required to take care of them and the whole 62 hectares, and so we don't fall apart more than we have to as we get older. Apart from a bit of arthritis in the hands (which I'm managing OK), things seem to be relatively good in terms of still being able to move freely and efficiently with a combined century between us.

However: Someone (or perhaps more than one person) out there has a voodoo doll of me, I swear, and they sometimes get it out and repeatedly stab random bits of me with a sewing needle, in a systematic and frenzied fashion. Two nights ago they were stabbing my left foot viciously when I was reading in bed. The night before they focused on my right foot and then gave me three prods at knee level before letting up. 😵 Sometimes they dislocate one of my toes and pop it back in again. All of this is especially noticeable in the last decade or so, although they must have begun early, with the tip of my left ring finger repeatedly under attack since I was a teenager. 😬

All righty. As I mentioned before, I woke up by the time we hit the hills, and there was rewarded with wonderful biodiversity, as it usual in the heathland ecosystems between the forested ridges, since they couldn't be exploited for timber or woodchips. Just look at those tall Kingias too - ancient grass trees, hundreds of years old...

Their stems grow 0.5 - 2cm a year, so that tall one standing sentry in the next photo is at least 400.

I'm afraid my feet started to hurt and I put the camera away and increased my speed until we got to the lookout. So no regrowth Karri forest photos today, other than this, even though that's what the last half hour was:

You can just glimpse the coastline through the gap in the trees. Here's a telephoto shot through the gap:

And then there's us, with a time-delay shot I set up from that railing - tucking into apple crumble I'd made the night before from our plentiful summer harvest.

Even the dog got to tuck in. I made cauldrons of spiced apple pie filling in the summer, and froze it in batches for ready use. The crumble topping is a mix of butter, flour, cinnamon, brown sugar and porridge oats. No sugar in the fruit filling and half the recipe's suggestion (but four times the cinnamon) in the topping. Tastes out-of-this-world, even cold.

You can see Brett had a foot-bothering too - he says one sock had folded funny. 🤪

On the way back the sun made a late-afternoon reappearance and bathed us in the kind of golden sunlight you can _eat_...




Ah, intact ecosystems - how do I love thee. This is the world as it was before we destroyed it for excessive gain. This is the place that teaches me the truth about the dysfunctional system that eats the world for profit and to have more than our fair share in the catalogue of living things. This is the cathedral in which I understand the smallness of myself, the unthinkingness and sacrileges of our civilisation, and the cancer we "modern people" have become collectively. This is where I understand the wisdom of the Indigenous Australians who lived here for over 60,000 years without destroying the fabric of country, stewarding and treading lightly, limiting their own numbers and not taking more than they needed.

This hiking report was brought to you from _Noongar boodja_ - Noongar country, where the Minang roamed freely for over 30,000 years and from whom and whose country we try to learn stewardship of the earth.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Wonderful pictures. What an amazing place. I'm so glad I got to share in it!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*HOORAY, IT'S HAY*

We usually don't buy in hay as we grow a lot of tree fodder to tide us through the winter feed/roughage gap (with Acacia) and the summer green gap (with tagasaste AKA tree lucerne), and we don't overstock.

Some Murray Grey heifers eating mid-winter Acacia for roughage, 2017...

A lot of the tagasaste is self-serve over the fences for the horses, who are kept from bark-stripping by judicious placement of hot wires - you can see they trim the sides of the hedge themselves (and cows can't do that because they lack top incisors and have short necks).

I lop of the tops and feed them out to all our herbivores during late summer - here's some photos from 2018:


Just very occasionally, we have gotten in some hay to plug a little hole; and because the Acacias are coming to the end of their productive lives and I can't replant any until I get the fencing in the "inner" paddocks upgraded (AKA cow-proof), I decided just to buy eight roundbales this year, mostly for the cattle - I'm running eight steers at the moment, which is pretty close to full capacity. (The donkeys always get straw through winter because they need extra roughage.)

The hay arrived today, just over $100 a bale delivered, and I took photos after the first batch got in. The donkeys, who have an unerring instinct for food, twigged straight away and were helping themselves before we'd even finished unloading the first four. When the hay grower went back for the second load, I rolled out a third of a bale and attracted the attention of the cattle, who have never seen a roundbale on our place and therefore seemed oblivious to the arrival of food. They were so wrapped up in grazing I literally had to go get the pole saw and run it, because they know that sound means food - and _then_ they came running!

I got my camera out shortly after to capture the banquet.



Have a good look at the above photo - there's a steer with hay all over his face. This is Mr Moo, who is very tame and very exuberant. Instead of just eating, he had to bury his face in the bale and wear his food. 

Mr Moo's lot of four is coming up to 18 months old, and we also have another four around 10 months old, like the two in the foreground. We buy them from the same people who deliver our fresh milk and cream to our mailbox each Tuesday - in the age of corporatisation, we want to support that now rare thing, an actual small family-run dairy farm with reasonable animal welfare standards where the person I deal with is besotted with her cows. No middle men are involved in any of our transactions, and we make sure to pay a fair price to the family.

You can see the horses are comfortable mucking right in with the cattle. Because they always arrive as weanlings, the horses are the unchallenged kings of the castle from the beginning.

Neither horses have any trouble with carrots or kibbles anymore after Greg did their teeth last week - and Mr Buzzy is happily processing his hay with one molar missing but everything else vouched to be in great shape. Such good news.

Mr Moo is to the right of Buzzy there - you can see he has a lot of character. He'd be the right candidate for a circus cow or a novelty showjumping cow - occasionally you get one with a super-curious, super-sociable disposition.

Julian didn't strictly need hay, but it's good for his digestion to have something with more roughage and substance than the winter-wet grass. Growth slows down during the coldest part of winter here, which is July and August, when the frosts also hit us, which kills some of the kikuyu (African runner grass) - the mainstay of our summer pasture. By late September/October, as the weather warms, we start to get the spring flush of annual ryegrass, clover, serradella, lotus etc.


Nelly and Ben are afraid of cattle and like to eat at a good distance from them.

Julian is completely unimpressed by the size of cattle when he's eating with them - he lets them know he's defending his space and only has to snake-face a huge steer to get him to jump back. 

His mother Juliet killed a sheep once - just stripped half its skin right off it in seconds - it had to be put down immediately, which is one good reason for people to have firearms in the countryside, or to know someone who does, because you want to be quick if something terrible like that happens. Juliet was silent and deadly, and her son is the same. The steers know that if they don't jump back from his snakeface, he will rush straight at them with his teeth bared looking to bite.

And yet they're exactly the same cattle we met in the bush the other day when out riding, where he got spooked by them making crashing noises in the bushes! 🥳

Next we have a photo of Don Quixote with Nelly and Benjamin, just before I whipped his grazing muzzle back on him. I did let him have a little bit of fun first so he wouldn't feel completely left out.

By the way, Don Quixote never gets pushed around by cattle - he stands with his rear to them and starts kicking like crazy and snorting to defend his space. I suspect that is how Buzzy got the mystery dent in his forehead back in 2017.

Buzzy playing musical piles to compare eating quality...

It's getting cold at night, which is why I was anxious to get some solid feed into these young cattle. Dairy steers are always ribby until they have grown their frames to full size, but a stomach full of substantial food will help them stay warm during the worst part of winter, and also provide a fair bit of organic fertiliser to the Common. Each bale is around 500kg, so that's a lot of manure going down.

The younger batch especially, like the two in front, are going to appreciate this.

As Sparkle is blind and very small, I don't tend to put her in with boisterous steers - she and Mary Lou got their own pile in the driveway.

I gave Mary Lou another clip this summer. No idea what I'm going to do with the bags and bags of clumpy donkey fur I've collected from her over the years!

Everyone's super happy out there. I have been sneezing, as I got covered in hay myself, and am off to have a shower and wash my hair before returning to chores!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*JULIET AND JULIAN*

I mentioned Julian's mother Juliet above. This is a photo from when we were harness educating her. I was 15 and in high school.








The mare went on to win 7 races, and get 6 runner-ups and 4 third places. Her fastest recorded mile was 1:58:5, which was very respectable for a pacer in those days.

Romeo was her full brother.

Julian was fast and won 2 races, got 2 runner-ups and 2 third places. He had a virus at some stage and was never quite the same for peak performance, and it also didn't help that unlike Juliet and the earlier batch of horses he was hardly ever track-trained with other horses, mostly only trialling and racing with them. As a result, he was green around running at close quarters to others and broke gait a lot - and this was not the horse's fault, this was an under-preparation problem with all horses my father trained post the 1980s, and especially post-90s. Julian best mile rate was 1:59:4, on a slower track than his mother's record.

I've been going through the archives. Here's some photos I dug up from 2007, the year I met Brett. He came to a trial once and therefore I have pictures of Julian and me at the Pinjarra Trotting Track from the year he turned 7.
















Little did I expect that one day I would be riding him.

I also dug up some photos from early 2010, when Brett and I had just returned from Tasmania and had stopped by the relatives en route back to Albany - and six months later we bought our little farm. That is why we caught another trial, even though we find races and racing rather boring. Julian is 9 here.








































This is just during the warm-up. Still, I thought why not dig through and see what I can find in our archive. There could be all sorts of stuff that might be interesting to look at again...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Mr Moo does seem to have all the personality! Julian is looking really handsome too.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FRIDAY MORNING RIDE*

Because it's almost been another week since the last ride, and Brett was off to see his parents for the first time in two years for a long weekend, he decided to go around the valley floor with me and Julian and Jess just before jumping in the car for the four-hour journey. It was some exercise for everyone - me doing the least work there, but I had the house cleaning and washing to go pre hosting over the weekend!

I just wanted to have a solid half hour of routine riding again before doing some planned brakes-and-steering sessions in the Common on my own over the next three days, so the horse would be in the groove. I led him out past the hay everyone else was descending on when we opened the Common gate, because that was already enough of a case of "Why does everyone else get to do this except me?" without me trying to convince him to go past the lolly shop from his back. Much distraction and then praise when we got around the corner, where I hopped on the horse while Brett went back to get the dog from sofa in the house where we'd forgotten her. There was no fuss about mounting and no sense of surprise either - this is good.

Jess barked and barked and barked as we walked along and I told her off periodically, which always worked for about ten seconds before she was off again - gets so excited. At the end of the sand track she stopped suddenly to look at something right in front of the horse and he cannoned into her accidentally, which lead to a yelp from her and panicked running, which in turn led to a spook from Julian, but nothing major, I just circled him once and then things were back to normal. The dog was still in one piece and not limping. I think he got her in the right hind leg because she was licking it later on the sofa. Hopefully she will learn not to stop dead immediately in front of a horse again. She does it with us on bushwalks too every now and then, and we almost fall over her.

Today we just rode an uneventful walking lap in which I didn't ask for any halting until we got back to the pile of hay at home, but I did do some steering to one side of the track or the other, and around various bushes and reeds once we got to the middle meadow. He was in a bit of a rush on the swamp track after Jess dived into the undergrowth for a minute or two crackling like nobody's business, and would have readily trotted had wanted him to, but I discouraged it because I'm determined to trot him when moving away from home, not towards home, for the first dozen or so times until we understand each other and get clean trot-walk down transitions established.

When we reached Scary Brook, he didn't do an almighty dramatic leap over it like his half-brother Sunsmart, an inveterate hydrophobe, used to do - he just stepped over it, even getting his hooves wet in the creek margins without much ado. We halted two metres from a pile of hay - the halt-dismount thing he always does beautifully, and I'm glad because he was the sort of horse who might have easily become a dismount-spooker, owing to an accident he has with a half-removed rug a few years ago - he'd run off with it half undone, rocketing through the field until it was torn to pieces. It took me 18 months to have him lose every last bit of nervousness about having his rug removed after that accident - always had to tie him at first after that, and fold the front section over the middle and the back section forwards and take it off like a saddle, and I still can't just pull the rug straight off him without folding it up first, but at least he stands calmly at liberty for me to do that for the last few months, with or without carrot.

If you'd seen how fast he moved from zero to one hundred the day he tried to run away from his flapping blanket, you'd also have been super careful not to startle this horse with mounting and dismounting in the early saddle training. That's why I worked slowly with lots of repetition, and super careful not to bump my right leg into his side during a mount, or to drag my leg over his hindquarter on the dismount. Fishing for the right stirrup on the first few mounts, I had to be really careful - he was very reactive to any sudden contact from the stirrup or my foot. He's the most reactive horse to things like that I've ever saddle educated - Sunsmart was very ticklish about brushes and grooming, but surprised rather than startled by things like stirrups or feet accidentally bumping into him when he was just starting out his saddle education.

But in other ways he's really sensible, and he's quite cooperative if you ask him nicely.  Also he's getting very interactive with me straight after the dismount, when I take his gear off - we really acknowledge each other and the work we've just done together. He looks happy, not because he's finished with the ride but because we've done something adventurous together that he doesn't do on his own. He took some time to stand and hobnob with me, no food or expectations of carrots involved, after all his gear was off and he knew he was at liberty, rather than diving straight into the pile of hay two metres away from where I untacked him in the Common. And as always, after I'd carried the gear to the shed and re-appeared into view on our driveway, he lifted his head up from his food and looked to see what I was doing. I called to him and waved in greeting. We held eye contact for a good while, then I left him to it and went indoors.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*SARS-COV-2 IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA AND PRECAUTIONS IN OUR HOUSEHOLD*

@TrainedByMares asked me about COVID precautions for our farmstay, remarking it would be a shame if someone brought us something we didn't want.  It's good to know some people care about public health. For my own records, and because a friend sent me a funny graphic that I think goes with it, here's a copy of my reply to him!

As people have the option of eating with us, which means being in shared indoors spaces for meals, we do have to be careful with infectious diseases. Until March this year we didn't have community transmission of COVID in Western Australia, with very strict border and quarantine rules. 90% of our community was double vaccinated when the border opened in March, but the vaccines we have are based on the Alpha strain, and only offer partial protection for Omicron, and while it does decrease the risk of severe illness and death, doesn't prevent nearly as much long COVID as we would like, with 1 in 20 here getting long COVID after infection, and also a new study showing you can catch Omicron repeatedly and it seems to progressively weaken the immune system with each infection, potentially ending with an HIV-like state, so we really aren't keen to catch this, not to mention I am in a high-risk group because I have a paralysed vocal cord which makes me susceptible to complications from any kind of respiratory infection.

So Brett and I have had two boosters already since our initial two shots last year, and we wear N-95s when in shared indoor spaces with others, or in any crowd situations. House rules are people can't check in with any kind of active respiratory infection and if that happens to a guest I will re-book them later or refund them. Masks in shared spaces except when seated (but not in the guest wing or outdoors). We do social distancing at the table but have a big table where that is not an issue, and we still have great fun with most of our guests - anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers and other deluded or inconsiderate people are not encouraged to book with us.

If there's only one guest staying we waive the mask requirement if we all do an antigen test. My next guest works at a hospital and antigen tests every 48 hours anyway so we'll probably just do that.

Since mask mandates were removed here a month or so ago, hospitalisations have doubled and medical spokespeople are daily calling for their re-introduction, with which we fully agree. We went shopping this afternoon, and I got coughed on at close range by a maskless woman making no attempt at all to stay away from me or cover her cough - not impressed. While I was wearing an N-95, they aren't perfect and my eyes were exposed, so if I catch anything I will know whom to thank. Minutes later we saw a clearly very sick maskless old guy wheezing and sneezing all over the contents of the meat refrigerator and spreading his contagion far and wide. We brought him to the attention of management, who were wearing masks themselves and lamented that while there weren't mask mandates there was little they could do other than ask people nicely.

It's a bit different in the medical practices, hospitals and aged care, where masks can still be enforced. The surgery my husband works at is very strict and keeps anyone with respiratory infections in their cars to be seen there. Masks on everyone in the building at all times. The other day two people walked in maskless and declared they had COVID - to the astonishment of the desk staff, who handed them masks, ushered them out of the building, and disinfected surfaces immediately. They had just been shopping maskless. Every day over 50 people in Australia are dying of this thing and hundreds are getting chronic illness from it, and a proportion of people can't be bothered to wear masks to protect themselves and others, let alone stay home when coughing and sneezing - this is why we need mandates re-introduced. It gives me a very low opinion of people if they can't care enough for fellow citizens and struggling hospital staff to do something as simple as wear a mask and wear it properly. The new incoming strain of Omicron is as contagious as measles and one person in a crowd can spread it to dozens of others.

This is simply information about the situation here and what we do, and personal journalling. It is not an invitation for arguments or commentary on this situation on my journal. My guest this weekend works in early childhood education at a hospital creche and is meticulous about good practice around this mutating virus. We both did an antigen test today and therefore didn't wear masks, but we still socially distanced etc, and we'd let each other know immediately if there was even the hint of respiratory symptoms for either of us, and mask up again just in case - since early infection stages can be missed by the antigen tests. Western Australia is at a critical stage. Case numbers are exploding because mask mandates were removed, and the new extra-infectious strains haven't even really hit here yet. We may eventually get an Omicron-specific vaccine, but by then chances are the virus will be one step ahead.

From my perspective as a biologist, this is just what you'd expect at our population densities and rates of international mixing. Disease becomes more rife as pressures on the environment increase. If humans won't use their brains in appropriate ways to regulate themselves, nature is going to do what we will not sooner or later. Call it Gaia and self-regulation. We've become a cancer on the body that is the biosphere, destroying functional tissues and organs necessary for the health of this body. Which way will it go? Very few people think even slightly outside the familiarity of their own experience and the smallness of our own lives, societies and world views. This is our undoing. As some people have commented, maybe we are the plague and SARS is the cure. Didn't have to be this way, but hey, didn't have to be lots of things. Sapiens, as a species we are not.

And now for the graphic a friend sent, and told me later he'd nearly not sent... 










...by the way, the horse seems to have the more comfortable option!  Those old-style N-95s are so uncomfortable. We used to use standard surgical masks, but now use Proshield N-95s which are super comfortable, soft around the face but have a proper seal, and easy to breathe through because they have an air reservoir.








They project out from the face a bit, so it's a bit Donald-Ducky, and we will say "quack" to each other and touch "beaks" for fun around other people. But it's really not an issue for us to wear these in indoors public areas or crowds - a very small inconvenience not just for our own safety, but for the safety of vulnerable members of our community, many of which are getting debilitated and dying catching this illness.

Maybe these masks should come with I LOVE YOUR GRANDMA printed on them.

By the way - these N-95 are re-usable for up to a year unless they get damaged or really dirty. We simply have two masks each which we alternate - mask A is worn while mask B hangs on the clothes line to catch some UV; next day vice versa. This also cuts down on plastic waste. When we're done with a mask eventually, we incinerate it in our wood fire.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*YOUR COW PATS ARE ON FIRE*

Ever heard of mansplaining? The most outstanding example I've personally experienced in recent years was when I called up our local volunteer fire chief because we had a peat fire, and requested the fire truck to put it out. We both volunteer at the bushfire brigade, but the chief has to sign off on equipment use. What happened is in the aftermath of burning off our valley floor, which we did with various crews in attendance because it had gone too long unburnt and was too big to manage with traditional methods, one crew had back-burnt through a bit of peatland, and then not extinguished the peat fire that resulted (which is underground, a couple of inches below the sand - it's a typical valley floor soil type here).

And because I'm female, he was very sceptical. Can I talk to your husband? No, he's not here (and why the heck do you think he'd know more about it than me?). Umm. Aaah. I'll pop over later to have a look myself, before I authorise the truck.

Aargh. So he turns up, I show him the peat fire, and he says to me, "Sue, that's just a couple of cow pats on fire. This happens."

He's one of those people who think men automatically know more than women about anything technical, just by virtue of being men. So I've got a fire chief in the paddock with me over a peat fire, and he's telling me it's just cow pats on fire. You couldn't make this up.

So I tried to explain to him what a peat fire is. When he still looked at me like I was some kind of lunatic, I mentioned that I had done an extensive soil survey in the catchment just north of us back in the 1990s, professionally employed and paid to do so, and had described and mapped the soil types, and published the findings, and that this was a really common valley floor soil which consisted of a layer of acid sand (pH about 4-4.5) over peat, and peat is flammable and burns underground for months unless put out (like it is in Siberia since global warming), that made no impression on him at all. It's just cow pats on fire, Sue.

So I sighed, picked up the mobile phone, called Noel our neighbour who understands our soil types and is in the brigade too, and said, "Noel, we have a peat fire, the fire chief is standing here telling me I have cow pats on fire, he won't believe me, we need a fire truck, would you mind coming over and talking to him?"

Noel turned up, and said, "Sue's right, this is peat soil, we have it at our place, it can burn for months, we need to put it out." And the fire chief says, "Well, I've never heard of that before!" but then he got the fire truck, and we put out the fire.

My current guest thinks we need to educate males about mansplaining because it's so culturally ingrained. As is whitesplaining. And yes, all sorts of people say all sorts of stupid things, but some types are so statistically frequent that they now have terms attached to them.

While I don't mind comment here on people's personal experiences with such stuff, I'm not interested in having an argument about the existence or otherwise of mansplaining and whitesplaining. Brett and I both see this going on all the time - if anyone has an ideological objection to those ideas, then your own journals are the space to express them, not mine.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)




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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*SOCIABLE SUNDAY EXCURSIONING ON FOOT*

Yesterday it rained cats and dogs, so much so that the horses didn't come back from the Common at night for feed time - they stayed in the forest behind the house with the donkeys, where the ground doesn't get soggy. First thing this morning I went looking for them, and persuaded them to come home. So the evening feed became the morning feed, after which I took the heavy, saturated rugs off and the horses went and snoozed in the shelter.

We ended up with such a sunny Sunday afternoon that I decided to do something adventurous with Julian. Riding on the Common was out of the question - the place was saturated. Lightbulb moment - let's just do a leisurely equine excursion on foot and see who wants to come along.

So I put a halter on Julian (no bribes), called the equines and opened the Common gate. Out we all went, and I called encouragement to the rest of the herd to follow us. Everyone came along, except Don Quixote AKA Rotundo the Wonder Donkey, who elected to stay with the cattle and the hay bale. 🐷

I had no camera today but can reconstitute the general ideas for you with other photographs.

This is similar to what it looked like at the start:

...excepting that the dark donkey wasn't there, but all the others were. Chasseur was directly behind us, then Mary Lou (our asinine Einstein 💡) and Sparkle (who is blind but best friends with Mary Lou), then Ben and Nelly. After a while there was some attrition, and the order was as follows: Jess the Kelpie, Julian and myself, Chasseur, Mary Lou, Sparkle.

The six of us went walking companionably up the sand track. This was an exploration walk so I encouraged Julian to put his nose on the ground and on anything else he wanted to check out up close. He taste tested a few different plants, sniffed some manure piles from various species, nosed around the ground and vegetation, and stood looking at various views. Sometimes I had to move him on so Sparkle wouldn't accidentally walk into the back of him. Mary Lou looked out very well for her, positioning her body strategically between Sparkle and a few obstacles she might otherwise have walked into, like a fallen log - and I told her what a good girl she was for doing that for Sparkle. People don't see these things unless they spend a lot of time around animals in natural settings.

Near the end of the sand track, Chasseur decided to head back to the pasture, and then it was Jess, Julian and me, Mary Lou and Sparkle. We tried turning right up the hill at the south gate, but the donkeys voted to go left, so eventually we decided to follow them, even though this meant we would all have to make our way through puddles and the much-expanded Boggy Patch. I hopped from reed base to reed base to rock after the donkeys, quickly enough not to get in too deep with my hiking boots to cause wet socks. Julian tagged along; he's usually fine with water now.

Turning into the swamp track, the view Julian and I had was very like this (it's the exact place), except we didn't have the dark donkey with us:






I took the halter off my horse now, so he could walk freely in the group - Mary Lou and Sparkle heading up, us following. This looked a bit like:

...except that the horse and I walked next to each other most of the way. Occasionally he stopped and sniffed something, and I turned around after a few metres and waited for him to catch up. Sometimes I looked with him. I spent some time scratching his head and ears, and also draping my arm across his neck or back (and sometimes scratching the base of his mane) as we walked along, while he made friendly faces.

Once we got into the Middle Meadow, there was strawberry clover to be had. I was being as equine-style-companionable as possible, stopping within cooee of him when he grazed and getting down on my haunches whenever he was busy with a patch of clover.

He wasn't wearing a halter, of course, and these photos were taken behind the house.


It's interesting experiencing the world from an equine perspective. I went around with Mary Lou, Sparkle and Julian as they ambled up the meadow grazing, positioned as Julian's grazing buddy, like Chasseur usually is. It's a very peaceful life down there with the grasses and other vegetation and the bushes all around with birds singing and insects buzzing, with the lovely smells of plants and the sun warm on your skin; and of course we're not in a boring place, like a square fenced field - we're in varied terrain; little meadows between bushland, and 8 hectares of grazing along the road, on the Common side of our driveway. It's certainly different from the 100x20 metre solitary-confinement strip of double-electric-fenced sand Julian lived in for 17 years in his daytimes. In November he will have lived with us for 5 years.

I spent another 10 minutes with them, but then had to get back to some other work. Julian stayed with Mary Lou and Sparkle on the other side of Scary Brook to eat the clover there, and I snuck home with the dog.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Wonderful song from a wonderful band - this song is nearly 40 years old, and this band won the NME Best Live Act a couple of years ago when they were all around 60 (except their drummer, who's about a decade younger and also does charity triathlons). Totally well deserved award - these people are riveting live, better than ever - and they perform much like a string quartet, rather than a rock band.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC, fortunately the amount of mansplaining I’ve had to endure in the recent past is fairly minimal given a civilized lovely husband and mostly female managers and colleagues. But I saw this earlier today and thought it might give you a giggle.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@egrogan, thank you for that! 😁

Thankfully, like yourself, I am married to an egalitarian who identifies himself as a feminist, and I do not have this trouble with him. We have an egalitarian relationship where we each learn from the other. He wouldn't presume to mansplain science to me, or anything else I'm super qualified in (or to mansplain to anyone, full stop), which doesn't mean he can't query a point or offer critiques of certain things that are a bit fuzzy, but then my husband himself is incredibly well versed and continuously self-educating in science, philosophy and literature and far more qualified than the average citizen to offer such critiques. The thing about him is that he understands his own limitations very well - he does a lot of metacognition, and considering different perspectives - and also he understands (actually understands from knowing me) which areas I understand better than he does (and vice versa), and because of that he often comes to me with, "I've got a science question for you!" - and my answer to him will also extend into epistemology and etymology, and with something complex, where the fuzzy bits still are and why, and various alternative hypotheses around that.

And of course, equally I'll go to him with, "I've got an IT question for you / a graphic design question for you / a question about film and media / about this particular Shakespeare play you've read / etc etc etc." And he'll also ask me about geology, geography, animal-related things, literature, philosophy, mathematics, farm management. Basically we know where we can augment each other and what areas the other has a lot of depth in that we can dive into with them. And we love the interactions, and grow from them as people.

That's a level of discussion I can only get into with colleagues who are still open learners and don't think they have "arrived", or people like my husband with a lot of background understanding and a very broad and deep self-education, or with really bright and open students I had at university and later at high school. It is not something that can generally be found in internet discussions. It's also not something you can ever find with people who subscribe to inherited and often medieval world views, religious fundamentalists who think ultimate truth about the physical world is found in "holy books", or people whose cognitive biases blinker them because they don't seriously engage in metacognition. And obviously there's Dunning-Kruger Effect. So on the internet, there's a lot of hot air which the people engaging in seem to think is somehow rarefied and intelligent and profound, and it's just hot air.










A bit more about mansplaining, since it's topical. Definitions:

..."to comment on or explain something to a woman in a condescending, overconfident, and often inaccurate or oversimplified manner". Author Rebecca Solnit ascribed the phenomenon to a combination of "overconfidence and cluelessness" (from the Wikipedia entry)

_..."Mansplaining_ is, at its core, a very specific thing. It's what occurs when a man talks condescendingly to someone (especially a woman) about something he has incomplete knowledge of, with the mistaken assumption that he knows more about it than the person he's talking to does." (from the Merriam-Webster entry)

Mansplaining happens a ton to highly qualified women, and the men doing it often either get even more mansplainy after it's pointed out to them, or they think there's something wrong with the woman (because it's not _them_, is it) like they're "too sensitive" or "taking this the wrong way" or "my intentions were noble" or "I've got freedom of speech" or "You can't handle it when I disagree" etc etc etc. Only rarely do mansplainers think about what they're doing, realise it's their bad, and genuinely try to change their habits - although sometimes it can happen, and then that's great. I guess giving up mansplaining is a bit like giving up smoking - a hard habit to kick.

But do you reckon that our fire chief went away from the experience I related in Your Cow Pats Are On Fire, thinking, "Oh, I learnt something today, I shouldn't have said that, and I need to do some serious thinking about how I interact with people?" I don't think so. For one thing he did not apologise to me or even acknowledge remotely he'd been idiotic and condescending and wasted my time and my neighbour's, and for another, he's still a condescending posterior orifice every time we run into him, which is as little as possible if we can help it. And just for supplementary information, although this has never come up in conversation between him and us, he belongs to a fundamentalist religious group known as the "Free Reformed" who are "flat-earthers" scientifically and theologically (Biblical literalism, "young earth", superstitions about evil spirits, ban Harry Potter because it's occult etc, male entitlement as doctrine, trying to prescribe their ultra-conservative and socially unjust Sharia Law-equivalent on everyone else in society who does not belong to their group or share their views, if they could see their way to do it, etc). Here's some information about religious narcissism, which has interesting reader comments as well - because it is so interesting how many core mansplaining / whitesplaining offenders are also religious fundamentalists.

More information here:









Mansplaining, explained in one simple chart


Kim Goodwin was asked to help some colleagues tell if they were being helpful or condescending. So she created a simple chart – which went unexpectedly viral.




www.bbc.com













6 Subtle Forms Of Mansplaining That Women Encounter Each Day


We’ve had some high-profile cases of “mansplaining” in the last year, perhaps most notably in a September episode of Project Greenlight, when Matt Damon “explained” diversity to a black female film producer, Effie Brown. (Yes, a thousand heads hit a…




www.bustle.com






A few fun examples:

_“I’m an attorney, and I practised family law for a while. I had a male client who not only mansplained his cheating on his wife, he also wanted to explain to me how family law (particularly, child support and spousal support, of course) work in my state. And he was dead wrong. And I told him so and showed him the relevant statutes. And he got ****'y and asked for his retainer back because clearly I didn’t know what I was doing. 

So I showed him in our contract where he signed acknowledging his understanding that the retainer was non-refundable. He then wanted to explain to me why that wasn’t legal. So I told him to get out of my office and find another attorney to sue me for the retainer if he wanted it back. Never heard from that guy again. His ex-wife’s attorney totally took him to the cleaner’s, and I loled.”


“I have a degree in Biochemistry and I invented and published a new method for measuring lifespan in these cells I work with. While setting up to run a tutorial session on how to do it, one of the male students started to ‘Correct me’ and explain how to use the method.

Which I invented.

And was literally there to teach him.”_










from 25 Exasperating Examples of Mansplaining


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm not fond of either 'Mansplaining' . . or . . "Mansplaying". Know what I mean?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

My husband isn’t like that. He does explain things to me that have me glazed over, so I try to rarely ask mechanical questions. I’m just not interested in mechanical things, and he knows it. If I ask though, he gets excited to explain and I zone out, even if I try and listen! I think it’s often too far over my head. It’s just not something I grasp easily. I’m like, “but yes, why does that work from earlier than that,” and then it’s like I want to know why gasoline is combustible and how that combustion stays so small, and those are questions he just answers with because it does, and I am lost again. lol 

It goes both ways though. He’s no good at math. So, he’ll ask me a question and totally regret it. His eyes get that glazed look, I’m all “it’s not hard! You’re over complicating it. Just watch again,” and then he’s like “do you want me to explain how the combustible engine works again,” and I’m like “that’s different! This is simple. Just look!” Then he says “the engine is simple!” We go rounds and I never have been able to teach him a single math concept.

What it comes down to, is I do the math and he fixes the engines. I can grease and service the equipment, fix what I know how to fix, and beyond that it’s up to him.

When it comes to normal things, I think we just rely on each other.

I don’t think I’ve ever been mansplained to myself, but I rarely see people. I also rarely have conversations with other humans. If I have been, it was intentional and looking to get a reaction.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> I'm not fond of either 'Mansplaining' . . or . . "Mansplaying". Know what I mean?


Yeah, I do. And I can't see your facial expression here. Everyone has the right to set boundaries on what they will and will not engage with. If you're accusing me of "mansplaying" (for which you have reliable form in your PMs to me over the years) you're really off the mark on this one, and a ton of people who know and work with me IRL would beg to disagree with you - always worked with people, always had a lot of feedback, including in my current work, the reviews for which are in the public domain.

It's kind of interesting, because I am having this discussion in various places online and IRL at the moment, and it comes up again and again that a typical retort to women who object to mansplaining and are maintaining their own boundaries and being part of the public discussion about it is that they are "mansplaying" - and then we could get into how women are a part of the misogyny equation, which they are. It's so much easier for some to just work within those parameters.

If it was just an innocent comment, fine.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

In the Pac NW, "Mansplaying" means when a guy sits with his legs wide apart so you feel you need to avert your eyes.
Urban Dictionary: mansplay


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

OK, @gottatrot - I hope to be wrong on this one. We call that one "manspreading" here. As opposed to "playing the man" - or hectoring others - or riding moral high horses.

Thanks heaps for the clarification.  I don't like manspreading either, and I think there's a strong positive correlation between manspreading and mansplaining.

If it was an innocent offhand comment, I apologise, @tinyliny. Prior context suggested it would be naive of me to think that was the only reading.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

SueC said:


> OK, @gottatrot - I hope to be wrong on this one. We call that one "manspreading" here. As opposed to "playing the man" - or hectoring others - or riding moral high horses.
> 
> Thanks heaps for the clarification.  I don't like manspreading either, and I think there's a strong positive correlation between manspreading and mansplaining.


DH recently had an appointment with a Physician's Assistant. We were crowded in a very small room with the guy who was wearing extremely tight pants and mansplaying. Both of us had nowhere good to look, so we felt awkward. The guy was soft spoken, had a fancy first name I doubt he was born with so probably gay, but quite the mansplayer/manspreader. He also had quite the manscaping going on (which is our term for extremely groomed hair and beard) LOL.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@gottatrot, have you ever seen the film _Labyrinth_? With David Bowie in his tights? Honestly, you don't know where to look. I've exchanged notes on that with other music fans, and one hypothesis - you know, when we said, "How could they not be aware of that in the editing suite?" - was that they were very much aware of it, and that probably it was intended to appeal to the mothers of the children watching the movie...well, the ones who are into that kind of thing... 

PS: Manscaping - love it! 🤣


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Knave said:


> My husband isn’t like that. He does explain things to me that have me glazed over, so I try to rarely ask mechanical questions.


🤣 With Brett it is nitty-gritty IT stuff which to him is as easy as breathing. Sometimes I have to say, "Whoa, stop right there, I need two cups of coffee first and then you can try to explain it to me _slowly_ - and I still can't guarantee you that I will get it!"




Knave said:


> I’m just not interested in mechanical things, and he knows it.


Yeah, I'm voraciously interested in so, so many different subjects - and mechanics isn't one of them...my brain just stalls. Unfortunately Brett feels the same way about that, so we have a lot of expensive outsourcing on our farm, and we don't have your husband or @TrainedByMares for a neighbour that we could perhaps barter labour with...

I feel almost the same negative-numbers lack of interest about accounting, but when we registered a business, someone had to do it, and I have higher pain tolerance than my husband. But honestly, this comedy clip about accounting and dealing with the tax department re business tax is _so exactly_ how I felt in the first two years:






🤣🤣🤣




Knave said:


> If I ask though, he gets excited to explain and I zone out, even if I try and listen!


With some subjects, when Brett has to listen to them, he says he will imagine flowers growing out of the heads of the speakers as a coping mechanism, before belatedly extracting himself from the situation... like when he first met my mother...and she monologued him for over an hour while I was somewhere else...




Knave said:


> I think it’s often too far over my head. It’s just not something I grasp easily. I’m like, “but yes, why does that work from earlier than that,” and then it’s like I want to know why gasoline is combustible and how that combustion stays so small, and those are questions he just answers with because it does, and I am lost again. lol


I think apart from giving me tension headaches by default, my comparative lack of understanding of that subject is also honestly through a visceral lack of interest in the subject. Perhaps if my life depended on it - but it's great when people can outsource various things to each other. Brett will outsource the maths and accounting to me, and I never have to do the dishes when he's around (even though I will sneak in and do them when he's not looking at least once a week).




Knave said:


> It goes both ways though. He’s no good at math. So, he’ll ask me a question and totally regret it. His eyes get that glazed look, I’m all “it’s not hard! You’re over complicating it. Just watch again,” and then he’s like “do you want me to explain how the combustible engine works again,” and I’m like “that’s different! This is simple. Just look!” Then he says “the engine is simple!” We go rounds and I never have been able to teach him a single math concept.


My husband is like that with maths. He has dyscalculia. The mere confrontation with something like long division or calculating volumes or algebra causes him to get dead-mackarel eyes instantly, and he tells me that it feels like fingers down the blackboard to him inside. He says it's just the worst feeling...😋

So he was going to be a non-starter for doing the business accounting and tax, but he does all of our IT maintenance, software upgrading, ad blocking, debugging etc etc etc.




Knave said:


> What it comes down to, is I do the math and he fixes the engines. I can grease and service the equipment, fix what I know how to fix, and beyond that it’s up to him.


That sounds like an excellent arrangement. 



Knave said:


> I don’t think I’ve ever been mansplained to myself, but I rarely see people. I also rarely have conversations with other humans. If I have been, it was intentional and looking to get a reaction.


Well, that's one way to reduce the incidence of mansplaining!  (And similar behaviours from women, which can also happen, but not quite at the same rate statistically - I mean, from women it's mostly Dunning-Kruger when they do it, and sometimes just gross toxicity.)

If you want to imagine mansplaining - it's like you go to some city where you take some tiny relative to pony rides while their non-riding father explains to you exactly what you should be doing...(he saw it on the movies / the internet / read it somewhere / a knowledgeable friend told him / his pastor said)


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*MEANDERINGS ON MUSIC AND APPRECIATING THE WORK OF OTHERS*

Music is one of my favourite things about life, and communication with others, so if I'm gonna journal anywhere, and stick around, this is going to crop up in my discussions, and of course I wouldn't expect anyone not interested to read that. It's just that the interest on that in the group here present has not been zero, so why not, and also because when I do personal journalling, wherever I do it, I do it for my own pleasure and to explore, and it doesn't matter who reads it and who doesn't.

Having said that, I also found when open journalling specifically on music in various places online, that people came out of the woodwork and wrote posts and PMs to tell me that they were happy to find such non-mainstream, thoughtful writing on their favourite music, which didn't engage (except metacognitively, as a phenomenon) in the typical potshots fans will take at each other about what is worthy and what isn't - and which expanded the discussion of music to how it affects your own particular internal world. This is something deeply personal we hear little about, in public writing about music.

I posted a clip yesterday from a band called The Cure who have a ton of music I really love - and I'm very belated appreciator of this music, since this band also had saccharine pop songs when I was growing up that I didn't like, and because at the time Robert Smith's public image was a bit like he was in The Wiggles, or trying to host _Playschool_. So I had no idea at all what they were doing away from those radio hits which paid the bills - and then in midlife, back in 2014, I discovered an album called _Bloodflowers_ on the iPod Brett was lending me to use as an outdoor work companion when he was working in town during the day. It was the first time in 20 years I had heard an album that grabbed me in the way the best albums could before the age of MP3s, streaming etc. I listened breathlessly from start to finish and then instantly listened again all the way through. I had had _no_ idea that The Cure did very serious, thoughtful music, and that their grasp of the language of music itself, as a way of speaking things you can't express in words, was phenomenal. I also had had no idea that these people were incredibly adept and professional live, and head and shoulders above average in terms of musicianship.






This live clip epitomises to me what I love about this band - I'd previously only seen this kind of musical and interpersonal chemistry and strong sense of team playing when attending concerts from the Australian Chamber Orchestra, and other exceptional groups of classical musicians, or people like Capercaillie, and other technically excellent and high internal rapport folk and traditional bands. There was none of that ego stuff that goes on in a lot of rock bands, it was 100% musicianship and humanity. I love watching their stage performances, and it makes me happy to see human beings anywhere cooperating on something and coming up with things that are beautiful and profound as a result.

Yesterday, after posting that clip, I thought about all the reasons why I love this performance of this song, and that this band is still performing live and making music with most of them now in their 60s - which is not so common in rock / pop music, but normal with classical and folk, which aren't tied to a youth culture in the same way. There's some rock / pop acts who are still around in their 60s and 70s who I think look ridiculous because they're like cases of arrested psychological development combined with accelerated lifestyle-induced physical disintegration - they've never really matured and they're still strutting rock stars - but then I never liked these same bands even when they were young and strutting, either. The ones which I thought had substance tended to also age well and gracefully. Bowie, though I'm not a huge fan of his music myself (I understand that he did important and excellent things, and do like some of his songs, it's just a personal-musical-taste thing), certainly belongs to that category though - and by the way, that's his erstwhile guitarist, Reeves Gabrels, on stage-left (from the audience POV)!

We've watched a lot of Cure concerts together, and Gabrels is a huge personal favourite for Brett, with his cool-cucumber, I'm-just-here-doing-my-thing understatedness and total lack of big-shot-guitarist projections. Simon Gallup on bass, on stage right, is the ultimate stage animal - he does not stop moving around, and we'd love to put a pedometer on him to see how many miles he averages in these concerts that typically go to the three-hour mark or more when it's logistically possible for the band to do it. We also speculate on the kind of toddler he must have been once, and how hard it would have been to keep him out of cupboards. In his spare time he's on his mountainbike - he and drummer Jason Cooper, who does charity triathlons and swims etc, are poster children for the health benefits of exercise. They also would be the two band members using up the most calories during an actual gig.

Keyboardist / incidental instrument player Roger O'Donnell probably gets bored with the light workload he has in some of the songs, and does serious piano/classical and soundtrack CDs on the solo side. If anyone here has ever seen that spoof of Rowan Atkinson playing _Chariots of Fire_...






🤣 🤣 🤣 

...that's also going on with Mr O'Donnell there when he plays in The Cure, especially with their earlier songs, from before when he joined this band as an actual serious professional keyboard player.

Robert Smith and Reeves Gabrels are probably more towards the couch potato end of the spectrum than the drummer and bassist. I don't know their nutritional protocols but I do know that the music industry tends to go with high rates of alcohol consumption and sleep disruption, which former thing Robert Smith referenced in this particular song he wrote in his early 30s:






Anyway, age has not been as kind to either of them physically, but Gabrels doesn't look fazed about it, and Robert Smith has the courage to be who he is no matter what people think - the optics might have changed, but the principle hasn't. He grew up in a conventional suburban environment and started wearing make-up as a teenager, experimenting with borrowed stuff from friends/sister/girlfriend, I can't recall exactly. I do remember that he said that the bullies who tended to chase him around did it more when he wore make-up and this had a reinforcing effect on him. I think it's a great BS filter - if people object to that, you know they're not worth knowing; it saves you time. In recent interviews he's occasionally apologising for wearing stage make-up, for reasons of being pre/post concert or photo shoot etc, and quips that his unconventional wife of over 30 years likes him better that way. This was never about spectacle. It does, from my own observations, give a lot of young people permission to be themselves when their role models are out of the mould and don't conform to social conventions about how people should be because they are male, female, young, old, whatever it is that's tightly circumscribed by society for no very good reasons.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

(I can see this is going to be a multi-post article.  I've got space and am warming to the subject.)

That last post was more about the people, interpersonal stuff, etc. Now I'd like to get into what specifically I love about what they are doing in this clip:






The first thing to comment on there is the staging and presentation - if I'm going to do this chronologically. The first thing you notice when the lights go up is serious teamwork, mutual respect and interconnection - these people are focused on each other and their work, and frequently facing each other, rather than their audience. I don't read that as disrespect for the audience, but respect for each other and what they are trying to do - rather than playing up to being in front of an audience, "look-at-me-up-here" - and as a music appreciator, I actually think this is more respectful to the audience than constantly acknowledging and interacting with and putting on some kind of circus act for the people in the auditorium. It's being conscientious about the quality of the music you're making, and it's upholding the importance of the relationships which are important for putting the performance together. Plenty of space for audience acknowledgement between songs. The ACO and Capercaillie, by the way - some of my favourite classical and folk outfits to see live - are the same, and I love to see the interactions and the chemistry between the people making the music. I love their acknowledgement of each other as well. And apart from that - and I think because of that - their live music is exceptional, in all three examples. It's alive, organic, warm, heartfelt, plus technically of a very high standard.

The looks and nonverbal communication you see between people like this working together in groups to produce something complex they are passionate about are just gold. I'm a big, big fan of connected-up teamwork like this, whether in music, or any other aspect of life. I loved observing moments like this in my own classrooms too - and the best ones I was a student in. I even love seeing it in a herd of horses - the looks they give each other before they all take off in the same direction together like rockets, just for fun, and with this joy in connection and life. ❤

I really appreciate that none of the five men on stage are radiating machismo or toxic masculinity. Simon Gallup may have tattoos and fall most easily into the stereotype of what a rock star looks like, but he's also responsible for the BAD WOLF Dr Who reference on stage (which I won't explain to a non-Who-audience, but watching _The Day Of The Doctor_ would be a good start if anyone is curious).






Furthermore, he might occasionally wear Metallica T-shirts but he also has no compunction about playing a hot pink bass guitar, like at their 40th anniversary concert. Here's the opener of that concert - one of my favourite songs of all time, a real touchpiece for me, that makes me think about and feel all the beautiful and sad things in this world, and is as close to a hymn as non-religious people are going to get (and I don't think the song name is an accident). The bass line on this is so beautiful that I have no words, I can only say that it captures something about being alive that is beyond all words.






Here's an interesting interview excerpt with Robert Smith and Simon Gallup discussing the concept of success in their late 40s. (And neither of them are mansplaining, or manspreading! )






They've got another album in the works that's probably going to be out later this year (but good things take time ). I'm very much looking forward to it. These people are clearsighted in many ways and I'd be willing to bet that they don't have their heads in the sand about what it's been like to live in this world since their last album release in 2008. It will be the first album release since I counted myself as a serious appreciator of what they do - and I've only spent several years exploring and journalling elsewhere about their back catalogue, and still haven't finished! 

I'm not quite done yet. I've got another post to go specifically on singing...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Here we go again - same clip, because I'm still talking about that same clip. I want to draw attention to the singing. If anyone here has rather conventional tastes in music, you might have gotten to the opening vocalisation in the song and gone, "OK, that's not for me!" But if you were to push beyond that, you'd find that Robert Smith is an excellent singer technically. Just look at how he repeats the "always wrong" part of the chorus - with a different emphasis every time, and softly on the third repeat. This is how you're taught to play violin - altering your phrases as you repeat them - legato, staccato, spiccato, etc - changing the tone of your strings, your bowing of the same notes; using different effects, playing loudly and then repeating softly, or playing fast then repeating slow, etc etc etc. This was the thing that made me passionate about practicing as a string student, before we built our own house and had a smallholding. To know how much accomplishment is in something like this really made me listen better and appreciate music so much more when other people performed it.

Even the fact that Robert Smith can do non-verbal vocalisations like that, and replicate them quite reliably instead of all over the shop is exceptional, unless you've had opera training like Kate Miller-Heidke. Bono certainly can't do it, not from what I've seen - e.g. _Pride (In The Name Of Love)_ live; many rock / pop artists leave a lot to be desired when it comes to their onstage singing. With this singer, though, he seems to have put so much work into it over his life that he just got better and better. So now, even when he's performing old things I didn't like as studio songs way back, I really like the way he sings that these days, and the way everyone's playing has pulled together to this total apex of professionalism live.

This is from someone who actually didn't like his voice very much when I was growing up in the 80s - back then it was rather nasal and whiny. So when I discovered _Bloodflowers_ on my husband's iPod back in 2014, one of the things that amazed me was that Robert Smith could really, really sing. And write thoughtful lyrics. And the band could play. That part I was aware of from the first Cure song that ever got my complete attention, even though it was a radio song - _Lullaby_, which came out when I was an undergraduate and way too impoverished to be buying full-price CDs - so I started an excursion into classical and folk at the time, which was so much more affordable. I didn't get to buy a whole lot of musical things that I thought were interesting back then - I relied on the radio stations to play them again for me.

Here's _Lullaby_:






This is just excellently constructed, and humorous to me in its high dramatisation of a child's nightmare, sung by an adult. I know, my humour is strange, but this always made me smile at the same time as I found it convincingly creepy, as well as musically beautiful. There is no one way to respond to something like this. But every time this was on the radio, I'd stop everything and sit down crosslegged with my eyes closed and just listen and enjoy this song, when I was a university student.

So this should have given me some clue, but you know how they say, _One swallow does not make a summer_ - or if you're German, _Even a blind chicken will accidentally happen upon a piece of grain_ - and I'd heard too many saccharine pop songs at that point from them, so it was down to what I was exposed to on the radio, or even by my age contemporaries - because the classmate who played songs of their 1987 album in our English class as part of music project did not play any of the really interesting songs off that - just the candyfloss songs! But if she'd played this, I'd have saved up and bought the album:






...that's breathtaking on all sorts of levels. It just doesn't get better than this, to me.

Or this...






And now I will restrain myself, and end this entry - this is an endless topic, but I do have other things I must do... and this will go on my music blog, to be continued. 

Why I love music like this is that it shows me what life is like when there is humanity in it.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

ouch! my, i was totally taken wrong. I think Gotta is right, the correct term is 'manspreading'.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I said it was called manspreading, @tinyliny. And it's not like there weren't past precedents to that interpretation.


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## bornabadfish (6 mo ago)

SueC said:


> *MEANDERINGS ON MUSIC AND APPRECIATING THE WORK OF OTHERS*
> 
> Music is one of my favourite things about life, and communication with others, so if I'm gonna journal anywhere, and stick around, this is going to crop up in my discussions, and of course I wouldn't expect anyone not interested to read that. It's just that the interest on that in the group here present has not been zero, so why not, and also because when I do personal journalling, wherever I do it, I do it for my own pleasure and to explore, and it doesn't matter who reads it and who doesn't.
> 
> ...


The Cure has been my favorite band since the 80's. I was lucky enough to have had a good friend who was into goth industrial music and he introduced me to their older stuff. Charlotte Sometimes captivated my interest and I have been a total fan of them since. I've been fortunate to see them live a half dozen times throughout the years. Thank you for such a beautiful description of your journey of Cure discovery and deep dive into the essence of what they have done. A few songs aside, Bloodflowers was the last "real" Cure album IMO; cannot wait for the next one (which was promised in 2019!)


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Thank goodness - I wasn't shouting into a void! 

How lovely that you dropped in, @bornabadfish. ❤ Hello.

Brett tends to agree with you re _Bloodflowers_, but I've quite taken to their self-titled, and I think the worst thing about their 2008 album (apart from a couple of songs I really didn't like) was the mastering/mixing/whatever the Dickens it was that made it sound like it comes from a tinny radio at the bottom of a well, or an overcompressed MP-3 - my ears were screaming at that. A re-master would be good and I hate the Loudness Wars. And it's a good thing they are taking so long finalising all that stuff on the new album...

So now we need to know more about you, of course!


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## bornabadfish (6 mo ago)

SueC said:


> Thank goodness - I wasn't shouting into a void!
> 
> How lovely that you dropped in, @bornabadfish. ❤ Hello.
> 
> ...


Funny to find myself chatting on a forum about horses, of which I know almost nothing about. I actually stumbled upon this thread because of r/TheCure sub on Reddit.

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCure/comments/w7sl12
.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Well, there you go. And what would you like to know about horses? 










(This is a horse.)

So that's the problem when you do music journalling in an unexpected place... but I seriously never expected anyone to join a forum just to say hello! 😄


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## bornabadfish (6 mo ago)

bornabadfish said:


> The Cure has been my favorite band since the 80's. I was lucky enough to have had a good friend who was into goth industrial music and he introduced me to their older stuff. Charlotte Sometimes captivated my interest and I have been a total fan of them since. I've been fortunate to see them live a half dozen times throughout the years. Thank you for such a beautiful description of your journey of Cure discovery and deep dive into the essence of what they have done. A few songs aside, Bloodflowers was the last "real" Cure album IMO; cannot wait for the next one (which was promised in 2019!)





SueC said:


> Well, there you go. And what would you like to know about horses?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm quite happy watching horses on Yellowstone and 1883 these days lol.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

bornabadfish said:


> I'm quite happy watching horses on Yellowstone and 1883 these days lol.


Well, if you ever wish to be filled up on things horse, there are a few people here who will be very happy to oblige. 

How hilarious and sweet that a person signed up to HF just to say hello about the music journalling on The Cure. ❤ I am married to Mr Internet with a Reddit account, so every time I've written anything anywhere that niche Cure fans might enjoy it's been indexed there for anyone interested. And there's been readers and feedback on Reddit and on Curefans, but nobody from Reddit had ever tried to leave a comment on the source pages (music forum, blog) before this. Hahahaha. 😁

You actually don't have to talk about horses to us if you don't want to. This is a journal section, where other interests can be discussed (with a few exceptions, like recreational axe murdering). You've landed in the most other-interests journal here, although I can justify my existence on these pages by the fact that I am actually documenting saddle educating a horse called Julian, and that I am very fond of some of the people here and have been a long time.

This is Julian (and donkey Nelly, who's besotted by him):


And this is a photoshop job Brett did to place Simon Gallup near some Texas Longhorns as part of a COVID education push:

*Social Distancing with Simon*

Are you fed up with the people who aren't taking this pandemic seriously, and who don't care if they spread their germs all over you? Let Simon help you with social distancing.










Option 1: A Texas Longhorn cow is a valuable aid to social distancing. Horn spans frequently exceed 2 metres. If you take one of these on your walks around town or country, nobody is going to barge into you, or come within coughing distance of where you are breathing. And while Texas Longhorns are not a dairy breed, they can easily supply enough milk for your household on top of raising their own calf, reducing the necessity for shopping trips into potentially virus-laden indoors spaces.

Option 2: If you live in an apartment, you may not have the space for a Texas Longhorn cow, so why not buy a specially made, completely solid replica bass guitar in signature pink. While you can't play music on it, it still looks pretty cool, and has been especially designed for standing up to repeated impacts if necessary. Replica bass guitar plus average arm length exceeds 2 metres, so if you spin around holding it by the tuning peg end, you should be able to maintain the currently recommended social distancing space around you (or clear a sufficient space if necessary).


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I personally have no application for this concept, but thought it wonderfully clever and devious...


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## bornabadfish (6 mo ago)

SueC said:


> Well, if you ever wish to be filled up on things horse, there are a few people here who will be very happy to oblige.
> 
> How hilarious and sweet that a person signed up to HF just to say hello about the music journalling on The Cure. ❤ I am married to Mr Internet with a Reddit account, so every time I've written anything anywhere that niche Cure fans might enjoy it's been indexed there for anyone interested. And there's been readers and feedback on Reddit and on Curefans, but nobody from Reddit had ever tried to leave a comment on the source pages (music forum, blog) before this. Hahahaha. 😁
> 
> ...


Oh my this is all hilarious and amazing. "Social Distancing with Simon G" YouTube channel, now I'd watch that!!!
I'm one of those kind of people who will sign up for a forum just to comment on anything Cure. How fun to make new friends near and far.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Hahaha, @bornabadfish, I'd watch that too! You can just imagine him walking around with that Texas Longhorn on the lead rope in a pedestrian mall, scowling at inconsiderate people who don't respect other people's personal distance. The Texas Longhorn would be a multi-purpose solution for him - he would be far less likely to be bothered for autographs when trying to do his shopping etc. It really is a most useful and decorative bovine breed. 😎

The reason the Photoshop job is quite convincing is that Brett happened to find a photo of Mr Gallup leaning up against his mountain bike for some cycling magazine, so it was easy to fandangle him off that page and into the field, leaning up against the cow. 😇 He came with his bass, so we had to think about how to encorporate that into our health promotion message. 🤣 I was asked to draw a realistic lead rope arc with a mouse (so hard compared to an actual pencil, a number of curse-_undo_ moments) and then Brett magicked it into braided form. He added a few shadows in the right places and did some blurring, and transplanting of grass. Also - and extreme Cure heads might notice this, and Simon Gallup certainly would - as it wasn't his pink bass, a quick colour-switch was performed just to make the whole thing more punchy.

By the way, re those Cure appreciation posts, it has since been pointed out to me by my husband that he's never seen Simon Gallup wearing a Metallica T-shirt, might I mean Iron Maiden, and by the way, they are also British? Yes, it was someone like that - someone noisy, and interchangeable to the amateur... 😜 These are first drafts, and I'll fix a few inaccuracies and re-word a few things more elegantly when they go on my main online open journal/blog (to be continued). So if anyone notices anything amiss, please let me know.

@bornabadfish, how cool that you go around checking into various online places just to connect up with other Cure afficionados! 😎 You're certainly welcome here if you can put up with the strong livestock smells and my-little-ponying. And you know what, if you feel like it, come by and drop a favourite Cure song or favourite live clip into my journal and tell us why you love it in fine detail, and of course any aspect you don't too, if applicable. It will make this thread more alive and I will enjoy reading, and replying. 

Something we found yesterday that was interesting - the Aeolian scale bit, not the how-to-be-a-copycat - feel free to chime in reactions, comments, agree/disagree etc. And welcome again!


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## bornabadfish (6 mo ago)

bornabadfish said:


> The Cure has been my favorite band since the 80's. I was lucky enough to have had a good friend who was into goth industrial music and he introduced me to their older stuff. Charlotte Sometimes captivated my interest and I have been a total fan of them since. I've been fortunate to see them live a half dozen times throughout the years. Thank you for such a beautiful description of your journey of Cure discovery and deep dive into the essence of what they have done. A few songs aside, Bloodflowers was the last "real" Cure album IMO; cannot wait for the next one (which was promised in 2019!)





SueC said:


> Hahaha, @bornabadfish, I'd watch that too! You can just imagine him walking around with that Texas Longhorn on the lead rope in a pedestrian mall, scowling at inconsiderate people who don't respect other people's personal distance. The Texas Longhorn would be a multi-purpose solution for him - he would be far less likely to be bothered for autographs when trying to do his shopping etc. It really is a most useful and decorative bovine breed. 😎
> 
> The reason the Photoshop job is quite convincing is that Brett happened to find a photo of Mr Gallup leaning up against his mountain bike for some cycling magazine, so it was easy to fandangle him off that page and into the field, leaning up against the cow. 😇 He came with his bass, so we had to think about how to encorporate that into our health promotion message. 🤣 I was asked to draw a realistic lead rope arc with a mouse (so hard compared to an actual pencil, a number of curse-_undo_ moments) and then Brett magicked it into braided form. He added a few shadows in the right places and did some blurring, and transplanting of grass. Also - and extreme Cure heads might notice this, and Simon Gallup certainly would - as it wasn't his pink bass, a quick colour-switch was performed just to make the whole thing more punchy.
> 
> ...


You are my favorite piece of the internet today.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*PRIZE PUMPKIN*

Presenting our largest pumpkin from this year's harvest - a Musquee de Provence...






I've been cutting it into wedges and roasting them in the oven all night - then the wedges will get packed and put in the freezer for later ready use.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this looks like Brett is casting a spell, perhaps making the pumpkin appear:








and then , by magic, his head is floating next to it:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> this looks like Brett is casting a spell, perhaps making the pumpkin appear:
> View attachment 1132769
> 
> and then , by magic, his head is floating next to it:
> View attachment 1132770


Haha! 😄 We had two pumpkins off that vine (it was a poor season for cucurbits, too cold) - the other is really small, and still outside on the bench because it is unblemished and therefore doesn't need emergency processing to stop it spoiling. And after we took these photos, Brett said, "I should have made that gesture over the small pumpkin and then changed pumpkins to take a _ta-da - look, I made it bigger_ photo. Too late now!"

But my husband really does make a lot of magic at our house! 🖤


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

bornabadfish said:


> You are my favorite piece of the internet today.


That solo lockdown dance party was a cool thing to do - maybe you should share it with everyone by posting it to this thread. We have a few people here who live isolated and could do with some new-ways-to-exercise inspiration. Also with some yoga tips! 

Having dry ice was particularly fun. So because you did the first album, I will post the recent live versions of songs I have grown to love off that. 











These days they play that 70s material with such panache!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

A few things about the owner-building of our strawbale house on Red Moon Sanctuary. 









































































Questions always welcome - also we have a photo album of the build with annotated photos (in individual photo mode) which we've long made available to the Australian and international communities as a strawbale building and owner-building resource. ♥


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Since I authored these articles, I have the editor's permission to share them with others. ♥

PS: It wasn't totally finished when this magazine came out - readers of my journal will know we've only recently finished the attic interior plastering!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

It's funny, we're on a bit of a nostalgia drive at the moment over the last decade and how it changed the place we've adopted and us. We're resting on our laurels a bit looking back and consciously celebrating what we've achieved, to gather energy to finish the attic flooring, balcony etc and do the other main projects like the re-fence and loading ramp that must be done this year...

The weather is too miserable to ride - horses are in rugs, and Brett is ill thanks to his trip to the city and the fact that families are, well, families and sense and courtesy can go out the door - so he's taking it easy and watching movies etc, and because we're not hiking but on a precious fortnight of annual leave, I'm having a look in the rear vision mirror.

Posting the building articles above made me think about the months we spent in the caravan en route to living in our house.


*CARAVAN DAYS 2012/2013*

As part and parcel of owner-building our strawbale house, we spent four months living on-site in a caravan. That summer is now nearly a decade in the past, and I’d like to commemorate that time. This is the original manuscript of the article published in Australia's *Grass Roots*_ 251 in Feb/March 2019._








_Life in a small interior_

If you are building your own abode in the country, you may find it convenient to spend some time living in a caravan while getting the house habitable. It is generally not a good idea to ask your council for permission – it’s rather pointless, as councils around Australia are increasingly taking the view that the only place they want people in caravans is where at least $30 per night will be charged for the privilege. This is not compatible either with most owner-builder budgets (nor practical, since the whole point is to be on-site), or, to my way of thinking, with the civil liberties of private landholders wishing to peacefully enjoy their own properties. Australia is fast legislating the fair go out of existence on many fronts.








_Friendly donkeys were part and parcel of the experience_

Many people still do use caravans or other temporary accommodation to live on-site during house construction, and if you can quietly swing it, it’s a good way to save money and time while engaged in a project that is notoriously demanding on both.

We weren’t going to do it, initially – we commuted from town every building day, half an hour each way, when we started our house, determined to go from one functional house to the next. But when a few curveballs were thrown our way in the middle of it all – a traffic accident that aggravated a back injury and resulted in down time, consequent delays in building, and a building site burglary – we gratefully accepted the loan of a caravan, and spent one summer living in it while getting our house from lock-up stage to the point where we could sleep in the house.








_Donkey-vision_

We look back on that summer six years ago with a fond nostalgia. It felt oddly like we were pioneering – washing ourselves in buckets by the rainwater tank, washing up similarly after cooking in the caravan, sleeping at night with the mopokes calling in the trees and the donkeys swaying our bed by scratching themselves against the caravan axle. Our generator ran our power tools and also my trusty twin tub washing machine, and washing was hung on the espalier wires of our embryonic orchard.








_First use of twin tub, directly by the tank and run off a generator extension cord _









_First wash day on our farm – clothes hung off espalier wires_

*Organising Storage*

We had a small household’s worth of furniture and general contents that needed a home before we could distribute it around the finished house later. A commercial storage unit was contemplated, but was another expense we didn’t need, and we worried about rodent, insect and moisture damage to our extensive book collection.

At lock-up, our house had all the ceilings installed, the wet areas plasterboarded and primed, a scratch coat on all the strawbale walls internally, and two plaster coats on the exterior – i.e. sealed and weatherproof. We now needed to complete the interior plasterboarding and lime plastering, seal the floors, tile the wet areas, and install the fixtures of two bathrooms and a kitchen. Also on the list was internal door hanging and painting, installing architraves and skirting boards, and making built-in cupboards and shelving.







_Plasterboard installation_

We decided to use one unfinished bedroom as a furniture store, and another to store boxes of books and household effects. The boxes were stacked as an island in the middle of the room, surrounded by rodent bait stations as we are rural and there were still some gaps in the house. We regularly inspected the book boxes to ensure nothing was nibbling at Charles Dickens and his friends.







_Unfinished room for temporary storage_

*Portable Pantry*

Without a kitchen, we needed a portable, rodent-and-insect-safe pantry in which to store our cooking staples, and used several lidded plastic storage tubs for this purpose. For space reasons, we kept these at the house and had just one small tub with immediate meal requirements in the caravan, which we took “shopping” to the house tubs as needed.

Items requiring refrigeration lived in the small caravan fridge. There was also some fresh produce coming from our newly planted food garden.

*Temporary Wardrobe*

Casual clothes for immediate use were kept in the caravan wardrobe, while all our other clothes resided in suitcases in the “ultra clean area” – a completely plasterboarded and painted bathroom – along with kitchen equipment that didn’t fit in the caravan but was sometimes needed, stationery, paperwork etc.

*Living In A Small Space*

Our loan caravan was a small two-person model, with a double bed at one end, a padded seating bench across the other end, and an area in the middle with a small wardrobe on one side and a kitchenette opposite. The bed doubled as a space for daytime reading and using our laptops. The plastic tub with immediate supplies had to be kept on one side of the seating bench, as there was no other space for it. Dishes were put into a plastic washtub, which was ferried out to the tank for washing up. Clean dishes then went into another plastic tub.








_Brett relaxing with a cup of tea_

In a small space, you have to be very tidy and organised not to go crazy – everything has to have its spot, and return to that spot. Once a week we vacuumed the caravan, running a power cable from the generator. We like living in a clean space, and this made us feel more at home.








_Christmas 2012, with festive decorations and reading material_

Breakfasts were fun. We usually had muesli and fruit, and the donkeys would appear the moment we opened the caravan door while breakfasting, and push enquiring heads through the doorway. They were interested not just in the apple cores, but also the mandarin and banana peels, and gave little hoots to encourage us to find such items for them.









*Office In A Shed*

After Brett’s long-service leave was over, we had to set up an office for him so he could resume his graphic design work, which he did from home for his Melbourne employer. At this stage the off-grid solar-electric system had been installed in the shed, but the house was not yet live. We set up his office space in the shed, conveniently out of the way of house-finishing activities. We had a power cable to the main house and could now enjoy listening to music while working inside the house.
















*How Caravan Living Ended*

As summer gave way to autumn, mice decided that the caravan was a nice spot to colonise. The caravan was not mouse-proof, and baiting/trapping had only limited success. I’m a light sleeper, and at night I could hear mice scrabbling inside the skin of the caravan walls. When one mouse started moving into our wardrobe, and bouncing around in it night after night like a miniature poltergeist, that was the end of a good night’s sleep for me. Also, the caravan interior was getting very cold at night with autumn descending. At this point we were yearning to sleep in our nice, warm, soft Queen-sized bed again – a bed the donkeys couldn’t rattle in the middle of the night. The home office was habitable now, so we decided to use it as temporary sleeping quarters while finishing the actual bedrooms.








_The office had its scratch coat on when we decided it was more comfortable temporary accommodation than the caravan_


_Finished office, later on_


_The actual finished bedroom_

The caravan continued its duties as a kitchen until the house kitchen was installed (GR 219/220). The donkeys continued to visit whenever there was actual cooking. When there were no suitable fruit and vegetable scraps for them, we gave them a Weet-Bix each. For some reason, the dominant memory of our caravan days is that of three donkey faces poking into the caravan doorway inquisitively, looking for snacks and entertainment.

_Who can resist those three?_

*Should You Do It?*

Regardless of what authorities think about the matter, living on-site when owner building results in significant savings of money, time and energy compared to continuing to live off-site and having to commute in. It is a commonsense thing to do, and becomes an adventure in improvisation you will remember for the rest of your life.








_Work on the living area – now with music_


_Finished living area_

_They still know where we live…_

_Donkeys = antics_


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The weather is still too miserable to ride - gale-force winds, intermittent driving rain. We can't hike because Brett is still unwell - why does this always happen when we're on annual leave? We were so looking forward to this time off, and being outdoors, and now we're indoors doing indoors things (except when I do basic animal and garden care). Ah well. I suppose couch potato down time also counts as down time.

This post is for anyone living on a smallholding who can't remember the last time they went on holidays away. We were supposed to do two weeks hiking in Tasmania by campervan back in 2019, but we all know what happened that year. So we've now not been out of our home state for 12 years. But we love where we love - the South Coast of Western Australia is one of the greatest places to be when that happens - plenty of hiking trails here, including hundreds of kilometres we've not yet walked. So we're wilderness walking on day trips, which I record on a hiking diary for people in other places to have vicarious journeys in. This is currently being appreciated on a site called Remote Places, where people exchange such material.

But anyway, today is the day to look back at one of our favourite hiking holidays in the fabled Tasmania, across the Nullarbor and Bass Strait from us, a spectacular wilderness state...and it's a vicarious trip for anyone who's not been there, or been out a while. Enjoy! 

*TASMANIA BY CAMPERVAN, EASTER 2009*

_We were looking forward to finally making another trip to Tasmania in 2019, for the first time in ten years…having meanwhile bought a farm, built a shed and outbuildings and farmhouse with our own hands, planted thousands of trees, looked after animals, planted an orchard and permaculture garden, etc etc. Oh well. But in celebration of that, here is a version with extras of an article on a past trip that was originally published by _*Grass Roots*_ 247 in June/July 2018._









Tasmania is a real jewel of a place for anyone who enjoys nature. It is the least deforested state of Australia and one of the few places on Earth that still has vast areas of real wilderness. There is mountain range after mountain range, all of them spectacular in different ways, and the coastline is gorgeous all the way around. It is a bushwalker’s paradise. If you could live for a thousand years and walk every day, you could still be walking new tracks in Tasmania that had you oohing and aahing and happy to be alive.








Hobart and Launceston are cities on a human scale, sitting in sublime landscapes in which they seem only to be an afterthought. The architecture and parks are pretty, many people have lovely gardens, and there are a plethora of bookshops and places of interest to enjoy. You can breathe fresh air even in the city centres, and there are always natural landmarks to steer by, so it’s hard to get lost driving. The concrete monstrosities that infest so much of mainland Australia haven’t made many inroads into these cities, in part because of comparative economic poverty, which has kept the place rich in other and more important ways.





























Tasmanian farming operates on a completely different scale to mainland farming. The fields are smaller and there is more diversity in the landscape. Volcanic soils in the north are rich and chocolatey and grow amazing potatoes. Things can change drastically just around the corner, at any corner. You see old livestock breeds all over the place that are hard to find on the “North Island”, as Tasmanians like to call the rest of Australia. There are lots of curves in the roads and lots of uphills and downhills. Little churches jump out at you, Gothic graveyards invite a visit for reflection. Place names make you laugh: Penguin, Nook, Nowhere Else, Promised Land, Snug, Flowerpot, Electrona, Paradise, Bagdad, Tomahawk, Lower Crackpot.











































Brett and I had our first holiday in Tasmania in 2007, and after that we couldn’t stop going back. Early on in our marriage we were farmless and very free to travel. If we had two weeks off and a little money for plane tickets, we said, “Let’s go to Tasmania again.” On our first trip to the Apple Isle we hired a tiny yellow car whose gearbox went “clunk” every time we shifted into third gear, stayed in little chalets and walked over 200km of magnificent tracks in two weeks. In 2009 we went in our own car for an extended working holiday and packed a tent into the back for camping trips. Once we just spent a fortnight going around in a campervan. This was great fun, and we’d do it again in a flash.








If you live all the way over in Western Australia, like we do, it’s not economical to drive your own car across the Nullarbor to visit Tasmania just for a short holiday. There are reasonably-priced plane tickets to Tassie now, booking specials or stand-by seats on a no-frills airline. If you can schedule it, fly on the 13th of the month, it’s heavily discounted due to people’s superstitions.















If you have to fly in, you will need transport. A bicycle tour could be just the thing, perhaps with camping equipment in panniers. If you specifically want a walking holiday, motorised transport is helpful, and a campervan is your transport and accommodation in one. So for our Easter holidays in 2009, we hired a little campervan. It was small enough to manoeuvre easily and handle well on the road, yet we slept and ate in it comfortably. The back of the van contained a sink, pantry, small fridge, microwave and gas rings, and a comfortable double bed with a storage loft above where we kept our suitcases, toiletry bags, towels, jackets and backpacks. Living in a small basic space is a good exercise: It hones your organisation and creativity, and helps you focus on the things that really matter.








It was great to have everything with us on the road and to never have to unpack and repack every time we changed bases, and so handy to be able to stop and make a coffee anytime, get changed anywhere, and have a bed with you in case you get deadly tired in the middle of the day and need a power nap – as does happen when you have a walking holiday. Once we drove up Mt Wellington after an overnight snowfall there, took in the views, and made a snowman. When we got hungry we cooked a hot lunch right there on the mountain, before going outdoors again for a long hike in the white wonderland. The next morning, we were walking on a sunny beach in our T-shirts. That’s Tassie for you.















Tasmania has amazing produce, with which you can stock your campervan fridge to become your own roving restaurant. This is a fun and economical way to eat wonderfully well while sampling the local wares. We often had local mueslis with yoghurt and fruit for breakfast. Favourites on the lunch and dinner menus were steak sandwiches with caramelised onions, mushrooms and capsicum, and loads of fresh salad vegetables; eggs scrambled with mushrooms, tomatoes and handfuls of parsley on local sourdough bread; avocados and lemon on rye bread; pasta with mushroom, olive, feta and tomatoes; microwave jacket potatoes with mozzarella, parmesan and rocket; substantial salads; and our post-big-walk “resurrection soup” made with chicken stock, soup pasta, parsley, and slices of cheddar cheese added at the end until it just blends. These kinds of meals are straightforward to prepare when in a campervan – you can leave your baking and complicated cooking for when you get home.








Snacks are easy: We were buying marvellous apples, cherries, berries, peaches, etc, all over the place including roadside stalls. The Hill Street Grocer in West Hobart, our favourite shop in the world, sells exquisite fruit and vegetables, cheeses, memorable nut mixes, and a wonderful taramasalata which is great for dipping crunchy fresh celery in. We raided the Sandy Bay German Bakery repeatedly for their great bread, pretzels, nut horns, beestings, and other delicious morsels. We often ate wholemeal toast slathered with butter and gorgeous leatherwood honey. So you can see it is very easy in Tasmania to stay fuelled up for walking four to six hours a day on its fabled nature trails. The food and the walking go hand-in-hand, and allow you to come away from your holiday toned and glowing, with serious improvements in fitness and endurance, and unforgettable memories of adventures in scintillating landscapes.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

When travelling by campervan, we would overnight in trail head car parks so we could head out on a day hike straight after breakfast. Good toilet etiquette is paramount in the bush: Take a trowel and bury absolutely everything under the litter layer away from footpaths so it can compost away invisibly. It is amazing how many people seem to be unaware of this courtesy to nature and other walkers; don’t be one of them. Don’t wash your hands in the campervan’s kitchen sink afterwards either, as we’ve seen people do. You can use a simple water bottle turned into a tap by your spouse, or hand sanitiser if you prefer. When you need to do laundry or have a hot shower you can stay in a caravan park. We tended to do strenuous day hikes every second day, and drive to a caravan park after. Next day we would sightsee and do shorter walks and then stay in the bush somewhere.








Our favourite overnighter was in a layby off a tiny country road in northern Tasmania. There was a field of cattle next door and tall forest everywhere else. We had driven in at sunset, very slowly because there was so much wildlife crossing at that time – the sheer amounts reliably stagger mainlanders. After dinner and lights-out we lay snuggled up in the dark listening to a cacophony of sounds from insects, frogs, birds, bats and various marsupials, and looked out of the van windows at a crystalline Milky Way, far away from big-city light pollution. To us, those are the true riches of life!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

…as you can probably imagine, we are a little nostalgic about time flying and adventures past. It will be lovely to get back out to that island one day to make new wonderful memories…


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Very nice article! It makes one want to visit Tasmania.

I hope Brett gets to feeling better.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Thank you, @Knave. We went to town to get things from the pharmacy because paracetamol wasn't cutting it - he didn't sleep a wink last night with nonstop coughing. He's finally sleeping tonight, doped up to his eyeballs on cough suppressants and drowsy antihistamines. Miraculously I am as yet unscathed, but just telling you this will probably jinx it. I've never not caught a respiratory infection from him, but then this is the first time we're both religiously in our N-95s from the go-get, including to sleep, and eating socially distanced, and airing the house well, and the ill person showers last then airs the bathroom etc etc.

Tasmania is indeed spectacular; it's hard to fathom when you go there what an awful history it had as a brutal penal colony less than 250 years ago. Here's a song about that...






If you were Irish and fighting against the oppression of the British invaders to your country, even just by writing for an Irish newspaper, you were sentenced for _treason_ - oh the irony. True to form over their invasion of Ireland, the British did the same to Australia, except here they didn't even recognise that there were human beings already present and declared it _terra_ _nullius_. In Van Diemen's Land - Tasmania's first European name - the Indigeous people were systematically exterminated, just like the thylacine. For considerable amounts of time, Australian native peoples were managed by the same state departments that also handled flora and fauna. They didn't get to vote until 1962 and had their languages and culture suppressed just like the Irish had. In 2008 there was finally an official government apology for the Stolen Generations and other systematic injustices, and just this week we're moving ahead with constituitional recognition of our First Nations people and new parliamentary arrangements to ensure representation. It is all taking far too long and blocked at every turn by right-wingers, which is one of many many reasons I am a social progressive. In Australia, as in Ireland, it's not very helpful to justice matters to back the people who profited and continue to profit from the unfair allocation of power and resources. The punks saw that too, on a musical note, but they made awful music IMO and were more about the rebellion than about offering solutions.

Here's an excellent spoof which turns the tables on Australian history, made in 1986 and shown in schools ever since to help people understand what it would be like in the shoes of those who were disenfranchised historically:






Our own teacher showed us this - there were so many openly racist kids in my middle school forever making "jokes" about Aboriginal people, not to mention immigrants (me, for example) and LGBTIQ. It's good that we are making progress in this area. The current generation of kids is much more egalitarian and inclusive.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC, we are in the same boat as you & Brett. Lovely husband went on a work trip early this week, and came back with a gnarly cough. Obviously that only meant one thing. He tested Covid negative from Wednesday through Saturday, but is now testing positive. So far I am not but who knows why or when that will change. I would never say this to him because he already feels bad enough, but I am trying not to feel annoyed…he didn’t _have to _go on this work trip but did to make some political people happy, which makes it irritating. We’ve made it this far without being infected, but I suppose it was just a matter of time. Some sobering news today though, a colleague that was supposed to be on that trip didn’t make it because he was hospitalized with Covid-and today news came that he had died in the hospital over the weekend 😥 This disease is still so scary with the way it hits people.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

SueC said:


> Thank you, @Knave. We went to town to get things from the pharmacy because paracetamol wasn't cutting it - he didn't sleep a wink last night with nonstop coughing. He's finally sleeping tonight, doped up to his eyeballs on cough suppressants and drowsy antihistamines. Miraculously I am as yet unscathed, but just telling you this will probably jinx it. I've never not caught a respiratory infection from him, but then this is the first time we're both religiously in our N-95s from the go-get, including to sleep, and eating socially distanced, and airing the house well, and the ill person showers last then airs the bathroom etc etc.
> 
> Tasmania is indeed spectacular; it's hard to fathom when you go there what an awful history it had as a brutal penal colony less than 250 years ago. Here's a song about that...
> 
> ...


Greetings from Babakiueria!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

egrogan said:


> @SueC, we are in the same boat as you & Brett. Lovely husband went on a work trip early this week, and came back with a gnarly cough. Obviously that only meant one thing. He tested Covid negative from Wednesday through Saturday, but is now testing positive. So far I am not but who knows why or when that will change. I would never say this to him because he already feels bad enough, but I am trying not to feel annoyed…he didn’t _have to _go on this work trip but did to make some political people happy, which makes it irritating. We’ve made it this far without being infected, but I suppose it was just a matter of time. Some sobering news today though, a colleague that was supposed to be on that trip didn’t make it because he was hospitalized with Covid-and today news came that he had died in the hospital over the weekend 😥 This disease is still so scary with the way it hits people.


How are you doing? I'm livid because the cause of the trouble for us is the usual suspect - Brett's father, who the rules never apply to apparently. Said he had a chronic cough from some lung condition and wouldn't wear a mask. I was, "Oh wow Brett, why did you even go in the house, you don't allow this at work!" but families have their own brainwash. Brett wore his N-95 but also had to eat. With someone coughing at the table. FFS. Of course I'm livid. It doesn't matter they tested negative, for one thing these antigen tests depend on how well you swab and often come up negative for the first few days, and for another there is a whole host of respiratory infections back out there with restrictions lifting which are also not fun to get, especially while you are supposed to be recovering from all your hard work on your precious annual leave. Thanks a lot. Great holiday for us. All because a person who purports to care about Brett can't be bothered to tell him he's got symptoms before Brett makes the long trip, and then won't take any precautions. And because the family are under this old man's hypnotic spell - he can never do any wrong - so Brett doesn't leave.

How hard is it to wear a mask? We've got record numbers of people dying in this country since mask mandates lifted, and at least one in twenty infections resulting in long COVID. The virus is mutating all the time and immunisation is only partly effective, just as with flu vaccines. So why at the very least can't sick people stay home and inform others not to visit, and wear masks if they absolutely have to go out? We wear masks in any public indoor situation or crowd as a matter of course, and it's not like it's a huge sacrifice. I wear pants too, wow, but what if I want to air my behind? What if I want to let it all hang out? It's so childish. Do I care about the health and wellbeing of my family and other people? Yes I do. Others don't, or have their heads in cloud cuckoo-land. And everyone suffers because of it. We're all interconnected.

Brett is still testing negative but whatever it is, isn't spreading it. He stayed in the car today as a precaution when I did the shopping. We both had N-95s on and though not symptomatic myself, was meticulous about hygiene and distancing everywhere I went. Brett only hopped out when we took the dog to the harbour, outdoors, no other people, still in his N-95 (which is also great for preventing secondary infections from the general environment and getting cold air in your compromised lungs).

It's actually not hard to do these things, and how much misery could we prevent if we all just did this. It wouldn't prevent all of it, but most of it. But then being asked to do small things out of commonsense and decency is clearly too much for a lot of people. I just need to look at the litter in our rural roadsides to have another demonstration of that attitude. Or watch yet another person cough on the fruit in the supermarket today. Wow, how _excellent_.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I just got through my second round of covid. I thought we were all better, but big girl is just showing symptoms starting last night. She fell asleep bailing hay at midnight. She was told to take 15 minutes, and when she woke up the wheel fell off her tractor. Happy birthday to her this morning.

I went to work for her this morning, and she’s just laid around today. We can’t stop when we get sick, but we do stay away from town and other people. Isolating is easy when one is always isolated. Lol. I believe I got it from our vacation.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Well, give her a hug and tell her happy birthday from me, @Knave, and sorry that she's ill on her birthday. From what you've said you've had a rough time with health in general of late so I am sending you good wishes and a pathogen-free octopus hug. 🐙

And also to you and lovely hubby, @egrogan. 🐙🐙


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Aww, a sad happy birthday to your daughter @Knave.

Sue, that’s so frustrating about Brett’s family. I am sorry he had to be put in that position, and you too 

On our home front, we’ve mostly been handling it as you describe. He is not leaving the house, so not going inside anywhere and we’re masking. I am masking when I go inside anywhere. He actually feels mostly fine besides just the cough, which I think lulled is into a false optimism the first few days because the tests were negative and he never had a fever or any other symptoms. Which of course we’re grateful for and hope it stays that way.

I did ride with my friend M on Sunday but she knew what was going on and felt comfortable riding. As you know, we’re not that close together when we ride 😆

I’m supposed to do a weekend of endurance rides this weekend but I doubt I will go. Even if I’m still testing negative, and I’d be outside, it just feels wrong to knowingly be around other people who may not want to take even that slight chance, especially because so many of them are older. There is so little guidance though about self-isolation here. Do I wait to start my countdown until both of us are testing negative? Is it ok to go out to something like the ride and just stay masked if I’m negative but he’s positive? I really don’t know the right thing to do.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

egrogan said:


> Sue, that’s so frustrating about Brett’s family. I am sorry he had to be put in that position, and you too


Unexamined family of origin dynamic which we went to guidance counselling over in our first years of marriage so now Brett can see what is going on in hindsight, but it's still hard for him to see it in the moment. His conditioning and I'd say also his survival mechanism was to turn off anything like that from his acute awareness - nothing to see here. His father does get nasty when anybody tries to set boundaries on him and this is why, after a number of unfortunate incidents at our place, including with a contractor working for us who had told him he didn't want help but he pushed in anyway and the contractor narrowly escaped injury, Brett decided to ban his father from visiting our house - as reasoning didn't help and his behaviour isn't going to change. We don't behave in such ways at their house and we won't put up with it here. So Brett goes to see him, and hadn't for two years, and now this. In part it's cultural - and with my FIL, toxic masculinity is part of the equation, as is having enablers around - also in the wider culture.

I'm very happy the apple fell so far from the tree - Brett is lovely. We are none of us perfect, but there is a difference between making mistakes which you make amends for, and having toxic patterns that stay unexamined.

My family of origin is even more dysfunctional! 😜 It's been a lot of work (and it's ongoing) to disentangle myself from the consequences - complex PTSD is quite an eye-opener. But also has silver linings. One of them is that I write and talk about mental/emotional health and help raise awareness. Intergenerational trauma needs to be addressed so it doesn't perpetuate, and talking about it openly helps reduce the stigma and the suffocating silence. It's really a community issue.



egrogan said:


> On our home front, we’ve mostly been handling it as you describe. He is not leaving the house, so not going inside anywhere and we’re masking. I am masking when I go inside anywhere. He actually feels mostly fine besides just the cough, which I think lulled is into a false optimism the first few days because the tests were negative and he never had a fever or any other symptoms. Which of course we’re grateful for and hope it stays that way.
> 
> I did ride with my friend M on Sunday but she knew what was going on and felt comfortable riding. As you know, we’re not that close together when we ride 😆


Yes, haha! 😂

If it were me though - it's definitely safer leading than being in a contaminated slipstream. 

This is also why you don't want to tail someone who's been eating a lot of beans in a bicycle peloton. 😇

Indoors at home with someone infectious with a virus, yeah, it's basically about statistics, improving your odds. This stuff is so highly contagious that it's hard for people living in the same house to completely avoid exposure, but minimising it is also super helpful, as viral load at time of infection is a significant factor in whether you get ill and how badly. Because you're boosted etc, unless you have a totally defective immune system you are going to have an immune response to SARS-CoV-2 if it breaches your hygiene protocol, and the lower the viral load, the more likely your immune system is to be able to jump on top of it.

Also, last time I looked, the epidemiology suggested that being current with your boosters cut down your risk of symptomatic infection to just under 50% (the new strains are a pain), and considerably lowers your risk of getting a severe case - though sadly, long COVID is very common now, and the risk of that doesn't seem to reduce if you're re-infected. If anything, it seems to become more likely with repeat infections - and I really don't need organ damage or chronic fatigue or damage to my immune system. I just read a paper about that...

Anyway, you'll get good risk reduction with N-95s, good hygiene, don't eat close together, wash up extra well, use the shower before he does, air the bathroom after he uses it, air the house lots. Hugging with N-95s is low risk but kissing is sadly off the table. Thankfully it's only for a week or two in most cases. Are your N-95s comfortable? We discovered amazing soft ones with a great seal, which are even more comfortable than standard surgical masks, including to sleep in if you want to share bedrooms. There's a photo on page 11.

Cough suppressant is good if he's not producing too much phlegm - dry coughing irritates membranes and sets up more coughing, which in turn aerosolises more virus. With any respiratory virus, we've been using the standard cold sore support supplement at outbreak dosage (good advice from a locum once) - lysine, zinc, VitC - while it goes on. Also for COVID it's really important not to be low on VitD (same for my bone healing four years ago) but I see you are getting plenty of summer sun at the moment - while I would recommend supplementing to goths and vampires, especially in winter! 

Good-quality protein at every meal (not much needed but complete), antioxidants - eat lots of berries, cherries, blackcurrants, redcurrants, beetroot etc...

Good luck to both of you. 🖤




egrogan said:


> I’m supposed to do a weekend of endurance rides this weekend but I doubt I will go. Even if I’m still testing negative, and I’d be outside, it just feels wrong to knowingly be around other people who may not want to take even that slight chance, especially because so many of them are older. There is so little guidance though about self-isolation here. Do I wait to start my countdown until both of us are testing negative? Is it ok to go out to something like the ride and just stay masked if I’m negative but he’s positive? I really don’t know the right thing to do.


Hmm, you could ring a bell wherever you go, and wear a biohazard T-shirt. 

I'll dig up the current Aussie guidelines for you...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

OK, good general coverage from our ABC (non-Murdoch ):









Coronavirus


Updates and key information about COVID-19 from ABC News.




www.abc.net.au





Current guidelines for people testing positive and close contacts:









Timely reminder: How to respond if you test positive to COVID-19


There's more than 30,000 reported cases of COVID-19 in Australia every day but the rules are now more relaxed than the first two years of the pandemic.




www.abc.net.au





Really interesting articles I spied while getting these links:









The countries keeping Omicron deaths down have something in common and it's very simple


There is "a really quite important cultural difference" in Asia that epidemiologists suggest is having a dramatic impact on their daily rate of COVID-19 deaths.




www.abc.net.au













How we can overcome 'COVID fatigue'. Advice from a (very tired) GP


If you're sick of COVID, you're not alone, but still caring about it is vital to help protect each other, writes Dr Aletia Johnson.




www.abc.net.au





Plus I heartily recommend Coronacast with our excellent Dr Norman Swan:









Coronacast with Dr Norman Swan and Tegan Taylor - ABC


Coronacast is a podcast that answers your questions about coronavirus. We break down the latest news and research to help you understand how the world is living through a pandemic.




www.abc.net.au


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks for the articles Sue, will give a read today. Our masks actually are fairly comfortable. We were able to get a couple of packs of them when we realized we liked how they fit, so we have a good stockpile to get us through.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Excellent, @egrogan - all the best with it! Isn't it funny how a whole bunch of us fairly geographically isolated and comparatively low-mixing people on here are suddenly dealing with this at the same time.

I forgot to mention - laughter is good for immunity via stress release. So if anyone's got anything good... "Cute" stuff also tends to result in endorphin production. So here's a few fun clips...

Please make sure mask is sealed tight before laughing!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*POSTCARD FROM THE END OF THE WORLD*

On the up side to dealing with illness in the middle of our holidays, the weather has been truly foul over the last three days - cold, wet, windy, freezing gales straight from the Antarctic etc. Everything is now wet - puddles everywhere, soggy ground, mud in traffic areas. Even if I wanted to there's no way to ride on the Common without snowshoes under these conditions unless I want to tear up the ground and damage the soil profile through pugging and compaction. It's not quite as bad as last winter, when we had a record wet that did a lot of damage to the South Coast's roads, bridges, drains, pastures and hooves, but nearly. Here's the Common last winter:


Brett has of course been ill and I have been hibernating with him (not in the same room mostly) since it got too cold and wet to mulch fruit trees in the permaculture garden, which is what I was doing when we last had reasonable weather.

There's a severe weather warning for tonight, as well as a warning to sheep graziers to expect sheep and lamb losses from exposure unless the animals are in sheltered paddocks.

Here's the forecast for tomorrow and current conditions (closest inland station).


*Mount Barker Wednesday Forecast *








Windy with showers
Minimum 4 °C
Maximum 12 °C
90% chance of rain, 1-5mm

Cloudy. Very high chance of showers, most likely in the afternoon and evening. Damaging winds possible. Possible small hail in the W in the early morning. Heavy falls possible near the coast. Winds W/NW 30 to 45 km/h becoming W 45 to 65 km/h in the morning then decreasing to 30 to 40 km/h in the evening. Overnight temperatures falling to around 6 with daytime temperatures reaching between 12 and 15.

8pm temperature 9.1 °C, feels like 2.1 °C

Brrr. So it was time to do something about the animals. Julian and Chasseur have been in rugs for days - here is a photo of them from a sunny morning after a freezing night a few weeks back:

The donkeys can use a shelter if they wish, and often do - but with tonight's weather it was finally time to rug Sparkle, who is blind and our leanest donkey. Prolonged wet and wind chill isn't good for her. This is a photo from last winter:

I had let our eight steers into the 4 hectare horse-fenced area three days ago when the bad weather began, both to get them off the low-lying pasture and because that higher area has more pasture than our horses can or should handle. We've got annuals coming through now and I want the kikuyu (perennial African runner grass) grazed down as much as possible, both to make room and because it's frost susceptible - I don't want to waste feed with frosty nights returning when we get sunny days again after this storm.

But today they were due some nice dry hay, with the bad weather intensifying - having been on pasture and the soggy remains of their last bale for half a week. The problem was rolling the round bale - we don't have farm machinery, only hand tools, and Brett was in no condition to help. I can roll a bale on dry ground, but in a swamp?

Amazingly, it still worked - my usual technique is to push it with my backside, in reverse gear and getting under the bale's curvature, using one foot to wedge the bale if necessary while bracing for the next push. That way you're using the strongest muscles in your body, and not putting pressure on your spine - people commonly make the mistake of pushing things like that with their hands - cars included. No. Push with your backside - much easier and safer. A bale like that weighs more than a horse.

In the end, I rolled out two bales into the eating area because the one behind the first was getting water damaged anyway from being at a funny angle. Also, I wanted all of them to be able to feed at once, and if I don't unwrap the bale they can help themselves with two cows at each open end, so this way the smaller four wouldn't have to wait to eat.

So that's how I left them - with all eight steers contentedly pulling dry hay from the sides of the bale, and sheltered a bit by the edge of our garden, which is a windbreak filled with dense acacias etc. I won't have to worry about them in this storm, and tomorrow, when they're on a cudding break, I can let the horses out to have a pick at the hay.

The rain is coming down non-stop. The other thing to do this evening was to make a fire - we've not had one since our last guest was here just over a week ago. We've not needed one - initially there was enough sun to heat up our slab floor in the daytime; and we don't need to top up the heat until we've had two or three cold, cloudy days in a row because our home is so well insulated. That tally was reached today, so a cosy fire was lit. This will boost the solar-heated water too at a time like this. We have this model wood heater/oven:









The forecast looks cold for the rest of our holidays - Brett is back at work next week already. At least the rain will ease a bit for a few days from Thursday, and we may get some sun on the weekend, but it's looking cold all right - maxima between 12 and 15 °C for at least the next week. Riding looks on hold, tomorrow anyway. We do hike in weather like this though, when there's no illness in the house - but it's completely unrealistic we're going to hike seriously at all these holidays. I can hear Brett coughing his lungs up again and he's been at it for hours despite the cough suppressant - his lungs won't be fit to do serious exercise for at least 48 hours after the coughing stops...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

...OK, when you have lemons you have to make lemonade, so instead of bemoaning the lack of hiking on our long-awaited holiday, or riding either in the current weather, I'm switching to actually enjoying a hibernation holiday. Who knows, it just might recharge my batteries extra well so that I will be more energetic for riding and hiking down the track.

So the fire's on and I'm resting a lot. Without an enforced rest like this, I probably wouldn't ever do this for longer than a day or two if really exhausted. I've not done this in years either. At first I was spending a lot of time in bed reading because I was expecting to come down with this myself any moment and rest makes it less likely that it will complicate for me (with my susceptibility, paralysed vocal cord etc). Then I actually began to enjoy the free time not doing anything very physical. I even started plucking violin strings to get the muscle memory for the notes back, and discovered you probably can't do an Aeolian scale in first position - and I'm just a basic first-position player with a current repertoire of simple classical pieces and a few jigs, as well as a penchant for sound play, such as impersonating an ambulance siren. 

Or ad-libbing the shower scene from _Psycho_.






   ...that E-string! 🥳 I saw the Australian Chamber Orchestra play this live once, very funny moments coming up to that scene - with the audience and the orchestra dissolving into laughter when the E-strings were getting mauled...😂

Anyway, I'm digging up some stories while I'm unable to make any new ones. Because we all love our dogs, here's an ode I wrote to our Jess, farm dogs, and life in general, when we'd had her half a year.


*Red Hot Sunday, January 2014*
*(In Praise of Farm Dogs Everywhere)*

The day was red hot, and you could tell it would be a scorcher at dawn. The sun stung like a bluebottle at 8am, and the birds were silent. Horses and donkeys queued up at the paddock gate for fly veils and release onto the common, which is surrounded by bush and dotted with big shady paperbarks, under which green things still grow.

En route I’d cut my big gelding’s feet, overdue and summer hard, while the shed was still casting a morning shadow on the tie rail. The horn was like hardwood, and even the dog was hugging any cool concrete going rather than snacking on the offcuts.

After that we’d climbed into a lukewarm bathtub and splashed lazily, my darling man and I. We could feel the radiation burning through the blind covering the east-facing window in the bath recess, and the sun must have gotten to our brains because he started impersonating Napoleon, and I a telephone (“Brrrrrr-ing! Brrrrrr-ing!” like the priceless clip from Sesame Street called “The Martians Discover a Telephone”).






The dog did not come running, it’s had a good half year to get used to our theatrics, but when I cooed “Walkies?” she tilted her face to the side with ears as up as they can go – one ear a large triangular arrangement strongly suggestive of a desert fox, and the other with its tip bent over in the fashion of an ancestral Border Collie, from which she also got her colouring, while every other aspect is pure Kelpie. Excited bounds and relentless eye contact followed until she’d shepherded us out of the house in our summer shorts and T-shirts, and we collided with a wall of hot air.

By then it was too late to turn back – you just can’t do that to a dog that is blissfully anticipating a full-tilt run and her first swim in the 48h since her flea treatment. So we vowed to keep it short, and tacked towards the shady forest track, rather than the shadeless main track. An easterly wind blew like a giant hair-drier on maximum, but still offered enough evaporative cooling for me to rip my long-sleeved sunshirt off. By the time I ducked under the fence at the spot where the kangaroos tore out the bottom wires, to cross to our neighbours’ clean-water bush dam, sweat was beading off every square inch of my skin, and had the water been crystal clear, I would have jumped right in after the dog.

Instead, Jess and I had an abbreviated retrieving session. All dogs like sticks, but her favourite thing to pull out of the water is a nice big gnarly root knot at least the size of a pineapple, with a grab-handle of stem on it. The bigger the splash it makes, the more fanatically she accelerates on her way to it.

I grew up with farm dogs, but Jess takes the cake, much as I loved my previous canine friends. She runs like a tornado, the fastest dog I’ve ever seen, all lean, lithe, muscular, tucked-up running machine, a black blur streaking through the landscape. She keeps well ahead of any horse on any ride, and is the only dog I’ve had who outruns me on my roadbike. Once we borrowed the neighbour’s four-wheeler and raced her up the gravel track on it. She was keeping to the pasture, crossing fence lines, jumping ditches, and keeping up effortlessly when our speedo hit 55km/h. Then we had to stop at the property boundary, while she gave us a grin and a tail-flick racing by, and started to chase rabbits without missing a beat.








Her swimming is similar. When I first saw her traverse a farm dam, not even retrieving, just swimming for the joy of it, I was gobsmacked by the keel wave in her wake, spreading out like a cone behind her. A dinghy, sure, but a 22kg Kelpie? Throwing something retrievable into the dam turns her into a hydrofoil as her chest begins to lift out of the water from the burst of acceleration that hurtles her towards her goal. A sharp click signals contact, then follow regular satisfied snorts as she paddles open-mouthed back to the shore with her prize. It’s deposited at my feet, she looks up with eyes flashing. Again?








For less money than a Buddhist course on mindfulness meditation, you can pick up a dog like her from a farm dog rescue centre as we did, and give it a good life, and you will have a resident expert on living in the present and enjoying the world, and a personal trainer and loyal friend all rolled into one. It’s priceless.

On this red hot day we quickly headed home, and the dog wasn’t arguing. There were pumpkins to re-water and a hundred or so establishing native seedlings and baby lavenders around the house to give a little top-up from the watering can for the anticipated extreme midday heat.

After lunch, the outside thermometer hit 45 degrees Celsius. Inside was, blissfully, 19 degrees cooler, even in our not-quite-finished, as yet curtainless, passive solar strawbale house. A ceiling fan is all it takes to keep us comfortable on days like this. The dog lies flat on the coloured concrete floor, and balks at the outside heat when I check the thermometer. When the floor gets too hard, she curls up in her armchair like a possum, nose sticking out between four paws all bundled together in an impossible origami shape.

Aah, the bliss of a weekend of leisure after ten days of work commitments and interior plastering – time for good food made in our kitchen, and reading the books we got for Christmas, relaxing and recharging our batteries. And what a totally different life to the one we lived until a few years ago, when we were both in suburbias of varying descriptions, through tertiary study and then fulltime professional jobs. Our tree change doesn’t mean we are working any less in an overall sense – building this house and establishing the property continue to be a huge task, and we are both in part-time external work – but things are different now, just right for this stage of our lives. It’s really the archetypal midlife back-to-nature, off-the-treadmill sea change / tree change move celebrated by a number of adorable Australian and English television dramas of the past twenty years.

I love life in the bush, and I hope this story made you smile. And maybe think about adopting a dog.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

That was some of your best writing! I enjoyed every word of it. You have so much talent.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Thank you, @knightrider. That was one I sat down and thought about and got into a mood for - I wanted people who didn't live where we do to be able to have a sort of sensory immersion experience (which is also what @Knave does so super well with her journal ). Also to express just how fabulous Jess is!

I always like the Sesame Street clip best though, hahaha! 

Brett is much the same but at least got some good stretches of sleep last night. It has stopped raining at last and the sun is out, so I might go back to mulching fruit trees (with soggy trampled discard hay). Also a tree fell across our driveway in the storm and needs chopping up and shifting. It will be nice to be out again.

The storm was so fierce and wet yesterday that the horses and donkeys stayed out in the forest until quite late and I went out with a head torch when they finally wanted to come in for their buckets!

How's things at your place? Any good rides lately?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FROM THE ARCHIVE*

When I posted photos of Julian harness racing from our archive, I thought I'd occasionally bring out a batch of photos that never got aired on my first journal. Here's some from July 2016 with a friend I met through work years ago, when she was still living on the South Coast. She is great with animals and jumped at the chance to do some horse handling and beginner riding. I have no riding photos of her because I had my hands full, but I love these photos and know some of you will too. The body language all around is wonderful! 🖤

This is with our ancient Romeo when he was nearly 32.













































Romeo had too few teeth for carrots, so he used to get Weetbix, peaches, plums etc.

Here's his plum eating technique.






He lived by choice mostly in the garden for the last five years of his life, mowing lawn which was green through the whole year long and getting ridiculously huge buckets of specially mixed senior porridge twice a day. My arms used to ache mixing them up.

He knew exactly where we lived and would look for us through the windows.

He loved camping in the garden and keeping me company when I was working around the house.

Also he was the fastest horse I've ever ridden, when he was younger - you could still see this when he was running around the paddock at age 27. He is the big-framed horse with the white socks.






Romeo lived until he was 34 and a half years old - then we finally had to put him down because we didn't want him to get debilitated. But until then, he had a great life and also a great last five years living in our garden and spoilt by all and sundry. He was a lovely character and totally deserved all the extra TLC we took over him to make this possible.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

...and here's some from the same day of Cecilia getting Sunsmart ready to ride!













































...and off we went, without a third person to record the riding on camera. Cecilia was a natural with balance, posture and animal communication, very easy to teach. Also she did a textbook mount and dismount the first time she ever rode, after seeing it demonstrated! Yoga is very helpful for being able to do this, in adult beginners. Sunsmart took lots of beginner riders around and nearly everyone who had done yoga had no problems at all getting on, off again, and doing the posture/balance thing!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

SueC said:


> And this is a photoshop job Brett did to place Simon Gallup near some Texas Longhorns as part of a COVID education push:
> 
> *Social Distancing with Simon*
> 
> ...


In the feed stores here they have used tape to mark lines on the floors so that people will stay the appropriate distance apart. They say One little piggy, two little piggies...being 2 pigs lengths will be over 2 m., not to mention, if you work on a pig farm, the smell will take care of it too.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> In the feed stores here they have used tape to mark lines on the floors so that people will stay the appropriate distance apart. They say One little piggy, two little piggies...being 2 pigs lengths will be over 2 m., not to mention, if you work on a pig farm, the smell will take care of it too.


Maybe the stinky boots @ChieTheRider is talking about would also be really helpful for this purpose!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*A SPLISHY-SPLASHY GUMBOOT WALK*

What can you do when there's illness in the house and the rain has been coming down for ten days so that all the low pasture is turning into a swamp? You can't do your planned brakes-and-steering work with Julian anywhere because it's too wet, and the only places you can ride are on straight vehicle tracks and fire breaks through the bush. Plus you've not ridden in nearly two weeks and you're feeling icky from hibernating and broken sleep with the awful cough that racks your husband dozens of times a night and nearly has him vomiting.

Something has to be done. The dog needs walking and I need fresh air and exercise. The horse needs something to continue our team building work. And this is what the pasture areas look like.

So I picked up the halter yesterday and kidnapped Julian (who was very happy to be kidnapped) away from his herd for a splishy-splashy gumboot walk. I do have excellent gumboots, thanks to Brett surprising me with some last winter. They're green and filled with synthetic fleece to keep your feet warm, and the outer is well-made. My husband has a tender concern for the state of my feet. They're not allowed to be cold. If I'm not wearing my ugg boots around the house in winter but barefooting it, he brings them to me and makes clucking noises. (He says they're growling noises. 😁) If I find myself in bed with cold feet, he will go heat a wheatbag and wrap it around my toes, then smile at me conspirationally. And when the record winter hit last year, and our fancy expensive neoprene gumboots had both sprung leaks within a year and just after the expiration of their warranty, he couldn't stand the idea of being in the office with warm feet while I clunked around the farm in old-style rubber gumboots guaranteed to give you chilblains no matter how many socks you wear in them. So I had to have these expensive luxury fleece-lined boots because he said my feet needed them. 💞

I love my husband. Life with him is all the things that were lacking when I was growing up. When I was a teenager, nobody cared if I had cold or wet feet - they were more concerned about saving pennies so they could buy more racehorse yearlings. Now I have warm dry feet, love, respect, fun, teamwork, tons of affection, wonderful company, interesting conversations, shared adventures, super-healthy food, an egalitarian household without assumptions about gender roles, a male in the house who washes dishes and vacuums and doesn't try to shoo me away from the power tools or the shovels, and so so many more things that mean the world to me. I can be me and am treasured for it. He knows who I am because he has cared enough to get to know me, instead of projecting things as many people do with their children or lovers.

So I went splish-splashing in my green fleece-lined gumboots and mountain thermals through the quagmire the other side of the Common gate with Julian splish-splashing along. We got to the farm dam and climbed up on the wall together. There's a good view from the top. Then on across the Common, to traverse Scary Brook. That took a little convincing from me this time - I jumped across and back again several times before Julian sighed and said, "If I must!"

But you should have seen his ears pri'ck up and his eyes crinkle when I told him what a clever boy he was for jumping across Scary Brook and what the heck is the monkey thinking today, a horse is not a goldfish surely...Jess on the other hand can't get enough of water, even in the cold. She was gambolling along, delighted that the world appeared to want to become a massive swimming pool. Things got a bit drier as we turned into the Middle Meadow and walked slightly uphill. The Swamp Track was covered in puddles. At the end of it we turned left and went up the ridge to the Eastern Forest Track. Hooray - no puddles. Also, we don't come here that often with the horse because it's quite rocky, but his feet aren't freshly trimmed and he wasn't complaining. There were lots of interesting things to see - first walking parallel to the neighbour's gravel pit, then the open pasture with mountain views, then bushland, then bull paddock - with four massive Angus bulls in it, talkative because spring is approaching.








These are some of the neighbour's bulls - he has a breeding programme for pedigree stud bulls and four of the bigger ones were across the fence from us yesterday.

They moo'd, and I moo'd back at them - while Julian had a good look at these massive animals. They are over twice as big as the bigger steers on our place at the moment, with a great temperament. You can go right in with them; they're hand fed from weaning and get their heads scratched etc.

We checked out the machinery shed and farm implements too from across the fence before turning the corner along our northern boundary and heading home. As we came down off the ridge and onto the splishy-splashy flat, I took the halter off Julian and made sure he knew he was free. But he doesn't run away - he just walks along companionably, checking out this and that - it's much like walking Jess off-lead. When we got to Scary Brook, I jumped across, and managed to turn back just in time to see him do an almighty leap as if he was in an eventing competition with a water jump! I applauded him, he kicked up his heels, and cantered past the farm dam to the Common gate, where he stood waiting to be let back into the utility area, sniffing my sleeves as I undid the gate handles.

Maybe I'm not doing brakes and steering practice, but this was still worth doing!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*SHORT RIDE*

Two weeks after the Friday I last rode Julian, when Brett walked around the valley floor with us before getting in the car to see his family and in doing so pick up a virus because _someone_ wasn't wearing a mask even though coughing and his own N-95 had to come off during mealtimes, Brett was finally well enough to attempt a half-hour walk, and I decided to saddle up Julian and go with him.

We splish-splashed through the quagmire again while Brett went through the fence behind the house onto higher ground to avoid this mud bath. I was in my hiking boots this time, which are water-resistant but got disgustingly covered in black ooze as we made our way through. I was flinging it off my feet like Monty Python's Ministry of Funny Walks.






John Cleese would have had no trouble ground mounting a horse - look how high up he gets his feet, and effortlessly. 😎 The dude coming to see him in his office, I think he just has stringhalt. 

Around the back of the house, and clear of the water, I tightened up the girth again (thanks @Knave for reminding people that it is supposed to be a two-step process and that's especially important when you're starting out saddle training). Once we were sorted, I heaved myself onto the horse, a bit ready for shenanigans because it had been two weeks, but there weren't any. We just uneventfully walked up the track together, but it felt good to be back on the horse. It's also a lovely view, after being stuck in the house.

Buzzy (in his winter rug, it's icy today) and Nelly had tagged along with us for the first half of the central track, but then they turned back and the rest of us continued on. When we got to the gate we parted company. Brett walked back the way he came, while Jess, Julian and I went up the hill you can see behind us here.

This was a photo from another day, but it turns out I was wearing the same clothes today, and the weather looked about the same, so it's a good likeness.

We've not ridden this ridge much before, because of the footing, but he's learning what "watch your feet" means and doing well avoiding sharp rocks. I need to think about whether I want to get boots for him. Riding unaccompanied on the ridge, I decided that if I can't do steering and brakes practice on the flats, I might ride loops of the bush tracks instead and treat those like the trotting jog-track I did Sunsmart's initial work on. It's time we were trotting, seriously. We practiced a few halts up on the ridge and after a while could see Brett through the trees as the tracks converged again. There's no reason we can't ride loops and start working on faster gaits. So there's a plan. If you can't do Plan A, then you have to do Plan B.

This is the Western Forest Track, looking south - the sandy part near the intersection that takes you back to the house:

Julian really did so well again today. I love the way we are tuning into each other now. We came down the ridge the same time Brett was back at the intersection and I took the saddle off him by the side of the house, for which he stands still perfectly and knows exactly what happens when. Once the bridle was off, he rubbed his head against my arm rather gently and then meandered down around the house with me instead of joining his friends in the meadow. Brett opened the gate to let us all in - and now it was bucket o'clock.

✨🌟✨​
I have some archive photos of Sunsmart at the equivalent early training phase. This from my first week of work with him back in November 2008, at his previous home:








I was riding him in the gear available there - my own saddle was down in Albany with my mare. It was an awful saddle that fitted neither the horse nor me - it belonged to the high-withered, narrow gelding I was jumping as a child in Germany, same saddle as in those photos - so I padded it out across Sunsmart's back and just grinned and bore it for the couple of days I did sessions working him around the jog-track in the background just to get walk, trot and canter established in the same place he was already used to doing that in harness. It's really easy to do things quickly that way - the footing is soft, the track is oval, and if the horse doesn't stop it doesn't matter, he will when he runs out of steam and no harm done. But since harness horses already understand the gait transition cues, that's not an issue - it's really about getting them used to doing the same things carrying a rider as pulling a cart. Posting the trot is the thing most likely to raise an eyebrow for these horses at first when you go up a gear from the walk, but I've never had one buck or spook when I set that up with them.

When I got Sunsmart down to Albany in April 2009, there were trails and also a public dressage arena for people to use. Here's a photo from a first ride in the arena. This really confused him - he couldn't see why anyone would want to trot or canter in a space that small, as a racehorse used to large roomy tracks. He also had a habit of stargazing, both in harness and early on under saddle.








Later that year, his head carriage was so much better:








I've got a ton of photos from various things to do with his early saddle education in my archive and think I might bring that out some day just to enjoy the memories of our journey together. ❤


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I love what you said about the boots. That made me smile.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*SUNNY SATURDAY PHOTOS*

Though still coughing on and off at night, Brett is getting longer stretches of sleep between those bouts. He's also eating much better, though not back to normal. This morning he actually felt like getting out of bed and going for a walk. Was I coming? Yes, but I was bringing the horse - just on the lead, we have some preparation to do for the next ride.

The sun is properly with us and there is no rain on the horizon for now. We might get a fine weekend - it's certainly a fine sunny morning. Brett had his iPod and got some photos on and off. I'm posting a lot of similar ones just so you can see little details like how much the dog is running around:






















That dog!  She's so hilarious. Look at her body language! She loves walking with other animals. And look at the donkeys, hahaha! 

If you see me walking in front of a horse, it means there is a narrow animal track which is single file only, as there is in this case, through the bush grass. As the camera angle changes you can see this track in the next series, and the donkeys walking through it. The body language between Julian and me while we wait is nice, and the dog is again hilarious. The donkeys are going all over the shop.












































We soon lost the donkeys, because it was walk-trot, trot-walk transitions on the menu today - with as much running as I could handle. This is a specialised trotting horse, so even at full stretch and sprinting I can barely keep up with what to him is just a comfortable medium speed. He paced half a mile in under 57 seconds and his race record is 1:59:4 for a mile (on a slow, half-mile track, not a speed track).

So at full sprint he will maintain 14 metres per second over half a mile, which is an equivalent of 50.5 km/h (31.3mph). That's quite a clip (and that's just trotting, they gallop even faster of course). Over very short distances, we've clocked Jess doing 55 km/h as a young dog running on grass - she's a predator species so has to be able to outsprint a fast herbivore, but the advantage is over in a few seconds because that peak speed can't be maintained for as long as a herbivore can. Predators rely on surprise and ambush - not on ongoing sprint races; that would be too energy inefficient.

If you want to compare those speeds to Usain Bolt, that gifted individual ran 100m in 9.59 seconds, which is 37.6 km/h, but since this is a standing start race, it's good to note his peak speed was clocked at 44.7 km/h for that famous race.

So even Usain Bolt couldn't keep up with Julian trotting. And I am not Usain Bolt! 

It's quite exhilarating to try though - makes you realise just how fast these horses are when you're running full pelt next to them and they're going at a comfortable medium pace looking sideways at you as if to say, "Forgot to eat your Wheaties?" Sunsmart used to look at me pointedly if we were on the trail and I'd come off to walk beside him for a while to open gates, stretch my legs etc. He would stop and be like, "C'mon, I want to run now, get on my back, enough slowcoaching!" and off we went again. I used to say he considered himself my special needs wheelchair.

This is one reason I love riding trotting horses - the average riding breed is lucky to trot half that speed. Arabians, Morgans and gaited horses are known for their ground-covering gaits as well - my Arabian mare wasn't as fast as the harness trotters, but won every gymkhana saddle trotting race I ever entered her in.

I had a look online to see if there was any clip to give people who've not ridden harness trotters an idea of the speeds they get up to. Here's "jockey cam" off the winning horse at a mounted trotting race in the Netherlands.






So they really can fly. I've shown that clip with reservations because I'm not into horse racing, or the idea of pushing animals already at the biological limits of their performance - I've seen too much go wrong - lungs bleed, bones shatter - but more than that, the horse racing industry is just a giant meat grinder where most of the animals end up in dog food tins sooner or later. The ones I have are amongst the very lucky few who found a life worth living after their racing retirements. Most racehorses are done by age 7 - and not because a horse is old at 7. A riding horse is just coming into its performance peak then. Sunsmart and Julian are lucky to have retired completely sound - neither were raced as 2-year-olds. Chasseur is paddock sound only after getting a permanent tendon injury.

But they are beautiful horses and great fun to ride.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The ton of trotting we did today and the up and down transitions are preparatory to getting serious about that under saddle. Because of the lack of continuity in riding lately and because I'd like to focus on trotting next, I just wanted to make sure the cues are there before the next time I hop on, and they certainly are. Julian was quite enamoured with the idea of chasing down the dog and didn't need to be told twice to trot. The trot a trotting bred horse offers as a starting point when you're exercising it on the lead is about like an extended trot in the dressage ring and then it wants to go up from there to really stretch its legs (that was with me running flat out) and hopefully go into flight mode after that (only possible with me in the saddle). They can trot more slowly as well, but they're just keyed higher and love to go floating off.

Ditto with the walk - and @egrogan's Morgan mare outwalks most other breeds she's riding with too. Morgans are genetically related to American Standardbreds - the fastest Morgans contributed to the breed. Julian is a Standardbred with mostly American lines - his father (and Sunsmart's) was a champion US import called The Sunbird Hanover.








Ah, Sunbird - he was a personal favourite and such a lovely character, with a huge sense of humour. Sunsmart and Julian both inherited so much of their appearance, temperament and odd quirks from him - and Sunbird was so similar to his own sire, the legendary Albatross.

Brett wasn't going to run today for obvious reasons, so we just ran up and back a lot and practised stopping, turning, transitions. Later on I sat on the fallen Casuarina trunk waiting for Brett while Julian had a chance to look around. Next we shortcut up to the Western Forest Track via the animal track where we also take guests on eco-walks. I have a picture of that from the top end from a while back when we were riding, and did this trail from the other end (with me getting off to walk as it was a first).

The acacia flowers are coming out and it's very beautiful on that trail. We went around the top of the ridge, then descended back down and looped into the central track again. A few more trots, then we took it easy and the halter came off Julian. It's fun when he free-walks with us. He gets a lot of scratches over his mane and back which he appreciates on these walks, but not so much when he's at leisure! He has a keen sense of personal space but shrinks it down when we work together.

He and the dog had a little race, after which he went cantering down the track ahead of us. Running opportunities are limited on the waterlogged pasture just now, so he enjoyed the chance to fly. And I'm looking forward to riding him at those gaits. We've had a few very short trots so far, but now I'd like it to be a routine part of the programme.

We have some photos of what happened when we came home. First - Nelly and Ben were waiting at the edge of the woodland.















Then the horses decided to come in from the meadow to hobnob with us.








Meanwhile the cattle were eating hay...








Julian wanted to come into the top part of the garden.








Donkeys aren't allowed in the upper tier because they eat my daisies and fruit trees. The horses do not.

Ben and Don Quixote have given my native grasses a trim and I shall have to put a hot wire back around these again this spring.








You can see how boggy the drainage areas in the utility paddock have become.
















Also note the horse-level hedge trimming of the tagasaste (tree lucerne) around the edge - the untrimmed parts are now flowering and providing winter nectar for the bee hives.








These animals were badgering me to brush them. So, I spent about a quarter of an hour doing that, with all of them going, "My turn! My turn!", before heading back to the garden. Brett had hung up a blanket to air which was flapping in the breeze, so Julian was eager to leave the top tier of the garden.

After that I asked the donkeys if they wanted some rosemary from the giant bush. They enjoy it.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

..and look who came to join us again...















Julian decided he could dare to have another shot at the upper garden tier with the flapping blanket on the washing line, now that I was there. After all, it has a private stand of clover...








I thought I'd get my boots in shot just for @TrainedByMares, who is devoted to his Ariats. 















Now that I was in the garden, the flapping blanket was no longer scary, and Julian went on an expedition.








He discovered some young tagasaste...








Meanwhile I picked a ripe tangelo off a tree. If you've never had one of those - it's a grapefruit/mandarin cross, and my favourite citrus. It's a tangy juicy mandarin-like fruit with extra zing. I gave the peel to the highly appreciative donkeys - they love citrus peel like kids love sherbet. When Julian came to check us out, there was no peel left, but I offered him a bite of the tangelo. He sniffed suspiciously, but took a nibble - about two segments. He seemed in two minds what to make of it, and shook his head at me when I held the fruit out to him again. He seemed to think it was an interesting experience, but sufficient already.

Then he decided he wanted to leave again, having exhausted the victuals and entertainment.








Nice Saturday morning!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC, I like exploring pedigrees so looked up Albatross to see how far back you’d have to go to find Morgan. Looks like when you get to his 5th generation back (horses generally from the early part of the 1900s), some of them have a parent or grandparent that was a Morgan.


Albatross Standardbred


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

I love the great pictures and story! What a fine day! You have so many interesting places to explore and finding great eats like tangelos just tops it off!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

egrogan said:


> @SueC, I like exploring pedigrees so looked up Albatross to see how far back you’d have to go to find Morgan. Looks like when you get to his 5th generation back (horses generally from the early part of the 1900s), some of them have a parent or grandparent that was a Morgan.
> 
> 
> Albatross Standardbred


Do you see any common ancestors with any of your girls?

It used to fascinate me to see some of the common ancestors between my Arabian mare and some of the Trotters/Standardbreds we had, way way back in time. Arabians were bred into those for speed, together with native cart horses and Thoroughbreds - who themselves had a fair dash of Arabian. You should have seen Chip. He looked like an Anglo-Arabian and competed in a short endurance ride between racing engagements. He was neighing so much with enthusiasm at being with so many horses they couldn't hear his heart rate but passed him based on everything else.  I must dig up a photo.

How are you two doing? Have you got the lurgy off DH or managed to avoid it? Has lovely hubby recovered? I need to head over to your journal because I want to know what happened to your weekend plans.




TrainedByMares said:


> I love the great pictures and story! What a fine day! You have so many interesting places to explore and finding great eats like tangelos just tops it off!


I'm glad you're enjoying the reports! It's great when there's a bunch of people living in different interesting parts of the world writing journals where you can see the scenery and hear about working on the land and living with animals, and a bit of philosophy and cooking and veggie growing etc, and you end up corresponding in a group like this - many of us also live out in the sticks so this is a big social outlet for me too and I've become really fond of people here. They are like your favourite characters in a book except they are real and you can talk to them! 

I'm enjoying digging back through your journal too, and the interactions on it. I am fortuitously up to the same season that we have now, half a year offset, and sympathising with the mud and rain and icy winds!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Ready to go down the rabbit hole? 🙃

Five gens back for Albatross, you see a Standardbred stallion called Guy Axworthy used three times. He must have been quite a hot ticket! This is what his entry in All Breed Pedigree says about him:


> Breeder: John H. Shults, Port Chester N.Y. ATR#37501 Sired 454 trotters, 48 pacers, 110 sires. Died 3 July 1933. Sold Nov 1907 $8100 then resold 23 Nov 1916 at Old Glory Sale for $20,000 (dispersal of the late Jacob Rupperts Sr Hudson River Stock Farm at Poughkeepsie. Bought by Harry S. Harkness. Spending most of his stallion career at Walnut Hall Farm, Kentucky, Guy Axworthy had two sons who were prominent in extending this sire line - Truax, the grandsire of Titan Hanover, who sired Hickory Smoke, and Guy McKinney, the first Hambletonian winner, who is the grandsire of Florican. Florican's sons and grandsons are keeping this line alive. In particular, Sierra Kosmos, Florican's greatgrandson sired super-mares No Nonsense Woman 3,1:54 ($1.26 million) and Fern.











Three gens back for Guy Axworthy, on his dam's side, you come to a Morgan mare called "Young Daisy," who was apparently a grey Morgan- quite rare now, there is basically only one modern line where you can find grey and it's not bred from much. Young Daisy goes back to a Morgan stallion called Black Hawk (1833), who most Morgans will have if you go far enough back- all three of mine do through sons of his called Ethan Allen 2 and Ethan Allen 3. Black Hawk was a champion trotter in his day and said to be the model for the horse weathervane that shows up extensively across America, especially in New England. His full skeleton is on display at the University of Vermont Morgan Horse Farm, which I visited about a year ago. Here's a little history lesson on his skeletal restoration if you're interested.








So, if you look back to 1833, all of our horses are related via Black Hawk 😁

Everything here is about the same, lovely husband's Covid test was still positive yesterday but he is asymptomatic at this point. I'm still negative. I'm only going out to do shopping if needed, otherwise we're pretty much home bound. The weather is miserable- the air is thick and humid, bugs are swarming. The horses are barely moving but fortunately they are drinking well. The dog really only wants to go outside to do his business and otherwise is parked in front of the fan. I'm ready to fast forward a bit to better health and better weather!



SueC said:


> You should have seen Chip. He looked like an Anglo-Arabian and competed in a short endurance ride between racing engagements. He was neighing so much with enthusiasm at being with so many horses they couldn't hear his heart rate but passed him based on everything else.


I loved this story. Whenever I'm volunteering with the vets at an endurance ride, it puts everyone in a great mood when a character of a horse comes up to be examined. It makes it so much more fun when it's clear the horse is thoroughly enjoying the ride as much as the rider is!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Wow! That is interesting ancestry! I did a far look back on Bones’s once. I did an excell sheet and went as far back as records were kept. It was fun and yet I felt a bit odd that I was much more interested in that than in any personal ancestry. Lol

I think it’s good Brett went for a walk today. My first bout of covid ended up with some pretty nasty pneumonia. I learned later that one is supposed to force themselves up with covid, or the pneumonia sets in the lungs. So, when my family got it later it was a good thing we were gathering cows and they simply had to get up and work, and none of them ended up with the bad pneumonia. I mean, it was obvious when my hands and feet started turning black.

This round I kept myself moving all but one day. That day my migraine was so bad I simply couldn’t without a lot of throwing up.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Knave said:


> Wow! That is interesting ancestry! I did a far look back on Bones’s once. I did an excell sheet and went as far back as records were kept. It was fun and yet I felt a bit odd that I was much more interested in that than in any personal ancestry. Lol
> 
> I think it’s good Brett went for a walk today. My first bout of covid ended up with some pretty nasty pneumonia. I learned later that one is supposed to force themselves up with covid, or the pneumonia sets in the lungs. So, when my family got it later it was a good thing we were gathering cows and they simply had to get up and work, and none of them ended up with the bad pneumonia. I mean, it was obvious when my hands and feet started turning black.
> 
> This round I kept myself moving all but one day. That day my migraine was so bad I simply couldn’t without a lot of throwing up.


Hands and feet turning black?? Serious?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Yes @TrainedByMares! I was really sick. I had some dog amoxicillin I started and then crossed over to some smz’s and then back to the amoxicillin. I had called the clinic but they said they wouldn’t really do anything for me if I had covid. I could go to urgent care which is like 100 miles away. I decided to just treat myself as I saw fit. It took a bit to knock that pneumonia. The one thing I did learn from the clinic was that you weren’t supposed to lay around. I wished I was told that before that point. It seems like valuable information that should be put out there for everyone to understand!


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Yeah, I just read about it. Severe pneumonia can give you bluish hands and feet!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

OMG, @Knave!  And migraine on top of everything...

If the pneumonia is viral (which the primary pneumonia in severe COVID is), then antibiotics won't help and may hinder because they knock out your good microflora across the board. If it's a secondary bacterial pneumonia, it will help and my life was saved by a dentist neighbour when I was three years old after my bacterial pneumonia had apparently been misdiagnosed in the hospital as appendicitis and they had recommended taking my appendix out. The neighbour gave me antibiotics. I was already hallucinating for hours and remember the fever hallucinations.

Masks help prevent secondary infections when you already have a virus, and help stop the spread of the virus. Also very useful if there's dust around which is a great source of secondary bacterial infections for compromised lungs. Because it's winter here, it's also good outdoors for making the air warmer and moister before you breathe in.

We've now got access to antivirals if we get COVID but they have to be taken early in an infection for best results.

The staying up and about is often good advice. Apart from when we had the worst flu of our lives just before the pandemic and were mostly in bed two weeks straight because so debilitated, we're up and down indoors on hibernation days, and outdoors if conditions permit. Brett was vacuuming before he was braving the cold outdoors! Because of my lung damage from that early pneumonia, for me personally it's always been a good thing to avoid exertion when actually or potentially coming down with something - breaking into a sweat or breathing cold air will always set me back, even when I already feel better - we've gone on hikes when I felt mostly better towards the end of an illness and that always without exception knocked me flat again for days, so I have to restrain myself and just potter until I'm properly recovered. With respiratory infections, that is - other things aren't in that category for me.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Totally understand why we're more interested in our horses' ancestry than our own. It's fascinating, and the stories...@egrogan, that was so super cool what you found out!  Wow! Your Morgans and Julian/Sunsmart all related through Black Hawk! I've been digging with Chasseur after I read that. He's non-Albatross as far as I can remember, but that doesn't mean Black Hawk can't be in there somewhere way back. His immediate family isn't on the database, but I will go digging in the trotting database...also of course, there could be an unsung mare somewhere way back that I have no idea looking at the names is Morgan! I'll keep you posted.

That skeleton, funny how they displayed it - with the hindquarters collapsed down and the cannon bones not straight. Also no idea what was going on with the skull - where are the lower incisors? That whole section of jaw seems missing but hard to see on the photo. This is all super interesting and thanks for posting. Imagine Black Hawk dying at 23 and I've been so miffed Sunsmart didn't quite make it to 25 when Romeo made it to 34.5...

Note for rest of post below - the Australian database pedigrees aren't hyperlinking properly - still trying to fix this - meanwhile - the French mare's name was Dame du Buisson and can be entered directly in the name search as "DAME DU BUISSON FRA" in the uncooperative website which keeps reverting back to the search page...









_Dame du Buisson in 1982_

OK, @egrogan - here's the page to get to the pedigree of the French mare I was jumping in that photo, who was chestnut but the Australian database incorrectly recorded as bay (and unraced) when she was imported, plus all her European progeny's breeder name is misrecorded (the breeder name for all her European foals was Lichtinger) and they don't have their race records either. This is a straight French Trotter, not a Standardbred - though some Standardbred was bred into the lines, and it is in those lines we are going to find Morgan. In the French lines there will be European cart and carriage horses, TBs and Arabians. Lots of the pedigree names hyperlink to take you back further and it would be so interesting if you recognised some of those names way back as Morgan!

OK - rabbit hole. I just went to a French database and searched for Dame du Buisson's parents for more information. Lei Volo was her dam and born in 1955 - meaning she had Dame du Buisson at age 24! She was European bred except for the paternal grandmother who was Viola Sunshine (1922) - here's that pedigree on Allbreeds:



Viola Sunshine Standardbred



Also way back on Lei Volo's maternal side was an American mare called Winnie de Forest (1918)...



Winnie De Forest Standardbred



Dame du Buisson's father was Nonant le Pin (1957), and he is on Allbreeds:



Nonant Le Pin French Trotter



Nonant le Pin was mostly European lines except his paternal great-grandfather, The Great McKinney (1922):



The Great Mckinney Standardbred



I love all the old names back pre the 1950s especially... 


Dame du Buisson is Chasseur's grandmother and Sunsmart's great-grandmother (Sunsmart is out of Chasseur's full sister).


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@bornabadfish hasn't been around in a bit but here's something fun - Robert Smith, Simon Gallup and Jason Cooper getting together with Paul McCartney's son James to do a Beatles cover. Beatles songs are so like Wiggles songs, especially the McCartney tunes - and Brett and I call Mr Smith the Dark Wiggle because of his propensities on that side of the bell curve. It does make me smile how the singer is getting into this, and really channelling The Beatles. 






In other news, it's still raining and yesterday was so cold it was snowing on Bluff Knoll. You can't go anywhere outside without making squelching sounds and the cattle have made a quagmire around their hay bales and I can't do anything about it other than roll the next one far away when they finish what they have. The horses have been in rugs for days. Brett was due to go back to work yesterday but can't because he is still coughing. He works at a medical practice and they are very strict that no staff member can come in while still symptomatic with any kind of respiratory infection - and that is on top of all staff wearing masks, having all their flu and SARS shots, and being meticulous with hygiene at all times. They have had zero staff-to-staff transmission all this time, and the staff cover each other when anyone is symptomatic. 😎 He has to go to town today for a PCR test for work - it's either going to show what exactly he has, or that whatever it was is no longer shedding.

I escaped it and hope @egrogan did too. We met Brett's old (now retired) practice manager walking the dog yesterday and swapped stories of avoiding household transmission with a combination of immunisation, N-95s and hygiene. Household transmission is the hardest to avoid but quite a few staff and families have done exactly that, which is excellent. 🌻🌺🌼


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Kaz Cooke is one of my favourite Australian authors - if any of you have pre-teen or teenage girls in your lives, _Real Gorgeous_ is such a must-have classic and fun antidote to the so-called beauty industry and to the tripe about beauty in many girls' and women's magazines...


















Real Gorgeous by Kaz Cooke - 9781864482263 - QBD Books


The truth about body and beauty. This bestseller has already brought confidence and fun to thousands of girls and women around the world in need of an image boost. 'Real Gorgeous' delivers no-nonsense information about size, shape, self esteem ... - 9781864482263




www.qbd.com.au





Kaz has a new book out!












> _You’re Doing it Wrong_ is an outrageous tour through the centuries of bonkers and bad advice handed down and foisted upon women, told as only Kaz Cooke can – with humour and rage, intelligence and wit.
> 
> Come with Kaz on a laugh-out-loud frolic through centuries of terrible advice, from 14th-century clergy to the Kardashians (wear a dress made of arsenic, do some day-drinking, have sex with a billionaire biker, worry about your vagina wrinkles). It’s also a roar against injustice, a rallying cry for sisterhood and a way to free ourselves from ludicrous expectations and imposed perfectionism.
> Kaz’s own 30-year history of interest and experience in advice – from her newspaper etiquette column to best-selling books, including _Up the Duff _and the _Girl Stuff_ series – and years of archives and research have culminated in a full-colour, exuberant shout of a book with hundreds of wacky and sobering historical photos of objects and instructions.
> _You’re Doing It Wrong_ examines what we’re told to do (change shape, shoosh, do all the housework), and what we’re not supposed to do (frown, have pockets, lead a country). It covers sex & romance, paid work, fashion & beauty, health advice, housework, and a motherlode of mad parenting instructions – from witchcraft to beauty pageants, with a side of aviatrixes. Put the kettle on and settle in.


from -









You’re Doing it Wrong: A History of Bad & Bonkers Advice to Women by Kaz Cooke


You’re Doing it Wrong is an outrageous tour through the centuries of bonkers and bad advice handed down and foisted upon women, told as only Kaz Cooke can – with humour and rage, intelligence and wit.




www.penguin.com.au


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FIRST EXTENSIVE TROTTING SESSION*

We worked up to it with cue revision on the lead and short gentle sitting trots in our mostly-walking rides so far - but today was the day to let the cat out of the bag and have a proper trotting session, as I would have done a while back if I had access to a harness jog track where taking an ex-harness racer to trot under saddle for the first time is the most hassle-free and safe place to do it - because the most they will go if you miscommunicate or the horse bolts is a mile and a half and then they warm themselves down automatically.

I've never had a horse bolt on me on a track re-training it to saddle, but I have had a horse run away with me in harness on a racetrack when I was trying to do a pacework session as a teenager. I'd done this before for horses just coming up, but this was a horse in full work and this was my introduction that harness racing horses are cued differently to riding horses - for them, dropping the reins means stop and making contact with the reins means run! So this mare was in pacework speed (= about 80-90 seconds for the half-mile) when I wanted her to slow down a little, which meant rider me half-halted her and then increased resistance - and the mare leaned fully into the bit and took off sprinting (= about 60 seconds for the half-mile)!

That was a wild ride. I was thankfully wearing sunglasses but I'd never driven a horse that fast before and my face was getting painfully pelted with gravel to the point I couldn't think straight. I had enough presence of mind to keep supporting the horse to run the straights and bends as normal so we wouldn't have an accident (this would happen if a panicking person used to riding tried to one-rein stop for example, you never never do this on a harness track). Meanwhile I just sat there getting my face pelted and trying not to tip out of the cart from the enormous centrifugal forces on me around the bends while the mare did an 800-metre sprint and then warmed herself down. The horse's owner laughed. She was a good mare and I honestly don't know how people drive races without face shields.

Re-training a harness racing horse to ride is a little different to training one from scratch - and I've done both. The re-training is a much faster thing because the horses already have so many established cues and a work ethic. But you also have to get them used to what you're going to be doing differently - e.g. riding instead of driving, doing lots of walking, learning rein-back, establishing seat and leg aids, cueing differently through the bit than when in harness, not running everywhere at a million miles an hour, turning tight circles instead of turning like a supertanker, doing lots of up-down transitions, learning to do slower paces and tempi not just what is part of race training, and riding trails, jumping logs, mounted games, basic dressage.

And while I've saddle trained half a dozen ex-harness horses, some just for bare basics, several to competition level riding, I've always done this with access to their previous harness training facilities for the first stage, so I could ride in environments already familiar to them doing things that they already knew how to do, for starters. And, on an oval track it doesn't matter if your horse runs away with you if something goes drastically wrong. Worst comes to worst, you would just do three laps at race speeds before the horse warms itself down.

So this is the first time I've done the first fast and extensive trots with an ex-harness racer on a trail instead of on a jog track. It's a familiar trail and we've done lots of preliminaries - this is how we went!

The sun shone brightly for the first time in days. Everything is still muddy. The horses were already worked up because they had been chased by a bee. I managed to calm Julian down enough to tack him up, then we tiptoed our way around the quagmire near the Common gate as best we could, sloshing over inundated grass until we got around the back of the house to the higher-altitude bushland. There I tightened his girth and got on him. We had Jess and Brett along because both wanted to. (Jess kept up, Brett didn't. )

We started by walking as usual, then I cued Julian to transition up. I had a thin branch to help cue him (having forgotten my riding crop) because this time I didn't want him to slow down again after a dozen steps, as per past riding practice. So he knew this was business and did the usual thing an ex-harness horse does when you ask for a proper up-transition - he got into a pacework speed pace! This was fine by me, I take what they offer and work with them from there when we first establish trotting. So I don't mind if they pace at first because we can distinguish between trot and pace later. If I stop the horse immediately and ask him to trot, he may get confused and may get the idea that I didn't want him to go to a faster gait, and that way lie unnecessary misunderstandings.

So I rode what he offered, which was a steady pacework-speed pace, and did it posting - first time I've posted on him. He didn't get bothered by that at all, which is great. I kept softly in contact with him through the bit, and about 200 metres later, half-halted him to slow him down, and then transitioned him back to a walk. Well done! Lots of praise and a rub over the shoulders, which he likes. Then we turned around and walked back to find Brett.

Julian is a hot horse who gets excited by speed. This is why we've done a lot of relaxed walking in our initial riding so far. We have established that we can do relaxed walks and this is a normal part of the programme when riding. It's a building block we will now be able to keep coming back to.

When we reached Brett, I turned him back around the other way. For a moment he got ready to run again straight away. This is part of the harness training autopilot - once the horse is doing pacework, you might change direction in training. You come back to a walk to do this, but the moment the horse is facing straight again, his job is to go off at pacework speed straight away. He was clearly wondering if that was the expectation. I half halted him and talked to him and seat aided him for walking, but for about ten seconds he was super toey and felt like he was going to lift off vertically into the stratosphere, and he kicked out behind. I got Brett to pass us and just walk in front of him - to be the herd equivalent of a calm, experienced horse showing him what happens next. He's used to walking behind Brett from our first mounted sessions and immediately relaxed again when he understood we were just going to walk calmly as we have lots of times before.

A minute or so later, I asked him for another trot, and this time, got an actual trot, not a pace - excellent! On soft sand horses do prefer trotting to pacing anyway, he was just undoing harness autopilots there at first. It was again a pacework speed trot - around 25km/h - not a jog and this would be quite a surprising speed to people who don't work with harness horses (or endurance breeds who can really trot), but it's what a harness racing horse considers a comfortable intermediate speed.

Again I let him trot at his offered speed with soft rein contact, which means I had my first extended trotting stretch on Julian, and can report that he has a lovely soft trotting gait to ride. 

Just like Sunsmart did, and his great-grandmother did, and my Arabian mare did - and as horses with nice sloping shoulders and good athleticism generally do. The choppiest horses I've trotted were riding breeds with straight shoulders. There was one mare called Ceijka at our riding school when I was a child, who was the loveliest, friendliest thing on the ground and a kind, responsive horse to ride, but OMG her trot ! On the trails we tried to skip the trot and go straight to canter with her.

A good trotter will be floaty and feel like you're levitating. It's a really effortless feeling for horse and rider and one reason I got hooked on harness horses - which first happened when I was riding Sunsmart's great-grandmother. That was such a brilliant experience. 

So hooray! We had such a lovely long floaty trot today, levitating down half the sand track before gradually slowing down, and returning to a calm relaxed walk. Well - that was textbook already on the second try.  We walked back until we found Brett again, turned around, and had a third trot nearly to the end of the track. Slowed down again, circled in the little clearing by the south gate, rode back to find Brett, and then we all just walked the rest of the way - it's always good to keep new things relatively short and to end on a good note with something new. Halfway up the ridge, I hopped off the horse and praised him lavishly for his excellent work. We all walked and talked. Julian was blowing a bit, and just slightly starting to sweat, from the trotting! They don't do things by halves, these horses - and we will gradually work on getting slower tempi, but do it all in a relaxed way, until we have the full repertoire. It won't take long and the main thing is to do this calm and relaxed and without upsetting the horse - I'm super happy with today and really looking forward to our next rides!

Halfway along the top track I got back on the horse. Brett commented that he's textbook now on mounts and dismounts - we might have taken a while to do Julian's early saddle training and stretched it out a bit, but you know what they say - don't hurry with horses, it will take longer! We could have done more and progressed faster, but circumstances were what they were, and the upshot is that I now have a horse who's relaxed and happy when ridden, learns quickly, is cooperative and curious, and as of today has all the basics established that I want to see established before I am happy to trail ride a horse (we have no other options just now with all this inundation) without necessarily having anyone else home in case something goes wrong. I'm confident that we're now good to go and everything else will just be time and practice as usual.

I can't remember which ride this is and am no longer counting. Ten, perhaps? A dozen at most? And mostly with a week of space in-between. Once the weather permits it, I'll now be able to ride him whenever there is a spare moment - as nobody else needs to be home from now on. I don't plan on overdoing it - I want him happy. 4-5 rides a week is about my maximum anyway.

When I took saddle and bridle off him behind the house, we had a very good ear-rubbing session and then he rubbed his face gently up and down my sleeves for a good minute or two while I told him what a wonderful horse he is. We both had smiles from ear to ear. As usual, he followed me in at liberty and I made him a feed bucket to enjoy. He's now back out with Buzzy grazing in the sunshine and I'm very happy that I now once again have a horse with whom I will be able to go riding on my own without having to worry about how green he is. I'm sure I'm going to have the odd spook along the way but we're now past the blowing-up zone of re-education. He hasn't blown up and is unlikely to.

I nearly threw it in altogether when Sunsmart died. Thank you especially to @knightrider and @Knave and Queen for providing inspiration and direct encouragement to keep going when that was not an easy thing for me to do.  And also to everyone else here who wished us well.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Yay!!!! This ride sounded amazing! Isn’t it a hard to describe emotion, maybe excitement with a little pride and a lot of relief, when you get through that first day that you up the speed?


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I am so delighted to read this. Thank you for the compliment. I was thinking of you when I was encouraging you to ride Julian. I was thinking about how much fun you would miss out on if you didn't. It lifts my spirits to know it worked out so well.

Leave it to me to be the one person who got badly hurt while riding on a racetrack. The horse I was riding was a known bolter, and when he bolted out of control, he stepped in a hole and flipped. The inner edge of the racetrack was never groomed, and I guess he was taking a shortcut. I have no memory of it, but people told me what they saw.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I’ve never had a wreck on a track. The only riding I’ve done on one is a place we used to show at a lot. They tend to run both arenas for events during some shows, so the place left to warm up is the track. I may have had a little runaway, but I pulled her into circles, and it was common for her to do that.

I guess I will see it again soon enough. The big girl has gotten a job in town that is more of a career type of job. She’s excited. They are working hard to bend some rules for her to get to start now and go full time after graduation. It’s a great opportunity. So, she wants to stay and she asked yesterday if there was an avenue to show. I told her yep, if she’ll drive truck and trailer, Queen and I will jump in and will run a full season! Lots of the shows are there, so I will see the track again.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Great news about big girl and my best wishes to her, @Knave! 🖤

I was going to ask you how your different horses' trots feel to ride. I imagine Queen would be quite forward and elastic, and Cash sort of elky, you know, long legs, a bit of inertia from being huge...fill me in! Zeus I imagine has the highest beat...

And you are right about that feeling. It's funny how we're both feeling those things and even you feel relief, and you practically live on horseback! 

@knightrider, oh no! 😵 You've had such hair-raising incidents and I'm glad you are still alive. I fell at speed once, with the horse, like you. My father had done up a wire gate without telling me about it, on the one stretch on the farm I could gallop horses flat tack on a long sandy track, and we hit it at speed. I still don't know how horse and I walked away uninjured (though blinking rather rapidly). I was a teenager and much more elastic.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Cash feels pretty smooth believe it or not, but Queen can move any speed and feel like glass. She is by far the smoothest mover I have ever ridden. Even Cash by far beats any of the quarter horses I’ve ridden for smoothness.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

So glad to hear it's going well with Julian and that you're enjoying the riding!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Thank you, @gottatrot.  What's happening with Aria at the moment? I seem to have missed why you're not working with her just now. Is she OK? Or do you have really stormy weather or something - like we have today?

@Knave, do you think the smoothness is because both of them are from mustang stock plus selected by you for conformation, temperament etc? QHs were specifically bred for short sprints, cow work etc and probably aren't as all-round as mustangs or as amenable to activities requiring continuous exertion rather than bursts and rests?

@TrainedByMares, we've not heard from you a while - hope everyone is well at your place.

Today is stormy, otherwise I'd have been up for more trotting. On the good news side, Brett is so much better, and stopped coughing two days ago. He went back to work yesterday. His PCR came up negative for everything they tested for, including SARS, influenza, RSV and a few others - so we don't know what it was because he probably stopped shedding by the time he had the test. He has his appetite back too - he was off his food for two weeks - so we had celebratory gozleme with orange/fennel/radish salad on Thursday night - those are Turkish spinach/feta pockets - there's abundant spinach in the garden just now (and also a rabbit I need to turn into a roast grrrr but I don't have a gun and we can't find the burrow).



Very easy to make - just do a wholemeal pizza dough in the breadmaker, with a little olive oil in - then roll out rounds and fill with steamed spinach/silverbeet, crumbled feta, and lots of freshly ground pepper (four-colour pepper is so good I've never gone back to just one colour). Cook in a hot frypan in a good splash of olive oil. It's ready super quickly and tastes amazing.

This is fennel and orange salad:

...but it's even prettier and tastier with radishes cut into it. Dressing is just lemon juice and olive oil, although the Moroccans like to put pomegranate seeds all over it as well.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I have been riding Aria, we cantered the first time the other day.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

So you did, @gottatrot - sorry, my bad! I just re-read the last page of your journal and there it is! I knew you were riding other horses and thought you'd said somewhere yours were out of action. I knew why Hero was, but was scratching my head about Aria. But there was Aria photo and all! She doesn't look like a pony in the picture but you talk about her as a pony so I must have skimmed and gone, "Someone else's horse!" 🎃

So I read it again. Isn't the brain funny - sometimes it sees what it expects to and not what is there, even if it's clearly there. Or it skips stuff that's there. We used to do this demo with students which actually is fun to do anywhere with anyone you know. You get people to take off their watches and put them in their pockets - assuming they wear such a thing, which less and less people seem to. And then you give them a piece of paper and ask them to draw their watch face from memory. This is something many people look at multiple times a day for years. And yet most of us have very little idea what our watch faces really look like because what our brain focuses on when we're looking at our watches is reading the time off them. So unless someone is really in love with their watch or has spent time studying it closely in the past, they're usually head-scratching trying to draw the face and laughing when they compare their finished drawing to the real thing!

Well! 😄 Hard drive error.

How lovely you're now properly trail riding with her - and had your first canter! I think that's a good way to introduce canter, just doing it when the horse naturally would in the terrain. And she looks happy and pleased - you both do! Good to hear Hero's issue is responding to treatment and I hope he will continue to.

On a related note - our 10yo dog Jess started Pentosan injections last Christmas because she had gone acutely arthritic. The first round made her so much better! Then it declined again with time so she was back to spending nearly 24/7 on her sofa even when I was going out - that was so not her. The vet said to bring her in every two months if necessary for repeats. I am doing this. She got a bit better again with time and started being more keen to come out in general, not just when we said, "Broom broom!" - outing with car and hiking away from home, which she never ever turned down yet.

But something else happened three weeks ago. Because she's an old dog she has a few lumps - some of them lipomas, some apparently foreign bodies. She had one such near her tail, for two years, about the size of a large marble and under the surface rather than protruding. The vet said that if they don't bother the dog it's best to leave it until there's a good reason for a general anaesthetic, and then those things can be taken out while you're fixing a bigger problem. And that lump near her tail was hard, round and encapsulated.

Three weeks ago she was looking a bit distressed out of doors and came running to me. She was licking next to her tail. I had a look and at first I thought it was an embedded tick that she had bitten off. There was a little pink area and a depression in it. But she was reacting rather strongly, so I palpated around and realised that the old lump was under that pink area, and I massaged it gently. And then something disgusting happened - toothpaste-like stuff started coming out. So we had an evacuating abscess, two years after it formed. This is a good thing...but very late, it had been inert all this time.

Many years ago I watched a veterinarian evacuate an abscess on a rabbit, about the size of a golf ball, endless amounts of very smelly lumpy toothpaste-like stuff coming out just like toothpaste from a tube. I had a bit of an ick reaction to toothpaste a while after that. 🤢

Jess' abscess wasn't smelly, but it's amazing how much came out, just like toothpaste. When it was finally done I got some antibiotic eye ointment out of the fridge and filled the evacuated cavity with that. Then lavender oil on the surface because it's antimicrobial, soothing and stops dogs licking. It healed uneventfully in a week.

Today when we were walking the dog and watching her throwing around her old haggis of a soccer ball and catching it and pouncing on it and shaking it with wide-eyed fun and lots of athletic moves, and wagging in delight at our part in the play, we remarked how she's not been like this in years. This morning too, she was all bright and playful on her sofa when I said good morning, and she ended up rolling on her back, wiggling, making snapping sounds with her teeth and getting so "crackerdog" she put her own front leg in her mouth until I got her a toy, which was then thrown about. Just as she used to do when a young dog. We've not seen her limping in over a week.

So we think it's a combination of things, including the Pentosan, increased eating of raw fruit and veg we offer her, the fact that she now always waits for us to lift her up on her sofa, gentle walks every day we aren't hiking with her or she's accompanying the horse. But we are also thinking that not carrying a pocket of pus around in her may have been very helpful. It was encapsulated, but that doesn't mean it wasn't leaking endotoxins these two years. And we all know how things like periodontosis can leach endotoxins which can actually damage heart valves etc.


In other news, @Knave, I have in a small way this evening joined the club you and your big girl are currently in. Just in a small way... I was rugging Julian when he leapt sideways because of something blowing about in the storm. Straight onto my toes, where he stayed until my strangled scream rapidly moved him off me, and I mean rapidly, which meant even more force temporarily applied, and in a shearing way...That reached about an 8 on the pain scale, and lasted a while. Nothing broken, but when I finally took off my sock after the animals were fed, I saw the cuticle had been torn off the nail of my big toe and the skin scrolled off its first joint, just superficially. That first joint and the adjacent toe's is hot and swollen, and I dare say I will get a purple toe nail, my first in years.

And it's exactly the same toe that Sunsmart jumped on in 2009, and on bitumen, when I first led him around his new environment when he came down to Albany before we had this smallholding, and he spooked big time at an Appaloosa! He'd never seen one of those before. 😱 👻

And that was also exactly the same toe that our first ever horse, in Europe when I was a child, jumped on, also on bitumen. How do I know? It scarred the nail bed, and I have the resulting groove to this day. Must be my lucky toe!

Not to mention my lucky foot. This is the side that got the badly sprained ankle back in 2009 when I jumped off Sunsmart without looking at the landing strip first, after riding back to a landline to get help for a rider with a broken collar bone - and I landed right on a fist-sized rock. And this is the foot that had the three broken bones in it from my accident in 2018...

I must be footed, not just handed. I'm right-handed, but I reckon I'm left-footed and that my left is the one slightly forward when I stand, thus giving horses splendid opportunities to jump on it. You know how most horses are footed when grazing, and have a side they prefer to stand forward? Greg our farrier friend reckons that it results in slight differences in hoof shape that accentuate as they get older.

My left hoof is definitely trying to change its shape I think!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

That is crazy about the abscess being there for two years!!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Yeah, I know! How easy it would have been to drain it... and all this time...

It was never hot, she never bothered it, just a hard lump never changing in size.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Yikes, very odd on that abscess but what sweet relief! Glad to hear Jess is back to being frisky!

Your watch brain teaser made me think about a brain game I used to play with an old friend I worked with after I graduated college. We both liked road trips, and tried to stick to the backroads so we'd be driving through some interesting small town or landscape, and stay quiet for 5 or 10 minutes just watching the world go by. Then we'd compare notes on the things that caught our attention. Without fail, we always noticed and highlighted different things, even though we'd be in the the same car in the same place. Isn't that funny?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I am happy for Jess at the relief she must feel. We do a lot of draining abscesses, and it’s not my favorite thing. Yet, I probably would have enjoyed it if it weren’t for the smell. I do enjoy removing ingrown hairs and the like. It’s just the smell with an abscess… oddly I’ve never had much a sense of smell either.

For your question- I think it was simply luck. I am not any good at confirmation. Cashman I picked because he looked gentle I guess. I don’t know. There were these videos of the horses, and he was one the better ones. I was shocked in person that he was a giant! He wasn’t the best broke, but he was close it seemed. Queen I followed this dressage foal guide, and it was about movement.

I don’t think a mustang is bred for anything besides survival. I’m assuming there are many different types of animals. There are definitely many looks to them, and I was raised on stories of mustanging and the horses they caught.

The no neck horse I talked about is a mustang. You should imagine him. He’s not tall, maybe 14hh. From behind his cinch he looks normal. Maybe even well built. From in front of the cinch the neck and shoulder seem to be one part, thereby making each non existent. Maybe one would see a massive shoulder, but really petting him and studying him the shoulder is wrong.

His neck is about six inches long, and then his head is normal. One vertabre sticks completely out the side of his neck. Anyways, he was wonderful! You would think he would be unathletic, but that wasn’t true. He was kind and good. I rubbed his neck and he decided we were best friends. He tried to be expressive, but he can’t turn his head all of the way around. Neatest thing! It was as if he belonged stuffed in a museum like all the lupin calves, but here he survived and has this excellent life!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Brett just told me that today is Robert Smith & Mary Poole's 34th wedding anniversary, so here's a few songs on the occasion. These two met in high school drama class and Brett often says he wishes Richard Fidler would do an interview with Mary because that would be so interesting. She's very private but we bet she'd be fascinating to hear on one of the _Conversations_ podcasts - and we mean outright, not for her connection to a public figure.
















Here's one Robert Smith wrote in his late 40s, which has embarrassed a lot of fans because too much information etc plus cultural stereotypes about how you're supposed to be knitting after the age of 35. I thought this was a fantastic thing to write and wrote reams in its defence on a fan forum. Someone has to set the record straight and this song certainly did that. This is for anyone 40+, married and still breathing.






And last not least - this is the song where Brett always says, "And then Mary asked him to take the rubbish out, so he wrote this!" 😇


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Here it is again live - such a wild ride - and fabulous facial expressions.






We may as well have _Anniversary_, though it's not necessarily about a wedding anniversary at all - really interesting lyrics. The cover of this album is Robert Smith as drawn by one of his many nieces and nephews when they were little.






And because it's a difficult proposition live, we went looking for it.






Fabulous band and I never knew this from their radio songs. ❤

Here's a song famously written as a wedding present for Mary.






And because the forum formats allow five clips per post, we'll go out with a dark number about love and loss, written for the film _The Crow_. The film is about a couple who are murdered by gang violence on Halloween, the night before their wedding. One year later he returns from the dead to avenge the death of his love.






The drumming and guitar on this are outstanding. I once listened to this on my iPod when burning a bonfire at night when it was pitch black with the sparks flying into the air and that was incredible... when that guitar in the midsection started, it felt like liftoff and flying.

Music is so wonderfully humanising. Happy anniversary to this singer and his wife. ❤


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

SueC said:


> Thank you, @gottatrot.  What's happening with Aria at the moment? I seem to have missed why you're not working with her just now. Is she OK? Or do you have really stormy weather or something - like we have today?
> 
> @Knave, do you think the smoothness is because both of them are from mustang stock plus selected by you for conformation, temperament etc? QHs were specifically bred for short sprints, cow work etc and probably aren't as all-round as mustangs or as amenable to activities requiring continuous exertion rather than bursts and rests?
> 
> ...


Thank you for thinking about me @SueC . Not too much positive to report so I have been quiet. A week ago the contractor doing windows and siding on our house discovered significant rot in the walls, floors and roof of our house. Since then, it has been eat,sleep, work. I am trying to keep up with reading my favorite journals.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@TrainedByMares, I'm sorry to hear you've got structural issues to sort with your house - it's a huge job and would be so unexpected. And it's not like any of us on smallholdings don't already have neverending to-do lists. You don't need something major just dropping on you like this. But shiitake happens, and in time hopefully it will turn into good compost...

And just because you're male and may not be used to ranting or venting to your friends like many of us women are, I would like to present you with ten complimentary ranting/venting vouchers. I know a lot of guys like to be head down, tail up, push it down and get on with it, but feel free to share the negative too, instead of having to be a good-news, positive-thinking beacon _all_ the time. Also should you like to curse for the benefit of your blood pressure, I have a kit you can use that doesn't violate forum policies:





__





Shakespeare Insult Kit






www.pangloss.com





We want to have your back around here. Positive vibes beamed from the Southern Hemisphere.

@Knave, now I need a photograph...just trying to visualise. The shortest-necked horse I ever rode was a friend's modern-bred Standardbred rescue, who was lovely to trail but because I'm used to horses with long long necks, it was a bit unsettling to feel like I was at the edge of a cliff, especially on the down transitions...

How are your injuries healing up? How's big girl?

I have a true story for anyone who needs cheering up...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

OK, so this was something I wanted to post for everyone while I was on the theme of love, anniversaries etc. I related it elsewhere and thought you might like it too.

*CAROLINA'S STORY*

When I was a kid I read this novelisation of a true story about a 13-year-old girl who had gotten orphaned in the earthquakes in northeastern Italy in the late 70s. I felt that very earthquake as a littlie, but we were quite a way northwest of the epicentre and it only shook our furniture. Carolina lost her mother when the house collapsed - the father wasn't in the picture, having died years before in an industrial accident (and all of these details and the ones that follow were true). She had nobody left in the world and went to an orphanage. Then there was a drive to foster kids from the orphanage out to families for school holidays, to help them find some kind of joy again. The person who fostered her for the summer was a bachelor of around 50 who ran a shop selling devotional items for Catholics, who had a housekeeper, and also a local young schoolteacher offered to help look after Carolina for the summer, to make the case why this would be a good placement even though it wasn't a traditional family for her.

So she went there and just lit up the life of Antonio the bachelor, who by the way had a really high BMI and always thought that would be offputting to women. She was well looked after by the three of them (the teacher would pick her up for day outings several times a week while Antonio worked in his shop) and it helped her recover from some of her terrible memories.

She asked Antonio why he was a bachelor, since he was such a kind man and had his own shop and house etc. He told her the back story of having been engaged as a young person to a girl who died in an accident. He drowned his sorrows in food and wine and when he looked up again in midlife, he felt he was now too old and fat and what woman would possibly be attracted to him.

But Carolina had noticed that Antonio had a thing for her orphanage director, a widowed lady in her 50s. She put him on the spot about it and asked why he wasn't doing anything about that, and out came all these ideas about being too old and fat and losing his hair and the Signora was so beautiful and elegant and educated, what could he possibly have to offer her? Nothing Carolina could say changed his views about that. When she got back to the orphanage she put her head together with two of the other orphans who had been fostered out to the same town (different families) over the summer, and they concocted a plan.

Long story short, they played matchmakers for these two adults they loved. Initially they wrote fake anonymous love notes on Antonio's behalf, accompanied by flowers and left on the Signora's doorstep. They'd saved up holiday pocket money to be able to afford the florist, and they were trying to confirm their hunch that she was interested but also too shy etc. They were studying her reactions from various hide-outs, and when they were sure she was interested, they held an intervention meeting with Antonio in a café where he bought them all ice-cream and they insisted he had two glasses of wine before they got to the serious topic they wished to discuss with them. When he was sufficiently tipsy they told him what they had done and that the Signora was interested and now it was his turn, also they couldn't afford any more flowers so now he would have to do the flowers and cards.

He ummed and aahed and so forth, and kept saying. "But I'm fat and ugly, the Signora doesn't want to marry an Obelix." So Emilio, the boy, said they'd thought about that and he'd developed a fitness plan for him. (ROFL. All this was true, the author overhead these people's story in a café and got talking to them, took down the salient points of their story and made a young people's novel out of it.) So Antonio had to sign up for gym membership and to read nutrition books from the library and undertake to eat less spaghetti, while they would continue to smuggle flowers and notes onto the Signora's doorstep, this time really from him.

Anyway - their plan worked. The two started exchanging letters, and had some meetings, and eventually they did actually get married. After their wedding they asked the now 14-year-old Carolina if she wanted to live with them. All three of them had lost their prior families in tragedies, and it seemed to them they could have a shot at happiness together and be good for each other. Carolina accepted. It was such a wonderful story it had to be told, so the writer did exactly that. Not just because of the happy ending, but to talk about the reality of tragedy and how people can heal, by being kind and thoughtful to others in similar situations - and importantly, how people's harsh ideas about themselves can get in the way of their own and other people's happiness.

Isn't it funny though? So many kind people with many good qualities wonder what others would possibly see in them, while the posterior orifices of the world act like they're _entitled_ to relationships, are God's gift to women, etc.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FOLLOW-UP TROTTING SESSION*

The sun is shining, the ground in the pastures is sodden, the wildflowers are coming out in force now. Spring is in the air. Bees are buzzing, lovesick magpies warble all night under the full moon, Tawny Frogmouths go oooom-oooom-oooom, several different species of frog are calling.

Since Brett stopped coughing, he's been ravenous and making up for lost time in the food department. When we're not having main meals he's snacking on carrots, apples, snowpeas, assorted nuts, crackers etc. And now he craves sunshine and exercise, so out we went horse, dog and all to reprise that first extensive trotting session from Thursday this fine Sunday morning, and after lunch we're off to the beach.

Things went much the same as on Thursday except he's feeling totally solid already with all of this - no impending-rocket-liftoff moment of misunderstanding. He started by offering a pace again, which I let him do for a stretch and was then able to encourage him to convert to a trot - using the same seat cues I used to do that with Sunsmart, Chip and other "ambidextrous" horses, timed into a slowdown at the point where a horse finds it easier to trot than to pace given the option. And then I was, "Oooooh, look at you trot!" because while he paces efficiently, his trot really is something else. 😍

He was eating up the ground with his strides, while at the same time being relaxed and smooth - this may be 25-30km/h but it's nowhere near the 50km/h they do at full stretch. And he wanted to keep on going, and he would do laps and laps of this if we had enough dry sandy tracks to do it - which by October we will have. He was snorting and saying, "Let's go!" but also happily responding to slow-down cues, to requests to return to a walk, etc. His turns are getting excellent. When I asked him to trot on or to increase his speed, he was, "Yippee!"

I think we're going to have a fun spring/summer...and actually, I could start riding on my neighbour's block to the south of us, he has a huge grassed ridge which is out of the sodden flats and up to traffic already. So there's a plan. When the horse strides out like that you really need a bigger stomping ground. The horse feels so solid with the walk and trot and basic cues that I'd now be confident to take him on group trails if there were other riders near me. When you have a horse like this, the possibility of horses bolting in groups doesn't bother you. He's independent and he's sure-footed and doesn't care about the rest of the pack, as was the case for Sunsmart - he's had plenty of group outings on the racetrack and there he always did his own thing.

For variety we looped back the other way today, through the Enormous Boggy Patch and onto the Swamp Track. And who should turn up as I'm looking over my shoulder to watch Brett crossing the Enormous Boggy Patch in his gumboots, but Nelly and Ben, trotting rapidly to catch up with us!  What a lovely surprise.

So on the way back home, the horse and Brett walked, while the donkeys, in single-file with us, kept up excited little sewing-machine trots and hooted under their breaths, as donkeys will. You say, "Hello, Ben! Hello, Nelly!" and they do the semi-honks which are about equivalent to a horse's low nicker. And they do it in reply every time you're talking to them. 😍

Coming into the Middle Meadow we were suffused in the scent of Brown Boronias which grow in the bushland in the north-eastern corner of the block - a scent as floral and generous as jasmine flowers, but brighter, more complex. And on the grass it was back to puddles and soddenness - we really shouldn't be riding on it, but we stick to the animal highways in the pasture, the little tracks they use when moving from one area to another rather than when just grazing.

Brett jumped Scary Brook and Julian jumped after him, which earnt him unanimous human applause. And then we were back by the house, where I dismounted on a relatively high un-soggy bit of pasture, removed the horse's tack, and rubbed his ears - this bit is turning into a routine sort of post-ride love fest. As I picked the saddle back up off the ground, Julian took two big steps away from me and then sank down to roll in the grass. That's a post-ride first - now that he's getting sweaty, he's going to roll!

The best thing about it is that I can sense in the horse an interest in doing all of this and exploring the wider world. He'd like to trot longer, go further, see what's over the next hill, and together we can. His enthusiasm is transferring to me. ❤


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

That story about the orphans was wonderful! I am so glad you posted that. And I am SO glad you went back to riding. It's good for Julian as well as you. Good for Brett. too, isn't it?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm so glad there was an author present and overhearing Antonio and Maria's offer to Carolina in that café and that he dived in there and got the back story, @knightrider. They had all come to Gemona after the wedding to lay flowers on the graves of Maria's previous husband and Carolina's mother and to remember them. Lorenzo, the boy Carolina was sweet on, was with them and talking about studying architecture at university so he could help rebuild Gemona and the earthquake zones. I first read this book when I was 10, so Carolina seemed very grown-up to me! This was a book I read again and again and again through childhood and later adulthood because the central message of kindness and hope is just so nourishing, and also the characters are just gorgeous!

Lots of humour too, like when the housekeeper gives notice after 20 years of service because of a crisis in her own family and a disgruntled Antonio gives her parrot Volfango Amadeo secret language lessons, teaching him profanities! 😂

I told the above story to a circle containing shy people, one of which was a bachelor in his 40s who was just the nicest, kindest guy and so fond of his dog, but when I asked him about dating he said he is a Michelin man and he thought it was a bit late now. It has always bothered me that nice people like him remove themselves from the pool while nasty pieces of work are out there dating and thinking they are a great catch - I could tell you stories but I bet you've seen it too.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

A fun clip from a much-loved Australian series that had a way of getting us to laugh at typical Australian foibles...though I think this one would have worldwide application. I bet you all know someone like Bob Jelly.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

A very apt song for our times from a Perth band Brett used to go catch when he was living up there.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FICIFOLIA ROAD TO CONSPICUOUS CLIFF*

Today we finally got around to doing a proper hiking expedition. We had planned at least half a dozen of those for the fortnight's holiday during which Brett ended up being ill, a month ago. I've been home for so long I've wanted to scream - I normally only get out to town once a fortnight, although we usually hike or at least go on a local beach walk twice a week, but I'd so looked forward to our hiking holiday that I ended up with serious cabin fever. All I wanted for the whole of last week was to get away and go somewhere I've never been. And today we finally could.

We had a glorious weather forecast and headed out to Ficifolia Road near Peaceful Bay to do a section of the Bibbulmun we've never done. You can see it marked in green on the map.

Our first major walk this year was heading in the opposite direction and it's recorded in our hiking diary here if anyone wants to know what red-flowering gums look like during flowering season, or what the landscape looks like heading north from here. We've done that side twice, in fact, and I have been itching a while to get on the southbound section at Ficifolia Road.

As usual, we took a few crew photos when we got to Ficifolia Road.


Please note the artfully tilted horizon on the next photo. Also - yes, we do often just have to leave the car by the side of a road walking sections of the Bibbulmun track.

Next I was impersonating a vampire. We actually had several shots of this but didn't want to scare people who look at our online photo album, so we limited ourselves to publishing the most scary-looking picture, followed by one of laughing about it after.


And then we were off.



From prior drives up Ficifolia Road and from perusing the map, for some reason I expected this to be a mainly flattish walk through coastal heathland. Well! What we actually got was lots of woodland, not to mention uphill-downhill-twisty-turny walking - and tons of wildflowers the whole way, though I must apologise in advance for not having the time to do much close-up floral photography today.






Purple wreaths of _Hardenbergia_ were everywhere...

The vegetation variety was just fantastic - including a stand of Karri of the coastal rather than the forest ecotype in the background of the above photo.

After a while we got to more open country and could start seeing the surrounding landscape.

We then spent much of the time walking on some sort of dune ridge, with lots of grass trees scattered around.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Even in this photograph you can see the immense variety of botanical species just on a macro level - and if you get down and really investigate, you find hundreds of understorey species. To a native European, the biological diversity in the remnant vegetation here is breathtaking. The South Coast is a biodiversity hotspot - or what's left of it, because sadly, apart from a fair bit of the immediate coastal strip near the Southern Ocean, the conservation estate is piecemeal and only a small fraction of what was there just 200 years ago. Over 80% of the Southwest's flora and associated fauna have already been wiped out for what Westerners call development in that very small amount of time. For 60,000 years before that, the Indigenous Australians stewarded this biodiversity.









Satellite image of South-Western Australia. Remnant forest and woodland areas show up as dark green. Actively growing pasture and cropland show up as light green areas around the coast. Pale areas are dry agricultural land after the finish of the inland growing season. Reddish areas to the right of this are uncleared inland areas. You can see for yourself that European settlement wiped out most of the native ecosystems in the arable parts of South-Western Australia – in less than 250 years, which is a mere blip in geological time but seems to many like forever. Image from https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov

So there on that map the damage that we've done shows up loud and clear, although most people are so used to looking at images like this, and seeing largely denuded landscapes, that it seems normal to them. To a biologist this is as depressing as an X-ray of a lung riddled with cancer is to an oncologist. We know what it's supposed to look like, and it's not that.

At this point I'm going to play a song which we had on in the car going to this hike, because it's topical.






_Scream and you scream
This is not a dream 
This is how it really is 
There isn't any other this 
Is not a dream_

Though positive thinking is important to get us through everyday life, it's also vital not to end up with a toxic positivity that doesn't allow us also to face very difficult facts. We humans generally live in very small bubbles that insulate us from looking at the big picture. Also we are like frogs in a pot of water that's being brought to the boil slowly, so there isn't that shock reaction that you'd have just getting dropped into a pot of boiling water, even though the end is the same.

And because my husband and I live remote and quarantine ourselves a fair bit from the media etc, it seems to us we're forever getting shocked by the boiling water splashing over us when we get another little snippet on the state of human affairs coming through. If you don't live in the middle of the stink, you sure can smell it when you get near it. We are no longer habituated to what we were habituated to once - and it's such a bad idea for most of our species to be habituated to this stuff and see it as normal and, by implication, just the way things are, pass the butter. If you don't cultivate an outside perspective, you'll find yourself habituated to all sorts of disturbing things, and you'll be swimming upstream trying to see a bigger picture.

Returning to today's photos - here's a dead grass-tree disintegrating and serving as habitat at the same time.


Hibbertias...

We then came into a valley with a boardwalk crossover that meant nobody had to wade through a swamp today. And just on a side note, do you see the grass-tree growing on the steps down to the boardwalk? The one with the 2m trunk? If you look at the growth rate of these plants, they take 50 years to even form a stem, and the stem grows upwards at 0.5 - 2cm a year. So this specimen is around 200 years old, meaning that when it was a little seedling just starting out, the majority of the Southwest of Western Australia was still covered in native ecosystems like this. _And in its lifetime, more than 80% of that was bulldozed_. This should lend a little perspective to the rather short concept humans tend to have of time.


And then we were on the home stretch within cooee of the coast!


We talked as we walked along this bit, about how happy we always feel to walk in intact nature as it's supposed to be, away from the scarring on the earth that has been imposed by broadacre agriculture, industry and urbanisation. The biological riches of these areas are mind-boggling and took millions of years to evolve. This is nature for millions of species, not nature stripped away to serve but one. When we walk along in places like this, the ratio of humans to landscape is about right and there is a pervasive sense of balance.







At the very top of that hill is Conspicuous Cliff, which the area is named after. We plan soon to be going to that actual place - we'll drive to Conspicuous Beach, and walk from there, up and along that ridge and over to Rame Head and the camping site there, which we previously walked to from the east (documented second-up in the hikes here). Then we will see if the bees still have a nest in the camping hut, as they did last year!

There's some finale photos to come, from the lookout.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Near Conspicuous Beach, we joined the Lookout Track.


Jess got there first - and she's been here before!

This is Conspicuous Beach:


Here's our destination-point crew photos.


This is such a lovely husband. ❤ Pretty decent wrapping paper and incredible contents!

Here's what happened next. Brett took the camera to do some photos of me. While he was getting ready to take photos, I played a practical joke on him and told him his fly was open, when it wasn't. He found this out by visual inspection about the same time I laughed riotously at having tricked him. However, I am not the only one of us who is an imp. Can you guess what he did next? ...unzipped his fly, took photos and got my reaction. And yes, by the way, he _was_ wearing underwear. His, not mine (although I do sometimes ostentatiously offer him the loan of mine when he is running low). 😜


And then it was time for the return walk.

That was my last photo, just of the view as we started heading back. It was a really gorgeous day today - we felt the sting of the sun for the first time post-winter solstice. I was wearing sunscreen, but we didn't want to be on the beach in peak UV so didn't go down today. Instead, we walked towards the shade of the woodlands we had traversed earlier, and drove to an ice-cream place near the Parry Beach turn-off, which is also a meadery. Proper ice-cream made onsite with these people's honey, no multinationals, food additives or dodgy substitutes involved - served up in an old-fashioned cone. We had two scoops each, as we do each time we stop by this place - and one of those scoops has always been hazelnut for us so far, because we're both mad about their honey-hazelnut ice-cream. Because of this, we are getting through the rest of their flavours rather slowly. Today Brett's second flavour was coffee, and mine rosewater and almond. 😋

We sat in the sun eating this wonderful ice-cream - it created a real holiday mood. When we got to Denmark, it was 3pm and past the UV peak, so I took Brett out to a place he'd never been before, which gave Jess a swimming opportunity at the same time - I didn't have a camera with me for this one, but here's a photo a friend took last time I was there, of me wading.

One of just the channel:

The pontoon bridge you cross at the start of the walk to get to this place:


A few more days like this will be a welcome restorative.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*HOMESTEAD HAPPENINGS, CANNONBALLS AND OUR FIRST HOME-ALONE RIDE*

Ten days after the previously reported ride, I finally had a chance yesterday, with the weather and energy levels smiling on me, to do the home-alone ride that Julian and I were ready for.

Yesterday was terribly busy - early in the morning I dropped Brett off to work and then saw my GP to arrange some minor surgery on an injury. This has to be done by someone who specialises in hands (because they don't fancy accidentally cutting tendons or nerves). Then I visited the nursery to get seed potatoes and three more fruit trees, 25 native seedlings for gap-filling our road verge rehabilitation project, and various other bits and pieces - now the planting can begin on the weekend. Since the rabbit(s) totally ruined my attempts at growing broccoli and kale this year, I've given up on the winter brassicas and will be planting potatoes early in their place instead. If I had a gun, I'd be making rabbit stew as well, but instead we're going to fumigate and close their burrows - if we can find all the exit holes.

We get this problem every seven years or so, that the myxomatosis and other viruses brought in to control the feral rabbit population (introduced along with foxes in colonial times so the toffs could go hunting on horseback and make believe they were in Old Britannia) no longer do their job and the population explodes. Feral rabbits do terrible damage to the native vegetation plus uncollared fruit trees and any vegetables and ornamentals they can get their teeth into, and turn the ground into a moon surface with all their digging. Bill used to snare the rabbits, back when he was living off the land - I really would prefer to eat them, but think snaring animals is unkind, and our friend Tim, who was here when we last had a major rabbit problem and is a good shot as well as appreciator of red wine and herb rabbit stew, now (rather fittingly) lives in France.

When I got home from town I decided on the spur of the moment to ride, and to do it straight after lunch, before a whole bunch of other chores needed doing. I guess I could have planted potatoes instead, but it was too hot to dig and we've decided to have a gardening weekend anyway. Julian was in the upper garden while I had lunch, and afterwards helped me chase cattle out of the garden's lower tier on our way to the tie rail. He just has to look at them and they run. He was antsy from being in the garden by himself longer than he'd wanted to stay, so once I had him tacked up I walked him around the back of the house and a little down the track until I felt he was settled.

Then I got on him and had a pretty uneventful ride. I was thinking, "Wow, this feels comfortable and quite established, despite the 10-day hiatus!" There was only one little thing - at one point he was acting like he had an insect on his muzzle. This does actually happen, in the paddock and while riding - he was flicking his nose and snorty - and then I got it in my head, "What if it's a bee?"

I immediately had a minor mental conniption at the idea, accompanied by a feeling like I was being dangled over the edge of a dangerous cliff. @Knave apparently knows all about this. It is nearly spring here, and our horses occasionally get attacked by bees when they're going about their business during the day. You'd not want to ride what happens next, and I've never had the misfortune to. But Julian is in a class of his own there. Chasseur just runs off at a gallop like he's got a horde of pterodactyls after him. And so does Julian, but he was a sprinting specialist on the track. Chasseur AKA Buzzy is a French Trotter cross - that breed are the endurance, long-race specialists of the trotting breeds, traditionally doing 2500 - 3200 metre races instead of 1609 - 2150s, and he took after that line, as did Sunsmart.

Julian, however... he's a rocket-liftoff sprinter, with enormous turbocharge. He goes from nothing to flat out in an instant and was clocked doing 400m sprints in 26 seconds - that was his special ability, the sudden _whoosh_ that left others wondering what had just happened. And I've never ridden a horse quite like him before. Romeo too was a sprinter, super-fast, same speed over 400m and even faster than Julian doing 800m - and Romeo was Julian's uncle - but because he was a big, lanky horse it took him longer to get from zero to flat out than it takes Julian, who's small and muscular and has a proverbial bee up his posterior.

With Romeo you had a tiny bit of warning; with Julian you don't. My Arabian mare was of similar build and proclivities, an excellent gymkhana horse, and she too could therefore literally explode from zero to flat out - but she did not have quite the amount of gunpowder with which Julian seems to be hypercharged. I witnessed him doing things in the paddock that made me wary about starting to ride him in the first place. When he suddenly takes off after standing companionably with you in a field, it's viscerally frightening - and I'm used to racehorses and hot heads, and have been known to enjoy a wild ride on a horse turned loose to go at its own pace when it wants to fly, especially when I didn't feel quite so mortal earlier in my life.

I'll give you an idea of what I mean. Several years ago, Julian had an incident with a rug. I was taking off the maroon rug he was wearing in those days, when a wind gust flapped the neckpiece I'd just undone the first catch on and he went into instant blast-off from a standstill, thundering off into the middle of the field. The leg and belly straps were undone but the chest strap and lower neck strap were still done up. Because he was running, the rug blew up like a spinnaker and flapped around after him, which frightened him even more. The rug then turned around the neck so it was like an oversized bib, which he was running on. He shredded that rug into pieces while I looked on gobsmacked from a distance. I collected him half an hour later, when he'd calmed down enough to allow himself to be approached, to undo the little remnant fabric collar he was still wearing around his neck.

It then took two years before I could rug and unrug him again without having him first on a tie rail, and later just on a lead rope. He decided rugs were sentient beings with intermittent evil intentions. To this day I can't pull a rug straight off him like I can every other horse I've ever had. I have to fold the neck piece backwards and the back part forwards so the rug is lying folded over his middle, then slide it off like a saddle. With that arrangement, he is happy. Also I now always undo all the neck and chest straps before I go near the leg and belly straps.

About a week ago, we had an encore performance of "flying carpet ride" - I had just undone all the neck and chest straps when something suddenly bugged Julian, and _zoom_. Not again! Aaargh! He'd been normal for so long, nothing had been flapping in the breeze, but there was something that suddenly went _click_ in his brain even though a moment before he had been 100% calm and engaged in friendly small talk with me. And then, just like that - _BOOM_, a 500kg cannonball was getting fired right next to where I was standing. The ground shook and a massive object went hurtling past me like I was standing at the very edge of a platform with the Intercity speed train rushing by unexpectedly because it didn't stop at this station and I'd not seen it coming because I had my back to it and was plugged into an iPod. Out of the blue, this rushing of air right beside you while the ground shakes under your feet, and you go a bit pale and queasy thinking about what just happened.

This time the nice new rug survived with just one tear in the lining - very lucky. And he's OK again already with rugging and unrugging. But I am sure you can now understand why it is that I had a little mental conniption when I was riding Julian yesterday and contemplating whether he might have an insect in his ear or a bee beginning to take exception to him.

Well, it wasn't those things and I live to tell the tale - probably just a midge or a beetle or something else less of an invitation to cataclysm. Apart from that occasional nose-fling and snort, he did relaxed ground-covering walking, enjoyed having his shoulders rubbed while riding along, and we had several wonderful extended stretches of trotting - at the speed offered, which was, "Hey monkey, this is fun, let's go!" - the high end of a pacework speed trot, around 30km/h, so the wind really does rush by you and I'm thinking maybe I need aviation glasses for riding this horse. Jess, of course, is also delighted at the sudden development of faster rides, and I have to watch her so she doesn't get run over while she comes to terms with the fact that this horse is a faster sprinter than she is these days.

It is fun to ride like this, and Julian is in many ways safer when going at speed than when walking along. First of all, he never stacked it in his harness training or racing - even with emus on the training track with him as a young horse. Now that gets most horses, but it never got him - he decided instantly that he has to race them, and would pelt after them if they were going in the same direction. Thankfully, if they were racing around in the opposite direction, he'd continue his own programme unbothered and avoid collisions. Emus are like very fast, oversized racing chickens, except in the breeding season, when the males decide they have to attack things. On the track, they enjoyed parity with horses doing pacework.

So it's not that Julian is at all timid, especially when he knows what exactly is there. It's just that he's very reactive and explosive about noises or movements when he doesn't know why they are happening. Most noises and movements, he does understand the source of, but like everyone else in this world who's not turned off their brains yet, he's still learning. He does learn rapidly, and when he's not got a flapping pterodactyl attached to him, he reins his own explosions in again within a second or two.

This brings me to the main reason going at speed is often safer than walking, particularly on an explosive horse like Julian who is also a seasoned sprint specialist - because when you're already going at 30km/h, he can't accelerate as rapidly and unpredictably as when he's at a standstill, having already reached half his terminal velocity. Granted, when you reach these speeds you also have to take sudden decelerations and direction changes into account - but those are less likely than rocket lift-offs, in part because a horse feels safer during an alien invasion when it's already running than when it is standing still. Also - I think most of us who have been riding (as opposed to plodding) for decades have by now developed rather serviceable sticking-to-a-horse-when-anticipating-rapid-braking autopilots.

So I'm happy to ride Julian at a flying trot, and indeed, when Sunsmart was just starting on trails, I deliberately put him into a trot if I felt he was getting too looky or I thought there was something in the environment he might take exception to if we hung around for long enough. The nice thing about these fast trots, compared to galloping, is that they are beautifully balanced and stable to ride, and make the horse steadier with direction changes if startled than if you were riding the same speed at a canter or gallop.

Further into the session I began to encourage Julian to try out some more moderate trotting speeds, and he happily obliged. I walked him up the ridge and noticed then that he was out of breath from his efforts, but not nearly like they are when actually race training. It's good to know I'm going to get some of his spare, ahem, rounding off him in time for spring flush. Last night I locked everyone up for the first time, into the utility paddocks and driveway. They can graze the driveway strip and snack on straw (essential for donkeys, and also nibbled by horses) - I will be restricting grazing for Julian and all donkeys for the next 6-8 weeks, by reducing pasture access and employing muzzles. Also Julian will be able to do some proper conditioning now that we are at the trotting stage.

I dismounted on the ridge because of the pointy rocks, and we walked and talked. He's learning to avoid rocks and what "watch your feet" means (@Knave won't have to do this with her mustangs, who didn't grow up on in sand yards and on manicured racetracks). I could have jumped back on when the track turned sandy, but decided to walk with Julian instead, eventually heading for the sand patch behind the house, where I untacked him and he instantly held a personal rolling party - one of the best spots on the property, deep clean sand made loose from being a cattle sunbathing area (and by some miracle they're not soiling it - it truly is a miracle if you know cattle, who do number ones and twos freely into their own hay, the farm dam, etc etc). Then I rubbed the sand off his face and paid some attention to his ears, before he sauntered back over to join his friends in the meadow.

Milestone: Julian's first ride home alone. No worries.

And now the rain has stopped just in time so we can head out into the garden. You can thank the rain for this essay du jour...


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

SueC said:


> Because he was running, the rug blew up like a spinnaker and flapped around after him, which frightened him even more. The rug then turned around the neck so it was like an oversized bib, which he was running on. He shredded that rug into pieces while I looked on gobsmacked from a distance. I collected him half an hour later, when he'd calmed down enough to allow himself to be approached, to undo the little remnant fabric collar he was still wearing around his neck.


I love the way your write!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

knightrider said:


> I love the way your write!


Glad you enjoyed it, the rain this morning gave me an excuse.

I'm a bit of a magpie though... I shamelessly made off with @phantomhorse13's shiitake, @Celeste's pterodactyls, Dickens' penchant for writing sentences that go for a whole paragraph, the German tendency to use connector words and lots of brackets, the King James Bible's habit of starting sentences with _and_ even though that is frowned upon (I also do it with _but_), most of the dictionary, and much of Roget's Thesaurus, to mention some obvious examples of stolen glittering objects...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

We spend our whole childhood living by such rules as “But or and can never begin a sentence.,” and then fight the urge to scream in creative writing when the sentence would be perfect if only we started it with and or but, and we want to be creative and artistic, and this one time this sentence just required it. We follow the rule because we are the type of children who worry about finishing our creative writing work.

Then, we go home and read a book and see the rule broken right in front of us! They hold us to rules that aren’t even rules and then we simply feel we should be the type who break all the rules if we must live by rules which are not even rules in the first place!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Hey @Knave, have you ever read any ee cummings? We had to study his poetry in Year 11 and quickly learnt that to truly write, you could not stick to the rules - and had to invent some of your own! 

Having said that though - that's only for AFTER you know the rules. It doesn't work if you are completely oblivious to the gravity of what you are throwing away!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I have actually. Anyone lived in a pretty how town is one of my very favorite poems. I recite pieces of it in my head often. Sometimes I wonder how he really meant for it to be taken when he wrote it, as I’ve heard the vast majority of analogies.

Often I love analyzing a piece of writing. Luckily for me I chose a different piece for that class assignment where I first heard the poem. I listened to all of their presentations, and many in the class chose that poem, and it kind of ruined it for me for a time. The theories were so basic compared to how the poem made me feel. I didn't want any of them to be correct, and I don’t really want to know.

I’ve decided I can enjoy it the way that I do, and I don’t have to know or want to know the why behind it. I wonder how many works we give grand analogies to that were simply to be taken at face value, or the opposite. For me, that particular poem is meant to be enjoyed like a painting can be enjoyed, with no dissection.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I love that particular poem too, @Knave - and_ I Sing Of Olaf Glad And Big_, and many others...

Interpretations are often personal and subjective, especially with tea-leafy work like that. Some pieces of writing are like Rorschach tests!

With that poem, I'd say the author wanted to invoke a complex response, and that many of your classmates might have jumped onto whatever simple thing occurred to them first and then not thought any further, which is what about half of any given English/Literature class will usually do unless they've been taught to look further. I understand your frustration - I get it when I look at Internet pages where a crowd interprets lyrics! 

One of the reasons ee cummings broke language rules like he did is because this helped him express things that were beyond words, like a painting does. He used words like paint - and also like equations, and like grenades, and like rotten tomatoes, etc etc. You can enjoy him for all those aspects and more.

When a poem or piece of music connects deeply with us, we may not want to know whether we've got what the author really meant - but often authors write so that their work fits a spectrum of situations anyway, and they encourage a kind of multidimensionality in how it can be viewed, with pieces like _Anyone Lived.._.

I'd love to hear anything you can tell me about your experience of that poem - but then poetry is so personal I don't want to put you on the spot either! It's such wonderful imagery, amazing ideas etc, in that piece.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Well, I hate to analyze it too far, but I do think that anyone and noone are people, but it is important that they are anyone and noone. Noone is a negative. “Oh, she’s nobody.” Anyone doesn’t really matter.

The depth of their attachment calls to me. I find a whole level of ignorance and meanness in the rest of the community, and it makes the two call to me more, although they aren’t special enough to be noticed as individuals. It’s that which is impossible to define or analyze, like a thought that is on the edge of existence, it’s in the background and just almost irrelevant.

Seasons come and go like they do, and life is cyclical, birth and death and love and grief… the idea is to deep for me to explain. Like how I could not give justice to being surrounded by clouds of butterflies in the sunshine, the way it glinted off their wings and how it makes a person feel when they land upon you and your horse and flit in your face and all of your vision. They are like the autumn leaves in the wind, and yet it can’t be defined.

There are multiple feelings it invokes in me. My social anxiety calls to the poem, like maybe that is how I see people. It reminds me of being bullied, and of love I’ve seen, of awkward people I’ve known, death I’ve faced and tragedy I’ve seen, and of that cycle that life is.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

That is so fabulous, @Knave, and those would be top-bracket responses for a senior school literature class. This is the level our best students will think on. It's a very holistic poem and it's difficult for high school students to have enough life experience to see the full spectrum of what something can mean - the ones that do well with this are often avid readers since childhood and are big reflectors on life, sponges when it comes to ideas and viewpoints, and have spent lots of time in nature and significant amounts in solitude to have space for unfettered thinking.

While everyone's reading will be at least slightly different, because we all bring a unique set of life experiences and previous texts/films/art/etc to our reading, I actually read the poem the way you have described, too.  You can try different things on for size with that poem, but that one always won the contest in my own mind too. And you have worded it beautifully.❣


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC - I stopped into our favorite bakery this afternoon, and was surprised to find they had small banana cream tarts. It’s a favorite childhood flavor for lovely husband, and something you usually find in the southern US (where he grew up) but not so common here. I loved bringing one home for him!

We split it after dinner, and I was surprised to see the layer of chocolate as a base, as you often describe! Yum! So it was a very thin pastry crust, thin layer of chocolate, sliced bananas, decadent vanilla cream (lots of that!) and then some thin chocolate shavings on top. Split in half, it was just a few delicious bites, but I wouldn’t have wanted more than that.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

OMG, @egrogan!  You realise it's breakfast time here, and this looks perfect? 😋

Isn't it wonderful when you can do a little surprise treat like this for a person you love! 🥰


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

This is from a while back, but gorgeous singing, and very applicable lyrics, although she wrote them about someone's alcoholism. She's half Italian but the accent sounded a bit Swedish to me. It's not Swedish - can you guess?








Spoiler



Icelandic


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*CONSPICUOUS BEACH TO RAME HEAD CAMP SITE*

Another day of glorious weather for our weekly major hike - and on the first day of calendar spring, here in Australia. The people who wait for the equinox won't be declaring spring another three weeks, but the landscape is bursting with flowers, as you are about to see here, and definitely has spring written all over it! 

Today we closed the last missing link on the Bibbulmun between Peaceful Bay and the Valley of the Giants - we have now walked there and back again in day walk sections. One way is 32km, but we've done more than the 64km return trip on that particular part of the Bibbulmun track because we liked some of these day walk sections so much that we did them multiple times. The coastline is just scintillating out there.

We're getting good at getting up earlier on hiking days, and getting on the road in a reasonable time, though I want to get even quicker at it because with the sun returning to our hemisphere, we need to start avoiding peak UV walks again very soon. I aim for us to be out by 7.30am next time we do a dedicated hiking day, despite there being breakfast to be had, lunches and snacks to pack, and animals to be set up for the day. So this means we will have to beat today's departure time by an hour!

It was nearly morning tea time as we rolled through Denmark, so we stopped at the bakery for pies - beef, cheese, bacon for Brett, lamb & rosemary for me. This meant we already had protein and salt and general calories on board by the time we got to Conspicuous Beach. Last time we'd walked in from Ficifolia Road (see here), this time we drove down through the vehicle access road.

There is a beautifully constructed walkway from the car park to Conspicuous Beach.




Turning left on the beach, we could see the feature named Conspicuous Cliff, which we would climb up to en route to Rame Head campsite.

The waves were larger than life again, as they frequently are along this stretch of coast. The shape of the sea floor beyond the waterline and the wave amplification from the shape of the bay creates particularly spectacular surf on Conspicuous Beach.

Those breakers are practically boiling - just look at them! To give people an idea of how fast and ferocious the movement of these giant waves is, and how the air is filled with thunder and the ground shakes under your feet, I took a few films today.






The way that wave breaks on the beach at the end of the clip, I find particularly mesmerising.

The next clip shows the shape of the bay to this side. Keep an eye out for what happens as the waves crash over the rocky point in the distance.






This is why rock fishing is deadly dangerous in this part of the world, and why several people a year die trying on our local coastline - and that's despite all the warnings clearly dispensed all over the car park information boards, relevant websites and guide books, etc. That wave spraying 20 metres into the air isn't even a king wave - one of those would wash clean over the top of the entire rocky point, right up to the vegetation line. Once you're washed into these seas, you're usually pounded to death on the rocks. This is why it's a very good idea to respect these waves and to keep well clear.

A closer view of Conspicuous Cliff:

The Bibbulmun track leading into the dunes:

Jess was still enjoying the beach.


And then she led the way up into the dunes to begin our climb.




Pretty soon, the sand and the grasses and reeds were giving way to coastal heathland behind the primary dune. Jess said, "Come on, you slow bipeds!"

The wildflowers were everywhere then - here's a Hakea:


This is a Banksia cone, releasing seeds. You'll see Banksia flowers, which turn into Banksia cones after pollination, later on.

In the foreground of the next photo is the intermediate stage between a Banksia flower and a Banksia cone.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The colour in the landscape because of the different species coming into flower is just tremendous - as it the symphony of scents, and the busy humming of pollinating insects. A slice of ancient Gondwana that continued unmolested through to modern times beats any garden on this planet - it's hard to convey in words the gobsmacking richness of species and niches, as well as the tremendous beauty of these places, with any lens you care to look at it, from panorama to field microscope.

And up we climbed, meandering gently through the landscape.


Another Hakea:

Getting towards the top of the dune:






And up and over! We were heading straight to Rame Head campsite, opting to explore Conspicuous Cliff on the way back.


In the blurry distance, we could now see the coastline around Peaceful Bay and beyond. The next section followed a ridge and brought us back to the edge of the coast.

...and to Rame Head:

There was a lovely opportunity to do some composite shots bringing the wildflowers into prominent view alongside the gorgeous scenery.

Have a close look at those Banksia flowers in the foreground left. They are in the process of unfolding their golden filaments - and they do this on the north side first, because this is where they get the most sunlight. This is why an unfolding Banksia flower is known here as a "bushman's compass"!

It's such a sad thing that many people think nothing of bulldozing gorgeous ecosystems like this - one of the sicknesses of modern civilisation. Humans have destroyed forever over 80% of native ecosystems on the planet, and are still sending thousands of hectares to their doom on a _daily_ basis. We live in a world of scars and obliteration, and most people can't even see it, because it's normal to them and humans tend to live in the bubbles of their immediate surroundings. This is not how humans behaved for the greater part of human history, leastways on the Australian continent, where people lived for 60,000 years without creating wholesale destruction before the Europeans arrived here not quite 250 years ago and managed to destroy the vast majority of Australia's ecosystems in that geologically tiny amount of time. The pace of the ongoing destruction is frightening.

Brett was behind the camera for the next two flower studies.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I can't tell you what a privilege it is to live near and directly care for ecosystems like this - the 50 hectares of native ecosystem remaining on our own rural block could have been destroyed forever very easily, in spite of Australia's alleged clearing bans, which are so ineffectual that millions of hectares have been bulldozed in the last 30 years in this country anyway and despite of it. Also because there is nothing illegal about running 2,000 goats on a property like ours without fencing out the bushland, and the goats will destroy that bushland in a few short years. We have goat farms in the neighbourhood who even take their animals illegally into the State forest areas to graze on the native understorey, while selling their produce under a "clean and green and organic" marketing label which greenwashes the destruction caused by such practices. Feral goats now roam the countryside here, having escaped on their so-called "picnics" - and are breeding up quickly, while invading the native ecosystems around here.

We even had a flock of two dozen goats starting to visit our own reserve that we manage for biodiversity, which you can probably imagine caused us great concern. If we had firearms, we'd have shot some and put their meat in the freezer, but this only thins their numbers while the majority get away. I had a chat to our local ranger, who is aware of the problem of these roaming feral goats and has his hands tied trying to do anything about them because he needs landholder consent to intervene. He was hoping to be able to catch the whole flock on our property by setting up a portable yard with feed in it that they could get used to entering and eating in. Then if we could eventually close the gate on them while they were in, he could transport them all away. He set up field cameras and we monitored the goat movements, but they didn't like the attention and moved on to another part of the bushland all around this area, where they will breed unfettered in the absence of predators. In National Parks, feral herbivores of that size and over are often managed by shooting them wholesale from helicopters - difficult to do when you have invasive species in woodlands and forests, though. Professional hunters help with population control, some of them in the forests, where we also have feral pig problems in some parts of our Southwest.

As a contributor to _Grass Roots_ magazine I saw the tendency for many tree-changing Australians to buy bush blocks in the country to get "back to nature" - only to bulldoze some of that ecosystem for housing and paddocking, and to allow animals like sheep and goats unfettered access to the bushland on their usually vastly overstocked block. And so, the pattern of early colonisation repeats itself still, out in the remaining areas of Australian bushland on the agricultural fringes.

At Red Moon Sanctuary, we don't run sheep or goats, we don't overstock our pasture areas, and we would fence the small amount of cattle we run completely out of the bushland if they spent much time in there at all, which they don't. The donkeys and horses like to exercise on some of our maintenance tracks, but they don't go off-track (unless I ride a horse on a kangaroo trail occasionally). The cattle sometimes shelter inside the actual bushland when there are storms, but the previous owner's did the same since the 1950s, and it did not cause destruction of the bushland or the spread of invasive species - we carefully monitor the reserve for evidence of either, and would put a stop to this access if it started to become problematic.

It is a responsibility we take very seriously to steward the land we're on well, and to actively maintain the biodiversity of our 50 hectare conservation reserve, while also producing food for ourselves and people off-farm on the 12 hectares of land that was cleared in the 1950s for cattle pasture. If we attempted to revegetate that area wholesale, we'd never get it back to even a fraction of the ecological richness it had before it was cleared, but if our acquisition of the property had resulted in a reduced output of food for the marketplace, then that would have put extra pressure on remaining native ecosystems elsewhere in the world to be cleared for agriculture, because that's how market demand works.

This is why environmental scientists, biologists and other life science professionals advocate a complete, immediate and rigorously enforced ban on clearing the small amounts of native ecosystems left in the world, and the appropriate management of these areas to conserve their biodiversity, while converting existing broadacre agricultural areas into more sustainable and hands-on systems including hedgerow farming, integrated agroforestry and permaculture. This can be done, and would have all sorts of benefits for wildlife, soil conservation, domestic animal welfare, rural communities, true human happiness as opposed to the disposable-consumerist mentality etc etc - I was part of a team of scientists who researched and advised on these matters professionally when I was in my 20s, and if you have any questions about anything like this, feel free to raise them with me. Business as usual is maiming the biosphere, the planet's climatic stability, and human communities, and disenfranchising the little people everywhere. The vast majority of the world's resources are currently owned and controlled by less than 1% of the human population, in a long trend that brought us to this point and still continues to widen the rich-poor gap day after day.

When a situation like this - one species taking many times more than its share, one section of the human community taking most of the available resources - happens with the cells of an organism, we call it cancer - and you know what that does to the organism if it continues unchecked.

So as a biologist, it's part of my responsibility to keep things like this in the conversation, as David Attenborough does, and Tim Flannery of Australia - who writes beautifully by the way, and if you're interested in natural history, his book _The Future Eaters_ is my number one recommendation for anyone who would like an accessible, detailed, fascinating and thoroughly researched introduction to the natural history of Australia, New Zealand and the surrounding general region. I can list many many natural science people who do a great job with public education - another is Merlin Sheldrake, whose _Entangled Life_ is a wonderful tour through the world of fungi and plant communication - fungi link together whole ecosystems underground to create a "wood wide web", for instance, and produce really interesting chemicals that have all sorts of effects on the rest of the ecosystem and even the mental processes of inhabitants with complex brains.

So whether I'm writing for magazines or online, or hosting people at our eco-farmstay, or taking people into bushland areas as their natural history guide, or formally teaching groups of people, or talking to you guys recreationally about our hikes in near-pristine areas, I'm going to be championing the natural world and a fair and just human community, while sharing the beauty and amazement of the species that are our brothers and sisters on this earth. 🌞 ✨🌟💫



And if the coastal heathland isn't beautiful enough, just look at the coastline that edges all of this splendour, in the photos above and the close-ups that follow.






And then we arrived at the Rame Head campsite, where we had lunch in the trail hut.

I was exhausted the night before our hike, went to bed early to read, and promptly fell asleep. Meanwhile, my lovely husband was secretly making and packing one of my favourite hiking lunches: Cubes of carrots and cheddar cheese, in about a 6:1 ratio, dressed with lots of lemon juice and a hint of cayenne pepper. Our lemon tree is providing buckets of lemons year-round these days, and the juice and rind make their way into many of our dishes, while also livening up the contents of our water bottles.

You can see his salad to the right of him, the walnut spice cake to his left - and the feet that get him around beautiful places in the foreground! 

Jess had a rest in a side bay, where she also enjoyed some carrot-cheese salad I brought her.

There were other people present in the hut, some of whom you might have spotted as dots in the landscape in the photos so far. All of them were long-haul hikers, doing the 600km from Perth around the South-West and the South Coast to Albany, on the Bibbulmun track. There was a mixed group of four, and also a lovely young man called Michael who was hiking solo. We had some nice exchanges, as one generally does with other people who love immersing themselves seriously in nature. You don't meet casual people this far in on a remote, physically challenging walk track. Several people patted our dog - she is a bit of a people magnet - and after that I shared why I take her into remote areas where dogs are officially not permitted. Nobody, by the way, had a problem with her presence, and we make sure she is well-behaved with friendly people and doesn't harm wildlife.

There are several reasons dogs are banned in National Parks in Australia, even though you can take them responsibly in the UK and various other countries. One is that Australian law allows people to sue a landholder for animal attacks on their land - so if someone brought their dog in, and it attacked people, rather than the owner having to pay for the damage, the landholders can be sued, and the Department of Conservation has been famously sued for millions of dollars in cases that should never have had such an unfair outcome. For example, a guest lecturer in environmental law, when I was an undergraduate many years ago, told us the Department put up a warning sign next to a shallow river pool in super-popular John Forrest National Park near Perth:

NO DIVING - SHALLOW WATER

A particularly idiotic young man saw this sign, thumbed his nose at it, climbed on top of it, jumped head-first off it into the shallow water, and predictably broke his neck. Because bystanders pulled him out alive, he lived to sue the Department of Conservation for millions in pain, damages, lost earnings etc. His lawyer successfully argued that the Department should not have put up the sign so close to the water, thus tempting the young man to jump off it. Don't get me started on this one. Let's just say I wish they'd never pulled him out, to scalp the rest of the community via our taxes and the Department's operating budget which ought to be put to better use. If the Department hadn't put the sign close to the water, and someone else had broken their neck, they could have sued them for the sign being too far away, etc etc.

Also, the Department uses 1080 baits inside National Parks, State Forests and nature reserves to control feral animals, which prey on and compete with native species. Native animals are fairly immune to 1080, domestic animals and imported exotic species are not. Dogs will die if they eat a 1080 bait, and our old friend Bill's kelpie perished from one. You have to watch your dog like a hawk if you go into 1080 baited areas. Of course, if dogs weren't banned, some dog walkers would insist that the 1080 presents a hazard that the Department should remove, and they would get a ton of lawsuits from people about it, so you can see why they banned dogs from the parks because it's all just too hard these days when people no longer want to take responsibility for their own actions.

I don't take our dog to the popular spots in National Parks, but I do take her to the remote walks. This is why - I've had two potentially very dangerous experiences with unhinged people in National Parks, which have made me determined not to be vulnerable in remote areas ever again.

When I was a school leaver, I celebrated the end of exams and high school by setting off on a sightseeing and camping tour to the Southwest with my then-boyfriend, his older step-sister and her boyfriend. I'd never been anywhere south of Busselton or anywhere much at all in Australia since we'd immigrated - not outside of a 200km radius of where we lived, and certainly not interstate. So I was keen to see the fabled old-growth forests near the South Coast, the general scenery, and maybe some of the reputedly rugged coastline as well.

The car we were all travelling in broke down in the middle of the forest just outside Pemberton. A passer-by alerted the RAC - this is in the days before mobile phones - and the car got towed to town for repairs. The other couple had to go into Pemberton with their car, and were staying in a motel. We didn't have the money to do that, and this was supposed to be a camping trip anyway. So we decided to do an impromptu camp-out in the forest. The others dropped us off to a BBQ area by a river in the National Park just outside Pemberton - not where you'd normally pitch your tent, but it was sunset and it was only for the night. We took care to go some way back from the BBQ area, so as not to interfere with the amenity, set up the tent, ate some of our camp food, bathed in the river, and turned in for the night.

We were woken by drunken screaming around midnight, and the sounds of blows and of splintering wood and shattering bricks, and the light from the flames of fires that were being set with petrol poured from jerry cans. We peeped out of the tent through the zip and saw half a dozen hooligans with axes and machetes destroying the BBQs, benches and tables in the picnic area, and setting things alight, while whooping and shouting encouragement to each other.

It was utter mayhem. I have never been so scared in my life. I was praying that they wouldn't find us - we were well back from the amenities, and it was a dark night, but we had left an eski with camp food out on the table, and that was our undoing. They found the eski and decided to investigate if anyone was nearby. So, these people found our tent.

I was determined not to utter a sound and just let my boyfriend do the talking. I didn't want them to know anyone female was present. I can't tell you how much I shook with fear. I was 16 years old and had just graduated from high school, earlier than my peers. I came from a family that had already well versed me in being a victim of violence and had absolutely no idea in those days how I could defend myself in a situation like this.

My boyfriend took a deliberately casual line with these men, speaking to them in their own vernacular and telling them, "I'm just camping, trying to get some sleep, mate, my friend's car broke down. Have a good night, mate!" Miraculously, it worked, but it was on a knife's edge for a good five minutes, and they were belligerent and armed. I couldn't stop thinking about the possibility that they were going to pour some of their petrol on our nylon tent and set us on fire. I thought about how far I might get if I unzipped the tent and tried to bolt past them into the forest.

After that experience, I didn't camp in a tent again until my mid-30s. I also became wary of meeting people in the wild places where I had hitherto felt safe. When I was 27, a woman my age got raped and murdered in Geraldton doing exactly what I did recreationally - hiking coastlines and mountains, solo if necessary, as there were few friends who enjoyed that kind of thing. I went and bought a large can of pepper spray under the counter at a camping store - the stuff they sell for bears in America.

I had that can everywhere with me, from then on, solo or not. And a few years later, I nearly had to use it, on a solo walk of Cataract Gorge in Tasmania. Half an hour out from the car park, I noticed that a man was following me. This is a popular hiking spot, so you do bump into other hikers, but there is a difference between someone sharing a trail with you, and someone stalking you. Every time I accelerated my pace, he did too. Every time I slowed down or stopped, so did he. This went on for 20 minutes, as I was walking further and further away from the popular, well attended picnic spots in the general use and swimming area near the car park, further out into the National Park, hemmed to one side of the steep and famous Cataract Gorge and unable to cross over without a bridge.

I was prepared for confrontation and had my pepper spray concealed by my hand and sleeve, ready to go. Then a bunch of hikers fortuitously arrived at a crossroads I came to, from another direction. I stopped them and explained what was happening. They invited me to walk back with them, on the other side of the gorge, and I accepted. The whole group kept a surreptitious eye on the stalking man, who had now dropped back, instead of walking by us and getting on with his hike.

We crossed the footbridge across the gorge, and after some quiet discussion with the group, I made as if to go in the other direction to them while they kept an eye on him. There was an old defunct power station near the footbridge. The other hikers spent some time in there, before making a show of going back towards town, but quietly keeping an eye on further developments. The man went into the deserted building and waited there. I then came around from the back of the building and walked back towards the group who were waiting a little up the track. They agreed that the man was acting very suspiciously, and all of us walked back into Launceston together. There I reported the incident to the police. The physical description I had of him turned out to fit a serial rapist they were trying to apprehend, that I'd had no idea about, who'd already assaulted a long line of women in the Launceston area.

I don't know if they ever caught him, I was just travelling at the time and not a local. I do trust my instincts. Sadly, my pepper spray eventually expired, and Australia no longer permitted its importation and sale. So now I take my dog to remote places, whether or not my husband is with me - given, from my early camp-out experience and occasional other incidents around our country, that being in a couple doesn't necessarily safeguard either person. The dog is adding extra security for us, on top of my husband's martial arts training, some of which he has passed on to me. The chances of encountering unhinged people out in the sticks are lower than that of a traffic accident on the way out, but I'm not taking any chances I can avoid. I am determined to enjoy hiking remote trails, regardless of the unhinged individuals that are part of the society we're in, and to stack the odds in my favour if I do come across another one like this out there. I'm twice bitten already that way, and not interested in more.

I'm happy to pay any fines I might be asked to if a ranger catches me with a dog in the park, but I've not had any issues with that so far. Seeing as most armed no-goodniks walking around in Australia are armed with knives, machetes etc, and many human predators here just rely on their ability for physical intimidation (guns are very very rare in situations like this in Australia), Brett and I are happy that we would have a good chance of defending ourselves with the strategies we have discussed and practiced, and with the dog there too (who is also a very good deterrent). So there you go, that's why Jess gets to see so much of wild Australia with us.

Before we left the hut to start our return journey, we gave a spare wedge of walnut spice cake to Michael, whom we'd kept chatting to after the other group left, and who was stopping there for the day. Long-haul hikers carry their food, and appreciate good surprise additions to their mealtimes - which is one reason we usually carry spare home-made goodies. He enjoyed the cake so much I decided to give him mine as well, to have later. I knew I was heading for a double ice-cream later in the afternoon, and decided I didn't need the extra fuel, having currently got spare fat I wish to dip into on our hikes.

Michael is one of the young generation who are getting locked out of housing in contemporary Australia, and has ideas about building a Tiny House or something alternative, and going to protect native ecosystems somewhere, as we have done. So, we had a ton of contacts to tell him about who have built lovely earth-friendly hand-crafted unconventional dwellings, like Emmet Blackwell did - he lives near Walpole these days and was a guest at our place last year:






As always, when we meet people like that we give them our own contact details in case they do ever start something like this and could use some help, which we're always happy to give. It's amazing how many people like this we meet out on the trails, and also through our eco-farmstay. We hope to give encouragement and help to anyone like this - we're only here doing what we do because others have done that for us. You just pass on the spark as best as you can.

And now back to wild Australia, and the beautiful things there.



Coming up and over the highest section of track again on the way back, a vista spread out before us which included Conspicuous Beach and the even more remote Bellanger Beach beyond that, which is very difficult to access - and you need places like this in the world, where hardly anyone ever sets foot - not even trail walkers.


This time, we took the side track to Conspicuous Cliff just ahead and around to the left of where we were in the last photo. I descended down with the iPod, which I'd switched to for the return journey for faster photos, and then Brett started getting the proper camera out from his vantage point. Here's what each of us came up with.

Brett outdid himself with that one. We've both captured some great shots of each other out in remote places, and this one really does speak 1,000 words without even trying! 💫💫💫

Next he zoomed in a bit.

This is what I saw at the time - the far end of Conspicuous Beach, which we want to go explore another day.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Then it was back to Brett's point of view:

I really can't tell you how extraordinary it is to stand in a spot of unspoilt nature like this, and know my place in it, as part of the whole intricate fabric of life, not as presumed and self-appointed Lord and Master. To know my own relative individual insignificance in the scheme of things, but also that I am a connected part of the greater whole, and that I am stardust, recycled from before the dinosaurs, and continuing to be recycled back into life, even as I live, and also when I die.

That is the beautiful part. The hard part is what we are collectively doing to the planet. To our cradle, our mother, our brothers and sisters in the web of life. And to each other, too - mental/emotional health is plummeting as the consumer culture continues to replace nature and healthy human community. If you love, speak your love - shout your love from the rooftops. We don't do enough of it, the practice of it or the talking about it.

And here's Brett in his vantage point from which he took the photos. Brett whom I love, with Jess whom I love, surrounded by an ecosystem I love, made of millions of plants and animals and microbes I love, on a planet I love. ♥

They came down then to where I was at the base of the cliff, and we took some more photos to celebrate the beautiful cathedral we were spending the day in. Taking, as the etiquette goes, only photographs, and leaving only footprints.



The way the far end of Conspicuous Beach hooks around near the headland reminded us a bit of Wineglass Bay in Tasmania - the beach there does that spectacularly. I was reminded of the time more than twelve years ago when both of us walked out to the far end of Wineglass Bay's beach barefoot, after the lengthy uphill-downhill hike into that remote beach, and how we stood in the calm water there looking back across the bay and back up to Mt Amos, which we had climbed on a previous day. Along with those recollections came the desire to go walking down to the end of Conspicuous Beach we could now see from our eyrie, and to stand there with our feet in the sand.

Since we were not keen to descend down directly to the beach on an unofficial track, and were starting to feel the sun, we made plans to walk into that place from below on another day, and headed back down the official walk trail to the beach and car park. On the downhill descent, we once again admired the plants.







Brett had earlier, when we'd ascended through this same hillside, told me that he was re-reading the novel _Annihilation_ by Jeff VanderMeer, and that the beauty of the botanical descriptions and nature imagery in that book reminded him of what were were walking through, although in the book it's a surreal, beautiful environment that is extremely hostile to the human species. He said you could tell VanderMeer had a deep love and understanding of nature, from these descriptions, and was wrestling with what we were doing to the rest of the world.

In many ways VanderMeer is like John Wyndham, one of my favourite writers - _The Midwich Cuckoos_, _The Day of the Triffids_, _The Kraken Wakes_, _The Chrysalids_ and _Web_ are so incredibly insightful. It seems to me Wyndham simply takes at face value ugly things about most human beings that I never want to accept, and in doing so saves himself a lot of energy. Maybe James Lovelock, who died this year aged 103, was a bit like that too. His idea of Gaia certainly continues to provide an interesting perspective as we look at what happens with this world. And I long did think that if only I had read heavily psychological crime novels like _The Wire in the Blood_ in my teens, I might have been saved a lot of early naivety about our own kind.

I think Brett comes at humans with a lot of inbuilt pessimism and caution, and I come at them with an unjustified optimism which gets disappointed on a regular basis, especially when I'm not working with the younger generations. In those I saw and continue to see cause for hope, and my inclination, for better or worse, is to love them. Which actually brings me to a fun snippet from Wednesday, when I had to go into town. I was briefly following a school bus on my way to pick up Brett from work. It had turned into the main road I was travelling on, and the kids in the back were waving to traffic, as kids of that age often will. They were about 10, upper primary, and waved at me as I pulled in behind the bus, clearly not expecting a response, yet hoping for one, so I decided they would get one, and waved back heartily. Delighted, the whole lot of them waved frantically in my direction, and I began to do other things you can do when you're following a bus that's going at slow speed: Wave first with one hand, then with the other, then with both, which had them boggled. Give them a big smile, and make owl-glasses with your hands, and look through those at them. Then a telescope. They signed back in the same phrases, then invented their own, and we had a nice little back-and-forth mime show going on by the time we'd gone around the roundabout and I had to turn off. I could see the kids beaming as their bus went down the road, and I felt incredibly buoyed by this little instance of random mutual goodwill and play. 🌻 I love kids, and I don't want them to have a horrible future - or a terrible present, either.

Speaking of Brett, he volunteered to model a lovely feature of the coastal ecotype of the peppermint tree for readers of our hiking reports: They make great shelter for kangaroos and other critters who need a cubby in bad weather.


Here's another peppermint, this time without an inhabitant, but you can clearly see the handy camping hollow beneath it.

The canopy acts like an umbrella, and the space beneath is lined with a soft carpet of cast-off peppermint leaves. It almost makes you want to curl up in there and have a nap yourself.

More flowers. Here's a Dryandra.

These are just coming out, which reminds me that we ought to go climb Mt Magog in the Stirling Ranges soon, because that has a total wildflower wonderland this time of year, on the big plain you have to cross on foot to even get near the ascent track to that peak. That plain is chockers with Dryandras.

The next one is called a curry flower in common parlance, owing to its smell.

There is still more to come - this is such a rich place! 🌜


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The north-facing sundrenched hillside we descended through was covered in flowering acacias, which at this time of year are more yellow pom-poms than they are green leaves. You'll have to imagine the bright honey scent of them, suffusing the landscape.



A sundew:

There are many species of _Drosera_ (sundews) all through the coastal and valley heaths, woodlands and forests of South-Western Australia. This is a climbing sundew; others are rosettes; they come in all sorts of shapes and varieties. All of them have in common that they secrete sticky droplets of liquid which trap midges and other little critters, so they can digest them for their nitrogen compounds, minerals and trace elements, all of which are in short supply in the enormously old and leached-for-eons coastal and valley floor sands in our region. So these plants catch insects for fertiliser.

Western Australia has one of the largest assemblages of carnivorous plants in the world, because of its very ancient, poor soils. It is the harshness of the environment here that has produced a myriad different solutions for each problem and intricate, complex, beautiful ecological interrelationships over many millions of years. Those are amongst a spate of reasons for the enormous biodiversity of remaining native ecosystems of the South Coast. Another is their interaction with the Indigenous Australians, but for that one I will refer people to Tim Flannery's natural history book mentioned above. Although, if anyone is still awake and they ask me nicely, I'll explain it to you as I do to our eco-farmstay guests when we walk through the landscape with them. 




Immediately above, a Hardenbergia - these are native climbers who produce spectacular purple inflorescences this time of year. I climbed up a steep sand bank to get this photo.

The next one is of Coastal Pigface in flower. Brett said, "You can eat those!" and I made my stock-standard reply to that, "You can eat anything; but some things only once." He is right though - this is "bush tucker" for the Indigenous cultures, who nurtured this place for tens of thousands of years for the benefit of species including, but not limited to, our own. They understood their place in the fabric of nature, instead of trying to usurp and dominate and destroy and "improve" it as a standard operating principle that's so normal to Westerners they often don't even have any qualms about that.

We were now nearing the beach, and back in dune sand.

The dog went swimming in a wetland to cool off. We carry water for her too, and each time we get to a camping hut, I run water into my hands from their supply tank for her to drink. She knows the drill.

I can't tell you how many photos I deleted - we just kept the best ones. I try to keep these hiking reports reasonably small, although this time, I have missed that aim by a mile. 😋


I'm sure you can see why though, if you're still with us.



And ah, those waves!

Standing in this spot, I just had to take another film. 💞






The magnificent raw power and timelessness of these waves, coming in like this for tens of thousands of years in this place and carving the shore, the roar of the crashing, tumbling water, the vibrations under your feet as you approach the sea, the tang of salt water and iodine and seaweed, the magic of the glowing azures in the palette as the sunlight strikes the water, the watercolour serenity of the blue of the sky, the Impressionist daubs of cloud, the cries of seagulls and the silent flight overhead of birds of prey surfing the winds while staying in exactly the same spot relative to the ground, like satellites in geostationary orbit, the sheer magnificence of it all - and the gift of a small crack of light between eternities, that is the lifetime we get to experience this. I'm not sure who Bob Geldof was citing when he sang on _The Vegetarians of Love_ that mortality is a small price to pay for existence, but it's spot on I think. Let's have that song.






_This is the moment that we come alive
I'm handing out the breath and the kiss

I'm electric with the snap and the crackle of creation
I'm mixing up the mud with the spit

So rise up Brendan Behan
And like a drunken Lazarus
Let's traipse the high bronze of the evening sky
Like a crack crazed king

Voyager 2, where are you now?
Looking back at home and weeping
Cold and alone in the dark void
Winding down and bleeping
Ever dimmer ever thinner

Sail on, sail on, sail on
Feebly cheeping in the solar winds
On past the howling storms
Through electric orange skies
And blinding methane rain
I'll turn you up
This is the breath, this is the kiss
This is the breath, this is the kiss

Never bring me down to earth again
Let me blaze a trail of glory across the sky
Let me traipse across its golden high

Let me marvel in wonder and unfettered gaze
At the bigness and the implausibility of being

Sail on

Yes, stretch out your hand
Into infinity you human things
Past blind moons and ice cream worlds
You hurl your metal ball of dull intelligence
And show us all our fragile grip

As we too track with you
Slower but no less insistent
Like the only fertile seed
In the barren vault of being

Sail on, sail on, sail on
Hurtling towards the waiting wombs of empty worlds
Waiting for the final primary come of life
We turn you up
This is the breath, this is the kiss

And I'm thinking big things
I'm thinking about mortality
I'm thinking it's a cheap price
That we pay for existence
This is the moment that we come alive

Now we're in Paris, in the ball gowns
In the high heels, in the snow
And we're spinning 'round Versailles
In a Volkswagen Beetle that we'd hired for the day
(At the cheap rate)

The room without the shower was cold again
"Are we already middle-aged", she said
And I said, "I feel nothing, I feel like a jelly-fish"
"Maybe it's the Portuguese Men-O-Pause", she joked
And she laughed her brittle head
And we went back to bed, and
This is the moment that we come alive
This is the breath and this is the kiss
This is the breath, this is the kiss

So sail on, Voyager 2
This is the breath, this is the kiss
This is the breath, this is the kiss
This is the breath, this is the kiss_


Indeed. It's the artists amongst us who strive, often unknowingly, to save the souls of each of us, and without them, we would be mere shells - and some of us are.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I will finish, finally, with the sea, and with our dog who loves the sea, and getting out and about to these wonderful places as much as either of the humans in our household.







Just look at this sea.

And again...






And again...






Reluctantly, we peeled ourselves away and left, clinging on to the fringe of the shore as long as we could.


How good are these places, and the existence of them, and their hanging on in the midst of the destruction. May they survive us all, for we individuals are ephemera, but they can go on for eons. ♥

💫 🌞💫​
Now my ice-cream report will be banal, but you shall have it. Stopping by the Meadery and Ice Creamery just outside Denmark on our way home, we made small talk with the proprietor, while I chose hazelnut for the first scoop as always, trying chocolate for my second flavour this week - and eyeing up the honeycomb flavour for our next visit. Brett, meanwhile, had coffee for his first scoop, topped by a plain vanilla. He tried the coffee ice-cream for the first time last week, and was so mad about it he had to have it again.

Sitting in the sun eating proper, non-industrial, made on site from natural ingredients ice-cream from a non-industrial waffle cone completes a day's holiday like few other things, especially as a half-day's strenuous hiking gets you properly hungry and then something truly excellent like that is heightened into quasi-orgasmic territory. I was going to take a photo of the ice-cream this week, but had already licked it into a shadow of its starting size by the time I remembered. Maybe next time. 

We diverted off the main road up onto a ridge to do the alternative scenic route to Denmark via Mount Shadforth Drive. It's an elevated world up there, the road lined with old Karri trees, quaint farmhouses peeping through hedges, signs advertising yoga classes and holiday spas, and the occasional ostentatious aquarium-like dwellings of the blow-ins with more money than taste, sterile and completely out of place, and always with enormous but functionally useless gate-posts. Cattle galloped around the pastures with fairly grown-up calves, Mount Lindesay could be seen in the distance, and our dog happily watched the world through the windows.

Soon we were in Denmark again, and then home. It was a wonderful day away, which would be made less problematic for us in several ways if we could travel by TARDIS, which apart from being a time-machine that lets you arrive back before you have taken off, is powered by the Eye of Harmony. But that is another story.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Spectacular pictures, great commentary!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*WINDY SUNDAY*

Yesterday morning, I had my first ride on Julian in exceptionally windy conditions, and we both survived. I even had the iPod to take photos and it even worked for part of the way. 

Because it was windy, and Julian is still a bit leery of the shutter noise on the device (which cannot be turned off), I took some pre-riding photos just to get him used to the noise again. Here's the best ones, including some abstract art type shots. 😜































We were "gunna" go as a group with Brett on foot, and cross over into the neighbour's block today for a bit of sightseeing, but a few things conspired to make me abandon this plan.

I mounted Julian immediately we were in the Common instead of walking him around the back of the house. At the same time, Don Quixote was going crackerdonkey and running circles and up and down the dam wall in his funny rocking-horse gallop, and it was sending the other four donkeys crackerdonkey and running as well.

Jess, of course, can't help herself when that happens, and she pursues Don Quixote because she personally doesn't find that kind of behaviour appropriate - being a stock dog.

And my husband can't help himself either, so he always yells at her when she does this, although it makes not a blind bit of difference. She never listens to anything he says, as she thinks of herself as my dog; and I didn't have a problem that she was running around after Don Quixote because she wasn't harming him and he knows how to defend himself - he uses his hooves with deadly accuracy, and because he's caught her a glancing blow before, she stays out of hind feet range of the donkeys. No harm done. Those two play cat and mouse with each other all the time.

So basically, five donkeys and one dog running around and chasing each other, so the whole visual field ahead of us looks like a snowglobe that has been shaken vigorously. But that doesn't worry Julian; he's long been habituated to that intermittent behaviour by the long-ears and also the dog - he's seen in countless times in the paddock, a number of times when I was doing his lead-up walking around the countryside, and several times from the saddle, since the donkeys often come with us and sometimes seem to be on recreational drugs. Maybe they are getting into our bushland's hallucinogenic mushrooms, who knows.

But Julian gets toey when there's a lot of wind, as most horses will; and I've never ridden him in windy conditions before, and he's still quite new to all of this. And, Julian gets nervous when people yell, no matter who they're yelling at. So I had too many variables going on, and Julian began to be spooky and to go sideways and backwards. At which point I asked my husband to stop yelling at the dog because I was in trouble with the horse - he was just a couple of steps from us so it was adding to our problem of the windy day.

But husband yells, "Well, Julian knows his name isn't Jess!" and I got exasperated with him, because that was so unhelpful and he really is very clueless about large animal handling. It is a knack he does not have and doesn't seem to learn and he's always getting upset with the animals when they do things he doesn't want them to, and even more upset when his reaction then causes the animals to escalate their behaviour, or take off from his vicinity altogether. That, by the way, is an ASD thing for him - once he goes down that route emotionally, unless you can completely take him out of the situation he will continue to escalate, sometimes to the point of meltdown. We've been working on that with him, from an ASD perspective, and it's brought significant improvement. He's getting better at recognising the signs and either pulling out of the situation, or accepting that I am going to remove myself if it's potentially heading in that direction.

With cattle he doesn't understand where the pressure zones are or that you have to remain calm with cattle and you can't lose your temper at them when they go somewhere you don't want, which is the handler's issue anyway because they weren't standing in the right spot and moving the right way and using the right body language. I've tried explaining it to him and given him demonstrations but this one is like trying to explain mathematics to him. He has dyscalculia; mathematics makes no sense to him and frustrates him no end. And he has the same problem with herd dynamics and large animal handling, which he had zero exposure to in childhood - his first large animal encounter was with my Arabian mare, in his mid-30s.

I had to accept this wasn't going to change years ago, so now I "herd" my cattle with a feed bucket or with a pole saw (they all come running when I run it and call them, because that's what I do when I cut tree fodder for them). Brett is fine in general around the paddock - though he still lacks the judgement to see trouble coming and not to get hurt; one reason is that he always jumps out of the animals' way; and you know how large animals get when they encounter another animal that gives ground to them. You've got to stand your ground, make yourself big, spread out your arms, move towards the animal if it's getting in your space, stomp your feet, jump up and down and make noise if necessary, and you have to mean it. But this is hard for a lot of people who haven't grown up with large animals to do, and they have an understandable fear of half-tonne creatures who can flatten you. In contrast, if you've grown up successfully negotiating such situations, you don't have that fear, just a healthy respect for what can happen if you get it wrong - and a confidence around the animals which they respect.

When we bought this place together, it was on the mutual understanding that the stock are my job and I wasn't expecting Brett to become an expert large animal handler. He works in town, I don't - we each use our skills where they work best for mutual benefit. We teamwork well - and we each do what we're good at. Some things we're both good at, some things one of us is much better at - like I'm really happy to leave all the IT-related stuff up to him, as he's happy to leave the stock and the accounting up to me (although we do chip in even there with lower-level tasks when it's helpful). The things we're both good at we work on together, the things we're not we tend to leave to the other, by mutual agreement. There is no snobbery about it - and Brett is completely egalitarian about household chores, unlike, statistically, the majority of Australian men - as survey after survey shows. He doesn't have to be asked to participate in keeping the house clean - he's not got that "I should be asked to help" mentality with it either because he understands that a clean house is a mutual responsibility, and doesn't gender the task. Just as I don't gender our DIY house-building / maintenance tasks, expecting him to do more than me in that sphere because he's a guy.

So - that's the larger context. We all have flaws as well, and dealing with those is an ongoing business in life, on which we hopefully make progress, and which we learn to manage. So when Brett was not getting the point yesterday in the heat of the moment about stopping yelling around my toey horse, I excused myself and informed him I was going to ride on my own. It's better to bail out sometimes, and try again later, and it turns out that was the right thing both for my horse and for our marriage. Brett wasn't happy about that in the moment, but he stopped escalating and by the time I was back from my ride had found himself something constructive to do and we had a hug, and a civilised rest of the day.

So back to the ride. It was windy, the horse was toey, and I rode him around the back of the house to the sand track to take him out of the wind. He was still very heightened and jumpy - for a while, every rustle in the bushes made him give a little blip. But I just directed him into a relaxed stretched-out walk, talked to him lots, instant cooeing whenever he was tending towards more settled and doing something well, so we did fine under the circumstances. We decided to go up the ridge to the eastern boundary - and he was settled enough that I could get two photos at this point - with no spooking at the shutter sound. Of course, I also helped that by making shutter sounds of my own before taking the photos so he was forewarned. 








So there's our first solo-ride between-the-ears shot. 😀

Plus a blurry one of the scenery.








...and then the operating system hung, and I couldn't get it to re-boot until at home later, so no more photos from this ride!

The route we took was along the forest edge, then down the south boundary, across the Very Boggy Patch and back home on the Swamp Track. We had a little trot on the sandy section going up the ridge to the eastern boundary, walking over the gravel section on the ridge, a bit more trotting coming down into the sandy parts of the trail, alternating with walking and deliberate sight-seeing, for the horse and me. We didn't do any stop-start practice or tight turns today; with the wind being how it was, I rode the horse in a way that would settle him and keep him settled - relaxed walking, stretches of trotting, a little slower than we've done so far just to moderate everything. Lots of talking to him, shoulder-rubs, encouragement for him to look at various things and to enjoy the ride. He responded well, but you can definitely tell the difference riding in high winds versus calm conditions. 

My job in situations like this is to calm down the horse and to calm myself too because if I don't, then the horse's anxiety goes up, and then mine would go up, and it would just escalate - and this is the kind of vicious cycle beginner riders get into with their horses when they enter spooky territory, and that's what happened to me as a child, in my first two years of riding. Successfully calming the horse down with the strategies I employ - choice of pace, choice of trails, talking to the horse, lots of warmth when he's settling and/or doing something well, dismounting and playing lead mare when it would help (not necessary on this ride), a bit of distracting - "Oooh, look over there!" or "Want to race the dog?" or "Let's slalom around these bushes, won't that be fun!" etc.

So that went well. A couple of things I want to do better: The horse bumped himself on the bit a couple of times when he did little spooky leaps. I backed off the reins immediately again, each time, but it's best to prevent that - a couple of times I didn't and I think it was just tension. The worst bump he got was when he leapt over Scary Brook and I wasn't ready because I didn't think he would, when he did - I thought he was going to stop. Should have thrown my heart over. We were only walking, which made it trickier - this is so much easier to do at a trot or canter, but the pasture was too soggy for that. So, some things to work on. Which reminds me of the German saying on a riding school arena wall:

YOU LEARN RIDING BY RIDING

There's much truth in that, but I don't 100% agree either - but that's another story...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Two particularly excellent articles I've been recommending to friends - one about mental health:









I’m a psychologist – and I believe we’ve been told devastating lies about mental health | Sanah Ahsan


Society’s understanding of mental health issues locates the problem inside the person - and ignores the politics of their distress, says psychologist Sanah Ahsan




www.theguardian.com





The other is a warning and a memorial a mother wrote for her 13-year-old daughter. She would like other parents to read it because she doesn't want this to happen to them. Her daughter's death was preventable.









‘We had such trust, we feel such fools’: how shocking hospital mistakes led to our daughter’s death


Martha was 13; her whole life stretched out ahead of her. But our faith in doctors turned out to be fatal. This is what I wish I’d known




www.theguardian.com





There's many caring, excellent doctors, but sadly also some pretty arrogant ones who have a tendency to float to the top and to have undue influence on decision-making because of the hierarchical nature of health systems.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I didn’t read the articles yet.

Uuf, I felt bad for you in that moment! I feel for Brett too, because he doesn’t understand, but that is hard for me to understand and empathize with since I do.

Husband and I can have those moments too, because he can become very focused on one thing, and in that focus nothing else matters. So, I might say stop yelling, if he was spooking my horse, but he would continue to yell, and expect me to get over it.

It does make me responsible for myself quicker, so in that I guess it isn’t the worst thing. I know he will not stop for me if my horse panicked and he had a cow leaving, for example. I understand that, because I probably wouldn’t stop either in that scenario, but I am fully aware that is how it is, and I ride knowing that I am responsible for myself. Of course, I do get pretty hot when he gets single sighted without reason and puts me in a bad situation. I am still a woman of course. Lol

I used to think he was intentional, and I held it against him, but really he just doesn’t think that way. He doesn’t take others into consideration and he doesn’t expect anyone to take him into theirs (when it comes to horses or work). I don’t mean that in a rude way, I just mean he literally does not think about that. Sometimes when I yell at him, I can actually see that he didn’t even see. It’s hard to explain.

With Queen he has been more considerate than I have ever seen. I don’t know if it just clicked, but I do know he really wants her and I to be successful, and I can see he has tried everything to help us move in that direction. I think as she’s gotten more broke, he tends towards forgetting us at times, but he’s still maintained an awareness and helpfulness.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Wow . . . those articles! Just . . . WOW


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

She makes her Martha come alive for those of us who never knew her, @knightrider, and I'm so sorry she's not in this world anymore - huge loss. I take solace in the fact that Martha was well loved and happy while she was alive, but it's hard.

How are the family who lost their little boy, @Knave? And how are your girls doing? Thank you for your words in your last post - much appreciated. ♥ Roses come with thorns too. I am happy that we got past that so quickly this time. Because my back is out and I was having to rest two days, Brett was bringing home treats for me to eat. Today after my stretches I could finally stand straight, and went outdoors, happy to be back in my normal body and to walk like I usually do. And then I tripped over a rope! Instantly my back was out again. So I went back to my yoga mat and did more stretches, which made it better but not like before I had tripped. But I said, to hell with it, and planted out a bed in the garden that was supposed to be done on Monday: Kale, parsley, celery, kohlrabi and a few odds and ends all transplanted in, plus two lines of lettuce sown directly. And I fenced it because I saw a rabbit in the garden in the middle of the day. This is when I wish I had a shotgun...instead we have to track down another burrow, sigh.

No riding until I'm straightened out for at least 24 hours, but Julian knows something is wrong with me and is showing concern, for instance, in the peculiar looks he gives me, by coming up to the garden gate incessantly when he sees me, and generally showing more interest in my whereabouts and state than usual. I gave him a good ear-rub today.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I still haven’t gotten to the articles, hopefully I don’t forget. It’s been a busy couple days of baling and then servicing equipment and picking up scatters today. Theoretically I could look at my phone while baling, but I obsess over every bale, and tend to get catiwompus (I’ve no idea how to spell that word) when I look at my phone.

I’m sorry about your back! Mine was knocked out bad recently. Leftovers from my wreck with Partner all those years ago. I couldn’t even barely get my socks on or sit on the toilet! I finally decided to do my weight lifting program anyways, and that thing clunked back into place.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Speaking of bad backs, you know I have that floating vertebrae from being picked up by a horse as a child. Today I was driving a set of tedders back down the asphalt road. I don’t weigh enough for the seat to be anything near quiet, so I was bouncing all around.

That is a feeling that I enjoy actually, but today I suddenly was getting faint, and then I was skirting the edges of a panic attack. I tried to go with the feeling, but I realized, or I believe, the bouncing jars that floating vertebrae in my neck, and that’s where the “I’m going to pass out,” comes from maybe. I dropped a gear which limited the bouncing, but of course I played on the edge of panic for a long while.

I was so frustrated! I don’t want to restart the panic attacks driving, let alone going slow in a tractor. Ugh…


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Oh, (I’m clogging up your journal), to the first question I do not know the answer. They seemed to be doing the best as could be expected last I saw.

The girls are doing well! Big girl has her big girl job now! She is a dispatcher for the police department. Well, she is training currently. They have been very clear in what to expect, and they do plan on her seeing a counselor and minding the effect of such a stressful job on a young mind. She has however always loved law enforcement, and there seems to be a shortage of people willing to work in that area any more. They are working with the school, so they get her part of the day, and she finishes her senior year the other part. She’s very happy.

Little girl is doing well in her schooling, and her and Zeus have begun working on an outside ranch when she has days off. I am sure they are both learning a lot, and after last weekend they both looked exhausted. Lol. She did seem to enjoy herself and they both came home sans injury, so I am loosening my anxiety.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Knave said:


> I still haven’t gotten to the articles, hopefully I don’t forget. It’s been a busy couple days of baling and then servicing equipment and picking up scatters today. Theoretically I could look at my phone while baling, but I obsess over every bale, and tend to get catiwompus (I’ve no idea how to spell that word) when I look at my phone.


Absolutely no pressure, this is not a course reading list!  Just some suggestions that I think people will find worthwhile, but I think nobody can get around to everything they want to read and do because we don't have time machines...

And yeah, attention splitting is a big source of mental stress and best avoided! The only reason I've been able to read and write so much this week is because my back is out...



Knave said:


> I’m sorry about your back! Mine was knocked out bad recently. Leftovers from my wreck with Partner all those years ago. I couldn’t even barely get my socks on or sit on the toilet! I finally decided to do my weight lifting program anyways, and that thing clunked back into place.


Isn't it funny how it can do that? This is why I don't just rest my back when that happens, I go and periodically stretch out the muscle groups that are in spasm to "unlock" them temporarily - the child pose really stretches all the back muscles and is comfortable to almost go to sleep in (until your legs complain about having insufficient circulation), and from that I will go into the counterbend position, which is going up on your arms like a pushup except your hips stay on the ground, and you let your spine curve upwards and bend it as much as possible. From there you can take your hips off the ground and then go into an even deeper counterbend that also stretches your hip flexors. And then child position, and back to counterbend, rinse and repeat. That is how I start, when my back has gone out and is in spasm.

That significantly loosens both the muscles and the spine up again, so from there I can start gently doing rotating movements of the shoulders and hips to move the vertebrae on their axes. Then side bends, to both sides, and moving limbs in various positions, and sitting in lotus to stretch out leg and hip muscles, and doing quadriceps and flat back stretches standing up etc etc - all guided by feedback from pain levels - I go gradually further and further, but try to avoid the "OMG someone just stabbed me in the back with a soldering iron" from impinged nerves getting more pressure on them. So this gradually and systematically stretches all the muscles while freeing up spinal movements again, and eventually hopefully there is a clunk, or at least a series of mini-clunks, that shifts things back to where they should be.

I think the reason it takes time to go back to normal is because of irritation to the nerves continuing to cause spasm, and it takes a while for those nerves to calm down again. I think the worst thing people do with injuries like this is to just rest them, and not move, because then the back can become "frozen" and seized up, and maybe even stuck like that - you see some people moving around like that for years. And even worse, to take painkillers - Brett says a lot of people with this problem come to the surgery wanting opiates. I don't take painkillers because the pain motivates me to _do_ something about the problem - those muscles need stretching and the joints need to move every which way to free up again. And preventatively, you have to work on your core - for me, lots of hiking and Pilates is the prescription so that the muscles support the spine and stop it from going out of alignment / impinging nerves etc.

I wish you and me all the very best managing our back injuries well right into our old age - and if anyone else reading is dealing with something like this, share your tips about it with us! 




Knave said:


> Speaking of bad backs, you know I have that floating vertebrae from being picked up by a horse as a child. Today I was driving a set of tedders back down the asphalt road. I don’t weigh enough for the seat to be anything near quiet, so I was bouncing all around.
> 
> That is a feeling that I enjoy actually, but today I suddenly was getting faint, and then I was skirting the edges of a panic attack. I tried to go with the feeling, but I realized, or I believe, the bouncing jars that floating vertebrae in my neck, and that’s where the “I’m going to pass out,” comes from maybe. I dropped a gear which limited the bouncing, but of course I played on the edge of panic for a long while.
> 
> I was so frustrated! I don’t want to restart the panic attacks driving, let alone going slow in a tractor. Ugh…


Anyone who's not a rider reading this would probably wonder how we can be so crazy to get on a horse. All those injuries came from horses...

On the other hand, back injuries are pretty common and happen more often as a result of incorrect lifting etc, and horse riding I think overall is actually an exercise that helps with core strength and back muscle/flexibility and is preventative of back problems, and also inactivity-related health issues.

That neck issue doesn't sound like fun.  Times when I have something cracking in my neck and injure something there, I always get nausea and faintness too. I hope you can prevent it adding to the driving panic attacks. About those - I have a friend who swears by EMDR and another who has just started on that too. Never tried it myself but apparently a good option for treating trauma / PTSD type things, such as "unhooking" panic attacks in response to various triggers.

Meanwhile can you put a thick foam pad on your tractor seat?




Knave said:


> Oh, (I’m clogging up your journal), to the first question I do not know the answer. They seemed to be doing the best as could be expected last I saw.


Please never worry about clogging up my journal - you can write essays or do Power Point presentations here if you wish, and take up as much room as you like. ❣

I know sometimes years ago I've PMd @egrogan panicking about breaching journal etiquette by making long posts on her journal, but she also said not to worry. By the way, @egrogan, if it ever does become too much of a novel or too many photos over at your journal, feel free to hand me a word limit and photo limit and I promise to stick to it! 

For me, I'm like a few others here who live remote and for whom being in friendly online groups or having penpals is a significant part of our social lives. The advantage is you can find people with similar interests and values much more easily than IRL - but they are scattered all over the globe, which is great but which also means face-to-face for most of us won't happen or be very limited, like "one day maybe when I come into an inheritance and can find a farm-sitter and travel abroad on holidays..." 



Knave said:


> The girls are doing well! Big girl has her big girl job now! She is a dispatcher for the police department. Well, she is training currently. They have been very clear in what to expect, and they do plan on her seeing a counselor and minding the effect of such a stressful job on a young mind. She has however always loved law enforcement, and there seems to be a shortage of people willing to work in that area any more. They are working with the school, so they get her part of the day, and she finishes her senior year the other part. She’s very happy.
> 
> Little girl is doing well in her schooling, and her and Zeus have begun working on an outside ranch when she has days off. I am sure they are both learning a lot, and after last weekend they both looked exhausted. Lol. She did seem to enjoy herself and they both came home sans injury, so I am loosening my anxiety.


That is such good news about your daughters! I'm so glad your big girl is happy. She had a terrible head injury and I was so worried about her. It must be a lovely feeling to see your erstwhile babies "fledging" - so to speak! 💕

A good friend of mine who had two children explained to me when they were in their 20s that when you have children, and you love them, it's as if part of your heart goes into the outside world with them and you never have quite the same peace of mind again because now something dreadful could potentially happen to those pieces of your heart! But at the same time, she says it's worth it. Just something she never understood before she had her own children.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

@Acadianartist taught me about videos on-line for Yoga with Adriene. She has about 4 or 6 back yoga sessions that I use when I've tweaked my back, which I did yesterday either by lifting and dragging heavy branches to the utility trailer or by a long session in an uncomfortable dentist chair. Either one will do it to me. Or maybe an uncomfortable bra? Nah, they are all uncomfortable for me. 

yoga with adriene back pain - Google Search 

Yoga For Lower Back Pain | Yoga With Adriene - YouTube 

Lower Back Love | Yoga For Back Pain | Yoga With Adriene - YouTube 

And there are more, but I use many of them when needed. Helps a lot.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Thank you very much for those resources, @knightrider! 

Hope you're better already. ❤ I think it's great when people are physically active and also proactive about injuries plus serious about managing flare-ups. It makes for better quality of life and mobility in the second half of our lives, where that can be the difference between being out there doing things or being housebound.

If I compare myself to how I was at 25, it comes off a little less favourable these days (though my bone density is still better than the average 18-25 year-old's at twice their age! ). But if I compare myself to the average 50-year-old, or even 40-year-old, I come out _tons_ better, across fitness, flexibility, everyday activities, mental outlook etc. 😎

Some of you already know this, but my husband is practicing for being 70, when he says he will start carrying a stick, hitting people with it and saying, "You young people today!" in a quavery voice.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I finally got to reading them. That second article just was heartbreaking. I have met my share of bad doctors, and I have issue with them, so it’s not the best article for me to read. I have had three very good doctors through my time, and one who tried hard but lacked the right answers. Do you know what I think about him? I think he was super nice, but embarrassed he lost my mri, and then just pretended there was nothing on it and went down a lot of crazy roads. Lol

Well, it’s funny and it’s not. I gave up on doctors long ago, and take a lot or personal responsibility for my own health. I do have a good one now, but she’s actually a physician’s assistant, and she only can do so many things. She’ll go as far as she can though. She knows my distrust, and so she does everything she can. She also begins our visits with “now what animal meds have you already taken for this?” Lol


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Yeah, the second article was heartbreaking - but also a bit of an elegy for Martha. I think it highlights some of those problems with hierarchical structures of decision-making in situations where people can't advocate effectively for themselves, and I appreciate that Martha's mother, by writing this article, is helping readers to have more insight into how these situations work and increasing their ability to advocate more strongly for themselves or family members in situations like this. He gut instinct was right, her science was right too, and what she feared would happen did. And she says she would be far more forceful if she could turn the clock back.

Of course, there would have been pushback had she worked harder at getting Martha into the free ICU bed, and you have to be prepared for that. Again - many of us prefer to avoid conflict, and that perpetuates these situations.

If I was writing this ten years ago I would have said what you said, @Knave - I had generally neutral or negative experiences with doctors. In part it's because I didn't need to see anyone often enough and that I moved around a lot, so there wasn't any continuity. The negative was that many doctors were just arrogant - and I have to say, every single one of the super-arrogant doctors I ever met was male. Female doctors themselves that I've talked to about that also think that the arrogance is skewed towards the males in that profession - kind of like in @egrogan's rec softball team, what she described there for those lawyers.

Good experiences: The first specialist who was just lovely to go see was a female dermatologist, whom the male GPs I got via potluck finally referred me to when they'd stopped mucking about in ignorance, when I was in my 20s. She said, "Oh, they said that? They have no idea, but this happens all the time. And this is why they were wrong." And unlike them, she was personable, not arrogant, and talked to me as another human being, not from up on high down to there. We had a really good relationship and I enjoyed getting health care from her, she was excellent at what she did.

The first GP I really clicked with was a locum from Sri Lanka who was super-thorough and seemed to know a lot of fine print from her library - and she was the first doctor I didn't have the impression would have preferred me to dumb down my vocabulary. I have seriously had male doctors, when I used a correct anatomical term, say to me, "Oh, have you been googling?" and I've replied, "No, I have a double science degree and I've taught anatomy to nursing students." I mean, why are they even remarking on it? This locum didn't. She was happy to meet me there. So there was none of that barrier that happens when one person thinks they are the only person who's supposed to think, and instead you're both working together. I learnt a lot of really great things from her about preventing and looking after various conditions, so that was the first productive relationship I had with a GP. (And _all_ the relationships I have now with a group of GPs I go and see are on the same level - they're fabulous - but it took me years, and personal recommendations, to get to this wonderful point with my medical care.)

After the locum left, it was back to same-old stuff. I'll give you an example. I had a painful, angry rash around my neck and wanted it checked out - I thought maybe I'd contacted a poisonous plant bushwalking, but there was also a virus going around which could have implications for vision if untreated, so I wanted to be sure it wasn't that. That day I happened to wear a metal necklace - for the first time in a month, and I'd only had the rash a week. Literally as I walked into the doctor's office, he exclaimed, "Oh, I see you have a metal allergy!" - and then had the kind of body language doctors like that have when they expect applause for their brilliant instant diagnosis.

When I told him this was the first time I had worn any metal necklace in over a month, and the rash had just come up in the last week, he said, "Well, it will be a delayed reaction." Honestly! Some people just can't let go of their pet theories. I said, "Well, it could be a contact dermatitis due to various causes, not including the metal necklace, but I really came to see you to make sure it wasn't this virus that's going around (etc)."

And he just insisted it was a metal allergy, and wouldn't talk about anything else. I was seriously annoyed - why wasn't he using his training to consider and investigate different possibilities? And at least to eliminate that it was that outside-chance virus that would have needed treatment? When I left that office, I swore never to go back to him and felt that the money I paid him had been thrown away. (Now that I know a few people with inside knowledge of the medical profession around here, I've mentioned this and they said, "Oh, was that so-and-so? Yeah, he's a bit up himself, and lazy.")

I did work out what caused that rash, by the way. I'd been unconsciously carrying a lead rope around my neck, that had had contact with hay, and I am allergic to grass pollens. Next time I did that, I felt it burn - and it was exactly in the same spots as where the rash had been.

When I got my voice injury I got so utterly dismayed with the doctors I'd seen for six months en route to getting a proper diagnosis that I basically cut ties with all and any GPs for half a decade. I'd thoroughly had enough - all along I'd been patronised and told by one after the other, "Oh, gargle this saline, you have laryngitis!" when I _knew_ it wasn't laryngitis, it was like nothing else I'd ever had before, and I wanted someone to endoscope me. But nobody did, so eventually I arranged a consultation with a private ENT with an endoscope, 400km from where I lived, and guess what - it was a paralysed vocal cord, and that could have been established half a year earlier if people had done their jobs and not fobbed me off (but as I couldn't speak, just make strangled whispers, it was really hard to advocate for myself at the time). The local GP was then supposed to refer me to voice therapy but didn't, and that was the final nail in the coffin for me. I washed my hands of the lot of them and started singing in the shower (well, attempting to) as DIY therapy.

I didn't go back to any kind of doctor for years, until Brett began working in a medical practice and getting to know some of their staff, so he said, "Hey, I think you'd really like Doret, she's lovely and clever and has a great manner, people love her, want to book in with her?" and I did, more than three years overdue for a pap smear at this point, and she was indeed all those things, so I started going back to her when I could use intelligent, friendly advice! As a direct result of this, when I came down with PTSD symptoms a couple of years later, I had a great GP to go to and it made all the difference with managing that condition - which is probably one of the most personal conditions you can go to a GP with.

When this doctor moved up to Perth, Brett put me onto two other women GPs who also fit into that category, and I love these women and the way they handle my health care. And I know that if I had been in their care when I got a paralysed vocal cord, they'd not have bugg'ered about for months but gotten me endoscoped - we've talked about what happened there, and they were rolling their eyes. They think if people don't listen to their patients, they're not worth going back to!

There are a few males in the same practice who are excellent with technical problems, surgery etc, but don't quite have my GPs' manner. I see them occasionally for technical things. I had some wonderful mental health specialists who were male a few times though the years - but also several of either gender I'd never go back to! Plus a male surgeon who did a really good job and didn't condescend to me.

So I think it's really important, by word of mouth, to find a decent doctor/set of doctors you can go to for general care, so that if something dramatic happens to you, someone will have your back and know just where to send you to if they can't help you themselves. It's a good feeling to be in that position and I know that not everyone has it, and I didn't always either.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I'll be the exception and say we've run into some super arrogant female doctors, unfortunately. I don't have much respect for doctors. I've had a lot of success with horsey injuries by googling the internet for physical therapy suggestions and doing them . . . after going to the doctor and being told I'd need surgery. Nope. Just conscientious physical therapy.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

SueC said:


> know sometimes years ago I've PMd @egrogan panicking about breaching journal etiquette by making long posts on her journal, but she also said not to worry. By the way, @egrogan, if it ever does become too much of a novel or too many photos over at your journal, feel free to hand me a word limit and photo limit and I promise to stick to it!


Nope, no bother to me! First of all, there's no such thing as too many pictures. Next, I don't know many people who have _too much _thoughtful, stimulating discussion in their lives. 😉 Often I'm a little slow to respond to more thought-provoking discussion because while I read threads on my phone, I can't stand finger pecking on a tiny phone keyboard the amount I often want to say, so I have to wait until I'm back in front of my computer...

Thinking about doctors, I'm fortunate that _knock on wood_ to this point in my life, I'm a pretty simple patient. I generally go in once annually for a physical and to re-up my birth control prescription, and that's about it. My lovely husband however has had a lot more issues that require specialists, many that are linked back to whatever toxins he ran through while escaping the Twin Towers on 9/11. He's gotten the run around for years (the World Trade Center health fund has been an absolute joke), and despite living within driving distance of multiple "world class" hospitals, our dysfunctional US health system means that he's constantly churning through new residents and attending doctors, spending hours on the phone with insurance companies demanding coverage for the care he needs, and fighting off attempts to just drown him in medications rather than more deeply understand the root of the problems he sometimes has. In the last year, he's lost his favorite blood doctor to retirement, but finally gotten connected up with specialists at Tufts Medical Center in Boston who go light on the medication, took the time to understand how complex his case is, and actually treat him like a person, not just another insurance claim. It's been exhausting.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Right before big girl turned two, little girl had pneumonia and I was giving her the nebulizer. The nebulizer treatment took 20 minutes. Big girl was running around during this time.

In the nursery, in a box, in another box for which it came and was brand new, was a bottle of Benadryl. Little girl, even as a baby, had bad allergies.

When I finished the treatment and went walking to put away the nebulizer, I met big girl in the hall. She was holding an empty Benadryl bottle, babbling in that way small toddlers do, with the biggest look of pride I had ever seen on her face.

“No, no, no…” I began babbling as I ran into the nursery. I was silently praying she had found another bottle. The only bottle I knew about was brand new. There the box and plastic waited for me. She climbed the rocking chair and onto the dresser, and managed somehow to open this new bottle. Box, plastic, cover, all of it, and what was left was an empty bottle and a very proud toddler.

She was the type that would eat everything she found, and there was no mess. I knew exactly what happened and called poison control. I took her to the clinic. Poison control spoke to the only doctor, and he had her on speaker in the other room. “4 times the dose is fatal. This child has had 16.”

I knew then. I knew she was dead. He told me he didn’t believe me and I argued back. He gave her charcoal and she threw up, but he still just kept saying it didn’t happen. “Do you think my house is dirty?,” I yelled at him. “She drank the whole thing!”

I threw enough of a fit that we were put into an ambulance and taken away. Everyone didn’t believe me, because he kept telling them I was wrong. It was a he said she said moment, and he was mad because he had to ride in the ambulance for a pediatric case.

About half way into the drive it hit her. Her heart rate jumped to 225 and she started seizing, and we went flying down the highway. I think I just glared at the incompetent doc. He said “well, she never got tired.” I retorted “I told you I don’t get tired!”

We made it there and the hospital shut down their ER for her. They were brilliant, but there was only so much they could do. They gave her enough valume (I don’t know how to spell any of these words) that they said she would od on that as well if she were to have any more.

She didn’t know who I was. The nurses and doc just looked at us from outside the room as she had seizure after seizure, and in between she would look at me or my husband like we were monsters and just scream.

We flew her to the best hospital around. There they brought cops in guarding the antidote to Benadryl. They saved her life in what I thought was an impossible scenario. The smaller hospital saved her too, and there was a nurse there I will never forget. He was wonderful.

The original doc? I wonder if he felt guilt over his lazy incompetence. I hope he did. I hope he learned something from it, but I doubt it. I glared every time I saw him again, and he didn’t look at me. He ended up leaving not too long after.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

On a side note- that is why they believe the concussions damaged big girl so badly. She already had a very bad brain injury as a toddler, and they always build onto each other. So they say.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

@Knave, what a story! I am so so so happy that it had a happy ending, unlike that horribly tragic story that @SueC put up. Whew! I am so glad you were so demanding and pushy. I hope you stay that way!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I am happy there was a happy ending too @knightrider. I tend towards being the opposite of pushy, but he was saying I was wrong, and I heard what poison control said. If there was a shot to save her, we were going to take it. It was sooooo frustrating and sad. Here I was bawling and calling my husband to come and my aunt to take the baby. I was telling them all what he was doing to me, and no one believed me. They just kept looking at me like I was crazy.

I don’t know why no one would listen. Husband, aunt, ems… I guess I looked crazy. I sure felt crazy. It was like bawling and grabbing onto people, trying to make them hear me. Whatever I guess, they must have decided, take the crazy person. Here was this doctor, completely composed, explaining why I was wrong. “She didn’t look in the house. It was spilled. The child is not tired. She would be tired.”

I am glad I threw a fit for sure. I was young, and easily pushed around, but I couldn’t be in that moment. Unlike the girl from the story, I knew with every ounce of my being. I didn’t care that big girl was chattering away in her language only toddlers know, looking like her mother was crazy. I knew.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

I am not sold on what the doctor says either. They are people and people make mistakes or have agendas that differ from ours.

My wife and I were married in 2001 and our daughter was born in '03. The delivery doctor cut her and it was a bloody mess. Someone wasn't clean. They came home from the hospital a day later and the next day my wife went into septic shock. I called the doctor ,told him she was shaking uncontrollably and he said she will be fine, I will prescribe antibiotic,pick it up at the local pharmacy. It was a sunday afternoon and now I suspect he was too 'busy' to be bothered. Even though my gut told me it was worse, I followed his direction. He's the expert,right? Sure enough, it got worse and my SIL took her back to the hospital.

After a couple of days of looking after a newborn baby every hour of the day, I needed to know what was going on so I called the hospital.
They said she had a bad fever and the specialist looking after her would call. A few hours later,he did and he said because the antibiotics were in her system, they could not tell what bacteria they were fighting. She was on her own but they were doing everything they could to keep the fever down. He told me she would either live or die and they would know in the next day or two.

I hung up the phone and sat on the chair with a days-old baby on my lap trying to steel myself for what might come. I had to keep my emotions in check because I had a baby I fed every couple of hours and I had no extra energy for that. What a nightmare! Preparing for the possible death of my wife and life 24/7 looking after a baby on my own with no relief.

Anyway, the next day or so and she turned around,the fever went down and she got better. I had about ten days on my own looking after baby which taught me how much work it is being a new mother. 

So, I would naturally want a second or third opinion about anything serious that came along,medically speaking.


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## Txshecat0423 (May 27, 2020)

My son’s team of doctors is a classic case of left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. He has such a multitude of issues and each of the docs are so consumed with “oh, it must be (insert their specialty disease of the week/month/year)” that they can’t be bothered to actually coordinate his care with the myriad of other specialists.


Of course they (the medical Powers That Be) also told us he would never make a year and he turned 37 in May, so……

Good job on trusting your gut @Knave.
My son’s medical issues and illnesses taught me how to speak up and not let anyone run over us…it’s how I earned the witch hat I proudly wear today! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Wow, the story in that article is terrible. Also your crisis, @Knave. Terrifying! 
I believe we are all our best advocates for ourselves and our families. We need to speak up and research and make sure what the doctors are telling us is what we should do. 

Since I work with doctors every day I say they are wrong quite often, and it is important to remember this is one person coming from one perspective. There are a few who end up like the horse trainers who believe in their tried and true methods, even though each case is individual and no body responds exactly the same to everything. 

A problem is that in order to prevent errors, the big systems try to make protocols for everything to keep things safer. But that takes away the individual assessment and decision making based on a case by case basis. 

For example, if the computer gets an input of several numbers (high lactate, low blood pressure, low oxygen), it will cue the doctor to order a few liters of IV fluid. Those are sepsis markers. However, the lactate can also be elevated from tissue hypoxia, and those numbers can go along with someone having low cardiac output from severe heart failure and fluid overload. On a few occasions I've admitted people who came in with severe fluid overload and were given liters of fluid by the emergency room doctor, and now they are in a real crisis. 

People who avoid doctors, surgeries and health care throughout life whenever possible are without a doubt the healthiest patients we see. Well, excepting for the few who are in complete denial and never see a doctor even if their entire right side stops working, LOL. I'm not sure about those who take animal meds, haven't had those yet (ha ha, @Knave) 

In the case of the child with septic shock, I have to wonder where the nurses were. Something that is very important that the U.S. has done is attempt to remove the heirarchy in the medical system, and most hospitals have trained all the staff about speaking up and doctors are required to listen to any and all objections that are raised regarding their treatment plan. This means that treatment comes from a consensus rather than one brain. I've read that in some countries the nurses are still seen more as care attendants rather than medical professionals, and they don't have autonomy. 

This is very important, because when nurses are seen as vital members of the professional team, they give feedback 24 hrs a day. The doctors see each patient for maybe an hour a day. Almost every day I work, I bring up safety concerns to the doctor, things that could be life threatening for the patient. For example, I'll notice the heart rhythm is changing on the monitor, and some interval is getting longer. I'll let the doctor that the patient has been having a fever and sweating, or diarrhea, and that maybe the electrolytes are getting unbalanced. Then we'll run labs, discover the magnesium is critically low, and give replacement before the patient goes into a potentially fatal arrhythmia. 

That being said, there are terrible nurses too, and this system that depends on the bedside caregivers being intelligent and paying attention all the time means that a failure in nursing can also be fatal to patients. 
Doctors are very well educated. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be questioned, it means that they should be able to give you very clear and logical reasons about why you should do what they recommend. Your questions might lead their logic to go down other pathways, and their education might give them other ideas and options that would be better for the patient. In my case, I keep questioning until I can logically agree with the plan. As a friend said, "Some doctor had to graduate at the bottom of the class." 

At least in this country, if patients are failed, they are failed on many levels because there are many minds involved and all of those had an opportunity to give input. That is different in very rural areas where you depend on only a person or two, I am sure. I've seen a radiology tech show something to the doctor that the radiologist and the doctor missed. We all should feel responsible to speak up. 

Very recently I kept bothering the doctors with information until they transferred a couple of patients to other hospitals. The doctor wants to think the treatment plan is fine, and everything will be OK. I bring up facts (I'm hearing more congestion in the lungs, the oxygen requirements are going up, now we're maxed out on the machine) and also try to get their imagination going (if we need to do a tracheostomy, should I just roll the patient into the emergency room and meet you there?). If they can imagine themselves having a terrible night and losing a patient, they prefer getting the patient safely up to a big hospital with an emergency surgical team standing by. 

Even though we supposedly don't have a heirarchy, nurses who go head to head with doctors will end up being overruled because of course if you are highly educated, it is insulting that someone with a lot less education thinks they know better than you do. That's why my approach is always to use facts and signs and if the doctor is particularly arrogant, I'll even be a little naive and ask what this could mean...? Wink. Obviously I know what I am worried about happening, and I just use creativity to get the doctor to think of it. 
Our system is more based on education hierarchy, because in many places there are more female doctors now and more male nurses. I don't think you can completely remove the fact that a more educated person should have more say...but still everyone's input is supposed to be considered. 

@Knave, your doctor was very inexperienced because I've seen delirium and agitation with benadryl overdose as often as I've seen drowsiness. Many drugs give a paradoxical effect when overdosed, and sedatives can cause people to be hyperactive in large quantities. It's good your daughter had you to advocate for her, or she would not have made it. I'm not a pediatric nurse, but I'll tell you they should have given hard core drugs to stop the seizures immediately even if it meant she stopped breathing and they had to put her on a ventilator. Sometimes with an overdose of something sedating like benadryl, there will be a hesitation to add more drugs to the mix. That's a mistake, because people can't breathe when having a grand mal seizure and if it goes too long there will be brain damage. If you paralyze a person and put them on a ventilator, you can prevent the brain damage by providing oxygen. Anyway, there's my two cents worth of info.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I never thought he was a good doctor @gottatrot. He was older and a bit odd to talk to. We rarely have had good doctors, and right now I am so impressed with our PA. Usually we only have one PA in our town, currently we have two! I don’t know if the other is good. I think the last one was good, but everyone seemed negative about him, and he was a germaphobe, but I can’t talk with my own phobias. Anyways, the one I like is there so I have no reason to talk to another.

The PA prior to her arrival I actually liked as well. He was good, but inexperienced; I was sad when he left. This girl now that I like is very experienced, and I like how her mind works.

The system here is difficult, because that is the only medical we have. To get to another you are 110 miles away. If there is no one there, there’s no one there. If there is a rule like that doctor having to ride in the ambulance for a pediatric case, then you have to follow the rule, or you go on your own.

ETA- we don’t have an md. The bad doctor was an md. On occasions we’ve had a real md like him, or another I knew after him, but mostly we have had PAs.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Txshecat0423 said:


> Good job on trusting your gut @Knave.
> My son’s medical issues and illnesses taught me how to speak up and not let anyone run over us…it’s how I earned the witch hat I proudly wear today!


Do you have a photo of your witch hat? I like a good witch hat.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

There's such a ton of stuff I'd like to respond to here, but right now I can stand reasonably upright and have work to do!

Just quickly before I forget though, @Knave, something about neck care I learnt recently, have applied and is making a difference. I'd never thought about it before, but it's actually quite obvious when it's pointed out - we take a lot of care with our posture during waking hours but few of us give it thought for our sleep. I am mostly a slide sleeper and like to curl up like a possum, with my head tucked into my arms. But I tried out this advice to instead make sure I'm not crowded by the headboard and to actually put my head in "tall" posture like in etiquette class when they used to make girls walk around with a book on their head. I've never had a bulky pillow, just a fairly flat but springy one, so I was able to align my neck as suggested - and it felt wonderful! Tall, straight, stretched out - and then when your head is on the pillow, it puts a gentle tension on your neck as well, which spaces your joints out a little and stretches out your neck muscles and feels so fantastic! 

It took me a few "reminders" to the self when settling in to sleep at night - I'd curl up, then go, "No, I need to stretch my neck out!" and change position, and then find myself super comfortable! During the day I noticed that I did not get any kind of aches in the base of my neck over time. In part from being in the right position overnight, and because posture is a muscle memory thing and you become more inclined to walk around with your neck not bent. Also I now have less grating noises when I turn my head from side to side! (For those who don't have it yet, another thing to look forward to - but my joints have always been quite noisy, even as a teenager!)


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

OK, I've fed our lovely new guest who arrived yesterday afternoon, catered to animals, done a significant amount of berry cane macramé (with thorns), one barrow load of mulching, and managed to separate the white calf and the next smallest of our steers from the four big ones and the two best-grown younger ones. I noticed a while back that the white calf wasn't growing as well as the others and looks 2-3 months behind, so need to be able to feed him with cattle cubes and extras for a while - the pasture and rolls of meadow hay are serving the others well, but there's something amiss with the white fella and I don't want him to go backwards.

Later on I'm going to make a big honey/nut slab cake - packed with wholemeal flour, almonds, walnuts, brazil nuts, mixed peel, eggs and generous quantities of cinnamon, ginger, cardamon, cloves, nutmeg, fennel, etc. It's almost like Lebkuchen, if anyone has ever had that - the proper stuff, not the over-sugared industrial offering. But before that I'm going to rest my back a little and join into the conversation.



knightrider said:


> I'll be the exception and say we've run into some super arrogant female doctors, unfortunately. I don't have much respect for doctors. I've had a lot of success with horsey injuries by googling the internet for physical therapy suggestions and doing them . . . after going to the doctor and being told I'd need surgery. Nope. Just conscientious physical therapy.


PT is underrated and underprescribed - and even better for prevention than for cure, but guess what helped my voice come back for the decade _before_ I finally had a couple of appointments with a speech therapist!

I'm sure super arrogant female doctors and lawyers exist too - I've not had the pleasure. With the teaching profession, I always thought the ratios of nice to horrid were about the same for each sex - with medicos in Australia, nope. Australian women generally laugh riotously relating anecdotes to each other of going to male GPs and being told their symptoms are "psychosomatic" - which was also their shorthand for, "Get out of my office so I can tend to a _real_ medical issue!"

And don't get me started on pelvic pain and how women have been told forever, "That's just part of being female - learn to live with it!" I heard a great podcast recently with a female pelvic pain specialist shredding that attitude: The rage in my pelvis - ABC On the other hand, a guy who turns up with erectile dysfunction isn't fobbed off with, "Oh, that's just a natural part of getting to be an older male." There was plenty of investment in those little blue pills, and various other options - but not nearly as much in HRT or in female sexuality post-midlife. Our guest was telling me she listens to a great little BBC podcast about those kinds of issues: Listen to 28ish Days Later on BBC Podcasts




egrogan said:


> Nope, no bother to me! First of all, there's no such thing as too many pictures. Next, I don't know many people who have _too much _thoughtful, stimulating discussion in their lives. 😉 Often I'm a little slow to respond to more thought-provoking discussion because while I read threads on my phone, I can't stand finger pecking on a tiny phone keyboard the amount I often want to say, so I have to wait until I'm back in front of my computer...


I use an iPad just to read sometimes because it displays photographs so beautifully, but typing on that is like having a herd of dairy mice you have to hand-milk, and I can only imagine what it's like to try to type on a phone because I sure lack the masochism to even attempt it. This post is coming to you from a laptop with a proper keyboard!

Very glad that I'm not infringing on journal etiquette with you and always remember to let me know if that happens so I don't go blundering around doing it 500 times before I find out that was not OK! 




egrogan said:


> Thinking about doctors, I'm fortunate that _knock on wood_ to this point in my life, I'm a pretty simple patient. I generally go in once annually for a physical and to re-up my birth control prescription, and that's about it. My lovely husband however has had a lot more issues that require specialists, many that are linked back to whatever toxins he ran through while escaping the Twin Towers on 9/11. He's gotten the run around for years (the World Trade Center health fund has been an absolute joke), and despite living within driving distance of multiple "world class" hospitals, our dysfunctional US health system means that he's constantly churning through new residents and attending doctors, spending hours on the phone with insurance companies demanding coverage for the care he needs, and fighting off attempts to just drown him in medications rather than more deeply understand the root of the problems he sometimes has. In the last year, he's lost his favorite blood doctor to retirement, but finally gotten connected up with specialists at Tufts Medical Center in Boston who go light on the medication, took the time to understand how complex his case is, and actually treat him like a person, not just another insurance claim. It's been exhausting.


Wow, I had no idea your husband was caught up in that. Did he get a lot of smoke inhalation? Smoke from burning buildings is usually deadly toxic, especially from buildings with lots of plastic carpets/furniture/gadgets/foam etc, and many of the toxins are persistent in the blood, body fat etc. I think there's ways to help chelate some of these to get them out of the system but don't know the details.

Was he working there, or happened to be there on the day? Were you aware he was in there when it happened? (But you probably met him later than 2001?) I still remember where I was when I first heard those news. I can't imagine what it was like for anyone who had relatives in there.

I'm glad that you're getting a better medical experience after that runaround and frustration. Why can't these things be attended to promptly, competently and without the circus... 




Knave said:


> Right before big girl turned two, little girl had pneumonia and I was giving her the nebulizer. The nebulizer treatment took 20 minutes. Big girl was running around during this time.
> 
> In the nursery, in a box, in another box for which it came and was brand new, was a bottle of Benadryl. Little girl, even as a baby, had bad allergies.
> 
> ...


Wow, @Knave - I'm so glad you made a fuss. ♥ What a horrible experience, essentially being told you're a hysterical woman by a guy making assumptions about what was going on, and all the while you know your child could die because they don't believe you. And I think a lot of the bystanders would have been silenced because that's a common stereotype, and an effective way of discrediting someone as a witness.

I had a mansplaining story up on this journal a while back about the fire chief telling me we had cow pats on fire when we needed a peat fire put out - well, yours is another one. You're the mother, you were there, you saw what happened, he did not - and yet he thought he knew better than you what you had seen with your own eyes. - I know some of you don't like this idea, but it's a thing and one has to ask oneself two questions - would the reaction be the same to a man saying the same thing? And, does the woman actually have first-hand evidence, experience, understanding, formal training in the subject, etc that's being discredited by the guy? (Yes, both sexes can behave unfairly, but it's important to recognise when there are cultural or systemic problems that make something harder for one person than another based on their gender, colour, cultural background, sexuality, etc.)

Injustice happens in many ways. Ask yourself also what would have happened if the child's parent had been Bill Gates or someone else with a lot of political clout. Would the doctor have served _him_ platitudes? People are usually a bit more careful under those circumstances, but you shouldn't have to be a big cheese to get decent treatment.

I am so relieved you didn't end up with a dead child - but she should have been tended to better in the first place instead of your having to fight like this. 




TrainedByMares said:


> I am not sold on what the doctor says either. They are people and people make mistakes or have agendas that differ from ours.
> 
> My wife and I were married in 2001 and our daughter was born in '03. The delivery doctor cut her and it was a bloody mess. Someone wasn't clean. They came home from the hospital a day later and the next day my wife went into septic shock. I called the doctor ,told him she was shaking uncontrollably and he said she will be fine, I will prescribe antibiotic,pick it up at the local pharmacy. It was a sunday afternoon and now I suspect he was too 'busy' to be bothered. Even though my gut told me it was worse, I followed his direction. He's the expert,right? Sure enough, it got worse and my SIL took her back to the hospital.
> 
> ...


There has been some research in Australia that indicates that induced births become more likely as the weekend approaches! Jokes have resulted about weekends on golf courses. In part maybe the system has to change so that every medical person also has a weekend, or weekend substitute, to spend with family, where they are not on-call. You can imagine them having to choose between time with their own children and patients, and it's not a choice they should have to make. So if they had rosters of five days on, two days off without being on-call, staggered and shared out, maybe that would help. It might also require accepting a modest pay cut to finance such a model - not like these people are underpaid.

I'm glad you also didn't have a tragic outcome on top of all of this.

How's the house repairs?




Txshecat0423 said:


> My son’s team of doctors is a classic case of left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. He has such a multitude of issues and each of the docs are so consumed with “oh, it must be (insert their specialty disease of the week/month/year)” that they can’t be bothered to actually coordinate his care with the myriad of other specialists.
> 
> 
> Of course they (the medical Powers That Be) also told us he would never make a year and he turned 37 in May, so……
> ...


I'm sorry you're dealing with that, @Txshecat0423. My cousin was born (without warning because this was before routine ultrasounds and his mother was low-risk) with Downs, spina bifida and hydrocephaly. The spina bifida left him paraplegic. My aunt was told he wouldn't make it past the age of three and to institutionalise him - he'd need countless operations and medical care. She took him home, brought him up with her other boys, including they all went camping regularly in their old VW van, and he lived until he was nearly 50. One of his pastimes was going to the pub with his father discussing politics. He chose to live in a sheltered facility and workplace as an adult, with his school friends, where they had paid work and organised recreational activities. He could go visit his family like anyone else no longer living at home. One of the nice things about how many European countries make good facilities for people with disabilities these days!

Recently I had a guest here who was caring for her adult son, who at the age of 25 had a bicycle accident that left him quadriplegic. She wishes there were facilities like my cousin enjoyed in Australia.


@gottatrot, I'm sure we'd all be very glad to have you on the nursing team if ourselves or people we care about ended up needing a hospital stay. Speaking of nurses, we're going on a bushwalk with some on the weekend, and other medical staff, organised by Brett's workplace. The nurses where he works are great and I hope they all have time to come on the walk. They are also paragons of good health themselves! If I still can't sit for prolonged periods on Sunday I shall have to lie across the back seat while Brett drives me and Jess to town!


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

My 9/11 story is somewhat unique. I was teaching as a school librarian and had a 3rd grade class in the library doing our thing, when the school janitor rushed in my classroom and said, "Turn on your TV! There's been an airplane crash!" Our school janitor was like a friend of mine . . . and to many people . . . he was valued and important to us.

So we turned on the TV. The first crash had happened, but not the second. The kids and I watched the second plane crash into the building and then we watched the building slowly collapse with the people jumping out. It was so chilling. I told the kids that this would be something they would always remember and would tell this story to their grandkids.

Then we started getting reports of other planes crashing, and were told that the state department and the white house had possible crashes. I was teaching in the Washington DC area, so many of the students' parents were working in that area. Some of the parents were in the Pentagon, where the fourth crash occurred. The kids were worried, some telling me where their parents were.

Then the board of education made a decision, which I disagreed with, not sure still if it was the right decision or not. They decided to send all the kids home on school buses (we had no walkers at the time). When the kids were boarding the buses, we had no idea if there were more plane crashes coming. I felt like the kids were safer at school rather than out on the roads with planes coming out of the sky. Also, every single person working in Washington DC was now on their way home--desperate to get to their kids and safety. There were a lot of false reports of more crashes that did not happen. All we knew was the Washington was under attack. It took some of the parents over 6 hours to get home with the traffic gridlock, and meanwhile their kids were unsupervised.

The kids were mostly calm--more like confused and in shock. We had very few tears. We just didn't know what was happening and what the future held.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I was on my way to go work at a school in Tasmania and having dinner with relatives. There was headline footage of sky scrapers collapsing which nobody was looking at closely and it was turned off while we were all fuming about how sensationalist the Hollywood films were getting and did one of them win a film award or something, why this big fuss.

Early the next morning everyone seemed subdued at the airport, while I was standing at the glass wall looking out with excitement at the jet I was about to board. I'd not flown in over three years.

People were funny on the plane - gloomy, few people talking to each other. Someone said, "I hope nobody flies this airplane into a scyscraper in Melbourne!" and I said, "Why would anyone do that?" The businessman in front of me then turned around, gave me a funny look and handed me his newspaper. 😮

I picked up my car in Melbourne (it was cheaper to backload my car to Melbourne and fly economy than to drive it across the Nullarbor), got on the ferry, and went to sleep since it was an overnight trip. Early the next morning we drove off the unloading ramp at Devonport and that is when I switched on my car radio and heard a lot more about what had happened.

I was teaching the following week and because the younger students were distressed, I made up a group discussion for them so they could get together with their friends, talk about the situation, and answer the questions in their work booklets which were designed to help them process the event and to think about ways in which their generation could make a better world. Later on each group reported back to the class on the main points that had come out of their discussions. Since that class was an English class, the whole activity fitted into the curriculum and also provided pastoral care and support for the students. It was really nice going around while they were in individual groups listening to their humanity and their ideas. This was at a Catholic school with a fair bit of emphasis on social justice and compassion in their programmes, and these kids made me feel hopeful about generational change.

They'd all be in their early 30s now and the people that age I meet are on average an improvement on Generation X!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Brett caught such cute pictures of Jess on the sofa last night:




If you wonder where the rest of the dog is - she has at her disposal two standard pillows such as humans use to sleep on. She likes it when we pile those around her so she can nest in them.

Those last two photos show her recurring resemblance to a Tasmanian Devil.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Hugh also loves nesting in…


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

How do you keep Hugh so clean, @egrogan? If our dog did that, you'd have to send your lovely quilt to the dry-cleaners! 

That's why Jess has her own sofa and bedding - the latter, I have to launder at least once a week because of the dirt and hair. And Her Majesty really enjoys snuggling into freshly laundered, properly lavender-scented bedding...

Brett and I immediately noted the well-stocked tsundoku in the background. Looks like mostly hardbacks, too, with a certain heft to them! 😎


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Brett has just been reading to me a quote which he thinks described the Dunning-Kruger Effect before that was even named!

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring;
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.

Alexander Pope, _Essay on Criticism_


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@SueC, English Shepherds are described as having "teflon coats," repelling wet muck and mud, rain, snow, ice. Of course Hugh gets covered in grime when we are off on adventures (he's never been to the ocean, so not sure how well the coat would repel beach sand!) but I am always a little bit shocked that he can come in the house looking gross, and then I turn around to find him looking clean. I'm curious if @TrainedByMares mares has found that too with his English Shepherd Maya?

haha, Brett has a good eye- it seems that every surface of our house, except in the kitchen and bathroom, is piled high with books. Partially this is because the room that is destined to be my office is still on the "future renovations" list and I don't have a centralized spot to put all my books right now. And still have boxes and boxes that haven't been unpacked yet. Now that the days are getting shorter, the bedside stack will probably continue to grow. Laying in bed with a book makes the early dark a little more bearable. Though I still struggle with the short days.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*POINT POSSESSION SOCIAL TRAIL WALK*

This sunny, very still Sunday morning we made our way to Albany for a group trail walk organised by Brett's colleagues at The Surgery - with yours truly ignominiously installed reclining across the back seat so as not to further aggravate my aggrieved back. Sitting in any kind of chair is still not advisable, and in the car it's even worse because the seat slopes upwards. Walking, and especially lots of uphill-downhills, is excellent at this stage of recovery - and Point Possession delivers those gradients in spades.

This is the track map:

I have not traced the trail outline here, but the track starts near the white knobble underneath the letter *a* in Whaling Cove, traces its way northwest around the coastline to the tombolo, and from there makes a circuit around the tombolo's beaches and Point Possession at the end. Usually we recommend doing that clockwise so that the inner harbour beach can be properly enjoyed and not be an anticlimax after the spectacular, world-class ocean beach, but today the organisers of the outing decided to go widdershins.

Here's a historic map of Kind George Sound to give you all a better idea of the general coastline while indulging our love of old documents:









The view of Whaling Cove from the car park:

The white crescent of sand nestled in the bay is locally known as Fisheries Beach and happens to be our nudist beach. Mostly that seems to be an academic zoning, but one of my past students did assure me she needed brain bleach after encountering an older male teacher of hers on that beach, not knowing it was designated for _au naturel_ enthusiasts.

The folks that were meeting up for the walk:

They're a healthy-looking bunch, as is befitting for people professionally involved in health - lead by example etc.

We're in the next photo - although since I was documenting this walk, you will have to make do with my shadow until later on, when Brett gets a few snaps of me. You can see there's another farm kelpie in attendance, which Jess is very interested in.


I went ahead of the pack for the first stretch of walk so I could get shots of the whole group face-on. Brett and I have an insane top walking speed, because we're both lifelong enthusiastic hikers. I can't run well, but I do have very long legs that give me an unfair advantage for walking. Brett has normal length legs, but appears to be rocket-boosted; so our speeds are well-matched. The distances we can do it for depend on our fitness; our record for a day walk last year was 25km, from Parry Beach to Boat Harbour and back - very remote and totally scintillating, one of the most incredible hikes I've ever done - and you can see a simple slide show of _that_ walk here - use the right arrow to go forward! 

So here's our walking group at the outset:


That's Brett at the head there, with lovely Lauren behind - studied Fashion Design, and is incredibly arty - she's crocheted Grogu from _Star Wars_ for us and at least a dozen other people. You can see some of her creations here...including hand-made bags and upcycled shoes. Best of all though are her costumes and her photoshoots in those, in her Cosplay section - as a Disney princess, Dorothy, and a cowgirl. She also does musicals - we saw her in _Beauty and the Beast_ a few years ago. It's pretty amazing what some of the office staff at Brett's workplace get up to in their other incarnations! 😎

This was the trail ahead.

I now have to apologise in advance for the many imperfectly lined up horizons you're going to get today - I had very little time to set up photos while documenting this walk as they were walking like soldiers on a training march! 

A quick snap of King George Sound:

Views north to the Porongurup Range 50km away in the distance, behind the flat stretch which is actually the town beach - Middleton Beach:

A detail of the floor of a little woodland we passed through:


The view back - Lauren at the head, and Hedi from Estonia behind - Brett had backtracked to see what our dog was getting up to!

Michaelmas and Breaksea Islands in the background!

Nurse Dee coming into view here, in a little stand of Christmas trees:

Jess, Hedi and Lauren:


That's Princess Royal Harbour up ahead, with the industrial area and quay smack bang in the middle of the photo and behind it the Albany town CBD between Mt Melville and Mt Clarence.

And this is the tombolo leading to Point Possession, with Princess Royal Harbour to the left and King George Sound to the right...

If you really, really zoom in on the horizon on the right of the photo, you will see the triangular outline of a mountain in the far distance, 100km away. That is Mt Toolbrunup, the toughest and most jagged climb in the Stirling Ranges - on the summit of which Brett proposed to me back in November 2007! 💞


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The back section of the trail group:

Another shot of the tombolo, this time with a little "Japanese Garden" in the foreground - as we nickname the flora communities typical of granite outcrops.

The King George Sound again - I've always loved how the huge cargo ships look like toy paper boats in a bathtub, when set against the massive coastal landscape here.

A "Japanese Garden" detail - Milkmaids (_Burchardia_ sp). These have a tuber underground which was part of the Indigenous diet. - Some people have the attitude, "Huh, those savages ate _flowers_!" - apparently forgetting that "civilised" humans bulldoze and thereby exterminate the entire ecosystem so they can grow cereals to harvest on an industrial scale, graze cattle on introduced pasture species, etc. The Indigenous Australians always left enough plants and animals for natural regeneration of their numbers. They did not take every single Burchardia out there, just a fraction of what they could have, because they understood that you have to steward, not exploit to the last drop.






That was Brett at the tail of the group, walking in front of me, as we started making our way down to sea level. Next we have a pink-flowering variety of climbing sundew (_Drosera_ sp). Most of this species flowers in white.

The sundew part is to the left of the flowers. This is a carnivorous plant, catching midges and other small insects as fertiliser, for their mineral content. They secrete sticky sap on their catching structures, which traps insects like flypaper and digests them. Because Western Australia has some of the poorest soils in the world - ancient and leached for millennia - we also have a sizeable fraction of the world's carnivorous plant species.

And here we were, going widdershins straight to the ocean beach!


I have no idea who called this Vancouver Beach (on the sign) - the locals have always called it Outer Bramble Beach.

And there is Jess, "below" Michaelmas Island, doing one of her favourite things - playing in water.

So I let everyone else go ahead, and stayed with my dog.


Because there was some serious water play being had...and I wanted photos. ❤


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I love watching this dog round up waves...






Next I attempted to get a "between-the-ears" photo from my dog's perspective. This is as close as that came.

We were putting on our 7-mile boots to catch up with the others.

The Earth didn't seem very straight today... 

It seemed to tilt even more when I got Brett into view... 😬

I don't know what was up with the universe. 😯


It really is a lovely beach...

Just look at Jess in the background again, chasing more waves... 💕

Now Brett, Jess and I were chasing the rest of the group up Point Possession. Frankly, we were surprised nobody stopped to swim!

And lo, they didst appear.

Mt Adelaide visible across the channel next and the dogs just before they suddenly decided they weren't going to be friends anymore.


Just after this photo they had a fight and we had to separate them and keep them on leads after. It's strange they should have suddenly become hostile after getting on in the first half of our walk, but it is possible this is because we weren't walking, and the dogs were getting jealous/defensive in the people situation above. My own dog is worst when she thinks another dog is trying to get a slice of my attention and the other kelpie could well have been the same. Both are grumpy old ladies - Jess 10 and the other 13 and both always alpha and ornery with other dogs.

Strangely too, there were no further signs of aggression from either of them after this episode, and later on we had them off the leash again some of the time.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

This is taken from Point Possession back over the tombolo and the Torndirrup Peninsula.

I first came to Albany for my first professional posting out of university - to work on land capability and conservation research and recommendations. I was 22 years old, with 5 years of tertiary study behind me and a gap year between my science degree and my postgraduate diploma in education - and I had never been to the South Coast before. Pre-Internet, the only photos I had seen were in a library book, but there wasn't much, just some town photos and one of the harbour. 

So I was completely unprepared for how spectacular this part of the world is, and to say that I fell in love doesn't begin to fathom it. This place is so grand it makes you feel your own smallness and insignificance in a very profound way, like when you look at the stars at night - when you _really, really look_ at them, and reflect. I've never been to a more beautiful place in the whole world. Tasmania is as beautiful, and there is more of it, but these two places are equally heart-stopping.

Now for some more people photos!

Hedi and Imogen in the foreground. Imogen always lends us her Robert Galbraith and JP Delaney books - which are incredibly excellent, I should post some book reviews I've done for those! ❤ So I've lent her a Camilla Lackberg book, and Joanne Harris' _Gentlemen & Players_, which has the biggest plot twist I have ever encountered in literature - the kind that had me immediately going back to the start of the book to see how the author had concealed it! Also Imogen and I share a love of cooking. She gave us some home-made tomato sauce and chutney recently; today I could reciprocate with some slices of that soft gingerbread with the nuts and spices that I made on Friday. 

Next we began the descent to Inner Bramble Beach.

The buildings across the bay are Quaranup, the erstwhile quarantine station for new arrivals to Albany. Nowadays it is a camp used by schools, organisations and private individuals. I've stayed there a number of times with students from different schools, when I was teaching here. If you zoom in over the point, you can see an old whale chaser run aground behind the erstwhile munition storage building.



Just as this last photo was taken, Imogen up ahead got into a patch of the washed-up seagrass that was like a bog underneath, and fell through them nearly up to her backside, into the cold water that was contained in the seagrass mass like in a saturated sponge. We were tailing everyone so couldn't warn people! You can see Bonnie, in the blue top, and her daughter in the black, looking. Dee is walking in front of me.

Soon we were on our way again. Imogen was the person who came up with the idea of doing this walk as a group, so it's not nice that she fell into a bog for her troubles. Therefore I spent a lot of time talking to her after this. She hadn't really hiked before and wanted to give it a go, and I wanted to make sure this wasn't going to put her off - also the fact that the group had gone so fast, I was saying that this is not how you normally start hiking! You build up your fitness gradually and you can stop to smell the flowers, go swimming, take photos, have picnics and chats etc, to break your walking. It was just that most of the group were fitness fanatics. Several people at The Surgery cycle 60km before breakfast on a regular basis. And several of those are in their 60s!


I stopped taking photos when we got back full circle to the ascent, and instead Imogen, her sister and I were talking about bras and their perils as we were climbing the steep hill back up. It happened they were wearing sports bras they thoroughly recommended, which have a lot of surface area and nothing that makes point pressure, and they gave me the name of the person who is the rep for them at The Surgery. Also they make good exercise tights apparently!

When we got back to the car park, an instant picnic occurred. People were coming up offering us strawberries, sourdough bread baked that morning, slices of watermelon, olives, and also there was a pear upside-down cake with ginger in the base that Dee made, which was totally delicious. We bequeathed her some of our own gingerbread, and I wished I'd brought the lot - I had no idea there would be a shared picnic, Brett thought it was supposed to be self-catering! Still, there was more food already than anyone could eat with about half the people present bringing extra things to share. Plus, I'm now thinking of doing a day our at our place for the crew, and catering a few things while they're here. We've got orchid season coming up, plus a few of the staff have young children who would loooove our donkeys.


It was a super enjoyable outing, and the exercise was also very good for my back. I could feel concavity between my lumbar muscles for the first time in a week as a result of the uphill-downhill work. That's when I know things are going to be properly on the mend!


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

egrogan said:


> @SueC, English Shepherds are described as having "teflon coats," repelling wet muck and mud, rain, snow, ice. Of course Hugh gets covered in grime when we are off on adventures (he's never been to the ocean, so not sure how well the coat would repel beach sand!) but I am always a little bit shocked that he can come in the house looking gross, and then I turn around to find him looking clean. I'm curious if @TrainedByMares mares has found that too with his English Shepherd Maya?
> 
> haha, Brett has a good eye- it seems that every surface of our house, except in the kitchen and bathroom, is piled high with books. Partially this is because the room that is destined to be my office is still on the "future renovations" list and I don't have a centralized spot to put all my books right now. And still have boxes and boxes that haven't been unpacked yet. Now that the days are getting shorter, the bedside stack will probably continue to grow. Laying in bed with a book makes the early dark a little more bearable. Though I still struggle with the short days.


Maya dodges everything except burrs. She does amaze me with how clean she looks no matter what she has been into which is pretty much everything. Does Hugh eat garden vegetables? Maya eats fresh bell peppers, cucumbers, tomatoes and watermelon...right out of the garden. lol


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*MUSICAL NOTES*

I'm going to throw in, for my own memories, some of our favourite songs we were playing in the car on the way to the trail walk...

If I was given the choice between giving up horses or music, there is no question I would give up horses - music is a way more intricate and necessary part of my life; it's a language, an expression, without which life would become very grey for me; and it's a deep part of who I am. However, I'm glad not to have to make that choice, and that both of them have been around in my life since childhood - because both can very much shape you in ways that I think are very helpful.

Horses are another species to teach you things of importance, a bridge between yourself and your other common-DNA relatives in the great evolving tree of life, a wise guide when you venture out of the humanly constructed world, into nature. They are friends who don't just speak another language and have another culture, they are friends from another species, who understand some very basic things so much better than most human beings seem to.

Music to me is about full expression beyond words, about joy and sorrow and catharsis, about creative expression and humanity, about your relationships with other people and with nature, about your place in this world, about birth and mortality, and the strange workings of the human brain - plus, about getting through your to-do list. Music classically becomes an intricate part of identity; there's a burst of intense listening for most people during teenage years when we start to actively decide who we are and who we are not, what we will stand for and what we will not, what our values are, what makes us similar to other people and what makes us relative outliers.

It can stop there if you don't keep learning and evolving - and one symptom of the stopping is when people become excessively attached to the music of their teenage years, and stop listening. I've spent a fair bit of time on music forums and subreddits, and looking at comments people do on YT, lyrics sites etc. The most closed-minded and usually also the most socially immature people (often egocentric, unempathetic and rude) you'll meet online tend to believe that their favourite band made the best music ever during the time when they happened to be teenagers (without necessarily realising the correlation). Everything after that, they denounce as "crap" - and the very worst of those types will also tend to participate in one of their peculiar sports, which is to insult and denigrate the musicianship and frequently the person of any band member who happened to replace any member who played when they themselves were teenagers. Ho hum. It's a good marker for whom to stay away from online. (Brett was telling me he read a novel about this kind of thing, by Nick Hornby, called _Juliet, Naked_.)

So without further ado, three tracks from a favourite band of both of ours, which Brett introduced me to via his iPod when he lent it to me for outdoors work when we bought our smallholding. Neither of us liked this band as teenagers because of their radio hits, which actually aren't particularly representative of their overall work. Brett's entry point came from the soundtrack to _The Crow_, in his 20s. Mine was via the album _Bloodflowers_ on my husband's iPod in my early 40s.

These three tracks are all all off the _Wish_ album and all of them particularly suited our drive out to King George Sound yesterday. The first of them is very elegiac, and though, like most tracks of this album, a love-gone-right/love-gone-wrong song, the music itself resembles the landscape we were entering and spending time in.






Also I wanted to include a recent live rendition of this same song, which was a slightly different arrangement, owing to not having a second keyboard player on stage - when _Wish_ was recorded in 1992, they performed both parts live with their line-up at the time.






While it's missing the soaring keyboard part, their keyboardist Roger O'Donnell is doing a lovely job just with piano variations. He's a rather serious musician who does a lot of very classical and soundtrack work in his other projects. They're all excellent musicians, as you'd have to be after over 40 years of practice - one of the guitarists, Reeves Gabrels, is ex-Bowie. Also - as usual, the bass player is doing Dr Who allusions, this time on his actual instrument! 

Here's the one we had on driving down the Quaranup Road, when we were five minutes from our destination. _From_ _The Edge Of The Deep Green Sea_ is an epic track - one of the most magnificent songs in existence. This one is best up loud...






Very beautiful music, very torn lyrics - many contemporary songs are about romantic/erotic love as tragedy, and this one catches that mood like no other, to me.

Also, _A Letter to Elise_, which is another of The Cure's lovely pieces demonstrating their intricate ensemble playing, rather than typical pop or guitar hero structures (both of which I really dislike, so I've always been drawn to alternative music like this). We played this one on the back roads en route to King George Sound.






Once again - here's a variation - an acoustic performance of the same song by the band line-up which recorded Wish.






I've done a far closer look at this album as a music journal; instalment one is here. Which reminds me - I need to get back to that.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

I would choose horses. They are sweet music to all my senses.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Well, horses for courses. And that's why I wonder why I even journal here - horses are far from the most important thing in my life, and there is so much else of worth to explore in this universe. I shouldn't keep a "horse journal" and really, I don't.  This is the most un-horse journal ever on this forum, and while I write here, it will always be like that.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I would choose horses too. I enjoy music, but it’s not of any overall importance to me. Big girl is a musician, and I do love listening to her. This weekend she has two separate shows with separate bands!

I don’t know that there is much I would choose over horses. My little family comes first, and God of course (but I do know that is easier to say than mean, and I hope I do mean it), but I think horses come third, and my dog comes fourth.

I would like to pretend I am more well rounded than I am, but really I am not.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Well, @Knave, you were pretty much brought up by horses, weren't you, so maybe you're a bit like the baby duck and the soccer ball from that old experiment on imprinting! 

Which is funny because Sunsmart's great-grandmother was more of a mother to me than my birth parent was - so to an extent I would have imprinted on her. But I also imprinted on my grandmother, the fabulous teacher I was lucky to have for Year 1/2, and random nice adults on the bus or in the general community, and on nature, flora, fauna, landscape, sun, moon, stars, visual art, music, books, ideas, and even St John's gospel, at one point. I travelled a fair bit in my 20s and 30s as well, and that's after growing up in two countries and then relocating across the world at age 11. And the older I get, the more aware I get that time is finite and getting shorter. 

You have to use horses in your work. Stands to reason you live and breathe them. My work is in other things. And I don't think you aren't well rounded, I just think you are super busy and short of time. What would you do if you had a time machine? Spend 12 extra hours a day working with horses, or do a few other things?

I sometimes get claustrophobic on a horse forum, like I am surrounded by My Little Ponies. Expect tons more music posts in the near future! 

But music forums, they have their own triggers for claustrophobia too. Mostly it was like visiting another planet. People treated that like a religion too, and they hardly talked to each other - it was like kids sitting in a sandbox talking past each other. The odd well-rounded person to appear quickly disappeared again, but some of them privately kept in touch with me, away from Planet Bizarre! 😜


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*VALLEY OF THE GIANTS TO BOXHALL ROAD*

Today we did a 14.5km walk on the Bibbulmun trail, from Howe Road to Boxhall Road and back again, and from there to the Valley of the Giants and back again. As we've done so many coastal trails recently, we felt like going back in the forest - and this trail section is just that.

It was cold, drizzly day with a freezing wind blowing, so a good day for being in a forest. We got away early, and didn't stop until Bow Bridge, where we bought an early and savoury morning tea - Brett a toasted Turkish bread with BLT, me one of their giant home-made sausage rolls. What is a sausage roll? For those of you who don't live in a British colony, it's not a sausage in a roll, but a mixture of spiced sausage meat and in the better cases (like at Bow Bridge) vegetables, shaped into a log and encased in puff pastry. In cross-section it appears exactly as your arteries will if you eat these on a regular basis for 20 years. I like getting a combination of salt and protein before a hike, so this fits the bill, plus the people at Bow Bridge aren't owned by some multinational - they are a truly local business.

Then we turned up off the South Coast Highway into Valley of the Giants Road, where we arrived at our trail at 10am. I had not had to travel reclining across the back seat like for our Sunday outing to Point Possession, but had managed to sit in the passenger seat with a towel roll supporting my lumbar region. I was happy to find I could stand properly stretched out at the end of the journey, but both of us rolled and turned our spines as a precaution before putting on hiking packs - first time I have carried load hiking since my injury Sunday before last.


Our trail section ran across the page on the map.

We took some starting photos at Howe Road.



And then we were off!

The Clematis is in full flower. It's one of three common flowering climbers in the Southwest, forming clouds of white in springtime. We also have purple-flowering Hardenbergias, which I documented on the Conspicuous Cliff walk, and red-flowering Kennedias.


Some of the National Park areas are old-growth - although sadly, not many. Here's a relatively old tree.

These are relatively young:

People shouldn't be fooled by sizes. Most people on this planet have never been to properly old-growth forests, because only tiny pockets remain of what once covered vast areas of land. The older trees have nesting hollows in them which are so important for sheltering possums, cockatoos and many other species, for breeding and as a general refuge. Our local black cockatoo species are now endangered from the wholesale destruction of their habitat and their nesting sites over the last two centuries. These are species that thrived for millennia before colonisation.

This is regrowth forest. Just because it looks more natural and spectacular than what most modern humans ever get to see doesn't mean it's a patch ecologically on old-growth forest. What we have destroyed has already driven countless species over the brink and the current rate of loss sits at around 200 species a day worldwide. In the space of my lifetime of half a century, we have also caused the extermination of two-thirds of the wildlife populations that were present when I was born. So, populations of everything except humans, our domestic animals and opportunistic species like rodents are in rapid decline worldwide, and entire species are being wiped out daily. Humans and their domestic animals now have multiple times more total biomass than all the wild species of mammals left on the planet. This is not OK and this is causing ecosystem collapse. You don't need to bulldoze an area to make that happen, although of course, humans have already bulldozed the natural ecosystems off the vast majority of potentially arable land - over 80% of it in Australia, in less than 250 years.

Unlike the coastal heathlands we visited on our more recent hikes, these forests have already been greatly compromised ecologically, in spite of their picturesqueness. The difference is that the heathlands haven't been extracted for resources by industrial societies (just wiped off the face of the earth for agriculture and urbanisation, but what is left around the coast in our region is near-pristine - which is not the case for the more isolated pockets that are now islands in a sea of farmland).

More Clematis:

Shelf fungi:

Some examples of potential nesting hollows / shelter areas:

Though it was a cold, overcast day today, and definite thermal wear weather, the sun occasionally broke through to produce some rather brilliant lighting effects.

This is the base of a living, old tree, which has been excavated by a combination of fungi and hundreds of years of periodic bushfires through the landscape. The black marks are charring from bushfire.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Some views off a bridge where we stopped to have a drink.





Due to the considerable uphill-downhill qualities of this trail section, we sorely needed water after an hour's walking. The dog got hers by swimming and imbibing in the stream itself.

Then it was time to continue.

We had several more stream crossings and took no more photos getting to Boxhall Road, as we were pretty busy with the steep gradients in the final section of today's walk. Also, the act of swinging my backpack up onto my back with my left arm caused a re-aggravation of my still repairing back injury after one our our drink stops. This was causing partial back spasm which affected my stride length and required stretching and deliberate concentration on extending stride length to free up my back again. This is also why I will not be riding until my back is properly healed - both because the twisting motion when mounting and the potential shocks to the back in the upright position by false moves on behalf of either party are likely to cause re-injury, and because the consequences of having stabbing nerve pain and being frozen up on a horse could well cause a fall. Hiking is far more conducive to recovery from back injury than horse riding or mountain biking. The actual walking part is highly therapeutic.

We eventually took some more photos when we stopped to have lunch at the first bridge on our way back from Boxhall Road.

This was the view of the stream from where I was sitting.

After I shared my lunch of carrot/cheese/lemon juice/cayenne pepper salad with Jess, she snuggled right in and Brett got a photo of that.

I was eating a tangelo - my favourite type of citrus, only available for a short time every year. We've got a tree starting to yield in the garden, but it will take a few more years before we don't have to buy any. Tangelos are grapefruit/mandarin crosses the size of an orange. They have the juiciness oranges used to have in my childhood, together with an acidity you don't find in mandarins, and a beautiful flavour if you prefer tart fruit to sweet, as we do. Give us berries, and apples harvested slightly early, and pears, peaches, apricots and nectarines while they are still firm, lower in sugar and higher in acid - delicious. And I prefer my bananas green, and won't eat them ripe - too sweet, mushy and pungent then, for my taste. A banana peel sitting in an office bin after lunch in summer was always enough to make me gag.  Also, if I eat bananas that are too far progressed towards ripe, I get painful blisters on the inside lining of my mouth.

The dog is very happy to share fruit with us. She isn't a huge fan of citrus, but develops a taste for it when we're doing long hikes. So she said yes to tangelo today.

But you can see her going, "Oh, that's sour!" 


This is a fabulous dog - just the best hiking companion you could have, besides, in my case, my lovely spouse. ❤ As today's track section was one we had never walked before, she was extra happy and wagging her tail freely a lot of the way. She always loves to walk, but actually looks even happier when she's somewhere totally new. Maybe she also enjoys going to completely uncharted territory, as we do.

Next, we spotted a strawberry slime mould.

Here's a proper macro shot from one of these on our own place a few years ago.

These are eucaryotic cells (i.e. with an organised nucleus - so not bacteria, but like fungi, amoebae, protists in general) that live single-celled and separate in the environment for most of the time, but will secrete a chemical signal when they want to coalesce with others of their kind, find each other, and form this sort of colony, which is also used for DNA exchange for breeding. The colony is mobile and capable of crawling around. Eventually it grows into a fruiting body which releases spores, which in turn hatch into amoeba-like single cells that go live on their own before starting the cycle all over again. More information on these fascinating critters here.

While we really enjoyed the walk to Boxhall Road, on the way back we were preoccupied with getting back, and with the ice cream that was awaiting us on the way home. This was the last track crossing before Howe Road:

A loooong uphill followed before we were back at our car, where we ditched the backpacks, had hot tea from thermoses and a slice of spice cake each, and then set off to finish the trail section by completing the short walk into Valley of the Giants, which is where our famous Tree Top Walk is. This gave us about 20 minutes of walking without backpacks to close out the hike and stretch out properly again. It also means we have now completed all of the Bibbulmun track from Peaceful Bay to Frankland River Camp Site, there and back again, in sections (and some of them multiple times). That's 42km one way, 84km return, and well over 100km if you count our "repeat" sections on this trail. Of course, we've walked several hundred kilometres on the Bibbulmun over the years, over various sections. The total length of the track is 600km from Kalamunda near Perth down to Albany; we have about half of that total near the South Coast and the forests surrounding Walpole, Northcliffe and Pemberton.

14.5km with a fair amount of gradient left us well exercised and with the beginnings of sore feet. We had earnt our ice cream today, on our habitual stop-off at the Meadery near Denmark. This time I remembered to take photos.

That's hazelnut, my perennial favourite, on the bottom, and rose and almond at the top. 😋

Brett had coffee on the bottom, ginger at the top - and a big smile on his face.


The lady in the shop gave him a spoon because the bottom scoop was very soft-serve today and needed a bit of attention before the whole of the top scoop could be eaten. Brett always enjoys his ice cream - but today it all seemed turned up to 11 for him, so I gave him the bottom two thirds of my waffle cone as well, filled with hazelnut ice cream. I don't particularly like sweetened waffles - he does; and anyway, he'd let me have more than half of the packet of salt and vinegar chips today because I'd enjoyed that so much - so after eating what was on top of the cone, I'd already pretty much reached capacity! 

I thought he'd earnt it - also because he was totally amazing when we had a general life de-briefing in the car on the way out to the hike this morning. I don't have work meetings anymore because I work alone; so Brett and I will have meetings in which I can discuss with him various frustrations and problems with the work I do, and how to put the former in perspective and solve the latter; also we discuss priotities, both for the farm/homestead, and for life itself. It just happened I was a bit disappointed because the first three days of my working week had really just consisted of one giant wash day, a day mostly planting three new fruit trees (it involves excavating, backfilling with a mix of home-made compost, soil and dolomite, planting, watering, staking, mulching and making a protective cage for each tree), and a day mostly planting 25 native tree/bush seedlings in our roadverge rehabilitation area (involves planting, watering, and erecting tree protectors; in this case requiring me to cut over 50 stakes by hand from dead branches because we only had about 30 lengths of bamboo left for re-use), plus various other everyday tasks. I found that depressing because there is so much that needs doing, both useful stuff and the ridiculous tick-box busywork paperwork that bureaucracies increasingly require, which have absolutely no economic return for us nor anything else of practical benefit to our lives. 😕

Like the Tax Department decided to drop the electronic business portal I'd used for years, a couple of years ago. Their new system is only accessible by smartphone and I don't have one, nor do we have useful phone reception out on our farm. This means I had to go back to doing all the business activity statements on paper forms and sending those in four times a year, so if there is a mistake in anything it's almost impossible to get that through retrospectively to the Department, whereas before I could just go electronically update it. Plus, the electronic entry form for our personal income tax has an actual bug in it that doesn't allow us to complete one section correctly. I have sent them several letters about it in the mail, starting two years ago, each of them requesting a response, and they have ignored us completely - we did not get any written response. Meanwhile they keep sending us messages to phone them, when we can't do that and have previously multiple times asked them to either write to us on paper or email us.

Brett has tried phoning them from town in his lunch breaks, but he never stops being on hold for his entire 45 minute break and then he has to go back to work. He once spent hours in town after work trying to get a person on the phone but to no avail - nobody picking up, "You have progressed in the queue" - that's what happens if governments keep cutting staff numbers in public service departments. Twenty years ago, you could get straight through to people in the ATO unless you were calling in the peak tax months. Now it's almost impossible, and we've given up trying. I suppose I will send yet more appeals to them to contact us by email or in writing with the next lot of paperwork, and I suppose they will ignore us yet again and then threaten us with fines if we don't phone them by such and such a date. It's very frustrating.

Anyway, I felt so much better about all of these things after discussing it with Brett, who lends perspective, helps me not to stress about this stuff and counsels just to do the best I can. We are only alive for a short time, and are determined to minimise the impact of all this useless stuff on our existence, to do mostly useful things, and to properly enjoy each other and the beautiful things about this universe before we drop back into the velvet black that was before.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

By the way, for anyone wondering how it is my husband has such superabundant hair at his age, here's a slight clue. He's got South English DNA, and superabundant hair is legendary in the south of England:








Some southern English chappies back in the day displaying superabundant hair and what it looks like when you grow and encourage it. The fella on the left has particularly thick hair even to this day, despite being more than a decade older than us, and happens to have ancestry hailing from Surrey. Brett has his superabundant hair courtesy of his mother, who still has it as an octogenarian (his father is very thin on top) - and his mother's ancestry is also from Surrey. So there's good hair DNA to be had from Surrey populations, obviously. 🧐


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I absolutely love deep conversations with my husband, although sometimes we must remember to make an effort to have them.

Your conversation reminded me of a quote I saw recently. There is a famous western artist I follow on Instagram, and I don’t know who attaches the quotes to his paintings, but I often like them. The quote that struck me so heavily was one which said, “strive to live in a way that is productive, not busy.” This is relevant to me. I think I am always a busy type, running around to do this or that, and feeling guilty when I sit down or don’t have a big long list of things I have done or am doing over the day, albeit my days which are not work days always feel the same.

After really letting the quote resonate with me, I began to look at my non work days differently. I see a big task I accomplished, and allow myself time to sit and relax and still be happy with myself. I may even do something I find fun without a lot of guilt over not doing just “something.” Before I always had to be doing something, but didn’t think about what I actually accomplished. Rewashing the counters 75 times isn’t actually accomplishing that much, but if I did all my yard work and trimmed a horse, then I don’t need to obsessively do “something.” I may just sit down or read a book, or write in one. 

As far as the fruit goes, sour and acidic does not appeal to me. I like ripe and sweet. I don’t like overly ripe, and too ripe of bananas also cause me mouth problems.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@Knave, that's an excellent post. ❤ Have fun writing. 

@TrainedByMares and @egrogan, my dog also likes to eat certain types of fresh fruit and vegetables, and many if cooked - the fresh stuff especially if set a good example; so she was eating diced carrots and tangelo pieces on yesterday's hike, for instance. She will always eat bananas, slices of capsicum, avocado (which I feed in moderation because of the fat content), and shredded cabbage, and sometimes pieces of apple (she prefers red apples), pear, nectarine, cucumber, etc.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

My dogs and cats eat things before tasting them. It’s always a competition with them of course, and when I take the chicken bucket out the cats hurry and jump in the coop and eat half of it before considering whether or not they even like it.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

*FOREST MUSIC*

I was thinking about music that is about or evokes forests - and find that there is far less of that than for seascapes, mountains, meadows, the starry sky, and the weather. This directly reflects the fact that relatively little of modern human experience is set in forests, and that the other things on that list can't be annihilated as easily.

Here is the first piece of music that came to mind when I thought about music written for forests, and for the people in it. Those of you who lived through the 90s will almost certainly know this track. It was specifically composed to bring attention to the threat to the world's remaining forests and the Indigenous people still clinging on there. It's surprising to me that it works so well, since most of it is electronic, and the voices are sampled from UNESCO recordings and reconstituted into the music - but it does:






Something acoustic that fits the bill, from an alternative band that's been my favourite Australian band to listen to since I was about 14.






Here's a super gorgeous track with a lot of forest imagery. The words are a WB Yeats poem set _beautifully_ to music. It's so lovely it often makes me cry.






That is from an entire album of WB Yeats poems, one more of which you will hear later. However, this was not the first foray of this artist into Yeats' poetry - here was his first, which always made me catch my breath from the first time I heard it as a teenager. It's narrated by an Irish traditional singer from Galway, Tomás Mac Eoin. Information from the album notes:
















_Tomás Mac Eoin_

Here's the piece, which is also filled with forest imagery, with a beautifully made clip.






The Gaelic folk tales about faeries in forests are similar to Indigenous Australian tales about spirits of place - it's really a metaphor for things that are otherwise hard to convey, but contain a truth that needs expression.

Another forest song, which to me has always been a running-in-the-forest song...






You really get a sense of being surrounded by tall trees in this one.

More forest songs later.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Here's a famous classical piece that works for a forest setting, for me, but is really about flight and anywhere that happens, and about the beauty and fragility of the bird flying, also as a metaphor for other things.






Changing genres, here's a foresty sort of Cure song - though when we're watching recent performances of this song, I'm always saying to Brett, "Look at the backdrop images...that's not a forest, that's just a plantation monoculture!" 






The clip of this particular performance shows the putting-together-musically of a composition like this very well, and also highlights bassist Simon Gallup's rather hilarious and endearing tendency to, dare I say it, _gallup_ all over the stage visiting all his bandmates. Now there's a bit of nominative determinism...  I can never watch this kind of thing without wanting to put a pedometer on him to work out how many miles he averages in a show. He's a poster child for incidental exercise, as well as deliberate exercise (avid mountain biker etc) - and 59 in this clip. I also would like to work out which of either him or their drummer Jason Cooper use the most calories in a performance, because I think it's a close contest.

I will go out with a fitting sad tune, about the mortality and extinction of the faery folk, which fits also the annihilation of the world's forests, and by metaphor, our own mortality. WB Yeats' words again.






_Soon shall our wings be stilled 
And our laughter over and done 
So let us dance on the waves 
Let us dance in the sun_


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

@knightrider & @egrogan, here's an article you might like - fully referenced, hyperlinked etc. This comes from _The Conversation_, an Australian project in journalistic excellence and appropriate social critique. And by the way, it focuses more on Australia and its troubles than other countries, but will look at global issues as well. Since you two live in the US you might like to see an article on your own country. The link actually came to me from an American pal.









US is becoming a 'developing country' on global rankings that measure democracy, inequality


The United States came in 41st worldwide on the UN’s 2022 sustainable development index, down nine spots from last year. A political historian explains the country’s dismal scores.




theconversation.com





Comparing Finland to both the US and Australia is always an interesting exercise with the indices also discussed in this article.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Here's one for general consumption! 

Apparently the Swedes have a rotten fish delicacy.









Everything You Need to Know about Swedish Surströmming


A very detailed guide to opening, eating, and surviving surströmming, the stinky Swedish delicacy made from fermented Baltic herring.




www.scandinaviastandard.com


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

And here's a few choice items from Australia's top two satirical institutions.









Airline Posting Massive Losses Can Somehow Still Afford Giant Salaries And Bonuses For Executives


WENDELL HUSSEY | Cadet | Contact The nation’s favourite airline has today confirmed that times have been tough over the last few months and years. Qantas and its subsidiary Jetstar have fronted the media this morning claiming the company has posted a massive loss of $860 million – which has...




www.betootaadvocate.com













Labor vows to plant a tree for every new coal mine it approves this year


"What a wonderful gift for future generations"




www.theshovel.com.au













Queen reunited with 80,000 of her former corgis


"We've saved you the best spot"




www.theshovel.com.au













Finally, rich white man in charge


"What a refreshing change"




www.theshovel.com.au













Cost of living crisis forces unemployed 73-year-old to take first ever job


His $145 million a year salary is believed to be above the minimum wage




www.theshovel.com.au













The Shovel’s view on the Donald Trump FBI raid


We're no fans of Donald Trump. But the FBI's raid on the home of a former president sets a dangerous precedent.




www.theshovel.com.au













Facebook’s ‘metaverse’ is so realistic fans can’t tell whether Mark Zuckerberg is actually in Paris or not


“Hang on, is he actually there? I thought this was supposed to be virtual reality, not real".




www.theshovel.com.au













Minimum wage worker celebrates $1-an-hour raise by buying 450ml of petrol


"We'll be loosening the purse strings tonight!"




www.theshovel.com.au


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

For anyone who is facing conspiracy theories in their own circles - and for me, to archive.









What happens when a loved one is consumed by anti-vaccine conspiracy theories? In Dyani's case, she wrote a book


First came the texts. Then the links to YouTube videos claiming to know the 'truth' behind COVID-19.




www.crikey.com.au













World leadership is failing on climate, but history can be changed by leaders of another kind


An extract from award-winning scientist and IPCC author Joëlle Gergis' new book, Humanity's Moment.




www.crikey.com.au





No riding until my back is 100%. Currently hosting a really gorgeous group of people over the long weekend, including an LGBTIQ couple who I would be superbly proud to have for my brothers, one of whom is a professional musician and did me the honour of playing my violin so I could hear what it can sound like when it's played by someone who really, really knows what they are doing. ♥

♥ these guys, and their fundamental human decency, and I actively dislike the bigots who make life harder than it needs to be for them, or for people not belonging to the dominant cultural or gender group, or for anyone based on "us versus them" - this is my human family. Disrespect them, and you disrespect me. I judge people on the contents of their hearts, not on the colour of their skin, their gender, or their sexual orientation.

And there's a song about this kind of thing:






This one plays fine on the YT link - and has the lyrics on the screen.






I've featured this song before but this time would like to draw attention to the writing on the singer's guitar in the live excerpt above just to forestall any misunderstandings about the meaning.

And just to address another possible misunderstanding, the singer has been married a long time to an erstwhile girl he met in high school drama class. The face-painting is part growing up a Bowie fan, part that his wife likes it that way, and probably a good dash of BS filtration, because if people judge you on how closely you conform to gender stereotypes then they are probably not worth knowing - not until they've developed a bit of an understanding of human beings and grown a heart. It's not worth it surrounding yourself with people who don't accept you as you are.

Lovely group breakfast - I made eggy pancakes with berry/citrus sauce for us all. No photo but this is the same principle when we do it with waffles:

We still have tons of berries in the freezer, and I'm currently working on tying the new berry canes to the espaliers - and establishing another espalier from the runners around the place.


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