# Is this a bad thing?



## ShannonSevenfold (Oct 11, 2008)

Sadly, I'm going to have to say I agree. Good intentions, but a bad idea.


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## amy (Nov 26, 2008)

Yeah... I saw the article too. I thought the same thing. 
I was dissapointed with Clinton for not thinking of all the horses that would be sent to slaughter because of the Jag babies. I would be mad if I were Smart Chic Olena's owners. Definately makes his value less. 

Also, with all these breeders going to this one stud, there is a higher chance of inbreeding in the future... especially those that are crossbred and won't have papers to say that they are from the same father :/

I really like Jag but I don't like the idea.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree completely. But you know what they say......"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." It is a nice try to make some money for the college but I have been to their campus and looked at their tuition. They are not exactly hurting for money (especially in the equine programs). 20 years ago, this would not have seemed to be such a big thing but with things are as they are now, it is going to end badly in the long run.


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## Midwest Paint (Oct 21, 2008)

As for ruining Chic Olena's value, no. It will remain highly valued as it is still under select breedings. As for tons more of horses being produced and flooding the market.. Probably not. At $1500 a breeding, I dont think there is much to worry about in that regard. 

Now as for "Chicoutmyblingbling" value.. It will decrease as an open breeding market on him to open bookings, not exactly what one would want to do with their stud. It may loose any breeders trust incentives with going open for breed varieties.

When it comes to studs, you want as many foals on the ground as you can safely put out to a show market. But you want to go either two ways to hold or increase value. One is an exclusive market or a select market. What Anderson is doing is not really what AQHA or APHA would consider "improving the breed" with his program. I am not fond of it, nor impressed. This was a nice stud, overpriced because of his signature and thats it, but now yes, with many of his studs offspring being open to various breeds, and wrecklessly, that studs lineage wont hold value generations down the line because of this. But the lineage above him wont be effected. So, if I were looking into breeding outside of my stock and looking to bring some Olena into my stock, it wont be with anything Chicoutmyblingbling. I dont mean to be harsh, but I am not impressed with this action, nor with Anderson himself.


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## AussieDaisyGirl (May 21, 2009)

Yeh I have to agree... not a very good idea at all. For so many reasons.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Mmmm, I have to disagree. Maybe it's not the greatest idea ever concocted, but $1500 still isn't anything to sneeze at. It's not a fee idiots with horrifically conformed mares are going to be willing to pay. In my experience, the vast majority of slaughter bait (aside from racehorses of course) is still from cheaply bred horses. People who have no idea what they're doing simply aren't willing to pay a $1500 stud fee when they can breed to Ol' Dobbin down the road for $100.

And if nothing else, I think this gesture may actually HELP the horse community and even Jag's value. $1500 is still steep enough to make people serious, so the crossbreeding will help eliminate the faults we see running rampant in pedigreed horses and very likely produce even better offspring. Typically, only people with a goal in mind are likely to pay that to produce a crossbreed, so being unable to compete in registry shows isn't likely to be an enormous issue, they'll just turn to open competition.

However, the price is still low enough to encourage people to breed to a quality stallion since to the serious breeder, the worth of the foal is obviously going to outdo what they'd get breeding to some random $500 stud. I think it helps the "little" breeders who know what they want to produce but just can't afford astronomical stud fees to get it.

However, it COULD go bad. You could see a serious influx of the same blood causing problems down the road with inbreeding. It's really hard to say, but I don't see it being a "terrible" idea.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm really disappointed in him. It's a very bad idea for many reasons.


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## srod (Jul 1, 2009)

Okay. I must disagree. With all due respect, 
1) I don't think you need to worry about diminishing Smart Chic Olena's value; he is an NRHA $9 million sire and a NRCHA $1 million sire. 
2) Will Clinton Anderson's decision to stand his stallion for a $1,500 cause an influx of breeding/slaughter - You've got to be kidding me. Although I completely agree that many people make foolish choices when it comes to equine reproduction, which can have devestating consequences, this will be a problem regardless of whether Clinton Anderson decides to stand his stud.
3) Cross-breeding has been used for centuries to improve various breeds. As long as the books have not been closed by the sponsoring breed association, offspring can be registered. 
Finally, I do understand why you worry about the legions of unwanted and/or neglected homes that need a good home. Of course we all wish that all horses had great homes, like the three of mine do, living on 15 acres of pastureland in Texas with a big 2 story barn, lots of attention and full vet and ferrier care. However, the reality is, this is not the case. Although I am a horse lover to the core, I think that the real tragedy is the closing of the horse slaughter facilities in the United States, the result of which is that horses must be sent down to Mexico for slaughter, where instead of being humanely euthanized, they are subjected to a barbaric death in which knives are plunged into their withers until they bleed to death. If you want to be angry at anybody, be angry at those responsible for this, and not at Clinton Anderson. 
Rich people are just as capable of abuse and neglect as poor people, and a $1,500 stud fee is hardly anything to sneeze at. I have observed that Clinton Anderson works tirelessly to educate and inspire horse owners so that they may be safe and successful in their equine pursuits. Your time will be better served studying and practicing his methods than criticizing his decision to share world class bloodlines at a price that average people can afford. 
In summary, don't blame Clinton Anderson for the problems of the world. He is part of the solution.


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## Bellarina (Mar 18, 2008)

*Would you buy this for 1,500?*

1,500 is a small price to pay for a stud fee-and a small price for this filly!

If you all will recall FEUERTANZER, the trakhner stallion that stood in CA. He was injured and cut his career short so they started breeding him for free. I jumped at this opportunity (I was 19 y/o) and raised a beautiful filly for dressage, and hunters.
All I had to pay was the collection fee, vet fees, and shipping. BUT SO DID EVERYONE ELSE! He put out around 150+ foals each year.
As you can see this filly is worth about 3-4k low end. The market was flooded with these foals. I hand raised this girl and ended up selling her at 3 years old for $1,500. 
*LET ME DEFINE HAND RAISED: Endless vet, farrier bills, the best feeds, trading equipment for Alfalfa, shipping and schooling, hours of brushing, tacking, watching C.A. and using his techniques in the round pen, schooling on the trailer...I could keep going for a while. Oh, and this filly would jump in the trailer and I would take her to the car wash, vaccume her and wash her with the pressure washer...I did all the de-sensitising stuff!* 
I currently have a Boomernicker mare O/O a Boogie's Flashy Jac daughter and I am scared to breed to jag for the fear of a flooded market.


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## Bellarina (Mar 18, 2008)

*Feuertanzer*

Photos of feuertanzer


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

i dont know about Clinton Anderson or Jag, but from what i have heard, im guessing Jag is a pretty decent horse? i believe i saw pics of him and hes absolutely handsome... from what i remember. (please, correct me if im wrong people!!!! lol)

anyway, i think 1,500 is CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!!!! i would DIE to breed my mare to a great stud for that cheap. never-the-less ANY mare i had all together for 1,500. but i think this is where this guy is making a mistake. in order for his stud fee to increase he needs to be putting out quality foals. with this... i just dont think hes going to get it. theres going to be too many grades of mares breeding. let me just say, we just had our mare bred to Artiscape. it was a $7,500 STUD FEE! and she had to be accepted to breed to him first, because they want ONLY high quality mares to be breeding to him to get the best chances of a successful foal they can. this way his value continues to increase. this horses stud fee is peanuts compares to the one we just paid, and from what i remember he was a pretty decent horse (again, correct me if im wrong!).

im not going to factor in slaughter because even if he didnt do this there would still be slaughter and i dont think hes going to really make that big of a dent in it anyway. 

all other things aside, i think hes hurting himself by doing this, and possibly ruining a career for his horse at stud. but thats just my 2cents. i think it was definately done with good intentions.... but i highly agree with Smrobs- "the road to hell was paved with good intentions"


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