# Breed for beginner



## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

My kids 3&8 and myself are beginning to get into horses. We're taking lessons on horsemanship (grooming, caring, ect) right now. Jumped in way to soon and bought the wrong her for us (lesson learned). My kids are big for the ages and I'd like to get a small horse/large pony for all of us to learn on (13-14hh) What are your suggestions?


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

I think breed has less to do with, then quality of past training, experience and overall temperament. Having said that, there are breeds that tend to be more agreeable in general.

Quarter Horses are a nice choice. Some smaller draft crosses can be quite nice...sturdy and laidback. Appaloosas are usually suitable. Paints not so much...tend to be a bit too strong minded, but a Paint cross might work nicely. Standardbreds are idiot proof, but can be frustrating to retrain as suitable mounts...so if you go that way, you need to get one that doesn't have canter issues. There are lots of pony breed choices...that's a very one on one issue as a lot of ponies can be just brutal.

Again though, suggest that age, training and temperament be your first criteria.


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

MY trainer said the same thing about the paints. I have really been thinking about a POA or welsh due to their smaller stature. My 3y/o is the size of an older 4y/o and my 8y/o is the size of a 12y/o so I want something stout but not to tall. Something that we can use for a while until we're ready to move up.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

I really wouldn't be too concerned about the breed just yet. I'd be more concerned about finding a horse with a good temperament. In my experience, you can normally find a nice quiet quarter horse and they tend to be great first horses. I also think warmbloods are lovely quiet horses, but I think they would be a bit too big for your children to handle at the moment. Just be aware, that there are exceptions to every breed and that you could find a nice quiet arab. Also, don't be put off if theres a quiet grade horse. Breed means nothing and you can find some amazing grade horses that do really well in competitions. Best of luck finding that perfect horse.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Haflingers usually have easy, calm temperaments, (at least the ones around here do, but they are mostly amish bred) and are usually stout enough to carry an adult.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Horse Dreamer said:


> MY trainer said the same thing about the paints. I have really been thinking about a POA or welsh due to their smaller stature. My 3y/o is the size of an older 4y/o and my 8y/o is the size of a 12y/o so I want something stout but not to tall. Something that we can use for a while until we're ready to move up.


Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack. 

I'm not as well versed in pony breeds, but I've always heard good things in general about the Welsh breed.


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

I love the look of a haflinger.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> Haflingers usually have easy, calm temperaments, (at least the ones around here do, but they are mostly amish bred) and are usually stout enough to carry an adult.


Yes! Tend to be a wonderful breed and definitely one to consider.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Just remember too, that ponies can have a big attitude  In my experience, most of the prissy little show ponies have a short man syndrome and always seem to think that they are the biggest, bossiest meanest horse around. But then again, you can find some perfectly behaved ponies too. Horses are just too complicated sometimes.


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack.
> 
> I'm not as well versed in pony breeds, but I've always heard good things in general about the Welsh breed.


Stubborness seems to be the BIG issue with my mare. She learned she could bully me and that was that. I'm doing better on the ground with taking charge, but I'm not confident enough in the saddle to try her out again. First and last ride on her she decided she was done and started acting up, so me not being confident she got her way and now she knows she can. I'm not willing to put the kids on her. They really want to ride. The lessons have kept them happy, but we've only road a few times so far. My trainer is all about care and horsemanship first. She says if you can't care for them properly you don't need to be on them. I agree.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Well breeding does have to do with temperament, for instance, I wouldn't get a TB. I've seen calm ones but generally they are more of a demanding hyper breed. Same with Arabians.. I mean they're calm quiet ones but in general I'm talking about.


My vote is on a QH, in general, they are very easy keepers and usually have great temperaments.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Horse Dreamer said:


> Stubborness seems to be the BIG issue with my mare. She learned she could bully me and that was that. I'm doing better on the ground with taking charge, but I'm not confident enough in the saddle to try her out again. First and last ride on her she decided she was done and started acting up, so me not being confident she got her way and now she knows she can. I'm not willing to put the kids on her. They really want to ride. The lessons have kept them happy, but we've only road a few times so far. My trainer is all about care and horsemanship first. She says if you can't care for them properly you don't need to be on them. I agree.


I find that a lot of them are 'self-aware'. Meaning, they know how big and how strong they are, typically through having been spoiled early on because of their natural inherent tough-mindedness . Once they have that type of knowledge, it's a whole new ballgame.

If you can once get them agreeable with you, they are mentally tough mounts, which is a huge asset. It's getting there that is the mountain that needs to be climbed.

It sounds like you have a good plan for moving forward and an ideal mentor to help you get there. Don't give up on your girl, she'll be a wonderful teacher, but certainly it seems that a more suitable mount is in order for this stage of the game.

I have the utmost confidence that you'll get there and be riding your mare in the future and enjoying her. Best wishes and keep us updated!


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks ya'll. I'm always encouraged after visiting with you!


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Horse Dreamer said:


> Thanks ya'll. I'm always encouraged after visiting with you!


I just realized you're in Oklahoma. Some very good friends of mine are moving back there this spring. If you haven't found a suitable mount by then, drop me a PM and I'll put you in contact. They know EVERYBODY in OK and Texas in the horse world and could probably point you in the right direction.


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks Mercedes! I will.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>> Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack. _

IMO I would not recommend QHs without equally recommending Paints--- because overall, the two breeds share ALOT if not most of the same bloodlines as well as alot if not most major traits..... In my experience I think there are about the same % of quiet sweet beginner suitable Paints as there are quiet sweet beginner suitable QHs. 

There are individuals and lines in BOTH breeds that might not be the easiest horses-- but I am saying overall IMO the two breeds overlap a whole lot and probably resemble each other in type, temperament and uses more than any other 2 breeds.

That said, I am not a Paint person or a QH person particulalry-- I agree that the individual is more important than the breed unless there are breed-specific things you want to do-- 

Of course as always, all else being good, I recommend Appaloosas the most. .


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Eastowest said:


> the two breeds share ALOT if not most of the same bloodlines as well as alot if not most major traits.....


No they don't. The QH has become specialized for several different disciplines. You will not find Paint blood in a QH bred for reining, cutting, ranch, racing, hus, dressage, halter or pleasure.

Anybody breeding QH's or Paints for the serious QH or Paint markets, don't cross the breeds. And any horse with one or the other breed more than three generations back no longer counts as a 'crossbred' because there isn't enough genetic material to worry about.

If we are to believe what you're saying, then the TB and the Arab, and a whole other list of breeds are essentially the same because they came from the same bloodlines...but clearly they are breeds unto themselves.

The horse in my avatar is by a roping bred Paint stallion...not one registered QH within the first 5 generations.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>> No they don't. The QH has become specialized for several different disciplines. You will not find Paint blood in a QH bred for reining, cutting, ranch, racing, hus, dressage, halter or pleasure._

You are right that you won't find too many registered Paints in most QH pedigrees, because up until recently, AQHA wouldn't register the excessive white offspring of QH x QH so, necessarily, those horses had just APHA papers.

HOWEVER, if you take the TOP horses bred for reining, cutting, hus, halter, or WP in both AQHA and APHA and compare their bloodlines, you will more often see similar than dissimiar lines.

_>>>>> Anybody breeding QH's or Paints for the serious QH or Paint markets, don't cross the breeds._ 

????
Paint World Champion, Paint Congress Champion, and Superior Halter stallion
Kids Gold Style Paint
His sire is a leading QH halter sire and his dam's pedigree is full of the same QH bloodlines you would find behind top QH halter horses.

APHA Superior Halter, 2008-2009 APHA leading Sires List.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/mighty+ambitious
His dam is a QH, his sire's dam is a QH, 7/8 of his gr. grandparents are QHs. The horse himself is also double registered QH.

Superior Heading, Heeling, Steer Stopping, multiple top 5s at the APHA World and a reserve World Champion--
Makin Us Watch Paint
https://www.painthorsestallions.com/makn_us_watch.htm
His dam is a QH, his sire's dam is a QH, 7/8 of his great-grandparents are QHs.

APHA World Champion in Junior reining in 2007. 
Spooks Gotta Gun Quarter Horse
Spooks Gotta Gun : AQHA-APHA Bay Overo Stallion
Pedigree is all QH. Horse is double registered Paint and QH.

APHA World Champion in reining.
The Big Gun Painthttp://www.hicksqh.com/stallions/spooks-gotta-gun/index.html
Sire double registered paint and QH, dam has a QH dam. 3/4 grandparents are QH, 7/8 gr. grandparents are QH.

APHA World Champion 2 yo Hunter under saddle
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dressed+the+best
Both parents QH.

APHA World Champion Ama. Western Pleasure, Multiple WP futurity winner, over 300 APHA WP points.
Shes Inviting Paint
Show Horses - Roberts Family Show Horses
Sire is a Congress-winning QH.

So there are definitely some people breeding for the serious Paint market that DO use QH close up and often-- the same lines that are winning in comparable disciplines at AQHA shows.

_>>>>> And any horse with one or the other breed more than three generations back no longer counts as a 'crossbred' because there isn't enough genetic material to worry about._

APHA accepts using a QH or TB parent for a fully registered Paint, so for APHA, Paints with QH or TB blood are not considered crossbreds regardless of where in the pedigree those other breeds fall. I wasn't calling Paints with QH parentage crossbred. They are fully registered Paints according to APHA.

_>>>>>If we are to believe what you're saying, then the TB and the Arab, and a whole other list of breeds are essentially the same because they came from the same bloodlines...but clearly they are breeds unto themselves._

The closing of the books for the Arabian breed pre-dated the formation of the TB, so moot point. The TB allowed crossing to Arabian into the 20th century, but their books have been closed to that option for at least 70 years now (and the cross was not being used for many years prior to its "official" removal). APHA, on the other hand, still allows crossing to QH with no limits as to amount or frequency of its use. 

And I never said that I do not consider APHA and AQHA to be seperate breeds-- only that I consider them similar breeds with similar bloodlines and similar traits, overall.

_>>>>> The horse in my avatar is by a roping bred Paint stallion...not one registered QH within the first 5 generations. _

Link to pedigree, please? I would like to see how he is bred.

I am not saying that APHA x APHA breeding does not occur, sometimes for generations, and that certain lines have less recent QH influx-- I am saying that IMO because of their common roots and because of the continued allowance of QH blood, and the common use of it, my opinion is that the breeds, ON THE WHOLE, are more similar than they are different-- 

And, in keeping with this thread, in both QHs and Paints (as overall breeds) IMO there is comparable potential for finding temperaments suitable for a beginner.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

To the OP: Don't bother listening to the breed bigots and find a horse that is right for you. Don't limit your search to ponies as finding a well broke one is difficult and likely more expensive than a larger horse. You need a horse that is old and well trained. Don't worry about conformation, sex, size, breed or color. Worry about the amount and quality of the training the horse has. Find someone that is knowledgable and let them help you find the proper horse for you.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack.
> .


 
I would bet that you don't have alot of experience with the paint breed either. If you have worked with just a handfull of individuals of a certain breed you shouldn't be pigeon holing the entire breed. 

I also have to agree with Eastowest that you are wrong about AQHA blood in APHA horses. Do more research before offering definative advice to beginners please.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Horse Dreamer said:


> Stubborness seems to be the BIG issue with my mare. She learned she could bully me and that was that. I'm doing better on the ground with taking charge, but I'm not confident enough in the saddle to try her out again. First and last ride on her she decided she was done and started acting up, so me not being confident she got her way and now she knows she can. I'm not willing to put the kids on her.


I agree with many of the other posts that you shouldn't worry about which breed at this point. I suggest continuing to work on your experience and confidence. Horses are all about leaders, and if you're not confident enough to be the leader, the horse will be, whether it's a green or dead broke one.


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> To the OP: Don't bother listening to the breed bigots and find a horse that is right for you. Don't limit your search to ponies as finding a well broke one is difficult and likely more expensive than a larger horse. You need a horse that is old and well trained. Don't worry about conformation, sex, size, breed or color. Worry about the amount and quality of the training the horse has. Find someone that is knowledgable and let them help you find the proper horse for you.


 
Our instructor is helping in the hunt. I have told her that if she wouldn't put one of her new students on it, I don't want it. Unfortuntly having spent my larger alotment on Molly I don't have much to spend right now, but trainer says you never know when you'll find the right one at your price. So, fingers crossed


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

PaintHorseMares said:


> I agree with many of the other posts that you shouldn't worry about which breed at this point. I suggest continuing to work on your experience and confidence. Horses are all about leaders, and if you're not confident enough to be the leader, the horse will be, whether it's a green or dead broke one.


 
I think that's my *biggest* problem, lack of confindence. My kids seem to be more confident already around the training horses than I am. I guess as an adult and mother I worry more about getting hurt than they do. My three y/o girl has no fear what so ever it scares the daylights out of me. She'll just walk right up and start petting. Even with Molly she goes right to the fence calls her and starts petting on her. Of course Molly stands body length along the fence so the kids can pet her.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Mercedes said:


> Yeah, your trainer and I are on the same page where Paints are concerned. I've known some tough minded horses, but the Paint breed seems to excel in this area. About the toughest nuts to crack.
> 
> I'm not as well versed in pony breeds, but I've always heard good things in general about the Welsh breed.


I've actually never heard that about Paints! (learn something new every day I guess haha!)  I actually own a registered Paint (solid buckskin) and she is the CALMEST horse I know, VERY very willing and extremely sweet and smart! Here's some pics of her...I wouldn't rule out ANY breed because there are always exceptions...but I'd say if I HAD to pick a breed, QH's are usually all of the above. (and most Paints have QH bloodlines which is why I was surprised about the above opinion of them)




























Here's a video too...there's nothing this mare wouldn't do for me! And she was a green broke 7 yr old rescue when I got her a year ago and I've only been riding 3 years so let me tell you she is VERY forgiving!!!  

So I guess I'm kinda biased about Paints maybe!! hehe


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

She is BEAUTIFUL Hoofprints. I love the buckskin. I've wanted one ever since I saw Spirit. I think I'm worse than the kids where horses are concerned. Having grown up wanting them and never being able to. I guess I still have that little girl wants a pony syndrome. 

My Molly is a rescue. I have her for sale, only because I spent my alontment on her and don't have the funds to send her to training, but I go back and forth. I think that once she's had some time on her she'll be a great horse. She needs a lot more time, but she loves kids and when they are near she seems so calm and loving with them. I've already told my husband that if we get one at a cheaper price she's just going to have to stick around as a buddy until we can send her for retraining.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks horse dreamer! I too ALWAYS wanted a pony growing up, but was never even given lessons :-( So when I turned 26 and got married, I decided to start lessons, and 3 yrs later, got Sandie  She was definitely a diamond in the rough and I will do anything and everything in my power to make sure this is her forever home!

I wish you the BEST of luck with your mare! You say you can't afford training, was she green broke or anything when you rescued her? Proper training is certainly essential and professional trainers are great for that, but I'll bet if she's willing and you had the time, you could train her yourself...I've learned a TON in the past year about training my mare from professional trainers, books, and places like this forum! If you want to give it a try and have questions about where to start, feel free to start a thread on here, or ask me! ;-) I may not be a paid trainer but I'd consider myself to have at least the basic knowledge for building a good foundation with a green broke horse!


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

She is broke to ride, Hoofprints. She's actually really awesome on the ground. We have 60 acres, but she stays pretty much on the south 5 where her little barn's at and all I have to do is call and she'll come running. She halters like a breeze and tacks up so easlily. The weather here has been horrible but yesterday it wasn't raining, so I went out called her up to groom her. I don't even have to tie her if the halters on she'll stand stock still. I brushed her down and picked out all *four hooves!!* Now for me that was a big deal, because I haven't been brave enough to do her back ones by myself before. The issue is that I don't so enough leadership and confidence and when she starts acting up (walking off when trying to mount, jerking head, turning around when she doesn't want to go somewhere) I let her have her way. We have started lessons but have only had a few riding lessons so far. Like I said, my kids seem more confident than me. I really go back and forth, I don't want to sell her I want to keep her and have her tuned up or retrained and the kids are getting thier horse fix with lessons, right. It's really tuff for me, because I do thoroughly enjoy her even without being able to ride her. And the more questions I ask and the more I hear I think our problems stem more from my inexperience than her lack of willingness. We just need more time.


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

Hello there! well as for an even tempered pony breed ive found POA's to have the best temperment...that an halflingers arent bad though there are some in my area that cop an attitude. If your looking to buy a stocky pony the ranch i work at breeds POA's for reining. The only issue being how much you wanna spend on the horse...if your looking for a cheap horse i cant help you much.

To be honest though i dont think you need to look for a specific breed. A short stocky heinz 57(mix breed) might be right for you! A QH cross with a mild tempered pony might do you well. In general i would steer clear of TB's an arab's though. Some people, me included, love to argue against the stereo type but in truth most arabs an TBs are hot heads....

Hope this helps a bit! and if your interested in what one of the ranches POA horses might cost i can give you a contact. The only one i think they would sell thats the height you are wanting is Princess but she is sweet lol, im not sure though...


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> I've actually never heard that about Paints! (learn something new every day I guess haha!)  I actually own a registered Paint (solid buckskin) and she is the CALMEST horse I know, VERY very willing and extremely sweet and smart! Here's some pics of her...I wouldn't rule out ANY breed because there are always exceptions...but I'd say if I HAD to pick a breed, QH's are usually all of the above.


You own one? And you've owned and trained how many in your lifetime? 

Of course there are exceptions. Who cares? It's irrelevant. For the sake of the providing the best advice we can to the OP, we must talk in generalities.

And as I clearly stated in my first post to the OP...here, let me quote myself - *"I think breed has less to do with it, then quality of past training, experience and overall temperament."*




> (and most Paints have QH bloodlines which is why I was surprised about the above opinion of them)


Not any more. If there isn't a number of registered QH's in the first three generations, you're talking apples and oranges. 

Because of the need to specialize to excel in the various disciplines, the QH and Paint look nothing alike conformationally. In fact, within the QH breed itself, you will see a large variance in conformation.

The Paint and QH are no longer the same horse. It's like saying the Lusitano and the Andalusian are the same horse. Umm....no, they aren't.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Horse Dreamer said:


> She is broke to ride, Hoofprints. She's actually really awesome on the ground. We have 60 acres, but she stays pretty much on the south 5 where her little barn's at and all I have to do is call and she'll come running. She halters like a breeze and tacks up so easlily. The weather here has been horrible but yesterday it wasn't raining, so I went out called her up to groom her. I don't even have to tie her if the halters on she'll stand stock still. I brushed her down and picked out all four hooves!! Now for me that was a big deal, because I haven't been brave enough to do her back ones by myself before. The issue is that I don't so enough leadership and confidence and when she starts acting up (walking off when trying to mount, jerking head, turning around when she doesn't want to go somewhere) I let her have her way. We have started lessons but have only had a few riding lessons so far. Like I said, my kids seem more confident than me. I really go back and forth, I don't want to sell her I want to keep her and have her tuned up or retrained and the kids are getting thier horse fix with lessons, right. It's really tuff for me, because I do thoroughly enjoy her even without being able to ride her. *And the more questions I ask and the more I hear I think our problems stem more from my inexperience than her lack of willingness. *We just need more time.


That's awesome to hear!!  I think your comment in bold above is so true...I found the SAME thing as I was learning to train my mare. She is so willing, she just doesn't always know what I'm asking her to do, and it's my job to be clear to her all the time so that she knows. 

It sounds like you're well on your way to having a very well-trained and rideable girl! I think you'll be on her someday, the more time you spend with her now and the more you build each other's trust!


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Mercedes said:


> You own one? And you've owned and trained how many in your lifetime?
> 
> Of course there are exceptions. Who cares? It's irrelevant. For the sake of the providing the best advice we can to the OP, we must talk in generalities.
> 
> ...


WOW let's not overreact here!! ;-) I wasn't being sarcastic when I said I'd never heard that about Paints before, I was being honest. I really haven't...but I learned something new, about that generality. No offense to you and I wasn't trying to start an argument with you.


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

i love quarter horses, they are usually 14-15.3 hands (around here at least), and they are level headed, smart and bombproof.


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

oh and i recently got a horse for my barns new lesson program, his name is Dusty, small quarterhorse, hes 25, teddybear personality allround great horse, walk trot canter cross rails. and he was free.

id look for an older horse for your family


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> Not any more. If there isn't a number of registered QH's in the first three generations, you're talking apples and oranges.
> 
> *Because of the need to specialize to excel in the various disciplines, the QH and Paint look nothing alike conformationally*. In fact, within the QH breed itself, you will see a large variance in conformation.
> 
> The Paint and QH are no longer the same horse. It's like saying the Lusitano and the Andalusian are the same horse. Umm....no, they aren't.


 
In other threads I have agreed with you but you are totally wrong on this one. There is some variance in the different types of quarter horses depending on the use but paints and QH's compete in the exact same disciplines and often compete directly against each other in reining and cutting. In an earlier post on this thread there was posted world champion paints that have qh blood in them. Why don't you post a paint pedigree that doesn't have a qh in three generations? I have never seen one. The APHA doesn't recognize enough of a difference in the two breeds to prevent a qh from siring paint colts so they apperantly disagree with you also.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Mercedes said:


> Not any more. If there isn't a number of registered QH's in the first three generations, you're talking apples and oranges.
> 
> Because of the need to specialize to excel in the various disciplines, the QH and Paint look nothing alike conformationally. In fact, within the QH breed itself, you will see a large variance in conformation.
> 
> *The Paint and QH are no longer the same horse. It's like saying the Lusitano and the Andalusian are the same horse. Umm....no, they aren't*.


By the way, I was not trying to say they're not different breeds, I know that they are -- that would be why there are different registries  But my mare is registered as a Paint, and has all QH's on the dam's side (her mother was a registered QH), and my friend has a Paint who has many QH's in her recent lineage. 

So you're right, not ALL Paints have QH in their bloodlines, and I was not saying that at all...I just said that a LOT of them do, which is true for those I personally know who own Paints. Maybe not in your area so much, I don't know...just going by my own experience here, so sorry if I misspoke


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> In other threads I have agreed with you but you are totally wrong on this one. There is some variance in the different types of quarter horses depending on the use but paints and QH's compete in the exact same disciplines and often compete directly against each other in reining and cutting. In an earlier post on this thread there was posted world champion paints that have qh blood in them. Why don't you post a paint pedigree that doesn't have a qh in three generations? I have never seen one. The APHA doesn't recognize enough of a difference in the two breeds to prevent a qh from siring paint colts so they apperantly disagree with you also.


Thank you! ;-) Here, have a look at my mare's lineage...

Coosas Playgirl Paint

Check out all those QH's! (including Coosa and Impressive) ;-)


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## Maire995 (Jan 23, 2010)

I have gone through a lot of _difficult_ horses myself i have even has one who was in the middle of miscarying and i never even realised the owner just said she was out in the feild for a couple of months!
I wouldnt be to trustworthy when buying young childrens ponies! if you were looking for a pony to learn on i would suggest that an older one might be a little quieter something from 14-20! mares can sometiimes have very bad moodswings so i myself would prefer a gelding NEVER a stallion! and the quietest breeds i have come across are cobs and draught ponys! mayby and appolossa either! it depends look for nasty tendencies when your looking at ponies ,ears back , narky and unwilling woud be ones to start! goodluck and i hope you find the right one although no pony is ever going to be perfect but some can be close


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Thank you! ;-) Here, have a look at my mare's lineage...
> 
> Coosas Playgirl Paint
> 
> Check out all those QH's! (including Coosa and Impressive) ;-)


Twenty five out of thirty horses in the last generation listed are quarter horses and exactly half of the rest of the pedigree are qhs. Thank you for sharing that.


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

I have not read all the posts so sorry if I double up on something. 

I read Welsh mentioned and I think they are a fantastic breed if you don't mind a shorter horse. My first pony was a demon and a reason I will NEVER have a pony for my kids. I would of been much happier on a big ol' QH then any of the ponies my Mom showed me after her. My trainer found us an 8yr old Welsh cob/arab gelding I think when I was 7 (so I had about 5 years of riding/lessons). He was AMAZING. Patient, kind, forgiving, very gentle. He was an excellent "first horse". I would get another just like him for my own children in a heart beat if I ever found one.

I think temperament is the most important thing. My trainer bred arabs but they had such amazing calm and willing temperaments that I have never understood the stigma against Arabs I hear from other horse people. My children almost 3 and 5 both ride my TB gelding who is just turning 7. My son has been riding him since my horse was 3. I wouldn't put them on any TB but Aidan is very very calm and very cautious with children, my friends daughter who is 3 also rides her TB gelding who is 5 now.

I think it's important for you assess the horses temperament no matter what breed it is. Take your trainer or another knowledgeable horse person to point out the pro's and con's when looking at any horse. 

I'll wrap up this terribly long post by saying though you may find a perfect horse for you all to learn on take the chance to ride allot of different horses. Once you have more experience under your belt you will learn very important lessons by not riding the horse you aren't 100% comfortable with and that will throw you a curve ball


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

Bashkir Curlies, all the way  Look them up and you will find that they are the ultimate family horse that comes in a variety of sizes. Their docile temperments make them perfect for children that are on the younger side.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>> Not any more. If there isn't a number of registered QH's in the first three generations, you're talking apples and oranges. _

Actually, if the predominant ancestry farther back in the Paint's pedigree is AQHA, just breeding "Paint to Paint" for a few generations would not be enough by itself to make the resulting horse completely different than its predecessors. There would have to be conscious breeder selection away from the ancestor's type and conscious selection toward another type-- and I do not see that happeneing, overall, in the Paint breed.

_>>>> Because of the need to specialize to excel in the various disciplines, the QH and Paint look nothing alike conformationally. In fact, within the QH breed itself, you will see a large variance in conformation._

As has been said by myself and others in previous posts, there are variations within these breeds, yes, but Paints and QHs which are bred to excell in the same disciplines most often DO resemble one another in type, and are usually of similar bloodlines as well.

_>>>> The Paint and QH are no longer the same horse. _

Again I have not said that the paint and QH are ALL, breed-wide, "the same horse"-- individual lines do exist in each breed-- but the Paint breed as a whole DOES continue to be highly influenced by AQHA breeding. 

_>>>> It's like saying the Lusitano and the Andalusian are the same horse. Umm....no, they aren't. _

What you are completely missing in your comparison is that the Andalusian and the Lusitano have been seperate CLOSED BOOK breeds for many generations---for many generations the two have not and are now still not allowed to interbreed. 

The American Paint Horse Association still allows AQHA breeding. It has not been discontinued or even really slowed down. There also have been and continue to be horses with full registration in both AQHA and APHA. BOTH registries still allow TB breeding.

Did you look at the photos and pedigrees of current, winning Paint horses of several types that I posted in my last reply?

Do you realize that the APHA still allows breeding to AQHA and TB? 

Do you know that there are many breeders that keep both AQHA and APHA papers on any horses that are eligible for registration in both registries? So there are a notable number of Paint horses that not only have AQHA bloodlines-- they *ARE* AQHA registered themselves.

What experiences have you had with Paints and the APHA that have made you so adamant that Paints have been bred to a completely different type from QHs, and that as a breed they are a "tougher nut to crack" disposition-wise? Do you show at APHA breed shows? Do you subscribe to the Paint Horse Journal? Are you currently breeding and raising Paints that are competitive in events held by associations such as NSBA, NRHA, NCHA, and etc? If so, what part of the country/world are you in? What are the names and pedigrees of some of the Paints that you are breeding/showing/working with?


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

Thank you all! You have given my a lot to think on and consider. I think that our next purchase will be much more suitable.


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## Five Furlongs (Feb 7, 2010)

I didn't read any of the posts but I'm sure someone has mentioned the Quarter horse. They come in all sizes and are really layed back. A great first horse! Breeds not to buy? I'd say arabians or thoroughbreds definatly at the top of the list! There are some arabs and tbs out there that are great but because their cold blooded they have alot of energy and usually arn't the best beginner or first horse. Good Luck!!!


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## lauraleo (Aug 1, 2009)

Connemaras are very nice,easy to look after , are willing to do what their told =]


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

First and formost since this seems to have gotten off track with the Q/H Paint comparison, the OP needs to complete their training and learn the confidence and skill to be the herd leader or they will continue to buy and sell every horse they get. I don't care what breed or what age they are the same problems will arise with each horse no matter how old or trained they are. We have worked with so many great horses that for the lack of a proper leader in their owner develop bad habits. How many big trainers have said there are a lot of great horses with a lot of bad owners. 

I also cannot understand why you would get rid of this horse. If you cannot afford a trainer for this horse how can you afford another horse even if you sell?

I also can tell you I have sold a few of those problem horses we have brought around and countless times have turned down people who want to buy a young horse for their beginner. I personally won't sell a youngster to a beginning rider. The best choice is an older 15+ been there, done that horse that can be leased. Good luck in your search. Once you and your children have the confidence and skill developed there will be plenty of chance to look around for the perfect breed.


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## Horse Dreamer (Oct 24, 2009)

Macslady said:


> First and formost since this seems to have gotten off track with the Q/H Paint comparison, the OP needs to complete their training and learn the confidence and skill to be the herd leader or they will continue to buy and sell every horse they get. I don't care what breed or what age they are the same problems will arise with each horse no matter how old or trained they are. We have worked with so many great horses that for the lack of a proper leader in their owner develop bad habits. How many big trainers have said there are a lot of great horses with a lot of bad owners.
> 
> *I also cannot understand why you would get rid of this horse. If you cannot afford a trainer for this horse how can you afford another horse even if you sell?*
> 
> I also can tell you I have sold a few of those problem horses we have brought around and countless times have turned down people who want to buy a young horse for their beginner. I personally won't sell a youngster to a beginning rider. The best choice is an older 15+ been there, done that horse that can be leased. Good luck in your search. Once you and your children have the confidence and skill developed there will be plenty of chance to look around for the perfect breed.


 
I am answering the bolded question. 

We are selling Molly because we can't give her the instruction that she *deserves*. The money will be used for more lessons for us. We are not going to purchase another horse until we are more confident and knowledgable. Myself, my husband, and my trainer believe that we don't need to make another horse purchase until we can get on the horse and decide for ourselves if we're comfortable with it. 

As many of the posters and readers who have helped answer some of my quetions know, we bought this mare with the belief that she was beginner safe and kid broke and paid beginner money for her. Yes, I know we made the first beginner buyer mistake with buying on first visit, we've been over that. *Lesson* *WELL learned. *That is why I can't afford to send her to a trainer at this point. 

As much as myself and kids want a horse of our own, I agree that it isn't our time *yet*. I have learned a valuable lesson, and that is to *not* put the cart before the horse, literally. I also hope that this expreince will follow my kids in other directions as well. Knowledge and work, then reward. 

Please understand that I acknowledge that I (we) are not in anyway, form, or fashion experienced with horses, but we have a great love and desire to be included in their world. My goal is to learn as much as I can and aid my children (3 & eight) in their learning experience. The best way for me to do that is to ask questions and take in the opinions of those experienced in that area. I have learned a lot from you guys and our instructor and am still doing so. With so many views and opinions I am able to make better decisions for us. I understand that many adults my not be as open minded to others sharing their knowledge, but I do not have a know it all mentality. I welcome others instruction and opinions. Like I said, for me personally it helps aid me in the best direction for my family. This forum's members are who helped me decide to find a riding instructor and that is one of the best decisions I've made in our quest to get involved in the horse world. Horse lovers are some of the most passionate, dedicated people I have met. That is why I think this thread got a bit off track, but that's okay, becasue I have still learned a lot from each post. Thank you for sharing guys.


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## clark (Jan 16, 2010)

Hello,
I also agree that breed isn't as important as temperment. We have a haflinger, a paint and a tb. We enjoy all of them and they each are unique in their own way. I do believe having the right size horse is important. I am 4'10 and saddling our 16'2 tb can be a challenge not because he doesn't stand still just because of his sheer size. Ask yourself what you are looking for in a horse be it good ground manners, gentle, not bothered by young children and their wonderful exuberance. I am sure there are certain things that are must and certain things that you will be able to overlook or overcome. Happy horse hunting!


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## clark (Jan 16, 2010)

Sorry I didn't read the post all the way through.


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## welshies rule (Feb 7, 2010)

I have a welsh D now but spent a lot of time with a welsh A when I was younger might be worth thinking somthing along the welsh c lines but as said training and temprement should come high on priority list as the horse who gave me most of my experiance up to the age of 17 from the age of 2 was a piebald cob who stood 14.3hh! (the best horse in the world ever!)


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

Horse Dreamer said:


> I am answering the bolded question.
> 
> We are selling Molly because we can't give her the instruction that she *deserves*. The money will be used for more lessons for us. We are not going to purchase another horse until we are more confident and knowledgable. Myself, my husband, and my trainer believe that we don't need to make another horse purchase until we can get on the horse and decide for ourselves if we're comfortable with it.
> 
> ...


Good luck in your search. I am sure you will have the horse you want eventually, you are definitely moving in the right direction. It saddens me that someone sold you an animal with dishonesty. I see way to much of that nowadays.


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