# Can I use this saddle to break a horse?



## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I do not recommend using a bareback pad with stirrups. The pad can slip to one side or the other and, with your feet in stirrups, you can go with it and get hurt. There are some "bareback saddles" that have enough structure to stay put in the withers, but this one doesn't appear to be one if those. 

I will say that, as a person who rides with a stirrup less pad all the time, you can train a horse with a pad. I have once. I prefer to ride stirrup less and have years of practice. 

But the reason most people use a saddle is they get a more secure seat. And even though I prefer to ride on a pad, I still use a saddle occasionally for trail and overnight rides. 

What is your plan for the horse? Why are you buying a pad to train a horse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Freemare (Jun 2, 2012)

Its never good to learn how to ride or train a horse in bareback pad that has stirrups. The reason I say this, is because. A saddle has a tree that keeps your weight of his withers. A bare back pad normally does not. You can hurt your horses back because you using the stirrups. It's best to just to buy a normal saddle and lean how to ride bare back without anything at all.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

If youre gonna ride bareback- ride bareback! A bareback pad is a pain anyway- they always spin- its a death trap when it has stirrups on it- you cant even mount with them- and they slide backwards when youre ridin. 

Ive broke horses bareback many times- if youre gonna do it- dont worry about a little dirt and hair on your jeans-- youll have a lot more than that to worry about.. like your face on the ground for starters.. lol. I dont mean for that to be rude- just the truth, lol. 


oh and dont worry about the horses back with out a saddle- he aint gonna know the difference anyway- hell want you off no matter what you break em in. ;-)


.


----------



## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

In my opinion if it has stirrups you're not riding bareback. So if you want stirrups just go and ride with a saddle. If you want a minimal amount of saddle, get a racing or exercising saddle. 

Every horse I have broke I put the first 5 or 6 rides on bareback. They have been saddled and cinched, but I prefer to get on for the first time bareback. Then they don't have to deal with both the cinch and someone on their back (two new things) at the same time. For me, I prefer it for the fact that there is nothing to get caught on if the horse gets jumpy and dumps me. Plus I can feel a lot more of the horse's attitude with out the saddle in the way. 

If you want to ride bareback, ride bareback. I'd never touch a bareback pad with stirrups! An accident waiting to happen.


----------



## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I would not do it.
That's $200 you could put towards a nice used saddle.


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

In addition, the horse would not be "saddle broke."


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Undante said:


> Is it possible to break a horse with this saddle? Or would it be best to start with something more traditional? I plan on riding bareback more often than not.
> 
> Buy Mustang Soft Ride Bareback Pads


I feel like if you have to ask this question, you shouldn't be breaking horses. 

JMO


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

toto said:


> oh and dont worry about the horses back with out a saddle- he aint gonna know the difference anyway- hell want you off no matter what you break em in. ;-)
> 
> 
> .


Why is he going to want you off no matter what? I don't understand that thought, surely the whole point about starting a horse is that he doesn't want you off. If he does, you have seriously skipped some important steps in his training.

I'm not sure about the whole back thing, I'm more convinced by the argument that a well fitting saddle makes carrying a rider a more comfortable experience for a horse. However there are a lot of horribly fitted saddles out there, and maybe bareback is more comfortable than a bad fit.

When it comes to it, ride and start him in whatever you are comfortable, and more importantly secure with, even if he isn't trying to get you off a novice horse needs a secure and steady rider. 

BUT A BIG FAT NO to a bareback pad with stirrups, simply dangerous.


----------



## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Bareback pads with stirrups are dangerous, when you're breaking - you need something secure.
Personally, I prefer a close contact English saddle to break in, no bells and whistles, something really simple in case I need to get out of it.

I'm kind of a weirdo though, most people like to break western. I feel really claustrophobic in a Western saddle, like I'm stuck in it.


----------



## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

Palogal, I see where you are coming from being claustrophobic in a western saddle. I rode for the first time in an english saddle the other day and loved it! So much room to move! 
I learned to ride bareback and bought my first saddle. It was western, but I prefer an aussie saddle to it, and english to aussie. 

That's probably the reason I always break my horses bareback. I don't like the fact that the western saddle holds me in and doesn't let me bail without getting caught. 

toto, I've never had a horse try very hard to get me off when I put the first ride on. That is all taken care of in ground work before I even dream of getting on. 

Golden Horse, sometimes I am more balanced riding bareback than with a saddle. I worked really hard on being able to perfect all gaits bareback. I still have a bit of a problem with a huge trot, but all the other gaits are good. I feel that a saddle doesn't provide me with the feel that I like when breaking. It's like keep your hand on a new horse's shoulder when rubbing them over for the first time. You can feel the tense up before they ever lift their leg or jump away. 

I can take a couple crow hops bareback no problem. Anything harder I come off, but that is the same in a saddle too. I don't ride bucking very well.


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

As the other posters have said - bareback pad with stirrups is not a safe way to go. When I was young, we used to always start the ponies bareback and, now that I think of it, we rode them virtually bareback from then on - my parents were OK with that but not using a saddle as they felt it too dangerous. Now, this may be a time for a good segue into helmets - they're not a bad thing to have on one's head for at least the first few rides. Good luck.


----------



## palogal (May 30, 2008)

The only issue you have with breaking bareback is the horse isn't saddle broke. Most riders ride with a saddle. So..when you break for someone else you need to break with a saddle most of the time.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Agree with previous posters. If you're limber enough to do it, there's a lot to be said for bellying over and sitting on them for the first time bareback, but you do have to get them accustomed to the saddle, so might as well incorporate that into your program. 

My favorite saddles to use for breakers were my exercise saddle with a 1/2 tree - light, but up off the withers, lots of flexibility or an old ratty english close contact. I didn't want to use my best saddle or a show saddle, and I usually kept something around just to saddle a baby for the first time so if they decided to try and rub the thing off on the walls of the stall and round pen, no real damage was done. 

I would not invest $$$ in a glorified bareback pad.


----------



## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

I train the horse for the saddle, then put the first 5 or 6 rides on bareback. Introducing the two (cinch and weight on their back) separately, then I combine them. 
I'll get a horse used to saddle pads, surcingle, saddle, driving over their shoulder, etc. I pony them with the saddle on, shake them around with the saddle, get on a fence or mounting block and lean over them. I'll lay over them and have them move their feet. 
I'll put a walk and trot on bareback, and sometimes I'll add a canter bareback as well. Depends on how much I trust the horse. 
After a few rides like this, I'll saddle up and teach them mounting and dismounting, both sides. Then I get on with the saddle and continue with the walk, trot, canter, and add the gallop after a few rides. 
I don't like it when a horse doesn't know how to gallop with a rider. I won't gallop all the time, obliviously, but I want a horse to know how to carry me at that gait in case I ever do want/need to gallop. 

I also have a bit of thing for the old cowboy method of 'you're stealing a ride until you canter'. I don't canter the first few times on a horse, but I don't consider them green broke or 'ridden' until I can put a comfortable canter on them.


----------



## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

To the OP, read this thread. There were some really good pre-breaking things in it.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/training-yearlings-198473/


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> Why is he going to want you off no matter what? I don't understand that thought, surely the whole point about starting a horse is that he doesn't want you off. If he does, you have seriously skipped some important steps in his training.
> 
> I'm not sure about the whole back thing, I'm more convinced by the argument that a well fitting saddle makes carrying a rider a more comfortable experience for a horse. However there are a lot of horribly fitted saddles out there, and maybe bareback is more comfortable than a bad fit.
> 
> ...


Lol, you mean to tell me if i make my colt my buddy hell just neal down on his front legs and say 'hop on'? Thats a new one but ill try it. 

I respect 'natural' horsemanship- im all about mentally manipulating an animal thats 10xs my weight than physically- i can 'cowboy' a horse with the best of em too and i will if i have too but horses are unpredictable-- you think hes your best friend and he aint gonna throw you off because he likes you? Lol. Youve never been on a 'calm horse' whos your buddy when you feed and brush him- that explodes like a lunatic when you try to get on his back-- youre a complete different person on that horses back then you was on the ground-- thats what i mean.. no flaws in training- the commands you give on the ground are much different when your on the horses back and not every horse is calm when you go to break em is all. Some definitely are calm and cool as a cucumber --not every horse is gonna be that way though- thats a big mistake to think that way.


----------



## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

If a horse is "exploding" while you're giving him his first rides, you have some very big holes in your training. Nothing "buddy" about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

toto said:


> Lol, you mean to tell me if i make my colt my buddy hell just neal down on his front legs and say 'hop on'? Thats a new one but ill try it.


No I do not mean to tell you that at all, I'm not big into being best buddies with my horse.

All I'm saying is that I prepare my youngsters properly, so having a rider on does not provoke a "must get you off reaction" Of course it can happen, but it is not the norm, if they have a buck in them I prefer that we have sorted that one out at the working in a saddle stage, I don't save it for when I'm riding.

I'm not big into natural horsemanship, whatever that is, I am big into making it easy for a horse to do the right thing, and setting them up to succeed instead of fail.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Yup, agree with GG. My idea of a successful breaker was one that never bucked or had a major resistance; that meant I had prepared the horse correctly and built up difficulty appropriately. And there are no cookies or carrot sticks in my method; and I frequently broke babies for the track and took them from unhandled to galloping a mile in ~60 - 90 days, so not exactly glacier slow, kid gloves treatment either. 

Major resistance - bucking, rearing, refusing to go forward, etc., are ALL signs that there's a hole in the training - the horse is afraid because something hurts or because he doesn't understand what's being asked. 

I'm not saying I've never had a breaker show a major resistance, but that when I did, once I rode through it, I sat down, thought thru the problem, figured out where the hole was and started over from that point. The more experience I got with breakers, the fewer episodes of resistance I had.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

maura said:


> *I'm not saying I've never had a breaker show a major resistance*, but that when I did, once I rode through it, I sat down, thought thru the problem, figured out where the hole was and started over from that point. The more experience I got with breakers, the fewer episodes of resistance I had.


thats exactly what you just said, lol. Very contradicting.. :hide: 

i agree though- not every horse will let you get on its back with out 'resistance'- just because a few horses you broke did dont mean they all will. :wink:

Thats the point in breakin a colt-- fixin what the issue is with you on their back.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

A few horses? I've lost count, but the number of horses I've broken is in the range of 50 - 60.

About 30+ for race training and the track and the rest as hunters and jumpers. 

How many have you started? Your opinions are contrarary to those of most of the horseman that I respect and admire, so I'm curious as to what your actual experience is. 

And there's no contradiction there - I didn't, and don't, ride and train defensively. I don't get on a horse expecting it to buck, I ride and train to prevent the buck. Big difference. 

If your *expectation* the first time you get on a horse is that it's going to want you off it's back, well, then, your methods and experience are very, very, different than mine.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

maura said:


> A few horses? I've lost count, but the number of horses I've broken is in the range of 50 - 60.
> 
> About 30+ for race training and the track and the rest as hunters and jumpers.
> 
> ...



Oh im sorry- i didnt mean to offend.

^thats how i felt till i read the second line and realized you were on an ego trip.. i have no desire to get into a ****in match- sorry. 

No one anticipates the buck- they also dont think its impossible because theyve ground trained.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

maura said:


> How many have you started? Your opinions are contrarary to those of most of the horseman that I respect and admire, so I'm curious as to what your actual experience is.


Me to



maura said:


> And there's no contradiction there - I didn't, and don't, ride and train defensively.* I don't get on a horse expecting it to buck, I ride and train to prevent the buck*. Big difference.


:thumbsup: gets my vote


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

This may just be me, but I don't hold much to the idea of putting the first rides on a horse bareback.

Maybe it's just because of the caliber of horse I'm used to, but I want something that I can grab ahold of to keep myself on in the event that they suddenly decide they've had enough (like other's said, it's not _common_ for one to just blow up for no reason...but it _does_ happen and I like to be as prepared as possible) or if they see the boogeyman coming to eat them.

IMHO, the more often you fall off of a young horse, the more likely they are to learn how to get you off.

If you want stirrups, use a saddle with a tree rigid enough to keep it in place no matter what happens. If you want to ride "bareback", then either ditch the idea of a pad altogether or get something simple that will just keep the dirt off your butt...but nothing with stirrups. Stirrups without a rigid tree are just a dragging waiting to happen.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I'll be the first to admit I am not very good at training horses. I have only had one youngster that I raised from birth and got ready to saddle break. I put crap (I mean stuff) on his back since he was a foal. Put things around his girth to simulate a cinch, threw saddle blankets on him as a foal, tarps, etc. 

I was the very first person to sit on him and I did it several times in the round pen, bareback. No buck, not even a funny look. I had been doing so much with him since he was a baby that he didn't think it strange at all when I progressed to sitting on him.

Now I did send him off for a couple months of saddle training because I knew I didn't have the experience to ride him out on the trails or teach him to respond properly to the bit, etc. The trainer said the first time he got on him he walked over to the edge of the pen and started rubbing his butt on the fence. :lol: So I think I had him pretty well prepared.

But to *expect* a horse to buck the first time you get on, well, it's sounds like you didn't properly prepare him.


----------



## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

smrobs said:


> This may just be me, but I don't hold much to the idea of putting the first rides on a horse bareback.
> 
> Maybe it's just because of the caliber of horse I'm used to, but I want something that I can grab ahold of to keep myself on in the event that they suddenly decide they've had enough (like other's said, it's not _common_ for one to just blow up for no reason...but it _does_ happen and I like to be as prepared as possible) or if they see the boogeyman coming to eat them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Sorry smrobs. I meant to reply to parts of your post. I'm on smart phone, which is not so smart apparently!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

toto, 

No ego trip, just fact. There's a handful of people on this board who know me in real life, know my resume, know the horses I've trained, what I've accomplished and what my qualifications are. 

I've been following your posts on this board for some time, and what I've noticed is that you talk a lot of smack, but are pretty short on actual, useful advice and very short on resume. 

Some cowboys refer to this as the "All hat, no cattle" syndrome. 

So my very sincere question to you is - Are you for real? Or are you just a troll? 

Are you here on Horse Forum to help novice horsepeople? Or are you here to talk a lot of trash, talk down people who actually GIVE advice and in general stir the pot?


----------



## palogal (May 30, 2008)

anyone who trains, does so in such a way that the horse does not learn bucking is an acceptable behavior. I've broke several young horses that never bucked under saddle. HOWEVER. Say the you-know-what hits the fan and the horse spooks or whatever and to add insult to injury a human body falls off of it. It's traumatic for a horse to lose it's rider especially one that doesn't know that sometimes humans fly.
For that reason, I don't break bareback. Just in case something goes south, I stand a better chance of staying on or at least landing a decent dismount if I have stirrups.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

toto said:


> Thats the point in breakin a colt-- fixin what the issue is with you on their back.


I prefer to fix issues, or rather prevent issues by step by step training, so by the time I climb on there isn't a lot of fixing left to do.

Of course you can never ever fix everything, but I sure don't expect to get bucked off. I would of thought anyone with a lick of horse sense or common sense, would follow the same thought as Maura

*I don't get on a horse expecting it to buck, I ride and train to prevent the buck*


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Toto, you have done it now. You have singled out one of the true trainers on this forum. In doing so, you have shown your inability to know quality advice when you see it. 
Time to back down, a bit.

As for me, I RARELY get a buck the first time I back a horse. They are totally ready for that step by the time I get on them.


----------



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I do not think bareback is a very good way to start colts. When I was a kid -- about 13 to 15 years old, I started several horses bareback. Then, as I observed really good horsemen that rode very well-trained horses, I also saw that they all started horses in a saddle. I developed my own methods and they worked very well. I found that it was necessary to get any 'broke' horse trained to accept a saddle and tight girth, so I taught myself to start them that way from the beginning and found it worked much better. I found I could train and 'finish' a horse that anyone could ride when I started them in a saddle. 

I also do not think that any person expecting a 'blow-up' or expecting a horse to buck has very good starting methods. From the mid 60s through the mid 80s, I started 50 head per year or more. I rode some for 30 days and others for 60 to 90 days, but never started fewer than 50 head per year. They ranged in age from 2 year (not many this young) up to 8 or 9 years old. Many came in not halter broke and most were not even a little bit gentle.

Each year I had 1 or 2 (maybe 3 on a bad year) that would buck -- at all. Most had already been 'tried' by someone before me. More were apt to buck on the 3rd or 4th ride than on the first ride. Like Maura, I figured out that I had skipped over a step or moved on too fast and the horse got scared. I have found that the first time a horse tried to buck, it was because they were scared or mad. Once they have bucked (particularly if they bucked someone off), then some will try it every time after that until you do something to break the cycle.

I found it very foolish and counter-productive to saddle a horse and turn it loose in a pen to buck with the saddle on. While some horses 'get it out of their systems', there are others that just call it practice and get really good at it. I find nothing positive ever comes out of letting a horse buck.

I want a horse to be 'responsive'. That means I will take the time to TEACH it what I want it to learn so it can respond positively to everything new that I do with it. Any time a horse is 'reactive', the so called trainer is not in control of the situation. ALL of the time that a horse spends 'reacting' to what you are doing or trying to do, is wasted time and energy and only sets the training process back.

We train horses that so that inexperienced riders can trust and enjoy them. This means they will set sometimes for months at a time without being ridden. We have turned out green-broke horses for 5 or 6 years, brought them in, saddled them up and let them stand tied for several hours. Bring them back in the next day, saddle them up and ride them off just like they had been ridden that whole time. 

We frequently take horses out in big pastures or out in rough country on their 4th or 5th ride. We also do not ride them with another horse. We take them out by themselves. It is rare that one gets scared to refuses to go where we point its head. When we properly prepare it for what we are going to ask, we just do not have any problems.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I am sitting here with my jaw on the ground. I read mauras posts and soak every letter of them in hoping to be half the trainer she is. I can't imagine challenging her wisdom and knowledge.

I am only a trainer in training and even I can see the obvious holes and flaws in your posts toto :shock: And some of your "advice" is really scary and dangerous at that. 

On that note I am going to go sit in the corner and mind my own business again.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Allison Finch said:


> Toto, you have done it now. You have singled out one of the true trainers on this forum. In doing so, you have shown your inability to know quality advice when you see it.
> Time to back down, a bit.
> 
> As for me, I RARELY get a buck the first time I back a horse. They are totally ready for that step by the time I get on them.



Wait.. ive done what now? I dont recall 'challenging' anyone.. i dont even feel like ive said anything off putting and i wasnt even rude at all.. was i? 

Yall are all like :evil: im just sittin here like :shock: what the heck is goin on? Why does everyone think ive 'challenged' them? I dont go around like 'hey im gonna mess with you' why does everyone think that way? Its really starting to frusterate me a little.. :-x


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

:twisted:


NBEventer said:


> I am sitting here with my jaw on the ground. I read mauras posts and soak every letter of them in hoping to be half the trainer she is. I can't imagine challenging her wisdom and knowledge.
> 
> I am only a trainer in training and even I can see the obvious holes and flaws in your posts toto :shock: And some of your "advice" is really scary and dangerous at that.
> 
> On that note I am going to go sit in the corner and mind my own business again.


What you talkin bout willis? 

I said horses are un predictable and not all are that calm-- the person went on an ego trip because i said 'a few' instead of a thousand? What- is- goin- on- on?! They even said the same exaxt thing i said! 

this reminds me of a movie.. a crazy one.. lol. So weird..


----------



## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Toto - I wonder if you even re-read any of the stuff you write or if you write the crap you do just to stir things up.

I haven't started many horses, but I have started a few. Only one bucked the first time on his back and I immediately knew what *I* did wrong. If you do everything right most won't "want you off no matter what you break em in" because they will be well prepared for that next step.

As to bareback pads - no to any with stirrups like others have said and don't bother with cheap ones as they slide. However a well made suede one will stay in place and help you stick. I have a great one and love it. However, not sure about starting a horse in it.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> I prefer to fix issues, or rather prevent issues by step by step training, so by the time I climb on there isn't a lot of fixing left to do.
> 
> Of course you can never ever fix everything, but I sure don't expect to get bucked off. I would of thought anyone with a lick of horse sense or common sense, would follow the same thought as Maura
> 
> *I don't get on a horse expecting it to buck, I ride and train to prevent the buck*



Thats exactly what i just said- you just quoted it- see youre doin it again, lol. 

i can fix the issue the horse is havin on their back.. some do buck- some do go full on bb style- it happens.. i dont train horses that people have brought to me because theyre sweet little angels- im fixing the problems every second im with the horse.

your horse learns what you teach it-- if youre sloppy your horse will be too- you can not fix everything and have a poorly trained horse- or you can put some effort and pride into what you do and train em right.. i cant stand when someone says somethin like 'this horse will never be rideable' etcetera etcetra.. he will- just wont be by you.. period.


I know i dont know these people in real life but youll drop the ego trips if you met me for five seconds- i promise yall that, lol. 
I dont understand how people can be so judgmental -yall dont do anything but say im wrong- yet say exactly what i said re worded, lol. I dont get it.. am i not up to par with every one here enough to say things on here?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No toto you just like to poke things with a stick to get a reaction. That's clear from reading your posts through out this forum. Are you just dense or are you being willingly ignorant that you think no one will notice or call you out on it?

OP I don't have any advice for you other than a majority of what others have posted is really, really good advice.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> No toto you just like to poke things with a stick to get a reaction. That's clear from reading your posts through out this forum. Are you just dense or are you being willingly ignorant that you think no one will notice or call you out on it?
> 
> .


I truly hope that it isn't a density issue, I would rather it be a trollish issue.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

NdAppy said:


> No toto you just like to poke things with a stick to get a reaction. That's clear from reading your posts through out this forum. Are you just dense or are you being willingly ignorant that you think no one will notice or call you out on it?
> 
> OP I don't have any advice for you other than a majority of what others have posted is really, really good advice.



I really dont 'poke things with a stick' i feel like- if someone wants advise they should have multiple answers- we should be able to bounce ideas off each other etcetra- guess yall dont know me enough? I dont know. I just know thats not true.

I dont insult people either- i will say im better than that.. i think yall kinda want me to say somethin insulting? Im not 'calling' anyone on anything.. what did i 'call' this person on? I dont understand why this has gone in this direction? Because i dont have the same amount of time on here? Really? Its like a fraternity and i have to go through hazing.. i hope it ends soon.. or maybe im just stupid- right? 

My ego isnt that big! I dont go around 'pickin' on people.. i mistakenly (had no idea the poster would throw a fit over it) said that person trained 'a few' horses i didnt mean what they thought- thats called an ego trip!!! If someone asked me how many horses ive trained id said the same! A few.. no- i havent trained only five.. i think im older than the number of horses the vast majority of yall have trained.. no- i will not reveille my age- a classy woman never reveals their true age.. sorry.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> I truly hope that it isn't a density issue, I would rather it be a trollish issue.


I'm thinking this is one of those "if the shoe fits, wear it!" type deals... and it is sure a trollish looking shoe to me! :lol:


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

NdAppy said:


> I'm thinking this is one of those "if the shoe fits, wear it!" type deals... and it is sure a trollish looking shoe to me! :lol:





lol youre really rude and i find your post trashy-- my honest opinion..


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

> I seriously googled it so you can't 'call me' on it- trolls don't wear shoes.. there barefooted- I've still got my boots on.. :???:


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Well I googled troll shoes and got










I'm not sure that google is a reliable source of info for trolls, but I guess it is how you get all your info, I have seen no evidence that you actually know first hand about anything you post on, rather to the contrary.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

NdAppy said:


> I'm thinking this is one of those "if the shoe fits, wear it!" type deals... and it is sure a trollish looking shoe to me! :lol:





Golden Horse said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Well I googled troll shoes and got
> 
> ...



Lol those cracked me up!! I was all like 'troll shoes'? Woah! I had to see this! 

Is google a sorce of info for trolls? You seem to know it as fact.. i kinda believe you- cant lie.. but how would you know that if you aint a troll yourself? Or is that just an assumption? 

Youre really amusing when im drankin cold burr! Wont lie.. i think ill join that forum you messaged me.. i think you secretly like me but are scared to admit it.. its fine- i like you too.. if you want factual information feel free to personal message me! Ill answer any question- drunk tongue is an honest one! ;-)


I want a pair of these..


----------



## Crossescowgirl (Apr 29, 2013)

I would definatly not break a horse in this saddle, its not stable and actually its barley riding bareback at all you might as well put a actual saddle on
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

toto said:


> Lol those cracked me up!! I was all like 'troll shoes'? Woah! I had to see this!
> 
> Is google a sorce of info for trolls? You seem to know it as fact.. i kinda believe you- cant lie.. but how would you know that if you aint a troll yourself? Or is that just an assumption?
> 
> Youre really amusing when im drankin cold burr! Wont lie.. i think ill join that forum you messaged me.. i think you secretly like me but are scared to admit it.. its fine- i like you too.. if you want factual information feel free to personal message me! Ill answer any question- drunk tongue is an honest one! ;-)


Sadly your reading comprehension is as lacking as your grammar and spelling skills.


----------



## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Seriously...another thread taken down to this...


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

NdAppy said:


> I'm thinking this is one of those "if the shoe fits, wear it!" type deals... and it is sure a trollish looking shoe to me! :lol:





Golden Horse said:


> Sadly your reading comprehension is as lacking as your grammar and spelling skills.



lol youre funny!  i bet you train so many horses! 

i still wanna know if you had that horse tested for insulin resistance.. the one with the lump on his withers. I could just ask in your thread but im lazy see.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for asking, but he has no lump, anywhere, he has nothing that says IR about him at all.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Toto, I didn't post any insults, I posted a small excerpt of my legitimate credentials, but I haven't received a credible response. However, people who post other things that further the thread derailment and pot stirring do receive a response. 

Seems to lend more credence to the theory that you are more of a troll than a legitimate horseman theory. 

Please post your resume, credentials, experience, references, whatever you've got, for breaking horses or teaching novice riders.

My first post in this wildly hijacked thread was to give my opinion on the advisability of using a bareback pad to break a youngster. I gave my opinion, pretty clearly identified as such. 

You chose to attack previous posters, offer no new information or insight of your own on the subject and derail the thread. 

Toto, could you please give your *reasons* and your experience for your initial response to the actual question posted in this thread? Perhaps starting from that point and going forward will be enlightening. 

Mods, please feel free to move this discussion elsewhere, and leave the original discussion of appropriate saddles to use when breaking youngsters intact. 

Thank you!


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

maura said:


> Toto, I didn't post any insults, I posted a small excerpt of my legitimate credentials, but I haven't received a credible response. However, people who post other things that further the thread derailment and pot stirring do receive a response.
> 
> Seems to lend more credence to the theory that you are more of a troll than a legitimate horseman theory.
> 
> ...


I didnt post a response to your egotistical rant so im a troll? Ive been breakin horses my whole life- this is nothin new to me- youre threatened by me and its fine- im not upset at all. Im guessin im many years older than you (based on your ego) and ill still break a colt. 


Wow im a troll? Ive been around horses for longer than most people have been riding yet you question me because you dont know who i am on a horse forum and now im a troll? Please do me a big favor and let your ego go! 


Thats a bit egotistical- what exactly are your credentials? How many wgc s have you trained? How much money has the horses youve trained won? 

Whats my opinions? 









toto said:


> If youre gonna ride bareback- ride bareback! A bareback pad is a pain anyway- they always spin- its a death trap when it has stirrups on it- you cant even mount with them- and they slide backwards when youre ridin.
> 
> Ive broke horses bareback many times- if youre gonna do it- dont worry about a little dirt and hair on your jeans-- youll have a lot more than that to worry about.. like your face on the ground for starters.. lol. I dont mean for that to be rude- just the truth, lol.
> 
> ...




since when did you hear your horse say 'get on my back and lets go for a ride, ill tote you all over'? Lol. Untill then- ill assume he dont want you on his back. ;-) you can be my budy but i dont wanna tote you on my back all day either! 


If you wanna ride bareback- ride bareback.. meaning- the pad is not worth the time you spend to cinch it up- its dangerous- and can get the OP hurt badly! The stirrups are a death trap- meaning the pad rolls when you mount and could trap your foot inside the plastic stirrup and you can be dragged (yes ive had it happen to me personally) or your horse can jump sidewayse and your feet will be stuck in the stirrups when the pad rolls around on you (yes had it happen to me personally) 

Or instead of movin the convo- you could just PM me like an adult and we can leave this thread alone.. that goes for you too golden- and whomever else feels the need to attack me on the threads..


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> Thanks for asking, but he has no lump, anywhere, he has nothing that says IR about him at all.


Oh you had him tested? Im sorry- i didnt know.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Toto, 

I am not attacking you, I am trying to get clarity on exactly who you are and what your area of expertise is. I did say that you seemed to be all hat and no cattle, and in response, you've shown me a lot more hat. I also challenged you to present some of your resume and credentials and in response I got....more hat. 

This was a thread about whether or not it was a good idea to use a bareback pad on a breaker. A lot of people weighed in on that. 

The first ego to show up was yours, with this post - 



> If you're going to ride bareback- ride bareback! A bareback pad is a pain anyway- they always spin- its a death trap when it has stirrups on it- you can't even mount with them- and they slide backwards when you're ridin.
> 
> I've broke horses bareback many times- if you're going to do it- don't worry about a little dirt and hair on your jeans-- youll have a lot more than that to worry about.. like your face on the ground for starters.. lol. I don't mean for that to be rude- just the truth, lol. :razz:
> 
> ...


I gave you a rough estimate of how many horses I've started and asked you a direct question as to how many you've started. Still waiting on an answer. 

I have posted competition photos of myself all over this forum, one of them is my avatar. 

I notice you have no photos or personal information attached to your profile. 

Odd for someone who's representing themselves as a professional horseperson. 

So yes, I am calling you a troll and a pot stirrer. 

I've gone through as many of your previous posts as I can stand and I've found a lot where you've attacked other people, a lot where you've been random and bizarre, but not a single one where you've offered actual, helpful, experienced based advice. 

That's why I am calling you a troll. 

You're either here to learn, or here to educate. Most of us are some combination of the two. I offer advice on a very limited area of knowledge, for everything else, I'm here to learn. 

If you're here to mock, poke fun and stir up trouble, you're a troll. 

If you're here to learn, great. If you're here to educate, great! As soon as we figure out what you're able to educate folks about, we'll be off to a fine start. 

If you're here to to mock, poke fun and stir up trouble, uuuummmmm, not so great.


----------



## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

toto said:


> since when did you hear your horse say 'get on my back and lets go for a ride, ill tote you all over'? Lol. Untill then- ill assume he dont want you on his back. ;-) you can be my budy but i dont wanna tote you on my back all day either!


My guys aren't EXCITED about me getting on their backs (are many people truly _excited _to work?), but they sure as heck know that when it's time to work there's no pussyfooting around. From starting them on day one- no buck. I don't assume they are going to, but I try to be mentally prepared should something happen. I'm a strong believer on animals picking up on what emotions humans project- had I expected the worst, I'd have probably gotten it. As animals, they deserve more than that.

I think the point people are trying to make here is that by doing a lot of preparation on the ground, there shouldn't be as many surprises when the real under saddle work starts.Will surprises happen? Sure, absolutely, they are unpredictable animals. Can _some_ of them be avoided by doing a lot of preparation? Yes. Does that mean we think our horses think us riding them is all rainbows and butterflies and happy and fuzzy? HECK no! But, giving them respect can get us respect in return. I don't like the worst to be assumed about me, so I treat my animals the same way


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

toto said:


> Oh you had him tested? Im sorry- i didnt know.



There is an awful lot you don't know, and that is sadly evident in most of your posts, and your attacking of Maura is just beyond a joke.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

maura said:


> Toto,
> 
> I am not attacking you, I am trying to get clarity on exactly who you are and what your area of expertise is. I did say that you seemed to be all hat and no cattle, and in response, you've shown me a lot more hat. I also challenged you to present some of your resume and credentials and in response I got....more hat.
> 
> ...


what business of yours is it? You say i 'called you out' i am now- what wgc horses have you trained and how much money have they earned in their show career? Who are you? Whats your expertise? Who do you seriously think you are? Lol. 


I stated factal information that ive learned from my own experience breakin horses- my livelihood - the way i make the money to pay my bills. Thats havin an ego? :think:

Sweetheart- im many years older than you- i grew up horseless.. if i wanted to ride i had to break a horse to ride or ride the 'greenbroke' horse- i would get those horses ridin good and theyd be sold- thats what i done as a child till i was old enough to realize people would pay me cash to do this- i couldnt give you a number off the top of my head- i can say its over 60 by far.. i think ive trained 60 to ride by the age of 17 honest as it gets! i literally have a tote fulla rgc red white blue ribbons from my childhood in halter.


I do not post photos of myself on this forum because of the lack of respect ive been getting so far- why post pictures for people to judge me? I dont want you to like me because of the awards and achievements ivd earned- i want you to respect me because you like the things i say- not for my pictures! I will never post pictures on this site of me personally. Sorry. You can bash me on the internet all you want but you will not use my personal life to make fun of.



I attack others? I am literally having to defend myself- ill post the thread where posters said i was rude when i was not and stayed calm cool and collected as others acted like school children- a few other posters also stepped in on that thread and made clear i wasnt rude at all, lol. Sad really.



If i question somethin- im learning new information- i am very opinionated - but if you drop the ego and bad attitude youll see i do ask many many questions myself.



If i was here to start trouble i would have been banned a long time ago- i am here to educate and learn-- soon as people like you drop the ego im good.. im good now! I dont care if you dont agree with me- its an opinion- dont argue me state yours too! Thats how forums work! Seems like the majority of what i do on this forum is get insulted- its gettin old. Yes i can go to my other regular forums coth hgs etcetra but i want to earn my respect here too- why is that so hard? Ive not said one thing 'dangerous' it seriously disgust me that someone said that about me- why? its gettin stupid! Im over the abuse- its not worth it here!


Seriously- i have to suck up to people that know less than i do to gain respect here? I dont think so (not sayin you ) but many others- say i wanted reinin advise- i want it from the million dollar futurity winner not the newbie that hasent even ridden a pattern in a non pro yet.. does that not make sense?


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

And im sorry if i misspelled a lot of words but i been loadin hay on wagons all day and my fingers are sore- bloody- and have splinters under my nailbeds and dont feel like correctin anything right now!


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I haven't read all the posts, but I agree w those I have read - no, I would not use this bareback pad. I wouldn't use one for anything, really. Jeans stick to hair well, and they can't "slide" to one side. If he doesn't have a comfy back, invest in a saddle.

I don't see how the saddle pictured would benefit your ultimate stated goal to ride bareback any better than starting him/her using a light saddle. The only significant difference would be in the actual saddling effort.


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> There is an awful lot you don't know, and that is sadly evident in most of your posts, and your attacking of Maura is just beyond a joke.


I didnt 'attack' anyone. She got all egotistical when i said 'a few' horses refering to the horses she trained- i had no idea it was offensive - honest to god! 

I think its silly that you keep sayin random things to stir the pot then say its me- no.. its you! Better watch out or ill 'call' you too! 

Whats your credentials? How many wgc horses have you trained- owned- or shown? Whats their net worth? How much have they earned in their career? /life time earnings? What discipline? How many horses have you trained? why did you train them? How did you train them? Explain your training methods..


----------



## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Ok I'm throwing it out there, what is a "wgc" horse...? Can someone please explain that to me?


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

tbcrazy said:


> Ok I'm throwing it out there, what is a "wgc" horse...? Can someone please explain that to me?



World grand champ :thumbsup:


----------



## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Ha, thank you. Well, none of mine fall into that category! I suppose I'm more interested in work ethic and usability over show titles. I want a good minded, honest, hard working animal. Not that show horses can't have those qualities- but in my mind almost anyone who trains a horse to have those qualities is probably a good trainer. A good horse is a good horse- regardless of breed, money earned, and show titles. understandably though, we all have different ways of getting there!


----------



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

tbcrazy said:


> Ha, thank you. Well, none of mine fall into that category! I suppose I'm more interested in work ethic and usability over show titles. I want a good minded, honest, hard working animal. Not that show horses can't have those qualities- but in my mind almost anyone who trains a horse to have those qualities is probably a good trainer. A good horse is a good horse- regardless of breed, money earned, and show titles. understandably though, we all have different ways of getting there!


^YES!! :clap:

And for the record (just my simple opinion) id rather trail ride a grade horse then show a big name registered million dollar earning sire any day! :hide:


----------



## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

toto said:


> ^YES!! :clap:
> 
> And for the record (just my simple opinion) id rather trail ride a grade horse then show a big name registered million dollar earning sire any day! :hide:


All their poop smells the same, that's for sure.


----------



## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Toto, for the record, I am 54.

I made my ENTIRE living in the horse business for ~20 years and was quite successful at it, and have been involved with horses part-time the rest of my adult life. I am a certified instructor, and my students have won at A rated hunter shows, and up to the Prelim level at USCTA events. One A level and one B level Pony Clubber came out of my barn.

If you're interested in money winnings and have access to Equibase, look up Thirty Eight Go Go, a grade I stakes winner of over $800k - she was one of my many breakers who never offered to buck.

You are perhaps the third person I have ever called out and asked to defend their 
experience in all my time on this forum. Now, there are a lot of people on this forum who misrepresent their skill level, or who give advice beyond their skill level. that's true of any online forum. I might gently question what experience forms their opinion from time to time but otherwise I pretty much let them be.

I'm calling YOU out because in my review of your posts, I haven't seen you post a single helpful thing. If you join a thread, it's to contradict excellent advice given by horsepeople I respect and to make trouble. You are consistently less than respectful, and you consistently fail to back up your opinion with anything other than more emphatically stated opinion.

I jumped into to this thread because you said, in regards to breaking and backing a horse, you expect them to try to get you off their back.

First of all, that's off topic. The OP asked about the advisability of breaking in a bareback pad, not how likely a horse is to buck.

Second, it's epically bad horsemanship. I have never heard a single horseman I respect say anything remotely similar.

Third, when I ask you to defend that opinion, I get a lot of bluster and bombast and counter attack. I still don't know your level of experience or even what discipline you purport to train in. 

So based on the evidence at hand (still all hat and no cattle), at best, I think you are misrepresenting yourself. At worst, you're a troll.

Please feel free to prove me wrong, not by attacking me, changing the subject or derailing the thread, but by posting actual, reasonable experienced based advice in a respectful manner.

We'll wait.


----------



## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Closed for review and some airing out.


----------

