# Retaining Walls



## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

There is a small hill behind our garage, so as the water drains downhill, it floods onto the concrete floor of the garage.
It's not inches of standing water or anything like that, but we don't want to risk any of our hay getting wet that we have stacked in there.

Our plan is to build a low retaining wall along the back of the building that will let us redirect the water, ideally towards our garden.

We've never built a retaining wall before.
No idea how one should be built correctly.
I'll take every bit of advice anyone has to offer because we pick up the cinder blocks on Monday.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

If you do some searches online you should find info. Also where you buy the brick will also have info. Make sure your hay is also on pallets. Even dry concrete will make hay mold.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Why not dig a ditch to direct the water away. You will need to dig one for the footings for the wall anyway and the wall may not be necessary.


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

A simple trench or french drain would be so much easier and just about free. Also, are your downspouts on the garage part of the problem? Direct the runoff as far away as you can or send it into a french drain.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

A retaining wall is not mean as a way to control water flow. It is to hold up otherwise potentially unstable soil/ground/rocks. If you want a retaining wall, go for it, but a retaining wall alone will not solve the water problem. You need to control the drainage / flow around the garage. Some method already posted above.

As well, yes, put the hay on solid pallets. It needs to have air flow all around it or it will mold.


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

Yep, yep, control the water. Really simple in theory, much harder to do in real life. 

I doubt you need a retaining wall, but heck, maybe you do. 

Or maybe redirected drains and a lil ground work is all ya need. Hard to say without seeing it.


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## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

I'll see about getting some photos tomorrow.

We started with a trench, but it sends the water into the barn area, so also not good.
To fully divert the water in the opposite direction, we're looking at a ditch that's 3-4 feet deep at the deep end.

We know for sure that the downspouts are not a problem. On one side, they drain out into the garden, and on the other side, they drain into the stock tank.

Maybe a french drain built in behind the wall?
That should slow the water down and let it disperse into the soil before it would get to the point of running in to the garage, I think.

We have most of the hay on pallets already, and will have all of it re-stacked soon.
In the past, we've done outdoor kept round bales. Now we have square bales that we're attempting to keep inside.
With this being our first time storing hay this way, we weren't really prepared for the volume. What isn't on pallets is on top of storage tubs, Christmas decorations, my husband's workbench... Anything to keep it off the ground.

But, yes, photos are at the top of the list for tomorrow.


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## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

Here's a photo. 
I forgot the grass was so high behind the garage, but you can see the line of the hill at the fence and where the hill extends into the pasture.

The far end of the garage is uphill from the near end.
The new barn is going to be built at the near end (that tree is getting cut down), and will be the same width as the garage.
If we were to dig a ditch, it would either have to be very deep or it would drain into the barn/pasture.

It's not ideal placement on the barn, but it's the only spot that's really close to being suitable.
When the barn is built, were going to grade the hill down inside the pasture to build up the stall floors.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Yup, you need a drainage system - french drain, weeping tile, ditch, whatever works best for you. 3 - 4 feet deep is nothing. Regardless of the system used, if it's not deep enough it's a waste of time, effort and money. It's got to be long enough and directed properly to get the water to wherever you need it to go. 

Sorry for all the typos in my previous post. Maybe I was on my second glass of wine...


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Hmm, maybe not a retaining wall, but perhaps a berm of sorts that can direct the flow of the water into a French drain system. You could build a berm from fill dirt and lay sod over it or plant grass seed to hold it all in place. It would be cheaper than the retaining wall and you aren't as limited in the way you can build it.

Is there anyway you can keep the water out of the garage? Perhaps a inside barrier of some sort?

Also see if you have the space to plant native, water loving plants that would help soak some of the run off up.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

NorthernMama said:


> Yup, you need a drainage system - french drain, weeping tile, ditch, whatever works best for you. 3 - 4 feet deep is nothing. Regardless of the system used, if it's not deep enough it's a waste of time, effort and money. It's got to be long enough and directed properly to get the water to wherever you need it to go.


This. Most people don't realize how much water you may need to drain away. One inch of rain collected over only one acre is already more than 27,000 gallons.


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Instead of a retaining wall, have you looked into a terrace and/or a grassed waterway?


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Horseychick87 said:


> Is there anyway you can keep the water out of the garage? Perhaps a inside barrier of some sort?


Definitely NOT this. An inside barrier is not going to stand up to hydraulic pressure of the run off. Eventually the pressure just destroys it. The water has to be stopped/redirected BEFORE the building.


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

There's actually a lot of options here. Does the property keep falling off past the garage and the proposed barn?


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## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

We're going to put up metal flashing on the outside to cover the gap between the bottom of the garage wall and the top of the concrete floor.
Then we'll need something to better control the water, rather than just block it.

How much water can a french drain handle? 
That's sounding like a pretty good option. Maybe a berm/french drain combo?

I *really* like the idea of the water-loving plants. I'll have to do some research on what would do well in our area. I'd love to put in a native species. 

If we can do this efficiently without the blocks, then they can be repurposed easily enough (they were given to us).

The property does flatten out more beyond the point where the barn will be, but that's the only space we have that's flat enough for the round pen I still haven't managed to build. 
We'd have to go a couple hundred feet (approx) to the back of the property to send the water that way.

I'll see if I can pull a satellite image so you all can see what I'm talking about.


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

Flats ok, as long as it's not uphill. Is the garage and barn going to be tied together? As in one long building?


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## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

Phly said:


> Flats ok, as long as it's not uphill. Is the garage and barn going to be tied together? As in one long building?


Yes. The end of the garage will become the inside back wall of 2 stalls. Depending on the exact way we build, we might end up putting a wooden or metal wall up so its not just the siding, but there will be no gap between the garage and the barn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

I assume you'll have access from the pasture side for the horse, what's the other side of th garage look like? As Far as grade (ground hieght) I have an idea lol.


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## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

Phly said:


> I assume you'll have access from the pasture side for the horse, what's the other side of th garage look like? As Far as grade (ground hieght) I have an idea lol.


<br />
<br />
The other end is inside our front yard fence, and is slightly higher than the pasture end. <br />
I'll get a photo from that end tomorrow evening. <br />
My husband is going to mow down all of that tall grass, so we'll really be able to see it and figure out our options.<br />
<font size="1"><i>Posted via Mobile Device</i></font>


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

Well what I'm picturing is, during excavation for the new barn, is dig out next to the garage as well. Lay drain tile in #8 gravel covered in Fabric and covered in sand. Then the new barn should be tied in then in solid pipe drained under the floor of the barn. So all water is controlled to one side. Then a daylight or dispersion area be established. Ever wanted a pond? Lol. 

But that's just free shooting without a lay of the land.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

If you're already planning to spend $$s on a new barn, I suggest that you find a local excavating person to come out, look at your land and layout plans, and recommend how to grade/drain the area. Around here that are a number of long time farmers and ranchers that do grading/excavating/arenas/ponds/etc that have a lot of valuable experience with the area and soils, drainage, what works, and what doesn't. They will make a recommendation and give you a cost if you choose to hire them. It's a lot easier and less costly to "fix" the problem before you build than after.

BTW, if you currently have a problem with water getting into your garage, the site was not graded properly to begin with.


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Depending how busy your local county SWCD or NRCS office is, they may be able to come out and offer some advise and/or survey the area so you know the elevations of different spots to help plan grading. Free, too. But if it is just a service thing like that it is a low priority, but worth a shot checking with them.


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## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

karliejaye said:


> local county SWCD or NRCS office


What do those stand for?


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Sorry, I forget to switch out of acronym talk.
SWCD: Soil and Water Conservation District
NRCS: Natural Resources Conservation Service

NRCS is part of the USDA (US Dept of Ag). SWCD's are partners with them, locally led and governed conservation groups, often in the same building and sometimes sharing staff with NRCS. There are offices is close to every county in the US and the US territories.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

NorthernMama said:


> Definitely NOT this. An inside barrier is not going to stand up to hydraulic pressure of the run off. Eventually the pressure just destroys it. The water has to be stopped/redirected BEFORE the building.


 
Not alone! Of course not alone, you'd need the berm I suggested, the barrier would be to help keep whatever may still trickle in/ by out. Common sense tells you not to use just a barrier.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Horseychick87 said:


> Not alone! Of course not alone, you'd need the berm I suggested, the barrier would be to help keep whatever may still trickle in/ by out. Common sense tells you not to use just a barrier.


Not even in combination with something else. You have to stop even those trickles before the building. Once the water gets in, you're screwed. Hydraulic force is not to be underestimated.

OP - the local building inspector can probably help for free as well. It's really rather hard to give you tighter guidelines without actually being there. The 3D visual, the soil combination, the lay of the land around your property, what neighbours are doing, etc. etc. There is a lot to consider if you want to actually solve the problem.

The time to do it is for sure when you are excavating for the barn, if you can wait until then.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

NorthernMama said:


> Not even in combination with something else. You have to stop even those trickles before the building. Once the water gets in, you're screwed. Hydraulic force is not to be underestimated.
> 
> OP - the local building inspector can probably help for free as well. It's really rather hard to give you tighter guidelines without actually being there. The 3D visual, the soil combination, the lay of the land around your property, what neighbours are doing, etc. etc. There is a lot to consider if you want to actually solve the problem.
> 
> The time to do it is for sure when you are excavating for the barn, if you can wait until then.


 First let me say pardon my 'tone' I realized after re-reading I came off like I was throwing a hissy, I apologize for that. I'm in a rushed mood today, lots of yard work to do and lightning storms don't make for a happy Horsey. 

I never underestimate hydraulic force. I've worked construction.

From what I gather though, is that her garage wall doesn't completely match up to the foundation, she could reasonably extend the wall to the ground, thus making it a sort of barrier to keep the moisture, not flood waters of course, but the 'leftovers' if you will, to keep the hay as dry as possible, out. As she says she has hay in there. 
This along with a berm/ wall and hopefully a drain system would likely solve most if not all of the problem, so long as the amount of water/ force is calculated properly to allow for enough drainage and a high enough berm/ wall to redirect and absorb the water. Of course it may take re-leveling and changing pathways on the ground to successfully divert the water, not just berms or walls.


OP -All you have to do for the water loving plants is go to your county agriculture department or similar program and ask them. Although I've found that some local nurseries know more about native plants than some Ag departments, LOL.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

No worries, HC - all good.

The wall could be extended OUTSIDE, but not inside. Like a bandaid going beyond the foundation footings/tying in to weeping tiles/drain system and going above the wall/foundation joint about a foot.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

NorthernMama said:


> No worries, HC - all good.
> 
> The wall could be extended OUTSIDE, but not inside. Like a bandaid going beyond the foundation footings/tying in to weeping tiles/drain system and going above the wall/foundation joint about a foot.


 Thank you, for the life of me I couldn't figure out how to type that out, LOL. I had the exact picture of what you described in my mind and couldn't put it in typing. (I think I need some chocolate and a very happy movie, LOL.)


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

HC - I love your new avatar!


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

NorthernMama said:


> HC - I love your new avatar!


Thank you , funny thing is I used to play football (American, not 'soccer', LOL) Getting tackled by a offensive lineman wasn't as painful as some of the falls I've taken off a horse.


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