# Need help. Horse is terrible for farrier.



## 4everflicka (Apr 9, 2015)

My mare used to have decent manners for the farrier but has lately being having very dangerous behaviour. 
I had to get a new farrier, there is very limited farriers in my area, and the one i am using now is very knowledgeable and patient, but ever since he started coming my mare has been awful for him to handle. She was never like this before. 
The first time he came, i ended up having to work so another boarder held her for me. She messaged me after that my mare wouldn’t stop rearing and freaking out, this was super out of the ordinary. I figured maybe because she had a stranger holding her, new farrier, plus apparently they worked on her in an area she normally doesnt spend time in. The second visit, i brought her to where she always gets her feet done. She was a lot quieter for me, but still fidgety and tried to pull back like she was going to rear then stopped. She has kind of been like that ever since, i correct her and she doesn’t do it. Well the last two visits she was so horrible! Kicking the farrier, flying backwards, rearing again and again. We had to stop because she was so dangerous. I did have a vet look at her after the last time, he couldnt find anything physically wrong with her, but she waa so dancy and kicky with her feet he sedated her. So tried again today and she was even worse. 
The thing is she is totally fine for me! I can do whatever with her feet but if anyone else tries she is awful. We are going to ace her next time, and hope she will realize after a couple sessions that she is fine, but if it keeps happening i dont know what ill do. We had two different farriers before and she was fine for both.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

How is she when you handle her feet without a farrier there? I'd be picking up her feet several times a day, in all sorts of locations. Make sure she is good for you holding them, moving them, tapping on them gently with a rock or a hoof pick. If she is bad all the time you may have to start completely from scratch:

Start in the middle of an arena or round pen, not with the horse tied in case she decides to run back or do something stupid. Since she has been kicking I would start by rubbing her legs with a stick or broom handle or some such, something sturdy, so that if she kicks out at it she will get stung. Rub all over all 4 legs until she is not trying to kick and standing quietly. Then just practice bending down and asking her to lift her foot (I tap the inside of the fetlock but some people will squeeze their chestnut or whatever). As soon as she picks up the foot, drop it and praise. Do that until the horse will consistently pick up the foot when you ask. Then start holding the foot, first for only two seconds or so, then longer and longer as she gets used to it. Always try to quit her before she quits you: if you think she's going to pull back at 4 seconds, drop the foot at 3. If she does object, hold on to the foot until she stops struggling (even if it's for a moment) and drop it as soon as she stops moving and relaxes. Eventually you will be able to hold the foot as long as you want, and then you can start gently tapping it with a rock or a hoof pick. Again, start small and not very long, and gradually go longer as she gets used to it.

I'd do that as often as you can, every day. All 4 feet. if you can do it 2 or 3 times a day by the end of the week she'll be totally fine. My guess is either this farrier scared her or hurt her somehow, or something scary happened around her while her feet were getting done, etc to make her suddenly decide that farrier = terror. It will take a little bit of work but if you start now you can nip this in the bud before it gets horrible. 

-- Kai


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## 4everflicka (Apr 9, 2015)

she is completely fine whenever i handle her feet. I recently had to soak and pack one of her hooves too because she had an abscess, and even with me holding her foot up for a long time to clean and pack she was totally fine. I can handle every one of her hooves no problem. But for both the farrier and the vet she acted up. And my farrier has no problem smacking her or getting after her and i even lunged her before and after she tried to misbehave but she would not allow the work to be done.


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## 4everflicka (Apr 9, 2015)

This makes it difficult because i cannot really work on it on my own, because she never does it for me.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

When you handle her feet I doubt you are holding her feet up between your legs and setting pressure on them as a farrier would. 

Sounds as if she is intelligent and quickly learned what she can get away with. As long as I was certain there was no pain, which usually manifests in one leg rather than all four, then when she reacted badly she would think that I was Old Nick himself because I would be after her so hard and fast. 

Using Ace is well and good as long as it is administered before she starts acting up.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

A couple of things:

I'd make sure the new farrier is not hurting her. Some farriers will twist the legs out to the side or do things like cut out too much sole or bar. If a horse associates the discomfort with that person, they will begin to act up even if they have not done so in the past.

Another thing is that I have had a horse that just disliked one farrier very much. The farrier did not appear anxious to me, but told me she was apprehensive about horses that did not stand perfectly still, and my horse acted very badly for her. When I got a different farrier who was very calm and experienced, the bad behaviors went away.


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## 4everflicka (Apr 9, 2015)

No its probably not the same, but i have had to hold her foot upbetween my legs so i could kind of use both hands to wrap/tape it. But even for normal handling with the vet she would kick. We do get after her, like i said my farrier has no problem giving her a hard smack, she jumped straight up into the air after she tried to kick him cuz he made sure he got at her, if she goes up he refuses to let her go so she is not getting away and getting a release. and we decipline her every single time. I make her back hard, and then stand. But its like she just gets worse and will blow up harder every time instead of giving in, and then it gets to the point where it is too dangerous to continue, i do not want anyone to get hurt. I have had her for 6 years and this behaviour only came about 8 or so months ago. She had the one really bad day but he was still able to shoe and trim her and then was fine for a while, and now blowing up hard he can barely trim her.


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## 4everflicka (Apr 9, 2015)

He is honestly the most calm and patient farrier i have met. I dont know enough about feet to look and say he did something wrong that may hurr her, but he is one of the best in my area, highly recommended and everyone wants to use him. But sadly even if he wasn’t that great or my horse just doesn’t like him,,i honestly have no other options. We just do not have enough farriers in the area. The first farrier i was using was crap, and treated her like ****. But even then all she did was slam her feet down. I started using another farrier for a long time, but he does not work as a farrier full time, started dropping clients and was very difficult to get ahold of. The only others i have found will not take new clients. We are kind of in the middle of nowhere.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If you know how to safely use, have you tried twitching her nose?


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## 4everflicka (Apr 9, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> If you know how to safely use, have you tried twitching her nose?


No I originally did not think of this. I have never personally done it but it is definitely something im open to learning. I have heard it is better for short jobs though? So not sure how effective it would be in this situation. I dont know a whole lot about it though. 

Would a stud chain be useful? I just remembered i had to use one on her within our first year because she went on stall rest and was very difficult to handle for a while. Probably still have it kicking around somewhere..


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Some horses do worse if disciplined. If they are nervous or reactive types, it can get much worse if you make a big deal about behaviors and punish them. For some horses it works much better to take the pressure off, if they start to act up take a break, relax, ignore rather than punish. It's up to you to figure out if punishing makes the horse worse or better. 

Are you shoeing the horse? It might help to take a break from shoeing for awhile and just do short and easy trims with the horse barefoot. Then slowly work back into doing front shoes again, and finally all four if needed. 

I'd really try to figure out why the horse has a new problem after all this time. It would seem one possibility would be pain (is there a chance the horse has developed arthritis, or has low grade laminitis)? Or a bad experience which has been compounded in the horse's mind and needs to be desensitized out again, or something else in the horse's health or environment is bothering the horse. Too much hard work so the horse is muscle sore? Or something like a vitamin deficiency making the horse sore? Too much energy due to feed changes/grain or lack of exercise or turnout?


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

You don't twitch the entire time. Only when the farrier is working and you don't start the twitch tightening until they start to act up. It goes on and is tight enough to get their attention then can be tightened a little more if that isn't enough. Duct tape on their nose can work for some. I'm leery about stud chains in shoeing situations unless the horse is already familiar and knows what to expect with misbehavior otherwise this can be a disaster for all. Having others that know what they are doing randomly messing with feet can help as well. Is there someone there you trust that would pick up feet while you hold? I have found with one of mine getting him used to anyone touching legs, picking up feet or holding them up helped. My farrier always had a little fan he used which didn't bother most but then he switched to a larger fan and some of the horses can't handle that. Has your farrier done or changed up anything in the process?


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Are there other people around the barn who could handle her feet so she gets used to people besides you lifting legs and touching feet?

(Oops, just saw @QtrBel said the same thing, I hadn't read that far when I posted.)


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

4everflicka said:


> We had two different farriers before and she was fine for both.


Good for you to try to rule out physical probs as possibility. So often I find horses are 'bad for the farrier' because they are hurting somehow. Maybe not generally, but when having to hold a foot in a certain posi or such. Or the way many farriers hold a hoof - too high or out to the side so it's difficult for the horse. Also possibility he hurt her somehow(perhaps no fault of his) once & now it's becoming an associated behaviour through anticipation of pain, regardless of whether it happens then.

Or it's fear. As the horse has been fine in the past, still fine with you, I'd say that's the likely reason here. Something about this new farrier is not right. Horses are very good at sensing 'intent' & perhaps it's nothing specific the farrier does or doesn't do, but how he is in his head - attitude-wise. And while of course you need to try to control the situation, 'correcting' her for reacting in fear usually makes the fear worse.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Years ago we had a farrier who even our most agreeable horse objected to. We had him once only. Horses pick up on stuff!


Is your horse in a boarding facility? Do others you know use this same farrier? If there was pain you could bute prior to the farrier visit, but it sounds like she just doesn't like the guy. Wish I had a solution for you but I would be cautious about too much discipline until you can figure out what the issue is.


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