# Advice for unpredictable, overreacting behaviour



## Aqua (Jul 6, 2019)

Hi everyone. I'm looking for some advice. I'm an experienced horse person (horses for over 20 years) and have retrained "difficult" and sensitive horses before into fantastic well mannered horses (incl buckers, bolters, shiers etc).

I've currently got a very big OTT TB. Only had him a few months and had a few behavorial issues (headshy, difficult to catch, kicking, needed to be led in an antirearing bit) all of which are fixed. (Leads in a halter nicely, rides in a snaffle bit, catches you in the paddock etc) 

He was doing so well and is very quiet and easy to teach most of the time, but has always been a bit reactive (although seemed to be improving). Last few weeks though coinciding with increased green grass growth (could be coincidence but not convinced) he's become generally more reactive and twitchy. I've had a few instances where sometimes he seems to scare himself, will freak right out (loses the plot) for a min or two, then calms down and and is back to dead quiet almost as if nothing happened. 

He jumped on my foot and almost broke it the other week but up until yesterday was absolutely fine once under saddle. Yesterday had a little slip with his back foot, freaked out completely and turned into a bucking bronco. I landed on my feet, but still managed to smash bones in my leg with the impact and will be on crutches/no riding etc for at least 2 months 

So I'm not sure what to do. If they're "naughty" I can deal with it. You find the trigger and work on that until you fix the behaviour. But how do you fix a horse that has random hair triggers that send him into a terrified and dangerous state?

It's weird because it's only recent that he's been this bad, he was coming along so well until now. Most of the time has beautiful ground manners and easy to ride (for a green horse). Could it be dietary? Other? I've been badly injured out of this one and don't know what to do. I did send him to a professional trainer I guess, but I'm not sure if that unpredictable twitchiness can be trained out. Anyone have any experience with that? He's such a nice horse, but with the horse market the way it is I don't know if I could even give him away to a good home if he's dangerous.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi and welcome! 

I am not sure what type of horses you are used to working with, but OTTB can be reactive all their lives if the circumstances are right. 

Reactive horses, well, react to things sometimes quite spectacularly. My nervy RMHA gelding popped over a tiny jump, hit it with his back foot sending a bucket of rocks tumbling and Totally exploded under me! I was off rather quickly too...

OTTB (this is a generalization) do best with regular (5 days/week) work and something that challenges their brain. 

OTTB are very popular with 3 day eventers, as those horses have the stamina and athleticism to ride hard for three days. 


They are also very popular with Dressage riders, because they are less expensive and can be good movers at the lower levels. 


Barrel racers like them too, the smaller catty ones, as they are quick thinking and of course, fast. 


What type of riding are you attempting to do with this horse? How hard is he working? Is his brain getting challenged?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I would have him checked for ulcers. Sometimes that makes them unpredictable, calm one moment, off the rails the next, probably when their guts are burning.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Your story reminds me of this video I watched a very long time ago. Horses with tons of talent are not the easiest to ride...

Watch until the end


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

> Yesterday had a little slip with his back foot, freaked out completely and turned into a bucking bronco.



Slipping behind is usually a stifle problem. Has a vet looked him over? I wouldn't be surprised that a sensitive horse would react like that if he was to step wrong and wrench a joint or something. Bit of a "something got me!" reaction. If they're chronically sore, they can be reactive to nothing.


How often is he handled and by who? How often is he ridden? How long off the track?


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

duplicate post


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## Aqua (Jul 6, 2019)

Thanks everyone for the replies. I got him to be mostly a dressage and hacking out for variety horse. He's being worked a few times a week (either on the ground, riding or both. Usually not 5x most weeks, probably more 3-4 recently as the weather's been bad and the paddocks can get too wet on those days (no sand area unfortunately where I agist)) and I've being trying to mix things up a bit so he didn't get bored. He's not currently being worked hard as he hasn't been ridden for about a year before I got him, and was quite overweight. I spent over a month just getting ground work established, teaching him to lunge etc and have being bringing him into riding gently as I don't want to overdo it while he's not overly fit and wanted to get the basics established well. I'll admit he is my first straight off the track. Long story.

My last horse was an anglo and could be very hot, spooky and badly behaved when I got her, but you could generally pick what she was going to do rather than this or out the blue can't be reasoned with terror for 1-2 mins reaction. She was considered a basket case by most people but ended up being an amazing horse once you got her on side. The difficult ones often are that way. I thought this boy was with putting the work into, I think he could be pretty talented and seems to (usually) be happy to work.

He slipped because I was trotting him up the paddock and the ground was wet. It wasn't a big slip, felt more like slippery ground I think. He's been checked as sound by the vet who did his rehab (specialist) about 6 months ago, and again by another vet about a month after I got him and has never been lame. I got him rechecked as he can be a bit clicky at times in his hind leg but neither vets seemed concerned about it or his soundness. Also although the recent crazy episode was the slip, I've had him flip out at other random things. When he jumped on my foot he was standing still and I'm still not sure what he spooked at so I don't think it's a stifle problem. 

Haven't had him checked for ulcers as he'd been out spelling on grass/hay for a long time and is a very good doer, but may still be worth looking into.

Only really handled by me atm. Occasionally handled by others when I've been around to see what's happening with no problems. Off the track for over a year, had 6 months of professional rehab for a foreleg tendon injury, then over 6 months spelling before I got him. Was vet checked as sound to go back to any form of exercise.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

They aren't always thin when they have hindgut ulcers. One of mine was a little bit on the chubby side, he was always a little bit of a high-energy type horse, but then he was freaky at random things, I had this horse all of his life and it just seemed really odd to me. After he was treated for regular and hindgut ulcers, all random, freaky behaviors pretty much disappeared. Seems to me, the high-energy type horses seem to be prone to ulcers.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, 

I'd have him checked out by a good chiropractic vet. It is almost inevitable that OTTB's have some kind of body issue, the way they're managed & worked from so young. Hopefully if there are issues, they're something that can be fixed, & the earlier they're addressed, the more likelihood of that - chronic damage in mature horses is far harder to deal with, even if it started small.

On their high octane, low bulk diet, they're also extremely likely to have gut probs. These probs may not be bad enough to cause the horse to be a 'typical TB hard keeper', but they may still cause upsets, especially when food gets richer(such as sweeter grass) & so therefore there's more acid. I *think*(as in not quite sure & long time ago I studied...) that it is more likely it is hind gut, not stomach ulcers that are behind that. So I'd personally put him on a gut support prod, such as Kelato Gastro Aid(recommended by Dr Kerry Ridgeway & I've found that one great for an OT horse I have). I don't know about ulcers causing 'suddenly, out of the blue' type reactivity, but it's def. possible, and any pain can, esp if it doesn't happen all the time.

And yes, you are right that diet/nutrition can absolutely impact behaviour too. Low sugar/starch(NSC) diet, enough roughage and well balanced nutrition is important for health, both mentally & physically. But there are a few specifics to pay extra attention to on that note too... 

Typically, deficiency or imbalance(say from too much Ca) of magnesium can cause a horse to be 'tight' both in body and mind. And Mg is something that is commonly deficient/imbalanced in horse's diets anyway, unless supped. And Mg is depleted more in times of stress and also on high sugar/starch diets, so it's something that you'd expect race horses to definitely need a lot of. Esp when grass suddenly gets sweet or such - I supp with extra Mg in spring or when on rich hay... I'm a hoof care practitioner, deal with lots of 'rehab' horses, started doing this for their health, but also notice a distinct change in behaviour too.

Potassium is something that an excess has generally been regarded as not a problem, as the horse will excrete it. But in more recent years it has been shown that is true for 'acute' OD's but if they're getting chronic oversupply - which horses on rich, cattle fattening pasture often do - this can be problematic & cause 'schitzo' crazy, out of character reactivity.

And toxins in grass & feed can also cause behavioural & health probs too. So a 'toxin binder'(which is in the Kelato supp I give mine) can be worth considering too.

Of course, it may be nothing to do with physical or nutritional probs. May be purely 'behavioural', that you've missed some minor signs & so are going too fast/asking too much from him... or some such. But I would try to rectify/rule out the physical first.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Eyesight is another angle to explore.


I'd take the next two months and send this horse to a trainer who is excellent with OTTBs. Have them evaluate his behaviour and the cause. Have the trainer work with him 5 days a week consistently. At the end of two months, you should have an idea of what you're working with.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Wow! That Casper horse is one lucky horse. I would have quit long before that point! 

I think i would go ahead and try ulcer medication for your ottb. I just started my Paso on nexium. I think it is helping. He never had any colic episodes but he is difficult to keep weight on and stresses easily.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I would look into the ulcers as a cause. The discomfort tends to be 24/7 but horses can develop a coping mechanism to deal with it right up to the minute that something happens that causes them to drop that self control. That’s when they lose it.

Not sure where you are but I would get a Lyme Disease text done. It can produce severe neurological issues that often come and go.


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## Aqua (Jul 6, 2019)

Thank you everyone for the responses! Really appreciate it. Sounds like the ulcer angle is definitely worth exploring further then. Ironically I had been talking to a few people in the days before I got bucked off about Mg supps. I actually thought he was heaps better than the week before but was going to put him on one if he started to get more reactive again. (Just wasn't expecting a bronco session out of him last week.) I was seriously thinking about a trainer, it's just a lot of money to sink into a horse that may always be dangerous and there's no real way of being sure without having the training done. Wouldn't normally be a huge issue but because of the type of job I have, I'm going to be off work for at 6-8 weeks without any income (going to be fun 😕 ) By the same token I'm not sure I'd trust him enough to get on him with a weak ankle in a few months without being fairly sure he wouldn't put me straight back into hospital with another spontaneous crazy episide. I can't afford another few months off. Might talk to some trainers as well and see what they say. Fortunately don't have to worry about Lyme's disease where I am.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Perhaps you might be able to find a good trainer that could at least evaluate him. If they're good enough, they should hopefully have a fair inkling whether or not it's worth putting in more effort.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Aqua said:


> Fortunately don't have to worry about Lyme's disease where I am.



You might want to do some research about that statement... :|

It is now the most commonly reported tick-borne illness in the US and Europe and is found in Asia and *Australia*.
A worthwhile read, _*https://harmanyequine.com/chronic-lyme-disease-horse/*_ , many of what you described pegs your horse...
:runninghorse2:...


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I'd definitely get him scoped for ulcers. It's definitely a possibility...also I would still test for Lyme. Regardless of where you are, it is possible. I'd at least get it ruled out.  

I agree with @loosie on a chiro vet...could be pain related, all the bucking. Horses usually don't act like that for no reason. Sounds pain-related to me. Definitely something to get checked out before riding him, also saddle-fit can come into play; make sure it fits properly.

Good luck! Keep us posted.


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## Aqua (Jul 6, 2019)

Thanks again everyone. I'm in a low-tick area (I've never seen one locally) of Australia where the presence of Lyme's disease is still up for debate and I've never heard of a locally diagnosed case in a horse, so it'd be extremely unlikely. Vet's opinion is its very unlikely to be Lyme's disease in this area. I'd say it's be far more likely to be one of the other things mentioned. https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/factsheets/Pages/Lyme_disease.aspx

Had saddle checked before started riding him. Was riding flatwork in a jumping saddle which isn't ideal. But was only doing short light sessions and the saddler had said it was fine for that. I actually had a saddler booked to do a dressage saddle fitting this week my old one doesn't fit and can't be used on him 😞 I really did try to do everything as well as I could.

May be at least a few weeks before I can act on anything that needs me to go out and catch him (like trainers, chiro or scoping) due to crutches +slippery uneven ground which is going to keep me from leading him anywhere, but I'll keep everyone posted if we find anything.


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## chanciesmom (Feb 28, 2019)

thanks for sharing the video with us- rider has talent and guts- really accomplished with her horse. more guts than i could manage even 40 years ago.amazing progress!!


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