# Is it wrong to give your horse a pat?



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Ugh, I hate being around people like that. The funny thing about horses is that they will interpret the intent _behind_ the action more than the action itself. I pat my horses all the time and they don't seem to mind it. It doesn't cause them to become anxious or try to move away from me. Granted, I don't go overboard and smack the s*** out of them like some folks you see, but I see nothing wrong with a decent pat occasionally.

I even pat my horses on the rump and, :shock: God forbid, on the head/face too. Funny that they can tell the difference between a "you did a good job" pat and a "you need to move over/back" pat, even if they are the exact same firmness.:wink:

I'm sorry to say, but she sounds like a bully. The only way she's ever going to leave you alone is if you, pardon the language, grow a pair and put her in her place.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks for the input. I want to terribly bad, but just cannot find the strength to! She is a bit of a bully, but I just put on a show and act like I'm really learning. She even tells the BO what she's doing wrong, occasionally.
I pat my boy(mostly when she isn't around to butt in) and he reacts just fine...usually it's after a good wither or ear scratch.
I feel like if he disliked it, he'd pin his ears or swish his tail like he does when he's irritated. I think I know my horse and his reactions a bit better than this lady who spends maybe 10 minutes around him a week as opposed to me spending at least 10 hours a week with him.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Believe the horse. If they like something, they will let you know. I'm more of a 'rub-er' that a 'pat-er' myself, but much of what horses like is learned. If something relaxes US, and makes US happy, then horses figure it out and respond to us as individuals. IMHO.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

Tell her that if you wanted her advice, you'd pay her for it. Otherwise, it's not worth bothering with... Well, maybe that's a bit mean, but I would definitely suggest letting her know how you feel.
Honestly, I don't know where she's getting any of this. If there's one thing my horses love more than a treat, it's a pat or a scratch. Especially on the withers. Horses groom each other all the time to bond.
-edit- And I agree with bsms. Listen to the horse. Some of them are a lot less touchy, some love to be touched. But in my experience, horses like it more often than not, and as they're wonderfully honest animals, they always let you know what they like and don't like.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

Yeah, my bratty appy would definitely tell me if he wasn't enjoying it lol


I don't know where she gets any of her stuff. She "taught" me how to bridle my horse yesterday by holding a treat in her hand to get him to "accept" the bit. He doesn't have problems accepting a bit until a stranger comes up and tries it. Then it takes maybe 3 minutes. 
I don't want my horse to assume every time he gets bridled, he'll be treated for it. For Gods sake, he's 15 years old.


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## JaphyJaphy (Nov 15, 2012)

I pat/rub my horse and I know she likes it. But regardless of anyone's particular preferences when it comes to handling their horses, no one should be overstepping your boundaries, period. You did not ask for this woman's opinion. As smrobs said, the appropriate thing to do would be to tell her in a direct way that her input is neither desired not appreciated. You can do it in a diplomatic way, just be straight forward.

I hope that helps. Things like that drive me nuts.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm scared of hurting someones feelings...even if she annoys the heck outta me. Maybe some people like her teachings, I'm just not a fan of unwarranted advice from someone who puts off the vibe she'll never learn another thing about horses in her life; as if she knows everything there is to know. *Thats* what really gets to me.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

"Thank you for your help, but we are fine (and/or) I have to get moving, I only have x amount of time to ride today." ;-) I can't tell you how many times a fake deadline has helped me politely get out of an instruction session or boarder chat that I didn't ask for.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

I'll have to try that one!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Pftt. Patting is probably more for the benefit of the rider than the horse, but as smrobs said, they will pick up the intention behind it, so pat away; and tell the bully to mind her own business people like that are a pain in the backside.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

Thankfully she doesn't own a horse, so I don't see her daily! I will try the "I'm busy today and only have so much time" approach next time.


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## MillieSantana (Feb 17, 2013)

Rubbing and patting are just fine, I don't know why that lady thinks this, but you should be fine. Maybe she meant the big whacks people sometimes give their horses and call them "pats"?


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm definitely not a "whacker"....I've got a broken arm LOL


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I'm a lot like you, where I don't want to really hurt someone's feelings and am so tolerant that I have to force myself to put my foot down, before things get out of hand. You can always practice what you want to say, and recite it before you say it- like writing an essay, you can revise until you're satisfied with it. But eventually, if you keep playing along, she's going to notice that you're not doing what she's saying you should, and you will be put in a tight spot when she asks why- it's just putting off the inevitable. There will be more hurt feelings the longer you put this off- think of her like a hot air balloon. You're just helping to fill her with more and more hot air, and you can either stop it now and just let things deflate or keep going until she eventually explodes.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Soenjer55 is right. The problem is too many of us are nice and it can sometimes be hard to just say “no” or “I’m not interested” because we are afraid of hurting someone else’s feelings or something. My girlfriend had recently had that trouble. Her friends were always wanting her to go and do things with them, shopping, going out to dinner, nothing nasty, nice things actually, but they were getting in the way of her work and it was putting her under a lot of stress. I had to convince her it was OK for her to say, “no, I’m busy”. She did eventually say it; her friends were a bit miffed for a day or so, and now they just get that she has to get through her work. And my girlfriend is much happier. 
My guess is that if you just say to this person something like, “I appreciate that you are just trying to help, but I really need to do this on my own; but I would also appreciate it if I could come to you for advice some time” she might back off and give you some space and probably not get her panties in much of a bunch about it. Let it keep going and it will probably just get worse.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

I don't want to be hated! LOL
I'm gonna try to suck it up and tell her soon...we'll see how it works :/


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

Tell her that if she wants to be a trainer, you'll pay her to shut the h*ll up. When people do that to me, I just completely ignore them and do exactly what I'm doing like they're not even there... that usually gets the point across.

I personally don't like to pat horses just because it can make a sound that will make some horses uncomfortable, if I show affection to a horse I will usually just scratch because horses seem to like it more than petting. You can teach a horse that a pat is good though, and it's a lot easier when you're riding to reach down and give your horse quick pat than to scratch.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

You could try telling her the folks on horseforum.com said pats were fine, but not whacks, and you think you are a patter, not a whacker. You could also suggest she log on and read this thread:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-trainers/pat-clint-151651/

:shock: :wink:


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Tell her to mind her own business and don't be polite either. Hopefully she takes her kids & goes home and plays with them as much as she plays with other peoples' horses.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, haven't read any responses, so I'm sure to repeat what others have said...


xlionesss said:


> My question is: is it wrong or frowned upon to give your horse pats?


Depends what you're doing it for & what the horse thinks of it IMO. Eg. many people slap(pat) their horse as a reward for something, but how many horses actually like it?? I'm sure some probably do, but most at best tend to just tolerate it IME. An actual positive reinforcement needs to be something the horse actually desires, which is usually not a pat/slap IME. 

BUT if the pat is associated/paired with an actual reinforcer, it can come to have meaning to the horse. Just like our words, it is essentially meaningless to the horse... assuming it's not actually unpleasant... but they learn to associate signs with actions, so learn our intent. 

....Which brings me to another reason you may want to pat your horse. Because people do & it's a good idea to desensitise your horse to that sort of thing.... not least because if someone comes & pats him, you don't want him jumping through the roof!



> I have not hired her as a trainer, she just seems to hover while others are working with their horses, also does it to a new boarder and we just cannot stand it anymore. New boarder has no problem telling her to mind her business, but I don't have guts, especially the guts to tell an /elder/(in essence) how I feel. I try not to be rude.


Hmm, those types have me feeling like they need a good poke in the eye! Regardless of how good & valid her information might be, it is she who is being rude in pushing it down your throat. It may be that your responses have encouraged her, but I would be letting her know that you appreciate here helpfulness & her knowledge, but you'd really like to do your own thing... with your own horse. Or perhaps you could take the other tack of thanking her for showing you her approach on your horse & telling her you'd like to return the favour & show her how you do things on her horse:twisted: Or if you can't bring yourself to, perhaps you could ask the BO or the other person to remind her to... be as respectful of others as she attempts to be with horses??


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

bsms said:


> You could try telling her the folks on horseforum.com said pats were fine, but not whacks, and you think you are a patter, not a whacker. You could also suggest she log on and read this thread:
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-trainers/pat-clint-151651/
> 
> :shock: :wink:


^^^ LOL! Perfect!
Like smrobs said, horses know the intention behind it.
I have a horse that actually likes whacking, he will stick his top lip out like you were scratching an itchy spot


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

OK, couldn't help myself, read the whole thread despite too much else to do...



bsms said:


> You could also suggest she log on and read this thread:


...or just THIS thread:wink:


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Or. Every time she comes to tell you all about what you should be doing with your horse take the opportunity to tell her all about the time you were abducted by aliens. Tell her how they took you to their planet, tell her all about the cool stuff they have taught you and that they come and pick you up and fly you around every Thursday night. She should start thinking you are a nutter and that it might be better to just leave you alone. If that doesn’t work, invite hr back to your house to have a look at your knife collection.


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## WesternRider88 (Oct 30, 2012)

I don't think it is wrong to pat your horse, I do it all the time. And if they don't enjoy it they would let me know.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, Anrew :rofl:


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

Anrew, I just MIGHT try that. I can definitely manage that as opposed to telling her to buzz off! I really don't mind if people think I'm crazy, mostly because BO knows I'm not an thats all that matters LOL


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

I wouldn't have any problem telling someone to buzz off if they were interrupting my pony therapy. Seriously, I go out to relax and get some good sweet pats, rubs, squeeze whatever part of her body I can wrap my arms around. I don't think my mare would meet me at the gate if she thought I was a holy terror. 

Think of this as a personal growing exercise for later in life. There will be plenty of people you will have to tell to "Mind your own business", and just think of this as practice!


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

I pat my horses everywhere. Even if it did mean "go away," I would teach them that when I pat them, it means I'm praising them or loving on them. I have other techniques for getting them out of my space.


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## 40232 (Jan 10, 2013)

xlionesss said:


> Yeah, my bratty appy would definitely tell me if he wasn't enjoying it lol
> 
> 
> I don't know where she gets any of her stuff. She "taught" me how to bridle my horse yesterday by holding a treat in her hand to get him to "accept" the bit. He doesn't have problems accepting a bit until a stranger comes up and tries it. Then it takes maybe 3 minutes.
> I don't want my horse to assume every time he gets bridled, he'll be treated for it. For Gods sake, he's 15 years old.


I've had people try to tell me what I do wrong. 
Example: the best trainer I've had so far, one day she overstepped her boundaries with my horse. We were doing lunge work for balance and she had my horse stop and explained stuff to me, and all he did was turn his head to her and sniff her, his was of asking "did I do a good job?" And she hit his jaw and flapped the lungeline at him! "THIS IS UNEXCEPTABLE! HE NEEDS TO RESPECT YOUR SPACE!" And I just sat there like oh my god lady. My horse is by far the best respecter of space, and if you get after him for something as simple as that, he doesn't want to be caught in the pasture the next day. I should of took him away from her, showed her if you wiggled the line he would back up. Smh. She never even guessed his training was based on natural horsemanship, but of course her way is right! 

I would tell her to back off if I were you. Follow your own horse trainer. It doesn't sound like your horse is a crazed, dangerous animal because of you. Sounds like he is mannered, so she has no right to give input.

Nosy, nosy people


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

All of our horses accept pats as praise or greeting. Most non-horsey people tend to do it like you would to a dog. I would hate for a horse to flip out because of it. Better to get them accustomed to it just in case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Mine much prefer rubs and scratches to pats. Old habits die hard but I also consider patting as a form of desensitizing. Your horse will enjoy a scratch around the withers, just in front. That's a popular grooming sight for them.


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## BigBenLoverforLife (Sep 19, 2012)

I usually pat my horse, but he knows the difference, hard hit means he did something bad, and the thing with Ben, he knows when he is doing something bad. If he nips at me he does it then jumps back out of my reach or chews on his rein and then once I turn around he spits it out. If I walk to the tack room, he will start to walk out of his stall, and as soon as I come out he backs back into it. He's a dork! Anyway he likes to be rubbed but I typically just lightly pat.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I pat all the horses at the barn. Usually on the butt when I am cleaning or moving things as a "heads up, human behind you". I can't say any of them mind, half of them see me raising my hand and scoot their butt over.... pat my butt! Ooooh and then give it scratches and I just KNOW there's got to be treats in your pocket! 

Horses aren't stupid, they know the difference between a smack of "Hey, get your butt over, NOW" and "Hey, I'm here and happy with you".


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

xlionesss said:


> I'm scared of hurting someones feelings...even if she annoys the heck outta me. Maybe some people like her teachings, I'm just not a fan of unwarranted advice from someone who puts off the vibe she'll never learn another thing about horses in her life; as if she knows everything there is to know. *Thats* what really gets to me.


SIIIIIIIGH!! I wish I was more like you and a little more....delicate. Once I get irritated enough I lose all my filters. I have a lovely friend who is a Parelli-ite and while I have learned a lot of useful info from her, frequently all that touchy feely, ask don't tell stuff realllllly gets on my nerves. Usually right in the middle of somebody deciding to wear me out by being disrespectful. She has caught the rough edge of my tongue a few times (we've been friends since BEFORE anyone ever heard of Parelli) and she gets over it, though I don't know if your gal will. I tend to bark when I'm p.o.'d and people stand there and start spouting. I feel like since I didn't ask for their help, and 9 out of 10 times they're more distraction than help, then they just need to live with it when I bark at them to "F* OFF! When I have time for that cr*p I'll tell you. Otherwise, either man up and get in here and help or shut up and get out of my sight!". My friend has a pretty thick hide and can be a bit oblivious to MY warning signs so .... until I have actual ears to pin and a tail to swish, she's gonna get verbally kicked. 

And I guess that's the point I was trying to make. If you give unsolicited advice and butt in where you haven't been invited, then you get what you get and you better learn to deal with it.


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## wausuaw (Apr 15, 2011)

:shock:I'm not overly affectionate with my horses, but I do pat/whack/scratch... Gets them used to it, and some horses seem to feel "complete" when they do a good job with some kinda of affectionate gesture (some don't care). I definitely don't do treats, except on rare occasions, and not as a reward. 



> Granted, I don't go overboard and smack the s*** out of them like some folks you see, but I see nothing wrong with a decent pat occasionally.


.... My dad.... I could be working on the meanest, spoiledest, kickingest, brat of a horse, and it NEVER fails, at some point he will appear out of nowhere, directly behind the horse and WHACK, WHACK, WHACK seemingly as hard as he possibly can... And then proceed to roughly manhandle it in anyway possible. Never fails. And each time, the horses reaction is always: :shock: and nothing more.

I'm always cringing for impact of hooves to skull.

And somehow, my dad gets away with it. Every time. 

(Considering every other unimaginably insane, unsafe, and just at times stupid stuff he manages to get away with, I am absolutely amazed he's still alive. He's 70 now... And in those years I swear he has learned absolutely no common sense about anything, lol... But, I love him, and am always prepared in standby mode to doctor him up or take him to the ER)


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

You might try stepping back and landing on her foot...30 or 40 times. Or a heavy sigh and taking your horse and going back into the stall and shutting the door. I have been thoroughly enjoying some of the responses here. : )

In all honesty, you are going to have to set some boundries with her. It would most likely be of great benefit to everyone else in the barn. It's one thing to offer advice if someone has a problem and another thing to offer advice just because you think you are the smartest person on the planet. You aren't in any danger of being rude. She is the rude one.


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

I looooove patting my horse. And my dog, for that matter - both animals make great drums! She fully understands it's loving pats - it's when she gets a really good, solid whack and a stern (insert few words here) that she knows she's in trouble. I like to pat her butt when I brush her tail, or her sides. Play 'horse pat music' on her. She ****** her ears up and turns and looks at me all interested like "What are you doing back there?" Especially when I sing along to my drumming. It's like a big game. (obviously soft drumming. Not like, beating her or anything LOL)

Likewise, when she's being exceptionally good when riding, I lean up and give her some ear scratches/neck pats, and she ****** her ear up and obviously is pleased with herself. 

If she showed any dislike I would stop, but she knows it means I love her. She sometimes gets neck/face pats after a good scratch, and she leans her head against me with her eyes closed. I'd say that a pretty surefire sign that she enjoys her pats  I think it's as everyone else said - each horse will interpret it differently, and they will TELL you what they think of pats. 

And with the next topic - have you said anything to hover-lady yet? She doesn't even own a horse. She shouldn't even be there.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

There is a difference giving a good pat and a pat to move over. Horses pay attention to the whole body language. You may not think you are different but horses can tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

This thread pretty much sums up what I assumed LOL I'm just sick and tired of this lady acting like she can read the horse's mind. I'm waiting for the day she goes to pet him when I'm not there and he tries to take a chunk out of her acting like a friendly little human being...that's what I hate. That's why I don't let her "train" my horse...I feel like he'll overstep his boundaries with her methods.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

xlionesss said:


> I really don't mind if people think I'm crazy, mostly because BO knows I'm not an thats all that matters LOL


Oh you spoil sport - it's very liberating when everyone thinks you're mad!


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

Lol! Well, today I went to ride and guess who was a complete something when I tried to bridle him....yup, my horse. He would NOT let me for life of him and kept mouthing my hand for a treat....I'm SO PO'd right now it's unbelievable. I'm DEFINITELY telling this woman off next time she attempts to "help". Horses learn WAY too quickly and after taking 20 minutes to get him tacked I'm royally upset.
My boyfriend was there watching me and even he was astounded while saying things like "what's wrong with him? He never does this..." I HATE PEOPLE!!


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## backyardhorse (Feb 22, 2013)

Like BSMS stated, I'm a "rubber" rather than a "patter" Think about it in human terms---what feels better to YOU?
I also believe existential pony must be a diplomat in her career. So tactful! My suggestion would be the passive-aggressive route. Like you, I have a long fuse and dislike confrontation. Unlike you, I'd probably totally ignore her and hope she went away


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

backyardhorse said:


> I'd probably totally ignore her and hope she went away


An example of extinguishing a behaviour by never reinforcing it??:wink:


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm not even okay with this anymore you guys, when I see her she is definitely getting an earfull. It is NOT okay that my horse has already learned to seek a treat for tacking up, and I'm mad that it's partially my fault for letting her.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

Just tell her to back off and that you never asked for her help. I had to do this to someone because she just wouldn't back off. I told her she could do whatever she wanted with her horse, but my horse isn't hers and ill work with her how I see fit. Bullies don't stand down unless you make them.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh my goodness! I am so more 'up front' than I probably should be! An acquaintance/quasi friend at my old barn told me she was buying Parelli DVDS so she could start her youngster with it......my response:

'You touch my horse with your magical carrot stick and I'm going to beat you with it!' (She thought I was joking - but she got the message) :shock:


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

^^^ 
Any coincidence that the Muppet you chose was Animal? (said with a slow approving nod of approval)


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, you may not get any peace till you get her to back off. I have, like most, no doubt, had to deal with a few of these. And they all seem to have one defect (well probably a few but lets just focus on the one that gets them in our faces) that leaving them alone, or ignoring them, = invitation for them to keep it up. 
What you probably have to do is figure out the best way to deal with her. 
You asked if it's OK to pat your horse; you seemed to get a reasonable response here from some experienced people vis horses. So you probably don't need to deal with that now
The problem now is to deal with the pain in the bum.
Me, depending on my relation with the person, how long I have known them, I would fall along a spectrum starting with telling them to F off, to just biting my tongue and putting up with it.
My guess is that you, like most of us, don’t want to be a bum-hole and aggravate the woman, so you could, in a nice way tell her you just need to get things done yourself, and just to make a slightly bitter pill for her to swallow a little sweeter, tell her that you would appreciate it if she would let you ask questions in the future (whether you do or not is entirely up to you). Or, do tell her about your alien abduction and probing in the nether regions, I was being facetious, but it should get her to back off. Finally, tell her to ****** off. But you may have to deal with the fallout. 
But for your own piece of mind it will be better to deal with her one way or another sooner rather than later.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

AnrewPL said:


> ^^^
> Any coincidence that the Muppet you chose was Animal? (said with a slow approving nod of approval)


Haha! If only I could poke you between the eyes with my drum stick!!! Actually I enjoy being flat out honest with people, it really liberates a person! I have brutally honest friends and we all have a good ole laugh!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Don't ask me to think before I speak.... I enjoy being just as surprised as everyone else what comes out of my mouth!

...But you're just jealous because the voices on talk to me!


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## Jennakaaate (Feb 26, 2013)

My horse always interprets a pat as "you've done a good job, good boy" kind of thing. But when I pat him, it doesn't make a sound, it's just a soft kind of pat. However, my dad is an old cowboy. He is practically bow-legged from sitting in a saddle all of his life. He's a big man (over 6 ft tall, and 200+ lbs) and he's very loud. He doesn't realize it, though. When he pats a horse, he also means for it to be a "good boy" kind of thing. But when he pats, it makes a loud sound. It doesn't startle my horse or anything, but it is quite loud. Maybe that's what this "trainer" meant?..Idk. I'm not good with rude people. I have a short fuse when it comes to people like her. lol Good luck!


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

Like I said, she'll definitely know soon that I'm no longer putting up with her "help"
I cannot believe I let it go on to this point!


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

I don't really understand why this "trainer" is even hanging around your barn if she doesn't own a horse. Does she lease or take lessons or something?

I agree with everyone else - tell her to go to h-e-double hockeysticks, as diplomatically or directly as you deem appropriate.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Good lord. 
I pat my horses all the time. Sometimes, when they are jerks and start misbehaving, I even hit them. :shock:


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

^^^^*GASP* The horror!!!


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

COWCHICK77 said:


> ^^^^*GASP* The horror!!!


I know, I'm horrible!
My colt today decided to try to kick me in the head so I took my lead rope to his butt. He didn't like that, at all, but... I don't care. :lol:


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> I know, I'm horrible!
> My colt today decided to try to kick me in the head so I took my lead rope to his butt. He didn't like that, at all, but... I don't care. :lol:


Hmmm I though you'd have kicked him.....haha but I guess your in no condition for that....yet:lol:


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Oh, he wasn't trying to kick you it was a "love pat".
(sounds like you gave him one back..tee he!)


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Oh, he wasn't trying to kick you it was a "love pat".
> (sounds like you gave him one back..tee he!)


LOL
We will have to work on our issues with his returning his "love pats". He's gotten into this really bad habit of crow hopping whenever I go behind him and then backing up and kicking out with one leg when I don't move out of his way. 
He keeps it up he's gonna get one HECK of a "love pat" back. 
It would be like that movie "Ghost." Harder you hit, the more you love. :lol:

Sorta back on topic - I do have two mares that love their butts being patted. Like honestly. LOL


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> Hmmm I though you'd have kicked him.....haha but I guess your in no condition for that....yet:lol:


****
Right you are! I still am right legged so it's tough (I still gotta sit to put my jeans on. :? ) so put all my weight on my left leg. I'm not nearly as agile as I used to be, either, and he almost got me. :evil:


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

WS, did you break a leg?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

COWCHICK77 said:


> WS, did you break a leg?


Broke my femur, left hip, left forearm, and left wrist. 
When I do it, I do it good.  lol

I just go the A-OK to start walking (with a cane, which actually would helped me today across young Khade's butt :lol: ) and to stay away from the horses BBUUUUTT.... That's not gonna happen. :lol:


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> Broke my femur, left hip, left forearm, and left wrist.
> When I do it, I do it good.  lol
> 
> I just go the A-OK to start walking (with a cane, which actually would helped me today across young Khade's butt :lol: ) and to stay away from the horses BBUUUUTT.... That's not gonna happen. :lol:


Gawd I guess...you don't mess around!!! Geez!
Sounds like you are on the mend if you are whooping ponies with your walking device! LOL! Glad to hear you are on the mend, and hope you get healed up!!!
(I wouldn't stay away from the horses either, probably the only thing that keeps your sanity if your laid up)


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

WSArabians said:


> LOL
> We will have to work on our issues with his returning his "love pats". He's gotten into this really bad habit of crow hopping whenever I go behind him and then backing up and kicking out with one leg when I don't move out of his way.
> He keeps it up he's gonna get one HECK of a "love pat" back.
> It would be like that movie "Ghost." Harder you hit, the more you love. :lol:
> ...


Maybe it's a mare thing, lol- my sister's mare loves butt pats too. When I walk into the pen and stop to scratch her forehead, she just sighs and moves until I'm scratching her butt instead, lol. It's always interesting to explain to people that she's not going to kick them, she just wants a butt pat. I have never encountered a gelding who liked butt pats though.


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

We were all out in the pasture the other day and I thought of this thread. As I patted my horse. And just busted up laughing 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

soenjer55 said:


> Maybe it's a mare thing, lol- my sister's mare loves butt pats too. When I walk into the pen and stop to scratch her forehead, she just sighs and moves until I'm scratching her butt instead, lol. It's always interesting to explain to people that she's not going to kick them, she just wants a butt pat. I have never encountered a gelding who liked butt pats though.


LOL
Maybe because last time someone went down there they lost something precious. :lol:


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Gawd I guess...you don't mess around!!! Geez!
> Sounds like you are on the mend if you are whooping ponies with your walking device! LOL! Glad to hear you are on the mend, and hope you get healed up!!!
> (I wouldn't stay away from the horses either, probably the only thing that keeps your sanity if your laid up)


Oh, I'm on the mend! Been a LONG four months but things are starting to finally look good! I'll play with ponies, but I'll go along with the no riding this once. Until May. LOL
This is the first time I broke a bone that wasn't horse related, actually. Oh, except when I flipped my quad and broke my collar bone. Or ran into a wall and broke my toe. 
This time it was purely mechanical. And first and last, hopefully! :shock: lol


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> Oh, I'm on the mend! Been a LONG four months but things are starting to finally look good! I'll play with ponies, but I'll go along with the no riding this once. Until May. LOL
> This is the first time I broke a bone that wasn't horse related, actually. Oh, except when I flipped my quad and broke my collar bone. Or ran into a wall and broke my toe.
> This time it was purely mechanical. And first and last, hopefully! :shock: lol


I really wish people would stop crashing that hard! Us wrecker drivers have to clean that mess up lol. Glad your ok 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Holy sh!t!!!!:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:
Glad your alive and on the mend! What a wreck.
Here is to a speedy recovery!!!! (cheers with a Bud Light can)


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Phly said:


> I really wish people would stop crashing that hard! Us wrecker drivers have to clean that mess up lol. Glad your ok
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey, blame the firefighters! They ripped it apart even after I was done. :lol:


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Holy sh!t!!!!:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:
> Glad your alive and on the mend! What a wreck.
> Here is to a speedy recovery!!!! (cheers with a Bud Light can)


Bud Light...LOL
Canadian, man... I couldn't believe Montana didn't have any. :shock: :lol:


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> Hey, blame the firefighters! They ripped it apart even after I was done. :lol:


That's one of my biggest pet peeves! It takes six firefighters to cut the roof off, and peel a door. But I'm by my dang self to load it all on my truck. I once hauled a car that I helped the FD turn into three pieces. They needed towtrucks to seperate the halves, to extract the passengers. Then the frickers left! Sonsa..........
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> Bud Light...LOL
> Canadian, man... I couldn't believe Montana didn't have any. :shock: :lol:


:shock: Whaaaa??? LOL


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Phly said:


> That's one of my biggest pet peeves! It takes six firefighters to cut the roof off, and peel a door. But I'm by my dang self to load it all on my truck. I once hauled a car that I helped the FD turn into three pieces. They needed towtrucks to seperate the halves, to extract the passengers. Then the frickers left! Sonsa..........
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL
Well, the semi took my door off, but they did work on the roof and front end. 
And there was quite a bit of debris for the poor trucker to load up. And, of course, in the worst possible weather. 
The worst part? I don't remember if they were hot or not... :?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

COWCHICK77 said:


> :shock: Whaaaa??? LOL













Sorry, OP, for derailing your thread. It's a bloody tradition for me. Blame my ADD. :lol:


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

MMMMM...Molson.... 

(Yes, I apologize to the OP as well!)


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

LOL no worries, and to someones question....she comes to the barn to help "train"
I believe specifically for a gelding here who is bottom of the totem pole, quiet and sweet etc....but his owner is VERY timid. 
Honestly I have not one clue LOL


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If a horse is afraid of your 'patting' then it means you're doing something wrong - presenting a threatening attitude rather than a rewarding one so that sort of says something about that Parelli persons way around horses doesnt it
My horses get patted all the time, always before I get off them its a good pat on the neck and ''good girl/good boy' Horses like to know you're happy with them.
If I get a young horse thats not been used to handling I start off with a scratching and rubbing thing and build on that
I actually think that patting a horse and it being OK with it and enjoying it is a really good trust building ex







ercise


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

Your horse is going to read your body language associated with each pat, wack, or what ever else. Its all about how you feel and your relationship with your horse. I can make Ke do stuff easy and other people not so much it works on the same principal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

xlionesss said:


> LOL no worries, and to someones question....she comes to the barn to help "train"
> I believe specifically for a gelding here who is bottom of the totem pole, quiet and sweet etc....but his owner is VERY timid.
> Honestly I have not one clue LOL


She comes to YOUR barn. YOU pay board there - not her.

You need to talk to your BO - who needs to talk to her about offering unsolicited advice - harassing and nagging her boarders. More than one person has changed barns due to problem visitors.

One hard and fast rule for outside trainers - they are there to work with a specific horse or person. If they can't handle that - they can work out of someone else's barn.


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## reigninseattle (Nov 15, 2012)

Give that lady an earful! I'm very non-confrontational as well, but if my horse refused to take the bit without a treat after she "showed me how to bridle", I would be yelling at her. And swearing. That is completely unacceptable. Tell her off next time you see her, be brave. At this point she is negatively affecting your horse and that is NOT ok, even if she gets mad, do you _really_ care if a person like that likes you? I wouldn't. After that, if she ever offers any more unsolicited advice, ignore her. Give her the cold shoulder. If she says "Let me show you how to ____", cut her off and say "thanks I'm good" or "no thanks" and just walk away.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Whenever someone tries to "teach" me something idiotic, my response is usually to babble, babble, babble! That scares them off.

On a side note, Parker LOVES to be patted. And scratched. And rubbed. He just generally loves contact 

. . . Except when he tried to cow kick with his hind/paw at me with his front (yeah, I don't know he didn't fall down) at the same time. He is now a born-again Christian LOL.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

xliionesss, I have to agree with the other 100's of suggestions- (and I am a very mild-mannered person) _do not let this go on for another day!, _The _very next _time she comes and does this, tell her, "Thankyou for taking such an extreme interest in my horse,_ but I'm all set and quite sure you have a very busy_ _schedule!"_ *Then talk to your BO the very 1st chance you get* - this gal is borderline wacky, and getting her kicks out of bullying others. Tell the BO she may lose your business as the the situation is worsening. You deserve better. "Just Do It!" Best of luck


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## xoxoNohea (Jun 25, 2012)

xlionesss I agree with everyone who said you need to speak up. I'm usually the shy, non-confrontational type myself, but I had someone try and tell me how to work with my boy and I pretty much told them to shove it. I know my horse and what is best for him and I'm positive you know your boy and what is best for him. I don't think there is anything worse than trying to spend time with your horse and feeling like you are being judged by someone who "thinks" they know it all. She needs to back off!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

jaydee said:


> If a horse is afraid of your 'patting' then it means you're doing something wrong - presenting a threatening attitude rather than a rewarding one so that sort of says something about that Parelli persons


Yes, it may well:wink: But having had a bit of an education with Parelli(albeit not for close to 20 years, so not sure about the 'modern, new fangled' ideas I hear from them...) the principle behind not patting(maybe he should have changed his name with that principle??) is just that horses, cats, women.... etc don't (generally) find it pleasant. Therefore it is not (generally) a positive reinforcement, therefore don't use it as one. 

I agree fully with that principle, have found that horses don't tend to like being smacked/patted, but as with all principles, as I remember one of PP's sayings was something like; 'never say never, usually say usually' - in other words, there are always exceptions & if's & buts to any 'rules'.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

loosie said:


> ) is just that horses, cats, women.... etc don't (generally) find it pleasant. Therefore it is not (generally) a positive reinforcement, therefore don't use it as one.
> 
> I agree fully with that principle, have found that horses don't tend to like being smacked/patted, but as with all principles, as I remember one of PP's sayings was something like; 'never say never, usually say usually' - in other words, there are always exceptions & if's & buts to any 'rules'.


IDK, I tend to like a little pat on the butt from my hubby, lol...:lol:

Anyway, I agree that this lady is a bully. Just bc you do it different doesnt make it wrong. I have a 16yr old in my neighborhood just like her. But I decided to just smile and be nice, then start callingher out on stuff in a polite manner, lol.... Pretty much ANY horse she finds is gaited. Apparently she thinks if they stick their tails out or rides smooth it means they are gaited.... So I just straight out asked her what kind of gait he had, and she said IDK you'll have to ask the owner. BUT the owner had said she doesnt know! I'll wait and find more instances, lol.... Maybe it's starting to sink in to her. Bc I'm no the only one that has questioned her. BUT anyway....

if this lady is a narcissist, you wont get anywhere. So all I'd say is "I dont have a problem with my horse. We've done it this way for X many years, and he doesnt mind, I've never had any problems with him, so I am not going to worry about it, and stick to what I've always done."


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I have one that mugs for attention. He'd be happy if I patted him all day long, as long as I was paying attention to him. Now the other horse is just the opposite. If I patted him he'd step away. Ok, guess who's going to get lots of patting. Whether or not he likes it, it's a form of desensitising. I'll pat him with both hands, all over until he drops his head. Then I'll quit.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yes, my horse wasn't the only one irritated yesterday when I was riding & a tourist marched up saying how she loooves horses & started smacking him on the face! Glad he's desensitised to it, so he put up with it while I said 'don't smack my horse please' - the look of confusion & shock on their faces when you say that to people - it's never occurred to them that the horse may not enjoy their 'affections'!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

When the tourist finished you should have smacked them in the face a few times saying “well aren't you a nice tourist to happily smack away on my horse's face”.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^^ I sure felt like it! That's actually how I get through to kids who invariably reach out for a horse's nose - I reach out for theirs & ask if they'd like a pat on the nose!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Oh, there's no accounting for non-horsey people - last year riding on that same quiet bush trail I took my pony & let him run free with us. Near the end of the ride we met a ranger who said "Do you mind keeping the pony on lead please, because tourists use this trail & he might jump up on someone"!!


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## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

I am not a big pat-er if you think about it, if your horse can feel a fly on them what does you pat feel like. NOW, i am not saying don't pat your horse pat away, but think about it and I think a few have said it, but your horse will let you know if its too much.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

CowboyBob said:


> I am not a big pat-er if you think about it, if your horse can feel a fly on them what does you pat feel like. NOW, i am not saying don't pat your horse pat away, but think about it and I think a few have said it, but your horse will let you know if its too much.



That's the thing, people mistake sensitivity for low pain tolerance.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Yes they can feel a fly land on them but they can also take a kick without much issue. They can be hurt. Just because they can feel a fly land on them doesn't mean that they are as delicate as a flower or china. A pat or even a whack from a training stick has no comparison to a kick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I'd have offered "Here, let me show you a better way" and also offered an explanation. People like to touch horses but often don't know how so they just wing it. It's with the best of intentions.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^^If that was to me, yeah, agree... which is why I only _felt_ like smacking them but didn't!


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## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

I have also had the tourist pat problem, my reasponse if someone just walks up and starts petting without my permission etc, is usually to smile sweetly and back my horse away, explaining that shes not safe for strangers. (She is safe, but its the only excuse that works for me)

Of course, if anyone comes up to me and asks politely if they may pat my horse, I will dismount, and show them where and how she likes her pats.

Its kinda funny tho, because Shakira has learnt to associate tourists with praise and a rest, so as we canter down the beach her ears will flick to any person who walks past, wondering if they want to say hello. Shes too polite to stop or nicker, however.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Give the horse pats. It lets the horse know that what he did was right and he si a good boy etc.
When he does something good or if you just wanna love on him, pat him. It isn't harmful to anything.


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## Ellie Bramel (Jan 18, 2012)

I have a saying that I derived from the book called Spirital Materialism by Rimpoche. The saying is... "sometimes you've got to slap 'em." You can start out by politely setting boundries with her. You might get a little nervous about it. That's part of your healing.Get tough if she chooses to cross the boundries that you have set. Just like with a horse. Just don't hit her (jk). She may need to be embarased. It may be very healing for her to learn, by being told where the boundries are. People might start liking her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Ellie, I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding this thread or you meant to reply to a different thread. This one is about giving a pat as praise, not as discipline.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

usandpets said:


> Ellie, I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding this thread or you meant to reply to a different thread. This one is about giving a pat as praise, not as discipline.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i think ellie was refering to the parelli trainer, not the horse.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Buck up and tell her to back off. Some situations call for a little meanness. People will walk all over you otherwise.

Offering to help someone is one thing, but hovering and gushing information (especially to relative strangers) is past her boundaries, and you shouldn't have to put up with it.

Horses aren't stupid. They know the difference between a "good job" pat and a "back off" smack. Your horse will survive being patted. If that's the worst thing that ever happens to him, he's got a darn good life. :wink:


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## livelovelaughride (Sep 13, 2011)

Keep it short and sweet, something like, 'we're doing just fine, thank you'.
Repeat as needed. Don't worry, you will not hurt her feelings!
Eventually she will get the message, sooner, if everyone does/says the same thing!


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Lawd, what would the woman who said: "I shouldn't pat my horse on the neck" say if she knew I kissed my horse on the nose - that in fact I prefer to kiss my horse rather than most of the women I meet.

PS I also cuddle my dog.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Barry Godden said:


> Lawd, what would the woman who said: "I shouldn't pat my horse on the neck" say if she knew I kissed my horse on the nose - that in fact I prefer to kiss my horse rather than most of the women I meet.
> 
> PS I also cuddle my dog.


 You sound like my husband
Hopefully I'm the only woman he chooses to kiss!!!


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

The Lady Lion

The issue of ‘to pat or not to pat’ is a serious matter for the horse/owner/rider/trainer to consider. Remember what we horse owners are aiming to do is to teach the horse into becoming a responsive domesticated animal. The animal is to be part of our wider family and it may find its role alongside the dog, the cat and maybe even the budgie. However the foal is born with feral instincts and in theory it could live untended by man as do its wild brethren. The foal learns from its mother and any young stock it may run with, a way of surviving. It was born with fear and it is taught by its equine peers of what to be afraid. 
Then along come we humans who seek to teach it how it can be useful to man.
Actually we can’t teach it very much that it does not know already through its genes but what we can teach is performance upon command. To achieve this objective calls for patience, understanding, observation and experience on the part of the tutor. The horse cannot speak but otherwise its senses of hearing, smell, touch, sight and taste are acute. Therefore we humans must adapt our methods of communication with the animal to achieve our aim. The horse does not understand our words. A single syllable word such as ‘halt’ or ‘stop’ to a horse merely a sound which calls for an acquired response once learned. Whereas it can feel the presence of a fly upon its skin. Touch becomes therefore a powerful tool in our schooling.
The fundamental obstacle to the human when schooling the horse is the fear which has been inborn in the horse as an instinct for survival. In a country like the UK, we humans are the top predator of the animal kingdom and the horse soon learns that undoubted fact. It has its own ways of judging us as fellow creatures on this hostile planet and it makes that judgement from experience with us. When we go up and stroke the horse on the neck, or the shoulder, the belly, the back, the leg, then we humans are offering peace and companionship. Along with us should come safety, shelter, food and tender loving care. 

So, as long as ‘a pat’ is not ‘a slap‘, then the horse won’t object to our touch, even if we are named as a predator, indeed it make come to welcome the contact with a fellow Earth dweller - especially if the human comes bearing treats. And if the response to a pat is returned by our equine companion either as a lick or a gentle nudge - then are we not blessed?


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I started with Parelli when I got my first horse several years ago....it worked for me, my horse and our situation at the time. However, I feel I have now graduated from the Parelli ways. Along the way, I've had different horses and different techniques enter my life. I've taken bits and pieces from all of it.

In my beginning days, I was also told about patting being wrong. Now, I don't believe that. I am a very 'hands-on' my horse kind of person. My horses definately know the difference between me patting them and telling them to move. Horses don't pat eachother.....because they can't!! I also believe that some horses are much more sensitive than others. Some may also have old experiences that they relate the pat to. My old mare, when I started with Parelli, was one of those....so that was why the more subtle ways of things worked for us. However, after I had a relationship developed with this mare, I can't say she minded it if I patted her then.

So, I would say read the horse whom you are working with. If it bothers them, don't annoy them. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with it really.


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## Ellie Bramel (Jan 18, 2012)

christopher said:


> i think ellie was refering to the parelli trainer, not the horse.


One person in here suggested telling the one that is hovering to (and I quote) "Shove it" I think that to be unappropriate. So I sugessted a gentle way to approah the one that hovers. Maybe no one has ever told the one that hovers that her behavior is not apropriate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

I agree with horses understanding the intent behind an action. I pat my horse lightly, sometimes, to reward him. He understands this and is very happy to be patted. His favorite is a good rubbing though. As for that trainer. I would tell her, "I really appreciate you taking an interest in helping me and my horse. Sometimes I feel like you are putting me down though and it makes me really uncomfortable. I know you are just trying to help, and I thank you for that. Going forward, would it be ok if I just come to you with any questions I have, rather than you watching over me?" I think this is a nice way to ask her to back off.


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## Ellie Bramel (Jan 18, 2012)

Bagheera Thats a gentle aproach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Hold your fist up "Ima pat _YOU_ if'n ye don't git outta here!" :wink: :lol:

Just kidding, of course. Good luck with your situation.


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## Ellie Bramel (Jan 18, 2012)

LadyDreamer said:


> Hold your fist up "Ima pat _YOU_ if'n ye don't git outta here!" :wink: :lol:
> 
> Just kidding, of course. Good luck with your situation.


Laugh! That's the last resort and only if your toes start to hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

There is a difference between patting a horse on the neck and hitting it's neck to move it away. The horse can sense intent and energy level and will react accordingly. When I want to move the horse away, my hand is closer to his eye and it's always the hand that's closest. My energy level is also higher, thus he moves away. Yet if I'm goofing around I can slap both hands all over his body and he knows he doesn't have to move. He understands my intent.


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

xlionesss said:


> Yeah, my bratty appy would definitely tell me if he wasn't enjoying it lol
> 
> 
> I don't know where she gets any of her stuff. She "taught" me how to bridle my horse yesterday by holding a treat in her hand to get him to "accept" the bit. He doesn't have problems accepting a bit until a stranger comes up and tries it. Then it takes maybe 3 minutes.
> I don't want my horse to assume every time he gets bridled, he'll be treated for it. For Gods sake, he's 15 years old.


All bribing a horse will get you is a spoiled rotten horse. IMHO


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

sorry I posted that before I read all the posts.


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## Stashman (May 13, 2013)

Sounds like your so called "trainer" is one of those "know it all" types. I've heard that horses prefer being stroked or rubbed because it feels most like their mothers tongue, but I don't think its wrong to pat your horse. Even if horses did in fact not like pats, they still can feel the meaning behind a gesture, and would still take it as an act of kindness. So just treat your horse how you see fit, and try not to let your "trainer" person get to you. No one knows your horse like you do.


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## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

I totally agree with the *intent* theory, that the horse understands the meaning behind the action to some extent.

This is because I used less pressure to ask a horse to move off than I do when praising her physically. I think my horse see see the difference in my subtle body language.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

From the time I was a kid & first involved with horses (the 50's), I intuitively knew that they didn't like being patted, but instead liked being stroked. Decades later, Pat's teaching that fact impressed me: hardly any horsemanship teachers mention it.

They might read a harmless intent behind patting/slapping, but they still prefer strokes (aside from toning massage techniques). Simply look at their facial expressions: are they tolerating it, or enjoying it?


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

My guy most certainly loves being patted, and always leans into it. Different horses like different things - he just happens to like more pressure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

This thread made me start paying attention as to when I pat my horses and I realized they get a fairly resounding couple of slaps when I'm done with them. It was not an intentional thing, it just started happening and now they know it's ok to walk away.


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## equestrianfriend (Jun 27, 2013)

domesticated horses, and probably all horses love a good pat. Some horses may have sensitive areas where they don't like to be touched. Common places are face, legs and quarters, but most horses will know you mean it lovingly.
P.S. Overthrow the trainer, mutiny!!!!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Most horses prefer rubbing or just touching to patting. I think patting is more about tolerance, not enjoyment.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

WOW how is this thread still alive?! LOL
Well, thankfully I moved from this hell-hole barn about a month ago. My horse and I are much happier at the new place.


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## Ellie Bramel (Jan 18, 2012)

xlionesss said:


> WOW how is this thread still alive?! LOL
> Well, thankfully I moved from this hell-hole barn about a month ago. My horse and I are much happier at the new place.


That was a good move, why didn't I think of that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

Ellie Bramel said:


> That was a good move, why didn't I think of that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




LOL this "trainer" definitely wasn't the only reason I moved. Way too many horses on not enough acreage, price for lack of amenities, no where to ride etc etc


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

Props to you for getting out of there, some times it is best to move onto greener pastures. I don't think there is anything wrong with giving your horse a pat if done right. I go out with my horses and just chill with them, I know their personalities and they know me. One of my mares is this big, husky thing, (okay, ALL of my mares are big, husky things, but one in particular,) and she is actually fairly 'sensitive'. She doesn't need hard cues and corrections, but she does need to be told when she is doing a good job. If I praise her, she'll lick her lips and sigh a few seconds after. I was riding her the other day and I gave her some good pats on the shoulder and butt and she knew it was praise. Other people will go up to my horses and smack them hard, and they don't enjoy it near as much. I guess it is about the nature of the pat, and how much you coddle them. And I guess what knowledge you were brought up with.

While I'm not a devout Parelli follower, my trainer was and she was a good horsewoman, teacher, and not condescending in the least. A lot of people dislike Parelli, but honestly it sounds like you were dealing with a self-righteous cowgirl who over stepped her bounds. The worst part is, she might of actually believed being an annoyance was going to change anyone.


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## Muriel (Jul 22, 2013)

*My reaction*



xlionesss said:


> Anrew, I just MIGHT try that. I can definitely manage that as opposed to telling her to buzz off! I really don't mind if people think I'm crazy, mostly because BO knows I'm not an thats all that matters LOL


I deal with people like this often. I tend to not say things to someone for several reasons 1) I hate lying 2) with some it becomes an argument, or 3) I end up being just as rude and obnoxious.

This is what I do and it has worked every time: I continue doing exactly what I was doing, not even acknowledging the person, eventually I will be done and walk away. Works every time I typically do not hurt that person's feelings doing this because they don't feel anything. Try that, as she doesn't have a horse, you will eventually get away from her.


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## Faylool (Dec 27, 2012)

Yeah, there is a part of Parelli program some people don't get. It's the opportunity to get creative, so long as you ave the understanding of the basics and the reasons to do things a "certain way". If you have successfully passed level I and you are interested in level II there are a lot of areas to investigate now. I found the horse temperament personality stuff very helpful. I'd say the right brain introvert would be a horse you wouldn't "pat". However....I pat with the good intention and not hard because other people will do it to her and horses get used to stuff... I rub a lot too and especial that part of the mane 2/3rds down and around. But you can tell if a horse lines something or is just putting up with it. So, without being timid around my horse or afraid to insult it I try different things, read the horse and discontinue or continue accordingly. I have found the face and head is a sensitive zone so I approach more slowly, start at the shoulder or side of neck under the ear and work my way under and around over to top TC... Just a usual coming to say hi and oh yeah I will be rubbing an eye and nose, maybe cleaning and scratching ears blah bla blah.


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## Hrsmn (Aug 8, 2013)

You'll meet plenty of people like this in the horse world. Sometimes they actually do have a good idea to contribute though. Depending on how you pat and the nature of the horse, I'd say she could be right. I doubt it will make much difference unless you pat pretty hard, and even then most easy going horses really tolerate it well so it's really not a big deal unless the horse is sensitive and you pat pretty aggressively. I personally think most horses probably prefer a stroke/rub over a pat and I think the nervous horses generally calm down better with gentle strokes but get more nervous with pats. 

Consider yourself or even a dog or cat, you probably would prefer strokes over pats. But I doubt you would go crazy if someone gave you a pat as opposed to a stroke.


Also, reaching out to touch horses I think is more intimidating than bringing your body close to them so that you don't have to reach so far. This definitely mimics natural interhorse behavior. They brush against one another all the time if they are friends, but reach out to one anther with teeth and hooves if they are not friends.


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## beachluvr (Feb 9, 2013)

i have been in that situation and understand being annoyed but not wanting to seem rude. I chose to listen to her talk, all the while, going about my business...whatever it is at the time. I just listen without too much comment and not changing what I do for her sake. If she gets no reaction from you she hopefully will get bored listening to herself once she realizes she is not influencing you.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

I realize OP has moved but my thinking is this. Unless there is a dangerous, or abusive, situation brewing, I keep my opinions to myself unless otherwise asked for my opinion or help. Sure, I've had to bite my lip a few times to keep from interfering in some issues but while maybe not horse illiterate, what people were doing was more lack of experience vice true damage. Now, if I see one of the kids having a problem with bridling a horse who suddenly decides to become their giraffe half, I'll walk over and ask if they need help. 

I expect the same courtesy in return. If there is a situation developing of which I am unaware for whatever reason and it can become dangerous I expect someone to speak up, but, unless I ask for help or someone's opinion (outside of my trainer or fellow riders that have more experience than me and are helping me out) then I expect people to not do what this woman was doing. I WILL tell someone off, politely, if need be.

AS for patting..understanding my horse, I pat the rump and shoulder and will otherwise give rubs anywhere else. If I am actually riding at the time I may do a quick stroke of the neck followed by a couple of LIGHT pats..never could figure out why people have to give those over exaggerated versions I see..I sure wouldn't want to be patted that hard  but the fact the horse doesn't launch them may mean they are either used to it or don't care.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I was just reading a scientific paper that the best place to touch a horse is where the withers meets the spine, in a stroking fashion in the direction of the hair. The conclusion was that patting can raise the horse's energy level because this is not part of horse communication. This could result in a horse becoming fearful and reacting in an unpleasant manner.


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## Lostlita (Aug 13, 2013)

Patting your horse is not wrong at all -.- If the horse doesn't particularly enjoy it though, oh well! Patting the horse doesn't hurt it, and the more you do it, the more your horse won't mind it.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

My horsie certainly doesn't mind pats xD


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

WELL ANYWAYYYY this thread is extremely old.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I think a horse could become tolerant of patting yet may still not like it.


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## xxxxxxxponyhorse1516 (Aug 17, 2013)

Yes, it's grand to pat your pony! This person sounds like a bit of an eejit, actually. Did you see the post in the Natural Horsemanship forum about the Parellis?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

xlioness, the thread is still going because it has raised awareness in people. I tried working with the horses, just doing short strokes down both sides of the spine. The horses were at liberty. I touched nowhere else and both horses became quite relaxed. I have also merely stood with the horses, facing the same direction, doing as they do. It gets interesting.


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

I still pat my horse...no shame.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^Ha, the above.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Saddlebag, turn your back to them when your just hanging out with them. Sometimes it gets pretty amusing. Most can't stand being ignored. Only the senior mares were able to resist a poke with a nose or shift to get your attention.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

SueNH I often turn my back to the horses. When training a fearful horse to accept being haltered without him getting rigid, I'd place it halfway on, remove it then walk away and stand with my back to him for half a minute. This was done maybe half a dozen times and then he began to search to put his nose in. By the time I stopped the session he was relaxed with being haltered. That was when I realized the importance of turning one's back to a horse. It can be a powerful tool.


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## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

I don't *pat* so much as my mare doesn't seem to enjoy it, but I often rub her around her lips, ears and stroke down her blaze because this really seems to relax her.

Also if I ever see her itching or trying to itch herself I will go over and scratch her where she wants to be scratched.

But I have meet some horses that loved a *slappy pat* so each to its own I suppose. Like someone else said, if the worst thing that ever happens to your horse is that it gets a pat, its a lucky horse.


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## Chessie (Mar 13, 2012)

Sometimes people get a little drunk on their own knowledge and enjoy sharing it because doing so boosts their sense of self-importance. If I have to get snarky, I usually go with. "If you're going to give me something for nothing, I prefer cash."

I do realize that the OP has moved on. I'm glad you're happy with your new barn.

In the mean time, I do pat, but I do it in certain context. I tend to rub and stroke, then when I'm all done with a "lovin" session and ready to move on, I give the horse a light pat as a loving, "let's move now."

I do prefer to have my horses desensitized to some pretty hard patting so that if I ever have to whack a fly, my horse doesn't flip out on me.


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