# keeping sand in the arena



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Railroad ties will be probably the best and most economical. They aren't going anywhere for a long time. Most what you find used around here. Also see them used a bit for terracing because they are treated in a manner that says they won't be rotting any time soon.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I was thinking that I would only have to do it once if I used them...

Could I get away with something like this? These are $10 cheaper.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Wea...VkYzICh2pPgvmEAQYBCABEgKTEPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Contact the local railroad...
I know by me CXT think the freight line is owned by is doing tie changeovers, pulling old and putting in new.
Old are eventually picked up and carted to the yard often on a railcar but you might be able to get them trackside, possibly for next to nothing.
Railroad ties are far better quality and permeated with preservatives...
They are not light to move so you need some tractor to lift and place and a sturdy trailer to transport or pay someone to do such a job for you.

Just a thought..
:runninghorse2:...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I actually am going to call CSX. Our neighbor got them for about $2 per tie about 10 years ago. The problem is they are about 400 lbs a piece and I need 60 so that would be a lot of hauling back and forth... not sure if it's really saving money once you add time and wear and tear. (depending on the location and how many we could get in the truck and trailer....)


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

farmpony84 said:


> I actually am going to call CSX. Our neighbor got them for about $2 per tie about 10 years ago. The problem is they are about 400 lbs a piece and I need 60 so that would be a lot of hauling back and forth... not sure if it's really saving money..



CSX...yup, them. :smile: _Could not think of their name although seen daily on train engines whizzing past..:icon_rolleyes:_


I was thinking more you pay someone to haul them for you with say a large flatbed tow truck that can dump in a destination location, then you need a farm tractor bucket loader with some heavy chain to drag move them but they don't move once placed very easily either.
A medium sized flatbed tow truck can carry about 25000 pounds on a 350/3500 1-ton chassis vehicle.
There are easily larger tow truck flatbeds available that can do the deed too...
:runninghorse2:...


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> I was thinking that I would only have to do it once if I used them...
> 
> Could I get away with something like this? These are $10 cheaper.
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Severe-Wea...VkYzICh2pPgvmEAQYBCABEgKTEPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds



they might be cheaper in the beginning, but long term RR ties if they are in good used condition will last a long time.

And your landscaping 3 in. X 4 in. timbers will have to be fastened down to the ground or they will move as they don't weight much. (with long spike nails or rebar) cut to 12 inches long driven through holes drilled in the timbers. The 3 inch measurement is the height.

Southern yellow pine landscape timber commonly used for garden steps, landscaped paths, planter boxes and garden beds
*For optimal performance apply a UV protective finish*
Actual size may vary
Use building code approved fasteners and hardware. *Hot-dipped galvanized, or stainless-steel are recommended*
No warranty

southern pine is a soft wood and even being treated will rot in a short time compared to RR ties.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm thinking I'm going to have to go with the railroad ties. Tractor supply says they do a dump in run (which he explained means at the curb). Um.. I don't have a curb and my driveway is 3/4 of a mile. It would make more sense to go down the driveway ESPECIALLY since there is no turn around unless you go down my drive... we are going to run to Lowes and maybe Home depot this weekend to talk to someone. 

I left a message with a lumber co that says they have used railroad ties. I did see a pile of them on the way in to work today. They replaced them so it's a stack of old ones... maybe about 10 of them?.... hmmmm........I wonder if I could rent a flat bed from home depot. Are they renting vehicles right now or is that a COVID no no?


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Don't know if they are or not. Too bad we aren't closer. I have a commercial flat bed end dump that I'd happily deliver them for you. The landscape timbers would rot out surprisingly fast compared to the RR ties. Get a weight on them and see how many your trailer can haul. There may also be someone around looking to make a little and would haul and unload for a reasonable amount.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I would speak to the RR first.
They might just load a truck for you and bring them, unload them with the grappling hooks on those trucks for a nominal cost.
The trucks we see occasionally rolling down the track are road use vehicles too...the wheels literally lift and away the truck rolls on roads leaving rail behind...pretty neat to watch. 

This is a company who rehomes old ties to new functions.
_https://www.nssccorp.com/products/_
CSX was one of the companies who contracts with this place for removal of old ties.

What I did read though is the ties usually have a bad side, just 1 side so for some in their projects a issue.
More importantly, they are laced with creosote and that makes them a environmental hazard to ever dispose of, so once you take them..there yours!!
I did see on that website new ties though...didn't go further and maybe since creosote is outlawed possibly some other preservative is used in its place and or new ones are untreated...
Make some inquiries...nothing to lose.
:runninghorse2:...


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I too would go for the RR ties (we call them sleepers) they need to go on their sides rather than flat to keep the sand in.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm going to try to research and see where I can get them from. We are going to run to TSC Saturday and price them - probably have them delivered. I have 2 loads of sand coming tomorrow - it's 525 per load is what husband said so we'll get the railroad ties and the 2 loads this pay period and then next month we'll get two more loads. 

I was driving home and all proud of myself because we have some trees that need to come home so I suggested we cut them long and use them but husband acted like I was some sort of deranged zombie.... So I guess that was a bad idea......


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Hehehe, my husband has a long history with trees. It is not a good one.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@farmpony84
Here is a link to Rural King RR ties.
https://www.ruralking.com/railroad-tie-grade-2-7-x-9-x-8



@QtrBel your comment about your husbands association with trees has peaked my curiosity being you made light of it. LOL

My neighbor dropped a tree right across his pickup truck bed one time. 

And talking about wood. I was helping another neighbor make a wood bed for his old truck and I was underneath drilling up through a 4 x 4 with a 2 x 4 he was holding down and he decided it was easier to sit on the 2 x 4. The spade bit was dull and I was really pushing to get it to drill and you should have seen him launch off of his sitting place when the drill bit broke through and drilled him right in the bee hind. LOL

.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

We used visqueen. It's a polythene and we got it 10 ml thick. It is a square pen. Quite large that we have sand in for colts and rehabs. We also put cattle through that pen frequently.

Dug a trench 8" deep, covered that, secured the visqueen to the corral poles. 

Gosh. It's been 20 years and it's still in good shape.

My daughters and I did it. The rolls were heavy, which caused laughter at times as we wallowed the rolls around.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Well, @*RegalCharm* to appease your curiosity - 



In showing off his knowledge at taking down trees when we were dating he pulled one right over on his truck because he wasn't careful about his estimation of the height the chain used to pull the tree a specific direction needed to be once cut. He was trying to avoid the fence line and he gets points for that as it didn't hit the fence but the insurance company wasn't pleased with the damage to the truck. 



Next incident was cleaning up after a hurricane and the tree he was taking down slid off the stump onto his foot, crushing it. A year off work. Lost part of the foot. Rehab was long. 



Another clean up after a storm and he wasn't watching where he put his hands, wasn't wearing gloves as usual and he transmitted poison ivy to parts that best remain unmentioned. He has serious reactions to it and this meant more than one trip to the ER. 



Next hurricane clean up he was pulling young, green trees and one got twisted into the bucket. He decided to push it up into the pile anyway and the tree acted like it was spring loaded and came back and hit him above the eye. If it weren't for the roll bar he'd have been decapitated. As it was you could put your first practically in the hole.When a neighbor and I later went to cut the tree that was bound up, as soon as the final cut was made, the force of releasing that tree shot the tractor back across the field. That was another long drawn out recovery. 



He's had ladders move with him on them with a chainsaw, limbs come back up and hit him (with protective gear at this point) when clearing small scrubby brush, just trees have it in for him. He basically has to have a spotter if he is working around them at all at this point. I wish he'd just hire it done and be done with it. 



None of it is really funny except in hindsight. The little things - like having to be driven to the ER because emergency response won't come this far out. We have to meet them at the nearest cross roads and by that time I can drive there faster. Him worried about ruining the seats in my mother's vehicle. Worried to the point he made my dad go back twice to get more towels and my dad arguing that he needed to call 911 even though we told him they wouldn't come that far out. Quicker just to drive straight tot he hospital. The Dr being so short she had what amounted to a mounting block in the ER just for her to use for exams and when that didn't work kneeling on the bed itself. 



If we didn't laugh about it we'd be crying. Too many close calls. 



I can't leave myself out as I have had a couple of run ins. The worst being when pregnant and horribly sick. I put the truck in reverse accidentally and hit the gas instead of the brake when I was trying to lean over to throw up outside the truck. 



My brother has put reflectors on all of his trees so I don't back into them. The first was necessary as the tree is partially in the drive. The rest are a joke but he loves to tell people that my back "woods" (backwards) radar is excellent at finding lost trees. 



My son found a saw mill he'd like to purchase and my husband is trying his darndest to make it happen. 



Scary thoughts. Very, scary thoughts.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@QtrBel

Sorry he has had to endure all those accidents. You should make up a certificate signed by the local ER Staff forbidding him to own a chainsaw.
And I know those accidents could have been a lot worse and glad they were not.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

@QtrBel - You need to take his chainsaw away! We had a friend come by to chop wood when we just built our house ( a cop) and he ended up almost cutting his thumb off. And of course it was his gun hand. Luckily he healed well but his wife took his chainsaw away after that....


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

i gather 'railway ties' are what we call 'sleepers' about 4" x 8" hardwood? They'd be nice, but vastly more exxy here, and poss no more long lived than 2" wide treated pine or such. 

I bet the local ponyclub will be doing some serious edging around their arenas when they next get around to maintenance - it's on the riverflats & after the last flood, there are all these nearly 1' deep drifts of lovely sand about the place... & none left in the arena!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

QtrBel has your hubby been on the videos 'Idiots with Chainsaws?' 

With the arena you will find that sand moves especially around the outside track and needs pulling back in which is hard work! 

Suggestion is that once you have all the sand in that you add rubber chippings, the best are from car door/ window surrounds, about 4-6" in length. This stops the sand from moving so little maintainence is needed and gives a great giving surface. Even if you just used it on the outside track it would save you a lot of energy!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

All sharp objects more like it. Son has only just recently been allowed unsupervised "work" with both his dad and grandad. They gave the boy an axe at 4y.o. and he came home with the top of his boot cut through. That made me madder than a wet hornet and resulted in grandad only seeing him supervised by me and dad not being allowed to have him out with him when working around the property. Their brain cells seem to vacate the premises when sharp objects are introduced. Had I known about that website perhaps putting cameras out would have meant his own episode.

Back to containing the sand...

The RR ties are tall enough that loss is minimal if placed on top of the ground once leveled. What I have seen done is that at the end that is not the "open" end the ties that would meet the corner are instead boards laid so height is the same and they are kept in place with keepers on the ends of the ties they butt up to. Makes grooming the ring so much easier.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Well... it rained today so we didn't finish the leveling and whatever else we were doing (I'm just the foreman... husband is the crew)...

We still need the railroad ties.... I have to work tomorrow... I have to actually take a shower and drive to work. And I have to be nice to people. And I have to Adult. 

but maybe when I get home the leveling will be done and we can do our TSC run and order the ties....

Maybe?


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@farmpony84 that is going to be a very nice arena. Your crew is doing a good job. He should get a bonus when it is finished. :smile: 


(I mean Money, what were you thinking I meant?).


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

@RegalCharm - yeah... that bonus - I do hear about that bonus... often. Men!

It rained all night and halfway through today! There won't be any leveling done today


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Alright guys. 60 railroad ties are set for deliver next Saturday. It was $939.00

I don't think that's too bad. I may need another load of sand but we will wait and see....


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Sounds like you're well on your way to an arena.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

My railroad ties are here! My railroad ties are here!!!

I'm going to have a real ring! I'm gonna be a real horsey girl!

Yeah me!!!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Jumping for joy with you! So glad they've been delivered! Hooray! Hooray! 

It seems to be a grand slam week! So for for most I know things are moving in the right direction.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Lowes has these white plastic-like boards at different widths and lengths. 
I will use those when I eventually make my mini arena.
I forget how much they cost and idk how much rail road ties cost, but I do know the boards are longer and if I'm remembering it right, they're also taller. They even have some flex, in case you have light curves.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

secuono said:


> Lowes has these white plastic-like boards at different widths and lengths.
> I will use those when I eventually make my mini arena.
> I forget how much they cost and idk how much rail road ties cost, but I do know the boards are longer and if I'm remembering it right, they're also taller. They even have some flex, in case you have light curves.


Hurry up so we can compare rings!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Well... I don't think I have enough sand. I'll probably have to order 2 more loads. The ring isn't as big as I thought it was going to be either. (Not complaining - it's plenty big). I think husband thought it was going to be 150x85 or so... it's about 140 x 80 I think. So I think I ordered too many railroad ties which actually will be perfect because we cut the hill and we have to do a retaining wall so we can use those. I bought 10 rose bushes today to go at the top of that retaining wall. I hope I bought enough....

I think we'll be ready to lay the ties in about 2 days. Husband is still leveling and stuff. I can really feel the slope right now because Cloud is so green he speeds up where it's not quite even. Riley can maintain the same pace so it's not a bad slope but enough....


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Well... It's starting to look like an arena! I think we are going to start laying the railroad ties tomorrow. We do have to figure out a retaining wall. Debating on railroad ties or stacking stones....


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Looks great!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

almost there!


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

So it is looking good. Where are the light poles going so you can ride at night.? :smile:


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I'm thi ki g a cool shady spot to ride with all of the trees. Protected from wind too I suspect. Jealous here.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

@RegalCharm electricity is on the list. I'm not sure we will pull it off anytime soon - I mean - I've only been waiting about 15 years for that and running water. As it is the hose comes from the house so I think we have about 800 feet of hose running down the hill to the barn.
@QtrBel it is cool and shady. That wasn't supposed to be the spot for the ring originally. It was supposed to go in the top part of the pasture just behind the paddocks but I was going to have to loose too much pasture to do it. The ring is a lot smaller then originally planned but honestly - I'm the only one that rides so it's not like I need a lot of space. I'll probably only use a small portion of the one we are building as it is....


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

That is why my riding area, can't call it an arena, doubles as an isolation, time out, injured, not so extra grassy spot. It was that or take out the top half of the circular drive that keeps large trucks out of the pasture.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

We put millings in my aisle...


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

If you get a roller or rent a tamper that will pack down pretty good and be almost like a concrete isle.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

He was still shoveling the stuff in with the tractor when I took the picture so he hadn't gotten to the smooth yet. I was irritated with him for doing it because I thought it was going to be crap. I didn't realize it's like asphalt when it's done.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

We haven't put the rose bushes in the ground yet because husband wants to dig that walkway out more to force the water to run through it when it rains. He still needs to do a little more grading on the hill and then manure and grass seed but aren't those roses pretty???!

AND it poured last night but guess who got to ride?! This girl! My sand held! The railroad times did their jobs!!! I do need at least 2 more loads though....


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Love it!


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

Nice Job on the arena. Get some blue roses and then it will be patriotic.


A blue rose is a flower of the genus Rosa (family Rosaceae) that presents blue-to-violet pigmentation instead of the more common red, white, or yellow. Blue roses are often used to symbolise secret or unattainable love. However, because of genetic limitations, they do not exist in nature. In 2004, researchers used genetic modification to create roses that contain the blue pigment delphinidin.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> Well... it rained today so we didn't finish the leveling and whatever else we were doing (I'm just the foreman... husband is the crew)...
> 
> We still need the railroad ties.... I have to work tomorrow... I have to actually take a shower and drive to work. And I have to be nice to people. And I have to Adult.
> 
> ...


Can I ask what's being used to level?
We're getting our first tractor later this week w/a bucket loader. I need to level some spots for storage buildings & then the arena, but I have no clue as to what I'll be doing. Lol


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> Hurry up so we can compare rings!


Gotta learn how to run a tractor first!
I have to find a new place for the arena, where pen is now, hay sheds will go. I just hope I don't make a big pit & mess while trying to level an area out...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

@secuono Husband was a truck driver/heavy equipment operator before he went the law enforcement route so he is pretty good at all this stuff. He's just using the bucket and a box scraper. I think he pretty much eye balled it. I don't recall seeing him out here with anything but a tape measure.

It took a long time because the tractor is only a 4300. We really need something just a little bit bigger...


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_Your ring is looking fantastic farmpony, *absolutely fantastic*._
So is the beautifying landscaping work now underway.
Your hubby is very talented to do such a project for you. 



secuono said:


> Can I ask what's being used to level?
> We're getting our first tractor later this week w/a bucket loader. I need to level some spots for storage buildings & then the arena, but I have no clue as to what I'll be doing. Lol



Depending upon the size of the tractor you purchased, it can limit you in what you can or can't do with a project such as this.
I know you want to do all by yourself but it is very easy to make what is not a problem a disaster.
It seriously might be worth it to hire a grading contractor for a afternoon and turn him loose not just leveling but grading with a slight pitch so water does run-off not sit and pool. 

Farmpony's husband did a fantastic job or she would not have evidence of water running off her new ring in a controlled manner.
It is a art to run a tractor like that...to see the grade level, highs & lows and make the slight pitch to run the water the direction wanted and needed with the rest of the surrounding land all working together to not flood you.
Farmpony's husband she said was a heavy equipment operator, a pro in prior employment...and it shows.

We have a decent sized tractor with bucket...and a box blade.
There is a art to using the box blade and not digging holes and ruining the grade...
An art I _don't_ have. :| _Be very careful.._
I _can_ use my bucket though to grade and put pitch or not, reduce crowns, fill low spots...and it is a great wheelbarrow for mucking my stalls too 

My husband can use the box blade. He does better than I for sure, but not great. 
He rather use the bucket loader though. 
He has a eye to see the land and know what to fix too...and more importantly how to fix it.
If I have a standing water problem after heavy rains...he fixes it while I'm doing other chores around the barn area. 
I point out the problem area if he not see it, he goes and does the fixing having a great time moving dirt around and making a mess that in the end is a great looking finished job.

I know there are several guys around us who do the kind of work you need done as farmpony did...
They will come to see what you want done, tell you what & how much in materials are needed to get on hand first then they will return.
The day they come it is early morning arrival and they work till done...
Their machines sing and work is done quickly, efficiently and much is finished in a days time, the actual moving of, removing of and placing in different locations the dirt used.
The guys by me, professional grading companies will do the actual grading for $300... and it is done.
To me, that is money well spent to get my project accomplished...

In all honesty, our box blade has been used 3x in 5 years of owning it.
So seldom used I want to sell it as it takes up space.
There is a secret to using the box blade...one you must be taught by someone who knows and understands them to use correctly, efficiently and expertly.
A secret no one has taught us so to me a waste of money sitting I look at. :|
If I had realized how much our bucket loader could do, I would _never_ of bought the box blade but instead bought an auger you use every time to do fencing projects. 
We now bought an auger and my back is so grateful! :smile:
Live and learn. 
:runninghorse2:...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I can only use the box scraper for very minor things. I put it to close to the ground or two high off the ground and I make what kind of looks like an angry ocean - only it's made out of dirt...

I can fill the tractor bucket with dirt or manure until the pile I'm working with gets too close to the ground - then I make little ponds...

I don't have the tractor magic either...


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Hlg you put a laser light on your horses bridle and go for it. We had so much fun doing that at draft demonstrations with a horse drawn grader....


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Thanks.

It's a YT359C.

I won't be buying attachments that won't be regularly used, so no box scraper.
I'll have to see how much it'll cost & then convince DH to just hire instead. He'll probably want to make a mess of it before agreeing, though....men...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

We use our box scraper the most of all our attachments.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Your husband needs to come give my husband and I lessons in how to concerning that box blade...


Many have them and use them, so know they are great to have...
For me though, not knowing what I'm doing is a big problem... 

That makes it a saleable item for non-use at this residence..:frown_color:
:runninghorse2:...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

we almost never use the disks, we do use the post hole digger and the bush hog but since we bought our zero turn we almost never use the bush hog. He has a few attachments that I don't even know what they are for or why we have them... maybe they came with the tractor? He never uses the hay baler anymore. it's so old and rusted that I'm tempted to pull it out and set it at the top of the driveway and plant flowers in it! LOL....


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

I wouldn't use it after this. At least, I hope not.
Tractor is for hay & brushhogging, then a tiny bit for future post hole digging. And digging out my koi pond in a few years. 

Contacted a few ppl for quotes, so we'll see what happens.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Koi pond! I've been BEGGING for one of those!!!!


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> Koi pond! I've been BEGGING for one of those!!!!


Real cold spring, so looking a bit cruddy this year-


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I WANT IT!!!!

I keep begging husband for one. I would like to put it right off the front porch so I can sit in my rocking chair and watch my fishies... He's insisting on building a real pond first... Grumble grr....


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> I WANT IT!!!!
> 
> I keep begging husband for one. I would like to put it right off the front porch so I can sit in my rocking chair and watch my fishies... He's insisting on building a real pond first... Grumble grr....


Hmm, a "real pond" that happens to have a single koi mixed in, perhaps?? Lol
Technically, it is possible to get koi, bluegill & other critters in a pond that you added nothing but water to. Birds transfer plants regularly and I've heard of many stories of koi owners finding goldfish or wild fish in their ponds!
I've never been able to grow cultivated fairy moss through winter until I have up and wildlife brought wild fairy moss to my pond!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

No - he wants a pond with the horses. we have a place that would be perfect for one and then we'll just go down to the river and catch catfish and blue gills for it.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> No - he wants a pond with the horses. we have a place that would be perfect for one and then we'll just go down to the river and catch catfish and blue gills for it.


:thumbsup:

Here's some more pictures of my waterpuppies to tie you over with.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I WANT. I wonder if the bald eagles and the blue herrings will be a problem?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I know my SIL has/had a Koi pond where we use to live...
Raccoons, hawks and a passing heron had a feast often. No eagles did we deal with.

They lost small turtles too but not sure what happened to those...crawl away or taken IDK.
:runninghorse2:...


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Got the first estimate today, $1,200 & 2 days or less. 
Who said $300?? Where do you live?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Is that cost including materials needed or just the use of land clearing, moving equipment and operator?




It was me who said that amount...
That is the cost my friend paid to clear and make a dirt arena...she supplied material though and did the fence/barrier herself around it.
Think her "arena" is 50 or 60' x 120 or 150'.
By many standards, not large.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> I WANT. I wonder if the bald eagles and the blue herrings will be a problem?


I keep mine netted because of king fishers & the neighborhood heron. 
***** haven't bothered them...yet. But they are why I no longer keep birds or rabbits.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

If you rent the backhoe it should only cost you about 3 or 400 per day. You don't need a CDL for it.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

horselovinguy said:


> Is that cost including materials needed or just the use of land clearing, moving equipment and operator?
> 
> It was me who said that amount...
> That is the cost my friend paid to clear and make a dirt arena...she supplied material though and did the fence/barrier herself around it.
> ...


He brings his own equipment to dig out dirt to be level, with 2° slope for drainage and use removed dirt to make a berm of sorts to redirect water around and away. 
Said he works for a company, but used to do arenas himself before for years and he still does side projects like this one.


I just got the second quote...lol, and I thought 1,200 to 1,500 was high...
This one will use dirt from one of my hills to add to the area I want level and compact it. 3 to 6 days. Seven thousand...7k!! $7,000
No.

Yeah, idk if I want to bother with more quotes...
I probably should of posted pics of the area, one corner to the opposite diagonal one is at least a 3ft lower.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

That is significant work needing done and some hefty equipment brought in to do it.
3' difference in elevation needing leveled, pitched and drainage correctly channeled but not ruts made...
Excuse for saying it this way but you need a real professional behind the controls of those excavation machines.
This is not a job someone fooling around with a 50HP farm tractor is going to easily do...
You _will_ kill your tractor trying to do the job... 

Backhoes are commonly 80-90 HP for the mid-size machines or larger and very different gear ratio.
I don't know much about bobcats but they can also do this kind of work...what they are made for.
You need to move tonnage of material, large tonnage and know where to place it, how to place it reading the sextant and knowledge of how to use it to make this right or forever have massive headaches.
Sounds like you have raw materials available from one spot to another spot on the property...

I would be checking those references a bit deeper into work done and satisfied customers.
If it checks out sign on the dotted contract line...
Signature at signing.
A date to start the work given...on that day when he arrives he gets 1/4 in a check = $300
At end of the job he gets balance of the money owed..._not till then_ another penny though so you are assured he will finish the job and you are satisfied.
I don't give 50/50 on jobs cause the incentive is not as great to do the work as promised.
Since he is not supplying materials he doesn't need more...
But with what you now say needs done to the land...this is not just spreading some dirt around but major remodeling of the ground and drainage of the land and surrounding areas of it too.
I offer you good luck but yea, that $1200 looks pretty sweet a deal.
:runninghorse2:...


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

horselovinguy said:


> That is significant work needing done and some hefty equipment brought in to do it.
> 3' difference in elevation needing leveled, pitched and drainage correctly channeled but not ruts made...
> Excuse for saying it this way but you need a real professional behind the controls of those excavation machines.
> This is not a job someone fooling around with a 50HP farm tractor is going to easily do...
> ...


Not worth it to dump 7k into unnecessary dirt leveling.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

You can rent a dozer for half that. We rented a dozer when we built our place and I think it was less than that for the 3 days that we had it. We leveled and dug the basement out.

I would just do the best you can with what you have. It's not like you have to rush is it?


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

First guy is a scammer, according to one person, which is enough for me to bow out.
Have more estimates in the works. 
I happened to look back on my barn fixing recommendation post and saw the warning from 14wks ago.
FB sucks, but is also wonderful at the same time.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> You can rent a dozer for half that. We rented a dozer when we built our place and I think it was less than that for the 3 days that we had it. We leveled and dug the basement out.
> 
> I would just do the best you can with what you have. It's not like you have to rush is it?


I feel like I hijacked the thread...Sorry!

There's two spots to do, one is the arena, which doesn't need to be done at all. The other is the spot for the new hay building. I can't order the building until it has level ground to sit on. I'll also be making my own hay, so equipment will sit in the front section of the building. 

Found someone & waiting on their return. I'll update once its finished to limit my intrusion.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think I might have seen your ad looking for someone on FB. I don't mind that you move into this thread! I can't wait to see your finished project. I still need two more loads of sand to finish mine and we need to build a drag. I'm getting grass sprouting up in the sand already!!! It's killing me!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

farmpony84 said:


> I still need two more loads of sand to finish mine and we need to build a drag. I'm getting grass sprouting up in the sand already!!! It's killing me!



Chain link fence scrap..


Fence height between 4 - 6' and make the length about the same size...
Length of chain and piece of old pipe to thread across the "top" section of the drag you're constructing.
Add 3 - 4 large cement blocks for weight...
Adjust the chain length according to what your drag vehicle needs...
All done and if anything like my home all the materials are readily available and were free to resource.


Happy dragging.
:runninghorse2:...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

horselovinguy said:


> Chain link fence scrap..
> 
> 
> Fence height between 4 - 6' and make the length about the same size...
> ...


We have the chain link already (it's from an old dog run). We have weight for it also. I'll just pull it behind the rhino. I have been using a people rake but the grass sprouts fast. Grumble.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Can you put down a weed/grass preventer with a spreader?
Would at least slow down the growth but won't stop it completely either.
:runninghorse2:....


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

horselovinguy said:


> Can you put down a weed/grass preventer with a spreader?
> Would at least slow down the growth but won't stop it completely either.
> :runninghorse2:....


I have been spraying it. The back part of the ring is growing grass because I don't have the sand there but the part that has the sand - I'm spraying with weed killer and using my hand rake for now. I think once I get my drag it will be fine. I took the rhino out and drove circles around it and kicked a lot of it out. I didn't do rooster tails or anything.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> I think I might have seen your ad looking for someone on FB. I don't mind that you move into this thread! I can't wait to see your finished project. I still need two more loads of sand to finish mine and we need to build a drag. I'm getting grass sprouting up in the sand already!!! It's killing me!


:bowwdown:

Also, what state are you in?? 👀


I need to figure out a decent, temporary solution for the 4ft tall edge...
Gravel/dust mix won't arrive until the 24th of next month. Yikes! I'll look around to order more elsewhere for the arena section. Will gravel & stone dust work as a base, or does it need to be just the dust, then the sand later on?


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Two to three loads of stone dust arrive tomorrow. Not sure I have enough for 3 loads, but it'll be far easier to spread with three strips than two.
Still need to finish leveling the gravel mix...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

It looks awesome! And bigger than mine. Rude!


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> It looks awesome! And bigger than mine. Rude!


Haha, I bet yours is better made!

Mine has a current useable size of 58 × 102 feet. Last 2ft angles off and is too iffy to use now. Will try to find dirt elsewhere to continue building up that raw edge that has no retaining wall.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

:happydance:
Oh yeah! Gonna try to even it out tomorrow with the tiny riding mower, then see what my boy thinks of it!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

that's where I screwed up. I should have put blue stone down first. I have grass popping up all over my ring. I need to order a drag. Husband is taking too long to build one. We just have so many projects going on...


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Dragging it around takes forever to flatten anything. It's pretty to look at, though.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Not a ton of progress, been having a little war with my sheep...
There will be round pen panels up around the ring, but the suckers belly crawl under, so I needed a mesh fence to keep them from using it as a ginormous litterbox!
Will add white tape for visibility, for now, I'll be using a wee kitty scooper to clean my dust...😭
The gate was moved as well, so that the track could still go around.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

It looks great though! Husband made me a drag too. What a difference it makes! It's not pretty but it does the job. I'll have to take a picture of it tomorrow. (Too lazy to walk down to the barn again tonight. It looks kind of *******-y but it's all good!


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> It looks great though! Husband made me a drag too. What a difference it makes! It's not pretty but it does the job. I'll have to take a picture of it tomorrow. (Too lazy to walk down to the barn again tonight. It looks kind of *******-y but it's all good!


 I need something with the little teeth to "fluff" it back up.

I got lights up & one wall of panels. Looks more prim n proper now! But still long from done.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

So...August has been nothing but rain & flood watch...Every. Single. Day. 
I'm very over it. 
My arena is having big troubles...
Ruts, water erosion is an extremely scary thing. I've always known, but you see it in action on "fast forward" with a new arena w/no grass!
Hoping to have it fixed soon, as soon as I can line it up, but until then, I'm in a constant state of panic...And if its raining, I'm not in the building, I'm off on my own trying not to think of the erosion...ugh.
Silver lining time!
Starts off sounding bad, though.
My storage building was approved long ago, but they failed to see the payment, so I've been waiting until now. Got it in hand, finally, but it's good it's late! If I had the building ordered & installed in the last 2 weeks, it'd of flooded & dirt behind it couldn't be adjusted.
Pictures after everything is fixed, I'm too embarrassed right now. 

OP, how's your arena?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Awesome, I found this post! Through the years I have had problems with sand running out of my arena. I think I solved it by building up a berm on the low side because it does have a gentle slope, I made a few kick out drains . As you did farm, I was wondering about putting railroad ties or something to that effect to keep it in on the low side but I think this berm works. I'm having a half a dozen dump truck falls of washed sand delivered in a few days, so we'll see. There's already a thin layer of sand on it however it's not the good washed stuff.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

The rain has come in with a vengeance. my brother borrowed the tractor so I have some grass growing in the arena but it's not bad. If he ever returns it then I'll be able to drag the grass out with the rake. The fence drag husband made needs more teeth I think, it just spreads the sand. I Never got my retaining wall up so some of the virginia clay has run into the arena but I think I'm going to be ok with that. I'll have to spread it and then order about 4 loads of sand to finish it out. I want to put a layer of millings down before adding the sand.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Awesome, I found this post! Through the years I have had problems with sand running out of my arena. I think I solved it by building up a berm on the low side because it does have a gentle slope, I made a few kick out drains . As you did farm, I was wondering about putting railroad ties or something to that effect to keep it in on the low side but I think this berm works. I'm having a half a dozen dump truck loads of washed sand delivered in a few days, so we'll see. There's already a thin layer of sand on it however it's not the good washed stuff. So fancy, I might have to whitewash the rails again, lol!


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Took everything down & had someone else come out to try & get the water to go around. Another 19tons of stone dust spread out, too.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Did you put drain tiles in? Mine is draining pretty decent but my sink hole is coming back so I think we need drain tiles to divert the water.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> Did you put drain tiles in? Mine is draining pretty decent but my sink hole is coming back so I think we need drain tiles to divert the water.


Everyone tells me not to because they'll get clogged in a few years.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I dug several trenches throughout my arena, about 8 inches deep and did several kick out drains. We covered it back up with road mulch. Before the sand was delivered we had a big downpour. Oh boy, the drains were working! It was running rivers out those drains, and it wasn't pooling at the lower end of my arena where it usually did when I just had a couple of kick outs. Since I've had the sand in there, we've had rain twice, and within an hour of a downpour, the arena is dry and I've noticed no sand lost at all, yay! In fact the next day I was sprinkling the arena because it was a little dusty.

One of the drains through the berm


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Oops, forgot to say, I filled the trenches with drain Rock then put the road mulch on top.


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