# Your favorite GPS for the trail



## grayshell38

I have been wanting to start keeping track of my riding this year and am also interested in making maps of where I have ridden. What are your favorite brands of GPS for trail/endurance riding, and why?


----------



## QOS

For the money, you almost can't been a Garmin eTrex Venture HC. I have it set to tell me speed, miles, average speed, total time, what time it is etc. on one page. Another tells me my heading, my bearing, etc. and makes a track of the trail I am going on and of course, a compass. I can mark waypoints an track to it, etc. 

The Garmin Dakota 20 is a little fancier than mine with a touch screen feature which is nice and has a few more features. I think its battery lasts quiet a bit longer which is very nice!

I have a blast with mine and don't ride without it.


----------



## Tianimalz

.... I was not even aware people took GPS' on the trail :lol: wow am I behind on the times.


----------



## Celeste

I also use a Garmin eTrex Venture HC. I just got it for Christmas, but I have been having fun keeping up with miles.


----------



## QOS

The Dakota also will let you use a heart monitor which is pretty darn cool. I have a heart monitor but it is separate. I would like to have the Garmin Forerunner 305 (I think that is correct). They are pretty darn cool.


----------



## Celeste

One think that I like about my Garmin eTrex Venture HC is that it comes with software that you put on your computer. It is called mapsource. Anyway, you upload data from the GPS to your computer. Then you can open your track in Google Earth. Maybe I am a bit geeky, but it really entertains me to look at my ride on a Google Earth map. 

My sister has been working on developing maps of some federal land (U.S. Forest Service land) for her work. There are a bunch of horse trail riders that she has working to help her. They record the locations of significant things that they find on their rides and she can use these in the maps. As part of her work, she was able to go on a 14 mile trail ride with them to check the accuracy of some of their data. Tough job, but somebody's got to do it..........


----------



## gunslinger

I actually have two hand helds, A garmin E-Trex Legend Hcx, and a Garmin 60 Csx.

I like the size of the Legend, and agree with the others, the E-Trex series is a good place to start.

Need maps?

gpsfiledepot.com

Free topo's, and they work great.


----------



## Celeste

Cool link. I haven't been riding anywhere that I don't know the way, but maybe I'll get to eventually.


----------



## gunslinger

Celeste said:


> Cool link. I haven't been riding anywhere that I don't know the way, but maybe I'll get to eventually.


Thats the perfect place to learn the machine.

Use it in a place you know and learn to understand it.


----------



## usandpets

I used a Garmin eTrex legend once. It worked ok. The only main problem i had was when you went into a lower area or an area with thick tree cover and it lost it's tracking signal. I was only borrowing it for the day but I did like how simple it was to use, once I figured it out.


----------



## gunslinger

The newer e-trex's have a different chipset and are much improved over the older ones. 

Prior to the two I have now, I had the old blue etrex legend.

It often lost signal in heavy cover, but seldom, if ever, loose signal on either of the two I've mentioned.

However, I still, take a paper map and compass when riding in the wilderness area or National forest.


----------



## QOS

I met a lady last weekend that had an old eTrex and she said it would lose signal in the woods. I have never lost signal anywhere thank God!


----------



## grayshell38

Thanks for all the info. guys! I'm definitely going to research a bit more and maybe find one to play with before I make a definitive choice. Yay! So excited!


----------



## loveduffy

this is good to know


----------



## trailhorserider

QOS said:


> I met a lady last weekend that had an old eTrex and she said it would lose signal in the woods. I have never lost signal anywhere thank God!


I have an old Garmin eTrex Venture and I loose signals frequently too. Sometimes I think it's the woods, other times I think it's the mountains.

There is one trail up here that is notorious for my GPS not being able to keep a signal on. It is both wooded and surrounded by mountains. My theory is that it takes a certain number of satellites to pinpoint it's location, so if the mountains or trees or whatever are blocking some of the signals it can't pinpoint it's location. I don't know how true that is, but that's my theory anyway!

I do love my GPS, although many times I forget to turn it on at the start of a ride. Or I turn it on and forget to reset the tracking information. But it does give me a lot of confidence to go cross country and explore and be able to find my way back to the trailer. So I really find it a valuable tool. Someday I should get a more modern one though.


----------



## QOS

Trailhorserider, the lady said her eTrex was about 6 years old! I showed her mine and she said she might look into getting a new one. I do not live in a mountainous area but we do ride at a place that has hills and heavy tree coverage. I have never noticed losing satellites. Hummm...next time we ride there I am going to check it when we are down in the deepest places.


----------



## Celeste

Mine never totally loses signal, but when I put the track on a map in my computer at home, I notice that the satellite readings are pretty far apart when I am deep in the woods. I can always tell where I am though. Then again, I haven't tried it in places that I can get lost.


----------



## QOS

We used them weekend before last in the deep places and were navigating. I never had it tell me no signal so I am assuming all was good. How do you see how far apart the satellite reading are Celeste?


----------



## Celeste

On the computer program, it shows little squares where a reading was on the map. Each of this is a number.


----------



## QOS

What program are you uploading it to?


----------



## Celeste

I think it is called map quest. It came on a CD with the GPS.


----------



## Joe4d

I am figuring out the garmin foretrex 301, Finally figured out how to upload to google maps and overly your route, all fine and dandy once you get home, still have no idea how to use the thing to actually get back home to begin with. But it is working as a speed/ distance log.


----------



## QOS

Joe, do those models do trails? I have a page on mine where I can see bearing and heading and that is how you navigate with them. It has been a blast learning!


----------



## Joe4d

yeh I got a little dude with dotted lines, but the screen is so small I dont see it doing much good. If I set a waypoint I can navigate as the crow flys back to the waypoint. Somehow its sposed to do backtrack. Like I said NO FRIKKING DIRECTIONS ! Thats ok pretty much all I need is distance and average speed.


----------



## gunslinger

Okay, here's how I like to use mine.

Buy a paper topo or Nat geo trails illustrated. The trails illustrated has grid lines based on Universal transerse Mercator or UTM. UTM is similar to what the military uses to call in an artillery barrage and used with the gps can be a very accurate positioning system.

So set the gps to UTM, and the datum to what the topo is drawn to, usually NAD27.

UTM is a metric grid, and based on 1000 meter by 1000 meter grid.

I take the coordinates in UTM and then place myself on map using the coordinates and the grid system.

Easy. Much, much easier than using lat/long.

Using the UTM/MGRS map coordinate system

All I really want from my gps is the coordinates. Every thing else is just nice features.


----------



## QOS

Joe, what we did was follow the trails - some getting off the trails and just going as the crow flies but a lot of following trails and sometimes going in the wrong direction as the trails went in a wide arc to go around deep places but we got there eventually. Learned a BUNCH by just going!


----------



## QOS

Joe, what we did was follow the trails - some getting off the trails and just going as the crow flies but a lot of following trails and sometimes going in the wrong direction as the trails went in a wide arc to go around deep places but we got there eventually. Learned a BUNCH by just going!


----------



## Celeste

The software that I used to record tracks that I have been on is called MapSource. It came with the Garmin.


----------



## QOS

Ok... I am going to check out MapSource. I use Connect.Garmin, Basecamp and EveryTrail.


----------



## Celeste

As far as I know, I don't have those programs. I just put the software that was in the box on my computer.


----------



## Joe4d

I finally got onto My connect with garmin, pretty cool having my prior routes overlayed on google maps. Not sure why soem of my rides are saved and others are not. To bad I dotn have my sandhills ride saved in there.


----------



## QOS

connect.garmin is pretty darn cool. I like the different information it gives.


----------



## Celeste

I haven't used connect.garmin, but it sounds like it is pretty much the same deal as the program I am using.


----------



## gunslinger

You can download map source off of gpsfiledepot.com


----------



## Joe4d

yeh connect is great, after the rescue party finds you and you finally get home you can plug in your gps do an upload and see where you actually where, when you swore the parking lot was just over this hill.


----------



## Trails

Joe4d said:


> yeh connect is great, after the rescue party finds you and you finally get home you can plug in your gps do an upload and see where you actually where, when you swore the parking lot was just over this hill.


Oh my! that was good!


----------



## QOS

hhahaha that is too funny Joe!!!!


----------



## Joe4d

yeh my GPS points due west and tells me it is 54 degrees. Of course no directions on how to calibrate compass, maybe I have to be moving to get an actual reading. Hey it's great for telling me where I was all day once I get home, but so far worthless on telling me how to find the house.


----------



## QOS

Joe, call Garmin. They are the nicest people to deal with and are more than happy to walk you through steps on how to use your particular Garmin. Ask them and they will tell you! None of that "I can only help you for 10 minutes" baloney and there is not charge to talk to them.

I have learned how to do all kinds of stuff on my own but learned a ton from them or my friend called them and she learned from them and taught me. 

Give it a whirl and start enjoying that Garmin!


----------



## Joe4d

but then I would loose out on all the snarky comments.


----------



## QOS

well, sometimes that is just the price you will have to pay...no snarky come-backs to the snarky remarks....but then you will be the GPS King and save the snarky folks for getting their butts lost at sundown! (in the winter, in a snowstorm - with rain - a limping horse - and a sore backside - can we add anymore to that list and yes, I know it will not be raining if it is snowing so how about a sleet storm - that would not be fun)


----------



## gunslinger

Mine has been quite useful in the mountains of SE Tennessee/N. Georgia.

I'm a map junkie too, and still take a map and compass.


----------



## QOS

gunslinger - I hope to get to the point where I can do that. I do have a compass and hope to learn to use it correctly.

I did have to learn to use one years ago when I took a certification in Scuba Diving. We had to navigate with a compass underwater. I have a very good sense of direction on roads but underwater - not so much!


----------



## mildot

trailhorserider said:


> My theory is that it takes a certain number of satellites to pinpoint it's location, so if the mountains or trees or whatever are blocking some of the signals it can't pinpoint it's location. I don't know how true that is, but that's my theory anyway!


Your theory is correct. That's exactly how GPS works (in a very basic sense). A GPS receiver needs three satelites in view to get a 2D (latitude and longitude) position and four to get lat, lon, and altitude.


----------



## mildot

I learned to navigate boats in HS back before GPS even existed, when its predecessor system (NAVSAT) only could fix your position two or three times per 24 hr period, and where Loran signals did not exist. I later became a Navy officer and was in charge of the navigation division on one of the ships I served. I'm also an FAA certificated airman with an instrument rating. Plus I've done lots of wilderness navigation out backpacking and ski mountaineering in the Cascades.

In short, I've been navigating on land, at sea, and in the air for virtually all of my adult life.

Of all that I've read on this thread, I'd have to agree with gunslinger the most. GPS and other electronic navaids are backups. A map and compass are primary. In fact, it would be wicked smart to plot your GPS position on the map at 30 to 60 minute intervals depending on your speed along with the time of the navigational fix.


----------



## gunslinger

Yes Mildot, I agree.

The first thing I want to know is "where am I"?

This goes hand in hand with "am I where I think I should be"?

Sure, I love the track log, and down load it to my computer, but the primary function of my gps is to give me a location, which I then place on my map.

If you want to learn to navigate effectively with the GPS, study and understand UTM. The meter system works very well as it's easy to work with when trying to pin point a location.
Buy paper topo maps of the area you're going to ride in. If the UTM grid isn't on the map then take a pencil and straight edge and grid the map.

Map and compass are more problematic in the steep mountains as it's difficult to find a reference in the bottoms, yet easier on the peaks.

I've ran into several people in the Cohutta's over the years who had no clue where they were, or how to get to where the wanted to be.

One person, left Dally Gap on the east side of the wilderness area and was going to make a loop, connecting to penitentiary branch trail, and back to Dally Gap.

He was actually at Alaculsy, on the west side of the wilderness area, 17 miles from where he wanted to be. When I showed him where he was, he didn't want to believe me. 

He had nothing but a water bottle.


----------



## mildot

gunslinger said:


> One person, left Dally Gap on the east side of the wilderness area and was going to make a loop, connecting to penitentiary branch trail, and back to Dally Gap.
> 
> He was actually at Alaculsy, on the west side of the wilderness area, 17 miles from where he wanted to be. When I showed him where he was, he didn't want to believe me.
> 
> He had nothing but a water bottle.


Darwin smiles on from above at them........:lol:


----------



## gunslinger

mildot said:


> Darwin smiles on from above at them........:lol:


This was back in November. I asked him if he believed in Santa Clause....when he said yes, I handed him my trails illustrated map and wished him a merry christmas.

It was 17 miles by trail, with 40 river crossings, and all up hill, or a hour and a half by car to get back to Dally Gap. I had the horses and trailer so I really couldn't take him.

Hope he found a ride, but rides in that area are scarce.


----------



## mildot

gunslinger said:


> This was back in November. I asked him if he believed in Santa Clause....when he said yes, I handed him my trails illustrated map and wished him a merry christmas.
> 
> It was 17 miles by trail, with 40 river crossings, and all up hill, or a hour and a half by car to get back to Dally Gap. I had the horses and trailer so I really couldn't take him.
> 
> Hope he found a ride, but rides in that area are scarce.


Wow, just wow.........


----------



## Celeste

My GPS has been saying weird things like that my moving average was greater than my maximum speed. Today it worked better I think. The numbers were more logical. Could it be that since I have been going very slow to wait for a timid rider that it has not been accurate? Today my horse spooked and bolted a couple of times making my maximum speed a bit higher. The only other thing that I did different was that I had the GPS in my saddle bag instead of in my jacket pocket. It was too hot to wear a jacket. Does 11.3 miles per hour sound like a logical maximum speed for a lazy ride? She just galloped forward for a couple of strides; didn't go far enough to get her speed up. It said that the average was 3 miles per hour and it must have been close because we went 3.2 miles in about an hour. So those who are experienced with these things, does it sound like it is working right?


----------



## mildot

There is something wrong with your GPS's software.

It is mathematically impossible for the average to be higher than the maximum.


----------



## Celeste

I may have to send it back. I was just wondering if it doesn't work right at slow speeds.


----------



## gunslinger

Do you have the latest firmware loaded?


----------



## Celeste

I have no idea what firmwear is.......


----------



## Celeste

I just googled it. I don't know whether what came on mine is up to date or not. I just bought it Christmas so it seems like it would be. The numbers that I get make sense when I go a bit faster. They are incorrect at slow speeds. 

My father would have suggested that I check the controls to be sure that there wasn't a loose nut somewhere..........


----------



## QOS

Call Garmin and they will help you or send another out. They are super nice to work with and will teach you what you need to do to get the information you want. It will also let them know if yours is a dud!


----------



## mildot

QOS said:


> Call Garmin


+1 This isn't a problem you can fix alone.

They will either help you download a fix or they will get you a new one.


----------



## Celeste

I contacted Garmin and they said to reload the software and they gave me the link. It works in the car, but I haven't tried it out at low speeds yet which was the problem. It is too cold and windy for me to care much about getting outside today.


----------



## QOS

Hope that helps Celeste. It is cold and windy here today too. Hoping for better weather tomorrow so I can go riding.


----------



## Celeste

I think this weekend is going to be lost to riding. The wind is gusting up to 20 mph and it is COLD!


----------



## gunslinger

Yep, blowing and cold. Maybe tomorrow will be better.


----------



## QOS

Barry and I just went out to eat in the neighboring county - wind is blowing stiffly and it was 45 degrees with wind chill of 39 degrees. Don't know if I will be riding tomorrow. My cousin said it will be to cold and too wet and sloppy. Sigh...I MISS riding!


----------



## Celeste

I hate cold weather............


----------



## gunslinger

Celeste said:


> I hate cold weather............


Spring will soon be here Celeste.....For the record, I hate hot weather more.....


----------



## Celeste

gunslinger said:


> Spring will soon be here Celeste.....For the record, I hate hot weather more.....


I'll complain about that when the time comes.............


----------



## gunslinger

Hopefully we'll have a nice long spring with plenty of time to ride before hot weather.

I was trying to get your mind off the cold weather.

The wife and I worked in the pasture today, pole sawing low limbs and cutting up down trees, getting ready to over seed and fertilize.

Quite a nice day for that, warm in the sun but cold in the shade, barely above freezing this afternoon, but nice if you're moving around.

How far down in GA are you?


----------



## Celeste

Middle Georgia. Not that far from Macon.
You near Chattanooga?


----------



## gunslinger

Yes, I'm in Harrison TN.... 20 miles north of Downtown Chattanooga.


----------



## mildot

I'd be all over 45 degrees with a 39 windchill.

It was 12 when I tacked up Sunday morning, and even though I rode indoors it was still cold enough to need to wear a turtleneck, wool sweater, wool socks, and insulated gloves.

At least I was moving. The clinician working with me had to stand there.......


----------



## gunslinger

Ahhhhh, high of 62 forecast for Saturday.....I see a ride in my future!


----------



## mildot

gunslinger said:


> Ahhhhh, high of 62 forecast for Saturday.....I see a ride in my future!


Jeez....I'd be riding in a t shirt.

It's gonna be in the low 40s for the rest of the week. And sunny Sat and Sun. I see a trail ride in my future this weekend, plus some school work tomorrow and Friday.

Gotta take it easy on my shoulder.


----------



## QOS

I rode today and it was somewhat chilly and misting rain when I got to the barn. I had a heavy long sleeve shirt on and my coat. It warmed up some and I was grooming Biscuit so I took off the coat. I rode in the covered arena and it was a little cool but not too bad - around 60 degrees. It cleared up and was sun-shining when I left. Hopefully going to ride again tomorrow.


----------



## gunslinger

mildot said:


> Jeez....I'd be riding in a t shirt.
> 
> It's gonna be in the low 40s for the rest of the week. And sunny Sat and Sun. I see a trail ride in my future this weekend, plus some school work tomorrow and Friday.
> 
> Gotta take it easy on my shoulder.


What part of the world do you live in Mildot?

I mean, 40 degrees is cold for a lot of us southerners.....


----------



## mildot

gunslinger said:


> What part of the world do you live in Mildot?
> 
> I mean, 40 degrees is cold for a lot of us southerners.....


Two states north of you (OH).

It's 40 today and I will probably only wear a t shirt, LS polo, and MAYBE a fleece vest which will probably come off 15 minutes into the ride.


----------



## QOS

As long as it is not humid I can ride in the high 50's in a tee-shirt. It is the freaking humidity that gets us. It is like wearing a cold wet blanket and the chill goes to the bones. I actually like riding in cool or even cold weather as long as I am dressed for what we are having that day - hahahaha it can be COLD as all get out like the other day when the wind chill was 22 to like it is today at 69 degrees. You never know what you are going to get in southeast Texas!


----------



## mildot

mildot said:


> It's 40 today and I will probably only wear a t shirt, LS polo, and MAYBE a fleece vest which will probably come off 15 minutes into the ride.


That's exactly what happened.

Within 15 minutes I took off my vest and laid it on top of a jump standard (I started my ride in the indoor arena). When it got too crowded I went to the outdoors arena and rode for another half hour until just after sunset.

It was probably 38-40 degrees and just a long sleeve polo is all I needed. And yes, it was very humid here today.

Funny thing is I grew up in the tropics. But I've been exposed to such extremes of weather during my life that I can stand just about anything.


----------



## Celeste

If it is 40 degrees, I will probably hide out in the house. I sure won't be taking off my coat!


----------



## QOS

Better to take off layers when it gets too warm than be freezing and have nothing to put on!!! Hahahahaha...I can take some cold but geez, I live in southeast Texas for a reason - we don't have really long cold winters!


----------



## mildot

QOS said:


> Better to take off layers when it gets too warm than be freezing and have nothing to put on!!!


Or worse yet, have one heavy coat and get sweaty while riding hard.


----------



## mildot

Celeste said:


> If it is 40 degrees, I will probably hide out in the house. I sure won't be taking off my coat!


I wouldn't be able to ride from November to March.......


----------



## QOS

Yeah, one coat doesn't get it. Cuddl Duds, Light Tee Shirt, Long Sleeve Shirt or Light Jacket generally gets the job done. IF it is down in the 40's I rode last year in Tee shirt, Long Sleeve Shirt and my coat that is made with that wind breaker material and quilted on the inside - not too bulky (I actually hate wearing coats), socks and gloves and that worked out just fine even on the coldest rides. We rode last January 2011 and it was in the low 30's and we were just fine. Had a great time. I have had to take layers off and tie them to the back of my cantle - that is what all of those latigo's are for!!


----------



## mildot

Well, I hope Celeste doesn't mind the derailment more.......

Temps have been swinging like mad here in Ohio.

Last Sunday morning it was 12 degrees. Today it was like 38 at the same hour.


----------



## Celeste

12 degrees..........................
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Help. Deliver me..............


----------



## QOS

Well, getting back on GPS's. I was supposed to go on a camping trip with my peeps and my horses. Weather is getting in the way. It will be POURING rain everywhere Saturday so we are not going camping. I will be going to a GPS course put on by a geocaching group. Hopefully will learn something wonderful!


----------



## Celeste

My sister actually teaches some of those GPS trail making courses. Every time we get together things are so busy that we never get to the GPS subject. I always mean to bring it up, but it never happens.


----------



## gunslinger

QOS said:


> Well, getting back on GPS's. I was supposed to go on a camping trip with my peeps and my horses. Weather is getting in the way. It will be POURING rain everywhere Saturday so we are not going camping. I will be going to a GPS course put on by a geocaching group. Hopefully will learn something wonderful!


Sounds like fun. Have you ever considered an Orienteering or land navigation course?


----------



## QOS

Celeste - get on the horn and pick that sister's brain!!!! 

Gunslinger, I have checked it out and couldn't find any around here. I called the local university and they had a course coming up but then cancelled it :evil:


----------

