# Can't get his legs to stop swelling



## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

I took my horse out Cross Country last Saturday (3/23). I haven't ever wrapped my horse and no one mentioned much to me about the fact that he should probably be wrapped after such a workout. Needless to say when i came out Sunday to see him, his back legs were wrecked. The swelling was so bad that the skin busted open and the fluid was seeping out. I wrapped him, and got him home. I called the vet and told him he needed to come out ASAP. I was most worried about cellulitis. The vet said he needed 10cc of Dex and there wasn't much he would be able to do for him. 

It's been a little over a week now. He had 10cc of Dex on Sunday, and then another 10 on Thursday. While there's no heat, and he's not lame, the legs continue to be very swollen. If he's wrapped all night, the legs go back to normal. If he's worked, the legs go back to normal. But i've NEVER had to keep my horse wrapped up all the time because of stocking up. So i'm concerned. I'm concerned that he's going to be chronically stocked up forever. Is this possible? Has anyone ever had this happen? I feel terrible for how this all happened. He was so good for me at the cross country clinic, and we had so much fun... only for it to turn into this big mess with him in pain because i don't know what the heck i'm doing!!! It's very frustrating.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Cold hose his legs?????? That's what I would do. And maybe seek another opinion from a seperate vet.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I am assuming that:

1) He has no fever.

2) The swelling 'pits' with pressure. When you squeeze it between your thumb and a finger. [How long does the 'pit' stay there?]

3) He has no similar swelling in his ventral belly.

Is there any way you can leave this horse out most of the time? Constant exercise will do more than anything else for him. Being stalled is not good for a horse that has started seriously stocking up. And yes. It could be an ongoing problem from now on.

How old is this horse? Does he tire easily. If he is older or tires easily or has ventral edema, he needs a complete workup by an eguine center. These are early signs of congestive heart failure and/or an inadequate blood flow and return flow.

If he were mine (I am not a Vet recommending anything to anyone else) and he had no serious symptoms (like listed above) and no fever, I would put him out when I could (even if he needed a winter storm bkanket and hood) and wrap him with a DMSO, Dexametasone and Furacin sweat in standing wraps when he had to be in. I would stay away from elastic type pressure wraps. While they do not let fluid accumulate, they also do not promote increased blood flow. Only exercise does that and that is what he needs most. Next best thing (in my opinion only) would be the sweats which will increase blood flow. DMSO is the best anti-inflamatory available with or without a prescription. It is much better than any steroid, can be mixed with Dex and has none of the bad side effects.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

He is 9 years old... will be 10 in July. He doesn't have a fever. The legs do not "pit" with pressure. He doesn't have any swelling in his belly. Eating normally and well. I left the wraps off today... when i got to the barn this evening, he was all swollen again. He was pretty stiff and sore. He works out of it within a few minutes, and the swelling goes right down again. I called the vet this afternoon and asked that he come out. He won't be able to come until Thursday of next week (4/11). So i'm just going to try and ride him as much as possible and keep him wrapped as long as i can. How often should I be sweating? He does still have open wounds from where the fluid keeps weeping out of. I have only sweat the legs 3 days in a row and have been dry wrapping since.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

You need to cold hose his legs for about 10 minutes minimum after you work him. If you have a cold pond where he can stand up to his knees for a bit, that would work too.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

I cold hose in the morning after i pull his wraps. Then after i ride. However, the swelling really only gets out of control because he's standing in a stall all day until i get out to ride. My trainer puts him on the hot walker for about an hour or two, but it's not enough to pull the swelling down as much as working him in the arena sand does. I would love for him to be in a pasture with other horses, that's just not possible where we are. I have been "Googling" DMSO all night. I have my degree in pharmacology, so I have worked with DMSO for patients... i suppose i just never thought about using it on a horse. You have to be pretty careful with the medical grade stuff. I'm going to ring the vet tomorrow and see what he thinks about it. I'd like to give it a try.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

If the swelling goes down with movement then that is what he needs. I would find somewhere where he can be out 24/7 or at least in a dry lot.


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## Jore (Dec 4, 2010)

DMSO is really good for getting swelling out, although if I ever have another horse with swelling... I'd be more comfortable using something else because I hear different things from different people. It worked great for when Indie's leg swelled up to the size of a stove pipe... she also had problems with her legs stocking up before then if she spent the night or day in her stall but for that, she was just outside 24/7.

If you go with DMSO, just remember that when you change the wraps, you need to wash off the existing DMSO from the leg before putting more on. You probably knew that already though, but I figured I'd add that.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Actually, much of the DMSO negative info is false.

I have used it for over 50 years. My old Vet (of more than 25 years) recently retired. He experimented with it and used it extensively much earlier than most other Vets did. He started using it IV more than 20 years ago and saved many horses with it long before I heard of any other Equine clinics using it. He had me use it for some really bazaar and exotic problems on horses that were as good as dead. I saved several horses with internal abscesses from ******* strangles and from lung abscesses accompanying exotic forms of foal pneumonia when every Vet around us was losing every single case they treated. I have saved several horses with advanced cellulitis and lymphangitis with it. 

In the early 60s, it was only available in crude dirty grades that came straight from paper pulp mills where it is a by-product that was discovered accidentally.

It does not spread an infection. It is bacteriostatic - it will not take in bacteria with it, but, it will take in other drugs. Its solvent abilities will disperse steroids and antibiotics exactly where they are needed. 

It is the first thing I reach for with any open wound that cannot be sutured. I mix it with Gentomycin and have NEVER had a wound treated this way that got infected and did not heal more quickly that it would have. For one thing, it reduces swelling and so there is so much less damage to the edges and surrounding area.

It is the first thing I use any time a horse comes up sore -- just as soon as I can identify the problem. I've used it on mild to severe tendon strains, ligament strains (particularly suspensory ligaments), sore and puffy knees, hocks, stifles, etc. 

When I use it as a sweat, I mix Dex, liquid Furacin and DMSO. It makes a Furacin sweat MUCH more effective. Doc used to have me use 18 hours on and 6 hours off -- 18 hours on and 6 hours off over and over. Occasionally I would get a light 'scurf' but not a blister. 

I made sure it was NEVER done over a liniment or other external product. The solvent powers of DMSO can make that a disaster. I've seen huge damage done by switching from a liniment or Iodine paint to DMSO. That is the only time that I carefully scrub the skin with a strong soap or detergent. Even then, I test it first on a small area without wrapping it. 

I inherited several horses that were going to be scrapped because of injuries. Doc sent me several to re-hab because he did not have the time to do it and the clinic setting would be too expensive and not practical. 

The 99% pure liquid (bought at a feed store) is what I use. I buy 4 oz. plastic dauber bottles (at my Vet clinic) and label each mixture in them. I have separate bottles of DMSO / Furacin / steroid (Dexamethasone or DepoMedrol) and for DMSO / Gentomycin. 

I try to keep it off of my own hands. It tastes terrible and makes your breath smell like something crawled in your mouth and died. Prolonged skin exposure can give you 'blurred vision' which clears up within a few days of NOT getting it (or putting it) on your skin. Been there - done that. Some people and 2 horses I have used it on are allergic to it. My son gets physically ill if he gets any on his skin. He is also allergic to any Sulfa Drug and cannot tolerate any form of Sulfur exposure. DMSO is a Sulfur Compound.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Call a different vet! and find someone ASAP or take the horse to them. 

"He does still have open wounds from where the fluid keeps weeping out of." 

This does not sound good to me. If this was just stocking up, you would still have swelling but it should dent when you press on it. If it is not denting than you probably have a more severe inflammatory response going on. I would also be suspicious of cellulitis, as drainage is not a good sign! 

If it is cellulitis than he needs antibiotics or that infection is going to keep spreading. 

As for DMSO they are now recommending to use no more than 70% DMSO rather than 100%. Plenty of people still use the 100% but it causes skin irritation. Even the 70% DMSO will turn my skin pure red and make me itch like crazy, but I might just be sensitive.

My boss uses this at work "a mix of Dex, liquid Furacin and DMSO" and it did blister one of the horses, but I am not sure he took it off in a timely manner. 

DMSO is also neurotoxic, but it does reduce inflammation during brain injuries, so something to keep in mind if you ever need to use it IV or in high doses. 

How hard are you working him? Is it possible he injured a ligament or tendon? As that would also cause swelling and if he did hit a jump he may have scratched himself. Is it an actually scratch or is the skin developing pustules?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Oxer said:


> I would love for him to be in a pasture with other horses, that's just not possible where we are.


Then you need to move him to someplace where he CAN be out. This isn't good for him to be cooped up with swollen legs. He needs to be able to walk to boost circulation and prevent the swelling. 

You need to do what is best for your horse;


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Cherie said:


> My old Vet (of more than 25 years) recently retired. He experimented with it and used it extensively much earlier than most other Vets did. He started using it IV more than 20 years ago and saved many horses with it long before I heard of any other Equine clinics using it.


DMSO IV treatment has been around a lot longer than 20 years. As a vet tech in the early 80s we used it as a treatment for horses regulary. Even then, it was not new. We used it so often I became immune to the smell, but it always left the fish taste in my mouth.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

I have noticed that there is a pretty nasty bruise under the skin where the digital extensor tendon runs (Right Hind). He's got white stockings up his hind legs so it's pretty easy to see. I will take some pictures tomorrow so you folks can get a look at the mess that's going on. It's pretty frustrating. He's still going sound. I would think that surely he would be dead lame with all this going on. 

As for sending him away.... I would like for the vet to come out and re-evaluate. If this is something more serious, then I would like to set him up in a facility that will cater to his rehabilitation. It will be very far from me. I will have to really be comfortable with whatever the diagnosis/prognosis is before i let him out of my care.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

It would worry me the most that this swelling does not pit on pressure. This means that it is all inflammatory swelling and not edema. It is not a cellulitis yet, but could be with the entry of bacteria. Constantly monitoring his temperature will tell you if serious antibiotics need to be used. I would probably opt for using them now, especially if your Vet has had him on Dexamethasone. 

The 'weeping' tells me that there is a lot of tissue damage and blood vessel damage. Again, DMSO with an antibiotic and steroid mixed in would help more than anything. 

I would NOT stand this horse in a pond. Pong water is way too dirty where there is any break in the skin. It would be the wrong thing to do. 

And yes, trying to remember when I was first told to use DMSO IV -- It was in 1985 when I inherited a barn full of horses with Strangles. Several had already died. One died right after I got there. Several had internal abscesses. I called my Vet here in OK, Dr. Leon Self. [Dr. Self was the predecessor to the one that recently retired.] I was in Missouri where I went to try to 'bale out' this owner of over 300 horses with 50-60 of them sick. I did not lose any more after I started treating them. I first used it mixed with other medications in 1959 or 1960 when I was grooming on the race track.

When you run into a horse that is sensitive to it, you just cannot use it on them. Some of those horses cannot take SMZ pills either or Glucosomine Sulfate. Glucosomine Sulfate is a substance very similar to DMSO Chemically. I would guess that Chondroitin Sulfate would be the same.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Oxer have you tried ice wraps? Get some polo wraps, some ice blankets, and a thin towel. Wet the towel, put it on the leg, apply the ice blanket and wrap it all on with the polo wraps. Each ice wrap lasts about 15 minutes before it melts. Most ice blankets can be cut to the size you need. I use rubbermaid ice blankets and mine lasted a long time before some of the cells broke. 

I would stop working this horse except for hand walks. He could have damage to his ligaments (ligament damage does not always produce a severe lameness or even any lameness symptoms at all). You would need an ultrasound to check for that. Although with weeping it sounds like an infection. 

Get the vet out !


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

Well i called the vet tonight and told him it can't wait. The swelling has very suddenly moved all the way up into the hock. Vet said he will be out tomorrow first thing... and that he will likely need a serious round of antibiotics. He wouldn't eat his dinner tonight either which is also very alarming. I bought a large jug of the 99% DMSO today, and will be seeking the go ahead from the vet to start applying it (and hopefully instructions on how to put the stuff on correctly!). I also bought 4 new pairs of no bows, since we seem to be going through them faster than i can get them cleaned. Anyway... hopefully a round of antibiotics will get this all under control. I will let ya'll know what i find out tomorrow.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i hope he get better quickly !


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## Jore (Dec 4, 2010)

DMSO isn't too hard to apply... just bring a proper cotton wrap, syran/plastic wrap and some sort of wrap to wrap around it. I used a pair of rubber gloves as well and my farrier told me to use a clean toothbrush to apply it... it worked well and I never managed to get it on myself either. He told me I could expect some fuss about the first application since sometimes it causes sensations in their legs but Indie didn't mind at all, however, he said it was likely that she had DMSO put on before in her racing days.

Basically, you just need to put a thin application on the entire area that's showing signs of swelling and once it's on, you put the cotton wrap (or no bow as I think you said you bought) around it. Then, you put the syran/plastic wrap around that before applying the final bandage/wrap to keep it all together. Also, I'm sure the vet told you use, but sometimes the DMSO will change states and generally, you want it in a more liquid form so putting it in hot water for a few minutes will help with that.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Like everyone said, he needs constant physical exercise. Henny was treated with DMSO and dex through an IV drip for almost three days. He then continued oral bute and dex for almost two months afterwards. He was on stall rest most of that time and never stocked up. The last time I stalled him was a couple months ago and he stocked up over night. He hadn't stayed in his stall since then and he hasn't stocked up since then. Could I ask why your facilities doesn't whole turnout for your horse? I hope you get this under control and he gets better. It's hard setting our horses hurting, no matter the reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Ignore all my typos, dang phone. I also forgot to mention Henny was treated for brain damage/swelling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

If this is a flexor problem the las thing he needs is to move (although it will seem to diminish swelling), and wrapping with dmso can be very dicey (esp if there is heat). Does he have a temp? What is it? Pulse and reap?


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## countercanter (May 18, 2011)

We use a Furison/DMSO sweat for stocked up legs. But it sounds like you have a bigger problem on your hands. Let us know what the vet says.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Would a flexor problem cause such large amounts of swelling? I've never had experience with that before so I don't know. If I ever have to deal with such a thing, now's the time to get the knowledge about it. I always thought a flexor problem would be physically evident in the leg and/or their gait?


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

I board at a show barn. Most of the barns in my area are considered "show barns". Board is very high, there are no pastures, and the horses are kept in full training year round. We do have turn outs... but what might look like a turn out to me, would probably give the rest of you a pretty good laugh. We are only allowed 20 minutes max for each horse in the "turn outs", as there is usually a lot of horses rotating in and out of them throughout the day. 
I took off from work today so that i could really spend time with the vet and with my horse. The vet had a couple emergency calls this morning, but he said he would be out by 12-ish. I am anxiously awaiting his arrival. 

As for fever... i would almost be willing to bet that my guy has been feverish through this whole thing. He loooooves to eat, but wouldn't touch his dinner last night. I gave him 2 grams of bute, dry wrapped the legs, and came out early this morning to get him walking. The legs were very weepy, but the swelling was down a bit, and he ate both his dinner late last night, as well as his morning bucket and hay this am. I just recently found out what an abnormal temp for a horse is, however; i don't own a thermometer. Can you use the regular digital ones they use on humans? And you just take it rectally, am i correct? I was told anything above 102 is feverish. Is that also correct? Thank you for all the information and help, everyone. I appreciate all the knowledge that you afford... helping me to be a better horse person and owner!


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

38.5 - 39.5 is normal
99.5 - 101.5 is normal

You should really have a first aid kit for your horse that included a thermometer. I would also suggest a mercury one as it will be more accurate.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

I bought a thermometer from Chick's and it just looks like a standard people thermometer. I usually feel in his armpit every day. If he's feeling a little too warm or he looks a little off, I temp him rectally and wash the thermometer off afterwards. Temping them regularly can also give you an idea of what their "normal" body temp is. If it's ever below or above that normal temp, then that might be a sign that something's going on.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Get a thermometer! ASAP. In a pinch, you can use the human ones, but remember to hold them really tightly as the horse can actually pull them into his body. So make sure you don't get vaseline on your hands or on the back of the thermometer where you are holding it. You want to invest in termometer that you can hook a baling twine on the back so you can't loose it. I think Jeffers sells 5 second thermometers that are really nice. 

I'm not sure why you waited so long for the vet? Stocking up just means some swelling which quickly disappears with work. There should be no heat, just some slight fluid buildup and it should leave a dent if you push on it. 

What you are describing, is oozing sores, and very firm swelling that does not dent, means you have a much worse problem going on. I'm glad the vet is coming out.

Cellulitis, especially if it is spreading may mean you need IV antibiotics. 

Do you have vet wrap, banadages, betadine, peroxide? Some of those things are an absolutely must for dealing with horses. 

I once saw a horse almost bleed to death because the barn he was at did not have a first aid kit. If you or someone else gets injured while at the barn, that first aid kit might come in handy as well. It's something that it is always a good idea to have. 

Ranitidine is another product that is useful - you never know when a horse is going to have ulcers and need some! You can pick up the people stuff over the counter and give it to your horse in a pinch. 

I like to keep antibiotics on hand as well, banamine, benadryl, bute, and syringes of different sizes, and needles. I'm sure others can add more...


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

My boyfriend and i spoke about the fact that I waited much too long to insist that the vet come and address what was going on. Unfortunately, I learned to ride. I never learned to be a horse owner until much much later in life. I have only had a horse for the last 3 years. So it's been a learning process.

Vet declared that he has Lymphangitis. He got Lasix, Banamine, Bute, Triamcinolone, injected. I am to give 4 Grams Bute daily for five days, then 2 Grams Bute daily for five days. This is along with high dose SMZ-TMP twice daily for ten days. He wants me to work him in the arena as much as possible. Which means I will be riding in the early morning, and then evening after work. My trainer will be putting him on the hot walker for 2 hours+ (as long as he'll tolerate). I'm worried how I'm going to give the SMZ's... the vet just marched right up and squished it down his throat with a big syringe. I don't foresee it going that easily for me. haha!


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Crush them into apple sauce, mine eats it that way on her feed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

So these are a couple shots of his "bad" leg from today. He's doing much better... especially considering how terribly swollen the leg was on Thursday. Since he saw the vet Friday, the swelling has diminished from the hock, and he felt great under saddle today. Vet texted me this morning and said he should looks worlds better within 48 hours, and if not, then I am to contact him right away. Hopefully by Monday, the swelling will be even less.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

So this whole episode came on after a XC schooling day and he's never had the problem before? That is really interesting. While it would be perfectly normal for a horse that does not have much turnout to have this problem frequently, yours obviously did well until now. Did the vet say anything about why this suddenly became a factor? 

Glad to see he's doing better. Even if you only hand walk him for 15 minutes twice a day, the movement will help. Don't beat yourself up about not getting the vet out sooner. I find the learning curve with horse care to be much steeper than the riding curve. We just do the best we can for our equine buddies.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

MyBoyPuck said:


> So this whole episode came on after a XC schooling day and he's never had the problem before? That is really interesting. While it would be perfectly normal for a horse that does not have much turnout to have this problem frequently, yours obviously did well until now. Did the vet say anything about why this suddenly became a factor?


Truth be told, my horse is just a sturdy sort of guy. So I've never wrapped him, never cold hosed, never ice boots, nothing. We have managed not to have any sort of problems like this with his legs. I have learned my lesson with this. Vet says i need to take special care of his legs... especially after jumping. He believes that a mixture of him stocking up overnight, coupled with the dirty water that we were galloping through, caused the ruptured skin to become a perfect doorway for the bacteria. If it had just simply been stocking up, he would have been better within a few days. 

I would love to try going out to the clinic again. Although, this time maybe a little smarter about his aftercare for such a workout.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Oh, so it was ultimately the dirty water getting in there? Interesting. You learn something new every day. I also do not ice legs after XC. Thanks to your experience, I will also be more vigilant.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

I thought i would post a picture from the XC clinic. It's from a vid of us galloping through the water, over the little log and back out through the water again. I had been riding a little defensively as he'd never been in water let alone jumping over things that don't fall down. haha! He was totally game for the whole thing. I was most proud of my little guy.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

What a nice picture! Glad to hear it wasn't anything too serious! 

I miss jumping XC with my old mare. Although I must admit I would never be brave enough for some of the big stuff!


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## mustbemonroe (Mar 3, 2011)

Oxer said:


> I thought i would post a picture from the XC clinic. It's from a vid of us galloping through the water, over the little log and back out through the water again. I had been riding a little defensively as he'd never been in water let alone jumping over things that don't fall down. haha! He was totally game for the whole thing. I was most proud of my little guy.


Aww where was this and who was the clinician? I miss eventing...(I live in SoCal and shown and schooled quite a few places!)

Seeing your pic makes me greeeeeeen with envy!


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

Copper Meadows Eventing

Clinic was here. James and his wife do clinics a few times a month i believe. Some really incredible... and seriously BRAVE riders out there!


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## StandingOvation (Jun 23, 2010)

First thing that popped in my mind when I read the OP was Lymphangitis. Went through it with my guy and it was terrible for him. Hoping your handsome boy feels better soon!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I hope this regimine helps! Poor guy..

I'm glad you noticed he was stocking up. You're a great owner.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

Thank you, Sky. Sometimes I need to just listen to my gut and call the vet instead of listening to trainers, other riders, and the like. I'm realizing that I would much rather be safe than sorry!


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