# Using horse manure catchers on trails



## Queenofsomethinghopefully (Aug 31, 2018)

So I was browsing the internet, curious about peoples opinions on horse manure on trails. Now my personal opinion is quite simple; kick it off the trail if you notice, and be done with it. It's not really a big deal, especially since there's usually all kinds of other poop there anyways from dogs and wild animals. If you're of the mind that poop of any kind should be nowhere in nature, don't leave your house as you will be sorely disappointed. Of course, on trails meant just for equestrians, usually some poop is no big deal. But for multi-use trails, just kick it off. So I was looking through some mountain biker forums about the subject and WOW they HATE equestrians with a passion! I found it quite humorous to be honest. By comparison, hiker forums were quite chill with some horse poop on trails. Anyways, some people raised the question of why don't equestrians use those poop catchers that you can attach to the saddle. 

Now the obvious answers for why not that I can think of are:

- You might not ride in a saddle
- You'd rather just leave the poop or kick it off the trail

But I was curious as to whether or not the horse can gallop/trot comfortably with the bag attached to them like that? Is rubbing a common issue? I couldn't find these answers anywhere so I wanted to ask them here. :gallop:
If they aren't an issue, why don't more people use them? Especially since there's been a lot of talk in certain areas about banning horse riders due to manure being on the trail.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

They have poop catchers for saddles?? The only ones I've ever seen are the ones that attach between the shafts of a cart of carriage when driving. I had no idea riding diapers were a thing. 

-- Kai


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## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

I asked myself the same question when I started riding through suburbs and public walking trails. I was quite paranoid about getting yelled at by some upset jogger, and had also thought about the possibility of "horse diapers." I talked to my BO a bit about it, since she has been riding horses in this area for 30+ years, and said she has never had anyone get upset so long as she kicks it off the trail. And so far, that's the same experience for me.

I have been blessed with a horse who thinks it's funny to poop on the narrow walking bridge. So then I need to dismount, walk back, and kick it off the edge of the bridge while my horse patiently stands with me. Sometimes a few people accumulate on either end to wait for the crazy girl to finish kicking poop off the bridge. No matter how hard I try, there will always be some remnants left in the cracks of the wood. So far, no one has complained - they probably think it's a comedy act.

One time, she pooped right in someone's driveway right in the middle of the development we walk through to get to the trails. A middle-aged man walked onto the front lawn and, seeing me, said "Don't. Move." And ran inside. I thought "uh oh, this is the grand moment of shame I've been expecting." Turns out his wife just loves horses and he wanted to prove to her that he wasn't crazy when he said "Honey, there's a horse walking down the road!!" the week before :rofl: turns out she has her own horse and was more than willing to shovel the poop for me, even though I offered to do it myself.


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## Queenofsomethinghopefully (Aug 31, 2018)

@Kaifyre
Yeah they do, and they look pretty funny as well. As far as I can tell there's ones for saddles, ones for carriages, and some that are kinda a hybrid of the two since they attach to the horse and carriage. 
@Aprilswissmiss
Well I'm glad that you have not had any bad experiences! Where I am we have had some irate guy write an open letter in the newspaper about the "copious" amounts horse manure on public trails and one guy who was accosting people outside of the therapeutic riding association where I was about how people were leaving horse manure on the trails. He was mad since his dog ate some and needed to go to the vet because of it. He even yelled at someone on her horse! Luckily his dog, a german shepherd, was completely chill as he was screaming his head off. Not to mention we aren't the only people with horses on that particular trail, and that if you don't want your dog to eat poop, don't let him off leash. There's plenty of deer poop out there that you can't control. That being said, most people are lovely and are utterly entranced by the sight of a horse, like how I'm sure that that middle-aged lady was excited to see a horse on her road- even if it had just pooped in the middle of it.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Long gone are the days when people would rush out to gatherna pile of horse poop to put on their garden! 

Never had the problem in the UK and I certainly have never dismounted tomscatter a pile of horse poop. Different with dogs, I do Clan up after them. 

I do know that anrace trainer tries these poop gathers on the horses in the stables. It was pretty disastrous. His horses stopped winning (except one horse owner refused to allow the catchers to be used on their horse) It also took two lads to remove the catcher every morning they were heavy.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

When I rode the streets of my neighborhood I would go back and clean it up if i knew where it was (after my ride) but honestly... drive over it - it will go away... LOL... (I know that's a horse people line of thought).

On trail? Eh... I ride on private trails or trails that are designated horse trails. They might be horse/people/bike but if they say horse then I don't worry.

The dog on the other hand - I either ensure he poops off the trail or - if he does poop on it, then I clean it. Horse poop isn't going to be missed. A hiker is going to see that. Dog poop - not so much....


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Something else to think about, you are on a ride and your horse poops three times, look at the weight he'd be carrying swinging about his back end as well as the volume. 

If I had three poops in my pants I'd want to get home as fast as I could!


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## Queenofsomethinghopefully (Aug 31, 2018)

That's very true, I would not wanna carry that around with me all day... I guess I was thinking more that the catcher would catch it, and then you would dump it off of the trail from the saddle if you could rig it that way. That's why I was asking if horses could gallop/trot comfortable enough in because I don't think I would with something hanging off my butt like that!


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

If my horse poops on a neighbours lane or close to their house I will go back and clean it up, if riding on trails where people walk I get off and kick it off the trail, have to remember to wear old boots on those days. I appreciate being able to ride on these properties and try to be respectful. After 60+ years of riding and on other people's property I have never had a complaint.
On trails where it is horses only I don't bother.
I do clean it off walkers trails as I don't want them complaining and thus leading to having the trails closed to horses

Some trails have been closed to horses and believe it or not still open to ATVs and these vehicles can do so much damage to a trail, they find a wet spot and roar back and forth until the trail is so cut up it's impassable, they can really mess up trails and to me that is a lot worse than a little horse poop.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I have never ever thought of cleaning up horse poo from the trails I ride on. Many are multi-use, but more by quads and dirt bikes than by cyclists and hikers. I used to be an avid hiker and seeing horse poo on multi-use trails never bothered me. I'd rather step in a pile of horse poo than dog poo. 

Depending on where we are riding, if my horse poos while tied to the trailer I may or may not clean it up. Many of the places I trailer to are considered 'crown land', and there are wild horses everywhere. So you'll see the large stud piles of poo....I figure it there is already horse poo there then I don't need to clean it up. 

I don't ride through any neighborhoods though, so that could be tricky. All of my riding from my house is on gravel rural roads and I don't care if my horse poops on the shoulder.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Bicycles should have their own trails. I love cycling and horseback riding but when I'm on horseback I don't enjoy the cyclists. When I'm on my bike it's dangerous going around hikers and I hate anything slippery. 

Last year I was flying down a trail on my bike, having the time of my life, and hit an unexpected slick spot when I was going around a couple who'd stopped to look at a turtle. Of course they stayed to help me. I kept trying to stand up to show them that I would be OK, and every time I stood up I started to faint. They had to call an ambulance to drive all the way down the narrow trail to get me - in the mean time other bikes and hikers kept going around us. Two more bicycles slipped on the slick spot. Everybody was gawking at me. The ambulance had a terrible time getting in and out. I was practically in tears from embarrassment. My right arm was broken. That was the end of everything fun for me for months, and it slowed me down a lot at work, too! That was just from a little patch of mud. I can't imagine hitting a pile of horse poop. 

I am not about to ride my bike on a trail shared with horses! But - if I did choose to ride on a trail shared with horses, I certainly would not complain about the poop. And I'm not cleaning my horses' poop off of shared trails.


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## Queenofsomethinghopefully (Aug 31, 2018)

I can see safety as a big issue with bikers and horses with road apples and other stuff as well. What I hate is when they're so quiet that you don't notice them until they're right there! Luckily I've done lots of bomb proofing with my horse so she doesn't spook at them, but it just takes once to have a nasty fall.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Queenofsomethinghopefully said:


> I can see safety as a big issue with bikers and horses with road apples and other stuff as well. What I hate is when they're so quiet that you don't notice them until they're right there! Luckily I've done lots of bomb proofing with my horse so she doesn't spook at them, but it just takes once to have a nasty fall.


It's bad enough when the bikes just cross the path in front of you unexpectedly and the horse spooks, but what I really hate is when one comes up behind you and the horse thinks it's being chased!


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## Queenofsomethinghopefully (Aug 31, 2018)

Yes! That sucks! Sometimes I even worry that my mare, who loves chasing things (including moving vehicles), will chase after it once it passes her in retaliation!


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Queenofsomethinghopefully said:


> Yes! That sucks! Sometimes I even worry that my mare, who loves chasing things (including moving vehicles), will chase after it once it passes her in retaliation!



I'm getting quite a visual! Cyclist pedaling for his life, terror on his face - horse running after him trying to stomp him - and a horse rider laughing her head off.


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## Queenofsomethinghopefully (Aug 31, 2018)

That would be quite a sight! :runpony::shock::dance-smiley05:


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Queenofsomethinghopefully said:


> So I was browsing the internet, curious about peoples opinions on horse manure on trails. Now my personal opinion is quite simple; kick it off the trail if you notice, and be done with it. It's not really a big deal, especially since there's usually all kinds of other poop there anyways from dogs and wild animals. If you're of the mind that poop of any kind should be nowhere in nature, don't leave your house as you will be sorely disappointed. Of course, on trails meant just for equestrians, usually some poop is no big deal. But for multi-use trails, just kick it off. So I was looking through some mountain biker forums about the subject and WOW they HATE equestrians with a passion! I found it quite humorous to be honest. By comparison, hiker forums were quite chill with some horse poop on trails. Anyways, some people raised the question of why don't equestrians use those poop catchers that you can attach to the saddle.
> 
> Now the obvious answers for why not that I can think of are:
> 
> ...


What were once referred to has "horse diapers" are the most ridiculous things ever. While I understand why some cities made the a requirement for their "carriage industry" (Charleston, SC was the first I'd heard of with that requirement) I don't think any of the cities with mounted police require them for their law enforcement equines (I could be mistaken).

As for trails, they are the a ludicrous concept. Horse manure is nothing more than grass composted at an accelerated rate (unlike bovine manure). Let horse manure sit for 5 days so it dries out. Crumble it in your hands and look at what you have....a lot of finely chopped bits of grass/hay which, prior to you breaking it all apart, was compacted together. My grandchildren get wagon loads of it and break it up to put in small pots to start my garden plants with (tomatoes, squash, cucumbers, peppers, etc., etc., etc.). It just composted grass. If someone takes an issue with it tell them that you're not going to charge them for the free, high grade, organic fertilizer. Just let it sit for a few days (rain will break it down quicker if it's fresher) and then step on it as if they were walking on clumps of cut grass (which is basically what it is). Once it dries it won't stick to shoes and just becomes a very healthy additive to the ground (and extremely good for any plants...grass included...that grow there).

I ride the highways. My horses take a "dump" whenever they want while walking, either in the road or on the shoulder (depending on where we physically are at the moment) and the state doesn't have a problem with it since they classify a ridden or driven horse as a "vehicle" (we have the same rights as a bicycle) so manure and urine is really nothing more than a solid or liquid form of "exhaust" LOL.

Unless you have 50+ horses riding on a specific trail on a daily basis then there's not going to be enough fresh manure deposited on a daily basis to matter. People who complain about it need to get better educated. The damage done by the domestic cat is a far bigger issue than some horse manure on trails and no one seems to be screaming to makes laws to resolve that problem.

I people have an issue with horse manure on a trail then I hope they are not so physically handicapped that they can't step over or around it and if the sight of it is so offensive to their delicate sensibilities then they can knock it to the side themselves. I am certainly not going to get off my horse every time she leaves a pile just to remove it and Miami will have 6' of snow in July before I put a "poop catcher" on my horse.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

its lbs not miles said:


> The damage done by the domestic cat is a far bigger issue than some horse manure on trails and no one seems to be screaming to make laws to resolve that problem.



Say it louder for the people in the back!!

-- Kai


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Kaifyre said:


> Say it louder for the people in the back!!
> 
> -- Kai


Okay....
THE *DAMAGE* DONE BY THE *DOMESTIC CAT* IS A FAR *BIGGER ISSUE* THAN SOME HORSE MANURE ON TRAILS AND *NO ONE* SEEMS TO BE* SCREAMING* TO MAKE* LAWS* TO _RESOLVE_ THAT *PROBLEM*

Papers on the damages caused by the domestic cat will be due on Friday. ****


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

This just became a hot topic on a local FB page because a woman’s dog ate some horse poop from along a trail on a walk, and nearly died due to ivermectin toxicity (dog was a whippet mix, a breed prone to it, and it’s a very common time for deworming with ivermectin here). Predictably that led several people to call for banning horses outright, or at least making people carry shovels when riding to clean up. We’re in a rural, horsey area where seeing people riding on the road or trails is very common, but even here people get resentful quickly. It’s such a shame.


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## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

egrogan said:


> This just became a hot topic on a local FB page because a woman’s dog ate some horse poop from along a trail on a walk, and nearly died due to ivermectin toxicity (dog was a whippet mix, a breed prone to it, and it’s a very common time for deworming with ivermectin here). Predictably that led several people to call for banning horses outright, or at least making people carry shovels when riding to clean up. We’re in a rural, horsey area where seeing people riding on the road or trails is very common, but even here people get resentful quickly. It’s such a shame.


This just seems like a good reason to enforce a "keep dogs on leashes on public property" policy more than a "no horse" policy. Dogs can die picking up all sorts of nasties from stagnant water, too, whether from toxic algae or leptospirosis. All it has to be is one square foot puddle. Horse manure certainly isn't the only way an off-leash dog could get sick.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> This just seems like a good reason to enforce a "keep dogs on leashes on public property" policy more than a "no horse" policy. Dogs can die picking up all sorts of nasties from stagnant water, too, whether from toxic algae or leptospirosis. All it has to be is one square foot puddle. Horse manure certainly isn't the only way an off-leash dog could get sick.


Amen——


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Keeping dogs on leashes while on public property wouldn't bother me at all.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I have serious doubts that what made the dog sick was ivermectin loaded horse manure. It would be so diluted out that it just doesn't seem reasonable to think that is what caused it.

Eating horse manure is good for dogs. It gives them vitamins. It even improves their breath if they chewed on something dead right before eating the manure. My dogs eat it all the time. Even if I gave the horses ivermectin.

And if I am riding a bike on a trail and see a horse turd, I am going to make a game of trying to flatten it. It is just green grass and water.


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

Flock of feral chickens is the answer for multi use trails. I don't know about any of you, but my chickens can knock down a pile of horse poop in about a minute flat.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

ladygodiva1228 said:


> Flock of feral chickens is the answer for multi use trails. I don't know about any of you, but my chickens can knock down a pile of horse poop in about a minute flat.


This gave me a good laugh because you’re right! But if people want to kill flocks of visiting geese because of the poop they leave behind, I imagine the poop-phobic trail users will just shift their bloodthirst to eradicating the feral chickens.
@Celeste, after recently adding a new English Shepherd pup to the family I’ve been doing a little reading on ivermectin toxicity. Apparently a lot of the herding breeds (collie and collie adjacent types) can have a gene mutation that makes them susceptible to severe effects from being exposed to even fairly low doses of ivermectin. Our pup has parents who gene tested negative for the mutation so he should be too, but it is scary because it’s not something a dog owner might think of without hearing about someone who lost a dog to it :sad:


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

@egrogan I was looking at the cost of testing. It is cheap. 

Washington State University $60

I found an article that has a chart that shows how much horse manure a dog with and without the genetic mutation would have to eat to be poisoned by the manure. According to his calculations, a 5 pound dog with the gene would have to eat only 2 nice turd balls to have a toxic reaction. But 2 turd balls is a lot of turds for a 5 pound dog. A 60 pound dog with the gene would have to eat 1.4 pounds of manure to get sick. The article.

If your dog does have the gene, there are many drugs that will cause serious reactions. One that surprised me was Imodium at the correct dosage to treat diarrhea. The article. 

I highly suspect that a much more dangerous risk to these dogs other than snacking on horse turds is if a tube of the flavored ivermectin paste is left within the dog's reach. This could poison any dog. 

I do know of a dog that ate an entire 1200 pound dose of horse wormer. Fortunately, it was Strongid P which is pyrantel pamoate. It is not terribly toxic. He didn't even get sick.

With all that said, my border collie, who has not been tested, happily ate about 3 turd balls while I rode today. She is as happy as can be. I think that turds get less tasty the more that you eat. Even if you are a dog.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

According to one of the articles I read (I didn't take a note of which) Border Collies are no more likely to carry the mutation than the normal population of dogs. 

And something that I read earlier, the toxic dosage of ivermectin even with the gene is 16 times higher than the normal dosage for heart worm prevention. 

The dosage used for mange would be very toxic to dogs with the mutation. I doubt it is all that healthy for not mutated dogs. But you have to look at risk versus benefit.

Sorry that I can't cite this information right now. 

It is a bad idea to let your dog run around unattended eating strange turds and running in front of random cars anyway.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

ladygodiva1228 said:


> Flock of feral chickens is the answer for multi use trails. I don't know about any of you, but my chickens can knock down a pile of horse poop in about a minute flat.


Ah, but then they will be screaming about being attacked by feral rooster on the trails. The gouges in the legs and possibly backs will heal, but I'm afraid the rips in the pants or shirts will require mending LOL. Then people will start showing up with guns and going on chicken hunts ****. End result will be much bigger problem over something that will take care of itself and is as simple as letting nature take care of a little organic material that got put there naturally and is good for soil anyway.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

egrogan said:


> This just became a hot topic on a local FB page because a woman’s dog ate some horse poop from along a trail on a walk, and nearly died due to ivermectin toxicity (dog was a whippet mix, a breed prone to it, and it’s a very common time for deworming with ivermectin here). Predictably that led several people to call for banning horses outright, or at least making people carry shovels when riding to clean up. We’re in a rural, horsey area where seeing people riding on the road or trails is very common, but even here people get resentful quickly. It’s such a shame.


**** My grandfather (and that generation) had a name for dogs like that....(wait, I can't tell you the name because the moderators will have an apoplectic fit if I actually write it LOL, for those of you who know morse "... …. .. _ / . ,_ _ .. _. _ _ . / _.. _ _ _ _ _.")…. so in more technical terms it would be called a fecal eating dog (that should keep the moderators happy ****). I fail to see how someone having a "fecal eating dog" should mean that a hose can't "defecate" on a trail (what happens if squirrel, rabbit, deer, or heaven forbid another dog defecates on the trail...that dog might eat it too). Having a dog like that sounds more like a personal problem for the owner. If it chases are cars and ends up as "road kill" does that mean we restrict cars from being driven on roads? I'm sorry if someone's dog dies from "ingesting" some horse's "fecal" matter, but it's no different than my being sorry when on of my horses launched a ladies German Shepherd that nipped her on the back leg (and got knocked 8 feet backward for it). I told the lady I was sorry that he dog was going to be hurting for most of the day, but it's the dogs own fault (and she readily acknowledged that it was not the fault of my horse). If they don't want to risk the dog meeting an untimely end from eating horse poop then it's up to them to prevent it. It's not the horse or rider's problem.

I wonder if I could have gotten away with "poop eating dog". After all we are talking about "horse poop" (and we actually call it that). Now have you guys "potty trained" your animals? Do they go "wee wee" or "poo poo" in their potty chair? I better take a screen shot of this for posterity just in case....I think it's going to get deleted LOL...(to offensive, even though we talk about it all the time on hear and I haven't used the dreaded "s" word once. ))


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

People are seriously losing it. Fermented grass is now something to be upset about. It's not like carnivore poop which is pretty gross. I don't even think that it is slippery, way less slippery than mud anyway.

When we ride on the beach, we have to stay below the last high tide line. Why? Firstly, so we don't trample wreck the wildlife habitat of the dunes. Secondly, when it's high tide, the ocean washes it away. Nobody cares if fermented grass gets into the ocean. Dog poop is a different story. Not really sure how people feel about the fish and whale poop.

If you don't want to encounter anything distasteful in this world we live in then just stay home. People are so neurotic anymore.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Actually dog poop on the beach can be an issue. If they have hookworms, the larvae from the eggs in the poop can travel up to 6 feet along the sand and get on you. Then they burrow into your skin. For most species of hookworms, they just cause a rash. For some species, especially in tropical areas, they actually can mature and give the person worms.

And what about the dogs eating coyote poop or fox poop. Who knows what all they have in their intestinal tracts. 

I think that delicate dogs should be kept at home with velvet pillows to rest on.

My rule about dogs and poop is this. If they roll in it, they are getting hosed off before coming in the house.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Celeste said:


> Actually dog poop on the beach can be an issue. If they have hookworms, the larvae from the eggs in the poop can travel up to 6 feet along the sand and get on you. Then they burrow into your skin. For most species of hookworms, they just cause a rash. For some species, especially in tropical areas, they actually can mature and give the person worms.
> 
> And what about the dogs eating coyote poop or fox poop. Who knows what all they have in their intestinal tracts.
> 
> ...


Yeah, dog poop is a different thing and can be a big issue. I always pick up their poop if I see them do it. Mostly, my dogs poop at home lol


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

@Celeste I actually have all of that worked out to the number of poop balls that effectively control heart worms..... it is on pc at home. If I can get to it by Monday I'll post my findings for the horse's leavings and the dog's takings.

I had the vet look at me like I was nuts when I refused heart worm preventative so had to prove the why and wherefore. I also had a sensitive dog so had to know when and how long to keep her out of the pasture.


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