# Different Warmblood horses



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

A warmblood is a horse that is mixed with a hot blooded horse(TB, arabian) and a cold blooded horse(most draft horses)


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

toto said:


> A warmblood is a horse that is mixed with a hot blooded horse(TB, arabian) and a cold blooded horse(most draft horses)


Thank you, but I understand that much. I mean I cannot tell the difference between a Dutch Warmblood and an Iberian Warmblood, and stuff like that. They all look the same to me; Thoroughbreds with thicker leg bones, haha.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Lol, they look the same to me too!  

I know a lady who had ones that she did 6+foot show jumping on that were 17.3-18.2.. skywalkers!! :rofl: *random information*


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

toto said:


> A warmblood is a horse that is mixed with a hot blooded horse(TB, arabian) and a cold blooded horse(most draft horses)


While this may be how "warmbloods" originated this statement is incorrect today. Warmbloods now are very much breeds and types. You can not simply cross a draft over a thoroughbred and call it a warmblood. That is a draft cross. 

Warmbloods include breeds like Hanoverian, Holsteiner, Oldenburg, Trakehner, Dutch Warmblood, Swedish Warmblood, etc and have undergone a lot of careful and selective breeding to make them what they are today. They are subject to inspections and approvals to ensure that they meet the standards of their particular registry. 

Telling them apart is not something I am good at so will leave that for someone else to answer, but just wanted to clarify that there is a lot more to a Warmblood than cold + hot.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Jalter said:


> What are all the common types of Warmbloods?


There are so many warmblood breeds of horse the list would be pretty long (and still end up missing some). From the very old warmblood breeds (Lipizzaner, Friesian, Andalusian, etc.....), the very common breeds (QH, TWH, etc.....) to the newer breeds developed in more recent history (e.g. Dutch Warmblood, American Warmblood, etc....).
There are probably more "warm blood" horse breeds than hot or cold breeds.
Their skills, abilities and apperances are not all held in common. Some tend to be good eventers, some good working horses, some better at show, some sleeker, some stockier, some tall, some short.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I have in recent years heard Standardbreds referred to as "american warmbloods". They can make great jumpers but as others have said its breed lineage. I think an element is popularity. People started calling Standardbreds American Warmbloods in part of feed off the desire for everyone and an uncle to have a "warmblood". Its technically true that they are historic combination of draft and light horses; however, they also have other extinct breeds in them like the narragansett pacer and others. I just never think of them as a warmblood but just Standardbreds.


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## BigGirlsRideWarmbloods (Mar 28, 2010)

I really hate the term "American Warmblood" and I have a really hard time accepting them as a true breed. IMHO, it's seems like a bunch of draft crosses, grade horses &/or a few good european warmbloods crossed with whatever was laying around on the farm and given "papers". Its like calling a mutt a "designer breed". 

The most common Warmblood breeds are the European breeds:
There's a big cluster of Dutch and German breeds; Oldenburgs (ISR), Hanovarians, Holstiners, Trakehners, KWPN, Dutch Warmbloods.

And then there are more Westen European Warmbloods: the French Selle Francias, Swedish Warmbloodand the Irish Sport Horse, as well as the Spanish Baroque breeds, the P.R.E., Lusitano, Fresians and Andalusians. 

These are horses that have been specifically need for hundreds of years for the purpose of warfare, which evolved in to the sport of eventing and continue to be bred specifically for the three sports of eventing or any of it's individual disciplines. 

The thing about Warmbloods is that the reason they look similar is because Warmbloods are a type if horse rather than a breed; think of the like pony or draft. If you take a look at the breeds you can see there named for the area they're derived from, take the German horses, they're are named for the city or regions they're derived from, Hanover, Oldenburg and Holstein. While they're WERE originally created by breeding if horses in those regions to get a "type", that selective breeding was done in the 13th -15th centuries. The foundation breeding of European Warmblood breeds, to develop a singular type and breed was done 500-800 years ago, where as this is only BARELY starting to occur for American Warmbloods. American Warmbloods have barely picked a name; as it is there are two registries (American Warmblood Society and American Warmblood Registry) with very different ideas about what an American Warmblood is.

To complicate what a warmblood is and how the breeds are different, Traditional European Warmbloods registries usually have open stud books and the horses are registered and inspected. 

With QHs you breed two AQHA horses and you have a registered QH. Right?

My Swedish Warmblood mare is actually 1/2 SWB by her sire Juvel, but her Dam is registered Hanovarian. I bred my SWB mare with a foundation Irish Draught, for an Irish Draught Sport Horse. 

Traditionally the foal is registered with the Sire breed registery, but you can choose either, especially b/c Mares are consider half of the equation and are just as or in some cases more important than the stallion, so registering with the dams registry (if its different), is an option.

So you usually get a provisional or lower class basic registration with a foal, but in order to get a full registration, or be entered in to the stud book you have to be inspected at an official inspection, and be given a high enough rating and classification. Mares and geldings too. In some breed registries if you breed your mare that hasn't been inspected and approved for breeding, you cannot get any provisional papers and you cannot register with them.

As if this wasn't enough, some Warmblood registries will accept outside recognized Warmbloods and accept them for inspection and give them an registration for that other registry, even though neither parent is that breed.

Again my SWB mare, by SWB sire out of a Hanovarian dam, has also been inspected and is registered in ISR/Oldenburg Main Mare Book.

There are fads with breeding, it's cyclical, breeders want more of the sleeker TB look, so for a couple of generations they selectively breed the thinner lankier horses mixing in some foundation TB blood. But then a couple of decades go by and powerhouse muscle is the new vouge, so breeders seek breed the sturdier built horses, adding in an approved foundation Irish Draught or baroque to build stature. 

Contrary to popular belief, having an open stud book is more difficult than having a closed stud book. 

With a closed stud book no one looks at the horse, you have the history of paperwork says what breed it is. (Jockey Club sire to Jockey club dam, and a live cover cert, it's a TB.)

But to be a Warmblood, you still have to have the paperwork, and while there's more outside influence accepted, the registry will tell you if qualify to be their breed, and at what QUALITY you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

BigGirlsRideWarmbloods said:


> I really hate the term "American Warmblood" and I have a really hard time accepting them as a true breed. _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
"American Warmblood" isn't an actual "breed", but then neither are some of the European "Warmblood". They are "breeds" or crosses that are accepted by the registreing associations. Most actual warmblood "breeds" don't have Warmblood in there name (Europe: Oldenburg, Hanoverian, Holsteiner, etc.... America: ASB, STB, TWH, etc....). It's more of a registry than an actual "breed". Indeed there are so many actual breeds that can be registered as "American Warmblood" that I often wonder why they even bothered to create the association other than it gives people the ability to register warmblood crosses as something. 
A bit like the "Sport Horse" "breeds".

Not that there's anything wrong with it. I personally love cross breeding. How do people think all these breeds came into being and how they've been improved? No breed just "appeared" one day and remained "pure" for a thousand+ years.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

BigGirlsRideWarmbloods said:


> And then there are more Westen European Warmbloods: the French Selle Francias, Swedish Warmbloodand the Irish Sport Horse, as well as the Spanish Baroque breeds, the P.R.E., Lusitano, Fresians and Andalusians.



The Selle Francias mostly originated from the French Trotter and the French Anglo Arab. The Andalusian descended from the Barb and most probably Sorraian ponies, the Lusitano is very closely related to the Andalusian, and the Friesian was more or less an Andalusian x draft cross. And the Irish Sport Horse is not a breed, it's a sport horse. If you meant the Irish Draught, it does have Thoroughbred blood but not draft blood, despite its name.

So, if a warmblood is supposed to be a breed that originated as hotblood x coldblood, then none of those breeds qualify. I have heard Andalusian breeders take offense at their horses being called warmbloods. (I know there are people selling "Iberian warmbloods" now but that's just a marketing gimmick. I guess people have forgotten that we already have a Thoroughbred x Andalusian breed... It's called the Quarter Horse!)


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## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

My riding instructor has an Andalusian stallion and some mares. Home - Artesian Sands Equestrian Services 
He is gorgeous! She sometimes uses him for lunge line lessons, can't wait for that day!


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

Trakehners are a BREED. The studbook does not allow any outside blood except for that of approved Thoroughbred and Arabian horses. 

So, while you can have a Trakehner inspected into other "breeds" studbooks, the reverse is not true. For example, I have a purebred Trakehner mare who is also approved Hanoverian for breeding. So, if bred to a Hanoverian approved stallion, the foal would be registered as Hanoverian. I would only be able to get part Trakehner papers on a foal out of her by a non-Trakehner (unless it is a TB or Arabian) stallion, and it would never be eligible for inspection into the Trakehner studbook, nor would its' future offspring. 

Similarly, Thoroughbred and Arabian stallions have to be inspected and approved and complete performance requirements just like a Trakehner stallion does, only their inspection scores must be HIGHER than a purebred Trakehner (same with the mares, the minimum approval scores are higher). After all, if you are adding "improvement blood" back into a gene pool, it should be exceptional.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I find that interesting Joie, what exactly are they looking for in the breed? I am just thinking of hybrid vigor (or something similar) to which allowing in "new blood" makes sense. I am just confused buy your mare's dual registry. How is she both? 

I think the water has been significantly muddied in recent years. The boom in warm blood popularity has led lots of folks to attach the name "warmblood" to anything thats big. I think it has also created a number of registries that seem to encourage the breeding of draft and light horses (which are basically grades). I just think its sort of that muddy world where you can't get 400 dollars for your TB but can get 40,000 for its foal out of a draft stud. 

I also wonder what folks thoughts are on highbred vigor in these cases. In theory, as I understand, they started breeding drafts to light horses to get horses that were substantial in bone but quick on feet. So, after you have a few generations of a pure breed you can run into those traits you bred for not being present or coming along with not-so great traits. Is there a benefit to opening up stud books to exceptional animals that are not not of that breed?


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

This explains a bit better than I can:

THE TRAKEHNER BREED AND THE THOROUGHBRED

But, essentially, it is to keep the breed pure, without resorting to other "warmblood" bloodlines. Breeding to a TB or Arab is not considered "outcrossing". The Trakehner gene pool is relatively small, as well, compared to the other warmbloods, because "outside blood" isn't allowed. Anyway...

My mare isn't REGISTERED Hanoverian, but she IS approved for breeding by the AHS. SO, *if* I were to breed her to an approved Hanoverian, that FOAL could be registered Hanoverian. Most European Warmblood "breeds" (registries) allow outside blood, and are looking for a particular TYPE rather than breed lines, per se. I also have a Trakehner mare that is approved Westphalian. I just happen to only breed Trakehners and Anglo-Trakehners, because it is important to me to keep the breed what it was intended to be. I have nothing "against" other warmbloods, but Trakehners are my breed. 

As far as crossing a draft horse with a TB and calling it a warmblood, well...there is one born every day who will fall for that. It's akin to someone breeding "labradoodles" or something else and claiming to have a breed, not a mutt. IMO *breeds* are created through generations of successful matching and culling, looking for specific traits. You can't just take "hot" and "cold" and get warm, but every day I see ads for "warmbloods" advertised. It's sort of like the people who will cross ANY black mare, of any breed, with a Friesian. Just not smart, and, frankly, irresponsible. 

REAL Warmbloods, such as a Hanoverian, Oldenburg, etc. are more than just a mix of this and that, even if the bloodlines are a "mix" of blood originally from one region and another. There are breed (registry) standards, and the inspection process provides accountability. Horses cannot simply be bred to whatever and produce studbook eligible offspring.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<~~~~~~~~~~ My Trakehner.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

toto said:


> A warmblood is a horse that is mixed with a hot blooded horse(TB, arabian) and a cold blooded horse(most draft horses)


GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


Sorry, HUUUUUUGE pet peeve of mine. 

Warmbloods are specific breeds that have developed from selective breeding. Draft crosses are just that: Draft crosses.


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

I might also mention that a hot cross and cold cross does not actually make the horse an "American Warmblood." The American Warmblood is a Registration and/or Society. The Society does not take draft blood. The horse is simply a draft cross or other cross unless it is registered and a member of either the AWR or AWS. This is my biggest pet peeve. People saying they have an AWR or AWS horse when it is not actually registered! Register your horse first before you call it that! 

Don't get me wrong.... love draft crosses. Have one myself. She is not AWR or AWS. She is a draft cross.


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

BaileyJo said:


> I might also mention that a hot cross and cold cross does not actually make the horse an "American Warmblood." The American Warmblood is a Registration and/or Society. *The Society does not take draft blood.* The horse is simply a draft cross or other cross unless it is registered and a member of either the AWR or AWS. This is my biggest pet peeve. People saying they have an AWR or AWS horse when it is not actually registered! Register your horse first before you call it that!
> 
> Don't get me wrong.... love draft crosses. Have one myself. She is not AWR or AWS. She is a draft cross.


The American Warmblood SOCIETY most certainly DOES take draft blood:

Warmbloods | Sport Horses | Dressage Horses 

The American Warmblood REGISTRY does not.


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

Joie said:


> The American Warmblood SOCIETY most certainly DOES take draft blood:
> 
> Warmbloods | Sport Horses | Dressage Horses
> 
> The American Warmblood REGISTRY does not.


My bad. Got the two mixed up. Still the same PET PEEVE.


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