# Rain scald



## Can He Star (Mar 9, 2011)

katy check this out !
http://www.equusite.com/articles/health/healthRainRot.shtml


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Pop to the chemist and buy a bottle of Nizoral shampoo - it is brillient for getting rid of rain scald/mudfever and greasy heel.

Dilute in hand hot water, lather up and work well into the skin. Leave for 10 mins and scrape off excess. No need to rinse.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks for the tips 

Another thing is rugging - he has some pink skin over his hind quarters, and the weather is really hotting up now, it's going to be sunny and 35*c + tomorrow and through to next week. So now I'm debating whether or not to rug him, I've heard the bacteria that causes rain scald is anaerobic, so putting a rug on will be favourable to the bacteria, but if I don't rug him, he'll burn.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

The rainscald is caused by a fungus initially, loves wet/damp warm areas - that's why it is important to wash with the Nizoral ASAP. If the skin breaks down because the scabs have been pulled/picked off then there is a risk of picking up a bacterial infection.

In winter when I've had horses arrive with rain scald - i've washed with the Nizoral and then covered as you need to protect the skin. With the pink skin on her rump I'd be puttig on a light sheet that will protect her from the sun.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks Tnavas, I've put a light flag sheet over him today, and have been scrubbing the infected areas thoroughly twice daily to keep everything clean, plus disinfecting everything that comes into contact with the area. 

This horse has given me no end of issues, hock problems have had him out for 18 months, bouts of colic, join infection and cellulitis, muscle spasms caused by a pinched nerve, now rain scald and this morning he's come up with another bout of swelling in a hind leg. *sigh* Through all the horses I've had, I have never had one so prone to illness and injury.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

your horse is vitamin A deficient. yes rain rot is a fungus, but with enough vitamin A the horses own immune system will kill it.
BTW the fungus is contagios and can pass to other horses with blankets or grooming tools.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

So every horse that gets rain rot is Vit A deficient? :/ Don't know if I buy that sorry, this horse is the most carefully looked after horse, I have him blood tested every 6 months as well as having him worm counted etc. And have never had anything come back as Vit A deficient. i bumped into my vet this morning on the way to work and he said there's a lot of it going around at the moment with the unusual tropical weather we've had in the last couple of weeks. I think there's more to it than Vit A deficiency. 

He is separated from the other horses, and as I posted just above, I have been disinfecting everything that comes into contact with him.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Sorry, I just realised what a snappy response that was. I just got abused for being female by yet another student at work so was feeling a little short.
I really don't feel that it would be because he is lacking in anything, as I said, I am absolutely festidious with keeping the horse sound and healthy because of how many problems I've had with him. I spend nearly 1/3 of my wage each month on keeping just him going, and have always been very careful with his diet, making sure everything is balance, depending on changing seasons etc.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Google "rain rot and vitamin A". Lots of research. You asked for help. I gave it. Sorry if you dont like the answer. It is a fungus and its always around and needs certain conditions to cause problems. "Lot's of it going around" could be a direct result of most horses in the area eating the same vitamin deficient hay. Or who knows what else. Various shampoos, mouthwash, betadine, lysol, pretty much any strong disinfectant will kill the fungus. But unless you correct the underlying condition that is causing the infection. It will re occur. Like putting her blanket back on. all her tack should be disinfected.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Its a him, and I have said 3 times now that all gear that has come into contact with him has been disinfected. He has not worn a blanket for some months now as he is spelling in the paddock recovering from injury, so the blanket on him right now has come straight out of a sealed plastic tub after being washed thoroughly after last being worn. 
I just had a chat with my vet as I was curious about the Vit A, he said that is NOT the cause in Hugo's case, his levels were fine when he last had bloods done 2 months ago and have been fine every time he's had bloods done previously. He is on hard feed and supplements as well as hay.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

NZ & Ausie horses are very unlikely to be Vit A deficient as they get a massive amount of sun. More likely to be deficient in Copper and zinc both needed for strong skin structure.

It is not that infectous either as some will have it in the paddock and others not.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Vitamin A has nothing to do with sunlight, you have that confused with Vitamin D. The fungus is around and alot of horses with healthy immune system have it on their skin or hair but it doesnt cause an outbreak, It also needs a break in the skin to get a foot hold can be as simple as a fly bite or scratches.
In this case exposure + injury (possible weakened immunity maybe ?) then sunburn offering skin injuries making access much easier. 
You mentioned injury. Is the horse on medication ? Just throwing this out there but I seem to recall taking something once that had a warning label on the bottle that said avoid sunlight as a side affect was less resistance to sunburn. If you cant find a source for a weakend immune system, just keep cleaning him with a disinfectant. If you can find concentrated lysol and mix that with water, spray the areas like you would fly spray and brush him. Keep doing it every other day or so for a week after it appears to be gone.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Joe4d said:


> Vitamin A has nothing to do with sunlight, you have that confused with Vitamin D.


Realise that now  - that's what happens when you reply to a post when you are really hungry!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

His injury is a long going injury, he raced until he was 7 with 32 starts behind him, so now his hocks are fusing among a few other issues with his joints. None of his treatment for that would weaken his immune system, he's on Pentosan injections, as well as joint supplementation.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

It is always Vitamin A. We have been treating horses that have come in with rain rot by using Vitamin A for about 40 years now. It works 100% of the time. 

You do not have worry about disinfecting horses or tack if it is not ringworm. Ringworm is a true pathogen. The Bacteria and Fungi that cause rain rot are normal inhabitants of soil, so every horse is exposed to it all of the time. If their immune system is healthy and their skin is healthy, you cannot give it to them if you tried. 

The same thing is true of lice. You cannot keep them off of a horse with a Vitamin A deficiency and you can't give them to a horse with healthy skin and a good immune system.

When we encounter rain rot, we give a horse 2 or 3 doses of Vitamin A (usually mixed with D and E) by using the injectable form used for cattle. We just give it orally and do not inject it. I use about 5cc a week until the good feed or supplements kick in. Then, we start them on our feed which is a custom mix and has an A-D-E premix added to it at the feed mill. We also use a loose mineral that has 150,000 units of Vitamin A per pound in it. We are very picky that they get plenty in the winter and spring. Horses will never get rain rot again as long as they are healthy and getting plenty of Vitamin A. 

If you do not have access to fortified feed, you can use a supplement made by Farnam called 'Mare Plus'. It has a high level of the antioxident Vitamins and does not have a lot of the ones that make horses get high and silly. 

Other symptoms of a Vitamin A deficiency include:

Runny, goopy or crusty eyes with stains running down from them.

Night Blindness.

Frequent bouts of Uveitis.

Scaly skin, bad hair coats, dandruff and susceptibility to rain rot, dew poisoning and scratches. Slow shedding with no other cause (like Cushings).

Lice -- usually in late winter and early spring in the US.

Mares that do not drop their afterbirth within a few minutes of foaling.

Problems breeding mares back after foaling.

Poor hooves and slow hoof growth. 

All of these things are directly influenced by a lack of Vitamin A. 

Horses get Vitamin A from the Carotene in their feed. Hay and stored feed does not keep Vitamin A in it for more than a month or two, so during the winter season, horses run out of Vitamin A. Vutamin A and the other fat soluble Vitamins are stored n the liver. They liver runs out in the fall and the horse is susceptible until the green grass comes out in the spring. 

Some horses evidently store Vitamin A better than others. It will be the same horses, year after year, that get lice and rain rot before the grass greens up. 

I have been recommending Vitamin A for about 40 years now, and not one person that has supplemented it has not had a problem with a single healthy horse since. 

I have no idea why so many Vets are clueless about this, but they are. They also are not very up on other points of nutrition. I think they make more money selling a bunch of crap you don't need. I have known several people that insisted on using baths and sprays and salves and all kinds of labor intensive and expensive junk that the Vet sold them and fought rain rot until spring and then, miraculously it went away -- the same time the grass greened up. You cannot kill it and keep it gone if the horse just keeps getting it all over again.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I'll give a Vit A supplement a go then, but other than this bout of rain rot, he previously has not had any of the other symptoms you have listed. He's always got clear eyes, a beautiful soft, shiny coat (as shiny as a grey can be anyway) and good hoof growth. 
I am wondering now, about his immune system being down. Over the last couple of days, I've had problems with his hind legs swelling, and he has dropped a little weight. I've called a couple of vets around this morning, but no one will come out until after the public holidays unless for an acute emergency. A few people have mentioned Ross River virus, which has been quite common in the area for the last few months, and he's showing similar symptoms.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Very few horses get more than 1 or 2 of the symptoms. Some horses just get lice every winter. Others have goopy eyes. I think it hits each horse on that horse's 'weakest link'. 

What is the Ross River Virus? Thank goodness there is one thing that we don't get here.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Ross River Virus fact sheet - 
http://www.kohnkesown.com/admin/prod_photos/Image/File/rossrivervirus.pdf


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

OP, my horse has this same thing. It has progressively gotten worse! Started with just a few scabs, which I quickly removed as to finding what it was. Since then I have tried everything in the barn that says antifungal, or rain rot on it. Ive tried shampoos, sprays, dish soap, and even listerine. Nothing has cleared it up. Its gotten to the point where its all over his hind end, and has even gone down onto his hind legs. It is now slowly creeping up his back as well.

People at the barn have told me to dilute bleach and spray that on him. Dont want to do that obviously. I just bought some Vitamin A in hopes that something will help get rid of this stuff. I will let you know how it works! Good Luck!


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

If you are feeding a vitamin fortified feed then be very careful about feeding any additional supplements. As an oil based vitamin Vitamin A can be overdosed and the overdosing is more of a worry than underdosing. Horses on green pasture rarely suffer from Vitamin A deficiency. 

Skin health/strength can be compromised by the lack of minerals Zinc and Copper and safe supplementing of these is far easier than giving additional vitamins. A soil sample can be easily collected and tested for these minerals. If you think your horse may be deficcient in Vitamin A you need to talk to your vet.

Please read this information sheet before dosing your horse with any additional oil based vitamins. These are vitamins A, D, E & K are all oil based which means they are stored by the body and if given too much can be toxic.
Vitamin A in Horses

Note to cherie - My horses live totally on grass, live out year round, uncovered - they get no hard feed, no supplements but get a multi mineral block that they have free access to. They don't get mudfever or any other problems - vet has only seen them for routine vaccinations. While you may think your treatment with Vitamin A has been the reason for the health of your horses it is more likely that your general care is good and even if you didn't give the Vitamin A they would still become healthy in your care.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> Google "rain rot and vitamin A". Lots of research. You asked for help. I gave it. Sorry if you dont like the answer. It is a fungus and its always around and needs certain conditions to cause problems. "Lot's of it going around" could be a direct result of most horses in the area eating the same vitamin deficient hay. Or who knows what else. Various shampoos, mouthwash, betadine, lysol, pretty much any strong disinfectant will kill the fungus. But unless you correct the underlying condition that is causing the infection. It will re occur. Like putting her blanket back on. all her tack should be disinfected.


 
I had heard this , too. Have no idea if it's true or not. But Zulu has rainrot, and it's by no means hot or humid here, just cold and damp. And, if like many virus , it's present all the time but only manifests at certain times, maybe it is due to some kind of dietary deficiancey combined with a genetic predisposisiton to susceptabiliy.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Well turns out the cause is not rain, not directly a fungus, and not Vitamin C deficiency. 
Had the vet to him yesterday as he started going quite drastically downhill, both hind legs swelled severely, he was very flat, dehydrated and his temp flew up to over 39*C. 

It seems he has managed to get himself a bacterial infection. With the tropical weather, we've had an influx in 'tropical bugs'. It looks like this bacteria has entered through a scratch on his hind leg, and the first symptom was a rain-scald like skin condition which is spreading at a very fast rate. The vet had seem some horses that had been caught late in the infection and nearly died, as it can turn toxic and shut down their organs. 

So he's on a double dose of penicillin, being buted to try and ease some of the swelling and pain, another strong antibiotic ointment for his skin, and had 3L of saline fluids. 

As I said... this horse likes to do a good job when he is 'in the wars' *sigh*


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## onions (Dec 25, 2011)

Nizoral shampoo


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

wow that sounds horrible ! i hope he gets better very soon !


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Wow Kayty poor boy hope he gets better fast - healing vibes coming your way


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Again -- it is totally a failure of the immune system. Horses with a good immune system cannot be given it -- no matter if you share blankets, brushes, etc.

It is very difficult to reach toxic levels of Vitamin A. You can feed 100,000 units a day for years and have no ill effects. As a matter of fact, the last comprehensive study I read about used that level to study horses and recommended that level for horses with immune problems, particularly skin and/or eye problems.

It is not caused by a virus. It can be caused by bacteria or fungi but is most often caused by bacteria that normally inhabit the soil. It is exacerbated by damp conditions, but can occur any time of year under any conditions if the horse is not able to fight it off. It is also seen quite often when there is no green grass and the horse has not had grass or freshly cut hay for 2 or 3 months. 

Horses store it in their livers. Some store it better than others. But the bottom line is that healthy horses with good immune systems just do not get it.

The same is true of lice. Can't give them to a healthy horse. Can't kill them on one with immune system problems in late winter or early spring. An old (like 75 years old) Vet friend of mine puts it this way: "When someone comes to me in March with a bunch of calves that are being eaten up with lice -- I tell them to dust and spray them and do it 2 or 3 times and it will take about 6 weeks to get rid of them. Then I tell them that if they do nothing, there will be green grass in 6 weeks and they will clear up when they have been on grass for 1 week. It all depends on how much time and money you want to spend." Actually, you feed them a good loose mineral with 150,000 to 200,000 units of Vitamin A per pound or feed a calf feed with 10,000 until per pound in it, calves will never get lice in the winter.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I had heard this , too. Have no idea if it's true or not. But Zulu has rainrot, and it's by no means hot or humid here, just cold and damp. And, if like many virus , it's present all the time but only manifests at certain times, maybe it is due to some kind of dietary deficiancey combined with a genetic predisposisiton to susceptabiliy.


Firstly Rain rot is not a virus but is a fungus. If the skin becomes broken - horse rubs scabs off or owner picks them off it can then pickup a bacterial infection. Some horses are very susceptable to this fungal infection. Eg - I moved from one end of the country to the other with my horses one of which I had owned for 8 years, the first year he was fine then he went to one of my students on lease and promptly got mudfever on all his white socks. He was a really healthy horse - he'd never had the vet for anything in all the time I'd owned him. Fed very basic feeds with just a multi mineral block to help himself. We sorted it promptly with the Nizoral and it never came back again.

Many horses will get rain rot in the winter months - either from being exposed to the elements - no cover, or they may be wearing a rug that has leaked in the rain and left them with a damp lining against the skin, supplying the ideal place for the fungus to grow. I have seen some horses with large bare patches on the top of their rumps from just this situation. 

Wash with Nizoral and the rain rot will go within days. Make sure that you wash well beyond the affected area as well as being a fungus it always spreads outwards in an ever widening circle - just like the mushroom rings you see in the fields in late summer.

It is interesting to see that more and more people have horses that suffer from fungal infections than in the past. I've worked in the equine industry fo over 40years and have seen the vast change in medical conditions the horses have developed. Much I have put down to the increase in the use of commercially prepared feeds. Feeds full of ingredients that have been historically known for not being good for horses. A massive increase in the use of molasses to bind feeds - fungus LOVES sugar! I remember very few horses or ponies wore covers/rugs/blankets and were as healthy as the day is long. We rarely saw the vet yet we rarely if ever gave our horses any supplements. They got straight oats, barley, meadow chaff and damped with water or sugarbeet. They had good feet and were exceptionally healthy.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this was from the article posted by Can He Star:

*What causes rain rot?* 

The organism dermatophilus congolensis causes rain rot. dermatophilus congolensis is not a fungus. It is an actinomycetes, which behaves like both bacteria and fungi. Most


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> this was from the article posted by Can He Star:
> 
> *What causes rain rot?*
> 
> The organism dermatophilus congolensis causes rain rot. dermatophilus congolensis is not a fungus. It is an actinomycetes, which behaves like both bacteria and fungi.


Dermatophilus is the secondary infection - they all start off with a fungal infection. I've been doing a lot of study on this problem for the past five years or more - as I have access to stables of TB's coming in from spelling many with various stages of rain rot/mudfever/greasy heel. 

Vets rarely ever see the above in it's early stages and my local equine vet and also a couple of vets I've been working with in the UK will agree to this totally. They are also now advising their clients to use the Nizoral first before treating with antibiotics.

The first thing that people tend to do is to try and remove the scabs. As these are not normal scabs covering an open wound they do not agree to being pulled off. They are made of lymph that has oozed through the skin as a result of the fungal infection - there is no open wound at this time. The lymph congeals around the hairs making a tough scab, note the colour - not reddish but generally yellowish. Owner then forces this scab off which has the same effect as waxing your legs! You pull out the hairs that have been glued together. If the area bleeds then the skin is now broken allowing bacteria to enter the wound. As dermatophilus is generally present in the soil this is the one most likely to get into the wound. The wound then becomes infected and as the fungus has not yet been treated the scabby area expands outwards. 

We've all been through the frustrating situation of clearing up one spot to find mud fever has appeared further around the leg. This is typical fungal behaviour - they expand by ejecting spores outwards. Wash firstly with Nizoral or another shampoo that contains Ketaconisol and if you was well beyond the currently damaged are you're unlikely to have further problems. Pick off the scabs and you will! Not only will you end up with a costly vets bill but also a miserable horse that gets more and more grumpy as you take weeks trying to get his skin better.


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