# Ok I'm Ready :)



## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

Well I have been holding off in posting here as I have seen how it can get a bit violent
but here goes

This is my horse Buzz he need to gain some weight and some muscles but I want to know about his conformation
he is 14 year old tb


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

You are right, he definately needs to gain weight(good weight) and muscle!! His butt is more flat than round so that needs some work. He looks like he might be a little cowhocked in the back, but that could just be the way he is standing. I can't tell much on the front legs. Try to get a picture of him standing in front of you with the full frong leg picture instead of just the upper portion.

Other than that, he looks really cute!


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## flyingyellowhorse (Mar 23, 2010)

Unfortunately, with all the angles these photos were taken at, it makes critique almost impossible. You see how in the first one he looks dramatically downhill, but in the second picture not so much? Like I said, pretty impossible to comment on  Get some pictures of him standing square on level ground (not sand), both sides, front and back views. He's a cutie though!


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## Rule of Reason (Feb 11, 2010)

Also one where he is holding his head at least at wither height and is not turning his head. And never mind the straight-on front and back shots, just a good side shot is enough, but make sure the ground level is even. Like the second picture in this set, but more so. Stand him on a hard, flat surface if possible.


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

ok sorry first time haha I will try and get some better side on views next time I go out 
but thanks for attempting with my the photos I have


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> His butt is more flat than round so that needs some work.


what would you suggest for his butt??
I mean I do lots of trotting and have recently set up trot poles to help and if whenever I go past hill ride up them lol but anything else that could help?


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

ok hopefully these will do I couldn't really find flat ground as the padock is all dirt and I couldn't get him to stand square for the life of me :roll:
And again I know he is skinny and lack of muscle but he has 24/7 acsess to hay and I am trying on building up his muscle with mainly trot work trot poles and hills whenever I see them if you have any other suggestions I am happy to learn


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Very very beautiful horse. But hee needs more weight hes got the biggest withers but hes adorablee.

I do agree maybe a little cow hocked I dont know like the other user said, it could be how hes standing.
He needs more weight though good luck with him


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

He looks cowhocked; could just be the way he was standing. Once he gains weight he'll be a pretty nice-looking horse confo-wise, IMO!


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Hey there, just thought I would let you know that feeding him hay and doing trot work is not going to put weight on him. 

I know that you are aware of how skinny he is but he needs a comprehensive nutrition plan above and beyond hay, I can see a lot of ribcage in the photo's. I would suggest that he needs a rigorous worming regimen for the next six months along with a lot of extra feed, twice daily I would suggest to allow his digestive system to adjust to the new diet.

Protein builds muscle, not fibre. Unfortunately it is a catch-22 situation with horses (especially TB's) as more protein means more energy so you may also notice changes in behaviour. Just wanted to mention this in case you are still wondering why he is skinny in 3 months time. Seems like you really love him and no wonder, he looks like a sweetheart!


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

sarahver said:


> I would suggest that he needs a rigorous worming regimen for the next six months along with a lot of extra feed, twice daily I would suggest to allow his digestive system to adjust to the new diet.


You might want to talk to your vet about deworming for tapeworm as well, which is basically double-deworming. It can make a world of difference in some horses!


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## stal (Apr 24, 2010)

You could feed him "all in one" and cantering/galloping will help him build muscle. I agree with the other post, just hay isnt going to help him.


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

he gets fed hard feed as well  but only once daily 
he does get wormed regurulary as well he got wormed I think about a month ago now
but thankyou for everyone information what would you suggest for a protien food?


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Can you tell us what is in the hard feed he is being given including measurements? Then it might be easier to give advice as to what to add however you should build a feed regime up gradually so the horse has time to adjust.

Personally, I like Mitavite Xtra cool as it shouldn't heat him up too much. I think it is roughly 15% protein and you feed it with equal amounts of oaten and lucern chaff. I would aim to feed 3kg of Xtra Cool with 3kg of Oaten chaff and 3kg of lucerne chaff a day (split into two different feeds, morning and night). Xtra Cool is good as it contains many of the supplements that he will need such as magnesium, selenium, calcium, vitamins etc etc. Also it is steam extracted which makes it easier to digest.

Another good product is Cool Conditioner, it is oat free, protein content comes from soybean, copra and something else, I forget. You use less of this product, roughly 2kg CC-3kg oaten chaff-3kg lucerne chaff but it works well.

Another good trick is to add a handful of black sunflower seads to the feed, they are full of omega 3 fats so will help with weight and will make his coat very very shiny!

Having said this, it depends on the horse and what you intend to do with him so you may find that this is too much or not enough. Don't look for instant results, with the condition he is in I would guess it will take a few months before you really start to notice a difference.

Don't be disheartened! The gray horse in my avatar picture was in far far worse shape than yours when I got her. It took about four months before she had put on weight, built muscle and was ready for hard work. 

Hope this helps!


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

My horse when I first got him was skinny like that... He was an Welara and very high spirited. We gave him complete feed and wet beet pulp.. It seemed to do the trick


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok I'm not to sure what the measurement is but its a scoop it would be slightly bigger then an icecream contanier I will look tonight to see if there is any measurement on it 
But he gets 3-4 scoops of shandy chaff which has lucene in it then 1 scoop of mill mix and then half to a full scoop of pellets
then he has full acess to meadow hay
somedays they get let out to the grass paddock but not often as that is where the house is and either me or my friend have to be there to open and close the gate because her family doesnt really have horse sense
This is also the reason he can only get fed once a day as my friend likes horses and has her own pony shes not as really into them as I am and I would wake up early but then I would have to wake my mum or my dad to take me over there to feed


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

the scoop has no measurement :-|


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Ok, it is a little hard to read your post as it is ALL IN ONE SENTENCE!!! Ha ha not to worry I think I got it. 

I know it is hard when you are young and don't have your own transport. Is there any chance you and your friend could share the feeding duties? Also, if there is a house on the property, would the people consider putting feed out in the morning if you prepared it the night before? 

As for your current feed, what kind of pellets are you giving him? How long have you been giving him hard feed?


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

haha sorry 
but I'm glad you could read it. 
The pellets he gets now are just pony cubes nothing special, I did have him on some equijewel pellets a little while back, but they weren't really doing anything special and were way expensive.
He has been getting hard feed for as long as I can remember him so about a year or so but not to sure what he was given before then
I will also talk to my friend about feed in morining as I think I can figure something out


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I would concentrate on putting weight on him before you worry about getting muscle on him. It hardly matters how much you feed him if you're working it all off. Also, you need fat to make muscle.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Correction: You need protein to make muscle. Fat does not 'turn in' to muscle.

Put him on a good protein supplement like fat cat. TBs tend to do REALLY well with extra protein--a lot of TBs can inhale hay and never gain a pound. It will also help since you're only feeding grain once a day. Perhaps get a high quality feed?


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok thankyou, I will have to get something to give him protien, I may have to ask my local stockfeeds what they have in stock.


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## bethsone (Feb 22, 2010)

i would get yourself some weight lifter! I feed it religiously to my TB he's a18h and can get thin over night!! good luck i know the pains of keeping weight on a tb


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

RedTree said:


> The pellets he gets now are just pony cubes nothing special, I did have him on some equijewel pellets a little while back, but they weren't really doing anything special and were way expensive.


Yes, EquiJewel is very expensive, over priced in my opinion! The two feeds that I suggested in my earlier post (Xtra Cool and Cool Conditioner) are much more affordable. A 20kg bag should cost no more than $20-$25 (I think, it's been a few months since I bought feed in Australia) so will be much much cheaper and will produce the same result. If you are using an ice cream tub as a measurement, how big is it? If it is only a 1 or 2 litre tub I think you may need to double the quantities that you are giving him. As I mentioned before however, changing feed regimes should be gradual so introduce new feeds over a period of a few weeks.

Try adding the black sunflower seeds for some healthy fats also. If he has been hard fed for a year and is still skinny it sounds like there is an underlying health issue, or you are simply not feeding enough. If he doesn't put on any weight after a few months of increased feed you may want to have a vet out for a general check up and intensive worming.


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

He does gain wieght then he loses it again. But he has never been fat. 
I will ask around to see if I can find the Xtra Cool and Cool Conditioner do I need both or just one? If one whuch would be best.
I think I will deffiniatly need to buy some sunflower seeds how many would I give him. Around a handfull.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Yup, a handful of Black Sunnie seeds should be about right, he'll love them I bet  You can choose either feed, you only need to add one. I like the Mitavite Xtra Cool as it is full of vitamins as well as a good protein feed. See how it works for you and your boy and if it works for him. 

One of the reasons he may put weight on and then lose it is that TB's can be very sensitive to changes in season as there can be a big difference in the nutrients supplied in grass and hay. In spring to early summer the grass is full of nutrients, then at the end of summer when the grass begins to die, there is much less nutrition in it and this continues right through winter (it is approaching winter over there now right?) Even if it LOOKS like there is plent of grass/hay, there isn't much goodness in it this time of year so you just adjust you feed accordingly. Also, as it gets colder a good rug will help keep him warm which keeps condition on him too.

:wink::wink::wink:


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok thankyou soo much. 
I wil go around to the local stockfeed to see if they have them in stock.
And I will also get some sunflower seeds.
But thankyou soo very much. 
Your advice has been the best and you explained what I would need.


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## SarahHershey (Dec 17, 2009)

Also Try beet pulp, or rice brain, both are good to put on weight.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

RedTree said:


> Ok thankyou soo much.
> I wil go around to the local stockfeed to see if they have them in stock.
> And I will also get some sunflower seeds.
> But thankyou soo very much.
> Your advice has been the best and you explained what I would need.


My absolute pleasure, always happy to help people who clearly love their horses! Post more piccies soon


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm going to go against the crowd here and say that in the first set of pictures I wouldn't want to see too much more weight on him - he is just lacking muscle. He is actually quite a healthy weight in those pictures - It is quite normal and healthy to be abel to see a few ribs on a TB.

The second lot of pictures though do show him needign a bit of weight.


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## SarahHershey (Dec 17, 2009)

Please notice, he is bending inward, which hides his ribs and make him look more meaty than he is. When he is standing straight with his head straightforward you can easily visibly see all of his ribs.

In all horses you want to be able to see 1-3 ribs(just barely), and be able to feel all when you stroke your hand over them. He is underweight, and just because he is a TB, does not mean he gets to be thinner to be considered a good weight. His hip bone is also clearly seen, which should not be happening. 











3 is considered optimum, and 2 and 4 are considered okay because the horse is not in any immediate danger. Where as 0,1,and 5 are considered high risk. 

I would put him as a 2.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Again i'll state that I see a horse that is a different weight in the different sets of photos.

He is bending outward in the second photo, and I can only see the faint outline of maybe 2 ribs?

That funny patch of hair he has on his near side hip makes it look much more sunken than the other side, which doesn't have the patch. 

This is MY opinion and in my opinion, he is a good weight for his breed and height in the first set of pictures, but lacking muscle. Muscle will fill him out more, filling in those areas you think aren't perfect.


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## SarahHershey (Dec 17, 2009)

You can't say a horse is a good weight is 2 pictures and not in others, It didn't change in the 30 seconds betweent the photos, which is why you have to only go by the photo where he is standing straight, and looking straight, or the photos are not truly showing what is there.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ The two sets of photos were taken at completely different times. The horse did NOT grow a winter coat in the 30 seconds between photo taking.

The first set is in the first post - Here I do not see an underweight horse, simply an under-muscled horse.

The second set are further down the first page.


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## SarahHershey (Dec 17, 2009)

I was only refering to the first set. In the second, he is severly underweight especially since you can see it through all the fur.

Even in the first set you can EASILY count all his ribs in every picture but the first.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Seriously? You must have X-ray vision. I have perfect 20-20 vision and can only see the faint outline of maybe 2 ribs in the photo where he is bent away, which if I go by what you are saying, should have every rib clearly outlined.


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## SarahHershey (Dec 17, 2009)

yes seriously, and I have better that 20/20, but that is irrelevant. I spend every day with TBs and many other breeds,and I know a rib when I se one poking out. Even the owner says he's under weight. Don't you think you should AT LEAST take her word for it? People can get tunel vision when they want to. Just because your mind/eyes cannot see it means nithing as to if it's actually there.

now I'm going be the bigger person and stop. , the op know the horse is undrr weigt, and everyone else sees it. We should just continue with weight gain advice, and confo critique like she asked for.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Excuse me? You were the one who started this argument. I simply pointed out that I didn't feel the same as many posters, and would have left it at that, if you hadn't come in saying i'm WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. 

If you want to get into credentials, my dad's boss breed TB's so I see up to 30 TB's every day from foals through to the old decrepit ones. I also know a rib when I see one, and I do NOT see enoguh ribs to worry me in the first set of pictures.



> People can get tunel vision when they want to. Just because your mind/eyes cannot see it means nithing as to if it's actually there.


Yup, I agree with you - And the biggest example I see of this 'tunnel vision' is people jumping on horses saying they are underweight. Obesity is one of the biggest health issues for horses today - Everyone wants to see a fat, shiny horse, not realising that a horse is healthier when a bit skinny then when a bit fat. I have a constant struggle to keep my three easy keepers at a healthy weight and avoid obesity related disorders such as IR. I would love to have my ASH at a similar weight as the OP's horse in the first set of pictures. In saying that - he would also look completely different as he has overall good muscle tone.

You have fun thinking you are the bigger person - I will gladly stop when you step back and allow me my opinion.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I have to agree with wildspot on this one. The horse needs conditioning more than weight in the first set of photos.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Just so this debate doesn't confuse you RedTree, regardless of whether people believe he needs muscle only or muscle and weight combined, he will need a decent protein feed either way. Protein builds muscle. As originally stated.

Exactly how much condition is put on the horse is a matter of opinion and not a debate that I will enter, other than to say that RedTree mentioned she thought her horse was skinny and wanted to know how to build him up a bit. Also no-one is denying the horse needs weight in the second set of pictures so I guess there really is nothing to argue over anyway!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Your right, so why you started to is beyond me 

Good luck with your boy, Redtree!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Actually I never entered into any argument with anyone and am baffled as to why anyone would think that I did. I looked back over my posts and everything I wrote was purely advice directed to the OP. I haven't sought to discredit anyone's opinion at any stage or argue my point above anyone elses as I think everyone's opinion is valuable.

My last comment about there being nothing to argue about was meant to keep the peace to an extent, in a debate that seemed to be unnecessary.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh, duh - I'm very sorry, I mistook your post for one from someone else!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Agreed completely with wild_spot. Ribs are the absolute worst thing you can judge by on Thoroughbreds - I have seen some of the fattest TB's you can imagine, and they STILL had ribs showing. It's just a breed characteristic to be quite "bony" - the protruding wither, often spine and ribcage.

In the first set of photos, he looks very good I think. Definately needs some muscle, but he has good weight on him as is obvious by looking at the good padding around his hindquarters and shoulders. I agree the winter ones he has definately lost some weight, but I would be FAR from calling him emaciated or at immediate risk. I wouldn't want to see him losing much more weight then that, but I think people tend to forget how big and awkward TB's can look. And this boy IS also 14! If he was a racehorse previously and used hard, that can mean 20's in TB lingo.

I think sarahver had excellent advice on feeding him, it looks as if maybe he isn't holding up the greatest under the more intense work on what you're feeding him.

As for confo, I see a very typical gangly Thoroughbred - he doesn't have stellar confo, but I don't see anything so blinding that it looks to cause injury.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

wild_spot said:


> Oh, duh - I'm very sorry, I mistook your post for one from someone else!


That's OK, I was at a loss there for a moment! Not to worry


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## Juna (Apr 4, 2010)

In the first set of photos, I see a horse in good, healthy weight. I'm in the same boat as wild_spot -- I wish my easy keepers looked like that! 

Second set of pics - needs more weight. Beautiful horse, though!


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## missy567 (Jan 27, 2010)

Though I would have to agree TB's do always have a few ribs protruding and they do not carry a ton of weight well like a typical QH in the second set he does seem to need a few pounds and efinetly some muscle but in the first he looks like a healthy TB. I do not mean to argue with any one. This is just my personal opinion, im not a TB person and will probably never be, I pwn a TWH and he is a bit thin. But i would agree with some of the previous posts a slightly thin horse si in better shape then a slightly over weight horse. 
 If I offend any one im sorry please PM me instead of causing a roccus for the poster.


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

ok thankyou everyone one for the opinions shared 
He now has sunflower kernals? Couldn't find sunflower seeds but they still have protien in them. So hopefully they will do the same job
Next time I go out I will find the foods sarahver suggested
also what is beet pulp? 
and where would I be able to get that from?


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## missy567 (Jan 27, 2010)

What Is Beet Pulp? | www.triplecrownfeed.com This will tell you a whole bunch about it. Im not sure where exactly you could find it.. I hope that web page helps a bit.


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