# Its not fair!!



## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

that is very annoying. I dont know about where your at but in america its getting beter.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

I definitly think its un fair, but if you guys do your best and work hard then one day you will be noticed. It just means you will have to work way harder to be better and stand out from the rest.


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## corporate pride (Feb 23, 2010)

this is why i don't hack!
if you don't own a fat over feed round butted pony wth stick legs that it jammed up in a double bridle then you won't get a ribbon. i took my eventer in show hunter class, had to do an inhand gallop to a stop and a walk in on the long rein, my horse inhanded perfect and stopped walked in on the buckle relaxed, cantered correct lead, he's a solid thoroughbred. this ugly morgan with a bad additude that didn't inhand gallop, didn't canter on the correct lead and the "long rein" was held "long" with the rider putting the rein to her knees on a tight rein, she won! the horse wansn't relaxed and wouldn't stand in line and was pinning it's ears back at everything! if THAT horse was to event, this rider wouldn't get far.
unfortunatly, hacking isn't like dressage, your judge on looks and personal opinion of the judge. the judges might not like pintos or paints or arabs or standardbreds. if you want real results, do dressage, you'll get marked on your work not on your horses looks.

are you from the South West, WA?? you look like your around the perth suburbs.
Come over to "the dark side"!!!!!!!!! there's lots of pintos here!!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, sorry for dumb question, but what "hacking classes" are? We have dressage, jumping, hunters, eq shows around here, but I don't remember seeing any "hacking" shows (although I didn't look specifically).


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> Folks, sorry for **** question, but what "hacking classes" are? We have dressage, jumping, hunters, eq shows around here, but I don't remember seeing any "hacking" shows (although I didn't look specifically).



There is road hack and pleasure hack for instance.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Spyder said:


> There is road hack and pleasure hack for instance.


Spyder, I looked it up in google, but still confused. What's the difference between the hacking and low level dressage then?


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

Read up exactly what the judge is looking for in these types of classes, go to a couple shows and watch. Make a note based upon the criteria of whatever governing body you have, says what kind of horses should place and make your own judgement. Stick around, listen to how the judge places the horses. If your list and the judges list don't match up, approach the judge after the show, tell them you weren't riding but interested in learning why they placed the horses the way they did.

Most judges are really nice, and super knowledgeable and are more then happy to impart their know-how on others. 

You'll find that 99% of the judges actually know what they are looking for, they are color blind so to speak when it comes to judging, meaning that they see color as not part of the reason why they chose a horse (as in its all about quality of gait, suitability, obediance, cleanliness, before its ever about.. whose pony has the best color).

You'll always find judges you don't agree with and don't show under them, then you'll have nothing to complain about.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> Spyder, I looked it up in google, but still confused. What's the difference between the hacking and low level dressage then?


I never showed in the class myself but a show I went to many times had a hack division.

Mainly it is somewhat like a pleasure class except the road hack may be required to put out a better level of difference in type of gait such as lengthened. The horse will be more in the bridle compared to the pleasure version.

In England the judges will actually select some horse and ride them themselves.

Hack divisions are more popular in the UK and tend to look more dressagish compared to the NA version looking a bit more hunterish.

Now the above is not from any rule book, just an observation from me.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Spyder said:


> I never showed in the class myself but a show I went to many times had a hack division.
> 
> Mainly it is somewhat like a pleasure class except the road hack may be required to put out a better level of difference in type of gait such as lengthened. The horse will be more in the bridle compared to the pleasure version.
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining! 

It does sound interesting (especially the fact judge can get on to ride). I may look if we have anything like that around to just come out and watch.


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## darrenvale (Aug 10, 2010)

At the shows over here, in show hunter pony classes for example, coloureds are aloud but there don't always do so well even is they are a good stamp. I'm not sure why, but many judges just don't reacon it as much as a full colour x


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## Lobelia Overhill (Nov 3, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Spyder, I looked it up in google, but still confused. What's the difference between the hacking and low level dressage then?


Ridden Hack is a showing class, the horses are supposed to be quiet, well mannered and suitable for a lady to ride (usually anywhere but out hunting). The horses are ridden, then usually unsaddled and trotted up in-hand, and in some cases the judge will ride several of the horses after that. The judge will usually line up about 8 or 10 horses and each one does a little 'show' to demonstrate how well mannered the horse is.

Although I am remembering that from a show over 20 years ago!!


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

well in Australia NSW, the judges dont get on to ride your horse. Mind you, i have won a few classes on tess but when it comes to some classes, the judge just turns her head on poor Tess. She really is a nice horse, perfect gaits, and good looks. Its a shame she doesnt get noticed all the time....i dont expect to win all the time....just telling you


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## Frankiee (Jun 28, 2010)

It is extremly unfair... I dont get what the hole piont. who cares what color your horse is whats the big deal???


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Fair?? Is life suddenly supposed to be fair? Sorry you're having that problem. While most hunters in my area are garden variety bay, the paints seem to do as well.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Lobelia Overhill said:


> Ridden Hack is a showing class, the horses are supposed to be quiet, well mannered and suitable for a lady to ride (usually anywhere but out hunting). The horses are ridden, then usually unsaddled and trotted up in-hand, and in some cases the judge will ride several of the horses after that. The judge will usually line up about 8 or 10 horses and each one does a little 'show' to demonstrate how well mannered the horse is.


Very cool! I don't think I've seen it around here (granted I went only to smaller shows).


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Road hack is supposed to be more ground covering strides. Park hack (or a name close to that) is supposed to be more collected. Pleasure is inbetween the two. _

_Is that correct someoneÉ Sorry my question mark isnt working!_


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## corporate pride (Feb 23, 2010)

*warning! the following is one bias opinion*

in australia hacking is what you'd think as a modelling contest. the horses are made up like in hand but it's only ridden. the horses go out in a circle in the "class" (eg. 14 -15 hh horse) then you will be asked to trot canter and change reins. the judge will either judge on that or will pick a few for a work out class. the work out class is like a mini dressage test (pretty sure made up somewhat on the spot) i.e trot out on the right rein, do a 20 m circle, canter a half 20m cirle, change reins do the same on the other side.....sometimes in show hunter they will ask for inhand gallop. then each person does this then everyone is judged.
there is no rule book, you can go out in anything you like. double bridles are even used for kids under 10 years old. you can go in any bit, any english saddle, you can had rings on, wear spurs and carry a whip. the ponies and horses are "polished" i.e very shiney and with make up and dye, usually plaited and with nice browbands.
there are judges that don't like certain types or colours of horse. they are suppose to be calm and nice but more likely then not they are highly strung. for example, i was at an ag show and was showjumping, the ring next to jumping was hacking. the hacks where going off, rearing when ribbons were near them, won't stand still and carrying on. in comparison the showjumpers were falling asleep waiting for their round.
the most common horse for hacking in usually a riding pony breed.


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## ThatNinjaHorse (Jul 26, 2009)

ETA: corporate, we posted at the same time!

Over here hack classes would have to be one of the most popular events. Theres BIG competition. I think it originated in the UK, but now in Aus and NZ its kinda different.

You start on the 'ring' - open space marked with cones, and will walk, trot and canter at the judges discretion on a circle with the other horses in the class. Horses are to be presented well, well manered, good conformation/gaits and collected/on the bit. The judge will then pick his/her favourite 3 or 4, call them into the centre, everyone else will leave. A 'workout' is then ridden, which the judge makes up on the spot. The horse that is called in first will work out first, then the second, etc etc.

The workout will depend on the class level. (maiden, progressive, educated etc) and can involve just a simple walk, trot, canter, simple change, halt or more complicated things like a flying change, hand gallop, extended trot (or a few lenthened strides in the lower classes) etc etc.
Places are then given.

The problem with hacking is there is are no set guidelines to judge by. Its all up to the judges discretion and opinion. Because of this there can be a fair bit of descrimination sadly. Ive never encountered the colour bias thing (my hackie is black) but i have heard a judge actually SAY they didnt like/wouldnt place a grey horse. (though, this was just a regular show, nothing big. Once you start going to higher shows there isnt as much of this... would probs still happen sometimes though)

Hacking is really all about the glamour. Ive been out in progressive hack, my horse hadnt settled well and was so tense and wasnt working as well as he could have, looked great though! and was still placed 3rd. Then, went out into a dressage test, and got marked down so much simply because he wasnt relaxed. This was completly ignored in the hacking.

Im getting off track here :lol:

To the OP, keep at it! Keep improving, go to some dressage days (REALLY useful) Not all judges are so bias. And if you go out, ride an awesome workout, and are still market down and are placed below a less deserving horse, who cares, everyone else watching/riding has just seen what has happened and will notice. 

(also, dont be afraid to ask the judge why you were placed below another horse. You can get some good feedback and the judge has to give you a reason)


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## corporate pride (Feb 23, 2010)

ThatNinjaHorse said:


> ETA: corporate, we posted at the same time!
> 
> Over here hack classes would have to be one of the most popular events. Theres BIG competition. I think it originated in the UK, but now in Aus and NZ its kinda different.
> 
> ...


nope, i was quicker  hahahaha
that was less bias post too by the way


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## ThatNinjaHorse (Jul 26, 2009)

corporate pride said:


> nope, i was quicker  hahahaha
> that was less bias post too by the way


 ah yeah i must have still been writing!
mm i have soft spot for hacking, it has its downsides but i still love it anyways :lol:


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## corporate pride (Feb 23, 2010)

ThatNinjaHorse said:


> ah yeah i must have still been writing!
> mm i have soft spot for hacking, it has its downsides but i still love it anyways :lol:


i had too many bias experiences so i try avoid it. i will occassionally at gymkhanas to do something different but i usually end up going "why did i bother?"


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Void said:


> You'll find that 99% of the judges actually know what they are looking for, they are color blind so to speak when it comes to judging, meaning that they see color as not part of the reason why they chose a horse (as in its all about quality of gait, suitability, obediance, cleanliness, before its ever about.. whose pony has the best color).


Well said!

In other words, it is most likely your lovely pinto did not place for reasons other than color.


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## pickletoes (Sep 4, 2010)

me and my pinto usually win first place here in California, you just have to be REALLY good


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## Bethy (Aug 31, 2010)

Spyder said:


> In England the judges will actually select some horse and ride them themselves.


 
That sounds cool for a person whose horse listens to others....my horse will only listen to three people. 

She acts like a three year old person and tries to trick you and sees how much she can get away with.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

LOL 
well i have a hack class this weekend at a pony club show so i will tell you all how i go


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

well everyone heres the results for this weekends pony club ribbon day for me 
hack class: 3rd
bare saddle: 1st
rider class: 1st
novice 2A dressage: 1st ...63.3 %
6 bar: 4th
keyhole: 1st
sporting fig 8: 1st
barrels: 1st
western pole bend: 1st
pony twist: 1st
OVERALL CHAMPION FOR MY AGE GROUP 
i will post pics when i can be bothered
p.s excellent dressage tess


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

I don't believe in the color biases. Maybe in extremely low levels where people just sign up to judge, but that's it. Like someone else said, if you aren't winning, it's not because your horse isn't bay or chesnut. "The judge doesn't place me because my horse is a Paint/pinto/Appy" has become the number one excuse when someone isn't good enough(for lack of a better phrase) to place. People have seen Moondance Alexander too many times. ETA: Also, most pintos are stock bred. Most of the accused bias come from hunter divisions, where stock horses don't have the correct movement to win in a hunter class. That is why the judge picks that TB over your paint. Not because of color.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

i only saw moondance alexander a few weeks ago 
but i did get 3rd yesterday in my hack class so im proud of that. The winner was a pony that move like a robot. :/...hmmmm...but im proud of my placing


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## kpptt2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

I have a pinto, and I also competed in the Hack Division with him this year. I think that sometimes they are "too noticeable" - being that they stand out; I found the judges always had their eye on my guy, so the slightest mistake was noticed right away. This was just my scenario, and it may go the complete opposite way for others. 

Regardless, I had a blast doing the hack division this year, and mostly it was an opportunity for me as a green rider to get an understanding of the different gaits etc. as well as great training for my guy, as he had never done much on the flat at shows - so we basically used it as a learning experience. We ended up making it to Championships, where he placed 8th in the pleasure hack (out of 40 horses), so I was very happy with him!


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## haleylvsshammy (Jun 29, 2010)

Funny how where you are pinto's don't often get placed... where I am judges seem to love pintos! Well, along with every other color out there. My experience is that judges judge based on how well the horse and rider perform. Grant it, there have been times where I haven't even been looked at, but overall I pretty much agree with all of the judges placings. After shows (I pretty much only show 4-H, so it's pretty low key) I ask the judges for a critique on my performance. They are always nice and willing to help me out, and it's a great way to learn what you need to work on!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

99 times out of 100, the people screaming about breed or color prejudice are the ones who didn't place. 

You didn't place because the other horses and riders were _better_ than you, not because the judge didn't like your horse's color or breed. That's ludicrous in the extreme.

Sour grapes, that's all it is.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

ok then thanx  i do place in events as well


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