# Would you board your horse in a tie stall?



## Kotori (Jun 18, 2012)

The tie stalls are 6x12. Horses out 24/7, rotated through four pastures and restrained to a drylot with stonedust footing if the pastures are waterlogged, with slow feeders. Ideally, the horses would only come in for feeding and rough weather, but every other wall will slide to make a 12x12 box stall for stall rest. These tie stalls are 'back in', meaning the horses face the aisle.

Amenities: 100x200ft outside arena, sand footing, 100' diameter round pen, free hay storage for up to a ton of hay per horse, covered wash rack. Lockable tack lockers, 1 per stall with extra space available (each locker has room for two saddles). Hay in winter is grass hay provided in the drylot slowfeeders at no extra cost. 


Asking on behalf of a friend who is semi-seriously considering trying to start a 'low overhead' barn. He was also contemplating doing a small indoor arena, and wants input into 'minimal' and 'preferred' sizes.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Truthfully, no. A stall big enough to turn around in is bad enough.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I wouldn't, either. A regular size stall seems to be a necessary evil for my horse (he didn't do well on 24/7 turn out), but I wouldn't consider keeping him in something smaller than that, especially where he's tied up the whenever he's inside.


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## BroInBreeches (Apr 14, 2016)

Is it pricier than pasture board? Because for these amenities, I would just go pasture board with a shelter. After all, they only come in for feeding and bad weather, right? So might as well pay less cash and do pasture board and let them hang out in the shelter when it's bad weather.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

No. 6' is large enough for some to turn around, maybe get stuck, casted when they lay down, caught in ropes if tied, have to wear a halter, tempted to go over stall front.... too many things to worry about.

Why would boarders need hay storage room if he's providing hay?


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## 3rdTimestheCharm (Jan 18, 2015)

I wouldn't either for all the reasons stated above. I wouldn't feel comfortable with it at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kotori (Jun 18, 2012)

I told him the responses, and he said that the hay storage would be for if the owner wanted hay to be fed when they were brought in, like alfalfa instead of the grass. The 6' width is so the full stall width would equal the length, but if 5' is better than the box stalls would only be 10x12. As for why not just pasture board, well in our area pasture board is only a thing if there is no arena, drylot, etc. They are literally just a pasture, with shelters being optional. Anyway, without the hay storage, he said that the indoor arena will be 'more feasible'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I agree with the others - I would be extremely uncomfortable with the idea of my horse being in a tie stall. 
Being stalled in a 12X12 is hard enough on my gelding! This last winter we had an ice storm that, effectively, iced Fabio out of his pasture and access to the arena - he ended up being in for 3 whole days and he was a littttle nuts when he finally got out. :lol: I can't imagine that scenario in a tie-stall, no way.

If your friend loves the idea of this particular place and the tie stalls are already in place, could he demolish some of the dividing walls and create a number of 12x12 stalls? 12x12 stalls for use in inclement weather, and the like, would make the barn much more appealing to owners.


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## Kotori (Jun 18, 2012)

He doesn't believe in box stalls because he feels they tempt people into leaving horses in longer while feeling like they're getting more exercise. He has a sheaf of papers an inch thick of studies showing that tie stalls have less stereotypic behaviors associated with them.
I think he is just planning to charge pasture board, honestly. He just wanted to see how strong the bias against tie stalls were, in his words.


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## Ashleysmardigrasgirl (Jun 28, 2012)

Personally, I would not. It's not common enough these days for people to really know what a tie stall is. Very outdated horse-keeping even if he believes there is evidence proving its benefits for the horse. 

... I don't see why he is so set on doing something like that. There is evidence that supports horses do better without shoes yet look at all of the horses shod... 

I really just don't see it taking off. Making any real money on boarding horses is difficult, trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak and get people to jump on the tie stall bandwagon doesn't seem at all likely.

You would be better off boarding dogs. #realtalk.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

No I wouldn't have my horse use the tie stall, but wouldn't have issue with just pasture board, it's what I do now. 

There is likely evidence out there to say that pasture board is better than tie up stalls - so I'm not sure why he's making it and issue. As far as stalling is concerned, most people seem to not at stall them, stall them at night or stall them always. Having a tie stall is not going to change that sort of frequency.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

I had some offer me a set up like that. They would have their horses in a tie stall all night. No thanks, I'll take those two empty box stalls over there.

Ended up not boarding there. If I had only the choice of tie stall or pasture I'd take pasture. Jules lies down a lot at night and Blaze is an ADHD toddler. Neither would be happy in that set up.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Kotori said:


> The tie stalls are 6x12. Horses out 24/7, rotated through four pastures and restrained to a drylot with stonedust footing if the pastures are waterlogged, with slow feeders. Ideally, the horses would only come in for feeding and rough weather, but every other wall will slide to make a 12x12 box stall for stall rest. These tie stalls are 'back in', meaning the horses face the aisle.


Well if horses are out 24/7 and only in for feeding, then I wouldn't have an issue....but then I am used to tie stalls, having grown up with tie stalls being fairly normal. Coming in for rough weather, mmmm not so keen, probably prefer them to be outside with a shelter. 



Kotori said:


> Amenities: 100x200ft outside arena, sand footing, 100' diameter round pen, free hay storage for up to a ton of hay per horse, covered wash rack. Lockable tack lockers, 1 per stall with extra space available (each locker has room for two saddles). Hay in winter is grass hay provided in the drylot slowfeeders at no extra cost.


Like the sound of all of that




Kotori said:


> Asking on behalf of a friend who is semi-seriously considering trying to start a 'low overhead' barn. He was also contemplating doing a small indoor arena, and wants input into 'minimal' and 'preferred' sizes.


Mmmmm the ever eternal how small can you build an indoor...for me 20m x 60m the size of a full size dressage arena.....but I would make do with 20m x 40m. A lot depends on how many people will be using and what for.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

We used to go to a trail ride that used tie stalls and I can't tell you the number of times horses were injured in them over the years and it's about equal with the number of times a stall had to be ripped apart to free a horse that had tried to lay down. It only took me one year and having my horse chewed up by the horse in the next stall for me to rig myself with high-line supplies.

That being said, like Golden Horse I wouldn't be so worried about it if the tie stalls were only used during meal time.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

I would like to hear his arguments and research for tie stalls before jumping on the "NO" bandwagon. However, I have no experience with tie stalls and only know of them as being used in historic barns.

That said, I can't see leaving a horse in a tie stall for more than a couple hours at most. Then again, many many people leave their horses tied for entire mornings or afternoons or all day. I'm not sure that would work for an OTTB or arab. A cowboy's QH? Probably.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think the main argument against the tie stalls, for me at least, is that we no longer use our horses for work. They spend a lot of time in stalls or at pasture and don't get worked until they are just glad to be still. Most people wouldn't dream of leaving their horse tied in a trailer for an extended period when there were other options available, and to me a tie stall is doing pretty much exactly that. I'd pass.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Nope, I'd never board at a place like this. Even if the horses are out most of the time, it would mean that in the event of really bad weather, lameness or any other time your horse requires a stall, he wouldn't be able to lie down safely. No thanks. I don't know what research he's talking about. Yes, it's better for horses to be out 24/7, but there are times they have to be in and I'm pretty sure there isn't any research out there that supports the idea that a confined, tied up horse is healthier than a horse that can turn around and like down safely and comfortably.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Kotori said:


> He doesn't believe in box stalls because he feels they tempt people into leaving horses in longer while feeling like they're getting more exercise. He has a sheaf of papers an inch thick of studies showing that tie stalls have less stereotypic behaviors associated with them.
> I think he is just planning to charge pasture board, honestly. He just wanted to see how strong the bias against tie stalls were, in his words.


If he is bringing the horses in at the same time to feed them, and then turning them out together, it sounds like he is trying to board twice as many horses as he actually has room for. Is he going to stand and watch them eat to make sure no horse has a problem? The way this reads, it looks like individual boarders are responsible for putting their horses in the stalls and taking them out, is that how he wants to do it?

Either way, no way, no how for me.


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## dreamracer (Apr 16, 2014)

*Depends...*

If the tie stall is a "back-in" stall, like you suggested... absolutely NEVER (too high likely hood of simple general safety problems). 
If it was a walk in, back out stall - MAYBE. 
The aisles would have to be at least 15 feet wide for safety and the tie stalls made in the dimensions and following the old style United States Pony Club manual protocols. However, you and your friend should consider reading the current USPC manual (not just the now rare, hard to find, antique or out dated manual) and HIGHLY keep in mind: There's a REASON why USPC does things the way they do. 

For those concerned about casting, I've seen just as many if not more horses get themselves cast in box stalls versus tie stalls; I've seen more weaving and stall kicking problems in horses stalled in box stalls, for a show/clinic,etc. which do so due to being used to being out in the pasture and otherwise not stalled at all. Wood chewing problems for stalled equines who are simply bored. 

Tie stalls were used primarily for driving/work horses. A farmer would be able to easily harness up his team (a pair) in the tie stall, back them out safely and then be able to hitch them to a plow or cart; or for keeping a horse 'in the city' back in the day AND even the last livery stable in New York City (which closed a few years ago), who was famous for using central park, even switched themselves over to box stalls. 

The only places I can think off the top of my head & know who use tie stalls today are Queen Elizabeth's Royal Stables (and even there they have several box stalls), The Royal Lippizaner Stallion Show (for traveling and at their personal stable in Florida - they also even have two to four box stalls while the rest are tie stalls... great architecture and SAFE tie stalls, excellent safety record of very few horses ever getting cast or receiving injuries due to the way they were stalled & horses CAN lay down - which I'd know these "inside" tips because I am one of the few people to ever receive a personal tour of their facilities; and The famous Lipizzaner stables in Vienna, Austria. 

You can let your friend know i did my research because I'm considering making some tie stalls for use in having extra areas to tack up/untack for riding and feeding individual grain to our non-box stalled horses. 
However, I would not consider keeping them in there for 24 hours plus... they don't even do that at any of the facilities I mentioned above - in which case when the horses are not being prepared for use/show, are in intense training or are on the road they have 24 hour pasture available; for inclement weather I keep mine outside in shelter available 24/7 or box stall them. If for any reason i don't have enough box stalls or want them to be able to exercise/ stretch their legs/ or will be keeping them inside for several days due to freezing rain on top of icy conditions/snow (the worst below zero days in the entire year), etc. they use our indoor riding arena and we only separate for cleaning the indoor up, graining, or ones who don't/won't get along with others. Hay we place several tarps down and feed them on those in several spots. 

The absolute smallest sized indoors I'd ever consider so one can at least canter safely, keep several horses inside or practice small jumps in would be 40'X50' or 60'X60'. My personal indoor is MUCH bigger than that however. 

One friend's facility which I know of which is cute and nice features 4 12X12 box stalls and a 60 foot by 60 foot indoor, a 12X24 open concept tack room, a 12 X 24 muck/bedding storage room, a spot for several weeks worth of hay and an indoor bumper pull trailer storage area. 
Another friend's facility featured five 12X12 stalls, a 12X12 open concept tack room, a 12 X 12 indoor wash stall, a 6'X12' bedding /muck cart storage room, A 12 X 12 "gallery"/greeting area, a 6'X12' hay chute/feeding cart/grain storage area, all hay stored above the earlier mentioned, a hay elevator and indoor gooseneck (3 horse plus living quarters) trailer garage on the other side and a 75'X75' Indoor. Just to help give you guys a few ideas. 
Hope all goes well - not trying to play devils advocate ...keep me informed, I really am willing to help!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I wonder if people read that the horses were only in minimally?

I have smaller horses and while 12x6 is small it's not tiny and as a temporary "feed and turnout" that would be fine (though I wouldn't want them tied). I like the idea of them sliding into larger stalls but sounds like a PITA.

So I would consider smaller stalls for a horse out 24/7 and only coming in to eat. I would not consider tie stalls. Depending on the horse I would not consider a 12x6 stall for anything more then very short term (not "normal" inside time). (My mare pre purchase was in a similar sized stall and while I didn't love it, it worked, but would not have for a larger horse- she is 14.3)

It's an interesting theory about the box stalls, but not one that will take off with any horse people I know! You don't build a barn around how to control your boarders..

As far as someone trying to sell this as a "to be built boarding barn" I would recommend against.


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