# How do YOU handle a really aggressive horse?Help!!



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm afraid he is going to hurt you, too. I am afraid the barn owner is being foolish to allow such an aggresive horse to be handled by you, and even be in the company of other people on his /her property. I am afraid this hrose will end up as dogfood if he does not get some attention from a knowledgeable trainer. And , sorry, but I don't think you sound like you are up to this. I know I would not be up to that. 
So, I have nor specific advice except to ask the BO to allow you to NOT handle him.

ONe small idea. : can you BACK him into his stall?


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I know how I would handle that but I'm a little afraid to tell you cause I'm a little concerned you would hurt yourself if it wasn't done right. I'm not sure you should be handling that horse he is need of a good trainer to teach him respect to humans. If he charges you tries to bite you or kick you raise your hand upward and see if that moves him away from you kind of like how a horse would raises his head upward to move another horse away from it. He is very dangerous.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Some things are for an internet forum.. and this situation is not. 

Race horses are often a bit like this. They really can be "hot" and they really are not handled in a way that has them being friendly in a lot of cases. It is not always abuse.. just not consistant handling. 

I think you need someone to work with this horse that knows what they are doing. You are doing your best but you, or someone else, is going to get hurt working around this horse. 

Please talk to the barn owner and let them know how you feel.. and do stay safe. Horses can kill people.. and not mean it. This fellow seems to mean it.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Baseball bat comes to mind,,,,
seriously though it sounds like your BO is being pretty irresponsible to let you handle this horse. Id simply ignore him and let the BO deal with it. I wouldnt put up with this from my horse, but sure as grass is green no way would I put up with this from someone elses horse, their horse their problem.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

To be honest...I get a little annoyed when people say a horses behaviour is because (assuming not knowing) he was a racehorse, he was abused etc etc ect....just because he was a racehorse does not mean his behaviour is due to having been a racehorse.....I've seen kids ponies behave this bad before...

Simple: he does this because he CAN......

I spent a good part of my working life with racehorses.....1 out of 100 would be this bad....and they wouldn't be allowed to get away with it.....they're not silly, they know who's boss and who's not.......

I'd step aside and let someone who is competent in handling a horse like this take over....and I'd tell the BO that the horse is too dangerous for your skill level and you fear for your safety......


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

Baseball bat comes to mind,,,,
Seriously though it sounds like your BO is being pretty irresponsible to let you handle this horse. Id simply ignore him and let the BO deal with it. I wouldnt put up with this from my horse, but sure as grass is green no way would I put up with this from someone elses horse, their horse their problem. 

ixzz29tCzIHgwDude the basball bat coment was not even funny.......


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

Sounds like this horse has no respect for humans to me! And those types can be dangerous to people.
I had a horse boarded here that did everything except the kicking out, he would bite at you, body slam you, try to run you over while leading......if his owner came out to ride him he spent at least 30-45 mins. trying to catch him, then he would buck him off as soon as he got on him!
He needs some ground work done with him, teach him to stay out of your space, move his feet, block him with your elbow if he tries to bite......once he learns to respect humans usually all those other things go away.


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

To be honest...I get a little annoyed when people say a horses behaviour is because (assuming not knowing) he was a racehorse, he was abused etc etc ect....just because he was a racehorse does not mean his behaviour is due to having been a racehorse.....I've seen kids ponies behave this bad before...

Simple: he does this because he CAN......

I spent a good part of my working life with racehorses.....1 out of 100 would be this bad....and they wouldn't be allowed to get away with it.....they're not silly, they know who's boss and who's not.......

I'd step aside and let someone who is competent in handling a horse like this take over....and I'd tell the BO that the horse is too dangerous for your skill level and you fear for your safety......

I have also work with a alot of OTTB.And i have see how they can be treated and a horse dose not get this bad because he was not handled.He has no respect for any one not even his onwer he runs over people and is just rude.He has been work with by is onwer who trains horses and he still is nuts.But yes he can but my being a 120 pound trying to stop a 1000 pound horse dose not go over too well.His onwer is not much bigger than me either.He even has a chain over his nose and dose not care.He get with in 5 feet of his stall and he runs in it.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Ive seen them this bad......all of his behaviours are just symptoms of a lack of respect......if a chain over his nose doesn't work, put a colt bit on him. If he rushes the stall with no regard for you - yank him on that colt bit and back him up and make him walk with you in a respectful way, as soon as he starts rushing, yank him back again....and repeat until he gets the message.....it's the same with every horse.....

I generally don't recommend yanking on a horses mouth with a colt bit, but in this case it sounds necessary.....also, a loose lead rope is more effective than a tight one......

To be quite frank, don't blame his behaviour on being an ex-racehorse.......how on earth do you think those little 100lb track riders and jockeys would get on if all racehorses behaved this way? It's not about strength or size, it's about outsmarting a horse and being consistent and firm.......

Also, a horse doesnt get pushy, aggressive and dominant by being mistreated....he gets that way by being handled in such a way that empowers him to be in control.......


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

averylilly - as a general tip to help you in posting on the forum, if/when you want to quote someone's post to respond directly to what they have said, simply click the "quote" button at the bottom of that post -- this will copy/paste the post into a new box using quote format which will put their post in a separate bubble and your text below it -- making it easier for those reading your post to see the difference between what you are quoting and what you are writing


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> averylilly said:
> 
> 
> > To be honest...I get a little annoyed when people say a horses behaviour is because (assuming not knowing) he was a racehorse, he was abused etc etc ect....just because he was a racehorse does not mean his behaviour is due to having been a racehorse.....I've seen kids ponies behave this bad before...
> ...


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> averylilly - as a general tip to help you in posting on the forum, if/when you want to quote someone's post to respond directly to what they have said, simply click the "quote" button at the bottom of that post -- this will copy/paste the post into a new box using quote format which will put their post in a separate bubble and your text below it -- making it easier for those reading your post to see the difference between what you are quoting and what you are writing :smile:


 LOL i know for some reson when i hit Quote it woul not guote it lol but thanks!


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> I'm afraid he is going to hurt you, too. I am afraid the barn owner is being foolish to allow such an aggresive horse to be handled by you, and even be in the company of other people on his /her property. I am afraid this hrose will end up as dogfood if he does not get some attention from a knowledgeable trainer. And , sorry, but I don't think you sound like you are up to this. I know I would not be up to that.
> So, I have nor specific advice except to ask the BO to allow you to NOT handle him.
> 
> ONe small idea. : can you BACK him into his stall?


 Nope he get about 5/10 feet away from his stall and he runs in.:/


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Can you keep the door closed until you get there. Does he have food in his stall everytime he goes in ? 
Give him a swat if he goes to bite and , if he goes to kick, give him a swat or threatend to kick him. Teach him those behaviors are not allowed. You would also need to ask the horses owner if your are allowed to repremand him. If not refuse to handle him altogether. I would carry a whip for your safety.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

he needs to be reminded that he is NOT the head of the herd. You are. The BO is. Whoever. He is obviously under the impression that he is the boss, and he calls the shots. YOU need to be boss and YOU need to call the shots. Do whatever it takes to get the message across. BUT I think a professional should be working witrh him on this, not you. 

I am the barn manager at a dressage barn (where I live also) and we don't usually see horses like this. BUT if one came in I would be FIRST in line ot ask my BO (who is also a proffessional trainer) what to do and to have her show me. SHe would be more then willing to give me a "lesson" on how to handle a horse like this. Maybe you should ask for the same courtesy. Its your LIFE, and your HEALTH. DO whats safest for yourself.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Not sure there are tips that will help with this horse. It needs training. If I were working with him, I would use clicker training. Start with horse in stall with stall guard. Charge up the clicker, then reward for polite behavior, moving toward stillness and putting on the halter. Just do 10 minutes per session, before and after u handle him. I would not use clicker and treats outside the stall till he is very polite and controlled. It can't hurt. Do u have any experience with CT?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

tiffanyodonnell said:


> Not sure there are tips that will help with this horse. It needs training. If I were working with him, I would use clicker training. Start with horse in stall with stall guard. Charge up the clicker, then reward for polite behavior, moving toward stillness and putting on the halter. Just do 10 minutes per session, before and after u handle him. I would not use clicker and treats outside the stall till he is very polite and controlled. It can't hurt. Do u have any experience with CT?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, I TOTALLY think this is a ludicrous and dangerous idea in this case. SO-yeah-it totally CAN hurt. THe OP! OP needs someone more experienced to either show her how or to handle this horse herself. To put a horse like this in a stall with a stall guard and click at it-really? I have one who was just raised wrong. He knows respect, but that does not mean I can EVER let my guard down. Some horses will just take advantage of every inch they are given. Mine is nowhere near this, but, if let go, he would be. I will guarantee you I will never hand feed mine. In or out of the stall. He gets treats in his feed bin, period. When he acts like a teenage boy and gives me the finger-I know he is daring me. He gets his A$$ run in the round pen until he stops and faces me when asked. 

OP-please-for starters, talk to the BO and have someone help you deal with this horse. I would suggest that there is no real routine. Never have his food in hos stall when he goes in, and take your time giving it to him. He just needs to learn that he does not run the show, and that is just for starters. With this cooler weather, and mine geting worked less-he does sometimes have to be backed from the paddock into his stall. He is given a chance to behave-if he acts up-he backs. When they are backing (with a ROPE halter) they have to think about backing, and cannot be thinking about what next to do to you. I know mine was a totally spoiled brat as a youngster (yet another reason inexperienced folks should never raise a foal) and he will ALWAYS try to pull a fast one. While he has not kicked or bit me, he would if allowed any leeway. Someone with good training knowledge needs to teach this horse some respect, and then, the folks who handle him need to know how to get it from him themselves. Be really careful "swatting" also-these horses may tend to actually move TOWARD that pressure......just be on guard at all times, and if you need to "seat"-I suggest you make it really count. I had a trainer friend who actually broke a carrot sick over the head of one recently who was known to be aggressive and came at him teeth barred, ears pinned. Definitely NOT a swat. (that particular horse ended up being put down after every possible attempt was made to correct the problem) ALso keep in mind that once you are scared-they know it. So, if you are scared, admit it and let someone else deal with the horse.

Please stay safe tho, and get help.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

i would let him get to that ten foot mark or whatever it is he decides to run in i would take one good swift pull and a nice whomp to his hindquarters and disengage him. i would do this until he decided to walk in. i don't care if is half in his stall. he wants to run in lets disengage go back out and try it again. keep him distant enough you are out of strike zone and kick zone. personally if he wasn't mine i wouldn't deal with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boldstart (Oct 11, 2009)

It annoys me someone blames an OTTB behaviour because they were simply a racehorse in the past. Dont just assume, ANY horse can be disrespectful and dangerous.

I think in this situation is out fo your hands. This horse seems like it needs some manners taught and the only way I can see that being done is having a person with years of hrose experience handling this horse. Or else send it back to a break or similar. This beahviour may not disappear at all but it should be more easy to handle.

In the short term but a lead bit on the horse to make it easier to handle or get someone else to handle it for you. In the end your safety is paramount.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I have worked with racehorses for many years. They are no different from any other horses and I have come across more bad mannered - and that is all this is, riding horses than racehorses.

The person in charge of the barn needs to teach this horse manners and use firm corrections. 

I would advise you to stay clear of him and let morse experienced people handle him.


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## dixieray53 (Jul 25, 2012)

If I were the BO I would tell the owner they could not board at my barn any longer unless they get it some professional help with a trainer. My question also is can the owner handle the horse? I think the barn owner is not being responsible by letting a horse board there and having you handle a horse that has no respect and is dangerous, is he that desparate for boarders? I feel this is not a question of how you need to handle the horse but how you need to handle the situation. 

Giving advice in a situation like this can get someone or the horse hurt and I dont think you should take any corrective measures with equipment without consulting the owner as if done improper and hurts horse could be a problem in a legal way.

IMO I feel this needs to be addressed with the barn owner and if he wants to take a risk with this horse only him and the horses owner should be allowed near the horse. I would not want someone training or disciplining my horse without my permission, that said I wouldn't let my horse get to the point of being dangerous.

Tracy


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

My advice is the same as others have already stated. Refuse to handle him. To me it is absolutely ludicrous that a BO would put others in the position to get hurt or worse by a horse that needs some serious manners. The BO is taking a huge, HUGE liability risk. It is irresponsible and dangerous. The owner of the horse needs to get it dealt with by someone qualified to deal with it. I've got experience with aggressive horses and I'm sorry but a forum is not the appropriate place to give advice on dealing with that. It would be irresponsible to do so and have someone get hurt that shouldn't have been dealing with it in the first place. No way would I be handling him unless I was being paid to fix him and paid handsomely at that. Why take the risk? Is it worth not being able to work your own horse, is it worth losing fingers (or whatever he grabs ahold of), breaking a bone, getting killed. Nope, no horse worth that. 



Muppetgirl said:


> Simple: he does this because he CAN......


Yes! Making excuses for him does nothing for anyone, trying to guess at what may or may not have happened in his background doesn't help anyone. What is going on is here and now and not yesterday or last year or.... The BO & owner need to step up to the plate and take care of the situation and not compromise others safety. 

To be honest, if I were a boarder in a barn with one like that and the BO didn't step up and force owner to get it dealt with or kick him out, I'd be gone. Yesterday.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

There are some horses out there that will not become respectful with rough handling. I have seen more than my share of them. These are horses that up the ante when you up the ante.. match you step for step. These are horses that will become MORE dangerous with a yank on a chain over the nose.. or a colt bit.. or bat.. whatever aversive you use. I have seen it more in some Thoroughbreds and Standarbreds than I have in others.. tho warmbloods can sometimes realize their size and weight advantage over puny humans. 

I believe this particular horse and this handler and an internet forum cannot begin to handle this situation or assess this particular horse. IF he is the up the Ante sort, there will be a wreck and someone will be hurt or killed. 

Quite honestly, the ONLY reason some of this junk is tolerated in a Racehorse is because the beast can do a good job of running fast and turning left (or right if in Europe). He wins money.... and money makes the world go round. I can think of a couple off the top of my head that were miserable to handle.. but ran fast and turned left very well (Ever hear of John Henry?).

Again.. I think the best thing to do is keep your distance and let a pro deal with this horse (or the owner.. pro or not). He may be a GREAT ride.. but if he kills or hurts someone on the ground he is dogfood. If he cannot be fixed (and, quite honestly, some cannot) then he will STILL be dog food. 

The trick here is that the humans around him not end up in the ICU at the local hospital because of him. Get a pro.. stay away from this horse and the internet for a solution here!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

BTW IF this is a horse that will move into pressure (like Franknbeans said) or up the ante like I said, if you swat him for turning and kicking, he will either back toward you and kick again (MUCH harder) OR he will turn around, standing on his hind legs and strike at you. 

This is not a situation for clickers, rainbows and cookies.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Elana said:


> BTW IF this is a horse that will move into pressure (like Franknbeans said) or up the ante like I said, if you swat him for turning and kicking, he will either back toward you and kick again (MUCH harder) OR he will turn around, standing on his hind legs and strike at you.
> 
> This is not a situation for clickers, rainbows and cookies.


:shock:What ??? No unicorn farts or butterflies??:wink:

PS-I use the clicker to call my dogs only. Saves a lot of yelling around the farm.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

The short answer is I don't. I agree with everyone who has said tell the BO that you value your skin too much to continue risking it on a horse that clearly has aggression issues. 

Also, without being present to see the details of this horses reactions, no one on this forum can really tell you anything that would help to change his attitude. When a horse has such strong reactions, there is level of feel and timing involved to correctly get him to understand what is going on and what is going to happen that many people just don't have.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Think of his life at the track. Groundwork is practically non-existant. When led a chain is often used, sometimes thro the mouth to act light a bit for more control. The horses develope a strong bond with the stall, turnout doesn't happen because of the possiblility of injury. Everything happens in his stall, grooming, saddling, you name it. He goes to the track daily for exercise, the wash rack and back to his stall. Same routine when he races. That's all he knows and everyone keeps trying to disrupt it. You may need to put a chain under his jaw. If put over the nose it seems to encourage rearing. If you continue to work with this horse you need to work on one thing at a time. It sounds like his stress levels are very high and he's lashing out however he can to protect himself. He's not your horse and it's your choice but it would help him if someone just spent time with him, asking nothing of him but just being there. A good time to do lots of reading or clean a few saddles. No need to be in his stall, just outside still works. If you could do this every day for a week you should see that he begins to look forward to your presence. People don't spend enough time just hanging out with their horses.


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## dixieray53 (Jul 25, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> Think of his life at the track. Groundwork is practically non-existant. When led a chain is often used, sometimes thro the mouth to act light a bit for more control. The horses develope a strong bond with the stall, turnout doesn't happen because of the possiblility of injury. Everything happens in his stall, grooming, saddling, you name it. He goes to the track daily for exercise, the wash rack and back to his stall. Same routine when he races. That's all he knows and everyone keeps trying to disrupt it. You may need to put a chain under his jaw. If put over the nose it seems to encourage rearing. If you continue to work with this horse you need to work on one thing at a time. It sounds like his stress levels are very high and he's lashing out however he can to protect himself. He's not your horse and it's your choice but it would help him if someone just spent time with him, asking nothing of him but just being there. A good time to do lots of reading or clean a few saddles. No need to be in his stall, just outside still works. If you could do this every day for a week you should see that he begins to look forward to your presence. People don't spend enough time just hanging out with their horses.


I agree with pretty much with everything you said, but this is not the OP's horse and they are the barn owner, not a trainer, but just helps around the barn. It is great the OP wants to help this horse but I feel the decisions on what is the best course of action is between the barn owner and the horses owner as they are the only parties that can take on this liabilty.

If you boarded your horse somewhere and somewhat started using a chain halter etc on your horse without your knowledge...what would you do? Does the owner expect the barnowner and their help to train their horse? Does the owner realize that this horse has a problem putting it in its stall?


Tracy


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> Think of his life at the track. Groundwork is practically non-existant. When led a chain is often used, sometimes thro the mouth to act light a bit for more control. The horses develope a strong bond with the stall, turnout doesn't happen because of the possiblility of injury. Everything happens in his stall, grooming, saddling, you name it. He goes to the track daily for exercise, the wash rack and back to his stall. Same routine when he races. That's all he knows and everyone keeps trying to disrupt it. You may need to put a chain under his jaw. If put over the nose it seems to encourage rearing. If you continue to work with this horse you need to work on one thing at a time. It sounds like his stress levels are very high and he's lashing out however he can to protect himself. He's not your horse and it's your choice but it would help him if someone just spent time with him, asking nothing of him but just being there. A good time to do lots of reading or clean a few saddles. No need to be in his stall, just outside still works. If you could do this every day for a week you should see that he begins to look forward to your presence. People don't spend enough time just hanging out with their horses.


 I really like your answer! You did not blame the onwer or the horse for the way blade acts and you did not say to jerk him around or hit him like alot of people said.I am gonna try just chilling around him.And you did not say you need to refuse to handle him.But His onwer,the barn manger me and the girl that works him are the only one that handle him.The onwer is also the barn onwer and she cant sell him or send him to traing becuase he get more aggressive around people he dose not know. And as bad as he is with people he know he would hurt or really try to kill a trainer or new onwer.Thank you so much for the help!


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> Think of his life at the track. Groundwork is practically non-existant. When led a chain is often used, sometimes thro the mouth to act light a bit for more control. The horses develope a strong bond with the stall, turnout doesn't happen because of the possiblility of injury. Everything happens in his stall, grooming, saddling, you name it. He goes to the track daily for exercise, the wash rack and back to his stall. Same routine when he races. That's all he knows and everyone keeps trying to disrupt it. You may need to put a chain under his jaw. If put over the nose it seems to encourage rearing. If you continue to work with this horse you need to work on one thing at a time. It sounds like his stress levels are very high and he's lashing out however he can to protect himself. He's not your horse and it's your choice but it would help him if someone just spent time with him, asking nothing of him but just being there. A good time to do lots of reading or clean a few saddles. No need to be in his stall, just outside still works. If you could do this every day for a week you should see that he begins to look forward to your presence. People don't spend enough time just hanging out with their horses.


I really like your answer! You did not blame the onwer or the horse for the way blade acts and you did not say to jerk him around or hit him like alot of people said.I am gonna try just chilling around him.And you did not say you need to refuse to handle him.But His onwer,the barn manger me and the girl that works him are the only one that handle him.The onwer is also the barn onwer and she cant sell him or send him to traing becuase he get more aggressive around people he dose not know. And as bad as he is with people he know he would hurt or really try to kill a trainer or new onwer.Thank you so much for the help!


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> If I were the BO I would tell the owner they could not board at my barn any longer unless they get it some professional help with a trainer. My question also is can the owner handle the horse? I think the barn owner is not being responsible by letting a horse board there and having you handle a horse that has no respect and is dangerous, is he that desparate for boarders? I feel this is not a question of how you need to handle the horse but how you need to handle the situation.
> 
> Giving advice in a situation like this can get someone or the horse hurt and I dont think you should take any corrective measures with equipment without consulting the owner as if done improper and hurts horse could be a problem in a legal way.
> 
> ...


 The onwer of the barn is the onwer of the horse and can not handle him any better than any one else. She said i am more than welcome to treat him like i would my onw horse.And no i can not move my horse becuse i pay for my horse.All of it.And i am 15 so yeah its kinda hard to find a place to board under 400$ a month were i live so i just kinda have to suck it up.


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## dixieray53 (Jul 25, 2012)

averylilly said:


> The onwer of the barn is the onwer of the horse and can not handle him any better than any one else. She said i am more than welcome to treat him like i would my onw horse.And no i can not move my horse becuse i pay for my horse.All of it.And i am 15 so yeah its kinda hard to find a place to board under 400$ a month were i live so i just kinda have to suck it up.


Im sorry but if you are only 15 the barn owner should not be letting you handle an aggressive horse, how do your parents feel about this?


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

What this horse needs is .22 flu. There are thousands of good horses out there, I can't think of a single reason to keep this one around.

Since this isn't your horse, OP, tell the barn owner you refuse to handle him anymore. Be respectful but firm. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

averylilly said:


> The onwer of the barn is the onwer of the horse and can not handle him any better than any one else. She said i am more than welcome to treat him like i would my onw horse.And no i can not move my horse becuse i pay for my horse.All of it.And i am 15 so yeah its kinda hard to find a place to board under 400$ a month were i live so i just kinda have to suck it up.


And I wonder if the company underwriting the farm policy has a clue! :shock:I bet they would cancel that one in a heart beat. This BO is, IMO, irresponsible to even THINK of having anyone else handle this horse. I hope for her sake noone gets hurt.

As far as him being OTTb having anything to do with it-I have to say that the ones I have owned and been around have been very well behaved on the ground, since the grooms don't put up with that crap typically. I would be hesitant to blame the track. I would blame this particular horses personality.
Some, just like some people, are just more "difficult". Go ahead and spend time near him, outside his stall if you like, I would just make sure there are bars between him and you if you turn your back.


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> Im sorry but if you are only 15 the barn owner should not be letting you handle an aggressive horse, how do your parents feel about this?


 Ok i asked how you would handle this horse.Not to tell me to leve my barn or that i sould not handle this horse.I have handled worse and i been rideing and working with horses since a can rember so plz answer my questions or dont comment on my post.


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> Im sorry but if you are only 15 the barn owner should not be letting you handle an aggressive horse, how do your parents feel about this?


Ok i asked how you would handle this horse.Not to tell me to leve my barn or that i sould not handle this horse.I have handled worse and i been rideing and working with horses since a can rember so plz answer my questions or dont comment on my post.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

dixieray53 said:


> Im sorry but if you are only 15 the barn owner should not be letting you handle an aggressive horse, how do your parents feel about this?


Agreed. That makes it even more irresponsible on the BO's part. I really hope he/she has one heck of a liability policy. I know mine would not cover medical bills for a minor that I allowed to handle an aggressive horse as that would be gross negligence without a doubt. 



averylilly said:


> Ok i asked how you would handle this horse.Not to tell me to leve my barn or that i sould not handle this horse.I have handled worse and i been rideing and working with horses since a can rember so plz answer my questions or dont comment on my post.


You have gotten very honest and legitimate answers. The nature of an open forum is just that open. One cannot say who can & cannot answer posts. You may not like some of the things that were said but none of them broke any forum rules. 

At 15, I have strong doubts that you have dealt with worse, if you had you wouldn't be asking strangers on the internet how to fix this. I was your age once too and I grew up on a breeding farm, I have dealt with some pretty awful horses over the years. I was showing on my own at age 3 and handling the stallions & breeding side of things as a teen. I'm not so naive to think that even with a lot of experience at 15 (I'd handled hundreds of horses at that point), I was equipped to deal with what you have being thrown at you. Even if I were, there were responsible adults that would not have allowed it, rightly so. 

If you feel you are up to the challenge, that's your business. I think that most folks have posted what they have out of concern for your safety. Just please think it through and don't jeopardize your own health and safety for someone else's nutter horse. It isn't worth it.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

You're asking how I would handle this horse? Either out back with a bullet or into the trailer to the auction. What I would not be doing is allowing a 15 y.o. kid to handle him and take that kind of liability on to myself.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

averylilly said:


> Ok i asked how you would handle this horse.Not to tell me to leve my barn or that i sould not handle this horse.I have handled worse and i been rideing and working with horses since a can rember so plz answer my questions or dont comment on my post.


You asked how you should handle this horse......if you've handled worse then this horse should be a piece of cake......

You asked how you should handle this horse.....and a majority of us said 'don't' .........I think that is a reasonable answer....


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Avery I have a dominant mare who charges, crowds, rears, bites and kicks. Well I've been working with her everyday short sessions and that has all about disappeared. I had to figure out what worked for her her language was hard for me to pick up at first it was a little different then what I was used to. I could not spank her with the whip it would heighten the situation and make her aggressive to where she would try I rush me bite me rear etc. I've been training horses for about 10 years and even I had a little trouble with this mare at first. So when people tell you that you shouldn't handle it they are only concerned about your safety. Now can that horse be salvaged I think so but I think all he is being taught by his handlers is I'm the boss. This horse needs ground work, round pen time, get him to disengage his hind quarters, change directions keep him guessing, pressure applied properly and released at the right time. I don't hit my mare I found out that if I point a lounge whip at her shoulder or hip she will move that body part away from me and I just maybe have to tap her with the whip occasionally. When she reared I kept her hind quarters moving and we did circles I would make her face toward me hit the ground with the whip and kept going till she stopped and stood still for around 10-15 seconds. But that is something that could be difficult for the new trainer you gotta have quick feet, be familiar with horse body language and know where to stand cause you could get ran over.
I don't know if that will work with your horse u are handling as I'm not there to work him. Honestly I think you would get hurt. This horse needs pressure put on him and then it must be released at the right time or you accomplish nothing. This horse needs a human to say no I'm the dominant one but that at first is going to cause that horse to lash out at you and if you in the wrong spot horrible things could happen to you is all I'm saying. I used to board when I was your age my BO would of never put me in danger like this. I think you BO should look into professional trainers check out their methods everyone trains differently like I tend to favor natural horsemanship methods in my training but its been tailored to fit me and what I like. So if your going to handle this horse be hyper vigilant and as careful as you can. It would be horrible if this horse sent you to the hospital or killed you. This is a very dangerous large animal not much different than trying to lead a wild beast.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

If you have handled worse, why do you need to ask how to handle this one????


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

i wasn't talking about jerking him i an talking about planting your feet when he decides to run in his stall. plant your feet and brace yourself. his head will come around and disengage his hindquarters. people do this same exact thing when they are riding a runaway horse. you pull one rein around disengage the hindquarters. you no longer have a forward horse. i have never been around an ottb not a tb or many other breeds but he needs to get off the high ground and be put in his place or else he will seriously injure someone and he isn't going to care. i wouldn't let him in his stall acting this way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dixieray53 (Jul 25, 2012)

averylilly said:


> Ok i asked how you would handle this horse.Not to tell me to leve my barn or that i sould not handle this horse.I have handled worse and i been rideing and working with horses since a can rember so plz answer my questions or dont comment on my post.


I understand you asked how but we as forum posters also have to be careful on advice as if you as a minor got hurt following my advice, Im sure your parents would be very upset with me. I do not believe anyone told you to leave your barn. I am going to take a guess and say that the barn owner is related to you? You asked for advice, my advice is not to handle the horse and risk injury and that a professional trainer needs to be called in. Being 15 and having been around horses does not make you immune to being hurt, people with double that time around horses get hurt every day including ones with professional training.

I wish you luck and hope you do not get injured with this horse and that you and the owner get it all worked out. 

Tracy


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

averylilly said:


> I really like your answer! You did not blame the onwer or the horse for the way blade acts and you did not say to jerk him around or hit him like alot of people said.I am gonna try just chilling around him.And you did not say you need to refuse to handle him.But His onwer,the barn manger me and the girl that works him are the only one that handle him.The onwer is also the barn onwer and she cant sell him or send him to traing becuase he get more aggressive around people he dose not know. And as bad as he is with people he know he would hurt or really try to kill a trainer or new onwer.Thank you so much for the help!



OMG this horse is SCREWED. All I am hearing is excuses as to why this horse is like this. 

FACT: His behavious isnt from being a race horse (although I do agree they tend to have shotty ground manners- from the few I have handled), It is from you people letting the idiot act like this. 

FACT: It IS ABSOLUTELY only a matter of time before this guy hurts someone....trying to be his friend WILL only make things worse.

FACT: there are some very accomplished horse people giving you some great advice, which you seem to be not willing to heed. 

IMO,one of 2 things should happen... Either get the help of a proffesional who is willing to deal with this dink..Or euth him preferably before he hurts someone or someones child..possibly resulting in a lawsuit.


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

averylilly said:


> Ok i asked how you would handle this horse.Not to tell me to leve my barn or that i sould not handle this horse.I have handled worse and i been rideing and working with horses since a can rember so plz answer my questions or dont comment on my post.


so you have handled worse?? OKOKOK so then please tell me why in praytell are you on a forum asking for advice?? Since obviously you are sooo knowlegeable....

and just a head up, this is a public forum. you asked for advice, and you got it.

Dont like what we have to say, then ignore us and go buy a Pat Parelli book and go be this horses friend


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

At 15 I did not have the sense of self preservation required to safely deal with a situation like this, and thankfully would not have been permitted to handle a horse like this. As a legal adult I have refused to handle horses like this - a job is not worth compromising my life. I have also watched younger coworkers see my stepping back as an opportunity to show their skill, and have seen the injuries that quickly followed. It's not worth it.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but the horse's owner is indeed being extremely irresponsible letting a 15yo handle this horse, regardless of experience. You have a long life ahead of you and at this age would benefit more from watching a professional handle this horse from a safe distance. If working with problem horses appeals to you, then apprentice under a professional who knows what they are doing and has the sense not to use you as a crash test dummy.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

averylilly said:


> Ok so there is this horse at my barn who is soo aggressive.His name is blade he is a 6 year old OTTB.He was very successful on the track and the only reson he was retired is he broke his knee.I know alot of good race horses are not treated good.So heres the problem he is very aggressive.He bits,kicks and strikes out at people all the time.I help with stuff like bringing horses in and takeing them out and feeding ect.But when i bring him in he RUNS in to his stall which really hurts because he will slam you in to the wall or just drags you and when you got to take his halter off he will try to kick bite or get you out of his stall in any way.Getting him out is just as bad if not worse.It takes about half hour to get him out without any one getting hurt.When you try to but his halter on he will turn around and kick or bite you.Then when you have him in the cross tie you have to put a grazing mussle on to keep him from bite people and stand there and keep telling people and kids that walk by to stay far away he kicks.He is also very food aggressive.I think he has been hit alot on the ground becuase rideing him he is like a lesson pony but on the ground he is very dangerous.I need tips on getting him in and out of his stall safely.I am afraid of of this days blade is really going to hurt me or someone else.


Solution....proper training and CONSISTENT handling/training, and a hormone implant. I owned a dun gelding that was an awesome show horse, but very opinionated and agressive on the ground...although NOT with me because I remained consistent in how I handle him on the ground. There was only black and white in manners...NO INBETWEEN or gray areas. AND a hormone implant in his neck every 8 months which leveled his aggressive and testosterone. He became much more willing and agreeable.


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## whiskeynoo (Mar 17, 2010)

The fact that you are only 15 and this horse isn't your's is a reason NOT to handle this horse, the way you described him makes him sound like time bomb, it's only a matter of time before he seriously hurts someone. 
Like most people have said, get a professional, someone who's dealt with these problems and knows how to react and handle them. 
If i owned this horse and couldn't do anything with him i'd get rid.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Beatings, implants and a bullet. Whew. This conversation seems to strike a big nerve.

There ARE some horses that don't respond well to punishment. Thats one reason why they are so difficult another is when the horse is handled by someone who permits greater and greater degrees of disobedience without correction then the horse learns aggression allows it to get its way. Natural aggressive reactiveness and learned disobedience or aggression are two different problems. Learned behavior should respond to pressure release. Aggressive reactivity needs a different answer. 

So why, when someone suggests positive reinforcement like ct do some people get so upset and call it ridiculous? I have had success with aggressive horses and ct. It is a way to spend time with a horse, to build communication. It doesn't mean you don't use negative reinforcement ( pressure/release) at other times. I do. But I also use ct consistently for multiple short sessions every day and get good results. It can be a game changer for a horse with bad behavior. And you can do it safely. If the horse is too aggressive to hand feed, use a pan. Stand behind a barrier. Start slowly. It requires rewarding the slightest try, and just being able to see that can be difficult at first. 

Its better than a battle, beating, or a bullet. And it's safe. But I guess it's not macho enough. Maybe it's too scientific and geeky
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

Ok every one plz stop getting upset!My friend thought it would be funny to post all this stuff that was not true.( I left my laptop up and i was loged on) i am not 15 and i have never handled a horse this nutty!I was just wanted a few tips on how you would handle it and i am thankfull for anyone who is posting on here and trying to help and that thay are woried i will get hurt!It means alot that someone i have never met it concerned about my safey.I think i am gonna tell the barn onwer i will not handle him.And i am sorry she done that she kinda got a temper i read her comments and they were not to nice so i am very sorry and me and her will be have a talk after i finshe typeing this.Sorry!


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

tiffanyodonnell said:


> Beatings, implants and a bullet. Whew. This conversation seems to strike a big nerve.
> 
> There ARE some horses that don't respond well to punishment. Thats one reason why they are so difficult another is when the horse is handled by someone who permits greater and greater degrees of disobedience without correction then the horse learns aggression allows it to get its way. Natural aggressive reactiveness and learned disobedience or aggression are two different problems. Learned behavior should respond to pressure release. Aggressive reactivity needs a different answer.
> 
> ...


Sorry have to disagree......theres no way on this green earth that a horse that is that aggressive and pushy is going to RESPECT your for clicking at him and giving him treats.....there's nothing scientific about clicker training IMO....

If a horse drags me, tries to bite, kick or pin me......he's going to get a wake up call.......
This horse needs negative reinforcement to say its not ok or a good idea to trample, bite, kick or pin/squish ANYBODY......once he learns that,- everything will fall into place.....teaching a RESPECTFUL horse is easy - then you apply positive reinforcement.......no clicker required.....

There's no way that horse would receive much of anything positive from me until he whole heatedly respected me.....


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

averylilly said:


> Ok every one plz stop getting upset!My friend thought it would be funny to post all this stuff that was not true.( I left my laptop up and i was loged on) i am not 15 and i have never handled a horse this nutty!I was just wanted a few tips on how you would handle it and i am thankfull for anyone who is posting on here and trying to help and that thay are woried i will get hurt!It means alot that someone i have never met it concerned about my safey.I think i am gonna tell the barn onwer i will not handle him.And i am sorry she done that she kinda got a temper i read her comments and they were not to nice so i am very sorry and me and her will be have a talk after i finshe typeing this.Sorry!


Ok well please be safe regardless 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

tiffanyodonnell said:


> Beatings, implants and a bullet. Whew. This conversation seems to strike a big nerve.
> 
> There ARE some horses that don't respond well to punishment. Thats one reason why they are so difficult another is when the horse is handled by someone who permits greater and greater degrees of disobedience without correction then the horse learns aggression allows it to get its way. Natural aggressive reactiveness and learned disobedience or aggression are two different problems. Learned behavior should respond to pressure release. Aggressive reactivity needs a different answer.
> 
> ...


Since I am the one who said the CT was ludicrous, I will address this, even tho I now know the OP doesn't know enough to log off her accounts.....:twisted: for days at t time, apparently.....:??? Which I find a little difficult to believe, but, whatever.

Just because I said CT was NOT the way to go withe this horse, I certainly did not advocate abusing the horse. It is obvious that you and I will not agree when it comes to dealing with a horse like this-so have a ball, and I sincerely hope you don't get hurt while bonding. THe fact is there are many gentle easy to handle horses looking for loving homes. Why someone wastes time on one that is as bad as some can get is beyond me. But-to each their own. Hope they have good medical insurance.


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> Ok well please be safe regardless


 Thank you i will!


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Doesn't the forum automatically log you out after a certain period of time....???? If I stay logged in and go back and refresh the page after an hour or two I have to log in again.....does anyone else have to do that ..???????:shock:


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

oh man...I'll have to tell my boss mare to start clicker training then instead of kicking at my other horses when they are invading her space.. 

Hey if it works for you that's AWESOME. But in this scenario, when this child obviously doesn't know what the heck shes doing, It was a dangerous suggestion.

This horse needs to have his a$$ kicked.. by someone who KNOWS how to effectively do it. He is recieving poor handling now, how do you expect these people to effectively train (clicker or otherwise) this horse?? The odds of successfully clicker training(or any training really) an aggressive horse, when you, yourself dont know what your doing is crazily not in the favor of either party.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Clicker training in this situation is about as intelligent as the Parelli suggestion of feeding cookies to fix a biting horse............. *head, desk*


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## averylilly (Oct 17, 2012)

> Doesn't the forum automatically log you out after a certain period of time....???? If I stay logged in and go back and refresh the page after an hour or two I have to log in again.....does anyone else have to do that ..???????


 Yes but i just closed the page and she typed in horseforum.com i was still loged in (like facebook) and she typed i bunch of crap.Yes i did ask her how she got in my account.Sorry agine!


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

themacpack said:


> Clicker training in this situation is about as intelligent as the Parelli suggestion of feeding cookies to fix a biting horse............. *head, desk*


*head - saddle horn*....lol!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Muppetgirl said:


> *head - saddle horn*....lol!


Touche'


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

themacpack said:


> Touche'


I've actually done that! While cackling like some maniacal witch! Worked really well to keep other people from bugging me while I was working on my horse:lol:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

tiffanyodonnell said:


> Beatings, implants and a bullet. Whew. This conversation seems to strike a big nerve..........
> 
> Its better than a battle, beating, or a bullet. And it's safe. But I guess it's not macho enough. Maybe it's too scientific and geeky
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The bullet suggestion was mine. I have been around horses all my life and have been through the difficult ones and, especially in this economy, have come to the conclusion that it no longer makes sense to me to handle a dangerous horse when I can just as easily go find a nice one who is easy to get along with. I have no desire to fill my pasture or spend my money on a horse who has no desire to be easy to handle. So, in my case, she asked how I would handle the horse, I told her. I would actually probably take it to the vet and end its misery or I'd send it to the auction. What I most certainly would not do is endanger myself or someone else's children. 

That's not a nerve, it's a conclusion based on experience and having been there, done that and gotten then injuries to show for it. I've now reached a point in my life where I no longer care to open myself up to a greater likelihood of pain. And I'm most assuredly not going to expose everything I've worked all my life for, to an extreme negligence lawsuit.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Pavlov's dog, BF Skinner, animal behaviorists... Hmmm not scientific enough? Professional animal trainers working with every imaginable creature use it. 

And, its not just with animals. I was at a recent conference for education where the most effective method of working with very autistic children is based in theses principals. Athletic trainers call it TAG method. 

Everyone uses positive reinforcement every day. Horses come running when you shake the grain can. But how do you use that effectively? Using a distinctive sound at the moment an animal responds in the way you want. I don't use a clicker any more, just make a tock sound. But I needed a clicker when I started because it takes some practice responding at the right moment. 

I am not endorsing using treats and a clicker when she is trying to handle the horse, although you can eventually. I also agree that respect and trust are essential and you do have to correct horses. But I think ct can be a huge accelerator of the learning process, particularly with horses who can escalate when you apply pressure. 

It's different.It's just another tool in my tool box when dealing with behavior. I think of every behavior as a function, like in an algebraic equation. When I put x in, y comes out. If positive reinforcement helps me get the response I want faster and safer than negative reinforcement,I'll use it! Even if its butterflies and unicorn farts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Drew catcher, I agree some horses are not worth saving. I grew up in a place where animals got the bullet solution. Done my share. I am saying "try a different approach" before the bullet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

tiffanyodonnell said:


> Pavlov's dog, BF Skinner, animal behaviorists... Hmmm not scientific enough? Professional animal trainers working with every imaginable creature use it.
> 
> And, its not just with animals. I was at a recent conference for education where the most effective method of working with very autistic children is based in theses principals. Athletic trainers call it TAG method.
> 
> ...


Horses are not hunters....they don't hunt or 'work' for their food....they wander around grazing.....they don't see 'treats' as a reward.....they see it as a right....

That's why Pavlov had so much success with his 'dogs'........


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

And I live in a digital wasteland. No Internet, no cable, just crappy, slooow, expensive satellite. So I use my smart phone and one bar of sometimes reception. I'm logged in almost every time I open this web page on my phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

tiffanyodonnell said:


> Drew catcher, I agree some horses are not worth saving. I grew up in a place where animals got the bullet solution. Done my share. I am saying "try a different approach" before the bullet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tiffany, I don't know how old you are but, I'm now old enough that I don't want to deal with the difficult ones. I've gotten hurt bad enough on accident from one of the really really good, easy ones that I've decided the minute I don't like a horse's temper, they are gone. Period. I don't want to try the butterfly and Unicorn fart solutions on them. I actually like CT and Parelli and all the rest on the good horses, I just don't want to be bothered with the difficult ones anymore. I will do a full disclosure and offer them for free most of the time, if someone convinces me they won't get killed trying to handle the horse. If not.....it's over. Though, rather than a bullet, I use the vet for the really incorrigible ones. Hopefully, I'm done getting those in here though.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

It only works with hunters? What research have you looked at to draw this conclusion?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I stayed logged on my phone for hours
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Ok-I for one am out of here....imaginary horses with imaginary issues cured by butterfly farts and unicorns.......Too much for this old brain. Stay safe all!


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

What about mice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

tiffanyodonnell said:


> It only works with hunters? What research have you looked at to draw this conclusion?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope, not saying it ONLY works on hunters......but it is a fact that any food related reward is more appropriate and effective on hunt-prey driven animals.....What about mice? Mi thought we were talking about horses....

My research comes from a University study program based on animal behaviour....and common sense....

Just like Franknbeans I'm rolling out of here.......too many unicorn farts....:lol:


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

And as far as the clicker training I've never used it though I can see how it can work with some horses. This horse is dangerous I don't think ct is right for him. Though positive reinforcement works. Like I said I can't use negative reinforcement to get my mare to do what I want. My gelding if he is acting up I can give him a swat and he says oh I better not do that, but my mare if I give her a swat she says I'm being attacked and ill attack you back. I don't let her run me over though either, I just have to approach things differently with her. That horse that the OP is talking about just needs a professional trainer period!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

tiffanyodonnell said:


> Drew catcher, I agree some horses are not worth saving. I grew up in a place where animals got the bullet solution. Done my share. I am saying "try a different approach" before the bullet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How many people does a horse have to seriously injure or kill before you put it down? I was the first one, I think, to say this horse needed to catch .22 flu. The animal is DANGEROUS, and I guarantee you that no animal is worth a human's life. I will work with an animal having a fear response, even a whole lot of attitude, but downright aggression? Eff that! .22 flu all the way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Dream catcher, I agree. I guess because of my experience with children. I have gotten kids that seemed like they needed a padded room and restraints. But with consistent behavior plans and thoughtful responses,they have been able to recover to the point that they are able to mainstream 90%. There are also kids who, even with all that, end up incarcerated. I believe it's a safe, effective, intelligent tool to try before you give up. I have horses that responded. But I don't have yor experience either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

And I do not follow Parelli. I prefer Clinton Anderson and Alexandra Kurland
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

AveryLilly.. please just stay safe. We don't do obituaries on the HF!! 

BTW I can shut my 'puter off and then go back to the HF on another computer or a tablet or a Smartfone and not have to login again if I have clicked "remember me..." Apparently HorseForum drops a cookie on the HD of each device...


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I have a horse that my friend told me needed a bullet. She is an excellent horse for me now, with ct and a sharp nail! 

Sometimes an animal gets in an escalated state and needs a way to de-escalate and when you do, they are trainable. Some horses are just plain aggressive and beyond help. I agree. I was trying to make the point that you can find out in a safe way what this horse is. 

One of my heroes growing up was old Mr Thompson, my rancher neighbor. People used to bring him horses that they gave up on. He taught me a lot, mostly to stay calm and let the horse teach itself. I wonder what he would say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Don’t Sink To Horse Clicker Training Level : KristineOakhurst.com

Had to come back and leave this link.....this is exactly why I don't agree with turning my horse nt a 1200lb dog with clicker trainng......


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Shawna Karrasch and On Target Training | Positive Reinforcement Clicker Training | Horse Training. 

This is Shawna Karrasch's website. She trains horses for Olympic level riders with ct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I use pressure/ release, punishment and ct. I acknowledge that all of these tools work. After only 4 months of ct ( in addition to the others), I have had great improvement in all around ground and saddle behavior. And my horses are not ill mannered or treat seekers because I taught them not to. It has increased the safety in my barn. When you train with rewards, whether it be food or scratches or rest, you extend duration of the desired behavior untill the reward is completely faded. Does your child only use the potty because you gave him/her a Power Ranger band aid? No, they got it and moved on to other lessons like the 5 paragraph essay
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> Ok-I for one am out of here....imaginary horses with imaginary issues cured by butterfly farts and unicorns.......Too much for this old brain. Stay safe all!



:rofl::rofl: good job that any mythical hurts can be put right by the first aid fairy


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

As someone who is so new to the use of clicker training yourself, tiffany, (seems you only started using it a few months ago) I would think you would be a bit more judicious about offering your expert opinion regarding it's fitness for an approach to a problem horse.....generally one likes to have a bit more experience with practical application to build a confident opinion of it's usefulness.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Themacpack, you are right I do not have the years of experience in ct or any horse training for that matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

for what its worth on this highjacked thread which as become about the value of clicker training. Its the go to method for dolphins, bears, tigers, panda bears, elephants at just about any other animal at the zoo. A recent study published in the journal of comparative psychology found that horses trained with clicker training as opposed to whip and halter corrections were more eager to work, learned faster and had lower levels of cortisol ( a stress hormone) in their blood work. Is clicker training the best solution for this situation who knows? It sounds like with this horse the OP could get hurt regardless of what training strategy they endorse.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

So start a new thread on it. Then those of us who don't wish to read it WON'T! Thanks.


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## ButternutSquash (Sep 10, 2012)

I don't know if someone else has suggested this yet but whenever there is a horse at my farm that pins its ears and turns its butt towards me when i open the stall door, I wait. 

Horses are naturally curious creatures and a lot get impatient and turn around 
to see what your waiting there for. Some horses (mares in particular I've noticed but not only mares) are very grouchy about their space and want to have respect in return. Maybe that's not good training but i give them that right.

Hold out your hand to them if they look at you, ( with biters I would probably hold it palm up until they come closer and flip it sideways so they can smell it but its still inviting) and make soft noises cluck or talk to them just something so they can't forget your their like when cats hear a noise behind something else it makes them more curious.

If their butt isn't turned toward you, like their standing parallel with the back of the stall, wait until, they ***** their ears at you and look at you fully. They don't actually have to come to you but them looking at you is an invitation. Approach their safe spot (just in front of the shoulder) with your hand still reaching out toward their face. Horses greet each other by exchanging scents and some do it by exchanging breaths and that's what I like to do in return. (horsey etiquette lol)

Since this horse has issues with his space then once he invites you in once I'd leave the stall and come back a little later.

Example: If you usually take him out last go to his stall first and try this then go take out a few horses then come back etc. etc.

The next time maybe see if he'll let you touch his face, if he's head shy then maybe stroke his neck or something. A lot of horses like there forelocks rubbed too.

Just take it slow and gentle.

It doesn't really matter if he was abused or is just being a butt, if you cant get help anywhere else then you have to just deal with it in the best way you can.

If he's the kind that runs you over trying to get out of the stall then what i just said probably isn't the best idea but it sounds like he doesnt want to come out of the stall. 

As to the running in the stall problem I don't know if this would work but when one does it at my barn, as soon as they speed up i make them stop and stand still. Then take another etc. until you and the horse are in the stall then turn him around so he's facing the door and slip it off. If you get to the stall and he runs around you take him back and do it again until he waits. I've never dealt with a case as bad as yours but its worked with pushy horses of all kinds including a very large spotted draft cross.

I can't help you with the biting most of ours don't we just have mouthy young ones. One thing I did notice was that one of our OTTB's was lipping at my arm so I gave him a light smack on the nose and then he reached out to nip me so that could have been where it started... as a game to the horse maybe? and its not just a Thoroughbred thing almost every young horse i met was like that. Just push his head away from you is the best I can offer.


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## ButternutSquash (Sep 10, 2012)

If I sound like a complete idiot I'm sorry :\ these are just things that have worked for me and I know it sounds silly to wait for the horse to invite you to them but they seem happier when I do that and they also like when i greet them when i get to the barn. Just walk to their stall and let them smell my hand then walk away no petting or anything. It turned a really anti- social mare into one who'd come and wait to be greeted when she heard it was me. 

 respect is a mutual thing


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Ok. Sorry to have offended you. I'll make sure I stay in my own area. Oh wait. There is no ct area.
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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

This is just conversation.
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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Here is a hint. ct=Clicker TRAINING. Try horse training, which is this area, just not this particular thread.If you prefer, you could put it in the subsection of Natural horsemanship. ;-)


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Thanks
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