# Is this a sign of a "bad" instructor / issues, or things like that just happen?



## beau159

I take it you meant to say a 30 minute lesson? Not 3 minutes?

Falls happen; its a part of riding horses. Jumping horses can get excited; might happen once in a while they have an off day. 

What I don't like is that the instructor LEFT the student (which is wasting your minutes of that 30 minute lesson) mounted on the horse she was having issues with. 

Is it grounds to switch barns entirely? I don't know. It'd be different to see what exactly happened in person. 

Although it makes me raise an eyebrow when two separate horses were having "off" days with the same issues. Either the student isn't being taught how to properly handle these horses .... or the instructor needs to have better lesson horses.


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## horselessmom

beau159 said:


> I take it you meant to say a 30 minute lesson? Not 3 minutes?
> 
> Falls happen; its a part of riding horses. Jumping horses can get excited; might happen once in a while they have an off day.
> 
> What I don't like is that the instructor LEFT the student (which is wasting your minutes of that 30 minute lesson) mounted on the horse she was having issues with.
> 
> Is it grounds to switch barns entirely? I don't know. It'd be different to see what exactly happened in person.
> 
> Although it makes me raise an eyebrow when two separate horses were having "off" days with the same issues. Either the student isn't being taught how to properly handle these horses .... or the instructor needs to have better lesson horses.


As I said, we didn't switch because of this, not at all. 

I was wondering if after a fall from an "off" horse, if, ideally, the instructor shouldn't make more effort the next horse is not "off." The second horse was coming from his "holiday", and the instructor even mentioned that he's been acting out a little, but assured me that my daughter's ride wasn't his first after the holiday. 

These were the only two "off" days for the horses in over a year we were there.


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## ligoleth

Horses can get fresh when they aren't ridden for a while and are put back into work. 

Every spring I have little "talks" with a horse I ride, shooter, because he gets very funky. But after some rides he settles in.


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## 2horses

I am probably more cautious than most people, but I wouldn't take my child to lessons where a chance of falling off was a common occurrence. Of course, I know that falls can happen even on well-trained horses, but I would try to minimize the risk. I think children or beginners should be provided with a trust-worthy horse until they are ready to advance to a more challenging horse. 

I had a student at school who told me that her riding instructor put her on a horse even though it was really acting up. Then the instructor had her walk along the railroad. She ended up falling off, and I just thought about how dangerous that could be. I think sometimes people forget that safety really needs to come first.


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## Cherie

I think the instructor is not enough of a 'horse person' or a 'trainer'. These are different skills than 'instructing'. I think the instructor did a poor job of 'reading' her lesson horses. I think the horse approaching a jump should have, instead, been warmed up better with cantering circles, doing leg-yielding exercises, transitions and the like. Either the instructor should have gotten on the horse and 'tuned it up' herself or taught the student how to get this horse's respect under saddle and get the right attitude and engagement of brain and body before putting a rider into 2 point position and sending them toward a jump.

A big part of teaching riding is teaching a rider how to 'read' a horse and how to work it appropriately until it is ready to go on to the next task, like jumping.

I have had junior riders take lessons on their horse and the horse was not riding the way it should and we spent the entire lesson getting said horse to stay between the rider's legs and reins and stop 'pushing' on them. To send a horse over fences that is not riding right on the flat is asking for run-outs, refusals and other problems like bucking after the jump. You teach a student nothing if you do not insist on good form from the horse, too.

It is back to the old saying of mine "Every rider is a trainer every time they get on a horse." So, you have to teach the riders how to keep a horse honest and to know when they are ready to go over fences.


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## Copperhead

For a kid, lessons are more about having safe fun than anything else. The instructor can be the best out there, but if the kid isn't having fun, he won't want to go.

When I was a kid, my lessons were fun and safe. I fell off after my first year of riding and that was my own fault, no one else's. Jumping horses can be bouncy pouncy and excited when going over jumps. Even the dead heads.

My instructor never left the arena during a lesson. Never spoke on a cellphone. She wasn't the most educated, but she kept us all safe. Only when I switched instructors and "upped" my game did I start falling off more often. Even then, each fall had their valuable lesson and I learned. 

Last summer I started my daughter out on lessons with my original instructor. She's 3 and again, even though the instructor isn't the most educated, I know she'll keep her very safe. She'll be as safe as she can be until she's older and makes the decision to either "up" her game or stay where she's at.


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## ~*~anebel~*~

When I was a kid we all did stupid stuff and fell off a lot and learned a lot. I used to fall off almost every jumping lesson, sometimes more than once (lots of times actually haha).

Sure, if the horse is totally unsuitable, don't ride it. But all horses have off days. My instructor (at the time I would have been 9) put me on her OTTB jumper mare and I got piled into a wall hard enough to warrant a trip to the ER. That was an unsuitable horse. But every horse has off days and you have to learn to deal with it. Once you learn to ride a buck, then you learn how to keep the horse from bucking at all. Riding is not all rainbows and butterflies, it's a lot of hard work and every horse is dangerous unless it's dead.
Now, the mare would be cake for me. But I've challenged myself in my riding a lot. Yes, there are unsuitable horses but we have to learn to ride through some "off days" on the good ones to eventually move up to the more difficult horses again and again and sometimes we become over faced and that's how we learn to develop as riders. I'm still dumb enough to get on pretty much anything, but humble enough that if it's too much horse I will get off and hand the thing back. But that happens less and less and less and now as a coach I have to be prepared to hop on misbehaving horses and sort them out, which I am and I do. But I wouldn't be where I am in my riding without getting piled as often as I did as a kid and doing the dumb stuff like galloping through fields and jumping too high. We, as a species (humans), learn from our own mistakes. We can see someone on an icy road drive off into the ditch and will drive by laughing only to end up in the ditch. And until that happens to us we don't learn to slow down on icy roads. Riding is dangerous and we unfortunately have to make a lot of mistakes that sometimes result in leaving the tack. Don't like it, buy your kid a Game Boy. Bikes are even dangerous, kids fall of bikes all the time.

I would not fault the instructor or the barn one bit, except for leaving to get a different bit. I don't know how a bit will stop the hid end from hopping up or bucking - ride harder and sit against it. Leg yield, move the horse's legs and go faster or more sideways. Putting a bigger bit in is not riding.


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## horselessmom

This is great to know that this is within normal. Due to the instructor's poor communication skills in general I'm not sure on what terms we parted. We've been planning to switch barns for a while, and I mentioned this possibility to the instructor. Then there were a bunch of weather related cancellations, and then we ended up coming to the barn and she'd forgotten to let us know that the lesson was cancelled, so we pretty much didn't have a chance to talk in person about it all (and I was ****ed that she didn't let us know) but it wasn't the reason we left. We really loved that instructor, but DD just wanted to try Western and we both wanted a shorter commute. 

Anyway, I was just worried that the instructor might think that we left because of the horses, but if it is within normal, she probably doesn't think that.

I did write her an email with many thanks, and that DD had a great year etc, but I know she doesn't reply to emails of those who left. 

Anyway, she was a really nice instructor, but I'm only now realising that her lack of communication skills was a bit draining. Especially in comparison to the current instructor. When this one said, "I'll just bring a horse in, and will be right back" i realized that the other one would just silently march away from the barn, and DD would run after her trying to figure out whether she's supposed to wait, to follow, or what. lol We just got used to her not talking much. Everyone's different.


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## deserthorsewoman

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> When I was a kid we all did stupid stuff and fell off a lot and learned a lot. I used to fall off almost every jumping lesson, sometimes more than once (lots of times actually haha).
> 
> Sure, if the horse is totally unsuitable, don't ride it. But all horses have off days. My instructor (at the time I would have been 9) put me on her OTTB jumper mare and I got piled into a wall hard enough to warrant a trip to the ER. That was an unsuitable horse. But every horse has off days and you have to learn to deal with it. Once you learn to ride a buck, then you learn how to keep the horse from bucking at all. Riding is not all rainbows and butterflies, it's a lot of hard work and every horse is dangerous unless it's dead.
> Now, the mare would be cake for me. But I've challenged myself in my riding a lot. Yes, there are unsuitable horses but we have to learn to ride through some "off days" on the good ones to eventually move up to the more difficult horses again and again and sometimes we become over faced and that's how we learn to develop as riders. I'm still dumb enough to get on pretty much anything, but humble enough that if it's too much horse I will get off and hand the thing back. But that happens less and less and less and now as a coach I have to be prepared to hop on misbehaving horses and sort them out, which I am and I do. But I wouldn't be where I am in my riding without getting piled as often as I did as a kid and doing the dumb stuff like galloping through fields and jumping too high. We, as a species (humans), learn from our own mistakes. We can see someone on an icy road drive off into the ditch and will drive by laughing only to end up in the ditch. And until that happens to us we don't learn to slow down on icy roads. Riding is dangerous and we unfortunately have to make a lot of mistakes that sometimes result in leaving the tack. Don't like it, buy your kid a Game Boy. Bikes are even dangerous, kids fall of bikes all the time.
> 
> I would not fault the instructor or the barn one bit, except for leaving to get a different bit. I don't know how a bit will stop the hid end from hopping up or bucking - ride harder and sit against it. Leg yield, move the horse's legs and go faster or more sideways. Putting a bigger bit in is not riding.


Tataaaaaaaaaa....I wholeheartedly and absolutely agree with you on this!!!!;-)
Learning from mistakes, handling situations better, learn to read horses, learn what to do if the dependable school horse is frisky....all part of becoming a rider.
jumping after half-hour weekly lessons is, IMO too early.


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## horselessmom

deserthorsewoman said:


> Tataaaaaaaaaa....I wholeheartedly and absolutely agree with you on this!!!!;-)
> Learning from mistakes, handling situations better, learn to read horses, learn what to do if the dependable school horse is frisky....all part of becoming a rider.
> jumping after half-hour weekly lessons is, IMO too early.


My daughter absolutely loved that she got to experience those situations. She said that this is the only way for her to get a feel for it and to learn how to handle herself and the horse. 

She loved jumping, but switched into a Western barn as eagerly and now loves all the instruction she's getting on steering.


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## deserthorsewoman

horselessmom said:


> My daughter absolutely loved that she got to experience those situations. She said that this is the only way for her to get a feel for it and to learn how to handle herself and the horse.
> 
> She loved jumping, but switched into a Western barn as eagerly and now loves all the instruction she's getting on steering.


Great! Then she'll stick with it
Overcoming these obstacles makes her strong and confident....not only around horses.


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## Delfina

Horses don't always behave like they should so a horse can, out the blue, decide to act like a twit.

My youngest kiddo arrived early for her lesson so my trainer told her she could go grab her very ancient, deadbroke pony from the pasture. Pony saw her, spun around and kicked her. The pony had NEVER so much as threatened to kick anyone before! 

I had a lesson horse that got mad that I was insisting that he needed to pick up speed at the trot and took off at a dead gallop. I will never forget my trainer very calmly saying "Oooook.... we didn't need him quite that fast, lets slow down a bit". I've NEVER had that horse do that again (trainer is now a very good friend and lets me ride him whenever) and I even trust him with both my kiddos. 

My kiddos current lesson pony is known as the "one speed wonder" (his one speed is a dead stop), I've ridden him many times and it's the same ride each time... go, go, go, I mean freakin GO!! He makes Western Pleasure horses look speedy..... which is great for beginning riders but I'm falling asleep up there! My horse was on stall rest and the trainer wanted some company on a trail ride with a fresh horse so I took him since the deadhead would make a great, steady, calm companion horse, right? Nope.... took one look at a LEAF, jumped the leaf and took off at a gallop. I nearly fell off laughing at him since the fresh horse was just standing there going "what is your problem dude... it's a LEAF!" but boy was I grateful I was riding and not my kids!


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## Skyseternalangel

deserthorsewoman said:


> .
> jumping after half-hour weekly lessons is, IMO too early.


Umm... I don't see how this makes sense.

Any time spent in the saddle over a year can lead to riding more advanced. Even 30 minutes each week (which is what I was doing, as was my ride-mate who DID learn to jump)

I would never leave a child unattended... especially on a squirrely horse. My past riding instructors would have me get off and they get on to feel the horse to see if it was the horse messing with the rider or if there was something going on with the horse itself. Once that was sorted, I'd get back on.


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## deserthorsewoman

Skyseternalangel said:


> Umm... I don't see how this makes sense.
> 
> Any time spent in the saddle over a year can lead to riding more advanced. Even 30 minutes each week (which is what I was doing, as was my ride-mate who DID learn to jump)
> 
> I would never leave a child unattended... especially on a squirrely horse. My past riding instructors would have me get off and they get on to feel the horse to see if it was the horse messing with the rider or if there was something going on with the horse itself. Once that was sorted, I'd get back on.


 Well, maybe I'm too "old school" then. With weekly lessons, we would start out with cavaletti work to learn the two-point, and do, at the most, 3,4 cavalettis low and the last with a little more distance, at it's highest setting. And of course trot only.
I have seen the other extreme.4 or 5 lessons and kids jump...no idea on steering and what correct brakes are, but " my kid is jumping". You can imagine what kind of rider that will create......


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## natisha

Skyseternalangel said:


> Umm... I don't see how this makes sense.
> 
> Any time spent in the saddle over a year can lead to riding more advanced. Even 30 minutes each week (which is what I was doing, as was my ride-mate who DID learn to jump)
> 
> I would never leave a child unattended... especially on a squirrely horse. My past riding instructors would have me get off and they get on to feel the horse to see if it was the horse messing with the rider or if there was something going on with the horse itself. Once that was sorted, I'd get back on.


It makes sense to me. That's only 24 hours of riding time for a 9 year old. Someone older could possibly do it. Gifted or not that's a short time to learn a lot of things.


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## faye

Riding idiot ponies or difficult ones is what has made me the rider I am today.
We started with Harvey who was a Difficult "safe" pony, in that he was difficult to ride, very oppinionated and would regularly tip you onto the floor (girls on the yard used to take bets on it) however he was not a bolter, a bucker or a rearer. When he put you on the floor it was never hard enough to do any serious damage. 
I graduated from him to Pride who was safe as houses but only if you could actualy get him moving in the first place and he was a nightmare on the ground.
Then went to the nutty arab who was explosive and speed inclined. 
Then I got stan who was highly schooled, quirky and had one heck of a buck in him.

All those ponies have made me as a rider and I wouldnt change them for the world. They have given me the skills to deal with a pony who is not a robot!


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## deserthorsewoman

Every schoolhorse has a quirk. It's up to the instructor to put the right kid on the right pony at the right moment.
I remember well, I " graduated" from the robot horse, slowly slowly, to the most educated, but also most quirky( boy could she buck), WITHIN MY GROUP.if I had to ride in a different group, especially higher level, I got robot horse. To learn without distraction. Once I had it down, I would again graduate.


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## Skyseternalangel

deserthorsewoman said:


> Well, maybe I'm too "old school" then. With weekly lessons, we would start out with cavaletti work to learn the two-point, and do, at the most, 3,4 cavalettis low and the last with a little more distance, at it's highest setting. And of course trot only.
> I have seen the other extreme.4 or 5 lessons and kids jump...no idea on steering and what correct brakes are, but " my kid is jumping". You can imagine what kind of rider that will create......





natisha said:


> It makes sense to me. That's only 24 hours of riding time for a 9 year old. Someone older could possibly do it. Gifted or not that's a short time to learn a lot of things.


Okay I see your point now. Deserthorsewoman, I too am "old schooled" in terms of drawing out each lesson so one learns correctly the entire way before he or she advances.

But little ones can improve a lot in just one lesson, especially if on a horse that is forgiving. I would definitely not rush to jump (I don't even jump) but if the rider had a secure seat in walk trot, and canter.. then yeah it'd be logical to try the next step up.

And wouldn't it be 26 hours? 52 weeks, 30 mins per week... 26 hours...?


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## deserthorsewoman

Minus one week Xmas and one week Easter and 2 weeks summer holidays with the grandparents.....


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## Gallopingiggles

30 minutes once a week seems kind of short to me, does the time start the minute the child hits the seat? I agree wholeheartily with everything Cherie posted.
Stang


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## LisaG

Gallopingiggles said:


> 30 minutes once a week seems kind of short to me, does the time start the minute the child hits the seat? I agree wholeheartily with everything Cherie posted.
> Stang


Me, too. Yes, it's great to learn how to handle a horse that's acting up. But it's not realistic to expect a child to do this if the instructor doesn't teach them how, if they don't have much riding experience, and if they end up so badly hurt or shook up that they stop riding (fortunately that didn't happen to your kid).

I don't really know what went on, but from what you described, the instructor didn't handle the situation very well. Horses can be very dangerous, especially when riders are young and inexperienced.


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## natisha

Skyseternalangel said:


> Okay I see your point now. Deserthorsewoman, I too am "old schooled" in terms of drawing out each lesson so one learns correctly the entire way before he or she advances.
> 
> But little ones can improve a lot in just one lesson, especially if on a horse that is forgiving. I would definitely not rush to jump (I don't even jump) but if the rider had a secure seat in walk trot, and canter.. then yeah it'd be logical to try the next step up.
> 
> And wouldn't it be 26 hours? 52 weeks, 30 mins per week... 26 hours...?


LOL, I took the easy math, 12 months X2 hours.


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## equitate

One 30 minute lesson a week is not enough imho to teach a kid to be able to jump. What are they doing in the lesson? Work on a lunge? All three gaits? With contact? With and without stirrups? Two point? There has to be some sort of confidence by the horse in the rider as well.


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## deserthorsewoman

equitate said:


> One 30 minute lesson a week is not enough imho to teach a kid to be able to jump. What are they doing in the lesson? Work on a lunge? All three gaits? With contact? With and without stirrups? Two point? There has to be some sort of confidence by the horse in the rider as well.


looks like we think a lot alike......;-)


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## horselessmom

equitate said:


> One 30 minute lesson a week is not enough imho to teach a kid to be able to jump. What are they doing in the lesson? Work on a lunge? All three gaits? With contact? With and without stirrups? Two point? There has to be some sort of confidence by the horse in the rider as well.


I think the trainer built it up really nicely, actually, even with the 30 minutes lessons. Most lessons she'd do 2-point and all gaits, every third lesson or so she'd do gaits without stirrups...She started there with a couple of months on the lunge--all gaits, no stirrups, no hands, and all kind of balance exercises. 

For the last 5-6 month she was doing cavalletti with raised poles at canter. 

I think it was a good program, but I just wish the lessons were longer. Now we found longer lessons, but she also changed disciplines, and her first 4 lessons she mostly worked on steering, which she really loved. 

The new place seems to be very different in the style of teaching, and I don't know yet which one is best, but the atmosphere is more positive in the new barn.


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