# Trakehner/Arabian Cross



## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Hi Everyone,

I am going to be breeding my purebred Arabian Mare to a Trakehner stallion by the name of Hadrian.
I have attached some pictures. What do you think?
The stallion is 17'2, the mare is 15'2.
Thanks!!  Sarah


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## charlicata (Jan 12, 2010)

I know nothing about breeding...other than what I've read on here and the little bit of research that I've done myself within the past couple of weeks, but that is a beautiful stallion.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

ooooh...i don't even like chestnuts,but he really caught my eye. very flashy! don't know about trakehner bloodlines at all so i have no idea on the cross. just wanted to say he is perty


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

crazyequine said:


> I am going to be breeding my purebred Arabian Mare to a Trakehner stallion by the name of Hadrian.
> What do you think?


What do I think about what? The compatibility of mare and stallion from a conformational standpoint? The idea of crossbreeding? The idea of breeding at all in this economy and current state of affairs? The idea of the possible outcome of the pairing in terms of athleticism, discipline, color?

You've already decided to do it, so the opinions of others is irrelevant. So, I'm really not getting the point of your post at all.


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## AlabamaHorseMom (Jan 20, 2010)

Mercedes said:


> What do I think about what? The compatibility of mare and stallion from a conformational standpoint? The idea of crossbreeding? The idea of breeding at all in this economy and current state of affairs? The idea of the possible outcome of the pairing in terms of athleticism, discipline, color?
> 
> You've already decided to do it, so the opinions of others is irrelevant. So, I'm really not getting the point of your post at all.


I know how you feel, and i agree. But OUCH. 
I'm sorry and I dont want to stir the pot, but I also believe if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all. What truly WAS you poin of even replying?

By the way OP, the Stallion is Gorgeous.


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Ouch.
Just wanted a conformational opinion...I don't think there is any harm in me asking.
I don't understand why you are so harsh. Are you Mercedes from The Mane Street? If it is you, I have heard terrific things about you and your knowledge of horses - I would expect that you would want to share your insight, not be rude to me.

If my initial post was not clear, I apologize, yes, I would like a conformational opinion.


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## Plains Drifter (Aug 4, 2009)

Sorry..I don't have any comments regarding conformation or about the trakehnar breed, but I did want to say while I'm not a big fans on sorrels/chesnuts, he's gorgeous! Congrats.


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

I should also say this horse is just for me - an amateur dressage horse - I have no plans on breding again or selling the baby.

Sarah


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

Mercedes said:


> What do I think about what? The compatibility of mare and stallion from a conformational standpoint? The idea of crossbreeding? The idea of breeding at all in this economy and current state of affairs? The idea of the possible outcome of the pairing in terms of athleticism, discipline, color?
> 
> You've already decided to do it, so the opinions of others is irrelevant. So, I'm really not getting the point of your post at all.


 
I think that that was uncalled for :-| Yes, she could have made her post more clear from the beginning but no need to bash her so harshly right off the bat.

BTW, OP, the stallion and mare are both good looking :wink:


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

AlabamaHorseMom said:


> I know how you feel, and i agree. But OUCH.
> I'm sorry and I dont want to stir the pot, but I also believe if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all. What truly WAS you poin of even replying?


Nothing I said was 'not nice'. 

I asked relevant questions of the OP so as to, 

1) get a better understanding of what exact opinion was being asked for, 

2) to get a better understanding of the motivations of the OP, since it seemed contradictory and illogical to ask opinions about a decision that's already been made.

Now, what was your point of posting a completely irrelevant, and off topic post? For someone claiming to not what to stir the pot, you've sure dipped your spoon in, eh?


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Curly_Horse_CMT said:


> I think that that was uncalled for :-| Yes, she could have made her post more clear from the beginning but no need to bash her so harshly right off the bat.


Where was the bash?

Asking pointed, straight forward questions for clarity is defined as a bash? Since when? 

Pointing out to the OP that opinions of others are irrelevant if one has already made their decision is a bash? Again, since when?


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Okay, thank you everyone for your posts. I don't want this thread to go any further as it was not inteded to start any negativity.

Thanks everyone! 
Have a great day and enjoy your horses!!!!!


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

The picture of your mare is really too small to say what her conformation is. 

As an aside, I don't see that Mercedes did or said anything out of line. She was stating her reply and it was the exact thing I was thinking - what was the point of the question. The OP has since stated it was conformational but the pictures are not adequate enough to make an assessment.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

crazyequine said:


> Ouch.
> Just wanted a conformational opinion...I don't think there is any harm in me asking.
> I don't understand why you are so harsh. Are you Mercedes from The Mane Street? If it is you, I have heard terrific things about you and your knowledge of horses - I would expect that you would want to share your insight, not be rude to me.
> 
> If my initial post was not clear, I apologize, yes, I would like a conformational opinion.


For a conformational opinion we require an equally ideal confo photo of the mare as the one presented of the stallion.

Next, we'd need to know your desired outcome for the offspring. Discipline, level of achievement, training resources, and so on.

I am, one and the same. I'll happily share, as anyone who knows me will attest to. At the same time, I require people to be specific and honest about their motivations and expectations so that I can give the best possible answer for them. 

I wasn't being rude. It's called being forthright. I have no inclination to play word games, stroke anyone's ego, guess, or waste time and energy via any other means. If you want the answer, ask, but don't expect it to come wrapped in anything but the truth. I can't guarantee that you'll like the answer, but since you're receiving free knowledge acquired over decades, you don't get to decide how it's delivered. When you're paying me, then you have a say.


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Fair enough Mercedes. Thank you for your insight...


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

I understand the mare photo is poor - my apologies. If you can take a look at the Stallion, it would be appreciated. I plan to use the offspring for amateur dressage, as to achieve what level, I am not sure. I am a recreational rider - I do not compete at high levels. I currently work with a level II Dressage coach (Canada).


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

If you have pictures of the mare, that would help get the answers you are looking for. The stallion looks pretty good, but that wouldn't mean squat if the mare's conformation is bad (not saying it is, can't tell). Pictures without a rider on her back are the best.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

crazyequine said:


> I understand the mare photo is poor - my apologies. If you can take a look at the Stallion, it would be appreciated. I plan to use the offspring for amateur dressage, as to achieve what level, I am not sure. I am a recreational rider - I do not compete at high levels. I currently work with a level II Dressage coach (Canada).


There is not much not to like about this stallion for a dressage prospect offspring, and the potential for medium and above when paired with the right mare should be very favorable.

He has great substance (based on that alone I would not have guessed him to be a Trak), the low knee and long forearm needed for the right kind of movement and ability for lateral movement. 

The angle of the photo is a little off so determining exact shoulder slope and angle is difficult, but they appear to be more than adequate with the shoulder laidback and the angle open. 

Excellent length to the humerus bone. The pasterns are medium in length, as is the back.

The hip is long, the loin coupling strong and deep. The hock and stifle are also well-placed.

My biggest knock on him, for you, is his size. 17.2h is a lot of horse for a recreational rider to ride. The amount of power and movement compared to an Arabian is, frankly, not comparable. Controlling the haunches, keeping the horse straight, and all that goes with it, is a daunting task.

It's quite possible you won't get such a large horse with an Arabian mare...but here comes my next concern...I never like to breed a bigger stallion onto a smaller mare. Nature is clever, and usually finds a way to adapt, but not always. The risks are increased for such a pairing.

I believe you'd be better served breeding your mare to another Arabian...or, if you're desire is to improve your chances for getting a dressage suitable offspring, then breed her to a Lippizanner stallion...particularly of the Siglavy line, though any line has a high chance of success.


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Well I have attached the only picture I have at my disposal right now. I don't believe I actually have a picture of her standing square and I do understand, now, that I will need this to get an accurate assessment. So, I will get one!!!
Although it started off rockey, I have learned a few things here today! Thanks everyone!


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Mercedes thank you so much. You come with a great reputation of being a knowledgeable horse person and your opinion is very appreciated.
Sarah


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

She's pretty but get some pictures and you'll get a good assessment.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

crazyequine, 

Just curious, have you considered buying a 1 - 3 year old dressage prospect instead of breeding your mare? It would most certainly be less expensive, and you'd be riding your youngster in 1 - 3 years rather 4 - 5 if you breed. With the current economy, you can get a really good deal on a young prospect, however, vet care, farrier bills, hay, etc. have stayed static. Also, breeding a mare, particularly cross breeding disparate individuals, is a little like buying a pig in a poke - you have very little idea what you'll end up with.

Unless I had an absolutly spectacular mare, with an extraordinary performance record, excellent conformation and bloodlines that indicated she would breed true to type, I would buy rather than breed. Just my opinion.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Gorgeous horses, I'm excited to see what they produce together


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I do really like the stallion; if he's local to you, I'd love to see his get on the ground.


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Maura - www.gethorses.net

Enjoy!
Sarah


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I had found that on my own, by Googling, but thanks for posting. Yes, his get is impressive too.


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

I would love to see that cross! And with those colors, it would be a gorgeous surprise!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

A larger stallion has no more chance of producing an unnaturally large foal then a like size stallion would. The development of the foal in the uterus is not determined by the size of the parents, it is determined by the conditions of the mare and how her body chooses to develop the foal. I have, personally, never heard of a large stallion causing any more problems with large foals then an average size stallion. The risk of a large foal can happen with or without a large stallion.

I bred my tiny 14hh Arabian mare to a 17hh Hanoverian stud with massive substance. Not only did she have zero problems foaling unassisted after her pregnancy went unnoticed (we had her checked three times, vet told me she didn't catch), the little mare only matured to 14.3hh - which is the same as my pure Arabian mare from the same dam and a 15hh Arab stud.

I would never let height and size hold me back from breeding. There is no documented evidence of it being anywhere near scientific fact that a large stallion can pose a risk to a smaller mare. I *may* be concerned if it was a Shire stud and a Miniature mare, but that's a little extreme. A height difference of several hands is done thousands of times a day in breedings around the world.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> A larger stallion has no more chance of producing an unnaturally large foal then a like size stallion would. The development of the foal in the uterus is not determined by the size of the parents, it is determined by the conditions of the mare and how her body chooses to develop the foal. I have, personally, never heard of a large stallion causing any more problems with large foals then an average size stallion. The risk of a large foal can happen with or without a large stallion.




That's how it's suppose to work. It doesn't always, why increase the odds by adding fuel to the genetic fire? Because you got lucky once? 

But of course you can show the documented studies of this, right?
 


> A height difference of several hands is done thousands of times a day in breedings around the world.


Really? Now, where's that documented proof? It is NOT done thousands of times a day in breedings all around the world.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Read the article in the middle: Oakshire Farm - Home of PATRIOT -- reg. Shire Stallion


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Interesting article kassierae...thanks!


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

No prob. I don't particularly agree with the breed, but then again I don't really agree with anyone breeding unless their horse is a spectacular example of the breed. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Breeding is NOT about creating more horses, it's about being selective and aiming to outproduce the sire and dam. Unless the mare and stallion are of excellent quality, I don't think they should be bred. But that's only my opinion and you can't change someone who's mind is made up.


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

I have thought long and hard about breeding - it's not a decision I made on a whim. I am truly excited about it, but can understand why people don't necessarily agree with it given the economic times and the unwanted horses out there. I am breeding for myself and it will be this one and only time. I have no plans to become and breeder and this foal will be mine. I fully accept the responsibility that comes with breeding. I am not a careless owner.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Yes but just make sure that you breed something that is marketable. There is absolutely no way to tell if five or ten years from now your financial position will be stable enough for a horse, and I'm not saying that to be mean, because it's true. No matter how many times you say the foal is a forever horse, there is no guarantee that you will be able to keep it for the 30 or so years of its life. Also, the cost is alot. There's the stud fee, vet checks, vet coming out after baby is born, etc. My grandmother has bred horses before, and my pony has been bred, and I thought that I would be able to keep Gypsy for her whole life. Well, things changed and I ended up having to sell her. Thank god she was a cute little pinto pony, perfect for a little girl, or I wouldn't have been able to sell her. There's more to breeding than just having a baby.


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

Thank you for your insight and advice Kassierae - as I said, I didn't make the decision on a whim and I have researched, consulted professionals and spoken with my veterinarians regarding everything from pre breeding checks to costs. I know there is more to breeding than just having a baby - I am a responsible adult and understand what I am getting into. Although I have never bred a horse, I have owned horses all my life.
I know you are speaking from experience and I appreciate that.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I'm glad to give advice. I may be young but I have been around a lot and have seen a lot. I have seen probably more than a hundred horses come through my grandmother's house since I was little. She buys and sells things constantly. It's slowed down now that she's older(61) but she still does it. Right now she wants to breed her buckskin colt(decent lines) to her two mares(one grade possible QH and one grade paint with only her mother's side of the pedigree). She also bred her dogs(a JRT x Doxie and a JRT x possible fox terrier) twice. I think it's ridiculous. For the amount of mutt horses and dogs out there and for the amount it costs it's just cheaper to buy one and raise it. Not to mention that's one less horse going to slaughter(which I am not fully against, but that's another matter!). I just hate seeing so many crappy horses(not saying your mare is crappy) being bred because they have pretty kolor and the owners want a kyoot baby.


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## crazyequine (Jan 25, 2010)

That does sound ridiculous!! What a shame. People like your grandmother is why I make monthly contributions to the BCSPCA, why I have rescued another dog and why I ended up with a 21 year old mare with arthritis who was unrideable!! Over breeding and herd dispersal because of no money!
Good for you for being so sensible!!!


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

The only thing about her puppies is that all four had homes waiting for them. I do enjoy having the pups around, and this current litter was born on Christmas eve. Just two pups, one male, one female. The little male is such a cuddler and he's got this uber kissable nose. I also like having foals around, I work better with young horses than I do older horses. I find it very stimulating(like a high, sort of) when the youngster I have been trying to teach something finally gets it and understands what I want. But that doesn't justify the breeding. Her colt would actually cross VERY well with her paint mare. His faults are outweighed by hers, and vise versa. She has excellent conformation, nice substance and bone but a little lacking in the hind end department. The colt has a very nicely put together hind end, which in turn should balance her out. It's still a toss up as to whether she's doing it or not, but no matter what I say when she makes up her mind it is set and there is nothing I can do to change it. In the end they are HER horses to do whatever she wants with.


Sorry for the novel.


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