# Truck / trailer performance



## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

Are you REALLY sure on the grades numbers? 

I have never seen a road with a 15 to 16% grade, and I been pretty much all over the US.


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## lb27312 (Aug 25, 2018)

Here's my response.... I have a steep grade coming into my neighborhood that's probably that steep or more but it's a short ride... 

I'll try to answer but I don't think they are good answers... 

1. At the end of it, the trailer brakes smell like hot plastic. Is this bad?-------- Yes I would think you have your trailer brake controller in your truck not set right, both truck and trailer should work together, sounds like the trailer is braking harder than the truck. I don't ever remember a smell from my trailer when it was new.

2. Or is 15 mph pretty pathetic? -------- Sorry but that's pretty pathetic but I think that's Gas... I usually can pass at 55+ going up steep grades passing gas vehicles even smaller ones. But I drive in the mountains pretty regularly which is why I went with diesel.. 

Yeah I agree with @Zimalia22 grades that steep are very rare and would probably be very short... there's a grade going over to TN from here on 40 that is a scary steep grade and it's several miles... towards the end I am always checking my temp if it's in the heat of the day... I have 2 radiators and temp controllers that I watch, one for the radiator and one for the transmission...


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Yes, it's gas. I suppose that might explain it.

And yes I'm sure on the grade. These are the hills people come out to train on, and you can find information about the grade online. The hill that is a little less steep than this one is actually 13.8 at the top. People have ranked the highest graded roads in the city for training purposes, and this one is like number three. Well, the one that's a little less steep is 13.8. So OK to be fair I'm estimating 15, based on the fact that I've been walking up and down those hills for years and I am pretty familiar with them both. This one is somewhat worse than the 13.8 one.

I was also looking up information about road grades online after this, and I agree that a grade of more than 20% is pretty rare. You can find a list of 10-20 roads like that in the US, and they are all minor neighborhood roads like this one is.

When we had out big freeze last year, the people who lived over there were trapped for four days because they couldn't get their vehicles, even the guy with the truck like mine, up those hills in the snow.

I'm glad this isn't something I will encounter on a regular basis, but I wanted to be sure that my rig could do it, before my big (eventual) trip.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Zimalia22 said:


> Are you REALLY sure on the grades numbers?
> 
> I have never seen a road with a 15 to 16% grade, and I been pretty much all over the US.


We have them in the Alegheny National Forest, going up to camp. I used to hand my BFF a12 pack and tell her to start drinking, the minute we rolled out the driveway😂. Not kidding on that😳

The climb into Belvedere, TN to the Circle E guest Ranch is posted as a 15% grade. Big Bear, CA also has a hair raising roller coaster section, coming down into Hemet.

I doubt the OP is dealing with that big of a grade, unless it is posted. Stop riding the brakes, down shift and your brakes will last a lot longer if you’re already smoking them with an empty trailer.

You can also pump your brakes but stop riding them or you’ll never get out of Texas😀

Why I love my old standard shift———-


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

The truck, in addition to regular drive, has a 1 and 2 gear. It also has a "manual transmission" option that I haven't really looked into because it seems really weird to me -- how can you have a manual transmission on an automatic transmission? Going down a hill like that, would you use 1 or 2 gear? 

And if I'm only in a lower gear, and not using the brakes, then won't the trailer push me from behind?

I've been looking at trucker forums too, LOL. I'm trying to figure out the very best way to handle this. I'm reading something similar there -- start in a low gear, let your speed drift up maybe 10 mph, then use your brakes, all the way down. I guess I'm not sure which "gear" to use.


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## lb27312 (Aug 25, 2018)

@ACinATX - Are you using your tow haul mode? when hauling your trailer? Also do you have the exhaust brake? ETA Yes these trucks have manual drive but you have to remember to shift when you hear that you need to. I have used it but that's when I know I'm not going fast

@walkinthewalk - yep there's a few here like that... I just want to get out of the truck and kiss the ground, my knees would be shaking! But these roads are to parks so probably not listed... whew I've grown quite a few grey hairs on some of the roads.... there's even some roads up in South Fork, TN like that...


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

ACinATX said:


> The truck, in addition to regular drive, has a 1 and 2 gear. It also has a "manual transmission" option that I haven't really looked into because it seems really weird to me -- how can you have a manual transmission on an automatic transmission? Going down a hill like that, would you use 1 or 2 gear?
> 
> And if I'm only in a lower gear, and not using the brakes, then won't the trailer push me from behind?
> 
> I've been looking at trucker forums too, LOL. I'm trying to figure out the very best way to handle this. I'm reading something similar there -- start in a low gear, let your speed drift up maybe 10 mph, then use your brakes, all the way down. I guess I'm not sure which "gear" to use.


That is not question anyone can safely answer because every situation is different.

I really really think you should find someone experienced and hire them to drive your truck/trailer to the PNW. You can fly them back and they can have someone pick them up at the airport. That is what I did for the two young men who drove the Ryder trucks both times I moved cross country They were farm guys my son had gone to school with and experienced with hauling equipment on Lowboys.

You following with DH and daughter in other vehicles would be the safest thing because, truthfully, those of us who have done this many times are worried about your safety and the safety of the horses if you insist on driving them yourself— and that means you stay out of the truck; my good friend was a lot better than you and I needed her lips continually on a beer can to keep from going “ah!ah! Did you see that?”, on and on 😰


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

It's not a "manual Transmission" it is an option to manually shift the automatic transmission. You should use a lower gear going down an extremely steep hill. conversely when possible build up your speed before you start going up a steep hill. Don't ride the brakes constantly or you will overheat your brakes then you will basically have none. As said above brake some then get off of them and help them cool, then you can hit them again. Don't hesitate on long down hill grades to pull over and let things cool down if you are smelling brakes that bad, the next step will be brake fade and then things will really get exciting. Also if you don't know how to correctly setup your brake controls to have the trailer brakes come on at the correct time have someone who does know how to adjust your controller for you.


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## puff (Jan 18, 2021)

Gear down so you don't have to do more than tap your brakes


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## lb27312 (Aug 25, 2018)

In tow haul mode these trucks automatically gear down.... if you tap the brakes more than once it will start downshifting... and some of them have an exhaust brake so you really don't have to do much but tap the brakes and it goes into a downshift mode and it will keep you at a certain speed and you DON'T have to hit your brakes again unless you apply the gas for a certain amount of time... 

Now I'm not technical but I've been driving my '15 diesel truck all over and I tend to watch what it's doing... and I've been on steep down grades and just let it do it's thing and have never had an issue with overheated brakes...


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Everyone pretty much explained the gear selection on the automatic transmission.
General rule of thumb in trucking, downshift two gears lower than the gear you climbed up it in.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Many posts have arrived since I started to compose this hours ago...
4 hours ago I started and only now think it fair and kind enough to be seen...
I've erased, edited...walked away and started this again and again and still it comes back to reading a bit nasty and that is _NOT_ my intent...
You *must* have confidence in you and your abilities and you do not...not one bit. That is how you come across, far from what you need to be to take on this enormous task.
My concern for you *is* huge that what you are facing is overwhelming you more than you admit.

Not be be unkind, but your truck_* is*_ more than capable of doing this job presented to it,....it is you who is not capable...truth 
As of right now, you are _not_ capable of going more than 30 miles from your barn and if anything unexpected happen you are going to lose it and freak...
You _can't_ do that when towing live animals...you _must_ have confidence in your abilities & your equipment ...respond instantly as things continually change when traveling towing..._you must think on your feet .
You can not plan for everything prior cause it just doesn't work that way...detours, road construction, bad storms, flats, breakdowns...things happen and you must cope and deal with it._

*Are you sure the road grade number you gave is accurate. That is steep..
*Did you release the drag on your trailer towing it empty?? Last time you used the trailer you had your horses aboard...
_*Did you reset your trailer brakes before driving around town empty_ otherwise you were dragging your brakes & tires nearly every time you stepped on the truck brake your trailer brakes engaged hard and you need to learn to stop riding the brakes or you will have issues, period.
It is very different to drive a truck & trailer than a small car and even a small car on grades up/down you can and will overheat your brakes if you abuse them.
*Stop with the continuous overthinking, please.
_*Get behind the wheel and drive ....learn to react appropriately._
It's fine to get information on other conditions and wanting to know, but in your case you fixate on horrors and make it worse than it needs to be, period..

So, in practicality....and so you can truly see what you mentioned...
This is a graph showing grades....I enlarged it so easier seen...
_Is the 15% really what you were towing up? Coming down?_








That above graph is about driveway grades but gives you something to visualize that applies to roads in smaller scale.
The longer the grade, even a minor slope will tax your power don't care what kind of engine it is you have...

Diesels pouring black smoke out the exhaust you see are laboring hard same as you...
Unless you are driving a true tractor -trailer you are driving a conversion of a gas engine or some hybrid developed to toss into a pickup truck, cause that is where nearly every small diesel has its origins and roots..

Facts and numbers I found them for gas, diesels, all brands and under load test.
There is a ton of information contained and the diesels did *not* do so fabulously in real test situation against like vehicles...some did better and some worse it seems.
You also do not test gas and diesel against each other but gas to gas and diesel to diesel is how it is really done.


2010 HD 16 Percent Hill Climb Test - PickupTrucks.com Special Reports


You can compare test findings, but the differences I saw were not so great overall that would convince me "have to have a diesel"...no.
Your truck is more than capable for the job you ask of it.


























If you did not see official warning signs roadside of extreme grades ahead, adjust brakes, and actual signs with grade markings & instructions on them....those grades _do_ exist and you do need to know what and how to drive them but you are freaking your brains overthinking and wanting the worst scenario to find you.
.
All of those signs are your information on what you face, how to approach it and how to safely get off the top once you reach the pinnacle..if you went up you have to get down and you think driving this is tough, wait till you do switchbacks on those mountain passes...you need your wits about you all the time and to drive with confidence or the emergency run-off is where you will join others who freaked. Then you got to get towed out...fair warning!

Back to your topic and shared information...
At this point you were so unnerved and upset with the incident of Pony arriving wasn't it... I think it is clouding your judgement. I do. You still have not moved past what you saw and that I believe is hurting you to move forward with confidence and competence.
If you can't drive local without fear and trepidation to do curves, heavy traffic, tight confines and just know your size and you fit...then this cross-country trip is not for you to drive.

I too think it is far better a idea for you to hire a chauffeur, licensed CDL driver who jockeys this kind of thing with livestock for people over-faced and easily over-whelmed at anything that goes the smallest bit off or wrong.
At this point are you capable of safely doing this trip with you behind the wheel? The answer from me is _no you are not.
I don't think you are going to reach the point of confidence and roll with it like you need to do to do the drive yourself. I'm sorry._
I agree...hire someone to get your horses to their new home, then fly that driver home or to their next destination and job contracting for their services.
Start your new life on a good note not one so stressed you are apt to have a stroke or heart-attack from anxiety and that happens more than people realize.

I wrote so much and removed it as it read so unkind, _truthful_ but unkind. Neither are my intent as you know knowing how I write.
Do I know you have a truck capable of doing this trip,_ *yes*_*!*
Do I think you as the driver are capable of driving this distance, over unknown road conditions and things occurring..._*No!*_
It will take you months of continual driving of truck and trailer to get to that point...maybe.
Yet I'm not sure you will ever get that confidence level in you and your abilities like you need to consider a undertaking of this size...that's honest and realistic.
You talk of wanting to do...but when it truly comes down to it I don't think you do.
I think you are fretting and trying to talk yourself into it and in essence are making it worse and its not going to happen.
When you are confident in your abilities,...
I could check out your rig, drive it around the block to familiarize myself with brakes and handling, come back and load up your horses and hit the road...honest.
And meet you in Washington in a few days time...
When you can write of and tell us you could do that and not have a coronary/stroke on the road....the we've got something to cheer over.
Till then...nope. Sorry, but get someone to drive the truck and you follow in your put-put you so love to buzz around town in.
Do not haul the horses with you at the wheel, just don't.
Do the local stuff and love it...leave the serious long-distance to a professional, please.
_I'm sorry._
🐴... _ jmo... _


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

horselovinguy said:


> Many posts have arrived since I started to compose this hours ago...
> 4 hours ago I started and only now think it fair and kind enough to be seen...
> I've erased, edited...walked away and started this again and again and still it comes back to reading a bit nasty and that is _NOT_ my intent...
> You *must* have confidence in you and your abilities and you do not...not one bit. That is how you come across, far from what you need to be to take on this enormous task.
> ...


 I too question AC's ability to handle a trip of this magnitude but, tried not to say it. My last trip to Colorado with three horses I was coming east We had three different tornados two on the south side of I-70 and the largest on the north.side. We had no place to go and no place to hide so I chose to go as fast as possible and split them. I could envision horses , trailer and truck getting caught. in the middle. Decisions sometime have to be made in a split second. You have to be confident in your truck and your driving and with the questions I hear ask I'm not hearing either.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

If I remember right they have about a year, two years before they make this move.
Ya'll making it sound like she's making this trip next week.
If I'm wrong, by all means correct me.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I have not comments on the driving but was just surprised at all the posts saying 15% was really steep. Is 15% really considered steep in the US? The streets I deal with every day are steeper than that (around 20%). In fact there are many streets between 15% and 20% in our city that people drive and tow things up everyday. They don't have steep grade warnings on them. My driveway would even be steeper than 15%. The steepest street in our city is 35%, and they did a relocation house up that on the back of a truck when I was a kid (about 8 years old).


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

COWCHICK77 said:


> If I remember right they have about a year, two years before they make this move.
> Ya'll making it sound like she's making this trip next week.
> If I'm wrong, by all means correct me.


That is very true COWCHICK...they _had_ time, quite a bit of it when all was originally spoken of.
Time has been steadily rolling forward. Think they may now be approaching less than a year till travel.
In that time AC has bought her own rig, a beautiful one with brand new trailer.
She's driven the truck around town.
She's towed the trailer a few times from her home through her neighborhood and parked it at her barn.
She's driven that around town, some.
To my knowledge she has taken truck, trailer and 2 horses 1x maybe 2x on a trailride about a hour from home, otherwise if she has done more loaded hauling I've missed it.
This trip is from central Texas to near the coast of Oregon she is planning on driving.
AC is acclimated to driving, think she said a Honda Civic or Accord daily....

Sorry, but at this point in her driving career of hauling her own around she is _*not *_ready and in my eyes _*not *_preparing herself very well for the upcoming grueling approx 37 hours {Austin, Texas - Eugene, Oregon} mapquest gives for driving a car _not_ hauling a loaded horse trailer.
She has many questions and that is fantastic to be knowledgeable, but she needs serious seat time and hauling those animals more than a hour from home in all kinds of weather cause if nothing else this country is experiencing some weird weather occurrences as of late.
My post may seen nasty and rude, it is _*not*_ meant as such but as honest in evaluating her abilities she not get in over her head and be caught...
There are few who could haul on high speed interstates that distance, that speed and feel totally at ease doing so...
I drove the I95 corridor often towing our trailer loaded, however it was _not _with live cargo. 
You need to keep your wits about you, make instant decisions on traffic and weather conditions and what you are comfortable driving in.
I drive my horse trailer all over the southeast, from interstates to dirt backroads....but not at more than 500 miles from home lately and when I travel often there is another driver who is well versed in horse trailering if I need a break.
I _*do*_ question her ability so she is safe as are her horses.
It sounds so easy, in reality it is not to travel somewhere in the 2,000 mile range.
It is grueling for her as_* sole driver.*_
{_Doing the I95 corridor is was just me as driver, often 1350 miles I did with one short overnight...long days of driving. for her many days more than I did}_
For her animals to stand hours of everyday on a trailer and what does she do the day they go, nope not getting on today....
Can she handle that? She's going to find out and you better believe she is going to be at the mercy of people she not know...and I truly hope she only meets nice people along her route.
But she needs seat time driving that rig at high highway speeds, in all weather, in all traffic otherwise she is going to be overwhelmed and that is dangerous for her, her animals and everyone else on the road with her,
She asks a ton of questions {fantastic}, does her research...but she has nearly nothing in practical application of doing it and that is why I say she is not currently capable...
She has nothing practical in experience to back her up when the oh crap moment arrives and at a distance traveled she is planning on it _is_ going to happen.
You can't take out your phone and google what do I do, you react by instinct and that comes from long hours of seat time...and she has none, nada, zip, a never done any of it or as I wrote I missed her, "Look what I did!!"...

_AC, I'm sorry you read this as its written._
I do have serious thoughts about how unprepared you are and no place does it seem you have taken steps to getting out and driving more than an hour.
You're now approaching winter-time and serious nasty weather...this is not the time to venture out on maiden voyages when roads are not stellar in conditions, weather changes in a minute and you have not much experience behind you to help you if it hits the fan.
I'm sorry, but you still have some panic-time when approaching a intersection with traffic in place and you need to turn into a "narrow" roadway...
I'm being brutally honest, but I think you do need to hear it...and make some serious efforts to get on the road and do some day trips where you drive 6 hours one-way, have a meal and drive it home cause that is what you face to get to your new home....for many days in a row no matter how fatigued or tired you _must _push on...you can not keep your horses on a trailer forever, nor at stopovers unless illness or injury has got one.
And, you need to be at your destination cause if not missing something you still need to ship a 3rd horse commercial carrier since you bought a 2 horse...that horse arrives whether you are their or not, so you have time deadlines, another stress you will feel.

I'm honest and realistic....by the time I do 1300 miles of interstate driving with my truck & trailer or by my car I'm whipped and tired... I would not want to face another 2 days of what I just went through tired and fatigued...
That is what my concern is...its fair and its honest when you've written what you have for several months.
My concern is great you arrive at your new home better than you left your last one...
_hugs and 😘 meant in the nicest way. I really _*do*_ care regardless of how this reads..._ _hlg. _
🐴...


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If you smell burning rubber or plastic, yes it's something to worry about. The fact that you say plastic makes me wonder if you don't have undiagnosed electrical or wiring issues. Regardless, I'd have my truck and trailer in for service to make sure it's just you riding the brakes and not another problem. 

I'm not going to say you can't do this trip. Not right now you can't but you've got a couple of years to get miles (sweaty blankets) on you and your capabilities. If you pick a destination that's an easy day's drive away and head out with your truck and trailer once a week, by the time you're ready to move, should be able to do it. 

Gonna ditto the "get out of your head" sentiment. There's wanting to be safe and able and then there's anxiety based need to control down to the last teensy bit of minutia. After having horses for more than a month, you have learned that the latter is just not possible. 

I don't know exactly how many miles I've put on by Dodge but let's call it 100,000, because for being 10 coming 11, I have pretty low miles on it, based on the average of 15,000/year. I HAVE NEVER HAD TO HAVE THE BRAKES/ROTORS REPLACED. At my last service visit I asked specifically to have the brakes checked and was told I have several thousand more miles to go before that will be necessary. I have 2 horse trailers, a 3 horse bumper pull and a 4 horse goose neck behemoth and I have a low boy flatbed trailer, gooseneck. I have hauled all 3 fully loaded and made several trips cross country with that truck and one of those trailers. Let that roll around in your mind for a few. 

You can read all you want about hauling and what to do when or if you have dicey situations. That's not going to teach you how to do it. You have to just get out and do it. The more you think it's going to be awful, the more likely it will be. 
You're not ready for steep hills yet, you're still having the vapors about driving around the block. Just like with horses repetition = desensitization. Pick a destination and go do the "Sunday drive" thing with your truck and trailer. Don't load it up, just haul empty and practice downshifting manually and learn how that feels and sounds. Practice parking, backing, turning in a big empty parking lot. When you can do that confidently, at more than 15 mph, then you'll be ready to go out on the road. Again, pick deserted roads so you won't have to deal with traffic, yet. 

I am also someone who learned to haul trailers, horses, equipment, later in life. I practiced and practiced and practiced until I could haul around an EVOC training course without sweating a shirt so bad I had to change. EVOC = Emergency Vehicle Operator Course. 

The ONE thing that taught me about hauling was to load up horses and head to a show. I made several trips from Tucson AZ to KY where US Nationals Sport Horse Championships were held, and then back home again at the end. I have hauled horses from Tucson up to Grand Junction CO when friends were moving, 7 round trips in all. I've crossed the Continental Divide with a fully loaded trailer, several times. When I first started doing that, I could go forward, period. I learned about backing and turning and doing steep grades down from Show Low, AZ in the White Mtns, at 6300 feet. 

Practice makes progress. Just keep doing it over and over and over until it becomes no big deal. If, at 6 months before the move you're still super anxious, then I'll ditto hiring a hauler and you fly. You CAN learn to do this, you just have to be willing to stop the negative, self defeating thinking and get out there and DO IT. 

BTW, if you've downshifted into a low enough gear, then your trailer won't be able to push you or out run you on hills. If you don't stop riding your brakes, then you're going to be one of those people who run out of brakes, or heat them up enough to catch fire, and we'll see your truck and trailer buried to the axles on one of those runaway truck ramps. I used to drive the Cajon Pass and see semis who hadn't bothered to check their brakes and downshift in those ramps. That's an expensive tow/winch out, not to mention the fines.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

A trip from Texas To the PNW will not be accomplished without going over the Continental Divide at some point. That means a long climb up then back down again. I’ve driven it a handful of times, in cars and when I moved the horses. My ears always popped at the big change in altitude. Maybe the new trucks and cars don’t let that happen but it is still something to be aware of in terms of how one uses their brakes.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

ksbowman said:


> Also if you don't know how to correctly setup your brake controls to have the trailer brakes come on at the correct time have someone who does know how to adjust your controller for you.


Yes! This is the thought I had yesterday. TBH, I left the trailer brake gain setting on the truck the way it was when I got it. I've tested by slamming on the trailer brakes on an empty straight street and it felt good to me, but what do I know? The trailer will be due to be services in the spring and I will ask them to set the gain correctly. I'll also be sure and ask them how much difference it will make when I load the horses and stuff.



lb27312 said:


> In tow haul mode these trucks automatically gear down.... if you tap the brakes more than once it will start downshifting... and some of them have an exhaust brake so you really don't have to do much but tap the brakes and it goes into a downshift mode and it will keep you at a certain speed and you DON'T have to hit your brakes again unless you apply the gas for a certain amount of time...


Is that the case with all trucks? Mine is a Ford. There's no tow haul mode to engage that I know of. You can change the settings to display towing info, but there isn't anywhere to change a mode. Or maybe I'm wrong and that's my problem.



horselovinguy said:


> If you did not see official warning signs roadside of extreme grades ahead, adjust brakes, and actual signs with grade markings & instructions on them


The hill I went down has a warning sign (steep grade; trucks use lower gear). This is the easiest of the three hills I mentioned. The other two don't have signs, but they are residential streets so maybe they don't get one.



ksbowman said:


> We had three different tornados two on the south side of I-70 and the largest on the north.side.


Yes, I'm definitely trying to figure out how to plan my time of going around extreme weather.



COWCHICK77 said:


> If I remember right they have about a year, two years before they make this move.
> Ya'll making it sound like she's making this trip next week.


Yes we have about two years. So I'm trying to slowly do more and more difficult things with the trailer, to build up to it. This hill was part of that. So now I know, if I see a hill like that, I don't have to worry if I can get up it or not. And yes, I am paranoid about hills because of what happened the first time I saw Pony hauled. We will start going on hour or multi-hour drives soonish.



horselovinguy said:


> To my knowledge she has taken truck, trailer and 2 horses 1x maybe 2x on a trailride about a hour from home, otherwise if she has done more loaded hauling I've missed it.


I've driven it around empty quite a bit, but yes two times hauling the horses 45 minutes to a trail ride.


Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> If you smell burning rubber or plastic, yes it's something to worry about. The fact that you say plastic makes me wonder if you don't have undiagnosed electrical or wiring issues. Regardless, I'd have my truck and trailer in for service to make sure it's just you riding the brakes and not another problem.


Great, I will bring this up with the trailer people when I get it services.


Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Just like with horses repetition = desensitization.


Yup, that's exactly what I'm need. I'm like my Teddy -- need to take things very slowly and get lots of rewards and very little punishment.



Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Practice parking, backing, turning in a big empty parking lot. When you can do that confidently, at more than 15 mph, then you'll be ready to go out on the road. Again, pick deserted roads so you won't have to deal with traffic, yet.


Well, I mean, I drive it around empty a bit. This week I drove it in rush hour traffic, merging on and off the highway. Also on narrow arterial roads during the beginning of rush hour. And I've driven on highways to get out to the trail place. I actually realized I like highways better because the lanes are wider and the curves smoother. But OMG when I brought it back from the barn on Sunday I was in heavy fast (65 mph) traffic when all the sudden I realized there was a baby stroller in the middle of my lane ahead! Fortunately not occupied, but it was like it had just fallen off someone's car (I mean, no one had hit it yet so it was just sitting there upright). I had to swerve around it. Luckily there was no one in the lane next to me (I do check my mirrors every few seconds so I knew). But afterwards I thought, would that have been the appropriate thing if the horses had been in there? I mean, this was a full-sized stroller. I don't think I could have safely just hit it.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> If, at 6 months before the move you're still super anxious, then I'll ditto hiring a hauler and you fly.


Sorry, I forgot this one. Yes, if I am still this anxious about hauling half a year before the move, I will just have someone else haul them. I'm hoping that by doing enough hauling between now and then, I'll get better at it. Right now, I drive the trailer for a few days at a time maybe once a month. Perhaps I should increase that. Or maybe I should just make my trips longer. My trainer, I mentioned in another thread, got her childhood pony back and told me that if I wanted someone to go on trail rides with, she will go with me. She doesn't have a trailer, so I'd have to haul both. So that would be good.

I added this post because it doesn't seem to me that you can edit your post to add another quote in it. Now, reading through HLG's posts, I have another I want to respond to, but I don't want to muck this up with

HLG, you're absolutely right about driving in different weather conditions. I have thought about this, like a couple of weeks ago when we had so much wind that it was pushing my car around on the highway. I thought, I should drive the trailer in this. But the trailer was at the barn and I would have had to go and get it. If I don't have it sitting at home (I do right now), then I don't drive it. But we have no severe weather in the forecast now. I hate to leave it sitting in the street in front of my house as I'm sure it annoys the neighbors. I don't know. Maybe I will, and then it will be ready for me to drive once we have worse weather.

But this is actually a fine time overall to work on driving it. We've had an unusually dry and warm winter thus far (highs in the 70s / 80s, lows in the 50s / 60s) and not a lot of rain. If it snows, then of course I won't drive it around. But when it rains again, then I should. And re-do my brake test.

Also thank you everyone for your detailed and thoughtful responses!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I glanced at all the posts but didn't really read them. It sounds like you are riding your brakes all the way down the hill. You want to downshift. You can do that with an automatic. The engine will sometimes sound like it's getting loud but that's the downshifting.


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## lb27312 (Aug 25, 2018)

@ACinATX - I'm not sure how old your truck is but it SHOULD have a tow haul mode if it has a towing package.... even my '04 had a tow/haul mode. It's a button you push at the end of your gear shift... it should have Tow/Haul written towards the end of the gear shift and a button at the end... if not then I'm not sure you have a towing package... it's a Super Duty F-250 correct? I just don't see why you wouldn't have Tow/Haul as I'm pretty sure every Super Duty I've been in has it... hmmmm someone else might know more...

adding pics… first is Tow/haul second is the exhaust brake button


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

All my farm pickups have been manual trannies, except for the last one. That one, 2016 Super Duty diesel, has a tow/haul option trans setting to go up and down hills when pulling a trailer. But all automatic trans should shift gears on their own as needed.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

If I were in your position I'd pay someone to give me 10 lessons. Like they haul a 30-40min route without a horse, with varying roads and hills etc. Then with the horse. Then me without a horse, them sitting next to me. Then with the horse etc. Practice parking, loading and unloading. I know you're doing this already but I'm quite impatient and probably would have either paid a professional transporter for their time or a very experienced friend etc. My first drive with the transporter she was telling me when to shift gears and everything and we practiced up and down steep hills. edit: the sound of the engine braking is really awful to me because I like riding smooth and quiet but she was like "this is what its designed for, don't ride the brakes" as well. *we are majority manual drive in this country its quite rare to find automatics so not sure how much that plays into this.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

When I first got a large van years ago I drove it everywhere even though its really irritating to park and quite terrifying in the beginning in the city - shopping, to the dentist, to the park, to my friends parking it 5 streets away -.- I don't know if you can park a trailer by your home but is possible to just go everywhere with it for a few weeks? It's hassle but the amount of experience you'd get out the way rather than making it a big event?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Can't discuss trailer driving, but when we got Trooper, he had to come from central Utah to southern Arizona. About 700 miles. We paid a company to do it since we didn't even have a trailer. It was just a small detour for a commercial operation hauling 3 other horses from California to the east coast. IIRC they had a 6 horse trailer. We talked a little to the driver. He was going to press on a few hours past us then stop somewhere in New Mexico. There was a place he knew that he liked because he could let the horses out and let them stretch and relax while he slept for a while. Going cross country, I'd go nuts with worrying about where to stop. A friend said he once used the county fairgrounds near us and it was "Okay but not ideal".

The continental divide doesn't mean steep. I cross it in New Mexico in a place where I need signs to tell me I'm doing it. However, there is a place on I-17 (Phoenix to Flagstaff) that I hate driving even in a car. Long grades of 6%, often with heavy traffic and semi trucks. Coming back from Utah this fall, I hit 110 mph on the downhill - and the semi in front of me was pulling away! There is another section that has both long grades AND frequent severe crosswinds. We went thru there a couple of winters ago and counted 11 wrecks - including 2 semis and a half-dozen travel trailers. One big travel trailer had flipped over and torn apart.

I hope to get a 3-horse trailer this spring and start driving the horses to the Santa Rita Mtns10 miles from me, then build up the the Chiricahua Mtns 100 miles to the east. I'd like to take Bandit north to Utah a couple years from now. But it seems to me - _and maybe others with experience can chime in_ - the scary part isn't as much "driving with a trailer" as it is knowing the roads and horse-friendly places to stop and oddities like where the cross winds can be vicious. Are there planning guides for horse owners? I don't know. Seems like someone would have put together a software program or something.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Kalraii said:


> When I first got a large van years ago I drove it everywhere even though its really irritating to park and quite terrifying in the beginning in the city - shopping, to the dentist, to the park, to my friends parking it 5 streets away -.- I don't know if you can park a trailer by your home but is possible to just go everywhere with it for a few weeks? It's hassle but the amount of experience you'd get out the way rather than making it a big event?


I agree with this. Dragging that trailer everywhere you go will make you comfortable. You'll get to the point where you'll drive your car like you drive your pickup and trailer..LOL.



bsms said:


> But it seems to me - _and maybe others with experience can chime in_ - the scary part isn't as much "driving with a trailer" as it is knowing the roads and horse-friendly places to stop and oddities like where the cross winds can be vicious. Are there planning guides for horse owners? I don't know. Seems like someone would have put together a software program or something.


When I was running a layover out of our place in Nevada, I advertised on a couple websites but this one is my favorite:





Horse Motels International. Horse motel & overnight stabling directory for the traveling equestrian. We find horse motels, horse hotels, overnight stabling, overnight boarding, horse vacations, ranches, bed and breakfasts, and hurricane shelter.


Horse Motels International. Horse motel & overnight stabling directory. We find horse motels, horse hotels, overnight stabling, overnight boarding, horse vacations, ranches, bed and breakfasts, winter layovers,and hurricane shelters.



www.horsemotel.com





Facilities are listed by state. If someone couldn't find a place or they were going to push past our place I'd get calls on places to stay that aren't listed which I was more than happy to help with.
Just yesterday I received a call from a former customer from Alberta, headed south for the winter, looking for an alternative spot to layover close to where we used to live. So even if you're not going to make a layover, you can call and ask for recommendations for where you think you might land for the night.

There used to be a paperback guide but I don't remember the name or if they even print anymore?

As far as routes go, I'm spoiled because my husband has trucked in all 48 states and really knows the west. He plans our routes based on days, traffic, weather, etc.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

AC, I hope you are not angry...but we, those of us who responded as we did are concerned greatly...
Even 2 years off unless you step up the use and dragging that trailer around in all kinds of weather {yes snow and ice} you will not have enough experience and if it should appear when you are hauling your nerves and trepidation is going to go through the roof...
Experience it now, a little at a time and you will do fine or much better knowing your destination is but a few minutes away not hours. on unfamiliar roads.
You're crossing the divide and all kinds of weather can happen at any time in that area. Fog and sleet, icing roads are not unheard of in summer on the divide so no matter the time of year, weather can get you so just be prepared cause you drove in it locally here gives you some peace of mind.

Yes, take your BO up on going further to ride...
You need seat time driving and with animals on board and although BO may not have a trailer, she knows how to drive a car for some moral support your daughter at this time can't give you.

So, many years ago when I was a teen _{I said years ago}_ my family went on summer vacation and we were someplace in Denver, Colorado area crossing the divide...
What I remember as my father drove car and camping trailer climbing that enormous grade was the car "vapor locking"...
My family was going to be vacationing at similar altitude and the car was running terribly.
My dad was a trucker by trade and knowledgeable about engines....but he had no tools he needed to use with him.
So, into the local car dealership we went, unhooked the trailer from car and it went into a service bay.
Our car was tuned for "flat" sea-level conditions from Long Island and we were now hundreds if not thousand plus feet higher in elevation...the car was starving for oxygen to make it run smoothly and have power.
A simple adjustment to the carburetor {told you it was years ago} but it allowed the car to run and behave as it should.
Moral of that story...
I don't know if you will need to prepare your truck for that elevation change or if the engine computers today do it automatically sensing the change.  IDK... but you need to ask your mechanic what to do, when and how when traveling.
Your truck needs a complete look-see about a month prior to your leave date to make sure any uh-ohs are taken care of before they become monster sized issues when towing and animals now involved.
Same as your trailer...needs a top to bottom all is serviced and checked since it will be time and exposure to elements that can create problems on/in any vehicle whether sitting idle or used.

_Thank-you for being the understanding person you are._
I'm passionate about keeping people safe and not getting in over their head because I shut my mouth or fingers in this case.
I _don't_ have all the answers but do have a wonderful resource in my knowledgeable husband who is that specially trained mechanic and a excellent driver of trailers and livestock whether the backyard nag or the $250,000 competition horse...they are all loved and special to someone and we all only want the best for our "buddies"....and safety for their owners. _ hlg.._
🐴...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Horse Motels is now a bookmarked site, @COWCHICK77 ! There were a couple of places in Benson AZ I didn't know about and I used to LIVE there - and its a 3 stoplight town!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Kalraii said:


> If I were in your position I'd pay someone to give me 10 lessons. Like they haul a 30-40min route without a horse, with varying roads and hills etc. Then with the horse. Then me without a horse, them sitting next to me.


We used to have a wonderful Cajun Humorist (he didn't want to be a comedian) in Louisiana named, Justin Wilson (Zhoo-Stahn Wilson). He told a story of a truck driver who was taking his driving test (with the driver license exam-in-atin' man) and his best friend Emil, asleep in the back of the truck. 

They went out for the driving portion of the test and they crested a big hill and at the bottom was a school bus full of children. He went to step on the brakes of the truck, "only dem truck, it ain't got no broke" and he's flying downhill and the driver's license examination man says, "What you gon' did? Hah?" and the truck driver says, "I'm gon' wake up Emil." "What you gon' did dat fur? Hah?" and the driver says, "Because Emil, he ain't never seed a bad wreck before again in his life.". 

I'm thinking the trainer better be Emil, who can sleep through anything.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

lb27312 said:


> @ACinATX - I'm not sure how old your truck is but it SHOULD have a tow haul mode if it has a towing package....


OK thank you for the picture, I really appreciate that. I'll go have a look.



Kalraii said:


> If I were in your position I'd pay someone to give me 10 lessons. Like they haul a 30-40min route without a horse, with varying roads and hills etc.


I couldn't find anyone who advertised this sort of lesson. Well, not true, I did find someone in San Antonio, but I think I tried to contact her and couldn't. I thought about signing up for the first part of a CDL course, just to have something else.



bsms said:


> I cross it in New Mexico in a place where I need signs to tell me I'm doing it. However, there is a place on I-17 (Phoenix to Flagstaff) that I hate driving even in a car. Long grades of 6%, often with heavy traffic and semi trucks.


When I'm absolutely in "go" mode, I hope to get everyone's input on a proposed route. This sort of info (steep grade, heavy traffic, lots of semis) is awesome.



horselovinguy said:


> I don't know if you will need to prepare your truck for that elevation change or if the engine computers today do it automatically sensing the change.  IDK... but you need to ask your mechanic what to do, when and how when traveling.
> Your truck needs a complete look-see about a month prior to your leave date to make sure any uh-ohs are taken care of before they become monster sized issues when towing and animals now involved.
> Same as your trailer...needs a top to bottom all is serviced and checked since it will be time and exposure to elements that can create problems on/in any vehicle whether sitting idle or used.


Ha, you better believe I'm going to do that LOL.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

lb27312 said:


> adding pics… first is Tow/haul second is the exhaust brake button


Well, holy moley, I looked, and there it was.    (I am rolling my eyes at myself). I read the whole manual through and don't remember seeing that (it was a super long one, so maybe I just forgot).

Wow. See, this is one reason I love HF so much -- you guys know stuff and share! And I'm glad I posted my newbie problems with hills, because I think I may have THE answer!

Thank you thank you thank you!


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## QueenofFrance08 (May 16, 2017)

Glad you found the tow/haul. Now as the wife of a mechanic..... PLEASE NEVER HAUL ANYTHING EVEN AN EMPTY TRAILER WITHOUT THAT BUTTON CLICKED ON!


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

ACinATX said:


> I couldn't find anyone who advertised this sort of lesson. Well, not true, I did find someone in San Antonio, but I think I tried to contact her and couldn't. I thought about signing up for the first part of a CDL course, just to have something else.


Wanted to make it clear none of the transporters advertised lessons. I messaged about 5 different horse transport companies and even put an ad out asking for experienced drivers to contact me (obviously I was paying). Including the guy that brought Katie over from Ireland. Only one of the transporter ladies got in touch immediately saying she was more than happy to sit with me while I drive. Hopefully you find someone it was so nice having her with me I wish you to have the same security


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

QueenofFrance08 said:


> Glad you found the tow/haul. Now as the wife of a mechanic..... PLEASE NEVER HAUL ANYTHING EVEN AN EMPTY TRAILER WITHOUT THAT BUTTON CLICKED ON!


My hubby is sleeping so can't ask him....

Simply put.... *WHY?*
_PLEASE NEVER HAUL ANYTHING EVEN AN EMPTY TRAILER WITHOUT THAT BUTTON CLICKED ON!

*What does that button do?*

My truck is older and a manual transmission and does *not *have that button...

I think informing others would be great if you could expand on what that Tow/Haul button do???
Thanks._
🐴...


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

A tow haul button changes shift timing and mine on my Dodge keeps it from going into overdrive. It also changes the torque convertor lockup and lets the motor help hold the truck back on steep down grades. I use mine in hilly country and mountains but, on relatively flat terrain I use the overdrive option both on the horse trailer and our 5th wheel trailer.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I've been doing more research, shockingly. And this quote summarizes what I have found so far:

"Tow/haul changes the shift points to stop gear hunting. It also provides engine braking when you apply the brakes. It will downshift and keep the torgue converter locked longer to apply the braking effect. Helps you slow down and save your brakes. "

So yeah I definitely should have been using this. I'm going to try that downhill again with the T/H engaged and see if anything changes.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Here's a link to an article about the tow/haul button and how it works and when to use it. Explains things MUCH better than I ever could. I know I notice it if I take off and haven't pushed it and I'm hauling a heavy load or even my 4 horse, it's really heavy. It has saved my bacon in town. I've never felt so invisible as I do when I have that big orange truck hooked up to a fully loaded horse trailer, especially the 4 horse. People are absolute morons. A Smart Car is the worst offender, they swoop in front of you and slam on the brakes. I went and got a big push bar/cattle grill for the front of my truck because of idiots. When they do that and you have to lock up your brakes, that tow haul already has you in a lower gear, so more stopping from the engine. Once you engage those brakes and have to 'take evasive action' to keep from killing someone, it really helps to keep your vehicle stable. Not necessary on a manual trannie since you have to use the clutch to shift. I wish my truck was a manual and had manually locking hubs, I felt a lot more secure back then. Siiiigh.....I know, I know. Quit whining.

Tow/Haul Function


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

That manual tranny has saved me a few times...
I had a green light and was doing the speed limit when a "idiot" came across a entire intersection in front of me and other vehicles crossing.
Other cars darted in my lane, never realizing how close I was nor that I had the enormous trailer on my tail...
Talk about slam into downshifting.... from 5th to 4, 3, 2, & 1 within about 150 feet..
I stopped about 6" from the drivers door of that idiot...._I nearly killed him._
What was so important..._Starbucks_ was across the street and he couldn't wait...so he nearly died.🤬

My hands and feet were very busy, thankfully I learned how to shift by sound...only needed the first downshift with the clutch, after that stand on the brakes letting them work hard and pray.
My son sat next to me in stunned silence...
He flew out of the truck to check the cars driver when we stopped rocking from the hard stop....
I was so glad to have that large truck, excellent trailer brakes and was able to maintain control, _just barely._
If that not convince why horse people adamantly say be over-trucked...
If I had a smaller truck or not the right equipment the trailer would of pushed me and I would of killed someone...never want to live with that on my hands, conscience either.
I actually cried that day sitting behind the wheel...in anger, relief and sheer fright.

I didn't realize that today's trucks now do that which I worked so hard to complete to save that idiots bacon from smushed.
Sometimes all that computer stuff_ is_ a plus.. 
🐴...


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## ferricyanide (Jan 14, 2020)

Glad you found the button, i love using tow haul. I got my truck and trailer in 2020 and i haven't had any of your up or downhill problems. My main complaint is traffic and other cars. Driving a car trailer 5 hours to a race for the bf and his group, was pretty good practice for me. 

If you need a 3-3.5 hour haul practice/trail ride in the future. There is the dinosaur park and trace trails in this direction, and we could meet up 😂


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

ferricyanide said:


> There is the dinosaur park and trace trails in this direction, and we could meet up 😂


Can you ride at the dinosaur park? I've never actually been out there, although I've been nearby (route to parents' home took us through Mineral Wells and then on north). Oh, geez. I'm just remembering that hill that's just south of Mineral Wells. Yikes. That would be a good test. Yikes, I'm so glad I was told about the T/H mode!

I have been wanting to do this cattle sorting clinic out in Bandera for years. One thing after another, it hasn't happened, but that's supposed to be about a 2.5 hour drive mostly on the interstate, which would also be a good experience.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

ACinATX said:


> but that's supposed to be about a 2.5 hour drive mostly on the interstate, which would also be a good experience.


Just make sure that when you need a rest stop or food or drink, get off at a truck stop. Several reasons for that. 

#1 They have HUGE parking spots for those big rigs, 

#2 They have HUGE areas for those big rigs to turn around in 

#3 Those truck drivers can put a truck and trailer in one slot on your toaster if you ask 'em to. 

They'll laugh and give you fits while they fix your mess, but they'll do it, be happy to do it and probably give you a bunch of pointers while they do it. Truck stops are your FRIEND when you're hauling.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

ACinATX said:


> When I'm absolutely in "go" mode, I hope to get everyone's input on a proposed route. This sort of info (steep grade, heavy traffic, lots of semis) is awesome.


Avoid I17 from Phoenix to Flagstaff if you possibly can. It is very steep and even as used to hauling as I am, making 7 round trips from Tucson to Grand Junction took me both up and down that freeway, and I had the heebee jeebees on that wretched road almost as bad as having to drive the Cajon Pass with a truck and trailer. 

After my last trip to Grand Dysfunction, I headed across CO to KS to OK and did that whole scenic ski area super steep pass thing and OF COURSE IT DID, it started snowing just before I hit the top. Yeee HAH! I was actually glad I had a full load going through there, kept me slow on the way up and slow and mindful on the way back down. That was one H*** of a trip and not one I need to do again. I've done some long hauls but going from Tucson in the day, arriving in GJ in the dark, finding my way to the pastures, getting horses out and then falling asleep for about 5 hours and making the return, rinse and repeat 7 times. I was SO dead tired by the time I got to OK, all I wanted to do was sleep for a week. That trip from GJ to Stillwater was 886 miles. I normally try not to do more than 500 miles in one day. I was so sick of CO and mountains that I drove straight through. UGH! Tucson to Grand Junction was a piece of cake compared to that drive. Very scenic. Gotta say, I LOVED Moab, UT but that probably won't be on your route.


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## ferricyanide (Jan 14, 2020)

ACinATX said:


> Can you ride at the dinosaur park?


I was told that you could and the website seems to indicate you can. I haven't been yet.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Alright, I tried the T/H mode today. Wow! Overall I love it. 

The first thing I ever towed with the truck was a small trailer from U-Haul. You would not even know you were towing anything with that behind you, because the truck was just so much more powerful. However, towing the empty trailer (just shy of 4k pounds), I felt it. Which maybe isn't a bad thing -- it's a reminder to me. But when I activated T/H mode, it was like I was towing that tiny trailer again -- couldn't tell I was towing anything, except on the hills, and even those were better. It stops smoother, too!

I don't know how exactly it does these things, but I could tell that the truck was staying in lower gears for longer. And the RPMs overall were higher. Like it's normally around 1,000 but now it was around 1,500. Also, when I had to gun it today to merge onto the highway (jerk in the lane I was trying to merge into actually sped up once I put on my turn signal), it got up to about 6,000 RPMs. And it DID gun it and I did accelerate. But it stayed there even after I was done accelerating. I didn't like that, so I turned off the T/H, took my foot off the gas, then after the RPMs went down I put the T/H back on. However, while people complained online that the T/H mode negatively affected MPGs, I didn't find that to be the case. I got 11.5, as opposed to 11.8 without T/H, but that also included a couple of hills and gunning it to get onto the highway.

I did notice the trailer wobbling more, which really freaked me out, but the roads were a little slick, and after I got to the barn I realized it was decently windy, so it was probably just the wind pushing it around. I definitely need to drive it in adverse weather!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

A further update. I've been reading more about this, and what I'm reading says that gas engines need to run at higher RPMs to get the same amount of torque that diesels can get at lower RPMs. And that's normal, and that's the way the engine wants to run, and it's not going to hurt the engine. I think part of it was the engine was screaming at me going up the hill and I thought it meant the truck was overwhelmed. Apparently it just meant the truck was in its element.

But having said that, tow/haul mode is definitely helping me out a LOT!


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

"I'm planning on hauling them across the Rockies " The good news for you is that the steepest grades in the country are mostly in the East. (https://trucksontriangles.com/steep-grades/) As Walkinthewalk says, crossing the Rockies means you will have some very long climbs and descents, but most of them are closer to 6% than 16%. 

I've driven between Minnesota and Washington State almost every year for the last 45 years. I've seen more than one motorhome on fire near the top of a pass. But the greater danger on those hauls is the combination of curves, mountain winds, and semi-trailers, and the golleywobbles that can result.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thanks! I've actually ordered a book that's supposed to specify grade, curviness, and general drivability for trailers, that is supposed to cover all of the Western US. That should help me plan my route. As of now, it seems like the steepest grade on my currently planned route is 4%, which is really good.


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