# Who ropes then chokes while yanking on the rope with undersaddle training?



## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

Who ropes then chokes while yanking on the rope for starting horses undersaddle?

Hello All,
(Happy holiday. 12-2010)

I am a retired horse trainer and was wondering who else uses the ropem and chokem down method for starting a horse undersaddle?
*(Note the horse in these photos already was trained to lunge; walk trot and canter and whoa on verbal command. Was it necessary to choke and yank?)

The question is simple. How many trainers practice their roping on boarder's horses that are in to be started under saddle?

How many trainers practice roping, choke down while yanking the horse off its front end without verbal commands?
*(Note; the horse would already for saddle training, lunges and responds to verbal commands.)

When is the "Ropem and Chokem", rope and choke down, method use correctly?
Injuries; rope burns, trama, fear, throat latch, nose band, both front legs shin splint fractures, both hind hock knee knotts and two lacerations on right front leg hiden under shin split boots...whip lash?

What is necessary and what is not? 
The Jeffery's method does NOT use and a loose rope; it is knotted as to not choke the horse. The Jeffery methode rope is NOT tight and does NOT choke the horse. What it does is puts pressure on the oposite side of the horses neck.

I am a retired horse trainer and have noticed and increase in the amount of horses coughing just before annual rodeo roping time. 

The practicing roping a horse causes whin pipe damage; fine scarring and will cause damage to the endurance of a horse. Goats and cows and dogs are not the same!

Does your horse cough without a cold? If so someone could have been practicing their roping on your horse. You may and may not see scar tissue with a scope. No illness is a tail tell sign.

If a horse is trained with a heavy hand, it will only respond to a heavy hand.

Who else does this, Choking then yanking method?
What else is it called? Choking down.
Is it ethical? I would never use it.
I feel that choking or yanking has nothing to do
with the starting a horse under saddle.

I know the rodeo or ropers use the Choke Down method
but who else uses this technique 
and please explane how it is correctly used. 
And what for and under what level of training.

If you know or have seen this type of training,
link it here.
Thanks
Retire horse trainer.
Rope'm and Choke'm training techniques.
brutality abuse cruelty or legitimate training and teaching techniques.
Modern day training vs old school training.
Any and all replies welcome; need both good and bad opinions on liability.


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## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

Um. What?


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## whiskeynoo (Mar 17, 2010)

personally i think that the way your describing seems all for show, and personally i don't like it. I've never tried it myself and i don't think i ever will, i prefer to gain the horses trust when it comes to breaking, and working to the horses temperament. I'm no expert at it though.
The "rope-em and choke-em" method to me seems brutal and dangerous for both person and the horse. could it be possible for the horse to hang itself? 
As for the horse described in the pictures what is the point in the method if it already lunges and saddles and knows verbal commands?


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

*Ropem and chokem training methods.*

Thanks for your post; you are right on! I'm glad someone else doesn't like it too! Taking surveys. Were you aware of this training technique before this post?



whiskeynoo said:


> personally i think that the way your describing seems all for show, and personally i don't like it. I've never tried it myself and i don't think i ever will, i prefer to gain the horses trust when it comes to breaking, and working to the horses temperament. I'm no expert at it though.
> The "rope-em and choke-em" method to me seems brutal and dangerous for both person and the horse. could it be possible for the horse to hang itself?
> As for the horse described in the pictures what is the point in the method if it already lunges and saddles and knows verbal commands?


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

*Surveying training abuse; Ropem and Chokem*

Horse Abuse and Neglect in North America: Fact and Fiction
read this on horse training abuse.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Why join a forum with the sole intent of starting threads that are going to be controversial? There is no evidence in your pictures of any harm being done to the horse. The old saying "A picture tells a thousand words" is simply not applicable in this day and age. 

Just because you don't agree with a training method doesn't automatically mean it is wrong. Posting numerous threads about it tends to mean you are narrow minded though.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Hmm. I am thinking - troll.


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## DieselPony (Jul 26, 2010)

I've seen it used, with great results. Its just another technique that depends on the hands behind it.

The horse in case was violent. I also knew and helped halter break and did ground work with this mare as a weanling and a yearling, I knew how drastic of change she went through after being with a very rough trainer. You couldn't halter her, get near her, look at her, she would rear, strike, try and bite, you name it she would try and do it. We were running out of options. 

She was roped into the round pen and this pulling around method was used. Several days of this and you could rope her, and nicely lead her into the round pen to work with her. When the trainer could get close enough the rope was knotted to not pull tight.

We got her back to being safely halter broke and she was turned out on pasture to just chill for awhile. Occasionally I would go out and catch her and give her some loving and she would be the first in line to be caught. She will be going back into full time training this spring.

Its not something I'd choose to do first, but if you have a horse you have to resort to other methods, you need is someone competent on the other of the rope, who has done it before, no matter which different or potentially controversial method it is.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I agree with MLS. The OP is a troll. They have started more than one thread on the same topic trying to get people upset.


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## delynn (Nov 2, 2010)

*Ropem and chokem training survey*

This is the point; the horse in the photos was halter broke, lunged on verbal command but the trainer's son had a hot temper and was in my opinion was brutalizing the horse he was not hire to train. This horse was cantering or trotting off then yanked off his front end without verbal command. The horse was already trained for lunging and the unhired handler had been using standard body language to set the horse up to be roped the choked while yanking the horse off it's front end.
THIS HORSE DIDN'T NEED THIS TYPE OF TREATMENT AND BECAME UNHANDLEABLE! These are controversial issues and a public survey. Thanks for your input whether
pro or con.
Try supporting or being accountable for ther actions! 
I welcome you comments; as they are needed for this social study.
I am a retired horse trainer.
As summery will follow in one year.
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DieselPony said:


> I've seen it used, with great results. Its just another technique that depends on the hands behind it.
> 
> The horse in case was violent. I also knew and helped halter break and did ground work with this mare as a weanling and a yearling, I knew how drastic of change she went through after being with a very rough trainer. You couldn't halter her, get near her, look at her, she would rear, strike, try and bite, you name it she would try and do it. We were running out of options.
> 
> ...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

delynn said:


> I welcome you comments; as they are needed for this social study.
> I am a retired horse trainer.
> As summery will follow in one year.


You are a retired horse trainer? What discipline did you train? Where did your student horses end up? What successes did they achieve? Where were you based?

If you were a trainer, surely you would have had the know-how to go and look at the boarding facilities _before_ moving your horse to the farm?

If you were a trainer, surely this young lad that is so terribly abusing the poor ponehs would be more than happy for you to step in and tell him what he is doing wrong.

Posting pictures on this forum of others, without their permission, for critique purposes, is against the terms of use. Grow up, and realise that your way is not the only way.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I've roped several horses and not hurt them. As far as the injuries you claim to be from roping and jerking the horse off it's feet I call BS. A person on the ground could not jerk a horse off its feet. I would be hard pressed to jerk a horse off its feet using another good saddle horse. I think you are at best exagerating and at worst outright lying.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Just wanted to note some things before this gets out of hand. 

The methods used are controversial for sure, obviously you stand on the side of the fence that says this method is abusive and cruel. However when posting it's important to not come of hysterical and biased. Especially if you doing some sort of survey like you say. 

For this to be done properly, you have to be unbiased and back up your claims. For example I know many people who have roped horses without injuring them in anyway (internally or externally) and I have been around the rodeo scene long enough to know that plenty of ropers/'rodeo people' do not use this method. 

*To keep this thread informative and educational, please be open to both sides. One way is not the right way for everyone.* Keep in mind threads like this are sure to get heated opinion and if you want to get the information out there, you need to present the information in a factual and educational way.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I think you are just posting threads just to get people arguing.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I had to rope a filly last year...she would not be caught, period. I could round pen her til she was dripping wet, she would come up, allow me to rub her all over, but as soon as I had a rope or halter near her, she would take off again; and she wasn't nice about it...she would give me both barrels every single time...so it was dangerous as well as frustrating. I finally got tired of that, and decided to get a rope on her, and let her figure it out for herself that she wasn't going to get away so easily every time. Sure she faught it, but she didn't hurt herself, nor did she get dropped to the ground...the only thing she was "forced" to do was face up to me, and allow me to pet her, and rub her with the lead, and halter; I would then send her to the end of the line and 'round pen' her some more. After getting her to face up and allow me to rub her all over with my tools I took the rope off, and went back to normal round penning, and the change in her behavior about being 'caught' was much better...she would allow me to rub her with the tools, and eventually I haltered her several times without her darting off in the other direction and kicking her heels at me. That was the only time I ever had to 'rope' her...she had been so used to giving everyone "the finger" over being caught, but I guess I gave it back to her by roping her and making her figure out what I wanted. 

Now is this a technique I prefer to use? No, not at all...I prefer getting a horse to work, and letting him figure out what I want without roping and 'forcing' him to hitch up to me. But when it's taking hours, and days for the horse to "get it"? That could mean a horse gets injured, and you have no way to treat him because you can't catch him.


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