# Bits are painful!



## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

I personally don't think bits are abusive. But also, that being said. ANy bit in the wrong hands, could be abusive.
But so could hackamores, sidepulls, and bosels. All depends who's using them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ropinbiker (Aug 3, 2012)

Bits are not bad and are a tool used to help us communicate with the horse in a "language" we both understand......heck, in the wrong hands a halter can be "abusive".


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Riding a horse is painful. A saddle is painful. Heck, a halter is painful. My point is that yes everything has the opportunity to be uncomfortable and painful if used incorrectly. Bits aren't bad, the riders hands are. I've ridden some horses who like bits and some who don't. For instance, if bits were hurting my gelding then would he grab his bit with his mouth when I present it to him, seriously, I've never had to get him to open his mouth he just ducks his head into the bridle and starts munching on his bit! 

If it was painful I highly doubt that he would do this. 

IMO the people who make these videos and who present the topic in such a way are often extreme in their thinking. They will see one video or picture of a bit being used in a negative way and think that all bits are bad. I ride my horses in bits AND in halters/bitless and either way I don't have a problem. My horses are not in pain when being ridden, they aren't uncomfortable because I've seen that it's properly fitting and adjust when needed. To me that's being a responsible rider: making sure that your mount is comfortable and pain free. 

My personal opinion has always been that if you think that a bit is bad then you better take a long hard look at your hands. That's how I was taught and I've stuck to that. Anytime I've had a horse act weird in a bit (pending that he liked bits/never had a problem before) the first thing I did was look at my hands and be sure that I was not interfering or doing anything wrong. If I was okay then I checked the fit. 9 times out of 10 doing these two things fixed the problem and the horse never had a problem nor a medical condition due to using a bit.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

What rideordie said. Anything in any situation could be cruel, painful etc...or it could be a safe effective tool. All depends on the user


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'd call it a stupid and dishonest video meant to deceive people into believing bits are cruel. They are not. One might as well say a leash is cruel to a dog because some idiot can jerk on the leash hard enough to break a dog's neck, or that belts are cruel to humans because someone could beat another person with a belt.

It is flatly dishonest to pretend bits work that way...and I write that as someone who spent his first 3 years trying to be kind by riding bitless. It wasn't kind. If anything, it was harmful to my horses - they WANTED the communication a bit can provide. I'd love for the bitless crowd to explain to me why my horse and millions of others will stand quietly and calmly with a bit in their mouth - even the EXTRA CRUEL curb bits, tormenting the horses below:








​ 








If you couldn't tell, I get ****ed at the dishonest people pushing this nonsense, in part because I'm ****ed at myself for having believed them when I was a newbie to riding horses!   :evil:​


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

This is going to be a long post and I apologize in advance. It will be full of personal experience and opinion and no scientific fact.

When I got my horse I borrowed some tack from a friend to see if he was trained to ride. As I approached him with the bridle equipped with snaffle bit he became anxious. He pawed the ground and lifted his head out of reach. He was extraordinarily unhappy. My mom was helping me at the time since he lives on her property. She only ever rode horses in mechanical hackamores the last time she had horses. She thought bits were cruel. Couple her beliefs with my horses reaction and I started to think that maybe there was something to that. I knew my horse had some sore teeth so we decided to try a mechanical hack. I approached the horse and he calmly accepted the hackamore. So ok, this would be what we were going to use.

And we used it for nearly a year, he rode ok in it (even put it on by himself lol) but he is a stubborn horse and I had a hard time giving him subtle cues as well as *making* him listen when he was having a bad day. My mechanical hackamore had 8" shanks. So my understanding is that they amplified my force by 8x. I am not a strong person. I'm fat, short and have very little upper body muscle. I welcomed the extra 8x force. Because let me tell you, if that horse did not want to turn there wasn't a darn thing I could do short of applying EVERY OUNCE OF STRENGTH I POSSESSED on the reins. Now he had good days and bad days but the bad days were more like horse wrestling than horse riding. So I knew I wanted to give a snaffle bit another shot. Afterall, that's what all the people on horse forum swear by. 

I bought a 5 3/4" loose ring snaffle bit from a tack swap for $5. I have a brand new horse. He holds his head still and does not toss it. I can give subtle cues and he responds. If he is having a bad day and being stubborn I can calmly direct rein him to turn in the direction I want and he gives instantly to the bit. I can use a minimal amount of strength. 

It didn't take me long to figure out that for now our best bet is to stick with the snaffle. He seems happier, possibly because we are able to communicate more easily and we are no longer fighting during our rides. If he pitches a fit about something I am easily able to control the situation and turn it around. Maybe it has made him more confident in me as a leader? Maybe he's happy to not have 8x my force pulling on his nose. I don't know, but I'll take what I can get and I truly believe that calm, quiet communication is certainly less cruel than wrestling and frustration. And that goes for any type of bit, hackamore or bitless bridle. There will always be different solutions for different horses. A style of head gear is not inherently bad or good.

Here is my old man on Christmas showing off his bit (our second ride with it).


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

I have listened to people who HATE Tom Thumbs and call them abusive. My mare fights me in a snaffle. she took off once and I tried everything from turning her head to yanking and sawing. All she got was a bloody mouth and I was unable to walk for a week (turned sharply after running a quarter of a mile looking behind her and i fell). I tried a gentle curb and she would ride with her face looking up. I ride her in a Tom Thumb and she is light, willing and relaxed. I can now ride with a lose rein as apposed to on her mouth. Thanks to that bit I can school her in a snaffle with little complaint, and even a bittless, though she tosses her head and will lope in place with it if she wants to go. She is a solid trail horse but she has her quarks (That being barn sour every now and then).


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

We make horses do what we want by applying pressure, whether it's with the legs, a bit, or a bitless bridle. If you don't like the idea of applying pressure to a horse then you can't ride, period.


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## Trinity Ridge (Nov 27, 2013)

i dont care for snaffle bits.... i ride gaited horses. a gaited horse has to ride into the bit. this video shows why i dont think a snaffle is good for this type of bit.
a curb bit is much easier on a gait horses mouth. there is nothing cruel about a curb.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

A bit cannot be well, harmful on purpose. (most anyways.) 
In some ways it is like saying that bits hurt horses like guns kill people.
But the matter of truth is, people kill people.
In other words, it depends on what kind of hands you have. If you have hard hands, any bit you use, even the most softest its will be hard. If you have soft hands, then even the most harmful-causing bits will be soft. usually.

But anything can be painful or wrong in the wrong hands. 
Guns kill people.
Spoons make people fat.
Pencils misspell words.
And bits hurt horses.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Trinity Ridge said:


> i dont care for snaffle bits.... i ride gaited horses. a gaited horse has to ride into the bit. this video shows why i dont think a snaffle is good for this type of bit.
> a curb bit is much easier on a gait horses mouth. there is nothing cruel about a curb.


A curb bit has more pre-signal, as the chain tightens under the jaw, and is capable of applying a lot more pressure. Most of the gaited horses I have seen learn to come off of that pressure and stay just behind the place where it engages to the point of pain. the rider is more able to set a place for the horse to "ride into" because the bit is more powerful. However, a horse can be trained to respond similarly to a snaffle, it just takes a very good sense of timing and release on the part of the rider.
Also, gaited horses are hardly ever asked to do any lateral movements, where a snaffle is the best bit around for that.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Trinity Ridge said:


> i dont care for snaffle bits.... i ride gaited horses. a gaited horse has to ride into the bit. this video shows why i dont think a snaffle is good for this type of bit.
> a curb bit is much easier on a gait horses mouth. there is nothing cruel about a curb.



While I'm not against bits and not against curb bits, I do see the merit in bitless options. Why would a gaited horse not be able to be ridden bitless?
We have a gaited horse at our rescue who's teeth are a wreck and her mouth is very painful, she rides and gaits much better bitless. So I'm not sure why a gaited horse can't be ridden without a bit?


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## Trinity Ridge (Nov 27, 2013)

there will always be example and experiances to prove both sides. one horse that has a shipwrecked mouth is an exception, not a rule. as a rule, gaited horses ride into the bit. most use the bit as a balancing tool. do they need it at all times, no b/c many can gait through the field, w/o human interferance, but you add a rider to the equation and a multitude of other variables and the bit is a strong aid to helping a horse gait and making the gait better, and smoother. 

the video shows how a snaffle works, a gaited horse will have continual pressure on its mouth while its in a rack or other gaits, a snaffle and its design is not something you want continual pressure on the horses bars and palate. not to mention the possiblity of the tounge and lip tissue. thats why im more in favor of a curb where pressure is used for gaited horses. 

no doubt most if not all gaited breeds can go in a snaffle, ive used them before, a good rider can make a horse do anything. but that doesnt make it the best tool for the job. the snaffle may be a good tool for some and thier disicipline. but i dont care for them.............i rode TWHs and now i ride big motor speed racking horses.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm going to say riding gated horses in a curb bit really isn't a "rule". I took a gaited horse from only knowing right, left, and foreward (not always in a gait) to having 3 comfortable gaits, a good stop and and easy neck reining. She wasn't broken until 10 years old (she was pulled from Camelot). I can definitely ride her in rope halter. The likely hood of her breaking increases but is easily felt and usually I can pick her back up and correct it.<br />
<font size="1"><i>Posted via Mobile Device</i></font>


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes and collars on dogs is cruel, and rugging horses is cruel, and keeping cats inside is cruel.
Saddles are cruel they can cause horrific back injuries for a horse... all nosebands are cruel, the horse's nose has a lot of nerves, in fact all bridles in general are cruel including bitless, they hit pressure points and 'force' a horse to do what it doesn't want to.......

Anything is cruel in the wrong hands. I have no interest in watching sensationalist, PETA style videos!


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

Here is a harsh and cruel bit regardless who's hands it was in. It was phased out by the next century. 










4th Century Greecian bit.


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

Absolutely bits are cruel!! Just like guns kill people!!! Of course it is the person using the tool to make it so.


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

I knew a gun once....I knew it well. Shot it several times, But it never killed a darn thing.


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## TheSnowyStorm (May 2, 2013)

Pretty sure this has been scientifically proven. I've gone bit-less. Everyone thinks you don't get enough control but my boy and I have proven that he listens better without a bit. 

Most horses (I'm pretty sure) have trained with 'pressure and release'. I think it is a much better solution than bits. That's my opinion and it makes sense that bits would cause pain. 

Go buy a new bit and stick it in your mouth and have people pull on the reins....


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

And to some horses, bit less is cruel. I had one that would not MOVE in a bit less bridle he was so afraid of it.

This is all so silly….really. As has been said-anything can be cruel. Shoot, there are horses who don't like to be groomed. Next thing you know some animal rights person will post a video of a squirmy ticklish horse being groomed and say a curry is cruel. It all depends on the horse, person involved and their observation of that individual horses reaction to things, whether it is the brush on their flanks, bit in their mouth, saddle on their back…….Pay attention to your animal it its reactions.


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## TheSnowyStorm (May 2, 2013)

The actual subject is actually bits being painful. It is painful for them, therefore having bits, a horse suffers the pain. I can't see bit less bridles being cruel, they aren't hurting anyone, a horse has to learn that it won't hurt them. 

Does that horse wear halters? 
If so, why isn't he scared of them? Technically bit less bridles and halters are the same.


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

amberly said:


> A bit cannot be well, harmful on purpose. (most anyways.)
> In some ways it is like saying that bits hurt horses like guns kill people.
> But the matter of truth is, people kill people.
> In other words, it depends on what kind of hands you have. If you have hard hands, any bit you use, even the most softest its will be hard. If you have soft hands, then even the most harmful-causing bits will be soft. usually.
> ...



While I agree with this and the rest of you who say that it's a rider who hurts the horse, and not the tack, I would like to point out, that certain tack is much more prone to hurting a horse than others. 

Yeah, guns don't kill people. People do. Guns can't fire by themselves, and that's a fact. However, this doesn't mean you should hand a gun to a kid who doesn't understand how the gun works or how to be safe with it. It is very easy to kill people with a gun, even unintentionally, so caution must be exercised when using and handling one, so only those who have been properly taught and are of sound mind should be able to shoot one.

It's kind of an extreme analogy, but bits work the same way. I will try to choose the tack and bit that is most comfortable for my horse and least likely to cause her discomfort or pain, so I reduce the risk of unintentionally hurting her. A horse in pain will not perform at their peak and can even become dangerous. I am a relatively experienced rider, and I have soft hands. I can ride nearly any horse in any bit without much of an issue as far as ****ing the horse off or causing injury to the mouth, and I may even find that some different, and potentially harsh bits are effective tools for me and a specific riding goal, but I would not put a long-shanked curb or a twisted wire in the hands of a beginner, because if a rider does pull hard on the bit, certain kinds of bits are less likely to hurt the horse or cause the horse severe discomfort.

If all I want to do is shoot cans off a wall, I could use a rifle, or I could use a water gun. In the hands of a somewhat experienced shooter, either option would work safely, but by choosing to use the water gun instead of the rifle, you greatly reduce your risk of hurting someone, especially in the hands of a beginner. This is why I always recommend the mildest option to get the job done.

With that said, I would like to critique the video by pointing out that bitless is not always the kindest method or the most preferred by the horse. A rider must apply pressure somewhere to communicate to their horse and bitless bridles work because they apply pressure. The pressure is just not applied inside the mouth. It is instead applied to the bridge of the nose, or the poll, depending on the type of bitless bridle and these are also extremely sensitive areas on the horse's head. Some horses much prefer pressure applied to a well-fitted bit, over pressure applied to a thin strap over their nose. Your job, as a rider, is to find what works best for you and your horse, as not all horses have the same conformation inside the mouth and not all horses have the same preferences for where pressure is applied.

My own horse goes well in a single jointed snaffle with a curved mouth piece. She does not toss her head around, open her mouth or put her tongue over the bit. She eagerly accepts the bit while tacking up. Horses that are unhappy with their rider's choice of bit will try to tell their rider in one way or another. It is true that a rider does not always listen to their horse, and that is a sad reality, but many riders do listen to their horses and have chosen a bit or bitless bridle that their horse is comfortable with. Whatever has been chosen, bit or no bit, curb or snaffle, as long as the rider remains safely in control and the horse is not showing signs of discomfort, there is nothing wrong with that choice.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

If someone I haven't seen ride wants to ride one of our horses, their first ride will be on Trooper (our most reliable horse) using a sidepull halter in an arena. If they cannot ride with slack in the reins, they won't ride with a bit. My 3 horses work best with a bit, but also with a rider who doesn't use the bit without a reason.

It isn't wrong to ride with contact, but it is wrong to let someone who doesn't know how to ride to try to ride with contact. The rider is an important part of the equation in choosing tack.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Just like the shoes discussion, this isn't a 'one size fits all' situation. A rider should chose the bit based on the horse, the discipline they are doing, and their honest riding level. Even the most simple snaffle could be harsh in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing. 

I ride my gelding in a gag, something that not everyone likes. But it works well for us and we both like it.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

kiltsrhott said:


> so only those who have been properly taught and are of sound mind should be able to shoot one.
> 
> I would not put a long-shanked curb or a twisted wire in the hands of a beginner, because if a rider does pull hard on the bit, certain kinds of bits are less likely to hurt the horse or cause the horse severe discomfort.


I completely agree with you. I wouldn't let the beginner ride my horse in a bit at all - if the horse still listens well in a halter/hackamore.
And if that beginner decides to pull and yank on his mouth and not listen to my direction, he won't be riding my horses at all even.

But I agree with you.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

TheSnowyStorm said:


> The actual subject is actually bits being painful. It is painful for them, therefore having bits, a horse suffers the pain. I can't see bit less bridles being cruel, they aren't hurting anyone, a horse has to learn that it won't hurt them.
> 
> Does that horse wear halters?
> If so, why isn't he scared of them? Technically bit less bridles and halters are the same.


Not the same, if you're using a Dr Cook or Nurtural or whatever. IMO they have more potential to cause pain than a snaffle. They use a cross under system and unless you're riding on a loose rein, that pulley system is engaged. The weird rubber on the nosepiece to keep it from sliding around seems to aggravate horses too. 
I rode an old horse of mine in one once and he hated it. Went berserk. With a bit? Calm and quiet as could be.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

TheSnowyStorm said:


> The actual subject is actually bits being painful. It is painful for them, therefore having bits, a horse suffers the pain. I can't see bit less bridles being cruel, they aren't hurting anyone, a horse has to learn that it won't hurt them.
> 
> Does that horse wear halters?
> If so, why isn't he scared of them? Technically bit less bridles and halters are the same.


You obviously have never tried a bit less bridle or you would know that they are not the same. AT ALL. So, not meaning to be rude, but I seriously question the level of your expertise.


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## TheSnowyStorm (May 2, 2013)

I have also got a bit less bridle and it is actually like a halter but designed with reins. I have never heard of 'Dr Cook'. I'm from Australia, are they in America?

(The bit less bridle isn't just a halter with reins)


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

There are a number of 'bitless bridles', ranging from a sidepull to a "Dr Cook" (probably the best known) to mechanical hackamores.

Dr Cook:










The Bitless Bridle by Dr. Robert Cook, FRCVS, Ph.D., a humane alternative to the bit

Sidepull:










Hackamore:










I don't believe they are any kinder than a snaffle, unless the rider is a total newbie who wants to balance on the reins. Nor are they worse. Just different.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

amberly said:


> Spoons make people fat.



This I like.

:rofl:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Horses are really good at avoiding painful situations - its part of their inbuilt preservation extinct - so if a horse found a bit to be so awful it would clamp its mouth shut and refuse to have it in without a fight every time
A rider with bad hands can cause pain
A badly fitting bit can cause pain
A badly designed bit can cause pain
A horse that hasn't been correctly prepared for a bit can experience pain
But those things are not the same as saying all bits cause pain
A horses nose and poll are extremely sensitive areas so a bad rider putting too much pressure on those parts can cause as much pain and damage


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

My horse will tell me if he doesn't like a piece of tack. If I put certain bits in his mouth he will absolutely run through them, act like a limp noodle and be all over the place. Put him back in a bit that he likes and he's supple and responsive. If I put a saddle on him that doesn't fit he'll be cinchy and cold backed. Put one on him that fits and he could care less that it's there.

I will also note that he rides western much better in a mild curb than in a snaffle most of the time. With a snaffle he looks for contact, but with a mild curb he's usually quite content on a loose rein. I think it's because the curb gives him more warning, and he gets concerned without direct contact in a snaffle because he is less sure of when I'm going to pick it up and signal with the reins. Personally, I really like this because though we primarily ride western, he is also my "everything" horse and it comes in handy when riding English correctly.

I think he would have an absolute fit in a Nurtural or Dr. Cook's even though he rides quite well in a rope halter. I don't think it would release pressure quickly enough and he would get frustrated, though they work for some horses. It depends on the individual, but I think frustrating my horse is much more cruel than being in constant, soft communication with a bit as needed. JMHO.


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## Kiara (Aug 27, 2008)

I think it depends on the hands their in.

My gelding prefers being ridden in a bit. He is not happy being ridden without. I tried. 

My mare will take the bit out of your hand, even when I try to give it to my gelding. 

Then again, I do my best to be light handed and have received comments from multiple trainers about how quiet my hands are.


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## Labrador (Jul 31, 2013)

Thanks you all for responding. It's very interesting to read all of these posts. I think most of us are of the mind that 'bits can cause pain, but it all depends on the hands on the reins.' I guess I have a follow-up question to the video then. The video makes it seem like every time any pressure is put on the reins the snaffle bows upwards and hits the top of the horse's mouth, causing pain. Do you think this representation of the bit mechanics is accurate or inaccurate?
Thanks guys!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ Inaccurate. See the pictures below:








​ 
A single joint will put more pressure on the bars and less on the tongue. Many horses prefer the french link, with 2 joints, that puts pressure on the tongue but less on the bars. My mare preferred a single joint to a double joint snaffle, and prefers a Billy Allen curb to either style of snaffle.

I saw an X-ray a few months ago showing the link pushing into the tongue, not the top of the mouth. It depends on the angles and how much pressure is put on the bit and at what angle.

Remember, pressures and 'pain' are relative. I can happily go an entire ride without pulling the reins back. But if a horse tries to bolt - a situation that can kill both horse & rider - then yes, I may pull very hard. I've never injured a horse's mouth, but I have removed much of the hair off the nose with a bitless bridle...

If a horse is trying to spin and bolt - something my mare used to do a lot - then "whatever it takes" is the safest thing for both of us.

I typically use a bit like the one below. The roller over the joint prevents any nutcracker action, while the sides can move independently of each other. It provides room for her tongue, which my horse likes, and she can play with the roller when nervous or bored. But a different horse might hate the bit below!








​ 
Any bit can be harsh, just as a bitless bridle can be. And sometimes, "harsh" beats the alternative: an out of control horse endangering itself and its rider!

Notice the pained expression on her face as we check out a new used saddle for the first time:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Ugh, that video just grates on my very last nerve LOL. _So_ much misinformation and _so_ many assumptions. As for your most recent question regarding the bit hitting the roof of the mouth...I believe it's _possible_ given the just perfect combination of factors including a horse with a narrow lower jaw and an exceptionally low palate combined with just the right angle of the head and just the right amount of pressure. BUT, I don't believe that it's a common occurrence at all.

Yes, bits _can_ cause pain....but so can bitless bridles and halters and saddles and crops and boots and breast collars or any number of other tack or equipment....if it's used improperly or doesn't fit.

Being kind to your horse doesn't mean using this or that particular piece of equipment like a bitless bridle or halter or whatever, it means educating yourself so that you can use _all_ pieces of equipment properly to minimize or prevent discomfort. It also means paying close enough attention to your horses that you can discover their preferences regarding tack and tack fit.

I mean, every one of these horses are being ridden in bits, either single jointed snaffles like shown in the video or curb bits not so different from what Bsms just posted a picture of, and they are all just as content and happy as can be. No resistance, no discomfort, no fear.

Snaffle, early in training









Curb, later in training









Curb on a seasoned horse









Snaffle on an older horse because that's what he prefers instead of a curb









Older mare approx. 30 days into training.









This mare was exceptionally uncomfortable with _any_ bit when I first got her due to her past experiences, but a little bit of time and correct handling and she ended up quiet and responsive and happy in any bit I put her in. This pic is about 45 days into training.









Of course, you also have to take into account what the horse prefers and their mouth conformation. Horses with a low palate will often prefer something with multiple joints or a mullen or low port mouth so that there's no interference with their palate. Horses with a thick tongue might like something with a single joint or a high port. Some horses prefer tongue pressure while others prefer bar pressure. Some horses like rollers and some like simple solid mouths. Some horses like a bit to hang lower in their mouth and other horses like the bit to be right up tight against their lips.

This horse hates it if I have the bit high enough to contact the corners of his mouth. He likes it hanging down so that he can pick it up and put it right where he wants it. You can see the big gap between the two really well in this picture. There are a lot of folks who would say "You should get that bit up where it's _supposed_ to be, with a wrinkle in the corner of his mouth". I simply ask them "Why should I do that if it aggravates my horse? He's happy and responsive with it hanging down. Is it worth it to have the bit up where it's 'supposed' to be if it ticks him off?"


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

First off, the chair to snaffle bit analogy may be the worst analogy in bitting history...

Second, did anyone else notice that that video was based off of Dr. Cook in the credits at the end.....biased much?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you put enough force on a snaffle bit then it will 'nutcracker' like that but that would take you back to the thing most of us have said - bad hands and incorrect training is the cause of pain and not the bit when used correctly


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

ZaneyZanne123 said:


> I knew a gun once....I knew it well. Shot it several times, But it never killed a darn thing.


because the hands that were using it knew how to use it properly. Unless you were trying to kill something( hunting) then I might say learn to use it better.:lol:


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

Fort fireman said:


> because the hands that were using it knew how to use it properly. *Unless you were trying to kill something( hunting) then I might say learn to use it better*.:lol:


 
Ha, yeah. I did use another gun but for specific reason. I have shot and killed ground hogs that were a nuissance due to digging holes in pastures where cows and or horses would step in and injure themselves. But I still had control and I have never seen a gun stand up and point itself to a living being and shoot it. There was always a human being behind it. Its only leathal in the wrong hands (due to ignorrance or intentions) 

I havent shot a gun in so long I will need retraining on how to handle it again. The key word is training (education).


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

Uhhh, people!!!! I was shocked to see so many love stories about curb bits. Most people can't even have soft hands in snaffles (including myself), let alone leverage bits! Reading all these stories about how my horse only listens to curb bits, or the Tom Thumb bit made my horse respect me is just sickening. If your horse won't listen to you unless you cause pain, there's something majorely wrong. 
And if your horse is so happy in a snaffle and you barely have to use the reins at all, why do you need a bit? It doesn't make much sense. 
For what it's worth, I agree with the video, but there are exceptions to every rule. Excellent riders (I mean 40+ years of experience here, people) can probably ride in a snaffle without hurting their horse (but why would they want to?). The reason everyone has problems such as bolting, bucking, head tossing, ect., is because your horse is in pain.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

hottamalegirl said:


> Uhhh, people!!!! I was shocked to see so many love stories about curb bits. Most people can't even have soft hands in snaffles (including myself), let alone leverage bits! Reading all these stories about how my horse only listens to curb bits, or the Tom Thumb bit made my horse respect me is just sickening. If your horse won't listen to you unless you cause pain, there's something majorely wrong.
> And if your horse is so happy in a snaffle and you barely have to use the reins at all, why do you need a bit? It doesn't make much sense.
> For what it's worth, I agree with the video, but there are exceptions to every rule. Excellent riders (I mean 40+ years of experience here, people) can probably ride in a snaffle without hurting their horse (but why would they want to?). The reason everyone has problems such as bolting, bucking, head tossing, ect., is because your horse is in pain.




How old are you?


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

"How old are you?"
I'm in high school. 
Yes, I know by just telling you that, you will completely diregard what I have to say because I am so young and inexperienced 
I know I'm inexperienced. I know that I make mistakes with my horse daily. But I also know that I am not experienced enough the guarentee my horse comfort by using a bit. I just don't have the hands for that. And why would I want to put metal in my horse's mouth when there is a safer and more comfortable option? 
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just have strong opinions


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

When you get some more experience, you'll realize that it's not the tool you use, but how you use it.

Bad hands are just as harsh on a bitless bridle or a halter as they are on a snaffle and/or curb bit.

I've seen bruised and bleeding mouths...but I've also seen skinned/swollen and bleeding faces.

The age old question: which is better, bits or bitless? 

My answer? *The knowledge to use your chosen tool correctly.*

Barring any physical reason why a bit would be uncomfortable for the horse, then the responsibility lies solely in the hands on the reins. You can be soft in a curb bit or harsh in a halter...or the other way around.

The tool doesn't matter. If you know how to use it correctly, then there will be no discomfort to the horse.


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

hottamalegirl said:


> "How old are you?"
> I'm in high school.
> Yes, I know by just telling you that, you will completely diregard what I have to say because I am so young and inexperienced
> I know I'm inexperienced. I know that I make mistakes with my horse daily. But I also know that I am not experienced enough the guarentee my horse comfort by using a bit. I just don't have the hands for that. And why would I want to put metal in my horse's mouth when there is a safer and more comfortable option?
> I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just have strong opinions


When you get some more time you will see that there is no single tool that does it all. Every horse is different and require a different communication tool to understand the message. If a bit is causing pain it is NOT being used correctly. Period!! IMHO.


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

I understand all of you and already agree. My point is not that snaffle bits are completely bad, but most people just don't know how to use them. I've seen people shaking their heads wondering why their horse tosses their head or rears and then I see that they have tight reins and are constantly in their horse's face. 
And what happens if your horse steps on his reins while wearing a bit? What happens if your falling off and you are yanking on the reins? Your horse's mouth gets severly injured, that's what happens. 
My question again, Why would you want to use a bit? What benefit other than a false sense of control and that you must wear one in a show ring?


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

> And what happens if your horse steps on his reins while wearing a bit? What happens if your falling off and you are yanking on the reins? Your horse's mouth gets severly injured, that's what happens.


I just have to answer this one. 

My poor horse. My poor, overly tolerant horse. My poor, overly tolerant, too good for me horse, stepped on his right rein when it slipped out of my hand on our second ride in his snaffle bit. I felt so bad but I could not stop laughing because he was being SUCH a good boy and just kept turning in circles... like the rein trapped under his hoof was asking him to do. He could have reared (although he never has), he could have freaked.... but all he did was turn in circle after circle. :lol: 

And that was our first and LAST adventure in attempting to use split reins. :wink:


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

What a good horse you have  But it was an experieince your horse did not need to have.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

hottamalegirl said:


> ...I was shocked to see so many love stories about curb bits. Most people can't even have soft hands in snaffles (including myself), let alone leverage bits...But I also know that I am not experienced enough the guarentee my horse comfort by using a bit. I just don't have the hands for that. And why would I want to put metal in my horse's mouth when there is a safer and more comfortable option?
> I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just have strong opinions


It takes almost no experience at all to ride a horse gently with a curb bit. Just keep slack in the reins. 

Of course, there are times one needs to take the slack out. If the horse is about to bolt, then yes, a curb bit is not totally comfortable and gentle. But neither is a broken leg, and neither is a panicked, mindless bolt. 

There isn't a safer and more comfortable option that works with every horse. Bitless works fine for some horses, but they are generally horses that first learned a habit of obedience via a bit. I spent 3 years using bitless with Mia & Trooper. It did little harm to Trooper, but he didn't progress during that time. It was harmful to Mia because she didn't have the habit of obedience, and bitless gave her too many unsafe options.

I've seen with my own eyes how using a bit, and then progressing to one of those cruel curbs, has transformed Mia. She isn't a solid trail horse yet, but I remember a time when the professional trainer said she couldn't promise Mia would ever be safe to ride. I also remember when weeks later, the same trainer said Mia might never be safe to ride outside of an arena. A year in a snaffle, and now a year in a curb...and we have a way to go. But progress came when I ditched the bitless options.

The video doesn't show that. The video doesn't even understand how a bit works in a horse's mouth, let alone how training works in a horse's mind.

There is nothing wrong with strong opinions, but it helps to have something more than a flawed Internet video to back them up. Why do I believe a curb bit can help a horse find peace? 

Because I've seen it:​ 









"_And what happens if your horse steps on his reins while wearing a bit? What happens if your falling off and you are yanking on the reins? Your horse's mouth gets severly injured, that's what happens. 
My question again, Why would you want to use a bit? What benefit other than a false sense of control and that you must wear one in a show ring?_"

My horses have never stepped on their rein. The one time I came off was when Mia exploded during a dismount after a bolt. I flew off like I was in an ejection seat, and there was no way in hell I was going to keep a hand on the reins.

But lots of folks HAVE held on the the reins, and not injured their horse's mouth. The Internet propaganda you are believing is simply not true.

And no, it is NOT a false sense of security. With even minimal training, a snaffle bit gives you more control than any bitless I've seen - and I used bitless for 3 years. With slightly more minimal training, a curb bit gives you better control with some horses than a snaffle...depends on the horse. (Mia uses a curb, and Trooper uses a snaffle).

If Mia is thinking about a bolt, a curb bit will stop her in her tracks with about 2-3 firm bumps in the space of a second. A snaffle won't because she'll fight the snaffle, so one has about a 20-30 second fight for control in the same situation. And in the same situation in a bitless bridle...she bolts mindlessly. That is not an Internet BS video. I logged a lot of bolts and near bolts with Mia, bitless, snaffle and a few in a curb. The curb bit seems to have taken the bolt out of her...I don't remember the last time she tried a bolt. I'd guess it was last spring, when she dragged a leg against a cactus and took in about 100 spines. 3 quick bumps, and she stopped and waited for me to take care of her leg. 

There is nothing false about that. Had she taken off in the direction she started for, we had about 50 yards to a 10 foot drop...although all the cactus between us and the wash might have stopped her...:? ​


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

hottamalegirl said:


> I understand all of you and already agree. My point is not that snaffle bits are completely bad, but most people just don't know how to use them. I've seen people shaking their heads wondering why their horse tosses their head or rears and then I see that they have tight reins and are constantly in their horse's face.
> 
> And how is that the bit's fault? I've seen horses do the exact same things when being ridden in a bosal or a halter or a "calm and gentle" bitless bridle. That is a *rider* problem, not a tack problem. Regardless of whether they are in a snaffle or a bitless, the horse is still in pain.
> 
> ...


The bit has absolutely nothing to do with control. _Training _is what creates the control. If a horse has bad training, then the strongest bit on the planet won't make him do what you want him to do. For goodness sake, the average horse outweighs me by nearly 10 times. I can't _force _them to do anything that they don't want to.

I can ride my horses in anything from a string around their neck to a halter to a snaffle to a curb. The difference is in the clarity of communication. In a string or a halter, I actually have to put pressure on the horse's face or neck to try to make clear what I'm asking. In the snaffle, I don't have to apply pressure, but I still have to be big with my cues to get them to understand. In a curb bit, getting exactly what I want is often as easy as moving my hand a couple of inches or using a pinky to pick up on one rein just a bit, just enough to pick up a bit of the slack.

The difference is in the clarity of the cues. For a good rider, riding in a halter or something similar is about like trying to talk using those old tin can telephones with the string strung between them. Sure, you can hear what the other person is saying...mostly, but it's muted and often garbled and you have to really concentrate to try to decipher what they're saying so your responses are slow and you might answer a question wrong because you aren't sure what they are asking. On the other hand, a curb bit is about like a digital telephone where you can whisper and the other person years you perfectly clear.

Is it better to yell with a simple tool or whisper with a more advanced one?


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

Yes, of course your horse stops bolting in a curb- she's in pain!!!
She's fights anything softer because she's learned - if I am to put it bluntly- that her rider is not capable of correcting and redirecting a bolt without pain. Yes, the curb works. But is it the best thing for your horse? Bitless riding requires more preparing and thinking on the rider's part. But in the long run, it's better for the horse. And isn't that what we all want?


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

Like has been said. A bit does not give you the control. No one can over power a horse with a bit. It is not physically possible for most people. The bit is mearly a communication tool. It is the phone line to relay a message to the horse. If someone is resorting to "screaming" with the reins there is a hole in the training or lack of knowledge on the rides part. That is not the tools fault it is the riders fault.


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

smrobs, I wil just have to agree to disagree. You can whisper in a halter just as easily as in a curb. I've seen it done and done it myself. 
And yes, horses fall in holes, get tangled in wire. But we make sure our pastures are as hole- free as possible right? We don't fence with barbed wire, right? We don't go galloping through a new feild with tall grass, right? We take precautions to limit injuries to our horses, so how is a bit any different?


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

hottamalegirl, do you take your horse's preferences into consideration rather than your own when it comes to bitting? 
Based off of your posts it seems to me that you assume that _all_ horses prefer bitless and snaffles.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

No, she doesn't stop because she is in pain. If the bit caused significant pain, she wouldn't accept the bit the next time. For example, she doesn't like snaffles with fat links. I found that out because after a couple of rides, she wouldn't open her mouth for the bit. She would twist her head to avoid it. But she doesn't do that with one of those cruel curb bits. 

"_She's fights anything softer because she's learned - if I am to put it bluntly- that her rider is not capable of correcting and redirecting a bolt without pain._"

That sounds like someone who hasn't much time on a bolting horse. To put it bluntly, you need to try dealing with a horse who bolts frequently before you decide what will or will not deal with a bolt. 

It also means you do not understand how bits operate in the horse's mouth. Have you ever heard of the phrase 'he has the bit in his teeth'? It isn't as common as it used to be, but it means a person who won't listen...and guess where it comes from? That's right. If a horse grabs a snaffle bit with its teeth - which they can do - then the snaffle is about as effective as a sidepull halter: not at all. But with a curb bit, the bridle will still apply pressure to the poll, and the curb strap allows the rider to leverage the horse's head to a more vertical position. That brings their binocular vision closer to them, and they tend to slow to stay within the bounds of their vision.

That is how the curb bit got its name. Curb means "to restrain". A curb bit is mechanically more effective at convincing a horse to stop than a snaffle, and either is more effective than a sidepull halter, or a bridle that puts pressure under the jaw.

A curb does not work through pain. The pressure on the poll is something almost all horses are used to because of how a halter works - and they get release from pressure on the poll by bringing their head down and softening. That cue - soften in response to pressure on the poll - is used almost universally by every halter. Thousands of repetitions as they walk in a halter make it an instinctive habit. And the pressure on the poll that a curb bit gives doesn't stop until the rider releases the reins.

A curb bit is less instinctive for turning a horse than a snaffle, but more instinctive for stopping a horse. That is why we normally teach a horse to turn and learn to neck rein in a snaffle instead of a curb, but why curbs can work well at teaching a horse to not bolt.

And if you have a spooky, bolting horse who is a danger to herself and others, then getting her to stop reliably is critical for her safety and life. Without it, she is likely to end up on a one way trip to Mexico. But if you can stop her when she is afraid, you can train her to stop being afraid, or at least not to respond to her fears in a way that is dangerous. And then you can teach her that the scary things are not scary, so she should listen to her rider.

"_Bitless riding requires more preparing and thinking on the rider's part. But in the long run, it's better for the horse._"

Again: I rode bitless for 3 years. It was not better for the horse. It was far worse for Mia, and not helpful to Trooper. The problem is that people put utter drivel on the Internet, and sell their LIES to people who do not know better.

Look at the picture of Trooper & I bitless. Notice how much control of the nose a sidepull halter gives you:










None. You cannot tip the nose in. You cannot tip the nose down. It has all the finesse of doing surgery with a 2-by-4. With some exceptions, horses follow their noses. (Yes, a horse can bolt with its nose against your knee...I've done it). Many bitless options give you no mechanical control over the nose. The crossunder styles put pressure UNDER the jaw - and most horses learn to move AWAY from pressure - so their design tends to tell the horse to raise its head instead of soften it. They also do not release pressure instantly, which makes it harder to tell the horse when it is doing the right thing - pressure and release requires good timing on the release. Mechanical hackamores can break a horse's nose if not adjusted correctly. 

I haven't seen a bitless option that cues the horse as precisely as a snaffle, nor have I seen one as good at cueing a horse to soften and bring its nose down as a curb bit.

In the end, bit are NOT about pain. They are about communication, and training a horse with easily recognized cues to respond even if it isn't in the mood. Ultimately, control comes from a habit of obedience - a habit so strong that the horse will respond even if it is afraid. That means training, and enough successful repetition that the horse will respond to your cues and stay safe. 

A curb bit does not work through pain. It gives a clear signal in the mouth, and follows it with something most horses understand - poll pressure. It ultimately provides some leverage to help bring a horse's vision closer to its feet, slowing the horse. Not pain.

You cannot whisper as effectively in a halter as in a bit. The mechanics are against you. You might as well use a fat crayon instead of a fine point pen...

"_smrobs, I wil just have to agree to disagree._"

smrobs has vastly more experience than I do, and I'm pretty sure I have far more than you do. Agreeing to disagree with someone who has far greater experience than you do is not a good way to go through life...:?


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

COWCHICK77, my horse's preference is the REASON my horse is bitless. NO horse LIKES a bit. You think they enjoy metal in their mouth? Of course not, it's something we humans have developed for the benefit of OURSELVES.


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

bsms, my horse used to bolt all the time. I've fallen off of her twice from her bolts. Now that I've actually taken the time to understand her, she hasn't done it in over a year. 
And who cares if your horse looks pretty or carries their head a certain way? All that matters is if you can control them effectively.


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## hottamalegirl (Jan 19, 2014)

Alright everyone, done for today. Don't have any energy left!! 
Seroiusly though, I get where everyone's coming from, but I don't agree. Yes, you all probably have more experience- in tranditional horse methods. I've chosen a new path. 
And, uhh, bsms, reins aren't meant to be that short in a rope halter. 
Okay, I'll just stop with my posts that you all think are nonsense and it's just a phase I will soon grow out of. 
Bye!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Curing a horse of bolting is not about "understanding" your horse. If the horse has a problem with blind fear, it requires teaching the horse to listen to the rider instead of its fears. That means maintaining some semblance of control even when the horse is getting scared.

I said nothing about putting a horse in a pretty headset. You have far better control of a horse if you can control its nose than if you do not. Control of the nose IS a big part of controlling a horse. And sidepull halters give you no control over the nose.

This is my world:










A horse who bolts in a place like that is risking her life and her rider's. Being able to stop her almost immediately - and in a straight line - is one of the kindest things I could do for her.

"_And, uhh, bsms, reins aren't meant to be that short in a rope halter._"

Ummm...if your horse is excited about cantering, like Trooper was that day, and you want him to slow down, slack in the reins won't help. That is part of the problem with sidepulls - they work best in a horse who is already well behaved. They don't work so well with an excited horse.

"_NO horse LIKES a bit._"

You base that on how many horses? Look at my avatar. Does she look like she is upset over having a horrible bit in her mouth? What about here - pain? Notice SHE pulled the slack out of the left rein:


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

My mare dose not listen well bitless. I can ride her bitless but I dont expect nice brakes or a well behaved horse (or any grace). It normally ends in head tossing, bolting and a 40 foot stop (Or no stop). She acts better in her tom thumb on a loose rein then with me putting a dent in her nose bitless. I have ridden her in a snaffle (She dose NOT like it but will tolerate it) I have ridden her in a curb (if i want her ears in my face) Bitless (i get ears in my face, bolting and jigging). The best result is her tom thumb as she will listen on a loose rein. Do i ride trails bitless? Yeah sometimes, but if she is being fresh she gets a bit. I currently use a Dr. Cook style, I have used a sidepull, but her side pull rope halter works better, and I have seen her past owner use a hack, NOT going to try that as she WILL try to flip herself over. Some horses work well bitless, some don't.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

hottamalegirl said:


> "How old are you?"
> I'm in high school.
> Yes, I know by just telling you that, you will completely diregard what I have to say because I am so young and inexperienced
> I know I'm inexperienced. I know that I make mistakes with my horse daily. But I also know that I am not experienced enough the guarentee my horse comfort by using a bit. I just don't have the hands for that. And why would I want to put metal in my horse's mouth when there is a safer and more comfortable option?
> I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just have strong opinions


:rofl: Being that age will NOT make everyone immediately disregard what you have to say. I'm barely 18 and just graduated last year and there are several other members on here who are the same age as I am and younger who are respectable members with knowledge and are also humble enough to know that we have so much more to learn.

What WILL get your information disregarded is the lack of knowledge backing up your claim. My mare absolutely hates any nose pressure, which is what the majority of bitless options use. However, she is just fine with a snaffle and actually stretches in to it and seeks out contact because she is trained to accept it and knows I am not going to hurt her. Not every horse prefers going bitless, just like not every horse prefers or is physically able to carry a bit.


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

Potentially getting killed or the animal getting killed over producing some pain (should be temporary) via mouth when bolting???? yeah no brainer there. Then retraining must happen after the incident to correct the behavior. Not relying on the pain causing method for breaks.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

hottamalegirl said:


> Alright everyone, done for today. Don't have any energy left!!
> Seroiusly though, I get where everyone's coming from, but I don't agree. Yes, you all probably have more experience- in tranditional horse methods. I've chosen a new path.
> And, uhh, bsms, reins aren't meant to be that short in a rope halter.
> Okay, I'll just stop with my posts that you all think are nonsense and it's just a phase I will soon grow out of.
> Bye!


You aren't understanding the 'design' of the horses head if you think that pressure from a bit is going to be harder than pressure on its nose from anything that works that way to restrain or control. The nasal bone that protects the soft issue underneath it is way thinner than the jaw bone and its actually a lot easier to damage the nasal bone than it is to damage the jaw bone
If you have good hands and balance then you aren't going to hurt a horses mouth at all but heavy hands will cause as much damage on the nose as they will on the mouth


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

First off, I don't hang a snaffle bit low as many western riders do. It's up where it forms a tiny crease behind the lip (the smallest hint of a smile. I tried hanging it lower just to see what the horse would do and he held it where I normally put it. In the use of any bit, hands have to be quiet and not used to assist with balance. If the hands are motionless, the horse will tip his nose to relieve pressure. Riders often think they've lost contact and will shorten the reins. I've played around with horses that were considered hard mouthed and found them to get very responsive in a snaffle to turning by merely ticking the rein with my pinky. Once they caught on they'd turn on a dime. Barely moving the rein sent the signal to the horse's mouth, and it would respond. No cruelty in that.


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

jaydee said:


> You aren't understanding the 'design' of the horses head if you think that pressure from a bit is going to be harder than pressure on its nose from anything that works that way to restrain or control. The nasal bone that protects the soft issue underneath it is way thinner than the jaw bone and its actually a lot easier to damage the nasal bone than it is to damage the jaw bone
> If you have good hands and balance then you aren't going to hurt a horses mouth at all but heavy hands will cause as much damage on the nose as they will on the mouth


Just to add.
There are facial nerves that are just as sensitive as those in the mouth. damaging those by rough hands are just as detrimental.


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## womack29 (Oct 30, 2011)

Agree there is nothing cruel about bits. Any bit can be abusive in the wrong hands. I ride TWH in a curb bit and she has no problems from it. You will find many opinions on this subject just as you will on barefoot vs shod.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Hmm, my horses must not be aware that they are supposed to hate the bit. They all basically bridle themselves and pick the bit up out of my hand as if it were a treat.

If we're going to go the route of what horses "should" hate, then we can add saddles to the list because I'd be willing to bet that 3/4 of the riders in the world are riding in ill-fitting saddles. We can also add stalls because stalling a horse causes anxiety based vices like cribbing, weaving, stall-walking, etc.

BUT, I think you're right. We are just going to have to agree to disagree. We can maybe revisit this conversation when you've been riding and training as long as some members here.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

If every horse hated bits as much as hottamalegirl seems to think, we wouldn't be using them. Period. As was stated by another poster, horses have a pretty good way of making it clear when they don't like something; whether it's an ugly face, or something a bit more evasive.

My horse doesn't mind the bit one bit. I can guarantee it.

Again, this all goes back to knowing the equipment you're using, and why you're using it.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Bit less here - not due to a revolutionary movement, but just because I tried it, my horses respond to the cues given happily, and it works! I don't see a need for a bit with my mares, and truly enjoy the natural simplicity probably as much as they do


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I have had horses who would literally try to bridle themselves. They would grab at the bit as I try to bridle them. This makes it really hard. The horse in my avatar would do this because he was eager to get going and loved being ridden. I suspect if his snaffle bit caused him so much pain, he would not have behaved this way. 

So, he sent ME a pretty clear message.......


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## nitapitalou (Jan 20, 2014)

Any piece of tack can cause pain if used wrong. If you cinch up a horse too tight. If you use an ill fitting saddle. If the saddle pad wasn't inspected and has a burr. The throat latch is put on too tight. The list goes on and on. I think the best method is to try and see what works with your horse the best. If they hate and react poorly to a piece of tack, try something else. 

I have a old, old gelding. He had been abused horridly in his younger years. Someone misused a bit in his mouth and almost cut his tongue off. His tongue healed, but it isn't straight because of the horrid scar running across it. However, he doesn't mind packing a bit around when used gently. 

I have another gelding that was always ridden in a running martingale, because he would pull and flip his head with a slip ring snaffle. I switched him to a Kimerwick bit with a dog bone in the middle of the snaffle. He is no longer in a martingale, he doesn't flip his head, and has learned that he can be ridden in a bosal and not try to fight it either. He had been so use to hating the snaffle that he tried to get away from it, to the point he was dangerous in the bosal. He hid me in the head as we went up a hill the first time I rode him in the bosal, broke my sunglasses across my nose. 

My filly I am training to drive now, hates a bit. She hasn't worn one much, but so far is really against it. For the time being I am ground driving her in her halter with no issues. I may go bit less for her. 

I think people have this tendency to get into a mindset and not look with logic at the either side. Read your horse, understand your horse. Do what works well for your horse. Bits can be cruel to a horse that hates them. Teach them to "hold" the bit and you can go far with such light pressure that there is no way it can be cruel unless you chose for it to be. 

Good luck to everyone, and listen to your horse. They will tell what is right and wrong for them.

~Anita


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## mulepreacher (Aug 28, 2013)

Any piece of equipment can be used to hurt your horse. Learn what works and how to use it. A little education goes a long way.


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