# Lame Horse Lying Down A Lot



## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

My daughter has a 17yo show horse that went lame last December. After lots of tests, injections, treatments, etc. we retired him. He's at a non-show barn now and is living the good horsey life, but my daughter has noticed he's begun lying down a lot. He's still lame, which isn't surprising as his vet said he has an injury to the collateral ligament in his front left foot that could take 6 months to 2 years to heal. He also has navicular. What concerns us is that he is lying down a lot. He'll get up when my daughter clucks and calls his name, but not just get up to see her. We're having the new barn's vet look at him, but wanted other's opinions about how concerned we should be in the meantime.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

When is he laying down, does he seem distressed? What color are his gums?


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## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

He lays down at all times of the day. My daughter says he doesn't seems distressed. With that said, she tells me (I don't know much about horses) that horses mask their pain and he's always been a very chill horse. His gums are pink.

Thank you for your response ~ and I apologize for posting the same thing twice (new to board and overzealous I suppose!)!!!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

If he is lame, he hurts.
If he is laying down, while down he is able to take the pressure and stress off of the part of his anatomy that is causing him pain....
Self-preservation on the horses part...
No different than after a tiring day at work you put your feet up and rest....well, he is putting his feet up and resting.
Is there more to it than that only you and a vet doing a examination can tell you with their findings.
I would be questioning the vet about being able to give something to lessen his discomfort long term while healing if anything is available..

Good luck and WELCOME to the forum...
:runninghorse2:...


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Two things,

How is his housing situation and how has your weather been this spring? If he's on a dry lot and it's been a wet, muddy spring, he may have not been able to lay down and if it's dried up now he can. Could also make him more sore if he was on his feet more.

Or his feet have gotten more sore. Has be been reevaluated by the vet recently? Could you try a regiment of pain killers to see of that effects frequency? Have you thought about shoes, pads, and magic cusion?


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## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

horselovingguy - Thank you for your response. I figured he was in discomfort, but pain makes me so sad. I think it's a great idea to ask the vet about long-term pain relief. The new vet said we could use Previcox but he didn't think the horse really needs it. Every once he gets Bute when his lameness gets especially bad (he's having lots of ups and downs), but we know he can't have that long term. I'll ask for him to start getting Previcox today. 

ApuetsoT - He's in a stall from 7am to 4pm and out on grass all night. The weather hasn't been especially wet or dry, so he was able to lie down. The vet hasn't specifically looked at him in a few weeks, but is there every day and he is related to the barn owner. He's looking at the horse again tomorrow. He has shoes, the farrier didn't think he needs pads and his feet are packed with magic cushion three times a week. The farrier is coming next week.


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## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

I guess what I'm asking, in addition to wanting other's opinions and advice and anything anyone can tell me to help my daughter's horse, is how do we know when he's in too much pain and we're being selfish and cruel to keep him with us? We will do everything under the sun to prolong that time, hence me wanting everyone's opinion and advice. But the thought of him suffering terribly and us not knowing is horrifying. I've come to love my daughter's horses so much (never thought I'd become SUCH a horse and therefore, animal lover  and want to help my daughter decide the right thing ~ whether that's medication, treatments, therapy, or putting him out of his misery (okay, I really don't want to do the last one, but know it's part of life). It's a lot of pressure on a teenager to make decisions like this and I'm trying to educate myself.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

consider his diet. he is at a new place, so diet may have changed. he could be experiencing lowgrade laminitus, triggered by inactivity and increased sugars in his food and other environmental factors.

just out of curiousity, why is he in stall all day and out at night? is it that you are in a very hot climate? 

does he have a new farrier? 

how are his poops? diarhea? have you felt his feet to see if any of them feel hot? can you post a photo of his feet? i'd like to see the shape of his hooves to see if they are exhibiting the classic concavity of a possible ongoing laminitic foot.

do his hooves have noticeable 'rings' on them? are the sort of concave? is the wall of the hoof pulling away from teh sole?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

17 is relatively young imo, but with something like navicular and such... I would talk to the vet about euthansia.

Him lying down so often just screams "my feet hurt and I can't take it any more!". Unfortunately doesn't sound like something that will ever get fully better and the "somewhat" better will still take awhile.

Do talk to the vet, ask about Previcox and such, but I would have a conversation and what I always like to ask "what would you do if this was your horse". A good vet will put the horse first and it sounds like it may be worth a trial of pain management but that sooner or later euthanasia is inevitable. Maybe sooner, sad as it is to say on one not too old. It's our responsibility to give them the best life possible and when that's no longer possible the best end.

Your daughter is absolutely right, as a prey animal a horse showing signs of weakness would be eaten. I have seen all sorts of extraordinary things that us humans would be flat out screaming over and the horse shows no indication of pain. Especially for a laid back and calm horse. His laying down frequently is simply his way of saying "I CANNOT stand anymore" and how much pain would it take for the toughest person you know to do that? then x 100. He's vulnerable lying it's not natural to lie down so often but he feels he must.

Granted there are other reasons he may be laying down, but from what is written and as he's being seen by a vet and such it really sounds like standing is just too much.

I wish you and your daughter the best of luck with him, poor guy.


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## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

tinyliny - His diet is similar, but a different brand. My daughter agrees with you and has been concerned about possible laminitis, so that's on the list for the vet tomorrow. He's out at night (as are all the horses here) because it often gets into the 90's and even 100 degrees with a good amount of humidity. No new farrier ~ we continued using the one from his previous barn. His poops are normal ~ no diarrhea. His feet aren't hot. They do have rings, but aren't concave. The wall of the hoof is not pulling away from the sole. My daughter is going to take pictures of his feet so I can post them.

Yogiwick - Ugh, I've been bracing myself for months for what you said, which is why I'm finally being proactive and trying to help my daughter figure it all out. My daughter and I just read your response together and kept looking at each other saying, "we know that's true" and "we were just hoping he'd get better" and such, even though we knew that would take a miracle and it can still happen! And my daughter keeps telling me to stop crying  Anyway, my daughter's show barn where we bought him was a full service barn that did everything except ride (and they did have a professional rider on staff) and after we left for another show barn that had a different philosophy, we realized the poor thing had been pumped full of medications and injections and such to keep him going. Three months after getting to the new barn with a much more conservative approach, yet same vet, he went lame. So we retired him and hoped for the best. He sure was happy to be retired and the first time he got to run out in a huge grassy field he just ran and bucked and rolled! It seemed for a short while like he was getting better. For the first time, he had friends he was turned out with and my daughter has the cutest picture ever of him and two of his friends all grooming each other! He had never had any of that before, so at least if we do end up having to put him down, he had that happy time (although he really did love being in work and showing when he felt better). 

Thank you everyone for your kindness and suggestions. I really appreciate it all. If anyone else has any suggestions or thoughts, we're not giving up yet!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

sounds like you are taking all things into account. thank you for your detailed answers.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

But don't rush into putting the horse down without the vet's input. It could be something simple, and not something deadly or causing pain


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## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

Here's praying that you are right Skyseternalangel! We definitely won't rush into putting him down and are very much looking forward to getting the vet's take on it tomorrow. 

Again, I so appreciate everyone who has taken the time to answer this "horse mom" who doesn't know much about horses but sure does love them!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

jla said:


> tinyliny - His diet is similar, but a different brand. My daughter agrees with you and has been concerned about possible laminitis, so that's on the list for the vet tomorrow. He's out at night (as are all the horses here) because it often gets into the 90's and even 100 degrees with a good amount of humidity. No new farrier ~ we continued using the one from his previous barn. His poops are normal ~ no diarrhea. His feet aren't hot. They do have rings, but aren't concave. The wall of the hoof is not pulling away from the sole. My daughter is going to take pictures of his feet so I can post them.
> 
> Yogiwick - Ugh, I've been bracing myself for months for what you said, which is why I'm finally being proactive and trying to help my daughter figure it all out. My daughter and I just read your response together and kept looking at each other saying, "we know that's true" and "we were just hoping he'd get better" and such, even though we knew that would take a miracle and it can still happen! And my daughter keeps telling me to stop crying  Anyway, my daughter's show barn where we bought him was a full service barn that did everything except ride (and they did have a professional rider on staff) and after we left for another show barn that had a different philosophy, we realized the poor thing had been pumped full of medications and injections and such to keep him going. Three months after getting to the new barn with a much more conservative approach, yet same vet, he went lame. So we retired him and hoped for the best. He sure was happy to be retired and the first time he got to run out in a huge grassy field he just ran and bucked and rolled! It seemed for a short while like he was getting better. For the first time, he had friends he was turned out with and my daughter has the cutest picture ever of him and two of his friends all grooming each other! He had never had any of that before, so at least if we do end up having to put him down, he had that happy time (although he really did love being in work and showing when he felt better).
> 
> Thank you everyone for your kindness and suggestions. I really appreciate it all. If anyone else has any suggestions or thoughts, we're not giving up yet!


The important thing to remember is that animals live in the moment, they don't know they will get better, and honestly with a list of issues sounds like he will never be fully 100%. I sure hope it's not "time"! it's just something to keep in mind, unfortunately. If the vet has any good ideas I would definitely give them a try first.

If he was sound with medications/injections and such that may be worth a try. Obviously it's not ideal but to give him even a few more years it may be worth it if you can afford it. I agree less is more, but sometimes you just need more. I would definitely try Previcox if your vet thinks it's appropriate.

I am glad he is happy! If he can be "pasture sound" and enjoy his retirement that would be great, doesn't sound like he is pasture sound but does sound like it would be worth a try!

He is obviously very loved, and I know your daughter and you will do right by him whatever that may be.

Sky I COMPLETELY agree, BUT "He's still lame, which isn't surprising as his vet said he has an injury to the collateral ligament in his front left foot that could take 6 months to 2 years to heal. He also has navicular." That alone is pretty serious.. :/. I'm not even sure he has something else in addition, it could just be the already diagnosed issues (my guess).

As far as approach as you've a starting point (chronic front feet issues) I would talk to your vet about Previcox, Phycox (pain/joint supplement), magnetic therapy, injections, shoeing/therapeutic trimming, rest (not necessarily stall rest but maybe not "running and bucking" movement). A lot of those may be a financial issue, but just throwing stuff out that comes to mind. As he is older and retired you could even consider permanently nerve blocking his feet (I know people do this for advanced navicular but don't know the details, obviously iffy).

Do you have recent x-rays? It may be worthwhile to take a second look at the navicular and see how big a part of this it may be.

ETA- I'm glad you have the vet coming out so quickly! Let us know how it goes, I've got my fingers crossed for you guys!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

And don't be afraid to seek out a second opinion. Sometimes specialists see things regular vets don't. But that's just my opinion.

We haven't seen pictures, video, anything... so we are only offering blind advice based on our interpretations.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I have to agree with Yogiwick. When the pain meds for my arthritic mare were no longer working good enough to ease her discomfort she also spent a lot of time laying down. So much that she was getting pressure sores and I knew it was time to let her go even though she still seemed bright eyed and happy. 

By all means I think pain meds is something you should explore just be prepared if they aren't enough to make him comfortable.


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## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

LONG ANSWER ALERT!!!!!


Yogiwick - We definitely expected after the initial diagnosis that he will never be 100% which is why we retired him. If it does in fact take two years for him to recover, he'll be 19 yo and we assume not up to showing at the demanding level he was. It just seemed like the humane thing to accept that he's done showing. We did try injections, medications, etc ~ the same vet serviced the new, more conservative barn and knew exactly what the previous barn's protocol was. So we tried all the same ol' stuff he'd been getting before to no avail. My daughter remembered this morning that Previcox was tried at that time and it didn't do much so it wasn't continued. He was on stall rest last December and then put out for a couple to few hours every day after that. When we moved him to his current, non-show barn, he settled in well and the first time he was taken to the big field with tons of grass was when the bucking, running, rolling occurred. Having so much turnout freedom was a first for him I think so he showed his happiness and ran around like a kid in a candy store! He hasn't done that since, although like I said in an earlier post, he's had lots of ups and downs. At first, he improved a lot (never sound) and we were so hopeful. But that didn't last long and it's been a roller coaster since then until he started laying down all the time. We will ask about Previcox (it's worth another try if the new vet agrees), also ask about Phycox and look into magnetic therapy. Injections didn't work at the time of injury, but I don't know horses well enough to know if it may work now and will ask the vet about that (I need to start a list so I don't forget anything!). Like I said, he isn't bucking and running anymore ~ that really was a one-time, "oh my goodness, I'm in heaven" (my interpretation  moment where I think he was expressing joy after the very restrictive show-barn turnout he's had as long as we've known him (and probably before). It was more than anything just heartwarming to see but hasn't been sustained. To be honest, my daughter won't consider permanently nerve blocking his feet as she says that's pretty controversial. We really do appreciate you throwing out every idea you can think of though as that is one of the things I was looking for when posting here. We do have recent x-rays and they don't show anything. The vet who had them done said we could trailer him a few hours away for an ultrasound, but we decided against it as it wouldn't change the vet's course of treatment and we didn't feel the cost and stress on him justified having a possibly more accurate name for the injury, but wouldn't change anything else. My daughter is going to take pictures of his feet today, showing the rings and condition of his feet. I will definitely post an update about what the vet says. 

Skyseternalangel - I agree 100% about a second opinion. It's touchy bringing someone else in due to the barn's vet being related to the barn owner, but I don't really care at this point. So depending on how comfortable we feel with what their vet says, I will bring someone else in for that second opinion. Pictures and maybe video will be posted later today or tomorrow. 

JCnGrace - I'm so sorry to hear about your mare. You obviously 100% did the right thing given her condition. Where I'm really struggling is that he can't talk to us (what if our animals could talk to us with words, wouldn't that be great!) and have him tell us his opinion and how much pain he's in, etc. and in my mind none of this is clear cut yet. He is so much more stoic than my daughter's mare who complains about everything and is a total diva ~ haha! He's just chill and stoic and was a get-it-done, really, really good jumper and perfect show horse. I know he's giving us clues and we have that to go on. And we have the vet coming to hopefully give us his true opinion after the exam. Thankfully, my daughter and husband are less emotional and far more level-headed than me  My daughter has a way more wise-than-her-years view of death than anyone I know. And again, we WILL try everything my daughter is comfortable with to get his pain under control and hopefully allow him to live a longer life, so maybe I'm getting all worked up prematurely. Actually, I know I am because we haven't even heard what the vet has to say yet. So I will now take a deep breath and calm down 

Despite my ramblings, this isn't about ME ~ it's about doing what's right for her horse and that's why I appreciate everyone's help with this so much. As several of you said, pictures, video and the vet's opinion will help. So I'll be posting all of that soon. Thank you again everyone ❤


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Depending upon where a nerving takes place in the hoof will depend upon where the pain is halted at and how much feeling, sensation is left.
There is full nerving, which I agree is pretty drastic and to me also controversial. All feeling and sensation is gone.
Then there is "partial" nerving which stops the pain and discomfort but allows the horse to know where the hoof is in relation to the ground and _can_ still feel, therefore not necessarily a danger to himself or a rider actually. It is only the painful area that is desensitized.
It is what I've read, only know one person who did this and had good results as a outcome. Her horse is a pasture ornament but not hurting and gave time to enjoy his beauty standing in their pasture backyard pain-free.
I know I've read a partial done allows the horse to actually be ridden and jumped....:shrug:
There are pros and cons to doing something *{as you are}*, some do nothing and exploring options as you are finding out...a journey of fact finding for sure.
Do talk to the vet about partial nerving and learn the facts of what is done, how it can help and how it could harm the horse, _your horse_.
_Get the facts that pertain to *your horse*, his condition and injury,_ not someone else's animal.
Your best resource for factual information and guidance is your vet who knows your horse and you.

 _Explore all your options concerning your horse._ 
Yes, even euthanasia should be discussed so you truly understand what will occur during that period if it becomes necessary.

The best of luck with your boy.
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

horselovingguy - thank you for the partial nerving information. I'm adding that to the list of things to talk to the vet about. An emergency came up yesterday, so he's coming tomorrow. When my daughter got to the barn yesterday, her horse was standing (yay!) but his good front leg was swollen. I guess we'll find out more about that tomorrow. You brought up good points about getting the most valuable information from the vet who is able to see and E valuable the horse (I'm paraphrasing). My daughter agrees and thinks I'm getting more worked up than necessary at this time so...

I thank you all for your valuable suggestions, opinions, ideas, etc. They have been so helpful and given us ideas to ask the vet about. I'll be posting again after we talk to the vet, but at my daughter's request (because I'm getting so upset ~ 100% from me not knowing a ton about horses, but loving hers and in my mind preparing for the worst, NOT because of anyone's helpful posts) I'm going to stop posting for right now other than an update.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Interesting that x-rays are clean..

I apologize, I thought you already had a few opinions.

A vet I know has been promoting Phycox as their new herbal pain/anti inflammatory/joint supplement and after seeing a MASSIVE difference I would definitely love to try it myself (don't have a need atm, knock on wood!)

Unfortunately so much depends on what the specific issue(s) are that it's hard to say for sure, but yes I just threw stuff out. Magnets are cheap but they are a long term investment and I've seen good results with them. Actually have them for 2 of my own horses. (Magnets for one and ceramic Back on Track bell boots for the other).

FWIW, I keep on forgetting you aren't the "horsie" one, you do sound very knowledgeable  Take a big breath and see what the vet says, he could have many good years left with a little extra TLC!


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## jla (Jun 24, 2016)

Yogiwick - no need at all to apologize ~ I greatly appreciate every single one of your posts and the information in them. I just wanted to let everyone know my daughter's wishes and why I was going to back off from checking for new answers every half hour  It's definitely not due to anyone's posts, input, suggestions, etc. I was getting worked up (my personality regarding animals and my kids) and my daughter is a very even-tempered, mostly low emotions person. It was driving her crazy that I was so emotional about this whole thing! I'm really glad you posted again about Phycox because I'm going to look into that. I didn't realize it was OTC.

We had the vet look at the horse yesterday and this is what he said: He agreed with everyone here about why the horse is laying down so much. The horse is at different levels of lame in all four legs due to trying to shift weight off his left front leg. The vet said the left front leg is still very bad after watching him trot. He thinks there are things we can try that have been successful with other horses and doesn't think the horse is in so much pain that we need to put him down. There was a little too much focus on the navicular, which has never been the problem; the soft tissue injury is when the lameness started, so we redirected. 
The treatment plan for now: Stall rest for an undetermined amount of time (my daughter asked if she can hand walk him for 15 minutes per day and the vet said she could let him graze every day, but walking needs to be minimized), Previcox, Vetflex, acupuncture and asking the farrier on Tuesday if a different kind of shoe with more build up in the back of the foot may help. Shock wave treatment was offered, but we decided to hold off on that to see if the other stuff works. Osphos was offered, but again, the navicular has never been a problem so we declined. 
What we came away with, other than a treatment plan, is that the previous vet should have let us know that the horse needed to be on stall rest for more than a month and not allowed to run or even walk too much. We wonder if he'd be sound by now if we'd been more conservative and kept him on stall rest. But we can't change history, so here we go with the new, hopefully successful treatments


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Great!


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i will say privacox is an amazing pain and swelling relief. use it on our 31 year old. he has uvitus and some arthits. 1/4th of a pill a day has turned him into a new horse. his eye is better and he moves pain free. no more random limping. he is quite spunky too. also helped with my mare's "navicular" issues.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Great news! Do keep us updated. I hope he does well with the new game plan!


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