# Dealing with EPM...Scared out of my MIND! *update* Sadly, horse euthanized.



## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

I have a 13 yr old TB gelding. About three months ago he dropped weight drastically. We started adding things to his grain to help with this (tried Purina Cool Calories, then went to shredded beat pulp, corn oil and calf manna). We also upped his hay intake. Nothing seemed to help. He started to shed out his winter coat and was bald underneath of it. He also around the same time started having trouble urinating (would pee frequently and in very short spurts). I freaked and called our vet. Blood was drawn, tests run and it was determined that he had a severe infection. This infection was causing him to be anemic, have low enzyme levels, his lack of new hair growth, his weight loss...etc. He was given a massive dose of penicillin and put oral antibiotics for two weeks. In this two weeks he started to put some weight back on, it wasn't much but it was noticeable. I thought we were doing good! Not two days after the end of the antibiotics things started going downhill. He was continually weak to the point of needing the barn to lean on to stand. He started hanging his head low, his bottom lip would droop and the weight started coming back off (yes, it was noticeable in such short amount of time). He was then put on an injectable vitamin complex to help with his anemia and enzyme levels (this was thought to be the reason he was so weak). A couple days later he started to stumble and went off his feed almost completely. He was then diagnosed with EPM.
I had heard of this disease in passing only. I started to do my research. What I have read about it terrifies me. His medication had to be ordered (a four day wait) and he has now been on it for three days (tonight will be his fourth dose). I have been told that it will take weeks for him to start to show improvement. The problem is that he is going downhill so fast. He is now completely lame in his back left leg. He practically drags it around. His head is never raised more then a foot and a half off the ground. We have had to move his hay and grain to the ground just to get him to take few bites. He is maybe taking in a quarter of the grain that he was originally and maybe a bead of hay a day. (Charlie is big horse, standing at 16.3, this isnt enough feed to sustain him). He is in so much pain (which he is on banamine for) that he grunts when he walks and refuses to back at all. His weight keeps dropping and he looks like a skeleton. I noticed tonight that he would stand with his head down and his mouth gaping open.
The only bright spot in this is that he hasnt gone down on us yet. He remains standing through it all even with the stumbling and pain that he is in. I have read the statistics for recovery of this disease. 80% recover with a 30% relapse rate. What I want to know, I can't seem to find...How far downhill are they before treatment doesnt work? What % of recovered horses recover enough to be sound for work? How will I know when he is to far gone to keep attempting to treat him? Is there anything that I can mix and basically force feed him (yes with a syringe if i have to) to make sure he is taking in nutrients? 
I have never had to deal with ANY type of issues that would make me have to consider euthanizing one of my horses. I suppose you could consider me lucky so far. This is frustrating to the point of sickness. Seeing him as thin and in pain as he is while my other horses are fat and happy is probably the most painful thing in the world for me. I feel so helpless. He looks at me for help and I can't seem to give him anymore then I already am.

Any tips, advice....ANYTHING would be helpful right now. He is on banamine for the pain and ponazuril for the EPM. I bought a jar of Su-per DMSO gel that I had planned to rub on his legs but Im not sure if that is safe to use while hes on the other meds. My vet, although amazing at treating horses, isnt the type of person to stand and answer questions for me.


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Im so so sorry! I have a friend who just last week put her daughters pony club horse down because of EPM, he was diagnosed a year ago right after pony vlup champion ships in California and they did great and it hit the day after they got home. Hugs to you and your horse! I have never delt with EPM personally but I hope you figure something out that works for both you and your horse! You will be in my thoughts!


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## foreveramber (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi there,
I'm so sorry to hear about your situation, and I'm sorry I can't give you any of the answers you're looking for. But when I read this I just had to reply and say that while I know this must be the most difficult thing ever, you shouldn't feel guilty for not being able to do more. You seem to be doing everything you can and I'm sure your horse appreciates it. 
I was almost in tears reading this post, and then when I got to the part where you said your vet "isn't the type of person to stand and answer questions" I felt ill. A good vet should answer ANY question no matter how silly or trivial they think it is (unless they have an emergency to go to or something of course). I think that in order to get peace of mind for yourself and possibly some more answers you should get a second opinion from another vet. I wish we lived in the same area so I could recommend my vet to you, because she's truly incredible. Ask around for recommendations of a good vet who will answer your questions. In the meantime I wish you all the luck in the world and will be praying for you and your horse!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm so sorry you & he are going through this. It sounds like he got hit pretty hard with it.
The meds can stop further nerve damage but usually what damage is already done is not reversed though many horses learn to compensate. Is being hospitalized an option? They could provide IV nutrition for the short term.
You need to write down any & all questions you have & demand some answers from your vet. If he doesn't like to talk that's too bad for him because he has to. You are not going to be able to make any informed decisions until then.
I'll keep hoping for the best outcome possible. Again I'm sorry.


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you guys for the prayers...honestly at this point i'll take whatever I can get. People keep telling me "hes only been on the meds for three days, give it time" they dont have to see him every hour. they dont see the changes in him as things get worse. 
honestly, I havent even spoken to my vet personally since the initial diagnosis of EPM and to give him the contact info of my horses previous owner and vets. All my questions have gone through the nurses at the vets office. Most of my questions they cant seem to answer. I asked one of them what she knew about EPM and her reply was, "nothing, except that its bad". All of my medication orders or other questions have gone through the nurse who has to contact my vet and then the nurse gets back to me. I understand the vet is busy. We only have two equine vets in my town and they are busy busy guys.


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

I'm so sorry . I'll be sending healing vibes your way.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

What test was used to diagnose the EPM? I'm curious because many times things are diagnosed as EPM that are not EPM. 



> .How far downhill are they before treatment doesnt work? What % of recovered horses recover enough to be sound for work? How will I know when he is to far gone to keep attempting to treat him?


Its hard to find answers to these questions because they are very individual to the horse. My horse was actually falling down when he had it as a 4 year old, but he recovered and is now a good trail horses. Some horses don't get near as bad and never recover to riding soundness. As to % that recover - I really don't know. I believe I read somewhere that a medication for EPM is considered successful as long as 60 or 70% of the test horses improve 2 grade scales. I'm saying this off of memory - so I'm not 100% positive, but it was something like that. 

As to when not to attempt treatment - again, that is very individual decision and no one should make you feel bad for either trying treatment or putting him down. Its extremely hard and I'm so sorry you are facing this right now. Originally I said I would not treat Toby again if he came down with it again, but when faced with a few symptoms I had worried might be it I was questioning that decision. I don't think I know what I will do again if I'm ever faced with it until it happens.

My vet did have my horse on a DMSO IV a couple times a day when he was first diagnosed and it seemed to help him for a bit afterwards and didn't impact the effectiveness of the medication. I don't know about a rub for the legs though. 

You may want to look into giving a cup of corn oil after administering the meds (mix in a tasty feed) as it is believed the oil administered right after the ponazuril helps it be absorbed better. 

Also look into therapeutic levels of vitamin E. I believe it was 18000 IU per day - but I would have to double check that number. Vitamin E helps with the nerve regeneration and helps through the recovery. Just make sure its pure Vitamin E and not mixed with selenium or something else that could be overdosed. Your vet should be able to get it for you.

Good luck to you and your horse. EPM is a hard and trying disease and again, I'm so sorry.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I had a gelding treated for EPM about 5 years ago. He was given 4 doses of an DMSO IV treatment that took a few days to get in from another vet in Kentucky. The important thing was starting treatment asap because from what I was told, horses doesn't fully recover from EPM. Whatever damage is done, is done. There is no "reverse" for the disease, only an "off button" so technically there isn't a cure for the damage that's been done.

Cat says that her horse, to the point of falling down, recovered enough to be a trail horse. That is positive thinking.

My horse wasn't to the point of falling down, but it's like he didn't know where to place his back feet. He would stand with one foot ontop of the other and not even realize that it was there and trip when he'd go to move forward. We did the bloodtest and he came back positive for EPM, but there are also "false-positives" to where the horse may carry EPM, but not show any outward symptoms. My vet said many horses if you tested them, EPM would show up in their bloodwork due to having been exposed to it before. The most common way of getting it she said was raccoon feces. (disgusting creatures!)

My horse was never to the point of where yours was. I can't even say for sure that he had EPM, but he was treated with the DMSO IV. 4 times over the course of 12 days. He recovered well..

Depending on the severity of your horse...Which it sounds like it's pretty severe...You'll be able to tell what's best for them. If Charlie were my horse, I'd have to realize when the point of no return was and do what's best for the horse. The pain that he's going through must be unbearable. Being off his feed for so long and depending on the amount of water he's drinking is major. If he's not drinking enough water, his kidneys are going to fail. Has your vet down a renal panel on him to check his kidney output? I'd definitely look into that because if your horse is going through acute kidney failure, no amount of EPM treatment will help him.

There comes a point when we have to look at our horse and decide what's best for him, while pushing our selfish desires aside. I told myself if my horse goes off his feed, if he's not improving my X date, then I would make the call and put him to sleep. 

I'm so sorry that your going through this. It's difficult.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Actually its opossum rather than raccoon that spreads it.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ I completely forgot about those disgusting creatures too. Ick.


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## DRichmond (Mar 13, 2012)

Can you get your hands on colloidal silver and dose him in mash several times a day? 

This is only my opinion,

If he's not on an IV and at a clinic from the description you gave of his condition, and if you aren't ready to give up and you don't think he is, see if you can get a sling for him to set up at home. Your vet should know where you can get one to use, if not we can hopefully put out the 911 for one. There are rescues and other orgs that have slings on loan. 

Sounds like the quicker you can act the better from what you're describing. I would get gobs of Pedialyte and use it along with colloidal silver as the liquid in a senior feed mash with bran (no corn oil), oats if he'll eat them. No more A/Bs. 

More thoughts coming.


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

honestly I couldnt tell you which test he ran to diagnose charlie. I do know that they can come back with a false positive and he mentioned that when he originally told me about the diagnosis but said the he was sure about this EPM diagnosis. At the time I didnt have any research under my belt. 
I got a wild hair to check out youtube..people post videos of their poor babies with this disease..yes, i know its for others to see what to look for, but i can't imagine video taping my Charlie in the condition he is in...it just seems degrading to me. Weird huh? One thing I did notice though was all those horses with EPM still had their weight on...Charlie is almost skin and bones now.
he is on a vitamin B complex injection at the moment because of the amemia and enzyme levels being so low. I will question my vet, or rather the nurses apparently, about the vitamin E. I hate that its the weekend. 

Why can't my vet just sleep in my barn until this is over????? :wink:


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

hes not hospitalized. he is still out on pasture. I tried putting him on "stall rest" and he refused ALL food and water. He is currently on Purina Strategy grain with calf manna and corn oil added per vet instructions

I know stress can aggravate the EPM issue and Charlies best friend is my mare...when I separate them he gets extremely agitated. I want to avoid that at all costs. If that means he is calmer on pasture then locked in the barn, i'll keep it that way. Our pasture isnt huge by any means anyway. Since this began they have all been locked in a 1/2 acre section attached to the barn so I can keep him close.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

What is his water intake? Is he still drinking?

My gelding never dropped his weight. So this is a big concern for Charlie. I'd suggest calling your vet and asking if a renal panel was done on him? Especially with him being anemic, that's a real worry for me. The kidneys send messages to the bone marrow to produce more red blood cells. If the kidneys aren't working properly, you can end up with anemia...which it seems like you are going through.

I wonder if he has a few different things going on?

Poor Charlie. And I'm with you, I would absolutely never record my horse with a horrible disease. It is completely degrading. (But also necessary for us to learn from) I personally, wouldn't do it.


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

yes, he is drinking. he doesnt move around much but I have personally seen his head in the water tank. He WILL NOT drink from his bucket in the stall though. The first few days of this we were keeping him in at night and he would refuse to eat or drink. he would leave his stall in the morning and chug from the big water tank as soon as he is out. Like i said, if he is eating and drinking and staying calmer out there then thats where he will stay. 
And honestly, if its getting closer to where I would have to make the big decision to put him down, he can spend as much time with Skye as he wants. I wont take that away from him....or her

Oh jesus...there go the tears


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

DRichmond said:


> C a senior feed mash with bran (no corn oil), oats if he'll eat them.


Corn oil wasn't suggested to put weight on but for the fact it has been shown to help absorption of the specific med her vet has her using.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

> Oh jesus...there go the tears


... :hug: ...


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

actually the corn oil was originally suggested by my vet to help him put weight on...along with the calf manna that he is on. once we got the epm diagnosis i just kept him on it because of the absorption of the meds

so i guess keeping him on it was my idea..not my vets. since the epm diagnosis my vet hasnt said a word about how to keep him eating or get nutrients into him

the more i talk about this the more ****ed off i get at my vet


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

My haflinger didn't necessarily have weight loss but did have a decent amount of muscle atrophy. 

Normally: 










When he had EPM and the other side was actually worse. I was so horrified by it I never did take a picture:










I kept mine out in the pasture when he was doing better and a dry lot/corral when he was bad. When he was at the clinic and actually stalled he was worse off than when he was allowed to roam. I did keep him separated for several weeks from the other horses so he could move with them in site but not be driven by them.


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

do you guys have any ideas of something i can mix up and suck into a syringe and force down him...he takes things orally very well..

ill force feed him if i have to...every two hours like a freakin kitten


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Wonder how well alfalfa pellets would break up in a blender and then maybe use a bit of apple juice to make it more liquidy?


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

Cat said:


> Wonder how well alfalfa pellets would break up in a blender and then maybe use a bit of apple juice to make it more liquidy?


u think I could try that with his grain and maybe use Pedia Lyte?


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I'd find out what test was used to determine EPM. There are some more accurate tests now compared to when my boy was tested. If he used the old Western Blot I would ask for one of the newer ones.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Skyebird03 said:


> u think I could try that with his grain and maybe use Pedia Lyte?



It would be worth a shot.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Warm Bran Mash or Soaked Beet Pulp with applesauce mixed in? Or with crushed up peppermints?

A probiotic is also recommended. Prozyme is a good supplement that has digestive enzymes and probiotics in it to help restore the good bacteria in the gut that's been cleared out by all the rounds of antibiotics. 

I don't know if yogurt is okay for horses? But that might be something that you could mix in with some food too.

"The EPM horse has special needs for nutrition. They should have very little alfalfa, and their diet should be rich in bermuda, orchard grass mix, and timothy hay. They also need help to boost their immune system, and we have recommended additional Colostrum or Beta Blend with Colostrum and Beta Glucan to help those horses, along with generous doses of EPM−Zyme which has anthelmetic herbs and herbs rich in naturally occurring iron. Our other clients have also treated their EPM horses by adding Vitamin E (from 1,000 to 8,000 IU per day) and vitamin C (1,000 − 5,000 mg per day). While others have added Folic Acid to their diets to help counteract the anemia caused by drugs."
http://www.earthsongranch.com/catalog/epm.pdf

Also, what kind of grain are you feeding?


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cat said:


> Wonder how well alfalfa pellets would break up in a blender and then maybe use a bit of apple juice to make it more liquidy?


I'm not sure if alfalfa pellets would be best. In many articles is says to limit their alfalfa intake and replace it with bermunda, orchard or timothy hay. So maybe timothy pellets instead of alfalfa?


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> I'm not sure if alfalfa pellets out be best. If many articles is says to limit their alfalfa intake and replace it with bermunda, orchard or timothy hay. So maybe timothy pellets instead of alfalfa?



i've honestly never seen timothy pellets at any of the farm stores in town...


HOWEVER....I am getting out the blender. I'll use his grain until I can get to the store in the morning to see what I can pick up. Atleast he'll have something in him


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Skyebird03 said:


> i've honestly never seen timothy pellets at any of the farm stores in town...
> 
> 
> HOWEVER....I am getting out the blender. I'll use his grain until I can get to the store in the morning to see what I can pick up. Atleast he'll have something in him


Do you have a Tractor Supply Company? The one where I live carries Timothy Pellets.
Standlee Hay Certified Premium Timothy Grass Hay Pellets, 40 lb. - 5121819 | Tractor Supply Company

Maybe Rice Bran? I forgot about that...


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Do you have a Tractor Supply Company? The one where I live carries Timothy Pellets.
> Standlee Hay Certified Premium Timothy Grass Hay Pellets, 40 lb. - 5121819 | Tractor Supply Company
> 
> Maybe Rice Bran? I forgot about that...



We dont have a TSC..the closest one is about an hour and half away. I know theres a store in town that sells Rice Bran though.


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## DRichmond (Mar 13, 2012)

There are a few articles about colloidal silver and EPM online but I picked one out for you if you'd like to take a look into it, it's the last article on the page:

Response to "Re: End of the Line -- Need Advice"

I used CS for a senior mare who had EPM, there was some irreversible damage but otherwise within 2 months she was good to go - she was dosed for 10 days the first month, and another 10 days the second month. It can be injected intravenously too.

Other helps for EPM are dandelion extract and garlic powder, along with microbials and/or probiotics as CLAPorte432 mentioned. And if he won't eat, you can try adding molasses to the mash 

I personally wouldn't touch that ponazuril. Not with those side effects, uh uh.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

CLaPorte432 said:


> I'm not sure if alfalfa pellets would be best. In many articles is says to limit their alfalfa intake and replace it with bermunda, orchard or timothy hay. So maybe timothy pellets instead of alfalfa?


I've not seen that stated in anything I would consider a reputable source. What are your sources for this information? In fact, I believe one of the newer treatments is dosed using alfalfa pelleted base.

We used alfalfa because the higher protein of alfalfa was considered needed to help build the atrophied muscles and it seemed to work.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Do you have a pet store around you? They sell timothy pellets for bunnies that might work. I used to work at a pet store and a 25# bad was under $9 for the generic brand.


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

DRichmond said:


> Other helps for EPM are dandelion extract and garlic powder, along with microbials and/or probiotics as CLAPorte432 mentioned. And if he won't eat, you can try adding molasses to the mash


We have tried the molasses..it helped for a couple days but he stopped even looking at that a couple days ago. we were even adding it to his hay which helped for a while but, not anymore


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Do you have a pet store around you? They sell timothy pellets for bunnies that might work. I used to work at a pet store and a 25# bad was under $9 for the generic brand.



we do have a pet store. i didnt think of there. i think walmart might even sell them then. i know they had little timothy hay bales for bunnies..they might have pellets


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

DRichmond said:


> There are a few articles about colloidal silver and EPM online but I picked one out for you if you'd like to take a look into it, it's the last article on the page:


Colloidal silver is nothing more than a modern day snake oil. 

Personally I'd stick with the products that are scientifically proven.


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## DRichmond (Mar 13, 2012)

CAT, I've used CS successfully for a variety of different vetting purposes: infections, abscesses, fistulous withers, a mare with EPM, wound spray, and on and on - lots of horses are alive and well due to "snake oil" LOL. 

Personally I stick with what works  But that's just me.


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

wow..things went downhill so fast tonight. I spent over an hour grinding up his feed in hopes of making sure he got plenty in him tonight. When I finally went out there, armed with my bucket of mush, a syringe and his meds; the other two horses were already in the barn but Charlie was no where to be seen. I found him in a corner on the other side of the barn, all by himself. I finally got him up to the barn door and just when he walked through, everything gave out and hit the floor. He scrapped up his side on the barn door quite a bit. He tried standing and fell back down. I tried helping him and he fell back down. After about fifteen minutes of this, i was pretty well freaked. Between myself and Charlies willpower we finally got him standing but he had to use the side of the barn for support. I made the decision right then to put him down. With everything we had already gone through, I felt that I couldnt allow him to keep hurting like this.
I called my vet, got the on call doc who hasnt been dealing with our situation. I told him (while bawling loudly) what was going on and that I needed to have my horse euthanized. He told me it wasnt important and to wait until Monday.

Now, do I assume this guy is an ******* and a lazy one at that or do you think he was giving me time to think this through so I could be sure?


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## DRichmond (Mar 13, 2012)

Is there another vet you can call to come out asap?

If he's down, hopefully he is in an open enough area where he won't be further injuring himself. If he's able to stand and walk a little, if you can manage to lead him to as open an area as possible to prevent further injury. I don't know what kind of weather you're having, but if it's not wet or raining he is safer outside if there's any way to get him out into a very open area with soft ground until a vet can get there.

Can someone stay with him as much as possible until then? If he is down and unable to get to his feet at all, and you can't get a vet out for the next 24 hours or so, he can suffocate if he isn't turned. You can roll him over every couple of hours to keep him from suffocating. If you have an extra hand, just gently turn him over using soft ropes, and one person can do it if you have the physical ability and work gently. 

You can also keep a soft blanket over him to prevent shock if you think it's suitable. 

If you've ever given any IM injections, if a vet will let you have some xylazine to help keep him calm if he's down and panicking to get to his feet and continuing to fall, that may be a good idea. 

Just remember to breathe and keep your head as much as possible, hang in there.


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

Skyebird, I am so very sorry for your situation. I have nothing to offer you and your boy but my sympathies, prayers and a virtual :hug:.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm so sorry & shocked that this is happening to you. Call that vet back & scream. Call your regular vet at home. Call any & all vets. Don't take no for an answer.
Where do you live where there are no on call vets?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Skyebird03 said:


> to
> 
> Now, do I assume this guy is an ******* and a lazy one at that or do you think he was giving me time to think this through so I could be sure?


The former.


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## horseluver250 (Oct 28, 2009)

Really sorry for what you are going through. We have a mule here that has EPM so I know what you are going through. She has been treated for 5 weeks with marquis and hasn't show a whole lot of improvement. Our vet has told us the damage to her brain is likely permanent. I have no idea how long she has had epm, we bought her off a broker who bought her at an auction. 
She is still circling occationally and falls over when she falls asleep. The only improvement that she has made is that she has put on some weight and muscle so she is able to stand up. She has no interest in grain, she will occationally eat a bite or two if I hold a bucket for her. She grazes just fine and wanders around the field. Luckily our fences are safe as she falls on them quite a bit. 
There is a video of Sarah on this thread trying to get up http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/nuerological-spinal-damage-need-some-help-115988/. We had to help her several times to get up. She is getting up now on the first try, so that is improvement. 
The vet was probably trying to get you to think things through. Sarah had injured hind leg badly a couple weeks ago falling on it, called the vet and he just told us to give her bute and keep her comfortable. I think I would have put her down that day if he did come out. Her leg was better the next day and she was putting weight on it. Try to keep your boy as comfortable as possible and in the safest spot possible. We do not put Sarah in the barn, she gets stuck against the walls if she falls over and can't get up. Our fence has enough give that if she falls, it just bows out. 
I wish I could be more help to you, but I think I am the same situation as you wondering what to do.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

oh honey  I'm sending you peaceful thoughts via internet  my dear you are handling this well. You have realized that enough is enough, he knows you love him and he knows you have tried everything. I'll keep you in my prayers <3 also, here is my favorite Bible verse! It helps me with a lot of stuff---- Joshua 1:9 "Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous, do not be terrified, do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you may go"


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

just updating everyone. 

things continued to slide downhill through the night. we got our vet out early this morning and he recommended euthanizing Charlie. I felt, with as bad as thing were getting that it wasnt fair for him to suffer anymore.

Thank you to everyone who responded to this and tried to give helpful advice. I pray that there is a cure or even just a better treatment found for this disease in the future. 

No one should have to see their horse decline the way I did. 

Thank you all again


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

My sympathies are with you Skyebird. RIP Charlie.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm so sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I'm just getting back to read this. I'm so sorry skyebird, what horrible news.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Skyebird03 said:


> just updating everyone.
> 
> things continued to slide downhill through the night. we got our vet out early this morning and he recommended euthanizing Charlie. I felt, with as bad as thing were getting that it wasnt fair for him to suffer anymore.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry. You could not have done more.
You're right, no one should have to watch that & when you most needed help you were ignored. Perhaps there is still something you can do.

Check out December 2011, first entry under vets
State of Illinois : Department of Financial and Professional Regulation


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## aqharyder (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm just now reading this thread. I'm so sorry Skyebird. Thoughts and prayers going out to you.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

oh dear I knew I shouldn't have started reading this thread at work. Skyebird so sorry for your beloved Charlie. My thoughts and prayers are with you. Now I gotta go fix my makeup.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

I'm so sorry to hear this sad news about your beloved Charlie. I hope it is some comfort to you to know that you did everything you could and took wonderful care of him. He knew he was loved.

The vet that told you it could wait until Monday...it wasn't important? Frying is too good for him. I'd be filing a complaint with the state board and/or having a CTJ meeting with the head vet of that practice.


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

So sorry to hear about your horse. I just can't imagine the pain you must have gone through but I am sure you suffered a great deal. Prayers for your comfort heading your way. Again, so sorry!!


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

So sorry about the loss of your horse . You did the right thing though. although it really must have hurt for you to see him decline like that.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your loss.. what a difficult thing to watch happen. Big hugs <3


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

Skybird03, I am so very sorry you had to endure watching your Charlie decline so very fast. You did do everything possible for him. Your love of him was very evident and also brought tears to my eyes reading your updates.

There is a place many like to call it "Rainbow Bridge" where our 4-legged friends go when their lifetime ends to leave us behind. I have one who is there to greet Charlie. Gone, but never forgotten. "Over Rainbow Bridge" our beloved 4-legged friends are running and frolicking healthy and free of all pain and suffering. As is your Charlie!!

:hug::hug::hug:


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

So sorry for you & your horse.That was horrible of that vet to say to wait until Monday. RIP Charlie


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

*Doing a bit better...you guys helped alot!*

Thank you all! Just reading all of you condolences brings tears to my eyes.

We buried Charlie here at home. I couldnt stand the thought of letting strangers come and take him away. 

I will always be left with questions about this. Since we really only owned Charlie for a short time I'm not even sure if he already had EPM or if he contracted it at our place. If he did get it here then I worry about whether or not it was in the hay or somewhere else. If it was in the hay, was it in my big bales or my little ones? And even then, we dont know if it would have been in the hay before we bought it or if it got there after we bought it. The question really make my head hurt.

If any of you get back to this, I'm considering having my other two horses tested. Let me know what you think of this. Am i just being paranoid considering what happened or is it justified?

Thank you all again! I really do appreciate the advice and the sympathy.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Skyebird, I'm so sorry to read all this about your horse and the insensitive vet. I'd have him over slow coals just for principal. As for the other horses, if they aren't showing neuro symptoms, I probably wouldn't test them because the tests only really show if the horse has been exposed. I would be cleaning the feeding areas and looking for signs of racoons, possums, skunks, feral cats and setting traps for them. EPM is most frequently transmitted because an animal carrier got into the feed and left droppings in it. Whether that's hay, grain or in their feed bins, I'd be going on a major cleaning frenzy and searching for the clues to get rid of the source. 

Here's a link to an article that explains the transmission of EPM pretty well: http://www.wholehorsevetservices.com/pdfs/UnderstandingEPM.pdf


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## Spirit Lifter (Apr 23, 2012)

Skybird03.....I'm so sorry about what you and Charlie had to go through. Just UNIMAGINABLE. Thanks for posting. I never heard of that disease before. Now I know. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and Charlie. What a heartbreaking story to hear so I can imagine it was even worse for you to live it.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

I don't think you are paranoid at all in wanting to have your other horses tested for EPM. In having the testing done on your other horses you might have a better idea on where Charlie might have ingested Opossum feces. If none of your other horses have shown symptoms before Charlie came to live with you then it is a good possibility he was exposed in his previous environment.

No doubt in your research you found that Opossums have a parasite that passes through their digestive tract to the end at their feces and that parasite when ingested by horses goes to the horses brain. Which causes the neurological symptoms.

My husband and I live in a very rural, out-in-the-country environment. I consider opossums to be a nuisiance to the health of my now one horse and the others I had here at one time. I have no qualms about ending the life of an opossum.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

Possums are the only animal that I will aim at while driving.


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## Ne0n Zero (Dec 25, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear this.. A lady I used to board with in Kentucky (who I no longer associate with for undisclosed reasons) had to put a horse down because of EPM. :/


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

What a hard thing to go through, and what a shock, first to have this happen, to be so sudden, and finally to have so little support from your vet. You should not have had to go through all of that, and neither should Charlie. 

Charlie was a lucky horse to have you by his side, trying your hardest to help him and making the terrible choices we who love horses have to make. Every horse should be so fortunate. 

I'm so sorry... Take care of yourself, and give yourself a warm hug from me and Ahab. Probably a hot chocolate, a good book, and a warm bed wouldn't hurt either....


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

R. I. P. Charlie. I'm sorry for your loss Hun. So sad and senseless


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

Thank you all again!

We used to see opossums in the barn every now and then. A **** here and there. At one time we even had a small family of skunks (thankfully they moved on quick!). But as soon as we noticed any of these critters my husband would go out and "dispose" of them. We havent seen a raccoon or oppossom in atleast a year and a half. We have even had a live trap set up in the barn for about the last eight months (it was originally set to catch a cat). I will definitely be doing some barn cleaning.
I used to be to soft hearted to run these animals over on the highway or be around when they were taken care of on our property. HOWEVER...now, considering everything we went through with Charlie, I will have no problems going out to the barn with my .22 and pulling the trigger. I will most likely do some off roading to hit an opossum with the truck now.

-Opossums beware..I'll be the death of you all-


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Ia m so very sorry for your loss. Rest well Charlie.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

I am so sorry for your loss (((huggs)))


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