# Horse Run In Shavings or Not?



## omarroll71 (Aug 14, 2016)

Hello,
I have a horse run in for my two draft horses and I use rubber mats. Does anyone use shavings in run in on top of rubber mats? If not, what other material? 

If so, how do you keep them from kicking the shavings out too much? Thanks for any advise or suggestions.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

I don't use bedding in run in shelter for my horses. It's bare mats horses never poop or pee in shelter. So I'll never bed it, they'll just drag bedding outside anyway.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

If you want to bed it to absorb waste, pellets might be better. They're heavier, to begin with, and if you want to break them down a bit and soften them up, you can add some water to them -- which, again, will add a bit of weight.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

I will say - as soon as you add any sort of bedding into a run-in, horses will take the extra time to walk all the way back to their run-in to do their business.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Whether you choose to bed your run-in or not is up to you...


An easy way to keep shavings, pellets of what ever it is contained inside is to place a board at the opening directly on the ground.
Place that board on edge so it makes a lip...
The horses after a time or two bumping it will just naturally step over it not bumping it.
You can do that inside a barn with deeply bedded stalls too...keeps the shavings in to a larger degree of less waste.
I would use a 6" wide board...probably a 2"x6" if it was me....especially since outside it will sink a bit in time into the dirt...it is _not_ a high step-out for the horse to manage. Pressure treated lumber to withstand weather conditions changing...
Remember lumber "finished" is smaller than what you are told you purchased so not 6" height a board shall it be either. If you are thinking of a 2"x4"...don't bother as the shavings will go right over the top..

:runninghorse2:...


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## omarroll71 (Aug 14, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> Whether you choose to bed your run-in or not is up to you...
> 
> 
> An easy way to keep shavings, pellets of what ever it is contained inside is to place a board at the opening directly on the ground.
> ...


Thank you for your response. My run in has a 4 x 6 pressure treated threshold. The run in was made using 6 x 6 pressure treated so I opted for 4 x 6 threshold so I can add gates if I wanted to later on. The problem is the keep tracking lots of dirt inside even with that 🤷🏻*♀


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## omarroll71 (Aug 14, 2016)

Thank you everyone. They already like to urinate inside the run in. I can’t understand why they will step out to poop but not urinate, lol. One of the reasons why I want to give them something nice to lay is cause at night they lay down and rest and they used to do it inside the run in when it was just sand. I added the mats cause vet wanted me to do so cause one of them keeps getting bad thrush. Now they sleep outside of run in cause is also sand but vet wants me to make it a dry lot, so I’m debating on what to do.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes, I use wood pellets. But I don't have your typical run-in. Mine is basically two stalls converted into one 24' x 12' space with two 4' wide openings that lead out into the paddock. Some pellets find their way out, but not much. I hardly put anything in there in the summer. I might add a bag each week. Pellets aren't as fluffy as shavings and don't tend to get kicked around as easily. I only have enough down to absorb pee and prevent it from splashing up on their legs. Also for comfort since I have concrete under the mats. They like to come in there to get away from flies and weather.


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

My 15x33' run-in shed is just cushion sand. Unless I added some sort of foot board, the horses would just track the shavings out.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

In the winter I will bed my big run-in with straw. It gives the horses some extra bedding/warmth as that is where they like to hang out when the weather gets really cold. 

In the summer, my run-ins are just dirt and no bedding. They don't generally go to the bathroom in the shed. 

It is completely up to you if you bed it down - and you can try a couple different products to see what works best for you. I feel that if you live in a wet climate, the shavings would just get trampled down and not really do much, but it is trial and error.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm not sure what your vet is expecting you to do honestly.
You live in Florida, as do I...
Everything is sand based and a sacrifice paddock makes itself in no time once the horses walk around in/on it, eat from the grass area for a length of time if not a abundant area and grass rested for regrowth adequately needed..
Thrush is caused from a bacteria in the ground that then finds a perfect host in your horses hoof...
If outside your run-in is sand, the paddock they are in is sand...what does the vet want different as a dry lot?
They are in a dry lot unless your paddock area is low ground and remains wet and swampish...then that is different.
If your ground is low and "wet", then start bringing in the truckloads of dirt/sand and clean-fill to raise it up providing, _providing_ you are permitted to do so and not in a environmentally protected area.

If your horse suffers from debilitating thrush...then has your vet prescribed systemic antibiotics administered to kill the bacteria causing the problem while you also treat the ground..with what I am unsure.
Your vet should also have some idea of what might be allowable to help the ground, and if your horse is deficient in something in their diet that is a contributing factor in not being able to resist or fight off the bacterial infection...
Your farrier should also be a great insight to help you with this problem...

I would suggest a call into your counties agricultural extension department for some advice on what you can use, is safe to use that will not harm the aquifer nor wildlife in the area..
A trusted farm supply store might have someone on staff versed in organic matters about bacteria control too...
The remedy could be very simple or complex or something in between...but having some guidance of what, where and how to do is very important.
:runninghorse2:...


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## omarroll71 (Aug 14, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> I'm not sure what your vet is expecting you to do honestly.
> You live in Florida, as do I...
> Everything is sand based and a sacrifice paddock makes itself in no time once the horses walk around in/on it, eat from the grass area for a length of time if not a abundant area and grass rested for regrowth adequately needed..
> Thrush is caused from a bacteria in the ground that then finds a perfect host in your horses hoof...
> ...


 Thanks for your response. First and foremost, what are systemic antibiotics? My land is high and dry and all sand. The area where I built the 16’ x 30’ run in is also all sand hence the reason they sleep right outside of it but what I’ve notice when it rains a lot it gets kind of mushy until the sun comes out and dries it up, that is why vet said she would like for me to make it a dry lot using concrete fines outside of the run in. I lock them up at night in that area where the run in is, so if it has rained a lot and I mean a lot as you should know what I mean since you live in Florida. That’s when there’s a problem in that area. But when you mention systemic antibiotics I wonder what it is so I can ask her. She comes out every time the farrier comes every 5 wks since this thrush has become severe and she has to sedate him due to him being 18 hands and he will not let anyone mess with his feet now. If there is something that like that which can actually help cure him faster I can’t understand why she hasn’t done it yet, my poor guy has been going through this for a long time now and all she keeps saying is that if I don’t put him on a dry lot or stalled he is only going to keep getting worse and worse. She told me to use the cow mastitis stuff and nothing has worked. Thanks again.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Systemic antibiotics are antibiotics that are administered through being fed or injected.
They treat all parts of the body as they go "systemically"

Has your vet ever done a culture of that thrush?
Seriously, have a culture grown so then you know specific what drug is needed to combat and kill the organism stopping the cycle. It is not cheap but if you are trying everything you may not have the right combination of drugs to kill...had this with my dog having a never-ending ear infection.. Culture done and we found what we were using was not for that strain of bacteria, we added another drug and no more infection and no return either. Culture was worth every penny it cost!

My land is also high & dry.
When we get 4 - 6" of rain in the afternoon yes my ground is wet but firm as the water drains..
Usually about 1/2 hour post rain my paddock is dry, completely dry, ground is firmed again...distinguished hoof print seen no residual slop.
I'm not sure why you would want to slow or stop drainage would be my fear putting down concrete fines that pack solid and not drain if anything like the stuff my husband spread on the driveway.
I get the dry footing being searched for but for me would fear the solid and loss of drainage that is apt to occur.

So there is something else to look into...this is what the vet alluded to.
It is a product called "Tomorrow" that you can find in your local Tractor Supply that members here have sworn by in treating the most stubborn cases of hoof thrush and rot. *https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...thine-dry-cow-mastitis-treatment?cm_vc=-10005*
You use enough product to cover the affected area...applied every few days till the problem is no more. 
I've read as much as a full tube if a bad case of infection, as used and healing begins less of product needed. Make sure the hoof is really clean and the product is applied deep between the bulbs in the crevices.
This is a product used for cattle and it works wonders for horses if the members testaments and stories are any proof positive.
There are many web sites that speak of good to fantastic results achieved for the worst thrush and many then say no return has occurred either.
You did this and it did nothing?


I would ask the vet about using the Tomorrow product or the others similar but different combinations of medicated, what have you to lose and also about culturing that thrush residue to make sure you are using the right product to kill the bad organisms, and yes would question the use of a drug systemic since nothing else seems to be working and its time to go the next step if this is ongoing and not responding to treatment in a positive manner.
You have only information and knowledge to gain and a happy horse to have.
Your horse though is paying the price and this is dangerous to continue on. To me nothing to lose & much to gain at this point...
The loss sadly could be that of your horse if this goes to far. :frown_color:
Please at least ask, do some reading and show the vet what you found on numerous websites of comments good about doing something a bit different.
:runninghorse2:...


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## omarroll71 (Aug 14, 2016)

Actually the Tomorrow and the Today cow mastitis were the first ones tried on him and it didn’t work. I used to use an entire tube every other day. I went through (3) boxes of the Tomorrow and (2) boxes of the Today and nothing. She did a biopsy to make sure it wasn’t canker which it wasn’t just a persistent case of severe thrush which has eaten a lot of his frog and that is why she wants him on a dry lot. I am with you I really don’t want to put concrete fines down because they sleep on the sand, they actually lay down at night and sleep and if I do concrete fines I’m sure they won’t use it and that is the reason why I was asking about what is best to use inside run in for them to be able to lay down. One of them already likes to pee inside the run in with just rubber mats. When I spray with Odaway he tends not to do it inside the run in. My sand packs down too as soon as it stops raining but the area where they poop all the time gets kind of mushy and I pick it up every morning throughout the day they are out in their large paddock and they just come inside to eat in the run in since I have their slow feeder in there. They get 24/7 hay. I just don’t know why that area keeps getting mushy, it’s just that spot every where else is compacted sand. I don’t know what to do anymore. I really don’t want to do concrete fines but I need to get his feet healed. I’m also having to get stock just to do his feet because he has become so angry at people messing with his feet and I am tired of them sedating him. I feel so bad for them when they do.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I have no other ideas except the antibiotics administered to treat the infection as it is far beyond regular thrush..
I hope you stumble on what to use, but culturing it might be fastest at this point to know what to do to kill it and get some healthy hooves under your horse..
Only reason why I can think a location stays soggy is underground seepage of a nearby stream or close aquifer and a depression in the ground at that spot.
I might instead of concrete fines go look at some driveway gravel and consider maybe that and a layer of sand over the top, hopefully that would not solidify.
I wish you good thoughts, a quicker resolution to the hoof ailment and some peace cause you are worried sick I can sense it trying to get this under control.
:runninghorse2:...


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## omarroll71 (Aug 14, 2016)

Yes I am. Thank you so much. I was thinking maybe the small manure particles that stay behind and urine might cause that but heck I really don’t know. I’m thinking I’m just going to bring a couple truck loads of sand instead. Thanks again.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Are you addressing the thrush from a dietary angle? Sometimes chronic thrush means they're deficient in something. Often copper and zinc in the diet -- especially if they're getting a lot of iron in their water or feed or mineral block, etc. Iron interferes with the absorption of those minerals. There are lots of trace mineral supplements available out there (California Trace seems to be one of the best ones) to help balance that out.


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## omarroll71 (Aug 14, 2016)

Nutrition was the first thing vet looked at but said they were getting the best stuff and not lacking in anything. They are drafts so they are in higher protein feed. They get no salt block as vet said they get enough from their feed and supplement. They are desanded once per month for 7 days per vets recommendations. The weird thing is he runs around and plays with his brother as if he didn’t have anything, they just turned 4 years old.


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