# What is your opinion on keeping horses together or separate.



## disastercupcake (Nov 24, 2012)

Personally, I think if you had the time to work with the horses on their herd sour issues, that would be the best way of solving this. Because horses are so fundamentally herd animals, keeping them together is always best unless there are direct threats to their health.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

I agree with working with them, I have 4 horses (3 mine and 1 boarded), in the summer what I used to do is put a halter/lead on one and let them come out in the yard with me to graze.......didn't take them long to figure out the other one will be back and that the one out got the good grass LOL now I let all four out in our yard with a rope across our driveway so they won't go visiting neighbors LOL


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Agreed. Horses are herd animals and it isn't good for their mental health to keep them isolated. That's why vices run rampant among show horses that are stalled alone for much of their lives; weaving, stall walking, pacing, cribbing, wood chewing, pawing, wall kicking, etc are almost always results of the stress of being kept alone for long periods of time.

The way to solve a herd sour horse isn't by keeping them alone, it's through training.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

I do it a little differently - I have three horses right now - a five year old mare, a two year old gelding, and a yearling gelding.

I have separate paddocks and they all come in every night for dinner and stay in their individual stalls/runs until after breakfast... this makes it much easier for me to monitor feed intake and make sure each get to eat stress free.

I normally turn the yearling and two year old out after breakfast so the yearling can socialize and move around the pasture - then switch it up every so often, turning the mare out with the two year old - but I notice that every night at dinner, no matter who is out with who - they all stand at the gate waiting to go to their stalls for dinner. 

I have never had any of them stand at the fence and act concerned about not being turned out with the other two - they all seem happy when they are with each other, but not anxious about being the odd man out. And that is exactly the way I like it. I can put anybody in the trailer and leave without any upset, either from them or the ones left behind.

I think horses that have the stall issues get them more from the fact that they are in the stall than from the fact that they are kept individually. The barns I have seen that have open dividers (and so can see and socialize with their neighbors) have much more content horses than those kept in solid dividers - but in either case, horses that live in a stall without the benefit of freedom of movement are absolutely prone to vices as they are generally bored out of their minds. 

Even though my horses are show horses and I do want to keep them blemish free, I accept the risk as I find they grow up much healthier and happier than those that grow up in a barn and never get to run in a pasture, bucking and kicking at their buddies. There is always a balance.


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## dreambig92 (Feb 16, 2014)

I have always let them run in a heard and work with them randomly one on one a lot, but at the same time, im home most of the time and have this ability. I also tend to keep my horses who are in more strict training separated as it makes them bond more with me and learn i am in their herd and also lead mare. A lot of horses become herd bound as in the wild that is how they have protection, but if you can show them you are capable of protecting them when it is just you two, they will look to you for safety more easily and it will help with the herd bound issues.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

They HAVE to be together. I perceive isolation from the herd as an act of moral cruelty, unless there are serious health concerns and it is temporary. Herd-bound is a people issue, not a horse issue - you have to work on a horses' complete trust and respect in you, so that he is motivated to concentrate fully on you, not think only of his herd. If he's not - well, then you see the issues with "herd-bound" or "buddy sour". They are neither bound nor sour, they are just herd animals with flight instincts, and they are hard wired to know that their strongest chance of survival lies within keeping the herd together. Thus, the human has to learn how to become the horses' herd.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I've actually heard that horses kept in pair or small groups are more likely to be herd bound. Also, keeping them in separate, neighbouring paddocks might not help the situation at all. 

Horses are generally happiest when together. Work with your issues to solve them, rather than looking for a quick fix.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

That's right - they know perfectly well that they are weaker in a smaller herd and build up closer relationships, so, if their handlers cannot establish trust with their horses, the horses are more likely to become herd bound - it applies even more to horses who live in pairs, as, when one is taken away, the other is left alone with no perception for how long it will stay that way. Small, neighbouring paddocks are not a solution as well, as mutual grooming and other forms of physical contact are vital to a horses' well being.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

Saranda - 
You obviously have a strong opinion - but my horses live a very satisfying, emotionally healthy life without living in a group herd.

Making statements like "they HAVE to be together" is just not true. Many, many horses are not kept in herds, and many that are in a herd dynamic that isn't healthy would be better off in a separate paddock. 

Keeping horses over a fence from each other is not isolation. Horses in adjoining paddocks fight, groom, snooze in the sun together - I see mine doing it all the time.

There are no absolutes in horses, and there is not only one way to raise, train, and care for horses. There are many, many ways of giving horses quality lives. Everyone just needs to do what works best for their horses and their situation.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Mostly everyone just does what works best for themselves, and horses come second. Then again, I am not to judge anyone, so let's just agree to disagree like proper adults.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

huh. Most people I know care very deeply about their horses and if something isn't working for their horse, adjust accordingly. I don't even know how to respond to "best for themselves, horses come second" - in my experience, most happy horse owners do what works for themselves AND their horses. 

Yep, let's agree to disagree.


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## Snowball (Feb 2, 2014)

thank you everyone for your opinions. Ace80908, yours was very helpful as this is what I was considering was that they would be right on the other side of the fence from each other so they can still socialize. My main reason for considering separating them is because I have two young daughters who ride and are now starting 4 H. They are at the point where they can go get their own horse pretty much without help, however, I have one girl that is scared of the other horses because they are very friendly and "swarm her" when she goes in to get one. Then when one is taken out, they all want to go out. She is a perfectionist and get very upset when she has trouble getting out the gate with just one. I agree that training will help with this and experience will help her also, but in the mean time I worry about her safety being in there with them. They are not mean by any means, but she is small and inexperienced. Even though I am always at the gate to help it makes me nervous and I would like her experiences to be good. I do want what is best for the horses, but also for what we do with them. We ride everyday, however, not all of them. We have two that are "kids horses" that they ride. One in there is a 4 year old that my husband is working with, although, he is very busy and does not get the time to work with her everyday. I definitely want what is best for the horses, but I do also want what is best for the kids and us as well. Feeding would be easier separately as well, as we do have a "food bully" in the bunch. I do hesitate at the separation though, as they are definitely herd sour. When ever one gets loaded in the trailer, the others panic and thus the one in the trailer is upset as well. I am thinking this will get better the more we do it, as the kids have only been in 4H for one year, so this is new for the horses for one to leave. I am wondering if separating them, but so they can still touch over the fence, may help as they would still get their socialization from that, but have an easier time being apart?


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## Snowball (Feb 2, 2014)

I was actually looking for pros and cons of both ways also. Thanks.


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

We kept Ana by herself in a Paddock for 3 weeks before turning her loose with the herd. 

Pros: 
Can retrieve her faster from the Paddock
She can't get beat up by other horses
Easier at feeding time

Cons:
She was lonely an anxious
She had less room to stretch/run

Honestly, she's so much happier being with the herd. Other boarders who use paddock boarding do so because: the horse doesn't get along with other horses or the horse is a hard catch.

Hope this helps.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

Snowball - I am happy I could help ... keeping mine separate works for me. As your girls hit show season, it is likely they will be grooming and putting them in stalls the night before a contest, so that may be another reason to at least get the horses used to the idea. As someone else mentioned above, it does also help the horse get a stronger bond with their handler... my geldings both meet me at the gate everytime I go to the barn.

As you can see, many different ways to do it - I just haven't seen any behaviors from mine that would indicate stress or worry. My horses are on my property and I am out there multiple times a day. I have happy, sociable horses who enjoy their people as well as each other.

It may be that the best thing to do is a trial run - separate them and see how it works for you... Horses may not care at all - mine don't have any preference. If they run the fences, scream for each other, etc. you can always adjust...


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

I've always found 2 horses in a paddock is harder, because they get attached to each other and is harder to take just one of the field. Horses are better off in a herd because they need to interact with one another and socialise. Unfortunately, Ginny is on her own at the minute but she can see other horses and interact over the fence. She's much more reliant on me, and although it seems she loves me, it's not fair on her being on her own and much healthier if she were with 2,3 other horses. The best way to fix this is with training and keeping them together. Always try not to separate them if it can be helped.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You only should separate a new horse from the existing herd, over the fence, so that they can talk to each other and nose each other. Keep them together. Nervous horses get colicky and frantic and separating them during turning will only freak them out.
Horse training is a LOT of work. Don't make it any harder.


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

Corporal said:


> You only should separate a new horse from the existing herd, over the fence, so that they can talk to each other and nose each other. Keep them together. Nervous horses get colicky and frantic and separating them during turning will only freak them out.
> Horse training is a LOT of work. Don't make it any harder.


 
So true. When we moved Ana to the pasture, it opened up a spot for the BO to separate a mare from a gelding who had been paddocked together. They could still see each other and touch noses. The mare was totally freaked out. Sweating, pacing, huffing and puffing. The gelding was completely unaffected. He was busy flirting with the ladies on the other side of his paddock fence. Such a player :wink:


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

As long as you don't have issues with the individual horses not getting along, then I think it would be best to keep everyone together and work with your herd sour issues on each horse individually. Definitely don't break them up into pairs. It works alright for some horses, but with some it causes them to become more intensely bonded to their buddy and will actually make buddy sour issues worse. 

This exact thing happened to my horse when I moved him to my current barn. There weren't really any available pastures in the area to put my guy out with more than one other horse, so the barn manager started putting him out at night with the horse he was stalled next to. Things weren't so bad if I took my horse out to work- I guess I was considered a buddy to him and he behaved well. I was doing some work with his pasture mate at the time, and if I took that horse out of the stall my guy would fuss and fuss for the duration of the ride until I brought his buddy back. This problem was further complicated by the fact that the arena is adjacent to the barn so my horse could see his buddy for parts of the ride, and not for other parts. He got his buddy privileges revoked shortly after that, and was turned out in a pasture next to a couple of mares. They'd stand next to each other over the fence and interact a little bit, and he was perfectly fine with that. He's been turned out with stall neighbors plenty of times in the past, but there have always been other horses out with them- anywhere from just three horses to a dozen.

I DO think that it is best in almost all situations for horses to be allowed to interact freely with other horses, so we worked something out where he's being turned out with two other geldings that are on strictly pasture board. 97% of the time the other two horses ignore him, but he gets to chase them around for a little while. He seems happier with it.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

It is much better for them to be together. I would only keep them separate if there were serious issues (health concerns, a very aggressive horse, etc). They are happier and healthier together. I know some people with show horses keep them separate but honestly I can easily see the horses stress from it. That said, my trainer has top quality show horses (she also shows in hand) and the only one kept by itself is her stallion whose pasture adjoins the geldings. The more turnout the better, in a group. Her horses are happy and blemish free. The problems are what humans create.

Having herd bound horses is your issue to fix, not hurt the horses more to avoid it. I agree that they will probably be worse in the scenarios you describe. Unless they are completely isolated, which is not ok. I have never had an issue with any of my horses being herd bound and they are always kept in a small group (all together, but we only ever have 3 or 4 or so at a time).


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Snowball said:


> thank you everyone for your opinions. Ace80908, yours was very helpful as this is what I was considering was that they would be right on the other side of the fence from each other so they can still socialize. My main reason for considering separating them is because I have two young daughters who ride and are now starting 4 H. They are at the point where they can go get their own horse pretty much without help, however, I have one girl that is scared of the other horses because they are very friendly and "swarm her" when she goes in to get one. *Learning to deal with this as opposed to avoid this will be a valuable learning experience for her.* Then when one is taken out, they all want to go out. She is a perfectionist and get very upset when she has trouble getting out the gate with just one. I agree that training will help with this and experience will help her also, but in the mean time I worry about her safety being in there with them. *Go with her. I was doing this with large groups of squabbling horses when I was a young age. Not safe, but it taught me a lot. If you go with her or have her sister go simply to make sure she's safe and let her deal with it on her own as much as possible.*They are not mean by any means, but she is small and inexperienced. Even though I am always at the gate to help it makes me nervous and I would like her experiences to be good. I do want what is best for the horses, but also for what we do with them. We ride everyday, however, not all of them. We have two that are "kids horses" that they ride. One in there is a 4 year old that my husband is working with, although, he is very busy and does not get the time to work with her everyday. I definitely want what is best for the horses, but I do also want what is best for the kids and us as well. Feeding would be easier separately as well, as we do have a "food bully" in the bunch. *Yes, but there are other easy options as well* I do hesitate at the separation though, as they are definitely herd sour. When ever one gets loaded in the trailer, the others panic and thus the one in the trailer is upset as well. I am thinking this will get better the more we do it,*YES* as the kids have only been in 4H for one year, so this is new for the horses for one to leave. I am wondering if separating them, but so they can still touch over the fence, may help as they would still get their socialization from that, but have an easier time being apart?*Either separate them or don't. They are either together or apart.*


My responses above. Sorry for the bad editing


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sorry, another post. just wanted to add that teaching your horse to trust you and want to be with you will get rid of the issue and is also obviously a great thing to learn. Separating them may get rid of the issue (may) but it will just be avoiding the prboem and not make the horse trust you any more.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Put your kids horses seperate so the Kids can have easy access to them, without being afraid of the herd. I would not want a kid out in a herd, to many things can go wrong. 
Most horses are fine if they can see smell tough each other through a paddock. 
I have seen box stall horses be perfectly content , they had access to stick their heads out and could see the other horses. i have one horse that is so dominant he cannot be out with other horses, he just runs all the horses constantly, but he is fine in a pen next to another horse.


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

I Thought it was allways good to keep horses together in communal paddocks untill a lady i knew didnt feed her horse properly, and it was getting hungry and there was allot more fighting and than a horse got its leg broken (stifle) and the owner kept it in a stall for months for the bone to heal. 

I also heard about an older horse down the road at a different paddock, and the horses were arguing because a new horse was added. The old horse was standing for a long time in the same place because it got its knee broken. 

So Private paddocks all the way ! Ive dealt with all those cuts and scars they get from other horses, better to lock them up seperate than force them to be in an enclosed space together which isnt natural anyway !


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

Is even less natural for horses to be separated. Horses don't usually fight. The reasons you described were through the fault of the owners. Not the horses. They may get cuts and bites but it's healthy for them to play fight. Yes a broken knee or leg isn't healthy, the first was as you said not feed properly and probably got caught caught in a corner where they most likely got into kicking until one couldn't. The 2nd should have been introduced better and pulled out when problems arised. I'd rather deal with cuts and marks from horses biting other horses than a wind sucking horse or, weaving and other issues caused by anxiety (usually)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

OK - This is not a case of these horses not getting on with each other.
Its about doing something to stop them clinging to each other like a life raft
Splitting them up isn't going to help make them less buddy sour because they will still be able to see each other so it would be pointless doing that
This is something you need to work out by improving your relationship with each horse and building up their self confidence so they are brave enough to face the big world without a buddy to lean on - and trust in you to look after them out there


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^Yes. So much yes.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

OliviaMyee said:


> I Thought it was allways good to keep horses together in communal paddocks untill a lady i knew didnt feed her horse properly, and it was getting hungry and there was allot more fighting and than a horse got its leg broken (stifle) and the owner kept it in a stall for months for the bone to heal.
> 
> I also heard about an older horse down the road at a different paddock, and the horses were arguing because a new horse was added. The old horse was standing for a long time in the same place because it got its knee broken.
> 
> So Private paddocks all the way ! Ive dealt with all those cuts and scars they get from other horses, better to lock them up seperate than force them to be in an enclosed space together which isnt natural anyway !


I agree that if you don't have the room to safely have them together not to force it unless you KNOW they are bffs (and even then). However I don't think the examples given are the best. Proper management is key, in everything. OP currently has them all in together so she has the room and the horses get along (as far as we are aware).


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

I see many crowded and poorly managed communal paddocks in my area, while my agistment has around 10 private paddocks which are rotated all 8 horses on property except for two minny's and two thoroughbreds are kept seperate, they are all happy and are of good weight, none of them pace up and down or show signs of anxiety they can all see each other and interact with each other. 

The dangerouse problems i see with poorly managed communal paddocks:
The paddocks are over stocked and over grazed.
the horses get hungry because they need to eat all the time, so the horses fight.

Some horses have all four feet with shoes on so if a horse kicks another it damages other horses so much that horses get cuts and scrapes all over them, and the shoes can even cause a horses leg to be broken if the horse with shoes does a big kick. 

Horses that are brought in and out of a communal paddock allot or for a long time, cause more arguments between horses because of the coming and goings the horses are constantly trying to establish a hierarchy which is difficult if horses are taken in and out of communal paddocks.

The problem isnt with the horses usually, its with people and how they plan the paddock, some horses can just be freakishly aggresive and be put in with other horses when it should be kept by itself. 

I was at a communal paddock that put 1 single round bale out with over 10 horses and they are were trying to fight to get to the food obviously the hay should be spread around. 

people go out and try to catch their horse with food and get the horses fighting all in the same place i know because i leased a horse whos owner when catching their horse with food was encouraged and the only way which was very dangerous and selfish.

I see a public communal paddock hard to keep relatively calm and safe for the horses because horses can come and go all the time at certain places, which puts stress on all the other horses. 

If you ever go to my agistment you see how much better private paddocks are for horses than a poorly managed or public paddock. 

Even if the owners feed their horses, one day some one could have been in a car accident or forget to come and feed their horse (which happens allot) and all it takes is one kick and you have a dead horse or one on stall rest for nearly a year.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Olivia - While I can see your point and would not keep horses together in any situation where they could cause each other serious harm and I also understand that show people don't want their horse blemished - in the UK a blemished show horse is no use to anyone
However
That is not the point of the discussion here so not worth arguing about, the OP doesn't have a problem with her horses being aggressive with each other - they get on great - too great!!!
Yes she could split them up but unless she builds solid walls between her paddocks so they can't see each other she will still have the same problems with them


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

I was expressing my opinion in relation to the question of keeping horses together or seperate. I think in the op's situation it is good, but at a shared establishment i think not unless the paddock is well regulated.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

As for horses getting enough social contact over a fence - well, it's the same with people: would any of us get enough of social contact (including OUR "grooming" (touching) habits over an electric fence?  ) I don't want to be perceived as humanizing horses, yet our species are both social animals with the same need for physical contact and certain relationship rituals to feel socially fulfilled (with exceptions, naturally). In long term, separation in different paddocks is still the same - separation, although with some bonuses, comparing to isolation, of course.


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## pineapplepastures (Nov 12, 2013)

I don't know, my horse was kept in a pasture with a ton of other horses, never separated or stalled for six years that he was at this place. I could tell he got picked on a lot because he had a few battle wounds. When I bought him, I was worried about him being barn sour because when I test rode him he didn't want to go forward and heading back he was more than gung-ho. Not to mention I wasn't sure how he'd do stalled by himself. Turns out he loves it. He has neighbors of course, so he can socialize but since everyone privately boards there, none of the horses ever get turned out together with the exception of two. Anyway, my horse seems to really like not having to fight for his food and I don't know if I'm making this up but he seems to also really enjoy being a 1-person-pet-horse instead of a rental horse.

Maybe not all horses care too much about being separated? That's just my experience anyway
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*BUMP*
The OP is asking for advice on how to deal with buddy sour horses.


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

Ace80908 said:


> Saranda -
> You obviously have a strong opinion - but my horses live a very satisfying, emotionally healthy life without living in a group herd.
> 
> Making statements like "they HAVE to be together" is just not true. Many, many horses are not kept in herds, and many that are in a herd dynamic that isn't healthy would be better off in a separate paddock.
> ...


I think with horses though there are no absolutes, horses do have to be together unless they have been injured and cannot heal without being away from others. Although over a fence is not isolated per say, but they cannot communicate healthily with one another. Horses need to be in a herd and not separated for long periods of times(weeks). From the horses I've worked with, the ones that were the most pushy and harder were the ones kept from the other horses, apart from the stallions because no-one ever lets stallions get away with this that some may let a gelding get away with


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

*There is always.....*

going to be some sort of pecking order going on when it comes to food. I had up to 7 horses here at one time, I put out 8-10 piles of hay and that way if one was the bully of the food the other always had one to go to. That and the alpha soon got tired of chasing the 2 newbies around from pile to pile.

When it came to them getting their beet pulp, everyone was tied up until everyone was done eating. It helped with having them easy to catch and this way they all got what they were supposed to.....



OliviaMyee said:


> I Thought it was allways good to keep horses together in communal paddocks untill a lady i knew didnt feed her horse properly, and it was getting hungry and there was allot more fighting and than a horse got its leg broken (stifle) and the owner kept it in a stall for months for the bone to heal.
> 
> I also heard about an older horse down the road at a different paddock, and the horses were arguing because a new horse was added. The old horse was standing for a long time in the same place because it got its knee broken.
> 
> So Private paddocks all the way ! Ive dealt with all those cuts and scars they get from other horses, better to lock them up seperate than force them to be in an enclosed space together which isnt natural anyway !


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Saranda said:


> They HAVE to be together. *I perceive isolation from the herd as an act of moral cruelty, unless there are serious health concerns and it is temporary. Herd-bound is a people issue, not a horse issue -* you have to work on a horses' complete trust and respect in you, so that he is motivated to concentrate fully on you, not think only of his herd. If he's not - well, then you see the issues with "herd-bound" or "buddy sour". They are neither bound nor sour, they are just herd animals with flight instincts, and they are hard wired to know that their strongest chance of survival lies within keeping the herd together. Thus, the human has to learn how to become the horses' herd.


Wow....horses are individals and should be treated as such. To NOT treat them as individuals with individual needs and "likes" is doing an injustice to the horse. To hold YOUR ideals about what you THINK is best for them....is a moot point. My horses are turned out alone and they are as happy as can be, have NO vices, and could care less about other horses...and being without a buddy. WE make think that ALL horses need a buddy....and THAT'S a people issue, not a horse issue. I agree wholeheartedly.....sorry,


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

GotaDunQH said:


> Wow....horses are individals and should be treated as such. To NOT treat them as individuals with individual needs and "likes" is doing an injustice to the horse. To hold YOUR ideals about what you THINK is best for them....is a moot point. My horses are turned out alone and they are as happy as can be, have NO vices, and could care less about other horses...and being without a buddy. WE make think that ALL horses need a buddy....and THAT'S a people issue, not a horse issue. I agree wholeheartedly.....sorry,


It's not a people issue. Horses are herd animals. So how is it a people issue that they need to be together. Horses in the wild that are away from the herd get eaten and solemn survive on a land with predators. This is instinct for the horse to be with one another, not a people issue. Horses may be okay on their own but they have no-one to play with, groom or sort out a hierarchy. This is what horses do, not a people issue.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

madyasmkey said:


> It's not a people issue. Horses are herd animals. So how is it a people issue that they need to be together. *Horses in the wild that are away from the herd get eaten and solemn survive on a land with predators*. This is instinct for the horse to be with one another, not a people issue. Horses may be okay on their own but they have no-one to play with, groom or sort out a hierarchy. This is what horses do, not a people issue.


You missed by point entirely....but that's ok. These aren't wild horses.....they changed just a little bit when we domesticated them, and they've had human contact since the day they were born, they've adapted to a totally dfferent environment. Horses have individual needs, "likes" and "dislikes"....so why should they be treated the same?


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

madyasmkey said:


> I think with horses though there are no absolutes, horses do have to be together unless they have been injured and cannot heal without being away from others. Although over a fence is not isolated per say, but they cannot communicate healthily with one another. Horses need to be in a herd and not separated for long periods of times(weeks). From the horses I've worked with, the ones that were the most pushy and harder were the ones kept from the other horses, apart from the stallions because no-one ever lets stallions get away with this that some may let a gelding get away with


Your house, your rules....

As I posted earlier, they do not HAVE to be together, and they do not NEED to be in a herd. You consider it ideal. Cool. I do not. 

I have absolutely NO problems with mine. They are all people friendly, respectful, and well cared for. They are turned out together occasionally, and they enjoy it. They are left in their individual runs as well - and enjoy it. They eat their hay and grain at their leisure - wander out of their stalls, hang out at the fencelines, or wander to different areas of their pens. They meet me at the gate, with no separation issues. Ever. They do not rely on each other to have their needs met. They enjoy each other, but do not rely on each other. I consider that ideal.

But again - my house, my rules. Your house, your rules.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

I don't think it's healthy to keep horses separated. If you've ever met a horse that's been on stall rest, they aren't usually the same after and it can take them a ling runs to acclimate back to a herd.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

A long time...Lol stupid phone!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I think whether your horse is herd bound or not is (for the most part) _completely_ irrelevant from how they are housed and that, unless they are completely isolated, which I think we can all agree is not ideal for most horses, that "herd bound" has to do with how the handler treats the horse and the trust and companionship the horse must feel to not be herd bound is something developed. Some horses are naturally more independent others are not.

I just feel aside from the initial question, which OP has gotten a lot of replies for, that no one has said anything to help with the actual issue. Separating the horses (without completely isolating them) will not prevent this issue, imo. Nobody has touched on that topic much. We are simply in a debate as to which is "better".

OP there are a lot of other threads as to how to deal with herd bound horses. I would suggest checking those out.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

gypsygirl said:


> I don't think it's healthy to keep horses separated. If you've ever met a horse that's been on stall rest, they aren't usually the same after and it can take them a ling runs to acclimate back to a herd.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that you're getting at a whole nother issue with stall rest... Being confined and unable to run and get out energy probably does more to cause issues in these horses than does the lack of interaction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I have known at least a few(if not more) horses that absolutely could not be turned out with another horse. They were so aggressive that they would run the other horse(s) around until we separated them. Just recently a mare I know who was usually kept alone(for good reason) was turned out with another mare who was very docile and submissive. The owners thought it would be okay. Mare 1 ran mare 2 into te ground, cornered her and got into a kicking match. Mare 2 ended up with a badly torn vulva, scrapes on her hind legs and a very severe cut on her left(I believe) hind. She made it about a week with daily vet visits, diagnostics and the works. At the end a very, very nice mare was euthanized. If I were the owner of the mare, she'd never be turned out with another horse again. Too risky, IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I hate to shout 
BUT
None of these posts (Interesting though they may be) on how well horses cope living on their own is actually of any help at all to the OP's problem with dealing with a buddy sour horse.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

jaydee said:


> I hate to shout
> BUT
> None of these posts (Interesting though they may be) on how well horses cope living on their own is actually of any help at all to the OP's problem with dealing with a buddy sour horse.


 Well, then maybe she should change the TITLE of this thread. After all it is TITLED*..."WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON KEEPING HORSES TOGETHER OR SEPARATE".* She asked for opinions and got them.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think she expected members to read the first post!!!


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

OP, if you can spare time, handle each horse individually away from the herd - preferably daily or at least several times during the week. By taking them out of the pasture, even for a short while, you will find that this helps greatly with buddy sourness. Just taking them out and going for a walk down the driveway and back works if you don't have a lot of time.

My horses (four of them), fyi, are kept together in a pasture as I think that is best for them although I recognize this may not be possible for every horse every where.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

jaydee said:


> I think she expected members to read the first post!!!


Actually, the first post doesn't really ask how to deal with the herd sour issues at all, other than which turnout arrangement would help or be detrimental to the issue... No questions about how to manage the horses in any other way have been asked, though I do think that such answers would be of great help to the poster.

Even in the second post she asks about whether or not socializing over the fence will provide the social experience, but still help to distance the horses from each other... to which a large number of the replies have been focused. 

And the third post: "I was actually looking for pros and cons of both ways also. Thanks."

Based on these posts and the thread title, I don't know where it became the impression that the poster was only trying to deal with a buddy sour horse, especially to the point of warranting "shouting". She was just the advantages and disadvantages of each method and whether separating would help or worsen the problem. I think it's a great discussion that has multiple points of view to which the poster can gain a lot of insight, and no one's stopping anyone else from posting other relevant training and herd management techniques that may be of help.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Snowball said:


> We currently have all four of our horses together in one large pasture. *We are thinking of separating them so that* *they are not so herd sour*. *Not sure if we should put each one* *separate or buddy them up*. What are your opinions about advantages either way or also we could separate them sometimes and have them together sometimes. We have plenty of room, the fencing, watering means, and shelter for them to each have their own large area if we decide to separate them. So basically, just trying to decide which would be easier for behavior. Thanks a bunch.


This is what said to me that she was thinking about separating them to avoid or stop them being buddy sour and if it would work better if she kept them individually or in pairs
How they will cope with living apart from each other doesn't actually have much bearing on them being buddy sour unless they are totally isolated from each other so never see another horse that they can feel the need to get back too when they're taken away from the property


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The reason the OP was considering separating them was due to the issue of being buddy sour. So whether or not she decides to separate them (which she now has had plenty of feedback on) it will not change the actual issue at hand so OP will need guidance on how to deal with that issue. I think our first priority should be to help the OP with the actual issues she is experiencing as opposed to a debate on something she was going to try to help with the issue (which I think we mostly agreed will _not_ help, and is therefore largely irrelevant). I think it's an interesting debate, except at this point it's not going anywhere and isn't helping the OP.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

We separate horses for two reasons:

First by gender. We NEVER run mares with geldings and do not even run them across a single fence from each other unless there is a hot wire on the top of it.

Second, we separate them by food requirements. Easy keepers stay together and horses requiring more grain live together. 

We will further separate them by age when we have young horses, as they require a higher protein diet and cannot compete with older horses for feed. 

Our methods are only valid where there are a lot of horses to keep and feed. We have 50 head and most run in groups of 5 to 8 head. 

We avoid herd bound behavior by tying out herd bound horses far away from their buddies until they are OK with being separated. This fixes all the silliness from the horse horse taken out. If I have a horse left in the field that runs the fence and whinnies for the one taken out, it get tied up well away from the group (and it friend) until it gets OK with it. I do not let horses run fences or weave or walk a stall. It can turn into a really bad habit that stays for life.


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