# Selling/Giving away a problem horse..? (horrible bucks)



## TribalHorse21 (Aug 23, 2016)

Okay, this is a pretty long read, but please bear with me! I have a 12 year old thoroughbred gelding that I have no idea what to do with. I've ridden plenty of green horses, but he's the worst bucker I've ever ridden.

I'm going to start off with the back story first. I bought this horse, Trigger, last year. He was in very rough condition - his coat was long and dull, and he was skinny with no muscle. Two months before that, I had recently lost my favorite horse to colic, and then I found Trigger. He was super sweet and friendly on the ground (and still is), and he reminded me of my old horse. Apparently he was an ex racer, then a track pony, then was sold on to more homes until he was left starving and rotting in a field for a year. I was given a week to test ride him to see if I wanted to buy him. He wasn't a particularly fun ride. It was more his personality that my heart fell for, and I ended up buying him. He was very slow and weak and I had to use spurs to ask for the canter. Though I suspected as gained more health and muscle, he would have more "go" to him. He did give me a few small bucks the first week I tried him, but they weren't that bad and I didn't think that much of it. I just pushed him forward through it and assumed we'd get past that. 

Though as he put on more weight and grew stronger, well so did his bucks. He puts on weight very quickly, and before I knew it he was plump, shiny and had much more energy in him. But now his bucks were extremely difficult to stay on. Whenever he bucked I just sent him forward an made him work harder. He's bucked at both the trot and canter. The bucking wasn't stopping though, even with all the groundwork we did, and all the times I sent him forward into hard work after it. And I noticed if I tried to do a one rein stop while he's having a fit, he'd go up in the air. I thought maybe it might be his back, so I had the chiropractor out but he threw me another big buck a week after. Until last week I finally was noticing a pattern from his bucking fits. He seemed to go into bucking fits whenever things got too exciting for him, (like when there's commotion in the arena, horses in paddocks going crazy nearby, asking him for a small hand gallop, weird goats running around, horses going fast near him or galloping barrel patterns in the arena) But what also made him go into bucking fits was when I was asking him to bend and his turn head inward, or when I had too much contact on his mouth. (It's not like I'm rough on his mouth though, I have light hands) 
A thought popped into my head last week - CRAP, when's the last time he's had his teeth done?! So I got him floated, and the dentist said he was super super, sharp. I don't know much about teeth floating so I asked the dentist if it's okay to ride the same day they get floated, and he said yeah he should be good to go. So I rode him later that night, and he bucked me, hard. I fell off and hit my tail bone, it hurt pretty **** bad, but luckily I just bruised it. That's the third time I came off on him. Later I googled and found out you should never get on a horse the day it's been floated because they tend to be sore - I shouldn't of listened to that guy. -__- Anyways, I waited a week for any soreness in his mouth to go away, then I lunged him hard and hopped back on.We started walking around, but there were horses and dogs nearby galloping around and I knew something was bound to happen if I went trotting around with him. I didn't feel safe on him and I could feel underneath me that he was going to pull the same crap as I was asking him to bend in circles. So I kept it at a walk and then got off, realizing I'm 100% done with this horse. I don't know what the deal is, but I think it may be both a physical and behavioral issue. If it was a physical issue to start out with, well I'll never know now if I fixed the physical issue because it's probably developed into a habit. Or maybe it has always been both, and he's been bucking for more than one reason?

Whatever it is, I don't want to keep getting on this horse with the risk of him killing me or seriously injuring me. Trigger is built like a tank and everyone think's he's a quarter horse when they first meet him. Even though he has a very smooth, slow canter like a a carousel horse, you can really feel the power underneath you if you're on him. When he acts up, he's a really difficult horse to stay on, and he can throw some really nasty, corkscrew bucks. I'm afraid of selling or giving him away to anyone in fear that he may seriously hurt them. Not to mention, a horse like this may end up starving in a field again or in a slaughter house. He's such a sweet loving horse on the ground though, I'd couldn't live with myself if anything like that happened to him. Anyone have any ideas on what to do?:neutral: Thanks for reading and thank you for any advice.


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## Abzeez (Aug 22, 2016)

Unless I missed it, have you checked the saddle fit? A poor fitting saddle can cause a horse to come unglued, if they are sensitive.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

I think you may have found out why he was sold on so many times and ended up neglected in a field. I Think you are right, he will either hurt someone or end up neglected again or both. I'm sure that a lot of his previous owners tried to fix the issue and failed. 

You sound like a very experienced equestrian so I'm not even sure a professional trainer would be able to help if you couldn't manage it but it might be worth a try, if you feel so inclined. Along with a sadle fitter and a full work up by the vet. But something tells me that this horse is too far gone to fix with any reasonable amount of money. I've seen a similar situation unfold and there was just no fixing it, regardless of the money spent. 

This is what I would do: get the vet out to check for any obvious pain, and then just keep him as a pet. But I'm a bleeding heart and I can afford it. If I couldn't afford it, I would put him down. Also, I'm a novice and you are free - and advised  to disregard my opinion.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Either give him away with full disclosure, keep him as a pasture puff, or euth him if you don't want to spend anymore money on him. 

Those are really your only options, since at auction he may very well go to a kill buyer. I'm betting other people figured they could 'fix' him, which is why he wound up where he did. 

Most dirty tricksters only get worse the better they feel.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

This is a horse that sounds as if he has learned that he can just Buck his rider off as and when he wants. 

I would use a war bridle on him so he cannot get his head down to buck. 

There are two versions of this, with one, two pieces of strong nylon cord, tied to either side of the bit, thread through each side of the browband and then down the neck back to the saddle reasonably tight so he cannot lower his head down far enough to buck. 

The other is one piece of cord, looped at one end which is placed under his top lip, the rest brought to the front of the nose up the centre of the face under the headpiece and again back to the saddle. 

Both will make him think twice when he jams his head down to buck. 

If that doesn't work, follow Speed's advice.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I think you could be right that the horse has more physical issues. My question would be about muscle issues or back pain, since these often cause reactive horses. My own mare never bucked until developing a Vitamin E deficiency, at which point she began to buck regularly when asked to canter. It was because the deficiency made coordination difficult, and her hind end became weak (not apparent until things progressed much more, this was an early stage). This made cantering the most difficult gait for her. When I finally began giving her high doses of Vitamin E, along with magnesium and a little selenium (we live in a selenium poor area), the problem went away.

To assess for a muscular/neuro problem, you can check for coordination, weakness and balance on the lunge. See if the horse has any difficulty with quick, sudden turns, backing up, or stepping over poles. See if transitions into the canter seem awkward. If the horse seems to have any trouble getting down to roll or going down hills, these can also be signs. Sometimes horses that react so drastically have issues like a bad hock degeneration beginning. Some horses have an issue that causes severe pain only when being ridden or in a certain gait.

My second thought is that the approach being used on the horse might be wrong for his personality. Sometimes horses that are sensitive have tried telling people something is wrong, but have been pushed on. This creates a horse that learns to "shout" because no one listens. For instance, if a horse bucks and then someone works them harder as punishment. What if the horse was bucking because his back was sore or his hind end was weak...he will possibly over react even more in the future. He might not wait, but react right away in anticipation of the pain to come.

I'm guessing you have a horse that is reactive to fear, pain and/or confusion. Any source of fear or discomfort at this point will make him buck. Using something like Foxhunter describes or a six ring martingale (slide the reins through the rings and the horse can't get his head down to buck) can break the cycle so the horse can think a moment and learn that the rider will continue calmly on. Rather than making a horse work harder if he bucks, I'd bring things down a couple of notches and work on something he can do well and calmly. He's probably not trying to get out of work, he's probably reacting to a stimulus that has over faced him. I had a fear bucker and I rode her in a six ring martingale for about six months until I felt certain she wouldn't try to buck when startled or frightened. She did try several times in the first couple of weeks, but I was able to catch her head and stop her, get off and calm her down, and then get back on and keep riding.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

I'm thinking along the same lines as Gottatrot. I'd check saddle fit and get an opinion from a different chiropractor. I would also look carefully into his diet as there could be a deficiency of some sort. You do sound to have a good amount of experience, but I think this horse may just need a different approach to what you are doing. After ruling out any other contributing factors he may need to be started from scratch again. I don't think that I would be running a barrel pattern on a horse that will buck at a trot.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

The first thing you should rule out is kissing spine. Then saddle fit and then go down the list.


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## TribalHorse21 (Aug 23, 2016)

Textan49 said:


> I'm thinking along the same lines as Gottatrot. I'd check saddle fit and get an opinion from a different chiropractor. I would also look carefully into his diet as there could be a deficiency of some sort. You do sound to have a good amount of experience, but I think this horse may just need a different approach to what you are doing. After ruling out any other contributing factors he may need to be started from scratch again. I don't think that I would be running a barrel pattern on a horse that will buck at a trot.


When I mentioned the thing about barrel patterns, I meant when other riders were in the ring running barrel patterns, he'd have a melt down. I don't barrel race nor would I ever try running barrels on him - that'd be insane, he'd kill me for sure lol. Anyways thank you for advice.


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## TribalHorse21 (Aug 23, 2016)

Foxhunter said:


> This is a horse that sounds as if he has learned that he can just Buck his rider off as and when he wants.
> 
> I would use a war bridle on him so he cannot get his head down to buck.
> 
> ...


Thank you, that sounds like it might work but I'd be worried it would teach him to go up instead,since he couldn't get his head down. Like how he reared straight up with me when I tried to pull his head to the side into a one rein stop when he was having a fit. I don't want his bucking habit to just turn into a rearing one.


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

First step for a horse as you described, assuming you truly want to work with him, is to rule out pain with a complete physical by an equine specialist, get any physical issues corrected, and then take the horse back to the ground and work with him as if he's never been handled, looking for the holes in his training. Only after all the holes in his groundwork are filled do you even consider restarting him under saddle.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

of course, you always first rule out saddle fit or other pain issues (in the back) then . . . 


you could try tying him near where commotion is going on. leaving him there for hours at a time. all kinds of noisy places. allow him to work it out on his own. 

however, I would guess that such an ingrained habit might not be changeable.


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## jgalejs (Jul 10, 2016)

If the horse makes you nervous (and it seems like he does for good reason!!!) Don't get back on while you retain those feelings. He can feel your tension and that MAY exacerbate the problem. This really boils down to three options: 

1: Lifetime free lease with a return contract. That way you can advertise him honestly and if he hurts someone or becomes even more dangerous, he will come back to you and you can decide to re-home again or put him down

2: Pasture pet 

3: Put him down before he hurts anyone seriously.

You're absolutely right to be concerned about his safety and the safety of his riders. Best of luck. You cant feed or train him if he kills you, so put your safety first!!!!


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

You are in a tough situation and there are a few ways you can approach it. Whatever the result, he's YOUR horse and it's YOUR decision and don't let anyone shame you otherwise. 

One option, which some people might not agree with, is you can put him down. You absolutely can try to find a home for him, if you do decide it is just not worth it to you to try to keep him. But of course, it is possible he could pass hands several times with his bucking issues, and possible you would have no idea where he would end up. There are plenty of good riding horses in this world, so it is reasonable to put one down that has some bad engrained habits. I certainly wouldn't think any less of you for making that decision, as it is a responsible decision. 

As mentioned, you could try to sell him with full disclosure of his issues. You may find someone who wants to take him on. I had an issue with a young horse quite a few years back (long story, but horse was supposed to have not been started, but found out later she'd already been to multiple "trainers" and the owners flat out lied to me, and she already had a horrible bucking problems). I decided it was not worth it to me to break her of her bucking habit and I sold her with full disclosure of her problems. You could give her away or actually sell her for a price; you can argue both ways. But it is an option to try to find her a new home. 

If you decide to keep her, I agree with the others to do a more extensive pain check. I would take her to a good lameness vet and give her a full lameness evaluation. Also check saddle fit and do another chiro check. THat's good you've addressed her dental issues, but she could still have other issues and it would be in hers and your best interest to give her a full workup. When pain is 100% ruled out, then you can address the behavior. Of course, pain may have originally caused the issues, but now she knows she can buck and get you off. And it's pretty common when they are weak, to have weak bucks. And as they put on weight (and energy) their bucks get much stronger. I would also go back to square one with her. Start her over as if she'd never been ridden. See where the holes are, if any. Do everything you can to prepare her for those stressful situations, so you can re-train her how to respond when those situations occur. And it's always hard to say. You may never be able to trust her 100%. Some horses just never completely re-train out of it. But be prepared for it to be a LONG ROAD if you do decide to keep her and continue on. 

In my opinion, there's too many good ones out there for it to be worth it to me to deal with the "bad ones". But if you think she's worth it, of course that's your decision to make. 

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i feel ya. we are in the same boat with our mustang. he is not a bright horse though he dose try. good under saddle and sweet but so reactive he is self destructive on the ground. he also destroys stalls and fencing and lives to create pee ponds within a day in a 50ft round pen. basically this horse would be on a meat truck in a week if we sold him. im trying a cuple of sanctuaries but its looking like the zoo may feed the lions for a day.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I would also rule out any pain, and check the saddle fit as well. Get a vet to check him too, or even a chiro if there's back issues.

Maybe he is in pain and the only way to let someone know is to buck. Trust me, horses ALWAYS let you know when they're in pain. Somehow, someway. 
I wouldn't go harder if he's bucking- it may make him even more mad. 

Very good of you to be concerned about the safety- your safety is just as important. You never know what can happen the next time you get on him. You just don't know. Not worth the risk. It isn't my decision, but I'd first rule out any pain. I believe every horse deserves a chance, it sounds like he has some baggage and maybe his previous owners did stuff to him, etc...or he could be in pain:sad:. Could be a number of reasons that he's bucking. 

Secondly, if that doesn't work out, I'd stick with the groundwork...I would not risk being saddled up with him/riding him- like I said above, it could go very bad. It's already been pretty bad, I'm glad you were not seriously injured.:sad: I would keep him as a pasture pet, if that's all you can do...I'd be skeptical to sell him, a kill buyer could get him or a new owner may not have the patience you do. You never know. Euthanizing would be the last option IMO...try to rule out the rest first. 

Let us know how it goes. You're very brave. I like that you have faith in him, regardless of what your decision will be.


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## Emeraldsprings (Mar 1, 2015)

Just another thought (although it might make no difference I know)
Is he still getting the same feeding he got to fatten him up? Is he getting grain or just hay? If he is in great condition now he may be getting excess energy in his feeding. 

Is there a chance he could have ulcers? I would double check the saddle fit, girth tightness, bridle fit etc although it sounds more like he is either cold-backed or super fresh.

Maybe try riding him in a quieter area, or at a quieter time? It sounds like there is a lot going on at your barn, enough to put most horses on edge. A lunge before you ride can help too 

Apologies if you have already thought of any of this, you are braver than me for tackling him


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i second the ulcer treatment. odie was spooky, reactive and bucked (more). fixed the ulcers and it helped ALOT. get a vet out. tell them all his issues. they can check his back, for ulcers and even saddle fit to see if its purely behavioural or if there is an underlying issue. also blood work. never a bad idea.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It really is a list of things to go through and then if none of them come up with anything and you feel that the bucking is too much do the right thing and have him euthanized.
With the saddle thing - some horses are simply not as stoic as others and won't tolerate the slightest bit of discomfort from a saddle that just the tiniest bit too tight or not the right shape for them - forward cut can be a negative for them and they prefer a straighter dressage or VSD - or even the girth, I do have one horse that is very twitchy unless she has good sheepskin girth and saddle pad, give her those things and she's as solid as they come. I have another one that freaks out big style if you put a synthetic sheepskin pad on her. 
The only way to rule out back trouble is going to cost you money because its going to involve X rays and ultra sound - without those things you'll never really know. A good friend spent some money a few years ago on chiropractors for a young WB mare that bucked her off every time she tried to canter her, she had insurance so decided to go the X ray route only to find that the horse had some serious spinal damage probably from an accident that happened before she had her. I had a similar experience 20 something years ago - that horse turned out to have a tumour on its spine


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

If you can justify the expense, a good vet check might reveal if he has any physical conditions that make riding uncomfortable and prompt him to buck. 

If he has learned to buck as a way to evade being ridden, or just enjoys bucking that is a more difficult problem to solve. On the bright side, some former Rodeo Broncs are retrained as saddle horses and even used by Pickup men. So it can be done with some. 

I'm no Yakima Canutt, so if he were my problem I'd most likely just retire him to be a pasture buddy especially if he is over 10.


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