# Bitless/Tack/Training Questions



## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

About the saddle and bit thing:

Synthetic kimberlys are around... 250? And I hear they are darn nifty and useful. But depending on the make (not entirely sure about this) the synthetics don't last as long as leather? 

Your horse reacts the way it does to the bit because that bit is NOT a nice bit. Period. If you really want to go bitless, a little s hack or leather side pulls (leather to prevent rubbing on the nose, otherwise, just vet wrap or fleece) are good options. 

If you want to go bitted, switch to a nicer bit that isn't so hard on the mouth.
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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

As far as I understand with doctor cooks... Some horses can't handle the over under pressure and wig out. They feel trapped, or are confused with that specific type of pressure. 

But I could be wrong.
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## oliveoats (Jan 22, 2013)

I am aware it's a nasty bit :/ I know he was in a full cheek before he as switched to the Tom Thumb, but I was told he ran through it and we no longer own one (or even the snaffle). I know that my neighbor (his previous owner) has a hackamores she said I could try on him, but its for a horse that was a bolter with no stop and has a gnarly shank that I don't like. 
I'm hoping I can find a way to 'test' a few bitless options on him. I like the idea of a side pull because he did griund driving in a halter with a longe line connected to each side and was very responsive.


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## oliveoats (Jan 22, 2013)

Could you give me a little info on the difference between the little S and a side pull? I've been shying away from hackamores purely due to lack of knowledge. I had always seen them with big shanks and crossed them off, but was just recently exposed to the little S on thee forums.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

If he ran through a nicer bit, he might even run through a hack. A strong bit should be for refining, not covering up holes which your boy has if he's running through bits. 

I'd bring a trainer out and see what's up with that and downgrade him to a snaffle. 

The easiest thing you can do to test out bitless options is to take a nylon halter and go for a hack in an arena to test out the brakes, turns, etc. Some horses work really well, others are "eh" some can't be trusted at all bitless. 

I'm not entirely sure the mechanics of how a nylon halter relates to a side pull, but as I understand, they are "similiar" but not exact. Hopefully someone can clear that up. 

A little S as I understand it is a lot nicer than a mechanical hack because the shanks are in an s curve, which gives kinder signalling that isn't as harsh as the straight shanks. A lot of barrel racers like them, and I hope to add one to my collection. 

Sidepulls... Someone else is probably going to have to answer that.
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## oliveoats (Jan 22, 2013)

Thank you so much for your help  I appreciate it


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## TheOtherHorse (Aug 5, 2012)

oliveoats said:


> Anyone with other suggestions for a good light weight Australian for a good beginner price (under 1,000 preferably, but I could go a tad higher depending), toss them my way!


I have a Down Under Master Campdraft Deluxe, and I have been very happy with it.
Down Under Master Campdraft Deluxe
It is lighter weight and closer contact than most aussies, and puts me in a proper dressage position instead of a chair seat that most of them do. The flaps are shorter than most too. Very well balanced ride, and quality material. It includes fitting the tree to your wither tracings. They often have them on the clearance page for great deals...


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## oliveoats (Jan 22, 2013)

TheOtherHorse said:


> I have a Down Under Master Campdraft Deluxe, and I have been very happy with it.
> Down Under Master Campdraft Deluxe
> It is lighter weight and closer contact than most aussies, and puts me in a proper dressage position instead of a chair seat that most of them do. The flaps are shorter than most too. Very well balanced ride, and quality material. It includes fitting the tree to your wither tracings. They often have them on the clearance page for great deals...


Those are exactly the ones I was looking at, I really like them  thank you for the review.


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## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Deschutes said:


> I'm not entirely sure the mechanics of how a nylon halter relates to a side pull, but as I understand, they are "similiar" but not exact. Hopefully someone can clear that up.
> 
> A little S as I understand it is a lot nicer than a mechanical hack because the shanks are in an s curve, which gives kinder signalling that isn't as harsh as the straight shanks. A lot of barrel racers like them, and I hope to add one to my collection.
> 
> ...


Halters are loose and twist. Plus, a correctly fitted halter sits higher on the face, where the facial crests end.

A properly fitted sidepull sits lower on the nose for leverage (like a hack), and fits more snugly and sometimes have slightly different designs to prevent twisting and keep the pressure where it's supposed to be.

I make a variety of sidepulls, some out of rope with knots on the noseband (like a training halter), and others that are flat and wide to prevent it from creating pressure points on the nose.

Either way, I would recommend seeing how your horse responds in a halter before switching to a sidepull. You'll get a little more control with a sidepull since it's lower on the face in the case that you need to pull their head around (like a one-rein stop), but you will hopefully not need that leverage. If your horse does not respond to a halter, you're unlikely to have much luck with a sidepull. If you have a rope halter, you can also clip your reins to both the cheek and chin piece at the same time, which pulls the cheek piece lower and keeps your reins in a more correct position, which would mimic a sidepull a little better. Heck, I know riders who just ride with that


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## Faustinblack (Aug 16, 2011)

I have a Kimberly stock saddle and its really comfortable, but the stirrup leathers leave marks on the flaps really quickly.
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## EnduranceLover6 (Jul 4, 2012)

As for the bitless bridle, I would say it completely depends on the horse. Personally I would never ride a bolter without a bit unless I went back to the basics and regained control (one rein stops, disengaging the hindquarters, etc) so that I knew I could control the feet if all else failed, lol. I ride my mare in a bitless bridle made by Moss Rock Endurance which is pretty much exactly like the Dr. Cook bridle. The difference between this bridle compared to a sidepull or hackamore is that it applies pressure against the sides and underneath portions of the jaw, which some horses just can't tolerate due to sensitivity. Some horses will also learn to lean against the pressure of the bitless bridle which can pretty much eliminate its effectiveness. I found that my mare, who is also extremely sensitive, learned to yield from the pressures of the bitless bridle fairly quick with short sessions that I did at a slow pace. I would highly recommend trying one on your horse first before going out and buying one as we know its always trial and error with horses :wink: Good luck!


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Just a note about the bitless bridles...

Any horse can run through a sidepull; you have no stopping power. I agree with testing how your horse goes in a halter (in an arena!) before purchasing one. They can be great, but not wonderful on the trail unless you have an extensive repertoire and respect with your horse. I find that horses will "respect" a bit and become very aware when they're out on the trail and not wearing one!

That being said, for trails, I have a combination bridle (hehe, I do love my gadgets...). It is a sidepull that can attach poll straps so that it becomes one of those Cook Bitless bridles. Or instead, I can snap on bit hangers and go bitted for a while until my boy settles down. Again, I love my gadgets and having options is just so darn fun...

It's the 3-in-1 found here

As for the colors... I don't know! I LOVE expressing my self through funky colors and quite honestly couldn't give a rat's bum about what other people think.  It's just fun! Although I always assumed it was perhaps a visibility thing...?


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## TheOtherHorse (Aug 5, 2012)

oliveoats said:


> Those are exactly the ones I was looking at, I really like them  thank you for the review.


FYI, I've made a couple modifications to mine to make it more endurance friendly. I changed the stirrups leathers out for Wintec Webbers and plastic endurance stirrups. Much lighter weight and more comfy. I also added a billet strap to the overgirth ring so I can use any wide buckle endurance girth, no pull strap needed. Since the flaps are shorter than most aussies you also have more choices in saddle pads. Oversized dressage pads often work well with its shape.


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## oliveoats (Jan 22, 2013)

So I had little chat with the woman who trained Sawyer, and I greatly misunderstood why we switched him to a Tom Thumb. She had told me that he ran through the snaffle, but I worded it wrong when I posted here. 

Basically, when he spooked he'd bold, and sometimes a snaffle wasn't enough to stop him right away and she'd resort to the one rein stop. In the past months I've been riding him, he rarely bolts when he spooks. Last time he bolted, when a dog ran out at us from behind a large bush, he took two steps and stopped himself before I had even realized what was happening. Lately I've noticed him start to 'think it out' when a trail monster confronts us. He'll typically flinch and take 1-2 bolt steps, then immediately stop and begin turning himself, knowing that's what I'll have him do in a minute. 

I am starting to consider the little S hack more, listening to your guys' reviews. Do those have a good 'stop'?

You all are giving me such great opinions and reviews, I really appreciate your help!


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## Faustinblack (Aug 16, 2011)

On my ex-barrel horse I use a S hack and it works perfectly, to stop and turn and everything. But he's also 18 and very well trained
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## prairiewindlady (Sep 20, 2011)

I don't know much about saddles, but I do have a fair amount of experience as far as bits and hackamore (and runaways!) go. I can't tell you what will work for your horse but I can give you a run down on what has (and hasn't) worked for me. 

The pony I ride has an extremely hard mouth. We've never had a problem with steering but "whoa" has always been an issue. He would take off on me in a snaffle, so I switched him to jointed kimberwicke. I kept the reins attached to the top slot so it wasn't too harsh. He used to flip his head in the air with the snaffle and fought it all the way but he truly likes the kimberwicke. He actually takes the bit and accepts it nicely now. Eventually after a year of work we graduated to a hackamore! I have never used an S hack (I'm hoping to get one soon) but I have used Sprenger hackamores on many of my horses. I really like them...you have just enough leverage to give you control when you need it, but it is far from harsh. The only thing that I don't like about it is that it seems to have a tendency to pull the cheekpiece a bit high - too close to the eye for my liking (tho I've discovered that removing the browband helps). 

I do have sidepulls and I used to own a Dr Cook. Neither have worked for me. I will pull out the sidepull in a pinch but it just doesn't give me enough control. The Dr Cook I used just seemed to frustrate my horse (never tried it on the pony) and I ended up getting rid of it.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

OP-another post hinted that you were in CA-is that right? Are you anywhere near Norco? If so, go take a look at Thrifty Horse-they have new & consignment tack. Usually there are all kinds of bits, hackamores, etc, at all kinds of prices. Also, parts so you can put something together if that suits you better. They have lots of Aussie saddles, trail, and endurance saddles in addition to the regular Western & English. Norco Ranch Outfitters is across the street-they sometimes have some consignments, also. But not the range of prices that you will see at TH.


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## oliveoats (Jan 22, 2013)

Nice! I live closer to Broken Horn, but I have heard a lot about Thrifty Horse and haven't taken the time to drive out there. I know where my next tack stop will be > I never knew they had Aussies too

Thank you Cacowgirl!


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