# Help! trouble with LBI gelding



## HorseLover123 (Sep 28, 2008)

Hey guys, so I have recently got into Parelli and went to the 2011 UK Celebration which really inspired me.
I have also recently got my first horse, I knew him for almost two years when I was 11-12. It is a really long story, long story short he is an ex riding school horse who started rolling with people on his back and he has been doing the same with me.
He is definitely a left brain introvert as he loves food,doesn't like repetition,very intelligent,can be dominant and basically the other traits.

He loves hacking and is very well behaved outside the arena.he loves jumping alot, he sometimes has lots of energy, and he is approx 20 years old! 

So Mystery is being difficult. What exercises can I do to help him trust me? I don't know what to do because if I ride him in the arena he will stop, I'll give him a small kick and he'll do a small rear then roll. He never did this before, until a while ago. And it can't be a health issue as he is very happy to hack up hills and trot on the road.

I seem to think he is fed up with 'riding school' stuff but I can't seem to help him see that he isn't a riding school horse anymore, my confidence is so low I'm sometimes afraid to ride him :-|

please please I really need help


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Hi, HorseLover123!

To my mind, you should hold off riding for now and go back to doing more groundwork. I'm no professional yet, so I won't be able to recommend anything specific, however, I'd advise you to read Rio Barrett's book "101 Horsemanship Exercise" - it has lots of great ideas.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

*I agree, groundwork, groundwork and more*

And do it in the arena. Since that's where the issue is. it sounds like it's less of a trust issue and more of accepting you as a leader, but I of course don't know. I would work on joining up with him to help him see you as a leader, and if he tries to roll when you are doing groundwork, work him faster. When he seems ok, allow him to go slower. Another roll, work him faster again, and back him up and switch sides with him fast, letting him go only about a half a circle before you switch him the other direction. A few times of that and let him go slower again in a circle and try to catch him before a roll, and back him up, and do the fast switching again. Anyway, these are just a few things I do with my mare when she's misbehaving.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree with morabhobbyhorse


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Does sound WAY too familiar. Those LBI's are SO tough. I have my first one, and they are FAMOUS for getting "sticky feet". It is so frustrating. I was fortunate to be able to spend the winter at a Parelli barn, and that really helped. I have done hourse of groundwork, and still do it a couple times a week. Still tho, he will get "stuck" and totally refuse to move. What you need to know is that the LBI's get bored easily (which is why they do this in the ring, and not outside). I have had to really tune into my guy, and once he "gets" whatever we are working on, we move on. You can ssee a difference in them when they catch on. They love patterns, but again, be careful not to bore them with it. Mine will sometimes just defy me! We will be doing something he knows...like groundwork....and he will get stuck and refuse to move. What my trainer said, which made a HUGE difference-once you know he knows it and is just refusing, ask once. The second time you ask DEMAND! SO, if he is on the 22 ft line, stops, refuses to go when I point and cluck-I step toward his butt arm extended and carrot stick flying. It only takes once. Same when I am on him. I ask once-then tap him with my macate or even my hand. He is catching on. I also had to let go of his head. The more you pull, the more they brace. We are now steering with legs almost 100%.
If there is a Parelli person who can help you, it is wonderful. It is so key to be in the right position and not to let them make you move your feet. 
Good luck-they are a challenge and will keep you on your toes!


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

The easiest solution is don't ride him in an arena at all. Use him for transportation. I would do that for a year before doing anything in an arena again. Why do you need to ride in arena? You can do everything and more outside on the road, in the trail, in the pasture. 

If at some point you want to try the arena again you always have to find ways to motivate him. With some LBIs that are already bucking or rearing etc to avoid whatever you want, you really need to think motivation and not force. Sometimes a whack on the butt is just the trick with ones that aren't too extreme but when I hear rolling or rearing I'm thinking a whack on the butt might push him over the edge or not but you have to be willing to deal with the outcome. As another member (marecare) said "extreme measures can result in extreme outcomes" or something along that line. 

There is a savvy club DVD with Linda working Remmer that might help you. She does all sorts of things to motivate that big doll. Like putting up barrels in the corners and preloading them with treats. Using reverse psychology so when he drags his feet ask him to move slower. I have an extreme LBI and I have to do all these things and more or else he will just take over. If I keep it fun, interesting but not overwhelming then he's great. And remember when it's his idea then that is completely different so you have to cause your idea to become his idea. Cool eh.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

TLO-I agree with some of what you say. However-not riding in an arena is just not realistic for some of us. If not for the indoor, I would not even be able to ride at all for months. Therefore, I have had to learn to keep him interested and motivated in the indoor, which he hates. It is a brain excercise, for sure, but it is a necessary one. Treats are a huge motivator, as are the predicatable pattern things-like a "box" in the middle of the arena we created one day with cones. All changes could only happen there. Within about 5 minutes, you could see him searching to go to the box, and the in it listening intently! It c an be amazing, but they can also be really frustrating.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I understand that F&B, but the OP talks about riding out so if she can then why not continue. I think a lot of people think they must ride in an arena. Also her horse is rolling and rearing so the problem has already patterned. I don't know about your horse specifically but for many LBIs what you're doing is just fine. When they start rearing etc then it can be more difficult to stop.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Easy quick fix. When he gets down to roll he will stretch his neck out. Jump ouf of the saddle and sit on his neck just behind his head. Use just enough weight to hold him down. Keep him there until he lets out a big sigh and relaxes. Be in the saddle as he's getting up. You played his game but it didn't turn out like he was expecting. Waiting for the big sigh is very important. When he's down, he's vulnerable to attack, especially so when he can't rise. The sigh means he's accepted his fate and is ready to die, except you, this wonderful person gets him up and he's ok. I'll bet this horse is real sick of ring work and would really enjoy the trails.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

OMG Saddlebag I have to hand it to you if you can do that! Have you actually sat on a horse's neck just behind the head? I could see some of my horses violently throwing me


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Yeah-I am picturing something like steer wrestling, only with a horse, with a longer neck+longer legs=more power. No thanks. I have no desire to go flying through the air. Good luck with that, Saddlebag.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

that would be ludicrously dangerous


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Maybe dangerous for LBI but for someone who knew what they were doing, I understand the concept. I did the same with a Doberman I rescued in a sense. She had really been abused and they couldn't get anyone to take her. The third morning she nudged me on the couch where I was asleep and I put my hand out to pet here. She snarled, and I came off that couch in a second and rolled her over on her back and straddled her, again a helpless position but for a dog. When I let her up she never left my side for 9 years. she was just afraid and wanted to know I was going to be the 'big dog' and take care of her. The element of surprise is the big thing.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I have also dealt with dogs this way. Horses-totally different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

*Well yeah, they are a tad bigger*

I still think what I said the first time might work. Besides I don't understand, unless it's bad weather why anyone would want to be in an arena anyway  Well of course unless they're training to show. I think it's too early and I'm still 1/2 asleep. How are things going now at the barn? (Say something to make this poor cousin feel less nervous :shock:


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

*bucket to bucket might work*

If your horse loves treats he might rather walk forward to get one than make the effort to lay down and roll. You could try placing a few barrels or overturned buckets out with a treat on top and see if he will walk to one, then another. 
If it works then try riding by one to the next, around the arena once before stopping at a barrel. Not having a treat on every barrel...


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Sounds as if the horse's riding school days have made him arena sour. If the horse is happy on the trail, then use it as a reward. Ride the horse in the arena for as long a you can, but not so long that he balks and rolls, rears, whatever. You have to feel when he's getting close to that stage, but before he does, leave the arena and take him on a nice hack. Even if you're only in the arena for five minutes before he starts getting crabbit about it -- doesn't matter. 

I'd also do groundwork with him in the arena, make sure he's yielding to pressure and moving his feet at your behest. 

Also, when you are on him, make sure that when he does his little half rears, you push him forward, forward, and more forward. The worst thing to do is say, "Oh no, he just popped his front end off the ground, I'd better stop pushing him." Horse will then say, "She backed off and released the pressure when I did that. Win." 

The trouble with Scotland -- the reason why it's useful to have a horse you can ride in an arena -- is that the weather sucks more often than not and especially during the winter, the footing on trails gets so nasty and muddy that you really wouldn't want to ride in it. 

As always, the trouble with asking random strangers on the internet for advice is that they can't see the horse, how he's going, how you're riding. Is there a trainer about? Where in Scotland are you?


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

*My mare does it all (bad things)*

The barn I'm at right now I'm leaving doesn't have an indoor arena yet, plan to build one this summer. So I didn't get to do a lot of riding this winter, or even groundwork because it would be too slick or muddy. At one point the road down to the outside had snow up to my poor little hobby horse's chest. (She's so high energy though might have been good to let her plow through that a couple times to slow her down) but we spent a lot of time in the barn grooming. or I'd use a soft rope and mess with her front legs because I want to teach her to hobble. She is intelligent and gets bored easily doing patterns, etc. but will do them for me. She's high energy lazy, and I'd say she's a left brain extrovert. Although I've never actually seen Pat's descriptions. She will occasionally do a little rear when I'm holding her too tight, which is often because of the trails she wants to be in the front. I do one-handed stops with her, and big circles to let the others get further ahead. She is actually good about riding out with other horses when we do it a few times but like I said it wasn't possible this winter. She also likes to toss her head around when she isn't getting her own way even on the ground. So I speed her up and she bucks and snorts and tosses then decides she doesn't like the half circles, or going that fast and will settle down. She's so alert I have to spend a lot of time keeping her attention on me. When I first got her, I had to join with her over and over and it was August and that was hard on an old fat lady in a pasture  I've worked her in a round pen and she's picture perfect in 15 minutes, turning outside or in if I take a step back, and the next time I'd do it she'd act like she'd never seen one, running around bucking, head tossing, squealing.....Where I'm moving her to next month I'm hoping to keep her a lot busier with less time to think of ways to drive me crazy. They have an inside and outside arena, do shows and gymkhana type things in the summer, trails all over. She is in serious need of some ride time. After 2 months of working with her after I got her, we had kids riding her from all the work. But she will constantly test you if you're not paying attention. She'll buck at the lope if she wants to be lazy and buck at the lope if she wants to go faster. I read the thread about when to call it quits with a horse because I sometimes wonder if I'll ever be able to stay ahead of her, although I've done it before. I got sick and had to stay away from her for months, and that's when things went downhill. We are really bonded although it may not sound like it from this. She doesn't run off when I go to get her anymore, that's a thing of the past. She sees me get there and is upset if I don't come to her immediately. Once we rolled together but not like this thread. When we had the inside after I rode her or worked on groundwork, I'd always turn her loose in the arena to roll. One day she moved from spot to spot but couldn't find the exact place she wanted to roll. So I laid down in the arena and called her name, and started rolling back and forth. She came over to my right side but not close enough to hit me, and rolled too. Once I turned her loose in the arena, she and I were 'riding' with my friend whose horse was Sienna's pasture mate, and all I had on her was a halter, we were just letting them mosey at will while we talked. I asked if I could take a spin on Emma when my friend went to the bathroom. I got on her horse, and Sienna, who wasn't paying the least attention, just looking for a drop of hay or something in the arena, saw us, and went and stood by the mounting block the whole time I was riding Emma. I've worked her in the outside arena before and it was hot so took a break and sat on the mounting block. Current BO brought Sienna's pasture mate in the arena to do ground work, and Sienna, who again wasn't paying the least attention to me, move so she was between me and the other horse. Maybe what feels to me like a bond is mere jealousy to her, but I know for all her bad behavior, that I'VE let her get away with, she's never tried to bite me, strike me or kick me. I just sometimes think the things she does is funny, and I'm slow to respond in correcting her. As many times as I've fallen from my lack of balance these days and her jumping sideways or bucking which I can honestly say is almost always my fault, she's never tried to hurt me when I was on the ground, I usually just startled her. I read that thread, a couple of times actually, but I just can't imagine her not being in my life. She came to me out of the blue when I needed her, and she needed me to promise I wouldn't hurt her, or whip her if she misbehaved. That she'd have a halter on that hadn't grown into her face and I wouldn't ignore her. I'd undo the tangles in her mane (when she came she was one big tangle, hadn't been brushed in so long) even if it bored her. That if she ran away I'd join with her again. Even if it was hot, and I got sweaty. And when she finally came to me I wouldn't mistreat her. I have gotten frustrated with her of course, but I always took a break and a few hundred breaths so I didn't lash out at her. 
I'm sorry, I didn't write a book intentionally, it just came out. Cheryl


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Holy... long post... LOL


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Sorry I was waning unintelligible, LOL


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Ahahah  no prob!


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

*I'm glad Ray*

I tend to wander when I'm unfocused (24/7) and glad you got the joke


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When the horse gets down the rider quickly moves to the mane side of the neck and with the reins forces the horse to lower it's head to the ground. The rider then kneels on the neck just behind the ears. If necessary one hand is placed on the jaw. The horse can't get up without it's head initiating the action. I've done this several times to different horses. In both instances the horse was kept down about 15 min. Both had a habit of rolling in water, a stream, large puddle, etc. Never had to do it a second time.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

*Hey Horselover 123*

Have any of these suggestions worked? How's your gelding doing? :?: Cheryl


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## HorseLover123 (Sep 28, 2008)

Hi guys! - sorry for not replying earlier, have been very busy between school exams and working with Mystery! Well I have managed to ride him, but only with no tack on. I ride him bareback with just a halter and leadrope as reins. He prefers this for some odd reason! I am getting his back checked just to make sure though!

Also, he is starting to trust me more. Yesterday he came cantering down the field when I shouted him  and I've only had him for 3 months!

He still tries to act up in the school, if I ask him to canter he will put his head down nearly touching the ground! and I have to pull his head up :-|
Sometimes I feel that when I start something new (like the bareback riding) he will very soon get bored with it! I have noticed he is cutting corners and ignoring me sometimes! And my confidence is a little better now I'm riding him in the school, but I still keep thinking he's going to try it! I have been keeping him busy with a few jumps since he loves jumping so much! It's difficult because he isn't exactly the youngest horse, I cant jump him too high or too often! ( Well atleast I think so lol ) :?

I still don't know how to get him to like the school, but he had years of being yanked in the mouth and booted by little kids! I can see why he doesn't like it! I've fed him loads of treats, which he loves! And Iv'e been riding him alone because he sometimes acts dominant when other horses are about! I don't know why this is, and the rolling with other horses in the school may be a dominant behaviour! (and sometimes mini rears)

Btw, going to a Parelli lesson with Ruth Carlyle on Sunday! There will be about 4 other people and their horses there as well  It's at a different riding school, I hope Mystery behaves himself, although he is genurally a gentle horse.. if there's food about he gets moody!:shock:


Thanks for all the replies! I will keep you posted - promise!



Oh and try keeping a white horse clean - not easy! :wink: haha


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

Well it sounds like things are moving along for you. And Mystery is beautiful. Good idea about the back, I don't think I ever thought to mention look for something physical first. WOW I wasn't all here, would be the first thing to do. I hope he does well at the other training, and it sounds like you're having fun with him which is the most important part!!!!!


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## Marlea Warlea (Apr 27, 2010)

trust exercise i have picked up along the way:


lead your horse forward with him just walking behind you and stop suddenly, if he keeps on walking throw your hands up on the air and make him stop/ walk back
then repeat, if he stops the milli second you stop give him a good rub on the fore head and a scratch in his fave place, continue


i know it doesnt really solve he prob but its still good to do


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Monty Roberts does somthing like that, only he uses the Dually halter.


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