# Watcha think of my hunter/jumper prospect? :)



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

When I cheated and looked at the breed I was shocked! Lol I thought he looked like a warmblood 
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## ponyjocky (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm sorry but his whole body screams quarter horse. that hip and head are dead give aways.


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## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

ponyjocky said:


> I'm sorry but his whole body screams quarter horse. that hip and head are dead give aways.


I am not good at guessing breeds!
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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I have no guess as to breed; however, I have some concerns about your horse's jumping form and the way he uses himself over fences. 

The first photo shows him with his forearm below vertical, and very loose below the knee with his right front. It always concerns me when I see a horse do something radically different with each front leg or be very uneven. He's making a huge effort with his back and head and neck, trying to compensate for the fact that he doesn't know how to use his front end. 

Second and third photo shows some improvement, but the overall impression is the same - not a tight front end, uneven and loose, overjumping dramatically with head, neck and body. Third photo also shows him engaging unevenly behind - usually a sign of unexperience or a badly balanced canter on the approach

IMO, this is a horse that is trying his heart out for you but lacks the basic skills to do his job. If he were my prospect or brought in to me for training, I would spend a *lot* of time increasing his fitness and working on grids and gymnastics. He would not be jumping single fences or courses for some time. In addition, when he started back jumping single fences, I would construct them carefully, with rolled out ground lines and lots of filler, to give him every chance to see and judge where he wants to wear his fences.. I would not jump with false ground lines or no ground lines until I felt he had advanced several levels in his jumping ability. 

You haven't posted a confo photo, but from the flat photos, I suspect he is straight legged behind. Fitness is extremely important for horses with this confo to avoid stifle problems. I would introduce hill work gradually and keep it as part of his routine.

Good luck with him, he has a fabulous attitude. A little training will go a long way with him


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## brodieluver26 (May 4, 2010)

Thanks everyone! And maura, why are you very concerned about his knees? Many horses have sloppy knees. He actually does tuck them sometimes so in the first picture it would make sense for him to be sloppy because of a close spot due to my own rider error. My trainer really hasn't said anything about his knees and it usually (if he does do slopped knees) is his right front because he is a little stiff in that shoulder. Mostly his canter to the fences are balanced but afterwards he tends to get the wrong lead or cross-fire. That would be my error also. Also that was the highest he has ever jumped before (the over jump picture) so he stretched his neck to clear it because it was new. And as for the confo pic I will try to get one up. My trainer didn't really say anything about his confo with his legs. And I'm working with side reins and ground work, but I don't think he has to go all the way back to the mayjor basics. I will however try gymnatics for him but he never seems to have a problem with jumping and no one has really said anything! I will take your critique into consideration and see what my trainer reccomends! 
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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am glad to see that Maura made her full explanation of her concerns , because I , too, immediately noticed how his front right forearm sags, and it made me remember a video posted by another member showing a spectacual fall she had when her pony caught his foot on the fence, due to not lifting his forearms enought That is why I felt concern when I saw the jump shots.
I am not a jumper, but I could see it right away. Listen to Maura.

The horse is a very typey QH , IMO.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Honestly? I do not like this horse's jumping. He lacks the freedom through his shoulder angles to proeperly use his front to clear fences at higher levels. He hangs his knees and does not fold well over fences in any of the videos I looked at. 

He is calm between fences but not enough forward and not collected between fences. He probably will make a 2'6" horse but from the videos, jumping is not his forte due to his conformation. 

He could improve between fences with work on learning how to collect and extend IN gaits. His canter is slow but not collected so you have nothing to extend on approach or over a fence. If you think of collection like a spring, you get your horse collected and round with _energy_ and you _release _the energy of that collection so the horse can extend over the fence. 

In the two stills to help him collect and move forward you need to sit up straight, drive him forward into your hands with your seat and legs. In the images you are leaning forward and he is just going along (which is also evident in the videos). 

None of this will improve his front end or his hanging knees which _can_ be dangerous as the horse is very much more likely to 'catch a rail' as he is going over a fence (which can cause a nasty wreck). 

He is a nice horse in his attitude and I like him, but not so much for jumping. I did not look at the breed but he jumps like many Quarter horses (and he has a QH rear end).


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## brodieluver26 (May 4, 2010)

Ok thank you everyone for the critiques so far. Elana even though I do not agree with you critique I thank you for it anyway. I will post confo shots and I don't expect to get perfect ratings on them. However, when you said jumping is not his forte, I completely disagree. Yes he is a quarter horse and they are not "breed" for jumping like the warmbloods, but he loves jumping. I know he is not a fancy breed for jumping but his forte is jumping, we tried manythings and he did not enjoy them like he does this equine sport. I've gotten many compliments on his jumping at shows. I do not show rated or high levels. He has come such a far way from when we first got him so I would like to give him credit. He is still learning so therfore I do not expect him to be perfect. My friends warmblood hates jumping even though he was breed for it, he does not have the attitude for it. He does tuck his knees and in the videos he did just not perfectly or super tight like some people prefer, I don't expect so since they were low and he wasn't trying. I do not jump him that high a lot, that was just a fun day with my trainer. I usually only jump 1ce to 2wce a week. Other days are lunging, ground work, and basic dressage training. So again I thank you for the critique and I don't want this to sound rude, I just get deffensive with my horse because he is my baby and I believe in his ability to jump. And I believe each horse has a different jumping style, like each golfer has a different approch to a put. My friends thourgoubred is the same with the legs, my horse is just stiff in the right shoulder somtimes. I know he isn't a warmblood and I don't expect him to be, he is a quarter horse that loves to jump and who is STILL in training. Confo or not he has the heart. So thank you for the critique, I know he isn't perfect to some but to me he is and I am going to continue to work with him.

For others, here is my last thread about hunters with my horse. Thank you.
http://www.horseforum.com/jumping/could-my-horse-transition-over-hunters-92294/
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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

You put your horse and riding up for critique. I simply indicated what I saw based on my experience both riding and training horses. 

If you did not want a critique, then you should not have requested one? Your response confuses me? However, based on that response I will not comment further.


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

I don't think they meant that he is completely hopeless, just that at this time he definitely needs a lot of work . I think he would go a lot better if you supported him more- this is especially apparent in your flatwork, where he is just going around on a loose rein. He isn't being asked to move out or use his back at all, and he isn't on the bit because he has no contact to accept. I think if you schooled him more on the flat with contact and asking him for a nice bend on a circle, he could really improve and be a great little mover. Put him on a 20m circle, get him on your outside rein by leg-yielding him out slightly, and ask him to rock back with a little half-halt. In your flat pictures, he is on the forehand and this definitely won't help with jumping! Once you elevate his forehand, I think he will have an easier time jumping.
Try to ride him more, rather than just sitting up there. I think that if you support him more, help him find his distances, help him stay balanced to and from the fence, he would improve lots. I would strongly advise gymnastics, just like maura said. Any horse can benefit from them, this horse in particular.
Your boy is so gorgeous, I think you've got a great little horse on your hands . Good luck!


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## brodieluver26 (May 4, 2010)

Elana, I appologize, your post came to me as you were saying he was hopeless, and that's all my old trainer ever said, was that " Your horse is hopless, he is nothing but a slaughter horse, your wasting your time money and energy, if I came to pick him out with your I would have never gotten this peice of rubbish." So really your critique was valued, I and just still sensitive about what my old trainer had said to me. She seriously almost forced me to sell him and I've been bothered about it ever since...

And arnz, thank you very much, he is still learning and I am still learning haha its hard not ebing on a push button horse like I used too! I have to fix my self to help him like you mentioned! I still find it hard to round him, do you have and idea that could help? I have him on side reins to help gain musle and he does great but when I ride him he acts like he has never hear of collection!  lol
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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I would never suggest you sell him or that he was a "slaughter horse". He is not "hopeless" but he is not a GP Jumper either. I think he will make an OK 2'6" horse. 

That being said, read the rest of the post. Read the post by anrz and maura. Your horse (and you as the rider) need to stop jumping and get back to foundations. There is NOTHING wrong with that and no matter WHAT you do it will help you AND the horse. 

Remember this. When you ride a horse through a jumping course (and you need to not do this with your horse now) start to think how much time your horse is on the flat doing collections and extensions and turns. Now think how much time he is in the air. Yeah.. not a lot of that latter part. Lots of time in between. 

He needs to learn how to collect, extend (think of that spring I alluded to) and transistion smoothly. You need to drive him forward and hold him with a half halt so he shifts his weight to the rear. He needs to be off his forehand (and to jump he must lift his forehand over the jump first). Imagine how much EASIER it will be for him to jump if he can shift his weight to the rear and lighten his forehand between fences. 

If you get a chance watch some videos (good quality ones) of Olympic level horses going over Grand Prix fences. They really collect and extend between fences. You will see them turn.. collect.. forehand light and then before the fence extend a stride, _still working with their weight off the forehand_ and then jump. It really IS like a spring.. but it takes a lot of time to train this. 

Your horse, whether a great jumper or not, deserves the flat training and gymnastics you have had suggested here. STOP taking him over a course and get back to basics. He is worth it and he will be ever so much better for it.


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## LikeIke17 (Mar 18, 2011)

I would have to agree with the other posts. At this point in time and looking at the photos you provided, I would not say jumping is what he's meant to do. His knees are uneven (as mentioned) and he seems fairly unbalanced.

HOWEVER I do believe that with the correct training and lots of time he could be a lower level horse. No, I don't think he'd really be in the ribbons but if he does it and you enjoy it, then what does it matter? I think you need to go back to basics with him and teach him how to use his body properly over the fences. While doing this, brush up on your skills to give him more support (as mentioned) so you can be a supportive, helpful rider for your green horse.

Not much but just my two cents.


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## brodieluver26 (May 4, 2010)

Ok thank you for the posts for far.! A new winter is coming for just flat! Thank go for indoors! Lol and no the ribbons do not matter to me! Even though he did just get champion last week in wtc  but thanks for the posts, keep them coming. And yes there is only lower level in my area for both hunters and jumpers! The highest is 2 9 for where I show. Just average horses in my area no big names! I don't plan to seriously compete! Lol thanks to all so far!
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## Wancata (Dec 6, 2010)

From what I have been reading, Brodieluver, you have a trainer that you work with regularly, and it is in our nature to trust our trainers. As well as seek the advice of other equine people around us. I think everyone has posted a question on here expecting a certain critique or answer, and feel a little let down when you don't get it. Its not a big deal.

You also said you weren't doing any major showing or anything rated or recognized.... So for that purpose, I would say, He's cute as a button! I like him! What a fun color. Long legs in that canter shot, I wouldn't have said QH right away. I see it now that its been said, but whatevs. He looks fun! 

Take what the experienced trainers on here have told you and enhance your training with it. We all do "homework" when we're not with our personal trainers. If he likes jumping, the right training will get him where HE wants to be. And thats where you want him to be too!


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## brodieluver26 (May 4, 2010)

wancata thank you for your opinion. yes he is a little cutie when he wants to be.

for everyone else, here is a semi good confo shot, i couldn't fit his head in it haha


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

How tall is he? He makes the jumps look TINY! Lol.. maybe it is because he is overjumping a bit. 

Love the color. Everyone else covered what I wanted to say.


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## brodieluver26 (May 4, 2010)

Haha thanks he is black, bleached in those pictures, and he is only 15.3! Lol
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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

OK. From the confo shots I can tell you this much. He jumps hanging his knees because (as I suspected.. and as is typical of the breed) the bone from his chest to his elbow lies at too low an angle (from level). He hangs his knees because he cannot fold.. the angle is already folded. 

I can also tell you that from his neck musculature his neck is not "turned over" and shows a greater muscle on the under side (along the juglar groove) than along the crest. This changes with proper riding and in a horse that works off his hind quarters. 

Now.. to improve this there is more you can do. Break out the Caveletti and have him trot over them. They will need to be gradually raised so he must really pick his feet up over them.. this will build his abdominal muscles so he can stretch his top line and learn to get round and drive with his hind quarters when you are schooling off the caveletti on the flat. 

Do you have any nice long steep hills? Trot him up those and let him have his head so he can lower it and build the abdominal muscles while learning to lengthen his top line. 

Other than his shoulder angle, he is a nicely conformed horse (not slaughter material). He has good bone and low hocks. Might be a bit tied in behind the knee. The shoulder angle would not bother him much doing other things.. but it is the cause of his dropping his knees over fences.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh yes.. and as to color.. he is not what we call a true black (they have no white and do not fade). He is really a seal brown.. and that is a very very nice color. It appears black but is really a very very deep bay with black hairs dominating through out the body but with enough brown hairs to keep you guessing. 

Seal brown is not a real common color IMO and is often put on the papers as black.


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