# Neck reining in a snaffle?



## BrewCrew (May 12, 2010)

Unless we're showing and a curb bit is required, I use a snaffle.



Equus_girl said:


> I think it is because when I neck rein one way the bit pulls the opposite way sometimes. So I am wondering if I should be using a curb? Would it stop the pulling opposite directions? Thank you!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To properly neck rein, you shouldn't be putting any 'pull' on the rein, the rein should just be brought up and laid across the neck. If you do it right, with soft hands, the nose shouldn't tip to the rein side at all. Maybe she needs a refresher lesson where you just plod around the round pen for a while doing circles and 8's. Ask with the outside rein by picking it up on their neck, and if the response is not what you are wanting, Tell by bumping the inside rein. HTH.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

You can neck-rein in a snaffle, but the reason people always say not to is what you just discovered--it's hard not to interfere with the opposite side of the mouth, and thus confuse the horse.

You have a couple of options:

1. Practice neck-reining until you learn not to interfere with the opposite rein.
2. Get a curb, assuming she's been trained in one and is used to it, but you'll still need to practice neck-reining some more or else you might end up having some of the same problems.
3. Switch to some sort of bitless bridle or hackamore, which will allow for both neck- and direct-reining without the interference problems.


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## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

Also when you are neck reining make sure you are using your leg ques properly as well as using the reins. When you lay the reins along the neck make sure you aren't crossing the neck or pulling harder to turn sharper. If the horse isn't turning as fast as you would like then you need to slow the horse down and use more leg. If that doesn't work then give a little pull on the other rein to reinforce your intention.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

BrewCrew said:


> To properly neck rein, you shouldn't be putting any 'pull' on the rein,....


Exactly. I horse that neck reins well will 'stay between' the reins with just the feel of the rein on the neck and no pull at all on the bit. If you're getting in her mouth, you may need to lengthen your rein also.


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## Crazy Love (Mar 7, 2011)

If you are neck reining correctly, there should be no pull on the horse's mouth. Neck reining is a conditioned response. The horse was ridden with direct pressure (two hands) for a long time with the neck reining there as a reinforcement. Eventually the direct pressure can go away because the horse learns "every time she pulls on the right rein i feel the rein lay across the left side of my neck." With neck reining there is no pulling on the mouth at all. If your horse is not responding to the neck cue you need to go back to direct pressure and two handed riding and recondition the neck response.


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## Equus_girl (Jan 25, 2009)

Thank-you for all the help! I really appreciate it! I will work on just laying the rein on her neck and see how that goes. I'll reinforce it with direct pressure if needed. I prefer to stay with the snaffle, but I was thinking that maybe you needed a certain bit when you neck rein.


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## Crazy Love (Mar 7, 2011)

In horse shows, western riders ride with a shank (leverage) bit because of the loose rein western pleasure riders ride with. Because the reins are so long the horse needs to be able to feel the slightest pick up on the reins. This means the bit has to be a lot more sensitive. The longer the shanks (prong looking things that come down from the mouth that the reins are attached to the end of) the more severe the bit, and the longer the rider's reins can be. A horse with a shank bit is a "finished" western horse. The bit is not harsh as long as the rider stays out of the horse's mouth, which shouldn't be a problem as the horse should be neck reined. But you can still neck rein with a snaffle, that's how the horses are taught.  You just probably won't be able to have a ton of collection on a super loose rein. Or you might. It just depends.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

are you suggesting the difference between a "finished" horse and any other horse is the equipment a finished horse wears is more severe, so to a 3rd party the horse appears to be more sensitive to it's rider? even though that appearance of sensitivity is entirely an illusion and that horse isn't actually any more sensitive than any other horse, the rider just has to use his hands less?


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Christopher, are the spurs in your avatar floating?


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

christopher said:


> are you suggesting the difference between a "finished" horse and any other horse is the equipment a finished horse wears is more severe, so to a 3rd party the horse appears to be more sensitive to it's rider? even though that appearance of sensitivity is entirely an illusion and that horse isn't actually any more sensitive than any other horse, the rider just has to use his hands less?


I believe that the wording in the post you are refering to may be just slightly confusing, and I don't think it was meant to suggest that.

I expect an experienced, 'finished' horse to be very light...in the mouth, seat, and leg _regardless of the equipment_ requiring only very subtle cues.

The use of a snaffle v. a leveraged bit is an equipment choice of how to deliver that subtle cue, e.g. it will take less rein with a leveraged bit compared to a snaffle to deliver the same pressure. A similar comparison can be made for spurs v. no spurs with regard to the leg.

Relative to only neck reining, the cue is to the neck, not the mouth, so the bit really shouldn't come into play.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

PaintHorseMares said:


> The use of a snaffle v. a leveraged bit is an equipment choice of how to deliver that subtle cue, e.g. it will take less rein with a leveraged bit compared to a snaffle to deliver the same pressure. A similar comparison can be made for spurs v. no spurs with regard to the leg.


that doesn't mean the horse is actually more sensitive, it just means you have to give smaller cues to deliver the same pressure (as you said) which as i said creates the illusion of sensitivity.

to adress the OP using that thinking, if you have to make contact with the horses mouth regardless of what kind of bit you use with the neck rein then the horse obviously doesn't know it well enough, at a walk what you should do is enforce laying the indirect rein over the neck with a direct rein and a drive with the outside leg (in the order of indirect rein then direct rein and drive at the same time). that'll teach the horse to tip it's nose and follow through with it's shoulder away from the indirect rein.


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## vikki92 (Dec 18, 2010)

almost all my horses neck rein and i use a hackamore. all you should have to do is slitly lay the rein on whatever side neck and they should turn. on my horse Dolly i dont even have to use leg ques, i just lay that rein on whatever side of her neck and she turns, just depends how much pressure to how much of a turn she turns. hackamores = bet headset for horses neck reining!!


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## Crazy Love (Mar 7, 2011)

christopher said:


> are you suggesting the difference between a "finished" horse and any other horse is the equipment a finished horse wears is more severe, so to a 3rd party the horse appears to be more sensitive to it's rider? even though that appearance of sensitivity is entirely an illusion and that horse isn't actually any more sensitive than any other horse, the rider just has to use his hands less?


 Nah, not necessarily. It's merely a term with the understanding that this horse has gone through quite a bit of training. But a "finished" english jumper has an entirely different meaning behind it. It doesn't mean they wear a curb bit. It means they're good at what they do. But in the western world, you want to be able to ride with one hand to use the other for roping, opening a gate, etc. (or just for the show pen). Just because a horse can ride neck reined doesn't mean they're trained correctly or completely. Many "neck reined" horses are not bending their neck and body correctly when that opposite rein is laid on the neck. But usually when a western person refers to a "finished" horse, it's understood that the horse is neck reined and can ride on a loose rein. When a person watches a "finshed" western pleasure horse, that person shouldn't be able to see the rider giving any cues at all. So yes, they are more sensitive and obedient is because the horse has been trained to respond to a very small amount of pressure. And the rider is using his body language and subtle cues correctly and it communicating efficiently.
In general, "finished" means that that horse is doing what he's been trained to do. And that he's doing it obediently and effeciently.


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## Crazy Love (Mar 7, 2011)

PaintHorseMares said:


> I believe that the wording in the post you are refering to may be just slightly confusing, and I don't think it was meant to suggest that.
> 
> I expect an experienced, 'finished' horse to be very light...in the mouth, seat, and leg _regardless of the equipment_ requiring only very subtle cues.


Sorry 'bout that...that's what i meant


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## Crazy Love (Mar 7, 2011)

christopher said:


> to adress the OP using that thinking, if you have to make contact with the horses mouth regardless of what kind of bit you use with the neck rein then the horse obviously doesn't know it well enough, at a walk what you should do is enforce laying the indirect rein over the neck with a direct rein and a drive with the outside leg (in the order of indirect rein then direct rein and drive at the same time). that'll teach the horse to tip it's nose and follow through with it's shoulder away from the indirect rein.


I am referring to the use of a small amount of pressure when you pick up on the reins slightly to aid collection. Not really making contact with the horse's mouth when turning.
(i do agree with you about turning though)

also, sorry about posting three times, oops


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