# Collection? getting a rounded neck...



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking "if my horse's head is down, it means they are rounded." This is incorrect thinking and will lead to problems down the road. 

Here's a post I made a long time ago:



> Consistancy is the key here.
> First, if your horse is young, I wouldn't worry so much about the headset as *impulsion* and being forward. The headset can come later. If your youngster pulls a lot, you have to teach him (him, right?) the basics of self-carraige; don't let him pull on your hands, much less lean on them. He can carry his own heavy head, you shouldn't have to!
> To get a youngster (or any horse, come to think of it!) to get a headset, they must learn self-carraige. You want your horse to be able to move freely and loosely through the body, with forward *impulsion* and the ability to supple to the inside and outside either direction, before asking for headset. Headset should not be a priority with a young horse. I would rather see a youngster with flowing movement and its head above the vertical than a short-necked, short-striding horse.
> Okay, so onwards and upwards:
> ...


ETA - please let me know if you'd like me to delve deeper. And yes, this was a post regarding a young horse, however the same principles go for older horses as well.

ETA II - Don't forget to reward the horse - if he's done well, then let him walk out on a loose rein for a few minutes, then resume work. If the horse is not used to carrying itself in a frame, then working in a frame will be fatiguing.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Wow Great advice Allie!


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## FledgeOfNarnia (Apr 18, 2008)

I agree with JDI. 

Collection isn't just a rounded neck. It's the way the horse carries itself.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Just to add - DO NOT sacrifice your position to the horse - keep your hands up in the correct position and don't use a "low hand" as it turns into habit.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with some things said above. First of all, a typical dressage headset is not a "swan-neck". A swan-neck is the result of a pulled in neck broken at the 3rd vertebrae.
What we want to think of when we are riding is not riding forward, not riding in a headset, but riding in balance. A balanced horse is a happy horse, and it is when we try to achieve a frame through either pulling our horses into one, or running them into the bridle that our horses become unbalanced and unhappy. Yes a balanced horse is one with a forward thinking stride and he will carry his own head and neck, but we do not create balance through the application of these two results. 
In order to achieve balance, we must first ride our horses in a correct stride. They should be absolutely rhythmical, like a clock or metronome and they should feel as if they are taking you forward. Never push. Ever. It is almost as big of a sin in riding as pulling. The horse must go forward from your leg and you must never ever push or pump in your seat, back or leg. Then you just shorten your reins with a soft, steady arm to create contact. Keep your elbow soft, and stay toned in your back with your shoulders back. Never pull back. Create the movement into the bridle and let the horse find the contact, the stride and the frame absolutely naturally.
The best analogy I have stumbled upon is to think about making the horse's spine longer. Just 1/16" at a time, slowly make it longer and longer, and through this length of spine the horse finds his balance.

I would highly suggest finding a good trainer in your area and taking weekly lessons, also taking lunge lessons on a schoolmaster will help you develop your feel and teach you the feeling so you can teach your horse. Keep up with your reading and audit as many dressage clinics as possible. Learning dressage is a very long road, good luck


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## RoostersMom (Nov 19, 2008)

It sounds like you wish to get your horse "on the bit" as we say in dressage. The most important thing is to get your horse relaxed and supple first and always going forward (even at the walk), use half-halts to get your horse to engage from behind and create impulsion. Do not crank on your horse's mouth to try to get him into a correct frame. You will only get a resentful horse. Gently pick up a steady contact on the reins (keeping your hands low and quiet) and as you feel a soft contact with your horse's mouth, feel it give freely. Getting your horse "on the bit" doesn't happen over night. It may take alot of riding forward with gentle, steady contact with easy give and take and plenty of half-halts as you go along.
But once you get it, it's a wonderful feeling.
Be patient and ask a trainer for help. 
But whatever you do, don't try to force it!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I was using the "swan neck" analogy as representing a higher neck carraige, not breaking incorrectly.


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## Fellen (Mar 29, 2008)

The most important thing to use are your legs. When you are giving constant presure with your legs the horses head "has" to go down, because the horse tences up his stomach muscels and therefor relaxes his back muscels, which lets the neck-back band (I'm not sure if you call it that in english?) strech, which makes the horse move more comfortably. You notice it's easier to sit when the horse is trotting for instance since the back is more elastic. A lose tail that hangs loosly a bit rounded is a great indicator. 
Don't throw away your hands! When your horse relaxes his back muscels, which lowers his head you want to slowly pick up the rains (befor you should hold the rain short enogh that you DON'T pull but not long enogh so that they hang through). Basically your horse is asking for the bit and you "give" it to him. Your elbow, wrist, rain and bit should be one straight line. You shouldn't have alot of pressure on the bit but the horse is suposed to use the bit as help. I can't think of the right word to discribe it... Anyway that's basically as far as most people can take it. After that you work on more Impusion, straightening your horses natural unbalance and THEN you come to collection (compleatly engaged hindquarters, horses head comes higher naturally, compleat self carrige and so on) 
Yes, this is the ideal way things work. I can only speak for myself but it gets pretty frustaiting when your horse decides that rules don't apply to him/her. But If you keep working on yourself usually it turnes out you were the one doing the wrong thing...
Hope you can understand some of what I'm trying to say. Basically use more legs and don't throw away the rains!
Hope you find a salution.


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## Nadia (Nov 16, 2008)

I make sure my horse is relaxed. These days it's all about "Pull into position" method. If your horse is holding his bit. Go to halt and squeeze your hands. It doesn't hurt for a horse, it just puts pressure into his mouth. His will want to escape from the pressure and will go on the bit and let his bit go.


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## Jacksonlover (Nov 16, 2008)

thanks every body for your help. the other day when i rode i used a a combination of leg pressure, and half halts! if worked REALLY well. Jackson(the horse) was really listening, i never used my crop on him. he dropped his really low, and i was able to comfortably trot w/out my stirrups. My trainer was thoroughly impressed too! My trainer didn't explain it as well as you guys did. But she told me to do some leg yeilds to make him more responsible to my legs. and after all that work, he was happy i wasn't constantly in his mouth, and i was happy my arms weren't ready to fall off! Thanks again!!!

but know that i have accomplished that, how would i slow his canter down, and get him to hold his head normal? right now, his head is WAY up in the air. And whats a good way to get him into the canter? as off now, we take him into a slow trot and verbal tell him to canter and smack him with my crop, it doesn't seem very effective, he gets to the canter, but its just a lotta work.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Smacking a horse generally fixes nothing unless you are punishing them WHILE they are doing something wrong, which is difficult with a high headed horse.
When a horse has their head in this high position, they are getting a shot of adrenaline, so the last thing you want to be doing is smacking him, as this just adds to the horse's anxious feelings.
Again, to fix both these problems, work on your balance and your horse's balance. A balanced horse will be able to canter at generally any speed you ask them to. Don't get anxious in your posture, or grab the horse's mouth. Just continue on quietly and balanced and let him get balanced under you. Keep your elbows and arms soft and stretch your upper body up tall and your leg down into the ground. He should slow down. To fix the canter transitions, first get him accustomed to a voice aid on the lunge. Sidereins are useful and make sure to have a long whip to crack him if he doesn't canter from your voice aid. Once he has this down pat then undersaddle, put your outside leg back and keep the rest of your body the same, and use your voice aid and praise him in the canter.
Always remember to praise him when he does something correctly. Horses are quite responsive to the tone of your voice so a happy, soothing "good boy" does more than you think  good luck!


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## Jacksonlover (Nov 16, 2008)

so will trot circles work too? thats what i have been doing. i use my out side leg and and use my outside rein by using a lttle pressure, and after about 3 strides if he hasn't taken it, i pop him on his outside shoulder with the crop in my outside hand. and if that didn't work, i usually pop him behind the saddle. and i do all that in a circle. 

Thanks for the advice!!


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