# Banamine IM?



## aforred (May 12, 2010)

My trainer, who was a vet tech for many years, told me to never give Banamine in the muscle. I just saw a picture on Facebook (and yes, I know you can't believe everything you see there) that showed a horse with huge holes in her neck that were attributed to a Banamine injection. My vet had me give my mare an IM injection last week, and so far, no reaction like that, thank goodness.

So my question is, does anyone on here give it that way? Has anyone seen a horrible outcome attributed to it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I may be wrong but most of the time a banamine shot is given in the neck it's in the vein..I've given my share of shots IM, I'm not confident enough to give in the vein so if I have to give the shot I do it IM..

Now, I am far from an expert or vet so don't take too much from that. I haven't had to use banamine shots too many times myself and usual vaccinations are done at my vet's office.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Yes, I have one buried here who received a shot before the complications were well known.

Any shot can cause problems but Banamine more so due to whatever is mixed with it, it creates the perfect environment for organisms to thrive & cause gas gangrene.
It's still labeled for use IM but my suspicious nature makes me believe that is due to fear of lawsuits from the manufactuers if they admit there is a problem.
People still give it IM though, even some vets, without problems but no way I ever would nor would I allow any vet to. It's not a risk I'm willing to take. Now & then I come across a vet who still recommends the IM & that is a vet I would not use as I think they have not kept up with the research or are willing to take a chance with my horse that I wouldn't take.
Sure, the IM is given often without problems but if there is a problem it's terrible.
If someone needs to give Banamine & can't do the IV, the injectable can be given orally (without the needle of course). It won't work as quickly but it will still work without the worry.
They make an oral paste which is handy to have around.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

Just give Banamine orally. If you are injecting it IV you must be absolutely sure you go in the vein or you you risk perivascular necrosis (like you saw on FB). It is still very effective orally, it just takes a bit longer to act. And I am a veterinarian so I am very sure about this!  Personally I don't like the paste because I have seen too many people accidentally give the whole tube, mistaking it for dewormer or because they were confused on how to dose it.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

natisha said:


> It's still labeled for use IM but my suspicious nature makes me believe that is due to fear of lawsuits from the manufactuers if they admit there is a problem.
> 
> People still give it IM though, even some vets, without problems but no way I ever would nor would I allow any vet to. It's not a risk I'm willing to take. Now & then I come across a vet who still recommends the IM & that is a vet I would not use as I think they have not kept up with the research or are willing to take a chance with my horse that I wouldn't take.
> Sure, the IM is given often without problems but if there is a problem it's terrible.
> ...


 
FYI - Banamine is the brand - flunixin is the actual drug.

Schering lists the issues with IM use:

Medi-Vet Animal Health - Detail1 - 10393 - Banamine (Flunixin Meglumine) Injectable Solution, 50mg/ml, 100ml - Horse Medications, Medical Devices & Supplies - Search By Brand - Medi-Vet Animal Health


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh my.. yeah, I won't ever be giving shots myself again..


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I do all my own shots and, touch wood, have never had a major problem. I did have a site reaction to a Strangles shot before there were nasal Strangles vaccines, but that's been the worst of it. 

I have given banamine in the neck, back before we knew of the problems, but now I give it IV or oral if the horse is either too dodgy for me to be comfortable going for the vein or if the horse's condition is poor enough that I question whether I would be able to hit the vein. And of course, any time I think I can't accomplish something, I leave it for the vet. 

One thing I do that I've not seen a lot of horse people (or livestock people in general) do is, I clean the injection site right down to the skin, every shot, every time. I don't want to push a pathogen IN when I stick them with the needle. So far in almost 50 years of being with horses, I've not had any injection site abcesses, again touch wood.


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## Tigo (Feb 25, 2012)

I've given IM shots over and over again and never heard of complications like that....so forgive me if this is a silly question, but wouldn't the possibility of those complications occuring be present with any IM injection, not just banamine? (*hopes this doesn't come off as completely naive*)

My horse is prone to colic so we keep banamine handy and my coach would always administer it to him IM (I'm 99.9% sure as I recall) without any adverse side affects. How common is this side effect of perivascular necrosis??

Tealamutt, is orally administered banamine given at the same dosage as it would be by injection? The reason I ask is that I've never heard of banamine given orally. You learn something new everyday!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Tigo said:


> I've given IM shots over and over again and never heard of complications like that....so forgive me if this is a silly question, but wouldn't the possibility of those complications occuring be present with any IM injection, not just banamine? (*hopes this doesn't come off as completely naive*)
> 
> My horse is prone to colic so we keep banamine handy and my coach would always administer it to him IM (I'm 99.9% sure as I recall) without any adverse side affects. How common is this side effect of perivascular necrosis??
> 
> Tealamutt, is orally administered banamine given at the same dosage as it would be by injection? The reason I ask is that I've never heard of banamine given orally. You learn something new everyday!


Yes, the dose is the same. They make a paste that is easy to give & measure.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

if you have a queasy stomach don't open this link. It shows a Banamine reaction. I tried to find the nicest one to post. Yes, they can be worse.
It is a rare occurance but if it happens to your horse that fact means very little.
BANAMINE NIGHTMARE


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## Tigo (Feb 25, 2012)

Wow, that poor animal. I couldn't imagine having that happen.....

I'm glad to have stumbled across this thread. I'll have to talk to my vet about keeping some of that paste on hand. If it works equally as well, then I would see no point in risking your horse's life using it IM. As someone who hadn't heard of this before, thank you all for shedding light on this.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If he doesn't have paste, you can put the liquid banamine into their food. I hide it in soaked beet pulp with a little grain mixed in and they slurp it right up.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

That is the one and only time I've ever given it IM. I was out of the paste, as was my vet, and I've never been taught to give an IV shot.

Natisha, thanks for the info. I didn't realize you could just give the dose orally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

Our vet warned us about this when we asked for banamine for our first aid kit many years ago.
(We trail ride and camp far from vets...) My husband was a Navy corpsman and he can do IV injections. So far we haven't needed it, but friends have and we've given an injection. I think if you're going to get meds from the vet, they need to make sure you know what you're doing. We never give banamine if a vet is coming, because we don't want to mask symptoms. But when you're in the middle of nowhere?... Yeah. It becomes invaluable IF you know what you're doing.

If you're not sure, stick with the paste/powder.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have not read all of the responses, so forgive me if I am being redundant.

NEVER, NEVER, never give Banamine or Bute IM. Both can be caustic and can have reactions on top of that.

But, you can give either very easily and with NO problems by giving them orally. Just squirt the injectable Banamine or Bute into the corner of a horse's mouth. Give it just like a dewormer.


It is just as effective and at the same rate as when it is given IV. It takes a little longer to work on a severe colic, but not by much. If you do not like to or do not feel competent to give a shot IV, just squirt it in the horse's mouth and you are good -- and so is your horse. It beats waiting hours for a Vet. I would not use a Vet that did not let me keep some emergency prescription Meds at the ranch. I would also expect him/her to give me authorization and details on how to use them over the phone if I contacted them in an emergency. My Vets have done this many times. It has to be part of my Vet -- client relationship if they want my money and my business -- which amounts to several thousand dollars every year not to mention all of the referrals I give them.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Y'all are making me think God that nothing had happened when I was the one to give my horses Banamine IM.. Learned something new and I DEFINITELY won't be allowing any Banamine IM in the future unless it is absolutely positively needed, and only then by my vet.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

HagonNag said:


> My husband was a Navy corpsman and he can do IV injections.


AH, but did your husband's patients weigh 1200 lbs with an attitude to match, complete with head tossing? 

I'm sure he is competent but please make sure you have a vet show him on a horse, it can actually be quite different than in a human. The carotid runs close to the jugular if you go a little too low. Nothing wrong with doing IV injections yourself if you are comfortable with it, but do make sure you know where your landmarks are and check a couple times throughout the injection to make sure you're still in the vein!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

tealamutt said:


> AH, but did your husband's patients weigh 1200 lbs with an attitude to match, complete with head tossing?
> 
> I'm sure he is competent but please make sure you have a vet show him on a horse, it can actually be quite different than in a human. The carotid runs close to the jugular if you go a little too low. Nothing wrong with doing IV injections yourself if you are comfortable with it, but do make sure you know where your landmarks are and check a couple times throughout the injection to make sure you're still in the vein!


Just wanted to add -arterial blood will be bright red on the drawback, while venous is dark red. Only inject if it is the darker & this is where experience let's you know what you are seeing.
I've been doing human IV's for a long time but I still won't do horses. I'm a chicken.


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## Skyebird03 (Apr 29, 2012)

My mare had a mild case of sand colic about a year and a half ago. Until then, i had never given shots ( and she wasnt to thrilled with receiving them). My vet gave me some Banamine to keep her comfortable for a few days. She got the injection twice a day and I was told my the vet to give it IM. She never had any serious side effects until a few days after she was given the last shot. She developed a baseball sized pocket of infection around one of the injection sights. I asked around and was told that "it is possible with all injections". It took months for that knot to go down. I had asked fellow "horsie" friends about it, my vet, and my farrier. Everyone told me to just keep an eye on it. Eventually it did go down and since then I have had to give a few other injections to my horses consisting of different things. I have never had this problem again...

Anytime Banamine is prescribed now, I use oral


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## sehrlieb (Dec 15, 2009)

Last year in my area there were several cases of horses dying from infected injection sites from IM banamine shots. Our vet seemed to think that using expired banamine greatly increased the risk?


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

natisha said:


> Just wanted to add -arterial blood will be bright red on the drawback, while venous is dark red. Only inject if it is the darker & this is where experience let's you know what you are seeing.
> I've been doing human IV's for a long time but I still won't do horses. I'm a chicken.


Actually color is not really reliable unfortunately. Best way to know is to put the needle (no syringe) in first. If it sprays 10 feet in the air, ARTERY, if it pours out, vein.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

tealamutt said:


> Actually color is not really reliable unfortunately. Best way to know is to put the needle (no syringe) in first. If it sprays 10 feet in the air, ARTERY, if it pours out, vein.


Yikes, now for sure I will never attempt it! I'll happily pay a vet.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

NEVER EVER give banamine IM. ALWAYS GIVE ORALLY unless you are experienced with IV

Banamine orally starts working in as little as 10 to 20 minutes......when I gave it to my filly when she was colicing and I noticed improvement at 15 minute mark....and by the time 30 minutes had passed she was back to normal.

Super Nova


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

tealamutt said:


> Actually color is not really reliable unfortunately. Best way to know is to put the needle (no syringe) in first. If it sprays 10 feet in the air, ARTERY, if it pours out, vein.


This would only be true if you put the needle in the neck going down not up..............with the syringe attachment being the highest point if it is an artery it will spray....if it is a vein it will dribble out........if the syringe is going up into the neck then it will be hard to tell as the blood will just spill out as gravity takes over.

Color is not always an indicator......hence why most of the new vets are inserting the needle downward into the neck vein.

Super Nova


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