# This is horrible..



## JumpingJiminy




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## Muppetgirl

What do you find so offensive? Horse bucks, riders does a pretty fantastic job to stay on and spank the horse for bucking......rider gets dumped......happens all the time.....if a horse bucked with me I'd spank it's rear end too......:shock:


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## JumpingJiminy

This is not how you break a horse. He wasn't just smacking it when it bucked, he also whacked it several times after it had stopped and was standing.


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## tinyliny

I wondered about that, too. Why she smacked him once he stopped bucking. 
I wonder if she was putting a leg on to say "go" and he was ignoring her?


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## Joe4d

looks like the horse was bucking because of the smacking.


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## Muppetgirl

Did they actually say that this horse was being broke? Or we're they joking in the title? That horse could have been so humped up under that guy when it was just standing there.......that he wanted it to get the buck out....
What's he supposed to do when it bucks then? Just let it? Fall off? What do you suggest he does when a horse drops its head like that?

And yes Tiny, he was probably smacking it because it wasn't moving forward unless it was bucking......

This is not all that unusual.....


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## Mochachino

To me it is pretty clear they are smacking the horse to get it to buck.


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## JumpingJiminy

Muppetgirl said:


> Did they actually say that this horse was being broke? Or we're they joking in the title? That horse could have been so humped up under that guy when it was just standing there.......that he wanted it to get the buck out....
> What's he supposed to do when it bucks then? Just let it? Fall off? What do you suggest smene does when a horse drops its head like that?


When I'm on a horse that is bucking, what I have found is that if you smack its butt for bucking, it's going to buck bigger and harder.

What I would suggest is not causing the buck. Depends on the horse - put it on a circle, get it listening, there are far better options than what this man is doing.


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## COWCHICK77

My internet is a little too slow to play the video smoothly....

So from I would gather is that if he had a habit of getting out of work by bucking, he also probably learned to get out of work by sulling up. I would spank him too if that is the case.


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## Muppetgirl

JumpingJiminy said:


> When I'm on a horse that is bucking, what I have found is that if you smack its butt for bucking, it's going to buck bigger and harder.
> 
> What I would suggest is not causing the buck. Depends on the horse - put it on a circle, get it listening, there are far better options than what this man is doing.


Sometimes getting the horse and in a circle to listen only applies to nice horses.....

And sometimes you don't need to cause the buck.....the horse decides he wants to buck and not you......

That horse was being a turd......if he was terrified he'd be running and bucking and really throwing himself around.....he was plain being naughty....


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## JumpingJiminy

Muppetgirl said:


> Sometimes getting the horse and in a circle to listen only applies to nice horses.....
> 
> And sometimes you don't need to cause the buck.....the horse decides he wants to buck and not you......
> 
> That horse was being a turd......if he was terrified he'd be running and bucking and really throwing himself around.....he was plain being naughty....


Indeed that is very true, but from what I can see, this man is causing the buck. Several times the horse had stopped and was walking forward and that would immediately be responded to by the crop/whip.


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## Mochachino

Next step in training... desensitize horse to the crop.:?


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## Muppetgirl

JumpingJiminy said:


> Indeed that is very true, but from what I can see, this man is causing the buck. Several times the horse had stopped and was walking forward and that would immediately be responded to by the crop/whip.


Yeah but from what you can see and what he can feel can be two totally different things......that horse could've been humping up to buck under him and he was spanking to let it know that it's not making a good choice.....we can't feel that from just watching.....

Also it's not that uncommon for someone to just have to ride a bucker out like that and make it buck and spank it so it learns that buckings a no-no.....

For all we know that horse could've been bucking that rider off all week......and this day he got fed up with it.......

Said my piece........


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## Roperchick

Well A you can't really judge from a YouTube video...or any video for that matter. He could have been asking he horse to move and it didn't listen, it could have been humping its back or not responding at all 

And you can't really judge a persons techniques if its on YouTube...and you aren't there watching/and or riding said horse

Jmo


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## sinsin4635

Looked to me like the dude was doing it on purpose. Getting him to buck,to show off or whatever.


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## Hidalgo13

I agree that it looked like it was done purposely. It would sort of explain why the person filming was laughing. I don't' know, if my friend was riding a horse that wouldn't stop bucking and she kept smacking him to regain order, I wouldn't be laughing the whole time like it was some joke. :/


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## frizzy

Hidalgo13 said:


> I agree that it looked like it was done purposely. It would sort of explain why the person filming was laughing. I don't' know, if my friend was riding a horse that wouldn't stop bucking and she kept smacking him to regain order, I wouldn't be laughing the whole time like it was some joke. :/


Totally agree with this.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing

Looks to me the horses would of stopped bucking if he quit smacking it with the whip. Needs some whip desensitization thats for sure. I used to barrel race on a OTTB and she would buck if you smacked her on the hip even in a gallop. Some horses just don't like being hit back there and they tell you


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## Sharpie

All I see is a failure. I don't know what issues the horse had or the human did, but somewhere along the lines, humans failed to use our so called smarts and train this horse properly. Ill fitting tack, bad attitude horse, angry human, sulled-up horse or 'cowboy' doesn't matter. Just a sad video to me- I don't see that any good came of anything the rider did and the horse has now had at least one chance to learn that bucking is a valid way to get rid of a human that is doing something he doesn't like.


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## Kathe Smothers

When a horse bucks it is because you have lost forward motion. Smaking a horse becasue he bucks is not going to solove the bucking problem. You need to have your timing and feel so that when you feel the horse making the change from moving forward to wanting to stop, drop its head an buck you are prepared and can send them forward before they start bucking. You send them forward through you seat and leg. Smaking them can only scare them more. If you have done your prep work correctly prior to saddling and getting on, your horse is use to you being above them and are much more accepting of you when you get on. I start colts for a living and very seldom do they ever buck the frist ride. If they do I have not done my homework correctly. I have worked with Buck Brannaman for 21 years and I follow his methods because they are intended to keep the human safe and the methods are soothing to the horses and they understand what you are asking from them


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## BornToRun

I had to go to youtube to read the video description. This is what the person posted in the description. "**TO CLARIFY!**
I have had nothing to do with Imperial Horses Ltd, nor is it me riding/videoing or any other connection to this 'company' - I simply have reuploaded the video for proof for the authorities" There were also links to a facebook page, a website, and another youtube video that doesn't work. I'm assuming they all belong to this group called "Imperial Horses."


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## HorseCrazyTeen

It is very obvious that the stupid girl riding the horse is smacking it to make it buck.


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## LexusK

Ugh, this is so not the way to go about it.. whatever IT is, its just wrong and dangerous - for both the horse and the rider... although I'd like to see the rider knocked down a peg or two. No good came from this.


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## my2geldings

Joe4d said:


> looks like the horse was bucking because of the smacking.


I agree.



Mochachino said:


> To me it is pretty clear they are smacking the horse to get it to buck.


 I agree.

It's to bad the rider didn't get seriously hurt.

People like that should be shot. I feel absolutely horrible for that poor horse. It's devastating there are people like that "training" horses. Disgusting. I hope karma catches up to her.


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## Copperhead

Its all just a big joke to the person video taping and the person riding. The horse doesn't need desensitized to a whip. The horse needs to respond to a whip, and they are using it's response as a joke.

The whip is to reinforce the leg. ONLY. It should not be used to "start" a horse or to change gaits. Thats what your leg is for. I did not see her use her leg and ask that horse for a higher speed. I just saw the whip.

You do not lace a horse repeatedly. I've laced a horse once or twice while riding due to the refusal to move. They get it after that sting and I don't have to do it again. This is AFTER a well broke horse has been asked to move with leg over and over to no avail and AFTER the horse had been tapped with the whip (to reinforce leg) and downright refuses. Then they got the whallop. One time, and they didn't need it again.

At one point in time, the horse was cantering well for three strides and the girl laces him for a reaction, to which he gives it. Lacing a horse is not the proper way to desensitize it to the whip, if thats what she was trying.

This is a classic example of "whip to buck". That horse will need a trainer now.

She wasn't trying anything though, except to ride around and whip at a horse for bucks and giggles.


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## jaydee

I'm pretty sure they werent trying to desensitise it to the whip - more likely its a horse that has a bad bucking habit and they are trying to get it bored with bucking by forcing it to buck until it eventually sees it as not a cool thing to do - Its a form of reverse psychology - I have seen it work but not to be recommended unless you can stick on because if you dont the horse sees it as a win for him and you're back to square one.


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## churumbeque

JumpingJiminy said:


> This is not how you break a horse. He wasn't just smacking it when it bucked, he also whacked it several times after it had stopped and was standing.


 Yes that was weird. Poor horse seemed to get hit most when it wasn't bucking. I feel sorry for the next person that inherits the problems caused by those poeple


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## churumbeque

Muppetgirl said:


> Yeah but from what you can see and what he can feel can be two totally different things......that horse could've been humping up to buck under him and he was spanking to let it know that it's not making a good choice.....we can't feel that from just watching.....
> 
> Also it's not that uncommon for someone to just have to ride a bucker out like that and make it buck and spank it so it learns that buckings a no-no.....
> 
> For all we know that horse could've been bucking that rider off all week......and this day he got fed up with it.......
> 
> Said my piece........


 He spanked it most when it was not bucking. It took three nice strides and he started whipping it and then it bucked. You don't hit a horse on the rear with out expecting a reaction.


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## Lexiie

That's just an odd video. It's really hard to see what the smack was for.
It looked like the horse was crow hopping and wanted to buck, and then was smacked. At one or two points, I thought the smack was for no reason, but they were also on the far side of the ring.

A smack isn't my favorite retort to a buck, I like a nice, tight circle, and then MOVE. No buck, then we get to walk, like a good horse. lol


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## Muppetgirl

jaydee said:


> I'm pretty sure they werent trying to desensitise it to the whip - more likely its a horse that has a bad bucking habit and they are trying to get it bored with bucking by forcing it to buck until it eventually sees it as not a cool thing to do - Its a form of reverse psychology - I have seen it work but not to be recommended unless you can stick on because if you dont the horse sees it as a win for him and you're back to square one.


Exactly my point too! What the rider is 'feeling' and what people can 'see' are two entirely different things. Yes, the person videoing it might have been chuckling, but if you've been to enough and seen enough horses being ridden out like this nothing seems 'horrible' or 'terrible' anymore, it's the nature of being around horses long enough that you can identify some humor in it. This was child's play compared to some of the extreme cowboying I've witnessed.
For all we know that horse was a flipper and the rider would rather have had it go forward and buck then stand still and come over on him and split his skull open.....


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## AnrewPL

Chavs and horses are a bad mix.


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## COWCHICK77

AnrewPL said:


> Chavs and horses are a bad mix.


"chavs"??? I do not know what that means, would you please explain?


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## Muppetgirl

AnrewPL said:


> Chavs and horses are a bad mix.


You're right!


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## Copperhead

Making a horse buck seems to be a bit backwards in the way of training.

I've ridden a lot of buckers and I get them through it by ignoring them. "Sure, you can buck if you want, but we're not going to stop working." I don't discipline for bucks. I kick them in the ribs because a buck is a refusal to go "forward", and a kick in the ribs is a reminder to go in that direction. I've never whipped for a buck, it invites another buck and encourages the habit.

The sessions should be about work, not focusing on the bucking. The horse can do whatever the heck it wants to do, but we're stilll working. It doesn't matter if the apocalypse is happening. After a while when the buck is ignored, the horse will no longer do it because there was no reaction when it happened other than "Yeah, right. More work".

Telling it to "buckbuckbuckbuckbuckbuck!" instead of giving it something to refocus on is backwards. In training, you redirect the negative energy into a positive step, you don't focus on the negative and make them perform bad purposefully.

There was a couple times she smacked that horse for no good reason. I don't care what the story is, I would have taken her straight off the animal. I will never believe that this is appropriate, or an appropriate way to break a horse out of bucking by lacing it over and over again. A whip should never be used this way. Thats why too many people consider it an abusive device instead of a training tool its meant to be.


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## Muppetgirl

COWCHICK77 said:


> "chavs"??? I do not know what that means, would you please explain?


I'm thinking this:
Urban Dictionary


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## COWCHICK77

Muppetgirl said:


> I'm thinking this:
> Urban Dictionary



Ah! ok, never heard that term before...LOL..
Thanks!


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## AnrewPL

Yeah, kind of English version of irritating, inconsiderate, obnoxious, etc and so forth people I guess, we call them Bogans in Australia. I just heard the sound of the person filming and thought she sounded like a chav.


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## LeahKathleen

To me it is apparent that they are making that horse buck for the camera. The person filming is laughing, and I believe at one point says, "[Horse name?] has some buck in him, eh?" like they've never seen him do it before.

Even if the horse were bucking like that unprovoked, that is definitely not how I would attempt to get control of my horse.


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## gogaited

Muppetgirl said:


> What do you find so offensive? Horse bucks, riders does a pretty fantastic job to stay on and spank the horse for bucking......rider gets dumped......happens all the time.....if a horse bucked with me I'd spank it's rear end too......:shock:


From what I saw, the idiot was smacking him to make him buck. Because when the horse stops, the abuser smacks him again as a "reward." Way to "break" a horse, you stupid jackalope. Would that someone would take a whip to you and break you in.


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## WSArabians

Wow... Putting a horse over a human's life? That's scary. 
HF scares me when it gets borderline PETA.


That was a **** impressive fall, that's what I'm gonna say. I sure as heck don't roll and jump up like that. :shock:


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## bubbleslove

Ignoring bucking doesn't always work - personal experience there. Some horses say "oh, so you don't mind if I do that? Well don't mind if I do" and then escalate. My mare went from a little ****y pop up in the hind (which would get her a pop on the shoulder with the reins and a growl) to full on bronc bucking. The only way to fix that little habit was to confront it head on. Took a few rides, but now she's past that almost entirely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## goneriding

.....and why is he bucking? To me proper training has been either rushed or is/was non existent. Someone needs to whip the rider and the person taking the video, idiots.


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## OliviaMyee

aahahhahha i havent watched the video but what i have in my head "fights over horse spanking lol"


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## texasgal

The most "horrible" thing about this video is the obnoxious laugh....


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## Inga

Mochachino said:


> To me it is pretty clear they are smacking the horse to get it to buck.


 
That is what I was seeing as well. I never get into the videos where some morons are standing around watching an animal being manhandled while they laugh like idiots. If all of us watching the video cannot make sense of what the rider is doing, how could they expect the horse to understand? I have managed to train several horses from foal up to show horse and have NEVER had to ride and beat a horse. There are many ways to train horses but some are more humane then others. I would never suggest what was happening in that video as a good option. If a horse is bucking like that with a rider, they might want to start with soundness issues and saddle fit before trying to "beat it out of the horse." Just a thought.


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## apachiedragon

After doing a little digging, I have learned that the RSPCA has been involved, as the owners sent this horse in for more training and had NO IDEA this was how the poor horse was being treated by these abusive trainers. The "trainers" responsible are shutting down websites and trying to get rid of evidence. Does that sound like the actions of someone who was simply "correcting a bucking habit"? No. I don't think so. Hopefully they will be able to do more than just give them a slap on the wrist. This is just awful.


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## JessXxX

Ok this was a pretty big thing a while back in the UK it was all over Facebook and forums. Horse and hound had a pretty long thread about it. These people were so called 'professionals' this horse had been with them for just a few hours they literally took him off the lorry and jumped on him, the horse was not a bucker or anything malicious just simply young and green previous owner had not had the time for him due to other commitments and he was sold to these people through a friend of the owner who had no idea they were like this. I've seen videos of the horse before he was sold to these people and he was lovely. As soon as someone contacted the previous owner and showed them the video they were disgusted and immediately arranged to have the horse picked up when they got there this poor guy had welts all across his hind end and was pretty distressed. The RSPCA got involved, the website for this 'company' was taken down and the horse was swiftly taken to the vets for a quick check up and then back home. This was a sweet young horse that was being punished for no reason straight after travelling quite a way. The woman that owned the company is rumoured to have been the girlfriend of the spindles farm owner not sure if you guys woulld have heard about that but it was the biggest case of horse abuse the RSPCA have ever encountered. Hope this clears things up the thread is probably still on H&H somewhere if anyone wanted to go see. The owner of the horse actually commented there.


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## JessXxX

H&H thread: How NOT to ride a young horse forward. - Horse and Hound Forums

Videos/thread about horse previously: 4yo Potential BE - Horse and Hound Forums


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## Muppetgirl

Jess, your posts may be removed, I don't think you're allowed to link to other forum.....


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## JessXxX

Oh really? my bad aha feel free to remove it mods if against the rues people can go fins it if they really want. Sorry!

Just wanted to show people that this little guy wasn't a problem horse


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## Copperhead

I'm very happy that this issue was resolved. There was no training in that video at all and hopefully the horse was set back on course and doesn't have any long term lingering issues after they rescued him.

That was just plain abuse. Some very nasty stuff happened in that video. What kind of idiot does that and videos the evidence?!


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## PaintedBandit

That video is appalling! There was NO reason to be using the crop at any point in that video! I saw leg use ONCE and I'm thinking it was probably an accident judging on the rider's other behavior! That poor horse is going to need a good trainer and a lot of TLC.


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## JumpingJiminy

I haven't checked back on this post in quite a while but thank you so much Jess and whoever else may have helped with that information. It's good to know that I wasn't just being ridiculous as a few thought I was.


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## 3PaintMares

Glad to hear the horse was rescued from this abuse and yes that was abuse. Just another so call "trainer" whose in it for the money and look for quick ways to "train" horses by using pain and other torture methods. These people make me sick, I can't stand horse abusers and the laws in this country are to loose and weak. Slaps on the wrists and piddly fines is all these abusers get most of the time. Is it just me or does the amount these abusive trainers seem to be increasing lately? just seems like every time I turn around there's another in the media. 
This is why us horse lovers need to stick together and help horses to be safe from this type of abuse. Keep up on trying to add new laws and straighten existing ones on the books. Informing people of these abusers and expose these abusers to other horse owners if the law does nothing. The internet is a powerful tool and a great alli to use to help keep our Equine friends safe from these sick people. This is what scares me of handing my horse over to any trainer without fully checking into that person. Heck I don't let anyone even touch my truck to change the oil. I just love my girls too much and don't want any harm come to them. To me there equal to us humans in regards to a right to life. Call me crazy if ya like but I'm just horse crazy that's all.


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## Reckyroo

I'm no expert and watched the video multiple times and especially at about 38 seconds, the horse seemed to be moving forward quite steadily, and he still continied to whip it! Lets see how fast they move if we whip their ar*es :-x Poor horse xx


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## Reckyroo

This is the same horse in a different video posted by his owners:





 
Showing there was no problems (which still doesn't excuse the treatment even if he did have issues) xx


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## jaydee

If a 4 year old was jumping this nicely you have to wonder why the owner couldnt sell it to a decent home and it ended up on a yard that seems to have a long standing and well know bad reputation to be 'sorted out' dont you?
Did they maybe push it too hard and turn it sour and unwilling?
The UK market might be bad but good reliable horses are still selling


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## JessXxX

jaydee said:


> If a 4 year old was jumping this nicely you have to wonder why the owner couldnt sell it to a decent home and it ended up on a yard that seems to have a long standing and well know bad reputation to be 'sorted out' dont you?
> Did they maybe push it too hard and turn it sour and unwilling?
> The UK market might be bad but good reliable horses are still selling



This is what the owner had to say about why the horse was sent to these people:

'Just to put a few things straight,The decision to sell him was a purely unselfish one in that I wished to give the horse an opportunity to reach his potential as I did not feel at this time I could finance what was involved as I have other horses as well.What he was sold for did not cover 10% of my financial input into him but sometimes you have to take the knock and think whats best for the horse in these bad times in the horse market.The lady who sold him on my behalf did so in good faith having been recommended these people by the original breeder.We have all been very cautious with vetting potential buyers for the horse and there was nothing outwardly that would lead you to believe this situation would arise they had a website and seemed to be selling some reasonable horses ,there is only so much you can do .I feel also that the people who have been looking after him up until now have not been represented fairly in that He was being sold for the reason stated and not because I had any problem with the way he was looked after in fact he was always kept to a high standard and I would never say any different.'


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## jaydee

JessXxX said:


> This is what the owner had to say about why the horse was sent to these people:
> 
> 'Just to put a few things straight,The decision to sell him was a purely unselfish one in that I wished to give the horse an opportunity to reach his potential as I did not feel at this time I could finance what was involved as I have other horses as well.What he was sold for did not cover 10% of my financial input into him but sometimes you have to take the knock and think whats best for the horse in these bad times in the horse market.The lady who sold him on my behalf did so in good faith having been recommended these people by the original breeder.We have all been very cautious with vetting potential buyers for the horse and there was nothing outwardly that would lead you to believe this situation would arise they had a website and seemed to be selling some reasonable horses ,there is only so much you can do .I feel also that the people who have been looking after him up until now have not been represented fairly in that He was being sold for the reason stated and not because I had any problem with the way he was looked after in fact he was always kept to a high standard and I would never say any different.'


 This case has actually been ongoing on a UK forum since November and its unlikely that any prosecutions will be made - horses get treated like this all the time when they get sold onto dealers yards for a quick fix to be sold on again - most dealers arent interested in taking time to get from A to B. I dont think the horse had been ridden for some time when he landed with these people. 
This is their website I believe and it does look professional and they do sell a lot of horses but like all dealers they have their methods which the general public dont usually get to see.
LLF SPORT HORSES - *Home
They have taken down the website attached to the horse in this video


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## JessXxX

jaydee said:


> This case has actually been ongoing on a UK forum since November


Yup, I live in the UK thats how I know so much about it, it was a big thing round here aha


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## Copperhead

Goes to show you that no matter how careful you are, you never know the true nature behind a smile or reputation.


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## EventingxxElise

But they smacked the horse before it bucked


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## my2geldings

That video makes me so ill. I hope this rider gets injured severely to get what she deserves and learns a lesson herself.


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