# Types of Natural Horsemanship



## Five Furlongs (Feb 7, 2010)

I am currently working with the Parelli program on level 1/2. My horse seems to enjoy the games and things but once i moved to level two, I just couldn't get her to understand the very beginning of what we were supposed to do. So I am now moving back to level one (I did the beginning of level one last winter and continued this winter, we took a break from it in the summer/spring). I was a little frustrated with the lack of results I was getting, although I am sure it is something that I am doing wrong/haven't figured out yet. Anyway, I began reading some of the posts on here about Parelli and noticed many people did not like the program. I do not know if these people tried the program and it didn't work, or if they just decided it looked stupid (which I did at first as well). I was wondering what other types of Natural Horsemanship these people recommend doing with their horse to build a relationship. I am not getting the desired results with Parelli (I am still planning to work hard with it to try and obtain the results i want because we have only worked on it for a couple months, since I can't really ride much in the winter, its good to keep her entertained ). Thank you for your input.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Five,

What were the "desired results tha you were not getting? I mean specifically?

What do you suppose you were doing wrong? I am interested, not trying to be sarcastic or anything.

I have a question for you and any other Parelli Practicioner. When you do each game, do you know WHY you do it? What is the purpose of it? I mean, in the long run for developing a good riding horse.

I think that for me, some of what I have seen with Parelli trained horses is that the horse tends to do the required movements out of rote, and once they do , the trainer moves on to the next step and the next, without really looking at their horse and saying, " does my horse need this?" or "Is my horse any different after doing these 7 games than from when I started?" "Is my horse in a frame of mind that he is ready to be ridden? Is his mind with me now"

I have seen horses worked doing Parelli and the horse is doing the movements, but his mind is not really with the trainer. He knows stuff so much by heart that he just does it half hearted , and the human is so focussed on moving on to the next step they aren't really aware that the horse is not WITH them mentally.

So, that is one thing that can happen when you go through "levels" for the sake of going through levels.

The other thing I don't care for is that the horse often becomes so desensitized to pressure that it then becomes hard to get the horse to do newthings. A horse that is sensitive enough to pressure to move off of it is necessary to do any decent trianing/riding. 

That's my opinion, as it stands now, based on my limited experience. But then, aren't all opinions that way? As long as they are open to change. I would like to meet and know more horse owners that do Parelli to have more chances to mellow my opinion.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

I use Clinton Anderson mainly!! He's great! Check into that. It doesn't hurt to incorporate different techniques in your training. Whatever works is how I get the job done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I tend to use some techniques from many "NH" trainers. I personally like Clinton Anderson the best, but I feel they all have something to offer, and the more I learn the more "tools" I have. All horses react differently to different situations, so what works on one horse in one situation may not work on another. John Lyons, Chris Cox, Josh Lyons, Frank Bell.....I have gotten something from each. 

I will say that for the winter I moved to a "Parelli" barn. I had some anxiety about totally Parelli, but have learned a lot. And yes, the 7 games are all to help you accomplish something under saddle. Most of the NH people have some variation of them. 

I am also not a huge beleiver in just watching DVD's to train. Just doesn't work for me. I need someone to help me sometimes, as just a foot in the wrong place can mess with your results. I still can't do "sideways", but my horse sure can...with anyone but me! I just can't get that one!:wink:


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## wheeler4x4 (Dec 10, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> I tend to use some techniques from many "NH" trainers. I personally like Clinton Anderson the best, but I feel they all have something to offer, and the more I learn the more "tools" I have. All horses react differently to different situations, so what works on one horse in one situation may not work on another. John Lyons, Chris Cox, Josh Lyons, Frank Bell.....I have gotten something from each.


^^ definately agree, this is exactly what I was going to say. I have gleaned methods from Parelli, Lyons (both), Anderson, and Gawani Pony Boy, I dont believe that just one method works for every horse, so I take a mix that work with me and my horse. If one thing doesnt work then try another method, and by no means should you feel you "need" to move to level two. If you feel you have gotten good results and gotten a good relationship with your horse, maybe thats enough. I think people feel they must complete all the parelli levels, but you dont want to base your training on parelli, you want to base parelli on your training, if that makes any sense.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I admit I don't know a lot about Perrelli. I've done the 7 games & really don't see that much difference in what they teach compared to everyone else.
What is the point of the different levels?


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

The more I learn about the Parelli setup, the more opinionated I'm getting. The 7 Games I still feel are a brilliant introduction to handling a horse. It involves de-sensitizing, sensitizing, yielding to pressure, and yielding from a distance (NOT the same thing--many people stop the yielding to pressure, which is a close-contact thing, and wonder why their horses begin to walk all over them) and disengagement...I think that's it?

And it's fairly safe. But how many of us need more than that? I agree advanced Parelli-trained horses are trick horses, and I can't see the value in a lot of what they do, except as tricks. (Except their movements aren't cute, or particularly interesting to watch.) They also spend a lot of time doing things in "natural" frames, when, if you're aiming for a riding horse, you should be getting on with whatever sport you want. I understand Linda is only just now coming to understand what riding on contact means.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I would suggest if you are having issues to contact a Parelli Instructor via e-mail. You will get some amazing help! I've been involved with the program for years and am a dedicated student, it's worked on every horse I've touched since learning it....what issues are you having specifically?


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP IS NATURAL HORSEMANSHIP ---PERIOD. I all refers to applying pressure and releasing that pressure at the exact moment the horse offers the correct response. This is the way a horse responds to any and all pressure placed on him in his herd structure and in his environment. 

It is a very simple concept but a very difficult one for humans to implement. There are a 100 different way of applying pressure and only one way to release it. But, timing is everything and being able to 'read' a horse is a necessity. Know when and how much pressure to apply are paramount as is knowing what kind of responses a horse is ready to do correctly without confusion.

1) Never ask a horse to do anything that he is not ready and able to do.

2) Ask (apply pressure) in a way that he understands and the correct response is the easiest thing for him to do.

3) Quickly interrupt unwanted responses and immediately 're-ask' in a clear and concise way. [This is NOT the time to punish the wrong response -- only interrupt it.]

4) Stay with it until you get a reasonably decent response. When you give up, he can only think that he has done the right thing because that is when you took the pressure off of him. Simply as that.

The biggest problem with NH is that many people get lost in the details and never develop good 'feel and timing' so it never works for them to advance to get a safe, ridable horse. Their timing is bad, so the horses get confused and frustrated and many of them get just plain mad and 'ill' about it. I have seen so many 'Parelli' disciples with mad (ears back all the time) sour horses, that I now, do not even go to look at one for a 4-H family or for a saddle horse for a customer or friend if it is advertised as being 'Parelli' schooled. 

Of all of the clinicians I have watched on TV and the ones I have personally seen, I tend to like Clinton Anderson the best. I see him getting quick and concise responses and 'fixing' things quickly. He goes on to the next step without confusing the horse or the handler / rider. His focus on the ground is on quickly getting control and leadership going so that you can move on to training a horse to ride. He does not get lost for weeks, months or even years on playing games only to end up with a horse that cannot be ridden. To me, Parelli is marketing genius and a way for a clinician to get rich, much more than a way to teach someone how to train a really 'broke' horse in a reasonable amount of time. 

I recently saw a Craig's List ad that read -- "For sale or trade -- 8 year old parelli trained gelding that knows all 7 games. Will trade for a horse that anyone can ride."

That is my opinion of playing games. If a person wants a well trained horse under saddle, find a trainer or mentor that will teach you how and when to apply pressure to a horse and how to read a horse so that you can develop timing and feel.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh so true! I'm backing you 100%! But to incorporating the games and other techniques are beneficial. How I taught myself initially is watching herd dynamics. That's Natural Horsemanship!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Five Furlongs (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks everyone,
What I am really looking to do is create a strong relationship with my horse that I feel I don't have right now. She is 12 years old and already has good ground manners and everything else I just don't feel like she really trusts me and I have had her for 3 years. I am interested in monty Roberts join up methods. What does anyone think of this? I just feel stuck I'm one spot with her and I don't know where to go from here to further our relationship.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I am not a Monty Roberts fan. I think he is a spinner of wild tales if not an outright liar. I do know his story has changed many times according to his own tellings. One does not have a problem remembering the truth. He seems to have problems along those lines.

He, like anyone else that understands 'round-penning', knows how to put pressure on a horse at the right time and release that ressure at the right time. Do it right and ANY horse will 'face up' and follow the person in charge. The best Nationally known clinician that I have ever watched do this is Stacy Westfall. She is really good at it.

The whole thing about 'bonding' and 'having a relationship' is mostly BS to fit the novice 'horse huggers' desire to have their horse 'love' them like a dog does. Horses, as a herd animal, operate off of respect and the desire to be accepted by their herd. Giving treats, hand feeding, petting and loving on one does not count for nearly as much as making them show absolute respect. 

Any good horseman can handle a horse, get complete control of its movement, teach it absolute respect, and most of those horses will follow that person anywhere. 

There are exceptions that are just part ofsome horse's nature. Some are more 'aloof' than others and are less dependent on herd members. I had a mare that was very well trained and sold for a lot of money, going to an owner in the UK. She always made me walk out to her to catch her, while all of the others came to the gate when they saw me. I don't think she ever made a mistake in all of the time spent training and riding and using her, but she never got real friendly. I still have her 21 year old mother and she has been like that all of her life, also. I also still have her 7 year old daughter. She is just like that, too. They are just aloof horses that can take or leave human company as well as horse company. I really do not care as long as a horse behaves well and interacts properly with me. 

If having a horse 'in your pocket' is desirable, then some horses just never satisfy those owners. I can always sell the ones that want to be 'pocket ponies' first -- not because they are better horses but because a lot of amateurs like pocket ponies.


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## luvmytobipaint (Jan 1, 2011)

Cherie said:


> I am not a Monty Roberts fan. I think he is a spinner of wild tales if not an outright liar. I do know his story has changed many times according to his own tellings. One does not have a problem remembering the truth. He seems to have problems along those lines.
> 
> He, like anyone else that understands 'round-penning', knows how to put pressure on a horse at the right time and release that ressure at the right time. Do it right and ANY horse will 'face up' and follow the person in charge. The best Nationally known clinician that I have ever watched do this is Stacy Westfall. She is really good at it.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you on this.....what sort of training would you suggest to a beginner/novice horseperson? I need something to follow not just keep trying this and that and see what might work. I don't like that and I don't think it's good for my horse either.


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## Five Furlongs (Feb 7, 2010)

I agree with you tobipaint! I think that is what I am looking for as well. Also I don't care if my horse is a "pocket pony" I just want her to be happy and enjoy her time with me, where now I feel that when she is not in the places she feels safe(i.e. her paddock, the ring, the barn, places like that) Then she just doesn't trust that nothing will happen to her. Not that I think I can completely take away her spookiness but I want her to feel a little more comfortable around me.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

To luvmytobipaint & fivefurlongs, I'm going to disagree with just about all posters here & say that skipping over to MR's round-pen techniques likely isn't the answer, because Level 1 has what a beginner needs to get with the horse, & *learn safety* with the horse, IF one diligently studies the program (its purposes, the 4 responsibilities of the human, the 4 responsibilities of the horse, the 8 principles, etc., the principle of Love, Language, & Leadership *balanced* in equal doses, etc!) Also, please remember that *all that your horse has to go on is your* *"feel";* how you present yourself, & you must first feel (accept, hear, be receptive to your horse's energy, for your horse to then feel back to you & then you can go someplace together.) Parelli *absolutely teaches feel*, yet people seem to lose sight of how important it is in the flurry of sticks & strings, & techniques. The result is that a horse learns the 7 Games, but they're just boring/torturous, because the good feel between horse & human got lost/never got built up (& part of that is the principle of being *provocative *enough to not bore your horse!)

Successful PP students study hard to leave nothing out & the most basic element to "leave in" is feel, is the relationship, which *is *meaningful to the horse.

Hope that helps!


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

I forgot to give one caveat: The home study courses might not turn out the success stories that they could because of the fact that the student's learning alone: no doubt, it helps to have an experienced mentor on scene, or at the least, another beginner learning with you.


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

Five Furlongs said:


> Thanks everyone,
> What I am really looking to do is create a strong relationship with my horse that I feel I don't have right now. She is 12 years old and already has good ground manners and everything else I just don't feel like she really trusts me and I have had her for 3 years. I am interested in monty Roberts join up methods. What does anyone think of this? I just feel stuck I'm one spot with her and I don't know where to go from here to further our relationship.


Hi five furlongs I am going to go in a different direction than every one else. Your horse is 12, has good ground manners and is able to be ridden with no problems? Have I got that correct? In my opinion I think that messing around with games at this point is going to be counter productive and I believe will send your relationship with your horse backwards because it is going to get sick of you nagging at it. Personal experience has lead me to believe that the best way to develop a relationship based on trust is mileage. I suggest that you start doing some serious trail rides that challenge your comfort zones and the horses. The best way to develop a riding partnership is to ride, ride, ride. Start pushing your horse through things that it is not comfortable with, leave it with no choice but to trust your judgement and you will be amazed how that horse will begin to rely on you. You can not develop that kind of trust in a round pen or with games.


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## fess1960 (Jan 25, 2011)

I like the Dennis Reis Approach which is similar to Pat Parelli with a few differences,
mainly the need for getting our horse in tune with your body language in that you are "riding from the ground"...good example is teh circling game whihc PP teaches as Impulsion where a your horse circles you while you stand in a spot, while the horse goes around behind your back, what does that teach him? We do the circling game with the horse in our sight at all time so that he can read our body language wiht every step. CA to me brings in a lot of anthropomorphics into the lingo so people think that a horse is like a human it is not.
A horse doesnt think "I am getting something past the human by getting in the trailer" for instance, he lack subtlety and sells Tom Thumb bits in his catalogue, as well as a snap on a rope halter? that tells me a lot. And what they hell is wiht the tie ring, you teach your horse not to pull back by making it pull back? I could go on...but wont
I went to the source Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance and found the clinic that was closest to their style in my opinion. Yes a lot of wet saddle blankets are necessary but you can use the ground school to teach the horse a lot before you get up .
Of course any of these guys are great and have followers who do better than me...so glad we live in a day when this NH thinking is prevalent.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I agree with many things here and funny most of it doesn't contradict. I think that horses bond with humans a lot if there is some common adventure - trail riding is a great way to do that. My husband thinks it's like a video game since you never know what's around the corner LOL

In all fairness PP does suggest that too - use your horse as transportation. It's meaningful to the horse. Northern you're right too feel is so important:

with focus you will get feel
with focus and feel you willl get timing
and 
with focus,feel,timing you will get balance.

I think PP's program is structured very well but for someone starting you need to get a real human to help you too no matter what program you follow.


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

Pretty much everyone who has posted before me has a great point.

I do use the Parelli program, and I pretty much would swear by it for my gelding. I do not watch any of the videos, however. You can do alot with a video. If a horse doesn't cooperate, you can crop it out. Pat and Linda wouldn't want themselves to look bad on DVD if something did happen. Nor would any other trainer of any species with any other style of training.

I have a trainer who teaches Parelli Natural Horsemanship, and it helps alot to have her there coaching me through. She has great horses that are a real example of what that program can do. It works great for my gelding. He is a more high-energy, very intellegent horse who likes to see what he can get away with. (In horsenality, he'd be a left-brained extrovert.) But I have a mare that is trained in something completely different. She knows nothing of any natural horsemanship, and Parelli works nothing for her. (She's a left-brained introvert.)

It all depends on the horse, and you can always adjust it for your horse, as long as you are adjusting it for the better, not for a way that is more aggressive or something.


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## ZLund (Aug 8, 2014)

I love so many of the Natural Horse "Listeners". 

The most important thing is to enjoy yourself and allow the horse to have fun too. Don't be critical of yourself and sometimes just allow yourself to BE with your horse. Go for a walk in nature and just let the horse graze and wander with you (if possible) with no schedule.

I like so many of the Parelli methods and I Love to watch Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling too. He has and inner peace about him and his body language alone speaks to the horses he interacts with. 

Many youtubes of him. This is one of my favourites of him when he was younger. (later versions of him, he has short hair) This is one of my favs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVdkHyocpF0&list=UUttSYK-zCC0gCQfOapv9J1Q


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