# Showing in the wrong division.



## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

Has anyone had this problem at local schooling shows? I can't imagine it being a problem at a rated show.

In a couple show circuits I've shown in there have been a few people riding horses for people that couldn't be there or just showing in that division trying to get by with it. For example, a girl who was a freshman in college and on the riding team was riding in Long Sturrip. Make any kind of sense? Didn't think so. Also, another girl who had moved up to Pony Hunter and won Champion in that division and had been showing well over 4 years rode in a few shows for a kid that was away at school. He won Champion due to her help, not too fair to the Reserve Champion who would have been Champion. 

Schooling show or not, you're paying money to show. No matter the level, it should be done fairly.

This keeps happening and the people doing it try to justify or play stupid. Oh and we're the bad guys for bringing it to show management's attention.


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## equestrianbratt (Jul 10, 2012)

LoveMyGoGo said:


> Has anyone had this problem at local schooling shows? I can't imagine it being a problem at a rated show.
> 
> In a couple show circuits I've shown in there have been a few people riding horses for people that couldn't be there or just showing in that division trying to get by with it. For example, a girl who was a freshman in college and on the riding team was riding in Long Sturrip. Make any kind of sense? Didn't think so. Also, another girl who had moved up to Pony Hunter and won Champion in that division and had been showing well over 4 years rode in a few shows for a kid that was away at school. He won Champion due to her help, not too fair to the Reserve Champion who would have been Champion.
> 
> ...


see it happen all the time.


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## countercanter (May 18, 2011)

Just because someone shows on their college's riding team doesn't mean they are jumping perfect 3 foot courses. There are many different levels. That person could have very well been riding at the Long Stirrup level. I also don't get why you object to other people showing someone else's horse. This last weekend I had someone show my horse and my friend showed 5 different horses for different owners. As long as the rider and horse fit within the limits of the class qualifications there shouldn't be a problem.


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## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

She does jump 3 ft courses and is past her first four years of showing. I quess you sound sour because you didn't get their entire show history. The entire point was people showing in divisions they aren't suppose to be in..I didn't know you needed their entire show history. People showing other horses for people is fine, as long as they're allowed in that division. People don't pay a lot of money to show in the correct division just to have someone who is not suppose to be in their division showing against them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countercanter (May 18, 2011)

Oh I totally agree that people shouldn't be showing in divisions that they are over qualified for. I guess the way I read what you posted was a little different than you intended.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

I was at work and couldn't put every detail. Yeah the entire point was they aren't suppose to be in there, know they aren't, and still do it. I guess I should have been more clear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

One word: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 
LOL! Jk

Check the rule books, they actually may be able to show in those dipending on what horse their on exc. 

But I see it all the time at b shows and some a is professionals ride ( professional here is any person making money, USA I believe a professional is anyone making more than 10k a year) they ride clients horses and just clean up due to their many many years of experience and ability.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

There are some elements of riders needing to show at a lower level though, when they are bringing on new horses.


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## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

You do realize Long Stirrup is meant for RIDERS in their first 4 (maybe 5) years of showing, right? There are rules for each show, you go by those or get called out on it. They make divisions for young or just learning horses (ie Baby Green) and if you're going in a class to give your horse experience then you really shouldn't go in a class against new riders who are supposed to be in that division..go unjudged if you want to get in an earlier division early in the day. People in those lower divisions are still learning so when you have someone who shouldn't be in there and they beat the less experience, it's just low and sad.


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## MurrayLover12 (May 8, 2012)

I don't think it's quite fair, but some will do whatever they can to get a ribbon.


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## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

Exactly, to get a ribbon. If winning isn't a big deal to you then it shouldn't be a big deal to go in the correct division..if you're there to give your horse experience that's great. But to go in a division to beat little kids is a bit much...most classes are meant for the riders experience, not the horse..there are divisions for green or inexperienced horses. You have to know this particular situation or have been in something similar to really understand the hassle it causes at a show, for show management and those showing.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

The better question is, will complaining about it on an internet bulletin board help? 

You have two choices in this situation -

1.) Report it to show management, let them deal with it if it's actually a rule violation and accept their judgement. (Many organizations take the view that they can only police *their* shows, they can't police other show circuits.) 

2.) Accept that riders showing down a division and showing on a different circuit to be able to show down a division or three is part of showing and move on.

There really aren't a whole lot of other options.


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## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

No ma'am, the better question now is..have you forgotten where you wrote that response? This is a public forum where people talk anything horse related, there isn't a guideline that says you have to leave out getting people's opinions on things you feel aren't done right. Am I wrong about that? I don't think I am but then again, it's your opinion.

And the following situation(s) (yes, it's happened a few times with different people) has been taken up with show management, and they have taken care of it. It's the job of an exhibitor to follow the rules and not cause problems for show management. It's not the job of those that aren't show management to have to look out for these things.

The show circuits this has happened at both follow the NCHJA rule book, so they are the same rules, just different show circuits. Each show has a description under it and it clearly states what year of showing you have to be in to show in that division. 

People get by with that they think they can. 

I will state this one time..the point of this thread was to see if it's happened anywhere else, how it was handled, opinions on this happening and how you feel about it, not to be told I should just accept it and move on. It's not very honest to go to a show where people are paying money just to cheat, whatever the reason may be.


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## DoubleS (Jun 11, 2012)

I was once disqualified from 3 classes because I was in the 'wrong class'. The classes were "Jr. Western Pleasure" "Jr. Walk Trot" and "Jr. Horsemanship."
Want to know why they disqualified me? Because I was riding my 14hh pony and the classes were supposedly for only horses over 14.2hh. They didn't have any rules that I saw about how tall the horse had to be for those classes, but they DQ'd me anyway. I even asked the lady that was running it about which classes that I could enter, and she said either pony or the age divisions, so apparently she didn't know what she was talking about. I was mad :evil:. Didn't get my money back either. 
Haven't been to one of their shows again!
Sorry for the rant. lol!


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## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

DoubleS said:


> I was once disqualified from 3 classes because I was in the 'wrong class'. The classes were "Jr. Western Pleasure" "Jr. Walk Trot" and "Jr. Horsemanship."
> Want to know why they disqualified me? Because I was riding my 14hh pony and the classes were supposedly for only horses over 14.2hh. They didn't have any rules that I saw about how tall the horse had to be for those classes, but they DQ'd me anyway. I even asked the lady that was running it about which classes that I could enter, and she said either pony or the age divisions, so apparently she didn't know what she was talking about. I was mad :evil:. Didn't get my money back either.
> Haven't been to one of their shows again!
> Sorry for the rant. lol!


I don't know anything about showing western so I have no idea about your situation!!

It's weird that those classes had height requirements, according to them. I would think if it said Jr that it meant age of the rider and/or experience, am I wrong? Like I said, I have no idea about the western world lol


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

LoveMyGoGo said:


> She does jump 3 ft courses and is past her first four years of showing. I quess you sound sour because you didn't get their entire show history. The entire point was people showing in divisions they aren't suppose to be in..I didn't know you needed their entire show history. People showing other horses for people is fine, as long as they're allowed in that division. People don't pay a lot of money to show in the correct division just to have someone who is not suppose to be in their division showing against them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 If they aren't supposed to be in that division then you are with in your rights to protest it. Then they look into it and if you are correct they take the placing away.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

maura said:


> 1.) Report it to show management, let them deal with it if it's actually a rule violation and accept their judgement. (Many organizations take the view that they can only police *their* shows, they can't police other show circuits.)


If it effects you this is what I would do. If it doesn't effect you then it is up to a person in that division to protest it. If you choose not to protest it then you have to accept it.


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## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> If it effects you this is what I would do. If it doesn't effect you then it is up to a person in that division to protest it. If you choose not to protest it then you have to accept it.


I'm with you 100%. It blows my mind with those that play dumb or get defensive when people protest it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

No, GoGo, 

As a moderator of this forum, I'm pretty familiar with what it means to post on a public forum. So yes, you're entitled to post your opinion, complaint, rant, whine, etc., and nothing you posted is anywhere close to violating a forum guideline. Similiarly, any other member is entitled to respond to your post in kind and express their opinion, as long as they stay within the forum guidelines. Not everyone who posts in response will support or agree with your opinion, and that's okay. 



> I will state this one time..the point of this thread was to see if it's happened anywhere else, how it was handled, opinions on this happening and how you feel about it.


However, rather than just boldly state my opinion in response, let me try to answer you more specifically. 

Yes, it happens all the time, everywhere. Professionals showing as amateurs, phony ponies showing in the wrong height division, people showing "down" a division, ie, some who has won multiple equitiation classes elsewhere showing in a Maiden or Limit class, or in your case a Long Stirrup class. 

Yes, I think it's unethical and unsportmanlike. After showing for decades, I guess I'm a little more jaded than you are. I have seen so much worse than this in competition it doesn't arouse much of a passionate response in me. 

As far as how it was handled, sorry, the options are still exactly what I told you. If you want any action, you will have to file a protest with the show organization. If it's a USEF rated show, or run according to USEF rules, you have to put up money, usually $200., to file a protest. If your protest is sustanstiated, you get the money back. This is to prevent nuisance or "tattle" protesting. I do not know it you can do so anonymously, I know if you protest someone's amatuer status or the height of a pony, your name is attached to it, and that has the unfortunate effect of keeping people from protesting some pretty flagrant stuff. 

So I wish you luck, I hope the cheating competitor is reported and prevented from doing this again. If I had students in the same class at the correct level of experience for the division, I'd be pretty ticked off. 

Here's a link to the rulebook for your association -

Rules

A brief glance at them shows the process for filing greivance (It's under Section 3, Hearing Committee) and yes, you can file one if you believe a competitor is ineligible to compete. There's no mention of a fee to do so, so maybe that doesn't apply to all affiliate or local show organizations.


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## LoveMyGoGo (May 23, 2012)

Yup.

At a schooling show, which is the shows I go to, you just let show management know. At rated shows what you talked about is how it's done. I don't have to personally have to worry with such issues since I do not jump at shows, or I would go to more then just a schooling show. I show in a flat division open to anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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