# Questions about Clinton Anderson training methods.



## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

If you have the opportunity to go to one of his clinics, it's worth it! But, like all the others, it's a business so you get bombarded with "buy my products"! Giddyupflix.com has a lot of his DVDs, as well as other trainers. For a monthly fee you can get alot of good information. Books are nice, but sometimes watching helps more. 

1. Pull her head towards you so she's looking at you. 
2. If she doesn't do what you want, then ask harder! For example, wiggle the rope for her to back. If she is slow or sluggish, then get more aggressive until she moves with energy.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

My husband follows CA. I have never heard him call anything a game.


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## Five Furlongs (Feb 7, 2010)

Thanks Gigem! I will look into it.

Always behind- That phrasing was incorrect. I apologize.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about the phrasing. Parelli and CA are identical. Games/exercises are exactly the same they just call them different things. So it's merely a case of which personality you prefer. CA is more direct and openly aggressive. PP has a lot of talking/lectures on their dvd's rather than just the exercises. It's just personal preference.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am willing to say that CA and PP have some similarities but they are in no way identical.

Though I do not follow either Mr. AB loves watching his CA DVDs so I have seen several of them. He sometimes see PP things on TV. The word identical never even entered my mind when comparing the two.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Well I assure you that they are. I own every DVD of both Parelli and CA. Along with Stacy Westfall, La Cense etc etc.

The exercises are the same. The porcupine game for example is simply yielding to direct pressure. ALL the exercises even the ridden (beginning with single reining and moving into follow the rail and the clover leaf pattern) identical. The only difference is that CA doesn't seem to rely directly on a personality quadrant in order to select exercises to focus on.

Both of them simply repackage the same identical stuff with different names to try and make people think they invented it and it's unique in order to command the. Prices that they do.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

The goals are the same how they go about things are not always the same.

Heck, CA's halter is different than PP halter.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When your horse looks away from you, try looking in the opposite direction. This seems to bring them back to you. When asking for energy in backing, ramp up your energy. Stand at the end of your lead but with the belly of it touching the ground then use your energy to ask for one energetic step back then immediately relax. Walk her around then repeat. Don't try for lots of steps. Get a good first one and the others will eventually come.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Lol sorry moving away from the OPs original question but I believe this important. If people cannot recognise what is being done they cannot understand why or how it works and cannot therefore be the best for the horse.

The only difference in the halters is CAs is stiffer and has two more knots to apply more pressure faster. If you believe their approach is different then please give an example and I will translate into other names. I can even refer you to individual chapters in their respective DVDs to prove what I am saying (if it wasn't for copyright I would post clips) perhaps I can search YouTube for clips.

Ps not looking to offend anyone, but both CA and PP ought to be up there as a lesson in the power of effective marketing and building a brand. Heck CA even charges for photos and autographs now.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

You said Identical. Stiffer and two knots is not identical. Plain and simple.

I am willing to agree on similar. I am not willing to agree on identical because they are clearly not identical.

Are you not aware what the word identical means?


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## Jacksmama (Jan 27, 2010)

How are you cueing her to back? 

I have always been told that when a horse turns away from you in this manner it is a disrespect issue and they are not paying attention. Pull her head around to look at you when she does this.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

Lol perhaps I should have said 'practically identical' then 
In terms of their exercises however, yes I am aware of the meaning of the word identical, and I mean it. There are no 'practical' differences. As I said their personality, their ego's differ. CA is more directly aggressive, more focussed on what he sees as disrespect in his attitude. PP plays the slightly warmer and fuzzier card, but in terms of the actual mechanics they are identical. My challenge stands. You show me something from CA and I will show you the equivalent from PP (or La Cense, Chris Cox etc etc).
My intention is not to say 1 is better than the other, but to simply help people to understand what they are doing and what it achieves rather than simply blindly following an ego. That way they can really expand on their journey as horse people as is they duty we all have to our animals.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I do not get how you can say that you know what identical means and say you mean it and then go on to describe the differences..... sigh.


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## Doe (Jun 21, 2011)

AB you are being pedantic to avoid the main issue. You can have two cars of the same model. One red and one blue, one with bigger alloys than the other but practically they are the same car. Two knots and a slightly stiffer rope does not make a totally different halter. Let's face it, if there wasn't some difference then he'd have no reason to be able to sell you his halters versus anyone else's. Does it actually make any difference? Not in my experience, once again it's personal preference.

As I say return to the original issue. If you say they are not identical in the exercises then show me and I will stand corrected. I said they present it differently, they label it differently, but the ACTUAL exercises you do with the horse are IDENTICAL. I have studied both over several years and as I say own ALL of the DVDs for both. (I even still have the old VHS versions as well) Wheras, as I understand it you are making a suggestion based on an opinion of watching some of what your husband has been following. I'm not negating your opinion, but it is not based on the full understanding/experience of both 'systems'


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Five Furlongs said:


> 1. When I am doing the hula hoop game, if I ask my mare to come into me she will once I tighten up the lead rope. When she get there *she always turns her head to the side and it seems like she is trying to avoid me. This happens in other exercises too*. I don't know if this is important or not so I figured I'd find out
> 
> 2. We are currently up to the backing exercises. She will back up in all the exercises but NEVER with energy. She will let me run the stick into her a bunch of times and just keep barley going. What should I do when she doesn't give me energy in her backing??
> 
> Thanks so much for your help. It is greatly appreciated.


The purpose of all groundwork is to get the horse thinking ON you. To get his mind with you and available to you, and optiminally, available in a willing way.

Horse , just like people, can go throught the motions of the "games" or excersizes, without having much mental connection to the handler. They learn the steps to do, and then do them and they get a release. But they are often not mentally really present and there is no real willingness in their compliance. This is the problem with focussin on completeing a game, rather than focussing on the horse and whether or not they are giving you their attention, and how they feel about these games.


Your horse not looking at you to me means that she is still focussed outward, outside of the round pen or whereever you are. It is also possible that you are too close right in front of her, which some horses really don't like.

If you dont' have a round pen to do work at liberty, then when she is on the line and her attention wanders far away do something, (anything, such as scuffling the ground with your boot, tapping your boot with a crop, wiggling the line, etc.) that will interupt that outward facing thought. When she stops looking away, see if she will choose to look at you. If she looks away, interupt that thought. Once you interupt it, let her choose where to look, hoping it will be you. You are not forcing her to look at you, but if she chooosing something else, then you interupt it and give her another chance to choose.

When she looks at you, walk up and pet her nose, ONCE , and then walk awy and give her a break. Or if you are doing the yo yo thingy, get her to take ONE step toward you , then pet her and leave off. 

As for backing, she is backing without energy because she sees no reason to expend any more than that. You will have to raise your expectations. If she KNOWs that a wiggle of the line means back up, then you can have higher expectations. Ask, Tell, DEMAND! and get a good , free back up. Watch her feet to see if she picks them up and places them backward as opposed to dragging them backward. If she throws her head up and backs, who cares. It doesn't matter. What you want first is willing backing. Once she is more respectful of your back request, then you may returen to asking lightly and maybe she will back prettier.

But get her to free up her feet and MOVE. However, always ask nicely first, right/?


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## heartprints62 (Feb 27, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Your horse not looking at you to me means that she is still focussed outward, outside of the round pen or whereever you are. It is also possible that you are too close right in front of her, which some horses really don't like.
> 
> If you dont' have a round pen to do work at liberty, then when she is on the line and her attention wanders far away do something, (anything, such as scuffling the ground with your boot, tapping your boot with a crop, wiggling the line, etc.) that will interupt that outward facing thought. When she stops looking away, see if she will choose to look at you. If she looks away, interupt that thought. Once you interupt it, let her choose where to look, hoping it will be you. You are not forcing her to look at you, but if she chooosing something else, then you interupt it and give her another chance to choose.
> 
> When she looks at you, walk up and pet her nose, ONCE , and then walk awy and give her a break. Or if you are doing the yo yo thingy, get her to take ONE step toward you , then pet her and leave off.


AGREE AGREE AGREE!!!! ^^Exact method I used with my mare, she still needs that little "bump" to remember where her attention is suppose to be sometimes. 

As far as backing, same mare had this problem as well. I thought it was just part of her "I don't want to" attitude, but a month or so later on a vet visit for an absess in her heel, he said "have you noticed this mare has a curve in her spine?" Um..... no....... (insert feeling pathetic and incompetent here) It was just slight enough that he noticed it, but I see her everyday and her condition was so poor when I had gotten her a few months before (I had been so focused on protruding ribs, dragging back feet, and hooves starting to curl up) that I hadn't really paid any attention to her spine! 
I point this out because it was keeping her from backing and properly disengaging her hindquarters. Her not backing with effort (when she gave me effort for everything else) was her way of saying "something isn't right". 

Here is a picture of it (photoshoped to outline the spine) It looks much worse in the photo than it did in person, but honestly it was nearly a 1/2in deviation. I had noticed that it didn't look right, but like I said she had so many issues, seemed like a new one every time I turned around.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

I love Clinton Anderson's methods and I also love Chris Cox both are great and I take and use what both have to teach and offer Chris Is coming to Ky in July and Clinton is coming to Ohio in August I cant wait.


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## FledgeOfNarnia (Apr 18, 2008)

1. Does she look at you when she stands outside your hula hoop? What I would do kinda depends on what she already knows. Does she know YHQ stage 2, I think it is? If she pays attention to you when standing outside the hula hoop, but turns away when you draw her close, I would step around and make her YHQ to get her attention back. Make sure you don't draw her too close either. She may be uncertain if she's really close, ie headshy.

2. I had problems backing my horse too, and then I learned to really whack the rope and sometimes, my horse. If you let them get away with slow backing (after you've taught them the concept) they will do it as long as they can. If she knows what to do but doesn't do it with energy, then increase the intensity of the cue until she really backs with energy. Do not release until she backs with energy. I completely explode (surge forward, big arm movements when cuing) sometimes to get my horse to realize I mean it. That may not be necessary for your horse. "Do what it takes to get the job done." Or something like that.

Hope this helps.


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## Lauren Woodard (Jul 7, 2010)

Doe is absolutely right.


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## Lauren Woodard (Jul 7, 2010)

BTW anyone who can use the word pedantic like that gets my vote.


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## greenhorn7 (Sep 2, 2011)

I enjoy watching all the horse training shows on RFD TV. Right now, I'm getting my confidence back day by day using Clinton Anderson's dvds. So far, I have found the instructions to be clear and thorough. And...I'm having a great time with my horse. I talk about it at TVhorsetalk


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