# Best bit for a fussy mouth



## muppets (Nov 22, 2013)

When I say he fusses with the bit, he'll play with it fairly constantly as long as his attention isn't somewhere else. He'll chew, grab it between his teeth and sometimes stick his tongue over it, and this is before I even pick up the reins. He pulls against the bit while riding, and will lean into it. At the moment I use a french link eggbutt snaffle, as I believed it was the kindest option. I'm not after a stonger bit... I'm after something that he will accept and not fuss with so much. He's no better after the dentist, and I've checked inside his mouth to see where the bits sits, and it seems to sit nicely as far as I can tell.
His mouth is quite fleshy, and I'm thinking this maybe has something to do with it. Also I wonder if he doesn't like the added movement that the french link has. I know the only real option to to try some different bits and see what he's like with them, but they can be pretty expensive, so was hoping someone who has had a similar problem might have some suggestions.

**NOTE that I understand a bit won't fix training issues. I know there are issues, and am working on them, I just want my horse to be as comfortable as possible.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Have you asked the dentist to look to see if the bit fits?

You might find that it's too big (wide) for his mouth and he's having a hard time settling it in his mouth because it's uncomfortable.

He definitely shouldn't be able to get his teeth on it, that is a big red light for me. You don't want a bit banging on his teeth at all, perhaps this is also why he is grabbing hold of it and sticking his tongue over it?


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

^^^^^This

Some horses have thick tongues or low pallets and need special bits to accommodate them.

If the bit is against the teeth, it may need to be adjusted correctly. 

Also have the vet check closely for any sort of damage to the tongue or possibly a thorn stuck it in from hay or grazing in the field. 

Have the mouth thoroughly checked for polyps. The horse in my avatar is probably the only one on this forum that ever had that issue but, check anyway


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Try a loose ring, regular snaffle with a sweet iron mouth. I haven't had a horse dislike this bit. They seem to like the taste and it's of moderate thickness. Cheap to boot so worth giving it a try.


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## khorrapony (Aug 31, 2015)

My horse has some similar issues, the second you put the bit in her mouth she's chewing, foaming, trying to get her tongue over... I don't know if I would call it "Playing" as much as an angry chewing... I first had her in a regular loose ring single jointed snaffle, that was her least favorite. Second tried a loose ring double jointed. She seemed to like that marginally better, she would settle into the contact halfway into the ride. I nos have her in a Mullen mouth rubber bit. This has by far been her favorite. Initially she will chew, but once I get on her and we get to work she stops and relaxes. 

I think you're right to use an eggbut or d ring for your horse, the extra movement of a lose ring or double jointed probably isn't helping anything. I would suggest trying a Mullen mouth eggbut bit, that's about as stable as you can get 

Also, maybe try moving the bit higher/lower in his palate.


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## muppets (Nov 22, 2013)

DuffyDuck said:


> Have you asked the dentist to look to see if the bit fits?
> 
> You might find that it's too big (wide) for his mouth and he's having a hard time settling it in his mouth because it's uncomfortable.
> 
> He definitely shouldn't be able to get his teeth on it, that is a big red light for me. You don't want a bit banging on his teeth at all, perhaps this is also why he is grabbing hold of it and sticking his tongue over it?


No, I haven't but that's a good idea, he's due for the dentist, so I'll ask.

Pretty sure it's not too wide for his mouth, if anything it might be a touch too small.

He's grabbing it between his molars, and I already have the bit sitting lower than most people would think was right (if you go by the wrinkle idea, which I don't anyway).

Saddlebag, I actually have one of those somewhere! Will have to see if I can find it.

khorrapony, I was thinking a mullen, but the rubber ones seem like they might be too thick. Maybe one of the thinner metal ones might work.

I've got a random picture that shows the bit he's got now.


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## khorrapony (Aug 31, 2015)

I would say definitely move it up in his mouth.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Agreed. It looks low, and from what I can see quite wide.

Definitely a dentist thing, and any worth their salt should be able to tell you about bit fitting- not the bit to use, but whether yours fits.


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## muppets (Nov 22, 2013)

Okay, dentist is definitely on the to do list! Honestly, I think most of it is a behavioural thing, he's not got great steering, I can't even laterally flex him (something I've just started working on) but just want him as happy and comfortable as possible.  I'm also happy to go bitless, but would like to get him accepting the bit anyway.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Can you do carrot stretches with him... in a headcollar, nose to either side and between the legs? If not I'd suggest he may need a chiro too. It could be discomfort and unhappiness and that's the way he's showing you?


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## khorrapony (Aug 31, 2015)

Do some bending exercises on the ground! They really help as to the horse understanding your aids  look some up, I can't promise I can accurately describe any.. . 

Part of it could be behavioral, but you want him to be as comfortable as possible to help him overcome this. Don't be discouraged, keep working at it!  you also might try a bit acceptance cream, something like "bit butter" which you slather on before bridling. Lunge him in a Pessoa or something similar, let him work out his acceptance issues.

Are you currently working with a trainer?


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## khorrapony (Aug 31, 2015)

Also, I second having a chiro out!! My horse was having issues bending and staying on the wall and after a quick adjustment she was a different horse.

Again, don't be discouraged. I know money doesn't grow on trees but I promise it is worth the peace of mind to know your horse is comfortable and healthy.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Bit butter... honey works wonders! Bit messy, but it's sweet and gets them going. Or a sugar cube to chomp before you put it in.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

In the picture I thought that the bit looked a little too loose and you could try it a little higher in his mouth to see how that goes, might help stop him getting the tongue over the bit.
Also have you tried just putting the bridle on him and leaving him in the stall for a while (no reins on to get caught up on) and letting him get acustomed to the bit by himself? You don't say how long you have been riding him but if he is new to riding, maybe he just needs bitting up which we did by putting the bit on for short periods in the stall so the horse could get accustomed to the feel of the bit before doing any work with them.

I have used a Myler snaffle comfort bit on horses that seem to fuss about the bit and had good success with that. Every horse I have used it on likes it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If he messes with the bit all the time I'm not sure I'd put anything on the bit to encourage more messing, the French link type bits are mild but horses that tend to want to play with the bit seem worse with them than they are in a thick single jointed snaffle or a mullen mouth - you could try the Happy Mouth shaped mullen mouth bit but if the horse chews on it it won't work, sometimes horses that want to get their tongue over the bit are better in a low ported Kimberwick (not an Uxeter slotted kimberwicke)
When I get a horse like yours that's really persistent I remove the bit from the scenario altogether and ride in a sidepull or an English hackamore for a while to break the habit


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

http://www.amazon.com/Sweet-Loose-S...pebp=1441042146879&perid=12T1XQDE9KXYPMDCN7D2

This is what I have my fussy gelding in and he LOVES it. He's a chewer and likes to try to evade, but with this bit, he's quiet and responsive. I think he likes the combination of sweet iron and coppper, as well as the little copper rings on the center piece.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Also, pull the reins and bridle up with just a the bit and a headstall when it's evening feeding time. He'll forget about the bit and just eat. If he is STILL fussing while eating his grain, then you will REALLY know that you need a new bit. =D


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

muppets said:


> When I say he fusses with the bit, he'll play with it fairly constantly as long as his attention isn't somewhere else. He'll chew, grab it between his teeth and sometimes stick his tongue over it, and this is before I even pick up the reins. He pulls against the bit while riding, and will lean into it. At the moment I use a french link eggbutt snaffle, as I believed it was the kindest option. I'm not after a stonger bit... I'm after something that he will accept and not fuss with so much. He's no better after the dentist, and I've checked inside his mouth to see where the bits sits, and it seems to sit nicely as far as I can tell.
> His mouth is quite fleshy, and I'm thinking this maybe has something to do with it.


A snaffle bit tends to get pulled upwards in the mouth towards the molars and this can crush the insides of the cheeks against the molars most painfully. If your horse has fleshy cheeks, this becomes more likely. Also, jointed snaffles tend to be far worse at creating this effect than unjointed ones. If you want to keep riding in a snaffle, I'd suggest an unjointed soft-plastic Happy Mouth bit.

The best bits for avoiding the crushing of cheeks are mild curb bits like the port-mouthed Spanish "snaffle". The chin chain limits the upward movement of the bit so that it can't crush the cheeks. Not many people understand that chin chains (or chin straps made from leather, too, for example) have this effect! Also the mild curbs will spread the force applied to the reins over more area (due to the chain), and over time so that cues become gradual and the horse can respond to the faintest whisper of the beginning of the curb cue. This is why many horses go so well and happily in mild curbs.

Another good option is to try bitless, of course. 




> **NOTE that I understand a bit won't fix training issues. I know there are issues, and am working on them, I just want my horse to be as comfortable as possible.


Ah, I see you've been to a horse forum before! :rofl:

It's totally fair enough to want a horse to be comfortable around its mouth so it can work happily with you. Different bits suit different horses and horse/rider combinations. Also, don't bother believing anyone who tells you that you must must must work a horse in a snaffle for X amount of time before you should try anything else. That's just mythology (and like all mythology, it sticks around), and we've worked with enough horses ourselves experimentally to know it's not true. If your horse isn't happy, try something else until you find something you both like, then work from there. 

You can still both work on technique in a more comfortable bit.

Experimenting will cost you less if you know some nice horsey people who can lend you a few different things of suitable size. If you weren't so far away I'd lend you some options myself! ;-)

Best wishes! 

PS: Best book on bits and riding I've ever read: _Horse Control and the Bit_, by Tom Roberts.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

...wow Muppets, you're also in Western Australia. Might be able to lend you a few things after all, but I'm on the South Coast!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Sue, could you please post an example of the Spanish snaffle?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Sure, TL. Riding in one here (clicking a few times will enlarge photo):










Very similar to mine:










...but mine has a nicer chin-chain which lies really flat and that's really important, as is ensuring the lips won't be trapped between bit and chain when you're engaging the lever, so always try the full range of motion from the ground first, paying attention to those areas.

The rope threading through the reins is explained here:

http://www.horseforum.com/member-jo...nkeys-other-people-479466/page16/#post7533946

Hope this helps.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Ah, in the States we call that a low port Kimberwick.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Very nice mild snaffle: The unjointed Happy Mouth. They come in other styles too.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It's called an Uxeter Kimberwick (or Kimblewick) in the UK


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I ride in a myler bit. I like it because it's flexible without too much movement and follows the curve of your horses mouth.

I've found it works well with a range of horses.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

The happy mouth you posted was uncomfortable for my mare as it was too thick. She rides best in a metal Mullen mouth. 

For fussy mouth horses any bit that doesn't have an extra joint is good.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

SueC said:


> ...but (my "Spanish Snaffle") has a nicer chin-chain which lies really flat...


I would like to see a photo of your bit! I am only familiar with this:
http://www.horsetackinternational.com/images/211896-kimberwick-bit.jpg
and I fund this online:
http://images.equestriancollections.com/is/image/EquestrianCollections/PF29190R?$oldimage$
https://www.google.com/search?q=Gin...wIViNYeCh1F0wda&dpr=1#spd=1400990484999305510
I had the opportunity to spend time with a girl from Denmark, "Lotte", who was studying at the University of Illinois. When I ran my small riding academy (loosely phrased, if you saw the facilities in which I taught!, but I took it seriously), she called about renting a horse once a week. She ended up helping me train and SHE was MY trainer. She had spent some time with Robert Hall, and told me that she had once considered going into horse training. She showed me many things, including twisting the curb chain clockwise, to link it smooth. Such a simple thing, but it is not always taught. Since the lesson horses I rode as a teenager went in snaffles (for Hunters), we didn't usually mess with any curb chains, and my experiences with them had been solely with Western (cowboy-type) curb bits. When we started to acquire (American) Civil War tack which had to be original or reproduction in order to be registered at a national event, ALL of the long shanked curb bits had chains, something NEW to me.
So...I am curious. How does your curb chain differ? For those you don't know, you CAN buy a curb sans the chain, and you put it on by hammering the hook closed on the off side, and leaving the hook on the near side open. There is NO wrong side of the chain because the ring (for a lip chain) falls downward with gravity.
Please post a photo OFF of the horse! I really couldn't see it well in his mouth! :icon_rolleyes:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Corporal, I recommend for you "Horse Control - The Bit" by Tom Roberts, who will give you a completely illustrated and photographed lowdown on different curb chains and their respective qualities, and how to fit them. This is much better than me posting photos of my gear I've not taken yet, and then just re-inventing the wheel that already exists! 

Including a photo of a horse ridden in one may be of interest to some people for other reasons. After all, it's not always easy to get photos of horses ridden in relatively obscure bits. 

I also don't know why you want to see inside his mouth - nothing to do with the curb chain! ;-) Inside the mouth is like any bit with a low port, including a port-mouthed pelham. That's when it's important to look at the bit _in your own horse's mouth_ during fitting, not at another horse!

Curb chains and their fitting takes up considerable room in the book I'm recommending, and not a line is wasted either.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

4horses said:


> The happy mouth you posted was uncomfortable for my mare as it was too thick. She rides best in a metal Mullen mouth.
> *
> For fussy mouth horses any bit that doesn't have an extra joint is good.*


*
*

really? I'm not arguing, just curious if others have this same feeling. I tend to ride exclusively in a double jointed snaffle, so don't have much experience with other types of bits.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Well, TL, I think that's a fair point and I don't agree with the stuff you quoted either - different horses have different mouth configurations, and while jointed doesn't suit a proportion of horses, I wouldn't generalise and say it never suits a horse with a "fussy" mouth (and I wouldn't use that term, an uncomfortable piece of tack that doesn't suit a particular mouth conformation or riding style is just that, no need to create a label to pin on the horse). It depends on why they are uncomfortable. Some horse who don't like a plain jointed snaffle like double jointed snaffles, some prefer unjointed.

4H, if that was about the Happy Mouth I posted, that one is _thinner than conventional snaffle bits_, and you can get thinner ones still (keeping in mind that the thinner they get, the more pressure they apply to their contact areas per unit force applied to the reins). And yes, some horses prefer metal to plastic, others like the mouth feel of the plastic better, some prefer bitless, so it's worth experimenting to see what goes best for you and your horse.

Corporal, I might have misunderstood you about looking in the mouth (late at night last night), but the details you are looking for are already in the reference book I recommended.

A general thought about why the term "Spanish snaffle" was customary for Australian (and old British) use of the bit I posted earlier: This bit is right at the cusp between a snaffle and a curb. Take off the curb chain and it rides as a snaffle. Put your reins in the Ds directly rather in the bottom slot of the D and there will basically be negligible curb effect, other than to reduce the tendency of the bit to come back towards the horse's cheeks (the curb chain will stabilise the position of the bit in the horse's mouth - more effectively if gently engaged, but still to an extent if not). Put the reins in the bottom slot and you will have a very gentle curb effect. Personally I ride with the reins in the bottom slot but I don't have any issues turning the horse in this bit, there is enough direct effect in this kind of bit. Maybe that's why Spanish "Snaffle" stuck in some circles - combined with the fact that in many Spanish riding styles curb bits are used as frequently and normally as people from continental styles tend to use snaffles as the basic standard bit - and I suppose some Native Americans used bitless. It's such a cultural thing and it's good to be aware of one the differences in "normal". ;-)

A port-mouthed pelham, ridden with double reins, will have a snaffle effect from the top ring and a curb effect from the curb rein - can separate the two actions totally and can be a reasonable double bridle substitute for horses who aren't comfortable accommodating two bits in their mouth at the same time.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think the plains Indians of N. America rode with a leather thong through the mouth around the lower jaw.


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## petitepyromaniac (Oct 12, 2010)

muppets said:


> When I say he fusses with the bit, he'll play with it fairly constantly as long as his attention isn't somewhere else. He'll chew, grab it between his teeth and sometimes stick his tongue over it, and this is before I even pick up the reins. He pulls against the bit while riding, and will lean into it. At the moment I use a french link eggbutt snaffle, as I believed it was the kindest option. I'm not after a stonger bit... I'm after something that he will accept and not fuss with so much. He's no better after the dentist, and I've checked inside his mouth to see where the bits sits, and it seems to sit nicely as far as I can tell.
> His mouth is quite fleshy, and I'm thinking this maybe has something to do with it. Also I wonder if he doesn't like the added movement that the french link has. I know the only real option to to try some different bits and see what he's like with them, but they can be pretty expensive, so was hoping someone who has had a similar problem might have some suggestions.
> 
> **NOTE that I understand a bit won't fix training issues. I know there are issues, and am working on them, I just want my horse to be as comfortable as possible.


OP- I had a horse that sounds just like yours! He'd also constantly play with the bit, pull it up into his molars to chomp on it, fiddle with his tongue, etc.

The bit I previously had him in was this one, but wasn't copper (curved mouthpiece, not overly wide in diameter, double joint, etc)










This looks like the bit I use on him now (also curved and not wide in diameter, but a single joint, and bigger*)









He's much quieter with it. *I also got it a 1/4 size bigger than his previous bit. It didn't LOOK like he needed the extra space, but when I went bigger, his lips filled in the extra width, and he's happier.

I too don't follow the wrinkle rule, and I have the bit lower than some think is "correct". After some research I thought I'd try it, and my horse confirms he likes it. Haters gonna hate, but my horse's opinion wins


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