# STUD problems!!



## pheonix

I have a stud who rides perfect around mares and geldings no issues he never yells or anything , but when he see's another horse running around him he goes crazy rearing and bucking trying to catch up with them... He's not old (4) but I don't understand why he's doing it


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## franknbeans

Perhaps he would make a great gelding. Is there a reason he is still a stud?


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## texasgal

Any gender of horse is capable of acting like a fool when other horses are "running around him" ... Definitely a training issue, and stallions can be trained to behave just like mares and geldings ... with the right trainer.

I am concerned that if you don't understand the issue or why he is reacting this way then the fact that he IS a stallion could make him dangerous to you and to others.

My advice would be to geld him and get a trainer. If he's just too amazing to geld - sell him to someone who knows how to handle him.


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## texasgal

Is your stallion 2 or 4? Or do you have two?


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## waresbear

Is this while you are riding him? If it is, you have an extremely dangerous situation on your hands, give a stallion an inch, and he will soon own the farm. Please get some help before you are seriously hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny

Herd mentality.

My concern here is for your safety, the safety of your horse, and others you may ride with. He is a young horse and I'm guessing still pretty green. Stallions aren't good horses for inexperienced people. Without an understanding of basic horse behavior you are leaving yourself open to a lot of problems and may end up with a horse that will need a lot of retraining down the road. 
My humble advice would be to geld him and get some help from those with experience.


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## palogal

If he rides fine, is he doing this when he's loose? If he is, just make sure you have a good fence to keep him safe. If he's doing this while you're riding him, that's unacceptable. More details please?


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## gssw5

Regardless if he is a stallion, a mare or a gelding he is exhibiting dangerous, disrespectful behavior. Horses have a herd mentality and want to be other horses that is why he is doing it. First you have to gain his respect on the ground, then you need to ride defensively and keep his feet moving in the direction you tell him to go. You have to have solid ground work to have his respect in the saddle. When he starts acting silly you need to get a hold of his nose the rest of his body will follow his nose. Make him work in a circle, yield his hind quarters, get his mind back on you. When you ride in a group make him work hard while your with the other horses and then separate yourself and let him rest a bit. He needs to know that being with other horses equals work, and being alone he gets air. If you don't understand what to do and how to do it then your going to get into a wreck not just with this horse but with any horse. I highly suggest finding a trainer to help you if you cannot handle him yourself. Gelding is always helpful too, but a disrespectful stallion will be a disrespectful gelding without training. Be safe


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## MsBHavin

It sounds like it's time to get a pro trainer out there before your stud gets away from you and injures himself or someone elses horse.


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## Zexious

I feel like we need some clarification on the situation... You say "running around him", but I'm confused about the context. I'm assuming this is all on the ground. Are you saying that a horse in the same pasture/paddock is running around in close proximity? That creates a very dangerous situation for you, in particular.
Or, are you saying that a horse in another paddock is misbehaving? 

I would suggest a stud chain, but only if you're familiar with how to use them properly. Also, I would employ the help of a trainer. Are you boarding him somewhere, or is he kept on your property? Is there a professional you can ask for help?


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## palogal

I agree. We need to know what's actually going on.


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## pheonix

franknbeans said:


> Perhaps he would make a great gelding. Is there a reason he is still a stud?


Honestly just trying to find the right vet to do it he only has one testicle atm and he dropped VERY late the vet around here asked us to wait for a while and we did but only one testicle ever dropped. So I am saving and trying to find a vet I trust to cut him because obviously this one isn't going to be of much assistance. I was just wondering if his behavior had anything to do with the stud fact or for other reasons


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## pheonix

texasgal said:


> Any gender of horse is capable of acting like a fool when other horses are "running around him" ... Definitely a training issue, and stallions can be trained to behave just like mares and geldings ... with the right trainer.
> 
> I am concerned that if you don't understand the issue or why he is reacting this way then the fact that he IS a stallion could make him dangerous to you and to others.
> 
> My advice would be to geld him and get a trainer. If he's just too amazing to geld - sell him to someone who knows how to handle him.


I do have a handler/ trainer the problem is He rides perfect until he sees another horse running ( doing barrels, pasture, etc) I just wondered if he was doing it because he is a stud or because of some instinct to herd


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## pheonix

texasgal said:


> Is your stallion 2 or 4? Or do you have two?


I have a 4 year old stallion, 2 year old stallion, a four month old colt, a 3 year old gelding,and a 3 year old mare.


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## pheonix

Dustbunny said:


> Herd mentality.
> 
> My concern here is for your safety, the safety of your horse, and others you may ride with. He is a young horse and I'm guessing still pretty green. Stallions aren't good horses for inexperienced people. Without an understanding of basic horse behavior you are leaving yourself open to a lot of problems and may end up with a horse that will need a lot of retraining down the road.
> My humble advice would be to geld him and get some help from those with experience.



He's not green, he just hasn't been exposed to much. he's been rode 4-6 times a week since he was 3 , but I usually do It after everyone has left the barn so I have no interuptions


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## pheonix

Zexious said:


> I feel like we need some clarification on the situation... You say "running around him", but I'm confused about the context. I'm assuming this is all on the ground. Are you saying that a horse in the same pasture/paddock is running around in close proximity? That creates a very dangerous situation for you, in particular.
> Or, are you saying that a horse in another paddock is misbehaving?
> 
> I would suggest a stud chain, but only if you're familiar with how to use them properly. Also, I would employ the help of a trainer. Are you boarding him somewhere, or is he kept on your property? Is there a professional you can ask for help?


I am sorry I should have been a bit more clear, He will ride completely perfect with mares, other studs, and geldings ( he's never even yelled). unless we're riding and they start running barrels or something of the sorts. He has been to the trainers and they couldn't help (the trainer never explained why) well the only reason I have gotten concerned about it because usually I can get him back under control, but this past time My trainer was riding him and another horse came by and they we're fine then the horse started running, my stud then proceeded to buck and my trainer hits funny and now has whip lash. I was just wondering if gelding him would fix our problem


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## waresbear

No, gelding him won't fix the problem, but getting a different training approach will. Any problems in his behaviour will still be there after gelding him but he might be a little easier to handle without the extra testosterone fueling his brain. Also it's much a better situation if he bucks one of you off and gets away, a loose gelding poses less risk than a loose stallion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsBHavin

pheonix said:


> I have the money to get him gelded by a vet around here, but I'd rather take him to a specialist due to only having one testicle and the vet around here isn't someone I'd trust gelding him. I didn't ask you to be rude or even comment on the fact that I don't have the money to take him to a more qualified vet in a different state. I asked If gelding him would fix the problem.


Gelding him will be a great cure. It will prevent him from getting away from you and breeding or killing someone elses horse.


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## pheonix

waresbear said:


> No, gelding him won't fix the problem, but getting a different training approach will. Any problems in his behaviour will still be there after gelding him but he might be a little easier to handle without the extra testosterone fueling his brain. Also it's much a better situation if he bucks one of you off and gets away, a loose gelding poses less risk than a loose stallion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have been lucky so far, I have never came off him, but my trainer did once and luckily he just stood beside the trainer waiting for him to get up ( by that time the man running the horse past him was gone) Thankfully


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## xlionesss

pheonix said:


> I have the money to get him gelded by a vet around here, but I'd rather take him to a specialist due to only having one testicle and the vet around here isn't someone I'd trust gelding him. I didn't ask you to be rude or even comment on the fact that I don't have the money to take him to a more qualified vet in a different state. I asked If gelding him would fix the problem.


I'm being realistic, not rude. It's irresponsible to own that many horses when you can't afford to take him out of state to geld him. What happens if the others need a "specialist" to geld them, too? Then you're left with 3 studs.


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## Kotori

xlionesss said:


> I'm being realistic, not rude. *It's irresponsible to own that many horses when you can't afford to take him out of state to geld him. What happens if the others need a "specialist" to geld them, too?* Then you're left with 3 studs.


I disagree here. That's like saying if you can't afford colic surgery for all of your horses simultaniously that you shouldn't have them(10k+). My trainer has a stallion that she will be gelding soon, and no local vets will touch him. She was quoted what I thought was an absurdly large sum (5k+). 
Of course she had to start saving- she only had 3k stored. Does that make her irresponsible?


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## SlideStop

My concern is other people's safety. It's no surprise that if you come off your stallion will breed or kill other horses. If he were any old horse I'd say take him to some barrel shows and let him hang out. Only problem is God forbid he gets loose. Maybe you can do it at home instead. Have someone walk, trot, canter and gallop around you and you make sure his attention is on you. If he doesnt listen back him, growl at him, move him around, whatever it takes to make him focus on you and you only.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texasgal

OP .. since we are talking about a training issue, I believe he needs to be desensitized to other horses running, jumping, doing whatever around him. The only way to do that is to put him in that situation.

I would begin by either being there when that is going on, or hauling him to barrel races, etc. and tie him up where he can see and hear that going on ALL.DAY.LONG.

Alot of folks will haul their yearlings and two-year olds to barrel races or rodeos for that reason. They just get used to all the commotion.

Until he's completely bored with all that, don't ride him. Start back with basics, ground work, especially if there is activity going on and progress from there.

Surgery to remove a testicle from the abdomen isn't cheap, so I feel your pain there. Gelding him won't change the behavior, but as others have pointed out, it will be safer for you and for others, especially with the training issues going on.

He's only 4. He's going to get continually more and more frustrated and you're having a hard time handling him now. I would make gelding him priority one.

Good luck!


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## DimSum

texasgal said:


> He's only 4. He's going to get continually more and more frustrated and you're having a hard time handling him now. I would make gelding him priority one.


100% agree. Get him gelded and after the hormones settle see where he is at and then make a plan to retrain.


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## Dustbunny

Yikes...no simple castration there. Do you have a vet school in your area? A lot of horse owners use the one here in western Oregon for out-of-the-ordinary issues.
Texasgal has a good point. Getting him used to a lot of activity should help.
What are your plans for him as far as discipline or activity?


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## Zexious

Gelding your horse won't solve your problem. As someone else in the thread said earlier, a misbehaved stallion will make a misbehaved gelding. That's not to say you shouldn't geld him--is there a reason (besides money) that you're keeping him a stallion? Does he have any sort of record?

As far as his issue, it's a very dangerous one. I'm assuming that you show him (he is a stallion, so he must do something [I hope]), and show grounds are very hectic. There are lots of horses moving around, etcetera. 
Try sending him to a different trainer? I seriously hope you didn't pay someone to tell you "We couldn't solve your problem" without giving telling you why, and giving you recommendations to who could.


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## beau159

pheonix said:


> He's not green, he* just hasn't been exposed to much.* he's been rode 4-6 times a week since he was 3 , but I usually do It after everyone has left the barn *so I have no interuptions *


You've given the perfect example of a GREEN horse. Sure, you ride him most days, but he's still green. 

No interruptions? I actually encourage and want commotion around me when working with a green horse because it gives me the opportunity to teach them how to handle a stressful situation and stay calm and stay listening to me. To each his own on that one. 

Do you have any intentions of breeding him? Is he even worthy of breeding? Then there's no reason he shouldn't be gelded immediately when the vet says it is safe to do so in his situation. I guarantee gelding him will help immensely. No, it won't remove the behavior (because you've allowed him to learn it) but it should make re-training much easier than if you didn't geld him. 

In general, this horse needs to be taught more respect. It shouldn't matter if the world is blowing up around you; he should still stay focused on only one thing --> YOU. I would definately be doing regular ground work exercises with this horse to get his attention and respect on you.


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## palogal

pheonix said:


> I am sorry I should have been a bit more clear, He will ride completely perfect with mares, other studs, and geldings ( he's never even yelled). unless we're riding and they start running barrels or something of the sorts. He has been to the trainers and they couldn't help (the trainer never explained why) well the only reason I have gotten concerned about it because usually I can get him back under control, but this past time My trainer was riding him and another horse came by and they we're fine then the horse started running, my stud then proceeded to buck and my trainer hits funny and now has whip lash. I was just wondering if gelding him would fix our problem


Gelding will settle him somewhat and make him slightly less reactive. You will most likely still have a training problem, but cutting him should help. Until he's cut, stay off of him and do ground work unless someone is lunging or leading you and see if that helps.
He's very green and has not been started correctly it sounds like.


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## palogal

Dustbunny said:


> Yikes...no simple castration there. Do you have a vet school in your area? A lot of horse owners use the one here in western Oregon for out-of-the-ordinary issues.
> Texasgal has a good point. Getting him used to a lot of activity should help.
> What are your plans for him as far as discipline or activity?


I second that. Look into a local vet school. It would be a great learning experience for the students and they are completely supervised by there professors.


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## xlionesss

Well, there is also a *big* difference between gelding a horse and colic surgery.


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## texasgal

xlionesss said:


> Well, there is also a *big* difference between gelding a horse and colic surgery.


I think the point is that if he has a retained testicle, then it's an abdominal surgery .. a big deal.


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## palogal

xlionesss said:


> I'm being realistic, not rude. It's irresponsible to own that many horses when you can't afford to take him out of state to geld him. What happens if the others need a "specialist" to geld them, too? Then you're left with 3 studs.


Do YOU have 10's of thousands of dollars sitting around for specialized surgery?
It's easy to be an authority on an operation someone else is funding.


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## palogal

xlionesss said:


> Well, there is also a *big* difference between gelding a horse and colic surgery.


Not when it's a complicated situation like this one.


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## xlionesss

Okay, fine. 
My concern is that OP will have 3 studs. For what reason? None.


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## texasgal

xlionesss said:


> Okay, fine.
> My concern is that OP will have 3 studs. For what reason? None.


Did you read the thread? She plans to geld.

And if she owned 10 studs, for no other reason than she likes studs, it's her business.

But that is not the case, because she plans to geld.


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## pheonix

Dustbunny said:


> Yikes...no simple castration there. Do you have a vet school in your area? A lot of horse owners use the one here in western Oregon for out-of-the-ordinary issues.
> Texasgal has a good point. Getting him used to a lot of activity should help.
> What are your plans for him as far as discipline or activity?


The discipline is the sad part I bought him when he was 2 and was planning on turning him into a barrel horse. At this point I want to sell him, but I refuse to sell him until He is better I don't want to take a chance of someone else who thinks they can handle him buying him and them ending up getting hurt. I had high hopes the trainer would help his problem , but from the sound of everything I have found out it's just going to take time and exposure. to be honest he has been a problem child since day 1 When I got him he had been thrown in a pasture with no handling he had severe sunburn in his nose so you couldn't get near his head without him freaking out and he was under weight. We have over come a lot of problems with him since then ( I knew he would be a project when I bought him, my trainer let me know he could help fix him) so we have over come a kicking problem, trust problem, and a few other problems including trying to paw the farrier to the ground. I have gotten all that fixed and now the only problem we have is the wanting to run with other horses.


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## AlexS

palogal said:


> Do YOU have 10's of thousands of dollars sitting around for specialized surgery?
> It's easy to be an authority on an operation someone else is funding.


I know the question wasn't directed to me, however.... 
I do not have tens of thousands laying around for complicated surgeries, at that point I would choose to euth my horse. 

However, if someone owns several studs, they should have the money to geld. And as they own a few of them, the chances of having at least one horse with a retained testicle is increased. It's not that rare of an issue.


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## pheonix

AlexS said:


> I know the question wasn't directed to me, however....
> I do not have tens of thousands laying around for complicated surgeries, at that point I would choose to euth my horse.
> 
> However, if someone owns several studs, they should have the money to geld. And as they own a few of them, the chances of having at least one horse with a retained testicle is increased. It's not that rare of an issue.


 i can afford to have the other two cut. Its only 200.00 per. I have only had the 2 year old a week or two that is the only reason he is still intact. I did not chose to end up with him he was a repo because the people weren't taking care of him (all except for 2 of my horses have been rescue cases) The colt, has to drop before he can be gelded. The vet Around here I would not trust to cut a horse with the issue of only having one testicle.


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## pheonix

I did not create this thread to be offended or to have to prove myself to anyone I created it to get an answer for a question I had. Thank you to those of you who answered my question. I greatly appreciate your help.


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## palogal

pheonix said:


> i can afford to have the other two cut. Its only 200.00 per. I have only had the 2 year old a week or two that is the only reason he is still intact. I did not chose to end up with him he was a repo because the people weren't taking care of him (all except for 2 of my horses have been rescue cases) The colt, has to drop before he can be gelded. The vet Around here I would not trust to cut a horse with the issue of only having one testicle.


 
It's really none of anyone's business what you do with your horses or how many studs you have. Don't feel the need to justify yourself.
Your question was about this particular horse. There are just some people that have to jump on the 'geld' bandwagon every time they see a thread that says "stud".


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## palogal

AlexS said:


> I know the question wasn't directed to me, however....
> I do not have tens of thousands laying around for complicated surgeries, at that point I would choose to euth my horse.
> 
> However, if someone owns several studs, they should have the money to geld. And as they own a few of them, the chances of having at least one horse with a retained testicle is increased. It's not that rare of an issue.


It's really none of anyone business what she does with her horses or if she gelds them or not. She asked about one particular stallion. Gelding was suggested and she explained why he is not cut. Implying she can't take care of her animals is out of line.


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## pheonix

palogal said:


> It's really none of anyone's business what you do with your horses or how many studs you have. Don't feel the need to justify yourself.
> Your question was about this particular horse. There are just some people that have to jump on the 'geld' bandwagon every time they see a thread that says "stud".


Thank you for being so kind. I just wish they'd understand how hard I am trying to help him. It seems all they want to do is make me out to be a bad person.


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## Dustbunny

So many times it is difficult to see a situation from an initial post. We had no clue how much experience the owner had for starters. I'm sorry to say it did sound like the OP was a novice. Novices and stallions...not a good mix.
As it turns out, she does have experience, has a young horse that came with numerous issues and still needs a lot of work, has a trainer, and the horse does have a medical condition. All of this equals not an easy job.
I hope all turns out well for the OP and the horse. Stay safe!


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## palogal

pheonix said:


> Thank you for being so kind. I just wish they'd understand how hard I am trying to help him. It seems all they want to do is make me out to be a bad person.


 
You're fine. Stay off of him until you can get him cut, just to take that variable out of the equation. Gelding does make a huge change in how he sees the world, and it may take enough of the edge off of him that you won't have such a challenge on your hands.


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## rookie

I agree with the others get him gelded, give him time to settle and then start working on this issue. It does sound like an exposure issue; however, an exposure issue plus hormones is going to create a wreak. That said Cryptorchidism (retained testicle) is a larger and more expensive surgery. Its like half castration half scavenger hunt! That said, I would not personally buy a horse that was a crypt because thats going to cost more to fix than he might be worth. I would try to have him gelded before selling him and factor that into his price point. In many species retained testes are genetically linked and increase the risk of testicular cancer. The retained testicle is infertile (due to body temp); however, they only need one sperm to find the egg. Which means that even if he did get loose and bred a mare the owner would probably be pretty ticked. It would basically be giving them a foal that could cost just as much to geld as this guy would.


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## Cacowgirl

I had a colt w/a retained testicle-it did cost a little more, but I was lucky to be in So. Cal. & just across the river from Norco. My husband & I ponied him there & the next day after his surgery, brought him home in a trailer. Unfortunately, he was still kind of crazy, & could not be trusted-so we made a hard decision & sent him over the Rainbow Bridge. Sometimes, as a breeder, or owner, you have to make things right. I hope the OP has better results. I've owned 3 breeding stallions throughout my life, but those days are over for me, now it's just pleasure riding.


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## alexischristina

I, personally, owned a mini stud for all of a week and a half and man was he WILD. Neglected and more or less unhandled, after gelding the issues he had were decreased enough that good handling 'got through' to him. It sounds like the horse on your hands is _fairly_ sensible, and I don't doubt that through gelding you'll see SOME change in his behaviour. Obviously there will still be issues, it isn't a 'quick fix' but it might make (as others have already said) it easier to tackle the issue at hand.


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## my2geldings

franknbeans said:


> Perhaps he would make a great gelding. Is there a reason he is still a stud?


You stole the words out of my mouth. It sounds to me like he has a herding issue. I bet you he has never been asked to work respectfully in an arena full of horses.


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## Skyseternalangel

I'm on board with those that say it won't be fixed by simply gelding.

OP this horse has no idea what is going on when he sees other horses run because it's not something he usually sees in his riding career.

When horses are out in a field together, some have roles of protecting the rest of herd. When one runs, no questions are asked.. they usually all run as they are following that horse's leadership. Also horses run and buck around to play with one another.

Now take this into the arena and you have a horse that is confused as to why some are running and some aren't. 

It's all about exposure. My horse used to lose his noodle when others would be cantering or trotting or jumping around him. Now, that he's been exposed to it, he's fine. He knows it's nothing to be afraid of and that I'll look after him.

Your stallion is still green and inexperienced. The best thing to do would be to start exposing him to situations with noise, other horses, weird sights, etc and curb his reactions by remaining his leader and re-directing his energy.

Stud or not, he needs to respect you.


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## KigerQueen

Op dose not intend to keep the horses studs. ANYONE who has go ten a young colt has had a 'stud' until it was able to be gelded. OP was not planning on a retained testie, so she had no way to plan on one. And its no ones business if she has studs and what she dose with them. She was asking a genuine question.


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## GreySorrel

KigerQueen said:


> Op dose not intend to keep the horses studs. ANYONE who has go ten a young colt has had a 'stud' until it was able to be gelded. OP was not planning on a retained testie, so she had no way to plan on one. And its no ones business if she has studs and what she dose with them. She was asking a genuine question.




There are many clubs and events that will not allow a stallion to be present when out riding on trails, due to the safety issues and the inability of a rider to properly keep them under control. I personally would not want to ride around or near someone who can't keep their horse in check and in control. 

Before the OP takes that young stallion out in public again, she needs to work on ground manners and under saddle, and exposure, where it is in a more safe setting. No excuses, no well he is this, or he is that.


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## DuffyDuck

As soon as 'STUD' is thrown in, everyone jumps up and down waving red flags in each other's faces. I had it done to me, and I sure as hell didn't appreciate it then, nor do I find it amusing now. To clarify, it wasn't this forum.

Can we PLEASE clarify amongst ourselves. This is a TRAINING issue. Okay, testosterone may be helping to fuel the fire, but even when he is gelded, and left 6 weeks or 6 months, it's now in his head to play silly games.

OP. Last July I bought a 3yo stallion. I waited a month to get the money to geld. I find from your posts that you are being as responsible as you can in the situation you have. I would have loved for a home job. Would have cost €250. Because he had huge knackers, I had to pay €700 at a clinic (could have chosen a cheaper one, but he was my special lad). So I saved for it. 

I had a yard owner who had her own stallions though.

I find a lot of problems stem from other owners who are not knowledgeable about stallions. I had people freak out when I walked past, or people dismount if I rode with mares. (This horse had no idea he still had balls or what to do with them)

However, after a while he started getting fitter and tried to rear and spin in hand a few times. That was quickly amended.

My advice? If you can hold off riding until he is gelded, do so. Do groundwork until your hands fall off. Speaking of which, good gloves will help.

Are you in a position where you can lunge in an enclosed area close to where other horses are running barrels etc? Don't do it in the same area in case he breaks free. Put his bridle on, attach the lunge to the bit ring. If you have a lunge girth, put it on and use side reins. These don't have to be tight.

And work him. Work his *** off. If he is fine in every other situation, he has your number and is playing you for a fiddle.

Or, in hand (and please where a hard hat and gloves in case he bolts rears etc) do groundwork. Backing up, forwards, side ways. You want his sole focus on you and you alone.
That is just my opinion, however. It worked complete wonders with my ex stallion, and a rat *** appy I worked with that liked to impress with teeth and hooves

I wish you best of luck with him, no matter if you keep or sell and that the operation goes well!


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## Zexious

I think the reason that people jump down the throat of a poster who mentions having a stud is because there are lots of irresponsible horse owners; I'm not saying that's what OP is, or anyone here is, just pointing it out. And the last thing that an irresponsible horse owner needs is a stallion, that could potentially father unwanted little baby horses (by owner's choice, or by accident).
The first post did make OP sound like a bit of a novice, mostly because the situation given wasn't a clear one.

But, the fact remains that it's her horse (that she is planning to geld, which I think is a wise choice), and it's ultimately her decision.


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## SouthernTrails

.

*I am appalled at some of the snark and comments in this thread*

Some need to re-read our rules:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-forum-rules-announcements/horse-forum-rules-354/


> *7- Respect your fellow members.*
> Please respect all members and their beliefs. Sometimes people think it is ok to criticize someone based on their training methods or riding style. This boils down to "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". If someone posts about jumping 3 feet for the first time, and you don't like jumping, then ignore the post. On the other hand, if someone posts a thread saying that their training method is the best, you -do- have the right to respectfully disagree with them in a kind, non attacking way.


http://www.horseforum.com/horse-forum-rules-announcements/conscientious-etiquette-policy-6069/


> The Horse Forum was created so that people can discuss horses in a friendly, fun, helpful environment. While the Horse Forum is open to the public, we reserve the right to restrict access to those who undermine our efforts to preserve the character of the community.
> 
> Please exercise what we call conscientious etiquette when you post. This means that you keep the objective of preserving the forum's friendly, fun, helpful environment in the forefront of your mind as you write your message.
> 
> If your post is nasty, condescending, rude, etc., regardless of how subtle, and whether shrouded in the form of opinion or otherwise, it is subject to be removed and your access to the Horse Forum may be restricted.


Let me see if I have all the comments correctly

1) No one should own a Stud unless they are an expert
2) No one should own more than 1 Stud
3) No one should own a Horse unless they Have 10,000.00 saved up in the bank.
4) All studs will kill someone

People come here for Help and to learn, but I guess everyone who has made an unfriendly comments never was a Newbie or had a question they were unsure about.

Darn, I wish I was born knowing everything about Horses, my 50+ years would have been so much easier :lol:



Edit: Some post have been removed so some of the points are out of context, but reflected what some have implied in their posts. Some of which were removed.

Thread will remain open as long as The Horse Forum Policies and Intent of Polices are upheld....


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## pheonix

Thanks guys, I wasn't run off I have been fairly busy between school, work, and taking care of things around the barn. Everyone should be relieved to know my loan was approved and within the next week or two depending on the availability of a vet he should be a gelding. Thank you to everyone who helped answer my question.


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## texasgal

Good luck with him!


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## palogal

pheonix said:


> Thanks guys, I wasn't run off I have been fairly busy between school, work, and taking care of things around the barn. Everyone should be relieved to know my loan was approved and within the next week or two depending on the availability of a vet he should be a gelding. Thank you to everyone who helped answer my question.


Excellent! Good luck!


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## Cherie

Let me throw something else out there:

Around here we have a mix of $100,000.00 + show and race horses, $200.00 backyard horses, $40.00 neglected horses and thousands of ranch horses and 'using' horses.

If I had a top end show horse that was a monorchid (a cryptorchid has BOTH testicles retained in their abdomen), I would take him to one of the high end equine center and fork out the $3000.00 to $5000.00 or more to have him operated on in sterile surgical suite with gas anesthetic and and an expert surgeon.

If I have a horse worth less than the cost of the surgery, I call one of the mixed practice 'country Vets' around here (cow Vet to most of you) and pay him $300.00 for country surgery. I have had 5 or 6 gelded out on the grass with Rompun & Ketomine or Seratol & GG and all have been just fine. I have never had one get an infection or have any complications. 

We also check them pryor to surgery to see if the testicle might be low and right above a inguinal ring. If it happens to be that low, we just knock them down with Ketomine and Rompun and drag the wayward testicle down through the ring and castrate him the regular way.

You should hold a horse off of feed for 24 to 36 hours before surgery anyway. Sometimes you can 'find' the testicle with a rectal palpation and make the surgery much shorter and less complicated, especially for a 'high flanker'.

Then, the next thing I did was sell the horse's mother and any fillies out of her.


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## AlexS

SouthernTrailsGA said:


> .
> 
> *I am appalled at some of the snark and comments in this thread*
> 
> Some need to re-read our rules:
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-forum-rules-announcements/horse-forum-rules-354/
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-forum-rules-announcements/conscientious-etiquette-policy-6069/
> Let me see if I have all the comments correctly
> 
> 1) No one should own a Stud unless they are an expert
> 2) No one should own more than 1 Stud
> 3) No one should own a Horse unless they Have 10,000.00 saved up in the bank.
> 4) All studs will kill someone
> 
> People come here for Help and to learn, but I guess everyone who has made an unfriendly comments never was a Newbie or had a question they were unsure about.
> 
> Darn, I wish I was born knowing everything about Horses, my 50+ years would have been so much easier :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Some post have been removed so some of the points are out of context, but reflected what some have implied in their posts. Some of which were removed.
> 
> Thread will remain open as long as The Horse Forum Policies and Intent of Polices are upheld....
> 
> 
> .



I am not sure I could disagree with you more. A

I am sorry, if you are not experienced enough, you should not own a foal. I think that''s basic horse 101.

I am also sorry, but my opinion is that if you can't handle a stallion, then you probably also should not own one. I also think that's basic horse 101. 

If you cannot afford geldings of the multiple stallions you own, you should not have taken them in, bred them, or bought them. I think that's basic horse 101. 

It is not uncommon that a horse only drops one, so that should be part of the factor when you understand how much $ you need to geld. Add to that, three stallions, so times by three. 


This stallion is being handled like a normal mare or gelding, and it's not, nor is it behaving that way. The owner needs to know how to handle a stallion, or they geld. They are a safety hazard to both the horse and everyone else. 

Preventing us from telling this owner this, is doing a disservice to both the horse and owner.


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## demonwolfmoon

Southerntrails, I too would actually agree with well, what you disagree with.

I think that no one inexperienced should have a stud. I know there are good ones, but there are an awful lot of crazy, unpredictable ones. If a person is blinded to Pookies shortcomings, THEY ARE LIKELY TO GET HURT. Heck, even my SWEET yearlingish stunted crypto shetland colt lost his mind one day...suddenly. And with a big horse, thats all it takes to potentially really hurt someone!


Number 2 on your list.....well if you shouldnt have one stud you darn well shouldnt have 2 (or more!). Its just asking for problems! 

Three...we should all have money saved up, but its not always possible in this bad economy. So the amount need not be so large. Having something saved up is prudent. But Again, life happens. 


I think that the posters here are right to post their concerns, albeit some of us could stand to be more diplomatic. We can only respond with the bit of info the poster gives us. And you have to admit, there have been some trainwrecks lately!  People may have been wrong about the OP, but I think they were just trying to avoid another trainwreck.

Alex, I also disagree with you a bit here. I think that many people who have some common sense and avoid the "Zomg teh babeh horsie is so cuuuute! *hugz*" trap are probably ok to raise a foal. The huge issue with them beyond the potential for spoiling is unpredictability versus an adult horse. Ya just gotta be smarter than your horse.


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## SouthernTrails

.

There is no problem with disagreeing with myself or anyone who posts, it was the way some were putting the comments, some of which were put in a very rude way.

The Horse is 2 and a stud, yes any horse can hurt or kill you, does that mean all can? some seemed to reflect that sentiment that all could and you were stupid to own one or 3. There were nicer ways to say that in the original posts.

A mare we got at 19 months old with very little was very frisky and could have killed some people the way she would buck and fling her back feet around when we 1st got her, but with some ground work and patience she is now the sweetest best Horse in the world, should I have come to the conclusion Mare's can kill? She could have, so could the 2 year old stud my son bought one time, but he did not, I know a lot of people who have studs and ride them, many are some of the nicest horses.... to say as someone did all studs can kill.. is an overstatement.

Without knowing the whole situation it is unfair to jump on a poster and give ultimatums, one comment was no one should own a horse unless the have lots of money saved up, in a perfect world that is true, same can be said for kids, don't have any till you have money saved. But to unilaterally chastise people becuase they do not have money saved up is wrong.

There are ways to discuss things that you may see wrong without being rude, giving ultimatums and acting like you are perfect. We all learn by asking, school of hard knocks, etc.

I believe there were 7 post removed that were not of the friendly discussion type, thus the 4 comments.

What is the saying? Whoever is perfect cast the 1st stone? There were quite a few stones cast originally.

Yes, I make mistakes as most people do, but I learn better as most people do with examples and discussion, not ultimatums and having things rammed down my throat forcibly in a judgmental holier than thou way. 

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## Cherie

Southern -- I couldn't agree more. It is not necessary to be rude and snotty. If someone already owns a problem horse (like one that did not drop as anticipated) -- well, they already own him. Now, they have to go from there. Telling them that they should not have bought him is the most 'stupid' remark of all. They would probably like to have a 're-do' on that, too.

I'll bet half of the people that own horses should really not own them; but they make a living for an awful lot of other people that depend on them. Half or more of the people that try to train their own horses should not try and they produce an awful lot of the spoiled dinks out there that a bunch more people make a living off of (including the kill buyers and processing plants). BUT, somewhere along the way, quite a few of these people learn and become pretty good horsemen. They become productive members of the horse community. 

I've watched people come here with what would have to be called some pretty dumb questions that leave me shaking my head. And a year or two later they are giving some pretty good answers to some pretty dumb questions someone else has asked.

People have to start somewhere. We do not live in the rural society we used to live in years ago where most people grew up around livestock. We have city born and raised people now that decide they want to have horses. Some learn what they need to do it successfully and others never do. WE do not get to decide who should own what -- especially AFTER they already bought it. We just have to try to help them out of their mess from there. Being helpful and NOT accusatory or belittling is the best way to help them.

SO, stuff the snark and nasty remarks; delete them and re-write something helpful that will actually help these people get from the point they are at to a better place and help their horses out along the way. Putting down one poster after another may make YOU think you showing everyone how much you know, but it really just shows everyone what you are made of -- and it ain't good. Go somewhere else with it. It is not appreciated here.


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## faye

SOtuherntrails, yes stallions/colts are more dangerous in public perticularly if they get loose. I have been on the recieveing end or a couple of loose stallions on show grounds, one mounted my gelding whilst I was onboard forcing me into a nasty fall and scaring the crap out of my gelding who was never the same afterwards.

I've also had to pull children off thier ponies when a loose stallion was chasing up and down and chasing their ponies. I had to get those children off thier ponies to keep them safe (we are talking young children crica 7yrs old) unfortunatly one of the ponies was very badly injured by the stallion and had to be PTS on the show field (child was devestated)

Oh and anouther time where I recieved both barrels from a stallion who got loose and picked a fight with my gelding, I was trying to lead my gelding away (who whilst snorty and prancy was following where I led) Stallion lashed out and I got both barrels to the chest, resulting in a hospital trip.

In each one of these occasions the stallion was not generaly of breeding quality so would have been better off gelded anyway, but they were handled by inexperianced people (people inexperianced with stallions).

I know of a lot of well mannered beautifully behaved stallions who even if they got loose wouldnt dream of going anywhere or chasing other horses and infact could probably be caught and handled by a small child. But guess what all these paragons of virtue are owned and handled by very experienced people who have the knowlege and experiance to deal with those situations before they become situations and to drill manners into horses.

I've got 25+ yrs of experiance with horses, some pretty difficult ones on that but I still wouldnt take on a young stallion. I might take on an older stallion who has already had the manners drilled into him, but I'd be in very close contact with a stud or breeder who has a lot more experiance than I do.

Anyone keeping horses should have something put aside or access to a creditcard to pay for unexpected bills. Hell even having a horse PTS in an emergancy can cost £300.


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## DuffyDuck

Putting money to the side is all well and fine, but the OP has said she would have the money for the 'norm' but feels it is wiser to get a specialist look at the horse.

If required, I can drum up €3000. But if my bills come to €4000, I will try and wait. Naturally where possible.

But the main thing here is not the money, but the fact the OP wanted help in dealing with a rude, pig headed nuisance of a stud.

And she got everything but.

I agree 100% with you Faye, if trained correctly stallions can be wonderful to be around. But there are a fair few owners who don't bother with the extra work that owning a stallion can be. And that is when things become dangerous.

Some on this thread didn't ask for more details, but had a nice snark. Some of us all have bad days, but I think the lesson here is don't treat every stud owner like a kid with three months of lessons under their belt with dreams of making pretty ponies until all the facts are there 

Either way, I think the OP has all the details she needs for now.. lets just hope she comes back!


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## GreySorrel

faye said:


> SOtuherntrails, yes stallions/colts are more dangerous in public perticularly if they get loose. I have been on the recieveing end or a couple of loose stallions on show grounds, one mounted my gelding whilst I was onboard forcing me into a nasty fall and scaring the crap out of my gelding who was never the same afterwards.
> 
> I've also had to pull children off thier ponies when a loose stallion was chasing up and down and chasing their ponies. I had to get those children off thier ponies to keep them safe (we are talking young children crica 7yrs old) unfortunatly one of the ponies was very badly injured by the stallion and had to be PTS on the show field (child was devestated)
> 
> Oh and anouther time where I recieved both barrels from a stallion who got loose and picked a fight with my gelding, I was trying to lead my gelding away (who whilst snorty and prancy was following where I led) Stallion lashed out and I got both barrels to the chest, resulting in a hospital trip.
> 
> In each one of these occasions the stallion was not generaly of breeding quality so would have been better off gelded anyway, but they were handled by inexperianced people (people inexperianced with stallions).
> 
> I know of a lot of well mannered beautifully behaved stallions who even if they got loose wouldnt dream of going anywhere or chasing other horses and infact could probably be caught and handled by a small child. But guess what all these paragons of virtue are owned and handled by very experienced people who have the knowlege and experiance to deal with those situations before they become situations and to drill manners into horses.
> 
> I've got 25+ yrs of experiance with horses, some pretty difficult ones on that but I still wouldnt take on a young stallion. I might take on an older stallion who has already had the manners drilled into him, but I'd be in very close contact with a stud or breeder who has a lot more experiance than I do.
> 
> Anyone keeping horses should have something put aside or access to a creditcard to pay for unexpected bills. Hell even having a horse PTS in an emergancy can cost £300.



I will back Faye up with the fact that I too have been on the receiving end of a draft stallion loose on the show grounds, almost killing a gelding, double barrel kicking my husband who was thrown backwards and sustained some pretty substantial bruising and damage to the muscles of his upper thighs, then going after my mare and attempting to mount her and biting her hips. She had none of that, she has always preferred a gentleman and laid one of his front legs open.

Many of us get tired of the mindset that some posters have that they can train the problem out or, lack of experience, take that animal out in public when it has no business being there. We answer questions over and over again, sometimes to no avail. We have also seen posters do what they want regardless of what they are cautioned or told or suggested to do, after a while this jades others. Basically it is the same old same old. 

A stallion is not for everyone, I personally have known some great and not so great stallions, but in the end, I know that while I have horse experience, showing, basic training, ownership, etc. I don't have the facility, time and experience to own one. My first thought would be the people around me, if my insurance was paid up and if that animal hurts someone else or another horse, can I pay those bills? We all know that today's society is very sue happy.


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## rookie

I had never heard Cherie's term "monorchid" so I looked it up. It is used in reference to one testicle being retained. Cryptorchid can refer to one or both testicles being retained within the abdomen. Crypt is from the latin for "hidden" and orchid is latin for testicle. So its literally "hidden testicle". Which means I learned something new because I have only ever heard of cryptorchids and never monorchids. 

As far as the OP's original question. I still say geld him before you sell him and geld him before you start addressing his behavior issue. If you get in his cross hairs a spoiled/snotty stud is a whole new ballpark compared to a spoiled/snotty gelding. Its really not my business how many stallions you have. I just want more well mannered stallions and fewer dangerous/snotty/spoiled/ "selectively behaved" stallions in the world.


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## pheonix

I ask a question about a stallion who has had more than a years worth of training and had more issues than you can count on one hand when I rescued him. Whom I planned on gelding and the only thing you people could offer up was insults? I have had a ton of experience with stallions and am capable of caring and handling one. I can afford to have a normal gelding procedure, but I wouldn't trust the only equine vet in my area to touch a stallion with this issue, being as the last stallion he cut wasn't done right and is now as studly as an actual stud (no I do not own this horse). Even if you don't consider me qualified to handle a stud my fiance for sure is and he was there every time I had anything to do with my stud. He has had many years experience with studs not to mention he is a vet technician. My simple question was "if he was a gelding would he still react this way?" I asked a simple question I did not ask weather you thought I should or shouldn't own him or any of my other horses for that matter, as it is none of your concern. I asked about one behavioral error that one specific horse, who just so happened to be a stallion has.


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## SouthernTrails

.

Thread closed....

It is a shame someone cannot ask a question and get a answer or even have a debate without feeling ridiculed or judged, sorry Pheonix.


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