# Not horse abuse, Lambs for Coats



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Nothing shows up from the link


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

It worked for me: 




This is the first I am hearing of lambs being used for coats. I've seen lambskin lining, but never seen a full coat. 
The video doesn't really surprise me though aside from the premature lambs which I have never heard of before. I don't wear fur for many reasons, the animals being one of them and as far as I can tell, this is pretty much the same as other animals being used for fur.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Many countries and cultures do things differently then here doesn't make them wrong at all. In the U.S. we slaughter 1000's of bred cattle every day.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I think the main objection is not to what they do in uzbekistan but an objection to America and Europe giving the demand for the pelts. It seems to me that it's not a cultural thing, but a buissiness that they are profiting off of due to american and european fashion.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Very well could be its a big world and most countries import and export products.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Yes, I realize this. 
My point was that this practice isn't really a cultural thing like the title "sacrifice" may imply.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Not to get into the middle of a fray but is there a difference between that and what is done to produce shoes, wallets, handbags, saddles, etc. Does it make a difference in the quality of life if the animal is 3 days or 3 years old when it is butchered?


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

No, I don't think so iridehorses. 
Personally, the only leather I use is my horse equipment. I just don't like it in general. I don't use fur products but I'm not going to pour blood on someone who does. I don't really see a differance between the lambs and cattle being used for leather. 
Honestly, I am more against animal products for fashion than food. But like I said, I am guilty of having a leather saddle. 

Question though: Is the leather used to make wallets, shoes, etc off of cattle killed for food or are they raised like the lambs for leather? I really have no idea about that.


----------



## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

wow... the poor things are not even 3 days old =(


----------



## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

the poor things arent even born yet, thats just horrible.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

With the not born thing -- Wouldn't it be difficult to produce enough lambs to make a coat like this if you are killing the mother too?I wonder how they pull that off.


----------



## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

I refuse to own anything leather or anything that has fur (unless its alive of course)
Even my tack is going to be all nylon, or pleather (like wintec).


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Why is this any worse then killing bred cows for hamburgers at Burger King or McDonalds?


----------



## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

Cuz they get used. Coats? Come on, use synthetics. Especially since these are babies (my mothing instict coming out). They toss out the bodies, at the very least they could use the meat. It's just such a waste.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Not everyone wants to use sythetics nor should they I see nothing worse about lambs then calfs and think just because someone likes one product over another its then acceptable. To me all species are equal


----------



## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

All species, fine, when you have children should I kill their mother and skin your baby for my new coat?
Not all species are equal, watch what you type.
It seems as though all you want is an argument.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Seems to me the one picking a fight is you not me. When I said all species I'm talking livestock not people. Skinning people is illegal I in no way advocate doing illegal things animal or people I honestly never thought I'd have to explain the difereance between livestock laws and people laws.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

BTW I have children, 3 to be exact also 8 grand children. But no I don't think you should skin anyone to make a coat. Rather silly queastion you asked don't you think?


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Like I said I really see no differance between the lambs or the calfs from cows going to fast food places in the U.S. other then maybe somethinking since its a product they use its then fine? When I was in Korea they ate dogs many people thought it wasteful that the U.S. kills millions of them every year, burns, buries, or grinds them up then boils them to a liquid and uses them in household products. Its a huge world out there and thankfully not all places do things the same way as others.


----------



## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

I wouldn't have so much of an issue with the lamb for coats thing if the meat was used. I mean seriously, put the whole animal to use, such a waste.
I have stated my position on meat before, I am no vegan. I also do not live in Korea, if I did then I might care. I don't though, so I dont really care to hear about another country or their practices. 
This is a forum, and when you type stuff people cannot always tell what you mean so you have to be specific, and you seem to contradict your self consistently. If you're not, well sorry, but thats how it seems to me. 
I am leaving a thread I started. Thanks.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

If you don't care about other countries or what they do why did you start this post? The one that seems to contradicting themself is you not me.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I think she meant she does not live in a country where it is common practice to eat horse/dog/other commonly domestic type animals. She does however live in a country where it is common practice to wear fur. So the country in question is killing the animals for America (amoungst others)

Or at least that's how I understood it.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

We kill bred cows for meat in other countries I really don't see the right with one but wrong with the other.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

county, you've made your point - there is no point in continuing.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I was responding to a post made to me. Or at least I thought it was?


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Again ... point made. Let's move on.


----------



## Sophie19 (Apr 13, 2009)

I own a lamb skin jacket. Its very nice supple leather. Much softer and lighter than cowhide. I don't know why the fact that it's a baby makes much of a difference since most stock animals have poor quality of life anyway.


----------



## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

younger animals have softer hide becuase it has not been harden up tho life.


----------



## boxer (Feb 20, 2009)

county, the way I see it the difference between this practise and the practise of killing cows and sheep for food is that it is so much more wasteful and it is done to satisfy a human want, not a need. We need animals for food, we don't need them to provide some high end fashion item. yes we need clothing but this type of clothing is not practical because it is so wasteful.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Theres lots of people in the world that live without meat. I just can't jump on the bandwagon somethings OK to do because I use one product but something else is bad because I don't.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I have to agree with county on this one. We don't need meat, we certainly don't need lamb chops - lamb, not sheep. What I find particularly disturbing is the waste. 

I believe that what we are shocked about is the reality of it. If you take a youngster raised in the inner city and put him out in the country, he/she would be shocked to see where the chicken he gets at the supermarket actually comes from and not that it just shows up in the meat section all packaged.

What we take as shocking, others take as a fact of life - or livelihood.


----------



## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

I haven't read most of the replies to this topic, this is just my unbiased openion. 

It is not so much the concept of killing lambs that bothers me, but the way it is done in that video. Killing the mothers along with the babies is unnessisary in my eyes. Plus, they didn't even use the lambs' bodies for meat. I mean, that is wasteful. 

I think I heard someone say that this took place in a poor country. If they were truely poor and hanging on by almost nothing, they should have eaten those lambs or sold them for food or something.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree, the biggest problem I see here is waste. 

I still don't really agree how you could...make a profit (?) off of the in utero lambs since you are killing the mother as well. You would have to raise another sheep to impregnate and kill again. With the amount of lamb skin needed to make a coat, I don't really see how they pull that off? Does anyone know?


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I guess the process is what makes it so expensive.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Theres no shortage of cows here in the U.S. even though we kill bred ones. Theres many many more ewes in the world then cows, goat meat is the largest consumed meat in the world followed by mutton/lamb.


----------



## Shawneen (Apr 22, 2009)

:barf:


----------



## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

Brighteyes said:


> I haven't read most of the replies to this topic, this is just my unbiased openion.
> 
> It is not so much the concept of killing lambs that bothers me, but the way it is done in that video. Killing the mothers along with the babies is unnessisary in my eyes. Plus, they didn't even use the lambs' bodies for meat. I mean, that is wasteful.
> 
> I think I heard someone say that this took place in a poor country. If they were truely poor and hanging on by almost nothing, they should have eaten those lambs or sold them for food or something.





Spastic_Dove said:


> I agree, the biggest problem I see here is waste. I still don't really agree how you could...make a profit (?) off of the in utero lambs since you are killing the mother as well. You would have to raise another sheep to impregnate and kill again. With the amount of lamb skin needed to make a coat, I don't really see how they pull that off? Does anyone know?


I agree strongly with both of you. that idea does seem very wasteful and a better way than will be beter for the everyone involved and the lambs too.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Why would they eat the lambs when theres millions of them in the country already? And just who would they sell them to virtually everyone has sheep there they use them for food, fibre, and milk. Does anyone actually beleive they sell these lambs to be cruel? Abusive? They don't need the money? They can make as much with them other ways? Their not a poor country?

Lets at least try and be real about it.


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I see anything dead (animals not humans) that isn't being used as waste. Even movies depicting the days of the buffalo hunter. They killed them by the thousands just taking the hides and leaving the meat. Native Americans were puzzled and saddened by the waste of the white man. 
I'm not a road kill eater (I know those who are) but I see dead deer along the side of the road and I'm saddened by the waste. I see the same in this situation but it sickens me more since it is done in the name of vanity.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I guess I don't see the waste angle when we kill livestock here and throw away so much? To me its either right or wrong across the board not right in this country but wrong in another.


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Do we waste so much? Aren't the words "animal by-products" the stuff thats used in so many other things like dog food, cat food and thousands of other products? Don't we use the meat, bone, skin, hair, hooves, ears, noses etc of the butchered animals? When a dollar can be made off an animal part I doubt most corporations waste much. 
Again I see the video wasteful since it is done just in the name of vanity. Not so much the waste of the lamb but the waste of the meat from the mother.


----------



## ItalianCutie9407 (May 22, 2009)

That's horrible!


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Very good point Vida. 

Vanity. 
Meat isn't required obviously, I'm not going to try and say it is. The fact that the reason the animals are dying is for a coat that is in fashion is the part that personally bothers me. 
Is it illegeal? No. It still bothers -me- though because for some reason in my head, vanity is something I dislike more than someone who likes a burger. 

If it were taking place in America, my opinion on the matter wouldn't change.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Call me crazy but I don't see poor people making a living as vanity. Nor feeding themselves and their families. Wonder what the average person in that part of the world has for a yearling income?


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm not criticizing the people supplying, I am criticizing the people demanding.


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

county said:


> Call me crazy but I don't see poor people making a living as vanity. Nor feeding themselves and their families. Wonder what the average person in that part of the world has for a yearling income?


If they were that poor they should eat the mutton.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm sure they do eat some but just how much do you think they can eat? If everyone here has cattle and they used the fetus for something rather then just kill cows and toss the fetus in the scrap pile just how many of those cows could you eat? They need to make a living, theres a demand for a product they have. If your options are kill the ewe and sell the fetus or be even poorer then you are with no money to support your family which option would you take? Me a real easy choice for me.


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Its not like these people have freezers or even access to any to store meat and other food most don't even have electricity. I've been to Hati, Guatemala, the mountain regions of Korea, and Viet Nam those are just 4 countries with very poor areas in them even the poorest of the poor in this country live like Kings compared to those people. 

BTW similar things do take place in the U.S. and the vast majority support it by buying products from thiose industries.


----------



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

To each their own opinions


----------



## county (Nov 29, 2008)

I don't think facts are opinions.


----------



## boxer (Feb 20, 2009)

waste in any country in the world is a problem. capitalism is supposed to be the most efficient system there is (so say the economists) but with so much waste it can not be. there is waste in many industries not just animal industries. Think about how much food supermarkets throw out each day just because it has tiny blemish on it or a tin is dented. These lamb carcasses are being wasted. If there is noone to eat them then they are being raised purely for vanity and fashion (the buyers vanity) which is not a need. People do not need to wear $5000 dollar coats. I don't blame the farmer for this becuase everyone has to make a living, I blame the consumer who thinks only about themselves and not the greater good of our world.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Well said, Boxer.


----------



## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I find it disturbing that anyone would slaughter a baby animal. 
I won't eat lamb or veal or any type of baby animal. That's just sick, even if it's considered to be a cultural tradition or way of life or whatever.


----------



## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

the other side of that is lamb is the name for sheep meat ie lamb cuts and any sheep under 24 months. and most sluaghter weight of sheep is hit between 6 and 12 months.
Lamb and mutton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------

