# Project horse- rearing when mounting!



## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Hey guys,

Well I am considering buying a youngster or a project horse to break in or bring on to be my horse 

Anyways,
I have found a suitable horse that seems really nice but has obviously been ruined through ignorance.
There are videos of him ridden and jumping but hasnt been ridden for several months due to lack of time.

He is apparently difficult to catch when not in a routine which im not bothered about but he also has problems with mounting.
The owner says when he's fresh out of the stable they have attempted to mount him and as soon as he feels the pressure he rears.

I would probably completely restart him as he has potential but im just wondering what people think is the best way to deal with a horse that rears when you mount and if you think he's worth taking on?
I would probably start just like starting a youngster so leaning over, jumping up and down etc.

Thanks,
Sarah


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

As you said, start all over! This animal was probably pushed way too fast! Not enough time given to him to fully understand what is going on and why you are getting on him. The other thing is to have him fully vet checked before purchase.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Thats my feelings too, from the sound of it he was broken in and ridden by people who had no idea and now he obviously has issues that stem from that. 
I would probably completely start over so I hope that rearing whilst mounting would never be an issue. 
This is the link for his advert:Welsh Sec D, Chestnut, Gelding for sale in West Midlands | Horsemart


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Sorry for double post. Do you have training experience or feel confident in yourself to get a difficult job done? Do you have all the time in the world to devote to him? Time to help him through his fears? Cuz that's what it will take. Good luck and stay safe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Thats okay. I have broken in several horses and taken on project horses before that have issues so I definitely feel confident enough to take him on. I just wondered what peoples thoughts were on the rearing when mounting as its one area I havent had much experience in but id like to hope that as im going 2 go back to basics when it comes to mounting we wont have this issue.


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Also, do you think its possible that he's cold backed?


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Don't know what cold backed is but go back to basics and when you get to the point of mounting, start slow like you would a colt. Feet in stirrup, up, stand, get down. Doing that several times! When he is comfortable with you doing that swing your leg over and sit. Rub on him all over and get down. Doing that several times. And hopefully with time and patience. You can get him over his fear.

The other thing when mounting him is to gather one rein in your hand and flex his neck to his inside toward you. This will prevent him from moving forward and upward. But do this from the ground first. Getting him Super soft on both sides. It will help before you get up on him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

VERY good post 'mbender'. That is almost exactly what I will be doing although I didnt think about the flexing his neck idea. Thats a helpful tip thankyou. Il update this post or make a new one when I go to see him and let you know what I think of him


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Your welcome. I hope you can be the one to help him and not give up. He needs a strong and confident person. Good luck! Let me know if anything else arises and I'll do what I can to help you out. Training is my passion and I love to help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks very much  I hope so too. He seems perfect for what I want and fingers crossed he's as good in the flesh.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

carrot stretches every day before and after riding and whenever else you have time to do them.

check saddle fit - if he was ridden regularly then was not - chances are his muscling changed - which can absolutely affect saddle fit.

get on by leaning across the saddle (as if it was a youngster) and then get off in literally seconds. tons of praise. repeat til you can get on, sit, get off. like you said start over with the very basics where the session is just minutes long until he's bored with that. let him tell you when to progress.

but first i absolutely recommend checking saddle fit and for chiro issues. rearing is usually saddle pinching shoulder/hitting withers when it is pain related (not always though).

i definitely think you are on the right track!


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Thankyou  All your advice is always good on this forum. Thanks again guys


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Personaly something that is known to rear is a deal breaker for me. I will cope with anything else except rearing!

Anyway if he is cold backed watch them put the saddle on. If you put the saddle on, and do the girth up fairly quickly (no quicker then normaly but dont dither about it or do it up hole by hole) the horse will flinch noticably.

A quick test for a bad back is to run your nuckles down either side of his spine from wither to loin pressing fairly hard. if the horse flinches he has a sore spot there.
I can do this on my youngster and know that he wont flinch at all. If I did it to my 30 yearold I would find a sor spot on his near side about half way along.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

I suggested a vet check but do all you can physically by yourself if you know what your looking for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm with faye on this one. Any horse that is known to have rearing in his repertoire is one that I don't really want to mess with, as it can be one of the most dangerous behaviors if the horse were to flip on top of the rider. I've heard too many horror stories to make it worth it for me.

It sounds like he may have been backed too quickly, may not have a correctly fitted saddle, or might be cold backed... but what if he doesn't? What if rearing is just his response to anything overwhelming for him? It would be very challenging to anticipate, and really freaky for me.

That's just my two cents.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Eolith said:


> I'm with faye on this one. Any horse that is known to have rearing in his repertoire is one that I don't really want to mess with, as it can be one of the most dangerous behaviors if the horse were to flip on top of the rider. I've heard too many horror stories to make it worth it for me.


If no one wanted to take the time to "mess" with horses that reared, my husband would not have his mare now. Horses learn to rear to avoid pressure.

For the horse in question here, I would check the withers.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I've had one come over on me, luckily I managed to get clear but it was scarey as hell.. Give me a bolter any day! buckers are easy (stan could buck for England), I will not get on a rearer!!

I personaly think that rearers should be left for the proffessionals to deal with and IMO if a horse has learnt to rear to get away from something then it will always have the inclination to go up to avoid something it doesnt like. Thats one of the reasons you should never put a sidesaddle on anything that is inclined to rear, you cant get free of a side saddle and the weight will pull them over.
Its one of the reasons I never put stan sidesaddle eventhough he would have swept the board in the SS classes. In the 10 years that I owned him he reared twice on me, both times due to a badly fitting saddle, first time he came over on me, second time he did a levade and practicaly sat down, but it was enough to confirm that he did think that way and no way on earth was I risking sidesaddle on him.

Reeco on the other hand is more inclined to bolt, and he is gone before you know it!


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, it's the inclination I'm worried about. He might be fine for months or years... but then for some reason -- any reason, he is triggered to rear. Certain horses do certain things as an evasion... all of them have their own "choice" method, and rearing is just not one that I want anything to do with.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Stans method of choice was usualy bucking but it was the very occassional rear that made me not put a ss on him.

Reeco on the other hand had been presented with many scarey things/situations and his inclination has always been to run, he has never shown any inclination, even inhand to ever think about rearing.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Agree with previous posters; my first thought on rearing upon being mounted is "pain, bad saddle fit." Something else that can cause issues with mounting and green horses is and inexperienced handler having the horse in a death grip, or and inexperienced rider mounting clumsily and challenging the horse's balance. If the handler doesn't allow the horse to take a step to balance themselves, the horse may panic and rear. 

The advice you were given about re-backing and bellying over was excellent. 

IMO and IME (because there are differences of opinion about this) it is best to let newly under saddle horses walk a few steps while being mounted; standing perfectly still for being mounted should be introduced later when the horse's balance under the rider is better established. This prevents the paniced rear as the rider's weight is added and the horse feels he can't take a step to balance. 

If you have a really good ground person, get them to give you a leg up while the horse walks in a small circle, a la racehorses. There's a reason you see riders being put up this way on racehorses, it's much, much easier on the horses' backs. 

I completely respect faye's point of view about dealing with rearing, but I put this type of rearing in a different category than rearing under saddles as a refusal to go forward. The rear while being mounted is almost always caused by a combo of pain and bad handling.


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

I have to state that for some reason the horse was being ridden by the ladys novice boyfriend when he reared which to me could most probably be from him being too heavy and landing clumsily/heavily etc.

Apprarently this is the only time he's reared and only twice-obviously owner could be lying but that would be my choice to believe her or not.
I agree with rearing being highly dangerous which is why I thought id see peoples opinions but I do believe this horse has been rushed or maybe in pain as rearing is not his response to everything.

I may not be overly experienced because I believe everyone can still learn something but I have dealt with many problem horses and broken in several horses and a project is what I want so im prepared to put in the time and be patient.

And yes whoever said it, I would be restarting him and therefore would start with bellying etc. 

Tbh someone has to help him! Horses rear for a reason and although its dangerous i consider bolting highly dangerous, maybe even more so than rearing.

In terms of a vet check.. I know enough to tell if he's lame or not and feel down his back like people have suggested but for the price i'd pay for him do you all think I should still get a vet check? Iv bought all my 3 horses without a vet check as I paid under £800 for all of them.


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

'maura' i agree with everything you've said which is also why i thought that he could possibly be cold backed because owner said he only reared when got on fresh from the stable and even after rearing he was fine to ride after he'd relaxed which to me suggests cold back.
so your suggestion of getting on whilst walking around is a good idea.

i could obviously be completely mistaken but if im correct and the rearing seems to be from pain/confusion then i think he's worth trying to help. apart from this being bad to catch is his only other problem and being green.

p.s. hes 8 years old but obviously has been messed up and not ridden etc so id count him as mentally and phsycially green


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Eolith said:


> It sounds like he may have been backed too quickly, may not have a correctly fitted saddle, or might be cold backed... but what if he doesn't? What if rearing is just his response to anything overwhelming for him? It would be very challenging to anticipate, and really freaky for me.
> 
> 
> > I have to say that i believe this horse rearing when mounted is something to do with some part of your first sentence...
> > From the sounds of it he hasnt reared over anything else only mounting so surely theres a reason for that and its not just his natural reaction...


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

SarahRicoh said:


> From the sounds of it he hasnt reared over anything else only mounting so surely theres a reason for that and its not just his natural reaction...


Picture in your mind how some people mount. They PPPUUULLLL themselves up, throw their leg over and plop down hard. I'd protest too.

Add in a saddle that was pinching his withers or a cinch that was done too tightly so the poor guy could barely catch a breath and they are fortunate all he did was rear.


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Hmmm thats completely true 'mls'.

From the sounds of it he did this once and the 'novice' boyfriend lost confidence and bought a sane cob so ryan(the project horse) has just been left.

Im sure I could turn him into a really nice horse- he deffo has potential


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

SarahRicoh said:


> Also, do you think its possible that he's cold backed?


He's a looker eh. With good training and some miles on him, you could make a good buck on this little guy. It is possible he could be cold backed. What I do with him is set up a good routine on the ground before you start working with him in saddle. Make sure you run out all his energy first before you ask anything else of him. It sounds like you're going to have to start everything all over from scratch. Make sure he respects you and he knows that he can't get away with things. He's in new hands now, and needs to know that it's a new life, a great one-therefor new rules than the bad ones he had before. 
The way I've started all my horses under saddle is starting up with lunging. Start off your work with him on the lunge line, if he's cold backed, shammies are a really nice way to help with that. Add a shammy under your tack and work him hard on the lunge line. Keep the stirrups down and work with him at all 3 paces and get those bucks out and whatever else he needs out of his system.

Something I should have asked before, have you worked with difficult horses before? if you're not sure, I would work with a trainer, or someone who has more experience than you. I've had a rescue once in the past, that was quite difficult to start and took a long time to rebuild everything from the ground up. He was cold backed as well, which adds all sorts of fun to the equation. Make sure that you're ready to put all that work and time(and health risks)into it.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

my mare about 2 months ago started acting strange. She wouldn't finish all her food or hay, droped a bit of weight, and when I would go to ride her she would be very fussy. I linked this to the new grass that had just started to come in, and she is by her self on 2 1/2 acres. So I lunged her 1 time a day for a week. At the end of that week she had calmed down a lot. So I tried to get back on her. All was fine and dandy for about 2 minutes then it started again. As soon as we got past her pasture she reared up. When she came back down she landed funny dislodging me so i jumped the rest of the way off. I jumped just in time to watch as she fell on to her side and rolled down the slight incline 3 to 4 times(I don't remember I was in shock.)

She HAD never done any thing like this EVER! The place I board is a self board kind of place so there is all kinds of people. one of them just so happend to be a john lyons trainer. I had been the only one to do any training with Sonador since she was a year old but I knew I had hit my limit. She has been working with sonador for 2 months now (once a week I fallow up on training on the other days) She has been on her 4 times now and is passing with flying colors.

All she did was make her give to the bit and do some disingage the hind and front end on the ground. 

Now that I look back I realised she probably had an ulser because of how much grain I was giving to keep weight on her. Since then I have switched her to a only forage and alfalfa pellet diet. I have seen a big diffrence since the insadent.

If you do plan to take this guy on PLEASE be very carefull. Before you put you foot in the sturrup put you hand in it and jump up and down putting pressure on it.


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## slc (Jan 30, 2011)

I would take on a project horse with a lot of other issues, but not those.

I would suggest looking for a different project horse. That one doesn't sound like a good deal. Even if you can make him stop it for you, he's probably going to start back up the minute someone less skilled gets near him.

Project horses are very, very different from horses we get for ourselves, we have to constantly be thinking of selling them and who will buy them and how it will go. 

It's good not to make excuses for them, instead, to be very practical and sensible about them, and think about what's the most likely to happen, rather than what's the most unlikely to happen, such as that it would all be fixed and multiple tryouts and finally a sale would succeed. 

I shudder to think what that horse would be like after a couple weeks of every Tom, **** and Harry stopping by to try him out and ying-yangin' around on him.

You might be able to get on and start turning the horse in a circle and keep him on the ground, but you can't guarantee anyone else will - or that your training will take rearing out of him for all time.


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## slc (Jan 30, 2011)

A cold backed horse bucks, rears or the like, and the idea is that something is wrong with his back, and that's why he bucks, rears, or etc.

I have mixed feelings about it really existing. I think some cold backed horses simply are not muscled up and supple in the back, and I think others are fresh (not enough work for long periods of time) or they just have figured out if they buck the rider falls off.

Some horses, they simply buck, and no one really ever figures out why. My friend's mare was like that. Would take off bucking like a crazy thing and then turn right round and run back and nudge her where she was laying on the ground. I'm not really sure horses always 'know' they are getting the rider off. 

My friend's gelding she said was 'cold backed', but I always thought she had rushed him into the double bridle and not developed enough muscle in his back and hind quarter.

I do think horses sometimes really do have things wrong with their backs - though I am not so sure kissing spine is such a legitimate culprit for every case. A very high % of horses on autopsy have kissing spine without ever having had those same behaviors in life.

And a great many horses have muscular soreness in the back without ever bucking, so I'm not so sure that's it. 

Hopefully MRI's and other imaging techniques will sort that out some day. Til then, some horses just simply seem to have developed those behaviors, for whatever reason.

The mistake I think, is to believe that we can always fix them.


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## bwilliam777 (Feb 25, 2011)

Hi Sarah. This horse sounds like it doesnt need to be restarted but that it has figured out that when it rears while the rider is mounting it can intimidate the rider and possibly sometimes get put back out in the pasture where it wants to go. It is a nasty little habit and I have had several horses over the years come in for training that had developed this habit with its owner. You need to know how a horse thinks. They ussually think as they would in a herd situation and many horses dont really want to be the low man on the totem pole. They will try to achieve a higher rank in the herd than you and by succeeding at intimidation or bad behavior they can instill their authority on the rider and in their mind put themselves in the dominant position or position of the herd leader. No matter how advanced the training is it always is based on association and repetition. If the horse associates misbehavior with a correction and good behavior with an easy light handed wonderful rider they will soon figure out that good = pleasant and bad = not pleasant and being made to behave. For instance if your horse bites you and you give him a carrot he will not only continue to bite but when you dont give him a carrot he will bite more. If you have not dealt with horses which are doninant and misbehaved before, this could possibly turn out to be a bad situation. The most dangerous thing that a horse can do is rear and eventually flip if his rearing is not corrected. In experienced hands this issue will be fixed quickly but in inexperienced hands this horse could turn into a nightmare. And I have had several horses that came to me for training because they started like this and then they ended up being flippers. Good luck, stay safe and have fun!


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

bwilliam777 said:


> Hi Sarah. This horse sounds like it doesnt need to be restarted but that it has figured out that when it rears while the rider is mounting it can intimidate the rider and possibly sometimes get put back out in the pasture where it wants to go. It is a nasty little habit and I have had several horses over the years come in for training that had developed this habit with its owner. You need to know how a horse thinks. They ussually think as they would in a herd situation and many horses dont really want to be the low man on the totem pole. They will try to achieve a higher rank in the herd than you and by succeeding at intimidation or bad behavior they can instill their authority on the rider and in their mind put themselves in the dominant position or position of the herd leader. No matter how advanced the training is it always is based on association and repetition. If the horse associates misbehavior with a correction and good behavior with an easy light handed wonderful rider they will soon figure out that good = pleasant and bad = not pleasant and being made to behave. For instance if your horse bites you and you give him a carrot he will not only continue to bite but when you dont give him a carrot he will bite more. If you have not dealt with horses which are doninant and misbehaved before, this could possibly turn out to be a bad situation. The most dangerous thing that a horse can do is rear and eventually flip if his rearing is not corrected. In experienced hands this issue will be fixed quickly but in inexperienced hands this horse could turn into a nightmare. And I have had several horses that came to me for training because they started like this and then they ended up being flippers. Good luck, stay safe and have fun!


Please separate your post using paragraphs. Big block post like this are hard to read so often times they get ignored. 

 I won’t even attempt to read it, because it will hurt my eyes.


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## slc (Jan 30, 2011)

I was able to read it; it's worth reading. 

Some computer equipment removes paragraphs and blank lines, and they aren't able to put them in.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

bwilliam777 said:


> ...No matter how advanced the training is it always is based on association and repetition. If the horse associates misbehavior with a correction and good behavior with an easy light handed wonderful rider they will soon figure out that good = pleasant and bad = not pleasant and being made to behave. For instance if your horse bites you and you give him a carrot he will not only continue to bite but when you dont give him a carrot he will bite more.
> 
> If you have not dealt with horses which are doninant and misbehaved before, this could possibly turn out to be a bad situation. The most dangerous thing that a horse can do is rear and eventually flip if his rearing is not corrected.
> 
> In experienced hands this issue will be fixed quickly but in inexperienced hands this horse could turn into a nightmare. And I have had several horses that came to me for training because they started like this and then they ended up being flippers. Good luck, stay safe and have fun!


I agree with most of your post. I just want to add that there are at least 2 categories of misbehavior - intentional and unintentional. When I'm riding my mare and signal a left turn, and she starts to turn right, she is testing me. If I fail to correct, she'll end up running the ride. If she turns her butt to me in the corral (2 times in 2.5 years), she knows what she is doing and needs immediate correction.

However, a lot of misbehavior by horses is unknowing, and rearing may fall into that category. As an example, about 1 1/2 years ago, my wife slipped while dismounting Trooper and fell under Trooper. Trooper didn't want that, so he jumped sideways. OK, but he then decided that the safest thing for him to do was to jump sideways on a dismount.

If I tried to discipline him for that, it would have been 'bullying' in his eyes, because he had no intent of doing wrong - in fact, he thought he was doing right. So we tried to ignore it, and gave him carrots during dismounting. Well, it is hard to eat a carrot and jump sideways, and after about 5-6 rounds he decided to stay still for the dismount...and after a few repetitions, he decided it was safe to stand still and problem solved.

A couple of days ago, my mare decided something was scary about a dismount and jumped sideways, so I got back on her and worked her a bit, then dismounted - and she jumped again. A few repetitions, and she became convinced that dismounts were really scary...and I caused that reaction in her by making an unintentional bad behavior a 'bad thing'.

So now I'm going to get to try to unlearn a 'bad behavior', where it probably would have gone away quickly on its own if I had ignored it. After all, jumping sideways is work and most horses don't like needless work. But because it was a big deal to me, I made it a big deal to her, and working it out may take several weeks plus the risk of injury. Great job on my part, huh! :-x

I don't know much about rearing, but the only time my sample of 3 horses I've owned in my life did it (and it was without a rider), it was because our smallest mare was frightened by the gelding. She reared and offered a fight because she had been pushed too far by him. If rearing involves a fear reaction, then the horse may not respond with a normal training "good is easy and bad is hard" approach.

I don't know, because I'm not a trainer, other than the sense that all of us are training our horse every time we meet them. From my very limited experience, ignoring unpleasant fear-based actions seems to work better than correcting it. However, if a horse's response to fear is to rear, then training it out may not be completely possible. It may go dormant because the source of fear has been dealt with rather than the behavior itself, and pop up again when the horse encounters a different fear with a different rider. 

If so, that would make a rearing horse a very difficult project horse problem. It could be one of those things each rider would have to solve as an individual with that horse, which would make the horse dangerous for many potential buyers.


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

bsms said:


> A couple of days ago, my mare decided something was scary about a dismount and jumped sideways, so I got back on her and worked her a bit, then dismounted - and she jumped again. A few repetitions, and she became convinced that dismounts were really scary...and I caused that reaction in her by making an unintentional bad behavior a 'bad thing'.
> 
> So now I'm going to get to try to unlearn a 'bad behavior', where it probably would have gone away quickly on its own if I had ignored it. After all, jumping sideways is work and most horses don't like needless work. But because it was a big deal to me, I made it a big deal to her, and working it out may take several weeks plus the risk of injury. Great job on my part, huh! :-x
> .


Dismount her on the other side and be sure to bend her neck (lateral flexion) before you get off. And if you have a cookie in your pocket give it to her once she bends her neck. Now she's got a reason to hang around with you


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

I have retrained a few rearers but I am very careful not to grab at their mouths if they go up. Yes it can be tricky but I think working from the ground to establish forward movement first and then do a lot of approach/retreat surrounding the mounting would be a good strategy.


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks guys! I do think his behaviour is not an ingrained habit as its only happened once as far as I know. The rearing I actually am not that worried about as I wont be getting on him for a long while yet as he's going to have chance to settle in then it'll be groundwork and manners for ages before I even attempt to get on..

When I say project horse I mean that I want a horse either a youngster to break in or a horse that has issues that I can work him through to be MY horse! Im not buying him with the aim to fix it and sell him on. He's exactly what I want and im wanting him to become my 'forever' horse hopefully if you get me?

And yes to whoever asked-sorry so many posts since I last looked- iv broken in 2 horses myself and have taken on several difficult horses before. It seems to me like this guy has been passed from pillar to post and had no structure or discipline and thats why he is how is. The owner said that she can catch him fine if he's in a routine, its when they leave him for say a couple of days then try catch him that they have trouble but I can work on that. Apart from this its just the mounting issue as he's good to box/shoe etc and has good leading manners and temperment.

Il explain again why he reared-obviously the owner could be lying about it all but id have to have a look and a listen and decide if I believe she's genuine(thats my risk I suppose).
He had been over night and the boyfriend bought him out and tried to get on and he reared up and the boyfriend fell off. The boyfriend is a novice, lost his confidence and bought a cob and since then he has rarely been ridden


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## moorland (Nov 2, 2008)

it might be worth getting it's teath checked ,with my daughters ex race horse she reared on mounting ,that's why she was life long loaned or what ever it's called ,the vet said she had dealt with a few rearers that had bad teath ,mounting the start of a ride and ment pain ,she's is ok now but they restarted her ,and her teath are now done


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

moorland said:


> it might be worth getting it's teath checked


This is good advice and teeth can certainly cause all sorts of problems. I think you said he is young and if he's never had them checked out then there could be wolf teeth that are impacted or other things wrong. You know I would not start him with a bit, although I'm a little biased that way. I used to start them all with bits but now that I've started using just a rope halter I find it so much easier.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Excellent advice about the teeth.

We probably discussed this briefly before, but I would start him all over as an unbacked horse and really spend a lot of time in the stall, laying over him, bellying over, patting him all over. 

Also, you can't underestimate the importance of a good ground person, who understands how to position themselves and influence the horse without tense or nervous body language. Something as simple as a tense, rigid handler standing directly in front of the horse, holding on with a locked arm is enough to produce this behavior in a scared or unconfident horse. From the way you describe the current owners, it's not an unlikely scenario. 

I would also allow this guy to take a couple of steps or even walk around the stall at first when you're first working with him. I wouldn't demand that he stand perfectly still for mounting until much later on in his training, when his confidence and security is much higher. 

I got blasted once by a cowhorse person for allowing my horse to walk off while mounting. I understand the working cowhorse point of view, but after breaking a lot of babies, including lots for the track, it's a ingrained habit, and I do think it's easier on the horse.


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## currie17 (Feb 26, 2011)

It would probably be best to start from scratch and re-build his confidence. I find that green horses that are started too quickly tend to get a bad attitude, but this can be fixed with just a few months of proper riding and positive reinforcement.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

If it was a one time thing, I would not be concerned. I had my Arab mare rear ONCE on me in the 12 years I've had (since birth), and it was when she was 4 years old and a visiting couple to my grandpa's farm let their idiot dog out of the house and it came flying at her front end, barking viciously while I was riding. She reared and attempted to smash the dog with her front legs.

No it was not appropriate behavior, but she was young and all her instincts moved into place immediately to protect herself. I managed to stay on, immediately circled her, and jumped off to deal with the stupid dog. She's never reared since - heck, I thought it would be fun to teach her to rear because she's such a stable minded horse, and I couldn't! :lol:

I hate rearing, but there are plenty of horse who display these behaviors for NO other reason then they have run out of ALL other options in their minds. Seeing how people mount, especially novices, I could easily see how this happened. I can't count how many times I've seen people almost pull a horse OFF their feet because of the death grip on the reins and their inability to do anything but hang like a sack of potatoes off the side and repeatedly kick the horse in the stomach trying to get on.

As a note, running your knuckles down hard on either side of the spine will produce a flinch in EVERY horse. You have to know what you're looking for - a comfortable horse will only slightly lower his back as you go down, a horse in pain will visibly hollow his back quite quickly once you hit a certain "spot" if it's pain. I've had vets check horses, and assumed they had a sore back, but the vets have said a slight response to the pressure is normal where a quicker "sucking down" action is your indication of pain.

Good luck! He's a lovely boy, it really sounds like he's just full of opinions and energy and locking him in a stable or pasture for days on end before letting novices on him was just one big recipe for disaster. Quite frankly, it sounds like he has a GREAT mind for what he's been put through!


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

For me personally, I would never choose to buy a horse that has a tendency to rear. Give me a hard bucker any day over one that goes up. I did take on a mare last year for some folks that was notorious for her rearing episodes. They brought her here and upon examination she had a scar completely across her tongue from rough handling at her start. We did work past it, started in a hackamore and gradually into a 3 pc myler snaffle. With very light hands she did work through it and found that not everyone was out to get her. It was a fear response for her. 

I would agree with majority of posts, get his back and mouth checked pronto. If your vet can't find anything, sounds like it was a one time case of bad saddle fit and inexperienced handling....


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