# roan vs grey?



## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

31.25% JACKIE BEE, TOP AND BOTTOM + TWO EYED JACK - GALLA CREEK 501
I bought a mare/foal from this breeder. This is the stallion she was bred to. He is reg as a blue roan, but to me he looks like he is graying? Please no negative critiques, he is not mine, just the sire of my stud colt.

The mare is a bay roan and the foal was advertised as red roan, but he has shedded off chestnut. My question is if he truly is red roan, shouldn't he already have shedded off roan? He is almost 4 months. If his sire is truly a gray, could he possible be gray as well, and what would I look for? I am absolutely clueless as to color and genetics. These are old pics, I will take new pics of him if more are needed.
BIG foundation bred mare & Red Roan colt 2 in 1 package! - CS KIOWA VALENTINE

Thanks for any info!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, that stud is definitely gray. Some roan horses really don't have much roan hair so your foal could be roan, just with a sprinkling of white instead of a full coat of it. Depending on the sire's genetics, the foal has either a 50% chance or a 100% chance of being gray. I am not certain about what to look for on a gray foal because I've never had one. There are others here that can give you a better idea of the indicators of a gray foal.

Either way, that's a nice looking mare and a cute foal.


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

Thanks smrobs! No matter the color...I love em both.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

That's a common trick of unscrupulous, dishonest breeders...pass of their "roany-looking" gray colts as real roans. I knew a breeder who had a blue roan stud and nothing but gray broodmares. Nearly every colt looked roan as a yearling, and was registered as such, but surprise! at least half ended up gray/white.

My computer monitor is acting up right now, so I'm having trouble seeing the colt's color accurately. I'm going to go ahead and throw out gray as a guess, but I could very well be far off.


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

I don't think the breeder was being dishonest with me. I saw the stud. She told me that everyone they talked to told them something different....he is blue roan, no he isn't he's grey:wink..I think they were confused as well and he was probably changing colors on them. I just looked at allbreedpedigree and he is now listed as grey. He had one grey parent and one roan parent. The mare had a bay roan and bay parent. 
I had a great experience with this breeder, and didn't want any negative reviews on them. :wink:


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

ioconner said:


> I don't think the breeder was being dishonest with me. I saw the stud. She told me that everyone they talked to told them something different....he is blue roan, no he isn't he's grey:wink..I think they were confused as well and he was probably changing colors on them. I just looked at allbreedpedigree and he is now listed as grey. He had one grey parent and one roan parent. The mare had a bay roan and bay parent.
> I had a great experience with this breeder, and didn't want any negative reviews on them. :wink:


You may not want any negative reviews, and your breeder may be perfectly honest, but as a former breeder myself, a breeder should know the colors, as well as everything else about his/her production, and not have to rely on the guesses of others. If he/she is uncertain they should have the foal tested before advertising it as a color it may not be - particularly when grey is concerned as many people like roans and not greys (and vice versa)...not criticizing your breeder, just stating what a good breeder should do...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yes, a breeder should be knowledgeable about the colors, but in their defense, I have seen a few grays that bore a striking resemblance to a blue roan. We had one in for training for a while that I would have sworn was blue roan had I not known his breeding and known that he was gray in advance. He didn't start showing _any_ gray on his face/head until he was almost 4. His head, legs, mane, and tail were all jet black with a roany looking body.

Because you said the stud has one gray and one non-gray parent, then he is heterozygous for gray. That means that your colt has a 50% chance of going gray.


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

I agree they should have known when he started changing...but like smrobs said he looked blue roan for so long before he changed. 
So a 50% chance of being a gray? So is it also a 50% chance of being red roan? What are the chances that he would stay chestnut? Like I said earlier, I really like this foal regardless of color, but would like to have an educated guess at what he will turn out to be. Thanks!


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

And here's another ? Since the stud was around 4 or so when he started graying, is that around the age that mine would as well if he were to gray?
This is confusing to me!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

The funny thing about the gray gene is that it effects every horse differently, even when they are related. Some horses gray out quickly and are almost white by the time they are 6 or 7, other horses gray out slowly with no gray showing until they are 2+ and they retain a darker/dappled gray color into their late teens or twenties.

According to the color calculator, these are your options. I entered the genetics as best I could with the information at hand. I did put that they stud was a gray with a blue roan base, I hope that's correct. If he wasn't a blue roan before he grayed, then it would change the colors and percentages. Do you know what color his roan parent was?

*Gray (Blue Roan) *14.06% - 
*Gray (Bay Roan)* 14.06% - 
*Blue Roan *14.06% -
*Bay Roan *14.06% -
*Gray (Chestnut Roan)* 9.38% -
*Chestnut Roan *9.38% -
*Gray (Black) *4.69% -
*Gray (Bay) *4.69% - 
*Black *4.69% -
*Bay*4.69% - 
*Gray (Chestnut) *3.13% -
*Chestnut *3.13% -


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

His parent was a red roan. 
Thanks smrobs!


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## jdw (Mar 17, 2011)

I owned a blue roan, and never realized how rare she apparently was. It reminds me of a heeler, when you brush their hair backwards you see their skin is actually blue/black. She was that way from birth on. The gray thing I am still trying to figure out (when they dont gray until they are older/shed out) so thanks, smrobs. Nice mare and foal!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Foal looks red to me, not grey. I think you either have a chestnut or a red roan. With the roan, sometimes it's not until their yearling or two year old shed that you can even tell. 

As for the sire... Definitely grey.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

First off, I am not a breeder and don't know a whole lot about genetics. My only qualification to even comment is that I had a foal last year out of my gray mare, and researched everything I could find about "gray" because I was also eager to know what color my colt was and if he would turn gray. (And he is!) 

Well, my guess is that your baby is not gray, based only on the fact that he has light points. Apparently most gray foals are born with dark legs. But, in the photo where he is the youngest, he almost looks black, so that sort of throws things off for me. :think:

But anyway, most gray foals have dark legs while most bay and chestnut foals have fawn colored legs. 

They also say to look for stray white hairs, even a single one, especially on the face and around the eyes. That didn't prove a good clue with my baby however, as I could not find a single white hair on him when he was born (outside his white markings of course). My baby started getting his first scattered white hairs with his winter coat. 

So take it with a grain of salt, because I honestly have no idea. But I'm guessing non-gray just based on the light colored legs.

PS. Here is Zane after he was born. He is a bay-going-gray. And the second photo is a "normal" bay foal.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

THR, I would guess that the picture of the very young foal that is dark is a different foal, likely as an ad pic for the mare.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

smrobs said:


> THR, I would guess that the picture of the very young foal that is dark is a different foal, likely as an ad pic for the mare.


That thought crossed my mind. But then the face markings look similar (from what I could tell at a side-angle on the dark foal). You are probably right though.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

My QH mare is Red Roan on her registeration certificate, but looking at her from a distance she looks like she is just a Red/Chestnut,because she has so few white hair thorough out her body. Of her 3 foals the first was sired by a Blood Bay TB and that colt/gelding was a Sorrel. Then in 2003 I had her live-covered by a Grey Cutting-Bred QH Stallion and again in 2004 for full sisters. The first filly took months and months to decide what color she wanted to be as did the 2nd filly. The second filly I did register as a red roan, because she was not grey at registeration time. That did get changed by her currrent owners in Texas. The third and last filly did grey-out in her first few months after being foaled.


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

Thanks for all the helpful replies! I haven't seen any stray white hairs either. I will post some current pics of him tonight after feeding time. He is such a character right now! 
The darker foal (almost black) was a blue roan colt out of my mare by another stud. She also had a red roan filly that looks so similar to my colt. I can post a pic of her too, but it looks like she shedded out roan at 4 months.


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

Here are just 2 pics of my boy. Sorry if the pics are huge and horrible! I'm not the best at computers:?


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

Oh and please....I know he needs his feet rasped. I was unable to catch the booger the day my farrier came out! I told you he was a character! And yes, he is very mad in these pictures....Learning to stand tied on a picket line


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## PecuniaMiAmor (Jul 17, 2011)

She may have not been dishonest if his base color was blue roan. Then he's just a blue roan going grey and some people don't realize or notice (or care). Like Dry Docs Blue Cowboy. He was blue roan but is now greying. 

Just like a black horse going grey. Used to be black but has the grey modifier..


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## ioconner (Apr 2, 2011)

I think that is exactly what was going on. He is blue roan based and graying out. All of his first two yrs of foals were either roan and a few solids, but he was bred to roan mares. My mare is bay roan, and the filly they had last yr is red roan. Classic red face and roan body. Gorgeous. My colt looks like her just not roaned. Either way...he's a mess!


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