# Perched my phone on a barrel today, how was my ride?



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Thanks for posting this! It's always cool to see other posters here riding!

I did a quick skimming-through but will watch in more detail later. You look like a nice pair, and you look very comfortable together.

One thing that stood out immediately: yep, you're nagging with your legs, a bit in walk but a lot in trot. (Doesn't look like you are in canter, though!) There are times were you're squeezing and bumping and pumping every single stride. I see you don't carry a whip. Something to reconsider?? If your horse is getting bumped every stride, whether or not he's going the speed you want, he has zero incentive to actual maintain a gait, and will start to tune your legs out completely. To get over the nagging, and to get them lighter off your leg, you need a big GO followed by... absolutely nothing, so there's a release for actually going. I was riding a not-at-all forward horse for five months last year, and the best thing for him was to get REALLY REALLY big and firm (but quick!) with the forward asks early in the ride... and once he would do a decent trot, just take my legs off completely, loosen the reins completely, and ask absolutely nothing of him as long as he would GO. Good lightness training for him, and for me! Once he started getting the message I could take up contact again and work normally, but we did a bit of that every ride, all the same.

I think maybe in trot, the squeezing and bumping has become a habit as part of posting the trot? Like, it's just become automatic in a certain part of your post?


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

SteadyOn said:


> Thanks for posting this! It's always cool to see other posters here riding!
> 
> I did a quick skimming-through but will watch in more detail later. You look like a nice pair, and you look very comfortable together.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I definitely need to employ my whip aid at the walk since he's prone to getting behind my leg. I did carry one initially and dropped it halfway through my ride since I didn't feel I needed it anymore. 
I feel like I'm not trying to bump him when I'm posting, I think I just don't have good control of my lower legs at the rising trot. I don't seem to do it when I sit the trot. I should probably post without stirrups more, but he takes advantage of me not having stirrups and tends to dive into the middle of the ring or spin.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think your best gait is the canter. Not many get told that, I assure you.


I thought you sat up nicely at the canter, and had a steady non-gripping nor nagging leg. Well done.


I agree that the trot shows some problems.
I could see at the walk that you sit with a bit more roll in your lower back than you would want. That puts you in a place were you are falling forward a little bit. You end up rising more than neccessary and having to use the swing in your lower leg to offset that motion. It is almost as if there is a slight uphill cant to your saddle, and it's putting you the tiniest bit behind the motion. Of course, if your darling horse is not giving much impulsion, that only makes it harder to post well.


I wonder how it would feel if you shortened your stirrups one notch, took out some of the arch in your lower back and tried really hard to keep your thumbs on top, and your elbow soft. Don't let that 'keep your chest up' translate into puffing it out, becuase that creates the curl in the lower back. Think more of raising YOUR poll (which would be where your neck joins your shoulders) upward, and dropping your elbows downward.


is there a reason you did not put the horse on the bit? He seemed willing to do that for you.


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> I think your best gait is the canter. Not many get told that, I assure you.
> 
> 
> I thought you sat up nicely at the canter, and had a steady non-gripping nor nagging leg. Well done.
> ...


I will take that as a compliment I think, since I know my trot work is a trainwreck. Last year I was far too braced in the canter and couldn't sit to it.

I have a bad habit of over-posting the trot, it started when I was trying to get him to move out from a western pleasure style jog, I never got out of the habit. I think its better when I'm consciously thinking about letting his movement push me up out of the saddle and bringing myself back down softly. He doesn't offer a lot of thrust like a fancy moving warmblood. I remember one glorious ride I had with him, it was windy and he was really "up", he was trotting with his neck arched and back up, snorting like a dragon. I felt like I was riding an entirely different horse, the power he was producing was amazing. I've never been able to reproduce it with him much to my dismay. I suppose I could try agitating him into it, but it doesn't seem fair at all to my sweet boy. 

My saddle might be a touch too narrow, its got a genesis tree system and I've been messing with it a bit to try and get it just right, I'll adjust and reassess. 

I just dropped my stirrups down a hole since I had been feeling decently stable. I was thinking that I should perhaps bring them back up again. I always think I'm doing well with my hands till I see myself on video. I might hold my whip horizontally across my thumbs to create muscle memory. 

Last year I had been told I was riding too much with my hands and creating a false outline. I had been reading that feather light contact and letting the horse come to the bit on their own. He will go onto it with slightly heavier contact and a single half halt with the outside rein. I've been on the fence if I should be allowing him to find the contact and reach for the bit on his own, or if I should be creating it and then allowing him to stretch when he wants.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Canter right looked great at the beginning, then suddenly you appeared to pull his head up...not sure if that is what I saw because of the distance. 

Your position could use some tweaking. First just sit in the saddle relaxed, feet out of stirrups.Then take hold of the front of the saddle and pull your pelvis forward and deep, so your thighs hang nearly straight down. Then put your feet in the stirrups, without changing your thighs, and slide your heel under your hips. 

Next, lift your shoulders straight up, then relax them while rolling them back and down. (your shoulders are not bad, btw)

This is the correct position to be in. 

Try to not wag your whole leg when posting, lower leg should be still, it is only to que not to rock. 

So, your horse is cute, and seems to be an honest sort. He is trying to do as you ask, and offers to go deep and round, but you seem to pull his head back up, not sure why? When he offers to stretch down, give a bit with the inside hand and reward with a "good boy". 

Overall, your hands were good, the horse is willing but put in awkward position. 

The walk to canter transition was not bad, but you are startling him, as opposed to just stepping into canter. This is from the lack of a good half-halt, which should proceed any change of gait. 

But, I see a ton of potential in you both. The horse has three good gaits, and you seem to be very much in touch with him. 

Are you working with an instructor?


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Just saw canter work near end...did you mean to try counter canter? Or were you wanting to change? 

Counter canter needs to be on the same bend as if circling in the correct direction. Will need to have the correct bend before doing counter canter or shoulder in. 

For changes, at your level, would suggest simple changes with trot for 4 strides.


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

AnitaAnne said:


> Canter right looked great at the beginning, then suddenly you appeared to pull his head up...not sure if that is what I saw because of the distance.
> 
> Your position could use some tweaking. First just sit in the saddle relaxed, feet out of stirrups.Then take hold of the front of the saddle and pull your pelvis forward and deep, so your thighs hang nearly straight down. Then put your feet in the stirrups, without changing your thighs, and slide your heel under your hips.
> 
> ...


I think what you were seeing was me trying to pick up his inside shoulder at the canter, he gets nice and deep, but will get heavy and dive into the circle, or at least thats what it feels like while sitting on him. I like letting him stretch, but we were going through a phase of him rooting and then throwing his head back up to avoid the contact altogether, so I'm trying to maintain a neutral carriage. 

I've been trying to sit on my seat bones, it feels unnatural but thats what one of my friends at the barn (who's more experienced) says I should do. I feel much more natural more rocked forward more onto my pubic bone, but it causes me to tip forward. Which is correct?

He's a very good boy with a fantastic work ethic, he's a bit on the anxious side, so I'm often combating that. I will try half halting before asking for the canter. For a while it seemed like the half halt confused him and made him anxious, like I was telling him stop then go too quickly. No matter how I cue for canter I seem to startle him, I usually say the word canter and will bump him a couple times with my legs to create energy a few strides before cueing for the canter so he's more prepared, but I still get a similar transition. 

I work with an instructor as often as I can, which is not nearly as often as I like.


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

AnitaAnne said:


> Just saw canter work near end...did you mean to try counter canter? Or were you wanting to change?
> 
> Counter canter needs to be on the same bend as if circling in the correct direction. Will need to have the correct bend before doing counter canter or shoulder in.
> 
> For changes, at your level, would suggest simple changes with trot for 4 strides.


Yes the counter canter is intentional, he has no idea how to do a flying change. It seems to really loosen him up and get him feeling good. I've been trying not to interfere with his face too much to create bend or a frame, but he is certainly capable of bending while in the counter canter.

I've all but abandoned the idea of getting a flying change, I'm coming up on 8 years of owning him and gotten maybe 4 ever. I don't practice simple changes all that often either, he gets anxious and runs through my hands and its honestly a trainwreck.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

SKB1994 said:


> I've been trying to sit on my seat bones, it feels unnatural but thats what one of my friends at the barn (who's more experienced) says I should do. I feel much more natural more rocked forward more onto my pubic bone, but it causes me to tip forward. Which is correct?


The image at the far right shows the correct seat position for dressage. Check out how totally different all the angles become! It's pretty cool.

I find it helpful to not think so much of sitting on my seatbones, but of using my lower abs to lift the front of my pelvis. You also want your lower back fairly flat -- which will happen with your abs engaged and the font of your pelvis lifted.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

SKB1994 said:


> I feel like I'm not trying to bump him when I'm posting, I think I just don't have good control of my lower legs at the rising trot. I don't seem to do it when I sit the trot. I should probably post without stirrups more, but he takes advantage of me not having stirrups and tends to dive into the middle of the ring or spin.


Looking again, I think part of what's happening is that you're riding off the back of your lower leg instead of the backs of your thighs and the inside of your calves, in trot. This happens because of a chain of events:

Tight hips + rolling forward onto the pubic bone = knees and toes turn out
With the toes turned out, the strongest part of the leg -- and the part most available to you to use -- is the back of the lower leg.
With the pelvis rolling forward, your abs aren't engaged and aren't helping you the way they should in rising, and the back of your thighs aren't as available to you either.
So instead of getting the lift from your abs and the backs (not the insides, but the backs!) of your thighs, your using the back of your lower legs to squeeze in and thrust you up for the rise.

You can fix a LOT of this with no stirrups work. If you're worried about him spinning or losing his steering... just don't steer him. Let him go wherever as long as he's trotting. Get a grab strap for your saddle, or grab the pommel. One-hand the reins, and with the hand that's hanging on to the strap or pommel, work on pulling yourself into the saddle while keeping the front of your pelvis lifted, your thighs down and back, and everything below the knee completely loose and floppy. Carry a whip so you don't have to keep asking with your (relaxed!!!) lower leg.

(I've been through ALL of this and it's something I have to check in on with myself a lot!! My hips tighten and I start to slide back into fork seat if I don't do this regularly.)


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

SteadyOn said:


> The image at the far right shows the correct seat position for dressage. Check out how totally different all the angles become! It's pretty cool.
> 
> I find it helpful to not think so much of sitting on my seatbones, but of using my lower abs to lift the front of my pelvis. You also want your lower back fairly flat -- which will happen with your abs engaged and the font of your pelvis lifted.


Would you consider me in upright seat currently then? 

Should I be going through this step by step? Or trying to change directly to the final and correct position? I know dressage is based on building blocks and I don’t want to skip steps.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

SKB1994 said:


> Would you consider me in upright seat currently then?
> 
> Should I be going through this step by step? Or trying to change directly to the final and correct position? I know dressage is based on building blocks and I don’t want to skip steps.


Hmmm. I think maybe do whichever way feels right for you? Personally I think I'd be aiming for the final image, but take the other ones as signs of progress if they _do_ happen, rather than worrying that you still don't have it all nailed down!


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

SteadyOn said:


> Looking again, I think part of what's happening is that you're riding off the back of your lower leg instead of the backs of your thighs and the inside of your calves, in trot. This happens because of a chain of events:
> 
> Tight hips + rolling forward onto the pubic bone = knees and toes turn out
> With the toes turned out, the strongest part of the leg -- and the part most available to you to use -- is the back of the lower leg.
> ...


Thank you for this explanation! I do struggle with tight hips, especially my right one, and often I need to “pop” it in order to get it loose enough to ride.

I’m hesitant to use a whip aid without stirrups, since he reacts very dramatically to it and has been known to bolt, spin, or leap. However he goes very well off of voice, and I don’t think I need a massive forward trot at the beginning of correcting my position? 

Should I be trying to keep him on the bit while doing this? As we can see from the video he is happy to go around with his head up, which makes keeping a good position dramatically harder. I’ve been lunged without stirrups on him before with very loose side reins which I think helped a lot in giving him something to focus on (as opposed to spinning and running out) and having his back raised made it significantly easier on both of us. He is very soft and really only needs a slight suggestion to go onto the bit, but it would be unfair of me to be trying to manage having independent hands and seat at the same time. Would using side reins be totally inappropriate for stirrupless work? I want to be fair to him and not pull on his face, but also I’m not trying to eat dirt.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I've never heard anyone say to post off the rear of your thighs. H m m . . . I shall have to try posting and see how that feels.


----------



## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I like your horse, he seems like a nice willing fella and you look good together.

there are others on here that have good advice, and know more than I do but I didn't see the whole tape just checked different spots and as far as the trot, I thought you are trying too hard and posting a little higher than you need. Is he rough at the trot?
I would not try to rise at the post but just relax my legs and hips and let the horse lift me up with his forward motion and see how that goes. If it feels uncomfortable maybe hang on to the pommel or get a strap (I have a strap on my saddle) so you can sit more balanced until you get the feel of his rhythm.

Keep up the good work with your lovely guy


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

Woodhaven said:


> I like your horse, he seems like a nice willing fella and you look good together.
> 
> there are others on here that have good advice, and know more than I do but I didn't see the whole tape just checked different spots and as far as the trot, I thought you are trying too hard and posting a little higher than you need. Is he rough at the trot?
> I would not try to rise at the post but just relax my legs and hips and let the horse lift me up with his forward motion and see how that goes. If it feels uncomfortable maybe hang on to the pommel or get a strap (I have a strap on my saddle) so you can sit more balanced until you get the feel of his rhythm.
> ...


I think it’s a bad habit posting too high. He’s pretty short strided (and just short at 14.3) so his gait is choppier than most horses. He’s definitely a more of back mover as opposed to a leg mover, so each stride creates a lot of motion. I do have a strap, not that I ever use it, when he acts silly I’m more inclined to grab mane. 

I sometimes worry that I’m too tall for him, I have a longish torso and shorter legs, so I feel like we look odd at times. But he carries me easily which is more important than height alone.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Your size is fine, no worries. 

You are sitting incorrectly, if you get into the position as I described, you will be sitting like the figure on the far right. You are currently sitting like the far left; back arched, sitting on the pelvic bones and leaning forward. This is not correct. You should be sitting straighter. 

Posting is not up and forward; it is pelvis towards hands without moving shoulders. Low to the saddle.


I do not see much that you say is happening, especially with the horse going too fast. He is moving nicely, if a bit too slow at times. 


Hands must be independent; the outside hand controls the impulsion, the inside hand controls the bend. 


If the horse is not on the bit and rounded, it is not counter canter it is just cantering on the wrong lead. Counter canter is an exercise that leads to true straightness. 


You should not need to "bump" the horse a few times before transition to canter. The transition needs to be smooth and think of stepping into canter. I use mainly my seat to lift the horse up into canter. It is really hard for me to explain, but the half halt is used for every transition. It means "prepare" so half halt/slide outside lower leg back, and use outside seat bone to lift into canter. 

I think you are getting ahead of where the horse is in his training. First the horse needs to be freely moving forward. He does this ok, but I am picking up on a tenseness and worry in him. He looks worried and tense instead of forward and focused. 


The horse needs to be solid on the outside rein for lateral work. 


He seems most relaxed in canter, so I would use more canter to warm up instead of trot. Canter should be a nice bouncy, movement, not flat or fast. 


Changes in speed within the gait would be a good exercise for you both. This can help you to control his speed and is a good way to develop engagement. 

View some online videos of top riders, and study their position and legs aids. Keep in mind most upper level competitors will be on big moving horses.


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

AnitaAnne said:


> Your size is fine, no worries.
> 
> You are sitting incorrectly, if you get into the position as I described, you will be sitting like the figure on the far right. You are currently sitting like the far left; back arched, sitting on the pelvic bones and leaning forward. This is not correct. You should be sitting straighter.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this feedback! I will absolutely keep this in mind for correct counter canter. And I look forward to using the exercises you mentioned. He is a very very anxious horse, but does hide it well until it becomes all too much and he explodes. I am confident that this will improve as my riding improves under saddle. On the ground he is similarly anxious with daily handling due to herd boundness. It was windy and the horses outside were calling him. But this video shows him being far far quieter than he normally is. This was an exceptionally good day for him during the video. 

He is going nicely, if not too slow, since I have my reins and stirrups. I will try and get a video of what he does if I lose either of those. He's quite a wiggly guy despite what the video shows, and does not stick to the rail or at a regular pace without some guidance (albeit little is needed). The trainer I work with is very surprised by the difference between me riding him (I've owned him nearly 8 years and know him like the back of my hand) vs another rider of similar skill level to me, as other riders cannot keep him straight. 

In this particular arena when I am not steering but tracking left when we get to the area where the red box is (seen in the back left corner) he will always make a 135º turn and quickly beeline for the arena doors that are not in the frame but at the top right of the arena. He has a very strong draw to the doors, so without steering he will always beeline for the door and try to stop there. When I have my reins he will want to go to the doors but with just a feel of the outside rein will continue on the rail (which is imperceptible unless you're sitting on him). He's also prone to ignoring my left leg, so without stirrups to help me brace against him will still beeline for the door. I will do my best to get video of it for everyone.

I see that I've substituted the half halt with bumping as a "hey pay attention" before sliding my outside leg back to cue for the canter. He is good with the outside rein tracking right. Tracking left he would rather counter bend (as opposed to correct bend) and I struggle getting him on the left rein. 

I can't even see most leg aids on upper level riders. I know they are supposed to be very subtle, so I'm thinking my eyes are also untrained to look for that level of subtlety.


----------



## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

Agreed that a more correct seat --think ears, shoulders,mid hip and back of heels in line if someone held a stick up beside you,,will help you overall. A correct seat isn't easy for a lot of us, it takes lots of practice and having someone else watching is very very helpful as it's difficult for the rider, who 'feel's like' they are correct when they're not. Ask me how I know.....For me, I felt like I was leaned too far back--recliner style, but my instructor said THAT was straight....obviously leaning a bit forward felt straight to me. I think if your shoulders were a bit more back, your seat would stay in the saddle at canter, I think I could see you coming up a bit with each stride. 

As to the lower leg at the posting trot....agreed that a more correct seat will help but I wonder if you are pushing from your feet to rise to the trot....? that will cause the foot to push out with every post, which is what it looked like to me. As said, you want quiet and still lower legs unless you are actively cue-ing. Let the horse's impulsion start the lift out of the saddle and you only need to add a tiny bit of effort and hold yourself , then softly go back down. Think of your knees as the hinges that your upper body is moving from, but don't let that cause you to squeeze or push with/from your knees. Imagery helped me 'get' posting and keeping a quiet lower leg. You were in good timing with his trot, and on the correct diagonals,,good job changing diagonals as you were about to change direction each time. 

I also don't think any 'bumps' are needed to ask for canter....the exception would be a very unwilling horse, but that's not ideal. Outside leg slightly back, outside shoulder also very slightly back,look forward and think 'canter' to bring up the energy in your own body --he can feel your intention, , squeeze-don't bump' with both calves, maybe just a bit of heel pressure also, kissing cue or verbal 'can-ter', you know what it feels like when you are on a swing and just as you and the swing start the forward motion from the highest back position? think of that feeling in your core and seat as you ask. 

Hope some of that is helpful.

Stay safe. Have fun. Keep us updated on your progress.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

A 'bump' on the rein can be used as a 'reminder'. But, first of all NEVER bump with both reins. Second of all, make sure as soon as you have reminded the horse to pay attention, and he IS paying attention, you go immediately back to cueing with the absolute softest aid that will work.


Honestly, OP, you and your horse have a lot going for you. Changing your position to a more upright position (less curl in the lower back mainly), and keeping your hands up, will work themselves into a really nice independent seat. Don't worry too much. You have a lot of good things going on.


Try the stirrups up one notch. Try thinking more of your back of thighs. Try visualizing your Pubic bone coming up and forward, instead of your whole body coming up. try thinking of your elbows down. etc. ONE thing at a time.


I see a ton of potential, so consider that people who are WAY off base in their riding get little advice, because they are too much of beginners to be able to comprehend it. But, you are are not a beginner, and you are able to get the small things that we are trying to express in words, . . . things that really can only be felt. Don't feel discouraged. Feel encouraged! We like what we see.


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

mslady254 said:


> Agreed that a more correct seat --think ears, shoulders,mid hip and back of heels in line if someone held a stick up beside you,,will help you overall. A correct seat isn't easy for a lot of us, it takes lots of practice and having someone else watching is very very helpful as it's difficult for the rider, who 'feel's like' they are correct when they're not. Ask me how I know.....For me, I felt like I was leaned too far back--recliner style, but my instructor said THAT was straight....obviously leaning a bit forward felt straight to me. I think if your shoulders were a bit more back, your seat would stay in the saddle at canter, I think I could see you coming up a bit with each stride.
> 
> As to the lower leg at the posting trot....agreed that a more correct seat will help but I wonder if you are pushing from your feet to rise to the trot....? that will cause the foot to push out with every post, which is what it looked like to me. As said, you want quiet and still lower legs unless you are actively cue-ing. Let the horse's impulsion start the lift out of the saddle and you only need to add a tiny bit of effort and hold yourself , then softly go back down. Think of your knees as the hinges that your upper body is moving from, but don't let that cause you to squeeze or push with/from your knees. Imagery helped me 'get' posting and keeping a quiet lower leg. You were in good timing with his trot, and on the correct diagonals,,good job changing diagonals as you were about to change direction each time.
> 
> ...


Ah yes, the classic overcorrect to come to center balance! I felt at times I was leaning too far back today, but I doubt that was the case. From time to time I ride with a whip behind my back and in front of my elbows to help get my shoulders back, but it often becomes painful. I struggle with shoulders back without just tightening my back altogether. 

I do think I was posting off my feet too much. I did to a little posting without stirrups tonight and found them to be in the way and feeling slightly too short when I picked them up again.

I use the bumping with my calves as a pre cue. As we can see in the video he doesn't have the most forward marching walk, so I try to generate a little extra energy before cueing for the canter. I was happy to see that when I tried "rolling" him into the canter with my hips that I didn't look like I was thrusting too much.


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> A 'bump' on the rein can be used as a 'reminder'. But, first of all NEVER bump with both reins. Second of all, make sure as soon as you have reminded the horse to pay attention, and he IS paying attention, you go immediately back to cueing with the absolute softest aid that will work.
> 
> 
> Honestly, OP, you and your horse have a lot going for you. Changing your position to a more upright position (less curl in the lower back mainly), and keeping your hands up, will work themselves into a really nice independent seat. Don't worry too much. You have a lot of good things going on.
> ...


I bump with my legs as the pre cue, I try not to bump his mouth when I can avoid it. I'm sucking up all the encouragement and advice I can and I'm trying my best to put it to good use. I feel I got a way more positive reception than the video I posted last year, so I feel I'm improving a lot. I feel very energized by this post and all the advice I've received. 

I did bring the stirrups up one notch. I posted a couple laps without stirrups, he only acted up once the whole time, I'm very proud of him for that. I found that my stirrups felt too short when I picked them up again, which I think was a good thing. At one point while posting without he tried ducking out from under me, I caught my left foot on the stirrup that I left hanging and almost pushed myself off the other side with it. :rofl:

I rode off the back of my thighs, it felt a little odd, but also it seemed to put me using the back of my calves more Or maybe they just had more contact surface since I definitely felt more aware of them. But my knees only bend in one direction, which I find inconvenient for the purpose of the exercise. It also pushed my pubic bone back off the saddle, and was really a game changer! My one issue was that it began hurting my left knee where it would normally rest on the saddle. My left hip is the more flexible one, so I think I maybe overcorrected with that leg which was causing the pain.


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

AnitaAnne said:


> Your size is fine, no worries.
> 
> You are sitting incorrectly, if you get into the position as I described, you will be sitting like the figure on the far right. You are currently sitting like the far left; back arched, sitting on the pelvic bones and leaning forward. This is not correct. You should be sitting straighter.
> 
> ...


I found another hole in the training! You mentioned being on the outside rein, so I'm responding again. Hope you don't mind.

So tracking right we have a good inside bend and he fills up my outside (being the left) rein at all gaits. However tracking left when I try putting him on the bit he becomes stiff and his nose comes up. I ask for inside bend with my left hand and he raises his head and braces his neck against it. He wants very much to cut into the center of the ring, so I try putting on my inside (left) leg and yielding him back to the wall hoping he will fill up the outside (right) rein and come onto the bit.

Someone once suggested lifting my inside rein and opening laterally with my outside rein to try and bring him onto the outside rein. It only creates more stiffness and resistance. I try turning in tight circles, and I will get lateral flexion without him coming onto the outside rein. 

I've noticed walking on a lose rein he wants to carry his head to the right and bring his hips to the inside track. He is happy to yield off my left leg as long as I'm not trying to maintain an inside bend. At the halt he is happy to do his carrot stretches and yield laterally at the poll. He seems to think he cannot move forward with his neck bent to the left.

He will adopt an inside bend tracking left only at the canter. However he still will not work fully onto the outside rein. The walk and trot are a physical battle to get him onto the outside rein, but only to the left. I can get him onto the bit vertically, but without bend or being on the outside rein. 

He has no known physical reason for why this would be uncomfortable. He is up to date on all vetting, shoeing, and gets regular body work. 

What else can I try to get him back onto the outside rein?


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It sounds like he is tight on his right side. He could also be tight or 'out' in his poll, in the area of the cervical vertebra that are responsible for the 'swivel' of the head; as if he were saying "no, no' with his head.


Sometimes when people stretch the horse's neck, doing so-called 'flexions', the horse is actually unable to bend at the poll. So, the horse will roll his head over to one side, (his long face will tilt to one side so that his ears point one way, and his chin the other), then he can bend WAY around using his neck vertebra to bend. His poll doesn't flex, and as it stays locked, this can affect his ability to unlock his hind end, too. 



Don't ask me to explain why this is so, but it is. Horses that are locked , horizontally, in the joint just behind the first joint (the up/down one) are usually stiff in the hind end, too. They find it hard to reach under with the inside hind leg in small circles and disengagements.


you may consider having him looked at by a chiro body worker. In the video I could see his prefernce for going to the right, but it doesnt appear to be severe.


here's one article you might enjoy:


https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/he...-and-relieving-tightness-in-horses-poll-30187


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

another article, showing the difference between commonly taught 'flexions' and correct poll flexion.


I am not saying, by the way, that you ARE doing the whole yoinking your horse's head around to one side thing.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

SKB1994 said:


> I posted a couple laps without stirrups, he only acted up once the whole time, I'm very proud of him for that. I found that my stirrups felt too short when I picked them up again, which I think was a good thing. At one point while posting without he tried ducking out from under me, I caught my left foot on the stirrup that I left hanging and almost pushed myself off the other side with it. :rofl:
> 
> I rode off the back of my thighs, it felt a little odd, but also it seemed to put me using the back of my calves more Or maybe they just had more contact surface since I definitely felt more aware of them. But my knees only bend in one direction, which I find inconvenient for the purpose of the exercise. It also pushed my pubic bone back off the saddle, and was really a game changer! My one issue was that it began hurting my left knee where it would normally rest on the saddle. My left hip is the more flexible one, so I think I maybe overcorrected with that leg which was causing the pain.


Awesome!! 

Yeah, that could very well be, with the hip. Watch that you don't overdo everything trying to fix your seat. Short amounts of getting it "right," and gradually building up how long you can sustain it, will help you more than pushing yourself to where things start to hurt and fall apart. I tried to fix my knee and lower leg position "all at once" last summer and twisted my left knee in the process. It's still a little... crunchy... at times. 

One visual that I find helps with keeping the abs engaged and lifting the pubic bone: imagine that you need to do up your fly, but your hands can't move so you have to move your fly towards your hands, haha. Obviously not all the way TO your hands, but it does engage the right muscles!

Also, don't beat yourself up (though it doesn't sound like you are, which is good!) I've posted this on this forum before, but to give an idea, here's how much my seat and leg changed over the space of three and a half years. (I'd had a 16 year break from riding before starting it up again in mid-2015.) Always a work in progress! (On a good day I can get it together enough to ride like the fourth image in the seat progression illustration. Still working on getting to five!)


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> It sounds like he is tight on his right side. He could also be tight or 'out' in his poll, in the area of the cervical vertebra that are responsible for the 'swivel' of the head; as if he were saying "no, no' with his head.
> 
> 
> Sometimes when people stretch the horse's neck, doing so-called 'flexions', the horse is actually unable to bend at the poll. So, the horse will roll his head over to one side, (his long face will tilt to one side so that his ears point one way, and his chin the other), then he can bend WAY around using his neck vertebra to bend. His poll doesn't flex, and as it stays locked, this can affect his ability to unlock his hind end, too.
> ...


Thank you! I will check his poll. He was adjusted by Chiro less than a month ago and had a good crack in his neck. 

I first noticed this issue several years ago, its been pretty consistent stiffness tracking left but with varying degrees. I can't say I notice any difference after bodyworking, but perhaps its time for radiographs or further evaluation by the vet.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

SKB1994 said:


> I found another hole in the training! You mentioned being on the outside rein, so I'm responding again. Hope you don't mind.
> 
> So tracking right we have a good inside bend and he fills up my outside (being the left) rein at all gaits. However tracking left when I try putting him on the bit he becomes stiff and his nose comes up. I ask for inside bend with my left hand and he raises his head and braces his neck against it. He wants very much to cut into the center of the ring, so I try putting on my inside (left) leg and yielding him back to the wall hoping he will fill up the outside (right) rein and come onto the bit.
> 
> ...


First of all, I am really happy to know you are grasping what I am advising! Sometimes I wonder if I am not being clear enough, or if the listener just doesn't have enough knowledge to understand. 

A lot of riding is feel, and that is so hard to explain!! I wish I could be there in person to guide you, because I do believe you have a ton of potential, and the horse does too! 

When you are sitting, look down at your thigh, it should appear almost straight down, pointing to the ground. Your lower legs will be behind the knee. Some people, especially women with larger upper thighs, have to grasp the inner upper thigh and pull it outward with their hand to have the thigh lay correctly on the saddle. 

So to clarify more. Horses are always better to one side or the other; mine are always better to the right, and as I am a bit crooked, I know why LOL. 

So, one must practice the weak side twice as much as the good, until the weak side is stronger. 

I advised you to do more warm up at canter, because that is his best gait. Traditionally, one is told to warm up at trot, but that is not always right for every horse. 

When I talk of straightness, it is the Dressage term of traveling straight up in the body, even on turns when there is a bend in the body. Compare to a barrel horse, that tilts inward on turns. I also do not mean traveling in a straight line, as opposed to a weaving type issue...


So a key component of straightness, is to be even in the hands. I will tell you a secret, most horses are not even in the hands, but we work and work and strive for that, and 99% of us have to alter the pressure in the hands to compensate for the weakness. 


So, back to basics for a minute...hotter horse are IMO, a bit easier to ride because one has to just direct the horses body as the forward is there. 


To get a good marching walk, one slides the legs (from the knee please) in time with the walk to encourage longer strides. While allowing the horse to stretch for the bit. 


For trot, use both seat bones to lift into the gait. 

Already described canter aid in earlier post. 

To get the horse on the outside rein, and develop evenness in the hands:

When his nose goes up, both legs at girth and open the hands apart while maintaining the feel. (I saw some of this in the video) Important to release the inside rein slightly (give) as an "atta boy" when he drops his head even slightly. Think baby steps...the rider must teach what the cues mean, not force the head down. 


When on the circle (at any gait) one wants to squeeze-squeeze-squeeze with the inside rein and then relax it. Hold outside rein. Use inside leg at girth, outside leg slightly behind girth to control the bend. 


The goal here is to have the horse maintain its frame when the inside rein is loose. So keep asking, by the above method. If he starts to tilt head outward, pick back up inner rein and squeeze again. Once he "gets it" go long over the full arena as a break.


----------



## SKB1994 (Sep 28, 2014)

SteadyOn said:


> Awesome!!
> 
> Yeah, that could very well be, with the hip. Watch that you don't overdo everything trying to fix your seat. Short amounts of getting it "right," and gradually building up how long you can sustain it, will help you more than pushing yourself to where things start to hurt and fall apart. I tried to fix my knee and lower leg position "all at once" last summer and twisted my left knee in the process. It's still a little... crunchy... at times.
> 
> ...


Thats an awesome transformation! Good for you. I hope I'll look like that soon!


----------



## 3Horses2DogsandaCat (Apr 19, 2016)

AnitaAnne said:


> Some people, especially women with larger upper thighs, have to grasp the inner upper thigh and pull it outward with their hand to have the thigh lay correctly on the saddle.





I've heard this advice before, and I always wonder if you pull the meaty-thigh outward towards the front of the thigh or the back? Thanks!


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

3Horses2DogsandaCat said:


> I've heard this advice before, and I always wonder if you pull the meaty-thigh outward towards the front of the thigh or the back? Thanks!


Towards the back, one wants the thigh to lay smoothly with the knee and toes pointing forward.


----------



## 3Horses2DogsandaCat (Apr 19, 2016)

Thank you! I thought that would make the most sense


----------

