# Is this safe?



## Fiyaero (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't think you should leave halters on your horses when they are turned out to pasture. There is a lot of danger in doing that.

Are they kicking in play? To reestablish herd order? Aggression?

If you are truly concerned about the horses' safety, you should separate them.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Fiyaero said:


> I don't think you should leave halters on your horses when they are turned out to pasture. There is a lot of danger in doing that.


I competely agree.


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## KcFinancialBurn (Aug 17, 2010)

Fiyaero said:


> I don't think you should leave halters on your horses when they are turned out to pasture. There is a lot of danger in doing that.
> 
> Are they kicking in play? To reestablish herd order? Aggression?
> 
> If you are truly concerned about the horses' safety, you should separate them.


 Completely agree! Two of my horses came from a house were they left their halter on. They still have marks from the halters 2 years later. Leaving halters on is just an accident waiting to happen. My opinion is take off the halters, while its early. It doesn't take that much effort to put a halter on.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Agreed. Too many things can go wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I agree that halters shouldn't be left on for a long time. However, when horses are being turned out for part of the day, which many stables do, they will leave them on.

As for the horses nipping and kicking at each other, I'm going to assume they are geldings since mares don't usually do this. They are just playing. Two of our boys nip at each other all the time and they are best buds. They really get into in when the weather gets nice and in the spring. We give them orange cones to play with and that has helped. There's a saying that fits here: " Boys will be boys."

If it is just at feeding to though, they are probably acting aggressive and trying to protect their food or get the others food. At that point, you should step in and correct their behavior.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I imagine they are just establishing hierarchy, but I would also take the halters off. It is too easy to get stuck on fences, trees, etc. I've heard of a horse get it's hoof stuck in it halter from bringing it's hind leg up to scratch their face like a dog does. She broke her neck. I don't mean to scare you, I just want you to see that it is a serious matter to leave halters on. The mare I mentioned was in her stall.

ETA: Mares also establish hierarchy, usandpets. You forget that wild herds do have an alpha mare.

I caution stepping in, though. There is no reason to get hurt. Maybe feed them further away from each, but unless these horses have superb respect for you, I wouldn't get in the middle of a horse fight any sooner than I'd get in the middle if a dog fight.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I disagree. I keep halters on both my horses. For the simple reason that they like to escape and are really hard to catch when they do get out. We don't have anything they can get hooked on. My gelding likes to bite and hold on to my mares halter.


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## Fiyaero (Dec 11, 2010)

Ray MacDonald said:


> I disagree. I keep halters on both my horses. For the simple reason that they like to escape and are really hard to catch when they do get out. We don't have anything they can get hooked on. My gelding likes to bite and hold on to my mares halter.


Well as far as safety goes, I think horses should not wear halters while turned out.

Not liking to be caught is a behavioral problem that is best prevented than addressed, before it becomes a habit.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Ray, did you not read my post? Horses have legs. They do have something to get stuck on.

If your horse is hard to catch, that is a gap in training. My mare was hard to catch at first too. I did not put a band-aid on the situation by leaving her halter on. I learned her real quick that running away from me wasn't fun. She politely puts her nose in her halter now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Ray MacDonald said:


> I disagree. I keep halters on both my horses. For the simple reason that *they like to escape and are really hard to catch when they do get out*. We don't have anything they can get hooked on. My gelding likes to bite and hold on to my mares halter.


I've seen a horse in a 12x12 stall get its halter hung up on a nail and almost hang itself so I doubt that you have nothing for your horses to get hung up on. Your horse can also get its foot through the halter and injur itself like a previous poster mentioned. Rather than leave the halters on as a safety precaution maybe you should teach them to be caught and/or put them inside a fence they can't get out of.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Ray MacDonald said:


> I disagree. I keep halters on both my horses. For the simple reason that they like to escape and are really hard to catch when they do get out. We don't have anything they can get hooked on. My gelding likes to bite and hold on to my mares halter.


They could get hung up on the fence they are escaping out of or a tree limb.


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## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

They could very well be playing; we have a 5-year-old Gelding who does that with the older Appaloosa gelding that's his "brother figure." If the ears are pinned it _could _be a sign that they're establishing the pecking order. 

I also agree that halters in the pasture are dangerous. But, then again, they're dangerous even when the horse is tied. My mare spooked because of a drain hose someone was carrying and pulled back, breaking her halter. When she did so, the clasp under her chin (that rests on her cheek) skinned part of her face. The result was over 30 stitches, two weeks off of working, and a lot of treatment for proud flesh.

Horses should always be monitored with a halter on, and not left to free-pasturing. At the livery we rotate the horses into a pen to eat; they're in here for about 10 minutes and someone is always in the back watching the stalls and pens to make sure that the horses don't get into some sort of mischief. 

If you've noticed, when horses play they don't "connect." Our playful geldings will buck up, kick out, and "bite" (just scraping each other with their teeth or lipping at one another), but it's never aggressive -- they don't hurt each other. And when it does hurt, the "victim" is often quite content in telling the "assailant" that it did hurt. Just today I watched my "elderly" gelding, Ben, playing with a younger gelding, Oreo. They "bit" at each other's faces, Oreo would rear up a little bit, and then they'd prance around and kick up a little bit. Then it was like "whatever," and they moved on. 

If they're turned out overnight I would make sure to especially take the halters off; as many people have said, they pose a danger to the animal's well-being, which is further founded by Creampuff's story. 

Personally, I would say that the most dangerous thing is the halter, not the behavior.


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## walkerfan (Oct 7, 2010)

No halters in the pasture. It is much too dangerous. Horses should be trained so they are easy to catch.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

There are three mares and two geldings where I keep my horses and they all nip and buck a little at eachother. It's just establishing the pecking order as someone else has said. But it's definately not just a gelding thing.

I used to leave a halter on one of mares but one day she got it caught on a piece of wood. She didn't get hurt but she ran around all night with a two foot piece of wood strapped to her face until we finally found her the next morning.


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## netty83 (Sep 21, 2010)

Since I can ever remember we have never taken halters off while out to graze. our horses have never had an accident or got caught due to their halters in 27 years. Each to their own way of doing things.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

netty83 said:


> Since I can ever remember we have never taken halters off while out to graze. our horses have never had an accident or got caught due to their halters in 27 years. Each to their own way of doing things.


But wouldn't one freak accident change your mind? I imagine most people who have horses who suffered a serious accident from wearing a halter also thought the same thing. And wouldn't you feel pretty bad if something _did_ happen? I wouldn't willingly put my horses at risk like that just because it has never happened before.

The mare I mentioned that broke her neck, she was stuck like that over night before morning feeder found her. And she was in a stall. God knows how long she was suffering. =\


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

If you're going to put them out to pasture with halters, make sure they have a breakable leather crownpiece that will break off if a hoof gets caught in it.


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## Xela (Jan 26, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> If you're going to put them out to pasture with halters, make sure they have a breakable leather crownpiece that will break off if a hoof gets caught in it.


 Huge Ditto... Even then I don't like putting halters on horses but at shows we have to have them on 24/7. I had a couple that I LOVED because the crownpiece wasn't super thick and was fairly easy to break....


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## netty83 (Sep 21, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> If you're going to put them out to pasture with halters, make sure they have a breakable leather crownpiece that will break off if a hoof gets caught in it.


sorry guys should have added my halters have a crownpiece!


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## Fiyaero (Dec 11, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> If you're going to put them out to pasture with halters, make sure they have a breakable leather crownpiece that will break off if a hoof gets caught in it.


Agreed...

But it doesn't make sense to me to purposely buy a weak halter... waste of money.

Horses prefer being naked and streaking across the grass anyway, right?


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

My horses aren't hard to catch in the pasture. They come right up to you. It's when they get out and are heading to the highway that I have a problem with. 

They are watched, they are not allowed to be outside unless someone (me or my dad) is home to put them out and watch them.

They also don't wear their halters in their stalls.

Mine are snug enough that their hooves can't get hooked. And there is nothing in their pasture, no trees or bushes. We have smooth wired fencing or electric fence.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I had a gelding come in with a hole in his face that needed stitches. No halter, just playing.
I will _sometimes_ leave halters on when inroducing new horses, even though they spend at least a month separated by a fence before the introductions. I have intervened in horse fights.
I only use well fitted leather halters.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

riccil0ve said:


> I imagine they are just establishing hierarchy, but I would also take the halters off. It is too easy to get stuck on fences, trees, etc. I've heard of a horse get it's hoof stuck in it halter from bringing it's hind leg up to scratch their face like a dog does. She broke her neck. I don't mean to scare you, I just want you to see that it is a serious matter to leave halters on. The mare I mentioned was in her stall.
> 
> ETA: Mares also establish hierarchy, usandpets. You forget that wild herds do have an alpha mare.
> 
> I caution stepping in, though. There is no reason to get hurt. Maybe feed them further away from each, but unless these horses have superb respect for you, I wouldn't get in the middle of a horse fight any sooner than I'd get in the middle if a dog fight.


 No I didn't forget that there's an alpha mare, but mares usually don't play. If it's establishing a hierarchy, they wouldn't be nipping at the halters. They would be biting at the neck, legs or sides but more likely kicking. They would likely leave serious marks. When playing, they may make contact but not really bad marks.
As for the stepping in, maybe I misunderstood what she meant. When we feed ours they are next to each other but in seperate stalls but close enough to make contact, such as biting. If she is feeding them in the pasture then I wouldn't step in. I would let them settle it on their own or seperate them at feeding time. I have fed our in the pasture by spreading out their bowls but I would have to 'protect' our youngest mare. The others would make her move away from her bowl and take her food. They learned that it's best not to challenge me though.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

That's not necessarily true though. My lead mare reminds my filly of her place with a look, pawing, and will sometimes lash out at her. Horses will aim for the face on occasion. It is also likely that that they aren't nipping the halters, it's just that the halter gets in the way. It is absurd to say that horses establishing the pecking order will only do XYZ, and horses playing will only do ABC.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

I have not ever left a halter on a horse in the pasture. If anyone ever witnessed the aftermath of a horse hung up by a halter you'd never leave one on a horse either. I don't know who the horse's owner was, but the horse was dead and there was a full circle of blood about 20 foot in diameter all around the horse. This may be a shock to read, but it may save another horse from the same end of life experience.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

We don't leave halters on our horses, but we will keep the fly masks on them in the summer time. As long as your horses have plenty of room to get away from each other if they want, and the food is spread out when you feed then they will probably be ok. They are going to play, fight, & get scratched up that is just what horses do.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

riccil0ve said:


> That's not necessarily true though. My lead mare reminds my filly of her place with a look, pawing, and will sometimes lash out at her. Horses will aim for the face on occasion. It is also likely that that they aren't nipping the halters, it's just that the halter gets in the way. It is absurd to say that horses establishing the pecking order will only do XYZ, and horses playing will only do ABC.


 What's not true? Mares don't play? They wouldn't be nipping at each others halters? They might go for the face and the halter gets in the way? If it's hierarchy like you say, there are the warning signs: ear pinning, the "look", and tail swishing. Also there's a difference between nipping and a decisive bite attack. 

No it's not really that absurd. It's not that hard to tell if they are playing or if they are really fighting. The problem is that we can't actually see it and we are speculating with what was said. You have your opinion and i'll keep mine that they are probably playing.


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

I will agree with the majority of people who posted, the horses are either playing or establishing dominance. 

Are these horses making contact when they kick? 
If one horse is particularly agressive to the other, I would separate them. My instructors yearling Hawkeye is a _very _submissive horse, and his herd-mates took advantage of that. Annie and Joey would bite him and made contact on several occasions. I was cleaning out the run in shed one day and Annie wanted a drink. Hawkeye was "in her way", so she kicked and nailed him right on his left hock. My instructor decided to move Hawkeye to the other pasture that day, and has much less trouble with new herd mate, Monty. 

If they aren't making contact, and they don't seem to be agressive (ear pinning, pawing, "intent to hurt" biting, tail swishing, etc.) I would leave them be. Horse play looks similar to fighting, but in reality, playing doesn't hurt either horse. Fighting is intended to hurt (usually just enough to say, "hey, I'm in charge, so do what I tell you". 

And I'll be another advocate to take the halters off. Unless your horses are so difficult to catch it takes you two hours to actually get the halter on the horse, don't leave it on. (If this is the case, there are _major_ training issues that need to be adressed.) 

The only time I've ever seen somebody leave halters on horses was when a new horse was being introduced to a herd. All of the horses had halters left on in case the newbie needed to be removed from the pasture. All the horses were supervised by myself and my instructor. The halters were removed before we left.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

What do you do when a horse has escaped their pasture? And are prancing around your lawn?


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## walkerfan (Oct 7, 2010)

My horse is trained to come to me - in or out of his fenced pasture...


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

Ray MacDonald said:


> What do you do when a horse has escaped their pasture? And are prancing around your lawn?


The horses have gotten out before. And the barn is in town, on a 40 mph street (where most people do 50mph), and there is a trailer park full of people who don't know the first thing about caring for a goldfish, let alone catching a horse. All they do is complain about the smell.
The longest one has been out was for 15 minutes.They have no problems being caught, even with no halters on. 

My instrucotor also uses a 2.5 acre pasture in the summer out in scenic nowhere. The people who own the property know how to catch horses, and are home 90% of the time. Again, the horses have no problem being caught. Heck, he didn't tie up his qurab mare half the time when she was out of the pasture, and she stood on the lawn with no problem.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Mine do... And if they get on to my highway, it is legally 80 mph but most people do 90 or 100. Mine don't like to caught when the escape their pasture....


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

_What do you do when a horse has escaped their pasture? And are prancing around your lawn? _
​I would say you need a better fence.

I've only had had horses escape on a couple of occasions. It was mainly my foal, when he was small, who would lay down and then roll through the fence. I have only lost ONE adult horse from an enclosure. He was sick and we put him in a neighbor's pasture so he would have more room to move around (because I don't have pasture, just pens) and they had a wire fence and he somehow got through it. Got all scraped up too. :-(

But I have never lost an adult horse out of my pens, and neither have my neighbors. 

If your horses are escaping all the time, it is the fence that is the problem.

Now loosing a horse on a trail ride, I HAVE done that a couple of times. :lol:


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Nope. Yesterday Ducky opened the gate latch. Prancing around in th snow. My mare broke her latch on her stall door and escaped. It's not my fence.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Nope. Yesterday Ducky opened the gate latch. Prancing around in th snow. My mare broke her latch on her stall door and escaped. It's not my fence.


I have a horse who can open a latch so I also put a chain around the gate. Problem solved. On the latch that broke, it needs to be stronger.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Nope. Yesterday Ducky opened the gate latch. Prancing around in th snow. My mare broke her latch on her stall door and escaped. It's not my fence.


Would you not consider the latch and gate to be part of the fence? Something needs to change if your horses are getting out.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

He only did that once and I did tie the gate to the post. And we did get a better latch


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I agree with the above. If your horses are constantly breaking out of their enclosures, you need better enclosures.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

Halters that are breakaway are safe, the facility that I work and board out does day turnout and we leave halters on because bringing in 50 horses everyday is much easier when you just have to clip a lead on. They have safety halters and they do break when they are stressed. The horses are able to get them off in play. The all nylon halters are NOT safe for all day turnout.

OP - at the stable I work at we have a group of 4 geldings who play with each others halters, they grab onto halters and play like a tug o' war with it, they will grab onto anything they can find, branch from a tree, each others blankets, a lead if its too close to the fence and reachable. They're just playing and they nip each other, buck at each other but I would say to probably seperate them if it is getting intense as it can become like a "stallion fight". If they are injuring each other it is safe to say you should probably seperate them. Another paddock we have of about 6 geldings also plays with halters and they run around, nipping, bucking, etc. Most of the time they don't make contact but they will rear, buck etc. 

Most of all - use your head! If it looks like its getting into an intense fight, they should be broken up. If it looks like theyre playing like little boys playing cowboys and indians it is probably safe. Use your own judgement and if you have a safety/breakaway halter it is safe to leave on. 

Again, we have 50+ horses and some days the halters get left on and they DO break. There is a reason they are called "breakaway" and "safety". Some of the stiffer leather doesn't break away as well(the cheaper all leather halters) but the supple leather halters break and the breakaways with the leather tab by the buckle break well. My horse got his halter stuck on a fence(itching on it) and the thing broke in 3 places. My horse didn't even have a scratch on him. I generally take my personal horses halters off because they play an break them!


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Smrobs is usually the one that points this out, but seeing as she's not here, I will say it; the problem with breakaway halters are that it teaches a horse that they can break their halters. "Hmm, I don't want to stand at this tie post anymore," *sits on haunches and breaks halter* Granted, not every horse will learn this, but enough do that it causes problems. Then you have to teach the horse to tie all over again, in a halter that won't break.

As far as the 50 turned out horses, the solution is really very simple; get halters with a throatlatch buckle, and slip halters on over their ears like you would a bridle. You don't even have to buckle the throatlatch on your averagely trained horse. Seems simpler than fiddling with dozens of lead ropes to me.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Not only they could learn that if they pull hard enough the halter is gone. You could end up with a horse that has become head shy and panic every time there is any pressure on their poll.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

I lead horses with a halter AND leadrope, sometimes if the horse doesn't have a halter on, it will be on the fence and I slip it on the horse and I ride at an english facility. We do not tie our horses to a post. They crosstie and because it is a boarding facility, does lessons, etc. if a horse spooks on cross-ties for whatever reason we want it to be able to get off of them instead of panic and end up rearing/bumping a head or getting hung up on ties. 

Nylon halters are a problem, I have seen horrors of horses getting hung up on cross ties or a horse getting loose(with halter and lead attached) and getting the lead stuck somewhere and the halter did not give. 

You can have your opinions about halters but, to promote safety we use breakaway halters and our horses all respect the cross ties.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

Arksly said:


> Not only they could learn that if they pull hard enough the halter is gone. You could end up with a horse that has become head shy and panic every time there is any pressure on their poll.


And a horse that pulls gets a chain over the nose for a few days to be reminded that he or she is to be respectful.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Chains break too. :wink:


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

Ok. You keep your chains and Ill keep my breakaway halters.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't use chains. I'm just saying that a horse that has learned it can break it's halter can also break the chain you would use to "correct" the pulling.

My girls have nice leather halters. When I taught my little one to tie, I used a rope halter. It didn't break, she couldn't leave, and she learned to stand tied. If I had used a halter that broke [nylon or leather], my battle would have been twice as long.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

Well as I said, I am from an english barn. Our horses cross tie and the babies we teach to cross tie respect the pull on their nose when they try to walk forward on the cross ties. I have never had a horse try to run off on me and end up breaking a halter. I said they break them in play. The horses respect me, I have been working there for 2 years and when I use the chain, the horses back off and respect it. Soo as I said, you can use what you want and whatever works for you for whatever way you do it, and I will do what works for me. You can argue this all day long but both have their pros and cons. I just like to know that if my horse has a halter on in turnout, it will break if he gets stuck.

Ive been working with horses for 12 years and the horses that have been disrespectful while leading were all solved with a chain over the nose a few times.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Thats what I have to do with my mare sometimes too. And my horses don't constantly get out.... But they have, so I leave their halters on.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I see no pros to leaving halters on. Sorry. =]


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

Well you just don't work at a large boarding facility. Try moving around 50 horses a day before it gets pitch black in 2-3 feet of snow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Been there, done that. I told you my solution; halters with a throatlatch buckle, that can be slipped on over their ears.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

Okay. That is what we have however much easier to attach a lead
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

But then you have to juggle all those lead ropes, and then deal with a snap. No-snap just seems so much simpler than a snap. Slip on and go seems much easier. =]


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

ohsareee said:


> Well you just don't work at a large boarding facility. Try moving around 50 horses a day before it gets pitch black in 2-3 feet of snow
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do. We never have any problems using a rope halter to go out and grab horses really quick. It takes about ten seconds to tie a rope halter and be on your way. Of course, if laziness is a factor, then by all means put the horses at risk.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

I bring them in one at a time and it takes literally one second to snap a lead rather then take time to slip the ear up and over the horses head especially if they're tall. I'm no amazon woman
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

We've never had a prob with the halters and the type of barn I ride at we don't use "rope halters" cuz we need the side slots for cross ties sooo that wouldn't work
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

It also takes one second to slip a halter over their ears.

The place I worked at, I brought in 2-4 horses at once. I'm not tall, but it was still a piece of cake to slip halters on. I'd rather spend the extra ten minutes haltering then have to call a horse owner because their horse got it's foot stuck in it's halter and broke it's neck or dislocated it's hip. I guess we just have different priorities.


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## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

I think that if you're going to talk about safety, you shouldn't brag about bringing in more than one horse at once because I see no pros in that, not to mention how unsafe it is.

But I think that instead of arguing with other members on whose horses wear halters and whose don't, why don't we try to focus on the OP's question about separation, and if you want to debate on leaving on/taking off halters, go make a new thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Those who say there is never a pro to leaving a halter on, what would you do in my situation?

My Arab has a white nose. If left exposed it burns in a few hours. After a day it will crack and bleed. If I put zinc on, he rubs it off on his legs. Flyveils or hoods with nose covers he has figured out how to flip the cover up and still get burnt. 

So he has a halter on 24/7 with a cotton nose flap he can't flip up. He has had this now for about four years and his nose is really good. 

When he doesn't have his flap on, at the moment in summer, he wears a grazing muzzle 24/7 to keep him from foundering. 

What would be a solution that doesn't use a halter left on?

I agree it should be avoided if possible - none of my others wear halters - but there are times when it is a useful or necessary risk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

A safety halter breaks under pressure. I have seen it happen when the horses play and my horse got his halter stuck on a fence which broke instantly when he pulled back. Safety halters serve their purpose and if a halter is fitted properly a horses hoof should not be able to to get into it. I simply was giving my opinion as to what the OP said and she asked about why they pull each others halter which I simply said ours do that too. I just saying I prefer when our horses have them on, it makes my job much easier and there hasn't been a problem at my barn in all its years of operation except for those stupid all nylon halters. 

Fact is the safetys work and in 12 years of using them, I've never had a horse break out of them from pulling? So think what you want but its what us east coaster hunter jumper riders do and what is said on here is not going to change the way things are done here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I was not bragging. That was how I efficiently brought in horses in no time. Leading two horses at once is easy, if you have two well-trained horses. Furthermore, one horse can get away from you whether you are leading one or two at a time. Should we not ever lead horses then? A perfectly trained horse can still get it's halter stuck on something.

WS, in your case, it is a necessary evil. I would grudgingly do the same. But it is not the same as leaving halters on for convenience sake.

I don't see what being a hunter jumper, or an east coaster has to do with anything, but I guess if you feel it's an important piece of information to your point, so be it.

Your post was contradictory though. First, you say safety halters break under pressure, then you say you have never had a safety halter break from pulling. Which is it?

And for the record, nylon halters do break. A pulling horse can snap or pull apart the metal rings in a flash. Ask me how I know this. :wink:

I just see no reason to put a horse at risk for a convenience. [And no, an experienced horsemen leading two well-behaved horses at once isn't putting them any more at risk than leading one horse at a time.]


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

riccil0ve said:


> I was not bragging. That was how I efficiently brought in horses in no time. Leading two horses at once is easy, if you have two well-trained horses. Furthermore, one horse can get away from you whether you are leading one or two at a time. Should we not ever lead horses then? A perfectly trained horse can still get it's halter stuck on something.
> 
> WS, in your case, it is a necessary evil. I would grudgingly do the same. But it is not the same as leaving halters on for convenience sake.
> 
> ...


Agreed, especially with the east coast hunter jumper thing. 

I don't understand whether a barn is an english barn or not (because she keeps mentioning that) has to do with halters. lol.


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## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

How isn't leading more than one horse at a time putting a horse at risk for convenience?
Not that it matters, you lead 20 horses if you want and I will lead my 1 at a time.
As for the OP, I would say close monitoring is the only way to determine whether to separate them or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Maybe the rope halter thing? I couldn't tie a rope halter in ten seconds, that's for sure. But I don't use them. Even a total noob can slip a halter over a horses ears. =P

ETA: Not any more than leading one horse at a time. If the horse is going to take off, it's going to do it, whether he puts rope burns on one hand or two. These were well-trained horses, they were buddies. Putting them at risk would be trying to lead the resident witch mare with any other horse, or leading a greenie with another horse. But a well trained horse can still get it's halter stuck on something.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

The reference to location and discipline: where I'm from the english people generally use cross ties and do not use rope halters whereas the western generaly tie a horse somewhere with a lead or use rope halters. 

I've lef more than one horse in bad weather but our doors are not very big so in narrow spaces it is just easier for me to maneuver one. You can do whatever you please at your barn but were gonna leave the halters on. 

About the not breaking vs breaking. You were saying a horse that pulls when being led in a breakaway will break the halter and get loose? Never heard of or seen that happen. I have however seen the halters break if they get caught on something and the horse panics. I'm not doubting a nylon halter won't break, I've seen a horse break a bit because it got stuck. 

I'm saying though my personal experiences the "breakaway" and leather halters break quicker and easier. It is my opinion and my own practice and since they break easily it is safe. Not gonna change based on what people in a forum think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

No, that is not what I said. I said this;



riccil0ve said:


> Smrobs is usually the one that points this out, but seeing as she's not here, I will say it; the problem with breakaway halters are that it teaches a horse that they can break their halters. "Hmm, I don't want to stand at this tie post anymore," *sits on haunches and breaks halter* Granted, not every horse will learn this, but enough do that it causes problems. Then you have to teach the horse to tie all over again, in a halter that won't break.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

As a note, I've owned some hard to catch horses and some escape artist horses in my life time that necessitated the use of halters during turnout. Thankfully, my grandpa has owned horses a LONG time and we have dozens of old ratty halters that break under any sort of pressure.

In all my years, I have never once had a single horse figure out that rubbing or breaking a halter in the pasture could also work while tied. Granted, most of them just slipped their halters from time to time but occasionally some came in with broken straps. I've lost and broken a lot of halters over the years but it's just a necessary evil sometimes and you usually end up finding the lost ones over the course of the years.

When you have an escape artist horse who crashes the fence and takes the entire herd with him, you'll learn a thing or two about training. I've met some of the BEST trained horses in my lifetime who will flat out ignore you if they're having a good run with a buddy or the rest of the herd. You cease to matter entirely when the ACTUAL leader is taking the herd for a run.

It's easy to try and fit things into neat little boxes, but the fact of the matter is it simply doesn't work sometimes. There ARE ways to be as safe as possible in situations where you're forced to be unsafe. I am MUCH happier knowing my horse has a breaking halter that could save his life if someone finds him on the highway then assuming he could NEVER possibly escape and will always be safe and sound.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

Macabre - you said it exactly how I was intending it. A horse is an ANIMAL, they are also an animal that acts on a flight instinct. For the type of facility that I am a part of, sometimes a horse or two gets loose and they have the safety net of a halter. My facility is near some busy roads, especially close to a road with sharp turns where you cannot see around the corners and people FLY around it. I have friends that lost a horse because two escaped onto a busy road. On my watch, so far(knock on wood), I have not let any loose but it can happen which is why they wear halters. 

They also can get into each others paddocks and the alpha male(gelding) of a herd that has mares that are in heat starts fighting with the intruding other gelding in an all out fight, it is a good thing they were wearing halters. 

I have nothing more to say than our horses wear halters incase of an escape or emergency and that is what our method has always been and will continue as. And they have PROVEN to break if a horse gets hunt up in them so that the horse does not injure itself and our horses respect the halters when they are being handled and I have cross tie broken many young ones. 

Its the horse world, everyone does it different and everyone has different reasonings and experiences that shape what they do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

I found out today that the "dreaded" nylon halters actually do break... Mitchell got a fright for whatever reason, pulled back, snapped the bailing twine and took his halter, lead rope, saddle and everything with him (except the bridle I had already taken that off) I went out to catch him again, thankfully he doesn't run far from "mummy" when he gets a fright.. But on catching him I found he had completely shredded the head strap of his halter, the steel eye thingy you clip it onto had ripped all the way down the head piece and come off the halter entirely. There goes that brand new stinkin expensive halter... But ohwell he's still in one piece and so am I.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

There is two sides to leaving them on.
Personally i take most off except for the brats who know they can run faster and longer then me however there in cheap leather which will snap.
I also had escape houdinis that broke my heart and getting in the gate was an experience ( that was where they were breaking out). We ran electric fencing all round the firled including just in fron of the gate and bolted and chained the gate. However these guys were far from the road. 
I would never leave anything on a horse that can be seen from the road as ti makes them easier to rob if they just need to be grabbed.
Ray as regards them getting out keep a bucket of gravel near by and when you shake it sounds like feed they come running.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Ray MacDonald said:


> My horses aren't hard to catch in the pasture. They come right up to you. It's when they get out and are heading to the highway that I have a problem with.


If you can get close enough to grab their halter then you are close enough to toss a rope over their neck and put on a halter.
:wink:



natisha said:


> I only use well fitted leather halters.


I am not anti halter in turn out as long as they fit this category.


(Mine are naked, but a well fitted light weight leather halter is not a bad thing.)


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

Always - in my experience, when a horse scared and/or running and they see a rope coming at them...it will usually send them running again. I have caught one by slipping a rope over him but, he is probably the "stupidest" horse. And by that I mean he doesn't really act on regular horse behavior. On another note, if a rope is around the neck and a horse decides to run again, that horse can find it easy to run through that and get loose again whereas a halter, you have control of their head. These are just my experiences.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

ohsareee said:


> Always - in my experience, when a horse scared and/or running and they see a rope coming at them...it will usually send them running again. I have caught one by slipping a rope over him but, he is probably the "stupidest" horse. And by that I mean he doesn't really act on regular horse behavior. On another note, if a rope is around the neck and a horse decides to run again, that horse can find it easy to run through that and get loose again whereas a halter, you have control of their head. These are just my experiences.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am not suggesting you toss a rope like you are trying to lasso the poor thing.

If you can get close enough to grab a halter, you are close enough to slip a rope quietly around their neck and put a halter on while you have them contained with the rope around their neck.

If they are spooking enough that the rope draped over their neck is not working you are most likely getting your fingers broken because you certainly have not been able to get the lead rope attached either, so your unsafe holding the halter in your hand.

There is no perfect answer. I have chased many a loose horse in my life (been around a long time). Having on or not having on a halter has not been the issue when it comes to catching them.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I have a pony who used to be impossible to catch (he's still difficult, but much, MUCH better than he was).

The first time we caught him after 3 months of trying was because he busted out of the paddock and we blocked him in a small area that he couldn't get out of. After that I put a nylon halter on him before I turned him out again. 

At that stage I didn't have a smaller yard to put him in so he had to go back out in the big paddock. I can tell you from experience that it was no easier to catch him with that halter on then it was without it. When we finally caught him again the halter was removed and has not been left on him since.

Oh and as far as when he busts out of his yard, which he does do on occasion, we can catch him relatively easily because I have spent hours working on getting him to LET me catch him, no matter where he is.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Thank you Always and HowClever. I meant to bring that up, because that is a valid point. If your horse is running and doesn't want to be caught, a halter won't make much of a difference.


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## ohsareee (Jan 9, 2010)

I won't deny that ricci I am saying if it is loose and you can get close enough but do not have time to look around for a lead. There is no indefinate answer and none of you will get me to take the halters off in turnout. Works for me/my barn and they'll still wear em
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horsplay (Jan 25, 2011)

OP: I noticed you have not said anything since your original post. As far as the "fighting" goes I would try to separate them at feedings and if feeding hay throw an extra flake. We just introduced a 4th horse to the pasture at the barn where I keep my horse and we feed hay. at first the new horse and my horse did not get along at all after about 2 mins my horse was removed and the other 3 got along fine. I went out the next day and introduced the new horse and mine again. There was kicking and biting and pinning of ears and some fence rattling but no one got hurt. I watched them the whole time, no halters, when things settled down I let the other 2 horses in with them. My horse still chased the Filly when she came close and challenged his position in the hierarchy. when Things had settled to a level where I was comfortable they would not injure each other I fed them. Each got a flake of hay separated by a few yards and because my gelding kept chasing her off I walked another flake to the far end of the pasture where my gelding would let her eat. It has been about a week and the fighting has stopped and they can be fed near each other now (I always separate feed by a few yards. If they are on special diets I would separate them completely for feeding. If they are just playing I would leave them be, they won't usually injure each other too bad if they are just playing.

As far as the halter issue. I prefer my horse not to wear one when not necessary but if you feel the need to leave them on I hope they break under stress becouse they can be dangerous if they don't. Please let us know how things are going. I would love to know what has worked for you for this problem.


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## Azale1 (Jul 5, 2010)

As far as I am concerned there are safe halters to be put to pasture in and unsafe halters. The safe ones are full leather or a breakaway where most is nylon and the crownpiece is leather. These halters are made to break. I don't see a problem with horses going out in them and I actually prefer it. And if it trully was unsafe then I highly doubt that the breeding farm I worked at in KY that boarded multi million dollar mares would keep thier halters on in pasture if there really was a worry of something happening to them.


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