# My horse just started laying down when I put his saddle on! Whats going on?



## dressagegirl77

So about a week ago I put my horses saddle on and i went to grab the bridle and i saw him try to lay down, (going down in the front), i quick yelled at him and unhooked him and walked him around, then he was fine, i rode him and he was good.

So Today I have him in cross ties and groomed him and put the saddle on and went to go get my bridle, as soon as i turned away he started moving around and started trying to lay down. I kept yelling at him trying to get him to stop but he would just pop up then go to do it again. after doing this a few times, he actually got down, (I managed to undo the cross ties) he layed down flat on his side,(head down and everything), with the saddle on. He scared me half to death! I thought he was dropping dead or something! after laying for a few seconds, he got up and walked off. :shock: Then he seemed fine. He got scratched up pretty good but was sound. I lunged him to see if he was ok, then I rode him, he was perfectly happy and good when i rode him. 
I am so baffled at this behavior, my trainer thinks it is a behavioral thing, but me and the girl that was in the barn with me don't understand.
please help me and give your input:?


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## wetrain17

How tight is the girth when you first put on the saddle?

I had a horse do this to me a few times. She was sort of neurotic to begin with, but what I had to end up doing everytime I rode her was put the saddle on, tighten the girth so it was barely touching her belly, walk her around a little, tighten the girth another hole, walk her around a little, and just repeated the process.


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## crimsonsky

well that's an interesting one. never seen a horse do that so unfortunately i'm of no help but i'm interested to see what others say. 

welcome to the forum btw.


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## dressagegirl77

I dont tighten the girth up very tight, but i should try that and walking him right after i put the saddle on. this is just the strangest thing ive ever seen, thankyou for replying


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## DraftyAiresMum

My friend's arab gelding does this. He had a traumatic incident involving being cinched up and now his brain shuts down when he's being cinched and he'll pass out. First time we saw him do it, we were all just staring at him like :shock:. He was trained as an endurance racer and when he was cinched up before a race, they caught some of his skin in the off-side of the cinch (his right side). They apparently didn't realize or didn't care because they raced him like that. He now has a pretty bad scar on that side in the shape of the girth buckle. 

What my friend has to do is put the saddle on him and cinch it lightly (just enough so the saddle doesn't slide around). Then she walks/lunges him in circles for a couple of minutes until he's relaxed. Then she brings him in and tightens the cinch a little more, then sends him back out to lunge a little. It generally takes her about five minutes to get her saddle all the way cinched up, constantly lunging him to calm down/disengage, then bringing him in to tighten it up a little more. He hasn't gone down on her since she started doing that.


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## Easter

DraftyAiresMum said:


> My friend's arab gelding does this. *He had a traumatic incident involving being cinched up and now his brain shuts down when he's being cinched and he'll pass out.* First time we saw him do it, we were all just staring at him like :shock:. He was trained as an endurance racer and when he was cinched up before a race, they caught some of his skin in the off-side of the cinch (his right side). They apparently didn't realize or didn't care because they raced him like that. He now has a pretty bad scar on that side in the shape of the girth buckle.
> 
> What my friend has to do is put the saddle on him and cinch it lightly (just enough so the saddle doesn't slide around). Then she walks/lunges him in circles for a couple of minutes until he's relaxed. Then she brings him in and tightens the cinch a little more, then sends him back out to lunge a little. It generally takes her about five minutes to get her saddle all the way cinched up, constantly lunging him to calm down/disengage, then bringing him in to tighten it up a little more. He hasn't gone down on her since she started doing that.


:rofl: This made my day.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Easter said:


> :rofl: This made my day.


It's actually kind of scary when he does it. He hyperventilates, goes down on his knees, then just collapses onto his side. From the time he starts hyperventilating until he goes down is less than a thirty seconds, so most of the time it happens so fast, there's nothing you can do about it.

Not sure how that's funny. :?


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## dressagegirl77

When my horse was going down, i was terrified, after it was all done, my knees were shaking like a leaf! Definately not funny


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## Painted Horse

I borrowed a horse once and when I cinched the saddle tight he passed out and dropped. I loosened the cinch and he was fine. I'm a lot more careful about how tight I cinch a horse. Especially if Im not familar with it.

As I've become a better rider, more balanced and more centered, I leave my cinches kinda loose nowdays. 

I've been told there is a nerve that the cinch can pinch if it's too tight that will cause the problem. Some horses are more sensitive than others


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## COWCHICK77

It is easy to "girt' a horse, the muscle were the cinch lies and runs from the sternum up behind the elbow over the ribcage is thin and sensitive compared to other muscles on the horse. 

If the horse having any other issues, like short striding under saddle, you might consider having a chiro taking a look.


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## Easter

DraftyAiresMum said:


> It's actually kind of scary when he does it. He hyperventilates, goes down on his knees, then just collapses onto his side. From the time he starts hyperventilating until he goes down is less than a thirty seconds, so most of the time it happens so fast, there's nothing you can do about it.
> 
> Not sure how that's funny. :?


Not funny in a way that would be detrimental to his health- that would be scary! I just have a SUPER dramatic mare and can totally picture her just fainting at the sight of something scary. Sorry!


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## DraftyAiresMum

Easter said:


> Not funny in a way that would be detrimental to his health- that would be scary! I just have a SUPER dramatic mare and can totally picture her just fainting at the sight of something scary. Sorry!


Honestly, the first time he did it, we thought he was putting us on. He's an arab and has that arab dramatic flare. ;-) But, this unfortunately, he wasn't just putting us on.


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## chandra1313

Painted Horse said:


> I borrowed a horse once and when I cinched the saddle tight he passed out and dropped. I loosened the cinch and he was fine. I'm a lot more careful about how tight I cinch a horse. Especially if Im not familar with it.
> 
> As I've become a better rider, more balanced and more centered, I leave my cinches kinda loose nowdays.
> 
> I've been told there is a nerve that the cinch can pinch if it's too tight that will cause the problem. Some horses are more sensitive than others


A friend of mine also has a horse that does that if you cinch him up too tight, it was scary the first time, it hasn't happened since they started being more careful about cinching him up.
I also have a friend whose horse did this to him when he would go to bridle his horse, once without a saddle on and once with a saddle on. That same horse tries to sling the bridle out of his mouth when your taking it off, he kind of grabs it and tosses it in the air. He does not like to be bridled. When he layed down it was kind of funny we just knew it was him trying to figure out how not to be bridled. Whereas with the other horse he sorta staggered and went down two totally different looks to it.


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## dressagegirl77

Yeah my horse staggered first and then went down, The weird thing about it is that i have had him a little under a year and he never did this for me before=/


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## mls

dressagegirl77 said:


> Yeah my horse staggered first and then went down, The weird thing about it is that i have had him a little under a year and he never did this for me before=/


Has his weight or tack changed in the last month?

As was mentioned, you are likely hitting the nerve that causes the same type of sensation as when you band your elbow and everything in your arm tingles. In the case of the horse, the pressure is still there so they lose sensation and drop.


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## GreenBackJack

I think all the other comments about the cinch pinching are very good. I wonder though since you say he's not done it before and that he's fine lunging and riding after these incidents if it's not something else more "horsey." Is he stalled and then you take him out to saddle up? What I'm wondering is if he is just literally wanting a good roll and this is the only opportunity he's getting right out of the gate. It's spring and all animals do whacky confusing things that confound us humans. You haven't said anything that makes it sound like he's in discomfort or pain. Just acting a little weird and scaring the pants off you. Now that does sound like an Arab! LOL


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## dressagegirl77

He is turned out alot right now since the weather is very nice here. I haven't changed anything with the tack lately. We he goes to lay down, he looks like he is uncomfortable in some way,...he is a thoroughbred, and he is definatelly the typical sensitive TB. His withers are sky high and he is terribly long thru his back,...the girl who had him before said she always had issues with the saddle slipping back, and i have too, i try to make sure he is padded up pretty good. When the saddle ends up a little further back, he never seems to be bothered tho...
I dont know
He also has stifness issues with his hind legs...We are thinking that may have to do with this...also his but muscles are uneven, his left is huge and his right is pretty small. but we think thats been evening out a little lately...
weirrrd....


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## DraftyAiresMum

Did you have him checked by the vet before you bought him? My friend had an OTTB she bought directly off the track whose butt muscles were similar to what you're describing with your boy (one bigger than the other). He was fine at liberty and lunging, but as soon as you put the saddle on him, he would come up lame. She finally got the vet out to check him and it turned out he had fractured his hip on the track and it didn't heal correctly. He can never be even a light riding horse because of it. 

I'm wondering if your boy has maybe hurt himself out in the turnout somehow. Not horribly injured, but enough to where the extra weight of the saddle and you is making it hurt. His way of letting you know that he doesn't want to be saddled/worked is by dropping out from under the saddle. My friend's TB would dance all over the place, trying to avoid being saddled.

I'm gonna vote get the vet out to check him.


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## dressagegirl77

The vet did come out the next day to give shots and i had him check him out, even saddled him and showed him what he does. he did flextion tests, palpated his back and watched him work on the lunge line. My horse does have a 'hunter bump' but he had that when i got him and she said he never had issues with it, and i really dont think it has to do with the bump. The vet palpated his back and my horse was very sensitive to fingertips putting pressure, buuuuttt, he is never back sore when i curry him on his back, and my instructor is thinking that he isnt as back sore as the vet thinks. Have you ever heard of the ESPM disease that is very prevalent in drafts? I read up about this and the symptoms seem pretty similar, and he is a huge thoroughbred and even the vet thought that he may have draft in him....so that gets me thinking...the reallly weird thing is that he has been really good to ride, hasn't acted up or shown any signs of ****yness...I think i need to have the vet take a better look at him, all he did was put him on some bute and muscle relaxers
The vet seems to think its the bump because it is very noticeable, im just not sold on that


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## AlexS

The horse I owned as a teenager did this. She was an amazing girl, and so willing to do whatever was asked of her. 
She didn't full lay down, just kind of dipped severely. It was the first I knew that she had back problems.


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## barrelbeginner

i dont know if someone said this already but my horse sunny does the same thing.. i asked my farrier and if you tighten the girth to fast without letting him get used to it little by little you cut of circulation. the have a circulation vein or whatever where we put the girth.. cutting that off to fast causes the horse to do that.. at least when my horse did it thats what i was told... now what i do is tighten it a little... but his bit in.. tighten it more... then i walk him around and finish it... hope this helps


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## oceanne

Sounds like it could possibly be a saddle fit/position problem.Your saddle might be putting pressure on a nerve, which can cause him to go down.
Just something to be aware of and perhaps consider .
@Barrelbeginner.You are right too,that can happen and is another thing to consider as well.


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## oceanne

I should elaborate a touch on that..It isnt a vein where the circulation is cut off,but a nerve or nerves that involves the Pneumogastric nerve, solar plexus and semilunar ganglion.So dont get mad at your guy, just check to make sure your tack isnt applying undue pressure.


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## Oldhorselady

oceanne said:


> I should elaborate a touch on that..It isnt a vein where the circulation is cut off,but a nerve or nerves that involves the Pneumogastric nerve, solar plexus and semilunar ganglion.So dont get mad at your guy, just check to make sure your tack isnt applying undue pressure.


I will have to remember that and POSSIBLY give my OTTB credit....Funny story actually....a little history first....he is a drama king type of horse...the class clown with adhd is how I best describe him.

Well, the first time I went to lunge him under saddle.....I had him tied and was tacking him up. He stretched his front legs out and went down....all the way down....face flat on the ground. I turned away from him...I had a friend witness that as I turned around, he looked up at me and when I turned back around he put his face back flat on the ground. lol.

He has never done it since. He is very good at trying new things to avoid what I am trying to do with him ie: as the farrier is trying to do his hind feet he tries to buck, then he won't try it again when he doesn't get away with it....next time he tries something else. Needless to say, he eventually must run out of ideas because he actually turns into a good boy. But he really seems like he just runs out of ideas....sooooo funny.

But, if he ever tries to lay down under saddle again, I will remember that.


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## oceanne

LOL... the little stinker.
Thing is,it never hurts to check all the angles.


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## rob

ds,next time you girth him,leave it loose and turn yur back,and see if he goes all the way to the ground.and let me know what happens.
thank you


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## Saddlebag

Google Paul Williams or Endospink. He uses that sensitivity to lay very difficult horses down. Paul retrains problematic race horses and is a very skilled horseman.


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## CBailey04

To Easter, Thats pretty cruel I can't beleive you would even begin to think thats funny:evil:

DraftyAiresMum: that poor thing, no wonder he's scared of cinching...hopefully with her patience he'll eventually get completely over his fear. But thats completely understandable, I'm glad he has such a great owner now


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## Oldhorselady

I have seen Endospink lay his horses down....I was thinking that the technique was pressure on that nerve when flexing their necks.


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## Alinefazzi

Hi there! My mare is giving me heart attacks lately on those last 3 days in a row.... I mean, it’s not fun to see her kind of “laying” down when I put my saddle on her and I girth it. 
After she lays down, I mounted her and she runs fine, jump and everything... 
I don’t get it. I’m only concerned cause she’s a senior horse, on hers 20’s. 
My trainers says exactly than yours, a behavior type, but I’m so impressed seeing her doing it, I’m afraid if it’s something else. 
How did you solve this issue with your horse? Any tips, advice it certainly helps. 
Thanks!


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## boots

I've had a couple experiences with horses laying down as they are saddled.

Two were the result of the cinch/girth hurting the superficial pneumogastic n. A change in the lengths of girth fixed them. 

The other was my youngest child's horse. She had been purchased to be a dude horse for a youth camp. Her training was as a team roping horse, but she didn't have the speed to be competitive. She did not like being a dude horse and began this laying down business. Dude strings don't have time for that. So daughter picked her up really cheap. 

Horse never did it with her. But... oldest daughter needed a third horse for fall work and borrowed the mare. Things went okay at first, then the mare layed down a few times. However, oldest was savvy and would sense when it was going to happen. A verbal correction and the mare would straighten out.


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