# Mr Gun Smoke Bloodlines



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

The stallion owner should have filed stallion breeding reports....

You are going to need stallion owner's signatures on registrations, too.

I would contact them.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

greentree said:


> The stallion owner should have filed stallion breeding reports....
> 
> You are going to need stallion owner's signatures on registrations, too.
> 
> I would contact them.


The OP is the stallion owner. She doesn't have her stallion's registration papers, though. She doesn't even know the stallion's registered name.

OP, contact the breeder. They should be able to help you out a lot. I contacted the breeder of my gelding when I first bought him and based off his age and a picture I had of him, they were able to tell me who his sire and dam were.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Can you contact his breeder and find the information that way? If he's registered, his registry [APHA?] may be able to help...

Is he registered, for sure? 

May I ask why you bred him without having that information in-hand already? It seems way trickier to do it now, vs then!


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

I got him without knowing he was registered. His previous owner failed to mention it with no fault of his own. He didn't think it was important. I do not have any contact information on his original breeder but I can get it through his previous owner. 

I was told he was registered with the AQHA but APHA would make more sense since he is a tobiano. All I know is her name is Glenda Hodge and lived in Muscle Shoals, Alabama.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Oh, ok....APHA may be able to help. You are going to be responsible for the lack of stallion breeding reports, though. I am confused as to why you would buy a breeding stallion with no papers....


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

greentree said:


> Oh, ok....APHA may be able to help. You are going to be responsible for the lack of stallion breeding reports, though. I am confused as to why you would buy a breeding stallion with no papers....


Papers aren't everything. He's never bred before when we bought him. And we didn't know about his registration until AFTER we bred him.

APHA did what they could. They don't have any Glenda Hodge from Alabama so I'm guessing she bought him from a breeder?


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

They are not everything, but they are quite a lot if you want to breed any horses that are worth anything. In the market today, it is difficult to establish any value in a grade horse.

Sorry, this is confusing.....I thought you knew who his breeder was....and all that "breeder" means is the person who owned his dam.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

greentree said:


> They are not everything, but they are quite a lot if you want to breed any horses that are worth anything. In the market today, it is difficult to establish any value in a grade horse.
> 
> Sorry, this is confusing.....I thought you knew who his breeder was....and all that "breeder" means is the person who owned his dam.


I honestly thought she did but I checked with APHA and AQHA and neither have her as a breeder. So she must have bought him from one. 

Someone suggested taking a DNA test to see who his parents are which would give me an easier chance at finding what his registered name is. I may do the same with my palomino mare so I can register their baby.

You are right about the market for grade horses. That's why I'd like to know my stud's pedigree so I can at least half register his babies with grade mares.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

daystar88 said:


> You are right about the market for grade horses. That's why I'd like to know my stud's pedigree so I can at least half register his babies with grade mares.


There's no registry for 1/2 Paint or 1/2 QH horses. You can register them with the Pinto Horse Association based on color, either full registry or solid registry but as far as I know, that's the only option.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Pinto does not register stallions on hardship....the babies are solid, so without Pinto parents, they are grade.

Your mare is grade, too? Even if the stallion is registered Paint, the colts cannot be registered Paint out of a grade mare.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

greentree said:


> Pinto does not register stallions on hardship....the babies are solid, so without Pinto parents, they are grade.
> 
> Your mare is grade, too? Even if the stallion is registered Paint, the colts cannot be registered Paint out of a grade mare.


I just meant that the babies could probably be reg'd solid or pattern (especially if one is a gelding). Not the stallion. But really, grade is grade.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I was not contradicting your post, dreamcatcher, but saying that for OP.....she could get a Pinto registration for the horse, but only if he were gelded...


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> There's no registry for 1/2 Paint or 1/2 QH horses. You can register them with the Pinto Horse Association based on color, either full registry or solid registry but as far as I know, that's the only option.


Oh! I didn't know that. I know some registries let you half register a horse like the Arabian Association.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

I know that the stud is registered. So there is no question about that. It's more his babies I'd like to register. For the palomino baby both his parents are registered in APHA and AQHA. So I was thinking I could get him double registered. The chestnut though only the dad is registered. The mom is a grade.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

But you don't know his registered name? Do you know his sire? If you know his sire's registered name and owner, and your stallion IS registered, then they would(ok, SHOULD) have the records to lead you to his poapers.....


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

daystar88 said:


> I know that the stud is registered. So there is no question about that.


The problem is you DON'T know that the stud is registered. You believe that someone, somewhere registered him but you don't know who. The person you thought had his papers doesn't, so now you're at a stand still. Unless you can find out his breeder's name, or an owner's name that actually had the papers, he is still considered grade because you have no PROOF that he is actually really registered. It's sad that so many people just buy a horse, take someone's word that the horse is registered and then lose touch and thus never find out for sure that a horse really has a registration. Registration is not everything, but when it comes to adding value to them for people who want to show in a breed show or breed animals, registration is the ONE thing that will make or break a deal before a person even sees the horse.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

You CANNOT register the colts unless thecstallion is in YOUR name.officially, with the REGISTRY.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Agreed with everyone. It is not to sound harsh, only honest, that from a buying standpoint I will NOT look at a horse without papers - Just because papers aren't everything doesn't mean I will go without. There are thousands of good registered horses out there, why would I look at grades?

You need to track down the studs papers, and if the mares are grades...Well, not to say that they aren't good horses because I'm sure they are....I wouldn't even look a second time at those colts. 

And I'm not sure where Mr Gun Smoke comes into this. Did you buy your stud from someone claiming he is Gun Smoke bred?


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

The man I got him from saw his papers and knew he was registered yet chose not to take them. Therefore I do know he is registered. I do not know his sire's name either. 

All I asked was what way should I go about finding his papers. Registering his babies is not important to me. All I want to know is his registered name that's all.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

daystar88 said:


> The man I got him from saw his papers and knew he was registered yet chose not to take them. Therefore I do know he is registered. I do not know his sire's name either.
> 
> All I asked was what way should I go about finding his papers. Registering his babies is not important to me. All I want to know is his registered name that's all.


Contact the man you got him from, who CLAIMS to have seen his papers, and ask who had the papers last and to give you that person's contact info.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

you cannot register any foals with a grade mare, unless you are doing pinto. You may want to check the guidelines for the palomino registry , but they may require registered parents.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Palomino requires not only that the parents be registered but the horse must be registered with another accepted breed registry like APHA, AQHA, PtHA.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Contact the man you got him from, who CLAIMS to have seen his papers, and ask who had the papers last and to give you that person's contact info.


I emailed him the other day and am waiting for a reply.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Once again for the palomino colt his mom IS registered so she isn't a grade mare. The other baby's mother is grade so clearly he won't be able to be registered from what y'all are telling me.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

The only way to find that out is to go back and ask them....no body will care about you telling them what his name is, or what his bloodlines are if there are no papers to prove it....


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Do you have the mares papers in hand and have they been transferred to you or your parents? I thought earlier in this thread as well as in a past thread you said you did not have her papers either and that the situation was similar - you were told she was and took it on faith. If you don't have them but know her registered name then i can look up her owner. Without a name for the stallion you are at a loss until you find more information. There is a half registry for QH and they offer several different levels of registration. This is the link American Half Quarter Horse Registry | Recognizing All Half Quarter Horse Breeds if that does not copy then google halfquarterhorseregistry and it should come up. Those wanting breeding stock or horses for breed shows won't consider this what they are looking for but perhaps it will help. There is no way the stud would be registered AQHA with his markings. The baby would be eligible for solid registration through the APHA if you can get registration papers on the stud and if you have the mare's papers in hand. FOr a horse to be double registered the Paint half must be eligible for registration in the AQHA.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

daystar88 said:


> Once again for the palomino colt his mom IS registered so she isn't a grade mare.


Do you have her papers in your possession?


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Do you have her papers in your possession?


I'm also working on getting her papers. I personally did see her papers just not hold them.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

There is a QH listed for that year that was registered chestnut called Daystars Khara Grace. Considering she is so dark with such a white mane and tale she was registered incorrectly color wise. She is still registered as belonging to an owner in TX. Is that your mare? If so then once you have her papers and they have been transferred you can register with the Half Quarter Horse Registry. If you do happen to locate the stud's papers and have him transferred then you could have the baby registered APHA as solid bred as well and then update the Half Registry so the full parentage is listed. Who knows maybe if you did a DNA test they could identify his registered name if they have another/other foals by him in their database.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

QtrBel said:


> There is a QH listed for that year that was registered chestnut called Daystars Khara Grace. Considering she is so dark with such a white mane and tale she was registered incorrectly color wise. She is still registered as belonging to an owner in TX. Is that your mare? If so then once you have her papers and they have been transferred you can register with the Half Quarter Horse Registry. If you do happen to locate the stud's papers and have him transferred then you could have the baby registered APHA as solid bred as well and then update the Half Registry so the full parentage is listed. Who knows maybe if you did a DNA test they could identify his registered name if they have another/other foals by him in their database.


I don't think that's her. I named her Day Star myself.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

You're out of luck if you don't know who the breeder is.

And I hope you aren't toting him to potential mare owners that he is registered. They find out their foals can't be registered you'll be slapped with a suit so fast your head will spin.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

EliRose said:


> You're out of luck if you don't know who the breeder is.
> 
> And I hope you aren't toting him to potential mare owners that he is registered. They find out their foals can't be registered you'll be slapped with a suit so fast your head will spin.


Whoever breeds their mare to him would be informed we do not have his papers. But that is why I'm looking so future foals CAN be registered with registered mares.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

That's good. I've seen waaaay too many people get taken for a ride trying to get their babies registered.


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