# Possible accidental breeding... mare could foal this summer or this winter if bred.



## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Well, let me start from the beginning.

When I was given Jaxxon, both my vet an the vet his then-owners used said he was a gelding because he hadn't dropped (at two years old) and had never acted 'studly'.

After he became mine, I pastured him our big pasture (50 acres) with my mare Gypsie, my gelding Dakota, my great uncle's two mares Buttercup and Nugget, and my cousin's mare Patch.

Jax showed no signs of studly behavior at all.

About a year after I got him, we witnessed him mount my cousin's mare, Patch. I checked him and he looked like a gelding, so we figured he may have been proud-cut. However, after that, I felt like something didn't seem right and kept checking him on a regular basis after that.

Around mid-December of last year, during one of my checks on him, I found a plum. Just one. He was removed from our 50 acre pasture and placed across the road onto my other great uncle's 15 acre pasture with a few cows for company.

Around the middle of January, I brought him down to the house for a grooming session and just to hang out and work with him for a while. During that session, my cousin's mare Patch (who, by the way, is a little floozy and flirts with Jaxxon constantly over the fences...) came down to hang over the fenceline and broke through the fence and got in with him. 

I had to make a snap decision... I could either get her out f the fence with him and back in the other pasture (and either let all the other mares in through the broken fence or let Jaxxon out in the othrpasture with the other mares while I was getting Patch out of the pen), or I could spend ten minutes fixing the fence and then get Patch out.

I chose to fix the fence first, as one pregnant horse is a lot better than four pregnant horses. It took about ten minutes to get the fence fixed, but in that time Jaxxon mouted and serviced Patch twice.

When I took him to the vets in February, the vet mentioned that because Jax dropped so late, there's a 95% chance that he's infertile.

... So, the mare may or may not be bred. She does look like she's gotten fatter to me, but she's always been a pretty fat horse... if she was bred back last summer, then she'll foal out sometime in the next few months... (I don't really remember just when Jax mounted her last year, but it was late summer sometime, because it was really hot and humid)... and if she was bred back in January, then she should foal out sometime in November or December...

But hopefully she's not bred...

Here's pics of the 'maybe' sire and dam...

*Possible momma*
Patch (my cousin's horse... she's actually got pretty good conformation... she's about 12 years old and is a Racking Horse, but is unregistered and her bloodlines are unknown)

















*Possble daddy*
Jaxxon (my cryptorchid stallion... he's not the best conformation-wise, but he's pretty decent... he's almost four years old and is a Quarterhorse, but is unregistered and his bloodlines are unknown... also, that is not me riding, that's my 15 year old cousin)

























I'll be the first to admit that this was not a planned breeding and I would not have bred Jaxxon at all. I plan on gelding him this year as soon as I get the money for the surgery.

So here's hoping that she's not bred. Also, the mare's pictures are not recent at all. I don't have any recent pictures of her from this year. The first picture of the mare is the most recent one I have and it is from December, last year.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

as long as one testicle is down in the sack, he will probably be fertile. There are stallions that are bred and used all the time with one testicle down.. Not good, because its genetic, but its done.
Have the vet out to check the mare, that is the only way you will know for sure.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Next time remove the stallion even if you don't know it's a stallion.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Well, what's done is done - time to have the mare checked and pregnancy confirmed or ruled out.
If you find yourself in such a situation again, though, add option C to your list of choices - catch, remove and contain (ie tie up outside of the enclosure) the male thus eliminating the worry about ALL the mares -- and/or contacting the vet for a quick visit and lut shot after witnessed mounting ;-)


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

Do you have any current pics of your mare? There is no way we could tell over the internet whether or not she is pregnant,but pics would be helpful for guessing


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

wyominggrandma said:


> as long as one testicle is down in the sack, he will probably be fertile. There are stallions that are bred and used all the time with one testicle down.. Not good, because its genetic, but its done.
> Have the vet out to check the mare, that is the only way you will know for sure.


Maybe not. The vet said that because he dropped so late, theres onl a 5% chance that he is fertile. I didn' understand all of it, but he said something about the testicle being held up inside the adbomen for so long, that the sperm can't survive in such warm areas and due to him not dropping until December, there's a good chance he's infertile... But I didn't understand all of it...



natisha said:


> Next time remove the stallion even if you don't know it's a stallion.


I don't quite understand this... 
When I got him, two vets said he was a gelding because he showed no signs and didn't act studly in the slightest. I had no way of knowing he was a stallion until he dropped and as soon as I found his plum, he was removed from the mares... Why wold I remove my boy from the mares if I thought he was a gelding? We pasture our mares and geldings together...



themacpack said:


> Well, what's done is done - time to have the mare checked and pregnancy confirmed or ruled out.
> If you find yourself in such a situation again, though, add option C to your list of choices - catch, remove and contain (ie tie up outside of the enclosure) the male thus eliminating the worry about ALL the mares -- and/or contacting the vet for a quick visit and lut shot after witnessed mounting ;-)


At the time, I didn't even think of that, honestly. I was concerned with the other mares getting in or Jax getting out, and Jax didn't have a halter or lead on at the time this happened. I would have had to go to the tack room and get his halter and lead, by which time all the mares could have either gotten in, or Jax could have gotten out. The situation wasn't ideal, and I did what I thought was best at the time.

I offered to pay for the abortion shot for my cousin's mare, but she said no, that if the mare is pregnant, then she's pregnant. She doesn't have money for a vet check and neither do I, and even if I offered to pay for a vet check now, she woudn't take me up on the offer. I know this woman.

I'm a bit concerned now, though... when this happened bac in January, everything was fine with my cousin... but now, things have gone to hell and back, in a sense... My cousin is all essd up now... supposed to be divorcing her husband, is cheating on said husband with a drug addict, has gotten addicted to drugs and alcohol, DHR has taken her kids (15 years, 12 years, and 5 years) from her, etc, her husband is in jail, etc... 

I'm just glad that her mare is with us out here where I can at least keep an eye on her... and if she is pregnant, the foal will definately have a home either with me or my other cousin.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Piaffe said:


> Do you have any current pics of your mare? There is no way we could tell over the internet whether or not she is pregnant,but pics would be helpful for guessing


I don't have any recent pics at the moment, but I'm planning on trying to get some tomorrow.

The mare is horrible to catch (she hates being caught) so I'm going to recruit the help of a cousin tomorrow, get all the horses in the Lot, and try to get a rope around her neck.She runs from you if she thinks you're gonna catch her, but the second a rope is around her neck, she's good as gold about being caught and she's a pretty good riding horse, just timid and nervous.

So, look for a thread with pictures either tomorrow night or the next night.

Based on her looks right now, I don't think she's gonna foal this summer, if she's bred... but this winter is still a good possibility... if she's bred.


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## kartmom67 (Jan 25, 2012)

How about just getting the vet out to do an ultrasound? That'll clear up the mystery quickly.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

kartmom67 said:


> How about just getting the vet out to do an ultrasound? That'll clear up the mystery quickly.


At the moment, that's not an option. The mare's owner is nowhere around (see above posts for clarifications) and even before that, it was her children, myself, and her brother who most often took/take care of the mare.

I would pay for a vet visit if I had the money, but either way, it's not that big of an issue. Either she's bred or she isn't. We'll find out later this year... and if she is, the foal will have a home.

If it looks like she's preggers later this year (going to foal in winter) I will be bringing her down to the house until she foals. She's been bred once beore and aborted the foal due to the place where she was boarded neglecting her care...


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

She needs to be checked out and given proper shots and prenatal care. It is ridiculously irresponsible to not at least have her shots given.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

kassierae said:


> She needs to be checked out and given proper shots and prenatal care. It is ridiculously irresponsible to not at least have her shots given.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't see "an accident"......:---(


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

What shots?

When we bred my mare a few years ago, she never had shots done and my gelding is big, strong, and very healthy... and my neighber (a 'retired' TWH breeder) has never given his mares shots while preggers. He just says to not feed fescue hay and to iodine the umblical cord after birth.

A little confused here...

Back when we bred my mare, we spoke to the vet a few times and he never said anything about shots either...


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

The mare is in good shape too. She's nice and fat and isn't being ridden right now. 

Of course, I'm still holding out on the hope that she's not preggers...


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Mares should be given prenatal shots at 5, 7 and 9 months, with a booster 30 days before the approximate due date. Yes, they can and do foal without them and all will go well but there is always that chance something can go wrong. Every reputable/responsible breeder does this. You need a vet on speed dial, as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

My mares were given pneumabort (sp.?) shots at 5,7,9, and 11 months and "regular" shots a month before foaling. She should also be dewormed on a regular schedule.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Ripper said:


> I don't see "an accident"......:---(


 
The breeding, if she's bred, was an accident. Given the choice, I never would have bred Jax and he's being gelded as soon as possible. I just have to raise the money first. 

It's not my fault that our fencing isn't good enough for a determined mre and it's not my falt that the mare's owner didn't want to termiate the pregnancy when I had the money for the shot. 

I'm trying to take care of things the best I know how and can. I can't afford a vet and the mare's owner can't either, but she refused to terminate if the mare is bred.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Well, she is on a deworming schedule, same as my own horses... twice a year...

I also have the numbers of three vets in my phone.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

You can't afford a vet....what if something goes wrong? Then what?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Britt said:


> The breeding, if she's bred, was an accident. Given the choice, I never would have bred Jax and he's being gelded as soon as possible. I just have to raise the money first.
> 
> It's not my fault that our fencing isn't good enough for a determined mre and it's not my falt that the mare's owner didn't want to termiate the pregnancy when I had the money for the shot.
> 
> I'm trying to take care of things the best I know how and can. I can't afford a vet and the mare's owner can't either, but she refused to terminate if the mare is bred.


Views on this vary.....

I see it as being irresponsible.

And not just you.

Thread after thread in here is "I did not know"....

I likely had 150 horses go though my barns and one one could I not tell you the breading dates.

Off my soapbox now........


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

As far as I can tell, the theme for this entire section of the board is "easily preventable accidents." Very frustrating, particularly when people are neither willing to take the basic precautions to prevent the "accidents" (and I use that term very loosely) in the first place or take the responsible steps to care for a potentially pregnant mare afterward.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Britt said:


> I had to make a snap decision... I could either get her out f the fence with him and back in the other pasture (and either let all the other mares in through the broken fence or let Jaxxon out in the othrpasture with the other mares while I was getting Patch out of the pen), or I could spend ten minutes fixing the fence and then get Patch out.


Why couldn't you just tie him somewhere or hold him while you are putting a temp fix on fence? 

Don't want to jump on bandwagon, but who's fault that your fencing isn't good enough? Horses do kick, lean on fences, rub on fences, etc. Sometime very rough. I'd expect the fence to be sturdy enough to hold up to all that. And if it's not than it's a fault of the owner of the fence.


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

Although I may not agree with this thread exactly..and agree that some things do sound odd....I must say...accidents do happen. I know in my case...we had no stallion on the property and had never had an issue with neighboring ones jumping the fence. So when we finally realized it was happening it was too late....BUT, we are doing everything we can to insure safety of mare/foal and NOW gelding! LOL


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

ladytaurean515 said:


> Although I may not agree with this thread exactly..and agree that some things do sound odd....I must say...accidents do happen. I know in my case...we had no stallion on the property and had never had an issue with neighboring ones jumping the fence. So when we finally realized it was happening it was too late....BUT, we are doing everything we can to insure safety of mare/foal and NOW gelding! LOL


Your neighbors were irresponsible.


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

kitten_Val said:


> Why couldn't you just tie him somewhere or hold him while you are putting a temp fix on fence?
> 
> Don't want to jump on bandwagon, but who's fault that your fencing isn't good enough? Horses do kick, lean on fences, rub on fences, etc. Sometime very rough. I'd expect the fence to be sturdy enough to hold up to all that. And if it's not than it's a fault of the owner of the fence.


Agree!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

themacpack said:


> Well, what's done is done - time to have the mare checked and pregnancy confirmed or ruled out.
> If you find yourself in such a situation again, though, add option C to your list of choices - catch, remove and contain (ie tie up outside of the enclosure) the male thus eliminating the worry about ALL the mares -- and/or contacting the vet for a quick visit and lut shot after witnessed mounting ;-)


 
this might not have been possible. The "stallion" may have run around, evaded her and then gone out the hole in the fence to be with all the other mares. trying to catch him might have resulted in him gettting out where he would be even harder to catch. it is a quandry.


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

Ripper said:


> Your neighbors were irresponsible.


yes ripper and what made it worse is that he knew he had been jumping..because the same stallion was getting into another neighbors fields and they had already confronted him. I'm glad he turned him over to me. He is now gelded and seems to be a pretty good horse with cow sense so maybe now he can be used for his TRUE potential and it's NOT being a stud!


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

ladytaurean515 said:


> Although I may not agree with this thread exactly..and agree that some things do sound odd....I must say...accidents do happen. I know in my case...we had no stallion on the property and had never had an issue with neighboring ones jumping the fence. So when we finally realized it was happening it was too late....BUT, we are doing everything we can to insure safety of mare/foal and NOW gelding! LOL


So this stud was jumping out of his fence.....jumping yours and going back home undetected???


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

yes....he was apparently going into other's fields. We didn't catch him til one day he showed up at the barns with the herd at feeding time and there he was....I went to approach him and he was acting VERY studdish with my mares. I finally got him moved into the barn and shut him in there...checked him out and sure enough he was a stud......I called my friends/neighbors to see if he was a new one of theirs and they said no that he had been getting into their fields as well and told me where he belonged.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Britt said:


> I don't have any recent pics at the moment, but I'm planning on trying to get some tomorrow.
> 
> The mare is horrible to catch (she hates being caught) so I'm going to recruit the help of a cousin tomorrow, get all the horses in the Lot, and try to get a rope around her neck.She runs from you if she thinks you're gonna catch her, but the second a rope is around her neck, she's good as gold about being caught and she's a pretty good riding horse, just timid and nervous.
> 
> ...


I'd also be very concerned with the mare's ground behavior in light of a possible foal. If she is bred, and if something were to happen as an emergency, would it be impossible to catch her and get her help? And when the foal is born (if there is a foal), it seems like a mare with those behaviors would be very dangerous to be around. Add a newborn into the mix and her not wanting to be caught/being evasive might turn into aggression.

If your cousin doesn't have the ability to mess with her, then perhaps you should be working on her ground manners in case she is bred? Or maybe your cousin should think about rehoming the mare since she has so much going on in her personal life and cannot afford her care. =(

Someone else could have her properly vet checked and make sure everything is fine and that both are healthy. 

But I don't agree that ALL of these situations are able to be avoided. I've seen some determined horses get out of good fencing and I've seen some crappy fencing hold them in! haha


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> I'd also be very concerned with the mare's ground behavior in light of a possible foal. If she is bred, and if something were to happen as an emergency, would it be impossible to catch her and get her help? And when the foal is born (if there is a foal), it seems like a mare with those behaviors would be very dangerous to be around. Add a newborn into the mix and her not wanting to be caught/being evasive might turn into aggression.
> 
> If your cousin doesn't have the ability to mess with her, then perhaps you should be working on her ground manners in case she is bred? Or maybe your cousin should think about rehoming the mare since she has so much going on in her personal life and cannot afford her care. =(
> 
> ...


IMO...stud horses should be in a stall...in the barn.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

ThirteenAcres said:


> But I don't agree that ALL of these situations are able to be avoided. I've seen some determined horses get out of good fencing and I've seen some crappy fencing hold them in! haha


Yes, sometimes horses will get out, but the lutalyse shot is always an option upon the occurrence of (what at least should be) an extremely rare mishap.

I understand that the mare's owner in this particular situation did not want to use the shot, and that is not the OP's decision to make. However, I am nonetheless frustrated that the mare's owner did not want to have the shot administered but also does not appear to want to give this mare any care in case the cover did result in the mare being bred.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ripper said:


> IMO...stud horses should be in a stall...in the barn.


Agreed! But I have also heard of studs escaping stalls in barns. Our "stud stall" has a reinforced panel back and planks that go all the way to the ceiling. lol

I saw a stud enclosure today that looked like it could hold a t-rex.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Agreed! But I have also heard of studs escaping stalls in barns. Our "stud stall" has a reinforced panel back and planks that go all the way to the ceiling. lol
> 
> I saw a stud enclosure today that looked like it could hold a t-rex.


Still a stall sure slows them down.

Most studs IMO should be gelded.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Ripper said:


> IMO...stud horses should be in a stall...in the barn.


And it usually works really well. Until one day when I had a 2 year old filly open her paddock, open the stud's stall, let him out and she went in his stall and he went out to tease the mares outside. She wasn't in heat, just causing trouble at the barn LOL (and none of the mares were bred from that one time occurrance)


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ripper said:


> Still a stall sure slows them down.
> 
> Most studs IMO should be gelded.


Agreed!

However, irrelevant to the OP up until the first incident. I totally understand financial situations, but I also know that there is NEVER a time in owning a horse that there isn't a chance something is going to happen requiring vet care. Regardless of why it happened or what could have been done, the mare's care now is the important thing and getting the stud gelded asap.

I know the university here actually does discounted geldings. They have a wait list, but it is well worth it. Not sure if that is an option for you, but you could check into programs in your area for your boy.

As far as the mare goes, it really sounds like your cousin should consider not owning horses if she's not willing (as she turned down you paying for the shot) to get her horse the best care.

But then again, that is also when people are most stubborn about owning their animals.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Ripper said:


> IMO...stud horses should be in a stall...in the barn.


So..studs should have no turnout?

Regardless, I can see where both everyone one else and the OP is coming from. The OP probably shouldn't have taken in yet another horse (the stud, aka "gelding") if she can't afford vet care in an emergency. That's clearly a moot point though as she now has a stud on her hands (for who knows how long) and multiple mares than can (and may have, obviously) gotten bred by said "gelding". I do think she was right to take the 10 minutes she did to fix the fence to ensure that the rest of the herd was contained. Someone else might have went another route and tied up the stud, but that could've been a problem in itself with a determined mare following him around.
I also think the owner of this mare is completely irresponsible for not vetting, selling, or giving away the mare. If you cannot take proper care of a horse, you should not have it. It sucks if she all of a sudden got into a tight spot and was just hoping nothing would go wrong while she got back on her feet, but, IMO, I would've gone hungry a few days in order to abort a possible foal and keep my mare, or give her away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Also, am I understanding the timeline incorrectly, or is it not just a case of ONE mare being possibly bred, but since he was pastured with all the mares prior, it could be 4 and only 1 had a second exposure? Or has he been separated for more than the time has passed for the other mares to have foaled?


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## kartmom67 (Jan 25, 2012)

I always thought it took a special type of facilty and/or fencing to keep a stallion. I am amazed at the number of people who own stallions. I once imported an absolutely jaw dropping stallion prospect from Germany and upon realizing he would be too much horse for my current facility as a stallion, I decided to geld him and use him as a jaw dropping competition horse instead. If any horse should have remained a stallion it should have been him and even I didn't consider it. The risk was too high. What are people thinking having all these stallions running around? Not just addressing the op, but horse owners in general? Yikes!


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Iseul said:


> So..studs should have no turnout?
> 
> Regardless, I can see where both everyone one else and the OP is coming from. The OP probably shouldn't have taken in yet another horse (the stud, aka "gelding") if she can't afford vet care in an emergency. That's clearly a moot point though as she now has a stud on her hands (for who knows how long) and multiple mares than can (and may have, obviously) gotten bred by said "gelding". I do think she was right to take the 10 minutes she did to fix the fence to ensure that the rest of the herd was contained. Someone else might have went another route and tied up the stud, but that could've been a problem in itself with a determined mare following him around.
> I also think the owner of this mare is completely irresponsible for not vetting, selling, or giving away the mare. If you cannot take proper care of a horse, you should not have it. It sucks if she all of a sudden got into a tight spot and was just hoping nothing would go wrong while she got back on her feet, but, IMO, I would've gone hungry a few days in order to abort a possible foal and keep my mare, or give her away.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I turned mine out in a round pen.

To do it over he would have been gelded.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

kartmom67 said:


> I always thought it took a special type of facilty and/or fencing to keep a stallion. I am amazed at the number of people who own stallions. I once imported an absolutely jaw dropping stallion prospect from Germany and upon realizing he would be too much horse for my current facility as a stallion, I decided to geld him and use him as a jaw dropping competition horse instead. If any horse should have remained a stallion it should have been him and even I didn't consider it. The risk was too high. What are people thinking having all these stallions running around? Not just addressing the op, but horse owners in general? Yikes!


That's a huge pet peeve of mine. I recently went to check out a couple of weanlings from a "breeder" locally and found this lady to have the most terrible, nightmare-inspiring "facility" I'd ever seen. She had SIX stallions on her, at max, 8 acre property that were actively breeding and kept in pastures next to one another OR together. One stud, she explained, was shredded and could barely walk on his hip due to a fight with another stud. To make matters worse, the foals had a lot of problems you could see they'd inherited from their sire (these foals were siblings), and the mares were in absolute disgusting conditions, skinny, and several were walking on their overgrown hooves.

We called the local sheriff to make a report. I felt sooo sad for those babies. I wanted to take them all home. I hope that if they are seized, we can adopt a couple and give them a real life.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

There's more to just housing a stallion, there's also training the stallion's natural instincts. I went to view the facility where Lily's sire was kept. Not only do they have a completely separate barn and pens for the stallions, but the owner also made sure to reinforce when it was time to breed, and when it wasn't. The only time the stallion was allowed to act "studly" was when he was near the mounting dummy, or being teased near the mounting dummy. Whenever he acted like a stallion in his stall or in the pasture (and by "acting", I mean displaying his penis), she put on this device around his flank with a bristly brush underneath, that would poke his erection. The horse knew the time and the place for that "business", and associated unpleasant feelings whenever he did it otherwise. :/


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

I grew up on a qh breeding farm and took over completely about 7 years ago. We had seperate stalls/barns/paddocks for the only 2 stallions we had during my lifetime. They were trained with certain head halters was time to breed. Unless that harnes was placed on them they were not to act studdish. Shortly after I took over though one passed away at 29 years old (had been retired a while) and the other I gelded and currently still have him. Now we only breed to outside stallions who have shown and earned their rights to breed. AND after 2009 no mares have been covered here until these with this rogue stallion from the neighbors. I am wanting to slack off breeding and focus on rescuing and training and adopting out now! I agree most stallions out there should be gelded...but it's the same in the animal world. People breeding dogs and cats they sure shouldn't be with the thousands being killed in shelters and on our roads EVERYDAY!


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

kassierae said:


> You can't afford a vet....what if something goes wrong? Then what?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't afford a vet right now. I'm in college and am currently jobles but as soon as finals areover (this week, I think), I'm going job-hunting and know of several places that are hiring rght now. I actually pretty much have a job already... I put an application at a place I really want to work at in earlier this year and the people said to call when I get out of college and we'll work out the details because they are always needing at least summer help. 

I'm hoping to save some money this summer so I can have money for emergencies.



kitten_Val said:


> Why couldn't you just tie him somewhere or hold him while you are putting a temp fix on fence?
> 
> Don't want to jump on bandwagon, but who's fault that your fencing isn't good enough? Horses do kick, lean on fences, rub on fences, etc. Sometime very rough. I'd expect the fence to be sturdy enough to hold up to all that. And if it's not than it's a fault of the owner of the fence.


I didn't even have his halter and lead rode with me when this happened. I wasn't expecting the fencing to break because it was barbed wire and hog wire and had held strong for years...

Also, the place I have my horses at belongs to my great grandmother and her sons are supposed to be the ones who work on the fences and keep them up. I do my best to do what I can, but nowadays they won't do any fence-work and won't even buy wire so I can fix the fences. I've been having to rig our fences when I find a strand down or something because I don't have the money for wire and neither does my great grandmother. She relies on her sons to keep everything up.



ThirteenAcres said:


> I'd also be very concerned with the mare's ground behavior in light of a possible foal. If she is bred, and if something were to happen as an emergency, would it be impossible to catch her and get her help? And when the foal is born (if there is a foal), it seems like a mare with those behaviors would be very dangerous to be around. Add a newborn into the mix and her not wanting to be caught/being evasive might turn into aggression.
> 
> If your cousin doesn't have the ability to mess with her, then perhaps you should be working on her ground manners in case she is bred? Or maybe your cousin should think about rehoming the mare since she has so much going on in her personal life and cannot afford her care. =(
> 
> ...


I won't say it would be impossible to get her caught if something happens, but it would take about fifteen minutes to half an hour. She's not a bad horse, she's just not very trusting. She has been abused in the past when my cousin boarded her at a 'trainers' and she's not been the same since then. She's never been aggressive, but I can see where you're coming from. I'm going to make it a point to start trying to at least get her to where she'll let me catch her more easily and all.



ThirteenAcres said:


> Agreed!
> 
> However, irrelevant to the OP up until the first incident. I totally understand financial situations, but I also know that there is NEVER a time in owning a horse that there isn't a chance something is going to happen requiring vet care. Regardless of why it happened or what could have been done, the mare's care now is the important thing and getting the stud gelded asap.
> 
> ...


I know my cousin. She absolutely refuses to sell this mare. The mare was given to her as a young foal to try and save and raise (shed been shot in the shoulder as a foal and it was unlikely she'd survive) and my cousin nursed her back to health and raised her. I've offered to buy this horse, and so has my cousin's brother and she's refused us both. She won't rehome this mare at all.

As for my stallion, he's a cryptorchid, so I don't know if universities would do that, and as soon as I get the 400/500 dollars for the surgery (which should be sometime in the next few months) he'll be gelded. That's my main priority.



Iseul said:


> So..studs should have no turnout?
> 
> Regardless, I can see where both everyone one else and the OP is coming from. The OP probably shouldn't have taken in yet another horse (the stud, aka "gelding") if she can't afford vet care in an emergency. That's clearly a moot point though as she now has a stud on her hands (for who knows how long) and multiple mares than can (and may have, obviously) gotten bred by said "gelding". I do think she was right to take the 10 minutes she did to fix the fence to ensure that the rest of the herd was contained. Someone else might have went another route and tied up the stud, but that could've been a problem in itself with a determined mare following him around.
> 
> ...


I prolly shouldn't have taken him in, I know... btat the time, I was literally the last chance for his then-owners, who had been trying to sell him for about a ear and couldn't get him sold, so they asked me if I just wanted him for free. If I hadn't taken him in, he prolly would have gone to a not-great home and, when found out that he was a stud (crypt. or not), prolly would have purposely been used for breeding purposes...



ThirteenAcres said:


> Also, am I understanding the timeline incorrectly, or is it not just a case of ONE mare being possibly bred, but since he was pastured with all the mares prior, it could be 4 and only 1 had a second exposure? Or has he been separated for more than the time has passed for the other mares to have foaled?


He was pastured with all four mares and my gelding for roughly a year and a half before he dropped. Out of the other mares, none of them are preggers, I can say thatpretty surely. My mare definately isn't, I know that for a fact. My gelding is super protective of my mare and never let Jaxxon anywhere close to her. My uncle's 15-ish year old mare likewise didn't let Jax near her. She'd run him off and beat him up whenever he got near her, and my uncle's other mare never kept company near Jax. My cousin's mare was the only one that he buddied up to.

He's only been seperated from them for about four and a half months, but no-one ever saw him cover any of the other mares but saw him cover Patch once back last summer. Unless he did it at night, then he didn't cover any of the other mares. We have family living all around the pasture and they would have definately seen it if he'd covered any of the other mares.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sorry but unless someone was watching them 24 hours a day you can_not_ say for a fact that he didn't cover and possibly impregnate any of the other mares that were pastured with him.


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

Well....if he did cover that mare in the summer then she would be due this summer not winter....or did I misread something?


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

ladytaurean515 said:


> Well....if he did cover that mare in the summer then she would be due this summer not winter....or did I misread something?


I am also confused by the "summer or winter" -- makes it seem like there may be more than one "accidental" breeding incident


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Let me re-explain...

He covered her once back last summer, but I checked him down below, and there was no evidence of him being a stud (aka, no balls). I put it off to him being proud-cut, but kept checking him just in case, because I sort of felt a little unnerved about him covering the mare. 

Around December, I found a testicle on one of my checks and removed him from the pasture and into another one.

Mid-January, I brought him down to the house to work with him and groom him, and the same mare he covered back last summer broke through the fence and got in with him. While I fixed the fence (to keep him from getting with the other mares and to keep the other mares from coming through the fence as well) he covered the mare twice.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Yes, but if she was possibly bred last summer, so were the other mares. Just because you did not see him cover them does not mean it never happened.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

If the other mares were bred last summer, it would be obvious. They're not fat at all... besides looking sleek from the grass... sleek, not fat. Last summer, he wasn't even dropped when he was mounting Patch. He only dropped in December.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Bumping - did you ever have the mare checked?


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## horsemomma (Jun 23, 2012)

i am waiting on my vet to come out my mare i have had for 2 months bagged up and her calcium was high ph got lower then her ph went back up and calcium came down.so i pretty much think she is preggers and about to foal in about 4 weeks


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

horsemomma said:


> i am waiting on my vet to come out my mare i have had for 2 months bagged up and her calcium was high ph got lower then her ph went back up and calcium came down.so i pretty much think she is preggers and about to foal in about 4 weeks


Welcome to the forum, horsemomma - you will find you can get better feedback by starting your own threads rather than tagging in on someone else's.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Britt, a vet needs to check her for twins. It's rare, but not something you'll want to find out the day of the foaling, as both will likely die if one isn't aborted earlier.

As far as the other mares not being bred, many mares don't look pregnant until they're far into their pregnancies. Someone (Piaffe I believe?) had a mare this year that didn't look bred almost until she foaled.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I thought this thread was dead.


I will say it again, the mare doesn't belong to me. Her owners did not want a shot to abort, which I offered to pay for. They don't even come out here anymore at the moment (family issues that I won't go in to), and I can't afford to pay for the mare to be checked due to dealing with problems with my own horses. That and I'm not going against the mare's owners and possibly getting sued or causing a family fight because I didn't respect their wishes.

The mare's owners have been told what they need to know and what they should do. The fact that they won't do what they should do isn't my problem. They have been educated about the risks and their decision is to just let it go and see what happened. The mare isn't mine and I can't justify spending they type of money on a horse that isn't mine when my own three horses need things.

The stallion is seperated and I'm planning on gelding when it turns into early fall and the bugs aren't out as bad.

Though I am beginning to wonder if my younger cousin's mare may be bred... she's gotten really fat, but she's also a super slender horse, so even a litle 'grass belly' on her makes her look almost preggers, lol...

My other cousin did, by accident, put all the mares and my gelding in with my stud back before school ended. The horses were out and she had to get her daughter to school and it slipped her mind that Jax was a stud. They were only in with him for about 45 minutes, but still... I didn't hear about it until just a few weeks ago when she finally up and told me about her mistake... Though it was a hoest mistake... she was in a hurry trying to get her daughter to school and the horses were out, she was just tryin to put them up, and just put them in the wrong pasture...


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Why is it that these horses seem to be getting "out " Sounds like some more adequate fencing is in order!:-(


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

Oh man! Sounds like a pretty bad situation!! Possibly having all those mares bred by a grade stud. Not having money... Etc
I just purchased a mare and just found out she is having a foal in September. I will then have three horses as I've also got a gelding. Three is going to be over the top expensive! But that is why I found a good job and work. We could make it just fine off my husbands salary but I need extra money for my horses if 
A bad situation is to arise and I need an emergency fund. I understand not having the money to care for a horse and I had to sell my yearlings a couple years back because I was single and had lost my job. I couldn't provide the best for them so I found them hood homes that could!
I hope you have a job and can take care of gelding your horse and I pray he didn't cover all those mares or yours.
Goodluck to you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

> Why is it that these horses seem to be getting "out " Sounds like some more adequate fencing is in order!:sad:


Our fencing isn't the best in the big pasture (where the mares and my gelding and cows are kept) but I do try to keep it fixed up the best I can. It's not my fault that the men in my family won't get out and work on it.

The fencing my stallion is in is good. His pasture was just fenced in a few years ago and it is strong and able to keep animals in easily. 

The reason the horses get out so much is due to my older cousin. He moved a house trailer in just inside the pasture, very near to our biggest gate, and seems to think that he can just leave the gate open at night to make it easy for him to leave in the mornings. He was supposed to fence his 'home' out and all, but never has and I've personally seen the gate left open several times, and everytime I confront him over it, he does nothing and says that it's not his fault the animals escape and it's not his responsibility either.




> Oh man! Sounds like a pretty bad situation!! Possibly having all those mares bred by a grade stud. Not having money... Etc
> I just purchased a mare and just found out she is having a foal in September. I will then have three horses as I've also got a gelding. Three is going to be over the top expensive! But that is why I found a good job and work. We could make it just fine off my husbands salary but I need extra money for my horses if
> A bad situation is to arise and I need an emergency fund. I understand not having the money to care for a horse and I had to sell my yearlings a couple years back because I was single and had lost my job. I couldn't provide the best for them so I found them hood homes that could!
> I hope you have a job and can take care of gelding your horse and I pray he didn't cover all those mares or yours.
> Goodluck to you


Yeah, it's not an ideal situation. That's why i'm having my boy gelded this fall, once I save up the money. It's gonna cost several hundred dollars because he's a crypt., and I only get paid about 200 a week, and I'm aso having to buy stuff for my horses hooves (WLD and Thrush), buy gas for the car to get to work and home, and I'm having to buy other things to get my car fixed and am helping my great-g-ma pay for groceries, etc...

I hope he didn't cover all the mares, either... My own mare is 18 and on a joint supplement, my great uncle's mares are a 25 year old 'nag' (lol) and a stunted 5 year old, and the one that I'm sure is bred is a 12-14-ish year old pinto that belongs to my cousin.

I'm not too worried about my own mare being bred... my gelding (her son) is super protective over her and doesn't let other horses around her easily (besides our other mares) and he's never liked my stud and has always ran him off when they have been pastured together...


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## vikki92 (Dec 18, 2010)

Sounds to me like you need to find out what mares are prego and then sell the ones that are not prego that may get you some money to pay to get your stud gelded and some money for the prego mare/mares. or maybe you should just rehome all of them sense you dont have the money to take care of any of them.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

vikki92 said:


> Sounds to me like you need to find out what mares are prego and then sell the ones that are not prego that may get you some money to pay to get your stud gelded and some money for the prego mare/mares. or maybe you should just rehome all of them sense you dont have the money to take care of any of them.


Let me re-explain the mares ownership situations.

My great uncle owns two mares. 25 year od Buttercup and 5 year old Nugget. Nugget basically belongs to his oldest granddaughter and Buttercup is 'said to belong to' his middle granddaughter. Neither of them will go anywhere because he sees the horses as his grandkids horses and won't sell or give them away because it would upset his grandkids.

14-ish year old Patch belongs to my great uncle's daughter (the mother of his granddaughters). She won't go anywhere because her owner refuses to sell her, give her away, etc...

My mare Gypsie and her son Dakota (my gelding) obiousy belong to me. Gypsie was my first horse and is now retired permanently at 18 years old. She will not be rehomed. Dakota was a gift from my father figure and great uncle who is now dead. He will not be rehomed.

The only horse I would consider rehoming is my stallion, but I would love to just get him gelded when I get all the money and just keep him because he has such a great and calm mindset and is great for anyone to ride, even though he's what I call greenbroke. I do have him posted for sale at the moment, but I am hesitant to actually sell him. Regardless, if i keep him, he will be gelded within the next two months or so.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I don't particularly like being attacked when this was not my fault. I did what I felt was best at the time this stuff happened and offered to pay for abortion shots, etc... 

My cousin putting the mares in with Jax wn't anyones fault because I wasn't around and she was in a hurry and forgot some details. The fencing around our pasture isn't my fault since i try my best to keepit up.

Anyway, about to head to work, so I'll check this when get in tonight at nine.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Britt said:


> It's not my fault that the men in my family won't get out and work on it.


It is your fault that you can't be bothered to do it yourself. Fence fixing isn't "man's work." You can do it, too. 

But I suppose that would get in the way of whining about how nothing is your fault...


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

Males continuously create new sperm, unlike females which carry a set number of eggs. Likely, the sperm which was created and stored in the testicle while it was in his abdomin would be compromised. However, by the time he bred her again, he would have new, effective sperm. 

Long story short, the mare should have been luted. It would have been the responsible thing to do. 

What happens if the baby is a colt and it inherits the sire's defect? Will there be money to have it fixed which will cost much more than a normal horse? 

The whole thing sounds fishy. More could have been done to prevent another grade baby, with the potential to inherit an expensive condition, out of a sire that, admittedly, doesn't have the best conformation.


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

DraftXDressage said:


> It is your fault that you can't be bothered to do it yourself. Fence fixing isn't "man's work." You can do it, too.
> 
> But I suppose that would get in the way of whining about how nothing is your fault...


She said she does fix it but I assume not being finically stable that she can't just go out and buy the proper fencing at any given moment . She also stated the possible stud is in a well fenced in enclosure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arrowsaway (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm sorry you're having to deal with the irresponsibility of others. What happened was an honest mistake, but your family members really made things worse when they declined to abort any possible pregnancies.
I understand having to save money first - worry about your own end of things. Keep Jaxx contained and keep working towards that gelding, and let others sort out their own mess. They've made their bed, now they gotta lie in it. 


If the mares are pregnant, here's to save deliveries and healthy babies...


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

DraftXDressage said:


> It is your fault that you can't be bothered to do it yourself. Fence fixing isn't "man's work." You can do it, too.
> 
> But I suppose that would get in the way of whining about how nothing is your fault...


I know it's not a man's job to fix the fences. You didn't read what I wrote. I do fix the fences the best I can with what I can. I can't afford to buy the fencing when I'm dealing with my own things. The fencing has always been bought by my g-gma's sons and I usually work on the fences nowadays. However, there has been no new barbed wire bought in several years so I'm having to rig it the best I can when it breaks because I cannot afford to buy more due to my own financial problems/car problems/horse issues going on.



grayshell38 said:


> Males continuously create new sperm, unlike females which carry a set number of eggs. Likely, the sperm which was created and stored in the testicle while it was in his abdomin would be compromised. However, by the time he bred her again, he would have new, effective sperm.
> 
> Long story short, the mare should have been luted. It would have been the responsible thing to do.
> 
> ...


Lomg story short, the mares do not belong to me besides one. I'm not going to go against the mare owners wishes and have a possible lawsuit on my hands, because, even though they are my family, I don't doubt that if they knew they could do it and get away with it, they would try to sue me over something like luting their mares.

If the foal is a colt and inherts the sire's problem, we will deal with that when it gets here.

And just what could have been done to prevent this? I'd really like to know. The mare broke in the fence when I had that stud at the yard working with him. I could have either A) did what I did and let her stay with him and fix the fence or B) I couls have gotten her out immediately,and risked either him going through the fence and getting to the other mares or the other mares coming through to him. I di not have a halter and lead with me or on him at the time, as I was free-lunging him.



Jewelsb said:


> She said she does fix it but I assume not being finically stable that she can't just go out and buy the proper fencing at any given moment . She also stated the possible stud is in a well fenced in enclosure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for that. Yes, that is true, and yes, Jaxxon is in a well fenced pasture. He's actually in my other great uncle's pasture and that pasture was just fenced in a few years ago and the fencing is very strong and sturdy. And he does have cow buddies and sometimes I put my gelding in with him to give him another buddy, as when it's just him and the gelding, they get along, but anything else and the gelding beats up on Jax.



arrowsaway said:


> I'm sorry you're having to deal with the irresponsibility of others. What happened was an honest mistake, but your family members really made things worse when they declined to abort any possible pregnancies.
> I understand having to save money first - worry about your own end of things. Keep Jaxx contained and keep working towards that gelding, and let others sort out their own mess. They've made their bed, now they gotta lie in it.
> 
> 
> If the mares are pregnant, here's to save deliveries and healthy babies...


Amen. Thanks. I'm keeping an eye on the mares I think may be preggers (my cousin's pinto who I am sure is preggers and my great uncle's chestnut who I am beginning to possibly think she might be bred due to her weight and attitude change... both mares are extremely in your face wanna be petted and loved on, when usually the pinto is standoffish and spooky and the chestnut is usually just a pest and wants to be a brat...) and so far they seem healthy. All the horses are healthy and happy.



At least the stud isn't built horribly, though. and the pinto mare isn't bad at all, though the chestnut mare is probably our worst-built, but she's not too bad, just slender and little mostly, though her neck is short.



I'll get pictures of them on my next off day (later this week, around Thursday or Friday) and make another thread.


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

Looking forward to the new pictures!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Britt, sounds as if you are trying to patch fencing that needs to be replaced.
That is a lot of work and expense.
I also noticed that you posted about having barbed wire for fencing.
I have no problem with that.
With over 3,000 acres here 99% of it is barbed wire.
However the stallion has his own 3 acre pen that is made of metal pipe.
This is due to the nature of stallions trying to paw the fence and test them to investigate the mares..
If you haven't had a problem with this good.
Sounds like an acceident waiting to happen.
We have never had a bad injury due to barbed wire here but we also do not crowd our horses and keep them in pastures of at least 15 acres or more. Good luck
Shalom


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> Britt, sounds as if you are trying to patch fencing that needs to be replaced.
> That is a lot of work and expense.
> I also noticed that you posted about having barbed wire for fencing.
> I have no problem with that.
> ...


Yes, I'll agree, the fencing does need to be replaced, and I would do it if I had the money to buy all the supplies, but I don't therefore I try to keep it patched up the best I can. My great uncle Louis died in 2007, and he was the one who really cared and kept things up around here. I try to do what I can, but it's not easy.

We have barbed wire because it's not as expensive and is the only thing that we can keep our cows fenced in with. Our cows will go through a regular fence, lol... but even with it being cheaper than other types of fencing, I still do not have that sort of money.

Our horses are pastured in a 50 acre pasture with cows and a donkey. The stallion is pastured in 15 acres with a few cows for company. I've never had a problem with him pawing at the fencing or pawing in general. 

I have, however, had a few pretty bad injuries due to our fencing with my horses and the other horses in general. I wish we had another sort of fencing, but we don't. so I just make due and keep peroxide, alcohol, blue spray, triodine, etc... in the barn, though thankfully the horses don't come in injured very often an it's usually just a scratch if they do.

The stallion will be gelded as soon as I get the money and it cools off.

also, I looked over the other mare I thought might have been preggers and I think it's just a grass belly. If she was bred, it would have been before the pinto was bred by at least two months, so she would be roughly seven or eight months along, and she's nowhere near the size of the pinto (the other mare is very slender built and even a grass belly makes her look huge, lol).


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I am not trying to sound rude, just trying to figure this all out. Is this some sort of family compound or something? Who owns this property? It seems like you have the entire world, along with their animals living there, and noone knows anything (including not putting mares with a stallion) but you. 

I would suggest (a) you are overhorsed and underpaid. Until you can afford them, you should downsize. JMHO Put on your big girl panties and do what needs to be done and stop being selfish. Rehome some of them.(b) until such time as the stallion is gelded or sold, NOONE should put any other horse in his pasture. Period. That should just be a rule. If you have to make charts or something to help those who help care for them, so be it. But he should be by himself. ALWAYS. That will avoid the confusion.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I agree that cattle are best contained within barbed wire.
We have over a 100 head and they are hard on fences.
With finances being limited you will have to work with what you have.
Good luck but I would still not be too certain that the mare is not bred.
I have had 2 resuces foal this year and until the last month both only looked fat. Not all mares look the same while carrying a foal.
If you can afford it a vet would be a good idea. Shalom


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> I am not trying to sound rude, just trying to figure this all out. Is this some sort of family compound or something? Who owns this property? It seems like you have the entire world, along with their animals living there, and noone knows anything (including not putting mares with a stallion) but you.
> 
> I would suggest (a) you are overhorsed and underpaid. Until you can afford them, you should downsize. JMHO Put on your big girl panties and do what needs to be done and stop being selfish. Rehome some of them.(b) until such time as the stallion is gelded or sold, NOONE should put any other horse in his pasture. Period. That should just be a rule. If you have to make charts or something to help those who help care for them, so be it. But he should be by himself. ALWAYS. That will avoid the confusion.


Don't worry, I don't find it rude. I answer, yes, I guess it would be considered a 'family compound'. 

I live with my great grandmother, and she owns fifty acres. 

Her oldest son David (and his oldest son Jamie and youngest son Earl) and her youngest son Willie and his wife Martha (and his oldest son Willie Joe, wife Kim, and kids Makenzie, Madalynn, & Mason) live on the land as well.

My great grandmother's youngest son (Willie) owns land across the road and has 15 acres fenced in. On his land lives his daughter Tracey (and her husband Joe and their kids Alyssa, Danielle, & Wesley). Also I have several cousins who live on this land as well.

My great grandmother's oldest son David owns two of the horses, though if you asked him, he'd say that his two oldest granddaughters own the horses (the granddaughters are in their teens). David had a logging accident last year and cannot work anymore. He's crippled and can't even walk right now, but he will not get rid of his two horses because he has them for his granddaughters.

David's oldest son cannot do anyhing with the horses or fence because he's also crippled from a car wreck several years ago. David's youngest son could help out, but he's a jackass about things and would rather pick fights and blame others for things that he does rather than help out around here. Earl also has a son now and refuses to do much of anything to help anymore... (not that he ever did anything to help in the first place).

My geat grandmother's youngest son and his wife aren't horsey people and the same goes for his son and family and his daughter and family. The most they ever do is bush-hog the pasture every now and then.

My uncle David's only daughter is the owner of the pinto mare who is bred. She lives in another county and rarely comes out, but also refuses to sell or even give away the mare because of emotional attachment.

So now, it basically is me, myself, and I...

Personally, I'm not overhorsed. I can afford my own three, which is what I'm doing. Those three are my responsibilities. The other horses aren't my responsibilities, and even though they aren't, I do sometimes buy things like wormer for them and all, but I cannot afford to buy them everything they need.

The stallion is kept by himself with a few cows for company right now. I sometimes have to put my gelding in with him as my cousin Earl gets mad and pitches a fit over my gelding (he majorly dislikes my gelding). When he gets bad enough about pitching a fit over Dakota,I remove him from the bg pasture and put him with my stallion because otherwise i fear for Dakota's safety, as Earl isn't above hitting the horses in the face or worse if he gets angry enough... though he knows that if I ever catch him doing anything to the horses because he's upset, **** will hit the fan (pardon the language, lol).



dbarabians said:


> I agree that cattle are best contained within barbed wire.
> We have over a 100 head and they are hard on fences.
> With finances being limited you will have to work with what you have.
> Good luck but I would still not be too certain that the mare is not bred.
> ...


I'm going to keep an eye on the other mare. I could afford a vet for my own horses, but as this mare isn't mine and her owner won't pay for a vet visit, etc... I'll have to go on gut instincts... just like with the pinto mare. I'm trying to save money to geld my stallion, lol.


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## horsefan3000 (Jun 13, 2012)

i agree with kassierae


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Maybe you've already answered this, but why do you not just sell the stud? You have no money for gelding much less emergency care, and the fencing is completely inadequate for him. Sounds like it'd be safer for ALL the horses to get him to someone who has the funds to geld


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## Misty'sGirl (Oct 22, 2007)

Britt said:


> Personally, I'm not overhorsed. *I can afford my own three,* which is what I'm doing. Those three are my responsibilities. The other horses aren't my responsibilities, and even though they aren't, I do sometimes buy things like wormer for them and all, but I cannot afford to buy them everything they need.
> 
> 
> I'm going to keep an eye on the other mare. I could afford a vet for my own horses, but as this mare isn't mine and her owner won't pay for a vet visit, etc... I'll have to go on gut instincts... just like with the pinto mare. *I'm trying to save money to geld my stallion,* lol.


Wait, what? You can afford your horses, but you can't afford to geld one? How is that "able to afford" them? That includes all their care. I'm not having a go at you, your situation is awful and I'm sorry, I just don't understand why you say you can afford your horses but you can't afford to geld one :?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I see no problem with the OP saving money to geld her colt.
Lots of people need to plan and put money aside before having something like this done.
At least the horse is getting fed and taken care of and the OP is taking precautions. Shalom


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Misty'sGirl said:


> Wait, what? You can afford your horses, but you can't afford to geld one? How is that "able to afford" them? That includes all their care. I'm not having a go at you, your situation is awful and I'm sorry, I just don't understand why you say you can afford your horses but you can't afford to geld one :?


Actually, if I wasn't having to spend money right now on thrush and white line medication and plug wires for my car, I could afford to have him gelded right now. My vet will even do a payment plan for me, but I'm also not going to geld right now. It's way too hot and because of bgs and all, I'm waiting until around maybe late August/early September to geld.



dbarabians said:


> I see no problem with the OP saving money to geld her colt.
> Lots of people need to plan and put money aside before having something like this done.
> At least the horse is getting fed and taken care of and the OP is taking precautions. Shalom


Yes. I was putting aside money with each paycheck, but then I had to use a lot of what I had put aside for WLD and thrush medication, car parts, etc... I'm also helping my great grandmother buy groceries and things like that now. I'm still putting aside money, though. I have about half put aside right now. 



> Maybe you've already answered this, but why do you not just sell the stud? You have no money for gelding much less emergency care, and the fencing is completely inadequate for him. Sounds like it'd be safer for ALL the horses to get him to someone who has the funds to geld


I do have him up for sale, but I am really hesitant to actually sell him because once gelded, I really wanna keep him... i really want to keep him in general, he's such a great minded horse and is so good... I also am hesitant to sell because my mare has had to be permanently retired and if I sell him, then that would only leave me with one horse to ride and as a trail rider, I like to have at least two riding horses in case one comes in lame or something...


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> I see no problem with the OP saving money to geld her colt.
> Lots of people need to plan and put money aside before having something like this done.
> At least the horse is getting fed and taken care of and the OP is taking precautions. Shalom


I see plenty of problems with her saving money to geld. The safety of the horses is a HUGE problem. Nothing like a mare or stallion tearing down BARBED wire to get together. I can only imagine in 4 months when it's happened again she'll be back here with a post asking how to care for barbed wire cuts because she's got no money.

In all honesty it sounds like you just love the idea of owning a stallion.Buy some pipe fencing, and keep him safe. Good luck to you


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I know how to care for barbed wire cuts. Believe me, out here, we've definately had our share of barbed wire cuts. however, I also do not see any problem with barbed wire fencing. It's cheaper than other fencing and holds up well. If I had the money to buy another type of fencing, I would if it was possible, but I don't own the property and therefore can't do anything about the fencing besides try to keep it up.

how is there a problem with me saving up to geld? I'm not the only person out there who has to save money and pinch at times for my horses. If Jax wasn't a crypt, I would have had the money a while back because it's not very expensive to geld a regular-dropped horse, but he's a crypt and I'm having to save the several hundred dollars. That money isn't something I have just flowing out the bank. 

And honestly, I hate owning a stallion. It's a hassle and I dislike havng to keep him in another pasture. He will be gelded as soon as I get all the money saved up and when Autumn hits.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

The horse is a crypt.
Disposing of him by selling him at auction or elsewhere will most likely result in his value being so little that he would end up at slaughter.
Or with someone who would not have a problem with breeding a crypt.
The OP is doing the best she can.
If she had support from her family members she could prevent further problems.
Lots of people have to save to be able to afford elective surgery for the horse.
She is making an effort, doing the best she knows how, and the horse is fed. What more can she do.
There comes a time when we must accept the reality of the situation and hope for the best.
Trying to predict the future never works. Neither does worrying about it.
Good luck. Shalom


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

dbarabians said:


> The horse is a crypt.
> "Disposing of him by selling him at auction or elsewhere will most likely result in his value being so little that he would end up at slaughter.
> Or with someone who would not have a problem with breeding a crypt."
> 
> "Trying to predict the future never works. Neither does worrying about it."


??The first part is doing exactly what the second says not to?? 

I disagree that we should just take a "come what may" attitude when life and decisions get tough. Sure, you shouldn't stress yourself to death, but planning ahead for the _probable outcomes _(meaning, there is proof that the situation could occur. Such as, but not limited to: Horses going through fencing since it's happened before, foal being born and having the same hereditary condition as it's sire,etc...) is in no way a waste of time.


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## ThatDraftGirl (Jun 5, 2012)

With the economy the way it is these days, not everyone has money in the bank or a savings account. A lot of people are living pay check to pay check. The horse market, in my area at least, is also down. Everyone is trying to sell, but not everyone is looking to buy.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

ThatDraftGirl said:


> With the economy the way it is these days, not everyone has money in the bank or a savings account. A lot of people are living pay check to pay check. The horse market, in my area at least, is also down. Everyone is trying to sell, but not everyone is looking to buy.


To me, if you're living pay check to pay check it's time to cut back on your horses. Period. They don't care if you've got enough to pay for a gelding, or er vet call, they only care that if they hurt that you will fix it...


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> The horse is a crypt.
> 
> There comes a time when we must accept the reality of the situation and hope for the best.
> Trying to predict the future never works. Neither does worrying about it.



Sooo, have you planned what will happen to your horses in case of your death? Obviously if you have, you've worried about the future and made plans. Otherwise your horses could/would end up on the one way trip.



And obviously because this mare has NOT seen a vet....and most likely wont, what will happen if she foals in the middle of winter? Or what happens if she foals twins? A simple, extremely cheap vet call would knock those questions out.


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## HeatherGavitt (Jun 8, 2012)

Well here is my two cents for what it is worth. I have a post that was posted because my pony was bred by my AQHA stallion unknown to me. Happened when I was out of town for work. Stallions are unpredictable and it can happen if they are not stalled and complete solitude. I learned my lesson and he is gelded now because I now have a very small pony pregnant by him...you did not know he was a stud at the time, so now he should be kept separate with no chance of this happening again until he is gelded. And worming twice a year in most opinions is far from sufficient. All horses need vaccinations, especially pregnant mares, as to give the baby antibodies. Also even if you can only afford one vaccine, that is better than nothing. A 5 way, with tetanus is recommended. Just do your best and keep your eye on her. Just because you cannot afford all of these things, doesn't mean your a bad owner, just means maybe you should keep an "emergency" fund for times like this. Anyways accidents do happen, that's why they call them that. Good luck with her and best of luck if she is pregnant.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Thanks. 

I think that what a lot of people are missing here is that the mare is NOT MINE. She belongs to my cousin, who rarely comes out and even sees her, but refuses straight up to sell her or give her away.

After the breeding happened, I offered my cousin that I would pay for the shot to abort the foal. She REFUSED.

My cousin hasn't once been out here to see the mare and she's not worried at all about getting a vet to check her, etc... I can not and will not get a vet out behind my cousin's back when she DOESN'T WANT the mare to see a vet because she thinks that everything is fine.

I'm doing the best I can with my hands literally tied by keeping an eye on the mare and doing what I can if I see something wrong (though the only thing wrong right now, IMO, is that she's in desperate need of a trim that she'll probably not get anytime soon as my cousin won't give me the money to pay for a farrier visit, as she thinks that the mare will trim down her hooves on the road when being ridden... forget the fact that she's not been ridden in months and won't be ridden again for at least a few months...).


Bottom point here: My family members aren't the smartest and blow off a lot when it comes to horses. I try to do the best I can with my hands tied (technically, I'm not even supposed to be touching my great-uncle's and cousin's horses because I apparently 'mess them up and make them hard to catch/ride/train, etc...'...)... I'm tryng to do things, though, and I am taking good care of my own three horses, but I'm not going to go off and spend lots of money on horses that aren't even mine and plus, if I did spend money on the other horses, I'd prolly get chewed out and cussed out instead of thanked.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Britt, you sound like a smart, caring person & I hate the thought of you being in this situation surrounded by people who are neither.
This is off topic so please forgive me for being so forward but I feel I must say something.
Your family seems to be stuck in a rut. There are at least 17 people living on a piece of property along with animals who get the minimum of care.
I understand you don't have the financial means to do much now but I really hope you are planning to break the family cycle. 
Are you in school?


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I don't mind the questions, lol. 

I am in college, majoring in English and English/Language Arts Education. I started college two years ago and should be going to the 4-year college this fall, but instead will still be at the 2-year college due to changing majors right in the middle of everything and most of my credits didn't roll-over... so I still have, I think, one math class, four science classes, and three history classes I've got to take before I can transfer, or something like that.

I decided to not to to college this summer, as I needed to find a job so I can afford some things done that my horses need (cryptorchid surgery, etc...), but I will be going back to college once fall semester starts.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Britt, I think this sounds like a bad situation for all involve and its not one you asked to be in. If you are in Alabama have you looked into Auburn University. They have a vet school and might be able have a program that would all you to get your boy gelded for a reduced price. I know some schools do that for dogs and cats to give students experience. It might worth investigating. I know you said the foal will have a home regardless of its arrival or lack of arrival. I think thats a wonderful idea but I am not sure you have the resources to care for it. Cryptochidism or retained testicles can be hereditary. If the foal is a colt will you be able to geld that one as well or will you find yourself in the same situation in a year or two. I know its not your horse and family is well family and that can be hard. It sounds like you are the one who does the stuff no one else thinks about or wants to do. Which means they sort of rely on you to do it and don't have to do it themselves. That's no fun as a situation and difficult to get out of. I hope things work out for you.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Britt said:


> I don't mind the questions, lol.
> 
> I am in college, majoring in English and English/Language Arts Education. I started college two years ago and should be going to the 4-year college this fall, but instead will still be at the 2-year college due to changing majors right in the middle of everything and most of my credits didn't roll-over... so I still have, I think, one math class, four science classes, and three history classes I've got to take before I can transfer, or something like that.
> 
> I decided to not to to college this summer, as I needed to find a job so I can afford some things done that my horses need (cryptorchid surgery, etc...), but I will be going back to college once fall semester starts.


I'm happy you're getting an education as that will be your ticket out. Will you be going into teaching?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Britt, you are trying to make the situation better by planning your future.
You have a lot on your plate for one so young.
do not place such a burden on yourself that your future plans will be placed in jeapordy.
Get some help. Enlist someone you know to help you care for the horses.
Asking for help is not a sign of weakness, It is the bravest thing most of us will ever do.
Remember that.
Good luck for now and in the future. Shalom


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

rookie said:


> Britt, I think this sounds like a bad situation for all involve and its not one you asked to be in. If you are in Alabama have you looked into Auburn University. They have a vet school and might be able have a program that would all you to get your boy gelded for a reduced price. I know some schools do that for dogs and cats to give students experience. It might worth investigating. I know you said the foal will have a home regardless of its arrival or lack of arrival. I think thats a wonderful idea but I am not sure you have the resources to care for it. Cryptochidism or retained testicles can be hereditary. If the foal is a colt will you be able to geld that one as well or will you find yourself in the same situation in a year or two. I know its not your horse and family is well family and that can be hard. It sounds like you are the one who does the stuff no one else thinks about or wants to do. Which means they sort of rely on you to do it and don't have to do it themselves. That's no fun as a situation and difficult to get out of. I hope things work out for you.


The foal will not be mine when it arrives. It's going to belong to either my cousin (the mare's owner) or her little brother (they are already fighting over it...). That's not the greatest situation, but I have a feeling that I will prolly be the one doing the training and most of the riding, probably...

I'm hoping the foal is a filly, not a colt... as it will be me prolly paying for the gelding, etc... if it' a colt because I'm the only one who really seems to care anymore. Hopefully it's a filly, but if it's a colt, I plan to have the money to get it gelded if no one else will.



natisha said:


> I'm happy you're getting an education as that will be your ticket out. Will you be going into teaching?


I want to go into teaching, yes. I had a teacher in grade school who really made a huge impression on me, and I'd love to teach and be as well liked as she was and still is. I want to teach middle/high school or college, though... so I still have anywhere from 4 to 8 years depending on how high I want to ain, and I'd like to go as high as I can.



dbarabians said:


> Britt, you are trying to make the situation better by planning your future.
> You have a lot on your plate for one so young.
> do not place such a burden on yourself that your future plans will be placed in jeapordy.
> Get some help. Enlist someone you know to help you care for the horses.
> ...


I would get some help if anyone out here was willing to actualy help... :? 

Thank you!


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Really hoping some people lay off on this thread. Sounds to me like you did the best you could/can do now. Have you thought about getting a second or better job? I would highly recommend calling your vet. I would give that mare a 5 way, just in case. Tell your cousin she needs it, period!! At least that's a precaution in case she is pregnant. Hoping the best for you and your horses


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## sommsama09 (Oct 28, 2010)

Subbing :smile:


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Army wife said:


> Really hoping some people lay off on this thread. Sounds to me like you did the best you could/can do now. Have you thought about getting a second or better job? I would highly recommend calling your vet. I would give that mare a 5 way, just in case. Tell your cousin she needs it, period!! At least that's a precaution in case she is pregnant. Hoping the best for you and your horses


You do see the irony in bringing the thread back to life just to tell people to lay off the thread, don't you? it had been almost a month since the last post....


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> The horse is a crypt.
> Disposing of him by selling him at auction or elsewhere will most likely result in his value being so little that he would end up at slaughter.
> Or with someone who would not have a problem with breeding a crypt.
> The OP is doing the best she can.
> ...


I agree with db. 

Keep to your plan. Considering your situation, it is the most reasonable course to take. Obviously, there is a difference in gelding a crypt. My vet(s) also recommend gelding when not so hot to minimize risk for infection. Do the best you can and take advice that's useful to you.
Good luck.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

themacpack said:


> You do see the irony in bringing the thread back to life just to tell people to lay off the thread, don't you? it had been almost a month since the last post....


baha...yes ironic, guess i should've looked huh


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## Eclipse295 (Nov 30, 2010)

About not being fertile. Miniature Horse stallions(I know, not a mini but..) have been known to drop as late as 5 years of age and become perfectly normal, functional stallions.(they either only dropped one or didn't drop at all until that age)


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## BurrWoodStableGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

I feel for the situation with your cousin, and hope things will improve. We have a rescued Thoroughbred that is looking suspiciously like she may be pregnant. Our vet said it's a very good possibility, but, "It's not my specialty. You'll know in a few months." Thanks so much.  So, I completely understand the anxiousness that goes along with not knowing for sure, and not having a due date estimate even if you were sure. We have been sure to keep our mare up to date on her vaccinations and dewormer. You will need to get her vaccinations that are safe for expectant mares, just in case. You will also want to get her on a Mare and Foal suppliment. Your cousin obviously has other personal issues to work through. It is nice that you are doing your best to look out for Patches in the meantime. Wish you the best.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

BurrWoodStableGirl said:


> I feel for the situation with your cousin, and hope things will improve. We have a rescued Thoroughbred that is looking suspiciously like she may be pregnant. Our vet said it's a very good possibility, but, "It's not my specialty. You'll know in a few months." Thanks so much.  So, I completely understand the anxiousness that goes along with not knowing for sure, and not having a due date estimate even if you were sure. We have been sure to keep our mare up to date on her vaccinations and dewormer. You will need to get her vaccinations that are safe for expectant mares, just in case. You will also want to get her on a Mare and Foal suppliment. Your cousin obviously has other personal issues to work through. It is nice that you are doing your best to look out for Patches in the meantime. Wish you the best.


Can't your vet pull some blood and check if your mare is pregnant? That's kinda ridiculous lol


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## BurrWoodStableGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Like rookie mentioned in my post, any vet should be able to do an ultrasound or palpate..... The vet didn't seem to be at all concerned about her birthing randomly in our 40-acre field, which is bizarre. I have a couple of other vets' numbers on hand (there is no one else that is remotely close). I'm hoping she will be good in a pinch. Regardless, I am requesting a vet visit on Monday. I am getting concerned that, although Blakely has become the alpha mare since she came, she has never gone into heat, been moody, or overly aggressive. Just lately, she mercilessly gouged up our sweet yearling (she kicked him several times, until he was cornered, on his knees trying to back away, and bleeding). Before then, they were inseperable. All of the horses seem to be edgy and afraid of her now.... understandably. Hopefully, the vet will give us good news.

I ran accross this site when I was searching for any info. on signs of pregnant mares, etc. The blog that caught my attention was filled with lots of positive support and feedback from caring, knowledgeable horse lovers. This thread seems doomed to somewhat patronizing and negative comments.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Burrwood why do you find it bizarre that the vet doesn't have a problem with her foaling outside?
Most big ranches and large horse breeders prefer to allow the mare to foal in their pastures.
So do I. If the pasture is not overcrowded with horses and free from debris it will be safe.
That mare will seperate herself from the herd and keep the foal away from the other horse for a few days.
that way you do not have to worry about how the other horses will react when you introduce the mare and foal back into the herd.
they will have done it naturally. Shalom


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## BurrWoodStableGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Db, I like the idea of letting them work out the dynamic of the heard and birth as naturally as possible, especially introducing the foal in such a manner. I am just concerned that we will not be able to assist her if she has trouble birthing out in our 40 acres of hills, trees, stream.... It is certainly not over crowded and there is no debris, but what if she has trouble and is not capable of separating herself from the rest of the heard? We have a huge Morab gelding, (Casa)Nova, (that was rescued with her) that is the alpha male and has made himself her protector; she depends on him and gets very anxious when he is not close. She has been very aggressive lately, but if she were in duress I don't think she could beat him off with a stick. He is very tenacious and bull headed, at best. Maybe he was cut late in the game? But, the heard they were with, before we brought them home, was very overcrowded, underfed, neglected, and extremely aggressive.... Being we don't have any idea of a due date how will we know when to inconspicuously stalk her around the property to be sure she and the foal are safe and don't need assistance? To make matters more concerning for me, we have 5 children, who were adopted from the US, Russia and Ethiopia that have major trauma and attachment issues. The horses have become part of their bonding and healing process. So, I don't think they could handle losing a foal that they are very eagerly anticipating..... So, anyway, there are lots of considerations. With your experience and preference for birthing in the pasture, how do you make yourself available to assist?? Thanks for your experience & feedback!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Burrwood, I would like to commend you for adopting those children and giving them a good home.
My mares foal in pastures of about 20-25 acres usually.
It is a chore sometimes during foal watch to walk those pastures at night with a flashlight.
If the mare has trouble the vet will know what to do in a pasture.
Most vets around here assist cattle and they are not kept in a barn or are as tame as horses. 
If that mare cannot be lead to the gate or barn during foaling then the vet is probably not going to be able to save either her or the foal anyway.
That is from my experience .
You have a full agenda and need nothing else to worry about.
I suggest you keep things simple and keep a vets number handy.
Mares usually foal within a few minutes of their water breaking.
If after an hour no foal you need to call a vet. Then it is an emergency. Shalom


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Forgot to add that my mare that foaled last august was the lwo mare on the totem pole. She foaled in a pasture with 7 other horses.
She kept even the dominant mare at bay.
This mare is very dominant and takes no prisoners when she is aggressive.
she wouldn't get within 50 feet of the foal for 3 days. Shalom


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## TexasBlaze (Oct 4, 2010)

Also ive noticed that mares that are present when a foal is born in the herd tend to be way more tolerable of the horse when it grows. When my colt was born There were two mares in the herd. The dominant was his mother and the other was the mare that was always beated up, even by geldings. Well, my colts 6 year old older sister busted down the fence and went after him. His mother ran him away from the sister and my pushover mare literally went all dragon on the older very dominant sister. I credit that mare with keeping him safe.


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## BurrWoodStableGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

I think their are definitely pros and cons to both stall and pasture birthing. But, we do have a very safe old stone barn building that the horses use for a wind, rain, and sun shelter. It is attached to a paddock that we typically use for training and barreling. But, today we took out the barrels and set it up for mom and baby. So, I think we are going to start foal watch tonight and bring her in from the pasture to the paddock each night. I think the pasture/heard concept is a great one.... barring the possible freak exception to the rule [that everything usually works out well for everyone involved]. Today Blakely was contracting when we brought her into the paddock; shortly after she freaked out and started charging around and frantically whinnying to her buddies, Nova & Gage. Just like the devoted minions they are, they were just out of sight & came a runnin'. So, we called the vet, explained all of her symptoms, and he responded that, with TBs, commonly the biggist indicator you get for foal watch time is a dramatic mood change. Plus, seeing contractions, a more triangular shape, kicking at stomach, rolling, agitated, veins popping, and more bagging he thinks we are looking at 2 to 4 wks (closer to 2 wks)? In the back of my mind, I'm thinking maybe false labor. He is planning on coming out the middle of next week. But, he recommended bringing her into the paddock at night; his main reason was that we are located in a very rural, heavily-wooded area that he has known to have cayotes that can be a danger. EEk. 

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-bre...-appears-preggers-134217/page2/#ixzz23IfUYNwl


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Burrwood do what you feel comfortable with and that works for you.
Nothing with horses is written in stone. Nothing.
Good luck. Shalom


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