# reining- low head



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

So how do you guys get your horses to lower their head for Reining? Brodie will do it if i use to two hands and remind him i am serious but if i do the one hand "claw" he takes advantage of me and doesn't carry his head as nice, it isn't bad but he sometimes pokes his nose out and i hate it!

HELP!


----------



## Skeeter9 (Sep 3, 2009)

By "pokes his nose out" do you mean he's avoiding the bit, or does he just stop breaking at the poll? My suggestion is to keep working on flexion. He needs to give when you pick up on the bit no matter what you are doing. Practice, practice, practice, and make sure you are rewarding at the appropriate time. Start at the standstill, and when he's responding well, progress to the walk, etc. Just be patient and I'm sure he'll get the idea, though he may always need to be reminded sometimes. Eventually your reminders should be nothing more than a slight twitch of your fingers. Be careful that you are not expecting him to travel with a level or low neck if he is not built to do so comformation wise. It will be uncomfortable for him and he won't travel well. Is the palomino in your avatar the horse you are referring to? He's a beauty!!!


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

ok soooooo at a stop and walk and trot we are good most of the time .. it's just at the canter (sorry lope) that he pokes his nose out. It isn't avoiding the bit, it is just breaking his "frame".

like i said when i use 2 hands and correct him he remembers but i want to be able to use one hand, loose rein and have it work- i know i need to keep working with him- just wanted to see if i was doing something wrong, guess not haha ..

here is a pic of him:


----------



## QHChik (Jun 26, 2009)

you also need to make sure that he is driving from behind and rounding his back. If he is hollowed, he'll be much more likely to carry his nose out. For that, I would do lots of railwork with roll backs. Lope him one way, stop, back up and then roll him back the other way. I would do that until he relaxes.


----------



## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

Kchfuller, i am having the same problem lol. She will do good at walk and trot kinda the lope, but i always have to use two hands!


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

well i have been doing that stuff .. ill keep it up then ..

ahhhh reining is all your seat and leg and i don't want to use 2 hands dang it! lol


----------



## Sixxofdiamonds (May 7, 2009)

Use one hand, then take your other hand and 'remind' him if he needs it.

He knows the difference of you using one or two hands, he can feel it. Every time he starts to poke his nose out, lift your reins and with your free hand "milk" the reins so that they're shortened up softly, but not constantly.

He'll get it with practice.


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

oh thanks! Ill try that- I am so used to riding english with contact but not in this western/reining stuff


----------



## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

Lol, ya the problem is, is she does not know alot of seat and leg cues lol, she is a green 7 year old, ugh.


----------



## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

Loping in a frame is a lot of work, so it could be he's just not strong enough to hold that frame yet. Ya, I second the PP about the roll back and lope off. It will remind him to be on his hocks and increase his strength, too. If you keep at it, as he gets stronger he'll gradually add more strides in proper frame as he gets stronger and more balanced.
Good luck, that horse is a real looker!


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

thanks!


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

You've gotten some great advice. Just keep working with him and try not to get frustrated. Some things cannot be taught in a couple of days or even a couple of months. Are you trying to get the uber collected, behind the vertical, WP headset that seems so popular with reining trainers these days? If you are not going to be competing at a pretty high level like NRHA, then I would be more concerned with keeping it natural and comfortable for him.


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

nothing to over the top no .. just want him with carry himself


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^ Good.  I still want to come steal him. Would you be willing to trade for a very green broke percheron gelding?? ROLFMAO!!


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

negative! 2 projects, a full time job, teaching lessons on the weekends, being a wife and trying to hang with friends would be way to much! I like having one semi finished horse! haha


----------



## Rod (Aug 26, 2009)

I can't expect my horses in training to maintain themselves in frame for very long at the lope when they are still learning. You have received some good advice about starting at the walk and trot. 
When I teach a horse to stay in frame at a lope I'll ask him for a stride or two with two hands. When he is in frame I'll pitch some slack to him and let him relax. In a few strides I'll ask him again. Over time I'll ask him to stay in frame for a stride or two longer. Gradually lengthen it out over a period of weeks. Once he is good with two hands I'll transition to one hand, and as has been already said, remind him with two hands when necessary. You will need the other hand often in the beginning but he will come around to one handed pretty soon. 
BTW, your horse looks like a buckskin to me. 

Rod


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

Rod... yes he is a buckskin- i didn't say he wasn't did i? 

Thanks for the advice- that is what i have been doing so it's good to know i am on the right track.


----------



## Rod (Aug 26, 2009)

Someone else on this thread called him a palomino.


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

yeah I just didn't correct them haha


----------



## Tophandcowgirl (Jun 23, 2007)

Hey kchfuller and rod (and anyone else who may have a reining horse), 

Do you turn all turn your horses out with sliders on at all? If so, how much? I was wondering because my horse got shod today, and my farrier told me that it was difficult to keep sliders on the horses if you turn them out or use them for other things such as trail riding, etc. He only recommended them for horses only working on reining things. Of course, he doesn't do a whole lot of reiners (average amount), so I wanted to get another opinion. 

What are your thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

Nope, I don't turn them out with sliders on. You mean in pasture right? 

I agree with your farrier because the sliders are meant for a specific use and if you are trail riding and need your horse to go up or down a hill and you have sliders on, then they aren't going to get traction- hence the "sliders"  

If you aren't doing heavy reining/showing then take off the sliders ... just a thought


----------



## Tophandcowgirl (Jun 23, 2007)

Yeah, I mean in the pasture. 

I rarely get to show, so the sliders would only be on for probably one shoeing while he learns just the basics, or for shows (normally in August). 

I just feel bad when I ask him to stop from a canter or even an extended jog often during a ride, and he has to jar those joints to stop, and make it uncomfortable for me because he can't really reach underneath himself well.

Do you think a small turnout area like a roundpen would be ok for turnout as opposed to a pasture, with the sliders on?

Thanks


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

If I were you I would watch him when you turn him out and see if he can "handle" himself ok (both my horses will hangout by me if I turn them out and they can see me so if you need to per say hide but in a place that you can still see him try that) ... if you aren't really showing I personally wouldn't put the sliders on. 

You can talk to your farrier about putting some normal shoes on and as long as you are riding in a good area it should be ok to stop. I don't have sliders on my guy right now- no need and I am not slamming him into the ground, just stopping him from a trot and a slow lope to make sure that we keep our balanced stop through the down time this winter.

Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions


----------



## Tophandcowgirl (Jun 23, 2007)

Thanks so much for the info! I'll definetely look at my options. 

I'm thinking I might do one shoeing next time with the sliders (for November to mid-december) just so that he can learn how they work. Then, over the winter months (Jan, Feb, Mar.) he can have just normal shoes. I'm thinking about doing this because I have an event in April that I may be doing, and I don't want to have to put the sliders on during the snow and ice months. But I want him to know how they work and such so that I dont' have to teach him literally the month of the event. 

How's that sound?


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

Sounds good but I don't know how much he will remember if you put them on now and then take them off for a few months ... I would say keep them off for winter and put them on in March- also talk to your farrier to see what find of traction and footing he will have with them on (I am in CA so I don't know how severe your weather is ext.). We can leave them on all year long but we don't get bad weather... rain is the worst we get... but I would only use then for the show season if it was me ... Do you work with a trainer?

Good luck!


----------



## Tophandcowgirl (Jun 23, 2007)

Unfortunately, I don't work with a trainer. I wish I could, but everything I make goes toward just paying my board or buying feed. I'm teaching myself reining, which I realize is difficult to impossible to do. But I truly love the sport, always have, and always will, so I absorb everything I can about it from books to videos. Since I have no guidance, this is why I am taking it really slowly so that I don't mess up the sliders. 

I'm just really concerned that he'll start colicing and/or develop vices from being inside all the time. Right now, he is on only 7-8 hours of stall time, the rest is pasture with several other horses (about 16 hours outside). There is just no way he would be able to stay inside and keep a healthy mind and body, unfortunately. If you think of any solution, please let me know! Thanks!


----------



## sparksgirl (Sep 13, 2009)

I love rolls backs- they are my favorite exercise!


----------



## Tophandcowgirl (Jun 23, 2007)

um...ok lol


----------



## Rod (Aug 26, 2009)

Top Hand and Kchfuller, 

I have a different opinion about sliders and when to put/leave them on, so I thought I'd weigh in on the subject. I've been busy training horses and watching grandkids and haven't had any time to 'play' on the forum. It's Sat. evening and I finally have a little time for myself. 

I want the horses that I show to be very comfortable wearing sliders. As soon as they progress to the point in their training where they act like they want to stop, I put them in sliders. I keep them in sliders until I quit showing them. That may be several years. I want the sliders to be a part of their foot. I want them to know how the sliders will perform in all situations. I turn them out on pasture with them on. I ride in the hills with them on. I work cattle with them on. I ride in the winter (in Idaho) with them on. About the only time I don't ride with them on is on hard ice. 

I think this gives me an advantage when in the show pen because the horse is never surprised about how the sliders work. My horses don't slip and 'kick out of lead' in the circles because they are still getting used to their sliders. They are not unsure about themselves in any show situation because they have lived in sliders in all sorts of situations for the past year or more. 

I show Reined Cow Horses and the cow horse rein work does have some differences from a NRHA reining run. I want my horses to stop deep and push some dirt. A horse that stops hard- with its feet well underneath them, will score as well or better than a horse that skates across the top of the ground in a classic sliding stop.

I do not put as wide of a slider on my horses as some do. I stick with 1" sliders. On a very few horses I'll use a 1 1/4". I can get a good stop with 1" sliders on the vast majority of horses. 

I have not had a problem with sliders coming off the foot when I use the horses for other things. If your horseshoer can't set a slider that stays on- maybe you need a different shoer. 

I am certainly not saying that this is the only way (or even the correct way). But it has worked well for me. YMMV.

Rod


----------



## Tophandcowgirl (Jun 23, 2007)

Wow Rod, 

Thanks so much for your opinion. I really wanted to get different opinions which is why I really appreciate your's and kchfuller's responses! That's really interesting that you can turn your's out with sliders, but some prefer not to. If I have to keep him inside with sliders on, I won't do it to him. It's just not worth it to me. I'm glad to know some people can turn their horses out with sliders on. When I talked to my farrier, he only briefly mentioned the subject when I asked him about it, so of course I'll go into more detail with him when it gets closer to next month's shoeing. Again, thanks so much for your opinion. Every bit of info helps!


----------



## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Well I have to say that I am more on Rod's side her. 

My filly is turned out in sliders all the time, but we didn't put them on to soon. We waited until she really wanted to stop and then on they went. She is turned out with them and although she doesn't do anything else other than reining training at the moment as long as I am showing her she will have the sliders on even if we go out for a short trail ride.


----------



## Tophandcowgirl (Jun 23, 2007)

FehrGroundRanch-thanks for your opinion too! I'm glad I am getting different responses so I can make a better decision. However, everyone is mentioning that they wait till the horse wants to stop. I'm having a hard time figuring out if my horse _*wants*_ to stop yet. He definetely knows the meaning of "whoa" and will stop for me on a dime. Does this mean he wants to stop?


----------



## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

LOL I can't really describe it, I know my horse wants to stop, that's all their is to it...

Is your horse ready to stop as soon as you change your seat? Is he willing to stop when you pick up your reins. 

Is your horse reining bred? Does he have formal reining training?


----------



## Tophandcowgirl (Jun 23, 2007)

He'll stop if I say "whoa", sit back and deeply, or pick up on the reins. He'll do it anyway, or all ways combined! 

He's not bred for reining, has a lot of tb and foundation at the same time (if that's possible)- he's more western pleasure but he absolutely has no inclination to go slow-the breeder tried to train him for western pleasure as did another barn, and they both failed-he's not a slow horse.

No formal training either. Just me  And yes, I may be crazy, but this is something I care about so much, and I will absorb anything you put in front of me about reining.

Thanks


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

Rod said:


> Top Hand and Kchfuller,
> 
> I have a different opinion about sliders and when to put/leave them on, so I thought I'd weigh in on the subject. I've been busy training horses and watching grandkids and haven't had any time to 'play' on the forum. It's Sat. evening and I finally have a little time for myself.
> 
> ...


hey Rod- thanks for the counter point  i know everyone doesn't do it the way that we do (not that we do it the "right" way) but it is cool to learn how you do it and why... you have a great system that works for you and maybe ill have to try it sometime.
thanks!


----------

