# Reading swirls



## equiniphile

Swirls as in cowlicks? Excel has a toonnn of those!


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## Shasta1981

equiniphile said:


> Swirls as in cowlicks? Excel has a toonnn of those!


Right, as in the number of and in what direction the fur swirls to on their forehead and how it can indicate personalities.


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## equiniphile

I would love to read up on that, subscribing!


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## twogeldings

I had a old guy tell me this and I actually kinda believe it  

If the swirl is above the eyes, the horse will be hot.
If the swirl is level or below the eyes, the horse will be mellow.

Every 'hot', or more spooky/spunky/difficult has had a swirl high up, above the eyes. Loki and Red especially 
My first mellow horse, Divo who takes everything in stride, has a low swirl. Roughly an inch or so below the eye line.


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## equiniphile

Interesting. Excel, Arthur, Frappe, and Lenox should be hot, but Lenox is in fact very calm!
Latte is calm. Molly is calm(????) too apparently!


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## Arksly

What do the different directions mean? 
Kitty's swirl is above her eyeline but she seems pretty calm right now... I sure hope she stays that way!


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## DanceOfTheDead96

equiniphile said:


> I would love to read up on that, subscribing!


Ditto
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shasta1981

There's a video in horse.com that goes into details and the book I read, Getting in TTouch ( yes two t's) goes further into it. The basics outline single swirls above the eyes, single swirls below the eyes, long single swirls, double swirls and triple swirls. If your horse has more than one swirl then it means different things depending on where they are positioned. For instance, romeo has two swirls, one above the other which supposedly means that he has a split personality. I believe that one! The premise behind it is that the fur on the forehead is formed in utero and in connection with the brain. Some of it seems like hocus pocus but I'd be interested to see how many people agree with it. You would have to really know your horse to confirm accuracy, not just ridden the horse once or twice.


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## Shasta1981

Two geldings, Yes ive read the same thing!

Ark sly, that's the most common. is the swirl set to one side or another? If it's on the left she would be a bit more complicated but trustworthy, is it if on the right would indicate less cooperative than those who have them on the center or the left.


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## Arksly

Hmmm. I'm not sure. She seems pretty stubborn and will test you, but as soon as she figures out that she can't get away with it she seems pretty good.
Here's a picture:


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## Shasta1981

Hard to see. Kind of looks like two swirls or one long swirl....


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## Arksly

It's even hard to tell in person.


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## Shasta1981

Is she emotional? Perhaps over reactive without any apparent reason?


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## Arksly

Well, when I'm lunging her and if I'm not paying attention she will stop and back up. It doesn't matter if she's cantering, that mare can stop on a dime. She is very smart and is always keeping me on my toes, she'll be interesting to train.


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## Shasta1981

Doesn't seem like she's matching up to the swirl chart! Swirl theory:0 horses being horses:1 However this book outlines how to look at all features and put them together so maybe that's how it should be approached.


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## Arksly

Maybe, it's still cool though.


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## dressagebelle

I think that its meant to be looked at as a whole, but I've got an Arabian mare, who's got a swirl literally dead center on her forehead, but a bit below the eyes, and she's definitely not a totally calm or trustworthy horse. She's sweet, and she has her moments, and is very smart, but definitely has energy to burn, and is a bit of a drama queen. Definitely not what I would consider to be a mellow horse. I would be interested to know more though. I've just started working with another Arabian gelding, and he's got the oddest coat pattern, and a large number of swirls going all sorts of directions.


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## Shasta1981

Dressage belle, can you post a pic of her full face head on and a side profile of her face too? I'll study it against the book and see if the personality comes out correctly.


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## Poseidon

Reading Forehead Swirls | Horse Videos – StateLineTack.com Video Library

Someone posted about the Chris Irwin videos on Stateline's website. These were among them and I figured they'd be of interest to the subscribers of this thread.


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## vikki92

my horse thunder has a swirl (cowlick) on his neck, I wonder what that area means? does it say anything about that area of the body?


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## Sarahandlola

I cannot seem to find any on Lola's forehead...But there is one on either side of her neck in the same spot. They are called Whorls here XD


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## apachewhitesox

I'm not sure how much I believe it but I'm very interested to find out more about it. Since I heard about it I've wanted that TTouch book. I watched the videos off of horse.com but I couldn't quite place what my boy would be any ideas?


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## Shasta1981

Vikki yes it is supposed to mean something according to the book but the horse.com ( Chris Irwin videos that poseidan linked) just talk about the forehead and nothing else. 

Apache - looks like one swirl in between the eyes. Kind of looks elongated though?


Maybe it's two though? If it's two then he's supposed to be sensitive.


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## Poseidon

apachewhitesox said:


> I'm not sure how much I believe it but I'm very interested to find out more about it. Since I heard about it I've wanted that TTouch book. I watched the videos off of horse.com but I couldn't quite place what my boy would be any ideas?


The TTouch book is at Barnes & Noble for like..$17-20, I think, if you live in the US. I've looked through it a few times while I've been there. It's very interesting.


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## Sarahandlola

Pictures of Lola's forehead...


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## Shasta1981

Sarah, I'm going to go all out on this one based on what I can see in the pics. Lola should be confident, trustworthy and steady but has had a stressful past. Does that sound like Lola?


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## StrikinHigh

I had an old horse guy also tell me that the closer the whorls on their neck is to the horses ears, the more intelligent they are. It rings true for all of my horses, lol!


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## MyBoyPuck

I love reading face whorls!! From what I understand, the whorl hair grows before any other hair. It is a direct blueprint of the horse's brain. Basically the nuts and bolts of it are

1. whorl at eye level indicates average intelligence and less reactive to stimuli. The higher it is, the smarter the horse and the more reactive it is. 

2. The more concentric the whorl, the easier the horse can focus and the faster it learns. A more elongated whorl is a horse who has more difficulty learning. 

3. Some horses have more than one whorl. If they are side by side, that indicates two distinct but similar personalities. Only downside is you have to teach both of them and never know which one you'll get on any given day. 

Whorls that are top/bottom are Jekyl/Hyde personalities. The upper one is much more reactive. Your seemingly calm horse who then blows up for no apparent reason fits into this category. 

I spent an entire clinic weekend reading whorls and was fascinated to find that it was for the most part a very good guage of the horse's personality. I find it very cool stuff!


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## lilruffian

Ok i'll post 3 horses i've owned over the years (including one of my current mares).
Not sure how to place 'em so maybe ya'll can tell me
The first is Chico, my Arab







This is Chili, a Quarab gelding 







And Lena, a QH filly


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## lilruffian

^^ I know the one of Chili is bad, but the whorl was well above his eyes


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## MyBoyPuck

Chico, a little hard to see how tightly wound it is since she has a black face. It looks fairly round and tight. I'd say not too reactive, learns quickly and retains what she's learned. Overall good mind.

Second one I can't see. 

Lena, smart, but probably a little more reactive and more difficult to teach than Chico. Likes to test her rider.

Close?


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## usandpets

I found a vid on youtube that tells the secret of whirls and swirls:


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

Can some one tell me more about what Paradise's swirl means? I want to see if it matched his personality and maybe even help me with his taining . It is above the eyes and sort of splayed out so from what I can tell it means he is high energied and doesn't focus well.


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## MyBoyPuck

Yeah, if the science is correct, that horse will be very reactive, (spooky), smart (lots of testing the rider) and hard to teach since he has trouble focusing. This horse would benefit from a greatly varied training regimen. Go around in circles all day and this horse would spook left and right. Then again, it's just theory!


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## Shasta1981

Ruffian, it looks like chili has a long single swirl from that picture which would mean that she is friendly and enjoys relating to people. 

Puck, have you read Getting in TTouch? I would like to know if it matches up with what you studied in your clinic.


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## MyBoyPuck

Shasta1981 said:


> Puck, have you read Getting in TTouch? I would like to know if it matches up with what you studied in your clinic.


No I haven't read that. I'll take a look. I really enjoy this face whorl stuff.


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl

MyBoyPuck said:


> Yeah, if the science is correct, that horse will be very reactive, (spooky), smart (lots of testing the rider) and hard to teach since he has trouble focusing. This horse would benefit from a greatly varied training regimen. Go around in circles all day and this horse would spook left and right. Then again, it's just theory!


That is very interesting! Thanks, that will help with his training plan


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## lilruffian

My BoyPuck you're pretty close on Chico & Lena. Chico's not overall friendly/lovely but she learns very quickly & does her job.
Lena wsa anut lol as i put it. It took awhile to get her to grasp new things because she liked to put up a fight & test your will but once she learned something she stuck with it.
As for Chili, he was a total dink lol he was stubborn, liked to mess with you in the saddle, incredibly lazy & threw tantrums when he didnt want to do something; bucking, balking, spooking at nothing, etc. So long as you let him go at a walk & with other horses he was calm as peanuts though.


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## RadHenry09

Could someone tell me what you think about my boys?



Paint/Pinto is Henry, Dun is Radar

I am going to have to get pics with out Radars forelock...this are from Christmas


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## Sarahandlola

Well lola can be confident when she wants to be. Same with the trustworthy thing. When she is not being a brat she is extremely good and honest. 

I'd say she has had a stressful past because she can be a bit weird about things.


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## apachewhitesox

Apache - looks like one swirl in between the eyes. Kind of looks elongated though?


Maybe it's two though? If it's two then he's supposed to be sensitive.[/QUOTE]



I had a look when I went for a ride today. I found there are two one right above the other, they're almost on top of eachother. The bottom one is a very neat little circle and the top one is a circle that elongates upwards. Then he also has one right up at the base of his forelock and I'm pretty sure it was a neat little circle too. I'm afraid I don't have a good picture of all three but would you be able to explain this at all.


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## Shasta1981

[/QUOTE]

I had a look when I went for a ride today. I found there are two one right above the other, they're almost on top of eachother. The bottom one is a very neat little circle and the top one is a circle that elongates upwards. Then he also has one right up at the base of his forelock and I'm pretty sure it was a neat little circle too. I'm afraid I don't have a good picture of all three but would you be able to explain this at all.[/QUOTE]



That's what Romeo has. Its supposed to mean that he is sensitive and has a split personality. There are good days and bad days for no reason. When Romeo has a bad day, I call him Mercutio because it's supposed to be another horse you are dealing with! You may want to wait for puck to weigh in though because I don't think I have gotten one of these right yet! =)


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## MyBoyPuck

RadHenry09 said:


> Could someone tell me what you think about my boys?
> 
> 
> 
> Paint/Pinto is Henry, Dun is Radar
> 
> I am going to have to get pics with out Radars forelock...this are from Christmas


I'll take a stab at it. 

Henry - bombproof, reactive is not a word you'd use to describe him. He takes awhile to grasp new concepts because he has difficulty focusing. If he were a dog, he'd be sleeping on your couch. 

Radar - Horse I'd like to ride. A little reactive at times, but a smart horse, good mind and easy to teach. Radar has a very concentrated whorl which indicates a high degree of focus. Very even tempered.


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## MyBoyPuck

apachewhitesox said:


> Apache - looks like one swirl in between the eyes. Kind of looks elongated though?
> Maybe it's two though? If it's two then he's supposed to be sensitive.


I had a look when I went for a ride today. I found there are two one right above the other, they're almost on top of each other. The bottom one is a very neat little circle and the top one is a circle that elongates upwards. Then he also has one right up at the base of his forelock and I'm pretty sure it was a neat little circle too. I'm afraid I don't have a good picture of all three but would you be able to explain this at all.[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking Apache is a fairly mellow horse. Not very reactive. Probably good on trails. The elongated part says he doesn't stay focused well and probably needs to be taught things several times before he catches on.

The top/bottom one shows 2 very different personalities in one horse. Bottom whorl, very neat circle, is a good Joe. Learns easy and is not too reactive. The top elongated one would indicate a smart but reactive horse who likes to test his rider but spooking, bucking or otherwise acting out. Problem with top/bottoms is they can switch like flipping a light switch. Probably some very unexpected moments with this horse.


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## RadHenry09

MyBoyPuck said:


> I'll take a stab at it.
> 
> Henry - bombproof, reactive is not a word you'd use to describe him. He takes awhile to grasp new concepts because he has difficulty focusing. If he were a dog, he'd be sleeping on your couch.
> 
> Radar - Horse I'd like to ride. A little reactive at times, but a smart horse, good mind and easy to teach. Radar has a very concentrated whorl which indicates a high degree of focus. Very even tempered.


 
I think you got that right on the money


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## apachewhitesox

I'm thinking Apache is a fairly mellow horse. Not very reactive. Probably good on trails. The elongated part says he doesn't stay focused well and probably needs to be taught things several times before he catches on.

The top/bottom one shows 2 very different personalities in one horse. Bottom whorl, very neat circle, is a good Joe. Learns easy and is not too reactive. The top elongated one would indicate a smart but reactive horse who likes to test his rider but spooking, bucking or otherwise acting out. Problem with top/bottoms is they can switch like flipping a light switch. Probably some very unexpected moments with this horse.[/QUOTE]

Well this horse is actually Sam but I suppose he is a bit like that the most major difference I've seen since I've had him is some days he seems almost lazy and others he's a bit more hypo. When he is hypo he's very forward so can sometimes bolt if your not ready to hold him back and is a little more spooky. I think that describes him quite well. Thanks


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## MyBoyPuck

Any more whorls to read? This is fun!


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## equiniphile

MBP, can you try mine?

Latte:









Frappe:









Lulu:









Arthur:









Molly:









Lenox:









Excel:


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## MyBoyPuck

That's a lot of whorls!! 

Latte, learns very quickly, great work ethic. Bombproof. 

Frappe, a tough nut! Very smart, quick learner, reactive/spooky. This horse tests the limits frequently and would rather train the rider rather than the other way around. Gotta stay one step ahead of this horse!

Lulu, smart, spooky. Takes awhile to catch onto new things. Probably shows up as stubborn, but she's just trying to figure out what's being asked. 

Arthur, half way between Frappe and Lulu. Reactive and smart. Probably a combo of testing the waters and a bit stubborn. 

Molly's is hard to see. If it's what it looks like to me, she's bomb proof puppy dog. You could run a heard of deer in front of her and she'd walk along quietly. 

Lenox, not quite able to see it. It looks to be above the eyes, but very elongated and narrow? If so, not too reactive, short attention span, but very focused once he's doing something he's interested in.

Excel, a little reactive but learns things fairly easily and likes to work.


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## equiniphile

MyBoyPuck said:


> That's a lot of whorls!!
> 
> Latte, learns very quickly, great work ethic. Bombproof.
> *Spot-on!*
> 
> Frappe, a tough nut! Very smart, quick learner, reactive/spooky. This horse tests the limits frequently and would rather train the rider rather than the other way around. Gotta stay one step ahead of this horse!
> *Thanks for the heads up, I haven't really started working with her yet, but it seems to suit her.*
> 
> Lulu, smart, spooky. Takes awhile to catch onto new things. Probably shows up as stubborn, but she's just trying to figure out what's being asked.
> *Smart, not spooky though.*
> 
> Arthur, half way between Frappe and Lulu. Reactive and smart. Probably a combo of testing the waters and a bit stubborn.
> *Exactly!*
> 
> Molly's is hard to see. If it's what it looks like to me, she's bomb proof puppy dog. You could run a heard of deer in front of her and she'd walk along quietly.
> *Actually, no. She's pretty spooky, which I'm working on overcoming with her.*
> 
> Lenox, not quite able to see it. It looks to be above the eyes, but very elongated and narrow? If so, not too reactive, short attention span, but very focused once he's doing something he's interested in.
> *Yep, it's above her eyes and narrow/long. She's very bombproof and even-tempered, so essentially, yes *
> 
> Excel, a little reactive but learns things fairly easily and likes to work.
> *Yep!*


 Most were pretty spot-on!


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## MyBoyPuck

That's weird about Molly. Hers is almost under her eye level which suggests a very non-reactive horse. Any chance she's got a second one higher up in that white hair? Does she get spooky very suddenly out of nowhere?


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## equiniphile

MyBoyPuck said:


> That's weird about Molly. Hers is almost under her eye level which suggests a very non-reactive horse. Any chance she's got a second one higher up in that white hair? Does she get spooky very suddenly out of nowhere?


 It may be a result of her background. Off the track she was retrained as a dressage horse and sold to someone who was to use her as a broodmare, but they were a very bad rider and did things like kicking her when she misbehaved, etc. She started bolting whenever asked for the canter, so she was sold to someone else who soon grew afraid of her and sold her to me. I found her original off-track owner, who retrained her for me, and told me that she used to be that horse that you could do anything with--walk under her, etc. She said she's always been spooky, but after that second owner, she's now very skittish and sensitive to aids.


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## Poseidon

Random additional comment: the TTouch book has a lot of other facial features that can indicate character, as in nose and ear shape, shapes of the skull. It's very interesting. 

I used pictures I had of Abby on my phone to compare her one day while at the book store. I think it said she was pretty even tempered, but a quick learner. Which is accurate.


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## apachewhitesox

I would love to get that ttouch book and go through the swirls, shapes of the ears, nose etc on all my horses and see how accurate it is. I'm yet to find a copy of it though


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## Poseidon

Amazon.com: Getting in Touch: Understand and Influence Your Horse's Personality (9781570760181): Linda Tellington-Jones, L. Tellington-Jones, Sybil Taylor: Books

Or

Getting in TTouch with Your Horse, Linda Tellington-Jones, (9781570764158) Paperback - Barnes & Noble

I'm not sure if the different covers means they're different. I've only seen the one on Barnes & Noble's page. Either way, they're both about $15.


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## apachewhitesox

thanks


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## Gidget

Here is Gidget's


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## vivache

What do y'all make of the Gaited Cow?


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## Shasta1981

Poseidon said:


> Random additional comment: the TTouch book has a lot of other facial features that can indicate character, as in nose and ear shape, shapes of the skull. It's very interesting.
> 
> I used pictures I had of Abby on my phone to compare her one day while at the book store. I think it said she was pretty even tempered, but a quick learner. Which is accurate.



Body swirls too! Theres so much detailed information you almost have to takes notes!! Puck's method seems to be very accurate though I'm interested in it. Puck can you elaborate on the tightness of the swirl and what that means?

Gidget, based on facial structure alone according to the book, minds his own business, average intelligence, dependable, cooperative. (high swirls in TTouch don't really mean anything). I love the garland by the way. Hilarious!

Gaited cow. Haha! Two swirls on top of each other? I throw the book aside and go with chris Irwin- split personality. 

Puck what do you think?


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## Poseidon

Gidget - I am pretty sure Chris Irwin said tighter swirls means she can concentrate more easily and the higher up her swirl goes, the more aware of her surroundings she is. According to that, she would be more aware and able to understand her surroundings than, say, Abby (you can see her swirl in my avatar.)


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## Gidget

Okay,thanks


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## Gidget

and thanks on the garland,hahahaa...that was for an xmas card.


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## phoenix

Wow, this is interesting stuff. any chance you could take a look at phoenix's?


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## Shasta1981

Phoenix- ears straight up, same width at top and base=can be a little hot; flat upper lip=minds his own business, independent; swirl between the eyes -uncomplicated nature


Does that sound like him at all?


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## phoenix

Shasta1981 said:


> Phoenix- ears straight up, same width at top and base=can be a little hot; flat upper lip=minds his own business, independent; swirl between the eyes -uncomplicated nature
> 
> 
> Does that sound like him at all?


Actually yes, he can be hot at the most random times but the rest of the time is pretty mellow.he is quite independent both in the field with his buddies and with me sometimes; i don't know about him minding his own business he does like to be in everything


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## KawaiiCharlie

could you take a look at corkies?


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## MyBoyPuck

First pic is blocked by his forelock. I see where it is on his face, but how defined is it? Does it make a nice tight circle or is it a little messy and spread out?


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## KawaiiCharlie

i actually looked at it today because i remembered reading this thread, if i remember correctly its not spread out. 

could you take a look at flash too? he has a rather strange attitude..interested to see what you come up with for him.. lol
after youve looked, i'll tell you what he done today lol xD


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## KawaiiCharlie

oops picture didnt work sorry


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## MyBoyPuck

Corkie is average intelligence, not a testing type and very easy to teach. Very focused. That same focus can backfire and result is him zero-ing in on a distant coyote or deer which doesn't always produce a fun result. 

I can't really see Flash's. If it's as high up on his head and as spread out as it looks to be, he's a real trip. Attention span of a gnat, testing and stubborn. Can't really tell since I can't see it that well. 

So what did he do?


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## KawaiiCharlie

MyBoyPuck said:


> Corkie is average intelligence, not a testing type and very easy to teach. Very focused. That same focus can backfire and result is him zero-ing in on a distant coyote or deer which doesn't always produce a fun result.


that sounds about right 



> I can't really see Flash's. If it's as high up on his head and as spread out as it looks to be, he's a real trip. Attention span of a gnat, testing and stubborn. Can't really tell since I can't see it that well.
> 
> So what did he do?


HA! yeah thats flash alright.. 
well, simply because there had been a new pony put in the field that we were walking past, not even his field, & they were squealing and running about, he used that as an excuse to play up...reared up and almost kicked me in the face, then continued to drag me all the way to his stable (along a track and across a road) i had to keep turning him in circles to stop him from running off...hes a nut lol he used to have a major rearing problem when my cousin first got him..hes kinda over it now. he only rears in situations like that lol


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## MyBoyPuck

phoenix said:


> Wow, this is interesting stuff. any chance you could take a look at phoenix's?
> 
> View attachment 55990


Phoenix is a tough one. It's just slightly above eye level which suggests he's just a hair on the more smart/reactive side. He may occasionally test the waters, but probably gives in after only a short fight. He appears to be easy to teach and is for the most part easy going.


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## MyBoyPuck

KawaiiCharlie said:


> that sounds about right
> 
> 
> HA! yeah thats flash alright..
> well, simply because there had been a new pony put in the field that we were walking past, not even his field, & they were squealing and running about, he used that as an excuse to play up...reared up and almost kicked me in the face, then continued to drag me all the way to his stable (along a track and across a road) i had to keep turning him in circles to stop him from running off...hes a nut lol he used to have a major rearing problem when my cousin first got him..hes kinda over it now. he only rears in situations like that lol


No offense, but if I saw that whorl on a horse that was for sale for $1, I still would pass!!


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## KawaiiCharlie

MyBoyPuck said:


> No offense, but if I saw that whorl on a horse that was for sale for $1, I still would pass!!


hahaha. i have no idea why my cousin bought him...he actually bucked her off the day she went to try him out... shes crazy lol shes had him about 2 years now i think


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## phoenix

MyBoyPuck said:


> Phoenix is a tough one. It's just slightly above eye level which suggests he's just a hair on the more smart/reactive side. He may occasionally test the waters, but probably gives in after only a short fight. He appears to be easy to teach and is for the most part easy going.


He's smart, pretty easy to teach but sometimes a little stubborn about being taught. He does test the waters and gets a little fired up but honestly is such a big pushover i wonder why he even tries; like today i was lunging him since he hasn't done anything in over a week. Normal horses would prance or canter to get out their energy, not phoenix. he kept stopping and just standing there like "are we done yet" i had to really get after him to move and even then he gave me a smidge of attitude then gave in and worked. He's so easy going on the ground, everyone loves him.


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## MyBoyPuck

Boy this whorl thing really has some teeth to it. I think there's only one horse on this thread that didn't fit his whorl. It's more interesting all the time.


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## vivache

vivache said:


> What do y'all make of the Gaited Cow?


This thing has a split personality?

Oh no. :shock: Doesn't bode well for me.


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## MyBoyPuck

Sorry to say...yes. You have two kids in the same body there. At least both personalities are very focused. The bottom one is a good easy to train Joe. The upper one is a wicked smart, reactive, trying to out think you beast. Hopefully the lower one shows up most of the time. Unlike side by side whorls, top/bottoms don't tend to flip on a dime. Usually one is much more predominant and the other only shows up once in awhile. I think you would know if the upper one was present by before you ever got into the saddle. In those cases, just do ground work and a long grooming session.


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## vivache

The top whorl only shows in the winter. 95% of the time she's a calm, slow beast. She is as stubborn as she is wide, though.. she can be reactive and *look* for things to spook at.


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## Brighteyes

Can you read Baby Girl's please?  Her whorl is excessively small... It's at the center of the colored area of the photo. It's on the edge of her lightning bolt, so it's hard to notice.


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## MyBoyPuck

Baby Girl's is hard to see. Look like it's well above her eye level and very shaped. If it is, she's smart, a tester, tries to stay a step ahead of her rider and focused enough to pull it off sometimes. She probably doesn't back down easily when she's in a stubborn mood. When she is doing something she likes, she locks in on it and goes to work.


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## StoneWall

*Have you seen this?*

This is a new futurity prospect we have in. ODD on top out of JL and SL. Ill get more pictures tomorrow. I think I counted 13 or 14 swirls on him, three on his face. This is his neck. I have never seen a triangle formation on the neck in swirls. The flow changes direction. I can not upload, if someone will drop me a line I will email the picture to you of his neck, to post for me would be great.


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## apachewhitesox

I already put on of my other horses up so I thought I would ask about Apache. I don't know how well you can see the picture its almost impossible to get a decent picture of his swirls. He has one on his white marking I think you can just see the centre of it in the pic and its big but a tight and perfect swirl. and I just discovered he has a second one up at the base of his forelock its much smaller but it seems to a kind of line that goes horizontally across his face if that makes sense. Thanks for any ideas


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## Eolith

How about my pony's swirl? Hers is like long a part that goes down her face and ends in a pretty tight swirl just above her noseband... you can see the oval outline of the light reflecting off of it in this pic:


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## MyBoyPuck

Wow, two very weird whorls!!

Apache is not very reactive but appears to have the focus and attention span of a gnat. It probably shows up as more disinterested than stubborn. I'm thinking he tries hard, but has to be taught things over and over again. 

Eolith, that's the strangest one I've seen yet. Is there a second whorl above that elongated one? The elongated one suggests a bomb proof horse, but with varying levels of focus. His is strange because it's not round, but it's also not all over the place. I would say this suggests he can focus very well on work he is interested in, but it may take some trial and error to get him into that state of mind in the first place. I'd say he tries hard for you and is not a tester.


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## apachewhitesox

No he isnt very reactive and he can get very bored with what your doing very quickly and thats when he plays up. He actually catches onto things very quickly unless you catch him on one of his rare psycho days where he wont listen at all and then has moments where he explodes and want to run (opposite of usual him) he comes across to people as lazy and very stubborn. I think he's more lazy but also gets bored easily.


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## GreyRay

What do twin swirls mean? Shaffiek has twin swirls level with the top of his eyes, and when facing him the one on the left is smaller(that would be his right). Just curious  I dont have any way to post pics or I would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shasta1981

GreyRay said:


> What do twin swirls mean? Shaffiek has twin swirls level with the top of his eyes, and when facing him the one on the left is smaller(that would be his right). Just curious  I dont have any way to post pics or I would.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi grey

Multiple swirls means multiple personalities. There are two horses in there and you never know who you are going to get on any given day. Not sure if the size matters hopefully puck will revisit this thread again and give an opinion on that!


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## csimkunas6

Curious as to what my new guys is....dont know if you can really see it...but here are 2 pics...




























Sorry if you cant really see it...these are the only pics I got of him right now


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## Shasta1981

Csim -


Intelligent, curious, dependable. Based on all facial features. Sound Like him?


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## csimkunas6

Ill let you know when I get him home...just bought him...but from what I have heard(from previous owner) he is very very smart, curious, and a very good guy that you can depend on, so Id say you hit the nail on the head!!! Thanks so much!!


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## gypsygirl

my mare has four swirls together, they are on the left side of her face and about 2 or 3 inches above her mouth, but lower than her cheek. anyone know what that means ?


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## Strange

If having a swirl above the eye means a horse is "hotter" then my horse defies that lore. He has one right in the middle of his face, about an inch above his eyes, and he's not at all hot. Opinionated occasionally, but he's a pony, so that's a given. 

He also has two swirls, both going left, on the right side of his neck up near his crest. Dunno what that's supposed to mean though.


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## KawaiiCharlie

this ones interesting, take a look at Lily's for me? 
shes a 15hh 9yr old saddlebred appaloosa mare.
she has two swirls, both connected to eachother.


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## Shasta1981

Oh interesting! There is nothing like that in the book. I guess if there are two swirls then there is a split personality there..... Wonder if because they are connected that might mean that this horse flips between the two more often or something? What is this horse like?

ETA: another thought - maybe this horse has a hard time learning things because she has the split personality that is connected? Like she will get something one minute and then the next minute act like she has no clue what you are asking for.


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## Wallaby

If someone felt so inclined, I'd be super interested to hear what you think of Lacey's swirl!



















Thanks!


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## TxCntrySweetheart

Ive never heard of this until now...very interesting concept though. Im watching those videos now, Im going to see about my horses swirls tomorrow...thanks for the info!!


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## CiscoKidd

if you have time I would love to hear about Cisco and Teddy's swirls! 

Cisco:










Teddy:











Thanks!


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## KawaiiCharlie

Shasta1981 said:


> Oh interesting! There is nothing like that in the book. I guess if there are two swirls then there is a split personality there..... Wonder if because they are connected that might mean that this horse flips between the two more often or something? What is this horse like?
> 
> ETA: another thought - maybe this horse has a hard time learning things because she has the split personality that is connected? Like she will get something one minute and then the next minute act like she has no clue what you are asking for.


ive actually only ridden her twice, the first time she reared with me before we even got out the yard, but i rode her today & she was an angel. she responds more to seat and voice commands, rather than hands and kicking. shes actually really sweet on the ground


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## GeminiJumper

Can you guys tell me about these horses? 

Luke (his is in the very top part of his blaze) Quarter Horse









And Sadie  American Saddlebred


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## GeminiJumper

And Cassie!  APHA


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## KawaiiCharlie

GeminiJumper said:


> Can you guys tell me about these horses?
> 
> Luke (his is in the very top part of his blaze) Quarter Horse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Sadie  American Saddlebred


aww sadie only has one eye? poor girl. what happened to her?  shes realllyyy pretty. so is luke


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## GeminiJumper

KawaiiCharlie said:


> aww sadie only has one eye? poor girl. what happened to her?  shes realllyyy pretty. so is luke


Thanks!  Yes, she only has one eye. Something happened to her when she was very young and she was in her early twenties in this picture, so she's pretty used to only having one eye. She thinks its normal to only have one eye. She wasn't spooky at all, either!


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## Bandera

well it fits my horse. Her swirl it pretty high on her forehead and she is very hot... Its directly in the middle of her forehead and then she has another under her forlock. Does that mean anything?


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## Skipsfirstspike

A friend of mine has a mare that has swirls on her cheeks and on her neck. She is the typical dominant mare in the pasture, and works amazing in hand and under saddle. Her quirk is that if she is tied and you are standing near her, she will always craftily try to present her hind end to you-- not to be aggressive, but so you will scratch her rump!


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## gypsygirl

^^ that sounds just like my mare ! she has a weird swirl [its like 4 together] right below her cheek. she will back up into you when shes itchy ! people sometimes think shes trying to kick them - which is very unlikely. she is also a typical dominant mare =]


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## Skipsfirstspike

Lol, so cheek swirls mean they like getting their hind ends scratched!


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## ShinaKonga

I keep reading 'whorls' as '*****s'. Its throwing me off every time.

But, anyway, I took some pictures today with Milo... That thing on the upper right of his face is actually a scar from getting kicked in the face/dropped on his head/what have you. He got it before I bought him, so I'm not sure, but it looks kick-worthy. [That and I only found it today. Bad owner, bad.]


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## MyBoyPuck

I like Milo's Slight above the eye suggests a bit on the smart time and a little reactive at times. It's also slightly off to one side, so possibly she's more reactive out of her right eye than her left. The concentrated circle says that this horse can focus very well and is easy to teach. However the size of the whorl, (not ***** LOL!!) suggests it might take a bit more effort to get her focused in the first place. Overall she's a good egg.


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## ShinaKonga

You seem to be quite correct, Puck. Milo is much more of a right side horse- I swear, anything I teach takes twice as long to educate the left side of him than the right. He is easy to teach once he isn't off being ADD...
Must be something to these ****ty whorls after all


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## MyBoyPuck

That's cool about the right side thing. That's the first whorl I've seen offset, so I just took a shot about the off center location. I do love whorls. They really are fascinating.


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## AKBarbWire

What a great thread & those Chris Irwin videos are excellent, he has had me glued to the puter all morning.


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## NdAppy

Opinions on these swirls?

Chandy












Callie


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## KawaiiCharlie

MyBoyPuck said:


> That's cool about the right side thing. That's the first whorl I've seen offset, so I just took a shot about the off center location. I do love whorls. They really are fascinating.


Lily has an offset whorl.
she has two, one between her eyes & one above her right eye lol


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## MyBoyPuck

Chandy is a good egg. Doesn't test the rider too much. Somewhere between easy to teach and gets bored fast. Might have to do a little work at the start of each ride to get her attention, but once she's focused, it's just a matter of keeping it interesting.

Callie can really split the uprights depending on the day's mood. While easy to teach, much harder to keep focused because, on any given day, he's either very reactive or wicked bored, hopefully falls somewhere into the middle most days! Attention span of a gnat.


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## SpiritedLittleCopperSpots

Love this thread, glad it is still going, very interesting. 
I am going to see if I can find the TTouch book here local, then I can study up on all my horses!

Would you mind giving me your in site on a couple of my horses? I think I only have a good pic of two of theirs...
Thank You!


This is Kozmo, double whorl.








This is Me Jo ( he was NOT thrilled with me tucking his forelock up...:lol


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## MyBoyPuck

Kozmo. Side by side whorls, better than top/bottom. Both are above eye level which suggests a smart horse, sometimes thinks it's smarter than the rider and may test the waters from time to time. The less prominent whorl is offset and Kozmo probably doesn't use that brain as much as the one in the middle. When he does use it, he's probably more reactive/spooky on his right side. Basically this horse is easy to teach, but only after you've gotten his attention and convinced him that you're in charge. 

MeJo's is a little harder to diagnose. It's offset to the right side which suggests more reactive/spookiness on the right side, but it's almost below eye levels which says he's unreactive in general. The two traits offset, so they might cancel each other out. I'm guessing probably somewhat easy to teach but only if he finds what you're doing interesting. Otherwise is bored with what's going on around him.


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## SpiritedLittleCopperSpots

:lol: Ah, ha, ha, ha! Un-reactive! Boy, that is Me Jo all right!
He basically just moseys through life, very calm and gentle.
But surprisingly easy to teach, and a great cart horse!

Kozmo's I would say is less accurate in ways.
He is very level headed, calm, smart as a tack, and incredibly easy to train, cooperative and has a great work ethic.
He is full of enthusiasm, but in a good way. Takes a bit to actually spook him.

Thank you so much for doing that!
As soon as every one is shed out I am planning on taking great whorl photos of all of them. I am very anxious to compare how accurate the theory is.
Seems to be fairly close most of the time, and I guess you have to kind of factor in some wiggle room for interpretation as well huh?
What one person sees in a whorl, may not necessarily be what another would?


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## MyBoyPuck

Kozmo probably spends most of his time in that center whorl. That one's a very good shape in a very good spot on his head. 

I'm kinda of playing with the theory at this point now that I'm seeing ones that are off center and some splayed out in different ways. The where they are and what shape they are just give basic info. The rest is subject to interpretation. It is cool though, isn't it?


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## SpiritedLittleCopperSpots

You are very right about that, Kozmo is the most centered horse!
I did notice how much more prominent the one was. The other slightly higher one seemed sort of like a ghost...

I know for sure just off hand that two of the others have doubles as well. 
Will be really interesting when I get the chance to really study on them what I find...
Yep, very cool!  Thanks again.


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## Ladybug2001

This is a very interesting thread, glad to see it is still chugging along.

I personally believe my mare should have two swirls, one for when she is around me and another for when she is around others.

The girl in the picture is a 12 year old whose first time around horses was that day, she was actually terrified of horses going into it.









This picture is with me, I've had this mare for 10 freakin years and I swear at times she likes to make me look stupid.









Any ideas on her swirl?


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## AKBarbWire

Ok, I'll bite, I know what I think but I would love to hear what you think!


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## Shasta1981

Wow I haven't been on this thread for a while, looks like there's been a lot of movement! 

Ladybug, everything about your horse's features seems to indicate that she is steady and reliable though extroverted and curious (ears wider the the top, one swirl in the middle above eye level and a heart shaped upper lip). Sounds like she's a character though, huh? What is she like?

AKBarb- wow, weird swirl on this guy! Ok flat upper lip- minds his own business; nostrils shapely and fluted at the top - cooperative if a person is fair and confident; swirl ( not sure what to make if this, could be two swirls with long tails or one long irregular type swirl, or both, I'm going to try both!) - friendly and likes people but maybe emotional at times? What do you think?


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## SAsamone

Okay- i want to give this a whirl, to see if I really understand this concept...

Ak Barb- I see a horse that can learn very quickly, and once it learns something, can turn into " a dead head" like on trails. But should something perk interest, he becomes very alert and/or aggitated. Could also be very "stubborn" until he gets the idea. 

Ladybug, I see a horse that is even tempered, with a range of higher intelligence- a horse that can tell the diffenece between an easy ride around the pasture and a long ride with mommy. I think that's why she's so different with you...

Again, I could be TOTALLY off, i just wanted to try my hand in this lol....how'd i do?


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## AKBarbWire

Oh, scary! 



SAsamone said:


> Ak Barb- I see a horse that can learn very quickly :clap: Once I get the language right
> 
> and once it learns something, can turn into " a dead head" like on trails :clap:
> 
> But should something perk interest, he becomes very alert and/or aggitated. :clap: Seriously! It could be a squirrel fart. His worst spooks come from when he was ^^^above deadhead comment, then it's like he falls asleep and then spooks to wake up.
> 
> Could also be very "stubborn" until he gets the idea. :-| He isn't very stubborn.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I could be TOTALLY off, i just wanted to try my hand in this lol....how'd i do? Great
> 
> 
> AKBarb- wow, weird swirl on this guy! Ok flat upper lip- minds his own business; :clap: Interesting that you can read that!
> 
> nostrils shapely and fluted at the top - cooperative if a person is fair and confident; :clap:
> 
> swirl ( not sure what to make if this, could be two swirls with long tails or one long irregular type swirl, or both, I'm going to try both!) - friendly and likes people but maybe emotional at times? What do you think? :clap: It is one swirl but parts, he loves people more than other horses


Well, all in all you got him down, even things I didn't really think about like the nostrils & lip! Funny. That picture is from when he was 2, not much has changed.


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## Whisper22

I havn't been on this thread in a while and I didn't read through the entire thing but I was wondering if you only read swirls on a horses face or does it mean something if they have swirls in other places?


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## Ladybug2001

Shasta1981 said:


> Wow I haven't been on this thread for a while, looks like there's been a lot of movement!
> 
> Ladybug, everything about your horse's features seems to indicate that she is steady and reliable though extroverted and curious (ears wider the the top, one swirl in the middle above eye level and a heart shaped upper lip). Sounds like she's a character though, huh? What is she like?
> 
> AKBarb- wow, weird swirl on this guy! Ok flat upper lip- minds his own business; nostrils shapely and fluted at the top - cooperative if a person is fair and confident; swirl ( not sure what to make if this, could be two swirls with long tails or one long irregular type swirl, or both, I'm going to try both!) - friendly and likes people but maybe emotional at times? What do you think?


I would say you are pretty close on her, though she can be stubborn a lot though she has mellowed out a bit. She is curious yes, you got that right.



SAsamone said:


> Okay- i want to give this a whirl, to see if I really understand this concept...
> 
> Ak Barb- I see a horse that can learn very quickly, and once it learns something, can turn into " a dead head" like on trails. But should something perk interest, he becomes very alert and/or aggitated. Could also be very "stubborn" until he gets the idea.
> 
> Ladybug, I see a horse that is even tempered, with a range of higher intelligence- a horse that can tell the diffenece between an easy ride around the pasture and a long ride with mommy. I think that's why she's so different with you...
> 
> Again, I could be TOTALLY off, i just wanted to try my hand in this lol....how'd i do?


 
Mostly even tempered, she can snap when she is aggitated enough. She is smart. o.o She doesn't get out of the fence unlike other horses, she knows it is safe inside. Maybe that is why she is so different with me, never thought of it that way.


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## Shasta1981

Whisper22 said:


> I havn't been on this thread in a while and I didn't read through the entire thing but I was wondering if you only read swirls on a horses face or does it mean something if they have swirls in other places?


Whisper - There are theories on body swirls but most information out there seems to be on the forehead swirls.


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## MyBoyPuck

Whisper, the face whorl supposedly is an actual footprint of the brain while it's developing. That's why is tells so much about the horse's personality.


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## Whisper22

Oh gotcha, thanks.


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## NdAppy

Got Phoenix to stand still long enough to get a pic of her swirls. Yes there are two there.






























Kind of hard to get a picture of them. In the summer you don't notice the one as it is over powered by the bigger swirl.


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## Poseidon

Do Abby! I think when I did her using Chris Irwin and I want to say the TTouch book too, I think she came up fairly uninteresting. Very average, but with a slight focusing problem. I'm curious what you say.


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## Army wife

From what I understand, one dead set between the eyes is good, it means a smart horse. Yes, the higher, the smarter but more reactive. The lower, the opposite. As far as the neck goes, the closer to the pole, the more athletic the horse is. Also, the neck cowlicks should be close to even. If not, then the horse will be unbalanced. Like more right side or left side dominant naturally. I find this true for me, because my mare has one dead set between her eyes-she's very smart. She has two even cowlicks up by her poll-she's very athletic and naturally even. My filly on the other hand, has one a little higher then her eyes-pretty overreactive at times, but also too smart for her own good. And of course she has two even cowlicks about 2 inches down her neck. She seems very athletic (still clumsy though) but I have not yet started her so we'll see if that rings true....hopefully she is an exception to this "rule" lol


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## lilkitty90

i think my 2 may be the major exception to this swirl theory, they both have high swirls and are both pretty much non reactive. i'll have to get photos of baby's you cant ever really see hers because her forelock is so long. but i have some of sparta's


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## its lbs not miles

It's all very amusing and fun, but I sincerely hope none of you actually believe any of it and just find it fun to play with. 
If not...... then have your mare lay on her right side while she's pregnant if you want a colt and left for a filly :lol: ....... the darker the feet of your horse the better success they'll have going unshod, but if their feet are light in color you better shoe them because their feet won't be hard enough to go unshod (even had a vet tell me that one over 40 years ago, but I ignored him)...... and let's not forget that the lighter the eye color the weaker the eyes, poorer the eyesight and greater the chance that they'll go blind.
All myths that people have believed at some point.
My paternal grandparents had a load of old wives tales about horses (and other lifestock). My grandfather was wise enough to know they were rubbish, but my gandmother actually believed a lot of them. My poor little QH filly that I was given in 1972 was a doomed animal :lol:... all white, with white feet, blue eyes and a swirl right between her eyes. Yet, that horse would ignor trucks roaring by even when they'd blow the horn. Could shoot a shotgun on her back and she wouldn't bolt. Never had a shoe on her in her life, feet to hard to use a hoof knife on and she never went blind.

More recent I can just as easily use my current 4 and 5 year olds to disprove the swirl myths, but so could all of you if you really thought about it. Their calm personality is a result of breeding, not swirls. Without going into every personality trait any horse has, but keeping it simple, my 4 year old has her swirl almost level with her eyebrow and is about as solid as a rock about spooking. I can walk her to graze along the shoulder and she'll do little more than raise her head to look at a truck as it speeds by (although he doesn't trust bicycles and keeps a close eye on them). My 5 year old's swirl is over 2" above her eyebrow and she gets concerned and a little nervous if a car drives by at 20 MPH. 

It's easy to always find something that matches these myths. That's how they get started to begin with and why so many people use to believe them. My grandmother was a great one for finding reasons why something didn't match her myths when we'd point it out. She clung to her myths like they were a religion :lol: but it made for a lot of fun and entertainment :lol: as it became a favorite passtime to disprove them. Pretty easy to do on a working farm with lots of animals to work with.


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## its lbs not miles

Oops, sorry, I got the swirls mixed. It's my 4 year old (witht he star) that has the high swirl. My 5 year old (with the blaze) has it level with the eyebrown. Discribed them right though
So my 4 year old should be spookier with the high swir,l but isn't. My 5 year old should be calmer with the low swirl, but isn't.


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## its lbs not miles

Can't seem to get my 5 year olds photo to load at this time. The server is not cooperating, but here's the 4 year old. (if finally loaded) 
According to the swirl theory she should be hotter, but she's isn't. Has to do with her Frisian blood. Her swirl could be between her ears and she wouldn't be hot :lol:


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