# Dealing with aggressive dogs?



## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

Ride with a BB gun. That's usually enough to scare a dog away without killing it in my experience
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OuttatheBlue (Dec 8, 2011)

That must have been so scary for you to go through! I'm surprised so many aggressive dogs were able to get loose. What about bringing a BB gun? I've seen many dogs that WANTED to go after my horse, but luckily haven't been put in that position where they were able to before.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Carry mace, I can't stand people who let their dogs run or poorly trained dogs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

perfectly legal to shoot a dog in self defense, just make sure your back stop is safe. Remember bullets never miss they always hit something. Have you shot around your horse ? If he is freaking out over a barking dog whats he gonna do when the gun goes off?
Maybe a good large can of OC pepper spray? Works pretty well you can OC the loose dog, then OC the owner when he gets stupid on you for OC'ing his dog. 
Ask me how I know about that.


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## OuttatheBlue (Dec 8, 2011)

Joe4d said:


> perfectly legal to shoot a dog in self defense, just make sure your back stop is safe. Remember bullets never miss they always hit something. Have you shot around your horse ? If he is freaking out over a barking dog whats he gonna do when the gun goes off?
> Maybe a good large can of OC pepper spray? Works pretty well you can OC the loose dog, then OC the owner when he gets stupid on you for OC'ing his dog.
> Ask me how I know about that.


I'll ask!


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

exactly that, illegaly loose dog in a public park jogging trail, dog kept circling behind, me trying to bite the back of my legs, so I pepper sprayed him. Owner got stupid, I told him he shoulda kept his dog on a leash, owner acted in threatening manner so he got pepper sprayed too. Called cops when I got home, reported loose dog, and threatening owner. Was last I heard of it.


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## xXSerendipityXx (Jan 26, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> ...owner acted in threatening manner so he got pepper sprayed too...QUOTE]
> 
> LOL!^^
> Just scare the dogs away somehow. I dont think theres a need to kill them, but a nice hoof to the face wouldnt be completely your fault..(x I like this pepper spray idea - Sounds fun:twisted: I have this this stuff called DirectX - its for wild animals, I bring it camping &stuff, but Im pretty sure its just citronella - dogs HATE it. And its pretty cheap too. A baseball bat would work, too


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

we carry Mace. We ride out to the lake and around it a whole bunch and you never know who or whats out there! I would carry a gun but due to passed injurys I cant shoot well and wouldnt want to be in a sitution where its pointing back at me... But my boyfriend carries one when we hike and pack.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I've been assaulted by loose dogs several times in the Cherokee and the Cohutta's.

It's a much bigger problem than many believe, and fortunately I've never gotten bit and never had to shoot.

Still, a charging, growling, barking dog is an assault, and the cops should treat it as such.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Radly said:


> I was thinking about riding with my 9mm on my hip *but then I have to deal with the police for killing a dog*.:wink:
> 
> Stephen


Stephen, first of all, your safety, your horse's safety, and that of innocent bystanders comes above all.

Secondly, in just about every state there are laws justifying the killing of aggressive dogs when they are threatening, attacking, or harassing people or livestock. I know my state's law on that chapter and verse and I will pull the trigger on an aggressive dog no questions asked.

Let the cops come. Who cares? 

If my horse broke loose because of an aggressive dog I'd be beyond furious, and would be apt to shoot the dog right in front of his owner. Plus I have more ammo in case the owner gets uppity enough.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

xXSerendipityXx said:


> Just scare the dogs away somehow. I dont think theres a need to kill them,


You don't think there's a need to kill them? How sweet.......

I disagree and my state's law is on my side.


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## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

mildot said:


> Plus I have more ammo in case the owner gets uppity enough.


That is like.. the best line ever.. haha. Wouldn't need it for the dogs, if the owners would be responsible.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Tapperjockey said:


> That is like.. the best line ever.. haha. Wouldn't need it for the dogs, if the owners would be responsible.


There's a good reason why my pistol of choice is a Glock 17.


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## xXSerendipityXx (Jan 26, 2012)

mildot said:


> You don't think there's a need to kill them? How sweet.......


Are you being sarcastic?
No I dont think so, because if it were my dog, I wouldnt want some trigger happy horse rider shooting the crap out of her..
But it depends on how aggressive. If the dog is actually biting the horse, then yes. Heck, throw a bomb at it if you want. The stupid irresponsible owners would totally deserve it. Save a bomb for them, too!
Where I live people dont ride horses on beaches. Let alone beaches full of unleashed and crazy dogs. 
@ the OP: I would stay away from that beach from now on, no need to get yourself or your horse hurt because of all the idiot dog owners in the world.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

xXSerendipityXx said:


> Are you being sarcastic?
> No I dont think so, because if it were my dog, I wouldnt want some trigger happy horse rider shooting the crap out of her..
> But it depend on how aggressive. If the dog is actually biting the horse, then yes. Heck, throw a bomb at it if you want.
> Where I live people dont ride horses on beaches. Let alone beaches full of unleashed and crazy dogs.
> @ the OP: I say stay away from that beach from now on, if you really want to avoid the aggressive dogs.


No. I'm not being sarcastic.

It doesn't matter what you want or don't want, at least in my state. If your dog is harassing livestock (which horses are), they are fair game to be killed. And the only opinion that matters regarding what is harassment or not is that of the livestock's owner.

Finally, no, if I were the OP I would not stay away from a perfectly good place to ride just because some idiot decides to let his dogs run lose. I'd take care of the problem dog permanently if it came for me or my horse.


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## xXSerendipityXx (Jan 26, 2012)

No need to be so rude to me...
I just dont see why a dog should have to die because someone couldnt keep it on a **** leash.


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

Any force necessary. I have kicked a few dogs coming after my horse, a pointed boot to the ribs works pretty good...riding crops work well too.

I typically will charge any dog that is coming at me while I'm riding. Jake doesn't spook away and will run over any dog that gets in his way. I was once riding with a friend and we were charged by 3 dogs that came out of a garage. I turned Jake towards them and set him off at a trot towards them, they backed off and went for my friends horse, who sadly dumped the her and took off down the road. Luckily I managed to block the dogs and chase them back and the mare came right back to her owner who had pretty bad road rash. 

The owners ended up supplying first aid, and helped drive me back and forth so I could take both horses back to the stables and took my friend home while they promised to never let the dogs off leash again. So I never got mad about it, they learned their lesson. 

I have dogs that I take on trail myself. They never bark, chase or even go near any other horse than my own. If I see other people with horses I go off the trail, let them know I have dogs with me (so if their horses are spooky), both dogs sit next to me and I let the other people pass. So I don't mind well trained dogs around horses in the least.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

xXSerendipityXx said:


> I just dont see why a dog should have to die because someone couldnt keep it on a **** leash.


You missed the point. The dog is not to be killed because he's off a leash. It is to be killed for what it does when it is off the leash.

This is such an important concept in law that is has been codified in most states

Lawriter - ORC - 955.28 Dog may be killed for certain acts - owner liable for damages.


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## xXSerendipityXx (Jan 26, 2012)

mildot said:


> You missed the point. The dog is not to be killed because he's off a leash. It is to be killed for what it does when it is off the leash.
> 
> This is such an important concept in law that is has been codified in most states
> 
> ...


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## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

xXSerendipityXx said:


> No I dont think so, because if it were my dog, I wouldnt want some trigger happy horse rider shooting the crap out of her..


Then I suggest containing your dog, and not allowing them to become a menace to other people and their animals


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## xXSerendipityXx (Jan 26, 2012)

Tapperjockey said:


> Then I suggest containing your dog, and not allowing them to become a menace to other people and their animals


No worries. My CHIHUAHUA is always on a leash(x


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

Okay people, time to calm down, go back to the topic and stop talking about age and who knows better - both ways. Please remember that Horseforum.com is for constructive discussion.

Regards,
the Horseforum.com Team


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

xXSerendipityXx said:


> Hey, since the law is on your side, feel free to kill as many dogs as you want. And when they make a new law that its okay to steal, Ill be sure to do that too. Because even though its wrong, I wont get in trouble for it, so its all good.
> Stop talking down to me because you think Im younger than you.


And when a dog attacks your child at a time when you're there with a weapon I'm sure you're going to worry about the well being of the dog?

I've had dogs attack a horse, and draw blood. I've shot same dogs later when they made the mistake of coming after my horse when I was going out to hunt, so I had a shotgun with me at the time. And while the shot didn't kill the dog I hit (number 6 field shot), it was just because I a light round for the hunting I was doing. And dog that my mare kicked didn't die only because she caught him on the side and not the head. Owner called cops. I showed deputy my horses rear pastern and that was the end of his questions for me. Funny, I never saw those dogs out on that dirt road again. Probably shoud have gone hunting down there earlier and taken care of it before any horses got bitten to begin with.

No, it's not the dogs fault, it's the owners. But if the owners are not willing to maintain their dogs safely then they must accept what happens.

If my dogs had no manners, were allowed to run loose and killed any of a neighbors stock then I'm liable. If my neighbor kills my dog to protect his stock then he's perfectly correct in doing so. People who are going to own animals have to learn and accept the obligations that comes with owning that animal. If not, then don't own one.


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

Did you locate the dog owner? It might be an isolated incident, not making it right but....Things do happen.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It may be legal to shoot a dog that aggressively attacks you, but if you can do so without actually killing it, wouldn't you prefer that? Such as an airsoft pellet gun (don't make much noise so maybe wouldn't spook the horse so badly).


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## xXSerendipityXx (Jan 26, 2012)

its lbs not miles said:


> And when a dog attacks your child at a time when you're there with a weapon I'm sure you're going to worry about the well being of the dog?
> 
> I've had dogs attack a horse, and draw blood. I've shot same dogs later when they made the mistake of coming after my horse when I was going out to hunt, so I had a shotgun with me at the time. And while the shot didn't kill the dog I hit (number 6 field shot), it was just because I a light round for the hunting I was doing. And dog that my mare kicked didn't die only because she caught him on the side and not the head. Owner called cops. I showed deputy my horses rear pastern and that was the end of his questions for me. Funny, I never saw those dogs out on that dirt road again. Probably shoud have gone hunting down there earlier and taken care of it before any horses got bitten to begin with.
> 
> ...


As Ive said, it depends on how aggressive. If you or anything is actually getting attacked, then yes - do whatever it takes. But alot of dogs dont see many horses, &when they do, maybe they just get excited. So why shoot it if theres a way to get them to leave without getting so violent.
Id kill a dog in a heartbeat if I really needed to, but for one that just SEEMED aggressive….....


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

I don't think anyone was immature, except for a few snarky and bullish remarks. As a forum there are all ages who post here so we need to be open to many different ways people relate experiences and thoughts. Being a bully is just as bad as displaying immaturity. 

I happen to agree that driving the dog away is a better choice. Lest perhaps it is seriously going to hurt someone or an animal. But just to go off and shoot a dog who is barking at you is excessive.


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## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

Frankly I'd just say the horse needs to be desentitized more, especially if all the dog did was bark and run at it. My mare doesn't much bat an eye at my border collie running up behind her, swinging from her tail, running right under her. 

Now if some stranger dog came up and acted aggressive, she'd give them a hoof to the face. One of her favorite games is 'let's trample the dog' which we actively play any time some stranger dog comes around getting in our way.

Just was well, bringing my own dog along with me when riding helps too. She runs loose, she runs all the coyotes and foxes we might see. She also keeps back other dogs, she'll either fight them or just distract them until the horse and I are farther away.

Edit to add that I agree with the above poster, driving the dog away is a much better method than just shooting it just because it spooked your horse.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Pyrros said:


> *Frankly I'd just say the horse needs to be desentitized more, especially if all the dog did was bark and run at it. My mare doesn't much bat an eye at my border collie running up behind her, swinging from her tail, running right under her. *
> 
> Now if some stranger dog came up and acted aggressive, she'd give them a hoof to the face. One of her favorite games is 'let's trample the dog' which we actively play any time some stranger dog comes around getting in our way.
> 
> ...


Out of curiosity, why have you not trained your dog to behave more appropriately around horses?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the horse may have reacted more explosively due to the size of the dog; a Great Dane is more the size of a pony or mini, and our horses are really scared of minis.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> It may be legal to shoot a dog that aggressively attacks you, but if you can do so without actually killing it, wouldn't you prefer that? Such as an airsoft pellet gun (don't make much noise so maybe wouldn't spook the horse so badly).


That is actually illegal to intentionally hurt a dog. Yeh I know sounds screwy but that is the law. 
Recent case in VA guy shot a neighbors dog that had killed his chickens. Only problem was he used number 8 shot.
Prosecution proved he was knowledgeable about guns, knew about ammo, and intentionally hurt the dog. SO guilty of animal cruelty and stuck with vet bills. While it woulda been perfectly legal if he'd had used buckshot ,It is illegal to cause undue pain and suffering even if the dog is attacking your livestock. 
So moral of the story is NO you never shoot to injure,


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

BaileyJo said:


> But just to go off and shoot a dog who is barking at you is excessive.


Exaggeration and hyperbole do not help you make your case.

Did you even read the law link I posted?


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> It may be legal to shoot a dog that aggressively attacks you, but if you can do so without actually killing it, wouldn't you prefer that? Such as an airsoft pellet gun (don't make much noise so maybe wouldn't spook the horse so badly).


I would prefer to be left alone by dogs and their owners. And I would prefer they pay a heavy price for the behavior of their obnoxious and aggressive animals.

I have had personal, unpleasant experiences with this topic which is why I no longer give any quarter or mercy.

That's all I will say about that.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> That is actually illegal to intentionally hurt a dog. Yeh I know sounds screwy but that is the law.
> Recent case in VA guy shot a neighbors dog that had killed his chickens. Only problem was he used number 8 shot.
> Prosecution proved he was knowledgeable about guns, knew about ammo, and intentionally hurt the dog. SO guilty of animal cruelty and stuck with vet bills. While it woulda been perfectly legal if he'd had used buckshot ,It is illegal to cause undue pain and suffering even if the dog is attacking your livestock.
> So moral of the story is NO you never shoot to injure,


 

That's pretty crazy. Those lawyers no doubt figured it out .
one could just as easily injure a dog when using real buckshot if you didnt' get off a good shot, and then , I guess they could sue you. Sure can't seem to win on that.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Joe4d said:


> That is actually illegal to intentionally hurt a dog. Yeh I know sounds screwy but that is the law.
> Recent case in VA guy shot a neighbors dog that had killed his chickens. Only problem was he used number 8 shot.
> Prosecution proved he was knowledgeable about guns, knew about ammo, and intentionally hurt the dog. SO guilty of animal cruelty and stuck with vet bills. While it woulda been perfectly legal if he'd had used buckshot ,It is illegal to cause undue pain and suffering even if the dog is attacking your livestock.
> So moral of the story is NO you never shoot to injure,


classic case of a law made for good reasons that forces bad results. They were so concerned with making a law to protect a dog from being hurt. They make it illegal to deliberately cause an injury so that the only recourse is to deliberately kill the animal. Wonder how many dog owners would rather have their animal just hurt vs killed? While I'd understand if a neighbor killed my mastiff is she attacked their stock, I would personally rather she got sent home with a load of #8 in her butt. Fortunately I don't have to worry about it, because she knows to leave things alone and actually enjoys being around stock.

I'd have probably won the case in my shooting (if there had been a case), because I was hunting and my prey was small game, so that's the kind of shot I had vs activly loading light to only cause injury (#8 shot won't do for rabbit but the the #6 will and it put hurting on the dog). Lucky for the dog I wasn't deer hunting.

Loved that mare. Best job of training I ever did. She was use to dogs barking. Even when the dog bit her she didn't spook. She certainly kicked the ---- out of one of the dogs and kept kicking as they kept trying for her legs. But it was the shotgun blast and yalping shot dog that caused them to break off.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I've had some bad experiences with aggresive dogs off lease, too, but fortuneatly, they are the minority. However, I still see people walking their dogs in the equestrian park off leash (against rules.) wish I could somehow fine them and make it stick, but I cannot do more than yell at them.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Love the mace idea...my son carries a bb pistol...


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I am an animal lover to the core, but when push comes to shove I would much rather injure and/or kill a dog than have that same dog injure or kill my horse or myself. I use only what force is appropriate for the situation but would have zero hesitation to use lethal force if that is what I deemed necessary for the situation at hand.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I've had some bad experiences with aggresive dogs off lease, too, but fortuneatly, they are the minority. However, I still see people walking their dogs in the equestrian park off leash (against rules.) wish I could somehow fine them and make it stick, but I cannot do more than yell at them.


I'd do what I've done to stray dogs in the fields where I ride. I sic Calypso on them. If she catches them and stomps them into the dirt....oh well....horses being horses I guess.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> That's pretty crazy. Those lawyers no doubt figured it out .
> one could just as easily injure a dog when using real buckshot if you didnt' get off a good shot, and then , I guess they could sue you. Sure can't seem to win on that.


wasnt so much as getting off a good shot, but about intent, if you are out and about and all you have is #6 shot u are doing the best you can its defense. In this guys case he knew exactly what he was doing, had other guns and ammo available but (at least how it was described in the paper) he intentionall used bird shot to punish the dog and make it suffer. I think soem of the statements he made to the effect is what got him,

When dealing with defense cases animal or people, 
I feared for my life or grievous bodily injury, or I feared for my animals life or injury, I want a lawyer, and then SHUT UP.


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## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

It's sad some dogs have such reckless and irresponsible owners *sigh*


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

like I tell the people who call these kind of things in to 911.....

and they ask the age old question "can I shoot it"

I can not advise you to do that, but you can do whatever you feel is necessary to keep you safe.


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## MysticL (Sep 5, 2011)

Unfortunately no domestic dog is born aggressive, people make them that way through various means. Some people find it an ego boost to have a big mean dog with a big mean bite. And what disgusts me is that they are STILL irresponsible enough to let them loose in a public area. And I personally would not want to shoot a dog (or any creature because that is just me) but so help me God if you put my horse or me or even MY dogs in danger. Imagine if there was a child involved? If your dog is aggressive and / or you cant control it then (A) you should not own one and (B) and if you are stupid enough to own one that you can't control you should have it contained. on some of our beaches we are allowed dogs on leash, sometimes off leash. I own Yorkshire Terriers and mine are allowed to run loose because they are well socialised and friendly. I always worry about other dogs though because one bite and mine would be dead. In our country we have a certain indivual who is a self proclaimed "dog whisperer". to date there have been TWO incidents with his dogs in a public area where they have attacked a child. one was a Rotweiller in a public restaurant and a young 4 year old girl walks past and the dog attacks her...it was caught on tape (I will post it because it is a public video). As far as I know the dog is still alive. a month or so ago the same guy took a big dog to a NON DOG beach OFF LEASH and it attacked another child causing severe injury and the 2 year old child had to undergo 4 hours of surgery...the dog is still alive. The photo below is also off the internet. How does one justify THAT? A dog that is aggressive and able to cause injury to people and other animals should not be in public. Those that have aggressively killed or injured someone or an animal should be humanely euthoanised (which often involves being shot) 





 








A dog is a predator (a domestic one but a predator nonetheless) and a horse is a flight or fight creature. They will flee first and then fight as a last resort and the natural instinct of any predator is to chase it down. Where are people's sense to let a dog (especially that size) do that? I suppose im "farting against thunder" asking that because some people just dont have sense. 

I had 2 Great Danes run out at me the other day - they were actually attacking the 2 Great Danes at the fence across the road but I just so happened to be in the middle of them all. My horse, being an OTTB fresh off the track, has never seen such a huge dog and luckily someone stopped their car to help me and chase them away. when i am 16.3hh off the ground with a short crop in hand i think it would be difficult to control my horse AND defend him. 

I think the sound of my BB gun would freak my horse out at this point but mace / pepper spray is a good idea. Just make sure it is the one that shoots in a stream NOT a mist of you will end up macing yourself and your horse! 

I carry a stungun in my car for protection...It is powerful enough to knock a large man out cold so I reckon it would help stop the biggest dog in its tracks if you could get close enough to make contact! Some of them though you don't have to make a physical contact to stun someone or something. 

As far as I am aware where I stay it is illegal to kill a dog. Normally a dog that has attacked will be put to sleep by police order / court. If I was to kill my neighbours dog for example and not be able to prove it was ready to kill me I would be charged. 

I think in this case when the horse is already running and the dog is chasing, shooting might just be a bad idea?? 

Im an animal lover, I would never hurt an innocent animal. But then again I would never go and murder an innocent person. but WOULD I kill a person who was threatening to kill me? Yes. So would I kill an animal that was threatening to injure or kill me? Yes. It would a different thing if you just went walking through the bush to take revenge and killed dogs that were doing no harm. Remember, a dog that is looking aggressive but retreating is not a threat. One that is actively attacking it's victim IS.


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## MysticL (Sep 5, 2011)

I just read that the dog I spoke of has been PTS. It was the same dog in both instances. He was PTS on 1 Feb 2012 but was allowed BACK into public after the first incident. Our SPCA said that there is not such thing as a dangerous dog, just a dangerous owner and that the dog pays the ultimate price for the person's irresponsibility.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I didn't go through all responses, so I'm responding to the original post only. 

I know some people carry a whip when they ride for this purpose. There was a story on my local forum, when pitbull attacked a lady and her horse (I believe she was riding with her grandkid as well). So she dismounted and just used her whip straight on dog. Definitely worked!

I've been lucky enough (hmmmm....) having horses that are over-protective. My neighbor's dogs are very loud and run close sometime (which I find to be a great desensitizing! they are harmless BTW, just noisy :wink: ). My qh most of the time doesn't care for barking, my paint either tries to strike or kick out (I'm always terrified she'll hit the dog). On trails when there is a loose dog I ALWAYS tell the owner that my horse can hurt or even kill the dog (which is no kidding on my side). You won't believe how fast the dog is usually restrained.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

kitten_Val said:


> I didn't go through all responses, so I'm responding to the original post only.
> 
> I know some people carry a whip when they ride for this purpose. There was a story on my local forum, when pitbull attacked a lady and her horse (I believe she was riding with her grandkid as well). So she dismounted and just used her whip straight on dog. Definitely worked!
> 
> I've been lucky enough (hmmmm....) having horses that are over-protective. My neighbor's dogs are very loud and run close sometime (which I find to be a great desensitizing! they are harmless BTW, just noisy :wink: ). My qh most of the time doesn't care for barking, my paint either tries to strike or kick out (I'm always terrified she'll hit the dog). *On trails when there is a loose dog I ALWAYS tell the owner that my horse can hurt or even kill the dog (which is no kidding on my side). You won't believe how fast the dog is usually restrained. *




That is how I have always handled it also. The owners cannot get their dog back to them fast enough.:wink: It also may help to make them think twice next time they decide to let their dog loose on horse trails next time too.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

For the OP. 

I've found being personally aggressive towards a dog will stop most of them. By this I mean get in their face, tell them to knock it off and go home. They really are concentrating on your horse and to have a human suddenly tell them to get lost can help change their mindset. For those that it doesn't work for, you have to get physical (if on the ground) to stop them.

If you are on your horse, face your horse towards the dog. Dogs don't much like it when "prey" suddenly turns to face them and it makes them stop to think. At that point, tell the dog to get lost. If that doesn't work it's time to go after the dog with your horse. They do recognize 50# vs. 1200# is not a fair fight.

Last of all for those who don't think it's fair to injure or kill an aggressive dog. What the OP described could of just as easily ended up with her injured or killed by her own horse. Dead person vs. dead dog, which side of the debate do you come down on?


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Ken McNabb has a good video on this. He had a client who was thrown and took months to recover from injuries and HER horse was spooked by a strange dog and bolted. HIS advice was to get together with another horse owner who has a disciplined dog used to horses and retrain the horse. You will get hurt by your horse if this happens again and you are aboard.
They discovered that it didn't take too long for the horse to get over the fear--he had forgotten a lot of the fear already. He also trained the horse to aggressively go after the dog. MY horses deal with my dogs on a daily basis. They are all friends. Sometimes my dogs are too aggressive and my horses turn, lower their heads and chase them off.
Guns are great BUT it's just another thing that you'll have to train your horse to handle. I have trained about 15 horses successfully to guns. (My horses who were used to gunfire helped me IMMENSELY.) Speaking of which, if you could have another horse not afraid of dogs in your sessions that will help a lot, too. Hope this helps, and I'm GLAD you didn't get hurt. =D


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## OuttatheBlue (Dec 8, 2011)

MysticL said:


> Unfortunately no domestic dog is born aggressive, people make them that way through various means. Some people find it an ego boost to have a big mean dog with a big mean bite. And what disgusts me is that they are STILL irresponsible enough to let them loose in a public area. And I personally would not want to shoot a dog (or any creature because that is just me) but so help me God if you put my horse or me or even MY dogs in danger. Imagine if there was a child involved? If your dog is aggressive and / or you cant control it then (A) you should not own one and (B) and if you are stupid enough to own one that you can't control you should have it contained. on some of our beaches we are allowed dogs on leash, sometimes off leash. I own Yorkshire Terriers and mine are allowed to run loose because they are well socialised and friendly. I always worry about other dogs though because one bite and mine would be dead. In our country we have a certain indivual who is a self proclaimed "dog whisperer". to date there have been TWO incidents with his dogs in a public area where they have attacked a child. one was a Rotweiller in a public restaurant and a young 4 year old girl walks past and the dog attacks her...it was caught on tape (I will post it because it is a public video). As far as I know the dog is still alive. a month or so ago the same guy took a big dog to a NON DOG beach OFF LEASH and it attacked another child causing severe injury and the 2 year old child had to undergo 4 hours of surgery...the dog is still alive. The photo below is also off the internet. How does one justify THAT? A dog that is aggressive and able to cause injury to people and other animals should not be in public. Those that have aggressively killed or injured someone or an animal should be humanely euthoanised (which often involves being shot)


That dog owner disgusts me. Those poor children.



Darrin said:


> For the OP.
> 
> I've found being personally aggressive towards a dog will stop most of them. By this I mean get in their face, tell them to knock it off and go home. They really are concentrating on your horse and to have a human suddenly tell them to get lost can help change their mindset. For those that it doesn't work for, you have to get physical (if on the ground) to stop them.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. I work at a dog kennel and from I have observed from dog fights/one dog attacking another dog or person randomly there are different kind of dogs that this would work with and some it would not. Almost all of the dogs that would be attacking would be a nervous/unstable dog, which the above would work on (even yelling or throwing something at it). The other type of dog (much more rare) this would not stop and you would need backup (something to physically turn them away) especially if your horse doesn't want to run at the dog. To me that would take a lot of trust between rider and horse, but not impossible. I think there's a story somewhere about where a woman and her horse played chicken with a BEAR and won!

I'm sure it's been mentioned but the WORST thing to do would be to run away.

I'm not a violent person, but I would not think twice about killing a dog going after a person, horse or my dog. I have seen too many nasty wounds resulted from dog attacks. Of course I would start with trying to deter the dog with less violent means, but if it's out for blood I would be too. Luckily I have never been put in that position with a horse, and I hope my good luck continues!


Reading some of the stories on this thread affirms my belief that 50% of dog owners should NOT have dogs...


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

OuttatheBlue said:


> Reading some of the stories on this thread affirms my belief that 50% of dog owners should NOT have dogs...


Agreed. Spay and neuter, ad nauseum.


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## tanya (Mar 30, 2011)

I say mace the owners its not the dogs fault they havent been trained. If it happens again try to get video and turn the owners in then mace the **** dog. Good luck and be careful


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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

People just don't care enough to be suitable dog owners a lot of the time. They buy as a cute puppy, leave it alone in the backyard 99% of the time and wonder why it grew up to attack people. Even aggressive dogs that are encouraged to protect the property are capable of yielding on command but I don't see many people put in the time to teach this. 

It has become a big problem in my area so I've to teach my horse to charge dogs when we come across loose aggressive ones. The dogs we used to have at home were real gentle and quiet so she was never scared of them but she would be nervous if a dog barked at her out on the trail. 

I started by standing her next to a fence of barking, snarling dogs. We would just stand there and relax. I'd even let her eat. Towards the dogs/ with her back to the dogs. She stopped flinching when she realized they couldn't hurt her. Then we would practice driving away our own dogs at home, who would gladly get out of the way of horse legs. She became a lot more confident with dogs and how to get them out of her space.

I've had to chase dogs plenty of times. and Luckily for us ALL have ran away. I know they can tell that she will seriously trample them. The good thing for me is that plenty have remembered not to mess with my horse. They will still bark at her but they will stay away from her legs or I will command her to go after them. 

A couple weeks ago we ran into a couple of very aggressive dogs and I was proud of my horse for how she handled herself. There were two and they RAN from around a corner in front of us and barked / snarled and circled her, getting far too close to her legs. She was nervous but she stayed in one spot waiting for me to let her attack them Lol. Turns out the dogs were on a walk and the owner was right behind. I yelled at him he better collect his dogs or they are getting squished.


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## Radly (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm surprised at the number of posts, that support using lethal force to deal with aggressive dogs. In this PC world its refreshing to see that people will stand up and protect them self and there animals. I personally would never want to kill, but would not have a problem if myself or my animals were in danger.
Here in Maine it's leagal to open carry. The horse I had at the beach yesterday is fine with gun shots, fireworks ect. I've dune some training for cowboy shooting events with him.
In the past when I've been confronted by aggressive dogs I'll turn my horse around and run the dog down as if I was chasing a calf. The next time I'm on the beach I'll have my rope. 
That's going to be a sight, me heal roping a dog and dragging it back to the owner. LOL


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm sorry, but if there was an aggressive looking dog coming towards my horse and I felt as though it was going to "attack", he'd be a dead dog. I'll give that dog PLENTY of chances to stay away, yell at it, everything..but if he pushes too close, he'll be pushing daisies...I like bb guns, air soft guns, but my favorite is a paint ball gun. If you shoot the dog with a paint ball gun the owner is likely to see the paint and maybe keep their dog closer to home..If they even care about the dog...

We've shot more than a few loose dogs that come on our property and start to harass our animals..End of story. If the owner comes looking they can go find it's body in the ditch on the other side of the pond.


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## tanya (Mar 30, 2011)

I love animals and I have my fair share. 2 dogs, 3 horses, 1 cat, and 8 chickens, but if another animal comes on my land threating them or my family darn straight I will dispose of it. If it is a nuisance I will contact the owner and if they are unknown they will go to the pound.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Corporal said:


> Agreed. Spay and neuter, ad nauseum.


I do hope you are including the owners in that.


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## Nitefeatherz (Jan 23, 2012)

I can never believe the number of people who don't care
that their dog is charging, barking and growling at someone. The only thing more unbelievable is the number of people who watch their dog do the same thing and think its funny and sweet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I have alot of blaze orange and reflective tack. I also was wearing a blaze orange coat today. Every single jogger/ dog combo I came up on today at the park had ahold of their dog and off the trail, or on a very short leash. This is a park where frequently dogs run loose with bikers and joggers. Never really had an agression problem but the people are frequently chasing and trying to catch their dogs around the horses. One lady made the comment as I rode past, "We sure could see you coming". Kinda clicked at the difference. All the orange actually was making a difference and helping the dog owners. There is so much black and brown in the horse world and we ride on wooded trails. Many of these biker/joggers are wearing earbuds so dont hear us. A bit of orange can go a long way to helping everyone get along.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Darrin said:


> I do hope you are including the owners in that.


If it was legal...I would.


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## Turndial (Jan 14, 2012)

I have 2 dogs that are not used to horses and that walk on a lead on roads and run free in fields and parks. Whenever we see riders, my little dog will yelp and bark like someone is murdering her and hide behind me and my big dog will just continue doing his sniffing thing in the brush not bothered at all. 

The problem is, this little yappy dog could be taken as aggressive when in reality she is terrified.. Would you shoot or mace her because she was scaring your horse? 

Don't go 'guns blazing' hurting a possibly nervous or scared animal because you or your horse feels threatened. See if you can deal with it in a less violent way first.. 

OP - in your situation, I would have gone guns blazing. Great Danes are meant to be big docile beautiful dogs, whoever owns them should be shot!

Before anyone questions my dogs behavioural issues, I promise we have tried almost everything and when I return from Oz I am getting a 'dog whisperer' to see if that will help.. she is nervous and scared all the time and we don't know why and have tried everything to fix it.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Turndial said:


> I have 2 dogs that are not used to horses and that walk on a lead on roads and run free in fields and parks. Whenever we see riders, my little dog will yelp and bark like someone is murdering her and hide behind me and my big dog will just continue doing his sniffing thing in the brush not bothered at all.
> 
> The problem is, this little yappy dog could be taken as aggressive when in reality she is terrified.. Would you shoot or mace her because she was scaring your horse?
> 
> ...


None of which is the problem of the person on the horse *shrugs* YOUR dog is your responsibility, just as their horse is their's. If you want to assure your dog's safety, do just that - assure their safety by having them under your control when you encounter others. A dog that is truly just hiding behind you is not going to be taken as a dog that is aggressively approaching a mounted rider.


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## Turndial (Jan 14, 2012)

themacpack said:


> A dog that is truly just hiding behind you is not going to be taken as a dog that is aggressively approaching a mounted rider.


And as I said.. because you or your horse feels threatened.

Aggression can be interpreted differently for different people. My dog barking at a horse going by can be considered aggressive. I'm not irresponsible enough to not have my dogs under control as much as I can but it's the rider that may think they're not. 

We've all experienced that total moron when we are out with our animals who leaps out of their skin at the sight of a dog/horse/cat/ferret/elephant.. who's to say that moron isn't a rider in some instances? are we OK for them to shoot on sight?


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Turndial, let me see if I can explain this to you.

Here in the US, generally the use of deadly force is reviewed from the point of view of a reasonable person in the shoes of the person that used the deadly force.

If a rider is mounted on a horse that is terrified of your barking dog and the horse's actions are such that they place the rider in a position that he starts to fear death OR severe injury, he becomes justified in using deadly force to stop whatever it is that is generating that situation.

I think it's beyond argument that being on top of a horse that's losing his mind would place any reasonable person in fear of severe injury.

It matters not why your dog barks at horses. It only matters the effect it has on horses.

Now this is an extreme example. Most horses don't lose their mind because a dog is barking at them in the distance. 

We can play what ifs till the cows come home. But in the end, the rider's fear of death or severe injury at the moment the trigger was pulled, and the circumstances that led to that point, is what the prosecutors will consider when reviewing the case.

The reasons why the dog scares the horse will be irrelevant.

And as I have already showed, my state has already codified the lawfulness of killing a dog that is worrying or harassing livestock. Most other American states have similar laws.

The bottom line is this: the onus to prevent these conflicts from happening rest ENTIRELY on the shoulders of dog owners. Whether you find that fair or unfair is not really relevant.


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## Turndial (Jan 14, 2012)

I agree with your bottom line. 

My thoughts are not about fairness, they are about perspective. What one considers aggression, another will consider fear. 

What you are saying is that It's ok to shoot, as long as the animals behavior is affecting the horse in a negative or life threatening manner according to how the rider interprets the reaction of them or their horse towards the animal.

My bottom line is that We cannot instantly presume that the dog is at fault.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Radly (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm going to give the animal control officer that's responsible for this area a call and see what he has to say about what happened. I've talked with him be for and he's a nice guy. I'll let you all know what he says.
As a side note I pay for a permit to ride on the beach.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Turndial said:


> What you are saying is that It's ok to shoot, as long as the animals behavior is affecting the horse in a negative or life threatening manner according to how the rider interprets the reaction of them or their horse towards the animal.


I'm not saying that. The law and jurisprudence of virtually all US states say that.



Turndial said:


> My bottom line is that We cannot instantly presume that the dog is at fault.


Who exactly should be presumed to be at fault? A prey animal? Get real. Why do you think laws regarding loose dogs and livestock are written the way they are?


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Radly said:


> I'm going to give the animal control officer that's responsible for this area a call and see what he has to say about what happened. I've talked with him be for and he's a nice guy. I'll let you all know what he says.
> As a side note I pay for a permit to ride on the beach.


That's a good step to take.

And yes, I'd be doubly ****ed if I the day I paid for was ruined by someone's dog.


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## Radly (Jan 17, 2012)

And it's an hour drive each way


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Turndial said:


> I agree with your bottom line.
> 
> My thoughts are not about fairness, they are about perspective. What one considers aggression, another will consider fear.
> 
> ...


A horse and most people can't tell the difference between fear barking and aggressive barking. They also can't tell the difference between fear biting and aggressive bititng. Barking is barking and biting is biting.

As for who is responsible? Not sure who it could be if it's not the dogs owner. I would like to hear some elaboration on that one.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Turndial said:


> I agree with your bottom line.
> 
> My thoughts are not about fairness, they are about perspective. What one considers aggression, another will consider fear.
> 
> ...


No the owner is at fault, but unless the owner is causing the life or death situation there's not much can be done to them. The owner, by whatever means (e.g. neglecting to manage the dog, etc...) is at fault, but the dog is posing the threat. So the dog pays the price. I have dogs and horses. My dog has in her lifetime reacted agressively towards horses (when she was 6 months old and already over 60 lbs). Fortunately it was with horses only and under conditions that I had control over (part of a training process I do with my dogs and horses). As the owner it was my job to correct this. If she had remain unmannered it would be my fault. But my fault or not, if her behavior caused a problem then she would suffer the consequences for my failure as her owner. Of course I should also be held accountable, but I don't write the laws and in some cases it's just the animal that pays the unlimate price.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Turndial said:


> I agree with your bottom line.
> 
> My thoughts are not about fairness, they are about perspective. What one considers aggression, another will consider fear.
> 
> ...


No, but their stupid owner may be. I also have little yappy dogs. One, is great around horses and at the barn-he gets to be my barn buddy. He is quiet and stays close to me, but keeps his distance from the horses. The stupid yappy older one-stays home. Period. And this is PRIVATE barn with trails. I do not want her scaring/chasing the horse, nor do I want to have to watch her constantly or have her getting kicked. She is a terrier, so there is NO changing who she is at 14 yrs old. As an owner, I KNOW MY DOG, and make appropriate choices for her and with her. I also do not take her on long walks because I don't want to listen to her nor should anyone else have to. I have a fenced yard, and she can run there. It is my belief that as an owner you owe that to your pet. YOu do not need to take "poopsie" to the park because they are sooooo cuuuuutteee and you want everyone to see them.

WE have a responsibility as dog owners not to put them in situations they have no business being in. If you have an aggressive dog-I would suggest you keep it close. VERY close, on a tight leash. I will yell a warning to the owner, but I am a firm believer in "if it is me or them, it sure as He!! won't be me.":wink:


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## pepperduck (Feb 14, 2008)

I think the mace is a good idea, however you need to be close in order to mace, which can be hard to do if you have an aggressive dog. I have no problem shooting a dog if it was truly being aggressive (just make sure you have all the right permits to carry a weapon). My parents used to carry a hockey stick when they went rollerblading because an aggressive dog would come out and chase them. 

To someone that said you should desensitize your horse more, thats easier said than done. There is so much out in the world its impossible to desensitize to everything. For example, I thought my horse was great around dogs. She was used to big dogs (labs, dobermans, poodles, shepherds, lots of bigs dogs), and some small dogs (beagles and puppies mostly). Then one day a fluffy little Pomeranian came over to my house and you would have thought the devil has been released next to the pasture. My horse freaked out, running around her pasture, snorting, wouldn't go anywhere near the fence line. The dog was standing next to the fence and would let out little yips which was apparently my horses worst nightmare come true. lol. My point is, you can desensitize your horse only so much, its impossible to give them exposure to everything.


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## lilbit11011 (Apr 15, 2010)

I have dealt with too many stupid, uncaring, ignorant, ect owners to date. I have had my poor horses attacked, maimed, and killed by aggressive dogs while riding and in the pasture. It is law in my state that you may shoot any dog that is harassing livestock (horses). I have never done this...but some times think I should have. 

While riding my gelding up the road one day I was charged by a very large and aggressive dog that kept trying to bite my horse and generally freaked him out causing him to spin and stomp in the middle of the road. My gelding finally kicked the dog and I managed to get my gelding under control. The owners of the dog then came outside cussing about my horse kicking their dog. Being an animal lover I forgave the dog for his stupid owners and took my horse home.

A few months later.....same dog managed to make it down to my neighbors yard and attacked a 4 yr old playing on her swing set in her yard. Then attacked a police officer that arrived at the scene. The dog was maced heavily and immediately taken to the AC. The dog and his owners went to court....not sure about damages paid or any of that stuff, but the dog was ordered pts. The child ended up fine...just scared to death of dogs now, pretty scratched up, ect. 


Moral of the story is that no one is doing an aggressive dog any good by ignoring it or just shooing it away. If it isn't you then some one else will get hurt. But, if you do shoot a dog...please shoot to kill or you are just making it suffer. Mace is a great idea. But only if you are close enough to use it and some times that is too little too late. There are always going to be ignorant and careless owners out there. It's not the dogs' fault...but some times they pay the price.


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## MysticL (Sep 5, 2011)

A fearful dog is often an aggressive dog because they often bite out of that fear. 

However, I own Yorkies not Great Danes. Is my dog a *physical* threat to anyone? No! Even if you made the horse stand still and gave them full permission to take a bite they just wouldnt be able to do any damage! BUT, should that funny spikey little dog run out on a trail in front of a horse it would spook a horse just as badly as any other creature would. The difference between a small animal such as a rabbit running out and my dog would be that the rabbit for example runs in silence, a dog barks and is perceived as a threat no matter the size. I reckon if my tiny weeny dog chased a horse on a beach that horse might run because it is their natural instinct to flee from a threat. 

I would however never put my dog in danger of a horse. One kick and they would be dead. I don't even take them to the stables with me because I do not want THEM to get hurt. But I am a responsible dog owner. 

when i was a child, you had to have a lisence to own a dog whihc was eventually done away with sadly. It should be like getting your driver's lisence, you should have to prove you are competent enough to own a dog and understand its physical and mental needs. Maybe the same should be done for horse owners and other animals.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

MysticL said:


> when i was a child, you had to have a lisence to own a dog whihc was eventually done away with sadly. It should be like getting your driver's lisence, you should have to prove you are competent enough to own a dog and understand its physical and mental needs. Maybe the same should be done for horse owners and other animals.


Disagree. More prior restraint is not what we need.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

pepperduck said:


> just make sure you have all the right permits to carry a weapon


In some states, like mine, licenses are not needed to openly carry a handgun. One is only needed to carry it concealed.


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

Speaking as an owner who has had her dog maced, I'd rather you shoot her with a BB or paint gun. 
Shadow was hangin in my yard when my 4 year old bro opened the gate. She usually ignores it and stays put but she loves meeting new dogs and the neighbor lets her dogs run loose around the house and sometimes to ours. The minute I saw shadow start to head out, I was a few steps behind her. Shadow was wagging her tail and play barking - hell, she stopped and did the play bow jump around and the neighbors dog responded. The owner got closer to shadow first and maced her. I was about to grab her when she did it and shadow went shooting home after. She almost got hit by a car, and my little brother got mace on his face and in his eyes when he tried to comfort Shadow. If she was being aggressive, I'd still be ****ed but okay. But our dogs were playing, and this was Shadows first time leaving the yard. Honestly, I can't even take my dogs for walks anymore. My neighbors all let their dogs run loose, and we almost got attacked 4x in one walk going down my street - I had to carry her back to the house. Anyways, I recommend a paint ball gun or bb gun because it could easily get to a child if you use mace. Paintball gun scares Dog and allows owner to learn
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilbit11011 (Apr 15, 2010)

MisssMarie said:


> Speaking as an owner who has had her dog maced, I'd rather you shoot her with a BB or paint gun.
> Shadow was hangin in my yard when my 4 year old bro opened the gate. She usually ignores it and stays put but she loves meeting new dogs and the neighbor lets her dogs run loose around the house and sometimes to ours. The minute I saw shadow start to head out, I was a few steps behind her. Shadow was wagging her tail and play barking - hell, she stopped and did the play bow jump around and the neighbors dog responded. The owner got closer to shadow first and maced her. I was about to grab her when she did it and shadow went shooting home after. She almost got hit by a car, and my little brother got mace on his face and in his eyes when he tried to comfort Shadow. If she was being aggressive, I'd still be ****ed but okay. But our dogs were playing, and this was Shadows first time leaving the yard. Honestly, I can't even take my dogs for walks anymore. My neighbors all let their dogs run loose, and we almost got attacked 4x in one walk going down my street - I had to carry her back to the house. Anyways, I recommend a paint ball gun or bb gun because it could easily get to a child if you use mace. Paintball gun scares Dog and allows owner to learn
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I can agree to a point. If it is some dog that keeps wandering onto your property and maybe barking at your animals then by all means bring out a paint ball gun. But, until you have had to stand beside a truly aggressive dog that means you or your animal true harm and maybe even death you can not say what you will do. And I do not mean a fear aggressive dog either. They will usually run from you if given the chance. A true aggressive dog will not back down. Personally I would not risk myself or my animals in a situation like that again.

There is always going to be crappy owners out there who screw it up for the rest of us responsible pet owners.....but that is life. I am sorry your pup and little brother got hurt because you had crappy neighbors. Believe me I know what that is like. My previous neighbors when I was a kid poisoned my family's two rotties with antifreeze and hamburger meat with glass in it because their breed were "devil dogs". BTW our dogs stayed in our yard when outside, were well trained, very gentle, and were not aggressive in any way. We just had the bad luck of having bad neighbors.


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

Oh no, they were good neighbors until my other brother - 12 - and their son got in a fight. We were also friends with the other neighbors who got me a leg up in the horse world and was like a step-mother to me - took me to auctions, taught me many horse skills, let me ride, and basically taught me most everything I know. Then he accused her son of stealing from of us on the other - drunk - neighbors words. Then banned me from seeing her. So, don't blame the neighbors for hating my dads but don't hurt my dog or my little brother. I think paint ball guns are good because you can still drive them away - they hurt like HELL (bro convinced me to be target one time....) and the owner will still be able to see what happened so they learn
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilbit11011 (Apr 15, 2010)

Yes they do hurt quite a bit. I gave up my paint ball days along time ago...lol. I like that they leave a nice calling card that their dog is unwanted some where in someone's property. (Think I said that right?)


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

Yep! A nice bright callin card for sure
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Is someone seriously gonna ride with this?










I don't think so.


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

There are nice small ones. My brother has one not much bigger than the normal BB guns and it was black
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

I have 2 king german shepherds, 1 male 1 female. My male is a DOLL I can bring him anywhere, around anyone, and he will only get aggressive if someone gets too close to me and I give him the *vibe* of being uncomfortable, or if I give him *the word* 

Now as for my female, they were both raised and trained exactly the same way, same breeder sold her to me, she is HIGHLY agressive, VERY territorial, confrontational, and will attack without notice. I do NOT bring her for long strolls in the woods, she gets walked on a short leash alone with me in my neighborhood (muzzled of course), and she is NEVER off leash... we have a 6 foot fence with a nice chunk of land that she can patrol to her hearts delight as well.

Anyone who has a dog that has NOT been trained around other people or animals should keep them on a gosh darned leash. If they are the slightest bit aggressive or are used as a guard dog, they should never be off leash, ONLY in your own back yard that is properly enclosed.

Mace is a wonderful idea, a paint ball gun would be awesome too, imagine the wonderful pallet of colors one can bestow on the dogs hide as its running away XD If a dog owner would ever get in my face he/she would eat paint/mace as well. I cannt stand ignorant people. If you don't know what your dog is capable of, or your too stupid to train your dog properly, you shouldnt have a pet. Go buy a goldfish.


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## furbabymum (Dec 28, 2011)

Scary but I can't say that I see the dog as terribly aggressive. Dogs like to chase and bark at other animals. Just what they do. 

It's perfectly ok to shoot dogs in my state. Cops won't even ask questions if you do.

As for what you should do. That's tough. I have crap aim so shooting it would be no good. I'd just carry a whip probably.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

mildot said:


> Is someone seriously gonna ride with this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lol:
Not likely. Don't care what size they're not going to fit well in my rifle/shootgun boot and what's the point of trying to dig out of a saddlebag (try that on a spooking horse sometime). :lol:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

There are much small paintball guns than the one above..I even think there is like a pistol paintball gun now...My other favorite for scaring animals away is a semi-automatic bb pistol..Yes, it's awesome.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> There are much small paintball guns than the one above..I even think there is like a pistol paintball gun now...My other favorite for scaring animals away is a semi-automatic bb pistol..Yes, it's awesome.


You miss the point that they are not something that fits into the riding gear except maybe a small one in a saddlebag. Having to dig it out of saddlebag is useless so why bother. My coach gun fits nicely in the gun/rifle boot and takes all of 1 second to to have out. And with a coach gun I don't have to dead on target. Even on a horse that's kicking and dancing around I can have few pellets hit the target. Good luck hitting a dog with a paint or BB gun from a horse that's moving around.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I am a firearms instructor for law enforcement and certainly not against shooting a seriously aggressive dog, if my or my horses safety is in real danger.

However I have, so far, found that becoming the aggressor when under attack usually changes the dogs attack. When I send a 1,000 plus pound horse onto the attack and chase the dogs, the dogs have a dramatic change of attitude. 

A scared horse also has a change of heart when they see a nasty dog running from THEM. It is interesting to see how their fear can change and the horse comes to enjoy the turn of fortune.

I LOVE the idea of the paintball gun, personally. I think it is a great idea of sending a nasty paint covered dog back to the reckless owner for him to have to clean!!


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> However I have, so far, found that becoming the aggressor when under attack usually changes the dogs attack. When I send a 1,000 plus pound horse onto the attack and chase the dogs, the dogs have a dramatic change of attitude.
> 
> A scared horse also has a change of heart when they see a nasty dog running from THEM. It is interesting to see how their fear can change and the horse comes to enjoy the turn of fortune.


I agree. I have done the same with the same results that you have seen. Dogs are suddenly not so brave when a two headed animal 20x their mass and terrifyingly taller is after them.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

You've been fortunate with only one dog to chase. Try that with two or more and they start out with one in front and one in back. Not all dogs are stupid and know how to engage large animals, since many have taken on hogs (which are extremely agressive in return). I'll stick with letting my horse kick while I take aim. Experience as shown me that the blast from my gun with the yelping dog makes them run away. The uninjured usually still come back, but more cautiously and will at times keep there distance. Generally the ones that have been shot bark from a distance the next time I've ridden by.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

My horse and I were a victim of a terrible attack by a pack of HUGE half german/chow dogs. I've told this story before. We couldn't scare the dogs away, or outrun them, my mare was getting torn to shreds but she refused to attack/buck/kick until I got off. One dog was latched onto her tail and hind quarters. When I got off I let her loose to run. Well she didn't and she turned on the dogs and killed two and injured the other. She came back to me bleeding from head to toe. Had too many stitches to count from the vet. We didn't press charges with the low life owners because they were neighbors and two of the dogs were already dead, the other was completely mauled but still alive when he ran off, I'm positive he didn't make it.

Now I don't take chances. If a dog is yappy my horses are trained for that. But if one ATTACKS there is hell to pay. I will shoot to kill. I don't even wait if one gets close enough to bite, I know the signs. I also don't recommend attacking some dogs because they will feed off that behavior, or even worse attack you. Now some will retreat if you turn on them, yell, or throw something at them (I've heard stories on here where people throw their boots at dogs!!) some people throw treats. But the second most horses become aware that they are being viciously attacked you can throw all training out the window and you must act to protect yourself and your horse.

I do not support mace or any kind of spray if you are riding. What if the wind is blowing and you mace your horse or yourself? Can you accurately aim that stuff while trying to control an excited horse? A gun is much easier to point if you are trained. That spray goes everywhere and a bullet isn't blown around. Just being in the vicinity of that stuff is enough to irritate you and your horses eyes and nose. Try controlling them then. BB Guns are a great idea if you make sure they are strong enough to sting and not damage.

Yes it is an owners fault not the dogs fault for being loose. But if I, my horse, or my family is in SERIOUS danger I will take the dog out. If my horse was being attacked or barked at by a HUGE dog that I couldn't scare away I would put it down. OP's horse got loose and could have been hit or injured a driver or a small child walking on the beach. So for liability reasons I would have shot it if it didn't listen to me and back off.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

its lbs not miles said:


> You miss the point that they are not something that fits into the riding gear except maybe a small one in a saddlebag. Having to dig it out of saddlebag is useless so why bother. My coach gun fits nicely in the gun/rifle boot and takes all of 1 second to to have out. And with a coach gun I don't have to dead on target. Even on a horse that's kicking and dancing around I can have few pellets hit the target. Good luck hitting a dog with a paint or BB gun from a horse that's moving around.


Oh no, I'm not one of the people saying don't shoot the dogs..I am a firm believer in shooting a dog if it comes at me "attacking" my horse and I..My family hunts, we have pistols, rifles, compoud bows. I'm just saying that there are smaller paint ball guns. In my state it's legal to carry an unconcealed firearm without a permit.. I could hit a dog with a BB gun or paintball gun with my horse moving around, and I know that none of my horses are likely to move when they have a dog coming near them..They are used to dogs running around them and barking, and they are used to gun fire..It depends on each person and their horse.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

FlyGap said:


> My horse and I were a victim of a terrible attack by a pack of HUGE half german/chow dogs. I've told this story before. We couldn't scare the dogs away, or outrun them, my mare was getting torn to shreds but she refused to attack/buck/kick until I got off. One dog was latched onto her tail and hind quarters. When I got off I let her loose to run. Well she didn't and she turned on the dogs and killed two and injured the other. She came back to me bleeding from head to toe. Had too many stitches to count from the vet. We didn't press charges with the low life owners because they were neighbors and two of the dogs were already dead, the other was completely mauled but still alive when he ran off, I'm positive he didn't make it.
> 
> Now I don't take chances. If a dog is yappy my horses are trained for that. But if one ATTACKS there is hell to pay. I will shoot to kill. I don't even wait if one gets close enough to bite, I know the signs. I also don't recommend attacking some dogs because they will feed off that behavior, or even worse attack you. Now some will retreat if you turn on them, yell, or throw something at them (I've heard stories on here where people throw their boots at dogs!!) some people throw treats. But the second most horses become aware that they are being viciously attacked you can throw all training out the window and you must act to protect yourself and your horse.
> 
> ...


There it is.

Right from someone who's been a real victim. All this talk about waving whips, paintball guns, throwing rocks, spraying OC, bla bla bla goes right out the window when the above happens to you.


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## Radly (Jan 17, 2012)

Summary: Maine Law This Maine statutory sections outlines the state's dangerous dog laws. It first provides that any person may lawfully kill a dog if necessary to protect that person, another person or a domesticated animal during the course of a sudden, unprovoked assault. A person who owns or keeps a dangerous dog commits a civil violation for which the court shall adjudge a fine of not less than $250 and not more than $1,000. The dog may be ordered to be muzzled, or euthanized if it has killed, maimed or inflicted serious bodily injury upon a person or has a history of a prior assault. Notably, if a dog whose owner refuses or neglects to comply with the order wounds any person by a sudden assault or wounds or kills any domestic animal, the owner shall pay the person injured treble damages and costs to be recovered by a civil action. The statute sets out the specific procedure for declaring a dog dangerous and the statutory definition of dangerous is also provided by reference to a companion statute.

I'm not going to stop riding. I'm going to use deadly force when needed and then call 911


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## lilbit11011 (Apr 15, 2010)

mildot said:


> There it is.
> 
> Right from someone who's been a real victim. All this talk about waving whips, paintball guns, throwing rocks, spraying OC, bla bla bla goes right out the window when the above happens to you.


 That is the point I was trying to make....unless you are in that situation with an aggressive dog(s) you don't know what you will do. Yes, non-lethal manners might be preferred....but, when push comes to shove I believe most people will protect themselves and their animals with lethal force. Once you have actually been through or witnessed an attack, whether on horse back or not (and not just some dog barking at you) you get a whole new perspective.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The dog in the OP is a GREAT DANE. If it's a small one it probably outwieghs most adults. I would NOT try to stop the dog with a whip or stick. If I didn't have my pistol (the real kind not the paint kind) then I'd let the **** thing have my horse. dogs are born aggressive. Some are more agressive than others but they are born that way and they have to be trained to respect people and other animals. My dog is naturally aggressive to livestock and could be in trouble if I'd let her but I take resposibility for her and keep her out of trouble.


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## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

kevinshorses said:


> The dog in the OP is a GREAT DANE. If it's a small one it probably outwieghs most adults. I would NOT try to stop the dog with a whip or stick. If I didn't have my pistol (the real kind not the paint kind) then I'd let the **** thing have my horse. dogs are born aggressive. Some are more agressive than others but they are born that way and they have to be trained to respect people and other animals. My dog is naturally aggressive to livestock and could be in trouble if I'd let her but I take resposibility for her and keep her out of trouble.


hmmm.. maybe throw a stick and hope it plays fetch (but doesn't return)... lol.


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## tanya (Mar 30, 2011)

I say "Shoot em Lizabeth" LOL sorry I watch to much Swamp People. Really though if it were me I would shoot.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

My boyfriend LOVES that show and I have to watch it all of the time..At first I didn't like it but now I'm a little stuck on it..


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## mystykat (Dec 4, 2011)

Hi, I'm from Alberta. I don't own a gun. You aren't allowed to own a gun without liscenses and are not allowed to shoot guns anywhere I might ride that there are dogs. It's illegal. Shooting the dog is not an option for me. There are other horses around, people, residential areas, etc even if I could carry a gun my horse might spook at the gunfire, or with my aim (even with practice) I may miss the dog and hit something/someone I really shouldn't.

I am with my horse and an aggressive dog has decided to prey upon me and my horse who would rather turn tail/and or leave me in the dirt than charge the dog. How do I deal with this aggressive dog?

Not a question easily answered if you can't just shoot the dog, is it?


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

Then have your horse rush the dog
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

MisssMarie said:


> Then have your horse rush the dog
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This

Train your horse to trust you enough to go after them on command.

Carry a dressage whip. They can be bought long enough that you can connect with any average sized dog if you just drop your arm down a little and swing.

Carry an OC (oleoresin capsacium) cannister, particularly the kind made for bears that shoots out in a stream instead of a spray.

Carry a knife.

If the dog problem can't be solved from the back of the horse, you'll have to dismount and fight the dogs yourself with the OC and knife.

Yeah, it sucks, but that's the hand you've been dealt so now you have to play it.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

i didn't read much of the other posts but saw someone posted a paintball gun... i carry one when i ride now after me and my nephew were attacked by a dog while riding on a public trail... i made a nice bag to hook to my saddle so its easy to get to... i have had to use it twice now and the owners are always p***ed off when they see me use it but hell i am not risking being chased nor attcked by a dog coming at me and my horse again... one time is more than enough for me.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A power assist water pistol works great. Dogs hate being squirted. My son keeps one on him when he walks in the city. There were a few aggressive dogs in his neighborhood that now head the other way when they realize it's him.The paintball gun is a good idea - definitely marks the dog for identification, that it was running loose.


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## mystykat (Dec 4, 2011)

mildot said:


> This
> 
> Train your horse to trust you enough to go after them on command.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you. 
My horse is actually fine with dogs, even dogs running up to him barking. He'll boot em, stomp em into the earth, take chunks out of their hides. 

But for some people shooting isn't an option (that's not to say I'm against it), and some people haven't built up the trust with their horse to guide it through it's fears. 
There was just way too much "KILL THE DOG" answers going on for an ultimate solution and for some people it just isn't the case. Not because they're against it - because heck yeah I'll stop that dog dead - but because laws, etc forbid it. 
For some "killing the dog" just isn't an answer regardless of it being the quickest, most effective solution that also ensures that aggressive dog will not be attacking any one else. 

In a good world everyone would be able to shoot the aggressive dog; in a perfect world we'd have responsible owners that trained their dogs and/or kept them on leashes in public.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

mystykat said:


> There was just way too much "KILL THE DOG" answers going on for an ultimate solution and for some people it just isn't the case.


That's just simply the result of the fact that both doing so and carrying a handgun is legal in most of the US, and the fact that many of the people on this thread are Americans.

I understand the constraints that you are under.

For the record, in all states local laws prohibiting the discharge of firearms inside towns and near homes are not applicable to instances of justifiable self defense.


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## mystykat (Dec 4, 2011)

mildot said:


> That's just simply the result of the fact that both doing so and carrying a handgun is legal in most of the US, and the fact that many of the people on this thread are Americans.
> 
> I understand the constraints that you are under.
> 
> For the record, in all states local laws prohibiting the discharge of firearms inside towns and near homes are not applicable to instances of justifiable self defense.


Exactly, which makes it the best option for those who live with those laws.

Me on the other hand - I hope I never encounter an aggressive dog without my horse. I'll be done for


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> A power assist water pistol works great. Dogs hate being squirted. My son keeps one on him when he walks in the city. There were a few aggressive dogs in his neighborhood that now head the other way when they realize it's him.The paintball gun is a good idea - definitely marks the dog for identification, that it was running loose.


My mastiff would go for the water pistol (hose or whatever is streaming water). She thinks streaming water is grand and has no fear of it all. Loves charge straight into it and attack the source. If I'm not there to tell her not to she will (and has) eat my sprinklers if I turn them on.


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

Having been bitten twice by dogs, and being a dog owner myself, i have ZERO seecond thoughts about turning any agressive dog inside out with my shotgun.
Shoot, shovel, shut up. 
And yes, one of the dogs that bit me was my own, and yes, she got lead poisoning on the spot.
That was after she showed aggression towards the girl i was dating at the time, though mild.
If my own dog showed aggression towards me, the keeper of the kibble/bearer of the boneys, she would show it to anyone. That is unacceptable. Period.


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## FirstLightFarm (Jan 20, 2012)

OK, as a lifelong dog trainer/handler/owner, this is something that's always puzzled me.

Horse people are completely comfortable with half-ton prey animals, possessed of lightning reflexes, who could squash them like an insect and go right back to eating grass a second later. 

But y'all are ready to haul out the automatic weapons over a dog?

Nope, I'll never understand it. 

But really, most of the time, just be proactive and pleasant and everything will be fine. 

I live in the land of the free-range canine, where no one has ever heard of a fence, much less built one. Here's what I do: 

*Clop-clop-clippity-clop* Oh, look, horse, do you see that dog there? He's quite handsome, isn't he?

BARKBARKBARKBARK 

Oh, you must be the watch dog! Look what a nice job you're doing!

99.5% of the time: *wagwagwag* *big goofy canine smile* Why, yes, I am and thank you for noticing! You and your big dog have a nice day now!

Yes, there is that 0.5% of the time that things turn out differently. In my case, in about a half-century, that's amounted to two dogs. In neither case was anyone, canine, equine, or human, injured. And no firearms or other weapons were necessary!


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

While a horse may bite, and definitely can kill, it is still a prey animal, and generally are defensive. Note i said GENERALLY. There are definitely some aggressive horses out there.
Canines, however, are a predator.
They have instinctive pack tendencies, and have been known to go after animals much larger than themselves from a hunting instinct.
Whether its a domestic dog, coyote, wolf, coydog, or otherwise, the basic instincts are genetic, and irrefutable.
Some folks are more fearful of dogs than others, and some are less.
Some tolerate more than others.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

I run into loose dogs all the time when out riding. I always tell them in a stern voice to "Go Home." I will get lounder and meaner the closer they get. I will slap my reins against my leg and charge them with my horse. It has always worked or at least it worked for 35+ years.

Twice in the last year I have been attacked by agressive dogs while out on my horse. The first was a pitbull who got a hold of my horse - it took us 45 minutes to get 40 feet to the safety of home - owner paid $1,000 fine to the Animal Control but the same dog went after a greener horse and rider two months later and the rider was hospitalized... The dog is still there, but the stable owner now watches for it with a loaded shotgun.

Just before Xmass, I was out with my gelding, ponying a two year old filly and a green horse/rider combo. We were attacked by two Rotties. They did not back down until I had trampled one with my horse, but they took a chunk out of my filly and the other rider got dumped. Someone saw the attack and called 911 - who happened to have a unit just a few blocks away. It seems those same dogs had attacked a child earlier that day. the cops were there to catch the dogs and save us.

For Xmass my husband bought me a BB gun that is light and quick to use. When I can afford it, I will switch to a 9mm. I am not goign to die because some dog won't stop when I yell at them.


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## shandasue (Nov 22, 2011)

im sure u alredy have plenty ideas but i just want to say when im on my horse (i know u were not) i turn around and chase the dog and every one has tucked its tail and ran! but i gess if your horse is scared that wouldnt work!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

FirstLightFarm said:


> But y'all are ready to haul out the automatic weapons over a dog?
> 
> Nope, I'll never understand it.


You don't have to understand it.

You don't have to like it.

You don't have to accept it.

But you will tolerate it because it is the law. And you will tolerate it because others haven't had your happy experiences.

Nuff said.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

FirstLightFarm said:


> OK, as a lifelong dog trainer/handler/owner, this is something that's always puzzled me.
> 
> Horse people are completely comfortable with half-ton prey animals, possessed of lightning reflexes, who could squash them like an insect and go right back to eating grass a second later.
> 
> ...


I've owned dogs all my life (even before I can remember we have pictures of me with a Border Collie) and horses for 80% of my life. My horses and my dogs have always gotten along great. My Malamute, back in the late 70's would run and jump into the saddle with me and ride. The horses were fine with that.
It's not the barking dog that's a problem. Even my current filly will do nothing more than look their direction while on a lead behind us. It's the dogs that feel they have to drive off my horse. They'll come out and get in front and back. They know the routine for engaging larger and potentially a more dangerous animal. I really don't feel that any horse in a domestic environment should have to put up with that. If the owner of the dog feels that his dogs have the right to run unchecked to harrass and attack my horse, then thankfully the law feels that I have the right to defend my horse. And while I often do not have a firearm I can almost always find something that will inflict significant pain. Metal clasp on the end of a lead does wonders if nothing else is available. If the lovely little guard dog wants to stay in it's yard, or 20 yards away and bark then that's fine. My horse won't care. Of course if my mastiff is with me she might (and has) take issue with an agressively barking dog, as she can be very devensive. She'll stay with us unless she needs to defend and on a couple of occassions the friendly little guard dog has elected to engage her to prove the it can drive us off. Fortunately in both cases the other dog didn't fight long and ran home. My girl isn't going to chase them beyond a few yards. But since can't always count of being that lucky every time and a 150 lbs (she's a smallish mastiff) of agressive canine can do a lot of damage before I could pull her off I don't take her with me on rides where I think there might me loose dogs (so she doesn't go on many rides away from the farm). She won't bother a horse, she quite likes them, or dogs that stay in their yard and just bark, but heaven help an attacking dog. She'll mostly ignore them until the come out to the road and make a move towards us.
So I have to be responsible by leaving my dog home, because of people who can't control their sweet little guard dog.
Maybe the water out there creates sweet little dogs that only bark at a distance, but I've dealt with to many of them biting my horse's legs so I don't have a polite attitude about dogs coming after my horses.


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

it does merit mention that i am more than willing to defend myself, regardless of species.
Whether it be a dog, cat, horse, or human, or other creature, anything that threatens my well being has fair opportunity to mind it's own business, and be on it's merry way.
I neither look for nor encourage confrontation or hostilities in any fashion intentionally.
That being said, i am willing to use whatever level of force necessary to preserve and protect my well being and that of those in my care.
I make zero excuses, i make zero apologies, and have zero regret after the fact.
I love every one of God's creatures.
He gave me gifts and blessings that few possess. 
one of those gifts is excellent marksmanship.
The way i see it, if something is threatening me in a fashion where i fear for my life, it has signed its own death warrant, and has been brought to me to have the action fulfilled.


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## FirstLightFarm (Jan 20, 2012)

mildot said:


> You don't have to understand it.
> 
> You don't have to like it.
> 
> ...


Don't know where the fruitbat this response came from. I'm insinuating that you're overreacting and skeered of dogs but I'm not saying you're breaking the law. 

Tolerate it? Dude, you got me confused with somebody who cares. Do whatever you want. I'm all for every single freakin' amendment to the Constitution. I just believe, like Sheriff Andy Taylor, that most of the time a gun is unnecessary. But you and Barney and anybody else who feels safer with one, y'all go right on ahead. Just lemme know where y'all are so I can stay out of range.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

FirstLightFarm said:


> Just lemme know where y'all are so I can stay out of range.


You'll know from the sound of gunfire.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

I am not even going to repond to the converation of shooting dogs that are chasing horses, but will comment on the original post.

Years ago, a friend and I were trail riding/riding in a public park. No dogs were allowed in that park, but surprise surprise there was one (with an owner), and off-leash at that. The dog started chasing my friend's horse and she decided to immediately dismount.-- People say to never dismount while being chased by a dog, but the only logical sense from that is so you and your horse can stay together. Some people will say also to stay on the horse so the dog does not attack you too, but the chances of that are slim, if you are farmiliar with dogs and aggressive dogs, that is not really a concern for the majority of cases.

Back to my point, the friend got off and her horse was freaking out. I decided to get off too to help her (I was shocked when I saw her get off!) and our horses ended up getting away and bolted back to the barn (other side of the large park). I don't remember what happened to the dog, but we called the barn manager as we ran after our horses through the park, and she caught our horses at the front gate for us. Thankfully, nobody was hurt, especially when the horses ran across the street.

Moral of the story, don't be stupid and get off your horse. Horses can typically out-run dogs, and it was a dumb move in the first place for her to hop off... in my eyes solely because she lost that much more control of her horse.

Not getting into the severe protection ideas others are talking about, but if you want a little more added protection when out of the trail, beach, etc., bring a long dressage whip with you.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

I've come across a number of aggressive dogs on the trail, and after reading all this, I feel lucky that our mares are very quick in the hind end, have no problem kicking an aggressive dog that is in their space, and are amazingly accurate. This is one situation that I've never 'corrected' a horse for kicking, and I've been fortunate to be able to ride it out and let our mares handle it without either of us being injured.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

LostDragonflyWings said:


> I am not even going to repond to the converation of shooting dogs that are chasing horses, but will comment on the original post.
> 
> Not getting into the severe protection ideas others are talking about,


Why do you even mention it then?


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

mildot said:


> Why do you even mention it then?


I, purposely, did not state my opinion one way or another regrding that; if you had noticed. I simply stated that I was NOT going to get into that part of the conversation (which has taken up several pages of this thread already).

Again, not stating one way or another, nowhere did I state if it offended me or not. My sole purpose of avoiding adding in on that part of the conversation was so that I did not enter into an online dispute, as that would not accomplish anything.


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## karebear444 (Feb 3, 2012)

I would check the laws in your state. In mine you can buy pepper spray, but it's illegal to use it. We also have concealed carry now, but I dont carry a gun so don't know what the rules are. If something is attacking you or your horse you should have the right to protect yourself, but dog owners should be keeping their animals on a leash and under control at all times because you have just as much right to be there. I sympathize with you because I have my horse out in the country and nobody bothers to properly secure their dogs. The ones in the area I ride in run loose the majority of the time. It just so happens I have two pitbulls, a St. Bernard and a Lab mix where I ride and none of them are friendly. I have been barked and growled at and chased, but I just try to keep my distance to avoid conflicts. My mare doesn't freak out too bad unless they full force start charging but I think it's ridiculous how I could get hurt when their dogs are trespassing on the land I ride on. It's a tough situation.


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## FirstLightFarm (Jan 20, 2012)

*OMG! Encounter with aggressive dog this morning!*

So I'm sitting with my head pressed to the glass in my kitchen window, because I'm on the phone with my neighbor, and I live so far out in the country that it's the only position in which I can get a cell signal.

This morning, this inconvenience turned out to be a good thing, because it meant that I noticed right away when a large.black.German Shepherd. ran into my pasture and began chasing my thirty-year-old horse.:shock:

So I fling the cell phone one direction and take off out the door as fast as I can go in the other. At the time, I'm wearing my fuzzy plaid hoodie robe, grey sweats, and my hot pink fleece cowboy boot bedroom shoes. The ones with rhinestones on them.

As you might imagine, the GSD takes one look at the outfit and hotfoots it for home. Apparently even the colorblind find this ensemble frightening.

I walk and ride all over the place around here, so I know this particular hellhound is named Bear and belongs to one of my neighbors. One of the few neighbors who actually fences their dogs. But six weeks ago, Bear became a father. I suspected Mrs. Bear and the new brood may have crowded him out. 

So I changed into a less alarming outfit and went to the neighbors. Bear was chained in front of the door when I got there. But he wagged his tail and let me pass him to knock on the door. Whereupon I reported his behavior to his owners. They promised to keep Bear at home, and I spent a nice half hour playing with Bear, the Second Generation. Because not only are they cute, but in a few months, the four of them will no doubt be accompanying me and Conjure on our rides.

That's how we deal with aggressive dogs in my part of the world. Not very dramatic, I know. But effective!


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

karebear444 said:


> In mine you can buy pepper spray, but it's illegal to use it


LOL where do you live?


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## MysticL (Sep 5, 2011)

Well yesterday 5 of us went out on an afternoon hack through the farmlands. On the way home you are forced to walk a short distance along the road but it's never a problem because the cars are all locals who own horses themselves and slow right down. 

So we are walking down the tarmac part of the road, downhill, loose reins all chatting. I was up ahead. My horse is 5 weeks off the track and likes to lead and really strides out ahead. I had already walked past the fence where a nice big Rotweiller was lying hidden in the bushes. Luckily he was behind the electric fence or he would have bitten one of us. well, he lunged and attacked us through the fence, sending 2 horses jumping into the road. mine shot forward luckily because the dog was behind us. Thank god there were no cars coming. 

My BO said next time she is going to bring a paintball gun so when the dog goes up home they can SEE what we think because these people have been asked to put their dog on the other side of the house and refuse.


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## BarrelRacingLvr (Feb 26, 2012)

Go buy a soft pellet gun....best thing invented! It is small caliber so not like the BB Rifles (even though that would work too). We have a few around the place for stray dogs that cross the highway and come onto the property, a few shots and they are running back where they belong. I have also used them in the pasture on the horses at feeding times for the horse that wants to run up and down the fence keep everybody from eating.....a few times and they figure it out lol. 

So I would have it ready, have a good hold of your horse and lay about 5 rounds on the dog (try avoiding eyes of course). A few times of that and when he sees you he will know not to try and screw with you anymore.


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## karebear444 (Feb 3, 2012)

mildot said:


> LOL where do you live?


That would be WI. Bunch of bologna huh?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

BarrelRacingLvr said:


> Go buy a soft pellet gun....best thing invented! It is small caliber so not like the BB Rifles (even though that would work too). We have a few around the place for stray dogs that cross the highway and come onto the property, a few shots and they are running back where they belong. I have also used them in the pasture on the horses at feeding times for the horse that wants to run up and down the fence keep everybody from eating.....a few times and they figure it out lol.
> 
> So I would have it ready, have a good hold of your horse and lay about 5 rounds on the dog (try avoiding eyes of course). A few times of that and when he sees you he will know not to try and screw with you anymore.


You seriously shoot it at your own horses?:shock:

And 5 rounds at ONE dog? All you need to do is hit their hind end one time! Seems a bit much to me, JMHO.


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## BoldComic (Feb 26, 2012)

cakemom said:


> Carry mace, I can't stand people who let their dogs run or poorly trained dogs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have done this. Not on my horse but when running. Works wonders. My dad is a delivery driver and also uses mace for aggressive dogs. And don't hesitate to use it.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Mace is tricky, it can blow back on you in the wind.

My nephew once was camping in bear territory (where just the night before, in a nearby campground , a man had been killed in his tent by a grizzly). he and his girlfriend heard something moving around outside, near the tent. Thinking it might be the grizzly, the took the bottle of mace and tried to spray it throught the mesh netting of the mosguito netted "window". Well, the spray backfired from the mesh and got all over them. Miserable experience.
I know , this has little bearing on the discussion. Just for yuks and giggles (well, of course, they weren't yukking it up).


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## BoldComic (Feb 26, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> Mace is tricky, it can blow back on you in the wind.
> 
> My nephew once was camping in bear territory (where just the night before, in a nearby campground , a man had been killed in his tent by a grizzly). he and his girlfriend heard something moving around outside, near the tent. Thinking it might be the grizzly, the took the bottle of mace and tried to spray it throught the mesh netting of the mosguito netted "window". Well, the spray backfired from the mesh and got all over them. Miserable experience.
> I know , this has little bearing on the discussion. Just for yuks and giggles (well, of course, they weren't yukking it up).



Good point. Make sure you get the sticky foam kind. Not the aerosol kind. Riding blind wouldn't be a lot of fun :shock:


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## BarrelRacingLvr (Feb 26, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> You seriously shoot it at your own horses?:shock:
> 
> And 5 rounds at ONE dog? All you need to do is hit their hind end one time! Seems a bit much to me, JMHO.



Yes I do....if they are being over aggressive toward the others, biting, lunging, running them into fences you bet they are gonna get a plastic BB bounced of their bottom. 

As for dogs....when there mind is on other things and the adrenaline is up 1 shot is not going to get the job done a lot of times. Just because I say 5 rounds doesn't mean it is necessary. But if you want to get the message across to the dog that is trying to bite your horse....I don't care if it isn't my dog I care about my horse more then the strangers dog that is after us.


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## Tokoneki (Mar 28, 2011)

Dogs will chase if given the opportunity. They work on an "intimidation" level. If your horse is comfortable enough, something my trainer taught me, and something that has worked everytime for me is I get my horse squared up, and slowly walk in the DIRECTION OF the dog...confronting it, sort of speak, HEAD ON. They (the dogs) always end up walking backwards, still barking, but at least they aren't attempting to bite at my horse's heels.

Always try and FACE the dog with your horse. DO NOT GET OFF. And slowly WALK towards the dog. Be confident. Make your horse confident. It always works.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> And 5 rounds at ONE dog? All you need to do is hit their hind end one time! Seems a bit much to me, JMHO.


Whether the weapon is lethal or less than lethal, the trigger keeps getting pulled until the threat is over.

If that means I gotta dump all 17 rounds out of the Glock into something or somebody, so be it.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

mildot said:


> Whether the weapon is lethal or less than lethal, the trigger keeps getting pulled until the threat is over.
> 
> If that means I gotta dump all 17 rounds out of the Glock into something or somebody, so be it.


I understand that. I would think that if you are a good shot, it would take one or two, if you are not, it might take many. Not something you can say.....take (this many). It takes what it takes.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> I understand that. I would think that if you are a good shot, it would take one or two, if you are not, it might take many. Not something you can say.....take (this many). It takes what it takes.


Or, He needs a larger caliber.

I usually carry a .44 mag.


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

If I'm riding off on a trail, I'm very rarely alone. That being said, someone usually has a gun on them. If I am by myself, I take our 9mm. I've had to pepper dogs before, but I wouldn't hesitate to kill one if it were to get after my horse.


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## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> I understand that. I would think that if you are a good shot, it would take one or two, if you are not, it might take many. Not something you can say.....take (this many). It takes what it takes.


with the way adrenalin works, with an aggressive dog, even if I'm sure that I got 2-3 good shots.. i'd shoot til it didn't move anymore. Worst thing in the world.. an aggressive and wounded animal.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

A squirt gun filled with house hold ammonia works pretty good too.

A shot to the eyes and nose and a dog will never chase a horse again, and will usually run an hide when they see one.


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## Nine (May 25, 2008)

My trouble is, that my Teddy wants to kill any dog he sees, and we usually have an argument over him NOT doing that. The other horse I ride, Kumar, and I have had a real tussle over not allowing him to kill a dog. He didn't care what I was saying with my seat, legs or reins. He wanted to eat the dog!
But there has been a lot of good avice on this post. I will look for a nice paint-gun pistol, or a BB pistol. But first, I have to look up the carry laws for my state (MN). Thanks to you all, for sharing stories and advice.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Nine said:


> My trouble is, that my Teddy wants to kill any dog he sees, and we usually have an argument over him NOT doing that. The other horse I ride, Kumar, and I have had a real tussle over not allowing him to kill a dog. He didn't care what I was saying with my seat, legs or reins. He wanted to eat the dog!
> But there has been a lot of good avice on this post. I will look for a nice paint-gun pistol, or a BB pistol. But first, I have to look up the carry laws for my state (MN). Thanks to you all, for sharing stories and advice.


In that case, it sounds like you got the aggressive dog defense covered well.

As far as handgun laws in MN, this place is great to start your research as it summarizes every state and provides links to the actual statutes: Handgunlaw.us


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

MN is a shall issue law, one word of caution, a BB pistol is legally a gun when you carry it on your person, so would come under the same restrictions as an actual firearm.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

I haven't encountered aggressive dogs but I have rode with one that was running in and out and Biscuit was charging her which was making me nervous as all get out. It is just that dog that Biscuit wants to charge. She belongs to a friend so shooting her is not an option - she is just being a dog - not aggressive. 

Dogs can be freaking scary if they are on the attack or defending their territory. We came upon 2 barking labs out in the woods where we ride one day and I rode at a trot towards them using my dad's voice when he yelled at the hunting dogs "you better get on up there" LOL I had to laugh at myself....dogs left so I must have channeled my dad pretty well.

I don't carry a gun or any weapon really but if I did ride where I knew there were aggressive dogs I would carry a dressage whip or bull whip and get good with it. I love dogs - all dogs - but if it is between me and Biscuit and a dog that is being an idiot - oh well, if Biscuit makes dog mush so be it. Hopefully that will NEVER happen.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

I agree with Gunslinger. A squirt gun with household ammonia will do the job. No permit needed to carry it. No law broken for squirting it in city limits. Other than the howl of the dog squirted, Nobody will know you even used it. Unlike the discharge of a firearm where some concerned mother may complained that you endangered her kids by discharging a firearm.

A can of Wasp spray will do pretty much the same thing if you have room to carry it.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Painted Horse said:


> No law broken for squirting it in city limits........ some concerned mother may complained that you endangered her kids by discharging a firearm.


Ordinances against the discharge of firearms within city limits do not apply to self defense.

What some "concerned" mother thinks is not really high on my list of priorities. :?


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Dogs bark at people, they bark at horses, they might even come close to them and its not great but I don't think its a reason to shoot them. I don't know how many dogs I have had run up to me and then proceed to lick me. I would go to lengthy means to protect myself and my horse from a vicious dog, but I think many of them aren't. And the way so many people talk on this thread it sounds like they are willing to shoot a dog willy-nilly, just because it happens to be there, or to teach an owner a lesson or because there is some vague possibility that its a threat. And I think that is terrible.

Yes, they shouldn't be off the lead, or they should be better trained, or both. And perhaps the owners should be more responsible. But it is so terrible to kill a dog just because its there, especially when you don't know the circumstances. Perhaps it escaped its yard, or slipped its leash, or is just having a terrible day. Maybe it's eight year old owner accidentally let it go. People love their dogs. They love them so much, they are their companions, and to many people are closer than family. To just shoot one when it wasn't necessary is an awful thing to do. To deliberately cause a person so much pain and suffering when maybe, yes, they made a mistake. 

I know so many more people who are scared of horses, and if your horse was loose and, chasing a dog maybe, and someone shot it, how would you feel? I know if a horse cantered up to some friends of mine, loose, they would be terrified, probably much more scared than a dog because many people are terrified of horses. And if everyone had the attitude that people in this thread have, they'd shoot the horse. When maybe the fence came down in a storm, or someone fell off. Has it got to do with training and control? Not all the time. 

Yes, protect yourself and your horse, but please consider before you make such a callous decision. On a side not, I wouldn't be taking a horse out to a public area if he'd throw a rider and bolt because of a dog. To me that is not a well trained horse, and could do traffic damage, or injure people. Until a dog made physical contact with the horses I have ridden out, they probably would have been fine.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Saskia said:


> Dogs bark at people, they bark at horses, they might even come close to them and its not great but I don't think its a reason to shoot them...........blah blah blah blah


You honestly did not grasp what has been said here. At all....


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Saskia Squirt gun or real gun, I don't think folks are just willy nilly shooting any dogs. They are discussing the really mean one. Which to be honest are just soooooo rare.

I encounter a lot of dogs while out riding. Usually with their owners out for hike. Most of the owners are very attenative to their pets and get them on lesh and secure them. But even the loose dogs, my horses are used to . We often have 3-4 dogs running along our horses, under their feet zig zagging along the trail with us. My horses just don't care about dogs unless they try to nip them.

Most strange dogs bark and retreat. No harm no foul. The rare dog that comes in and tries to nip my horses heals, usually gets kicked. No need for me to do anything but hold on.

But for those timid riders who are nervous about a strange dog upsetting their horses and getting them dumped. The ammonia in the squirt gun will send the dog fleeing and usually not do any long term harm.


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## Radly (Jan 17, 2012)

I was out riding on the beach again yesterday with a friend. We were cantering along the waters edge when a lab mix began chase, the owners were about 200 yards away. Tess turned her mare to confront the dog and chase it back to were the owners were. I had stopped and was watching from a distance. My friend and her mare got the dog back to the owners, but they did nothing to restrain or control there animal. I could see the mare was starting to freak out with the dog barking and lunging torts the horse.
At this point I got involved, I charged my horse "Quinn" at the dog and told the owned comely to control his animal and put it on a leash. My horse is very chill and dose not spook even with an aggressive dog. I was having no problem controlling Quinn and keeping the dog in front of him
" Like we were doing some cutting" My friend hand moved down the beach to get her horse to a safer place. 
I'm still telling this guy to put his dog on a leash and he's acting like I'm doing something wrong. By now many people are watching so I felt like it was a good time to get away. I charged the dog one last time and went into a full galloup. I looked back to see the dog is chasing me but it was not to close. So I stopped turned and was ready to stomp the dog if it kept coming. Happily it decided to turn and go to its owners.
Later that day I did see it on a leash.
These dogs are a problem


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

I think you missed a teacheable moment.

When people started to gather that's when I would have put on my war face and yelled at the top of my lungs "don't ever let that dog near my horse again or I will kill him right in front of you".


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Radly, if these dogs are at the beach unleashed,and it sounds like they are regularly, report them to ACO. All dogs are to be leashed on Public property in Maine unless they are under the owners control. These dogs obviously are not.


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## Cintillate (Jan 8, 2012)

Had that happen to me twice on different horses. The dog was trying to bite my horse. She was freaking out but she wouldn't run away from me...instead hide behind me. I knew the dog so I got off and scared it away. The other one my horses wasn't afraid at all and retaliated by chasing the dog and successfully got the tail. Dog wans't hurt but decided not to bother us again. Depends on the situation. At least you got your exercise walking all the way back to get them. :/ ?


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## Hickory67 (Feb 18, 2012)

That's the problem with a lot of folks who insist on keeping their dogs off leash - most of them can't really control the dog. I'm a Doberman person and always keep mine on leash, no matter what - but what we most often see is an uncontrolled dog attacking our "bully breed," who then is labeled aggressive for defending himself. Infuriating.

Saw a couple of references to bleach/ammonia - it can indeed cause permanent damage if it gets in their eyes, especially if not diluted well. Some folks use dilutions of vinegar or lemon juice.


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## Conrad And Freddie (Mar 7, 2012)

My horse was mauled by two hunting dogs last year :/ It took him awhile to get over the attack and even know he gets iffy if he hears a dog bark etc. Our area has had 7 reported dog attacks on horses in the past 2 years. There has been a lot of attention with he new papers and now our local council is starting to really crack down on unleashed dogs. But it is still frustrating when you see a dog off the leash and the owner doesn't see anything wrong with it :/


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## FirstLightFarm (Jan 20, 2012)

Conrad And Freddie said:


> My horse was mauled by two hunting dogs last year :/


I'm sorry your horse was hurt. 

What kind of hunting dogs y'all have over there? People hunt with hounds here - in my area, they use them to run deer out of the swamps so the hunters can shoot them. But the hounds are skittish shy creatures who'd never hurt a horse or human. 

What kind of hunting do they do in your country with dogs? What kind of dogs do they use?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

One thing that really irks me is poorly behaved dogs, and what irks me even more is the douche bag who should be at the end of the leash.
I don't carry a gun riding so I couldn't shoot it, but I would probably give the dog owner the same treatment with my horse that his dog did to my horse.
I probably wouldn't, but I would think about it. 
But if you can't control your dog and it puts my horse at risk, I'm probably going to lose it. 
If you're dog comes onto my property and is chasing my horses, I'm going to shoot it. You get one warning, that's it. 

TRAINING isn't very hard. The hardest part is training the stupid person, not the dog.


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## Conrad And Freddie (Mar 7, 2012)

Hunting dogs over here are used to hunt massive wild pigs and deer, so they are usually a mix of dog breeds that are big, tough, aggressive and agile. The dogs that mauled my horse were both bull arab cross, like most dog here. Bull arabs are usually crossed with mastiffs, danes, wolfhounds and even greyhounds to make hunting dogs, the end result isn't good for any animal that comes across them :/


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## Babington (May 26, 2012)

The idea of BB gun is really nice but the story doesn't end here. I mean, whats 
about the frightened horse. He has become allergic from the dogs. 
I experienced such situation a couple of years ago and my prince was scared by Dogs. Even beagles. 
It took a lot of time to make him relax.


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