# Thin soles causing brusing, is there anything I can do?



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Is he in muddy ground? That can soften a horse's soles and make them more tenderfooted. since you have only owned him 4 months, think about what has changed in his circumstances from his former life.


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Is he in muddy ground? That can soften a horse's soles and make them more tenderfooted. since you have only owned him 4 months, think about what has changed in his circumstances from his former life.


Thank you for the reply. Right now it's kind of muddy/mainly snowy. Could snow do that? 

I bought him from a summer camp I worked at for years. So I've known him for quite a while. The only thing I see that had changed is that there's a little more gravel when I keep him. The rounds are pretty rough, and he limps on them. However, he's only on them maybe twice a week, for 1-minute intravals walking to the arena
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

mselizabeth said:


> Thank you for the reply. Right now it's kind of muddy/mainly snowy. Could snow do that?


Yes indeed. Any wetness that a horse stands in will soften the sole, and soft soles are more easily bruised. In very wet times, us old folks brush iodine (betadine) on their soles/frogs everyday. Iodine helps dry/harden the sole as well as protecting against thrush. You can buy betadine is a large bottle and it's cheap.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi,

Yes, protect his feet on hard/rough ground. Conventional metal rims don't protect horse's feet anyway - except from 'protecting' the wall from wearing. I'd opt for hoof boots if possible.

As people have mentioned, environment is important & I'd strive to provide him at least a dry hangout area if his paddock's generally wet. Diet is also vital to healthy feet & low starch is a big factor, as is well balanced nutrition.

If you could post hoof pics & as much info about management etc, we could give you some more specific opinions on what changes you may want to consider. Check out the link in my signature for info on pics.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Nothing beats a proper trim. Thin soles can cause problems, but flares cause many more. Maybe purchase a used pair of hoof boots to give him some relief during the wetter days so his feet stay dry. Venice turpentine, Durasole, and Farrier's Fix hoof oil all seem to help with sole soreness.


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

Thank you all for your advice!! I only have one picture of his hoof (and it's not the one that's bruised. But it does show what his hooves look like after it being muddy.) Would you guys like to see it?

He has a trim scheduled for Sunday. So I will ask the farrier for advice. If I remember correctly, it was his hind that is bruised.

Could you guys explain boots a bit more to me? Like how they work and where to purchase them. 

I will defiantly try the iodine!

Anything to make him feel better and avoid shoes


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

loosie said:


> As people have mentioned, environment is important & I'd strive to provide him at least a dry hangout area if his paddock's generally wet. Diet is also vital to healthy feet & low starch is a big factor, as is well balanced nutrition.
> 
> If you could post hoof pics & as much info about management etc, we could give you some more specific opinions on what changes you may want to consider. Check out the link in my signature for info on pics.


I will post pictures when I get out there (Sunday) as I only have one right now. And it's not the bruised one. 

He lives outside with a run in shelter (which they love to poop/**** in)
He has access to free choice on a round bale. And gets 2lbs of strategy a day. He has access to a mineral and salt block, as well as heated waterer. He lives with one other horse in roughly a half acre. I only ride him when it's nice out.. and that's been a few weeks.

Hope that's enough info


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

mselizabeth said:


> Anything to make him feel better and avoid shoes


Owning one thin soled horse myself who has been barefoot for 8+ years, these are my tips (some mentioned before)...

- Keep a good trim on the horse. Talk to your farrier before he starts. Many farriers love to go nuts with the hoof knife, but a thin soled horse needs all the sole it can get. Unless there is a medical reason (e.g. thrush), I would not remove _any _sole during a trim. If you are considering boots, have your farrier measure while he is out. Boots are great, but can be hard to fit depending on the shape of the hoof.
- As mentioned, wetness is your enemy. Not only does it soften the sole, but on very soft/muddy ground, your horse's sole will come down on all those rocks that are buried in the top few inches of the ground. If possible, find a dry area for your horse and use one of the sole hardeners (Iodine/venice turpentine). You would be amazed that a horse with a bad bruise will be perfectly sound when it's dry, and terribly lame after being in the mud for a day....it makes that much difference.
- A good, well balanced diet (of course).
- Hoof boots will protect the sole and help keep it drier. They also keep mud from packing up under the sole adding to the pressure, especially if you have a lot of terrible red clay like we do. Many boots can be used for both rehab and riding and you can read all about them at EasyCare Inc. | The Leader in Hoof Boots and Natural Hoof Care (a popular brand). For a horse recovering from a sole bruise in pasture situations (non-riding) when it's very wet, I'll wrap the hoof with a diaper and duct tape (similar to treating an abscess) to keep it dry and provide some padding. It's cheap and you don't have to worry about losing expensive boots in the pasture or potential chaffing, but you do have to re-do it every couple days when the horse wears through the duct tape (typically at the heel).

...and finally, be patient, don't give up, and give your horse time to recover. It can easily take 1-2 months to recover from bad sole bruises, but with hardened soles and good care, many thin soled horses can do very well without shoes or even boots (we rarely put boots on our thin soled mare, even on rocky ground).


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

We ride in solid rocks in the Arbuckle Mountains in Southern Oklahoma. Out ranch, however, is located 5 miles north of the Arbuckle and is all clay. Our horses also drink from ponds, so their feet are oftentimes softer than they would be if they did not get into the ponds. But, it is what it is. 

If I had my choice, my horses would live on the same rocky canyons we ride in -- but they don't. So, we have to keep most of them shod. I have a few really tough footed horses that can go out barefoot for a while and then I use Easyboots on them until they grow out a little more.

Like PaintHorseMares said, do not let a farrier take out any sole. We instruct ours to only use a wire brush on our horses' soles and only cut out any over-grown frog that it ready to shed. Actually, they do not even need a knife when they do our horses, either to trim or shoe.

We have horses that are going over 100 miles a week in the summer -- almost all of it on sharp limestone rocks. Most of them not only need shoes, but wear a set of shoes out in 6 to 8 weeks. We can seldom reset most of them in the spring, summer or fall. 

I disagree that a shoe only covers up the wall. Shoes also cover the white line and the sole where it joins the white line. These are the most sensitive parts of the hoof. I have seen many, many horses that could only tippy-toe over a gravel driveway when barefoot and could go out and ride all day in the rocks with simple shoes. A few very thin soled horses may require a shoe with a slightly wider web, but I have not had any that needed pads. They only serve to trap moisture and should be avoided at all costs.

Many (if not most) horses that live on dirt, will not ride on rocks without boots or shoes. If you do leave your horse barefoot, be sure your farrier not only leaves all the sole, but he should also leave the walls a little longer (not trim to the level of the sole like he would if he were putting on a shoe) and 'roll' the wall from the bottom. That is a lot different than rounding them up from the top. The rolled bottom keeps them from chipping and pealing up and helps the horse 'break over' like they should.


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

When my macho`s feet got tender (navicular)
I was told not to use durasole, it does work but kind of cauterizes the bottom of the foot.
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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Biscuit has a tendency to have tender soles on his front feet but our other gelding has hard feet/soles. 

I barefoot trim both horses and Biscuit came to me with lopped off feet that looked like the pits and he was very tender footed. He has had thrush and nasty looking raggedy frogs and old abscesses that were growing out. I have used Easy Boot Gloves when we went on rocky ground for quiet a while to protect them from chipping while I was growing them out. 

I am working on bringing his heels down a little more which will help his hooves cup up in a convex shape so that his hooves flex when he comes down on each foot. If I can achieve this he won't be so tender footed. I did take a course on barefoot trimming and so did my barn buddies and we work on this on a weekly basis. All of our horses are barefoot and we have worked on thrush, laminitis, etc. 

Educate yourself on it - it is fascinating and I have enjoyed learning more about hooves. I still will put Biscuit's hoof boots on if we are going on a rocky ride. They have been a ride saver on more than one ride!!


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Easyboot Epic | The Industry Leading Hoof Boot | EasyCare Inc.

This site has many different boots to choose from. While you cannot leave them on 24/7, they are great for 8 hours or so at a time to give your horse a chance to move around and toughen up the feet without experiencing any pain. These are full price, but I'm sure you can find used ones for much less once you know what size and style you like. 

I forgot to add in my last post, when your trimmer does come, do not let him trim into live sole. If you a see him/her use a knife on anything but the bars, thank him/her for his/her time and find someone who does not trim live sole. Trimming live sole is the easiest way to make a lame horse. 

Good luck!


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Easyboot Epic | The Industry Leading Hoof Boot | EasyCare Inc.
> 
> This site has many different boots to choose from. While you cannot leave them on 24/7, they are great for 8 hours or so at a time to give your horse a chance to move around and toughen up the feet without experiencing any pain. These are full price, but I'm sure you can find used ones for much less once you know what size and style you like.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much. I will update tomorrow after he comes. Hopefully he will take the time to listen what I have to say, if not I will defiantly find someone else. 

Is the thing they use to "file" down the hooves okay? On the sole. Sorry, I'm unsure of the proper terminology.
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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Yes, the file or rasp is the tool of choice. With a horse with sore feet, the best thing is to do as little as possible. He'll probably just balance the foot with the rasp and do a mustang roll all the way around so that the hoof wall is not bearing all of the weight. I do highly recommend the venice turpentine or Farrier's Fix hoof oil for helping with the ouchies. It definitely helped my horse. 

good luck tomorrow!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Cherie said:


> I disagree that a shoe only covers up the wall. Shoes also cover the white line and the sole where it joins the white line. These are the most sensitive parts of the hoof. I have seen many, many horses that could only tippy-toe over a gravel driveway when barefoot and could go out and ride all day in the rocks with simple shoes.


I don't understand why you think that the 'white line' & rim of the sole is any more sensitive than the rest? But what about the rest of the sole & frog, if thin & sensitive? They certainly don't protect that, assuming we're talking regular shoes without pads(I'd advise pads if shoeing thin soles). Yes, shoes can very obviously make a horse more comfortable, but as this is obviously not to do with protection(assuming broken ground, not smooth hard surfaces where the sole & frog are 'protected' by being raised further from the ground), I think reduction in feeling is the likeliest reason.

I don't like the use of chemicals on their feet as hardeners generally, as it can damage tissue & proprioceptors, and it's also thickness that needs to be *grown* more than hardness that's required. Horses that are hard soled/frogged but thin are just as at risk of bruising IME. 

I think 'flat' feet develop concavity only when the lamellar connections are strong & healthy & feet are supported/protected as necessary in order to be used more & therefore put out more growth & become strong & healthy. IME I also agree with Pete Ramey's idea of leaving *a little* more height to heels if frogs/DCs are too weak, as the extra can allow a horse to land comfortably on his heels(& therefore start developing them) whereas cutting them down to 'textbook' height, while it may ultimately be 'right' for that horse, can just cause more sensitivity & cause him to land toe first even more. Also when talking of concavity, it does depend on the horse, type & also environment as to how much concavity may be desireable. Eg. drafts often have shallower P3s & horses working on roads tend to have more 'filled in' soles to provide the necessary support under the foot.


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

So the things I have written down to talk to him about:
Not taking out any sole/live sole (is there a difference?)
Leaving a little extra on the rims for support
Rolling down instead of up
Betadine or another hardener for wet days
Possible use of boots 

Anything else you guys would recommend? 
I appreciate the help, thank you!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Yes, the file or rasp is the tool of choice. With a horse with sore feet, the best thing is to do as little as possible. He'll probably just balance the foot with the rasp and do a mustang roll all the way around so that the hoof wall is not bearing all of the weight. I do highly recommend the venice turpentine or Farrier's Fix hoof oil for helping with the ouchies. It definitely helped my horse.
> 
> good luck tomorrow!


Thank you so much. You've been a huge help!


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

*UPDATE:*

The farrier came out today. We had a discussion about his hooves and what to do. He was very understanding and assured me he would not take any sole off. We took X-rays of his hooves to find his sole was less than an inch thick. 

So inevitably, we decided to put shoes on for our next visit. Not exactly what I wanted/can afford.. however I need to do what's necessary. We will start out with only front shoes and see how it goes. Hopefully front shoes will be enough.


Thank you all for your advice.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Sounds like you made a good decision. Internet is good for opinions, but common sense trumps everything.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

mselizabeth said:


> We took X-rays of his hooves to find his sole was less than an inch thick.


:? I'm guessing you're talking about the distance from ground surface to the edge of P3, not sole thickness? Because IME if it's even approaching 1" the sole is very thick. If there were no sole markers, to tell you where the actual sole plane is in relation to P3 & the ground surface, it can be difficult to judge.



> So inevitably, we decided to put shoes on for our next visit.


Not inevitable in any way, IMO, but of course you've got to make your own informed decisions. I would definitely pad the feet of a thin soled horse if he was shod, to provide the necessary protection.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Any chance you can post pics of the xrays? I'm trying to educate myself about barefoot horses and would love to see what a thin sole looks like on the inside.


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Any chance you can post pics of the xrays? I'm trying to educate myself about barefoot horses and would love to see what a thin sole looks like on the inside.


They were digital (on a monitor) so I do not have them. Sorry


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

it's been very muddy and wet where my horse is and he got an abcess from the water softening his feet! he has shoes also! something i do is put venentine turpentine on the sole of the foot (not on the frog it will dry it out and it's just bad) it helps when it's wet! it will aslo harden his soles!


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