# Buckskin thought to be Brownskin



## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

I posted pictures of my guy awhile back when I first got him asking what color he was. I got a lot of responses saying he was probably brownskin, not buckskin. His dam was a bay (I saw her in person) and the sire was perlino. His color has changed quite a bit with his winter coat, sometimes he looks like he is turning white and sometimes he looks really dark! I'll post pics again, but I just did an offspring color generator and it came up with 87.89% buckskin, 6.25% palomino and 5.86% smoky black. Now he is definitely NOT smokey black. And not palomino. So can someone explain how he could be brownskin? Is this calculator forgetting something? I put in unknown allele dominance so it included all possible crosses. The pictures are in order of his first foal winter coat, yearling summer coat and now yearling winter coat. He did have some countershading this summer with his coat. I did not have money to send a genetic testing sample in yet!


----------



## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

The color calculator does not distinguish bay agouti and brown agouti. The horse looks to be brown agouti and cream (brownskin) instead of bay agouti and cream (buckskin). Sometimes brown horses can look very bay. The sire could also of had brown agouti but since he is double cream it's impossible to tell without testing. Test the horse for agouti at PetDNA, the own the patent on brown agouti testing and can differentiate between the two agouti forms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

Right, I totally forgot about that. Thanks Peppy! Once I get the money I'll definitely get him tested. I know it's only $40, but I just can't fork out the money for something silly like that right now!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The sire being perlino could easy hide whether he had a bay base or a brown base, that is where he got it from I'm sure. Also, are you positive mom's a bay? Not to call you out, but I see a lot, a huge lot, of people who don't really understand the difference. If you are positive look again at dad, do you know the grandparents?

He is a handsome fellow!


----------



## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

I work with around 80 horses daily... most are bay. (In fact the colt standing next to him in the second picture is a dark bay. My colts mother was lighter bay) A few are brown, only one is truly black and we have had a few greys and occasionally chestnuts. Yes I know the difference and she was definitely a text book bay. I do know who the sire was, so I know who his grandparents are luckily. My colts sire was Color Prescription (perl), his sire was Ima Sporty Lynx (perl) and dam was Kings Justa Beauty color unknown. Ima Sporty Lynx's sire was Sports A Glory (pal) and Sienna Lynx (br). Kings Justa Beauty's sire was buckskin, dam unknown.


----------



## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

What color would you call this horse bay or brown?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

If you're positive I would definitely look at dad. He must be a brown based perlino.


----------



## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

Peppy, I was taught that horse is a bay. Brown body with dark points and no lightness around the flanks or muzzle. I was taught brown horses are normally very dark and usually are called black mistakenly, but there is a difference.


----------



## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

That horse I posted a pic of is homozygous brown (AtAt). Even though phenotypically many would call that horse bay. Can't always go by phenotype 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

To add to the brown vs bay debate: My TB looks textbook bay in the summer, spring, and fall, no lighter points at all. Heck even his coggins since about ever say he is bay, but he is most definitely brown! He gets the lighter points in winter and turns pretty dark in the winter, but people who haven't seen his winter coat swear up and down he's bay.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> That horse I posted a pic of is homozygous brown (AtAt). Even though phenotypically many would call that horse bay. Can't always go by phenotype
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She's a great example of needing to see pictures in various coats. 

Here is a picture of her in her winter fuzzies that shows her brownnes. 
Bob Langrish Equestrian Photographer: Galleries


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Heh or my "seal brown" who you would swear up and down is black half the year. His coat IS BLACK, he just has a little brown here and there in key spots.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Thanks NDAppy. Even though I feel I know what it is I was a little thrown off by the first pic too. Winter is usually the easiest to tell imo.


----------



## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Those browns are tricky!!! That winter pic makes her very normal brown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

I myself have two BAB, one being a brownskin too! Both of his parents are genetically tested, his sire homozygous black and his dam being a perlino. So he definitely got the brown allele from his mother, even though she's never been tested for brown. 

My other horse, or pony rather, is a fooling brown. He looks bay in the summer, but is most definitely brown s revealed by his winter coat. 

I'll have to share pictures later, though I've got pictures of them all over the forum. I myself am partial to brownskins. It's like a new horse every season. I never know what color he's going to end up. :wink:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

imgur: the simple image sharer

Here is my horse (I _think_ after I clipped him, which is why his coat looks funny). As you can see he is BLACK, except for the tiniest bit of brown (he doesn't fade at all either ). Actually the brown is more noticeable in those photos than it usually is, I think it's becoming a little more noticeable as he ages too. Now he has a 3+in coat, his black is blacker, and his brown is browner  During the summer he's the "black" horse, and I always describe him to non horse people (or even horse people depending on the context) as black.

Sort of the opposite of the brown/bay with the dark ones... it's black/brown. I have heard the term "black bay" used too (which is obviously inaccurate. Browns tend to be darker, but definitely not always. They usually have more color changes too.


----------



## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

Oh wow!! Well, it would be funny to see how many of our "bay" horses are actually brown! I had a feeling you would say she was brown too lol. And you can tell a lot easier with the winter coat for sure!


----------

