# Breaking Mare's Habit Of Kicking/Rearing When Being Trimmed



## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

countryryder said:


> My one mare is an absolute cow when it comes to having her feet trimmed.I've had her just a few months,and it took numerous tries with different farriers,before she got a complete trim job,and even then it's a very 'basic' trim job.
> When I got her,I was told that 'Yup,she's good for the farrier,never a problem,except for one hind she tries to pull away sometimes." Her feet were very over grown,so I was suspicious,but she let me pick up and hold/handle all four with no problem,and all the horses on the property were needing a trim,so didn't think too much more of it..
> Well,turns out she's an absolute terror when it comes to being trimmed;biting,kicking,rearing,pulling feet away,dancing around,you name it she tries it! Needless to say,after the first episode,which only resulted in one front being partially done before the farrier quit,it was back to square one on Feet Handling and Manners 101. After using different approaches,having her checked over for pain issues,consulting with others who watched her behavior,ect.,I would say it's more of a defiance issue than a fear or pain issue.She behaves fine until she decides she doesn't want to do this anymore,then it's fight on! If you watch her,she'll be completely chill,then it's like she suddenly decides,I don't want my foot being held anymore, and then the tantrum starts.Sometimes it's within seconds,other times she'll wait until the foot's almost done.I've been working with her,but I'm not making much progress in regards to the rearing when her fronts are being done,and kicking when the backs are being handled.She'll be good one day,and back to square one the next.
> Any ideas on how to break these habits? I've never had to deal with the rearing issue in this kind of situation before,so not sure what else to try..


I remember having to sedate a mare during her episodes. Anyways. Be careful when you work with her since you've seen her dark side. I went and bought a rasp and just took a small rubber hammer out with me. I tied her up, where she could pull away if needed and didn't hurt herself. I picked her feet up to begin with, just holding them. I pulled them forwards, backwards, tucked them between my legs and played patty-cake with them every time. After that, I took the small rubber hammer and while holding her feet acted like I was shoing her, increasing in pressure on the edges on her hoof where the nails would be. Even if it's not shoeing, it lets them get used to the extre handling. It takes time. I also went around tne did a tiny amount of running the rasp over her toes, not enough to make a difference, but enough to jerk her foot around a bit. Now if she kicks, bites, or rears...If she kicks at you, you can pop her under the belly to make sure she knows it's not okay. Rearing, i've found a special little tie down. It goes over their poll, and it's a bungee like material so it pulls her head back down and will tire her neck out. As for biting, pop her on the nose or the chest. All three of those are no no's.


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## countryryder (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks for the pointers,Aesthetic.

Any other ideas/experiences with this,folks?


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

Have the farriers tried twitching her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Has she ever been hobble trained?

Not that my horse is hobble trained, but I've been thinking and reading on it, and it sounds like the same training might help your horse learn that she must give her legs to pressure rather than deciding to have a fit. And even if it didn't fix the issue entirely, I can't imagine it not helping somewhat. And then, she's hobble trained, so that might come in handy when she's getting trimmed all by itself.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Ooo! My mares favorite move-- squish me or she liked to bend down so low i had to leg go of her hoof or shed crush me under her shoulder.. she would also paw at your head, knock over your stuff, paw things, paw the ground, snatch her foot away, try to run away on 3 legs, bite my butt, bite my leg, bite my boot, lol. She was awful.. 

Till i picked up her feet every day and scolded her when she did wrong-- shed go ta actin a fool and id poke her in the butt with the nippers and that changed her whole demeanor once she realized i could hold her front hoof and poke her butt, lol. .. now if she even flinches i just say 'quit' and she acts like a lady, lol.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

If you have to get her trimmed immediately for her own good (ie. to avoid lameness or damage to the hoof wall), I'd go ahead and sedate her or even put her on the ground.

I've had to do this to a couple because they were so new to being handled, and a couple others who were terribly spoiled, and the condition of their hooves needed immediate attention. It really didn't interfere with my teaching manners related to the handling of their feet and legs.

Beyond that, it is back breaking work, but constant handling of the feet increasing the time they have to tolerate having their foot held is the best way. 

I have noticed, however, that on otherwise "trained" horses who highly object to having their feet trimmed or shod, there are usually signs of disrespect toward their handlers in other areas, too.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I was always taught to hold on. Never let go until the horse relaxes enough to leave the foot with you and not pull or anything. If a helmet/vest/pads need worn, wear them. That's how I deal with it..It seems I always get the horses that like to kick and pull.
If the horse wants to sit down or drop their front shoulder to the ground, let them. Hold on (out of the way) and let them go down. They'll learn, hasn't failed yet for me and a few others.

In this case..I wouldn't to that route. Only hold it long enough until JUST before she explodes and put it down. Leave her alone or love on her as a reward. Keep doing that and she should learn that you do plan on putting it down, you just decide when, not her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Ask the vet for a little drug cocktail..... just Ace is not as good. Used as a training tool, there is research to show it works. Most of the time, one non-traumatic experience is all it takes. YMMV

Good Luck!


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

If she's really exploding this isn't going to work. You'll have to be the judge.
My grey sometimes likes to stretch her front legs out as far as she can when I do her feet. I hold onto the foot and don't let her put it down. When she gives to me and relaxes the leg, I release her foot and let her put it down.
You can also untie her as soon as she starts to pull back (gotta luv slip knots) and take her off to the side to lunge her in circles. When she starts behaving and listening, you take her back to the rail and start again. 
Basically you are making the right behavior easy and the bad behavior hard.
But honestly, I would check the pain thing again. The only horse I've had rear when having their feet done, had a shoulder problem. Also, my buckskin started pulling away when I was doing her hinds about the same time she started having problems with her stifles. She'll take so much, but need breaks during a trim. 
You got watch your farriers and trimmers too. Some will really crank that leg out to the side and pull it up high. Which can be painful to a horse especially if they got any joint issues.


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## Running Whisper (Nov 30, 2012)

I've had the same problem with one of my mares. She just didnt know any better. What we had to do was when my trimmer would come out was I would hold her while he work start to trim. Anytime she pulled back or attempted to drop her hoof he would send her around in a circle till she would focus again. We would keep doing this until she realized if she didnt behave she had to work. Also we had do do this for picking out her hooves too. It took us two months to get her to fully get it. Hope it helps, and be aware of her body in case she does react:shock:.Good luck!


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Sounds like you need to make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard. So pick up a foot and if she pulls away work her hard (circles, backing etc) until she realizes its easier to be still. This may take some coordination or the help of a friend. It sounds like she's not scared, she's a brat.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

flytobecat said:


> But honestly, I would check the pain thing again. The only horse I've had rear when having their feet done, had a shoulder problem. Also, my buckskin started pulling away when I was doing her hinds about the same time she started having problems with her stifles. She'll take so much, but need breaks during a trim.
> You got watch your farriers and trimmers too. Some will really crank that leg out to the side and pull it up high. Which can be painful to a horse especially if they got any joint issues.


We have a gelding who is uncomfortable with the trimming process. We give him bute a couple of hours before the farrier arrives and it has made a world of difference. Can't fault them for fighting pain...


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

One time I had a new farrier.. new to horses and new to trimming horse's feet. My horse was good.. but this guy as slooooowwwwww and my horse had limited patience. 

What we did was to get a length of rope.. a LARGE length of rope and wrap it around his head.. thru his mouth.. and keep on wrapping until it was a large enough wad in his mouth he could not completely close his mouth. This did not hurt him (it was snug but not tight) and it surely kept him focused. It also was not so invasive that he could not respond to having his feet handled. It worked as well (better) than tranqing him. Because it was not a nose twitch (and I have no issue with a twitch) we did not have to take breaks. 

As to the foot snatching.. you need to have the horse is a place where you can get them backed into a corner so there is no yanking away and then handle the feet as mentioned above.. and put the foot down before the horse starts the yanking routine. Every time they snatch a foot away from you they get a reward (they got their foot back). If you try to hang on you may be in for a pitched battle that you will likely lose. The object is to put the foot down before you are in that battle. 

Gradually increase the time you hold the foot and the stuff you do with the foot. Use food that the horse loves.. and keep it coming as she figures out the foot handling thing is just something else we need the horse to do.


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## countryryder (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks for the advice,y'all.  There's a couple ideas here I haven't tried yet,so I'll do that..


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

Try, try, try, and try some more, BUT, depending on what caused her to act like this, it may not be curable. If that's the case just sedate and go on. It is not worth getting hurt over. I've had a few over the years like this. We just sedate and go on.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Country, if you ride this horse, take it for a good hard ride before the farrier is to come. Get her puffing and genuinely pooped. She'll be a little more content to stand for the farrier. But, in case she isn't, keep your lunge line on her and the moment she gives the farrier any trouble lunge her, not in circles but more like half circles and make her reverse. Do this four or five times then ask her to stand. Do it as many times as you have to until she figures out she can work or behave. It sometimes takes 3 times for a horse to figure this out. You'll want to do this outside where there's plenty of room to lunge her. When lunging make her trot briskly but not canter. You're calling the shots now, not her. Let the farrier know in advance so he'll know to get out of the way. When you first send her out look at her like you plan on murdering her and be quite aggressive.


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## Sereno (Apr 21, 2013)

I read the op and not much after that. So sorry if I'm repeating or don't grasp the whole problem.

Chican, 7 year old gelding when we bought him. Owner/trainer/farrier sold him to us. Chican had no shoes. Needed at least trimming. Chican HATED the above person. Carrots and molasses kept Chican occupied enough to at least trim the front but NO way the rear and NO way was a shoe getting put on.

NEW stable and new farrier and had the vet too. TOO many people and even with sedatives NO ONE... all 6 of us could do his hooves. You must understand when to say..... ENOUGH... STOP.

Our new farrier would work with Chican every week or so. He built up trust and the front became no problem ... with a few carrots and a plate of molasses. He even could trim his back hooves.

OLD farrier was called to do him. I don't remember why. BACK TO SQUARE ONE. NEVER GET NEAR MY HORSES AGAIN!

5 Years later trimming all and shoes on front with no problem. Wife and I still are in front of him with carrots and molasses.

Good luck. Some things take... a little time.


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## countryryder (Jan 27, 2012)

bbsmfg3 said:


> Try, try, try, and try some more, BUT, depending on what caused her to act like this, it may not be curable. If that's the case just sedate and go on. It is not worth getting hurt over. I've had a few over the years like this. We just sedate and go on.



I don't know much of her past,so it's pretty much a guessing game as to what causes her to act up in this manner.
When I got her,she was barely semi halterbroke,and aggressive towards people,as in you had to have a whip in hand any time you entered her pen or got near her.We've had some major battles,but she is now very friendly,relatively easy to handle,and rarely shows disrespect (gets in big trouble when she tries).I do know she has been exposed to very little in her five years and her previous (and only other) owner/handler had done very little with her,and I would say,from what I have observed,that she was allowed to get away with alot of garbage,when she was handled..


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## cenproweb (Sep 15, 2012)

Because of my bad back I only trim two hooves a day. I have a herd to take care of. And when I trim I take a few bites with the nippers then put the foot down. My horses will stand without restraint no halter, nothing out in the field. One time I got a pinched nerve in my back loading tons of hay so I had someone else trim one of my horses. I couldn't believe how bad the horse behaved and I couldn't believe how bad the trimmer behaved. When I went back to trimming the horse she snapped up her foot for me. After a while she was back to normal mellow mode. So I suggest not holding the foot up more than 10 seconds at a time until the horse accepts that and gradually increase the time of holding the hoof always putting it down before the horse acts up. Most farriers hold the feet up a long time and if a horse isn't used to it there is a fight which just makes the horse worse.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

"When I got her,she was barely semi halterbroke,and aggressive towards people"

Horses are by nature, flight animals. Her aggression towards people, had to be taught. I'd guess someone, while trying to trim her, got too rough with her and started the ball rolling. Now it gets worse every time someone tries. Unfortunately, every time she acts out and is not corrected within 3 seconds it gets worse. And you can not react fast enough, with a farrier under her to do any good. Working her, will not work, she will not relate working, to acting out, when some one is handling her feet.

I'd suggest sedation all of the time to begin with, then start reducing the amount of sedation a little bit at a time. Let her find out slowly, that she will not be hurt by the farrier. Probably best to do this without the farrier even present. DO the reductions in sedative, in between the farrier visits. Do a, known safe, dose when the farrier is present.

A horse that has had a bad experience will continue to react to it, even if they are "dog" tired. You have to out think them, when this has happened. Usually, more, and more exposure to the experience, without harsh reprimands, will eventually cure the problem. The trick is to never let them act up, while your in the remedial process. Once they act up, you set the process back, way back. When you are reducing the sedation doses, you might try having someone monitor her heart rate with a stethascope, while someone else picks up and handles her feet. At the first sign of increased heart rate, put the foot down. You may be able to increase the handling time a little bit at a time, until it is longer a problem.

Making the right thing easy and the wrong action difficult, only works when they can relate the work to the incident.


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## countryryder (Jan 27, 2012)

bbsmfg3 said:


> "When I got her,she was barely semi halterbroke,and aggressive towards people"
> 
> Horses are by nature, flight animals. Her aggression towards people, had to be taught. I'd guess someone, while trying to trim her, got too rough with her and started the ball rolling. Now it gets worse every time someone tries. Unfortunately, every time she acts out and is not corrected within 3 seconds it gets worse. And you can not react fast enough, with a farrier under her to do any good. Working her, will not work, she will not relate working, to acting out, when some one is handling her feet.
> 
> ...


I am beginning to wonder also if this behavior is possibly linked to a bad experience she's had,so lately when I've been working with her feet,it's pick up/handle and as soon as I sense she's even thinking of becoming bothered,I put it down,give praise,and move on. Some days I can have them up for a few minutes,other days only a few seconds,but she has allowed me to do a little rasping on all four.It is going to take a while,but I'm hoping over time that she will realize that this is not such a bad thing.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

No one knows how it went with this mare in the past but when one picks up a hoof, especially a hind, in the horse's mind it's unable to escape the hidden predator. This is why so many horses are reactionary. Putting a rope around her ankle and starting in small increments barely lift the heel and working to picking it up forward, then a little sideways. The horse will likely kick as it objects and let it. It will get tired and quit. That's when you let the rope go slack for a few minutes and start again.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

My mare is also a pain in the *** to trim. Luckily, my farrier doesn't give up easily. This past weekend, she put a new trick into her bag of tricks though and learned that she can put all pressure on the one hoof when it is on the stand and raise her other hoof in a partial rear. I am going to try lunging her before her next trimming session and then making her circle everytime she moves when being trimmed. In addition, I am going to work on picking up her feet everyday and seeing if I can't make her easier to handle. I feel bad cause she broke my farrier wrist last visit. Although, my farrier says that it is an occupational hazard.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

"I am going to try lunging her before her next trimming session and then making her circle everytime she moves when being trimmed"

Good exercise, but that's all it will be. The horse will have no way of associating the work with the behavior.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

bbsmfg3 said:


> "I am going to try lunging her before her next trimming session and then making her circle everytime she moves when being trimmed"
> 
> Good exercise, but that's all it will be. The horse will have no way of associating the work with the behavior.


Not looking for her to associate the work with the behavior, but more looking for her to pay attention to cues and commands. Not only that, but I have discovered that if she is tired, she is more tolerant. Don't know how it is going to work, but I am going give it a couple of shots. She needs to be refreshed on ground manners anyway.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Elana said:


> *One time I had a new farrier.. new to horses and new to trimming horse's feet. My horse was good.. but this guy as slooooowwwwww and my horse had limited patience. *
> 
> *What we did was to get a length of rope.. a LARGE length of rope and wrap it around his head.. thru his mouth.. and keep on wrapping until it was a large enough wad in his mouth he could not completely close his mouth.* This did not hurt him (it was snug but not tight) and it surely kept him focused. It also was not so invasive that he could not respond to having his feet handled. It worked as well (better) than tranqing him. Because it was not a nose twitch (and I have no issue with a twitch) we did not have to take breaks.
> 
> ...


When I first started to read this, I thought you were referring to the farrier, :rofl:!


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

You could try clicker training. It works great for issues like this! 

Another method is to put her in the roundpen and work her til she is tired. Let her come in, pet her up and down, pick up each foot, and combine with treats. Unless she had some severe trauma with a farrier beating her, she should calm down very quickly.

The worst horses to trim are the ones who have been rough handled. 

Mostly this is a training issue. Original owner doesn't spend any time handling the horse, farrier comes out and horse won't behave. Farrier or Owner reacts by beating horse because the horse should "know better"... From then on hoof work will always be a fight.

I had some idiot at the university do the same thing to the weanling I was training. She would let me do anything to her hooves. First time the farrier goes to do her feet, he puts her in a new barn out of sight of the other horses. She starts rearing because she is scared, he smacks her... And the idiots at the university wonder why 90% of their horses fight you when you go to do their feet. :x I could handle her hooves and trim them and she was fine... But if the men did it they had a huge fight on their hands. She started trying to bite them as well, but never even pinned her ears at me.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I did not read the other posts, so I apologize.

Whenever I read posts about defiant horses the first thing that goes through my head is "Oh HECK no, that would NOT fly with me."

Of course that's easier said than done, however, I would get some serious manners knocked into this mare, like you said. And I wouldn't baby her either. if she's not in pain or afraid, she has zero excuse to be behaving as she is. She knows what is being asked of her. I would go back and revisit your groundwork. I always refer to Clinton Anderson for the basics because it's easy to access and he does a good job explaining it. See if that fixes it. Often defiance is a symptom of disrespect (obviously) which came from holes in previous training.

Then see if you can get someone to hold one front foot like they're going to trim it. She moves? Have them drop it and YOU get in there and make her MOVE. Go crazy. Chase her hip in circles, lunge her, change directions every have or quarter circle, chase her hip again, chase her backwards, chase the hip, chase her sideways, chase that hip again. Then pretend it never happened. Take her right back to the person, your "farrier", and pet her. Have them pet her. Have them pick up her foot again.

Bottom line, she wants to move? Game on, make her move. I bet she won't want to do that anymore once she realized you might kill her. I may sound harsh but that behavior is dangerous and there is legitimately no way you can hurt this horse doing this.


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