# Double D-Rings. How to cinch?



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

So getting my horses into shape after the winter off means I'm into my "fat" tack. Or using my grandfather's saddle, until Star gets into some semblance of shape. 

He uses a King Endurance saddle, and cinches it like you would a normal saddle. But I doubt that is right, since its double D rigged. 

So how do I do it up properly?

Its this saddle, though an older leather model. I love the saddle and it fits her great in her fat periods, but yeah I need to get it on her properly. 

King Trekker Saddle with Horn - Statelinetack.com


Another issue, is that its my 6'2 grandfather's saddle, and my 5'6 legs can not reach the stirrups, but they appear to be frozen. How can I unfreeze them so I can adjust the saddle? 

I'm tempted to go bareback, since I just spent the last hour arguing with said saddle.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Good question, subbing to see an answer!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Cant really see the picture, does it have two D rings under the fender? or do you mean the ring for the cinch and the back girth? If its the two under the fender, so two for the main cinch, I would say they are just two rigging position options, most probably 7/8ths and 3/4.


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I think what you're getting at is the saddle should be cinched in "endurance mode" where front ring and back ring connect to one cinch and form a 'y' shape??? Doing it this way, the cinch is moved away from the elbow area and gives more freedom of movement while maintaining security.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm guessing this applies:










See here for more info:

Your Complete Guide to Saddle Rigging


----------



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Yes, its set up like Bsms, showed. But it also has a back cinch. So do I rig it with the back cinch in Y like an endurance saddle? Or is it just to change the position of the rigging?


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Where is the off-side D set at?

If it's in the middle, then it should be center-fire rigged (the Y you're referring to). If it's at the front, like the near-side Ds, it should be rigged like a normal 7/8 or 3/4.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Its got double D's on both sides. That's where I'm getting confused.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

So the other side looks like what bsms posted, with the Ds right next to each other?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

AHA found it! Its the Enduro balance one in this diagram. and it looks the same on both sides.


----------



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

I also found a pic of my saddle on ebay that shows the rigging


----------



## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

The two illustrations are so different, can you post a pic of what you have?

The King Tekker looks like similar rigging to my trail saddle, with a single D at the girth area, and another higher up at the rear of the seat. 

I start mine in the front D drop it through the cinch's ring, 
straight up through the front D again
back down to the cinch,
tighten and use the cinch prong in tie strap hole,
then angle it up to the rear D, pull it tight, and tie it off,
keeps the knot out of the way  
the tail hangs down from the rear.
Important - also use the same length tie strap for the off side, and keep them even. Do not use a regular off billet. 

I like being able to adjust both sides, and tightening it at the rear sort of pulls the whole saddle down straight (level) rather than more at the front.

I have seen one that started and ended in the back, but not sure how it was threaded and haven't tried it.

The diagram bsms posted of the 3-way rigging is excellent.


----------



## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Just looked at the instructions posted while I was typing, seems I am tying off too soon. 
However will probably keep doing it same as I have been. It is the way I learned on my Sharon Saare and I like tying it off more than relying on the prong twice.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I thought if the rear D hung straight down, it was for a rear cinch, and if it was angled down, then it was for the V-shaped latigo placement. The way the one hangs down straight, I'd think you'd get an uneven stress on the leather by pulling it toward the center.


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

bsms said:


> I thought if the rear D hung straight down, it was for a rear cinch, and if it was angled down, then it was for the V-shaped latigo placement. The way the one hangs down straight, I'd think you'd get an uneven stress on the leather by pulling it toward the center.


yeah, it would make sense with the possibility of a full double rigging position on the front also.


----------



## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

You mean there are two rings on both the on side and the off side? The way that you rig your saddle should be identical on both sides (the full, 7/8, 3/4 BSMS showed). So if you're doing a 7/8 rigging on the on side you need a 7/8 rigging on the off (you can't do an off side 7/8 with an off side billet you need a latigo)
You know how an english saddle has three billets on both sides yet only two buckles? Its similar outcome to this the first two are full rigging, the first and last are 7/8 and the last two are 3/4


----------



## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

bsms said:


> I thought if the rear D hung straight down, it was for a rear cinch, and if it was angled down, then it was for the V-shaped latigo placement. The way the one hangs down straight, I'd think you'd get an uneven stress on the leather by pulling it toward the center.


Yes, I spoke with Sharon Saare herself several times and once mentioned the rear knot would sometimes loosen a bit after riding a while. She said they had fixed that with later models - and I saw that later models had the rear most ring angled.




AnrewPL said:


> yeah, it would make sense with the possibility of a full double rigging position on the front also.


I agree again, the Y angle should not be from the rear or middle position of the front, only from full position. And that is specified in the illustration posted here although not explained.

The shape of the rear ring on my trail saddle (not the Sharon Saare) is not a true D but more of a large circle with a straight top. So I'm thinking the pull on the tie strap would be the same from anywhere on the arced part ?

My main concern on the way I tie is there is only one thickness of tie strap going to the back. If I had extra-extra long tie straps, like the ones on the Sharon Saare, I probably would come back through the cinch again.

I'm not meaning to tell anybody what is right or best, rather learn from the conversation here. 

Since a separate rear cinch is NOT tightened down it seems it does not come into play unless the saddle is under strain such as roping or bucking or unbalance. Whereas tying in the Y from the front actually pulls the saddle down level, I like that.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've always figured my rump ties the aft end of the saddle down, so to speak. On the occasions it does not, then my horse gets her back aired out a little.

If I roped, then the weight of the steer pulling on the front end would be a consideration. But I don't, so I guess my rump and Mr Gravity will continue to do the job.

This older thread has some good info: http://www.horseforum.com/trail-riding/endurance-saddle-center-fire-rigging-112754/


----------



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

So I can rig it like this? Or I can rig it to the D that is a little more back and is right under the fender?


----------



## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

bsms,

Thanks, liked the previous post and the links. Also looked up a pic of my trail saddle, and Abetta. Seems the rear rings are more D shaped than I thought, but very large. 

Very hesitant to post this pic as I am too heavy even without 4 layers of heavy winter clothing, and Elwood is quite upside down. But in the interest of the discussion I will post it. Note I am using a very wide cinch.











PS to Rain Shadow: 

You might try starting on the back ring of the 3-way front fixture, then you could still tie off on the front one, keeping the knot more forward, away from your leg.


----------



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Aandankev: Your weight is find and you have a beautiful horse. I love Appy's. But in your picture, even your front D-ring looks further back then then even the back one on my King. Though that just be because Star has such a long back, everything looks funky on her. 

So if I'm understanding this right, the very last D is for the rear cinch, and the two front ones are just to change the ringing? Correct?


----------



## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

Yep first two are the regular cinch and can be used separate or together and the one in the very back behind the fender is for a back cinch


----------



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

After my crappy day today, (broke up with boyfriend and my barn cat died) my grandfather took me tack shopping and bought me my own King Saddle! One that actually fits me! Its identical to his, except for being a smaller seat. 

Here it is! If full rigging. Might move it back some. What do you guys think? Still just to change rigging?


----------

