# Why do people want to break their horses anyways isn't it better to have a fixed one?



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I never planned on training my own horses. I've bought 3 mares that were maybe, maybe not bred. All 3 had foals so I have started 3 from birth to 2 years. I sold my first one and I'm working on the next 2 who just turned 3. 
I planned on sending them off to a trainer when they get to the point I feel I can't handle it. I haven't gotten there yet :lol:
I do see the satisfaction in it. Its nice knowing what the horse knows and doesn't know. What it can handle, its little idiosyncrasies, that sort of thing. 
I think some folks figure its best to train your own than purchase one that you don't know if its been tortured or spoiled. 
I don't think its for everyone. It takes massive amounts of time and patience. 
Again I'm not a horse trainer. I just enjoy teaching horses. Does that make sense? :lol:
ETA- I want to add that I'm a cheap SOB so that may also be a factor in training them myself.:wink:


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

For me it's because I wanted the bond of starting a horse from birth until death. People who bought an already trained horse have NO idea what the bond is like from starting from scratch. I wouldn't take it back for the world. It's alot of time and money but if people have both I say "why not"?. I do agree though that many don't know what they are getting into and get in way too deep.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

My grandpa had an Arabian breeding farm, so I grew up with the most well mannered and well trained horses I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. I was spoiled in that my last two horses were given to me, and both born on our farm so I was an integral part of the training for Playboy, and I trained Zierra myself.

I've worked with enough abused horses that I quite personally find it much more of a headache trying to fix other peoples problems then just starting my own youngster. I would have no problems buying a well trained horse, but I don't see the point in spending thousands of dollars to get what I want when I can spend a few hundred bucks on an unworked youngster and turn them into what I want just as easily.

I just bought a 2 year old that has been screwed with by two total novices who "ran the farm" she came from. Thank god she's intelligent, because she has an attitude like no other along with no real respect for people. Luckily they didn't have long working with her, so I should be able to re-school those bad habits since she didn't have a bad experience, just needs to be taught respect.

I've been on the training end of enough problem horses, or even just older greenbroke horses to know I'd rather have an untouched youngster to mold how I see fit instead of spending all that time attempting to re-school an older horse.

However, I've been around horses since I was born, and I've been riding and working horses my entire life. So there is no "glamour" for me in training my own horse, just a desire to have it done right and not have to deal with manmade problems later on.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Because it's a meaningful experience for the people who want to do it. I don't recommend it all for green horsemen. But for someone who knows horses it's a very cool thing. I broke my horse and it was a great sense of accomplishment to know that we did it together.

There's nothing wrong with it and it's not at all a 'fantasy' deal. There's nothing wrong with a person wanting to start from scratch. It's about it being a challenge, a way to really bond with your horse on a different level (not saying better but different) then if you get an already started horse.

But again, it's not for green riders to do. That's just asking for trouble in most cases. Some people can pull it off, but it's surely not idea.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I know that there are many people who jump right in before realizing how deep the water really is when it comes to training their own. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a very horsey family with a professional trainer as a father. He taught me everything I know about horses (a long way from knowing everything, but I get by). I have trained about 10 horses completely from scratch all by myself and finished many more that were green broke. To me, it is not so much about makeing sure that the horse loves me. I treat them right and they can love me or not, that is their choice. There can be an incredible connection without there being love. It is just about a feeling of accomplishment and pride. There is nothing quite like taking a horse that was so wild that no one has even been able to touch him and get him to a point where I can just walk up to him in the middle of a huge pasture and jump on him bareback to ride back to the barn with nothing more than a thin piece of rope around his nose. It is the pride of seeing that light bulb come on when they realize what I was trying to teach them and perform it perfectly. Plus, because everyone rides so differently, it is nice to know exactly how they will respond to a certain cue instead of a big question mark. When I ride a horse that someone else trained, constant doubts are running through my mind. I ride with spurs, will this horse blow up when I cue him with one? Is he a head slinger or is he a kicker, or maybe is he terrified of anything that looks like a stick because he has been beaten? Plus, I can't afford a well trained horse because they are usually expensive and the only trained horses that are in my price range usually have some serious behavioral issue; bucking, biting, rearing, bolting, etc. To me, it is just easier to train them myself and never create those problems than to try to fix them. I just enjoy the challenge of molding a young mind into a stable horse that I can do anything that I want to on.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I just bought a 2 year old that has been screwed with by two total novices who "ran the farm" she came from. Thank god she's intelligent, because she has an attitude like no other along with no real respect for people. Luckily they didn't have long working with her, so I should be able to re-school those bad habits since she didn't have a bad experience, just needs to be taught respect.


Thats just what I mean, I'm sure the novices thought and said all the things you did. I can't say it isn't an invaluable test for the master horseman that he/she start their own horse, I'm sure that is why my parents choose to give me a foal feeling that my experience warranted it. But I guess what I am saying is that why does everyone think its a great idea! Sure I think everyone should learn how to drive a car, maybe even pop the hood, but build an engine? And that is inanimate. I guess I get frustrated seeing the horses that were started badly go on to lead a life with the title "abused". And I'm also not slamming the good competition riders who forsake some training for talent, but have already surpassed the schoolmasters at the barn. So many people find the need to get a young horse, any horse, and try break it. And honestly that is where I see more people actually lose interest. Those who have worked with babies in multiples I'm sure understand better what it really takes to start a horse. I just wish that everyone who wanted to start their own horse had to take a green broke 3 yr old for a week and see how it goes. Like one of those babies for teenagers things. I


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## barefoot (Jun 11, 2009)

When starting your own horse you build a nice relationship. You can also sell the horse one day for more than you bought him/her for.. so there's a profit. You can also train a horse to do exactly what you want to do, etc. It's just nice  And it feels amazing too.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

People have already told you. It's a challenge, it's a sense of accomplishment, it can establish a really great bond. It's a good thing unless you are also green and really don't know what you are doing. Then there is the risk of yourself or the horse getting hurt. Or both.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

smrobs said:


> I know that there are many people who jump right in before realizing how deep the water really is when it comes to training their own.


 
*raises hand* That was me about 8 years ago...I was 16, seen horses MAYBE 4 times before falling in absolute love with my neighbor's 2 two year old mares. By the grace of god and both mares having hearts of gold, nobody got injured while they taught me to ride, and I taught them respect. I jumped into owning completely blind. My mom had had horses when she was younger, but she never helped with the ground work or riding, let alone actual training...I'd like to say I'm self taught, but those mares taught me almost everything I know. A couple years later I bought Cinder and mom got a Welsh Pony stallion...we ended up with 5 foals. That was another curve ball that taught me alot, like never stand directly in front of a foal! Bad idea! 

ANYWAY, I can't say as I had the desire to start my own, just to have my own. It just so happened that the two I had my eyes on were fresh, never been saddled, lucky they had a trim every 3 months. I have to agree with what others have said though...I'd rather take the time to train my own from scratch than re-train other's wrong-doings. I've been trying to teach Cinder that bucking is NOT her 5th gait for 7 years now and she still hasn't quite caught on!


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## BackInTheSaddleAgain (Apr 20, 2009)

It's mainly about price, bonding and KNOWING a horse's history (because it lies with YOU).


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I think a semi green person can do it, with help. I would never attempt to start a horse without a support system. I have a good friend who has helped me step by step with all of my kids. Between her and her husband they have 70 years of horse training experience. Its their business to train and sell horses and I can't tell you how great it is to have good friends like that!  I wouldn't, couldn't have done it without them.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Semi green is a darker shade of green.  And with help definitely works better than without.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

After having to retrain a "trained" horse who developed some bad habits, I've found its much easier to train the untrained ones.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Cat said:


> After having to retrain a "trained" horse who developed some bad habits, I've found its much easier to train the untrained ones.


Agreed. An untrained horse has a blank slate for a mind and I would rather put my own writings on it thanks.


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

I suppose people think that they can train their own horses like they would their new puppy. Little do people know, it takes a lot more and is a lot more technical than training a dog. You can spank a dog, or as most people do - put it in the yard as an ornament, feed it and water it, and let it live on its own... having a good, broke horse takes so much more! 

I am in a situation relevant to this one right now! 

I'm keeping a horse for a family that has owned them for years. My friend Julene is capable of breaking a horse, and foaled one out of her mare last summer. She gave the filly to her youngest daughter, Ivanna, 12, then divorced her husband of 15 years. Ivanna lives with her dad by choice, in an apartment in town. I've been keeping this filly since February for them, and they've been out TWICE now, to see her. I feel that the first few years are the most integral part of a horse's start at life, and I've had to be responsible for her. Teaching her to lead, stand, lift her feet, TRIM her feet so her legs don't grow crooked... I've even taught her to load in a single horse trailer. The last time Julene's ex came out to see her, he brought me $300, and a whole life's story, and I tried explaining my POV to him, how he has to pay to feed her for another year before he has to pay to have her broke and ride her himself before his 12yr old can get on her. (She's only had minis 30" and under all her life of her own) But the only problem there inlies that he can't even afford to pay to feed her now... 

He is convinced that Ivanna can do it. The fact that she's leggy and jumps 4' 5-strand barbedwire fences from a standstill bothers me when he says his daughter will be able to break her... I almost don't want to give her back to them! I can't imagine the pitiful life she has ahead of her...


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

TroubledTB said:


> So for those of you who start your own horses, what prompts you to do so.


I train, and retrain horses, because I have a gift for it...and I don't mean that in a pompous, prideful way, either. Even from a young age, horses who wouldn't do something for someone else, would do so for me; I had a good teacher who showed me how to work with horses, and learned alot on my own just watching horses interact with each other. I remember one time (I was about 13), and my mom, a friend of hers, and I were at another friend's farm. We went out to the pastures, where they went out to visit the mares, that our friend was interested in. Meanwhile, I, went into the opposite pasture where a bay horse with a crooked blaze and four white stockings was, he came up to me, and I started petting, and rubbing him all over. He moved into my space once, and I bumped his rump with my elbow and he immediately moved back over and stood like a gentleman as I continued to love on him. When the rest of the ladies came over, his owner exclaimed, "He never lets me do that to him! He always bites, and longes at me!"

Now, I could just simply buy well trained horses for myself, but there are always horses like the horse I last bought, who need a person who understands that horses need more than a forceful hand to make them do things for them. When I bought Pride 3 years ago, his owner stated in his ad that he had been trained using "natural methods"; but I knew upon meeting him that something had gone wrong somewhere, because this horse was so fearful out of his mind that it wasn't even funny. He even dragged his owner a good 10 feet when she finally got a hold of his halter. I could have said no, right then and there, but I was looking for a project horse anyway, and figured this one would be just that. If anything, I knew how he would be treated from that day on anyway. The next three years where a transformation that most people, unless, they knew Pride when I first bought him, wouldn't believe. He went from a fearful horse, who was not confident in humans, to one who was eager to learn, and calm in most situations...to date, he was the best trail horse I have ever owned. That, to me, is why training horses is worthwhile. Should every person do it...no...but if you understand horses, then yes, I think you should, if you have the means to; you might be surprised with the outcome. Pride was one in a million, and I know I won't come across one like him anytime soon...and it was all because I took the 'gamble' and chose a project horse over a trained horse.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

TroubledTB said:


> Thats just what I mean, I'm sure the novices thought and said all the things you did.


I don't understand what you mean by that. How did they think and say the same things I did? :? The filly was bred on a boarding farm, and the owner simply let two inexperienced boarders "train" horses for her in exchange for board. They never bothered to stop and think they didn't know what they were doing because they've never had to deal with the other end of bad training before. They were scared of certain behaviors from the filly, like how she blewup when someone handled her feet, and instead of working through it, just ignored it and didn't work on it anymore. What did they care? It wasn't their horse.

So now I've had to risk the safety of both my best friend and my farrier just to get her feet trimmed because they'd never been trimmed thanks to her attitude and were so atrocious that I was shocked she wasn't lame. She blew up a countless amount of times, slamming my friend into the barn walls, and later dragging the farrier for many feet.

If she'd been started by me from birth, she'd be standing asleep for the farrier on a loose leadrope and picking up her feet by voice command as a 2 year old. This attitude wouldn't have to be dealt with because it never would have developed. That is why I prefer to start my own horses from birth, and NOT have to risk both my life and other peoples thanks to people who didn't have a clue.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Now I feel I should have spent the money and sent my filly's to a real trainer :-(
I'm so afraid I am going to mess them up, maybe I am.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Vidaloco said:


> Now I feel I should have spent the money and sent my filly's to a real trainer :-(
> I'm so afraid I am going to mess them up, maybe I am.


I got my horse Gunther when he was a baby, had him at the farm ever since. I did all his ground training and everything. I brought him to the trainers to get him riding broke because I honestly don't know much about riding (I'm still learning myself). But for my first horse the trainer told me that for my first time, ground wise, he was one of the most amazing horses that came to her barn. Lets just say I had a huge smile on my face!

I think bringing him to a pro trainer helps alot, even if you can just watch them, you can always go home and repeat it.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Vida - even people that can train themselves benefit from outside help from time to time. 

If you feel you could use help then definitely work with someone for awhile. Nothing wrong with that at all and it still comes down to you being the one breaking the horse.


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## Rebelappy (Dec 22, 2008)

i will admit that its alot of work i wanted my boy from the time i laid eyes on him as a foal and @ the age of 15 i didnt really think that far a head of what a trip it was going to be owning a colt and how my eyes got opened but i wouldnt change it for the world i did his first 10 rides and it was an experience and a trust bonding moment but i did send him to as trainer to finish cause i was a senior in high school and she did more damange then good ruining my colt its taken about 5 years of retraining him out of her mistakes so i wish i had done the finishing touches on his basics .. then hed been trainined how i wanted in the first place but at least as a baby i got him use to water and clippers and spray bottles all the really spooky stuff so he dosnt spook like some do .. i have 15 year old paint horse that was trainied when we got him and well someone skipped the basics so i get to start over with a teenager no fun at all let me tell you cause hes 1200 lbs and 16.2 hands lot easier when they are 13 hands and 800 lbs but i do agree alot people really dont know what they are getting in to but if they get a good horse out of it that isnt a pest like some then its a life changing experinence


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## Barrelracer Up (May 22, 2009)

As long as your horse is respectful and responding to your cues, then you are probably on the right track. Now, if you are allowing your horse to get away with things - pulling on you, crowding you, kicking, biting, etc........ - then there may be a problem.

If you are ignoring things you can't get her to do, then there may be some issues starting that will need to be dealt with. Being aware of what you expect your horse to do and being assertive in your expectation will go a long way.
Just because your cues/method may be different does not make it wrong or ineffective.

To see what you are doing, have someone video you. That will give you a lot of insight to your body language, your horse's body language, and how the pair of you respond to each other.
Have an experienced horse person watch you or the video and see if they spot any issues. Have an experienced person mess with her and see if they are able to get her to respond properly to them - then you will know if you methods/cues are close enough that she will is responsive to other people.

Being open minded and questioning yourself is good. That means that you are probably able to listen to suggestion or criticism and are willing to try new approaches.

There is nothing wrong with working through it yourself and there is certainly nothing wrong with seeking help.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

I had no intention of starting a young horse. That changed when I bought T and they threw Walka into the deal. He was 2 and pretty much only I had done anything with him.

It has been quite a journey, and one I have learnt so much from. I continue to learn from it and it has made me a better person. I did have a trainer come in a few times to assist me when I was puzzled or not quite sure of the direction to go in. She showed me what to do and I did it. I took the responsibility to training this horse very seriously. I did not want a spoiled dangerous "pet", and he has become a very calm and gentle horse. 

Ground manners were to me of up most importance and I have to admit he is more respectful than T because I didn't allow any margin to mess around in.

Sorry it's so long.

Would I do it again. No. This was a special situation and I have no desire to start another horse. But like many have said, wouldn't have missed this opportunity for the world.

And Vida, I have seen some "professional trainers" mess up a horse. Matter of fact , one destroyed one horses mind from the farm T was from. The owners brought him back slowly and he still has emotional issues because of what was done to him years ago. Your horses trust you, and as long as you are consistent with they're training you'll be fine. Also, I remember you do have good resources nearby to help you when you need it. Your youngsters are doing very well!


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I don't understand what you mean by that. How did they think and say the same things I did? :? The filly was bred on a boarding farm, and the owner simply let two inexperienced boarders "train" horses for her in exchange for board. They never bothered to stop and think they didn't know what they were doing because they've never had to deal with the other end of bad training before. They were scared of certain behaviors from the filly, like how she blewup when someone handled her feet, and instead of working through it, just ignored it and didn't work on it anymore. What did they care? It wasn't their horse.


Ok maybe they didn't think or say same things you did (obviously you have been successful where they failed) but some how they convinced the owner not only to let them train the horses, but compensate them for it. In that sense, they were professionals. Maybe what I am griping about is that there is no test to show a person whether or they can handle the situation or atleast to many people think they can do it, and no one says, here work with my two year old for a week see if you like it. Another thing is that if no one is willing to pay you money for training, why would anyone want to pay money for a horse you trained? People always cite the fact that their value increases, while the other side is always saying how they hate fixing other peoples mistakes! Which is it! Should we all start from scratch and learn to live with our mistakes? As for trainers who screw up horses starting them, anyone can claim to be a trainer. If they screwed up your horse I would just stop refering to them as a trainer, whether or not they claim it. In a perfect world we could go to a trainer you might want to have your horse started by, and ride a horse they started. Then you can preview how your horse might turn out. If they don't have anything like that around, then maybe look somewhere else. You might turn down a good trainer or two, but you will go farther in being able to get exactly what you want.


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## onetoomany (Dec 10, 2008)

TroubledTB said:


> Just because you were the first person it ever took instruction from doesn't mean it necessarily loved you the most. When I think of some of the horses I've dealt with I know they do not love the person who started them the most and this can vary from hate/fear to mere indifference. In fact from what I have observed in training situations the horse tended to favor or be more affectionate to the owner because of promise of a less demanding ride than the trainer might give and the prospect of lots of carrots.


I must say that I heartily disagree with this sentiment, unless the starting has been done in a poor manner, I've found that most horses actually bond better with their trainer. Mainly because a competent trainer will treat the horses in a way it understands and will minimize confusion, as such the horse gains a sense of security through knowing it has a dependable leader who sets firm boundaries. In my experience horses tend to bond better with people who are more confident and firm vs. people who treat Fluffy like Fluffy is people. Just what I've noticed though.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Vidaloco said:


> Now I feel I should have spent the money and sent my filly's to a real trainer :-(
> I'm so afraid I am going to mess them up, maybe I am.


I don't believe for an instant that you will create a problem with either of them. You have enough sense to get help when you don't know what to do or a situation comes up that you can't handle. THAT is what creates many of those poor training situations, people don't know what to do so they just either ignore a certain behavior or try to fix it when they have no clue what caused it in the first place. Many times, the "fix" that they use was causing the original problem and just makes it worse.

TroubledTB, a horse with _proper_ training has an increased value. Nobody wants to buy a horse with dangerous or hard to fix vices. And no matter how things would be in a perfect world, there will always be ignorant and cruel people messing horses up. What other option is there for horses that have been abused or neglected or spoiled than people who know how to re-train them. Of course, not ever person can handle every horse (even professional trainers) but someone has to help for the horse's sake. I have seen well known professional trainers create some of the biggest problems. 

A perfect example is an Appy stallion called American Quest. He belonged to an Appy farm in Kansas in the 70's. He was 2 years old and had been spoiled so badly by their "professional" trainer that he was very dangerous. He would bite, paw, kick, charge, and anything else he could do to hurt a person. Everyone was so afraid of punishing these behaviors so they were just ignored and continued to get worse. By the time my Dad started working for those people, there was no "fixing" this horse. Dad had to inflict massive amounts of pain on this horse many times to earn his respect. Even then, he could never trust him and always had to be on his guard cause if Quest saw just an instant when someone wasn't paying attention, he would hurt someone. Dad successfully showed and won in WP, calf roping, and halter. However, shortly after he quit working for them, Quest got a trainer down in his stall and nearly killed him. Within 3 months, the horse was dead (not for the insurance money surely:evil. All because his original trainer OJ did not have a clue how to handle his agressive tendencies as a foal. 

Everyone needs help at some point, the problem is that some people don't recognize that point and others are so arrogant that they don't believe they need help.


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## Cayuse (May 28, 2009)

Personally I like getting them untouched, This way I don't have to fix other peoples problems. To this date I have never bought a "broke" horse. I train horses and prefer to be the first to start them. This way I know where they are at and what they need and HOPEFULLY avoid a ton of headache.


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## Calamity Jane (Mar 16, 2009)

> Maybe what I am griping about is that there is no test to show a person whether or they can handle the situation or atleast to many people think they can do it, and no one says, here work with my two year old for a week see if you like it.


It would be great if there was some way....like going to the DMV to get your license, and proving that you can drive....to get some kind of general testing for people who think they want to start their own horse....but there's not. And there's never going to be. 

Horses and training offer too many variables. There's no real set rules to any part of it. 

And no one in their right mind (or so I think) would give a green person their 3 yr old to start. see if they screw things up or not. no way, jose! If the person does a horrible job, that's all the more work the owner has to put into the horse to fix things, on top of putting in good training. 



> Another thing is that if no one is willing to pay you money for training, why would anyone want to pay money for a horse you trained?


Actually, there's good reason for people to want to pay for a well trained horse, even though the trainer didn't get paid. That happens all the time. If the trainer (not paid) is a person who knows what's what and does a great job, why shouldn't that person expect to be able to sell the horse for more than what an unbroke goes for? Especially if the horse has good papers, but even if it doesn't, good training can sell a horse for more than if it were just unbroke, regardless if the trainer is a pro or not, paid or not.

Kids take in 4H projects for "free" and they pay for the animal's care and turn around and sell the animal for profit. Same thing when people who don't train for money, take in a horse and turn it into a real nice trail horse, or a discipline horse and get paid. 

There's a rescue here in Calif that takes in horses they've gotten from the auction, they send em to trainers (pro or not, but either way, don't get paid for this horse), and are able to put a decent price on the horse for sale.



> People always cite the fact that their value increases, while the other side is always saying how they hate fixing other peoples mistakes! Which is it! Should we all start from scratch and learn to live with our mistakes?


The horse's value increases only if the training was GOOD. 
If the training was bad, then yeah, someone else will be stuck fixing problems or the poor horse gets dumped. 

Should we all start from scratch? Obviously not. But there are a lot of competent non paid trainers who do a great job. Do some of em screw up? Yeah, but the mistakes can be fixed. I've personally helped a lot of wannabe trainers fix their screw-ups. It's not a forever thing. It's not like your horse and you must live forever with your mistakes...unless you don't get help or learn to fix it yourself. 



> As for trainers who screw up horses starting them, anyone can claim to be a trainer. If they screwed up your horse I would just stop refering to them as a trainer, whether or not they claim it.


 Yup. Good point.



> In a perfect world we could go to a trainer you might want to have your horse started by, and ride a horse they started. Then you can preview how your horse might turn out. If they don't have anything like that around, then maybe look somewhere else. You might turn down a good trainer or two, but you will go farther in being able to get exactly what you want.


 Horses aren't like cars. What if the owner is a lousy rider? If the trainer has a very well trained horse that has precise cues, but the owner doesn't know how to ride, then no matter how well trained the horse is...it's not going to give the owner a real preview (newbies who don't know how to ride is a reality). 

All horses are different, like people. So, if the trainer's horse is high energy and touchy to cues, that is,...it takes very little to get him moving,....vs your horse is a plug....you may find it different to ride your horse vs the trainer's horse. 

There's no generalizing horses. No different than you can say, if you teach two people accounting, it's guaranteed that they'll both be awesome employees. One might be better and the other might have better people skills. 

Now, if the owner is a good rider with decent skills, and their horse is close to being the same as the trainer's horse (some horses are spooky and high strung, other horses are laid back and low key and get cranky, easily)..... then yeah, the owner may get a preview as to what kind of horse they're going to have at the end of the training. 

Another point is...there are trainers who only do really good jobs with certain types of horses and who can completely ruin a horse they don't get along with. So, just because the trainer does a great job with their own horses, doesn't mean they'll do a great job with yours. 

Your best bet when dealing with trainers is to be active in your horse's training. Watch the first lesson, be there at least once a week if not more,...otherwise, you don't know how it's really going and might end up with a very big vet bill or simply a bad trained horse, or a non trained horse (some trainers will charge and not do a thing with the horse). There's no guarantee unless you are active and present as much as possible and not afraid to speak up.

As for your original question....why do people want to start their own horse?
-the challenge
-knowing that what the horse knows and doesn't know is your doing alone
-the bond


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## FlitterBug (May 28, 2009)

I have seen a lot of posts here that all say the same thing: I train my own horses so I don't have to fix other peoples problems. This is all from people who are capable of training their own horses that are explaining why they do so. As far as why people think that they are trainers, its a tough question. As horse people, we are taught to look into the psyche of horses, we, by nature, enjoy being with our horses more than other people, so looking into what is behind the mind of the person that thinks that they know what the heck they are talking about has been a mystery for years. I give credit to the person that piped up and said they thought they could train a horse and learned they couldn't, those aren't the people that we come across a lot.

I manage a rescue barn, I can't tell you specifics about what every horse went through, but give me a few minutes and I can tell you their story through their eyes. I work with a lot of kids, and I see that with each generation, the "do less things wrong". We can't hurt their feelings, they are all equal. They don't learn through working towards success, they are already there because we might "hurt their feelings" if we tell them that they haven't done well in something. One school system around here even did away with grades because they didn't want to make the kids who didn't get As feel bad. How does this pass on to horses? People have become so disconnected from animals that animals are no longer a necessity, but a novelty. Animal behavior used to be understood better, now its all about emotions and "Fluffy doesn't love me!". Of course, many of today's youth are growing up thinking that they really can do no wrong, therefore it must be the horses fault. Most of the riding schools around here have people going over fences within a month of being on a horse's back. Sure, they look like crap, the horse is about broke down, but they can jump! Therefore they must be the best rider in the world and should have no problem training their own horse, right? I see this constantly, not to mention the growing problem of instant gratification and people thinking that this is an option with a horse which requires infinite patience. These are the people that are usually sucked into being pray for the NH nutcases like PP and CA, which actually do more physical harm to horses than anything actually good, but "Look Mom, my horse can jump a picnic table and push a giant ball!" "Oh darn, its also completely on the forehand, breaking at C3, bracing in its neck, dropped in its back, jammed through the cocyx, and so shaky in its balance that we have trouble going in a straight line........ but Pat and Clinton said that we should move onto the next lesson anyway" Yeah, these guys don't help.......

Does that answer your question at all? I'm not saying that is always the case, I have seen the green on green work before, but the person has to be open to understanding the horse and not just making it obedient. Also, I agree with the earlier poster that horses will respect and appreciate a good trainer far more than a novice that gives them carrots. Horses love working if the work feels good to them and is done right. No treats necessarry.

Do I train my own horses from scratch? Yes. Do I fix others problems? Yes. Each horse is a learning experience for me. Many people see the horses job as doing as they are told "giving to pressure" not being bad by bucking or rearing. My job is to listen to the horse. Every horse tells me what went wrong before, and I allow it to find a better way. In return, that horse turns into the most loyal companion I could ask for, always willing to start another job. I also educate the people, which is by far the harder part of the equation. So why do I start my own horse? Because that is what is presented to me. That is my job, to listen to each horse, whether they had a shaky past or not.


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## mpbmorganev (May 24, 2009)

I started training my own pony when I was 14 (he was 2). I have to say that I have a stronger bond and understanding with him than my other 2 geldings that were trained by other people. Now, I'd prefer to train my own than buy an already trained one and fix any problems it may have. 

I really enjoy training my own now because of the strong bond you form with the horse. I now have 2 more project ponies, two mares. One came partially trained (bought her from an auction place) but needs finishing. The other I've started myself. With each horse you train, there are trials and errors, and you can use that knowledge for future training, which has helped me tremendously when training my ponies or riding an already trained horse. 

Training your own really makes you appreciate things more and be more understanding as well as forgiving. I find it much more rewarding, and then you don't have to worry about the horses having 'emotional baggage' from other trainers.


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## ILoveGeorgieMyPony (Apr 19, 2009)

I guess, people just like having a bond with the horse from birth until death.And just the satisfaction of knowing that you trained the horse yourself.Also it's good to know that the horse you own, you know it inside and out, other horses you buy off people could have bad habits that they don't tell you about


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I didn't plan at all. But then I ended up with 2 rescued yearlings. One was SO horrified of people it took couple years for her to be OK with anyone else besides me and my mom (and even now my mom can't do some things I can), and she still doesn't like men after over 3 years after the abused situation. So... I just started to work myself. Giving them to the trainer with all these mental issues was NOT an option. I'm not so sure about the bond and all, but I always prefer to keep horse in comfortable for them conditions, and in this particular case working with them myself was the most comforting way for them to learn things.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

FlitterBug said:


> I have seen a lot of posts here that all say the same thing: I train my own horses so I don't have to fix other peoples problems. This is all from people who are capable of training their own horses that are explaining why they do so.


Wow, your right. I hadn't even thought about it from the other side. If I didn't have the capabilities of training my own, then having them trained or buying an already broke horse would be the only options. I would certainly be upset if I sent a horse off to a "professional" trainer only to have them come back with vices that I would have to pay someone else to fix. I think I would be willing to scrape out the dough for a genuinely good broke horse with no or very minor vices. I thoroughly believe that everyone should know what it feels like to ride a really-really good horse. That way, they can know a good horse when they see it or ride it. Plus, it teaches you that some of the minor vices most people don't even notice, are wrong and annoying.

I wish we lived in a perfect world where every horse was trained properly without the use of either extreme (sticks and beating or "Oh, poor Fluffy is upset.") However, there is not now, nor will there ever be a shortage of stupid people in the world. That is one of the main problems with our society these days (here in the US anyway). Too many people are concerned about hurting feelings that serious behavioral issues are often ignored. Schools are teaching kids that if a parent spanks them, even if they deserved it, to call the cops. I work in a prison and every single day, I see the result of "time-outs" and nintendo babysitters. It is really scary.


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

I'll leave that to the professionals.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Ok, I'm also talking about basic training. I don't claim to be a competent trainer if I was planning on showing my horse for say reining or show jumping. However, I'm a good rider, so in those cases, I'd hire a coach/trainer to work with me AND my horse. I can train the basics in a lot of disciplines, but I'm not a show rider so I never learned the specifics of training in a particular discipline.

If that was the case, I WOULD seek professional help. I just don't need it for getting a horse reliable trail riding ready.


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

wow. this popped up when I wasn't looking..... I guess the simple answer to the original question is : I train because I enjoy it. I started out working with remedial horses that had vices, and holes in their training, and it started out as a 'I'd like to try one that wasn't screwed up when I got it' thing. I love starting colts. The feeling you get when you see that the wheels suddenly click - like 'oh. OH!!! THAT'S what she wants! OK!' It's like watching your kids take their first steps. That's the best I can liken it to. 
NOW, as for some of the other concerns:
there is no way to test trainers and make it a 'standardized' test type of situation. The ways to tell if you have a good one or not, well, here's my checklist that I grew up with:
1) Are you allowed to watch them train? IF so, are they gentle with the horses? Are they patient? Do they loose their temper? Do the horses act fearful? 
2)Watch them ride a horse they started. Pay attention to the tack and gear involved. Is it all gentle or do they need correction equipment? 
3)references. Do they have any? IF they're just starting out, ask about them as a horseman. They should have at least references that can vouch for their ability to handle a horse. (You'd be surprised how many I've met that don't)
Ask them about their personal horses. Who trained them, how do they act? etc.. 

Remember too, Just because someone is a newer trainer is no reason to discount them entirely. Everyone has to start somewhere. It's what they do with their knowledge that counts.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

My question is, what do you mean by starting? Are we talking baby baby babies or backing them? 

I "started" an 11 year old mare that had been wild/abused all her life. All she really knew was that people were the enemy and halters caused pain. i was the first on her back and the first to teach her how to lead. is that starting?

Some people want to know about everything that has happened in their horses lives. some people are stupid and jump in before thinking. some people just plain old do it wrong. 

i find that i get bored on well-trained horses. I LOVE to help the abused or mistreated ones, whether babies or adults. my old trainer used to make fun of me saying that I could train any horse how to jump, the horse would look pretty and i would look like crap, but we jumped. we had a system. i taught them the basics and he taught them how to look pretty doing it.

personally, i would much rather change a horse's mind about humans than buy one that is well-trained and happy. there are too many that are mistreated out there.


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

yeah, Piper. I'd consider that starting  I just say starting rather than breaking. I prefer the younger horses though to the older. It's not that I can't or won't do older horses, it's just that the young ones learn so quickly - especially when they've been handled properly.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Ok, I'm also talking about basic training. I don't claim to be a competent trainer if I was planning on showing my horse for say reining or show jumping. However, I'm a good rider, so in those cases, I'd hire a coach/trainer to work with me AND my horse. I can train the basics in a lot of disciplines, but I'm not a show rider so I never learned the specifics of training in a particular discipline.
> 
> If that was the case, I WOULD seek professional help. I just don't need it for getting a horse reliable trail riding ready.


Good point, I suppose someone who takes the time to put proper ground manners and first back a horse is beneficial, rather than leaving them out in a field till they are three then sending them to a trainer and wondering why their horse isn't as "perfect" as you assumed it would be.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

There's also nothing wrong with leaving a horse out until they are three. A lot of people used to do that before riding a 2 year old became so popular. Just because a horse gets started later doesn't mean it can't have a good foundation. Whether it's sent to a trainer or trained by the owner.

If someone does not feel confident in training a horse to ride or even ground manners there's nothing wrong with getting help. But there's also nothing wrong with someone wanting to start their own horse. Hopefully if they are green, they understand about getting outside help so no one gets hurt. 

But there's a great amount of accomplishment in working with your horse through all the different levels.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree completely Solon. Dobe had only been touched by human hands one time before I got him as a 3 year old. And that was to run him up in a squeeze chute to brand him and give shots.  It took some work to build his trust but now he has excellent manners and is an all around wonderful horse (stands completely calm for vet, farrier, clipping, baths, and loves the trailer). I can't even think of any vices that he has other than acting like a herd stallion. LOL.


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

I handle my horses from birth, and teach them good manners and to stand quietly for the farrier right from the get go, if at all possible, just because it's easier for me to correct a snotty 300# horse rather than an 1100# horse. Otherwise, they aren't lunged or worked at all until they're 3.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

My filly will be a year in August, and I got her when she was 7 months. Why? Because I wanted her. She was adorable, I wanted a baby, I wanted a project, I wanted to train, and she was free. I don't mean to brag, but Gracie is a very, very well behaved "yearling." No, I haven't started a horse before, but I've been riding horses for years, and to me, it's just common sense. It really isn't that "hard" for me to be working with Gracie, I guess I have a gift for it, like mom2pride said. Some people build cars, some people draw, I work with horses. If I ever need help in her future training, I'll ask for it. 

To get down to it, if a green horseperson wants a green horse, I don't see a problem with it, as long as they can ask for help when they need it. Why shouldn't a never-before-dog-owner get a puppy? Yeah, I know, I know, horses and dogs are different, but the idea behind it, the whole principle is the same.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

riccil, i don't think the principle is the same at all between dogs and horses. it is far easier to mess up a horse for life- making them lame or dangerous- than it is a dog. 

For a green rider to have a green horse is terrible. Both of them will teach each other bad habits. I saw a green girl "train" her greenie to jump. He tended to lean left so she got into the habit of leaning right to balance him. she falls off almost every other horse she rides because of it. If a dog has a habit of peeing on the rug, he is not going to teach his owner to pee on the rug as well, even if the owner doesn't know much about puppies.

A good friend of mine only walks- maybe trot if i force her- and she bought a 3 year old Gypsy Vanner a year ago. She was told he was much further in his training than he is and even she realizes that the buy was a bad decision. the only reason she has kept him is because me and other people around my barn are willing to work with him and both of them for free. (and she gets bad advice all the time, like when he tries to put his head down for grass, give with the reins and kick. she didn't know any better and he got away with eating for a month before we saw it).

I think, if you are a green rider, get a horse that can teach you the correct way. A horse is a far better trainer than one you can pay.


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

amen to that, Piper.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I have trained both. I'll take a dog to train any day. 

Horses and dogs are WAAAY different when if comes to training. Their roles with humans are completely different. The dog is bred and programmed to be way more of a partner to humans than the horse was. Dogs are predators. Horses are prey animals and each learns differently. Dogs are "smarter"(I'll get flack for this I am sure), they start and live their lives differently, they have shorter lifespans. Comparing dogs to horses is not very accurate. There are some similarities, when it comes to animal energies and whatnot, but as a species they are incomparable. 

My eight year old nephew can teach a dog to sit. That is easy. Could he teach a horse to lead? Wouldn't even occur to me to let him try. Not for a few more years anyway.

A first time dog owner, with a little research, could easily train a puppy. It happens every day. However there have been MANY upon MANY horses that have been completely ruined/screwed up by first time horse owners trying to train a new horse. (maybe they were treated like dogs?) 

With horses, often our relationship starts with them being the teachers. Many times, the human does not ever gain the skills required to reverse that role, which is perfectly acceptable. 

When learning to train horses, far better is it to have someone firsthand show you, perhaps do it all and have you help. Watching, helping, then doing under supervision is the best way to learn how to I think. 

I am coming up on breaking my colt to ride and drive. I am very tempted to just say "Daddy, do it for me." because he will, and I love this horse more than anything. I know I don't know enough to do it all by myself, and this is the LAST horse I want to screw up.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Actually, I disagree with Piper completely. Messing up a dog, who is a predator animal, can have even more dangerous and disasterous consequences then messing up a horse. Dogs are much more prone to revert to a deadly and dangerous behavior then horses. Unless you find yourself with a true outlaw, the vast majority of horses never have any intention of hurting a human. Messed up dogs do, and with often fatal consequences.

I don't think it is fair for anyone to accurately make the statement of a green rider and a green horse being terrible for each other. As was stated, it's nothing more then common sense. It's not rocket science to break a horse out to basic riding and manners. Naturally, it's a heck of a lot easier when you have the experience to deal with any problems that arise, but the most experienced equestrian can encounter a problem they've never dealt with before and have no idea how to fix it.

Shay-la had ridden a horse maybe a half dozen times in her life before buying Dove and Flika as 2 year olds. She didn't have a clue. She educated herself with other horse people, and common sense. And now at 11 years old, both mares are the epitome of perfect manners and safe mounts. Any novice can ride either of them with ease, and without fear of being bucked off, reared on or bolted with. However, Shay-la was also raised in a family that bred and trained aggression dogs for the police force. Repition and patience is the key for any animal, regardless of size and species.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I wonder about the dog thing too. Dogs can get really nasty if they aren't trained correctly.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Solon said:


> I wonder about the dog thing too. Dogs can get really nasty if they aren't trained correctly.


*nods* We had a border collie X german shepherd who we got as a puppy and was trained properly. Unfortunately, we also had neighbours with the devil sitting on their shoulders who thought it was amusing to hit her with hockey sticks and watch her freak out at the fence. We had so many idiots tease her, she became downright vicious towards strangers. It took years until we had her to the point where she'd come back immediately when we called her, but she never stopped trying to go after strangers. And this WAS a well trained dog that was completely trustworthy around me and my young sister. It doesn't take much for a dog to revert to a vicious status, and half the time it doesn't even have to be from abuse, just lack of proper training.

We don't let little kids work with horses because they may get stepped on by accident, but I don't see how it makes much more sense to allow a kid to work with an animal that could tear it's face off in an instant. Both animals require finesse and know how to prevent dangerous behavior.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

TroubledTB said:


> ! So for those of you who start your own horses, what prompts you to do so. :lol:


I will only pick stallions or gelding, no mares and only ones that are not broke and 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 preferred.
I want a horse that has not be spoiled by others trying to start him. If it is a stallion he will be gelded the very next day, I will not keep a stallion. From the first day i get a horse I expect him to behave in a certain manner. He will learn to ride a certain way. No exceptions to my way of doing it so by starting with something totally unbroken I can mold him the way I want. To my way of doing things.
I will very carefully select for the temperment I am looking for and will turn down anything that doesn't meet my criteria.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Thank you Macabre, that was kind of my point. They are different yes, and going about things and the results are different, but while you really only have one shot to create a nice dog, and ultimately taking full control of whether the dog will have to be put down at 4 for biting, or live it's whole life happy, how is it any different to take on a horse, a harder animal to train, and take a shot at it, when someone can come along and fix any mistakes?


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

This is going a bit off topic so I think a new thread might be in order. Not all mistakes can be fixed with horses. Not all mistakes can be fixed with dogs. But dogs are far easier to train than horses, in my opinion. A little bit of moist, tasty food, and the right mindset/energy they are all ears, so to speak. All the horse trainers I have talked to say that fixing horses is one of the things they hate doing above all else. Sometimes they succeed and other times, they do not depending on what overall affect the mishandling had on the horse. It is also way more expensive to try and fix the mistakes caused by an untrained hand. Just by sheer size, strength, and reactions, I see the horse as the more dangerous creature. 

Coming from a girl with four rescues currently and has had many others before, you do not have only one shot to create a good dog. The only thing about dogs is that they are easier to cast aside when you fail.

I do think Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer's tagline works for both species though. "Exercise, discipline, affection." Or as Clinton Anderson says "A lot of the horses I see are over fed and under worked." 

Ideally, before taking on either, a person should do their homework, research, and preferably get hands on instruction, but without doing any of those, I believe that the person with the dog is more likely to succeed.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

IMHO, the correlation between training horses and dogs is actually very similar along the basic principles. To train any animal requires a firm, fair, and consistent hand coupled with at least an inkling of knowledge. If someone has never seen a dog in real life, the idea that they might me able to teach it to sit or roll over is unlikely. A horse, trained improperly, has the potential to be dangerous just due to its sheer size. A horse can kill a person with very little try behind it. Horses usually take longer and more harsh treatment to become very agressive or vicious because they are prey animals. However, dogs are easier to turn vicious because realistically, vicious is a part of their blood being predators. Most of the time however, it is hard for a single dog to kill an adult (children are another matter). Even the training methods are very similar; some people use treats for training both species, I however, prefer the pressure and release for dogs and horses. That way they don't become dependant on the treats to entice them to act properly. I personally think the only difference is what specifically they are taught. Dogs are taught to sit, roll over, fetch, shake, etc. Not many people teach their horses that for any other reason than party tricks.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

LadyDreamer said:


> A first time dog owner, with a little research, could easily train a puppy. It happens every day. However there have been MANY upon MANY horses that have been completely ruined/screwed up by first time horse owners trying to train a new horse. (maybe they were treated like dogs?)


That's where my frustration comes from. I see to many people get horses and expect it to be a dog. Not only are they completely different, but then, even when the horse is acting like a completely acceptable horse they are offended because they want it to act like a dog. They want it to come when they call, sit, lay down, roll over. When the horse doesn't comply it is labeled as bad and they think it was at fault, not their lack of training. To many people think horses are going to be a breeze because they read this book, or so and so did it and was fine. I don't know, I am getting perspective on why people like to do it, but I will never be convinced green horse and green owner are suited, and by green I mean someone who has never handled an unbroke horse. Even the average lesson rider is not suited to a youngster IMO. Just because you know the head from the tail, doesn't mean you can train it to walk straight. I do think someone who has taken lessons, and wants a project and will continue to work with a trainer can learn how to start a horse because they have experience with what a horse can do, so they know what they want, just not how to get it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Green + green = black and blue. That is the old saying and generally holds true. There are a few success stories here and there but usually, it is an injury waiting to happen. But then again, if there were no people willing to train horses or fix problem horses, how would anyone have any to ride? LOL


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

TroubledTB said:


> by green I mean someone who has never handled an unbroke horse.


So then how exactly does one ever gain experience? Even the best trainer had to start with a first unbroke horse. Green should mean a novice rider, not someone who's never handled an unbroke horse because we all need to eventually to advance as trainers. It's just a matter of having enough experience under your belt with different kinds of horses to know how to start one. I'd never started a youngster from scratch before Zierra, but I had a lifetime of experience and so I didn't have a problem training her.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

I've always found that the best way to learn how to handle an unbroke horse is to be a trainer's "assistent". Let them show you the propper way to do certain things. you don't have to be alone to learn.

I question: If a person is green... common sense or not, how are they supposed to know what to train? If you tell a kid who only knows how to jump simple horses to train a 5 year old to jump, i'll bet money the kid either gets thrown, gets lucky, or just messes up the horse royally.

I agree that dogs are easy to mess up, but most can be rehabilitated. their value doesn't go out the window if they break a leg and need some time to heal. My friend just adopted five pitbulls that were found abused and starved and used in dog fights. 20 dogs came in, one had to get put down because he was too far gone, the 19 others turned out to be big lovermuffins when they had food. My friend has 3 little kids and these dogs are sweeter and cuddly with them then anyone.

I've seen horses that came from similar situations. you give them food, fatten them up, take care of them, you are still going to have a long road ahead of you and its doubtful that horse will ever be "cuddly."

I don't think a person has any business training a horse if all they can do is spit out information from books or other trainers. Even the biggest trainers around say that their methods work on most horses but not all. I think you have to have a personal compilation of training techniques that fits your personality and meld to others.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> So then how exactly does one ever gain experience? Even the best trainer had to start with a first unbroke horse. Green should mean a novice rider, not someone who's never handled an unbroke horse because we all need to eventually to advance as trainers. It's just a matter of having enough experience under your belt with different kinds of horses to know how to start one. I'd never started a youngster from scratch before Zierra, but I had a lifetime of experience and so I didn't have a problem training her.


If someone has handled green horses is given the opportunity to handle an unbroke/unhandled one they are going to have trouble but will probably be fine. If the average lesson rider who deals with kind old Jake or Frank or Sam gets a hold of something as unpredictable as a baby, there is going to be problems. I just see people who have had one perfect horse all their life, who came trained, and want a young one expecting it to come out the same. I also was just curious why people like to break horses, I have done it, but I just think it can be mundane to be stuck doing the lower level stuff forever. I would do it again, but if given unlimited funds, I would want something trained to move up on. I just don't find them that fun until they are five or so. Of course I don't have kids, and I look at people with toddlers and sometimes think the same thing! One day I might learn my lesson by having a kid, but if I could buy a trained one of those I would probably do it too. :twisted:


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

TroubledTB said:


> . I also was just curious why people like to break horses, . :twisted:


I love to take something that is really useless and turn it into a beautiful working animal. I usually start with something that has not been handled before, some 3 or 4 year old spoiled stallion and watch it grow under my training to a beautiful animal. They usually blossom and put on 1 to 2 inches in the first 6 months, gain weight/muscle and become very versitile. It usually take me 1 1/2 to 2 years but after that time he will be head and shoulders above anything else around him.
The reward is the finished product.

example.
This was a 4 year old that I saw and I saw something in him so I bought him. A poor underweight guy and a real bad carracter.









This is him 6 months later. An absolute sweet heart, filled out, well started and on his way to to becoming what he was intend to be under my guidance That is my reward


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

RiosDad said:


> I love to take something that is really useless and turn it into a beautiful working animal. The reward is the finished product.
> 
> example.
> This was a 4 year old that I saw and I saw something in him so I bought him. A poor underweight guy and a real bad carracter.
> ...


 That is exactly how I feel. He is absolutely stunning by the way. I love that color.


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## Brumby (Nov 5, 2008)

For me it was because I really want to be a proffesional trainer, so no better way to get good at it that to practice. I think it it a blast to do. And I do feel that there is more of a bond with you, if you do it right. Sometimes I would prefer a non-trained horse (when buying) because it hasn't had the chance of picking up bad habbit from previous mistakes that need to worked out.


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## IheartPheobe (Feb 15, 2009)

Though I've never trained from scratch I have helped train horses at my barn. I helped train Milo English, attempted to help Roger to be a safe ride [We decided to only use him walk trot now] and helped train Horace out of his bad habits.. I helped train Gonzo to be less spooky [and he is doing SO well!] Basically, I think it's very rewarding when your previously western horse get's over a 2'0 verticle for the first time, or your crazy pony canters for you without bucking, or your incredibly spooky pony doesn't even flinch when someone screams, or when your horribly hard-mouthed horse is responding with the flick of a rein.. ya know? I love it, but I don't have anything against riding trained horses. =]


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Brumby said:


> Sometimes I would prefer a non-trained horse (when buying) because it hasn't had the chance of picking up bad habbit from previous mistakes that need to worked out.


this is all I work with. I only work with geldings, stallions are cut immediately and I will not start a mare.
These boys are straight out of the field or locked in stalls but they have no handling on them. Most don't even tie.
Suprisingly a horse like this that cow kicks every chance it gets, bits and tries to bust ties are quick to straighten out, usually a few corrections and you have a good mannered horse. they never kick twice, biting is quickly discouraged and they are tied to something they just can't break so they quickly learn to tie.
Starting with a pet or someone elses spoiled horse takes far far longer and to ME they never become as broke as the boys I start with.
I will NOT buy a prospect until I test him for how he can handle stress and if he passes my test I will buy him. Again no mares.


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## Brumby (Nov 5, 2008)

RiosDad said:


> this is all I work with. I only work with geldings, stallions are cut immediately and I will not start a mare.
> These boys are straight out of the field or locked in stalls but they have no handling on them. Most don't even tie.
> Suprisingly a horse like this that cow kicks every chance it gets, bits and tries to bust ties are quick to straighten out, usually a few corrections and you have a good mannered horse. they never kick twice, biting is quickly discouraged and they are tied to something they just can't break so they quickly learn to tie.
> Starting with a pet or someone elses spoiled horse takes far far longer and to ME they never become as broke as the boys I start with.
> I will NOT buy a prospect until I test him for how he can handle stress and if he passes my test I will buy him. Again no mares.


 
Why don't you work with mares? And why do you insist on cutting the studs? Just wondering.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Brumby said:


> Why don't you work with mares? And why do you insist on cutting the studs? Just wondering.


I'm not into breeding and have no interest in raising babies. There is no money in them and it takes years, 4 at least to get something ridable. For the money I would have in a baby I could go out and buy something and there is no guess work in what I am going to get.
As for mares? I shoe on the side, have for 23 years and I find some mare hard to handle at certain times so we adjust their schedule for good days, not bad. I want the even temperment of a gelding. 
I have rode stallions for years but in the end something happens that I cut them so why wait? Just do it and you have an even tempered fellow.
Like me:lol::lol:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Some people just don't get along with mares or just don't like them. I am like that too. I don't refuse to work with mares but I prefer to work with geldings. I have never ridden a mare that I really got along with, even the old 28 year old mare that has been around since I was a little kid. I rode her a lot but never really liked to. If the horse has been abandoned or never been handled, then they are probably not good stud quality to begin with and many are probably grade. Long story short, they are not stud prospects and should be cut immediately. Plus, gelding them makes them much easier to train and handle and more trustworthy. Regardless of how much training a stud has, you can never really trust them at all times.


Wow, sorry RiosDad. Looks like we posted at the same time.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Brumby said:


> Why don't you work with mares? And why do you insist on cutting the studs? Just wondering.


I will work with mares on a short term bases. Solving problems but to start from scratch I want a gelding.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

RiosDad said:


> I shoe on the side, have for 23 years and I find some mare hard to handle at certain times so we adjust their schedule for good days, not bad.


But on other side they have SO much personality. :lol: I agree though - both my mares are not very happy with the farrier visits sometime.


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## Brumby (Nov 5, 2008)

oh, I see. I kinda like mares. I like geldings and stallions too. But I totally see were you are coming from.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Brumby said:


> oh, I see. I kinda like mares. I like geldings and stallions too. But I totally see were you are coming from.


I love the picture of your horse. I would like to hear more abut him. He is gorgous


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

TroubledTB - Ok, I agree with that line of thinking! The only reason I felt confident enough to tackle Zierra was because I've been riding since I was born, just completely immersed in horses. I've taken lessons, I've done jobs, and I worked snotty horses before she was born. I was also an integral part of my aunt training my gelding when I was 10 years old. So when it came time for me to train my first raw green horse, it was all the common sense I'd been applying for years on trained and semi-trained horses anyway. Though, I have to say, I think I found it WAY easier that she was born with me. I was able to put so much time into her, that by the time riding came, she didn't bat an eyelash. As a first green horse, I think I'd have had a LOT more problems buying a half-grown youngster and trying to figure out how to fix problems AND train at the same time, which is what I'm doing now for my 2 year old Paint. But now I have the neccesary experience training half-green horses and foals for the last decade to know exactly what I want.

I actually bought Jynx specifically for the purpose of a training project. My Arab mare has sort of reached the "been there, done that" state where I can do almost anything with her, and I wanted more of a challange this summer. I really didn't even need another horse, but I think I enjoy horses best when I'm training them, so now I have a reliable riding horse plus a project and it makes for a nice balance. Depending on how she breaks out, I may or may not end up selling her.

And as for the mares thing - ROFL! We have 8 horses, and SEVEN are mares! It makes for some interesting times :lol: The two lead mares act unbelieveably studdy (arched necks, blowing, snorting) so the girls flock to them when they're in heat. However, I don't mind mares. None of them are "moody". You can't handle my Arabs back legs for crap when she's in heat (she just squats and pees on you), but the rest barely even show signs. If they do, it's to become unbelieveably affectionate and sweet towards us.

I used to prefer geldings, but I definately find mares have more personality on average.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

I love mares. I mean, i've met plenty of little boys that i love too, but i love mares usually. especially pony mares. i love it when they have a little firey side. one of my favorite mares was 12 hands, jumped 4 feet, would step on your feet if she didn't think you were paying attention, tried to bite you randomly, and had a lovely little habit of becoming a bucking bronco when she was bored. she really kept me on my toes.

i don't even mind the bratty ones. i think it just means their more like me, haha


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