# Make Bitless Bridles Legal



## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

I really want bitless bridles to be legal in dressage! Here in the UK, we are getting somewhere with it. So maybe in a few years some bitless bridles will be legal in low level dressage. I can't see the problem with it!


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## henia (Jul 31, 2011)

In few weeks in my city there are competitiins in riding without bridle at all. I am so anxious to see it. But it is for the first time. 
Ialso want bitless bridle be allowed in sport. Maybe I will do some sport then...?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> It may prove more fruitful if you asked if a new open class (all ages) could be introduced once the definition of bitless is decided upon.


That's the can of worms...the definition.
Some breeds have Western Pleasure hackamore (bosal) classes for young horses. Are English (short shanked mechanical) hackamores allowed for jumpers? Not sure.
I suppose if you get a large enough group asking for something, well, who knows.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

In sporting events where you are against the clock, usually anything goes. It's the saddle classes that bow to certain protocol.


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

Dustbunny said:


> That's the can of worms...the definition.
> Some breeds have Western Pleasure hackamore (bosal) classes for young horses. Are English (short shanked mechanical) hackamores allowed for jumpers? Not sure.
> I suppose if you get a large enough group asking for something, well, who knows.


We don't really have the big separate classes over here like you do in the US, like Hunter/Jumpers etc., unless you're showing in a working hunter class, but it's generally just "show jumping", and pretty much anything goes. Huge bits, bitless, combination bridles (becoming more popular), gag bits, no bridle at all... I worked at Horse of the Year Show last year, and saw a HUGE variety in bits/bitless combinations. Most bitless bridles were mechanical hacks though.



















I've noticed in the show jumping world, people seem to be moving to what the horse prefers, rather than what they think it should have, and I think they are seeing better results. I understand why many use bits/bridles with so much leverage, as they are really flying round in the speed classes/jump offs, but I've also seen a rise in the number of people using snaffles too.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

That last one she is using a war bridle. Its leather that goes through the horses mouth so in a way it is a bit. Works though.


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## BitlessForHappiness (Sep 17, 2010)

I put out some feelers to the competition world (USEF, letters to the editors of horse magazines, etc) and the responses were utterly incongruous. Some said "your horse won't respond as well and you will have an unfair disadvantage" while others said, "You will have an unfair advantage." The reasoning doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I'm hopeful that people will come around! People have performed beautiful dressage hitless. It's practice and training, not the equipment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'd be curious to see a video of someone doing really top class dressage bit less.


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## BitlessForHappiness (Sep 17, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> I'd be curious to see a video of someone doing really top class dressage bit less.


You won't find a video of it in competition, given that they're outlawed. And, granted, I'm not much of a judge of dressage. But I have seen horses balanced bitless just as well as I've seen horses balanced in a bit at the dressage barn I'm at. I truly think it can be done. A horse can stretch down into its bridle even without a bit, and certain bitless bridles provide a good amount of control if you want to get them rounder. 

But you're right, I haven't looked extensively beyond the few images I've seen on bitless bridle pages. I'll look sometime! Anyone else have thoughts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I'd be curious to see a video of someone doing really top class dressage bit less.


I'd love to see this too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I'd be curious to see a video of someone doing really top class dressage bit less.





SlideStop said:


> I'd love to see this too!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was rather curious too, so I had a bit of a search :lol:

I found this video - now, I know this may not be "top class" or whatever, but it's still pretty good. However, I thought the video just seemed to be a showcase of "my pretty pony can do endless one and two time changes in a bitless bridle", rather than truly showcasing their dressage skills.

The horse also doesn't seem as balanced in the pirouettes as he could be, but those are just my observations.

Essentially, it's all very good, but I'm not totally sold on bitless Grand Prix dressage yet :wink:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ If that is bitless dressage, I think it will be a tough sale! :shock:

I suspect there is also a difference between LEARNING dressage bitless and PERFORMING it bitless after it has been taught. I'm not a dressage rider, but I can see how a MILD amount of collection could be taught bitless, but not a significant amount.

I also don't see any reason for it. If bits caused pain, then I would understand it. But a decent bit with a decent rider will not cause pain, so what is the point? And if it involves teaching dressage in a bit and then performing it without...again, what is the point?

If you want a bitless dressage sport, create one. Prove it can be taught and performed at a reasonable level, and THEN tell the FEI why they are wrong. Otherwise, you are ****ing in the wind.


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

bsms said:


> ^^ If that is bitless dressage, I think it will be a tough sale! :shock:
> 
> I suspect there is also a difference between LEARNING dressage bitless and PERFORMING it bitless after it has been taught. I'm not a dressage rider, but I can see how a MILD amount of collection could be taught bitless, but not a significant amount.
> 
> ...


I totally agree, and I imagine this horse may have been taught with a bit first - having looked on the woman's channel, she rides most of her horses traditionally with a bit by the looks of it. So yeah, either this horse goes better for her in a bitless bridle (possibly), or it's a gimmick to make her look like a better rider (more likely, IMO).


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## forevermyhero89 (Aug 7, 2016)

I still think it's ridiculous that bitless hasn't been legalized in competitions worldwide, especially high-level. The FEI's reasoning of why no one is allowed to compete in a bitless bridle or hackamore isn't good enough for me, as I'm sure it isn't for others, too. "People in a bitless bridle will have an unfair disadvantage,"... OK, but if my horse has been trained that way then they're gonna be as good at bitless as the others competitor's horses are with a bit. 

If I'm the one who's going to be competing bitless, them I don't really care if I'm going to have "an unfair disadvantage" - it's my choice, my horse is completely safe to ride bitless, he's been trained that way, we have a good bond, and most importantly, he prefers working without a bit. Don't get me wrong I could ride him in a bit, but because I don't feel the need to go showing, I don't ride him in a bit. If I wanted to go showing, I'd have to buy a bit because I don't own one at all. One of the main reasons for this is because he doesn't need it.

At the end of the day, I think competitions should be open to ALL horse and rider combinations, both bitless and bitted. It really isn't fair towards the bitless riders/ competitors. Finding a local show that will allow bitless isn't easy, and in fact, there isn't any at all in my area, so I can't show at all. I don't really have an interest in showing, but it would be really nice for me and my horse to get out there and have fun at a local showjumping competition one day before he fully retires!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

This is an old thread 
But
I think you'll find that most showjumping competitions can be ridden in bitless - even at Olympic level horses have competed bitless in mechanical hackamores
In dressage there would have to be a separate class for bitless because dressage is traditionally a 'test of training' and part of that training involves a horse responding correctly to a snaffle bit and later on a double bridle


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## forevermyhero89 (Aug 7, 2016)

jaydee said:


> This is an old thread
> But
> I think you'll find that most showjumping competitions can be ridden in bitless - even at Olympic level horses have competed bitless in mechanical hackamores
> In dressage there would have to be a separate class for bitless because dressage is traditionally a 'test of training' and part of that training involves a horse responding correctly to a snaffle bit and later on a double bridle



Well I think that's ridiculous. There's so much discrimination in this world. I don't know where you've heard of Olympic level horses being ridden bitless though. I've seen all the Equestrian Olympics except for one since I've been alive, and not once have I seen a bitless competitor. And I pay special attention to the type of bit being used. The only thing I've ever seen is a gag bit/mechanical hackamore combination, or something similar. Never, ever seen a bitless competitor at the Olympics, or heard of one.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

. Gerco Scheoder with London, found him with a 2 min google search. There is also a tonne of other riders who use nothing more than snaffles.

Jaydee is right on Dressage. You can't do Dressage bitless without fundamental altering it. The whole point is to educate a horse and if they can't be ridden in a correct contact, then they are not educated. Any dressage you see done bitless was first done with a bit. Show me a horse trained to PSG with the scores to back it up, entirely bitless and I will concede.

Is it discrimination not to reward holes in training?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I don't understand why it matters. Bits aren't cruel, hands are cruel. Bitless bridles can be just as severe as the most severe bit. So there is no real difference, is there? The idea that bitless is somehow more "natural" or "kinder" is as far as I can tell just a romantic crock of baloney. 

Plenty of horses are trained in one rig and shown in another, for various reasons. 

If your horse goes better with a different form of control than a bit, who cares?

Personally, I'd like to understand why tying a horse's mouth shut is allowed in any form of competition.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Whats the difference- it matters HOW the horse looks, and I see a horse ridden with tight contact, behind the vertical, and if that is caused by mouth contact or nose contact, what id the difference?
Just because a devise is bittless, does not make it 'kinder, milder, as some mechanical hackamores are very severe,, often used on hroses that have learned to run through a bit
Why not have straight bittless classes, similar to bosal classes for jr horse, western?
While I believe any well trained horse should be able to be ridden bittless, I also think they should be able to be ridden in a bit, unless there is a mouth issue
I have no problem with bittless, for the right reason, just the subliminal message it si kinder, milder, ect, which is often not true
Some horses do not like that constant pressure, exerted by some of those bittless devises, and truly are happier ridden with a bit.
Bits also allow more 'finesse in communication
I don't see the problem, far as show rules. If your horse is broke, he should be able to be shown with a bit, even though you might prefer to ride bittless, most of the time
Different disciplines, different rules. For instance, mechanical hackamores, legal in jumping, are not legal in western performance events, other then games


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

No different then a western horse,age six and up, needing to be shown in a curb, one handed. It is not because the horse can;t be shown in a snaffle or bosal, but rather because he is expected to have the education, to be ridden one handed, with a curb
Tracy Westfall, and some others, can do bittless free style reining, yet when she and others, show those hroses in regular reining classes, they show by the rules, and that includes bits
You ride according to the rules any organization is run under.
If enough members of that organization, wish to put in a bittless class, either for senior western horses, or dressage horses, or have a class where senior western hroses can be ridden two handed in a snaffle, or a host of other deviations, join that organization and lobby for some rule changes


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Fairness???? Go trail riding. You can wear whatever you want and use whatever equipment you want. And the horse can be trained or not. It can be a pleasant experience or a flippin free-for-all. No rules unless you sign up for some of those sponsored rides that look like the Oklahoma land rush.
Off hand I can't think of any sport without rules and limitations. Rules are there for a reason. I agree with Smilie...if you want changes you are going to have to get involved, and be prepared for possible failure.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

forevermyhero89 said:


> I don't know where you've heard of Olympic level horses being ridden bitless though. I've seen all the Equestrian Olympics except for one since I've been alive, and not once have I seen a bitless competitor.
> or heard of one.


 I guess you missed that Olympic silver medalist then?
Even as far back as 1975 Irish rider Eddie Macken and the amazing Boomerang either won or were placed second in a record-breaking 32 major Grand Prix events or Derby events over Europe and the US. He rode him in a German hackamore.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

This is what I came up with, far as German hackamore. 
https://www.google.ca/search?q=germ...M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.shutterstock.com%2

So, it is a mechanical hackamore, and can be just as severe as any curb bit, depending on training of the hrose, and hands of the rider
I am sure though, this thread's lobby is towards a none leverage bittless devise
So, then, not knowing dressage rules, is a mechanical hackmore show legal?
What about a plain bittless bridle, no leverage?
Is there even a rule then, that does not allow anyone to show dressage in a bittless bridle, as in a Dr Cook type , and thus,the entire thread redundant?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Legal hackamores + dressage, any rule as to what type can be used?

Far as I can see, 'traditional dressage;, has the horse shown in a bridle, although of course, once the horse has the training, it is possible, on the well trained ones, to use anything, or even nothing on the head, and what allows bridless demos in the first place.
The idea that bits are cruel, mainly arises from people who perhaps are at the level, where it is best that they do not ride with a bit, as a bittless devise, most times, is more forgiving, of rider error then a bit, esp when you go to to more advanced bits
For instance, a Spade bit , is abit that allows very light finger tip signal, thus achieves great finesse, BUt only, on a horse trained to that level, going through the snaffle/bosal and double rein periods of training, before they are up completely in that Spade bit, and must be ridden by a rider educated in that training process
I image upper dressage horses ridden in double bridles, have much of the same ideology behind that, along with tradition.
We now have 'western dressage', so maybe bittless non leverage classes are next,but I don't see either as having anything to do with ;traditional dressage
Just thoughts from someone looking in fromt he outside, and perhaps I am miles off base!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

This is what I found on google, so is it correct?

'Now I know the next question from "dressage riders" -- Is it legal to show in?

Yes, if you live in the Netherlands; this country’s people are so sensible, they have legalized bitless riding for all their national level dressage shows. Bravo to the Dutch!

If you live elsewhere, the FEI rules, and most country rules, dictate that bits are required.

I found this articial informative, not having a vested interest in the debate of bittless dressage, and offers both sides view

http://dressagetoday.com/article/bitless-bridle-debate-28386


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

There are no hackmores that are legal in Dressage at any level. If an organization wants to introduce bitless dressage they can go ahead, but people better not be expect to be able to cross over into traditional dressage. None of your scores or points would count, no earning medals, no qualifiers, because it's not real Dressage then.

I do agree that a lot of people who push for bitless do so because they don't know how to use a bit, and likely are better off without on at that point. I leased a horse a while ago that I had to ride bitless because I ****ed him off with my hands. He needed very quiet hands and I couldn't give him that.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Countries can (re. dressage) opt for their own rules for competitions that are run within their own country but if the riders that are competing there 'bitless' want to compete under FEI rules even in their own country they have to use a bit and since in Europe most competitive riders of a certain level travel outside of their own small countries having a dressage horse that will only ride bitless isn't going to be able to do that.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

What I found interesting about the bitless horse doing dressage was how nice and wet his mouth was.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

When we changed K from a bit into a Stubben mechanical hackamore she also developed a 'wet mouth'


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

So, what is a wet mouth,opposed to a mouth that is closed and quiet, no cavasson required?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I know this a is western, and it is an amateur class in western riding, but, wearing a bit, can have just as happy a mouth, as any bittless devise,
This is a western riding class, with lead changes, done on a loose rein, with the mouth of the horse quite, closed and relaxed
Don;t blame the bit, , blame the hands on the reins, for any negative association with bits. If a horse is performing those changes, on a loose rein, whether a hackmore or a bridle is on that head, makes no difference, JMO The horse will have a'happy mouth'


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

A wet mouth in a horse that's ridden in a dressage type contact should also be a quiet, closed mouth
If the mouth is wet because the horse is chomping on the bit and doing its best to avoid the contact or free up its tongue then it isn't the 'right sort of wet mouth'. 
You often see that excessive saliva/foaming in horses that have been ridden btv for a prolonged length of time because it over stimulates the salivary glands 
In 'contact' riding you expect to see a horse that's comfortable and accepting of the contact relaxed and gently 'mouthing' the bit and if they're doing that they're stimulating the salivary glands just enough to have a wet mouth


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yes, I agree correct contact, along with a good metal choice, creates a wet mouth, but to me,that is not seen by any obvious 'wettness', outside of the mouth, but by a quiet closed mouth , which indicates to me a happy, thus moist mouth.
I just did not see where any picture, would show a 'wet' mouth, but rather a happy and relaxed mouth, thus, not a horse with a foamy mouth, working the bit JMO
Just a different way of saying the same thing, as I looked and looked at video of the bittless dressage horse, to see the 'wet mouth', and did not see any rewarded wettnes, visible on the outside, thus, it must be just another way of saying a horse is working with a quite , relaxed and closed mouth,
on his own, no cavasson, thus assumed his mouth is therefore happy and moist.
That should always be the case, JMO, with a horse ridden not just bittless, but with a bit also.


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