# Blue eye?



## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Im not too sure how often it is passed on.
My aunt bred Paint horses for years & they had one APHA mare who had only one blue eye that was bred to a paint with no blue eyes & the resulting foal had 2 blue eyes.
On the flip side, however, there were 4 other mares with either one blue eye or both who never threw a foal with blue eyes.

I think your best bet would be to breed to mares with blue eyes to the blue eyed stud. This way you may have a better chance of getting what you want 

Just out of curiosity, do you have pics of the 2 horses?


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## down2earth1928 (Dec 14, 2010)

yea the eye color may come more from the mare.Im not sure.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Eye colour in horses doesn't appear to be separate genes. It's related to the colour, blue eyes are usually caused by frame or splash white, or double dilutes. If your boys are both paints, they need to be tested for a few things before you consider what they can possibly pass on to their offspring. First off they need to be tested for LWO which is the frame gene. A foal with two frame genes is a baby that is going to die a few days after birth, so it is important to know if the stallion carries it. You also need to test for HYPP and HERDA which are both pretty horrible disorders. 

What bloodlines do your stallions have? What are their accomplishments? What is their conformation like? These are the first things you should ask yourself before deciding to keep or cut each one. Colour should always be a bonus when breeding, not the sole object. The primary object should be to produce offspring better than the parents.


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## down2earth1928 (Dec 14, 2010)

well,they are 8 months old.Both the dams and sire are great looking horses.As far as acomplishments,We raise trail horses.I agree with wanting a good bloodline but on another hand i bought a horse with easyjet on the sire side and it was the craziest horse I ever seen.Since then I prefer to go by the temperment of the parents.Around here people want good trail horses that are bomb proof.Both studs are going to produce this but if I can have a plus of getting blue eyes I would like to do so.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Breeding does NOT produce a horses temperament. Certain lines may be linked to a predisposition to have a calmer attitude but even that is debatable. Temperament is produced by good training. Sure, people around there might want good trail horses. But good trail horses are a dime a dozen, and while you can't ride papers, they are still important. Technically your horses aren't even 'Paint' without papers, they are just pinto grades.


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## down2earth1928 (Dec 14, 2010)

There must have been a misunderstanding.All of my horses are APHA or AQHA.I wasnt saying papers and bloodline doesnt matter to me.I was just saying that just because the bloodline has a famous horse in it doesnt mean your going to get a great horse.I raise APHA trail horses and have found if poth parents have a good temperment it does help,some because the dam lets you have more hands on with the colt early which I find makes a better horse when grown.I have owned a few unregistered horses in the past that were great horses and i have owned a few registered horses is the past that wasnt worth $50.00.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh sorry. Went off a bit half cocked there. If both colts are of equal quality, and are both worthy of being kept whole, then sure, go for the colour. Just make sure you test him for frame first, because blue eyes can be caused by frame. 

Also, don't get me wrong. I have no problem with unregistered horses. They are pretty awesome. I just have a problem with people breeding from grades.


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## down2earth1928 (Dec 14, 2010)

I agree,I know they need to be checked first.Just dont know much on blue eyes.Mainly trying to find out if normaly the blue eyes pass from the stud.I believe its just something that some have because neither his dam or sire has blue eyes.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Just like with any color pattern, whether the blue eye is passed to foals is a crap shoot. Blue eyes are from white patterns (i.e. splash, frame and others).


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## HorsesMakeLifeBetter (Jan 22, 2011)

I don't know for sure, but are blue eyes in horses similar to people as far as it being a recessive gene, so both horses would have to have a blue eye recessive gene inorder for a foal to have a chance of having a blue eye?


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## down2earth1928 (Dec 14, 2010)

It seems that way to me also.I thought there may be someone on here with a blue eyed stud that cauld give me some info based on their past experience.I like getting everyones views and experiences because I want all the info I can get before making any decisions.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

For both the following quotes -

Horse eye color is nothing like human eye color in regards to blue/brown being recessive/dominant. It is affected the the color pattern genes that the horse carries.

There is no way to guarantee that a horses will or wont pass on blue eyes(s). Like I stated before, as when breeding for anything breeding related it is a crap shoot. There is no way to predict what foals, if any, out of either colt will or wont have blue eyes.

The only want to guarantee you get a color/pattern/eye color you want to to buy a horse with that color/pattern/eye color.



HorsesMakeLifeBetter said:


> I don't know for sure, but are blue eyes in horses similar to people as far as it being a recessive gene, so both horses would have to have a blue eye recessive gene inorder for a foal to have a chance of having a blue eye?





down2earth1928 said:


> It seems that way to me also.I thought there may be someone on here with a blue eyed stud that cauld give me some info based on their past experience.I like getting everyones views and experiences because I want all the info I can get before making any decisions.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

The absolute only way to help increase your chances of blue eyes is by breeding stock known to have the splash pattern. As of this point, they are unsure if frame definitively causes blue eyes as you cannot test for splash yet and so although a horse may test positive for frame, they may also be hiding splash.

Ensure you are testing ANY colored breeding stock for frame - even solids descended from pinto coloring. Frame can pop up anywhere, and you may never see it so always test horses you CAN have frame even if they're solid. For example, frame does not come in Arabs so I would not have to test my Arab for it. However, my Paint filly would have to be tested because although she's almost positively splash and tobiano with no apparent frame in her bloodlines, I would never take the chance unless breeding her to a stud I KNEW didn't have frame.

My filly has a partial blue eye and neither of her parents had blue eyes. Her half sister has two crystal blue eyes and neither parent had blue eyes. Blue eyes are a TOTAL crapshoot - they are caused almost exclusively by the splash gene, so breeding splash patterns together is the only way to increase your chance but with absolutely no definitive results. We've all seen two of the loudest splashiest horses we know produce a totally solid baby, so it's impossible to determine.

At the end of the day, blue eyes are fun but should be the LAST thing on your mind. It's fine if both colts are stud quality, but I have seen SO many people make excuses for their stock JUST because of "pretty blue eyes" so make sure you're truly looking at them because if both colts have the splash gene, the non blue eyed colt could be JUST as likely, or even MORE likely to sire blue eyes as the blue eyed colt. Having blue eyes themselves means absolutely nothing.


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## down2earth1928 (Dec 14, 2010)

thanks alot for that info.I am thankful for all I get.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

I had an Appaloosa mare with 2 partial blue eyes (most likely from the splash gene) and she would occasionally pass the blue eyes or partial blue eyes to her offspring. 









She was never bred to a stallion who (to our knowledge) had splash.

Splash can occur in either stallions or mares or both-- it is not a sex linked trait. So a stallion with blue eyes due to splash could pass them on regardless of the mare having splash or not. If both parents have splash, the incidence of the foal having splash and blue eyes would increase. Other than figuring simple Punnet square type inheritance, There is really no telling how often the blue eyes will occur-- even if the other parent did not have the splash gene, they might have modifier genes which could either enhance or supress the expression of splash/blue eyes. 

None of these genes are testable.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Add into the mix that not all horses with splash even have blue eyes, and you just have to laugh at how complicated it all gets lol.


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## BackInTheSaddleAgain (Apr 20, 2009)

It's really common with sabinos, at least.


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

Sabino (or, at least, Sb1, which is the only Sabino gene that we have tests for, & is what most people are referring to when they say a horse is Sabino) does not cause blue eyes.


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## down2earth1928 (Dec 14, 2010)

I agree with how complicated it is.lol


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## BackInTheSaddleAgain (Apr 20, 2009)

You know, you're right. Gah. Every single thing I've read about sabino horses up until now talked about blue eye as being a characteristic. Today I Google "sabino blue eyes" and everything says it is NOT. Genetics make my head hurt.


Quixotic said:


> Sabino (or, at least, Sb1, which is the only Sabino gene that we have tests for, & is what most people are referring to when they say a horse is Sabino) does not cause blue eyes.


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## twogeldings (Aug 11, 2008)

BackInTheSaddleAgain said:


> You know, you're right. Gah. Every single thing I've read about sabino horses up until now talked about blue eye as being a characteristic. Today I Google "sabino blue eyes" and everything says it is NOT. Genetics make my head hurt.


You get used to after a while :lol:

It would be interesting to find out if Frame is really the cause of blue eyes or not. Up until now, I was under the impression the Frame and Splash are blue-eye makers.


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

I can't wait until they figure out how to test for Splash. I think it'd answer a lot of questions about the blue-eye mystery, if we could test Frame horses with blue eyes to see if they were also Splash as well.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I think that there is something more going on. Why don't every frame or splash have blue eyes? Something else must be involved.


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## twogeldings (Aug 11, 2008)

Chiilaa said:


> I think that there is something more going on. Why don't every frame or splash have blue eyes? Something else must be involved.


It's the same with Vienna rabbits. Not every Vienna (Heterozygous for Blue Eyed White, which is Homozygous) has blue, or partial blue eyes. Some have brown eyes and Vienna markings. Others (like my breeding stock) have full blue or partial blue eyes and white markings. Sometimes the brown just overpowers the blue, the blue _hides under the brown_ (I had one buck like this, his eyes where 'marbled') or the blue eyed gene just didn't 'click' at all, even if the horse carries it.


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