# Allways wear breatplates on xc!!!



## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

They are must haves!!!!! RIDE AT ALL LEVELS WITH ONE WHEN EVENTING!!!


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## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

I've heard this from other places too, why is it necessary?


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i dont understand the purpose of your post, it doesnt give a reason... i also disagree


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## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> i dont understand the purpose of your post, it doesnt give a reason... i also disagree


Yeah, I figure if your saddle fits properly and your girth is adjusted correctly, you wouldn't need one on most horses..
but I have heard that you should always have one.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

drafteventer said:


> Yeah, I figure if your saddle fits properly and your girth is adjusted correctly, you wouldn't need one on most horses..
> but I have heard that you should always have one.


but if you dont need one, why use one ? i would say for the upper levels you should have one but not for the lower levels. i have evented a lot and only used one on one horse and that was only for the running martingale that was attached to it.


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## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> but if you dont need one, why use one ? i would say for the upper levels you should have one but not for the lower levels. i have evented a lot and only used one on one horse and that was only for the running martingale that was attached to it.


I was agreeing with you, I was just saying that I've heard this opinion before. I don't think you should ever have unnecessary tack, it's just a waste of money. I've never used one on my horse or on any horse really, my mother uses one on her horse because his saddle slips back constantly.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> but if you dont need one, why use one ? i would say for the upper levels you should have one but not for the lower levels. i have evented a lot and only used one on one horse and that was only for the running martingale that was attached to it.


I agree. My Coach whom competes Prelim states that the only reason why you would need one is when you are doing bigger fences, where your saddle could slip back due to the angles your horse takes to take the fence.

Unless of course, your saddle slips back as it is.

I agree Gypsie - what is the point of the thread? And I too, disagree.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

im not totally against breastplates though, my gelding kid wears one for flatwork ! i dont have a saddle that fits him well and hes very slab-sidded. with out it he shakes and the saddle moves back a couple inches....eek !

drafteventer, i wasnt arguing with you, just the point 'you must have a breastplate' =]


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## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> im not totally against breastplates though, my gelding kid wears one for flatwork ! i dont have a saddle that fits him well and hes very slab-sidded. with out it he shakes and the saddle moves back a couple inches....eek !
> 
> drafteventer, i wasnt arguing with you, just the point 'you must have a breastplate' =]


Oh okay  I'm super tired haha sorry!


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

I DISAGREE alot of horses and riders dont need or use them at all and it doesnt change anything. thats like saying every has to use a crupper cause saddles fall forward. Not all saddles fall back!


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

Is it good to use a breastplate on xc? Sure, can't hurt. Extra security and an "oh Sh*t!" strap if you have a wither strap. 

But, is it necessary? Nope. Like the other posters said - if your saddle fits and the girth is adjusted properly, the saddle won't go anywhere. Especially at the lower levels.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Is it true that a breastplate will not only prevent a saddle from sliding back, but also from rolling to one side? Could this be why the poster is so adamant about their importance?


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Another must have for xc is tape over your boots... ALWAYS tape them on hahaha, I know a lady who was competing and she didn't tape her boots on and one actually come off.. How, I don't have a clue, but it did.
(I always wondered why I see pictures of xc riders with tape at the top of their boots... now I know why :L )


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i used to have cheap boots that came off on xc ! now i have woof boots with double velcro and no problems !


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

HollyBubbles said:


> Another must have for xc is tape over your boots... ALWAYS tape them on hahaha, I know a lady who was competing and she didn't tape her boots on and one actually come off.. How, I don't have a clue, but it did.
> (I always wondered why I see pictures of xc riders with tape at the top of their boots... now I know why :L )


Not true, depending on the quality of your boot, and the level you are doing *meaning, how much water are you going through and how many "extreme" obsticles are you going over* 

As Gypsie said, I have the Woof Boots. I have yet to have to put tape on mine. I also have SMB's and again, never had to put tape on them.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

gypsygirl said:


> but if you dont need one, why use one ? i would say for the upper levels you should have one but not for the lower levels.


I agree. It's nice to have I think, but not a must.

OP, could you please give more insights to us?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I've never used one. Then again my saddles actualy fit my horses so they don't move forwards, sideways or backwards ever, Infact if you sat on one without a girth it would probably stay there! I've been hunting without a breastplate and seen a horrific injury caused by a breastplate that was adjusted too loose and a lady got her leg caught in it when she fell off.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Theres alot of things big eventers use that we dont need! Im sure there like cover magazine models, lol they are wearing **** to make it look like we need it so people will buy it, just like models do. haha i only use a breastplate sometimes, some horses need it some dont. if i had a horse who had no girth, straight back and no wither then YES i would use it ALWAYS. But my horse is a TB big wither, deep girth... and so i dont need to use it all the time.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

agree with MIE re: taping boots - and the hunter paces i do are FAR more extreme than anything i see XC and BN and N! (30 - 40 fences, all solid obstacles on courses ranging from 8 - 15 miles through multiple full moving water crossings - as in knee deep streams - and jumps up to almost 4').

i use a 5pt breastcollar for that haha.
for eventing i use a breastcollar but that's only bc my clyde cross is HUGE 

smaller stuff certainly doesn't warrant it imo.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Disagree here as well...I have never had one on Sandie, don't need one. Saddle stays in place fine. Some horses depending on their shape probably need one, but mine does not.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

I seem to find that "ALWAYS do this" and "NEVER do that" statements are rarely true statements. To each his own and all horses/situations are different. Anyone else find that to be the case?


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> I seem to find that "ALWAYS do this" and "NEVER do that" statements are rarely true statements. To each his own and all horses/situations are different. Anyone else find that to be the case?


i couldn't agree with you more. each horse/rider/situation is unique and should be treated as such.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

I see i have gotten many negitive comments from this. This breastplate IS necicary on XC. I have seen many people riding low levels that have ended up in serious accidents. At BN and N i have jumped out of water, on/off banks, and down VERY steep hills. so nobody can tell me it is not necisary. One of my good friends was on a trailride (with out a breastplate) and the saddle sliped, she did an emergency dismount, got her hands caught in the rein and had her face crushed in by the horse's hoof. It broke all of the bones in the lower part of her face and knocked allmost all of her braces covered teeth. the next day she would have gotted the braces off. she came millimeters from death that day. luckily enough the horse was a good old calm school horse. imagine riding one of the hotblooded event horses that some of us are lucky enough to put up with. anyway getting off subject. anything can happen. NEVER SAY IT WONT HAPPEN TO ME.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Your saddle has to be a fairly poor fit to be moving that much. 

A breast plate is not nessecary XC at the lower levels.

I can see why one would be needed at the higher levels.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> I see i have gotten many negitive comments from this. This breastplate IS necicary on XC. I have seen many people riding low levels that have ended up in serious accidents. At BN and N i have jumped out of water, on/off banks, and down VERY steep hills. so nobody can tell me it is not necisary. One of my good friends was on a trailride (with out a breastplate) and the saddle sliped, she did an emergency dismount, got her hands caught in the rein and had her face crushed in by the horse's hoof. It broke all of the bones in the lower part of her face and knocked allmost all of her braces covered teeth. the next day she would have gotted the braces off. she came millimeters from death that day. luckily enough the horse was a good old calm school horse. imagine riding one of the hotblooded event horses that some of us are lucky enough to put up with. anyway getting off subject. anything can happen. NEVER SAY IT WONT HAPPEN TO ME.


_I am not sure how a saddle slipping on a trail ride relates to eventing...but sure._

_A saddle is more likely to slip because the girth wasn't tight to begin with, and then as the horse was moving, loosened up even more to the point that the saddle was able to slip._

_Also...she got her hands caught in the reins, which is really unlucky, which made her fall more serious then it should have been. Not sure how she managed that though...._


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

faye said:


> Your saddle has to be a fairly poor fit to be moving that much.
> 
> A breast plate is not nessecary XC at the lower levels.
> 
> I can see why one would be needed at the higher levels.


 back on to the subject of banks and steep hills at the lower levels just like higher ones.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

a 1-2ft bank is different than a 3.5-4ft bank. 

thats horrible about your friend, what an unlucky accident.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

gypsygirl said:


> a 1-2ft bank is different than a 3.5-4ft bank.
> 
> thats horrible about your friend, what an unlucky accident.


at chatt hills i jumped off a BN bank that was about 3ft. BN-T jumped that drop.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> at chatt hills i jumped off a BN bank that was about 3ft. BN-T jumped that drop.


BN max height is 2'7".
N is up to 2'11".
T is 3'3"

while banks often read higher than they are, for it to be a BN jump or drop it should have been no more than 2'7".

sort of how a 2'7" fence jumped uphill reads more like 3' while downhill may read closer to 2'3" or so. angles/drops/approach all make an impact on what size the fence reads (how it looks compared to actual size and how you and your horse have to take it) as opposed to the actual height of the fence from the ground at the base of the fence.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

CJ82Sky said:


> BN max height is 2'7".
> N is up to 2'11".
> T is 3'3"
> 
> ...


hights for drops vary. plus training was jumping it too.


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## Fluffy Pony (May 2, 2010)

If your a good enough rider. Then you dont even need a girth let alone breast collar for your saddle. You shouldnt be relying on your saddle to ride your horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

VelvetsAB said:


> _I am not sure how a saddle slipping on a trail ride relates to eventing...but sure._
> 
> _A saddle is more likely to slip because the girth wasn't tight to begin with, and then as the horse was moving, loosened up even more to the point that the saddle was able to slip._
> 
> _Also...she got her hands caught in the reins, which is really unlucky, which made her fall more serious then it should have been. Not sure how she managed that though...._


I am with you on that one Velvet. I'm sitting here going 'Hmmmmmm"

HITS - you are very correct 

And there is no way that you did a drop that is 3'0" at BN.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Fluffy Pony said:


> If your a good enough rider. Then you dont even need a girth let alone breast collar for your saddle. You shouldnt be relying on your saddle to ride your horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well said Fluffy! Look at Phillip Dutton - he lost a leather in the middle of his course at Rolex. And he completed the rest, with just 1 leather. That's impressive


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> hights for drops vary. plus training was jumping it too.


So? what does that have to do with anything. T could of been riding the same drop, but that drop could of been very low for their course. I see 2 levels jumping the same fence on a regular basis at HT's. Doesn't mean anything. That fence could be a cakewalk, yawn and easy peasy for one level.

And what does that have to do with anything anyway???

If you are Eventing - you should be pretty darn tootin' solid in your tack as it is, without having to rely on breastplates. If riders are having accidents, that's rider error, not tack error. And if they are dumb enough to get on course with poor fitting tack...well, that's their fault. No piece of tack is going to be a riders savior - and as Fluffy said...if it is, then there's something wrong with the picture.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Can't say I agree OP. I've done 10+ mile hunter pace hauling butt all the way. Saddle never slips. Go sheepskin saddle pad!


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## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> If you are Eventing - you should be pretty darn tootin' solid in your tack as it is, without having to rely on breastplates. If riders are having accidents, that's rider error, not tack error. And if they are dumb enough to get on course with poor fitting tack...well, that's their fault. No piece of tack is going to be a riders savior - and as Fluffy said...if it is, then there's something wrong with the picture.


Agreed.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

My wide (and round) as a barrel connemara was suicidal XC, he would go at any jump, at any speed and on any stride. It was pretty **** scarey as his brakes very often failed XC (hence why he didnt go XC very often, took alot of liquid courage to get me to do it), I've done some pretty hairy drops in a show saddle with no breastplate (a show saddle being very straight cut like a dressage saddle but with noknee rolls at all) saddle never moved an inch!
Heck Popping logs out on hacks and dropping down banks from one path to anouther is very often greater then 2ft 7 and the saddle never moved an inch.

Mark todd also lost a stirrup XC, it snapped at the 2nd fence at Badminton one year and he carried on without it! infact the uneven ness created ment that he kicked off his other stirrup and popped it over the horses neck. So essentialy he did an entire 4* course with no stirrups! brave man who was obviously secure in his seat!


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

faye said:


> Mark todd also lost a stirrup XC, it snapped at the 2nd fence at Badminton one year and he carried on without it! infact the uneven ness created ment that he kicked off his other stirrup and popped it over the horses neck. So essentialy he did an entire 4* course with no stirrups! brave man who was obviously secure in his seat!


Ahhh I remember this, good old kiwi he is to .
-That's one reason I ride stirrupless on purpose with bubbles, because her canter and trot would be impossible to sit to without practice (for me anyway :lol: but I'm structurally unbalanced so hey)


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## Fluffy Pony (May 2, 2010)

There is a video floating around of a clinic where the demonstrator takes off the cinch and proceeds to do a sliding stop (it was a reining clinic) without it. Can't find it through.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Fluffy Pony said:


> *If your a good enough rider. Then you dont even need a girth *let alone breast collar for your saddle. You shouldnt be relying on your saddle to ride your horse.


I'd love to see the video of the good rider without the girth in moment when horse spooks badly, bolts, bucks or rears.....


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i dont agree with riding with no girth, i think thats dangerous, i will stick with no stirrups or bareback !


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> hights for drops vary. plus training was jumping it too.


officially on shared jumps the height of the drop can not exceed the maximum height for the lowest level competing over that jump.

i.e. if BN, N and T are sharing a jump, the max height of the obstacle is 2'7". higher levels can jump lower than the max, but lower levels can't EXCEED their max height which for BN is 2'7".

from the rulebook:
The height of an obstacle is measured from the point where the average horse
would take off. The spread of an open obstacle (e.g. Oxer or Ditch) is measured from the outside of the rails or other material making up the obstacle. The spread of a closed obstacle with a solid top (e.g. Tables) is measured from the highest point to the highest point.

The drop on the landing side of an obstacle is measured from the highest part of the obstacle to the spot where the average horse would land.

Appendix 2 (pg. 66) has the chart for max allowed heights by division which for BM is indeed 2'7" solid obstacles (such as a drop) and max of 3" for brush where the solid part is no more than 2'7".


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

CJ82Sky said:


> officially on shared jumps the height of the drop can not exceed the maximum height for the lowest level competing over that jump.
> 
> i.e. if BN, N and T are sharing a jump, the max height of the obstacle is 2'7". higher levels can jump lower than the max, but lower levels can't EXCEED their max height which for BN is 2'7".
> 
> ...


EXACTLY! Great post, thanks for sharing that and taking the effort!


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## Fluffy Pony (May 2, 2010)

The riding without a girth thing... yes it its dangerous.. But at least if you fall off the saddle comes with you and you arn't caught hung up on your horse with it ;-).

It just goes to show that you as a rider affect how you saddle moves around on your horse's back. 

You need to be resonsible how you are moving with your horse on your horse's back. I think sometimes 'saddle fit' comes into play with a lot of cases that can simply be fixed because of just how the rider 'rides' his or her horse. Just because hes sore on his back dosen't all mean its time to blame the saddle. It might be a case to blame the rider for bouncing around all horribly on a horse that is not physical ready to brace for such a rider.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I don't disagree. But even if you have a properly fitted saddle, I think you should still have one as a safety mechanism. 

Plus, my horse is trained to half halt and lift her off her forehand from a tug on the breastcollar


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

no one is saying breastcollars are bad - i said i hunter pace with a 5pt one (well i will i just got it bc my old one gave out) and it will prevent saddle shifting in extreme terrain (up and down steep hills over 8 - 15 mile long pace courses sometimes with jumps on the hills themselves). however it's an added measure, not a required one. not EVERYONE i ride with uses one, and my saddle usually doesn't slip but when my horse sweats a lot it might so id rather be safe than sorry.

HOWEVER saying you ALWAYS need one is incorrect. as someone else said - always and never are two things that are RARELY true


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

MIEventer said:


> EXACTLY! Great post, thanks for sharing that and taking the effort!


welcome - and since it is measured to the point where the average horse LANDS not to the actual base of the fence like in jumpers, that means the drop was more than likely a 2'3" - 2'6" height from the BASE unless the ground had either NO downhill slope where the horse would land or was actually slightly uphill.

either way it didn't exceed 2'7" from top of fence to point of landing in order to be on a BN course.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

eventerdrew said:


> Plus, my horse is trained to half halt and lift her off her forehand from a tug on the breastcollar


why is that/ what is the purpose ?? im just wondering, you can PM if you want.


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

CJ82Sky said:


> HOWEVER saying you ALWAYS need one is incorrect. as someone else said - always and never are two things that are RARELY true


Don't people say the same thing about helmets?

Looks to me the OP is saying they're an added safety measure - like wearing a helmet.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I think it was just a stupid thread with no purpose. Its like saying you should always wear a martingale out xc in case your horse throws its head out of excitement.
Or you should use a stronger bit incase your horse pulls.
You use the tack your horse needs at that time and why waste money on sonething that has no need to be on the horse. If your using the breastplate as a quick grab then you should pop on a neckstrap


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

MaggiStar said:


> I think it was just a stupid thread with no purpose. Its like saying you should always wear a martingale out xc in case your horse throws its head out of excitement.
> Or you should use a stronger bit incase your horse pulls.
> You use the tack your horse needs at that time and why waste money on sonething that has no need to be on the horse. If your using the breastplate as a quick grab then you should pop on a neckstrap


 
Good point. Although I think a lot of people _do_ do things like that. 

There's also the difference of the things you listed are training issues, and the BP is for tack issues. If you're going to put on a neckstrap anyway, why not just use a BP?


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## traildancer (Oct 27, 2010)

Okay--different perspective. I trail ride exclusively, usually in fairly rough terrain. I use a breastcollar and a crupper because I use the same saddle on differently built horses.

The main reason I do this is because 15 years ago when I started getting back in to horses (after having children) I bought a cheapo, made-in-India Australian saddle. It was comfortable and the horse seemed ok with it. However, I had never used the English-type buckle-up girth. I couldn't get it tight enough.

We went riding and crossed a creek with steep incline on the other side. The saddle slid back and the horse came over, just missing me. To this day when I think about this, my gut clenches in anticipation of getting landed on. The horse panicked and thrashed down the log-filled creek. We were sure that she would break her leg. Thank the Lord, she didn't. I now wear a breastcollar every time I go out.

By the way, what do all the abbreviations, ie HT, BN, N and T mean? I've not been exposed to this discilpline.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

traildancer said:


> By the way, what do all the abbreviations, ie HT, BN, N and T mean? I've not been exposed to this discilpline.


HT = Horse Trial (Eventing competition)
BN = Beginner Novice (a level in Eventing)
N = Novice (a level in Eventing)
T = Training (a level in Eventing)


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

HT = horse trials
BN = beginner novice level eventing
N = novice level eventing
T = training level eventing


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

oh yes and we must not forget...

S = Starter, a little "mini trial" division just below BN for whimps like me and Sandie  hehe


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> oh yes and we must not forget...
> 
> S = Starter, a little "mini trial" division just below BN for whimps like me and Sandie  hehe


my one show has PS = prestarter. it's awesome. literally wooden x-cavaletti (the mini-raised ones) with flowers and stuff to get the horses used to jumping in a field. soooo cool of them!


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> I'd love to see the video of the good rider without the girth in moment when horse spooks badly, bolts, bucks or rears.....


 My point exactly... not all horses are well behaved angels.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

Fluffy Pony said:


> The riding without a girth thing... yes it its dangerous.. But at least if you fall off the saddle comes with you and you arn't caught hung up on your horse with it ;-).
> 
> It just goes to show that you as a rider affect how you saddle moves around on your horse's back.
> 
> You need to be resonsible how you are moving with your horse on your horse's back. I think sometimes 'saddle fit' comes into play with a lot of cases that can simply be fixed because of just how the rider 'rides' his or her horse. Just because hes sore on his back dosen't all mean its time to blame the saddle. It might be a case to blame the rider for bouncing around all horribly on a horse that is not physical ready to brace for such a rider.


riding w/o a girth- if you fell off then there is a high chance the saddle and leathers would get in your way if you had to get out from under your horse who might be freaking out at this point.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

I don't think it is at all a "need" to use a breastplate.

However, I like to because I think it completes the look. :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

traildancer said:


> Okay--different perspective. I trail ride exclusively, usually in fairly rough terrain. I use a breastcollar and a crupper because I use the same saddle on differently built horses.
> 
> The main reason I do this is because 15 years ago when I started getting back in to horses (after having children) I bought a cheapo, made-in-India Australian saddle. It was comfortable and the horse seemed ok with it. However, I had never used the English-type buckle-up girth. I couldn't get it tight enough.
> 
> ...


that is not a different perspective, but the same point. your saddle doesnt fit so you have a good reason for using a breastplate.


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## traildancer (Oct 27, 2010)

Thank for clearing up the abbreviations.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Is a breastplate necessary? No, but it's nice to have. For lack of funds I don't ride with one now, but my saddle fits Excel well and until we really get competetive with eventing, I don't think we need one.

As for the boots, some boots are cheap and would need tape, like my galloping boots. My Pro Choice SMB Elites are very secure with 4-ish pieces of velcro to a boot, they're not comin' off anytime soon ;-)


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> why is that/ what is the purpose ?? im just wondering, you can PM if you want.


No it's a good question! one that I asked my current trainer when she told me that idea in the first place.

Basically, it's a safety thing as well as a training mechanism. By tugging on my breastcollar, my horse sits back on her haunches and slows her pace. This comes in handy on both XC and in the show jumping arena. If you tug hard enough and say "whoa", she will stop dead on. If you keep pulling, she backs up. She has become quite sensitive to it and it's been a great training tool for a horse like her, who is very forehand dependent. 

This also gets the horse off your hands if you have a horse like mine. Plus, if your reins break, you'll have a way to stop your horse (if they are sensitive enough to it). My mare has a very sensitive mouth. Sometimes, she does not respond well to the use of the reins as an effective aid. So, I start using the breastcollar. I can also use it while teaching and performing lateral work as a "braking" mechanism for either side of her shoulder.

It comes in handy, I swear I'm not crazy!


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

I think the "no girth" thing was an exaggeration of the fact there is no equipment that we should become reliant on when it comes to riding properly. I don't think the poster was actually suggesting you guys go run XC courses without a girth.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

^ people do ride with out a girth, my old trainer used to make people. not on xc but jumping.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

eventerdrew said:


> No it's a good question! one that I asked my current trainer when she told me that idea in the first place.
> 
> Basically, it's a safety thing as well as a training mechanism. By tugging on my breastcollar, my horse sits back on her haunches and slows her pace. This comes in handy on both XC and in the show jumping arena. If you tug hard enough and say "whoa", she will stop dead on. If you keep pulling, she backs up. She has become quite sensitive to it and it's been a great training tool for a horse like her, who is very forehand dependent.
> 
> ...


I am going to be completely honest - I have never, never, never, ever, in my wildest dreams and throughout all my years of eventing and riding - heard of using a breastplate as a "training" tool.

I have never heard any clinitian that I've worked with state this, nor any coach that I've ridden with. Never heard this throughout Pony Club and etc, etc, etc.....this is, honestly, the first time I have ever heard of someone using their breastplate, as a training tool to get their horse off of their front end, and to make their horse stop.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

^ I know this. But it works.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Yeah no, I think the statement you NEED one is a little ridiculous. There should be absolutely no reason that your saddle is slipping, regardless of the bank, IF you're a well balanced rider. If your saddle is slipping back because you've jumped up a 3'0" bank, it either doesn't fit or you need to get OFF your horses back and stop depending on your feet. If your saddle is slipping coming off a 3'0" drop, I fail to understand ENTIRELY how a breastplate is going to help you. :-|

I had a nitty gritty moment a few years back, riding Western. It was my bad, I didn't check my tack properly, and I have NO idea how this happened, but in mid gallop, my cinch actually came undone on the buckle side. I was pulling my horse up, and alarmed to discover I was only getting CLOSER to her head. I somehow managed to get her stopped without ever losing my balance, I just had a saddle that was part way up her neck. :lol: I was picking up pieces from my saddle for a good quarter mile.

Two things I learned that day - ALWAYS check your tack, and learning to ride without a girth is NEVER a bad thing.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

eventerdrew said:


> ^ I know this. But it works.


Hmmm. Intreaguing! I am going to have to give this a try tomorrow when I ride.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

When you are first teaching a horse to respond to the breastcollar, start at the walk. Go down the long side and do walk/halt transitions using only the breastcollar. Once they stop, make them back a few steps. Then walk forward!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I will give this a try!


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

gypsygirl said:


> ^ people do ride with out a girth, my old trainer used to make people. not on xc but jumping.


 that was very dangerous and irresponsible of that trainer! the saddle could have slipped off the back of the horse over a jump.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> Well said Fluffy! Look at Phillip Dutton - he lost a leather in the middle of his course at Rolex. And he completed the rest, with just 1 leather. That's impressive


 allright no stirups is a completely different thing than what we are talking about.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Okay, I don't do cross country, but I just HAD to chime in.

A breast collar is like a seat belt. It's not there for when everything goes right. It's not there to keep a sloppy rider or ill fitting saddle in place. It's there for when everything goes wrong!

You can be the best rider in the world, and then one day all may go to heck in a hand basket and you have a wreck. The breast collar will keep you and your saddle from rolling under the horse or sliding off the back of the horse.

At the very least, even if you fall clear, it will help keep the horse from going ballistic as the saddle sits under his belly and he bucks it to bits.

One time on You-tube there was a video of a cutting horse and rider, and the rider and saddle slide off to the side and the horse when ballistic and bucked with his saddle. A breast collar will prevent a saddle from rolling completely under the horse and becoming an even worse catastrophe.

It's like saying you don't need to wear a seat belt because you are a good driver. Well, even the best of drivers can get into an accident, through no fault of their own, so most of us wear our seat belt. I see using a breast collar as the same thing. 

I had a breast collar save me and/or my saddle twice, and I just trail ride, no major jumps or drops involved. But the horse spooked in once instance and my saddle went over, and in the other instance, I was letting him canter up a hill and I swerved to miss a branch. The saddle went over then too. I rode on his side like a trick rider for a while before I made the decision to drop off. What if I can completely rolled under!? I certainly would have without the breast collar. It was pulled so tight when I went to re-saddle him, that I could hardly get it off. It was supporting all my weight and the saddle on the side of the horse. 

And besides, I think they look classy. :lol:


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

CJ82Sky said:


> BN max height is 2'7".
> N is up to 2'11".
> T is 3'3"
> 
> ...


sorry to bring this early peice of the coversation back up BUT i looked in the rule book and you are corrct in saying that the max height is 2'7" HOVEVER the max drop for BN is infact 3'3". look it up im not lying


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> One time on You-tube there was a video of a cutting horse and rider, and the rider and saddle slide off to the side and the horse when ballistic and bucked with his saddle. A breast collar will prevent a saddle from rolling completely under the horse and becoming an even worse catastrophe.


I do believe this is the video you're referring to:


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

eventerdrew said:


> When you are first teaching a horse to respond to the breastcollar, start at the walk. Go down the long side and do walk/halt transitions using only the breastcollar. Once they stop, make them back a few steps. Then walk forward!


sounds very cool and interesting and something that could come in handy if your reins break or something like that


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> sorry to bring this early peice of the coversation back up BUT i looked in the rule book and you are corrct in saying that the max height is 2'7" HOVEVER the max drop for BN is infact 3'3". look it up im not lying


what page did you find that on of the rule book?


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Teaching a horse to stop with a breastcollar shouldn't be too hard - think about it, most horses will back up if you push on their chests. Most horses. lol


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> sorry to bring this early peice of the coversation back up BUT i looked in the rule book and you are corrct in saying that the max height is 2'7" HOVEVER the max drop for BN is infact 3'3". look it up im not lying


actually drops are not included as a regular obstacle until Novice. Rule book appendix 1 page 65:
1. Beginner Novice: The Beginner Novice level is designed to introduce green horses and riders to Horse Trials, combining dressage, cross-country and Beginner jumping tests. It is designed for competitors and horses that have already had experience schooling competitions in all three disciplines. The entire experience should be safe, inviting and educational to build confidence and a desire to progress. Competitors should be prepared to do a walk, trot and canter dressage test with 20-meter figures and a halt. The cross-country should include a variety of introductory obstacles, including a bank-up, a shallow natural ditch, an inviting water crossing and a brush. Obstacles must 
have a minimum of two strides between two numbered obstacles. Such combinations of straight forward efforts are the only obstacles composed of several elements that are permitted. The jumping course should be inviting and straightforward and may include one double of two strides.

2. Novice: The Novice Level is a continuing introduction to Horse Trials. It is designed for competitors and horses with some experience at lower levels or for experienced riders and horses new to the sport. The dressage will not differ greatly from Beginner Novice. The cross-country will invite bold, 
forward movement involving galloping in balance and jumping out of stride. _*The obstacles will be more substantial and may include a drop, a double, and a simple obstacle out of water.*_ At such water obstacles, the exit shall not be revetted. The jumping course shall include a double and a variety of straight and spread fences, which may include a triple bar.

Rule book page 48:
6. Within the limits shown in Appendix 2, at least one third of the obstacles shall be of maximum height, except for Beginner Novice and Novice Levels where there is no minimum requirements. The top spread of an oxer may be no more then 25cm (10”) wider then the height of the obstacle. The base width of an oxer, or triple bar, may be no more then 50cm (20”) wider then the height of the obstacle

Rule Book Appendix 2 page 68:
Drops of 3'3" measured diagonally (quoted from Rule Book page 44) c. The drop on the landing side of an obstacle is measured from the highest part of the obstacle to the spot where the average horse would land.

mathematically speaking that means the height of the drop is no more than approximately 2'7" as the measurement goes from where the horse's stifle is over the fence in the picture below to where his feet ar about to touch down - a longer distance than from the height to the top of the fence to the base of the drop. hence the allowance for 3'3" = the fence / drop jump itself is not actually 3'3" in height but rather 2'7" (or less) measured from the top of the obstacle diagonally to the touchdown point giving the technical measurement an additional few inches.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Equilove said:


> I do believe this is the video you're referring to:
> 
> YouTube - cutting horse made in italy


Yes, that's the one!


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

CJ82Sky said:


> actually drops are not included as a regular obstacle until Novice. Rule book appendix 1 page 65:
> 1. Beginner Novice: The Beginner Novice level is designed to introduce green horses and riders to Horse Trials, combining dressage, cross-country and Beginner jumping tests. It is designed for competitors and horses that have already had experience schooling competitions in all three disciplines. The entire experience should be safe, inviting and educational to build confidence and a desire to progress. Competitors should be prepared to do a walk, trot and canter dressage test with 20-meter figures and a halt. The cross-country should include a variety of introductory obstacles, including a bank-up, a shallow natural ditch, an inviting water crossing and a brush. Obstacles must
> have a minimum of two strides between two numbered obstacles. Such combinations of straight forward efforts are the only obstacles composed of several elements that are permitted. The jumping course should be inviting and straightforward and may include one double of two strides.
> 
> ...


 go to page 66 of the usea 2011 rulebook


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> go to page 66 of the usea 2011 rulebook


next time please read the entire post i made....

taken EXACTLY from above where i quoted and further explained the rule book.
*Rule Book Appendix 2 page 66:
Drops of 3'3" measured diagonally (quoted from Rule Book page 44) c. The drop on the landing side of an obstacle is measured from the highest part of the obstacle to the spot where the average horse would land.*

_*mathematically speaking that means the height of the drop is no more than approximately 2'7" as the measurement goes from where the horse's stifle is over the fence in the picture below to where his feet ar about to touch down - a longer distance than from the height to the top of the fence to the base of the drop. hence the allowance for 3'3" = the fence / drop jump itself is not actually 3'3" in height but rather 2'7" (or less) measured from the top of the obstacle diagonally to the touchdown point giving the technical measurement an additional few inches.*_


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

CJ82Sky said:


> next time please read the entire post i made....
> 
> taken EXACTLY from above where i quoted and further explained the rule book.
> *Rule Book Appendix 2 page 66:*
> ...


 i know that allready!! i measured it the same way that you are supposed to and the tape measure said 3'ish which is the MAX for BN


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

Why are you being so argumentative? She's just trying to explain something to you...


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

My Beau said:


> Why are you being so argumentative? She's just trying to explain something to you...


 who is this in response to?


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

You. With the "I know that already!!"


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

My Beau said:


> You. With the "I know that already!!"


 what i ment was i was allready aware that that is how drop jumps are measured i dont think she understood that i knew that.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

There are no BN drops that are over 2'7"


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> There are no BN drops that are over 2'7"


 look in the rulebook-they can be.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

So what was the point of this thread? There is no reason to tell people that they always need a breastplate when doing CC - when many of us here, are experienced Eventers and who have been doing this sport for a very long time - who know very well, that you don't.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> So what was the point of this thread? There is no reason to tell people that they always need a breastplate when doing CC - when many of us here, are experienced Eventers and who have been doing this sport for a very long time - who know very well, that you don't.


 the breastplate is a piece of saftey equipment that in many instances can prevent embarrasing and even dangerous misshaps! or do you not care about saftey. its like using a breakaway halter and/or string when tying-anything can happen. or putting bell boots on while traveling.


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

No, the vertical face of the drop will be 2'7" or less. The diagonal measurement can be 3'3".


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

My Beau said:


> No, the vertical face of the drop will be 2'7" or less. The diagonal measurement can be 3'3".


 yeah i was talking about the diagnal measurments.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Hmmm. I think that you should focus on yourself and your riding before you start making threads to other eventers, who are more advanced than you in the sport and more experienced, preaching to them about always having to wear a breastplate.

That would be, like me starting a thread saying "Never lay on your horses neck when going over CC fences"


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> Hmmm. I think that you should focus on yourself and your riding before you start making threads to other eventers, who are more advanced than you in the sport and more experienced, preaching to them about always having to wear a breastplate.
> 
> That would be, like me starting a thread saying "Never lay on your horses neck when going over CC fences"


just because we dont have the money to compete often does not make me less advanced.


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

I always use a breastplate XC.I've always heard you should. I was reading a critique in the USEventing magazine and one of the horses didn't have a breastplate. The critic, can't remember who at the moment, said you should always have a breastplate XC. I understand what you are saying waffles BUT I do somewhat disagree with this. If your doing BN or N and you have a good solid position, a well-fitted saddle, and a tight girth, a breastplate is not neccesary ALL THE TIME. If you saddle is sliding around THAT much around a BN XC course, then you may need to consider your saddle fit. I have gone without a breastplate when schooling XC and never use one when riding at home and have NEVER had my saddle slip. I just use one because. I don't really understand the whole, its like a seatbelt thing. It can keep the saddle from sliding bad and underneath, but this won't happen with a well fitting saddle that is propoerly tightened. I can also think of one instance where a breastplate could be very bad.
Think for a moment, you are galloping cross country and your girth snaps in two. Or the buckle comes undone. Saddle will most likely slide and fall down beside/in front of the horse. Now, with a breastplate, the saddle is attached to the horse for the horse to fall and possibly break a leg over. Becuase until that breastplate comes off, that saddle isn't going to come off. 
So Perhaps you should also say that an OVERGIRTH is 100% Necessary at ALL times while riding cross country. IF you want to get really technical, THAT would be the SAFEST thing to do. 
I am not saying that a breastplate is not a good thing to have and in no way am I saying its bad, I use one on my horse and he is only at BN right now. BUT I do disagree that a breastplate is necessary 100% of the time, on every XC course, at every level, on every horse.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> yeah i was talking about the diagnal measurments.


the HEIGHT can not be more than 2'7" for any BN fence.
the diagonal measurement can be up to 3'3" but that's not the height (which is what you previously said - that the fence was higher than 2'7")


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

CJ82Sky said:


> the HEIGHT can not be more than 2'7" for any BN fence.
> the diagonal measurement can be up to 3'3" but that's not the height (which is what you previously said - that the fence was higher than 2'7")


 never said anything about HEIGHT. and we are not talking about fences-we are talking about obstacles.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

DSC_0376a | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Dont see a breast plate there? thats someone jumping off the Hickstead derby bank! and yes whilst that is going down hill and is showjumping how do you think he got up there? yes thats right they jump it in several steps. There is also a raised road and a devils **** at the hickstead derby


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> never said anything about HEIGHT. and we are not talking about fences-we are talking about obstacles.


you said the jump was much bigger than 2'7" bc people at T were also jumping it. regardless the vertical face (also known as the height) can not be higher than 2'7" in BN. meaning you didn't jump an obstacle greater than 2'7" in equine jumping effort as it relates to height.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Here is a local eventer in my area, a 3* Eventer doing a drop - with no breastplate. Does that make her unsafe? I should tell her when I clinic with her this March 19th.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

faye said:


> DSC_0376a | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> Dont see a breast plate there? thats someone jumping off the Hickstead derby bank! and yes whilst that is going down hill and is showjumping how do you think he got up there? yes thats right they jump it in several steps. There is also a raised road and a devils **** at the hickstead derby


they had to change it in 2005 because it was too dangerous. plus looky here, what do you see? hmmm.... breastplates.
DSC_0340a | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Hickstead derby bank - Bing Images
Hickstead derby bank - Bing Images


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

Another note!! It is a fairly modern concept to use all this "gear" cross country. Many years ago, breastplates weren't really as popular as they are now. Long time ago people did cross country in a saddle and bridle. No "gadgets". And I believe, along with all the media and articles lately that eventing is at its most dangerous right now. We have had far more deaths in this sport in the past 3 years than 30 years ago. A lack of breastplate would be the LEAST of my worry going around an intermediate or advanced level cross country course today.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Waffles, why are you trying to tell experienced eventers what to do with their horses?


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

equineeventer3390 said:


> Another note!! It is a fairly modern concept to use all this "gear" cross country. Many years ago, breastplates weren't really as popular as they are now. Long time ago people did cross country in a saddle and bridle. No "gadgets". And I believe, along with all the media and articles lately that eventing is at its most dangerous right now. We have had far more deaths in this sport in the past 3 years than 30 years ago. A lack of breastplate would be the LEAST of my worry going around an intermediate or advanced level cross country course today.


 one of the reasons (ive heard) about the increased deaths is people enter a level that they/their horses are not ready for. the usea is doing the best they can to make things safer though... like collapsable jumps in xc.


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

^Totally. Never said it wasn't. Never said why cross country is more dangerous. You are completely right in that. Just saying its not because of breastplates.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

We're not stupid waffles.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> Waffles, why are you trying to tell experienced eventers what to do with their horses?[/QUOTE
> im not telling them what to do with their horses im simply makeing the arguement that a breastplate is a neccesary peice of equip and should not be ignored! besides, what makes them better then me?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

You wear whatever you want on your horse, and we'll wear whatever we want on our horses.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

equineeventer3390 said:


> ^Totally. Never said it wasn't. Never said why cross country is more dangerous. You are completely right in that. Just saying its not because of breastplates.


 yeah it totally agree its not because of breastplates


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

Everyone says studs are necessary too. But take a look at this:
The Horse's Hoof: Barefoot Eventing
Scroll to the chestnut. He did Rolex BAREFOOT and WITHOUT a breastplate. 

All you NEED for eventing is:
A horse.
A saddle
A girth
A bridle
A helmet
A cross country vest 

EVERYTHING else is optional. All this other "gear". Breastplates, martingales, boots, fancy bits, etc, etc, is NOT necessary. Nor is riding at the advanced level with the list posted above dangerous. As long as it all fits well, there is no problem. The extra "gear". is a preference. Don't tell people what they NEED TO DO. You could have, instead, made a threat stating good reasons to have a breastplate XC. And stating your opinion that you think you should always wear a breastplate XC. This would have been taken much better by us other eventers rather than telling us we must use one.


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

But it's NOT necessary! If it were there would be "breastplate checks" before XC just like there are bit checks before dressage. Obviously, USEA lets people use their OWN judgement about what type of tack their horse(s) need while on course.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

collapsible jumps weren't around years ago - and in some cases frangible jumps have proven to be more rather than less dangerous.

for one of the best written articles about the dangers of eventing and what has changed in the sport read what eventing great jim wofford has to say here (and i couldn't agree with him more):

Jim Wofford: Eventing Lives in the Balance


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> We're not stupid waffles.


 im getting some vibes from a few people that i am, does that mean three of my trainers, pony club, my team and my best friends are stupid also?


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

CJ82Sky said:


> collapsible jumps weren't around years ago - and in some cases frangible jumps have proven to be more rather than less dangerous.
> 
> for one of the best written articles about the dangers of eventing and what has changed in the sport read what eventing great jim wofford has to say here (and i couldn't agree with him more):
> 
> Jim Wofford: Eventing Lives in the Balance


true he is correct about rotational falls and balence but that has nothing to do with breastplates.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> true he is correct about rotational falls and balence but that has nothing to do with breastplates.


exactly the point.
it's not required because not using one does not cause more danger, accidents, or death.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ Exactly.

The sport of eventing has become dangerous because of 2 reasons at the Upper Levels - the over technicality of the courses today, and the loss of the long format.

Not whether someone uses a breastplate or not.

Great posts CJ, equineeventer and My Beau.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

equineeventer3390 said:


> Everyone says studs are necessary too. But take a look at this:
> The Horse's Hoof: Barefoot Eventing
> Scroll to the chestnut. He did Rolex BAREFOOT and WITHOUT a breastplate.
> 
> ...


1st off i agree with the barefoot thing. best thing i ever did. i go to a classical school and i had to do a project. my teacher said post a fact an appropriate forum and make an argument out of it, i have to turn this in as a grade. it is kinda like the alternative to a persuasive paper (he is experimenting with new ways to get us to pay attention ). so sorry if the title/thread was missleading- my teacher approved it and if your gunna blame someone lame him.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

My Beau said:


> But it's NOT necessary! If it were there would be "breastplate checks" before XC just like there are bit checks before dressage. Obviously, USEA lets people use their OWN judgement about what type of tack their horse(s) need while on course.


 bit check makes sure you are using a plain humane bit (snaffle!) and not cheating, wearing a breastplte is not cheating!


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> 1st off i agree with the barefoot thing. best thing i ever did. i go to a classical school and i had to do a project. my teacher said post a fact an appropriate forum and make an argument out of it, i have to turn this in as a grade. it is kinda like the alternative to a persuasive paper (he is experimenting with new ways to get us to pay attention ). so sorry if the title/thread was missleading- my teacher approved it and if your gunna blame someone lame him.




If you agree with the barefoot thing then, how would you feel if someone posted a thread saying. Everyone should use studs and shoes, all the time, regardless of the horse's feet/need for them. I could think of ALOT of reasons to use studs. Just in the same way I can think of reasons to use a breastplate. However NEITHER of them are necessary. Nor is it dangerous to go without. If you have good fitting tack, breastplate is not needed. If you horse has good, sound feed, shoes and studs are not necessary. I've seen quite a few horses slip XC because they didn't have studs. Doesn't mean everyone should use them though.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

equineeventer3390 said:


> If you agree with the barefoot thing then, how would you feel if someone posted a thread saying. Everyone should use studs and shoes, all the time, regardless of the horse's feet/need for them. I could think of ALOT of reasons to use studs. Just in the same way I can think of reasons to use a breastplate. However NEITHER of them are necessary. Nor is it dangerous to go without. If you have good fitting tack, breastplate is not needed. If you horse has good, sound feed, shoes and studs are not necessary. I've seen quite a few horses slip XC because they didn't have studs. Doesn't mean everyone should use them though.


*applause*


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

equineeventer3390 said:


> If you agree with the barefoot thing then, how would you feel if someone posted a thread saying. Everyone should use studs and shoes, all the time, regardless of the horse's feet/need for them. I could think of ALOT of reasons to use studs. Just in the same way I can think of reasons to use a breastplate. However NEITHER of them are necessary. Nor is it dangerous to go without. If you have good fitting tack, breastplate is not needed. If you horse has good, sound feed, shoes and studs are not necessary. I've seen quite a few horses slip XC because they didn't have studs. Doesn't mean everyone should use them though.


 i wouldn't have implied their lack of experience or knowledge i would have respected their opinion and moved on.


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

We would have respected your opinion also if you had stated it as your opinion. However it came across as really demanding and telling people what to do. Nothing wrong with an opinion! I just didn't see this thread as an opinion. And you weren't very open to other people's opinions when they stated their reasons why a breastplate is not 100% necessary all the time. Also no one implied you lack knowledge. I believe it was just stated that some of us eventers on here may have more experience than you do and I am sure some of us do. I am sure there are some eventers on here that have been doing it longer than I have and have more experience than me. Nothing wrong with that.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

equineeventer3390 said:


> We would have respected your opinion also if you had stated it as your opinion. However it came across as really demanding and telling people what to do. Nothing wrong with an opinion! I just didn't see this thread as an opinion. And you weren't very open to other people's opinions when they stated their reasons why a breastplate is not 100% necessary all the time. Also no one implied you lack knowledge. I believe it was just stated that some of us eventers on here may have more experience than you do and I am sure some of us do. I am sure there are some eventers on here that have been doing it longer than I have and have more experience than me. Nothing wrong with that.


 two things- im sorry i ever misslead anyone i did not attempt to apear bossy and ive jumped that jump in you avatar pic before! love that jump! poplar right?


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

Yes, Poplar! Lovely, lovely farm! By far my favorite event! That picture was quite a few years ago though.


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

equineeventer3390 said:


> Yes, Poplar! Lovely, lovely farm! By far my favorite event! That picture was quite a few years ago though.


 YEY!!!! ive evented there more than any other place! going back in april!


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

I'm doing Chatt in april! Being a 3 day I couldn't do poplar. That picture was the last event I did on that horse, about 5 years ago. He got hurt about a month after that and I worked for 2 years to bring him back, but ended up having to retire him from jumping. So I then got a 3 year old from the track. He is 6 now and just starting to go recognized. I can't wait for chatt! Do you ever do full gallop, sporting days or pine top? I live in Aiken, so those are the ones i do the most!


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## wafflestheunicorn (Feb 23, 2011)

equineeventer3390 said:


> I'm doing Chatt in april! Being a 3 day I couldn't do poplar. That picture was the last event I did on that horse, about 5 years ago. He got hurt about a month after that and I worked for 2 years to bring him back, but ended up having to retire him from jumping. So I then got a 3 year old from the track. He is 6 now and just starting to go recognized. I can't wait for chatt! Do you ever do full gallop, sporting days or pine top? I live in Aiken, so those are the ones i do the most!


 full gallop and S.D. are too far for school scheduale but ive been to pine top twice it has tons of character!


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## equineeventer3390 (Mar 27, 2009)

Yeah pine top is great too!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

wafflestheunicorn said:


> they had to change it in 2005 because it was too dangerous. plus looky here, what do you see? hmmm.... breastplates.
> DSC_0340a | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> Hickstead derby bank - Bing Images
> Hickstead derby bank - Bing Images


they lessen the angle of the bank by a very small amount and but at no point did they change the course otherwise! It is still the steepest and biggest bank in the world and a serious challenge!
Yes some people choose to use a breastplate but obviously it isnt nessecary!

I can find you photos of many horses doing hickstead without a breastplate.
one to start off with!
http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/d/derby%201.jpg

A breast plate in never essential, perticularly if your saddle fits well. I never used one and my saddles fit perfectly (they were made for the ponies).

Now i can understand why people would LIKE to use them and I can understand why some people would FEEL safer using them, However the are not essential and there is no need to say that everyone MUST wear one.

I go hunting (or at least I do when I have a horse!) and you will find equal amounts of people with and without breastplates. Interestingly enough If you hunt in Ireland breastplates are not that common and they have very scarey hunting territory!

If they where essential for safety then there would be a rule stating that you have to have one and there would be stewards checking, just like there is for bodyprotectors!


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Bottom line...we are all experienced Eventers who love our horses and would rather not die on course  so if breast plates were really necessary to ensure safety we would all have them already...people tend to get upset when you talk in absolutes since we all should know by now that absolutes are rarely ever right  

The barefoot example was a great point to this. My horse has always been barefoot without issue. Why would I put shoes on her for no reason other than someone else says I have to or I'm being unsafe? They don't know my horse or her feet but I know every inch of them 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Great posts faye and HITS!


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