# Hollowed Back?



## sonnygrl (Nov 28, 2010)

hmm well if you can stand on the ground and stand up straight and shoulder back then your muscles are strong enough. you said to not critique you and im not but some things i saw in the vids that may help deal with your position. in one of the vids you are sitting on your but like wayyy on your but. rock your pelvis forward and shift more weight on your crotch just so it evens it out a little and your not entierly sitting on your but. this will take the "hump" out of your lower back. also your legs can come under your body a little more. this will help with you putting more weight on your crotch. now maybe your muscles are not used to the movement of a horse...?? i dont know but if you put your shoulders back and imagine poking your chest out that would give you a straight back. do you have a crooked spine? that will deff cause problems and make it hard. but like i said if you do the above that will give you a straight back.


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

well for the legs, ignore the lower legs on the second, as I couldn't get a grip due to the tall boots. I have trouble on small horses to get my legs back :/ but I will try to more. and I find that sitting on my crotch makes the hollow more promenent? cause that just shifts my hips forward
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi Grace,

I don't think your posting is so odd. I think one does move both upward and forward. It looks more odd on the paint horse because you are so tall for the horse's size. What I do see, in both videos, is that you don't really have your weight into your feet/stirrups . There is some sort of gripping going on that make you tend to "hinge" yourself up from the knee or calf. Your feet just don't look like they are really stable. 
I wonder what you would post like if you were on a lunge line and no reins.

Anyway, that's what I see, for what it's worth. Cheers !

CC


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Hi Grace,
> 
> I don't think your posting is so odd. I think one does move both upward and forward. It looks more odd on the paint horse because you are so tall for the horse's size. What I do see, in both videos, is that you don't really have your weight into your feet/stirrups . There is some sort of gripping going on that make you tend to "hinge" yourself up from the knee or calf. Your feet just don't look like they are really stable.
> I wonder what you would post like if you were on a lunge line and no reins.
> ...


 Thanks for the Input! I will focus on my feet, lol. 

Unfortunately there is no way for me to really see what I would look like with no reins, and we never do any work on a lunge line.


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## sonnygrl (Nov 28, 2010)

RidingTowardsGrace said:


> well for the legs, ignore the lower legs on the second, as I couldn't get a grip due to the tall boots. I have trouble on small horses to get my legs back :/ but I will try to more. and I find that sitting on my crotch makes the hollow more promenent? cause that just shifts my hips forward
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 shifting your hips should put an arch in your back not have an opposite effect. like when you stand on the ground and you stick your but out and arch your back... same concept just in the saddle.


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## cosmomomo (Aug 10, 2010)

I know you said no critique, but I think it is the basis of your position that is causing the problem. There isn't much depth in your heel, which brings your knee up and unstabilizes your upper body. What I think is happening is you are trying to make up for that lack of balance by hunching your back. Like the person above me said, stick your butt out and just try and arch your back. Be sure to try and focus on really flexing your ankle at the same time. It's not going to be easy, and will hurt, but little by little over time it will help you improve and you will flow more with any horse you ride  Good luck!


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

Bahh now Im extra confused. I think everyone is misunderstanding what Im talking about.

Here is an illustration. I think everyone is thinking I arch my back. Im talking about taking the HOLLOW out.


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## sonnygrl (Nov 28, 2010)

o boy. lots of confustion.... well in your origional post you said u hollow your back. thats the slumpy, humped back, fetal position look where your slouched over. when we say arch your back it should look like what you have labled "hollow back" like i said before when your standing and you poke your but out throw your hand on your hip and look cute... thats an arch in your back. a hollow back is what your showing in your vids where your slouched over. so take your drawing and switch the names you labled them with. i HOPE this clears up the confusion.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Have not watched the videos so can not comment on the original question. Just wanted to day, RTG, I love your little stick figure diagrams. Very nice.


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

haha thanks. gotta love the stick figures. and hollow means concave or space with no matter. free space. so hollow actually is what the diagram states. maybe in horse terms its different, but in technical terms, its correct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sonnygrl (Nov 28, 2010)

RidingTowardsGrace said:


> Ive noticed that when I ride, mainly trotting and cantering in the hunt seat, *my back hollows out and gets that little dip.* Why is this?
> 
> I try to straighten my back, but I just cant do it. When I say cant, I mean...physically. I try to flatten it out but then I get rigid from holding it in place and close my chest/point my shoulders in. Could it be that my back muscles arnt developed enough to hold my back flat? ITt really aggrivates me when I trot, because I almost am going up and forward, not up, because of the hollowed back. And my trainer says thats wrong. He tried to get me to stop shifting my hips when I post, but I just cant do it. I have no idea why!
> 
> ...





RidingTowardsGrace said:


> Bahh now Im extra confused. I think everyone is misunderstanding what Im talking about.
> 
> Here is an illustration. I think everyone is thinking I arch my back. Im talking about taking the HOLLOW out.


 ok in your post you said you hollow your back and in your pic you did, the one you labled as hollow is the opposite of what you do. acording to your pic you drew you arch your back so i think you are confused as to what you are doing. in your video you are (lets use a diff term) slouched. and what you need to do is reverse that so your back goes from a convex bend to a concave bend


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

sonnygrl said:


> ok in your post you said you hollow your back and in your pic you did, the one you labled as hollow is the opposite of what you do. acording to your pic you drew you arch your back so i think you are confused as to what you are doing. in your video you are (lets use a diff term) slouched. and what you need to do is reverse that so your back goes from a convex bend to a concave bend


bah no my shoulders hunch, my lower back arches in/hollows. I will find a video with me wearing a more fit shirt so everyone can see. I'm not hunching my entire back, what your seeing is my shoulders going in and not sitting straight. even when they're like that, my lower back is still with a hollow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

_*HOllow back*_ means the hip is rolled forward and butt is pouched out. Like first figure in the stick figure diagrams.


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> _*HOllow back*_ means the hip is rolled forward and butt is pouched out. Like first figure in the stick figure diagrams.


uh...yes. that's what I've been saying thisbwhole time 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I really don't think you are that bad to be honest. The pic in your Avatar looks just fine - hollowed out back wise.

Let's talk in descriptions, and bring up the Late And Great Sally Swift. She describes Balance like this:

Imagine you have a bowl of water in your belly. Just sitting there. Your goal is to make sure you do not allow that water to spill. So, if you hollow out your lower back, like you are talking about, all your weight shifts to the front of you, and that water gushes out your belly. And, if you arch your lower back, now your weight has shifted to the back of you, and that bowl of water spills out behind you.

So, by straitening your lower back, and bringing your core into you - will help you remain balanced. But like you said, you are having difficulties doing so. 

When I am riding, I imagine someone is behind me, and has reached through my back, grabs my belly button and pulls it. It takes your leg being under you, your body over your feet, your pelvis shifting *bringing your tail bone under you slightly* until you feel your back - straiten. Now- remember - your back cannot be strait like a board, of course there is going to be a bit of an arch to it

The issue here, is that whether it be your saddle, or you - is that your legs are out infront of you. You are not balancing over your feet, your lower leg is not under you, where it should be. Instead, your feet are bypassing your girth and out infront of you.

You wont beable to shift your pelvis, or adjust your lower body, to accomodate a back to straiten - if that makes sense. You are going to have a harder time doing so, because your balance is not centered - hence, Sally Swift and her theories of Centered Riding.

Also, Jane Savoi is a big help, I watch a lot of her video's on youtube - and here is one that might be helpful. Stop at 1:47 and you'll see a diagram of where your back should be:





 
And to help your shoulders - watch this video:





 
The Tips Jane gives the rider are great! I love how she has her reach behind her back with the one arm - I love how that brings your shoulders back. 

I love her descriptions - great video.

I hope these help!


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

MIEventer said:


> I really don't think you are that bad to be honest. The pic in your Avatar looks just fine - hollowed out back wise.
> 
> Let's talk in descriptions, and bring up the Late And Great Sally Swift. She describes Balance like this:
> 
> ...


Ah yes thank you! Thats what I was trying to get to.


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