# Why all the high heads and martingales?



## TrailDustMelody (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm super new to endurance so pardon the silly question, but why do so many endurance horses travel high-headed? Also, why so many running martingales?
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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

I'm not sure about the martingale question but as for the 'high heads', a lot of endurance horses are Arabian's who usually travel with a naturally high head set.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Can you give a photo example of what you consider high heads?


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## TrailDustMelody (Jun 23, 2013)

Ok, so they are able to hold their heads higher without hollowing their backs?
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## TrailDustMelody (Jun 23, 2013)

Sure...I'm heading out to ride so I'll get photos later. FYI I have an Arab so I'm used to a higher head than say a QH. I'll just get photos later. 
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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I would imagine that they use the running martingales in Endurance for much the same reason as they are traditionally a part of the standard fox hunting tack in the UK - they are a great safety net if you need it (and you never know when you might) but as long as they're fitted correctly don't otherwise interfere with the horses natural head carriage


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I once heard someone say you can tell where a horse is looking by the head elevation. And, yes, Arabs do have a naturally higher head carriage than many other breeds.
When the horses out in the pasture bring their heads up they are focusing on something in the distance. Same on the trail. If that head come up they are watching. The head is much lower if we are walking along and the nose goes down if they are watching the ground for a puddle, tree roots, whatever.
I would expect an endurance horse going down the trail at a trot to be looking in the distance a bit. I did LD a number of years ago and to me it seems most of the horses traveled as naturally as possible without being hollowed out.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Arabs just have a higher natural head carriage.

I use a running martingale on my horse when I ride with others or in a new place. Reason being is that my horse will sometimes try to evade the bit by sucking back and twisting his head. It's near impossible to do much besides hang on when he does that without a martingale. With the martingale it's much easier to send him forward and bring him back to me.
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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Dustbunny said:


> I once heard someone say you can tell where a horse is looking by the head elevation...


Wiki has a good article on horses & vision:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_vision#Visual_field










And:"_The horse also has a "visual streak", or an area within the retina, linear in shape, with a high concentration of ganglion cells (up to 6100 cells/mm2 in the visual streak compared to the 150 and 200 cells/mm2 in the peripheral area). Horses have better acuity when the objects they are looking at fall in this region. They therefore will tilt or raise their heads, to help place the objects within the area of the visual streak._"​Also, how a horse uses its back is much more complex than the simplified rules we tend to apply. These short articles give a good taste of the difference between what we normally discuss and what actually happens:

Jean Luc Cornille discoveries of the horses spine and the influence on traning horses.

Hind Legs Engagement and Stifle Problem


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## Horsesaplenty (Jan 9, 2013)

My arab wore a martingale when riding at the farm I got him from. I havent used one at all. He has been very good and comes down off the bit when asked.
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

"Corporal" was an Arabian, and I did NOT use a standing or running martingale on him. (1982-2009, RIP) IDK about how many people use a martingale when riding endurance, but I don't want ANY extra hanging equipment on my horse when I ride really rough up and down and/or steep trails. I've had horses long enough to have them step through the reins while stopped and grazing, and the same thing can happen if you give them their head and now have 4 pieces of leather working to catch a foot. You get a leg in the martingale and your horse's head will follow.
I've ridden many steep and mountainous trails, including the "goat trail" you take up to Harney's Peak, SD.
Really, guys, it's a little like barrel racers who can only think of racing and not listening. IMHO, get your horses under control before your endurance ride and drop the martingales.


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## TrailDustMelody (Jun 23, 2013)

I'm not opposed to martingales, just don't understand why seasoned endurance horses still wear them. I've always thought of them as training aids? I've used a homemade sliding one on my mare when she "forgets" how to collect her trot. What accidents do they prevent?


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## TrailDustMelody (Jun 23, 2013)

Ok, so photos. This to me looks normal: http://enduranceridestuff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/Karen_Tigger_VirginiaCity100.jpg

This looks a little high to me but not bad: http://www.equitrekking.com/images/uploads/arabian_endurance.jpg

Well these horses seem fussy but this to me looks high: http://www.olddominionrides.org/EndurancePrimer/photos/endurance-riders-comp.JPG

Just trying to understand.  I rode with an experienced endurance rider and she commented that she wanted her appy's head higher. For some reason I didn't ask her why.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

photographers like to set up in cool spots, tops of hills, etc, alot of times you just come up on them, naturrally after miles of trails, suddenly a wierd looking beast is on side of trail, horses head is gonna pop up and look. 
Im also gonna bet most endurance riders arnt grinning and waving for 50 miles.
The thing that gets me though is quite a few AERC members on various forums have complete melt downs over a picture of a rider without a helmet, yet at a recent ride in Georgia, with a 3-6 foot deep or so river crossing I saw lots and lots of pictures of horses with tiedowns and martingals. That is just insane. People needed to be jackslapped. Surprisingly no uproar over it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

TrailDustMelody said:


> I'm not opposed to martingales, just don't understand why seasoned endurance horses still wear them. I've always thought of them as training aids? I've used a homemade sliding one on my mare when she "forgets" how to collect her trot. What accidents do they prevent?


 If someone has a running martingale on that's working as a training aid then its not correctly fitted. They should never interfere with a horses natural head carriage or bring a horses head down - only enough to stop them hitting you in the face or being able to get the bit into the corners of the mouth and then between the teeth


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

jaydee said:


> ...They should never interfere with a horses natural head carriage or bring a horses head down - only enough to stop them ... being able to get the bit into the corners of the mouth and then between the teeth


Slightly off topic, but not entirely, since I'm trying to learn why someone uses a running martingale:

When Mia figured out how to stretch her neck and head out & get the bit between her teeth, I switched her to a curb bit. No matter what she does with the metal in her mouth, she still has to deal with poll pressure & ultimately the curb strap (which she hates). So would another alternative have been to stay with a snaffle and use a running martingale, so she couldn't stretch out enough to get the bit in her teeth? She does well in a curb, so I'm not planning on switching her back...just wondering.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Possibly answering my own question...reading up on martingales, it seems they prevent the horse from raising its head, but not from stretching out horizontally, which is what Mia did. So it wouldn't have been an option. Sorry for the digression...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

That's OK - I think its always good to investigate options 'just in case'. They are more for the head flippers and star gazers IMO


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## TrailDustMelody (Jun 23, 2013)

Thanks for the info on proper use of running martingales. Just to clarify, I don't use it to force my mare's head down. She sometimes throws her head around and sticks her nose out at the trot, so the martingale was there to basically say, "you can put your head this high and no higher". But I will keep that in mind so that I don't use it improperly. Thanks! 

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to sound antagonistic about the high heads. I'm a big fan of Arabs and personally don't mind the higher head carriage. I guess I'm just getting natural head carriage mixed up with some tense, impatient horses I've seen out on the trail. Flipping through an endurance book I just got, I saw a comparison of a tense, hollow-backed horse next to a relaxed horse, both still had their heads up but the difference was obvious. So I guess I answered my own question. Sorry if I seemed contentious.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

No, no...not contentious at all. : )


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