# Newbie rider needs lots of advice!



## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

Hmmm, trying link again.


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

Fixed link in original post....


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

Please wear a helmet. The barn must be very laid back if they are not insisting on helmets for lessons.

I can't comment on specifics of your riding. You've only just started and overall I think you are doing pretty well if you are cantering already after only about 4 months of riding.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'll recommend two books:

1 - Common Sense Horsemanship by VS Littauer. About $25 used. My favorite book on riding, even if I ride western and it preaches a Forward Seat more often associated with jumping. I may be the only western rider who canters in a half-seat. Available free online here (I downloaded the pdf file):









Common Sense Horseman Ship : Vladimir S. Littauer : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive






archive.org





2 - How Your Horse Wants You to Ride: Starting Out, Starting Over by Gincy Self Bucklin. Also written from an English perspective. I really haven't found any GOOD books on riding western. Which I guess is OK since you're riding English anyways!

I started at 50, 13 years ago. The longer I go, the more I like riding in two point - or "standing in the stirrups" as it was once called - because it forces one to ride "with" your horse, and I think far too many are TAUGHT to ride "behind their horse".

This one is Horseman's Progress - The Development Of Modern Riding by VS Littauer. 









Horseman S Progress The Development Of Modern Riding : Aladimer S. Littauer : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive






archive.org





I love reading the history of European riding. One of my favorite passages:

"_For instance Blundeville also suggests how a rider who "lacketh arte, and knoweth not by order of riding how to get the maistrie of his horse" may correct his stubbornness and make him move forward:

"*Let a footman stand behind you with a shrewd cat tied at the one end of a long pole, with hir bellie upward, so as she may have hir mouth and clawes at libertie; and when your horse doth staie or goe backward, let him thrust the cat betwixt his thighs, so as she may scratch and bite him*, sometimes by the thighs, sometimes by the rumpe . . . *and let the footman and all the standers-by threaten the horse with a terrible noise, and you shall see it will make him to go* as you will have him, and on so doing be ready to make much of him. 

Also, the shrill crie of a hedgehog being strait tied by the foot under the horse's taile is a reminder of like force, which was proved by Master Vincentio Respino a Neapolitan, *who corrected by this means an old restive horse of the King's in such sort, as he had much ado afterward to keepe him from the contrarie vice of running awaie*.._." 

Nothing quite like what man has been known to do to horses. 😕 









Horseman S Progress The Development Of Modern Riding : Aladimer S. Littauer : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive






archive.org


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

You're looking very good for someone so new at riding! And it's better that your hands are moving a bit too much than having them too stiff.

One tip I'd give is to get your hands turned so that your fist is vertical, with your thumbs on top. That will give you a better connection to the mouth, and will also help keep your elbows closer to your sides.

Also, I noticed the English tack and was about to suggest shortening your reins for better contact... but then noticed the western curb bit. So never mind, I guess? Are these supposed to be English lessons, or Western lessons? Because that will impact the advice we give you.

And I'll echo what Meditative Rider said above, and strongly encourage you to get a riding helmet. I'm frankly shocked that any lesson barn wouldn't have helmets as an absolute requirement. Brain injuries can happen VERY easily in falls from horses. Much more so than in most other sports. Bodies usually heal, but traumatic brain injuries can cause lifelong damage that never improves. And even if they're only temporary, you can lose weeks or even months of income if you lose time off work from a concussion.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

If it is in the west, riding helmets may be optional. They were when I took lessons. I mostly wear them now since I often spend part of my ride on pavement, but I don't always do so.


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

SteadyOn said:


> You're looking very good for someone so new at riding! And it's better that your hands are moving a bit too much than having them too stiff.
> 
> One tip I'd give is to get your hands turned so that your fist is vertical, with your thumbs on top. That will give you a better connection to the mouth, and will also help keep your elbows closer to your sides.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip! I had alot of switching and trial and changes during my first few months! She started me in a western saddle, then she had me try a dressage saddle because she thought that I'd like it (I did!) She switched me back and forth between several horses and she had me use a western bit for the longest time before finally moving me into an English bridle/bit. So I now have a shorter reign and definitely more contact. I want to learn dressage and ultimately be good enough to be comfortable riding with just a saddle pad. 
As far as the helmet goes.... it was a opps I forgot to put it on! No one caught the fact that I had no helmet until I reached up to take it off and realized that it was my hat and no helmet! 🤦🏽‍♀️😂🤣
I have made sure to have one since then. 👍🏻


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

HubbysSweetheart said:


> As far as the helmet goes.... it was a opps I forgot to put it on! No one caught the fact that I had no helmet until I reached up to take it off and realized that it was my hat and no helmet! 🤦🏽‍♀️😂🤣
> I have made sure to have one since then. 👍🏻


Haha oh good, that's a relief! I think the only time I've been helmet-less on a horse in the last 15 years... was a similar incident. I was wearing a warm winter hat and forgot to change into my helmet. But because I felt the pressure of the hat around my head, I didn't realize I hadn't switched!! Whoops!


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

bsms said:


> I'll recommend two books:
> 
> 1 - Common Sense Horsemanship by VS Littauer. About $25 used. My favorite book on riding, even if I ride western and it preaches a Forward Seat more often associated with jumping. I may be the only western rider who canters in a half-seat. Available free online here (I downloaded the pdf file):
> 
> ...



Thanks will definitely check into those. My goal is to become able to confidentiality ride in just a saddle pad. I like dressage because of all the communication techniques and finesse of it, but won't ever be competing or participating in any show. Just trying to glean tools. To me the most beautiful thing is a rider and horse with such a trusting/supporting relationship that no tack is needed for safety, just used for comfort. 
I know I have many years ahead of me to learn even a fraction of what I'd like to know and be able to do. I'm just grateful that I have any opportunity to learn at all.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I think you are doing well for the amount of time you have been riding, and it's not as easy when you are 36 as compared to a young teen or preteen. I also can see that you have a fairly secure seat and are not hanging on the reins for support, good for you.
I do second the wearing of a helmet, at one time I didn't think it was necessary but after a fall that took out the back of my helmet I now wear it every time I ride. I think I would be a vegetable if still alive if it weren't for the helmet.
Good luck to you and happy that you are making your dream come true.


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

MeditativeRider said:


> Please wear a helmet. The barn must be very laid back if they are not insisting on helmets for lessons.
> 
> I can't comment on specifics of your riding. You've only just started and overall I think you are doing pretty well if you are cantering already after only about 4 months of riding.


If you see above responses, it was an oops 🤦🏽‍♀️😬🤷🏽‍♀️ I have been in a helmet every other time.👍🏻😁


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

Woodhaven said:


> I think you are doing well for the amount of time you have been riding, and it's not as easy when you are 36 as compared to a young teen or preteen. I also can see that you have a fairly secure seat and are not hanging on the reins for support, good for you.
> I do second the wearing of a helmet, at one time I didn't think it was necessary but after a fall that took out the back of my helmet I now wear it every time I ride. I think I would be a vegetable if still alive if it weren't for the helmet.
> Good luck to you and happy that you are making your dream come true.


Thank you for your encouragement, I am trying so hard to never be hard on the horses mouth.... which made the stubborn horse all the more of a challenge! 
My kids are also taking lessons... it's so true about the age thing! But I'm choosing to focus on being grateful that I can do it now, rather than morn lost years. 👍🏻😊

Helmet was a total mistake! I have worn one every other time.🤦🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I have done similar with biking + helmet use and got about a block from my house and wondered why my head felt so cool and breezy. With horse riding, I usually put mine on before I tack up so that I don't forget, and for extra protection in the yards.

You look like you are doing really well at riding if you have had that many changes between gear and horses in only 4 months. I have been a re-rider for 5 years (rode as a kid [no lessons, just fun stuff], had a long break [about 20 years], and started lessons at 36), and I would have been nowhere near what you are at in just 4 months.

Edited to add: In fact this is my entry in my riding journal at about 4 months: "Walk, halt. Tried trot on lunge but too anxious to trot so just did walk. Then did walking exercises off the lunge around the arena". At this point I was at my second lesson place and on about my 4th or 5th horse. The horse had just came back into work after a long break and was not beginner friendly and I had fallen off her the week before when she bucked when I asked her for trot.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

to be honest, there is nothing that anyone here could add that is of more benefit that what you are getting from you on site instructor. you are doing fine, as is she. Carry on!


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

MeditativeRider said:


> I have done similar with biking + helmet use and got about a block from my house and wondered why my head felt so cool and breezy. With horse riding, I usually put mine on before I tack up so that I don't forget, and for extra protection in the yards.
> 
> You look like you are doing really well at riding if you have had that many changes between gear and horses in only 4 months. I have been a re-rider for 5 years (rode as a kid [no lessons, just fun stuff], had a long break [about 20 years], and started lessons at 36), and I would have been nowhere near what you are at in just 4 months.
> 
> Edited to add: In fact this is my entry in my riding journal at about 4 months: "Walk, halt. Tried trot on lunge but too anxious to trot so just did walk. Then did walking exercises off the lunge around the arena". At this point I was at my second lesson place and on about my 4th or 5th horse. The horse had just came back into work after a long break and was not beginner friendly and I had fallen off her the week before when she bucked when I asked her for trot.


Thank you so much for the encouragement! Like I said, the lady that teaches is pretty quiet so I was curious where I actually stood. I'm grateful to know that I don't completely stink.👏🏻 I was prepared for lots of problems to be pointed out because of the lack of instruction.


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## Amyrides (Sep 15, 2021)

I’d say work on keeping the canter going longer. Don’t let it break to the trot without you asking. Also, have you done any two point? Working on the two point at the canter is super important. Try leaning forward a little more as well. I included a photo of my two point at the canter you can try to focus on. definitely try to straighten your back and lean forward if you don’t want to two point.








overall you look okay, just the posture is the thing to work on.
If you feel like your trainer isn’t helping you enough you can try talking to them and/or possibly switching barns.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

You're doing fine....truly.
As adults we have a much finer balance point, fine-tuned...
Adults also have self-preservation knowing we are_ not_ invincible but _do_ break, so a sense of fear we must also recognize and work through. Kids don't really have that sense of "fear of uh-oh", _not so much._
As a kid I loved to swing on swings as high as could be done so the chains actually slapped achieving the point of truly airborne...
Today, swing more than a foot either direction I promise to vomit all over you...
When I fly in a airplane I can feel a altitude change of a foot or so....oh yes, a joy as a passenger the attendants take one look at my face and know as do I what is needed so I not start a cabin full of uh-oh happening.
Fine-tuned balance....

You've already said no show ring stuff do you want to do. You just want to be able to ride and enjoy the feeling of being in harmony with the horse, to ride with as little between you as possible in time...
You're doing a good job of reaching that goal..
The women giving the pointers, the tidbits of wisdom and instruction is giving you all the talk needed, you just need the seat time, the riding time to try out what has been suggested...
Saddle time, ride time, do it time is for many more important to learn the rhythm of working together as one than all the fancy instruction given of hold this here, do that their.....
Time to just learn what your body needs to do when the horses body does this....or you end up doing that. {face-plant aka fall}
My biggest encouragement to you,... is keep on and enjoy what you are doing.
You are doing far better than most in a short period of time with riding several saddles, several horses who have not been the most cooperative, and using several styles of bit each needing a finesse point....
You're learning by doing, sometimes a far better rider you become as you learn to feel the horse move, and follow the movement naturally instead of having to maintain this appearance and position or that....
What ever you're doing, keep at it cause _its working._

Enjoy your time astride riding and keep that smile a mile wide on your face...and yes, that helmet on your skull so when you learn the art of face-planting you have better protection for that lump of matter encased in bone above the shoulders.
Have fun and do enjoy...that's my take on your adventures going forth...*enjoy!!*
🐴...


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

ameliaboo10 said:


> I’d say work on keeping the canter going longer. Don’t let it break to the trot without you asking. Also, have you done any two point? Working on the two point at the canter is super important. Try leaning forward a little more as well. I included a photo of my two point at the canter you can try to focus on. definitely try to straighten your back and lean forward if you don’t want to two point.
> View attachment 1118038
> 
> overall you look okay, just the posture is the thing to work on.
> If you feel like your trainer isn’t helping you enough you can try talking to them and/or possibly switching barns.


Thank you! Yes, keeping the canter up has been hard with him, working on it for sure! He is super stubborn and taught me alot. I'm getting better. 
Do dressage riders use two point? My trainer has never mentioned anything about it. 🤔🤷🏽‍♀️
I guess I'll have to look that up. 👍🏻
Everything I have read so far has talked about leaning forward as bad?? 
Long, long legs, reaching for the ground, weighted on the "tripod" of your seat/tailbone and your rear glued to the horse as you move with him.
Here's one of the articles. I don't say this to argue! Just trying to understand. Maybe I've been misreading or not understanding what they've been saying. 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️









How To Ride Dressage… Real Dressage!


Understanding how to ride dressage depends on how you define dressage. If you are interested in learning how to bring the horse's movement into balance without constraint and tension, then read on!



www.happy-horse-training.com


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

horselovinguy said:


> You're doing fine....truly.
> As adults we have a much finer balance point, fine-tuned...
> Adults also have self-preservation knowing we are_ not_ invincible but _do_ break, so a sense of fear we must also recognize and work through. Kids don't really have that sense of "fear of uh-oh", _not so much._
> As a kid I loved to swing on swings as high as could be done so the chains actually slapped achieving the point of truly airborne...
> ...


Thank you so much! It's good to hear that a whole ton of feedback isn't always necessary. I was worried that because the lady teaching me was quiet in relation to some of the others in their lessons (they are continually talking/instructing their students during the lessons) that I might be behind of where I was supposed to be. 
The fear hasn't kicked in yet, I'm probably not smart enough 🤫😆 Well, except for when he stumbles.... That makes my heart pound out of my chest for a bit!
I will continue to have tons of fun for sure, still have to pinch myself some days while riding because I can't believe it's real!👍🏻


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## HubbysSweetheart (Sep 20, 2021)

bsms said:


> If it is in the west, riding helmets may be optional. They were when I took lessons. I mostly wear them now since I often spend part of my ride on pavement, but I don't always do so.


It's not optional, just a whoops on my part and no one caught it...
You must live in AZ too? I recognize those manzanita and cactus stickers.🌵 😏 😂


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

If you're wanting to go in a dressage direction, I would advise NOT learning to canter in a two-point position any time soon! It can become a crutch for you, encouraging you to brace into your stirrups and lean forward too much. Your canter seat looks wonderful the way it is. If you were wanting to start jumping in the near future, then yes, learning to canter in a two-point would be useful. But your upright position and deep seat are something people have a darn hard time learning if they started to learn canter in a two-point. I can speak to this from experience.  Just keep doing what you're doing until it becomes second nature!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

HubbysSweetheart said:


> Do dressage riders use two point? My trainer has never mentioned anything about it...
> 
> Everything I have read so far has talked about leaning forward as bad??
> 
> Long, long legs, reaching for the ground, weighted on the "tripod" of your seat/tailbone and your rear glued to the horse as you move with him.


Can't speak to what one does in a dressage test. However - and I'm likely to upset some dressage riders with this - dressage is not worried about a horse needing to work hard. "Collection" involves using a lot of energy while going almost nowhere. Which is fine as a sport, provided it is understood to BE a sport and not something easier for the horse. 

TWO POINT: I have no idea if dressage riders teach it or use it. I will say I know of no better way to learn the feel of your horse's balance, or how to stay in balance with his own natural balance. One cannot stand in the stirrups unless "with" their horse. Get behind or in front of your horse in two point, and you will either fall forward or back. You can only stay upright by staying in balance with your horse's motion.

Secondly, two point reduces the peak impact pressures on your horse's back by 20%. A 200 lb rider in two point feels like a 160lb rider who is sitting or posting.

Third, two point allows your horse to FLOW beneath you, without your interfering or increasing his workload by forcing him to handle the weight of one's rump. I've been riding with a longer leg in the desert out of concern for spooking, something I did far too much of with Mia. Bandit has earned my trust. And besides, my aging back is still bothered some by an old injury and it is getting worse as I age. Two point, as in a half seat, allows my legs to absorb more impact, saving both MY back AND my horse's.

But two point REQUIRES leaning forward most of the time. Most riders ride "Behind the horse". I've seen it with my own horses both in the desert and in the arena. If I get off their backs, even if just an inch, and match my balance to theirs, then they turn MUCH better and have a more fluid motion.

Piero Santini's first paragraph on Geometry of the Forward Seat in Riding Reflections (1933): "_The verb 'to sit' should be eliminated from our vocabulary where riding is concerned, for the idea it conveys is intrinsically misleading. Were it not for its indecorous connotation the word 'perch' would more aptly suggest the position that the rider should assume in what is commonly described as the 'forward' seat._

I prefer to "float" than to "perch", and to "straddle" rather than "sit". As a beginning rider, it is worth thinking about what your goals are. I'm in Arizona, and my riding area is like this:














The more I trail ride, with my own back often causing pain, I find myself putting more and more emphasis on getting off his back and trying to float above him versus sitting on him. Using slack reins whenever possible. *Where safety allows, I want to be off his back and out of his mouth*. This is a long quote from Federico Caprilli. The more trail riding I do with Bandit, the more I agree with Caprilli:

"_Long years of practice and of continual observation have convinced me that *the horse acquires these qualities without effort provided that the rider subjects him to rational and uninterrupted training, throughout which he tries to make his own actions the least disturbing that he can to the horse*, and tries not to impede him in the natural development of his aptitudes and energies....By this I do not mean to say that one should let the horse do as he pleases; one should, instead, if necessary persuade him with firmness and energy to do the rider's will, while leaving him full liberty to avail himself of and to use as best it suits him his balance and his strength. From this fundamental and unchanging principle stem all the practical rules of equitation with which I shall deal. . . .

...*the first rule of good riding is that of reducing, simplifying and sometimes, if possible, even eliminating the action of the rider. If the hands are used to turn and check a horse, and the legs to make him move forward and to give him resolution and decisiveness this is enough*...

If natural work is required of a horse [field work] and not artificial [manege work] he will be better able to make use of his impulses, instincts and his natural balance . . .

. . . the horse who has rational exercise, *during which he is allowed to balance himself as he pleases*, not being punished with needless suffering, develops in the most efficient fashion, with great advantage to his way of carrying himself, and *becomes docile and submissive to the wishes of the rider*.

... in order to accustom horses to the field without ruining them and making them bad-tempered, one must always profit by the natural instincts of the animal substantiating his movements and way of going, and one must give him the least possible discomfort in the mouth, loins and ribs. One must abolish the forced position of balance, and any action of the horse's legs beyond that which is essential to move him forward.

In consequence, *we shall have no more riders who ruin horses by trying to undertake work that they are not fit to ask of a horse, and that, even if well done and properly asked, not only is of no advantage but is actually harmful to the true work the horse should perform.*_"

He makes a point that is often overlooked but that has been very effective for me: The more I get out of my horse's way, the less I dominate him and instead try to free him, the more he becomes willing, agreeable and obedient. This lady's experience mirror's my own:

"_As I gained confidence in her and came to realize I could trust her in emergencies, I allowed her more freedom; concentrating less on the stops and turns, I had more time to think of widening her experience. *She in turn obeyed my orders with more alacrity as the number of orders decreased.* She began, it seemed, to take a pride and pleasure on guessing my intentions._" - Adventures Unbridled - Moyra Williams 1960, page 42

A lot to toss your way, but I've wasted a lot of time because I never met an instructor who approached riding this way. Good luck to you regardless!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_Riding the canter correctly and well in a full seat is difficult, and many more riders do it badly than do it well. As Allison stated above, it requires a degree of abdominal fitness, as well as correct position, relaxation and a good understanding of gait mechanics and how the horse's back moves. That's out of reach for a lot of recreational riders. I would much rather see an elementary or intermediate rider cantering in half seat, allowing the horse to move freely, than someone attempting and failing a full following seat and punishing the horse's back in the process.

There is nothing inherently insecure about riding the canter in half-seat or two point as long as the rider is in balance._" 









Riding the canter in half seat


Officially started lessons again today after a 3 month break... Woohoo! I'm feling the burn... Anyways, I have never really gotten how to sit the canter the right way, every time I try to sit it I bounce and feel out of control. Today I tried riding I half seat where I am not quite in 2 point...




www.horseforum.com





Amen! One of the points Littauer makes which is both critical and often overlooked: NO RECREATIONAL RIDER CAN RIDE LIKE A PRO! What can be done by a fine athlete on a highly trained horse, while riding 8 hours/day, daily, has almost NOTHING to do with what a mere mortal riding a few hours a week can do! Pretending otherwise is dangerous for the rider and harmful to the horse.

"_In 1931 my second book, JUMPING THE HORSE, was published; and among the reviews there was one uncomplimentary one which appeared in Polo. In part it read: ". . . in brief, it presents this thesis; don't try to play tennis the way Tilden does it, because you cannot; don't pay any attention to Bobby Jones because you couldn't possibly hit a ball the way he does. Or, to come right down to it, don't bother to try to go over obstacles the way Major Harry Chamberlin does, because you never will be able to anyway; just leave the reins loose enough so that the horse will do the work, without interference from you."

There was the answer to my problem. Less than one per cent of my pupils may have the riding genius of Major Harry Chamberlin, and very few of them will ever devote as many hours a day, and as many years of such days to riding and thinking about riding as he did; a few of them may be professionals but the majority will be bankers and lawyers and business men, and their wives and daughters who, in their turn, will marry doctors and lawyers. 

*Of course it is foolish to try to teach them to ride the way men who devote their lives to riding do.* For most of my pupils riding is merely a relaxation and I just have to make them ride efficiently and without abusing their horses on the trails, in the hunting field, in the horse shows etc. What was said in JUMPING THE HORSE was perhaps too simple for Polo, *but was too complicated for hundreds of my pupils, young and old, fat and lean, brave and frightened.* This is how my work lost its abstract aspects and acquired the tendency to adjust sound riding ideas to contemporary life._" - VS Littauer, Common Sense Horsemanship, 1963


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## Palfrey (May 29, 2020)

I think you are looking really good. So good in fact, I think, as a treat to yourself, you should find new instruction that focuses more on dressage--your sport of choice. There is nothing wrong with a relaxed, backyard type set up. But I feel your a bit of a sponge and are wanting more. And, warning, dressage is an addiction!  

One of the best ways to get an independent seat is to have lunge lessons (case in point, Spanish Riding School riders are on the lunge line for an entire year before they take up the reins independently--and most of their work is without stirrups) 

I recommend the book Dressage in Harmony by Walter Zettl. 

Good luck to you on your journey!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I would ride how your instructor is telling you . Leaning forward can cause a horse to move faster. As a beginner you want to get your basic down before going faster. Practice toes in at home , heels down toe up and in. Make some muscle memory. Straddle a chair and do it. lol. riding two handed be sure to keep your hands far enough apart. You look good for just starting. Have fun .


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

bsms said:


> Can't speak to what one does in a dressage test. However - and I'm likely to upset some dressage riders with this - dressage is not worried about a horse needing to work hard. "Collection" involves using a lot of energy while going almost nowhere. Which is fine as a sport, provided it is understood to BE a sport and not something easier for the horse.


Collection does have a very important purpose, beyond just style. The most useful description of collection that I have seen is "a state of readiness." Bullfighting horses, for example, are ridden in a state of constant collection because they have to have their weight back in their haunches to spin and maneuver. Working equitation horses -- who are judged on their speed -- are nevertheless also ridden in a collected canter, with a fully-seated upright rider, and contact on the reins. Because they need the instant maneuverability. If there were an advantage to these riders to being out of the saddle, they would be, but their butts and posture are there to communicate with their horse and keep the weight shifted back and the horse light in front. Dressage has its roots in this type of riding.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The problem with starting one's riding with dressage is that the techniques taught are meant for a skilled rider on a trained horse. For example, the dressage seat works well on a collected horse. But that same seat is behind the horse when a horse is not collected. A sitting trot results in higher peak impact pressures on the horse's back because the rider isn't using his legs to spread the impact over a longer period of time. Even when taking lessons, I found lesson horses perked up a lot when I used a half seat at the trot. A fluid sitting canter "_requires a degree of abdominal fitness, as well as correct position, relaxation and a good understanding of gait mechanics and how the horse's back moves_". I think that is well within the ability of riders with some experience. I can sit a canter fairly well. But my horses move more fluidly and will turn tighter - in half the space or less - if I use a half seat.


HubbysSweetheart said:


> ...she moved me to a horse that only a few ride because of his obstinate nature...He's definitely taught me alot about controling stubborn....To me the most beautiful thing is a rider and horse with such a trusting/supporting relationship that no tack is needed for safety, just used for comfort.


A horse with an "obstinate nature" has been taught that nature. A horse who anticipates pain or discomfort from obeying will often become "obstinate", not because he is stubborn but because he is reasonable. And a lot of lesson horses have good reason to expect pain to follow obedience. If we want to ride based on trust, we need to be trust-WORTHY. From the horse's perspective! If we can reduce peak pressures on the horse's back, shouldn't we? If we can reduce bit pressure in the mouth, shouldn't we? Why should we ask the horse to change his balance to match ours, if we can easily change our balance to match his?

Something to think about. But if you are happy with your instructor, HubbysSweetheart, that is fine too! Your instructor isn't wrong. I'm just offering a different perspective. Honestly? I suspect most riding instructors would disagree with me. And I'm just a backyard horse owner.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Two-point isn’t used in dressage but every dressage rider knows how to ride in two point.

I personally think that two point is an essential skill even for beginners. If something goes wrong, especially out on trails, they will have a much better chance staying on in two point. If they have to jump a log (or a ground pole), they’ll know how to.

I am with @bsms on learning how to canter in two point. I have no scientific backing - just my own experience. I was a very untalented adult beginner and I just couldn’t learn how to canter (for years, I am embarrassed to say). When I started doing it in two point it came together in a matter of months. Since OP is doing great, she might not need it but I think she ought to just to be on the safe side.


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## Amyrides (Sep 15, 2021)

HubbysSweetheart said:


> Thank you! Yes, keeping the canter up has been hard with him, working on it for sure! He is super stubborn and taught me alot. I'm getting better.
> Do dressage riders use two point? My trainer has never mentioned anything about it. 🤔🤷🏽‍♀️
> I guess I'll have to look that up. 👍🏻
> Everything I have read so far has talked about leaning forward as bad??
> ...


Leaning forward too much is bad, but in your video you are leaning way back, you want to be upright. And no two point is not for dressage, I didn’t realize you are doing dressage. For dressage you want to sit upright as much as possible with your heals down and your body fairly upright. Also confused at what discipline your barn teaches? You aren’t dressed for dressage?


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

ameliaboo10 said:


> Also confused at what discipline your barn teaches? You aren’t dressed for dressage?


I've been in dressage lessons for four of the last six years... and I'm never dressed for dressage. 😄


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## Cobweb2000 (Jul 16, 2021)

I think you are doing great. One thing that can be a little difficult as a 'newbie' is knowing what advice to listen to and which to filter out. Especially on social media. Your trainer should be your main person (if you trust him or her) and then you can sift through what other advice you will receive secondarily. You said you were having fun and that is a major component so keep at it


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## CallmeDior (Apr 26, 2021)

HubbysSweetheart said:


> Just started riding in May this year. It's been a dream of mine since childhood, but I had to wait until 36 to see it happen. 💕
> We live in a small town, this "barn" is our only option, they do things a bit differently and are quite laid back as to when you do what.
> The lady is older and varies from giving some good feedback, to saying very little during my lesson. I watch riding videos and try and learn what I can through those too.
> There's So much to focus on as a newbie! 😂 It didn't help that a few months in she moved me to a horse that only a few ride because of his obstinate nature 🤣 She never said why...
> ...



First of all how did you get to post your video like that? I can do the link... How do you do it so people can see it like that!!!! I want to be able to do that toooooooo!!! Share please!


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## Part-Boarder (Aug 17, 2019)

You’re making progress and sometimes you can reach a plateau before something clicks. Every time you are riding, you’re building more of a foundation. Also going slow at the beginning is good to get a more solid feel for positioning. I started off trotting and cantering and jumping and am now going back and refining my aids. The small things make a big difference. 

Some instructors are constantly critiquing, talking, suggesting and it can be really distracting/ frustrating. Having a suggestion and then time to work it through without getting more direction is great.


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