# Best bit for a horse with no brakes?



## Solon

Better training.

Go back to the ground and work on the whoa from there, then work your way back into the saddle.


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## RedRoan

I agree with Solon. 

My horse is hard to stop and after a long break I gotta go back to ground work to get him polished on his 'Whoa'.


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## LeahKathleen

Tried it. She "whoas" fine from the ground. Be it lunging, at liberty, in hand. She has no problem stopping while on the ground, both verbally and through contact. Under saddle she stops fine while walking and trotting. It's when we canter and gallop that she has trouble.

ETA: That's my first instinct too, is to go back to the ground. But on the ground she has complete respect, and does anything I ask. So I don't know what the problem is.


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## Spastic_Dove

Just work her more in a snaffle. My horse does the same thing. He will speed up and get unsteady at the lope. What has worked for me, is trying to ride a perfect circle. That or I will work on starting with a big circle, and making it smaller, then bigger again. It gets him listening to me. 
I would stay in a snaffle though and just work on various exercises, transistions, etc. 

How old is the horse and how long in work?


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## Solon

Then something isn't connecting with how you are telling her to 'whoa' from the saddle. You may be giving her conflicting messages.

What do you do when you ask her to stop?

Does she whoa when cantering on the lunge line?


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## RedRoan

Maybe after warming her up in the saddle you can make her run herself tired at a canter. Then after a bit of running she will listen to you better. It works for my horse, but my horse is notorious for being lazy. 

You can even probably use a wall (not a fenced one, but a wall that she can't jump) to help will stopping. (But of course have enough distance to tell her to stop, like fifty or forty feet ahead of time. Don't go charging at a wall and ten feet before it ask her to stop... but I am sure you already know that is pretty unsafe).


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## Solon

I let my horse run around the arena and get rid of that first bit of energy. Then he's focused on the riding.


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## mayfieldk

Training and muscle issue.

If you cannot stop your horse in a snaffle, then you are using force to MAKE her stop--no ands, ifs, or butts.

And if you have tried other bits, has it occurred to you that she may run through a 'stop' signal because she's afraid of the pain in her mouth? Many horses do this.

Stopping at the canter is hard on a horse--and hard for a horse when they don't have the proper muscles to do it. One classical dressage trainer said something to the effect of, 'you only have so many canter-to-halts in a horse. Use them wisely!'

Work on getting your horse to respond to a canter-to-trot transition, EASILY and gently. Then Canter-trot-walk. Then take the trot steps out slowly (over a course of a few weeks) until it's canter-to-walk. Then Canter-to-stop should be easy.

Don't be too hard on a horse--stopping on the lunge is a lot different then stopping with a rider, especially one that could be hindering the horse. Be careful, don't use too much hand, and praise often.

There is no reason to go to a bigger bit just to get a horse to stop.


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## LeahKathleen

She is 16. I've had her for 2 years now. She was a competition cutting horse at three, and then was made a brood mare after an injury. She is extremely fast.

I lunge her before we ride to let off some energy.

As for something not connecting in the saddle, I'm not doing anything different on her than I've ever done on any horse - I'm not leaning forward or asking her to go with my legs. I've had quite a few people watch us ride and asked them if it looks like I'm doing anything wrong, and they've all said no. She also has trouble stopping when others ride her, so I honestly don't feel like I'm asking her wrong. I feel as though she just wants to keep going, and the pressure from the bit isn't bothersome enough for her to yield to it.

And yes, on the lunge line she stops from a canter.

ETA: Mayfeild, I'm not necessarily talking about coming to a complete halt from a canter. I understand that that is very difficult for a horse. I'm simply talking about slowing. She has a tendency to delay response. It takes her too long to transition from a canter to a trot. Once she's trotting, she has no problem stopping. She -loves- to run.

I have also -never- used anything but a snaffle variation, with different length cheeks and that sort of thing. I've never used anything labeled "harsh" or "strong" - only "moderate" to "medium."

I guess my question should have been more clear.


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## JustDressageIt

mayfieldk said:


> Training and muscle issue.
> 
> If you cannot stop your horse in a snaffle, then you are using force to MAKE her stop--no ands, ifs, or butts.
> 
> And if you have tried other bits, has it occurred to you that she may run through a 'stop' signal because she's afraid of the pain in her mouth? Many horses do this.
> 
> Stopping at the canter is hard on a horse--and hard for a horse when they don't have the proper muscles to do it. One classical dressage trainer said something to the effect of, 'you only have so many canter-to-halts in a horse. Use them wisely!'
> 
> Work on getting your horse to respond to a canter-to-trot transition, EASILY and gently. Then Canter-trot-walk. Then take the trot steps out slowly (over a course of a few weeks) until it's canter-to-walk. Then Canter-to-stop should be easy.
> 
> Don't be too hard on a horse--stopping on the lunge is a lot different then stopping with a rider, especially one that could be hindering the horse. Be careful, don't use too much hand, and praise often.
> 
> *There is no reason to go to a bigger bit just to get a horse to stop*.


Love your posts, mayfield.


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## Spyder

LeahKathleen said:


> It takes her too long to transition from a canter to a trot. Once she's trotting, she has no problem stopping. She -loves- to run..


That tells me right away that she either does not understand the aids correctly or as Mayfieldk stated...""and hard for a horse when they don't have the proper muscles to do it""

This means you ensure the aids are correct...every time. If that is OK then the muscling is not there and she is running on her forehand because she does not have the power at the rear to act in a supportive way. Support = strength and the ability to go slower while maintaining a gait.

If she is being ridden in a snaffle I would turn her by closing the outside rein on her and opening the inside rein so the turn becomes sharper. This will make her have to re balance herself to make the turn and in order to do that she MUST slow down a bit....and THAT is when you apply a half halt to slow her down farther.


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## LeahKathleen

I wasn't asking for bigger, just different. 

I do appreciate the advice. I ask here because I know the people on this forum are smart. 

I just specifically asked for a bit because I have gone back to ground work, I have worked on everything I have been told to work on, she is medically sound, her teeth have been done. She has excellent, smooth transitions from walk to trot, trot to canter, walk to canter, trot to walk, trot to stop, and walk to stop. Her canter to trot transition is delayed longer than it should be.

But I'll take everything said into consideration. Thanks.


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## loosie

Hi,

Agree with what others have said, esp Mayfield. First & foremost, rule out pain. You said she's medically sound, teeth done, which is great. Also make sure her back & saddle aren't causing her discomfort. I would personally ditch the bit all together until you teach her to be responsive to you. I've had plenty of success 'retraining' many a confirmed 'problem child' by simply removing the implements of pain. Some actually don't even require further training - eliminating pain was all that it took.

Single joint snaffles can be extremely harsh when used forcefully. Any bit is harsh when used forcefully actually and many horses have problems with bits generally, regardless of how well they may be used & fitted. See Dr Cook's site for more info on possible issues.

I do not use a bit of any kind on a horse before it's well enough trained that it wasn't needed forcefully for control.


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## kitten_Val

LeahKathleen said:


> Tried it. She "whoas" fine from the ground. Be it lunging, at liberty, in hand. She has no problem stopping while on the ground, both verbally and through contact. Under saddle she stops fine while walking and trotting. It's when we canter and gallop that she has trouble.


My horse is like that too. She's very slow on ground and does have a perfect "whoa", but as long as I'm in saddle she's getting all excited and quick as a bolt. 

I'm not sure bit is a way to go. I agree with other posters about the transitions. You can also do smaller circle so she'll be more controlled.


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## luvs2ride1979

LeahKathleen said:


> One of my mares is a bit hard to stop.
> 
> I have tried a thousand bits on her - she just loves to go. I don't know if it's a bit problem as much as a will problem - I just don't think she wants to stop once she starts going. She loves to run.
> 
> And ideas on a western bit that might make stopping her a bit easier?
> 
> Thanks.


I agree, first I would rule out pain. I would have an equine chiropractor out to check her back and your saddle fit and placement. A sore back or slightly ill fitting saddle can make a horse "spooky" or hard to handle.

Ideally, you want better training, not a bigger bit. If you can afford it, I would find a good all-around trainer that can give you lessons and help worth with you both at the same time. You need to learn to use more than just your hands to stop, and re-sensitize your mare to the bit and your cues in general.

If money is a factor (and isn't it to all of us! lol), then I would try one of the following bits (as well as getting some training books and/or videos and try to work on it yourself).

You need to neck rein with these:
Schneider Saddlery
Reinsman Billy Allen Reiner Bit

You can do some minor direct reining with these (light pull with either hand to turn):
Good Water Argentine Bit by Partrade
Equine Supplies at Jeffers Equine: Horse Supply, Horse Supplies, Horse Vaccines, Discount Horse Supply, Discount Horse Supplies, Horse Product, Equine Product, Equine Supply, Horse Care Product, Tack Supplies, and Equestrian Supplies
Black Steel Training Snaffle Bit 5 Inch Mouth

Full direct reining is fine with these:
Schneider Saddlery
Schneider Saddlery
Myler Comfort Combo Hack
Equine Supplies at Jeffers Equine: Horse Supply, Horse Supplies, Horse Vaccines, Discount Horse Supply, Discount Horse Supplies, Horse Product, Equine Product, Equine Supply, Horse Care Product, Tack Supplies, and Equestrian Supplies


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## luvs2ride1979

> I just specifically asked for a bit because I have gone back to ground work, I have worked on everything I have been told to work on, she is medically sound, her teeth have been done. She has excellent, smooth transitions from walk to trot, trot to canter, walk to canter, trot to walk, trot to stop, and walk to stop. Her canter to trot transition is delayed longer than it should be.


I would also look closely at her diet. Diet plays a LARGE role in horse behavior. What is she eating exactly and how much? Grain? Hay? Supplements?


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## LeahKathleen

luvs2ride1979 said:


> I agree, first I would rule out pain. I would have an equine chiropractor out to check her back and your saddle fit and placement. A sore back or slightly ill fitting saddle can make a horse "spooky" or hard to handle.
> 
> Ideally, you want better training, not a bigger bit. You need to learn to use more than just your hands to stop, and re-sensitize your mare to the bit and your cues in general.



I ruled out pain issues before posting this. She has been checked for saddle fit. 

I wasn't asking for "bigger" or "harsher," simply different, something that feels a bit different in her mouth. I haven't had luck with my usual methods of dealing with problems like this - most horses indeed need work on the ground, have a pain issue, or something else. In my experience, different horses like different things - some just respond better to a different type of bit. I was just hoping someone with a horse similar to mine had found a bit that their horse liked and that worked for them.

Anyway, thank you for the bit suggestions.


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## Joshie

What does your trainer advise?


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## LeahKathleen

I'm not working with a trainer at the moment. However, I've spoken with several at our equestrian center regarding this issue, and was essentially told to rule out pain, go back to the ground, and evaluate my cues, and if everything checked out ok, which it did, to try some different bits and see what she liked best. I have had no luck. Which led me to my question.


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## Joshie

LeahKathleen said:


> I'm not working with a trainer at the moment. However, I've spoken with several at our equestrian center regarding this issue, and was essentially told to rule out pain, go back to the ground, and evaluate my cues, and if everything checked out ok, which it did, to try some different bits and see what she liked best. I have had no luck. Which led me to my question.


The bit is not your problem. You need to work with this horse with an experienced trainer. This problem will worsen if you don't work with an experienced trainer.


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## LeahKathleen

A trainer is not within my budget at the moment, and the problem has not worsened in the year and a half I've owned her. 

In any case, I've taken everything said here into consideration. Thanks to those who have replied.


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## Joshie

LeahKathleen said:


> A trainer is not within my budget at the moment, and the problem has not worsened in the year and a half I've owned her.


I'd have to disagree with this. It has worsened. It might not have worsened in intensity but this behavior is going to be more difficult to change because it's been allowed to continue for this long. It IS worse when a bad behavior becomes the norm.

This behavior is dangerous and people could be hurt. Maybe you should find a cheaper horse or ask for trainer lessons as a Christmas/birthday, etc. gift.


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## luvs2ride1979

You never answered my question. What exactly is she eating? Hay? Grain? Supplements? Spring Pasture?


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## Cat

I agree, it sounds like a training issue. It needs to be hanled with ground work and then under saddle - first mastering the a good solid whoa at the walk (you should be able to do this 100% with your seat - no reins for it to be a solid whoa), then the trot, then the canter. If you don't have the know-how to do it, then you really should get a trainer.


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## LeahKathleen

Joshie said:


> I'd have to disagree with this. It has worsened. It might not have worsened in intensity but this behavior is going to be more difficult to change because it's been allowed to continue for this long. It IS worse when a bad behavior becomes the norm.
> 
> This behavior could be dangerous. Maybe you should find a cheaper horse or ask for trainer lessons as a Christmas/birthday, etc. gift.


I don't understand what you mean by a cheaper horse. The horse belongs to me already.

If you read all the posts, I'm not talking about her "running away with me" or anything like that. She _stops _just fine. She just has a delay when it comes to the canter to trot transition. _I realize now that my question should have been worded differently._

I agree that bad behavior should not be allowed to continue - when I said "worsened" I meant in intensity. She is an excellent horse, with this being her only issue. It is something I have tried just about everything to fix.

I also don't have anyone whom I would ask to pay for a trainer. I'm on my own in this.

Anyway, everything that has been posted has been read, and I will certainly keep it all in mind as I continue to work with her. Thanks again to those who have posted and made helpful suggestions.


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## LeahKathleen

Cat said:


> I agree, it sounds like a training issue. It needs to be hanled with ground work and then under saddle - first mastering the a good solid whoa at the walk (you should be able to do this 100% with your seat - no reins for it to be a solid whoa), then the trot, then the canter. If you don't have the know-how to do it, then you really should get a trainer.


If you read, her ground work is fine. She "whoas" just fine from the ground, at the walk, trot, and canter. Under saddle, she "whoas" (completely through my seat) at the walk and trot. The canter is where we have trouble. Again, I'm not talking about halting. 

Please read through the thread. I really am not trying to be rude, honestly, I am _very grateful_ for the suggestions and tips I've been given. But the same thing has been said several times over.

*Thank you all for your comments, suggestions, and tips. They will be tried (again.)*


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## wild_spot

Wow, I think your getting a bit of a harsh time on this thread!!!

Kudos to you for going back to the ground, and checking out every possible issue.

I had a horse similar, but not the same. He was amazingly strong, and had a great stop, but not a very good slow down. His main problem was slowing his canter, to the point it was walking speed, before dropping back to a trot. In his case, I found the more leg I used on him, and the more I pushed him with my seat, the more he rocked back on his haunches and actually steadied and relaxed.

I tried many different bits (all snaffles) on him, until I found one he liked. I had my success with a Myler bit. It was a Myler low port comfort snaffle. he reacted well to having the extra tongue relief. It was this bit, without the hooks (holes to attatch the reins for leverage)










(sorry about the size!)

The myler bits are expensive, and a lot of horses don't need them, but if it works for your horse they are worth it.

Let me know if you want anymore information, etc.

By the way, I haven't had a trainer in about 8 years, and i'm doing fine :] I understand not being able to have a trainer, wether it be cost, location, etc.


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## LeahKathleen

Thank you, so much for your help wild_spot. I will definitely be looking into a Mylar bit. :]

Also, sorry luvstoride, somehow I jumped over your post. She's eating Horseman's Edge 12% pellet, one scoop in the morning and one at night with her MSM supplement. They have 24 hour turnout with 24 hour access to their stalls, and they get hay at night. It's the same thing she's been fed since I've had her, save cut backs/increases depending on the season and how much she's working.


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## MIEventer

I have nothing but great things to say about Myler Bits


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## Lizz

wow......


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## luvs2ride1979

LeahKathleen said:


> I don't understand what you mean by a cheaper horse. The horse belongs to me already.
> 
> If you read all the posts, I'm not talking about her "running away with me" or anything like that. She _stops _just fine. She just has a delay when it comes to the canter to trot transition. _I realize now that my question should have been worded differently._
> 
> I agree that bad behavior should not be allowed to continue - when I said "worsened" I meant in intensity. She is an excellent horse, with this being her only issue. It is something I have tried just about everything to fix.
> 
> I also don't have anyone whom I would ask to pay for a trainer. I'm on my own in this.
> 
> Anyway, everything that has been posted has been read, and I will certainly keep it all in mind as I continue to work with her. Thanks again to those who have posted and made helpful suggestions.


Canter to trot transitions require a lot of balance. It could be that she is not balanced enough before and during the transition, or you may be changing your position slightly during the transition, effecting her balance. 

Does she canter to trot nicely on the lunge line? If not, I would put some side reins on her and work her that way for 10 minutes or so before each ride, really drilling those transitions until she's "got it". Once she's got them nicely on the line, try again under saddle.

To help increase her balance and strength, work her over poles and on the trail, over varying terrain, at the trot. Be sure she's round through her back, really pushing from behind. When doing pattern work at the trot, be sure to always lift your inside rein and weight your outside stirrup or seat bone a little more around curves or changes of direction, to help balance her. Keep her trot "marching", so you really feel that hind end work and her back come up under your seat. Remember at all times to keep your shoulders back, LOOK UP, relax your back, hips, and arms, breathe, and LOOK UP. Looking down at her or the ground in front of you will throw your weight off in the saddle, which can unbalance a horse.


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## CJ82Sky

MIEventer said:


> I have nothing but great things to say about Myler Bits


Yeah...neither does my TB who realized it = no brakes (myler baby comfort snaffle...baaad choice for an experienced show jumper) and went hee hee....and ignored seat and jumped an extra 4 jumps on course before deciding we were done. I actually pulled my ab muscles that day I was using my body so much and he just went wheeee! Sure we LOOKED lovely, nice tempo, speed, etc. (he didn't bolt), I just didn't have any say over when the course was done lol! We went back to his mullen pelham and now we're both happy campers! 

In all reality though they are great bits. 

To the OP - sometimes I've found that going milder helps with bits, b/c then the horse will listen better. The other thing that works wonders is working on transitions. Do exercises where you go from trot to walk and trot to halt and halt to trot, etc. Add in canter ONLY after your horse has mastered 3 strides of a gait between transitions using just w/t/halt to start. From there add in canter. This exercises works great in that it will teach the horse to listen to your cues under saddle as well as build the proper muscling to keep the horse off the fore - something they need in order to be able to execute a downward transition in good time with the rider's cues. 

As the horse builds more muscle at the exercise w/o canter, you're also preparing for a better, cleaner canter because as I'm sure everyone in here has heard me say - you don't get better canter by doing more canter. You get a better canter by doing more and better trot work. Horse build the muscles they need for balance primarily at the trot rather than at the canter so the benefits of the exercise are really twofold - frist conditioning and then cues, that together will make when you add in the canter, everything fall into place much more easily.

Please note that you can not rush the canter - do the exercise with just walk, trot, and halt as much/often for as long as necessary (no more than 30 - 60m per session based on your horse's fitness level but as long time wise - 1 week, 3 weeks, 2 months, etc.) for your horse to succesfully and easily transition after EVERY THREE STRIDES. By that I mean three strides trot, three strides walk, three strides trot, three counts halt, three strides walk, three strides trot, three strides walk, three counts halt, etc. You get the idea  Once they are good with that, progress to adding in canter - just once or twice per session - until that becomes easy as well and keep building from there!

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## xx chico

My pony likes to go fast too. I switched him to a happy mouth jointed full cheek, and it worked really well. Then that bit had to leave me (it wasn't mine, I borrowed it from a friend lol) so, I switched him to a copper roller d bit. It seems to work nicely 
I found he liked the happy mouth best though.

Happy mouth -










Copper roller -










Hope this helps!


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## LeahKathleen

Thanks everyone. :] Appreciate the tips, and I will keep you posted.


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## EternalSun

I think I understand your post and I'll put my input in:

I'm with the group who say stick with the original bit. If your horse is in shape and used to transitioning, (which I assume she is being 16 yo), I'd try the one rein stop. When your horse is cantering, lean back and say 'easy' (or whatever cue you use to ask her to slow back down to a trot). Give her two strides, and if she hasn't started to slow down and trot, use your one rein stop and pull her into a small circle. Keep her cantering in the small circles until she realizes she'd be more comfortable trotting them, which should be pretty quick. The great thing about the one rein stop is that it's difficult for them to move fast in a small circle and therefore they don't want to do it. Eventually your horse will associate ignoring your cues - performing tedious little tasks that are annoying. My horse is a very hot horse who also LOVES TO RUN (ex qh racehorse), and I use this technique all the time with him. It's been especially helpful with helping him keep an even speed at the trot and lope. I hope it works for you.


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## mls

Back to the first post - you mentioned she was trained as a cutting horse and then used as a broodmare. Cutting horses are trained to 'hunt' the stop. We lope (and lope and lope) until we ask for a whoa and it's a sit down, stop right now whoa.

Your mare could simply be hunting the stop but is not legged up and ready for it yet! Some days my horses will be ready to stop right off the bat and other days we need to do some lope work to clear the cobwebs before they are ready to get down to serious business.

While loping, play with your half halts. Your mare will respond to your seat.


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## MyBoyPuck

I don't ride western, so I do not fully understand the role that the bit plays in your discipline. However, I had an issue with a TB who wanted to resume his racing career while out on trails last year. I solved the problem with training, but none of it involved his mouth. For me, it was all in the other end. Coincidentally I use a Myler bit. It's about as tame as they come. 

Anyway, what I did to solve my problem was to teach him the one rein stop. If you are not familiar with it, the one rein stop involves sitting square, taking your leg aids off, dropping one rein and pulling the other up to your hip. It disengages the horse's hind end and makes it impossible for him to keep moving forward. In the ring, we started at the walk. He had it down in about 5 minutes. We then moved onto the trot. That took a little longer since it was harder for him to respond, but again he got it within a few tries. Also, since no horse likes to have his mouth pulled on, he would start to stop as soon as he felt me start reaching for the rein. Canter was the same thing. If anything, he got that one the quickest. As soon as he felt me reach for the rein, he was standing still. After that I started working them in sporadically to our regular training. I wanted him to understand that, at any time I choose, we were going to stop. From there I moved onto baiting him. By that I mean put him into a position where he wanted to take off. The split second he felt like he might take the bait, I'd shut him down and let him think about. It all paid off a month later when we went out with a QH and went for a brisk canter. All I had to do was threaten to pull on the rein and he stayed in the canter. 

I know it's easy to think mouth for control, but really it's all the other parts of the horse that gets it done. Please understand. At the canter and especially the gallop, the one rein stop can throw a horse off balance to the point where it can fall over. Please to not move about a trot until your walk and trot are perfect. good luck.


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## LeahKathleen

Thanks for the input everyone. The one rein stop works with her sometimes, but other times, she doesn't seem to care, and she'll lope in a small circle til she's blue in the face.

But I'll keep working her, and I'm going to try a couple of bits until I find one she likes, in addition to everything mentioned.


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## kershkova

i`d trie a snaffel with a roller and a curb chain or a trap


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## Supermane

Here are some I've used on my guy.

Happy Mouth Jointed Pelham from SmartPak Equine
or
Happy Mouth Shaped Mullen Pelham from SmartPak Equine
You have the option of using more if you need to, but you don't have to. Though, if you don't know how to correctly use it then you shouldn't.

Sweet Iron Eggbutt Snaffle Bit with Copper Inlay and Copper Sweeit Iron Snaffle Bits
Nice snaffle, may soften your horses mouth

EquiShopper - Everything for Horse and Rider - Pessoa 6-Side Whistle Mouth Loose
Definitely not a common bit, but I *love* this thing.

Waterford Mouth Dee Ring Bit: Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com
Waterfords are good if she leans on the bit and runs through. It applies even pressure through the mouth, but is flexible making it difficult to lean on.


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## LeahKathleen

Thank you so much Supermane! I will definitely look into those. I appreciate it. :]


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## Supermane

LeahKathleen said:


> Thank you so much Supermane! I will definitely look into those. I appreciate it. :]


I definitely understand wanting a different bit rather than a stronger one. My tb gets bored and needs his to be rotated every couple months. 

I also use slow twist on him, which many people on this board don't like, but he responds well in it and I have soft hands.


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## Reallyyy

Have you tried the wonder bit? I use that on one of my barrel horses whos only speed is go and really makes him slow down and listen too the cues i use too stop, slow down.


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## loosie

wild_spot said:


> Wow, I think your getting a bit of a harsh time on this thread!!!


I have not read anything on this thread that has been harsh, disrespectful or unfair. Perhaps you think it's harsh that the OP has asked for suggestions of a bit and received advice that it's a training/balance/pain(whatever, but not 'wrong bit') issue??

Only harsh thing I see is, ignorring the obvious and going for a 'quick fix' of a 'different' bit in this case is harsh on the poor horse. Yes, I realise that sounds rather flat, but that's the way it is when force & mechanics is chosen over other considerations for controlling an animal.

To the person who claimed their horse gets 'bored' by the same bit, I think that'd be a hilariously funny assumption to come to, if thoughts of more rational reasons for the horse's failure to respond didn't get in the way of the humour.

I realise this is JMO. I realise not everyone wants the same sort of relationship with their horse as I do. I happen to value my horse's willing partnership far & above over just riding & controlling them. I want them to enjoy the experience as much as I do. I look on them as a mate to have fun with, not an employee to work for me.


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## wild_spot

^ Loosie, I generally agree with your posts 100%. However this I don't.

Firstly - This thread is oooold. The most recent post except for the last two is from March 2009 - I daresay the issue has been resolved.

Secondly - I have NEVER stepped up to a harsher bit on any of my horses, and in no way think a bit is a shortcut that will replace good training and a healthy happy horse. I think I put more effort in that most into ensuring my horses are happy and healthy throughout their whole body, and ensuring the bit I use meets their needs, mouth conformation and personality. All the horses I ahve ever owned have gone in snaffles, including the strongest horse I ahve EVER ridden - I have no doubt others would have put an elevator or pelham in his mouth after the first ride. However I spent about a year finding a bit he was comfortable in and working from the ground up to teach him not to run through and lean on the bit but to rock back onto his hind and relax. And I was successful - he is now eventing with a young girl and doing CC in a snaffle.

I have never reccomended a harsher bit to anybody on this forum and never will. It is not what I believe in.

However - The OP made clear through successive posts that she HAS checked for pain, she has taken this horse back to basics, etc. She has done pretty much everything that was suggested, and when that was found out, about the only response was to 'get a trainer'. Being a rider who has never had the means to ride under a trainer and having to self-educate, I know very well how frustrating it can be. I simply offered my experience (Successful experience) with a similar horse and a bit that seemed to work for him. I also mentioned in my post that it was NOT the bit that did this, but the work I did with him IN the bit.

I believed the OP had been given a harsh time because it was clear to me, if not others, that she had been making every attempt to solve this issue the same way we all reccomend - Checking for pain, going back to basics, sticking with a snaffle and working on training, etc.


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## wild_spot

> Only harsh thing I see is, ignorring the obvious and going for a 'quick fix' of a 'different' bit in this case is harsh on the poor horse.


I also want to add that the OP never asked for a harsh bit - And also clarified later on that all the bits she has tried have been snaffles and she is intending on staying in a snaffle.


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## LeahKathleen

This has long since been resolved, you guys. 

I know I haven't been around much lately, but I just got an e-mail that someone had replied to this thread. This is incredibly old - well over a year, anyway.

Thanks for your input.

Lol.


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## Spastic_Dove

Awww Leah, look. This is where we met


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## LeahKathleen

I know, I think this is first thread you ever commented on of mine. Now look: BESTIES IRL!


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## loosie

wild_spot said:


> Firstly - This thread is oooold. The most recent post except for the last two is from March 2009 - I daresay the issue has been resolved.


Oh! Wondered why I didn't remember the thread! I just got an email that there was a reply, so went to thread without looking at dates!



> Secondly - I have NEVER stepped up to a harsher bit on any of my horses, and in no way think a bit is a shortcut that will replace good training and a healthy happy horse. I think I put more effort in that most into ensuring my horses are happy...


Not sure that you do disagree with me so much WS, or whether it was just the way I managed to put it:?. The subject is something that I(obviously:lol feel very strongly about, so perhaps came across that I was having a go at you &/or everyone, tho I tried to only say what I meant clearly without being particular(except about the 'bored of same bits' comment. I quoted that bit from you WS because, as I said, I didn't understand what you thought was harsh, especially as I had an idea that you have similar opinions to me on the matter. I wasn't in the least picking on you. Or OP for that matter, just trying to emphasise an alternative attitude/opinion.



> I have never reccomended a harsher bit to anybody on this forum and never will. ...However - The OP made clear through successive posts that she HAS checked for pain, she has taken this horse back to basics, etc. ..... Being a rider who has never had the means to ride under a trainer and having to self-educate,...


Yes, I realise you wouldn't suggest a 'harsher' bit & that the OP didn't literally ask for this either. But the reason for her questions illustrated that she wanted a device to stop her horse instantly, as the existing bit didn't. That to me says that regardless what she imagines, what she's really asking for is a stronger bit. So my post was attempting to emphasise the need for continuing to look for better alternatives & not settling for mechanics.

I appreciate she was given (some, but)little good advice & had tried lots already. I should have acknowledged what she had done so far, which I agree was good. Sorry OP! I am also one who has had very little opportunity/means to get help from professionals, so appreciate that may be a lack of option.

Anyway, hope that's made it a little clearer than mud! As this is also old hat, I sincerely hope you've now resolved the problems well OP and are onto a good thing with your horse, whether you have a similar opinion to me or not


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## LeahKathleen

"But the reason for her questions illustrated that she wanted a device to stop her horse instantly, as the existing bit didn't. That to me says that regardless what she imagines, what she's really asking for is a stronger bit."

While I appreciate the apology, sometimes it's best not to jump to conclusions. In my time that I spent on the forum, I think that I proved myself fairly knowledgeable about horses. I didn't say a stronger bit, nor is that what I switched to - we ended up in a frenk-link with copper rollers to distribute my cues a little more evenly, and to keep her attention/give her something to do with the rollers. It worked, no thanks to this thread.  I ended up just buying every snaffle I could find in her size and seeing what she liked best.

To me, switching bits isn't "settling for mechanics" - on a bit-trained horse, a bit is a necessary piece of equipment. I wouldn't want to listen either if I hated/was bored with/wasn't understand the cues from my bit.

Anyway, this thread is pretty well over, but I think if you're going to offer advice, it's better to ask questions ("Have you checked for pain? If you have ruled out everything else, try [insert bit that has worked for you here.]") than to assume that someone hasn't tried everything before asking for help.

That's just how I feel about it, I guess.

Anywho - Daisy's fine now, if anyone was wondering.


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## Cindy Z

I read your posts about having difficulty stopping your horse and had to sign up immediately!! I have a wonderful 5 yrd old mare I have had since she was a baby. Most of her training has been done by me but I have had her with two "real" trainers when she was younger. She has always been fast, REALLY fast, in the gallop. She seems to have never acquired a 3rd gear (i.e. no canter/lope). I didn't mind her speed so much until the last few months. She is boarded somewhere new now where there is great room to run in open spots between trails. She just loves it!! But getting her to stop is a task!! I have read all your posts, the responses, and I feel like I am in your boat. Have tried everything. Like you, ground manners very good, great in round pen. Can W/T/C fine in round pen. Listens to whoa. Not a problem. The minute we get out in the open, she completely tunes it out. I have even had someone else ride her recently who is a great horseman (and much larger/stronger than me). He had an awful time getting her stopped. Her bit is a snaffle..same one she's had and done fine with for years. I am at my wits end with her!!


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