# Loaned money for emergency vet care - denied repayment



## threehorses (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and have a sticky and icky situation that I've fallen into. I was in the process of buying a mare, hadn't bought her yet, and was boarding her at a stable. The day before I paid for her, I got a phone call saying my mare escaped her stall, teased a stallion, the stallion broke down his stall door and then broke down a gelding's stall door and completely savaged a gelding. My (pending) mare was unhurt, the gelding was down, and another boarder was calling me for help.

I got down there to find the little gelding in extreme white-gummed shock, laying down, and with a lot of lost blood with what looked like a mountain-lion's bite on his neck (from the stallion). The owner wasn't coming down even though he knew about the horse, hadn't called a vet, and wasn't going to. The horse was in terrible condition to start with - had just showed up at the barn the day before, a 3 condition with old wounds and looked like he wanted to die.

I got the horse up, washed the wounds, assessed the situation, and found a vet that would come out if the owner wanted. He did nothing. I got an idea and offered to the owner, on the phone, to LOAN him the money so that he could have a vet come out, give the horse banamine, treat the wounds, etc. I said that he could pay me back in cash, or maybe we could work something out to where he could work some of it off if he wanted as well. I offered that as an option to him - since he was doing nothing. He agreed to those terms. 

I called the vet who then spoke to the owner who agreed to the care and talked with the vet about how much care, etc. The vet came out and saw this neglected horse who had one shoe hanging on the front, one on the back, overgrown hooves, and some hoodie from a jacket around his neck covering an old untreated wound. He was upset, I was upset about this horse - but he treated it and gave me medicines and things to treat the horse and give the owner.

On the invoice, he stated the treatment of the horse and wrote that I was paying the bill that day with expectations of being paid back. He said he wrote that on the invoice to protect me, and he reduced the bill by over $100 because "YOU are doing the right thing for this horse - this is for you, not the owner". 

I asked advice on what to do about the other horses and this horse at the barn which should have had the SPCA called on them - they're that bad. I explained I was trying to educate one of the owners who had 2 horses, but this would be a 3rd one - and what were my options? He said that it would be hard to get the SPCA or animal control to do anything if the horses had minimal care: hay and water, which they did at that time. He said I did have that option however if they didn't start doing better. I thanked him for his advice. I think and I both thought that maybe they would do better - since they HAD to. We were both wrong.

After the vet left, the owner came down that night and sprayed the horse's wounds. I said that I would give the first few days of medicine and treat the wound for those three days and that he could start when the bute meds started. I gave him instructions to check the wound when he came each evening and spray the horse for flies and wash where the surgical drain would be draining serum and gunk to keep the horse clean. I also explained that we put him in a clean stall and his stall needed to be clean as the wound was on the neck and was hard to bandage.

Day one went great. Day 2-3 I cared for the wound so it was wonderful. Day 4, I gave the first dose of bute and left it at the tack room. I explained how to care for the wound from this point out and he had a copy of the care instructions and invoice. 

He stopped caring for the wound and stopped cleaning the stall. He stopped feeding the horse and eventually stopped showing up. He did show up one day and whined "can't we stitch this wound up or something?" the day after I removed the surgical drain. I explained that the vet did all the stitching that was safe, that the wound had to drain til it was healed.

The wound became so infected that you could smell it from 3 feet away. his cousin came once and cleaned the wound and pushed the crap in the stall to one side - but then left the rake in the stall, tines up, and that was that for a few days.

I gave in and started taking the horse out to clean it myself. I called the owner to talk to him but he didn't show up. I set another date to talk to him but he didn't show up. I found the horse with a filthy stall again, no hay, and this time no water. I cleaned the stall, watered the horse, gave him some of our feed, and that night I spent an hour cleaning that horse's wound while the owner's father ate bbq at a party at the barn. Again the owner stood me up.

The next day I caught him at the barn. I told him we needed to talk. I told him the horse deserved feed and water, and HAD to have medical care daily. I explained that the wound had worsened. He had never yet offered to pay me anything and it was 2 weeks since the bill was paid. I explained he still had the option of paying it all, paying part of it and working part of it off, or - given the added care the horse would now need and the scarring - that he also had the option of relinquishing the horse to me to dissolve the vet bills. I explained that I would care for the horse for the rest of his life even if he wasn't ridable, he'd be a pasture companion - it was an option. He never said anything except "I'll think about that - I was thinking of buying that other horse" (another horse at the barn).

I asked him to go ahead and at this point just let me take care of the wound, and he would feed the horse - because I had reversed the infection and wanted to see it heal completely - we were so close. I reminded him that legally horses must have water and some food available daily and that if someone knew about his horse, the HSPCA could very well seize him. I reminded him that the vet knew about the horse's condition before and now and that it would be in his best interest to feed the horse daily and make sure his wound was tended.

He agreed. Yet, he came down for the next two days and sprayed different medicines on the wound - didn't clean them, just covered them with purple "because I can see the purple". I cleaned the purple and the dirt/crap out of the wounds and retreated them cleanly and covered them with polo bandages. The wound was 1 day short of being closed and then the owner locked the horse's stall and disappeared. This was 3 days ago.

Today I called to talk to the owner about paying this bill that he has yet to mention. When I did, he said he might pay some... I said that well, it doesn't really work like that, and I was in the process of moving the mare and I'd like to talk to him about paying. He said that he wasn't going to pay the bill because my mare caused the injuries.

I reminded him that the stallion caused the injuries, that my horse did nothing to his horse, and that i was not the owner of the stallion. He said "Yeah well - your horse started it!" I reminded him that while he was MIA, I was the one down there paying for more sprays, spending hours on the wound's care, doing some pretty gross stuff, and at one point giving the horse feed and water because he couldn't be bothered. I asked what I had done to him to cause him to decide now not to pay. He had agreed when I called to paying the entire thing back. He said "you said I could work some of it off". I reminded him "yes, and in the last 21 days you've made absolutely no effort to do anything at all towards that end and you still owe me the $360 vet bill.

He refuses to pay, said I could get a lawyer if I wanted, but that I owe him because my mare got out. I told him that I most certainly would because his word to me was that he agreed to the terms, and this was the first time he was backing out. 

So now I'm stuck.

I know that with boarders, if you incur a debt that you have to wait for 60 days while you ask it to be paid. I know that in Texas at that point you can write a letter saying "you have 10 days". At the end of 10 days, you are allowed to take the horse if the debt is not paid without a public notice - or so I've read for Texas law. But what about this situation?

The vet is willing to go to court for me to stand up and testify to the animal's beneath-legal condition and even old untreated wounds. He also was kind enough that time to write ON the invoice that he was treating because the owner and I both knew that the owner agreed to paying back the bill.

The thing is - the stallion's owner is my dear friend. He's even offered to pay some of the bill because i was upset (and crying). I refused, but I know that if anyone has liability it is the stallion owner, not me. I technically didn't even own the mare until the very next day when I purchased her; I was just caring for her.

Does anyone have any advice other than of course contacting an equine lawyer? Has anyone been in this situation? I'm already out over $500 for the vet bill, the added medicines, the gauzes and iodine and other things I had to buy to re-clean the infected wound so that it wouldn't go systemic, much less my time.

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated.


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## threehorses (Aug 20, 2012)

As if that weren't long enough :lol: I forgot to add that some "well meaning" person about halfway through, the day I was to remove the drain tub, dumped a package of hydrated lime on the wound. Ugh. I had to call the vet to ask "what do I do with this? Pull the drain anyway?" Talk about nasty. it burned the horse's skin off. That's when I had enough. Thanks again!


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Do you have a contract in writing where he agrees to pay you? If you don't have anything in writing signed by him, you have a very, very slim chance of recovering any $$. 

I'm not saying you aren't right, I'm just saying that without a signed, written agreement it's going to be next to impossible to get a judge to listen to "he said, she said" and find in your favor.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Whew. What a saga. First-the SPCA should be involved. I cannot believe you stay at this place, but, if you continue to, I would guess you will end up a lot more out of pocket, since obviously the BO and some of the owners do not care. 

Legally-I doubt there is anything you can do. You have no proof, from what I read, that this idiot agreed to pay you back. It will turn out to be your word against his. I am afraid you have done a really good thing for this horse, but it will end up being a donation. Sorry, but true. Pleas get the SPCA involed-especially if there are others at this place who are in need.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Where are you from ThreeHorses (as in country)?


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## KarrotKreek (Mar 31, 2012)

Ok, verbal contracts are hard to enforce... but they are contracts if you can prove them. The vet spoke to the owner prior to the treatment and can witness the agreement as well as recorded it on the bill. So you have a leg to stand on. Will it still be a finger pointing mess? Sure.

Your BO should really be involved in this... Neglect on their property under their watch is an issue. However it sounds like the resolution would likely just be to kick the horses out since the owner is unresponsive.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

seriously it doesnt seem like you even have a verbal contract. He basically said sure whatever on the phone after repeated calls. Legally about all you could do was report the neglect or pay the bill yourself. WHat does the barn owner have to say about this. WHy does he/she even allow a boarder like this ?


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If the owner is not interested in this horse, maybe he would give him to you. Then if you get him well, you could sell him. Maybe? You might recoup some of your money.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

If I had "loaned" money in an instance like that I wouldn't expect to get it back. Not that you SHOULDN'T get it back, but I highly doubt this sleaze bag will ever pay you. 

I would do what Celeste suggests and offer to take the gelding in exchange for your payment of the vet bill and the care you've already provided. In the very least, it gets the horse out of a horrible situation. 

If he turns you down, use that vet's testimony to the SPCA... refusing to provide adequate veterinary care is cause for pressing charges/removal of an animal in most states.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

The OP _already_ offered to take the horse in lieu of payment, y'all. The owner said 'he'd think about it', but obviously nothing came of it.

OP, if the vet is willing to go to bat for you and overheard your end of the phone conversation with the owner about repaying you the money, you may have a chance of recovering some of it. Since it's small claims court, you won't really need an attorney.

I do wonder why you're keeping your animal in such an obvious hell-hole, though.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> The OP _already_ offered to take the horse in lieu of payment, y'all. The owner said 'he'd think about it', but obviously nothing came of it.


Sorry, missed that. I would press the issue, then, and threaten to get the authorities involved. It's unlikely they would do anything... but maybe the idiot owner doesn't know that and would just relinquish the horse.



> I do wonder why you're keeping your animal in such an obvious hell-hole, though.


I was under the impression that she was purchasing the horse from said hellhole.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

nikelodeon79 said:


> I was under the impression that she was purchasing the horse from said hellhole.


Nope, read her second sentence, first paragraph. She stated SHE was boarding the horse at this particular barn.

Regardless of the opinion of a now-banned poster about people having poor reading comprehension, I think mine is pretty good. :wink:

It would be better for everyone concerned if the owner turned the horse over to the OP, instead of her having to take him to court. The horse for sure would be happier with someone who actually cared about him.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Nope, read her second sentence, first paragraph. She stated SHE was boarding the horse at this particular barn.
> 
> Regardless of the opinion of a now-banned poster about people having poor reading comprehension, I think mine is pretty good. :wink:


AAAH okay. I fully admit to quickly scanning posts (when I'm supposed to be working... shhh don't tell!!!!) and likely missing a few details. :wink:


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

nikelodeon79 said:


> AAAH okay. I fully admit to quickly scanning posts (when I'm supposed to be working... shhh don't tell!!!!) and likely missing a few details. :wink:


I think we've all done the same thing at times.


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## ozarkmama (Jun 20, 2009)

take what you have and see an attorney for advise. Most do not charge for the initial consultation. It might be that they can draft a letter for a small fee, sometimes that is all it takes to scare people into paying. Good luck!


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## Breella (May 26, 2012)

Hoping to learn how this all goes.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

The person that owns the stallion should be paying the bill. The stallion did the damage and if the place isn't sturdy enough to keep horses in and out then there are other problems.

Obviously the guy can't afford the care of the gelding and wqas put ion a position and really didn't have a choice.

Years ago a stallion broke out and hurt my gelding and the stallion owners paid the bill. That doesn't sound like a good place to board a horse.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

churumbeque said:


> The person that owns the stallion should be paying the bill. The stallion did the damage and if the place isn't sturdy enough to keep horses in and out then there are other problems.
> 
> Obviously the guy can't afford the care of the gelding and wqas put ion a position and really didn't have a choice.
> 
> Years ago a stallion broke out and hurt my gelding and the stallion owners paid the bill. That doesn't sound like a good place to board a horse.


It's the choice of a horse owner to board at any given facility. ANY horse can cause injuries to another horse. Stallions add to that possibility.

Why should the stallion owner be held accountable?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

What an absolute mess. First, you need to get your mare out of there and into a better place. 

Second you need to call animal control or whoever deals with that in your area. 

Third, reconfirm with your vet that he is willing to go to court with you - if so, file a claim at small claims court.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

mls said:


> It's the choice of a horse owner to board at any given facility. ANY horse can cause injuries to another horse. Stallions add to that possibility.
> 
> Why should the stallion owner be held accountable?


that would be the same as saying if a dog gets loose and attacks another dog that dog owners not responsible . it is the owners responsibility to keep the horse confined it so that it cant injure anyone else . if it had been a gelding it would not have went after the other gelding like that . that is what gives stallions a bad name a lot of people won't board a stallion . if you choose to send your kids to school and other kid hurts him he's not responsible becaus. e you chose to send your kid there ?


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

churumbeque said:


> that would be the same as saying if a dog gets loose and attacks another dog that dog owners not responsible . it is the owners responsibility to keep the horse confined it so that it cant injure anyone else . if it had been a gelding it would not have went after the other gelding like that . that is what gives stallions a bad name a lot of people won't board a stallion . if you choose to send your kids to school and other kid hurts him he's not responsible becaus. e you chose to send your kid there ?


 
they were in a public barn if i am not mistaken... that means the bo is liable for the horses getting loose seeing as the boarders pay to have them keep there horse safe. which in either case is not happening because we have neglected animals and animals getting loose there... 

out of pure niceness and etiquette the stallion owner could contribute to covering som/all of the bill but they are not required to. the stallion owner pays for his horse to have a stall that will contain him and if he got out after being secured in there i would think thats a bo's liability. 

same for dogs if my dog was at a kennel and injured another dog that is the fault of the kennel not me. my dog was under the supervision of someone else. if i wanted to be considerate i would offer to pay atleast some of the costs but i would hold the kennel responisble for not watching my pet better under there care. 

if the pet however was under my direct care and injured another then yes being owner i would be totally responisble to cover all costs. 

as for kids hurting another kid while at school.. firstly i would be ticked at the parents for having an overly aggressive/spoiled child and ticked the school for not providing a safe environment for my child to learn when i pay taxes/tuition to send them there. 
just my 2cents on it :?


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

You are right. Ultimately, the barn owner is most likely liable. The owner of the injured horse may decide to take the BO to court.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

kait18 said:


> they were in a public barn if i am not mistaken... that means the bo is liable for the horses getting loose seeing as the boarders pay to have them keep there horse safe. which in either case is not happening because we have neglected animals and animals getting loose there...
> 
> out of pure niceness and etiquette the stallion owner could contribute to covering som/all of the bill but they are not required to. the stallion owner pays for his horse to have a stall that will contain him and if he got out after being secured in there i would think thats a bo's liability.
> 
> ...


So what is the difference between an aggressive child or an aggressive horse? Every one paid board to be there expecting their animals to be safe. Obviously this place is not safe and sturdy but the stallion owner chose to keep it in a place that couldn't contain it. If it had not been a stallion it would not have gone after the other horse.

I would think the poor condition of the stalls would be visible to everyone. Seems like 3 stalls of the 3 horses weren't strong enough but every one chose to keep their horses there.

If you took your dog to a kennel and you didn't do anything wrong you wouldn't pay the vet bill. I agree the stable owner should shoulder the expense also but not the horse owner that had his horse contained.

My bet is this is a stallion that should be a gelding and the next thread will be "could my mare be pregnant?"


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

churumbeque said:


> So what is the difference between an aggressive child or an aggressive horse? Every one paid board to be there expecting their animals to be safe. Obviously this place is not safe and sturdy but the stallion owner chose to keep it in a place that couldn't contain it. If it had not been a stallion it would not have gone after the other horse.
> 
> I would think the poor condition of the stalls would be visible to everyone. Seems like 3 stalls of the 3 horses weren't strong enough but every one chose to keep their horses there.
> 
> ...


i agree the owner shouldn't have to pay for all of it but if you were a concerned owner you would have. the op doesn't even own the horse and cares more about it then the owner... 

as for it being a stallion as to why it attacked the gelding... in this case it was but i think thats a bit crazy to think stallions are the only ones that attack other horses and break stalls and/fences to get at another. in this scenario i think the bo is to blame completely. he willing took in a stallion without proper facilities and took in and has neglected horses on his property and it seems he/she is not doing anything about it to keep the animals safe and healthy. 

but oh boy do i agree with you about the i think my horse is pregnant thread that will start if the op stays at this place or if her stallion friend owners doesnt geld there horse. 

just a sad situation all around poor ownership by the geldings owner, negligence from the barn owner and staff, and poor op for actually having a heart and trying to do righ tby the animal.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

The injured gelding's owner should have paid the bill initially and then asked the BO for reimbursement. Instead, if I understand the story correctly, he apparently planned to neglect the horse.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Yes, I agree with Celeste. He should have repaid the loan, as verbally agreed on the phone, and then talked to the bo for payment or partial payment. 

All I will say is that when someone shows/demonstrates that they are not trustworthy or honorable, take them at their word. He did this in how he treated his horses and how he conducted himself. Sadly, the OP is out of the cash, but way ahead in the good Karma department.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

kait18 said:


> i agree the owner shouldn't have to pay for all of it but if you were a concerned owner you would have. the op doesn't even own the horse and cares more about it then the owner...
> 
> as for it being a stallion as to why it attacked the gelding... in this case it was but i think thats a bit crazy to think stallions are the only ones that attack other horses and break stalls and/fences to get at another. in this scenario i think the bo is to blame completely. he willing took in a stallion without proper facilities and took in and has neglected horses on his property and it seems he/she is not doing anything about it to keep the animals safe and healthy.
> 
> ...



It is obvious that the owner cannot afford to care for the horse properly and does not have the money for the bill.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

churumbeque said:


> It is obvious that the owner cannot afford to care for the horse properly and does not have the money for the bill.


if thats the case then get rid of the horse... the op was willing to take the horse off his hands but he refused..and its not fair to the horse to suffer because this owner seems to think everything magically gets better..

i would have called animal control a long time ago and would have stopped treatment so that the animal could have been seized and hopefully rehomed or atleast pts to end its suffering that it will continue to incur staying with its current owner.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Why do people buy horses and keep horses if they cannot afford to take care of them?

Why do people open boarding facilities and charge people money to take care of their horses if they do not plan to make some effort at making that facility safe?

Why would a barn owner board a stallion if they did not have a stallion facility?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

churumbeque said:


> It is obvious that the owner cannot afford to care for the horse properly and does not have the money for the bill.


It's worse than not having the income, I think he doesn't care. Treating the horse after the vet was there would have cost very little and he couldn't even do that.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Celeste said:


> Why do people buy horses and keep horses if they cannot afford to take care of them?
> 
> Why do people open boarding facilities and charge people money to take care of their horses if they do not plan to make some effort at making that facility safe?
> 
> Why would a barn owner board a stallion if they did not have a stallion facility?


 I always ask myself "Why do people do the things they do?" all the time and the answer I come up with is "because they are idiots."


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

It seems like the gelding's owner has the responsibility to repay OP. He made a verbal contract to do so, which was witnessed and documented by the vet at the time of treatment. The gelding's owner also has every right to seek compensation from the BO (who should be carrying insurance for instances just like this).

The fact that the gelding's owner is a horrible horse owner has little bearing on the case, legally.

I'd take the case to small claims (which doesn't require a lawyer, though I'd certainly recommend consulting one first) seeking repayment in the form of cash or the horse. In my state, if you win the case, the defendant also has to pay your filing fees and a prevailing party fee, so it's much cheaper for them to settle out of court.


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

This sounds to me that the horse owner was pushed into this proposition. I'm not at all saying that your were wrong in helping this horse as it was a pretty **** noble thing to do; But to expect payment from a guy who OBVIOUSLY doesnt give two hoots about his horse (judging by old uncared for wounds , dirty stall and what not) was where you slipped up. 

Maybe instead of pushing him to let you pay, you could have pushed him to sign the horse over to you- it would have been much more of an appealing option at the time when the horse needed vet care- now the horse has seen a vet THAT HE DIDNT HAVE TO PAY FOR, while you are basically taking care of the horse- it almost seems to me hes waiting for you to make a money offer to get the horse away from him instead of just signing it over to you. 

If i were you, i would wash my hands of it (poor horse I KNOW), accept the fact that you DONATED money to a worthless human being.. and in a few days when the horse is standing in his own filth with a nasty infection- CALL THE SPCA (you are so lucky to have access to these people!!) and let them assess the situation, because it seems to me that you are enabling the situation to continue.

as for who is responsible for damages I think it would depend on boarding contract. When i boarded MY b/os had a clause, that while they kept the place safe and horsefriendly, they were NOT responsible for horses being horses and injuring themselves or others. If the place was that unkept and discusting, and you still decided to board there its kinda your fault as the horse owner that your horse hurt itself/someone elses horse.


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