# Pony Mix Conformation



## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

He is 13.1 hh, I think he is a Welsh/Rocky mountain mix.
What do you think of his conformation? Is his neck short?
I'm sorry I don't have very good pictures.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Only flaw that stands out to me as anything to make note of would be that he seems straighter than is ideal through the back legs, though without proper conformation shots, it's hard to say


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

Yes I would agree with you. I think his hocks are kind of low too.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

I don't have much to add to @lilruffian's statement, except that he's adorable!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, he seems a bit straight in the hind - look after those stifles & do exercises that are good for them & not much on a circle. And yes, his neck's a bit short... but so is his body & he's in proportion, so no worries there! Only real 'conformation fault' I see is that the saddle's a bit far forward, over his shoulderblades. And his bit is too tight - stretching his lips way up.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I like him....
He is in good proportion and no, his neck is not to short.
I don't think for a pony his hocks are to low either...
I also don't see such a bad hind leg set in the last picture.
Not the best pictures for a critique of his build though honestly...

He strikes me as a great pony, very tolerant and easy disposition....
A keeper!!
:runninghorse2:...


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If you look at the saddle and the way he is built, you can see why the saddle moves forward. 

His girth is forward of where the straps would hang straight, set the saddle further back (which it needs) and it will slide forward because of the 'girth groove'. 

Ideally he needs a saddle that has a girth strap set forward and the other set right back.


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

Yes, He has very narrow shoulders and low withers, so the saddle slides forward whenever I ride him. We are working on a solution. Maybe going to buy a crupper. 
Thank you guys for all your opinions on his conformation, even though I don't have proper conformation shots!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think he's a nice looking and reasonably well built horse/pony.

Consider dropping his bit a notch, or two. It looks like it is pulling up too high, and could be really annoying to him.


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

tinyliny said:


> I think he's a nice looking and reasonably well built horse/pony.
> 
> Consider dropping his bit a notch, or two. It looks like it is pulling up too high, and could be really annoying to him.



Thank you! 
Yes I see what you mean about the bit looking to tight. Weird though, because it is not actually that tight. I guess it just looks that way in the pics. I do know how to fit a bit to a horse, so I can assure you it is not as tight as it looks.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

A shoulder relief girth might be all you need, rather than fussing with a crupper. It changes the alignment of the billets with the girth groove so the saddle will want to stay further back where it should be. https://totalsaddlefit.com/shoulderreliefgirth/


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Banjo4blue said:


> Thank you!
> Yes I see what you mean about the bit looking to tight. Weird though, because it is not actually that tight. I guess it just looks that way in the pics. I do know how to fit a bit to a horse, so I can assure you it is not as tight as it looks.


Yeah, shouldn't be at all tight. Should just sit, comfortably. Of course, depends on tooth placement where it needs to be too tho, but the silly '3 wrinkles rule' is not sensible. No wrinkles is better if you can.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks for that tip SteadyOn - never heard of one of those & I have a pony who's saddle rides forward if not with a crupper too...


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

loosie said:


> Yeah, shouldn't be at all tight. Should just sit, comfortably. Of course, depends on tooth placement where it needs to be too tho, but the silly '3 wrinkles rule' is not sensible. No wrinkles is better if you can.


Three wrinkles? I've never heard that, that sounds way to tight.:-? I've only ever heard two wrinkles. And to be honest, if you have enough experience with bits, you'll probably just be able to use your knowledge to tell if its to loose, to tight, to wide...etc, instead of having to check how many wrinkles and things. Your horse will probably help you know too .


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

SteadyOn said:


> A shoulder relief girth might be all you need, rather than fussing with a crupper. It changes the alignment of the billets with the girth groove so the saddle will want to stay further back where it should be. https://totalsaddlefit.com/shoulderreliefgirth/


Thank you for sharing this. I have seen this before, but never considered one for my pony. If I can find one thats cheaper than the crupper I was going to buy, I'll give it a shot.:lol:


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

The shoulder relief girths show up used on ebay quite frequently. A friend swears by them and I'm considering one for my gelding.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

OMG! just looked on Ebay - how expensive!! Good thing I do leatherwork & have some handy to make my own...


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## Chaz80 (Sep 29, 2015)

hi
lovely pony you have but please can i make a suggestion?
looking at your pics it looks like you have a halflinger saddle or similar make/design....if i am wrong forgive me,
it looks just like the one i bought when i got my daughters pony,
please please as soon as money allows get rid of this saddle,they are cheaply made in india,they NEVER fit anything correctly and have been found to be stuffed with all kinds of nastiness including nappies and old bras!!
we had bad problems with ours,she would buck,pin her ears back and really misbehave,it turned out to be the ill made and badly fitted saddle,as soon as we realised we got rid and bought a fieldhouse saddle,her behaviour changed from day one in this saddle.
if i can find an old pic of it i will post it.


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

Chaz80 said:


> hi
> lovely pony you have but please can i make a suggestion?
> looking at your pics it looks like you have a halflinger saddle or similar make/design....if i am wrong forgive me,
> it looks just like the one i bought when i got my daughters pony,
> ...


Wow what a nightmare! I don't think my saddle is one of those. My saddle came from 1saddle and though it is a cheap saddle I am overall pleased with its quality and performance. I am so sorry for your bad saddle experience, I will keep my eyes out for a saddle like that and warn people not to buy one!


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

loosie said:


> OMG! just looked on Ebay - how expensive!! Good thing I do leatherwork & have some handy to make my own...


:frown_color:Looks like I'm going to have to buy a crupper after all. I pay for almost all my horse expenses by myself, with as little help from my parents as possible, I couldn't afford something that expensive.:frown_color:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm guessing the problem is the saddle but either way the girth would be something to try, I wouldn't want to get a crupper unless necessary as it's not solving the problem (fit) just holding the saddle in place from the back (where it doesn't WANT to sit).

What did everyone look for on eBay? Searching for "anatomic girth" is likely much cheaper than a specific brand. Maybe the billets could be adjusted?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Aha! I searched for 'shoulder relief girth' & think the cheapest was about $180AU + p/h. Searching 'anatomic girth' found me ones starting at(well there were cheaper but didn't look the same) $76 from the States. P/h for me would be $35 coming from there but a heap cheaper than other options. 

But I agree with you Yogi, that if the saddle always rides forward like that it's likely a saddle fit issue & a special girth will just be a bandaid & perhaps not so effective & having it's own issues if it is applied for this prob. Therefore I wouldn't fork out for one, but look instead at how the saddle might be able to be adjusted to fit better - as mentioned, billet placement is one thing. Ditto for a crupper too. If it were always tight to hold the saddle in place, it will cause other issues(pressure sores for eg). If however, the saddle were generally fine, only 'rode up' when going down steep hills or such, then I'd opt for a crupper.

A major issue with my Mr Fatso's saddle riding up is that it's treeless - there is no structure to keep it in place. But the design of it & placement of the panels means there's no real pressure on his shoulders anyway. Treeless aren't the 'be all & end all' that they're often advertised/touted as, not without their own issues, but I'd rather(because my horses indicate they would rather) a treeless over an imperfectly fitting rigid saddle any day. That may be something for you to consider, as you'd probably get one for around the price of one of those fangled girths anyway.

I'd love to buy a well fitting treed saddle mine could be comfortable in. But for one, I'm not rich & I aim to get his weight down, so he will change shape & whatever fits him now will not when he is less fat/more muscle. One huge thing about saddles often overlooked, being on a live animal, you DO have to check frequently & be prepared to adjust/replace them, because bodies change over time/seasons so just because it fit him well once doesn't mean it always will. It's not a 'set & forget' kind of thing.


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

loosie said:


> But I agree with you Yogi, that if the saddle always rides forward like that it's likely a saddle fit issue & a special girth will just be a bandaid & perhaps not so effective & having it's own issues if it is applied for this prob. Therefore I wouldn't fork out for one, but look instead at how the saddle might be able to be adjusted to fit better - as mentioned, billet placement is one thing. Ditto for a crupper too. If it were always tight to hold the saddle in place, it will cause other issues(pressure sores for eg). If however, the saddle were generally fine, only 'rode up' when going down steep hills or such, then I'd opt for a crupper.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Due to my pony's conformation, almost any saddle I got for him would probably ride forward after hills and jumping. I only started noticing my saddle went to far forward since we started jumping and doing very hilly trails, because it is not a problem on the flat. I would love to get a new saddle, but I could not afford one, that's why I'm trying to find a simple solution that won't cost a lot.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

> almost any saddle I got for him would probably ride forward after hills and jumping.


Yeah, saddle fit IS a difficult process - we all sympathise with you there. I don't agree that you couldn't possibly find one that fit him tho. I wonder how many you've tried, to say that. I personally did try a number of saddles on one of my boys, before I gave up - because I couldn't afford an exxy, custom made job - and went treeless. Wish I'd done that earlier! The one that I was talking of earlier though, a Wintec with an extra wide gullet was good for him... until he got really rotund. As said, IF it's truly only a prob on steep hills tho, that's different tho & that's where I too would use a crupper.



> I only started noticing my saddle went to far forward since we started jumping and doing very hilly trails, because it is not a problem on the flat.


So the pics in this & your other thread are all after jumping/steep downhills? You need to fix the saddle immediately after you do these things then.



> I would love to get a new saddle, but I could not afford one, that's why I'm trying to find a simple solution that won't cost a lot.


Yepo. Sympathise with you there too - I'm far from made of money & can't afford custom made saddles or such either. That is precisely why I have - and why I suggested to you - a cheaper treeless may be your best option.


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

https://www.horse.com/item/collegiate-anatomic-girth/E223182/

Collegiate makes one that is much more affordable. 

Your pony is very nice and I just love his colour.


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## Chaz80 (Sep 29, 2015)

hi i found a pic,my saddle looks very similar to yours but it may not be the same make,
please just be very careful and look out for any changes in behaviour/soreness etc.
the top pic is the halflinger saddle
the second is her saddle she has now its a close contact symonds saddle.


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

My knee-roll is shaped differently, if you look closely. Your horse is cute!


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

Fimargue said:


> https://www.horse.com/item/collegiate-anatomic-girth/E223182/
> 
> Collegiate makes one that is much more affordable.
> 
> Your pony is very nice and I just love his colour.


Thank you so much! I definitely want to try this.


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## Chaz80 (Sep 29, 2015)

Banjo4blue said:


> My knee-roll is shaped differently, if you look closely. Your horse is cute!


thanks 
i did not want to offend you and as i said if its not the same forgive me,i just hate them, they should all be burned


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

Chaz80 said:


> thanks
> i did not want to offend you and as i said if its not the same forgive me,i just hate them, they should all be burned


I am absolutely not offended! Thank you for warning me about those nasty saddles.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Different names same thing .

I don't see anything with his conformation that would make the saddle prone to slipping forward or make a saddle particularly tricky to fit. Trust me, I get the "fits well enough" but I would keep it filed away that there may be a better saddle for him out there as opposed to saying the problem is him.

I'd suggest starting a saddle fit thread, post some pics of him + saddle from different angles and without the pad. Someone may have some good suggestions and you may get a better idea of if it's workable or not. But to be honest my first thought seeing the saddle on him was "ugh".


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

Yogiwick said:


> Different names same thing .
> 
> I don't see anything with his conformation that would make the saddle prone to slipping forward or make a saddle particularly tricky to fit. Trust me, I get the "fits well enough" but I would keep it filed away that there may be a better saddle for him out there as opposed to saying the problem is him.
> 
> I'd suggest starting a saddle fit thread, post some pics of him + saddle from different angles and without the pad. Someone may have some good suggestions and you may get a better idea of if it's workable or not. But to be honest my first thought seeing the saddle on him was "ugh".


I'm sorry but...I'm sure you can't see why the saddle can slide forward on my pony, because all you've seen is a couple photos of him. I own him and have known him for years, and I know him better than any other person in the world, so I think it's really fair that if I tell you he has narrow shoulders and low withers that I'm probably right.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I am sorry Banjo, it was my fault this went away from conformation in the first place. 

I had answered your previous question an saddle sliding forward and when I saw the pictures I could see why. 

Sorry again.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Banjo4blue said:


> I'm sorry but...I'm sure you can't see why the saddle can slide forward on my pony, because all you've seen is a couple photos of him. I own him and have known him for years, and I know him better than any other person in the world, so I think it's really fair that if I tell you he has narrow shoulders and low withers that I'm probably right.
> Thank You.


You posted looking for a conformation critique and my critique is that his build is perfectly average as far as saddle fit goes (and overall).... In terms of what you mentioned he may well be narrow in front (no straight on pictures, but I can see it in the side pictures) but does not have a low wither, it is pretty average and he doesn't have a super forward girth groove or large stomach that would push even a well fitting saddle forward. Yes there may be a tendency but I don't think it's something you can't work around. My Arab has very similar conformation, it's not uncommon. So yes, I can tell from pictures that that saddle isn't working and there is no reason another saddle won't work better... that's half the point of pictures right? 

You don't like your threads going off topic I've noticed, unfortunately that's something that is just part of being on a forum sometimes, you asked for a critique it wouldn't be fair to not point out a problem, esp one that is relevant to the thread.. for my part I'm definitely not meaning to be annoying just helpful, it's up to you if you want to get the saddle to fit better or not. I am also not made of money which is why I know there are tricks to help an "ok" saddle fit decently and if the saddle isn't "ok" at all then you shouldn't use it period, but this saddle could definitely be workable, hence my advice to start a SEPARATE thread (so as to stop the off topic and get more detailed responses). Is it not helpful to receive friendly and specific advice? Why post if not and if you know all about his conformation why post for a critique? No one is questioning your knowledge, but part of knowing things is knowing there is always more to learn. I've been a professional working in the horse industry for over 20 years and you don't learn if you don't listen.. I can say I've learned a lot of random tips and tricks from this forum and the "internet strangers" on here include a lot of VERY knowledgeable professionals with varied experiences who I don't necessarily do everything exactly like them but greatly respect and admire and put value in everything they say even if it's different from how I do things. Absorb things, you don't need to follow exact instructions but listening and filing things away under "no's" and "yes's" and "maybes" is invaluable.

It's also a bit confusing to scold one poster then respond to another poster on the same topic.. I pretty much just posted to suggest searching for an anatomic girth vs brand name.

So your pony is very cute and is built decently all around, nothing fancy but no major weaknesses, he is pretty average. I do notice the saddle does not appear to fit him well and suggest you look into that further (not necessarily in terms of a different saddle if that's not an option..) he shouldn't be too hard to fit based on his conformation. I don't think his neck is overly short he has a "pony" build (not stocky like some but still compact). He seems like a lot of fun and I'm glad you enjoy him so much and hope you continue to.


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## Banjo4blue (Feb 12, 2018)

I posted this to see other's opinions on Banjo's conformation, which I did. Someone told me his hind legs were a little straight, which I'd never thought of, and people told me his neck wasn't that short, and that was all helpful. Now I know, so now maybe this thread is over. If my saddle suddenly starts being uncomfortable for my pony, I will take photos and post them to see what people think. But I'm starting to regret posting any pictures of my poor pony at all, because people just look at them and start complaining about my saddle. Those pictures were from before I even got my half pad, the saddle fits him way better even now than it used to. I just used those pictures because they were the best I had for assessing conformation. 
So here are the helpful things I've learned:
My Pony doesn't have any glaring conformation problems 
There is a type of girth that might make his saddle fit better

Some unhelpful things I learned:
In the pictures I posted the saddle is to far forward (I knew this, those picture are before I got my half pad.)
I should buy a much nicer saddle with the money I don't have (There is no reason to spend money I don't have when I already have a perfectly fine saddle)

Well I think that's about it for this thread. I learned what I wanted to learn, (Thank everyone who had something helpful to add:thumbsup and I also learned people on the internet can be quick to judge someone they've never met before. :frown_color:


If this comforts anyone who was worried about my pony, here is a better picture of his saddle on him:


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I actually do kind of feel as though his neck may be a little short? But it's a little hard to tell from the photos and, really, minor conformation faults are just par for the course. I have yet to see a totally perfect specimen, and if he gets along with no complaints then I don't see the problem 
(He's also absolutely adorable!)

Unfortunately, one type of critique (conformation, in this instance) can often open the door to other types. That's what happens when you put your photos out there. I think it's just important to remember that people are trying their best to be helpful, and not to take things too personally ^^


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Well put Yogi.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Banjo4blue said:


> Those pictures were from before I even got my half pad, the saddle fits him way better


So I just don't understand why on earth didn't you say that in the first place then?? Instead of just complaining that we were all wrong? And if we were all wrong, why on earth did you buy a half pad?!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

He definitely has a forward girth groove and a wide barrel, flat shoulder. His withers are not particularly low or flat. The main problem is not that the girth groove is super far forward, but it is very short. So the girth can't sit much behind his shoulder without running into the width of the barrel. It will always slide downhill from there into the girth groove when the horse moves.
You can see in the photos on the first page how if his girth goes to where it will naturally sit, in the girth groove, it will pull that saddle forward. Half pad or no half pad. 
The tree may be wide enough, but that is not going to help if the billets are too far back. Even with an anatomical girth, the saddle will still tend to slip forward to that girth point. Plus an anatomical girth is a rather expensive solution if it doesn't help (in my experience they help with very minor problems only). 

The best thing you could do if on a budget is do a saddle trade, by essentially selling your current saddle for one that fits but is a similar price. 
Having a saddle that doesn't fit in this way is not being mean to your pony necessarily, it probably isn't making him sore. But it is putting the saddle over his shoulder which interferes with his movement and balance. I rode like that quite a lot before finding a good saddle fit for my horse. It's more for your sake that you might want to fix the issue, because it is quite annoying to feel your saddle sliding forward on downhill slopes and never having a good canter without having to get off afterward. 
I don't think this is an issue of a "stupid kid" because I had the same issue and needed help and advice for it as an adult.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Thread temporarily closed for review


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