# turning into roans??



## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

okay, so the horses are starting to shed out, and some things we've noticed:

my sister's registered black/white, minimum marked tobiano paint gelding now has white hairs throughout his coat all over(except his head and legs) like he's starting to roan. he's 5yrs now. and its like one of his spots has starting running down his butt. its seriously roan looking and like someone smeared wet paint.
and while he's black he has almost a sooty shade about him.


meanwhile my 3yr bay QH/arab has white hairs throughout her coat as well,(except her head and legs) not quite as much as the paint, but very noticable. i don't know anything about her bloodlines, just that she is a QH/arab mix.
she was a black baby, and like a chocolate shaded bay last summer. near black this winter, and from what i can see, her summer coat will be very light, like a light caramel (hmmm wonder if i'm hungry?)

but they both have this roan looking thing going on


my sister was searching around and found some places that said a horse can roan as late as 6 to 7yr and sometimes even later. 


???

-Sissy


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Most horses have random white hairs within their coat that don't mean anything. From the sounds of it, the second one is just the random white hairs that are completely normal. Pictures of both would be nice.

Roans are born roans. They don't "roan out" like a gray grays out.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Roans are born roan and would have one roan parents. I think what you are seeing, is possibly some type of sabino coming through. Very typical with tobianos.

Lizzie


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## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

okay about half way down, this at least says that roans can be born any color, but unlike grays, have dark heads...
GRAY VS ROAN HORSES: How to tell the difference between gray and roan

"In horses, both true roan genes and grey genes are dominant genes. That is, a horse cannot hide these genes, if it has one [or both] of these genes, it will express and become evident. If it is roan, it has to have a roan parent, and if it is grey, it has to have a grey parent.

Frequently, AQHA registered Quarter Horse are listed as being roan, when they are not roan, but grey. That is because inexperienced breeders can mistake young grey horses for roans, report them as roans to AQHA, and it is recorded that way on their permanent papers.

Responsible roan horse breeders often consider any foal that appears roan born from both a roan and a grey parent, to be grey until proven otherwise (after 3-4 years of age). 50% of the time, they will turn grey. And in some cases - especially horses which are both roan + grey - this cannot be determined conclusively before they are 3 years old.

If you are interested in buying a roan horse, and do not want a grey, make sure neither of its parents are grey. (Remember, the AQHA registration certificate offers no conclusive proof of this, as it is only as reliable as the information reported.)

So, how can you tell a young grey horse from a young roan horse, especially if you do not know the color of its parents?

A grey horse will show greying (white hairs) on its face, in equal or higher density than on its body coat, usually fairly early on. It is progressive, and a grey horse gets whiter each year. Any color horse can inherit the grey gene, but every grey horse will have at least one grey parent.

A true roan horse will have a solid colored head and legs, the dark color legs usually make a stalagmite point up its legs above the knees & hocks, and its roaning (white hairs) will be dispersed over its body. The degree of roaning (amount of white hairs) will vary from horse to horse but will remain consistent over its lifetime to that horse. The roan over its body will vary seasonally, (lightest in spring, medium in summer, darkest in winter). A roan foal is often born looking solid colored. If it is a light color horse, (carrying creme or dun gene) it may not display its roaning until older. The roan foal will show a lot of coat color development with each shedding, but look for slight roaning in its flanks when born, or creamy underpinning, or silver legs. After it sheds once or twice, you should know whether it is roan or not. It may be lighter as a yearling than as a 2 year old, but past that, roan is not a progressive color. When it reaches its permanent adult roan color, it will remain that way throughout its life. A roan horse will always have at least one roan parent."
from *Hancock Horses .com**|**ARTICLES**|**The equine roan gene

the paint didn't have any white hairs throughout his body when we got him, at 3yro, but now we keep finding more and more this year as he sheds out more.

for all i know my bay will have more next year like this paint. for all i know, one of her parent is a roan. i literally don't know her bloodlines save for the fact that she is a QH/arab

there are more websites, but for the life of me i can't find them


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## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

FeatheredFeet said:


> Roans are born roan and would have one roan parents. I think what you are seeing, is possibly some type of sabino coming through. Very typical with tobianos.
> 
> Lizzie


 
but what about my bay? 

and, at least it was my understanding, that sabino is more common with overos? though possible for this guy, but we can actually trace his bloodlines, no greys, but a good mix of overos and solids


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

With the shedding process they can look like they are roaning or greying. 
I have a bay Tobiano mare,Sure she has some sabino thrown in there too:wink:
She looks like she is roaning or Greying when she is shedding her winter coat.When she is all shed she definitely is her regular bay tobiano those white hairs are gone. I post pics in past threads,but will again.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

They can be born *looking* roan. They begin to look roan as soon as they start shedding their foal coat. It certainly doesn't take years.

It is more common to find sabino with overo because it is one of the patterns that fall under the overo category. Tobiano itself can cause roaning, but it's usually just in a patch. 

Again, we need pictures of these horses to make a better guess.


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## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

well with the paint, the patch on his butt is more on the left, but its almost like smeared to the right now too. but he still has it all over his body. and he is a minimum marked paint, so he is mainly black. but white hairs all over his body now, extremely visible. Sister's out taking pictures right now


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## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> With the shedding process they can look like they are roaning or greying.
> I have a bay Tobiano mare,Sure she has some sabino thrown in there too:wink:
> She looks like she is roaning or Greying when she is shedding her winter coat.When she is all shed she definitely is her regular bay tobiano those white hairs are gone. I post pics in past threads,but will again.


 
again, with the paint, minmum markings. and as he sheds more, more and more white hairs show up


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

It may just be the way that horse sheds. My mare sheds out very dark and sooty looking before lightening back up. However, I won't make any definitive comments until I can see pictures.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

As previously posted:

"Roans are born roans. They don't "roan out" like a gray grays out. "

"Roans are born roan and would have one roan parent."

"They begin to look roan as soon as they start shedding their foal coat. It certainly doesn't take years."

"Again, we need pictures of these horses to make a better guess."


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

FeatheredFeet said:


> Roans are born roan and would have one roan parents. I think what you are seeing, is possibly some type of sabino coming through. Very typical with tobianos.
> 
> Lizzie


I have never had a roan born roan.

They all looked red dun.......one was a bay.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Ah .... but they were roan. Born roan, genetically. *wink*


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

texasgal said:


> As previously posted:
> 
> "Roans are born roans. They don't "roan out" like a gray grays out. "
> 
> ...


I don't have pictures however, this mare was born red dun.

Ms Roan Sunset Quarter Horse=


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

texasgal said:


> Ah .... but they were roan. Born roan, genetically. *wink*


Yes...the sire was roan.


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## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

texasgal said:


> Ah .... but they were roan. Born roan, genetically. *wink*


well, with my bay, i don't know anything about her parents, just that she's a QH/arab and that just what the guy i bought her from told me. she had a younger sister there too. but i don't know what parent was what, what color, not even any locations.

while i've been trying to search for an answer i have come across many many people discussing changes in their horses. and many, at least say, that their horses started roan, not grey, after some years. born solid.

not sure if its relevant to this topic, but when she gets nicked her hair grown in BLACK. and her summer coat is looking like its going to be very light.

but for all i know one of her parents was a roan


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

WyomingSissy said:


> again, with the paint, minmum markings. and as he sheds more, more and more white hairs show up


 Yes they can,look how roan my mare looks but by the time she is done with shedding she is destinctly just BAY with her white tobiano markings those white looking hairs shed out.I'd wait & see with your horse bet it is just the shedding process....:wink:


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## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

so then whats going on with the mare?


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

WyomingSissy said:


> so then whats going on with the mare?


your QH/arab mare ?? Shedding can make their coats appear different shades for sure but by your description of the color changes with this mare & age, I wouldn't be surprised if she IS turning grey.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm with the others who have said a roan is born a roan, it has to have one roan parent..and so on.. 

I'll say more with pictures of both horses but it's sounding a lot like you want the horse to be roan a good bit more than it is "roan".. It's not a rare thing for any horse to have white ticking all over their body and throughout their mane and tail.


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## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

painted - grey even if her head is still dark?

Drum - its not so much i want her to 'roan' ots more like i have a good looking bay and i'm trying to figure out whats going on with her coat. i'm already waiting to see what color she will be this summer. its the same as my sister thinking "what the heck is going on with my black horse?!?"


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Why don't you post pics of said horses instead of going on written description. People can see what your describing better. 
Still think it is the shedding process & said horses have some sabino influence. Don't think roan is what you are seeing. Any possibility of Appy in the equation?:wink: they play havoc on horses turning weird colors each year:lol::lol:


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## WyomingSissy (Apr 11, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> Why don't you post pics of said horses instead of going on written description. People can see what your describing better.
> Still think it is the shedding process & said horses have some sabino influence. Don't think roan is what you are seeing. Any possibility of Appy in the equation?:wink: they play havoc on horses turning weird colors each year:lol::lol:


okay this will have to do for now, from maybe a week or two ago
you can't hardly see it on her shoulder, the picture was for color, and the sun isn't helping. but its more on her HQ/flanks for now. but like with my sis's paint, granted he's a paint, he didn't have even this much white last year and now he's covered.

i do doubt she has appy in her, although then again it could very likely be possible i out a picture of her the day o got her, she was still an awkward two yro, but if anyone can see anything in her build let me know. she's filled out more, she's got some good HQ muscle, not as bulky as a full QH. again, i was told her and her sis were QH/arab but for all i or the guy know her parents weren't pure


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

There is absolutely nothing going on on that horse. In fact, your bay is actually a brown. Notice how her chest, muzzle, behind her elbow, and on her flank are lighter than the rest of her body? That indicates brown. But those white hairs don't mean anything. They're the random white hairs we've been talking about that are completely normal and completely meaningless.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Exactly what Poseidon said..


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