# If you have a mutt for a horse...



## JumpingTheMoon (Nov 11, 2009)

Ok stupid question (trying to avoid stressing about the show this weekend). 

If you have a mutt for a horse, what breed do you call him?

For example, Buzz is a papered mutt. His sire is the dressage great Rolls Royce, a huge lineage of Westphaliens. His dam is a registered AQHA and goes back to King bred lines. My One And Only Dutch Warmblood

But he's got a COP for KWPN because Rolls Royce was a KWPN approved stallion. So people call him a Dutch Warmblood, but he's not really LOL he's a Westphalien/QH cross. Clear as mud? 

So weird. Anyone else got similar stories? What breed do you call your horse? I stick with the uncomplicated DW cross.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow, none of mine are quiet so complex. About the biggest mutts I have are a breed their own (mustangs) but other than that, the only cross that I have is a QHxBelgian that could never be registered. Good luck keeping all that straight and he sounds lovely.


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## JumpingTheMoon (Nov 11, 2009)

He is - he's gorgeous. At least to me he is ****! 

You can't ride papers though right?

Is Rafe the QH/Belgian cross? (I hope I got the name right) the foal your mare had?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yes, Ma'am. That's him. And I kinda live by that credo that you can't ride papers. I only have 3 horses of my 12 that are registered. LOL


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

My mare is a breed all unto herself - I call her a PITA! We have no idea what she is. We can only guess. I understand she can be registered as a buckskin with the ABA, but they are just a color registery for all intents and purposes.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i have a mutt horse ! 

i have no idea what breed he is, what his true age is, or who his parents were. i call him a grade, many people try to call him a paint, bc he is a pinto, but i dont because who knows if hes really a paint or not. =]


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

I have a belgian cross-with-what-I-don't-know...but if you look at my avatar you can clearly see the belgian in him.

My mare I just call a pinto. Not a breed I know but I haven't a clue what she is. Some have suggested spotted draft cross because she's big boned but I just can't seem to call her that because I'm really not sure.


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## JumpingTheMoon (Nov 11, 2009)

dee said:


> My mare is a breed all unto herself - I call her a PITA!


I think I have one or two of that breed myself!:lol:


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## HollyLolly (Dec 25, 2009)

I call my horse a Gypsy Vanner (Gypsy Cob if you're english lol), but that's only because that's the only breed that fits her criteria LOL :lol: in england any mixes of breeds tend to be refered to as a cob, but it's a very loose term to be honest. Lucky is from a rescue centre so I don't know her breed, her real birthday or where she was born, so she's a my little mystery horse, just makes her more interesting haha!


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## JumpingTheMoon (Nov 11, 2009)

Mystery horses are the best kind I reckon.


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

I was wondering this to.

The filly I am buying is an Appaloosa/QH but will be registered with ApHC...so I am guessing I call her an appi. But she is a buckskin and looks nothing like an appi lol. I guess I am just not used to seeing solid appies even though I knew they existed


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## HollyLolly (Dec 25, 2009)

Absolutely hehe! I'm getting a wild, new forest pony soon, can't wait to get him, he'll have a little bit of mystery in him too cos there are all sorts in New Forests!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I've got a QH/Walker cross...I just call her a QH cross, or a Walker cross...nothing fancy...Lol!


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I have a 3/4 TB 1/4 Shire. I call her an American Warmblood most days (people always asks me what she is at shows) but sometimes I tell people she's a TB cross then if they ask me what she's crossed with I will tell them. I don't introduce her as a Shire cross because people get all snooty about the drafts. it's ridiculous


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

I love draft crosses. I want to get a Hanoverian/TB/Draft some day *sigh*


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## DarkEquine (Aug 29, 2008)

I call them a HORSE!!! lol
I'm an idiot


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

My gelding is a real Heinz 57. When I adopted him from a PMU rescue, they told me he was a belgian cross, said he'd be about 16 hds at maturity and gave me a picture of him at 6 mos. with his mother. She looks like maybe she's a TB/Clyde cross. When I looked up the ranch he came from in Canada, his mother was listed as paired with a perch/paint stallion. All the Belgian stallions were around 16 hds, the perch/paint stallion was 17.2. My gelding is currently 18 hds! Mostly I just tell people he's a draft cross but he's gorgeous so if they ask, I tell them perch/paint/TB/clyde.

Our pony is a large leopard spot so we say he's a POA, could be registered as one through the hardship clause if we wanted to show him in POA shows.


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## West (Aug 18, 2009)

I have a bay mare, who knows what she is. I call her a bay mare or grade mare. I have a half arab half paint or pinto. He has papers but I never registered him so it really isn't important. I like the comment you can't ride papers. 
I was going to show my pinto but situations change and we never got to. My mare and I did some showing and for a no named she did really well.


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## deuceschinagirl (Jan 5, 2010)

when a horse is of mixed or unknown breeding it is usually refered to as grade horse. Doesn't mean anything to me, though. A grade horse is just as good as a registered one.


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

Ok, question. I looked up Grade Horse (since I was unfamiliar with the term) and says basically mixed breed and/or no registration, horse of un-known decent or parentage. Now my question. So the filly I am getting is Appi/QH but registered with ApHC....so would she still be considered Grade? Just curious!


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

technically, any horse who is registered is not a grade horse. So your horse wouldn't be grade 

I don't have anything against grade horses considering I technically have two. However, I don't call them grade. One is 100% TB (racebred but never registered) and the other one is registerable with the AWR or AWS (I can't remember which one accepts draft crosses). So, as long as a horse is registerable, to me they aren't grade but I know that's not the actual definition. I just don't see the point in calling them a grade horse when you know their entire pedigree!


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

I have three non-purebreds.

One is an Arabian/Welsh cross. They're known as Welaras, so that's what I usually call her. Sometimes I say half Arab.

Another is Haflinger/Welsh Cob. That's what I usually call her, or a half haffy 

Another is an Arab/who knows what! I often call her an Arab cross. Or just my pinto pony


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

eventerdrew said:


> technically, any horse who is registered is not a grade horse. So your horse wouldn't be grade
> 
> I don't have anything against grade horses considering I technically have two. However, I don't call them grade. One is 100% TB (racebred but never registered) and the other one is registerable with the AWR or AWS (I can't remember which one accepts draft crosses). So, as long as a horse is registerable, to me they aren't grade but I know that's not the actual definition. I just don't see the point in calling them a grade horse when you know their entire pedigree!


i think what most defines a grade is the unknown breed/parentage. just because they are a mix of breeds & not registered does not automatically put them in the grade category, especially if the breed cross was on purpose. if that makes sense ?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

One of the best riding horses I've had in a long while, Hollywood, is a grade horse. Every time I look at him, I try to figure out what breeds he is composed of. Sometimes I see a little draft in the shape of his nose, sometimes I see other breeds. For the sake of simplicity, I call him a QH X but I really don't know if there is any QH in him.


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## deuceschinagirl (Jan 5, 2010)

> Ok, question. I looked up Grade Horse (since I was unfamiliar with the term) and says basically mixed breed and/or no registration, horse of un-known decent or parentage. Now my question. So the filly I am getting is Appi/QH but registered with ApHC....so would she still be considered Grade? Just curious!


If your filly is officially registered with the Appaloosa Horse Club, then she would not be considered grade. The reason for this is that they allow outcrossing to Quarterhorses and also to thoroughbreds. It is the same with the American Paint Horse Association. They also allow out crossing tb and qh and the American Quarterhorse Association alows out crossing to tb. When you see a qh that is refered to as "appendix", that means the horse has a tb parent. Now I don't know how the ApHC or the AQHA do it, but with the APHA, if you are registering a foal who has a qh or tb parent, they require you to have a dna test comlpeted on that foal also.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

The stock horse registries can get a bit confusing because they're all interchangable for the most part. I would still consider her an Appaloosa because that's the registry she'll be registered with. It's the same as my Paint filly - the vast majority of her bloodlines are actually Quarter Horses, but I don't refer to her as a QH X Paint because if she were to be registered, it would be as a Paint.

This is a little different, but my first pony Ramar's Gold always made me laugh. He was registered as a Half-Arabian but his dam was a Belgian/Welsh so he was the furthest thing from an Arabian you could get, I swear. I have mental images of taking him to Arabian Nationals and being laughed right out of the ring :lol: It would have been priceless!









My mom with Ramar back in the 80's!


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## SeeinSpotz (Jul 15, 2009)

WEll i have two mutts!! =)
Roxxi is part some kind of draft and well maybe a poa or some pony. she is a 14.1 hh red roan. Excillent cart pony and teached many people how to ride. =)

Then there is Raven. She is part arab and something else maybe qh or a paint. i call her a paint.


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

deuceschinagirl said:


> If your filly is officially registered with the Appaloosa Horse Club, then she would not be considered grade. The reason for this is that they allow outcrossing to Quarterhorses and also to thoroughbreds. It is the same with the American Paint Horse Association. They also allow out crossing tb and qh and the American Quarterhorse Association alows out crossing to tb. When you see a qh that is refered to as "appendix", that means the horse has a tb parent. Now I don't know how the ApHC or the AQHA do it, but with the APHA, if you are registering a foal who has a qh or tb parent, they require you to have a dna test comlpeted on that foal also.


Thanks for that info. I have never registered a 1/2 anything before. I picked her up today and have her papers to fill out and send in. I'll look it over and see if they require a DNA test which I did when I registered my TB!


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## Seahorseys (Nov 14, 2009)

I have a half arab half/ half indian paint, but my understanding is that's very similar to calling her a half arab/half QH? Is there a distinct difference between a paint and a QH aside from the coloring? I registered her with the AHA as a half Arab, and was going to double register her with the APHA but I don't really see the point other than for breeding or selling appeal - I plan on doing neither. I love the cross, because you can totally tell when she is being an arab, or when she is being a paint, lol.


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

In New Zealand we have the term Stationbred. This refers to a type of horse which is very common here. A stationbred horse is an animal bred on hill country out of whatever horses were available to the sheperds at the time. Generally a Stationbred horse will have some TB, Clydie, QH in it. Having said that I have met Stationbred horses with Lippizaner, Arab and Morgan horse in their back grounds. Stationbreds are real mutts but we love them over here and they are fetching quite good money as they are becoming known as great eventers.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

Seahorseys said:


> I have a half arab half/ half indian paint, but my understanding is that's very similar to calling her a half arab/half QH? Is there a distinct difference between a paint and a QH aside from the coloring? I registered her with the AHA as a half Arab, and was going to double register her with the APHA but I don't really see the point other than for breeding or selling appeal - I plan on doing neither. I love the cross, because you can totally tell when she is being an arab, or when she is being a paint, lol.


Paints and QH are a seperate breed, but at the same time they are kinda the same  Both allow registration to horses who have one APHA/AQHA horse (APHA for Paint, AQHA for QH) and the other parent a registered APHA (Paint only, not AQHA for this), AQHA (both, or TB (both). If you had a foal by APHA x APHA parents, you could register it as APHA. If foal by APHA x AQHA, you could reg as APHA. If APHA x TB, APHA. If AQHA x TB, AQHA. 
Your horse cannot be registered with APHA because Arabs aren't allowed.

Someone correct me if I"m wrong, as I dont' have stock breeds


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JumpingTheMoon said:


> But he's got a COP for KWPN because Rolls Royce was a KWPN approved stallion. So people call him a Dutch Warmblood, but he's not really LOL he's a Westphalien/QH cross. Clear as mud?
> 
> .


 
I hope you realize that COP papers are not registration papers. They just show his breeding lines. In warmblood circles he is a unregistered grade.

Now he could be registered but you will need to actually do something with a registry that will accept those COP papers and give him full and complete registration.


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## JumpingTheMoon (Nov 11, 2009)

Yes, completely well aware that they are not registration papers. Thanks though! Cause sometimes that can be confusing!!


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## peg4x4 (Jan 10, 2010)

Just make up a fancy name. Look at what the fancy name did for the Labradoodle! Lots more $$ for one of them that a OOPS fence jumper Lab got in with your Registered Poodle


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JumpingTheMoon said:


> Yes, completely well aware that they are not registration papers. Thanks though! Cause sometimes that can be confusing!!


 
You COULD turn them into full registration papers though. May not be with the registry of birth but at least papers that will allow you to have a registered animal.

That would be the --AWS--AWR and RPSI


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

Oh heck...my gelding is a mystery horse...Looking at him you can clearly see some TB and QH but who knows what else he may have in him...for simplicity sake i just say he is an appendix when people ask...he has far to many TB traits to not have any TB in him...and in my area QH's are most common so I figure Appendix QH is the best bet.

My arabian mare has papers...im not sure if she is registered or not....point is that if she isnt she could be...

So there we go 1 grade 1 purebred....also my fav term for highly mixed up horses....like my friends lol she has a paint/appy/QH/arab/and lord knows what else mix...is a heinz 57...lol local terms are the best...


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## JumpingTheMoon (Nov 11, 2009)

Spyder said:


> You COULD turn them into full registration papers though. May not be with the registry of birth but at least papers that will allow you to have a registered animal.
> 
> That would be the --AWS--AWR and RPSI


I know what the AWS is, but the AWR? Is that similar?
What about the PHR? It's not really a registry I guess, but it is a USEF offshoot so.. who knows. 

I was told (and I'm probably wrong) that he can still earn points at breed specific shows until higher levels with the COP though will be excluded from certain classes, etc. Is that true? 

Makes no difference really, I can't imagine how many breed shows I'll ever go to.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JumpingTheMoon said:


> I know what the AWS is, but the AWR? Is that similar?
> What about the PHR? It's not really a registry I guess, but it is a USEF offshoot so.. who knows.
> 
> I was told (and I'm probably wrong) that he can still earn points at breed specific shows until higher levels with the COP though will be excluded from certain classes, etc. Is that true?
> ...


There are various classes that require registration in some reqistry to compete.

Like --
Young horse competitions

The above is not a breed show but more representing of the registry.

But most importantly any points won in recognized classes are awarded to the registry and horese and rider that rank the horse/registry/rider world wide. COP papers just will not cut it.

The AWR is simular but with different goals ...looking more towards breeding....AWS looks more toward performance.

The RHSI is considered the higher more reputable of the three I mentioned.

PHR is an option but is not recognized by the WBFSH. (the ranking body for all registered horses) at least I am pretty sure it isn't.

The three I mentioned are full members of the WBFSH.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I have a Clyde/QH cross mae and just call her a Clyde cross since she looks most like a Clyde.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

CheyAut said:


> Paints and QH are a seperate breed, but at the same time they are kinda the same  Both allow registration to horses who have one APHA/AQHA horse (APHA for Paint, AQHA for QH) and the other parent a registered APHA (Paint only, not AQHA for this), AQHA (both, or TB (both). If you had a foal by APHA x APHA parents, you could register it as APHA. If foal by APHA x AQHA, you could reg as APHA. If APHA x TB, APHA. If AQHA x TB, AQHA.
> Your horse cannot be registered with APHA because Arabs aren't allowed.
> 
> Someone correct me if I"m wrong, as I dont' have stock breeds


 
You are absolutly right!


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## JumpingTheMoon (Nov 11, 2009)

Well ******, the RPSI said that because he has a COP they can't register him with them because of a German rule.


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## Equestrian09 (Jan 25, 2010)

*Tobiano Arabian?*

My horse has great bloodlines:
Sire is registered AHA black arabian champion NV Beau Bey
Dam is registered APHA paint QH champ Tramptacious out of Mr. Tramp

And is double registered;
HAHR ( Half Arabian Horse Registry) 
PtHA (Pinto Horse Association) 

so altho he is actually half American Paint QH he is a registered as a Pinto.

And 'in person' he looks like a great big 100% Arab that someone splashed white paint on.

I just call him Ghostrider!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JumpingTheMoon said:


> Well ******, the RPSI said that because he has a COP they can't register him with them because of a German rule.


 
That registry can be difficult but the other two are still viable.

Did you call them? Because the American side should be able to. I know of horses that have been registered with them that I really wonder about. A CSHA can get registered with them with the right breeding and the Canadian Sport horse only issues COP papers. 

The funny thing is that if you got AWS or AWR papers the RPSI will probably accept him.

Some of these registries are strange.

The easiest for you considering your horse is a gelding and performance is more important to you is the AWS. It is also the least expensive.


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## rosiesmum (Jan 24, 2010)

I used to have the most massive horse, no idea what breed so when people asked I just said a big one


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

my prob is i know Swoop is 100% TB the previous owners bought him from a breeder as a yearling but he never raced or anything so he was never registered, i dont know if he was bred as a racehorse or a hunter, cuz he has excellent hunter confirmation lol. Only reason i know his story is bc he was a consignment, i wish i had got the peoples names and everything but i dont think they cared they just wanted him gone.

Petey well i know he came from a farm and was originally bred as an eventer and i know he was told to be a TB but i dont know if he was possibly crossed with a WB or not cuz hes quite thick but idc i love them both


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

FoxyRoxy- My TB mare was in the same boat. She was too small to race so they didn't bother registering her. Yet, her pedigree is on pedigreequery. So I don't call her grade because I know everything about her history and pedigree


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

eventerdrew said:


> FoxyRoxy- My TB mare was in the same boat. She was too small to race so they didn't bother registering her. Yet, her pedigree is on pedigreequery. So I don't call her grade because I know everything about her history and pedigree


 
yea the people who bought Swoop were retarded, knew nothing about horses but wanted a purebreed so he was bought from a breeder and they knew nothing about horses the woman thought he would bond with her since he got him as a baby..... they sent him away as a 2yr old to b trained for her kids.... when he came back from "training" (it was abuse) her kids didnt want to ride anymore and she didnt like him so they threw him in the pasture and didnt even touch him for 2 yrs! so needless to say after all that then being sent to a barn for consignment and being beaten there pretty bad.... he was a disaster but he def was a diamond in the rough!


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

We are still trying to determine what Hunter is. We know he is a QH cross, but with what? Apparently the previous owner was told Pintaloosa (which might be coming true as he is getting a brown spot in his Palomino coat - Oh I hope he stays a palomino). We also think it may be arab as he moves like one (or welsh mtn pony as he is not very big). I will be putting up some new profile picts in the next few days as those ones are really old and most are from when I rescued him.


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