# Bottle feeding orphan kittens!



## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I was giving a riding lesson and found 3 kittens in our junk filled trailer. No mama. I checked a couple times throughout the next 6 hours and she didn't come back. So, I scooped them up and brought them inside. I have been bottle feeding them every two hours, making sure they are warm, holding at least 3 hours a day, etc. One of them suddenly stopped eating and wouldn't get warm even though he was on a heating pad with the rest of them. He passed away. So, I have two kitties. One is what I think will turn into a pointed siamese type look (white with grey ears) boy and the other looks like a mini mama. (saw mom for a second before she left.) She is grey with orange and white stripes on her face, only her face not her body, it is adorable. When I got them, they still had their umbilical cords so they should be probably 5 days old now. (found them last Friday) Somebody told me that since the one died, that means that these two are 80% going to die, even though they are nice and strong...(gained 20 grams in two days!) is that true?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

*Bump*


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

It was probably best to leave them where they were. Moms can leave their kittens for hours, and I don't think you watched for 6 straight hours, so you don't know if she came back or not.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I read that you are supposed to wait 5 hours. When I picked them up to take them inside, they were really cold. I stayed outside probably 30-40 feet away for at least an hour and then checked every half hour to an hour. I don't think she was coming back, but who knows?


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

I think you should have left them for their mother to look after. They would have had a chance.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Not if she didn't come back... :/


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

When the are tiny they cannot poo on their own, so the mother licks their anus to stimulate them to evacuate . Sorry if this sounds icky, but it's necessary, though I don't know for how many days after birth. I think you could use a damp washcloth. You must also "wash" them om their bodies with a ver slightly damp rag to simile the mothers licking. This is every important .


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## dreamincolor (Feb 14, 2015)

I had three bottle kittens brought to me after their mom left them in the bumper well of a car and they took a trip to work with a friend. Unfortunately, one passed due to a deformity of her back end that made it nearly impossible for her to pass stool. The other two are strong and healthy and seven months old now.

One thing to be really careful about is changing brands of formula. The difference in brands can shock the system and kill them.

I kept the kittens in a cage with bottles filled with hot water in one area, covered with a towel. I left an area for them to get away if it was too hot. It was very time consuming, but worth it. I love those kittens.  Best of luck!

Best of luck with these guys!


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Just because one died, doesn't mean there is necessarily any greater chance that the other two will die. It could imply a genetic problem, or it could just be that one was weaker. However, I don't think any will survive. Next time, leave apparently abandoned young animals alone. Mama almost always comes back, and not usually when someone is watching.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, they are in my closet underneath one of the shelves. It forms a perfect little cubby hole. There is a old sheet and then one side has a heating pad. I have been stimulating their pee and poop. I have been feeding KMR because I heard it was the best. Cost $20 for a can that is half gone after only 5 days... I have spent $50 on these kitties so far. They are healthy and growing fine.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Why don't you think any will survive, Northern Mama?


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Bottlefed kittens are incredibly hard. They're very delicate especially in their health the first few days. I've seen many come up with bloat, impactions, and ruptured trachea because of either 'minor' accidents during feedings or conditions that went unnoticed. 

Animals will not typically be around their young. They will lurk and skulk but any high risk activities like feedings or interactions are left until things quiet down. Cats especially are notorious for not being around their kittens when people are around (unless of course the cat has been well socialized and is in an area where it feels secure). 

I had ten bottlefed kittens out of a young mom (similar situation only mom was hit by car and they were a post-humous c section by a vet). Only two survived because the others were just incredibly delicate. Cats are especially finicky in their young age and most need the aid of a mother IN ADDITION to proper human care. Two out of ten was praised around my area because they hadn't had a mother or those nutrients to thrive, only me. 

Typically the bottlefed litters I have that do incredibly well are kittens that have their mothers with them who also assist me in feeding, washing, and stimulation. Always better to leave young alone for a day or two when the mother is definitely around.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Incitatus, it's not true that a mother cat needs help from a human to raise her kittens. I've seen dozens of batches of kittens, never interfered and they've almost all been OK. The exception was a batch of severely incested (is that a word?) kittens.

I think they'll die because as Incitatus says, it's just incredibly hard for a human to replace a mother cat. The licking, the digestive stimulation, the physical stimulation, the nutrients from mother's milk, all contribute to the well-being of the young. You just don't have what a mother cat has and kittens are so tiny and fragile... 

Since you're all in now, keep it up and see where it goes, but don't let it break your heart if the last two die. Learn from it though.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I probably shouldn't multitask lol what I meant was if something is wrong or out of place (Like the young Queen I had was not physically able too care for her litter, or mentally either, she never did figure out how to wash them or stimulate them and tended to under produce milk so a human was needed to help her care for the kittens). And orphan kittens I can integrate with a healthy Queen and liter and just assist the kittens who still need additional help (if any). 

haha yes, cats usually need no help to care for their kittens and it's best to leave them with their mother/care giver with little human interference. Sorry if my post was unclear lol I probably shouldn't go from writing a paper to replying to a post! ;-)


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Have you consulted a vet? That is where I would start.

That said, I think they might not make it, at least without consulting a vet. Colostrum is so important in baby kittens. Without that their immune systems just aren't functioning well enough to survive.

Kittens that do not receive colostrum or milk from a lactating mother in the first day of life should receive serum as an alternate source of antibodies. The serum can be obtained from any normal cat and can be injected under the skin at a dose of 1 milliliter per pound. This generally gives the kittens some protection for about 6 weeks.

So i would start by taking them to the vet and checking to see if they have received colostrum and possibly getting them injected with serum. 

Kittens should be weighed at birth on a gram scale (newborns usually weigh between 90 and 110 grams [3.15 and 3.85 ounces), and then on a daily basis for the first two weeks. When properly fed, they will usually double their weight within the first week. In addition to food, warmth is essential to the well-being of newborn kittens. A consistent environmental temperature of 90 to 94F (approximately 32 to 34-5C) is recommended for the first two weeks, then 75 to 80 (approximately 24 to 26.5C) for the third week. A temporary incubator, using a standard household sixty-watt bulb placed approximately two and a half feet above the kittens, should maintain the desired temperature.

When the queen licks her kittens, she is not only cleaning them but also stimulating them to urinate and defecate. Massaging or stroking the kitten's anal area with a warm, damp cotton ball will provide the same stimulus. Massage the kittens after they have eaten and continue the massages for three weeks or until the kittens are capable of urinating and defecating on their own.

Here is some more information you may find useful. I would print out the stomach capacity chart so you do not overfeed them. Notice this recommends that newborn kittens get fed 7 times each day! 

Caring for Orphaned Kittens

http://www.maddiesfund.org/assets/d... Feeding Chart and Stomach Capacity Table.pdf


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## blueriver (Oct 10, 2009)

My farm has cats ... Ten barn cats and mamma cats. I think you snatched them to early. As I type I have a litter born 4 days and have not seen mamma yet care for them BUT she is cause they was still alive tonight.

Alot of folks grab them up ... either way its already been done so do the best you can.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I wasn't able to get a scale to weight them on until the day after I got them and then they weighed 146, 145, and 148 grams. Today they weighed 186.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I've raised several litters of kittens and generally have good luck but they were all with their mom long enough to receive their colostrum. 

Powdered KMR is cheaper than the canned and you only mix as much as you need at each feeding so it's fresher (the canned can go bad if opened too long).

Keep them warm, fed, and wiped. I would think a heating pad inside a heated house would be too warm. Barn kittens are regularly left by their mom's and have nothing but each other and their bedding to keep them warm. Don't fret if they don't poop much (you may only get a little bit of stain on whatever you're wiping them with-I always use paper towels because it mimics the roughness of mama's tongue a little better than cloth or cotton balls) while only on formula but they will pee a lot.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

I wound up caring for multiple orphan kittens, it's hard and time consuming, but worth it in the end.

I wouldn't have taken the kittens, but what's done is done and now you just have to give it your best shot.

As mentioned you need to have their antibody levels checked and see what they might need. I can also second the paper towel for mimicking the licking sensation a bit better than softer rags or cotton balls.

The youngest kitten I wound up with was at most a week old when it's mother was run over by a car (she was a feral that had evaded the traps set for her so she could be spayed.) 
He was an adorable orange tabby male that I named Tonto. He was fed at appropriate intervals, and stimulated corrected for his bowel movements. I also would mimic him being picked up and carried by his mother. Tonto really liked to sleep on my chest, so I spent many a night sitting up sleeping with him. But it was hard work, luckily I had help from my dog.

I have to say the best thing for him was my dog Bubba. Bubba took care of nearly all of his needs, especially grooming and body heat. He would even lay next to him while I fed him, he was a good dog, Bubba helped keep several kittens alive before he passed away.

Anyway, Tonto is now in a loving home of his own and very happy, but the orphan cases don't always turn out so well. I certainly needed and had help along the way and am very glad for it.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## Purplelady (Dec 6, 2014)

Hello . People might say I am bad but you could not take a change and wait in case the mum came back sorry one pasted away but you still have the 2 am I right ?!! . Your doing a good job let me know how you get on please as I like cats and am hoping the other 2 get nice and big . From Purplelady
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

They are still doing great. Sorry, I meant powdered, not the canned. I had heard that canned goes bad fast so I opted for powdered. Would me carrying them around in a sling with me be a good idea so they feel loved and have my body warmth? How would you make a sling like that?


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

They don't need to feel loved. They are cats, not babies. As long as they are sheltered in your closet, they have enough warmth. It's more important for them to be well-nourished to generate their own body heat. Carrying them around in a sling would probably not be a good idea. They are not possums or kangaroos. Kittens sleep in a nest.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Baby animals in general need as little massive attention as possible when they're this young. (I mean massive like being picked up/held/carried around excessively, etc, etc). Carrying them around is not a good idea, especially when they are only a few days old. They also don't need to feel 'loved' (just to kinda drill this home, do you remember being loved when you were three days old? It just isn't in that brain function yet, you probably cared more that you were fed, clean and safe. Same with baby animals.) 

A sling leaves too much room for accidents to happen. As long as they're warm, fed and healthy they're fine and it's probably best to leave them alone to grow. Babies need rest after all! Plus they're cats........ cats are micro destroyers of the universe and have a smidgen of sociopathy so I think they're fine with not being coddled! ;-) 

Northernmama please feel free to tell me if my post makes no sense again! ;-)


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Nah, no sling, you could run the risk of smothering them by accident more than anything else, or even over heating them.

When I mimicked them being carried it was only a few feet so that I could clean up 'their spot'. Basically I just used my hand and wrapped it around them the same way a queen would with her mouth, letting their hind end dangle a bit and set them down very gently, that was all that was needed, and I only did it if I needed to clean up, other wise it was up to the kittens to decide if they wanted to move or not...or my dog, he'd move them around if he felt they needed it, or to make space to lay down, he was very careful not to sit or lay on them, LOL.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Incitatus32 said:


> Plus they're cats........ cats are micro destroyers of the universe and have a smidgen of sociopathy so I think they're fine with not being coddled! ;-)


:lol::lol: love this.^


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Okay, I had just heard that they needed to be held for at least 3 hours a day... Thanks everyone! They are so adorable!


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

So long as they have someone or something to cuddle with they should be fine, if they want 'cuddles' they will usually wiggle over and snuggle up to you if you sit near them.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Bad news....Diva passed away today.  We have no idea what happened. I went in there to feed and she was not doing well. We put her on the pad and snuggled her and she spit up some formula. (We burp them so I don't think that was the problem) she was cold so I didn't feed her as I read that could cause hypothermia. She passed away within an hour.


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## Purplelady (Dec 6, 2014)

Hello . I am so so sorry to read the news one of the kittens as died . I had been keeping my fingers crossed . You still have one ?? How is that one doing please let know . Take care from Purplelady
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

30 feet away is not very far..

If they are that young you need a vets advice. PLEASE take the last one to the vet asap. They even may have foster homes available with experience with newborns.

I assume you dip the umbilical cords but it's too late at this point either way.

Please do NOT handle newborns 3 hours a day!! That can kill them very easily and quite likely has contributed.

I know it's the hard part since they're cute but be an adult put them down and walk away. Obviously you need to check on and care for regularly but don't handle them too much at this point. They need lots of rest.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

NorthernMama said:


> Incitatus, it's not true that a mother cat needs help from a human to raise her kittens. I've seen dozens of batches of kittens, never interfered and they've almost all been OK. The exception was a batch of severely incested (is that a word?) kittens.
> 
> I think they'll die because as Incitatus says, it's just incredibly hard for a human to replace a mother cat. The licking, the digestive stimulation, the physical stimulation, the nutrients from mother's milk, all contribute to the well-being of the young. You just don't have what a mother cat has and kittens are so tiny and fragile...
> 
> Since you're all in now, keep it up and see where it goes, but don't let it break your heart if the last two die. Learn from it though.


I think Incitatus is saying it is best to let the mother do the work and if a human is involved it should only be in as little as possible (aka helping mom as opposed to THE mom) though obviously not always possible.

I didn't understand it to mean that the mother cat cannot raise the kittens on her own though see how the wording could go either way.

I agree they should of been left. They would of had a chance and unfortunately now less so. Newborns are so incredibly fragile. You really won't even understand until you've worked with them in situations.

I hope you have learned a lesson with this. They would of been better off with mom. I know it's hard but please realize that. I'm sorry you had to watch them die. Don't get too attached to the last one, though I really hope things work out. A vet check asap will help or you could surrender them to a shelter.


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## blueriver (Oct 10, 2009)

blueriver said:


> My farm has cats ... Ten barn cats and mamma cats. I think you snatched them to early. As I type I have a litter born 4 days and have not seen mamma yet care for them BUT she is cause they was still alive tonight.
> 
> Alot of folks grab them up ... either way its already been done so do the best you can.


They alive and well .. 3 in this litter.

about 60% of my cats are born ... no tail, stub tail or half tail!!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I hope the last one survives. Bottle raising kittens is hard but the ones that do make it often make great pets. Good luck.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

How old is the last one? I currently have 3 bottle babies (now drinking from saucers with a bit of canned food mixed in) who are 5 1/2 weeks old, and I may be able to help you. My babies are a bit of a different scenario though- their mom was very ill and came up as a stray to my house and birthed in my yard. She looked like she was dying (horrible breathing, not moving for hours at a time, staggaring around) and the kittens were screaming for milk, so I took her to the vet. She was VERY sick with FIV (can't be cured) and I kept her alive for 3 weeks for the kittens sake, keeping her on all sorts of medicines, then had her humanely euthed when they were old enough to have a chance on their own. Meanwhile since day 1 I bottle fed them 2x a day and let her nurse the rest of the time.

Are you force feeding the kitten or do they suck on their own? It almost sounds like Diva aspirated and died, which is very common with kittens. 

They could also have Coccidia, a deadly worm infestation common in kittens. You really need to take your kitten to the vet and if he/she is older than 2 weeks old, it can be wormed with a very safe kitten wormer- and again at 4 weeks. That's what I did with my kittens. Also, monitor their poop. I've had lots of problems with either diahrrea or constipation in my kittens. I think it's the KMR. I had success with buying Fortiflora probiotics from the vet and adding it to their milk, and putting a few drops of Kayro corn syrup in the milk of the constipated one.

You have to be very diligent and allot a lot of time and money for bottle babies, but if you do it right they'll be ok. My 3 are full of life and in to EVERYTHING!


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

What I want to know is why these kittens were not taken to the vet to be checked out immediately?

You could have 3 healthy kittens instead of 1 sick one, if you had gone immediately to the vet! You still want to breed one of your horses but you can't afford a vet visit?

The vet could have checked for internal parasites, antibody levels etc, before these unnecessary deaths.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

What was the vet going to do? Parasitism is highly unlikely in kittens that young. Bottle raising kittens is hard. It sounds like the op did as good a job as anyone could. 

There is no need in beating her up for trying. If you are worried about saving kittens lives, go to the pound and adopt a few. Millions are euthanized each year because nobody cares. At least the OP cared enough to try.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Sometimes they do just fail to thrive. Maybe mom abandoned them because something was wrong with them. There were actually 4 babies in my little litter but mom ran off and 'disposed' of one  sometimes they just know.

I do think a vet visit is good for the remaining kitten though. My kittens did have worms at 2 weeks old which surprised me. And fleas. 

Good luck Ebony!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it's a bit like trying to get nestllings that fall to earth to survive; you are battling the odds.

don't sink too much of your heart into this. it's an uphill climb, so whatever ground you gain is by the grace of God.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Bubbles is still doing good. His eyes just opened.  He is 8 days (at least) now. He sucks by himself, I had to force feed the first couple days but now he latches right on.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Also do not hold them upside down to feed them,or on their backs, as that can kill them, same for rabbits for that matter, puppies don't know but would imagine them also.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, we hold them horizontal at feeding, had heard that if not, it can get in their lungs! Thanks, Palomine!


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

So sorry to hear of your loss, it's always hard when you lose one.

My one and only cat came from a litter of 3, he was the only survivor, and that because I 'rescued him from his rescuer.' She had no clue...absolutely no clue and killed the other two by not feeding them enough, nor did she care.

I've since pulled out from caring for orphaned kittens, although I had a very high success rate, I just couldn't handle the worry/ nervousness anymore.

I do wish you the best of luck with your last kitten though.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

How often are you "evacuating" their urine? They need to have this done every hour or so. If you don't their bladder can rupture. 

I raised a whole litter from day ONE. Their mother got mastitis the day they were born, so I took over. I didn't lose any of them, but it was HARD.

I took a soft paper towel damp with warm water (not wet) and gently wiped their bums. They quickly urinated into the paper towel. You MUST do this every hour you are awake and wake up at least once during the night to do it.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I do it every time I feed them. I am thinking that they were 2 days old when I found them. Bubbles eyes are completely open now. He is soooo adorable!


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Um hello? Where are da pictures!?! :lol:


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

:lol: I will take some when I get the time. He looks like a little alien his eyes are so big!


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Awww, I love it when they open their eyes for the first time....I must see pictures...


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Okay got pictures! Not very good ones, but pictures. Also, AWESOME news! I am sooo excited!! So, I have a cat that had kittens last year. I was feeding Bubbles and she came over and started licking him and making her "mommy noises" so I decided what the heck. I put him in his bed and left the door open, watching so I could pull her off him if she attacked him and she waltzed in, laid down next to him, started purring and licking him. He crawled right back to her belly and started to "nurse" and she let him! (Even though he can't get milk from her) But, I stayed for half an hour and she was still acting motherly with not a tinge of aggression, so she is now in there with him licking him clean and keeping him warm! She even stimulated his pee for me! So, she is my new helper. All I have to do now is feed!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

:-(The pictures aren't showing.:-(


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fHFoAOHHHrtYDXGr6MZbQw0Uwg4KZpHPYXp3DMxgWkc/edit?usp=sharing


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Maybe these will show up. What a cutie!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thank you, Celeste!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Bubbles is still doing good. His eyes just opened.  He is 8 days (at least) now. He sucks by himself, I had to force feed the first couple days but now he latches right on.


JW what you mean by "force feed". If they don't want to nurse they won't nurse and short of tube feeding them you can't "force feed".


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

She probably means forcing the bottle nipple into the mouth. I have done that plenty of times.

She could have tube fed them. Don't know.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, forcing the nipple into their mouth. My cat is sooo cute with him!


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Good for you for helping those little ones! They're adorable.

I would not have left them either, at least you have given them a chance.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Actually you can force feed. I had to force feed all three of mine for the first 4 or 5 times until they got hungry enough that they decided to stop being stubborn (KMR is not as yummy as mom milk apparently) with a syringe. Risky, but it was that or die. I'd squirt a bit very slowly onto their tongue, wait til they swallowed, and do more. Worked just fine and they did eventually learn to drink correctly.

Bubbles is very cute! I agree with you on his age estimation. That is the size my babes were at 8-9 days.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks everyone! KitKat(his new mommy) loves the kitten formula too so when I feed him, if some dribbles out of his mouth she is right there to lick it.  They are soooooo cute together. She won't let him get a foot or two away from her before she gets up and picks him up and goes back to their bed.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

It's neat that your cat has adopted him. That will help him learn the thing he needs to learn, and hopefully comfort him. I've noticed one of my kitten comfort nurses on blankets and misses her mom a lot. Makes me sad. Lucky little Bubbles!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yeah, he "nurses" on her all the time, makes me laugh because they both think they are getting something out of it.  She's a good momma.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Endiku said:


> Actually you can force feed. I had to force feed all three of mine for the first 4 or 5 times until they got hungry enough that they decided to stop being stubborn (KMR is not as yummy as mom milk apparently) with a syringe. Risky, but it was that or die. I'd squirt a bit very slowly onto their tongue, wait til they swallowed, and do more. Worked just fine and they did eventually learn to drink correctly.
> 
> Bubbles is very cute! I agree with you on his age estimation. That is the size my babes were at 8-9 days.


Shrug neither of those are "force feeding" imo as the kitten can easily not swallow, etc.

Obviously risky and not ideal though.

IME (not with cats though I would assume the same) you always need to "force" bottle feeding the first few times as naturally they do not drink from bottles lol.

O/T I was just curious


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

That is wonderful that your other cat is willing to mother him! As others have said, there is something about their own kind that we just cannot replicate. Having a momma (real or adopted) can hugely increase bottle babies' odds for survival. My male GSD loved helping me with kittens. I really think that there was something about him helping clean and warm them that really made a big difference. Now that his eyes are open, make sure to watch for infections. Sometimes they can get an eye or upper respiratory infection that can cause their eyes to try to seal shut again. If you see that, make sure to clean his eyes gently with warm moist cotton or similar several times a day to keep them open.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Glad to hear KitKat has adopted him, and Bubbles is so cute.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks everyone! One of his eyes sealed shut again but I cleaned it off with KitKat's help and it is back open. It's amazing the change in him after she started mothering him. He is so much more fluffy and soft!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

When can I start giving him kitten cereal? I ordered some that should get here by the 27th along with some more formula (he eats so much ) He will be 2 weeks (at least) tomorrow. I am going to mix the cereal with formula so it is still semi liquid and then slowly put more and more of the cereal and less of the formula but when can I start?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

(Usually, they have a mom and I will just leave out some soaked dry kitten food for the entire time and they test it out when they are ready) Can't really do that here.


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## my horse (May 23, 2013)

We had three kittens born in our barn. we found them in all the hay when they where just born, so we left them there and there Mom was coming back and feeding them for a while, but then she stopped coming back to them and that is when we took them in our house, cause it was getting cold and they weren't getting fed any more. But when we brought them in they where old enough to eat normal food. They are the best cats we have ever owned!!!! They sometimes act more like a dog then a cat. normally cats don't seem to do as good in a larger family but I have seven other siblings and they are still doing great! two are short haired silver tabby's and the other one was a long haired silver tabby.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

Just saw and read through this! Bless your heart for trying to help!
I would love to see pics of him with Kitkat!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> When can I start giving him kitten cereal? I ordered some that should get here by the 27th along with some more formula (he eats so much ) He will be 2 weeks (at least) tomorrow. I am going to mix the cereal with formula so it is still semi liquid and then slowly put more and more of the cereal and less of the formula but when can I start?


You've got several more weeks..

Please do NOT leave the soaked food out... it will get gross pretty quick.

Has he seen a vet yet?

How much does he weigh? How much/often are you feeding him?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

He's 170 grams. Feed every 3 hours now. Will take pics of him with KitKat. I would leave the food out because their mom would eat it before it got gross.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Yeah, no kitten 'cereal' yet (I'm assuming you mean like Second Step KMR?). You should not ever feed the thicker foods by bottle (it even says so on the can) so he needs to be lapping milk by himself before you even begin it  my babies started lapping from a shallow dish at about 4 1/2 weeks, and now they're 6 1/2 weeks and just starting to eat canned food mixed with KMR. They'll be switched to soaked dry food gradually at about 8 weeks. Your guy has at least two more weeks of strictly bottle feeding before you do anything new.

At 170 grams he sounds kind of small if I'm converting right. That's about 7 oz right? At 2 weeks my babies (of course it does differ from kitten to kitten) were 9-11 ounces each, and at 4 weeks they were 19 oz, 17 oz, and 17 oz. How much is he currently drinking? Mine drank about 40 ml a day at that point. Every 3 hours seems about right for his age. 

Sounds like you're doing your best  kittens are a lot of work. It gets easier (and messier) when they can lap milk on their own.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

I have no experience with bottle babies but, I would think he is way to young to even think about feeding anything but formula. He's barely over a week old.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

What endiku said. Feeding babies this young any solid or meshy foods is just begging for aspiration.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

At least 4 weeks old before trying anything other than his formula.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

He drinks about 5 ml per feeding. 7 times a day, so probably 35ml a day. He feels a good weight. Maybe my scale is off?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Found a veterinary chart that says the kitten should be 7oz at 2 weeks and be getting 56cc per day (cc=ml). Obviously 35 is WAY less then that so do a little research and see if that's the appropriate amount... The research I'm getting (from multiple sources) says 8 ml per oz of body weight. So 8x6=48, you are doing 35.

Probably why he's small right now.

You can't judge baby weight the same way as you would an adult. They won't get fat or thin at this point, so "feels good" doesn't mean anything.

The most important day to day thing at this point is keeping on top of that. Right now he just needs to grow and food=growth. This is the most important time for growth too.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

If normal is 7 oz her kitten is actually fine and mine are just fat. hahaha. As long as he isn't skinny (can't feel his shoulder blades, spine etc) and he's being offered more than he will eat, that's about all you can do. When they're done, they're done. Definitely continue feeding him at 3 hour intervals. Their bellies are so tiny at this age. Sometimes if you give him a 5 minute break then offer the bottle again they'll drink a little more. It's optimal for him to drink more of course but each baby is different. My kittens are actually probably too fat right now, but they still tell me their starving to death when I go in for meal time. >.> little chunks are each a bit over 1 1/2 lbs already. They grow FAST.

For reference these were my guys at Bubble's age. Maybe you can tell if he looks normal by referring to them, since they've been closely monitored by the vet since day 1 (not because they necessarily needed it but because I brought them with mama to her 2x a week appts, and they were checked each time). The one on the right was a total fatso til he started walking. A skinny kitten will have almost no discernable belly, whereas a healthy one will have a small bulge (not pear shaped though)

Is he trying to belly crawl around a bit yet?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

He definitely belly crawls...everywhere. I feed him as much as he will take which just happens to be around that amount. Today, I got him to eat 5ml. I have started filling the bottle and letting him go at it until he won't anymore. He definitely has a belly.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Exciting news! I have been posting my story on Facebook, and a member of a local rescue sanctuary saw it and asked me to work with them, taking care of all the orphan kittens!!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Careful what you sign up for! haha. Caring for orphans is fun but also super labor intensive as you've seen with just one. Imagine taking on a full litter! I love kittens and love the process of watching them grow up, but I could not be a full timer. I am absolutely exhausted by mine right now. lol


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Exciting news! I have been posting my story on Facebook, and a member of a local rescue sanctuary saw it and asked me to work with them, taking care of all the orphan kittens!!


I would wait and get some more experience under your belt, this might sound harsh but... remember, you lost two of the babies, and while that's unavoidable sometimes you don't want to get yourself into a sticky or sad situation caring for other orphan kittens...

Perhaps you can work with the rescue and mentor for some time, until you're a bit older?


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

My daughter got into the cat rescue business. She ended up stuck with 18 cats of her own. She had to relocate due to cat restriction laws. Her cats are happy and extremely well cared for; however, they take up all of her discretionary income.

She rehabilitated and rehomed several hundred cats, but she also went through a lot of heartbreak. If you get tangled up with the rescue crowd, be sure to keep it small scale.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I agree. I worked for a rescue bottlefeeding litters AND rehabilitating cats that were feral and dangerous. When something went askew or an animal died they came after me with a vengeance. 

I one time lost an entire litter because they just couldn't survive. I gave it my all but both me and two other vets agreed that there was something wrong with them and no matter how much time I would have given and what else I would've done could have saved them. When the rescue was notified I recieved some very nasty emails and phone calls and they even called AC on me for animal abuse. 

Luckily the two vets, AC officer and many others told the rescue they were full of it so I wasn't in any trouble. However I am always hesitant to care for high risk medical animals due to that fact. Especially with you being a minor. 

Now that I do my rescues and rehab on a small scale I'm much happier. Why don't you start working with local TNR groups first? That was very rewarding, and I really got heavily involved with several colonies.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I am doing a little bit of both. Someone is bringing me 5 kittens they found in a haystack today. Rescue has nothing to do with it, just me and her. But, when the rescue needs a emergency home, I will be there to help out. People have been contacting me asking me to take their kittens they found some in a well, haystacks, etc.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Just be sure you've got homes for all of them. You WILL become a dumping ground for these people's cats. Trust me. I had people leave about 40 at my house. Also add in the fact that you can't save them all. Try to set up a network with people who have more experience so that they can take in the most critical care cases. (They will probably also have more influences with a vet to be able to provide medical care). Instead of trying to do it yourself set up a network of experienced people and people who are less experienced (like yourself). That way it's spread out evenly and the kittens have a better chance.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

As long as the local rescue will be working alongside with you, and helping you out... I think that's great! But, I agree, just make sure that they are there to also help you, too, and not to just dump more unwanted cats/kittens on you, and then not offer any assistance if/when you need it. I have a friend who works with a cat rescue, it's hard work, and sad work, but worth it.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

And sometimes it costs a heck of a lot too  I seem to get all of the expensive cases. I treat every rescue like my own, and my current set of kittens and their mom have cost me well over $475 between litter, KMR, the mom's crazy medical bills and euthenasia bill, bottles, eye infection medication, worming, etc....and I'm about to spend even more of flea medication for them. I had no idea what it was going to cost me to take these guys in. Luckily I do have a little disposable income and have been able to provide it, but taking rescues in is not cheap.

Then the kittens had fleas which they gave to my dog, who is HIGHLY allergic and developed an abscess from a bite that had to be drained, shaved, cleaned, etc by the vet, and now he has to take steroids and antibiotics.... ugh. 

I absolutely love rescuing small scale, and I wouldn't trade it for the world. I've rehabbed and rehomed 22 animals now myself, but just be prepared financially. Those kittens are going to need vaccinations, worming, flea meds, etc at very least, and will go through a can of KMR in 3 days once they hit the age mine are at. Rescue is a great thing to do but make sure you're ready.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

^Yeah I always joke that I live on ramen noodles, PB and crackers and water when I've got any rescue in! :lol: Honestly I wish when I first started I'd have realized how much (at the time I was lucky enough to get healthy animals), now it's just crazy. 

And don't forget people bills too! I had a couple of semi feral cats come in, we were working on socialization and everything was going good till one started foaming at the mouth several days later. After a trip to the vet, a euthanazia and paying about $900 just on myself for my rabies shots I get a lab result back from the autopsy that said it didn't have rabies...... Unfortunately it's a fact of rescue that at some point doctor bills for yourself will come in due to some reason or another, in addition to the bills for the animals!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks guys! Four kittens were dropped off today. Probably between 4-6 weeks, and boy are they wild! I can't get within 4 feet of them!


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Are the kittens free of potentially contagious diseases? Have they been seen by a vet yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

alexischristina said:


> Are the kittens free of potentially contagious diseases? Have they been seen by a vet yet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They will be needing their shot series starting soon.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm mostly curious because if they are totally wild, and they haven't been seen by a vet then who knows what they might be bringing into OP's house and spreading to her other cats...


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

If they're from outside, they need to all be tested for FLIV and FIV at 4 months old- no younger than that though, as that can create a false positive. That's what I'm waiting to do for my little ones since their mama was positive. It only passes by blood or utero, but that still leaves a risk. Many outdoor cats are positive, even if they look healthy, so it is definitely necessary. You can't start vaccinating until 8 weeks old. Worming can start at 2 weeks but only by a vet.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Endiku said:


> If they're from outside, they need to all be tested for FLIV and FIV at 4 months old- no younger than that though, as that can create a false positive. That's what I'm waiting to do for my little ones since their mama was positive. It only passes by blood or utero, but that still leaves a risk. Many outdoor cats are positive, even if they look healthy, so it is definitely necessary. You can't start vaccinating until 8 weeks old. Worming can start at 2 weeks but only by a vet.


Pretty sure ours does the first shots at 6 or so. Regardless they need an appointment and the vet can recommend a time for shots.

While I am rooting for the OP I really don't think she knows what she's getting into (I'm assuming she also still plans on breeding her mare) and I am personally questioning the judgement of throwing kittens at an unsupervised (in this regard) kid to rescue with the experience of one kitten, or maybe just an easy way to get rid of them? I don't know any responsible adults who would do that. :?

Ebony- you are not actually rescuing them unless you are seeing and working with a vet. I know it costs money and time and travel but it is what you NEED to do to do right by these kittens. I hope they don't have diseases that spread to your own cats. It's not unlikely.

My sister works at a vet's office and sent me pictures the other day of a 5 day old kitten that was being bullied and needed bottle feeding. The reputable rescue brought the kitten to the vet's to find a foster knowing that was the best bet for the kittens survival (the tech took the kitten home).

I must say OP, I admire you for being willing to get no sleep pretty much every single night. You are making me feel old over here!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Haha, thanks guys! They are free of disease. Thankfully. The one I am bottlefeeding I think I have got a home for. I make sure to ask money for them so they don't go to just anyone. This guy in particular I asked a lot more than I felt comfortable with just because I have already spent over a hundred on him and I'm a teen with no job. I need to make up as much of that as I can. So, I think he will have home waiting for him when he is old enough! May have found a home for one of the older ones too! They are getting better. The one I may have found a home for is letting me carry her around and everything. The other ones do sometimes but still hiss occasionally.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I think you're at the beginning of a valuable lesson. These rescues are going to cost you a LOT of money - please don't bank on people giving you lots of $$$ to adopt, to make back your costs. Yes, it's good to ask something so they don't go to just anyone, you're right there, but there are only so many people willing to shell out the money, and you wont ever make everything back.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Have they been actually tested? FIV/FLIV positive kittens look very healthy
for a while.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes. I know, I am planning on losing money, I'm doing it because I love cats and kittens, not to get money.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Guess this means you'll have no money for your grand idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm an animal lover too but you need to have money before you can throw it away. 

Well I do think it's a smart idea to have an adoption fee I know I personally wouldn't pay it in those circumstances (I would at a genuine shelter) and many people wouldn't? because why pay for a kitten when you can get a free kitten?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Also make sure they either go with a friend or to another cat household. If they do go in their own make sure it's the perfect home but I'd also wait until the kitten was older 3-4 months to ensure proper socialization


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I think it's fine to charge a small $20 fee or so, just so you're not getting someone entirely irresponsible. But I agree that it is highly unlikely you'll get more than that, since even shelter cats are usually $35-60 and are vaccinated, wormed, deflea-d, and neutered/spayed. These kittens will have had pretty much none of that.

It's very kind of you to be willing to give up a lot for them and I definitely understand. There is absolutely no way I will ever get back what I've put into my kittens but I've done it anyways. Sometimes it's just what you have to do. Just make sure you're in the right financial situation before taking any more because otherwise you could end up with some real trouble.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I sold two kittens for $40 each today. Used that money to get one neutered and buy another kennel.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Good for you! $40..is a good middle price.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yeah, luckily, my parents gave me permission to turn the garage into a cat rescue because I have become a drop off point. :/ That quick. I was just web surfing and on facebook and someone messages me all like, "Oh, I'm bringing you 10 kittens tomorrow. Thanks!" Well. Okay. And 5 of those need to be bottle fed. I thought I was almost done bottle feeding for right now!  I have 9 right now (3 are being bottle fed, 2 weaned kittens that I am rehoming, 1 spayed female ready for new home, 1 neutered male ready for new home, 1 female and 1 male that need to be fixed before new home) And ten coming today and another 10 or so Thursday...


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

It just gets worse. Trust me, been there, done that, I have the cats AND the T Shirt to prove it. And honestly half of the 'rescued' kittens you'll get are just litters that people don't want to take care of. Hate to be a pessimist but it is what it is. 

Remember you stop 'rescuing' when you cannot provide medical care to all of your animals. There's no shame in saying "No" when it's for the best. I really do think you need to spend a lot of time thinking. Doing this to this extent means virtually no "you" time. Also be careful, all it takes is one 'hot' cat with a disease and you cannot take anymore in or rehome them. 

What about the mom of your first litter? At this point you'd be doing more good by catching her, spaying her and attempting socialization rather than letting her produce.......


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

We haven't seen her since. I don't know... I am perfectly fine with no "me" time as long as I have animals. I have always been a fanatic with animals. I know that some of the rescues aren't actually rescues. :/ I'm doing it to help them out, though, and it still helps.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

I think what you are doing is a kind and wonderful thing. 

I'm not sure why a few people on here are giving you such a hard time, it's what you want to do, and so far it seems to be going well for you. I have a friend who rescues cats and kittens, she has upwards of 15 or 20. Heck yes, it costs money, my friend has spent hundreds and thousands of dollars out of her own pocket... anything worth doing has a cost. 

People shouldn't criticize others for trying to do some good in the world, especially to help animals. There is no harm in trying.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks, Remali! That means a lot!


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Remali I don't think I've seen anyone criticizing the OP or giving her a hard time. 

I think people have been giving suggestions and 'words of wisdom' as we've been there, made that particular mistake and are warning against it. I don't think that I would consider that criticism. 

Believe me :lol: I have no right to criticize as I've got a herd of cats, dogs, rats, and horses that are all rescues. OP I realize some of my responses may come out a bit harsh but I'm just a blunt individual and don't mince words. lol don't mistake that for me not respecting what you're doing. Lord knows I'm still doing it haha.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

I've been following and need to comment. Testing has been mentioned several times now. Of course, testing babies is not trustworthy, so that isn't really feasible. What I hope you are doing is keeping the different "families" separated. I had an experience with Feline Leukemia. Killed every single cat. That was before the vaccination was created. It still hurts. I went several months before I would touch or let any cat near my place. 
You do not want to go through what I did.:-(


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Incitatus32 said:


> Remali I don't think I've seen anyone criticizing the OP or giving her a hard time.
> 
> I think people have been giving suggestions and 'words of wisdom' as we've been there, made that particular mistake and are warning against it. I don't think that I would consider that criticism.
> 
> Believe me :lol: I have no right to criticize as I've got a herd of cats, dogs, rats, and horses that are all rescues. OP I realize some of my responses may come out a bit harsh but I'm just a blunt individual and don't mince words. lol don't mistake that for me not respecting what you're doing. Lord knows I'm still doing it haha.


Oh, I do agree with you.... what I said wasn't directed at you.  And I sure can relate to being blunt, ha, I'm pretty much known for being very blunt. All's good.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Oh lol sorry, I was just confused. I have a love/hate with the internet because of the lack of tone


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Right- they can't be tested until 4 months. I said that ^_^ which is why you have to be extra diligent with kittens. You can't possibly know what they have- they may look 100% healthy but carry the disease, and all it takes is one bite. Since mine aren't old enough for testing I do not let them around my house cat; only my dogs, because I seen what FIV does and is absolutely HORRIBLE. I tried so hard to save their mama, who was FIV positive and in the later stages where her immune system has been eaten down to nothing. No cat deserves that. 

Ebony, careful. 20+ kittens? That is a LOT of kittens to socialize, feed, rehome, keep seperate, etc. They aren't getting shots or worming or anything before rehoming are they? Make sure people know that or they could pass some nasty stuff to everyone's other house cats without anyone even knowing. Glad you're trying to help but every person has their limit and 20+ and no job is not a problem of time, it is a problem of finances. What is one gets an eye infection (very common) and needs antibiotics? And it spreads to other kittens? You need to have available finances for that. I definitely suggest not taking in any more kittens than that until you're down to one or two again, otherwise things will go bad fast if anyone gets sick or is sick already, or has fleas, or worms. That is a lot of animals in very close quarters!


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## Purplelady (Dec 6, 2014)

Hello . I am really SORRY about being a pest but please can you tell me how your wee kitten is doing PLEASE I know you said in the above add so I am sorry for rightly asking out right . Hope the wee one is doing great still . Take care from Purplelady
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Sorry for no updates, he is still doing great. I had some newborn kittens come in the other day and it made me realize just how much he has grown! He is like 3 times the size when I found him!  A pregnant 6 month cat came in, had premature kittens and wouldn't take them in. Wouldn't snuggle or anything, so I sent them to one of my rescue friends who is going to put them on her mama cat.


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## Purplelady (Dec 6, 2014)

Hello . Thank you VERY MUCH for letting me know how the wee one is doing and sorry about being a pest . Your doing a great job . I will stop now as I know you will be busy with the wee one. Purplelady
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Oh, you are just fine, Purplelady.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Incitatus32 said:


> Remali I don't think I've seen anyone criticizing the OP or giving her a hard time.
> 
> I think people have been giving suggestions and 'words of wisdom' as we've been there, made that particular mistake and are warning against it. I don't think that I would consider that criticism.
> 
> Believe me :lol: I have no right to criticize as I've got a herd of cats, dogs, rats, and horses that are all rescues. OP I realize some of my responses may come out a bit harsh but I'm just a blunt individual and don't mince words. lol don't mistake that for me not respecting what you're doing. Lord knows I'm still doing it haha.


You are also an experienced adult with a paying job correct?

I am definitely trying to be supportive of the OP and trying to help but at the same time I don't think she realizes what she's getting into and can see things "hitting the fan" at some point. I am ALL for rescuing and being the crazy cat lady- if you know what you're getting into and are 100% prepared (that includes financially) to go all the way.

Your horses will go on the back burner too, which is fine if that's what you want but it means not breeding your mare.

So any "criticism" on my part is well intention-ed guidance and I hope the OP is taking it as such though I am a little skeptical of the overall situation simply due to facts; that doesn't mean I don't support the OP and wish her the best with this! Any "criticism" comes from concern and honestly I do, in a practical sense, find this a concerning situation.

Thought, since the OP is not a licensed rescue what is the legal aspect of having 30+ cats in a garage? Especially ones that are unvaccinated/tested and such (though I understand some are too young they should at least be having regular vet check ups). Please check on that, it would be a pretty lousy way for things to end.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Yes I am lol my parents probably would have tanned my hide if I wasn't! I agree with you 110% Yogiwick. 

And yes, when you start hitting double digits it becomes very concerning. OP from my experience you only take in the number of animals you can keep in GOOD health for the rest of their life. If you don't you'll quit being a rescue and you'll start being a burden to those of us who are rescuing.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Incitatus32 said:


> Yes I am lol my parents probably would have tanned my hide if I wasn't! I agree with you 110% Yogiwick.
> 
> And yes, when you start hitting double digits it becomes very concerning. OP from my experience you only take in the number of animals you can keep in GOOD health for the rest of their life. If you don't you'll quit being a rescue and you'll start being a burden to those of us who are rescuing.


"you only take in the number of animals you can keep in GOOD health_ for the rest of their life_"

A very good way to put it and something I think we ALL need to remember (I know I am guilty of "just one more"!)


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

As of right now, I am still in single digits. I sold another kitten today. So I have...4, plus Bubbles(kitten I am bottle feeding) so 5. I have a mama cat with her 4 5 week old babies coming tomorrow so that will make it ten, but I also have somone looking at some cats tomorrow.


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