# Horse kicks at me in the round pen!



## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

I have a 4 yr old gelding that has no manners in the round pen. 

He kicks at me when I try to make him trot. He has wonderful manners in halter, but NOT in the round pen. It seems when I hit the whip on the ground at him, that's when he starts kicking, but if I don't, he just stands there. I tried using a leadrope but he still kicks at it. If I try with my hands, he just looks at me like im crazy! I have NEVER hit him hard with a whip and I only tap him. I can do join up with him but it takes about 5 tries.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated!!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Hereby lies your problem, never hitting him with the whip!

I can assure you that of any horse kicked out at me whether lungeing on a line or in a round pen then it would get that whip wrapped around its back legs so hard it would think twice about doing it again. 

Your horse is totally disrespectful in the pen and needs to learn otherwise.


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> Hereby lies your problem, never hitting him with the whip!
> 
> I can assure you that of any horse kicked out at me whether lungeing on a line or in a round pen then it would get that whip wrapped around its back legs so hard it would think twice about doing it again.
> 
> Your horse is totally disrespectful in the pen and needs to learn otherwise.


My friend has tried to get at him but he just gets madder! She couldn't get close enough to touch him with the whip because he was kicking at her so hard! I don't believe in whipping horses but thankyou for your reply!


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

SO, from your friend he has learned that he can successfully be the biggest, meanest, bossiest horse of the bunch towards at both you AND another human. All he's learning is to be bigger and badder to get his way and to be a bigger booger until someone puts a stop to it and teaches him the error of his ways. Do you have any experienced horsepeople in your area who know how to properly wield a whip and train a horse to re-teach him some manners? He's taking what you're ineffectively dishing out and one-upping you. This is a very dangerous thing that will eventually come out in other ways that end with a human getting hurt. He needs to learn that his behavior is unacceptable. Full Stop.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> My friend has tried to get at him but he just gets madder! She couldn't get close enough to touch him with the whip because he was kicking at her so hard! *I don't believe in whipping horses but thankyou for your reply!*


This is why you're having the problem you're having. Your horse is showing total disrespect, to the point of becoming dangerous.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If you have the correct equipment, especially a lunge whip then you do not have to get close to a horse but can use it whilst at a safe distance.

I do not believe in whipping horses either. 

More importantly I do not believe in horses kicking at me. I know three people who were either killed or seriously injured to the point of being incapacitated for life from kicks. I would rather give a horse the fright of his life with a crack from a _lunge_ whip than be seriously hurt. 

If you horse was respectful of you then he would be so in the round pen. 

Taking it one step further if you want to go the 'natural' way, how would your horse be treated if he were to kick at a more dominant horse in the herd? 

I will tell you he would be kicked back at _hard and fast_ - the possible injury from another horse is greater than a crack with a whip.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Agree! He needs a come to jesus meeting. A horse that kicks at me would be thrown back into last week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

So I just need to start getting mean to him? I have sucsefully trained three other horses on how to be respectful in the round pen, but I can't get control of him. I never let him stop until he makes five rounds in each direction with no kicking, but it's like I'm starting new every time. Btw he doesn't kick as much when I pit a saddle on him.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Not mean, you still should be fair. But if he challenges you like that, you can't back down and let him get away with it. If he kicks out at you, get after him for it. Get big, get loud, and yes you may have to whip him. What he is doing is not acceptable at all.


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

O and I forgot to add that he has been whipped when my friend was in there but he just flips out even more and he had a mark on his coat from it. She still made him do what she wanted to in the end though.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I do not think that either you or your friend are use to dealing with a horse such as this. 

For your safety get someone in who can teach this horse manners.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Have you tried something that makes noise instead of hitting him?
Plastic bag tied to a crop, rocks in a milk jug, tapping him on his side instead of his rump?
It is common for a horse to kick when hit on the rumpus.


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## sea (May 15, 2014)

My first horse started to become disrespectful of me in the round pen. I was just a kid at the time, so I didn't think much of it...until her hoof missed my head by an inch. I felt the wind of it as it went by my head. She didn't just get a come to Jesus meeting, she thought she was meeting Satan for good. And she NEVER tried that crap with me again.

These are 1000lb animals that could easily kill us in a misunderstanding. You can't afford to "not believe in whipping" in that situation. Either you can cause your horse enough discomfort to not ever try that again, or you can get your skull dented in. I pick the former, personally.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

I agree with the other posters, ideally you need hands on instruction on how to deal with his behavior and you need to be much more firm. 

You will have a much better relationship with your horse if you do get more firm with him. He sees himself as more dominant than you, he kicks at you and you stop what you're doing. At this point you are lucky that he has only progressed to kicking at the air in front of you. Nobody wants you to be mean to your horse. We just want you to be safe, and in order to do that, you MUST be the dominant one in your relationship. 

You should ask him to go, by pointing the direction you want, then cluck, then swing your whip at him ( Not the ground, not behind you etc), and take big steps toward him while still swinging it. If you have to, yes crack him on the bum. As soon as he goes forward (Without pinning an ear, kicking, swishing his tail etc) leave him alone. If he does kick at you at any point, crack him on the bum. He will NOT take it personally, or have hurt feelings about it.

The reason he has continued to kick out when you have tried to discipline him in the past is because it's inconsistent. He knows if he keeps up that behavior, you will stop eventually. Once you have been consistent and keep the rules for him the same, that will go away.


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

BreakableRider said:


> I agree with the other posters, ideally you need hands on instruction on how to deal with his behavior and you need to be much more firm.
> 
> You will have a much better relationship with your horse if you do get more firm with him. He sees himself as more dominant than you, he kicks at you and you stop what you're doing. At this point you are lucky that he has only progressed to kicking at the air in front of you. Nobody wants you to be mean to your horse. We just want you to be safe, and in order to do that, you MUST be the dominant one in your relationship.


Thank you and he has always been sort of pushy, but never tries to run over me kick me or bite me except kicking in the roundpen. He isn't even allowed to come near his feed bucket until I leave. I guess I am just used to my filly that is scared to death of the whip and I've never even hit her with it. I have trained him by myself - when I got him at 6 months old, he had never been touched. He is very good at listening to aids when being ridden - I can ride him with just a rope around his neck. But I will take ALL advice into consideration


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> Thank you and he has always been sort of pushy, but never tries to run over me kick me or bite me except kicking in the roundpen. He isn't even allowed to come near his feed bucket until I leave. I guess I am just used to my filly that is scared to death of the whip and I've never even hit her with it. I have trained him by myself - when I got him at 6 months old, he had never been touched. He is very good at listening to aids when being ridden - I can ride him with just a rope around his neck. But I will take ALL advice into consideration


With horses, even that little bit of pushyness means quite a bit to him. That's where it all starts. A horse will see if they can take a step into your space without a correction. When they get away with that they may try bringing their head quite a bit into your space or using their shoulder to get you to back up a step. Even if you don't ever get a 'big' sign like a horse pinning their ears at you, those little things are the same thing to a lesser degree. That is the origin of him kicking at you in the round pen.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

One post your friend couldn't get close enough to the horse to use the whip. A few posts later a friend is leaving welts on your horse.

No wonder the poor animal is kicking out. He is dangerously confused, irritated, and believes he is above you. He is basically giving you the finger.

What are you making him do, or trying to accomplish, with your lunging sessions?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Perhaps your body language is telling him one thing while you expect another. As you ask him to move, just at the walk, turn you body a little in the direction you wish him to go. Hold your left hand (going to the left) straight out and at shoulder height to point the direction. Your whip hand will have the whip out to your side with the tip on the ground. Jiggle the whip up and down. He'll see it. Give him a chance to respond. If he starts to walk keep the whip still. He's doing as you asked. If he stops, just repeat. While he's walking he can think. Wind him up and he becomes reactionary (self defense). Keep it calm and accept small accomplishments. The reason you keep the whip still when he's walking is it relieves the pressure on him. If he doesn't move, move the whip a little closer and jiggle it again. Even if you get half a step, stop the whip. I should add, even tho you are in the round pen, use a knotted halter and lunge line. If he does kick out at you, yank his head hard. That knotted halter will hurt and he may think twice about kicking out again. If he's a little stupid, do it again if you have to. I doubt he'll want it to happen a third time but the really stupid ones do need it.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

With all due respect, you are in over your head. You have a young horse who has openly kicked at you. What is stopping him from chasing you down and trampling you? _Nothing._ He could do it at any time. You need to take a reality check and realize how dangerous of a situation you are in. It would be stupid and naive of you to think "oh he'd never actually kick me" or "he'd never run me over". He has already taken the steps to kick at you. There is nothing that would stop him from going farther to attack you. 



Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> He kicks at me when I try to make him trot. He has wonderful manners in halter, but NOT in the round pen.


I'm totally assuming here, but I would bet that he doesn't actually have wonderful manners outside the round pen. Horses aren't a switch. They don't turn on and turn off. If he's disrespectful in the round pen, I'll bet he's disrespectful elsewhere. 

Does he ever crowd you when you are leading him?
Does he ever spook and pull on the lead?
Will he freely go wherever you point him, and at any speed, while leading?
Etc. 

I'm sure there are holes somewhere. 



Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> It seems when I hit the whip on the ground at him, that's when he starts kicking, but if I don't, he just stands there. I tried using a leadrope but he still kicks at it. If I try with my hands, he just looks at me like im crazy!


Without seeing your lunging technique, you very well could be doing something wrong with your body position or body language. 

Are you sure you are behind his center of gravity when you ask him to move forward?
Are you able to control each piece of his body (shoulders, ribcage, hindquarters) simply with your body language?



Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> I have NEVER hit him hard with a whip and I only tap him.


How do you feel when a mosquito buzzes in your ear? You are REALLY annoyed, right? That is what your tapping does to him. Tap ... tap .... tap .... it annoys him. And he's telling you that by kicking out. 

There are very few things where I will seriously get after a horse for. And one of them is kicking. You can bet your **** that that horse will be thinking that he is doing to DIE when I come after him, if they tried to kick at me. They should be deathly afraid for their life. And I am not joking when I say that. Kicking is dangerous. Period. One landed on your head will kill you. One landed in your ribcage will puncture a lung and kill you. 

The horse needs to know that kicking at me is a wrong thing to do. And that he "will die" if he tries it. 



Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> Any tips would be greatly appreciated!!


Get a trainer. Someone who you can take lessons from and learn how to handle a horse with dangerous behavior. 

Based on your responses to the advice on this forum, I do not believe you are qualified to deal with this horse in a safe manner. He's only 4 years old and he's going to get bigger, and stronger, and the problem will escalate. 

I am saying all of this to you, *speaking from experience*. I couldn't see past my own nose, until my horse double barrel kicked me 15 feet. I was so very lucky that I got no more than a huge bruise on my thigh. He could have shattered my pelvis. He could have broken my ribs. I was a moron for not seeing the signs slowly develop, and me letting him get away with little things. Until he decided to kick at me. 

Don't let it happen to you too. 





Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> My friend has tried to get at him but he just gets madder! She couldn't get close enough to touch him with the whip because he was kicking at her so hard! I don't believe in whipping horses but thankyou for your reply!


If the horse deserves it, they need to be whipped. I'm not talking about lashing their skin open or anything of that nature, but they need to understand that kicking is not acceptable. 

You must realize that every time your horse is allowed to kick at a person and get away with it, you are making the habit deeper. Your friend was letting him get away with it because she was not able to stop him. 



Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> I have sucsefully trained three other horses on how to be respectful in the round pen, but I can't get control of him. I never let him stop until he makes five rounds in each direction with no kicking, but it's like I'm starting new every time.


3 horses is an accomplishment to be proud of .... but again, makes me seriously doubt your abilities to deal with a difficult and dangerous horse. 

I'm not sure how you make him go 5 rounds without kicking, when you can't stop him from kicking???? Sounds like he'll happen to go 5 rounds without kicking (with good luck) but you really aren't stopping or preventing him from kicking, because you can't. 




Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> O and I forgot to add that he has been whipped when my friend was in there but he just flips out even more and he had a mark on his coat from it. She still made him do what she wanted to in the end though.


I am confused as well. You just said above that your friend couldn't get near enough to him when he was kicking????? But now she was??? Please clarify. 




Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> Thank you and *he has always been sort of pushy*, but never tries to run over me kick me or bite me except kicking in the roundpen.


And that's what I was talking about earlier. Horses don't have perfect ground manners in one place and then all of a sudden are perfect in another. If he's disrespectful to you in the round pen (and it may be worse there), but he is disrespectful to you everywhere. 

You have let him get away with being pushy. Him being pushy has escalated to him kicking at you. You are currently letting him get away with kicking. So what's next? Again, what is stopping him from straight out attacking you?


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

I already KNOW that this is going to be seen as a radical idea before I even say it BUT - have you considered asking him to go forward in some manner more polite than "hitting the ground with the whip behind him"? 

I KNOW I KNOW! Some of you "come to Jesus meeting" people are going to think that I must be crazy. But let me ask you this - did that ever really make a horse trustworthy? After you've whipped and chased a horse for kicking to show him who's boss, did you ever feel like putting your kid on him? Or did you feel like "man I hated that, I wish I didn't _have to do this_ to my horse just to get along with him."?


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

beau159 said:


> I'm totally assuming here, but I would bet that he doesn't actually have wonderful manners outside the round pen. Horses aren't a switch. They don't turn on and turn off. If he's disrespectful in the round pen, I'll bet he's disrespectful elsewhere.
> 
> Does he ever crowd you when you are leading him?
> Does he ever spook and pull on the lead?
> ...


I have never had a problem with crowding while I am leading him
He is a pretty calm horse and rarely spools from anything and when he does, I am in total control
And he will go at any gait while leading and when he was young I would lead him through some obstacles and ditches and things and he will still do that. 


I can even make him lay down! 




beau159 said:


> Without seeing your lunging technique, you very well could be doing something wrong with your body position or body language.
> 
> Are you sure you are behind his center of gravity when you ask him to move forward?
> Are you able to control each piece of his body (shoulders, ribcage, hindquarters) simply with your body language?


All of my other horses seem to get my body language and I don't see why it would be any different with him. I look and face the hind quarters to get them to go forward and step in fron of the shoulder to change direction ect...


beau159 said:


> How do you feel when a mosquito buzzes in your ear? You are REALLY annoyed, right? That is what your tapping does to him. Tap ... tap .... tap .... it annoys him. And he's telling you that by kicking out.
> 
> There are very few things where I will seriously get after a horse for. And one of them is kicking. You can bet your **** that that horse will be thinking that he is doing to DIE when I come after him, if they tried to kick at me. They should be deathly afraid for their life. And I am not joking when I say that. Kicking is dangerous. Period. One landed on your head will kill you. One landed in your ribcage will puncture a lung and kill you.
> 
> The horse needs to know that kicking at me is a wrong thing to do. And that he "will die" if he tries it.


I do understand the dangers of this and am trying to find some help




beau159 said:


> I'm not sure how you make him go 5 rounds without kicking, when you can't stop him from kicking???? Sounds like he'll happen to go 5 rounds without kicking (with good luck) but you really aren't stopping or preventing him from kicking, because you can't.


He will go like 1 round and then start kicking again and I just step forward and tap him with the whip and hit it on the ground he will kick for about a minute and then start moving again and I don't do anything else with the whip until he starts kicking again



beau159 said:


> I am confused as well. You just said above that your friend couldn't get near enough to him when he was kicking????? But now she was??? Please clarify.


I was pretty much trying to prove a point that you can't get close enough to really get after him which I don't believe in doing but u can get a few good hits in there. It hurts me to see my baby boy getting whipped - I guess that's just my problem. And my friend is much older than me and is experienced with horses she trains for some people. And I didn't mean she left a whelp on him when I said the one whip left a mark on his fur, I just mean she got him good. I would kill if there was a whelp left on my horse after someone whipped him!



beau159 said:


> And that's what I was talking about earlier. Horses don't have perfect ground manners in one place and then all of a sudden are perfect in another. If he's disrespectful to you in the round pen (and it may be worse there), but he is disrespectful to you everywhere.
> 
> You have let him get away with being pushy. Him being pushy has escalated to him kicking at you. You are currently letting him get away with kicking. So what's next? Again, what is stopping him from straight out attacking you?



That is a good point I will really look for sighns of dominance the next time I do something with him, and he hasn't been seeming pushy at all. In fact he is in a pasture full of dominate mares so I would think he is used to having to move his feet for dominate horses.


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## sea (May 15, 2014)

Ian McDonald said:


> I already KNOW that this is going to be seen as a radical idea before I even say it BUT - have you considered asking him to go forward in some manner more polite than "hitting the ground with the whip behind him"?
> 
> I KNOW I KNOW! Some of you "come to Jesus meeting" people are going to think that I must be crazy. But let me ask you this - did that ever really make a horse trustworthy? After you've whipped and chased a horse for kicking to show him who's boss, did you ever feel like putting your kid on him? Or did you feel like "man I hated that, I wish I didn't _have to do this_ to my horse just to get along with him."?


If you have to whip the crap out of your horse every time you ever work with him to make him behave, then you are doing something very wrong. Pretty sure no one here is advocating to beat him into the ground every time he cocks an ear at you. If he's behaving, he doesn't get a come to Jesus meeting. "Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing difficult." 

I doubt that getting rid of the whip completely is going to instantly fix whatever is going on with this horse, as she has said that he kicks even when she isn't doing anything with the whip. If she can't figure out how to make her horse respect her, she needs to find a trainer who can teach her how to accomplish it.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Get video of you round penning him, then we can see your problem and correct it. Either you want free help & fix it or keep on doing the wrong thing and get really good at it. Your choice, your horse, you choose. All I know is when I was training horses for the public and a horse was dumbfounding me, I loaded that horse up in my trailer and took said horse & myself to a more experienced trainer to find the answer. And that lesson came out of my own pocket, here you are getting it for free, dang I would've been all over that 20 years ago! Sheesh, kids nowadays....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

waresbear said:


> Get video of you round penning him, then we can see your problem and correct it. Either you want free help & fix it or keep on doing the wrong thing and get really good at it. Your choice, your horse, you choose. All I know is when I was training horses for the public and a horse was dumbfounding me, I loaded that horse up in my trailer and took said horse & myself to a more experienced trainer to find the answer. And that lesson came out of my own pocket, here you are getting it for free, dang I would've been all over that 20 years ago! Sheesh, kids nowadays....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




I would but I am posting from my phone and it will not allow me to post pictures or videos, or if you know how to from an iPhone please tell me how- I'm not that good with technology :?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Post your video on YouTube then post the link on here. Don't use the mobile app go full site, it's easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

sea said:


> Pretty sure no one here is advocating to beat him into the ground every time he cocks an ear at you.


Yes. That would be just downright unreasonable.


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

Ok how's this, here's another way to put it. Sorry for just breaking in out of nowhere here. I'm just into the idea of trying to answer these questions. The reason that he's kicking out at you is because the energy that you're creating behind him as a way to ask him to go forward is highly disturbing to a horse. It makes them feel defensive and, eventually resentful. Especially if he's otherwise comfortable with you. He's not afraid of you, and that's why he'd rather kick you than move when you ask him in that manner. Try thinking of something tactful, when you ask him to move off. Actually, now that I think of it the best thing to do is not do round-penning anymore. That's the cause of the problem. The chief value of the round pen is to contain horses when they're fresh or unbroke and want to go too fast with you on them, so you can get control of them before riding out so they don't run you through a fence once you're outside. For a horse that's already essentially broke, you're just making him madder by the day. Horses don't like to run around round pens once they figure out what it's about, because they know they aren't going anywhere. It's 1000x better to find something that you can succeed at with the horse and do that instead.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> I would kill if there was a whelp left on my horse after someone whipped him!


How will you feel when he leaves more than a welt on a person who happens to try to work with him, or move him, or do anything he doesn't like? When he kicks and seriously injures or kills someone because he has learned that is an acceptable way to interact with people and make them do what he wants or stop doing something he does not like? All horses CAN kick (or bite, or strike, etc) of course, but yours has developed a habit of it that is very dangerous. And just as I would want a pro to help me with doing other dangerous things, having an experienced trainer used to dealing with dangerous horses will help this problem be solved sooner, more safely, and likely with MUCH less danger to horse and human. A horse that has seriously injured or killed someone is worth little more than meat, no matter what else it had going for it, and no matter what the 'special circumstances' are.

It sounds like you have invested a lot of time and training into this horse already, so do just a little more. Learning from a pro how to fix this challenging issue properly will increase both your skills and your horse's chances of returning to the realm of being a good citizen.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> So I just need to start getting mean to him? I have sucsefully trained three other horses on how to be respectful in the round pen, but I can't get control of him. I never let him stop until he makes five rounds in each direction with no kicking, but it's like I'm starting new every time. Btw he doesn't kick as much when I pit a saddle on him.



While you may think you successfully trained those other horses? I would be willing to bet many of us would see some problems with how they act in general.

And too, those horses might be more willing to just go along with the program too, and this one isn't.

Also, is he trained to ride? If so, then why are you doing all of this round penning anyway. Most horses don't need it once they are riding.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

"I was pretty much trying to prove a point that you can't get close enough to really get after him which I don't believe in doing but you can get a few good hits in there. It hurts me to see my baby boy getting whipped - I guess that's just my problem. And my friend is much older than me and is experienced with horses she trains for some people. And I didn't mean she left a whelp on him when I said the one whip left a mark on his fur, I just mean she got him good. I would kill if there was a whelp left on my horse after someone whipped him!"



He is not your baby boy. And just because your friend is older, doesn't mean she has a clue on what she is doing, I know quite a few wandering around that I wouldn't let train a cardboard box, much less a horse. The only ones that "think" those people do a great job, know less than they do.

This is a horse with a good hair coat, that will show marks if he brushes against a tree. You can scratch him and leave a mark. So being all dramatic about someone whipping him is ludicrous.

And you have confused somehow a horse being abused to the point of death, with one that has been made to behave and been firmly corrected. You do not have to beat them into the ground and bury them to get them to go along with the program.

You do however, have to know what you are doing when you come up against a horse like this.

Video is needed, but would imagine much of this is horse is sick of the round penning, and you are too timid to be working with a stronger willed horse.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If you have a lunge whip and _know_ how to use it, then you only need one good crack across the back legs. 

Constantly threatening by hitting the whip on the ground is nothing more than nagging at him and he is getting fed up with it knowing that you do not mean anything at all. 

This is leading him to knowing you are a push over and it will not take long before he takes more and more advantage.

A horse will take a correction even of it is hard, providing they have earned it and it is fair, meaning that the timing is right.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Subbing, I want to see the video.


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## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

thank you palomine--responded to exactly what i was going to--1000 lb horse is nobody's "baby"! 1000 lb horse that kicks is a trip to the ER waiting to happen or down the line a trip to mexico waiting for the horse!

tapping him is (as others have indicated) just annoying him----had a weanling tied up that kicked at a child walking by and for the fast count to 10 got the hock whipping of his life...same thing when he pulled an attempt to bite as a 2yr old--fist whipped his neck to the same count and walked away...was a stallion until the age of 6 and never showed aggression then or afterwards...but i made him think he was going to die for less than 30 seconds...never nagged him...a lead mare delivers her punishment and leaves it there! nagging a horse with taps of a whip or flicking your hand to shoo them is like another peer horse wanting to mock fight--horseplay--i do not know about you but i do not play with 1000 lb playmates!!!!


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

It will be a while before I can get a video in. It has been wet and rainy here for the past week and my round pen is not indoors. I don't want any slips so I probably can get a video by Wednesday if that's not too late.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I hear ya, monsoons here too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

For those people afraid of hurting their horse while trying to establish who is the boss, I always recommend people watch the Cloud wild horse videos on youtube. It's a great way to observe herd behavior. It may look like the horse is trying to kill his challenger- rearing, clashing teeth and hooves, using the shoulder to drive the other horse to the ground -but you need to know this is how horses communicate.

They will start with some posturing (asking the other horse to go away). If challenged, they will increase the pressure as much as needed. Some will leave after a few bites or kicks; others need the full GET AWAY treatment.

No one is saying to beat your horse to the ground, but you have to be the assertive one. If you can't do that, then horses are not for you! You can't be a horseman if you don't speak their language. They can't be that perfect horse if they don't understand you.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Boo Walker said:


> For those people afraid of hurting their horse while trying to establish who is the boss, I always recommend people watch the Cloud wild horse videos on youtube. It's a great way to observe herd behavior. It may look like the horse is trying to kill his challenger- rearing, clashing teeth and hooves, using the shoulder to drive the other horse to the ground -but you need to know this is how horses communicate.


Excellent point for the OP to consider. 

Look at a wild herd. When the lead stallion bites or kicks a horse when they get out of line .... do you think the stallion feels badly for hurting "its baby"? Do you think the horse's feelings are hurt because he got in trouble?

No and no. 

The stallion does what needs to be done because he is the boss and he is in charge. The herd member learned that they got in trouble and that they shouldn't do that again.

You need to be the stallion in your little herd of two. Discipline your horse when he needs it, in a way that he understand. Because right now .... you aren't. :?


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## PadenPaint (Apr 27, 2014)

you say he is good in a halter... are you using a halter and lunge line? or just free running him in the pen? if you are not using the halter and lunge line in the pen I would start now.
If he stops on the line and tries to kick in my general direction, I would pull that head towards me and get him moving forward NOW! I would make darn sure he knows that means extra work and lots of. I would get on that horse like white on rice and he would work his butt off until I decided he was done. 

good luck. my friend was kicked in the head and almost died, kicking is not taken lightly with me.


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

PadenPaint said:


> you say he is good in a halter... are you using a halter and lunge line? or just free running him in the pen? if you are not using the halter and lunge line in the pen I would start now.
> If he stops on the line and tries to kick in my general direction, I would pull that head towards me and get him moving forward NOW! I would make darn sure he knows that means extra work and lots of. I would get on that horse like white on rice and he would work his butt off until I decided he was done.
> 
> good luck. my friend was kicked in the head and almost died, kicking is not taken lightly with me.


I am just free running him, but I will try this and see how it works

Oh and I will not be able to get a video any time soon. My phone is going to be turned off because of certain circumstances tomorrow. Sorry about that.:-|


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## luvmyhorses (Feb 7, 2012)

A few years ago my horse didn't like me telling him what to do in his big paddock.. and I was just asking him to stay back as he turns and kicks at me almost kicking my head.. well I proceeded to move my horse's feet and every time he wanted to stop I moved his feet more.. until he realized I had the power.. never again did he try that... I use the same concept lunging.. I move his feet .. I never have to hit im with the whip but he knows if he pushed me I would immediately respond if that's what was needed.. and I just don't drive him around and around I cont ask him to release his haunches away facing me and then turning.. never ever haunches at me he is then asking for a slap...and by the way I love my guy Jessy amazing personality...


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## Flittr (May 21, 2014)

Hey I'm new to this site, found it today, but I agree with everyone above. I began learning how to round pen with a kicker. She's a four year old quarter horse that for the most part was a pasture ornament. When I started working with her she would park herself into the fence and kick out at me. Her owners told me she had a kicking problem but I didn't realize how bad it was until I asked her to move her feet.

Never in my life have I come across a horse as aggressive a kicker as her. You won't like spanking them but honestly it has to be done. She had gotten so used to kicking out and getting away with it that I had to spank her seven times, HARD, the first time I worked her before she decided that it would be better to move her feet instead of trying to strike out. (And that was one of many stop, stare out over the fence, kick. Kick like mad. Keep kicking. scenarios I had to go through every time I round penned her).

Did she get mad? Yes. Did I make her work her but off for giving me two heels? Yup. Did her kicking stop? You bet! It took a solid four sessions before she quite. Its not easy. You feel bad for wacking them so hard, but think about how dangerous it is for you to try to work around them! Kicking is my #1 unaccepted behaviour. Nessie (her nickname, I called her the loch ness monster for so long!) taught me that after I was dodging heels like matrix bullets. 

Last bit, gah I wrote too much, is don't get emotional. You cannot let anger or fear worm its way into the round-pen. If you become too afraid of him to try to work this through, find a trainer who can. Aggression won't help either, it only makes things worse when frustration muddles the mind. :hug:


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## Flittr (May 21, 2014)

Hey I'm new to this site, found it today, but I agree with everyone above. I began learning how to round pen with a kicker. She's a four year old quarter horse that for the most part was a pasture ornament. When I started working with her she would park herself into the fence and kick out at me. Her owners told me she had a kicking problem but I didn't realize how bad it was until I asked her to move her feet.

Never in my life have I come across a horse as aggressive a kicker as her. You won't like spanking them but honestly it has to be done. She had gotten so used to kicking out and getting away with it that I had to spank her seven times, HARD, the first time I worked her before she decided that it would be better to move her feet instead of trying to strike out. (And that was one of many stop, stare out over the fence, kick. Kick like mad. Keep kicking. Scenarios I had to go through every time I round penned her).

Did she get mad? Yes. Did I make her work her but off for giving me two heels? Yup. Did her kicking stop? You bet! It took a solid four sessions before she quite. Its not easy. You feel bad for wacking them so hard, but think about how dangerous it is for you to try to work around them! Kicking is my #1 unaccepted behaviour. Nessie (her nickname, I called her the loch ness monster for so long!) taught me that after I was dodging heels like matrix bullets. 

Last bit, gah I wrote too much, is don't get emotional. You cannot let anger or fear worm its way into the round-pen. If you become too afraid of him to try to work this through, find a trainer who can. Aggression won't help either, it only makes things worse when frustration muddles the mind. :hug:


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## Reigne (Mar 26, 2013)

Looking forward to video. 

In the meantime, I agree with what everyone else has been saying.


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