# Gun Nation?



## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

Hello everyone, well I live in Canada and I don’t know too many people who live in the US, most people who do are Canadians and go down for show seasons. Something that I have asked myself 1000 times and my family has asked. Why do Americans have so many guns? I’m asking this in a total “I have no idea so I’ll just ask because if I don’t I will never know” kind of way. 

Now, we have guns for hunting and yes like all major city’s we have gun violence and I’ve gone to a shooting range and it was a lot of fun but I’m asking because why is it that you can legally have an ak-47? Like.. that’s not a hunting gun…. 

I probably sound so ignorant, and I'm not trying to steriotype this is a general questions to the general population....but it is just is so confusing


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I can only speak for myself but I am much like you are yourself. We have guns for hunting. We have several shotguns and rifles but all are used for hunting. Most are my hubby's, I have 3 myself - a 20 gauge semi-auto shotgun for hunting pheasant & quail, a 12 gauge for deer hunting and a .22 for blapping unwanted pests around the farm (groundhogs and I aren't on good terms). 

As far as the AK goes, not positive but I believe it is only legal to own something like that if it's been converted to semi automatic vs full on machine gun. I don't know a single person that owns something like that other than the owner of the local applied ballistics shop and you can rent it to fire on the range with supervision (at a ridiculous rate).


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I have two guns, and neither are automatic weapons. One is my .3030 rifle for varmint shooting, and the other is my .38 handgun with a 4" barrel that I keep for personal protection.

Other than dispatching a few groundhogs and possums, the rifle is only fired for target practice. The handgun to date has only been used for target practice, and I fervently hope I never have to use it for anything else.

The majority of gun owners in the US aren't armed to the teeth. Some folks have more than their fair share, but I'd say even those people have them for hunting more than any other reason. 

The people who have automatic weapons tend to be criminals, as very few people have one 'just because'. They're pretty useless for anything except completely destroying a target. You'll never catch an avid hunter or a regular gun owning citizen with one of those.

We're no more bloodthirsty a nation than any other. We merely take the right to bear arms very seriously.


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## Houston (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm not a huge gun fanatic, but I'll share my own personal thoughts on the subject.

While AK-47s are a little overboard for my tastes, some people just like weapons. I know people who own several guns for the simple interest of the mechanics behind the gun or it's appeal.

I've shot several weapons myself and can say it's a whole lot of fun. I don't own any personal guns myself, but would consider it. Especially for my next point...

Protection. I'm fortunate to have lived in a safe area, but even the safest neighborhoods can have break ins. One of my biggest fears is to be threatened in my own house or to have what I have worked hard for stolen. For me, this is the most compelling reason to have a weapon.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I suggest you read the oral argument presented to the supreme court in Heller vs DC, and then read the Opinion the court issued.

Then read the same on McDonald vs Chicago.

The founding fathers found this to be an inalienable right, and the court agreed and ruled it an individual right.

The countries love of guns goes back to our founding fathers.

My handle, Gunslinger, goes back to a job I had in a large gun store.

I've had many Brits and other nationalities come and fondle guns they can't own, many, took pictures.

It's at that moment I realized, how uniquely american the gun store is.

Let Freedom ring.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

_'An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.' _

Yep, that's about right. :wink:


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

An AK-47 that is legal to own in America is a semi-automatic weapon, just as an AR-15 is a semi-automatic version of the M-16

Also a AK-47 is also a version of the SKS rifle, the AK-47 has a pistol grip where the SKS does not and the AK-47 is capable of holding more rounds.

Actually many people uses the SKS and AK-47 as a Deer rifle, it is comparable to a 30-30 rifle in range and knock down power.

The AR-15 is an awesome varmit rifle 

While both the AK-47 and AR-15 Civilian Versions can accommodate a 20 round magazine, most States only allow a 3 or 5 round magazine for Hunting. 
Now if you are out practicing or plinking, it is nice to have a 20 round magazine 

A famous quote goes something like this: When Guns are Outlawed only Outlaws will have Guns.




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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

... and there is not many things more fun that taking an old computer that has given you so much grief out in the middle of nowhere and shooting it up with an AR ...

... so I've heard....

*wink*


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

SouthernTrails, you're talking about semi-automatics, correct? I don't believe fully automatics are legal. Those are the ones I was talking about when I said the majority owned are by criminals. There's no reason to own a fully automatic weapon other than to completely obliterate someone or something.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

Houston said:


> I've shot several weapons myself and can say it's a whole lot of fun. I don't own any personal guns myself, but would consider it. Especially for my next point...
> 
> Protection. I'm fortunate to have lived in a safe area, but even the safest neighborhoods can have break ins. One of my biggest fears is to be threatened in my own house or to have what I have worked hard for stolen. For me, this is the most compelling reason to have a weapon.


haha this made me laugh a little for one, my dad said the same thing so he went out and bought a few guns (After practicing with different guns he finally bought 3 he felt comfortable with) and bought a gunlocker since all guns and ammo are techincally supposed to be stored in two different locked containers...well you need to remember to not forget your locker combo  or else its useless to get guns for home protection lol..needless to say my dad cant access his guns..so much for home protection were back to having dogs 

and two which isnt so funny, but the most accidents with guns are those that buy guns for home protection. which i find very ironic since most buy the guns for protection but then somehow the gun is used on a family member or something.

--------
on a side note i love the right to bear arms. i have 3 shotguns 1 rifle and 2 handguns and have a few archery weapons aswell. most of my stuff is used for hunting and the range for practice. and are all stored in lock boxes and hidden away so strangers and younger family members cant see them and get interested and try breaking the locks. :-x


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> SouthernTrails, you're talking about semi-automatics, correct? I don't believe fully automatics are legal. Those are the ones I was talking about when I said the majority owned are by criminals. There's no reason to own a fully automatic weapon other than to completely obliterate someone or something.


That is correct.

I was attempting to explain to the OP that all AK-47's are not fully Automatic, the Legal ones to own are semi-auto

While a pistol grip is nice and lager magazines can be nice, I prefer my SKS version over the AK-47, not to mention it is half the price 


As to the other part: When Guns are Outlawed only Outlaws will have Guns :wink:


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

A little clarification seems to be in order here...
Each state has its own rules and regulations on what is legal and what isn't.
Fully automatic firearms ARE legal to own if you have an NFA stamp for each one, and that includes suppressors too.
Arizona and Texas both have passed laws recently making it legal to hunt with a suppressor.
Firearms are something that people either enjoy, or despise, with little middle ground.
An AK-47 is a fantastic rifle, very capable for hunting purposes, extremely forgiving of neglectful care and cleaning, fairly inexpensive to shoot, and moderately accurate.
The AR platform (family) is a lot like Barbie for men. There are endless possibilities for customization and accessorizing that it boggles the mind.
What is the thinking behind owning these types of firearms?
I own them for a few reasons.
One, I love to shoot, hunt, and reload my own ammo.
I am also a firearms instructor.
The meat I bring home is the epitome of organic-no preservatives, hormones, or chemicals whatsoever. If you buy it in the store, you'd pay out the nose for it.
I avoid eating store bought meat for exactly that reason.
Did you know that real meat isn't red, its actually purple?
And fat isn't white, its a honey color?
Ever notice that our kids are reaching puberty at progressively younger and younger ages?
How about the health issues that seem to get progressively worse that can be traced to diets?
Back to the firearms mentality....
Criminals could care less about gun laws. They will be armed regardless of the laws on the books.
I am armed to protect myself, and my family against those threats.
When seconds count, a cop is only minutes away.
Its easier to carry a handgun than a cop.
Cheaper to feed too.
Firearms are the last line of defense against a tyrannical government.
A free man has the necessity and obligation to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, his family, and his nation. 
A firearm is the only tool that can level the field between a 300# crack head and a100#woman.
Think i'm full of it?
Ask the 87 year old grandma that just killed the 27 year old breaking into her house as she was getting dressed.
Ask the single mom of 3 kids whose husband had just been killed in Afghanistan about why she shot the tweaked out guys breaking into her home in the wee hours of the night.
As a firearms owner, the last thing I want to do is shoot anyone.
However, I am prepared to do just that if someone chooses to put me or my family into harms way.
Why these types of firearms? They are a whole lot of fun to own and shoot.
Are they necessary? Absolutely. 
Personally, I prefer bolt action guns over semi auto for the accuracy factors, but its hard to beat a semi auto for anything inside 300 yards.
Nobody is saying you have to own a gun.
However, don't argue with me that just because you don't see the need for such things, that I don't need to have them myself. 
That would be tantamount to me telling you that you don't need that luxury home, when a little shack would be just fine.
Or, better yet, you don't need that super comfortable custom saddle, when a bareback pad would work just fine.
Its a personal choice. One that is a very seriously contemplated and evaluated.
My parents are very anti gun people. My brother and I, however, have seen the evil that man can do, and are very pro gun.
I respect your decisions to live your life as you see fit.
All I ask is you do the same for me, and we'll get along fine.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

azwantapaint said:


> A little clarification seems to be in order here...
> Each state has its own rules and regulations on what is legal and what isn't.
> Fully automatic firearms ARE legal to own if you have an NFA stamp for each one, and that includes suppressors too.
> Arizona and Texas both have passed laws recently making it legal to hunt with a suppressor.
> ...



This is gold. Haha you sound like my husband :lol:

I was raised by a cop, in a very tight (as far as guns go) state (Illinois). My dad always had his gun on him, and always does. We have multiple guns in our house, we all know where they are. We are all older now, but even when we were younger we at least had a few. We were taught gun safety on a BB gun, and then taught to respect guns as tools.

My husband is a gun enthusiast as well. He is also in law enforcement. We own quite a few, some used for hunting, some for target shooting, some as collector items, and some for self defense. Its both a hobby and a way of protecting oneself. 

As a woman, especially now as a pregnant woman, I value my ability to protect myself. I keep one with me in my house when I am alone, simply for my own safety. Would I want to use it? No for sure I would never want to use one, I would never want to hurt anyone, but I will if it means that I will live and my unborn child will be okay. My husband feels the same way. 

As a person who has dealt with a lot of cops, I can tell you that the ones I've met feel the same way about armed citizens as we do. Criminals will be armed whether or not it is legal. Law abiding citizens who are armed are a great asset to cops. They can protect themselves and others. 

My daddy always said that cops do their best to protect the pubic, but a lot of what they do is reactive, simply due to the nature of the job. They respond to crimes in progress, and crime scenes, but rarely are they there as it is happening, it just simply isn't possible. The first thing I would do is call 911 if I thought I needed help, but then I would grab a gun, because 911 may be 3 minutes away, and I only have 30 seconds. Not good for my chances, and I do not want to be another statistic of a crime because I did not take advantage of my constitutional right.

That being said, I do believe that owning or possessing a firearm, although a right, is not to be taken lightly. They ARE dangerous, and need to be treated with respect and common sense. Safety is first, and if you plan on having a gun, you need to know not only how to fire it, but what to do if/when it jams, how to clean it, how to properly shoot it, all of its safeties, and what ammo is good for it. Not only that, but you need to know the laws in your area, and have a safe place to store said gun. AND remembering the golden rule that I live by "Don't ever point a gun, whether unloaded, loaded, or otherwise, at anything you do not plan on killing."


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

The simple answer OP is "Because they can"

There is always a certain percentage of the population that think gun owning is cool, or a right, or that they are needed for personal protection.

I come from the UK, to own any kind of gun you have to prove that you need it for a purpose, you have to jump through hoops to get a licence, more hoops to get the weapon. I owned a little air rifle for target shooting, that was it.

Then we moved to Canada, rubs hands together, fond out that by completing my safety training and getting a PAL (Possession and Acquisition) licence I then had the ability to go buy a whole range of guns, so as a family we own a whole range of guns for hunting, everyone has a .22 for dealing with nuisance critters, a shotgun, and a whole range larger calibre rifles for a whole range of things, mainly because my son collects them.

Now I think we have enough, actually to many guns, I can totally understand having a small and a large calibre rifle, but don't get the AK 47 thing at all.

I know that every house around here has guns, I know that one house has several hundred guns, but no one is 'gun ho' :lol: about it. 

So yeah, they have guns because they can


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

Guns are just a tool, how you use it is the difference


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

AK 47's are extremely rare and very expensive and troublesome to posses and illegal in many areas as they are selective fire. The media likes to call any thing with a curved magazine an AK47.

Look at parts of the world where governments slaughter their own people. How many Jews do you think Hitler would have sent to the gas chambers if they were well armed ? He passed all kinds of gun control laws for their own safety using fear of crime to scare the sheeple. Just like your government has done.
It amazes me that people can be so ignorant to think that making guns illegal does anything but create unarmed victims for armed criminals and governments. News flash Criminals dont obey gun laws and governments always exempt themselves.
The right to keep arms is about self defense and community defense against threats inculding our own government. Nothing to do with hunting or anything else.


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## littleamy76 (Jun 30, 2011)

In America, we have the 2nd Amendment in our Constitution that gives Americans the right to bear arms. There are many reasons this was written

To deter a tyrannical government
Participate in law enforcement
Repel invasion
A natural right to defend ourselves

My dad is a gun owner and collector. He has been through the Vietnam war and mainly carries a gun for protection. We have some crazy people in this world and if someone decides to harm him or his family, he has the right to protect us. A police officer cannot always be close by and anything can happen in a split second. Thus his reasoning behind carrying a gun. He has several guns that he has collected over the years that his ancestors carried in the Civil War, WWI, WWII. That is his hobby and there has been some interesting history learned about each and every gun that he owns. I personally do not like guns, but I have thought about getting myself one just to have for protection. A 300 lb man can really do a lot of harm to a 100 lb defenseless woman and her young children.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms .... disarm only
those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
Such laws make things worse for the assaulted
and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage 
than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be 
attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."​ *- Thomas Jefferson*


"Only an armed people can be truly free.
Only an unarmed people can ever be enslaved."​ *- Aristotle*



 
"You cannot invade the mainland United States. 
There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."​ *- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

*"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
- *George Washington*

There are many more, but just look at the quotes of Jefferson and Washington. That may just answer the question in and of itself. Why do we have guns? Because those people were our founding fathers, and its a basic right given when this country was first created. ​


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

We have several handguns, rifles and shotguns. We keep them for protection and for the shooting range (fun) because we don't hunt. I carry a concealed weapons permit and I keep a gun with me because I travel a lot. Don't want to break down or get stranded somewhere without some protection.

Plus my job creates opportunities for lots of folks to be angry or hate me, sad to say.


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> AK 47's are extremely rare and very expensive and troublesome to posses and illegal in many areas as they are selective fire. The media likes to call any thing with a curved magazine an AK


Sorry Joe, you're misinformed on some of that.
Yes, the media, being liberal skewed and ignorant of firearm knowledge in general, do like to scare the unknowing with incorrect information.
However, AK's and their variants are quite easy to come by and quite inexpensive.
A Chinese make can be had for about $500, Russian version about $650.
That's much less expensive than an AR, aa reference.
Look up J&G Sales in Prescott, AZ. They always have them in stock.
Many states restrict them or what they can be equipped with, especially for hunting.
Generally, a five round magazine is the limit for hunting.
The AK is a great, inexpensive rifle if you can't afford something better.


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## uflrh9y (Jun 29, 2012)

I think it is a stereotype that all American's have small militias in their closet, lol. I think it can be regional as far as gun ownership. 

I don't own a gun for protection and I don't feel the need for one for protection. I don't own a gun because I can. There are a lot of things "I can" do but doesn't mean I do it. And I do not believe that the original reasons for the _right to bear arms" really applies today. And I am not fan of the NRA at all. 

That said, I do own a gun as does my husband. I have an old slide action rifle and a Sig Sauer .22 and hubby has a Sig Sauer .9mm with a conversion kit. I love target shooting. We both are taking the Marksmanship Qualifying test (hubby is farther ahead then I am, boo) and it's one of our favorite things to do on his day off. My kids know how to shoot and my son is in a young marksman's club. I see it as a sport and a lot of fun. 

As for protection, though hubby has his concealed weapons permit, he doesn't wear his gun around. We keep our guns in a locked gun cabinet, the ammo is kept in a separate case, and the guns have master cable locks. It would be kind of hard for one of us to get a gun ready fro use if need be. I see them simply as tools for a sport.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Why do people own horses?? Few people really NEED them .. they own them because they enjoy them (hopefully) .. and they can.

Same reason I own my motorcycle, my pets, my house, my guns .. my choice, my preference, my money.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Mckellar said:


> Hello everyone, well I live in Canada and I don’t know too many people who live in the US, most people who do are Canadians and go down for show seasons. Something that I have asked myself 1000 times and my family has asked. Why do Americans have so many guns? I’m asking this in a total “I have no idea so I’ll just ask because if I don’t I will never know” kind of way.
> 
> Now, we have guns for hunting and yes like all major city’s we have gun violence and I’ve gone to a shooting range and it was a lot of fun but I’m asking because why is it that you can legally have an ak-47? Like.. that’s not a hunting gun….
> 
> I probably sound so ignorant, and I'm not trying to steriotype this is a general questions to the general population....but it is just is so confusing


 
I haven't read the entire response yet, but let me say that my family owns guns in exactly the same manner as you described above, and my guess is that the majority of gun owners, own/use them in exactly the same way as you described above. There are certainly folks who want to own an AK-47 (which I personally cannot agree with) , but since our population is like 10 times Canada's, it's not surprising that the fringe section of gun owners would be much, much larger. just by statistics.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

texasgal said:


> Why do people own horses?? Few people really NEED them .. they own them because they enjoy them (hopefully) .. and they can.
> 
> Same reason I own my motorcycle, my pets, my house, my guns .. my choice, my preference, my money.


Exactamundo.

Guns are fun to fire, fun to collect, good for hunting, and good for protection...nothing weird or wrong about having guns.

I have 2 Winchester 30-30 rifles for deer hunting, although I don't hunt any more...one is a commemorative model, and the other has a stock my father hand carved when he was alive. Then I have a 22 for plinking, a 20 gauge for possums and dillas, and a 380 automatic handgun for obnoxious liberals and anybody stupid enough to invade my turf...


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

It is not a law that all Americans own guns, they have the _right_ to own and bare arms, and not all excercise that right. The reason the "right" was made part of the US constitution would take to long to explain. In short, the authors of the constitution were able to figure out that w/o the right to bare arms, the rest of constitution would become meaningless - in short order. 
And, one cannot own a fully automatic weapon w/o special permit, so it isn't "anything goes".


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

My father owned a gun when I was younger, as a truck driver for protection out on the road.
My step father currently owns several guns for hunting.
My father in law owns several for the purpose of protecting his family, as a retired police officer. That mentality was passed on to my husband. We own a .22 rifle and 357 that we keep in our closet. 

As an over-protective mother, I couldn't imagine feeling so helpless if I was ever put in a posotion to need to protect my family inside our home. Too many crazys out there. That's just me though, I completely understand women who feel uncomfortable around guns.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

My favorite gun is an old pellet rifle. It's fun, kills rattlers, and cost pennies per shot. That's also in the constitution, "right to be cheap".


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I understand that the laws maybe different in different states, but for those of you who carry for personal protection, is actually legal to shoot another person? I get that self defence is a valid reason for shooting, but how much danger do you have to be in, or feel yourself in?

Also how many really think or know that they could shoot?

I know when I first came here I wasn't sure I could actually shoot a living thing, and I still have some qualms about it, but I do shoot gophers regularly, have shot a couple of coyotes who were hanging around during calving or foaling season.

Could I shoot a person, IDK, I really really hope I never have to find out, because if I do shoot, I couldn't do anything than shoot to kill, I am not sure that if I shot to wing a person I would enjoy dealing with a person who was threatening me and is now ****ed off with a gunshot.

I've always been taught, shoot to kill, I really don't know honestly what my answer is.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> I haven't read the entire response yet, but let me say that my family owns guns in exactly the same manner as you described above, and my guess is that the majority of gun owners, own/use them in exactly the same way as you described above. There are certainly folks who want to own an AK-47 (which I personally cannot agree with) , but since our population is like 10 times Canada's, it's not surprising that the fringe section of gun owners would be much, much larger. just by statistics.


I don't know tiny, and AK-47 is or was inexpensive, has little "kick" and is good for target practice (i.e., recreation). I own no gun for the purpose of hunting, as I would never intentionally kill an innocent animal that posed no threat to me...including rattlers, and the mere idea of hunting is upsetting to me. But, I don't call those that own guns for hunting "the fringe". So, guns are like anything else used for recreation - different strokes for different folks. I don't think there is a "fringe".


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

GH .. never shoot to wound.. don't pull your weapon unless you intend to shoot to kill. To that end, you would have to feel that is your only option.. your life is being threatened.

OTOH, if someone is breaking into my house, I wiil NOT ask what his intentions are before I shoot him.

We used to tell the teenagers that if they snuck out during the night, stay out all night, because if they try to sneak back in they are likely to get shot.

Ya know, we never had any problem with our kids sneaking out .. lol.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the fringe. I meant the edge of the statistical group of gun owners. 
Does sound odd, though. I just don't see the "reason" for owning such uber powerful guns. But I have no love for guns in general. Very boring and provincial in my attitude toward guns.


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

With the way I was raised (farm kid/working cattle) I can't imagine not owning a firearm. 

The reasons we have firearms are simple ones:

You may not always be able to get a vet out immediately when an animal is mortally wounded or suffering horribly from illness. Or if you have an animal that has to be destroyed quickly to keep people safe.

We raise our own meat. Yes, I could cut a goat's throat with a knife, but isn't instant death by a bullet kinder? And don't tell me to become a vegetarian, ain't happening.

My daughters and I hunt. A rifle used last night is putting dinner on the table tonight. Like others, I don't want hormone and drug laced meat fed to my family. Three deer a year help to feed us, our neighbor, and my oldest daughter and her roommates. If we're lucky, some years we can bag more than three. I don't believe in trophy hunting, to me that's just wrong.

Protection. We live in the middle of nowhere. If you need emergency help, you have at least a forty minute wait IF they don't get lost after being given directions. Living so far out we don't have many strangers, but the ones we do are generally not here to sell Avon. Two months ago we found out that a man just released from prison after serving time for sexual assault and murder moved in a half mile from us.

We are armed anytime we are out on the farm or riding, heck, there's a gun rack in the truck. For those that think it's overkill, being armed isn't just for the ex-con that moved in, but for the coyotes, vermin, snakes, and a quick meal if we're lucky.

My husband did not grow up in a hunting family. Guns are foreign to him. He's not comfortable with them and that's okay, he doesn't have to be. If we're butchering, the dispatching falls to me, no biggie. He has however asked to be taught to shoot safely and that will happen.

We don't keep our rifles under lock and key. My youngest daughter, 12 has a loaded rifle on a rack in her room. Am I worried about her playing with it? No. She's been taught gun safety since she could walk and when she was old enough she was taught to shoot and received her first rifle at the age of 10. She knows they are not toys, her friends aren't allowed in her room and they've all learned gun safety from their parents as well. She has had occasion to need her rifle in the middle of the night. She heard something messing with the chickens and shot a raccoon before I woke up.

Sorry for going on like this, but really owning guns doesn't make someone shootout crazy. Like someone else said, they are a tool and it is in how someone is trained makes the tool useful or not.

I wouldn't live somewhere that I couldn't keep the right to do as I see fit on my own property for my family. Just my opinion.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

GH, I can only answer for Texas, but here, yes it is completely lawful to use deadly force on a person in defense (either of yourself or of another person) against serious bodily injury. Texas has a law that we call the "Castle Doctrine", which basically says you can use deadly force against a person to prevent or stop the commission of one of these crimes (aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery) or if the assailant was illegally entering your home, vehicle, place of residence, or place of employment...also if they tried to remove you or someone else from one of those said places (kidnapping, carjacking, etc). Also, the biggest part of the doctrine says that you (the defender) are under no legal obligation to retreat from the situation.

It also protects you against civil litigation from the person or family of the person that you shot.

I own guns mostly because I enjoy guns and because I like my safety and my freedom. I don't hunt, but I do enjoy putting a few rounds through my .30-30 or my .30-06 occasionally. And, if it ever came to the point where I needed to hunt, then I would have them and be knowledgeable enough to use them. I also own a 12 gauge shotgun. I got it when I was living in the city for home defense. When living in an apartment complex, a 12 gauge loaded with bird shot is much safer with less risk of injuring the people in the next unit because a round went through the wall. If I had the money, I would certainly buy an AR-15. I used to shoot one at the prison where I worked and they are just a lot of fun to shoot.

A few years ago, just after I turned 21 (legal age for owning a handgun), I bought my first handgun for personal protection because the city where I was living was getting more and more dangerous; women being taken from grocery store parking lots, people getting carjacked at stop lights, bodies being found behind the Dunkin' Donuts, etc. I still carry it with me, even though I no longer live in the city. Mostly, here, I use it to kill the occasional rattlesnake or varmint, but it is also there for protection because even in our little town with a population of ~500, there are still some very dangerous people. There is a drug problem here and we have many oilfield workers coming and going through all hours of the night, many of whom have criminal records.

Heck, just a few weeks ago, a woman came home in the middle of the day and started to open all the windows in her home to let the fresh breeze blow through. She found a strange man sleeping in her guest bedroom. Thankfully, he was a non-violent mental patient, but if he'd had violence in mind, there would have been nothing she could do to stop him.


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

GH, if you are ever put in the position of needing to protect yourself with a weapon, always shoot to kill. 

Personally, I can't see myself having issue with putting someone down if they were intent on doing harm. May sound callous, but at that point to me they've crossed the line from being a member of society to being a dangerous animal and dangerous animals are dealt with.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh, and sorry for the double post, but I didn't want this to get lost in the jumble of my longer post.

If the point ever comes where you have to shoot someone...never, _*NEVER*_ tell anyone that you were shooting to kill, even if you were. Verbalizing it opens you up to all sorts of civil litigation and even some criminal charges because that means that you showed _intent_ to kill the person.

What you do is train to shoot center-mass (middle of the chest, in the heart area) and when you are questioned, say that you were "shooting to _stop_ the person" and that you had been trained to shoot center mass. If the person lives, they live, if they die, they die, but doing it that way (shooting center-mass in order to _stop_ the assailant), you are relieved of any civil or criminal liability.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> I understand that the laws maybe different in different states, but for those of you who carry for personal protection, is actually legal to shoot another person? I get that self defence is a valid reason for shooting, but how much danger do you have to be in, or feel yourself in?
> 
> Also how many really think or know that they could shoot?
> 
> ...


Many people believe they know exactly what they would do if their life were threatened by another human. I don't believe they do. But, I think most would rather find out - armed to the teeth. 

And, most people that carry smaller (hand) guns for personal protection do not do so in the open, for that most places require a conceal carry permit.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> the fringe. I meant the edge of the statistical group of gun owners.
> Does sound odd, though. I just don't see the "reason" for owning such uber powerful guns. But I have no love for guns in general. Very boring and provincial in my attitude toward guns.


Oh, I see. That is true...statistically lower number.

I don't slobber over guns either...but I love to target practice. Its like any other "game"...to play you need different "power" for different "games". . Its somewhat like golf...or other competitive "games" people play.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It's OK to Shoot - ABC News

I can say from personal experience that there is no feeling that can compare to looking at another human down the barrel of a gun. I've been in that situation once (thankfully, he retreated so I didn't have to shoot), but the ice cold dread that filled me up during those moments was terrifying. I would have pulled the trigger had he continued to advance, but I'm not sure how I would have lived with myself afterward.


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> I understand that the laws maybe different in different states, but for those of you who carry for personal protection, is actually legal to shoot another person? I get that self defence is a valid reason for shooting, but how much danger do you have to be in, or feel yourself in?
> 
> Also how many really think or know that they could shoot?
> 
> ...



I was trained by SWAT team members when I got my permit to carry, and they drilled it into us, shoot to kill. Don't try to wound. Continue shooting until you are SURE they are not going to get up. And don't ever pull your gun out unless you feel threatened for your own life and safety or that of someone else.

Of course, they then proceeded to tell us that we would ALWAYS have to explain our actions later, so know that we are in danger first. They told us if possible and we thought someone could hear us to yell out "Please stop I don't want to shoot you!" if we had a chance. Someone who heard that would remember it later.

Now as to whether I could actually shoot someone? I hope that I don't ever have to pull my gun out on anyone. But I hope that, if I ever feel threatened enough to make such a drastic move, that training will kick in and I will do it to protect myself or someone else.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> the fringe. I meant the edge of the statistical group of gun owners.
> Does sound odd, though. I just don't see the "reason" for owning such uber powerful guns. But I have no love for guns in general. Very boring and provincial in my attitude toward guns.



The Heller decision left the door open for what is yet to be determined by the courts as reasonable regulation.

In my mind, as the second amendment is an individual right, just like voting, what ever regulation that's applied to voting should be applied to gun purchases and ownership.

Now, attorney general Holder seems to think that an ID disenfranchises certain minority voters. You can't purchase a firearm without an ID and a background check (ID and background check requirements are federal, but state laws vary state to state), so, wouldn't that also disenfranchise the same minority gun purchasers?

How about a $10 dollar fee and background check to vote? 

Oh, wait.....that's called a poll tax right? So, isn't the $10 fee for a gun purchase the same as a poll tax?

What ever reasonable regulation is, it needs to be applied to all individual rights the same IMO.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I don't know, I have seen people buy an extremely attractive, expensive handgun and feel all kinds of safe b/c they have a gun....but they fail to get to know the gun's ability, limitations, etc.,. Shooting to kill is a good idea - being able to hit your mark is even better!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Gunslinger, so you think that EVERYONE should be entitled to carry a gun, however mad, bad, or sad they are?


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Gunslinger, so you think that EVERYONE should be entitled to carry a gun, however mad, bad, or sad they are?


No, of course not. I don't think everyone should be able to vote either, and for the same reason.

Again, apply the standards the same.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

gunslinger said:


> What ever reasonable regulation is, it needs to be applied to all individual rights the same IMO.


Just hit me with this one, is voting a right or a responsibility?

The nature of democracy I'm sure says that you have certain inalienable rights, but the act of voting is a responsibility. 

Gun keeping is a right, but not a responsibility, so the two things are very different.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Actually GH, voting is considered a privilege, a duty, and a right. Not everyone gets to vote, just like not everyone gets to own a firearm. Convicted criminals lose both their rights to vote and own firearms.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Golden Horse said:


> Gunslinger, so you think that EVERYONE should be entitled to carry a gun, however mad, bad, or sad they are?


Everyone has the Right to Own a Gun, but rights can be taken away if someone is a criminal or has mental problems, that is why we have background checks or should have, some states do not do this I believe.

Carrying a Gun and Owning a Gun are two different things.

If everyone has the Right to Free to Free Medical, Free Food, Free Section 8 Housing, etc., etc. 
Should not not everyone have the Right to defend their Family and Themselves? ... as long as they have not proven they cannot be trusted with a gun, that is....



"This year will go down in history. For the first time,
a civilized nation has full gun registration!
Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
and the world will follow our lead into the future!" 

Adolph Hitler, 1935




.


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

People with certain types of mental illness are also prohibited from owning firearms. 
People with drug related crimes are not allowed to own firearms.
Minors cannot own a handgun legally. 
People who have been charged with domestic violence cannot own a firearm. People with certain types of restraining orders cannot own firearms.
If a person has a dishonorable discharge from the military they cannot own a firearm. 


It is far from a free for all here in the US. 

However, anyone regardless of where they are can obtain a firearm illegally.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

The US is not a democracy. 

Rights do not codify moral/ethical "responsibility".


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> Actually GH, voting is considered a privilege, a duty, and a right. Not everyone gets to vote, just like not everyone gets to own a firearm. Convicted criminals lose both their rights to vote and own firearms.



Not exactly. The way I understand it, the federal government, I.E. Attorney General Holder, has stated the Fla and Texas attempts to purge there voter registration of illegal voters is illegal. He's also said that requiring an ID is the same as a poll tax because those that don't have a government issued ID would have to pay for them.

You can't buy a gun without an ID. You can't board an airplane without an ID. You can't cash a check without an ID. You can't purchase beer without an ID...etc...yada...yada...yada.....

If an ID is required for a gun purchase, and that's deamed "reasonable regualtion", then the same standard should apply for voting.

Again, I have to pay for the background check. That's the same as Holder arguing that paying for a government ID is a poll tax IMO.

The requirement for both is "reasonable" IMO.


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

I can't catch up to the replys! Thank you all for replying I'm so happy I posted this question, it's very interesting to hear everyone's view on the subject!  I got to page 4 I'll catch up tomorrow


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

All caught up, so what I'm taking from all the responses are that all of you are safe people. And it's basically a way of life? Many of you grew up with guns, and since you have the right to have guns people exercise that right. 

It's just so interesting to me the differences. I think a big one is you are allowed to defend your house and yourself... Ive never studied law but if someone was to break in my house hold a gun to my parents head I would go to jail for shooting them. If anyone has more knowledge of Canadian law please correct me if that's wrong! 

Second question, if you do defend yourself, home, family, what happens if you shoot to kill?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

McKellar, there is no such thing as 'shoot to maim'. Everything I've been taught is that you have to be of the mindset if you pick up your weapon, you shoot to kill. Aim for center mass, because that's where you'll do the most damage. Except for movies and TV, which are total fantasy and extremely inaccurate, nobody shoots to just wound. You want to incapacitate, not leave them able to retaliate.

As far as shooting someone and having it be considered justifiable, that depends on state, not Federal, laws. Each state is a little different in their interpretation of the Castle Law. Heck, each county in a given state may also have different ways they interpret the law.

This goes back to when the US was first formed. The original idea was that the states had power to govern their own citizens and make their own laws. The federal government was only supposed to oversee the states, and keep them loosely together by virtue of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The federal government was never supposed to be the deciding power concerning the states and their laws. This is why our states today can and do have wildly differing laws. For example, in some states gay marriage is legal, while in others it's not.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Mckellar said:


> Second question, if you do defend yourself, home, family, what happens if you shoot to kill?


Tennessee issues a handgun carry permit. One of the requirements is a mandatory 8 hour class room instruction. The instruction isn't really what most would suspect, but covers when you can shoot, when you can't shoot, and what happens if you do shoot.

In most cases, unless it's extremely clear cut, the police will arrest you and charge you with a crime. You will appear before a judge and bond will be set. You'll probably need to hire a lawyer. The DA's office or a grand jury will decide if the charges will be pursued. 

Then there's the civil suit. Most likely you'll be sued. Win or lose, again, you'll need to pay a lawyer and court cost.

Not sure if you've been following the Zimmerman/Martin incident that happened in FL. but at first Zimmerman wasn't arrested, but now is out on a million dollar bond and faces life in prison.

Many states have passed Castle laws that vary from state to state. The just of the Castle law is a man's home is his castle and he has the right to defend it. Some states allow the right to defend possessions, some don't.

Pulling the trigger is serious business and has serious consequences. 

No matter the legal out come, there is still the physiological aspect of killing another human being. How do you live with yourself knowing you took another person's life? There's always the what if's and second guesses, but to me, nothing I own is worth another mans life. That said, if someone comes into my house uninvited then they must be willing to take my life. I see forced entry as a desperate act by someone willing to risk it all. All I can say about that is "shame on them", they just made a terrible decision. 

So, to answer your question, don't think that you pull the trigger and just walk away, because in most cases, you don't.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Mckellar said:


> Second question, if you do defend yourself, home, family, what happens if you shoot to kill?


Most of the time, any shooting to defend yourself or your property will be considered "justified" and there is really no lasting legal or civil repercussions. However, the line between justified and unjustified can often be very thin. There was a man not so long ago that got 40 years in prison after shooting a neighbor after a quarrel over a loud party. Stupid on his part, but he claimed that he was justified under the Castle law. A grand jury found that to be incorrect so he was held criminally liable.


I suppose I should have been a bit more clear in my earlier post. Whenever you have to shoot someone, you really _should_ shoot to kill, but don't ever _*tell*_ anyone that you were shooting to kill.


You aim center mass because that's where all the vitals are and a perp usually isn't very dangerous when he has a couple bullets in his heart and lungs. You keep shooting until they stop advancing...whether they turn to run or whether they fall down dead, you don't stop until they do.

It's just as strange for us to consider where you live as it is for you to think about us LOL. I cannot imagine living in a place where I couldn't defend myself with any level of force necessary.


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

I have a question for those in countries with strict gun laws. 

What do you do if heaven forbid you have livestock that go down hard. Like a horse with a broken leg or sticken with bad colic? Or a cow that has been mortally wounded by dogs?

Around here, we have 3 vets that we use, but with the amount of cattle farms and other operations you don't always have the option of having a vet come immediately and if they can you are looking at least at a couple of hours before they get there.

I'd rather do the job myself and end the suffering immediately rather than wait for hours or days before a vet can get there. Before anyone asks, yes I have been in that position and I have put down horses and other large stock as well as small animals. I was just raised that it was part and parcel of owning animals; you have to be able to do what is needed to end suffering immediately.

Just curious as to what y'all do in situations like that.


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

I live in Ontario, not a huge rural area but lots of farms and livestock so in the situation of animals needing to be shot because of injury or colic it does happen ( I think a bullet is cheaper than a vet, but I do not own any guns) 

Knowing you can not really defend your home is a scary thought to be honest. I walked in on a group of 3 men breaking into my house... I REALLY wish I could have had a weapon but lucky for me they ran away. I have a fear of not being able to protect myself if I need to because our laws are so "friendly". I asked this question too because I know I sound so ignorant but this is a big image that America has. I like to know now that even though many Americans are armed it is the history of the country and the laws today that allow this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 7thhorsesoldier (Oct 22, 2011)

While some may think owning a ak-47 or ar-15 or any assault rifle is overkill( no joke intended) truly it's not. The idea of owning a assault weapon is not to go pop off a hundred duck's, it's to defend our self's from the government when it get's tyrannical. If you look back in history (Hitler and Stalin) had to disarm the people before they could carry out their plot. That's why we American's take our 2nd amendment very seriously. America may be the only and last free place on earth before the good Lord comes and we intend to keep it that way.


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## VT Trail Trotters (Jul 21, 2011)

Ill do my best on this, reason people own many guns is they may be passed down in the family, they love to collect guns, different guns different uses is very common. I own 2 myself a Mosin Nagant 91/30 rifle and a Stevens M237 20 gauge shotgun. Alot of people today own a gun or two for self and home defense. AR 15 is a good home defense, varmint and deer rifle. Pistols, home defense and conceal carry for self defense. Along the lines we got people who only or do competition shooting and own many guns and may hunt too or not. Now people who own semi auto guns use them for the range, competition, just gen. range use and AR 15's again for hunting in some cases. Semi auto shot guns you name it, its got a use, hunting, home defense, competition. I have firearms for hunting and range use, if needed hell i use it for home defense. No matter what it looks like you dont want a shotgun pointing at you when youre intruding in my house.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Mckellar said:


> I live in Ontario, not a huge rural area but lots of farms and livestock so in the situation of animals needing to be shot because of injury or colic it does happen ( I think a bullet is cheaper than a vet, but I do not own any guns)
> 
> Knowing you can not really defend your home is a scary thought to be honest. I walked in on a group of 3 men breaking into my house... I REALLY wish I could have had a weapon but lucky for me they ran away. I have a fear of not being able to protect myself if I need to because our laws are so "friendly". I asked this question too because I know I sound so ignorant but this is a big image that America has. I like to know now that even though many Americans are armed it is the history of the country and the laws today that allow this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, what about snakes? I will not get close enough to a snake to use a hoe or shovel...I shoot them. What do you do? Run?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Mckellar said:


> I asked this question too because I know I sound so ignorant but this is a big image that America has. I like to know now that even though many Americans are armed it is the history of the country and the laws today that allow this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You don't sound ignorant at all, you just simply didn't know, so asked. That's a good way to become informed.

Yes, the right to bear arms is part of our history, and we take that right very seriously. Some people are of course going to take things to extremes, but the majority of gun owning Americans are responsible.

Not every American wants to own a gun. My parents never saw the need, although my mother's father was an avid hunter and she and her siblings knew how to shoot. I know out of my five brothers, only one has a firearm.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

My Hubby wasn't allowed to have anythign to do with guns growing up (or anything even remotely having to do with hunting). When I came along, my dad introduced him to all of that. He's now an avid hunter (well tries to be,lol). I think he has 4-6 guns total. He says each one has it's specific purpose, and that he won't buy any guns that doesn't have a use to him. That being said they are locked in a cabinet, buried in our attic. So if he were to need them to protect our house, well basically the cops would show up first. He is also teaching our daughter to target shoot. She's 9 and is actually pretty good and seems to enjoy it.

But I have mixed feelings about guns, especially recently. Growing up I never gave them a second thought, they were a part of life. In high school, a personal incident caused me to change my mind drastically. I became VERY against any type of gun. As Hubby got more involved w/ hunting my views relaxed and I didn't make such a big deal about them.

Until this last week. I recieved news that an aquaintences family member was shot. It was an accident, but he was only 13. He & a friend had all the classes, and had grown up with hunting and guns, but something went wrong.

I know at times they are necessary, but personally it's hard to agree to have them around.


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## clippityclop (Jul 12, 2012)

I am female, mid 30's and I have my concealed handgun license. I travel all over chasing endurance rides by myself, 99% of the time. Not all the folks who want to help you change a tire at 1am have hearts of gold. So for me, my gun is personal protection. 

Now my hubby has some big bad semi-autos- but it is PURELY for the enjoyment of killing HOGS...... we go laser, nightscope, supressor - the whole she'bang for killing those darn HOGS!:twisted:


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

I live in a very rural and dangerous area. All kinds of wildlife, remote, and usually we only have 1 to 2 officers on duty for the entire county. The roads are dangerous, windy and help would be at least an hour away if needed. All the homes here are armed with large arsenals and I love it. A person would have to be raving mad to take the chance of breaking in to someones home, and everyone knows it. Property boundaries are respected for the most part and I feel extremely safe living in the MIDDLE of nowhere, surrounded by people with all these guns! In the event of war... Arkansas would be a heck of a place to invade.

As a small child I was started with BB guns and the first riffle I shot was an elephant riffle that knocked me on my tail. My Uncle and Papa had all the kids shoot it to show us how powerful and dangerous guns are. We respect guns, we need them, and there isn't a thing wrong with them because they are a tool. We have a few very powerful semi's, a couple handguns, my shotgun, etc. and use them for hunting and protection.
In case I have to pick one up to protect myself from a bear, boar, feral dog, or a person, milliseconds count and a powerful semi is the only thing that will lay something down when you count in fear and adrenaline. I'm a crack shot, I call my DH "Dead Eye", but we know that to be better armed and knowledgeable means to be safe and fed. We have done everything possible to prevent people from even considering on messing with us. We have two gates before you get to the house, NT signs, and 400lbs. of dog patrolling the yard. If someone actually got past all this and proceeded to come after me I would terrified, black out, and take care of myself and my family.

As for Americans and their having powerful guns, this is a pretty large place. When people from countries smaller than most of our states think we are "a little out there", well, come on out, sleep in a tent for a couple days... I think you may change your mind!

I have three things by my door that I use almost every day.
A shovel for gardening and killing snakes, a long PVC pipe for beating my roosters, and a gun.
Ha! I sound like such a country hick! LOL! Promise I'm not!!


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## stephshark (Jun 19, 2012)

I'm not a gun fanatic or collector, but years ago I bought my .357 Magnum strictly for home protection, after taking classes and going to the shooting range with a friend who is a munitions expert in the military. The decision to buy a gun came as a result of having three run-ins with sketchy dudes a few weeks after buying my first house; when a single girl is living alone, word gets around pretty fast among dirtbags. I bought it in the hopes that I would never ever ever ever EVER have to use it, and fortunately have not had to. Just knowing I have the tool and ability to defend myself is comforting and something I hope is not ever taken away.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

FlyGap said:


> As a small child I was started with BB guns and the first riffle I shot was an elephant riffle that knocked me on my tail.
> I have three things by my door that I use almost every day.
> A shovel for gardening and killing snakes, a long PVC pipe for beating my roosters, and a gun.
> Ha! I sound like such a country hick! LOL! Promise I'm not!!


Haha...I had the same experience as you w the elephant rifle, only in my case it was a wee mauser and I hit the dust in white shorts..hmph! I took from that lesson that the most important criterian for a gun for me is_ no_ detectable kick!

Poor rooster!  btw, one shot from a pellet rifle, or even a bb, between the eyes of a rattler will kill it instantly. I am not brave enough to get "shovel" close! uh uh. A .22 is better, but is not safe around rocks.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Missy May said:


> Well, what about snakes? I will not get close enough to a snake to use a hoe or shovel...I shoot them. What do you do? Run?



Do what I do choose to live with harmless snakes.

It really is interesting seeing peoples views on this, as I say I grew up in the UK where we were just about gun free. I was in my 20's when we first came to visit the US, and it was very very strange sitting down for a meal in a restaurant with armed police sitting at the next table:shock: 

I have to say when I do think about it when we are in the USA, I am very very uncomfortable with the amount of guns that could be around at any one time, I know it makes you guys feel safe, but it scares the beejeezus out of me.

But it is often argued that per capita the gun owning rate up here in Canada is higher, exact figures seem to be hard to come by, I know that this is a very very heavily armed area. I have never ever felt uncomfortable up here, because Canadians don't shout about their rights to bear arms quite so much. We for sure celebrated the end of the long gun registry, so now the government doesn't have to know how many guns I have in my possession, but the rhetoric here is different.

Canadians remain quiet polite people who see no need to bluster and shout about their gun owning rights, or to threaten or posture, they will just shoot you if you break in.....well maybe maybe not.

None of that is meant to be a downer or offensive to anyone, it's just my personal observation.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> Do what I do choose to live with harmless snakes.


It is difficult for everyone to choose where they are raised, make their schooling, career, and family location decision based on where there are no harmful snakes. But I am glad for you that you were afforded that luxury.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> Canadians remain quiet polite people who see no need to bluster and shout about their gun owning rights, or to threaten or posture, they will just shoot you if you break in.....well maybe maybe not.


You'll find the majority of gun owning Americans are the same way. At least the ones who have been taught to properly respect firearms for the deadly tools that they are.

I don't expect anyone not from the US to understand our culture, or how diligent we are about keeping the right to bear arms a _right_. If that comes off as blustering or posturing to you, that's merely your own misunderstanding.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Missy May said:


> It is difficult for everyone to choose where they are raised, make their schooling, career, and family location decision based on where there are no harmful snakes. But I am glad for you that you were afforded that luxury.



Lol, it was an accident of birth meant that I lived in the UK, with only the adder as a poisonous snake, and he isn't very dangerous. 

As to my choice of place to live, made not due to the lack of snakes, it was not a luxury but years of freaking hard work thank you very much:twisted:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> You'll find the majority of gun owning Americans are the same way. At least the ones who have been taught to properly respect firearms for the deadly tools that they are.
> 
> I don't expect anyone not from the US to understand our culture, or how diligent we are about keeping the right to bear arms a _right_. If that comes off as blustering or posturing to you, that's merely your own misunderstanding.


It is my PERCEPTION, and the same perception is held by many many people throughout the world, I wonder why we are all mistaken?

NOW I will step away and unsubscribe from this thread as well...*le sigh*


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> It is my PERCEPTION, and the same perception is held by many many people throughout the world, I wonder why we are all mistaken?
> 
> NOW I will step away and unsubscribe from this thread as well...*le sigh*


Frankly, I don't care what you or the rest of the world think. This is the US, that's the way we are, and hopefully the way we'll always be!

You're free to perceive things how ever you want.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> It is my PERCEPTION, and the same perception is held by many many people throughout the world, I wonder why we are all mistaken?
> 
> NOW I will step away and unsubscribe from this thread as well...*le sigh*



I blame our media for why you are all mistaken. :wink:

Because quite frankly, there are people even here in America who are afraid of our guns. It does freak some people out, and I understand that. But that's why its called concealed carry, and not open carry. 

The media loves to portray guns as deadly, no matter what. And they always use the term "assault rifle." They are, most of the time, so incredibly misinformed that they make Americans look like we still live in the wild west. They tend to take gun crimes, which of course do happen, and make it look like the problem was the gun, not the person who pulled the trigger. That is why it looks so bad to everyone else, our media likes to make it look that way. 

I think this illustration about sums it up:


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Lakotab. It's so funny b/c it is so true. The media elite are clever, make no mistake....they pretend to feel there is no room for prejudices and judgement, but they never miss an opportunity to judge and paint the "intellect" of gun owners as far beneath their own.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

It will be interesting what kind of knee jerk reaction will happen after last nights Aurora Co. / Century theater shooting.

Tragic, in that once again, the shooter was the only one armed. Nobody there could shoot back.

If only there were one carry permit holder, armed, in the crowd.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I don't know as that would have done any good, gun. The shooter had on a bullet proof vest, and was dressed in riot gear from what I understand. 

This was a premeditated massacre, not someone just going off their nut and picking a theater at random. He told the police when they nabbed him, that he also had some sort of explosive device. Don't know if he didn't use it, or it didn't go off.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Getting shot would have still hurt and may have slowed him down a bit, giving time for people to take cover/escape. Complete insanity. I feel so horrid for those families.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

We have quite a few firearms..Mostly for hunting purposes but also personal protection. This ranges from rifles, pistols, compound bows..The lot.. Personally I have a Browning 308, Browning 22, different shot guns, and a Diamond Razor Edge bow..I shoot my 22 really frequently for "varmint shooting" as SR puts it..It's a handy little thing when it comes to coyotes, unwanted pond birds, opossums..the whole deal.

In my family we are all taught at a young age to respect the firearms and how to use them.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

That AR 15 graphic is... I don't even have words. "Machine Gun Thing" "...but it must be bad." How stupid.
Crazy thing is, most people who have the "Full Auto Switch" get it on the black, not a NORMAL household item.
We have one and I feel like it's more of a glorified semi automatic .22, I've shot wayyyy more powerful guns. Again, what some people believe blows my mind.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

FlyGap said:


> That AR 15 graphic is... I don't even have words. "Machine Gun Thing" "...but it must be bad." How stupid.
> Crazy thing is, most people who have the "Full Auto Switch" get it on the black, not a NORMAL household item.
> We have one and I feel like it's more of a glorified semi automatic .22, I've shot wayyyy more powerful guns. Again, what some people believe blows my mind.


Yeah, I know right? .. "Oh my Gawd! It's got a scary name with letters in front of it! It MUST be super extra dangerous!" Eye roll..

No idiot..ANY gun can kill you. It doesn't have to have a scary name..


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## clippityclop (Jul 12, 2012)

Lakotababii said:


> I blame our media for why you are all mistaken. :wink:
> 
> Because quite frankly, there are people even here in America who are afraid of our guns. It does freak some people out, and I understand that. But that's why its called concealed carry, and not open carry.
> 
> :


 

Oklahoma just passed a law I think or something similar that says you don't have to conceal it anymore...

someone correct me/fill me in? I'm suprised we (TX) didn't do the same already........


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I don't know...I shoot rattlers only when necessary and I always hit my mark, it is quick, they do not suffer. I don't take the life of or the suffering of another creature, lightly. With respect to the shooter w a bullet proof vest, if I did not know my weapon well enough to hit a target the size of a man's head or leg -- I would probably hesitate to actually use it when necessary on the torso..i.e., ever.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

gunslinger said:


> It will be interesting what kind of knee jerk reaction will happen after last nights Aurora Co. / Century theater shooting.
> 
> Tragic, in that once again, the shooter was the only one armed. Nobody there could shoot back.
> 
> If only there were one carry permit holder, armed, in the crowd.


Returning here though I swore I wouldn't.

This is a genuine, honest question, because I really don't know the answer, in any of these tragic mass shootings, has the gunman ever been shot by a member of the public?

I don't know, does anyone, if there was anyone else in that theatre who was armed? It is a whole nother level of nerve? I don't know what word I need, but a lot of people can shoot well at a static non animate target, some could shoot on a one to one situation where they or their loved ones were threatened, I would bet far fewer people could actually shoot in a panic and people filled environment like that was.

Once again, my heart goes out to all that have been touched by such a tragic event, so sad.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm definitely one of the people that if my family or loved ones were in danger, like the Colorado tragedy, I would not hesitate to shoot. I'm not sure if it's just a taught skill to immediately relax and steady yourself before shooting that I have learned over the years, but even in a panic I would be able to shoot whoever was coming after me..


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I just don't know, in the dark, place is full of tear gas, you could imagine two scenarios if a bunch of people were carrying

Either there is so much confusion, people thought it was part of the show first, noise, gas and mayhem, that people don't even think to shoot, they just try and keep down.

Or a horrible scenario where there are people who are simply trying to defend themselves, shooting at shadows or innocents out of panic.

Thank God I have never ever been tested on such a way, I really don't know how I would react, but I have a strong feeling even if I was armed I would be flat on the floor with my head well down.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I'm not sure shooting back would have done much good as the guy had some heavy duty body armor.

This guy was intent on doing evil.

May god have mercy on his soul.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

GH, that is certainly a risk in a situation like that, for the armed bystanders to start shooting at everything that moved.

Personally, I would much prefer if all states would make the conceal carry class more stringent. Where you had to take 3-4 days worth of classes that would include tactical shooting, weapons retention, and panic control, similar to the classes that they teach to cops. I am confident in my own ability to remain calm and clear-headed because I've had training, I'm not so sure about everyone else.

As for the OK law, they are now an open carry state and reciprocate with most other states. That means that if you have a license (either concealed or open) from your home state and they are on the list of states accepted by OK, then you can carry your gun anywhere in the state legally without having to conceal it. The only exceptions are, of course, places like hospitals, schools, county buildings (courthouses), banks, etc, where it is illegal to carry regardless.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

^^^^ Our son is a policeman in TX and always carries his gun (concealed) when off duty. He'll tell you the most effective policy is recognizing potentially dangerous situations before anything happens...aka 'profiling'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, notice the shooter picked a dark area (theater) with tight seating to go on a mass murder shooting spree...and he reportedly used tear gas "ahead of himself". To me all of it (dark, seating, and gas) indicate that his _biggest_ worry was conceal and carry.


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

GH there have been many cited cases were a person who is carrying concealed or otherwise has shot someone that is in process of a crime. Many times the shots that are taken are kill shots and many of the people have been former military or leo members.

As for firing back in the theater, most people that carry legally respect an establishments rules on firearms and would not have had their weapon with them. The conditions that the shooting took place in would have also made return fire dangerous to innocent bystanders.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

at least armed you have a chance instead of just cowering in the corner.

Interesting side note, while this act of terrorism is getting world wide coverage and filling up every news and radio station and the politicians and talking heads are blabbing everrywhere with knee jerk reactions. 
A infected nut job took special pleasure in stealing hospital needles, infecting them then putting them back. So far 30 some odd people have been identified with Hep C, yet that story only gets a brief mention. I can see reporting what happend but sensationalizing it, and over analyizing every single detail isnt needed and may be fueling the fire, grantign the nut jobs the publicity they seek.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I don't doubt it Possum, I know that in a 'small scale' for want of a better word crime, people have and will take action to protect themselves and others.

My interest is in one of these horrible mass attacks, when there are large numbers of people involved. I know that groups as a whole are far slower to react than individuals, there is always a delay while a leader or first mover appears. It is a question as I say of genuine interest, because I don't recall any, but then I haven't studied it that hard. I suppose that is why soft targets like schools are often chosen, because they know that there wont be many/any? people carrying.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

possumhollow said:


> As for firing back in the theater, most people that carry legally respect an establishments rules on firearms and would not have had their weapon with them. The conditions that the shooting took place in would have also made return fire dangerous to innocent bystanders.


To say nothing of the fact that he was so heavily armored that it would have taken a 50 calibre, which you aren't going to tote around in your side pocket, to take him down...


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

Here's a recent one for you GH. Florida man who shot suspects during Internet cafe robbery will not face charges | Fox News


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Why did he chose THAT movie? not another one. There is some connection I am sure.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

possumhollow said:


> Here's a recent one for you GH. Florida man who shot suspects during Internet cafe robbery will not face charges | Fox News


:lol: Another reason not mess with old folk.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> Why did he chose THAT movie? not another one. There is some connection I am sure.


Of course there's a connection. He identified with The Joker in the second movie. He told the police that's who he was.

The fact that he picked a midnight premiere of a highly anticipated movie, tells me he wants people to associate the movie with him and what he did. In other words, he'll be famous. At least until people move on to the next tragedy.

He's not insane, he's evil. He wanted fame, and this is how he decided to get it.


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## possumhollow (Apr 19, 2012)

Exactly Speed. This guy's lawyers are going to go for a not guilty by reason of insanity plea on him and may well get it. Unfortunately, he knew exactly what he was doing, had it planned to a T. Personally, I'd like to see him get the death penalty and have it carried out as soon as possible. I'm tired of our tax dollars going to support jerks like this.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

There are lawyers that will abuse every possible angle, so I am sure you are right, possum...but it would seem to me that the fact that it was premeditated would make any reasonable thinking person (which automatically eliminates all trial lawyers) rule out the possibility of an "insanity" plea....unless he escaped from an institution recently, or something.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

It always bothers me that the OK bomber was, in fact, executed within short order (a couple of years, I think)...but other murderers sit on death row for 20 years. It is as if their victims are "less dead", or something. No doubt this guy will be a lifer.


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