# Pictures of smokey black



## Triple E (Jan 27, 2016)

Well I just found out my mare has a 25% chance of having a smokey black baby.... And I have never seen a smokey black before. Anyone have pictures they want to share?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I'll let you know when Patti has her foal. She has 25% chance for Smokey Black & 25% for Smokey Black Tobi, so......we could both get educated.


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## Triple E (Jan 27, 2016)

How exciting!!! When is she "due"?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Triple E said:


> How exciting!!! When is she "due"?


Her "range" is pretty much from April 1 - April 21, so knowing her....April 25. LOL! But she is starting to look reallllly preggo! inkunicorn:


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Here is a gelding that has a good chance of being smoky black:
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-colors-genetics/okay-so-smokey-black-right-104997/
But without testing (his dam was a light buckskin), there is no way to know. Other smoky blacks are identified without testing by producing a palomino or buckskin foal when they are crossed with chestnut/bay. A smoky black can be more prone to severe fading or may not fade at all, looking very black. Cream doesn't dilute black with 1 copy but it can increase chances of bleaching out ;-)


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Oliver fathered a palomino daughter. So he has the crème gene and was given the designation "smoky black".

http://www.horseforum.com/horses/photos/b3bf68c5bdf8ce349a1fedca4db502fc_full.jpg

He is much browner in his winter coat.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> Oliver fathered a palomino daughter. So he has the crème gene and was given the designation "smoky black".
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horses/photos/b3bf68c5bdf8ce349a1fedca4db502fc_full.jpg
> 
> He is much browner in his winter coat.


What color was the mother of the palomino?


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

We don't know. Mom wasn't around anymore. We bought both from a neglect situation and didn't think to ask.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> We don't know. Mom wasn't around anymore. We bought both from a neglect situation and didn't think to ask.


Without knowing the dam's color, it is possible for the cream to have come from her if the stallion has never been tested for cream. But if he has produced another palomino or buckskin by a mare who was chestnut or bay, then he certainly is a smoky black and testing isn't needed ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Triple E (Jan 27, 2016)

So a smoky black is pretty much a black horse (that can sun bleach) but throws colored foals?


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

My understanding was always that crème was recessive to black needing two recessives to meet up in order for an otherwise Black horse to contribute anything but black. :shrug:


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> My understanding was always that crème was recessive to black needing two recessives to meet up in order for an otherwise Black horse to contribute anything but black. :shrug:


Cream is an incomplete dominant. It takes 2 creams to fully dilute black to smoky cream. 

A black horse may or not fade out. 
A smoky black horse may or not fade out, but those that fade can possibly fade much worse but some non cream blacks can also fade badly. 

That is why the only way to know 100% if a black is smoky black you need coat color testing or they produce a palomino or buckskin when bred to a chestnut or bay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Forgive my denseness, this, among other things is why I don't breed horses! The horse in the picture does not fade in the summer despite being out 24/7 in the central Texas sun, he remains black. He does however have a brown winter coat. It does not fade to brown, it comes in brown only over his barrel, you can actually see the brown growing in through the black in the winter. (our winter here is very mild and our days are longer than up north)


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Triple E said:


> So a smoky black is pretty much a black horse (that can sun bleach) but throws colored foals?


Yes, but a black that doesn't carry the cream gene can also fade quite a bit too. My mare does and she doesn't carry a cream gene. I guess smokey blacks would be more prone to it though


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

A smokey black horse is just a black horse with a cream gene, so black, some fade, some don't.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

This is one of our smokey blacks. In my experience even those that don't fade to this extent have the cream in the ears. That may just be the genetics of these horses as all of my smokey blacks are related. This one was tested and has the cream gene. ETA The cream in the ears stays year round even when the new coat (summer or winter) shows up and he is black as black can be.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

QtrBel said:


> This is one of our smokey blacks. In my experience even those that don't fade to this extent have the cream in the ears. That may just be the genetics of these horses as all of my smokey blacks are related. This one was tested and has the cream gene. ETA The cream in the ears stays year round even when the new coat (summer or winter) shows up and he is black as black can be.


Cream in the ears is not unique to smoky black. This mare is a registered purebred Arabian, color tested Ee aa and cream is not in the Arabian breed. The cream in her ears is there year round, the amount she fades varies year to year but she always fades quite a bit.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I should have qualified. These are QH or APH and their black relatives EE or Ee do not have cream in their ears. I did say that that was my experience with my horses and all of those that do were related. It wasn't intended to be a general statement of this is how it is if it was taken that way.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

QtrBel said:


> I should have qualified. These are QH or APH and their black relatives EE or Ee do not have cream in their ears. I did say that that was my experience with my horses and all of those that do were related. It wasn't intended to be a general statement of this is how it is if it was taken that way.


I was just showing that cream interior ears on a black horse wasn't a sign of smoky black. As your experience with smoky black had horses with cream ears, but others could take that description as a sign that a black horse with cream ears is a smoky black. 

We also had a fading black filly who had light cream ears out of a non fading black mare who had solid black ears and by a non fading black sire with solid black ears. I think the cream ears likely has more to do with fading black, but not always a sign that they will fade if they have cream interior ears and not fade if they have black interior ears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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