# ONE MORE MAKES FOUR: my journey with my foster horse



## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 2*

In general, unfortunately, I can't see him every day. I board my horses and they are about a 25-minute drive from me, plus I have a family to take care of as well! But I went out again today because the vet was coming for Moonshine. Just an aside about her -- she's doing even better than the vet expected, he is super happy. That's great because we had been looking at the strong possibility of euthanasia before, due to her stifle injury.

Anyways, what I did with the new guy was stand with him for a while. Then I walked away and he still wants to follow me. I gave him some new alfalfa hay (he has a round bale of coastal) and touched him on his back, flanks, and neck again. He was fine with that, so I expanded to his rear, his stomach, and his legs. No problems.

Since he seemed fine with me touching his legs, I thought I'd try to pick up his feet. So I ran my hands down his legs to his fetlock. He didn't respond at all. So I tried again, and then tapped the back of his fetlock gently and repetitively. After a few seconds he shifted his weight a miniscule amount off that foot, so I stopped, praised him and then stood next to his shoulder facing the same direction he was facing (so we were facing the same direction). I think he likes praise and being close, but I don't want to overwhelm him with too much focus on him. Then I did it a second time and got a slightly bigger shift. A third time and he actually lifted his heel up. A fourth time and he let me pick up his foot. A fifth time and he picked it up for me. I obviously praised him profusely, and of course I put the foot down very gently. He figured out what I wanted on the other front foot by the third try. So I don't know if he HAS had his feet worked on before, or at least picked up, or if he's a very fast learner. To be honest, I don't get the sense that he's an extremely intelligent horse. But maybe I just don't know him well enough yet. This was just his front feet; I'll try the backs tomorrow.

I also got the halter on him and led him around the paddock a bit. He's super soft to lead. I think it's because he's following me, not listening to the pressure of the lead rope. So he just looks at me and goes where I go. That's great, of course, as far as it goes. But I need to work with a little pressure too, to see how he listens to that. He'll need to understand yielding to pressure on his head, for riding.

Oh and I wanted to fly spray him. He didn't mind the bottle or the smell or the sound, but he didn't like it landing on him. So I sprayed some on a towel and rubbed it on him. The flies are really bad right now.

After this I went out to the other side of the fence, where Pony was. I mentioned that their introduction went very well, but I think Pony got jealous of all of the time and praise for the new horse (he was standing there watching me work with him), and he made to lunge at him (mind you there was a strong fence between them) when I was there. I told him off sharply and made him leave (what happens in the pasture stays in the pasture, but they aren't allowed to go after each other when I'm around, as it's not safe). He came back and stood there nicely again for a minute, then tried it again. I headed that one off before it really got started. After that he mostly made stink face at New Horse. I mention this because I'm hoping that New Horse sees me as protecting him after this.

I also just stood around a bit while he ate.

I really want to rush and do everything all at once, but I'm forcing myself to take things slowly. I'm not in a hurry, and I think it's a lot easier to make a mistake you'll regret from rushing than from going slowly. I think this guy would appreciate not being rushed, also.

Overall right now this guy is amazing. I had hoped for a young and friendly horse, and while they knew his age they didn't know anything about his personality. I totally lucked out! Right now he is probably the sweetest, friendliest horse in the barn. I hope his personality doesn't change once he gets some weight back on.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Following!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

AC.... the wanting to be near your face and sniff you their is he is scenting you to know you.
He is not threatening you at all...he is learning you.
If you watch new horses they each smell each others nostril and breath...its how they learn each other.
If his intent is to harm, his attitude indeed would turn and be different but everything you write of and mention the animal is doing is submissive and following your lead.
This horse may actually be highly trained in ground work, so much so he is following your shoulder and body motions.
Try pointing with your finger and see if he follows directions that way.
Turn your body so your facing backwards near his head and take a step forward...if he is really in tune, paying attention he should be stepping back and when you stop and square your feet so should he...in-hand horsemanship training skills...so are the finger wag and so light a touch to his shoulder should direct him where you want him to go..

Now, with all of that...you know I am "*following*" this new journey...

So far all sounds far further advanced in the horse accepting you, your leadership already and I _do_ think you stepped in golden poop with this one.... So far, he has done nothing wrong and much right.
He even figured out what you were asking about feet and willingly gave & complied when obviously it has been a very long time since any of that was required of him.  

Can't wait for the next update..
🐴....


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Love this! You are doing a great job @ACinATX ! I love the detailed descriptions. I do think you really lucked out with this guy, and are doing everything right. 

Looking forward to more!


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Really looking forward to reading this journal . . . but oh! Those feet! They are awful, you are right.


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## Linoone (11 mo ago)

@ACinATX Does he have a name? If so, what is it? You've been talking so much about him, yet I haven't managed to catch wind of his name.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

His name is "New Horse" LOL. The agency said I get to name him, BUT there is a catch -- he can't have a name that another one of their horses already had. So for instance I had been thinking "Beau" but of course they already have a Beau. I have a couple of other things I've been thinking. I want to spend the weekend with him, then I will probably start a "name my horse" thread.

Well, a preview of the other two I have right now:
Trueheart
Amador (Spanish for Beloved)


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## dustyk (Nov 14, 2020)

Ace. AC Excellence.
You're doing an excellent thing


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## IRideaHippogriff (Jul 19, 2016)

I love this so much! I can't wait to follow this foster journey with you.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

*Beauregard* is a masculine name of French origin meaning "beautiful gaze."
A beautiful gaze that horse has watching the other horses from a distance and watching you...

You then have *Beau* as a shortened name and or *Reggie*..
Short for *Reginald*,...
A user from Georgia, U.S. says the name Reginald means "_Royal_". A submission from Florida, U.S. says the name Reginald means "Kingly". 

Either of those names are easy off the tongue to say and have a nice meaning associated with them.

As for the rescue and their "you can't"....please. 🤣yes, I find that funny.
When new owners get a horse they change the animals name...near always to help make it "yours".
Didn't you change Pony's or Moonshine from something else?
I know my horses all got new names and learned them when food was associated with that sound & noise. Took about 2 weeks and the horses recognized their name and a bribe was coming if they responded.

_Name the horse what you want...._
Is the rescue coming weekly to visit and call the horse the name you choose? I highly doubt that...
Pictures sent, updates from the vet since you might still be under vet care since he is so depleted till he is well on the road to recovery...then I wouldn't be surprised to hear crickets till time to move arrives and some tough decisions you face and that rescue too of where do we put him, find another foster or let him go with the ones who have been so devoted to his care and health restored and obviously love the animal...
No contest...if you want him he will go with you...truly.
The rescue would be foolish to forfeit a good home with caring, loving people when the community is so over-flowing with excess animals in need of homes.
🐴... _ jmo..._


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## lovetolope (Nov 20, 2021)

Aww, so glad you got him and are able to give him the care he needs! Looking forward to more updates!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 3*

Today was not as good. He was happy to see me, which was good. I went to work on picking up his front feet, and you'd have thought no one had ever picked them up before LOL. We had to go back to square one, and if anything it seemed like it took him a bit longer to figure it out this time. We did get it done. Next time I work with his feet, I'll be sure to start at the beginning again.

His back feet were worse. My feeling is that he feels unbalanced when they get picked up, or it may be related to him kicking when he had his sheath done, but he wanted to kick when they were picked up. I'm not sure if this was right, but what I did was hold on to the foot until he was done kicking (they weren't very serious kicks) then I said "good boy" and put the hoof down gently. He was the same on both sides. I need to think about what is the best way forward here. I don't want to punish him for kicking right now, as I don't think he's trying to be mean and I don't think starting a fight is the answer. I think he just needs to build up some confidence about picking them up. I'm not sure how to do that right now.

To do something he'd hopefully be better at, I put on the halter and lead rope and led him around again, more than before. This time I really thought about moving the lead rope so as to create pressure for him, and he did react to the pressure, which is good. So he's following closely but also listening to pressure. I think the next thing we'll do is go outside his paddock and go stand in the arena. I'm curious how he will do just standing there. Pony was always happy to just stand but Teddy tends to get antsy. Standing while being held is something else we need to work on before the farrier comes (I am NOT going to try to tie him right now).

I let him eat for a bit, and then he came up to me and wanted to hang out. Well, he wanted to hang out in my space. Like, literally exactly where I was. So we're already having the conversation about personal space, which is good. Let's have it now while he's still weak and malnourished LOL. It's fine... he moves out when I tell him to. I'm not ready to punish him for getting into my space right now. He's not nasty about it, but he's inconsiderate. Does that make sense? He's not trying to move me, but he's not really caring that he's in my space. So for now, unless he gets really rude about it, I'll just keep pushing him back out. If he's still doing it next week, I may need to add "NO" to it. We'll see.


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## Linoone (11 mo ago)

@ACinATX 

I put forth Kingsley as a name suggestion! I think it would suit him quite well.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I love Trueheart...my friend has a Braveheart and we call him Brave. I think True would be a nice name for a horse. Seems like he would have to be an honest one.

I think he is doing well with his feet! With Aria it took a while just to touch her hind legs below the hip, then to allow a lingering hand, and lots of practice before we could shift weight. Those things require a ton of trust. You are taking away their ability to run off. 

I would not stress about kicking movements if he is not kicking at you. Just keep being patient and he will trust more. He is overriding the instinct to pull free and run. 

Be sure to keep the legs very low, and be careful about him losing his balance and falling toward you. Other underweight horses I've handled could hold up their hind legs, but Aria could not for about 6 months. She lacked the muscle strength and coordination. It was a two person job to trim her hinds until then. I could pick her hooves very low, but she fell toward me a lot.

The vet said not to worry, and she holds her legs up very well now. Just be aware a thin horse may not be trying to misbehave if he struggles with hind hoof handling.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 4*

I didn't go see him today, but at some point in the afternoon I had something like a panic or anxiety attack, thinking what have I gotten myself into? I had the speeded up heart rate, tunnel vision, inability to focus on anything. But then I remembered that there's no pressure or rush here. Yes I want to get him to where he can have his feet trimmed, they are so bad. But beyond that the bare minimum that I have to do is feed him up and handle him. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. We will take everything as slowly as both of us need. If there's a day where I get high anxiety while I'm out there with him, well then all we'll do is stand around the hay bale and chill. Neither of us would mind that.

I think I've subconsciously been putting some pressure on myself for him. I need to just let that go. Just take things as they come. I can do that.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Not only can you do that, but we are confident that you'll do it just fine!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

knightrider said:


> Not only can you do that, but we are confident that you'll do it just fine!


I agree! And sympathize...it made me very anxious when I couldn't handle my pony yet. It felt like I could see her hooves growing longer, like one of those time lapse videos. But honestly, they'd never been done in her entire life, so there was no emergency except in my head. It's the same with your horse. His hooves have possibly _never _been done, so regardless of how long it takes you to get them trimmed, they'll not get worse than they are now. He's a million times better off now, with you.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I can understand the anxiety. I felt it when I got my first horse after not having one for over 20 years. Can I remember everything? Can I really afford it? Can I handle any problems that come up? Everything worked out fine and I've learned a lot since then. 

This is a learning experience for you, enjoy it.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 5*

Looking at my last post got me wondering what this horse will teach me. Maybe he will teach me emotional honesty. I mean, being honest with myself about what I feel. That would really be something.

So today we worked on feet again. It was back to square one with the fronts, but at least I was mentally prepared for that, so I was fine with it. He was picking them both up after maybe 3-5 tries.

The backs went a lot better. He kicked out a little on the first one, but small kicks, and just two. Then he stopped and I put it down. I gave him a break and came back. He gave a tiny kick but then wanted to put all of his weight on me. I let him, and then I let him sort of find his balance and get comfortable, and then I put the hoof down gently. The other side was also two very small kicks.

I am thinking it's possible the farrier might not be such an emergency situation. I don't advocate this as a good standard of care, but it seems that his hooves are trying to self-trim. One of the backs already has and one of the fronts is well on its way (see pic). The other back isn't super bad, so if that one other front would self-trim, then I think we'd be ready for the farrier once it was time again.

I took him to the arena. I guess he has never seen sand before, because he was walking with his nose down sniffing it most of the time. You know how some horses cross water? That's how he was. I let him sniff all the ground poles, the standards, the mounting block, whatever poop was in there. I walked him over a couple of ground poles. He just sniffed them and then walked over. He was a little looky but not too much. He didn't shy, startle, or even flinch at anything. I also worked on us standing still, which didn't go so well, so there's another hole to fill. Leading him back, I let him have grass in a couple of places, but then he got kind of demanding so I had to stop. Also, going back into his paddock, I hesitated for some reason and then he stopped and didn't want to go in. I had to use the ole' "turn his head to unlock the movement" thing to get him going. In the future, I'll remember to just not pause there and I think it should be fine.

Today I thought, why am I letting him in my space when I don't want him there, and then pushing him out? I decided to just not let him in in the first place. I know, duh, right? I decided that if he comes in nicely I will let him, and if he barges I won't. So he tried to barge once and I just stopped him with my body language, and that was that.

I'm starting to imagine this horse's history. I'm thinking he must have been a beloved foal, who was much loved by his human(s) and loved them in return. There would have been a lot of them rubbing all over him, and him rubbing all over them. They hand fed him and let him get away with all kinds of things and generally spoiled him because he was so lovable and cute. Then he got bigger and...? They just stopped working with him? They got sick and couldn't spend time with him any more? His wanting to be close wasn't so cute once he weighed 600 pounds? I don't know. The whole thing is just a guess, but he's a bit mouthy, not too careful with personal space, and super friendly. So that's what I get out of that.

OK I don't know if I've just gotten used to him being skinny, but to me he looks better already. See pictures! All the pictures here are from today, but the lighting makes him look skinner in some. What do you guys think, am I imagining it? I need to see if my weight tape came. Also I need to see how he feels about having the weight tape wrapped around him LOL.

Finally, his name is Rowan. My daughter was looking up "hippie" names (because of his "haircut" which looks like hippie hair to her, which I think is totally unfair because who names someone because of the way their hair looks?). She suggested a few, and then she said Rowan. And I just knew that was his name. So he has a name now! Now I can finish filling out his paperwork.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

He's put weight on....no guessing, its their on his frame.
Slow and steady will get him there...let it be at natures pace and not rush it, not yet!
🐴...


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I like the name Rowan very much!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

me too! I think it suits him perfectly, red horse or not.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Rowan is a great name! I think he was also dehydrated, because it's a little too soon to have gained much weight. He looks better because he's hydrated now.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

gottatrot said:


> Rowan is a great name! I think he was also dehydrated, because it's a little too soon to have gained much weight. He looks better because he's hydrated now.


That's what I started to think also. I wish I had thought to pinch his skin. I do know he was urinating fine and the urine didn't seem too dark, but I also think it's just too fast for him to have put that much actual weight on.


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## Michael972 (4 mo ago)

I am so invested in this Story!!!!! You are really doing amazing with Rowan. I hope he continues to be such a great horse for you!!! I will be following and watch this wonderful guy !


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 6*

I had a terrible shock when I got to the barn this morning. Rowan is supposed to be in the paddock in the day and his stall at night. I got there around 11:30 and he was in his stall and lying down. And no one was out there. I knew no one had called or texted me that he was sick. I called the barn owner who said she had had him put back in his stall because he was running around like crazy in his paddock and it was making problems for the people in the lesson. So she had the groom put him back in his stall. And I guess they just left him there and everyone left. They hadn't given him any extra water or hay (he had both left over but still).

So I put him back out in his paddock. Remembering his hesitation to go in yesterday, I planned it out. First I put some alfalfa pellets in his feeding pan so he'd have something to be happy about when he got there. Then I led him with more purpose. As we started approaching the paddock I could feel him start to slow down a bit. Every time he did, I sort of squeezed the hand that was holding the lead rope, like you squeeze-squeeze-squeeze your hand when you're riding and asking in a gentle way to get the horse to drop his head down into contact. That worked fine. Plus he was happy to see the pellets.

I wanted to clean out the paddock a bit. So I brought the cart and manure rake out. He was super interested in what I was doing. He kept smelling the manure, then the rake, then the cart, then me. At one point I guess he kind of snuck up behind me because he poked himself in the neck with the wooden end of the rake LOL. He was just super fascinated by what I was doing. Then, after I stopped to take a break, he kept walking around sniffing the manure piles that were left, as if wondering why I hadn't picked them up, or what was going on with them.

I am feeling more and more like he was someone's pet. Seriously, I thought Pony was a pocket pony, but this guy would jump in my lap if I'd let him.

We worked on feet again. He's still sticky with the front feet, but I think he's picking it up in fewer tries now. With the back feet, I got one tiny kick on one side and nothing on the other. I do think it's a balance issue, though, because the side he kicked on, the next time, he let me pick up his foot but then he took a quick step back to put it down again. With the other side, he's figured out that I'll accept him just picking it up enough to rest his toe on the ground. This is a great place for him to be right now. I think it's still hard for him to pick them up.

Also, I learned today that he is itchy! His shoulders itch, just like all of my other horses right now. He was very happy to have me scratch them. The only thing was, he would push in, hard, when I did. Which is understandable, but obviously not acceptable. At first I pushed him back out, which kind of worked, and then I realized (another "duh" moment) that the thing to do was just stop itching when he pushed in. That worked really well. Also @horselovinguy you were right that he wanted to "groom" me back when I did itch him. I had to gently let him know that he shouldn't do that.

He does take reprimands pretty well. At one point, when I was itching him, he put his mouth on my boot and starting mouthing the toe. I wanted to see what he'd do, so I let him keep doing it. He gave the boot a nip and I said "NO" sharply and stopped itching him. Next time he put his nose down there, you could see him thinking about it and he kept a certain distance between his mouth and my boot.

Finally I introduced him to a saddle pad. I'm thinking he's going to have a poor winter coat, and if we have another cold stretch he'll need to be able to have a turnout sheet put on him. So I thought the saddle pad would be a good place to start. I let him sniff it all over, then he bit it a few times (like a gentle nip), then I rubbed it on him. I would say he was a little hesitant but not too bad. I then left it draped over the fence and went to go do something. When I looked over, he had picked it up and was shaking it around very thoroughly, then he left it on the ground.

His one hoof has self trimmed (see pic). Now if the other will do the same we'll be fine for a while.

We didn't do any leading today aside from me taking him to his paddock. I wanted to have a sort of low-key day.


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## dkgoodman (Oct 20, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> *Day 5*
> 
> Looking at my last post got me wondering what this horse will teach me. Maybe he will teach me emotional honesty. I mean, being honest with myself about what I feel. That would really be something.
> 
> ...


I agree, he looks better in your pics. Rowan is a lovely name for him.


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## MustangJeff (Mar 11, 2015)

Please get a farrier ASAP.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

MustangJeff said:


> Please get a farrier ASAP.


Sorry AC... going to step in for this..

Jeff if you have read along the horse is a rescue and unknown what he knows...and giving a hoof is not one of the things he knows it seems.
AC is working the issue and is well aware care is needed for the hooves, but so is the horse knowing and able to stand, balance and not kill a few when the farrier comes....
A work in progress AC is making headway on....
When she gets him to the point she can get him to balance, stand supporting himself she'll do his feet as she does all her horses currently...
She's only had the animal a few days....
🐴....


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

I love his new name and I love his hairdo! I'll be following your thread with interest. I think you are doing a great job.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 7*

The barn farrier was out there and I showed him Rowan and explained the situation, and he actually said he's fine trimming him if the barn owner will sedate him. I am going to post a question about this before moving forward.

So we worked on feet again, of course. Overall better today. First foot: he picked it up on the second try. Second foot: first try. And he held it up, too. First back foot: first try. But second back foot he was uncomfortable and kicked again. And I wasn't expecting it TBH so I dropped his foot and I feel bad about that. But we worked on it some more. I am keeping in mind that horse training is not a linear process.

I put the saddle pad on him. He kind of eyed it for a second then sort of shrugged and just went on with what he was doing.

My husband and his sister came out to meet him. I was backing up the trailer so I missed the whole thing (yeah it took me that long LOL), but apparently she went in his paddock with just her sandals on and brushed his mane out. I mean, yeah I told them he's nice, but still. See picture -- wow! Anyways he was obviously fine with it and fine with my husband, which is good. You never know if a horse will have issues with men.

I was kind of back and forth putting things away from my trip with Pony today, so I was in and out of his paddock. The last time I went in, he approached me nicely and calmly and I let him in. It turned out he wanted to doze together. So we stood there for 30-45 minutes and dozed. That was nice.

I have to remember that even though this guy looks pretty sad, he's not another Teddy. Teddy needed constant reassurance and coddling and this guy doesn't. Honestly so far nothing really seems to bother him. He just sort of takes everything in stride.

PS my daughter says I'm going to foster fail with him. I explained to her that (1) I don't need another riding horse (I'm assuming Rowan will be rideable) and (2) their rules would prohibit it. But I'm not going to lie -- I like him a LOT! I'm already feeling like only a very special home can have him.

PPS I see one of my photos has been labeled sensitive content. I guess Rowan is so handsome that there's a danger of people swooning. Open the file with care! 
_MOD ACTION: We cheated and couldn't wait to show his handsomeness so now your picture is seen instantly AC... hlg.._


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

ACinATX said:


> I didn't go see him today, but at some point in the afternoon I had something like a panic or anxiety attack, thinking what have I gotten myself into? I had the speeded up heart rate, tunnel vision, inability to focus on anything. But then I remembered that there's no pressure or rush here. Yes I want to get him to where he can have his feet trimmed, they are so bad. But beyond that the bare minimum that I have to do is feed him up and handle him. I can do that. I can do that. I can do that. We will take everything as slowly as both of us need. If there's a day where I get high anxiety while I'm out there with him, well then all we'll do is stand around the hay bale and chill. Neither of us would mind that.
> 
> I think I've subconsciously been putting some pressure on myself for him. I need to just let that go. Just take things as they come. I can do that.





ACinATX said:


> Looking at my last post got me wondering what this horse will teach me. Maybe he will teach me emotional honesty. I mean, being honest with myself about what I feel. That would really be something.


I've been following along on mobile, and am finally back on a computer so I wanted to stop by and hopefully provide some encouragement - I was in your exact same place when I brought Minnie home (our journey is detailed in The Making of Minnie journal). A week before I was supposed to bring her home, she got away from me while I was working with her. I tried for two hours to catch her and get my halter off of her, but ultimately failed. A week later I picked her up, somehow got her onto a trailer and home, and that night she broke the leather halter I had on her off. It took my _an entire month_ to get a halter back on her while she was living in _a small round pen_.

That whole entire month I questioned what I had gotten myself into... Would I be calling the rescue to take her back, and admit defeat?

But now we are years beyond that month wondering if I went wrong. Minnie is proving herself as a wonderful dressage prospect, and people are shocked when I detail the journey I have had with her so far. Your perspective and emotions will change so much with this journey with Rowan - but the experience and lessons he is going to provide you will be invaluable to those any trainer could teach you. Whenever you are feeling in over your head, breathe in, know that you are doing all that you can in the moment and you are able to learn all that you can that you don't already know, and breathe out. Some days, it may just be best to end the session with Rowan, with or without any progress, and try again another day - _that is okay. _You are doing more for this horse than anyone else has done for him up until this point, there is no deadlines, there is no timeline to follow. You will set him up for a successful future - I know that for fact.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 8
Day 9*

I didn't go to see him yesterday. And I didn't have a lot of time with him today. My morning lesson ran wrong. LOL I meant to type long but Pony and I were trying to do flying lead changes, and I think "wrong" was a good Freudian slip, because it didn't go too well. It did go long, too.

But what I did with Rowan went well. First of all, I finally got him to trot. I did it by running slowly in front of him and asking him to follow. At first he only wanted to walk, and fast walk, but I finally did get a little trot out of him. But then he stumbled on his stupid long untrimmed hoof. Which I feel is my fault for not getting it trimmed. But at least he CAN trot. He doesn't see to like to, though. Maybe it's just his feet.

I picked up his feet again. All were good except his "bad" back foot. BUT! This time, yes he still kicked out, but before he picked it up, he thought about it and moved his other feet around first. I feel like he's starting to think about how he can do what I'm asking without unbalancing himself. And him thinking about how he can do what I want is exactly where I want him to be.

I forgot to mention that when I saw him a few days ago I dragged a big dead tree branch out from under his belly. What happened was a big bushy branch had fallen down and he was eating the leaves. But it was from a Chinaberry tree, and I know the berries of the tree are poisonous, and there were berries on the branch. So I didn't want him eating it. It was a big branch and reached almost to his stomach. He had stepped over part of it in order to get at the other part. So I carefully pulled it out from underneath him -- a big, rustling thing that he couldn't see brushing against his legs. He just watched me. No problem at all. Then he followed me as I took it to throw it out of the paddock.  I really like how calm he is so far. 

Today we also reinforced that he should not get into my personal space if I hold my hand up. He's pretty good about that. I've decided what my limit is on physical contact that's initiated by him, and it is (1) he has to ask first (working on that) and (2) he can put his nose and mouth on me but not move his lips at all (also working on it). 

I have learned he doesn't like fast movement around his face, and he doesn't like his ears being touched.

The barn owner likes him, which is good. She tends to make snap judgments about horses, and a horse that is labeled "difficult" is not going to have a very nice life out here. But she is impressed with how calm and confident he is overall.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

You are doing so amazingly well with him!

About the mini anxiety attack - I woke up in the middle of the night obsessing over Rusty again. I'll spare you the details, but I think perhaps we want to do well so badly, and maybe as newer horse people, we question ourselves more (granted, I had horses when I was a child and teen, but really, it's not until 7 years ago that I really was fully in charge of my horses as an adult).

I will add that Rowan's personality is similar to Rusty's. Totally chill about everything and can be completely unaware of personal space. Rusty's background is that he came from a hoarder who had to disperse her herd, so he went to a friend of mine's place as a weanling. There, he wasn't really worked, like, ever. They sat on him a couple of times when he was 5, and when he turned 6, they rode him about 10 times before I brought him home. Mostly bitless and bareback. He was never neglected or anything of course, but he wasn't really taught manners. My friend lived with her parents at the time, and they thought he was hilarious so tended to spoil him and let him get away with things. And in the last year or so of being there, my friend wasn't even living with her parents anymore, but hadn't moved her horses yet so he basically lived wild in a herd with minimal human interaction other than having hay thrown at him. He wasn't in bad condition at all, was well cared-for, but because nothing was really done with him until he was 6, he didn't have very good ground manners and under saddle, not much work ethic. It's improving but it took a long time.

He still doesn't give his front hooves for picking. The worst part is that my friend is a trimmer! Luckily, she trims him still, so I tease her about it every time. But I think I need to give him a refresher because lately, my back has been really bad and he has not been cooperative about giving his front feet. I swear it's a game to him though. When I ask for a hoof, he will put all his weight on that leg, sometimes even lift the opposite hoof! I've never met a horse with such a sense of humour!

In terms of personal space, he's better now than when I first got him. Consistency is key. You're well on your way, luckily!


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## IRideaHippogriff (Jul 19, 2016)

I love the name Rowan! It fits like a glove.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

@Acadianartist, my mare Halla used to do a weight trick with trimming too. When I was working on a front hoof, she'd lean just a little more, little more until she got really heavy. Then she'd lift up a back leg too. If I dropped the front hoof to try to teach her a lesson she would not lose her balance. She'd just set down the hind hoof quickly. She thought it was so funny to make me hold her up. I'll bet it is a game with Rusty too.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Acadianartist said:


> About the mini anxiety attack - I woke up in the middle of the night obsessing over Rusty again. I'll spare you the details, but I think perhaps we want to do well so badly, and maybe as newer horse people, we question ourselves more


I think you're exactly right. I am not a perfectionist, but I want to bring my best self to everything that I do. I think I have a fear of failure, too. And I feel like, this is an animal that had no control over its life and now I'm in charge of him, and I have to be the very best person I can be for him. I am afraid to let him down. I'm afraid that my lack of experience is going to somehow make him worse. Whew. Yeah, maybe this will make me more emotionally honest with myself. All of that is hard to say.

Realistically, though, the more I get to know him the less likely I think it is that I could do something that would permanently scar him. I'm taking things super slowly and we're both really happy with each other. If I mess something up, I think he's resilient enough to recover, and I'm observant enough to understand that I did something I need to not do again. And as long as I'm not permanently scarring him, then any mistakes I make can be fixed.

I will repeat: I can do this.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 10*

I went out after work and didn't have a long time to spend with them. Rowan was already in his stall, a little early IMO. He was happy to see me but not super happy. Usually he is super happy to see me. So I don't know if he was having a not so great day or if it was just being in the stall that wasn't making him happy. He is nice about being in a stall but he really would have rather not been in there.

But because of that, I thought we'd take it a little easy today. Meaning, forget about his back feet. So this is what we did:

Worked on his front feet. I picked out both front feet! This may be the first time he's ever had that done. Along with picking them out came an introduction to the idea that he's going to have to start keeping his feet up for longer and longer amounts of time.
Got him fly sprayed. What I had noticed before was he didn't mind the bottle (he tries to eat it), the smell, or the sound. What he minded was the way it feels when it lands on him. So today I got the fly spray and my hand. With my free hand I sort of rubbed him in brief strokes, and at the same time I fly sprayed that area. I also made a a "tss tss" sound to mimic the fly spray sound, for some reason. He didn't like it too much at first, but by the end of it I had him mostly fly sprayed. Well, from his withers back. I wasn't going to press my luck with his neck / face.
That's pretty much it. I'm glad I went for easy stuff today rather than fighting him about his back feet. I also spent some time hanging out with Pony and Teddy.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ACinATX said:


> I think you're exactly right. I am not a perfectionist, but I want to bring my best self to everything that I do. I think I have a fear of failure, too. And I feel like, this is an animal that had no control over its life and now I'm in charge of him, and I have to be the very best person I can be for him. I am afraid to let him down. I'm afraid that my lack of experience is going to somehow make him worse. Whew. Yeah, maybe this will make me more emotionally honest with myself. All of that is hard to say.


Indeed, horses keep me humble! I'm not used to being completely out of my element so when I first got back into horses as an adult, the learning curve was steep. As an academic by profession, I studied hard! lol Of course only experience could truly provide me with the horse education I was seeking (although this forum has been a huge help!). And I realize now, there will always be more to learn. But that's also what I love about horses - it's a lifelong journey! It never needs to end. As someone who has a thirst for knowledge, that is somehow very exciting to me. 

I never thought of myself as a perfectionist either. It always surprises me when people say things like that about me. But here's the thing: I don't know a lot of perfectionists who describe themselves as such. In our minds, we're not even good enough to be perfectionists which, in a way, actually defines us as perfectionists. 

You're doing great. You've got this.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 11
Day 12*

I was supposed to have a lesson today but everyone went to a show. So I had lots of time to do stuff this morning. It was really nice and quiet, too. 

Rowan was so good about holding up his front feet that I went ahead and got my wire brush and nippers and tried to trim him. But his hooves are super hard, and I was unsuccessful. The trimmer that my bodyworker recommended was injured before, and when I texted him yesterday he said he just got Covid. So he won't be able to come out for a while.

His one back foot is fine being picked up but he was back to kicking on the "bad" foot. I tried a few times until I got a nice pick up and then left it at that. That last time, I did try to help him square up his body first. So I might keep trying that.

My SIL came out and brushed his mane and tail out again. She really likes him. She came out last week and now she's asking if she can do general horse chores like brush and wash them and scoop up manure. I was like... "I ... suppose so...." LOL. No, obviously I jumped all over that. Since she was there, I asked her to lead Moonshine around the arena that has ground poles and walk her over the ground poles, since that's supposed to be good for her. I decided to do the same thing with Rowan at the same time. I figured he'd be happier with her around, since he really wants to be her friend.

However, I think it went worse with him than last time. He was a lot more high-headed, he was a little snorty, and he wasn't as focused on what he was doing. He bonked the ground poles with his back feet many times. And those aren't the feet that are overgrown. I will say it's a bit hard for me to say if he's getting high-headed or not. I think he naturally carries his head higher than any of my other horses. Anyways we were in there for maybe 10 minutes and then left. I didn't want to overface him.

I got him fly sprayed no problem. One small flinch at first, then I did the rest of it without even putting my hand on him (I did keep saying "tss tss" to sound like the sprayer, for reasons that continue to elude me). It went great. I got his neck, too. I'm so glad he accepts fly spray now. He was just covered with flies before.

I also worked on stopping from "hoa." I had brought him a bucket with a small amount of feed and called him over. I gave him some (by letting him eat from the bucket; I don't know when I'm going to be OK hand feeding him) and then asked him to follow me (at liberty), Every few steps I'd say "Aaaaand hoooooaaa" which is my verbal cue. If he stopped, he got some feed. I feel like stopping is important enough to give him food rewards for learning it. He did very well, but it looks like he's responding to my body language (I also make very clear body language when saying hoa) rather than my voice. Which is fine. He'll start associating the verbal cue with the body language and figure it out.

We're still working through personal space and mouthiness. Today when I was walking him in the arena he nipped my arm very gently. I said "NO" in a loud voice and jerked my arm away. His head popped up and back like he had been slapped. Putting that together with everything else I know about him (how he doesn't like fast movements around his head, his mouthiness), I'm thinking maybe his mouthiness and lack of personal space got his previous owner to the point where she'd smack him in the face. Whether that's the case or not, I'm working on being more proactive than reactive with the issue. Letting him nip and then punishing him for it is not the way to go here. It's possible he may lose the privilege of touching me with his muzzle altogether. At least temporarily. He's really sweet and I don't want to keep him to not be able to touch me, but if he can't be respectful then that's what will have to happen.

I curry combed him carefully with the soft curry comb and brushed him. He had a lot of hair to shed out.

I had thought about putting Teddy in the enclosure with him for a bit today to see how it went. Rowan really wants some equine company. And he and Teddy have gotten along very well across the fence. He is submissive and Teddy is a boss, but Teddy's a very nice boss. I think I will try tomorrow. I want to know how he is with other horses before turning him loose in a big pasture with the geldings.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Sounds to me like you're doing great. But Rowan may be coming out of his "honeymoon" phase, where horses are on their best behavior in a new home because they're not sure if they are allowed to have an opinion yet. That can come to a screeching halt, as I'm sure you know. The good news is that he seems like a pretty level-headed horse, so once he gets over the "testing" phase, he should settle down nicely.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Acadianartist said:


> But Rowan may be coming out of his "honeymoon" phase, where horses are on their best behavior in a new home because they're not sure if they are allowed to have an opinion yet. That can come to a screeching halt, as I'm sure you know. The good news is that he seems like a pretty level-headed horse, so once he gets over the "testing" phase, he should settle down nicely.


That's great. Honestly, the sooner we go through the testing period the better. Like I said about some other stuff, let's do it while he's still weak and malnourished. And yeah I think he's a really nice guy so I'm not super worried about it.

I think my only problem is with the mouthing and personal space issues, I have so many different ideas about what to do about it that I'm a bit scattered. I think I need to pick an approach, try it, maybe give it a few days (not sure how long I should try it before expected results) and then if it doesn't work try something else. One thing I'm trying to be really conscious of is not going too far in the "get off me!" direction. Like I said, I don't want to have to take away his privilege of touching me. I'd rather not. But if I need to I will. I'm just trying to figure out, like they say, the minimum amount of correction that we need to get the result that I want.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 13*

He was in his stall again today when I came. I guess that's just going to be a thing on Sunday morning. The barn owner says he starts cantering around and bucking when the hoses in a lesson canter, and Sunday morning is a kids lesson.

He doesn't like being in a stall. He's nice about it, but he wants out. It makes him out of sorts. When I went to halter him today he turned away from me. I was like, "I'm haltering you to take you back out to your paddock" (the lesson was over) but of course he didn't understand.

Front feet picked again today. He tried to snatch one foot away, but it was a balance issue because after I didn't let him have it, he re-positioned his other feet and then was fine. I wonder how long most horses take to get used to moving their weight around to get their feet picked? He's starting to take longer than I expected.

I thought today was going to be testing day (I mean a day where he tests me), as he was grumpy from being in the stall but stupidly kept stopping as I led him to his paddock. I mean, I know he wants to go out there, why is he stopping? He stopped a lot. It almost got to the point where I was going to swing the lead rope at his butt, but it didn't.

So I put him in his paddock and went and drank some coffee and got ready to really have a discussion about leading nicely, and to clarify who is the boss. But then when I took him out he was perfect. We went in the arena again, and he was like the first time -- calm and curious. Not head-uppy. He put his nose on my hand once and I said NO but in a medium firm voice and added a tiny flick of the finger, and that backed him off nicely but without the "head being slapped" effect of what I did last time. And it kept him off the hand for the rest of the time. We went out into the grassy area, where I walked him through the grass and didn't let him eat even though he wanted to. I walked him back to the stall and back to his paddock and got no resistance. As a reward I walked him up to Teddy and let them sniff noses. But except for wanting to eat grass, he gave me no problems. And even then, he was like "I want to eat grass," I let him know "You're not eating grass" and that was the end of it. So I am not sure where we ended up, or why he was not good the first time but fine later.

I sticked him. He's between 15'1 and 15'2. I asked the barn owner for the stick and she was like "He's going to freak out! Horses are terrified when they see that thing suddenly appear at their shoulder!" To which I replied, "We'll see" and thought "I'm not just going to suddenly pop it out at him, duh." I think one of the things I'm decent at is introducing horses to new objects. I never force it. So I showed him the stick and he was somewhat apprehensive about it. I took it away, then brought it out again and invited him to come smell it, which he did. Then he mouthed it for a bit. I moved it closer to him and he was nervous, so I stopped. Etc etc. When I finally put it on him he had no problems at all.

I put Teddy in there with him for a bit! I do want to put him in the nice gelding pasture half days. He's lonely by himself. He treated Teddy just like he treats me -- clingy, lovey, and no personal space. He put his nose on Teddy's butt, and Teddy was nice about it at first but then got annoyed. He made a small squeal, pinned his ears slightly, and lifted his back legs a little. Rowan respected that and moved off. But then later he just kept following Teddy around. The whole thing actually reminded me of me and Rowan, LOL. Teddy wasn't too crazy about being followed around, though. Teddy isn't a leader and doesn't want to be put in that position. Plus Rowan isn't too great about personal space with horses either, apparently. Overall it went really well, although I have to admit Teddy was definitely ready to get out of there when I called him over. I am hopeful that things will go well when he goes out with the other geldings also.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

It sounds like things went very well. I was just remembering...it's not even necessarily a strength thing when it comes to holding up the feet. When I got Amore, she had barely been handled, and it took her several weeks before she could have me pick up one leg without almost falling over. She was a very athletic horse, and was fed decently, just barely handled. So she had strength, but struggled with coordination. She was really bad about figuring out how to shift her weight onto the other legs when I picked one up. Even a front leg, she'd just tip almost completely over. 
It could be Rowan is more right-sided/handed or left-sided/handed, so has more difficulty on his awkward hind side.


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## Lwest.18 (8 mo ago)

He's starting to fill out nicely! Glad to see he's gaining weight.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 14*

I didn't have a lot of time with him this morning. I had a lesson and it ran long. LOL not "wrong" this time.

I introduced Rowan to a whip. You never know how a horse will react to a whip. He reacted by chewing on it, which didn't really surprise me. Then I started brushing his body with it, but then I realized I was just brushing off flies, so I went and fly sprayed him instead and forgot about doing any more with the whip.

I showed him Teddy's turnout sheet. I brought it outside his paddock, where he was eating, and tried to shake out all the spiders. I think I've mentioned this before elsewhere, but to me there are three types of spiders: black spiders = black widows, brown spiders = brown recluses, and large spiders = tarantulas. There were several of each type of spider in the turnout sheet. I brought it over there to shake it out so I could see how Rowan would react. He didn't care. Then once the spiders were definitely out, I brought it over to him and he chewed on it.

But, he was a bit leery of it approaching him. He was OK with approaching it, of course, but not the other way around. The way he likes me to approach him with scary objects is to hold the object on the opposite side of my body as him, preferably far away. So if I'm on his right side, I will hold the sheet out to the right. Then I will approach him and pet him with my left hand. Once he's OK with that I will keep petting him and then bring the sheet (or whatever the scary object is) over to him and start rubbing him with that while still petting him. Even then, he was still a tiny bit leery of it. However, by the end of the session I was tossing it over his back, letting the straps and buckles rub all over him, and opening it out over his body. At the same time, right on the other side of the fence, they were using the tractor to try to pull some trailer out of the mud. There were lots of stinky diesel fumes. But we did it. I didn't try to buckle it today. I left it on his fence.

One thing I noticed while doing this is that he has a "good" and a "bad" side for things to be introduced, the good side being his left side and the bad side being his right side. I have read many people assert that horses are like this, but none of my horses are. So I never really believed it. I don't know if it's because they are older and have had more stuff done to them, or, really, what it is. Rowan has so far been pretty calm about things being done to him, but he definitely prefers them to be done on his left side. Which obviously means I will have to really be mindful of always doing everything on both sides of him.

His hooves were interesting today. I got the fronts picked, but it was a bit of a fight. And he seemed unbalanced. I might back off a bit and just go back to asking him to pick up and hold them for a few seconds. The good back foot went fine. As for the bad one, I tried to move him around a bit so it would be in a better position for him to distribute his weight, but that didn't work. BUT! When I asked him to pick it up, he stepped back with his other foot so that he COULD balance and pick it up nicely. There was no kicking. I just held it for a second and put it down nicely. So I guess it's just going to be one of those things where we're not going to be progressing in a straight line.

I won't be going out there tomorrow.

ETA: I think I'll try to add a highlight of the day, since I'm writing so much and it might otherwise get lost. Today's highlight was that ONE step he took backwards when I asked him to pick up that bad back foot. This tells me that he's thinking about what I'm asking, trying to do what I'm asking, and trying to figure out what he can do to make that happen. I think it shows that he's thinking and engaging with me, which is great. And on a higher level, it says we are communicating effectively. And in a nice way, without stress or undue force.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Actually we might be going out there this afternoon after all. But I had a thought I wanted to put in here.

I wonder if one reason he prefers to be approached by new objects in the way I described above (I hold the object out on my other side) is my focus. I'm thinking back to how I approached him with the turnout sheet for instance, and I think I was super focused on the body part I was going to touch with the sheet, and that focus created pressure which made him move away. I'm thinking of it like a sort of V-shaped arrow thing. I am sure this isn't going to make any sense, but here goes.

When I approached him straight on, it was like my focus was an arrow going into the one spot I was looking at. So Me > Rowan body part. In other words, it's like magnifying all of my attention and focus on one part of his body. Whereas when I was approaching him with the object out on my other side it was more like Me < Rowan, like my focus was gentle and all over his body, because I wasn't really thinking about where to touch him with the object right then.

To try to clarify, those aren't greater than and lesser than signs, they're my attempt to visually show my focus all being concentrated into one tiny point vs my focus being general and wide.

I feel like, thinking back on it, yesterday I was feeling very much like I need to focus focus focus and do do do, and that was coming across in my body language. If we go out today then maybe all I'll do is hang out with him and think about soft body language. Or I might try to approach him with an object while being very aware of my body language and focus.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 15*

He was already in his stall when I went out, unfortunately. He wasn't feeling AS bad about being in there today. I had talked to the barn owner about turning him out with the nice geldings in the nice gelding pasture at night, and she agreed. She wanted to try him out there for an hour first and see how it went. So that's what I decided to do today. 

But when I took him out there, the only other equines were the two mini donkeys. He approached them, but maybe with a little too much energy, because they kept scooting away. They've already all met over the fence, very nicely. After a couple of times, he lost interest. He was a lot more interested in smelling all the poop. So he walked around for like 10 minutes smelling poop. I decided to stay with him. After that 10 minutes, they turned out the nicest of the nice geldings and I stood back ready to see what would happen.

It was a total non-event. This gelding, P, smelled Rowan's butt. Rowan didn't like it so he walked away. Then P left. Rowan went back to smelling poop. After another five minutes I decided to work on coming when called so I got a bucket and a small amount of senior feed, then called him when he came. Then I haltered him then took the halter off. I did that a few times. He really wasn't interested in going out where P was, so I decided we'd just leave. So I took him out and let him graze on the nice green grass that's right outside that pasture. I let him graze for a bit and then put him back in his stall. So that was his very short adventure in the nice gelding pasture.

I cleaned out his stall. As usual, he was very interested in the process. In my mind, he's saying "Whatcha doin'? Can I do it too?" I don't know.

The barn owner said he's getting hard to catch but she may just be talking to talk. She does that a lot. It also may be his ear sensitivity. I told her that, and that they should halter him by undoing the buckle and putting it over his head rather than using the clip (the clip forces you to mess with their ears). I am afraid he's getting worse about his ears. If they're mooshing his ears to get the halter on, that might be what's causing it. It's on my list of things to work on, but it's pretty low on that list.

No real highlights for today. Except maybe that he didn't just run off when I turned him out into that pasture. I'm not sure yet how easy he's going to be to catch once he's out there. At least today he was very catchable.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Glad to hear it went so well!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I hadn’t been reading this journal, but I really enjoyed it thus far!

I had a couple of thoughts. Queen hesitates on the way back to the corral 99% of the time, and Cash used to too, and still does about 50% of the time. They don’t want to go back. They are just trying to make it clear they aren’t done. I think maybe Rowan just wanted to work with you, not be turned loose. I am finally working on making Queen stop hesitating, because although I understand what she is saying, when I need to put her up I need to put her up. Lol. She is a horse who thinks she must make her opinion known.

The other thing I was thinking is about sides. I think many horses are more comfortable being approached from the left, because we tend to do everything from the left. I make a conscious effort starting a colt to keep both sides equaled out, but know eventually I do everything on the left and they can be leery of the right. My old horses definitely get that way.

Now, because roping and dragging happens on the right, they are pretty confident on the right ridden about those sorts of things, and have that lack of confidence on their left being ridden.

I wonder, just because of his confidence level on the left, if someone didn’t try and do some work with him somewhere along the line.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

To be more detailed, lol, the colts I have started may have a slight differentiation between one side or another, but it’s minimal and easily worked out. It’s when they have been exposed that I begin to see the difference.

Now, in the very beginning I find myself being more uncomfortable on the right, because it’s uncommon for me. I find the colts to perceive it almost exactly the same as the left, everything is new.

Yet, say Queen who isn’t too far beyond that being started phase, is already uncomfortable on the right because I have stopped doing any work on the right. Horses have a mind for both eyes. This is something I believe in training a horse, although don’t literally because obviously they do not hold two separate minds. What I believe is they differentiate between the eyes. This eye sees a lot, and therefor it doesn’t mean that much, but this eye doesn’t see that. They also are handed like people I believe, and so one side is easier to work with because they are better at it, but that doesn’t relate to what eye they are used to seeing things out of.

So, all of our horses are more comfortable being approached on the left, and it is human caused. Our humans are uncomfortable on the right, excepting small children, who like the unhandled colt, don’t know the difference.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 16*
*Day 17*

Bleah. Today I went out there with my welcoming blending openness and nobody cared.

We’re back to square one with Rowan’s “bad” back foot. Where we ended up today after a lot of practice was me just asking him to pick it up and quickly put it down. That doesn’t make him feel like he has to kick. I guess we’ll keep doing this? Maybe if we do it enough, he will gain some muscle and be able to do it better. Aside from that, I picked up all of his feet a lot today. His last long foot is starting to self-trim, so I’m giving him maybe four weeks before he’ll need to see a farrier for real. So we really need to get his feet picked up.

The nice geldings came over and they all sniffed noses (and other parts). Today there was a little squealing. But since they were all there, I decided to put Rowan out there with them. But he was mostly more interested in trying to eat grass than in interacting with them. There was a little bit of ear pinning, a little bit of sniffing, but basically those three geldings made a herd and kept together, and he just wanted to stick to me. I don’t know if maybe I should have left. Also I think part of the reason he stayed with me is I had indicated to him that if things got rough he could hide behind me and I’d chase off the other horses. I don’t know. Did he feel threatened by them? Did he just not care? He so very much wants to interact with them over the fence that I can’t understand why he doesn’t when he’s physically with them. Eventually I just let him out of there and he was happy to leave.

I mean, when I put Teddy in there with him, he was so happy that Teddy was there and just wanted to interact with him a lot. So why is he standoffish with the other horses?

I decided to let him experience the round pen today. I always like to take someone in there for a low pressure session before we do any actual work, so they can get to understand that it’s not a big deal. So what I did was put a small pan with about a handful of feed in it and I brought him over there and let him eat it. But he just took a few bites and then wanted to explore, which of course was fine. I let him explore for a while, then eat some more, then come back to me. I put his lead rope on and just walked him around and worked on “aaaannnd hooooooaaa.” He was pretty good.

Then the other horses showed up. The round pen is in the pony pasture. S is a jerk of a pony. So he wanted to meet Rowan and then act all study and bite at him a lot. Rowan actually kicked out at him. But. I mean, Rowan could have just walked away from the fence (it’s a 60-foot round pen). He didn’t have to stand there and get annoyed and then kick. S brought C with him, and they were both jerks to Rowan. One more pony came over, Ch, and he and Rowan seemed to get along better. Ch is known as being a low-key friendly pony. But every time Ch and Rowan tried to sniff noses, S ran over and chased Ch off and then got into it with Rowan.

So I had the great idea of chasing S away. But S is very excitable and I forgot that S does this thing where he just runs around the outside of the round pen. So he got to running, and C got to running, and Ch got to running, and so of course Rowan wanted to run also. So he was basically round penning himself, I guess, with some encouragement from those guys. Rowan DOES have a trot, I can confirm, and it’s a nice trot. He also has a very nice canter and picks up the correct lead. One good thing, I guess, is that he’d keep wanting to cut across the middle where I was (I was just standing there watching them all) and he acted like he wanted to run to me. But I wasn’t going to let him run to me (he needs to come to me calmly) so I just raised my finger and tipped my head to one side and he’d run past me on that side. That happened multiple times. If he settled down and came to me nicely I praised him and petted hm and was calm with him. I was basically the calm oasis in a round pen of crazy, and he eventually decided he’d rather be quiet in the center with me than running around with the other guys.

Here is the thing that’s really interesting to me. I’ve seen people do a join up with their horse in the round pend, and at the end the horse is coming in nicely and then follows the person around without a lead rope or anything. Well, that’s exactly what happened here. Even though I wasn’t doing anything or putting any pressure on Rowan. After he decided he’d rather be calm in the center with me, we walked around a bit and he was at my heels the whole time.

This makes me wonder what’s actually happening when someone round pens a horse. When I’ve watched people do it or read about it, the idea seems to be that the human creates pressure and then releases the pressure, and the horse learns that if it goes to the human it doesn’t have to work any more, so it wants to go to the human. Additionally, the idea is thrown around that this mimics wild horse behavior, as a horse that tries to join the band would be run around until it “submits” with its body language and then it’s allowed to join the herd. And that by round penning, you establish to the horse that you and the horse are a herd.

But if the same thing happened with us as the result of external pressure (or was it him putting pressure on himself to run with the others?) and me just standing there being calm, then what is it that ACTUALLY causing the horse to “join up”? I really want to think about that.

Getting him out of there was difficult, due to the other horses all running around. But we did it and I walked him back to his paddock. He was a little high-headed all the way, but overall fine. FYI I have yet to see him spook at anything. He does get high-headed but that’s all so far. I really appreciate that about him.

ETA: I've put Rowan's hair in the mail for the ancestry test!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Knave said:


> To be more detailed, lol, the colts I have started may have a slight differentiation between one side or another, but it’s minimal and easily worked out. It’s when they have been exposed that I begin to see the difference.
> 
> Now, in the very beginning I find myself being more uncomfortable on the right, because it’s uncommon for me. I find the colts to perceive it almost exactly the same as the left, everything is new.
> 
> ...


Regarding sidedness, I am not convinced it is caused by humans completely. My thought is that if many horses are right-handed/sided, then they might find it easier to run away to the right. Which might make them less happy about being approached and handled on their right side because they'd have to escape to the left.

Aria had more difficulty accepting new things on her right side until she felt comfortable and safe. Blankets, saddle pad, harness, she was more skittish and less accepting. This is something I have seen before with horses that were completely unhandled. Which makes me think it's not caused by humans at first. Later, if we habitually do everything from the horse's left side, we probably make them that way.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

like @gottatrot , I think 'sidedness' is in part physically built in to the horse, from birth . The foal is curled up in the womb in a certain way . I believe it is most frequently curled to the left, but I'm not certain of that. You will often see horses with one front leg a bit more 'bent' than the other. I have heard this is normal and due to their womb position while developing. Could be a load of hogwash, but that's what I read . . ..somewhere.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 18*
*Day 19*


I didn’t do as much with Rowan as I wanted today. I had a hard fall off Pony and hurt my one finger and scraped up the others pretty good. So I didn’t really want to do much. Mostly I just hung out.

One thing we worked on, though, is lowering his head from pressure on his poll. He can get high-headed, as I’ve said already, and I’m worried that that might translate to bridling problems. He gets high-headed sometimes when I’m haltering him, until he realizes that I’m not going to touch his ears.

And that’s another reason I want to work on lowering his head from poll pressure. He’s already a little skeptical of my hand being there, I think because of the proximity to his ears, so this is sort of a backdoor way to work on getting closer to his ears. In other words, we’ll work on the poll lowering thing and that will desensitize him to that area being touched a bit, and he’ll be focused on doing what I’m asking (lowering his head) and get used to having the area near his ears touched without the pressure of “We’re going to work on touching your ears now.”

I worked on it on Thursday but I think I was teaching him to turn his head, not lower his head. We were in the round pens with all the ponies running around, so it was maybe not the best environment for learning. We did a lot better today. I also used his salt lick. What I mean is, it was in a pan on the ground and he would lick it. When he stopped licking, he would raise his head. Then I’d put my hand on his poll. And either he was trying to figure out what I was asking or he wanted more salt, but either way when he put his head down to lick the salt the pressure obviously went away.

Then I guess he was tired of the salt, but I wanted to keep doing it, so I did it and then gave him a cookie in the same pan. I have already said I won’t hand feed him treats, not until who knows when. But I guess he’s not dumb, at least when it comes to food, because he realized the cookie had to come from somewhere, and that somewhere was most likely my hand, so he got distracted by wanting to nose my hand. So after two attempts we stopped.

Then I took him over to a place where there was no feed or salt and asked again. He did it. So maybe he’s figured it out. I have to admit, I didn’t feel like he was too engaged in the learning process for this, but I think we got there. I’ll try again tomorrow.

I didn’t touch his feet at all due to my injury. I am writing this at the ER. I got a splint for my finger and have to see an orthopedic surgeon next week, but for now the splint is holding things together. I might try to put some bandaids on the other hand – it’s super scraped up.

He got a new round bale today. I took more pictures of him. He’s looking a lot better.

Ugh, I just realized that when I did the lowering of his poll, I just did it from the left! After all that writing above about how I want to do everything from both sides! I'll try the other side tomorrow.

Today's highlight: he seems like he's putting his head down now in response to pressure on his poll. I'll see how he feels about it tomorrow, though.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 20*

Another day of not much time. I put Rowan out in the gelding pasture again, but he just barely interacted with P, and then he came to the fence and gave me pathetic looks until I eventually took him out. I don't understand it. He loves other horses when they are over the fence, but not so much in person. Except Teddy. And I can't put him out with Teddy because Pony and jerk pony S are in that pasture, and both would just run him around.

Rowan knows when I'm calling him and comes, at least when he sees me with food LOL. I haven't tried calling him yet without giving him a food reward when he comes.

I do think I'll ask the barn owner to go ahead and start putting him out there at night. We'll just see. If he seems stressed out in the morning then we'll have to reconsider.

I walked him over the ground poles. We did some very slightly raised poles as well (like 2-3 inches off the ground). He did fine with them. I'm hoping this will help develop his muscles and get him able to pick up his feet better for being worked on.

We reinforced the verbal cue for stop. He can stop really nicely. But it turns out he doesn't like to stay stopped. He would get twitchy after maybe 10-20 seconds and want to move. I let him circle me (look at us, lunging already LOL). Then eventually he'd stop and I'd praise him. Then wait a few seconds, before he started feeling like he needed to move, and start walking again. Sometimes when stopped he wanted to push into me. We had quite a few discussions about that, and my famous Polish elbow was brought out a couple of times. I feel like he got a little better about it but not much. Obviously standing still is another requirement for the farrier. I haven't tried semi-tying him yet, but my guess is he won't do well with it. Right now I think what I need to do about standing still is just try to get him for a few seconds, then walk him some more. Then keep increasing the amount of time we stand still. We'll see how that goes.

We also worked on head down from poll pressure, which he did pretty well with. But I don't feel like his mind was really on me. He was looking around a lot. In general, he's a very alert and looky horse. He's always looking around -- where are the other horses, what is moving, what is that thing over there. But he's never spooked or even shied. But the lookiness plus the not wanting to hold still makes me think he's worried or anxious. I helped Teddy with that, it just took time, patience, consistency, and working through things together. Me asking Teddy to do things he wasn't quite comfortable with but weren't too far out of his comfort zone, and him learning that he could do them. Teddy also needed clear leadership, I recall.

I don't want to do Rowan a disservice and just label him another Teddy and be happy that I've put him in a box and then treat him exactly like Teddy. But I do find that it's helpful for me to categorize him. Rowan is different in a lot of ways. I don't know, I'll just keep working with him and see.

Also my middle finger is in a splint now and that's sort of limiting what I feel comfortable doing with him. It still kind of hurts off and on. (This is from falling off Pony yesterday). I need to find an orthopedic surgeon this coming week and have it assessed again. The XRays they took at the ER showed that I had completely pulled the tendon for the last digit of that finger off the bone. The splint makes my whole finger stiff and it's about 1/4 of an inch longer than it should be, and I definitely haven't gotten used to it yet.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm surprised you can even type!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

tinyliny said:


> I'm surprised you can even type!


I am typing very slowly and with lots of mistakes, LOL.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 21*

I got a notice late last night that the lady who reflocks saddles was coming this evening. Obviously I jumped on that, given the issues I've been having with Pony this past week. So I was out there this evening with Pony and didn't have time to actively do anything with Rowan.

They officially turned him out into the gelding pasture for the night. But this is what happened. See, the gelding pasture has a small part that borders our barn and also the small paddock where Rowan was. There is a pond that blocks this part of the pasture from the rest of the pasture, which is quite large. There's a strip of land that connects them, but you can't tell that from the inner part of the pasture. So Rowan was in this small part kind of eating nicely with one of the TBs, and then the TB left. Rowan seemed kind of sad about it. The TB walked around the narrow strip of land that connects the two parts of the pasture, but I don't know maybe Rowan didn't realize that's what happened? 

So I went in there and offered to Rowan that I was going to slowly walk out to that part of the pasture, and if he wanted to come with me he could. He did! He slowly followed me across the narrow strip of land and out into the main part! We walked along the pond on the other side. After a while the other horses saw him and came up. They were overall pretty nice. I think if Rowan had just let them smell his butt it would have gone better, though. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a horse. But basically they "chased" him at a walk across half the pasture. Then they all went to a corner where it borders my pasture and Teddy was there and they all sniffed noses. Then one of the TBs decided that Rowan didn't deserve to sniff noses with Teddy and "chased" him away again.

They were kind of keeping him out but not too bad. Hopefully they can learn to get along.

*Highlight of the day: Rowan really likes me and will follow along if I even just suggest it (and probably if I don't LOL).*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 22*

Another short evening out there. Basically I just fly sprayed him and fed him. He's supposed to be out in that back pasture at night and in his paddock in the day. I asked the groom if he was doing that, and he said yes. But I got to the barn at about 6:00 and the groom was bringing him IN from that pasture. There's barely any hay out there. I asked the barn owner to put out a round bale and she asked the groom to do it and he said yes but it didn't get done. If it isn't out there by next time I go, I'm going to have to ask again and then make other plans. He can't be out there all night with no hay, and he certainly can't be out there all night and all day with no hay. Before I left I made several hay piles for him.

I asked him to follow me out there again and he did. This time I actually asked for it. There was only one other horse out there and that horse was really lonely, so I thought maybe this was a friendship opportunity. The kind of cool thing is, Rowan followed exactly where I walked. There was a clear path that I followed most of the way, and he followed it to, but when I veered to one side he went the same way. After a while we stopped and saw the other horse.

The other horse saw us too and came trotting up. Rowan was a little intimidated. I let him hide behind me and then I stopped the horse from getting too close. It was kind of funny, I guess I stopped him kind of suddenly and hard because he almost spooked to a stop. He was like, "Yikes!" Then I let him come closer at a walk, but then he only wanted to hang out with me. I wanted him to hang out with Rowan. So I petted the other horse for a few minutes and then sort of backed away from him, halfway to Rowan. I was thinking to make a triangle out of us and then maybe the other horse would go to Rowan. He did! I'm not sure how happy Rowan was about it, though. The other horse put his nose on Rowan's butt and then walked Rowan back to the front area of the pasture.

That's all for today. I'm really bummed about my finger because it's making it hard to pick out my own horses' feet, and they know how to hold up their feet. If Rowan wanted to kick with his back foot, I couldn't hold him, AND if I tried it would really hurt my finger. I really need to work on his feet but I don't know what to do right now. The internet says my finger will be in a splint for at least six weeks.

Highlight: Rowan really does follow when asked, at liberty. And he follows the same way I go. Maybe he really does see me as a leader.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 23
Day 24*

Yet another short evening. I mean, I was out there for a couple of hours but I had to do stuff for my other horses too. And then clean the stalls, make sure the waters are clean and full, get his feed ready. I don't know where the time goes when I'm out there. I'm starting to wonder how much value there is in spending just an hour or two there.

What I did with him today was first check with the groom, who said the other horses weren't biting him any more. Then I walked out to the round bale in their pasture to see for myself. They were all eating nicely. Rowan looked up when I came, but it wasn't with a worried face, and he didn't run to me to hide behind me. He seemed content and peaceful, and like he felt like the other horses were his friends.

OMG there were so many flies out there it sounded like a beehive. So I walked all the way back to the barn (this is at least a five minute walk, so maybe that's where some of my time went today, as I walked it several times) and got my fly spray and came back out and fly sprayed him. Then I went back in to fly spray my horses, pick their feet, etc.

Then I decided to see if he will still come when called. So I walked back out there again. I stopped maybe 20-30 feet from the round bale. He turned to see me again and then went back to eating. I stood there for a bit and then called him. He looked and me and then came. And he followed me all the way back to the barn. I gave him a nice thick flake of alfalfa hay.

I had been thinking to work on picking up his feet while he ate, but I had to scoop poop first, and by the time I was done, so was he. One of his friends came over and he wanted to go back out with him.

I hope he relaxes a bit now that he has some friends.

*Highlight: he was happy to be with his new friends but happier to come back to the barn with me. So I guess he's not getting buddy sour like I was afraid he might.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 25*

I spent a lot of time out there but didn't do all that much with him. One thing I really wanted to work on was stopping. I mean, staying stopped. So we went into the arena that has the ground poles and walked around a lot. One good / bad thing is when the horses in the arena next to us started cantering, he wanted to canter also. So he kind of took off, hit the end of the lead rope, took a few strides, and thought, "Oh, right, I'm on a lead rope right now" and stopped. He was still pretty worked up, though. There's something about that particular arena -- I think it's got something to do with the mirrors at the one end. If horses start cantering in there, he wants to run around also.

So I took him to the far side of the arena we were in and just walked him a lot. He didn't try to run off again, which was the good thing. He was still pretty looky. Then after that lesson was over, the two extremely buddy sour mares got separated and running around, and so he was looky again. Still with me, more or less, but looky.

We were in there walking around for something like 20-30 minutes. Walk over a ground pole or a raised pole, walk, stop, stand still, maybe practice head down from poll pressure, walk again. Toward the end I think he finally really relaxed -- his head came down, his body seemed softer, he was licking and chewing, and he even sighed a couple of times. I was really, really, trying to be the most relaxed version of me to help him, so I guess it eventually worked. We worked on staying stopped, too, but I tried to make it so that I had him move again before he wanted to move. And I tried to stay stopped a little longer each time. Basically the longest he can stand still on a lead rope right now is 40 seconds. After that he starts circling me. That's not very long at all.

He's still occasionally thinking of nibbling my hand. It's kind of funny, I was watching his shadow and I could see his nose sort of creep up to my hand, and sometimes he'd try to nuzzle it and sometimes it was like he was thinking "Oh, right" and his head would snap back. This was without me doing anything. However, despite this, I don't think my just saying "NO" loudly when he put his lips on me is deterring him that much. When I do it, he sort of just looks at me. Today I tried a sharp hiss and that seemed helpful. We'll keep working on it. A kind of funny (?) annoying (?) thing is, when he's thinking about putting his nose on my hand and we go over a ground pole, he bonks it with his feet because he's not paying attention. I explained to him that this was the consequence of his own actions, but he didn't seem convinced.

I realized today when putting my guys back in the pasture today that I let them put their noses on me the whole way. However, they rarely try to nibble. So this is a habit I have -- not keeping the horse out of my space. Yeah, we'll just keep working on it.

One thing that I didn't like was that when I put him back in his paddock I realized he was sweaty. It was a really hot day, and they're already getting their winter coats, but all we did was walk around for a while. Could he be so out of shape that I over-taxed him? We stopped a lot, too, so surely that's not the case. My guess is he was kind of stressed by trying to be "good" when all of the commotion was going on. I say this because he really did seem relaxed by the end of it.

So we ended that on I hope a good note and I put him back in his paddock to eat. After a while I came back and asked him to pick up each of his front feet, and he did. I can't hold onto feet very well with my finger like it is right now, so I didn't ask for anything else. I think I will have to look up picking up their back legs with a rope. Maybe I could do that even with the finger. I also put Pony's lunging surcingle on him to see if he was OK with that. He was OK with it being draped over him but he didn't want me to fasten it, so I didn't.

Finally since he was eating next to the pipe fence, I climbed up on the fence and leaned over him. I've heard that some horses get freaked out when you do that when going to mount them at first from a mounting block, so I thought I'd see how he felt about it. Mostly he didn't care, but a tiny bit he seemed a little confused about why I was so tall.

*Highlight: finally got the lick / chew / sigh when working with him. This is the first time that's happened. By the end of the session he was relaxed and *_*focused on me.*_

Lowlight: I am not sure things are really clicking for him. Overall it's hard to get him focused on me, and he's not very invested in the learning process. This is the first horse I've worked with without giving treats while training him, and it's definitely handicapping me. I'm not sure if I should just keep doing what I'm doing, since for instance with the walking around and stopping, he eventually settled down, or if I should try something else.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 26*

Things we did.

Walked around the arena some more. It went a lot better this time so we didn't spend as much time on it. I know where his head should be now, and it's actually around where my head is, which is good. What I mean by that is that I know where his relaxed head carriage spot is. He didn't try to nibble me, although he did get an elbow in the face a couple of times. This was me just randomly swinging my elbows back.
Worked on head down from poll pressure. I think he has it. The only thing is, it feels like an automatic response, not like something he's thinking about. I wish he would think about it. We did it in the arena and then later in his paddock at liberty. One thing I only realized later is that he isn't showing any concern about my hand being near his ears any more. That was one of the things I had wanted to accomplish with this, but then I had forgotten about it.
Put the lunging surcingle on and left it on for maybe 15 minutes. 
Worked on "and hooaaaa" a lot. He mostly has it. From now on, I think we'll just casually incorporate it.
Today I tried to spend some time figuring him out. I feel like I've been doing things to him, where I need to do things WITH him. But I need to have some more idea of who he is and what he likes first.

Today after he finished eating he started pacing the fenceline that separates his pasture from the nice gelding pasture. I guess the flip side of him being friends with them is that he wants to be out there with them all the time, even though I think they've pretty much eaten that round bale that was out there. Sorry, Rowan, you need to gain more weight before you can be out there all the time.

Anyways, I went out there to see if I could somehow make him feel better. He came up to me and wanted to be close, so I let him. I tried to scratch or pet him but he didn't want that. He didn't want to just stand there either, so he eventually went back to pacing. So I tried something else. I asked him to follow me. We just walked around the paddock, changing directions doing tight turns, speeding up, slowing down (even cantering once!). I was trying to figure out what about it Rowan liked. So every now and then I'd stop and do a little dance (he watched) or jumped up and down (he took some steps back) or just stop him with my body language, wait a few seconds, and then invite him in, which he did really nicely. (This is where we did the poll lowering at liberty)

If I stood stopped too long, he'd start to lose interest and eventually drift off somewhere else.

So, I can tell you what he likes. Rowan likes to follow. I should have realized this. He follows me, he follows Teddy, he follows the other horses, when a horse in the arena canters he wants to canter. But he really, really, likes to follow. Like I said, if I stood still too long he would leave. All he wanted to do was to follow. I just can't get over how much he wants to follow. I'm wondering now if anyone ever actually did teach him to lead, or if he just leads nicely because it means he gets to follow. He is the followy-est horse I've ever seen.

I feel like I should be able to leverage this somehow to help with his training, but I'm not sure how yet.

His foot finally finished self-trimming and he's gained enough weight that I'm going to try to actually work him in the round pen and see how that goes. Having written the above out, I'm guessing there may be a learning curve ("You are asking me to move but without following you???") or maybe not. We'll see.

*Today's takeaway: Rowan likes to follow.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 27*

Rowan's feet are in decent shape right now and he's gained some weight, so I round penned him today. He did well enough, and I did poorly enough, that I have to believe he's done this before. We had some problems:

Stopping. I could get him to transition downward from just body language, but I couldn't get him to stop. I mean, not immediately. I think some of this is related to
I don't think he's fully paying attention to me.
I felt like I wasn't doing too good of a job communicating to him. I felt like I was blocking him with my body rather than pushing, for instance. But OTOH I found that trying to drive him by focusing on his hip, his shoulder would want to fall in. So I felt like I ended up trying to drive him by focusing on his barrel, which I guess worked out OK.
Turning. This is where I really need to work on my body language. I want him to turn in with his head facing me, not with his butt facing me. We can work on that.
Some things that went well:

Honestly, overall, for our first time, I think in general it went really well.
I liked how he would do a downward transition off body language.
We were only in there for maybe 20 minutes, of which we were only working probably half the time, and most of that was at a walk. I wanted it to be really low-key and easy, and I was mostly just after seeing what he could do and what he'd offer.

I desensitized him to the lunge whip before we started, but I found that I had to do it again after we stopped. I actually ended up having to resort to an old trick of mine, which is to approach him with it backwards. I mean, I face away from him and slowly walk backwards to him. I actually bumped into his nose doing this LOL.

One thing that I thought was cool was on the way to the round pen he was kind of looky and nervous, but on the way back he was a lot more relaxed. Bear in mind he hardly worked enough to tire himself out. So something happened in there that was good for him.











ETA I'm glad I groomed him before we did this. He looks good! Shiny!

*Today's highlight: for our first working session in the round pen, I thought things went really well. Obviously there is lots of room for improvement here, mostly on my part.*


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I commented in more detail on your other thread. One thing about round pen work. My opinion is that you should either be actively doing something with the horse (even if that is asking them to face you and stand still), or you should allow them to be free and on their own in the round pen. If you go in to the round pen, you should either completely ignore them and do what you need to do, OR, be actively asking for , and getting, some kind of change from them. If you ask a bit, then you just amble where you are now letting them kind of 'blah' around, then you are 'on', then 'off'. it's OK IF you are very clear when you are ON and when you are OFF. The tendency is to spend too much time in a 'gray' area. This encourages a horse to tune you out. Not a good thing to encourage.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

tinyliny said:


> The tendency is to spend too much time in a 'gray' area. This encourages a horse to tune you out. Not a good thing to encourage.


Thank you! That is super helpful! I definitely want to work on getting him to pay better attention to me.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t usually do a lot of walking in a round pen until I’m done working a horse in there. To be honest I rarely do any round pen work anymore, because we don’t have one at the house. So, when I am in need of using one I go and use my parents. It definitely makes life easier.

When I do go into a roundpen I might start off having them trot a few circles and do some rollbacks. I always want the horse to change direction towards me, and get after them if they turn the other way. However, I have pretty good body control before entering it. Then I make them lope a few circles each direction with occasional rollbacks. If they are thinking and doing what I ask, then I might only do a couple. Yet, I don’t use it unless I’m having some sort of issue with a colt anymore, so usually they aren’t behaving really well from the get go.

I use a flag, but in dad’s roundpen there is a selection of things to use in the middle. If I have a horse cutting in, I might use two things at once. My flag and a prod. Now, I don’t hit them with the prod, I merely use it as an extension of my arm. It’s for that shoulder if they are cutting in, and I’ve never had anything not respond to the idea of it being there.

When I finish in the round pen, and I feel the horse is attentive and trying, I then might do a little walking each direction. I also work on my other groundwork exercises and desensitize. Then I usually back them a quarter of a circle or so.

I guess I saw what @tinyliny was saying in that you didn’t seem clear. Now, that is okay if the horse minds the tiniest cue and I’m not seeing it, because it is hard to see in a video, but it was his first time. I’m not sure I understood the rest of what Tiny meant however. I put a cue out there, like lope, and then I stand still. If the horse stops doing what I asked I cue again. I expect him to be responsible for continuing what I asked.

Yet, the first time in there usually looks different for me. Like I said, I have the body control outside of that corral. Usually, the first time I put a horse in and ask them to move out they really move out for a minute before they come to start paying attention. Rowan seems more chill than that. If someone has worked with him in the round corral prior, they did a good job of it, because he’s not panicked. If they did not work him in there prior, he did a really good job of staying mellow.

I think you will end up doing excellent!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

On a side note, I’m with your daughter in believing this will be a foster fail. Lol. You seem to really like him! I know you will end up moving, but I think you’ll find a way to keep him.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Knave said:


> I don’t usually do a lot of walking in a round pen until I’m done working a horse in there. To be honest I rarely do any round pen work anymore, because we don’t have one at the house. So, when I am in need of using one I go and use my parents. It definitely makes life easier.
> 
> When I do go into a roundpen I might start off having them trot a few circles and do some rollbacks. I always want the horse to change direction towards me, and get after them if they turn the other way. However, I have pretty good body control before entering it. Then I make them lope a few circles each direction with occasional rollbacks. If they are thinking and doing what I ask, then I might only do a couple. Yet, I don’t use it unless I’m having some sort of issue with a colt anymore, so usually they aren’t behaving really well from the get go.
> 
> ...



I go back and read what I wrote and heck if it doesn't sound like gobbledygook! Can't you just read my mind!!!?? it would make things a lot easier!


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## baysfordays (Oct 14, 2021)

just wanted to say that I thought he looks so much better weight wise.. maybe this is just me, but it looks like he’s definitely gained a few pounds!
Ive been watching and reading this journal, just haven’t said anything. Hope your progress continues to go good!!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 28*

Well it's a work day so I didn't spend so much time out there.

It was our first real cold front of the fall. I was bringing Rowan from his stall (he gets fed there) to his paddock. The horses in the neighboring paddock (his buddies) started cantering around so he wanted to canter also. He sort of sprung out from his back legs like he wanted to take off, but when he hit the end of the lead rope he stopped. Which was better than last time.

However, I couldn't get him into his paddock. He got stuck at the gate, where it's hard to use that "turn the head" trick. And then they started cantering again and he jumped back and knocked the gate into the old gate that's still leaning up against something over there and that didn't help either. Eventually the groom came and "shooooshed" his back end and he got moving. I'm not sure sure I feel about that. On the one hand, I don't want Rowan to learn that he can just stop, so it's good that someone came and made him move. On the other hand, I need to be able to move him myself. I think part of what I learned from this is that maybe he doesn't have as good of a feel being led as I thought.

He was kind of unhappy in his paddock. His friends all got brought in to eat so he couldn't see anyone. Then someone started cantering in the arena next to him, and he got kind of worked up again. I put Teddy in there with him, so he'd have an example of someone staying chill while people are cantering around nearby, but by that time the people had left the arena so it was kind of pointless. The barn owner doesn't like it that he does this, and I get it, but I think it's helpful for him to be in there for this, because eventually he's going to realize that just because someone is cantering over there doesn't mean he has to canter over here. He just has to realize that.

Speaking of Teddy, I don't feel too bad about my own inconsistent personal space limits toward Rowan because Teddy treats him the same way. Basically he will let Rowan in if Rowan comes nicely, but after a while Rowan does something that annoys him, or Teddy just realizes that he's in his space, and he chases him out. I know ideally we want to be consistent with our horses, and I think I'm working toward that with Rowan, but Teddy is a horse that is the boss of most horses but all the other horses like him because he's nice about it, so if I'm basically doing the same thing he's doing, is that really so bad? Well, like I said, we're working on it.

Today I was super conscious about my space when I was around him. I stood next to him while he was eating for a while, and I moved him over a couple of times so that I could "eat the hay" where he had been. Also, I'm sure this is a terrible idea, but when he gets his head close to me and then slings it around for some reason, I either catch him with my knuckle in a soft spot or I act like I'm going to head butt him (the head butt part being the bad idea). Not quite, but if he moves his head suddenly into my space then I move my head suddenly into his space. And he backs off. The problem is that I, like Teddy, let him come close if he's nice about it. But then he's like "Ooh what's that" and thinks he can run into my head. This just has to stop, one way or another. I do feel like we're slowly getting better with it.

I watched a Mark Rashid video where he talks about doing things with your horse rather than to them. I think this was the exact same phrase I used a few days ago, so I was excited to watch the video. It was about desensitizing, and his thing was, rather than just approach the horse with the object and rub it all over them, ask _them_ to approach _it_. So he got a feed bag and tied it to a lead rope and dragged it around and got the horse to eventually come up and investigate it. He also said that he thinks curiosity is the opposite of fear in horses, so better to get them curious than afraid.

I mean, this is typically where I start with desensitizing anyone to anything -- ask them to approach it on their own. That just makes sense to me. But he spent the whole video dragging this thing around.

So I tried this with Rowan, with an old torn up saddle pad and some baling twine instead of what Mark Rashid did. I also put some alfalfa pellets on it as a reward. He was all for it. If curiosity and fear are opposites, then he must be the most low-fear horse in the world. Once he saw me dragging that thing around (and dragging it around him) he just had to investigate. I did it with Pony, too, but he was halfway between concerned and curious, albeit moving quickly toward curious. I thought Pony was extremely curious, and maybe he is, but Rowan has him beat by a mile.

It's interesting, though. I do think Rowan has some anxiety. But I don't think he has a lot of fear. I would have thought that these were linked more closely, but they don't seem to be in him.

I'm interested to keep learning more about him.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I like your comments about fear and curiosity. My daughters mare has very little fear and is really curious. In my expierence horses like this can be pushed too hard by trainers and then they get anxious and bad habits form. We always encourage the curiosity with Sawyer and I love to read that you are doing the same with Rowan


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Windy is curious. She wants to examine every thing that worries her. After she touches it with her nose, sometimes she shoves it. On the other hand, when riding her, she is constantly swinging her head to the left and right. What's that? What's THAT? What's that over there? It is kind of annoying until you get used to it.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

knightrider said:


> Windy is curious. She wants to examine every thing that worries her. After she touches it with her nose, sometimes she shoves it. On the other hand, when riding her, she is constantly swinging her head to the left and right. What's that? What's THAT? What's that over there? It is kind of annoying until you get used to it.


That is 100% Rowan right now! He's so looky that it really makes me nervous. But I've only seen him spook at something once -- today, when the weather was frisky. 

Is Windy pretty non-spooky? I guess I'm just used to Pony, for whom being really looky is often a prelude to being spooky (less so as time has gone by, but it still makes me nervous). And Teddy is just the opposite -- not looky and not spooky (but holds it in and can explode, but again not really any more).


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Queen is watchy of things. She notices every single change, or anything happening in her visual radius. I’m always trying to convince her not to spy on the neighbors. Is she curious? I guess so. She likes to touch things with her hoof. That bugs me sometimes. Lol. I’ve never seen a handsy horse before. She touches everything.

She doesn’t seem spooky though. I guess I do the same thing in thinking watchy preludes spooky, but she’s only spooked on rare occasions. I expect her to blow up when she freezes and watches something. I’m starting to trust that she just needs to study things for a bit. She seems extremely intelligent.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Windy is not spooky. She is just super looky.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

ACinATX said:


> He was kind of unhappy in his paddock. His friends all got brought in to eat so he couldn't see anyone. Then someone started cantering in the arena next to him, and he got kind of worked up again. I put Teddy in there with him, so he'd have an example of someone staying chill while people are cantering around nearby, but by that time the people had left the arena so it was kind of pointless. The barn owner doesn't like it that he does this, and I get it, but I think it's helpful for him to be in there for this, because eventually he's going to realize that just because someone is cantering over there doesn't mean he has to canter over here. He just has to realize that.


My old BO and trainer posted something recently on her page that may be a good idea to try with him. When she gets new horses in for training or to prepare for her trail riding string, they are kept in a round pen with shelter alone. Oftentimes, many of these horses take to pacing on a certain side nearby the other horses for the reason why Rowan is probably moving around and getting worked up. What she does is puts obstacles in the horses usually pacing area - raised ground poles tires, etc. to make the horses think about where they are putting their feet and what they are actually doing.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

ClearDonkey said:


> What she does is puts obstacles in the horses usually pacing area - raised ground poles tires, etc. to make the horses think about where they are putting their feet and what they are actually doing.


I guess at some point they have to start paying attention, right? This reminds me of when I was walking him over ground poles in the arena. When he was paying attention to something else, he always tripped over them. I'm not sure if he actually learned to pay attention from that, but maybe we didn't do it enough. It might also be that he doesn't really mind tripping over stuff. I hope that's not the case. I feel like he might make a good trail horse with the right training, but not if he is always looking everywhere and tripping on stuff that's right in front of him.

Maybe I will put one or two obstacles in his paddock.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I'm at a conference this week and couldn't get out there yesterday and won't today either, but I made this screenshot from one of the videos because I really thought it showed us communicating effectively. Most of the round pen work was sub-par (for which I am almost entirely to blame), but this turn was really nice. He paid attention to me, I communicated clearly, and he did what I asked.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

yes That shows him 'thinking around the corner', looking at you with curiosity and asking for permission to come in. Next , if you wish him to step toward you, I would want to see your body relax into a nuetral stance to allow him to carry through that thought he has . If you allow him to carry through the thought to come to you,, politely, he will feel better about it. If you need to back up to draw him, try to do as little as necessary. backing up is like 'pulling' him in ,, to a vacuum, and while it works, it is not as lasting since the horse is not acting fully on his own volition, but rather being literally 'sucked' forward . Let him ponder what to do, and if you need to, you can back up a bit, or turn your body sideways.

If you want him to stand there and just look at you, to stay out on the circle, ( and that might have been your objective), then you stand there and if he thinks he wants to come in, you just use a bit of a 'firm' feel to your body postion to indicate NO, that you want him to NOT step toward you.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 31*

It was a half day at my conference so I went to see them afterwards. I really didn't do much -- it was hotter than I expected and then I got a bad foot cramp that made walking unpleasant. 

I think he was itchy, and we experimented with communicating that politely, but unfortunately we failed. He just wants to push into me and that's not OK. I tried stepping back and stopping scratching him, but that didn't help at all -- he just followed me. I could push him away fine, but neither one of us really liked that. Ultimately I'm not even 100% sure he wanted to be itched. I did find one spot he seemed to like, but after that I don't know. Maybe he just wanted to be right up next to me -- that's entirely possible and very much in character.

I am back to working on feet. I can't really hold his feet if he tries to snatch them, due to my finger (four more weeks in this splint) so all I'm doing is picking them up (fronts) and putting them down before he gets the idea of trying to take them away. That's only a few seconds.

Bill Dorrance had some discussion about picking up feet with a rope, and the way he explained it, and the pictures, made a lot of sense. So I used the rope to pick up Rowan's back feet, since I don't want to hold on to them if he kicks (finger again). He actually picked them up really nicely with the rope. So that might be the way to go. I also went over there myself with my hands and cued him to just pick them up, letting him put them back down immediately, and he did that fine with no kicking out.

The bodyworker is coming to look at him tomorrow. She said the first session with a new horse she might not do much actual work. I'm really interested in what she finds, though. I still feel like his hind end has some problems -- he never squares up back there and he's fidgety with those feet -- and I hope she can identify them. I will also show her his scar and have her show me how to do lateral flexion with him. Or I will have her show me on Pony and then I'll do it on Rowan.

*Highlight of the day: using the rope to pick up his back feet was actually super easy and he responded really well to it.*


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I really like using a rope myself. It doesn’t tend to take much either.

Queen likes to be itched. She politely sidepasses way too close, like she thinks I can hold her chest in my lap. It makes me laugh. She’s not pushy in any other way by any means, so it’s not something I find necessary to correct. Also she is so slow and careful, excepting the leaning her weight. Lol. Sometimes I’m convinced she’d love to be a lap dog I could pick up and carry around. Maybe she figures she totes me, and fair is only fair.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I want him to be like Moonshine. She also sidepasses over and manages to convey that she wants to be itched (she kind of shoves the itchy part at you), but without running you over.

Well not like her in other ways, but in that way.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 32*

The bodyworker came out today. It went really well. In the sense of, I learned a lot.

She did some groundwork with him and then with the two of us and said in her opinion she would call him just barely halter broke. So she told me I could just stop thinking about getting beautiful lateral flexion a the poll that was just right, and ditto for him stepping over properly in the back. No, he just needs to learn to yield to pressure consistently, on every part of his body. Which is great, because I think that's something I can do.

She also recommended that for now I just not let him into my space at all, since he has a tendency to start to creep closer once he's there. And she recommended that I lead him a different way. I didn't really like that suggestion, but she had me try it and I do think it worked better, so I'll go with it at least for now. One thing that's going to be hard for me is to really be 100% focused on what I'm doing when I lead him. Like, do not ever let him into my space, and make him stay focused on me.

He was fidgety getting the bodywork done, which didn't surprise me. She said he was pretty unbalanced. She thought it went pretty well at the end. He did have one big release. She said see how he feels over the weekend and then we'll talk about how to move forward. She didn't think that scar on his back leg was a big deal though.

After she left, I did some chores. After discussing leading Rowan with her, I thought I'd watch the groom bring him in. I was very surprised to see that he worked on picking up all of Rowan's feet first. I don't know how I feel about that. I thought he did a good job. He was maybe a bit more forceful than I would be, but not at all unreasonable, and Rowan didn't seem to mind. Rowan did not kick out that I could see. And like I've mentioned I can't really do this right now, but it's something that needs to happen. But.... I didn't ask him to, and it makes me wonder what else he's doing with him when I'm not around. Erg.

Oh, I've got a trainer coming to work with us on groundwork. I've worked with this lady before, and while she's a bit firmer than I would be, she is very fair and always asks whether the horse understands what you're asking, and is it capable of doing it. She never over-faced me or my horses when I worked with her before. And she starts all of her own horses and loves groundwork. I would have asked her to come out earlier, but she has to drive a ways to get here and has told me in the past that she won't come out for fewer than three horses. I sent her Rowan's first picture when I emailed her in an attempt to sob story her into coming, and I guess it worked LOL.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

One more thing. The bodyworker really preached at me that I need to be super consistent with him right now because he's young and I'm building his foundation. Guys, she brought me over to her side. I was being inconsistent in my consistency, and she really felt like I was letting him be too pushy. She said it's better to set firm limits now. Better for him now and better for him in the future. I had been kind of letting him get away with things, but she converted me. For his sake, I will do better.

She thinks he's very nice and very willing, but he just needs firmness and clarity right now.

FWIW she also thought that being out with the other horses will help him understand limits, since they will be a lot more clear and forceful than I am. Like I've said, he does sort of creep in on them too, but eventually they push him away.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 33*

One thing the body worker impressed on me is that she thinks it's better to do something for a short amount of time and do it well and with focus, rather than spending a lot of time on it.

That was good because even though it is Saturday I didn't have a lot of time out there.

We worked on leading again, doing it the way she said. At first we had a few fights, but then we got to a really good place. I was really happy with that. Then we worked on yielding to pressure. I don't know why she said he barely yields to pressure. I can move his head down easily now, I moved it side to side, he backs pretty nicely, and he yields to pressure at the quarters. That part isn't perfect -- sometimes he wants to go backwards -- but holding the leadrope it was easy to emphasize that what I wanted was sideways movement and not backwards. He did it all really well. IMO. I guess I'll show the trainer when she comes and see what she thinks.

I also worked on "head down" from the right side. Not surprisingly, he had no idea at first what I wanted. But he picked it up pretty quickly. We did feet and he did well with that. He picked up that back leg and even held it up himself for a few seconds. This was from me bending over and tapping him with my finger, not using the rope. I still can't hold it, though. At least, I don't want to try. I don't want to give him the chance to kick if I'm not going to be able to hold onto him. I don't want to teach him that kicking is an "out."

ETA: I forgot to mention I talked to the trainer today -- she called me to work out a time. And she mentioned how skinny Rowan was in the picture I sent. She was like, "He's not still that skinny is he?" I assured her he's not, although he's still skinny. She said "I felt terrible when I saw that picture" and I thought to myself "heh heh heh" another person I've manipulated by showing them his skinny picture. I hope that's not TOO evil. I really do like her and really wanted her to come out, but I knew she didn't usually do it for just one horse, so I was trying to use whatever I could to get her out. Yes, I am not above using Rowan's skinny picture to my own advantage.

Oh I also forgot to mention that I measured him for a bit, ha ha. He was feeling super mouthy today so I gave him the lead rope and then thought "what the heck" and encouraged him to take it and put it where a bit would go. I think he'll want a five-inch size. I'm going to try to get him to take one of Pony's rubber bits to see (I have multiples of them as they get chewed). I'm not going to force it, but I'll see if he'll take it and then try to have my daughter take a picture.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

A person can practice getting a horse to give to lateral and vertical halter pressure when putting on the halter, and when taking it off.

When I go to get Leo out of the field, he comes, he gets a treat, I pet his neck and easy put the rope halter end up and get it with right hand. I do NOT just whip it up onto his nose . I slow and softly ask with a little pressure of the halter on the side of his face ( near his jaw/neck) to see if he can tip his head toward me real nice like. not swing it, not lean in resistance. Just move it over toward me so his nose is tipped toward me.

this will often cause him to lower his own head (which helps for such a big horse to be haltered), and I lower the halter and slip it over. I try not to ever rush, and I don't let him 'dive' into the halter either. some would say that's a good thing, but that is still HIM taking over. Maybe I'm not ready for the halter to go on. Maybe I'd like him to pause, and wait for me to lift it up.

Same goes with taking off the halter; he cannot lift his head out of the halter and whirl away. He is asked to lower his head, and tip it toward me. I undo the not, but keep ahold of the halter , wiht my arm over his neck. I take a sec to tip his head toward me, pause a sec, praise him and then lower the halter. I may then give him a 'goodbye' treat. The I turn and leave him. I leave him. I do not just stand there until he decides I am not worth paying attention to and leaves me. I leave him, to be a horse on his own terms.

I am down seeing if I can do up and undo the halter from time to time from his right side. He is a bit defensive of his right side. He wants to keep me in his left eye as much as possible.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 32*

I spent most of my Rowan time mucking his paddock. But we did do some things.

Worked on leading again -- it's going even better. I think he just needed to understand what's being asked of him now. I got his head down from the right side first try, and he's fine from the left. Maybe it's time to start asking for more there. Yielding the hindquarters is still a work in progress but we got a couple of good ones.

We did a lot of feet work today and that went really well. He seemed to be really thinking about how to hold himself.

I put the bit in him. He was getting mouthy again when I was backing him up, so I thought, let's just stick THAT in there. It went very well I think. I just held it there without forcing it, and eventually he took it. And then eventually he took it and put it where it's supposed to go. I went and got my daughter and tried again so she could take some pictures so I could see if it fits (I thought it did) but the pictures weren't the best. I'll post a couple anyways.

I took a few pictures for the purpose of tracking his weight, also. It's funny how the light can make such a difference -- he's still quite skinny on one side, but on the other side he looks pretty good.

*Highlight: I got the bit in his mouth. It's a straight rubber bit so maybe it wasn't too scary. He didn't seem to mind too much.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 34*

I had planned on going out Monday evening, and arranged my schedule to make this possible, but when it got to be time I just didn't feel like it. I thought, I could go out there even though I don't want to and maybe resent them for it, or just stay home and work, get some extra hours logged, and go out some other time. So I didn't go.

Today was mostly a "greatest hits" session:

yield to pressure -- still definitely a work in progress in the hind end on both sides
yield to backwards pressure on the halter to go back -- getting better -- I'm using my vocal cue and also touching his chest to bridge into this, as he knows both of those cues
leading -- still doing OK, maybe getting a little better. I did do better turns, at least to the left, by stopping and asking him to keep going (with pressure from the end of the lead rope) on around me. This will bridge into lunging.
hooves -- I think he does better when I have him in the halter and lead rope, so moving forward we may just always do it that way. I did get comfortable enough to hold onto his front feet for a certain amount of times, despite my finger. Back legs picked up with rope, but also by touching his fetlock. With the touching, I'm just asking him to pick them up and put them down, nothing more
bit -- he got mouthy again when backing up and wanted to eat his lead rope, so I bitted him instead. Twice. He's great with it.
I did add touching him all over his face and moving around to the base of his ears. He wasn't thrilled about the ears, but I only spent a fraction of a second there so he didn't actually move away. I mentioned before he can be a bit headshy. He needs to get a lot more comfortable with things going on around his head.

The trainer / instructor is coming out tomorrow. I'm excited to see what she has to say and what she leaves us to work on.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 35*

We did a lot of useful things today, but interestingly the thing that has really stuck with me was her reaction to my idea that maybe someone at my barn could adopt Rowan. She asked if I'd be happy with that, given the way people at my barn treat horses. I said that not everyone at my barn treats their horses badly. Then she went further and said, "What if that person were riding Rowan in a lesson with [barn owner] and [barn owner] started yelling at them to get bigger, louder, punish him, make him regret doing that, etc." Yes my barn owner is like that. And I thought about that and thought, I couldn't handle it. 

She also made the point that she doesn't seem him as a hunter jumper or a dressage horse, based on his build and the way he looks (she said horses that look like him would get penalized just for their looks in those spots, regardless of ability). We talked about that and hit on him being a trail horse, or doing trail classes, or working equitation. Also looking at him and the way he was built, and seeing him trot in the roundpen, she thinks he looks like a standardbred and could maybe pull a cart. He does have a really big, move-y trot. I'll have to get a video of it.

Speaking of the roundpen, she also found the weeds in there really annoying. Regardless, we got some good work done. I was kind of secretly pleased that he seemed a lot more relaxed when I was working him than when she was. We worked on controlling gait and direction, but she also walked me through getting him to change direction by turning his head in rather than his butt. She just had me break it down into steps: (1) get him stopped and looking at me, (2) push out (not physically, but with body language) on the shoulder that's currently on the outside but that you want to be on the inside. Doing it in two completely separate steps with a stop in between was super helpful. Both of us learned from that.

Aside from that, we did a different style of leading. She wanted me to lead him from the front but make him keep well behind me. If he creeped up, I was to turn and back him up. Ditto if we stopped and he started creeping in on me -- back him up. She also wanted me to back him with the lead rope rather than pushing him in his chest. He responded pretty well to that. But I have a hard time telling when, when I'm walking him, he's creeping up on me. Well, except that it turns out he's always creeping up on me. I think I'm going to focus on doing it the way the bodyworker suggested, because at least that way I can see him.

I was surprised that this trainer is doing clicker training now. I was kind of dubious because Rowan is so mouthy, but we gave it a try and it actually worked pretty well. She wants me to reinforce with him taking treats politely and not mugging. She also wanted me to use this method with all of his body movement in hand work. I will try that. I said before that not being able to give him treats was really handicapping me, and it seems that if I'm strict about using the bridging signal he doesn't get pushy. It's also an easy way to get him to engage.

Speaking of which, we worked with him on and off for a little over two hours, and he stayed with us mentally the whole time. Was it the treats? Was it that we changed activities fairly frequently? Whatever it was, I'm not going to make excuses and say he has a short attention span any more.

What she left us with for homework was to work on everything we worked on today. One additional thing I can add is taking him to the mounting block and having him stand. Which reminds me he did a whole lot better standing still today. I think we were asking him to do things that mostly he could do but not always, and it was enough to keep him mentally engaged without stressing him too much. And then when he got to just stand still, it was really a reward.

One other thing we noticed is that he does chew on the lead rope a lot more when he's stressed, like when he's being asked to do something he's not quite sure about. She thought I should just let him, as it's self-soothing. I showed her how I had slipped the bit in him when he was mouthy like that and she really liked that.

So, it went well. Mostly it means that for the next few weeks at least I won't be doing much that's new, just working on getting really solid with what we're doing now. She said to get in touch with her in a week or two and let her know how we're doing, and we'll go from there.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 36*

I went out today but it was almost entirely chores. Waters were empty or nearly so, hay had not been thrown, manure had not been picked.

I did work on leading him the way I want (the way the bodyworker showed me) and that went pretty well. I led him from his paddock to the large pasture where he spends the nights. I was happy with him. I led him in, turned him around (I forgot if I mentioned this before, but I find that with turning on the forehand he's a lot more responsive when I ask when I have a clear reason, and turning around to face me after we've gone through a gate is certainly one of them). I took off his halter while he stood politely. Then I patted him on the shoulder and said "OK" which is my signal that I'm done with what we were doing. He stood for a few seconds and then walked off. Very polite.

I wanted to get a video of him coming when I called, but as soon as he saw me he came, so the video isn't very good. I mean, in terms of showing him coming when called. I'll have to get sneakier if I want to do that.

I did hang out with him in the pasture a bit, but we had problems with personal space again. He's even politer about it than he was, but he still creeps up sometimes. I had to back him off a couple of times.

The trainer sent me an email with my homework, which I very much appreciate. I'm putting it here so I don't forget.

1) polite position ( head straight ahead no begging)
2) leading with long lead rope and keeping distance, backing up if he continues toward you after you stop.
3) round pen and he stays engaged with you, especially face to you and halt on command. 
4) hind hoof pick up and click while hoof is off the ground, increase duration gradually. 
5) caress the ears, using counter conditioning until he likes them touched. 
6) back up with light touch from the halter, avoid pushing on chest.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I went to the horse show that my rescue org puts on today. I ended up spending the whole day out there. I volunteered for a couple of shifts and then also watched some of the horses. I was out there for seven hours but I really should have gotten there earlier, there was just so much to see.

The really nice thing was seeing all the horses get adopted. I mean, not all of them, but so many! I walked down the aisles and there were so many empty stalls (horse taken) and so many signs in front of still-filled stalls saying the horse had been adopted. It's really wonderful how many horses that were abandoned, neglected, mistreated, or unwanted found new homes through this organization.

What wasn't wonderful was ... amateur or professional, mounted or in hand, how much heavy-handed horsemanship there was. Not to mention horses that seemed really unhappy about the way they were being ridden. I had kind of hoped that maybe I'd see a trainer ride a horse in a really nice way and maybe get them to come out and work with me (although I already have that other lady that I like; I just thought I'd see if there was anyone else). But no.

And it seemed like what the trainers, in particular, were going for was what I consider bells and whistles. Like, flying lead changes, cantering in tiny circles, sudden stops, sidepassing over barrels, having a rider in costume stand on them. That stuff seemed to get the most applause. I don't know if I'm just different, but I'd rather see a horse that was really light and responsive and willing and seemed to enjoy what it was doing, even if it couldn't do any fancy moves. It did make me wonder if maybe this is not the right venue to showcase what Rowan can do, once he's trained up. Because when I train him I'm going to focus on what's important to me. And it brought it home to me how important those attributes are, at least to me.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I've been reading a book by Ray Hunt, "Think Harmony With Horses," and it is a simple little book, but I like the small bits of wisdom here and there. I think it's great you're being discerning about heavy handed riders and trainers. It reminded me of how Hunt talks about the horse following a feel, and I've been working on that with my riding. Rather than having force, it's really great to get the horse responding to just an idea from you, the way you look and turn your body around a circle and the lightest touch of the rein.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thanks @gottatrot I will check that book out!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I've been reading but shush my mouth....

A few things noticed....
Rowan is not needing as much weight as you think.... Do not take offense but your horses are all fat and overweight, do not do this to Rowan. It is not healthy for him & since you do not know what is truly with that hock...don't push it.
You presented... the 1st was posted 9/17 and the second 10/2















... his flanks are nearly flat, no longer concave is a very good indicator of he is nearly done needing to gain.
No horse is supposed to be fat layered over their entire ribcage _you can not see a outline of them_ when they breathe or turn their body, arcing it away from you as many of your "he looks so different" portray. If you put him to that weight, then he _has_ pushed past optimum and heading toward fat. Cover his ribs so _not_ seen if he arcs his body...
Today, sadly it is far more common to see fat and obese than optimum weight the heart and lungs, the joints and connective tissues are not over-stressing in use.
Rowan now needs to start building muscle and yes that takes energy now converting to muscle, not just laying fat on and into the body...
To build the muscle is where it takes protein and all the supporting amino acids and goodies of vitamin & minerals.
This is where he needs to have feed or supplements to assist him in his muscle development. And he needs daily work which means you now are at the barn to work with him and give him mental and physical exercises to complete...
Rowan has to go to school just like a child....to learn, to expand his education.

You also mentioned concern when you saw the groom handle his feet and wondering what else they do with Rowan you are not aware of.....
They _not_ take his guff like you do....they _expect_ him to respond and act a certain way, respect them _and the horse does it. _ You _are_ a pushover, you admit it.
You couldn't get Rowan in his paddock again...the groom walked up and he moved forward spoke volumes...
Your trainer you have working with you...*keep at it *cause till _you_ get a confident manner its not going to go pretty is my opinion. She working _with_ you, teaching you _is_ giving you confidence you truly need working with not only Rowan but all your horses and you have much yet to learn.. She is teaching you how to use your body language and engage your mind in a way no one has at your present facility... Your trainers words spoke volumes when you discussed thinking to have a boarder adopt Rowan....😐

As for that bit....imo it _is_ to small.
His lips are smushed to close to the rings that spin you could catch the flesh of his lip and sore it.
My other thought is...for a horse who knows so little about _moving away from pressure_ why have you not considered a D-ring or even a full-cheek to help teach the feel pressure and move away from it when you start the soon to be education of his face and mouth... and the mouthpiece to me is to thick. This is something important to discuss with that trainer and _ask for her input on what to use and does she have one you can try before you buy.._
Solid rubber bits _are_ thick...could also be a reason why Pony chews his bit so much is he is not as comfortable carrying it as you think, but he gives to the pressure & wanting to please so not complaining and wears it.


























Do some investigating looking online at the appearance differences in a mullen mouth with eggbutt rings or d-rings or full-cheek or a comfort snaffle with copper rollers that is ergonomically shaped to a horses mouth....this bit is very similar to what is referred to as a Billy Allen mouth.... take note of the diameter of the barrel, that is the actual part that goes in the mouth. It matters, a lot!
I personally _*do not*_ like O-ring bits for the heightened pinch factor of the lips that happens to often....for a very well trained horse who not mouth the bit but carry it quietly is very different than the animal who is chewing....
And with that...make sure Rowan is not mouthy because he has caps to lose or need removing...he is that age and it goes together of mouthy and need to chew on a younger horse.

With that...you have made good progress and Rowan is figuring you and your wants out admirably.
The tasks now though are going to get harder since you are now approaching a time of truly teaching and training him needs to take place....
I myself am _not_ a trainer and don't claim to be one, don't want to be one.
Can I do it, probably....but I don't want to. Do I know how, for some of it...yup and have done it.
But you need a bigger bag of tricks to use than bare basics and the tutelage of someone like this trainer person you have now coming in....she is going to be your godsend in resources it seems.
I have a feeling Rowan is not going to be a horse to intimidate, he will come back at you in defiance not being bad, but because he is a puppy dog with no boundaries taught and minimal handling...and you are going to be challenged every step of his education now to begin.
Your homework from this trainer will make you a better equestrian when you understand how clear your instructions need to be given and how small nuances make a huge difference in message received.
Enjoy the new journey and challenges you will find, meet and conquer for Rowan and more importantly...for you!
🐴....


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

gottatrot said:


> Rather than having force, it's really great to get the horse responding to just an idea from you, the way you look and turn your body around a circle and the lightest touch of the rein.


This quote brought back a memory. When I was a teenager, I thought I had a magical connection with my horse. All I had to do was _think _what I wanted and he would do it. I thought I was unique. Now I know better. But I had an unhappy homelife, and it was probably good for me to think my horse and I were something special.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@horselovinguy it's interesting you said that about his weight. I took a bunch of pictures today because I'm thinking it might be time to back off some of the feed, but I want to see what everyone thinks.

We had a great day today. I'll post more after I make the post about his weight.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 38*

Today was a great day.

I continued with the "clicker" training (the click sound is going to be my tongue making a pop). We started on taking treats politely. I shaped his behavior to where I only rewarded when his head was facing straight ahead. The thing I really liked is that when his head got to the right place, I sort of sensed a tiny change about his posture that made me think that he knew he was doing the right thing and he expected to get a treat soon.

I backed him up a bit with halter pressure (hand below the halter pulling back). He understands the idea now and does it with the tiniest bit of pressure. He got rewarded for that. I worked on touching him all over his face, including getting crud out of his eyes. He doesn't like that but he tolerated it a bit better today.

The place where he doesn't yield to pressure so well is at the haunches. But I took him through a lot of gates today, and each time I had him do a proper turn once he got in. This REQUIRES that he move his haunches over. He understands doing that turn. So I touched him lightly at his haunches each time we did it, to reinforce that that's the signal. I didn't test him on it independently, though.

The leading went WONDERFULLY! I led him around quite a bit (stall to round pen; round pen to paddock; inside paddock) and also at liberty in the pasture. He understands that I want him walking next to me at a certain distance. He encroached slightly a couple of times and I held up my hand and he backed off. He is leading with a nice amount of slack in the lead rope. Again, softness and willingness.

One thing I didn't like was when I led him over the sharp gravel driveway he seemed a little tender footed. I mean, no one is even riding him now and he's only stalled to eat, so you'd think his hooves would be tougher. At least, I'd wish they would be.

Oh, we worked on a prelude to tying. What I did was, I looped the lead rope around a fencing panel and then increased the pressure on it until the slack was gone. Then I increased it some more (you know, just slightly). I wasn't sure how he'd do with the pressure when it wasn't clearly coming from me. He did try the tiniest pull back (like he raised his head a few inches kind of suddenly) but I kept the pressure the same, and he figured out if he walked toward the fence it stopped. We did this a few times and I rewarded him because I thought he did a really good job.

Finally, I got a tool from my husband and my daughter burned some more holes in the noseband of his halter so hopefully it fits him better now. It was super loose and sloppy before.

Us in the round pen. I got some great advice from the trainer, including this advice about Rowan being distracted by the pony: "Sure Rowan is a bit distracted, but YOU are being more distracted than he is, and it's making you lose focus, then of course Rowan also loses focus on you." You can't see it in this video, but that pony was around again today before this, and I just made Rowan work through it. Like, he wanted to stop and touch noses with the pony? No, sorry, we're doing something in here together, so you just keep going. And he did! Actually the other pony is right next to my daughter when she was taking the video, which is why the camera wobbles a bit -- he's being a pony and trying to eat the phone.

We were doing better inside turns before (I was going for inside turns, so the first two here are wrong) but this is OK. I wasn't using a lunge whip. I started with one and used it long enough to get his attention, but I found that I couldn't get inside turns when I had it, so I stopped. I felt like he was doing fine off just my arms here. FYI when I point at him it's because his shoulders are drifting in and I want him to move them back out. I like this video a lot better than the ones I posted last time:





Rowan coming when called, sort of. I don't think he entirely has put together me saying "ROWAN" with him coming, which is why I keep saying it here. Basically he hears me and then sees me and then comes. Rather than answering to his name yet. October 9, 2022

*Highlights from today: much more focused in the round pen, backed up from tiny pressure, gave to pressure when "tied."*


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> One thing I didn't like was when I led him over the sharp gravel driveway he seemed a little tender footed. I mean, no one is even riding him now and he's only stalled to eat, so you'd think his hooves would be tougher. At least, I'd wish they would be.
> 
> Finally, I got a tool from my husband and my daughter burned some more holes in the noseband of his halter so hopefully it fits him better now. It was super loose and sloppy before.


I'm back....here I go again but nothing truly bad....

Rowans hooves may have hardened but he still has a frog and nerve packed that is contacting those sharper rocks and gravel...
That makes my horse walk tentatively, sure does....that is why my horse when we go to certain trails wears boots to protect and cover those sensitive frogs.







... that halter..
Did you just make the noseband smaller or did you raise the halter on his face first?

His halter is to low actually on his face.. the below are where a properly fitting halter especially in a t/o situation should fit and where on the face.
Start by raising it to 2 fingers as shown below his cheekbone...
The next pictures from various angles all show correct placement and fitting for a safe and productive fit.

























If you raise that halter to a proper position your handling of Rowan will also take on a new dimension in communication.
Give it a try and see what happens....
🐴....


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

One of the handiest things a horse owner can have is a leather hole punch. You have four horses and as you buy more tack which can stretch, etc. you will need to adjust pieces. Something like this usually gets a lot of use in many barns






Imported Leather Punch | Dover Saddlery


The Imported Leather Punch is a leather hole punch that's ideal to have on hand.




www.doversaddlery.com


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 40*


Wow I am really liking using the treats. He is much more engaged and hasn't shown any more signs of his nervous habit (eating the lead rope). This is what we did today:

Worked on ears. Much, much better with them being touched.
Head down. No problems at all.
Moving his haunches over. This was the best. He will now move if I just put a finger on him, and even if I point at him.
Backing up softly from halter pressure. Wonderful.
"Tying" (like last time). Great.
We also worked on backing up with a vocal command. I think he's starting to get that. I obviously bridge it with a physical command he already knows.
Feet. Still not too great.
He's still encroaching a bit, but less and less.

We didn't do any leading today. I didn't have a ton of time and didn't really need to move him. I called him in and brought him to Moonshine's tiny paddock (which has a gate to his pasture) and just worked with him there. At one point I thought he was getting bored so I opened the gate so he could go back out to the pasture, and he did. But then he turned right back around and came back in LOL.

When I did finally turn him out to go, he hung around hopefully for about a minute and then trotted off to join his friends. I took a picture. That's him in the middle looking at me. This was a really beautiful sunset, but of course you can never get a good picture of a nice sunset.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 41*

On balance, I feel neutral about today. It was very hot (95) and it made me grumpy and not interested in doing much. This is what we did.

Worked on ears some more, went VERY well. I expanded it to touching him all over his face.
Moving over haunches. We didn't do any from just pointing, but I am starting to move my touch point over from his actual haunches to the back of his rib cage. For yielding to leg pressure the actual haunches is obviously no good.
Head down. Went pretty well. I also did it without him in the halter and that didn't go quite as well, but it was still good.
A bath! I've been hosing his feet, fetlocks, and up to his knees the last few times. He isn't crazy about it. It's not being sprayed that he minds, it's the drip drip feeling it creates. Well, it was hot today and I saw the groom hosing another horse, who was LOVING it, so I hosed Rowan's barrel, haunches, legs, and shoulders. He stepped away at first, then he was like, "Eh... OK." But afterwards the dripping down his sides was annoying him so I sweat scraped him. He may be gaining weight, but I can feel every rib under that sweat scraper, clearly, and without much padding in the way. He didn't mind, though.
So maybe you're thinking this sounds pretty good, why do I feel neutral? I will tell you. Early in our session he was being very respectful about my personal space. He even seemed to stop himself a couple of times, and a couple of times he seemed about to step into my space but then he reconsidered (it seemed to me). Which was great. But at the end he started acting in a way that I interpreted as itchy, so I let him in so I could itch him. But he wasn't itchy, and I wasn't focused, and he started nuzzling me. I backed him off, but I'm just mad that that was going well and then I made a mistake. I'm just not going to try to itch him any time in the near future, so hopefully this situation won't repeat itself. There's always tomorrow...


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Day 42

It's been six weeks since I got Rowan! I'm not going out there today so I will take the time to reflect.

Every day I go out there, I work on something. And our progress seems tiny or, sometimes, non-existent; and sometimes we seem to be going backwards. So I thought I'd take a look back at some things we've been working on, then and now:

Leading. He led nicely enough when I got him, except that sometimes he'd plant his feet and refuse to move and a lot of times he'd barge into me. At least in our last leading session (which was a decent distance), there was no planting and no barging, and just a tiny bit of creeping in that I negated with a raised hand.
Haltering. He was fine then, except sensitive with his ears, and he's fine now.
Ears. He was extremely sensitive with his ears before. The last two sessions, I not only touched them but held them in my hands and then ran my hands up them. He isn't crazy about it but doesn't mind too much now.
Yielding to pressure: backing. When I got him, he could back up when you poked your finger into his chest. Now be backs very nicely from tiny halter pressure and even me kind of leaning in his direction. If he creeps in, he will back up from pressure from the lead rope swinging.
Yielding to pressure: head down. He had no idea what I wanted the first time I asked. Now he does it very nicely.
Yielding to pressure: haunches. Exactly the same as head down.
Tying. I don't think he had ever been tied before. We're slowly working our way into that and so far he's been fine.
Fly spray. He really didn't like fly spray at first, but he came around pretty quickly and now he doesn't mind at all.
Personal space. He barged all over the place before. He's getting better. Right now, if I could just be clear and consistent, he'd have it. As it is, he's getting better.
Bitting! I don't think he'd ever had a bit in his mouth before. I introduced it in a way that made it really easy and relaxed for him. I intend to keep working on this, obviously, and also to try Teddy's bit on him.
Feet. He had no idea how to pick up his feet when I got him. He's really good about his fronts now. We haven't made a lot of progress with the backs.
Personality wise, he (don't tell Pony) might have the nicest personality of any of "my" horses. He has Pony's friendliness (but even moreso) and Moonshine's calmness, and Teddy's sweetness. He is very curious and really likes to be with me. He is a horse who wants the human to be the leader and to tell him what to do! I've heard that most horses are this way, but Pony and Moonshine certainly are not, so that's the majority of my horses that are not. He is very unspooky, at least so far. He's very willing and will try to understand what you want and do it. It's been six weeks and he's gained a lot of his weight back, and I feel like if he was going to turn nasty and/or spooky and/or stubborn it would have happened already. He is just a really nice horse.

I am not the most religious of people, but I prayed over adopting a horse three times. The first time was whether to apply to be a foster in the first place. The second time was related to a pair of horses they were sending out to foster that I thought might work for me (one of the two). After that time, the foster coordinator reached out to me about Rowan. This agency sends out a list every two weeks of horses available to foster, and he was never on that list. I just told her that I had a slight preference for a gelding, I would prefer a younger horse, and I really wanted a horse who was friendly. Oh, and that I preferred pony size. So she told me to take this one and I did! That was the third time I prayed over it. So, I feel like my prayers were really answered! He is a really easy horse to work with. I realize now that I could not have handled a difficult horse, not one that barely had any basics on it. I mean, I knew that before, but I REALLY know it now. I will never be a horse trainer. But maybe, with the right horse, and a little help, I can help them along.

Rowan then:









Rowan now:










Rowan then:










Rowan now:


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Wow! You've come a long way! I am very happy for you!


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## Morgan.taylor (Sep 1, 2020)

I agree his weight looks great I would not truly want any more weight I would focus on adding muscle.

As for the showcase, there is a place here who does chaos filled shows. We went to one and decided never again after my niece had two bad experiences in the classes. Having children running at each other on horse back who already lack the general respect on horseback to stand in a hoolah hoop just made me anxious. The open classes were not any better and I had to focus more on not having a child run in front and cut me off in a rail class than I could on actually riding my horse. So I agree if the setting doesn't feel the best to you then maybe choose a different place to showcase. However as long as it is safe, the things you described I wouldn't say are bells and whistles (aside from the standing on the horse in a costume that seems to just be a way to get the crowds attention). However flying lead changes, cantering in tiny circles, sudden stops, side-passing over barrels are all things used in classes such as ranch riding, trail, reining and when done properly are useful things for the horses to know. So I could see why they may show case those. 

Any way you do seem to be making progress and that is promising!


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## Danneq (Sep 18, 2020)

Oh wow, he really does look so much better!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

he looks good. and you are doing well!
He has a farrier 'date' soon? his left forefoot is so long!


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

I have to agree with @tinyliny about his feet. You’ve had him for 6 weeks and he looks great but his feet need to be corrected. I know you trim him a little bit at a time but a farrier that is kind and professional should be able to work with Rowan.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@tinyliny and @updownrider yes I was actually looking at his feet a couple of days ago and thinking I need to stop waffling around and get it done. If the only way I can get it done is to have the barn farrier, with his adversarial approach, do it under sedation, then I will. 

More about his feet below

*Day 43*

The main thing today was the bodyworker saw him again. First of all, she was amazed and how nicely he leads now and how respectful he is of personal space. So I'm glad it wasn't just me thinking he was getting better. She was shocked by how much better he is now. Moral of the story: I just need to be clear about my expectations and Rowan will comply (I mean, assuming he understands and is physically able, etc. etc.).

So. I have watched her work on my three horses, many times. I've watched her work on other horses. She has worked on me. But I have never seen as dramatic of a reaction as I did with Rowan today. Wow.

At first he was not quite sure how he felt about it, but I think he remembered liking her last time so he settled pretty quickly. She worked on him for about half an hour and he was fine. But after that half hour, he just ... wow. I don't mean in a bad way. Not at all. He just had maybe half a dozen major releases (long sighs, long episodes of licking and chewing, giant yawns) in addition to many minor releases. His eyes were almost entirely closed as he just lost himself in whatever he was feeling. Then his left back leg, the problem one, he started lifting it up and stretching it out behind him. He was doing something weird with his opposite front leg also. He then started moving his head around in circles, and his tail as well. Then he switched diagonals and started stretching out the other back leg. Then he went back to the first back leg. Then he drooped his head down almost to the ground.

At the end of it, he just yawned and yawned and yawned. So, I don't know what happened exactly but I do know that something big happened, a lot of something big. I'm interested to see how his hind end is tomorrow and the next few days.

So that was really neat.

The thing about Rowan's feet. I asked the groom to show me how he works with him, because I feel like he's better for the groom. But actually he wasn't THAT much better, not with the bad foot. One thing he seemed to prefer was when the groom one time held his foot by the toe. The groom offered to work with him. I said yes please. One interesting thing he speculated about... I don't know where he is from exactly but it's obviously Latin America. So he said that maybe someone had tried to get Rowan to do that thing that they do in Mexico where they "teach" the horse to pick up its back legs really high, repeatedly, by whipping them. I don't know. I had never thought about that. I suppose it's possible.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

yes, holding by the toe is a good way to keep the horse from snatching it away from youu. Just don't keep your hand there as the foot is set down on the ground.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 44*

The bodyworker told me not to do too much with him today that would work his muscles, so I didn't. First I made a rattly thing (some gravel in a water bottle) and shook it all around him. He just wanted to eat it. I showed him how it rattled whenever he messed with it with his mouth. Besides that he didn't care at all. I also took a lead rope out and swung it around. He was mostly OK with that. I think he was not sure if maybe I was trying to communicate something with him or not. I kept my body language really neutral, and he just stood there. I tried to swing it over his head but I wasn't confident that I could swing it and not hit him if his head went up, so I didn't.

I worked on bridling him. I took Teddy's old bridle and made it as long as possible and tried that, with Teddy's bit. I think it was too much new stuff at once. I should have started with just the bit. What I wanted to do was hold the headstall of the bridle over Rowan's poll and then slip the bit into his mouth. Not actually put the bridle entirely on. I think what he didn't like was that the bridle was on his eyes. So I stopped that and took the bridle apart and just put the new bit in his mouth. It was a little weird for him. He mouthed it a lot, in a sort of questioning way. Then I took the bit out and realized small parts of it had come off. It was a single-jointed metal snaffle with rubber covering, and the rubber had started coming off when Rowan bit it. I was so mad at myself. But I had no idea that could happen. I hadn't used that bit in probably two years and it's just been sitting, and I guess the rubber got crumbly and I didn't realize it. 

Overall, Rowan was a little standoffish (for him) today. Then when he did come up to me he crowded me a bit, so we had that discussion again. He's still better than he was. The kind of exciting thing is this picture I took of him today -- he's never stood square before. I think the bodywork session yesterday really must have helped him. Note that he's standing on a slight downward slope -- I don't think he's actually butt high. Also it's true what people said -- now that his neck is filling out, his head doesn't look so disproportionately large. Actually I think he looks quite nice.

I texted the farrier my bodyworker recommended (the one who got Covid and then hurt his back) and one that @Kriva recommended, so I'm hoping one of them might be able to come. If not, I'll get the barn farrier to do him, adversarial or not.

*Today's highlight: Rowan can stand square!*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 45*

I had a disheartening conversation with one of the people I had contact about trimming him. She said based on the pictures I sent it looks to her like one of his coffin bones has sunk, and she would want XRays before trimming him. So that's just sent me down a whole other rabbit hole of concern. What could cause a coffin bone to sink in a young, unridden, underweight horse?

She also said that most of the horses she sees she puts composite shoes on. Apparently she's moving away from trimming average horses and into problem horses. I mean problem-footed horses. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'd rather Rowan stay barefoot. But of course if he needs shoes then that's what we'll do.

Regardless, now I need to call the vet to get XRays. I can't just discount the possibility of serious foot problems now that someone has raised it. She only wanted from XRays, but I wonder if I could try to get his backs done also. I'm sure he will need to be sedated, though, if nothing else just to get him to stand square and hold still. 

We did some good stuff today, mostly stuff we'd already done, although I did rub a crinkly bag all over his face and also stand over him on the fence and crinkle it above his head, and while touching his ear, and while touching his back. This did get a reaction from him, although not much of one. He got over it pretty quickly.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Remember that people tend to see what they are looking for. She’s gone to treating horses who need corrective things, and she might be seeing something not there.

I personally would not jump to X-rays. The horse simply needs trimmed. He doesn’t show any sort of lameness, so that makes me even further from jumping to her conclusion. I disagree with the assessment.

Get him trimmed correctly, and then you can discuss such things. Don’t jump on that boat so easily.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Here’s how that post made me feel.

I was going to this dentist in town. We only get one dentist in our town, and that’s when we’re lucky. So, I was taking my kids and myself to him and even my husband went.

I had this weird feeling. Man we would have a ton of cavities every time. Always someone needed a couple root canals. It cost me all my savings every year. It didn’t make sense, but I’m not a dentist.

So, the last visit he said my oldest had seven cavities! We made a plan to fix them. I took hee to the orthodontist the next day because she was to get braces. He did the xrays, and then when he came in I said I was embarrassed because I knew she needed those cavities filled. He looked at me funny, and relooked at the X-rays. “Maybe they are really minimal? I’m not seeing anything that looks like a cavity.”

So, I get them fixed, and the dentist says “boy, these are so much worse than I thought they were.” I knew in that moment he had been scamming us, and to the detriment of my kid’s teeth. I am not confrontational, and so I didn’t say anything, just payed my 4k that was a struggle for me to come up with. He also said my husband needed a tooth pulled and a cap placed.

Husband didn’t do it. Now, he really did have a tooth ache. So, eventually, a couple years later, he says he has to see a dentist. We take him expecting that tooth to be pulled, and the different dentist didn’t even have to do a root canal! Really?! What a jerk. He ended up run out of town (none of my input. Again, I don’t like confrontation.).

Now, I’m not saying at all that’s what’s going on here, but I also don’t want to see your kid’s teeth drilled for no reason. When someone trusts a professional without any knowledge on a subject, then they can find themselves in a bad situation.


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## dustyk (Nov 14, 2020)

Knave said it, but I'm taking a quarter credit for thinking it!!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I agree 100% with @Knave. As you said yourself, a young, unridden, underweight horse. For a horse meeting that criteria, coffin bone rotation would be incredibly rare. So rare that I doubt most vets would think xrays necessary at all. Perhaps if a horse had raced, and there was a suspected coffin bone fracture or something like that. Otherwise the only reason I could think of for such a young horse to have xrays would be either a known congenital deformity, a serious injury, or else a very obese horse showing hoof tenderness.
ETA: one other reason for xrays might be a known serious illness, since that could potentially cause laminitis.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thank you guys. I have taken some deep breaths. I am going to think about this some more. I'm still thinking XRays can't hurt, I mean just to be on the safe side? I will also see what I can do about more current and better hoof pictures, but it might be a few days.

So since I took a few breaths, I will mention something we did today that was kind of funny. We worked in the round pen some more. Since his hooves are kind of long, we only worked at the walk (except for half a lap at the trot). Mostly we worked on inside turns. Rowan let me know today that apparently I always ask for him to turn in and turn around and the same spot, because every time he hit that spot he would look at me and if I so much as wiggled my nose he would come in and prepare to turn around. So I realize I need to mix it up some more LOL.

I didn't work on picking up his feet at all today. I don't know why. I'm kind of kicking myself about that. Tomorrow it's going to be wet and I don't want him thinking about snatching his hooves when they are muddy and with my finger broken. And we really need to work on them.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 46*

I don't feel too good. I smacked Rowan today. I've smacked all of my horses before, and I'm sure I'll smack them again. I mean, not often. Maybe once or twice a year? But thinking about today is kind of dovetailing with some reading I've done, and I'm wondering if I end up smacking them because I am asking them to do too much or there are holes in their training. So instead of smacking them, I should figure out what went wrong and fix that.

(I don't want to say that no one should ever smack a horse, or even that I should never smack a horse, I just am starting to think that maybe I am not always 100% fair with them)

Today we worked on picking up his feet. We got to where if I just bent over and kind of pointed, he'd pick up the fronts. So now what we're working on (with the fronts) is holding them up longer. That's going fine. I'm just increasing it by a couple of seconds each time. But having his feet worked with makes him ... nervous? edgy? He's a pretty calm horse so I don't know if that's the right word, but he doesn't like it too much. It makes him want to chew the lead rope, and it makes him want to leave. Or sometimes he just gets antsy and wants to circle me. I kind of don't understand it, because (again, at least the fronts) he's fine with picking them up, once I explained it to him. He doesn't display any distress or show signs of pain when picking them up. 

That makes me feel even worse about smacking him, because maybe I've just reinforced to him that there's something bad about having his feet picked up. Anyways, what happened was, one time when I picked up his foot, he kind of snatched it away and then started circling me really close, and he bumped me while I was still halfway bent over. Not hard, not even enough for me to have to take a step back, but it ticked me off because it's very unsafe, so I smacked him on the shoulder.

So what I'm thinking is, I need to teach him that it's not OK to circle me up close. If he needs to leave, I guess he can leave (assuming I don't have him on a lead rope). But circling like that isn't OK. Maybe I haven't been clear enough about that so he thinks that it is OK. In other words, I'm wondering if I'm smacking him because he did something that he didn't know was wrong, because I haven't taught that to him. So that's my fault and I shouldn't have smacked him for something that was my fault. OTOH, bumping into me IS absolutely not acceptable, and maybe getting firm was OK? I don't know. 

At least we have a fair amount of trust built up, so this one thing shouldn't really set us back. I'm just not happy that it happened.

Another problem I have, and this is both front and back feet, AND it happens with Pony too, is sometimes when I want to pick up a foot, I approach that foot with I guess what must be firm "I mean business" body language because in my mind I am thinking "Must pick up that foot now" and all they see is me coming toward them with firm body language, then they think I'm asking them to back up and they back up.

So speaking of back feet, I was so proud the other day that Rowan can now move his haunches over from just being pointed at, right? Well guess what, he now thinks that when I step in toward his back feet, maybe I want him to move his haunches over. We did get a couple of nice pickups on both back feet with no kicking, but again all I was doing was signaling him and then stepping back. I wasn't holding his foot or asking him to keep it up for more than a second. I guess it's better than nothing.

Overall I don't feel good about today. I don't know what to do. I think this has showed that we still have some things to work on (personal space; holding still) and I feel like he is unhappy about his feet being messed with. But his feet NEED to get done. I think I'm just going to go the sedation route the first time. I remember that part of my concern about it before was that he was so weak I was afraid he might fall over. He's gained a lot of weight since then. Maybe we can just do the fronts, under sedation, and then keep working with his feet to try to get him comfortable, and then try to do a normal trim the next time.

So, what I'm taking away from this is:

In general he trusts me. So if he has had some bad experience with his feet, and I just keep working with him nicely, every day, over and over, eventually the good will overlay the bad and he should be OK.
We need to work on personal space (still) and holding still (still).
I can't really stop working with his feet and wait until he's perfect with personal space, because personal space is a work in progress and his feet need to get done NOW. Maybe I can figure out how to be more clear about what I want (when I ask for your foot, don't move) in this one instance, but without resorting to hitting him. I can't keep hitting him when working on his feet, as that's just going to reinforce whatever negative feelings he already has about the situation.
So, I guess after writing this, and sitting on it, and writing it some more, I don't feel quite as bad. Things happen. I've got a plan. I just need to keep working on it.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I’m sorry you had a bad day.

So, there is a thing my father says. He says, “When a person begins beating on a horse, that is when they’ve come to the end of their training ability.” I’ve always known that sang, and what he is meaning, and so when I get frustrated it makes me think about my own training ability, what tools I have to deal with a situation, and if I need to learn something I’m lacking.

Now, I don’t think it’s wrong to smack a horse by any means, but I think it isn’t wrong when it is done with intent of training. So, if he is pushing into you and you wack him, and you are saying by that wack “if you come that close to me rudely I will hit you, so you need to learn to get away from me and I am serious about that,” that you are doing it from a training standpoint.

I was just having this conversation with my youngest, when she got to picking on Zeus instead of actually teaching him. She was mad and wanted to bully him into what she wanted.

Now, I don’t think that is the level you were at, but I do think it was that feeling that struck you as wrong. It came from that feeling. I think it’s really impressive that you picked up on it, and now you are thinking about your training and how to go about teaching what you want.

Feet can be really hard with some horses. I know you don’t like the drugging idea, but I will tell you it has worked for me on Bones. He only needed it twice. I’ve seen it work on my father’s roan horse too. It’s rare for us to have one we have to resort to that on, but it makes a huge difference. I feel like they kind of remember what happened, and that it wasn’t that terrible.

Don’t expect to fix the feet issue right away. It takes time and patience, and you will get there.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Knave said:


> So, there is a thing my father says. He says, “When a person begins beating on a horse, that is when they’ve come to the end of their training ability.”


Wow, that took everything I was trying to say in multiple paragraphs and put it into one concise sentence. That's 100% it.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I feel bad when I smack a horse . . . for about 1 minute, then I move on. They do! anyhow, it sounds like his circling close was either him feeling like he could get a treat out of you (if you hand treat, which I don't remember if you do or don't) ., or, he was pushing on you, and that can feel really bad to you. The thing about smackng and leaving it at that is that it's punishmennt onnly. If you didn't get him to move off/away from you, then it isn't resolved and that can leave a bad feeling for both the smacker and the smackee.

As for the horse picking up their foot before you even touch it? not a fan. I do not want a horse to do that unless I am touching the leg and clearly asking for a foot up. to me, it is the horse anticipating and it speeds things up and takes the measured communication of touch between human and horse out of the equation. you might want the horse to pick up the foot slowly, or only part way, or move it over across the body, or put it down toe first. you want the horse to be available to direction from you, not himself deciding how to pick up his feet. That is one reason why I put my hand on the horse's shoulder or flank, then run it down the leg to the hoof, then ask. If the horse isn't ok with your hand going down his body, he won't be ok wiith his feet being picked up.

Same with putting on the halter and bridle; I don't like it when a horse 'dives' into the halter. It's a knee jerk reaction. it takes me out of the equation. I might want him to just bend his face towards me, not to dive into the halter. He needs to wait and just stay with me.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I am with @tinyliny and don’t love the idea of them picking it up without me holding it and asking, but I don’t care about the halter hunting. Lol. I don’t like the picking it up because it gets in the way doctoring or brushing out feathers. Lol


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Interesting. I've always seen it as a time-saver (I mean them picking up their hooves). I like to start at the same hoof every time, then I go around the horse and do all the hooves in the same order every time. It makes it easy for me when they pick up the hoof as I get there or when I bend over. I can see how it would not be helpful when it comes to doctoring, though. Something to think about.


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## dustyk (Nov 14, 2020)

I like them to pick the foot up After they've been the signal that it is okay to do so. A lot of horses that I trim I've taught to pick the m up after I flick the back of their fetlock with my fingertips.
Keep in mind that until he gets a legit trim it may not be all that comfortable to stand on one hind. If he's not fighting you slide under him with your leg and give him a little added support. It might make a difference. As far as x-rays if he's not showing dorsal dishing or soreness I wouldn't until a local vet ran a farriers special on radiographs


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 46*

I was going to go out this evening, but now it looks like I'll want to be out tomorrow afternoon, so I think I'll cancel today. My body will appreciate one day of not breathing ragweed pollen.

Today I did get the farrier scheduled, for Saturday morning. It's not the one who said Rowan's coffin bone may have descended. It's the one my bodyworker recommended. The barn owner will be out at that time and she can sedate Rowan if needed. The farrier will do my own horses too, which is a great relief.

Rowan will get XRays tomorrow, which is why I want to go out. I was kind of waffling about getting XRays, but then yesterday the barn owner mentioned that the lameness vet is coming out on Wednesday and did I want him to look at Rowan for anything. I kind of felt like, this just fell into my lap, so let's get it done. Maybe I can ask for the "farrier special" @dustyk LOL.

I wasn't sure I'd be able to be out there. I called the vet's office (the barn owner said she'd just add me to the list, but I wanted to talk to them myself) and I had a meeting that would conflict with when they were expecting to be out. So I gave them a bunch of special instructions like it's fine to sedate him but I don't know how he does sedated, if you can't get the XRays that's OK don't force it etc. etc. And they wrote them all down. But if the barn owner is there and I'm not then they'll just listen to her instead of me and she's all about forcing it. So I talked to her and she'll put me at the end of the schedule. If I leave right after my meeting I should make it. This vet is usually pretty late anyways.

One thing that came out of the vet call that was interesting is that they said most horses have to be sedated for hoof XRays.  That made me feel good, because none of mine do. Even Teddy, who didn't want to be in there at all, when I had to get one of his XRayed, he did it. But I'm not going to expect that from Rowan. Of course, who knows.

Anyways, I feel better today because I have his hooves covered from two angles. I'll keep working with him on them in the meantime.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 47*

I had a meeting and the vet was early so by the time I got out there they already had him up and were negotiating him onto the blocks for the XRays. He was a little fidgety but not much. They had to reposition him a few times. He wasn't nervous or worried, he's just not the best at holding still at the moment.

So, his soles are a bit thin -- 8 mm and 8.5mm respectively on his fronts. I guess that's not really surprising given how long his toes were. Hopefully with regular trimming we can improve that. But no sign of coffin bone descent or any other hoof pathology. The vet had apparently given him a lameness exam before I got there, which I hadn't asked for but I'm glad he did. He round penned him both directions at all gaits and said he looks fine. So I asked him "Do you have any concerns about me starting this horse under saddle in a few months?" and he said no. That's good.

The vet thought he was a nice horse but just needed work on handling his feet. I talked to the groom and he said he's been working with him twice a day on his feet, and he can now pick them out, even the backs. He said Rowan had some big rocks stuck in there. Maybe that was why he was ouchy on the gravel.

When the vet was done with Rowan, I took him back to his paddock. The barn owner was like "Let the groom do it," but leading is something we're working on so I did it. I was in my regular soft shoes but I trust him to not run over me, so I just took him over there. Overall he was very good. After I fed him, I took him out to the big pasture. He tried to kind of push out of the halter when I was taking it off, or at least that was my impression, so I made him hold still until he stopped and then I took it off.

He didn't actually really want to leave, though. He walked off a few steps and then came back. So we worked on personal space at liberty. He's still not perfect, but I could definitely see many times when he started to encroach on me, then thought about it, then backed off, or stopped, or at least turned his head away. He followed me around as I walked his pasture a bit (I found a shoe with nails sticking out so that was good), and we worked on personal space then as well. He did encroach pretty close one time but I backed him up with just body language (and yelling LOL) so that was good.

I didn't end up spending much time out there (I hid from my horses and didn't even let them in) but it was good. I'm happy.


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## dustyk (Nov 14, 2020)

you chose x-rays. Now have some real information to move forward with. I know ypu don't worry but it should put your mind at ease alsoimi


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 50*

Rowan got his feet trimmed! I think it went about as well as could be expected. I asked about halfway through, "So do you agree he's probably never had his feet trimmed?" The trimmer replied in a kind of ominous voice, "This isn't the only way to trim a horse." But yeah, Rowan had obviously never had this done before.

Mainly his problem was he didn't want to the trimmer to keep his hooves. But the trimmer just held on and trimmed. He tried to scoot back with his other three feet a couple of times, but it put him in an awkward position so he scooted forward again. He was fidgety. He wanted to nibble the trimmer (don't worry, I didn't let him). He wanted to chew the lead rope (I did let him). But all in all the trimmer seemed to think it went pretty well. Actually when he was just about done, he realized he had left some tools behind Rowan so he turned around (his back toward Rowan) right behind Rowan's butt and bent over and calmly picked them up. I said, "You must feel like he's a pretty good horse, then, to do that." And he said, "Yes he's a really good horse." He thought Rowan had a lot of try and willingness and was really trying to understand what we wanted him to do. He was also impressed with how soft and responsive he was to pressure. He mentioned again several times that he really liked him. All of that stuff he was complimenting Rowan for, that's how he came to me. I didn't put it on him. But I'm happy to know that I haven't hurt it either.

He didn't need to be sedated. He wasn't worried or freaked out, he just didn't understand what was being asked of him and he didn't like having to hold still for that long.

Oh, and the trimmer thinks if he's four he's just barely four, and may be a long three. I'll know for sure when the dentist comes out in January.

ETA: he said Rowan has thrush in his back feet. Maybe that's why he was a little tender.

I really liked him, and he's willing to come back, too! He'll come back in a little over four weeks. 

I took Rowan to his paddock after that and let him chill for a while. I made an obstacle line thing out of random barn objects and led Pony through it. Then I came back with the pool noodle I had brought from home. Rowan was OK with it, but my goal was to put it over his head and he didn't really like that too much. However, we used rewards and shaping and pretty soon he was fine with it. I put the lunging surcingle on him again. He was also not too thrilled about that. So I left it on. I worked on his ears. Then we went into the covered arena, where we hadn't been before, and worked on leading, ground poles, and the mounting block.

He was OK with the leading over there but not super awesome and we did have a few discussions. Overall he was good. He was distracted by some horses two paddocks over that he hadn't met yet. 

For the mounting block, I was kind of surprised by how many steps back we had to take it before we found a place that he could understand and do easily. That was me just standing in front of him with him lined up at the mounting block, and saying "hoooooooaaa" and rewarding him for standing still. We also did a little soft backing, one foot at a time, and a little soft moving forward, one step at a time. More standing still, then walking around a bit, etc. By the end I could stand on the second step of the mounting block and he would just stand there.

I didn't round pen him, though.

Oh, when I got there this morning, he was in his pasture and when he saw me he wanted to come in. But he was on the wrong side of the stall / paddock combo in my barn. That stall / paddock combo plus the pond mean that he can't just walk over to the side where there's the gate into the stall / paddock. He was pretty unhappy about that and really wanted to come in. So I went out and brought him around with me. I had him loose, and while he followed me for a few seconds he then saw the other geldings being brought out through the main pasture gate and wanted to go over there. However, I called him and he came and followed me. After a bit of following I realized he was starting to encroach, so I asked him to lead like he would if he were on a lead rope -- a few steps off to my right side. I just visualized what I wanted and then asked for it and he did it just fine. That was really nice.

Also someone mentioned to me that they had gone out there for something and then he followed them back in. So he definitely really likes to follow.

I didn't end up taking HIM through the obstacle thing, though, just Pony. We'll do it next time.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 51*

Today was not so good of a day. I was tired for some reason and there were a lot of chores to do before I could have any horse time.

By the time I was ready, Rowan was standing next to the fence that he shares with a pony. They were just dozing. He had been out there for a while and I had wanted to give him his time, but then I felt like I needed to do something with him. So I went out there with them and sat about 10 feet away. That didn't last too long before he came over, though. We worked on polite head position for a bit.

Then he really shocked me. He pinned his ears at this pony and tried to drive her away. I should have yelled at him (it's not OK to chase other horses when a hooman is around) but I was just so shocked. The pony wasn't too impressed by Rowan's efforts, or maybe she was smart enough to realize there was a fence between them, so she just kind of stood there. So I led him off. He pinned his ears again. Probably at her, but I stopped and let him know that that was not OK. Just in case he had been thinking me.

So we tried to work on putting his head down and nose into the halter. We reviewed head down from poll pressure, then introduced the halter. I think what I learned from the next 15 or so minutes is that next time I try to teach him to do this I won't use a food reward. Because it wasn't too long before he was just trying to eat the halter. He's very mouthy so of course putting something near his mouth and then giving him food would trigger this. By the end, I was getting him to lower his head just a bit, and the second he just touched the halter I rewarded him. So as to not give him time to start chewing. But really I don't think we made any progress. He's fine being haltered, so maybe I'll just drop this altogether for now. I just thought it would be really nice if he would be one of those horses that just drops their nose down into the halter for you.

We went back into the covered arena to work on leading and then standing still at the mounting block. We also walked over a raised pole a few times. I'm trying to figure out where it went wrong in there. What we do at the mounting block is line up with it and then do backing up one foot, and then holding still. And then another one, and holding still. Then stepping forward one foot, holding stiff. Backwards, forwards, still. Rewards. Etc. But he was antsy today. So then I thought, well let's walk around a bit to kind of clear our heads, and he suggested that he was feeling mouthy. There was no physical contact made, but there was definite pointing of his head at me with his mouth opening. So we had a lot of discussions about that. Then back to the mounting block, but he was still mouthy, and now he was chewing the lead rope. He was even more fidgety. We walked around again, and then I thought I will just sit at the mounting block and that will encourage him to just stand and chill, but it didn't. We had several vigorous discussion about personal space.

We walked around again (did better with it this time). I figured let's end on a good note so we stopped at the mounting block just very briefly, and he got treats for holding still, then we left.

We did walk through the dangling obstacles. At first he wanted to go around like Pony had, but I was ready for that this time and just guided him where I wanted him to go. At least that went well. Also after thinking about what the farrier said about his back feet having thrush, I talked to the groom and he'll pick them out and put thrushbuster in them every day for at least a week. I ended up giving him $50 because that was all the cash I had in the truck. He kind of didn't want to take it, but he did. I wonder if his thrushy feet are contributing to him not wanting to pick up those feet.

I'm trying to figure out what went wrong in the arena. I'm thinking now maybe I should have just round penned him first, and really got him moving. And exercised him for a while. Maybe then he wouldn't have been so fidgety. I was just tired and it felt like a lot of work for some reason, so I didn't.

ETA one other small good thing was he had a tiny spook while I was right next to him. The spooky object (car appearing out of "nowhere" was on his other side so he could have spooked into me. But instead he just spooked in place.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Yay for Rowan's hoof trim!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 52*

Much better. I decided not to do any of that stuff in the arena. I round penned him instead. Boy is he out of shape. I mean, of course he would be but I need to start working him more at speed. After a couple of laps of trotting each way, he was breathing hard. So we did mix in a lot of walking, and we stopped a couple of times also. I need to maybe start keeping track of how much time we are spending at the trot and try to increase it each time.

We can do an inside turn at the trot in his "good" direction, but to do it in the other direction, even at the walk, I still have to break it down into tiny steps and praise him each time. 

I put the one ground pole in there and he's doing really well with it. He sees it, thinks about it, and picks up his feet. Except. This one time I guess I gave him too much "go" and he was cantering and didn't seem to see it until the last minute. There's also a big orange safety cone on the inside of the pole, for visibility and to discourage him from coming in. Well, he jumped the cone. He did it pretty well, too! It surprised me and made me laugh. I trotted him over again right away and he was fine with it.

He was actually a bit "up" on the way over there, as it was a windy and drizzly day. Up for him just means he's very alert and is sniffing a lot. He did snort once also. 

So after a decent amount of trotting, with lots of walk breaks, we stopped. We worked on lightly giving to pressure, forward and backward. Basically backing up one foot at a time, then forward one foot at a time. He was a lot better with it than yesterday in the arena. Then I had the idea of doing pre-rein work. So what I did is I clipped the lead rope to the off side of his halter and stood on the left. Then I created very light pressure for him to turn his head away from me. He picked that up fairly quickly. Then I switched sides and he picked that side up a little less quickly. After that it really started raining and I thought let's just go back to his paddock and work in the shelter.

He was calmer going back but also I let him crowd me a few times, which wasn't good. Overall he was good.

So back in the paddock, I got Pony's clip-on reins and clipped them on to Rowan's halter. So I could do alternating (light) pressure on each side. That took a few tries and then he mostly got it. One thing I couldn't figure out is how people get their horses to move while staying right there on their shoulder to short rein them while walking. That's what we need in order to reinforce "whoa" from pressure with both reins. He already understands "whoa" from general lead rope pressure, and his response to vocal command is getting much better. So I don't think it will be too hard for him to understand "whoa" pressure from both reins. I just need to figure out how to get him moving that way first.

I still intend to lunge him and ground drive him, but it just popped into my head today to work on "short reins" so we did. Overall I was really happy with him today.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Two more things I forgot to mention.


Yet another person at my barn had another nice interaction with him. She went to get the horse she was riding in a lesson, and Rowan followed them to the gate. Then she was like, "What do I do now?" So she just asked him to back off and he did. She was impressed with the whole thing. But again I don't think any of this is anything I taught him.
I mentioned to my husband that Rowan would be a good husband horse. He asked what is a husband horse and I explained. I think Rowan would be a good husband horse because he's handsome, big-boned, submissive, willing, and is not so tall as to be scary nor so short as to look silly (he's about 15'2hh). I then continued that Rowan would make a good husband horse for HIM. My husband made a non-committal grunt, which I take to indicate that he would like Rowan to be his horse. Not really entirely. He isn't really interested in riding something that has a mind of its own (unless it's a self-driving car, THAT is somehow acceptable to him). But still. He didn't say No.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

This is just something I've been thinking about. I've been thinking about, what makes a horse "smart"? I think we consider an animal smart when it can learn what we want it to do quickly. Rowan can learn pretty quickly. But is he smart? I think the reason he can learn quickly is that in his mind he just wants to do whatever someone tells him to do. He's naturally submissive and a natural follower. So it isn't in his mind that he needs to put up resistance, and he's willing to let go of his own ideas and try to get with someone else's ideas. So if I put some pressure on him to try to get him to do something (e.g. turn his head to the other side) he'll use his mental energy trying to figure out what I want and then do it, rather than using that same mental energy to try to fight me about it. By not fighting, he keeps his stress levels lower and keeps himself mentally more in a place where he can learn. But is he smart? I honestly don't know.

I hope that makes sense. It made a lot more sense in my head before I tried to write it down LOL.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I had a trainer tell me once that Fizz was not a smart horse, and for some reason, it really upset me. Actually, I think it upset me because I've been conditioned to value "smart" as one of the best traits a person or animal can have. Anyway, this trainer was trying to teach her a ground work maneuver that involved going forward and sideways at once, and Fizz just wasn't getting it. When she didn't seem to understand, she would just sort of freeze and plant her feet. Trainer kept at it for something like 20 minutes (I think I have a painfully boring video of this somewhere), and eventually turned to me and said she really disliked working with horses that aren't sensitive enough to react quickly to pressure and aren't smart enough to try different responses to cues they haven't learned before. I still don't really know what to make of it. I guess it made me wonder, like you, what the definition of horse smartness is. Is it picking up on the "right" reaction to human cues quickly? Making a choice that's likely grounded in self-preservation? Doing the least amount of work possible? Figuring out a response to a human request that's not necessarily what the human was looking for, but more beneficial to the horse herself? I really don't know...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@egrogan don’t be terribly insulted by the comment. I understand, since you are so smart, that smart must really call to you. Yet, I would prefer horses to be a little less smart. I think most around here use smart as kind of a negative in reference to a horse.

I think smart horses are more difficult to work with. They overthink things, they don’t get set into one answer. Yet, then I would call Zeus really smart, and if he decides one way or another on something, he can outthink me! Lol. He can find a solution that I cannot beat if he chooses! He’s so kindhearted that he never chooses to do a dangerous thing, but he can choose some funny thing…

Yet, I find different kinds of smart in horses. I guess it is just like people for me. Everyone is the best at something, right?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 54*

Yet another very short day. Today we worked some more on moving the haunches over. He's quite good at moving them over now, but he doesn't always do it the "correct" way. I want to start a thread about that.

Did a little bit of one step back and one step forward. He seemed like he was losing focus, so I thought maybe he didn't feel like doing much today. I took off his halter and opened the gate from the tiny paddock to his big pasture, and he walked over there and maybe thought about it? Then he came back and wanted to do some more work.

The other thing we did was the "short rein" work again -- yielding to very light pressure from either side of the reins. Today I added in backing up. So that was the new thing. I can't quite figure out the mechanics of getting him moving while I have my hands on the reins, in order to then get him to stop. So I figured backing up is kind of related to stopping, so if we can get that done then it will be easier to get the stop once I figure out how to do that.

He wasn't entirely sure what I was asking at first, so I added the vocal command "baaaaaaack" as a bridge and then he picked it up. So we did that a few times. He actually was really good at it.

Then it was sunset already and I had to put everyone back (I don't like to drive in the dark). But after I put Teddy and Pony back and was filling the water trough, I realized my daughter was still doing things with Moonshine, so I went out to the big pasture, where Rowan was still hanging out by the fence, apparently trying to figure out how to open the gate to let himself back in LOL.

So... I know I said I wasn't going to let him into my space at all for a whole month, but ugh. I tried again letting him in and then rubbing him gently on the face. I guess the idea is if he wants to loved on then he can come in, and if being rubbed on the face annoys him then he can step back. I don't know. I'm terrible. I know I should be better at setting boundaries. But I did find a place where he kind of liked being scratched a little very gently. And he didn't push into me at all and was overall polite.

*Highlight of the day: he picked up backing up from rein pressure very quickly.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 55*

I'm not going out there today so I just have some random thoughts.

First of all, I don't HAVE to keep Rowan. It's just that he's a really nice horse and I would hate for him to go to someone who wouldn't appreciate how nice he is. For instance, right now he's very soft and responsive -- I'd hate for him to go to someone who was just going to yank and kick him, and destroy that softness. Second, he's very willing with a ton of try. I'd hate for him to go to someone who was really heavy-handed and dominating and who punished him for getting the wrong answer, and then killed his try. I think that's what happened to Teddy, and it's really sad. Third, he's really engaged with the world, and I'd hate for him to go to someone who punished him for that. And finally he's just so friendly. I'd hate for him to go to someone who didn't appreciate that in a horse. I mean, if someone doesn't care about these things, they should just get a guarded, shut down horse like Moonshine. She's a great horse in a lot of ways. But she is not super invested in her relationship with her people. And she isn't interested in trying anything new that you want to explain to her.

Another thing is I keep thinking Rowan is like Teddy, and he isn't. Or at least he isn't in important ways. Rowan has not displayed any signs of anxiety or worry. He doesn't seem to bottle stuff up, and he's never exploded. I need to remind myself that I don't need to try to manage his anxiety, because he doesn't have much if any, and he can manage it himself. I mean, I don't need to create anxiety in him, and I will keep treating him with kindness and patience, but I need to stop thinking I have to manage things for him, because I don't think I do, and frankly he is capable of doing it and needs to be able to manage things himself

I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop with Rowan. I mean, waiting for his personality to change for the worse. It didn't happen after he gained weight, and it didn't happen after our honeymoon period, if in fact we had one. Now I'm worried that as I start building muscle by working him in the roundpen, he will change for the worse somehow.

He definitely needs the exercise, though. When he first got here, he had a few weeks of pacing the fenceline when the neighboring horses weren't there, and he'd start running around when people were cantering in lessons next to him. But he's realized that he'll get turned out every night (soon to be all day) with his friends, so he doesn't pace so much any more. And he's realized that someone cantering in the arena next to him doesn't mean he needs to be concerned. So right now he basically stands around all day and eats. Even out in the pasture, he just moseys around. Which is fine, I like a low-key horse. But if he's not going to exercise himself then I need to exercise him. I couldn't expect him to carry someone around the way he is now.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

That is why I can’t be a horse trader. A part of me wishes I would. I think I would enjoy it. The other part knows good and well that any horse who proves themselves to be a good horse I wouldn’t sell.

Look at Zeus. My youngest bought him will full intentions of selling him for her college fund. You know what happened? We offered to buy him. She won’t even sell him to us. Lol. We are not good horse traders.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Things to work on with Rowan next, more or less in order:

Increase duration of time in roundpen, work more at faster gaits, introduce more ground poles (still need to work on inside turns going right)
Immediately follow roundpen work with work that requires him to hold still or just move a little at a time. Hopefully he will have burned off some energy from the roundpenning and be more amenable to this "quiet" work.
Same thing for tying.
Maybe work on picking up feet after this.
Introduce lunging. Use arena 3 rather than roundpen, due to large post in roundpen seeming dangerous.
Have trainer canter Pony in arena 3 for part of my lesson, while I stand in the middle and hold Rowan. He has learned that activity in the arena next to him doesn't concern him. Now he needs to be clear that activity in the same arena also doesn't really concern him.
Start working him with the bareback pad on.
Keep working with bits.
Introduce saddle.
More short rein work? Stand next to him and cue him to move with the stirrup of the saddle, which he should be wearing.
Introduce bridle.
Ground driving.
Am I missing anything obvious here?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 56*

I worked really hard at work this quarter and kind of stressed myself out making sure I got all of my goals accomplished, but I did, and I got them done early, so I am taking today and Monday off work as a reward. And also kind of as mental health days LOL.

I was going to work on loading today, but it rained. I mean, it stormed. It poured down for maybe 30-45 minutes and then after that it rained off and on for another couple of hours. It's great -- we really needed the rain. But I decided to work on loading another day.

Really mostly what I ended up doing was mucking out stalls. I also had a nice quiet sit down with a pastry and cup of coffee. I shared the pastry with Teddy. He really likes pastries and is polite about taking food. I really like sitting in there with them when it's cool and rainy, listening to them munching hay while I eat something.

With Rowan, I got out the clip on reins again. We started with backing, but he didn't understand. So I bridged with the voice command again, and then he remembered. After that we did it with just rein pressure. We did turning the head to both sides with the reins, but I noticed he seems to be not bending at the poll when I asked for the turn. He was more turning from the base of his neck / shoulder. So I took the reins off and tried with just the lead rope, and he bent nicely at the poll. I tried again with the reins and didn't want to release the pressure this time until I got a bend at the poll. He did bend a little and I released at that. I need to think about what's going on there.

Since it had rained so much, there was the huge puddle in the road again, so we did that. It's maybe 14 feet wide and eight feet long? Or the other way around. It's not more than three inches deep, but the water is always murky so you can't see the bottom. Rowan hesitated for a split second then followed me in. He did walk gingerly, but he walked through it fine. Same on the way back. I'm really happy that nothing I've thrown at him so far has really bothered him.









For lack of anything else to do, I got a ball and threw it all around him. I got the pool noodle out again and put it over his head again. He was not loving it but he accepted it. Oh, and we worked on his sensitivity around his face again. I think we're making progress there, just not very fast.

I was killing time waiting for the bodyworker. Due to the storm, she wasn't sure when she would come. But she showed up eventually. To our great surprise, Rowan got really into it when she was working on the vertebrae at the base of his neck. He kept moving his head up and down like it was super itchy, and then he spent about ten minutes leaning hard into her hand as she held it there. This surprised her because you don't usually get two sessions in a row with such a strong reaction, and it surprised me because I haven't noticed any weirdness with his neck. When he had all of those releases when she worked on his hind end that didn't really surprise me, because he's always been kind of squirrely back there. She said to keep an eye on him and see if I notice any changes the next few days.

She was very complimentary about him, again. She said she really likes him now. She agreed that he has the makings of a husband horse. I also asked her if she knew of anyone who was a good person who is looking for a nice horse, explaining why I wouldn't want him to go to just anyone. She said she didn't, and in this economic climate she imagines not a lot of people want another horse.

I left him in his stall overnight. His paddock is really muddy and I don't want him tearing it up any more than he already did. I'll put him out tomorrow morning.

ETA: I'm really really happy that Rowan is progressing nicely. I never would have thought, that first year struggling through with Pony, that I'd be able to actually train a horse. Of course Rowan makes it easy. But also I am super grateful for Horse Forum as a resource. 

*Highlight: no problem crossing water.*


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## boatagor (Jun 27, 2017)

ACinATX said:


> *Day 56*
> 
> I worked really hard at work this quarter and kind of stressed myself out making sure I got all of my goals accomplished, but I did, and I got them done early, so I am taking today and Monday off work as a reward. And also kind of as mental health days LOL.
> 
> ...


If only he could be adopted out of state! I'm really liking him 🙂


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

You have the book, Countdown To Broke. You could follow the training lessons through with Rowan. You might be riding sooner than you think.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

boatagor said:


> If only he could be adopted out of state! I'm really liking him 🙂


I felt the same - bay + lots of hair is my type!!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

nice update. as to him bending differently with lead rope vs reins, . . . here's a thought; the different set-ups can have a different way of pulling due to how they attach to the halter. If the reins are on the side of the face, and the halter is loose, they can end up pulling the halter all skewed, and it's confusing and uncomfortable. make sure the halter is close enough fitting not to rotate a lot if a lateral 'pull' is applied.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

My .02 cents worth...

You keep mentioning round-penning and exercise and energy...

Just remember the more you round-pen and work him the more fit he is becoming and going to be.
The more fit the more energy and need of moving to spend the pent-up....
A vicious cycle...
Beware...

And don't you have a bitless bridle?
Or some variation of side-pull, hackamore or something?
Unless you are adjusting that halter to fit as a bridle headstall should, you may indeed by giving signals the horse not understand cause it comes at a different angle and point felt...
Consider what and where your message is broadcasting from and where it is received...and for now my voice would always be a reinforcing tool used to convey what he feels and connects in his mind and through repetition
Agree with where comment by tinyliny is coming from.....

If you are ground-driving it may also be time Rowan consistently wears a surcingle so the reins/long-lines are a semblance of where they shall give cues when astride starts to occur...that groundwork needs laid now to continue forward... Rowan can work in a headstall minus a bit and surcingle "loose" in the round-pen, but the wearing of is a training item he needs to accept during work not just standing around. Then clip on and ground-drive is faster, the purpose of time to work and pay attention not just him zoning out in boredom as many who are often "lunged" do...
Back to...
🐴.... _jmo..._


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@horselovinguy I did think about that cycle of energy, and I don't want a hot horse on my hands for sure, but I feel like he needs to get more strength, endurance, and coordination before I get on him. Where he is now, I don't think it would be fair to get on him and expect him to carry me around. And I don't see him (or didn't until today) getting much exercise in the pasture by himself.

*Day 57*

Since Rowan had an eventful bodywork session, the bodyworker recommended that I not round pen him, even at the walk, today, but rather work in the arena at the walk in straight lines. So that's mostly what we did.

While the arena was being used, I worked with him to reinforce backing with rein pressure, turning his head with rein pressure, and holding still. He actually did really well holding still today. I walked all the way around him saying "hoooooooaaaa" and he didn't move. Both directions. A couple of times. He seemed to find it more clear if I put my hand on him and keep it on him, for some reason.

While we were working, I think he had the idea to pin his ears at the horses in the lesson, whenever they walked past (I was working him right next to the fence because it was the driest spot in his paddock). I say that because he didn't actually pin his ears, but I don't know, maybe he was moving his head in a certain way? Something about him suggested he was thinking about it. If he had pinned, I would have reprimanded, but it's possible I was just imagining it.

After they were done we went in there. They had some series of ground poles and slightly raised poles they had been working on, so we did those also. I made a couple more. This was Rowan's first time to do a series where it was one right after the other. He did very well -- he put his head down, looked at them, and didn't bonk his feet at all.

Then we did the rein stuff again. I managed to get him moving so we could work on "hooooooaaaa" from rein pressure. It was kind of interesting. At first he didn't understand (even with verbal cues) and then he stopped but only briefly, and then took a step or two back . I guess that's not really surprising, given that we had been working on backing up from that same pressure. But we worked on it and he figured it out. Basically I just worked on expanding that pause and making the step back less and less, and then we got to where it was all pause (stop) and no stepping back.

We also worked on moving forward with rein pressure from the side, and how that means he needs to make a turn (not just turn his head and keep walking straight) and then keep walking in the new direction. He did pretty well with that. All of the above work was only from his left side, but I used both reins to stop, obviously, and we turned in both directions. I'll work him from the other side next time.

I also let him loose in the arena between things we were working on. He still seems not quite sure about the sand. I guess it was different today because it was wet. He kept sniffing it to the point that I thought he was going to roll. But he didn't. I then demonstrated rolling in the sand to him, to encourage him. He just watched me from a distance with what I thought was a wary look LOL. Actually, though, it felt really nice. I might do it again.

After that I just put him back in the paddock.

Oh I forgot to mention. When I turned him out into his small paddock this morning, he ate for a bit and then he ran around a LOT. Both directions. I was complaining that he doesn't do much when he's turned out. The bodyworker said because he had such a dramatic session last time, to keep an eye on him to see what he was like today. I don't know if that's related or not (it was also a blustery day), but it was definitely different.

I talked to the barn owner and asked for him to be out in the big pasture 24/7 rather than the paddock half the time. Moonshine will get the paddock full-time now, and I'll try to give her tiny paddock a break to regrow some ground cover (I tossed rye grass see in). I plan on keeping him out in the big pasture full time unless he starts dropping weight. Maybe being out there with the other horses will encourage him to run around a bit.

With respect to my cues for him moving his head, and the halter, and the hackamore (@horselovinguy and @tinyliny ). So I really tried to make sure the halter was on correctly today, and he did better with bending at the poll rather than the neck. So I feel ... OK about it. I guess I need to go back to working on bridling him and then we could start "short reining" with that. I ordered a bit like Pony's but half an inch bigger, and I also ordered the same bit that Teddy had (thin-ish single jointed snaffle with rubber over it). Right now he prefers the one-piece bit. That hackamore I have is a leverage hackamore, and while it doesn't have huge levers, knowing what I know now and how it applies pressure, I don't think I'd use it unless I had to. I wish I had a simple sidepull.

*Highlight of the day: he figured out stop from rein pressure (I do think stopping is the most important thing a horse can do, IDK if that says more about me than it does about horses, but that's what I think) and he also figured out to move his whole body into a turn, and then keep moving, when his head is turned with rein pressure.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 58*

My finger is still in the cast, but I picked out all four of Rowan's feet today. Myself! For the first time! I had watched the groom do it yesterday and Rowan seemed a lot better about it, so I did it today. I am not as fast as Rowan would like, and we still had a bit of a discussion on both back feet, but nothing nearly as bad as it had been. I don't know if it's the groom spending time on him, or his thrush being treated, or the bodywork, or what. But he's much better. Still not as good as my other horses, but of course what do you expect -- it's still kind of new to him.

I loaded him in the trailer today. He was good about it. If anything he was a little rushy to get on. So that was kind of interesting. I'm glad I had him stop and think about it, but even so he was a bit rushy. We walked out the side ramp, which in case anyone remembers from his first day, he jumped off the side of it when he got here. He sort of wanted to do that the first time today, but I mostly stopped him. And the second time, he still wanted to do it but didn't. I didn't spend a lot of time with him on the trailer, but I think next time we'll go in and just stand there and get treats. To get him thinking about stopping there rather than rushing.

I round penned him. It was kind of interesting, I couldn't keep him even at a trot at first. But I thought about what everyone said about me roundpenning Pony, and we eventually worked it out. I trotted him over that ground pole. He bonked his feet every other time or even every time. Now that he's seen it once he doesn't care about it any more and doesn't put his head down to look at it, so he bonks it. One time he even stepped on it with his back foot. So I just made him keep trotting around and around at the same speed and direction until he finally looked at it and then got it fine. Then I let him stop. I then took the ground pole away and he cantered in both directions. Once he got to cantering, he was happier staying in the trot, so that worked out. I didn't canter him too much. I was more focused on transitions with verbal cues. He did VERY well on that. Oh, and we did all of this with him wearing the surcingle. It didn't seem to bother him.

One of the other horse owners came today with a friend. The friend I guess has a little (?) horse experience. I asked her if she wanted to roundpen Rowan and she said yes. So that was interesting. She was a little unclear in her body language (says me LOL) and he didn't catch on at first to what she wanted, but you could see he was thinking and trying. And after about 10 minutes she could get him to change gaits with a verbal cue and come in when she wanted. She really liked him (I was trying to get her to adopt him LOL). Everyone likes him. Someone else at the barn was commenting today about how sweet he is.

*Highlights of the day: I picked out all of his feet. He trailer loads with no problem.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 59*

The last day of my long weekend. Today was mostly about Pony, which was fine because I needed to spend time with him.

With Rowan, I picked his feet again. I also got my nippers and cut off this flap on one of his frogs that was really bugging me yesterday. He thought about personal space and mostly came up with the right answers.

I took him into arena 3 and lunged him. He already knows how to lunge, which I had kind of suspected. I lunged him both directions at a walk and a trot. I didn't spend a lot of time with it. I just wanted to know if he knew how.

I turned him out and then went out to the pasture with him. They had just gotten some new round bales so I sat on one while he ate. I took some pictures. And that was that.

*Highlight of the day: Rowan knows how to lunge. I can cross that off my list.*


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Don't think I've eve heard of anyone demonstrating 'roll in this sand' to teach a horse before 
You shouldl have got THAT on video!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 61*

We continue to move at what I am calling the speed of Rowan. I've mentally moved up my "first ride" (get on get off end of ride) date to maybe December rather than January-February. Today we did have some very tiny hiccups though, which I actually think was good (see below).

I put the bareback pad on him and round penned him at all gaits. He did, at the canter, especially going one way, put his head down a little more than usual, and perhaps his back feet felt a little lighter than usual. He didn't buck, not at all, but I do think he wasn't entirely happy with it. By the end of the session, he was switching easily between all gaits with just verbal commands (I put the whip down because I didn't need it any more). I let him get a little out of breath but not a lot. I also didn't have a ton of time to spend with him.

After that we went into arena 3 and worked on standing still at the mounting block. He was much, much, much better than last time we worked on this. In fact he was so good that I got on the top step of the mounting block and leaned over him. No problem. So I put a little weight (with my hand) on the saddle pad. When I did that, he did consistently turn his head to the other side and look at the girth of the saddle pad (or maybe he was looking at the saddle pad) so we didn't do anything more than that. We did several stops at the mounting block, then walked away, then came back. His only problem is when I ask him to step forward he does but then he swings his butt out.

So, to me, today, we encountered two areas of slight discomfort: cantering with the saddle pad and having pressure put on his back. I am actually really glad about this. The reason being, he's just so good about everything that I was starting to wonder if maybe I'm just not able to read his subtle signs of physical or mental discomfort. Maybe I was rushing things, since nothing seemed to bother him, when I shouldn't be. But today we discovered two areas where we need to stop and take extra time with them before continuing. I'm pretty happy about that.

I picked his feet out and also put thrushbuster in his back frogs for the first time. I think the groom was right, though -- it seems to be pretty cleared up. I'll continue picking his feet but I won't mention it here again.

*Highlights of the day: He held still at the mounting block with no problems. We discovered a couple of areas where we need to spend more time.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 62*

A "meh" day. I thought I was going to have two hours out there but it ended up being only about an hour and a half, and I had to help muck a stall, feed everyone, pick feet, fly spray, etc., before I could do anything.

The good thing was that Rowan walked through the sprinklers of doom. What this is is, the barn owner is using a noisy diesel generator to pull water from the pond to water the dressage arena. That water smells so bad, you could not believe it. It smells like it's just sulphur water. It's not supposed to be sprinklers there but the hose has a ton of holes. So that stinky water was spraying up to chest high on Rowan, it was noisy, and the ground was wet. So after I called him in I got well ahead of him because I was curious if he would go through it by himself.










Maybe he would have eventually, but he got there and the stopped and kind of paced around trying to find a way through. So I went back out, still on the other side, and called him. And then he came through. Carefully, but he did. So it's nice that he would go through with me calling him over.

I put the bareback pad on him. It's just going to be on him all the time now, unless we're long lining, in which case I need the surcingle. Hopefully he'll get very comfortable with it very soon.

All we did was short rein work. We did OK. Not great. I felt like my cuing was off, and he certainly acted like it. Plus he was a bit distracted. We did get back to him understanding to stop from rein pressure, but it wasn't a good stop. So I think I want to try long lining next. The problem I feel like I'm having is that I have to put my arm up high to get over his withers and to the other side, and then I think it makes the pressure come from high up on one side and lower down on the other side. I don't think that's very helpful. So long lining should be better.

The agency told me they would probably put him up for adoption soon. I guess they were just waiting for him to get healthy. They basically said he wasn't very adoptable right now, as he's not started under saddle, and he would be last on their priority list to pay for a trainer. So I guess I will have him for a while still, hopefully. I really do want to start him under saddle myself. And I'm still wondering if there is some way I could work out to keep him, and if I should try.

*Highlight of the day: I guess him going through that sprinkler thing when I asked.*


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> The agency told me they would probably put him up for adoption soon. I guess they were just waiting for him to get healthy. They also said he wasn't very adoptable right now, as he's not started under saddle, and he would be last on their priority list to pay for a trainer. So I guess I will have him for a while still, hopefully. I really do want to start him under saddle myself. And I'm still wondering if there is some way I could work out to keep him, and if I should try.


If you want him just tell the rescue you want to adopt him...
You have grown fond of him...and let it be.
Put in the paperwork and pay the fee.

Don't assume no one wants him because he is "un-trained"...  
You've heard how many here say if he was closer they would go after him...they will _not_ be the only ones.
Speak up or kick yourself when he goes poof before you even know someone is interested.
The new pictures of him is all it will take...no one actually needs to come see in person actually so don't go by that either.....

If you want him....its time to make that decision of do you add to your herd or do you pull your heart back that is very attached and time to walk away....
Walking away, its going to be like losing a family member to death...yes, rip the heart out cause you fell hard for him weeks ago.
Do it right, do it now or have regrets you let him disappear....
🐴....


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

horselovinguy said:


> If you want him just tell the rescue you want to adopt him...
> You have grown fond of him...and let it be.
> Put in the paperwork and pay the fee.
> 
> ...


I agree!


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> Don't assume no one wants him because he is "un-trained"...
> You've heard how many here say if he was closer they would go after him...they will _not_ be the only ones.
> Speak up or kick yourself when he goes poof before you even know someone is interested.
> The new pictures of him is all it will take...no one actually needs to come see in person actually so don't go by that either.....


Exactly this. Right now, he's in the condition Minnie was in when I got her from that "rescue". I am honest here - if he was in Michigan, I would have an application in for him. A clean, rehabilitated slate is exactly what I look for - preferably unstarted.

If you like him on the ground as you've described, I'd pull the trigger. Keep a trainer involved (at least weekly lessons, don't make my mistake - and NOT the trainer at your barn) when you start him under saddle. Decide what direction you want to develop him in to make him a reliable riding partner AND a desirable grade horse to others if you'd ever have to sell him down the line. Most of all, enjoy the benefits that come with a horse that is started and trained right...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I agree with everyone. If he’s going on the list, you had better speak up how and get started on your end if you want to adopt him. I think his look alone will make someone purchase him.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

She did say "we don’t get a lot of folks wanting to train their own." But I am noting what everyone said.

If I let someone adopt him, then that would be a horse that I helped, and it would make room for another horse that I could help. Whereas if I keep him, that would be the end of me helping horses, unless one of my own passed away.

I'm just thinking out loud.

I did ask them what the process would be for me to adopt him.

In a way, I wish he had not been so friendly, even though that's exactly what I asked for. I think that's what's tipping me over into wanting to keep him. I just love a friendly horse.


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## boatagor (Jun 27, 2017)

ACinATX said:


> She did say "we don’t get a lot of folks wanting to train their own." But I am noting what everyone said.
> 
> If I let someone adopt him, then that would be a horse that I helped, and it would make room for another horse that I could help. Whereas if I keep him, that would be the end of me helping horses, unless one of my own passed away.
> 
> ...


This is exactly why I know I would fail as any kind of foster. I fall in love too easily.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

boatagor said:


> This is exactly why I know I would fail as any kind of foster. I fall in love too easily.


If I foster fail him, I will never trust myself to foster again. I deliberately set this up to be fail proof.

Ha, I say that. I'd totally foster again. Who am I kidding.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 64*

Ugh. I was afraid something like this would happen. So I guess while I'm not surprised, I'm still not very happy.

When I got there today, the groom was really excited. He was like, "Now you don't have to worry about riding Rowan!" I thought, huh? And then he showed me the video. So, he got on Rowan bareback while Rowan was in his stall and then "rode" him by using the halter and lead rope. Rowan seemed to be fairly calm, I guess. I don't know, my eyes were kind of popping out of my head and don't remember if he seemed freaked out or not. He wasn't bucking or rearing or anything, at least not in this video (who knows what did not make the keeper video). He was responding to "rein" pressure and moving appropriately. The groom was impressed with how soft and responsive he was. So I asked him if he wanted to adopt him, but he laughed and said he couldn't afford it. I guess, yeah, that's true. He just really seems to like this horse.

OK. So. I understand 100% that this was coming from a place where the groom is just trying to be helpful. I also understand that I opened myself up to this sort of thing when I asked for his help with picking Rowan's feet. Further, I think that he thought the reason I have been doing so much groundwork with Rowan, when it's (I think from his point of view) obviously not necessary because the horse is obviously ready to be ridden, is that I'm afraid to get on him.

Which I'm actually not. I'm afraid of a lot of things, but given Rowan's personality and the amount of groundwork I was planning on him having before I got on him, I didn't anticipate any significant problems.

Anyways. I told the groom that I would ride him from now on. Maybe I should have been more firm, like "Don't get on him again." I don't know. Like I said, he was only trying to help. But I'm still fuming about it.

In other less than great news, I had thought Rowan's thrush was cleared out, but I found a pocket of it in one foot today. It is in the collateral groove at the very back (toward the heel). I dumped a ton of thrushbuster on it. I put some in the other back foot for good measure, in case I'm missing something there. I may end up ordering that cow mastitis stuff. I have never seen actual nasty black thrush before. Ick. I hate thinking about that in his foot.

I wasn't sure I was going to do anything with him today. I forgot my coffee and I was feeling very non-caffeinated. But it turns out a coffee shop opened up not too far away from the barn, so I went and got some and then I felt better.

So first of all we roundpenned with the bareback pad. I forgot I have a bulkier bareback pad so I decided to work him in this one. Whether it was because of the added bulk, or because the weather was fresh and cool after several muggy warm days, or because the groom rode him, Rowan did buck this time at the canter. They were halfhearted bucks and they petered out pretty quickly, but they were definitely bucks. So I just kept him going until he got used to it and stopped. I also had him canter over the ground pole, and he did that pretty well. He jumped it the first time, and stepped on it in a bad way the third time (I'm glad it's not a round pole), but overall he did quite well. Also he always picks up the correct lead, which is great. I mean, he has so far.

I tried long-lining him, but he didn't understand it. He was a little leery of the lines (I thought I had done a good job desensitizing him to ropes but maybe I didn't) but overall OK with it. I'm super glad we have been working on "hoooooooaaaa" because he really kind of wanted to walk off when I was getting him set up, and I hate a horse to be moving when it has lines attached to them and I'm not attached to the lines.

But we got all set up and went. He moves off fine, but he just wants to turn in a circle and face me. I had kind of forgotten that they want to do that at first. And for some reason I had done this in the middle of the round pen so I didn't have a fence to block one side. And he turned fast enough that I couldn't really get a good angle on the other rein to turn him out again. We tried it three or four times with the same result each time. So I think maybe next time we'll work on that in the regular arena, where we have a straight fence next to us.

We worked on the mounting block again. Today we got up to me swinging a leg over and bumping him on the butt. I mean, softly, of course. And I don't mean swinging it over all the way, just lifting it up to his butt, gently bumping him, and putting it back.

Ooh. And that was going to be it, but then I had the saddle out, so I thought why not, and put it on him. I have to say, I think he's not crazy about girths. Or maybe he had flies on his stomach. I did fly spray him, though.

@knightrider check out the pictures!

This is a cheapo saddle pad someone gave me. I will be buying a better one.

No real highlight today. We keep making slow and steady progress toward starting him under saddle, the groom's help notwithstanding.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

I can’t believe an employee got on your horse without permission. I’d be furious.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

I'm furious for you. Do you realize what could have happened if it hadn't been okay??? Also, what would the rescue say about strangers getting on their horse without your or the rescues knowledge???

I know it's more popular across the pond to do the first mounting inside, but too much can go wrong in a small confined space to me (especially with a horse you have ZERO actual history on!!!).

Shame on the groom, and endless shame on your BO for the continued issues you've had there. Is this the groom you were trying to help too??? This is one very good reason to keep a professional relationship with all people in the horse world, you allow them an inch and they'll always take a mile in the good word of helping out...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I have mixed feelings. I think, since you asked him to work on his feet, that he felt you were asking for help with the horse. My gut says he was truly trying to do you the best favor he could imagine. Like a little kid, who is so excited to show you what they did for you, and you are like “ooohhh… thank you.,” while you are not very happy inside. Lol

Then I tried to think of it as if I were you. If someone who wanted the best for me had gotten on Queen. I would have felt irritated for sure, and seen where they were coming from, and tried to explain why, although I was appreciative of the thought, it wasn’t something I wanted. Of course, everyone in my house knows they would be murdered for touching my filly. Lol. They also know how each of us is really protective of our training.

I wouldn’t want someone touching any young horse of mine. My husband knows that, and he’s talented with a colt, but he knows I don’t want his help unless I ask specifically for it. We do things differently.

I think you did the right thing, in explaining that you would be the one riding him. If he doesn’t understand that, and does so again, then you can go off the handle on him. It was a definite violation, but I see the opening and intention, or at least I think I do.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Yes I really think he was trying to help me out. He was so happy about it. I just... yeah... it was not the right decision on his part.

@ClearDonkey I don't blame the BO for this. I have a lot of issues with her, but she didn't know about this and I don't think she'd be very happy if she did.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I know you will not be happy with what I write, but being honest,...
I'll be different....
You have asked of that groom to step up and do for you several times...
YOU never told him feet and that's it...hands off, no more.
_*Did you? *_ 
He has helped you from the very first of leading, all the way through now...._he meant no harm.
Who do you think was handling this horse when you weren't actually present....the groom was!_
Be angry but aim that at you. Don't make that groom feel bad for giving you the knowledge the horse is _not_ a bucker, but sane with this new twist of introduced he took in stride.
Your attitude and "bristle" spoke more words than any you could of said....body English you know.
Shall be interesting to see if a change of willing that groom had with your animals, all your animals happens going forth...remember that.

And....he _*did*_ you a favor cause if the horse was a bucker it would of been him to get a rough ride saved you.
So now you don't need to be afraid and if you say you had no fear....sorry, Rowan is a complete unknown yet.
If you have/had no fear.._you should of. _
Its time to incorporate "groundwork" with work from the back...past time and you've been stalling, procrastinating and the horse is bored...he knows what he knows,_ build on it.
Refine and refresh as is needed, but move forward in keeping the brain engaged...
So now the deed of backing has been accomplished you can get astride....tomorrow in fact would be a good day since daily continuation is needed when backing and furthering the training of..._
No more excuses, everyday you now go train and further the knowledge, reinforce what the day prior lesson was...

That groom actually did you a favor, he did what you have been avoiding.....baby-steps are and were done with a bit ago and it was time the horse was backed and put to learning by someone who is versed in truly training green.
The fact is, Rowan may have been backed and ridden years ago, fell into bad hands and was abandoned when he showed he is not what was wanted .. You have no knowledge and neither does the rescue of the untold story.
You've never backed and those who do first-back also know they can can seriously banged up or worse....can you afford to get that happening to you....you made a big deal of a hurt finger......holy cow if you really got hurt
Its time to find a trainer to take Rowan further, you really need a trainer to take over and teach Rowan now....
The first few rides and next 30 days and what and how it is introduced mean a ton.
If you are determined to "train"....
I would use the knowledge the groom proudly shared with you and go forward with it.
Get that saddle a bit better setting on the back....cause that as the pictures shows will make a horse buck when pinched back/spine happen.
And maybe get the groom to work_ with you,_ you now get astride and work, but....I have a feeling your groom has *a lot* more knowledge on backing and working with freshly backed that he is letting on..
_Did you ever ask him? _
Might be a very interesting discussion to have with the man. Many a groom, has a lot more knowledge than their job shows...

That groom set the mark and expected of the horse, to reach for it and set him up for success....
You took the horse back to the round pen area and had difficulty getting the horse to succeed....
Do you see? No, probably you don't.
The groom set a reachable, obtainable goal and set for success asking nothing more than a walk around and accept weight on the back...and Rowan willingly gave.

Yes, I do see a different side to this and understand disappointment, or is it relief its been done....
I also see where that groom set up a success for Rowan to have, and bet he was praised enormously for it...
There are other ways to look at this situation that_ benefit you_ and more importantly Rowan opens a new chapter to his life...
With his now being backed, you also now _need_ to update the rescue that the horse has been backed....and make your decision of adopt or walk away cause the time has come....
Adopt him or he's going to be gone and so is your heart...
You've never sold a 1st horse or lost one....you're about to find what that kind of heartache is if you procrastinate even another day.... It will be known at your barn the horse was backed....watch, just watch and remember you have no say, no word, no comment..._nothing when someone else takes ownership.
You walk away...and Rowan walks out of your life and control of care bestowed upon him...or adopt and have a say in his life further._

My apologies but I don't see his being backed by someone the horse knows well and trusted to not hurt him done is terrible.
I see now though that you need to make decisions.
You also need to truly be honest _with you _and how much _you_ truly know how to introduce and present to a animal who you have already had some difficulties getting what you wanted understood by the animal...and you lost your temper in frustration. 
Me, if he was mine...I would be interviewing trainers who start and put the first 30 minimum to 60 days then bring him home after you are taught how to do and work going forward to find what Rowan wants to excel at...his choice, not yours to keep a willing, happy partner.
_Now ....off to my corner to read. _
🐴... _jmo..._


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I just hope the groom won't end up losing his job due to this. He was trying to be helpful and open about it, showing you the video.

I honestly hope you can inform him of this 'error' without bringing in the BO. I feel his mistake was purely innocent. Your telling him that it's not smart should be enough , IMO. He's probablly scared now that he will be fired.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

You have done a super job with Rowen and I believe you should adopt him. It will mean so much to you down the road when you and he are such a team. I wouldn't worry that much about the first person backing him. I usually use a child (a neighbor kid who has been helping or my own kid who helped) for the first backing anyway. I do think it is smart to have one person at the head and one person backing for the first time. I like the to the one at the horse's head--that's why I like to use someone small, light, and confident to climb on for the first time.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

tinyliny said:


> I just hope the groom won't end up losing his job due to this. He was trying to be helpful and open about it, showing you the video.
> 
> I honestly hope you can inform him of this 'error' without bringing in the BO. I feel his mistake was purely innocent. Your telling him that it's not smart should be enough , IMO. He's probablly scared now that he will be fired.


Oh, of course not. I should have said that. I have no intention of telling the BO. That wouldn't help anything. It would just get everyone upset.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 65*

I guess I DID convey how I was feeling to the groom when he showed me that video yesterday, even though I tried not to, because he was definitely avoiding me today. Eventually I caught up with him and said something nice and he relaxed, but I feel bad. I mean, I don't think it was my fault -- I should not have HAD to say "Don't ride my horse" to someone. But I know he meant well.

We didn't do too much new today. I'm getting a little more concerned about that thrush. Not only is there a pocket there, but the central sulcus, which looks more or less OK, feels hollow. I don't know how to explain that -- it feels like there is a layer on top and then a hole underneath. Like a drum. I can't see anything, though. And maybe that's just what a recovering frog feels like? I dumped a ton a thrushbuster in (this reminded me to order more) but I am thinking now about doing the white lightning soak. I know the fumes will really get up in there. I'm not sure if I should ask the farrier, or wait until he comes back, or do it now. I guess I'll just monitor it and see.

I sticked him. I was wrong -- he's only 15'1. I guess before I was sticking him on soft ground. Or uneven ground or something.

We round penned for exercise and to get videos. Something interesting on the way in, though. Someone was getting clipped in the main barn, which we had to walk past. Rowan couldn't see it but he could hear it and it put him on alert. Then, I had hung the saddle on the fence of the round pen, and when he saw that I guess he thought that must be the source of the noise, because he didn't want to go in (it was right next to the gate). He only needed a little coaxing to come in, though, and no sooner had I taken his lead rope off, then he was investigating it.

No bucking with the saddle pad today. I had him run a bit in both directions, and trot quite a bit, then I tied him and worked on saddling him (by tying him, I mean I looped the lead rope around where two fence panels met). I have neglected working on tying because to me it is a yucky combination of boring and dangerous. I don't typically tie my horses so I have a hard time figuring out ways to work it into our routine. He was OK with it but not really liking it. It makes me wonder how much practice he has had so far. I also need to figure out how to work tying into our daily routine.

I got the saddle on but I don't think it fits very well. Maybe it's too wide in the front? I took pictures but you can't really see anything about the fit, so I'll have to do it again.

After that I had him trot around again. My goal was to get a nice relaxed trot with regular breathing, and I did. I was happy with that.

Then we worked on mounting again. Just the same stuff, except someone reversed the mounting block so we were facing a different direction (I plan on getting him used to both sides, but I want him settled on one side first). I made a thread about him sort of sagging down when I put weigh on his back. Not a lot of weight, I thought, maybe somewhere between 20 and 40 pounds (with my hands). He didn't try to move away, though. I got up to putting my leg actually over him (without weight) and bringing it back. Actually I put it over there and held it the first couple of times, because when I did it he seemed really interested so I wanted to give him the chance to investigate it.

I am really tempted to just hop on him, but (1) I am concerned that he doesn't have a lot of musculature right now so I'm not sure that would be fair or kind to him, and (2) I am committed to taking things really slowly so that he is really comfortable with every step before I move on to the next step. Right now he's not very comfortable with the pressure on his back, and it isn't even that much pressure. I keep reminding myself that taking things slowly will be much better for him in the long run.

Here are the videos of him in the round pen. The only new thing we were really doing was to ask him to keep going after a downward transition. Historically once we started downshifting, we moved quickly to the stop, so now he's thinking that a downward transition means he will be stopping soon. He shouldn't be thinking that.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

You have improved I think!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

lots to comment on.

Video one: you are doing better to not walk in a skulking/predatory manner, but he was going so slowly that you ended up getting ahead of him at 0.14 secs in and he turned around. Your fault. Then, during the trot you did a nice job of staying more consistently behind the drive line but not too far back and having a trot on YOUR body, too! Be aware of purposeless hand movements, too. 
When I ask a horse up into a canter I try to think of how I would do it mounted. I would do a tiny bit of half halt, sit back a wee bit to 'gather ' the horse, and then think of scooping him UP into a canter. You can do the same from the ground. While he is trotting a nice free trot, you slow your walk infintismally and think of slowing your upper body , tightening your own core so that you stop falling forward, bend your knees ever so slightly so that you can scoop upward, with your hand, your body and your voice at the same time, LIFTING him up into the canter. The 'pause' to gather your own body, (and it's minute) prepares him for the change.
One reason he is anxious about the whip is that even when you are not using it, you are holding it in a slightly engaged manner. disengaged would be like dragging on the ground, at least having the tip pointed way downward and holding it more loosely.

Video 2 he is stiffer and tenser going this way. He holds his head up in a braced manner and you get a bit tenser here , too. I suggest letting him change direction more often and work into going left in short, but increasingly longer periods of time. Look for the place where he lowers his head at the trot and release all pressure. Instead of stopping him, LET him coast to a stop.

overall, you have really incorporated a lot, and if you did all that from reading stuff here, well then my hat's off to you!!!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

tinyliny said:


> but he was going so slowly that you ended up getting ahead of him at 0.14 secs in and he turned around. Your fault.


Yes, oh my gosh, this is so true and I so know it. I shouldn't have let him stay in that ploddy walk and I shouldn't have let him get behind me. And it was totally my fault that he turned.



tinyliny said:


> When I ask a horse up into a canter I try to think of how I would do it mounted. I would do a tiny bit of half halt, sit back a wee bit to 'gather ' the horse, and then think of scooping him UP into a canter.


I like this and everything that followed. I am going to re-read it and really think about it.



tinyliny said:


> One reason he is anxious about the whip is that even when you are not using it, you are holding it in a slightly engaged manner. disengaged would be like dragging on the ground, at least having the tip pointed way downward and holding it more loosely.


Yes, which is why I ended up just dropping it. He was a bit sluggish today at the start. I can't really let it drag on the ground because there are tough stemmy weed plants in there so it would just jerk around, and I don't think that would be very helpful.



tinyliny said:


> Video 2 he is stiffer and tenser going this way. He holds his head up in a braced manner and you get a bit tenser here , too.


Yes I've come to realize that is his less preferred side. It's the only way he bucked when he was cantering with the bareback pad on, and he tries to not go that way where possible. It's also Pony and Teddy's less favored direction. I know people say, well then it's your fault, and maybe it is, but I haven't even ridden him yet.



tinyliny said:


> Look for the place where he lowers his head at the trot and release all pressure. Instead of stopping him, LET him coast to a stop.


I like that idea. Like I said, he got a nice relaxed trot at the end and I was super happy with it. But I didn't think about letting him choose to end it when he was ready.



tinyliny said:


> overall, you have really incorporated a lot, and if you did all that from reading stuff here, well then my hat's off to you!!!


I did think a lot about what everyone said, for sure. And I tried to incorporate it. I also mentioned this other lady came over and I had her round pen him, and helping her with that also made me further think about what I am doing. Also Rowan is very responsive and nice, and he does a good job of letting me know how I am doing. But in a nice way.

So no one is commenting on HIM! I think he looks wonderful, and so handsome at the canter! Honestly I feel like you could make a poster out of him and little girls would put it on their walls. His movement seems really nice to me.


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## boatagor (Jun 27, 2017)

ACinATX said:


> So no one is commenting on HIM! I think he looks wonderful, and so handsome at the canter! Honestly I feel like you could make a poster out of him and little girls would put it on their walls. His movement seems really nice to me.


Adopt him! I really feel like you will regret it if you don't.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

He is getting really gorgeous. You need to keep him so I don't worry about what happened to him all his life. LOL.

Now that I see his movement better, I think he will be a lovely ride. He keeps his hooves low and puts them down close to when he picks other ones up at the trot, which makes the back move less and makes a smoother ride. When I watch his back, it doesn't seem to have a lot of up and down movement.

ETA:
Seriously, in a short time as he puts muscle on, he is going to be so beautiful that people will be jealous. No one is going to believe he was a discarded horse. I think you should get him before someone from the rescue sees him and tries to grab him for a friend, or someone starts thinking of resell value and pretends they want him but they really want to make a profit. He'll always be better off with you, even if you have to find him another home at some point later on in his life.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I made a short, not super great video for you, but I hope it will begin to help you see how to tell if a horse is going to be rough or smooth before riding them.
The first horse is Halla, and she was super rough. You'll see how she has suspension and lift before landing on the ground with each trot stride. Watch her back and you can see how it goes up and down a lot. 
The second horse is Hero, and he is much smoother. You'll see how he has a lot less suspension and his back does not go up and down as much.
The third horse is Aria, and she is butter smooth. She almost doesn't have suspension at the trot. 
In my opinion, Rowan looks like his trot will fall somewhere between Hero's and Aria's. He looks very smooth with just a little suspension.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thanks @gottatrot that is super helpful. I totally see what you are talking about now. Hallah's trot sure LOOKS gorgeous, though.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 67*

I spent a bit less than two hours out there and the only thing I really did with him was try on saddles. The rest of the time was just mucking, hooves, feeding, hay, fly spray, etc. It's amazing how long all of that takes. I guess with four horses maybe it shouldn't be THAT surprising.


*Day 68*
So the good thing is, the bodyworker didn't think he had any tenderness or soreness on his back, nor did she think he was sore or not stretching enough in the shoulders. She watched the videos and thought it was just that he doesn't have the muscles yet to extend out all the way.

But what she DID think was, he was maybe collicking.

So, to backtrack a bit. When I got there, he seemed a bit off. He's seemed a bit off the last days actually. His poop was a bit watery and he was... just off. Today he was also kicking at his stomach and swishing his tail a lot. I thought, "flies" and fly sprayed him. It got better but didn't go away. I examined his stomach for flies or cuts or anything and didn't see anything. When the bodyworker came, I was actually currying and brushing him. I say "actually" because I don't enjoy this and avoid it when possible. But I was looking to see if I could find any spot on his body where he felt sensitive. I couldn't.

The bodyworker also noticed that he seemed fidgety. He was also pawing, but I think that was because he didn't want to get worked on (at first). Then he would park out but not pee. Oh, I forgot to mention the barn owner and I had listened to his gut sounds and they were fine. The bodyworker wanted to listen as well, and she thought they were a bit faint in one quadrant. Then she noticed that he was feeling really sore on one of those quadrants -- when she would put pressure on it he would pin his ears, and he pretty much never pins his ears. And he was passing a TON of gas. On the other hand, he was eating like a starved wolf.

So it seemed like probably a mild colic, and I was thinking maybe we could just wait and see, but the bodyworker was like "This could just be the beginning of something more serious." I didn't really want to call the vet but I didn't want him to get worse either. We gave him some banamine to see. Then I called the rescue. To be honest, I wanted someone else to make the decision of whether to call the vet or not. But they just said "Do whatever you think is best."

So I called the vet's office and talked to them and explained what we had seen, and they thought it would be better for him to be seen. The great thing was, this was this vet's one day where he was actually in the area already, so they said he could be out in an hour and a half. Not bad.

So I put him in an arena to wait, so he could walk around but not eat too much. He played nipping game with the gelding that was in the little run next to it. I thought I got some really good pictures, but the pictures I got are just OK.

Then we worked on leading, because it would help with him walking and it's something we need to work on. We also went into the covered arena where I had set up some more complicated pole patterns and we did those as well. Then we went back into the main arena.

I decided to get some stuff to desensitize him. I was just trying to think of things to do to keep him moving a bit and also maybe learn something. (The banamine had kicked in by this point and he was feeling fine. Hence the nipping game.) So first of all I got the umbrella from my car. I'd been meaning to show him that for a while. So I stood next to him and opened it. Boy, you should have seen him move ----- TOWARD the umbrella! He was like, "What is that, and how can I bite it?" I couldn't believe it. The second I opened it, he just zipped right over. So I tried again. This time he was kind of like "Oh, that thing. I already bit it." But he did eventually come over.

I was going to walk him over a tarp. So I brought it out and started shaking it out. He came over to investigate and ended with it wrapped around his head, and he was perfectly OK with that. I did eventually get it out on the ground, partially. At that point, one end of it was flapping in the wind a lot, and before I could get it down he had walked over the rest of it so he could come investigate the flapping part. I then draped it over a jump standard so it would blow around a lot, and he just bit it. It's hard to desensitize a horse that isn't sensitized to begin with LOL.

Eventually the vet came. They did a basic exam and pronounced him perfectly healthy. I asked the vet if maybe I shouldn't have given him the banamine, since maybe it was masking how Rowan actually felt now. But he pointed out that they had taken all vital signs and listened to all four quadrants, and if anything there was maybe too much gut activity. He said half the time, if you give them banamine, it just clears everything right up. He figured Rowan probably had a mild gas colic, maybe due to there actually being grass out there right now (Rowan loves grass). So he won't get any feed tonight, and he'll just get a little the next few days, then it will be back to normal for him.

I told my husband after I eventually got home (I basically ended up taking almost the whole day off work for this; this is NOT how I want my days off to look LOL) that I'm worried that maybe Rowan has a sensitive digestive system and there are more colics in his future. But he said maybe it's just that he was starved and his digestive system is still recovering, and after a while he won't have problems like that any more. I hope so.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Do you have Rowan on any kind of digestive supplement? I assume a horse that has been starved has had a lack of food going through the system while having undue stress, so most likely has ulcers. When I got Aria I assume she probably had some, but they will often heal if you give an adequate roughage diet and do preventatives like making sure they have food in the gut before working them, etc. Anyway, I did put her on a digestive supplement and probiotics for a couple months when I first got her to make sure. You might consider if he has any other episodes of colic that ulcers could be the culprit.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

The supplement I give him contains "Probiotics, prebiotics, yeast, and enzymes to help maintain hindgut balance and appropriate digestion."

That's in addition to whatever is in the Triple Crown, but I don't think he gets enough Triple Crown for that to actually make a difference. Then he also gets alfalfa hay (some) and alfalfa pellets. I would think that would be helpful for ulcers. And some supplemental Magnesium, sometimes, which should help with muscles, which might also help with colic.

Should I change anything or add anything? I guess I could talk to the rescue and see if there's anything else they recommend for a recovering horse.

ETA: I might as well just list everything he gets right now. This is in addition to free choice coastal hay, and alfalfa hay once or twice a day.

Triple Crown senior, small amounts
Purina ration balancer (vit / mineral)
Alfalfa pellets
Magnesium (sometimes)
High quality Vit A and E
Flax seed (we started this last week)
SmartPak SmartCombon pellets: SmartCombo™ Pellets


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

So, I'll go a easier route possibly....

Did you change the hay roll he has been eating off of in the last few days?
Did you change baled hay or feed, or amounts of any of those?
Anything you changed adding or removing in his existence can send them on a tizzy of belly pain...

Gas colic can happen at any time and be slight or so bad they flail on the ground in agony _with_ Banamine on board already....
Till it passes, it hurts....think the worst cramps you've ever had and multiply it by 10x worse...
Horses intestinal tract is long too and till the gas works its way out...its not going to feel better.

See, this is where if you suspected gas colic that horse would of been loaded on a trailer and taken for a ride for a 1/2 hour or so....
I don't get why it works, but know it sure can help move the pains along the track faster....and give relief.
I've loaded many a horse on a truck/trailer and gone for a ride and by the time we are home the worst is done and gone, as in completely done.
The fact the horse was looking for food as if famished...when in acute pain mine_ do not_ eat!
🐴....


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Yeah... I wish I had brought the truck out yesterday but I had taken the car. I also always get mixed up with different kinds of colics -- is THIS one the kind where you should make them walk, or is it the kind where you take away their hay? I guess because I haven't gone through it before. I did put him in the arena and he did walk around a lot, and when he stopped walking around I went and walked him. But again -- is this the type of colic where you want them to move, or is it not? Ugh.

Also I didn't mention it, but since you mentioned his hay, I did go out to the small paddock where he is kept sometimes and looked at the hay that was out there, and it was very slightly moldly, at the bottom. So I put out new hay. But now I need to clean up the old hay. When they put him back out today, it should be in the big pasture.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I was told if they are quiet let them rest...if they start to look distressed, look to go down...get moving.
Colic is not over and done with in 20 minutes either.
You keep a vigilant watch for 48-72 hours after even when you think "mild" cause what created the issue is still trapped inside that encased intestinal tract and it takes hours into days to work its way out...

So, no matter the colic...
The horse is put in a large area to move around in not pestered by other animals.
If he's quiet, we leave them be...
If they want to walk they do....if they want to lay down and rest they do that too...
They do not get to roll and thrash....
If you have never force walked a horse in real distress it is heartbreaking to make them walk when they hurt so, but it is far more dangerous for them to thrash.

So we walk, we stop and rest...we walk, we sit and watch.
I have spent many a overnight sitting vigil with a horse who was in trouble with a gas colic.
I've spent many a nights vigil with a impaction colic too....neither is fun.
I've spent a few to many nights driving a horse truck headed for New Bolton Emergency trying to save a horse....and gone back later to bring that same animal home after surgery.
Then sat vigil waiting for a attending vet to get to us at the barn when a complication arose....often I spent more time vigil than the owners and thankfully, none were mine.

No feed....none!
No hay till a vet has examined...
Water we have always allowed..
Grass, green grass if the horse is feeling well enough to graze is a good sign with permission given from the attending vet.
But not out of the woods for 48 - 72 hours is what my current vet says....for such large animals they have the most sensitive digestion!
🐴..


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

I do not mean to criticize, but I’m surprised you administered banamine before calling the vet. I grew up on a horse farm and was a vet tech and still wait to administer medication until I get the ok*. I also take temperature, pulse, respiration, and check gums. Feeling feet to see if they are hot is also something you should do. You may have done this but left it out of your recap. I’m glad it worked out, but every vet I’ve worked with when I have called has asked for my horse’s vitals. @Dreamcatcher Arabians and I posted about this the other day on another thread for a different ailment. 

*In emergency I have administered medication, but Rowan’s colic did not sound extreme.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

updownrider said:


> I do not mean to criticize, but I’m surprised you administered banamine before calling the vet.


I don't think administering banamine was the wrong call. I lived remotely for 5 years. Getting a vet out was near impossible in an emergency, and getting someone on the phone could be just as hard. Decisions had to be made without a vet in most emergencies.

If Rowan was truly in the early stages of gas colic, the situation could have escalated quickly from just an uncomfortable horse to a thrashing horse. He was showing signs of discomfort, and an equine professional (the body worker) agreed with AC's decision to administer banamine. I don't think this decision is something worth arguing back and forth over - there is a reason why most horse owners should have banamine on hand and this is one of those situations. I think it was a good call.

From the manufacturer website: "Flunixin (banamine) treats pain. By far the most common implication for the use of flunixin in horses is analgesia, or pain control. Flunixin provides good pain control for visceral (in the belly) and ocular (eye) pain. It is often used in cases of colic (abdominal pain) to make the horse more comfortable which reduces the risk of harm to the horse and handlers. It is important to note that flunixin does not cure the cause of colic; it temporarily relieves signs by providing pain relief."

The website says banamine _should be_ administered under veterinary guidance but IMO, enough experience around horses gives you a really good idea when banamine is a good idea and will be effective and when it won't be. 

In an ideal world, a vet will always be a phone call away. In the real world, the number of vets is dwindling and those that will do emergency calls at anytime is even more few and far between.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

updownrider said:


> I do not mean to criticize, but I’m surprised you administered banamine before calling the vet. I grew up on a horse farm and was a vet tech and still wait to administer medication until I get the ok*.


Yeah, I was second guessing that myself afterwards, which was why I asked the vet about it. He said it was fine.

In the future, if no horse professional were around, I would call the vet first and let them tell me whether to administer it or not. Maybe I should have done that this time, IDK. Also in the future I need to have my own banamine, because I had to use the barn owner's. Like I said, I've never dealt with a colic before. I was definitely not prepared. I'm glad it was mild.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

The diet seems great to me. If he does have ulcers, I suspect they would be starting to heal up by now, and hopefully already have. Since he has a good appetite, and is gaining weight, those are also good signs. 

Gas colic can be major to where it stops everything from moving through the system, but also can be so minor that it's just simply gas pain like we might have after eating certain foods. A horse I knew would have bad pain when she ate dandelions, but it would last only about ten minutes until she passed a large amount of gas, and then all symptoms would resolve and she'd be fine. For such a short episode I'd suspect he just ate a weed or something that didn't agree with him. 

The horse who would have that gas buildup also did not move around much, due to hoof issues, and I suspect that contributed to her episodes. Rowan does not have that problem.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

In general, I spend a lot of time second guessing myself. But I'm pretty OK with what I did yesterday. Even before the bodyworker came, I felt like something was off and I examined him as best I could. After what she saw, we decided to administer Banamine. Then I called the vet and they decided that Rowan should be seen and they came and saw him. I don't think I could have done a lot better, given that I had never encountered that situation before.

I've been reading up about colic, and for something that is this serious there isn't a lot of information. I mean, there is, but it's all quite short and basically just says the same things. At least what I've found so far. I guess my lesson is to get some banamine from the vet next time he's out and be ready to administer it, after calling them, if this happens again. I'll be better prepared then.

My only problem is, I'm left not knowing exactly what caused it, and thus maybe how to prevent it in the future. I guess I will just keep a little closer eye on him in the future.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I was told do not leave in the barn where it can freeze...
Not sure about the paste cause we know paste can freeze or be really tough to push through the tube too...

_Are you good giving injections or are you going to do oral administering and can you handle doing the deed alone?_
Sounds like you often are alone at the barn since you seldom refer to your daughter helping with daily chores for her Moonshine and the other horses...
🐴...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

We actually were told to stop injecting and instead do the paste or even oral the injection. See, it can cause massive ulcer issues. My parents lost a very good and proven horse a couple years ago. He spent a month in a veterinary hospital, only to come home and die anyways. Too much had gone wrong with him in the original colic and getting cast and thrashing creating a head fracture and air getting into his body… when they scoped him he was full of ulcers. They said it was due to the injecting of banamine.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@horselovinguy I'd do what I did this time and just squirt it into his mouth. Without the needle obviously. The vet said it was just as effective that way, it just takes longer to start working.

@Knave that's interesting about the ulcers. Actually it's kind of weird. I could see how giving it orally could cause ulcers since it would go straight into the digestive tract, but I have a hard time understanding how injecting it could cause ulcers. I will have to look into that. Maybe I won't be quite so casual about using it then.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> I'd do what I did this time and just squirt it into his mouth. Without the needle obviously. The vet said it was just as effective that way, it just takes longer to start working.
> *Maybe I won't be quite so casual about using it then.*


I know you don't mean it this way but...._*drugs of this type or any should never be administered lightly.*_
There is a consequence the animal has and pays for anything we give them other than good hay.
All those supplements fed to them, they all have a consequence as do actual drugs.
Granted some are positives, but not always and you don't always see the consequence unless you do a necropsy and biopsy of certain tissues and organs.

Years ago I assisted with a necropsy.... the horse was long-time bute given.
It was a eye opener to see the guts and the damages that drug did over long-term exposure.
I've seen a few necrocpsy done, the being done is not pleasant but the learning you can get from it is mind-blowing what we do keeping our horses "healthy" backfires many times...
I've seen human autopsy too...what the human body tells of the persons health just on a visual inspection is "  "

Never forget anything we give_ has a result the animal reacts to_. 
Sometimes positive, but absolutely not when abused.
All those "herbal" give this or that....they too have a result on the body often the animal pays a hefty price for you being so good to them.... Because its "herbal" does_* not*_ mean it is safe...hence herbal often is not regulated. Read labels very carefully.
And the other one all of us need to keep in your mind....
*What are you going to do if a adverse reaction happens?*
What have you got in your arsenal at the ready to combat a serious, deadly reaction to something....
We've all heard of allergic reactions....they're out there folks...and deadly if you happen to hit the day of sensitivity that was not present last week!!
Be very careful of what you give, why and who is the administerer of said good-intentions.
🐴... _jmo..._


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I kind of have a different view @horselovinguy. Mine may be born of necessity, but vets don’t come and help in emergencies here. You are on your own, unless you happen to catch them on the perfect day, they expect you to handle such things.

So, I find knowing both sides of the drug as important. Banamine to shut down a true colic is something I wouldn’t hesitate on, although I would hesitate to inject how. In a heavy colic weighing my odds I would use the banamine as an injection, but knowing it is likely a life or death scenario in either. Less dramatic colics I will simply walk, or maybe even not that depending on the way they are acting, and what I feel brought it on.

Yet, we do have the epinephrine to counter allergic reactions. Lol. We have to have these things! We have to do things semi regularly that are life and death.

I imagine most people’s lives are different though. Probably in a lot of places a vet will be available during an emergency?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 69*

I went out there to put their turnout sheets on this morning. I thought I had timed it well -- get there before it rains so I don't have to wait for them to dry, but not too soon because then I just have to wait. I was wrong. I ended up waiting probably two hours. At least I was able to take a meeting from the barn, for once (phone reception out there is terrible). And of course I did the normal horse chores. 

Finally I was like, the stupid cold front is never going to get here, so let me work with Rowan in the round pen a bit. And I'll put Moonshine's saddle on him again and take more pictures. And maybe just round pen him at the walk with it on. I tried the saddle on in his stall, with Teddy's old girth, and the girth fit luckily.

So I took it out there and took him out, and walked him around a few laps then trotted a few. Then I "tied" him again to put the saddle on. And then, at that very moment, the cold front showed up.

But it was fine, really. He was fine. The mares in the next pasture all started trotting in toward the barn, but he just watched them. I guess it was me who was not fine. This was going to be a strong cold front and I wasn't sure how he'd react so I took him back to his paddock so I could get his turnout sheet on.

So I had practiced almost the whole thing of getting it on, but I'm not sure if it was my body language or he just didn't like it, but I had a hard time getting the front buckles on. It doesn't help that every year I forgot how turnout sheets work. I should have put the other ones' on first, but I didn't think about it. Basically he just kept scooting back. Like I said, was my hurry and annoyance plus me putting pressure on his chest making him back up? Quite possibly. Anyways, we got it on. I don't think he's thrilled about it, but I think he'll get over it. Now that it's 55 and dropping, and windy, and pouring down rain, hopefully he appreciates it a bit more.

These are the pictures I took of him in the saddle. I wanted to take more, and a video, but I didn't. Also him looking less than thrilled (IMO) in his turnout sheet.

ETA: one thing I'm gonna say is, if this saddle is a good fit for now and I end up using it, I'm darn sure going to get a seat saver for it. It is NOT a comfy saddle.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

The saddle doesn't look bad now. I wouldn't have a problem with sitting in it and seeing if he seemed comfortable. 
As long as the panels in the back are far enough apart there is room for his spine. That is one issue I've had with older saddles - making the horse sore because the panels sit too close to the sides of the spine in the rear. 
Not the best pic, but basically the horse will bend and the panels will put pressure on the spine. With a rider in the saddle, this causes soreness.









If this is what you're starting him in I'd throw a grab strap on the front in case he throws in some crow hopping or bucks. It sounds like he won't be likely to, if you keep preparing him.  But moving into faster gaits for the first time, it's always a possibility. 
He looks cute in his sheet!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

gottatrot said:


> I've had with older saddles - making the horse sore because the panels sit too close to the sides of the spine in the rear.


That's exactly what I was trying to say. The channel is narrow. And yes this is an older saddle. I feel like some time in the past I had a saddle fitter fit it to Moonshine and she said I was lucky Moonshine has a fairly narrow spine, because the channel on the saddle was narrow as it was an older saddle.

I didn't get to taking a picture of the saddle from the back this time.

I really hope it fits or is at least good enough. I'm starting to realize that it may not be the best idea to try to buy a saddle for a foster horse, and even dumber to buy one for a foster horse that's still changing shape a lot. But OTOH he needs a saddle because at some point he needs to be ridden in a saddle. Even if I started him bareback, which I don't think I would.

It is wool flocked, so if it fits him OK I could see about getting it reflocked for a better fit. Although again I kind of hesitate because then he will just change shape again, and the lady who reflocks saddles charges like $150 per reflocking.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 70*

I hope this isn't becoming a habit. I didn't do anything with Rowan today. When I got there it was cold and windy and I just didn't want to. 

The rescue org sent someone for an inspection today. She just needed to take pictures of him basically. So I took off his turnout sheet (without shocking him -- yay; this was his first time having his sheet taken off) and then put it back on when she was done. He was better about it being put on today. But something about that sheet just isn't right on him. It looked weird yesterday and today it kept twisting to one side. 

The inspector thought he would be a very adoptable horse.

He was gassy again today. I don't know, could it be that he's just naturally gassy and I never noticed? He didn't seem to be in any distress, and everything that I could observe was normal. Maybe he was a bit "meh" feeling, but if so it was just a bit. I wonder if I was meh feeling and he picked up on that, or if he was meh feeling and I picked up on that and it's why I didn't do anything with him today.

Maybe at the least I should have turned him out in the arena for a bit. We got a lot of rain yesterday and his paddock is just mush so they brought him in last night or this morning, probably this morning because his stall was mostly clean. And there's no question about turning him out into the big pasture -- the barn owner does not want any horses out in that pasture when it's muddy because she wants it to be her riding pasture and doesn't want the ground all torn up.

If I go too long and somehow just never get around to working with him, I will have to give him up. He's young and probably ridable and needs someone to work with him. I'm not saying that is happening, just that is crossed my mind because both yesterday and today I didn't really do anything with him. IDK, I guess yesterday I tried.

The trainer is coming out next Thursday. So I'll have to do something with him then LOL. I have to think about what exactly I want to work on with her. I sent her a list a couple of weeks ago when we made this appointment, but it was a pretty long list and it probably needs narrowing down a bit.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Your sheet....you said something bothers you but you don't know what or why.
I strongly suggest when in future, buy sheets with shoulder gussets as it will give material stress relief and make him more comfortable. YOur blankets would benefit from the gussets too and make your animals more comfortable, reduce rubs and have your equipment not need repairs for torn as often.
Shoulder relief gussets in a sheet/balnket would appear as...






















This is a pleat that allows freedom of shoulder motion.
A fleece pad at the wither area also helps the sheet sit at and on, not dig into the juncture might help with the fit too.
This sheet is a more straight shoulder cut design and very closed front and that might not be something you are accustomed to seeing. 
Although it covers the body itself, when coupled with Rowans build a size larger might actually fit him better. To me, .... if this were my horse he would be trying a size larger to see if it fits him better.
🐴... _jmo..._


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@horselovinguy that might be it. Although I had the exact same sheet (different size) for Teddy and it always fit fine and never slid around. I've already started looking at different turnout sheets, though. I've transitioned my own three to the SmartPak turnout sheets, as the ones I have have held up for a long time. Plus the price is good.

*Day 71*

It was just as cold as it was yesterday, but today the sun was out and there was no wind, so it felt much nicer. I did work with Rowan. Not a lot -- we had extra chores today, including unloading hay and pellets, stacking pallets, and moving the moldy hay from next to his paddock to the compost piles. I really liked everyone's suggestion to use is as mulch, but I couldn't figure out how to get it home, as my truck bed doesn't have a cover and the hay is loose.

Also that paddock is super muddy so I couldn't turn him out there today. But the groom turned another horse out on that big back pasture, and I asked him if that was OK and he said yes, so I turned Rowan out there at the end.

All we did was roundpen. And obviously leading back and forth. It is amazing how much mental energy you have to put into things when you are training someone. When I lead him, he needs to always be in the same spot relative to me. And paying attention to me. Whereas with my own horses, I don't really care where they are, or even if they are exploring my hand with their lips, as long as they are with me. But he's a young horse and he needs clarity, so every time I lead him I am constantly thinking about how he's doing.

Same with the round pen. Today my focus was on two things: (1) achieving relaxation and (2) working him with the saddle on for the first time. Which really aren't very compatible when you think about it. I was sloppy and unclear in the roundpen, and thus so was he. It is HARD to be mentally focused for long periods of time! One thing he's been doing lately is falling in. So today I got my long lunge whip and put a lot of pressure on his shoulder. It helped as long as the pressure was there, but then he'd fall in again. One kind of funny thing, at one point he was really falling in so I was getting closer and closer to him with the stick part of it (it is quite a long whip) and I thought he would eventually respond to that, but this time he didn't. So I ended up poking him in the shoulder. I don't think either of us actually expected that to happen. I thought he'd move back out and I guess he didn't think the whip could poke him. He was like "YIKES WHAT THE HECK" but then he stayed out LOL.

We didn't achieve relaxation, but we did get a good regular trot where I could hear his breathing on the steps, if that makes sense. That was without the saddle. I did a saddle sandwich, with no saddle work first, then saddle work, then back to no saddle work. That last bit was when we got the good breathing trot.

He wasn't too enthusiastic today, which I thought was odd since he's been in a stall for 24 hours. You'd think he'd be happy to get to work. But I watched another horse that had been stalled even longer get turned out to the arena. He cantered for about five seconds, stopped, rolled, and then just wandered around. So IDK. Anyways because I wasn't feeling like pushing him, I only cantered him long enough for him to stop bucking (each way). I'm including a video of the bucking. I'm happy to report that he's not a very good bucker. I posted elsewhere asking if Moonshine's saddle fits him, or at least good enough: Does Moonshine's saddle fit Rowan (pictures! videos!)

"bucking": 




The trainer is coming back on Thursday and I will ask her to see if she can help me get him in a better frame, or more relaxed, or using his muscles better, in the roundpen. 

We also did a little slow backing up and leading in the roundpen. And reinforcing of "hoooooaaa". Also, he doesn't have much of a winter coat at all, BUT he did fuzz up quite a bit when I took his sheet off to work him, so I spent probably more time than needed just sort of rubbing against him. I love rubbing fuzzy horses (and ponies obviously) He's gotten a lot more tolerant of this. Or maybe his tolerance is the same but he now understands that he is supposed to stand still while I do it.

He has gotten a nice smell! It's not one I have smelled on a horse before. It's horse, but sort of faint and "clean" somehow. Maybe as if there was a slight hint of wildflowers in the sort of normal horse smell?

One thought I had, and I'm not sure how I feel about it, is Rowan may be becoming more of a one-person horse rather than being super friendly with everyone. Again, maybe he was a bit off yesterday, but this lady who came out to do the inspections had a really nice way with horses, but he never gave her his really nice "I'm so happy to see you" face. The one I always get.  And when my daughter held him the other day, he was kind of "meh" about it. I'm sure he still loves the groom though, since he's the one who does most of the feeding LOL.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Well, adding an interesting wrinkle in my mental back and forth about getting a saddle for him, my work sent me an email and said they owed me $750 and will put it in my next paycheck.

Hmm. Hmm hmm hmm.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> Although I had the exact same sheet (different size) for Teddy and it always fit fine and never slid around.


Rowan is not Teddy, nor is he Pony nor Moonshine....
Rowan is Rowan and what fit the others and "worked well", does not in this case.
Rowan is a horse in a horses body, not a pony in disguise and it can make a difference.
Yes, he needs a different cut and pattern for _his_ sheet and blanket.

That sheet looks tight a fit for his body to me.....it may be "Teddy" plus-sized but its _not_ Rowan sized.

So with "saddle shopping" and it being on your Rowan journal my guess is _*Rowan is staying?*_
*Have you made it official with paperwork completed?*
You're going to find that some tack and equipment may be transferable, but not much in reality and Rowan* is* a horse, _not_ a "large" pony and there is a difference in many things horse versus pony although many don't get that, its truth.
_So....can I offer congratulations on officially taking on another and a welcome to Rowan ???_
 🐴.....


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@horselovinguy I don't know! Ugh I just don't know. I wish now that he weren't such a nice horse. Kind of. I don't know. I still keep trying to "sell" him to everyone. I worked on the vet and his assistants when he came out. I worked on the lady who did the inspection. She actually said she might know someone who might be interested, so I sent her a bunch more pictures. But then I kind of wanted to cry. And then I thought, I still haven't reached out to my jousting instructor. I liked how he treated his horses, and Rowan would look so handsome doing jousting. He's a great size for it, too.

I think the best thing for me, and probably what will end up happening, is I'll have him for a few more months before I have to make a decision. Maybe if it turns out that he does have a very sensitive digestive system, I will have an easier time passing him on. At my barn, I just cannot count on consistency of feed, stall / pasture time, hay... anything.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Here is something that surprised me. I chose not to keep a puppy for the reasons I mentioned to you prior. Then the man who had pick of the litter found himself a registered dog he wanted instead. He didn’t let us know this until all dogs were chosen, and husband had already made his pick.

We had chosen not to get attached to Scar, because he was claimed from the get go, but to be honest he was close to if not my very favorite pup. So, there he suddenly was with no home, and again I had the option of keeping not only a pup, but my favorite pup. He wasn’t just neat in personality, but also in looks.

Anyways, I had decided to keep him (with a lot of weird guilt and hesitation attached) when I thought of one person I needed to offer him to. This was the single person that I would be really happy for him to go with, as this family would not only work him, but also provide a better life than I would. I love how they treat their animals.

To my shock they wanted him. They needed him. I thought I would feel sad, but when they took him this weekend I felt nothing more than satisfied and joyful. Husband later said “this itself is a lot more fulfilling than I expected it to be.”

That was exactly it! The photo I received of the older recently widowed friend who was needing a dog for work and a companion melted my heart. There this hard woman was, looking at the puppy in her lap with such adoration. It is fulfilling each time thus far. Three puppies have gone to their homes, and I have felt such joy over each meeting.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 73*

Another cold day and wimpy me. It's been wet, so he's been in his stall for at least 24 hours if not 36. It was nasty. I cleaned it all out. At least his stall is 20 feet long (it's a double) so he can move around a bit. But he's turned into one of those horses that, when stalled, poop and pee in the same general area and then stomp it all into the bedding. So I had to replace half of his bedding today.

The one thing I did was something I've been thinking I need to do for a few weeks, but I've been scared to be honest. The thing is, put him and Pony in an enclosure together and see if they can get along. Which is scary because Pony has been quite clear that he would kill Rowan if given the chance, but I needed to know if that was bluff or not. If they are incapable of getting along, it's another thing that would make it easier for me to give him up.

It was a good day for it because Rowan obviously needed some exercise and Pony was actually quite "up" when he came in today, kicking and bucking and running around (even though he has an entire pasture to do that in LOL).

At first, it was a little bad. Rowan trotted up to Pony happily ("let's play!") and Pony just turned and bit him on the withers. Then he wouldn't let go. I was still there at that point so I yelled at him and he stopped.

However, after that, I'd say 95% of their interaction was play, and most of that was initiated by Rowan. Pony, dare I say it, actually seemed to have a really good time. They were both ears-up-tails-up running around like crazy. Pony can TAKE OFF when he wants to! Wow! There was one almost accident when Rowan almost ran into the mounting block, but other than that they were fine. That arena is deep sand so their sudden starts and stops didn't hurt anything, even though it was a bit wet. Not very wet -- mostly that arena runs off into the small paddock where I wish he could be today, but the paddock was a swamp.

I really wish I had taken some videos. They both seemed to be having a really good time. They got lots of exercise!

I will say when I started to come back, Pony did see me and he did lunge at Rowan in a nasty way, but he was too tired to move more than a few feet LOL. After that, Pony stood at the gate asking to be let out so I let him out.

Overall, what I get from this is that they CAN get along. I think Pony could get over having to be a jerk when I'm around.

ETA two thoughts:
(1) Is it something about Pony's shorter legs making him more stable? I mean, he can MOVE! He can just absolutely take off, he can corner, he can get down in the sand and just move like crazy. He can slam on the brakes, too. Man, he can take a corner like you wouldn't believe.
(2) If / when I do this again, I will take off their turnout sheets and I WILL video it. Rowan had some more of that nice big high-action trot I only saw once, when the trainer round penned him. I'd really like to get a video of that.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 75*

It seems like Rowan has been in his stall for the past two days. I'm not too happy about that. I might talk to the barn owner and see if I can try him in the pony pasture, as those guys are out 24/7. Oh, right, I just remembered I don't want him out there until his feet are better. Someone, either Pony or S, will run him around a lot the first time he gets turned out there, and I don't want that happening right now, as part of the pasture is quite rocky. So I guess I just need to suck it up. I did put him out in the big pasture at the end of today since the other horses got put out there also.

The barn owner was supposed to get 26 more round bales, but she didn't. So she switched their hay again. I don't know how more horses out there haven't colicked -- it's like they are on one kind of hay for a week, then she runs out and just switches them to another, and then again and again.

He was fine, today -- his normal happy self. The trainer came. She was really impressed with how much he has learned. We didn't spend as much time as I would have liked with him (well, I chose to ask her to give me a lesson on Pony first so it's my own fault) but we did several things.

In the roundpen, work on having a better walk and a better trot. I had asked her about him using his body better and she said a better trot would help. He's actually pretty easy to get into a better trot -- I just increased my own energy a bit. Same for the better walk. We did that enough so that I knew what I was looking for when I do it myself.
We put a bridle on him! She took off everything except the headstall and throatlatch. I didn't even realize the crown piece could come off LOL. So she had me put it on him like a halter, where I undid the buckle on one side, put the other piece over his head, put the bit in, and then buckled it. I actually worked with him a little this morning before she came to remind him about taking a bit, and he remembered just fine. So he knew what to do when I put the bit in front of his lips, which was great. He did want to chew it a lot, and he was making some kind of confused faces, but he was really pretty OK with it. I had hoped to use Teddy's old bridle, but it was way too small so we used Moonshine's
She long-lined him a little. She worked on turns. I admitted to her that I am kind of afraid of ropes, so she said what we'd do instead is just use the one line like a lunge line and work on the turns with just that one line attached. That was definitely enough for me. The turn is where you stop the horse, then drape the line down their body to their butt, like where a breeching would go if you were driving them, then continue all the way around until you've got them wound up like the kind of top that came with string. Then you put pressure on them and they unwind and end up facing you. He was fine with that. She told me to keep working on this until we're comfortable, and then she will come back out and start us on two lines.
She thought about me mounting him today, just to see. So I got my helmet and brought him out there and had him stand still at the mounting block. I was hyper focused on where he was standing and that he was standing still, and didn't notice that his head popped up every time I got to the top step of the mounting block. So that ended up being all we worked on there. He still didn't really stop popping it up. I don't remember him doing that before, but it's possible I hadn't noticed. It's also possible that the groom riding him, or me putting pressure on his back before, created some worry around it. Regardless, we'll work on that until he's calm about it. She showed me a better way to put weight on his back. We also discussed using the saddle, since that would distribute the weight better. She thought it was possible I had put too much weight in one small place when I tried it before.
She said this time she'd like to come back sooner rather than later. She also said she thinks Rowan has gained enough weight that I can get on him if I want. Like, I don't need to obsess about rounpenning him all the time just to put muscle on him. She said at a walk she figured it would be fine.

Oh, I forgot to mention I gave him a little feed today and he pinned his ears and made to kick with a back leg. I don't think it was aimed at me, probably it was aimed at Moonshine (he wasn't really looking at me) but I then stood there with his feed and didn't give it to him until he was acting polite again. I have been really conscientious about how I feed him -- every time I feed him, I go in there and make him back up. Then he has to wait until it's poured. Then I have to tell him he can eat it. So I'm not TOO worried about this one occurrence. But I'm going to keep an eye on it. Manners around feeding are something that is non negotiable for me.

Oh, and another thing, he wasn't too great about picking up his feet today. He just didn't want to give them. And then actually he wanted to kick his bad foot again. So after I was done picking them out and doing some other chores, I came back and we worked on it some more. He got better about it. I think the signal I'm using to ask isn't clear to him.

The trainer will give me a homework list after she gets back to her place.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I'll just say that I personally would have low expectations for good behavior with a young horse being kept in a stall. It wasn't clear if he had some turnout time before working on training, but if not, I'd say he may have an exceptional temperament. Even with some exercise, that's a lot of pent up energy for a horse his age, and I'd assume some might find its way out in behaviors that he could have difficulty controlling. It seems to be working out so far, but I'll point out this out in case you are working with other horses in the future, that it would be rather unusual. 

If he does start acting ramped up, not wanting to stand still or walk quietly, seeming to ignore cues, I'd suggest evaluating if he is being asked to do these things after being kept in, and that for many horses it would be setting them up to fail. It's quite possible he is lower energy at the moment while healing from malnutrition, and that he may not tolerate this in the future. So bear it in mind if his training appears to "go downhill" at some point, it might be that he is learning fine, but needs an outlet for energy to focus.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thank you @gottatrot I considered turning him out in the arena for an hour while I waited for the instructor, but it looked like he hadn't had much to eat either, at least he barely had any hay in his stall, and I thought it might be better to let him eat. I was also kind of expecting worse behavior. He's such a good boy. 

Although I forgot to mention I smacked him today. He was wanting a treat and he started pawing and he (very lightly) pawed me on the leg. I don't think he meant to hit me. So I said "NO" firmly and lightly smacked him on that shoulder. Speaking of how good he is LOL. I wrote before how I felt bad when I smacked him last time, but I didn't feel bad about this one. Making contact like that with a human is just not acceptable.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 76*

Two and a half hours I spent out there and what did I do with Rowan? Essentially nothing. His and Moonshine's stalls were disgusting (it's what I get for not doing them yesterday, although I did think that since I am paying for partial stall board for her now that maybe someone else would clean her stall out every now and then). Then rebedded them. Gave everyone hay and then more hay. Feet. Feed. Put turnout sheets back on. More hay. Water. Salt licks. How does that take two and a half hours??? I hope I can get more efficient when I bring them home.

He was a LOT better about me putting his turnout sheet on today. Too bad after I put it on I found a big scary spider on it. So I took it off, shook out the spider, and put it back on again. He is also getting better about hugs. I will go ahead and admit this -- I'm going to make him accept a hug, just like my own horses, and out of all the things I have asked him to do, this is the ONE thing where I'm rewarding him with a cookie. That's right. The ultimate reward. And for what? Something important to his or my safety? A foundational piece of training? No. A hug. Well. Now you all know what sort of a person I am LOL.

It was 55 but cloudy and supposed to drop more overnight. It also might rain. The groom was kind of shocked when he saw me putting Rowan back out into the pasture. He was like "But it might rain!" So I pointed out that Rowan has a turnout sheet on. There's lots of trees out there, too. No manmade shelters, unfortunately. I did tell him if it's still raining tomorrow, to put him in the paddock instead. I prepped the paddock with plenty of hay in the shelter so Rowan can just stand around all day and eat if he wants.

Speaking of turnout sheets, his new one was waiting when I got home. Too bad it didn't come before I left. But I can put it on him Sunday (we'll be gone tomorrow). I think it will fit him a lot better.

Before I went out there, I was feeling really anxious. Not about anything in particular -- it was purely hormonal. It wasn't even trying to find a thing to be anxious about, it was just there making me feel terrible. But whether it was the chores or the horses or both, I realized when I left that I felt just really calm and quiet. 

One last thing -- maybe I need to take some pictures, but I feel like Rowan may have stopped gaining weight. I have cut back his feed a bit, and with him being in that pasture all the time he probably isn't eating as much hay. I'll keep an eye on it. If he really is dropping weight, I'll have to figure out how to address that.


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm sure you are aware of this, but I would be careful how much you cut back on his feed. Actually I probably would not cut back personally. He needs to be a good weight going into winter. Especially with all the issues he's had, and all the effort you've given getting him healthy.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Yes. I need to figure out which of the variables I maybe need to change back:

More feed (senior feed and/or alfalfa pellets)
More alfalfa hay
Putting him back in the small paddock where he can be by himself with a round bale of coastal hay, half the day or maybe at least a few hours a day
Having him stalled for longer (with hay in front of him). In a stall, he just parks himself in front of that hay and starts munching. And he doesn't stop.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I vote for alfalfa, because of the higher protein and also calcium. Great for horses rebuilding and digestive health. Which still being long stemmed is much better for digestive health than pellets, even roughage based pellets.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 78*

I'm glad I went out there today. He was in his stall again and almost out of hay and didn't have too much water either.

I did do a few things with him. First of all, I rasped his front feet. I pulled the toes back and rolled them. I just couldn't stand it any more, how long they were getting. I would have liked to have done it from the top, with the stand, but I don't quite trust him for that yet. I didn't take off as much as I would have liked, because of that. Also his hooves are HARD! Which is amazing considering how wet it's been now. Hopefully once his feet recover he will have really good feet. He was very good about picking up and keeping up his feet, though. And I just did it in short bursts, so we got a lot of practice at picking up his feet. He got a lot better at it. And, I even found that I trusted him enough that I knelt on the ground next to him and rested his foot on my leg, like I do with the others. This is a horse that wouldn't pick up his feet when I got him!  

I also worked on bridling. I guess he's going to end up like Pony, where he just bridles himself. Because I'm pretty much a spaz at it so right now I'm basically just holding the bit somewhere near his mouth and asking him to pick it up himself. He's doing great with that. I am still doing it like the halter, where I unbuckle it on one side, then ask him to take the bit, then buckle it on the other side. I went and got a new bridle today (the trainer said the old one was too tight around his ears, which is why we took the crownpiece off, even though lengthwise it is OK). I got one size up so it should be OK, I hope.

I put him and Pony in the arena again, since it seemed like he had been in his stall for at least 24 hours, but aside from Pony lunging at him a a couple of times, they didn't really interact. And then Pony stood there at the gate of the arena with a pathetic look on his face ("Let me out of here, pwease hooman wady!") so I let him out.

I tried something with Rowan, though. I've had him for almost three months now but didn't really feel confident enough before. I let him out to free graze in the front area. I thought it might encourage him to move around a little. It did, for about five minutes, and then he came back to the barn and just wanted to explore all the stuff he hadn't been able to smell and mouth before. I let him do that for a few minutes and then put him back in his stall.

I put on his new turnout sheet! I think it fits him so much better! It has the cutaway at the withers. It's also heavier, and it has the criss-cross style of back straps. The one I got before had the single back strap that goes under their tail, which I wanted because I felt like he was maybe still a little protective about his hind end. But I got this one on him no problem.

Tomorrow the bodyworker is coming back out. Hopefully she'll have a better session with him than last time (the colic time).

ETA: I just looked at the pictures of him with the bridle on. He looks like a real horse now!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Hmm, I just realized that while I pulled his toes back I didn't do anything with his heels. Moonshine's feet get long too, and whenever I pull the toes back I also rasp the heels back a bit. Now that he's better about holding his feet, maybe I will take some pictures of them from the bottom so I can think about what exactly I need to do to him, for now. I am not sure if I didn't pull his heels back because I just didn't think of it at all, or did I subconsciously think they didn't need it?

I'll definitely talk to the farrier also.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 79*

I spent a lot of time this morning getting hay, but I'm glad I did (details here: Me + Three). The barn owner ran out of coastal hay, and although she's had some that is going to come "very soon" for over a week now, this hay has not yet materialized. Yesterday was the last day there was coastal hay, and even then there wasn't much. With Rowan maybe having a sensitive stomach, I felt like I needed him to stay on the same kind of hay. Now I have like half a ton of it! Literally! And it's in a nice dry spot where I can just peel off what I need and feed it like that, rather than a lot of it getting wasted. So we'll see how this works out. It's only my second time to get a round bale. Like I said in my other thread, having that big bale of hay in my barn, nice and dry and safe, gives me that warm fuzzy feeling! My horses are taken care of! 

The bodyworker came for Rowan. It took him a while to settle, but once he did he really had a nice time. Particularly when she worked on his head. He's a bit sensitive around there, so she was happy to be able to do it today. He had a LOT of releases, mostly huge yawns. The yawns were so huge that I wished I had made the nose part of his halter looser. 

Other than that, all I did was haul hay and muck his stall. I turned him out into the grassy area again for a bit. Then I brought him in and he seemed like he wanted to do some learning activity, and I was just about to do one when she showed up.

Tomorrow looks to be a nicer day, so I'll do something with him.* I also left him in his stall today. I couldn't make up my mind whether to put him in the small paddock, which was once again all swampy, or leave him in the stall. Tomorrow he'll need to go out regardless -- he's been cooped up too much lately.

* Well, hopefully. My daughter came down with something pretty bad this morning, and I guess it depends on if I catch it or not. That's part of why I was happy to get the round bale -- now if I get sick, it will be very easy for the groom to give Rowan all the hay he needs, and the proper hay also.

ETA I forgot to mention I got him a shimmable saddle pad. It comes with pockets and a variety of shims already in it, so you just take out the ones that you don't need. So I'll play around with it a bit and see if I can figure out the best configuration to work with him and Moonshine's saddle.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 80*

Yeah her hay has still not materialized. She claims she's getting it for $135 a bale (round bale) delivered. So now I'm pretty skeptical of the whole thing. Either she has had a miscommunication (or probably multiple miscommunications) with the hay person, or the hay person is blowing her off because she thinks she is getting it super cheap, or the hay is going to be terrible. At least that's my thoughts.

Anyways, we did some things today. Not a lot. I think being in a stall for several days is getting to him, and he had a hard time focusing.

Backing up, I did put him in the arena with one of his gelding friends when I got there. The friend was already there, and I asked the barn owner if it would be OK to put Rowan there also, and she said yes. They played a little but mostly just walked around looking bored. At least they were walking around. Then they both went to different gates and made sad "I want to come out" faces. I don't get it. Wouldn't you WANT to have some running around time with your friend after you'd been cooped up in a stall for days?

OK. But he still did have a hard time getting focused. His leading wasn't the best. It was perfectly fine, but I am still having high standards for leading, and it didn't meet those standards. Then he had a hard time focusing on even a single request. Now, to be fair, and to back up again, here's what was going on. Some little girl was riding Pony in that arena. And I thought, finally, this is my chance to have Rowan in the same arena where someone else is cantering, to make sure he is OK with that. You might recall that historically he would start running around even if someone in an arena NEXT to him was cantering. But I felt like he should be able to focus on me and my requests now, and prioritize that thought.

And he did. He was a bit slow at first, but I was only asking for really easy things that he can do without much thought -- backing up one step at a time and moving forward one step at a time. We also worked a little on turning his head, which was actually harder, as he wanted to turn it to see what Pony was doing, rather than turning it as I asked.

But the big point is, after being a bit looky at first, he quickly realized that just because someone else is running around in the same arena, doesn't mean he has to. So that was good.

When they left, I wanted to work on lunging, stopping, and turning using the method that the trainer had shown me. So, that went pretty badly and we had to take a lot of steps back to get somewhere where he could do what I was asking. I ended up giving up on the lunging part altogether and just doing the turns. Mostly his problem is staying still. I'm putting some halter pressure on him when I'm setting him up for the turn, so I have to keep reminding him to "hoooooaaaa" all the time, and even then sometimes he just wants to turn too soon. But we got it a few times both ways and I figured that was enough.

Then we worked on bridling. I gave him a chance to wander off (I had closed the arena gates) in case he wanted a break, but he didn't. The bridling went very well. I took it slowly and did a lot of repetitions, but we got to where he bridles like Pony, which is I put my right hand on his poll, and put the bridle in front of his mouth, then he finds the bit with his mouth takes it up, then I slip the headstall over his ears by pushing on ear forward and underneath at a time. I thought, given his history of sensitivity around his ears, that this might be difficult. But it wasn't at all. IDK, maybe he was so focused on having the bit in his mouth that he forgot to worry about his ears. I forgot if I mentioned, I bought him a new bridle, since even Moonshine's was too small for him around the ears. I'm ready to set that one up now, and get him used to the crown piece.

Except. I'm not sure this bit fits. I tried Pony's bit and thought it was a bit small, so I got the next size up, but it still seems a bit too small. I had a hard time taking good pictures, as he was moving his head around a lot ("What IS this thing in my mouth???") but I'll make a thread asking what people think anyways.

Oh, and the kind of funny thing about the bridling going so well, is that afterwards his haltering was bad. He was in the mindset of putting the bit in his mouth, and he's mouthy in the first place, so then he kept trying to find the "right" part of the halter to put in his mouth LOL.

I put what I think is two days' worth of hay in the shelter of the small paddock and put him out there, even though the front part of it is even worse than before. I'm happy that he followed me through that terrible muck with no questions asked. I did give him a cookie for it. And cookies for hugs. I need to let the barn owner know that I'd prefer he stay in there or the big pasture, rather than his stall. He just keeps getting put back in the darn stall. Hmm. I guess the problem with the pasture right now is he'd be getting that other hay. Ugh. I don't know what to do.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 85*

He was in his stall when I got there. It looks like he may have been in it the whole time I was gone. I asked them to turn him out, but it was so rainy maybe they didn't.

There was a new horse in the pony pasture that at first looked a lot like him, and I thought it was him, but it wasn't. But this guy seemed to be getting along with everyone, and I figured they must have met over the fence already, so I took Rowan out there and turned him out. It was just too mucky in the small paddock and the front part of the back pasture had standing water. The pony pasture has decent drainage and was OK.

So they sniffed noses a few times and then were friends. That was really nice. They hung out together, walked around, eventually ran around. Rowan got to gallop around, too. So I was hoping he'd be ready to focus once I was ready to work with him.

Since the round pen is in the pony pasture, I just had to call him over to it, which was nice. I forgot to mention, when I went to turn him out, he wasn't leading too well. It was like before -- it was good enough for another horse, but it wasn't up to the standards I had set for him. And when I went to take his halter off, he tried to walk away from me before I was done. Not for long, he didn't.

In the round pen, he was like "Who are you and what the heck are you asking me to do?" We had to back up a few steps to get to a starting point. And then he'd lose focus, or he'd decide I was asking for the canter and just start running. I don't know, maybe he didn't think I asked for the canter, maybe he just wanted to canter. Once he got going, I thought, let's just let him burn off some steam, so I stood there and waited for him to come down by himself, rather than asking him to come down.

After that, things actually went better. He did have some problems wanting to fall in, which is new in the sense that usually when he does this I just wave him back out and he moves back out, but he didn't do it today. So we worked on that. And then because I didn't think he was giving me all of his attention, we did some inside turns. He actually liked that. I think he was happy to do something where he knew exactly what was expected of him.

I worked on getting an extended trot by using my body language again, but he just kept wanting to canter instead. We got it eventually, but it wasn't a nice extended trot it was more of a rushed extended trot. 

I didn't want to work him TOO much. If he's really been in a stall for four days, I don't think taking him out and working him hard would be the best idea. I mean, making him move out a lot. So we also worked on the turning thing. He acted like he had forgotten that too. I say "acted like," but I don't think horses act. So I guess he did kind of forget it. We had to break that down a little also, but then he remembered. I don't know, maybe he will not be one of those horses you can just throw out in the pasture for months and then come back and ride. Or maybe it's just because he's young, or because he was in a stall for a while.

I bitted him up again. I wanted to do it with the bit a lot lower in his mouth. It's that same small bit, so I didn't do it very many times. I don't want it to pinch him. But I wanted to let him know that I can bit him and the bit doesn't have to be so high. He was fine with it.

We did a lot of leading in the round pen, too. You might recall I lead him by having him walk to my right, which means that if we are turning right he needs to be paying attention and thinking about what he's doing. He had forgotten about that also. Which was fine, we just worked on it until it was good. Then I led him through the pony pasture and into the arena to work on the mounting block.

The idea here is just to get him calm about seeing me up there. Interestingly, I had put him to where I was on the right side first (I wasn't paying attention). He didn't seem as worried about this side, which is interesting because usually he doesn't like me being on his right as much. So we just did it from that side, then I got down and walked him over some raised poles, then we did it from the other side. Basically I just asked him to stand there, with me on the step above him, while I fed him alfalfa pellets. The I asked him to stand while petting his back from up there. I had taken the lead rope off because it really wasn't helping -- it was just giving me one more thing to have to do with my hands, and the only moving he wanted to do was to scoot his butt to the side.

Actually he did step back a couple of times. Just small steps. But I couldn't get him to walk forward without getting down from the mounting block. So I just stood there, with a sort of expectant wait, until he stepped back forward. I think this worked because while he was standing there I just kept telling him "hooooaaaa" and then "good boy" and rewarding him. It was like someone feeding nickels into a slot machine -- just in, in, in. And then when he stepped back, all of that stopped. So he figured out that he needed to step forward again to get more treats. That was good. He did relax a bit after a while.

I let him into the grassy area with Moonshine. I was kind of interested to see how that would work, since they seem to have worked out their relationship at least when there is a wall between them. However... with no wall, Moonshine decided that she needed to show him who was boss. So, he was just calmly eating grass and she came up and made nasty faces at him butt. He scooted a couple of steps over. Emboldened, she turned her butt to him and started kicking (air kicks) to really show him who was boss. But I guess he could tell they were just air kicks, because this time he didn't move, he just kept eating grass. She didn't like that too much. She came around the trailer and was going to charge at him, but I told her to shoo and she did, but not without some attitude. But then she slipped a bit when she did that. If I let them out together again, I'll do it when it's not wet.

*Highlight of the day: no real highlight. We just worked on stuff we already knew. I guess he did get a bit more relaxed about seeing me above him on the mounting block.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 86*

I took off today and I'm so glad I did! I jumped the gun a bit, and Rowan now has rides 1 AND 2 on him! (not counting the groom). Read more below!

The farrier came very early in the morning. He had said he'd be there at 8, but he was actually there at 7:45. Luckily I was there also. Rowan was very good. He halfheartedly tried to snatch a front foot a couple of times, and he equally halfheartedly kicked out his back foot once, and he tried to scoot back once. That was it. Otherwise he was very patient. The farrier was very impressed! I discussed my concerns about Rowan's one back foot, and he said yeah it's still pretty thrushy. In particular, I asked about how the frog sort of feels hollow, and he said that's because of the thrush back there. So he opened the frog up a lot so that whatever I put in there can actually get to where it needs to go. I just need to figure out what I want to use now.

I was going to do some round pen work, but the round pen was being used for turnout, so we worked in the arena. We worked on the twirly turn some more, and he did it well enough that I think we're done needing to focus on that. I lunged him a bit, but just at the walk, just to sort of get him moving a bit. Then I practiced standing over him at the mounting block. Just like yesterday -- lots of standing around and lots of treats. One thing I liked was, I led him over there and positioned him without the lead rope. I figured I wasn't going to use it anyways. So I asked him to follow me, and I had very specific instructions as to his speed, direction, and where he put his feet. I conveyed these instructions via hands and body language. And he was perfect! I got him lined up very nicely several times.

Then I decided to put on the saddle. I think I mentioned that I got the shimmable pad. Well, it turns out that with the shims in there like I wanted, Teddy's girth no longer fit. So I took way longer than I should have to figure out which shims to take out and which to leave in. But I got it to where it's shimmed at the front, and Teddy's girth fits, and Moonshine's saddle looks better on him.

I also tied him. For 10 minutes. He didn't like it too much. He knows how to give to pressure, and he knows how to not freak out about things, but I am not sure he knows how to be tied. He would try to walk off one direction, then get stopped, then walk off the other direction, and get stopped, then try to undo the lead rope (hmm, maybe he HAS been tied before LOL), then stand there looking annoyed, then start again. I had the lead rope just wrapped around the fence post I tied him to, just in case, with me holding the other end (on the other side of the fence, just in case). So yeah he was OK, I mean he didn't freak out, but he wasn't too good either. Like Pony, for instance. When you tie him, you can just see him thinking "Oh, I is tied, there is nothing for me to do, I will go to sleep." And he does.

OK, so the "riding" part. He just seemed so calm and OK about the mounting block. And I already had the saddle on him. I got my helmet. I worked on the mounting block some more. No problems. I just kept thinking about his nice broad back, how strong it is now, how nice of a horse he is. And I thought, I said I'd wait, but then I also thought, all I'm going to do is get on and get off again. That trainer really put the idea in my head, and it hasn't left my head since then.

So I found the groom. I had left Rowan loose in the arena and he had walked off to the other side, but I called him and he came back. I asked the groom to hold Rowan, and I got on! Then I got off again. Then the groom was like "One more time," and I thought "OK" and got back on. And off again. Then petted Rowan lots of times and gave him lots of rewards. He seemed fine about it! After that I took off the saddle and took him back to his stall and gave him alfalfa hay. And after THAT I finally turned him out into the big pasture. 

Jerk pony S got kicked out of the pony pasture and put in that big pasture, so we'll see how that goes. S can run Rowan around a bit if he wants, and in fact I saw them running around today before I left. I couldn't tell from the distance if it was fun or nasty or a combination of both. But as long as S isn't running Rowan around over the rocks, like he would have in the other pasture, I think it will be OK.

*Highlight of the day! Rowan's first TWO rides! *


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 87*

I'm glad I went out today. I guess. I was just going to put him in a stall overnight since there is a strong wet cold front set to come through around midnight, but it's too hot to put a blanket on him right now.

I led him in with just the lead rope around his neck and he did great with that. Then I went to pick his feet and he picked them all up with just a very light touch of one finger on the fetlock. I noticed it looked like he had rolled or gone in the pond or sweated or something. Then this happened:









Rowan went through a gate


I guess I'm glad I went out there today. I got the story from the groom. Rowan went over / through the gate. He was in the inside area, drenched in sweat (I could see the remainders on him) and the gate was crushed. The groom looked him over and put him back out in the pasture. Then when I...




www.horseforum.com






I guess I am thankful that he doesn't appear to be hurt any worse than that cut I found. Or maybe he is and I just didn't see it. 

He could have broken a leg. He could be dead. I just ... I feel like I just saw my kid run out into the street in front of a car, and the car swerved just in time and missed her. I am in shock and just thinking of all the bad things. 

Also I blame jerk pony S. I told the barn owner that and she said "It's always easier to blame someone else's horse," which is a fair point. But she moved S out of the pony pasture because he was too much of a jerk. Nor do I believe that Rowan tried to jump that gate out of exuberance. 

I can't put him back out in that pasture, at least not for now. But there isn't another pasture for him. He will go back in the paddock.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Also, the barn owner said "It doesn't make any sense that S would run Rowan around. S is a pony and Rowan is bigger than him." This woman supposedly has decades of horse experience and would say something like this? Has she never watched horses in a pasture?

Sorry, I'm still processing this, and griping about it helps.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

The barn owner said she moved pony S back to the pony pasture. So I can put Rowan back in the gelding pasture. It will be the same group he was with before, and he had no problems with any of them.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

My Tico was the smallest of my 4 horses and the boss of all of them. He wasn't aggressive at all about being in charge. Just a cocked hoof and an ear wag, and the other 3 toed the line. Tico was little, but he was mighty.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

A mini was chasing my mare Amore once, biting her legs. My other mare Halla once got in a fight with a small Hackney pony mare. In these situations I was scared for the little ones, but my horses were the ones that had some (minor) injuries. Guess the barn owner hasn't been around Chihuahuas much.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

One day someone brought a load of horses to Grandpa, or something like that. I’m not remembering that part of the story, but somehow this pony was included. He didn’t want the pony, but thought it wouldn’t hurt anything. One day he turned the pony out, not thinking anything of it. He ended up with some massive injuries in his horses, as the pony ran out to meet them and they all took off and ran through a fence.

I can’t remember if anyone died or not, but that was the end of the pony.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 89*

My main goal today was to assess Rowan and see if he's feeling well enough that the trainer could come out on Sunday and I could ride him a little. I ended up having to take a whole bunch of detours and then work him on the lunge line in the main arena. He doesn't like being lunged too much. He likes being loose in the round pen a whole lot better. But he had no signs of lameness that I could see, so I will see if I can schedule her for Sunday.

He did have a spook, though. I'm not sure what it was at, but it was a short and slow spook. I don't know, something about his head, I realized he was going to spook at least half a second before he actually did, so I had time to make sure I had a firm but safe grip on the lunge line. He just spooked back a big step and that was it. 

We also did some more work standing at the mounting block. I just wanted to be sure he still felt OK about it, after I had gotten on him a few days ago. And he did.

One kind of nice thing, I had to turn him loose in that arena twice because I had to do something else, and each time he went over to the gelding who was in the run next to it to play nipping game. Then when I came back, I called him and he came to me. He thought about it, and then he came.

I turned him back out in the pasture. They put in a new gate. I don't think he will attempt to jump this one. Or whatever happened.









I will get T-post caps for the corner fence posts. I also moved the mounting block further out of the corner. It's just another obstacle that isn't helping things.

After I put him out there, I walked out with him to the hay bale (there are two, BTW, so he could eat even if they chased him off one) and tried to stand between him and the other horses. OK, I am a helicopter owner, I admit it. But I wanted to sort of reintroduce them in a nice way. But the thing was, Rowan kept wanting for HIM to be between ME and the other horses. So that was kind of funny. In general, he was following me around the whole time. I know he wants to play with the other horses, but I don't think they really want to play with him. And maybe he realizes that, and that's why he was following me. I mean, he usually does follow me. I don't know, I am just babbling. I really like him, and he really likes me. He's a really sweet horse.

I'm so glad he doesn't seem to have any serious harm done from that gate accident.

*Highlight of the day: he doesn't seem to be very hurt from the gate.*


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Do you really want to re-home him? He seems so right for you.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

knightrider said:


> Do you really want to re-home him? He seems so right for you.


No. He's the best horse ever. I realized that after the fence accident. I love him now. I want to talk to the rescue group and see if there's anything that can be worked out. I don't know how I could make it work financially, though.

We don't celebrate Christmas, but my birthday is Christmas Eve, and when my daughter asked what I wanted, I said "Rowan." I will tell my husband the same thing.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Oh, I hope they get him for you!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I hope you keep him! You are doing so well with him!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 90*

I'm not going out there today. So I just have some random thoughts.

Rowan does fine being lunged, but he's not relaxed or comfortable about it. I wonder if that contributed to his spook yesterday. He constantly looks out, his body language is stiff and worried, and he shakes his head a lot. So I think tomorrow I will spend some time trying to get him to be more relaxed about it. When I lunged him yesterday, I just had this single-minded focus: See if he is lame. So while I kind of noticed that he wasn't too happy about it, I didn't do anything about it. I'll work on that tomorrow. I do feel like one thing I am good at is helping worried horses relax. Plus it's just a nice thing to do with a horse. It makes them feel better in general, feel better about work, and feel better about people!

I can't find the email confirmation of where I ordered his new bit. I am sure it was supposed to be here by now. I want to progress on bridling him but I can't do it without the new bit. Plus I'm also worried that the bit is going to be way too big and I'll have to start from scratch again. Rowan seems to like the unjointed bit just fine, and it's easier for me to bridle him with it, so I'd like to stick with that style, but if I can't find one that fits I'll have to look into other options. I was looking for a similar style from happy mouth at Dover, in a slightly bigger size, but they are all backordered until March. I feel like I've gone through a kind of ridiculous amount of trouble just to get a bridle set up for him. I didn't really have a problem getting any of my own horses set up.

Every time something happens to him, I think "I don't deserve this horse. I should send him back so he can go to someone who can take care of him properly." I know that isn't really rational. I don't know why I keep thinking it.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

One more musing I had. The book "True Horsemanship Through Feel." I bought it two weeks into fostering Rowan. Surely this is an example of "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." I didn't see the point of a lot of the exercises in that book, but I did them with Rowan anyways, and now I understand. All of it IS about feel. When you ask your horse for something that seems simple, like move just one foot back, or move just one forward, you have to learn his feel and he has to learn your feel. I can't believe how I missed something that crucial (feel) for that long. How can you have communication with your horse if you can't feel of each other? It's not like your horse can just talk to you.

Feel. I mean, no wonder the book is so cryptic. How can you explain that? How can you explain how learning the feel of your horse, and your horse learning your feel, can translate to improved responsiveness in every aspect of your relationship? I was thinking about how I move Rowan around the mounting block ("Put this foot there, now move your body over a bit there, now stop. Now take one small step forward with that foot.") without the lead rope. That is 100% because we understand each other, and that's because of all of those feel exercises. I wouldn't have thought that those simple exercises with the lead rope would lead to being able to do this.

It also really reinforced using the bare minimum of pressure, and that was also amazingly timely. Rowan came to me very sensitive and responsive, and I have been able to keep that in him.

No doubt it helps that Rowan is very willing, but that book has opened up a whole new line of thinking and understanding that I wouldn't have been ready for even six months earlier. And having a horse like Rowan to work through it with made it that much easier.

I forget what I paid for that book, but it was A LOT. But it was worth every penny.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

ACinATX said:


> , I think "I don't deserve this horse. I should send him back so he can go to someone who can take care of him properly."


I think Rowen was meant to be your horse, and you most certainly, truly DESERVE him!!! You are so good to him.


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## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

ACinATX said:


> No. He's the best horse ever. I realized that after the fence accident. I love him now. I want to talk to the rescue group and see if there's anything that can be worked out. I don't know how I could make it work financially, though.
> 
> We don't celebrate Christmas, but my birthday is Christmas Eve, and when my daughter asked what I wanted, I said "Rowan." I will tell my husband the same thing.


I hope you get what you want for your birthday!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 91*

Well we're three months into this and I can't believe how well he's doing. When I first got him, I thought maybe I could put his first rides on in spring, then I thought late winter / early spring, then I thought December (probably mid-December) and I just got on him a few days ago! The trainer is coming tomorrow and I'd like to ride him some more then. It's just that I wanted to take things slowly and be sure he was OK mentally and physically, and of course I can't see him every day, so for him to progress this fast (at least to me it is fast) is awesome!

Having said that, we didn't do anything too new today. I worked on lunging him. He got to where he feels a little better about it, but he's still not feeling great. We made some progress, and then we hit a plateau, and I kept working at it and it kept not changing, so we cut our losses and ended on a good note.

I worked on bridling him. His new bit came and I attached it to the new bridle. Wow, I wonder if my bridle would be that easy to work with if I kept it oiled. It was so easy to take it apart and put it back together. We got to where he lowers his head really nicely for the bit, although sometimes he pulls it back up once the bit is in. We can work on that. I left the crownpiece on this one and worked on bridling him like I would any other horse, pushing his ears down and forward to slip it on. After all the advice I got, I had the bit a lot lower in his mouth, but I'm not sure he liked it that much. It also may have been that I left it in there longer. But he wasn't really very happy about it. I did take it off, and then just do a lot of on and off to reinforce him doing it nicely. But after he had had the bit in his mouth for a while, he was less into being bridles. I don't know if the bit is too low, or he doesn't like it, or it tastes weird because it's new, or it's just because he's not used to a bridle. We'll keep working on it.

And then we stood at the mounting block a little. He's super blase about it now, so I'm not sure how much more we'll be doing of that.

I got the cow tomorrow mastitis stuff. I was surprised -- I thought it was going to be like a paste, but it was more like milk consistency. I got three tubes of it but I'm not sure now how long it's going to last. I felt like I used a lot just on his one hoof today. I also keep thinking I want to trim his frog some more (I feel like the farrier left some flaps), but then I don't get around to it.

His cut is almost all healed. It's crazy, you'd have to look for it now to know it was there. I can't believe he went through a gate and that's all he got.

The full picture of Rowan is what he looks like when I leave him in the arena and then go work with Pony for a few minutes, praising Pony and giving him treats.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

ACinATX said:


> I worked on lunging him. He got to where he feels a little better about it, but he's still not feeling great


This is just my opinion (and not worth all that much since I myself dislike lunging). I always trained my young horses to lunge when I was breaking them. So when I got Chorro, that was just part of his training. He had to learn to lunge. He hated it. He was just miserable. When he was about 2 1/2, I decided just forget about it. He hates it. He will never stop hating it. I hate him hating it. Why do it? And I have never lunged him again. He doesn't need it anyway. He rides like a dream.

I already had Tico hating bits, but I was discouraged because I simply could not find a bit that Chorro would accept. I had given up on Tico ever accepting a bit (I tried different bits for 3 years), but I wanted Chorro to be the best horse who ever stepped the earth, and the best horse had to be able to ride in a bit. I made Chorro try different bits at least several days out of every month for about 4 years. Then one day someone said, "Why do you do that to him? He clearly hates it." So Chorro also never rides in a bit. He's fine in a hackamore. I would starve to death before I would ever sell Chorro, so who really cares anyway.


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## Txshecat0423 (May 27, 2020)

knightrider said:


> This is just my opinion (and not worth all that much since I myself dislike lunging). I always trained my young horses to lunge when I was breaking them. So when I got Chorro, that was just part of his training. He had to learn to lunge. He hated it. He was just miserable. When he was about 2 1/2, I decided just forget about it. He hates it. He will never stop hating it. I hate him hating it. Why do it? And I have never lunged him again. He doesn't need it anyway. He rides like a dream.
> 
> I already had Tico hating bits, but I was discouraged because I simply could not find a bit that Chorro would accept. I had given up on Tico ever accepting a bit (I tried different bits for 3 years), but I wanted Chorro to be the best horse who ever stepped the earth, and the best horse had to be able to ride in a bit. I made Chorro try different bits at least several days out of every month for about 4 years. Then one day someone said, "Why do you do that to him? He clearly hates it." So Chorro also never rides in a bit. He's fine in a hackamore. I would starve to death before I would ever sell Chorro, so who really cares anyway.


I’m worse than you @knightrider. I don’t even know HOW to lunge and subsequently my horses have never learned either. When the horses are in for a lameness exam, the vets hate me for it, but such is life! 

I’ve had Skip for 18 years in March and with the exception of about six months in his 6th year, he’s been ridden in the same bit all that time. I guess I don’t like change much 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I am like you @knightrider. I teach groundwork as a start of learning, and I don’t go back to it. Cash had some done in prison, and whatever they did my answer was “nope,” and we didn’t go there again, because he acted like he’d kill a person. He was scary believe it or not.

I don’t ever continue it really. Maybe I say “Hey, remember how I moved this shoulder?,” just because we are struggling with something. If I did do a whole thing of groundwork my horses would act insulted. “We aren’t babies you know.”

I have respect for those who are super focused on it though. I realize there are a lot of ways to skin a cat.

I don’t do much bit changing. It’s not something I’m experienced with. I start in a snaffle, move up to the shanked snaffle, then teach them to pack a selenas. They choose between the selenas and the shanked snaffle as for what they want their everyday bit to be. If the show I’ll throw the selenas in their mouth prior to a show and let them feel confident with it and use it in town, and then drop back to the shanked if that is their preference.


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## twhvlr (Jul 5, 2017)

What is a ”selenas” ?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@twhvlr it is what we call a certain kind of bit. I’m not sure what other name it would go by, but it’s a curb bit with a covered cricket… I found some examples. I also spelled it wrong. Salinas


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

On another note, a salinas is my favorite style of bridle bit (where we wouldn’t call a bit with a broken mouthpiece a bridle). I wish I could get one made that would fit my big horse. Because of his size, I had to purchase some antique grazing bit off eBay. It’s alright, but I don’t love it. He hates a broken bit, so it’s the only option available for me.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 92*

Woo! I rode Rowan for real today! 

First of all, I had to actually catch Rowan! He was out in the pasture with some buddies and even though I called him he didn't come. So, the way I had to catch him is I had to walk all the way out there until I was at the hay bale too, and then let him know that I'd like him to follow me back. Which he did.

I put in a new bit. I think he liked this one a lot better. We long-lined him in it (with the long lines attached to his halter, which we left on) and he seemed really comfortable. Much happier than in the other one. So I guess I'll stick with this one, or perhaps the same one in a slightly bigger size.

He was great being long-lined, but I had a lot of trouble. I couldn't understand how to get the turn. But I got it eventually. One really cool thing the instructor showed me was that I could use the other rein as a sort of "leg" by flopping it against him a little. I had never thought about doing that when I long-lined Pony. Pony and I learned that together, and I realize now it took us way too long. But that's OK.

So the plan was to get on and off a couple of times, which I did. I took the stirrups off the saddle but I think I will put them back -- I felt a bit unbalanced in that saddle. I dismounted by just sliding off the side. He was fine with it. Then we had him take one step with the instructor leading him from the ground. Then a couple more. Then we walked all the way across the arena! Then on the way back I steered for part of the time and I also asked him for a stop and he did it very nicely. 

My daughter was there and took some pictures and videos. The pictures are from when I first got on him. He's definitely thinking about it. Like, what is going on. 

The videos in order:
Rowan turns around to try to figure out what is going on back there.





Rowan walks!





I ride Rowan "by myself"!


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

The videos are set to private


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

updownrider said:


> The videos are set to private


Thank you! I changed them to unlisted. Hopefully they will work now. They aren't all that exciting, but watching them makes me happy!  I feel like Rowan is really trying.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Wonderful! You _have _to get Rowan.
My heart is set on it.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

gottatrot said:


> Wonderful! You _have _to get Rowan.
> My heart is set on it.


You guys are a bunch of enablers LOL.

BUT... they put him up for adoption and didn't even tell me! I only found out because I asked.


https://www.bluebonnetequine.org/horse/behs-1307/



I don't know which is worse, the fact that they put him up for adoption and didn't tell me, or the mere pittance they are asking for him. This guy is worth way more than 800 bucks! That's basically his meat price!

On the bright side, they'll give me a steep discount on the adoption fee.

And I figured out how I could pay for his boarding costs. The only thing is their policy about not transferring ownership until two years. I've had some thoughts about how I could handle that, though. I'll have to talk to them.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> You guys are a bunch of enablers LOL.
> 
> On the bright side, they'll give me a steep discount on the adoption fee.
> 
> And I figured out how I could pay for his boarding costs. The only thing is their policy about not transferring ownership until two years. I've had some thoughts about how I could handle that, though. I'll have to talk to them.


We *are* enablers....we also know how much this animal means to you and has captured your heart...
_Do you really expect them to come take him?__* I don't!*_
_On what grounds do they have reason to take him away from you?_

Rescues do not want their animals back if they are in a good home with adequate care....
Goodness knows you have provided more than that....

They are as close to begging you to take him with their "deep discount" offered as they can be....
His "ownership"....seriously, in your heart he is already yours.

Now you've truly been on him and you are aware he is listed as "available" the clock *is* ticking....
Time to just tell hubby, you want him and are not taking no for a answer.
Just speak up and tell him....
_You want Rowan.
You will have Rowan....
*Don't ask, tell........*_

 I and my heart *do* _*no*_t get walked on easily and you *are* entitled to being happy as is your hubby.
*🐴.... *


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 94*

Once I got him in a stall, he just wanted to eat and didn't want to come to me. I felt bad, like, was the riding I did the other day too much for him? Maybe he's afraid we're going to do that again today? So I took him to see some new parts of the property and eat fresh grass. However, he seemed a tad nervous and also he didn't really want to eat grass, so I put him back in his stall and thought about what to do with him.

What I ended up doing was mounting block work. First, I experimented with backing him up with just one rein (I had the clip on reins on the halter) but he just went straight back. Same on the other side. In my mind, he should be turning. So I'll need to think about that.

I just wanted to get him really solid at the mounting block. I mean, not fidgeting or anything, just standing there. I started with the reins, as I was going to try to use the outside rein to back him up and get his butt turned in at the same time, but that didn't work so I took them off and just did it at liberty. The trainer was annoyed that I was doing all of this at liberty. But it's just one less thing for me to deal with, and I realize more and more that I just worry when he has a lead rope or reins attached. Yes I will put them on when I'm actually going to ride him.

So we did a lot of clicks and rewards, and this turned out to be really good. He's getting to where he'll line himself up at the mounting block. Not perfectly and not every time, but he's getting there. Which would be the first time I've taught someone to do this. The way this works with treats is kind of like this. I have treats. I lead him to the mounting block and line him up, then ask him to stand still at the mounting block. As long as he does so nicely, he gets a click and a treat every, I don't know, 30 seconds or so. However, if he backs up a step, or takes a step forward, or turns his butt out, I stop treating him.

He quickly figured out that he needs to line up again in order to get more treats. And he started doing something new today -- if he was really lined up badly, he would walk away, circle, and come back and try to get lined up better. Now, they were not really ideal tries, but they were definitely tries. I'm currently trying to emphasize that he needs to line up in front of the way I'm facing (As I explained to him, for clarity: "If I can't see you, I can't really give you treats, can I?"). Because he'd try to line up perpendicular or something. But it was really good that he had the idea to circle out and come back-- I certainly didn't suggest it. I think it highlights a value of treats, which is that it really engages them and gets them to try to search for an answer. And it wasn't an answer that I would have gotten if I had been directing him more closely just with pressure and release, because with pressure and release you obviously have to know what the answer is before you ask.

We worked on this for 20 minutes. Again, he was at liberty, so he could have left, but I had closed the arena gates so he couldn't leave all the way. After 20 minutes, I thought, he must be bored of this. So I opened the arena gate to give him a choice. He could see Teddy grazing on that nice green grass, and he could join him if he wanted. But he wanted to keep working on the mounting block, so we did. After 10 minutes, I was the one who just got tired of it LOL. But I was really glad I had that idea, as that way I KNEW that he really did want to be in there working on that. And so hopefully this will remind him that he likes working with me.

After that, I turned him out on that grass. I trust him now enough to do that, as long as I keep an eye on him and the halter on also.

I tried to take some pictures of him circling. Sorry, they are in the wrong order. But look at him looking at me in turning pictures, like, "Am I doing what you want, Mom?"

Also the open gate and green grass.

*Highlight of the day: he came up with his own solution for getting lined up at the mounting block! I'm starting to think he IS pretty smart! And he was very interested and engaged in what we were doing.*


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I’m confused. Was the trainer there?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Knave said:


> I’m confused. Was the trainer there?


Ah, no. She was there last time, and that's when the lack of reins / lead rope annoyed her. Eventually just said "Put the reins on him now" LOL so I did.


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> *Day 94*
> 
> Once I got him in a stall, he just wanted to eat and didn't want to come to me. I felt bad, like, was the riding I did the other day too much for him? Maybe he's afraid we're going to do that again today?


I don't think he wanted to eat because of the riding work you did with him. Especially considering he stayed with you while you were practicing at the mounting block, after the gate was open.

Was he out in the field today before you came? Does the BO have a round bale in the field? Perhaps he was simply hungry if not? Or perhaps he prefers the hay you have to the hay that's in the field? I know you said BO got hay from a new place. Maybe he doesn't like it. Just something to consider.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

cobra said:


> I don't think he wanted to eat because of the riding work you did with him. Especially considering he stayed with you while you were practicing at the mounting block, after the gate was open.


Thank you for saying that. I don't remember if I mentioned it in this journal, but I have watched two horses get started under saddle at this barn, and both horses experienced dramatic personality turns for the worse (IMO) after they were started. I mean they became uncatchable, and when they were caught they were aggressive toward humans and/or bucked under saddle. They had both been nice previously. I got to ask Mark Rashid whether this was something normal and expected, and he said no. He said that most likely they were overfaced in their training and that is what changed their personalities (having watched their training, I do think that's what happened). He said that if you are taking things slowly with your horse, then you shouldn't see any changes like that. He said that if you do it right, starting a horse under saddle should increase its confidence. So I am maybe being over vigilant in looking for signs that what I'm doing is causing him undue stress. Rowan's personality is a treasure that must be protected! 

ETA: I guess to be fair, I should note that he also pointed out that the flip side of this is that maybe the horses were overly-friendly, to the point of ignoring things like personal space, before, and they actually got better. Meaning they started respecting personal space.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I have started about 12 horses in my lifetime (not a big number compared to my neighbor who has started 200 colts), but I have never had one show a personality change when I started riding them. I never expected it, and it never happened. As far as I know, my neighbor who started 200 colts, also never experienced a personality change in a colt he started.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I’ve never seen a personality change either. I did see one horse have a bad personality change, and have a whole new requirement because of it.

This horse was friendly. He was gentle and kind and willing to learn. Then we cut him. He was a two year old stud, and we threw him down and cut him, like many horses before. This was old school, no meds or anything, just a castration.

That horse stood up a different animal. He had a hatred for people he was unable to overcome. He ended up exceptionally dangerous and had to be put down. I will not cut a horse without dope now.

Grandpa told me he had the same thing happen a single time in all of his time. Now, this is a man who mustanged and started horses for a living for a long time. He said one stud was the smartest horse he’d ever caught. He cut him and the same thing happened. He had to shoot him over it too. He also would not, in this day and age, choose to cut a horse without drugging it.

He said to me that drugs are available easily enough nowadays. Even if he only saw one horse in all of his time, and myself the same, wouldn’t it be worth saving that one horse?


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I agree. It's completely abnormal to have a horse change personality after being started. However, it's not just when a horse is started that they are at risk for feeling negative about humans. I believe we need to always watch carefully to see if our horses are thinking positively about working, because any horse can begin feeling negative about working with humans if they are treated unfairly. Any horse can become difficult to catch, and I've seen it happen for example when a person pulled a horse out of the field every day and rode him in fast circles around the arena for 45 minutes, then put him away. I believe in short, positive sessions, and it's a lot better to have a horse learn something by working on it 5 minutes for 6 days than by working on it for 30 minutes straight. 

Horses don't have to come eagerly to us whenever we arrive to take them away from turnout with friends, but they shouldn't be trying to avoid us or walk away. That is a sign we are not making things positive enough. I don't see how we can ever expect to be thought of as highly as the horse friends that communicate naturally, and spend the other 20 hours or so a day with our horse. So I don't ever try for that goal. But our horses still should see us as friends, a positive past time that relieves the monotony of the day, and connect us with better food/forage.

I was wondering if you are working with Rowan on rein cues from the ground. Before you start riding on your own, it's very helpful to have a horse learn to walk around following direct reining cues to the right and left. It can be less overwhelming than when you are on their back. It's also important to have the horse learn to follow the rein in a degree of turn while walking, rather than simply turning the head. It's very easy to get "stuck" when riding a green horse when not being led, so gently keeping them moving with only slight changes in direction, and learning to follow the rein is important. 

If you add word cues to your other cues, it can help the green horse figure out what you want as well. Otherwise it can be very hard for them to know when you're pulling on a rein if you mean to turn the head, go backwards or stop. 

Something I've learned from starting horses is that every individual thing you teach starts in kindergarten and gets better as the horse progresses. There's no need to take any skill up to high school level right away. The horse will start with a very jerky, large movement toward the rein, and that is what should be rewarded. It is easy to over face a horse if you are thinking of the final result and trying for that, rather than trying for a baby step toward that end result, and allowing the horse to go from kindergarten to first grade rather than high school.

There will also always be some skill that the horse finds very confusing, and takes much longer to learn. It takes as long as it takes, so being impatient or worried they won't learn it is not helpful.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

gottatrot said:


> I was wondering if you are working with Rowan on rein cues from the ground. Before you start riding on your own, it's very helpful to have a horse learn to walk around following direct reining cues to the right and left. It can be less overwhelming than when you are on their back. It's also important to have the horse learn to follow the rein in a degree of turn while walking, rather than simply turning the head. It's very easy to get "stuck" when riding a green horse when not being led, so gently keeping them moving with only slight changes in direction, and learning to follow the rein is important.


Oh yes, absolutely. That was the purpose of the long-lining the trainer wanted to do, but I had already been doing it with the short reins and I was impressed by how quickly he picked it up. What I do is, I have the short reins in my hands and cue to walk (verbal cue, reinforced by physical if needed), then I turn his head gently toward me or away from me and he turns his head and then his whole body and keeps moving in the new direction. We also worked on stopping and backing from a combination of verbal cues and the short reins, and then the short reins only. I feel really good about it. I wouldn't get on him if I didn't think he was going to understand most of what I was doing up there. For his sake mentally and my sake physically.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I'm so grateful to this forum. Can you guys imagine, if all I had was my experience at my barn? I'd have no idea how good things could be. Or that things didn't have to be as bad as they can be with the horses at my barn.

I mean, 100% of the horses I've watched get started ended up having problems. I could just think that was normal.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Time to stop kidding myself. I'm moving forward with the adoption. I got the adoption fee down to zero, so that's my first month's board taken care of. I'll pay for the other months by drawing down against a savings account I had made for travelling. Speaking of not kidding myself anymore.... I'm never going to go anywhere again LOL. It's just horses now.

I guess I need to figure out how to break this to my husband...


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## Txshecat0423 (May 27, 2020)

ACinATX said:


> Time to stop kidding myself. I'm moving forward with the adoption. I got the adoption fee down to zero, so that's my first month's board taken care of. I'll pay for the other months by drawing down against a savings account I had made for travelling. Speaking of not kidding myself anymore.... I'm never going to go anywhere again LOL. It's just horses now.
> 
> I guess I need to figure out how to break this to my husband...


Good girl! Better to ask forgiveness than permission [emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

ACinATX said:


> Time to stop kidding myself. I'm moving forward with the adoption. I got the adoption fee down to zero, so that's my first month's board taken care of. I'll pay for the other months by drawing down against a savings account I had made for travelling. Speaking of not kidding myself anymore.... I'm never going to go anywhere again LOL. It's just horses now.
> 
> I guess I need to figure out how to break this to my husband...


Yess!!!!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 96*

I was out there for two and a half hours before I was ready to do anything with him. Part of it is, when I'm going to see my horses I want to feel relaxed, so I am not hustling to get things done. Second, it's four horses now, so it's more work. Third, I'm still mucking out stalls. Today I put Moonshine back out in the larger paddock (the one the vet recommended for her), and Rowan is supposed to be in the pasture, so maybe I won't have as much mucking next time.

But we did some things. Oh, I clipped him too. I mean, not actually clipped him like got a bunch of fur off, but I took two patches off. I introduced the clippers slowly like I would anything else. He didn't like it when they touched him when they were vibrating. But he got over that pretty quickly. He also didn't like the clipping itself too much -- he shivered like he had the world's biggest fly on him LOL. But he stood there, loose in his stall, and let me do it. So it's one more "good enough" thing. Yes, he clips. Yes, he needs to get more accepting of it. But we can work on that in the spring when it gets hot.

We moved to the arena, where he let me know he doesn't like bridling. He was very good about bridling, and polite, and did well. He was getting treats also. BUT I was doing this with him in the arena loose, and after a couple of times, he walked off. I let him walk, then I stood and waited, and he didn't come back. So I called him back, and then we did something else. We did lining up at the mounting block because he really seems to like doing that now. I feel like he's proud of himself that he's mostly figured it out. He wasn't interested in walking off then.

Then I got down and moved him over and did the bridling again. Again, he was polite and did it well, but after a couple of times he left. I let him go, but not for too long, then I called him back and he came. What we did then was, I wanted to really reinforce that that "click" sound that we all make at our horses does mean to move forward. So we did that while leading a few times, then we did it with him off the lead rope but still mentally "with" me, if that makes sense. Like I removed the lead rope, but I got his attention and then walked purposefully forward just as if I had it, while clicking. Then I had him hold still while I walked away. Then I clicked at him. He was a little hesitant the first time, but he made the correct decision, more or less. Well, he moved. Kind of sideways, but it was enough. We worked on that a bit and got it to where clicking is a bit more about moving forward rather than sideways. So I think that when I get on him next time (some time this weekend) I feel good that he'll respond to that cue.

I was pretty happy with that. I didn't try bridling again. I'm going to think about it. He needs to do it, but maybe I can stop trying to "teach" him. He does it and he does fine. He doesn't do a beautiful perfect job, but he does it just fine. We can work on perfecting it when it's time to actually put him in the bridle to work. Yeah. I think we'll stop practicing it.

Finally, it was a nice sunset and I tried to get some nice pictures of him in the sunset and failed. Here's a bleah picture of the bleah clipping job I did, instead. Sorry Rowan, I know it's ugly.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> Finally, it was a nice sunset and I tried to get some nice pictures of him in the sunset and failed. Here's a bleah picture of the bleah clipping job I did, instead. Sorry Rowan, I know it's ugly.


Might I suggest you instead of putting the blades on him while he learns to accept the vibration, just use the clipper body rubbed on his body, neck and face.. use medium pressure applied or you feel more a fly and annoyance..in other words don't be so tentative but just go slow in your movements and introduction. Let him know you are their and nothing to fear.
OR...
Take the blades off it and just let it run turned on as you again just move the clipper body against his body.
Today with so many clippers having snap-on/off blades its simple to do...

Next time try introducing to the neck, not the face where they are far more protective and reactive for good reason..
Run a running clipper over the neck and toward the jowl...and caution if you plan to clip a bridlepath area since you had a horse who was protective of his ears...this may be a time of reintroducing no pain, no fear is needed.

So glad to hear you have finally made a decision....a time of celebration!!
WELCOME to your forever home ROWAN!! 
🐴...


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Wow, I had never even thought of taking the blade off. Yes, it is a snap on model, and I could easily do that. Or yes I could just reinforce it by touching him with the butt of the clippers while they were vibrating.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 97*

The Rowan rollercoaster continues. He had some sort of episode today. I wrote about it here: Rowan had some kind of episode -- any thoughts?. 

And the video is here: YouTube

It was just so weird. And concerning. I don't have any idea what could be wrong with him. Or maybe there's nothing wrong and I just over-reacted. The head shaking by itself wouldn't have bothered me, but the walking backwards and leaning against the walls really did. But then after his lie down he seemed fine. I'll go back out first thing tomorrow and see how he is. I hope he's OK. I told him to be OK. I hope he listens to me.

One thing that was kind of sweet was, he really just wanted to stand next to me. Once he got over the walking backwards part. I was moving around a bit trying to clean out all the hay in there, and when I'd stop he'd come and just stand next to me. He just wanted to put his whiskers or his muzzle on me. And I let him, even though I usually don't because usually he will take that next step, which is to nip. But he wasn't thinking of nipping at all today.

At least he wasn't. I could tell he was feeling better after a while (was it the banamine? in that case maybe it really WAS colic) when he started feeling nippy again. So then of course he lost his privilege of putting his muzzle on me. But I was glad he was feeling better. 

So, I don't know. Maybe the video isn't too alarming. I just don't know.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I was taught to hold the clippers in my hand while rubbing the back of my hand over the horse. Your hand still passes the vibrations through to the horse.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 98*

I left really early this morning because I wanted to check on him and I wanted to feed him if I could. When I left, the balance of responses to my post about his episode was "yes, ride him." So that was my plan.

He was fine. Lots of nice poops. The barn owner listened and said she heard lots of gut sounds. Actually I heard some even without the stethoscope. So we moved forward with the riding plan.

When the had trainer come out, she tightened his girth up pretty tight from the beginning. She said it was kinder to have it kind of tight rather than have the chance that it might slip and scare him. But I realized what I could do is, put the saddle on and put the girth at the lowest hole, then lunge or round pen him a bit, and then tighten it up. That would make it more comfortable for him to have it tighter, and it would also let me get a sense of how he was feeling before I got on.

So a cold front blew through last night. It wasn't really cold but there was a strong north wind. Rowan was feeling up. And also like he wasn't 100% sure I needed to be bossing him around. But he settled down quickly. I left the stirrups loose and he did buck again at the canter, going his less preferred direction (he was fine at the more preferred direction). He only needed half a lap to get the bucks out. I will keep round penning him with the saddle -- I like the idea of doing it before I ride, and I am hoping he'll get used to it and stop bucking. 

So I guess I was nervous, too. This was my first ride without a trainer! And maybe I didn't need to have had all that espresso right beforehand LOL. So a lot of what we did is what you'll see in the video -- working on him lining himself up at the mounting block, then taking a few steps and me getting off. We did that maybe half a dozen times. The video reminds me of my bad habit of not having the reins ready to go when I get on. We were back and forth with him walking off at the mounting block. I did make sure that he was balanced with his feet first, but sometimes he just walked off. And sometimes he didn't. I think what I need to do is keep saying "hooooaaaaa" when I get on. I don't like to have the reins taut because I don't want to teach him to maybe blow through the pressure.

So after about a half dozen of those, it was time to actually ride. We worked on steering. I wish I had had my daughter stick around and take a video, because it certainly FELT like those videos you guys posted of your first rides. Rowan walks forward, and I create a gently opening rein to one side. He kind of hesitates, then keeps walking forward. I make the opening rein more dramatic (I mean more out to the side). Cogs slowly work in his brain... you can feel him thinking "I think that means something..." and then he takes that hesitant step in that direction. Lots of verbal praise. So we then combined that with making laps around the round pen. Once he started going in the circle, his walk got a lot faster. I'm not sure if he was nervous, or if he was on his forehand, or if maybe it just felt faster than it was. Yeah, I really should have had her take more videos. But I didn't try to slow him down. I know I stopped a lot, but I thought that was better than trying to tell him how fast to go when he's still figuring it out.






We did half a lap each way, then stopped, then mounted again. Then one lap each way, stopping each time and then mounting again. I guess I feel like me getting off of his is kind of a reward, and I'm trying to give him a lot of rewards right now, so maybe that's why I got off so much. I also wanted, for my own mental comfort, to be sure he really understood the stopping cue. A couple of times he did hesitate a bit. And a couple of times he stopped but then started walking again. So I guess we're still working on it. AND every time I asked him to come back to the mounting block and line himself up, he did. He walked off one time, but it turned out he just wanted to get lined up better. I'm happier and happier he walked off when I was bridling him, because now I know if he really isn't happy with something he will leave. So I don't have to worry so much about overfacing him. Hopefully.

I felt pretty good about the work we did. I had saddled him up in there but I brought him back to the barn with the saddle still on. I think he can deal with that now.

Then I worked on touching his sheath. I had recalled that the vet I picked him up from said he had kicked when they cleaned it, even though he was sedated and twitched. And you know what, it was true! It wasn't a kick like "I will kick you if you don't back off", more of a "there's a fly on my tummy" kind of half kick. I decided to work on it with the pool noodle first. He got over it pretty quickly. Then I went back to my hand and he kicked a little, but that got less each time. I'll keep working on it, but it feels weird to be spending that much time down there.

I turned him out and then walked the fenceline putting t-post caps on where needed. He followed for a bit. At one point Moonshine came up (from the other side of the fence) and he tried to chase her off ("MY hooman!") but I made him quit it. He definitely wants to be possessive. What they get up to in their own time is their own business (unless they go through a gate  ) but when I'm there, there is to be no aggression displayed.

*Highlight of the day: my first solo ride!*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Assuming he doesn't kill himself from one thing or another, I am thinking about trying to find a trainer that I could maybe send him to for a month or so in the spring, because there are some things I'd like him to be able to do that I don't think I'm the best person to teach. I'm trying to make a list of things so I don't forget.

Things

canter with a rider -- correct lead
trail ride
pony and be ponied from
ground tie / hobble (?)
Maybe I'll even remember where this list is, and come back and add to it. I think there were more things I had in mind...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Hmm… I’m not sure I could pony from a horse within 30 days. Maybe. I could pony a broke and easy to pony horse in 30 days I think.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Knave said:


> Hmm… I’m not sure I could pony from a horse within 30 days. Maybe. I could pony a broke and easy to pony horse in 30 days I think.


Thank you, that's very useful. I need to keep my expectations realistic.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

A nice picture from the video. I like this one because for once I'm sitting up straight LOL. I put the stirrups on my saddle but they were WAY too short LOL so I wasn't using them. I think we look pretty good together! It's funny, looking at the video again, his ears were on me the whole time. Nothing wrong with that for now, I think.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

yes, you look very naturally balanced in that photo, like a mounted American Indian .


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

That was very good, just right I'd say. Nice job! You should be very proud. 

I'm sure you can teach ground tying. I agree that ponying another horse would be a lot to ask from a green horse. I did a little ponying off Aria but she is really not refined enough in her cues yet and it only worked for a few minutes at a time.

Rowan is just beautiful and you two look like one of those pairs that is meant to be.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Day 99

Today we spent all day going to the vet. The vet thinks Rowan may have ulcers. Reasons:

He is gassy
He exhibits sensitivity in his inguinal area
That could have contributed to his colic (and choke?)
He had a difficult life prior to August and has had a big change in lifestyle since then.
The bodyworker also thought he might have ulcers, due to some sensitivity she detected around his lower left quadrant.

So I shelled out almost $1k for ulcer treatment. It's a bit complicated how you do it, so I need to figure out how I can get it done correctly.

Rowan did pretty well, considering. He loaded really well. He unloaded OK and they walked him into the stocks with no problem. This vet office is HUGE -- it's like half a warehouse, and it was very busy with lots of horses (some unhappy but most quite well-behaved), and very echoey. Lots and lots of activity. They were trotting out horses every few minutes for lameness checks. It was a lot.

What I thought was kind of sweet was after they put him in a stall to wait for the bloodwork, and it was just to the side of this huge area, he was really distressed. But when I came over he calmed down immediately. Then he just wanted to put his muzzle on me. None of the others ever seemed to want to use me as a mental anchor. Pony is like "Yeah, you is nice hooman lady, but poonies trust they's own judgment and does not need hooman ladies to tell them when to calm down." Teddy gets just too caught up in the anxiety. And Moonshine mostly just doesn't care.

I mean, I'm sure any of them, if put in a stall in a big bustling place like that, they'd prefer if I was there, but Rowan went from pacing, weaving, bobbing, and calling, to totally calm. He liked it when I put my hand on his face or neck. I know some people say you shouldn't reward a horse with attention when it is "acting up" but he was just really stressed from being there and I was really happy I could make him feel better.

He loaded overall pretty well for the trip back. I was parked next to a trailer that had a horse in it and that horse was FREAKING OUT. It was screaming at the top of its lungs, and ... I don't THINK a horse can buck inside a trailer? But it sure sounded like he was bucking in there. And it was windy and rainy and there was a busy highway right next door. So what he did was try to walk into me a few times on the way over there, hesitate just a second before loading, then everything else was fine. He did step off the ramp the first time he unloaded. So when I unloaded him at home, I made sure to keep the lead rope short and block him on that side with my body. So, he didn't jump off the side but then he ran right down it. So definitely we need to work on unloading. I really think he doesn't like the ramp. I've heard of such horses but didn't really believe they existed.

Rowan is making me realize how similar my other three horses are to each other. I feel like my own three have one kind of health problem and Rowan is more of a digestive system horse. He looks different, his whole body shape is different, his personality is different. He has things in common with each of them, of course, but overall he is just very different. 

Highlight of the day: Rowan finds my presence reassuring.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Also, mostly unrelated, but there were probably 10 other horses and their owners in and out of there while we were there, and I am pretty sure I was the only one covered in hay bits and with specks of "mud" here and there and in grungy boots. Do people dress up to take their horses to the vet, or am I just a slob? I care about how I present myself in general, but I feel like once I've been around horses for more than five minutes I'm going to be filthy so there's no point in trying.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Queen is the first horse I’ve owned that so obviously finds my presence reassuring, and it does mean a lot to me.

As far as dressing nice goes, I think I miss that boat much of the time, so I’m not the one to offer any concept of what most people do. Lol


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@Knave and Queen is a mustang, isn't she? I had always thought that mustangs were kind of independent thinkers who tended to trust their own judgment over that of a human. That's cool that she feels that way.

*Day 100*

A milestone day, but I spent all day questioning myself on whether I was the right home for Rowan. Ultimately, I think he's unlikely to find a better home, at least until he's got more rides on him, so I'm going to move forward with the adoption. They still haven't sent me the paperwork.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 101*

I spent a lot of time out there putzing around today. But also I had really bad PMS, mentally and physically, and I didn't feel like doing much.

He was snatchy with his front feet again when I picked them, so I physically explained a couple of things to him:

He needs to let me have his feet at least for as long as it takes me to pick them, and if it's muddy that's going to be longer
More importantly -- if he wants to fight about those feet, then what's going to happen is he's going to end up uncomfortable, and it's just going to be that much longer before he gets his foot back.
He does NOT get his foot back when he's acting rude about it. Period.
Basically, I just held onto his foot while he tried to snatch it, then scoot back, then scoot forward, etc. I don't pick his feet up forcefully, so he has time to rebalance himself before I pick one up. So I don't think he has any good reason to not let me hold it as long as I need to.

Because of this, after I rode Pony, we had a session with his feet. This time, we used treats. And he was great. He will pick them up himself and even hold them up if he thinks he's going to get a treat LOL. So maybe the next time I need to actually pick them, he'll get a couple of treats and we'll try to get back to him being very willing to pick them up.

You may have noticed in the video of me "riding" him, the first time I wanted to mount him, he stepped too far forward. I asked him to back up with voice and hand signals, and he really thought about it (he shifted his weight back), but ultimately he didn't. So I realized that he's not as clear on the vocal "baaaaaaackkk" cue as I thought. We worked on that today and we had to spend some time on it before we got there. I'll probably need to reinforce it some more.

I also worked more on touching his sheath and inguinal area.

I figured out what I think is the best way to make sure he gets his ulcer medication daily (see picture). I showed the barn owner and I showed the groom, and I used google translate and really made sure he understood what needs to happen. I'm pretty happy with the way I set it up. I mean, OK it's a little ugly, but it has days of week as well as calendar days. And it will be clear if each day has been done. I gave him his first dose today and he was fine with it.

Also the vet did a fecal and I will need to deworm him with a dewormer containing Ivermectin.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 103*

I think I can confirm that I should have spent more time getting on Rowan and just sitting there, or getting on and off. Today, I really did try to get him nice and balanced at the mounting block, but he still walked off every time. Now, he'd stop when I asked him to, after a step or two, which is good, but that's not really the point. So tomorrow hopefully my daughter will be out there and she can stand there and hold him while I get on and sit, get on and off, etc. Boring. Hmm, maybe she can get on him too.

We learned that we can handle him getting treats with me in the saddle. He picked that up in about two seconds LOL. So now we can bring the treats training into riding, which will hopefully make it nicer for him.

I did ride him around the round pen for a bit. Just at the walk obviously. It was kind of mixed. I mean, I guess I shouldn't think it would be perfect. I guess I thought that the round pen being round, I wouldn't really have to steer, but that's turned out to be incorrect. He steers fine. Well, I mean fine for someone who has only been ridden four times now. So, just OK really. I got the clip-on reins (still not bridling him... I know...) the first time, because they are easy to attach to his halter. But it turns out they aren't long enough for when I really need to extend my hand out to the side to really create that opening rein for him to step into. So I had to take them off and attach the real reins. I did concentrate on being sure I released the pressure as soon as he moved over.

I felt like he felt a little nervous, and at one point after a few laps I felt like maybe he was building up to something, so I stopped him and got off. Then we walked over and remounted. However, another time while we were walking he let out a sigh, so that's good.

I saddled him up in his stall for the first time today. That's how we'll do it moving forward. The first few times I saddled him, I did it in the arena or round pen where we were working, because I felt like he wasn't too familiar with the saddle and maybe wearing it over there would make him nervous. 

Speaking of being nervous, I'm worried that we've started to get into too much of a routine in what we're doing, and he'll get worried when confronted with something new. He did OK at the vet, though. But still. Today I walked him through one of the barns he hadn't been in before. He was a little snorty and looky but otherwise fine. I mean, to clarify, I think having that routine was really good for him when he was still settling in, but I don't want him getting TOO settled into a routine, to where he can't do anything new. I made that mistake with Pony and I won't make it with Rowan.

We also worked on "baaaaaaackkkk" from verbal command some more today, and he's still not really picking it up. I mean, he'll do it if I stand next to him and step back and say it, or if I'm in front of him and point at him or lean toward him, but I am wanting to bridge this into backing up from vocal command under saddle, and we don't have it good enough for that yet, IMO.

*Highlight of the day: I realized I put a hole in his training (standing still at the mounting block). But it's early days still and I'm confident I can fix that pretty easily. I will take longer with all the mounted things in the future.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 104*

I'm learning that my daughter doesn't really understand horses all that well. Moonshine had really good ground manners when we got her, and she never had to really fix anything. Under saddle they had some problems they worked through with the help of an instructor, and some other problems that never really got better. It's weird because she's definitely a better rider than me.

Today I wanted her to hold Rowan still while I got on, so he wouldn't walk off. But he walked off. She didn't understand how to keep him from walking off. I told her after the first time, "he stands there for a few seconds, which is good, but then he thinks about walking off, and you don't catch that, and then he walks off and you stop him, but it's too late. You have to stop him when he's just _thinking_ about walking off, not after he's already doing it." I had to kind of dig deeper into my own mind to put that into concrete steps. So I told her to watch for him shifting his weight. That's him wanting to walk off. You stop him then. After that it worked fine. To me, there is something even before that weight shift, like sort of a thought shift, but I didn't tell her that. What we did worked.

I also learned that Rowan can stand like that for about 10 seconds before he really wants to go. The better horse training books that I have suggest that at this point in their training, it's not really fair to make them stand around forever if they don't want to. So I'll bear in mind that 10 second rule and ask him to move out before that.

Also we had what could have been a disaster. After learning that my daughter didn't understand how to hold a horse still, I decided that I would hold him and she could get on. Well, I thought the girth was tight but I guess it wasn't. She wanted to get on by putting her foot in the stirrup and then sort of slowly mounting. But the saddle slipped! It slipped well to the side! Rowan, bless him, just stood there with a mildly concerned look on his face. And he stood there while I tried rather incompetently to fix it. It turns out I had buckled it wrong in the first place, so it was extra hard to unbuckle. You'd think by now that I would be at least decent with tack, but I'm not.

After that I decided I didn't want her trying to get on again. So that's when I explained the above to her, and after that it was fine. She also suggested that she take some videos, and I'm glad she did. Here is one of us walking. Rowan has a really nice walk! It is smooth but not slow.






I don't know if you can tell in the video, but toward the end he let out a nice big sigh, and then I decided to get off and let him be done. I wanted him to end on that "I'm relaxed" note.

I went to the store afterwards and got him a bigger girth. It seems like we'll be using this saddle for a while. The girth I'm using fits, but it's a bit tight to get on at first. I don't want him to start associating being girthed with discomfort.

Speaking of girths, I don't know why the saddle slipped. The girth seemed tight enough to me, and unlike Pony, Rowan has withers, so that really shouldn't have happened.

Rowan still comes when called, so I guess our riding work up to this point hasn't been too bad. Also today he anticipated me asking for his feet to be picked up and picked them up for me before I even touched him.

So far he has no problem taking the ulcer meds. But I don't see any changes in him either. He's still gassy and his poops are still the same (mostly good). I wish I had asked her how long it would take to see a change if ulcers are in fact the problem. Today was his fifth day of getting the medicine.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone else ever needed to teach the command "DROP IT!" to their horse? LOL. I am seriously working on this with him. He's so mouthy.









Drop it!







youtube.com





Highlight of the day: Rowan is calm even when something bad happens.

ETA: if anyone has any comments about the video of me riding him, please share. I feel like I'm not quite with him yet, but I also feel like we're getting better.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Some things I notice from watching the video:

I am still distractable. I shouldn't have let him get distracted there at the beginning and I certainly shouldn't have stopped and looked myself.
My stirrups are still too short.
He relaxes as we go.
His ears also move from back on me to forward on where we are going (or where he thinks we are going LOL) which I like. Ultimately, what I'd like to see is ears pointing where we are going but occasionally flicking back to me to check in.
I am still kind of hunchy. I mean, my back is straight enough but my neck is hunched. I need to find that shoulders back thing I had.
He's a good boy!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I think everything is going very well. I'm pretty bad about having horses stand still for anything, so I'm trying to do better following your example. If Rowan had stomach ulcers that were causing pain, you probably would have seen changes by now. Usually within several days on the medication you'll notice a horse is more relaxed, eats better and seems more comfortable if they have stomach ulcers. If he has hind gut ulcers the medication probably won't do much for them unfortunately. I have used Equishure a couple of times for hind gut ulcers and it does seem to help a lot. 

EquiShure - Hindgut Supplement for Horses | Kentucky Equine Research


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thanks @gottatrot I will check that out.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 105*

I went out there today and didn't do one thing with him -- didn't even pick his feet. Well, I gave him his medicine. I gues that is one thing.

See here: Me + Three for my long gripe about it being cold and wet.

I did think about training things yesterday, though. I was thinking about introducing the leg as an aide. So far, we have three aides while riding: (1) cluck means go, (2) reins mean turn, (3) voice/reins/body means stop. So I wanted to add legs but I wasn't sure if I should start with legs as a cue for forward motion or legs as a cue for lateral motion. I basically wrote this whole post about it, and in the process I pretty much decided that I want to do legs as a cue for lateral motion first. I already have a great cue for forward motion, and I think it will be easier for him to understand legs = forward after legs = lateral than the other way around. But if anyone here disagrees, please tell me why!

Also I sent that video to my trainer and she suggested I start working on lateral movement also. So everything seems aligned there. He already understands lateral movement from pressure on his haunches, so I'll start with him saddled up, and use the stirrups (from the ground) to create pressure. I can bridge with the pressure on his haunches if needed.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

This is purely a personal preference thing for me, but I really try to limit the use of clucking with my horses and instead use vocal cues (walk, trot, canter, whoa, etc.) with varying tones. This came about during my showing days with Toofine, as he was always a hotter, harder-to-ride horse off property, and the universal go forward noise is clucking... So, when I would be trying to get a calm, listening horse in warm-up, people that were clucking would come by, he would hear them and shoot forward, and we would have to start all over. It was just a giant pain in the rear (and whenever my sister tries to cluck to him like her lessons have taught, I nip it in the bud right away!).

My personal preference would be tying the clucking to the forward leg cues, and toss out the clucking once the leg cues are established. On the horses I've ridden from the start, most quickly understand the differentiation between forward leg cues (both legs squeezing or tapping for walk or trot, and a sweeping outside leg for canter) and lateral leg cues (most often one leg squeezing someplace on their side). Once all of the cues start coming together, it's really quite amazing how horses come to understand our language from our seat bones and legs. I don't think it's so much even training certain lateral cues, but making sure they are clear and concise from the start for the horse to understand. @beau159 provides a lot of great explanations on here on lateral cuing through the seat bones and legs, better than I ever could!

This has been only my experience, of course.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I wouldn't fuss with your legs and any sort of precision until he follows a feel on the line better. Fuss around too much and you run the risk of killing his 'forward'. Wait until you are comfortable trotting on him, turnning, disengaging and trotting off , etc.
More freedom in moving foward and confidence in that, for both of you .


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 107*

I didn't have a lot of time. I did achieve one thing which I had been hoping to achieve, which is to give him his ulcer medicine without even haltering him. When I give him the medicine, I make his feed bucket first and show it to him. And as soon as he takes his medicine, I praise him and give him the feed. I'm hoping to explain to him that he'll get his feed as soon as he takes his medicine. I'm not sure I have done that yet, but what I did today is I just used the "head down" signal from putting my hand on his poll, and he put his head down nicely and took the medicine.

I mucked his stall, gave him a bunch of hay, and let him eat for a while. Then I turned him out. The problem is, I turn him out and then he hangs around with this hopeful look on his face, thinking maybe he will get some more alfalfa hay. And I do give him more alfalfa hay, because I'm a sucker. I mean, what's the point of turning him out if he's just going to stand around eating?

However, once he finished the hay he went out to the main part of the pasture and really enjoyed himself running around with the others. Everyone's been in stalls for at least 36 hours, so they were all happy to be able to run around. I love watching him out there being happy with everyone. I just love watching happy horses in general.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

You are really doing a great job with Rowan!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 108*

Today was the cold front day, so I had some prep stuff I absolutely had to do before I got to ride Rowan. I set up the two heated buckets, which took a lot longer than you might expect. Part of that was because the one for Rowan, I had to really work at it to make it so that he wouldn't be able to mouth the extension cord. I had to get the bucket in the exact right place, and the extension cord, and then I duct taped the extension cord to the pipe frame of his stall. I hope he doesn't try to eat it. Then we stripped his and Moonshine's stalls, cleaned the paddock, rebedded, brought hay over, etc.

I did get to ride him, though. But not for very long. The cold front was already starting to come through. And what I had wanted to do was teach him lateral movement through application of the stirrups, on the ground, first.

He did OK with that. Not great, though. Actually he did better on his bad side, which I need to think about. Basically though he didn't want to step over unless I also brought his head around a bit. I was OK doing that to start with, but we didn't progress much beyond it. At least not on his good side. On his bad side, he got it a few times. But the wind was really starting to blow, and I thought, "If I'm going to ride him I need to do it now." Not to mention, he didn't seem like he really felt like being there, so I thought we'd just try to keep everything short. I mean, I felt like he was kind of worried. Was it because of the wind and all of the tarps the barn owner put up? I guess. He was just feeling really mouthy, and when I did over him a reward he was a bit distracted in taking it, which isn't like him at all.

He stood still at the mounting block! I praised him and gave him a treat. What I had really wanted to work on, aside from lateral movement (which I didn't even try), was stopping better. And I don't mean HIM doing better, I mean ME doing better. I keep saying that I want to keep him soft and responsive, but after reading another book about starting horses, I felt like I could do better with my request. The author had a really interesting analogy: think of a ship coming into harbor. It doesn't slam on the brakes. It just turns off the engine and coasts (this isn't actually really entirely true, but as a metaphor I can accept it). That's what you want to do with your horse. Don't slam on the brakes (pull back with the reins), just make it so that your arms stop, and then your horse should stop. I went back and watched the last video I posted, and there was a lot of pulling back on the reins (I'm SO glad my daughter offered to take that video). So this time we did stopping more on voice and seat, and with my arms stopping but not pulling back. He was a bit slower to stop, but not much. We did this about three times, and did maybe one lap around the round pen, and then that was it.

To my surprise, they had turned out the other geldings in his pasture, and they were all running around. So I turned him out too, for a bit. I don't know how long he's going to be in a stall this time, and I wanted him to get a chance to run around a bit first. Which he did, so that was great.

And then. OK, so I said the cold front had started coming through already because it was windy. Well, I was wrong. That wasn't the cold front, that was just the pre-cold front. About 20 minutes after I turned him out, the REAL cold front came through. Wow! That definitely was an arctic blast. So I went out to his pasture and called him back in. He did decide to canter at one point, and he cantered right up to me, but I put up my hand and he stopped. I used to like it when they cantered up to me and stopped, but after Moonshine almost slid into me one time, I realized that horses aren't always the best judge of ground conditions. It was quite muddy out there. So I stopped him a good 10 feet away from me, and he followed nicely after that.

I put on his turnout sheet and filled all the troughs as high as I could, thinking that maybe the thermal mass would keep them from freezing solid. His heated bucket only holds five gallons. I put him in Moonshine's stall / tiny paddock so he could move around more (Moonshine wasn't too happy about that LOL). He has plenty of water, and salt. So hopefully he will not colic.

On an entirely different note, I finally got the adoption contract from the rescue group. But the terms were a lot different than what I had expected. So I need to talk to them before going any further. They're closed now until January 2, though. I guess I'm not really in a rush. I don't think it's too likely someone will adopt him out from under me.

*Highlights of the day: (1) he stood still at the mounting block, (2) he stopped from much less pressure.*


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm really curious about the adoption terms, but I understand if you don't want to share.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Basically, what I was told by multiple representatives, and what I understood from reading through their website is, they turn ownership of the horse over to you after two years. However this contract doesn't mention that at all, and it DOES give them continued visitation rights, essentially indefinitely it seems. So it seems like in a sense they retain ownership or at least control forever.


The Adopter wishes to adopt the above-described Equine and agrees to the following

conditions:

 That the undersigned adopter is at least eighteen years of age.

 The Adopter agrees to pay BEHS the adoption donation of $0.00.

 The Adopter will be financially responsible for all expenses incurred for the above-described Equine from the date

of this contact forward.

 BEHS will make site visits to check on the health, care, environment, and well being of the above-described Equine

per the BEHS Adoption Policy and BEHS Inspection Policy. Further site visits may be scheduled if BEHS deems them

necessary.

 The Adopter agrees to allow a representative of BEHS access to the Equine and its home for purposes of site visits

providing that the visit is prearranged or, if unannounced, the representative has a letter signed by at least one

officer of BEHS in his or her possession stating why an unannounced visit is being conducted.

 The Adopter agrees to release the above-described Equine to the representative of BEHS if that representative has

found that the Equine is not being adequately cared for.

 The Adopter agrees to provide adequate food, water, shelter, worming, hoof care and veterinary care for the

above-described Equine in accordance with BEHS ?Minimum Standards of Care Policy? for the duration of the

Equine?s life.

 The Adopter agrees to never send to slaughter, send through auction or otherwise dispose of the above-described

Equine (with the exception of euthanasia) for the duration of its life.

 The Adopter agrees to never sell, give away or lease the above-described Equine for the duration of its life without

written approval of the Adoption Coordinator. This approval may be granted if:

o The person the adopter wishes to rehome the equine with agrees to submit a BEHS adoption and is

approved.

o The person the adopter wishes to rehome the equine with agrees to follow the rules and guidelines

outlined in the BEHS adoption contract and is willing to submit to a pre-adoption inspection and follow-up

inspections in accordance with the adoption contract.

 If the Adopter can no longer care for the Equine or no longer wishes to keep the Equine any time in its life and

cannot/will not rehome the equine in accordance with the above requirements, the Adopter must return the

Equine to BEHS. If the Adopter violates this, the Adopter agrees that a value of $5,000 has been placed on the

Equine and that the Adopter may be held liable for the value of the Equine and any costs incurred by BEHS in the

process of recovering the Equine.

 The Adopter also agrees never to breed the above-described Equine for the duration of the Equine?s life. If the

above-described Equine is bred, the resulting offspring automatically becomes the property of BEHS and may be

confiscated along with the mare as soon as it is old enough to be transported.

 If the above-described Equine is bred, whether before or after the date of adoption, the resulting offspring

automatically becomes the property of BEHS and will be treated as a foster horse.

 If the above-described equine is female, the Adopter also agrees to not use her as an Embryo Transfer recipient or

donor. If the Adopter disregards this agreement, the resulting offspring automatically becomes property of BEHS

and may be confiscated along with the mare as soon as it is old enough to be transported.

 The Adopter agrees to notify BEHS if the Equine is moved from the approved location described on the adoption

contract and to allow BEHS volunteers access to that property to inspect and approve for the duration of the

Equine?s life.

 The Adopter agrees not to hold BEHS responsible for any veterinary care or other expenses incurred for the Equine

after the adoption contract is signed.

 The Adopter agrees to provide written notice to BEHS when the above-described Equine dies or is euthanized.

 The Adopter agrees to provide written notice of any changes in his or her residence or contact information.

 The Adopter agrees to allow representatives of BEHS to visit and check on the above-described Equine throughout

the Equine?s life.

 The Adopter agrees to notify BEHS if he/she receives a citation for any criminal or civil offense related to animal

abuse or neglect.

 The Adopter agrees to pay all attorney fees, legal expenses, and court costs of BEHS incurred in connection with

enforcement of the Adoption Contract.

 The Adopter knowingly and voluntarily assumes all risks associated with the adopted Equine ? including, but not

limited to, inherent risks and risks of negligence.

 BEHS will not be responsible for any damages or injuries caused by the above-described Equine.

 If the Adopter returns the equine within thirty (30) days from the date of this contract, BEHS agrees to make a

refund of $0.00 minus the cost of any veterinary work needed as a result of injuries or illnesses sustained while in

the Adopter?s possession. It is the responsibility of the Adopter to provide transportation for the adopted equine

when returning him or her to the rescue. If the adopter is unable to do so and BEHS is able to find a volunteer,

BEHS will deduct trailering expenses (at $1/mile round trip) from the amount of the adoption fee refund.

 If the Adopter returns the above-described Equine to BEHS within a period of one year (12 months) from the date

of this contract, BEHS agrees to make a partial refund of $ 0 (1/2 the adoption fee) minus the cost of any

veterinary work needed as a result of injuries or illnesses sustained while in the Adopter?s possession. It is the

responsibility of the Adopter to provide transportation for the adopted equine when returning him or her to the

rescue. If the adopter is unable to do so and BEHS is able to find a volunteer, BEHS will deduct trailering expenses

(at $1/mile round trip) from the amount of the adoption fee refund.

 If the Adopter dies, his or her family will be allowed to keep the Equine providing they are able and willing to

provide a home for the Equine and maintain the Equine in accordance with the Minimum Standards of Care Policy.

 This contract may be altered or amended only upon written agreement of the Adopter and BEHS.

 The adopter agrees not to hold Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society liable in the event of injury, death, or damage

to any human, animal or property as a result of activities or actions of the equine. The Adopter agrees to assume

all liability associated with the Equine.

 The Adopter has read, understands, and will heed the following warning:

 UNDER TEXAS LAW (CHAPTER 87, CIVIL PRACTICE AND REMEDIES CODE), A FARM ANIMAL

PROFESSIONAL IS NOT LIABLE FOR AN INJURY TO OR THE DEATH OF A PARTICIPANT IN FARM ANIMAL

ACTIVITIES RESULTING FROM THE INHERENT RISKS OF FARM ANIMAL ACTIVITIES.This contract and all of its

provisions shall bind the heirs, executors, administrators, personal representatives, and assignees of the parties

hereto.

 If any portion of this contract is held to be invalid or unenforceable, all other portions shall continue in full force


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## Txshecat0423 (May 27, 2020)

I know someone who adopted from BEHS, and I don’t think some of that came into play for her. They may have changed up the contract at some point, but she definitely considers the horse hers and has moved it around to different facilities (still within the state though) and I highly doubt BEHS was contacted each and every time that horse moved.

I’m not an attorney and I think BEHS is considered a generally good entity, but I don’t see how some of those requirements or rules could possibly be enforced. I could be (and probably am!) wrong though 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Please let us know what questions you ask, and what the rescue responds with!

I've always wondered how enforceable any of that is... If money exchanges hands for something, a deal is as good as done in my mind. I do understand why rescues try to include clauses in their contracts (Minnie was actually returned/convinced to be returned from her first adopter due to the adopter failing to pay board or trim her hooves in 4+ months). Many of the clauses make sense, though, reading through them a second time. My first read through I closed the forum and took some time to think!

My "contract" for Minnie was just a sale contract, though. I'm sure she probably told me other things via our messages, but the contract is just our names, price paid and how, as well as a description of Minnie at the time.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I would probably sign the document, knowing that very little of it would actually be enforceable by law. 

For example, if they came to seize your horse and you failed to give the horse to them. They would have to prove in court that you both meant the same thing when you signed the agreement, and also prove that your side of the contract was not met. Proof of ownership of an animal generally comes down to historically who has been paying vet and boarding bills.

Even when someone actually steals your horse, it is difficult to get police involved and usually it is considered a civil matter. If the person who stole the horse has been paying the bills and caring for the horse recently, they can claim you sold the horse to them and they just didn't get a bill of sale. An acquaintance had someone steal a horse and they were told it was a civil matter. Their only recourse was to go in the night and steal the horse back (which they literally did). 

With this document that gives the care of the horse over to you, it is extremely unlikely a court would allow the rescue to take the horse back if you have been paying all the bills. It is also extremely unlikely a rescue would take you to court. I believe most rescues have these agreements because they feel it will deter a horse from being neglected. In reality, I believe it deters people from adopting horses.

In a case I saw recently locally, when neighbors reported horse neglect, the horses were seized by the county. None of the former owners or breeders with contracts that the horses would come back to them had any rights to take the horses back. The county and the rescue the horses were sent to were legally allowed to rehome the horses to other places. The rescue said the former breeders and owners had misjudged and allowed the horses to end up in a bad home, so for the horses' safety they would not get the horses back.

This could also be true if you neglected Rowan and he was seized by local animal control. The rescue that allowed him to be placed in a bad situation would not necessarily get ownership of him again. So these pieces of paper mean very little, and especially if you move out of state. They have no way to require you to send updates or to legally confiscate your horse. It's not like they can call the police and ask them to go and pick up the horse.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 109*

Cold snap! It was 15 when I got there and 25 when I left, very windy but sunny. As I wrote in my other journal, my choice of clothing turned out to be just right. I had wool leggings and flannel lined khakis, a cotton tneck, a cashmere sweater, my barn coat that is lined with flannel, two pairs of wool socks, a wool gaiter/mask, and my wool hat. Oh, and thin wool "glove liners" (usually all I wear) plus some alpaca convertible mittens. I was comfortable the whole time -- didn't feel the need to take anything off but wasn't cold either. I was out there for just shy of three hours. 

I'm so glad the barn owner got those heated buckets. Because his water in the bucket was fine. His water in the big (25 gallon?) bucket had about three inches of ice on top. I kept breaking the ice, and the ice kept reforming! I was like, "This is Texas -- when someone breaks ice it is supposed to STAY broken!" But it didn't. So I spent a lot of time boiling water (my husband let me bring his water boiler), taking it to the bucket, and dumping it in. Eventually the water stopped icing over. And, Rowan appreciated it. I say that because one of the times I was taking the boiling water out, he wanted to drink from that bucket but I guess it was too cold and icy because he was hesitating and making faces. I dumped the boiling water in, let it swirl, and then he drank it happily!

The problem is, yes I had heated buckets but the water was turned off in my barn. I don't blame them. The groom did fill a metal trashcan full of water and bring it back, but it didn't go very far. I ended up boiling water in the big water boiler maybe 20 times, carrying it back and forth from the other barn. I also had brought about three gallons of water with me in plastic bottles, and I refilled them all a couple of times from the hose in the front that was running. When I left, all waters were completely full. Three of them were ice free. Moonshine's bug bucket was solid ice in the bottom one-third but liquid in the top. But it was in the sun and the ice on the ground was already melting despite the temperature being below freezing, so I hope hers will melt also.

Overall I wasn't too happy with Rowan's water consumption. He had mostly emptied his heated bucket, and obviously had a little from the big one, but that's not really a lot of water. So I made him a mush. I put alfalfa pellets and a little senior feed, plus a little salt, and poured the hot water into it.

He was surprised! I don't know if it was because it was warm (it wasn't HOT; I checked), or because it was wet, or because it was salty. But he kept putting his nose in there and eating a few bites and then looking up and snorting with a surprised look on his face. He did seem to like it, though, once he got used to it. And I do think the salt encouraged him to drink more. So I made him two more mushes. They weren't very big but they had a fair amount of water.

He was perfectly fine -- lots of nice poops, in good spirits, not too cold. I'm just paranoid now. 

Also I learned today that in this sort of weather, poop (1) freezes to the ground and (2) turns into rocks. I didn't know either of those things before.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

ACinATX said:


> Also I learned today that in this sort of weather, poop (1) freezes to the ground and (2) turns into rocks. I didn't know either of those things before.


Yup! We have lost many manure forks tines to frozen poop rocks. That is one good reason to keep around a tradition metal pitch fork and a flat spade or something similar if you have freezing weather. The barn I originally boarded my horses at years ago had run-ins for all of the horses, either with pebbled concrete floors or rubber mats. Doing chores was miserable in the winter with the frozen poop.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

We used to use tire irons to chip poop when I worked at the arab ranch! Here I just wait until it’s loose enough to pry in the milk cow pen. The horse corrals we clean with a tractor a couple times a year. It’s big enough though for that to be a fine plan.

As far as breaking water goes, we break water once a day. The horses drink then, or they break it a little later while it’s still possible for them to do.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

When I was in the process of adopting Sereno from Horse Protection Association of Florida, I was presented with a contract similar to what your is (not so in depth, but a lot of the same provisions). I asked the person in charge how many horses they adopt out every week. She said "about 3 a week." I think that's a little high, but probably they do 10 a month. They had been in business for 10 years at that time. So that's 120 horses a year, approximately. For 10 years, that's 1,200 horses that may have been placed in adoptive homes. At the time I got Sereno, they were overwhelmed with starved horses, sick horses, dangerous horses, untrained and unhandled horses. They were understaffed and overworked. They would have NO time to be driving an hour each way to check on 1,200 horses

When I got Arco Iris from them, I asked the manager how many people regularly send in e-mails telling how their horses were doing twice a year as requested. She said, "Very few." They had no time to check on the ones that didn't, although she did appreciate that I did.

I wouldn't worry much about that contract. I didn't worry about mine and never regretted it. If I wanted another horse, I would head straight back to Horse Protection Association of Florida and get myself one from them.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 110*

His big water had iced over again. I realized that the way to take the ice out (without having a net or something) was to take my gloves off first and just do it in my bare hands. Then dry my hands off immediately and put the gloves back on. Also the water at the back barn got turned back on so that was great.

Less great was what he did to his feed bucket. I hope none of it ended up inside of him.









After I did the chores, I made a labyrinth for him in the arena. I was going to take him through in hand. 









But he was super "up" (he had been in the stall / tiny paddock for 36 hours) and didn't want to focus. So I turned him loose in the arena to see if he wanted to run around. He ran around for about two seconds and was done. But when I haltered him up again he just wanted to eat the lead rope, and he was super looky. So I was like, he's not feeling it today, and put him in his small paddock. He ran around a lot in there. Then they turned his buddies out into the big pasture, which surprised me because the part where they turned them out was really icy. But none of the buddies had any problems, so I turned him out also. I had him follow me slowly at liberty across the ice. He was very smart and walked very slowly and examined the ground very carefully. He didn't slip.

I walked him out most of the way around the pond, then told him to go and started walking back, but he followed me. So I took him out a bit further and then slapped his butt and told him to go. He looked at me for a minute to see if I meant it, then he walked, then cantered off. So that was nice.

We left for Houston right after that. 

Here is the "winter wonderland" in front of the barn. Eek.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

This is what my daughter made for my birthday. She asked me what I wanted, and I said a poem about too many horses. So she made the poem and cut out all of the horses and glued everything on. I think it's very very clever. 

The black one is Pony, the blue one is Moonshine (blue roan), the orange one is Teddy, and the brown one is Rowan.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Oh, that's absolutely priceless and amazing. Your daughter is so talented. And the cut-outs just make it perfect. That's a gift to treasure all your life.


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## Txshecat0423 (May 27, 2020)

I love that poem! She’s very talented, and Happy Birthday  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

knightrider said:


> Oh, that's absolutely priceless and amazing. Your daughter is so talented. And the cut-outs just make it perfect. That's a gift to treasure all your life.


Ditto! And Happy Birthday!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 113*

He seemed a little off today. He seemed like his front foot was maybe a little worse than usual. I ended up riding him anyways, but he wasn't very forward feeling. Also he seemed clean when I took his turnout sheet off, but I didn't check his girth area and apparently his girth was bothering him. When I stopped during our ride, he put his head down between his front legs to bite at the girth. I didn't realize that was what he was doing until he did the same thing without me on. Let me tell you, it is not the best feeling when your green horse puts his head down between his front legs and starts biting at his stomach -- I thought he was going to fall over. I tried to lean back to balance him out. He didn't actually fall over, so maybe it worked?

So I took off the saddle and picked all the bits of crud off his girth area and put it back on and just worked with him from the ground with the saddle on. He didn't seem bothered by it again.

Also we rode a lot today, maybe 10 minutes? More than we had ridden before. We did a lot of turns. He's starting to throw his outside shoulder out when I tip his head in, and then move laterally. Which isn't what I'm asking for, but I don't know how I feel about it. Lateral movement = good but throwing his shoulder out = bad. Hopefully the trainer is coming tomorrow and she can work with us and help me figure out what I should keep, movement wise, and how to get rid of the other.

He didn't feel "off" at the walk, just slower than usual. I don't know, maybe I shouldn't have ridden him. I do think I'm going to start putting keratex on his front soles. The farrier thought the reason he was tender footed was because his soles are thin and soft.

He doesn't like stepping over from the haunches. Or, to be more clear, maybe what he doesn't like is thinking that he is going to be poked back there. He swishes his tail, even when I get him to move over by just putting a fly's weight of pressure on him. I'm wondering if maybe he has hundgut ulcers, in which case the $$$ ulcer treatment he's on probably isn't going to solve the problem. I don't want him to start associating me riding him with unpleasant feelings on his sides. I haven't used my legs at all when riding him yet but I expect that to change soon.

Overall I just felt meh about what we did. The meh is because he wasn't very into it today, and I can't tell if that's because he was hurting or because he just didn't feel like it.

I took a video afterwards, but the quality isn't too great. I think this is the first time I've ever been able to take a video while roundpenning a horse, and I think that's pretty obvious. I can't tell if he really seems lame or not. I feel like his walk is extra slow, his trot is choppier and less extended than usual, and there might be a couple of head bobs at the trot.






*Highlight of the day: he still loves to line himself up at the mounting block! I think it is one of his favorite things. I can't help but wonder if that's because I let him figure out how to do it himself.*


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

He does look off to me, especially knowing he normally has a stretchier movement. 

Since he's barely started, I suggest not thinking about him throwing a shoulder out or anything other than moving forward under saddle. Even following his nose comes after "forward." It's pretty normal to move in all directions, even backward while a horse is figuring out the initial steps. But you want to instill the idea of movement first and foremost. 

Even if you don't do dressage, the training pyramid has the right focus with rhythm and relaxation as the first steps to riding. Forward, relaxed movement is super important. Much more important than steering and precision. It's much harder to train a horse that isn't moving, and it's much harder to get a horse moving that hasn't been taught to first move forward in a relaxed manner.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

He does not look happy. Is there a reason you leave the stirrups down? If I was a horse I would not like loose stirrups bumping my sides. It is safest to always roll up your stirrups while not mounted. They could hit you or your horse in the head if they start to swing.


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## twhvlr (Jul 5, 2017)

I don’t ride English so this may be way off base but is the saddle too far forward.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

I should have asked in my first post, but what do you mean about crust between his front legs? Do you groom him before tacking him up?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

updownrider said:


> I should have asked in my first post, but what do you mean about crust between his front legs? Do you groom him before tacking him up?


I groom them if they need it. He didn't seem to need to need it since he had the turnout sheet on and was clean underneath. What I meant is he just had some tiny bits of dried mud or something here and there on his girth area.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

just watched the video. I've seen him moving in your other videos, and this vid shows a horse moving in a defensive posture. He is very stiff in his whole barrel, but I think he seems to be most careful and protective about his left hind leg. I think just kind of watching him for a few days to see how he is in general; could he be experiencing some mild colic, or maybe a hoof issue.? time will reveal, but in the now, it isn't bad enough to worry a lot. But I agree that he does look 'off' .

And, I agree with @gottatrot ; he needs to be very confident in just forward first , as a foundation to training. Then learning to follow his nose (which means how to follow the feel on the rein that positions his nose). Lateral work comes much later, and in fact comes initially as a result of teaching him to follow his nose into a hind end disengagement. That connects the rein to the hind end. No leg at all, really.

anyway,, rambling off again . . . are you born on Christmas?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

tinyliny said:


> are you born on Christmas?


Christmas Eve!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 114*

I sent that video to the trainer and she didn't think he looked too bad. Then she said something that I wish she hadn't, which was something like "If he's a little off you can just give him bute before the lesson."

So I texted her first thing in the morning saying that I needed to assess him myself before committing to her coming. I told her I didn't want to ride him if he was physically uncomfortable and wasn't OK with giving him bute just so we could have a lesson.

Luckily he was fine this morning, so I had her come. She did say that she thought about what she had written afterwards and didn't want to make it sound like she thought we should just work him regardless. She just meant if he had a little muscle soreness then maybe we could give him a little bute so he'd feel better. And she didn't condone working a horse in pain. So I was glad she said that.

He was definitely better. I could not only see it, but when I rode him I could feel it. His nice walk was back. We walked a lot, did a lot of turns, and even a number of small circles. She suggested that I not use my opening rein the whole time he was turning, but use it to signal him to begin the turn and try to get him to keep turning without it. We also introduced legs as a go forward cue. We backed up! (about 1/4 of a step LOL, but we did it several times so maybe it added up to one step in the end). And we trotted!

She's back to thinking he's gaited on account of his trot. I don't know. His trot LOOKS perfectly normal, from the ground. But it FELT *WEIRD*. I mean, WEIRD. Rather than feeling his butt moving up and down, it felt like it was going strongly side to side. And she said what he was doing wasn't quite a trot. I wish we had gotten a video. Maybe I'll go back out tomorrow and have my daughter take a vide. I REALLY want to see what that looks like. 

He got a little "up" after several small trotting sessions so I walked him again for a while. Then I told the trainer "I want him to sigh." You know, so I'd know he felt OK. She told me to stop him. I did, he stood for a few seconds, then he sighed! Amazing LOL.

We also worked on standing still for longer periods of time. That went OK. But by the end of the lesson it was great. I was just standing there with totally loose reins and he was not interested at all in walking off.

I had shown her how he likes to line himself up at the mounting block. She got a kick out of that. But after I got off, I mentioned that I wanted to work on it from the right also, and she said "How about now?" So we tried but he wasn't too fond of it. He wasn't really worried, it's just that you could tell in his mind this was all very wrong. She said "You're not going to be able to train him to line himself up to the right." We'll see...

So overall he did great. I really want to ride him again tomorrow because the bodyworker might be coming, and after she comes I'm not supposed to do a lot of work with him for a day or two. Also I'm not sure if he might be sore? We spent a lot of time mounted, maybe half an hour?

Finally, I dewormed him. The vet had done a fecal and said he needed to be dewormed with Ivemectin. It had been about five hours since he got the gastrogard, so I hope that was OK. Also I tasted it before giving it to him and it was AWFUL! It just tasted like nothing but bitter. Yuck. Poor horses. The things they accept from us.

After that, I turned him back out but he wanted to come into the one stall that connects to that outer pasture and doze in the sun. He deserved it! He worked hard!

*Highlight of the day: first trot! If in fact it was a trot LOL.*


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## boatagor (Jun 27, 2017)

Was he doing any head nodding during the weird trot? Side to side motion is usually a lateral gait vs diagonal. And your mileage may vary but Dylan doesn't gait on his own, only under saddle. If he's out at liberty, he trots. And because I'm not experienced with gaited horses, I assumed he was trotting under saddle at times when really he was pacing.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Day 115

I thought he got a lot of riding yesterday, so I didn't want to do too much today. Basically I just wanted to get videos of him trotting. Which I did. The thing is, it's definitely a trot at least some of the time, but other times I'm not so sure. I started a new thread about that. 

We're still not always having success standing still at the mounting block. I'll just have to continue working on it.

Also, Rowan's preference for going right is even more clear under saddle:






Here he is trotting or something:






After I was done, we were still in the round pen and he wanted to play with this horse that gets turned out in the pony pasture now. So I took off his tack and just shooed him out the round pen. He had a lot of fun. He is like a rambunctious little kid -- he just wants to play play play. The geldings in his usual pasture are older and don't really want to play with him.

The bodyworker came but I didn't stick around much after that. I had promised my daughter we wouldn't be out there too long.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

He’s trotting, not gaited


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 116*

The bodyworker keeps telling me how much she likes him. She said that he seems less sensitive around his back abdomen than before, so maybe the Gastogard IS working? She said he still has some sensitivity, though. She said she got a lot more work done back there, but there was a point where he lifted his leg and looked at her, and she understood that he had had enough. She appreciates that he communicates, and does it nicely. 

He seems to understand that her job is to make him feel good. He seems to try to present her with whatever part of him is feeling sore, and when she works on it he is really enthusiastic about it. He communicates well with her and appreciates the work. Every time she's worked on him, except for the first time and the colic time, he's had really huge releases. She and I both keep thinking "This is his last big session" but it keeps not being true. I'm super glad she's working on him. I don't know his history of course, but it's really amazing for a (presumably) unstarted four-year-old to keep having significant body issues. The bodyworker thinks there might be some mental trauma buried in there that's contributing. Who knows. I've said before that I don't think he was abused, but being starved and neglected can't be very fun either.

She felt that he had some soreness in his right shoulder, so I'm going to put the saddle back on him and evaluate and see if it's already not fitting. I do have the shimmable pad, and I could take one of the shims on the right shoulder out if needed. Also I got an email that the saddle fitter is coming out in a couple of weeks, so I may take advantage of that. The saddle I'm riding him in is wool-flocked, so there would be some adjustment possible, but not a lot. If it's already really not fitting him I don't know what I'll do. Seems kind of early to be buying him a saddle that fits really well, as he might probably will change shape as he starts developing muscles. OTOH he won't develop muscles very well if his saddle doesn't fit and it causes pain and then he can't move right.

The trainer suggested to start riding him in the arena, at the walk only at first. I will do that, if I can find a time when it's not being used.

Speaking of muscles, the barn owner came and watched me round pen him and had a bunch of comments about how I need to get this system and that system to work him to build muscle, as he is currently lacking in that department. I am unlikely to do that. I am generally not a fan of systems, and I'm terrible at tack. If it's a system that requires an intelligent and knowledgeable person to use it, then that's out. And if it doesn't, then I kind of start suspecting that it's not very good to begin with.

He's getting the tri-amino supplement and will continue to get it. If he doesn't start developing muscles in the next couple of months, when I'm hopefully riding him regularly, then I'll start thinking about systems and what-not.

I've also decided to back off on bitting until the dentist comes out in late January. He goes fine the way I have him now (reins attached to halter) and I got the bitless bridle also. I just can't tell if he didn't like the bit, or the bitting process, or if it was just too new to him or what. I am going to ask the dentist, given his mouth shape / size, what would be a good bit for him. The lady at South Texas Tack suggested looking into a ported bit. I have no problems with ported bits, but I don't want to keep throwing bits at him randomly ($$$). I'd like to know what would be most likely to be comfortable for him first.

Tack problems. The story of my life LOL.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 117*

Today in my lesson on Pony I did a lot of practicing for a better two-point that was not hunched over and was not throwing Pony on the forehand ("hips back! hips back!" LOL). The idea being I want a better two-point for riding Rowan in the trot, if I'm still unable to post his trot. I also asked the instructor if, not next lesson but the one after that, if she could ride Pony and I could ride Rowan. One of my books made the point that you need to be sure they can be ridden around other horses, particularly if one horse is doing one thing but you want your horse to do something else. I had asked my daughter if she would do this, but she made a good point that since Pony hates Rowan, if he were to lunge at him she wouldn't know what to do to stop it. Moonshine used to sideswipe other horses in lessons, and my daughter could never work her through it. I know how, now, but anyways better safe than sorry. Maybe if Pony is OK then we could move on to my daughter and I riding him and Rowan together. This isn't a sneaky way to get her back into horses, but rather something really helpful that she could do.

List of things to do before this group lesson:

Stop more consistently
Better response to rein aids
Once stopped, will stay stopped
More consistent trotting
Hmm, maybe I should make it three lessons away, not two. Well, we'll see how it goes. Anyways, I did get a better two-point position. I also asked her how still my hands were when I post, because I was worried about that also. She said they were very still, so that's good.

After my lesson, I walked Rowan around the jumping arena, which he was mostly fine with. He did start thinking about nipping me. I'm thinking that might be a stress response. I don't know. I came up with a really good way to get him off me and back where I want him, so I'm happy with that. We then went to a part of the property where he's only been once. He was OK but somewhat less so. I am starting to think that I might be interpreting his lack of spookiness as him being OK with new things, but incorrectly so. I mean, I think he's a little more worried about new things than I had thought. So that's good, we'll walk up there again in the future, and further also.

(I wasn't riding him on account of him getting bodywork on Thursday)

He DID have a spook in place, though. I took him over to one of the gates to the dressage arena, where the ground is concrete (new to him?), and then opened the "gate", which is basically a piece of thick PVC piping that fits into the pipe fencing of the arena. It went SCHHHHHHHHKKKKK and he didn't like that. So I led him through the gate and turned him around, gave him some extra rope so he could scoot back if he wanted, and closed it. Then I opened and closed it a bunch. He was slightly concerned the first time and uninterested after that.

The dressage arena has a different style of mounting block, so I thought we'd try what I now call "mounting block fun" over there. At first he was more interested in checking out the horse in the paddock next door, but then he came over and lined himself up. It wasn't as good as with the other two mounting blocks, but we worked on it and he enjoyed it. We then walked over a series of ground poles at liberty. I was trying to use my body language to keep him going and keep him over the exact middle of each pole. It was successful! We did it the other way also. It's kind of interesting -- you have to push him away while pulling him in, with your body language, at the same time. If you push too hard, he will just walk to the side and not over the poles or at least not over the middle. If you pull him in too much he will run over you. I was really happy with how he did.

Speaking of running over me, he stepped on my foot today. I went in for a hug, and I guess he kind of did too. Poor guy was really baffled and unhappy with the yelling that followed. I can tell you, being stepped on by a horse definitely hurts more than being stepped on by a Pony.

Tomorrow I hope to ride him in the arena, as opposed to the round pen.

ETA: I got there early enough that I gave him his medicine this morning. I showed him his feed bucket and he understood. I put my hand gently on his poll, he lowered his head and easily took the medicine, then he got his reward. Honestly he is so easy to give oral medications to, it's crazy. It's like he is still in that starvation mode, and anything in his mouth is good.

*Highlight of the day: walking over a series of ground poles, at liberty, with precision.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 118*

I rode Rowan in the arena today. I don't know, he might not like the deep sand in there. I might try him in the other arena next time. He walked OK, although he did get a bit pokey at times. I made him stay in his good walk. He started lowering his head quite a lot, and that seemed good to me. Someone was cantering in the other arena, then someone not too far off was shooting off fireworks, then some little kid was running around. He didn't care. The only external thing that interested him during the ride was his gelding buddies getting turned out.

But. I couldn't get a trot out of him at all. I tried several times. I tried sitting and in two-point. It was terrible. It was just this slow shuffling thing where all of his feet seemed to be doing different things; even his head seemed wobbly and not steerable. It's part of why I'm wondering if he doesn't like that deeper sand. I did lunge him in there before I rode him, both ways, walk and trot, and he trotted out fine. So maybe next time I will try to free lunge him around the whole arena, or maybe I will ride him in the other arena where the footing is more shallow. If it comes down to it, I'll go back into the round pen or I'll get my instructor to lunge him with me on his back in that arena.

I did re-assess the saddle yesterday and I think it more or less fits him. Having said that, I asked to be tentatively put on the schedule for the saddle fitter when she comes.

We also worked on backing up under saddle and he did great at that. I'm also still working on bridging our click "go forward" cue into squeezing with legs. I guess everything except the trot went pretty well.

After that I turned him out and did Pony things. But after an hour or so, I started thinking "I don't think they ever put hay out in that gelding pasture." So I went out there to look around. Rowan saw me coming and came over to see what I was doing and to generally be friendly. I didn't find any hay so I walked back to the barn and of course he followed me the whole way. I got a bale of hay and the cart and brought it over to the part of their pasture that borders Moonshine's paddock, so it wasn't so far to walk, and laid it out. He had already decided that I had left and was halfway back across the pasture but he came when I called him, and he got to eat the hay by himself for a while. The point of all of this is, he's still really happy to see me -- he gets such a nice happy face! -- even though we are several weeks into his riding career. So I feel like so far I'm doing a good job! 😃

*Highlight of the day: I rode him in the arena!*


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I suspect if he trotted fine on the lunge before you rode him that he is a little confused about what you want under saddle. Rather than the footing being the concern.

I'll say again that it's very important to not think much about steering or head cues until the horse is going really forward under saddle. They have to get the idea first that they move out with a rider. Of course it's good that he's not spurting forward and out of control. But still, you almost want a little of that feel at first, that the horse is moving and you don't have a lot of control about where they are going, as part of getting it solidly in their brain that they move out when you ride them. 

For three or four rides on a newly started horse, I have them moving forward and we're nowhere near the rail, or making any type of straight line or circle. We're just moving. We zoom around in any direction, and all I care about is if the horse is responding to walk and trot cues. If a horse has to think about what cues mean relating to left, right, speed control, it's too easy to inhibit the learning of moving forward with a rhythm.

Your cue to trot has to be very clear to a newly started horse, even to the point of startling him if necessary. He does not know subtle leg or seat cues. Something I've learned starting horses is that you progress from very loud and clear cues to more gentle ones. To turn, you make a solid pull. To go forward, you may need a solid thud of your legs on the horse's side. The key is to be very clear and to make sure the horse responds so you can give the praise and release. Later, when he knows that a strong nudge on the side means to go, you can make it much more subtle. But if you are saying "trot," and giving a nudge, and he is not trotting, right now is the time when you are teaching him to respond to a cue or ignore it, so you have to be very clear that what you just did means trot, even to the point of swinging the reins, or giving a good kick to get him moving.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

ACinATX said:


> But. I couldn't get a trot out of him at all. I tried several times. I tried sitting and in two-point. It was terrible. It was just this slow shuffling thing where all of his feet seemed to be doing different things; even his head seemed wobbly and not steerable.


I have found this to be true with just about every colt I have started. @gottatrot says it very well. It's one way I can tell if a seller is lying. When I got Aci, I was told he was ridden all summer in North Carolina. I got on him, he was doing as you describe, I said, "Ummm, no, I don't think so." That is how just-started colts do. It gets better, and it will for you too.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 119

Ride 6*

I decided to put ride numbers as well, since right now I think that's more relevant than days. I'm thinking it's about ride six, if you only count the rides where I was on him for more than five minutes.

I lunged him in the arena again first, but I also, like I was thinking, kind of free lunged him around the arena as well, in particular trying to get a trot. He picked up the trot just fine, although he also cantered a couple of times. But it was enough for me to feel like, yes there is nothing in particular about the arena that is giving him problems.

Actually we started with "mounting block fun," since he really likes that. I like to start him with something he enjoys.

He held still at the mounting block when I was actually mounting this time, at least long enough to get his reward.

So what I wanted to do was make the bridge to legs=forward today, and to ride him really forward at the walk. We're going to forget about the trot for now. I liked the suggestion that I need to be clear that if I'm asking to trot, then he needs to trot, and if I need to use stronger legs to do that then I should. BUT, he's not understanding legs as a go-forward cue yet, so that's not really fair.

He did, by the middle of the session, pick up the legs=forward cue, without voice command. So that's really good. We reinforced that about half a dozen times. We'll see if he remembers it next time.

I wish I had had someone video his walk. He gets this really fast walk that feels like... I've been trying to figure out a way in my head to explain it. It feels like his back feet move "before", or that they are ahead of the front feet, or that those footfalls are going faster in relation to his fronts. None of that makes any sense, physically, but that's what it feels like. Or maybe, if a regular walk is step-step step-step, his fast walk is stepSTEP stepSTEP. I don't know, maybe this is what a real horse's walk feels like LOL. Pony and Moonshine both had pokey walks and I don't remember Teddy's very well.

So I really wanted him to keep that nice fast walk (he did drop his head down and feel like he was pushing from the back, at least to me, so it wasn't like he was rushed and hollowed out). So when he wanted to drop out of it, I pushed him forward again. And we ended up trotting LOL. The first time was terrible, also I was really confused about it ("Wait... we're trotting? Didn't I say we weren't going to?"). But then he did it again. And I realized he was doing it when we were going downhill. The arena is essentially flat, but it does have a slight slope to it, and every time I'd ask for a faster walk on the downhill part, he'd start rolling with that fast walk and then start trotting.

So we trotted! We did maybe four trots and they were OK. He got less discombobulated each time.

I rode him for about 20 minutes, mostly at the walk. We practiced backing up too, and he's already much better at it. 

It was 75 degrees and muggy and he was a bit sweaty by the end of it. He doesn't SEEM to have much of a winter coat, but maybe he does?

*Highlight of the day: he understands legs (alone) as a go-forward cue.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Oh I forgot to mention, the foal escaped while I was in the arena with Rowan (the foal didn't get into the arena, to be clear; I had the gates closed to be on the safe side). OMG foals. They are just so cute and so full of life. His little trot was so energetic and prancy, and then he started cantering around. He was just so ... yeah, I can only say full of life. He's adorable. Some of the other horses started running around also, and Rowan was definitely interested, but he stayed where he was. This was when we were doing the mounting block fun, so he could have walked off but he didn't. Of course, I WAS giving him pellets at the time, but still. I like that he stayed with me.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 120*

*Ride 7*

Rowan did remember that squeeze with the legs means go forward, so that's good. His backing up is also improving. He did it today without the voice prompt. Trot is still iffy. I am definitely going to ride him in the dressage arena next time, and see if that makes a difference. We did get one where he really jumped into it -- there might have been a canter stride in there, I'm not sure. 

Mostly we rode at the walk. I was thinking "we will trot today" so I didn't work so much on his forward walk, but then the trot didn't go too well either, so maybe I should have just done the walk. Seems like whichever one I pick, I don't get LOL. Really all we accomplished was verifying that he can start and back without a voice cue. We did work through an issue he had with one spot in the arena, I guess. We worked on it several times, and when he went through that spot with minimal fuss I stopped him and got off and just ended it there. We worked for 20-25 minutes.

But, I taught him to free lunge and that was really nice. What I mean by free lunge is that he lunges around me in a circle, but without the lunge rope and not in the round pen. He actually picked it up really quickly. I went back to it after I rode him because I thought he'd enjoy it some more. I was super happy with him. I also got a bit of senior feed to reward him with, as opposed to the usual alfalfa pellets, because I was just really impressed with how quickly he picked it up. We even worked on it at the trot. It wasn't perfect, but he was pretty good! The interesting thing about the trot is, he chose to expand the circle himself. He went from a maybe 8 meter circle to more like a 15 meter circle. So that suggests that if I'm going to lunge him on the line and ask him to trot, maybe I need to give him more line.

I had taught Pony to do this, but he had a hard time at the trot. It's really interesting, you have to pull them in with body language while also pushing them out and forward with body language. Which also means they have to be VERY focused on you. Pony wasn't. He could do it at the walk but wasn't too great at the trot. Rowan, however, is very focused on me, which I guess is why he picked it up easily. That and all the Bill Dorrance "one foot forward, one foot back" that we did. What I mean is, that got us working together on physical cues first, which then translated really nicely into visual cues. So Rowan I can communicate very effectively to Rowan via body language and gestures.

Of course we did "mounting block fun" also. I think we'll have to do that every time. He really enjoys it.

Afterwards I asked him to follow me at liberty back to his stall. He did pause to smell grass a couple of times but overall he did great. I mean, it's not like that is that difficult, but still I'm glad he did. My favorite part was, after I opened the gate from the arena, I made him stand there for a second. He wanted to just rush out. He rushes gates sometimes.

I led him the long way back to his pasture. Today, my dread of leading him is gone. I don't know if it was because of that one short session or because I've finally decided that he's good enough at leading that I can get lazy about it. What I mean is, unless I'm asking for it, he can walk behind me, or to my right, or to my left. Just not in front of me and obviously not into me. He did almost walk into me one time, but I saw it out of the corner of my eye and I stopped suddenly and dramatically. He did too, LOL. He was like "Whoops."

I forgot to mention, he was muddy when I got there! He had rolled! He was muddy on both sides! I mention this because he is very very very rarely muddy. I think he might have had a little mud on him once, and that's it. This has always secretly worried me -- why doesn't he roll? What other thing is wrong with him? So now I'm wondering if maybe he was having pain from ulcers and it's better now and he's finally able to roll? Or maybe the fact that he's in work now makes him want to massage those muscles? I was very glad to see him muddy today. One suspects I will become less glad as he (hopefully) continues to roll.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I signed the adoption contract yesterday. I am deferring concerns about --and problems related to-- the contract terms to future me. Sorry, future me.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 122 

Ride 8*

I had a day to think about our last ride, and I didn't like it. I felt like we were fighting each other, and I don't want our rides to go like that. I re-read part of the Bill Dorrance book and I felt like he was telling me I needed to back up a lot, figure out what I was doing wrong, and fix it.

I do agree, in theory, that you want a forward attitude before steering is that important, but when I let Rowan have his head he just walks up to the fence and stopped. And also we have had some nice rides where he was very forward at the walk. So no doubt I will regret this, but I want to focus on steering. Last ride I was having to use way more pressure than I wanted, at least in the middle of the ride, and neither of us was happy about that. I wanted to have a happy ride today.

First of all, he stayed at the mounting block for a LONG time (I mean after I got on) and he got a lot of rewards for that. Maybe we are finally over that issue.

With respect to steering, I started off using less pressure than last time, and that worked OK. I also decided, OK, I don't care if he goes exactly here or exactly there, as long as he's generally going in the direction I want I won't correct him. He appreciated that. But when I did want to correct him, again it took more pressure than I wanted. So I stopped him and we worked on turning his head from rein pressure at the stop. It didn't go very well at all! I'd just hold the rein with a little pressure and wait, and wait, and wait... and eventually he'd sort of think about turning his head that way, like he'd twitch his ear a little or something, so I'd release. But we did that over and over and over again and it really didn't get any better.

So, for whatever reason, I got us going again, and what I did instead was I just thought about where I wanted us to go. And you know what? It worked. It worked SO well! I couldn't believe it. I wouldn't have thought at this point that I could just think something and he'd do it, but I was wrong. We rode big circles around the arena, did changes of direction, and did figure eights. Almost entirely with just thought. So I guess he was showing me that even what I thought wasn't a lot of pressure was more than he needed. Well, at least  I  _we _got it sorted out. After that, we had a NICE ride and we were both happy. However, I cut it short because he was doing really well and I wanted to end on that note.

Not much else to say. I think his feet are starting to get a little better, which is great. I told him that I had adopted him and he was like "What is adopted?" You know how horses are -- they just don't get it LOL.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

ACinATX said:


> I signed the adoption contract yesterday. I am deferring concerns about --and problems related to-- the contract terms to future me. Sorry, future me.


Great news! I'm so happy for you and Rowan.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 123*

Note to self for tomorrow. Work on:

turning head from rein pressure, on ground first then mounted if that goes well. turning from just a thought is great but he does need to respond nicely to rein aids.
touching sheath area -- dentist is coming in three weeks and I want that really cleaned, and he kicked with the other vet
work and maybe ride in dressage arena


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 124*

*Ride 9*

Things didn't go as planned today. I did work on touching his sheath area, and it seems like he's a lot better about it than he was. I did get one little foot raised, and I told him gently in a sort of tsk-tsk voice: "no kicking" and he put it back down. Then, kind of interestingly, he changed position. He moved over to his "Rowan gets a treat" position, which is where he stands with his shoulder next to me, parallel to me, but about a foot away, his head straight ahead but his ear cocked hopefully in my direction. I did give him a treat. I like it when he remembers where he's supposed to be relative to me, and I thought it was a very polite way of him saying he'd rather we not continue the sheath touching exercise any more. We can work on it more tomorrow.

The dressage arena was being used for a lesson, but she was finishing up when I was getting Rowan ready, so I set up some ground poles and obstacles in there. I was hoping to go around and over them. However, we were just getting started with mounting block fun when my instructor came over and said she needed to do a lesson in there. The dressage arena is the smallest arena we have, and she had a true beginner lesson, so she needed the smaller space.

So I had him follow me over to arena 3, which is where we've historically worked. In retrospect, I don't know why I didn't just go to the jumping arena, since that's also a new place for him, but I didn't. 

I didn't really lunge him before I got on. I just "free lunged" him at the walk a couple of times. He didn't really stand still when I got on, and he wasn't super attentive to my stop cues either. I rode him for maybe five-ten minutes and thought "Maybe I should have lunged him first." So I got off, got the lunging stuff out, and lunged him. He wasn't too enthusiastic about that.

Then I got on him and he was better but not much. I had worked on rein cues from the ground, but once again mounted he wasn't too great. So I thought I'd do what Bill Dorrance kind of hinted at, but what was better explained in Tom Dorrance's book, which was to just get with Rowan where he wanted to be. So basically I let him tell me where he wanted to go, and then I cued him to go there and praised him for it. I didn't let him stop at a fence -- I headed that off. And I didn't let him walk over the poles (the ones in there were round, and I am worried he might step on one and have it roll and have a bad early experience of going over poles under saddle). But otherwise we went where he wanted. 

That was fine, but he seems to be getting pokier every ride. I thought back to what the bodyworker said about his right shoulder being sore, and I looked down at the saddle. I felt like that actually might be the problem. It looks OK without someone sitting in it, but with someone sitting in it, it did seem like it was pressing down on his shoulders. So I got off again and took off the saddle. My instructor had just finished her lesson, so I asked her if she could hold him while I got on bareback. I wasn't entirely sure how he would feel about that, even though I know the groom got on him bareback once.

He was fine. I do think his walk was better. So I'm thinking I'll just ride him bareback between now and when the saddle fitter comes out. Then I'll get her opinion. I'll ride him in the bareback pad with another pad underneath it next time. He was actually fairly comfortable, but I feel like for his sake maybe it would be nice to have a couple of pads. I rode him that way for another five-ten minutes and was happy with it.

I let him eat grass afterwards. I turned Teddy out in that area also. Rowan has been acting tough when Teddy walks past his stall -- pinning his ears and making suggestive head motions. I think it's because Teddy is just nicer than Pony, even though Teddy is the boss of Pony. So I was kind of getting tired of that. I think Rowan needs to understand that Teddy is the boss of him. I kept a close eye on them. Rowan did not make any faces at all. He did sniff Teddy's butt once. Teddy told him "stop that" in a nice way and he immediately stopped and left. So I guess they are clear on who is the boss.

I stayed around for a while afterwards. Once again the gelding pasture has no hay, so I brought him some hay and then sat while he ate it. I took some pictures, too. I was hoping to get some showing how nice he looks now. I think I got a couple.

*Highlight of the day: I rode him bareback and he was fine with it.*


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I forgot to mention we had a little incident in the hay barn. I had left Rowan loose on the grass while I went to go get Pony to put him away. I saw Rowan heading toward the hay barn and thought "don't go all the way in there" but he did. (Maybe I will just go and clean up those pallets tomorrow.) The problem is there are a bunch of hay bales stacked against the back wall, and in front of them are the pallets where hay used to be. The pallets are bad wood and the hay on top of them makes them very slippery. So he took a couple of steps. I should have just called him, but I didn't. He took some more steps, and the boards started breaking. This made him nervous so he turned to the side, but he still had a lot of pallets to get over. More boards broke. His feet were slipping a little. His eyes started getting really big. That's when I grabbed him and pulled him out. Before he could fully panic, but after he was almost out of it. I'm glad I had decided to put his halter on.

Now if Pony had gone in there, I would have been annoyed because he shouldn't be in there, but I wouldn't have worried. I don't know if he has more common sense, or it's because he's lighter or more sure-footed, or more confident or what. But when he goes in there he doesn't almost die. He goes in, walks around, realizes it's the same hay he has in the pasture, maybe pees in it (  ) and leaves. I don't worry about him in there. Rowan, I worry about, and I think rightly so. My gut feelings just tell me he's an injury waiting to happen. I hope somehow that changes as he gets older and hopefully wiser.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Rowan looks great!
Maybe Teddy is not the boss of Rowan. I've learned herd dynamics are not always linear. Teddy could be the boss of Pony, Pony could be the boss of Rowan, and Rowan could be the boss of Teddy. Lol.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 125*

*Ride 10*

So, yes, I am thinking poor saddle fit now. I rode him today and it was a lot better. He didn't seem as stressed as he had yesterday, and he wasn't pokey either. He wasn't exactly zippy, but I thought we'd take it a bit easy today because I don't know how much soreness he has from that saddle. I mean... I'll see what the saddle fitter says when she comes, but I'm starting to think that saddle might not work out for him, even with reflocking. We'll see.

There's a lot to not like here -- my shoulders are forward, my legs are too grippy I think, or something. They're not right. And there were times when he wanted to go one direction and I wanted to go another direction, and I compromised by accepting us just going straight. In retrospect I'm not sure I like that. However, he felt a lot better than he did yesterday. We had some very nice stops from minimal pressure. And I liked the backing up we did.

I'm posting these videos for posterity. (Well, I'm posting the lining up at the mounting block one because I'm proud of that.) What I mean is, these are the videos that hopefully I'll come back and look at in a few months and say "Wow we weren't very good then, but look how far we've come!" LOL. If anyone has any constructive criticism that mentions something I didn't already call out, I guess mention it. This wasn't a pretty ride IMO but for our first ride where we were bareback the whole time, I think it's OK. Next time I ride him bareback (probably not until next weekend -- I want to give him some time off) I will focus more on relaxing my legs and doing better with my back.

The instructor is coming back out next Monday (not tomorrow).

I also worked on touching him in some places where he doesn't want to be touched, and he wasn't really wanting to do that. He let me know that he'd prefer eating hay to being touched in those places and getting treats, so I let him. 

The thing that's kind of cool about the mounting block video is the last time he stepped forward, I didn't tchhh my tongue to get him to step forward. I just said "Can you step forward?" and he did.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

You two look great! Rowan is really good at the mounting block and he looks proud of himself when he does it. He seems eager to please, with a lovely temperament. I think you are wise to avoid riding him in a saddle he is showing signs of restricted movement in. This ride looks very positive, a good building block for a happy riding horse.

Eta: I forgot to say that is a good marching walk, and he's trusting your decision to walk around a space, which especially confuses green horses since they don't see the point.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

You have definitely improved!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Now that you own Rowan why are you making do with a saddle that _no_t fit him nor think it is one you enjoy riding in??
I don't understand....
I also see no point in spending $$ for a fitter to work a saddle that again...thought you not like and obviously does not do well for the horse.
Since your daughter no longer rides what about her saddle ?
Or just getting a nice fitting used saddle for Rowan as you know he is going to change shape as he matures and develops muscle he right now lacks truly....
You don't need to be part of "the fad" of current as you are a long way from this horse being show ring ready....used, probably $500 or less and how much is the fitter?
Yea, a good part of the way headed in the direction of good fit, happy horse.✔
Maybe trade this one for a different, better one for Rowans build......
🐴


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@horselovinguy this saddle that I've been using on him is my daughter's old saddle. Now that I have the seat saver for it, it's comfortable enough for me. I'd rather spend $200 having this lady reflock it to fit Rowan than spend $1000 or up on a new saddle. I'm not comfortable enough with saddle fit to just buy a used saddle -- I don't think I would be able to tell from looking at it if it was going to fit or not.

I was hoping I could "make do" with this one until Rowan develops enough muscle to where I could get a saddle especially for him. I guess we will see if that's the case or not.



Now for something fun. My barn owner also despises his long mane. I found some pictures to explain what she (and @horselovinguy ) see when they look at his mane, versus what I see:

What they see:











What I see:


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I see what you see!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Hahaha, LOL. I think it is the same with my pony's mane. I see what you see too!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

sweet!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

*Day 126*

I went out there this afternoon intending not to ride, and I stuck to that. I don't want to ride him every time I see him, plus I am not sure if he might still be feeling bad if the saddle didn't fit him.

I didn't really do much with him. He was not really wanting to do much. I fed him and then he got really dozy and wasn't even interested in taking some pellets, so I left him for a while and did a few things with Pony. When I came back, he was feeling active, so we did what I wanted to work on, which was explaining to him that the mounting block wasn't the only thing he should line up with.

First we lined up with the mounting block in the dressage arena, since that one is totally different. Then we went to arena 3 and I stood on one of the solid jumps and waited to see what he would do. He came over but wasn't really sure about what he was supposed to be doing. The jump is quite a bit lower than the mounting block. He just wanted to chew on his lead rope, which was fine with me. I just stood there and let him. It took him a while, but when he was done we went back to the mounting stuff. I lined him up myself this time and then I think he understood. I walked away and had him come back and he lined right up. I went to another solid jump and we did the same thing. I was happy with that. I will say, as low as they are, these are jumps that I can use to get onto Pony bareback. I don't think that would be possible with Rowan, not unless I was going to scramble quite a bit.

Best thing is, I got some good sunset pictures of him. I had to pose him but it worked out well. I especially like the one with his big soft eye and sweet face, even though it's not the prettiest one. Well, maybe the best thing is I got a ton of hugs LOL. Just like all the other horses, he'll take them now that he knows they are associated with treats.

Highlight of the day: he picked up the idea of lining up with something that is not a mounting block pretty quickly.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I have a concern. I've been watching the videos my daughter took and there is something off with his back right leg, it appears to me. Check out the video below

seconds 48-57 -- it seems to wobble a bit when he puts it down.
second 101-109 -- it twists as he moves it and then wobbles, esp at the hock
you can see it in other places also
You might have to expand it and watch at half speed. 

I think he was somewhat cow hocked when I got him, and I thought this might change when he gained muscle. I guess he has gained mass but not muscle. I don't know if that's the cause or if there is something else. I don't even know if this is within the realm of (1) ok or (2) fixable.

Does anyone else see this and have any thoughts? I don't want to post it to the whole of HF right now. I don't think I'm imagining it, but I don't know if it's a big deal or not. I just don't know enough about what is within the realm of normal or acceptable.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I see what you are talking about. I'm not sure if I mentioned that way back when you were concerned he was off, with trot videos. 

it would be best to takes some videos where he trots straight away from the camera, straiht toward,, and straight across. he doesn't look 'off', but he does have a unique gait. not sure what it means, tho.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

I forget, did he ever have X-rays done behind?

My now passed mare Flame had a very twisty gait through her hocks, and it was found that she had severe arthritis at 10 years old. But, the twisting was constant and much more severe.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

No, the only XRays he's had so far have been of his front feet.

I'm kind of hoping to collect opinions about this and then see. I don't see that he's in pain from it right now, so I will probably keep riding him. 

I don't know if this changes how I feel about trying to get him to trot under saddle. He trots fine without a rider.

I need to get the lameness vet out for Moonshine's six-month followup in the next few weeks; I can have him look at Rowan at the same time.

@tinyliny that video where he was off at the trot -- that only happened the one time and then he was fine. Of course, now that I write this perhaps this thing was a one-time only deal. But I don't think so.


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## boatagor (Jun 27, 2017)

Dylan has started "wringing" his hocks recently. Or, I've just recently noticed. He's been out of work and is very out of shape. I've read a bunch of stuff and it sounds like it could be a strength issue for him. I did put him on a joint supplement just in case, since he is 16 this year. Is that what Rowan is doing?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I’m not seeing anything obvious. If he trotted out loose it would be easier to notice something off. I feel like in one moment he kinda tried to break into a trot and didn’t just do it, and maybe that was what you saw.

If you want to get him vetted for piece of mind then do, but if he was mine I wouldn’t be hesitant currently to do anything. If he did seem lame moving out then maybe I would get him checked.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Is that the leg with past injured hock?
Did you ever get pictures of it like you said you were going to do before starting to ride him?
Something or nothing, but to me, _*facts* known are peace of mind._

You made me    
If you think either of those "male" species are representative .... 
Oh well....
🐴... _jmo..._


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