# Need to rant - expired wormer



## LittleBayMare (Jun 2, 2014)

:shock: As both a horse person and someone who works in retail, holy @#$%! Run. Don't ever buy anything, especially food/medical supplies with expiration dates, from a store with that attitude. There are so many other things I suspect are wrong with that operation just from that one employee's lack of knowledge/attitude. :-x


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

beverleyy said:


> ...we now need to drive 45 minutes today to pick up wormer...


Seldom heard a better reason for shopping on-line


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Expiration dates are a relatively new thing. It used to be if it looked right & smelled right it was considered good & most likely was.
I wouldn't buy an expired dewormer either but if I have some that went a few months over I use it as long as it looks right.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Expiration dates may have nothing to do with effectiveness. A manufacturer has to provide test results showing it maintains effectiveness thru that date. So the longer the expiration date, the longer the maker needs to test it. I often take OTC medication that has "expired" and it has never caused me a problem.

I've never looked at the expiration date of the wormer I'm using. Given how infrequently I worm them, I suspect I sometimes use outdated stuff. And two of the three are such easy keepers that there is no way they are sharing food with any worms...


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

bsms said:


> *Expiration dates may have nothing to do with effectiveness.* A manufacturer has to provide test results showing it maintains effectiveness thru that date. So the longer the expiration date, the longer the maker needs to test it. I often take OTC medication that has "expired" and it has never caused me a problem.
> 
> I've never looked at the expiration date of the wormer I'm using. Given how infrequently I worm them, I suspect I sometimes use outdated stuff. And two of the three are such easy keepers that there is no way they are sharing food with any worms...


ehh I'd rather not risk it though. A huge part of my mum's and I's uneasyness about the situation stemmed from the young girl working who clearly had very little knowledge of horses, nor did she seem to care much about long since expired product in the store.


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Seldom heard a better reason for shopping on-line


Normally I would too! But I forgot to pick up wormer last month, and we were in a rush for new rainsheets lol!

Thankfully we've got everything now


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Not long after I started riding, I was in a tack store. A woman was asking the saleswoman - an older lady who I believe was the owner - if a certain saddle would fit her Arabian. The saleswoman replied, "All of our saddles will fit any horse. We couldn't sell them otherwise."

I don't think the customer believed her. I walked out and have never gone back.

But tack & feed stores often end up hiring someone to run a cash register. Their expertise ends there. A bit scary, though, particularly if you want some advice...


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

bsms said:


> Not long after I started riding, I was in a tack store. A woman was asking the saleswoman - an older lady who I believe was the owner - if a certain saddle would fit her Arabian. The saleswoman replied, *"All of our saddles will fit any horse. We couldn't sell them otherwise."*
> 
> I don't think the customer believed her. I walked out and have never gone back.
> 
> But tack & feed stores often end up hiring someone to run a cash register. Their expertise ends there. A bit scary, though, particularly if you want some advice...


Wow, that's a scary thought. Unfortunate that that happens. Around here we - surprisingly - have few tack stores, but an abundance of horsey people, so it is quite uncommon for anyone non-horsey to work in such a place. I guess that all just goes to show that you really do need to do your own research instead of blindly trusting an employee in certain cases.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

bsms said:


> I often take OTC medication that has "expired" and it has never caused me a problem.


But did it do you any good, though? If the active ingredients decay over time, they're much more likely to just become something ineffective, rather than something toxic - which would seem like a huge liability issue for the maker.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

If I keep a tube of dewormer a little too long, my bad! I will still use it.

But if I am going to pay good money for dewormer, it better be fresh! 

I get all my dewormer online. The feed/ranch stores around here rape you with their prices. I can get ivermectin for around $2 online. At the stores, the sky is the limit. 

Same thing with fly spray. I can get my favorite fly spray for around $12.50 online with free shipping. No tax. The feed stores want close to $20 for the same spray.

I like to buy local.......but it can be really tough when the prices are about 2x the online prices. Some things I can buy local, some things I refuse to pay 2x as much for.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

If a wormer is a few months out of date, chances are it is still efficacious. A year? Maybe, if I'd bought it fresh and knew how it'd been stored, but I wouldn't buy it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"But did it do you any good, though?"

Yes. My bottle of aspirin "expired" in April, but it is working fine still. My ibuprofen had also expired, but it continued working thru the end of the bottle yesterday. And I take a lot of those for lower back pain. I would KNOW if the pain didn't go away."The American Medical Association (AMA) concluded in 2001 that the actual shelf life of some products is longer than the labeled expiration date. The AMA stated the best evidence resides in the Shelf Life Extension Program (SLEP) undertaken by the FDA for the Department of Defense. The original purpose of the SLEP program was twofold: to determine the actual shelf life of stockpiled military medications for future use, and to save government dollars. Over 3000 lots, representing 122 different drug products, were assessed in the SLEP program. Based on stability data, expiration dates on 88 percent of the lots were extended beyond their original expiration date for an average of 66 months [5.5 years]. Of these 2652 lots, only 18 percent were terminated due to failure...

...These results suggest that many drug products may have extended shelf lives beyond their expiration date. However, it is difficult for any one consumer or health care provider to know which product could have an extended shelf life. The ability for a drug to have an extended shelf life would be dependent upon the actual drug ingredients, presence of preservatives, temperature fluctuations, light, humidity, and other storage conditions."

Drug Expiration Dates - Are Expired Drugs Still Safe to Take?

"A study conducted by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration covered over 100 drugs, prescription and over-the-counter. The results showed that about 85% of them were safe and effective as far as 15 years past their expiration date. Joel Davis, a former FDA expiration-date compliance chief, said that with a handful of exceptions—notably nitroglycerin, insulin, some liquid antibiotics; outdated tetracyclines can cause Fanconi syndrome—most expired drugs are probably effective.

The American Medical Association (AMA) issued a report and statement on Pharmaceutical Expiration Dates. The Harvard Medical School Family Health Guide notes that, with rare exceptions, "it's true the effectiveness of a drug may decrease over time, but much of the original potency still remains even a decade after the expiration date".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescription_drug#Expiration_date​I would not BUY medicine that has expired. The OP would have been foolish to BUY expired medicine! But neither do I go through the cabinet and toss medicines that are past their expiration date. Most are in pill form and kept in a dark & dry cabinet. For things like aspirin, decongestants, etc...I use them. To date, I've never noticed one NOT working.

My wife, OTOH, checks dates and won't take any pill if it expired last month.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Our vet has told us that he would feel comfortable with us using dewormers, bute, etc. up to a year past their date and are probably good even longer if properly stored.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Unfortunately, retail has an extremely high turnover rate, so chances are she's only worked there a few months. Chances are also good that she is not a "horse person." 

My fiance works for a local feed and tack store. He grew up in the same small town we both live in (as did I), but he's about as non-horsey as they get. The majority of the other employees in the store are young enough to be his kids and have no prior work experience. The store manager who was there when he got hired was 20-years-old and had never been in any type of management before (she only got hired because she has an equine management certificate). The BO where I board was in the store one day and found a product that she absolutely loves and usually has to get in the next town over. When she inquired about the price (the store had only been up and running for a week or two and things were still getting priced), she was told a price that was almost three times what she paid for a larger bottle where she normally gets it. When she asked why the price was so high, the store manager said (and I quote) "Well, we don't sell very much of it, so we have to raise the price." Wait...what? Because of that store manager, there are a lot of people in our town who won't shop at that store, or only get their hay there because they have the lowest prices while still having good quality hay.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

bsms said:


> Expiration dates may have nothing to do with effectiveness. A manufacturer has to provide test results showing it maintains effectiveness thru that date. So the longer the expiration date, the longer the maker needs to test it. I often take OTC medication that has "expired" and it has never caused me a problem.
> 
> I've never looked at the expiration date of the wormer I'm using. Given how infrequently I worm them, I suspect I sometimes use outdated stuff. And two of the three are such easy keepers that there is no way they are sharing food with any worms...


I've definitely had a couple (and some sheep) that I wondered if I could take the worms from some of the others and infect them. Win win!

Regarding prices. Ulcerguard I can get online for <30. I wanted some in a pinch so went to the store. I was willing to pay a little extra since I really wanted some and hadn't ordered any yet. One store was 48! Left and went to another 58!!! I flat out said "you know I can get this online for 30 bucks less?" I ended up not buying any, I don't have that much money to throw away! Luckily a friend had some.

Interestingly enough friends was expired and worked just fine. If it's like 5 years expired it goes in the trash but a month or two doesn't mean anything. As said most medications (if stored properly) are good 1 year + after the expiration. Then you have my bf who won't even touch milk if it's within a few days of the expiration even if it's good. Very frustrating. Try to explain but doesn't get anywhere.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

Milk - hah! If the label is one day past expiration, he'll make me smell it before he'll cook with it, but he won't drink it or use it on cereal on in coffee. Five days past expiration and it goes in the trash. I now buy quarts!!


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

bsms said:


> Expiration dates may have nothing to do with effectiveness. A manufacturer has to provide test results showing it maintains effectiveness thru that date. So the longer the expiration date, the longer the maker needs to test it. I often take OTC medication that has "expired" and it has never caused me a problem.
> 
> I've never looked at the expiration date of the wormer I'm using. Given how infrequently I worm them, I suspect I sometimes use outdated stuff. And two of the three are such easy keepers that there is no way they are sharing food with any worms...


When you consider you are paying top dollar for a given product, surely you might as well get the best. Otherwise you are just throwing money away and playing russian roulette with your horses health.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't pay top dollar. I buy cheap no-name wormer off the Internet. I don't worm them frequently and I could pay top dollar, but why? The same applies to me. I buy my ibuprofen at Wal-Mart in the big containers and use it until it is gone. With OTC medications, that seems to work fine.

I do not BUY out of date stuff, but I'll USE it if I have it. I do store all medicines out of sunlight and in dry places - not the bathroom! 

My wife, OTOH, won't touch a pill that is a month out of date. We all make choices based on what seems right to us.


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

bsms said:


> I don't pay top dollar. I buy cheap no-name wormer off the Internet. I don't worm them frequently and I could pay top dollar, but why? The same applies to me. I buy my ibuprofen at Wal-Mart in the big containers and use it until it is gone. With OTC medications, that seems to work fine.
> 
> I do not BUY out of date stuff, but I'll USE it if I have it. I do store all medicines out of sunlight and in dry places - not the bathroom!
> 
> My wife, OTOH, won't touch a pill that is a month out of date. We all make choices based on what seems right to us.


Exactly. If I have it and it's gone out of date since I've bought it, then I'll usually finish it up - but I won't buy something that's out of date. A huge reason in that is that I have to question the store's judgement in even keeping something on the shelf once it's expired, especially so far expired.


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