# HUS + Tail Extensions



## Jake and Dai

This is just a question driven by complete curiosity. It's a rainy Sunday and I'm a bit bored so was looking at various horse sales videos. I came across a HUS class, some regional class I think, and there was a gorgeous grey gelding but his tail extension seemed a bit too heavy. It just didn't move as naturally as a real tail or some of the others in the class using extensions. 

So I was just wondering, is it a disadvantage to NOT use one? He was a pretty mover, at least in my uneducated opinion, but because the extension just seemed too heavy, it was a bit distracting...again, to my uneducated eye.

I'm seriously just curious.


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## PBritton2U

LOL. I would say you would look out of place without one. I have a 1.5 lb tail extension and at a recent show--one of AQHA's "top ten" shows--I was out of place. I wondered when in the heck did the tails get so friggin' big?!! (I must have missed the memo.) So I'm thinking of adding a bit more to mine.

Honestly, my tail will worked fine as is, but I like to give off the appearance of being in the know. Most judges will look past a poor tail, but when I trot in, I want to make a statement. I want everything to look just right. These days that means a big, whompum tail.

Pam
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DaraT

I don't like tail extensions. I haven't seen one yet that looks natural when moving. They all end up between the horse's back legs and being batted back & forth. I find that so distracting, I can't concentrate on the horse's moves. Unfortunately, tail extensions are so popular that they are becoming the norm. This tends to make new show people feel they don't have a chance without artificial enhancements. Having a great moving horse that is totally natural is just not good enough in the show world these days. How sad.

At a recent show's vendor alley, I noticed one selling forelock extensions. What next, mane extensions for one that has been pulled too short?

I'm one of the odd ducks, I guess. I like my horse natural.


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## barrelracer7335

Well I actually like the looks if it's the right size on the right horse. My cousins old buckskin mare had a beautiful tail and a fake tail wouldve made it look horrid so before she went to a show i would just cut it straight across and no one knew the difference. So if it's on the right horse it'd be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner

I do not like them do not use them will not use them. They do not look natural they are more of a distraction then anything. Takes away from a good picture more then they add most of the time.


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## farmpony84

I have a 1 lb er I think is what it is. I need to wash it, it's filthy from the last show. I have seen some hunter tails that come in three pieces and have a natural cut rather than a blunt, they look pretty real on the horse. But in the QH world we use the blunts. I think the weight of the tail has to do w/ the carriage. If a horse carries his tail well then you don't need a lot of weight.

The speed eventers, cow horses, and reiners don't use the tails. I hate the reiners. They get to have the longest prettiest manes while we are forced to pull them short. NOT FAIR!


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## Citrus

I think they look fantastic and they seem easier to care for than a real tail! I would love a forelock extension too. I like long hair on any horse and envy those that grow it naturally.


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## Jake and Dai

PBritton2U said:


> These days that means a big, whompum tail.


That just made me giggle because this grey's tail was big & whompum!

Thanks for the replies everyone.  This particular horse seemed to have way too much tail, it was blunt cut but kept swishing between his hocks rather than flowing behind him. Maybe that had something to do with how he moved...IDK.

But some of the other horses in the class had what seemed like extensions (perfectly straight & blunt) but were much lighter and looked much nicer as they flowed behind them. They just seemed more natural. LOL maybe they were!


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## nrhareiner

farmpony84 said:


> The speed eventers, cow horses, and reiners don't use the tails. I hate the reiners. They get to have the longest prettiest manes while we are forced to pull them short. NOT FAIR!



NANA NANA BOOO BOOO.:lol:


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## PBritton2U

NRHAreiner...you are Evil!! LOL.

Seriously, I don't know where anyone would get the idea that movement isn't important. It is VITALLY important, but so is being consistently in a frame, and moving at the right pace, and having spotless transitions. If a great mover didn't place in a class it wasn't because of its "natural" tail. 

In the USEF world, a great mover is rewarded, or maybe I should say rewarded *in spite of* its ill behavior. I speak from experience here, too (25+ years in USEF). But in the QH world that's not the case. Manners are as important as movement. Maybe that's where the "movement doesn't matter in AQHA" notion comes from. People see nice movers not win and they honestly don't know that it was the head toss in the corner that took them out--not the plain tack, or the non-blingy show shirt, or the long mane. Maybe. IDK. Baffles me.

Just my $.02 worth.

Pam
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WickedNag

I have to agree with those that don't like the look of a fake tail. Very easy to pick out and I have such a hard time believing that someone used one and so many people went "Wow! I love that fake tail, think I will get me one ) just like the "falls" of the late 60's Long hair was in, parted down the middle. Falls were in everyone girls bathroom that didn't have long hair :O)


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## Jake and Dai

PBritton2U...

Not sure if you were commenting on my comment about movement...so I wanted to clarify...

I was just saying that I thought it could be because of the horses movement that the tail didn't flow behind him. They actually didn't show the results of the class and I wouldn't know a good HUS ride if it bit me on the butt. LOL I just happen to love dapple greys which is what led me to that video.

I wish I had pics of my big boy's tail. I have to cut a few inches off every few months so it doesn't drag on the ground. As he is 17hh, he has one seriously long, full tail!


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## farmpony84

nrhareiner said:


> NANA NANA BOOO BOOO.:lol:


Not. Nice.


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## farmpony84

WickedNag said:


> I have to agree with those that don't like the look of a fake tail. Very easy to pick out and I have such a hard time believing that someone used one and so many people went "Wow! I love that fake tail, think I will get me one ) just like the "falls" of the late 60's Long hair was in, parted down the middle. Falls were in everyone girls bathroom that didn't have long hair :O)


You would be shocked at how many times I've heard someone comment on how they keep their tails so pretty.....


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## PBritton2U

Jake and Dai said:


> PBritton2U...
> 
> Not sure if you were commenting on my comment about movement.


Nah. It wasn't you. Just a comment in general. 

And I get comments all the time about how stunning my horse's tail is...at open shows. LOL. People think it's real. (It's all how you tie it in, people. ;p. You need to use LOTS of Cowboy Magic Detangler, too. That keeps it from getting locked between a horse's legs.)

Anyway, I love nothing more then telling people who comment on my horse's tail, "It's fake." OMG. The look of horror mixed with facination on their face is PRICELESS.



Pam
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner

farmpony84 said:


> Not. Nice.


It wasn't me it was my EEEEEVIIIILLL Twin.:twisted::lol:


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## WickedNag

PBritton2U said:


> Nah. It wasn't you. Just a comment in general.
> 
> And I get comments all the time about how stunning my horse's tail is...at open shows. LOL. People think it's real. (It's all how you tie it in, people. ;p. You need to use LOTS of Cowboy Magic Detangler, too. That keeps it from getting locked between a horse's legs.)
> 
> Anyway, I love nothing more then telling people who comment on my horse's tail, "It's fake." OMG. The look of horror mixed with facination on their face is PRICELESS.
> 
> 
> 
> Pam
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pam, if the horse in your avatar is the horse they are commenting on, I can see that is a fake tail from the picture. I can see a piece of the real tail though  
Beautiful animal though.


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## WickedNag

nrhareiner said:


> NANA NANA BOOO BOOO.:lol:


Beautiful example of a tail! Much rather see that tail than a fake tail any day. I was trying to find a picture of my horses tail and am wondering if I never take butt shots!!!


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## nrhareiner

WickedNag said:


> Beautiful example of a tail! Much rather see that tail than a fake tail any day. I was trying to find a picture of my horses tail and am wondering if I never take butt shots!!!



Thing is that it takes work to get a tail to look like that. Plus some genetics. Some people just do not want to do the work or the horse does have the genetics to get a good trail.


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## WickedNag

nrhareiner said:


> Thing is that it takes work to get a tail to look like that. Plus some genetics. Some people just do not want to do the work or the horse does have the genetics to get a good trail.


Yes it does. My best friend had a Saddlebred stallion that had a tail that drug 6' behind him :shock: I never got to meet Falcon before he died but I saw pictures of him in the showring. I laughed at the number of horses that were scared of that black and white thing slithering after the horse if front of them :lol:


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## nrhareiner

If I did not cut my horses tail I am not sure how long it would get. I cut off about 4-5 inch every 5-6 weeks depending on what is going on and if I am showing. I like the tail a few inch above the fetlock.


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## Alwaysbehind

WickedNag said:


> Pam, if the horse in your avatar is the horse they are commenting on, I can see that is a fake tail from the picture. I can see a piece of the real tail though
> Beautiful animal though.


That was my thought too.



I am still trying to figure out why there is a thread in the western riding section that has a title about Hunter under saddle.


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## Jake and Dai

Alwaysbehind said:


> I am still trying to figure out why there is a thread in the western riding section that has a title about Hunter under saddle.


 
Err...because I was thinking AQHA HUS = AQHA = Western. 

Sorry about that guys...


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## Jake and Dai

Oh...and I do know that AQHA doesn't automatically equal Western. I just made a silly mistake. :hide:


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## farmpony84

Riley fell asleep with his tail in his water bucket over the winter, it froze and he yanked a bunch of it out so it's really straggly now.

I actually was never a fan of the fake tail but I've gotten to where I really like the look... I geuss it's all a matter of personal preference? Here's photos of Ri real and fake...


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## Alwaysbehind

Jake and Dai said:


> Err...because I was thinking AQHA HUS = AQHA = Western.
> 
> Sorry about that guys...


Not an issue.... just was wondering. Laugh.


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## PBritton2U

Alwaysbehind said:


> That was my thought too.


Ah, but could you tell live and in person? 

YouTube - Dspammsters's Channel

BTW, I thought I'd mention that my horse has NO tail. The bottom three vertebra of his tail broke off when he was about nine months old. We think one of the other babies stepped on it. And so he is what I like to call "folically challenged". We have to work extra hard to make it look like he has a tail. Poor thing. So some of what you might be seeing in my avatar isn't so much the "fake" part as where I've teased the hair to give it body. I do the same thing with my own hair. :lol:

Pam


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## PBritton2U

farmpony84 said:


> Riley fell asleep with his tail in his water bucket over the winter, it froze and he yanked a bunch of it out so it's really straggly now.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel your pain. My poor horse's tail ends above his hocks. It's so sad. Thank the good lord above for fake tails!
> 
> Pam
Click to expand...


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## Alwaysbehind

PBritton2U said:


> Ah, but could you tell live and in person?
> 
> YouTube - Dspammsters's Channel


Are you giving this video as an example of it being hard to tell?

Because it is not a good example if that is what you are trying to show. A natural tail does not get all tangled and stuck between the horses legs when they trot like a fake tail does.

I have no issue with people using them. I am just amused that people think it is not obvious.


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## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> Are you giving this video as an example of it being hard to tell?
> 
> Because it is not a good example if that is what you are trying to show. A natural tail does not get all tangled and stuck between the horses legs when they trot like a fake tail does.
> 
> I have no issue with people using them. I am just amused that people think it is not obvious.


Ri-ris tail get's stuck between his legs all the time. So does his mamas... I think it's because they have those great big impressive butts!


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## Alwaysbehind

farmpony84 said:


> Ri-ris tail get's stuck between his legs all the time. So does his mamas... I think it's because they have those great big impressive butts!


Not like that. Watch a video of a horse with a real tail trotting and one with a fake tail. Fake tail horse their tail seems to travel in front of their hind legs quite a bit.


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## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> Not like that. Watch a video of a horse with a real tail trotting and one with a fake tail. Fake tail horse their tail seems to travel in front of their hind legs quite a bit.


You mean like this? He's doing that on purpose, you see, he likes the feel of it.


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## Alwaysbehind

Laugh. Yes.... static tail stuck in front of their back legs.


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## WickedNag

I agree with you alwaysbehind. I watched the video too and it was obvious it was a fake tail. I am still amazed people love them. I love a nice tail too but I love them natural! Farmpony 84 I used to have an impressive big butted horse too. She never tangled her tail up in her back legs but I will show her off anyway  first her tail and than her mane


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## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> Laugh. Yes.... static tail stuck in front of their back legs.


That's not static. Look at the picture again, see his ears? He's enjoying that, it's a massaging effect you see, it keeps his muscles and his joints all loose...


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## nrhareiner

Alwaysbehind said:


> A natural tail does not get all tangled and stuck between the horses legs when they trot like a fake tail does.



They do when there is a lot of tail. You should see my mares tails when they move. Ends up between their legs and so on that is one reason they get trimmed up.


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## QHDragon

I use to groom at a WP barn, and it was just unheard of to not put in a fake tail before a show. I hate them, and can always tell when a tail is fake, it just doesn't move like it should, and seems to get caught between the horse's back legs. I find that distracting. 

I swore off ever using a fake tail ever again when I was in a showmanship class and as I backed my horse she stepped on her fake tail and ripped it out. That was embarrassing and I felt bad for the mare I was showing. 

Seems like everything that isn't a speed or a cow event is so fake now days it makes me sick.


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## cakemom

Horses should be shown as is. This is my opinion, as is it my opinion that ears on dogs and tails should not be cropped. My dog does have a cropped tail, but it was done before I acquired her. 
Nature made them what they are, love them as is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBritton2U

nrhareiner said:


> They do when there is a lot of tail. You should see my mares tails when they move. Ends up between their legs and so on that is one reason they get trimmed up.


I had to laugh when I read this. Yesterday, I was at my friend's hunter barn watching her work her Hanovarians. Those horses have massive tails and whenever she'd collect (she has dressage horses) they'd get caught up between the back legs. I reasoned out that this "batting around" thing has more to do with SPEED than a horse's tail being real or not. If you're moving along at a good clip--especially a USEF clip--the tail gets naturally blown back. But if you're moving along at a snail's pace, there's not place for the tail to go, especially if its a lot of hair. It just gets swished around. 

Anyway, it gave me a chuckle. I wanted to take a video and shout, "See!! See!!!" :wink: 

Pam


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## sandsarita

So much of the tail thickness is genetic, it isn't even funny. My old show mare, back in the early 2000s, I heard numerous people use her as an example of too heavy of a fake tail. I had to kindly inform these people that her tail was 100% real. I actually had a few people try and buy her tail when she was retired. Couldn't come to cut it off, though. It's just her. Her foals have been the same way. I'm going to attach a photo of one of her foals at 3years of age - she was kept in the pasture, tail was never put up, and look at the tail at the age of 3. Now we have to cut it off every month because of the length. Her other foal is now 3 and is following in the same direction. Other horses, I have done absolutely everything I could to try and get their tails thicker and it just won't happen. I can keep them in good condition, get them long, but they just won't thicken up and they need a fake tail. Just how it goes. Also, here's a video of one of my horses with a fake tail in. It never got caught, and to me, while I know it's a fake tail it was never distracting.


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## sorelhorse

just fyi- you most likely will get marked down for not having a fake tail, first off, it looks bad without one, and second, if you dont have one, your horse is free to wag and move his tail all he wants, which does not look good in the show arena.


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## nrhareiner

They will not mark you down if you do not have one. A fake tail should just add to the over all appearance of the horse. No fake tail is better then a bad fake tail.

As for the wagging. That is a big reason I think most people use a fake tail. However a horse moving his tail naturally is not something that will get you marked down. It is the horses who really swish their tails every time the rider puts the leg on the horse. That comes down to proper training more then anything.


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## sorelhorse

nrhareiner said:


> They will not mark you down if you do not have one. A fake tail should just add to the over all appearance of the horse. No fake tail is better then a bad fake tail.
> 
> As for the wagging. That is a big reason I think most people use a fake tail. However a horse moving his tail naturally is not something that will get you marked down. It is the horses who really swish their tails every time the rider puts the leg on the horse. That comes down to proper training more then anything.


ehem. yes they will. unless your horse has that 1 in a million chance of getting the beautiful tail, havent seen any so far, they will. and if your horse wags his tail, they will mark you down also. maybe at little local shows it doesnt matter, but if you ever want to go to worlds, or even breed shows, no fake tail=that much harder of getting first.


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## nrhareiner

Then you need to report the judges. I have talked to several AQHA judges and that is not even something they look at. If the judges are marking the horses down b/c of their tail they need to be reported with a video of the horse being shown. That is not part of the Rules for any class. Good judges will not mark down for not having a fake tail.


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## sandsarita

I know of one horse that won the AQHA Am All-around at the world show without a fake tail. And it wasn't very long ago, either. When she did put a small 1/2 lb tail in, she found they did worse and considered it bad luck. So she went without, and nobody knew better. And this is a girl that makes tails for people, as well. If a horse needs a tail, either because they have none or they carry it poorly (not just move it some, but really react with it), then yes, put one in. But don't do it just to do it. There is no reason to.


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## sorelhorse

"""Then you need to report the judges. I have talked to several AQHA judges and that is not even something they look at. If the judges are marking the horses down b/c of their tail they need to be reported with a video of the horse being shown. That is not part of the Rules for any class. Good judges will not mark down for not having a fake tail. '''


actually, it is in the rules. im sorry, but last time i checked when you show your hose, presentation is a big part of it, especially in showmanship and pattern classes, as long as rail. If your horse has a bad tail, the presentation aspect of it without a fake tail goes waaaayyyy down, not to mention the wagging part, again.


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## aforred

sorelhorse said:


> actually, it is in the rules. im sorry, but last time i checked when you show your hose, presentation is a big part of it, especially in showmanship and pattern classes, as long as rail. If your horse has a bad tail, the presentation aspect of it without a fake tail goes waaaayyyy down, not to mention the wagging part, again.


?????? So, you're saying that even if my horse's tail reaches his fetlocks and is nice and thick, I should be using a fake tail?


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## Alwaysbehind

sorelhorse said:


> actually, it is in the rules. im sorry, but last time i checked when you show your hose, presentation is a big part of it, especially in showmanship and pattern classes, as long as rail. If your horse has a bad tail, the presentation aspect of it without a fake tail goes waaaayyyy down, not to mention the wagging part, again.


Can you post the 'you must use a fake tail' rule, please?


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## WickedNag

nrhareiner said:


> Then you need to report the judges. I have talked to several AQHA judges and that is not even something they look at. If the judges are marking the horses down b/c of their tail they need to be reported with a video of the horse being shown. That is not part of the Rules for any class. Good judges will not mark down for not having a fake tail.



Thank you I have a friend who just turned in her national judges card to start showing again and she told me that you will not get docked for a natural tail and that she prefers the natural look than a bad fake look.


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## WickedNag

Alwaysbehind said:


> Can you post the 'you must use a fake tail' rule, please?


Thank you I would love to see the scanned rule book page on that one.


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## nrhareiner

There is no place with in the AQHA rule book that states you MUST have a fake tail. If you read the rules even for showmanship at halter the rule under presentation states that the tail can be of various lengths and must be free of tangles and dabree.


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## Alwaysbehind

Oh reiner, I believe you. I also agree with your other posts.


But Sorel posted it was a written rule, so I am asking her to show us the rule.


I get the impression that Sorel rides with a trainer that has theories. This trainer expresses her theories to her people as rules. This is not the first time Sorel has insisted that her way is the rules and if you do not do it her way you will lose.


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## WickedNag

nrhareiner said:


> There is no place with in the AQHA rule book that states you MUST have a fake tail. If you read the rules even for showmanship at halter the rule under presentation states that the tail can be of various lengths and must be free of tangles and dabree.


I also went to the APHA site and read their rule book and pulled out my daughter's PtHA rule book. Never saw one rule that states you must have a fake tail or will be disqualified. 

I probably know less about horses than almost everyone on here. I ride... I do not ride properly, I do not show and I know what I like in a horse  But I do have the resources to ask. My best friend who won Nationals in the PtHA, held a National Judges Card and had horse of the year more than once. It is who is helping my daughter train, ride and show her horses. 

But even with my lack of showing knowledge and that I enjoy the horses I have for what they are, I do know how to read a rule book.


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## nrhareiner

Alwaysbehind said:


> Oh reiner, I believe you. I also agree with your other posts.
> 
> 
> But Sorel posted it was a written rule, so I am asking her to show us the rule.
> 
> 
> I get the impression that Sorel rides with a trainer that has theories. This trainer expresses her theories to her people as rules. This is not the first time Sorel has insisted that her way is the rules and if you do not do it her way you will lose.


My posting that was not directed at you. Just stating what the rules said. I double checked them last night just to make sure. I show in 3-4 different associations so I wanted to double check as sometimes the rules run together in my mind.


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## farmpony84

I'm looking at the rules now. All I've found so far is that for Versatility Ranch Horse Tails are NOT permitted. No banding, braiding, or tail extensions. It says bridle path is permitted, trimming of ears is discouraged.

Approved Judges list.​*(5)​*​​​​No horses, less than 3 years of age may be exhibited.​
*(6)​*​​​​No hoof polish.​
*(7)​*​​​​No braided or banded manes or tail extensions.​
*(8)​*​​​​Trimming inside ears is discouraged.​
*(9)​*​​​​Trimming bridle path is allowed, also trimming of fetlocks
or excessive (long) facial hair.​
*(10)​*​​​​Equipment with silver should not count over a good​
working outfit. Silver on bridles and saddles is discouraged.


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## sorelhorse

ok, so i mistated it. I technically is in the rules, yet it is not printed. 
do you not realize that when you show a horse you want it to look good, and im sorry, but ive been to aqha, apha and ptha worlds and you WILL get docked for not having one. end of story


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## nrhareiner

sorelhorse said:


> ok, so i mistated it. I technically is in the rules, yet it is not printed.
> do you not realize that when you show a horse you want it to look good, and im sorry, but ive been to aqha, apha and ptha worlds and you WILL get docked for not having one. end of story


Again if you really think that is what is happening then YOU NEED TO CONTACT AQHA or what ever association you are showing in and report the judge. They can not and from my experience having shown for 15 years they do not. I have NEVER used a fake tail nor have any one I have shown with over the years and we call come home with wins. 

They can not judge you down on something that is not in the rules.


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## sorelhorse

nrhareiner said:


> Again if you really think that is what is happening then YOU NEED TO CONTACT AQHA or what ever association you are showing in and report the judge. They can not and from my experience having shown for 15 years they do not. I have NEVER used a fake tail nor have any one I have shown with over the years and we call come home with wins.
> 
> They can not judge you down on something that is not in the rules.


once again, it is inderectly in the rules. fake tails add to the overall presentation, and if you dont have one, your presentation won't be as good, so you will get docked. im not saying all horses need a fake tail, but i have bever met or seen a pic of one that doesnt.
and why would i waste my time to report the judges? it plays into my advantage, i have my own fake tail, so i dont care whether they mark down people who dont.


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## nrhareiner

There is no indirect rules. They are fast and set. Presentation is not about who can put in a fake tail but who has a horse that is fitted and looks good. I know quite a few judges in AQHA and other associations. They all say the same thing. Fake tails play no role in how they place a horse or handler. Several have actually said they would place a horse higher with out one b/c it shows that the owner puts more time into getting their horse ready. It takes more time to keep a tail nice then it does to just add a fake one. So it comes down to a person who has a nice tail clean well kept will place higher then one who the owner just puts in a fake one. All other things being equal.

If you think people win or loose b/c of a fake tail then you really need to take a better look. I have seen a lot of horses win with out them and have seen just as many loose with them.

It is a short cut and most judges look at in that way.


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## sorelhorse

*There is no indirect rules. They are fast and set*
ummm...yes there is. so if the rule book says"exhibitors must present an orderly and clean horse" does that not mean band or bathe or put polish on the hooves, or have clean tack? those are all indirect rules

*Presentation is not about who can put in a fake tail but who has a horse that is fitted and looks good.*
ehem...fitted and looks good includes a fake tail. sorry, but its the truth, and without one, its not as good looking.

*I know quite a few judges in AQHA and other associations. They all say the same thing. Fake tails play no role in how they place a horse or handler.* 
yes it does, once again, presentation!! they absolutely play one hundred percent role in how they judge. if your horse has a crappy tail, there going to doc you down because the presentation sucks. if your horses tail wags, they are going to mark you down once again, so ask those judges again to clarify themselves in fake tails. any reasonable judge will agree

*Several have actually said they would place a horse higher with out one b/c it shows that the owner puts more time into getting their horse ready. It takes more time to keep a tail nice then it does to just add a fake one.*
*not at all.* just because a horse has a fake tail does not mean we dont take precaustions to alays wash, condition and tailbag the tails all the time. not only that but it takes more work to put in a fake tail than to not.
So it comes down to a person who has a nice tail clean well kept will place higher then one who the owner just puts in a fake one. All other things being equal.

*If you think people win or loose b/c of a fake tail then you really need to take a better look. I have seen a lot of horses win with out them and have seen just as many loose with them.*
i have already taken the best look you can, and not to sound ignorant, but its the cold, hard truth. ive never seen a horse win without a fake tail.

*It is a short cut and most judges look at in that way.*
no real judges look at it that way.


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## aforred

If you've never seen a horse win without a fake tail, you haven't been around nearly long enough.


----------



## Alwaysbehind

aforred said:


> If you've never seen a horse win without a fake tail, you haven't been around nearly long enough.


And have not really paid enough attention.

Lets add, that if you can easily tell who has a fake tail and who does not (even though so many people insist you can not, but yes, you can) then they are not doing a really good job of putting them in.


Fake tails are not the same as banding. Banding is taking what you have and making it neat and orderly. Fake tails are adding something you do not have.

I do find it interesting that one of your points for a fake tail is to prevent your horse from moving its tail. :roll:
And yes, I realize a nice heavy fake tail can accomplish this. I just find it amusing (in not a good way) that people admit this is the reason they use them in a bragging way.

I like Reiner's theories better. Train the horse right. 

Sorel, I look forward to the day when you are a little older and you stop being sure you know all (a phase pretty much everyone goes through). Hopefully you will re-read your posts and see the other side.


----------



## nrhareiner

If that is what you really think SH ten you have not been around long. I have stood a stallion re grand champion with no fake tail and a long mane. He was well fit clean neat. Only difference between the winning stallion and the horse I was showing it that my horse was a cutting bred reiner and the other stallion was a halter horse. The others in the classes all had fake tails. If the horse who won had one it was a very very good one b/c it did not look fake and it was not much thicker then my horses tail.

I have a lot of friends who show also in everything from WP to halter to HUS and no of them use fake tails. They present a nice clean well fitted horse that is wall groomed and best of all KNOW THEIR JOB. They do their job correctly and better then the other horses and they win. 

If you want to use a fake tail that is your right. There is no rule against it. However I know from talking to many judges over the years. All other things being equal a fake tail makes no differance. They will pick the horse that looks like more time was put into their presentation. As the rules in AQHA under Showmanship At Halter states the tails can be of varying lengths. They would rather see a nice clean well kept natural tail then a horse with a fake tail. B/C in the judges eyes it show a long term prep of the horse. It takes more preparation and care and work to have a nice real tail then just adding in a fake tail and not doing the work. Judged know this see this and reward this. This comes straight from several judges mouths.


----------



## farmpony84

They don't use tails in halter. I don't think they can. They do use them in showmanship and so forth. I think probalby the reason people started using them was to help weigh down the occasional "arab" type tail. But I think now it's just become a part of the over-all show attire. You don't have to have a tail and they won't judge you for not having one. I'm not even sure they'll judge you for loosing one in the showring (although that is a little embarrassing).

People in the hunt rings use them. I've seen tons of people in the upper level hunt shows using them. It's cosmetic for definite with them because they aren't judged on tail carriage at all...

In the arab circuit it's illegal to use them... I have seen forelock extensions for sale for saddlebred and gaited type horses...

People wear hair extensions.... Sometimes they look really bad, super fake and sometimes they look completely real... People wear fake nails too.... I hate them, they feel yucky gross and I won't wear them... but sometimes on a friday night.... I look down at my grubby calous covered hands and chipped nails and think... I want to have pretty princess hands! 

Does it really matter? Fake... real???? I mean, what is ugly anyway? Isn't that personal preference?

Uh oh! Oh crap! The soap box, it's wobbling... AAAAAHHHHH!!!! Oof... I just landed on my butt....

Next!


----------



## nrhareiner

Actually there is no rule in AQHA that you can not use a fake tail in halter. They can and do. However I have seen just as many win with out as I have with.

My point is not if you should or should not. It is that they do not dock you simply for not having a fake tail.


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## farmpony84

I've never seen one used in halter. When I showed Ri in halter my trainer would not allow me to use a tail, I just assumed it was a rule...


----------



## Jessabel

Heh... I can't stand any kind of tail extension. I think they're hideous. 

I went to an open show the other day and it was all stock breeds. Almost every one of them had fake tails, except for my friends' horses. This one HUS rider was on a big gray Quarter Horse, and she yelled to her assistant, "His tail is coming out again!" I almost died laughing. The assistant went over and proceeded to tape the fake hair back on with electrical tape. :shock: These days, I rarely ever see a Paint or Quarter Horse without one.


----------



## farmpony84

Jessabel said:


> Heh... I can't stand any kind of tail extension. I think they're hideous.
> 
> I went to an open show the other day and it was all stock breeds. Almost every one of them had fake tails, except for my friends' horses. This one HUS rider was on a big gray Quarter Horse, and she yelled to her assistant, "His tail is coming out again!" I almost died laughing. The assistant went over and* proceeded to tape the fake hair back on with electrical tap*e. :shock: These days, I rarely ever see a Paint or Quarter Horse without one.


That would be...not legal....


----------



## Alwaysbehind

The people I know that use them use them for everything. So I assume they are allowed in halter




farmpony84 said:


> my trainer would not allow me to use a tail, I just assumed it was a rule...


You just made my point marvelously. Thank you!

I believe that is where Sorel's incorrect information comes from too. Her trainer says X so X must be a rule.

No need to actually look at a rule book or open your eyes and look for facts. Trainer says X.


----------



## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> The people I know that use them use them for everything. So I assume they are allowed in halter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just made my point marvelously. Thank you!
> 
> I believe that is where Sorel's incorrect information comes from too. Her trainer says X so X must be a rule.
> 
> *No need to actually look at a rule book or open your eyes and look for facts. Trainer says X*.


I have gotten to where I request my own rule book each year and have started checking the rules for my own educated purposes but... I geuss we feel like we should be able to trust our trainers knowledge right? I mean... that is what we pay them for right?


----------



## Alwaysbehind

farmpony84 said:


> I have gotten to where I request my own rule book each year and have started checking the rules for my own educated purposes but... I geuss we feel like we should be able to trust our trainers knowledge right? I mean... that is what we pay them for right?


I was not saying you did not read or care about the rules. I was saying that is where SH's issues with knowing them came from. 


Yes, we should trust our trainers. 

But you said that your trainer would not allow you to use a fake tail in halter so you assumed it was a rule.

Your trainer did not tell you that the rule was no fake tails in halter.

You took a requirement your trainer had and turned it into a rule.

I have been trying to say for a bit now, that I believe that is part of the issue that sorelhorse has confusing rules with theories.


----------



## sorelhorse

Alwaysbehind said:


> The people I know that use them use them for everything. So I assume they are allowed in halter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just made my point marvelously. Thank you!
> 
> I believe that is where Sorel's incorrect information comes from too. Her trainer says X so X must be a rule.
> 
> No need to actually look at a rule book or open your eyes and look for facts. Trainer says X.


I have no issue. I obviously havent been around as long as you guys have, but that is why im talking about NOW. Not the future, not the past. Ive been to Paint and Pinto worlds for the past 8 years in a row, and your saying I havent been around enough? I show my horse just about every weekend for the past many many years, ans yet i still havent been around enough? not to mention ive been riding for 11 years. This information does not come from a trainer, it comes from me. And its quite easy to tell who has a ake tail and who does not to the trained eye. Ive very well read the apha and ptha and aqha rulebook. And when I ready"exhibitor and horse must present a neat, clean and orderly impression, fake tails are included. Yes, Fake tails are also there to keep the tails down, yet thats still better than nerving the tail permanently. Once again, Iv'e never seen a horse with a natural tail that looks as THICK and long as one does without, and dont assume even if we use a fake tail we dont take care of the horses real tail. At lets say aqha worlds showmanship and you have 100 youths competing the same colored horse all day long, your going to see one that doesnt have a fake tail and go"thats ones off my list". Simple as that. presentation is everything along with how well you do your pattern. Not to mention you cant train a horse not to move its tail. thats just stupid. that would be like training a baby not to cry. or we could just nerve it, which would you prefer?


----------



## Alwaysbehind

:shock:

So the only two options are to nerve them (which I believe is against the rules, isn't it?) or to weigh their tail down?

It is not an option to simply have a content horse?

A good judge (note I said _good_) will not mark down for normal tail movement. Ringing and flicking in annoyance will get marked down. 



BTW, I do agree that it is easy to tell the difference between horses with fake tails and those with out. I have been saying that all along. A fake tail looks very fake!

I believe any judge would rather see a well turned out horse that is naturally well turned out than one that people are weighing its tail down to force it to behave that way.

But then, you also believe that a disjointed not really a lope gait is proper too, so....


I put my trust in someone who is an adult who has experience with several different aspects of showing life and knows and deals with lots of different trainers (AKA reiner) who admits there are things they do not know over a kid who is sure they know everything. :wink:


----------



## sorelhorse

Alwaysbehind said:


> :shock:
> 
> *So the only two options are to nerve them (which I believe is against the rules, isn't it?) or to weigh their tail down?*
> thats the point. there is only one option. yet tail blocking is still legal, which means numbing the tail, and yet a fake tail is bad...hmmmm
> 
> _No there is not. I do not use fake tails nor do I numb or block my horses tails and I do not have a tail swisher in the bunch. _
> 
> *It is not an option to simply have a content horse?*
> nope. once gain ill bring you back to aqha youth worlds with 100 kids and the same color horse. all their patterns and to seome extent show outfits look the same...so how are they going to chose who wins?? well, simple really, the horse with the bad tail set is off the list.
> 
> _There is a big difference between a bad tail set and a horse who swished and rings their tail. If the wish and ring their tails a fake tail is not going to change that enough that a good judge will not notice. It is not about the tail. It is about the horse and or rider/handler.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> *BTW, I do agree that it is easy to tell the difference between horses with fake tails and those with out. I have been saying that all along. A fake tail looks very fake!*
> so what. and most people cant tell the difference. pnly to the trained eye
> 
> _Well then my cousins little 5yo must have a very trained eye as she can tell about 95% of the time which horse has a fake tail and which ones do not._
> 
> *But then, you also believe that a disjointed not really a lope gait is proper too, so....*
> its not disjointed. a good horse person could see that they are driving off the hind end and collected, but lets not get into that again
> 
> 
> *I put my trust in someone who is an adult who has experience with several different aspects of showing life and knows and deals with lots of different trainers (AKA reiner) who admits there are things they do not know over a kid who is sure they know everything. *
> ya, and i know nothing about reingning, but when it comess to showing, i got just about all of you all beat.
> 
> _You just keep on believing that one._


----------



## Speed Racer

I see that sorel knows more than everyone else about everything else, when it comes to showing. BAAHAAHAAA!!! :rofl:

Little girl, all you've shown me is that you've bought into the, 'whatever it takes to win, and screw the horse' mentality. That's why showing has turned into the nasty, cutthroat business is it today, with no actual regard for the animals.

With your posts, all you've told me is that the younger generation is going to continue to perpetuate the same level of ugliness to each other and their animals.

ANY judge who would place a horse with a fake tail over one without merely because of that fake tail, is a moron, plain and simple.


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## nrhareiner

Speed Racer said:


> ANY judge who would place a horse with a fake tail over one without merely because of that fake tail, is a moron, plain and simple.


This is my point.

It would be like a judge marking me down b/c I do not use chaps. There is no where in the rule books that say I MUST use chaps. I do not like them so I do not use them even to show. 

It is also like saying that a horse with a long mane can not with the a AQHA World title in WP. The best horse/rider combination will win if the judge is good.


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## farmpony84

The door creaked softly as Farmpony pushed it open. A shaft of light slowly creeped across the old wood floor of the empty barn as she pushed her way further into the room. She glanced around the room that had once been full of angry fake tail protesters. She found an old wooden milk crate in a darkened corner, picking it up she carried it into the middle of the floor. It made a small thud sound as she placed it circuly on the floor, brushing the dust off she stepped up onto the old box.

"Uh hum." clearing her throat in a shakey voice she yelled... "My name is Farmpony84 AND I USE A FAKE TAIL!"


----------



## Speed Racer

farmpony84 said:


> The door creaked softly as Farmpony pushed it open. A shaft of light slowly creeped across the old wood floor of the empty barn as she pushed her way further into the room. She glanced around the room that had once been full of angry fake tail protesters. She found an old wooden milk crate in a darkened corner, picking it up she carried it into the middle of the floor. It made a small thud sound as she placed it circuly on the floor, brushing the dust off she stepped up onto the old box.
> 
> "Uh hum." clearing her throat in a shakey voice she yelled... "My name is Farmpony84 AND I USE A FAKE TAIL!"


:rofl: :clap: :rofl: :clap:

Fake tails are fine FP, but I'm_ pretty_ sure you don't think your horse wins because he has a fake tail, and for no other reason. :wink:


----------



## nrhareiner

farmpony84 said:


> "Uh hum." clearing her throat in a shakey voice she yelled... "My name is Farmpony84 AND I USE A FAKE TAIL!"


And from the darkness a voice came out and asked. Do you think you win b/c of your fake tail? Do you think you will be laughed at and tossed out of the show ring if you do not have one?


I do not so much dislike a fake tail. If they are well put in and not noticeable. I look at them the same way as I do a run on an old guys head. If it looks real and make the guy look better I am all for it. However the ones that look like what they are take more away then they add.

My point is not so much that you should or should not use one it is more that a GOOD judge will not dismiss a horse with a natural tail.


----------



## Alwaysbehind

FP, I am almost laughing too hard to type.

Like SR and reiner said, I do not think any of us hate fake tails. Well unless they are so obviously fake. 

I assume you realize that your fake tail does not win or loose the class for you, right?


----------



## farmpony84

nrhareiner said:


> And from the darkness a voice came out and asked. Do you think you win b/c of your fake tail? Do you think you will be laughed at and tossed out of the show ring if you do not have one?


"Omigosh!". Farmpony spun around so fast on that rickety old crate that she nearly fell. Quickly stepping down and looking up towards the rafters she slowly circled the lightened area of the old barn.

Sighing she finally confessed. "I use the tail because my trainer has declared that I shall use it." she kicked at the dust. "And when it's 130 degrees with the heat index, I wear my hunt coat, because my trainer has declared that I shall use it..."

Tears cascaded down her cheeks as she hung her head in shame..... Ok, maybe not shame, but it go's well with the story line....


----------



## Speed Racer

farmpony84 said:


> "And when it's 130 degrees with the heat index, I wear my hunt coat, because my trainer has declared that I shall use it..."


Raises a timid hand. I too, have been known to do this. No fake tails, but unless the judge excuses hunt coats, I wear one. Gloves, too.


----------



## Alwaysbehind

farmpony84 said:


> Sighing she finally confessed. "I use the tail because my trainer has declared that I shall use it." she kicked at the dust. "And when it's 130 degrees with the heat index, I wear my hunt coat, because my trainer has declared that I shall use it..."


I do this too!

I do not care of the judge has excused hunt coats. I am wearing it. 

Probably if my trainer suggested I use a fake tail I would probably use one. But I would never think not having it would loose me the class.


----------



## nrhareiner

farmpony84 said:


> "Omigosh!". Farmpony spun around so fast on that rickety old crate that she nearly fell. Quickly stepping down and looking up towards the rafters she slowly circled the lightened area of the old barn.
> 
> Sighing she finally confessed. "I use the tail because my trainer has declared that I shall use it." she kicked at the dust. "And when it's 130 degrees with the heat index, I wear my hunt coat, because my trainer has declared that I shall use it..."
> 
> Tears cascaded down her cheeks as she hung her head in shame..... Ok, maybe not shame, but it go's well with the story line....


The voice from the dark says come to the dark side where no hunt coats are needed. Where you can show in Wranglers and a just a long sleeve shirt with a color I might add. Where the hats keep the sun off your face and neck. Come Come.


----------



## aforred

nrhareiner said:


> The voice from the dark says come to the dark side where no hunt coats are needed. Where you can show in Wranglers and a just a long sleeve shirt with a color I might add. Where the hats keep the sun off your face and neck. Come Come.


Oh, wow! This is why I love barrels and poles. I do all the western stuff, but I'm not a big fan of chaps when it's hot and humid.


----------



## PBritton2U

farmpony84 said:


> "Uh hum." clearing her throat in a shakey voice she yelled... "My name is Farmpony84 AND I USE A FAKE TAIL!"


Farmpony, that was A RIOT!!! And can I just say, too, that you're a really good writer. Seriously. You should do something with that talent. I'm a multi-published author (book 23 is out this week), so don't think I say that lightly. Honestly. YOU'RE GOOD.

Okay, back to laughing.

Pam


----------



## farmpony84

nrhareiner said:


> The voice from the dark says come to the dark side where no hunt coats are needed. Where you can show in Wranglers and a just a long sleeve shirt with a color I might add. Where the hats keep the sun off your face and neck. Come Come.


"But..."... "But, trainer scares me!" Farmpony confessed as she thought of trainer and trainer husband who were, at that very moment defending their mules VA State Champion title for the third year in a row at state fair. "BUT!" she confessed... "I am stalling near my reiner friend at state fair this year!"...Reiner friend does not use fake tails or chaps. No, reiner friend just rides in old wranglers. Although Reiner friends daughter uses a fake tail and has the best braids in the WORLD!....Oops, back on topic...

"But! BUT..... My tail is black and shiny.... and pretty....."


----------



## farmpony84

PBritton2U said:


> Farmpony, that was A RIOT!!! And can I just say, too, that you're a really good writer. Seriously. You should do something with that talent. I'm a multi-published author (book 23 is out this week), so don't think I say that lightly. Honestly. YOU'RE GOOD.
> 
> Okay, back to laughing.
> 
> Pam


Thank you! That really means alot. I actually have been trying to write books for a few years now. I have several that are in the works, but I always get stopped around page 20 something...:-(


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## nrhareiner

I do not use chaps myself. Do not like them at all.


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## Speed Racer

nrhareiner said:


> The voice from the dark says come to the dark side where no hunt coats are needed. Where you can show in Wranglers and a just a long sleeve shirt with a color I might add. Where the hats keep the sun off your face and neck. Come Come.


I ain't goin' nowhere unless there are cookies. Do you have cookies?


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## nrhareiner

Speed Racer said:


> I ain't goin' nowhere unless there are cookies. Do you have cookies?


Cookies, brownies, cake and pie. Some times even home made Pizza.


----------



## Speed Racer

nrhareiner said:


> Cookies, brownies, cake and pie. Some times even home made Pizza.


I'm in! 

Hey, I may be cheap, but I ain't easy!


----------



## nrhareiner

farmpony84 said:


> "But..."... "But, trainer scares me!" Farmpony confessed as she thought of trainer and trainer husband who were, at that very moment defending their mules VA State Champion title for the third year in a row at state fair. "BUT!" she confessed... "I am stalling near my reiner friend at state fair this year!"...Reiner friend does not use fake tails or chaps. No, reiner friend just rides in old wranglers. Although Reiner friends daughter uses a fake tail and has the best braids in the WORLD!....Oops, back on topic...
> 
> "But! BUT..... My tail is black and shiny.... and pretty....."



Come come the confusion will pass with time. Reiners have long shinny manes and tails. You will see through the fog that all is well.

Oh speaking of manes and tails. I have 4 that need to be washed as this is most likely the last nice day.


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## nrhareiner

Speed Racer said:


> I'm in!
> 
> Hey, I may be cheap, but I ain't easy!


Come hurry the pie is almost gone.


----------



## PBritton2U

I've been lurking around this thread, kind of afraid to jump in, honestly, but I really feel I need to articulate what Sorelhorse is trying to say. I feel sorry for Sorelhorse. What's more_, I believe her._

I was just like many of you once upon a time. I knew a bit about breed shows, had friends that competed at a national level, even kept my horse at a barn with many APHA world champions, but I had NO CLUE what it was like until I jumped in full-time. I've BEEN in that class with a bazillion horses that all look the same. I've competed in classes where not just one or two people were really good--but EVERY horse and EVERY rider was dead-nuts, spot on, absolutely FANTASTIC. 

Here's the kicker: When you get to this level, something as completely silly and (in many observer's eyes) uncessary as a fake tail can and WILL make a difference between first and second place. All things being equal--a stellar pattern, brilliant riding, a wonderful horse--when a judge looks down at their card and they need a tie-breaker, guess what will come into play? Grooming. 

Although many of you would _like_ to believe that a fake tail doesn't count towards your total score, it does. All though many of you think that a judge _wouldn't really_ discount a rider for not having one, YES THEY WILL. For every judge that would look past a rider brave enough to ditch the tail, there are old school, dyed-in-the wool judges that would be mortified to see a rider in a rail class without one. Though it's not in any rule book, it's simply the way it is. It's like banding/braiding. You don't HAVE to do it, but you do. The same unspoken rule applies at the big USEF show. You braid. 

Now, do I believe that there might come a day when fake tails go out of style? I think that's totally possible, but that day is NOT today. In today's world--at the WORLD LEVEL--you need a fake tail in order to present that "total package", which is a line I blatantly stole from Toddlers & Tiarras <ggg>, but it works.

Okay, I hope I haven't stepped on any toes. I'm truly not trying to cause a riot here, I've just been around the showing block a long, long, time. In the world of USEF, you would never, EVER show without a hunt coat in medal classes or eq.over. If you did, you would seriously offend some judges. At the breed shows, you would never, EVER enter a rail classes (or even showmanship) without a fake tail. If you did, you would seriously offend some judges--yes, enough to be shown the gate. 

Pam


----------



## farmpony84

nrhareiner said:


> I do not use chaps myself. Do not like them at all.


 
...Sam I am....


----------



## corinowalk

Wow...this thread certainly did take off! Can we over run it with off topic just like we do every other 'heated' thread on here?!? j/k

Before I take off into my offtopic rant...heres my opinion. Wear your tail. Go for it. I hate that it holds a tail down. I love how an animated horse carries their tail. I used to ride an Appy who had his tail nerved...twice. It wasn't a nice experience when his show life was over and he had to go be a horse. The poor boy would drive himself crazy biting at flies because his tail no longer worked as God had intended it to. 

That being said, I am a former saddleseat rider. I rode and showed TWH and ASB's for about 6 years. I've put on a tail set which is disgusting. It makes me sick thinking of it. Saddleseat folks (scans the crowd...I hope there aren't any around!) defend this tail setting process saying it never bothers the horse. I've even known a few that say that their horses LIKE their tail sets. *rolls eyes* Its horrible. Why mess with nature? An ASB already has a naturally high tail set...why break the tail and reset it so that it stands up all the time?! 

As far as the...ahem...discussion is going with SH...I have one little thing to say. 

SH, Congrats on making it to a high level of showing. I mean this. Its quite an accomplishment for a young woman to do. However, you mentioning it in every single post that you make on this forum makes you sound like an insecure braggart. I have made it to a high level in my own right. I don't believe I've ever even brought it up on this forum. It was a long time ago. I am primarily a trail rider...insecure people made me burn out of showing. 

*steps down off the soapbox*


----------



## farmpony84

PBritton2U said:


> I've been lurking around this thread, kind of afraid to jump in, honestly, but I really feel I need to articulate what Sorelhorse is trying to say. I feel sorry for Sorelhorse. What's more_, I believe her._
> 
> I was just like many of you once upon a time. I knew a bit about breed shows, had friends that competed at a national level, even kept my horse at a barn with many APHA world champions, but I had NO CLUE what it was like until I jumped in full-time. I've BEEN in that class with a bazillion horses that all look the same. I've competed in classes where not just one or two people were really good--but EVERY horse and EVERY rider was dead-nuts, spot on, absolutely FANTASTIC.
> 
> Here's the kicker: When you get to this level, something as completely silly and (in many observer's eyes) uncessary as a fake tail can and WILL make a difference between first and second place. All things being equal--a stellar pattern, brilliant riding, a wonderful horse--when a judge looks down at their card and they need a tie-breaker, guess what will come into play? Grooming.
> 
> Although many of you would _like_ to believe that a fake tail doesn't count towards your total score, it does. All though many of you think that a judge _wouldn't really_ discount a rider for not having one, YES THEY WILL. For every judge that would look past a rider brave enough to ditch the tail, there are old school, dyed-in-the wool judges that would be mortified to see a rider in a rail class without one. Though it's not in any rule book, it's simply the way it is. It's like banding/braiding. You don't HAVE to do it, but you do. The same unspoken rule applies at the big USEF show. You braid.
> 
> Now, do I believe that there might come a day when fake tails go out of style? I think that's totally possible, but that day is NOT today. In today's world--at the WORLD LEVEL--you need a fake tail in order to present that "total package", which is a line I blatantly stole from Toddlers & Tiarras <ggg>, but it works.
> 
> Okay, I hope I haven't stepped on any toes. I'm truly not trying to cause a riot here, I've just been around the showing block a long, long, time. In the world of USEF, you would never, EVER show without a hunt coat in medal classes or eq.over. If you did, you would seriously offend some judges. At the breed shows, you would never, EVER enter a rail classes (or even showmanship) without a fake tail. If you did, you would seriously offend some judges--yes, enough to be shown the gate.
> 
> Pam


yeah... what she said.... it's true... and to be honost, in those breed shows, the level of competition really is there.....


----------



## Alwaysbehind

farmpony84 said:


> yeah... what she said.... it's true... and to be honost, in those breed shows, the level of competition really is there.....


Not in the breed shows I have watched. 

And some of the people I have known that have ridden at Congress, let me put it this way, unless they road VERY differently at Congress than they did at home, then everyone else must have been not too pretty for them to get those ribbons.


----------



## nrhareiner

Funny the Select WC WP horse in 2008 won with no fake tail and gasp a LONG mane. All nicely done. Can and will some judges come down to that? I am sure in some classes yes it would come down to that. However it does not always come down to that.

Also do not think that I have not shown a lot. I have. Worse yet Reining being the B-child of AQHA we are always the last class of the day. So while all the rest pack up and never give us anouther though we have to sit though all the other classes. That is why most reiners do not show AQHA. Bad footing no drag and always last. Not to mention no money. So do not think for one min. That I have not seen what goes on. Also as a Pro Photographer I shoot a lot of shows also. From reining, speed events, to HUS, WP, A rated H/J Shows. Have seen it all.

The fact is that yes a fake tail might look good. However it is not the end all be all of grooming. If it comes down to grooming and fitting of the horse. Does not matter if one has a fake tail if it does not look real and everything else is not in order. It might be part of the whole package however it is not the package. 

Like I said. I have stood stallions re champion at halter with long manes and no fake tail. I show all my horses with no fake tail. Although I put a lot of work into my horses manes and tails and they do not need them.


----------



## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> Not in the breed shows I have watched.
> 
> And some of the people I have known that have ridden at Congress, let me put it this way, unless they road VERY differently at Congress than they did at home, then everyone else must have been not too pretty for them to get those ribbons.


You are just jelous because they have way more money then you and me and Speed and Spyder and Josh and all those around us put together!


----------



## Alwaysbehind

I bet if the same horse that won went into the ring with out a fake tail they would still win.

I think this is kind of a chicken and egg thing. 

Does the fake tail help them win, or are the winning people just using fake tails?


----------



## Alwaysbehind

farmpony84 said:


> You are just jelous because they have way more money then you and me and Speed and Spyder and Josh and all those around us put together!


Laugh!

Yes, that must be it.


----------



## nrhareiner

Alwaysbehind said:


> I bet if the same horse that won went into the ring with out a fake tail they would still win.
> 
> I think this is kind of a chicken and egg thing.
> 
> Does the fake tail help them win, or are the winning people just using fake tails?



I think you hit it right on the head there. The people winning would have one anyway. If it was so close when it comes down to the last 2. Take them out put them in front of a different judge and the odder could be reversed.


----------



## Alwaysbehind

nrhareiner said:


> Take them out put them in front of a different judge and the odder could be reversed.


Isn't that the truth.

It was interesting to watch the big appy show on line a bit back. The classes were placed under all four judges and some classes the placings were not even close from judge to judge. In the one halter class the horse that won under the one judge did not get anything under the other three judges.
In one halter class there was one horse that had a long natural mane and a natural tail and it was placing fine.


----------



## nrhareiner

That is why they use so many judges on the larger shows. Then they normally drop the high and low and then place the horses. At the NRHA Futurity there are 6 judges. 5 Ring judges and 1 bit judge. They then drop the high and low and add the other 3 together to get the placings. This is done over 2 runs added together then a clean slate finals.


----------



## Speed Racer

farmpony84 said:


> You are just jelous because they have way more money then you and me and Speed and Spyder and Josh and all those around us put together!


Yeah, that's it. I'm jealous. Poor, poor, pitiful me! Won't someone pat me on the head and tell me I'm super speshul and wunnerful? I'm feeling sensitive. Sniff.... 

I hear ya about the judges. The Arabian Nationals also uses multiple judges for the halter classes. Some of the placings by different judges are just whacked!


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Speed Racer said:


> Some of the placings by different judges are just whacked!


Not whacked. Just proves you are paying for the opinion of a person.


----------



## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> I bet if the same horse that won went into the ring with out a fake tail they would still win.
> 
> I think this is kind of a chicken and egg thing.
> 
> Does the fake tail help them win, or are the winning people just using fake tails?


Whoa.... that's deep.....:shock:


----------



## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> Not whacked. Just proves you are paying for the opinion of a person.


I got an 8th under one judge and a 3rd under another once.....


----------



## Alwaysbehind

farmpony84 said:


> I got an 8th under one judge and a 3rd under another once.....


Giggle...maybe you did not have your fake tail adjusted correctly so the 8th place judge marked you down.


----------



## nrhareiner

One time one of my reiners scores between 2 judges where 3 points apart. How in the world do you get a difference in 3 points??


----------



## smrobs

Wow, this whole thing has been rather entertaining. Since it's all rainy, windy, and crappy here today I didn't have anything else to do anyway LOL.

I have never understood the apparent fascination with fake tails. I think they are ugly and useless simply because _they are fake_. I guess that's probably one of the reasons why I don't show or judge is because I want to judge the horse on what he's got, not how dolled up the owner can make him. If he has a scraggly tail and stand up mane, then do your best to make him look good with what you have to work with and show him like that. It doesn't change the way he travels or how he responds to cues to have 5 pounds of crappy looking _thing_ hanging off his butt, so why put it there. It is distracting much the same way dark roots on a bottle blonde woman are distracting. It's one of those things that I look at that make me go............Eh, _why? _As for the whole keeping the tail still?? That's hilarious. If a judge can't tell the difference between a tail wringer and a horse that just moves his tail around some, then they have no business judging and should be relieved of their duties. I prefer a horse that will move their tail around a bit because that is natural. It looks fake and ridiculous for a horse to do an entire class without moving their tail at all. Even though it might not be the case, my first thought is always 'blocked tail'.

People who do things to animals simply for the sake of "fashion" soon cease to care about the actual animal (if they ever did in the first place). It turns into "What can I do to make him win?" not "What can I do to help him be better?"


----------



## sorelhorse

PBritton2U said:


> I've been lurking around this thread, kind of afraid to jump in, honestly, but I really feel I need to articulate what Sorelhorse is trying to say. I feel sorry for Sorelhorse. What's more_, I believe her._
> 
> I was just like many of you once upon a time. I knew a bit about breed shows, had friends that competed at a national level, even kept my horse at a barn with many APHA world champions, but I had NO CLUE what it was like until I jumped in full-time. I've BEEN in that class with a bazillion horses that all look the same. I've competed in classes where not just one or two people were really good--but EVERY horse and EVERY rider was dead-nuts, spot on, absolutely FANTASTIC.
> 
> Here's the kicker: When you get to this level, something as completely silly and (in many observer's eyes) uncessary as a fake tail can and WILL make a difference between first and second place. All things being equal--a stellar pattern, brilliant riding, a wonderful horse--when a judge looks down at their card and they need a tie-breaker, guess what will come into play? Grooming.
> 
> Although many of you would _like_ to believe that a fake tail doesn't count towards your total score, it does. All though many of you think that a judge _wouldn't really_ discount a rider for not having one, YES THEY WILL. For every judge that would look past a rider brave enough to ditch the tail, there are old school, dyed-in-the wool judges that would be mortified to see a rider in a rail class without one. Though it's not in any rule book, it's simply the way it is. It's like banding/braiding. You don't HAVE to do it, but you do. The same unspoken rule applies at the big USEF show. You braid.
> 
> Now, do I believe that there might come a day when fake tails go out of style? I think that's totally possible, but that day is NOT today. In today's world--at the WORLD LEVEL--you need a fake tail in order to present that "total package", which is a line I blatantly stole from Toddlers & Tiarras <ggg>, but it works.
> 
> Okay, I hope I haven't stepped on any toes. I'm truly not trying to cause a riot here, I've just been around the showing block a long, long, time. In the world of USEF, you would never, EVER show without a hunt coat in medal classes or eq.over. If you did, you would seriously offend some judges. At the breed shows, you would never, EVER enter a rail classes (or even showmanship) without a fake tail. If you did, you would seriously offend some judges--yes, enough to be shown the gate.
> 
> Pam


oh gosh, thankyou thankyou!!! haha that show tdlers and tairas is pretty funny-
and to someone who said congrats to the high level, but i brag-i kinda had to in order to prove my point. but thanks for the compliment.


----------



## HUSAngel

Alwaysbehind said:


> Not in the breed shows I have watched.
> 
> And some of the people I have known that have ridden at Congress, let me put it this way, unless they road VERY differently at Congress than they did at home, then everyone else must have been not too pretty for them to get those ribbons.


But, do you know what they are looking for at Congress?? Have you ever been trained to ride at the big AQHA Shows? In other words, HOW do you know if they are good or bad? You are formulating an opinion on something that you know very little about, or so it would appear by your posts. Watching a few lessons does not make anybody an expert, or having a simple converation with someone who has shown at Congress does not make an expert either. IMO, you need to walk the walk to talk the talk.

And, by the way.... PtHA and ApHA are NOT the same as APHA & AQHA shows. The level of competition is VASTLY different.


----------



## sorelhorse

HUSAngel said:


> But, do you know what they are looking for at Congress?? Have you ever been trained to ride at the big AQHA Shows? In other words, HOW do you know if they are good or bad? You are formulating an opinion on something that you know very little about, or so it would appear by your posts. Watching a few lessons does not make anybody an expert, or having a simple converation with someone who has shown at Congress does not make an expert either. IMO, you need to walk the walk to talk the talk.
> 
> And, by the way.... PtHA and ApHA are NOT the same as APHA & AQHA shows. The level of competition is VASTLY different.


exactly. unless you get serious experience, you cant tell.


----------



## PBritton2U

smrobs said:


> People who do things to animals simply for the sake of "fashion" soon cease to care about the actual animal (if they ever did in the first place). It turns into "What can I do to make him win?" not "What can I do to help him be better?"


I do not consider braiding a fake tail into my horse's hair ANY WORSE than tightening up my girth. Or pulling a mane. Or nailing a shoe on a foot. It _does_ _not hurt them._ My horse neither pins his ears or wrings his tail while going through the process. Nor does he wring it when I'm riding him, and believe me, this is a horse that lets me know when something is bugging him. 

To infer that I will soon traipse down the trail of animal cruelty--and that is exactly how I take your comment--is wildly unfair. You have no way of knowing how I or anybody else for that matter treats their horse. I happen to love my Bippy boy and I would no sooner do something to hurt him, or that I thought caused him great discomfort, than I would hurt my own child.

Pam


----------



## PBritton2U

farmpony84 said:


> Thank you! That really means alot. I actually have been trying to write books for a few years now. I have several that are in the works, but I always get stopped around page 20 something...:-(


 
DON'T STOP!!! You have a gift. A rare and precious gift that many, MANY people would kill for. Believe me, you have no idea how lucky you are. DON'T STOP NEXT TIME.

And now Spammy will step down from the soap box. :lol:

Pam


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## farmpony84

These tails go in several different ways. Mine is just a single braid that the tail gets tied into.


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## PBritton2U

PBritton2U said:


> All though many of you...


Has anyone else noticed that I'm a writer who can't spell? 

ALTHOUGH. A. L. T. H. O. U. G. H.


----------



## smrobs

PBritton, that was not directed at you, just a statement made in general. People who are in horses for the "fashion" are the reason there are huge, fugly halter horses that are never sound for riding and big lick TWH, even the head-draggers and tropers of the WP world. All that is done for the sake of fashion. I guess I am just too simple minded, but I just don't understand the point of something that doesn't aid the horse or the rider in some way. It doesn't make them ride better or move better. IMHO, it certainly doesn't make them look better so therefore I have no use for it.


----------



## PBritton2U

sorelhorse said:


> exactly. unless you get serious experience, you cant tell.


AND could you picture going up to someone like Isabelle Werth--someone who's won numerous medals in dressage--tapping her on the shoulder and saying, "Ditch the coat, honey. You shouldn't need it to win." :shock:

Pam


----------



## PBritton2U

smrobs said:


> PBritton, that was not directed at you, just a statement made in general. People who are in horses for the "fashion" are the reason there are huge, fugly halter horses that are never sound for riding and big lick TWH, even the head-draggers and tropers of the WP world. All that is done for the sake of fashion. I guess I am just too simple minded, but I just don't understand the point of something that doesn't aid the horse or the rider in some way. It doesn't make them ride better or move better. IMHO, it certainly doesn't make them look better so therefore I have no use for it.


 
Whew. Okay then.  {{{Hugs}}} (Plucking out my Mrs. Potatoe Head ANGRY eyes.)


----------



## nrhareiner

PBritton2U said:


> AND could you picture going up to someone like Isabelle Werth--someone who's won numerous medals in dressage--tapping her on the shoulder and saying, "Ditch the coat, honey. You shouldn't need it to win." :shock:
> 
> Pam


Dress requirements are part of the rules. They are set in the rule book as to what you MUST wear. There is no requirement for a fake tail in the rule book. It is not required to have a fake tail. It is just what people think they need.


----------



## sorelhorse

PBritton2U said:


> AND could you picture going up to someone like Isabelle Werth--someone who's won numerous medals in dressage--tapping her on the shoulder and saying, "Ditch the coat, honey. You shouldn't need it to win." :shock:
> 
> Pam


haha she would be like"who is this person talking to me? imagine if you actually went into an arena without a hunt coat! lol


----------



## sorelhorse

smrobs said:


> PBritton, that was not directed at you, just a statement made in general. People who are in horses for the "fashion" are the reason there are huge, fugly halter horses that are never sound for riding and big lick TWH, even the head-draggers and tropers of the WP world. All that is done for the sake of fashion. I guess I am just too simple minded, but I just don't understand the point of something that doesn't aid the horse or the rider in some way. It doesn't make them ride better or move better. IMHO, it certainly doesn't make them look better so therefore I have no use for it.


just fyi-my horse was that haltr horse, second in the nation actually, and now hes completely sound to ride and excells in showing and not being lame


----------



## smrobs

I don't know why you seem to take everything as a personal attack. I was not talking about your horse. I seem to recall I said "there _are_ huge, fugly halter horses that are not sound to ride." I didn't say that _none_ of them are sound, nor did I make any mention of your horse in particular.


----------



## sorelhorse

smrobs said:


> I don't know why you seem to take everything as a personal attack. I was not talking about your horse. I seem to recall I said "there _are_ huge, fugly halter horses that are not sound to ride." I didn't say that _none_ of them are sound, nor did I make any mention of your horse in particular.


 nor did i say you did. just and fyi that those "fugly fat horses" are sound to ride. of course not all of them, but a few of them sure can


----------



## PBritton2U

nrhareiner said:


> Dress requirements are part of the rules. They are set in the rule book as to what you MUST wear. There is no requirement for a fake tail in the rule book. It is not required to have a fake tail. It is just what people think they need.


I just KNEW someone would say this, Lol. So substitute hoof oil or coat polish or combing out a horse tail or any of the other things that aren't part of the "rules", but are part of the routine for competiton.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## wyominggrandma

Okay, I just have to give everyone a breather and a good laugh. There was a young girl here in the valley who had bought a very very expensive Quarter Horse to show locally, this was back a few years when we had AQHA and APHA point shows... Anyway, her dad put the horse in a corral before a show and there were calves in the pen next to it. Of course, the calves proceeded to eat the tail off this horse, and it had a long, thick lovely tail, down to the ground, absolutely beautiful. Anyway, they bought a fake tail and showed the horse. In one of the classes, I think it was team penning or something, and all the horses came into the arena so the judges could tell them what they wanted. As the horses were walking back out and crowding around the gate another horse stepped on the fake tail, it fell off and wrapped around the horses back legs like a giant spider. That horse took off bucking and snorting and the harder he bucked, the more the tail got wrapped around his legs. It was pretty funny to watch, nobody got hurt and the dead tail was picked up and thrown away.


----------



## AlexS

Funny that in a thread about showing western horses the 2nd post in the thread is a terrible (IMO) example of a fake tail. 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-showmanship/basic-tips-65464/#post758037


----------



## WickedNag

sorelhorse said:


> just fyi-my horse was that haltr horse, second in the nation actually, and now hes completely sound to ride and excells in showing and not being lame


What is your horses name? What did he place 2nd in Pinto or Paint? Thanks I would love to see his show record  My best friend won Nationals at the Pinto show years ago...not even sure what classes she was showing in. I know she had horse of the year too.
Thanks


----------



## Alwaysbehind

HUSAngel said:


> But, do you know what they are looking for at Congress?? Have you ever been trained to ride at the big AQHA Shows? In other words, HOW do you know if they are good or bad? You are formulating an opinion on something that you know very little about, or so it would appear by your posts. Watching a few lessons does not make anybody an expert, or having a simple converation with someone who has shown at Congress does not make an expert either. IMO, you need to walk the walk to talk the talk.
> 
> And, by the way.... PtHA and ApHA are NOT the same as APHA & AQHA shows. The level of competition is VASTLY different.


:roll:

So, because I do not show AQHA I can not know a person who lacks even basic horsemanship skills when I see them?

Do you realize how funny that is?


I do not show dressage either, but I can still tell a dressage rider that lacks basic ability when I see madly flailing arms, constant see-sawing on the horses face, shoulders dropping on corners and overly extreme leg ques. 

It does not take some extra fantastic showing record to know a bad rider when you see one. I am not talking about show specific idiosyncrasies here. (Like being behind the motion, etc.)


Sorel, you can not quote someone and then say "oh no, I was not referencing you". :wink: Good try though.



AlexS said:


> Funny that in a thread about showing western horses _<snip>_


The title of the thread is actually HUS. Though I agree, it is in the western riding section.

I agree, that the fake tail in that photo is very obvious!


----------



## farmpony84

Nobody likes me, everybody hates me, I wear a fake tail! (that's my new song, does anybody like it?)


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Farmpony, I want to see photos of *you* wearing your fake tail.


----------



## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> Farmpony, I want to see photos of *you* wearing your fake tail.


My first really big show in Lexington we had about 20 riders in the class. My tail came off. I didn't know it until the judge handed it to me. I took the tail and shoved it under my hat and wore it like a pony tail while we stood in the line-up waiting for the placings. My trainer almost peed her pants. I didn't place in that class. I am certain it's because my tail fell off and not because my horse was two years old and loped faster then a speeding bullet with his head in the clouds. It was my tail......


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Yes, of course it was your tail. It for sure could not have been your lack of proper frame and gaits....noper...never that...always the tail. 

Did anyone take photos of your hair piece look?


----------



## Speed Racer

farmpony84 said:


> I didn't place in that class. I am certain it's because my tail fell off and not because my horse was two years old and loped faster then a speeding bullet with his head in the clouds. It was my tail......


Well, duh! You committed the ultimate sin by losing your tail! Had you managed to keep it afixed, you'd have WON the class!


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Those were probably those judges that are more concerned about a nice tail than anything else.


----------



## farmpony84

nobody took a picture! Can you believe? My trainer actually hid from me when I came out, she didn't want people to know I belonged to her!!!!


----------



## Jake and Dai

My I just chime in as the OP I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion?

Carry on...


----------



## Alwaysbehind

There are times when I think most trainers want to hide from their clients. I guess I can see why your trainer was thinking hiding was a good idea then. I probably would have been laughing so hard that it would have been clear I was associated with you.

Bummer that there are no photos.



Edit to add:
Oh, I thought of another reason you did not win. Still associated with the lack of tail. I am sure as soon as the weight of the fake tail was gone your horse went from no tail movement at all to wild and crazy tail mayhem. A judge has no choice to not place you then.


----------



## farmpony84

What! Not my little precious! He's perfect! Hmph. How dare you! Poopbutt! AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!:-x

Farmpony races around the room grabbing for anything small enough to throw. She flings a half eaten bagel across the room. She Grabs the plastic milk jug from the counter not realizing the cap is not secured. Milk spews from the carton, soaking her forearm and half her shirt. Milk droplets hang from her dark lashes as she screams out of control, too angry to form any coherent words.....


----------



## nrhareiner

farmpony84 said:


> She Grabs the plastic milk jug from the counter not realizing the cap is not secured. Milk spews from the carton, soaking her forearm and half her shirt.



That happens here even without being made. Oh boy. I could be made too?? Will have to go back and try again.


----------



## PBritton2U

AlexS said:


> Funny that in a thread about showing western horses the 2nd post in the thread is a terrible (IMO) example of a fake tail.
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-showmanship/basic-tips-65464/#post758037


I assume you're referring to my avatar? Yeah? If so, we've already discussed the matter. Welcome to the tail-bashing party!

Pam


----------



## farmpony84

PBritton2U said:


> I assume you're referring to my avatar? Yeah? If so, we've already discussed the matter. Welcome to the tail-bashing party!
> 
> Pam


I didn't think your tail was bad, but since I'm a fake tail person myself...


----------



## farmpony84

I still think my fake tail looks good. THWWWWP!!!


----------



## Jake and Dai

AlexS said:


> Funny that in a thread about showing western horses the 2nd post in the thread is a terrible (IMO) example of a fake tail.
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-showmanship/basic-tips-65464/#post758037


Actually PBritton...I think AlexS is referring to the 2nd post in the link provided above...it's a video and shows a horse at a show with a massive fake tail.


----------



## smrobs

FP, yours actually isn't bad because it _does_ look natural. It isn't uncommon to see a horse with a natural tail of that thickness. It's when they look like bell-bottom pants that its truly ridiculous. (like the one in the link above).


----------



## farmpony84

Jake and Dai said:


> Actually PBritton...I think AlexS is referring to the 2nd post in the link provided above...it's a video and shows a horse at a show with a massive fake tail.


Although I am the great defender of the fake tail... cus I'm all about the AQHA thing and tails are a part of it unless you are a reinger type person... 

I wanted to say that when Sorelhorse and PBritton were explaining the whys behind the introduction of the fake tails they mentioned the tail carriage. That particular horse carries it's tail like an arab. It's up and kind of off to the side, which leads me to believe it may have been at one time "fixed" which to me it looks like it could even have some calcium build up from being fixed. That tail is massively heavy and I would say that it's probably extra heavy to try to make the horse carry the tail "properly". That's where the use of a fake tail gets out of hand.... 

I still defend my tail! (hand is fisted and waving right now)


----------



## Jake and Dai

farmpony84 said:


> I still defend my tail! (hand is fisted and waving right now)


I think Riley's tail looks quite nice in that picture above as does PBritton's avatar horse.

Ok...it's hard not to stop giggling after I just wrote that...my DH's name is Riley. :rofl:


----------



## Alwaysbehind

smrobs said:


> FP, yours actually isn't bad because it _does_ look natural. It isn't uncommon to see a horse with a natural tail of that thickness. It's when they look like bell-bottom pants that its truly ridiculous. (like the one in the link above).


This, I agree with this!

FP's fake tail (on her horse, not on her head) looks fine. It looks natural. 

The one in that video is hideous!


----------



## corinowalk

My commentary on the video of the horse with the gigantic fake tail. 

That horse is beautiful. Nicely muscled, not over done. Great conformation. Looks well groomed, neat and tidy. His handler looks much the same. Nice crisp movements, knows her job as well as her horse knows his. The problem? I CANT STOP STARING AT THAT TAIL! Its STUPID big. I have NEVER seen a QH with a tail that big naturally! In her case, I would have marked her DOWN for having a tail. Its distracting to his natural beauty!


----------



## Alwaysbehind

Well said, Corino.


----------



## farmpony84

corinowalk said:


> My commentary on the video of the horse with the gigantic fake tail.
> 
> That horse is beautiful. Nicely muscled, not over done. Great conformation. Looks well groomed, neat and tidy. His handler looks much the same. Nice crisp movements, knows her job as well as her horse knows his. The problem? I CANT STOP STARING AT THAT TAIL! Its STUPID big. I have NEVER seen a QH with a tail that big naturally! In her case, I would have marked her DOWN for having a tail. Its distracting to his natural beauty!


It actually draws attention to her one major flaw.


----------



## smrobs

Agreed, well said. I kinda wonder if maybe the horse carries its tail cocked_ because_ of the tail. I know when I am brushing out the tails on mine and pull a small clump of hair a bit too hard, they will often lift their tail and cock it out to the side away from the pull like that.


----------



## farmpony84

mine cock their tails like that so I'll scratch there butts... under the tail... and ... I will....


----------



## corinowalk

My QH like to have his tail rubbed...Creepy! If you would walk behind him he would lift it up and look at you! It was really soothing for him. Once during a particularly bad teeth floating I had someone hold his head while I rubbed under his tail. He almost fell asleep. What a weirdo!


----------



## smrobs

LOL, glad I'm not the only one that succumbs to that particular plea. Even Dobe has gotten to where he will position himself with me next to his hip so that I will scratch the sides of his tail. And, Rafe, well, there's just no hope for him LOL.


----------



## PBritton2U

Alwaysbehind said:


> Not in the breed shows I have watched.
> 
> And some of the people I have known that have ridden at Congress, let me put it this way, unless they road VERY differently at Congress than they did at home, *then everyone else must have been not too pretty for them to get those ribbons*.


Alwaysbehind, you really have a low opinion of most breed show riders, don't you?

Pam


----------



## Alwaysbehind

PBritton2U said:


> Alwaysbehind, you really have a low opinion of most breed show riders, don't you?


You must have an amazing ability to miss the point of my post. :wink:

No, I have no problem with people who are good at what they have chosen to do. I see no reason for everyone to ride the same style.

My point was, that you intentionally ignored, the competition is not always near so stiff as everyone was trying to imply it is/was. I know of a person whose riding is barely past beginner levels who managed to get a ribbon at congress. (Let me add that I know the competition is pretty stiff in the junior levels.)

I also know some people who do well at breed shows (paint for one, appy for the other) and I think that is great. They work hard for it.

Please read what I wrote. Not what you want to assume I am saying.


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## PBritton2U

Alwaysbehind said:


> Please read what I wrote. Not what you want to assume I am saying.


Actually, I was basing my opinion on not just the snipped post, but other things you've said in the past, too. You come across as loathing all things breed show, especially in this particular thread. Hear what I'm saying: _That's how you come across._

And if I missed the point of your post it's because you lumped Congress competitors into one giant heap by saying, *And some of the people I have known that have ridden at Congress...then everyone else must have been not too pretty for them to get those ribbons*. People. Them. Plural. More than one rider in multiple classes. Given that most classes have upwards of sixty riders (usually more like 100), that's a lot of bad riders. 

I also took your comment to mean that it's easy to get a ribbon at Congress. But I guess what you're saying is that it's easy to get a ribbon in certain classes because some of those classes aren't too competitive. That statement I completely disagree with. It's not easy to get a ribbon in ANY class at Congress. Ever. With sixty people in a class (and I'm being generous here because I actually think the average number is more like 80 or 90), is it really plausible to have 59 bad riders? Really?

I suppose it's possible there are classes--over fences comes to mind--that aren't as competitive. But I suspect you weren't talking about the over fence classes. Then again, I don't know. I'm not you.

Looking forward to more clarification. 

Pam 

Pam


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## farmpony84

Alwaysbehind said:


> You must have an amazing ability to miss the point of my post. :wink:
> 
> No, I have no problem with people who are good at what they have chosen to do. I see no reason for everyone to ride the same style.
> 
> My point was, that you intentionally ignored, *the competition is not always near so stiff as everyone was trying to imply it is/was.* I know of a person whose riding is barely past beginner levels who managed to get a ribbon at congress. (Let me add that I know the competition is pretty stiff in the junior levels.)
> 
> I also know some people who do well at breed shows (paint for one, appy for the other) and I think that is great. They work hard for it.
> 
> Please read what I wrote. Not what you want to assume I am saying.


In my opinion, it's stiff. Most of the people I've been up against have trainers that ride their horses right up until time for them to go into the ring. I'll see horses I've competed agains for sale for upwards of $50k on dreamhorse.com. I'm not saying everyone I compete against is world level but.. they are good... and they have money.

Another thing I had seen and chose not to comment on was the people showing at Congress. What alot of people don't know is that Congress is _just_ another horse show. It started as a three day show that grew into this huge month long event that has vendors and everything else. The class fees are astronomical and there are generally about 40-50 horses per class (that's why people brag about a top 10 at congress - it's a big deal to place top 10 out of 40 or 50 horses). BUT... anyone can go. You don't have to qualify for congress. So these beginner people that are bragging about going to congress... are probably going, just not placing.


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## farmpony84

oopsie... I posted without reading PBrittons response... I'd like to caveat mine with "What she said!"


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## nrhareiner

Congress has shrunk a lot over the past few years. It is not as large as it once was. They have priced themselves over what most want or can pay. Even the venders are running for the hills.


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## PBritton2U

nrhareiner said:


> Congress has shrunk a lot over the past few years. It is not as large as it once was. They have priced themselves over what most want or can pay. Even the venders are running for the hills.


 
Way off topic, LOL, but I think all the shows have shrunk. :-( While looking up the numbers for Congress (yes, I actually Googled +average +class +numbers +Congress, LOL. Ended up actually pulling up last year's results for Congress.), I ran across a press release touting the Oregon Classic as the fourth largest show in the nation. I was like, arooo? That was NOT a large show, at least not by my standards. Sure, we had 20 riders in some classes, but not in all of them. And yet that's being hailed as the fourth largest show in the nation? Sad. 

I think a lot of QH shows are pricing themselves out of the market, especially in today's economy. They need to have a bargain discount, super sale on class fees, Quarter Horse show. :lol:

Pam


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## farmpony84

I think that's why they've dropped the permits for Novice riders. You don't have to own the horse to show Novice anymore (As of July 1st).


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## nrhareiner

farmpony84 said:


> I think that's why they've dropped the permits for Novice riders. You don't have to own the horse to show Novice anymore (As of July 1st).


Yes I was like OH now I am going to have several people wanting to barrow one of my horses. NRHA has had this type rule for years and out Green and Rookie classes are quite larger.


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## PBritton2U

farmpony84 said:


> What alot of people don't know is that Congress is _just_ another horse show.... anyone can go. You don't have to qualify for congress. So these beginner people that are bragging about going to congress... are probably going, just not placing.


This is a really good point. I saw some really sucky goes last year. But those goes were few and far between. For the most part people were pretty poised and polished.

I think that's why Alwaysbehind's post hit such a nerve with me. There are so many wonderful riders there--to infer that there must be _some_ classes where 50+ riders must all suck since the people at Alwaysbehind's barn win ribbons--and they're can't ride. Well. Wow.

Anyway, I've got to dash. I probably won't be checking e-mail again until later in the day. I have to go wash and band my horse for a show tomorrow. 

Alwaysbehind, I wish you well..whatever your response to my posts might be.  

Pam


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## smrobs

I think that one of the big problems with the AQHA breed shows is that there isn't any actual monetary winnings, it's all points. For your average person who doesn't breed or train super duper QH's it's very hard to come up with the money it takes to get involved in those types of shows. Trainers do it because they just charge all the expenses to the owners, breeders do it to get more points on their horse so that they can charge more for stud fees or offspring. If I wanted to train and show my own horse, I couldn't afford it.


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## farmpony84

There are paybacks to some of the classes and then if you have an incentive fund horse there is money but...

Earning points in AQHA is not an easy task. When someone tells you they have 10 ponts, that's a big deal.

Let's say there are only 3-4 entries in a class. 1st place earns a half point. That's it. For 5-9 entries 1st will get a point and 2nd will get a half point. I think it go's up to like 9 points for a first place finish, but there would have to be like 45 horses in that class.....

SO...the smaller the show the less chance you have of earning points unless you are the "big weener" for the day...


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## sorelhorse

PBritton2U said:


> Actually, I was basing my opinion on not just the snipped post, but other things you've said in the past, too. You come across as loathing all things breed show, especially in this particular thread. Hear what I'm saying: _That's how you come across._
> 
> And if I missed the point of your post it's because you lumped Congress competitors into one giant heap by saying, *And some of the people I have known that have ridden at Congress...then everyone else must have been not too pretty for them to get those ribbons*. People. Them. Plural. More than one rider in multiple classes. Given that most classes have upwards of sixty riders (usually more like 100), that's a lot of bad riders.
> 
> I also took your comment to mean that it's easy to get a ribbon at Congress. But I guess what you're saying is that it's easy to get a ribbon in certain classes because some of those classes aren't too competitive. That statement I completely disagree with. It's not easy to get a ribbon in ANY class at Congress. Ever. With sixty people in a class (and I'm being generous here because I actually think the average number is more like 80 or 90), is it really plausible to have 59 bad riders? Really?
> 
> I suppose it's possible there are classes--over fences comes to mind--that aren't as competitive. But I suspect you weren't talking about the over fence classes. Then again, I don't know. I'm not you.
> 
> Looking forward to more clarification.
> 
> Pam
> 
> Pam


not only to mention that beginner riders arent that bad. If your a complete begginer and suck common sense is going to say "lets not waste the money" or, common sense in a trainer would say"i think you should wait tell next year." so obviously, yes theres begginers, but not bad beginers at all. and with 100 people in the class, so maybe it shrunk to seventy, how many begginers are really there? not only is congress of all breedes huge shows, but so are worlds. these shows are the hardest place to win anything, let alone place top five or make it on a judges card. it is easy in noo way.


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## maura

Let's see if we can drag this thread back on topic. Here's an excerpt from the original post -



> his tail extension seemed a bit too heavy. It just didn't move as naturally as a real tail or some of the others in the class using extensions.
> 
> So I was just wondering, is it a disadvantage to NOT use one? He was a pretty mover, at least in my uneducated opinion, but because the extension just seemed too heavy, it was a bit distracting...again, to my uneducated eye.


In and among the sniping, personal attacks, badly spelled and punctuated posts, opinions stated as facts, breed bashing and resulting breed defensiveness, I've tried to determine some broad themes:

Tail extensions look fake. People who use them don't care that they look fake. 

Using them is a convention, not a rule or regulation, in a lot of Western events, including halter and WP.

There is a perceived advantage to using one, as they are so commonplace at certain shows and events that you appear out of place not having one.

There is no earthly reason to use one in a speed or performance event.

Does that pretty much cover it? Can we move on to something else now?


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## VelvetsAB

_Great post maura._


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## maura

Oh, and farmpony's writing talents need a wider audience, I forgot that one!


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## farmpony84

...so... no more tail talk?


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## maura

18 pages of tail talk isn't enough for you?


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## farmpony84

Well... I hadn't gotten to use the peer preasure line of defense yet....

But I geuss we can move on to something else......


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## smrobs

But......but, fake tails are so funny.


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## farmpony84

That's HOT!


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## smrobs

I actually do have a legit question. I know that they come in set colors, but is there enough diversity to find a tail to match any color horse? Tails for bays, buckskins, browns, grays, etc would be fairly easy I imagine, but there are so many variations on the sorrel and chestnut colors. Do they carry, literally, every color under the sun?


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## farmpony84

Yes. There are many kinds as well. Certain colors can get very expensive. My little black tail was only about $100, it's a half lb or a lb. Not very heavy, half lb I think. My black tail has some red in it but they also have the jet black ones. They have different shades of brown... I have a friend that has a grey that has a funky tail, it has a light reddish brown, a grey, white and some blondish colors in it. The tail she has comes in about four pieces that braid in and mix up to match the color. Some tails will cost as much as $700...


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## smrobs

:shock:*craps and falls in it* $700? That's more than my saddle cost!!


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## farmpony84

****... I was at a horse show over the summer and they had the most beautiful shirts I kept looking at them, finally on the last day husband said, go get a shirt. You love them. Go get one. I'm thinking $200 which is more than I would ever spend but I ran to look at them. The first one I picked up was so freaking pretty. It sparkled and shown (I think that might be what drew me to western in the first place, the silver and the glitter and the sparkle and the bling).... The price on that shirt? THE SALE PRICE on that shirt? $2200!!!! It has Sworski crystals on it! OMIGOSH, I ran, I mean I RAN from that stand!!!


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## smrobs

****, you need to be a billionaire to even get _started_ in the show world LOL. Poor me, if I decided to show, I would be riding around in my plain saddle with my plain tack and my plain clothing. My poor horse would have to be nekkid too, no tail extensions for them .


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## farmpony84

maybe you could make one out of yarn?


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## smrobs

LOL, I wonder how they would respond to bright blue? Or maybe that shiny rainbow kind that my grandma used to use when she would crochet? :rofl:


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## MN Tigerstripes

Oooooo they make sparkly yarn! In rainbow colors! It would be soooo beautiful. You could even coordinate it with your outfits! 

You'd make it to Congress for sure and probably win in a second!


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## sandsarita

farmpony84 said:


> ****... I was at a horse show over the summer and they had the most beautiful shirts I kept looking at them, finally on the last day husband said, go get a shirt. You love them. Go get one. I'm thinking $200 which is more than I would ever spend but I ran to look at them. The first one I picked up was so freaking pretty. It sparkled and shown (I think that might be what drew me to western in the first place, the silver and the glitter and the sparkle and the bling).... The price on that shirt? THE SALE PRICE on that shirt? $2200!!!! It has Sworski crystals on it! OMIGOSH, I ran, I mean I RAN from that stand!!!


And here is one of the reasons I have switched to English over Western. The jackets I like seem to cost that price and up. Not something I can afford currently, and really don't want to afford. So many other things I want/need.

Oh, and I will raise my hand as both a fake tail user and a non-fake tail user. I have gone both ways. My current mare has a 1lb jet black tail that I made for $60 (they aren't hard to make, my old trainer taught me how). It looks great on her. Have used one on a sorrel gelding - we tried to weight it down (even did the evil thing and added fishing weights to it) but it never worked. Finally gave up and just used what he needed. Had another mare, that at the same time, I never put a fake tail on her as in comparisson to the same gelding, with his tail in, her natural tail looked just as thick. She would have looked ridiculous with anything added in.

Oh, and as a tip, if the tail catches between the legs, make sure you sand the chestnuts off as they can cactch on the tail, make sure your tail is well conditioned, and show sheen the daylights out of the hind legs. These will really help keep the tail from sticking; I've never had a big problem, and if the tail does get caught, it will come loose very quickly.


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## smrobs

I think Dobe would look wunnerful with this used as his tail extension .


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## Jake and Dai

smrobs said:


> I think Dobe would look wunnerful with this used as his tail extension .


I'm not quite sure what that is but it looks shiny and sparkly and like the crow I am I'm totally mesmerized by it.

Dobe would look fantastic with that attached to his tail!


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## sorelhorse

farmpony84 said:


> ****... I was at a horse show over the summer and they had the most beautiful shirts I kept looking at them, finally on the last day husband said, go get a shirt. You love them. Go get one. I'm thinking $200 which is more than I would ever spend but I ran to look at them. The first one I picked up was so freaking pretty. It sparkled and shown (I think that might be what drew me to western in the first place, the silver and the glitter and the sparkle and the bling).... The price on that shirt? THE SALE PRICE on that shirt? $2200!!!! It has Sworski crystals on it! OMIGOSH, I ran, I mean I RAN from that stand!!!


j
haha dont even get me started on the show clothes. this is one of the things im not to crazy about. the beautiful jackets that you see are much. i have a very good show friend who just got 3 jackets and chaps...lets just say it cost her 15 grand. anyways, the good thing though, is that the simple shirts are fairly easy to make.

but a very good way to get those beautiful ouftits and savvve money(is what i do for my outfits with a few exceptions) is but a good jacket, 200 or less with really not many stones. then add your own, its very time consuming but you will save a whooole bunch. eventually, all of my jackets are covered in swarovskis


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## Eliz

I love how men can buy a $10 collared shirt and women have to get $200 shirts AT THE LEAST!!

You know how arabs are known for their beauty and grace? Well, I guess manes & tails aren't included in that!! I wish they were, dumb stereotypes!!! My boy has the most whimpy tail


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## smrobs

Jake and Dai said:


> I'm not quite sure what that is but it looks shiny and sparkly and like the crow I am I'm totally mesmerized by it.


LOL. To quote Jeff Foxworthy:

"******** are attracted to shiny objects. UFO's, beer cans, fishing lures; if it's shiny, we like it. That's why bass boats have a glitter finish. You ever seen a yacht with a glitter finish? They put those bass boats out in the sunshine, we're hypnotized 'We must have it, here's our life savings'."


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## nrhareiner

Come come to the dark side. Where a $15 pair of wranglers and a nice shirt will do it.


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## smrobs

Where in the heck can you find Wranglers for $15?! All of them I have looked at in this area (guy's included) was no less than $25-$30. Mine that I am wearing now were actually $45.


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## nrhareiner

Wally world. They are $15-$15.95 something like that.


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## corinowalk

Come to THIS dark side. I don't HAVE to wear anything! LOL I trail ride!


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## nrhareiner

corinowalk said:


> Come to THIS dark side. I don't HAVE to wear anything! LOL I trail ride!



Do you not get arrested for indecent exposure?


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## smrobs

So tell me Cori, do you prefer saddle sores or hair in the unmentionables? *giggle*


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## Amarea

smrobs said:


> so tell me cori, do you prefer saddle sores or hair in the unmentionables? *giggle*


roflmbo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nrhareiner

My first thought was OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Eliz

Haha my first thought was EWW!!!

Not because I think Corino is a nasty person and should never be seen naked, but just imagine all the hair and dirt and horse sweat in odd places as smrobs said!!! Lol

I typed that like 5 different ways and it still sounds incredibly awkward. 
Oh well, I should just quit


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## PBritton2U

Shiney things = red neck. Love it!!! That explains so much. So I'm a fake tail-lovin', shiny bling wearin' Red Neck! Hey, that sounds like a country song. 

L.OL. I must be punchy from twisting in too many bands. Have a great weekend, everyone!

Pam
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## corinowalk

LOL I said you didn't HAVE to wear anything! Its recommended...but so are helmets!


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## Eliz

Lol sorry I'm still getting a visual of a naked person... only with a helmet. And maybe boots. Hahaha!


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## corinowalk

LOL you can scratch the helmet too. I've never been one to accentuate my already naturally large head. 

I can ride in shorts and a tank top though! I've been known in my younger years to ride bareback in a bathing suit. We were going swimming though!


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## farmpony84

******** like shiny things, explains ALOT...

Corina rides... neked.... confused now.....

$15 wranglers? WHAT! I pay 35-50 at Tractor Supply!

Cornia rides.... neked......


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## Jake and Dai

So I'm a red-neck crow. Ok...I'll buy that.

But at least i'm not a nekkid red-neck crow on horseback! yikes!


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## maura

My attempts to direct this thread have failed miserably. 

But at least I'm not riding naked.....


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## corinowalk

You are missing out Maura! LOL 

I am not nearly in the kind of shape you would need to be in to ride naked.


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## farmpony84

I wonder what husband would say if he came home and caught me riding bare-butt?


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## Alwaysbehind

Maura, I thought your attempt to get the thread back on track made tons of sense.

Cori, I am itchy just thinking about riding naked. Yuck.


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## WickedNag

nrhareiner said:


> Do you not get arrested for indecent exposure?


Now wiping my coffee off the monitor :rofl:


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## farmpony84

I'm sorry Maura... I couldn't help myself.... and now I'm really tempted to make a rainbow brite tail extension...

PS - I washed my tail on Saturday. It was kind of nice, hung it on the fence and didn't have to chase it or anything... it just hung there, perfectly still....... no swishing at the flies or anything... very well trained tail it is....


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## Alwaysbehind

Gotta love a well trained tail!

Farmpony, love your posts!


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## maura

AB, 

Let's see, our choices were -
a. self important seriousness and bickering
b. a rational discussion about showing conventions
c. silliness

I was going for choice b; but we got choice c. Both are way, way better than choice a, so I'm not complaining. 

Will I get in trouble for saying farmpony has a well behaved tail?


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## Alwaysbehind

maura said:


> Will I get in trouble for saying farmpony has a well behaved tail?


I would say not. Because she obvious does have a well behaved tail. :twisted: Who can fight with facts?


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## nrhareiner

FP. Did it hurt to take our well behaved tall off?


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## MN Tigerstripes

Oooo well behaved tails are nice. Maybe I should get one? It'd be a nice change of pace that's for sure.


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## PBritton2U

farmpony84 said:


> PS - I washed my tail on Saturday. It was kind of nice, hung it on the fence and didn't have to chase it or anything... it just hung there, perfectly still....... no swishing at the flies or anything... very well trained tail it is....


I wish the horse attached to _my_ tail on Saturday was as well-behaved as your tail, Farmpony. Sigh. :?

Pam


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## smrobs

My tails are only well behaved when they aren't slapping me in the face .


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## MaggiStar

^^^^
lol!!


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## farmpony84

I'm just hoping I didn't wash all the luck out of my tail!


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## PBritton2U

farmpony84 said:


> I'm just hoping I didn't wash all the luck out of my tail!


Did you see my new Avatar? And the message beneath? I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist. Sometimes I can't resist amusing myself. :lol:

Pam


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## farmpony84

Omigosh! copied and pasted!!!!!!!!!


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## PBritton2U

farmpony84 said:


> Omigosh! copied and pasted!!!!!!!!!


I'm still giggling. I know I shouldn't. I know I should just drop it, but I can't. Seem. To. Stop. Myself.

ROTFL.

Pam
FART Member


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