# ABC news investigative report on TWH abuse.



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I just found out about this. Apparently the entire story airs tonite at 11:30. ** Video is GRAPHIC**

Tennessee Walking Horses Abused? - ABC News


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Glad to see a light being shone on the issue...........


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Omfg!!!


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## Adam (Feb 6, 2012)

Holy crap.....


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## TWHGirl (May 17, 2012)

This is an outrage. Very sad to know that some people are so obsessed with winning that they'll subject an animal to this kind of torment. If it were up to me, these people would be locked up in prison forever.

As an owner of both padded and lite shod horses, I find Jackie's actions to be absolutely horrendous and sickening. The stable hands and the owners of those poor horses should also get in trouble for this. Unbelievable.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I remember a couple of years ago reading the articles about the increased scrutiny/inspections at shows where when the inspectors would show up there would be all sorts of exhibitors that would just pack up and leave to avoid being inspected -- yeah, nothing says, "Nothing to see here" like everyone running away.......


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Ugh .. I could go throw up now..

Unfortunately cheating happens in every venue WHEN winning becomes more important than honesty and ethics.

It can start with simple cheating "while the judge isn't looking" .. and lead to horrors in training or "tricks" in the stall areas at the show.

Win win win win win ... greed ... it can eat away at someone with a less than stellar moral compass...

So sad. I lived in Tennessee .. I try to avoid these TWH threads. They are such nice nice nice animals .. exploited and abused for the almighty WIN and $$$ ...

Someone say goodbye .. I need to leave this thread...............


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## TWHGirl (May 17, 2012)

themacpack said:


> I remember a couple of years ago reading the articles about the increased scrutiny/inspections at shows where when the inspectors would show up there would be all sorts of exhibitors that would just pack up and leave to avoid being inspected -- yeah, nothing says, "Nothing to see here" like everyone running away.......


That is true. But the way I see it...at least they're running away. If we could get consistently stringent inspections at all shows then the lowlifes would eventually run out of places to hide and they'd no longer have a reason to stay in business. Unfortunately, money is the limiting reagent and the federal government more often than not only hands out wrist slaps to people who are caught doing this stuff. Jackie is trying to enter into a plea bargain which, if it is accepted, will result in the other 51 counts being dropped.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I am wondering if this has had ripples throughout the TWH world. WE are currently having the breed shows here in NY, and I heard that not one TWH showed up. It is typically TWH, Saddlebreds, Morgans and Arabs. 

I cannot even believe any owner allows their horses to be put on those block like things. They must have exceedingly short careers.....and how do the insurance underwriters insure these high dollar animals knowing this? Wow. I find this really unbelievable. I only wish I could take a cattle prod to that trainer.......:evil: It really takes so many folks having knowledge of this and doing nothing that it is beyond my comprehension. From owners to grooms to vets.....many had to know.


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## hhkcdevries (May 12, 2012)

This happens everyday!! Not just TWH. It is sickening and sad to think that the animal doesn't know what true happiness is. Being subjected to such measures one would almost think that these animals would end up by hurting someone BAD (ie the so called lowlife trainers)!! AS THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO!! It makes my blood boil. To see the fear and sadness in the eyes of the abused horses I work with is sickening enough. I honestly feel I would punch, kick, & fight a person if I ever saw it happening. Probably would pick up the closest object and start beating them.


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## TWHGirl (May 17, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> I am wondering if this has had ripples throughout the TWH world. WE are currently having the breed shows here in NY, and I heard that not one TWH showed up. It is typically TWH, Saddlebreds, Morgans and Arabs.
> 
> I cannot even believe any owner allows their horses to be put on those block like things. They must have exceedingly short careers.....and how do the insurance underwriters insure these high dollar animals knowing this? Wow. I find this really unbelievable. I only wish I could take a cattle prod to that trainer.......:evil: It really takes so many folks having knowledge of this and doing nothing that it is beyond my comprehension. From owners to grooms to vets.....many had to know.


The pads actually don't harm the horse. There is a specific height and slope requirement for the pad in relation to the individual horse's foot that can't be deviated from at all. When you take into consideration those things as well as the way in which the foot is trimmed and packed (the grooves in and around the frog are packed with a tar or leather based product like magic cushion to allow it to function unimpeded as a shock absorber), the foot and leg have no more stress placed on them than if the horse were standing flat on the ground. Most of these horses are still sound in their 20's and 30's long after their careers as show horses have ended, assuming they have not been subjected to the cruel practice of soring. We actually have a padded performance division for horses aged 15 and over.

It's what people do in addition to padding or in lieu of adequate training that crosses that line over into abuse. As with all breeds, we have our bad (well, rotten, really) apples and they can be very difficult to uncover even upon professional inspection. To demonstrate this difficulty, several horses that were initially seized in this case were inspected by an independent veterinarian selected by the government and were found to be in good condition. The video proves that abuse happened, but no physical traces of it can be found on the horses. This is complicated further by the fact that people are afforded quite a bit of constitutional protection against search of their property. I wish that there was a way to permit unannounced visitations of people suspected of seedy practices but as the laws stand today, that isn't possible. It's a very frustrating situation for everybody who actually wants to put an end to abuse in the Walking Horse world.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> how do the insurance underwriters insure these high dollar animals knowing this?


 Good question, I'm not sure.

Absolutely despicable.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

TWHGirl said:


> The pads actually don't harm the horse. There is a specific height and slope requirement for the pad in relation to the individual horse's foot that can't be deviated from at all. When you take into consideration those things as well as the way in which the foot is trimmed and packed (the grooves in and around the frog are packed with a tar or leather based product like magic cushion to allow it to function unimpeded as a shock absorber), the foot and leg have no more stress placed on them than if the horse were standing flat on the ground. Most of these horses are still sound in their 20's and 30's long after their careers as show horses have ended, assuming they have not been subjected to the cruel practice of soring. We actually have a padded performance division for horses aged 15 and over.
> 
> It's what people do in addition to padding or in lieu of adequate training that crosses that line over into abuse. As with all breeds, we have our bad (well, rotten, really) apples and they can be very difficult to uncover even upon professional inspection. To demonstrate this difficulty, several horses that were initially seized in this case were inspected by an independent veterinarian selected by the government and were found to be in good condition. The video proves that abuse happened, but no physical traces of it can be found on the horses. This is complicated further by the fact that people are afforded quite a bit of constitutional protection against search of their property. I wish that there was a way to permit unannounced visitations of people suspected of seedy practices but as the laws stand today, that isn't possible. It's a very frustrating situation for everybody who actually wants to put an end to abuse in the Walking Horse world.


I find it difficult to believe that these horses stay as sound with those pads as they would without. When you change the angles so much, it just makes sense to me they would suffer more lameness than the same horse without all the pads. Even if it is hip joints from the angle and the pressure of the rider from an uphill ride. I just don't get it. I know there are evil people everywhere, in every discipline. I do not believe there are many as bad as this one, who call themselves professionals.


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

It does effect the twh world there's groups outthere promoting the breed natraly,its insainly expensive, mytwh is sspoild rotten
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TWHGirl (May 17, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> I find it difficult to believe that these horses stay as sound with those pads as they would without. When you change the angles so much, it just makes sense to me they would suffer more lameness than the same horse without all the pads. Even if it is hip joints from the angle and the pressure of the rider from an uphill ride. I just don't get it. I know there are evil people everywhere, in every discipline. I do not believe there are many as bad as this one, who call themselves professionals.



Well, I can only speak of my own experiences but I've yet to have soundness issues in any of my horses, one of which will be turning 25 come September. He was shown as a padded performance horse until the age of 16. He has now assumed the full time role of trail horse and pasture ornament.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I would say you are very fortunate.


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## TWHGirl (May 17, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> I would say you are very fortunate.


You have your opinion and I have mine.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I think TWH have been bred for years to not only be VERY tractable (they have to be to put up with that crap) .. but also extremely hardy and sound.

The one's that stay sound and sane long enough to breed, were bred, thus producing this very strong, very willing horse.

Sad really .. two wonderful qualities in this breed born mainly out of enduring generations of abuse..

imo.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Unfortantely this sort of thing isn't just in TWH (I've heard horror stories about Halter Arabians) and I only hope that this will help be a step in the right direction. 
Makes me wonder about the people who send their horses to these trainers and PAY for this to happen.

I'm glad I can say that I would never be one of those trainers.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

One more article - Horse Training Abuse Case Gains Momentum as PepsiCo Pulls Support from Shows « Straight from the Horse's Heart

Both Pepsi and Ford dropped thier sponsorship. 
Be interesting to see what happens now in their financial department.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

themacpack said:


> I remember a couple of years ago reading the articles about the increased scrutiny/inspections at shows where when the inspectors would show up there would be all sorts of exhibitors that would just pack up and leave to avoid being inspected -- yeah, nothing says, "Nothing to see here" like everyone running away.......


They should let everyone arrive and close all exits and force them to stay on the show grounds, then do inspections.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

god that makes what goes on over here look positivly pleasent.
At least over here it is only temporary and dont permanantly injure the horse. 
.the worst I have heard of over here is depriving a horse of water for 24hrs before a height measurement or lunging the horse for hours before a class.

they used to Sore the welsh cobs but that has stopped now as the WPCS came down hard on it.

I hate the TWH shows. they look so horrificly unnatural, more like freaks then the beautiful animals that they are and you would be hard pushed to find anyone in the UK who did like it or wanted to bring them over here!

I'm a member on a showing forum for the UK and this video has started a thread on there and has caused general outrage and disgust.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

To TWHGirl... I am curious as to why you in padded shoes? Is it more money or is it the look you like? I'm not trying to bash padded shoes, I'm just trying to understand the motivation to show like that as it seems very taxing on the horse.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

As horrible as it all is I have to say that I am glad that they not only are trying to take care of the problem but recognize that it is only "what some will do to win" and that not all competitors are that vile. The fact that those horses are having to go through such things is horrible and unfortunately it shines a glaring light on the ENTIRE horse world. Such people are NOT, in my book, horse trainers. They do not learn to trust the horse or let the horse trust them. I know lots of horses that can be trained to do the same thing without soring or chaining. One thing this investigation left out is that not only do they damage the horse for the gait but often they will brake the tail up so that is can get raised higher and look more 'regal'.

imho there is no reason to make a horse look a certain way for a competition he point is what is natural. This kind of treatment is not limited to trying to get TWH to lift their feet is is in trainers that hollow a horses back and whips him into a gallop to give them a 'closed carriage' for dressage before they are fully developed and jumpers who drug a horse up so it cant feel the fractured bone in its leg while trying to clear a course and the western rider that uses 3inch spurs cinches the horses head down and you a twisted wire bit to get them to look prettier. I have witnessed all of these thing happen and it makes us all look bad but we have to know that if we do not believe in it that there are other out there who dont either. I have pulled people of their horses for such things and if I were to act like that with my horse (which I hope that I NEVER do) I would want someone to yank me down and put me back to straights.

Unfortunately people are only in it for the money and not the love of being able to do something with a great horse, win or lose. 

good luck and happy homes to the horses who were seized.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

One more video - again, not really for the slight of heart.


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

texasgal said:


> I think TWH have been bred for years to not only be VERY tractable (they have to be to put up with that crap) .. but also extremely hardy and sound.
> 
> The one's that stay sound and sane long enough to breed, were bred, thus producing this very strong, very willing horse.
> 
> ...


Eh, that's exactaly what I have been told, hardy and sound, that they are. But idont have to abuse my horse (nor does anyone else) he natraly gaits I may teach him to rack but he's not getting shoes of any kind unless he needs them. And I'm not going to hurt him  well promote natral tallent!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TWHGirl (May 17, 2012)

gigem88 said:


> To TWHGirl... I am curious as to why you in padded shoes? Is it more money or is it the look you like? I'm not trying to bash padded shoes, I'm just trying to understand the motivation to show like that as it seems very taxing on the horse.


It's just a different division. Some horses do well barefoot, some do well in park shoes, some do better padded, some excel in all divisions. It's kind of like how Arabians and Saddlebreds have the different shoes. I don't do this for the money (if I tried to making a living off showing, I'd be bankrupt in a minute), just for the love of horses. However, I'll be the first to admit that the padded division has been taken over by people who think they can put 10 foot platforms on a mediocre horse who paces like a camel and get a grand champion out of it...and it works, unfortunately. 

I'll be honest. I don't win a lot of ribbons. I don't really care. I'm not willing to sacrifice my dignity and the health of my horses for it and if that means that I come home empty handed, then so be it. I hope for a day when the honest people in this industry can compete on a fair, humane playing field where horses aren't expected to rip their shoulders out of the sockets to win. Until the crooked judges, board members, and trainers get thrown to the curb, it's a futile wish.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Sorry, can't watch that, too upsetting for me. I really hope that was sensationalized and a rarity, not the norm. One thing I will say though, and this is just my opinion, the people riding those big lick horses, look hunched over, evil and reminds me of a child molester. Sorry, but it's what pops in my head immediately.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

TWHGirl said:


> It's just a different division. Some horses do well barefoot, some do well in park shoes, some do better padded, some excel in all divisions. It's kind of like how Arabians and Saddlebreds have the different shoes. I don't do this for the money (if I tried to making a living off showing, I'd be bankrupt in a minute), just for the love of horses. However, I'll be the first to admit that the padded division has been taken over by people who think they can put 10 foot platforms on a mediocre horse who paces like a camel and get a grand champion out of it...and it works, unfortunately.
> 
> I'll be honest. I don't win a lot of ribbons. I don't really care. I'm not willing to sacrifice my dignity and the health of my horses for it and if that means that I come home empty handed, then so be it. I hope for a day when the honest people in this industry can compete on a fair, humane playing field where horses aren't expected to rip their shoulders out of the sockets to win. Until the crooked judges, board members, and trainers get thrown to the curb, it's a futile wish.


Thanks for the insight!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Nuala said:


> As horrible as it all is I have to say that I am glad that they not only are trying to take care of the problem but recognize that it is only "what some will do to win" and that not all competitors are that vile. The fact that those horses are having to go through such things is horrible and unfortunately it shines a glaring light on the ENTIRE horse world. Such people are NOT, in my book, horse trainers. They do not learn to trust the horse or let the horse trust them. I know lots of horses that can be trained to do the same thing without soring or chaining. One thing this investigation left out is that not only do they damage the horse for the gait but often they will brake the tail up so that is can get raised higher and look more 'regal'.
> 
> imho there is no reason to make a horse look a certain way for a competition he point is what is natural. This kind of treatment is not limited to trying to get TWH to lift their feet is is in trainers that hollow a horses back and whips him into a gallop to give them a 'closed carriage' for dressage before they are fully developed and jumpers who drug a horse up so it cant feel the fractured bone in its leg while trying to clear a course and the western rider that uses 3inch spurs cinches the horses head down and you a twisted wire bit to get them to look prettier. I have witnessed all of these thing happen and it makes us all look bad but we have to know that if we do not believe in it that there are other out there who dont either. I have pulled people of their horses for such things and if I were to act like that with my horse (which I hope that I NEVER do) I would want someone to yank me down and put me back to straights.
> 
> ...


Nuala-unfortunately one of the reports that I saw this past week said that at one show they tested 52 of the competitors and ALL 52 tested positive for soring compounds. That, coupled with the fact that this week, here in NY was the breeders show and NOT ONE showed up, truly makes me wonder. I would love to know if it has had that effect in other areas. 

I have a friend who has trained TWH for years. He also happens to be an NH person. His stallion has won many times, and not through these methods. The issue he has had though is being extremely careful who he has bred to (he no longer does) and who he sells to. At this point, he primarily rescues and retrains. He was very glad to see this come out-it is decades overdue.


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## CarmenL (Apr 20, 2012)

I've noticed it seems to be men involved in this ghastly business??! I've never come across this cruelty before and it is quite upsetting! It seems to me that there is not a strong enough response from the shows that feature this breed. A ban for life would quickly change this behavior! Hit em where it hurts, in there wallet!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

You can't stop this by going after the individuals. That is like stopping a swarm of bees one bee at a time. The root problem remains - to win, you need to make a horse move in a completely false manner. It seems to me you have to ban the use of the equipment used, and require 100% vet checks of EVERY horse, EVERY show. It might require a legal ban on 'big lick', just like we ban cock fights.

The video below was made by a supporter of this form of competition. It turns my stomach to see horses used this way. Beetle-like humans, hunched on the horse while the horse does something freakishly unnatural...it says something very repulsive about human beings.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I dont often aree with BSMS but in this instance I couldnt have said it better myself


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

Beetle like humans... Yes its pretty revolting to watch, if you're a normal, sane person... To me it always looks like vultures sitting on their terrified prey...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"...vultures sitting on their terrified prey..."

That is a better description! Gargoyles, not humans.


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