# Taming a wild, fearful horse



## Wings27 (Jan 28, 2015)

I recently took on a mare whose owners were unable to work with her. They'd had her for a year, trying on-and-off to gentle her. She was pulled from a privately owned herd of paints after never seeing a human for the first 7 years of her life; at the time she was pregnant and had a yearling, and both babies are now doing very well; the yearling is now rideable and in light roping training. Having produced these level-headed colts you would think she might be one of the easier ones. She is in fact the most difficult wild horse I have worked with. 
I can free lunge her, consistently change directions, and she stops on command. Once she stops I can go stand within about two feet of her shoulder, face away, and she will reach out and sniff but never gets close. The second you make a move near her that isn't very slow and deliberate, even an innocent twitch to shake off a fly, she is off again. And the most frustrating thing is that I'll think she's making progress one day but then it's two steps back the next. I've tried herding her into a stall and gentling her that way but it's the exact same thing. I'm starting to think maybe I should just get a good foal out of her since she seems to produce such nice ones, and then send her to live in another herd for the rest of her life. I've had mustangs so much easier than her and it's difficult to justify spending the money to feed a horse that you're getting nothing out of. 
I'm hoping someone will have some tips for this seemingly-untameable mare, because I'm out of ideas. I cannot see her ever even becoming halter-broke at this rate.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, you can give up on her, or you have to give her a crash course, in order to make some headway. She has had along time to get used of doing her own thing, being un handled
Do you have a safe stall?
I mean one with walls and a commercial stall front, and not some improvised stall she can jump out of.
If so, I would treat her the same as I have, when halter breaking un handled 9 month old weanlings , and one tow year old, that I bought
That means getting hre int hat stall, getting a rope on her, and then a halter. I would then leave a drag rope on that halter, allowing you to pick up the end, several times a day, and start teaching her to give to pressure-sideways at first, as you can un track them much better that way
Pick up that rope at feeding time, and run it through your hand, so you can stand next to her, and start to touch her. If she is too reactive, then use a lunge whip with a cloth on the end, and get her used to having it run over her body, while staying a safe distance away
If the stall is too small for that, wait until you have her leading well enough to get her into the round pen


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sounds like you are waiting for her to decide to come to you. Which is great, if she has a reason to come to you. She is perfectly happy not to.

I like Smilie's method. Use the same mindset you have but YOU need to take charge.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Do you mean that in all this time, no one has ever put a halter on her and she has not been forced to accept anything? We have handled horses up to 16 years old that have been untouched. All have been leading and have had some basic handling within a week. If you are waiting for her to 'get' gentle, it is not going to happen. She will have to be roped or run up in a chute. 

Tell me exactly what has been done with her since she changed hands. Has she even been dewormed or had any health care? How big a place does she live in? We need some more information.


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## Wings27 (Jan 28, 2015)

I have had her for almost a month. She has been dewormed via pellets in her grain and her feet are breaking off perfectly. She is in a pasture approximately 1/4 or 1/5 of an acre while my other horse has the remaining 3 acres to herself. Maybe the horses I've gentled have just been ones I got lucky with, because they've all come around without roping or squeeze-chute haltering; although there is definitely a chance that she was set back by methods that the previous owners used, since I do not know them personally and I don't know what they've done. She is especially reactive and I wonder if she would hurt herself reacting to sudden restraint. I suppose the risk may be worth the reward, though.


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## Ryiio (Jun 1, 2015)

I worked with Dynamite, the _pony_, who was a 'pasture pet'. She had no handling, despite being twelve years of age. 

I started by trapping her into a 12x12 stall. I put a halter on her and just sat with her for a few hours a day. As she became comfortable, I started the grooming process. Once she realized grooming wasn't going to hurt her, she was in love. I, then, tried to comb with her messed-up forelock. I, although not surprised, found out she was head shy. I held down her head and rubbed her ears for a few seconds. I did this a few times a day. She dropped her head and fell asleep. She was too small to be ridden, and I haven't worked with an unbroken _horse_ before. Although to small to be ridden, I did get a saddle pad and a small saddle on - no bridle, however.


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## Wings27 (Jan 28, 2015)

Was haltering her easy? My mare will literally jump over you if you get to close in the 12x12. I consider myself as close to fearless as you can get with horses but that's just asking for it.


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## rocky pony (Oct 5, 2007)

Sounds like a really good candidate to be roped to me. Personally I'm a big fan of Chris Cox and I like how he halter breaks horses. I've seen him do it with unhandled horses of all ages as well as teaching others to do it. He ropes them and works with them until they calm down and accept and then he can move to the halter. If you get RFD-TV you can catch his show sometimes and might get a glimpse of that method. Someone who's done it themself could probably explain it better than I.

Interested to see how things progress with her. I don't think she's hopeless, she just needs to be made to deal with some things.


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## Ryiio (Jun 1, 2015)

Wings27 said:


> Was haltering her easy? My mare will literally jump over you if you get to close in the 12x12. I consider myself as close to fearless as you can get with horses but that's just asking for it.


 You cannot show your fear. The horse can sense it and, therefore, accept the fear and outwardly show that fear to you. Be confident.

No. Haltering wasn't too bad, despite being so head shy. The pony was to small to jump over me. :wink:


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

In the Road to the Horse colt starting contest, it's not unusual for one of the horses to be unwilling to accept handling within the limited time. Typically then the contestant will rope the colt in the round pen and start teaching yield to pressure. They do that, as Smilie describes, by keeping at her side and pulling her sideways. I've seen the same thing done by Mustang Makeover contestants, in some cases working with multiple horses, where some would gentle and one would not. You might want to view some video of either event to get a better idea.

If you are at the place where you are considering giving up on her, you don't have a lot to lose by using a rope. If you do it right she won't be any more traumatized than she is already.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

Sorry but putting a scared horse in a stall, and wrestling with it with ropes does not sound like a good idea, it sounds like a wreck in the making.

Since negative reinforcement is not working, I recommend changing your tactics, negative reinforcement does not always work. Start using positive reinforcement. 

To start getting her to come to you start with hay, walk out to where ever she is and as soon as looks at you click with your tongue, toss the hay to her, back up and let her eat it. The repeat the process it will not take long for her to figure out he the game. She looks at you, you click, you reinforce with the hay. Once she gets that then wait a minute to see if she takes a step towards you when she does, click, reinforce. You keep moving away from her, and she will start coming towards you. Reinforce her for coming towards you, get her coming towards you by moving away from her with something she wants.

Now if there is to much grass in the field and hay is not reinforcing enough then you can use grain, or anything that has value to her. Take three or four buckets and use the buckets, putting just few bits of grain in them at a time. So you would basically do the same thing. Except instead of tossing hay you would put the bucket down, back up and let her eat. Then when you move put the next bucket down, and if you move in kind of a circle you will be able to keep moving buckets as you go around.

If she ignores you, take the food and leave. But stop feeding her for free, only let her have the pellets when she interacting with you. A look, a step, a shift in weight towards you, look for anything positive and reinforce it. Don't bribe her. In other words don't hold the food out. Let her look at you then reinforce the behavior. The click is the bridge, then the food. Once she gets used to hearing the click and then getting the reward everything else gets easier.

There are videos on youtube with positive reinforcement that you can watch as well.

I have been working with a wonderful trainer who only uses positive reinforcement since last July. And my background is very much negative reinforcement, I was a die hard, pressure and release trainer. I have a mustang that I had gentled and had for over year, and she still had no draw. After one session with the trainer I was sold. This mare would reluctantly let me catch her and halter her, and I could saddle her, and work with her but she had no draw and seemed miserable. After one day working with the trainer my mare was walking up to me and putting her head in the halter, it has only gotten better from there. Second example of +R we recently took in a mustang gelding that has been abused and used in illegal rodeos his whole life, he is 16. When he came we could not get near him and he was terrified, always waiting to be chased. We started using +R with him and within two weeks the trainer had him haltering, leading, and coming up to her. It took more time for him to come up to other people, and he is still superstitious around gates, but he has made huge improvements, and most importantly he is not scared that we are going to chase him. Then back in January we adopted another mustang, who we have only used +R with. He halters himself(drops his head into the halter), leads, picks up all four feet, loads in the trailer, moves over to us to saddle him, ties, fly spray, targets his entire body, goes through obstacles. All accomplished using +R. So I have seen it work, I have used it and I think it would be perfect in your situation.

In a nutshell stop giving her free food, don't dump the bucket and leave, have her earn it. And stop chasing her, get her to chase you. I have compared positive reinforcement to watching paint dry, there is no drama, no excitement, but you get results. 

Best of luck.


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## Ryiio (Jun 1, 2015)

gssw5 said:


> Sorry but putting a scared horse in a stall, and wrestling with it with ropes does not sound like a good idea, it sounds like a wreck in the making.
> 
> Since negative reinforcement is not working, I recommend changing your tactics, negative reinforcement does not always work. Start using positive reinforcement.
> 
> ...


I guess it depends on what works. I tried doing this with Dynamite, but she was still to scared. I tried this for a month before trapping her in a stall. I tried several hours a day. I didn't want to, but she was not really co-operating. I just stood there, and she ran around like a chicken with its head cut off.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

gssw5 said:


> I recommend changing your tactics. Start using positive reinforcement.


Yes, that's another approach, and you might be more comfortable with it. I saw a mustang that had put several people in the hospital being retrained with clicker training, and the results were very impressive.

You can search for Shawna Karrasch and find video. If you want to go that route I'd suggest you do some real study. You don't want to go from a horse you can't get near to one that's knocking you over for treats.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Many of the ones we have roped or put in a chute would hunt the other end of the rope and attack when you first tried to halter them. The 'fight or flight' instinct definitely turned into fight when they thought they were cornered. But this was short-lived. As soon as you let them out in a small pen with a halter and long lead-rope, they respond very quickly to 'pressure and release' on the lead-rope. They usually are very easy to halter-break.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

Ryiio said:


> I guess it depends on what works. I tried doing this with Dynamite, but she was still to scared. I tried this for a month before trapping her in a stall. I tried several hours a day. I didn't want to, but she was not really co-operating. I just stood there, and she ran around like a chicken with its head cut off.


If it did not work you were probably not doing something right.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

Joel Reiter said:


> Yes, that's another approach, and you might be more comfortable with it. I saw a mustang that had put several people in the hospital being retrained with clicker training, and the results were very impressive.
> 
> You can search for Shawna Karrasch and find video. If you want to go that route I'd suggest you do some real study. You don't want to go from a horse you can't get near to one that's knocking you over for treats.


Provided a horse goes from scared to death, to knocking you over for food at least they are not scared anymore, and then you teach food manners. None of my horses are muggy, they don't bite, or push us around, we have taught them food manners.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi & welcome, 

I see Cherie, Smilie, Joel et al are here, so while I have a slightly different approach, likely most things I'd say have been said. But I got stuck on...



Wings27 said:


> yearling is now rideable and in light roping training.


WTH is someone riding a yearling at all for, let alone roping training already??? Poor, poor baby!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

...And then I couldn't help but read the whole thread... after reading the first line of gssw's post on this page. 

Positive reinforcement is the primary line I'd be focussing on, but if you could do it in a not so confrontational way(like roping the horse for eg), I'd also be wanting to get a rope around her neck asap. Using a long rope & having her in a small area(roundpen for eg) will then allow you to get her used to ropes and yielding to the pressure of them, without coming up against hard pressure or escaping it.

And I too STRONGLY advise against doing anything of the sort such as attempting to trap a horse in a small enclosure and then going in there with it & wrestling a rope onto it! Really good way of getting deaded, or at least seriously injured & further terrifying the horse, even with a small one. Sounds like you were lucky that time Ryio.


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## OoLaurenoO (Sep 23, 2014)

I think the yearling is now a two year old? I have a mare very similar to this girl. Tried R+ but there was nothing she wanted more then she wanted to stay the hell away from humans and eat grass. I ended up getting a great trainer to help me and we roped her and made her face her fear. The difference is amazing. I'm not opposed to R+ and think this mare could now be a candidate for that style of training but back before we really got hold of her and showed her it wasn't anything to worry about no way. The threads in the breeding section titled 'Help' if you're interested. It's pretty long so you might want to skip to the last few pages which is more of the training stuff.


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## Wings27 (Jan 28, 2015)

Wow, thanks for all the feedback everyone. 
To clear that up, yes, the yearling is now a little over 2. They are light riding, nothing strenuous! Just enough to know that he's a really well-tempered horse and takes to new things quickly. 
I would also like to clarify that I am not fearful around horses, I've been training since I was in my early teens and am very comfortable with them. Fear is not a problem, but I have a sense of self preservation and locking her in a stall and just walking right up to her is absolutely a recipe for disaster. She goes out of her mind when she is even touched with a stick and string. 
Positive reinforcement is what I've been doing the majority of the time but it just isn't working with her. I wish it was effective but she does not progress using this method. It sounds to me judging from the replies that roping is the best solution for her at this point, I was on the fence about it but you've all convinced me that I won't be doing something terribly wrong. 
If anyone has anything else to add I would love to hear your opinions on her. I sincerely appreciate everyone's help so far.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

You live in the west, so I know there are rodeo arenas and fair grounds with rodeo pens and chutes somewhere near you. The last ones we took in were hauled in a stock trailer to the rodeo arena, unloaded behind the chutes and herded through the pens to the bucking chutes. They are solid so their legs and feet cannot get through them and sturdy enough to hold 2000# bulls. They have a walking plank on the back-side of them to rig up the bucking stock, so they are very convenient to handle a wild horse from. [They are very similar to the chutes used at the mustang pens in Pauls Valley.] 

You can put any size wild horse in these chutes and safely handle it, get a halter on it and just stand above it and pet and rub on it until it calms down. It takes about 10 minutes to put a completely wild horse in there, halter it and have it ready to haul home plus how ever much time you want to spend rubbing on it. 

You leave a halter on it and let it drag a 5/8 or 3/4 inch nylon rope that is about 15 feet long. You re-load them like cattle. Just herd them into a stock trailer parked in a gate. You handle them just like you would any other livestock until you get them gentled and mannered. They handle that way quite well. It just takes a different approach. They train this way and turn out just as gentle as a horse handled from birth. In a lot of ways, they are easier to train than the gentle horses and I would much rather train one than a 'pocket pony pet'. I have horses here right now that are 'kid-broke', safe, gentle trail horses that started out that wild.


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