# Jumping with Martingales



## GallopGirl9324 (Jul 27, 2015)

So, I've been riding about three years, and I am just getting into jumping. I've been jumping for about five months, and I am starting to look into tack for leasing a horse. I want a martingale for jumping, but I have no clue what type to get. I want to do mainly show jumping and some cross country. What kind of martingale do I get?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Why do you want a martingale? What purpose will it serve? Answer those questions and we'll better be able to answer what type or if you even need one.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

The only martingales allowed in a jumper class is a running one (which should be properly fitted--lifted up it is the height of the point of the hip), and it is often used as a pulley rein when the horse is too high. So the question is why the horse is too high? What about the development of methodical skills (of the rider) and basics (i.e. trotting caveletti to Xs) for the horse.

A standing martingale is the only allowed o.f. for hunters is really something that is problematic. IF they are long enough to allow bascule/over the fence they are too long to prevent a too high posture; if they are short enough to prevent head tossing they are too short to allow proper bascule. Imho this is much more problematic than a running one, but both are unnecessary.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Though the above is true, it's fairly common to see standing martingales (over running, I've found--but that may just be a bias from riding primarily Hunters) at home for hacking/schooling/lessoning/what have you.

I, too, would raise the question of what your goal is in adding a martingale.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I have no use for a standing martingale in jumping, if they're tight enough to make a difference they're too tight and will restrict the horses action and ability to get itself out of trouble if it needs too
If you watch show jumping and cross country at top level you'll see that the majority of horses are ridden in a running martingale or a breastplate with running martingale attachment.
They aren't there because the riders are awful or because the horses are badly trained they're there as a safety net because things can go wrong even with the best


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Not bashing anybody at that lever, But, their horses need to perform and pay for their farms, and they cannot take time out to reschool an aggressive jumper. There isn't any riding MORE FORWARD that a Jumper, with the exception of a racehorse. I agree that the running martingale gives them more control, but it is risky. ANY TIME you put more leather in front of a horse's legs, you risk it breaking and your horse can get a foot caught and stumble. This is even possible with a breastplate when it's just adjusted poorly, like this:
breastplate2.jpg Photo by ejc_pix | Photobucket
This should be tightened between the front legs and two holes higher to the pommel.
This is correct:
https://taylormadetoo.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/breastplate-hunter-pic.jpg
You can have a horse that tucks really well, and gets a hoof stuck if it hangs down. 
The result is that your good jumper flips over, on you, because the hanging leather on the breastplate or standing or running martingale gets caught.
The Intl riders use a running martingale as security brakes because their horses don't always listen to the bit.
YOUR horse should listen to the bit and listen to you.
Dump the martingale.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If anyone can ride and get a horse around a course better or as well as the likes of Beezie Madden, William Fox Pitt, Michael Jung, Laura Kraut (who I watched out jump what looked to be an unbeatable time a few weeks back on a horse that remained cool and collected throughout), Mclain Ward and Scott Brash to name just a few who all use running martingales and compete over courses that a poorly trained horse would never be able to do then I'll consider their opinion


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Running martingales are all you are allowed to use in eventing. Standing martingales are illegal and you WILL be disqualified if you try to use one. Why? if a horse falls in water, they are unable to lift their heads and they might drown. While they are allowed on the hunt field and you do see them, I will never use one there.....for that reason.

Sadly, in hunters, the standing is more for decoration than function....much like the flash noseband is in the lower levels of dressage. And, you NEVER see them adjusted properly.

My credo? Don't use a piece of corrective equipment unless your horse needs correction. That said, I often use running martingales on XC. They can help get control if the ka ka hits the fan. But, I make sure they are adjusted PROPERLY, and not as short as you often see them (incorrectly) used.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

jaydee said:


> I have no use for a standing martingale in jumping, if they're tight enough to make a difference they're too tight and will restrict the horses action and ability to get itself out of trouble if it needs too
> If you watch show jumping and cross country at top level you'll see that the majority of horses are ridden in a running martingale or a breastplate with running martingale attachment.
> They aren't there because the riders are awful or because the horses are badly trained they're there as a safety net because things can go wrong even with the best
> 2012 Rolex Kentucky Three Day Event: Cross Country - YouTube
> ...



IMHO neither horse needs a martingale but the second one needs more schooling, so does its rider.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> IMHO neither horse needs a martingale but the second one needs more schooling, so does its rider.


Needs schooling? Beezie needs lessons??? LOL! In what way?

I would suggest you have never ridden jumpers at near that level. I have, and find this horse going very well. These are NOT hunters!!

At least the running martingale is correctly adjusted.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> IMHO neither horse needs a martingale but the second one needs more schooling, so does its rider.


Yep, the reigning Horse of the Year and Equestrian of the Year need schooling. LOL!


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Running martingales are the only legal ones for stadium/eventing/dressage warm ups, all others are illegal.


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## BearPony (Jan 9, 2013)

Hold off on buying any kind of martingale until you find out if the horse would benefit from one. I've ridden horses with martingales in the past and will do so again in the future I'm sure but don't see the point in adding the extra tack if the horse doesn't need or benefit from it.

Only runnings are allowed in eventing. As others have mentioned a standing will get you disqualified. 

One piece of tack you could get ahead of time is a good neck/grab strap. I prefer to just use an old stirrup leather or rein around the neck, but you can get fancy colorful ones too. I'm a competent rider but often still ride with one especially on green horses or out hunting, riding cross country as do many riders who are far better than I will probably ever be!


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## budley95 (Aug 15, 2014)

GallopGirl9324 said:


> So, I've been riding about three years, and I am just getting into jumping. I've been jumping for about five months, and I am starting to look into tack for leasing a horse. I want a martingale for jumping, but I have no clue what type to get. I want to do mainly show jumping and some cross country. What kind of martingale do I get?


Maybe I'm wrong here but surely if you're leasing a horse tack comes with it, and as an owner I'd go mad if a loaner changed the tack on my horse. Or is that just a UK thing? Maybe a running martingale IF you find the horse needs it, but just starting out jumping you may find it unnecessary. Normally as you get on to more hot headed horses, jumping bigger tracks they become beneficial, or wait for your instructor to tell you what you need, if you need one? I use a running martingale for larger tracks and xc as my boy can get a bit excited and practically stick his ears up my nose!

If it's so you have something to hold onto, an old stirrup leather round the neck as a neck strap may be better for you. I wouldn't worry about tack too much right now though, the most important thing with starting out jumping is to enjoy it! Have fun


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I'll bet most of the jumpers and eventers out there don't really need martingales. I think they're just a fashion trend, like ear bonnets. It's either that or _everybody_ is taking shortcuts on their horse's training.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Tradition more than fashion since they're not a new thing ponyboy


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

The only eventer that rarely had a martingale on her horses was Lucinda Green nee Prior Palmer


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

jaydee said:


> Tradition more than fashion since they're not a new thing ponyboy


When I learned to ride martingales were frowned upon.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> When I learned to ride martingales were frowned upon.


That might be so. None of the horses or ponies I learned to ride had martingales unless they were competing jumping and needed one. 


A correctly fitted running martingale has no affect unless the horse raises its head.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> When I learned to ride martingales were frowned upon.


I've never heard of then being frowned upon - but then I'm British and older so was educated in horsey things in perhaps a different environment.
As Foxhunter already said, a correctly fitted martingale does nothing at all to affect the way a horse performs unless it does something that brings the action into play but you wouldn't put one on a horse unless you thought there was a chance you might need it - its just extra tack to buy and clean - but having one on isn't going to alter the way a horse goes - it isn't a training aid in the way Training forks, draw reins or a German martingale (Market Harborough) and that type of thing are
I think they were first used many years ago to prevent human head injuries caused by horses throwing their heads around to shake off flies
They've long been considered part of the traditional hunting tack in the UK


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> When I learned to ride martingales were frowned upon.


Not sure what instruction you got, but many of my event horses had one on. As said, correctly adjusted ones have no interference, and they can really help get a horse out of trouble when the ka ka hits the fan.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Its always great to go a clear round. 

If that was a video of me I would never hear the end of the fact the horse has his mouth open most the way round. However, my comment does come across a bit harsher than I intended.

Yes, I have ridden jumpers at this level, some time ago now. The martingale is correctly adjusted, I still think that horse doesn't particularly need it, but it does no harm.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'd also agree with only getting a martingale if the horse needs it. On the same note, I wouldn't be getting any tack for a horse I didn't already have. You'll avoid a whole world of frustration by making sure all of your tack fits the horse you're riding. You may also find that the owner of the lease horse has tack that you can (or are required) to use.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Foxhunter said:


> A correctly fitted running martingale has no affect unless the horse raises its head.


But why is the horse raising its head? Either the horse is nervous, doesn't have the musculature to do what he's being asked, or the rider is being too hard with their hands. I have seen _many_ jumpers in just that situation.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Some horses that are perfectly well schooled on the flat, get excited when they are jumping and think they know better than the rider and try to get to the fence quicker and when the rider checks them, they chuck their head up. 

If you watch this video you will see the horse sometimes wanting to take charge and when the rider asks him, without harsh hands, to come back, the horse raises his head so th martingale comes into affect.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ponyboy - To understand I think you have to have first hand experience of the types horses that are super fit, have to 'attack' the fences and also have that slightly aggressive side to their character that makes them so brilliant at what they do.
To jump at any level successfully a horse has to want to do it and the more it wants to do the more likely it is to try and take control of the situation whenever it thinks it has a chance


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> IMHO neither horse needs a martingale but the second one needs more schooling, so does its rider.


I see a horse who is great at its job and loves what it's doing. As well as a rider that we should all strive to ride like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> Some horses that are perfectly well schooled on the flat, get excited when they are jumping and think they know better than the rider and try to get to the fence quicker and when the rider checks them, they chuck their head up.
> 
> If you watch this video you will see the horse sometimes wanting to take charge and when the rider asks him, without harsh hands, to come back, the horse raises his head so th martingale comes into affect.
> 
> http://youtu.be/X0JZ0oTJzjA


You are quite right of course. We want our horses to enjoy their work and they can get a bit bossy!!

Love the example you put up. Great to watch - and congratulation to the course-builder, what a terrific course.

It is too easy to be pedantic sitting in front of a video, to things that wouldn't be noticed live. And we are never perfect ourselves no matter how hard we try.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

jaydee said:


> ponyboy - To understand I think you have to have first hand experience of the types horses that are super fit, have to 'attack' the fences and also have that slightly aggressive side to their character that makes them so brilliant at what they do.


I'm not basing this on my opinion but what my instructor (and many books) have said. Horses often hollow out and rush their fences because they are afraid or unfit... they don't really have the power to jump the fence, so they overcompensate with extra speed and aggression. I believe Hickstead was just aggressive but obviously not all horses are like him. It just isn't logical that _every_ jumper out there is a head tosser and would do it no matter what. Watch the horses who jump in a rounder frame - they never toss or shake their heads.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Hickstead Derby is one of the toughest show jumping courses in the world.

It has been running since 1960 and in the 55 years there has only been 57 clears. The course never changes, the fences are all in the same position, same height and width and jumped in the same order.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm suspect of former high level show jumpers that don't recognize or know the name Hickstead . . .

Horses at this high of a level are certainly fit enough, and it's ludicrous to think otherwise. They're not just grabbed out of the field. Just _look_ at them.

Maybe at the lower levels.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*Martingales.*

Running martingale is you standard everyday martingale.
There is the bib martingale for horse raceing the same as the running martingale.
And the Irish martingale a horizontal small leather strap with 2 rein rings.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> I'm not basing this on my opinion but what my instructor (and many books) have said. Horses often hollow out and rush their fences because they are afraid or unfit... they don't really have the power to jump the fence, so they overcompensate with extra speed and aggression. I believe Hickstead was just aggressive but obviously not all horses are like him. It just isn't logical that _every_ jumper out there is a head tosser and would do it no matter what. Watch the horses who jump in a rounder frame - they never toss or shake their heads.


You aren't going to get an unfit or fearful horse even a quarter of the way around these top level courses and no, not all horses will try to fight you
George Morris made a comment in a magazine he does an article in about whips and spurs in show jumping classes - be believes that they should always be carried/worn not because you need them but because you MIGHT need them and I tend to regard a running martingale in the same way. If you don't need it it will just sit there and do nothing but if do need its there.


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## GallopGirl9324 (Jul 27, 2015)

Wow! So, update. 

I have gained so much knowledge over the last few months. I now own a horse! But, thank you to everybody who helped me out


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

jaydee said:


> I tend to regard a running martingale in the same way. If you don't need it it will just sit there and do nothing but if do need its there.


I know it's an old thread but this is worth repeating, a PROPERLY adjusted running martingale will sit there doing nothing until it is needed, of all the gadgets it is probably my 'favorite' comes into play when the head goes way up, but until then just sits there.


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

The last thing I want to do is get in a debate over this, so please just take this with a grain of salt - IMHO, martingales serve little to no purpose, ever. I personally will never use them on my horses. I see way too many "trainers" slapping them on every horse, including their client's horses, for BS reasons. 

OP, why do you want one? What purpose will it serve you? I'm curious why you feel like you need one. If you do not have a real concrete reason for using one, you have no business using one. Also, if you are leasing a horse, it is not up to you at all what tack you do or don't use, that is always up to the owner.

edit: wow just realized this is old haha! :lol:


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

beverleyy said:


> The last thing I want to do is get in a debate over this, so please just take this with a grain of salt - IMHO, martingales serve little to no purpose, ever. I personally will never use them on my horses. I see way too many "trainers" slapping them on every horse, including their client's horses, for BS reasons.
> 
> OP, why do you want one? What purpose will it serve you? I'm curious why you feel like you need one. If you do not have a real concrete reason for using one, you have no business using one. Also, if you are leasing a horse, it is not up to you at all what tack you do or don't use, that is always up to the owner.
> 
> edit: wow just realized this is old haha! :lol:


 My feelings also, coming from a western background, and not from a jumping one
For the disciplines I ride/train in, a running martingale is a crutch
I have 'weaned' myself from them, years ago!


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

beverleyy said:


> . . . Also, if you are leasing a horse, it is not up to you at all what tack you do or don't use, that is always up to the owner.


I don't agree with that. When you first get the horse the owner may have strong feelings about something (ie no gag bits) which it is reasonable to take into account, but then when you get the horse home you have to use the gear that works for you as well as the horse.

From what I have read here it is common to get the horses tack when you lease a horse, but i think it is less common here. 

People just don't look after your stuff so I won't be handing over my good saddle any time soon and when they haven't had to pay for that bridle its too bad when the horse breaks the reins because they were stupid enough to tie the horse with them. 

When I have had use of/ lease of a horse I have always used my own gear. For example if the owner used a kimblewick on her horse, I don't like kimblewicks so I would start off in a snaffle. I'm not running to the owner every five minutes for permissions for everything. 

For that matter, there are not too many people I would hand my horse over to anyway. My sister yes. And there may be a handful of others. If I think hard about it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Smilie said:


> My feelings also, coming from a western background, and not from a jumping one
> For the disciplines I ride/train in, a running martingale is a crutch
> I have 'weaned' myself from them, years ago!


How on earth can a correctly fitted running martingale be a crutch?
It does absolutely nothing at all unless the horse has its head so high its close to flipping you in the face


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

jaydee said:


> How on earth can a correctly fitted running martingale be a crutch?
> It does absolutely nothing at all unless the horse has its head so high its close to flipping you in the face


Sorry, I did not see that the thread pertained to jumping, which I don't do, so my comments are in no way directed there.I watch the International show jumping at Spruce Meadows, and have great respect for those riders, so obviously a running martingale has application there.
My comment goes for general riding, performance events on the flat, and yes, i know it is adjusted so it only comes into play, when a horse raises his head to high,a nd in fact, used to use it when starting young horses years ago.
But, it still is a mild crutch in that case, relying on that martingale to keep the horse correct, versus learning that true feel, so you yourself keep that horse correct, using legs and hands with good feel and timing
AS I mentioned before, this mindset occurred when I took a reining/working cowhorse clinic, on a three year old, many years ago.
I arrived with my horse wearing a snaffle and running martingale
The instructor was Les Timmons, avery well known Alberta working cowhorse and reining trainer.
He asked as to why I had that running martingale on, to take it off and develop true feel.
Maybe using one to start a horse, for a few rides, is applicable at times, but i have seen people ride horses for years, and never get them out of that running martingale, riding out on trails, and yes, then it is a crutch,a s that horse has never really learned to stay correct. Certainly better then trail riding with a tie down
Also, I show where running martingales and other such devises can't be used, so it makes sense to train as you will need to show
You won't get that horse shown successfully, if while training, you have relied on it. Then it has been used as a crutch, that you need to give up when you enter that showring!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I clicked on the martingale topic, and missed the application-bottom line, so my comments had nothing to do with riding jumpers


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I always had a running martingale on all the horses I fox hunted. In the heat of a good run even the best trained horse (and I have hunted two Grand Prix horses) they can forget themselves, take a real hold and chuck their heads around. 

If they behave then it plays no part. 

It also gives a good safety strap to hang onto!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

They aren't allowed in British showing classes with the exception of Working Hunter or dressage but I would still use one on a young horse 'just in case' or on a horse that was a retraining/problem project
I'd rather have it there if I needed it than get my nose broken or teeth knocked out if anything did suddenly go wrong and it hit me in the face


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> I don't agree with that. When you first get the horse the owner may have strong feelings about something (ie no gag bits) which it is reasonable to take into account,* but then when you get the horse home you have to use the gear that works for you as well as the horse.
> *
> *From what I have read here it is common to get the horses tack when you lease a horse, but i think it is less common here.
> 
> ...


I understand every lease situation is different, however, I can't say I know anyone that would be pleased to know that leaser switched up tack just because owner wouldn't lend their tack and leaser didn't feel like getting tack the horse needed. I have lengthy experience leasing others horses (in the past) and now a good chunk of experience leasing my own horses out. Unless it is an on property part/full lease, I never ever send my tack or other misc. items off property. Leaser is fully expected to provide their own tack, as well as keep any horse I lease out in the tack they are already going in (ie: if my mare goes without a martingale, that leaser better not dare stick one on my horse. They also darn well better keep my horse in the bit she currently goes in, whether I provide them with hers or they need to go buy one.) No deal = no lease. I actually can't say I know anyone that _wouldn't_ put that stuff in contract?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Beverleyy - What do you think a running martingale is going to do to your horse that's so awful?
I'm curious to know how you think one would affect it


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

beverleyy said:


> The last thing I want to do is get in a debate over this, so please just take this with a grain of salt - IMHO, martingales serve little to no purpose, ever. I personally will never use them on my horses.


I find in horses it is best to never say never.
Is that you riding the bay horse in your barn in your profile? That horse most definitely has a martingale on in some of the flat and jumping pictures. Sure looks like a standing martingale to me.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

beverleyy said:


> Leaser is fully expected to provide their own tack, as well as keep any horse I lease out in the tack they are already going in (ie: if my mare goes without a martingale, that leaser better not dare stick one on my horse. They also darn well better keep my horse in the bit she currently goes in, whether I provide them with hers or they need to go buy one.) No deal = no lease. I actually can't say I know anyone that _wouldn't_ put that stuff in contract?


Mmmmmm, not sure on this, if I really wanted my horse in the same bit, I would send it with her. As to the 'not dare' to put a martingale on, that sounds just a touch extreme...I could understand not wanting something like draw reins put on, but a martingale? Mind you issues like this are why I decided not to lease my boy


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

updownrider said:


> I find in horses it is best to never say never.
> Is that you riding the bay horse in your barn in your profile? That horse most definitely has a martingale on in some of the flat and jumping pictures. Sure looks like a standing martingale to me.


That is my mare yes. She was out on lease and unfortunately leaser did not follow contract, I was surprised to say the least when I showed up at a show to find my mare in a standing. That lease was ended shortly after due to that, among many other issues. I keep those pictures up as they are still nice pictures of my mare. If she were in some sort of cruel device I obviously would not keep them up. I don't think martingales are "horrible devices", just don't agree with them for the most part. To each their own.

I personally just do not see the need to have a martingale on _most_ horses. I do not think they are awful devices or anything of the sort, I just feel they don't serve much of a purpose in _most_ cases. They can definitely have their time and place, but I feel it's silly to stick one on every horse in a barn simply "because" (which is exactly what I have seen at a good chunk of local barns in my area). True, it will not come into play if adjusted correctly (unless necessary), but for most horses who do not legitimatly need one, why have one on? I understand every person will have their own reasons, but a lot of what I see is trainers who stick one on every horse in the barn - IMHO "every horse in the barn" does not need one - that is where my disagreement with them comes again. Again, I do not disagree with them entirely, just as a general "rule" for my own opinions sake. =)


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Beverleyy, we are coming at this from different directions. As the person leasing a horse out, I get that you want to be sure the best care it taken of it. And that is reasonable of course.

I have never had a written contract on a horse I have leased (from others). Perhaps I have just been lucky, but there has never been any problems with this. I also have not had the owner standing over me saying 'you can use this, not that; or do this, not that'. Using my own gear I have always had my saddle fit checked on a new horse, and I don't recall using anything but a snaffle, for the most part. I have ridden in a kimblewick, but it must have been someone elses horse because I have never owned one, and I dont like them.

I have put those horses (some of them) in a double bridle, and it probably would not have occurred to me that I might need 'permission'. I take responsibility for my horses in my care as if I own them, whether I do or not. Likewise, if I felt the need to use a martingale, I wouldn't ask either. A correctly fitted running martingale is just decoration, unless the horse throws his head too high, when it will check the horse and prevent injury to the rider. It is a better device than the standing martingale IMO especially in jumping, because it *can* interfere with normal action of the horse.

But the greatest difference in our point of view is probably that you lease out your horses to people you don't know well before hand (if I am reading this right) and I would not lend or lease a horse to someone I don't know well enough to know how they treat their horses. So your strict rules are perhaps quite reasonable.

Unfortunately way too many people don't adjust a running martingale correctly, and usually it is on the short side, which means that the horse is being ridden with quite severe leverage. But once it is leased out, much of that is out of your control, whatever was agreed.

:gallop:


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Mmmmmm, not sure on this, if I really wanted my horse in the same bit, I would send it with her. As to the 'not dare' to put a martingale on, that sounds just a touch extreme...I could understand not wanting something like draw reins put on, but a martingale? Mind you issues like this are why I decided not to lease my boy


That's just my opinion. Same would go for any device, I am not only referring to a martingale, but due to the topic of the thread I threw that in there as an example. Basically, if I have it in contract that XYZ must be followed, and leaser signs that contract, then they better not be breaking it regardless of what piece of tack we are referring to. I would expect the same of any contract for any lease, regardless of what horse is being used for? If I were to lease a horse and the owner wanted me to use a particular bit, or a particular type of boots, or whatever ...I'd make sure to follow that contract regardless of how ridiculous I thought it to be. Leaser is not the owner. I have leased countless horses in the past for myself and always, always follow contract. If there was something in that contract that I disagreed strongly with, I would not be leasing that horse.


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Beverleyy, we are coming at this from different directions. As the person leasing a horse out, I get that you want to be sure the best care it taken of it. And that is reasonable of course.
> 
> I have never had a written contract on a horse I have leased (from others). Perhaps I have just been lucky, but there has never been any problems with this. I also have not had the owner standing over me saying 'you can use this, not that; or do this, not that'. Using my own gear I have always had my saddle fit checked on a new horse, and I don't recall using anything but a snaffle, for the most part. I have ridden in a kimblewick, but it must have been someone elses horse because I have never owned one, and I dont like them.
> 
> ...


Somewhat correct. I do lengthy checks on the person before leasing out a horse to said person, however, you can never be too careful IMHO. The last person I leased to unfortunately was an old friend. I thought I knew what sort of rider the person was. They had a good trainer that I knew well, but unfortunately the leaser/rider was doing many things behind my back that were far from okay - some of this was more minor things such as using a standing martingale or switching the bit. Honestly, if a leaser came to me and asked if they could use a standing martingale at a show (not every day use), and I knew it was adjusted correctly, I would probably be okay with that. No, I don't agree with them (for my mare, and as a general "rule"), but if leaser was up front with me and asked permission for a show, fine. 

So as far as contract goes, I am very careful and detailed regardless of who I lease to because so much can go wrong even when you think you know someone. I'd much rather be on the careful side than take a risk.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I tend to more think that having a running martingale on a horse when jumping is rather like wearing a good riding helmet - its doing nothing at all but sit on top of your head but if things go wrong it could make a huge difference to the outcome


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