# Trail horse refuses to walk, just wants to run



## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

There's a couple things i'd like to know first before giving advice. 

How does she ride at home? Can you w/t/c on a loose rein or is she hot there?

Where does she run? Is she wanting to go back to the barn or is she hot no matter where she is heading? 

Are you holding her back so she doesn't run or do you ride on a loose rein then correct her when she gets too fast? 

What bit is she in now and what bit was she in before? 

What does she do when she does she worked up when she can't run? Does she prance, rear, what?


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

My friend had a Morgan mare who did NOT walk on the trail. Once she jigged sideways for 12.5 miles. 

How to fix it? The horse will do a tiny circle until she steps off in a walk. Then she gets a loose rein reward until she starts to jig. Repeat until you throw up. Don't be in a hurry. 

Good Luck!!

Nancy


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Breakable Rider posted great questions and I'd like to hear the answers to them as well. 

But in general, CIRCLES (and lots of them) are going to be your friend with this mare. 

Take her out for a trail ride. Give yourself plenty of time. For the first ride, all I want her to do is walk. Allow her to have a loose rein. _Let her make a mistake._ The very instant she speeds up above a walk, and you did not ask her (be mindful that you keep your body language relaxed and don't accidentally tense up), pick one rein or the other, and direct rein her into a small enough circle that it will force her to break down to a walk. Once she's walking again, release the rein pressure, put her on a loose rein, and allow her to walk on. 

Chances are, she'll break into a faster gait again. That's okay. Pick one rein and do a small circle until she is walking again. Then let her walk on. 

Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. You might not get more than 100 yds on your first ride because you will be circling her so much. That's okay. 

I like this method because you are only using one rein at a time and you are not hauling on her mouth with two reins (can lead to rearing, if the horse wants to go faster). And in a way, you are making it her idea to slow down, because she has to in the small circle. And I like this method because it is low-pressure. You said she has the tendency to get upset when she can't run, and this is a calm way to keep bringing her back to you, without making a big fuss and making her more nervous.

If your boyfriend has really ingrained this issue in her mind, it is going to take a long time to fix. Of course, your end goal is that she should walk calmly. 

Your first ride, maybe shoot for getting her to take 10 steps at a calm walk on a loose rein. Great! Call that a success for the day. Either walk her home (if she walks home fine) or get off and loosen the cinch and hand walk her home. You want to make trail riding a pleasant experience for her again. When she walks nice, she will get rewarded by quitting and being done.


----------



## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

BreakableRider said:


> There's a couple things i'd like to know first before giving advice.
> 
> How does she ride at home? Can you w/t/c on a loose rein or is she hot there?
> 
> ...



I too would like to hear the answer to these questions.


----------



## steeldustgurl (Jan 3, 2014)

My advice would be to take her somewhere where she has to slow down and watch her feet like through deadfall, if you are comfortable with that. I would try to hold her back from doing anything but walking anywhere you take her, if you have deep sand (like a sandy trail or area), that is good to wear her out a little and she will want to walk. I have a horse that can get hot blooded and sometimes circles make her more uptight, and I found that doing this helped to calm her in a fast and long lasting way and bring her head back out of the clouds.


----------



## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

beau159 said:


> Breakable Rider posted great questions and I'd like to hear the answers to them as well.
> 
> But in general, CIRCLES (and lots of them) are going to be your friend with this mare.
> 
> ...


^This! 

The most important part of doing this is getting relaxation. If you just quickly bend your horse down and let her out as soon as she physically has to hit a walk, it will take quite a while for her to get it. As beau159 you need to stay relaxed through this, and your horse need to as well otherwise you can invite your horse to get anxious in those circles. 

This is what i'm always talking about when i'm constantly saying I bend horses to a stop, this is the next step. 

I teach the flex and then I am always using that as a 'relaxation cue' in conjunction with disengaging the hindquarters. When done correctly the horse is going to naturally start to relax when you do it because they aren't physically or mentally prepared to do anything silly when in that position. From there I go to the walk and bend down, then the trot. By the time you get to a trot, that relaxation when you pick up on one rein is pretty ingrained in the horse. That's why at that point instead of bending all the way to a stop you can go to just a walk. It isn't about getting the horse stopped, rather just really calm mentally. 

The big part that overlaps between beau and I is that you have to let your horse commit to a mistake first.


----------



## Keller4583 (Jan 6, 2014)

BreakableRider said:


> There's a couple things i'd like to know first before giving advice.
> 
> How does she ride at home? Can you w/t/c on a loose rein or is she hot there?
> 
> ...



To answer your questions:

She's the same at home as she is off the farm. If I'm not riding her out on a trail I can ride her on a loose rein fine. I've even free rode her tackless in the pasture and she was an angel. If I'm just riding around on her bareback she's calm, but the moment I tack her up and get on her she gets hot and wants to take off. I've even lunged her for a good amount of time both ways and she did everything fine w/t/c nice and calmly, then got on to go for a trail ride and she was tense the entire time and fought with me to run. 

She is hot no matter where we are going, to or from the barn. I always make her walk back to the barn every time I ride her because I won't put up with her racing back. It usually takes a long time of walking circles, but she caves eventually. And she's not buddy shy or anything like that. I just think she believes her job is to rush through a trail and be done with it since she was ran so much. 

If she starts to get hot on a trail ride and I'm with others then I usually try to stick her behind the slowest horse in the pack to hold her back. And in times like that I usually have tighter reins so she doesn't run over the horse in front of her. I don't take her out with others anymore because every time I put her behind a horse she freaks them out and makes them hot too. She starts panting heavily like a freight train and does a weird prance/slow jog. Before I swapped bits she would fling her head up and down. Now she just gives me an over tucked headset. The bit she had before was a copper mouth snaffle, but it wasn't working so I switched to a d ring. Which she seems to like a lot better. She doesn't get her tongue over the bit and doesn't grab it and take off. 

If I am riding her alone then i do things differently, I ride with a loose rein until she picks up her pace from a walk. Then ill correct her and put her back in the walk and continue riding with a loose rein. But eventually she gets sick of this and starts getting frustrated and ignores my corrections. So I walk circles with her. Even after an hour of doing nothing but walking circles, she doesn't feel any better. Just sweaty and tired. And lastly, when I'm holding her back she doesn't rear or anything. Just breathes heavy and side sets or jogs. She's never reared or bucked with me, even when she's extremely frustrated. The most she will do is side step or back up a bit then try to move forward again.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I have a couple of very forward going horses and I find that staying relaxed is the key to keeping them calm
These horse will often wind up if you start getting heavy on their mouths, get tense or start to lean forwards - you need to sit deep and quietly and change direction and ride them forwards into it rather than try to force a walk which will turn into a jig
When we've had horses that got themselves really stressed we cured them by leading them without a rider off another horse and once they were settled to that they were led with a rider on board off another horse the first couple of times. It seems to break the cycle of the habit


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Keller4583 said:


> If I am riding her alone then i do things differently, I ride with a loose rein until she picks up her pace from a walk. Then ill correct her and* put her back in the walk *and continue riding with a loose rein. But eventually she gets sick of this and starts getting frustrated and ignores my corrections. So I walk circles with her. *Even after an hour of doing nothing but walking circles,* she doesn't feel any better. Just sweaty and tired. And lastly, when I'm holding her back she doesn't rear or anything. Just breathes heavy and side sets or jogs. She's never reared or bucked with me, even when she's extremely frustrated. The most she will do is side step or back up a bit then try to move forward again.


Try doing what I suggested above. Sounds like you were doing something a little bit different. 

I would be rather anxious as well, if I got to do nothing but circles for an hour. :wink: With what I suggested above, you are giving her a reward/release for walking nicely by letting her go straight on a loose rein. She's only "punished" in the circle when she breaks gait. Rather than keeping her in a circle for hours on end, and never giving her the opportunity to walk straight. 

Sure, she might only get to walk a few steps in a straight line before she breaks gait right away, but it is something. And you'll be able to build on it. 

When you say you "put her back in the walk", how were you going about doing this? Using two hands on the reins?

I would definately only be riding this mare alone, for the time being, until you make some progress with her issue. A lot of time when we ride with others, we sometimes don't school our horses like we know we should, because we don't want to "interrupt" the rest of the group.


----------



## Keller4583 (Jan 6, 2014)

beau159 said:


> Try doing what I suggested above. Sounds like you were doing something a little bit different.
> 
> I would be rather anxious as well, if I got to do nothing but circles for an hour. :wink: With what I suggested above, you are giving her a reward/release for walking nicely by letting her go straight on a loose rein. She's only "punished" in the circle when she breaks gait. Rather than keeping her in a circle for hours on end, and never giving her the opportunity to walk straight.
> 
> ...


I use two hands to slow her down by slowly pulling back until she slows into a walk. But I also relax into the saddle and sit back more. I don't lean forward or give her any reason to get excited. I've ridden hot headed saddle seat horses and know not to do that.:wink: 
But thank you for taking the time to explain things to me! I know its going to take time. I just wanted a for sure game plan before spring rolls around and I can work with her again. Training trail horses is new for me, so I want to do it the right way.


----------



## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

Number uno, stay out of her mouth. Don't do anything more than light pressure on the bit.

When she wants to go go go, let her,. until she wants to slow, then when she starts to slow down, make her go faster for a short distance, then ask for the walk. If she stays in the walk great, but if not, let her go, and repeat until she does. It is called "letting the horse train them self".

The circling works with a few, but not many. Most of them will get worse the more you circle them.


----------



## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

Keller4583 said:


> To answer your questions:
> 
> *She's the same at home as she is off the farm. If I'm not riding her out on a trail I can ride her on a loose rein fine.* I've even free rode her tackless in the pasture and she was an angel. If I'm just riding around on her bareback she's calm,* but the moment I tack her up and get on her she gets hot and wants to take off.* I've even lunged her for a good amount of time both ways and she did everything fine w/t/c nice and calmly, then got on to go for a trail ride and *she was tense the entire time and fought with me to run.*
> 
> ...





Keller4583 said:


> I use two hands to slow her down by slowly pulling back until she slows into a walk. But I also relax into the saddle and sit back more. I don't lean forward or give her any reason to get excited. I've ridden hot headed saddle seat horses and know not to do that.:wink:
> But thank you for taking the time to explain things to me! I know its going to take time. I just wanted a for sure game plan before spring rolls around and I can work with her again. Training trail horses is new for me, so I want to do it the right way.


Just by using two reins in this situation you are inviting tension. As I say in so many of my threads, forget about using two reins until you have a nice soft horse that responds to one rein. You're just wearing out your brakes using two at this point.


----------



## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

I like the ponying idea, that might work to help your horse change its mind set. Just a few more questions. 

How much often do you ride, daily, every weekend, once a month?
When you ride how long do you ride for? 
When she gets "worked up" will she stop and stand?
Do you have access to an arena? 
How well does she respond to legs/ will she move off your leg, hips and shoulders?


----------



## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

"You need to let her commit to the mistake instead of making her walk, or as you;ve experienced you'll get her tense and end up in a fight."

This is such a great point, let her make the mistake and then you can teach/correct/train the right way. To many people try to keep their horse from making the mistake.


----------



## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

There are so many like minds in this thread. 

CowboyBob asked some god questions. To start this off i'd be riding her as frequently as possible, I ride horses 6 days a week. You need to be able to ride frequently enough that you can keep building on her training instead of staying put. 

When doing anything new, keep your sessions short. For now it's not about trying to go on a nice long relaxing ride. Reward the try, once you get a breakthrough and she's walking with less corrections, go home. As she gets better then you can build to longer rides but for now don't push it. 

Standing is a great indicator of how worked up she is. If she can stand nice and relaxed she isn't all that anxious to begin with, if she can't well the opposite. 

I know you said you have a roundpen but what kind of other areas do you have? I would start all of this at home of possible so she already knows the answer before you start adding in the variables of a trail ride. 

Moving that hip is super important for what i've been suggesting.


----------



## Keller4583 (Jan 6, 2014)

CowboyBob said:


> I like the ponying idea, that might work to help your horse change its mind set. Just a few more questions.
> 
> How much often do you ride, daily, every weekend, once a month?
> When you ride how long do you ride for?
> ...


I might try ponying her next time. I hadn't thought of it before. 
1) Do you mean how often do I ride Mika or just in general? 
I ride daily, sometimes more, but at a show barn not at the farm. I only ride the horses at the farm when it's warm out because during the winter its usually never above freezing. This past summer I worked her daily, but most of it was just groundwork and getting her back in shape. 
2) I rode a couple times a week, for small intervals of about 30 minutes after I figured out she couldn't be ridden with others. No long trail rides. Then this past fall I tried to take her out and do long schooling sessions in a huge flat hay field that was down the road. She walked the first couple times then started get anxiety again and wanted to run around. 
3) Once she gets worked up I have a hard time getting her to stand still calmly. She will side step and back up then move forward. Especially if we are out on a trail, she will refuse to halt. 
4) I have access to an arena, but it would be a long haul from the farm to the barn it's at. I was hoping I could find ways to get her to relax while still at the farm. I can still haul her out to the barn during the weekends, if you believe that would help?
5) She is extremely sensitive to leg cues. I believe she was trained in reining when she was younger. During the summer I rode her in an outdoor arena and she was doing fairly well. She moves off of leg pressure and bends really nicely when she has her head and isn't being hot. She can do flying lead changes and side steps at the jog. But i'm not the experienced with reining.


----------



## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

Getting her to slow down and relax into the circles as said already is the best way, imho. However here's a couple of other ideas that havent been mentioned yet. Sometimes it's really hard, or impossible to do circles on the trail--narrow trail with heavy vegetation on both sides, for example. The next best thing,for me, was to zigzag the trail, we go as far to the right as we can, then as far to the left,,,repeat,repeat,repeat. This won't work if she is super resistant , or fighting you, but it helped my horse. Of course, as already said, it's important to NOT use both reins to ask for slow down or stop, as she can really push against it,and it makes her feel trapped. Find someone to teach you a one rein stop if you/she doesnt already know it. Out on the trail when you need it is def not the time to teach it. 
Another idea, if you have like minded trail buddies, is to have the rider in front of you swing a rope behind them when she gets too close. Of course, their horse has to be ok with it (practiced in controlled situation-not out on the trail), and your horse has to be ok with ropes swinging near and around her face (practiced as said). It is a great remedy for 'tail gate-ing' out on the trail. After having the rope swining in their face or dinging them on the nose, the horse decides it's better to stay out of the rope zone. Whereas the rider of the problem horse doenst have to correct them at all, just keep them straight. It's pretty cool, actually. 

Good luck,
Fay


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

CowboyBob said:


> "You need to let her commit to the mistake instead of making her walk, or as you;ve experienced you'll get her tense and end up in a fight."
> 
> This is such a great point, *let her make the mistake * and then you can teach/correct/train the right way. To many people try to keep their horse from making the mistake.


I was going to reiterate this as well, although I mentioned it before too. 

I think we, as humans, get so hung up on not wanting our horses to make a mistake. When in reality, making mistakes is the way that they learn.

Often, I will test my horses intentionally to see if they WILL make a mistake, so that I can correct them once again to reinforce the training even better. No, I'm not nagging on them 24/7 but I like to know that if I make a mistake (for example) and my hands get out of position, that they will not raise their head, and will instead give to the bit. I don't remember which clinician it was that I was watching on RFD TV, but he was purposefully raising his hands high and hard in the air, and that danged horse was SO well trained, that she would just drop her head and GIVE. It was amazing to watch. That is what I want to strive for: A horse that knows their job so well, will do it correctly even when the cue is given wrong. 




Keller4583 said:


> This past summer I worked her daily, but most of it was just groundwork and getting her back in shape.


There certainly is nothing wrong with ground work, but for the problem that this particular horse has, she needs a lot of time in the saddle, every single day. 



Keller4583 said:


> 3) Once she gets worked up I have a hard time getting her to stand still calmly. She will side step and back up then move forward. Especially if we are out on a trail, she will refuse to halt.


Sometimes, this is one of those "pick your battles". 

My horse Red sometimes will NOT stand still. If I force him to stand still, he will rear. Even though I want him to stand still, I will choose not to fight with him on that, and will work on something else instead. When his mind is in a better place, and he can handle it, then I will ask him to stand. I try to "pick my battles" so that it ends in success for the both of us. 

If she absolutely refuses to stand still, work on something else. Trotting circles. Sidepassing. Rollbacks. Etc. Get a positive result teaching her something else. When her mind has calmed down, THEN ask her to stand. 

I wouldn't worry too much at making her stand at this point, because let's face it, you can't even get her to walk nicely. :wink: One thing at a time. Get her to walk calmly first, and then you can tackle standing nicely. 



Keller4583 said:


> I have access to an arena, but it would be a long haul from the farm to the barn it's at. I was hoping I could find ways to get her to relax while still at the farm. I can still haul her out to the barn during the weekends, if you believe that would help?


Honestly, your problem is riding her on the trails so that's what I would be doing = riding on the trails. You might not leave the yard for the first week if she is THAT anxious, but that's okay. This sounds like a pretty deep-set problem, so just remember to take very small baby steps and reward the smallest effort. You'll get farther faster doing that, than overloading her system with more than she can handle.


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

mslady254 said:


> Sometimes it's really hard, or impossible to do circles on the trail--narrow trail with heavy vegetation on both sides, for example. The next best thing,for me, was to zigzag the trail, we go as far to the right as we can, then as far to the left,,,repeat,repeat,repeat.


Zig-zags and serpentines are absolutely another way to go about this, but I find that circles work so much better. 

Honestly, I would also avoid any narrow trails at this point, that would not allow me to circle while this horse has this problem. It'd stick to trails or areas that would allow me to do what I needed to do. Even if I needed to get off and lead my horse through a narrow area to get there, I do what needs to be done.


----------



## Keller4583 (Jan 6, 2014)

beau159 said:


> I was going to reiterate this as well, although I mentioned it before too.
> 
> I think we, as humans, get so hung up on not wanting our horses to make a mistake. When in reality, making mistakes is the way that they learn.
> 
> ...


^^ That's what I figured. She's fine in an arena for the most part. Her main problem is out on the trails. She isn't a show horse, she's a trail horse. That's why I was questioning the use of an arena. I know she needs to be work daily in order to get past her anxiety. I just can't work her in the dead of winter where I live, it's -23 degrees outside right now :-|. I will start working her daily this coming spring when the weather is nicer. I can get her to walk out of the yard calmly, but once she hits a trail she begins to get anxious. I will definitely start worrying more about how productive a session is than how long it is.


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I hear ya. The winter is when my horses get time off. I'm a dedicated rider but even -24*F is too cold for me. 

No worries, because she's not learning any trail riding bad habits in the pasture. ;-) And your problems won't go anywhere either!

Exactly. If she was super productive in 10 minutes, great! End for the day. But if it takes 45 min, well so be it. Let her dictate how long she gets worked that day (or should I say, how long she gets WALKED that day?).


----------



## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

1) Do you mean how often do I ride Mika or just in general? 
I ride daily, sometimes more, but at a show barn not at the farm. I only ride the horses at the farm when it's warm out because during the winter its usually never above freezing. This past summer I worked her daily, but most of it was just groundwork and getting her back in shape. 

I was asking about the horse you are having trouble with. To fix this you need to ride her LOTS. There is no fast fix for this one.

2) I rode a couple times a week, for small intervals of about 30 minutes after I figured out she couldn't be ridden with others. No long trail rides. Then this past fall I tried to take her out and do long schooling sessions in a huge flat hay field that was down the road. She walked the first couple times then started get anxiety again and wanted to run around. 

At first I would ride her as long as she is relaxed, as soon as she starts geting "worked up" I would try to find something that she does well pivot on the forehand side pass something to for her to focus on and relax her, then I would get off loosen the cinch and lead her home or just let her stand in the field for a while. Then I would get back on and start again. You have to teach her that being relaxed is better. 

3) Once she gets worked up I have a hard time getting her to stand still calmly. She will side step and back up then move forward. Especially if we are out on a trail, she will refuse to halt. 

I would have bet money this is how you would answer. You have two problems she gets worked up and can't bring it back down and there is no "shut off" for it. You are going to have to teach her how to come back down from being worked up, and you need to teach her to stop pushing. The second issue (the lack of a shut off) is WAY harder to teach then the first. But if she response to your legs well then you are halfway there. 
I'll talk about teaching her to come back down later but the shut off in so important. Understand horse are pushers they drive forward from their hips that is their power. We try to stop/slow a horse with a bit and by pulling back on the reins. For a horse that is pushing, with their hips, pulling on there reins is not the best way to get a horse to slow down or stop, to get them to slow down or stop we have to teach them to stop or slow the pushing. 
What would you say to a person that never took their foot off the gas peddle when they were driving they just pushed hard on the breaks to try to stop the car RPM are screaming tires are smoking car is going slow because they have the breaks on too. The driver looks at you and says "I can hardly keep my car going slow it just wants to got fast all the time". You would say, "try taking your foot off the gas peddle". Right? 
That's it you have to teach your horse to let off the gas she doesn't have to PUSH all the time. disengaging her rear end is another way to help make her stop. Make her step over moving her hips out of line with her body. You could do this in the round pin be walking around ask her to move her hips over make her take a big step over and stop. Your trying to teach her to "shut off" that drive, drive drive, push, push, push. Also, another way to work on stop is using your weight more then your reins this can be done in the round pin also. Get her walking really well by driving your Hips forward you should be pushing her to go forward try not to get faster faster, but forward forward, then STOP pushing with your hips set as heavy as you can in our head not out load scream STOOOOPPP!!!!, then pick up the reins and make her stop. Work towards when your drop your set your horse should stop. In a round pin you should be able to work on this at a walk and after she is nailing it at a walk do the same thing at a trot. Remember you are teaching/training her that stop means stop pushing and stop means stop. 

4) I have access to an arena, but it would be a long haul from the farm to the barn it's at. I was hoping I could find ways to get her to relax while still at the farm. I can still haul her out to the barn during the weekends, if you believe that would help?

An arena would help you be able to work on teaching her to come back down from being "worked up". If you can go to the arena, get her warmed up Relaxed but warmed up. Once she is warmed up start working on bringing her up then back down up then back down. I teach horses to move off my leg as soon as I can, I would my leg exercises to calm a horse down it gives them something to do that they have to focus on and them focusing on something they know how to do seems to relax them. If a horse I am working with gets worked up for whatever reason, we go back to hips and shoulders mover you hips now move your shoulders once the start to relax I let them stand for a little bit, then we walk off and do something else. Then we come back to what get them worked up.


----------



## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

beau159 said:


> Honestly, your problem is riding her on the trails so that's what I would be doing = riding on the trails. You might not leave the yard for the first week if she is THAT anxious, but that's okay. This sounds like a pretty deep-set problem, so just remember to take very small baby steps and reward the smallest effort. You'll get farther faster doing that, than overloading her system with more than she can handle.



I agree with you that this is a Trail problem, but the arena is a great place to work on skills that you can use on the tail ride. while you are out on a trail ride all you are going to be able to work on is slow, relax, focus, in the arena you can do all that without so much trouble. Teach them how to relax in a relaxed state and show them that being relaxed is better is much easier then trying to make them relax to learn to relax. The arena is a great place to focus your horse on skills needed out on a trail ride. once they have to skills use them on the ride.


----------



## Maryland Rider (Jul 2, 2013)

I have dealt with this identical problem.
A gem in the arena, wildman on the trail.
It took two years of walking the trails to guarantee me a controlled walk.
I would have to always lead due to excessive speed issues.
Everyone understood I would circle back or find a grassy area or waterhole to pause.
Rode every weekend, 4 to 6, 2-3 hour rides, rough terrain.
Circles, zigzags, stop rear pivot do it again.
Five year old when I acquired this horse.
This is how I learned patience in my forties.
Now at 11 years old still agile and super quick but worth all the effort.
Chances R it will not happen overnight but will be well worth it.

My bring it back down problems always stemmed from the train.
Trains breaking on curves and all the squealing with bridges.
View attachment 348865

Now we stop to take pictures of all the trains.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Not sure who suggested it - but it does come up on these sort of threads as a solution so I will give my thought
Making a horse 'go' as way to fix one that gets too forward rarely works. They don't have the intelligence to understand that sort of reverse psychology so all you're doing is allowing them to do what they want to do so reinforcing the idea in their heads that its OK behavior
Mostly what happens is they get fitter so can keep it up for longer


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

jaydee said:


> Making a horse 'go' as way to fix one that gets too forward rarely works.


I agree with you on that one Jaydee. 

I will say that it does work for _some horses_ .... but not for most. Usually the types that want to go-go-go will be the types that will run themselves dead before they would voluntarily stop. And for those types, you'll end up making the problem much worse if you try to run them until they want to stop (because they'll never stop).


----------



## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

"Making a horse 'go' as way to fix one that gets too forward rarely works. They don't have the intelligence to understand that sort of reverse psychology so all you're doing is allowing them to do what they want to do so reinforcing the idea in their heads that its OK behavior"

Really, this works 100% of the time. A tired horse always listens, a fresh one, may not. It is not reverse psychology, it is understanding horse behavior. The only time it doesn't work, is when the rider quits first, then the horse got its way, and that never works.

If you have a problem with teaching a horse something, and have exhausted all normal methods, just get the horse truly tired before you ask, and it will listen to your requests everytime. It is obvious why so many trainers do not use this. It can sometimes take hours to get them tired. 

And no they will NOT kill them self. A horse has a very strong survival instinct, it will slow down and stop when it gets tired. Only we humans can force them to kill them self.


----------



## Keller4583 (Jan 6, 2014)

bbsmfg3 said:


> "Making a horse 'go' as way to fix one that gets too forward rarely works. They don't have the intelligence to understand that sort of reverse psychology so all you're doing is allowing them to do what they want to do so reinforcing the idea in their heads that its OK behavior"
> 
> Really, this works 100% of the time. A tired horse always listens, a fresh one, may not. It is not reverse psychology, it is understanding horse behavior. The only time it doesn't work, is when the rider quits first, then the horse got its way, and that never works.
> 
> ...


I will say I have tried this on her once because a trainer recommended it. But after a long amount of pushing her to "go", once she slowed down it did absolutely nothing. She got incredibly sweaty and tired and was still a spitfire with me. Like I said before, she DOESN'T like to run the entire time. She looks irritated and unhappy. She just believes its her JOB to run on the trails. After pushing her to keep up at a fast pace through the trail, I went out to a large hay field and walked serpentines and circles with her but she still gave me a fight even though she was walking. I don't like running her into the ground. I want her to enjoy being ridden again, and if that's going to take awhile to achieve then so be it. I want it done right so it doesn't have to be done again. She's way too good of a horse to let sit around.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I have tried it as a last resort thing (making them run) and I can't say it worked well at all
Some horses can run for a really long time before they get tired and chances are a rider who isn't very fit will get tired before the horse does - or you run out of safe running areas and make things worse than they already are
I've had hunting horses that needed a strong bit to hold them and no matter how long you galloped they would still be ready and more than willing to go again first chance they got


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

bbsmfg3 said:


> Really, this works 100% of the time. A tired horse always listens, a fresh one, may not. It is not reverse psychology, it is understanding horse behavior. The only time it doesn't work, is when the rider quits first, then the horse got its way, and that never works.
> 
> If you have a problem with teaching a horse something, and have exhausted all normal methods, just get the horse truly tired before you ask, and it will listen to your requests everytime. It is obvious why so many trainers do not use this. It can sometimes take *hours* to get them tired.
> 
> And no they will NOT kill them self. A horse has a very strong survival instinct, it will slow down and stop when it gets tired. Only we humans can force them to kill them self.


I disagree. 

When a horse gets worked up and anxious, they aren't using the survival side of their brain. They are using the flight side. They aren't thinking rationally when they get into a state of mind where they are nervous, anxious, and can't settle down. 

And forcing THAT type of horse to run more is only going to make matters worse. You pushing them to go more is only going to frazzle them further. Yes, they'll be tired. But they won't stop and they won't settle down, because you've just "riled them up" even more. You can't access the horse's thinking-side of their brain if they can't calm down.

Not to mention dangerous. You get a fragile-minded horse like that, they'll run you off a ditch, or an edge, or over the highway, or who knows what, if they are tense, anxious, and afraid. And there you are telling them to keep going. 

My horse Red is like that. He would have blown up on me if I would have forced him to RUN to try to settle him down and tire him out. 

There are horses that method works on, and there are horses that method does not work on. My horse Red is one of them, and from the way the OP describes her horse, I think she is one of them too.

I just don't understand why you would WANT to do such a stressful thing to a horse (making them run) when the same thing can be accomplished in a no-stress way like the circle method we've been talking about.

Not to mention the damage you could inflict to their lungs and legs by *running *them for *HOURS* as you suggested.


----------



## Keller4583 (Jan 6, 2014)

beau159 said:


> I disagree.
> 
> When a horse gets worked up and anxious, they aren't using the survival side of their brain. They are using the flight side. They aren't thinking rationally when they get into a state of mind where they are nervous, anxious, and can't settle down.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you here.

Like I said, I tried this method once and it did nothing for my horse. She seemed more anxious at the end of the ride than at the beginning. She's just too strong minded of a horse to use it on. I'm not saying it doesn't work at all, just not on the type of horse my mare is. 

Thank you all for taking the time to respond with your thoughts and opinions. I was a little iffy about asking for help, but i'm glad I did. A lot of you seem to be great horse-people. I think I have a solid plan for this mare once spring time rolls around. Thanks again to anyone who posted!


----------



## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

" But after a long amount of pushing her to "go""

This misses the method completely. You DO NOT push them to go. Let them do it all by their self. Then when they do want to slow down, you push them just a little( 2 or 3 minutes max), just long enough to let them know who is in control. Let the horse primarily teach them self.

A tired horse will not be irritated or riled, they will want to stand. And NO, you will not hurt them. Only if the human pushes them will they get hurt. A horse's natural instinct will protect them if the human stays out of the way. You are using the horse's natural instincts to get them in listening mode. A very very goey horse will not listen readily until it is tired. YES, there are other ways, but all of the other ways take a lot, lot more time(days, or even months longer). There is a real benefit to teaching a horse while it's tired. They will retain what your asking much longer and faster when they are tired. It is obvious the disagree-ers have never had a tired horse, and lack an understanding of natural horse instincts. And for gosh sake, you pick the terrain that's easy and safe. A lot of hills is helpful, but not necessary.

These very goey horses are my favorite riding horses. Once trained, they are the most fun, and easiest to ride. BUT, every once in a while even the trained ones, need a refresher in only go go, when asked. And strange as it might seem, once you give them their head and let them go, they don't go until they are tired. They remember the lesson very quickly, and return control to the rider very fast.

Another way that works and works well is the freeze whoa. You teach the horse a que, that when given, the horse will stand motionless until asked to move. With a big engine, goey, horse this takes a minimum of 6 months, usually a year or more. During this time, this is the only thing taught and there is only minimal riding. Most folks give up, and/or do not have the patience.

Unfortunately, very, very, very few trainers are of any use in training one of these. They simply can not afford the time necessary to get the job done. They can get the horse doing just fine in the confines of the training arena, but that usually does nothing when the horse gets out on the trail with a bunch of speed demons. 

The horse you see in my avatar was one of these horses. Only in addition to being very goey, he was also and outlaw. It took 18 months before I could ride him with a group. Now I can ride him any where with anything(except doggie walkers, I simply will not ask him to walk that slow). But, very few riders can ride him. If he gets the least bit excited, his que to slow and or stop, is to drop the reins. If you get in his mouth the least bit when he gets the least bit excited, he'll either buck you off or run away with you, AND there is nothing you can do about it, so long as you have bit pressure. But get off the bit before he blows and he will freeze in place.


----------



## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

mslady254 said:


> Getting her to slow down and relax into the circles as said already is the best way, imho. However here's a couple of other ideas that havent been mentioned yet. Sometimes it's really hard, or impossible to do circles on the trail--narrow trail with heavy vegetation on both sides, for example. The next best thing,for me, was to zigzag the trail, we go as far to the right as we can, then as far to the left,,,repeat,repeat,repeat. This won't work if she is super resistant , or fighting you, but it helped my horse. Of course, as already said, it's important to NOT use both reins to ask for slow down or stop, as she can really push against it,and it makes her feel trapped. Find someone to teach you a one rein stop if you/she doesnt already know it. Out on the trail when you need it is def not the time to teach it.
> Another idea, if you have like minded trail buddies, is to have the rider in front of you swing a rope behind them when she gets too close. Of course, their horse has to be ok with it (practiced in controlled situation-not out on the trail), and your horse has to be ok with ropes swinging near and around her face (practiced as said). It is a great remedy for 'tail gate-ing' out on the trail. After having the rope swining in their face or dinging them on the nose, the horse decides it's better to stay out of the rope zone. Whereas the rider of the problem horse doenst have to correct them at all, just keep them straight. It's pretty cool, actually.
> 
> Good luck,
> Fay



I have a mare that gets hot when we circle, so we do zig zags or S curves on the trail when she is rushing. I make certain to use one rein when I do this, or she can rear.

Also, I like to take her onto rough terrain when she is rushing, to make her think about her feet. For example, when the group is riding on a dirt road and she is rushing, I start making her do S curves. If that doesn't slow her, we go to the side of the road, into rocks, trees, bushes and uneven ground. If that doesn't work, we start to bend around trees, rocks and brush. Usually, that will do the trick!


----------



## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

You mentioned you have done a lot of groundwork with her too. Just a reminder that you must keep groundwork balanced by doing movement exercises and stillness exercises. 

I think you could work on ground tying with this mare and it would help her a lot in the saddle. If you are not able to ride right now, you could take advantage of the downtime to teach ground tying, being still, and being calm in your groundwork sessions.


----------



## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Boy, does this sound all too familiar. Only I didn't create my speedster...I bought it. These horses do make you learn! Lots of good advice here. Personally I would not let the horse run out but that's me.
Here is one thing I did figure out. You are also dealing with personality type. You certainly need to be able to rate their speed on the trail without a fight. But some horses are movers and some are happy to mosey. My mare (Arab/Saddlebred) will never be one to just mosey. I'm not a real mosey fan myself but in order to keep marital bliss out on the trail, I now ride a mosey type Paint mare who is a good trail partner to my husband's Paint gelding.
Here's another thing...once you get this horse going down the trail at a reasonable speed, clue the boyfriend in that this process will not be repeated and it would be wise to not look at the trail as a racetrack! : )
Good luck to you.


----------



## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

What are you feeding her? It could be a change in feed/hay would go a long way towards changing her.

And might also try different tack? Sometime breaking the association of one thing as it relates to another can help.

And too, a good work up by vet could help.

Saddle could be pressing on a sensitive area, bridle too, that on short rides might not get horse wound up, but on longer ones could be so aggravating horse just takes off.


----------

