# Newbie questions about leasing



## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

I'm an adult beginner, in my 50's, answering the call of the mid-life crisis for something new and fun and challenging to do, and have found that I am now obsessed with all things horse. How often does that happen? 

It's still very early for me, but I know that in about six months or so I'm probably going to want to lease a horse. I live in Northern California, so there are a number of barns within 45 minutes or so of my home. The problem is that I am having a hard time getting information from them about what their leases cost, and what is included. 

The information that I do get seems to vary widely. One barn has a half-lease for $260.00, and another (where I ride) has one for $500, and they require you to still buy lessons, but at a discount. 

The place where I ride justifies the difference in cost by saying that they pay for all of the vet bills, which makes me wonder what the point of leasing at the other place would be if I'd be paying health upkeep for a horse that someone else owns and is still making lesson money from. Is that normal? It seems like that's what you'd be spending when you just full-board a horse that you own. Why would I lease if I'm still responsible for all the costs of ownership, especially with a lesson horse that someone else might hurt, leaving me responsible for those injuries? 

I can't get the $260.00 people to call me back to tell me exactly what is included in their half-lease, so I'm confused. What is typically included in a full- or half-lease? What should I expect to pay, and for what, exactly? Is my regular barn trying to scam me by making a big deal out of saying vet care is included, or can I trust them? 

Please help me learn more about leasing; there's so much out there about buying, and so much out there saying not to buy too early, but little information about what to look for in a lease.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Yeah, we are always telling people to lease first and buy later but sometimes it's not easy to separate the wheat from the chaff in a leasing situation and in some parts of the country (like mine) there are virtually no leases available!

It's possible that the $260 a month place doesn't want to deal with people who shop by phone-try to arrange an appointment with them to check out the horses, facilities and the owner's attitude. Go to other places too and speak face to face and ask a lot of questions-they will probably ask you a lot of questions too as they will want to know what level of rider you are and how involved you want to be. Do you just want have a horse you can casually ride a couple times a week or do you want to be fully involved? Sometimes you are just paying for some rides, in other situations you will have full, exclusive use of the horse at any time and then the price goes up. Leases vary so much! It all depends on your expectations and those of the horse's owner.

$500 a month seems extremely high unless the horse will be yours to use _exclusively_ and you _want_ to include the lessons and showing. Taking on responsibility for _all vet bills no matter what_ is not how leases are usually written. The horse could suffer an injury or illness while you aren't even around and you'd be stuck with thousands in vet bills. It's usually a flat fee with what that includes _stated in detail_. You will be taking on some liability in all cases but you want to take on only what is fair.

Check out this website to see how a typical part time vs full time lease is written. Horse Legal Forms Most horse owners will add and subtract items depending on what is most important to them. Make sure that the lease can be cancelled at any time for cause or no cause.

Make appointments with various places that have horses available and see how you feel about each place. You may just want to start with a casual, ride a couple times a week, non-exclusive use type lease while you are looking around and deciding which way you want to go.

In the meantime, welcome to the horse world!!:falloff:It's great fun!!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks! The point of leasing would mainly be twofold: To get more saddle time once I'm ready to ride without the instructor always present, and to have an opportunity to bond with a specific horse so that I have some consistency in what's being encountered as I learn. I know that there are pros and cons to that, but as an older beginner I'm more interested in getting up to speed in a way that will help me achieve independent pleasure riding as safely and quickly as I can. I don't have the luxury of time to learn a lot of showing technique, etc. but do want to work hard to learn to do what I want to do and how to communicate the basics to the horse in a correct way. So more saddle time and consistency seem to be good goals to me.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

I feel like my post is lost in this forum and should be in Horse Talk, maybe. One of the things that makes it so hard to learn about the various leases is that no one will just talk about that with me over the phone or respond to emails. Central valley of California is a big area and I don't have the time to go to all the barns to find out if they even have horses for lease, much less find out what their terms are if they do. Is there a better way for me to network in my area so that I can learn more? I joined a few local Facebook groups but they are mainly for sales, and there isn't just regular discussion.


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## Kay Armstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

It would be hard to compare apples to apples here. It will all depend on what the horse owner needs and what the level of the horse's training is. I was just offered a half lease on a very well educated school master horse. The offer was $400 a month then lessons on top of that, which would make the total about $600 a month for 3 days a week! If the board fee isn't high and the horse owner just needs help in getting the horse exercised the cost might not be very much. If the horse is older and gets ridden a lot maybe a masseuse and a chiropractor are in the mix.....every situation is different. I would certainly want to meet and see the potential lessee ride before I would let anybody on my horse. That might be why you are having a hard time getting a response. Let us know how it goes or what you decide. I'm excited to hear about your choices.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Kay Armstrong said:


> It would be hard to compare apples to apples here. It will all depend on what the horse owner needs and what the level of the horse's training is. I was just offered a half lease on a very well educated school master horse. The offer was $400 a month then lessons on top of that, which would make the total about $600 a month for 3 days a week! If the board fee isn't high and the horse owner just needs help in getting the horse exercised the cost might not be very much. If the horse is older and gets ridden a lot maybe a masseuse and a chiropractor are in the mix.....every situation is different. I would certainly want to meet and see the potential lessee ride before I would let anybody on my horse. That might be why you are having a hard time getting a response. Let us know how it goes or what you decide. I'm excited to hear about your choices.


Thank you! I have some lessons scheduled at a different barn starting this week so I will see about what they might have, if anything. Just getting together a list of places that might offer a lease is difficult. I actually really love the lesson horse I'm usually on at the current barn. I don't know if he is available for lease, but the price of their lease is really high for me considering their distance from my home. I would really only be able to ride him on weekends so not much benefit over what I'm getting just paying for the weekly lesson.


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## Luvmypwds (Aug 28, 2015)

I'm in similar shoes as you. An older beginner, and know that I will want to lease. The stable at which I take lessons won't even discuss leasing with me at the moment; they will only lease to those with whom they've establiished a relationship. So I'm not much help, but can tell you that another stable that is about 40 minutes away from me charges upwards of $1000 for a full lease but that includes vet checkups and farrier. I live in Toronto, so not a cheap city either.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Craig's list is your friend. 

it should be a fixed fee. your responsibility for any other fee should be well spelld out, such as vet bills for injuries while you ride. usually, mainanence vet bills are owner's responsiblity, as are shots, teeth and other annual care vet visits. shoes are also owners's responseability, unless horse must be shod solely for YOUR needs.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> Craig's list is your friend.
> 
> it should be a fixed fee. your responsibility for any other fee should be well spelld out, such as vet bills for injuries while you ride. usually, mainanence vet bills are owner's responsiblity, as are shots, teeth and other annual care vet visits. shoes are also owners's responseability, unless horse must be shod solely for YOUR needs.


THANK YOU! I went there, searched for "horse lease" and 24 horses came up. They look to be in the $150.00 to $250.00 range, definitely more affordable then the barn I'm taking lessons from. I'm not ready yet but now I at least have a starting point. :gallop:


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Leases are done a few ways. First their is the free lease, which is the most common in some parts. In this case you're normally leasing for a private owner not a business. A free lease means that you pay no fee for the horse but you pay generally all its up keep, and routine vet or at fault vet. This means you're responsible for board, food, dental, hoof care etc. The benefit is that you get the experience of owning a horse which is just for you, you can ride all you want and you don't have to fork out a purchase price, and have no lasting responsibility. In all respects though you are paying the upkeep of a horse.

Then there is a part lease. With a private horse that might mean you get a set amount of days a week for a set fee or a certain amount of hours of riding. In this case you don't really have the experience of ownership because you aren't in charge of things.

A part lease with a business will usually mean rides on a set amount of days at set times for a fixed fee. Many require lessons as part of it. It's not really a lease, it's more paying for unsupervised riding as you have no real rights to a horse. 

The benefit is you can improve your riding at a cheaper cost and have a pretty safe horse, as well as lower costs.

Then there is a full lease which can be private or business which usually means full and exclusive use of a horse. This is usually a set fee system where you lay an amount equivalent to all upkeep and perhaps an additional amount.

Really I don't think leasing from barns is a good idea. I mean it's extra rides but that's it. Often the horses are safe but unresponsive. Remember they are about making a profit. Most places don't do leases if they don't know you. Often you take lessons for a year or so and then perhaps lease from them. I think it's completely normal for them not to quote you. lots of places look for the right kind of suitable person for their barn, with the right amount of experience.

Private leases can be great, and terrible. 

It comes down a lot to the horse. An educated schoolmater can be a great lease horse, a green or uneducated one - generally not a great deal. Remember a good, trained horses can seek for thousands so you can get. A great deal leasing. At the other end of the spectrum people often lease out horses they don't have the time for, often they're green, unfit and need work. You don't want to be training for free. 

Often good horses can be found among teens going away to college. Or women having a child - horses worth keeping but their owners don't have the time.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

This makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't expect anyone to lease to me without developing a relationship in some way; I have been active in canine rescue in this area so have animal friends who are also into horses for good word of mouth references. I won't be ready for at least six months-- need a better seat and my car payments will be finished then  So in that time I hope to figure out exactly where I ultimately want to land as a regular student, and to develop the right relationships with the right people to make sure everything falls into place for me to grow well in learning. That's why I am asking now. Thanks so much for the insight. This forum is fantastic


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## huntergirl84 (Aug 30, 2009)

Hi There, I have a lot of experience in leasing horses (both being the leasee and the leasor) and thought I might add/ clarify a few things. The cost of a lease will vary wildly from place to place due to the fact that most owners will choose to include different fees in the cost (commons things include regular vet fees, shoes, & supplements. Some folks won't include any of those fees while others will include all. NONE of that is fishy---it is just levels of "how good of a deal is this person offering"!). Depending on what "extra fees" are included along with accounting for the fact that the lease fee reflects the cost of board and board rates vary dramatically from barn to barn, it is quite possible that a half lease at one barn is $500 and is only $260 at another. 

That said, here are some red flags to look for: 1) If they are not willing to give you a break down of the cost, then something is fishy (for example, I half lease my current horse to someone and I charge half the cost of board & half the cost of shoes---this is made clear upfront and is in the contract). For those "extra fees" if any look unusually high then you have every right to ask to see a receipt or to call the farrier, vet, etc to ask if those fees seem correct. 2) If the person is asking you to pay ALL vet bills or anything other than regular maintenance such as worming, vaccines, coggins then something is wrong. You should NEVER have to pay "unforeseen" vet bills due to injury, etc unless the injury was caused by your gross negligence. 3) If anyone ever asks you to pay for something that was not outlined in your contract, then that is fishy and technically they legally cannot force you to pay anything not in your contact.

Regarding the best way for you to get information, this is tough. The main reason that you are probably having trouble finding out about leases is that they are hard to come by! For example, I am at a farm with 45 horses and a huge lesson program and at any given time I'd say there are probably only 3 or 4 horses for lease. Unlike lessons, Leases are not a common "service" for a barn to offer. A small number of barns or trainers will lease their horses out but it is typically to their students. The rest of leases are with private owners, i.e. regular folks who own a horse and either don't have the time &/or money to fully care for the horse (and thus need some help!). This is to say that when you call a barn and ask about leases and they don't call back it is probably b/c either a) they don't offer or have any leases or b) they are leery of a person they don't know---why risk giving a stranger the opportunity to lease the one or 2 horses that are available at the farm when they can offer that opportunity to a student or member of the community that they already know. Thus, if you want your best shot of finding a lease, I would say 1) personally visit the farm and ask, 2) look online---just google "horse lease california" or whatever and see what pops up---this is how most private parties advertise unless they are trying to find someone within their barn, 3) IF you are still shopping around barns to find the right fit for lessons, try to find a larger barn and let them know that something you are looking for is a place that has horses for lease. If you are only looking for a partial lease then it is highly unlikely that someone will be willing to allow you to take their horse to your barn. Thus, the horse you end up leasing will very likely be a horse at your barn you take lessons at. Larger barns are more likely to have horses for lease and if they know you aren't going to take lessons at a barn that can't offer a lease then they may be more likely to share info with you on horses available for lease.

Lastly and perhaps most importantly, make sure that you sign a contract with the owner of the horse you plan to lease that lays out all of your lease terms! This is a legal and binding document that will protect both you, the horse, and the horse owner. I find it is also a really great way to clearly communicate each others expectations so that no miscommunications or hard feelings arise down the line due to a misunderstanding. You can google "horse lease contract" to see what sorts of things are covered in the agreement. As a previous post mentioned, most owners will add or delete things to customize as they would like and you are also allowed to ask that the owner include any terms that you'd like---the owner can always decline but you have every right to ask and walk away from the deal if you don't like something.

I can't say enough good things about leasing---it's all of the joys of owning a horse and none of the pain. As a beginner, it allows you to get experience riding outside of lessons AND learning about general horse care (a good primer in case you ever want to own). Meanwhile, you don't have to deal with sometimes huge and unexpected vet bills and vet care and you also don't have to commit---i.e. if you find that you and the horse aren't a good match, it isn't the end of the world, just stop the lease and move on.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It is in your best interest, skill-wise, to ride as many horses as you can. Ownership or lease narrows it down to one horse. If you are taking lessons, ride as many different horses as you can. Change barns if you have to. Each horse teaches us something.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks. I am trying out a new barn on Thursday and then trying another one, much closer to my home, in a couple of weeks. If I like the instructor at the close one, I might shoot for a lesson twice a week. I like the social aspect of getting together with my friends for a lesson on Saturday mornings at the current barn, but I don't think I want to lease a horse that is that far away (40 minute drive). Ideally I might be able to lease a horse that's closer but still take lessons at a few places to get that variety. So far I've been on three different horses; two were easy riders for me but the other one was a no-go, as in, he wouldn't go LOL. I'm sure i was confusing him, being so green. That's why I want and need a lot more saddle time, however I can get it.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I think leasing is more suitable after around 50 hours of saddle time - by then you'll probably have a different perspective on what sort of horse you want to lease and contacts as well!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The No-Go horse may have become arena sour from too many lessons. Had you stuck it out with the No-Go you'd have learned that by just sitting there he will eventually move. He was a good example of variety.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Saddlebag said:


> The No-Go horse may have become arena sour from too many lessons. Had you stuck it out with the No-Go you'd have learned that by just sitting there he will eventually move. He was a good example of variety.


It's funny. The no-go horse is the one my friend loves to ride. She was on my usual lesson horse and I was on hers, and I think that horse just wanted her to ride him. Once we switched, they were both fine. Actually, my usual horse was really happy and responsive for me that day. Weird.


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## huntergirl84 (Aug 30, 2009)

I would actually recommend finding one place for lessons and just sticking with that trainer. Having the consistency of one trainer who has a complete understanding of your riding and where you are at will be tremendously helpful, especially when you're first starting. You will also find that each trainer has a different approach and while the principles of riding are the same at the end of the day each trainer is a bit different in how they achieve those principles, which principles they focus on and in which order (and yes, unfortunately some trainers can just be bad trainers!). I have generally found that green riders get confused and frustrated when taking from two (or more trainers). They inevitably run into the classic dilema of "I'm confused, trainer X told me to do it this way but trainer Y said to do it this way." It's always good to shop around and try a few folks to make sure you fine a trainer that works for you but settle with one. As you progress, I would totally recommend seeking out clinics and things like that to get the perspective and benefits of an outside trainer but it's important to have that home base trainer that knows your history, weaknesses, etc.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks. That's what I'm hoping to do. My dilemma is that my friends, who talked me into starting this crazy hobby/obsession, live far from me. The place we ride together is between our two homes so that we can do a group lesson together, but I feel I need a bit more than this. So my hope is to establish a relationship with an instructor that's closer to me for private lessons, but continue the group lessons with my friends. Still looking for the right instructor for the private lessons, though. There aren't that many options that are within a half-hour drive from me (I live in Sacramento).


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Just bringing this up again because I have another question. I've found a trainer I think I like, but she doesn't think the barn has any horses for lease. I'm very reluctant to just settle for a trainer because the barn has a horse, because I've already experienced some bad trainers (on cell phone the whole time, etc.) and I like this one's methods so far. However, I don't think I can afford to pay a full lease and full board so that my leased horse can be at the barn where the trainer is. Is there a reasonable solution to this or do I just wait until that barn has a horse for me? I know they do have leases there from time to time because their website shows three horses for lease, but I guess they are no longer available.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

You could still try a free lease (taking over expenses) as an 'offsite lease'.

There will be far fewer horses available for an offsite lease; however, this may be a good time of year to try. As there may be students who have gone away from their hometown for college who have been unsuccessful at finding a leaser for their horse at their home barn.

You might try local 4-H clubs for leads.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

If there is a trainer you really click with, I'd wait. 
I didn't go through to the beginning of the thread--but is there a reason in particular you want to lease? You could always up the number of lessons per week, if you're just looking to ride more. At least, in the meantime~


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## huntergirl84 (Aug 30, 2009)

Yes, you are definitely wise to choose a trainer because she is a good fit for you, not because she has a horse to lease! I would say take lessons and enjoy the school horses that your trainer puts you on---getting on a variety of horses is never bad! Sounds like she may eventually have a horse there that is for lease so will be worth the wait. 

In the meantime, I'd say you have a few options in terms of getting riding time outside of lessons 1) Continue your half lease at the other barn but don't take lessons there, just practice what you've learned and enjoy the horse! 2) Ask your trainer if she or anyone at the barn ever just needs their horse/s exercised and if so could you help with that. Sometimes trainers need help schooling or exercising their horses if they can't get to them all and some boarders (due to injury, vacation, work, etc) can't get out to ride their horse consistently and/or for a period of time and thus riding their horse would be a favor AND an opportunity for you to get some more time in the saddle. That said, this is normally offered to more experienced riders which it may be you aren't quite at that level yet but it can't hurt to ask, 3) Not sure what the situation with your half lease is but you could consider asking the owner if they'd be willing to move the horse to this farm where your trainer is. Might could entice them by saying what a great trainer there is there, perhaps board is cheaper, you could get out and check on the horse on days you aren't riding if the owner can't get out, etc?? 4) You might ask your trainer if she knows of any other students interested in sharing a half lease so that you two could share a horse and split the expense. If you do this, I'd get your trainers opinion of this person and speak with this person, watch them ride, etc to make sure that you felt you could work well with this other person, that they were responsible and reliable (both as it relates to paying the lease AND providing care to the horse) and see that your expectations of care, riding, and scheduling of these things were the same. Obviously you are not tied to the person contractually in any way but you are sharing a horse that you will likely come to care for so you want to make sure that there is a good partnership there and that neither would potentially jeopardize the lease with the owner. If you find that someone, you could see if the owner of your current lease would be interested in sending the horse to your farm to the both of you (make sure you sign separate, half-lease agreements and don't sign jointly on a full lease) OR you could locate a different horse whose owner is willing to let them move.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Zexious said:


> If there is a trainer you really click with, I'd wait.
> I didn't go through to the beginning of the thread--but is there a reason in particular you want to lease? You could always up the number of lessons per week, if you're just looking to ride more. At least, in the meantime~


Mainly because that's getting expensive, and if I'm going to spend that kind of money every week I'd like to be able to ride the horse more than an hour per session if I choose. I want and need to ride more than I'm currently riding. 

I'll still be taking lessons, but probably not the two per week I'm taking now, and instead I'd ride several times a week between lessons instead of just for two hours a week. I think I'll do better and get more out of my lesson time if I practice between lessons. Does that make sense?


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

anndankev said:


> You could still try a free lease (taking over expenses) as an 'offsite lease'.
> 
> There will be far fewer horses available for an offsite lease; however, this may be a good time of year to try. As there may be students who have gone away from their hometown for college who have been unsuccessful at finding a leaser for their horse at their home barn.
> 
> You might try local 4-H clubs for leads.


This is what I've been thinking, too. I want to wait until I'm sure this is the trainer I'll stay with, though. This is complicated by the fact that I have two friends I ride with who live far from me, we meet in the middle, and they are looking at a different barn with only two lesson horses. The trainer I'm starting to like only has one. None of us are happy with the regular place we've been taking lessons. 

We may end up taking separate lessons but hacking together on weekends, and that may mean I'll have to trailer the horse I lease. Or I may end up having to trailer the leased horse to do group lessons with the other trainer, if my friends like her. So I think I need to wait a bit more and figure out how it all settles out for the three of us before I start looking around, though I find it hard to wait. I'll ask about boarding costs at my lesson next week.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

It does make sense--I was just curious.

How proficient of a rider are you? If the school has enough/too many school horses, trainers will often let the more advanced students hack their horses. I did this for years before owning.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Zexious said:


> It does make sense--I was just curious.
> 
> How proficient of a rider are you? If the school has enough/too many school horses, trainers will often let the more advanced students hack their horses. I did this for years before owning.


Not that proficient yet. The old barn had me walking, trotting, posting and we'd just started cantering on a lunge line, but I still feel I need to work harder to get my seat right so wasn't really comfortable with that, though getting better at it. 

The new trainer is showing me a lot of things that are really useful but we're working slowly and refining what I've already learned with a lot more subtle instruction, which is giving me more confidence. 

I think what you suggest would be something to aspire to a bit further down the road. Right now what I need is a schoolmaster that I can trust to be gentle but responsive. Looking at been there-done that horses for sale all the time but I don't want to buy a horse while I'm still this green because I know my needs will change after I have a lot more time in the saddle.


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