# Assertive vs. Aggressive



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

that;s a good question. I am often so assertive that I get the reaction from the horse that would be what he'd do to aggressiveness.

I know that aggressiveness will often have a more emotional component to it, and that can be fear and anger, and I mean that on the part of the human (creating an emotional reaction in the horse).

I think assertiveness just really means being very clear about what you want frm the horse, and nothing else.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Sometimes you have be aggressive so that the horse understands assertive. For instance, the horse who rears and strikes. I would very aggressively correct that behavior so that, in the future, I would merely assert myself and the horse would know that behavior is not acceptable. When riding, a horse throws its head when you take contact with its mouth, you may have to ride through that aggressively so that later on, you take contact and the horse knows that throwing its head will have consequences. Once you're at that point, you assert your wish to the horse and the horse complies. It can be as simple as just setting your hands a few times to let the horse bang itself in the mouth and to learn that when its head drops the contact can loosen or it can be a pretty stiff fight, going back to ground work and re-bitting the horse. You want to ride somewhat assertively all the time, but aggressive riding should be reserved for when the horse ups the ante.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

There are times when assertive isn't enough, then aggressive needs to be used to get the point across, then usually after that assertive is enough to do the job.

The big thing for the handler/rider is know the difference and when/how to use them.

Also when the rules are set ( using aggressive if you have to ) you need to be consistent as well for assertive to work well.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Assertive is saying, "No, you may not just walk in the front door of my house, you need to knock.". Aggressive is, "If you walk in my front door without knocking first, I'll shoot you.".


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

if you are assertive in the right amount, you hardly ever need to go to aggressive.
The need for 'aggressive occurs because little things were let slip, until they became major issues. 
In other words, to use the old maximum again,\be as gentle with a horse as possible, but also as firm as needed, to make that horse a good citizen"
Aggressive is wrong, when you go to maxium, never giving a horse a chance to respond to the lightest aid first
For instance, if a horse responds to a light leg aid,you don't , go to the spur first


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## sayazeleznik (Oct 31, 2016)

so can being assertive be interpreted as aggressive to the horse? When I'm assertive i'm never angry, i'm just scared that the horse thinks i'm being aggressive towards him...


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

You will need to go into detail a bit, far as example.
The assertiveness has to match the action, in order to be fair.
You have to know the right balance to use, and it is equally bad to either be too assertive,or not enough, thus ineffectual


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

sayazeleznik said:


> so can being assertive be interpreted as aggressive to the horse? When I'm assertive i'm never angry, i'm just scared that the horse thinks i'm being aggressive towards him...


Sure, yes. It's not a bad thing.

Have you ever watched a boss mare out in a herd? She'll tell others to get out of her way, not be so close, etc. and boy can she be mean about it. If they don't listen when she pins her ears and swishes her tail, she'll double barrel them. Often a boss horse will get their point across fast, hard, aggressive, mean, whatever you want to call it, and they will do this one time the first time and not have to do it again.

When we work with horses, this is one of the things good horse handlers/riders/trainers will recreate. It's not something that you need to do often-it *shouldn't* be something that you need to do often with most horses. It is far better to get mean one time and then be firm but fair, nice, and calm the rest of the time, rather than to nag at a horse.

As far as aggressive vs. assertive, I feel that aggressive only applies to an uncalled for, uncontrolled explosion of emotion and anger that lacks rational thought and reason.
I've had very very very few times where this has happened, but I'm pretty sure that's what people refer to as seeing red. I always felt horrible afterwards and apologized profusely to the horse in a variety of ways (grooming, a few treats, easy training sessions, etc.) Thankfully I never did any lasting damage to the horse, mentally or physically, when those few times did happen.

So no, your horse does not think you are being 'aggressive' (referring to my definition above) to him when you assert yourself and his boundaries. It makes him more comfortable actually, because he can put his trust in you to be the leader and decide what's dangerous, rather than him try to lead and take care of both of you. It takes a lot of pressure off his mind.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

In my mind, the horse is the one who decides what is assertive vs aggressive.
I've been around horses you could yell at and swat with a crop and they'd be standing there blinking, not even noticing you were trying to get their attention. At the opposite end of the spectrum are horses that will panic if your tone of voice sounds firm, back up six steps and stand with their eyes rolling. I have a "baseline" that is somewhere in the middle, with my voice and posture. If a horse does not respond, I ramp things up. If the horse over responds, I tone things down until the horse understands my meaning but does not react too strongly. A good trainer will be flexible and change their intensity based on the sensitivity of the horse they are working with.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I can't put my finger on it, but I do not think they are simply a matter of one being a notch or two higher on a quantitative scale. meaning, one is not just a greater amount of the same thing; aggressiveness is not just more assertiveness. 
there is some fine difference between them that is not merely how MUCH of it exists.

there is something about the intent of the person. an assertive person is exerting dominance or influence over something that is , in some way, rightfully theirs. an Aggressive action moves into more of one wherein the aggressor trespasses into what belongs, on some inate way, to the other person.

exactly how that translates to humans and horses is very hard to deliniate, but I have seen horsemen who work horses without any aggression, yet are very firm. they are the ones that the horse comes away from the session without any 'damage' to it's spirit.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I think the OP is not so concerned with the exact dictionary terms she used, but rather is seeking a balance in handling her horse, that is based partly on a common fear many have,esp those not that experienced with hroses, of using any firmness with a horse, because the horse then might not 'like/love them.
Yes, aggressive implies unwarranted attack, in my mind, while assertive implies more standing your ground,being clear, versus ambiguous.

In practical example, the aggressive use of a spur, would be to skip asking the horse with light leg contact, and instead go tot he spur, and in an aggressive manner, just slamming that spur into the horse.
Assertive use of the leg, would be to apply light leg, horse does not respond,, add more leg. Still no response, just roll spur lightly against side. Still no response, press spur-horse responds-take leg off. In other words, you are assertive enough until the hrose responds, then you reward

Ineffective would be horse does not listen to light leg, pins ears, and the rider thinks, 'horssy does not want to move', so I will quit asking, so hossy does not get mad at me.

Pain and lack of training, ruled out of course

Horses are fine with clear and fair boundaries, and it all boils down to being as gentle with a horse as possible, but also as firm as needed, to make that horse a good citizen. A good citizen is a useful member of society, that respects rules of society


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I like gottatrot's definition -- it's in the mind of the horse. 

But also I think that, internally, it is about intent. Assertive is: I determine our trajectory, not you. We will go at a pace you can assimilate and understand, but we will go in the direction I ask you to. Aggressive is: I'm done asking, I'm commanding, and I mean now! 

We aren't going to "and now I lost my temper and I'm taking it out on you." 

Sometimes aggression is needed but as Smilie says, for an educated mannerly horse this is going to be a rare event.

I tend to let things slowly slip without noticing and then I have to go boss mare just to set up the first principles again (like 'watch where you put your big fat feet, I am breakable down here'!).

I don't know about anybody else's horse, but mine is one who needs reminding all the time that she doesn't make the rules. Not aggressive, just assertive.


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