# Please Critique Possible Purchase



## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

We are looking at this 7 year old breeding stock paint mare for possible trade with a gelding on our property. Believe it or not, she is black; her reddish winter coat has already started. Her left front leg is conformationally very incorrect due to some injury or damage during her growth (The vet's assumtion of what is most likely).

The vet has passed her as sound for riding of any sort we would be doing. The vet said that the leg is not a characteristic that should be factored into breeding her or not because it is not something that would be passed. 

Please help me analyze her as a riding horse, and a possible mare to be bred to my paint stallion (top photo and in my avatar). 

I don't have her squared up quite right in the pictures, and the lighting is not the best - do what you can with the photos


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## Frog (May 24, 2007)

body wise she looks fairly well put together, though lacking a lot of muscle tone/topline.

As you say she would need a lot of corrective trimming/shoeing as she is very incorrect in the angle of her feet and needs to be brought more upright.

She's a little bit thick in the throat, but that could be my ignorance of the breed.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Her front hoofs angle is very low comparable to the leg (it should of look like it's continuation). However it can be bad trim (or bad pic too.). 

Other than that she looks nice (doesn't look very happy though).


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

She is a bit timid/nervous, but very gentle. She suffered some severe abuse at a trainer who attached 4 tractor tires with rims to her to break her to saddle (hence the white scar on her side). After all that, I can tell that she still really wants to please. She was too much for the novice owner who sent her to the abusive trainers, and so the current trainers (friends of mine) bought her (traded for a more broke horse) and thought of me and my stallion. 

Now that my stallion is mostly "finished", I would have the time to resart her really slowly and gently from the beginning, and start building a trust relationship with humans again. 

I think corrective trimming will really help her angles over all, but that front left will never be perfect - it has problems in the pasturn and knee related to some other trauma or injury. As I said above though, the vet came last night and passed her as sound for riding/breeding. She actually has a beautiful reaching floaty trot 

I agree that she needs a lot of muscling - I think she has pretty much been sitting. 

Thanks for the feedback guys, Please keep it coming - I would rather hear it before a possible purchase than after.


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

I certainly wouldn't breed her, but I believe she could be a nice prospect for western pleasure.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Kristy, 
Why do you say you certainly would not breed her? I don't necessasrily disagree with that, but I would appreciate hearing your reasoning. I have been trying to determine whether or not she would be a good mare to breed, and a good mare to breed to our stallion. Everyone has reasons for doing and not doing things - and I could really use the outside perspective... I am too close to the situation to think 100% logically 

Like my stallion, any mare we buy will have the primary job as a riding horse not a breeding horse. But along the same line, any mare we buy, we want to have the potential to breed as well.

The vet is confident that her left foreleg is due to some injury or damage in her past based on the angles and locations, etc. The rest of her hoof angle problems are a result of years of trimming at extremely wrong angles. She has been trimmed once correctly (and there was great improvement), but it will take more time to get her corrected all the way. 

I have already gotten a soft spot for her because of her horrible history, and how sweet she still is. 

As far as riding goes, I would be looking at western pleasure, reining, western riding, trail, competitive trail riding, and dressage; maybe some english flat.

I really appreciate all of the feedback from you guys.


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

Is the mare registered? Does she have a show record? Any history?
Basically, you have a mare with an unknown history with major defects of the legs. Although your vet has said that it is probably not genetic, I would not take my chance. I am also very wary of your vet because he has cleared her for all riding. However, horses with the conformational flaw of having very long and/or sloping pasterns are at high risk of injury. Horses with this type of flaw are generally best for pleasure riding (including lower level dressage). In my opinion, she could probably do whatever work you asked of her right now, however, she will have the tendency to physically break down much more quickly if asked to do high performance work. This is not a good characteristic to pass to foals.
Aside from her legs, she is long in the back, has a very steep croup, a thick throat latch and not the most refined head, camps out a bit, and her neck ties in very low. 

I think she looks like a very sweet mare and by all means, I hope she finds a wonderful home. I can see how you'd become attached to her. But I really feel that she should not be bred. I think that she deserves to be able to have an easy life as a pleasure horse and a companion for someone to enjoy.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

She is registered APHA. She has no riding history except for some pretty bad training...She would certainly gain riding experience and a show record if we purchased her. I honestly wouldn't breed a mare in our barn until they had proven to be althetic and sound in mind and body anyway, but I was curious if the potential was there. 

I should clarify that the vet cleared her for the riding that I expressed I would want to be doing with her . He did say that he would not use her for serious barrel racing or like activities. 

Well, thank you for the very specific critiques. I actually thought the neck was tied in at an okay height?... I have a hard time telling when a back is long, unless it is really obvious, and I have yet to understand what a good croup looks like (I only see when people are pointing out bad ones - to steep, to short, to long...). The front pasterns, I see, but the slope looks to be greatly a result of bad trimming (look at the hoof) - I will be curious to see the improvement when her feet are trimmed correctly. 

I don't agree that she is camped out - I have her set up that way accidentally in the bottom picture. I also don't think that the pictures do her face justice - In person, it looks very femine and refined - she has had nothing trimmed on that face, so that might make take away from the appearance in the pictures. 

I am still working on getting an eye for correct conformation...That is why I asked for outside feedback on her photos. 

Thanks

I believe we will likely make the trade, and start preparing her for next show season. I don't think we will rule her out for breeding until we give her time to reach her riding potential (whatever that may be). I have no desire to breed a mare that is unproven or prone to lameness. Regardless of what she ends up doing, she will be loved, cared for, and not pushed beyond her abilities.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I forgot to mention that the breeding part of this may not even be an issue anyway because she has Impressive breeding, and I had to send off a sample of her hair for DNA tesing to see if she is HYPP positive or not. I should know about that in a little over a week.


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## *Bobbi Socks* (Aug 18, 2007)

Other than the leg, I think she looks great!
Nice body, 
You could proably do work with her and she'll warm up to you.
She looks like, and sounds like she could be a great horse with work.
Bobbi was timid, and nervous around me, but I kept staying around, and walked in the pasture a little bit, and now she loves me, and don't want me to leave her, plus she is my only one right now.

-Bobbi


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## krazi_katie (Aug 23, 2007)

she is a very nice mare and i think you should go for it and buy her.

i just dont understand how someone could ever do that to a horse!!

it makes me soooooooooooooooooo mad what some people do to animals and horses!

good luck with gentling her and keep updating on her progress if you decide to buy


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## prettypalfrey (Mar 12, 2007)

Just be careful if you are purchasing her. I would send her for x-rays to check her feet. My horse has the same problems with her pasturns (spelling?) Now I have to have corrective shoing light work. Its painful for them as well.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Thank you everyone for the feedback. After much time thinking and spent with her, we did decide to pass on her. There were just too many what ifs, and that is not ideal for breeding or performance. 

The barn that has her now should do well rehabilitating her and then finding her a more fitting permanant home.


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