# When to Geld a stud colt?



## smrobs

IMHO, the best time to geld is as soon as they drop. Personally, I'd do it now before it starts getting really warm and the flies start getting thick.


----------



## Kayella

Like Smrobs said, if he's dropped now, do it now. My boy was gelded last January when he was almost 10 months old. I couldn't get him gelded soon enough! Dropping coupled with his brain damage turned him into a bit of a monster, but he was back to his sweet old self the day after his coin purse was emptied. :wink: 

Now or late fall is the best time when flies are not out, and when the horses feel cool enough to get a lot of exercise.


----------



## Aesthetic

I'm definitely worried about the heat. We are at 70 degrees to 75 right now which isn't TOO hot. I have always sold my colts before gelding so this will be my first experience gelding a colt. I had a stud gelded a while back but he had ZERO issues. 
I'm going to talk to the vets and see if they can make a barn visit to geld before it gets hot. If not I guess I'll have to wait :/


----------



## PaintHorseMares

Aesthetic said:


> I'm definitely worried about the heat. We are at 70 degrees to 75 right now which isn't TOO hot.


Although cooler temps help with any swelling, it's mainly about flies that can infect/lay eggs in the cut. If the flies aren't bad, I would do it as soon as possible.


----------



## Aesthetic

PaintHorseMares said:


> Although cooler temps help with any swelling, it's mainly about flies that can infect/lay eggs in the cut. If the flies aren't bad, I would do it as soon as possible.


We get flies like crazy out here. We haven't yet so I'm hoping to castrate him within a month. I'll call tomorrow to see if they do a field castration. He has a "stud" attitude and he's a bit ill mannered and he mounts my mares and has already began herding them. He's almost ten months old -__-


----------



## NdAppy

If he's mounting the mares, you might want to pregnancy check them at the same time... A young colt CAN impregnate mares if his testicles have dropped.

ETA since he is mounting mares, I would separate him from them like yesterday.


----------



## rookie

I agree with the others, that like yesterday was a good time to geld him. You want to avoid freezing temperatures and flies. A little heat so he moves around and keep him away from mares for about 8 weeks after he is gelded. It takes about six for the hormones to reduce and he could still have a swimmer or two floating around his system. 

We have a mare that is the result of a brood mare being left out with a stud colt who was "too young to get the job done". He wasn't and he did.


----------



## SueC

We come from a family that bred performance horses and we gelded our colts as late as possible, generally around 3. This obviously meant special management, like we had to run them in simulated "bachelor herds" or separate them with hot wires, but chest development is really impeded by early gelding, as is a whole raft of developmental processes which benefit from testosterone.

My current riding horse is a rather extreme example, gelded at age 12 after retiring from racing use with that side of my family. I got him as a stallion and wanted to run him with other horses without getting offspring, plus he was too snarky to other horses and people as a stallion. Six months after gelding most of the aggression had come off him, and he was carefully integrated with the herd (two ancient horses and three donkeys). He's a super work horse and has done very well going into the herd: Very happy. And people were saying beforehand that he was way too dangerous to ever integrate!

Here he is (the dark horse running with the grey mare) on the day the donkeys arrived:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8HJ98cNsmY

I had a chat to a specialist equine veterinarian friend about whether late gelding is a greater operation risk than early, and he said no. Obviously the longer you leave it, the more assertive a horse you will end up with after gelding.

For the purposes of most people though, the nice square frame and extra courage of a late-gelded horse probably wouldn't be worth the extra hassle of having to deal with them going through puberty. It's certainly much simpler management-wise to geld them early.


----------



## dbarabians

My 10 month old colt mounted his mother and so did his half brother. Neither attempted to mount any other mares or their own half sisters. Their dam was not impregnated. Colts mimic adults when they play. 

Cassius is 22 months old and at the trainers. A mare is stabled right next to him and when she is in heat winks and flirts with him. He shows no interest ....YET. I purchased him at 14 months and he had dropped already. He was pastured with 10 mares and several fillies. None are pregnant.

You can geld at an early age. In fact I have heard it is more beneficial to.

However in the 30+ years I have bred horses and the decades my family before me, we have never had a colt under 18 months show any inclination to breed.
We pasture our foals with their dams and siblings well past 12 months of age.
It depends on how early a colt matures to determine when they realize they are intact. The earlier in the year a colt is born the earlier their coming 2 yo spring from my observations they become sexually mature. Shalom


----------



## Aesthetic

He mounts momma, the other mare will run his butt into the ground as soon as he comes near. He mounts but he has no idea what he's doing. He either slides off the side or can't even reach. 
He's separated. Him and mom are in two desperate pens. He will be used for either barrel racing or roping depending on his height. His sire was 16.1 and his dam is 15.2. Right now he's sitting at about 14.3. 
He isn't worrying me too much with his attitude right now, he knows he's a big boy too. 
I'm not worried about him "breeding" my mares. I wouldn't be worried until he gets tall enough to actually reach his destination and old enough to realize what it is. 
I'd like to let his neck and chest fill out. I have a thing for stud like mares and geldings, in their looks (; 
Let me post a few pics


----------



## Aesthetic

Mind my nastiness. My height is 5'6. I'm aware of the tennis shoes, my poor boots are plastered in clay....


----------



## SueC

I second that post by DB Arabians. My family didn't have to separate the colts they bred before 18 months either.


----------



## trailhorserider

If you didn't see this thread it might be worth reading:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/theoretical-age-geld-380394/

I personally think most of conformation is genetic. I gelding my colt at 5 months and he is a tank. But he is also my only foal so I don't have the experience of someone who breeds horses regularly.


----------



## dbarabians

If you are going to geld him anyway then why not geld him early?
From those pictures, and I might be wrong, that is not a colt I would consider stallion material.
A thick neck is not desirable for most disciplines. If you want a performance prospect then I would geld early. Why waste the feed you put into him developing muscles and charateristics you dont need nor want?
A 2 or 3 year old stallion is far different than a yearling or long yearling.
Think long term here. Think about the value of the colt in the future. 
That should be the determining factor on when and if to geld. 
My former post was to refute the claims of colts not even a year old reproducing. It might happen but if it does it is rare. From my experience most colts and fillies show no signs of sexual maturity until their second year.
Gelding a colt simply because he is play acting is unnecessary IMO. Shalom


----------



## Ace80908

My vet says early gelding will result in taller horses ... have no idea how such a thing is proven, but I gelded mine at 8 months just because I wanted him to be able to work him when the weather improved, and getting the wolf teeth pulling/gelding out of the way seemed easiest.


----------



## stevenson

If he is dropped, do it now before the flies attack.


----------



## SueC

Ace80908 said:


> My vet says early gelding will result in taller horses ... have no idea how such a thing is proven...


Possibly, the higher testosterone levels of ungelded colts make the epiphyseal growth plates close a little early. I would doubt the effect would be as significant as with adolescent gym junkies doing steroids (as most gym junkies are ungelded also :wink: and are taking synthetic hormones on top of what they produce naturally).

One thing I have seen are studies that show that *on average*, (i.e. lots of individual variation exists, but this is a trend from pooled data), viewed from the side, stallions have a "square" frame (if you draw a box around the horse's body excluding neck), mares a long-rectangular frame, and (early gelded) geldings an upright-rectangular frame. There's height in the equation, but a big difference appears to be in the shoulders and chest too - which if you consider the analogy of secondary sexual characteristics in humans, would make a lot of sense. The prized castrato opera singers of yore, and the harem-guarding eunuchs, just didn't have the same chest development as men who were not "cut" for such professions. (Apologies to you guys if this has you crossing your legs.)

DB Arabian post: I guess it depends on what characteristics you find more desirable for your particular discipline. We know that late-cut geldings tend to be broader than early-cuts, have a more square frame and better muscular development, (plus have a somewhat more arched neck especially if gelded after full maturity around 5), and we have a strong anecdotal vibe that late-cut geldings perform better athletically in terms of more strength, more stamina, and more never-say-die attitude mentally. Stallions fare even better in the latter characteristics - lots of people are doing dressage and show-jumping at high levels with stallions, the great Hickstead was a stallion, etc.

Of course there are also lots of great athletic early-gelded geldings out there - geldings, as well as mares, do produce a fair bit of testosterone in their adrenal glands, and in some disciplines, and especially with heavy-set breeds, it may be an advantage to have a lighter frame and lighter front.


----------



## PaintHorseMares

Ace80908 said:


> My vet says early gelding will result in taller horses ... have no idea how such a thing is proven, ...


Just for amusement because this has not been my experience, but there is an old saying (about gelding early) that once a stud colt gets the scent of a mare in season in his nose, he'll never be the same again... ;-)


----------



## Aesthetic

I've heard the height thing too. 

dBarabians: he obviously isn't stallion material, hence why I'm gelding him. There is more than one reason to geld. He's a nice looking colt and for a paint has lovely conformation so far. I do have the facility to keep a stallion and I'm more worried about his attitude than playing. 

His mom is a thick mare and his sire is a fairly.. Tall and thick stallion. Seeing him now, I think he will be a nice size when grown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dbarabians

Aesthetic said:


> I've heard the height thing too.
> 
> dBarabians: he obviously isn't stallion material, hence why I'm gelding him. There is more than one reason to geld. He's a nice looking colt and for a paint has lovely conformation so far. I do have the facility to keep a stallion and I'm more worried about his attitude than playing.
> 
> His mom is a thick mare and his sire is a fairly.. Tall and thick stallion. Seeing him now, I think he will be a nice size when grown.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did not intend for my post to be insulting. I cannot take good pictures and all my arabians appear to be drafts in them. That is why I posted I might be wrong.
I have never had a colt gelded before the age of 2. 
Sue C if one uses a horse for racing, barrel racing, western pleasure, a thicker horse is not desirable.
Roping, jumping, cow work those muscles might come in handy. Shalom


----------



## Aesthetic

I'm unsure of what he will be in the future. At 14.3 I have no idea what his height will be at maturity. 
I've seen some.... Very thick horses make EXTREMELY good barrel horses. The bigger the booty, the more power is what we say. If he's very tall I will probably whim English again. Taller horses have a harder time turning unless you can train them the right way. 

He's a very nice looking colt, but I don't want to keep him a stallion. No lie he's be a great stud! I personally love his conformation though I'm new to it, and his bloodlines are... Good not PHENOMENAL. but as mentioned above stallions should produce offspring that OUTDO themselves. Comparing this colt to his sire, he seems better in build, and hopefully this colt can go further than his sire as a gelding. 

My personal preference is a thicker horse, not in neck but shoulder and butt I suppose. He's inherited his mothers muscle, I've never seen his father at his peak. 

I'm trying to call today, seeing if they can make a field call and to what expense. I'm recently back to working with him after an injury. Time away had definitely taken its toll on the poor boy. He isn't all that social, like his dam xD


----------



## BlueSpark

In my experience, most colts don't notice mares till they are older, but some do, and I have seen the result of "he's to young to breed, he's just mounting for fun". I also think it depends on the dam and herd. In a balanced herd a colt will be tuned in, and

I have also noticed the differences in gelding late. I had a Clydesdale gelding that was gelded at 5, and you would never, ever know he was a stallion. In contrast, I know a percheron that was gelded at 2 and is a dominant, studish, bossy handful, his owners sincerely wish they had gelded him as soon as possible instead of waiting. He looks more "stud-y", but that hardly makes up for the annoyance of dealing with stud like behaviours on a gelding. And its not just him. Draft cross gelded late, appy, qh, paint, for every late gelded horse that is fine I have seen one that retained stud like behaviours that are really annoying.

I geld between 9 months and two, depending on when the colt drops and his general behaviour/health. Usually around a year. I like the fall or very early spring, when the bugs are dead and the ground is not too muddy.


----------



## Elizabeth Bowers

My Appy gelding was gelded at 1yr, and he's a farm chunk, but so was his dam at 15.3hh, and as wide as a love seat, and just as comfortable, his sire on the other hand barely 15hh, and as round as a 55gal drum, and not at all comfortable to ride, but super sweet. Shadow looks just like his dam, he's only 15hh, and he's quite wide, if he were registered i think my mom would have kept him a stud, he's got nice confo (for a backwoods bred app), and great temperament, and his parent stock was known for throwing color, though grey ended up bein a dominant one. I'm happy with him as a gelding.
My colt on the other hand was gelded late , he was 2y 8mos old, and he was separated from the herd to stay with my gelding when he turned about 10 months old. My inlaws tried to convince me to keep him a stud and "make money from him", i didn't know his bloodlines, his dam is a bit lacking, and aggressive, and totally untrained, and i have no idea who his sire is. SO i gelded him, and they were pretty upset, but he was MY HORSE, MY DECISION. He got a little studly once in a while, my neighbors mare when in heat would come and visit us, my gelding showed more interest in her, than my colt did. I was impressed. Now that he's gelded i don't have any issues with his random attitude. I was kind of glad i waited, i didn't like how he was so "finely" built in my OP, i like him now how he filled out a good bit. I would have gladly gelded him sooner, but i wanted him to bulk up, so i waited. Even the vet said he looked good for his age, and was impressed with his strength (he lifted all 4 of us up off the ground during his gelding procedure). 

I think your little colt, will make a fine gelding, the seem to live a much simpler life, and are more laid back. If your not huge into the breeding game, geld, there are enough horses out there needing homes from "backyard breeders", and geldings seem to find homes easier than studs. They say it depends on when you geld them, some will gain more height as they grow, than a stud will, but i'm not sure thats true. Best of luck with your little guy!! He's cute, and flashy!!


----------



## Aesthetic

Thank you!! I'm not big in the breeding game, but I had some plans on him if he were a stallion. 
He's a colt I bred for training raising and sentimental value, so he WILL NOT go unless he absolutely must. I know my mare who had him probably won't have any other foals, and when she goes I'd like to have her baby to keep. If i can get a foal out of her in a few years, awesome. She's 14 and I'm hesitant on breeding older mares. 
I know he will have an easier life as a gelding, I have never trained a stallion unless he was already broke with good manners. I don't want to have a stud with good potential and ruin him, so it's great to geld him.


----------



## Celeste

I had a mare that got pregnant due to being in the pasture with a 14 month old colt. 

The idea on gelding making the horse end up taller comes from the fact that testosterone causes the growth plates to close. I don't know if their are any real studies out there proving that they will get taller gelded early. It is just an assumption based on the physiology. There are other factors involved in height such as genetics and nutrition. 

I have gelded at 3 and I have gelded at 8 months. In each case, the horses were well filled out and grew nicely. 

There is no way I will put up with another stallion until age 3 if he will be gelded eventually. That is 2 years of his life and yours that will be miserable.


----------



## SueC

dbarabians said:


> Sue C if one uses a horse for racing, barrel racing, western pleasure, a thicker horse is not desirable. Roping, jumping, cow work those muscles might come in handy. Shalom


Unless you have an exceptionally heavy breed, a wide chest in a horse is totally useful for racing (both TB and SB), barrel racing, and endurance. A heavy neck less so, but a stallion in racing / endurance / jumping fitness rarely has that much of a crest on him; neither does a late-cut gelding.

The width of the chest determines how much room there is for heart and lungs - and the more efficiently you can re-oxygenate your blood when exercising, the better. The wider the chest, the more intrinsically stable your horse will be, which is great for things like barrel racing. My gelded-at-maturity riding horse is as wide as a tank and the most foot-sure horse I've ever been on. He also has a lot more endurance than most other horses he rides with.

My Arabian mare was one of those Polish lines where some mares are built like stallions. She was as wide as a tank herself, with a big cresty neck, and she was strong, but not a "heavy" horse per se. She excelled at endurance, slalom racing, barrel racing etc.

My father races SBs and his best horses all have exceptionally wide chests.

Maybe I'm dealing with lighter horse breeds than you guys in the US. I can see why you'd perhaps want a lighter frame on horses that aren't TB, SB, Arabian etc.


----------



## Aesthetic

SueC that sounds very interesting. I've never really thought about it that way. 
I'm working with my colt now for trust, handling, and loading. So as soon as he can get on the trailer he will hauled to the vet and cut! if it's too hot when he's ready, I may wait until it cools off


----------



## dbarabians

The barrel racers that I see here in Texas and are 4-1D barrel horses are not heavily muscled. They are lean and built for speed. They must be agile . They do have a powerful rear but I have never seen one with a thick neck excel Shalom


----------



## BlueSpark

> The width of the chest determines how much room there is for heart and lungs - and the more efficiently you can re-oxygenate your blood when exercising, the better. The wider the chest, the more intrinsically stable your horse will be, which is great for things like barrel racing


 not just the width, also the depth. Perhaps the sport that uses the most lung capacity, horse racing, breeds horses that are on the narrower side, but with deep chests.

and the "intrinsically" stable bit is relative. That's like saying a pick up truck has a wider wheel base than a motor bike, so it will be more stable around corners. Its true, but its ALOT slower and less maneuverable. Perhaps the ideal vehicle for speed would be something like a Ferrari, Which would be more stable than the bike and faster and more maneuverable than the truck. Its all give and take, and I have personally ridden horses with very wide chests and found them less stable, less enduring and slower than my very narrow arab.

I have never personally noticed a difference in width between a stallion and a gelding, although I do think the height thing has some merit.


----------



## Aesthetic

DBarabians - the horses where I run, there are horses with very wide chests and thick stocky bodies run 1D


----------



## dressagebelle

On the height thing, I've heard it's because the testosterone promotes muscles more than growing taller, and if you geld early, there isn't the testosterone that's working more on building muscle, so the horse gets a little taller. No idea how true that is, it's just what I've heard. Around here, all the barrel racers are well muscled, but not really thick and wide. I've actually seen a lot of running quarter horses, and TB quarter crosses used for barrel racing. You thin down the quarter horse a bit, get the speed of the tb, and the big motor of a quarter horse. That being said, I've seen horses excel in disciplines they were definitely not bred for, so conformation is just part of the equation. Personally for me, any horses I may breed, unless the colts are getting extremely unruly, I will geld around 2 or 3. But that's just my personal preference. Everyone has a different opinion, and different wants/needs, that will determine when they decide to geld.


----------

