# How to configure my barn?



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Done correctly concrete does *not* hurt a horse.
You need to bed stalls and bed them correctly, clean them correctly.
In areas of wet, freeze and massive thaw quickly a concrete base can give your horse a place to rest in dry and warmth of dry bedding not soaked, a place to dry their hooves, a place where the damp that seeps into everything is kept at bay...

I worked with horses that were the pinnacle of the show world who lived on concrete base stalls...
None of those animals were adversely effected and were sound as can be...
They had a few hours a day of t/o, daily riding and then they were stalled and happy in those stalls as it was their safe place and happy to be in relaxing, resting and chilling out as they chose to watch the world pass by their stall window and door...
The secret of concrete base stalls is proper bedding of stalls, period.

The same is said of dirt floored stalls...
Proper bedding and cleaning is a must.
Weather conditions you will deal with in Michigan of wet and thaw and freezing conditions.

How you decide to make the use of a building of this size utilizing space efficiently, safely and with ease of maintaining what you build inside and out will make making a barn a joy or a chore to keep...
Plan carefully for what is comfortable for you, your physical abilities and needs.
Storage is a premium so is working space...:think:..how to make the most of what you have.
:runninghorse2:...


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I'd use the dirt side with a good base of lime screenings on it for the horses and the concrete floor section for a tack/feed room.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

All the stalls that I've been at have ALL been concrete (uk, london). The key was to always put a rubber mat down and then nice bedding. Some yards actually had a concrete base and then a wooden floor over it AND mats to keep it water proof. Very cozy. 

I would use rubber mats over concrete for where it'll get soiled. Seriously I cannot think of anything worse than having to maintain a dirt stall. Maybe in some climates or where the horses are out mostly its ok but not if its gonna be a regular thing - just my uneducated opinion. But then I like to be able to clean a stall thoroughly and think it'd be pretty hard to maintain on an uneven porous surface. What if I need to thoroughly disinfect it because infection? What if horse has an injury or open wound and will be in it for ages? I'm paranoid as you can probably tell 

Buuuuut if your horses have a run in shelter elsewhere and it's unlikely they are gonna be stalled regularly or for long periods then do what you want I think. If in the worst case scenario you had to shuffle things around at a later date you always could do. But long-term use on a porous surface? No from me. Maybe you can use the concrete side as a wash/grooming section during bath weather and it'll be semi-free as a stall if needed? Rubber mats are important ofc imo. 

And congratulations I'm jealous!


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

All of the livery yards, riding schools and my stables had concrete bases. There was one exception, a Victorian building, which had a sunken, cobbled floor; it was nightmare to keep clean. 

None of them used mats, some had straw and others shavings, but the horses were perfectly healthy. 

I agree with @*horselovinguy* , the key is a good, deep, clean bed. My beds were at least a foot deep. Some had a complete muckout every day, others were on the deep litter system. They had the wet and droppings lifted but the beds were left intact, then, once or twice a week, the beds were lifted to the sides of the stables, the floors disinfected, before they were remade and new shavings added to replace what had been removed during the week.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Well —- do - you have - pictures of - the inside, lollol

Is the cement in a place where it would be feasible to make your work area, as that’s what I would do with it and put grid mats on top of it.

I would put limestone crush (or its Michigan relative) in the rest of the barn while it’s empty, level it out and decide on stall placement from there. After the crush is down, mats to me are imperative- you will never dig pee spots clear to China if you have mats.

I don’t bed more than 4-6 inches deep, except for banking the walls where I let that build up and strip it out a few times yearly. Rusty does good with a little deeper bedding but Joker’s broken back does not.

My barn is 24 x 40 so pretty much the same size as yours.

I have a small work space area that is L-shape. I have big plubber (plastic-rubber) cupboards from Lowe’s with two discontinued counter tops, sitting on top of them for my food prep and work space area. 

The 220 breaker box is above the counter so I would not have wasted space with a breaker box being in the way. There is also a fire extinguisher beside the breaker box which my insurance company was thrilled about

You need electric. We paid an electrician to run the cable underground from the house to the barn (~435’ if I am remembering correctly) and my genius husband wired the barn *putting all of the wiring in non-chewable conduit*

I have four stalls. Two are 12 x 14. The 13.3H Arab’s was 12 X 11. The run-in stall is an odd shaped 12 x 13 or 14. 

The run- in stall has a 10’ sliding door on the south side, and also a man door on its east side. It is not an ideal set up if one has horses they can’t trust, but - my - four - horses - never - did - anything - wrong, lollollol.

The other 10’ sliding door is at the other end, also on the south side, and is where the hay is stored.

I have pipe panel stalls. They started out as temporary but when I saw how much air circulated, I decided to keep them. They are great because you can quickly unbolt them from the barn posts and each other, if you want to reconfigure.

I have 3/4” treated plywood going up the sides about 2-1/2? Feet. Since my barn is metal is have oak kickboards lining the stalls to a height of about four feet.

I highly highly recommend an overhang. It has more advantages than you can think up. Mine is 24 X 20 and is NOT attached to the barn. That way if the wind would grab it, the barn won’t go with it. It is butt as close to the barn as possible, then “sealed” with fascia.

I only have a couple of outside fotos on this IPad and nothing of the inside. Here’s a couple outside pics to give you some idea. I need to go hunting on the desktop for the original fotos when the barn was still clean and cobweb-free, lollol

If you enlarge the foto, you can get some idea of how the run-install opens to a 24 X 100 paddock which, in turn, opens to the front pasture, which, in turn, opens to the main 15 or so acre pasture.

Also note that glorious overhang which was one of my smartest investments. 

FWIW, we have a yellow mercury light over the man door that we are responsible for. The white mercury light on the pole, below the barn, belongs to the power company. We pay them $6/month that includes any sort of maintenance the light may need. - even wind damage. Works for us, as we don’t have to climb extension ladders while jockeying parts and tools


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

So, how many horses do you have currently and are you planning on adding more to the herd?

Are you going to have another building for your hay storage as you must have plenty on hand for the duration of the bad weather months in that area are needed to be pre-planned for....
Knowing how many animals to plan forage for and whether you are doing squares, large or small or rounds is a must in figuring a configuration for a working floor plan of the structure.

I can also second having a overhang.. wide enough, long enough and sturdy enough angled to withstand your weather conditions as it can be used for hay storage or horse protection, farm equipment or your trailer to be protected from the fierce weather changes of that state...such handy space on a farm.
If that means incurring the cost to add a overhang, it is something to strongly consider and the placement of it as it can just offer so much for so little a expense added. How many "walls" would be most beneficial and are they partial wall, full wall or any combination of such...

So, are you using this building for multiple purposes or only as a barn, storage area and work area for caring for the horses??
or...
Is this needed to be multi-purposed of stalls, storage, grooming, feed and tack storage with any added trailer, farm tractor & implements kept as that can and will greatly influence a design needed to accommodate your needs..
How high is the barn? Is it lofted with a wide swinging door to access the loft for hay storage as is done often for making the most of a structure, is there a staircase or safe loft ladder for access to the upper level and what kind of area is there if those upper storage exist for dropping down of food, namely hay bales directly to where the horses are kept {stall drop doors} or into a central area where large quantity of hay is fed from....???
What is kept high then doesn't need to be accounted for in floor space accommodation...:think:
Is the barn fully loft floored so you could possibly make a second story tack storage area for out of season items or seldom used items in a easily made walled-off tack room used for blankets, special tack, extras of a myriad of things..this though using will depend upon egress of ladder or stairs what you can get up or down safely.
So many ideas and so much more needed to share to offer suggestions for space utilization...

If your barn is metal walled, where you dedicate space for the horses, be it stalls or large run-in please, please line that area with minimum of 1/2" thick plywood 4' high to protect them from kicking through a wall being sassy/cranky to each other....de-gloving a leg is one of the worst injuries to occur. :|
:runninghorse2:...


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

I’m not going to bother with interior barn pictures as your set up will end up different anyway, lol

I will say, it would be more efficient to have the stalls along one of the 40’ walls, if at all possible - the warmer wall. 

And hopefully you can utilize the cemented area for a work space area, some hay storage or maybe an area to store bagged shavings. I use the Arab’s stall for shavings most of the time.

If your barn is 20 x 40, you have 16 square feet less of storage space, than I have, to store hay. Unless the current shed is tall enough to make a partial second floor for hay storage, you could probably get 280 small squares stored as long as you only plan to have two horses

Also, I do not use stock tanks. I use 18 gallon tubs and switch them out in the winter for heated 18 gallon tubs that you can buy at TSC. Much easier to keep clean but may not be feasible in the UP.

These are outside fotos I took this early this morning, so the sun was not being helpful. These might at least give you some ideas of what makes the most sense for your set up and what does not.

Also, what about water? You will have to bury water lines a lot deeper up there, than down here and I’m not sure how trustworthy frost-free spigots would be if they don’t get covered with some type of insulation in the winter

20 X 24 overhang attached to the run-in stall








This is how we set up three of the four water stations.








I took this to show where DH attached the electric plug and ran it into the barn, under the window. The 220 breaker box is to the immediate right of the window. This is also where the counter workspace is, making use of what otherwise would have been wasted horse or hay space









This is mainly to see the plug for the two outside water stations. I believe in some cross-fencing, so there’s a small pasture between the paddock and the main of pasture. Think about having a sick Bay Area; they come in handy for more than a sick horse.








This is the ten foot door on the hay side of the barn. It is also Joker’s shelter when he is outside in his own six acres. He eats from hay stack during the day, which is no different than eating from a round bale, except there’s no mold or rat droppings.


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

Thanks for all the helpful advice! Keep it coming. @walkinthewalk thanks for the pictures. Very nice.

Only two horses, but of course I'll need to leave room for at least one more, lol. and maybe a goat or two?

I like the idea of an overhang. I mentioned that to DH and he agrees that is a good idea.

There is already water and electricity run underground to the barn so that part is taken care of. I will want better lighting than what is there now. DH can do that also.

I'll try to draw a picture later today......


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

Here is my pitiful attempt at a drawing of my barn-to-be. 

I'm sure we will be adding some windows and closing up the bay that is currently open- either with another door or with a solid wall.

I keep reminding myself I have months to figure this out. And you know, I haven't even thought about where my furniture is going inside the house. First things first!


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

That section of cement is a blessing.

1. You could stack hay there but put Visqueen and pallets on top of the cement.

2. You could make the back part your “kitchen” area that includes a countertop.

2.1. You could make the front part a wash rack.

2.2. You could also use part of that area to store bagged shavings.

3. I would not put stalls on the cement. I’m sorry to everyone but I’m against it, after seeing Duke stock up when he was young at boarding facility.

4. I am still in favor of keeping the stalls along one side. I am still in favor of pipe panel stalls and run 3/4” marine plywood up from the floor to about 3 feet, which is contrary to when I said two feet, after looking at my stalls, lollol

5. I am still in favor of getting a dump truck load of crush, while the barn is still empty, to amount to several inches and spread it out. 

Put mats down after the stalls go in so you aren’t digging pee spots clear to China over time.

6. If you cut for windows, put them across from each other for cross-ventilation. They can be in stalls but cover them with chicken wire. Use plexiglass, not real glass for windows.

7. I only have two plug areas. Each has four sockets. I wish I had one more four-socket plug just for convenience.

8. I have two overhead lights in my 24 x 40 barn. Three would have been whazoo but two works. I THINK they are halogens. They are 110 volt, very light weight for as big as they are, easy to install and throw off a lot of light. 

The light switch is right beside the man door, so I don’t have to walk anywhere in the dark to get to the light switch. I wish there was also one at the other end of the barn but there isn’t.

The importance of halogens (if that’s what they are called), is that they are instant on lights. No waiting 2-3 minutes like I had to with my original lights.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

How to configure the inside is a personal choice for what makes it a comfortable, usable working space, efficient and easy _for you to manage._

What I would like to mention think I see in your drawing is 1 human door, 1 large slider and the other large opening is going to be dedicated to the horses in/out correct?
I would strongly suggest you make a second large door, the same slider style design so you can drive through the barn as needed, when needed.
As configured you have to either back into or up to, or pull inside and be able to turn around or back out...to me you lose a lot of what your barn could offer for your ease of tasks.
It will also allow you to have cross ventilation to cool, to change air inside, to light, to clear the air of hanging particles of irritants suspended...
It will allow you to bring inside a hay delivery to unload, a tractor to do maintenance inside as is sometimes needed...

Make sure those slider doors are tall & wide enough so you are not restricted or limited to much in what can go through...for me nothing shorter than a 10' clearance and 10' wide would also allow comfort if you decided to pull through with your horse trailer attached to truck for storm protection or a hay delivery arrived sticking over some of the vehicle sides...
For me, a second walk-through door on opposite end of the barn might be handy..
A door that would lead into your tack storage area for instance with then a second one that goes into the barn itself allows access without having to slide open huge doors...
Actual doors on a frame and with hinges do not bang or make noise in winds nor drafts either and where you are going winter weather can be brutal with storms...so make plans on how to reduce the "bang effect" some sliding doors create.

Once you decide where you want those dedicated horse areas and what kind of base under them the real planning can begin to take shape.
:runninghorse2:...


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I'm another that would say use the cement for putting in a tack room, feed storage and hay, wash rack....

If you level and bed the dirt areas so they drain then they should be fine. Attention to detail or lack of is what makes or breaks dirt floors in stalls. Once done you can put mats down if you want mats.

I agree. Can never have too many properly placed doors and if you layout with an idea of use then you can keep them to a minimum.


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

Thanks everyone for all your input. You've all given me a lot to think about. I've made a few decisions.....

I want to hold off and see how the snow piles up and where. I want to see if the floor gets wet in the spring. 

Windows and an overhang on the high side are for sure next summer. 

I've decided to do nothing for now. I will use the gate panels things that are there to make temporary stalls and take my time deciding what will work the best for us.

I'll work with the existing fencing to create a dry lot for winter and in the spring I'll be digging post holes again!

Stay tuned........such an adventure. I almost cannot contain my excitement.


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

My saga continues.....I brought the horses UP North at the end of October and they are currently boarded 3 miles down the road from our house. I was going to wait until spring to move, but I couldn't do it...couldn't have the house sitting empty all winter and I couldn't let DH move in without me.

We've been really lucky with mild weather so far and we've made quite a bit of progress on my barn. Here are some pictures of the work in progress.


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## weeedlady (Jul 19, 2014)

The area with the big opening is where the concrete slab is. The electricity comes into the building there and the water hydrant is on that side. DH will be walling up that huge opening and installing a large, roll up type garage door. I will use that side for hay storage. The previous owner was kind enough to leave a bunch of plastic pallets to set the hay on, so that is a plus. Since these pictures were taken, DH has put up a wall to separate the adjoining stall from the hay area.

I've divided the rest of the barn in 1/2 lengthwise, giving me a roughly 24'x12' open area for tack/feed/whatever and 2 12x12 stalls. Each stall has a small gate opening to the "human side". Walls and kickboards are 2x6 spruce that we harvested from our woods and milled with DH's WoodMizer Sawmill. 

The stalls are separated by a gate panel that opens all the way, allowing me to turn the two stalls into one large run-in. There is a 12' sliding door that opens to the outside. My plan is to allow Raven and Tucker to come and go as they please for the most part, but this gives me the option to bring one or both inside if needed.

*Anyway, the stalls are done and I'm ready to put down a gravel base. *I plan to put mats on top of that. I'm thinking 3". Is that enough? And what kind do I want? Pea gravel? #57 Limestone? in Ohio we used what we called Bank Run for a driveway base- not sure what it's called here. Is that what I want? 
If the snow holds off so I can get a truck in here I could get that delivered next week I think.

Oh my, I wrote a book! Thanks for any and all ideas and suggestions.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Have you had enough rain since you’ve been UP there to see where the rain flows in or around the barn? Meaning, do you think you will need a gravel base or will limestone crush be enough?

My barn sits on a spot to where it there is good drainage on two sides.

*I also highly highly recommen gutters and downspouts.* We have experienced hard rain for several days at a time. <knock on wood>, since we built it 17 years ago, the barn has never taken on water anywhere.

That said, I have what is called “1/4 down”, aka “cat litter” in our area. It is limestone crush.

While the barn is basically on level ground, the amount of crush from one end to the other varies (40’ long) from 8” to 12” inches.

If you do not add that much crush to the entire barn floor, it means the horses will have to step UP into their stalls by a couple of inches. It’s not a big deal but I have been amazed at initial comments by a vet and a farrier asking “can the horses get in their stalls ok

I replied “why wouldn’t they?” Then I laughed and said “oh wait, you must be used to show horses. These are trail horses, they have climbed over rocks in their hard riding days”. 

2. Another reason to put deeper crush in the barn is that it will settle into the ground over the years.

We were still in California when the Tennessee barn was being built or things would have been done a little different. A tri-axle load of crush was spread across the entire 24x40 barn area before it was completed. 

That put about 4” of crush across the entire barn, which lasted about 6-7 years in the stalls, even with mats, because it just naturally goes into the dirt over time.

That’s how it came to pass the stalls are now higher than the barn aisle and work area. Those areas need redone with crush but, at our age and down to my last two horses, it isn’t happening.

That is why I am forwarning you to get the gravel and crush as right as you can now


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