# Double Suspension Transverse Gallop + Myostatin Gene?



## Tryst

Regarding the secretariat thing... All I can find is one quote copied and pasted over and over to different websites. I would think they would have photos of him in that second suspension and more discussion on race forums if it were true.


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## Pyrros

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. :/ It'd be/is very cool though if it is/were true!


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## Bridgertrot

Interesting. I've never heard about it either but I can kind of understand why they have the theory. I'm sure you may have seen this picture but I'll post anyway. This is the closest one I've found to getting to the first suspension phase.










It's interesting because here's another horse that appears to have a very similar movement. I can't quite figure out what his name is on the site the photo is from but he is Big Brown x Cool Ghoul. Here is the website: Running Rough Shod: March 2012

And if I read it right, he was the high seller in the sale, so maybe there is something behind it. 

Photo









From my non expert eyeballs, haha, they appear to almost arch into their strides rather than just going forward, giving them extra hand time. I'd like to see some footage of the above horse.

This is the horse I was looking at as a comparison. It appears to be in the same stride phase but doesn't have as much hang time. 









Very interesting.


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## EmilyJoy

It is interesting! I've never even clued in to that before...but I will now.


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## stevenson

I just read an article in Equus magazine that explains the stride.It also goes on explaining back flexibility, running straight, flexible loins,


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## stevenson

its the 'extra stride' between the hind limb and for limb push,


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## KigerQueen

I found this pic. Im kinda leary on it but it looks like an OLD racing pic of him. It looks distorted but its the only pic i could fined in that stride.









Then there are these ones


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## Pyrros

That is very similar Bridgertrot! I'll have to keep an eye out for that Big Brown son when he starts racing. I feel like from that picture it's very possible it's what that colt and Secretariat may have been doing now that I look at all these pictures and then back at the chart. Like the chestnut colt, his left fore is almost touching/about to touch already in the stride where as the Big Brown colt and Secretariat's fore feet look like they've got a lot more air time before the strike down, making it (to my eye) seem very possible for them to have enough time to 'push' off again. And I believe it does say that colt was the high sale of the day, I wonder if that's partly why? The more educated eyes saw something promising/special about him? Ah, this is so exciting and interesting!


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## rookie

I think this is really interesting. I also had heard that Secretariat had a larger chest and lungs which is why he was fast he could oxygenate quicker. With respect to the "bully whippets" I wonder how close this is to the "impressive" genes? It sounds like a similar disorder. 

If the big brown colt was sold a the yearling sales such as Keeneland than he would not have been in training and thus any talent would be based on luck and breeding. His sales price would be the result of his breeding. Big Brown is no slouch. Cool Ghoul goes back to Native Dancer (great grandfather) she started ten times and only ended up earning 10,910 in winnings (1 win and 1 place). The value of the foal is in Big Brown, who coincidentally goes back to Northern Dancer who's grand father is Native Dancer. So the foals paternal great great grandfather and great grandfather are the same horse. 

Interestingly Secretariat goes back to Nearco, Nasrullah and Bold Ruler in his pedigree. Where it gets a little interesting is that a horse named Nearctic had Nearco. Nearctic is also in Big Browns pedigree. So basically Big Brown and Secretariat are distant relatives. Which means that if the double suspension is genetic its possible that it is in Big Brown.


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## Bridgertrot

Yeah it said he was high seller for $1.3 mil. So it sounds like somebody knows something we don't haha.

And maybe there is something to all the old time horse art created long ago. Haha!








EDIT

The Big Brown colt's name is Darwin.


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## Bridgertrot

rookie said:


> I think this is really interesting. I also had heard that Secretariat had a larger chest and lungs which is why he was fast he could oxygenate quicker. With respect to the "bully whippets" I wonder how close this is to the "impressive" genes? It sounds like a similar disorder.
> 
> If the big brown colt was sold a the yearling sales such as Keeneland than he would not have been in training and thus any talent would be based on luck and breeding. His sales price would be the result of his breeding. Big Brown is no slouch. Cool Ghoul goes back to Native Dancer (great grandfather) she started ten times and only ended up earning 10,910 in winnings (1 win and 1 place). The value of the foal is in Big Brown, who coincidentally goes back to Northern Dancer who's grand father is Native Dancer. So the foals paternal great great grandfather and great grandfather are the same horse.
> 
> Interestingly Secretariat goes back to Nearco, Nasrullah and Bold Ruler in his pedigree. Where it gets a little interesting is that a horse named Nearctic had Nearco. Nearctic is also in Big Browns pedigree. So basically Big Brown and Secretariat are distant relatives. Which means that if the double suspension is genetic its possible that it is in Big Brown.


He wasn't sold at the yearling sale, he was sold as a 2 year old in training. The photos above are from around that sale time. http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/72985/13-million-big-brown-colt-named-darwin


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## EmilyJoy

This is really awesome! Have any of you ever been able to find photos of any other significant horses (like seabiscuit etc.) that are compareable to that same stride?


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## 2BigReds

Subbing, this is super cool stuff!


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## Pyrros

You got me curious EmilyJoy, I'll look for that tonight! On the same topic, I noticed that too in the older race horse art! I am _loving_ this thread and all the contributions! <3

Also, some input on the whole, Darwin going back to Nasrullah and bold ruler, same as Secretariat. My OTTB gelding I had, Remington, was a Bold Ruler grand son. He didn't excel on the track (one win) but honestly after riding him I'm fairly sure it wasn't for a lack of physical ability but simply because he didn't have the drive/temperament for it. I might be biased or something but I must say when he was at a flat out gallop it felt different from any gallop I'd ever ridden. It was literally like flying. I can't even think of a better way to explain it. I never got any videos of him galloping to look back on, nor did I know about any of this when I owned him so I can't say for sure if it was there or if I might be imagining it. Ahh I might be getting a bit ahead of myself!

I'm definitely excited now to keep an eye on Darwin as he continues to train and race! I wonder if this has ever potentially been noticed in horses that aren't from the bold ruler and nasrullah lines? Very interesting. I'll be back with some pictures of other well known race horses in full stride if I can find anything similar! Keep the stuff coming guys, I am loving this.


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## Bridgertrot

I'm all curious about Darwin now too. I found a place that has a video of one of his races but it wants you to make an account...which I don't want to haha. He won his maiden race and a few others, one of which he finished two lengths ahead. He suffered an injury at one point. But looks like he came back from it to get two more wins and a 3. Horse Racing | Horse Racing Entries | Horse Racing Results | Past Performances | Mobile | Statistics

There's videos on there of the races, but looks like you have to pay for them. It appears he's not in the US anymore either.


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## Bridgertrot

Wait! Found one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aM0BXK0p9w


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## Pyrros

Seabiscuit:









Not seeing it there at all, the left fore is completely planted and the right hind hasn't even begun to come up.

Same with Man O War, from what I could find:









Left fore fully planted and the right hind is just barely coming up.

I honestly had like 0 luck finding pictures of Bold Ruler in the fully extended stride, this was about the best I could find and the angle is kinda odd:









Looks like POTENTIALLY enough air time there for an extra suspension? But it's hard to tell.

I can't seem to find ANY decent racing pictures of Nasrullah. >.<

Some other various well known horses for comparison to the ones that we suspect of having the double suspension:

Barbaro: 









Looks like there's no way there, right hind is deeply planted and the left fore is already about to touch the ground.

Affirmed seems like a maybe though?










He goes back to Gallant Fox and Native Dancer. Gallant Fox stuck out to me a bit since he was also a Triple Crown winner. I tried to find decent racing pictures of Gallant Fox to no avail. No luck on his son Omaha either, sadly. 

And Big Brown, since his colt is one of the suspect ones!









I'm kinda iffy on if I see it potentially there or not. Hmm.


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## equiniphile

Wow, this is very interesting!

I've always heard the old racing art was painted as such because the artists couldn't get a solid grip on the stride. In motion, it appeared that the legs were extended at the same time. Maybe there's more to it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pyrros

Hmm, I wonder if Darwin is still racing or if he retired? Also, I kept pausing the video but honestly I couldn't really tell if there was or wasn't anything extra there. :/ hmm.

EDIT TO ADD: Rookie, Secretariat DID have a larger heart than normal. It was estimated his heart weighed roughly 22lbs. This is because he carried the X factor gene, or 'large heart gene'. Phar Lap did as well, as well as numerous other race horses. It traces back to the stallion Ecplise.


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## Bridgertrot

Affirmed looks very similar. The thing I'm mainly looking as is their hinds. The hind leg in the air's fetlock is about halfway up the planted legs cannon, and yet look how high his forelegs are.

While Seabiscuit, his back legs are in the right spot but his foreleg is already planted hard.


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## Pyrros

Yeah that's what I was noticing too. I'm sorry if my posts are a bit confusing tonight, I'm heavily medicated at the moment, ha! xD That's what I was trying to say though, the hind leg compared to the forelegs. - well I was going to try and further explain but my brain just went 'plbpht', you basically nailed what I was attempting to convey right on the head though!


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## Zexious

Such a cool thread! I had never heard of this before~


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## CandyCanes

I have to wonder if Frankel is like this too... He has won all of his fourteen races... That has to be based on much more than luck...


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## EmilyJoy

^^ Any pictures of this horse doing that?


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## CandyCanes

EmilyJoy said:


> ^^ Any pictures of this horse doing that?


I'm trying to find some... But none are of him in that stage of gallop 

I'll keep looking









I compared this to the double transverse gallop scale, and it matches, as far as I can see.


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## Bridgertrot

I'd say he has pretty good hang time. It's just hard to tell because the grass is so deep.


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## rookie

I think the real issue is that we are only seeing one photo of a horse in mid stride. Which could be the photos at the exact right or wrong time. We are catching the possible second suspension. What would be better is video or a cut segments of the video (like the first set of images with the gallop laid out). I say this because the trot is a two beat gate in which in theory two feet are off the ground and two feet are on the ground. There are a few examples of horses going at speed at a trot with all four feet of the ground. This does not mean they have a anything other than speed going on. Its just the right photo at the right time. http://www.worldclasstrotting.com/NorthAmerica/Meadowlands/2013/Hambletonian2013/Pictures/RoyaltyForLife_HamboFinal.jpg


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## phantomhorse13

rookie said:


> the trot is a two beat gate in which in theory two feet are off the ground and two feet are on the ground. There are a few examples of horses going at speed at a trot with all four feet of the ground. This does not mean they have a anything other than speed going on. Its just the right photo at the right time. http://www.worldclasstrotting.com/N...an2013/Pictures/RoyaltyForLife_HamboFinal.jpg


But maybe that speed is the key.. the modified gait is what makes the great speed attainable.

Have you ever ridden a horse that does what I call a "long trot" like the one you pictured? The feeling of that gait is totally different than the feeling of a "normal" trot, even though both are 2-beat diagonal gaits.

I would love to talk to the jockeys of some of those suspect horses, to hear their opinion of that gallop versus a 'normal' gallop.


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## Iseul

Subbing..I'll make my comments tomorrow though when I'm on the actual computer or have forever and a half to play around with picture links and all that.

But, without going into huge detail, I was mainly looking at the first two pictures (I think those were the two). I believe someone mentioned them being at the same stage in the gait..but if you look, the forelegs are opposite. Unless someone can get a photo of two horses in the EXACT same motion, in a motion that is shown in the comparison chart, I cant see judging them as the same stride/motion as fair.

ETA I need to go to bed, lol.
While I still think it needs to be photos taken at the same phase and angle/side, I also didn't realize that the horses were just on different leads, lol. Whoops.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bridgertrot

Iseul said:


> Subbing..I'll make my comments tomorrow though when I'm on the actual computer or have forever and a half to play around with picture links and all that.
> 
> But, without going into huge detail, I was mainly looking at the first two pictures (I think those were the two). I believe someone mentioned them being at the same stage in the gait..but if you look, the forelegs are opposite. Unless someone can get a photo of two horses in the EXACT same motion, in a motion that is shown in the comparison chart, I cant see judging them as the same stride/motion as fair.
> 
> ETA I need to go to bed, lol.
> While I still think it needs to be photos taken at the same phase and angle/side, I also didn't realize that the horses were just on different leads, lol. Whoops.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, they're at the same stage, just different leads. 

I don't think the pictures need to be exactly perfect, that would be tough anyway with what we're finding, you can still see their front legs are higher up than most. 

I was wondering before, as the last poster mentioned, if it does depend on speed. They may just be going slightly faster enough to stretch out further.


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## Allison Finch

One of the big differences in him was the angle of his stride.....










But the thing that really separated him from the crowd was that he had a very oversized heart. That allowed him to pump a lot more oxygenated blood while he was running

Large Heart Gene


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## rookie

You are right phantom horse at that speed it the gait does smooth out and its amazing to ride. I just wonder if speed is the larger factor than genes. Than again, dogs and horses share a number of genes so this could be that example.


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## kKoira

I may be wrong, but it looks to me like both of the bottom horse race finish photos on this site show the double suspension gallop in the first suspension stage. Neptune Collonges wins the Grand National and 10 classic photo finish pictures - Mirror Online

The first one is Real Quiet who looks like he is in the first suspension, and the second photo it looks like Red Cadeaux is possibly.


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## quinn

Subbing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bridgertrot

This was posted on the APHA facebook










Though I'm wondering if the horse just tried to jump something at a high rate of speed, like a shadow.


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## Little Jane

This is fascinating! Subbing!


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## NdAppy

Video of that APHA horse posted above.


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## Jake and Dai

LOL Looked like someone tried to jump across that finish line!

This is a fascinating thread!


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## NdAppy

You can see in the video she's jumping over the light that's across the track.


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## Allison Finch

Bridgertrot said:


> Interesting. I've never heard about it either but I can kind of understand why they have the theory. I'm sure you may have seen this picture but I'll post anyway. This is the closest one I've found to getting to the first suspension phase.
> 
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> It's interesting because here's another horse that appears to have a very similar movement. I can't quite figure out what his name is on the site the photo is from but he is Big Brown x Cool Ghoul. Here is the website: Running Rough Shod: March 2012
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> And if I read it right, he was the high seller in the sale, so maybe there is something behind it.
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> Photo
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> From my non expert eyeballs, haha, they appear to almost arch into their strides rather than just going forward, giving them extra hand time. I'd like to see some footage of the above horse.
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> This is the horse I was looking at as a comparison. It appears to be in the same stride phase but doesn't have as much hang time.
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> Very interesting.


None of those qualify as a double. They all have one foot planted. A double has two distinct moments of suspension, where no foot is on the ground.


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## Allison Finch

NdAppy said:


> You can see in the video she's jumping over the light that's across the track.


I used to gallop race horses and I rode several that would jump the shadows from the light poles. Most of them were the racing arabians. I really didn't enjoy galloping the arabs.....


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## NdAppy

Allison Finch said:


> I used to gallop race horses and I rode several that would jump the shadows from the light poles. Most of them were the racing arabians. I really didn't enjoy galloping the arabs.....


Yeah I can't imagine that's a very pleasurable run :rofl:


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## NdAppy




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## NdAppy

Fairplex Quarter Horse Racing - The Gallop Out


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## Chiilaa

Red Cadeaux


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## Chiilaa

Mispost.


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## xlntperuvian

Pyrros said:


> That did lead me to another mess of things though, particularly about myostatin mutations.
> 
> SO! Can anyone perhaps shed some more light on either of these two topics?


I've heard about the myostatin mutation in cattle before so I looked it up. It occurred first as a natural mutation, but then was selectively bred for. The mutation results in double the number of muscle _fibers_ of a normal animal. In cows this results in an animal that looks like it's on steroids; very similar to an over-muscled human bodybuilder. Here's a short article with a video on Belgian Blue cattle: 
Double-Muscled Cattle - The Belgian Blue - InfoBarrel

Apparently this mutation is even being bred into fish! 
Double Muscled Animals

Here's an article from The Horse magazine that gives on overview of what's been found in Thoroughbreds: 

Horse Speed Gene Identified; Commercial Testing Available | TheHorse.com


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## Zexious

This is a fascinating thread. The pictures are awesome... There are just so many intelligent people on this site <3


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## Bridgertrot

Allison Finch said:


> None of those qualify as a double. They all have one foot planted. A double has two distinct moments of suspension, where no foot is on the ground.



I think you missed my point of that post. Since we are all having trouble finding actual photographic proof, I simply found some that were close to the double suspension. I was showing at how some horses seem to have front legs higher in the air than others when the rear feet are in a similar position.

Hence the first paragraph "This is the closest one I've found to getting to the first suspension phase."

And haha! I was right about the paint jumping.


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## HotToTrott

After searching for weeks, I found one photo of Secretariat in the second suspension phase of the Double Suspension Gallop. It's the official finishline photo at the 1973 Belmont Stakes, his Triple Crown win! If everyone remembers, Secretariat ran each quarter mile of this race faster than the previous quarter mile. By the time he crossed the finish line, he was STILL gaining speed. Anyway, here's the photo.......


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## trailhorserider

Oh wow, that is so funky looking! :shock:


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## trailhorserider

Chiilaa said:


> Red Cadeaux


Just wanted to see if I could get this photo to re-post under Secretariat for comparison. Because, man, they are both doing the same thing. I didn't realize a galloping horse could actually look like this. The front legs bent with the totally straight hock. I have never seen anything like it!


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## NdAppy

Part of that is camera distortion.


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## Horseychick87

I can remember hearing a racehorse trainer talking about stride ' arch' as he called it at the time. He said he would watch the horses run in person, then on video and look for that more 'upward tilt' to their stride as that gave them more of a chance of a double suspension in their stride, much like Secretariat. He was obviously onto something.

I've watched videos of Secretariat in slow motion and I have to say that it does look like he did have the DSTG, his feet were at the right angles for it, and the Belmont finish photo is fairly accurate except for some of the photo distortion that is going to happen of course.

(I will note that many of the photo's are not showing up for me and when I click on them the links appear broken, just a heads up. ;-) )


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## Strogoff

Well, these are not photos. A photo shows the points of the world at the same moment. These are the so-called strip photography, photo finish, etc, these are time machines. If you see the horizontal stripes as ground (the ground doesn't move...) and distortions of the horizontally moving objects (either thinning or widening) then you see a finish photo. So they show the hind legs in a *later* moment than the forelegs. So it is a common or garden gallop.


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## akaDuchess

I think this explains that it’s possible and what to look for... 

https://www.eqb.com/Domains/www.eqb.com/pdfs/doubleair.pdf


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