# HOW do I keep from gripping with my knees??



## rosie1 (Feb 28, 2011)

Think about stretching up and open with your whole body. Even if your just sitting in a chair knees shoulder width apart if you leaning forward closing your hip angle your knees naturally want to come in, if you open your hip and shoulders it will be much easier for you to have your knees open as well.
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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

first get rid of your stirrups, then let your legs hang straight down, sit deep in your saddle until your pelvic area, lower back are "engaged" (you should be feeling your core). then drop your heels down. Get comfortable at the walk in this position once you have mastered the walk try the sitting then posting trot (yes w/o stirrups lol) DONT point your toes out. Use your back to guide your horse vs your knees.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Remember, too, that it takes time for the rider's body to change (yes, it does; ligaments & all) to accommodate a correct rider position. It takes years, perhaps, for that process to approach completion.


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## Ali M (Mar 28, 2011)

Katze said:


> first get rid of your stirrups, then let your legs hang straight down, sit deep in your saddle until your pelvic area, lower back are "engaged" (you should be feeling your core). then drop your heels down. Get comfortable at the walk in this position once you have mastered the walk try the sitting then posting trot (yes w/o stirrups lol) DONT point your toes out. Use your back to guide your horse vs your knees.



I went riding tonight again to try and work on this, and had a friend come with me to help me out. She said that I SHOULD be pointing my toes out a little more, so was she wrong? I was having trouble keeping my mare cantering around the corner so she had me go in my two point, keep a firm contact with my lower leg, point my toes kind of out and heels down, and then she cantered around the ring just fine after that. 

I should definitely start working without stirrups, that's probably the best way to start getting in shape and breaking my habit of perching on the stirrup irons :?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

As George Morris says "You are not ontop of your horse, you are wrapped around your horse"

You have to rethink your position while on your horse and you have to understand where your solidity comes from, when in your saddle. 

First and foremost, your heels are very important in the whole grand scheme of things - they must beable to be your anchors. When we allow our heels to anchor us in our tack, we find that base of security, we find that solidity and we find that the rest of our body can be functional as well.

So, in order for our heels to be our anchors, you must allow our bodies natural weight flow, occur. That weight must beable to flow from our heads, down into our seat, and down into our heels. The moment we grip or pinch with our knees - we block that weight flow from occuring, so we loose that base of security in our lower leg.

So back to what GM says - start imagining yourself as being wrapped around your horse. Open up your knee's, get them off your tack, and allow that weight to flow down into your heels naturally, then wrap yourself around your horses girth. 

Make sure your legs are under you, you are balanced over your feet. Open your knees and allow that weight to flow from head, into heels. Don't block it from occuring. Allow your heels to do their job


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

I disagree with your friend's advice to turn out your toes; just let them be to whatever turnout degree they naturally fall in, because then your leg is relaxed, as MIE discussed.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Just an imagery thing to think about - Hayley Beresford was doing clinics in Australia recently, and a Grand Prix dressage rider had the problem of gripping with the upper thighs. Hayley suggested she think about sitting on a Harley Davidson motorbike, knees and hips open, sitting back on your seat bones and allowing the power to drive up in front of you. 
It worked for one of my students, so give it a go


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

When I first got back into riding I had the same problem. I would grip with my knees so bad I would have little bruises on the inside of my knees. What I did was bring my stirrups up a hole and a half. It took awhile to get used to, but it help me feel more secure in the saddle. I've been back into riding for a year now, and my legs are a lot stronger I still have to have the thought in my head to hold on with my calf. It is a lot easier to hold on with my calf now, then it was a year ago. But I can sometimes feel my legs come off especially when I'm jumping.

I will admit, I rarely practiced without stirrups, but you should most definitely do no stirrup work, it will make you muscles stronger, faster. Also a lot of 2-point work helps.


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## Ali M (Mar 28, 2011)

Thank you so much for all the advice! This thread has REALLY helped me. I like the idea of letting it 'flow' all the way down and 'wrapping' myself around her girth. I'll also have to keep the thought my head for a while until it becomes unconscious, but that'll be a while. Unfortunately, I ride a crotch rocket motorcycle (which you grip with your knees), so the Harley thing doesn't work as well for me. :lol:


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

To comment on the toe thing - you must allow your toes to point out, in order for your calf to be correctly placed on your horse, to aid you with solidifying your lower leg. 

You should have at least a 40 to 45 degree angle, where you are making contact on your horses girth on your inner/back part of your calf. You don't want to have contact on your inner calf where your toes are pointing forward, nor do you want contact on the back of your calf where you doing the "charlie chaplin" - you want to be right in the middle....the sweet spot.

Here's a picture to hopefully give you a better idea:


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I bad habit of gripping with my knees and my instructor and I went through all sorts of methods (most mentioned above) and none of them managed to get through my thick skull.

What did work for me was a dragon of an instructor (who I thought was absolutly brilliant) ignoreing what my heel was doing and shouting at me to push my knee down.
Now it is impossible to push your knee down and still grip with your knee (or at least it is for me!). and thus by pushing my knee down my heel automaticly dropped and I stopped gripping with my kees


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## Brent (Mar 14, 2011)

Yes if you push your heel down then your thighs will lossen up. Just tell yourself heels down while your riding.if you find yourself holding your stirrups back then they need adjusted. You may have to train your horse a little cause you have trained it to the other way you were riding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't grip with my knees, but one of my bad habits is leaning forward. I started taking lessons 3 weeks ago (western riding). My instructor said she usually teaches things in 3 steps, so that a turn becomes:

1 - Turn with your seat
2 - Outside leg
3 - Invite with rein, if needed

But, she said, I need to add step 0, as in 

0 - Straighten your back (or even feel like I'm leaning back)

And to create new habits, she said to run thru that at every transition: change of pace, change of direction, lateral move, etc - entering the transition and leaving it, straighten my back. She says with enough time my posture will then improve in between transitions.

You might try the same thing with your knees. Entering and leaving every transition, make a conscious effort to spread your knees and then let the weight flow thru them.

I'll add that I guess I am odd...if I think heels down, I tighten my entire leg. Always. If I think toes up, I don't. Worst case, I think a relaxed leg is more important than heels down, and it may be that for me, a relaxed leg creates the heels down, rather than the reverse.


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## JerBear (Jan 23, 2011)

At Meredith Manor they made us do leg exercises called dog and frogs haha Kinda silly I know but they worked for me.... Hated them at first because they will tire you out doing them enough but they build up your hip and leg strength.... The one my instructor used to take my knees away was frog... All it is... Lift your knees out away from the saddle and back a little ways (like a frog) Its one fluid motion.... And do it while your in the saddle on your horse... Your horse is gonna be wondering what the hell your doing haha but its ok. Do it for like 2-3 minutes straight non stop every day.... Thats what got my knee off. Trust me your gonna think its stupid and it hurts if you really keep doing it for 3 minutes long... But it works. Give it a try. You can do both legs at a time or alternating.... however hard you wanna work...


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

> I'll add that I guess I am odd...if I think heels down, I tighten my entire leg. Always. If I think toes up, I don't. Worst case, I think a relaxed leg is more important than heels down, and it may be that for me, a relaxed leg creates the heels down, rather than the reverse.


I think that is very interesting, bsms. I think I would have to agree with you there, although the first time I read it I was tempted to disagree. I believe I read on here that when you grip with your knees, you don't allow your heels to be your anchor the way they should be. So the Relaxed Leg = Heels Down thing makes a lot of sense. Now that I think about it, whenever I tense up in any way, my heels go UP. When I'm relaxed, they are nice and down. I'll have to experiment a bit with this, as I have a bad habit of being VERY tense AND gripping with my knees....so perhaps relaxing = knees correct = heels down.


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> To comment on the toe thing - you must allow your toes to point out, in order for your calf to be correctly placed on your horse, to aid you with solidifying your lower leg.
> 
> You should have at least a 40 to 45 degree angle, where you are making contact on your horses girth on your inner/back part of your calf. You don't want to have contact on your inner calf where your toes are pointing forward, nor do you want contact on the back of your calf where you doing the "charlie chaplin" - you want to be right in the middle....the sweet spot.
> 
> Here's a picture to hopefully give you a better idea:


Your toes WILL turn out a little bit if your heels are down and your leg is in the correct position. You don't want the OP to think she needs wing toes to get the correct leg contact going... Bottom line, drop your heels sit deep in your saddle and the rest will/should follow.


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## Ali M (Mar 28, 2011)

Katze said:


> Your toes WILL turn out a little bit if your heels are down and your leg is in the correct position. You don't want the OP to think she needs wing toes to get the correct leg contact going... Bottom line, drop your heels sit deep in your saddle and the rest will/should follow.


I think my friend was telling me the correct position after all, because I was feeling my position when I pinched with my knees and it brought my heels up and my toes pointed in towards the girth. When she told me to think about my toes going out, it relaxed my heels and brought my leg into position. But I won't do the 'charlie chaplin' and go overboard with it lol!  

It is interesting to think that a relaxed leg means dropped heels and no knee-gripping. I'm a very tense rider so that might be the key for me, just RELAX! It's always when I'm just riding around having fun that I have the best position. I think about it too hard and I'll tense right back up again, lean foreword, lose my stirrups, and grip with my knees.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

To get correct leg placement, and to effectively use your lower leg effectively, you should have an angle between 40 - 45 degees, where your inner/back of your calf is making contact on your horses girth. 

And guess what happens when you ride with correct calf placement?! Your knees open up!


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

I rode at my cousin's place Saturday and she had me point my toes out. I could feel the difference in my leg position immediately. It made it MUCH easier to post to the trot, it made the horse have a much bigger trot and I didn't have to intentionally squeeze with my legs so much- the pressure was already there. My heels also dropped automatically and it made it much easier in general to have them down.


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