# The Neck Rope



## JustDressageIt

I can honestly say I have never seen a neck-rope used in my area. The idea is intriguing, but I would worry about strangulation or the horse breaking its neck - but I am a worrier like that. 
What I have read about (Western Horseman) is a similar set-up, but with a cinch around the neck; apparently it distributes the pressure evenly, and you don't get constriction like you would with the neck-rope sliding through the ring. 
I personally have always tied with a halter and lead in the conventional sense. Denny has learned to ground-tie, so I don't even bother with him... besides the fact that I mostly groom him in his stall now.


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## kmacdougall

Thanks for posting this, I'm very intrigued. Could you tell me what exactly constitutes too tight? Or is it just a general don't-make-it-tight-enough-to-choke / not-loose-enough-to-go-over-his-head type deal? I have a horse I'd like to try it on, who is a puller, but I don't want to do it if I'm going to do it wrong and injure him..


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## smrobs

I don't use them myself but they are a good idea. The non-breaking factor is one of the reasons why I use rope halters with the lead tied on; no buckles or snaps to give if they fight.


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## JustDressageIt

Duhhhhh.. gosh, maybe next time I should take a closer look at the pictures. I see now that there's a ring so there is no constriction. Oops.... *open mouth, insert foot*
Having said that, I would still worry about a horse perhaps falling.... I dunno. I get the feeling I should stop talking now...


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## smrobs

ROFL Allie. No worries, it took me a minute to see the ring tied in there too. As for falling, I don't think it is any more dangerous than any halter, just more secure.


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## JustDressageIt

Fair enough. 
Okay, I'm putting myself out there, for better or worse (*braces*) :
IF a horse falls or gets himself into such a situation where either something on the halter breaks, or he does, I'd much prefer it be the halter. Now, I'm saying this about a horse that would normally tie fine, but gets himself into a bit of trouble (eg: spooks, and slips... or something. Can you tell my coffee has worn off?) -- for a puller, I would look at an alternative LIKE this, but with a wider distribution like I said earlier with a cinch. I will try to find a photo.. it's in a Western Horseman book.


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## IslandWave

I've never seen or heard of a neck rope before. When I read your title I first assumued it concerned how the backyard horse owners here stake out their horse in a field with one end of the rope around their neck and other other end tied to a metal stake. 

Very interesting. I guess it would alleviate the need for a halter as most horses I know lead just fine with just a rope around their neck. I can see it as being very useful, especially since it is solid if the horse tries to pull back. I wonder why people don't use it here. It seems like it would be more common with the western riders?

edit:: Just saw your newest post, JDI. 
In the situation of either hoe halter or the horse breaking, are you talking about an unattended horse? If a person was there all they'd need to do to is untie or cut the lead rope. However, if you're talking about an unattended horse, then I understand your concern.


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## smrobs

Allie, I actually think that Wild_Spot has some pictures of something very similar to what you are talking about that she used on Latte for a while.


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## JustDressageIt

IslandWave said:


> edit:: Just saw your newest post, JDI.
> In the situation of either hoe halter or the horse breaking, are you talking about an unattended horse? If a person was there all they'd need to do to is untie or cut the lead rope. However, if you're talking about an unattended horse, then I understand your concern.


I've been in a few situations where a horse has pulled back and the slip knot is not so slippery anymore, or the horse is making such a fuss that you cannot get to the knot. I should really take to carrying a knife with me again. 
I can definitely see both sides, mostly I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate. 


Smrobs, I must have missed that thread/those photos..


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## smrobs

I believe it is in this thread......
Yep, on post #16
http://www.horseforum.com/member-journals/breaking-latte-42314/


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## JustDressageIt

Yes! That! Except with a cinch... but that's just a small detail; the theory is the same.


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## riccil0ve

Interesting concept. However, my girls straight tie, cross-tie, and ground tie. For the most part, they are cross-tied or ground tied, and in both cases, the neck rope would be either more dangerous or unneccesary, lol. Oftentimes, I'll use my belt around my mare's neck to "lead" her into the barn because I'll do something silly like forget to rab her halter, lol. Or I just grab her forelock, haha.


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## Phaeton

I like the idea I just wonder what happens when they might pull back.Things like halters and ropes break for a reason so the horse does not get hurt. What happens here what going to break. I use a rope halter and run the throat latch through the halter that way when driving the can't rub the bridle off on the other horse.


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## wild_spot

I used both a rope cinch and the hessian sack in the picture - Posted here so people can see.

The cinch I used was an old rope one with one buckle we had lying around that just happened to be the perfect length for her neck - However The hessian was thicker and felt a lot softer, so when I was lent it by a friend I switched over to using it.

I'm at a bit of a loss for what to do with Latte - She pulled back a few times in the neck strap and didn't get loose, but it didn't stop the pulling. When she does pull and get free for whatever reason, she doesn't run away, just stands and I tie her back up. I don't think she is doing it to get free, I think she just gets claustrophobic sometimes and can't handle the restraint. So i'm not sure what tack to take. But yep, the neck strap did what it was meant to, she didn't get loose, and didn't have any skin off like what happened when she pulled back with the rope halter.

I am very wary of tying solid with a rope halter - Wildey was tied to twine with a rope halter, got a fright, pulled back, twine didn't break, and he wrapped himself around the pole - The rope halter actually cut into his head and he couldn't breath. Dad had to cut him loose with a knife and he had cuts around his head that took a while to heal. Ever since then we never tie him unless we have to, but he is perfect to ground tie so it's not an issue.


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## smrobs

I don't know about RD, but I don't want a fighting horse to get loose unless I deem they are in enough danger that I need to cut the rope. I have seen way too many horses learn to pull back because they know that the halter or lead will break. That is an awful habit and a pretty hard one to break.


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## thunderhooves

While neck ropes may be "rgiht" to you, it might not be for others. It's purely an opninion.
For me, I wouldn't tie with one. if they halter has enoug pressure to break, then it would be safer for the horse to break, whereas a nek rop could hang them if they slipped. But then again, so could a halter, if it didn't break. 
how about just fix the pulling back problem before tying serially?


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

kmacdougall said:


> Thanks for posting this, I'm very intrigued. Could you tell me what exactly constitutes too tight? Or is it just a general don't-make-it-tight-enough-to-choke / not-loose-enough-to-go-over-his-head type deal? I have a horse I'd like to try it on, who is a puller, but I don't want to do it if I'm going to do it wrong and injure him..


You don't want it so tight that it is hard to clip into the ring but not loose enought that he could possibley slip it over his head. When they pull they raise their heads high so slipping at that point is not a problem, it is when they eat off the ground and you are holding the neck rope.
So just loose enough that clipping into the ring is easy.


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## ridergirl23

Those are cool! ive neer heard of those! In my area we use rope halters, If you get the right rope halter they dont break, and when the hrose pulls back, they apply more and more pressure to the poll, and some even put some 'bite' in the nose, so they learn that its to uncomfortable to pull back.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

smrobs said:


> I don't use them myself but they are a good idea. The non-breaking factor is one of the reasons why I use rope halters with the lead tied on; no buckles or snaps to give if they fight.


My neck rope is about 5/8th inch diameter so it will not break. Can you say the same thing for your rope halter?? It is lighter diameter rope and the lead is also not as heavy.
Nothing breaks on a neck rope. I have broken a number of 1300 or 1400 pound horse using a neck rope and snubbing post and they threw everything they had into the rope and it held.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

JustDressageIt said:


> Fair enough.
> Okay, I'm putting myself out there, for better or worse (*braces*) :
> IF a horse falls or gets himself into such a situation where either something on the halter breaks, or he does, I'd much prefer it be the halter. Now, I'm saying this about a horse that would normally tie fine, but gets himself into a bit of trouble (eg: spooks, and slips... or something. Can you tell my coffee has worn off?) -- for a puller, I would look at an alternative LIKE this, but with a wider distribution like I said earlier with a cinch. I will try to find a photo.. it's in a Western Horseman book.


I will pull off a busy highway into a grass shoulder, one that sort of has a driveway so the horse trailer doesn't go through the ditch. I will unload and tie a horse to each side of the trail. We are maybe 20 feet from a busy highway and we saddle up. Do I really want my horse to suddenly pull back and break free?? What would happen to him if he suddenly broke free and went flying into traffic ??. If he is so stupid as to fall, which I have never seen happen and he is hung by the neck I will free him using the correct knot on the tie ring and allow him to get up. Again I don't want a halter breaking and him running into certain death.
When you slip the halter he is still tied by the neck rope so until the head stall is on and throat latch done up he is secure.
I also trailer to mauls, pick a quiet corner and saddle up and ride out. Again I don't want a run away horse heading across the maul parking lot and onto a busy busy expressway. He will be killed or at the very very least wipe out on the pavement and skin himself up.
NO when I tie I tie so he stays put no matter what.

I will go to the beach for the day and leave him tied in the camping area and only ask someone to keep a eye on him but I expect nothing to require assistance. I do tie and camp for 3 days.


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## smrobs

I can't say that it will never break, no. But I have never had one break even with some pretty good sized horses fighting until they got themselves down.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

IslandWave said:


> I've never seen or heard of a neck rope before. When I read your title I first assumued it concerned how the backyard horse owners here stake out their horse in a field with one end of the rope around their neck and other other end tied to a metal stake.
> 
> .


 
You want to see that go to Spain. There are alot of horses staked out along the expressways with nothing more then a rope around their necks and a stake in the ground. They are watered once a day and their picked moved at the time.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

riccil0ve said:


> Interesting concept. However, my girls straight tie, cross-tie, and ground tie. For the most part, they are cross-tied or ground tied, and in both cases, the neck rope would be either more dangerous or unneccesary, lol. Oftentimes, I'll use my belt around my mare's neck to "lead" her into the barn because I'll do something silly like forget to rab her halter, lol. Or I just grab her forelock, haha.


My guys does it all too including hobbling. I often hobble. I hobble the front very tight, almost no movement. I hobble the back looser and sometimes I hobble all 4. He ground ties very well, cross ties for shoing and solid ties when I am saddling beside the trailer. Alot of the times there is NO room for error. To break free is to die. I prefer a safe secure fool proof tie any time. 
I welcome my horse to try fighting a tie. He has fought it many times and I encourage him to try. A horse that doens't trie isn't really broke. Try typing and then drag a hose past the horses nose or try spooking the horse. A well broke horse doesn't try, it dances but it doesn't try. Yes in the beginning they try but after a number of failed attempts they learn it is useless to try but like I said I want a horse to fight at least once with all it has. I don't panic, I don't turn the horse loose, I just stand back and watch. They never win, they educate themselves about what it means to be tied.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

Phaeton said:


> I like the idea I just wonder what happens when they might pull back.Things like halters and ropes break for a reason so the horse does not get hurt. What happens here what going to break. I use a rope halter and run the throat latch through the halter that way when driving the can't rub the bridle off on the other horse.


Why do you want the horse to break free?? To break free teaches the horse not to tie. I want him to fight, to loose and to learn what it means to tie. Would you tie a horse up and go away for 3 or 4 hours.
I even tie nights while I sleep while camping.
No I don't want my halter to ever break, no matter what. Every horse if spooked will try to break free EXCEPT those that have fought and lost. They learn to just dance.
How about tying your horse up and then tell him to back, back him hard into the tie and see if he fights or just moves forward???

I never have had my horse escape a tie, never


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

smrobs said:


> I don't know about RD, but I don't want a fighting horse to get loose unless I deem they are in enough danger that I need to cut the rope. I have seen way too many horses learn to pull back because they know that the halter or lead will break. That is an awful habit and a pretty hard one to break.


I will break them of the habit because every single time I tie I tie as if today the big fight is coming. I tie a good knot to a good solid object every time I tie. I never had a horse break free but again I NEVER tie to a halter with a lead rope, always always a neck rope


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## smrobs

I completely agree with you there. I let them fight it out too. I was simply stating that a horse that has been allowed to break free for months or years won't get over it in a single session. It takes _lots_ of fights before they figure it out.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

thunderhooves said:


> While neck ropes may be "rgiht" to you, it might not be for others. It's purely an opninion.
> For me, I wouldn't tie with one. if they halter has enoug pressure to break, then it would be safer for the horse to break, whereas a nek rop could hang them if they slipped. But then again, so could a halter, if it didn't break.
> how about just fix the pulling back problem before tying serially?


I guess hundreds of amish in our neck of the woods must be wrong. Every single one of them uses a neck rope. They don't own cars, they take horse and buggey to town to shop, to church, to the market and leave the horse harnessed and buggy still attached and leave the horse standing while they shop and believe me some of them are not well mannered. Every one wears a neck tie.
But then your situation is different. You want your horse to break free.

When is it all right for a horse to break free?? How do you fix a problem if you let is happen. TRain all you want and sometime, somewhere the horse will try, something really frightens him and he tries. Yours breaks free and runs off, mine remains tied.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

ridergirl23 said:


> Those are cool! ive neer heard of those! In my area we use rope halters, If you get the right rope halter they dont break, and when the hrose pulls back, they apply more and more pressure to the poll, and some even put some 'bite' in the nose, so they learn that its to uncomfortable to pull back.


You pull on the pol and my neck rope pulls a couple of inches lower down?? What is the difference?? A couple of inches.

My neck rope is 5/8th soft rope, every part of it unbreakable. Is your halter that tuff, is the lead rope that strong??
Mine cost under $15 and easy to make. I don't buy them.


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## ridergirl23

RiosDad said:


> You pull on the pol and my neck rope pulls a couple of inches lower down?? What is the difference?? A couple of inches.
> 
> My neck rope is 5/8th soft rope, every part of it unbreakable. Is your halter that tuff, is the lead rope that strong??
> Mine cost under $15 and easy to make. I don't buy them.


 haha ya, they pretty much to apply the same pressure.
yes, it is, Just like you, i have seen horses fight it until the point where i have to look away because i thought the horse broke one of its bones, and yet the halter is still in place, hasnt budged one bit, while the horse is throwing its weight every which way trying its hardest to break away. The only time i have seen one of my halters break was when my horse somehow got a bucket hooked to the halter and she ripped backwards as the bucket slammed her face, but that was my leather halter i got for 20$ (I wanted to kill her after that, that was a beautiful halter) but that was a leather halter.


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## thunderhooves

RiosDad said:


> I guess hundreds of amish in our neck of the woods must be wrong. Every single one of them uses a neck rope. They don't own cars, they take horse and buggey to town to shop, to church, to the market and leave the horse harnessed and buggy still attached and leave the horse standing while they shop and believe me some of them are not well mannered. Every one wears a neck tie.
> But then your situation is different. You want your horse to break free.
> 
> When is it all right for a horse to break free?? How do you fix a problem if you let is happen. TRain all you want and sometime, somewhere the horse will try, something really frightens him and he tries. Yours breaks free and runs off, mine remains tied.


No, i do not want my horses to break free. And they never have. I never said your Amish people were wrong. i said its an opinion that that is the right way to tie, nothing more. if my horse has a pulling back problem, I'd fix it. Ive never has a 2 inch webbed nylon halter with heavy duty brass fittings break on me, and that's all I use. My horse would not break free. If they had a pulling back problem, I would fix it. 
Nothing for horses can be guarenteed unbreakable. Simple.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

thunderhooves said:


> I'd fix it. Ive never has a 2 inch webbed nylon halter with heavy duty brass fittings break on me, .


 
I would love to see pictures of a 2 inch wide webbed halter with heavy duty brass fittings? Didn't know they exist.

How do you fix a problem with a horse that pulls?? Tie it so it never breaks free again. It will try many times but over time it just stops realizing that it is useless to even try. I have good tiers, always have because they never break free, never. I have beautiful leather halters that I use to present the horse to the vet at rides but back at the trialer the neck rope goes on and the halter takes none of the strain if the horse attempts to break free. For example a stamped through camp because some careless owner lost their horse and other broke free and everyone took to running, Guys like mine do not break free no matter what.


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## ridergirl23

RiosDad said:


> I would love to see pictures of a 2 inch wide webbed halter with heavy duty brass fittings? Didn't know they exist.
> 
> How do you fix a problem with a horse that pulls?? Tie it so it never breaks free again. It will try many times but over time it just stops realizing that it is useless to even try. I have good tiers, always have because they never break free, never. I have beautiful leather halters that I use to present the horse to the vet at rides but back at the trialer the neck rope goes on and the halter takes none of the strain if the horse attempts to break free. For example a stamped through camp because some careless owner lost their horse and other broke free and everyone took to running, Guys like mine do not break free no matter what.


 haha yes, i had her pull a few times after that, but now i could tie her with yarn and she would think it was unbreakable and never pullon it, haha even though i still use my rope halter (gawd, i love that thing, its just great. haha)


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## kmacdougall

smrobs said:


> I completely agree with you there. I let them fight it out too. I was simply stating that a horse that has been allowed to break free for months or years won't get over it in a single session. It takes _lots_ of fights before they figure it out.


First off, RD, thank you for the info. I may be consulting you on this with some pictures in the next week or so..

Secondly, I gotta agree that horses breaking free is an absolutely terrible thing. I have a horse that freaked on the trailer, snapped a halter and went off it backwards. What did he learn from it? Put 'er in reverse and he's gonna get free. This same horse also pulled a very secure ring out of a wall. What'd he learn from it? Pull, and you shall be set free! I've tried numerous ways to try and get him to stop, but the theory and process behind RD's idea makes me think that this may be a changing day for that horse.
I'll be sure to let you all know how it works out.


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## smrobs

kmac, just make sure that he is tied to something that won't break. Like a big heavy post set deeply into the ground.


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## ShutUpJoe

I use a neck tie whenever I am in an area that is not contained. When I did my daughter's party we were near a busy road and I tied with both the neck tie and the halter. I was very afraid she would pull one of the ropes free and run off while we were busy. She did get the halter rope untied but couldn't get the neck tie undone.


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## kmacdougall

smrobs said:


> kmac, just make sure that he is tied to something that won't break. Like a big heavy post set deeply into the ground.


I've got just the thing.. Railroad tie sunk 3 feet! I think it's time for my horse to learn a lesson!


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## JustDressageIt

RiosDad said:


> I will pull off a busy highway into a grass shoulder, one that sort of has a driveway so the horse trailer doesn't go through the ditch. I will unload and tie a horse to each side of the trail. We are maybe 20 feet from a busy highway and we saddle up. Do I really want my horse to suddenly pull back and break free?? What would happen to him if he suddenly broke free and went flying into traffic ??. If he is so stupid as to fall, which I have never seen happen and he is hung by the neck I will free him using the correct knot on the tie ring and allow him to get up. Again I don't want a halter breaking and him running into certain death.
> When you slip the halter he is still tied by the neck rope so until the head stall is on and throat latch done up he is secure.
> I also trailer to mauls, pick a quiet corner and saddle up and ride out. Again I don't want a run away horse heading across the maul parking lot and onto a busy busy expressway. He will be killed or at the very very least wipe out on the pavement and skin himself up.
> NO when I tie I tie so he stays put no matter what.
> 
> I will go to the beach for the day and leave him tied in the camping area and only ask someone to keep a eye on him but I expect nothing to require assistance. I do tie and camp for 3 days.


I understand your situation, and it is very different than mine - when I tack up, I am tying my horse on pavement, which is quite slick. 
Anyways, my point is that we're coming from slightly different worlds; I can understand where you're coming from regarding the neck-rope, and I would be intrigued to use one if the situation ever arose that I needed to use one


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

ridergirl23 said:


> haha yes, i had her pull a few times after that, but now i could tie her with yarn and she would think it was unbreakable and never pullon it, haha even though i still use my rope halter (gawd, i love that thing, its just great. haha)


Yes I could tie with a piece of yarn too but what IF. What if someone did something that spooked the horse and it broke your piece of yarn?? The horse would be ruined for future tying.
'It is safer to always always tie well . Treat it as if today something will come along and spook the horse.

I learned the hard way. May 24 weekend a few years ago, 4 horses tied securely and someone let a rocket go straight up above the horses not 100 feet away. All 4 horse hit the tie, I jumped out of bed and ran out in my underware yelling at the idiots who were celebrating May 24 in a horse camp. None of the horse broke free but what if they weren't tied securely?? We could have had a horse or two run madly through the camp taking other horses with them.

NO every single time I tie I tie as if today is the day the horse ties to break free.. Tied that way you never have an accident and your horse never picks up the bad habit of fighting the tie.


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## kevinshorses

RiosDad said:


> You pull on the pol and my neck rope pulls a couple of inches lower down?? What is the difference?? A couple of inches.
> 
> My neck rope is 5/8th soft rope, every part of it unbreakable. Is your halter that tuff, is the lead rope that strong??
> Mine cost under $15 and easy to make. I don't buy them.


I pulled a pickup out of the mud with a rope halter and it didn't break. It fit a little funny because one side was streched but it didn't even have a worn spot. I agree with you about letting a horse get away when it pulls back. I will take my chances with the horse hurting itself fighting.


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## Lonestar22

We use neck ties on our show cattle, but i have never used one on a horse. this is something I will have to look into. I think it's a great concept. Does a nylon neck tie work just as well or is it more likely to break than a rope neck tie?


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## kitten_Val

I personally don't use it, but I've seen it, and whenever I buy one of those 10-12 ft lead ropes at the local auction it has the ring installed already for such tie.


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## mom2pride

Personally I've not used a neck rope in 'normal' situations; Now I DO have a filly here where I work who likes to sit back every once in a while on the lead...not because she's been abused, or has ever gotten loose, I just believe she does it because 'she can'...so I like to put a neck rope on her along with a halter, to avoid any chance of her getting loose. She's been taught to ground tie, and cross, and normal tie, and she's the one who I basically had to let 'fight it out' because she chose to do it that way. With the neck rope on she rarely ever tries to sit back.


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## nrhareiner

I have a neck rope hanging in my tack room. I find they are very good tools to have around. If I need one it is there. They are easy to make and if you want to use them like a regular lead you can. 

My stallion can literally pull my track and trailer back wards if he wishes. That is very hard on halters. Once he brakes a halter and he knows he can and he gets a hair up his rear he will get loose every time. I use a neck rope for a time and he gets over it. 

I agree better safe then sorry.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Any particular reason my post got deleted? :-| I was unaware we were no longer allowed to question RiosDad.


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## Squeak

I too live in Amish country.

I wouldn't say all Amish here use neck ties, but i see them a lot.

I have one, but never even thought about using it.

Now i think i'm going to try. I have a 2 year old who still pulls back and tests the tie, especially when away from the herd. She's never gotten loose, thankfully. But maybe from now on i'll use the neck tie that i forgot i had until i read this.

Great info, but i'm sure it's not right for everyone and every situation.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Any particular reason my post got deleted? :-| I was unaware we were no longer allowed to question RiosDad.


You certainly can question me. The whole post was deleted but came back with modifications. Some post were deleted to try and keep peace.

I remember your post. My guy ties really well but that is because every time, every time he is tied he is tied proper and solid. He could be tied 1000 times but come the 1001st time he might decide today is the day and he will not win. I just won't take a chance on not tying properly.

Yes he ground ties really well, cross ties and hobbles but every horse needs to solid tie really well.

So to answer your deleted post, yes he ties well but I never take the chance by not tying properly.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

My endurance horse spending a cold miserable night on a ride. This is my high line with a neck rope.


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## mom2pride

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Any particular reason my post got deleted? :-| I was unaware we were no longer allowed to question RiosDad.


Didn't see your question...so couldn't say! :-|

And I agree with Squeak, it's a great tool, but I wouldn't want to see a total greenhorn tying their horse up with nothin but a neck rope...


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

Squeak said:


> Great info, but i'm sure it's not right for everyone and every situation.


I'm glad I got you thinking.
Why would it not be right for everyone in every situation?? Do people honestly want their horses to pull back and break free?? If not then the neck rope is a good way to go to secure a horse and quarantee it's remaining tied.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

Lonestar22 said:


> We use neck ties on our show cattle, but i have never used one on a horse. this is something I will have to look into. I think it's a great concept. Does a nylon neck tie work just as well or is it more likely to break than a rope neck tie?


Actually alot of the amish use the neck strap too instead of the rope. the strap works fine. Try it but remember to pass the strap through the halter to keep the head in alignment if the horse pulls.


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## JustDressageIt

RiosDad said:


> I'm glad I got you thinking.
> Why would it not be right for everyone in every situation?? Do people honestly want their horses to pull back and break free?? If not then the neck rope is a good way to go to secure a horse and quarantee it's remaining tied.


A good way, perhaps, but certainly not the only way  More than one way to skin a cat...


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## MaggiStar

Id never even heard of neck tying until now and i wish i had!
Last summer one of our horses was tied up standard - halter and rope- when a large truck went by with empty kegs bashing around in it. The little 4year old was ery flighty and nervous so as the truck spooked him, he brke the tie got out of the yard and onto a road where he was hit and killed. If his halter hadnt broken he never would have been killed.

Definiely going to get my parents to look into neck ropes for the farm now.


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## Honeysuga

IMO-
+Informative post on Norvals part- yes
+useful- yes
+a good way to tie- yes
+are alll the amish wrong- not one bit, though I do not agree with using a pulley to gain more leverage on a fiery hoirse with a "hard mouth", that is pooey IMO now to add, are the amish the best horsemen ever- not at all, are they good horsemen- yes for the most part
+better than a halter or rope halter- why of course nio, each has its pluses and minuses, to each his own.
+the only way to properly tie a horse- most definitely not

I personally use both ways to tie just depending if I care to grab the rope halter or if I just want a quick catch and tie sorta thing..

Nice post Norval!


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## Phaeton

One thing about the Amish that leave their horses hitched to the wagon while they leave is it's just not safe.


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## Honeysuga

It isnt really as unsafe as you would think, these horses have been left like that their entire lives and are usually dead broke... It takes a lot to make one of them spook and hurt themselves.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

Phaeton said:


> One thing about the Amish that leave their horses hitched to the wagon while they leave is it's just not safe.


It might actually hold the horse in a straight line while tied up. They can not swing their butts left or right because of the shalfs. They can only pull back. You seldom read about an accident with a horse breaking loose and running away. It wouldn't be practical to constantly unhook the buggy every time they tie up. They run all over the place and just stop the same as we park our cars. There are hitching rails all over the place. Even my dentist has a hitching rail


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## Honeysuga

RiosDad said:


> Even my dentist has a hitching rail


 Tehee!


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

Honeysuga said:


> It isnt really as unsafe as you would think, these horses have been left like that their entire lives and are usually dead broke... It takes a lot to make one of them spook and hurt themselves.


I am not so sure they are dead broke. I drop into the public barns at the market and some of them act half wild. They don't stand, they paw, they rock back and forth. I stay far away from some of them for fear I will start frighten the horse. The amish I talked to Tuesday used pulley to control his horse.
NO alot of them are not that well behaved.


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## kmacdougall

RiosDad said:


> Actually alot of the amish use the neck strap too instead of the rope. the strap works fine. Try it but remember to pass the strap through the halter to keep the head in alignment if the horse pulls.


Ok, if I put a standard leadrope snap on the end, how am I going to fit it through his halter? He wears a Walsh Sportsman 3/4in leather halter, and I know a leadrope snap like the picture of the one attached (I know I have one of these snaps hanging around my barn) won't go through the ring under his chin. Where else should I put it? 
Also, RD, your talk of the Amish makes me think I've figured out what part of Ontario you live in hahah. I have family around there!

http://www.cheshirehorse.com/cw3/assets/product_full/fabtroncottonlead.jpg


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## RadHenry09

Rio, 

I have seen the neck ropes used but never have seen a horse tied with one. I have seen them used to lead horses in from the pasture or to catch a loose horse w/o grabbing a halter etc...

How do you make them? Can you buy them that way with the ring attached or how to do you attach the ring so it can be snapped? Would you leave the halter on while the neck rope is on?
I have a lot of questions....If I would ever want to tie my horses up like this I would want to make sure I am doing it correctly as to not endanger my horses or anyone else for that matter.
I use crossties sometimes with the halter or single tie with a halter. One of my horses used to be really bad about pulling back. I used the Blocker tie ring and that seemed to help him a lot as it gave with him if he pulled back.
I would see how that(blocker tie ring) wouldnt be safe if you are tying horses next to the a busy highway though.

I am actually pretty interested in learning how to use the neck rope correctly...


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## wild_spot

> Ok, if I put a standard leadrope snap on the end, how am I going to fit it through his halter? He wears a Walsh Sportsman 3/4in leather halter, and I know a leadrope snap like the picture of the one attached (I know I have one of these snaps hanging around my barn) won't go through the ring under his chin. Where else should I put it?


Try threading the end without the clip through :]


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## wild_spot

> How do you make them? Can you buy them that way with the ring attached or how to do you attach the ring so it can be snapped? Would you leave the halter on while the neck rope is on?
> I have a lot of questions....If I would ever want to tie my horses up like this I would want to make sure I am doing it correctly as to not endanger my horses or anyone else for that matter.
> I use crossties sometimes with the halter or single tie with a halter. One of my horses used to be really bad about pulling back. I used the Blocker tie ring and that seemed to help him a lot as it gave with him if he pulled back.
> I would see how that(blocker tie ring) wouldnt be safe if you are tying horses next to the a busy highway though.
> 
> I am actually pretty interested in learning how to use the neck rope correctly...


You can do it with a normal 12 foot yacht rope lead. Just tie a knot at the right kength and clip underneath it so it can't tighten like a noose.

You should always have a halter on and thread the rope through the ring in the halter before tying - It means the horses head stay in alignment when pulling which reduces the chances of injury or the horse slipping the rope.

You can also use a rope cinch the right length or a hessian sack folded correctly if you are sure they will pull back and want to disperse the pressure somewhat. Again you need the lead/rope that is coming from the neck strap to thread through the ring on the halter and then tie.

Hessian sack type:








http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee184/wild_spot/latte.jpg

A commercially made fleecy neck collar (This horse should be tied higher and shorter though):


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## kmacdougall

K my next question about this - my horse will stand tied but not always, which is a bigger problem then if he was just a flat out puller, because then at least I'd know for sure. Should I tie him and leave him (with water of course) for about an hour or two to see if he gets bored enough to challenge the rope? Or just carry a neck rope to every horse show, trail ride, lesson, etc, until he finally challenges it and realizes he has to stand tied? I'd like to NOT have to use a neck rope every time I tie for the simple reason that I may not have one on hand every time I tie.


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## WSArabians

Hey, where did MY question go? That was serious, **** it. LOL

Rio, tell me about that horse in your avatar. He's gorgeous and I wanna know.


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## wild_spot

> K my next question about this - my horse will stand tied but not always, which is a bigger problem then if he was just a flat out puller, because then at least I'd know for sure. Should I tie him and leave him (with water of course) for about an hour or two to see if he gets bored enough to challenge the rope? Or just carry a neck rope to every horse show, trail ride, lesson, etc, until he finally challenges it and realizes he has to stand tied? I'd like to NOT have to use a neck rope every time I tie for the simple reason that I may not have one on hand every time I tie.


Personally, I don't intentionally 'set-up' situations for my horses, I deal with things as they crop up, so personally, I would use a neck rope/strap. I would use my regular 12 foot lead so I would always have it.

However, I think Riosdad does differently and so do many, so leaving him tied until he does choose to fight it may be a good plan for you. However - not all horses are cured with one fight and one loss. Latte has tested the neck strap at least four times so far and I don't doubt she will continue to for some time.


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## NorthernMama

Aw... I tried to Multi-quote and it didn't work... Two things I remember from the posts above:

1. Someone said (s)he wouldn't always tie with a neck rope because she might not always have one on hand. Why not? If you have a halter, lead rope, bridle, saddle, first aid... why not have a neck rope on hand or double the lead rope as your neck rope.

2. RiosDad, I always tied with a neck rope but without the halter. I was always a bit concerned about the side-ways pull on the neck rope, so I tied rather loosely so I could quickly release the horse and move with her if she spooked (again). But now that I see and read this, I'm much more inclined to tie this way from here on in: with the rope going through the halter ring. Makes all kinds of sense to keep the horse in line if it pulls as you indicated. Especially if I go somewhere public, I'm going with this. Time to dig out my neck rope again and use it properly!


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

Guys I don't have time this morning for this but I promise to run a seperate post on HOW TO MAKE A NECK ROPE. It is very simple and costs very little. I will take close up pictures with deal today or tomorrow.

I always always tie with a neck rope. IF the horse is tied he is wearing a neck rope. To break pullers I don't necessary tie them and walk away. I just use the neck rope for regular brushing or saddling and IF the horse pulls don't release it , just step back, let the horse pull and go back to brushing etc when the horse quits.

YOu must wear a halter with a neck rope to hold the alignment of head and body. The only time you have only the neck rope is when you are installing the bridle. Slip the halter leaving the neck rope around the neck and put on the bridle, the horse i still contained.

Again later today or tomorrow I will show how to make your own neck rope with pictures.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

WSArabians said:


> Hey, where did MY question go? That was serious, **** it. LOL
> 
> Rio, tell me about that horse in your avatar. He's gorgeous and I wanna know.


Rio is gorgous. I can't find a flaw in him and I have owned him for 1 1/2 years. No flaw in his build, no flaw in his caracter.

His father is True Colors. Google him
His grandpaw is Diablo or something like that. When you google True colors his grandpaw will show up.


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## Phaeton

According to the American Driving Society and CAA and every driving group I know of you don't leave a horse hitched to a wagon and tied up you don't do this. If you were at s show and did this judges would be all over it and might throw you out. Sure it takes more time but its safety first. Have you ever seen a runnaway with a carriage and no driver. I have seen this where lots of people got hurt. It's not like just a runaway horse


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## JustDressageIt

Phaeton said:


> According to the American Driving Society and CAA and every driving group I know of you don't leave a horse hitched to a wagon and tied up you don't do this. If you were at s show and did this judges would be all over it and might throw you out. Sure it takes more time but its safety first. Have you ever seen a runnaway with a carriage and no driver. I have seen this where lots of people got hurt. It's not like just a runaway horse


 
Thank you for weighing in, Phaeton. 
RiosDad, I'm sure you know that while the Amish do a lot of things right, they are people too and can (and do) do things wrong. 
I've always said "you can do the same thing wrong for 50 years, and it doesn't mean a blasted thing other than you've been doing something wrong for 50 years."
I can understand the neck rope and have no problems with it in certain situations. It is a good device for some horses in some situations, to be sure... but it is not for every horse and every situation.


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## kevinshorses

Phaeton said:


> According to the American Driving Society and CAA and every driving group I know of you don't leave a horse hitched to a wagon and tied up you don't do this. If you were at s show and did this judges would be all over it and might throw you out. Sure it takes more time but its safety first. Have you ever seen a runnaway with a carriage and no driver. I have seen this where lots of people got hurt. It's not like just a runaway horse


When you are doing something in a competition or for fun you can do things differently. These Amish use thier horses every day and they are an important part of thier lives. They are not just play things. If they tie thier horses up properly to a sturdy rail then they don't have to worry about a runaway carriage with no driver. If I had to take someones word for it I would rely on the word of the people that use thier animals in the real world and depend on them long before I would take the word of an organization of amatuer enthusiests regardless of the acronyms they use.


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## charlicata

Excellent thread! I'm looking forward to seeing how to make one properly. I used to own a horse that once pulled so hard on his lead and halter, which was tied to the trailer (looked like a built in U-bolt), that it actually bent the tie and dented the trailer. Thank GOD that the halter or lead didn't break, he would have gotten run over for sure. Still haven't figured out what spooked that horse.


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## trailhorserider

I've never seen nor heard of tying a horse with a neck rope with a halter. What a cool idea! The only thing I have seen similar are those "grooming collars" you sometimes see in catalogs. 

But the neck rope idea is great, I can't believe I have never seen this before. Sometimes out on the trail I will tie with a halter, but I am always worried an itchy horse will rub it off. So this will give a kind of double-safety for a horse tied out on the trail.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

charlicata said:


> Excellent thread! I'm looking forward to seeing how to make one properly. I used to own a horse that once pulled so hard on his lead and halter, which was tied to the trailer (looked like a built in U-bolt), that it actually bent the tie and dented the trailer. Thank GOD that the halter or lead didn't break, he would have gotten run over for sure. Still haven't figured out what spooked that horse.


I already run the post on HOw to make a neck rope. It shows a simple method to make one.
I don't rely on a halter and lead ever. Also my hooks on the trailer and extremely strong. I built the trailer and made sure they were heavy and welded on strong. I even have a heavy duty tie ring on the truck so if I want to tie the horse to the back of the truck he can not break it. I often saddle out of the back of the truck but ground tie 99% of the time but the solid ring is there if I decide to use it.


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## Phaeton

kevinshorses said:


> When you are doing something in a competition or for fun you can do things differently. These Amish use thier horses every day and they are an important part of thier lives. They are not just play things. If they tie thier horses up properly to a sturdy rail then they don't have to worry about a runaway carriage with no driver. If I had to take someones word for it I would rely on the word of the people that use thier animals in the real world and depend on them long before I would take the word of an organization of amatuer enthusiests regardless of the acronyms they use.


It is common sense to disconnect your horses from the carriage don't beleive me check with someone who drives besides the Amish. My concern is that somebody thinks it's ok to do this. These Carriage Association of Ameria and the American Driving Society are orgainzations are for people who drive or want to learn. I drive and have been driving for over thirty years. Saftey first.I take it you don't drive.


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## IslandWave

I'm reading an older horse book published in 1979. It's called "A Basic Guide to Horse Care and Management" by Barbara Carne and Bruce Mills. As I came to the section where they talked about "Halter Pulling" I wondered if they would mention a neck rope. They didn't, but instead suggested using a body rope. Has anyone heard of or used this before? 

Here's what the books says:
_"...tie him in the usual manner... Then, get another sturdy cotton rope and tie one end with a slip knot around his girth. Run the other end through the horse's front legs, then the halter ring and tie it securely to the post._
_Whenever the horse pulls back, the rope around the girth will tighten, making it uncomfortable for him. When he quits pulling, the rope will loosen, easing the pressure on his girth._
_We've never known this procedure to fail, but we do know of a mare that wouldn't pull when tied with a body rope, but would when tied without it! At least the body rope kept the mare from pulling when we didn't want her to. Most horses aren't this clever, however, and using a body rope two or three times should do the trick."_


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## kevinshorses

Phaeton said:


> It is common sense to disconnect your horses from the carriage don't beleive me check with someone who drives besides the Amish.


 
Who better to take advice from than the Amish. I wouldn't ask them for dance steps or views on geo-politics but I think working horses in harness is in thier realm of expertise. I see your point that you wouldn't want new drivers that don't have horses as well trained as the Amish to be tying them up while hitched to the cart at a show. It has been my experience that if you work a horse to the point of being truely tired on a regular basis most of the fiddgeting and restlessness goes out of them and they are content to stand where they are tied. I have some experience with draft horse teams that are used to feed cattle and they are regularly tied while a tractor is used to load the wagon but they are tied correctly to posts that are not going to move.


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## smrobs

The way they do things isn't necessarily what is "right" for everyone. My family has been training and using teams (horses and mules) for everything from farm work with horse drawn implements to parades and hay rides for generations. It may make sense to you to unhook everytime you tie for safety reasons. However, there are also reasons for a horse to learn to stand tied while still hooked to the carriage/wagon/sulky or whatever you have them harnessed to. It helps teach the horse to stay calm while in the harness if they have to stand still for a length of time. Plus, there are certain instances when time simply doesn't allow for unhitching every time you stop and leave them unattended for more than a couple of seconds. It is a very important training tool that we use on all our young teams. They have a nice work and after they are driven home, they are given a drink of water and then tied while still harnessed for anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours. When they are standing calmly together, then they are unhitched and turned loose. It is the same philosophy behind riding a horse and then leaving it tied with the saddle on, it just seems to do wonders for their temperment while tacked up. 

I honestly believe that doing that is one reason why we have never had to have a "header" for a team that was more than very green broke.


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## mls

JustDressageIt said:


> I can understand the neck rope and have no problems with it in certain situations. It is a good device for some horses in some situations, to be sure... but it is not for every horse and every situation.


Or some horses in ANY situation.

It really doesn't matter what a horse is tied with or what it is tied to. Should it spook bad enough it wants to give into the flight instinct, it's going to pull. Personally would rather have the horse break a lead, snap, halter, ring on the trailer, etc than it's neck, leg or back.


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## Silvera

IslandWave said:


> I'm reading an older horse book published in 1979. It's called "A Basic Guide to Horse Care and Management" by Barbara Carne and Bruce Mills. As I came to the section where they talked about "Halter Pulling" I wondered if they would mention a neck rope. They didn't, but instead suggested using a body rope. Has anyone heard of or used this before?
> 
> Here's what the books says:
> _"...tie him in the usual manner... Then, get another sturdy cotton rope and tie one end with a slip knot around his girth. Run the other end through the horse's front legs, then the halter ring and tie it securely to the post._
> _Whenever the horse pulls back, the rope around the girth will tighten, making it uncomfortable for him. When he quits pulling, the rope will loosen, easing the pressure on his girth._
> _We've never known this procedure to fail, but we do know of a mare that wouldn't pull when tied with a body rope, but would when tied without it! At least the body rope kept the mare from pulling when we didn't want her to. Most horses aren't this clever, however, and using a body rope two or three times should do the trick."_


I have used a body rope to start a young (under 1yr) colt. It was good because the pressure was distributed around his body instead of his still growing and strengthening neck. I ended up buying a longer rope and just making a lead rope out of it. It does do the job really well, he now stands like a rock when he is tied (he is 3yrs old now)

I think a body rope is great for really young horses but anything over 1.5yrs old should be fine learning on a regular halter/neck rope or whatever you will tie with in the future.


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## ridergirl23

^thats really cool! a body rope... never heard of one of those!!


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## IslandWave

Thanks for the insight, Silvera!


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## Silvera

No problem, they are really easy to use. You just make a loop around where the girth goes and tie a knot (that won't slip like a bowline) underneath them. You then run the rest through their front legs, through the loop in the halter and tie it to a post.


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## nrhareiner

Being that there are a lot of Amish here in the state that I live in most of our laws are such that encompass them. Of all my years living here and being a state trooper I have yet to see or hear of a buggy horse getting loose and running down the rode. I am sure there have been but not that I ever have seen come accost the wire at the post. Now them getting pulled over for drunk driving YES. Getting rear ended YES. It would be impractical for them to un hitch their horses. If the horse gets loose they get loose buggy or not. Same as when I show or go out with my horses I do not un tack them when I am in between rides or classes.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

nrhareiner said:


> Being that there are a lot of Amish here in the state that I live in most of our laws are such that encompass them. Of all my years living here and being a state trooper I have yet to see or hear of a buggy horse getting loose and running down the rode. I am sure there have been but not that I ever have seen come accost the wire at the post. Now them getting pulled over for drunk driving YES. Getting rear ended YES. It would be impractical for them to un hitch their horses. If the horse gets loose they get loose buggy or not. Same as when I show or go out with my horses I do not un tack them when I am in between rides or classes.


How do they tie their horses?? Neck rope or halter???

I too have never heard of an amish man loosing his horse and buggy because they broke loose but only because of an accident involving a motor vehicle and horse/buggy while driving down the road.


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## nrhareiner

Most of the ones I have seen have had neck ropes. 

Even in some of my old family pictures of horses tied to the back of a buggy or wagon they are tied with neck ropes. I find them very handy. I personally do not use them all that much but then I do not take my horses to places that they are needed. However I do keep one with me in my trailer and I do use them with my stallion. He was abused when he was a baby and has 5 fussed vertebra when his owner at the time decided to cross tie him and beat him. He flipped and was injured. Now at times he reverts back to pulling. I have found that the neck rope works very well and he stops pulling when he finds he can not get loose and that is that. If he gets loose then it makes thing worse and he tries more.


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## xLaurenOscarx

Ive never heard/seen a neck rope before in my life.
Ive always tied up with headcollar and lead rope if I have to.
I prefer the fact they break if theres a struggle.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

xLaurenOscarx said:


> Ive never heard/seen a neck rope before in my life.
> Ive always tied up with headcollar and lead rope if I have to.
> I prefer the fact they break if theres a struggle.


I've asked over and over again "why do you want the horse to break loose?"
All you are doing is teaching a horse to continue to struggle throughout it's life.. If you go to a show how do you tie the horse between classes?? How do you tack up if you trailer to another place to trail ride??
How would you ever camp over night??

The " how would you " can go on and on.

Teach a horse to tie anywhere, anytime and if he struggles so what?? They don't break their necks that easy and a well tied horse is a safe horse.

What if you horse breaks loose and then takes off running towards the road?? Is that better then a good solid tie and the horse remaining tied???

I just don't see it??


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## kevinshorses

I agree! If my horse is going to get hurt I would rather it get hurt and remained tied where I can see it than break away unharmed and end up hit by a car a mile away or worse, hurt a person that is just minding thier own business.


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## xLaurenOscarx

RiosDad said:


> I've asked over and over again "why do you want the horse to break loose?"
> All you are doing is teaching a horse to continue to struggle throughout it's life.. If you go to a show how do you tie the horse between classes?? How do you tack up if you trailer to another place to trail ride??
> How would you ever camp over night??
> 
> The " how would you " can go on and on.
> 
> Teach a horse to tie anywhere, anytime and if he struggles so what?? They don't break their necks that easy and a well tied horse is a safe horse.
> 
> What if you horse breaks loose and then takes off running towards the road?? Is that better then a good solid tie and the horse remaining tied???
> 
> I just don't see it??


Becuase if they dont break loose they rear up and fall over. Not fun. Id rather them break the rope then have to be put down.
I put a headcollar and lead rope on over his bridle and tie him to string.
I throw a bridle on.
If my horse breaks loose and runs down a road then he breaks loose and runs down a road. Good solid tie and he ends up flipping over?
I dont see your point and I dont see how its great. I personally think its stupid but thats just my opinion.


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## wild_spot

You really think every horse who pulls back and doesn't get loose will rear and flip?

I've actually never ever seen that happen, and i've seen lots of pullers.


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## xLaurenOscarx

wild_spot said:


> You really think every horse who pulls back and doesn't get loose will rear and flip?
> 
> I've actually never ever seen that happen, and i've seen lots of pullers.


Not every horse obviously but why chance it when you can prevent it?
I have.


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## kevinshorses

I have not seen many horses flip over if they are tied correctly. There is not enough rope. Of the ones I have seen that fought hard enough to injure themselves and flop around on the ground, most have learned that if they pull hard enough they will get loose because a well-meaning soul like yourself tied them so they could get away. A horse pulls back initially because it is scared but it keeps pulling because it learns that is a good way to get loose.

When I was a boy my dad had a horse that was given to him because it was very prone to pulling back. That horse might stay tied to a fence for an hour then out of the blue pull back and break things. One day he pulled a rail of a fence and flattened my dad so my dad fashioned up what he called a war-bridle(there are several variations of this that are all called the same thing) out of an old lariet and tied the horse to a huge cottonwood tree that grew in the middle on the corral. Then we rode off and went about our work packing salt to the cattle. My dad didn't care if that horse was alive when we came back or not because it was a menace to have around and had missed permanently injuring him by inches. When we came back The horse was upright and sound but there was as much skin missing from his head as there was bark from the tree. That horse had fought several times in the 8-10 hours that we were gone and had never won a single round. We owned that horse for several more years and I NEVER saw him pull a lead rope tight again.


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## Honeysuga

If a horse is pulling at a rope, it is at the end of said rope, usually with its neck fully extended and feet planted. This makes it very difficult for even a panicked horse to rear even the slightest when tied properly, not to mention if it is indeed tied properly, the rope itself would prevent it from getting off the ground enough for a rear that could flip it over.


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## xLaurenOscarx

kevinshorses said:


> I have not seen many horses flip over if they are tied correctly. There is not enough rope. Of the ones I have seen that fought hard enough to injure themselves and flop around on the ground, most have learned that if they pull hard enough they will get loose because a well-meaning soul like yourself tied them so they could get away. A horse pulls back initially because it is scared but it keeps pulling because it learns that is a good way to get loose.
> 
> When I was a boy my dad had a horse that was given to him because it was very prone to pulling back. That horse might stay tied to a fence for an hour then out of the blue pull back and break things. One day he pulled a rail of a fence and flattened my dad so my dad fashioned up what he called a war-bridle(there are several variations of this that are all called the same thing) out of an old lariet and tied the horse to a huge cottonwood tree that grew in the middle on the corral. Then we rode off and went about our work packing salt to the cattle. My dad didn't care if that horse was alive when we came back or not because it was a menace to have around and had missed permanently injuring him by inches. When we came back The horse was upright and sound but there was as much skin missing from his head as there was bark from the tree. That horse had fought several times in the 8-10 hours that we were gone and had never won a single round. We owned that horse for several more years and I NEVER saw him pull a lead rope tight again.


 
8-10hours:O no wonder the horse was fighting! Id go mad if i was made stand in the same place for 8 - 10 hours!


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## kevinshorses

My horses need to stand for however long I want them to stand. He was fighting because he had learned that he could get loose and tying him to the tree was the only thing that saved his life. Meat horses brought good money in those days and that was where he would have gone.


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## xLaurenOscarx

kevinshorses said:


> My horses need to stand for however long I want them to stand. He was fighting because he had learned that he could get loose and tying him to the tree was the only thing that saved his life. Meat horses brought good money in those days and that was where he would have gone.


Well 8-10 hours isnt fair! Why would you need a horse to stand still for that amount of time? Would you not just put him in the field/stall untill you needed him?
becuase he wouldnt stand still for 8-10 hours? Woah thats just not right! I dont know any horse who would stand still for that amount of time!


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## Honeysuga

Fair? Kevins horses are not little back yard pets, they are working animals. They are well cared for and expected to do what he needs to have done, if that requires 8-10 hrs of standing so be it. I stand for at least 8hrs a shift when I work, is that unfair to me? No, I get paid to do it. I think you need to rethink fair deary.


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## xLaurenOscarx

Honeysuga said:


> Fair? Kevins horses are not little back yard pets, they are working animals. They are well cared for and expected to do what he needs to have done, if that requires 8-10 hrs of standing so be it. I stand for at least 8hrs a shift when I work, is that unfair to me? No, I get paid to do it. I think you need to rethink fair deary.


Fair enough there working animals but 8-10 hours? Thats not fair!
Yeah you chose to stand for 8 hours those horses dont.
Deary?


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## kevinshorses

I think you better re-read my earlier post. The horse was tied for the whole day because he was a danger to be around when he was tied for any lenght of time. He might stand for 5 minutes and pull back or he might stand for 30 minutes. The point is that each time he broke something and got loose the problem got bigger. The lariet was 7/16 inch nylon rope that was immposible for the horse to break and the 60 foot cottonwood sure wasn't going anywhere so the only thing that could change is the horse. Nobody waved sticks at him or did any other kind of non-sense. He had to stand there for so long because that was how much time the work took to get done and my dad figured it was enough time that he would either get over it or kill himself fighting but he couldn't hurt anything else while he worked it out. It worked and the horse was better for it the rest of his life.


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## xLaurenOscarx

kevinshorses said:


> I think you better re-read my earlier post. The horse was tied for the whole day because he was a danger to be around when he was tied for any lenght of time. He might stand for 5 minutes and pull back or he might stand for 30 minutes. The point is that each time he broke something and got loose the problem got bigger. The lariet was 7/16 inch nylon rope that was immposible for the horse to break and the 60 foot cottonwood sure wasn't going anywhere so the only thing that could change is the horse. Nobody waved sticks at him or did any other kind of non-sense. He had to stand there for so long because that was how much time the work took to get done and my dad figured it was enough time that he would either get over it or kill himself fighting but he couldn't hurt anything else while he worked it out. It worked and the horse was better for it the rest of his life.


Fair enough I get teach them to stand still and all that but do you not think 8-10hours would do more harm than good? Do you not think they would associate being tied up with being tied up for hours on end? It didnt happen with that horse but with others.....


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## kevinshorses

No. I wouldn't start tying a horse that was just halter broke for hours but eventually the horse has to learn how to stand tied for however long it is ask. What's time to a horse? Without somekind of visual reference humans can't even tell the passing of time. I see no problem with my horse expecting to be tied up for 20 hours every time he gets tied up. He will stand patiently and be pleasantly suprised when he only has to stand for 2 hours while I load cattle on a truck or some other chore that doesn't require a horse. You seem to be quite young and with a limited amount of experience with horses but when you get older you will realize that things don't always happen like they do in books and movies.


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## xLaurenOscarx

kevinshorses said:


> No. I wouldn't start tying a horse that was just halter broke for hours but eventually the horse has to learn how to stand tied for however long it is ask. What's time to a horse? Without somekind of visual reference humans can't even tell the passing of time. I see no problem with my horse expecting to be tied up for 20 hours every time he gets tied up. He will stand patiently and be pleasantly suprised when he only has to stand for 2 hours while I load cattle on a truck or some other chore that doesn't require a horse. You seem to be quite young and with a limited amount of experience with horses but when you get older you will realize that things don't always happen like they do in books and movies.


Im 17 and have been working around horses since i was 4. Ive more experience than you think


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## smrobs

Considering that loose horses in the pasture generally stand for, what, 15, 18 hours a day, how is making them stand where you want them to stand for a few hours unfair? When I first got my Mustang, he was left tied at all times when I wasn't riding him. He had access to water and a hay bag when tied up for the night but he stayed tied. He fought several times and even ended up down once. All he ended up with was a little rope burn around one leg and a mentality to stay tied calmly, exactly where I want him to, regardless of what I tie him with. 

If a horse gets loose, nothing may happen except you have to chase him down. However, what happens if he ends up in the road and gets hit by a car. Then, not only do you have a horse who is either dead or needs to be put down, but you also have to deal with lawsuits from the driver of the car for property damage or injuries caused by them hitting a loose horse. 99.9% of the time, a horse will stop fighting before they do any real damage to themselves. Sure, they can get hurt fighting a tie but I would much rather deal with just an injured horse rather than injured people too.


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## kevinshorses

Nope. That's about how much I thought.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

xLaurenOscarx said:


> Becuase if they dont break loose they rear up and fall over. Not fun. Id rather them break the rope then have to be put down.
> I put a headcollar and lead rope on over his bridle and tie him to string.
> I throw a bridle on.
> If my horse breaks loose and runs down a road then he breaks loose and runs down a road. Good solid tie and he ends up flipping over?
> I dont see your point and I dont see how its great. I personally think its stupid but thats just my opinion.


 
I've tied lots of horses over the last 50 years and never had a horse hurt in any way. I have never had a horse flip over as you say. My horses can be tied over a long weekend and never cause one single moments problem. We go to the beach and leave them tied for hours without supervision. 
You just don't know how to tie if your horse is flipping over.
Maybe with age, more maturity you will learn IF you listen.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

xLaurenOscarx said:


> 8-10hours:O no wonder the horse was fighting! Id go mad if i was made stand in the same place for 8 - 10 hours!


On rides I tie my string for 3 days and the only time they are off the line is for riding in the race. Horses in alot of barns are tied 24/7 in the same stall and only get out when used


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

xLaurenOscarx said:


> Im 17 and have been working around horses since i was 4. Ive more experience than you think


At 4 you started gaining experience???? Sure you did.

One lady posted that her husband took their one week old baby on the horse. Does that mean when the kid is 5 years old he has 5 years of experience????


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## wild_spot

I wish I had a big tree and suitable area like kevin did - I would tie Latte with a neck collar or rope and leave her there all day, and hopefully it would end the silly business of pulling back she has.

As it is I don't and have to make do with what I have, but it means that as it stands I would not be game to leave her tied out at a competition - And what use is a horse you can't leave tied?

I have a big grudge against whoever taught her she could pull back in the first place - It is a dangerous habit and one that is hard to break.


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## kevinshorses

I'm sure you can find a big tree where you live. The one we used just happened to be in the corral. As long as they can't get loose it doesn't really matter if they are in a corral.


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## Honeysuga

What difference is there in tying for 8 hrs as opposed to standing in a little 10' stall for 24hrs? I know age has little to do with it, but I truly do think as you grow up and spend more adult time with horses you will see things a little more logically.


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## wild_spot

We have plenty of tree, but most aren't mature and the ones that are mature are pine trees that aren't very structurally sound and have broken off branches that could cause injury.

I currently tie her to a tree and she hasn't gotten free, but it is shaped in a way that she can bend around it.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

I built a really good hitching rail, a U shaped hitching rail with 4 good posts and a strong top rail and another rail half way to the ground. Across the front and the sides. On a good pull the load is also transferred to the side rails, the side posts. I feel the hitching rail will stand up to any pull our horses can exert on it and has proven so.
Everyone uses a neck rope and we always tie as if today is the day the horse decides to test the rope.
We always tie the proper length which is about your arm length and of coarse the top of the rail, 3 wraps around the rail and then a proper quick release knot.
If a horse wants to pull I just step back and let them go for it. If it is cause by something I did then you can be sure I will do it over and over.:lol:

On some barns I build a really good U bolt welded to a steel plate, a nice heavy U shape, heavy plate and then lag it really well with 4 big lag bolts into one of the supporting beams on the side of the barn.
Never tie to a board on a fence, a gate or anything else that he could possibley break. Trees are not always easy or handy.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

wild_spot said:


> I wish I had a big tree and suitable area like kevin did - I would tie Latte with a neck collar or rope and leave her there all day, and hopefully it would end the silly business of pulling back she has.
> 
> As it is I don't and have to make do with what I have, but it means that as it stands I would not be game to leave her tied out at a competition - And what use is a horse you can't leave tied?
> 
> I have a big grudge against whoever taught her she could pull back in the first place - It is a dangerous habit and one that is hard to break.


wild-spot make a good neck rope, a heavy rope about 12 feet long, a heavy duty snap and a good 1 1/2 ring and use it every single time you tie her, no matter when, tie her with this rope and make sure the ring on the trailer is really good, unbreakable and just tie her.. Even at home tie her to the trailer and leave her for short periods.
Tie her for saddling, for bathing, for brushing and if she spooks just stand back and when she is done go back to doing what might have upset her.

You can leave her tied at a competition if you tie properly.
Make 2 neck ropes, double them up, 2 neck ropes and she will never be able to break loose.
You can overcome this if you make every tie a good one.
Never get sloppy.


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## wild_spot

Do you have a photo or similar of your hitching rail? Have been thinking about conning dad into building us one but don't have the best land for it. Worth a thought though.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

wild_spot said:


> Do you have a photo or similar of your hitching rail? Have been thinking about conning dad into building us one but don't have the best land for it. Worth a thought though.


Ask and you shall receive. It is 4 posts, short wings to spread the load and give you a place to put your saddle. The rail is in such a way that the pull is against the post and not the bolts.


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## wild_spot

> wild-spot make a good neck rope, a heavy rope about 12 feet long, a heavy duty snap and a good 1 1/2 ring and use it every single time you tie her, no matter when, tie her with this rope and make sure the ring on the trailer is really good, unbreakable and just tie her.. Even at home tie her to the trailer and leave her for short periods.
> Tie her for saddling, for bathing, for brushing and if she spooks just stand back and when she is done go back to doing what might have upset her.
> 
> You can leave her tied at a competition if you tie properly.
> Make 2 neck ropes, double them up, 2 neck ropes and she will never be able to break loose.
> You can overcome this if you make every tie a good one.
> Never get sloppy.


I am always wary of tying to the trailer/float if I think they will pull as I am not sure about it's strength, and have heard horror stories of horses pulling the float over. Obviously that would only happen without it hooked to the car though. Competitions are manageable as we have steel yards mounted on our float, but I would dearly love to be able to tie her.

She has managed to get out of the neck rope by twisting her body around the tree and pulling at a different angle, which slipped it over one ear and then off. Apart from that she has never gotten out of the neck strap. 

If she pulls I do as you said, just step back while she sorts it out, and once she is standing again I go back to what I was doing.

I think it would be a lot more effective if we had a hitching rail where I could tie her higher and she couldn't get at a different angle. The trees around our shed aren't the best for tying but we manage.

I may have another chat to dad about a hitching rail - Only hitch (excuse the pun :]) is that it isn't our property and we may build it and then his boss turns around and says he wants the shed and the rail.


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## wild_spot

Hmmmm. A very good set-up there Riosdad. However I don't think we would have the room for that near our shed, it would have to be a fair bit smaller to fit in the only bits of flat-ish ground. 

Shall have to think about the options.


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## PechosGoldenChance

I've never heard of a neck tie either. I've always just used halters. I wouldn't mind giving the neck tie a try.


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## draftrider

I agree full heartedly that horses should be taught to stand tied. One thing I've noticed, and please correct me if I am wrong, but western trained horses tend to be taught to tie to whatever- and stand tied for hours. English trained horses tend to not be trained to stand tied- they are hand walked, in a stall, or being ridden. They just don't have the expectation that they need to stand tied.

Frankly it is invaluable! This spring in an emergency I had to tie up everyone at once, and what I did was tied them to my big metal hay ring with a round bale inside. No one could drag the hay ring with 2000 lbs of hay in it. They had to stand tied for about 5 hours and did anyone fuss? Nope.

I am building my hitchin rail out of railroad ties and heavy metal brackets that my blacksmith friend is constructing for me. I work with horses that weigh over a ton and it needs to be much stouter than a conventional rail.


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## Silvera

xLaurenOscarx said:


> Becuase if they dont break loose they rear up and fall over. Not fun. Id rather them break the rope then have to be put down.
> I put a headcollar and lead rope on over his bridle and tie him to string.
> I throw a bridle on.
> If my horse breaks loose and runs down a road then he breaks loose and runs down a road. Good solid tie and he ends up flipping over?
> I dont see your point and I dont see how its great. I personally think its stupid but thats just my opinion.


The thing here is that if your horse does get loose and on the road they stand a good chance of being hit. If this happens they will be dead almost for sure. You then must hope that the person driving the car isn't killed also. A few years ago a horse got out around my place and a guy hit it. He was killed instantly, as well as the horse. If your horse gets out and is hit it is your fault and you are liable. Now take if your horse does manage to hurt himself in a tie (but doesn't get himself loose). You can always cut the rope, or if you are using a quick release knot try and untie it like that. Your horse may have some cuts but that's about it. I've had to cut a horse free who was tied to it's tail (I didn't tie it, it was my old boss that trained like that). The horse fell on it's side, face down. We cut her loose and she was fine, not even a single scratch or anything.



xLaurenOscarx said:


> Well 8-10 hours isnt fair! Why would you need a horse to stand still for that amount of time? Would you not just put him in the field/stall untill you needed him?
> becuase he wouldnt stand still for 8-10 hours? Woah thats just not right! I dont know any horse who would stand still for that amount of time!


Life isn't fair, and when it comes to dealling with an animal that is 1000lb + you can't take chances with safety to everyone around them. Lots of people still use standing stalls, the horses are tied whenever they are in the barn. When you are at a show you may end up having them tied for a few hours because of delays. If the horse is fighting the tie then sure it's fine to let them figure it out. They will stop when they are ready, in which case you reward them by untieing. The situation is only as harsh as the horse makes it. Nothing more nothing less. 

I trained a QH a few years ago, he was great, tied very well. After I sold him the owners where moving him from one barn to another. They got him on the trailer and tied but something happen (I don't know what) that made him pull. He broke his lead and halter and took off. Luckily he was fine. A few months later we where at a show with him and his owner, he was tied to the trailer to get saddled. Something spooked him and he pulled back, again he got free and almost killed my foster sister who is autistic. She was well out of the way of the horses and should never have been in danger except for he learned it was ok to pull. So after that he was re-trained how to tie, and was not in a possition where he could ever break free. Now he doesn't fight it and is safe for his owner (who is a 10yr old child)


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## Silvera

draftrider said:


> I agree full heartedly that horses should be taught to stand tied. One thing I've noticed, and please correct me if I am wrong, but western trained horses tend to be taught to tie to whatever- and stand tied for hours. English trained horses tend to not be trained to stand tied- they are hand walked, in a stall, or being ridden. They just don't have the expectation that they need to stand tied.


I have seen the same to be true. I boarded at a barn for a little while that had a good mix of both english and western riders. The western riders, for the most part, tied their horses anywhere. The english riders only ever cross-tied or had the horses in the stall. The barn was thinking of putting in a hitching rail and a few of the english riders said that their horses didn't straight tie, they only cross-tied. The reason they gave for this was because they where "english" horses so wouldn't stand to be straight tied. I always thought that was a little odd...but that's just me.


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## draftrider

I was raised riding Western, the thought of having a horse that didn't stand tied just baffles me.


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## starlinestables

I have a boarder (who rides english lol) who won't tie her horse to anything because the horse pulls back every time. DRIVES ME NUTS! 

I don't know if this has already been said, but for those people who are scare about their horses breaking their neck... Use the same concept but around their girth make it come between their legs and through the halter (keeps the rope in place so they can't get any legs through it). They can NOT break their neck. 

I agree with the above posters.. I don't understand why english people won't teach their horses to tie well! I ride english and ALL of my horses will stand tied all day long if I need them too.


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## ridergirl23

haha I think you guys are stereotyping us English riders! LOL when I tie my horse she fall asleep or stands and looks around. Every English horse I know know to stand nicely for however long, wherever they are tied. Except for one... But the owner is a little quirky, for some reason he stands stock still when he's not tied, but literally tryes to demolish the barn when he is.... I would fix that, but he's 20 yrs old, and not my horse. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner

What I tie to is a 9" Post which is 9 Feet long of which 4 feet is in the ground with over a ton of concrete. It is one of my corner posts for my RAMM fencing. 

I like the looks of what RIOSDAD has. I have thought about making something like that but just have not had a need


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## xLaurenOscarx

RiosDad said:


> At 4 you started gaining experience???? Sure you did.
> 
> One lady posted that her husband took their one week old baby on the horse. Does that mean when the kid is 5 years old he has 5 years of experience????


you gain experiencxe as soon as you get on the horse.
ands no it just means that in those years ive gained a LOT of experience. probably more than you think.


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## roro

I like to get a bit of hay in my horse's stomach before I ride (we board), so I usually tack him up loose in his 12x24 stall and paddock. If that's not needed, I tack up in the cross ties. I know that my trainer sometimes tacks up a horse loose with only a halter on in a stall without any hay, I'd say that's a skill on its own compared to stand tying.


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## mom2pride

When I tie a horse I expect him to stay there, regardless of the 'discipline' I'm involved in...Lol! Not training a horse to tie well is what doesn't make sense to me...


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## kevinshorses

xLaurenOscarx said:


> you gain experiencxe as soon as you get on the horse.
> ands no it just means that in those years ive gained a LOT of experience. probably more than you think.


I think we all understand from your posts how much experience you have.


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## kevinshorses

roro said:


> I like to get a bit of hay in my horse's stomach before I ride (we board), so I usually tack him up loose in his 12x24 stall and paddock. If that's not needed, I tack up in the cross ties. I know that my trainer sometimes tacks up a horse loose with only a halter on in a stall without any hay, I'd say that's a skill on its own compared to stand tying.


I'm not sure I understand how tacking a horse up in a stall is a skill. In fact, I really don't see how tacking a horse up at all is much of a skill. Someone of reasonable intelligence can learn it in 10 minutes.


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## skittle1120

Riosdad - Thank you for posting this, I was at a loss about what to do with my mare pulling when I fly sprayed her until I read this thread. I tied a knot in my lead rope and used it as a neck rope Wednesday when I groomed and fly sprayed, and after she pulled a couple times, she stood licking her lips watching me... A huge improvement over her reaction the last time I went at her with a fly spray bottle...

At what point should I start tying my 3 week old filly? My plan is to use the lead as a body rope, I'm just not sure if I should start now while she's small, or wait till she's a little bigger.


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## themacpack

Unfortunately, skittle, we will no longer benefit from what Rios had to offer as he has been banned.


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## skittle1120

Figures... it always seems to be the helpful ones that get banished.... 
Can anyone else answer my question then?

On a side note, I may have found a trainer for Storm and myself... We'll see how it pans out when I go visit her farm this week... I'm going to see if I can pop in unexpected and get a good look at how she runs things before I turn her loose with my problem child....


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## nrhareiner

With foals I start from day one. They get a halter on and off for the first few days. Then I put a lead on them and let them follow mom. This way they are willing to go but still will get a bit of a tog from the rope. Just make sure you take the rope and halter off before you turn the foal loose. I do not use neck ropes on foals. Only older horses. If you work on this with foals every day by just leading them as they follow mom they will have it down by the time they are a few months old. Once they lead tying is easy as they already give to pressure. By the time the foal is a couple months old they are getting tied next to mom and brushed just for a few min to begin with. By the time they are weaned they will stand tied for as long as you need them to. I have shown weanlings and tied them to the trailer for the whole show with a hay bag with no problems but they learned at home and where solid before they ever left my property.


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## smrobs

I personally don't think a horse can be too young to learn something. Since she is such a baby though, you certainly don't want to leave her tied for more than a few minutes at a time and make sure that momma is there with her. Maybe tie them side by side.


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## skittle1120

Thanhttp://www.horseforum.com/members/6420/ks nrhareiner and smrobs - I had no intention of using a neck rope on her, I don't want her getting hurt. I have been putting a halter on her, but its too large, so I don't leave it on long or tie her with it, I'm just putting it on and taking it off to get her used to me messing with her face. One of the girls I work with is going to bring a bunch of different sized ones in Monday for me to borrow until she grows up, so if she remembers them, I'm going to get started teaching to tie soon.


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## roro

kevinshorses said:


> I'm not sure I understand how tacking a horse up in a stall is a skill. In fact, I really don't see how tacking a horse up at all is much of a skill. Someone of reasonable intelligence can learn it in 10 minutes.


It's not the tacking up part, it was meant as a comparison, as in she tacks up a horse that is loose compared to a western rider tacking up a horse that is tied. I've heard people say that English riders can't get their horses to stand well, which obviously isn't true given my example.


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## xLaurenOscarx

kevinshorses said:


> I think we all understand from your posts how much experience you have.


you've no idea


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## xLaurenOscarx

roro said:


> It's not the tacking up part, it was meant as a comparison, as in she tacks up a horse that is loose compared to a western rider tacking up a horse that is tied. I've heard people say that *English riders can't get their horses to stand well, which obviously isn't true given my example*.


Thats not true. Most of the horses I've tacked up over the years just stand there. Only time I've tied up to tack up was in an exam.


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## Silvera

skittle1120 said:


> Riosdad - Thank you for posting this, I was at a loss about what to do with my mare pulling when I fly sprayed her until I read this thread. I tied a knot in my lead rope and used it as a neck rope Wednesday when I groomed and fly sprayed, and after she pulled a couple times, she stood licking her lips watching me... A huge improvement over her reaction the last time I went at her with a fly spray bottle...
> 
> At what point should I start tying my 3 week old filly? My plan is to use the lead as a body rope, I'm just not sure if I should start now while she's small, or wait till she's a little bigger.


When you get the halter that fits and get them leading a bit then a body rope is a good way to start a young foal. I started my 3yr old tieing with a body rope when he was 7wks old. I got him when he was 6wks old and once he was leading well we tied him that way with mom in hand to keep him calm. Only tie them for a few minutes to start and slowly work your way up.


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## NorthernMama

*Aw... come on...*



themacpack said:


> Unfortunately, skittle, we will no longer benefit from what Rios had to offer as he has been banned.


Incredible. RiosDad is a confident, knowledgeable, well-spoken fellow. He would stand up and yell TRUTH when people didn't want to hear it. I don't think I ever read a truly insulting or rude post from him. Harsh, yes, but that doesn't make it rude. Why don't they ban those poor little wee-wees that get all insulted when anyone blinks the wrong way at them? Or the ones that cry "cruelty" when they don't understand someone else's way of life? I don't post nearly as much as I used to because of this -- and I will definitely miss RiosDad. Well, maybe I will spend less time here too. That's OK; better to spend time out in the real world anyway...


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## paintsrule

^ Ah-greed


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## MyBoyPuck

Wow, bummer to hear about Rios Dad. I agree with Northern Mama. I'd rather be rid of the folks that you have to walk on egg shells around them instead of someone who can be a little harsh but at least has solid info to contribute.


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## HowClever

^^ agreed


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## wild_spot

I quite liked Riosdad and agreed with him on many things - However he also had a tendency to polarise members of the forum and cause quite a ruckus where he went :] All part of the man we liked, but to others, not so much.

I will miss him, but I can see reasons why he was banned.


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## MyBoyPuck

Oh, no arguement there. He sure did like to stir the pot. Made for interesting stuff though. I get really bored at work this time of year, so it helps pass the time.


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## roro

Any member who doesn't follow the rules is up to get infractions, he didn't want to change to follow the rules/didn't like the infractions so he got voluntarily banned. I was disappointed when Mercedes was banned, but forum rules are forum rules.


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## Mingiz

I also live in Amish Country. I have a neck rode. I use it trail riding to tie my horse. It also comes in handy if your reins break. It stays in my saddle bag. :lol:


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## kevinshorses

roro said:


> Any member who doesn't follow the rules is up to get infractions, he didn't want to change to follow the rules/didn't like the infractions so he got voluntarily banned. I was disappointed when Mercedes was banned, but forum rules are forum rules.


He requested that he be banned rather than change the way he conducted himself toward the more mushy mouthed, thin-skinned members of the forum.


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## themacpack

kevinshorses said:


> He requested that he be banned rather than change the way he conducted himself toward the more mushy mouthed, thin-skinned members of the forum.


Knew there was a reason I liked him


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## WSArabians

kevinshorses said:


> He requested that he be banned rather than change the way he conducted himself toward the more mushy mouthed, thin-skinned members of the forum.


Well well said Kevin.


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## roro

kevinshorses said:


> He requested that he be banned rather than change the way he conducted himself toward the more mushy mouthed, thin-skinned members of the forum.


Notice the 'voluntarily' in my post. Mushy-mouthed and thin-skinned members? If he wanted to keep out of trouble on the forum then he should have followed the forum rules, there is no need to call other members mushy mouthed and thin-skinned. Reading them properly may have prevented the whole issue in the first place. I read them before I joined so I knew what I was paying for, so to speak. There are other horse forums that are more lenient about courtesy, this one happens not to be.


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## kevinshorses

I never found much of what he said to be offensive and judging from the replies on this thread I'm not alone. You have made posts that were at least as offensive and rude as anything he ever posted. So have I but I decided to curb my tongue and watch what I say for the priviledge of participating here. Riosdad did not. I kind of admire him for that.


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## roro

If I was offensive and rude as he was, I would have as many infractions as he has had. I have had none since I joined. I was never personally offended by his posts, but some members were and if the team finds the report justified then an infraction is sent.


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## kevinshorses

So how do you know how many infractions he had? Why are you choosing to argue about this? I liked him and you didn't but now he's not on this forum so it makes no difference.


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## roro

I don't. My point was that if my offensiveness and rudeness was equal to his offensiveness and rudeness, our infractions would be equal. However, they are not, since I have had none and he has had at least one. I'm not arguing about liking him or disliking him, I was explaining some of the background to his departure. I believe we can learn lessons from his example.


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## roro

Edit: I did not dislike him, and I don't see how that is implied anywhere in my posts. I was not particularly moved either way from his posts, he didn't really stick out to me.


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## 3neighs

> He requested that he be banned rather than change the way he conducted himself


 This pretty much explains it so let's move on.

​


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## Super Nova

I found the neck rope concept really interesting....not sure if I will use it .....but interesting never the less.

When you talk about not tying properly......the two things that bother me the most about that is tying to a rail.....instead of something more solid (like a post) and not tying high enough.....which is above the wither.

Super Nova


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## SorrelHorse

I like the idea of neck ropes, and some of my horses I wouldn't mind using it.....but I had had several horses who have pulled back and I'm afraid they would strangle themselves if I left them tied at a show to run and grab a bucket of water or got a hot dog or something. I would be especially worried about foals of ******....all have been major pullers and at yearling halter shows I will take all the yearlings I have (I normally sell as two-year-olds and show as yearlings. We normally have three-four babies a year but have been having less and less as the years go on) and if those babies were to pull back on that rope.....I would feel very bad about it. I use a gentle release tie system that hooks to you trailer and if the horse pulls it will release a certain amount so the horse doesn't panic. And I won't leave them alone for a long time its just that the babies are smart and know when I leave for even two minutes to fetch something. 

Maybe on my older horses I wouldn't mind trying it, like on Jester. He's one that I could drop the rope on the ground overnight and come back and he'd be standing in the same exact spot....So maybe I'll go for it on him.


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## Silvera

SorrelHorse said:


> I like the idea of neck ropes, and some of my horses I wouldn't mind using it.....but I had had several horses who have pulled back and I'm afraid they would strangle themselves if I left them tied at a show to run and grab a bucket of water or got a hot dog or something. I would be especially worried about foals of ******....all have been major pullers and at yearling halter shows I will take all the yearlings I have (I normally sell as two-year-olds and show as yearlings. We normally have three-four babies a year but have been having less and less as the years go on) and if those babies were to pull back on that rope.....I would feel very bad about it. I use a gentle release tie system that hooks to you trailer and if the horse pulls it will release a certain amount so the horse doesn't panic. And I won't leave them alone for a long time its just that the babies are smart and know when I leave for even two minutes to fetch something.
> 
> Maybe on my older horses I wouldn't mind trying it, like on Jester. He's one that I could drop the rope on the ground overnight and come back and he'd be standing in the same exact spot....So maybe I'll go for it on him.


If you are worried about hurting their neck then a good alternative is the body rope, you just take a long rope and tie a loop around their body behind the fron legs. It rests where a girth goes. You feed the line through the halter ring and tie it to either a post or trailer, this way if they pull they are going against their body and can't injure their necks.


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