# Arabian breed brand?



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Is it a brand, or a tattoo? Those are two different things.

Arabians aren't generally tattooed, but there's something called freeze branding that used to be very popular. Some big farms may still do it.

If the horse is registered, the freeze brand would be her registration number in Arabic numbers.

My heart horse had a freeze brand. It was an upright A (upright means purebred) with his registration number. If the A is sideways, that means the horse is a Half Arabian.


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

Her brand has alot of numbers/letters. Where she is branded the hair doesn't grow at all. I think with freeze branding it grows in white. She is a flea-bitten grey with a black brand that has a bunch of numbers starting with an A...I think it is on her neck


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

The type of freezebranding which was popular with Arabs some years back, (and which is always done on BLM mustangs that are adopted thru the government, and is still done on Arabs and other breeds at the option of the owner) is done with "kryokinetic" symbols, not arabic numbers. It is a horizontal strip on the upper neck, usually under the mane. 

If you shave the hair short over the brand, can you see geometric lines and symbols? ETA--On grey horses, they do the freezebranding deep enough that the hair does not grow back so the symbols will look black in contrast to the white hair. Here is a key to read this type of freezebranding-- 










And here are some links to help as well---


*http://www.kryokineticsusa.com/Breed%20Alpha%20Symbols.htm*

*http://www.kryokineticsusa.com/State%20Alpha%20Symbols.htm*


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Then she's an Arabian.

If that's her in your avatar, she certainly looks Arabian.

Sometimes the hair grows back and sometimes it doesn't. My bay gelding's freeze brand was white, because the hair grew back in. Your mare's hasn't, which is why it's black; Arabians have black skin.

Tell whoever told you that she's a Standardbred to go pound sand! :wink:

Thanks for the info, East. For some reason I thought they used Arabic numerals, not symbols. Symbols do make more sense!


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

it is definetly numbers and letters


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

Yeah that is my best picture of her so far. Now she has rubbed a bunch of her mane out and put on about 400 pounds and covered herself in pine tree sap. I'm preggers and was sick in bed for a while. I finally started getting back on my feet and wamnted to bring her to the fair but then I went to the farm to see her and there was no way I could get her looking respectable by tommorrow morning.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

In a kryokinetic brand, the "A" for Arabian would be a letter, but the kryokinetic symbols would replace the numbers.

Can you take a photo of the brand and post it?


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

It will take me a few days to get it on here and it is hard to see the letters so I might have to try and clip the hair on her neck shorter to be able to see it clearly. I'm fairly sure it is letters nut just lines but I can't be sure until she is clipped which depending on how things go might take a while. I would really like to figure out her breeding though. When we first got her you couldn't see the brand we hosed her down and brushed her and nothing. Then we washed her with soap and suddenly it was there so there is some suspision of whether or not she may be a stolen horse.


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

Okay I think I copied the shapes out wrong. Because I don't think she was born in 1992 the shapes are hard to make out but I can't figure out what else it would be...But that would make her...17? That doesn't seem right. She was sold as 10 and she definetly doesn't look 17 now that she has weight on her. Her teeth don't look worn/slanted enough for her to be 17 either.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Arabs can sometimes hide their age really really well... but I'm not saying that she really is 17. You also may be right that you've interpreted it incorrectly. It's hard to tell sometimes. We've got a 16 year old warmblood that looks pretty much the same as she did when she was 7.

Have you had a vet's opinion on her age?


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

I haven't had a vet look at her yet. When we got her we had money...Then I got pregnant and couldn't work and now we are more concentrating only on stuff we really really need. And since she is nice and healthy we didn't really worry about her age until now.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

You probably don't really need to worry over her age. As long as she keeps ticking right along, she's fine. That's pretty much my approach with all of our critters.


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

I was hoping I could use the brand to track down her info and get her papers to breed her some day and if she is 17 and healthy I would do it soon if she is 10 and healthy I will wait a few years. I looked at her teeth before I bought her and they definetly don't look like a horse that is 17 they are still fairly straight


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Well... in that case my suggestion would be to concentrate a little more on interpreting that brand for certain to see if you can really tell what year she was born. It helps to clip the area, take a picture, and then invert the colors.


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## reyvin (May 16, 2010)

my horse dentist uses the rib cage to judge the age of a horse after they are 12 yrs old. 

find the rib cage and go down the othe very very last rib you can feel. then see if there is a space your can insert 1-2 fingers into between that rib and the next. at 12 yrs old the ribs seperate every 2 yrs. teeth can lie but the ribs dont he said. and this from a dentist. if you can insert a finger between the last rib and the next the mare is 11, 2 fingers she is 12. then check the space between that rib and the next. so on and so forth. with out ever looking in my horse's mouths he got all their ages dead on using this method. unless they were under 12. 

he said it was a horse traders trick. but its a good way to determine if she is 10 or 12. many folk will tell you a horse is younger then they are so they can move them. 

if you suspect the mare may have been stolen then its best to go see if someone who has listed her as missing/stolen. 

Stolen Horse International, Inc. ~ NetPosse.com Home Page

arabs do keep their age very well. my gelding never looked his age till he hit 25. and he definintly didnt act it till he was 29. the only difference between i have foudn between a 10 yr old horse a 17yr old horse... is nothing. maybe a slight mellowing around the eyes and attitude in a herd situation. 

would love to see pics of her and her tattoo


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

From her photos IMO I see nothing that would keep me from believing she is in her teens. I have 3 mares out here that range from 15 to 18 and they all look younger than their age to most people, especially when they are fat.


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

I guess i'm just really hoping she is only 10.... I know alot of horses are still healthy and strong until they are in their late twenties. Lol, my last pony was 27 and would still jump a 5 foot fence to go galloping through the hay field if he was feeling spunky. But I was just hoping she was only 10 so I could get more years out of her and possibly wait a few years before breeding her.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Usually it has their birth year, and some other stuff within it, BUT, it's also usually in arabic? Or something like that...haha That said, if you were to clip the area, and send it into the Arabian Horse association, they may be able to find her in the system somewhere


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

LOL... horses don't get Tattoos on their necks, they will be inside the upper lip, especially on Standardbreds... your mare has a FREEZEBRAND. My oldest Arabian horse Topez has one as well, it is located on the right side of the neck, he's bay so the freezebrand itself is white.
They USED to freezebrand all purebred Arabians, now with the DNA technology, it is not a common practice. Hope that info. is helpful !

Also they are NOT in Arabic LOL, they are symbols that AHA uses to identify year of birth, reg. # , parentage etc...


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

MOM2pride had a good idea, clip the area close take pix and send to AHA, they are very helpful and you MAY even be able to get her papers, the association will ofen help people get Registration papers that have been lost or not transfered etc... especially horses sold at auction, IF like your horse thst has a freezebrand.

I actually am considering having my stallion freeze branded, he is a very successful show horse and sire, I am thinking about having it done out of concern for him being stolen... we show alot and the security at showgrounds at night isn't always the best, I do sleep in the tack stall alot, however a hotel is wayyy more comfy :wink: especially is we are out of state and at a show for several days ...


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

Freeze branding is used by the Arabian Registry to identify purebred Arabians. It is the same alpha numeric system as BLM mustangs except an "A" is placed in the first position of the system of marks to indicate "Arabian."

Here is the diagram... maybe it will help you read her Brand  Then you can call AHA and give them her reg. # OR you can post it and I will look her up on Datasource and give you all of her info. including and foals and if she has a show record


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## HGEsquire (Feb 21, 2010)

Has the original poster been able to grap a snap shot of the freeze brand as of yet???

Denise Gainey


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Spirit Thyme--Actually most Standardbreds get freeze branded on their necks now a days. My grandparents have had them since before I was born, and almost all of them since I can remember have neck brands. Although occasionally we would purchase a horse that had a lip tat, we would never tat any of our horses there. The race horses have to get the tattoo checked before every race after checking into the paddock, so if say all 12 races had 7 horses each in them (small b circuit track) you could possibly pass whatever the first horse had onto the other 83 horses. I would much rather the paddock judge push back some mane then be looking in my horses mouth....._


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

VelvetsAB said:


> _Spirit Thyme--Actually most Standardbreds get freeze branded on their necks now a days. My grandparents have had them since before I was born, and almost all of them since I can remember have neck brands. Although occasionally we would purchase a horse that had a lip tat, we would never tat any of our horses there. The race horses have to get the tattoo checked before every race after checking into the paddock, so if say all 12 races had 7 horses each in them (small b circuit track) you could possibly pass whatever the first horse had onto the other 83 horses. I would much rather the paddock judge push back some mane then be looking in my horses mouth....._


 I know, I have owned MANY STB's over the years, my second favorite breed


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

HGEsquire said:


> Has the original poster been able to grap a snap shot of the freeze brand as of yet???
> 
> Denise Gainey


Hey GF What's up :lol:


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_haha! Ooops! I went back and reread what I had originally responded to and saw that I misready it.  Sorry Spirit!_


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## qharabluver (Jul 22, 2010)

A mare at the place I rode also had a freeze brand on her neck from when she was on the track.


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

Okay as far as we can tell using that code the numbers translate to

A (9 over a 2) then it is either 292840 or 292850

She is a flea bitten grey mare 14.2 or so hands high

If you could look her up for me that would be awsome I have tried to find a website to look it up on but am having a hard time finding one.


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

VelvetsAB said:


> _haha! Ooops! I went back and reread what I had originally responded to and saw that I misready it.  Sorry Spirit!_


 
:lol: No problem


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

JekkaLynn said:


> Okay as far as we can tell using that code the numbers translate to
> 
> A (9 over a 2) then it is either 292840 or 292850
> 
> ...


I'll check for you, there is a place, it's called Data Source on the AHA site but it costs like $95 per year, I have a subscription


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Yup, like Spirit Thyme said, it is the freeze branding the Arabian horse registry has (or had, I have been out of the loop a few years). It will also tell you if she is purebred or part-bred. My purebred Arabian gelding had a freeze brand, they put it underneath the mane along the neck.


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

Ok with the first #292840 I got this *PIKANTA AHR*292840 Grey 1983*
The second # was a Bay mare...

Sooo I'd say your mare is Pikanta, so she's 27 years old
*Breeder*THE KOSSACK STUD*Owners*JAN MC LEAN 10-November-1990
WAYNE CASSELMAN 20-February-1989
JOE T OGDEN 05-October-1983

*Foal Date*08 Jun 1983*Color*Grey *Gender* Mare *Sire**NAMET*
AVS*2178 Grey 1969*Dam**PIKANTNAIA*
AVS*2111 Grey 1977*Dam's Sire**ASWAN*
RASB*1379 Grey 1958*Parentage*Blood typed.*Status*EXPORTED 

Here's her foals

Horses with bolded names have progeny.
9 records found. Page 1 of 1.
*Name**Number**Foaled**Gender**Color*
*PIKAH* AHR*401402 19 Feb 1988 Mare Bay
*PIKAH AHRA* AVS*5837 19 Feb 1988 Mare Bay 
*PIKAH AHRA* OMAN*251 19 Feb 1988 Mare Bay 
PIKANT AHR*426729 08 Mar 1989 Stallion Grey 
PIKANT CAHR*27878 08 Mar 1989 Stallion Grey
KRYSTAL ECSTACY AHR*452900 12 May 1990 Mare Bay 
KRYSTAL ECSTACY CAHR*27512 12 May 1990 Mare Bay 
*ECSTANTA BL* CAHR*30113 10 Apr 1991 Mare Grey 
SHOR KANN BL CAHR*31516 06 Jun 1992 Gelding Grey


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

I put her on allbreed pedigree for you ! Here's a link to her pedigree, she is VERY well bred, Congrats on owning such a GEM 
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pikanta


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

I know it is a long shot but how old was the bay mare? It's a really long shot but her flea-speckles are reddish, could she have been born a bay and shedded grey as she aged? I just can't rap my head around her being 27!


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

Well weather I like it or not my mare is an old old girl...now what? I had planned on letting her be played with by the kids who watch her for me for a year or two while I have this baby and get my health back in order then starting to ride her but now it is loking like I have once again stumbled into owning a horse I'll never really get to do anything with. By the time I'm healthy enough to ride her she will be really getting on in age and too old to train to show. *Sigh* I seem to have the worst luck with this sort of thing. Yes, she is sweet and I love her but now she is just gonna end up being another pet instead of being my show horse for a couple years and then having a baby that would be my show horse in the future.


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

JekkaLynn said:


> I know it is a long shot but how old was the bay mare? It's a really long shot but her flea-speckles are reddish, could she have been born a bay and shedded grey as she aged? I just can't rap my head around her being 27!


"Reddish Speckles" tell me she was born Chestnut, generally speaking that is.


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

Spirit Thyme said:


> "Reddish Speckles" tell me she was born Chestnut, generally speaking that is.


Sigh wishful thinking on my part it just boggles my mind that she could be 27


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I would not rule out that a flea bit gray house was born a bay. 

It is hard to imagine someone would sell a 27 year old horse as 10. 17 for 10 I can easily see.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Spirit Thyme said:


> "Reddish Speckles" tell me she was born Chestnut, generally speaking that is.


Flea bitten is flea bitten. The 'speckles' are all shades of red/brown.


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

mls said:


> Flea bitten is flea bitten. The 'speckles' are all shades of red/brown.


Actually in my experience ( again GENERALLY speaking  red specks mean born chesnut, black specks born smoky black/dark grey, bay specks born bay...

But it's by no means a rule :wink:


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

Spirit Thyme said:


> "Reddish Speckles" tell me she was born Chestnut, generally speaking that is.


How old was the bay mare? I just can't get it out of my head. We thought the first numbers where 92 which would make her 17. I've seen a few horses misregistered based on colour.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Wow, your mare is really royally bred!! Very nice! Some extremely impressive pure Russian bloodlines and up close..... that mare is a jewel!!!

I had a black-grey Arabian, he was born black-bay (pretty close to black tho), and he later on developed the fleabitten grey pattern, reddish flecks..... so I think it can sometimes happen with any base color.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Spirit Thyme said:


> bay specks born bay...


How does one have bay specks? I assume you mean brown specks. Or do you compare leg speck colors to body speck colors and proclaim the leg speck colors to be black where the body speck colors are brown?
And do we know what shade of bay the bay mare was? Was she a really redish bay?


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## reyvin (May 16, 2010)

sounds pretty hard to determine that an 92 could be mistaken for an 83!! i would check out the bay mare. some people dont always catch the correct color at birth and some greys take years to grey out. so she very well could have been born a bay! i too would like more infor on the bay mare.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Well, that's tough...especially if she is 27...darn; she is nicely bred, but if she's that old, you're right, you may not get to do a whole lot with her  I'd say if she does well with packing the kids around, maybe see if the person who is 'boarding' her, wants to keep her for them? She could definitely still have some good years in her, but at that age, I wouldn't expect her to be fully active as a riding horse anymore.

Oh, and on the flea bitten "thing" never have I seen certain charactoristics in flea bitten-ness, based on the color the horse was when he was born...they have generally, varying shades of brown to black flecking, no matter what color they were.


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> How does one have bay specks? I assume you mean brown specks. Or do you compare leg speck colors to body speck colors and proclaim the leg speck colors to be black where the body speck colors are brown?
> And do we know what shade of bay the bay mare was? Was she a really redish bay?


You are just getting into semantics now :wink:


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## sam8701 (Jul 27, 2007)

Eolith said:


> Arabs can sometimes hide their age really really well... but I'm not saying that she really is 17. You also may be right that you've interpreted it incorrectly. It's hard to tell sometimes. We've got a 16 year old warmblood that looks pretty much the same as she did when she was 7.
> 
> Have you had a vet's opinion on her age?


My mare is 23... i have had people shocked when i tell them, they all say she looks under 10 at the most... i think Arabs are so beautiful they hide their age very well xx


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

If the symbols for the year of birth look like 92, yet the first symbol for her registration number looks like a 2, then one or the other isn't what it looks like.... because an AHA registration number for a horse born in 1992 could not be that low. 

The bay mare that comes up with the other registration number will be about the same age as the 1983 year old grey mare, since their registration numbers are only 10 digits different.... unless one or the other was registered as an adult vs. as a youngster.

Are any of the symbols very very clear, or are any hard to decipher? Any chance of posting a photo?


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

Eastowest said:


> If the symbols for the year of birth look like 92, yet the first symbol for her registration number looks like a 2, then one or the other isn't what it looks like.... because an AHA registration number for a horse born in 1992 could not be that low.
> 
> The bay mare that comes up with the other registration number will be about the same age as the 1983 year old grey mare, since their registration numbers are only 10 digits different.... unless one or the other was registered as an adult vs. as a youngster.
> 
> Are any of the symbols very very clear, or are any hard to decipher? Any chance of posting a photo?


I'll look up the bay.

Please do post a photo of your mare, there are certain things I look at to get an idea of how close in age she would be, certainly I would be able to see something that might help be determine 10 VS 27 

I have been breedings/training horses for nearly 26 years...I was raised on a breeding farm, so if you want to count my childhood, it would be longer :wink:


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

Info. on the bay, she is only 1 year younger...

*FREDRIKHA - AHR*292850*

View Section







Pedigree








Fantasy Pedigree








Horse Markings








Accomplishments








All Sections










* Breeding Entry* *Foal Date*12 Apr 1984*Color*Bay *Gender* Mare *Sire**KHECHISE*
AHR*168606 Bay 1978*Dam**OZ KYLEE*
AHR*214133 Grey 1980*Dam's Sire**OASIS ZANDMAN*
AHR*167081 Bay 1977*Breeder*MORRIS OR PATRICIA CALDWELL*Owners*JANET E STIMMEL 01-December-1994
FRED A OR MONTA L HUNTER 12-April-1984


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## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

Shave her neck under her mane where the markings are, you will be able to see them more clearly! Start at the A and make the shave only as wide as necessary to accurately record the angles. Then please post a picture so we can all verify for you, or correct it!


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

In your avatar photo, the mare does look aged IMHO, and based on both Reg. #'s you provided, she is elderly...

But as I stated, there is NOTHING wrong with that, below is my 27 ( soon to be 28 y/o Stallion Topez ) and he doesn't look or act old at all ! I took this pic of him taking a bow about 4 days ago


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

I agree she looks aged, but if the year symbols distinctly say 92, well that is an 18 year old, and some 18 year olds show some age as well. 

All I am saying is that either the reg. number symbols or the age symbols are being mis-read, as 92 CANNOT be the right foaling year with either number guess given.


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

Maybe I'll get motivated today and shave Topez's neck where his freeze brand is, take a pic and post it so everyone can actually SEE one, since he's bay, it would be easier to read


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## StephSte (Sep 28, 2010)

Some consider the Arabian the most intelligent of all breeds of horse. Its shield-like bulge between the eyes, called the jibbah is said to allow for greater brain capacity. The Arabian possesses a long memory, quick comprehension, alert curiosity, resourcefulness and sociability


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## Spirit Thyme (Sep 14, 2010)

StephSte said:


> Some consider the Arabian the most intelligent of all breeds of horse. Its shield-like bulge between the eyes, called the jibbah is said to allow for greater brain capacity. The Arabian possesses a long memory, quick comprehension, alert curiosity, resourcefulness and sociability


Very well said :d I have worked with MANY breeds over the years and now prefer Arabians because of those very qualities.


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## JekkaLynn (May 21, 2010)

I looked at her teeth and then at a horse I know is 25 and yeah she is definetly 27. 
The girls who ride her wanted to enter a charity ride on the weekened but for that the horse needs a full array of shots and mine only get the flu shot normally and we get the shot from my vet friend and administer it ourselves so I had them call the vet they normally take their animals to and have him come out. (my friend works mostly with racehorses and doesn't have time to come out for one horse just to give shots :-() Turnsout that the vet they had come out works for my friend. So he checked her over and gave her 4 shots....not sure which as I wasn't there *sigh* silly hubby said I couldn't go since I would insist on holding her while she got the shots and after a therapy horse almost ran me over on monday he is being all over protective about me getting hurt. Come on it was just a halflinger, sure she weighed more then my horse but it was get rammed into and jumped on or let her take off bucking across the arena with a 7 year old special needs boy on her back who can barely sit straight without help...So he gave her the shots, checked her teeth to guess her age and said the wear on them shows she could easily be 27, then checked to see how bad her teeth where 
otherwise since when we got her the blacksmith said it was probably over 2 years since her feet had been done and she had a bagged up udder which we are guessing means she had foaled recently we figured her teeth would be in dire straights. He said they where amazing and wouldn't need to be touched. He was in shock that they could be so good after 
how starved and neglected she was when we got her. We went to the 
charity ride and people who had been training horses their whole lives thought she was a youngster. Her mane was cut and braided and she was so excited she had her tail flagging behind her and was showing off big time and actually trying to spray pee at one of the geldings who was following her. We had to have him pass us because she was starting to try and trot away from him to play tag. Noone would believe at first that she was 27. It was a ride to raise money for a therapy riding school and they are considering having her as a reserve/ in-case-of-emergency horse since she lives 5 minutes down the road and is the perfect size and temperment for the program. I'm hoping to get some pictures of her being ridden on the ride and her showing off in the outdoor areana when we lunged her before the ride.


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## HGEsquire (Feb 21, 2010)

Soooo have we ever really determined *WHO* this mare is??? Please please please consider taking a photo of her neck where the freeze brand is. This will *eliminate* *ALL* guess work out of who she is, how old she is, registered babies, show records if any, and so much more...

If there is anyone here that knows the OP personally, please have her come back to read my post. I am anxous to find out a definate *WHO IS SHE* 

Denise Gainey


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