# Should i refuse to pay her purchase price?



## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Okay so, as most of you know I purchased Duchess. Well technically I only purchased half of her. She was $1k and paid $500 upfront. They agreed to allow me to wait until the end of Oct to pay off the rest.

Here is the issue. In her add she was stated to be 10 years old, bombproof and deadbroke to the point little children could ride her.

Her registration papers they gave me state shes actually 13. 

The only thing she HASN'T spooked at is a tractor. She spooks at wash mits, sponges, rags, flashes of light (such as a camera flash or lightening), sudden movement, sudden noises, she even spooked at the cow mooing today and shes a COW HORSE!

Deadbroke my @$$. I had to spend the first 3 weeks fighting with her to just walk in a straight line without throwing a fit. Shes finally gotten to where she will lower her head and relax at the walk. At the trot shes a spazz. She strikes out with her front feet and has started rearing on me. Her canter is completely off balance and all over the place.
She needs A LOT of simple, basic training she should already know.

Although she seems more comfortable when riding with another horse, shes aggressive towards other horses in the saddle. Not on the ground, only in the saddle. She pins her ears and if you ask her to trot she immediately turns and tries to run the other horse down.

She has, in the past, been a roping/cutting horse. We're finding that hard to believe now. Today the cow moo'ed across the street and she spooked. :evil: seriously?

She has been in the field for 3 months but she was advertised as a deadbroke horse. I'm a beginner rider and I told them that, they assured me that a child could ride her. 

My instructor doesn't think I should pay another penny for her. We're going to ahve to get a full vet check up on her and I'm 99% sure she will need to have her teeth done even though they told me they wouldn't need to be.

What do you think? What would you do?

I'm worried that if I refuse to pay it, they will take her away. I really like her but shes not what they advertised her as. Jan says she can have a lawyer write up a refusal or something to make it offical if they give any issues.

On the ground she is the best horse anyone could ever dream about. Shes ultra affectionate, very gentle and respectful. Shes my dream horse in that aspect!


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

i would talk to the people about this, explain everything that was supposed to be true that is actually false, and have the previous owners you bought from watch you handle the horse, or tell them to try themselves and see if their advertisment was correct. i would try hard to not pay any more money for that horse


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

I'm scared to let her past owner ride her again. I think he would do more harm then good. Hes VERY rough and runs her into the ground, which is why she has such issues with keeping a steady gait and why her head is always jacked up into my lap. The guy rides her like hes running for his life. Shes finally gotten to where she will relax at the walk and i dont want to ruin even that little step.

I've talked to her owner and hes completely apologetic. We took a video of her acting up and rearing at the trot and we're going to send it to him and to our vet (once its loaded up)


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

I'm worried that if I refuse to pay it, they will take her away. I really like her but shes not what they advertised her as. Jan says she can have a lawyer write up a refusal or something to make it offical if they give any issues.

I would listen to Jan she has the exsperience and she undertands what it is like down there and knows more about the law than most of us do. If that is a cowhorse I am the King of France, it could be worse you could have bought her for a cowhorse.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

If you refuse to pay, you will be breaking the purchase contract and that will put you in murky waters. Yes, she would appear to have misrepresented the horse, but you also failed to properly investigate her "claims" prior to agreeing to purchase the horse (ie review the papers and acertain her age before buying, doing a more thorough trial on the spooking issues, etc). You both bear some responsibility for the situation but you are not really in a good legal standing to refuse payment at this point as the solution would likely be to force the return of the horse and refund of the money you DID pay rather than being allowed to keep the horse at half price.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Darn you for making a good point. >.< I realize it was my duty to ensure everything stated was true but I agreed to purchase a 10yr deadbroke bombproof horse. Not a 13yr spazz case. =/

Perhaps asking the price be lowered due to the upcoming issues. Maybe only $700 as the purchase price instead of $1k?


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Lucara said:


> Darn you for making a good point. >.< I realize it was my duty to ensure everything stated was true but I agreed to purchase a 10yr deadbroke bombproof horse. Not a 13yr spazz case. =/
> 
> Perhaps asking the price be lowered due to the upcoming issues. Maybe only $700 as the purchase price instead of $1k?


Themacpack is quite right. You should have taken your coach or some experienced person with you. This is the very reason many people that come to this forum as beginners stating they are buying a horse WE KNOW is in appropiate get jumped on....we know stuff like your situation happens and far more often that many realize.

Just what sort of contract did you sign............or DID you even sign a contract. Without something in writing it is their word against yours. If there is a contract what is in it about payment of the balance?

If you have no contract I would suggest you will have to make the best of it and do what you can. Yes you can sue but that would be expensive. Certainly try to get a lowered price but don't count on it.

Giving the horse back...I am sure they will take it back and charge you a $500.00 leasng price.


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

good luck with whatever you end up doing! hopefully it works out


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

you can refuse to pay, you will be breaking the contract, and they can snatch her up that day. try to negotiate for less if you can. if i was the seller I would take the horse back, it was your duty to make sure she was worth 1k before you purchased her. Since you breached they might keep the money, but it all depends on how nice these people are.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

sillybunny11486 said:


> you can refuse to pay, you will be breaking the contract, and they can snatch her up that day. try to negotiate for less if you can. if i was the seller I would take the horse back, it was your duty to make sure she was worth 1k before you purchased her. Since you breached they might keep the money, but it all depends on how nice these people are.


They broke the contract first by not accuratly advertising her. If you are selling something it is on you to make sure that what you are advertising is what you are selling.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I would have a chat with them but I wouldn't not pay for her without talking to them. Let them know she isn't why they had advertised.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

unless her discription was stated directly in the contract or disclaimed it somewere, they didnt do anything. deadbroke is just an opinion, her age was wrong but as it was pretty close to he actual age it could just be a mistake on their part. this could either be fraud, or unilateral mistake. they could have just thought they were acuratly describing her, in which case their is no breach. if the other party should have known of the mistake the contract it is not voidable. in this case she should have known of the mistake, ie should have gotten a professional to evaluate her, or ride the horse herself. unilateral mistakes are not a defense for breach.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Its the sellers duty to provide correct information although most never do. 

Yes I have a "contract" I'd have to pull it back out to read exactly what it says but neither contract says the exact same thing word for word. She just wrote it down on a piece of paper.

I'm not going to call up the people demanding they sell her for $500. I've talked to the owner before about her issues and I'm providing a video as proof of what shes doing. Its not like I'm just popping it up on them now and blabbing about something that's not true. 

We'll see how it turns out. This horse was also suggested by a member of this forum and she seemed perfect. I'm a beginner rider, shes a bombproof & deadbroke horse. She should have been a perfect match.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

sillybunny11486 said:


> unless her discription was stated directly in the contract or disclaimed it somewere, they didnt do anything. deadbroke is just an opinion, her age was wrong but as it was pretty close to he actual age it could just be a mistake on their part. this could either be fraud, or unilateral mistake. they could have just thought they were acuratly describing her, in which case their is no breach. if the other party should have known of the mistake the contract it is not voidable. in this case she should have known of the mistake, ie should have gotten a professional to evaluate her, or ride the horse herself. unilateral mistakes are not a defense for breach.


I did ride the horse myself and she had none of these issues. The worst thing was I had to push her a bit more to get her to trot but she was not rearing on me. I never would have gotten a horse I didn't feel comfortable on.

It was also posted on her add that she was bombproof and dead broke. That a child could ride her.


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

What does your bill of sale say? If it says you bought a 10 year old mare when she is 13 They broke contract already. When I write a bill of sale I put the age, registration, color,gender and everything else and I sign it. Hopefully you had them do that!


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Actually, the bill of sale doesn't list what I bought at all. =/ The exact words on the paper..

I Roxanne Shupe recieved $500.00 on Sept 9, 2009 down and to be payed off by Sept 26,09 if you cann't called me!

-Signatures-

Same spelling and words.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

haha. i love contract where they cant spell. some horses act differently in different situation, that could have been part of the cause. she could have been druged. my vet makes it a point to ask that at every prepurchase exam. if we find the seller lied about that, there is no doubt it was fraud. my first mare was perfect for a few weeks, then after a month she just started to act very green. no idea why, but drugs dont last that long. situations like that really do suck. if this seller is a dealer they are held to a higher standard. 

Like you said, just try and negotiate, its the best thing you can do in the situation. with the economy not doing well you might be able to make a deal. Maybe getting a statement from your trainer will help you negotiate.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Lucara said:


> Actually, the bill of sale doesn't list what I bought at all. =/ The exact words on the paper..
> 
> I Roxanne Shupe recieved $500.00 on Sept 9, 2009 down and to be payed off by Sept 26,09 if you cann't called me!
> 
> ...


Actually that is not a contract at all. You could have bought a desk for all that matter with what was written.

It in fact does not even prove you bough this horse at all. It also doesn't prove anything else has to be paid. There is nothing there to say the full price is $1,000.00 and they could easily come to court stating the full price is $2,000 or $700.00.

A contract must fullfill that something of value was exchanged for something of value and that all parties of legal age agreed to it. That piece of paper comes nowhere near that.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

in this case you dont need a piece of paper, an oral contral will due just fine, althought its harder to enforce.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Well, if nothing else I'll ask Jan's lawyer friend to draw up a legal bill of sale. That way nothing can be screwed around with once things are final.


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## APHA MOMMA (Jul 10, 2009)

You said at the time when you test rode the horse that she was in fact harder to get in to a trot, did she seemed doped up at all? Like more droopier or lazier?


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Not really. I mean the guy rode her pretty roughly. I got a video of it. She didn't seemed out of it or droopy especially with the way he rode her. She had no issues with her trot minus just needing to be pushed more to get into it. The past week and half shes just been down right horrible about it. We also got a video of her now but my instructor has failed to load it up tonight like I asked >.<.






The guy whose riding her is what has cause all these issues. He rides like hes riding for his life. Shes always got her head jacked up into my lap. Shes gotten good with the walk like I said. Shes started to really relax for me there but the trot is just a mess and canter isn't any better.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

I sold a nice horse once. I fully explained what he was like, he never once bucked or anything like that, ect ect ect. Months later the buyer emailed me yelling at me that the horse is rearing ect with their trainer, that I lied, blah blah. I did NOT. I am NOT responsible for what happens in his life/training after he leaves. I have no idea what the "trainer" did to cause the bucking issues, but in the 7 years I owned him (since a yearling), never once did he do that. I was 100% honest with the buyer, but she did not believe me.

Horses are living, breathing beings, with a will of their own. Often times the DO change. Maybe the seller lied, maybe not. You agreed to pay $1000, you checked out the horse, IMO you DO need to pay the rest, UNLESS the seller is super nice and agrees to take less. I wouldn't if I were them. I MIGHT offer your $500 back and take the horse back. MAYBE. Not if I was honest about the horse's training ect and now the horse is bad, I'd wonder what you did to cause that (I am NOT saying this is the case or that you did anything, it's just what I would think if I were in the seller's shoes). I would offer to take back the horse with no refund.

Bill of sales are very important, clearly stating everything. They're important for both the buyer and the seller. Even when I BUY a horse, I bring one in case the seller doesn't have one. Two copies, one for me, one for them.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Thats the whole thing though, we havn't done ANYTHING that would cause any horse to misbehave. The first few weeks were basic walking and bending for suppleing and then we moved to trot and had this issue.
Shes supposed to be a deadbroke horse. I'm supposed to be able to make a few minor mistakes (such as I don't post well yet, or my position isn't right on the dot) and not have a completely screwed up horse because of it. It was the whole purpose for getting a dead broke horse was so that I could learn on her and they knew that.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Honestly, at this point, your only hope of resolution that does not involve paying the remaining balance is to return the horse and attempt to collect the $500 you have already paid. Which, since she is NOT the horse you need/wanted, is probably the best bet.


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

I do want her. My instructor thinks that with a few months of consistent work, we can fix her issues. I'm just upset that things weren't as they said. I was under the impression I could I hop up walk, trot and canter without very many issues.

I'm going to ask if they would take less for her due to the amount of training and the fact that shes not what they said she was.

The whole..her being a cow horse even seems hard to believe. She spooked at a cow mooing across the road yesterday and I have 3 other people who witnessed it. What cow horse spooks at a moo?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I think you are in a pickle.

I am 100% by Spyder, she is absolutely correct and I think this is not only a learning lesson for you, but for others out there who are reading this thread.

ALWAYS get a written contract stating the price of the horse, and always ensure that the sellers write what has been paid.

You made the agreement at the start. You said yes to their asking price and they trusted you to keep your word and allowed you to bring the horse home with you.

If it were I selling the horse, I would not of allowed the horse to leave my property until fully paid, so you were lucky on that end. 

I think your best bet right now, is to take the contract and the video's to a civil law lawyer and see what can be done.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Lucara said:


> Not really. I mean the guy rode her pretty roughly. I got a video of it. She didn't seemed out of it or droopy especially with the way he rode her. She had no issues with her trot minus just needing to be pushed more to get into it. The past week and half shes just been down right horrible about it. We also got a video of her now but my instructor has failed to load it up tonight like I asked >.<.
> 
> YouTube - Duchess 0001
> 
> The guy whose riding her is what has cause all these issues. He rides like hes riding for his life. Shes always got her head jacked up into my lap. Shes gotten good with the walk like I said. Shes started to really relax for me there but the trot is just a mess and canter isn't any better.


See this is why you should bring an experienced person with you when you look at horses.

If I were there I would never have recommended this horse. In spite of the rider she is NOT DEAD BROKE AT ALL !!!

The handler is first clueless about safety. Having the horse half saddled without being secured (tied) is positively an accident waiting to happen. what if the horse spooked before the saddle was fully secured.

The ridden part clearly shows the rider can't ride (stay on yes but not much more) and that he had no idea what to do with gaites that were not under control. The standing on the horse shows me he is a jacka$$ as it is only idiots do that to show off.

The bit clearly is uncomfortable for the horse and is the only thing stopping her from taking off.

I see all this and you should have or had someone with you that should have.

Personally at the time of the video with the market as it is ....and if you trully wanted this horse $500.00 is the maximum you should have paid.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

All that being said, the way I see it is that you have several choices.

The first is that you pay the difference.

The second is that you return the horse and loose all (or part) of your money and chalk it up to experience.

Next is that you sell the horse yourself and get the one you expected to have with this one - prices are even lower now that winter is coming

Lastly, talk to the seller. The problem with that is, judging from your video, he isn't going to do anything for you and will probably blame you for the way the horse is.

There is always the option of keeping and pouring money into him but at 13, and you being a green rider, is the worse option.

Personally I would try to return the horse and collect as much money back as possible. If I got nothing back it would still be cheaper then keeping him. You would be ahead by the $500 you didn't pay him and also the training fees and board. Use the $500 and training fees to find the right horse.

BTW, I agree with Spyder - this was/is the wrong horse for you.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

_This is the time of year that people try and get rid of horses, so you aren't gonna get much out of horse like that. I would keep the horse and pay what you owe or give him back and ask for a refund. If you do give him back, you can probably find a good horse at a very reasonable price._


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## xLaurenOscarx (Aug 11, 2009)

I Know Absoultly Nothing About Western Riding But That Bit Is Digusting! Your Man Is Sawing Her In The Mouth The 1st Time He Asked Her 2 Back Up!

No Wonder The Poor Horse Rears And Doesnt Accpet The Bit!
Maye if you Get Her A Nice Snaffle With Copper On It Or Something Like That!( I Dunno If You Use Them In Western?)

Woah Huuge Difference Whenever You Got On Her! 

Id Say Shes Acting Up Because Of All The Pulling In The mouth She Got From The Old Owner!
She Doesnt Seem At All Happy In Her Mouth.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Spyder said:


> See this is why you should bring an experienced person with you when you look at horses.
> 
> If I were there I would never have recommended this horse. In spite of the rider she is NOT DEAD BROKE AT ALL !!!
> 
> ...


Couldn't agree more.
I was shocked right from the get-go. Saddling a horse without some kind of rope is downright stupid. Denny ground-ties, but I sure as heck have a rope on him so I don't have to go flying towards his face if he decides to step forwards, see how that mare is starting to get a bit of a wild eye the more he snatches at her halter to get her to stand still?
This guy is an idiot. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER (!!!!!!!!!!!!) do your breastcollar up before your cinch! EVER! Can I stress that one more time? If that mare had stepped forwards or shook or done anything but be a saint and stand still, the saddle would have only been attached around her neck (!!!!!!) by a breastcollar!! 
Personally, I would have walked away right there. 
"She's parked out, she won't move till I tell her" - obviously that wasn't true as she moved when he went to mount up. I didn't see any cue from him. Beyond that, she "parked out" when he reefed on her cinch, that is not something he taught her, that is something she did out of reflex for her balance, and he made an excuse for it. 
This is NOT a dead broke horse, this is NOT a bombproof horse, and you can tell that within the first few seconds of him stepping up on her. First off, he says "usually I lunge her" -- red flag. A deadbroke horse should NOT need to be lunged. Secondly, as soon as he steps on, she fights, she is skittish, she is scared, and he quickly diffuses the situation by putting her in "neutral" and talks his way out of it. 
Then she trots off. 
No, a deadbroke (or even well-broke.. or even... hell I expect my green broke horses to step out into a walk, not a trot) horse should walk off. 

I didn't watch any more of the video because it was hurting my head.

Like MIE said, you're in a pickle. The guy lied to you. The guy now has half your money, and technically since you agreed to take the horse, I think you might be SOL. 
Try talking to the previous owner, but if he is as special as he sounds, he's likely to say "give me the rest of my money, and send her to the meatworks." You heard him in the video, a horse is just a horse to him, he couldn't care less.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Amba1027 said:


> They broke the contract first by not accuratly advertising her. If you are selling something it is on you to make sure that what you are advertising is what you are selling.


Well - that is a murky point also.

I would assume the buyer tried the horse and then agreed to buy it . . .


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

mls said:


> Well - that is a murky point also.
> 
> I would assume the buyer tried the horse and then agreed to buy it . . .


Exactly. Except in cases where it is stipulated in the contract that the horse is sold with a trial period, or is represented in a certain fashion, the OP is SOL. 
It is so hard to say what was accurately represented as well. Not to go against the OP, but we are only hearing one side of the story. It is obvious to a well-trained eye that this horse was not bombproof or a horse for a beginner of novice. For all we know, the OP fell head over heels for her, and was blinded by that judgement.
For instance, I once sold a horse on behalf of a dude ranch. This horse was honest-to-God the nearest to Kidproof I've seen in a long while. The kid and the horse seemed to be a match made in Heaven. A month later the mother called me demanding a refund. The horse had started bucking, and acting up. I told her to bring the horse by and we'd see what we could do. The horse was malnourished, had whip marks all over him, needle tracks, rope burns, and was all kinds of lame. I took him back out of pity, but needless to say they did something to him and he wasn't the same horse. 
Personally, I don't see the seller wanting any part in this horse anymore other than for the rest of his money.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

I agree with Spyder and JDI ... after watching that video there is NO WAY that horse is broke, let alone for a beginner. My 6 yr old ottb and 7 yr old qh who aren't finished are WAY better then that horse and i am still training them.

Why didn't you have your trainer come see the horse with you? Did you show your trainer that video? If so i would be concerned about the trainers knowledge because like stated, that is not a beginner horse.

Talk to the owner and see if you can get money knocked off but if that is how the horse behaved with you there watching and you were ok with it, then you kind of sealed your own fate 

I wish you the best luck and i hope that you can get your girl chilled out and working for you


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## Lucara (Apr 5, 2008)

Since I mentioned that I had a video as proof of what she is doing I might as well link the other thread here.

This is the link to her recent riding videos.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/duchess-rear-acting-up-video-38563/


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Lucara said:


> Since I mentioned that I had a video as proof of what she is doing I might as well link the other thread here.
> 
> This is the link to her recent riding videos.
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/duchess-rear-acting-up-video-38563/


The problem is that many of us can see the beginnings of that in the video you posted on this thread. I'm really sorry, but you were duped into thinking this was the perfect horse for you.
The guy in the video is an idiot, but he's also quick on his feet. "She's acting up because I didn't lunge her first" is a red flag. "She parks out like that and stands for hours" is a red flag, and as we found out, is not true. "First thing I do when I get on her is flex her head like this" is a red flag in this instance, because he's not just flexing her head, he's got her disengaging because he can feel her start to act up. He doesn't correct her when she moves out into a trot instead of a walk - probably because she'd've gotten sour and acted out even more.
We all make mistakes in the horse world, we all buy horses that aren't 100% right for us. Learn from this mistake - now you know to ask more questions, not take things for what they seem, and take someone along who is much more experienced who can see these red flags and warn you. It's sad that there are people out there who are so focused on money they won't say "no, this horse is a bad match."

That you have this misbehavior on video before you bought her would just tell someone "you saw what she's like, she is misbehaving, and you decided to take a chance on her anyways."
Though this isn't the whole truth, it's what the video would tell me if I was an impartial person on a "jury."


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

Im gonna have to agree wiht JDI and Spyder. Unfortunatly i think you got ripped off. I would just pay the rest of the money and hopefully like your trainer said, maybe you can fix her problems.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

in the video she isn't rearing .. she is throwing a fit ... but again she isn't a beginner horse by any means! 

do you have the means to send her off to a trainer to get a good foundation on her so that you can build a good relationship and learn more with her once she is responsive?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Spyder said:


> See this is why you should bring an experienced person with you when you look at horses.
> 
> If I were there I would never have recommended this horse. In spite of the rider she is NOT DEAD BROKE AT ALL !!!
> 
> ...


 

Exactly. You have learned an expensive lesson. Most of us have learned that same lesson a very similar way. If you are buying a car or a horse or a house make sure you have a contract and have the item inspected by an expert. Welcome to the real world. Take your lumps and pay the price you agreed to. The problem with the videos is that it shows how she acted yet you still bought her I don't think they would be much help in court.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Exactly. You have learned an expensive lesson. Most of us have learned that same lesson a very similar way. If you are buying a car or a horse or a house make sure you have a contract and have the item inspected by an expert. Welcome to the real world. Take your lumps and pay the price you agreed to. *The problem with the videos is that it shows how she acted yet you still bought her *I don't think they would be much help in court.


In total agreement with that.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Where was your trainer in all this hot mess? If you didn't take him/her with you when you went to look at and ride this mare, then yes, you've learned a very expensive lesson.

I have a spazztastic horse. The difference is that I've been riding for 30 years, and I knew going in that he had issues. He's a nice little trail gelding now, but will NEVER be for a beginner rider. He's just too hot, and has too big of a spook.

You owe the man the rest of the money. Either give back the horse and get a refund, or pay up and hope this mare will make a decent riding horse with further instruction.

I'm also wondering why, if you've had this horse any length of time, your instructor hasn't been able to train her better. Maybe it's time for a new trainer.

I watched all the videos. The mare isn't hideous, just green. With _proper_ training, I'm sure she'd come around nicely.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

I just watched the video of the guy (and then you?) riding her. I agree, that is in no way shape or form a horse for a beginner rider. I'm selling my Arab, and I have in his ad that he needs an experienced, confident rider, yet he would be more suitable for a beginner (minus when he's being super spooky) than this horse! I agree, where was your trainer in this decision? It's very important for someone who isn't real good at looking for the right horse to get an expert opinion. 

Sorry you're in this situation, but, it is what it is. Have you talked to the seller? Really, until you do and ask for the total price to be lowered, there's nothing else at this point to do. Be nice, and explain the situation and your concerns. Maybe you'll luck out... doubtful in my mind, but very possible, and for your sake, I hope you do!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Lucara said:


> Thats the whole thing though, we havn't done ANYTHING that would cause any horse to misbehave. The first few weeks were basic walking and bending for suppleing and then we moved to trot and had this issue.
> Shes supposed to be a deadbroke horse. I'm supposed to be able to make a few minor mistakes (such as I don't post well yet, or my position isn't right on the dot) and not have a completely screwed up horse because of it. It was the whole purpose for getting a dead broke horse was so that I could learn on her and they knew that.


ANYTHING?

Is the horse getting the exact same food (brand and amount) as it did before? Is the horse wearing the exact same tack it did before? Is the horse living in the exact same turn out situation as it had before?

Little things can change a lot. 


I am sorry to say but dead broke means different things to different people. If you post a question on any horse BB asking what they consider dead broke you will get a vast and varying list of opinions. None are really wrong, just different.




> I'm also wondering why, if you've had this horse any length of time, your instructor hasn't been able to train her better. Maybe it's time for a new trainer.
> 
> I watched all the videos. The mare isn't hideous, just green. With _proper_ training, I'm sure she'd come around nicely.


I agree with Speed on this one. It might be time for a new trainer. 

Has the mare had a full lameness exam? Could her issues be pain? Does your saddle fit right? Have her teeth been done?

So many variables here.


If you want to keep the mare then pay for her. It is pretty much that simple.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Alwaysbehind brings up some good points.

Have you had her checked out physically? She may be in pain somewhere.

Does your tack fit her properly? If not, that could also cause some of the issues we're seeing.

Plus, and this is important, _you_ could be one of her issues. By your own admission, you're a noob to riding. Which means you could be doing things to aggravate the mare without knowing it.

Green on green usually equals black and blue, but you _can_ overcome that if you're patient and willing to work with the horse you have, not the horse you _think _you should have.

No horse is going to be perfect all the time. Even a grand old schoolmaster can get a wild hair. 

Horses are flight animals by nature, because they're pretty low on the big predator food chain. Just because we've taught them to accept humans on their backs, doesn't mean we can compete with millenia of instinct. We can minimize that instinctual response, but never fully get rid of it.

The only _truly_ safe horse is a dead one. If you can come to terms with that, then you're well on your way to becoming a good horsewoman.


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