# Coming back into work



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Hi,

I want to know what you think. He's coming back into work after a few bumps along the way, so we're basically starting over rebuilding muscle an fitness.







I've ridden him a total of 10 times since getting a new saddle (and since basically a year) but I have been lunging him and working in hand except when I was sick and during winter break (I was out of country).

The only thing I can offer as fact is my stirrups are 61" long, I had to buy some just to try out my saddle before buying it and they were the only used ones I could find. Therefore they're wrapped once and therefore a half inch too short, at least. Yesterday I figured out I can still wrap them but put them down a hole and they're about the perfect length for me (took me awhile to figure that one out, haha!)

Before wrapping: He doesn't have the muscle for it and I was jamming my legs down (see the pommel hitting the crotch area?)










Go for it! We're focused on dressage (hence the arena and tack!)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

what do you mean by "wrapping"?

you look fine, riding well, especially considering your long illness.


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## SaraM (Feb 14, 2014)

I'll post more later, because I'm on my phone. The biggest thing I see, is that he moves pretty nice, but you're not containing the forward energy at all. He's moving forward freely and I'd like to see you pick up your reins and drive him more into the bridle with that energy. His trot looks best IMO when his legs are snapping forward a little bit, I'm sure you can feel when he gets a little floaty. That's the trot I'd aim for maintaining all the time, otherwise he's sort of just plodding along. I know he's coming back from a break, but you could ask more of him that just trotting around laps. Throw in more transitions, some lateral work, more circles, spirals, and I bet he would come together better. You're trying to build, so you need to challenge him with a little more lateral work (like someone trying to run a marathon, you wouldn't just jog for 10mins a day and expect to get muscles); he looks calm and ready to do more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks SaraM! I'm so glad you critiqued, because I agree about the plodding. On the diagonals, I add more leg and click and I'd love for him to be like that always but he's so lazy since coming back into work. I am definitely working on it though! It'd be easier if I had a dressage whip still, but I know I can work without it.

Do you feel if we keep this up, we'd be ok to canter by the end of the month? I just want to make sure he has enough muscle/balance. 



tinyliny said:


> what do you mean by "wrapping"?
> 
> you look fine, riding well, especially considering your long illness.


Like you would for a child on regular stirrups... I can't find a picture but try and imagine when you go to shorten stirrups normally, you unbuckle them and then slide the buckle up to a different hole.

These stirrup leathers are really long so I have to take the excess leather (before buckling it) and wrap it through the iron once and then buckle it. It shortens the leather around 2 inches. 

I would punch another hole but they are nylon lined :/ I've heard horror stories about losing their integrity if I punch holes (plus how would I... it seems like it'd be really hard)


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Bump,

So far I have ask for more forward, drive into the bridle as opposed to having a longer rein, to connect him

What else, is my posting ok or exaggerated? It's hard for me to tell when I ride him because it's been awhile and I don't have body awareness like I used to.

Does the saddle look ok on him?

Just any comment or constructive criticism you can offer is appreciated.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

I’m a pretty busy person without a lot of time to do this and I apologize it got longer than I anticipated, I just like to explain why I'm suggesting what I am. I’d say for the most part you are doing a solid job of bringing him back into work, it takes time to develop the musculature but I find once the coordination is there it comes back pretty quickly. You’re doing a good job.

I agree with SaraM on a lot of it. He could be more forward, he needs to articulate his hind legs more and bring them underneath his body. Even in these early stages of conditioning it is better to ask for better quality work than quantity of work. I also would not forget the importance of riding the walk well. A lot of riders over look the walk, which I think is strange because the walk is IMO one of the most important gaits as it is easier to correct and pick up on various things happening than at the trot and canter, as it is a 4 beat gait you distinctly feel every leg in action and can correct it. A lot of riders lose the energy in the walk and quit riding but keep riding the walk (don't take a break because you are walking) and see how much it improves your trot and canter. It is also a great gait to test yourself and play with shoulder control, control of the haunches, how much bend you can get in a leg yield? how little can you do to get him to lengthen his stride? how little to shorten his stride? How little can I change my position to influence his balance yet how much to be effective? Those are a sample of the kinds of questions to ask yourself every ride and in every gait. 

He appears stiffer traveling right and more supple traveling left but he has a tendency to go out through his right shoulder. This is a pretty normal crookedness, he just need to emphasize more bend through the rib cage and shoulders going right and traveling left you need to focus more on keeping that right or outside shoulder in line with the rest of his body (maybe add some shoulder fore this direction). Both directions I would like to see more bend through the rib cage to improve his balance, suppleness and straightness. I would definitely incorporate some leg yielding into your circles and while preparing your changes of direction to help with the bend to help him maintain his balance. Really pay attention to moving his shoulders through the changes of direction and to control his bend in the circles. Something I do with horses who struggle or don’t know how to move their shoulders is roll backs (this also loosens their shoulders and makes them more supple, plus more reactive to your thigh, knee and outside rein). 

When traveling left especially because he likes to go out through his outside shoulder I would look over your outside shoulder (not your inside) which you have a tendency to do and this makes you crooked. Look over your outside shoulder to correct your position and help you ride a more accurate circle or figure (this also helps in leg yields). This may seem like a silly trick but it will help you align your shoulders and hips. I’d also play with how much you can influence his balance and move him based on how much weight you put into your inside or outside stirrup, see how much you can steer him just using your position and the weight in your seat bones. This doesn’t have to be perfect, just something to think about.

I agree with SaraM on adding more complicated figures. Challenge both of you, it is not too much to ask for some lateral work or to stay committed to your figures. Really pay attention to your circles and changes of direction to direct his balance. Leg yield a few steps out while on the circle and imagine his inside hind leg jumping into your outside rein as you capture it with your outside rein. If he falls through the outside shoulder use your knee and outside rein to direct his shoulder back in line. 

The other thing is stay committed to your figures, if you’re going to do a circle, do a circle so you can get the most from the exercise and don’t care if it is going exactly as you want it to or not, ride the circle. I’m big about preparing for figures and paying attention to the shape, size and quality of your circles, that means leg yielding a few steps to maintain bend through the circle, paying attention to the position of the shoulders, maybe ride some shoulder fore and in to get the bend or exaggerate the bend a few strides. 

Overall I have a nice impression and like what I see. You’re a pretty rider, I can tell you are still getting back into it but you’re on the right path you should be pleased with you both. He’s a cute horse and you seem to suit each other well.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

great post!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Thank you so much!!! That's exactly what I was looking for, I know we've got our work cut out for us but for me, it's hard to tell what exactly I need to work on since we both have our flaws!

You are completely spot on about the issues going right (he likes to counter bend and even if warm up I'll flex him to the inside and do one step of correct leg yielding. He gets frustrated with more than that, because it's hard for me to communicate it properly plus it's hard for him (he's lazy!) But we will continue to work on that!

And yes, I have my crooked moments and I feel them but I can't figure out how to fix them if that makes sense, so your comment is going to help me visualize a solution and feel the difference between how I was VS how I should be. 

I think this length of stirrup suits both of us right now, since I don't have the riding muscles I need to have a longer stretchier one, but you're right about asking for correct work from him versus lots of work.

We haven't cantered yet, because he doesn't have the muscle for it and I rather get our walk and trot pretty forward and fluid because I throw that in there, does that seem fair?

Ah yes, my figures! I was so focused on keeping the circle a circle that I forgot to actually ride the circle correctly! Thank you! I will definitely work on that too!

It tickles me fuzzy to hear from another rider that my horse and I are a good match  I think so too, we challenge each other and I adore riding him.

I'm thrilled to share our progress with you and SaraM!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

*****UPDATED VIDEO*****

I know we still aren't there, but I'm taking this as a good stepping stone to how we were. I also found some other leathers. They are like 2 holes short but they felt better to ride in. I'm going to sell the extra long ones and use that money to buy actual length stirrups, then eventually sell these on too.

But let me know what you think! I bought a dressage whip today


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Coming from me, so take this with a grain of salt:

But it looks like you are posting so _hard_! It looks tiring to me, and very forceful, almost too bouncy for the movement he's giving you. You could probably turn it down a notch or two and think about being softer with your tush.

But what do I know? LOL


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think the new stirrup length is too short by one hole. when you sit, the angle behind your knee is too tight.

just thought I'd add, since you are getting all this criticism, that I've seen your riding videos over the years, and you've improved so very much. the time you did in NZ really made a huge improvement. If I had a horse, you could ride him any day of the week!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Yes QHRider, they're too short haha! So I'm basically being sprung up due to not only his impulsion but the spring of my knee/thigh angle, lol! 

Aww thanks tinyliny!!! My trainer in NZ made me the rider I am today, and I know I still have a long way to go (both Sky and I) but truly I have so much more confidence even


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

How does Sky look? I think he looks better but still not round and through.. we had a lot of contact though as he doesn't have as much muscle to keep round by himself so I'm hoping with more fitness and transitions (his walk to trot transitions are great! Trot to walk take 5 minutes because I'm trying to ride him down into it instead of jerk him off balance... any tips there?)


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Bump? :/ Should I just continue to add leg and half halt to rebalance, work on transitions and do figures?

He's still not round, and he probably doesn't have the strength to be round... but I'm not sure what I can do make this less frustrating for him. 

I do need to get proper stirrups though..


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Update on the trot, it's a short video and happens after we do a little cantering (to make him happy) 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdPxPAtDp8Q


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

I’ve been watching you for a little while but unfortunately have had a lot on my plate and no time to write anything. I watched your latest video to give you the fairest assessment I can.

One of the first things I noticed in most of your videos is you’re tight in your hips and thighs, your hips are contracted to suck your femur and knees to the saddle (this I think is why your leg was swinging so much), not that it was bad but it can be quieter by you allowing yourself to relax into your seat and move with the horse. Don’t force your seat to move, just follow. You shove a little in the walk and I think it is because he is not forward enough in his walk and so you compensate with your seat to try to get him to step up but he’s not responding. I would ask for a bigger walk with your leg and reinforce with your whip if he doesn’t respond to a bigger aid (minimal use of whip, whip is just reinforcement to help the horse understand what is expected). Or you can alternate the use of each leg with the swing of his barrel left leg, right leg with the swing to accentuate his walk and insist he take a bigger step and listen. At this point communicate with leg first and let your hips follow. This will be more productive. Anytime you apply an aid, expect a reaction. If he doesn’t react, reinforce your expected reaction but be fair. If he isn’t getting something take a step back go back to walk and see where the miscommunication began.

I think some basic work in turns on the forehand and leg yielding will help you get the connection of his inside hind leg into your outside rein and get him to really round around your inside leg. You may have to accentuate a bit to get him to mold around your leg and step under with his inside hind leg and allow himself to be in the outside rein. It will really help you to keep your elbows at your side with your shoulders down and back, when you put your elbows so far in front of you it’s hard to keep your position and stay connected through your whole body (you should feel the connection in your whole arms and into your shoulders and back). I’d also keep your outside hand lower than your inside one for a little bit to help you control the outside shoulder more effectively (really make sure the outside rein is low by his wither in transitions, this will really help you). Having the outside rein lower will help you so he doesn’t fall out through the outside shoulder when you’re asking him to mold around your inside leg and step under with his hind leg, in the sit phase of post or downward phase sitting is when you half halt on the outside rein and keep the connection in it no matter the fuss (occasionally give the inside rein completely to make him seek the outside) and emphasize the bend comes from your inside leg and not your inside hand. Sometimes it helps to think when you want to use your inside reins you use your inside leg. You may also need to help guide his shoulder in with your outside knee, inside shoulder forward or think shoulder fore if his shoulder is going out while you're trying to get him to use his inside hind leg. You may have to exaggerate how much bend you want or sometimes have a little feel of the inside rein (simply lifting the inside rein up or squeezing your fingers and releasing) to remind him to bend his whole body but do not drop the connection of the outside rein and do not lift the outside rein up, keep it at his wither. If he doesn’t understand this at canter, go to trot and if he doesn’t understand it at trot go to walk and accentuate what your inside leg and outside rein mean. To do this you can do turn on forehand squares leg yielding to each corner of the square than accentuate the turn on the forehand and once he gets it let him out. 

In your transitions you really need to keep your connection, think elbows at my sides, shoulder down and back, outside rein low. Leg yield out into the transition hold a second as he starts to transition give both reins and send the horse to the bridle in your downward. A few times you let your reins to long and lost the connection, start long and low with feeling the horse pushing towards your hand but not leaning (add leg if he leans and put the reins forward a second) and say no you have to carry yourself, having a rein that is too long won’t engage his back. You still need a connection in long and low. This is the same for both upward and downward transitions, you should not hold back in a downward transition but sending them into your hand and them listening to your position and body. To transition down I use my back and seat and close my thigh for a moment, hold the connection for a second by closing my fingers, leg yield 1 step and give the reins expecting the horse to reach into the bridle

Be definite in your circle shape and size, make it consistent. Put him on a 20m circle. Sometimes put him on a 10-12m and leg yield out to a 20 and leg yield back in to help you with the bend. Expect him to bend around your inside leg and feel him reach into the outside rein. Ideally you should be able to throw away your inside rein and he'll still be round and balanced. Tips for leg yield, step a little into the stirrup of the direction you are traveling, look to your destination slightly and add leg as you feel his rib cage push into your leg. Add whip if he doesn’t respond to your leg.

I’ll give you a visual. I wish I could put you on my baby horse to demonstrate. If I ask my horse for a leg yield I put him in shoulder fore and accentuate his haunches travel almost more than his front end. In my head if I leg yield from centerline to quarter line his haunches shoulder touch quarter line before his shoulder. My goal in the leg yield is not to get from point to point but that he steps under himself and uses his body correctly. I can feel a big difference in his back and can really feel him stretch into the bridle after a leg yield. I can feel his legs are that much more engaged as he connects his whole body with mine. In shoulder in I can completely throw away my inside rein and he will still be in the connection, still in shoulder in because it is my inside leg that becomes the new inside rein and tells him to round through his rib cage and my outside rein half halt (again just closing my fingers and releasing) catches the outside hind leg and keeps him in balance. He knows the degree of bend from my position and how much outside rein I use. 

I know this was long but I hope some of it made sense, I try to be detailed because I don't know what will make sense or not and I don't know how you think or understand material but I hope this was at least helpful.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I’ve been watching you for a little while but unfortunately have had a lot on my plate and no time to write anything. I watched your latest video to give you the fairest assessment I can.
> 
> One of the first things I noticed in most of your videos is you’re tight in your hips and thighs, your hips are contracted to suck your femur and knees to the saddle (this I think is why your leg was swinging so much), not that it was bad but it can be quieter by you allowing yourself to relax into your seat and move with the horse. Don’t force your seat to move, just follow. You shove a little in the walk and I think it is because he is not forward enough in his walk and so you compensate with your seat to try to get him to step up but he’s not responding. I would ask for a bigger walk with your leg and reinforce with your whip if he doesn’t respond to a bigger aid (minimal use of whip, whip is just reinforcement to help the horse understand what is expected). Or you can alternate the use of each leg with the swing of his barrel left leg, right leg with the swing to accentuate his walk and insist he take a bigger step and listen. At this point communicate with leg first and let your hips follow. This will be more productive. Anytime you apply an aid, expect a reaction. If he doesn’t react, reinforce your expected reaction but be fair. If he isn’t getting something take a step back go back to walk and see where the miscommunication began.
> 
> ...


No all of that was extremely helpful, especially about compensating with my seat. You are spot on and I knew about it in the back of my mind but I was in denial. I have the weakest legs on the planet so riding with a whip definitely is in my future until he learns to listen to my aids.

I love the leg yield tips, I will have to try them! He's notorious for cheating by just shoving his shoulders in one direction. Love the leg yield circle idea, and turns on the forehand to get him using his rear.

I definitely struggle with keeping him connected.. he always reverts to his old way which is responsible for the musculature of his neck: upside down and bulky on the bottom... so my main focus is just to get him to stay soft which sometimes I end up throwing away contact and any chance of staying connected.

I hope to ride him this week and I'll try to video with incorporating some of the tips you provided... by arms never used to be that stretched out but lately I think I have lost the feel of good contact. And I need to figure out my seat issues... 

Again, thank you


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

No problem. I'm glad it was helpful.

The other thing I think helps with keeping the connection is to keep your elbows at your side and remember not to let your rein longer or pull back when he evades, always push him forward into it to make up for the slack in the connection. You can also shorten your reins to get a feel of his mouth but don't brace. Always forward into the connection.

I think of it like breaking down for baby horses, when you're teaching them to steer or move their shoulders. To teach them to turn left I keep my outside rein, step into to my left stirrup and kick with my right leg to teach them to turn left so they learn to move off of my position and balance based on where I place my position. I teach leg yield by building on turns on the forehand first, so they learn their hind end moves (it connects better to improving the leg yield). And for shoulder mobility I actually teach them by spins I step into my the stirrup of whatever direction I am traveling have my whip in my outside hand and lay it on their shoulder whenever I want them to move off of my knee. So they learn both their shoulders and haunches are maneuverable. I also play with their rate and size of stride, so they learn how to be adjustable. 

Also remember a rider cannot out muscle a horse, strength is not going to be how you get your reaction but having an expectation everytime you apply an aid. Sometimes you need to be a little more assertive and get their attention and make them respond, sometimes you have to be strong so you can be light but if you are strong it’s never constant, always aid on and aid off and always trying for the softer aid. As strong as necessary, as light as possible. A lot of dressage is teaching a horse to react.

And all of it just takes time, Rome wasn’t built in a day nor was any dressage horse or rider who ever lived and we’re all on a learning curve and constantly learning better and better ways to do something as we develop throughout our lives. But just thought this may be something to think about too. Again good luck!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

HI Dante,

I have not been able to ride Sky since that video! It's been way too hot, so until I do I won't be able to work on any of your awesome tips on improving our riding

Hopefully soon!


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