# Dun or Grullo



## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

can you get more pics? these aren't very good to go on :/


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

He doesn't seem to have a black base but it's nearly impossible to tell with these pictures. Can you get more?
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## cowgirl4753 (Aug 3, 2012)

I agree with the above post, definitely need different pics. Is there any leg barring or dorsal stripe?
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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I can get more maybe tomorrow the sky is cloudy today so lighting is terrible. Here's a picture of what he looked like at a couple of days old, he is much darker now.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

okay. and it does look like there's some zebra stripes on his inside leg


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Yes he has both striping on one leg and has lines on his colored parts on his back.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'd guess he'd chestnut without any dun factor. It's hard to tell from these pictures and with all the white on his legs, but it's possible he could also be bay. I think the dun markings are just foal camouflage.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Not grullo, Do you know the color of sire and dam? Are either of them Dun?


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hes a Bay Dun.
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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Sire was a black and white Tobiano, Mom is a Grulla Tovero


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

I don't see grulla in mom either, but I think your colt looks to be a bay Dun. If his stripping and dorsal stripe stays.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

This is what the Animal Genetics color calculator gave me as color possibilities,

23.44% - ​ *Black Tovero * 23.44% - ​ *Grullo Tovero * 11.72% - ​ *Black Tobiano * 11.72% - ​ *Grullo Tobiano * 5.86% - ​ *Grullo Sabino * 5.86% - ​ *Black Sabino/Splash * 5.86% - ​ *Grullo Sabino/Splash * 5.86% - ​ *Black Sabino * 1.56% - ​ *Chestnut Tovero * 1.56% - ​ *Red Dun Tovero * 0.78% - ​ *Red Dun Tobiano * 0.78% - ​ *Chestnut Tobiano * 0.39% - ​ *Chestnut Sabino/Splash * 0.39% - ​ *Chestnut Sabino * 0.39% - ​ *Red Dun Sabino * 0.39% - ​ *Red Dun Sabino/Splash *


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Spotted said:


> I don't see grulla in mom either, but I think your colt looks to be a bay Dun. If his stripping and dorsal stripe stays.


What color do you see in the dam?? She is registered as a grulla.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Has mom been DNA'd Is she homozygous for Dun or Black


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

I could be wrong.. I just don't see grullo in the colt and mom looks faded black. I don't see any dorsal , leg bars, ear tip ect. Do you have any other pics??? I see she has lots of white so it makes it hard. But like I said she could be grulla., But I think they can still throw a bay, I will check too 
Now I'm really curious


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Ok here is my calculations, with out knowing DNA. My guess is now Red Dun
46.88% - ​*Grullo *46.88% - ​*Black *3.13% - ​*Red Dun *3.13% - ​*Chestnut *


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Not yet mom is going to get tested for all the coat patterns/colors when she comes home from the trainers later this winter.


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## Horselover3418 (Oct 30, 2012)

He's not going to be Grullo.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Has she had any other foals. That would be cool if she is Homozygous For the Dun factor !! This foal already says yes for the possiblity


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## EthanQ (Sep 5, 2011)

Gorgeous parents! What's the sire's name? I've seen him somewhere before I do believe. And he is still a foal, so he is likely to change.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Mom is at the trainers about 100 miles away so I can't run out and get some her right now, but she has black points on her ears and the dun stripe on her back she is more of a silvery gray mouse color than the colt is more of a brownish tan mouse color. The colt also has black tipped ears, his face is much darker than his body color, he was born more of a straw color dun.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Sire was HRS Midnite Romeo, he passed away on June 29, 2012 of a heart attack or stroke he was playing with the foals and just fell over dead, it was a great loss for me he was a sweet boy and one of the gentlest stallions I ever had the pleasure to own.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Spotted, the dam is exactly what CMarie says she is, shes grulla. Before answered color threads, id do some research. Otherwise all we are doing is confusing people and giving incorrect information.

This foal is a Bay Dun. The color genetic percentages posted do not include Bay Dun for some reason, but its complete impossible for red dun and grulla to show up without bay dun showing up. So i dont know whats up with that?

This foal does not have a "red" enough coat color to be considered chestnut/red dun. He also has a black mane, tail, black tipped ears and muzzle, a VERY prominent dorsal stripe and dark zebra barring on his leg.
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Bay dun is not possible. Both sire and dam are E_ aa. There is NO agouti on either sire or dam, so no agouti on the foal. 

And yes, red dun and grulla/o are entirely possible without having the possibility of bay dun.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Spotted, the dam is exactly what CMarie says she is, shes grulla. Before answered color threads, id do some research. Otherwise all we are doing is confusing people and giving incorrect information.
> 
> This foal is a Bay Dun. The color genetic percentages posted do not include Bay Dun for some reason, but its complete impossible for red dun and grulla to show up without bay dun showing up. So i dont know whats up with that?
> 
> ...


Sooo sorry, I was trying to help


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ill take my own advice now. 

I missed where BOTH parents they are E_aa.

So ND; are we looking at a very sandy colored grulla? Or very sooty red dun?
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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm not saying either way as, sorry OP, the pictures suck. They are hazy, even the younger one, and aren't good for judging color off of.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

It is still possible he will turn out to be grulla. my grulla has dun factor markings, the dorsal stripe and zebra stripes


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Isn't grullo technically dun on a black based horse? So, if he was grullo, then he'd be dun.. no? I always thought they had the dun markings, dorsal, zebra strips on shoulder, legs.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Yep, Grulla = black dun
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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I know the pictures suck and the ones I have on this computer suck too, the better ones are on my laptop that crashed. The mares dam was a red dun solid, her sire is listed as a brown tovero. The sires dam is listed as a brown tobiano, sire is listed as a black solid. I don't know if that helps at all. I don't see any red in the colts coat, so I don't think chestnut or bay, brown possibly.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Spotted said:


> Has she had any other foals. That would be cool if she is Homozygous For the Dun factor !! This foal already says yes for the possiblity


This is her first foal.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

The pics are not very good, but based on the info I'm going to say grulla. I 'think' I remember seeing other,clearer pics of him younger and at the time thought he looked bay dun, but since that is not possible, he does look black based and dun, so grulla is most likely.


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## Allegro (Nov 16, 2012)

He would be considered a dun tobiano....Grulla's are a mousey color: not as brown but more smokey


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## Allegro (Nov 16, 2012)

Oh, and he's not a bay....Bay's don't have any frosting, dorsal stripes, or zebra stripes and there's no such thing as a bay dun I'm pretty he's a coyote dun...he's darker than most but he's still coyote dun


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Allegro said:


> He would be considered a dun tobiano....Grulla's are a mousey color: not as brown but more smokey


Grulla is decided by their genes, not their displaying colour. Grulla is a black horse with dun genes.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Allegro said:


> Oh, and he's not a bay....Bay's don't have any frosting, dorsal stripes, or zebra stripes


Really? They can't? Are you sure? These are from the same horse, who cannot possibly be dun...






















Allegro said:


> and there's no such thing as a bay dun I'm pretty he's a coyote dun...he's darker than most but he's still coyote dun


There IS such a thing as bay dun - it's the "normal" dun colouring, or the one that most people just call "dun". Like this guy:









Not really sure what you mean when you say "coyote dun" though. There is no such thing as that, unless it's a regional name for a shade of dun that has no meaning to anyone outside of that region.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Coyote dun is just a shade of dun. Its the dark sooty color, more then likely "brown dun" to be technically correct. But since theres no such thing as bay+dun, there wouldnt be a brown+dun either...
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## Allegro (Nov 16, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> Grulla is decided by their genes, not their displaying colour. Grulla is a black horse with dun genes.


I know that. But the correct name for it isn't bay dun its Coyote dun. Bay is just referring to the base coat color from which it was modified.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Allegro said:


> I know that. But the correct name for it isn't bay dun its Coyote dun. Bay is just referring to the base coat color from which it was modified.


Sorry, but you're wrong. Bay dun is the correct term. Coyote dun is not the correct term for the colour, never has been, nor will it ever be.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ agreed. Bay dun is the correct term. Coyote dun is just a shade. Like "liver chestnut"
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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I've never heard the term Coyote Dun either, but he's no where near the color of the coyotes around here they are more tanish grey not brownish.


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## Allegro (Nov 16, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> ^^^ agreed. Bay dun is the correct term. Coyote dun is just a shade. Like "liver chestnut"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay thank you then! I didn't realize that. Thanks for the info i always like learning something new and sorry if I sounded rude or corrective at some time I didn't mean to.


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