# Please judge my daughter!



## anned22 (Oct 13, 2012)

She has been riding for a little over a year, and this is Al. She knows that she needs to work on her arms being bent...see anything else? She's going to have her first schooling show at the end of this month, and she's so excited. She's 9. She is doing about 20 inch jumps now. I don't have one of her jumping though...


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm subbing to this because I have an opinion about this, but I am NOT sufficiently knowledgeable to state them without seeing what others have to say first.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

What a cute little peanut. I agree with bringing her arms back to her a bit. Can't see a huge bit from this picture. She is 9, she just started riding and, it is a snapshot, not a whole picture (video) so, I wouldn't say too much. Keep up the good work, I am sure she will be great.

Is the schooling show at the barn where she trains or off site? This is a great learning experience for her. I know there are those that hate seeing a little person on a bigger horse but I personally think she looks great on that horse. Hand position will of course help headset but again... 9 and starting out.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I'd like to see a straighter back
I think she's arching because of holding her arms that way.


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## heymckate (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm surprised to hear she's doing 20-inch jumps after riding for only a year... kind of like the other thread here asking for opinions about a daughter. That just seems awfully fast to me.

She seems to have a decent foundation. I agree with the previous poster--I'd like to see less arch in her back and a bend in her elbows. Her toes also seem to be pointed out a bit. Beyond that, it's hard to tell without a video. One snapshot, especially of a beginner child, doesn't often paint a full picture.

I wish her the best of luck in her upcoming show!


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

I would need to see vid to say whether or not i believe if it is appropriate for her to be jumping at this point.
I started riding when i was five, and i remember looking down at the saddle and thinking: "dang it... my legs don't even touch this horses sides!" hahaha! This picture reminds me of that. Such a cutie.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

I agree with all above posts. point toes forward with the heels down, elboes go back to her side, and less arch. I think the arch would go away if she relaxed a little more and leaned a bit more to the back. Also, it may just be the picture but it would be important that she keep her head up and looking forward and not at the horse as it looooks like she is doing here but I am not positive; my trainer told me to sit in the saddle as if I were a beauty queen or princess if that helps!


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

It's tough to see her leg position in this photo because it is so dark, but to me it looks like she has a good foundation.

I disagree that her elbows need to be bent. As long as the elbows are not locked in a straight position, having open elbows is not an equitation fault as seen in these top riders:

















What is MORE important is to get her sitting back a touch and rolling her shoulders down. As her shoulders press down towards her hips, she can come into a more stable alignment.
As well (and her reins can be lengthened to achieve this) her hands can come down and rest on the saddle pad or the horse's withers to help them to learn to become independent of her body.

Overall I'm impressed by the stability of her lower body, but she needs to work on creating that same stability in her upper body as well, not allowing the horse to tip her forward. This is created with a strong back, and shoulders pressed down.

Good luck!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

she is adorble no matter And Welcome to the Forum


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## Fulford15 (Oct 17, 2012)

First off, I'd like to say, what a great pair! She has a very nice hunter seat for her age level, her stirrup length looks good and her leg position looks great, I also love that she is looking ahead. 

Only things I can see is roll her shoulders back, thumbs up (no "piano hands!"). I would get her to loosen the reins just a tad to allow bend in her elbows and to have a comfortable contact with the horses mouth.
Keep up the fabulous work!!


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## flyinghighleo (Oct 16, 2012)

she is slouching forward a tiny bit ! Tell her to sit back, with her back nice and straight and her arms will find their place... she looks good ! Wishing her luck for the show ..


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## LizNicole520 (Jul 31, 2012)

I don't think she is slouching but rather making up the for length of rein she has. She has a good seat and nice position of leg. I'll second the opinions of a little more rein given which will allow her shoulders back. That will give her the freedom to position her arms as needed with less. I feel a "tense" feeling from the rein and shoulders foward position. Like she is fighting maybe a forward falling feeling from not being rolled back in the shoulder herself.  She is gonna be a star!


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Alrighty, now that people have had their say, I will voice my concern. Which is not about the OPs daughter in particular -- it's about small children on full size horses. Keep in mind, I have no experience with this please.

I don't understand how anyone is supposed to learn proper techniques when the equipment they are learning on is too big for them. In this case, the horse. When we take part in a sport, we use equipment suitable for our size, weight and skill level. So, as a small beginner, I would use a small, calm horse. Not necessarily a pony, but a very small horse. A large beginner would use a larger, calm horse. The more experience and knowledge we get, increases the variety of sizes, temperaments and skill level of the horses that are suitable.

If I compare this to skiing: ski length should be appropriate to the height of the skier, regardless of age. Ski shape should be appropriate to skill level and style and terrain. There is no way I would ever put a 4 foot tall person on the same ski as a 6 foot tall person if they are both at the same skill level (ie. not expert).

So, tell me please -- how does it work to put such a tiny person on a horse that, to me, looks far too large for the rider?

IMO, part of the difficulty the OPs daughter is having is that there is just too much physical distance for her to cover in her riding position - both horizontally and vertically.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

I learned to ride on a full size horse. This picture is my very first lesson. I was 5. I rode that mare for many years. Most ponies I have ridden, i might add, were nightmares to say the least. I would put my child on a Quarter Horse, before i would sit them on a Shetland, anyday!


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

NorthernMama said:


> small children on full size horses. Keep in mind, I have no experience with this please.
> 
> I don't understand how anyone is supposed to learn proper techniques when the equipment they are learning on is too big for them. In this case, the horse. When we take part in a sport, we use equipment suitable for our size, weight and skill level. So, as a small beginner, I would use a small, calm horse. Not necessarily a pony, but a very small horse. A large beginner would use a larger, calm horse. The more experience and knowledge we get, increases the variety of sizes, temperaments and skill level of the horses that are suitable.
> 
> ...


I don't think the ski analogy works really.

My now seven year old son started riding when he could sit, and his last pony was a 12hh welsh cross. He joined pony club when he was 4 and came off lead rein when he was five. His legs only got past the saddle when he hit six and a half, partly because he's small, and mainly because the pony was round!

The point I'm making is that whatever size the equine, a small child won't be able to get his or her legs to 'wrap around' as us adults do. In the UK it's extremely rare to see kids on horses, and the pony club world is stuffed with little round ponies. However, I have observed that in North America a lot of children ride larger horses perfectly competently. I think part of the reason is the Western reining and braking techniques don't require quite so much arm muscle as riding English can do.

Arguably, a bigger horses trot and canter is a lot more comfortable than a little ponies, and so easier to learn. What's far more important than size is attitude and training. I'd range put my son on a well behaved horse than an evil pony.


All that being said, I am now on the hunt for a pony here, and am looking for a 12hh -12.2 pony. But this is more because that's what he's used to - if someone points me at a perfect 14.2 I'd be happy.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I don't see why the ski analogy doesn't work.

I did say that I wouldn't put a child on a pony either. I don't like ponies in general and find they have too much personality and independence (read: pigheaded-ness!) for a novice rider.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

The ski analogy doesn't work.

I ski and snowboard.

You could use huge skis or tiny ones. You get used to what you have. I started out on a quarter horse and I turned out just fine.

I rode skis that were too big for me, I've ridden boards that are too small. 

^they weren't too big or too small. It's comfort and preference. Might take some getting used to, but what doesn't?


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Ya, okay. We can do all kinds of things - ride horses that are too big for us, or too advanced for us (I did that one), use skis that are too big for us or too stiff for us, lift weights that are too heavy for us - whatever. 

I am referring here to people that are trying to learn correctly in whatever activity. Fact of the matter is, if we go back to skiing (since I used to instruct), a 4', 80 lb kid can not control a pair of 175 skis properly unless said child has already learned a good base on a pair of 110's. And even then, the shear length of the child's legs determines how much the child will have to overcompensate weight shifting on those too-long skis. And with the skis we have now, it's about turning your foot - sorry, but a child size foot with 80 lbs can't turn what a adult's size foot with 120 lbs can.

Yes, a child can learn on a horse. I encourage horses over ponies everyday, but only because it's hard to find a good pony. But are we going to put a 4' child on a 18h Percheron and teach them how to jump? No? Well, why not? If it's all the same? Because it's NOT the same. Said child would fair better on a 14.2h Quarterhorse. It's the physical limitations of size I'm referring to. Even better if there was a "un-evil" pony, but we do have to use what is available after all. 

Acch, I wish I knew more about the technical part of riding to give an example for riding. Leg commands for sure are messed up and worse as the size difference increases. For just walking, trotting and cantering without any commands except through weight shifts and reins, I can see how size doesn't matter as much. But when we talk about jumping and dressage, I just don't get how it can work. 

Maybe I should shut up now. I wish I had more resources so I could learn more. <sigh>


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## Amberish2002 (May 26, 2012)

Important considerations for a beginner: learning balance, steering and timing on a well trained, spook-free individual that likes to "take care" of it's rider.. I.e likely to stop gently if it feels them sliding around... A lot of the really nice ones are voice trained. The only real problem I would see with a little one on a horse is the distance to the ground if they do happen to fall off. Otherwise, a nice babysitter type is welcome in my barn any day of the week, 12.2 or 16.2 Don't care. 
But that's just me.


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## Fulford15 (Oct 17, 2012)

I am a tiny person, 105 lbs, 5'3, I look like a peanut on most horses and always have, just cause someone is to small for a big horse doesn't mean they can't be an effective rider!


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

Her elbows need to come WAY back.


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## Bluebird (Jul 20, 2011)

She looks lovely! What I would say is that the horse is a little too big for her to get into a good riding position so the position is not her fault at all. The distance between her body and the horses neck is too far for her. Her arms are straight and they chouldn't be. Again, not her fault. She is also sitting a little too far back in the saddle which is making her lean forwards. I think if you put her on a pony which suits her size, her riding position for english riding would be excellent and then we could do a proper critique. However, I think good for you letting her get used to different sizes of horses. She will grow into them eventually. She could ride my Clydesdale (18.2) anytime and he would love her!


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