# Breeding Young Horses



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

So I just wanted to ask opinions on what age is appropriate for the first breeding of a mare. 

I know some people say 3, some 4, some 6-7 and some people I know have bred there mares at 2 years old. 

So what are your opinions on what age is best suited for the first breeding? and why you think that!


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

I definitley wouldnt breed a 2-5 aged horse, cause to me they are still young at that age. But that's just me. As far as evidence based about what age is good I honestly don't know.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

i would only breed a horse a) if they are proven in a show ring b) if the horse is a great example of the breed, phenomenal conformation and c) once the mare has reached her full growth potential. That could be 4 years, or as late at 7/8 years. it all depends on their breed and the individual. 

I personally would not breed a horse before 5 years od age. Thats my own values, my own opinions. 

I knew a "breeder" that allowed yearlings - 3 year olds to be bred. I saw first hand the results of that and will never condone that early breeding. period.

at 3-4 years old, what has the mare (or stallion) even done to warrent being bred? chances are, not much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TexasBlaze (Oct 4, 2010)

I bred my very mature four year old this year. She will be 5 before she throws the foal. I think breeding (at time of conception) anything less than that isn't mentally mature or physically mature enough to consider breeding.


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## Labrador (Jul 31, 2013)

I agree with morganarab- I would not breed before age five. I know a three year old who is pregnant and she is still so small and growing and viturally un handled. That will just make the whole process so much harder...both on the owners and the horse. I would want my horse to be mature- both physically and mentally, as well as well trained and safe. A nice show record would definitely be a plus. But breeding an untrained filly who is still a baby herself? Not for me.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

CLaPorte432 said:


> at 3-4 years old, what has the mare (or stallion) even done to warrent being bred? chances are, not much.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's greed. That's all it is. They can't prove that their horses can do anything but reproduce, yet tout what amazing saddle horses/ examples of the breed etc. 

If all they can do is reproduce, they're not a fine example of anything.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Heck not even three or four, but TWO. 

There is no good reason on this earth to breed a 2-year-old. None what so ever.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Heck not even three or four, but TWO.
> 
> There is no good reason on this earth to breed a 2-year-old. None what so ever.


Completely agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I won't even think about it til they're 4 ish.


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## MsLady (Apr 18, 2013)

We got 2 broodmares this past April, 1 was 11 and had a 5 month old filly at her side and the other was 3 and due to foal any day. 

After the 3 year old had the colt, the difference in how these 2 mares mothered their foals were huge. I'm glad the older mare was there to help the younger one, she was just too young mentally to take care of her colt. She actually left him in the pasture twice, we had to go find him, he was sleeping, she left him to go eat her grain! 

I may not know much and am fairly new to this, but 3 is way too young to breed!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

The earliest I would breed a mare would be her 5 year old year. Looking at her physically, that year is the year when her joints (including the ones in her pelvis) finish growing. Her growth is starting to slow down, so there won't be such nutritional demands on her as she grows a foal. By the time she has her foal she will be 6 and filled out or nearly filled out and will be physically able to support a healthy foal.

In terms of training, I will have 3 years to train and ride her. Her 3 year old year will be light, as she's still a baby. Her 4 year old year will be free for normal training, and her 5 year old year will just build on that until winter time when she starts to feel the physical demand of being pregnant. In the spring when she foals, she will have had enough training under her belt that it will be ok to give her basically that season off, save back to work riding/training late in the summer/early fall when she can start to be taken away from her foal.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Now, keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has never had a mare bred.

Personally, I likely wouldn't want to breed any mare before 6-7 years old. By that point, they should be old enough to have proven themselves finished at some discipline. AND, at that age, their back should be fully matured so the stress of carrying a foal isn't likely to cause damage to their back and make them more prone to a sway.

I sometimes wonder if there's ever been a study done about the severity of a broodmare sway as compared to how early she became a broodie. I would think that if she was started young at 2-3 years old and had a baby every year until she was 20, that her back would be much worse off than a mare that was bred first at 6 and carried a foal every year until she was 20.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

MsLady said:


> I may not know much and am fairly new to this, but 3 is way too young to breed!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


100% agree. To me, breeding before they are AT LEAST 4, is like a 15 y.o. human girl having a baby. 15 may actually be being generous, but you get my drift. 4 is even kind of early for me, but if the mare was OUTSTANDING, mentally, physically and temperament, I might consider it. I really prefer to wait til 5 or even later, to give them time to be fillies and mature themselves.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

I believe 5 or so would be acceptable. Being bred at that age, there's little nutritional demand until nearly the 6th year. 
My Solei I didn't breed until 7, because she didn't stop growing until then. Watching them closely and determining whether they are ready for being a matron is paramount. Each horse has to be looked at individually.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I bred my guy before he was 3, I want to see what he's going to put on the ground and whether I will continue having a stallion or a gelding. Unfortunately the mare miscarried that foal, so his first 2 are coming this coming spring, bred when he was 3. Still the same easy going, big goof he was when I got him before he was a yearling. Still goes on trail with the mares and behaves, still rides at shows with the mares and behaves.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Back to the actual topic-- here's an article by a Vet that may be in conflict with some opinions, ( I would not breed a mare at 2) but offers some good advice:

EquiSearch’s Ask the Vet: Mare Breeding Age

It is certainly possible to breed a regular horse at the age of 2 for a foal at 3. That is if the filly is mature and on a good plan of nutrition. She needs to not be too fat or too thin and should have a good source of free choice minerals, high quality hay and grain as needed. You have to remember that being in foal and growing at the same time put additional stresses on the filly. Does she have good conformation and temperament? Does she have a healthy shape to her back or is it long and weak? Are you planning to try to ride and break her to saddle during this time? If you are going to breed a young horse, she really should not do much else during that time except get some light exercise and have plenty of pasture time.

If her temperament is poor, and you are hoping that breeding her will sort her out, it is best not to breed her. If she passes her temperament along to her foal, then you have two of them with difficult personalities.

This letter came to EquiSearch.com very late in the breeding season. Mares are at their most fertile in the spring and early summer and the gestation time is about 11 months. So a breeding in September or October can result in an August or September foal. It is safest to have a foal in the spring before the weather gets too hot. A foal has a fairly heavy coat naturally and the summer heat can be an extreme stress. Certainly foals can be born at other times of the year, but it takes much more careful management and the risks are greater. Since it is late in the year, it would be best to wait until next spring and be really ready to breed in late March or April.

Perhaps the ideal age to breed a mare for the first time is when she is 3 to foal at 4, or 4 to foal at 5. However, there are many factors that can change that ideal age. Mares that are starting a show career may be in training at that time and should not be asked to carry a foal, grow and train. Pick one or the other. She can be ridden and educated while in foal at that age, but should not be in hard training. Mares who are a bit older (5-6 years old), fit and working hard can be bred and kept in work until they are too heavy in foal to be comfortable working, but even then they can go for easy trail rides.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

When I first started breeding several big breeders told me to put my filly in foal at 3 years. So, I tried. She wasn't having any part of it. She'd cycle but she was not interested in being bred and absolutely wouldn't settle. I tried several cycles, and we used an excellent repro vet but finally had to quit for the year. The next year, at 4, sent her to the stallion and she caught the first try. So, I thought, "Well, she was young."

Next mare to come 3, goes to the breeding shed and same result. Wouldn't even tease for the stallion and even though they collected and inseminated right away, no go. As soon as she was 4, first shipment and boom, she's in foal. 

So over the years I came to the conclusion that I'd rather wait til they're 4 or even 5 before I even try. All those attempts cost money and I hate wasting money. Now that I've downsized so much, I even just do live cover with my own mares, on farm. We do all the pre-breeding vet work, but just bring them to the stallion when it's breeding time.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

waiting a few years and putting training into them allows you to pick up on things you may not have noticed before they were started. For example, a filly might be OK on the ground, but not well suited to work under saddle. Or a soundness issue may show up. One filly was started for the track but didn't want to run at all, so my BO ended up with her. She turned out to have a heart defect, and died of heart failure. The vet didn't detect the defect, it was only with the demands of being ridden that it showed up.

I have seen a few other horses show up with joint abnormalities upon being ridden that were hereditary, and you would not have know unless you had an extensive exam done, they showed up with the stress of being ridden.


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## srcosticov (Aug 14, 2013)

For me, 5 is the absolute earliest and that is only if the horse has excellent conformation and temperament (if they are unproven)... but I would much rather wait until they are 6-7 years of age.

There is no reason to breed prior to 5 and doing so is breeding a horse whose muscular-skeletal structure isn't fully developed.


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## Arab Mama (Jun 10, 2012)

Although I don't breed myself, I have a couple of friends that are experienced horse people and the had similar experiences with young studs. As the studs started to mature, they became aggressive and unmanageable and had to be gelded. Since temperament is something breeders hope to pass on, I'd think you would want to wait to make sure it is a temperament you WANT to pass on. Another breeder I know had a nice young stud that she started breeding and he became so unmanageable that she had to make the decision to send him to boot camp. If he didn't straighten out, he was going to be gelded. IMO, any breeder that has the horse's best interest at heart will wait until the horse matures at age five or more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

One of the top endurance horses in this country was bred at 2 and foaled at three. She has been ridden thousands of miles and always placed in the top ten and has numerous best condition awards. And still going strong at 8. 
Endurance is a lot more demanding than circling an arena. 
There is no evidence that breeding a 2 year old that is healthy and receives proper nutrition will cause any lasting detrimental harm.
I have never bred a mare that young but if I owned a filly that was well bred but injured and broodmare sound only I would breed her to see if she had a place in the broodmare band.
I have no issues breeding a mare 3 and up and have done so repeatedly.
There is no reason to not breed a mare that is not being shown or used for riding. I dont allow my horses to be broken until they are 3 but most 4 and sometimes 5.
It is not about greed but wanting to know what future the mare has in my herd.
I have never had a horse with soundness issues, hoof problems or bowed tendons.
Unless the horse has excelled at reining, cutting, barrels, endurance, jumping, dressage, or eventing I wouldnt give a dime for its show record. Shalom


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

dbarabians said:


> One of the top endurance horses in this country was bred at 2 and foaled at three. She has been ridden thousands of miles and always placed in the top ten and has numerous best condition awards. And still going strong at 8.
> Endurance is a lot more demanding than circling an arena.
> There is no evidence that breeding a 2 year old that is healthy and receives proper nutrition will cause any lasting detrimental harm.
> I have never bred a mare that young but if I owned a filly that was well bred but injured and broodmare sound only I would breed her to see if she had a place in the broodmare band.
> ...


Yes there is... More so if the mare has never been ridden nor done anything worthy of passing on. Conformation and bloodlines alone are not reasons to breed a horse. 

Just because an animal has a functioning reproductive tract does not mean that it should be bred. If injured with no future usability? Well breeding in that case depends on the injury... Not standing up to training and was injured? Don't breed it, etc, etc.


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## srcosticov (Aug 14, 2013)

dbarabians said:


> One of the top endurance horses in this country was bred at 2 and foaled at three. She has been ridden thousands of miles and always placed in the top ten and has numerous best condition awards. And still going strong at 8.
> Endurance is a lot more demanding than circling an arena.
> There is no evidence that breeding a 2 year old that is healthy and receives proper nutrition will cause any lasting detrimental harm.
> I have never bred a mare that young but if I owned a filly that was well bred but injured and broodmare sound only I would breed her to see if she had a place in the broodmare band.
> ...


I have to respectfully disagree with the majority of what you're saying.

First of all, I don't think that Endurance (as a sport) is more or less difficult than any other discipline. Each sport requires a different skill set that puts the horses abilities to the test, and often great horses have their abilities pushed to the limit.

Secondly, there is sufficient evidence to suggest that breeding prior to the back being fully developed can be detrimental to a horse later in life. I don't believe that simply because it hasn't happened to you is legitimate "proof" when there are several scientific studies that have been done to prove otherwise.

Third, I completely disagree with breeding a horse that has not proven themselves. Since I don't believe that one should breed prior to 5 (preferably 6-7) or be on the road to finishing until then, it would be difficult to be a "proven" horse for a finished sport. I do, however, feel that being shown in hand and receiving recognition for equitation around age 5 is an excellent foundation.

Lastly, you mentioned that you aren't doing it because you're greedy, but because you, "want to know what future the mare has in (your) heard." I am sorry if I am misunderstanding, but that sounds like an experiment rather than a well planned breeding. You should have a good idea of where a horse stands without it being an experiment in your breeding program - that is just a huge red flag to me.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I own a daughter of Thee Desparado and a double bred grand daughter both mares are excellent examples of the arabian horse with refined heads and outstanding pedigrees.
I bred both this year at the age of 5 qand 6 neither are broke to ride and wont be for some time.
Both foals are already sold to well known breeders.
There are plenty of horses that because of their bloodlines and conformation alone deserve to be bred. Most knowledgeable breeders understand that.
There is no evidence that breeding a sound correct filly that is given good nutrition is harmful. NONE.
Not every filly should be and I never have. 
NDAppy I stated that if a mare was injured and only brood mare sound. Not with a genetic flaw or major fault .
My mares are all trained at some time and are ridden. These two mares were purchased untrained and I have not felt the need to train either.
With 31 horses , a full time job, rental property, and a 3,000 acre place to manage that is not a priority.
All the mares I own except the elderly ones are broodmares first and foremost.
I dont show and see no need to until I start to promote Cassius.
We are talking horses here not children.
Imparting human morals unto breeding horses is unrealistic.
in the wild a 2 year old filly running in a herd would be bred they have evolved that way.
I always find it funny that people that would ride a horse at 2 or keep one in a stall, both things IMO are cruel and unnecessary , get self righteous about breeding practices.

Greed has nothing to do with any decision I make concerning my horses. Most will live out their lives at my place. I dont try and make any money from them if so I would not have 31 and about 10 over the age of 18. More than half of those over 25. Two over 30. Most breeders that breed for profit would have culled them long ago. Shalom


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> I own a daughter of Thee Desparado and a double bred grand daughter both mares are excellent examples of the arabian horse with refined heads and outstanding pedigrees.
> I bred both this year at the age of 5 qand 6 neither are broke to ride and wont be for some time.
> Both foals are already sold to well known breeders.
> There are plenty of horses that because of their bloodlines and conformation alone deserve to be bred. Most knowledgeable breeders understand that.
> ...


I agree. You make a good point about the disparity between the current attitude about breeding and the non issue with regard to everything else we ask horses to do which _*is*_ a non-issue because it's benefiting a personal want or need. Forcing horses into show rings to perform in unsuited disciplines and ruining their minds and ability to trust just to get a ribbon is pretty detrimental. I also believe endless hours in stalls is cruel and starting them under saddle too young is as well.
Having great conformation and excellent bloodlines does indeed warrant breeding. Look at Rohara-- one of the biggest, most successful Arabian breeders in the world. They produce excellent stock before being shown under saddle and how many have gone on to National titles later?? I couldn't count them all. I, just a few days ago, got offered a Padron Psyche daughter bred by Rohara who was not shown and has had 2 foals- one this year by Progrom, and a filly in 2011, who went on to win 2012 Region 8 Arabian Yearling Filly Champion. Obviously she was bred somewhere around 4. I am seriously considering buying her. It's not everyday a young, broke, big-bodied, Padron Psyche daughter, who's a good mover falls in your lap. And I wouldn't feel the least bit put off that she join my herd. :wink: 
If she's good enough for Rohara... she's good enough for me.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Druydess I understand that someone who has only one or two mares to breed wants to ensure they have a show record. You want to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible.
A show record will help promote and sell that foal and increase its value.
I get that. 
When judges are fair and who trained, showed or bred a horse doesnt matter then I might change my mind.
How much silver is on a saddle and if it is the "in' colour should not matter.

The only way to prove breeding stock is to breed them. After entering the breeding shed that show record is irrelevant if a good foal is not produced.
Rohara is a successful program.
People who breed on a larger scale have differing opinions from small breeders.
If I do not break my horses to saddle until late in their 3 third year but mostly 4 why not get a foal out of a filly to see what she can produce?
The mare that I posted about earlier was not broken until 4 and did not enter her first endurance race until 5. By the way she carried a large man more than 5,000 miles. That is all the proof I need to know a good sound conformationally correct filly is not in danger of long term damage from carrying a foal. 
I am not planning on breeding a filly at two. I like to wean them halter break them then turn them loose to be horses handling them every other day. No hurry here to prove a horses value. Shalom


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I know a couple that purchased a four year old mare in foal at a sale. They found out after the mare had foaled (and lost the foal) that this was her second foal. She had been trained for the races, not made it and been put in foal as a 2-3 year old. This was the sweetest mare, who had the saddest eyes ever. I know thats not scientific but it just made you feel like this little mare had been used much to hard. Which may have contributed to her losing the foal. This mare had done more than horses twice her age. Her new owners promptly gave her some well earned time off to just be a horse. 

I think 5-6 is a good age to first breed. In addition to knowing the temperament and potential of the horse the mare is done growing. Pregnancy and nursing are really hard on a horse and I want my horse be up to that challenge. 

I can see the appeal of knowing if a mare is going to fit into a group and horses are basically big expensive money pits. That said, I don't know that I would breed a young horse because I want to know its potential. I will agree that a horse does not necessarily have to have a performance record to be a good broodmare. I think a mare that is well mannered, with good conformation and the ability to do a task (which may just be a trail horse or a therapeutic riding horse) can have a place in a breeding program. When that is done it needs to be an unbias opinion. What happens to much (IMO) is that people think snookums is a sweetheart who would love to be a mother. When in reality snookums is difficult to handle, an unreliable steed, has either not been shown or shown at local shows and is a conformational train wreck. This mare is then bred to pete's stud down the street and the result is just gah.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Good points rookie. There are many talents a horse can have, and be good at them, besides a show ring. Some show horses I've seen are so freaked out being outside, they're useless. They do nothing else but run around rings.
Breeding conformational train wrecks is not acceptable. There are enough great horses out there that will produce excellent stock if one takes the time to research and plan.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> My mares are all trained at some time and are ridden. These two mares were purchased untrained and I have not felt the need to train either.
> With 31 horses , a full time job, rental property, and a 3,000 acre place to manage that is not a priority.
> All the mares I own except the elderly ones are broodmares first and foremost.
> I dont show and see no need to until I start to promote Cassius.
> ...


I didn't have time to address these points-- had to see patients. 

I find it interesting that some people assume simply because a horse is not shown in a ring, it's useless and does nothing. I have horses doing various jobs. Most trail, one just started competitive trail, several pack kids around, one does barrels, one reins-- and no-- it's not my QH-- she's a lazy thing..etc.. But because I didn't "buy" a ribbon to prove it.. they're not breedworthy. I actually think it's a great idea for horses to have practical jobs that doesn't require make-up, braids, and a personal secretary. The _*vast*_ majority of people want usable horses that they can afford. THAT is the population that will buy. 
Mine get schooled very well and are _*extremely*_ well mannered, social, willing, and responsive. THAT is what the majority of people look for. 
I also have a FT job, fortunately with incredible flexibility, so I prefer to spend my time with my horses... not chasing dubious ribbons of dubious value. With your point about Cassius.. I will show Dream (have once already) and Psynny only to get a few accomplishments for the record. I do this begrudgingly as I know too many top trainers who have shared the reality of it with me- and the entire system is corrupt. Imagine having horses returned with wires in their gums so they could shock them (they forgot to remove them before sending them back) ..all to make them stand up pretty.. Horse won though- so it's all good.
I find it ridiculous and unrealistic that people expect a horse to have a list of accomplishments as a yearling or even a three year old. I will NOT ruin my horse by backing him or her too early OR putting them in extremely stressful situation that can risk their health if they're not ready to handle it. That's abuse in my book. *I* have pulled horses from classes because I felt they were already too stressed,
I also do not expect to make money off of what I enjoy. I don't have to. There are different reasons for breeding and people have to get over their own biases and realize others live and choose differently. It's not _your_ choice; it's the breeder's choice. I breed, care for, spend time with, ride, train wonderful Arabians because _*I can.*_ I have the money, the resources, and the time. I can choose to sell-- or choose to keep. I will buy more, I will breed more, I will teach them to be outstanding citizens, and I will enjoy every second of it! It's a wonderful thing if it's done right.:wink:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> I always find it funny that people that would ride a horse at 2 or keep one in a stall, both things IMO are cruel and unnecessary , get self righteous about breeding practices.


I would not ride a horse at 2, I would not keep my 2 year old in a stall, ad I as sure as all heck would not consider breeding her, because she is a baby, she hasn't done all her growing yet, she needs to move, and to mature, she doesn't need to carry me or a baby.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> Druydess I understand that someone who has only one or two mares to breed wants to ensure they have a show record. You want to stack the deck in your favor as much as possible.
> A show record will help promote and sell that foal and increase its value.
> I get that.
> When judges are fair and who trained, showed or bred a horse doesnt matter then I might change my mind.
> ...


I totally get it too. I would even consider it if I knew which judge was officiating. There are a few I respect and know they judge fairly. There's a way to show safely, but it's not the norm, unfortunately. It's a fact that certain judges attract entrants for very different reasons. Some owe favors; some are dishonest- some have agendas- so there will be entrants who have a vested interest in showing up. And they will win-- but not by merit. And then there's those who simply do their job without agenda. THOSE are the rare ones.

I agree with regard to breeding being the only way to truly prove a horse. Doesn't matter what he or she has done if it produces garbage. I'll take my Fae any day over a so-so foal who's Daddy got the biggest fou-fou ribbon. She speaks for herself.

I take my time with all my horses as well. I handle and train them according to their ability. Developing a sound mind is my priority. The age of breeding depends entirely on the horse and their maturity, mind, physical development, and my own instinct.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Golden Horse and rookie I see understand your reservations. You make your case well and will get no argument from me.
Again I have never bred a two year old filly and I already have given my thoughts on riding one. Horses live a long time and I see no reason to rush their training or development .
However a few years ago I had a filly born that was injured at a young age. IF she did not heal properly she would not be able to be ridden. I do not believe in keeping livestock simply to feed and care for. The older mares here have earned their retirement but keeping a young horse for 25+ years is asking a lot.
I talked about my options with the vet and he suggested using her as a broodmare and breeding her at a young age. Either that or place her with someone or euthanize her. Thankfully she healed and is healthy and sound today. Would I have bred her at 2 perhaps to see if she has a place here.
With over 30 horses and spending at least 2,000 a year on feed and care each I would be foolish to not have a purpose for each of them.
i will breed Cassius as a 2 year old next year and as a three year old.
As Shelia Varian stated in an article she waited until Bay Abi was broke and won several championships before breeding him. That was the last time she made that mistake.
if Cassius lives up to his potential then in 3-4 years at he age of six he will have offspring competing to promote him.
Waiting until 5 or 6 then not knowing what his offspring can do until 9 or 10 to me is ridiculous. Shalom


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> Golden Horse and rookie I see understand your reservations. You make your case well and will get no argument from me.
> Again I have never bred a two year old filly and I already have given my thoughts on riding one. Horses live a long time and I see no reason to rush their training or development .
> However a few years ago I had a filly born that was injured at a young age. IF she did not heal properly she would not be able to be ridden. I do not believe in keeping livestock simply to feed and care for. The older mares here have earned their retirement but keeping a young horse for 25+ years is asking a lot.
> I talked about my options with the vet and he suggested using her as a broodmare and breeding her at a young age. Either that or place her with someone or euthanize her. Thankfully she healed and is healthy and sound today. Would I have bred her at 2 perhaps to see if she has a place here.
> ...


I knew I remembered reading about her regret in breeding later, but it was eons ago...

Here's that very article:
Varian Arabians - History: Bay Abi++

Keep in touch with me about Cassius; would love some pics privately if kc and her superpowers are up to it. What's his Reg's name again?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

One of the reasons Cassius was such a great bargain was the fact I paid for his registration and that for some reason is still pending. They were sent in yet no word on when his papers will be sent. His breeder sold him to me knowing I would have him trained and shown. She owns his dam and sire as well as a half sister so his success will reflect on her program.
His dam is a stunning 16 hand mare that has a dish most halter horses wish for and bone and conformation good enough to be certified for warmblood breeding. I think Cassius will too. She did not pass on her dish but bone and athletic build he inherited. His sister though has the dish, bone , and build.
i hate to wish that rough times continue for some but if the breeder has to make a quick sale again she is my radar as a purchase. Shalom


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## tranquilo (Dec 17, 2007)

I'm sure Sheila was disappointed that it took awhile for Bay Abi's first foals to show, but I've also heard her say several times that it's important for her stallions to get in the show ring and prove they're trainable and talented enough to go out and compete with their peers. Every stallion on her roster has a show record.

The earliest we've bred a mare was 5 and I'd prefer not to breed any earlier. We're breeding for performance horses, so we want to know that the mare has talent under saddle, and hopefully by 5 they've been able to show and prove it. We're nobody in the show world and have still had success proving our mares. When we decided to start breeding we bought a mare from Sheila, won US Nationals with her at 5 and she had her first foal at 6. That filly won Nationals as a 4YO and was bred the year after. Good judges will recognize a good horse. We only have a handful of mares so if we want any kind of success it's important that our foals can be competitive at a high level.

We've never really been interested in owning a breeding stallion, but if the colt we had this year grows up as nice as he looks now and keeps his good temperament he'll probably stay intact. I'm sure the temptation to test breed him will be there, but I've heard enough horror stories of colts becoming unmanageable because they were bred before going into training. So if we keep him, he'll be under saddle before he gets to breed, and again that'll give us a chance to see if he has the kind of talent and trainability that *should *be passed on.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I understand everyone everyones position. Every stallion prospect my family has owned bred mares at 2. None became unmanageable .
My stallion Star has bred mares every year since he was 2 and he can be led through a herd of mares in heat with only a rope halter. I dont use stud chains.
Sam my son of Samytyr was not bred until his racing career ended He is the one who is harder to handle. He prances paws the ground. 
Cassius will be in training when we test breed him. If his trainer suggest not breeding him I might reconsider. He will also only be shown up to the Regionals. I have no desire to go to Nationals and would rather have a winner of the Tevis than one with a National Championship. 
Now if any of his offspring get that far I probably will brag a little. LOL Shalom


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

tranquilo said:


> I'm sure Sheila was disappointed that it took awhile for Bay Abi's first foals to show, but I've also heard her say several times that it's important for her stallions to get in the show ring and prove they're trainable and talented enough to go out and compete with their peers. Every stallion on her roster has a show record.
> 
> The earliest we've bred a mare was 5 and I'd prefer not to breed any earlier. We're breeding for performance horses, so we want to know that the mare has talent under saddle, and hopefully by 5 they've been able to show and prove it. We're nobody in the show world and have still had success proving our mares. When we decided to start breeding we bought a mare from Sheila, won US Nationals with her at 5 and she had her first foal at 6. That filly won Nationals as a 4YO and was bred the year after. Good judges will recognize a good horse. We only have a handful of mares so if we want any kind of success it's important that our foals can be competitive at a high level.
> 
> We've never really been interested in owning a breeding stallion, but if the colt we had this year grows up as nice as he looks now and keeps his good temperament he'll probably stay intact. I'm sure the temptation to test breed him will be there, but I've heard enough horror stories of colts becoming unmanageable because they were bred before going into training. So if we keep him, he'll be under saddle before he gets to breed, and again that'll give us a chance to see if he has the kind of talent and trainability that *should *be passed on.


Tranquilo I understand your position as well and agree with it in theory. From the dates, it would seem you had shown a while ago. The last decade or so, the Arabian ring has become a game of highest bidders and politics. It has always been there, but it's much worse today. There's a lot of backlash going on right now that will hopefully bring it back closer to what it was. I would consider that a preferred environment to show in with good judges as you say.

As far as breeding before training, I think you have to look at the individual horse. My stallion Dream was actually *calmer* _*after*_ breeding. I heard too, that he was going to become a monster, and it was the exact opposite, however, he is an exceptionally laid back stallion.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> I understand everyone everyones position. Every stallion prospect my family has owned bred mares at 2. None became unmanageable .
> My stallion Star has bred mares every year since he was 2 and he can be led through a herd of mares in heat with only a rope halter. I dont use stud chains.
> Sam my son of Samytyr was not bred until his racing career ended He is the one who is harder to handle. He prances paws the ground.
> Cassius will be in training when we test breed him. If his trainer suggest not breeding him I might reconsider. He will also only be shown up to the Regionals. I have no desire to go to Nationals and would rather have a winner of the Tevis than  one with a National Championship.
> Now if any of his offspring get that far I probably will brag a little. LOL Shalom


Neither did Dream; he became _more_ relaxed and manageable. Other stallions that have been on the farm that had been bred late and after training were complete nutcases. I was appalled. Not to say this is all due to being bred later, but again, I think each stallion has to be assessed on a case by case basis. Training is a big factor, as well as temperament. I insisted on a stallion with a history of ancestors that were calm, kind, and easily handled, and it does breed true. That, and consistent training, make an excellent stallion. Dream is always respectful, backs up naturally whenever I enter his stall, calmly waits to be fed and until I cue him he can eat, stands quietly until he's told a mare is ready, and loves human attention. The refrain I most often hear is: "_That's_ a stallion?"
I bought Dream just before he turned 2, so I had over a year to observe and evaluate his behavior, mental state, and natural disposition before making the decision to breed, and I am very glad I decided to.
My young fillies will have a longer wait..LOL
I agree on Nationals..the richest farms win the most prestigious titles no matter how good your horse is, so why be a class filler? We'll see how the Sport Horse ring comes along..and see if the overall ring politics change. If they do, I may change my mind.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Druydess winning at Nationals is quite an accomplishment . Just not something I want to spend the time and money to do. I also do not like the amount of time a horse is stalled while in training and in the possession of someone else. I am a hands on owner. The 15 I have here near Dallas I feed and care for. The rest at the farm Jesus and Miquel do a great job with.
tranquilo congrats are in order for your win. Shalom


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

tranquilo said:


> I'm sure Sheila was disappointed that it took awhile for Bay Abi's first foals to show, but I've also heard her say several times that it's important for her stallions to get in the show ring and prove they're trainable and talented enough to go out and compete with their peers. Every stallion on her roster has a show record.
> 
> The earliest we've bred a mare was 5 and I'd prefer not to breed any earlier. We're breeding for performance horses, so we want to know that the mare has talent under saddle, and hopefully by 5 they've been able to show and prove it. We're nobody in the show world and have still had success proving our mares. When we decided to start breeding we bought a mare from Sheila, won US Nationals with her at 5 and she had her first foal at 6. That filly won Nationals as a 4YO and was bred the year after. Good judges will recognize a good horse. We only have a handful of mares so if we want any kind of success it's important that our foals can be competitive at a high level.
> 
> We've never really been interested in owning a breeding stallion, but if the colt we had this year grows up as nice as he looks now and keeps his good temperament he'll probably stay intact. I'm sure the temptation to test breed him will be there, but I've heard enough horror stories of colts becoming unmanageable because they were bred before going into training. So if we keep him, he'll be under saddle before he gets to breed, and again that'll give us a chance to see if he has the kind of talent and trainability that *should *be passed on.



Congrats on your achievements at Nationals! That is truly a horse to be proud of!

Too many people are willing to breed animals that they have no idea of trainability. They breed for color, or simply because they like breeding. That is why the horse market is absolutely in the dumps and horses are going to 'foreign buyers' daily. It's not the person wanting a foal for themselves. It's the middle of the road breeder with horses they've picked up for cheap/free (obviously if you're getting horses for free/cheap, your breed is in a surplus and that ought to be screaming to you STOP BREEDING) and it's the large breeders who don't care about what's winning they'll pump as many out as they can because eventually one of them will sell.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Just thought I'd throw in a reminder of the original post and it's question, which was posed by someone who is thinking about breeding her young mare:

So I just wanted to ask opinions on what age is appropriate for the first breeding of a mare. 

I know some people say 3, some 4, some 6-7 and some people I know have bred there mares at 2 years old. 

So what are your opinions on what age is best suited for the first breeding? And why you think that!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> His dam is a stunning 16 hand mare that has a dish most halter horses wish for and bone and conformation good enough to be certified for warmblood breeding.


Warning I'm going fftopic:just a little.

Now personally, being of a bigger build, the idea of 16hh Arabs is somewhat appealing I must admit, but at the same time isn't that getting tall for an Arabian?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> So what are your opinions on what age is best suited for the first breeding? And why you think that!


Depends on the mare? and the breed and the circumstances.

Two is far to early, she is still a baby her frame is still setting, she has to build bone and muscle for herself.

Three is also young for me, although I did have a mare served at 3 for a foal at 4. It was a filly (see I call her a mare when talking about serving, but a filly when I bought her) I bought in the states, and I had the opportunity to have her served by an awesome stallion before she came home. I took the chance and she didn't take, I figured nature was reminding what a ****ty idea it was.

Breeding at 4 for a foal at 5 is acceptable to me for the majority of mares, if she has done most of her own growing and maturing, but that is just from the point of view of being able to reproduce. 

Trouble is she probably hasn't done much to prove that she is worthwhile of being bred, so I would rather not use her.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Here's an article written by a PhD that I found very interesting. I have thought that 4 or 5 is an optimal age to start, but this Dr. brings up some good points, so I may have to challenge my own beliefs. 

http://www.sefarm.com/breeding-info/434-appropriate-breeding-age

This point I'd not thought of before:_ For a young mare, having a foal before training can have distinct benefits. From having known and worked regularly with dozens of mares that foaled young, it is my impression that most seem to mature by leaps and bounds with foaling and caring for a foal. They tend to mellow with regard to human handling and training, seem less fearful and distracted, and are better able to focus on human direction. So breeding could be an ideal interlude between basic training and serious dressage training._

Seems you're on to something db!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Golden horse she is a true 16 hand and very typey. I have seen some other 16 hand arabians . Cassius is 15.1 and only 17 months old. His dam was the deciding factor for me. 

Tiny the youngest I have ever bred a mare was 3 and a long 3 at that.
I was going back to Israel to live for a couple of years and decided she might as well have a job. I also just sold my other stallion for export overseas and wanted a foal by the 2 of them. She is now 15 and just fine. 
With good nutrition there should be no problem breeding a young mare if she is physically capable of carrying the foal to term.
Breeding a 2 yo and turning her out to pasture is probably not a good idea. Shalom


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

I held off breeding Solei because I thought she needed a bit more maturity. However, the minute she was pregnant, she changed entirely. (She was 7) She was more focused, more confident, more affectionate, and just more mature. And what an exceptional mother she has been! Now-- she is the most together, mature mare in the place. She used be nearly last in the pecking order- now she's second only to Emma- our Alpha. Seeing the difference now, I wish I bred her earlier. I'll have to take that into consideration in the future.
She seems to back up that point in the previous article.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

some people have mentioned that the filly would not make a good mother at 2 because she lacks the mental maturity, and likened it to a 15 year old teen human having a baby. But, I wonder about that. Isn't most of a mare's care of the foal instinctual? I mean, are there not plenty of fillys who never have a chance to observe another mare raise a baby to LEARN what it means to be a mother, so that when they come to be a mommy, they rely solely on instinct.
they would likely not be as good a mother as they may become on their second or third baby, but that might be said for any maiden mare, whether they have had the mental exposure to watching another mare mother or not.
there's always a first time .

Wouldn't the mental maturity that some say a mare should have before she is bred be more a matter of having just spent time WITH other horses, in a herd , to learn about being a horse? And so, the lack of mental maturity might be more apparent in a filly that has lived her whole two years in the kind of stalled and seperated situations that disallow a horse to develop the "horse" sense that comes from herd life.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Tinyliny I think it is how we define mental maturity in equines.
Lets not forget that a 2 year old that is bred will be 3 when she foals. A lot more mature physically and mentally.
My Thee Despardo mare is flighty and high strung at 6. So is my favorite mare Krystal, a daughter of Bask Flame, at 15 and a mother 3 times already. I enjoy a spirited horse.
Rosie was bred to be a halter horse and Krystal a Park horse. Both types are highstrung . Most QH people would think they are mentally unbalanced. They are as they were bred to be. Both are intelligent mares and can be handled easily. Both remained very calm when they were injured and trusted me to DR them.
Krystal is an excellent mother and very protective of her foal. I could approach her but if anyone else was with me she remained some distance apart for the first week. After weaning this foal everyone is invited to witness the mini rodeo when I ride her for the first few times. Shalom


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

I think being with the herd has a HUGE impact on how ready they are to be mothers. Instinct usually kicks in very successfully, but I think other horses teach their peers more than we understand. I believe in having mine together in pastures and stalled only when necessary, so the dynamics and benefits of learned behavior as opposed to forced isolation makes sense to me.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I agree Druydess but I wonder if the age we wean at impacts how good a mother a mare will be?
I know of no studies that have been conducted but I do not wean until 8 months or later. Every filly I retained that was bred were good mothers.
i am not stating that weaning later matters but I do wonder. Shalom


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

dbarabians said:


> I agree Druydess but I wonder if the age we wean at impacts how good a mother a mare will be?
> I know of no studies that have been conducted but I do not wean until 8 months or later. Every filly I retained that was bred were good mothers.
> i am not stating that weaning later matters but I do wonder. Shalom



interesting point; what is affected by the age of weaning?


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I personally would not breed a mare before the age of four. As to the weaning, I have seen foals weaned anywhere from 2 1/2 months on up to 8 months, and later used as brood mares. I have not noticed a difference, in any area.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

The psychologist in me tells it has to matter if one weans early. yet as the above poster has mentioned no problems have been noted.
I have raised several orphan calves and they do not socially bond with other cattle. All have been good mothers but they were kept in a herd environment.
Maybe that is the key.
I would like to hear a few more opinions. Shalom


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I supposed its because any baby we have weaned, has been put directly into a small herd situation, usually with a bunch of mares. They spend a week or so with just a buddy, then get put out to pasture. My grandmother does not buy older horses, just babies. Frequently the foal is put onto a trailer with mom at 3 months, held, and mom taken right back out. We get home, baby is put into a stall with some hay and my Shetland next door for company. Within a few days baby has settled down and gets to spend a few weeks with just the pony, then put out with the mares. While it is not ideal and not how our babies will be weaned, there have been absolutely no lasting issues on any of them. Every baby she's ever raised and broke has gone on to be excellent at whatever they do, they are still in the homes she sold them to, and many are in their 20s and 30s still packing kids around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I wonder if there are any empirical studies into weaning age. It is one of the things I have never questioned, weaning happens around 6 months, always did, so it is what I still do if poss.

BUT....

Stewie was weaned at 4 months as he was HUGE and Bert was being drawn down by him.

I think we could argue this for ever, I'm kind of thinking that the 6 months I grew up with was in part to do with human babies being weaned onto solids at around that time, maybe?


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Addressing the weaning question.. it's not with regard to weaning early per se, but there's some data worth thinking about:

Summary
Stereotypies are invariant and repetitive behaviour patterns that seemingly have no function, which tend to develop in captive animals faced with insoluble problems and may be indicative of reduced welfare. A 4 year prospective study of the factors influencing the development of stereotypic and redirected behaviours (abnormal behaviour) in a population of 225 young Thoroughbred and part-Thoroughbred horses was conducted between 1995 and 1999. Abnormal behaviour affected 34.7% of the population. Multivariable analysis showed that foals of low- or middle-ranking mares were less likely to develop abnormal behaviour than foals of dominant mares (rate ratio (RR) 0.23, P<0.01; RR 0.48, P<0.01, respectively). Weaning by confinement in a stable or barn was associated with an increased rate of development of abnormal behaviour, compared with paddock-weaning (RR 2.19, P<0.05), and housing in barns, rather than at grass after weaning, was associated with a further increase (RR 2.54, P<0.01). Specific stereotypic and redirected behaviours were then considered as separate outcomes. Cribbiting was initiated by 10.5% of horses at median age 20 weeks, weaving by 4.6% of horses at median age 60 weeks, box-walking by 2.3% of horses at median age 64 weeks and wood-chewing by 30.3% of horses at median age 30 weeks. Wood-chewing developed at a lower rate in horses born to subordinate or mid-ranking mares than in horses born to dominant mares (RR 0.29, P<0.01; RR 0.41, P<0.01, respectively), and at a higher rate in horses kept in barns or stables rather than at grass after weaning (RR 4.49, P<0.001; RR 1.46, P<0.001, respectively). Feeding concentrates after weaning was associated with a 4-fold increase in the rate of development of crib-biting (RR 4.12, P = 0.02). The results of this study support the idea that simple changes in feeding, housing and weaning practices could substantially lower the incidence of abnormal behaviour in young horses.

From: Factors influencing the development of stereotypic and redirected behaviours in young horses: findings of a four year prospective epidemiological study
Factors influencing the development of stereotypic and redirected behaviours in young horses: findings of a four year prospective epidemiological study - WATERS - 2010 - Equine Veterinary Journal - Wiley Online Library


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

This addresses weaning stress: 

Abstract 
Weaning is a complex process resulting in a number of physiological challenges that may have prolonged effects on foal welfare. We predicted that intensified maternal behaviour during early development reduces the negative effects associated with the weaning process. In this study, we subjected foals (n=5) to 10min separations from the dam at 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12 weeks of age and measured changes in a number of tactile and non-tactile maternal interactions. During weaning at 6±0.5 months, we investigated the changes in salivary cortisol, heart rate and behavioural markers of stress in foals from the separation treatment group and compared them with control foals (n=5). Mares initiated contact with their foals 0.3±0.06 times during 30min and this increased to 1.77±0.06 times after separations (P<0.01). Mares also tended to watch their foals more often (P=0.088) increasing from 1.51±0.04 times per half hour to 3.10±0.04. Foals looked at their mothers on average 1.49±0.07 times per 30min before separation and 3.94±0.07 times after (F1,4=9.35; P=0.038). They also tended to initiate contact with them more often (F1,4=6.09; P=0.069): 1.15±0.08 times before and 4.11±0.08 times after separation. We found contradicting evidence when assessing the effect of short-term separations on weaning stress in foals. Morning salivary cortisol concentrations on the post-weaning day were higher (11.8±1.68nmol/l) for foals from the separation group (P=0.015). However, animals from the control group engaged in greater locomotion (P=0.048) indicating that they were more agitated. No effect of separations was found on heart rate during the weaning process. Heart rate increased on the weaning day (P<0.01) and remained elevated (P<0.01) for morning, noon and evening observations, but the highest mean heart rate was 86.57±1.05 heart beats per minute (BPM), immediately after weaning. All parameters we measured showed a significant day by time interaction characterizing the weaning process. Fillies walked more after weaning, especially during noon (13.81±1.21min) and afternoon (11.73±1.21min) observations (P<0.01). They also laid down less (P=0.032; 1.73±1.89min) than colts (9.79±2.35min) and on the post-weaning day, the morning cortisol concentrations were higher in fillies (22.24±1.56nmol/l; P<0.01). In the discussion, we argue based on the contradicting evidence that we cannot draw a definite conclusion regarding the effect of early-life separations on stress-coping strategies in foals but we propose changes for future research. Finally, we discuss the results pertaining to gender-related differences.

Elsevier


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Goldenhorse I think six months has its origins due to winter approaching and cattle raiser wean calves at around that age as the cow will be in her last 3 months of pregnancy with the new calf. That of course is a theory only.
kassierae there is nothing written in stone about caring for horses or breeding them. The way you wean if it works for you then it works.
I do think weaning at any age is less stressful if the foal is not isolated
Druydess that article was informative and thanks for posting it.
Good discussion. Shalom


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> Goldenhorse I think six months has its origins due to winter approaching and cattle raiser wean calves at around that age as the cow will be in her last 3 months of pregnancy with the new calf. That of course is a theory only.
> kassierae there is nothing written in stone about caring for horses or breeding them. The way you wean if it works for you then it works.
> I do think weaning at any age is less stressful if the foal is not isolated
> Druydess that article was informative and thanks for posting it.
> Good discussion. Shalom


I agree with the least amount of stress during weaning as well. Mine are weaned with short separations and brief "visitation" over a few days..always just separated by a paddock gate, and then no visitation "together", but able to touch and communicate over the same gate for a week. When I pull mom, I put a "friend" who baby knows in on the other side for company, and after a few days.. they are well adjusted and on their own. During this time, I spend hours with them daily and this aids in the transference of a bond to their human caretaker.
It has worked very well.

Glad you liked the articles.. it was good to find actual data.


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## tranquilo (Dec 17, 2007)

Druydess said:


> Tranquilo I understand your position as well and agree with it in theory. From the dates, it would seem you had shown a while ago. The last decade or so, the Arabian ring has become a game of highest bidders and politics. It has always been there, but it's much worse today. There's a lot of backlash going on right now that will hopefully bring it back closer to what it was. I would consider that a preferred environment to show in with good judges as you say.


The older mare won in 2006, her daughter won in 2011 and will be off to Nationals again in a few days to face older horses this time.  Your description probably could fit the halter ring though and I don't pay much attention to what goes on in that world...my mares both won their titles under saddle. I don't really blame people for not wanting to show especially with how expensive it is now (or for moving on to stuff like reining or racing where you can win actual money), but at the same time it's too bad because our shows could definitely use more numbers.

I haven't noticed a difference in behavior in foals that were weaned earlier vs later, but I would imagine it's more stressful for a younger foal. I have heard that their digestive systems aren't really meant to properly digest solid food until about 6 months.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

tranquilo said:


> The older mare won in 2006, her daughter won in 2011 and will be off to Nationals again in a few days to face older horses this time.  Your description probably could fit the halter ring though and I don't pay much attention to what goes on in that world...my mares both won their titles under saddle. I don't really blame people for not wanting to show especially with how expensive it is now (or for moving on to stuff like reining or racing where you can win actual money), but at the same time it's too bad because our shows could definitely use more numbers.
> 
> I haven't noticed a difference in behavior in foals that were weaned earlier vs later, but I would imagine it's more stressful for a younger foal. I have heard that their digestive systems aren't really meant to properly digest solid food until about 6 months.


Congrats on your wins and good luck with Nationals! 

I haven't really seen an emotional difference with Rowan- the QH I rescued when she was a foal. She has traumatically lost her Dam at only 3 weeks old, and was so neglected - 3 months later, she was near death. She had a body score of "1." She's 7 now and though never bred, is an affectionate, extremely social mare who loves humans. That may be the intense time we spent saving her, but it may be her nature as well. People may poo poo the idea, but I dare say this mare actually feels grateful for her life. I imagine her ability to be a good mother wouldn't be impaired in spite of her rocky beginnings.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Tranquilo good luck at Nationals.
Having a mother and daughter both win at Nationals is wonderful and quite an accomplishment. Plenty of time , planning and $ were spent but looks like they paid off.
I also agree the Arabian breed needs more people showing. One of my incentives for showing and promoting Cassius.

It seems weaning at an early age might not be as harmful as I imagined. I dread doing it everytime and a young foal would only make matters worse. I am a softy it seems. My biggest wish it that the mare would do it herself. Shalom


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

My Shetland mare self weaned both her fillies at 3 1/2-4 months. She was an excellent mother, but once she felt they were ready she kicked them off and wanted nothing to do with them. A young colt we had was cold turkey weaned at 3 1/2 months, mom was out on a trailer and taken to a new home. He's now coming four, and been lightly started and trail ridden. I could come up with examples all day for you, lol. I've seen probably over 25 youngsters go through our barn and like I said, have not noticed a difference at all."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> It seems weaning at an early age might not be as harmful as I imagined. I dread doing it everytime and a young foal would only make matters worse. I am a softy it seems. My biggest wish it that the mare would do it herself. Shalom


I'll join you on the softies couch, a young foal would make it worse for me as well.



kassierae said:


> I could come up with examples all day for you, lol. I've seen probably over 25 youngsters go through our barn and like I said, have not noticed a difference at all."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again people can come up with unquantified examples of things all day here is one for you

McCalls Horse World - Weaning Age

This raises the same questions as I have, how do you reliably test the 'emotional' impact on weanlings and their future development and mental maturity.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Golden horse that was an interesting article. some of the things noted about the filly and other orphaned or early weaned foals I have noticed in our cattle. Shalom


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I have never bred horses... But, I personally wouldn't breed a mare until she was at least five. Horses physically mature up until that point, so it confuses me that people would choose to do it earlier?


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