# opnion on driving bits



## littrella

I would love to hear what you use for a bit & why. My instructor is very picky about what equipment she uses & what brands. She wants me to use a Liverpool mullen mouth. I undestand what works well for her & her horse may not always work well for me & my donk. I"m currently reading "Carriage Driving, Updated Edition" by Heike Bean & Sarha Blanchard. They say a liverpool mullen mouth is a harsh bit & should only be used by a seasoned driver. So I'm trying to gather as much information as I can so I can do the best by my boy


----------



## Endiku

I started Sour with a half cheek single jointed snaffle, because I didn't know much about the bit types and it seemed like the common bit. She was fine in it, but when I needed to apply more than just a little bit of contact I could tell she didn't like the nutcracker action so I switched to a half cheek mullen mouth, and she goes great.

I also own a Butterfly Mullen Mouth but I've only really used it for schooling her, not for normal pleasure driving, and I only use it on the top ring to keep it as mild as possible. It offers me a little more control though for when she's in new situations, and gives her tounge relief which she seems to prefer to anything else.

When you buy a bit, look into Iowa Valley Horse Carriage's selection. I've been really impressed with my bits from them, and they're super helpful.


----------



## michaelvanessa

*driveing bits.*

hiya i use a liverpool straight bar my boy axcepts it well.


----------



## greentree

I have used most all of them, and at home I usually drive in a french link snaffle. If I show, they get too strong, and I use a butterfly or liverpool arched mullen. For a long time, I used a Myler driving bit, or a Myler kimberwicke. My horses' heads are not real still(it is my hands) and the Mylers had too much movement.

I have a beautiful bit that my gelding LOVES, made by Jacob Bowman at Bowman Leather in Ohio. He and his father made my leather harness, and his uncle made most of my synthetic harness. 

Nancy


----------



## smrobs

Granted, we don't show or anything, but my family has been driving teams for farming for generations. We've always just used loose-ring snaffles on everything. I was raised to believe that it's the _training_ that matters, not the bit. Heck, we had a team of mules that worked 100% off voice commands, even in strange/scary situations like parades and shows.

Of course, you must take into account the individual horse's preferences and needs, but I don't see the need to bit up beyond a snaffle type (1:1 pressure ratio).


----------



## Idrivetrotters

My OTTB who was with the Amish for years goes nicely in a snaffle half cheek driving bit while my OTTB trotter was a bad puller on the track and came to me with a left lip that has a scar and a left bar that has a dark spot (he was locked on that left line and rein when I first started riding) that made every bit in the barn uncomfortable for him. He now goes happily in a Pee Wee bit that we use for riding and driving. He has a wonderful singlefoot/rack that is smooth as silk and very ground covering (not speed racking just a nice saddle rack for trails) and trots all day under harness. He has stopped pulling and is finally comfortable/pain free.


----------



## greentree

smrobs said:


> Granted, we don't show or anything, but my family has been driving teams for farming for generations. We've always just used loose-ring snaffles on everything. I was raised to believe that it's the _training_ that matters, not the bit. Heck, we had a team of mules that worked 100% off voice commands, even in strange/scary situations like parades and shows.
> 
> Of course, you must take into account the individual horse's preferences and needs, but I don't see the need to bit up beyond a snaffle type (1:1 pressure ratio).


This is very true,. The bits are for me, more than the horse. Driving show horses on CONTACT and with the whip in hand causes my hands to turn to numb stumps. I can drive draft horses on a loose rein ALL day!!

Nancy


----------



## littrella

Idrivetrotters: a Pee Wee bit? I've never heard of one. Can you describe it?

Greentree & Smrobs: You can drive without contact???? I'm being taught that is a big no no! I'm very intregued! Is it just a matter of training?


----------



## Endiku

Ok, ok. I admit it. I really just like the elegance of my butterfly bit. LOL. Sour goes perfectly well in her half cheek, though she can get a tiny bit strong in new places with lots of people, but I just couldn't resist how nice the butterfly bit looked...and with the curb chain off and the reins on the first ring, it works like her snaffle anywho. hehe.


----------



## greentree

littrella said:


> Idrivetrotters: a Pee Wee bit? I've never heard of one. Can you describe it?
> 
> Greentree & Smrobs: You can drive without contact???? I'm being taught that is a big no no! I'm very intregued! Is it just a matter of training?


LOL, littrella. Yes, you can drive without contact, and in the "carriage driving" world, it IS not recommended. Saddlebreds, Arabians, Morgans, either. Draft show horses are driven with contact. Draft work horses, "western pleasure" driving horses, and Amish type road horses are all driven with loose reins. 

They are also commanded with (GASP) the reins slapped on the butt....

All of mine get to walk on loose rein to cool down after a traing session, though.

Nancy


----------



## Endiku

Not the best performance I've seen, but here is a bit of an example ^_^


----------



## littrella

OMG! I think my instructor would faint if I tried that! I like how relaxed the horses look but it would drive me nuts not being able to see over the horse.


----------



## smrobs

Yep, I was taught that the reins should be snug enough to feel the horse, but no real contact should be used (and if you ever need to "slap" the horse, you use the tail end of your lines, never the part that's between your hand and their mouth).

This is pretty typical for how our teams are driven









And, I'll look for a picture of our teams working back when we farmed with them. It may take a while as photobucket is being a butt and our electricity keeps flashing.


ETA: Haha!! Success!! These were 4 of our really good farming mules back in the early 90's.


----------



## greentree

When I showed at the Pinto World Show, the obstacle class was stock horses and pleasure type combined, and in the warm up, Tootsie walked, and they trotted, and we LAPPED them. 

Not my type, but then I don't understand how anyone can ride a western pleasure horse around an arena enough to get it trained to show.....apologies in advance to any WP people.

Nancy


----------



## Southern Grace

My mare is in training right now, and I've got her in a full-cheek snaffle, same bit we use for everything. I typically keep hoses in a snaffle until I see a need for something else.

Endiku - I didn't know there was any world of show driving that allowed slapping the haunches with the lines! GASP is right! And there's no breeching on those harnesses, I guess the cart weighs so little they don't need it, but golly gosh I've never seen it in a show ring. And correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a head check on that horse the man is driving? His nose is practically dragging the ground as it is, what could that head check offer?


----------



## Shoebox

I have a question to add. My horse has always been ridden in a half-cheek Eggbutt snaffle - A driving bit. (She was going to be taught to drive. I've since gotten her a French Link instead.)

What makes this bit more suitable for driving than any other bit? Than, say, a full cheek snaffle?


----------



## Endiku

Many lightweight showers don't use breeching with that type of cart. No reason to, I guess. I rarely ever see breeching on the miniatures that are being driven when I attend different classes.

Note though, that I don't condone that type of showing and I don't show at _all_ personally, I pleasure drive. I just gave that as an example of someone driving without contact. Actually though, in that video I never saw the lady slap her stallion (the chestnut being driven) with the reins. When she asked him to trot she did a bit of a jiggle with the rein and off he went. All of those drivers also had whips with them, they just weren't using them. Not sure why. 

I drive with minimal contact when I'm just around the farm with our more experienced horses...my mare is still fairly new to driving (has about 65 short drives and one parade on her, started March 2012) and young so I'd never try driving without contact with her, but with our 14 year old Shetland who practically drives himself, I have no problem with giving him a loose rein and just relying on my voice to control him. He's been driving for over 9 years and is used for therapy as well, so he's about as spook proof as they get. 

Shoebox- I'm not completely sure with some bits, but I know that a lot of people prefer half cheeks because you have to use a lot more rein direction with driving (in some cases anyways) than with riding, and halfcheeks won't slide through the horse's mouth. They also give another form of pressure, on the outside of the jaw, to help guide younger horses into turns.


----------



## greentree

Shoebox said:


> I have a question to add. My horse has always been ridden in a half-cheek Eggbutt snaffle - A driving bit. (She was going to be taught to drive. I've since gotten her a French Link instead.)
> 
> What makes this bit more suitable for driving than any other bit? Than, say, a full cheek snaffle?


The top part of a full cheek snaffle can get hung on the harness if the horse swings its head at a fly or something, so, as Endiku said, the half cheek is used to prevent lateral bit slide....

Nancy


----------



## greentree

Southern Grace said:


> My mare is in training right now, and I've got her in a full-cheek snaffle, same bit we use for everything. I typically keep hoses in a snaffle until I see a need for something else.
> 
> Endiku - I didn't know there was any world of show driving that allowed slapping the haunches with the lines! GASP is right! And there's no breeching on those harnesses, I guess the cart weighs so little they don't need it, but golly gosh I've never seen it in a show ring. And correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a head check on that horse the man is driving? His nose is practically dragging the ground as it is, what could that head check offer?


The fine harness does not have breeching, to "show off" the horse better. Most of those have a thimble on the end of the shaft to keep the shaft from sliding forward (which is why we adjust the breeching as we do- to keep the carriage from hitting the horse).

Again, apologies to anyone who does stock horse pleasure driving, but the overcheck hanging down 6 inches cracks me up, as do the carts tilted so far up that the drivers could fall over backwards.

Nancy


----------



## Endiku

Yes, I prefer to see _OVER_ my horse's butt, not right at it...


----------



## michaelvanessa

*seeing over the horses butt.*

i have enjoyed reading all your strings.
i must admit i have had that with quincy in my troting sulky lol and had to lean side ways to see were i was going lol.
but with nancys 2 wheeler and my exercise waggonett from that box seat its fine.
greentree i could not stop laughing about you laping people i did that on the road drive at waltham abby were i am i over took them in the out side lane i just ask and he knoches up the power so i asked him to pace he floats along at a good speed.
we left quite a few turnouts behind and some people gave us looks as if to kill.
i still laugh now i am at the moment rembering when we did that.
endiku many thanks for your video.
i cant for the life of me understand why the horses have there heads down in draft.
and like green tree said you would think some one would be droped off the back.
i know my sulky is a bit small for quincy but i did not sit at a bad angle like that.
well the real funny side is quincys not complyant with the clean air act.
thats when he farts lol with the sulky at that levle you turn a bit green.
the bits i use are liverpool bits for tricky and quincy.
and for tricky and tammy as a pair i have buxtons and also liverpool bits.
i also have a half moon wilson with twin rings as well.
quincy came with a jointed butterfly bit.
ill have to go to my house and get them and take pictures of them and show you.


----------



## Endiku

michaelvanessa said:


> well the real funny side is quincys not complyant with the clean air act.
> thats when he farts lol with the sulky at that levle you turn a bit green.


 
LOL. thanks for making me spit our my soda! :rofl:


----------



## littrella

right now I'm debating between the french link liverpool & the mullen mouth liverpool. I have a jointed o-ring & he hates it


----------



## Horselover03

I have always used a liverpool bit on the horse that I drive, but I will say that I have one mare that always puts her tongue over the bit when I use the mullen mouth liverpool, so I am looking into a liverpool single jointed bit. It is the oddest thing, I ride her in a full cheek snaffle and she does not put her tongue over, put in the liverpool right over lol... So odd... You can always try a new bit and if your finding it not the right match you can always change it up, or maybe your coach has one you could try before you buy one!


----------



## churumbeque

littrella said:


> I would love to hear what you use for a bit & why. My instructor is very picky about what equipment she uses & what brands. She wants me to use a Liverpool mullen mouth. I undestand what works well for her & her horse may not always work well for me & my donk. I"m currently reading "Carriage Driving, Updated Edition" by Heike Bean & Sarha Blanchard. They say a liverpool mullen mouth is a harsh bit & should only be used by a seasoned driver. So I'm trying to gather as much information as I can so I can do the best by my boy


 The mullen mouth is not harsh at all. The Liverpool can be very mild to harsh depending on where you put the reins. I use the same bit in the rough cheek setting which is the mildest. I always recommend a mullen mouth although a Liverpool is a little fancy for a donk for a correct turnout. It is more for a high stepping carriage horse.


----------



## churumbeque

Southern Grace said:


> My mare is in training right now, and I've got her in a full-cheek snaffle, same bit we use for everything. I typically keep hoses in a snaffle until I see a need for something else.
> 
> Endiku - I didn't know there was any world of show driving that allowed slapping the haunches with the lines! GASP is right! And there's no breeching on those harnesses, I guess the cart weighs so little they don't need it, but golly gosh I've never seen it in a show ring. And correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a head check on that horse the man is driving? His nose is practically dragging the ground as it is, what could that head check offer?


 On a fine harness and a Jerald cart no breeching is used.


----------



## GreySorrel

My team drives on a light touch to the lines, I mostly work them off of voice, with a slight touch to the lines if were doing something in the general public to reenforce what I asked them to do. Here is a photo of one of the wagon rides we provided at a friends farm day tour...


We at one time had buxton bits on the team harness but after getting the bottom of the bit stuck on a snap on my pole, not wanting them anyway as they are primarily used for the wheel horses, we switched over to military snaffle bits. I have light hands on my lines and don't need a heavy bit or one that has a lot of stopping power. 

The work harness has simple snaffles. I have plowed with them, driven and again, they are well trained so a light touch and a command, our team will stop. We work with them a lot and we use to do a lot of public events and educational talks so for us, it was very important that they were, and also for the general public. Here I am ground driving my mare Smoke in a snaffle, were pulling a log through an obstacle and yes, I do rely a lot on voice when I did this:


And yes, slapping your lines onto your horses back/rump is very frowned upon. I have done it a time or two but never made it a habit, rather voice or a touch with the driving whip is enough. I have seen people slap the lines often and to me it looks bad.


----------



## Southern Grace

The team I drove this past year had one horse in a liverpool and one in a butterfly. We taped the clips to the yoke closed so they couldn't catch. I've heard of the shanks catching the yoke, and it never ends well


----------



## jimmy

smrobs said:


> Granted, we don't show or anything, but my family has been driving teams for farming for generations. We've always just used loose-ring snaffles on everything. I was raised to believe that it's the _training_ that matters, not the bit. Heck, we had a team of mules that worked 100% off voice commands, even in strange/scary situations like parades and shows.
> 
> Of course, you must take into account the individual horse's preferences and needs, but I don't see the need to bit up beyond a snaffle type (1:1 pressure ratio).


I,m the same way,if I buy another set of harnessI leave in what ever bit is already there


----------

