# Electric fence question



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

yes, dont skimp. A cheap crappy charger is $100, a decent one isnt much more. 
Look at the joules rating. More is always better. The lower power chargers will ground out as soon as a wet weed touches them. You are correct. Cheapest and best is AC one you can plug in. IS there anywhere the fence comes close to a AC power source ? The DC ones generally arnt as powerful and you will have grounding problems unless you keep the fence line perfectly clean. The SOlar ones a DC (meaning they use a battery) with a solar charger on top. Pretty pricey for what you get. You pay alot of money for a low power charger because you are buying expensive batteries and a solar charger. If You get a DC unit you will be spending more money in the long run because you will get fed up and go to AC as soon as you get power run. If you go to Horse .com and look at fence charges u wiil see the joules rating and also the weeds, you'll see things like "{for use in light weeds" of "use in damp brush" thats what you want. They will call em a 50 mile charger. Yeh sounds like alot. but it isnt. You dont want to go through the hassle of having a couple damp weeds grounding out your charger.


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## DEPorter88 (Nov 10, 2011)

Thank-you for the info. Nothing is ever easy, is it? I will look, but I don't think I will be close to an AC source until I run an underground next spring. Are any brands better of worse? Do I need to worry about snow this winter? I am in PA, so I will definitely need to account for it.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Look at the Gallagher chargers. Many consider them to be very high quality. I happen to be one of them.

Ground, ground, ground, ground, ground.

Drive at least 5 6 foot ground rods spaced 10 feet apart and connect them together.

The unit is no better than the grounding system.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

yeh snow sticking to the wires then going to the ground might ground things, but then I have no idea, water only conduct if it has salt traces. SOem snow belt people may bave to chime in.

With a three acre field and no AC nearby I would use three strands of high tension wire and not even worry about the electric you can add a DC charger to the top strand if you like and let it run best you can. The cable will keep the horses in whether it is electrified or not. One or two zaps early on will suffice for most horses.

High tension cable is dirt cheap, strong safe, a tree can fall on it it just stretches, You cut the tree and it springs back up. You just have to really really really brace the corners. At least 2 foot deep posts in concrete, then angled braces also in concrete. Let posts set up a couple days then you run the cable post to post, with T posts every 20 feet just wacked in the ground. On each run you have this double ended ratchet gadget with a big spring. That ratchets the cable tight like a comealong. 
Putting that up will probably be cheaper than the electric cord and it lasts forever. The wire is solid core wire, Picture Barbwire with no barbs.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Joe -- water does not need to have salt in it to conduct.

Issues with electric fences in snow is that the ground is not good enough. A ground wire strung along the lower half of the fence line will look after that.

AC vs. DC -- I use a DC charger and have never had a issue with not enough charge. I have about 3 acres fenced in and the wire is all over the place. ie. not square fields. Lots of underbrush, etc. No problems unless a bear runs through the fence


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## highlonesome (Nov 3, 2011)

I've used 110ac,solar and even ran horse fence of of a 12v car battery before(needing recharged periodically).It's not so bad, but as someone put it earlier,if any of them ground out,you have no juice.Most horses with any sense at all will stay behind it.Course most horses with any sense will stay behind kite string if they know it's there.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

NorthernMama said:


> Joe -- water does not need to have salt in it to conduct.
> 
> Issues with electric fences in snow is that the ground is not good enough. A ground wire strung along the lower half of the fence line will look after that.
> 
> AC vs. DC -- I use a DC charger and have never had a issue with not enough charge. I have about 3 acres fenced in and the wire is all over the place. ie. not square fields. Lots of underbrush, etc. No problems unless a bear runs through the fence



Might want to recheck your science books Water is not a conductor. Pure water has an extremely high resistance. It is the minerals and salts that ionize in a water solution that cause it to conduct. This is 3rd grade science project stuff here, Infact it was my 3rd grade science project. A battery, some wire a bowl of water and a flashlight bulb, put the wire in the bowl of distilled water, No light. Add some salt light comes on. 
Basic electricity here.
I have no idea how much mineral content is in snow though. 

"A" DC charger... How many joules ? how much wire? what type of terrain Have you ever actually tested the current in the wire with all this brush you mentioned ? DC chargers that use a deep cycle car battery sized battery can do the job but do you really wanna be hauling 70lb batteries back and forth to recharge them ?

High tension cable will get your job done and deer and bears cant break it.


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## highlonesome (Nov 3, 2011)

"Pure" well water feeding a stock tank will conduct electricity.The heating element in some of our tanks will go bad,crack or rot and cattle will not drink from it til fixed because of the slight zapping they got.Pure is to say nothing has been added by us anyway.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Once the horses hit it once or twice they'll stay off of it for a few weeks until they forget.

I've got woven wire, with electric along the top and about 15 inches up from the bottom to keep the horses, and kids, off the fence.

I can run it a couple of weeks and then turn it off for a couple of weeks.

The smart horses learn not to touch it.

It also works to make dumb kids, smart. They only touch it once.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

well water isnt pure, lots of minerals and salts,,,, I only brought it up because of the snow, which I assume is a distilled water and maybe mineral free. As I have never heard of people having an issue with snow grounding out a fence.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Ultra pure water that has had everything removed will have 18Mohms resistance and will not conduct electricity. Pretty much anything short of that will have ions in it and conduct electricity. The only place you will find ultra pure water is in a manufacturing setting where industrial water has been turned into pure water, not found in nature. So yes, snow will ground out your electric fence.

I've used battery powered fence chargers before. They are a pain because you do have to more vigilant about brush and keep the darn thing charged up. They will work fine for horses, the secret is to make sure it will knock you on your *** when you first put the horses in. One good zap and they'll stay away from it.

Cows is where battery powered chargers lack a lot. They are not as sensitive to electricity as a horse and will keep testing the fence (lay their whiskers on it to feel for a tingle). The second your charge goes low, they walk through it.

I also agree that battery chargers cost you more in the end. The second power is turned on at the barn is the second you turn on your brand spanking new AC powered fence charger as you will be hardily sick of your battery powered on by then. Only use batteries when you have no other choice. 

FYI, I've run a mile of electric fence along a road just to get to a plug in.


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## kntry (Nov 11, 2011)

We're leaving in a few minutes to buy an electric fence. We have a Draft, Draft/Thoroughbred cross and Quarter Horse. 

We have metal and wood fence posts with non-climb and "V" wire. 

What would be the best electric fence? We're also considering using just electric fence to expand the pasture. Would this contain them for outings during the day?


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Yes, a properly done electric fence will have no problems keeping horses in once they've been introduced to it except in rare cases. Horses are really sensitive to electricity and do not like being shocked so it's all you really need for them. I've seen horses avoid where a fence line used to be up to 6 mos after the fence line was moved. The rare case is a horse my dad had that sometimes would decide she's going through that **** fence. She would back off to mid pasture then run full tilt at the fence. I swear she closed her eyes and gritted her teeth just before impact. Once through she would drop her head and start eating. None of the other horses would ever follow her through.

As someone already mentioned, get a fence charger that has been rated for at least 25 miles, 50 is better. Anything less doesn't have enough to keep going through brush/grass leaning against the fence. 

Personally I don't like ribbon or nylon braided fencing. After a few years they become sun rotted and break easily in the wind. Also they just can't carry the juice due to the tiny size of wiring in them which can cause issues. I get solid wire fencing and have never had a problem with it.

Hint: Whatever wiring you decide on buy a roll or two of regular trail marking ribbon. Tie ribbon "flags" to your fencing as you go. this makes it very easy for horses to see until they learn where the fence line is. After the first couple days it is no longer needed until you move the fence to a new location.


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## kntry (Nov 11, 2011)

Thank you. That's the information I needed.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Forgot to add, you want to run two strands as a minimum, three strands with taller posts. Run one 6" off the ground and the second ~4ft from the ground. With taller posts do 6" from top and bottome and one in the middle.

Without the ground string they'll start nibbling under the fence. When they do hit the top wire they'll be just as likely to jump forwards as backwards when the top of their neck gets hit. If they go forward, bye bye fence. 

With taller posts you have a higher string to keep them from trying to reach over the fence. 

Also, with solid fencing (no climb/wood) you should still put a top and bottom strand of hotwire. This will keep them from pushing into the fence for tidbits on the other side. Without protection of a hotwire they can completely destroy solid fencing in only a few years by constantly pushing into it.


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## kntry (Nov 11, 2011)

Thank you.

We bought rope wire and a "30 mile" charger. We have about 1300' to put up and the sales person also suggested 2 lines. We'll be running 1 line about 2' off the ground and the other 4'. We're going a little higher off the ground because of the 2 Drafts.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

You might want to pick up one of the neon fence testers. My unit pegs it at over 5000 volts. I can assure you if it's installed properly, you won't want to test it by touching it.

Next door neighbor kid touched it....knocked him to the ground.....so I'm standing over him saying "boy, you all right"? Took about 30 seconds or so before his chickens started clucking again.

He'll never do that again and told all the other neighbor kids what happened. 

Had another dumb one try it.....after being told......I guess he thought we both were lying to him.....almost the same results.

They use the darn gate now.


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## kntry (Nov 11, 2011)

We did buy a tester. I'm not inclined to stick my tongue to it. LOL

I feel badly doing it to the horses but the Draft likes to lean against the fence and push it over!


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Don't feel bad, the alternative is a rather large animal running loose and potentially causing all sorts of havoc.


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## kntry (Nov 11, 2011)

That's what I'm afraid of. We're bringing them home today. If they jump the fence tonight, we live in the woods and I'm afraid we won't find them.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Sorry I'm arriving late to this thread.

I have the solar charger rated for 25 miles and have been pretty happy with it, but here's some things to consider. In a long stretch of cloudy weather, the charger goes dead. And we had it go dead once during a drought, because the ground was so dry there was no conductivity. We went out and poured a five gallon bucket of water on the ground wire each night and that fixed the problem. I have two paddocks one 3 1/2 acres and one 1 1/2 acres, with two strands of electric.

HOWEVER, and this is a big however - my electric is secondary fencing, designed to keep the horses off the fence. The electric is not what keeps the horses in, it just keeps them off the primary fence. I know lots of people use just electric and t-posts and they keep their horses safe and secure, but I wouldn't do it, particulary if you're relying on the solar charger. There's just too much that can go wrong - branch or tree on the fence, posts getting pushed over, charger failing, smart horse that knows how to outsmart the wire. If you're fencing off an auxillary area for supplemental grazing, that's fine, or dividing or cross fencing that's fine but I would not trust two strands of electric to keep my horses in 24/7 year round, particulary not on t-posts or landscape timbers. 

Just my .02.


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## Rawhide (Nov 11, 2011)

Much great advise given here IMHO.
I'am partial to Parmak,and HorsePower chargers.
I don't have a horse in their race but have found good competative prices dealing with :Electric Fence Supplies for Fine Electric Fencing.
Of course every region differs but I stay away from solo battery powered chargers and use ac and solar units.

Boone


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## kntry (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks for the advice.

We went with a 1 joule, 30 mile charger. I didn't want solar at all.

We were only going to use the wire to add an extra grazing area that could be used during the day while DH is home. I would never trust just electric wire to keep them in.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Joe4d said:


> Might want to recheck your science books Water is not a conductor. Pure water has an extremely high resistance. It is the minerals and salts that ionize in a water solution that cause it to conduct.


Yup, agreed. Just didn't get how you got that water had to have salt specifically in it. 



> I have no idea how much mineral content is in snow though.


 Apparently not very much, since most electric fences don't get sufficient open current from ground when there is snow. Mind you -- the ground itself is very dry in the winter, which is another issue. The less moisture in the ground, the less ground you get. [/quote]



> "A" DC charger... How many joules ? how much wire? what type of terrain Have you ever actually tested the current in the wire with all this brush you mentioned ? DC chargers that use a deep cycle car battery sized battery can do the job but do you really wanna be hauling 70lb batteries back and forth to recharge them ?


I'd have to go check how many joules. It was a $150 charger from Princess Auto -- "the better one" LOL. Terrain is clay / rock / swamp / gravel with trees, underbrush, clear areas. Yes I have tested the current. It is equal charge for the full length. And, yes, I do use either a car battery, large marine battery or even a large truck battery. As for hauling it around -- during the summer, I change out the battery only once. No big deal. During the winter, I don't know how often I have to recharge. Can't remember, but it's not a big deal to put the battery on a sled and drag it up to the shop. Hopefully soon I will have my power back and then I run a trickle charger on the the battery when needed.



> High tension cable will get your job done and deer and bears cant break it.


Agree again, but in some situations that is just too much work or impossible. Here it is just about impossible to get a post in the ground that will stay in position through the freeze-thaw cycles because of the clay. I've never seen ground heave like this stuff. The first spring we were here I was shocked. Literally 5 foot heaves! It's wild.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The fencing specialist here recommends a heavy guage wire for the main containment fencing, Using two hots with a neutral or ground in between. The rope and ribbon fencing are best used for dividing pastures inside the perimeter fencing. Wind is very hard on these materials and friction where it runs back and forth across the insulators can soon result in a break. Not the case with the wire. Poor grounding is the cause of most fence problems. An old vehicle radiator buried is an excellent ground, or two ground rods placed at least three feet apart. Mine enjoy an extra area enclosed with only a single strand but only when there's no snow (fence is useless then) and only during the day. When they come in for a drink around 5 the gate is closed and they're in behind better fencing for the night.


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## roflexsUS (Nov 13, 2011)

Hello there. I would use solar charger. I also would like to steer you away from the rope wire, and suggest using the tensil wire that only cost 100.00 for 4000 feet and can be broke if horse runs threw this, not like the rope wire that acts like a saw blade if get caught on it. Here this is what we use and have 32 horses here from young to old seams to work well


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## kntry (Nov 11, 2011)

Saddlebag, we don't have much wind here in South Louisiana. Hopefully, this won't be an issue.

RoflexUS, we bought the system yesterday and put up the top run of wire. We were instructed to use the rope. We have a non-climb wire across the front and "V" horse wire across the back so it isn't just an electric fence. I hope this works!


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