# Do you have to use concrete for run in sheds?



## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

I've never used those, but I would expect the weak point will be where you fasten the post to the spike. With the torque strong wind will cause on that joint, I think you'll be much better off setting them in concrete so you have 2+ feet of the post in the ground.
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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

I wouldn't around here. Concrete for sure.
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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Concrete.

We have used those inside the barn. I would not trust those used for an outside structure.
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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

can you set the posts without concrete?


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Yes, but concrete is so cheap and easy I wouldn't do it without. Digging the holes is the hard part.
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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> can you set the posts without concrete?


What is your concern about using concrete?
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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

we just don't have alot of time and if it's not really necesary then why not leave it?


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

For a shed, you can set the posts in concrete one day and build the next.
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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

The shed we're building is only 12x10ft i don't see why you need concrete for a shed that small...


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> The shed we're building is only 12x10ft i don't see why you need concrete for a shed that small...



If you're that dead set against it why ask our opinions at all? It seems that most people would say yes, use concrete, a tiny bit more work now will mean less repairs later. It's easier to just do it when you're building - it's so easy and fast I don't see any reason not to for all the extra support it adds.


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## RitzieAnn (Dec 22, 2010)

Ever think to build it on skids? We have the Tall Mini Barn for hay, and the 10x20 horse shelter from this website

Miller Barns ~ Home

We are actually going to have him build our goat barn on a smaller scale of the horse barn. We love his work  And it's cheaper than we could do it ourselves


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> We are building a run in shed for my horse and my dad wants to use these things() to set the posts in, instead of setting them into the ground with concrete. Would that work? those spikes are about 3ft long.


 I think these are for portable sheds to keep them from blowing away. Totally different type of she then one set in concrete.


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## Nickers2002 (Nov 25, 2009)

For the little bit of extra time it takes I would either use concrete, or set your posts at least 5 feet in the ground. I think concrete would be easier  After having my horses home and the amount of scratching, rolling (posts get kicked occasionally), etc. that goes on in the run in shed - they would eventually take it down if the posts weren't set in concrete lol.

Not to mention the occasionally hurricanes and strong winds we get would weaken it over time as well. During Sandy a tree fell on a part of the barn and only the edge of the roof was damaged. The posts and structure survived.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Nickers2002 said:


> For the little bit of extra time it takes I would either use concrete, or set your posts at least 5 feet in the ground. I think concrete would be easier  After having my horses home and the amount of scratching, rolling (posts get kicked occasionally), etc. that goes on in the run in shed - they would eventually take it down if the posts weren't set in concrete lol.
> 
> Not to mention the occasionally hurricanes and strong winds we get would weaken it over time as well. During Sandy a tree fell on a part of the barn and only the edge of the roof was damaged. The posts and structure survived.


What if we set the spikes into concrete? We are using 4x4s.

I'm not dead set against concrete.


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

I really like the protability of a shed on skids, myself.
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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> What if we set the spikes into concrete? We are using 4x4s.
> 
> I'm not dead set against concrete.


Setting spikes into concrete will give you a tiny bit more stability than just using the spikes, but if you're willing to sink spikes into concrete why not do the whole post? Using those spikes connected to a post is only going to be as strong as its weakest point, which is where it'd be connected to the post. - they add a weak link in there. The concrete wouldn't help much there. One long, thick post set into concrete would be so much more stable.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Shoebox said:


> Setting spikes into concrete will give you a tiny bit more stability than just using the spikes, but if you're willing to sink spikes into concrete why not do the whole post? Using those spikes connected to a post is only going to be as strong as its weakest point, which is where it'd be connected to the post. - they add a weak link in there. The concrete wouldn't help much there. One long, thick post set into concrete would be so much more stable.


 How far should you set a 4x4 post into concrete?


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> How far should you set a 4x4 post into concrete?


For the size you're looking at 2 feet should be fine.
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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> For the size you're looking at 2 feet should be fine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does it have to go down farther than the frost line? Here it is around 6 feet. it would be impossible to find posts that long.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Bump???


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## Nickers2002 (Nov 25, 2009)

2-3 feet should be ok if set into concrete. I know corner posts for fences should be 3 feet (any fence post should be...but that's another discussion). Save your money on the spikes, sink the posts themselves into concrete and if you are in a place that gets a lot of snow/rain - maybe use that money to put gutters across the front of the run in so that there isn't a mud pit. That's what I'm going to do before the snow hits this year because the rain just trashed the areas in front of mine.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Nickers2002 said:


> 2-3 feet should be ok if set into concrete. I know corner posts for fences should be 3 feet (any fence post should be...but that's another discussion). Save your money on the spikes, sink the posts themselves into concrete and if you are in a place that gets a lot of snow/rain - maybe use that money to put gutters across the front of the run in so that there isn't a mud pit. That's what I'm going to do before the snow hits this year because the rain just trashed the areas in front of mine.


Are you also in Canada?


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

Here are my questions:

how long is the spike into the ground? 
how far up the post does it go?
What is the spike designed for?

If the spike is going 3' down and 1' up the post with a few places for lag screws it would probably work fine since it isn't a huge shelter


Personally I would just go on skids then the issue is solved, it can be moved if needed, ect...


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> Does it have to go down farther than the frost line? Here it is around 6 feet. it would be impossible to find posts that long.


How much frost heave you get depends a lot on the type of soil you have. If you have soil that drains well, you'll have less heave, and for a horse shelter, I wouldn't worry about a the potential for a couple inches of lift. If you have clay soil where the water sits and freezes, you'll have a bigger problem and using the spikes would certainly reduce the heave.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Our soil drains pretty well. When we get rain, there may be some puddles but they are usually gone by the next day. We have black farming soil with a little clay.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

My dad decided to set the spikes about 3 ft into concrete. The part going up the post is about 4-6 in(I think). I think we might be able to put some screws in. The barn my horse was in before is just built ON a concrete slab with big screws holding the building on. And THAT is a BIG structure.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

If you have time before sinking those posts...consider tarring the part you are sinking and about 6"-8" above ground... it will give them more time before rot or insects intrude. Even with the concrete... it is porous and can stay damp although a solid strong material...
Not all posts are PT the same with the same density of the wood treated...found that out the hard way.

Enjoy your new run-in.
:wink:


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

I have just one problem, The run in entrance is about 8 ft from the fence, Facing it. Would that be a problem? I may get another horse in the future...


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> I have just one problem, The run in entrance is about 8 ft from the fence, Facing it. Would that be a problem? I may get another horse in the future...


It would be best to give moe room. 8 feet is not much for horses to move around/fuss. We have about 30 feet from the shelter to our pen and ring.
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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> It would be best to give moe room. 8 feet is not much for horses to move around/fuss. We have about 30 feet from the shelter to our pen and ring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That would probably change with time. would 12-15 ft be Ok for two horses?


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> That would probably change with time. would 12-15 ft be Ok for two horses?


I think that would be fine for two horses. Your main concern with any building for horses is that one horse doesn't get trapped by another.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> I think that would be fine for two horses. Your main concern with any building for horses is that one horse doesn't get trapped by another.


Would that be possible with only two horses that like each other?


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> Would that be possible with only two horses that like each other?


Even best buddies fuss with each other at times.


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> Even best buddies fuss with each other at times.


VERY true. You want both to be able to get out if one has a go at the other. The LAST think you want is for them to get into a fight and one gets pinned by the other one with no means to get away.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Shoebox said:


> VERY true. You want both to be able to get out if one has a go at the other. The LAST think you want is for them to get into a fight and one gets pinned by the other one with no means to get away.


And it's not pretty when it happens. Even when the trapped horse can escape relatively unharmed, it often winds up getting scraped/cut up by every rough spot on the walls/posts/etc during the escape. More room is always better. Our lead and boss mares take whatever spots they want, typically all the way in the shelter, and the others take whatever is left, but they never pick a spot where they could get trapped...and all our horses get along fine.
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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> And it's not pretty when it happens. Even when the trapped horse can escape relatively unharmed, it often winds up getting scraped/cut up by every rough spot on the walls/posts/etc during the escape. More room is always better. Our lead and boss mares take whatever spots they want, typically all the way in the shelter, and the others take whatever is left, but they never pick a spot where they could get trapped...and all our horses get along fine.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have experience on both sides of this. My mare IS the lead mare. Hands down, in every herd she's placed with. The exception was when we moved her the first time. It shot her confidence and she dropped to lowest of the pecking order. The BO went out one day and saw her, a monster 17 hand draft cross, pinned against the corner of the shelter and getting the CRAP kicked out of her with both hind hooves of one of the other horses.

When she moved again (BO rented a new barn) this flipped. She stepped up to the plate and she now rules with an iron hoof no matter where we move her (and she moves a lot with me). If another horse is in the shelter and SHE wants it, they leave when they see her coming.

If they didn't have a way out, I can see it getting nasty.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

One ten foot long side is completely open. I read that for two horses a 12x12 ft shelter would work. two feet isn't such a big defference...


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

This website says a 12X18 ft shelter is usually adequate for three horses..
Choosing Sizes | Run In Sheds | Horse Barns | Horizon Structures


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> One ten foot long side is completely open. I read that for two horses a 12x12 ft shelter would work. two feet isn't such a big defference...


With a completely open side, you'll be fine. Ours is 10x30 for 5 horses and there are no problems.
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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> With a completely open side, you'll be fine. Ours is 10x30 for 5 horses and there are no problems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Great! If I get another horse, it would probably be a mare. mares and geldings get along well, right?


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Depends on the horse. I had a mare and gelding (still have the gelding, mare passed away last year) and they were fine together. Brought in a new little mare and after a week she bit and kicked the tar out of the gelding. This all happened in the shelter. 

Now they have separate paddocks and shelters. Beats a vet bill, not to mention the weightloss on poor Walka.


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> Great! If I get another horse, it would probably be a mare. mares and geldings get along well, right?


Totally depends on the horses. You can't predict that any more than you can predict if you and a complete stranger of any gender will get along.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> Great! If I get another horse, it would probably be a mare. mares and geldings get along well, right?


Most horses usually get along, especially if you have only 2, but follow the usual routine of separating them by a good fence for a week to let them get acquainted. In my experience you have to be pretty unlucky to wind up with 2 that can't work it out and get along.
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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Build it with a second entrance/exit. Three sided with an opening in one of the short sides.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Saying geldings and mares get along is like saying men and women get along: some do, and some don't. 

Has construction started yet?


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

PaintHorseMares said:


> Most horses usually get along, especially if you have only 2, but follow the usual routine of separating them by a good fence for a week to let them get acquainted. In my experience you have to be pretty unlucky to wind up with 2 that can't work it out and get along.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This made me laugh, as I do believe I did end up with two "special" need horses. Walka, who will never stand up for himself and just wants to be a good gelding , and Misty who has been isolated from other horses her entire life (she's now 12) and takes things way too far when with another horse.

But, I am hoping in time to allow these two horses to at least graze together in one of the pastures. They have been together in a large round pen , grass covered area since the attack for a few hours at a time grazing. 

I could never trust them together where she could trap Walka again and injure him as she has already done. And since he never did stand up for himself, it is the general consensus around here that he never will.


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## horsecrazygirl13 (Jul 16, 2012)

Yeah my dad drilled holes in the ground and filled them with concrete and set the spikes in them. We have 8 ft long 4x4s(that's all we could transport) that's why my dad was set on using the spikes. I will ask him if we can screw the 4x4s into the spikes. Think it'll be OK?


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horsecrazygirl13 said:


> Yeah my dad drilled holes in the ground and filled them with concrete and set the spikes in them. We have 8 ft long 4x4s(that's all we could transport) that's why my dad was set on using the spikes. I will ask him if we can screw the 4x4s into the spikes. Think it'll be OK?


Yes
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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

If my 2 cents isn't too late:
Manitoba? Frost is a definite concern. Things will not stay straight unless you embed below the frost line. 

If you are not willing/able to go below the frost line, then don't go into the ground at all. The difficulty with skids is that without a floor and four full walls, they have little cross support so some planning is in order. 

Personally, I'd sink the sauna tubes and pour concrete. The larger structure that is slab on grade probably had some serious excavation done before the slab was laid, including proper drainage/sloping and clear gravel underneath.


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