# Critique this possible buy?



## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

Hes a 4 year old paint gelding named Cowboy. Hes not registered and VERY green. He has great ground manners, tied, loads trims ect. He has had the saddle and bridle on, but has not been backed yet. I especially love his color. I did notice he is a bit pig eyed, but that doesnt matter to me, hes not going to be a show horse or anything, just a nice english/ western mount. Hes $1500, but Im aloud to do payments, and bring him home when he's 3/4 paid off (which is nice).

What do you guys think?


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## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

For got one


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

His color is very stunning but other than that, I really don't see anything about him that I like. He seems very narrow for a 4 year old and his shoulder is very steep. He will probably not ride very smooth. He looks like he may be cow-hocked and knock-kneed. His tail set is high and I don't like his eyes. Also, he either has a ridiculous grass belly or he is very wormy. Not worth 1500 in this market, IMHO. Especially for an unregistered 4 yo that has not been backed yet.


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## Audra0729 (Feb 25, 2009)

He reminds me of my 2 year old
his belly is a little big but he looks like he's on a pretty grassy field which could be why, or they just feed him too much, I wouldn't worry about his belly, either way it's an easy fix with either worming or cutting back on feed and doing some exercise regularly. his knees do look a little off to me, I'm no expert tho, so I can't pin point it.
I do agree about his price, it's steep for the horse market these days, I got my TB for $800 and he was broke to ride (obviously) and had excellent ground manners as well, and that was 4-5 years ago when the market was good. 
anyway, I think you should keep looking, you can find a much better horse for $1500, especially in this market. don't settle on the first horse you like. I went and tested at least 10-15 horses before I decided on Magic.

Smrobs, what does the whole "tail set high" thing mean, is it just a conformation thing or do you mean carrying it high?
also, call me a noob but please explain "cow-hocked and knock-kneed"


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

smrobs said:


> His color is very stunning but other than that, I really don't see anything about him that I like. He seems very narrow for a 4 year old and his shoulder is very steep. He will probably not ride very smooth. He looks like he may be cow-hocked and knock-kneed. His tail set is high and I don't like his eyes. Also, he either has a ridiculous grass belly or he is very wormy. Not worth 1500 in this market, IMHO. Especially for an unregistered 4 yo that has not been backed yet.


Yep. Yep. Yep. 

smrobs said it perfectly. I'd pass.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

perfect post, smrobs. I totally agree. His color is absolutely breathtaking but other than that, I'd take a big 'ol pass!


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## ShannonSevenfold (Oct 11, 2008)

He's gorgeous! =)

But I agree with what's already been said. Steep shoulder. Crazy withers. Epic grass belly. If you reeeally like him, you could try to negotiate them down on the price. But he is not worth how much they are asking (at least for the current market).

Personally, I'd also pass.


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## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

I tried negotiating the price, but they said if they didnt get what they were asking for him, they'd keep them. BUT, I trust your guy's judgement.

Im now on the look again haha


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## Padrona (Apr 13, 2009)

4 year olds are often gangly and misproportioned. I don't consider a horse really mature and finished growing until late 5 to early 6. Some even take longer. I used to own a mare who grew a full 2 inches between her 5 and 6 year old year! And she was a QH.

If you're just looking for a pleasure mount and partner to have fun with, then personality and rideability should be the #1 priority. You don't want any conformational flaws that will make it likely the horse will break down or give you medical bills, but a little conformation "wonkiness" I wouldn't worry a whole lot about.

Yeah he might be a little over at the knee or short necked, but I don't think he looks that bad. He's a little fat and not in good shape, obviously. A horses look changes significantly with steady work.

If I were looking for a pleasure mount that would just do trail riding, fun arena work, and basically just be my leisure riding partner and bud for the next 20 years, I'd look at these things in this order:

1. Personality (temperament, trainability, rideability)
2. Body structure (good solid bone, good proportion)
3. Hooves (must be strong and solid, adequate size, etc.)
4. Color/Breed
5. What training they've had

You can condition and train and fix just about anything if the temperament is good, and the basic body structure is sound and solid and correct.

When you get down to nuances of conformation - a little over at the knee, a little cow hocked, neck a little short, back a little long, and so forth, you have to take into consideration the age of the horse and if these things will affect the horse for the job you want to do.

Practical Horseman did an article called "Conformation that WORKS" and make a very good point that what the text books call "perfect conformation" isn't always the best conformation for THAT particular horse and the job he does. For instance, somewhat cow hocked is an advantage on working drafts or horses getting down on cattle, needing to be able to do rollbacks and have a high degree of maneuverability.

Basically the article made the case that for BREEDING stock, yes absolutely, you want conformation as text book perfect as possible. But our average light, fun riding horses can tolerate a huge range of discrepancy in their conforamtion and type and still remain sound, usable, and happy for decades. :lol:


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## Padrona (Apr 13, 2009)

Tried to edit my post but got an error message.

Anyway, I was going to add that I *would* worry about things like long/weak pasterns, long/weak back, roached back, lordosis, very low tied in neck, or other serious conformation faults that are likely to cause changes to the boney column over the years.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Audra0729 said:


> Smrobs, what does the whole "tail set high" thing mean, is it just a conformation thing or do you mean carrying it high?
> also, call me a noob but please explain "cow-hocked and knock-kneed"


A high tail set (when I said it) is a conformation thing. The location that his tail comes out of his butt is high. I prefer to see a horse with his tail come out lower and it is preferred lower in the western world. Generally, a lower tail set means that the horse will really be able to collect his hind end and get up under himself. Reining horses are where it is seen at it's lowest. Some people prefer the really high tail set though. This is not my horse but it is the best pic I could find to point out the difference on. Compare this horse's tail set









To the one in the OP. The black's is much lower and has the conformation preferred in the western world (meaning stock QH, Paint, and appy).

As for the knock-kneed and cow hocked. 

A well conformed horse's legs should come straight out of their body and go straight to the hoof. Here is a drawing of how a horses legs should look.










Here is a Knock-kneed picture 









And here is a cow-hocked picture









This site has some really good information regarding conformation and the long term effects of conformational faults.
FAQ Conformation Index


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## Audra0729 (Feb 25, 2009)

ahhh got it now. thanks for the clarification. now, rereading your post, it makes more sense to me. =]


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## Aliboo (Jun 20, 2008)

He's gorgeous but Im wary of green, untrained horses.
but that's just me. You need to consider IF you can give all the time, training and consistency to finish him appropriately


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## NoFear526 (Sep 4, 2008)

Excellent post by Padrona. I completely agree.
Every horse is going to have conformation flaws, regardless. Some more serious, some less. You just need to decide how they will effect what YOU want to do with them and if it will be a serious worry. 

I do see the faults everybody has posted regarding, but honestly I don't see any of them being too hazardous to this guy for what you are planning to do. As far as a show horse, I wouldn't advise it. But for what your doing, I think he'd do just fine.

As for price, that price is a little too steep for an unregistered young horse who hasn't been backed. If they'll go down on the price and work with you, then go for it. If not, pass. There are plenty of nice horses out there for cheap right now.

Good luck on your hunt!


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## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

Yeah, they wont reduce the price,so I am looking again. I have already found another gelding. Hes a TW x QH. Quite a cutie acctually. Hes $500, but they may consider free adoption.

Hes a bay, with a cute separated blaze two hind high socks. Hes 15hh and 7 years old. He has been sat on has some ground work, but not really ridden. He has nice ground manners aswell. Im going to ask if they can send some better comformation shots aswell. So I will post the picture that I have. If I get him, Im going to call him Tank.

What do you think of him?


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## lovemyponies (Jul 26, 2008)

he is cute, hard to tell from that shot, for some reason his front hoof looks funny to me like its leaning really far back, probaby just angle of photo


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## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

Heres another photo, still not the best. Just seeing if his owner could send more.
PS, by the sounds of it, he is mine


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

From what I can tell from the pix, his conformation looks sound and he has a very cute face. IMHO, he is a much better choice than the other. I wish you luck and hope you are able to bring him home.


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## lovemyponies (Jul 26, 2008)

aww he looks really attached to the other horse in that photo


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

I like the 2nd gelding much better. His overall body looks stronger. Another caution on the paint would be the white around the eye. We have a paint with white over one eye and were told that it will in all likelihood develop skin cancer at some point in his life. We also have to sunscreen his muzzle every day-we're in southern California so sun is a big issue. 

I'd go with gelding #2. Give him a try.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I'm not really impressed by his conformation at all...colorwise, he's pretty, but conformationally, he looks like a couple of different horses put together...

I wouldn't spend 1500$ on him personally...you can find much better for that price.

The 2nd gelding looks much better balanced.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I think he's beautiful just lacks muscle.


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## BrittAnne (Jun 29, 2008)

He is very cute but something I noticed is he does look narrow in the front, I dont know how much that affects you and what you plan to do though!


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## Chickerdoodle13 (Jun 15, 2009)

I definitely think I like the second horse better. The first boy probably could make a nice little horse for someone, but the price is just much too high, especially for a horse that has little to no time under the saddle. 

I'm a fan of more muscular horses and the second guy has that. I'm assuming the first gelding was a paint, so he probably will fill out more. They tend to grow up until they are five or even six. Overall, I think the second choice horse will be a better one for you, especially since you won't have to pay $1500 on top of any money you might spend to get the first one trained! Also, saddle fitting would probably be a bit tough with his higher withers. (If I remember correctly fromt he pictures, he did have higher withers)

Good luck with your choice! Getting a new horse is always an adventure!


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## barefoot (Jun 11, 2009)

Even though you've already made up your mind, I just bought a 4-Year old Paint as an Eventing Prospect, and I think it's hard to buy a horse so young. You don't necessarily know how they'll grow, change, etc. I wouldn't advice it, but the horse I bought it from my trainer and I trust her.


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## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

Yeah, I think Im going to go with gelding #2. So far it sonds as if hes mine by adoption ($0) so hopefully I here more. I like his look much more anyways, and he does have a really adorable face.

(I think the second horse is his mom)


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Trinity said:


> Yeah, I think Im going to go with gelding #2. So far it sonds as if hes mine by adoption ($0) so hopefully I here more. I like his look much more anyways, and he does have a really adorable face.
> 
> (I think the second horse is his mom)


Cool...I like the the second guy...he looks super sweet...i bet you can't wait to get him home huh?


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## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

So I found out today, that in fact, Tank is mine! 
He will be coming home with me in July, when I have my boarding sitation figured out 
His owner is going to send me some more pictures aswell!
Im so excited!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yay, congrats. I can't wait for more pix and I am sure that you are super excited to get him home.  Good luck.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

I personally don't really like either horse, but that's just me. I'm glad you decided to steer clear of the first one, that much money for an unregistered untrained horse in this economy is crazy, plus he was really oddly put together. 

The second one I don't really like his back, but he looks like he will hold up well.


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## gabrielstriumph (Mar 15, 2009)

how come it says his name is navajo on the pictures?


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## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

Oh haha, with the paint?
I always re name horses, so if I was going to by him, thats what I was going to call him lol


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## barefoot (Jun 11, 2009)

Trinity said:


> Heres another photo, still not the best. Just seeing if his owner could send more.
> PS, by the sounds of it, he is mine
> 
> View attachment 7814


I LOVE his face marking.


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## Trinity (Apr 28, 2009)

I like how the blaze separates and then continues in a straight line of brown haha


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