# Why are they called "appendix"?



## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

I don't mean what combination of breeds (TB/QH). I mean where does the word "appendix" come from? My mom noted that an appendix in humans is something that you don't really need. :lol:

(She said this right after offering to loan me money to buy an appendix horse before my current horse sells, so she's just kidding  )


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

An appendix is also something that you can find in a book. And yes, I too wonder how the term got associated with horses.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

No idea but subbing!


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

The word "appendix" is from a Latin word, first used in 1500's, meaning "to append" or to add on. In books and so forth, the Appendix is something we're familiar with. In AQHA registry, the term "appendix" refers to a special registry "added to" but separate from the AQHA registry. This is excerpted from the AQHA web site at this link: Appendix vs. Quarter Horse

_"AQHA has created a special registry and numbering system for these Quarter Horse-Thoroughbred crosses. These horses are considered Quarter Horses, but are named for the registry system created for them — Appendix. They are denoted by a registration certificate that is white with a gold border (or completely gold if you have an older-style certificate) instead of blue. Their registration numbers also begin with an X. AQHA has registered more than 600,000 Appendix horses to date."

_This was a great question! I had always wondered that, too, so I looked up the AQHA info....there's more at the link I inserted above.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Basically th ehorse is registered but it is put in the "appendix" of the registry book, as opposed to the main part. I believe it or its offspring can get moved to the main book if it meets certain criteria.

Basically a way AQHA is further screwing with the breed by diluting it with more and more TB.

Registration nowadays is getting more and more meaningless. As the so called registries seem to stray from the original breeds more and more. 
It's gotten so bas in the TWH world when someone says they have a registered THW, you have to ask, "Which one?" as there are two different horses.


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## Spirit Lifter (Apr 23, 2012)

I have a registry certificate that is white with a gold border. I have always thought she was a pure bred QH. Her number does not begin with an X. Just sayin'.:?


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

I own an Appendix! Actually the origin is not from the AQHA but the horse industry itself. The American Quarter Horse was named for its ability to run a quarter of a mile with those powerful hind quarters. (why many well bred quarters are shown for sale with a rump view) Some 40-50 years or so ago, the industry decided to breed the TB into the Quarter horse to add stamina. It was becoming so common that the AQHA in its quest to maintain the "purity" of the breed made a side bar registry thus calling it the Appendix to the registry & the name of the breed was born. No one is trying to ruin anything with the registry.

BTW did you know an Arab, Saddle bred cross can be registered as an Arab, a Saddle bred & a National show horse....hmm if you had single papers you would think it was purely bred? just an example to show what they were trying to achieve...purity of a particular breed


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Gee, all this time I thought they were called appendix, because like a human appendx, they were something no one really needed or wanted.



Oh, I'm just kidding, you QH and appendix folks...:hide:


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> Basically th ehorse is registered but it is put in the "appendix" of the registry book, as opposed to the main part. I believe it or its offspring can get moved to the main book if it meets certain criteria.
> 
> Basically a way AQHA is further screwing with the breed by diluting it with more and more TB.
> 
> ...


Hahaha. Thank you for the laugh.


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

lol Faceman  I knew many nice Appendix QHs .... This was a great question! I feel much smarter now


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Faceman said:


> Gee, all this time I thought they were called appendix, because like a human appendx, they were something no one really needed or wanted.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I'm just kidding, you QH and appendix folks...:hide:


thanks for the morning laugh...all this Missouri heat is making me a little crabby...must keep it in check! lol


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

eclipseranch said:


> I own an Appendix! Actually the origin is not from the AQHA but the horse industry itself. The American Quarter Horse was named for its ability to run a quarter of a mile with those powerful hind quarters. (why many well bred quarters are shown for sale with a rump view) Some 40-50 years or so ago, the industry decided to breed the TB into the Quarter horse to add stamina. It was becoming so common that the AQHA in its quest to maintain the "purity" of the breed made a side bar registry thus calling it the Appendix to the registry & the name of the breed was born. No one is trying to ruin anything with the registry.


This isn't really accurate. Thoroughbreds have always been an accepted outcross, so more than 50 years. Think about all the founding sires that were thoroughbreds. And "Appendix" isn't really a separate breed.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

SpiritLifter said:


> I have a registry certificate that is white with a gold border. I have always thought she was a pure bred QH. Her number does not begin with an X. Just sayin'.:?


Nope, gold papers are that of an appendix horse.. Both of my mares have gold papers..

An appendix isn't a another breed, it's just an add on.. GoAppendix is also right saying that most of the AQHA foundation sires were TBs, AQHA started with those select horses and put together the requirement for registration for AQHA. They basically picked horses and said this one and that one will be in our foundation..There's a complete list somewhere.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Well I just think it's strange you can call a QH/TB cross an Appendix but my QH/Paint cross can't be registered with the AQHA at all! What's up with THAT?!  I mean come ON, is there anything about this big muscled up butt that doesn't SCREAM QH to you guys?! :lol:

Coosas Playgirl Paint


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

In all seriousness though, I have always wondered why a Paint can never be registered as anything related to QH but a part-TB can?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Who knows..Honestly I think the different associations should get more selective with their registry.. Crappy breeding is why it's all gone down the drain in the first place between that and backyard breeders popping out babies like daisies then registering them with whatever they can just is stupid to me...People should have a license to breed and if the horse isn't breeding quality it should be fixed.. If only it were that simple.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Well I just think it's strange you can call a QH/TB cross an Appendix but my QH/Paint cross can't be registered with the AQHA at all! What's up with THAT?!  I mean come ON, is there anything about this big muscled up butt that doesn't SCREAM QH to you guys?! :lol:


Not strange. Excluding horses with dual registration (which would really just make them quarter horses), AQHA has never accepted APHA horses as an outcross. As TB were the foundation of the breed, they have always been an accepted outcross. 

On another note, I think the appendix registry, not to mention advancement, is more complex than most people realize.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

It is.. I do like the crosses though, especially for my running horses. A good running bred horse crossed with a cow bred horse is exactly what I look for, it's the best of both worlds. 

I do think, I may be wrong, that if you show an appendix mare in AQHA shows and she wins so many points she can be registered as a QH and not an appendix.. I looked into it a while ago, I thought about running my mares in AQHA shows to possibly do that but here there are so few runners at breed shows that you only get like half a point if you win. I would have to pay more for that half a point than I would winning something at even a little local show..


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

SpiritLifter said:


> I have a registry certificate that is white with a gold border. I have always thought she was a pure bred QH. Her number does not begin with an X. Just sayin'.:?


Appendix are denoted by a registration certificate that is white with a gold border (or completely gold if you have an older-style certificate) instead of blue. Their registration numbers also begin with an X. 

Appendix horses are eligible to compete in all AQHA competitions but there are breeding restrictions. An Appendix horse can only be bred back to a permanent, or regular numbered Quarter Horse. An Appendix cannot be bred to a Thoroughbred or another Appendix horse and still be registered with AQHA.

Now, I THINK that you can drop the X from the horses registration if it proves itself by earning an ROM or running specific speeds but I could be very wrong on that....


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

For a horse to advance, it has to earn an open ROM or speed index of 80 or better. There are other requirements such as no excessive white or certain conformation defects, etc.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> In all seriousness though, I have always wondered why a Paint can never be registered as anything related to QH but a part-TB can?


You can if you breed a QH mare to a double registered stud...


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> In all seriousness though, I have always wondered why a Paint can never be registered as anything related to QH but a part-TB can?


at a quick glance your horse pic above doesn't look like a paint either..lol
Its been a long time since I looked up the facts from AQHA but I believe that full quarters were denied registration to AQHA if there was any white markings on the body above a point on the legs...it was seen as an undesirable trait. 3 of my 4 paints look full quarter accept for their wht & blue eyes....which BTW are associated recessive genes
and yes one of mine is double registered AQHA & APHA


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

This is Nikki's resigtration paper..


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

^^ You are not correct. The excessive white rule was lifted. It will be listed that the horse has excessive white on the registration papers, but they can be registered. That is where the rush of double registered horses came from.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

GoAppendix said:


> ^^ You are not correct. The excessive white rule was lifted. It will be listed that the horse has excessive white on the registration papers, but they can be registered. That is where the rush of double registered horses came from.


actually I am correct..I said were as in passed tense, many years ago lol! but you can read your own history lol. Going out to water ahve a great day! funny how written words are read & everybody wants to correct everyone else..haha


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

My mistake! And I think it is important to have the correct facts. You'll have to forgive me, with so much misinformation on this thread, I happened to overlook a word.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

eclipseranch said:


> at a quick glance your horse pic above doesn't look like a paint either..lol
> Its been a long time since I looked up the facts from AQHA but I believe that full quarters were denied registration to AQHA if there was any white markings on the body above a point on the legs...it was seen as an undesirable trait. 3 of my 4 paints look full quarter accept for their wht & blue eyes....which BTW are associated recessive genes
> and yes one of mine is double registered AQHA & APHA


Haha yes she is registered APHA but she's solid bred...dam is Reg AQHA and sire APHA. She has a bald face which I believe qualifies her as a Paint which you obviously can't see from the butt shot I posted ;-) lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

When I started riding I thought it was a reproduction term, like gelded or spayed, I soon learned....


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Haha yes she is registered APHA but she's solid bred...dam is Reg AQHA and sire APHA. She has a bald face which I believe qualifies her as a Paint which you obviously can't see from the butt shot I posted ;-) lol
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


well she is beautiful!


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Well thank you! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I checked, AQHA handbook, Section II rule 203 describes the procedure for moving from an Appendix horse to a new registration.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

eclipseranch said:


> 3 of my 4 paints look full quarter accept for their wht & blue eyes....which BTW are associated recessive genes


Actually, blue eyes are associated with two different dominant genes, not recessive ones.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

TBs were added to the breed to refine , add speed , and versatility to the AQHA.
The first registered horses were short stocky "bulldog" types.
They were bred for ranch work and excelled at it.
I have no problem with the outcross. Give me a foundation bred QH anyday. Shalom


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I have a problem with it, you end up with a bunch of different horses with the same name. The whole purpose of "registered" is so you can get a horse with a specific set of characteristics. You wanna addd more and more blood from another breed thats fine and dandy. Just call it something else. Seems like we see that in several different breeds. Its not enought o say QH, you now also have to say, "What type?"


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> TBs were added to the breed to refine , add speed , and versatility to the AQHA.
> The first registered horses were short stocky "bulldog" types.
> They were bred for ranch work and excelled at it.
> I have no problem with the outcross. Give me a foundation bred QH anyday. Shalom


You can't leave out that they were bred to race. Thoroughbreds have always been a part of the breed - since it is the beginnings of the breed. 

I admittedly never understand the foundation people or their mindset.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> I have a problem with it, you end up with a bunch of different horses with the same name. The whole purpose of "registered" is so you can get a horse with a specific set of characteristics. You wanna addd more and more blood from another breed thats fine and dandy. Just call it something else. Seems like we see that in several different breeds. Its not enought o say QH, you now also have to say, "What type?"



I think it is great. You want versatile and talented? Then you are going to need horses built to do different jobs. 

Now if we are talking versatile as "mediocre at a large variety of things," then fine, stick with your typical foundation-built horses.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

GoAppendix, there is NOTHING mediocre about those foundation bred horses.
They are the basis of the breed that's why they are called FOUNDATION.
I own a couple of Appendix mares here. They have regular papers but I would never breed them to a TB to dilute the QH blood that makes them what they are.
The racing part of the AQHA may be profitable but they are pretty one dimensional horses themselves.
The cutting and reining horses really dominate the registry.
I have been a member for over 40 years of the AQHA. Shalom


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

This old Indian fable is rather appropriate for today's Quarterhorse...




> *ELEPHANT AND THE BLIND MEN*


​


> *Once upon a time, there lived six blind men in a village. One day the villagers told them, "Hey, there is an elephant in the village today." *
> *They had no idea what an elephant is. They decided, "Even though we would not be able to see it, let us go and feel it anyway." All of them went where the elephant was. Everyone of them touched the elephant.*
> *
> 
> ...


​​As with Appys and a few other breeds, the breed term "Quarterhorse" has come to be almost meaningless, as there are so many conformation types to perform specialized tasks. Personally, I would rather see separate breeds. To me, a breed should be relatively homogenous, and when someone says "Quarterhorse" you should know what they are talking about - just as you would with the term "Clydesdale" or "Thoroughbred". But, in their quest to be all encompassing and generate as many members and dues as possible, many registries, including AQHA and ApHC lump a wide variety of conformations into one "breed". They aren't, of course one breed, as anyone can see... ​


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> GoAppendix, there is NOTHING mediocre about those foundation bred horses.
> They are the basis of the breed that's why they are called FOUNDATION.
> I own a couple of Appendix mares here. They have regular papers but I would never breed them to a TB to dilute the QH blood that makes them what they are.
> The racing part of the AQHA may be profitable but they are pretty one dimensional horses themselves.
> ...


Well, Shalom. Yeah, there is. I am glad you enjoy your horses, more power to you. But they are absolutely not suited to what I do as a member of the AQHA. And the FOUNDATION of the breed was thoroughbreds. 

Perhaps we have different definitions though, because cutting and reining horses are about as specialized as you can get. So I am not sure what your point is? I wouldn't classify those in with the "foundation" diehards.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Shalom is the hebrew blessing of peace and is not my name.
That would be Donald.
Goappendix if you don't want one don't buy one.
Appendix QHs are popular with English riders I have no problem with that.
I also believe if they are accepted for registration then they are QHs unlike a lot of breeders that I know.
The history and image of the breed is that of a cowhorse. It still is.
When the foundation QH's become obsolete the registry might as well also.
By the way I posted that I have 2 APPENDIX QH mares.
Grandaughters of TE N TE and Dash For Cash. They are about 3/8 TB. That enough for me. Shalom


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Right, your foundation-bred horses would be quite mediocre for what I do. I am glad we agree. And I don't have any plans to buy one. 

The history and image of the bred is also very much that of a race horse. Look at the name. But true to form, the foundation people always preach the ranch aspect.

If they were 3/8, that means you aren't advancing horses. To get those high percentage TB horses, it means they have to prove themselves up to the standards set by the association.


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

dbarabians & go appendix you are both correct the American Quarterhorse does have roots in the TB and the stout cowboy horse preservation is the original reason AQHA was formed in 1940's. your argument of how much tb blood & "how good a horse is" was apparently an argument then as well (before my time  ) Soo here is another example of horse people being passionate about their beliefs & hopefully the horses that these beliefs are about. Peacemaker here ...have a great day everybody & OP you got waaay more than you bargained for! XD


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

My take on it::lol:
The AQHA horse evolved from old stout ranch horses & TB to create it's breed standard/registry. TB having founding roots of what an AQHA horse is, that fact so not to be be ignored ,it is not surprising it has always been allowed as an acceptable outcross for AQHA registry:wink:.Appendix to me is more of an Appendage or branch off regular AQHA noting the TB influence/outcross.Today, like those TB in the founding years that displayed traits conformationally & ability at that time that fit AQHA breed standard,today's appendix also has that ability to be recognized & be given full regular papers having proven itself on level of others in breed by earning ROM or SI

All this squabble of foundation horses & TB, one just has to look at AQHA hall of fame horses or look at lists of Famous early founding horses{less than 50% foundation per nfqha} to see the strong presence of TB blood.
American Quarter Horse Hall of Fame & Museum: Hall of Fame Inductees
http://www.nfqha.com/Pdf/365famous.pdf


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

This is how I see it.. No matter what breeding a QH has.. new "styles", foundation, appendix..They all have a purpose and some will do better at certain disciplines than others..I wouldn't expect a foundation horse to be a hunter.. or a halter horse to be a running horse..A western pleasure horse excel at reining.. It just depends on the individual horse.. That said, I LOVE my foundation bred QH, he's an awesome little guy..He is 14hh and built like a tank, I would never expect him to excel at WP or halter, but he is a very good team penner, sorting, barrel racing, pole bending, and other things. He is good at most of the things I ask him to do. He is a really versatile horse and will absolutely work his butt off for me. 

When it comes to appendix horses..They are crossed with TBs for different reasons..Some crossed for running bloodlines, some for hunter, some for whatever... but those horses are bred that way to excel at one discipline and be good at it, they aren't as versatile (to me) as a pure QH.. My girls are bred to run and that's what they're good at. Nikki would absolutely SUCK in a WP class and Lark will get laughed out of the arena if I put an english saddle on her. 

While I agree with both different points that dbarabians and GoAppendix have posted I will say that most all foundation bred QHs did start with TBs but certain traits/conformation were looked for when the "founders" of AQHA were looking for horses to start the QH registry and breed those horses. Then they started breeding and looking for that ranch type horse and set the foundation for what the AQHA is today..Even though a LOT of people/breeders have let AQHA do down the drain today. 

I do plan on registering my gelding with the FQHA though, just for me. Because I like knowing that he is capable of being registered with AQHA and FQHA..Just personal preference..


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

See, now I feel awkward. My mare is an appendix and looks exactly like a QH in every aspect. When I asked her breeder why she bred to a TB (she is strictly QHs) she just replied "I wanted an appendix". No reason behind it. She runs a trail riding facility and doesn't compete. When she bred Raina, Raina didn't fit in. Not because of her conformation (which looks exactly QH), but because of her spirit.

Raina was too hot tempered to be a trail rider. In breeding to a TB, my friend created a competitor. I'm not quite sure what she was expecting when she bred Raina, but I don't think she was happy with the end result.

We are working on reining manouvers now, which come completely natural to her.

I did a massage on a 16.2H appendix gelding the other day. The difference between him and my mare are like night at day. He competes in cross country and has the body for it. If there are different "types" of QH, then I guess there are different "types" of appendix too.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah, there are certainly different types..My mares are bred different..Nikki is a cross between a running TB like top Deck and reining horses like Reminic..She's built like a TB..Lark is all running bred horses like Azure Te, Oh Nonstop, Jet Deck, Native Dancer, and she's built like a tank.. My girls are two completely different horses..Nikki is a hot horse and Lark is a dead head.. It just depends on the individual horse.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

^this. There are Appendixes that are bred to have more a hunt seat TB look, so they will be bred with those bloodlines that throw that conformation (and height). Then there are the running QH's (popular with timed event people), which have a different conformation...more compact and heavier boned....and smaller, meaning not so lean looking as a HUS Appendix.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Then there are those that are not appendix but look more appendix than you think your typical QH:wink:. My one gelding{in my horse album}to me is like that,he looks just like the Appendix AQHA that my Breeder/trainer friend has{he specializes in appendix AQHA breeding}.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

GoAppendix said:


> The history and image of the bred is also very much that of a race horse. Look at the name. But true to form, the foundation people always preach the ranch aspect.


I don't have a dog in this fight as I am not a QH person, but I strongly disagree with you here. I believe you are narrowly focused within your own circle. The "image" of a Quarterhorse by most people is NOT as a racehorse, but rather as a working horse. If you were to ask 1,000 people what a Quarterhorse was, I doubt 200 of them would even mention racing. The circle you run in is likely different, but when you start talking about a breed's "image" you have to consider its image to the general population - not its image within a particular discipline.

I do think you would have been right 40 and 50 years ago...when I was a youngster Quarterhorses were thought of much more as race horses. But with the growth of reining, cutting, tream penning & such, Quarterhorses do not have the same general image as they once did. There is nothing good or bad about that - it's just the way it is...


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

First off I am not arguing with anyone.
I also am refraining from being argumentive I have no reason to be.
I am not putting down any type of horse or its breeding.
The standard of the breed is the foundation QH and has been for decades.
The description of the breed is as the" ultimate cow horse" thats from the AQHA.
Yes there are different types and that is good it adds to the versatility of the breed and brings more people into the AQHA.
To state that foundation QH's are mediocre is ludicrus and is ignorant of the history of the breed.
Discounting the importance of those horses does todays QH no good.
GoAppendix has a problem with people having a differing opinion.
That is her issue not mine. Shalom


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Faceman said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight as I am not a QH person, but I strongly disagree with you here. I believe you are narrowly focused within your own circle. The "image" of a Quarterhorse by most people is NOT as a racehorse, but rather as a working horse. If you were to ask 1,000 people what a Quarterhorse was, I doubt 200 of them would even mention racing. The circle you run in is likely different, but when you start talking about a breed's "image" you have to consider its image to the general population - not its image within a particular discipline.
> 
> I do think you would have been right 40 and 50 years ago...when I was a youngster Quarterhorses were thought of much more as race horses. But with the growth of reining, cutting, tream penning & such, Quarterhorses do not have the same general image as they once did. There is nothing good or bad about that - it's just the way it is...


Huh??? Quarter horses were NAMED thus, for being able to sprint 1/4 miles races....that's how they started, in the Colonial days in Virginia. Do some research. When the Quarter Horse "moved" west...they become ranch horses, WELL after they were known for being racers.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

Faceman is right. When people think of QHs, they think of a ranch/cow horse first. A deadhead trail horse. A stocky western animal. 

When people think of TBs, they think racing.

QHs might have been named for their race stature, but not many people buy a QH for racing anymore. They buy them for working stock and western disciplines. 

The racing NAME of the quarter horse doesn't mean its a racing animal anymore. Its evolved into a western stock animal.

Many, many horse breed names are ages old and derive from what that horse was bred for many many years ago. The name of the animal never changes, but the use for the animal does.

Yes, its common knowledge on how the QH got its name. How it got its name and what its commonly refered as and thought of in the year 2012 are two totally different things.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Copperhead said:


> Faceman is right. When people think of QHs, they think of a ranch/cow horse first. A deadhead trail horse. A stocky western animal.
> 
> When people think of TBs, they think racing.
> 
> ...


And I rest my case, they were originated at RACE HORSES...no matter what they ended up turning into.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Faceman said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight as I am not a QH person, but I strongly disagree with you here. I believe you are narrowly focused within your own circle. The "image" of a Quarterhorse by most people is NOT as a racehorse, but rather as a working horse. If you were to ask 1,000 people what a Quarterhorse was, I doubt 200 of them would even mention racing. The circle you run in is likely different, but when you start talking about a breed's "image" you have to consider its image to the general population - not its image within a particular discipline.
> 
> I do think you would have been right 40 and 50 years ago...when I was a youngster Quarterhorses were thought of much more as race horses. But with the growth of reining, cutting, tream penning & such, Quarterhorses do not have the same general image as they once did. There is nothing good or bad about that - it's just the way it is...


I have nothing to do with racing, so it isn't my circle at all. I show AQHA. I also have nothing to do with cow horses. 

And no, I really don't care if the general population is uninformed on the history of the breed. That doesn't make the racing origins magically go away.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

GotaDunQH said:


> And I rest my case, they were originated at RACE HORSES...no matter what they ended up turning into.


If you agreed with me on that, then you would agree with Faceman as well. He said the exact same thing. I just said it differently. Read carefully.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Copperhead said:


> Faceman is right. When people think of QHs, they think of a ranch/cow horse first. A deadhead trail horse. A stocky western animal.
> 
> When people think of TBs, they think racing.
> 
> ...


Mine evolved into a lovely, lanky hunt seat animal. 


I think it is pretty ridiculous to blanket the entire breed as cow horses simply because the general public is uninformed.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

They are lovely dressage and jumping mounts as well  They are great all-around work horses. One of the most versitile breeds out there!


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> First off I am not arguing with anyone.
> I also am refraining from being argumentive I have no reason to be.
> I am not putting down any type of horse or its breeding.
> The standard of the breed is the foundation QH and has been for decades.
> ...


No, you need to go back and actually read what I said. I am not ignorant at all, unlike the people preaching that the breed was started as ranch horses. I referenced versatility and differing opinions on what it means. To me, the breed is versatile because it has a variety of types which can excel in different events. Some people see versatility as one horse that competes (often at a mediocre level) in many event. You are just kidding yourself if you think the typical foundation horse is going to excel at all things above the specialized horses. That is what I meant, and said. So don't twist my words. It isn't some personal attack, which you are trying to make it into. My horse would be a terrible ranch horse. Oh the horrors!!! 

I am quite familiar with the history of the breed, which I am sure is apparent to you. I find it ludicrous when people lament TB blood in a breed that was founded with TB blood.

I am sorry you don't seem to like others challenging your opinion. I see that a lot with the foundation breeders, so no worries, pretty used to it.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Well even though my mare is only 1/2 QH technically I love to hear others talking about the breed's versatility.  mine has been an Eventer, Fox hunter, Hunter Jumper, Show Jumper, competed at Hunter Paces and Dressage shows numerous times, is great on trail, and would probably make a great Western Pleasure horse if I had any interest in going outside the English world! Gotta love these horses 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

GotaDunQH said:


> Huh??? Quarter horses were NAMED thus, for being able to sprint 1/4 miles races....that's how they started, in the Colonial days in Virginia. Do some research. When the Quarter Horse "moved" west...they become ranch horses, WELL after they were known for being racers.


Do some research?...:rofl:

For crying out loud - do you think I, or anyone that can spell h.o.r.s.e. doesn't know that? Did you even read my post, or just the CliffsNotes version - it wasn't very long, you know.

The question at hand in my post has nothing to do with the origin of Quarterhorses - nothing. Try reading my post again...the question is - clearly, since I quoted goappendix, the image of the Quarterhorse today - which is NOT a racing horse. What its image was in Colonial Virginia is irrelevant. As db pointed out, even AQHA defines a Quarterhorse as a working horse. Do you think perhaps AQHA should "do some research" and figure out what a Quarterhorse is?

Or perhaps it is you that should "do some research" - you may find out the Quarterhorse of today, after the introduction of other breeds, including Mustangs, is nothing like the Quarterhorse in "Colonial Virginia". Of course, neither is the Thoroughbred. While I have nothing against Appendix Quarterhorses - I like them actually, crossing today's Quarterhorse with today's Thoroughbred is nothing like crossing them with "Colonial Virginia's" Quarterhorse of the time. Both breeds were much, much, different back then...


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Faceman said:


> Do some research?...:rofl:
> 
> For crying out loud - do you think I, or anyone that can spell h.o.r.s.e. doesn't know that? Did you even read my post, or just the CliffsNotes version - it wasn't very long, you know.
> 
> ...


LOL...tell that to the last several Presidents of AQHA who's roots are in AQHA racing.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

dbarabians said:


> First off I am not arguing with anyone.
> The standard of the breed is the foundation QH and has been for decades.


I don't agree with this at all. The very die hard foundation breeders are a niche within the breed as a whole, just as halter horses, HUS horses, and reiners are niches. Just because the word "foundation" seems to lend some gravitas to that particular niche does not make them the standard for the modern quarter horse.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

GoAppendix said:


> I have nothing to do with racing, so it isn't my circle at all. I show AQHA. I also have nothing to do with cow horses.
> 
> And no, I really don't care if the general population is uninformed on the history of the breed. That doesn't make the racing origins magically go away.


The history of the breed is not relevant to its image. A dachshund was bred to hunt badgers - hardly its image today.

If you want to insist on tieing the breed to its origin, why are you stopping with the Thoroughbred? Thoroughbreds arose from Turks and Arabs, so therefore Quarterhorses did also, right? Is a Quarterhorse's image one of endurance? Hardly.

I'm not sure why you seem to think everyone but you is "uninformed". Of the thousands of horse folks I interact with, I don't know of a single one above the age of 25 that doesn't know Quarterhorses were developed as sprint horses - power via a high concentration and high mass of fast twitch muscle is the very essence of the purpose of the breed. But for every Quarterhorse that harnesses that power for sprint racing, there are hundreds that harness it for barrels, calf roping, and a host of other performance disciplines. It is no surprise that the image of Quarterhorses is NOT as a race horse, as the majority of them are used for something else altogether...


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Seriously, I don't even understand why you are arguing this. I simply was saying the breed had racing origins and related that to the reason for the TB outcross, which has always been a part of the breed. What is your point?

And if you don't understand it was a racing breed, yes, you are uninformed. I don't think I am the only one to be informed, nor did I ever state that, so I would appreciate you not implying that. Try to use a better argument. 

But hey, if you just want to go with popular opinion, a large number of people also think ponies are baby horses. Should we just run with that?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Faceman you I , and most people understand that the modern QH was developed ranches to work cattle. The King Ranch 6666, WT Waggonner Estate etc are the founders of the breed.
They are also raced for short distances.
\or the record I do not breed foundation QHs and I do think that infusing TB into the QH has developed a more refined and versatile horse.
Thats good.
QHs are STOCK horses along with APHA and ApHC.
Go Appendix your need to argue and for validation is something I suggest you work on. Your opinion does not change the facts. Shalom


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

Faceman said:


> The history of the breed is not relevant to its image. A dachshund was bred to hunt badgers - hardly its image today.
> 
> If you want to insist on tieing the breed to its origin, why are you stopping with the Thoroughbred? Thoroughbreds arose from Turks and Arabs, so therefore Quarterhorses did also, right? Is a Quarterhorse's image one of endurance? Hardly.
> 
> I'm not sure why you seem to think everyone but you is "uninformed". Of the thousands of horse folks I interact with, I don't know of a single one above the age of 25 that doesn't know Quarterhorses were developed as sprint horses - power via a high concentration and high mass of fast twitch muscle is the very essence of the purpose of the breed. But for every Quarterhorse that harnesses that power for sprint racing, there are hundreds that harness it for barrels, calf roping, and a host of other performance disciplines. It is no surprise that the image of Quarterhorses is NOT as a race horse, as the majority of them are used for something else altogether...


Remember, Faceman, that you are talking to a girl who insists that dressage has no military background. I would take what she says with a grain of salt and just move on.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

dbarabians said:


> Faceman you I , and most people understand that the modern QH was developed ranches to work cattle. The King Ranch 6666, WT Waggonner Estate etc are the founders of the breed.
> They are also raced for short distances.
> \or the record I do not breed foundation QHs and I do think that infusing TB into the QH has developed a more refined and versatile horse.
> Thats good.
> ...


For someone who isn't interested in arguing, you sure do seem fond of taking potshots at people's characters. Shalom.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Copperhead said:


> Remember, Faceman, that you are talking to a girl who insists that dressage has no military background. I would take what she says with a grain of salt and just move on.


Excuse me? That post quoted me, and I've never made a comment about dressage on this forum.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> Faceman you I , and most people understand that the modern QH was developed ranches to work cattle. The King Ranch 6666, WT Waggonner Estate etc are the founders of the breed.
> They are also raced for short distances.
> \or the record I do not breed foundation QHs and I do think that infusing TB into the QH has developed a more refined and versatile horse.
> Thats good.
> ...


Spoken like a true foundation fanatic.


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## Country Boy (Jul 4, 2012)

It's a Latin word meaning add on. Like to add on a qh to a tb


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

eclipseranch said:


> BTW did you know an Arab, Saddle bred cross can be registered as an Arab, a Saddle bred & a National show horse....hmm if you had single papers you would think it was purely bred?


You are incorrect. An Arabian/Saddlebred cross can be registered as HALF Arabian, not a purebred. Its papers will denote it as a partbred. 

I don't believe it can be registered at all with the Saddlebred registry, as I'm fairly certain they don't register partbreds. 

The only part of your statement that's correct, is that it can be registered as a NSH with the NSH registry.

As far as Appendix QHs, I know very little about the AQHA, since I've never owned either a QH or an Appendix. I'll leave that argument to the experts of the breed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> In all seriousness though, I have always wondered why a Paint can never be registered as anything related to QH but a part-TB can?


B/C AQHA did not want excess white in their breeding stock. This is why up until recently they would not allow crop outs to be reg. TB have always been an excepted out cross which was needed in the begining.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I think this thread has gone astray:shock:. The topic was about Appendix AQHA & what that means/came about. I think some threads basically answered that trying to explain the origins of AQHA in regards to TB influence. so now Why is there a need for people to start a about dispute about the TB vs Foundation cowhorse style AQHA or the image of AQHA horse {today or way back when}.
It is what it is!! AQHA has TB in it orgins & includes that still today as an acceptable outcross recognized with the appendix registration:wink:


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

GoAppendix said:


> For a horse to advance, it has to earn an open ROM or speed index of 80 or better. There are other requirements such as no excessive white or certain conformation defects, etc.


No there is not. All you need to advance a horse is a ROM either in open or racing. Then the money to pay for the new paperwork. There are no other restrictions. Once a horse is advanced they can then be bred back to a TB or anouther Appendix and all their get are also advanced regardless of what they have done in the show ring.


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

Yes, there are. A N/H horse can't advance, a stallion with a parrot mouth can't advance, etc.

Here you go, 

Appendix vs. Quarter Horse


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

GoAppendix said:


> Yes, there are. A N/H horse can't advance, a stallion with a parrot mouth can't advance, etc.
> 
> Here you go,
> 
> Appendix vs. Quarter Horse


 
With the exception of white that is true of all stallions. If it is found out they are any of the above AQHA can pull their papers for breeding.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

GoAppendix said:


> Excuse me? That post quoted me, and I've never made a comment about dressage on this forum.


It wasn't directed at you :wink:


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## GoAppendix (Mar 22, 2012)

^^ Show me an example of that happening. Better yet, find the AQHA rule stating so.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

DrumRunner said:


> Nope, gold papers are that of an appendix horse.. Both of my mares have gold papers..



False, the new papers are all a weird gold/tan color. 

I see enough of them a year to know.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

Copperhead said:


> It wasn't directed at you :wink:


If you were directing that at me, I am also interested in where I made any such claim.

[insert passive-aggressive wink here]


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

It seems I was misinformed. Hmmm...so I have to retract my previous statement. It wasn't mentioned by the person I thought it was. I blame the sleeping pills I took last night before reviewing the boards. Ignore my post and continue with the debate


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

If I am remembering GotADunQH's comments correctly, she was absolutely correct in stating that the haute ecole movements of dressage were not used in battle, as they would have created a substantial hazard to both horse and rider. So I guess you can add me to your list of people whose opinions you will dismiss out of hand.

I fail to see what any of that has to do with this thread, though, other than you simply taking the opportunity to be petty.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> B/C AQHA did not want excess white in their breeding stock. This is why up until recently they would not allow crop outs to be reg. TB have always been an excepted out cross which was needed in the begining.


Ok well then that makes more sense! Forgive me for being obtuse, but what is a "crop out" and you mentioned "up until recently"? So "crop outs" are accepted now as registered with AQHA?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

spurstop said:


> False, the new papers are all a weird gold/tan color.
> 
> I see enough of them a year to know.


Um, no that's true..I didn't mean the entire paper was gold..it's known as "gold papers" here just as a QH has "blue papers"... I also did post a picture of one of my mare's registration paper.. I'm pretty sure I would know what they look like seeing as I have two appendix mares.








ETA - This is a picture of my mare's "gold papers" so don't tell me I'm wrong.


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## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

I have an Appendix Paint (appendix sire x paint mare). I love her to pieces and since I got her, kinda wondered myself. This thread has some interesting responses.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Does the APHA also have a seperate designation for those horses with a TB parent?
A crop out is a horse that was born with excessive white markings.
Breeders used to " dispose" of foals that were born with too much white.
Or have them registered with the APHA.
They did this with Cremellos and perlinos until recently. 
I know of a stallion that is purebred QH both parents were registered.
He has white that extends above his knees and a belly spot or two.
He was given away and the new owners were refused his papers because the breeder did not want anyone knowing his horses were crop outs.
Shalom


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Wow, all because of a little splash of white...sounds so sad :-( Well I read up on it and even with the change in rules about crop outs, my mare is a solid Paint bred anyway so she could never be registered with the AQHA anyway...APHA only! Well that and the Buckskin registry if I so desired...but I don't really care that much ;-) Just that she's registered with SOMETHING in my name is all I really care about!


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> Um, no that's true..I didn't mean the entire paper was gold..it's known as "gold papers" here just as a QH has "blue papers"... I also did post a picture of one of my mare's registration paper.. I'm pretty sure I would know what they look like seeing as I have two appendix mares.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No...Spurstop is right. My My Final Notice 3 YO filly has the EXACT same papers as your's above, gold and everything....however she is not an Appendix. Your's has "Appendix Certifcate" printed on it. Mine does not, that is the only difference between your papers and mine. The color is exactly the same.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

DrumRunner said:


> Um, no that's true..I didn't mean the entire paper was gold..it's known as "gold papers" here just as a QH has "blue papers"... I also did post a picture of one of my mare's registration paper.. I'm pretty sure I would know what they look like seeing as I have two appendix mares.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What I'm telling you is that the new papers are all that color be the horse appendix or not.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> Does the APHA also have a seperate designation for those horses with a TB parent?



APHA only divides the horses between Regular Registry (meeting color requirements) and Solid Paint Bred.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Yes I was surprised too by the new registration papers.I hadn't register an AQHA baby for a while & when I got my papers back was shocked :shock:at the new look for regular registry & them being gold/brown in color. The horses picture on back with marking description, hypp status & DNA case #, things that had always been on front of papers..


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

spurstop said:


> What I'm telling you is that the new papers are all that color be the horse appendix or not.


Ohh, see I misunderstood you. I thought you were telling me I was wrong about my mare having gold on her papers..


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