# There is no excuse for thin horses!



## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

_This is something that gets to me._ I don't care if you've had a bad winter, or the horse is old. Old horses can put on weight. I don't care if it was abused and therefore never puts on weight. I don't care if its a picky eater.

I've grown up in a house where I've been taught this. I've been taught there might be an underlying issue such as a thyroid problem or a dental issue. 

I'm not saying each and every pony needs to be shiny, and fat but I should not be able to see your horses ribs. I should not be able to see his hip bones and emaciated withers.

I'm sick of people saying/posting that they have a thin horse and they're sorry. You're not, because if you were you'd be talking to a vet, or a horse nutritionist. You'd be having your hay and soil analysed. You'd be doing everything possible to get it in health. You'd be rugging your horse and keeping it warm. You wouldn't be excessively exercising it. 

I'm sorry for the rant  But this needs to be posted.


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## LoveStory10 (Oct 31, 2009)

Thats right ^^ My old boy Bishop was really thin at one stage. He is old now, about 20 - 21. He is retired from work. He's not as unthin as he should be, but he's getting there  I got him a vitamin from the vet that'll help, he eats lots and lots of hay, grass, and he gets about 4 scoops of feed twice a day. He's going to be a good sized boy in no time 

I wrote that just so anyone can see that I talked to my vet, and I am fattening him up  But your right ^^ People that just say "sorry", but dont feed the horse more than what he's having then I dunno. I get it if you ARE trying, that its just taking a while, some horses are like that, esp. here in SA, but as long as your trying. And I'm NOT at all saying that those of you out there with a thin horse are not trying... so please dont take offence


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

I completely understand that it does take time to get weight and condition on a horse, but what I'm really talking about are the people who feed and feed and feed with no concern to the horse's digestive system or why it isn't gaining weight. I'm talking about the people who just say they're old and continue to ride their emaciated horses when really they should be in a paddock, retired.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Oh, I know what you mean! Lacey's thinnish right now and when I've tried talking to my BO about getting her more food I get the "she's old, that's what happens, it's not bad." crap and my favorite: "she's old and dying, basically, so why should we waste more hay on her?" What dumb butts. I'd move but I'm basically boarding her there for free and I really don't have a steady source of income so I can't justify moving her and hoping for the best, especially at her age. And I really didn't want to own her at this stage (becuase of the money thing) but according to them I officially own her now, even though we never agreed on that. The farthest we had talked ownership-wise was that I half owned her as of last July. Well, evidently I own her now. Thanks for sharing that news with me, guys! haha

Thankfully, now that the grass is coming in, she's grazing 24/7 so the pounds are packing themselves right back on. But still, I hate looking at my horse and seeing her ribs at all. I hate feeling happy when I can't see them, that shouldn't have to happen! 
I cannot wait until I can move my baby to somewhere that sees her as the princess she is and doesn't care that she's 25, since she obviously doesn't care! Haha


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

I have to disagree, and agree.
Agree becaue it's true.
Disagree becasue some horses are JUST HARD to keep weight on, even if you spen hundereds on getting hay,soil, and bodily tests done. Even if their rugged and not super old. Like TB;s. Some can be EXTREMELY hard keepers.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Hmmm also have to sort of disagree here. Illness, stress and injury can all make a horse lose weight and not put it back on for a long time.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

thunderhooves said:


> I have to disagree, and agree.
> Agree becaue it's true.
> Disagree becasue some horses are JUST HARD to keep weight on, even if you spen hundereds on getting hay,soil, and bodily tests done. Even if their rugged and not super old. Like TB;s. Some can be EXTREMELY hard keepers.


yep i agree with you !!

my sisters mare is a tb & a HARD keeper. fat for her is when you can barely see her ribs. she gets the best food you can buy & as much of it as she will eat. she is not unhealthy, that is just her body type. much like some people who others think are anorexic, but that is just how their body functions.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

I had no problem keeping weight on my hard keepin TB - it's not rocket science


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

I agree IF the horse is in good health.

A boarder at my barn has been trying to solve her horses weight loss and stress issues. He refuses to eat allot of the time but always has food in front of him. He has been seen I think twice in the past couple months, treated for ulcers, had blood work drawn up. I see her making every effort to address his health and weight issues and he will respond for a short time and then decline again and looks very thin right now.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

Agreed... barring no health issues needs added to my above post. It is not difficult to keep a _healthy_ horse in good weight


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

thunderhooves said:


> I have to disagree, and agree.
> Agree becaue it's true.
> Disagree becasue some horses are JUST HARD to keep weight on, even if you spen hundereds on getting hay,soil, and bodily tests done. Even if their rugged and not super old. Like TB;s. Some can be EXTREMELY hard keepers.





gypsygirl said:


> yep i agree with you !!
> 
> my sisters mare is a tb & a HARD keeper. fat for her is when you can barely see her ribs. she gets the best food you can buy & as much of it as she will eat. she is not unhealthy, that is just her body type. much like some people who others think are anorexic, but that is just how their body functions.


I agree as well. Some horses make it easy to keep them in good weight (neither too thin _*nor*_ too fat). Some horses are just tricky that way. Really balancing a diet for a horse in an art, IMHO. My guy tends toward being too heavy, something that scares me more than skinny sometimes, what with the "down the road" problems that that can play into (Insulin resistance, founder propensity, etc.). My sis' QH tends to go skinny over the winter (a bit worse than usual this year, as he had a nasty injury last fall that required stall rest for a long time), and does better when there's good grass available in general. I see it in cattle, too. Some look gorgeous all summer, fat and shiny, but in the winter with all-you-can-eat hay they still need than new summer grass to start bringing the pounds back. Our winters can be hell, though.

Yes, horse owners should strive to keep our horses in good weight/condition. No argument. But, there are horses that make that balance difficult, and to say that there is bar none no excuse to see a couple of ribs is a bit harsh, IMO.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Sorry but your attitude bugs me. There are MANY reasons for a horse to be thin that have nothing to do with abuse. Let's see here...there's rescued, hard keepers (esp thoroughbreds), old age, the list goes on and on. The place that I work at has horses that are used for hippotherapy. They are also 30 flippin' years old.Do you really expect them to keep the weight of a normal horse???


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Nelson has had a rough spell, and he was skinny for a few months. On that note, he's always been a very hard keeper because he is a TB, and his level of stress is high, even when he doesn't show it.

Alot of skinny horses have ulcers, unknown to the owner. While the owners could be pumping food into their horses, with no luck. Other horses have high metabolisim systems, like TB's and even when the owner is giving them the feed amounts they think they need, the horses can just burn it off quickly showing no change in weight. 

Many horses have digestive issues, without the owners knowing, and horses cannot gain weight until those digestive issues are addressed.

I'm not disagreeing that those who have horses and neglect them, due to ignorance or due to other reasons, should get punished - along with every owner out there of any animal species, whether it be a dog, cat, hamster and the list goes on.......these are lives in our hands and we have the power to do our best for them as we should.

But there are people out there who have horses who have issues, and try their very hardest to give their horses what they need. 

Horses who are getting the groceries, and aren't gaining weight as well as others would, are hard cases. I am spending over $100 a month on feed, Purina Senior and Purina Ultium. Plus $65 a month on a round bale, plus $110 a month on suppliments *digestive and ulcer*, plus Coco Soya oil - and Nelson is just now putting weight on, and he is still ribby.

He's been scoped twice, both stomache and farther than his stomache, to reveal ulcers in both. And he is 21 this month. He is a choker, and he just went through a near death colic. 

What would you do if he were yours?


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

You have a good point, but you are failing to acknowledge a few things. As several people have mentioned, there are often outside circumstances that cause horses to be a little ribby that do not stem from neglect or lack of care. Illness can do a number on your horse, no matter how much you feed, or how well you care for them and it takes time to regain that, as MIEventer mentions above. You can't just throw a lot of feed at them all at once to make up for it. Aside from illness, there's also conditional factors in the horses lives that can cause temporary thinness. My mare is a tiny bit ribby right now - she just grew and gave birth to an enormous foal. My yearling colt is a bit ribby right now, because he's a gangling, gawky yearling that is going through an enormous growth spurt. *Seeing a little rib doesn't automatically make a horse unhealthy.* But at the same time when you are talking about severely underweight, with protruding spine, hipbones, a TRULY emaciated horse, yes there is no excuse if the horse has been in someone's care for more than a few months.

But by the same token, and from your "no-tolerance" standpoint especially, a fat, obese horse is just as unhealthy as a thin one, and in some ways more prone to long term damage. Why aren't you complaining about those ones?

People have gotten used to the image of the fat, flabby, overweight horse as an reflection of shining health, and it's just frankly incorrect. Horses are athletes, (well, some of them are anyways!) and their physique should reflect that. Seeing a little rib on a horse doesn't mean it's unhealthy. I've not seen a picture of ANY horse members posting on here that I would consider emaciated.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I have to agree as far as theres no excuse for emaciated, starving horses.

I do also have to agree with everyone else though that there are situations when seeing a little rib is understandable. One of my thoroughbreds is a ridiculously hard keeper, but I manage. However he's just had an episode of major colic. Guess who's showing a little rib right now? And I spoke to the vet about it today and he said it is perfectly understandable in his situation. 

So therefore, I agree, but I disagree at the same time.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Great post Indyhorse, you make some very valid points, and I appreciate that.

You are right about overly weight horses. I've heard in the horse world that the weight leads to stress on their joints, knees, hocks, ankles which leads to joint issues down the road. 

Also, the fact that just because you see some rib, doesn't make them unhealthy. Look at Eventing Horses in the Mid to Upper Levels where they condition to the extreme to beable to ride the sport - most show ribs, but they are definately not unhealthy. The ribs show due to how conditioned they are and how high their metabolism systems are - while yet, they have muscle and are vey physically fit.

~~~~

I wish I had pictures of Nelson's condition during January, Feb, and March. I wish I took pictures of his condition then and his progression.

But here he is today. These pics were just taken yesterday before we headed to an Eventing Clinic for the day:


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## Lucentael (Apr 5, 2010)

I agree mostly with the OP. 

It's not the fact that horses may get a little thin that I find inexcusable. There are many situations that lead up to such a result that have very little to do with what the horse is actually taking in food-wise. There's always circumstance, there's cause-and-effect, as there is with everything. What I find inexcusable is when people try to justify themselves regarding their clearly underweight horse like they're trying to fish for some reason why they can't bring it back to a healthy weight. With that kind of mindset, the horse is probably going to get worse or just not improve (I stress the probably, though, since sometimes the justification is just a result of being defensive of the situation, not complete and utter 'not caring'). 

But then again, I'm also the type of person who dislikes excuses and/or the all-too-common "oh I can't" or "it's a lot harder in my case" antics. If the horse is thin, it needs some weight, and if it's difficult keeping weight on them, it becomes a matter of finding out how to do so (such as using outside sources like your vet). Either way the owner should be pretty avidly working on a solution. If not, it's then and there it becomes inexcusable. And no, of course it's not going to turn over night and the horse will be sparkly perfect and at a good weight at the crack of dawn the next day. Weight gain takes a lot of time. I know that, you know that, they know that. But it is possible, and if anything is even the slightest bit possible, making up excuses as to why it can't be done is just going to put blocks in their own road, not to mention negatively affect their horse.


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## CountryJay (Apr 7, 2010)

I disagree. We had a premature Arabian Gelding who was abused for a couple years. When we got him, we trained him and tried to put weight on him but he just wouldn't keep it. We had he teeth done, a few pulled, every year, once or twice. He received one scoop of grain, and 1/2 a bale everyday. He almost always had access to a round bale. We didn't ride him a lot, and you could still see every bone in his body.
We also had two off-track thoroughbred mares. One, who is 24, and my dad's baby who is 12. the eldest, Wings, was _terrible_ to put weight on. We rode her a few easy times every month, and for one week at the county fair. She had 1/2 bale every day, and in the summer she got a scoop of grain. Almost always she had access to a round bale. Even now, at a retirement home, where she hasn't seen a saddle in 8months, still is a skinny horse. My dad's horse, Chicky, is ridden a few times every week. She gets beet pulp 2 times a day, full access to a round bale, 2 scoops of grain, and another 1/2 a bale. Her teeth are fine, she's healthy. And guess what? She's still underweight. We have tried to get all 3 of these horses to a normal weight for 7 to 8 years now. 
Now you tell me that we didn't try and spend a ton of money to keep our healthy horses fat.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

MIEventer ~ Nelson looks great! I hadn't seen recent photos of him. I wouldn't consider him underweight at this point at all. He still has some rebuilding of the lost muscle to do along his topline, but that has nothing to do with feeding and just takes time with a recovering horse. I'm impressed with how good he looks right now!

The thing is, people get used to the appearance of some breeds as well, and you can't apply a QH build to a TB, for example, and I've seen so many people tell TB or Arab people their horses are too skinny, when they aren't, they are just built differently and not meant to be "fat". People anamorphize way too much with horses.

My yearling is showing a good bit of rib right now, but if you look at the rest of him instead of focusing on just the ribs, he is well muscled, there is even a "channel" along his topline and over his rump. He could use a little more weight, but he's growing and changing fast right now and he'd be ribby no matter what he ate unless I purposefully packed a bunch of fat-based poundage on him - and on an undeveloped, growing skeletal frame, that would be very unhealthy for him long term and not doing him any favors.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

CountryJay said:


> I disagree. We had a premature Arabian Gelding who was abused for a couple years. When we got him, we trained him and tried to put weight on him but he just wouldn't keep it. We had he teeth done, a few pulled, every year, once or twice. He received one scoop of grain, and 1/2 a bale everyday. He almost always had access to a round bale. We didn't ride him a lot, and you could still see every bone in his body.
> We also had two off-track thoroughbred mares. One, who is 24, and my dad's baby who is 12. the eldest, Wings, was _terrible_ to put weight on. We rode her a few easy times every month, and for one week at the county fair. She had 1/2 bale every day, and in the summer she got a scoop of grain. Almost always she had access to a round bale. Even now, at a retirement home, where she hasn't seen a saddle in 8months, still is a skinny horse. My dad's horse, Chicky, is ridden a few times every week. She gets beet pulp 2 times a day, full access to a round bale, 2 scoops of grain, and another 1/2 a bale. Her teeth are fine, she's healthy. And guess what? She's still underweight. We have tried to get all 3 of these horses to a normal weight for 7 to 8 years now.
> Now you tell me that we didn't try and spend a ton of money to keep our healthy horses fat.


I don't buy that.. I've kept hard keeper TB's in good weight. I'd be looking into the quality of your feed and hay, and also, probios is cheap.

For healthy horses, regardless of breed, there's _always_ some way to keep them nutritionally sound. Look into different feeds and a better hay source. Obviously your current plan isn't working if it's been 7-8 years


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I have a 22yr old gelding. People told me he looked like a 5yr old and could not believe he was 20. He was just in such good condition. Muscular, great weight, good teeth, healthy coat. Then his friend foundered and we had to get a new horse. We ended up getting a mini mare, who we rescued from being tied to this one post her entire life. It was sickening. She had halter marks digging into her face where her foal halter had dug into her now grown face. Anyway, my gelding hated her but at least it was something. He wasn't alone anymore. Then we got a Paint Clydesdale gelding and a pony stallion. NOW my gelding, Arthur, suddenly liked this mare. He has always been dominant so he took to herding her around incessantly! He lost a ton of weight. A lot. He was ribby, his muscling declined..... I mean, none of our horses have ever been thin. They've always been a little tubby or perfect weight. So I guess it wasn't that bad, we were just a little paranoid. So we went to equine nutrition seminars galore......trying to find something that would work. I posted on many horse forums (not this one, I didn't know of this one yet) and finally got something that said to use beet pulp. I did that loyally for a few weeks. He started to get better, but I wasn't going to have him on beet pulp his entire life, so at one seminar I brought a notepad and I filled 30 pages of notes. I finally found the perfect diet. Granted, it's 2 whole feed scoops of food, but thats what he needs. Plus, the food is engineered so he won't colic from a lot of feed. It's 1 1/2 scoops of Nutrena Equine Senior. And 1/2 scoop of crimped oats. And a serving of senior vitamins. Now he looks like that 5yr old again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

Thats the same 'recipe' I used with my old guy... works great!


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

qthorsecrazy, not all HARD KEEPER TB's are as ahrd as others. While yours may have been easier, some ARE hard.


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## DustyDiamond (Mar 18, 2010)

I agree. Of course if your horse is a little bit on the skinny side you're going to feed more but if you are not getting any results obviusly just feeding it more isn't going to do anything.

People that "care" so much about their horse and want it be fattened up need to go to the vet about it not just think that feeding it more will help and if it does then it does.
But if it doesn't then you need the vet.


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## Equine Imaging (Apr 11, 2010)

This is a really interesting thread and there are some great points being made here. 

I've had a fair amount of experience with starving horses as my mum and aunty used to run an animal rescue centre. 

We took in two horses that were just skin stretched over bone - they literally had what looked like a shelf between their spines and the top of their ribs. 
The one mare was a TB and I'm not sure what the other was. We put them on a feed called Equilibra which worked absolute wonders for them. Within about 12 weeks they looked pretty much back to normal. The feed manufacturer used their before and after photos in an advert.

I appreciate that a lot of horses are harder to keep covered than others, but going back quite a while ago, I started riding a TB x who would have been about 19 or 20. For the first year that I rode her, my mum and I looked after her all winter and fed her, changed rugs etc etc. I made sure she had loads of hay and always had a good feed in the evening. Someone on the yard remarked that they never saw her looking so good. 

The following year, the person who owned her told me the horse had not kept her weight so well last year (What???) and took over feeding her that winter. Well, the weight just fell off her. It was terribly distressing to see her going downhill so much. The fact that the owner wouldn't let me rug her either didn't help. So once again, I got some Equilbra and started feeding her in secret. Not the best scenario in the world but the owner was just such a complete know it all that there was no point speaking to her and I worried if I said anything, she would stop me seeing the horse altogether and then she would get even thinner. 

Anyway, to get back to the point, in a lot of cases, there is no excuse for skinny horses.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> MIEventer ~ Nelson looks great! I hadn't seen recent photos of him. I wouldn't consider him underweight at this point at all. He still has some rebuilding of the lost muscle to do along his topline, but that has nothing to do with feeding and just takes time with a recovering horse. I'm impressed with how good he looks right now!


Thanks Indy! Nelson was alot of work, but we're getting there! The conditoining part, absolutely. He lost alot of EVERYTHING due to January, so it has been a daily process to get that muscle back.

He's always had a topline difficult to build. I've done so much long and low with him, so much to the point now, that's all he wants to do. Now that the snow is gone, we do alot of hacking out in the large pastures and are now just incorporating trot and canter segments in our daily eventing exercise program.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

thunderhooves said:


> qthorsecrazy, not all HARD KEEPER TB's are as ahrd as others. While yours may have been easier, some ARE hard.


 exactly.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I think you're being a little harsh and there are circumstances which lead to skinny horses even with the owner doing everything they can. 

We had a TWH gelding that we bought when he was a weanling. He was a walking skeleton, apparently the breeder ran out of money and stopped feeding the horses. When my parents bought him they had the vet out and poured money into this horse. He got better and grew up but he always had health problems and always lost weight in the winter, no matter what we were feeding him. And yes we had the vet out about it and talked to lots of "knowledgeble" people about it. 

The last two years of his life (especially the last one) he was really thin and even worse in the winter. He wouldn't eat enough food to keep the weight on. We had the vet out to float his teeth and check him out. Nothing that they could see caused his problems. We finally put him down two falls ago when he was 27 because I didn't think we could get him comfortably through another winter. 

He was dying plain and simple. Same thing my old cat did. There are some diseases that end with the animals extremely emaciated. Have you ever watched a person die after a long drawn out illness? They are almost always a rack of bones. After he died I spoke with some of my professors about his condition and the difficulty keeping weight on him and they thought that it stemmed from being starved so severly when he was younger. A combo of some actual damage to his system and his mental "full point" being drastically lowered due to the starvation in his younger years.


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## DustyDiamond (Mar 18, 2010)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I think you're being a little harsh and there are circumstances which lead to skinny horses even with the owner doing everything they can.
> 
> We had a TWH gelding that we bought when he was a weanling. He was a walking skeleton, apparently the breeder ran out of money and stopped feeding the horses. When my parents bought him they had the vet out and poured money into this horse. He got better and grew up but he always had health problems and always lost weight in the winter, no matter what we were feeding him. And yes we had the vet out about it and talked to lots of "knowledgeble" people about it.
> 
> ...


I do somewhat i agree with this.

Yes there are cases where the horse is just too old and just loses so much weight it is just unbearable to look at and to control.

Although i agree with the fact that there is no excuse for a thin horse, I also agree that being old is the only exception.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Being old isn't an excuse.

Dying is.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

wild_spot said:


> Being old isn't an excuse.
> 
> Dying is.


Exactly.

I get what you guys are saying about what might be normal for a TB isn't normal for a QH. My description in my first post was just a general one, not one that defines each and every breed and circumstance. And some people might take a lack of muscle as a lack of weight but that is a completely different thing.

Horses do take time to put on weight, its not some magic thing that happens overnight. So to the people with thin horses who are trying, I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the ones who make up excuses. There are many, many reasons why a horse might be thin, but there are far many more reasons why you should be trying to get them into a healthy condition.

I'm not saying that they all have to chubby little horses, but a horse should have a nice healthy condition. I mean c'mon, being part of a responsible horse owner is taking care of your horse and caring for its wellbeing.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

thunderhooves said:


> qthorsecrazy, not all HARD KEEPER TB's are as ahrd as others. While yours may have been easier, some ARE hard.


Yes I realize some are, _but thats when you find something that works for that horse_. There are alot of good feed products out there, and can mix and match to find something to work on anything.. believe me

You can't keep feeding the same thing day in and day out if it's not working for that horse, and cry hard keeper.. there _is_ something that will work if taken the time to find it.

I know how difficult it is keeping some in a good weight. There's alot to be said for good groceries :wink:


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> Being old isn't an excuse.
> 
> Dying is.


When your old you ARE dieing.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ If you want to be like that, we are dying from the moment we are born.

There is a difference between an old horse and one that is clearly dying. People call horses old from as young as 17/18 up to 30's. When I say dying I mean the body is starting to shut down.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

wild_spot said:


> ^ If you want to be like that, we are dying from the moment we are born.
> 
> There is a difference between an old horse and one that is clearly dying. People call horses old from as young as 17/18 up to 30's. When I say dying I mean the body is starting to shut down.


However, if a horse is dying and quite clearly has lost its appetite and is dropping weight dramtically and there was nothing I could do, I'd let it go. I'd make the call and put it down.


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## CountryJay (Apr 7, 2010)

qtrhrsecrazy said:


> I don't buy that.. I've kept hard keeper TB's in good weight. I'd be looking into the quality of your feed and hay, and also, probios is cheap.
> 
> For healthy horses, regardless of breed, there's _always_ some way to keep them nutritionally sound. Look into different feeds and a better hay source. Obviously your current plan isn't working if it's been 7-8 years


 
Okay, try buying the perfect grain, hay, and getting all the medical treatment when _you just don't have that kind of money._ And tell me how you feel. It is hard enough to buy the grain, beet pulp, her vitamins, corn oil for the grain, hay bales, and round bales. But now you want us to pay for the vet to come and pay for thousand dollar tests to be done to tell us something that we already know-- She's underweight. We have had the vet look at her when he does coggins, and he says she's a hard keeper and that we should feed her nice hay and grain everyday-- Which we do to the best of our ability.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ Ditto.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

CountryJay said:


> Okay, try buying the perfect grain, hay, and getting all the medical treatment when _you just don't have that kind of money._ And tell me how you feel. It is hard enough to buy the grain, beet pulp, her vitamins, corn oil for the grain, hay bales, and round bales. But now you want us to pay for the vet to come and pay for thousand dollar tests to be done to tell us something that we already know-- She's underweight. We have had the vet look at her when he does coggins, and he says she's a hard keeper and that we should feed her nice hay and grain everyday-- Which we do to the best of our ability.


I can completely understand that if your horse was a little bit underweight, but if she was drastically underweight, then as a responsible horse owner, wouldn't you just surrender her or put her up for sale?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> Okay, try buying the perfect grain, hay, and getting all the medical treatment when _you just don't have that kind of money._ And tell me how you feel. It is hard enough to buy the grain, beet pulp, her vitamins, corn oil for the grain, hay bales, and round bales. But now you want us to pay for the vet to come and pay for thousand dollar tests to be done to tell us something that we already know-- She's underweight. We have had the vet look at her when he does coggins, and he says she's a hard keeper and that we should feed her nice hay and grain everyday-- Which we do to the best of our ability.


Exactly, and by you doing the best you can do within your means is wonderful!


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I agree with CountryJay!


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## CountryJay (Apr 7, 2010)

THank you guys. Some one understands. And they weren't deathly or close to deathly thin, you could just see their ribs and the hip bone, on some the hip bone was showing more than the others, but they were still healthy.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

CountryJay said:


> THank you guys. Some one understands. And they weren't deathly or close to deathly thin, you could just see their ribs and the hip bone, on some the hip bone was showing more than the others, but they were still healthy.


That raises a good point though. If say you're financially struggling and your horses become thin because of it, what do you do? Its not like you could sell them if they were emaciated. Do you surrender them? But what if you want to keep them or get them back one day? I've never been in a situation like that, so I can't imagine what one would do.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Gidji said:


> However, if a horse is dying and quite clearly has lost its appetite and is dropping weight dramtically and there was nothing I could do, I'd let it go. I'd make the call and put it down.


 
That's really easy to say, until you're in that position. Red was really skinny going into the summer. But he was happy, sure he tired easily, but I brushed him and gave him treats and all around pampered him. He still folllowed me around when I had a bridle out and wanted to go for a ride. :? I only pushed the point to have him put down (not technically my horse) when fall rolled around and it was going to start getting cold. 

I agree that old doesn't necessarily equal dying or even thin though. Sheet, my 30 yr old mare is a total fatty. I have more problems keeping weight off of her than putting it on her! 

I guess I do understand what you're trying to say, but I just took a little bit of offense at the seeming lack of understanding in your OP. 

If I couldn't feed my horses now, well I'd put Flame down and either lease out or sell Soda. Only if I couldn't find any money to feed them. If they were already really thin I would hesitate to sell because I would think it's going to be hard to find a decent home for a horse that is already pretty thin.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Gidji said:


> I should not be able to see your horses ribs. I should not be able to see his hip bones and emaciated withers.


The other side of that ribby coin is that my vet is on my case because he *CAN'T* see the upper rib cage on my insulin resistant horse:?

There's a big difference between seeing some rib on a healthy horse as opposed to the high hip bones and emaciated withers you rightfully speak about.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

CountryJay said:


> Okay, try buying the perfect grain, hay, and getting all the medical treatment* when you just don't have that kind of money. And tell me how you feel.* It is hard enough to buy the grain, beet pulp, her vitamins, corn oil for the grain, hay bales, and round bales. But now you want us to pay for the vet to come and pay for thousand dollar tests to be done to tell us something that we already know-- She's underweight. We have had the vet look at her when he does coggins, and he says she's a hard keeper and that we should feed her nice hay and grain everyday-- Which we do to the best of our ability.


I don't make alot of money, and I do know how hard it is. However, if I see something isn't working, I look for another way - I'll find better hay, I'll buy a better feed. I give up alot to make sure mine get what they need. 

If I can do it on little money, anyone can


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## CountryJay (Apr 7, 2010)

qtrhrsecrazy said:


> I don't make alot of money, and I do know how hard it is. However, if I see something isn't working, I look for another way - I'll find better hay, I'll buy a better feed. I give up alot to make sure mine get what they need.
> 
> If I can do it on little money, anyone can


 
I see what you mean, but my family still pays for 2 college tuitions, 3 horses and feed, and then a few other things. But i do see what you mean, we do try everything we can that doesn't blow up our budget.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

walkinthewalk said:


> The other side of that ribby coin is that my vet is on my case because he *CAN'T* see the upper rib cage on my insulin resistant horse:?
> 
> There's a big difference between seeing some rib on a healthy horse as opposed to the high hip bones and emaciated withers you rightfully speak about.


Could you explain that to me? Is your horse not allowed to have a certain amount of weight on it due to its condition?


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Any horse you should be able to feel the rib cage on and even slightly seeing the rib cage isn't a huge deal. IR and Cushings horses can have their symptoms aggravated if they are overweight. Actually for most animals (including humans) it's generally healthier to be slightly underweight than slightly overweight. 

On the BCS chart you want your horse to be between a 4 and a 5. Most people would consider that horse needing to gain weight if they saw it in a pasture.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Insulin resistant horses gain weight REALLY easily and can become overweight very easily. 

I know an insulin resistant horse who cannot be on grass, has troubles sweating (which presents more problems in and of itself), and is fluffy everywhere.

Being obese is just as dangerous as being thin.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

eventerdrew said:


> Insulin resistant horses gain weight REALLY easily and can become overweight very easily.
> 
> I know an insulin resistant horse who cannot be on grass, has troubles sweating (which presents more problems in and of itself), and is fluffy everywhere.
> 
> Being obese is just as dangerous as being thin.


Thanks for explaining that. I guess I should change this thread to "Keeping your horse at a healthy weight" because there are quite a few different things that could be considered unhealthy.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

there are exceptions but they should be well documented and under vet care to be considered a true exception. my older horse passed away at the age of 2 and for the last three years prior he was under a vets care for multiple conditions that affected his ability to hold weight. he was however fed 3-4x/day and was also on supplements and ulcer meds. he cost over $800/mo in feed and supps alone. but i use an animal communicator and both her and my vet agreed that when it was time he would let me know - and he did. up until the day he died he was perky, alert, active, running around and having fun with fire in his eyes (well the one eye he had left...lost one as a result of insulin resistance). and when he showed signs of decline i made the appt that day and when he went down in the field before the vet got there (she had an emerg colic call) i kept him comfortably tranq'd that he never suffered.

he was skinny those last three years and worse that last month. but i wouldn't do anything differently knowing that he went when he was ready and he was happy and comfortable and not suffering until that point. he was an exception in my opinion - with all the feed bills and vet bills to go with it.

all the other horses, even those at the rescue, are on diet and nutrition plans to put on weight, with dental and farrier and vet care as needed not just for maintenance but for improvement in health an weight gain - and supplements and meds as needed too. if your horse is skinny, but you can't afford higher fat feed, better quality hay, free choice hay, the right supps, the right ulcer meds, etc., then i feel it's the OWNER at fault for the horse's condition.


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## masatisan (Jan 12, 2009)

When I first saw my barn owners older stallion Lado Satan Paulo (21yo) I was taken aback by how underweight he was. I could see all of his ribs, his spine and his hips. I didn't ask why he was thin, worried about offending him. All of his other horses, over seventy of them, were in good condition. I later learned that the stallion had been ill for several years, fighting to keep weight on, and almost died on more than one occasion. This year he is recovering better than in the past, he has gained quite a lot of weight and some muscle as well. He isn't worked often though because he has degraded pasterns.
This is what he looked like as a 10 year old (he was the champion Canadien stallion of Quebec at the time):








And this was last summer:








I don't have a picture of him now but his ribs are much less visible, and he is filling in behind the shoulder as well. Sometimes it is illness, and older horses (older anything alive really) are more prone to getting sick, when they do it usually has a bigger toll on them. It's not that the owners aren't trying to keep them well, sometimes it's the horse who impedes his own recovery, not through any fault of his own, just things that can't be helped, like age or genetic predisposition.


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

I think this is kind of unfair. What happens when you board and your BOs flat out LIE about what your horse is getting fed? What happens if it's your first winter with a new horse and you don't KNOW they have trouble with their weight UNTIL they lose it. It's not fair to assume everyone with a thin horse isn't doing something about it. Alot of it is trial and error, too. Trying different feeds, mixtures, etc. and you need to wait to SEE if they are working.

When I first got my mare she was a wee bit overweight. I worked her, she was at a good weight. We moved barns at the beginning of winter. She had ribs showing (with a little bit of a winter coat) and was about 885 lbs. We immedately bought her a med weight winter blanket and grain, went up every day sometimes twice a day to feed her. But we didn't KNOW she wasn't getting fed all they told us she was UNTIL we saw ribs and talked to other boarders that informed us the hay was tested and was crappy quality, they didn't get fed alot of it and god only knows how often they REALLY got grained. We moved her. This winter she got fed more just in case she was a hardkeeper (we weren't sure since she wasn't being fed much that previous winter) and she stayed nice and plumpy, but if we didn't have that experience we wouldn't know until we saw ribs. She didn't come with a sign that says "I lose weight in winter."



Gidji said:


> Thanks for explaining that. I guess I should change this thread to "Keeping your horse at a healthy weight" because there are quite a few different things that could be considered unhealthy.


It's not that easy. Dream gets fat off air, she also has arthritis. We can only work her so much and not hard so she doesn't exactly shed pounds that quickly. I think getting an obese horse (one with a condition like IR) at a healthy weight is sometimes HARDER than getting weight on a skinny horse. It involves more work on your part but you have to make sure not to over do it at the same time.



I totally get what you are saying, in some cases it is just absolutely ridiculous. But at the same time, with a new horse or situation where you don't know everything that's going on with them...it's hard to keep weight on before you even know it's coming off.


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## ADollopofDaisy (Nov 6, 2008)

Hmm I agree! At my camp we lease out the horses fo the summer and one pony came back in pitiful condition with clumps of hair left from his winter coat and very very skinny (ribs showing-withers prominent) anyways the owners I guess fell into hard times or something. Lame excuse the camp would have taken the horse back. Anyways I was working with that horse and hand walked him up hills to get his muscle back and he was fed toonnnnnsss of beet pellets half of which he threw around the barn. It never should have come to that. Unfortunately it was very hard to get that lost weight back. Oh and other little story. At my barn we have a retired horse in he late 20 or 30 I'm not sure, a person who works at the barn was saying that he lost a lot of weight cause of his winter coat being so long they didn't see. That just proves to me that you should be checking on your horse even if you don't ride them! Thankfully all the weight was quickly put back on with special hay. Okay well yeah....wait one more  this horse at my old barn was always skinny as long as I can remember and I never sa the owner
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Well, as generally stated, I agree and disagree.

I agree that there is no need for emaciated horses. If you have one, your vet should be out. If you can't afford a vet, give him to someone who can. If there's no one to take him and he's suffering, there's always option number three, which is sometimes the best choice. Sometimes we gotta think about the horse before we think of ourselves. 

However, being ribby isn't any reason to persucute someone. As stated, there is TONS of reason why a horse can be underweight. It's spring, my stallion is getting ribby. He always has. I've finally had enough and he's getting cut within the month (hopefully, if not next month for sure) because he just can't handle being a stallion physically. I have a mare who lost a foal while I was gone and went through some depression, lost a bunch of weight that I'm putting back on her. She's a five year old. I'm not sure what our two year old is doing but he's looks...Well, really odd, right now. All the others are fine. My 23 and 22 year old looks like they are 10. 

I don't think it's fair to lump everyone together as neglectful horse owners as because a horse is a bit (reasonably) underweight. It 99% of the cases we cry wolf, we have NO IDEA of the circumstances surronding that horse and owner and it's completely unfair to pass judgement then. I think we all know what assuming means.


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## ADollopofDaisy (Nov 6, 2008)

Hmm I agree! At my camp we lease out the horses fo the summer and one pony came back in pitiful condition with clumps of hair left from his winter coat and very very skinny (ribs showing-withers prominent) anyways the owners I guess fell into hard times or something. Lame excuse the camp would have taken the horse back. Anyways I was working with that horse and hand walked him up hills to get his muscle back and he was fed toonnnnnsss of beet pellets half of which he threw around the barn. It never should have come to that. Unfortunately it was very hard to get that lost weight back. Oh and other little story. At my barn we have a retired horse in he late 20 or 30 I'm not sure, a person who works at the barn was saying that he lost a lot of weight cause of his winter coat being so long they didn't see. That just proves to me that you should be checking on your horse even if you don't ride them! Thankfully all the weight was quickly put back on with special hay. Okay well yeah....wait one more  this horse at my old barn was always skinny as long as I can remember and I never sa the owner Make a Visiable to fix it. Just frustrates me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ADollopofDaisy (Nov 6, 2008)

Hmm I agree! At my camp we lease out the horses fo the summer and one pony came back in pitiful condition with clumps of hair left from his winter coat and very very skinny (ribs showing-withers prominent) anyways the owners I guess fell into hard times or something. Lame excuse the camp would have taken the horse back. Anyways I was working with that horse and hand walked him up hills to get his muscle back and he was fed toonnnnnsss of beet pellets half of which he threw around the barn. It never should have come to that. Unfortunately it was very hard to get that lost weight back. Oh and other little story. At my barn we have a retired horse in he late 20 or 30 I'm not sure, a person who works at the barn was saying that he lost a lot of weight cause of his winter coat being so long they didn't see. That just proves to me that you should be checking on your horse even if you don't ride them! Thankfully all the weight was quickly put back on with special hay. Okay well yeah....wait one more  this horse at my old barn was always skinny as long as I can remember and I never sa the owner Make a Visiable to fix it. Just frustrates me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

My pony Bart has to be skinny because he has/is at risk for cushings. My vet says he is at a healthy weight when you can see his ribs. I feel so bad for him but if we let him get enough weight where you cant see the ribs, you can feel fat deposits on his butt. Not good. So the amount of skinniness/ribbyness of a horse depends on certain health conditions. Not all ribby horses are poorly cared for.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Gidji said:


> _This is something that gets to me._ I don't care if you've had a bad winter, or the horse is old. Old horses can put on weight. I don't care if it was abused and therefore never puts on weight. I don't care if its a picky eater.
> 
> I've grown up in a house where I've been taught this. I've been taught there might be an underlying issue such as a thyroid problem or a dental issue.
> 
> ...


Really can you come and tell Sara that??? She is a 30 yo broodmare. She gets 15 lbs of Equine Sr every day, anouther 15 lbs of soaked Alfalfa Cubs 8 ounces of Ultimatum Finish 100 and all the 3rd cutting Alfalfa she wants. She also has access now to grass. She has been de wormed and checked. No matter what you feed that mare she does not gain weight. She has very very little muscle. She is by no means the thinnest horse I have ever seen but you can see her ribs and there is nothing that can be done about it. 

There are always horses who for what ever reason just do not gain weight. It is said but true.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Hmm after re-reading my posts and some others, I feel that some of you are completely right and have addressed some things I didn't consider.
Every horse is different, and I guess I came off a bit obnoxious. I think that we should be trying to keep our horse's at a healthy weight for the individual horse. 
Sorry for sounding silly


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## Savvy Debonair (Feb 11, 2010)

They should be as sleek as seals . Old saying we had on the AusRFS.

Though individual horses are different, though i did make an RSPCA complaint about 8 horses that where litterally skin and bone, and eating the tumble down shelters, that is not acceptable.

2 disappeared, one with an impaled shoulter, and one with that much green coloured discharge coming from his nose.

The others got moved to a beatufiul large field, and already they are filling out, there ribs less visable and there not as hollow. adn they look happy.

I would go into cardiac arrest if i saw Red with protruding hips/ribs, i would know there was something wrong.


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## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

I totally agree. Not so much about the ribs thing, I'm found (personal experience) that some highly fit horses (Eventers, endurance horses, ESPECIALLY racers,) are always going to have a rib or two on them, because they just have no fat, all muscle. But they should still have filled out withers and butts and by one or two ribs, I mean the-faint-outline-or-one-or-two-when you-stand-at-the-right-angle-in-the-right-light-if-you-squint-and-cross-your fingers. Not deeply sunken emaciated ribs.

But there is no excuse for down right skinny horses. None.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

There are often reasons as to why a horse is kept 'ribby'

Laminitics and/or Cushings affected animals are best if kept on the thin side where you can certainly feel their ribs and see the back ones.

Illness can make a horse drop weight and be difficult for them to gain it. 

Personally I hate seeing fat animals, especially youngsters, they should be covered but not fat.

Really fit horses carry no extra weight, a racehorse running in distance races will be very fit and you can see all its ribs.

There are also horses that do not gain weight no matter what they are fed, doesn't mean that they are poor, just not fat.


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## Tarpan (May 6, 2012)

When I first got my horse he was lanky and a bit ribby despite having been kept on good food and good pasture for months after being seized for neglect. His owner kept him starved down to control him I guess (WHY do people do this?!?), although I don't know why he would need to since his challenges to my authority are few and far between at a healthy weight. Anyway. What really helped out in terms of getting my boy looking good was exercise. It seems counter intuitive, but being ridden regularly as well as being fed well was what really helped him bulk up and start looking good. Six months later and he does not look like the same horse at all.


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