# Seeking Barn Layout Advice / Feedback



## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

1.9 acres of unrestricted grazing area will get destroyed in no time by two horses. I encourage you to research 'rotational grazing' as well as reading the book "Horsekeeping on a Small Acreage" by Cherry Hill. This book provides property layout ideas, manure management, pasture management, and more.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

So, let's see where my jumbled thoughts go toward...

Steel shelters...not my choice!
A _minimum_ 4' up needs to be lined with wood a horse can not kick through and de-glove their extremity or lacerate seriously.
Solid walls designating the horse "stall space" to 4' height then bars or specific kinds of grills so seen but not touch to ensure no fighting only ugly faces can be done between inhabitants or not touching what they should not in the rest of the building for the animals safety...
Solid high walls surrounding, enclosing your feed area and a tack area to deter vermin from visiting and barn dirt from also invading. With the exception of where the horses would be I would concrete the floor for cleanliness, ability to store and work on equipment easily.
I would do a steel roof with full underlayment of wood or insulated to reduce heat and noise and depending upon climate help insulate against brutal cold.
Walls for average size horses should be a minimum of 8' high, preferably 10' so if a horse "bounces, aka rears for any reason inside they not bonk the skull in injury or death. My horses are 16 hands and they not touch nor get to close playing that I worry.
Door openings will matter if your t/o are individual or more than one to each area...more horses the wider but would _not_ do less than 8' for a run-in design. More than one opening if a run-in design so no bullying occurs nor fight if one is in and goes after the other trapping them inside...it happens.
That overhang needs near doubled in width to offer the kind of protection you refer to wanting...nothing less than 12'. 
At 8' wide a driving rain will soak those against the front of the structure seeking shelter from rain, sun...nice or nasty weather. Not every horse will go inside a shelter, but needs shelter from the elements the overhang will provide.

How you layout your barn placement on the property is going to have much to do with friendly and useful or a pest to now need to do anything with.
As far as what you put under where the horses shall be, first off is raise the entire ground 4' above grade so with settling you not flood with compaction of the ground surrounding as happens.
Bury all your water and electric to needed depths depending upon where you live.
All electrical in the barn building needs to be encased in steel or steel conduit used to protect against rodent sampling they love to do to electrical. GFI the entire barn and all outlets for safety reasons. Plan on outlets more than what you think you need, as electrical cords are a no-no in barns.
If you plan on inside hay storage.... look to see what making that area fire-proofed or resistant would entail as today it seems we hear of devastating barn fires to often often caused by spontaneous combustion of hay products, rodents and electrical and extension cords...
What you choose to use for base of a barn ...remember you need to be able to clean it easily so ground up rock to me is not cleaning friendly and many types of rock/gravel pack to solid consistency so choose wisely.

As for the overall space you think sounds a lot in reality is not enough to just let the horses be out on it.
You will need a method to rotate the animals on/off as the horses will have favorite areas to eat and eat it to death, then you have a sand environment and no return growth.
Rotational is fantastic or some sort of forced to walk to snack... @loosie has this at her place and she says works well for exercise and letting the grass regenerate as you move them to different areas easily...she'll be here to comment as I've called her.

If we all had unlimited {within reason} space to graze our animals...
8 acres of grass, broke into 4 quadrants then would allow 2 horses access for a week, then move to the next quadrant, rinse & repeat....set amount of days grazing then moved allows 3 weeks of time before the mouths return to graze = sufficient time to allow growth and manure spread and breakdown to occur. 
If you can do something similar, gates placed no narrower than 6' openings, preferably 10' for the horses to pass through loose and allow ample space for equipment of truck/tractors to safely get through and not hit the fence is needed.
Some of my thoughts...enjoy the planning.
🐴...


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Ditto. @ClearDonkey.

Even with only one horse on that small of a plot, you will be feeding hay all year long

We are not trying to burst your barn building bubble because many of us like nothing more than to give our two cents in that regard but it is just as critical to give thought to how the land drains (think a sea of mud during your wet season) and how you should cross fence & and successfully do rotational grazing


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Like others have said you'll need to do pasture management with rotational grazing. 

Also I would not store hay in barn where horse live. Fire hazard is huge had square bales stores in feed room part of barn. We had to get hay out of there an fast. Was heated up an ready to spontaneously combust. 

We built a separate building for hay after that. An that building is far enough from horse barn if it went up in flames it won't endanger horse barn. 

Agree with other posters on advice given. Gates need to be wide enough to get big trucks or machinery through them.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

If you irrigate your pastures you will have more grass. You will still need to supplement with hay. I would have the doors at the hay bales so it is easier to load the large round bales and take out the large bales. I would do the same for smaller bales. Your door have to be large enough to have the hay equipment enter unload and back out. ALso you have to have room for the doors to be out of the way of equipment. 
I would not place rubber mats on gravel. You would need something over the the gravel or the rubber mats can be punctured. t

You want your run in shed to be open on the opposite side of your prevailing winds, as wind will just blow rain snow etc under the cover. 

I personally do not like hay stored in the same area as stalls and tack shed, in case of fire.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Ceiling height - lowest point should not be below 10 foot. 12 is better. Doors you can get away with 8 but 10 is safer for you if on equipment or riding into the area. It is also safer for the horse.

Fire wall is a good thing but if open run with them never being closed in you could be fine. I agree I mistook window for door. Better to have big wide doors or open that end as well to make it easy to maneuver and get bales in and out.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

This looks very similar to my barn (48 x 32 with partial loft) and I absolutely love it. Yes, the overhang is worth it. I would not want to do without it, but I would put two doors at the end of the building and put the overhang there rather than along the side. The overhang over the stall/run-in doors helps keep the elements out, and gives extra shading for the horses that prefer to stand just outside the shelter. You want two entries/exits in the run-in shelter part so horses don't get trapped. I'd also put two doors on the inside of that part of the buidlings. That makes it easy to bring one horse in for grooming, and lead another out. But that's less crucial than the two ways in and out for the horses. 

I wouldn't put round bales in there loose, they make an awful mess and you'll get hay anywhere. I also wouldn't do gravel anywhere inside the barn, but that's me. I have concrete all over with rubber mats on top. I know people say the concrete is hard on their legs, but since mine are out 24/7 with access to the double stall (similar to your 12 x 24 run-in), they don't spend that much time in there. The advantage of concrete is that it doesn't shift, sink, and it's easy to clean. 

My building has metal siding, but is framed in wood. I think you can use metal, but you will absolutely want to have it boarded at least to 4-5 feet on the inside to avoid injuries. 

Let me see if I can find a diagram of my barn... I posted a bunch in here when I was building it.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

concrete can sink and crack depending on your soil type. Clay heave will crack concrete. I would put sand down,lots of it then the mats.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

stevenson said:


> concrete can sink and crack depending on your soil type. Clay heave will crack concrete. I would put sand down,lots of it then the mats.


Not if done right. I had a full foundation put in for my barn, and tons of fill (the land where it sits was pretty wet so the contractor insisted we do it this way). It will never go anywhere. We are in a cold climate and this contractor put in the same foundation he would for a house just to make sure of it. Not cheap, mind you, but will last forever.


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## MagentaMesa (Mar 12, 2017)

Hello again. Thanks for all the input, I'm still trying to digest things. There are so many ways a structure could be built, and so many different cost factors.

I had a guy come out who does concrete / construction and he was suggesting that I could pour a 24x36' concrete slab, ~5.5" thick with rebar and (I think) some kind of buried concrete footing/anchor. Then, instead of having the shaded overhang on the left running down the whole length of the building, have the 24x12' run-in area at the back with just dirt/sand flooring (maybe add rubber mats, too?) and metal sidewalls + roof, with no back wall so that the horses could enter and exit the covered area at will. Then build a divider wall, like a stall wall I guess, with a door the horse could be lead through to enter the rest of the building for grooming, etc.

The concrete man claims to also own horses and just suggested keeping the hay bales outside. It seems like opinions vary wildly on many issues, including that one. It would certainly be convenient to store it outdoors on top of a raised surface. All the farmers around here just leave the bales uncovered on the ground ... so I'm not sure how to feel about it. Having covered storage is ideal but costlier.

As far as the building foundation, we do have expansive clay soils. Unfortunately the most preferable spot on my pasture to place this barn is also a bit of a low point where some water would naturally want to flow past during a heavy rain. My lot is very rectangular, about 5x longer than it is wide, so convenient placement options are limited, though the concrete guy acted confident that he would raise and level the base high enough out of the dirt that it wouldn't be a problem. I'd love to raise it several feet out of the dirt but I would also worry whether they properly compacted the soil to avoid concrete cracking and settling ...

So many things to consider 🙁 I appreciate the help. @Acadianartist if you (or anyone) has diagrams I would definitely take a look to compare and improve ideas.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

All I can say about horse hay uncovered and exposed to the weather elements is you are *not* going to be happy if your hay gets wet and molds = total loss for me as I don't feed moldy or wet hay to my horses.
You may be facing a costly vet bill for sick animals if they eat tainted hay...be careful.
If the people in your area have cattle...they're ruminants, animals with multiple stomachs can digest molded food and not be intensely ill from it...in fact by me, the wetter and nastier the dairy cows seem to like it more..._gross!!_

If you are going to store your hay outdoors, raise it off the ground on double pallets for airflow and less dampness absorbed into it. Cover with tarps putting a 2x4 or several around the bales so airflow again can happen.
🐴.... _jmo..._


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Ok, here's a VERY rough drawing that is NOT to scale, lol. I suck at this. I know I had a better one at one point, but could not find it so threw this together fast. I do love my barn, and vets and farriers love it. We have rubber mats down the center aisle, and in the stalls. Half the building is an equipment bay for our farm tractor, etc. but we also store hay there. There is a full wall separating the equipment bay from the barn area for safety. Obviously, if I didn't have the equipment bay, we could put in more stalls, but I am trying hard to limit myself to two horses. 

Oh, and originally, I had two separate stalls on the right side of the building as per the diagram below, but I decided to tear down the wall dividing them to make one large run-in. I saved the boards and got the contractor to put down two vertical boards that hold them in on both ends so if I need to split the double stall into two separate stalls (say I have a sick horse that needs stall rest or I have a new horse coming in), I can put the boards up in a matter of minutes and go back to two stalls. Though honestly, I never bothered. I love the big open stall and the horses do too. It feels very open and airy. Also adding a few interior and exterior pics so you can see what it looks like. 



















You can see the overhang in the pic above. It doesn't look like much, but it actually protrudes 10' and we love it! We now have a hay feeder under there (keeps the hay dry), water (keeps the sun from hitting it) and of course the snow. 










That's the center aisle looking out to the back. It is VERY roomy so easy to get a horse turned around, get a machine in there, etc. 










We've finished the inside boards all the way to the top since this photo, but you can see that we did not actually finish the ceiling over the stalls, just over the aisle to use as a loft. The stalls are open right up to the rafters for really good air flow. We installed sliding windows in each stall (bigger ones in the equipment bay) and placed them high enough that we didn't need bars. Dutch doors inside (facing the aisle) and outside (under the overhang) are easy to build, install, and adjust.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

Gosh your barn is pretty @Acadianartist, and it looks very functional. That overhang must be an engineering feat without support at the front. How do they do that? It gives me in earthquake-prone NZ the heebie-jeebies but I imagine it has massive beams or cables holding it up


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

MeditativeRider said:


> Gosh your barn is pretty @Acadianartist, and it looks very functional. That overhang must be an engineering feat without support at the front. How do they do that? It gives me in earthquake-prone NZ the heebie-jeebies but I imagine it has massive beams or cables holding it up


I wanted posts, but the contractor said it would be a problem if the horses start to rub up against them, potentially making the stucture unstable. It would have been fine if I didn't intend to turn my horses out in it, but I use the paddock as a sacrifice area for winter, and whenever I want to keep them off grass. Picture a horse rubbing its butt against those posts and imagine what it could do to the integrity of the overhang. All he did was get wider trusses built for that part of the roof so it is actually an extension of the entire roof, not just an add-on. It will not go anywhere. That said, we don't tend to have massive earthquakes where I live. What we do have, is snow, and a lot of it, so the entire roof is built to take a huge snow load. 

You can sort of see it in this picture where they're putting in the longer trusses. Two sets of trusses were made - one set for the barn side with the overhang, the other set for the equipment bay side. It all fits together for one smooth roof.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

rambo99 said:


> Like others have said you'll need to do pasture management with rotational grazing.
> 
> Also I would not store hay in barn where horse live. Fire hazard is huge had square bales stores in feed room part of barn. We had to get hay out of there an fast. Was heated up an ready to spontaneously combust.
> 
> ...


Gosh reading your comment increased my blood pressure. What a day that must have been!


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Ideally hay should be in a separate building due to fire risk. 

I would consider if you are buying a horse trailer in the future? As that trailer will do better if stored under cover. If your storing a trailer in there, I would want to be able to drive in and park under one side. 

Climate - is your climate hotter or cooler? If warmer, you want a more open barn design to allow airflow. You will want fans installed to keep the barn cooler and vents with cupolas in the roof to allow hot air to get out. 

If a metal building, I would want the roof painted in elastomeric coating. Probably the east and west wall as well... I want to do my metal barn with elastomeric coating but would need to rent a cherry picker to get up there, so it hasn't gotten done.

Also extra stalls- in case friends come over or stay the night with their horses. Or if you want storage for a tractor or mower.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

4horses said:


> Also extra stalls- in case friends come over or stay the night with their horses. Or if you want storage for a tractor or mower.


Yes to the extra stall idea (stalls as in the plural may not be realistic), but keep in mind it will probably get filled by one of your own horses, lol. Or, I don't know, you might decide to get a companion pony for your horse because when your other horse goes off-property, he loses his mind and begins to develop ulcers.. and next thing you know there are three horses in the barn. You know, hypothetically speaking of course... 😬


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Besides what others have said, I just want to add that the time to correct the drainage is before you build. Water running off a roof compounds any drainage issues. Horses and mud mix poorly. NZ is wet, and cool compared to much of the US, so that is a place to put a lot of serious attention. 

Note the most common direction storms come from -- shelter that side well, and don't put your important entrances there. 

Write down sequences of daily chores to figure out where to place things. Don't put your manure bins uphill of your horses' butts. Don't put your water source far away from where you will need water. Don't put your hay storage where you will have to shlep it through rainstorms to get it to your horses. Etc. 

I've stored hay outdoors. I HATED it. On pallets and under tarps. It still managed to rot. The joy of filling hay nets while crouched under a flapping wet tarp really was lost on me. Maybe in the desert it works. 

In earthquake areas you need _a poured perimeter foundation with the wall framing anchor bolted to it_ (I'm from California).


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> Not if done right. I had a full foundation put in for my barn, and tons of fill (the land where it sits was pretty wet so the contractor insisted we do it this way). It will never go anywhere. We are in a cold climate and this contractor put in the same foundation he would for a house just to make sure of it. Not cheap, mind you, but will last forever.


WHere I live it is clay soil. Heavy clay. I have a special foundation for my house , post tension. It may crack but it will never move or heave. However, the patios did not get the tension and they are heaved and cracked. I thought it was to be included when we built, but somehow it got overlooked. SO yes, even concrete done right can crack and heave. It all has to pass inspection here. patios, sidewalks.


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