# What color is she? (Pic heavy)



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

So this is a mare at my rescue, we've had her for quite a while and she is just one mystery on another xD For some guidelines, she's gaited we believe she's a Criollo but have no honest idea xD if you know please share!
I've always thought she was a flaxen chestnuts roan sabino - but someone pointed out she has _black_ skin in some spots, some of her has black skin, while the rest has a typical dark gray skin, but where she's got her white from sabino she's got pink skin (obviously). So I'm thinking maybe she's a silver dapple bay roan sabino? but her ears aren't black - only her muzzle, underbelly and her bum cheeks xD She also has some black polkadots on her belly, no idea where those are from - the volunteer who loves her also found a few chunks of black hair, my best guess was bend or spots. These are the best pics I've got unfortunately, she's wintery now so it's hard to see anything so some of these are older. She also changes colors constantly - sometimes very pink looking, sometimes very chestnut looking. 

Here is my Pretty in Pink:
Summer coat:



























Winter coat:

















Her black belly spots it is fur, not bald spots:









The black belly spots and you can see the dark black skin on her underside, again the skin under the solid pink fur is gray, not black










So I have no idea!! Anyone know?


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

I want to say she is a chestnut roan sabino flaxen as well. Chestnuts have black skin under the colored parts while the white markings have pink skin.
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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

She's not a roan. She's just flaxen chestnut sabino. The roaning is caused the sabino. Nothing strikes me as unusual about her skin coloring either.


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Looks red roan sabino to me. She's pretty!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

In my horses you will see Sonnys Butch Cassidy aka Pepper. He is my max Sabino paint and the black spots in the skin occur even though he is almost completely white except his inner ear which is all red hairs lol. He was born with a Medicine Hat a red mane and tail and red ticking on his neck shoulders and flanks. He is registered with the APHA as a sorrel overo. Now as he aged the Medicine Hat "roaned" out and the ticking on the neck and shoulders has almost all disappeared its still there but the hairs are spread farther out he has to be wet or sweaty to see them really. The red mane and tail are almost completely white as well few red hairs dispersed in there. Ok so pepper's skin is almost all pink but he has black mottled spots on his ears,neck, chest, flanks and rump. I'm not certain but these are areas that red hairs are/were so the skin didn't turn all pink as pigmented hair instead of just white are/were present. When people see his black spots through his white coat more often then not people ask me or assume he is an appy but he's all paint . Here are some pics I don't have real great shots of his spotted skin at the moment so you may need to look close. 










Natural eyeliner on both eyes. (got lucky with that) ears are mottled as well 









Rump spots 









Spots on neck shoulder best pic I have atm.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Pepper has several sabino paints in his lineage on his fathers side. Pepper's sire Prime Time Country is a loud sabino registered chestnut overo that looks very similar to Jetalito. But I heard he was gelded do to the fact that he kept producing max sabino's and his breeder bred for loud colored paints but i guess almost all white was a little too loud lol. Pepper is Impressive bred but from N/N horses.  Sonnys Butch Cassidy Paint

Pepper's great great grand sire Jetalito is a beautiful loud paint registered as a chestnut Overo but there's obviously more than one paint pattern there the sabino is pretty obvious.









Scenic Jetalito pepper's great grand sire is a max sabino I saw him featured in an APHA article about sabino's I thought that was an interesting read. 









Little info on sabino if your interested great reads  worth the time reading. The first article was the one I was talking about that had scenic jetalito. Articles show the wide range of sabino patterns and some that look a lot like your mare.

http://www.apha.com/breed/pdf/SabinoDec98.pdf
http://www.painthorsejournal.com/pastissues/pdfs/TheScienceofSabinoAug07.pdf
APHA.Com - The Genetic Equation
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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Wow thanks everyone - I am surprised though, all our chestnuts at the barn have a medium gray skin, not true black like hers. So that's interesting! I love color genetics xD and where she's solid chestnut, she has that same medium gray skin, but her nose and underside is true black


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Any chance she's dominant white? Her pattern seems reminiscent of Puchilingui:


Or would the "roaning" effect be a sign of sabino? The photo of Puchilingui is a bit washed out, but it appears he has large patches of color without "roaning," unlike OP's horse.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

verona1016 said:


> Any chance she's dominant white? Her pattern seems reminiscent of Puchilingui:
> 
> 
> Or would the "roaning" effect be a sign of sabino? The photo of Puchilingui is a bit washed out, but it appears he has large patches of color without "roaning," unlike OP's horse.


I could be wrong. That horses looks sabino to me see how jagged the edges of the white are and there is red coloring around the eyes I believe it's sabino that likes to leave coloring around the eyes kinda like Pepper's eyeliner. And the underbelly is also white. Look at jetalito.
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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Took this from APHA website. This describes Punks rescue mare and Verona example. 
In the middle range of expression sabino horses are fairly distinctive and are usually difficult to confuse with other patterns. Most have white extending from the belly. Most have roan and flecked areas in addition to white areas. A few, though, will be nearly entirely roan without patches of white. These could be confused with true roan horses, although the facial and leg white usually gives these away, and they do not have dark heads typical of true roans.

And while I was reading that article this one describes Pepper's sabino. Even the Appaloosa confusion.

The whitest of the sabinos are nearly or entirely white. Some retain color only on the ears. Others are indeed white all over. One of the whiter ranges of expression includes color on the ears, chest, and tail base. These are the medicine hat Paints of the native tribes from the Great Plains. Most sabinos that are largely white are very speckled and roaned, and some can be confused with Appaloosas.
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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I believe that Puchilingui has been tested/confirmed DW. Not positive though
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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

I do think she is chestnut roan sabino. I really think the roan is a different gene than the sabino because it changes seasonally.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

kassierae said:


> I believe that Puchilingui has been tested/confirmed DW. Not positive though
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You could be right I'm not actually familiar with that horse. But from what I've read dominant white and sabino can almost look exactly the same. In that case genetic testing is needed if she has had the test for Dom white and was positive then you are right not sabino.
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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

MelissaAnn said:


> I do think she is chestnut roan sabino. I really think the roan is a different gene than the sabino because it changes seasonally.


Your absolutelyy right roan and sabino are different but sabino can look very similar to roan there are some key differences. I don't see roan the "roan" your seeing is on the face pathches of the OP's horse. Roan can not affect the face hairs. Look at the article links I posted earlier there are all kinds of sabino horse pics to check out 
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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

The one I posted is genetically tested dominant white, so he's definitely got that, but it doesn't say if he was also tested for sabino.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> You could be right I'm not actually familiar with that horse. But from what I've read dominant white and sabino can almost look exactly the same. In that case genetic testing is needed if she has had the test for Dom white and was positive then you are right not sabino.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The Puchilingui line is Dominant White, not sabino.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> The Puchilingui line is Dominant White, not sabino.


It can look so similar. Must have similar genetic origins.
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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> It can look so similar. Must have similar genetic origins.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. Dominant white, sabino, roan and tobiano are all mutations of the same gene.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> Yes. Dominant white, sabino, roan and tobiano are all mutations of the same gene.


Figured as much but wasn't certain 
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