# Mare Doesn't Look Pregnant



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

At the risk of sounding harsh....although the neighbor maybe an idiot, why did you not have the mare Luted when you knew what had happened? A 19 year old grade, in foal to random boy next door does not sound the best idea. 

Yes I realize what is done is done, and there is no changing it, but just irks me a little that 'idiot neighbor' seems to be given all the blame for this one.

Wish her all the best..


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Who knows? in day 304 pic she looks pregnant to me, in day 305 not so much, and in day 306 she looks pregnant again. Probably the way she is standing. I guess, if it were me, I would just treat her like she is and wait and see. I bet she is though.


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

Golden Horse said:


> At the risk of sounding harsh....although the neighbor maybe an idiot, why did you not have the mare Luted when you knew what had happened? A 19 year old grade, in foal to random boy next door does not sound the best idea.
> 
> Yes I realize what is done is done, and there is no changing it, but just irks me a little that 'idiot neighbor' seems to be given all the blame for this one.
> 
> Wish her all the best..


Sorry part of the story missing lol I call him an idiot because he had a colt over there that kept jumping out to be with my boys, every time he gets a new horse I put my mare in the corral where there are two pastures in between them until I know for sure he doesn't have a stud. So one day he brings this paint over i guess to keep the yearling company. I come home one day and my mare is not where she was supposed to be and some fence is broken. So I fix it and put her out with the boys, the neighbors have put up corral panels now to keep them from jumping into the big pasture with the boys so I'm confident they cant get over. About four months later he gets rid of both horses. About three months after that the paint is back but he has blood all down his back legs. So I go and tell the neighbor and he says, oh yeah, had him cut. So it all clicks and then I got my mare checked. At around that seven month spot . 
I only remeber breeding day because it was my brother in law's birthday and I had a cake in my hand when I went out there to see why she was out.
And he's a horse flipper.... Which I'm not too keen on...
But you're right. It's not ideal. But if I get a horse I keep it forever. I've had this mare 15 years now hahaha the boys are going on 12. 👍


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I also don't think she looks pregnant.... we will see!


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

This evening after I fed.
I'm mostly doing this thread for people with foal jitters. You don't really find anything from the early early stages of udder development. So if she is it I think it will be useful to others if not.... Maybe still so 😊 sorry the chickens are phsyco... Hahaha


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Sounds like you need a good vet to check her properly, rather than just posting pics here. If the foal did die & she aborted, would you have definitely found it in the paddock or could dogs or such have taken it?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

She doesn't look pregnant, but you say at some point you saw the foal moving? and it hasn't moved for a long time?

is it possible the foal has died , inside her? if so, would that be dangerous, meaning a difficult miscariage?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If going by eye than the thing to do is to stand behind and see how uneven her sides are. 

I don't think your vet is any good, in that at when palpitating a mare they go in through the anus to feel the uterus and most vets have there hands to at least elbow depth sometimes full length. 

She could well have aborted or reabsorbed.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Reabsorbed at 7 months?? I'm not experienced at all with breeding, but I would have thought that was way too late for that - would have thought if it died, either she aborted, or it putrefied inside her, in which case it will be poisoning her & she will very likely die too. Hence find a GOOD vet. Yesterday!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Since she's 19 and you've had her for 15 of those years, I'm going to say she's probably a maiden mare? Never had a foal before this one? So lack of a bag wouldn't necessarily be a sign that she's not in foal, they frequently don't drop their milk until they've foaled. She looks like she could still be pregnant, so I'd proceed as if she was. Either way, you probably have around a month before you'll know for sure. She could have aborted between 8-9 months, that's when the foal gets really active in there and could have gotten twisted up and died. If the foal was dead inside her, I would expect to be seeing green discharge from the infection it would cause. Has she had her vaccinations? If not, now is the time to do it so she has her immunity as high as it can be to pass on to the foal. 

I have a mare who is 311 days in foal today, maiden, and no udder development at all. She is confirmed in foal, visibly pregnant (small inside, she's HUGE) but her udders are still very flat. 

Personally, I would load her up and haul her to the OSU breeding farm and have her properly checked and you'd know for certain.


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## cbako01 (Oct 21, 2016)

I don't think she looks in foal and I'd be expecting some kind of udder development by this stage... Only other thing I could think of would be if the breeding dates are wrong? Which sounds like it could be a possibility. If she aborted after the 7 month stage, you should have found a dead foal in the pasture (unless dogs/other wildlife took it). 'Foal movemet' is often mistaken for general gut movement so is not a reliable indicator. An ultrasound at this stage probably won't show you much and a palpation should give you a much better picture- the foal should be 'right there' if she is past that 300 day mark. You can blood test and have her estrogen levels checked, I believe these are fairly accurate after 120 days, but palpation would probably be easier and cheaper with a much quicker turn around. As it stands, I would be quite surprised if this mare is still in-foal; she's certainly doing a good job of hiding it!


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

I've gone to checking her twice a day 🙈 I feel like a crazy person hahaha. This is her this morning. Her teats have really started to sag, still nothing huge like a milk up but definitely more stretched and rounder. I'm now going to include side udder pics and I may include evening and morning pics too. Because I'm crazy, but again, when I had questions I didn't find any pictures of udder development this early. 👍 The 208 picture is supposed to be a 308 lol


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

loosie said:


> Sounds like you need a good vet to check her properly, rather than just posting pics here. If the foal did die & she aborted, would you have definitely found it in the paddock or could dogs or such have taken it?


Dogs and things would have definitely run off with it. Nothing dead stays hurried or laying for long around here. She seems to be developing an udder now. But I'm going to be guarded until I see any real change.


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> She doesn't look pregnant, but you say at some point you saw the foal moving? and it hasn't moved for a long time?
> 
> is it possible the foal has died , inside her? if so, would that be dangerous, meaning a difficult miscariage?


I would think more of the lines of she aborted it than it was still in there. She has no fever, no discharge, no signs at all of carrying a dead fetus around.


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Since she's 19 and you've had her for 15 of those years, I'm going to say she's probably a maiden mare? Never had a foal before this one? So lack of a bag wouldn't necessarily be a sign that she's not in foal, they frequently don't drop their milk until they've foaled. She looks like she could still be pregnant, so I'd proceed as if she was. Either way, you probably have around a month before you'll know for sure. She could have aborted between 8-9 months, that's when the foal gets really active in there and could have gotten twisted up and died. If the foal was dead inside her, I would expect to be seeing green discharge from the infection it would cause. Has she had her vaccinations? If not, now is the time to do it so she has her immunity as high as it can be to pass on to the foal.
> 
> I have a mare who is 311 days in foal today, maiden, and no udder development at all. She is confirmed in foal, visibly pregnant (small inside, she's HUGE) but her udders are still very flat.
> 
> Personally, I would load her up and haul her to the OSU breeding farm and have her properly checked and you'd know for certain.


She is maiden, this would be her first ever. Vaccines are scheduled for Saturday, same ole cow vet doing them. She is physically fine. I take her temp every night and check her parts too. She shows zero signs of an infection. She is her same ole spunky self. Gives the boys hell everyday like always. 
If it is still kicking I probably just can't tell. I usually tie her up after feeding and watch her belly. But she sighs, or catches a wif of something and has to sniff the air, or the boys are up there in her face making her do the mean mare face, even though she will stand board still for hours her belly is never still because she does all that mess. At this point it would be a hard kick down I know so maybe it is a night owl. IDK. 
Last time I felt it up in that hollow space in front of her leg and it was a tiny something basically poking my hand and doing a few downward kicks. That was about midnight when I saw it. Maybe I'll try catching her up late tonight and see if it's moving. Of course if she holding it that tight the little booger doesn't have much more room to move. 
I uploaded more udder pics. They are getting saggier. 👍 I'll see about that vet. A long haul up to OSU is not something I think would be good for her. Especially not knowing for sure.


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

cbako01 said:


> I don't think she looks in foal and I'd be expecting some kind of udder development by this stage... Only other thing I could think of would be if the breeding dates are wrong? Which sounds like it could be a possibility. If she aborted after the 7 month stage, you should have found a dead foal in the pasture (unless dogs/other wildlife took it). 'Foal movemet' is often mistaken for general gut movement so is not a reliable indicator. An ultrasound at this stage probably won't show you much and a palpation should give you a much better picture- the foal should be 'right there' if she is past that 300 day mark. You can blood test and have her estrogen levels checked, I believe these are fairly accurate after 120 days, but palpation would probably be easier and cheaper with a much quicker turn around. As it stands, I would be quite surprised if this mare is still in-foal; she's certainly doing a good job of hiding it!


She's always been a very muscular girl. She's also always kept her figure hahaha I suppose is the TB in her. I'll have the equine vet come out I guess. His farm fee is just freaking outrageous. But I guess that's better than nothing! I'll call him and see what he can do.


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## cbako01 (Oct 21, 2016)

SouthernPines said:


> She's always been a very muscular girl. She's also always kept her figure hahaha I suppose is the TB in her. I'll have the equine vet come out I guess. His farm fee is just freaking outrageous. But I guess that's better than nothing! I'll call him and see what he can do.


I've attached a picture (apologizes for the quality! I only had my phone and it was a very foggy/misty day) of my WB x TB mare just prior to foaling, I think she foaled four-five days later, as a comparison- she was a maiden mare, didn't really look overly pregnant, especially in those last few days once the foal has changed position. She had already had a pretty decent bag at this point, and had obvious development in that area roughly a month prior to foaling- unfortunately I don't have any photos of that >.< I've seen mares look like yours, who have gone on to foal healthy babies, but it is usually accompanied by more significant bag development. However, it could just be your breeding dates where slightly wrong, she may go over the average 'due date' of 342 days or she may bag up quickly. One thing I do know about breeding, is there is little rhyme or reason to the things mares do  I keep um-ing and ah-ing over those last pictures you posted, I can't decided whether her bag has changed at all. Keep tabs on it over the next few days and it may be easier to pick a difference. A palpation from the equine vet will give you the 'quickest' answer as to 'is she or isn't she' or the other option is to get her vaccinations done and then wait and see.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If the foal had died at that later age and remained inside her she'd probably be dead herself by now.
If she'd aborted and you check her regularly, even if you missed the remains you'd see some signs of the fluids in her tail and on her back legs.
I wouldn't want to trust that vet as an ELISA test will give a correct result up to a couple of weeks before foaling. He also didn't use the correct method to check manually. 
Its very easy to confuse foal movement with gut movement so I wouldn't rely on that.
The mare certainly doesn't look in foal - I've known a couple of people who unknowingly bought in foal mares and hunted them all season so they were really fit and muscled but they still looked like they'd gained a lot of weight - it just didn't 'hang' in the way an unworked mare's 'baby bump' does.
Its possible that she's never been pregnant and the milk is just a phantom pregnancy symptom from being so close to stallions - I had a mare lactating like a dairy cow all last year and knew for a fact that she'd never been near a stallion. We still don't know why she did it but it just stopped.
Mares surprise us all the time so she could well produce a foal - if it was me I'd have that test done or get the horse vet out with his ultra-sound machine so I was either prepared or could put it out of my mind


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

@cbako01 she looks pretty chunky there!! I'll just have to bite the farm charge. Yikes. Hahaha got some bills to pay so it may be a hot minute before I can have Mr big shot come out.


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

@jaydee that would be like her.... She likes to milk all the extra she can get. The toot.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Has she had her shots? Is she getting correct nutrition/adequate supplements to support a growing foal without sapping it from her? Are you on the books of 'Mr big shot' & alerted him to the (possibly) impending foal, to be able to get him out at a minute's notice, in case of emergency at least? Do you have the facilities(& funds) to look after mare & foal intensively if necessary? Just sounds rather too... lackadaisical for my liking.


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## SouthernPines (Feb 13, 2014)

She is healthy. She is fine. Foal or not. She is cared for appropriately. Right now that means as if she is still in foal. I already mentioned I'll have the horse vet out when I can afford his farm fee. It just isn't in the budget right now and I'm not taking it out of the emergency fund because this is not an emergency.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

To me she doesn't look pregnant ... but then I've only had a single pregnant mare experience and she hid it very well for nearly the entire time. Mirage was slim until the tenth month, when she suddenly swelled up like a balloon nearly overnight and looked miserable for the next 3 weeks until she foaled 4 days early. We think it was because she just couldn't hold Phoenix inside her any longer lol. The pictures below say it all - the first is at month 10. The second is from 15 days later. The look on her face says it all lol. And at the bottom is a picture of her colt Phoenix. : )

-- Kai


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

SouthernPines said:


> She is healthy. She is fine. Foal or not. She is cared for appropriately. Right now that means as if she is still in foal. I already mentioned I'll have the horse vet out when I can afford his farm fee. It just isn't in the budget right now and I'm not taking it out of the emergency fund because this is not an emergency.


Cool then. Glad to hear you're all in order. Just in saying you couldn't afford the vet, hadn't had proper checks done, thought it best to ask as some people have such a 'she'll be right mate' attitude about it & aren't prepared. If you suspected a problem, I would absolutely consider that an emergency though. If you wait till the last minute, you could find he's unavailable, not taking new clients or some such, which is why I'd speak to him & get on his books ASAP.


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## ThoroughbredBug (Jan 18, 2017)

Personally I'd agree with loosie's last statement: At least phone him, leave a message or something with a quick "hi i'm [name and can be reached at -phone number-]. I have a most likely pregnant mare on my hands. Wondering what xyz would cost or, if she's seemingly plenty healthy and I've got stuff under control, I'm wondering if you would be okay with me using you as an emergency vet just in case delivery doesn't go well and I need some help."

Most vets (at least where I live) are more than happy to do a quick 15 minute phone call to go over things when the owner doesn't feel a farm visit or hauling is necessary or isn't able to. It's usually free of charge, although some ask about half their normal farm call fee for the consultation. Definitely couldn't hurt to ring him and see. Hope all goes well, and keep up posted!


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I'd go get the vacs and give them myself.
Also, since I am a worrywart, I'd have milk replacer on hand...just in case.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

One of my ewes had twins, one was delivered perfectly normally, she never delivered the placenta and the next day slowly passed a dead fetus. She was fine, live lamb was fine. Fetus was mostly developed and had mummified vs rotting in the uterus, aside from labor halting before she was done it was as if she delivered 2 live lambs. Now obviously a very random occurrence and I was very lucky that she did not abort both lambs, or get sick and die even. NO indication until she didn't finish lambing, we even assumed she was just holding the placenta up until we saw feet.

Now obviously not only very odd in an ewe but I'm guessing even more unusual in a horse, but I would assume it's still POSSIBLE that it may be inside her without being alive or making her ill.

Anyways, sounds like the OP has a good game plan.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Only in one of those pictures did she look like she might be pregnant to me. As for the milk, my maiden mare (I think she was maiden - she was carrying a mule baby when I got her) never did sack up until the day the cutest little mule I ever did see came out.

My other mare (Riley was her 5th baby) did sack up. The walking horse mare (the maiden one) never really looked all that huge or pregnant. She was really thin when I got her though so I had to put a lot of groceries in her. My other mare looked like a big fat pregnant horse.

It's going to be hard to tell w/out a vet opinion...


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

To me, she doesn't look 305+ days in those photos. Are you sure you have the date correct that she was last covered? That said, we have 7 broodmares on property right now, only 2 look noticeably pregnant (all due around same time). Some maidens, some not. My mare that is 318 days today had zero udder at all until this evening, she is a maiden. Some mares won't bag up until they're ready to foal. 

And agree with others above, I would at the very least give a call to the horse vet and introduce yourself/give a heads up and see if he's available for you in the event of an emergency. And get her vaccines done asap IMHO. And worm her in the next few weeks as well.


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

oops just noticed the last reply on this was a couple weeks ago. Sorry. Returning member not paying attention lol

Hope things are working out!


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