# Have had boarders horse for a year with ZERO payment & now they want horse!!



## TessaMay

See if you can find a lawyer who has experience with equine and livestock law. It may be that you do have a right to the horse, but I really couldn't say. You do have a right to keep people off your property though. I wouldn't be letting the owner or anyone else on the property until the bill is paid in full. Send her written notice of this. Also, if it does go to court, you will probably want to contact her pervious barn for whatever records they have on her not paying. 

If you have gated property, lock it and call the police if anyone tries to come onto the property. If not and you can put up a gate, I would do so right away.


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## BobbieJo81

Thank you, I do have a gate, but also have neighbors with a right-of-way through my property so it is almost impossible to keep locked without giving them all a key.. I do have security cameras, everything is posted, etc.. I do have another farm 5 miles away that is for horses that I am training and although it was never brought up about moving or not moving him there...wondering if I should move him there just in case someone shows up when I am not home( that would be rarely if ever though)..Im just at a loss.. I have tried locating an equine attorney, there are none in my area, the only reson I got the answers I did from the attorney I did contact is that she and I went to college together and she did a lot of research into it for me ..


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## farmpony84

It depends on where you live. I think here, after three months w/out board the horse can be sold for the money back.

I had someone drop a horse off with me several years ago. After about a year I ran an add in the paper that basically said something like...

To whom it may concern, 

The black paso fino gelding that was dropped off at my property on such and such date will be sold on this date if you do not claim him or something to that affect, I can remember exactly.

After the ad ran for a week, I sold it to a neighbor for $1. It was a very sweet gelding and the older gentleman that took him on really took good care of him...


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## BobbieJo81

I keep finding info that almost always states 3 months, but so far have had zero luck finding anything specific to WV.. I really dont mind keeping him here, like I said my daughter loves him, and he is a great horse for her to start out on.. I just dont want it to seem like I am guilty of what she is claiming "that I offered to board him knowing that she was in a bad way financially, just to get a 'free' horse out of the deal".. I guess it would be best for me, if she were to just say 'keep him for the money I owe you" but I know that her intetntions are to sell him and not pay me from that money like she has claimed, how could she when she has told me that they dont have a car, neither are working and she said she is selling him for 600 or 700$ and owes me 1,000$..I dont know, Im just at a loss..I should have known better than to be nice, somehow it always bites me in the butt


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## Saddlebag

In Ontario, the moment board is overdue, there is an automatic lien on the horse. The owner can't just come and remove it from the property unless money owing is paid in full. In Ontario the law is the Innkeeper's Act. Some may find it under Stablemen's Act, Warehouseman's Lien or Mechanic's Lien. Check your state laws. If you can't find it call your county extension agent. Move the horse to your other property.


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## RedTree

I've never been in a situation like this, but couldn't you, if a potential buyer came and picked him up ask them for the cash upfront? 
That way she doesn't get it?

I don't know if that would work and it may just get you in a heap more trouble.... But food for thought I guess


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/lien/wv_lien.htm

WV lien laws. 

What I have done in the past is to send a demand letter, registered mail, return receipt required AND sent one just regular mail. Notify them that they must pay in full before the animal can leave the property and if not paid in full by XX date, then you will file in Small Claims Court. Once that date comes, you go down, fill out all the paperwork and file in Small Claims. It'll cost you about $100. Keep track of all the money spent trying to collect this debt because if you go to court, you'll add that to the money owed. On the court date, you make sure you show up, she probably won't, and the judge will probably give you an award of the animal making you the new legal owner. If your state requires it, you may have to sell the animal at public auction to try to get the money to settle the bill. In the states I've lived in, you had to give the old owner any amount in excess of the bill, if the horse brought in more than what was owed. Chances are, she'll either sign over the horse or pay up as soon as she's served with a notice to appear in court. 

Just read that law section I linked for you, and do exactly what it says to notify her of your intent to collect on the bill. Print out and keep every bit of correspondence you have with her re: boarding that horse. Gather up every receipt you can for the expenses you've had for feed, farrier, vet, etc. Make a list of all expenses and list every time she's dropped off hay, grain or paid an $$ for a service. Keep every receipt of your expenses for filing and notifying her of your intent to collect. It's a PITA to have to do this, hopefully she'll just sign the horse over.


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## Clayton Taffy

You do not have to let anyone on your property for any reason.

Do not let anyone on your property to see that horse, not even the person that abandoned it.

Put up a gate on your driveway if need be, than if they open the gate and come in it is easier to prove trespass


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## MissingStar

OP, you would not be getting this horse for free. You have already put $1,000 into an animal the owner wants to sell for $600-700.

Under the circumstances, you have every right to put an agister's lien on this horse. You may wish to keep this animal as payment in full. However, your state laws might require it to be sold at public auction, so you will need to take advice on this.

I would definitely move the horse to your other property. Take pictures to show how much better he looks under your care. If you haven't already done so, write to her threatening court action (regardless of whether or not you choose to go down this route). Make this horse not worth the hassle for her.

Your attorney stressed that you should let the horse go, if the owner arrives to claim it back. If she does, I would ensure she signed a statement acknowledging the money owed beforehand. I know you don't feel that pursuing this in small claims court is worthwhile, but if the horse leaves your property it may be your only option.


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## beau159

This is a perfect example of always get everything in writing. 

Good luck. Hope she just gives you the horse and is done with it. 

You certainly don't owe her a penny. If you dropped your dog off at a boarding facility and didn't pay, you'd be getting sued. This situation shouldn't be any different. It's her horse and her expenses and you need to do what you need to do, to get reimbursed.


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## DuckDodgers

Get a combination lock and put it on your gate. Give the combination to your neighbors and tell them that they are NOT to give out the combination without your permission due to the ongoing issues. The threat of legal action will probably get her to sign the horse over, and make sure she is well aware of the fact that getting a pass on her $1000 bill is a much better deal than getting $700 for the horse + legal action. 

It's good that you have kept records of all money spent on the horse, but do get everything in writing next time! If there is a next time, anyway...


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## PrivatePilot

And on top of all the advice above, make sure those security cameras as not only working and pointed in useful directions, but adequate signage pointing out their presence is visible. 

At that point, Anyone with any scruples wouldn't venture into the property without talking to the owners first, much less come onto the property, take a horse from your paddock, and load it. 

Chances are the person who "bought" the horse doesn't know the backstory. When he/she shows up you'll have your opportunity to explain the situation to them, and again...assuming they are reasonable people, they'll probably walk away from the deal and tell the seller to get her act in order. 

Of course, if the owner of the horse just keeps trying to sell regardless you may have to go through that process a few times, but it'll buy you time to take action from the legal side (or convince the owner she's reached the end of her rope and give up on trying) and eventually the problem may go away.


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## Red Gate Farm

As well as all the great advice with registered letters and such, move the horse to your other property.

You've already said you cannot lock the gate and you are not always there. If they come when you aren't there and load up the horse and drive away, you will have to go through the court process and probably end up spending more just to make your point. Plus, she'll never pay you, and you've lost the horse.

If you move the horse (I'm assuming she doesn't know you have another property or doesn't know where it is), you have a better chance of holding onto it until the amount is paid up. Or legally owning the horse.


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## DuckDodgers

I could see legal issues arising from moving a horse that she does not technically own at this point. While she is probably entitled to ownership at this point, she has not gone through the proper procedures to get the horse in her name. This is why I think that putting a combination lock on all gates and notifying the relevant parties of the combination and situation is a better idea. This way the lady or "buyers" can't get the horse off of the property, but the lady can't go around saying that her horse was stolen and moved without her permission. I'd also leave a note on the locked gate explaining the situation on the off chance that said buyers came to pick up the horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal

This is easy:
Cost of removing said horse = 
$ALL board for the past year 
+ $Your monthly care 
+ cost of ALL feed and supplements 
+ $All Vet bills

I am sure that the TOTAL will be more than the ex-boarder wants to pay. Get an attorney. This is a case of abandoned property and there are statues of time limitation that apply to it. The only cases where there is NO statue of limitation is murder.


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## BobbieJo81

First, I want to thank everyone for all of the great advice.. I did talk to a local woman that has ran a boarding barn for years, and she sent me the same link about WV Lien laws that was posted in an earlier comment(thank you for that btw) ..I forwarded this my attorney, she read over it, stated that even though it is an old law(and the reason that she couldnt find it) it is still a law in WV and that I have every right to keep the horse from leaving the property...that eased my mind a great deal.. She advised me to once again give the 'owner' (and I use the term loosely considering her actions) but anyways, to put her on notice of the exact amoount that she owes, that I am putting a lien on the horse and that he will not be leaving the farm under any circumstances with anyone unless his bill is paid in full.. I know that she does not have the money, especially not with having him posted at 700$, probably taking the first 500-600$ that comes along and owing me almost double that.. So as of right now, I am just waiting to see if she messages me back.. I am going to send her a certified letter with all of the same info that was in the message she received today..I am still not comfortable enough to move him to the other farm..I did however move him to a back pasture (the other pasture can be accessed without even coming fully up my driveway and is not in full view of the house) so that someone would have to walk past my house to get anywhere near the field he is in.. I have put my neighbors on alert, sent them pictures of the lady, told them that if ANY vehicles came up and looked the least bit fishy to call the police.. I also posted more no trespassing signs, replaced all the security camera batteries and have been leaving my 2 large dogs ( a Boxer and a Pitty) outside when I am not home..I have debated on locking him in his stall when I am not home, but I get scared thinking about all the what-ifs if something were to happen..fire, him get cast, etc..
So that is where I stand as of right now..As far as I have been able to find out, I am not required to sell him to recoup my losses, which is fine by me..esp with the way good horses are ending up at stock sales left and right.. I am however secretly hoping that the "buyers" show up, so that I can let them know the situation, I would love to prevent her from dragging my name through the mud over this, really dont think she has the influence to affect my training business, but ya know:/
I will keep everyone updated, plan on spending tomorrow finishing up all of the legal paperwork that I need to do, making copies of receipts, etc.. Please feel free to post any more ideas, comments etc..super happy to have found such a great group of people <3


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## thetempest89

I hope she doesn't give you anymore trouble.

I just don't understand people if they cannot afford to keep their horse don't be selfish. Here it's a good community of horse people and rescues, somebody would take them in.

I've seen situations where the person has been so selfish their horses were starved to the point of organ failure and had to be put down when rescued. I just don't get people. 

He sounds like he's in way better hands with you anyways. Sorry you've had to go through this.


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## Lexiie

I agree with the others telling you to move the horse...
We had boarders come and steal "their" four horses in the middle of the night.
We have no idea where they went, but they owe the BO thousands...


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## Saddlebag

In Ontario the horse must be sold at a public auction. Reasonable expenses can be claimed. You cannot just keep the horse and sell it privately. I don't think the judge can turn ownership over to you so you are in the position of having nothing to validate that you own the horse. The law is written this way to protect both parties. As previously mentioned, any money, if there is any, (lawyer, trailering, etc) is to go to the owner. If you cannot retrieve your expenses, then you can take it to small claims. Most judges don't like to see someone left holding the bag for someone else's animals.


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## Yogiwick

No idea how sketchy this lady is... Just be careful if you move him and she comes while you aren't around and decides to get you back... Could get very messy.


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## Corporal

Here is something that you CAN do, and SHOULD do, anyway. Get chains for your gates both at the connections to the posts and where you chain them shut and put locks on them. I bought combination locks in sets with the same combo. Keyed locks are fine, too, just my personal preference. I started doing this several years ago when people were stealing horses from pastures to ship them for meat in Europe. Yes, a bolt cutter will cut the chains but it is a deterrant. Mostly I am deterring teenagers from mischief.


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## Zexious

Something similar happened at a barn I was boarding at here in CO. A woman had two horses, told the BOs that she was short on cash--they said they would work with her. She tried to sell one of them (for super cheap, essentially just checking up on board) and it didn't work.

She just stopped showing up and responding to messages. After a few months (as per the state of Colorado) the horses belonged to the barn owners, and they sold both the horses as collateral. 

I hope this works out for you! It bites that you get the short end of the stick for being a good person...


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## Saddlebag

When it comes to boarding animals, it must remain strictly business as it invariably comes back to bite you. We've heard countless tales of woe from others who were kindly and wound up taking a sh*t kicking. Always, always, get everything in writing and signed. Judges like to see ink on paper, not "he said, she said".


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## BobbieJo81

Just wanted to let everyone know how things have worked out so far(and I think for good) ..I sent her an 'invoice' of all monies owed via certified mail and email, she accepted the certified letter and checked the email although she never responded to either. I put in the letter that she had 15 days from the date of the letter to either sign him over or pay bill in full and pick him up. She has done neither , but as far as I am concerned, Im done offering solutions. I will not work with her or release him. My county court house told me that I would have to pay close to 300$ to file everything needed for a lien, but the way the law is wrote , the lien is automatic once bill becomes past due, so Im leaving that be for now. If anything else comes up or happens, I will update everyone, but I have a feeling I will not hear from her ever again .. thanks again everyone, couldnt have gotten this far without ya'lls help


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## BobbieJo81

@Corporal I wish I had that option  Because of having neighbors that essentially have a lot in the middle of my farm with a legal right of way through my property , I cant "block" their access point. And they are the type that wouldnt/couldnt be bothered to lock it behind them, they are more the type to cut the locks off(even if they had a key) just to avoid getting their lazy behinds out and opening and closing a gate..that is with the exception of one of them, and she is so old that I would feel bad for making her..


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## PrivatePilot

Post a picture of the horse here in this thread. If things ever do go sour somehow (she comes and effectively steals him in the night, or something) you have photographic evidence of what the horse looked like, as well as the entire story, your details, and now the follow-up nicely archived here in this thread.

A little feather in your hat from an evidence standpoint is what I'm thinking.


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## Rocco boy

Fairly sure irregardless of contracts, no one can entr your property without your permission that is trespassing.
I would have the horse looked at by your local animal welfare group to cover that issue for starters this shows you are not in the matter for personal gain, rather that you are genuinely concerned for the welfare of the horse and the owners inadequacy to care for the animal.
The money I would see as a completely seperate issue, and I think this is what your legal advisor is meaning by "don't try to hold on to the horse". Unfortunately even though the money in question was spent on the neglected animal it is still the original owners "property" (for lack of a better word). Money issues as such need to be treated as a normal legal issue would be if say someone loaned someone money and the reciever of he loan did not make the required repayments.

It's rough that your generosity has been taken advantage of, however it is clear you have learned from this experience and at least you can benifit in that way.

Another quick note:
The text messages may be of value or they may not, have your attorney or legal advisory look over them to make sure they are clear cut and not in any way ambiguous. If you do go to court TRY to make your account of the story detached as possible you want a fact related account of the matter not a relational one as the evidence is already a little blurred without the contract and if you go in with a "personal emotional" account things will probably not lean in your favour. Stick to the facts alone as you appear to be in the right on this one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rocco boy

Afterthought: details details details. When did she drop off food, how much? What promises were made and are they in writing? Photos of the animal in question. How often did she maintain contact and most importantly receipts or evidence of the money you have spent.
All very important sit down gather as many of these facts and evidence of them you can!!!! And In turn you strengthen your case immensely!! Goodluck !!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chasin Ponies

BobbieJo81 said:


> I keep finding info that almost always states 3 months, but so far have had zero luck finding anything specific to WV.. I really dont mind keeping him here, like I said my daughter loves him, and he is a great horse for her to start out on.. I just dont want it to seem like I am guilty of what she is claiming "that I offered to board him knowing that she was in a bad way financially, just to get a 'free' horse out of the deal".. I guess it would be best for me, if she were to just say 'keep him for the money I owe you" but I know that her intetntions are to sell him and not pay me from that money like she has claimed, how could she when she has told me that they dont have a car, neither are working and she said she is selling him for 600 or 700$ and owes me 1,000$..I dont know, Im just at a loss..I should have known better than to be nice, somehow it always bites me in the butt


 Yes, being too nice got you in this mess so it's time to buck up and get tough. Ignore any contact from her and let her make the next move, she may very well let this whole thing go. I'd also move him to the other stable as long as you can control the situation there.
Most states have what is called a "mechanic's lien" where a garage can take possession of a vehicle for non payment and I have seen this very same law used for horses too.
She knows you are a nice person and are feeling badly about this (which you shouldn't!) and she's taking advantage of that fact.


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## Red Gate Farm

Any further updates on this? It's been 4 months.


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## 3ringburner

Any updates!!??


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## stevenson

just because you have not heard from her does not mean it is over. I had a similar situation, and after the old owner threatened me repeatedly with law suits, animal control that I was abusing the horses because the farrier was on vacation so the feet were overdue, the horses were on pasture and out in the sun.. no kidding, pastures dont grow in shade, and yes there is an area they could come stand under shade if the horse chose. 
She finally just signed the horse over , i put in it, she gave me the Horse with no conditions or stipulations . This went on for almost a year . She was a loon , and I would have preferred the money I was out for feed, faccines, wormers, farrier etc. . I really did not want the horse


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## BobbieJo81

Hi everyone--sorry for the vanishing act..My laptop crashed and I lost all of my saved account names and p/w and just now got around to getting everything back..

I did want to update everyone though, especially since ya'll were kind enough to support me through out the entire ordeal. I mentioned that I sent her a certified letter and all that and had never heard back. About 10 days after her '15 days to reply' , she posted in several Facebook groups that I had stolen her horse and was refusing to give him back over $20 that she owed me (Its okay to LOL here..bc I did)... I had several other horse people defend me before I ever saw the posts, but in reply I only posted pictures of receipts and of the certified letter. She deleted the posts almost immediately and that was the last I have heard from her. But unfortunately, the story does not have a happy ending...
When she first contacted me, when she was trying to sell him to me, she said that he was 5 years old. After she dropped him off, I never questioned it as he started gaining weight almost immediately and looked like a new horse within 6 months However, this past fall he started loosing weight so we had the vet out to float his teeth and do a general checkup to make sure nothing was wrong. When floating his teeth, my vet determined that instead of 5 years old, he was more like 25 years old; and that he had apparently been on the edge of starvation for an extended period of time before she dropped him here as his kidneys were not functioning at full strength. He fought like a champ to live and despite all the love in the world and around the clock vet care, he lost the fight 2 days before Christmas. We all miss him terribly, my daughter took it the hardest unfortunately. I had a lovely lady make her a bracelet out of his tail hair and she also made her 2 bridle clips so that when she is ready to get another horse, she can always have him with her. As soon as I get pictures over to the new computer, I will share some pictures for anyone that is interested. He was such a sweet boy, and although we would give anything to have him back with us, I take some comfort in knowing he had a couple amazing years here with us.


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## Chevaux

Thank you for the update, BobbieJo. I am sorry it ended as it did however, you are right, at least he had a couple of years in a good home.


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## Jumping4Joy

I am so sorry for your loss. It is nice to know that there are kind people like you in the world, and I think it was extremely wonderful of you to show that poor horse true love and affection during his final few months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag

In case you allow your heart to rule your head again, have a contract signed by boarder. Now, what many don't realize is that the moment board is overdue, money owing, the BO has an automatic lien on the horse. In ON, and many states are similar, a registered letter must be sent stating amount owing. Also an ad under legal notices must be put in the local most commonly read newspaper stating the commonly known name of the animal, the owner's name and how much is owing. Sometimes that shames them in to paying. Next step, if no payment, horse goes to an auction as it can't be sold privately or kept. If the horse sells for more than owing, reasonable expenses can be claimed and the remainder must be given to the owner. Without payment in full to the BO the owner cannot remove the animal.


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## Red Gate Farm

I am so sorry about the loss of this gallant old boy. I'm glad his last years were with you.


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## Corporal

I am sorry for your loss. What a shame, but you are an angel for caring for him in his last days.

DH and DD are both attorneys, so we talk about many areas of law, including cases like this.The remedy is a lawsuit. Just bc there are so many frivolous lawsuits that occur doesn't mean that lawsuits are all illegitimate. This would be brought to small claims court, so I would have charged for absolutely every hour that you spent caring for this property.
Decide how much this piece of property, this horse, is worth to you before you begin. Then, contact an TRIAL attorney and find out how $much it will cost you to proceed. In the meantime, contact the police is she trespasses on your property to claim the horse.
I imagine that a letter from a lawyer may be all you would have had to send her to discourage her, but I read that you did take action.
Many BO's have factored abandonment and restitution into their contracts. It is, unfortunately, common for people to abandon horses, especially if it is a pleasure stable and not a high end show stable. That is bc at a high end show stable there is often a buyer waiting if someone gives up showing.
In the meantime, PLEASE learn how to read teeth before you BUY an old horse, expecting a younger one!! I would have looked at those teeth and known that this horse wasn't 5yo.
Again, sorry for your loss. It doesn't matter how long you care for an animal. When they pass, it just hurts.


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## stevenson

Sorry for your loss. At least you gave him a good life and some kindness before he passed.
There are so many dishonest people around horses any more.
My DH wants to board horses when he retires, and I will do background checks on people that want to board here. I am out of the way of most people, and do not want a party barn. 
I will have in the contract after 60 days of non payment the horse will be auto signed over to me . It will be a seperate form signed and notarized. There will also be a $50.00 fee for non payment. I think that is what is required by law, I would need to go look at the law again..


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