# Bitting strong but sensitive mouthed horse



## heyitsrach (May 22, 2016)

Sorry if I've posted this in the wrong place - I'm new and have only halfway figured out how to post correctly!
Anyways, I've been thinking about changing my horse's bit recently, and I'm looking into it now. We do English, saddleseat to be exact and show in snaffles, not weymouths (we're in a lower level). Anyways, my horse is very, very energetic being the saddlebred he is, and I wouldn't consider going bitless because of that. He is so energetic that he hates to walk and will occasionally leap or flat out start running off because he can't sit still to walk for five minutes (once we get trotting or cantering we're fine). He's leapt flat out across the ring with me and has run off with multiple riders. He gets worked nearly every day with someone except for one or two days out of the week, so I couldn't imagine he needs even more work than that. He gets even more tense with pressure on the bit, so I have tried loosening my rein at the walk or when he is being good at other gaits. He more or less calms down enough to stay walking when I loosen the rein, but too fast of a change and he's squirrelly again. I've figured out he's sensitive in the mouth (very) and can't take loads of pressure of the bit, or it causes him to get even more squirrelly. I can't go bitless though - he's far too energetic for it and I wouldn't have any control to stop him, and I couldn't show in that anyways. So, what tips do you all recommend for both getting him to contently flat walk, and finding the right bit? It can't be mild enough that I don't have any control yet it can't be anything that would put too much pressure on his mouth. *sigh* Anyone else have a horse like this? He's not spooky, and is pretty darn confident. He just has a ton of motor. Also, turnout sadly isn't an option right now at my barn, as much as I'd like that.


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## celestejasper13 (May 16, 2014)

Acceptance of the contact is something that has to be taught - usually, a horse that is described as 'sensitive in the mouth' is just a horse that either doesn't know how to respond to rein pressure, or is refusing to. 
It may just be that he is ill-mannered and doesn't want to walk, he'd rather run off, and doesn't appreciate the feeling of you taking control (hence the tensing up when he feels rein contact). 
Unless the mouthpiece you have on your current bit is causing him discomfort, then changing the bit is unlikely to solve this and he needs a bit of training. My only suggestion is that some horses go well in a happy mouth bit with a rubber mouthpiece.

As far as training goes, I've worked with horses very evasive of the contact and this is what has worked for me: 
Make sure he can stop off aids from your seat and legs before you even think about touching the reins. Many horses become sour about the contact through overuse of the reins - rein pressure is just a back up to your seat and legs when stopping and turning. It sounds counter-intuitive, but when he is comfortable and controlled stopping with very little rein contact, that's when you should pick up the reins. 
Once you start working with the contact, start asking for bend and flexion rather than just backwards pressure. If he's walking and he jets a little jiggy or tries to take off, turn him in a tight circle rather than pulling back. Shows are exciting and it's better to keep him focused by circling, rather than getting in a fight with him.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

It's tricky with very hot, energetic horses as you know. There has to be a balance between keeping the horse at a speed you want versus trapping the energy too much and having the horse unable to stand that mentally and exploding.

In this journal, Bondre talks about how we need to teach horses how to come down from excitement, and I think that's very important too.
http://www.horseforum.com/member-journals/macarena-flamenca-2015-a-536297/page30/
But this is a slow process to teach horses, some take a long time to learn it. In my experience you can't take a very hot horse and just ask them to stand still for a period of time. Sometimes circling the horse will work, but if they are not going anywhere or doing what they perceive as "working," this will often frustrate them to the point where they ramp up the energy and get explosive. Backing up is also usually not a good idea. If the horse gets super frustrated and "stuck," they will often kick out, leap up and down, rear up, or teach themselves otherwise undesirable behavior (such as leaping off with riders, as your horse has). 

Instead, I focus on the balance of letting out energy, and then asking them to do something more calm such as walking for a period of time. Then let out more energy. Sometimes you need to exercise the horse by letting them trot and canter around for awhile before asking them to focus and work on something. 

What I think you need to determine is if the horse has a bit that is too mild so it is not overcoming their mental energy (they are able to ignore it), versus the bit is causing too much discomfort which is making their excitement level worse. You don't say what type of mouthpiece you are using now. Also be absolutely sure your horse does not have dental issues, and that the teeth have been floated recently (in the past year). 

So you could try going down to a very mild bit such as a double jointed snaffle or even a mullen mouth. If the horse pushes and plows through those, then you could try a different route which is going to a mouthpiece which the horse has to pay more attention to and can't lean on such as a waterford. I have not used a waterford myself, but have ordered one recently to try for my hot horse. So far I have not been able to get her safely controllable in a more gentle snaffle mouthpiece, when she is excited. We can go in a snaffle in an arena or around the farm, but I've had to use a leverage bit when out galloping.

I know the feeling of when a horse has been trained to go in a snaffle but learns they can push through when excited. You can take them back down to only slow work and get them respectful again, but they will always remember that when they are excited again. It's a mental energy thing, because some hot horses will become a little difficult to stop but you just have to be more firm and remind them. Others have too much drive, and will override you sometimes until they have a bit they respect.

I do believe there are some horses that are too hot to live in a situation where they are stalled with no turnout, if you expect to use them. I don't think my mare would be rideable if she were kept in, and my friend's TB bucked all her riders off until she came to our place and was turned out full time and galloped regularly. It took her awhile to straighten out her sore body...one hip was sore from turning and leaning one way in her stall.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

gottatrot said:


> If the horse pushes and plows through those, then you could try a different route which is going to a mouthpiece which the horse has to pay more attention to and can't lean on such as a waterford. I have not used a waterford myself, but have ordered one recently to try for my hot horse.


I just got a Waterford for my gelding!

My gelding is quite nervous and flighty for a myriad of reasons, and tends to use the bit as a "reason" to tense up. 
It's actually quite intriguing - however loose [or solid] his bit is, that's how loose/solid his body will be in that bit, even without rein contact/pressure.

For him, the more solid [tense] his body is, the higher his stress/anxiety level is. 
And, due to a muscular disorder he has, the higher his stress level goes, the more he loses mental control over his muscles/actions [to a certain extent, it's not quite as crazy as that description makes it sound...but that's essentially what happens].

SO, for him, a Waterford is perfect because there aren't fixed pieces and nothing for him to tense up against and I get extra control for those moments when he loses his mind. :lol:

He's seemed a little shocked each time I've gotten on his back while he's wearing the Waterford - he looks for bit tension, he tries to find something to tense up against, but there's nothing there and I can only describe his reaction as "wait, we can ride like this? This is riding?? What? Wait, I don't get it. Is there a bit in my mouth? Yes, but it's not tense..hold on...." and so forth. :rofl:


The one thing about the Waterford though, you have to be SUPER careful with your hands. 
If your hands aren't educated enough to deal with it, it's easy to make a bit evasion issue sooo much worse.

My gelding works off leg really well and I have relatively stable hands, so I feel ok using a Waterford on him.
But I really feel like most problems should be solved before coming to the Waterford [or, at least, you have 75% control over your horse first]. 
I don't know what your level is, OP, and maybe you're completely there and would be fine using a Waterford. 
I just want to make sure I don't sound like I'm condoning the Waterford for use in every nervous-horse situation, because I most certainly am not. 


Prior to the Waterford, I rode my gelding in this and he did well. The bars are thin enough that I had a lot of control, the roller gave him something for his nerves, and there isn't a whole lot for him to brace up on on this bit.

Westen SS Dogbone Copper Roller O-Ring Bit - Horse.com




Another big thing is to make sure your bit fits your horse's mouth. For a nervous, or squirrely, horse sometimes [imo] something like a bit being 1/2" too small can have a huge impact on how they respond.

My gelding is only 15.2hh, an ArabX, and he takes a 5 1/4" - 5 1/2" bit! The Waterford is 5 1/2" [Waterfords are supposed to be sized 1/4" to 1/2" too big] so he probably really has a 5 1/4" mouth. 
From what I understand, 5 1/4" is HUGE for an Arab cross. What a bigmouth. :rofl:


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Wallaby said:


> The one thing about the Waterford though, you have to be SUPER careful with your hands.
> If your hands aren't educated enough to deal with it, it's easy to make a bit evasion issue sooo much worse.
> 
> My gelding works off leg really well and I have relatively stable hands, so I feel ok using a Waterford on him.
> ...


Wallaby, thanks for this info on Waterfords. That IS a big bit for an Arab cross.  I know that Waterfords are not good if your goal is contact. But my goal is to make the horse carry herself more and not try to ride on the bit. So I hope she will like it. Ideally, it would be something comfortable to carry most of the time but also something to activate when a strong voice was necessary. I plan to use bit guards on mine to make sure the edges don't pinch anywhere. My mare would like to put her head down and run on strongly, at which point I have to sit up and get her head back up. I've heard Waterfords are good for that issue.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

gottatrot said:


> Wallaby, thanks for this info on Waterfords. That IS a big bit for an Arab cross.  I know that Waterfords are not good if your goal is contact. But my goal is to make the horse carry herself more and not try to ride on the bit. So I hope she will like it. Ideally, it would be something comfortable to carry most of the time but also something to activate when a strong voice was necessary. I plan to use bit guards on mine to make sure the edges don't pinch anywhere. My mare would like to put her head down and run on strongly, at which point I have to sit up and get her head back up. I've heard Waterfords are good for that issue.


For sure! My commentary about them not being for everyone was mainly for the OP. 
I think you and I are both probably experienced enough for the Waterford - I added qualifiers to my original post because I was concerned that it might come off sounding like I was recommending Waterfords as a general "nervous/hot horse fix-it" band-aid, if that makes sense.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

At the risk of being the grinch, it sounds to me like the horse has never been 'mouthed' properly and has some holes in his training. I would personally re-mouth him, lunge- first without/then with side-reins, driving, and get him giving to pressure. I would be working with a simple snaffle, can be double-joint.

The horse needs to learn to stand, and walk. Not having turn-out is no excuse, just think of those thoroughbreds on high feed and in a loosebox most of the day with one good run each day.

From what you say the horse is worked often enough, but is he getting a chance to let off steam? If he is a bit nappy when you get on, I would start with trotting, aiming for a slow warm-up trot for a few minute then expecting a good working trot and not allowing horse to 'run off' on you. He might have other ideas, but that is what I would aim for! 

Do you jump much? A horse should not be jumped everyday as it can be physically very hard on them, and if they are anticipating jumping all the time they can become hot-headed. (Just a by-the-by since you didn't mention jumping)


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> The horse needs to learn to stand, and walk. Not having turn-out is no excuse, just think of those thoroughbreds on high feed and in a loosebox most of the day with one good run each day.


Agree that learning to walk is important, but it may be step 5 rather than 1. Not sure that racing Thoroughbreds are the best example of horses that will stand still and walk quietly. They get ponied out on a lead and often dance, bite the pony horses and act up. No one is trying to walk them quietly around inside an arena. 




Many successful racehorses are forgiven their antics because of their athleticism, and instead of acting up it is called "dancing." War Admiral had his "war dance," and Zenyatta known for dancing as well. Often considered less "adorable" when you're trying to show the horse in a ring.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Hard to find an example of the parade ring here. This one, if it shows up, is an example of nz parade ring. And I have never been to the Wellington track!! Add to to-do list!! Horses are not ponied everywhere.

Disclaimer, I was looking for the images, so I have no idea what the blurb says!!


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## heyitsrach (May 22, 2016)

In reply to a lot of comments - yes, we're actually in a Waterford right now. Yes, we always do a slower warm up trot before getting into higher action/faster stuff. And no, saddleseat is on the flat so I don't jump but he is turned out in the indoor arena a lot to just let him run around. Also, for the people saying I need to retrain him to accept the bit/remouth him, what are some tips on this? I did not start him and don't know his past training experience too well, so I don't know what methods past riders have used but a big problem we have is not wanting to walk. He's calm in the beginning of the lesson and gradually get more and more energetic as he warms up more. So, anyone got any tips for getting him to flat walk? He just really wants to go and doesn't want to go slow. Like, as soon as we're trotting or cantering we're perfectly happy to go as fast or slow as I want and he's a gem. It's just walking where he is so problematic.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

The only way I've been able to teach a horse to walk is by walking them. If a horse does not want to walk and relax, anticipating faster work, then I take them out and spend time just walking. I'd take a day and instead of going through your usual routine, just walk around and teach your horse to relax. Don't trot or canter at all, just walk. This is the same way you teach horses not to anticipate "running spots" on trails, some days you just walk through them. 
Throw in some walking days every now and then and the horse will learn that some days you will be just walking. You've actually got the easier problem - I've found it much easier to get a horse to walk calmly and harder to get horses to rate and slow down when doing faster work.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

If he jig jig jigs turn little circles so that it is the easy thing to just walk and jigging means tight circles, ie harder work. Remember to take the circles both sides.


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