# Operating costs for 4-horse barn (unheated, no wash stall)



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

We are building! I'm super-excited. Will start a thread somewhere on our barn build soon. The plan is to put up a 32 x 48 building with full concrete foundation (but the stalls will be left open and filled with tailings and rubber mats). Half will be walled off as an equipment bay for my husband's tractor and stuff, the other half (so 24 x 32) will be a four-stall horse barn. One stall will be walled off as a sealed tack/feed room, one will be used for hay and implements and the other two will be for horses. 

I was talking to my BO (my horse is boarded at the neighbor's house until our barn is ready) who is fairly negative about us building a barn. He told me he estimates the operating cost of his four-horse barn at 3000$ per month! My eyes almost popped out of my head. I asked what that included and he just kept saying "everything" (he was getting cranky at that point so I didn't push it). Now, this barn is not heated (nor will mine be) and there is no hot water. There is electricity (lights), but how on earth could that cost 3000$ per month??? Is he including feed, bedding, vet bills... ??? They do have four horses compared to our goal of keeping two so I suppose half that amount would be reasonable (and affordable), but how could it cost 3000$ per month to operate a small barn? This is not a fancy barn either. Dirt floors covered in wood floor boards, no automatic waterers, flake board in the stalls, open windows in the loft to provide ventilation (there is no ventilation system other than open windows), etc. It's an older building. 

What do you figure your barn costs you to operate on a monthly basis? Again, it's easier for me to hear from those who don't heat or air condition their barns (no one does around here) and don't have a wash stall as those items would increase the operating cost significantly.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm not sure what you mean by operating costs. Besides paying for the barn itself it doesn't cost anything, except maybe a bit more on your electric bill. After the initial investment of all the things you'll need it will be cheap.

The horses will cost to keep but it should be way cheaper than paying board, if you don't count your hours worked.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I can't imagine what he's talking about unless he's including feed, bedding, grooming supplies, grooming tools, tack, hourly labor (yours), stuff like that.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I can't imagine what he's talking about unless he's including feed, bedding, grooming supplies, grooming tools, tack, hourly labor (yours), stuff like that.


Even then most of those things are infrequent purchases, unless he buys a new saddle each month.:wink:

I think he just wants to keep a good boarder so is trying to scare her.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

If he can't provide a breakdown of the costs, then I'd take what he says with a grain of salt. Also, just because it costs HIM that much to operate a 4-stall barn, it doesn't mean it will cost YOU that much. 

Also, think about how much he charges for board, what is covered under that, and any other income he has coming in. If he only boarded 4 horses, he'd have to charge each boarder something like $800 a month just to make a profit- and a SMALL profit at that. I've seen barns charge that much if they are in a very wealthy, expensive area with lots of bells and whistles, or if they are extremely serious, high-level training barns. 

Major cost factors could include:

* Electric/gas if there is heat to any part of the barn, or just in lighting. Especially if you have people going in and out all the time.

*Water bill if they are on city water rather than a well.

*Payroll (paying himself, as well as any help)

*If hay and feed is included, purchase of that along with expected waste and spoilage. But for a small barn, that's not going to be much unless hay is staggeringly expensive in your area. 

So even if you're paying all these things, keeping a horse at home is still cheaper than boarding. You're simply caring for your animals rather than trying to make a profit, and you're also able to find ways to control your costs with sweat equity.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I have a 32x36 four stall barn with electricity and water. My only cost associated with the barn on a monthly basis is electricity (that's part of the bill we get for the farm as a whole and that bill is something like $90/mth). The barn is unheated, btw. Probably your biggest expense will be your feed -- and that's an easy calculation based on how much hay and grain cost in your area factored in with how much you'll have to feed a month.

If I may be so bold....I always have concerns with regard to fire safety when it comes to mixing animals, hay and tractors in one building. I do not wish to cause you any angst on the matter but this can sometimes be a troublesome mix as I have had the misfortune of learning of tragedies in my area where this type of multipurpose building has caught fire due to the mix of dust, flammable materials, engine sparks, etc. So, I would encourage you to have a talk with a fire Marshall (or equivalent) to ensure you set things up to eliminate potential trouble spots.

I look forward to reading about you progress - best of luck.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

natisha said:


> I think he just wants to keep a good boarder so is trying to scare her.


That's what I think. I tried to get him to elaborate on what he included in that 3000$, but he wouldn't. I honestly don't know how on earth that number could be so high. There's nothing spectacular about that barn. 

It is on a well, so no city water. No hot water. No ventilation system. No heat in any part of the barn, although the heated water buckets get plugged in at night when the temperature of the barn is well below freezing, but honestly, when the horses are inside, the barn usually stays above freezing. There is no paid help at the barn, just himself and his wife.

I'm assuming he's including every horse expense he can think of as well as the expenses related to maintaining an indoor arena, pastures, etc. and maybe the mortgage payment! Maybe he's factoring in his time. 

Anyway, thanks for putting my mind at ease everyone. 3000$/ month is a lot more than I can afford to put on a barn.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Chevaux said:


> I have a 32x36 four stall barn with electricity and water. My only cost associated with the barn on a monthly basis is electricity (that's part of the bill we get for the farm as a whole and that bill is something like $90/mth). The barn is unheated, btw. Probably your biggest expense will be your feed -- and that's an easy calculation based on how much hay and grain cost in your area factored in with how much you'll have to feed a month.
> 
> If I may be so bold....I always have concerns with regard to fire safety when it comes to mixing animals, hay and tractors in one building. I do not wish to cause you any angst on the matter but this can sometimes be a troublesome mix as I have had the misfortune of learning of tragedies in my area where this type of multipurpose building has caught fire due to the mix of dust, flammable materials, engine sparks, etc. So, I would encourage you to have a talk with a fire Marshall (or equivalent) to ensure you set things up to eliminate potential trouble spots.
> 
> I look forward to reading about you progress - best of luck.


You may be so bold and yes, I share your concerns  

Sadly, the only way I'm getting my barn is by sharing the building with my non-horsey husband  

I have already had discussions with my contractor about ways to put a firewall between the two sections of the building. We are putting dutch doors leading outside in each stall so horses could be taken out of the building from the outside (no need to go into a burning building). My husband is not mechanically inclined, so there is no workshop that might involve dangerous things like welding tools mg: . This area will be used for storing equipment, including a farm tractor. Flammables, like gas, will be kept in a separate building. All that being said, I am well aware that it there are still risks. Your suggestion of asking a fire marshall to help design the building is an excellent one - there is a fire station less than a kilometer away so it should be easy to ask someone to meet with us. 

Any thoughts on what else I can do to ensure my horses are as safe as possible? No idling of machinery inside the building, of course. Hay will also be kept in a separate building - a baby barn located 100 ft or so from the barn, but we will likely keep a week's worth in the barn. Maybe a fire-alarm wired to the house?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Is it cold enough where you are that he has to plug in the tractor at night? The fire investigators say that is why we lost our tractor and workshop, due to the plug in catching fire.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Honestly I have no clue what it costs to maintain our barn - we've got 5 stalls, a tack room, a feed room and a hay loft plus the aisle area but since none of it gets heated then the only other costs are the electric lighting, fans in the summer, water heaters that I use in the winter when its freezing and the cost of the electricity to pump water that gets used for the horses in general
If your BO is including feed and bedding then those are things that you're already paying for plus the added cost of boarding at his place


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Another vote for he is trying to keep a paying boarder AND maybe worried that you might put the extra two stalls to use and start taking on boarders yourselves! Uh-oh competition. 

We have four stalls and four horses. A little maintenance cost in keeping things painted and in good repair and we have solar lighting, so beyond the initial costs of building it and the added taxes for another building, maybe $1000 a YEAR.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> Is it cold enough where you are that he has to plug in the tractor at night? The fire investigators say that is why we lost our tractor and workshop, due to the plug in catching fire.


It gets bitterly cold, but no, we don't plug in the tractor at night.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I don't use extension cords. I overnight end at a barn once and it caught Fire from an extension cord laying on some hay.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

churumbeque said:


> I don't use extension cords. I overnight end at a barn once and it caught Fire from an extension cord laying on some hay.


Not even sure what you would plug into an extension cord. All the lighting will be properly wired and insulated to prevent rodents getting to it. Outlets by each stall. I suppose I might use an extension cord to clip a horse or something, but wouldn't leave it plugged in. Not sure what else you would leave plugged in?


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

People use extension cords for all kinds of things. Running an electric fence energizer, running a water heater in a trough, running a fan, you name it. If you have outlets where you need them, you won't need extension cords.

Of course the easiest way to protect your horses from fire is to give them free access in and out of the barn. Stalls only make sense to me for something like the fairgrounds, where safety requires keeping horses separate.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Joel Reiter said:


> People use extension cords for all kinds of things. Running an electric fence energizer, running a water heater in a trough, running a fan, you name it. If you have outlets where you need them, you won't need extension cords.
> 
> Of course the easiest way to protect your horses from fire is to give them free access in and out of the barn. Stalls only make sense to me for something like the fairgrounds, where safety requires keeping horses separate.


Thus the reasoning behind the dutch doors leading into a paddock. I will try to see how it works to leave the doors open and let the horses decide. In severe weather, I may have to shut them in (leaving the dutch doors open would mean potentially significant amounts of snow in the barn, although an overhang of at least 6 feet running along the length of that side of the barn will mitigate that), or if a horse needs to be stalled for any reason. However, my plan is to see how it works out to just let them live outside with access to the barn when they feel like it. The stalls are also handy to be able to feed them separately and avoid having one horse eating the other's ration. 

I think people use extension cords a lot in older barns where the layout wasn't really planned out with thoughts for things like electric fence, etc. It's much easier now to just plan for it, sit down with the electrician and contractor, and do it right at the outset. I'm not saying I'd NEVER use one, but I can't imagine needing to use one when I'm not in the barn. Fans should not be necessary in a barn with lots of natural ventilation and open doors. Our summers don't get that hot here. But maybe I'll eat my words in a year when I realize I forgot something!


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## Kristyjog (Nov 11, 2013)

We have a 36 x 36 barn. 5 stalls, tackroom and feed room. It's costs no where near 3000 a month. After the building cost theres not much more than electricity as a monthly cost and maybe some maintenece here and there. And since building the barn I really don't even notice any difference in our electricity bill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

churumbeque said:


> I don't use extension cords. I overnight end at a barn once and it caught Fire from an extension cord laying on some hay.


Not that accidents can't happen but most people buy too LIGHT of an extension cord. The heavy duty extension cords are much safer and less likely to create a fire hazard.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

beau159 said:


> Not that accidents can't happen but most people buy too LIGHT of an extension cord. The heavy duty extension cords are much safer and less likely to create a fire hazard.


So true.

The other issue, which won't affect you OP as you're doing a new building, is old, frail and damaged wiring in buildings. When we built our new barn, btw, we deliberately had as much of the wire as possible exposed (rather than hidden in the walls) so that we could do easy visual inspections looking for potential troubles.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

1. Yes, the barn owner is grumping because he doesn't want to lose your money.

2. DH wired our barn and did such a great job our insurance agent wanted to hire him, after the inspection.

The lights are sealed and all the wiring is in non-chewable conduit.

We also have a big breaker box.

3. I only have two outlets in my 24 X 48 barn. I run extension cords. I DO NOT buy anything less than construction grade quality --- 12 gauge.

My hay has to be shoved in the same barn with the horses - far from ideal but it's been 13 years and so-far-so-good.

I run big tub fans on my hay most of the summer as we have obnoxious heat/humidity. 

Sometimes temps hit 100+ (F) with a heat index of 112%. I have lost hay to black mold, as a result, so I run the fans on heavy duty outdoor timers.

My electric bill goes up but not by more than 10% - 15%, compared to the A/C in the house. I will cut the heat back in the winter and wear more clothes but I flat out refuse to conserve air conditioning energy or barn fan energy in the summer. It's not worth my heart attack or losing my hay, lollol

I said all that to say, I am right in there with everyone else that it does not cost $3,000/month to run that small of a barn --- not even when your roll in the insurance premium for the barn.

He is mad you are taking your money and going home, lollol


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

walkinthewalk said:


> 1. Yes, the barn owner is grumping because he doesn't want to lose your money.
> 
> 2. DH wired our barn and did such a great job our insurance agent wanted to hire him, after the inspection.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I will be storing most of the hay in a separate building, but I'll have to keep a close eye on how hot it gets. We don't have a ton of room so it's going to be crammed in tighter than I'd like. However, I figure I'll order 200 bales at a time, twice a year, rather than get it all at once. We've already reserved the first delivery from our supplier. 

My BO does have an amazingly well-wired barn. One great thing about this place is that he's very, very safety-conscious! When they moved in, there was no electricity in the barn so they had it all done about 8 years ago when they moved in. It's all fully enclosed in non-chewable conduit and the lights are covered with globes and cages. Outlets are placed in very convenient locations so I haven't had to use an extension cord there so far. Even the heated water buckets plug right in outside each stall. I'm thinking of bringing my electrician over there to show him how well it was done. I asked the BO and he said no problem. He's quite proud to show off his wiring. 

Overall, he is being very supportive, but he's the kind of guy who thinks he's the only one who knows how to do things right. And yes, he's very, very concerned with costs. When I initially approached him to board there, he quoted me a price that was half the price of my other boarding stable. When I told him how much I was paying at the other place, he scoffed and said it was highway robbery. Then his price suddenly went up by 100$. Then he asked me to pay extra for hay (which was supposed to have been included, but it was November and we all know it can be hard to find hay that time of year). In the end, if I include the cost of the hay (which I paid up front as a lump sum and which was included at the other place) and cost it out per month, I am paying exactly the same thing I was paying at the previous place, LOL. But that's ok, they're our neighbors and they do provide excellent care so I don't mind. I just thought it was funny. 

Our summers never used to be hot, but in the last few years, we've seen a difference. AC was not something anyone ever had when I was growing up since we live in a maritime climate, but now, a lot of people are getting it and we turn it on more and more often. So it's hard to say how bad it will be. Generally, the barns I've been in tend to stay pretty cool because we do have cool nights. No one would dream of putting AC in a barn around here, but I've seen fans in the ones that don't have windows that open. I hope to put a cupola in mine and make sure there is lots of air movement. We do live on a hill and the barn is in a open area that almost always has a nice breeze so hopefully it will be ok.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

If I had a do-over on my 24 X 48 barn, it would be to put a big exhaust fan either in the roof or one at each end, at the peaks. Ones like they use in cattle barns.

A good friend in Ohio did that with the horse barn that was already built. She said it was one of her smarter moves.

The climate is changing, I don't care what anyone says.

This "Louisiana style" summer heat/humidity we have seen the last few years is not normal for Middle Tennessee. Even the deeply rooted folks say it's not normal to last as long as it does (a few months


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

$3,000/month for a barn? A barn is nothing but a building. Same as a shed or a garage. Unless you are including upkeep of the horses and other expenses unrelated to the building, there is no cost.

Maybe the guy took out a second mortgage on his property to pay for the building and is including the loan payment on that plus his equipment and his kid's student loans.  Aside from electric and water, the building has no intrinsic cost to it after you pay for the construction.


You mention concrete floors but keeping dirt for the stalls. I would suggest taking another look at that idea. I the truck is already there to put the concrete, adding to the stalls is a minimal additional cost. It will pay for itself in a short time. Concrete lasts forever and its easy to keep clean. Dirt will eventually wear out and require much more maintenance. Rubber floor mats and shavings (IMO) negate any issues that people claim about concrete. Concrete can't be beat for convenience and durability. Just a thought.

On extension cords... yes, you should always use an extension cord that is properly rated and properly GROUNDED. Especially in wet locations such as barns.

More importantly, however, is that extension cords are designed as temporary wiring solutions. They are not designed for permanent use. A properly designed electric system has receptacles in locations that make extension cords unnecessary. Barns have plenty of wood and combustibles. Dust in the air provides a great environment for an electrical fire. Mice love to chew on exposed wires, and extension cords make easy targets.

Need a run a fan on a hot day and the cord doesn't reach? A proper extension cord may be the solution. Need to plug in a tractor overnight? If you don't have a receptacle in a good location, you should have one installed. If you have an extension cord in your barn that has been there long enough to gather some dust/dirt, it is a problem waiting to happen. Have someone run a new line to where it is needed.

Don't mean to pontificate. Barns and electric are a scary enough combination when done right. No need to push the luck with unsafe wiring practices.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Well now I'm torn about the concrete floors. I wasn't keeping the stalls free from concrete to save money, I was doing it to save my horses' legs. The idea is that you put down aggregate (1-2" rock), then tailings (fine rock dust that when compacted, becomes almost as hard as concrete), then rubber mats, then bedding (we will be using wood pellets). Someone did their barn like this in my area and she loves it. 

What are your opinions on concrete floors in stalls? I need to decide ASAP!!! Do I pour the entire thing in concrete (this is probably the easier way to do it for the foundation guys) or do I leave the stalls open? Factors to keep in mind: hubby and I are not DIY types so the less maintenance, the better. The horses will not be in their stalls except when they have to be (possibly on cold nights or in very severe weather). Harley may have a touch of arthritis (he's 16).


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

The horse in my avatar would stock up in cement stalls, no matter how deep the shavings. I had to board him for the first few years so he was only three when he went into his first stall with cement floors. It ended up the BO moved him and my other horse to the side barn which was all dirt. 

My next boarding barn was also an old cow barn turned horse barn. They had cement stalls. Duke still stocked up but not as bad because they kept him turned out about 16 hours daily, unless it was freezing/sleeting snow. Then they bed him as deep as they could without losing him in the shaving

So virgously waving both hands "No!" to concrete in the stalls.

Concrete in the walk and storage areas with mats on top = yes. It will really keep the dust down.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

Acadianartist said:


> The idea is that you put down aggregate (1-2" rock), then tailings (fine rock dust that when compacted, becomes almost as hard as concrete), then rubber mats, then bedding (we will be using wood pellets).


As you note, when compacted properly, it is almost as hard as concrete. Over time, however, that method will require more maintenance. 

If your horse has a special need (such as walkinthewalk who posted about a horse having problems with a concrete foundation) that is different.

All the commercial barns near me have concrete floors with mats and shavings/pellets. They have horses ranging from minis to drafts. From hacks to show horses. From young to old. None have an issue with concrete as a base.

It is even less an issue if your horses spend little time in the stall.

In the end, it is a personal choice. I have never seen any scientific evidence to show concrete is any better or worse than compacted gravel.

Here's a good article on flooring options:

http://extension.psu.edu/publications/ub036

Note that this article, like many others, talks about concrete as a singular surface. While they recommend mats, they do not weigh its advantages/disadvantages when used with mats and bedding.

If you are putting concrete in the aisles, you should consider a "broom" finish. That will provide more traction for horses (especially if they are shod). A smooth finish can be slippery.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Tazmanian Devil said:


> You mention concrete floors but keeping dirt for the stalls. I would suggest taking another look at that idea. I the truck is already there to put the concrete, adding to the stalls is a minimal additional cost. It will pay for itself in a short time. Concrete lasts forever and its easy to keep clean. Dirt will eventually wear out and require much more maintenance. Rubber floor mats and shavings (IMO) negate any issues that people claim about concrete. Concrete can't be beat for convenience and durability. Just a thought.


 This, I second this. I have never had problems with concrete, put down mats and cover with bedding. If I was doing it that is how I would do it. I would also put a drain in it!


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