# I need advice



## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

So i have a 10-year-old AQH gelding. I got him about 5-6 years ago and he was the greatest horse ever. Any place that ive ever taken him everyone is always telling me how great he is. Anyone could ride him, even my little 6-year-old sis' until about 5 months ago. He is horrible. He spooks over nothing. About a month ago, he threw me. And it wasnt just a little fall. He threw me on my head. I was in a neck braise and he screwed up my back. Well i got back on him like a week later and the thing is is that im not afraid of him. I just dont understand. Well about a week later i was tacking him up and he just started freaking out on the cross ties and fell on his side and broke loose and cut himself all up. Well when i ride him he is a jerk. He fights me and bucks and wont stop like he used to. Yesterday i went to tie him up and he broke out of the cross ties 3 times and took off towards the road. What could have happened? I luv my horse and we used to have such a bond. I am even considering moving stables because he was never like this until we came to this stable. Its like im the only one that can ride him now. Any advice is appreciated. Thanx.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

did his feed change?
did his turnout schedule change?
did his forage change?
does anyone else handle him on a regular basis? have you seen how they handle him?

that would help me get a better idea of what's going on 

thanks,


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I'd get a vet out and do a full check up on him. Something that drastic of a change leads me to think something medical.

We had a horse where I board that started acting up like crazy and when they got the vet out, found out that the horse was getting a cataract in one eye.

Hope it gets better very soon.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

kickshaw said:


> did his feed change?
> did his turnout schedule change?
> did his forage change?
> does anyone else handle him on a regular basis? have you seen how they handle him?
> ...



Nope nothing with his feed or his turnout schedule. The only one that really turns my horse out is my close friend and she is good with him. I am supposed to take him to a trail class show next weekend but i dont think i even can cause i cant tie him up. If he even steps back and feels the least bit of resistance he freaks out and breaks the lead rope and takes off.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

Solon said:


> I'd get a vet out and do a full check up on him. Something that drastic of a change leads me to think something medical.
> 
> We had a horse where I board that started acting up like crazy and when they got the vet out, found out that the horse was getting a cataract in one eye.
> 
> Hope it gets better very soon.


Him being a jerk and stuff could be medical? I just had the vet out like 5-6 months ago and everything was fine. Well i am having his teeth floated next month so ill ask then.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

OMG yes!!!

A horse can't verbally tell us when they are hurting or something is wrong. So they act out. They will kick, buck, bite - do things not normally in their character in order to say, hey - I don't feel okay.

So whenever a horse's behavior changes that first thing I do is think medical related. Then I go backwards to environment (feed, other horse's, other people) and work out what it can be.

And honestly the majority of the time, it's been a medical related thing.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

see i just had the vet out not too long ago. Nothing was abnormal. He is very healthy and in shape. If its not medical related, what else can i look in to? Its just so frustrating. This makes me just not want to tride him cause its not even fun anymore. Another thing is he used to go on the trail 1-2 times a week but he hasnt been out on the trail since November. Could it just be boredom in the arena.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Thing is, a lot can happen in a week let alone a few months. So I'd still say get him a good check up and let the vet know about his behavior change.

It could be boredom. Some horses get really sour on just arena work only.

Do you do fun things with him? Just hanging out with him, no riding at all?


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

not really anything fun. Like yesterday i just wanted to brush him and the flies were bugging him so i put a little fly spray on my hands to put on his face and he freaked out, ripped out of the cross ties and took off. I cant do anything with him lately cause he has just been such a jerk. Can you suggest any exercises to try with him for getting him to ease to resistance? Its just so frustrating. I used to be able to tie him up for however long i wanted. Now i have to completely watch him when tied up and be extremely slow. My mom's always on my back telling me to not let him get away with that and to be aggressive, but i just want the bond back that i had with him. I could probably get him to liosten to me if i really wanted to, but why fight him and have no fun?


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Aww.  Yeah, it could be medical related. I'd also recommend getting him checked by the vet. He may have been checked not long ago, but his behavior doesn't seem good.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

PoptartShop said:


> Aww.  Yeah, it could be medical related. I'd also recommend getting him checked by the vet. He may have been checked not long ago, but his behavior doesn't seem good.


Has you horse ever changed like this? I just dont understand how a horse can chage so dramatically. I used to be able to ride double, put anybody on him and go anywhere. After he pulls this kind of behavior, its like he tries to suck up to me though because he knows im upset, yet he'll do it again. So when i call the vet, i just tell them that i wasnt a check up.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

My mare went through a change this end of winter/beginning of spring. She would not walk when i was leading her, she would prance, buck, rear when leading. Riding her was a complete nightmare. I had thought about selling her, as i thought she was too much to handle.

It turned out to be a lack of training (when i got her a year ago, i did more riding than groundwork with her). She was turning 5 and was getting to one of those testing points in her life. And lastly was spring fever.

After i continually worked with her in a rope halter, she has greatly improved. So much as to where i rode her in just a halter! Something i thought i would not be able to do.

If he keeps breaking out of the cross ties, i would stop using them until he gets calm enough with tying that he'll stand quietly.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

he breaks out of any ties. And i cant stop tying him cause then i cant tack up.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Are you able to groom/tack him up in a stall? Or just a small confined place?
You might try doing that so you can teach him to stand still.

I always groom/tack up in a stall. I find it gives the horses to do what they want (within reason) and I can also gauge what mood they're in.

I don't know if you are at a busy barn, or if the cross ties are in the aisle way, but you don't have to worry about moving him over if someone has to come down the aisle way.


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

I agree with everyone...if the his change in behavior has been that drastic, I think a thorough vet check would be the first order of business.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Nope, she didn't.
Good point, Appy...it could be from lack of training.  
How does he lunge? Have you tried a lot of groundwork with him?


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

no i dont do groundwork with him as bad as this sounds. Ive tried lunging him but all he'll do is run full speed and thats not the point of lunging and if hes on the lunge line he just turns toward me.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I have a tremendous bond with my horse, and so when he starts acting out, I know he's not doing it for just any reason (although he does have his moments!). So there have been times where he has seriously acted out and it definitely was a medical issue (beginning of an abscess, bug bites I didn't notice on his back etc).

Like I said before, the only way a horse can communicate with us is by his behavior, so, acting out lets them tell us something is wrong.

Back to working with him, definitely go back to ground work. That is the best thing that can be done for any horse.

You can make ground work fun!


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

can you give me any exercises to do with him on the ground? or just lunging?


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## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

I know everyone's been saying that it might be a medical problem, and it could, but if the vet's been out there, then it might not be. If you have a semi-small arena, try join up. Just let him go in the arena and chase him around until he locks his ear on you, drops his head, and starts to lick his lips. Then change your aggressive stance to a submissive one by hunching your shoulders, turning away, and keeping your eyes on the ground. Once he comes to the middle with you, turn around and pet him around his eyes and ears, but don't look him in the eye. After you do this for a little bit, turn and walk off. He should follow you. If he starts to stray out or if he shys from you, send him around again until he gives you the same signs.

You could also try herbs and plant oils. Bach has some great remedies that you can order. You just give them a few drops in their water. Aspen would be perfect for your horse. It's for vauge fears when a horse starts to spook at nothing. You could also try Imaptiens. It's for impatient horses. I've tried some of them and they're really amazing. They take some time to work, but they do work.

http://www.bachflower.com/Pets.htm

That's the website for the remedies. PM me if you have any questions.

Yes, I'm a natural horse person. not like the Parelli method, but the Monty Roberts method.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

my mom uses the Rescue Remedy with our 12 year old lab. She's terrified of Thunderstorms, and she'll give her a couple drops on the tongue and in like 20 min. or so she won't be shaking and will not hide.

Sometimes the simpler things are, the better they are


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

amightytarzan5 said:


> I know everyone's been saying that it might be a medical problem, and it could, but if the vet's been out there, then it might not be. If you have a semi-small arena, try join up.


I think she mentioned the vet hadn't been out in a few months (5 or 6) so something could have developed easily within that time. Drastic behavior changes are generally due to something happening to the horse either physically or mentally.

A lot of horses have their moments of course but the behvavior she describes seems a lot more than just acting out and being a turd.

Ground work can be as simple as leading a horse over obstacles liketarps and poles, around cones, trick training. 

Trickonometry is a great book. Read up on ground work exercises always remember the horse needs to respect your space.

And again, I encourage you to have a vet to check him out. Once you rule that out, then it's not something you have to worry about being an issue.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Doing circles, walking or trotting over poles, weaving in & out of cones, etc. is good groundwork.  Lunging wouldn't hurt, either.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I'd like to hear more about your stable. What makes it different from the previous stable? How long have you been at the new one?

Is the feeding schedule the same as far as time of feeding and amount he gets?

Is turn out the same? Was he with other horses previously? Is he turne out with horses now? If so, how is he treated?

How often is he handled by other people at the new place? How often was he handled by other people at the old the place?


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

The paint that lives my QH started getting very "jerk-like" a few months ago. She broke halters, hated being bit up, would crow hop, rear, and buck too. My little friend who rides her is 9 (and a FANTASTIC rider)- haha, I'm 28...anyway, when we took our horses to the vet for vaccs and floats, turns out the paint's mouth was sore from her teeth, and some cutting had occurred. After the float, a week of rest and healing, the paint (Monet) is back to her old self; reliable, happy, motivated, and comfy  . Your problem most definitely might be a medical problem.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

Solon said:


> I'd like to hear more about your stable. What makes it different from the previous stable? How long have you been at the new one?
> 
> Is the feeding schedule the same as far as time of feeding and amount he gets?
> 
> ...


well he has been here for 1 1/2 years. Hes in a barn now. He never used to be. At the old stable, he used to get out all the time and go out with a lot of horses but now there is only one horse that he can go out with. He gets fed dinner early in the afternoon but i think hes adjusted to this by now. He is very playful when turned out with other horses. He kicks his back feet up but not out of mean spite. My friend just moved her 5 horses. He used to be turned out with two of them all the time but not anymore. They got their own place now so i might move up there so he would be with the horses he knows best. Ok so where i board, i told the lady that only two of the girls are allowed to let my horse out and yet she takes him out. I dont want her too and i have made that specifically clear yet she still does. Shes really old. Well i think ill get the vet out and get his teeth done and checked and then we can rule that out. And in the meantime, work on groiundwork.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Hmm.... well after reading about your barn I think he's had plenty of time to adjust to it.

Does he act out when you handle him on the ground?
Does he act out when you brush him and if so at what point (as in when you brush his legs or back or tail)
Does he paw much?
Does he curl his lip much?

Sorry for the milliion questions but these are things I'm thinking could help answer.

This is a really good informational sheet on ground work.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

Solon said:


> Hmm.... well after reading about your barn I think he's had plenty of time to adjust to it.
> 
> Does he act out when you handle him on the ground?
> Does he act out when you brush him and if so at what point (as in when you brush his legs or back or tail)
> ...


Dont worry about the questions. I appreciate the help. Im the one asking for help. Nope he likes being brushed. Its just the tying thing and when i ride him. Its almost like its just rebellion. Like whenever he faces resistance, he fights. Whenever he feels like resistance when hes tied or when im riding him, he fights til he gets loose. He doesnt paw or curl his lip. What would curling his lip have to do with it?


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Lip curling can be a sign of distress.

Okay so we are at tying and riding.

Now, if this isn't vet issue maybe it is a respect issues. He's basically flipping you the hoof and telling you, I'm not listening.

Does he ground tie? Start working with that. It's really tough for some horses but it will help in establishing that you tell him what to do. Make sure you do it in an arena or round pen though! If he runs off you want to be able to get him.

Drop the leadrope on the ground and walk away a couple of steps (or start grooming him). If he moves, but him back to where he was without criticizing, praise and go on with standing there (or groom him). Eventually he will learn he's supposed to stand there. Try working on ground tying after you've had your riding session._ [info paraphrased from What Your Horse Wants You to Know by Gincy Self Bucklin]_

Has he always pulled back in the cross ties or is that new? If it's new, there is something that is causing him to panic by being tied (or, he's being a poopy head).


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

see this is all new. He wont ground tie though. Wow you just took the words out of my mouth. Yeah i guess what i am trying to say is its almost like he is PANICKING. Like all i did was bring the saddle pad out and he like got out of those cross ties as fast as ive ever seen. Its just weird. He never used to do this.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

The panic thing is very real for horses and once they realize they can break the ties to get away from 'the monster' whatever that is, then they'll keep doing it.

There are some horses that never adjust to tying. But I've found if you work with them most horses will learn to ground tie, it can take a lot of time.

Now why is he panicking - could be he doesn't want to be ridden because he is hurting and when he sees the saddle he's associating that with pain so he's acting out. Or, he's doing it because he just doesn't want to be ridden.

So this is sort of why it'd be good to have the vet do real good check on him and you'd be able to rule out soreness or anything else that might be going on. 

It could be too that his teeth are really bothering him. Is there a way the vet could do his teeth sooner than next month? I know we've had horses that were just hideous monsters where I board and when the teeth were checked and floated, back to their normal selves.

So, he is panicking for a reason, I'm betting big money it has to do with him associating riding and the saddle with hurting.

When you see him agan, run your hands acrossed his back, sides, belly. Take caution and pay attention to what he does and how he reacts. Lift his front legs and carefully bring them forward to stretch them (if he's good about having his fee handled).

If his shoulder is hurting, he's going to let you know pretty quickly.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

i rode him yesterday and checked him. Its not body pain. It just so possibly could be his teeth. But its just so weird...How can a horse go from being the calmest horse when tied to the most panicked? Everyone around is basically telling me to man handle it and "show him who's boss" but i don't want it to be a big competition cause trust me he'd win. I want what we used to have back. Well when i go out on wednesday maybe ill just work on strictly groundwork and see how he acts. Maybe ill just put him in the round pen and brush him there and everything


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Believe me, they can change that quickly when they are hurting. And I don't believe in the show him who's boss in a bullying sort of way. Especially if he's acting out to tell you something's wrong.

I would take him in the round pen and just hang out with him. Groom him, talk with him, walk around but don't ask anything of him. Do that for a couple of days and start working a bit on the ground tying. I'd maybe hold off any big riding until you do get his teeth done. 

Trying to ride him with bad teeth will open up a whole new set of problems like not letting you put the bridle on etc.

Good luck and keep me updated, would love to hear how he's doing!


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

thanks so much for the help. I actually just talked to my aunt and shes telling me to call the vet. And she knows my horse really good. Shes wowed on his behavior.


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## phantom (May 12, 2008)

I've had a horse with similar problems, though not as bad. Assuming that pain is ruled out as a cause, could he have had a bad experience being tied? Like something spooked him and he couldn't get away? I knew a horse who got spooked while tied once and broke the tie and after that couldn't be tied at that end of the arena for quite a while. Now that your horse has learned he can break ties, there's a lot of possible reasons why he keeps doing it, but what you want to do is make him want to stay tied. If he feels like he's being forced to stay still, that could contribute to his panicking. What I did with my horse who hated tying (he rarely broke ties, but refused to walk up to them) was a sort of modified join-up. I lunged him (with or without lunge line) till he asked to join up, then let him come to me, praised him, did whatever ground work I felt like, then led him over to the tie rope. When he balked or walked away I just made him lunge more. When running away is your idea, it's funny how quickly the horse learns it isn't that fun. :wink: Got to the point where he'd follow me right up to the tie without even a lead rope on him.

Hope that gives you some ideas, but of course get that vet out cause my first impression was definately that somehting was hurting him. If you can't figure out the root cause of the problem then trying to fix the behavior won't work too well.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

Phantom...i dont know if you saw my first post but about 3 weeks ago he was tied and panicked when his fly mask was being removed and he fell and got cut up. Ever since, we've had an issue with tying. But overall, his behavior has changed.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

How does this horse keep breaking the ties? 

Dumas will pull hard! I mean REALLY hard and he has never broken a tie. I have seen him kick /hop while tied and yank and pull ...it was a scary deal...yet the ties never broke. I also tie him to a maple tree that I'm not a huge fan of :roll: because he can do damage. Maybe he hasn't broken his ties because the tree is about 6" in diameter and will bend some.

I am by no means an expert. but seems to me a horse has to teach its self that it cannot get free and to quit pulling cause it hurts. What about tying him where he can't get loose. Where he can learn to accept it. I don't use cross ties tho. maybe that just plum freaks him out... What about a single tie? Just food for thought.  good luck!


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

well the thing is is that i have him on cross ties to where he can get loose if he pulls hard enough. see i dont want to tie him so tight cause what if he freaks out and cant get loose and he hurts himself like he did 3 weeks ago. Then we'll have a problem.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

americancowgurl31391 said:


> well the thing is is that i have him on cross ties to where he can get loose if he pulls hard enough. see i dont want to tie him so tight cause what if he freaks out and cant get loose and he hurts himself like he did 3 weeks ago. Then we'll have a problem.


What about tying him somewhere other than the cross ties?   I would thing by tying him "loosely" he is thinking... ok.. i can just back out of these!  Its working against you instead of for you.  Its not teaching him that it is ok to be tyed up.


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## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

Join-up will work better than just basic lunging. It helps you get a partnership with your horse.

I really encourage you to try the herbal remedies. I used the honeysuckle on a horse who had just lost it's owner and was deppressed. It really helped her to cope and stuff. I really like herbal remedies.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Can you tie him tightly somewhere else?


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

to a wood hitching post but im just saying what if he pulls back and cant get loose. then hes rally gonna freak until something breaks or he gets hurt. 
Can anyone explain to me what joining up is? ive never done it.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Here's a good places for info:

http://www.wikihow.com/Join-Up-With-a-Horse

 Hope it helped.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

http://www.montyroberts.com/ju_about.html

That explains join-up


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I don't think it's a good idea tying up a horse to something they can't get away from. Too many horses break get neck injuries or worse can break their necks going that route.

If you use a blocker tie, it's safe and the horse isn't likely to hurt himself as say if you tied him to a tree or hitching post.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

what is a blocker tie?


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Here is the link that tells more about it. All the horses I've seen trained with it have been succesful. It's a really great tool.

http://www.equineelite.com/tiering.html


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

That looks pretty cool.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I tell you, it really works miracles and it's not so hard on the horse.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, it looks very safe. I say get it!


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

so i dont under stnd. If he pulls back hard enough, will it just break?


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

No it doesn't break - when the horse pulls against it, it gives. So if a horse braces against it, it will feed a bit of the rope and the idea being the horse will stop panicking.

We have them at our barn. I don't know why I forgot to mention it before!

Also wanted to add, all of our cross ties are the breakaway type:


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

But it can only give so much so what about when it gets to the end?


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

you can also do one of these: 

http://downunderhorsemanship.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=38

I saw an episode on RFDTV where he used this on a horse that was flipping over backwards tying - i liked the way it worked


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

The blocker tie looks pretty nifty 8)


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

update: so i went riding today and before i was lunging him and tried the join up thing. He did it once til he found food and then walked off. I dont' know if you guys are understanding, but a tie blocker won't work. It stil has restraint. If he feels any restraint at all, he pulls back. So he was really good while i rode him today. We didn't do any arena work because i want to see if thats maybe why hes acting up...cause he's bored. He was so awesome. We walked down the road by ourselves and he did really well. He acted a little funny when i put the bridle on so im gonna get his teeth checked and in a couple weeks im having a really good trainer come out. She does natural horsemanship and shes taken some problem horses really far. So hopefully she can be some help and maybe i can move my horse to where she trains. Its a really nice facility with endless mountains of trails around so me and my horse would be able to trail ride whenever.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Aww, I'm glad he's doing much better.  Keep it up! Good luck with the trainer, too.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

Thank You. Yeah she worked with my aunt's colt and she popular down here but really expensive. My aunt offered to pay for it cause she knows this is so out of character for my horse and wants him to be back to normal.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm glad he was good for you yesterday. Maybe you two just hit a little bump in the road and now you're over it.

That's so nice of your Aunt to offer to pay for the trainer.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

update: So my farrier came out a week ago and I wasnt out there so he just went ahead and did his feet anyways. So he tied him up on the cross ties and supposedly he just stood still for 40 min like a perfect angel. So i guess he's just pulling this behavior with me. So i went out there on Wednesday and tied him up and he just stood there but he just seemed like he was about to come bailing out of the ties. Maybe m just paranoid but i just am so scared of him getting hurt or freaking out worse. So i left him tied up for a little bit, groomed him, praised him and just let him eat grass. Do you think if i do a little of this each time, he'll gain back his confidence of being tied? I also rode him and it was extremely windy but he did great. I even took him down the road by himself. So is this just testing? What can i do to fix this?


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

It could be a medical issue, but to me it sounds like its almost completely a respect issue. Somewhere along the line he lost his respect for you. 

I know from experience, I have two horses. Smokey is an absolute angel and has all the respect, loyalty, trust, love, etc. for me as i do for him. Scarlet however, I just got her, she had little respect for me from the beginning, and although were bonding and she's learning that I'm her leader.. she still has outbursts of loss of respect. 

I'll tell you about Scarlet, and hopefully that will help you with your horse. =] When I first got Scarlet in Janurary, she was pretty good. She was completely green, so I started training her slowly. We worked on lunging for a whole month, introduced the bitting harness, bridle and side reins.. For that month I didn't really have any problems with her, she was good. I know she didn't quite trust me yet, but she tolerated me and let me do these things to her. 

I started long lining her in February, and this where she started acting up. She'd rear in her stall to look over the wall, she'd rear when I tried to girth her.. Sometimes she'd rear on long lines. She broke free of the ties randomly. Most of this had to do with my attempts at clipping or vacuuming her. Progressing into March and April, we tried to hook her to an arena drag (prep for training to drive) and she freaked out. She kicked at me once on long lines. She also went into bronco bucking fits on long lines a couple times (to the point where I almost got dragged). 

Everytime I had her on cross ties, she'd threaten to break free for no reason. (I really couldn't recall anything I did, she would just start to pull back in my presence). Sometimes yelling at her would get her to stop (approaching her sweetly and trying to pet her only made her pull back more).. Other times yelling would seal the deal. She broke about 5-6 sets of cross ties, 3 halter crown pieces, and several stall ties. 

I started to get annoyed with her, and avoided going to the barn because she was such a pain for me. At first her behavior frightened me, since I was used to calm horses and she is pretty hot. Then it just p**** me off. Now I just tune out the behavior and try to concentrate on her positive qualities and bonding with her. 

I keep my training sessions really short. I try not to overload her. Some days we work hard, and other days we'll do something really simple like go for a walk on the trail. If she's having a week where she is just being completley uncooperative, I go back to something simple like lunging. 

I don't know that I can suggest this to you, since your horse sounds more panicky than Scarlet. But I put a halter with a nylon crown piece (rather than a leather breakaway halter) when I groom her on cross ties. I never leave her unattended.. Since I started using this halter, she kind of gave up on pulling free. She starts to pull once in a while, usually spontaneously but gives up. She doesn't pull out of panic though, its more out of spite (as in "okay I'm done working with you I don't want to be around you") and once she breaks free, she trots around and snorts as if she wants people to look at her and watch her. 

I started her under saddle a couple weeks ago. The third time I rode her, she threw me.. Which was a little unexpected since she's been so good lately. I've been on her since and she's been good. This kind of shows me that she's gaining respect for me (since her behavior is good most of the time 80% or so) but she still doesn't have enough respect or trust. I still work on bonding with her. I tried doing join up with her, but I'm a little skeptical of that stuff to be honest and it didn't really work. 

In order to bond, I try to praise her a lot and spend time grooming her. I spend time with her in the field after I turn her out. I give her treats before a training session. I take her for walks on the trail (I lead her). I ask her to do little "scary" things, like following me over a little jump or walking across a bridge. She hesitates, but eventually follows. 

If she's disrespectful with ground manners, I let her know. I always punish her for her bad & dangerous behavior right away. (The punishment is always reasonable, like a smack or yelling) I take her back to lunging if she's having an off couple of days. She's good at lunging (all I need is my voice and occaisionally my hand, she knows all of the commands) and enjoys it. So if something seems too "hard" for her, I give her the confidence she needs by doing something "easy." 

I started doing that before I ride her too, I lunge her a little bit. (Partly to use up some energy, but more so to have some confidence carry over from lunging, so when I ride her she feels a little more confident and willing)

As far as standing on cross ties, I'd make it as pleasurable as possible for him. Take him out on the cross ties every day for a week or two or as long as necessary and just groom him and give him treats. Tack him up on the cross ties, praise him give him a treat and make him stand for a few minutes with tack on, then tack the tack off and put him away. Once he realizes that the cross ties are an enjoyable experience, he should calm down a lot. 

I honestly think he just lost his respect for you and is testing you. I think you need to bond with him and teach him to respect you. He'll gain respect for you once he learns that you are his leader, and you're someone who will protect him, be compassionate and kind. Scarlet and I bonded I think mostly through our time in the pasture, during grooming, and walks through the woods. If you don't have trails to handwalk him on, just hand graze him and groom him or pet him while you hand graze him. 

My other horse and I have the strongest bond. It didn't happen overnight, it actually took me a few years to trust him, and he's only gained respect for me recently. (he was never bad before, but he would take advantage of my inexperience a lot) He used to break free from me too, but he was harmless he would just run to the nearest grassy spot and graze. It was still disrespectful.. Now however, he'll walk next to me without a halter, stop when I stop, walk when I walk, trot when I run, etc. Don't be surprised if it takes awhile for him to start trusting you like he used to.


Good Luck!


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

wow thanks. That took a while to write. Yeah i agree. Everyone keeps thinking oh well its something medical but i've had him for 6 years and i honestly dont think it is. Actually yesterday i took my horse out on the trail(his favorite thing to do) alone and he did AWESOME. See he only acts up at the barn and in the arena but once we leave and go down the road, hes willing. We used to have the best bond. Its almost like someone took him out and scared him or tied him up and he freaked out and they didnt tell me. When i tacked him up yesterday, i just dropped the rope and ground tied him and if he moved i would firmly say NO and move him back to where i wanted him. OMG...im so proud of him. It was like he was back to his old self.
And just to mention, he has never ever been on the trail alone cause my mom wont let me go so she rode her bike and i rode dude and it was awesome. Maybe at the barn hes showing off cause there's other horses around because when its just me and him on the trail or down the road, hes awesome. 

Also, can anyone give me any ground work exercises besides lunging or any exercises while riding so we're not just going in circles?


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## dustytrailzz (May 25, 2008)

*bad behavior*

I would have an equine chiropractor come out and check his poll and neck area. It sounds as though he's expecting pain (think pinched nerves) and is acting out before it happens. I had a saddlebred that was really good, and then one day she was bad. For about two months she would rear and more often than not flip over backwards. A friend finally suggested a chiropractor. It was a little expensive, but when he adjusted her neck, she almost fell to her knees. She was instantly relieved and never behaved badly after that. The chiropractor said horses can pop their necks out by rolling, getting cast in the stall, playing with other horses, etc. Just a thought, but we were surprised at how sudden her bad behavior came about.


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## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

About the join-up: You said he did it until he found food. If he turns away from you or wanders away, you send him away again until he wants to be with you again. Keep doing this until he finds you more interesting than anything else. If he breaks a sweat, that's okay. It teaches him to respect you and to trust you at the same time. It took me four hours one time to get this horse to follow me at all costs. But that was a really hard horse that I hadn't had much time to interact with. You should try it again!


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

yeah when i tried the join up thing, it just seemed like he was confused. It was annoying. I did it for like 20 min and he was confused and gave up. I didnt know if i was supposed to just keep him working. Will he eventually catch on? What other exercises build trust?


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## EquestrianLover (May 29, 2008)

sounds like medical related which most everyone is saying. i would get him checked out.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Interesting. I would get a vet out to see if there is a new health problem at hand. Could be his vision or something else that is really bothering him and interfering with his surroundings.

If you know him well, which from the sounds of it you do, obviously this behavior isnt normal.

Get a vet out to check him.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

ok so i rode dude the other day...down the road and in the arena, bareback with a halter and with a saddle. OMG...he was awesome. Its almost like hes back to his old self!! Maybe he just needed to get out away from the ranch cause hes been stuck in the arena for months. Doing the same thing every ride basically. He walked troted and cantered like a WP horse. He was awesome and so responsive. Im so proud of him. Now we just need to work on tying.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Glad to hear things worked themselves out. Even horses have off days


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

yeah but he had like an off month or two or three...its almost like maybe he was just going through a phase


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## Jackie (May 31, 2008)

Try a hair analyse, teeth check everything you can think of be thorough if nothing stands out start at the beginning (ground work and patients


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