# I just got let go from work, was told to leave right away



## aubie

I am truly sorry.


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## Zimpatico

Oh that's horrible! Sadly, it's year end and happening to a lot of folks. We just let a lot of our team go last week. Why does this always have to happen right around the holidays?


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## anndankev

I am so sorry to hear this, a terrible time of year to happen.

Advice from someone who has lost their job before (me) is to file for whatever type of unemployment benefits are available immediately. Right now.

It takes a while for any benefits to start up, and they can be a great help while looking for another job.


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## Hoofpic

Im panicking right now because Im just in shock. I DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!

It obviously was something bad because my boss pretty much told me I had to pack up right away and leave. Usually when they let you go, dont they usually let you at least finish the day off? I only had 2 hours to go.

I went on lunch before meeting with my boss. I had a bad feeling about this meeting because my boss has been acting a bit different this morning with me. 

He usually books our year end review by early Dec and the fact nothing was scheduled yet brought a red flag to my mind.

When I went to meet with him, he flat out said "this isnt a year end review....we have to let you go"

I didnt ask why. He just said that the company is expanding, everyones role is expanding so obviously my role is expanding as well. In other words, Im not a fit long term with the company's culture and he doesnt believe im up to snuff to do the job. Thats 100% what he meant by it.

He asked if I had any questions. I asked him if my personal life (surrounding around horses) had anything to do with it. He knows just how invested I am in the horse world. He said of course not, he understood it was my biggest passion in life, etc, but I have a gut feeling it was a factor. Most definitely a factor.

Tonight is the companies annual Christmas get together where people are wrapping gifts, doing a cookie exchange at the office. I think that email I sent out a month ago saying how I was going to pass on attending that night was a factor.

He probably feels that horses are more important to me than the job. I am almost 100% certain this was it. He felt my heart wasnt with the company and that I was too invested in the horseworld.


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## Hoofpic

Zimpatico said:


> Oh that's horrible! Sadly, it's year end and happening to a lot of folks. We just let a lot of our team go last week. Why does this always have to happen right around the holidays?


But your team got let go because of the economy right? I got let go because of me. It never feels good getting let go on bad terms.



anndankev said:


> I am so sorry to hear this, a terrible time of year to happen.
> 
> Advice from someone who has lost their job before (me) is to file for whatever type of unemployment benefits are available immediately. Right now.
> 
> It takes a while for any benefits to start up, and they can be a great help while looking for another job.


Yes I plan on doing this. I have to make one more trip in the next couple days to drop off the signed agreement to my boss and they will hand me a record of employment on the spot.

I could be wrong but Im almost certain you can only get EI if you get laid off, not let go.


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## anndankev

What does the paper say that they want you to sign say?

Don't put your own thoughts as to why into their words, or respond to them as if that is what they think/said/meant.

What you related that he said would leave you eligible for Unemployment here.

It only needs to be through no fault of your own.

He did not point out a fault, only that the company is expanding. That in particular puts the 'fault' at their doorstep.

I worked as a bookkeeper for 40+ years, handled from an employer viewpoint cases of ex-employee's filing. As well as my own filing for benefits.

You are best off to file immediately. As the Unemployment Dept will not pay benefits back past your filing date, regardless of the date you stopped working.

Most companies will require a separated employee to leave immediately, not even finish the day. I believe that is due to a general fear they have that spiteful damage could be caused. Either physical, or with their clients, or by collecting and taking their data or property.

I have known companies who will not even allow an employee who quits giving a two week notice to work the rest of the time.


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## Zimpatico

Did they specifically say that it was performance related? Most of the individuals we have let go were due to changes in the organizational structure and not really having a spot where they were a good fit. It didn't really mean they weren't doing a good job. My boss can seem very cold when he's going through the process, similar sounding to your experience. Afterwards, he has to go for a walk and clear his head. He tries so hard to be emotionally detached but it always gets to him. And we too have HR or security standing by to escort everyone out of the building. Unfortunately, it's company policy here, but makes people feel like criminals. I am so sorry this happened to you. I've gone through it twice over my career. It's so hard to see it now, but this really has more to do with the company than it does with you personally. You are not a bad employee, you are not a bad person, and you WILL find another job that is probably a better fit where you will be so much happier!! 

File for UC right NOW, get a bottle of wine, pick out lots of pjs, and enjoy the holidays. Set a plan to hit the ground running next week to brush up your resume, hit your job search hard the week between Christmas and New Years, then get ready to start talking to people as soon as they return to work on January 4th!


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## HombresArablegacy

_Posted via Mobile Device_

Well, the timing really sucks, just before Christmas, and the party tonight. I'm really sorry. You need to look over that form he gave you before you sign and return it. Make sure the wording doesn't preclude you from drawing unemployment. 
As for them making you pack up and leave, sadly most companies operate that way. They don't want any disgruntled ex employees going crazy on them.

Call your local unemployment office, explain the circumstances under which you were let go, and ask if you qualify for benefits. You should, unless you were fired for gross negligence, theft, or a dui. And file as soon as you can, the process may be delayed due to the holidays, so the sooner you file, the sooner you get approved.


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## Hoofpic

:blueunicorn:


anndankev said:


> What does the paper say that they want you to sign say?
> 
> 
> 
> Don't put your own thoughts as to why into their words, or respond to them as if that is what they think/said/meant.
> 
> What you related that he said would leave you eligible for Unemployment here.
> 
> It only needs to be through no fault of your own.
> 
> He did not point out a fault, only that the company is expanding. That in particular puts the 'fault' at their doorstep.
> 
> I worked as a bookkeeper for 40+ years, handled from an employer viewpoint cases of ex-employee's filing. As well as my own filing for benefits.
> 
> You are best off to file immediately. As the Unemployment Dept will not pay benefits back past your filing date, regardless of the date you stopped working.
> 
> Most companies will require a separated employee to leave immediately, not even finish the day. I believe that is due to a general fear they have that spiteful damage could be caused. Either physical, or with their clients, or by collecting and taking their data or property.
> 
> I have known companies who will not even allow an employee who quits giving a two week notice to work the rest of the time.


If I scan the papers (3 or 4) would you be willing to take a quick look for me and let me know what you think?

He said the company is expanding but I have a feel its 100% me. 

1) I wasnt a fit in the company (personality wise, im in introvert, and didnt mingle much and I didnt really have anything in common with anyone there). I was an outcast and my boss knew it. My boss and I are complete opposites in terms of personality. Complete opposites. 

2) My performance did take a hit in the spring and summer, I was well aware of it and I did everything i could to pick up the slack to get back to where I was. Not so much that I didnt get the job done but that distractions got to me. Lack of focus at times, just some misques that i wouldnt make before. Ive been busting my tail off since then to make up for it cause i knew I had to. Yes the reason that caused my lack of focus at times and a drop in my performance was my investment in horses.

3) There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that my passion for the horse world was a factor, and IMO perhaps the biggest. My boss knew the amount of time I invest into the horse world and (I mean just look at my schedule), it will say it all. He most likely felt it was a huge distraction and detrement to my job in the company.

You know how I know, that my passion for horses was a factor? and perhaps THE factor.

After he said that the company was expanding...yada yada yada, these words told it all "but if you ever teach classes on horses, I think you would be great doing that"

That right there says it all. He felt my heart wasnt with the company anymore and it was in the horse world.


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## beau159

I'm really sorry. That stinks. 

Not to mention how SUDDEN. Just pack up and leave. 



Hoofpic said:


> 1) I wasnt a fit in the company (personality wise, im in introvert, and didnt mingle much and I didnt really have anything in common with anyone there). I was an outcast and my boss knew it. My boss and I are complete opposites in terms of personality. Complete opposites.
> 
> 2) My performance did take a hit in the spring and summer, I was well aware of it and I did everything i could to pick up the slack to get back to where I was. Not so much that I didnt get the job done but that distractions got to me. Lack of focus at times, just some misques that i wouldnt make before. Ive been busting my tail off since then to make up for it cause i knew I had to. Yes the reason that caused my lack of focus at times and a drop in my performance was my investment in horses.


With the company expanding, do you think they are "doing away" with your position? I'm trying to think of why that would be a valid reason.

Most states do have "at will" employment, but to keep yourself out of legal hot water, you NEED to have a valid reason. 

The performance could be a valid reason. However, what steps did your boss take to outline the issue and what steps had to be failed for you to be fired. 

I guess it kinda depends on how the job economy is in your area. If you can find work elsewhere, I guess I wouldn't put too much thought into it. Do what you need to do to cope with the loss, and then set to work finding a new job. 

But if it's going to be a pretty big hardship to find another job .... I'm just really not convinced that you were rightfully terminated. It just all sounds so fishy. 

I would absolutely file for unemployement. They made it sound "mushy" on why you were let go, not a stark "you're fired b/c of x, y, and z." They need to have a valid reason for letting you go ..... and I really don't see that personality traits have anything to do with it. If you aren't doing your job, that's another thing (maybe you are supposed to greet and smile with people and you never smile and are a grouch, and they brought it to your attention and you never changed). But I don't see that it's valid to lay someone off because "your an introvert".

Again, I'm sorry.


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## Hoofpic

Ok im not going to sign the papers until i have more eyes on it. Mostly that im still able to sign up for EI if i wanted.
Im going to scan the papers and if anyone here is interested in peeking at them, send me a PM and id be oh so grateful!!!!!!


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## jaydee

You're in Canada?
Surely employment rights there don't allow people to be fired because their employer doesn't like them on a personal level?
Do you not have tribunal hearings there?
If you do your job badly then they have to show evidence of that surely?


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## Hoofpic

Zimpatico said:


> Did they specifically say that it was performance related? Most of the individuals we have let go were due to changes in the organizational structure and not really having a spot where they were a good fit. It didn't really mean they weren't doing a good job. My boss can seem very cold when he's going through the process, similar sounding to your experience. Afterwards, he has to go for a walk and clear his head. He tries so hard to be emotionally detached but it always gets to him. And we too have HR or security standing by to escort everyone out of the building. Unfortunately, it's company policy here, but makes people feel like criminals. I am so sorry this happened to you. I've gone through it twice over my career. It's so hard to see it now, but this really has more to do with the company than it does with you personally. You are not a bad employee, you are not a bad person, and you WILL find another job that is probably a better fit where you will be so much happier!!
> 
> File for UC right NOW, get a bottle of wine, pick out lots of pjs, and enjoy the holidays. Set a plan to hit the ground running next week to brush up your resume, hit your job search hard the week between Christmas and New Years, then get ready to start talking to people as soon as they return to work on January 4th!


The dip that I took in my performance for part of this year was a factor, but I truly deep down know it was because I wasnt a fit in the company.

Like I said, I was in outcast there. I didnt have anything in common with a single person there. Not one. I always took my lunches alone, I never socialized with anyone really. But again my job was pretty much working on my own anyways.

There is one girl there (Who I dont work with, but do have to exchange emails now and then) who we dont like each other at all. I dont like her because she doesnt know how to talk to me with respect and never has. About 2 months ago, she lashed out on me like a maniac, yelling, pulling her hair, saying how I was so hard to communicate with, while Im sitting there 100% keeping my composure. I never lash out on anyone ever! Here she is acting so unprofessionally, acting like a child, (thankfully for her, no managers were around that day). Im sure this has gone around and 100% **** right my boss found out about it and the fact this girl and I dont get along was a factor.

Me not paricipating in tonights christmas get together was definitely another factor.

But the fact that I am so mentally, emotionally and physically invested into the horse world that it made my boss question if I was a good fit with the company.

Even though I asked him if this was a factor and he said no. I dont believe it, cause I know 100% it was most definitely a factor if not THE factor.

I will admit, this year (because of how fast I got into horses more and more), I did question my career and whether or not my heart was still here. I even had a thread about it on here. It doesnt mean I didnt enjoy what I did for the company, I still did, it just wasnt my #1 interest in life (which is completely normal as many people are working jobs that arent their #1 passion in life).

I just wish my boss would have told me to my face on why I got let go. I can understand his reasoning, as for not having me potentially lash out (which is not like me), but he said the reasoning was in the papers and when I read it (read it 3 times now) it has zero reason as to why I was let go.

But I now know why. Like I said his quote "but if you ever decide to teach classes on horses, I think you would be great doing that"

That right there says it all. He felt my heart wasnt with the company anymore and it was in the horse world.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I really think you're reading too much into it. 

I manage a hotel. We have a small staff of eleven people, including myself. I have a few employees who have very strong personalities. I have others who prefer to be left alone. I also have one who doesn't get along with anyone if they don't kiss her butt (she's the assistant manager and expects me to force the other employees to respect her).

I have had to let several people go since I took over ten months ago. Never once was it personal. Poor performance, stealing, violating company policy, yes. I have never fired anyone because of their interests outside of work or for not wanting to participate in extracurricular company activities. That's just ludicrous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I don't know what you've been doing for a living, but obviously it pays fairly well since you can afford a horse. So, you must not be too bad at whatever it was. Take a few days to let your nerves calm down and your head to clear and then, take a deep breath and focus on moving forward. I have 2 things that I like to remind myself of when things get tough. 

#1. Anxiety is experiencing failure that hasn't occurred yet. 

That can mean a lot of different things. It can be job performance, personal relationship performance or physical activity performance. Whatever makes you feel like you haven't measured up causes anxiety. 

Frequently, even though we can't see it at the time, it's simply an opportunity for growth shaking us out of our comfort zone. Because we're so freaked out, we can't recognize it right away. 

#2. Success is standing on a pile of failures rather than lying under them. 

Pretty self explanatory, eh? Stand on that pile.


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## Woodhaven

Hoofpic, if as you said, your employer said the dismissal was due to Company expansion and not some thing you did or didn't do, can you ask them to give you a reference.
If you were good at your job they should be able to do this for you and it might help to have one to add to your resume.
Good luck to you and I hope you can still have a Merry Christmas and try not to worry too much


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## Hoofpic

beau159 said:


> With the company expanding, do you think they are "doing away" with your position? I'm trying to think of why that would be a valid reason.


Theyre not really expanding, (I knew that was a BS reason), what he meant was that expectations for each staff member have just expanded and risen more. 

I already know the reason why he let me go, its just too bad he couldnt just spill the beans to me instead of beating around the bush. I will always respect someone who is upfront with me (even if the truth hurts) than one who beats around the bush.

Im just totally caught off guard by how sudden it was. There was no warning, no nothing.

I will say though, it most definitely was on his mind for months. He lets me go before the year end review and that way it saves the company from having to pay me for Christmas, boxing day and new years (as well as 3 vac days I had booked for next week and the week after).

A bit chinzsy if you ask me. Cheating me out on those 3 vacation days I had upcoming, let me go now so they dont have to pay me for them.



> The performance could be a valid reason. However, what steps did your boss take to outline the issue and what steps had to be failed for you to be fired.


He didnt really take any steps (this year at least) really. Just bit lack of focus at times through the spring and summer. Not everyday but on occasion.
I am also learning disabled and A.D.D at times so I learn differently than others.



> I guess it kinda depends on how the job economy is in your area. If you can find work elsewhere, I guess I wouldn't put too much thought into it. Do what you need to do to cope with the loss, and then set to work finding a new job.


Awhile back I considered leaving my job if I was able to find one in the horse world - whether its working at one, etc. Now might not be a better time to persue that.




> But if it's going to be a pretty big hardship to find another job .... I'm just really not convinced that you were rightfully terminated. It just all sounds so fishy.


Yes it does and it ****es me off that he couldnt even give me a flat out reason.



> I would absolutely file for unemployement. They made it sound "mushy" on why you were let go, not a stark "you're fired b/c of x, y, and z." They need to have a valid reason for letting you go ..... and I really don't see that personality traits have anything to do with it. If you aren't doing your job, that's another thing (maybe you are supposed to greet and smile with people and you never smile and are a grouch, and they brought it to your attention and you never changed). But I don't see that it's valid to lay someone off because "your an introvert".


I agree. But like I said, sometimes other peoples emotions are out of your control. I will file for E.I forsure. Im choked. I did so much for them and this is how they show me the door? By giving me a BS, lazy excuse.



> Again, I'm sorry.


Thanks. Im a bit more calm now, but really tomorrow I will wake up and it will really sink in that im no longer with the company and my life has changed.


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## Hoofpic

THIS SUCKS! Was planning on seeing my mare tonight and working on some stuff with her but I probably shouldnt go see her. She will sense my intense emotions right now wont she?!


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## Hoofpic

jaydee said:


> You're in Canada?
> Surely employment rights there don't allow people to be fired because their employer doesn't like them on a personal level?
> Do you not have tribunal hearings there?
> If you do your job badly then they have to show evidence of that surely?


My boss and I had a great "working" relationship but thats it. We are complete opposites in terms of personalities, interests, etc. Our working relationship was great but you would never catch us asking how each others weekend was, or what we did over the weeekend, or vacation, because we were so different. What he was into, I wasnt into and vice versa. We live completely different lifestyles and have very different opinions on different areas of life. I do feel that it eventually caught up to me.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Hoofpic said:


> THIS SUCKS! Was planning on seeing my mare tonight and working on some stuff with her but I probably shouldnt go see her. She will sense my intense emotions right now wont she?!


Well, if it was me, my horses would be the first place I'd go. There's just something intensely calming about horse hair and that smell. I wouldn't try to work on anything, just hug and brush and feed some treats, but I tell all my problems and stories and triumphs and woes to my horses; usually Patti. Oh and yes, they'll pick up that you're upset. Usually, my horses slow waaaay down and just let me hug and pet when I'm really upset.


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## beau159

Hoofpic said:


> The dip that I took in my performance for part of this year was a factor, but I truly deep down know it was because I wasnt a fit in the company.
> 
> Like I said, I was in outcast there. I didnt have anything in common with a single person there. Not one. I always took my lunches alone, I never socialized with anyone really. But again my job was pretty much working on my own anyways.
> 
> Im sure this has gone around and 100% **** right my boss found out about it and the fact this girl and I dont get along was a factor.
> 
> Me not paricipating in tonights christmas get together was definitely another factor.
> 
> But the fact that I am so mentally, emotionally and physically invested into the horse world that it made my boss question if I was a good fit with the company.
> 
> Even though I asked him if this was a factor and he said no. I dont believe it, cause I know 100% it was most definitely a factor if not THE factor.
> 
> I just wish my boss would have told me to my face on why I got let go. I can understand his reasoning, as for not having me potentially lash out (which is not like me), but he said the reasoning was in the papers and when I read it (read it 3 times now) it has zero reason as to why I was let go.


I understand that it's still pretty fresh and you are upset about it, but I think you need to get a good night's sleep on it. 

You're really making a lot of assumptions. 

I've never heard of anyone being fired for not being able to make it to the office christmas party. Not everyone's schedules always work out. I'm sure there are others who won't be there. 

Granted, I didn't realize you were in Canada, so I have no idea how the labor laws differ in Canada compared to the US.



Hoofpic said:


> I will say though, it most definitely was on his mind for months. He lets me go before the year end review and that way it saves the company from having to pay me for Christmas, boxing day and new years (as well as 3 vac days I had booked for next week and the week after).
> 
> A bit chinzsy if you ask me. Cheating me out on those 3 vacation days I had upcoming, let me go now so they dont have to pay me for them.


How do you know it was on his mind for months?

Again, kind of an assumption that they "planned" to let you go before the holidays. I get that you are upset, but these are just that: assumptions. 


I'll gladly take a look at the documents if you want to PM them to me. But again, I guess I'm very familiar with US labor laws .... not so much with Canada!


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## klstarrs

Hugs hoofpic, sounds like they planned this for a while but kept quiet.. until the last minute, have you got your original contract that might indicate notice periods, set contract end dates, diciplinary clauses etc. (I'm in Uk so things differ here so can't really advise you). It does sound like you are being dumped out mainly because you 'aren't the social butterfly'??? and have a life outside work that doesn't match the rest of the work mates but that is not grounds for dismissal. 

I feel for you!


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## Hoofpic

Well just confirmed that the contract says I cant file for E.I.

Knew it! I should have expected this from the company. 

Yes they are giving me a 1 month severance package when I decide to bring back this signed paper to them, but still......I knew it!


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## Hoofpic

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Well, if it was me, my horses would be the first place I'd go. There's just something intensely calming about horse hair and that smell. I wouldn't try to work on anything, just hug and brush and feed some treats, but I tell all my problems and stories and triumphs and woes to my horses; usually Patti. Oh and yes, they'll pick up that you're upset. Usually, my horses slow waaaay down and just let me hug and pet when I'm really upset.


I hate to say it, but (I know you dont want to hear this) but I feel like crying. It would be confused tears, not tears of sadness. If I cried around my mare, she would reflect off that which I dont want.

You know what? I will go see my mare tonight. I perhaps wont work on anything with her, (because I just dont have the mindset on track right now), but I will go see to just be around her. Talk to her.

Im staying strong but it just makes me upset not being told the truth on why I was let go, but instead i had to figure it out myself. For someone who gave it their all to them, that is a slap in my face. 

When I go back to collect my severance cheque, Im going to demand a reason on why I was let go. "Expanding" is just not going to cut it. Im going to tell him, "if I dont know why, then how am I suppose to learn and grow from it?"


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## Hoofpic

Woodhaven said:


> Hoofpic, if as you said, your employer said the dismissal was due to Company expansion and not some thing you did or didn't do, can you ask them to give you a reference.
> If you were good at your job they should be able to do this for you and it might help to have one to add to your resume.
> Good luck to you and I hope you can still have a Merry Christmas and try not to worry too much


I would say 100% no chance in getting a referall from them. In fact we didnt even shake hands today and to be quite honest, if my boss cant give me a valid reason as to why I was let go, I will not shake his hand when I see him for the final time in the next day or two. I will probably go see him on Thurs or Fri. 

I do not want him to see me with my feathers roughed up when I go see him. It will clearly show that this has truly bothered me. I need to shake it off, go see him (like as if Im at the barn) with my head up, chin up, shoulders back and walk in with a purpose and leave with a purpose and SHOW HIM THAT I HAVE CLEARLY AND ALREADY MOVED ON FROM THE COMPANY!

When you dont let stuff like this get to you for long, it clearly shows how strong of a person you are.


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## klstarrs

Hoofpic said:


> I hate to say it, but (I know you dont want to hear this) but I feel like crying. It would be confused tears, not tears of sadness. If I cried around my mare, she would reflect off that which I dont want.
> 
> You know what? I will go see my mare tonight. I perhaps wont work on anything with her, (because I just dont have the mindset on track right now), but I will go see to just be around her. Talk to her.
> 
> Im staying strong but it just makes me upset not being told the truth on why I was let go, but instead i had to figure it out myself. For someone who gave it their all to them, that is a slap in my face.
> 
> When I go back to collect my severance cheque, Im going to demand a reason on why I was let go. "Expanding" is just not going to cut it. Im going to tell him, "if I dont know why, then how am I suppose to learn and grow from it?"



You are right with your thinking, need legit reasons and in regards to crying.. your horse is your best friend! hugs while you let those tears out won't damage her as long as you let her know you love her and talk/whisper.. give her hugs and groom.. when you get angry take it out on the wheel barrow or something at the muck heap etc.

There's something wrong with the reasons but wait til you have got a clear head after the shock to look at the legal side. xx


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## Hoofpic

beau159 said:


> I understand that it's still pretty fresh and you are upset about it, but I think you need to get a good night's sleep on it.
> 
> You're really making a lot of assumptions.
> 
> I've never heard of anyone being fired for not being able to make it to the office christmas party. Not everyone's schedules always work out. I'm sure there are others who won't be there.
> 
> Granted, I didn't realize you were in Canada, so I have no idea how the labor laws differ in Canada compared to the US.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know it was on his mind for months?
> 
> Again, kind of an assumption that they "planned" to let you go before the holidays. I get that you are upset, but these are just that: assumptions.
> 
> 
> I'll gladly take a look at the documents if you want to PM them to me. But again, I guess I'm very familiar with US labor laws .... not so much with Canada!


It most definitely was on my bosses mind (at least on the back of his mind) for months. He lets me go just before the evening get together tonight, just before the office Christmas breakfast (tomorrow morning), and before Christmas and before my 3 vac days I had booked. He obviously did it right now to avoid the company from having to pay me 5 extra days in wages. Thats a bit sneaky if you ask me. Legal yes. But sneaky.

And the most insulting factor was that the Christmas bonus he gave me today, was the same amount as last year. What does that tell you? Exactly! He clearly felt that my performance hasnt gone up this year to warrant a bigger bonus.

What I dont get is why he lets me go "6 days" after we had our "team building" meeting last Wed night?! Where we all talked about our roles in getting to know each other more.

You know the whole timing of this all just really baffles me. I can almost assure you that my boss came into the office this morning not knowing 100% if he was going to let me go and that he made his decision at some point in the morning.

Like I said, I had a bad feeling when he asked me to debrief at 1pm. I really did. It was probably the most uncomfortable lunch Ive ever taken. I was almost going to cut my lunch short so that I could meet him sooner to get it over with. When I got back in the office and saw the payroll person in his office talking to him, I knew something was up!!!! 

What I didnt expect was him giving me some lazy excuse as to why I was let go. I would have thought he at least would have had the courage to tell me what went wrong to my face. I have lost respect for him. If he cant tell me (when I go in on Thurs or Fri) why exactly I was let go, then I will lose all respect for him as a person and I will not shake his hand. If he offers to shake hands, I might even refuse and walk away. I dont like burning bridges (I really really dont) but our bridge is already burned if he cant give me a reason, theres nothing left.

Today he seemed sincere about it as I was packing up and leaving, but I cant tell if it was real sincerety or just an act. Im guessing it was the latter.


----------



## HombresArablegacy

Hoofpic said:


> Well just confirmed that the contract says I cant file for E.I.
> 
> Knew it! I should have expected this from the company.
> 
> Yes they are giving me a 1 month severance package when I decide to bring back this signed paper to them, but still......I knew it!



Based on a hunch, I would bet that they're dangling the severance pay in front of you so you won't file for unemployment. And, FYI, companies do not offer severance pay if they fire you. So, if you do NOT sign the form agreeing to their terms, then you most probably do qualify for Unemployment pay. You were laid off due to no fault of your own.

In 2004 I and all the other sales reps were laid off. I was offered 1 week of severance pay for each year I had worked there. But.....I had to sign a waiver saying I would not sue the company for any reason in order to receive the severance pay. 
I soon found out in talking to the other reps (all male, I was the only woman ) that they were all being paid about $15K a year more than me, and some had less experience and had been hired after me!!!! I was beyond furious.

So, before you sign and accept their terms and severance pay, which is only 4 weeks worth, I strongly suggest you contact your unemployment office to make sure you qualify for benefits. 4 weeks pay versus how many weeks of unemployment benefits, do the math. Here, it's 26 weeks. So, yeah, they're trying to get out of paying unemployment benefits. 
Again, let me reiterate: Employers do NOT offer severance pay to employees that are fired for just cause. You were laid off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greentree

Hoofpic, I am SO sorry to hear this! Your horse is there for you!

Do you have a university degree?

No LIKE button visible on Hombres post ...but she is so right!!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Hoofpic said:


> I hate to say it, but (I know you dont want to hear this) but I feel like crying. It would be confused tears, not tears of sadness. If I cried around my mare, she would reflect off that which I dont want.
> 
> You know what? I will go see my mare tonight. I perhaps wont work on anything with her, (because I just dont have the mindset on track right now), but I will go see to just be around her. Talk to her.
> 
> Im staying strong but it just makes me upset not being told the truth on why I was let go, but instead i had to figure it out myself. For someone who gave it their all to them, that is a slap in my face.
> 
> When I go back to collect my severance cheque, Im going to demand a reason on why I was let go. "Expanding" is just not going to cut it. Im going to tell him, "if I dont know why, then how am I suppose to learn and grow from it?"


Horse hair is the most tear absorbent material known to man. If it wasn't, my horse would have drowned when I found out my first trainer's father was dying of lung cancer. I was very attached to both my trainer (Little Jack) and his father, (Pappa Jack). It was devastating to me at the time and I sogged up plenty of mane and neck hair while I was adjusting to the news. There have been plenty of other occasions, but none quite as wet as that one, I don't think. So, if you need to cry your confusion out, there's no better place to do it than on a horse's neck. Tell your mare all about your confusion and unhappiness. Just let it all out and she will listen. She may not have much to say or any advice to give but she'll certainly pass on some of her calming spirit. Just the feel of her under your hands and the smell of her neck hair in your nostrils will help bring you peace. And once you've let it all out, tell her what a great confidant she is and pet her and groom her. She'll understand. The best thing about it, if you're sure there's no one else to hear, she'll never pass it on. 

For the rest of it, I think you're hurt and angry and haven't had time to absorb the lessons in this. There are a few but you need to calm down and open up your mind in order take them in. You're not ready yet, and that's ok. 

Don't rush back to the office yet. Maybe even give it until Monday, for you to really calm down and come to grips with this. It's pretty earth shaking news and you need time.


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## Hoofpic

HombresArablegacy said:


> Based on a hunch, I would bet that they're dangling the severance pay in front of you so you won't file for unemployment. And, FYI, companies do not offer severance pay if they fire you. So, if you do NOT sign the form agreeing to their terms, then you most probably do qualify for Unemployment pay. You were laid off due to no fault of your own.
> 
> In 2004 I and all the other sales reps were laid off. I was offered 1 week of severance pay for each year I had worked there. But.....I had to sign a waiver saying I would not sue the company for any reason in order to receive the severance pay.
> I soon found out in talking to the other reps (all male, I was the only woman ) that they were all being paid about $15K a year more than me, and some had less experience and had been hired after me!!!! I was beyond furious.
> 
> So, before you sign and accept their terms and severance pay, which is only 4 weeks worth, I strongly suggest you contact your unemployment office to make sure you qualify for benefits. 4 weeks pay versus how many weeks of unemployment benefits, do the math. Here, it's 26 weeks. So, yeah, they're trying to get out of paying unemployment benefits.
> Again, let me reiterate: Employers do NOT offer severance pay to employees that are fired for just cause. You were laid off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks so much about the clarification on being laid off and fired.

Being let go = being fired, right?

Ive never been laid off before. This is basically when they say they no longer need you.

I totally never knew that companies never offer severance pay when letting go of people cause I always thought being fired was different from being let go.

I will call my E.I office tomorrow but I wont be able to get my record of employment until I had back the paper. Will they accept an unsigned paper? Perhaps but I wont get the severance. Im not 100% sure if they will accept an unsigned paper.

The only thing that scares me with EI (here in canada, maybe different in the U.S?), is that the E.I office has to contact your employer to confirm that you worked for them, your worked hours, reasoning behind being let go etc. The employer could always and easily just make stuff up to get out of it and screw you over.


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## Hoofpic

klstarrs said:


> Hugs hoofpic, sounds like they planned this for a while but kept quiet.. until the last minute, have you got your original contract that might indicate notice periods, set contract end dates, diciplinary clauses etc. (I'm in Uk so things differ here so can't really advise you). It does sound like you are being dumped out mainly because you 'aren't the social butterfly'??? and have a life outside work that doesn't match the rest of the work mates but that is not grounds for dismissal.
> 
> I feel for you!


I know deep down it was a bunch of things and factors accumlating over time that led to this decision, I would say going back as far as March, April of this year. But at the end of the day, my boss even said it best "if you ever decide to teach about horses, I think you would do great!" He couldnt be anymore black and white with that response. He sees me better in the horse world than with the company.

What I didnt appreciate is him lying and denying that "me heavily into horses" was a factor in his decision when clearly (by his statement it was!!!)

That and the fact my Christmas bonus this year was the exact same amount from last year (which was insulting, seeing how I got a raise last Christmas).

Im not a fit in the company anymore and Im not up to snuff. Boss talked about how the company is expanding (which is his version of staff expecations and roles are rising), so he basically has no confidence in me being able to fill the bigger shoes.

He just feels that if he found someone who wasnt so heavily invested in horses, that he would feel they could contribute more to the company after hours, at events, etc,


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## Jan1975

Oh no, I am so sorry. I'm sure another door will open up but right now this is really sucky!


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## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> Hoofpic, I am SO sorry to hear this! Your horse is there for you!
> 
> Do you have a university degree?
> 
> No LIKE button visible on Hombres post ...but she is so right!!


I have a diploma, but honestly....I want to work in the horse world. I would love nothing more than to work at a barn/stable and be around horses all day. As crazy as it sounds, I really do miss mucking paddocks and doing the barn chores.


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## farmpony84

I'm not in Canada so I don't know how different things are for you but I know that where I work you get walked out immediately but it's because of what we do there. I'm not sure what you do but that could be why you were walked out.

You have a right to ask WHY you were let go and I think you should for a couple reasons, one, they may not be on the up an up with this. There are protocols that have to be followed and if they didn't follow them you can appeal. Of course, I'm not Canadian so your rights could be different. Also you need to know if there was something you did wrong, because you can't fix it unless you know about it.

Also, getting let go does not mean the same thing as being fired. Being fired is bad. Being let go to me sound like they didn't need you, they needed a budget cut, they reorganized... whatever but being fired is being fired so you'll have to see how they worded your termination letter. Is the box for rehire eligibility checked?

As for crying... oh yeah, cry your eyes out. I know I would. Good golly, loosing your job is bad enough but right before the holidays and in the winter months. Yuck.

BUT.... Know that things like this can be a blessing. You may find the better job, the better people, the happier place. Keep your mind open and do whatever crap job you have to for now to pay your bills but find that better job.

Don't feel bad about yourself. You hold your head up and you make lemonade.


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## egrogan

I totally agree with farm pony. You're jumping to a lot of big conclusions about your boss's motivations. But if you look back to what you wrote in your first page, you said "I didn't even ask why." When you didn't ask, he didn't tell. He may NOT be able to tell you per company policy (I work for an at will employer in an at will state, so that effects how I might handle letting someone go. I don't know anything about Canada). Most managers are counseled to say as little as possible in termination conversations. The more you run your mouth or over explain when letting someone go, the more mistakes you're likely to make.

If I were you, I would contact human resources tomorrow and ask them for the rationale.

Oh, and his comment about you being successful teaching a horse class? Honestly, I think it's a sign of him being human and trying to say something nice to you in the midst of a difficult moment, knowing it's a hobby you're passionate about. 

Really sorry this happened to you, it's terrible timing and such an uncomfortable situation to be in. Take some time to update your resume, and really think about the parts of your job you did enjoy so you can target your job search to find a better fit next time. Since you don't enjoy the in-person office culture, have you ever explored jobs working in a virtual position?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofpic

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Horse hair is the most tear absorbent material known to man. If it wasn't, my horse would have drowned when I found out my first trainer's father was dying of lung cancer. I was very attached to both my trainer (Little Jack) and his father, (Pappa Jack). It was devastating to me at the time and I sogged up plenty of mane and neck hair while I was adjusting to the news. There have been plenty of other occasions, but none quite as wet as that one, I don't think. So, if you need to cry your confusion out, there's no better place to do it than on a horse's neck. Tell your mare all about your confusion and unhappiness. Just let it all out and she will listen. She may not have much to say or any advice to give but she'll certainly pass on some of her calming spirit. Just the feel of her under your hands and the smell of her neck hair in your nostrils will help bring you peace. And once you've let it all out, tell her what a great confidant she is and pet her and groom her. She'll understand. The best thing about it, if you're sure there's no one else to hear, she'll never pass it on.
> 
> For the rest of it, I think you're hurt and angry and haven't had time to absorb the lessons in this. There are a few but you need to calm down and open up your mind in order take them in. You're not ready yet, and that's ok.
> 
> Don't rush back to the office yet. Maybe even give it until Monday, for you to really calm down and come to grips with this. It's pretty earth shaking news and you need time.


Thank you - im going to see her right nowinkunicorn: It will be interesting to see how I am when I get there. I always thought if she saw me crying she would not see that as leader behaviour.


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## Hoofpic

egrogan said:


> I totally agree with farm pony. You're jumping to a lot of big conclusions about your boss's motivations. But if you look back to what you wrote in your first page, you said "I didn't even ask why." When you didn't ask, he didn't tell. He may NOT be able to tell you per company policy (I work for an at will employer in an at will state, so that effects how I might handle letting someone go. I don't know anything about Canada). Most managers are counseled to say as little as possible in termination conversations. The more you run your mouth or over explain when letting someone go, the more mistakes you're likely to make.
> 
> If I were you, I would contact human resources tomorrow and ask them for the rationale.
> 
> Oh, and his comment about you being successful teaching a horse class? Honestly, I think it's a sign of him being human and trying to say something nice to you in the midst of a difficult moment, knowing it's a hobby you're passionate about.
> 
> Really sorry this happened to you, it's terrible timing and such an uncomfortable situation to be in. Take some time to update your resume, and really think about the parts of your job you did enjoy so you can target your job search to find a better fit next time. Since you don't enjoy the in-person office culture, have you ever explored jobs working in a virtual position?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FarmPony, I will reply to you later but I wanted to reply to this one first.

Egrogan - I see where you are coming from. I do think a reason why my boss didnt say much was because he was trying to cover his own butt and not risk getting himself in trouble. 

The reason I say this is because when he gave me my papers, he wouldnt even let me read them in his office. He said I need to take them home and I cant bring them back until at least 24 hours later. He said that if I read them in his office, he might get in trouble for forcing me to read and sign at the time or termination or something along those lines.

You know what? I go see him and ask again for reasoning, I know hes not going to give it. I know him well enough by now that he is a man of his words, he never lets anything slide. 

I could call HR tomorrow, but what if my boss gets upset after he finds out from HR that I contacted them?

Like I said, my boss seemed sincere about it all but I cant tell if it was honest sincerety or he was putting on an act.

I could be wrong but when companies let staff go, dont they usually offer to be used as a referall? So to me that tells me I was dismissed on bad terms.


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## egrogan

I wouldn't worry about what the boss thinks about you contacting HR. Focus on what YOU need, which is clarification about what happened so you can a) pursue unemployment and b) think about how to best position yourself for your next job.

But I agree with everyone else, take some comfort from your horse tonight, try to get some sleep, and approach things with a fresh mind tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofpic

I'm not going to see my mare tonight, I will go see her tomorrow afternoon.

I was about to head out the door and changed my mind. I want to stay on here and chat with you guys.

Im just still in shock, I havent accepted whats happened. It hasnt sunk in yet. Im just so out of it right now.


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## Hoofpic

egrogan said:


> I wouldn't worry about what the boss thinks about you contacting HR. Focus on what YOU need, which is clarification about what happened so you can a) pursue unemployment and b) think about how to best position yourself for your next job.
> 
> But I agree with everyone else, take some comfort from your horse tonight, try to get some sleep, and approach things with a fresh mind tomorrow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only thing is that, my HR is my boss since he is the one who hired me. I never went through an HR person.

I could contact payroll, but not sure if she is the right person to answer but I did see my boss sit and talk with her today. But again, he very well could have not told her anything but to write out my final cheques.


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## Speed Racer

While I wholeheartedly sympathize with your predicament, I honestly don't believe your personal life had one thing to do with your being let go.

You admitted that your performance has been lacking, and you don't seem to know how to socialize with coworkers. Being part of a team means being able to deal with diverse personality types, and it appears that you put out zero effort.

The business world is all about getting along with coworkers and superiors, as well as putting in superlative results. I'm not the most sociable of people, but you'd never know it because I've learned how to play the game.

You don't have to attend extracurricular activities but you do need to make an effort to appear interested and engaged, especially when it comes to team building situations.

I've been in your shoes more than once over the 40 continuous years I've been working, and you need to stop thinking your former supervisor was out to get you because you like horses. I can guarantee you that he was given the unhappy task of picking one or more people to let go, and you're probably just the first, but won't be the last.

Cry and feel sorry for yourself for a day or two, then hit the ground running. Be proactive, positive, go to as many interviews as you can, even for jobs you don't think you want , and never, ever trash talk your previous employer. When asked why you're seeking employment, just say your position was eliminated. It happens, and that answer satisfies every hiring manager.


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## gingerscout

That really sucks, I am sorry, my Mom's work called in everyone to a meeting last month the day before Thanksgiving and during everyone eating they said they had to lay a bunch of people off, and while they were eating 1/3 of the entire office was told to clean out their desks after eating.. so it could be worse


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## EponaLynn

So sorry Hoofpic . I am Canadian too, what Province are you in and how long have you worked for the company? 

Also, how many reviews have you had, and have they been good? Have you had any warnings at all?

I might call a lawyer before you sign the papers as sometimes a letter from a lawyer can drastically change the amount of severance pay you get (this happened to me years ago).

Good luck!


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## DraftyAiresMum

Hoofpic said:


> My boss and I had a great "working" relationship but thats it. We are complete opposites in terms of personalities, interests, etc. Our working relationship was great but you would never catch us asking how each others weekend was, or what we did over the weeekend, or vacation, because we were so different. What he was into, I wasnt into and vice versa. We live completely different lifestyles and have very different opinions on different areas of life. I do feel that it eventually caught up to me.


Sorry, again, a big jump here.

If I fired every employee who didn't share my interests and whose lifestyle was different than my own...I literally wouldn't have any employees left.

I think you're upset and grasping at straws to explain something that hit you out of left field. Sleep on it, go talk to HR before signing that paper, and see where things go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aubie

I don't have any advice to add but I am here keeping an eye on this post an for you. Feel the support of friends in this virtual room just as you would in a physical one


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## boots

I am so sorry to hear this, hoofpic.

I think you are putting a bit too much emphasis on "What was wrong with me."

Yeah, maybe you didn't fit in socially with the others, but that doesn't make you bad or less than.

Um... I just had to lay off someone in my department. Today. Within two hours ago. I offered to take the lay off instead. Merry flippin' Christmas, eh? Totally because of a downturn in the business. I am helping the person find other work in every way possible. Most bosses wouldn't. Some because they have "survivor's guilt." Some because they really don't care.

I hope this turns into something much better for you. That DOES happen, you know.


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## aubie

You are awesome Boots.


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## boots

aubie said:


> You are awesome Boots.


Then why do I feel awful?


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## elle1959

I'm so sorry to hear this. Hopefully something much better is just around the corner for you.


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## Hoofpic

Speed Racer said:


> While I wholeheartedly sympathize with your predicament, I honestly don't believe your personal life had one thing to do with your being let go.


I still believe my investment in the horse world was a factor because I know it bothered my boss from the start. He knows I wont attend every single after hour event because my horses are a priority. Hes always preffered if his assistant would attend all (if not close to all) events with him so it makes him look good.

Ill let you in on a little something. Last spring (2015), we had this golf event after work. My boss asked if i was going, I said no. He asked "What is it that you got going on that you cant attend?" and I said because Im going to take care of my girlfriends horse (when we were together last year), and he seemed a bit upset and said "Well i would really like to see you there" and even offered me to leave work early that day with full day pay, so that I could make it.



> You admitted that your performance has been lacking, and you don't seem to know how to socialize with coworkers. Being part of a team means being able to deal with diverse personality types, and it appears that you put out zero effort.
> 
> The business world is all about getting along with coworkers and superiors, as well as putting in superlative results. I'm not the most sociable of people, but you'd never know it because I've learned how to play the game.


Performance hasnt been lacking but it took a dip in the summer of this year. Just lack of focus at times, mistakes on occasion. But I took notice and did everything I could do to get back to where I was. Obviously it wasnt enough otherwise I wouldnt have been let go.

Im almost certain that my boss has someone line up ready to step in right away because there is literally no way you can do without anyone in my position for anymore than a few days. Plus my boss is on vac at the end of January. It takes many months to train someone for what I did. I did so much for the company.

Well there were some people that I got along with really well (not staff but others within the company that i wouldnt see everyday), and that is because we had stuff in common. When I have stuff in common with people I tend to bond with them on a whole other level.

My boss has seen it, where I can be super friendly and chatty (almost too chatty) with people if I have stuff in common with them. I was even like this with my boss at times, he has seen the fun side in me. 

I still think that introverts tend to get looked down upon by some people who dont fully understand how an introvert thinks and communicates. Which is really unfortunate because all these workplaces today are preaching on 100% extroverted work environments. Well you know what? Just because some are introverts doesnt make us any different. 



> You don't have to attend extracurricular activities but you do need to make an effort to appear interested and engaged, especially when it comes to team building situations.


I attended about half of the optional ones and attended all the "mandatory ones"



> I've been in your shoes more than once over the 40 continuous years I've been working, and you need to stop thinking your former supervisor was out to get you because you like horses. I can guarantee you that he was given the unhappy task of picking one or more people to let go, and you're probably just the first, but won't be the last.


I gaurentee he wasnt given the unhappy task of picking one or more people to let go because I was the ONLY person working for him. He wasnt out to get me but my passion for horses was most definitely a factor. Part of the reasons why I still feel this way are stated above.



> Cry and feel sorry for yourself for a day or two, then hit the ground running. Be proactive, positive, go to as many interviews as you can, even for jobs you don't think you want , and never, ever trash talk your previous employer. When asked why you're seeking employment, just say your position was eliminated. It happens, and that answer satisfies every hiring manager.


Right now my plan is to be out of the house tomorrow and contact EI office and I need some legal advice on this letter I was given and the best route to take.

The last thing I want is to risk potentially being screwed by the owner, cause I know deep down if they can get away with not paying EI, they will do everything they can.

I dont mean to trash talk my boss, I just felt insulted by the reason given on why I was let go. I know I wont be able to get any reason out of him. Its not going to be worth asking him again when I go to see him for the final time. It will just **** him off.

When you say to a "potentially future employer" that your past job was eliminated, wont it look bad when you cant use them as a ref?


----------



## aubie

boots said:


> Then why do I feel awful?


Because you are a good person. Going above and beyond to help them find other employment.


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## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> So sorry Hoofpic . I am Canadian too, what Province are you in and how long have you worked for the company?
> 
> Also, how many reviews have you had, and have they been good? Have you had any warnings at all?
> 
> I might call a lawyer before you sign the papers as sometimes a letter from a lawyer can drastically change the amount of severance pay you get (this happened to me years ago).
> 
> Good luck!


Been with them for almost 2 years and the only yearly review I had was last Dec and it was really good. Got a raise, bonus and was told I was an asset to the company.

No warnings at all but I do truly honestly believe this has been a build up from the past 6-8 months.

Im going to contact EI tomorrow and get in touch with a few resources I got tonight from the 211 hotline to see whats the best route to take.

Im in Alberta btw.


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## Rainaisabelle

I really doubt it's about owning a horse, I think in reality YOU are making it about your mare. I don't mean to sound rude or anything but maybe that was part of the problem? You make things about your mare, maybe your boss could feel that you didn't really want the job you were in because you were so preoccupied with horses.

You might not have said it but its in body language. I am really sorry you lost your job though that would really suck but everything we are saying is just *ASSUMPTIONS*.


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## ShirtHotTeez

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I really think you're reading too much into it.


Perhaps, but it is a very personal thing to be 'let go' especially with no prior warning, and having to leave immediately. I would assume 'let go' to be the same as 'laid off'.

Hoofpic..do you have an employee's dispute rep? You have definitely had a shock, you have been given inadequate explanations and I think talking to someone can help sort that out. It seems possible to me you have been unfairly treated, which might mean you could be owed compensation. IMO instant dismissal is usually for 'serious misconduct' which doesn't appear to be the case, so your dispute person should be able to dig a bit deeper. Anyway, you should get a better understanding of what has happened which will help you get closure.

:beatup:


----------



## Hoofpic

elle1959 said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this. Hopefully something much better is just around the corner for you.


Thanks



boots said:


> I am so sorry to hear this, hoofpic.
> 
> I think you are putting a bit too much emphasis on "What was wrong with me."
> 
> Yeah, maybe you didn't fit in socially with the others, but that doesn't make you bad or less than.
> 
> Um... I just had to lay off someone in my department. Today. Within two hours ago. I offered to take the lay off instead. Merry flippin' Christmas, eh? Totally because of a downturn in the business. I am helping the person find other work in every way possible. Most bosses wouldn't. Some because they have "survivor's guilt." Some because they really don't care.
> 
> I hope this turns into something much better for you. That DOES happen, you know.


Well when you have a workplace who is now preaching more and more on becoming an extroverted workplace, it doesnt work too well for introverts like me. 

You are a wonderful person for helping that person find other work. I wish there were more people like you in this world. That person is lucky to have you.


----------



## Hoofpic

egrogan said:


> "I didn't even ask why." When you didn't ask, he didn't tell. He may NOT be able to tell you per company policy (I work for an at will employer in an at will state, so that effects how I might handle letting someone go. I don't know anything about Canada). Most managers are counseled to say as little as possible in termination conversations. The more you run your mouth or over explain when letting someone go, the more mistakes you're likely to make.


Well actually when he first said "we have to let you go", I replied "oh" cause I was in utter shock. And he said "ya, we are expanding and its just the new direction that we are taking" Which is a cover up in saying "your role has become bigger and your expectations will be higher and we dont feel confident in you filling it"

The fact they gave me the same christmas bonus as last year but yet I as making more this year says it all!

Wow Im just still in complete shock. It all happened so fast, so sudden. When I left and was driving home, I had to pull over for a second to close my eyes and see if this was real life or a bad dream!!! No joke! You know when you have a real bad dream, then you wake up and are so relieved that it didnt really happen?! Well unfortunately this wasnt a dream, it was real life.



> Oh, and his comment about you being successful teaching a horse class? Honestly, I think it's a sign of him being human and trying to say something nice to you in the midst of a difficult moment, knowing it's a hobby you're passionate about.


Possibly but I wouldnt count on it. I still see it as him telling me that this was a big factor. 

I do believe his decision to let me go was made this morning. But hes been gauging me over the past month or two and going from there. He wanted to allow as much time going into Dec as possible to gauge and make his decision before Christmas break.

When I reflect back over the past few weeks, now it all adds up cause his body language has been a bit different with me. I immediately took notice and thought something was up.



> Really sorry this happened to you, it's terrible timing and such an uncomfortable situation to be in. Take some time to update your resume, and really think about the parts of your job you did enjoy so you can target your job search to find a better fit next time. Since you don't enjoy the in-person office culture, have you ever explored jobs working in a virtual position?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What do you mean working in a virtual position? Online?

I think the hardest thing is telling my family. I cant tell them right away, they will be devastated especially the timing of it all and them knowing I have a horse and car payment every month. This is why I need to act on this fast, be proactive and minimize the downtime Im in.


----------



## Saddlebag

Are you not entitled to two weeks severance pay plus your vacation pay? You may be jumping the gun with your assumptions as to why you were let go. With our troubled economy which is worsening often least senior person goes first.


----------



## LoriF

I am really sorry to hear about this. Honestly, I don't think the wording of how or why you got let go would make it any better for you. Whether you are fired or laid off, it still sucks and it's hard to not take it personally. I would still file for unemployment. Call them, tell them that the reason you were let go is because the company is going in a different direction. That's what they told you and leave it at that. I would talk to your old boss and ask him if you can use him for a reference, he may surprise you. 
This may be a blessing in disguise. This has happened to me before and just about everybody else. You just pick yourself up and keep on moving. Don't be afraid, there are good things out there for you.


----------



## anndankev

Hoofpic, 

Certainly I will look over the papers, please do PM them to me. I don't know if I can be of much or any help, especially from across the border, but if I can even make one worthwhile suggestion it will be worth the effort.

Someone asked if you have a contract from when you began working there, do you? After that question you began referring to a 'contract' rather than a 'paper' to sign and take back. So I'm not quite sure if there are two documents. 

Right now it sounds as if there is only one 'paper', and if you sign it you will essentially be voluntarily resigning as opposed to being laid-off. If you leave a job voluntarily you will not be eligible for Unemployment compensation. At least in the US.

You have mentioned in early posts here that you had a lot of spare time on your hands at work. May I ask if your position as assistant to your boss was a newly created position, or did you fill a position vacated by someone else?

You were told the company is expanding, which is a word associated with growth. Later you explained that each employee's role is 'expanding' with increased tasks and responsibilities. In reality this means the company is downsizing, and cutting back, reducing the number of employees and dividing up the laid off worker's tasks between the remaining staff.




egrogan said:


> I totally agree with farm pony. You're jumping to a lot of big conclusions about your boss's motivations. But if you look back to what you wrote in your first page, you said "I didn't even ask why." When you didn't ask, he didn't tell. ...
> Oh, and his comment about you being successful teaching a horse class? Honestly, I think it's a sign of him being human and trying to say something nice to you in the midst of a difficult moment, knowing it's a hobby you're passionate about. _... _


I agree with egrogan and farmpony, and all the others about your jumping to conclusions and assumptions. 

As to why - not being asked or told - I feel it was offered. The reason being the company 'expansion' aka downsizing aka lay-off(s). 

What is more - elimination of a position is also a lay-off.




Speed Racer said:


> ... I honestly don't believe your personal life had one thing to do with your being let go.
> 
> ... stop thinking your former supervisor was out to get you because you like horses. I can guarantee you that *he was given the unhappy task of picking one *or more people to let go, and you're probably just the first, but won't be the last.
> 
> Cry and feel sorry for yourself for a day or two, then hit the ground running. Be proactive, positive, go to as many interviews as you can, even for jobs you don't think you want , *and never, ever trash talk your previous employer*. When asked why you're seeking employment, just *say your position was eliminated*. It happens, and that answer satisfies every hiring manager.


Listen to Speed Racer.



boots said:


> Then why do I feel awful?


Because you are awesome, boots.

Hoofpic,

Here in Ohio a person can file for unemployment by telephone, 24/7. It is fully automated, just choose the right options and you get to a series of questions. 

The phone lines are extremely busy, during peak hours can be tough to even get into the 'hold' line rather than a message to call back.

I think you should look up the phone number and try calling now.

:hug:​


----------



## Hoofpic

LoriF said:


> I am really sorry to hear about this. Honestly, I don't think the wording of how or why you got let go would make it any better for you. Whether you are fired or laid off, it still sucks and it's hard to not take it personally. I would still file for unemployment. Call them, tell them that the reason you were let go is because the company is going in a different direction. That's what they told you and leave it at that. I would talk to your old boss and ask him if you can use him for a reference, he may surprise you.
> This may be a blessing in disguise. This has happened to me before and just about everybody else. You just pick yourself up and keep on moving. Don't be afraid, there are good things out there for you.


Seeing how (the vibe) I left today, there is absolutely no chance he will offer to be used as a reference. NO chance. I wont even ask. I left on such bad terms, it was one of the worst feelings ive ever experienced. He didnt want to talk, he just wanted me to pack up and leave, thats it. Absolutely rotten feeling. I was at a loss for words. I packed everything up in a box that he gave me, brought it out to my car and he followed me as I had to give him a parking pass that I stored in my glove box. He said to contact him when im ready to come back with the paper and said bye. He tried to act sincere but I could tell deep down that he was upset inside with me. Uhhh. That whole working relationship we had over the past 1yr and 10 months, right out the window.


----------



## anndankev

I'm sure he was upset, at having to do this thing - letting you go.

Do not assume he was upset inside with you. 

Please try not to delve into what someone else is thinking deep down within themselves, and thereby subscribe your own worries as being theirs.

It very well could be that if you had turned to give him a big hug he would have hugged you back.


----------



## Hoofpic

anndankev said:


> Someone asked if you have a contract from when you began working there, do you?


I should, will need to find it in the file.



> After that question you began referring to a 'contract' rather than a 'paper' to sign and take back. So I'm not quite sure if there are two documents.


Yes two documents. The one I got today was termination letters and one that I need a commisioner of oathe to sign.



> Right now it sounds as if there is only one 'paper', and if you sign it you will essentially be voluntarily resigning as opposed to being laid-off. If you leave a job voluntarily you will not be eligible for Unemployment compensation. At least in the US.


In Canada too.



> You have mentioned in early posts here that you had a lot of spare time on your hands at work. May I ask if your position as assistant to your boss was a newly created position, or did you fill a position vacated by someone else?


I filled the position from someone else who moved onto another dept in the company. 



> You were told the company is expanding, which is a word associated with growth. Later you explained that each employee's role is 'expanding' with increased tasks and responsibilities. In reality this means the company is downsizing, and cutting back, reducing the number of employees and dividing up the laid off worker's tasks between the remaining staff.


I can gaurentee you 100% that they are not downsizing. Them expanding is a coverup, company isnt expanding at all, theyre just increasing the expectations for every staff member. Theyre raising the bar and they dont see me as a fit in the company anymore. I totally saw it in last weeks "team building" meeting. Though Im still puzzled as to how Im let go just 6 days after that meeting.



> Hoofpic,
> 
> Here in Ohio a person can file for unemployment by telephone, 24/7. It is fully automated, just choose the right options and you get to a series of questions.
> 
> The phone lines are extremely busy, during peak hours can be tough to even get into the 'hold' line rather than a message to call back.
> 
> I think you should look up the phone number and try calling now.
> 
> :hug:
> [/LEFT]
> [/CENTER]


I will, I need to call my EI office first thing tomorrow morning and get some advice (perhaps from a lawyer) on this paper and what they suggest.

I obviously want to go the EI route but (knowing the owners) I have a feeling theyre going to try everything to avoid paying me EI even if they have to lie to get out of it. I want to do everything possible to avoid this happening so if i can get legal advice on this right away, ill feel a lot safer.


----------



## Hoofpic

anndankev said:


> I'm sure he was upset, at having to do this thing - letting you go.
> 
> Do not assume he was upset inside with you.
> 
> Please try not to delve into what someone else is thinking deep down within themselves, and thereby subscribe your own worries as being theirs.
> 
> It very well could be that if you had turned to give him a big hug he would have hugged you back.


Hard to tell what exactly he was feeling. Yes the blame falls squarely on my shoulders 100% and I know it. The last few weeks I was clearly under the microscope and that is why he was teeter and tottering in letting me go before the year end.

I wouldnt have offered him a hug and to be honest when I go back for the final time, Im not even sure if ill shake his hand.

You know what I didnt appreciate today? When he let me go and I started packing. I was packing up my stuff and he was eyeing me and standing and watching!!! He gave me my time and space but after a few mins he got up and started watching. I understand you want me to leave but can you not trust me for 5mins to pack my stuff up? Are you worried im going to take the computer home? Give me a break! 

I had some stuff on my desktop that I wanted to delete, I had my mare saved on my desktop wallpaper, wanted to get that off. Why should I leave my pretty mare on the desktop for others to see? I dont want anyone seeing my personal life, nor do they deserve to. I had to make sure my online banking password wasnt saved. I had to unplug a couple things from under the desk that were mine. He was watching me. Uhhhh. This just ****ed me right off. Have some dignity for pete sakes.


----------



## anndankev

Shake his hand, at the very least be courteous and professional.

The 2 years you have worked there must have some value to add to your experience. I recall you have worked in film production for 7 years, has it been similar work?

Don't burn any bridges.

If you are going to get an attorney to look over the papers and advise you, do that first before you contact him again. I think you said that is what you are going to do anyway. I agree.


----------



## JCnGrace

I got fired after 16 years on the job for a totally bogus reason so I understand your frustration. It took a few months for the real reason to come to light but I eventually figured it out. After about 3 months I received a letter from HR saying my records would show that I left under exemplary terms and was eligible for rehire or a good recommendation if I chose to seek other employment.

I won't go into details because I don't want to type that long but the short story is they fired me because we got bought out by another company and they wanted to rehire me under their benefits instead of the ones I was grandfathered under by my original employer. The reason they gave me at the time? I wasn't strong enough in cross-selling. The funny thing about that was that I was the strongest cross-seller in our branch so they really should have done their homework on the reason ahead of time since the Unemployment Office wouldn't accept their dispute of unemployment benefits.


----------



## Hoofpic

anndankev said:


> Shake his hand, at the very least be courteous and professional.
> 
> The 2 years you have worked there must have some value to add to your experience. I recall you have worked in film production for 7 years, has it been similar work?
> 
> Don't burn any bridges.
> 
> If you are going to get an attorney to look over the papers and advise you, do that first before you contact him again. I think you said that is what you are going to do anyway. I agree.


Well I still want a reason as to why I was let go but I know 100% he wont give it and mainly because to protect himself. 

What I DONT appreciate is being told that the reasons why im being let go was in the papers he gave me. They were not stated at all!

I do think there is "some" truth to the company taking a bit of a bigger direction, though he was very vague about it.

It will be interesting to see who they bring in. Because im no longer there, it puts a lot more work and duties on my bosses shoulders for the next while, let alone having to train the new person, months....

But its not my problem!

Well at the staff breakfast tomorrow morning, everyone will have the news broken to them that im gone. And Im sure there will not be a more happier person that the girl I did not get along with.


----------



## EponaLynn

In Ontario, EI works differently than in the US. I believe that the government pays you EI, not your employer but your employer pays into it via payroll.

Do not sign anything until you have all the facts as you want to be looking out for yourself. Don't worry one little bit what you e4x boss thinks.

You will be doing yourself a dis-service if you don't at least ask if you can use them as a reference, or if you can have a letter of reference. Just ask, point blank, you have nothing to lose now.

I also think it's important that you know exactly why you were let go because you're going to be asked by future employers and not knowing will only cause more confusion and possibly sabotage a new potential job. I'm not saying that you have to say it the way your boss did, but you need clean energy around it.


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## Golden Horse

Have not read all the replies, and I M sorry you got let go, BUT have we not been trying to tell you for a year that turning up dead on time, leaving dead on time, not wanting to join in company events, using 'reply all' to turn down events, does ear mark you as one to go if and when times get tough.

I know that you are paid for a certain time, but in this day and age, and with the economic climate in your province, showing yourself as a 'company man' is a game that has to be played to increase your odds of keeping a job
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Hoofpic said:


> When you say to a "potentially future employer" that your past job was eliminated, wont it look bad when you cant use them as a ref?


Has never been an issue for me, but you're going to need strong professional and personal references from others. They'll also look at your job longevity. My shortest job lasted for a little over a year, but my longest was thirteen. The longer you have a job is more of a barometer of your work ethic and abilities than whether or not you have glowing references. 

The job from which my last position was eliminated, I was there for eight years. I guarantee that was looked on favorably by my current employer during the interview process. You don't stay that long by being a screw up or unable to get along with others. 

I'm an introvert too, so you need to stop using that as an excuse. You didn't put yourself out to make your boss look good, and he TOLD you up front he needed an assistant who was going to attend at least some of the activities. You put the bullseye on your own back by refusing to be a team player.

If you're unwilling to put in the time to make something a career instead of just a job, you're going to continue to have a difficult time. Employers want to see someone who takes an interest in the company and people. If you're not invested, why should they keep you for just putting in the minimum effort when someone else will happily do what they're asking?

I have a farm and three horses of my own but I try to attend important events, and rarely leave just because the clock indicates it's 5:00 p.m. If you want to keep a job long term, you need to do more than just the minimum.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Speed Racer said:


> Hoofpic said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you say to a "potentially future employer" that your past job was eliminated, wont it look bad when you cant use them as a ref?
> 
> 
> 
> Has never been an issue for me, but you're going to need strong professional and personal references from others. They'll also look at your job longevity. My shortest job lasted for a little over a year, but my longest was thirteen. The longer you have a job is more of a barometer of your work ethic and abilities than whether or not you have glowing references.
> 
> The job from which my last position was eliminated, I was there for eight years. I guarantee that was looked on favorably by my current employer during the interview process. You don't stay that long by being a screw up or unable to get along with others.
> 
> I'm an introvert too, so you need to stop using that as an excuse. You didn't put yourself out to make your boss look good, and he TOLD you up front he needed an assistant who was going to attend at least some of the activities. You put the bullseye on your own back by refusing to be a team player.
> 
> If you're unwilling to put in the time to make something a career instead of just a job, you're going to continue to have a difficult time. Employers want to see someone who takes an interest in the company and people. If you're not invested, why should they keep you for just putting in the minimum effort when someone else will happily do what they're asking?
> 
> I have a farm and three horses of my own but I try to attend important events, and rarely leave just because the clock indicates it's 5:00 p.m. If you want to keep a job long term, you need to do more than just the minimum.
Click to expand...

I agree with Speedracer, you need a life outside horses. Don't get me wrong I bet we'd all like to hanging with our horses 24/7 unfortunately life doesn't work that way. 

YOU need to make an effort at this next job to make friends and be at events even if it means that you lose out on pony time.


----------



## Hoofpic

JCnGrace said:


> I got fired after 16 years on the job for a totally bogus reason so I understand your frustration. It took a few months for the real reason to come to light but I eventually figured it out. After about 3 months I received a letter from HR saying my records would show that I left under exemplary terms and was eligible for rehire or a good recommendation if I chose to seek other employment.
> 
> I won't go into details because I don't want to type that long but the short story is they fired me because we got bought out by another company and they wanted to rehire me under their benefits instead of the ones I was grandfathered under by my original employer. The reason they gave me at the time? I wasn't strong enough in cross-selling. The funny thing about that was that I was the strongest cross-seller in our branch so they really should have done their homework on the reason ahead of time since the Unemployment Office wouldn't accept their dispute of unemployment benefits.


Im so sorry to hear that! No one should ever been treated that way, just not right.


----------



## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> Do not sign anything until you have all the facts as you want to be looking out for yourself. Don't worry one little bit what you e4x boss thinks.
> 
> I also think it's important that you know exactly why you were let go because you're going to be asked by future employers and not knowing will only cause more confusion and possibly sabotage a new potential job. I'm not saying that you have to say it the way your boss did, but you need clean energy around it.


The only thing is, HR and payroll wont know I was let go because when my boss tells them all at this mornings staff breakfast, hes going to be very vague about it (I just know my boss well enough by now to know this is the route hes going to take). He only says the minimum on whats needed and nothing more, simply to cover his own butt. 

If I want to get reasons, the only person to get it from is my boss himself. But you know after some thinking last night, Im not going to ask him why I was let go. Why? Because I already know - and no these are not assumptions, I woke up this morning and things were much clearer for me.

1) My performance took a hit in the spring and summer of this year. I wouldnt say a serious hit, at the end of the day I still got the job done, but it was enough for him to take notice, and for me to realize that I really needed to pick up my socks again and get back to when I first started the job (where I literally blew his socks off in my performance). As much as I did to get myself back to where I was, it was just not enough. It was too late into the year to overwrite the spring and summer.

2) My introverted personality and lackluster effort to socialize with others. I only did what was needed (when I needed to mingle) and nothing more. I socialized at events and get togethers, but Im sure he wanted to see more of this from me on a daily basis. It of course didnt help when at last weeks "team building" meeting, when it was my time to talk about what I did in the company, I didnt talk with any excitement or passion in me. I was pretty lackluster. Not by choice but because I hate doing speeches and the nerves really got to me.

I truly do believe these were the two biggest reasons. Yes I do believe that my boss would have liked to have an assistant who was more open with their "outside of work life" but I feel he has accepted me for who I am outside of work hours. I know he wasnt crazy about it, but he has learn to accept it for when I was there. But I know the fact that I declined on last nights staff Christmas get together was just another incident/factor to add to the fire. 

With last weeks meeting on them preaching "team building" and everyone in the company taking the next step in making the company better, I truly do believe had it not been for the 2 reasons stated above, I would be heading to work this morning.

Like I said, this definitely was something that just built up and accumulated throughout the year (most particularly in the spring and summer). Each mistake I made, each bad decision I made ended up costing me where the boss has pretty much said hes had enough. There are 3 things that happened in the past 48 hours that I KNOW 100%, ABSOLUTELY know was the nail in the coffin.

1) On Monday, as we were streaming our online meeting to the realtors in the company, doing the pre-meeting trivia, (I run, coordinate, broadcast the weekly meetings like I do a backstage news production team does).

I had our music playing during the trivia, but because it was Christmas time and it was our final meeting of the year, I decided that morning that I was going to play christmas music. I didnt have any on my phone so I decided to google up online Christmas music streaming. I found one, tested it out before the meeting to make sure it had no commercials and it was good. No commercials, cause I know commercials/advertising is just something that would not be allowed on the meeting.

Well during the trivia and here I am streaming the christmas music. At the end of the 10 min session I was just about to kill the music and jump right into the meeting, but the worst thing happened. A commercial played! My helper who sits right next to me who listens to the audio immediately commented and my boss were ****ed! I said sorry and that I thought there were no commercials as I was listening to the station prior to the trivia.

I know he didnt take it too well. He was upset.

2) On Tues morning we had a class at 9:30am. Im responsible for prepping the room and that includes taking out the garbage if full. Well I did take out the garbage, unfortunately, because I dont like to just toss it in the kitchen (then it takes up all the space and the receptionist has to deal with it), I placed the bag just outside the room door. I usually almost always hand it to my receptionist and she deals with it but she wasnt in yet.

Unfortunately, I got tied up with other things and 9:30am passed, people were entering the room and here the bag of garbage was sitting right outside the door. This did not look good! I was careless! I just lost track of time and forgot about the bag. I immediately took it to the receptionist, but by this time my boss is already in the room and had seen it. He was not impressed. Forgot or not, it was just pure carelessness on my part.

3) First thing Tues morning, he emailed me some materials to print out for morning course. He requested I print them out "fit to size" and I didnt. I didnt even check after I printed them, I just printed them. Well when he came in and noticed it, he brought it to my attention in how he wanted it printed. He even showed me. This is something that I obviously already knew how to do, I was just careless. Once again, careless and failed to take directions from him properly. He was not happy!

He's always been one to show me stuff again (if made by a mistake on my part) but seeing how this is something very basic, and how Ive been the company for almost two years now, he felt I should definitely know by now and it was my lack of care that. I didnt pay attention. 

These 3 factors, and for them to happen during the time where hes already put me under the microscope were the nail in the coffin. I know it.

Stuff like this has been happening on occasion, time to time over the year where I would just be careless. I still do the job, just not up to his standards. Lack of care. He's decided hes had enough yesterday and made the final call to let me go.



> You will be doing yourself a dis-service if you don't at least ask if you can use them as a reference, or if you can have a letter of reference. Just ask, point blank, you have nothing to lose now.


I could be wrong here but Ive always seen it as - if the employer doesnt offer you to use them as a ref, they wont bring it up.

Again, (I could be out to lunch here), but I just got let go, and obviously for some bad reasons and faults on my own, if I use him as a ref....who is to say that he's not going to mention it with the new potential employer? I dont know what hes going to say. 

Knowing him, I bet he would bring it up, he would bring up my flaws and weaknesses and why I was let go.

Its pretty hard for someone to speak highly of someone when they just let them go. If that person resigned on their own, then much different story. But really, how he is going to remember me as, as a worker, unfortunately is going to be from what has transpired over the past few months (perhaps longer).


----------



## Woodhaven

boots said:


> Then why do I feel awful?


Because you are who you are, a truly caring person


----------



## sarahfromsc

Ahhh, hoofpic, I'm so sorry to read about your layoff. It is very difficult to deal with, and, as you keep stating, you are in shock. So, coming from someone who has been laid off (twice) in the past, I will give you some advice.

Do not let the shock rule how you deal with your former boss/company from here on out. Don't burn that bridge. When you meet with your former boss do shake his hand and thank him for the opportunity.

In any relationship, whether it is a personal relationship, a work relationship, a parent/child relationship, when things sour you have to own your portion of why it went sour. In your case, it wasn't your mare per se, but you bringing your mare into the workplace to often? I don't mean pictures on your desktop, but what you did online during an eight hour work day that concerned horses. 

Keep your dignity while dealing with your former boss/company. You will be surprise how far that goes when needing a referral.

When one door is shut, it gives you the opportunity to open an bigger brighter door.

This is the hard one, but drop the anger. Anger will use up all your positive energy. That positive energy you will need to keep walking forward. Negativity and anger are one edged swords that ONLY bite the person who is carrying and supporting negative and angry energy.

This part may be hard to read, but I will type anyway. I am sure you have heard people say, never bring work home to your family. The reverse is very true as well. Never bring to much of your personal life into the office. I don't mean pictures, or chit chat about your hobby. I'm talking about your online activities that concern your hobby.

A good IT department for a company will let managers know who is online when, for how long, and what sites are being visited. During lunch breaks that is an employees time, so that hour most employers are not going to care about employees being online. Unless the sites are inappropriate or hostile to the workplace. In fact I would never, ever pay my bills online, or check my account on a work computer. Ever. All that can be captured.

I hope you can let go of the shock and anger. You will need all your energy for the future. Always believe there is something better out there. A positive prospective while interviewing can make a difference. And learn from this. As I said earlier, when a relationship sours, we have to own our part of why it soured. But a person has to be very honest with themselves. And sometimes that is hard to do.

I wish you best of luck. Send out that positive energy into the universe. And keep looking forward!


----------



## greentree

I think you should Ask him if he would give you a good reference. He will truthfully answer yes or no, if no, ask why. If yes, THANK him heartily and shake his hand.

Even if they FIRE someone, they are usually reluctant to not give a good reference, even if it is a stock reply. It can be turned around by an attorney if there you find some reason for wrongful discharge, so they usually just say yes, I would rehire.....

If they loved you, and had to lay you off, they may gush about you.


----------



## egrogan

Here is my perspective as a long-time manager in a medium sized company. Take it for what you will.



Hoofpic said:


> The only thing is, HR and payroll wont know I was let go because when my boss tells them all at this mornings staff breakfast, hes going to be very vague about it (I just know my boss well enough by now to know this is the route hes going to take). He only says the minimum on whats needed and nothing more, simply to cover his own butt.


Unless you are in a small, family owned business where things are done very informally, I can't imagine a "lone wolf" boss acting without coordination with Human Resource. You are ASSUMING a lot about how this process works. Is there an employee handbook? What does it say about separation procedures? Most likely, there is a process in place that is explained to employees in writing, and the manager is following it. I will not assume, but would be very surprised if HR was not well informed about what was happening. Again, I would say contact them and ask for more details.



Hoofpic said:


> If I want to get reasons, the only person to get it from is my boss himself. But you know after some thinking last night, Im not going to ask him why I was let go. Why? Because I already know - and no these are not assumptions, I woke up this morning and things were much clearer for me.


I thoroughly disagree with that. Your post today still indicates you are making guesses. HR should be able to give you a reason. Will it be satisfying or detailed? Possibly not. BUT, as many have said, it will allow you to factually explain your separation when interviewing for your next job. Otherwise, you'll honestly come across as paranoid if you tell another company that you were fired for all of these things you've made up on your boss's behalf without asking.



Hoofpic said:


> But I know the fact that I declined on last nights staff Christmas get together was just another incident/factor to add to the fire.


This is not a fact.



Hoofpic said:


> With last weeks meeting on them preaching "team building" and everyone in the company taking the next step in making the company better, I truly do believe had it not been for the 2 reasons stated above, I would be heading to work this morning.


This is an assumption



Hoofpic said:


> Like I said, this definitely was something that just built up and accumulated throughout the year (most particularly in the spring and summer). Each mistake I made, each bad decision I made ended up costing me where the boss has pretty much said hes had enough. There are 3 things that happened in the past 48 hours that I KNOW 100%, ABSOLUTELY know was the nail in the coffin.


These are all assumptions.



Hoofpic said:


> These 3 factors, and for them to happen during the time where hes already put me under the microscope were the nail in the coffin. I know it.


If what you're saying is that you see a pattern of lack of attention to detail and mistakes in your work, that is a valuable personal reflection. It doesn't mean you need to agonize over it, but it is a tangible aspect of your performance that you can focus on in your next job. Don't get hung up on the specifics (i.e., "playing Christmas music with commercials") but think about the bigger theme- not paying attention to specific details that show a lack of responsibility.



Hoofpic said:


> Stuff like this has been happening on occasion, time to time over the year where I would just be careless. I still do the job, just not up to his standards. Lack of care. He's decided hes had enough yesterday and made the final call to let me go.


This is an assumption. However, given your admission of performance problems in this area, it is something to listen for when HR explains the reason for separation, to see if they confirm it. And then, when you have an interview for your next job, and the interviewer asks you about one weakness you can improve, you say, "I know that sometimes I need to pay more attention to the little details and focus on doing even the small things up to company standards."



Hoofpic said:


> I could be wrong here but Ive always seen it as - if the employer doesnt offer you to use them as a ref, they wont bring it up.


As someone wanting a reference, it's on you to ask for it, don't wait for someone to offer. In my company, policy dictates that I can do nothing more for a prior employee than confirm their dates of employment- whether I want to give them lukewarm or effusive praise, I have to follow our policy. Find out what your company policy is, and make sure they will be able to confirm your dates of employment at minimum. Be a little savvy and strategic here- what would you really want to get from them? Is it a prestigious company where just having it on your resume with dates of employment confirmed is enough to help? Also, could you use someone else in teh company who knows your work as a reference rather than your direct manager? Start thinking about how to get what YOU need, rather than worrying about what your former manager thinks.



Hoofpic said:


> Again, (I could be out to lunch here), but I just got let go, and obviously for some bad reasons and faults on my own, if I use him as a ref....who is to say that he's not going to mention it with the new potential employer? I dont know what hes going to say.


Yes, this is smart. Personally, I always advise people that if they have any doubt about what a reference will say about them when asked direct questions, it's too risky to use that person. But perhaps there is someone else in teh company to use.



Hoofpic said:


> Knowing him, I bet he would bring it up, he would bring up my flaws and weaknesses and why I was let go.


This is an assumption. 


In another post, I suggested looking at virtual jobs. What I meant was looking for companies that hire people to work remotely; i.e., to telecommute for part or all of the job so you don't have to be in an office. I don't know your field at all, so I don't know how realistic that is. A basic Google search turned this up, and lists at least a few telecommuting jobs (although many seem to be part time): https://www.flexjobs.com/jobs/film But this should give you an idea of what I mean. 

When I'm hiring, above all else I am looking for someone who is smart, confident, strategic, and a good fit for my organizational culture. I'm an introvert to, so as a manager, I have to work very hard to make personal connections with my team and my own supervisors without being completely drained from the interactions. It takes work. It takes knowing yourself, and when to push yourself outside of your comfort zone. 

But as Golden Horse said, in this economy, the truth is most of us are on our own to "build our own brand," and no one is going to look out for your brand more than you are. The people who are savvy and strategic are the ones who are doing fine in this economy, because they've figured out how to make themselves invaluable to their employers, with an exit strategy for a new job if they need to make a move. No one online can tell you how to do that without knowing you and your company- but I'd highly suggest that at your next job, you find someone as a mentor who will help you navigate the complexities of workplace culture to find more success. 

I hope you bounce back from this Hoofpic. I think everyone is allowed a day or two of a pity party after a big setback, but I hope you find the inner strength to learn from it, stop worrying about the assumptions about your boss and his motivations, and have an honest conversation with yourself about what kind of job you want next, and what changes you'll need to make to get it. Good luck!


----------



## beau159

Hoofpic said:


> It most definitely was on my bosses mind (at least on the back of his mind) for months. He lets me go just before the evening get together tonight, just before the office Christmas breakfast (tomorrow morning), and before Christmas and before my 3 vac days I had booked. He obviously did it right now to avoid the company from having to pay me 5 extra days in wages. Thats a bit sneaky if you ask me. Legal yes. But sneaky.
> 
> And the most insulting factor was that the Christmas bonus he gave me today, was the same amount as last year. What does that tell you? Exactly! He clearly felt that my performance hasnt gone up this year to warrant a bigger bonus.


So they gave you a Christmas bonus the same day they let you go?

That was nice of them. I'd never expect a company to do that.

Remember: Many companies base _several factors_ on a bonus. I own my own clinic and while my employee's performance plays a role in their bonus, so does the financial standing of the business. If we have a bad year, guess what? Thanks for working your butt off but if I don't have excess money to do bonuses, then they are going to be decreased. So just something to think about, anyway.

Seems to me if your theory is correct and they didn't want to pay you for your vacation days, then I would think they would also NOT give you a Christmas bonus.



Hoofpic said:


> The reason I say this is because when he gave me my papers, he wouldnt even let me read them in his office. He said I need to take them home and I cant bring them back until at least 24 hours later. He said that if I read them in his office, he might get in trouble for forcing me to read and sign at the time or termination or something along those lines.
> 
> You know what? I go see him and ask again for reasoning, I know hes not going to give it. I know him well enough by now that he is a man of his words, he never lets anything slide.
> 
> I could call HR tomorrow, but what if my boss gets upset after he finds out from HR that I contacted them?


It's very possible the company has a policy where they do NOT want the forms back right away. So your boss may just be trying to follow company policy. 

What I would do, is go back to your boss and ask for a specific reason. Then if he doesn't give it to you, go higher to HR. That's what I would do, anyway. 

And I agree that you can always ask your boss if he would be a reference for you when you start your job search. A "yes"or "no" will answer your question. 



Hoofpic said:


> I can gaurentee you 100% that they are not downsizing. Them expanding is a coverup, company isnt expanding at all, theyre just increasing the expectations for every staff member. *Theyre raising the bar and they dont see me as a fit in the company anymore.* I totally saw it in last weeks "team building" meeting. Though Im still puzzled as to how Im let go just 6 days after that meeting.


If they do not feel your performance is up to snuff or feel that you want to be there, as an employer, that would be the person I would let go too. 

The question is: Why would they think that about you?

I don't expect you to answer that, but rather something you can deeply think about as you start your job search. What can do you to show your employer that you CARE about your job and make the extra effort towards it? It's not about attending all the extra functions. It's about the attitude you put forth while you are at work. 

After reading your responses and responses of others who've heard you talk about your job throughout the year, kinda sounds like your heart just wasn't in it. And the company saw that. 

Again, still sorry you got let go and I wish you luck on your job search. But there is an opportunity here to learn and move forward.


----------



## anndankev

When you talk about a reference from your boss, ask for a Letter of Reference.

Not just for him to be a reference should a prospective employer call on him.

Once while working, then leaving a Credit Union to move out of state. I asked for a Letter of Reference. And was provided 2 glowing Letters. One specifically for applying to credit unions or financial institutions. And a second for applying to other types of work.

Another time though, when a business was closing its doors, I asked for and received a Letter of Reference. It did not reflect the quality of my work to my satisfaction and I never used that letter.

So there are 2 types of references, one to fill in the blanks on an application for employment the names and contact info of persons.

And the second, for your portfolio, is a Letter of Reference or Letter of Recommendation. Do not overlook asking for this written Letter. You may or may not use it at your discretion.


----------



## Hoofpic

Saddlebag said:


> Are you not entitled to two weeks severance pay plus your vacation pay? You may be jumping the gun with your assumptions as to why you were let go. With our troubled economy which is worsening often least senior person goes first.


Im just waiting for the a legals guidance office to open up in 40mins from now to call them about this. Im hoping they can read over my letter and provide whats the best roue to take or guide me to who can. Its going to be a good day for me, I know it will. 

From what I read on the govt of Alberta site, from employment between 3 months and 2 years you are entitled to 1 weeks notice (with pay). So if thats the case, then that means I would collect another week of pay but no vac days unfortunately (cause they were scheduled for next Wed, the 29th and 30th.)

Im going to see my mare later today and already looking forward to it.


----------



## Corporal

I am so sorry. I have been fired twice, and my hero, Rush Limbaugh was fired 7x, so you are in good company! =D


----------



## churumbeque

greentree said:


> I think you should Ask him if he would give you a good reference. He will truthfully answer yes or no, if no, ask why. If yes, THANK him heartily and shake his hand.
> 
> Even if they FIRE someone, they are usually reluctant to not give a good reference, even if it is a stock reply. It can be turned around by an attorney if there you find some reason for wrongful discharge, so they usually just say yes, I would rehire.....
> 
> If they loved you, and had to lay you off, they may gush about you.


as an employer legally you can't give a reference good or bad. You can say how long they were employed and if you would hire them back.


----------



## Hoofpic

sarahfromsc said:


> Don't burn that bridge. When you meet with your former boss do shake his hand and thank him for the opportunity.


Yes this is what im going to do. I was thinking about it this morning and this is what I need to do. I even considered saying sorry for not living up to expectations. Would that be a bad idea? Not a sorry in feeling sorry for myself (Cause I dont), but a sincere apology for not fufilling the requirments this year. I did not fufil my shoes this year, its as simple as that.



> In any relationship, whether it is a personal relationship, a work relationship, a parent/child relationship, when things sour you have to own your portion of why it went sour. In your case, it wasn't your mare per se, but you bringing your mare into the workplace to often? I don't mean pictures on your desktop, but what you did online during an eight hour work day that concerned horses.


Yes



> Keep your dignity while dealing with your former boss/company. You will be surprise how far that goes when needing a referral.
> 
> When one door is shut, it gives you the opportunity to open an bigger brighter door.


True



> This is the hard one, but drop the anger. Anger will use up all your positive energy. That positive energy you will need to keep walking forward. Negativity and anger are one edged swords that ONLY bite the person who is carrying and supporting negative and angry energy.
> 
> This part may be hard to read, but I will type anyway. I am sure you have heard people say, never bring work home to your family. The reverse is very true as well. Never bring to much of your personal life into the office. I don't mean pictures, or chit chat about your hobby. I'm talking about your online activities that concern your hobby.





> I hope you can let go of the shock and anger. You will need all your energy for the future. Always believe there is something better out there. A positive prospective while interviewing can make a difference. And learn from this. As I said earlier, when a relationship sours, we have to own our part of why it soured. But a person has to be very honest with themselves. And sometimes that is hard to do.
> 
> I wish you best of luck. Send out that positive energy into the universe. And keep looking forward!


That is very true. I have woken up a lot more aware this morning. It has sunk in. The shock factor is gone. My emotions are no longer running high.

I hold no anger against my boss. Nothing at all. I completely understand and respect his decision. I knew I would, its just yesterday I was so caught up in the moment that I needed time for it to sink in. It did overnight.

I will take things day at a time for now and today its going to be all about positive energy from me.


----------



## Hoofpic

Speed Racer said:


> Has never been an issue for me, but you're going to need strong professional and personal references from others. They'll also look at your job longevity. My shortest job lasted for a little over a year, but my longest was thirteen. The longer you have a job is more of a barometer of your work ethic and abilities than whether or not you have glowing references.
> 
> The job from which my last position was eliminated, I was there for eight years. I guarantee that was looked on favorably by my current employer during the interview process. You don't stay that long by being a screw up or unable to get along with others.
> 
> I'm an introvert too, so you need to stop using that as an excuse. You didn't put yourself out to make your boss look good, and he TOLD you up front he needed an assistant who was going to attend at least some of the activities. You put the bullseye on your own back by refusing to be a team player.
> 
> If you're unwilling to put in the time to make something a career instead of just a job, you're going to continue to have a difficult time. Employers want to see someone who takes an interest in the company and people. If you're not invested, why should they keep you for just putting in the minimum effort when someone else will happily do what they're asking?
> 
> I have a farm and three horses of my own but I try to attend important events, and rarely leave just because the clock indicates it's 5:00 p.m. If you want to keep a job long term, you need to do more than just the minimum.


Very valuable read, thank you.


----------



## Hoofpic

anndankev said:


> When you talk about a reference from your boss, ask for a Letter of Reference.
> 
> Not just for him to be a reference should a prospective employer call on him.
> 
> Once while working, then leaving a Credit Union to move out of state. I asked for a Letter of Reference. And was provided 2 glowing Letters. One specifically for applying to credit unions or financial institutions. And a second for applying to other types of work.
> 
> Another time though, when a business was closing its doors, I asked for and received a Letter of Reference. It did not reflect the quality of my work to my satisfaction and I never used that letter.
> 
> So there are 2 types of references, one to fill in the blanks on an application for employment the names and contact info of persons.
> 
> And the second, for your portfolio, is a Letter of Reference or Letter of Recommendation. Do not overlook asking for this written Letter. You may or may not use it at your discretion.


Thank you for mentioning the reference letter. totally didnt think about this.



greentree said:


> I think you should Ask him if he would give you a good reference. He will truthfully answer yes or no, if no, ask why. If yes, THANK him heartily and shake his hand.
> 
> Even if they FIRE someone, they are usually reluctant to not give a good reference, even if it is a stock reply. It can be turned around by an attorney if there you find some reason for wrongful discharge, so they usually just say yes, I would rehire.....
> 
> If they loved you, and had to lay you off, they may gush about you.


I will probably ask him about the reference. If he says no, then that says it right there. If he says yes then it shows that there is still some good from what he sees in me. Am I right?


----------



## Hoofpic

egrogan said:


> Here is my perspective as a long-time manager in a medium sized company. Take it for what you will.
> 
> 
> Unless you are in a small, family owned business where things are done very informally, I can't imagine a "lone wolf" boss acting without coordination with Human Resource. You are ASSUMING a lot about how this process works. Is there an employee handbook? What does it say about separation procedures? Most likely, there is a process in place that is explained to employees in writing, and the manager is following it. I will not assume, but would be very surprised if HR was not well informed about what was happening. Again, I would say contact them and ask for more details.
> 
> 
> I thoroughly disagree with that. Your post today still indicates you are making guesses. HR should be able to give you a reason. Will it be satisfying or detailed? Possibly not. BUT, as many have said, it will allow you to factually explain your separation when interviewing for your next job. Otherwise, you'll honestly come across as paranoid if you tell another company that you were fired for all of these things you've made up on your boss's behalf without asking.
> 
> 
> This is not a fact.
> 
> 
> This is an assumption
> 
> 
> These are all assumptions.
> 
> 
> If what you're saying is that you see a pattern of lack of attention to detail and mistakes in your work, that is a valuable personal reflection. It doesn't mean you need to agonize over it, but it is a tangible aspect of your performance that you can focus on in your next job. Don't get hung up on the specifics (i.e., "playing Christmas music with commercials") but think about the bigger theme- not paying attention to specific details that show a lack of responsibility.
> 
> 
> This is an assumption. However, given your admission of performance problems in this area, it is something to listen for when HR explains the reason for separation, to see if they confirm it. And then, when you have an interview for your next job, and the interviewer asks you about one weakness you can improve, you say, "I know that sometimes I need to pay more attention to the little details and focus on doing even the small things up to company standards."
> 
> 
> As someone wanting a reference, it's on you to ask for it, don't wait for someone to offer. In my company, policy dictates that I can do nothing more for a prior employee than confirm their dates of employment- whether I want to give them lukewarm or effusive praise, I have to follow our policy. Find out what your company policy is, and make sure they will be able to confirm your dates of employment at minimum. Be a little savvy and strategic here- what would you really want to get from them? Is it a prestigious company where just having it on your resume with dates of employment confirmed is enough to help? Also, could you use someone else in teh company who knows your work as a reference rather than your direct manager? Start thinking about how to get what YOU need, rather than worrying about what your former manager thinks.
> 
> 
> Yes, this is smart. Personally, I always advise people that if they have any doubt about what a reference will say about them when asked direct questions, it's too risky to use that person. But perhaps there is someone else in teh company to use.
> 
> 
> This is an assumption.
> 
> 
> In another post, I suggested looking at virtual jobs. What I meant was looking for companies that hire people to work remotely; i.e., to telecommute for part or all of the job so you don't have to be in an office. I don't know your field at all, so I don't know how realistic that is. A basic Google search turned this up, and lists at least a few telecommuting jobs (although many seem to be part time): https://www.flexjobs.com/jobs/film But this should give you an idea of what I mean.
> 
> When I'm hiring, above all else I am looking for someone who is smart, confident, strategic, and a good fit for my organizational culture. I'm an introvert to, so as a manager, I have to work very hard to make personal connections with my team and my own supervisors without being completely drained from the interactions. It takes work. It takes knowing yourself, and when to push yourself outside of your comfort zone.
> 
> But as Golden Horse said, in this economy, the truth is most of us are on our own to "build our own brand," and no one is going to look out for your brand more than you are. The people who are savvy and strategic are the ones who are doing fine in this economy, because they've figured out how to make themselves invaluable to their employers, with an exit strategy for a new job if they need to make a move. No one online can tell you how to do that without knowing you and your company- but I'd highly suggest that at your next job, you find someone as a mentor who will help you navigate the complexities of workplace culture to find more success.
> 
> I hope you bounce back from this Hoofpic. I think everyone is allowed a day or two of a pity party after a big setback, but I hope you find the inner strength to learn from it, stop worrying about the assumptions about your boss and his motivations, and have an honest conversation with yourself about what kind of job you want next, and what changes you'll need to make to get it. Good luck!


Theres not anyone in the company that I could use because it was really only my boss that I got to know.

Let me think about emailing HR or payroll about finding out more on the reasoning behind it. I know theyre just going to forward the email to my boss anyways to reply to.

This is a very valuable lesson to me. Its been a serious wake up call. Thanks for that link.


----------



## Hoofpic

beau159 said:


> Remember: Many companies base _several factors_ on a bonus. I own my own clinic and while my employee's performance plays a role in their bonus, so does the financial standing of the business. If we have a bad year, guess what? Thanks for working your butt off but if I don't have excess money to do bonuses, then they are going to be decreased. So just something to think about, anyway.


Good point



> Seems to me if your theory is correct and they didn't want to pay you for your vacation days, then I would think they would also NOT give you a Christmas bonus.


true.



> It's very possible the company has a policy where they do NOT want the forms back right away. So your boss may just be trying to follow company policy.


I think they do as well. 



> What I would do, is go back to your boss and ask for a specific reason. Then if he doesn't give it to you, go higher to HR. That's what I would do, anyway.


He wont give me a reason I know it. I mean I could contact HR today and inquire but they will just pass me onto my boss. 

If I could I would email my former boss right now and ask for reasoning but if I do, I feel its best i do it in person when I go back.

The thing is I know why I was let go, I just want to confirm it. 

In a way i would feel like an idiot if I went to him asking for a reason why when its been obvious (with how things have gone throughout the year). He would think im completely clueless if i dont know or somewhat saw this potentially coming cause of how things have accumulated over the year. 

Whereas if I go to him having already know what it was, then he would know that I picked up on the reasoning. 



> If they do not feel your performance is up to snuff or feel that you want to be there, as an employer, that would be the person I would let go too.
> 
> The question is: Why would they think that about you?
> 
> I don't expect you to answer that, but rather something you can deeply think about as you start your job search. What can do you to show your employer that you CARE about your job and make the extra effort towards it? It's not about attending all the extra functions. It's about the attitude you put forth while you are at work.


Thats true.



> After reading your responses and responses of others who've heard you talk about your job throughout the year, kinda sounds like your heart just wasn't in it. And the company saw that.
> 
> Again, still sorry you got let go and I wish you luck on your job search. But there is an opportunity here to learn and move forward.


Thanks. 

I will admit, my heart just wasnt there this year. It was higher after the new year but as time went on, I became more detached from the company and my job itself. My passion for the job itself took a hit this year. It did come up but it would also go back down. It was inconsistent. 

There was only ONE motivating factor that got me to work everyday and I think you guys know what that is.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Maybe this is a good thing and you will be able to find a job doing something you really enjoy


----------



## gypsygirl

They will probably mail you a letter for why you were let go. At least it seems like that's what they do in the states.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anndankev

Please IMMEDIATELY change your passwords to HorseForum, your personal email, and all accounts that you have accesses from a work computer, or any computer that is linked to/connected to/or networked to their system.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

In the US, so not sure if this would apply in Canada, a job can only verify date hired, date employment ended, position held and salary made. "Reference" is a very touchy thing and most corporations won't do it, good or bad. 

Vacation and Sick leave or PPL, paid personal leave, here is considered "earned" money in most jobs and it is payable in your final check unless you have a contract or other legal document that says otherwise. So those are some things I'd check into in addition to whatever the lawyer says about the "document".


----------



## Rainaisabelle

anndankev said:


> Please IMMEDIATELY change your passwords to HorseForum, your personal email, and all accounts that you have accesses from a work computer, or any computer that is linked to/connected to/or networked to their system.


Oh I just understood what this was referring to awkward..


----------



## Golden Horse

Just wondering how people would feel about a co worker, or an employee with this attitude to their job:


When Im off work, I dont want to be around co workers. Just like everyday, once the clock hits 3:15 Im out of here in a flash like you wouldnt believe. I hurry out. I dont care if anyone gets offended or takes notice. Im off work and I have a place to go to and someone to see and take care of. Thats all that is on my mind. I do not like staying even 2mins past. I grab my bag, change real quick and Im off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Golden Horse said:


> Just wondering how people would feel about a co worker, or an employee with this attitude to their job:
> 
> 
> When Im off work, I dont want to be around co workers. Just like everyday, once the clock hits 3:15 Im out of here in a flash like you wouldnt believe. I hurry out. I dont care if anyone gets offended or takes notice. Im off work and I have a place to go to and someone to see and take care of. Thats all that is on my mind. I do not like staying even 2mins past. I grab my bag, change real quick and Im off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



UMMMM, you just described every deputy I've ever known at EOW when they didn't get held over. May or may not stick around for "choir practice" but at EOW, if you're waitin' on me, you're backin' up. 

A job is just that, a way to make money. I work to live, not live to work. When I'm at work, they get 110% every day all day, but when it's time to go home, if I don't have to stay, you won't see me for dust. ANY job that wants to take over your personal life, when you are not taking your identity from your job, is a bad fit and you should find another. 

Even as a career once I was off duty I was not expected to hang around the station. I might have to if I had paperwork hanging but again, I was working on that, not there to socialize. Friendly, yes, overly involved, no. So, if that was a part of Hoofpic's job, then he needs to find one that's more technically oriented and less social since he's not so comfortable there.


----------



## jaydee

In my last job in the UK I had 30 members of staff reporting to me. As long as they did their job properly I didn't care what they did with their lives or if we had anything in common. 
Most of the staff only wanted to pick up their stuff and head home at the end of their shift, very few were 'friends' out of work.


----------



## Hoofpic

anndankev said:


> Please IMMEDIATELY change your passwords to HorseForum, your personal email, and all accounts that you have accesses from a work computer, or any computer that is linked to/connected to/or networked to their system.


Yip I did this just an hour ago. I tried to close my facebook account (was only used for work) and they changed the password!!!! WTF!


----------



## Hoofpic

Ok, I got some significant news!!!

*Talked with 2 lawyers.*

*The first lawyer,* I pretty much read my entire termination form to him and he said that there is nothing on it that states I cant get EI if I do indeed accept the severance package of 1 month's gross pay and sign the papers. He also said that 1 month severance is more than fair seeing how I was with the company for 1 year and 9 months. He said it was 1 week in advance pay (by Alberta employment law, if you work between 3 months and 2 years, you are entitled to 1 week of extra pay). So the 1 week of pay plus 3 weeks of severance. He said to accept the offer because for what it would cost to hire him at $500/hour, its not worth it.

*So I called a second lawyer *to get another opinion, I did read part of the letters to him and he said that it doesnt say anywhere on it that I cant get EI if I sign them and accept the severance. But he said he will still need to physically read the letter himself to confirm. (Great guy, was talking to him for over half hour on the phone) However, he said that 1 month of severance pay is a lowball offer and I should request 2 months minimum. He said by the company offering just 1 month severance pay, that they are hoping I will hire a lawyer to get more, than the company refuses to pay it, then I lose out on the lawyer fees and I now have to accept the original lowball offer. He said this is 100% their intention behind it, to lowball me

Now he went over my options and said I can do two things.

1) Go back to them and request 2 months severance. I told him that this wont work, I know they wont do it and they wont take me seriously. He said that most of his clients who do this, the company wont take them seriously when they say that they will get a lawyer involved if they refuse to pay more in severance, because they wont believe that the former employee will actually follow through. I know 100% this wont work, so if I want more, I will get this lawyer to write a demand letter for me.

2) Get him to write up a demand letter (he can get it to them this week) at $400/hr. He said it would only take him one hour to write it up. He will demand 2 months severance in it and said that because this is such a small amount of money to deal with, companies will want to just get it over and done with so chances are he will at least be able to pull more money for me from the company, even if its not the exact proposed amount on his letter. It might be half way, it might be 2/3 the way. But it also could be nothing. If its nothing, then I lose that $400 out of my own pocket. But the lawyer said that, when companies get a demand letter from a lawyer, they will negotiate and because this is dealing with such a small amount, it will be dealt with very fast.

So what are your guys thoughts? I got the lawyers email and all the papers that he would need from me to type up the letter. Im sure he's going to be ****ed thinking Im being greedy, trying to milk the company, by pulling more money etc. 

If I hire this lawyer to write a demand letter for me, you can **** right bet that I just burned my bridge with the company and my former boss.

Also, I will note (and Im not sure if this was intentional on the bosses behalf...I will give them the benefit of the doubt that it was an uncaught mistake that slipped by) but yesterday when they gave me my final pay cheque, it only covered 3 days that I worked when it should have been 7 PLUS 2.5 hours of OT. 

I immediately brought this to my former bosses attention yesterday after I left and he literally JUST sent me an image of the new cheque with the correct amount on it. Im glad I caught this. Like I said, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that this was just a mistake on their part, but I sure hope it was not an intentional way in trying to short change me.


----------



## elle1959

I think the second lawyer sounds like he wants your $400.00. What he said doesn't make any sense. First he's telling you they lowball you hoping you'll hire a lawyer so they can do something to make you accept the lowball offer? Sounds like more work for everyone, more angst for you, and more money out of your pocket. 

Then he says he has a magical solution that will make them fail at what he just said they are hoping for? I am not sure I understand why they're hoping you'll hire a lawyer when in the next breath he says that hiring HIM will be your ticket to a better severance package-- for $400.00. 

Bottom line is I'd just take the severance offer. The first lawyer sounded like he's being straight with you.


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## Hoofpic

elle1959 said:


> I think the second lawyer sounds like he wants your $400.00. What he said doesn't make any sense. First he's telling you they lowball you hoping you'll hire a lawyer so they can do something to make you accept the lowball offer? Sounds like more work for everyone, more angst for you, and more money out of your pocket.
> 
> Then he says he has a magical solution that will make them fail at what he just said they are hoping for? I am not sure I understand why they're hoping you'll hire a lawyer when in the next breath he says that hiring HIM will be your ticket to a better severance package-- for $400.00.
> 
> Bottom line is I'd just take the severance offer. The first lawyer sounded like he's being straight with you.


Im definitely getting two completely opposite opinions so Im waiting to hear back from a 3rd lawyer the make a decision.

The second lawyer does say that 1 month severance is a lowball offer. He said they did this, in you seeing that its a lowball and that you want more, so you hire a lawyer to write the demand letter. The company doesnt bargain, then you are out the lawyer fees and you accept the original offer because you are at a stale mate.

The second lawyer also said that it also depends on how long you feel it would take you to find a new job and that 1 month is not much at all.


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## Hoofpic

Rainaisabelle said:


> Maybe this is a good thing and you will be able to find a job doing something you really enjoy


Thanks. Well like I said, I did have a thread awhile back on here where I was second guessing my job cause I didnt have it in me, my heart just wasnt there anymore.



gypsygirl said:


> They will probably mail you a letter for why you were let go. At least it seems like that's what they do in the states.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, but I think here they just mail the T4.


----------



## Whinnie

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> UMMMM, you just described every deputy I've ever known at EOW when they didn't get held over. May or may not stick around for "choir practice" but at EOW, if you're waitin' on me, you're backin' up.
> 
> A job is just that, a way to make money. I work to live, not live to work. When I'm at work, they get 110% every day all day, but when it's time to go home, if I don't have to stay, you won't see me for dust. ANY job that wants to take over your personal life, when you are not taking your identity from your job, is a bad fit and you should find another.
> 
> Even as a career once I was off duty I was not expected to hang around the station. I might have to if I had paperwork hanging but again, I was working on that, not there to socialize. Friendly, yes, overly involved, no. So, if that was a part of Hoofpic's job, then he needs to find one that's more technically oriented and less social since he's not so comfortable there.


 I was also Law Enforcement. The office was for working, when the shift changed no one was there unless finishing paperwork. Any socialization was usually getting together for meals or coffee breaks. I was paid hourly with overtime pay when earned. I was not expected to stay unless I had work.

Expectations were different in another job I had. I was salaried. I was expected to be available for certain activities outside my "work" hours and to get along with co-workers as a large team. Office culture is different depending on the type of work. It is obvious that more was expected from Hoofpic and that the job is not a good fit for him. I don't think it was a matter of taking over his life, I think there were opportunities presented when he was expected to put in a little extra effort and he turned every opportunity down.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Whinnie said:


> I don't think it was a matter of taking over his life, I think there were opportunities presented when he was expected to put in a little extra effort and he turned every opportunity down.


My point was though, that he probably FELT like the job was trying to take over his life. For someone who doesn't do a lot of socializing that office kind of sounds like maybe you'd think you died and went straight to Hades.


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## Rainaisabelle

Whinnie said:


> Dreamcatcher Arabians said:
> 
> 
> 
> UMMMM, you just described every deputy I've ever known at EOW when they didn't get held over. May or may not stick around for "choir practice" but at EOW, if you're waitin' on me, you're backin' up.
> 
> A job is just that, a way to make money. I work to live, not live to work. When I'm at work, they get 110% every day all day, but when it's time to go home, if I don't have to stay, you won't see me for dust. ANY job that wants to take over your personal life, when you are not taking your identity from your job, is a bad fit and you should find another.
> 
> Even as a career once I was off duty I was not expected to hang around the station. I might have to if I had paperwork hanging but again, I was working on that, not there to socialize. Friendly, yes, overly involved, no. So, if that was a part of Hoofpic's job, then he needs to find one that's more technically oriented and less social since he's not so comfortable there.
> 
> 
> 
> I was also Law Enforcement. The office was for working, when the shift changed no one was there unless finishing paperwork. Any socialization was usually getting together for meals or coffee breaks. I was paid hourly with overtime pay when earned. I was not expected to stay unless I had work.
> 
> Expectations were different in another job I had. I was salaried. I was expected to be available for certain activities outside my "work" hours and to get along with co-workers as a large team. Office culture is different depending on the type of work. It is obvious that more was expected from Hoofpic and that the job is not a good fit for him. I don't think it was a matter of taking over his life, I think there were opportunities presented when he was expected to put in a little extra effort and he turned every opportunity down.
Click to expand...

I agree with both lol I work as an AIN at the hospital at the moment just specialing patients and it's good money! But beyond talking to the people in the office about when I can work it doesn't go beyond that not that I can't make friends except you arrive at the office are sent to where you are allocated. 

In saying that though, I am a nursing student as well and I know for a fact that people prefer the nurse who likes to decorate the wards and get involved in after hours activities. I

I do agree though that we work to make money and a living but I bet if we had a choice we wouldn't ! No offence to hoofpic though I don't believe 110% was given.


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## anndankev

Have you caught up with you PM Inbox?


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## Remali

So sorry this happened to you. Glad to hear you are talking to an attorney, whether or not you actually hire one, it's a good idea to make sure you are not getting ripped off from your employer. I was fired from almost every job I ever had, because of my health issues (I did miss a lot of work, and I had/have had my health issues all of my life), even though you haven't done anything wrong, I know how it feels to be let go or fired or laid off, it's not a good feeling. Hang in there, things will get better.


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## Whinnie

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> My point was though, that he probably FELT like the job was trying to take over his life. For someone who doesn't do a lot of socializing that office kind of sounds like maybe you'd think you died and went straight to Hades.


 That is probably true. But anywhere you work is going to expect you to focus on work when you are at work. And that office may be very average and normal to the majority of people working there. I hope Hoofpic finds a better working environment for his personality.


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## Remali

I just had a thought... and forgive me if this has already been mentioned (I haven't read all of the posts, yet). Perhaps request your entire personnel file? You would be able to read everything in it. That is, if you are comfortable doing that. I believe that you would have to go in to your former employer, in person (or, well, call first), and review your file there at the office. I did that, once, after I got some harassment at work due to my health issues, and I was eventually let go. I went in and looked thru my entire file... it was quite interesting, and very helpful (in getting unemployment and so on). I also spoke to an attorney, but where I live there are virtually no laws protecting employees for being let go.


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## anndankev

Was your FB account under your personal email? I don't know if FB works that way. If so then they already used a password that should have been unknown to them.

Can you email or send a request to FB to reset your password? Then close the account or remove your personal info. Seems a lot of damage could be done to you by someone able to pose as you on your own site.

About Atty 2 with the $400 fee. He is going to request/demand/negotiate for 2 months rather than 1 month salary, then accept 1/2, 2/3, or nothing.

So by accepting 1/2 or nothing of 2 months you would definitely be in the hole. Not sure if 2/3 would cover the difference.

If they want you to sign the paper ask for 6mo or 12mo equivalent. At least what you could get from EI, and depending upon what the company requires you to do to settle for that could be worth it to them.

EI will go after them for the 1 week required by law.

Or simply do not sign and return any paper. They have already let you go-essentially they are done with you, you can simply be done with them, too.


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## EponaLynn

Hoofpic said:


> Yip I did this just an hour ago. I tried to close my facebook account (was only used for work) and they changed the password!!!! WTF!


 This pretty much standard procedure as if you were vindictive (and some who are fired are) you could have been on there posting all kinds of crap....just let it go.


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## EponaLynn

Lawyer #2 is a bad bet. First off, it doesn't take 1 hour to write a letter like that, especially if that's his specialty....20 minutes maybe. I bet if you take this route, you end up out $400!

It's too bad you didn't know an attorney who would do it for you. I did this once and got 3 or 4 months pay, even though I'd only been there a short time. They'd lured me away from a great job I'd been at 7 years, and I had just passed the 3 month probation period with them, but then the company got taken over by another, and the new people wanted only their peeps in all the positions....they actually made my work life so unbearable hoping I'd quit so I contacted a lawyer and he wrote me a letter to give to them in the am. He said they would immediately fire me (which they did) but they had to pay me more or get into a lawsuit.

That lawyer I used was no where near $400 but it was 1987 in Toronto!


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## Hoofpic

Whinnie said:


> It is obvious that more was expected from Hoofpic and that the job is not a good fit for him. I don't think it was a matter of taking over his life, I think there were opportunities presented when he was expected to put in a little extra effort and he turned every opportunity down.


The company is now preaching more on a team building culture (hence the meeting last week) as theyre shifting their culture a bit and obviously im not a fit.

I didnt turn every oppurtunity down, I still went to every "mandatory" after hour event and about half of the optional ones. Im not going to trash talk the owners but they are incredibly cheap and if it wasnt for them being so stingy on having every event" after hours" and never willing to have any during work hours, then it would at least encourage the staff more a bit. I have busted my behind helping out at these mandatory events (because I wanted a bigger year end bonus), Ive even stayed late and was often the last few people there in helping clean up. And the fact my bonus stayed the same as last year is a complete insult. 

But lets not go on about that. Ive had relatively positive energy around me today and I want to keep it that way. I have not been dwelling on anything which is good!


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## DraftyAiresMum

Hoofpic said:


> The company is now preaching more on a team building culture (hence the meeting last week) as theyre shifting their culture a bit and obviously im not a fit.
> 
> I didnt turn every oppurtunity down, I still went to every "mandatory" after hour event and about half of the optional ones. Im not going to trash talk the owners but they are incredibly cheap and if it wasnt for them being so stingy on having every event" after hours" and never willing to have any during work hours, then it would at least encourage the staff more a bit. I have busted my behind helping out at these mandatory events (because I wanted a bigger year end bonus) and the fact my bonus stayed the same as last year is a complete insult.
> 
> But lets not go on about that. Ive had relatively positive energy around me today and I want to keep it that way. I have not been dwelling on anything which is good!


We don't have "events" on the clock. Meetings, yes. But the only time I've ever had an "event" on the clock was when we provided Thanksgiving dinner for the employees who had to work Thanksgiving. No company I have ever worked for (which has been a fair few in my not-so-long work history) ever had "events" on the clock. On-the-clock time is for working, not socializing.


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## greentree

At least you GOT a bonus!!!


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## Hoofpic

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> My point was though, that he probably FELT like the job was trying to take over his life. For someone who doesn't do a lot of socializing that office kind of sounds like maybe you'd think you died and went straight to Hades.


I wouldnt say that I felt the job was trying to take over my life, but instead my efforts throughout the time I was there often went greatly under appreciated. Im not trying to make it sound like Im some big shot, but the owners often underestimated just how big of a role I was in the company and just how much I did for them. One of the owners even said it to me earlier this year, that many people in the company dont acknowledge just how much I do in the company. 

I highly highly HIGHLY doubt my former boss is still taking his vacation in Jan 2016 because he will need to train whoever he finds to replace me and that takes months. I had a bible that I wrote (bible = training manual) that it literally took me months to write and I was constantly updating it. I was going to toss it in the shredder yesterday when I was packing but I left it in my drawer for the new replacement. I did it for him/her, not the company. Because I spilled alot of hours into putting that together and I wanted to pass on a nice gesture.

Its ironic because even though I didnt bond with a single staff member there, I did bond and have formed (I would say a couple handfuls) of solid great ongoing friendships with some realtors in the company and some mortgage brokers. Before my email account got closed last night, I quickly logged in, fired some of them off an email letting them know that Im no longer with the company and that it was a pleasure knowing them, having good laughs and will hopefully meet down the road sometime. It was unfortunate I couldnt say goodbye to all of them.

I hate to admit but I almost had a couple tears come out as it clearly got to me. They are truly great people that I had a really strong and great relationship with. I had a couple of them text me just this afternoon when I was at the barn (totally caught me by surprise) asking where Im off to. I just told them that I got laid off and they said that they know I will be back on my feet again. Its great knowing there are at least a couple people in the company who I did have a great solid bond with. It hit me just like that knowing how sudden things can change. It was just a week and a half ago where we were hanging out for a few hours at the kids Christmas party helping the kids with face painting. Now, we have parted ways.


----------



## Hoofpic

anndankev said:


> Have you caught up with you PM Inbox?


Yes, just did 



Remali said:


> So sorry this happened to you. Glad to hear you are talking to an attorney, whether or not you actually hire one, it's a good idea to make sure you are not getting ripped off from your employer. I was fired from almost every job I ever had, because of my health issues (I did miss a lot of work, and I had/have had my health issues all of my life), even though you haven't done anything wrong, I know how it feels to be let go or fired or laid off, it's not a good feeling. Hang in there, things will get better.


Thanks 



Whinnie said:


> That is probably true. But anywhere you work is going to expect you to focus on work when you are at work. And that office may be very average and normal to the majority of people working there. I hope Hoofpic finds a better working environment for his personality.


WIth my role in the company (because I always worked by myself for the most part), I didnt really need to be super social with others since I never worked on anything with anyone else. If anything I communicated 100 times more with a couple co workers through email than I did in person and that is because we didnt really relate. Did it ever get lonely on the job? yes definitely but I got used to it. But it was definitely one of the things that I least liked about the job. I know you would think an introvert like me would rather work alone than with others right? Well I can work just as well with others, if Im put in the right situation and I have stuff in common with those people. I didnt ever need to work with others and I didnt have anything in common with anyone at work (the internal staff that is) so because of this, Im seen as an anti-social, socially awkward introvert.

So what im saying is, even though the company is going the direction of becoming more team orientated, I wasnt really in a situation for it since I didnt ever have to relate to any other depts in the company except for one or two (and it was maybe once a week if that).


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

Hoofpic said:


> The only thing is that, my HR is my boss since he is the one who hired me. I never went through an HR person.
> 
> I could contact payroll, but not sure if she is the right person to answer but I did see my boss sit and talk with her today. But again, he very well could have not told her anything but to write out my final cheques.


IM(unqualified)O

You need to see an independent mediator. It is your right to understand what has happened.

Did your company keep you up to date with training as required on the job? Your laws are different to ours but could be worth checking. Over here an employer can not 'let you go' 'fire you' or anything else, then hire someone else for the same job without proper procedure and solid grounds for doing so. That would include verbal and written notice, not 'sorry we have to let you go, leave now' without so much as a why. Something is not right and you need legal guidance on this.

It is a very emotional time but you need to deal with it without the emotion, so an independent person is key. You should not even try to deal with this alone, you don't have all the information you need from any direction and without outside help you are at the mercy of you company's whim, which is obviously not in your interest.


----------



## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> Lawyer #2 is a bad bet. First off, it doesn't take 1 hour to write a letter like that, especially if that's his specialty....20 minutes maybe. I bet if you take this route, you end up out $400!
> 
> It's too bad you didn't know an attorney who would do it for you. I did this once and got 3 or 4 months pay, even though I'd only been there a short time. They'd lured me away from a great job I'd been at 7 years, and I had just passed the 3 month probation period with them, but then the company got taken over by another, and the new people wanted only their peeps in all the positions....they actually made my work life so unbearable hoping I'd quit so I contacted a lawyer and he wrote me a letter to give to them in the am. He said they would immediately fire me (which they did) but they had to pay me more or get into a lawsuit.
> 
> That lawyer I used was no where near $400 but it was 1987 in Toronto!


I have a 3rd lawyer calling me tomorrow morning and going over my papers. I just send it to them. No charge, yay! The 2nd lawyer wanted $100 just to read them.

I still think I can get more than 1 months pay and I must have readd the darn thing 6 or 7 times now and its 100% clear on it that it states by me signing the papers, I will not hold the company against me collecting E.I.

If I sign the papers im going to ask my boss to alter this line.


----------



## Hoofpic

ShirtHotTeez said:


> IM(unqualified)O
> 
> You need to see an independent mediator. It is your right to understand what has happened.
> 
> Did your company keep you up to date with training as required on the job? Your laws are different to ours but could be worth checking. Over here an employer can not 'let you go' 'fire you' or anything else, then hire someone else for the same job without proper procedure and solid grounds for doing so. That would include verbal and written notice, not 'sorry we have to let you go, leave now' without so much as a why. Something is not right and you need legal guidance on this.
> 
> It is a very emotional time but you need to deal with it without the emotion, so an independent person is key. You should not even try to deal with this alone, you don't have all the information you need from any direction and without outside help you are at the mercy of you company's whim, which is obviously not in your interest.


I called legal guidance (govt funded) this morning first thing (they handle wrongfully dismissed individuals), and the only thing with them is that you need to be qualified as low income and need to go through their process of applying and seeing if you qualify to be funded by their guidance, where you pay a reduced lawyer fee. Im not sure if i want to go through all this work. 

Im still trying to track down more lawyers on this matter (I will ask the one tomorrow as well) but im not sure what options i have in this as far as who I can reach out to.

Did the company keep me up to date on training? The training only came from my boss and it was spuratic (here and there) because for the most part, we didnt really bring new stuff in all very often. But I would say yes it was up to date.


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## EponaLynn

Hoofpic said:


> If I sign the papers im going to ask my boss to alter this line.


You can simply scratch that line out and initial it, and sign the bottom and bring it to them. I'd be taking control here, not asking your boss, he is no longer your boss and this is your life. 

Remember one thing, the company wrote this document completely in their favor, actually I can pretty much guarantee that they had a lawyer do it for them. You need to have some of your interests included. 

Maybe when you ask about using them as a reference, you can get a letter from them, as a bargaining tool, to sign the letter that is skewed completely in their favor. Honestly! It might be more worth you while than an extra month's pay if it helps you get another job.


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## aubie

No expert but from what I am thinking while getting legal advice/information/knowledge is a good thing, not sure from what I am seeing that its the way to go if you're only going to get a month or 2 at the most more. The lawyer is going to take a cut out of everything. And if he has to do more than a letter, like some kind of filing, that may become public record that a future employer may come across. They wouldn't say that's why you don't get hired of course, but it could come into play. And you have to consider if other employers would find out through the grapevine. Bridge burning may end up costing you more than a month ot twos pay. Just something to think about.


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## sarahfromsc

What would happen if you didn't sign it?


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## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> You can simply scratch that line out and initial it, and sign the bottom and bring it to them. I'd be taking control here, not asking your boss, he is no longer your boss and this is your life.
> 
> Remember one thing, the company wrote this document completely in their favor, actually I can pretty much guarantee that they had a lawyer do it for them. You need to have some of your interests included.
> 
> Maybe when you ask about using them as a reference, you can get a letter from them, as a bargaining tool, to sign the letter that is skewed completely in their favor. Honestly! It might be more worth you while than an extra month's pay if it helps you get another job.


Im 100% going to ask them to remove that line (or state on the paper that they will not fight me when I apply for EI) before I sign it.

If they wont do this then I will most likely get a lawyer to send them a demand letter. But if I go this route, you can pretty much kiss that reference from my former boss good bye as I pretty much just burned that bridge. Im sure he will be upset, unimpressed by me, thinking Im being selfish, greedy, you name it.

But you are right, he is no longer my boss, I do not need to take any crap from him (or anyone in the company for that matter), and this is all about making the best decision for me, thats it. Me, not them.

If they will alter the agreement to my preference so that I can sign for EI, and sign it then I will POTENTIALLY accept the lowball offer of 1 month severance. But I will need to see what the 3rd lawyer says tomorrow on what he feels is a reasonable severance package.

Technically the 1 month package is only 3 weeks because the other week is from rule 56 in the Alberta work rule book; Companies must give one weeks notice, or one week of extra pay for anyone who works between 3 months and 2 years.

otherwise its a wrongful dismissal and I can sue them! (Though this is the route I really do NOT want to take, lawyer fees go way up, the time involved to settle it, uhhhh its gonna be a mess).

But I also might still send a demand letter to them.

Personally, I dont think my boss and HR are going to fight me on altering that agreement so that it states that they wont fight me on EI. I really do believe they will cooperate with me on it. But again the owners of the company are cheapskates so nothing would surprise me at this point.

But if I get a lawyer to send them a demand letter, I think that will really raise a few eyebrows in the company and even to the owners. You can pretty much kiss that reference good bye if I do this. I know they will not take it well. My former boss will be upset, most likely wont even want to shake my hand.

I will be more clear on this in the morning when I have a phone call convo withthe 3rd lawyer, who actually has a copy of my papers through email to physically see and read verbatim. Im feeling optimistic.


----------



## Hoofpic

WOW, A BIG BIG BIG BOMB JUST DROPPED!!!!

I just checked my company site to see if they still have my photo up on the staff page. Nope. Good, as expected. But what I didnt expect was that they already have a new hire up in place of me?!?! WOW!

Ok this is not right. They just wrongfully dismissed me and they already have a new hire not even 24 hours later? They could get in to serious trouble. No way this is legal what they just did.

OK I AM ABSOLUTELY ****ED RIGHT NOW, WHY? BECAUSE MY FORMER BOSS JUST FLAT OUT LIED TO ME ON MONDAY. WOW Im speechless, I just dont know what to say.

Ok there has been this lady (around my age, very attractive, very socialble) who has been visiting the office a couple times over the past couple weeks. I initially met her 2 weeks ago, my former boss introduced her to me as a "friend" of his who is potentially looking to join the company as a realtor. I believed him.

Fast forward to this past Monday morning. Before our meeting, my former boss comes into the broadcast room and says "____" is here again this morning because she wants to see how our back stage production works and is fascinated by it. I thought to myself "ok hmmm" bit interesting, definitely caught my attention. People usually dont just "walk into our backstage room and observe" unless they work in the technology industry.


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## Hoofpic

And guess what, that girl is my replacement, she is up on the companys site right now. WOW is all I have to say. Congrats to my former boss for having the courtesy lying to my face on why she was there and who she really was. I knew something was fishy Monday morning. Like I said, people dont just come in to observe and sit with us unless they work in the industry and I knew **** well she does not work in the industry. But obviously my former boss thought I was dumb enough to just willingly lie to my face like im some idiot. Wow, I have lost major respect for my former boss.

You know what? There is no way Im asking for a reference letter from him. I dont want him as a reference. I have lost all respect for him that I once had. I honestly dont even know what to say, Im sitting here laughing in absolute disgust. Wow is all I have to say. 

I knew something was fishy Monday morning. So its obvious that his decision to let me go wasnt yesterday (the day of letting me go) but Monday! And he couldnt tell me Monday?

More about the new girl - not surprised he hired her. She's your perfect extrovert, very physically attractive and Im sure will most definitely attend every single after hour company event with my former boss.

Im most definitely mentioning this to the lawyer tomorrow. If I can get them in serious trouble I will, trust me. Right now, I dont care where this ends as I have no respect for my former boss what so ever. Im so sickened by whats transpired that if I was to see him today, right now, I wouldnt even look him in the eye.


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## Sloopy

Hoofpic, from what I understand, you're young. You have a full life ahead of you. Someday, you're going to look back on this whole situation and think, "I wasted so much thought on *that*? What a waste."

Though you couldn't prepare for the sting of job loss, you will persevere and find something that is a better fit. Even if the issue was ONLY interpersonal "fit", why would you want to stick around? 

A cooler head will prevail. Just take the letter to an attorney, have them prep you for accepting, modifying, OR rejecting the form. Then go from there. WITHOUT making waves. You will absolutely regret it if you let your emotions get the best of you. 

You've had time to process the burn, now cool down, relax, and look for your next adventure.


----------



## boots

You don't have to sign that, you know. Sign? Don't sign. It will make no difference regarding your EI.

But, even if you don't intend to seek damages, why on earth sign away a right?


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

It ain't what you know, it's who you......... Well...... Any way.


----------



## Hoofpic

Sloopy said:


> Hoofpic, from what I understand, you're young. You have a full life ahead of you. Someday, you're going to look back on this whole situation and think, "I wasted so much thought on *that*? What a waste."
> 
> Though you couldn't prepare for the sting of job loss, you will persevere and find something that is a better fit. Even if the issue was ONLY interpersonal "fit", why would you want to stick around?
> 
> A cooler head will prevail. Just take the letter to an attorney, have them prep you for accepting, modifying, OR rejecting the form. Then go from there. WITHOUT making waves. You will absolutely regret it if you let your emotions get the best of you.
> 
> You've had time to process the burn, now cool down, relax, and look for your next adventure.


My emotions were fine this morning when I got up and for all of today until I just found out what I found out.

My emotions will come back down, really quickly, dont worry. They will be back to normal by the morning. Why? Because I am keeping positive energy around me and I am better than this scumbag of a former boss.

Im just in absolute disgust, played like an idiot, lied to my face. 

Im sitting here laughing in disgust in shame for my former boss. Absolutely classless behaviour on his part. A total slap in my face for all I have done for him. I have nothing to say really.

Im sure glad I found out now, because trust me, when I go see him for the final time to do the deed, Im not going to be the same person from yesterday. I am going to walk in like I do at the barn, head up, chin up, shoulders back, back straight and Im going to walk in with a purpose and Im going to be all business. 

No "hows it going?", no "wish you a merry christmas", there will be no words coming out of my mouth except whats needed. I will still smile, but I will make it obvious that Im there to close the deal and thats it. And youre **** right that I will make it visually obvious that I have already and clearly moved on from the company. I think this is THE most important factor. To show him that I have already moved on and Im as strong as a person as I was when I left yesterday. 


I dont see him in the same light that I did just 36 hours ago. Talk about kicking me to the curb like Im some nobody. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Hoofpic

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> It ain't what you know, it's who you......... Well...... Any way.


Yes true but you know what? Do you think after how he's lied to my face and pretty much kicked me to the curb like Im some idiot, I want to continue knowing him? Use him as a ref? No chance.

He could say right now "You can use me as a ref"...I would decline because I no longer see him in the same light and I dont trust him. After whats transpired, I have no doubt he would intentionally screw me over. I could have potential future employers contact him and I could see him lying his way so I dont get the job.

Lets just say worst case scenario k?

I go in, he says "Would you like a ref letter from me?"...I would say "Ill pass thanks." That would totally catch him by surprise. Gaurenteed 100%. He would be shocked, and perhaps have to think for a sec on why I declined. That would send him an incredibly powerful message and one that would really stick as to why I declined. If he was smart, he would catch on, add the X and O's and know why I replied that way and rightfully so. The message that would send him would pretty much be, what I think of him from here on in.

Couple questions have already been answered.

1) I will not be asking him for a ref letter. He would laugh afterwards "I lied to this idiots face, let him go and he still wants to use me as a ref lol....what a clueless dolt". Im not that stupid.

2) I will not be asking him why i was let go because its been confirmed 100% just minutes ago. Its obvious that they wanted a completely fresh new and different face and personality in my role. So there you go folks, my introverted personality was most definitely a big factor in their decision.
It was about fit and my personality and persona wasnt in their "new" culture.


----------



## aubie

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> It ain't what you know, it's who you......... Well...... Any way.


When I saw the new information post,  thats the first thing that I thought of. If that is indeed the case, karma will rear its head soon enough. This is looking more and more like a blessing in disguise.


----------



## Hoofpic

aubie said:


> When I saw the new information post, thats the first thing that I thought of. If that is indeed the case, karma will rear its head soon enough. This is looking more and more like a blessing in disguise.


What new information post?

Karma? for who?

You dont know just how thankful I am in that I found this out PRIOR to meeting my former boss for the final time. Cause if I went in asking for reasoning, reference, I would look like a complete and clueless idiot. He would have a good laugh after because i clearly didnt catch on with whats transpired.

I hope he asks me if I want a ref letter so I can decline and send him that powerful message. Going by his body language yesterday, he wont ask but it sure would be nice!


----------



## aubie

The one about big bomb drop. The karma was for the boss. If he did make a hanky panky hire, it will blow up at some point. By then you will be in a better spot. The good news is it very well be that none of the reasons you think it happened had anything to do with it.


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

Over here it is illegal for an employer to sack someone then employ someone for that same position. The position would have to be totally different.


----------



## Hoofpic

aubie said:


> The one about big bomb drop. The karma was for the boss. If he did make a hanky panky hire, it will blow up at some point. By then you will be in a better spot. The good news is it very well be that none of the reasons you think it happened had anything to do with it.


Its all adding up now, all the dots are connecting. He obviously decided that he was going to let me go weeks ago, he was just trying to time it right so that I get let go before Christmas and the new person gets a tour or two before I leave. Sneaky. The final decision Im certain was made Monday when he got confirmation from the new girl that she will accept.

That would also explain the few dirty looks he has given me the past couple weeks when walking by his office or saying bye. Those dirty looks definitely caught my attention and I knew something was up. You know, its something called composure. Like the other girl who I dont like (and has absolutely no control over her emotions, she throws a raging fit at me and says im the one who is hard to communicate with *sigh oh please girl), having composure and never showing your feelings in the workplace is one of the greatest assets one can have. My boss has shown he doesnt not have it at times as he has slips and cracks. Thankfully, I do have incredibly good composure and I really do believe that people like myself dont get acknowledged nearly enough.

You know when the new girl walked in Monday morning, I knew something was up. Sorry but if she was a "friend" of yours as you say, and looking to join the company as a realtor, realtors dont sit in on back stage video productions. Even though I knew something was up, I just played along.

The guy obviously doesnt think much of me and thinks Im an idiot, otherwise he wouldnt have lied to me. He may think that, but I aint stupid. Im still incredibly observant and pick things up quickly. He may not think Im observing but I am. One quality that he does NOT know that you gain from being around horses  and that is one quality that my mare has taught me, in becoming much more observant of my surroundings. Thanks mare inkunicorn:

This whole instant switcheroo hanky panky is sneaky. You know if you want to bring in the new girl to see what we do so she has a better idea, either tell me that Im being let go PRIOR to her coming in and tell me who she really is, or bring her in when Im not there. Have some **** respect.


----------



## Hoofpic

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Over here it is illegal for an employer to sack someone then employ someone for that same position. The position would have to be totally different.


Im going to double check with the lawyer on this tomorrow as well. I actually do believe its legal here in Alberta.

Heres what I dont get. Ok, my former boss already had dead set intentions of letting me go, at least 2 weeks ago (Id say more like 3-4 weeks, at least!).

Why the hell did he make me attend the staff meeting last week that was all about "team building" and the company taking a bigger step when it comes to their culture? You had me do a speech about what I do in the company, knowing Im going to be let go less than a week after? Like really....

And there is no way he had me attend it, in a last attempt for me to change his opinion on letting me go cause he already interviewed the other girl.

Instead perhaps, could you not have wasted my time, save my face and have me not attend? Its basic logical common sense.

Its ironic because even though him and I are only a year apart in age, if I was in his shoes and he was in mine, I would have handled everything OH SO differently because I do believe in karma, I have composure and I treat everyone with dignity and respect no matter the circumstance. But yet I was seen by many as the less professional and less mature person in the company *sigh*


----------



## EponaLynn

Hoofpic said:


> He could say right now "You can use me as a ref"...I would decline because I no longer see him in the same light and I dont trust him. After whats transpired, I have no doubt he would intentionally screw me over. I could have potential future employers contact him and I could see him lying his way so I dont get the job.


Please don't burn bridges now while in an emotional state. 

Think about when you go out looking for a new job (which I assume you will need to care for yourself and your mare) and how you will explain almost 2 years of your immediate past. I honestly think if you could get a letter of reference you should. Your new employer won't know anything about your former or care, but they will care that you were employed.


----------



## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> Please don't burn bridges now while in an emotional state.
> 
> Think about when you go out looking for a new job (which I assume you will need to care for yourself and your mare) and how you will explain almost 2 years of your immediate past. I honestly think if you could get a letter of reference you should. Your new employer won't know anything about your former or care, but they will care that you were employed.


Yes good point but the thing is I dont trust him anymore.


----------



## boots

Heck, take the letter of reference. It may come in handy. 

Who cares if he's a dirty, rotten, so-and-so. You gotta look out for you and use whatever you have available.


----------



## EponaLynn

Hoofpic said:


> Yes good point but the thing is I dont trust him anymore.


You don't have to trust him if you have a letter from him. What will you do to explain the last 1.5 years of work history.


----------



## natisha

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Over here it is illegal for an employer to sack someone then employ someone for that same position. The position would have to be totally different.


They can just give it a different title.

OP, it is common practice there to go back to sign papers? Usually you get the last check mailed & it's done. Then file for unemployment.


----------



## Speed Racer

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Reference letters are useful, regardless of whether or not you like the person. 

You're still making huge assumptions and leaping to conclusions. How do you know this woman got hired for YOUR specific job? If they're restructuring, it's not unusual to let go of people they consider a bad fit and hire others. There's absolutely nothing illegal or immoral about it, and you're giving yourself far too much importance in the scheme of things.
Absolutely talk to employment attorneys and the EEOC, but your wild assumptions and 'connecting dots' aren't proof of anything. You need more than just your perceptions of persecution. 

Have you made any attempts at all to start looking for new employment, or are you so consumed with this perceived injustice that it's taking up all your time? That's a bad waste of personal resources, in my opinion. 

I'd honestly like to hear the other side of the story, as we're only getting your version. I'm betting the truth is far less dramatic, and you're a more peripheral character than you believe.

I do understand your pain, confusion and anger, but you'd be better served to move on with your life than try to get some sort of revenge on your previous employer.


----------



## franknbeans

I totally agree, SR, and yes, this will sound harsh. Stop dwelling on this and move on. OP-you said yourself you KNEW your performance was substandard-I guess I am a bit puzzled over why all the drama over this. People, especially those with (your word) "substandard" performance are replaced ALL The time. Yes, the boss typically (and in my profession in years of management) gives you verbal counselings then written, then out the door……but he didn't. Get over it. I will guarantee that every employee I ever fired somehow blames me. And regarding what to put on your resume for that 1.5 hers? Put that job. Without any counselings in your file(unless you were let go "for cause") they cannot say you are not "rehire able", and legally they cannot bad mouth you, ON THE RECORD. But I suggest you play nice in the sandbox-as you never know who knows who……and the world is a small place.

I also think that one month is more than fair-after all, it is not like you were with them years and years. The first lawyer was spot on. 

As for bonus? This makes me laugh honestly. Bonuses have come to be expected. However-they are not a right. They are earned, and some of us, in some professions NEVER get a bonus. We are expected to do our job. Period. Be happy you EVER got one. And...Guess what-our "raise" this year-1%. I will try not to spend it all in one place. lol


----------



## egrogan

Agree with Frank and Speed Racer here-fit is absolutely a valid reason for personnel decisions. Our whole hiring process is structured around assessing fit for the company and fit for the job. There's an entire academic field structured around studying and measuring fit as a factor in employee performance. And based on everything Hoofpic has written, he certainly doesn't see himself as a good fit.

And by the way, I hate the insinuation here that a "young attractive" woman is only being hired because she's sleeping with someone. That attitude is so pervasive and does such a disservice to women in the workplace, particularly in leadership roles. *end soapbox*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## greentree

You want to know something really strange??

Back when we were trying to tell you how to do one of the training things, I was going to tell you to think about how it would be if your boss brought in your replacement, and you had to train them......cue the music, Rod!


----------



## greentree

Are YOU a licensed realtor? She probably IS, so she can do dual jobs.

And, you WANT a letter, so that YOU can read it, as opposed to risking a future employer calling him, where you have NO idea what he will say. 

Dreamcatcher...he still has no idea what you mean....


----------



## jenkat86

Hoofpic, I'm a little late to the party. I'm really sorry to hear about you losing your job. I didn't read all the pages, but towards the beginning you were very adamant that he fired you because of your love for horses, basically. Do you still think this? Like I said...I didn't read through all the pages, so sorry. I did read where some girl swiped your job, in so many words. 

If for some reason you still think that (about the horses) this is my 2 cents, and I work in HR and administration. Employers should ENCOURAGE hobbies outside of work. An employee who eats, sleeps and lives "the job" 24/7 is often not an ideal employee. They get burned out and their performance suffers. So...basically your former boss is just stupid and you are much better off now. Now, you can find a career that will compliment your lifestyle.


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## sarahfromsc

You need to chill, take a deep breath, and not dwell on could haves, should haves, and what ifs.

You need to get off the computer and high tail it to the unemployment office and apply for YOUR benefits.

You need to get off the computer and start reaching out to business contacts and asking if they know of any openings in the field in which you are in.

You need to get off the computer, update your resume and start getting it 'out there'.

Your company has covered their legal behinds, so you need to move on emotionally and not worry about revenge.

You are wasting all your EMOTIONAL energy on a situation you cannot change. I will relay a story to you about wasting emotional energy.

Years and years ago I left my not very nice now ex husband. I had two children ages six months and almost three. My brothers came from the states they lived in to get my out. I did not take the one working car, because it was in his name and I didn't want him to come home to the empty house and report the car was stolen and his children kidnapped. In fact I didn't take ANYTHING, except our clothes.

I moved in with my mother in SC (took my 11 months to save enough to pay deposits). To shorten this story I shall skip through the minutia. The first thing I did was file for divorce in SC so there was a record of where I was living, and I got my SC drivers license. Both of which saved my butt legal 11 months later.

I found a job making $5.25 an hour. Now, granted I didn't have to pay rent, or utilities, or car payment. But I did have child care. For the six month old it was $125.00 a week; for the three year old it was $90.00 a week. Do the math.

When I filed the divorce papers, I did not seek alimony and child support. And I did this for two reasons: I did not want him in my life or my children's life; and, I knew he wouldn't pay and that I would have to ask the courts EVERY month to make him pay. That would have taken the very little, and valuable emotional energy I had away from the two children I brought into this mess. The man has never seen his children since the night before I left. They are now 25 and 21.

The moral of my tale is you, currently, are WASTING valuable emotional energy on something you will never win, gain, or profit from. STOP THE NONSENSE. Get on with your life and your future.

And do not burn bridges. Pride is a deadly sin, my friend, and it will hurt you if you do not swallow it now.


----------



## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> You don't have to trust him if you have a letter from him. What will you do to explain the last 1.5 years of work history.


Ok I will ask him for a letter of reference from him. I dont want to but I need to do it for myself, not him. Whats the benefits of a letter over just a regular reference where they get calls from employers?



natisha said:


> They can just give it a different title.
> 
> OP, it is common practice there to go back to sign papers? Usually you get the last check mailed & it's done. Then file for unemployment.


Not 100% sure but I would say no its not common practice. The fact they're even giving me my record of employment when I go back I was shocked when they said that. They always normally mail that to you.


----------



## Hoofpic

Speed Racer said:


> Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Reference letters are useful, regardless of whether or not you like the person.
> 
> You're still making huge assumptions and leaping to conclusions. How do you know this woman got hired for YOUR specific job? If they're restructuring, it's not unusual to let go of people they consider a bad fit and hire others. There's absolutely nothing illegal or immoral about it, and you're giving yourself far too much importance in the scheme of things.
> Absolutely talk to employment attorneys and the EEOC, but your wild assumptions and 'connecting dots' aren't proof of anything. You need more than just your perceptions of persecution.


I know the new girl is for my specific job because her profile and photo is in the spot where my profile and photo was. There is only 2 people who work in the department, my former boss and (now) her. I absolutely know 100% she is my replacement. 



> Have you made any attempts at all to start looking for new employment, or are you so consumed with this perceived injustice that it's taking up all your time? That's a bad waste of personal resources, in my opinion.


Havent started yet but have looked into my options in terms of what routes I can take. I have a feeling Im going to do a career change.

Right now, Im not dwelling on this or looking back, but I just want to get this paper settled, collect what I can and get it over and done with. Thats why this morning Im just going to give it to the lawyer to assess and go from there.



> I'd honestly like to hear the other side of the story, as we're only getting your version. I'm betting the truth is far less dramatic, and you're a more peripheral character than you believe.
> 
> I do understand your pain, confusion and anger, but you'd be better served to move on with your life than try to get some sort of revenge on your previous employer.


I know what you mean, Im going to move on trust me. Just need to get this paper settled first.



egrogan said:


> Agree with Frank and Speed Racer here-fit is absolutely a valid reason for personnel decisions. Our whole hiring process is structured around assessing fit for the company and fit for the job. There's an entire academic field structured around studying and measuring fit as a factor in employee performance. And based on everything Hoofpic has written, he certainly doesn't see himself as a good fit.
> 
> And by the way, I hate the insinuation here that a "young attractive" woman is only being hired because she's sleeping with someone. That attitude is so pervasive and does such a disservice to women in the workplace, particularly in leadership roles. *end soapbox*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have no problem with me being let go due to fit and them having a bit of a different culture from here on in. 

I think the biggest thing is that the new girl is 100% an extrovert. I saw it right away, which is fine. If my former boss wants someone who will match his personality a lot better than me, thats fine. Afterall my former boss and I are complete opposites. The fact that him and I managed almost two years of a working relationship is something to be proud of. But I do feel it truly did catch up to us and was a factor.

I do truly believe he gave me a valid reason as to why I was let go. "Them going in a bit of a new direction and him wanting someone who can potentially teach classes to the realtors" is a valid reason. I dont think he was trying to hide anything but I do know he was only saying the minimal needed so that he doesnt get himself in trouble (which is fine!).

When I saw the profile of the new girl, she was self employed in the public relations field and has experience working with realtors, brokers and other general real estate duties. So this links up as to him wanting someone with a more real estate background and why he would like that person to potentially teach classes.


----------



## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> You want to know something really strange??
> 
> Back when we were trying to tell you how to do one of the training things, I was going to tell you to think about how it would be if your boss brought in your replacement, and you had to train them......cue the music, Rod!


I dont remember this at all sorry.



greentree said:


> Are YOU a licensed realtor? She probably IS, so she can do dual jobs.
> 
> And, you WANT a letter, so that YOU can read it, as opposed to risking a future employer calling him, where you have NO idea what he will say.
> 
> Dreamcatcher...he still has no idea what you mean....


No my background is in admin and am self taught in technology (video production, photgraphy, publications etc). 
He never wanted a licensed realtor because what I did was entirely different, I just happened to work for a real estate firm. But now its obviously he wanted the role to expand and have the person in the role take on more of a real estate duty and slide a bit more into real estate. I couldnt offer it because I would need to go to school for it. Fair enough.

Yes you are right, the new girl can do dual jobs and therefore is much more valuable to him than I would be. So when he said "expanding" as a reason, it all makes sense now.

I do still feel my performance hit this year played a factor. If I didnt take a hit this year and lived up to his expectations, Im sure he would be patient with me to grow into a dual job and offering me to take real estate courses (of course on the companys expense). But seeing how he knows how invested I am into the horse world in my personal life, he would see that as a major barrier in getting me to commit. They may not have been THE main factors, but my performance hit and my heavy investment in the horse world were definitely factors.


----------



## greentree

Don't worry about remembering that...it was only a THOUGHT of mine...I do not remember what we were discussing at the time.....


----------



## Hoofpic

franknbeans said:


> I totally agree, SR, and yes, this will sound harsh. Stop dwelling on this and move on. OP-you said yourself you KNEW your performance was substandard-I guess I am a bit puzzled over why all the drama over this. People, especially those with (your word) "substandard" performance are replaced ALL The time. Yes, the boss typically (and in my profession in years of management) gives you verbal counselings then written, then out the door……but he didn't. Get over it.  I will guarantee that every employee I ever fired somehow blames me. And regarding what to put on your resume for that 1.5 hers? Put that job. Without any counselings in your file(unless you were let go "for cause") they cannot say you are not "rehire able", and legally they cannot bad mouth you, ON THE RECORD. But I suggest you play nice in the sandbox-as you never know who knows who……and the world is a small place.
> 
> I also think that one month is more than fair-after all, it is not like you were with them years and years. The first lawyer was spot on.
> 
> As for bonus? This makes me laugh honestly. Bonuses have come to be expected. However-they are not a right. They are earned, and some of us, in some professions NEVER get a bonus. We are expected to do our job. Period. Be happy you EVER got one. And...Guess what-our "raise" this year-1%. I will try not to spend it all in one place. lol


Thanks. 

I will go in, still shake his hand, wish him all the best, not show any grudges (despite me losing all respect for him as a person). I will go in do the deed, stay professional, be confident, be myself (I wont be super chatty with him, but I wont be a jerk) and my calm as a cucumber composure will come through. 

I was bitter last night because of him lying to me. Its just a major sign of disrespect. I gaurentee if I lied to him and he caught it, he would lose all trust in me. Gaurenteed. But you know what, he decided to lie, its already done and nothing I can do to change it. I just question him as a person thats all. With his dirty faces over the past few weeks, I saw some slips and cracks in his personality, but thats just who he is.

I will ask for the letter of reference ahead of time, perhaps even today I will fire him off an email to have HR prepare one for me. Wouldnt be a bad idea. 



jenkat86 said:


> Hoofpic, I'm a little late to the party. I'm really sorry to hear about you losing your job. I didn't read all the pages, but towards the beginning you were very adamant that he fired you because of your love for horses, basically. Do you still think this? Like I said...I didn't read through all the pages, so sorry. I did read where some girl swiped your job, in so many words.
> 
> If for some reason you still think that (about the horses) this is my 2 cents, and I work in HR and administration. Employers should ENCOURAGE hobbies outside of work. An employee who eats, sleeps and lives "the job" 24/7 is often not an ideal employee. They get burned out and their performance suffers. So...basically your former boss is just stupid and you are much better off now. Now, you can find a career that will compliment your lifestyle.


No he clearly was telling the truth when he said "expanding, the direction we are going, wanting someone who could teach"...it was just a very vague and generic response. He obviously wanted someone who could do dual jobs, which is fine by me. I understand that he didnt want to get into detail, and risk him getting himself into trouble or things being blown up. 

But I also respect people who are (like me) blunt and tell it as is. Constructive criticism is very important to me, Ive worked for bosses before who were built primarly on this and it really does make you a better worker and better person because you know what to improve on, fix etc. Ive always been told that me taking constructive criticism is one of my best assets. I respect a blunt person (which my boss wasnt), and I never take offense to anything. My former boss was not about constructive criticism at all, which was unfortunate.

ive worked for a couple really harsh bosses who were all about constructive criticism and were extremely hard on their staff. Staff have walked out of their offices in tears after being lectured, thats how hard they were on their staff. Not me, this is where my calm composure really shined. They werent bosses that I wanted to work under long term but I did learn some valuable lessons from them in becoming a better person. This was a boss who told me right to my face "you are not worth what im paying you". Hows that for a comment to your staff? Harsh, but thats how blunt she was.

My personality, performance and my heavy investment in the horse world were factors I can gaurentee that, smaller factors but they were still factors.

Think of it this way.

If my performance didnt take a hit this year and I met and or exceeded them, I would still possibly be let go simply because of them wanting to expand my role and because of my heavy investment in the horse world, it would be a barrier in getting me to commit to a real estate course paid by the company.

If my performance didnt take a hit this year and I met and or exceeded them, and I was not heavily invested into anything outside of work (at least not to the extend I am right now), then I would most likely be offered a raise, bonus and admission in taking a real estate course.


----------



## Hoofpic

sarahfromsc said:


> You need to chill, take a deep breath, and not dwell on could haves, should haves, and what ifs.
> 
> You need to get off the computer and high tail it to the unemployment office and apply for YOUR benefits.
> 
> You need to get off the computer and start reaching out to business contacts and asking if they know of any openings in the field in which you are in.
> 
> You need to get off the computer, update your resume and start getting it 'out there'.
> 
> Your company has covered their legal behinds, so you need to move on emotionally and not worry about revenge.
> 
> You are wasting all your EMOTIONAL energy on a situation you cannot change. I will relay a story to you about wasting emotional energy.
> 
> Years and years ago I left my not very nice now ex husband. I had two children ages six months and almost three. My brothers came from the states they lived in to get my out. I did not take the one working car, because it was in his name and I didn't want him to come home to the empty house and report the car was stolen and his children kidnapped. In fact I didn't take ANYTHING, except our clothes.
> 
> I moved in with my mother in SC (took my 11 months to save enough to pay deposits). To shorten this story I shall skip through the minutia. The first thing I did was file for divorce in SC so there was a record of where I was living, and I got my SC drivers license. Both of which saved my butt legal 11 months later.
> 
> I found a job making $5.25 an hour. Now, granted I didn't have to pay rent, or utilities, or car payment. But I did have child care. For the six month old it was $125.00 a week; for the three year old it was $90.00 a week. Do the math.
> 
> When I filed the divorce papers, I did not seek alimony and child support. And I did this for two reasons: I did not want him in my life or my children's life; and, I knew he wouldn't pay and that I would have to ask the courts EVERY month to make him pay. That would have taken the very little, and valuable emotional energy I had away from the two children I brought into this mess. The man has never seen his children since the night before I left. They are now 25 and 21.
> 
> The moral of my tale is you, currently, are WASTING valuable emotional energy on something you will never win, gain, or profit from. STOP THE NONSENSE. Get on with your life and your future.
> 
> And do not burn bridges. Pride is a deadly sin, my friend, and it will hurt you if you do not swallow it now.


Ok I will move on. I managed to keep positive energy around me yesterday and I will again apply it today.

You know the first night this happened, I was saying how I feel like crying when I go see my mare. I didnt see her that night but I saw her yesterday and I didnt cry because I wont allow myself to. 

I just need to talk with the 3rd lawyer this morning, get his opinion on the papers and then go from there. Im doing it not to get revenge on the company but to cover myself in making sure I dont get taken advantage of.
I need to look out for myself, thats it from here on in.

I will be sending my former boss an email later today on requesting for a ref letter to get prepped etc


----------



## Hoofpic

Got an OT question. Been doing some job searching on horse barn help.

Is it pretty hard to get into the horse barn industry when I have no past experience (in terms of being paid or officially hired by a barn) but have volunteered before and ran the week night and weekend feeds at the previous barn where I boarded at? Im familiar with everything - mucking stalls, paddocks, turn out, cleaning water troughs, harolding arenas, etc.

I want to work at a barn obviously. Places ask for a resume but not 100% sure on how I would go about tailoring mine.


----------



## churumbeque

Hoofpic said:


> WOW, A BIG BIG BIG BOMB JUST DROPPED!!!!
> 
> I just checked my company site to see if they still have my photo up on the staff page. Nope. Good, as expected. But what I didnt expect was that they already have a new hire up in place of me?!?! WOW!
> 
> Ok this is not right. They just wrongfully dismissed me and they already have a new hire not even 24 hours later? They could get in to serious trouble. No way this is legal what they just did.
> 
> OK I AM ABSOLUTELY ****ED RIGHT NOW, WHY? BECAUSE MY FORMER BOSS JUST FLAT OUT LIED TO ME ON MONDAY. WOW Im speechless, I just dont know what to say.
> 
> Ok there has been this lady (around my age, very attractive, very socialble) who has been visiting the office a couple times over the past couple weeks. I initially met her 2 weeks ago, my former boss introduced her to me as a "friend" of his who is potentially looking to join the company as a realtor. I believed him.
> 
> Fast forward to this past Monday morning. Before our meeting, my former boss comes into the broadcast room and says "____" is here again this morning because she wants to see how our back stage production works and is fascinated by it. I thought to myself "ok hmmm" bit interesting, definitely caught my attention. People usually dont just "walk into our backstage room and observe" unless they work in the technology industry.


 I try and hire someone before firing someone unless I fire them for misconduct and don't have time to get someone in place. There isn't anything wrong with that.


----------



## churumbeque

boots said:


> You don't have to sign that, you know. Sign? Don't sign. It will make no difference regarding your EI.
> 
> But, even if you don't intend to seek damages, why on earth sign away a right?


Because he would get 3500.00 to sign. Not many people would turn away that money


----------



## churumbeque

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Over here it is illegal for an employer to sack someone then employ someone for that same position. The position would have to be totally different.


 even if he wasn't doing his job?


----------



## EponaLynn

Hoofpic said:


> Got an OT question. Been doing some job searching on horse barn help.
> 
> Is it pretty hard to get into the horse barn industry when I have no past experience (in terms of being paid or officially hired by a barn) but have volunteered before and ran the week night and weekend feeds at the previous barn where I boarded at? Im familiar with everything - mucking stalls, paddocks, turn out, cleaning water troughs, harolding arenas, etc.
> 
> I want to work at a barn obviously. Places ask for a resume but not 100% sure on how I would go about tailoring mine.


Put your experience on the resume including everything single thing you've done (include working, turnout etc.). Ask the previous BO and any other friends at the barn if you can use them as a reference, if you're on good terms they may allow it. Most barns just want to know that you're competent. Here's a thought, you could tell them they could try you out for a day if your willing as that might get you in the door.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum

Hoofpic said:


> Got an OT question. Been doing some job searching on horse barn help.
> 
> Is it pretty hard to get into the horse barn industry when I have no past experience (in terms of being paid or officially hired by a barn) but have volunteered before and ran the week night and weekend feeds at the previous barn where I boarded at? Im familiar with everything - mucking stalls, paddocks, turn out, cleaning water troughs, harolding arenas, etc.
> 
> I want to work at a barn obviously. Places ask for a resume but not 100% sure on how I would go about tailoring mine.


You're going to find that there's little to no money in working at a barn. Especially not when you're used to making the kind of money you have been. Long hours, little pay, and you'll be completely exhausted to the point that you won't have much energy to do anything with your own horse. Not trying to dissuade you, just giving you the reality of the situation.


----------



## Hoofpic

churumbeque said:


> I try and hire someone before firing someone unless I fire them for misconduct and don't have time to get someone in place. There isn't anything wrong with that.


Oh ok thanks.



churumbeque said:


> Because he would get 3500.00 to sign. Not many people would turn away that money


I just need to make sure that the papers I got arent going to screw me out of getting EI. Right now it states it in many areas that if I accept the 1 month severance, I cant get EI.

The only way I will sign it is if the company states on it that they will not fight me on EI. 

Am expecting the phone call from the 3rd lawyer in about 15mins from now. That 20mins cant come soon enough.

I need to send off that email to my former boss TODAY and get this thing taken care of and finished.


----------



## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> Put your experience on the resume including everything single thing you've done (include working, turnout etc.). Ask the previous BO and any other friends at the barn if you can use them as a reference, if you're on good terms they may allow it. Most barns just want to know that you're competent. Here's a thought, you could tell them they could try you out for a day if your willing as that might get you in the door.


Ok thanks. Thats what I plan on doing, am going to update my resume tonight and create one specifically for barns.

Unfortunately the two barns I helped at I cant use as ref because the first one I had to leave because they didnt have insurance on me in case I was to get injured and I had to be a paid staff member in order to help out there (why they didnt know and tell me in the first place and not 5 weeks later is beyond me, but whatever). 

And the last barn I was at where I was boarding my mare, I left on bad terms because they were taking advantage of me and using me.



DraftyAiresMum said:


> You're going to find that there's little to no money in working at a barn. Especially not when you're used to making the kind of money you have been. Long hours, little pay, and you'll be completely exhausted to the point that you won't have much energy to do anything with your own horse. Not trying to dissuade you, just giving you the reality of the situation.


Thanks.

Im aware barns dont pay much because the profit margin is slim.

Im willing to take a bit of a paycut in exchange to do what I want to do, be around horses and care for them.

At my past job, I wasnt making as good of money as many of you think.


----------



## Hoofpic

Just got off the phone with the 3rd lawyer. 

He had the paper on him and read it all physically from top to bottom with his own eyes. We went over every section and he confirmed that there is nowhere on the papers that stated I could not get EI if I were to sign it.

He said that the severance package of (3 weeks severance, as the other week is lieu), is acceptable. Its on the low end but its within reason.

He said I could try to get two months out of them but its my call. Personally, I dont think i will be able to get two months out of them so I will pass on the demand letter. 

He did say that I could try negotiating with them to get more. The offer is $3500 (only 3 weeks severance), I could say that I will sign the papers if that offer is made from 3 weeks severance to 4 weeks severance. 

But I would take a chance in not getting that reference letter and having that bridge burned between my former boss and I. Thought the lawyer did say that, just because you negotiate and ask for more doesnt automatically count out the ref letter. He said that many still do get a ref letter even after negotiating.


----------



## Hoofpic

Here is my rough draft email to my former boss. I want to send it today after I finalize everything.

Tell me what you think? I think asking for 6 weeks of severance pay is more than reasonable on my part. 3 weeks may be reasonable but its on the low end.

Here is the email draft. Feel free to comment on any grammer or wording. Obviously Im not the best writer

---

*Termination papers*

The papers look fine, I will sign if we have that severance package adjusted from 4 weeks of gross pay to 7 weeks, since technically 1 week of that package is lieu pay. For any employment term between 3 months and 2 years, that member is entitled to 1 weeks of notice or lieu pay.

*Reference letter*

Can I have one prepared for me?

I can come in either tomorrow or Monday depending whether or not we can have these two things met.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum

So, if $3500 is equivalent to three weeks of pay...you're making a heck of a lot more money than I am, and I manage a 55-room hotel. :shock: Even once you make the conversion to USD. 

When I worked for a friend doing barn work, I made the equivalent of about $7/hr, if that. I cleaned anywhere from eight to ten stalls, turned out and brought in the horses in those stalls, filled waters, fed in the evenings, did general cleaning and maintenance around the barn, as well as working my friend's four horses AND my gelding...oh, and I taught a couple of lessons for her on the side, but she got paid for them, not me. All this in exchange for the stall fee to keep my horse there ($125 a month). 

Yes, I got taken advantage of. But unfortunately, it happens a lot in the horse business.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Wow you will be taking a heck of a pay cut like wooooow. I don't right lol?


----------



## Hoofpic

DraftyAiresMum said:


> So, if $3500 is equivalent to three weeks of pay...you're making a heck of a lot more money than I am, and I manage a 55-room hotel. :shock: Even once you make the conversion to USD.
> 
> When I worked for a friend doing barn work, I made the equivalent of about $7/hr, if that. I cleaned anywhere from eight to ten stalls, turned out and brought in the horses in those stalls, filled waters, fed in the evenings, did general cleaning and maintenance around the barn, as well as working my friend's four horses AND my gelding...oh, and I taught a couple of lessons for her on the side, but she got paid for them, not me. All this in exchange for the stall fee to keep my horse there ($125 a month).
> 
> Yes, I got taken advantage of. But unfortunately, it happens a lot in the horse business.


No no $3500 is 1 month of my gross pay and in CDN dollar. Not sure if its different in the U.S but here in Alberta, severance is always made out in that persons gross pay. My take home pay each month was $2500CDN, $30,000CDN ($21,490USD) annually. $20/hr gross, approx $15.50/hr net.

Rule 56 in the alberta workbook says 1 week of notice has to be given to any employment term from 3 months to 2 years. Either that or 1 week of lieu pay (which is the route the company took).

So that 4 week severance is 1 week of lieu and 3 weeks of severance. Confirmed this with the lawyer as well.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

If I were you'd I'd begin buy 2 minute noodles


----------



## DraftyAiresMum

Yeah, you still make more than me. lol I did all that math too.

I saw a meme on FB yesterday that made me laugh. It said "Went to check my account balance at the ATM. It printed me a coupon for Ramen noodles." Yeah, that's pretty much it when it comes to working in the horse world.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Don't get me wrong it's a dream we have probably all dreamed of but the money is barely enough for the cost of living.


----------



## Hoofpic

Rainaisabelle said:


> If I were you'd I'd begin buy 2 minute noodles


I dont get it.


----------



## Hoofpic

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Yeah, you still make more than me. lol I did all that math too.
> 
> I saw a meme on FB yesterday that made me laugh. It said "Went to check my account balance at the ATM. It printed me a coupon for Ramen noodles." Yeah, that's pretty much it when it comes to working in the horse world.


Oooooooh I get it now 



Rainaisabelle said:


> Don't get me wrong it's a dream we have probably all dreamed of but the money is barely enough for the cost of living.


True. I know barn hands dont make much at all.


----------



## EponaLynn

DraftyAiresMum said:


> So, if $3500 is equivalent to three weeks of pay...you're making a heck of a lot more money than I am, and I manage a 55-room hotel. :shock: Even once you make the conversion to USD.


Apples and oranges. Have you ever seen the price of things in Canada (I'm Canadian and spend 6 months there)? Gas is about double, housing is about 5-10 times or more (honestly a small fixer upper in Ontario can be $1.4M and an apartment can easily be $2500), food is double or more, clothing is WAY more etc. All in all, you can live a better life in AZ based on COL.

Also, the minimum wage in Canada is much higher than AZ so he'd get $11.20 for sure and they're trying to raise it to $15 as the COL is so high.

P.S. Gap jeans that I can get here for $29 are over $100 (with tax) in Canada, taxes are very high, all around!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Hoofpic said:


> DraftyAiresMum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you still make more than me. lol I did all that math too.
> 
> I saw a meme on FB yesterday that made me laugh. It said "Went to check my account balance at the ATM. It printed me a coupon for Ramen noodles." Yeah, that's pretty much it when it comes to working in the horse world.
> 
> 
> 
> Oooooooh I get it now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong it's a dream we have probably all dreamed of but the money is barely enough for the cost of living.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> True. I know barn hands dont make much at all.
Click to expand...

I'd think very carefully about it and how it's all going to work.


----------



## anndankev

Maybe you approach your current BO about working off your board.

If agreeable, then you could search for an additional job to meet your other monthly expenses.


----------



## Hoofpic

Ok I just sent the email to my former boss requesting the severance package be adjusted from 3 weeks to 6 weeks (total 7 with the 1 week lieu). That also gives room to negotiate because I know they won't match the 6 week request because the owners are cheapskates.

If they meet me half way, 4.5 weeks to 5 weeks, I would accept. Anything over a month for severance is fair IMO, but 3 weeks is (like the second lawyer said) a lowball.

I think 6 weeks of severance pay for a 1 year and 9 month employment term is more than reasonable without giving them the impression of being greedy. 

Will my former boss think differently of me when he reads the email? I would say yes. But I dont care. Im looking out for myself from here on in. He is no longer my boss and this is about me, not the company.


----------



## carshon

In my experience it may be very difficult to find a full time barn job that will pay well enough for you to live on your own. Especially with little experience with training, showing,breeding or professional grooming. Mucking stalls and feeding can be done by almost anyone that does not have a fear of horses.

There is a saying that says something like - I work so I can have a horse. It is very difficult to make horses a career - especially a lifelong career. 

I am not trying to dash your dreams but as most members on this forum would probably agree- horses have been a passion many of us a lifelong passion. But very few of us can pay the bills using our passion for horses.


----------



## jenkat86

I'll give you a little personal experience from working in the horse world, OP. In 2010 I got laid off from my job. I was able to receive unemployment benefits but it wasn't going to be enough to cover board for my mare and my bills. I worked out an agreement with my BO and began leading trail rides and doing things around the barn like mucking and feeding. I worked for board and whatever tips I made leading trail rides. She came to me shortly after and offered me a full time paid position doing what I was already doing, but also excising horses. I was actively looking for a job, and decided to tell her yes. I figured it would be better than my current situation while trying to find a "real job." Well...hindsight is 20/20. Because I took that position with her and the barn, I was then employed so I quit receiving unemployment. I was at the barn every single day from 5am to 9pm at night. I fed in the morning, turned horses out, did 8 hours of trail rides with no breaks, mucked stalls, worked 2-3 different horses, brought in horses, fed horses again, collected hay from the loft (in a separate barn) and stacked a wagon by myself, cleaned up the barn and then did one last check BEFORE I could even work with my mare which was usually between 930-10pm. I did all that...and still couldn't cover all my bills, which were not many at that time. That gig lasted 5 months, until I found a new job. And I will tell you, I aged 10 years in those 5 months. Me, my savings account and my credit score all took a hit during that time! I was exhausted every. single. day. I never got to spend time with my mare. My hobby became my job, and a hard one at that...and I hated it! 

If you want a barn job as something to fill a gap between careers, I see nothing wrong with it. It will give you tons valuable experience in regards to your own horse, but I don't think it's a good idea as a long term solution. I think with your education and skills you can find a career that will support your hobby without wearing you down. I'm in no way telling you, "NO! Don't do this!" Because I think you are going to do whatever you want to do...I just want to fill you in on my personal experience.


----------



## franknbeans

Hoofpic said:


> Ok I just sent the email to my former boss requesting the severance package be adjusted from 3 weeks to 6 weeks (total 7 with the 1 week lieu). That also gives room to negotiate because I know they won't match the 6 week request because the owners are cheapskates.
> 
> If they meet me half way, 4.5 weeks to 5 weeks, I would accept. Anything over a month for severance is fair IMO, but 3 weeks is (like the second lawyer said) a lowball.
> 
> I think 6 weeks of severance pay for a 1 year and 9 month employment term is more than reasonable without giving them the impression of being greedy.
> 
> Will my former boss think differently of me when he reads the email? I would say yes. But I dont care. Im looking out for myself from here on in. He is no longer my boss and this is about me, not the company.


 So, the way I read it-all they HAVE to give you is 1 week. Nothing more. Good luck.


----------



## SEAmom

Gotta say...I hope for your sake that your previous employer and every future employer you ever have never see this thread and link it to you.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

SEAmom said:


> Gotta say...I hope for your sake that your previous employer and every future employer you ever have never see this thread and link it to you.


I was going to say something about that earlier but it was a bit late.


----------



## Hoofpic

carshon said:


> In my experience it may be very difficult to find a full time barn job that will pay well enough for you to live on your own. Especially with little experience with training, showing,breeding or professional grooming. Mucking stalls and feeding can be done by almost anyone that does not have a fear of horses.
> 
> There is a saying that says something like - I work so I can have a horse. It is very difficult to make horses a career - especially a lifelong career.
> 
> I am not trying to dash your dreams but as most members on this forum would probably agree- horses have been a passion many of us a lifelong passion. But very few of us can pay the bills using our passion for horses.


Thanks for the insight, much appreciated.



jenkat86 said:


> I'll give you a little personal experience from working in the horse world, OP. In 2010 I got laid off from my job. I was able to receive unemployment benefits but it wasn't going to be enough to cover board for my mare and my bills. I worked out an agreement with my BO and began leading trail rides and doing things around the barn like mucking and feeding. I worked for board and whatever tips I made leading trail rides. She came to me shortly after and offered me a full time paid position doing what I was already doing, but also excising horses. I was actively looking for a job, and decided to tell her yes. I figured it would be better than my current situation while trying to find a "real job." Well...hindsight is 20/20. Because I took that position with her and the barn, I was then employed so I quit receiving unemployment. I was at the barn every single day from 5am to 9pm at night. I fed in the morning, turned horses out, did 8 hours of trail rides with no breaks, mucked stalls, worked 2-3 different horses, brought in horses, fed horses again, collected hay from the loft (in a separate barn) and stacked a wagon by myself, cleaned up the barn and then did one last check BEFORE I could even work with my mare which was usually between 930-10pm. I did all that...and still couldn't cover all my bills, which were not many at that time. That gig lasted 5 months, until I found a new job. And I will tell you, I aged 10 years in those 5 months. Me, my savings account and my credit score all took a hit during that time! I was exhausted every. single. day. I never got to spend time with my mare. My hobby became my job, and a hard one at that...and I hated it!
> 
> If you want a barn job as something to fill a gap between careers, I see nothing wrong with it. It will give you tons valuable experience in regards to your own horse, but I don't think it's a good idea as a long term solution. I think with your education and skills you can find a career that will support your hobby without wearing you down. I'm in no way telling you, "NO! Don't do this!" Because I think you are going to do whatever you want to do...I just want to fill you in on my personal experience.


Thank you Jenkat.

You are right, perhaps as a stop gap barn work is fine but not long term just because it doesnt give you the security.


----------



## Hoofpic

One of the branch managers called me today to say goodbye (we had a fairly close friendship, we worked together at the old office before we moved to the new crappy location). He asked if I got my record of employment yet and I said no, I wont be given it until I come back to the office for the last time. He said "WHAT?!!!" and that the record of employement should have been given to me when I got terminated and that legally (here) you cant go past 5 working days since termination without giving the individual his record of employment. Record of employment is always handed when the termination is done, always, never after.

He said that the papers I was given need to be signed otherwise I would legally still be employed by the company. Someone here (sorry forgot who) asked what would happen if I dont sign it. The company absolutely 100% needs me to sign them ASAP. He said hes going to route for me in trying to help me get that 6 weeks severance.

He also said that the new girl was actually hired 3 weeks ago! Not tues, not Monday, not the week before but 3 weeks ago! Wow really? And my former boss couldnt give me even a single week or days notice? Wow.


----------



## gypsygirl

Honestly, I think you should just sign the papers and take what they are giving you and move on. It's completely normal to have someone leave right when they are fired. At my job, they wont even let someone go back to their desk. They mail stuff out to you. 

There is no point in watching their site. It seems like you know why this job was not a good fit. 

I feel bad for you and a lot of us have been in a similar position, but it is best to just let got and move on. Remember, it has zero to do with your horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gypsygirl

Also, it's a bad idea to drag someone else that is currently employed there into it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hoofpic

gypsygirl said:


> Honestly, I think you should just sign the papers and take what they are giving you and move on. It's completely normal to have someone leave right when they are fired. At my job, they wont even let someone go back to their desk. They mail stuff out to you.
> 
> There is no point in watching their site. It seems like you know why this job was not a good fit.
> 
> I feel bad for you and a lot of us have been in a similar position, but it is best to just let got and move on. Remember, it has zero to do with your horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks. I know what you are saying but after talking with 5 lawyers now, 4 of the 5 have said to negotiate the severance package cause it is on the lowend.

Once this is all settled, trust me it will be in the past. Ive already started to update my resume today. Im NOT just sitting on this and waiting, Im actively moving forward while this release processed and settles out.

Here is a good quotes.



> Canadian employees who are dismissed “without cause” are usually entitled to a reasonable severance package. The actual definition of “wrongful dismissal” in Canada is simply a failure to provide that reasonable severance package.





> Some employees mistakenly believe that, upon dismissal, they are entitled to no more than the statutory right to severance found in employment standards legislation. There may be a few situations where only the employment standards payments are sufficient – such as for minimum wage or transient employees – but the remaining 95 per cent of the work force should not accept just the minimum. Aside from pre-negotiated severance agreements (discussed below), when ordinary employees are fired without misconduct, they must receive a fair warning in advance of their termination. This is referred to as a reasonable notice period. In most cases, employees are paid salary in place of this advance warning, which is commonly referred to as severance, and it is almost always more than the minimum amounts prescribed by legislation.





> Another common misconception is that the amount of severance is based on a rule of thumb, such as one month of pay for every year of employment. In reality, severance is based on how long it should take an employee, acting reasonably, to secure a similar job.





> Many employees believe severance packages are not negotiable. This is both incorrect and foolish. Employers offer an amount of severance that they believe employees will accept, not the amount that they are actually entitled to. Why? Because they know that statistically most employees will simply accept what they are given, happy to get anything at all. However, since most of these cases do not ever reach court, the fairness of a severance package is often in the eyes of the beholder – meaning they are negotiable so it makes sense to ask for more.


One lawyer mentioned factor in the time of year and that because of all the layoffs in the city right now, the EI office is getting slammed, so it will take longer for EI applications to process and for the economy to pick back up.


----------



## franknbeans

You have talked to 5 lawyers?? Wow. THis will go one as long as you let it. It is getting a life of its own and taking over yours. So, guess what I am saying is-in your mind it may never be "settled", and it will only delay you moving on. You are only hurting yourself, IMO.


----------



## Hoofpic

franknbeans said:


> You have talked to 5 lawyers?? Wow. THis will go one as long as you let it. It is getting a life of its own and taking over yours. So, guess what I am saying is-in your mind it may never be "settled", and it will only delay you moving on. You are only hurting yourself, IMO.


I just wanted to get a bunch of opinions, just making sure my butt is covered thats all. Im not talking to anymore.

I feel much MUCH better today than I did on Tues thats forsure.


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

You're doing ok. You were let go in a most unreasonable way and that was a shock, it hurts, its demoralizing. 

Now you have talked to lawyers, put forward your counteroffer. When it is all settled then put it behind you.

In the mean time don't publicly be offensive about anyone concerned, you never know what might come back to bite you.


----------



## Hoofpic

ShirtHotTeez said:


> *You're doing ok. You were let go in a most unreasonable way and that was a shock*, it hurts, its demoralizing.
> 
> Now you have talked to lawyers, put forward your counteroffer. When it is all settled then put it behind you.
> 
> In the mean time don't publicly be offensive about anyone concerned, you never know what might come back to bite you.


Thank you, I appreciate it.

Since the new girl was hired 3 weeks ago, there was no excuse to not give me at least some notice. 

And no reason what so ever for me attending last weeks "team building" meeting. I know i had to attend because to make my former boss look good. :icon_rolleyes:

All I know is, if I was in his shoes, I would have notified the current worker that their term will be ending on so and so date so they can get prepared to move on.

And I definitely wouldnt make them attend a "team building" meeting if he was going to be let go less than a week later. 

But again thats just me.


----------



## franknbeans

…and if they had notified you, you would actually be out $$ as they only had to give you 1 week…….so perhaps he did you a favor.

You never know how you would handle something until put in that position. I would love to hear his side of the story. You have no idea what HIS boss was telling him to do, etc…..


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## Speed Racer

Employers are not required to give you notice, and it's generally a bad idea because the majority of people will be angry and spiteful, and may try to sabotage the company during their time left.

As far as not letting you work the rest of the day, standing there while you clean out your desk, and walking you out are all par for the course. 

It's also completely regular for it to be business as usual while decisions are being made. Allowing you to miss meetings and team building exercises would have been a red flag, and a major headache when you started demanding answers.

You were not picked out to be persecuted. Everything your previous supervisor did was legal, usual, and by the book. You were treated like any other employee at any other company who has been let go.


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## Golden Horse

franknbeans said:


> You have talked to 5 lawyers?? Wow. THis will go one as long as you let it. It is getting a life of its own and taking over yours. So, guess what I am saying is-in your mind it may never be "settled", and it will only delay you moving on. You are only hurting yourself, IMO.


 Not really a shock that he has spoken to 5 lawyers, it's the same mindset as asking so many opinions of every single minute thing about horse care. This is how HP operates, not a criticism just an observation. It just makes me muse on how effective he is as an employee, does not want to interact with the workforce, but requires lots of input on what is correct, it is an interesting conundrum. 

As someone else pointed out, remember we only have one side of this, and we all know that in life there are three accounts of any situation, yours, mine and the truth. The most important thing is learn from what has happened, think about what you need to do in a new place to fit in, and become the person that is a good company person. So if and when re organization happens again, you are in the keeping catagory.


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## Hoofpic

franknbeans said:


> …and if they had notified you, you would actually be out $$ as they only had to give you 1 week…….so perhaps he did you a favor.
> 
> You never know how you would handle something until put in that position. I would love to hear his side of the story. You have no idea what HIS boss was telling him to do, etc…..


Well he could have at least given me one weeks notice then. 

His boss has no say since my former boss is employed with the company as a self employed contracter. He hires and fires and makes all decisions for his department on his own.


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## anndankev

Believe me when I say an Independent Contractor does have to stay within the parameters of what his client wants, if is he is to remain an Independent Contractor for them.

To others reading this, I gave most of my opinions/advice via PM. A very primary point being that this paper IS a negotiable instrument.


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## Hoofpic

Thanks for all the input everyone, will reply tonight. Just wanted to mention that I probably wont be able to get back on here til late tonight as Im going to be heading out to do a 10 hour cash job today. Outside, shovelling, not gonna be fun cause its -22 but the pay is decent (more than what I made at my former job) and its cash at the end of the night. Obviously not my ideal long term solution but I will not turn down quick cash jobs.


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## Hoofpic

About to work but just wanted to post here with an update real quick.

Ref letter, former boss said he would be more than happy to give me but declined on anything higher than the original severance.


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## natisha

jenkat86 said:


> I'll give you a little personal experience from working in the horse world, OP. In 2010 I got laid off from my job. I was able to receive unemployment benefits but it wasn't going to be enough to cover board for my mare and my bills. I worked out an agreement with my BO and began leading trail rides and doing things around the barn like mucking and feeding. I worked for board and whatever tips I made leading trail rides. She came to me shortly after and offered me a full time paid position doing what I was already doing, but also excising horses. I was actively looking for a job, and decided to tell her yes. I figured it would be better than my current situation while trying to find a "real job." Well...hindsight is 20/20. Because I took that position with her and the barn, I was then employed so I quit receiving unemployment. I was at the barn every single day from 5am to 9pm at night. I fed in the morning, turned horses out, did 8 hours of trail rides with no breaks, mucked stalls, worked 2-3 different horses, brought in horses, fed horses again, collected hay from the loft (in a separate barn) and stacked a wagon by myself, cleaned up the barn and then did one last check BEFORE I could even work with my mare which was usually between 930-10pm. I did all that...and still couldn't cover all my bills, which were not many at that time. That gig lasted 5 months, until I found a new job. And I will tell you, I aged 10 years in those 5 months. Me, my savings account and my credit score all took a hit during that time! I was exhausted every. single. day. I never got to spend time with my mare. My hobby became my job, and a hard one at that...and I hated it!
> 
> If you want a barn job as something to fill a gap between careers, I see nothing wrong with it. It will give you tons valuable experience in regards to your own horse, but I don't think it's a good idea as a long term solution. I think with your education and skills you can find a career that will support your hobby without wearing you down. I'm in no way telling you, "NO! Don't do this!" Because I think you are going to do whatever you want to do...I just want to fill you in on my personal experience.


Dang, you're a hard worker! I'd hire you & pay cash.


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## jenkat86

natisha said:


> Dang, you're a hard worker! I'd hire you & pay cash.


Thanks...but I'm a little burned out :wink: My current job, where I sit behind a desk all day is much more appealing at this point in my life...taxes and all!


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## EponaLynn

Hoofpic said:


> About to work but just wanted to post here with an update real quick.
> 
> Ref letter, former boss said he would be more than happy to give me but declined on anything higher than the original severance.


In the long run a reference letter could be worth more than a couple of weeks pay if it helps get you another job. Not having one could very well be a sticking point.

Maybe you could ask you boss to put that your position changed and they wanted a licensed realtor (that might be very helpful for you).


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## Saddlebag

In most of Canada, if paid every two weeks, then that is the amount of severance and any monies set aside for holidays.


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## EponaLynn

anndankev said:


> Believe me when I say an Independent Contractor does have to stay within the parameters of what his client wants, if is he is to remain an Independent Contractor for them.
> 
> To others reading this, I gave most of my opinions/advice via PM. A very primary point being that this paper IS a negotiable instrument.


Agreed, and if his employer happens to be a realtor in Canada, not saying he is, just a guess, there is a lot of room for Independent Contractors to do much of what they want, providing it's legal. 

This is because the broker makes SO much money off their realtors (especially the ones who have the bucks to hire their own staff) that they will pretty much beg them to stay (also, they very rarely have anything to do with what their contractors are doing with their people). I know this because I was a realtor for 18 years at one of the top Re/max offices in N. America. It's all about being the best office, having the biggest market share etc. while staying out of trouble with the governing body.


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## Saddlebag

Check your state laws regarding notice and severance. The company has to abide by that. They can be more generous but not offer anything less. BTW, you violated the use of a company computer when it contains personal information.


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## Hoofpic

So i replied back accepting the $3500 severance (though im not happy, feel ripped off). And hes doing up a ref letter as well. I asked him to state on it that my position has changed and expanded into new areas. Jist waiting to hear back from him on this.

So now im very much looking forward to reading this ref letter. Maybe itll be really good and put a smile on my face? This could be the key piece moving forward.

Is ref letters competant enough for employers? Dont employers want to call references?

I go in this Monday at 11am for my final visit with my former boss. Even though ive lost respect for him as a person, Im going to be an utter most professional, wish my former boss all the best, thank him for the oppurtunity and shake his hand.


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## ShirtHotTeez

Hoofpic said:


> I go in this Monday at 11am for my final visit with my former boss. Even though ive lost respect for him as a person, Im going to be an utter most professional, wish my former boss all the best, thank him for the oppurtunity and shake his hand.


Sounds good. Just remember, he may push your buttons, intentionally or not. Keep it together and be utterly polite, you don't have to be happy. By all means ask any questions, tell of your shock, disappointment, lack of discussion so you might endevour to fulfil their requirements etc but CURB the emotion. It may not be easy, but it will be easier for you going forward to keep your composure now.


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## Hoofpic

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Sounds good. Just remember, he may push your buttons, intentionally or not. Keep it together and be utterly polite, you don't have to be happy. By all means ask any questions, tell of your shock, disappointment, lack of discussion so you might endevour to fulfil their requirements etc but CURB the emotion. It may not be easy, but it will be easier for you going forward to keep your composure now.


Im going to go in and be how i normally am. Im going to be a professional about it but i wont be chatty. Ill ask him hows it going but thats about it. I will go in with a purpose and that is go do the deed and leave. Not going to talk about anything about me because its none of his business.

Remember ive moved on and when i walk in he is going to pick up on it. Walk in with confidence, be professional, brief, only say what i need to say, wish him the best, thank him for everything, shake his hand and leave.

I will be sure to be the first one to stick my hand out first to shake hands. I think that will make me look good will it not?

Having the weekend break will really help me get rid of the emotion left in me.


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## Rainaisabelle

Not going to lie here, I don't think you've moved on at all..


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## HombresArablegacy

Let it be, let it be~~~~~~ The Beatles 1970

https://youtu.be/ybb6HPDENnE
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> In the long run a reference letter could be worth more than a couple of weeks pay if it helps get you another job. Not having one could very well be a sticking point.



Those are my thoughts. Right now I just need to look out for myself and whats best.


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## Hoofpic

Rainaisabelle said:


> Not going to lie here, I don't think you've moved on at all..


Youre right, I havent because its still pretty raw, but the shock has really come down since Tues. Im not afraid to admit that im still hurting a bit inside but Im much MUCH better than Tues. I think having the weekend will really help. Come Monday it will be a fresh week for me and even though this has crushed my Christmas spirit, I will try my best to still have a good holiday season. I plan on going to a couple random meetups over the holidays (with people ive never met) to hopefully get out and meet some new people, take my mind off things, have some laughs, have some fun. Just do something different, be around people, learn about their personalities, work on my social skills. 

I have a feeling once I do the final deed on Monday that it will give me closure. Im very much hoping so.

Come Monday when I go in, trust me, I will not show any emotion. Im very good in concealing.

I will go in, grab my record of employment and my adjusted final cheque and my severance and hand them the signed papers. As soon as I get the papers, I put my hand out right away to shake, say thanks, (after some thinking Im not going to wish him all the best...why bother? the less I say the better). 

"Thanks for everything....wish you all the best....merry christmas and happy new year" Thats just too much gushy gushy stuff. Cut the crap and just say thanks for everything, keep it to business only.

Then once I shake his hand and say thanks for everything, I will say that i gotta run and I will take off right away. The last thing I need is to be sticking around for even 1 minute later and talking. I need to get the hell out of there as soon as I stick my hand out to shake his hand and thank him. It shows Im only there for business and nothing more.


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## Hoofpic

I will say, the #1 thing that I am very much looking forward to is reading that reference letter when I receive it. Who knows, maybe it will surprise me. Maybe my former boss will have some good things to say about me in it. Maybe it will make me feel not so harshly towards him as a person.

But it also could be a very generic letter with very vague dialogue. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but my bets are on the latter.

I wont know what ill be getting! I cross my fingers it will be something I will want to present to future employers.


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## anndankev

Actually, I hope the Letter of Recommendation/Reference does not mention any reason for your leaving the company at all. It does not have to. It only needs to refer to your work while you were there.


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## franknbeans

Hoofpic said:


> I will say, the #1 thing that I am very much looking forward to is reading that reference letter when I receive it. Who knows, maybe it will surprise me. Maybe my former boss will have some good things to say about me in it. Maybe it will make me feel not so harshly towards him as a person.
> 
> But it also could be a very generic letter with very vague dialogue. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but my bets are on the latter.
> 
> I wont know what ill be getting! I cross my fingers it will be something I will want to present to future employers.


Don't get your hopes up. They are typically pretty generic, especially with your short tenure there.


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## Golden Horse

franknbeans said:


> Don't get your hopes up. They are typically pretty generic, especially with your short tenure there.


I understand, I think, that there is an HR department? If so, in the UK I know, HR produced the reference letters, because it is a minefield, what you are and aren't allowed to say is pretty strict. You also have to know how to 'read' what is said.... I am with Frank, I would be expecting very short, very generic.


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## Saddlebag

No company can say anything that will make it more difficult for you to obtain employment elsewhere.


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## Hoofpic

anndankev said:


> Actually, I hope the Letter of Recommendation/Reference does not mention any reason for your leaving the company at all. It does not have to. It only needs to refer to your work while you were there.


I just dont want him to talk about any weakness I have in it or give the impression to the person reading that I wasn't up to snuff for the job.

Aren't ref letters pretty incompentant compared to real references?

Cause what if future employers ask me to call my former boss? Obviously im not going to use him as a reference. This is the very first time Ive been given a ref letter so not sure if it is as effective as a real reference.

Anyways, I just filed for EI!!!! Once I get my record of employment on Monday I will send that in as well. So happy you can NOW do this all online and no need to go to the offices and pull a ticket number and wait like as if you ar e at a medical clinic.


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## Golden Horse

Hoofpic said:


> Aren't ref letters pretty incompentant compared to real references?
> 
> Cause what if future employers ask me to call my former boss? Obviously im not going to use him as a reference. This is the very first time Ive been given a ref letter so not sure if it is as effective as a real reference.
> 
> .


How are you seeing a letter of reference as different from a 'real reference'

The letter you get to read and see, if a future employer talks to your old company then you have no clue what is said.


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## DraftyAiresMum

As an employer, I'd much rather have a reference letter than have to call someone and take time out of both my and their days.

Reference letters are, by necessity, vague and generic. If he's giving you a reference letter, he's not going to trash talk you in it. It will basically be "Yes, he worked here and yes, he's rehireable." As a potential employer, that's really all I want to see. 

I called on a reference once when I first became manager and the answer I got was "All my employees who are rehireable and who were good employees get a letter of reference when they leave. If the person in question doesn't have a reference letter, that should tell you everything you need to know."


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## Hoofpic

Golden Horse said:


> How are you seeing a letter of reference as different from a 'real reference'
> 
> The letter you get to read and see, if a future employer talks to your old company then you have no clue what is said.


Because when employers call references, theyre able to ask them their specific questions. The answers to their questions may or may not be answered in the letter.

If all the letter is going to say is "___" worked here from so date to so date and his title was ___. His duties were ___. How does this help the future employer find out stuff like your work ethic and other stuff?


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## DraftyAiresMum

Hoofpic said:


> Because when employers call references, theyre able to ask them their specific questions. The answers to their questions may or may not be answered in the letter.
> 
> If all the letter is going to say is "___" worked here from so date to so date and his title was ___. His duties were ___. How does this help the future employer find out stuff like your work ethic and other stuff?


A past employer can't divulge that information when called, either. We're allowed to say "Yes, this person worked here. Yes/No, they are/aren't rehireable." That's it. We're not allowed to discuss job performance, personal interactions. NOTHING.


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## boots

Hoofpic said:


> Because when employers call references, theyre able to ask them their specific questions. The answers to their questions may or may not be answered in the letter.
> 
> If all the letter is going to say is "___" worked here from so date to so date and his title was ___. His duties were ___. How does this help the future employer find out stuff like your work ethic and other stuff?


It doesn't. Prospective employers are having to relay more on what they get from interview and read more into work history and "Reason you left" sections on applications (if the app has that).

More and more companies are only giving dates of employment and whether a former employee is eligible for re-hire when called for references due to the possibility of being sued by the former employee if they give a bad reference.


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## Hoofpic

DraftyAiresMum said:


> As an employer, I'd much rather have a reference letter than have to call someone and take time out of both my and their days.
> 
> Reference letters are, by necessity, vague and generic. If he's giving you a reference letter, he's not going to trash talk you in it. It will basically be "Yes, he worked here and yes, he's rehireable." As a potential employer, that's really all I want to see.
> 
> I called on a reference once when I first became manager and the answer I got was "All my employees who are rehireable and who were good employees get a letter of reference when they leave. If the person in question doesn't have a reference letter, that should tell you everything you need to know."


Oh ok interesting. But I know that there are some employers who really heavily on references. I know my former boss was. When I got this job, it was pretty much when they called my 3 refs that sealed the job for me and made them choose me over the other guy (and it came right down to the wire). My former boss said it was my attitude that got me the job and how I walked into my interview with me visibly showing how much I wanted the position. When I started this job, I loved it but as time went on my heart just wasnt there anymore. It slowly drifted away even well before getting my mare.


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## Hoofpic

DraftyAiresMum said:


> A past employer can't divulge that information when called, either. We're allowed to say "Yes, this person worked here. Yes/No, they are/aren't rehireable." That's it. We're not allowed to discuss job performance, personal interactions. NOTHING.


Oh, maybe regulations are different in the U.S?



boots said:


> It doesn't. Prospective employers are having to relay more on what they get from interview and read more into work history and "Reason you left" sections on applications (if the app has that).
> 
> More and more companies are only giving dates of employment and whether a former employee is eligible for re-hire when called for references due to the possibility of being sued by the former employee if they give a bad reference.


Oh I see. DIdnt know this and I guess this could explain why some employers dont even bother with references much.


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## Whinnie

Hoofpic said:


> Because when employers call references, theyre able to ask them their specific questions. The answers to their questions may or may not be answered in the letter.
> 
> If all the letter is going to say is "___" worked here from so date to so date and his title was ___. His duties were ___. How does this help the future employer find out stuff like your work ethic and other stuff?


 Several people here who are employers have explained reference letters to you. Given the past few months of your postings regarding how unhappy you were at work and how you did not enjoy working there or working with the people there, a general reference letter is what you should be happy with. You probably do not want your former employer to go into detail.

Right now you should be concentrating on finding a new, better job. It also wouldn't hurt to speak to a professional counselor or therapist about your being let go and get some help dealing with it. You may get some good help on how to do better at your next job.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I only check references to make sure the potential employee does indeed have the experience they claim to have. I can ask for more than that, but legally, the other company can't tell me more than that.


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## Hoofpic

Whinnie said:


> Several people here who are employers have explained reference letters to you. Given the past few months of your postings regarding how unhappy you were at work and how you did not enjoy working there or working with the people there, a general reference letter is what you should be happy with. You probably do not want your former employer to go into detail.
> 
> Right now you should be concentrating on finding a new, better job. It also wouldn't hurt to speak to a professional counselor or therapist about your being let go and get some help dealing with it. You may get some good help on how to do better at your next job.


Thank you.

I am happy to be receiving a ref letter.

I am confident in myself in moving on. I just need to keep myself busy to not have my mind vulnerable in thinking about unwanted things. As each day as gone on I feel better. Monday will no doubtedly give me closure. 

I made myself a goal last night. From now on, no more thinking about anything related to the company what so ever. I deleted my work facebook account, all contacts that I had from other staff members, my former boss etc from my phone and email and texts. Even deleted all the bookmarks in relation to work.

Getting out during the christmas season and meeting others at random get togethers will most definitely help as well. As crazy as this sounds Im going to be spending Christmas day dinner with a bunch of random strangers.


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## Hoofpic

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I only check references to make sure the potential employee does indeed have the experience they claim to have. I can ask for more than that, but legally, the other company can't tell me more than that.


Oh I see. Thanks


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## Whinnie

Hoofpic said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I am happy to be receiving a ref letter.
> 
> I am confident in myself in moving on. I just need to keep myself busy to not have my mind vulnerable in thinking about unwanted things. As each day as gone on I feel better. Monday will no doubtedly give me closure.
> 
> I made myself a goal last night. From now on, no more thinking about anything related to the company what so ever. I deleted my work facebook account, all contacts that I had from other staff members, my former boss etc from my phone and email and texts. Even deleted all the bookmarks in relation to work.
> 
> Getting out during the christmas season and meeting others at random get togethers will most definitely help as well. As crazy as this sounds Im going to be spending Christmas day dinner with a bunch of random strangers.


 Interesting you would prefer to spend Christmas Day with strangers than your family. I remember your post saying you would stop by your parents house but not stay. Support of family is very important.


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## Golden Horse

Hoofpic said:


> Oh ok interesting. But I know that there are some employers who really heavily on references. I know my former boss was. When I got this job, it was pretty much when they called my 3 refs that sealed the job for me and made them choose me over the other guy (and it came right down to the wire). My former boss said it was my attitude that got me the job and how I walked into my interview with me visibly showing how much I wanted the position. When I started this job, I loved it but as time went on my heart just wasnt there anymore. It slowly drifted away even well before getting my mare.


And that just proves how little value some put in references. Your employer thought he had hired the best man for the job, but what he ended up with was someone who didn't care for the company or the job, who posted all over public media how they did not care for their job, or their work mates. An employee who admits his shortcomings in public, but is still shocked when he gets fired!

I am now shocked that this introvert who could not bring himself to socialize with his workmates, to try and make his work place better, now says he is sharing Christmas with strangers. 

Going forward you need to think long and hard about work place relationships, and attitudes to work, otherwise how do you afford to keep your mare?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rainaisabelle

This says a lot..


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## Hoofpic

Whinnie said:


> Interesting you would prefer to spend Christmas Day with strangers than your family. I remember your post saying you would stop by your parents house but not stay. Support of family is very important.


When I go to my parents on Christmas day for dinner, I always leave early before my relatives show up because I dont care for them. I see them maybe once a year and we arent part of each others lives. 

My mom is ok with it, she understands. 

My family doesnt know about what happened yet. Im waiting for a good time to tell them. My mom is going to be devastated and stressed out. I dont want to bring this upon her.


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## Hoofpic

Golden Horse said:


> And that just proves how little value some put in references. Your employer thought he had hired the best man for the job, but what he ended up with was someone who didn't care for the company or the job, who posted all over public media how they did not care for their job, or their work mates. An employee who admits his shortcomings in public, but is still shocked when he gets fired!
> 
> I am now shocked that this introvert who could not bring himself to socialize with his workmates, to try and make his work place better, now says he is sharing Christmas with strangers.
> 
> Going forward you need to think long and hard about work place relationships, and attitudes to work, otherwise how do you afford to keep your mare?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


At the time when I was hired, I had a different attitude. I know you dont believe me, but Im just saying.

As time went on, factors throughout the job played a role in making me enjoy the job less and less and care for the company less and less. At first I was very social with others, but as time went on, my attitude in the workplace changed and when I dont enjoy my job nearly as much, I tend to become deattached from the workplace and company. 

You can bet the next journey I take on, workplace relationships and attitude will be the top priority for me to focus on. If I find an environment where I work with others and it is very open to team building, then it would benefit me. Im not making excuses but my job at the company was for the most part a solo role. I worked alone.

PS - I got let go, not fired.


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## DraftyAiresMum

How is it that employees seem to think that their employers are dumb, deaf, and blind? 

It doesn't matter if the change in attitude was immediate or was gradual. It still happened...and I can guarantee you that your boss was fully aware of it. And obviously he didn't like what he saw, because you no longer work there. 

No position is a "solo role." Your work (and attitude) affects other people's work, whether directly or indirectly.

I have one employee who has what some would consider a "solo role." Her job is to serve breakfast (make sure the breakfast counter is stocked) and clean up the lobby and breakfast area. However, if her attitude is off that day or if she doesn't keep up with keeping breakfast stocked, it ends up affecting everyone else. Why? Because then front desk or housekeeping has to pick up her slack, and we have to deal with the complaints about her lacking attitude.

No man is an island, whether in his personal life or professional life. The sooner you drop that attitude, the better off you'll be.


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## gypsygirl

Is there a difference between getting let go and fired ? I don't think your boss stated you were laid off ?? Idk if it's just different terminology between countries ?


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## Speed Racer

'Let go' and 'fired' are synonymous. Had they wanted to retain your services at a later date, you would have been laid off.

There are places that go through tough financial times, but leave a door open for employees they want back when they're in a position to do so. That wasn't your situation. You're no longer a good fit, so were let go.

Was this your first job? Because honestly, you're making it out to be far more complicated than it is, and giving yourself more importance than the situation warrants.

We are only the stars of our own lives. In everyone else's we're just bit players, especially when it involves employment.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but the sooner you move on from this and find gainful employment, the better off you'll be.


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## DraftyAiresMum

gypsygirl said:


> Is there a difference between getting let go and fired ? I don't think your boss stated you were laid off ?? Idk if it's just different terminology between countries ?


Generally speaking, "fired" denotes that you were in violation of policy and therefore your employment was terminated. "Let go" is a softer way to put it and generally means that you were terminated because you weren't a good fit for the company, your position was downsized, or something of that nature. At least, that's how I've always heard it used.


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## Golden Horse

I wondered if it was my British background that was leading me to think they we're interchangeable, thw words 'letting you go' is the softer version...but basically same thing


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## DraftyAiresMum

Golden Horse said:


> I wondered if it was my British background that was leading me to think they we're interchangeable, thw words 'letting you go' is the softer version...but basically same thing


It is the same thing when you get down to it. Both basically say that you no longer work for the company. Some managers will use "letting you go" to kind of soften the blow, so to speak, if they want it to be an amicable parting. In this instance, I'd be willing to bet that they used "letting you go" to avoid any drama. :icon_rolleyes:


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## Golden Horse

DraftyAiresMum said:


> It is the same thing when you get down to it. Both basically say that you no longer work for the company. Some managers will use "letting you go" to kind of soften the blow, so to speak, if they want it to be an amicable parting. In this instance, I'd be willing to bet that they used "letting you go" to avoid any drama. :icon_rolleyes:


I guess for me a big part of it is being 'let go' on the spot....I have sacked people for gross misconduct, but had to suspend them first, with a date for a hearing. Get them back in for the hearing and if the misconduct was upheld they would be dismissed at that stage.

People being laid off because of performance issues, usually got a weeks notice, but MAY, may have just been paid their notice period and asked not to come back.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I have only ever heard of employers giving advanced notice in the case of lay offs. If an employer gives advanced notice of termination, whether for violation of policy or "letting you go" if you're not a good fit, performance tends to fall off drastically, the employee brings moral down, and/or they just end up walking out and you're left in a lurch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anndankev

I worked for 2/3rds of my bookkeeping history alone.

The first third was pleasant, I was young, there were other employees, my desk was in an area where others also worked.

The second third, I was alone in the back office of a ground floor shop in a 3 story building. It was ok.

The last third was split in two locations (business moved) first was a dark dingy actual basement where space was made for the office and desks in the owner's home. It was depressing.

Then they moved to a glorious property with plenty of room upstairs. They still put the office in the basement, it was a beautiful finished, roomy basement. 

My desk was positioned facing the farthest corner, butted up in the corner, the only daylight came in from one of those ground floor basement windows. The sunbeam hit me right in the eye, I had to put a binder notebook in the window to block it from blinding me.

It was actually pretty devastating on my emotional being (I also went home to an abusive marriage). 

I wanted to put two signs up in the corner that I could see above my desk.

One to say ... "DEATH" .... and the other ..... "TAXES"


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## Whinnie

Hoofpic said:


> When I go to my parents on Christmas day for dinner, I always leave early before my relatives show up because I dont care for them. I see them maybe once a year and we arent part of each others lives.
> 
> My mom is ok with it, she understands.
> 
> My family doesnt know about what happened yet. Im waiting for a good time to tell them. My mom is going to be devastated and stressed out. I dont want to bring this upon her.


 It has been clear that you don't like your co-workers, you don't like people at the barn and you don't like your relatives. I see a pattern. The only people you seem to be able to interact with at all are on-line and I'm pretty sure there are a lot of us you don't like either.

I sure hope you see that you have some responsibility for having been "let go" and try to speak to a professional to sort out what appears to be self destructive behavior.


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## anndankev

^^^^ Hoofpic has been acknowledging his part of the responsibility all along.

In fact, he took it all on himself right from the beginning, and many have tried to be uplifting and supportive.

Also many horsemen and women, as well as animal lovers in general, have some difficulty in socially interacting with human beings.


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## Hoofpic

Whinnie said:


> It has been clear that you don't like your co-workers, you don't like people at the barn and you don't like your relatives. I see a pattern. The only people you seem to be able to interact with at all are on-line and I'm pretty sure there are a lot of us you don't like either.
> 
> I sure hope you see that you have some responsibility for having been "let go" and try to speak to a professional to sort out what appears to be self destructive behavior.


Please never put words in my mouth. I did not say that I do not like people at my barn. There are quite a few that I will chat with each time we bump into each other. Why? Cause we have something in common, we have a connection, we share same interests in horses.

Aside from that one girl at work that I did not like (she hated me as well), I didnt hate my coworkers, I just didnt go out of my way to socialize with them unless I had to. There were still a handful of people in the company that I formed a friendship with, they just wernt the in house staff thats all. I got along with these handful of people because again, we had something in common, something to relate to.

I did not have anything in common with anyone in the internal staff, not even my own boss.

All my siblings dont like any of our relatives so me not liking them is not out of the norm. We all have a good reason why we dont like them.


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## Yogiwick

Introvert does NOT mean anti-social.

I am an introvert. I work closely with my one co-worker boss at my full time job. We care for 7 horses all boarders.

There is a holiday party this weekend. While I like all 8 of those people individually and can be chatty with them all being crammed in a small room for several hours sounds miserable and I will need to force myself to be sociable. However I am going. I did not ask if it was required, we do not have regular get togethers and it is clear even if not "required" that this is something I should be attending. So I will go and be social and friendly and hopefully have a good time, and if I don't I will still leave with people being "oh I'm glad Yogiwick came!" and that is all that matters.

It's the right thing to do so I am doing it. There doesn't need to be a question or an excuse. While horses can be time consuming they also don't need to be. Throw them feed and clean the stall and they are fine. Does it really need to take up all your spare time? No. It's priorities.

Hoofpic seems to accept the responsibility but is also going on with assumptions and blame at the boss and at self while making excuses. It is all very high drama! I have been in those shoes, being let go from a big corporation. I was a good employee but there were some strict policy changes and I had been losing interest anyways. I didn't meet the policy changes (being more than 3 minutes late 3 times in 6 months when I lived 50 miles away) and didn't put in 100% effort to meet them. While it wasn't a surprise to me it was still a big shock the way they handled it. The world didn't end. In retrospect I was young and didn't realize I should have just quit before that point. No reason to stay on in a job I was unhappy with. At the end of the day it was a black and white policy with no leniency so I had full understanding but again I understand the shock. But you only need to take it as far as you need to take it.. FWIW that job was miserable too. 50 miles with minimum wage at a job that wasn't the right fit. I enjoyed it and learned a lot and am also glad I don't work there anymore! It wasn't like it was the best job ever or payed well.


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## Hoofpic

Yogiwick said:


> Introvert does NOT mean anti-social.


THANK YOU! 

I can be very social if Im in the right situation.

I'm very social at the barn. Why? Because we have share the same passion for horses. I say hi, bye to people, I ask how they are doing, they ask how my riding is coming along, what im working on and I do the same as well. 


I was very social at our adult Christmas party in November. Why? Cause I was around people who I had something in common with. We had a good time, we enjoyed each others company.



> Hoofpic seems to accept the responsibility but is also going on with assumptions and blame at the boss and at self while making excuses. It is all very high drama!


I am taking full responsibility and being accountable. If Im coming across as making excuses, then I apologize its 100% unintentional. Sorry.


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## Whinnie

Yogiwick, I am also a social (can be sociable) introvert.


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## Yogiwick

I would recommend cutting your losses and finding a job that is more suitable for you and moving on. In a few years I think you will look back and think "so not worth it!".

It sounds like maybe the bigger picture issue is the lack of personal application to something that you don't want to do anymore. I can definitely relate to that, but as I said in my previous post I have learned there is no point in sticking around at a job you hate. (Unless you are completely dead broke and simply cannot find any sort of alternative work of course, and even then, go home in the evening and job search!)

It's just working on yourself, at the same time as finding something that will work for you. I am the assistant manager at the small upper class boarding facility I described currently and it is a great job for me. After some "non animal" jobs I realized that that is truly what I want to do even if it's more work, and that I wasn't satisfied just having it as a hobby. Long term I am looking at going to vet school to find a job I enjoy where I can do what I want and also allows me not only to afford my hobbies (animals) but will also assist me in my hobbies.

A lot of self learning going on


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## elle1959

Whinnie said:


> Yogiwick, I am also a social (can be sociable) introvert.



This is true for me, as well. I think we have to learn how to manage the world on our terms, when this is the case. Can take some time. At 56, I know I don't quite have it all sorted out yet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Remali

There is absolutely _nothing_ wrong with not liking your co-workers (I've worked with some really nasty people, and also worked with some wonderful people), or not liking some of your relatives. And nothing wrong with being introverted, and not really wanting to be around people. I'm not introverted (just the opposite, actually), but I have a couple friends who are fairly introverted. 

We are all different, I don't think people need to seek out professional help if they simply do not care to be around people a lot... that was a bit harsh of you Whinnie.... If there was a dislike button....


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## Yogiwick

I actually agree with Whinnie, maybe I just see where she was going differently?

I see a tendency towards more "antisocial" than "introverted" behavior among other things.

However, short of pointing it out, there's really nothing more we can do nor is it any of our business to do more. We are random people and don't actually know Hoofpic. I know I for one probably come across differently via world wide web than in person.

As I said, my different jobs have taught me a LOT about _myself _ (among other things) in an odd way and have shown me "the right direction" so to speak and I hope that Hoofpic can see this for the learning opportunity that it is.


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## ShirtHotTeez

Whinnie said:


> It has been clear that you don't like your co-workers, you don't like people at the barn and you don't like your relatives. I see a pattern. The only people you seem to be able to interact with at all are on-line and I'm pretty sure there are a lot of us you don't like either.
> 
> I sure hope you see that you have some responsibility for having been "let go" and try to speak to a professional to sort out what appears to be self destructive behavior.


I second this hoofpic. You are shunning people more as you go on and it is not healthy. 

Truely, get some help with this. Doesn't mean you have to have people around you 24/7. But make an effort to engage with others fully for short spells throughout the day. A bit of a chat with workmates, barn-mates, group interaction, family. 

You don't have to put on an act, just be yourself and develop a little bit of interest in others. Smile a bit, make an effort. You might find you are enjoying yourself! After a while you can excuse yourself and everyone moves on with their day and they are not thinking about you specifically mostly, but you are a pleasing part of the memories of the day. 

You don't have to like everyone, even your family. Think of it in terms of: everyone has their own issues to deal with in life, it doesn't matter if your road is harder than theirs, each has to deal with their own. You never know when one kind word, approval, funny joke or just a smile, is going to make somebody's day just that much easier. Don't underestimate this.

Practice with your family. Perhaps you don't see that your own attitude to them makes their attitude to you unappealing which makes you shun them more.....vicious circle. Experiment with them! Be really nice, and welcoming. Stay a while and share the meal. If you're enjoying it, or finding it tolerable thats great. If not, excuse yourself afterwards and leave. At very least, you just made your mom really happy. That has to be good doesn't it. Sometimes, its not all about you.

Read this book, its not too long: People Skills by Robert Bolton

Take care of yourself

some quotes to think about



































:gallop:


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## Hoofpic

Yogiwick said:


> I would recommend cutting your losses and finding a job that is more suitable for you and moving on. In a few years I think you will look back and think "so not worth it!".


I agree and I have pushed forward in moving on. It is so not worth thinking back on. The more I can keep myself busy, the better off I am until I find a new adventure.

I have started my job search and if I have to do a "under the table" cash job twice a week to compliment my EI when it finalizes, then so be it.

Obviously my savings and the severance package really helps as well but I want (even if its low) a constant stream of money coming in until I find a new adventure. I think that is the most important thing, not to go into debt and get the bills paid every month. Im hoping that my downtime wont be too long, the economy is not good right now, lots of layoffs in the city, lots on EI.


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## Hoofpic

Remali said:


> There is absolutely _nothing_ wrong with not liking your co-workers (I've worked with some really nasty people, and also worked with some wonderful people), or not liking some of your relatives. And nothing wrong with being introverted, and not really wanting to be around people. I'm not introverted (just the opposite, actually), but I have a couple friends who are fairly introverted.
> 
> We are all different, I don't think people need to seek out professional help if they simply do not care to be around people a lot... that was a bit harsh of you Whinnie.... If there was a dislike button....


Thanks.

Not making excuses for me. 

But I will just point out that it wasnt up until this past August (mid August) that I was even in the same office as the rest of the in house staff because my former boss and I used to work out of an office where it was primarily just use two there. 

So out of the 1 year and 9 month time I was working for this company, I was working in an office (that I shared with my former boss) in an office where the other departments werent under the same roof for 17 ouf those 21 months. It wasnt up until mid August that I worked in the same office as the rest of the in house staff. But 4 months is still 4 months to mingle.


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## Hoofpic

Yogiwick said:


> I actually agree with Whinnie, maybe I just see where she was going differently?
> 
> I see a tendency towards more "antisocial" than "introverted" behavior among other things.
> 
> However, short of pointing it out, there's really nothing more we can do nor is it any of our business to do more. We are random people and don't actually know Hoofpic. I know I for one probably come across differently via world wide web than in person.
> 
> As I said, my different jobs have taught me a LOT about _myself _ (among other things) in an odd way and have shown me "the right direction" so to speak and I hope that Hoofpic can see this for the learning opportunity that it is.


This may be sound wierd, yes I can be antisocial at times but I also can be very social. It depends on the environment, people, etc. Either way, you are right, I need to be more consistent.

I definitely see this as a serious learning oppurtunity. It is a real life changing experience/lesson for me.


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## Yogiwick

I know what you mean and am glad you are getting to the point where you have a good mindset about it. I know it's hard at first! Kudos to you.

There is always SOME job if you need it, even if it's a lousy one. Hopefully you find not only a good long term one soon, but one that is also a better match for you and hopefully can be more of a career you enjoy than a dead end job you hate.


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## sarahfromsc

In regards to reference letters, I personally prefer personal letters or reference; especially coming from co workers, or ex bosses, versus a generic work reference.

I am not anti social, but I don't let all in to my life. Even on this forum, there is very little information about me, my life, my life with horses,etc., and the same holds true in real life. With that said, I can chit chat about a myriad of topics in a polite way, be friendly, and some say outgoing in social situations. 

So, hoofpic, there is nothing wrong with being quiet, as long as you don't totally snub coworkers and you make an effort to be personable.


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## gingerscout

I am antisocial.. I don't like a lot of people, and spend a lot of time alone.. and there are 1-2 people I openly will admit to loathing/ despising. I don't have a lot of friends except my wife/ daughter and horse


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## Hoofpic

Yogiwick said:


> I know what you mean and am glad you are getting to the point where you have a good mindset about it. I know it's hard at first! Kudos to you.
> 
> There is always SOME job if you need it, even if it's a lousy one. Hopefully you find not only a good long term one soon, but one that is also a better match for you and hopefully can be more of a career you enjoy than a dead end job you hate.


Thanks. 

I dont need to LOVE my job but my heart does have to be with it. It was at first at this former job but as time went on my heart faded. I dont know what it was, but it started after the new year and I just wasnt the same person. You know how sometimes you just feel it in your gut? Thats what I felt literally the first day back after the Christmas break. 

There were some things about the job that I really did enjoy but over time I lost interest, I got restless, burnt out, the work became tedious and just wasnt feeling it anymore. I really wish I could explain the change of heart, because I really did once enjoy what I did. It wasnt cause of the horse world becauase my interest started to decline after the new year.

Perhaps me not taking my first vacation day until August (yes went almost 8 months without a single vac day....I would advise against it because 8 months is a long time), burnt me out. I like to try my best in saving my vacation time towards the later part of the year. When I had a week off in August and went back, I felt refreshed but I was quickly burnt out again by a month later.


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## Yogiwick

If you get into horses more you can say goodbye to vacations. An unheard thing in this house lol!

Again, I've been there, this sounds so similar to my story after which I realized it just wasn't a good match for me and since then I have been back in the horse industry.


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## Hoofpic

ShirtHotTeez said:


> I second this hoofpic. You are shunning people more as you go on and it is not healthy.
> 
> Truely, get some help with this. Doesn't mean you have to have people around you 24/7. But make an effort to engage with others fully for short spells throughout the day. A bit of a chat with workmates, barn-mates, group interaction, family.
> 
> You don't have to put on an act, just be yourself and develop a little bit of interest in others. Smile a bit, make an effort. You might find you are enjoying yourself! After a while you can excuse yourself and everyone moves on with their day and they are not thinking about you specifically mostly, but you are a pleasing part of the memories of the day.
> 
> You don't have to like everyone, even your family. Think of it in terms of: everyone has their own issues to deal with in life, it doesn't matter if your road is harder than theirs, each has to deal with their own. You never know when one kind word, approval, funny joke or just a smile, is going to make somebody's day just that much easier. Don't underestimate this.
> 
> Practice with your family. Perhaps you don't see that your own attitude to them makes their attitude to you unappealing which makes you shun them more.....vicious circle. Experiment with them! Be really nice, and welcoming. Stay a while and share the meal. If you're enjoying it, or finding it tolerable thats great. If not, excuse yourself afterwards and leave. At very least, you just made your mom really happy. That has to be good doesn't it. Sometimes, its not all about you.
> 
> Read this book, its not too long: People Skills by Robert Bolton
> 
> Take care of yourself


Thanks. I will check out that book.

I made a goal for myself - short term goal, just a small one to start off with. For the holiday season I will say hi to every person I walk by, no matter where I am. At the barn, gas station, grocery store, everywhere. I will say hi and smile. If I get a good enough vibe off the person, I will even ask how theyre doing.

Also Im going to try my best from now until the end of the year to do one random thing a day for a complete stranger, whether its asking how their day is, or holding the door open for them, I will do something to make that person feel better about themself after interacting with me. If I end up holding the door open for 12 different people, 12 times then so be it. I still helped 12 people out and made them feel better after.

Everytime you interact with someone, I truly do believe its the little things like "have a great day" that can make a difference in raising their spirits or making their day better.

I think going to a couple or a few meetups over the holidays with strangers will really help me work on this.


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## Hoofpic

ShirtHotTeez said:


> I second this hoofpic. You are shunning people more as you go on and it is not healthy.
> 
> Truely, get some help with this. Doesn't mean you have to have people around you 24/7. But make an effort to engage with others fully for short spells throughout the day. A bit of a chat with workmates, barn-mates, group interaction, family.
> 
> You don't have to put on an act, just be yourself and develop a little bit of interest in others. Smile a bit, make an effort. You might find you are enjoying yourself! After a while you can excuse yourself and everyone moves on with their day and they are not thinking about you specifically mostly, but you are a pleasing part of the memories of the day.
> 
> You don't have to like everyone, even your family. Think of it in terms of: everyone has their own issues to deal with in life, it doesn't matter if your road is harder than theirs, each has to deal with their own. You never know when one kind word, approval, funny joke or just a smile, is going to make somebody's day just that much easier. Don't underestimate this.
> 
> Practice with your family. Perhaps you don't see that your own attitude to them makes their attitude to you unappealing which makes you shun them more.....vicious circle. Experiment with them! Be really nice, and welcoming. Stay a while and share the meal. If you're enjoying it, or finding it tolerable thats great. If not, excuse yourself afterwards and leave. At very least, you just made your mom really happy. That has to be good doesn't it. Sometimes, its not all about you.
> 
> Read this book, its not too long: People Skills by Robert Bolton
> 
> Take care of yourself
> 
> some quotes to think about
> 
> View attachment 731633
> View attachment 731641
> View attachment 731609
> 
> 
> View attachment 731617
> View attachment 731625
> 
> 
> :gallop:


I saved all 5 of those quotes as well


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## ShirtHotTeez

Hoofpic said:


> Thanks. I will check out that book.
> 
> I made a goal for myself - short term goal, just a small one to start off with. For the holiday season I will say hi to every person I walk by, no matter where I am. At the barn, gas station, grocery store, everywhere. I will say hi and smile. If I get a good enough vibe off the person, I will even ask how theyre doing.
> 
> Also Im going to try my best from now until the end of the year to do one random thing a day for a complete stranger, whether its asking how their day is, or holding the door open for them, I will do something to make that person feel better about themself after interacting with me. If I end up holding the door open for 12 different people, 12 times then so be it. I still helped 12 people out and made them feel better after.
> 
> Everytime you interact with someone, I truly do believe its the little things like "have a great day" that can make a difference in raising their spirits or making their day better.
> 
> I think going to a couple or a few meetups over the holidays with strangers will really help me work on this.


:thumbsup:

don't rule out your family just because you know them. you don't know all the challenges they face.

ya know

I would go into a local post office and one of the women there was a real grump. She would be abrupt talking to you and get annoyed if you weren't organised. Not just me, I would watch as she served others. I was in there one day, a while back now, and the queue was out the door. The woman was serving in the usual manner, but I had been reading some "be a better person" motivational stuff. The waiting was long enough that by the time it was my turn I decided to try a different tack. I smiled and compliment her on how quickly she dealt with all these people and how she must be indispensable to the post office (I forget exactly). She sat up taller in her chair, she smiled and chatted and was particularly helpful. I walked out of there thinking "well that worked"! It was just one little moment in the day and you could see she felt better, and I felt better for making her feel better.


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## Hoofpic

sarahfromsc said:


> So, hoofpic, there is nothing wrong with being quiet, as long as you don't totally snub coworkers and you make an effort to be personable.


True. I need to step it up. Even though my former boss is a complete extrovert and him and I cant get any further apart in terms of how different we are, I can still learn a lot from him. He will always say hi to anyone he sees and ask how they are.


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## Hoofpic

ShirtHotTeez said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> don't rule out your family just because you know them. you don't know all the challenges they face.
> 
> ya know
> 
> I would go into a local post office and one of the women there was a real grump. She would be abrupt talking to you and get annoyed if you weren't organised. Not just me, I would watch as she served others. I was in there one day, a while back now, and the queue was out the door. The woman was serving in the usual manner, but I had been reading some "be a better person" motivational stuff. The waiting was long enough that by the time it was my turn I decided to try a different tack. I smiled and compliment her on how quickly she dealt with all these people and how she must be indispensable to the post office (I forget exactly). She sat up taller in her chair, she smiled and chatted and was particularly helpful. I walked out of there thinking "well that worked"! It was just one little moment in the day and you could see she felt better, and I felt better for making her feel better.


That was a very nice thing for you to do! Big props to you.

This was exactly what our team building meeting was about last week. Management wants to see everyone go the extra distance to make the realtors feel better about themselves after having interact with us, regardless of which department.

Obviously my former boss didnt think I was capable. Perhaps he had me attend the meeting as a last attempt to convince him otherwise.


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## Rowdyone

Sounds like you're on your way to having many more much better days.


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## Hoofpic

Rowdyone said:


> Sounds like you're on your way to having many more much better days.


Yes I am and I'm making sure of it because 3 days of letting the shock settle in was more than enough. What's done is done, I took it all in as a big time learning experience and now looking forward to my new adventure.

Like others have mentioned, I dont want to have to look back down the road deeply regretting wasting this much time and energy reflecting back on this former job.

I just have to go in tomorrow morning, no chit chat, just hand my papers, get my final ones and as soon as I receive the final paper, stand up, I stick my hand out to shake his hand, thank him for everything and tell him I gotta run and to take care.

Its absolutely critical that I stick my hand out first to offer to shake his hand because it shows initiative on my part and by me telling him right after that I got to run it gives him the impression that even though I am no longer spending 42.5 hours a week at their place, I am just as busy of a person as before. Im closing it on my time and not his.

Do you think I should wish him a merry christmas and happy new year as well?


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## Golden Horse

It is not critical that you stick out your hand first, just be polite, business like, but don't try and control everything. It truly does not matter if you do Merry Christmas or not, that is entirely up to you. You cannot control the meeting, just plan how you want to come across and stick to it. It is not a case of winning or losing, just a business transaction, one that he will not remember past the end of the day, so rather than worrying about every detail, just keep it short and to the point.


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## Whinnie

Yogiwick said:


> I actually agree with Whinnie, maybe I just see where she was going differently?
> 
> I see a tendency towards more "antisocial" than "introverted" behavior among other things.
> 
> However, short of pointing it out, there's really nothing more we can do nor is it any of our business to do more. We are random people and don't actually know Hoofpic. I know I for one probably come across differently via world wide web than in person.
> 
> As I said, my different jobs have taught me a LOT about _myself _(among other things) in an odd way and have shown me "the right direction" so to speak and I hope that Hoofpic can see this for the learning opportunity that it is.


 Thank you. There is no shame in getting objective third party advice (the forum is not objective as we "know" each other) when things are going south and your life has been affected. I believe it is very valuable to have that kind of one on one to help for reflection and to help one see that their own behavior and attitudes affect how they are treated by others.


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## Hoofpic

Golden Horse said:


> It is not critical that you stick out your hand first, just be polite, business like, but don't try and control everything. It truly does not matter if you do Merry Christmas or not, that is entirely up to you. You cannot control the meeting, just plan how you want to come across and stick to it. It is not a case of winning or losing, just a business transaction, one that he will not remember past the end of the day, so rather than worrying about every detail, just keep it short and to the point.


Ok thanks.

Thats what I plan on doing, keeping it short, brief and to the point. Be confident but at the same time not be a jerk about it and I will keep emotions out of it 100%.

Once I leave, no going back.


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## Saskia

I haven't read past the first page so I am commenting more on your initial post rather than the further developments.

I'm really sorry that you lost your job, I get so upset thinking of all these people who get fired just before Christmas. My partner-ish lost his job a few weeks ago, they called him in on a Friday afternoon and that was it, no notice and no time to say goodbye, they walked him to his locker and then he left. Apparently they have known for weeks and even told his representative. It's devastated him and pretty much destroyed our relationship, it's so much more than just a job. 

My second part is a bit of unwelcome advice. Horses are great and I get you love them but a skill that's really worth having is being able compartmentalise your life. This means keeping your horse life seperate from your work life or family life. I learned this the hard way being teased and mocked and rejected as a child because I was so into horses. I get it now - people don't want to hear you go on about your hobbies. And that's the thing, at work they are paying you to be who they want you to be, there is no need for a workplace to know you have a horse. Keep your life to yourself and do what they are paying you to do. If someone wants to know about you then they'll ask outright and then if they are still interested they will keep asking. 

Prioritising horses means that you find a place in your life for them that allows you still work. And sometimes that means going to a Christmas party, ts only a few hours but can benefit you. It doesn't have to be horses or work, they're not opposing. Passions are great for people, and you can use that passion to work harder and do better in every part of your life. 

So yeah, as much as you want to talk about horses keep it to yourself. I know you are dedicated but use that dedication to plan. Don't let horses be the reason you turn up late for work or don't finish a project. 

I hope you have a great Christmas!


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## Hoofpic

Saskia said:


> I'm really sorry that you lost your job, I get so upset thinking of all these people who get fired just before Christmas. My partner-ish lost his job a few weeks ago, they called him in on a Friday afternoon and that was it, no notice and no time to say goodbye, they walked him to his locker and then he left. Apparently they have known for weeks and even told his representative. It's devastated him and pretty much destroyed our relationship, it's so much more than just a job.


Thanks and Im so sorry to hear about partner looking his job. Totally unfair treatment. People like him deserve better than that, we are humans afterall.



> My second part is a bit of unwelcome advice. Horses are great and I get you love them but a skill that's really worth having is being able compartmentalise your life. This means keeping your horse life seperate from your work life or family life. I learned this the hard way being teased and mocked and rejected as a child because I was so into horses. I get it now - people don't want to hear you go on about your hobbies. And that's the thing, at work they are paying you to be who they want you to be, there is no need for a workplace to know you have a horse. Keep your life to yourself and do what they are paying you to do. If someone wants to know about you then they'll ask outright and then if they are still interested they will keep asking.
> 
> Prioritising horses means that you find a place in your life for them that allows you still work. And sometimes that means going to a Christmas party, ts only a few hours but can benefit you. It doesn't have to be horses or work, they're not opposing. Passions are great for people, and you can use that passion to work harder and do better in every part of your life.
> 
> So yeah, as much as you want to talk about horses keep it to yourself. I know you are dedicated but use that dedication to plan. Don't let horses be the reason you turn up late for work or don't finish a project.
> 
> I hope you have a great Christmas!


I understand where you are coming from. I did keep horses to myself. I never talked about horses with anyone at work. It was only 7 people in the entire company who knew I was even into horses and it was all from my former boss passing it on and telling them, not me.

My former boss was the first person to find out about my passion for horses and he found out in May of 2014 when he saw a picture of my ex's two horses on my computer wallpaper. He asked about it and from there, he immediately told the other managers and owner about my love for horses. Im not the type of person who walks around and tells people about myself. I dont even like talk about myself much. I usually keep my personal life to myself unless I share common interests with someone then I open up.

HOWEVER!!! I truly do believe that I did make one big mistake over the past 4-5 months, that I didnt see coming. I was hesistant at first but I think I paid the price at the end.

My former boss and I shared work calendars right from the day I was hired. He wanted this, afterall I was his assistant.

He used his calender for his personal life as well and he had no problem with it. I never used my calendar for my personal life as well, I kept it seperate.

This past summer, (though I was hesistant, had to consider it for a good couple first at first on whether it would be a good idea or not), I ended up incorporating my personal calendar into my work one. 

Boss saw and noticed this one day and even though he said he had no problem with it, I do feel it was a problem and a big mistake that I deeply regret doing.


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## Hoofpic

I dont what I was thinking, sharing your personal calendar with your boss by putting it with your work calender is just asking for trouble and playing with fire.

Stupid stupid stupid move on my part. I know a few of you will have a good chuckle because of how idiotic it was.


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## boots

Hoofpic said:


> Stupid stupid stupid move on my part. I know a few of you will have a good chuckle because of how idiotic it was.


Not at all. In some places that would be perfectly fine. Most, not a good idea.


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## Whinnie

I don't think it is funny, but I don't think that is why you lost your job either.


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## Hoofpic

Done.

He obviously wasnt happy with me at all. Noticed a much different person today vs last tues.

Went into one of the rooms, (we didnt even sit down) he gave me the papers, gave him mine, asked him to make a photocopy of the release papers so i had a copy (since i just came from the registry and they wouldnt photocopy for me).

He came back, gave me my copy and we both gave a handshake for 1/10th of a second that we both know had zero meaning behind it (it wasnt really a handshake), he immediately walked away and i said thanks for everything and happy new year while he walked away. He didnt say anything back. He made it obvious that he was upset witih me.

I know hes upset because i requested more money. Oh well. We both dont like each other anymore, nothing we can do. Its too bad we couldnt end things off on a more positive note.

One of the managers came up and said bye and shook my hand, said ill find somehing reall soon. That was really nice of him. 

I thought i wanted to make this quick, my former boss wanted it even quicker. He was visibly upset and showing emotion. I didnt show any.

I read my ref letter and i m very happy with it! Its not generic at all and he fufilled my request of mentioning how we parted ways because my role expanded. He went into detail about what i excelled at on the job. I just hope hes beinghonest.
If anyone wants to see it PM me.

Got to send a copy to the lady from this morning as i had a succesful interqview just 2 hours ago.


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## Rainaisabelle

You're making assumptions again, for all you know this could be hard and awkward for your boss so he doesn't want to do more then he has to.


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## Hoofpic

Rainaisabelle said:


> You're making assumptions again, for all you know this could be hard and awkward for your boss so he doesn't want to do more then he has to.


I know him well enough by now that it was not awkward for him at all. Even though there are times where stuff here and there can annoy him and make him agitated on the outside, and he will show signs of stress. I do know that very few things rattle him. This guy is one of the most confident individuals I have ever met in my life.

You know what? I was still a professional about it. I still thanked him and wished him a happy new year and Im proud of it. I didnt show any emotion what so ever. I could have just grabbed my stuff and walk right out without saying anything but I didnt. I do that and it tells him 100% that im upset with him. My composure came through once again and Im absolutely proud of how I handled myself in there today.

Like I said, both of us are opposites. There has been times where stuff will seep through cracks here and there when it comes to his composure. I never let anything break my composure. Its a trait I learned from my parents when growing up as a kid. I always keep my cool in the workplace. Perhaps one person in particular can take some pointers - hint hint. Yes that girl I do not like who blew up in my face all of a sudden like a complete physcho. *sigh*


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## Golden Horse

You are still making all sorts of assumptions, you simply do not know what he was thinking, and guess what, it no longer matters, you are away from him and that company. I again will guess that he will not give any thought to what happened today, and now you can close that door and move on, Hopefully you will take some learning from the whole experience and will use this in your new position


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## Remali

Good for you, hoofpic. And congrats on the job interview.

I agree with you, if you work with someone long enough, you can know them well enough, it's not just assuming or assumptions.


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## Hoofpic

Golden Horse said:


> You are still making all sorts of assumptions, you simply do not know what he was thinking, and guess what, it no longer matters, you are away from him and that company. I again will guess that he will not give any thought to what happened today, and now you can close that door and move on, Hopefully you will take some learning from the whole experience and will use this in your new position


Its a real learning experience for me trust me  Once I left, I closed things as well and I will not give thought as to what happened today.

Now, time to focus back on the wonderful interview I had this morning.




Remali said:


> Good for you, hoofpic. And congrats on the job interview.
> 
> I agree with you, if you work with someone long enough, you can know them well enough, it's not just assuming or assumptions.


Thanks. And yes you are right, when you work with primarily only one person for almost two years, you get to know them quite well.


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## Rowdyone

Congratulations on already having had an interview. Glad you were able to finish up your previous business in a professional manner. 

Onward and upward. I'm wishing you all the best.


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## elle1959

Hoofpic said:


> I know him well enough by now that it was not awkward for him at all.


If it wasn't awkward for him then I think you're well rid of the whole thing, because this would be a man without a heart or a conscience. 

Glad you had a good interview. Fingers crossed!


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## EponaLynn

Wow, congratulations! 

How did you get an interview so soon and do you think you'd like the job?


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## Hoofpic

Rowdyone said:


> Congratulations on already having had an interview. Glad you were able to finish up your previous business in a professional manner.
> 
> Onward and upward. I'm wishing you all the best.


Thank you, that means a lot to me.

I will say though that when I was waiting for my former boss in the waiting area sitting down, the branch boss stepped out of his office and came up to me and shook my hand, said sorry for what happened, and that I will find something real soon. It was a real nice gesture on his part. I told him thank you. It really made my day.

Right after one of the owners was walking by and came up and (he already knew I was let go), he decided to just be more positive about things and ask if I was ready for Christmas yet. It was a nice approach that he took. We talked for maybe 20secs about Christmas until my former boss was walking up with the papers. I really wanted to take a few secs to thank the one owner and shake his hand, but with my former boss walking up I didnt feel comfortable. I would have preferred to ask if he had a few secs to talk with us in a private room, but with the former boss there (and with the owner being his boss) I had a feeling he would object to it (thinking Im saying bad stuff about him etc). So I just didnt bother altogether cause I didnt want to risk causing a commotion or scene.

I feel bad for not at least thanking the one owner and shaking his hand. It just would have left a nice gesture. He was one of the nicest people in the company and one of the nicest most sincere people Ive ever met. If it wasnt for my former boss walking up I would have shook his hand and thanked him.

Im thinking about sending him an email tonight to say thanks for everything. Bad or good idea?



elle1959 said:


> *If it wasn't awkward for him then I think you're well rid of the whole thing, because this would be a man without a heart or a conscience. *
> 
> Glad you had a good interview. Fingers crossed!


Perhaps


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## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> Wow, congratulations!
> 
> How did you get an interview so soon and do you think you'd like the job?


I was casually browsing a couple days ago. Looked up the company, pulled the direct owners email and emailed them with a brief rundown on what I can do for them. I didnt have any expectations and was surprised to get a reply back at 4:30am this morning asking for me to come in this morning for an interview. I said of course! The lady seemed to really appreciate me coming in on such last minute notice. 

The position is pretty much identical to what ive been doing (similar duties for the most part, different industry) and our interview went really well this morning. I really upped the ante and sold myself well because I knew she was doing other interviews today. I really applied the SWAT method. She asked for references, I just sent them to her including the letter and she will be making a decision either later this week or next week.

I got a real good vibe, I felt I really sold myself but the only concern is that I felt I overpriced my salary expectations. But I told her that for oppurtunities close to home, I am always willing to be more flexible and that for me, its not all about the money, but more so the oppurtunity, the people and how well of a fit it is.

This would essentially be the same scenario as what I just came from. Working for one person for the most part.

The office is only a few blocks from the old office that I worked at (with the former boss). How ironic. Only 15mins from home tops and in the same direction as where my barn is at. Being able to keep home, work and your horse(s) in the same proximity would be a huge luxury for me.

The commute to the old job was just brutal. 30-40mins there in the mornings, then another 40-50 mins to the barn after work. Uhhh. And if I came home after work, its 40-50mins...easily an hour in winters with snow.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Have you ever heard of the saying, "He gets his exercise by jumping to conclusions"? 

You've been getting a lot of exercise lately. Watch it, it can be hazardous to your peace of mind. You waaaaaay over think things, you need to let go.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Hoofpic said:


> Being able to keep home, work and your horse(s) in the same proximity would be a huge luxury for me.


But keep HOME, WORK and YOUR HORSE completely separate. If it wasn't for me occasionally wearing my champ jacket from US Nationals, people at work wouldn't ever even know that I own horses. It has no need to be introduced at work.


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## Hoofpic

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> But keep HOME, WORK and YOUR HORSE completely separate. If it wasn't for me occasionally wearing my champ jacket from US Nationals, people at work wouldn't ever even know that I own horses. It has no need to be introduced at work.


But like I said I didnt introduce my horse to work, my former boss found out I was even into horses by seeing pictures of my ex's two horses on my computer wallpaper. Then he started telling the other managers about my interest in horses. Im actually very private when it comes to telling about my personal life and to whom. I only do it with people I have chemistry with and my former boss and I never had chemistry outside of "hi, hows it going.....see ya".


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Hoofpic said:


> But like I said I didnt introduce my horse to work, my former boss found out I was even into horses by seeing pictures of my ex's two horses on my computer wallpaper.


Yes, you did. It's on your computer wallpaper, that's the same as putting up a framed pic on your desk. Leave it at home. 

Hoofpic, my husband and I both work for the same company. Most people don't even know that either one of us is married, let alone to each other. We don't work in the same division, nor office, and I don't discuss him or what we do away from work. When I eat in the lunch room, I say hi to everyone, sit down and eat and chat for a minute, "How's your day?" "Boy it was a crazy morning, wasn't it?" stuff like that. Nobody at work even has a glimmer that I also have dogs, cats, chickens, ride, show, travel, NONE of it. I'm not at all stand offish, actually, I can chat with anybody about anything but I let them lead the conversation and I don't give up personal info. 

Now that all said, I don't think any of that is why you got let go. You said it all earlier when you talked about lack of attention to detail, not having your heart in it, etc etc. THAT stuff is a job killer for sure. Not the other stuff.


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## sarahfromsc

I don't know how you can say in one post how you know your boss, therefore being able to tell us here what he is thinking/feeling, and then a page later state y'all's relationship was nothing more than 'hi and bye'.

You say you got to know your boss. I seriously doubt you knew him at all. To get to really know someone, and have the right to make assumptions about their thoughts, feelings, and actions, you need to have some honest and real conversations. More than ' hi and bye'.

Just remember that firing is a very difficult thing to do. I have seen some managers that have to eat a bottle of Tums for weeks to get through the process. It is difficult, you feel horrible about taking away a persons ability to feed and put a roof over their heads. Your boss walking away could have been due to a feelling of guilt, or feeling like a heel. After all he did hire YOU. Maybe he feels stupid that he read you so wrong? Or maybe hie is having family issues and didn't have time? Who knows, but don't make assumptions.


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## Hoofpic

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Yes, you did. It's on your computer wallpaper, that's the same as putting up a framed pic on your desk. Leave it at home.
> 
> Hoofpic, my husband and I both work for the same company. Most people don't even know that either one of us is married, let alone to each other. We don't work in the same division, nor office, and I don't discuss him or what we do away from work. When I eat in the lunch room, I say hi to everyone, sit down and eat and chat for a minute, "How's your day?" "Boy it was a crazy morning, wasn't it?" stuff like that. Nobody at work even has a glimmer that I also have dogs, cats, chickens, ride, show, travel, NONE of it. I'm not at all stand offish, actually, I can chat with anybody about anything but I let them lead the conversation and I don't give up personal info.
> 
> Now that all said, I don't think any of that is why you got let go. You said it all earlier when you talked about lack of attention to detail, not having your heart in it, etc etc. THAT stuff is a job killer for sure. Not the other stuff.


Oh ok, I will be sure to keep my mare out of work.

I know lots who post pictures of their kids or dogs on their cubicle walls, would you see that being the same? but its just not worth the risk.

I know exactly why I got let go and I know exactly what I need to correct for the next job. I gaurentee I wont be the same person with the same attitude or mindset on my next job.


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## Hoofpic

sarahfromsc said:


> I don't know how you can say in one post how you know your boss, therefore being able to tell us here what he is thinking/feeling, and then a page later state y'all's relationship was nothing more than 'hi and bye'.
> 
> You say you got to know your boss. I seriously doubt you knew him at all. To get to really know someone, and have the right to make assumptions about their thoughts, feelings, and actions, you need to have some honest and real conversations. More than ' hi and bye'.


You are right. When we first started working together we actually had some decent conversations every now and then. Not saying that we had life changing conversations but we had some convos that were enough to learn about each other as a person outside of work.

But after a few months it quickly faded and we chatted less and less. Our conversations became only work based. We used to ask how each others weekends were, what we had planned etc. We used to crack jokes at each other and make fun of each other. I have a very sarcastic sense of humour and he knew it. Our sense of humours were very much opposite. I am a very blunt person, him not so much. I know for a fact that my bluntness and my black and white sense of humour did annoy him at times (THIS I know 100%, its not an assumption, even other managers picked up on this). But over time, our convos stopped. I would still ask him every now and then how his weekend was but he would never ask back.

Over time our relationship became just a "hi hows it going"...bye, see you tomorrow" relationship. We would often just say "hey hows it going, first thing on a Monday morning and not ask each other how our weekend was or what we did.

We also used to go lunches every few months (where he would take me out, on business expense of course) where we would catch up on tasks, deadlines, projects, duties, etc. I noticed these lunches stopped happening about spring of this year. I knew somethign was up.

I got to know him by how he was and acted at work. I did see quite a bit of him "outside of work" (and he saw just as much of me as well) at after hour work events and even one that was at his own home the first month I started the job. He even introduced me to his mother, his dad and his dog.



> Just remember that firing is a very difficult thing to do. I have seen some managers that have to eat a bottle of Tums for weeks to get through the process. It is difficult, you feel horrible about taking away a persons ability to feed and put a roof over their heads.


True.



> Your boss walking away could have been due to a feelling of guilt, or feeling like a heel. After all he did hire YOU. Maybe he feels stupid that he read you so wrong? Or maybe hie is having family issues and didn't have time? Who knows, but don't make assumptions.


I wont make assumptions. Perhaps he does feel bad and just didnt feel comfortable in the situation at the end with the handshake. Perhaps he wasnt trying to be rude.

I do know that he is dealing with some stuff in his life right now (he said it in the team building meeting 2 weeks ago). Obviously we dont know what it is, how serious it is and none of us should know because its none of our business, but he did mention it. Just thought it was interesting. He just said that he has some ____ in his life that hes dealing with right now.


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## Hoofpic

Im posting the ref letter here if anyone would like to see. One member on here feels it would be really beneficial because it really is a wonderful letter. It seems really honest and sincere and perhaps I gained back some of the respect I lost for my former boss over the past week. He really did do me a huge favour.


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## EponaLynn

I think some posters are being a little harsh with you.

Everyone is different and only you know what you should be doing and not doing at your place of employment. If coming to HF is your way of thinking things through, then that's a lot better than messing them up. You clearly want to learn from your mistakes and this is a great place for that to happen, and if it's not happening in the time frame others think it should that shouldn't concern you.

Personally I think it's unusual to hide everything about your life outside of work, however that being said, it's important to not let any of that effect your work or give the impression it takes precedent over your work (even if it does).

Good luck on the potential job and remember to ask (inside yourself) to be guided to the highest and best outcome for you and all concerned!

Your reference letter looks great, aren't you glad you asked for one?


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## Hoofpic

EponaLynn said:


> I think some posters are being a little harsh with you.
> 
> Everyone is different and only you know what you should be doing and not doing at your place of employment. If coming to HF is your way of thinking things through, then that's a lot better than messing them up. You clearly want to learn from your mistakes and this is a great place for that to happen, and if it's not happening in the time frame others think it should that shouldn't concern you.
> 
> Personally I think it's unusual to hide everything about your life outside of work, however that being said, it's important to not let any of that effect your work or give the impression it takes precedent over your work (even if it does).
> 
> Good luck on the potential job and remember to ask (inside yourself) to be guided to the highest and best outcome for you and all concerned!
> 
> Your reference letter looks great, aren't you glad you asked for one?


I can understand the points many are making about me making unintentional assumptions. I really do appreciate each post and I take in every piece of advice seriously. 

I know exactly what is on my immediate agenda in making me improve as a person. Ive started implementing it today and I need to do it everyday, no matter the time, place or situation. The more I do it, the more I will benefit from it, the happier I will be, the more positive energy people will get from me.

Like I said before, my former boss sets a great example for the company. He has taught me many things. Ive learned a lot from him as a person.

Remember just a couple months ago, I would always walk with my head down and walk lazy at the barn? Well I havent since then and since that day that I made it my immediate permanent goal to walk straight with my head up, chin up, back straight, it has become natural for me now and because I implemented this in my everyday life at work, home, every where I am, it didnt take long to adjust. Now I put so much emphasis on my walk, much more than ever before in my life.

If I can carry over this attitude and mindset to how I interact with others (regardless of me knowing them or not), on a daily basis, then it will only benefit me not just in the workplace but in everyday life.

The past couple days I have taken a step in being more proactive socially. And I feel happier for doing so. If I cant be proactive socially then prounce it with my body language, smiling etc...and others will feed off it. The biggest thing for me is that i need to be consistent. Fortunately, this is a word that Ive really become familiar with over the past few months.


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## Remali

I don't know... I had photos of my horses up on my desk at work. I think all of us have different work environments, and different ways of looking at things. While some may want to keep their horses/hobbies and work separate, some of us do not. There is no right or wrong approach to this at all, it's an individual thing.

I agree, some are being overly harsh and a bit too judgmental here... Just because person "A" doesn't do something at their workplace does not mean person "B" needs to do the same thing as person "A". People need to stop judging hoofpic so harshly, and stop telling hoofpic what they should and should not share with coworkers... it's a personal choice, and really no one else's business.

Seriously, we could also say the same about those who are not willing to share their hobbies with their coworkers. There IS no right or wrong way to go about it. Not everyone wants to keep home and work and hobbies separate, and it works out OK for them.


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## Remali

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Have you ever heard of the saying, "He gets his exercise by jumping to conclusions"?
> 
> You've been getting a lot of exercise lately. Watch it, it can be hazardous to your peace of mind. You waaaaaay over think things, you need to let go.



What works for one person does not always work for another.
Have you ever heard of the saying, we are all different and all individuals? There is no right or wrong way of working things out... I know people who do better when really thinking it over deeply and going over something repeatedly, and I know others who do best when not giving it another thought.


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## EponaLynn

I don't see a big difference between having a pic of a horse on your desktop and occasionally wearing a champ jacket from US Nationals, actually I think the latter says more to those around you. That's just me though.


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## Whinnie

Eponalynn and Remali: Following months of posts, it appeared the problem was being obsessed, involved and immersed in his horse to the point his work suffered; thinking about the horse while at work rather than focusing on work. There were other things also at play. Certainly not as simple as having a photo on his desk or people knowing he has a horse. Familiar posters are trying to help him stay focused and on point, hoping to help him avoid the same mistakes being repeated at another job.


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## Rainaisabelle

I don't think anyone was really being harsh and judgemental they were giving the reality of the situation. Hoof pic seems to contradict his own posts making it hard to actually keep the story in one piece including jumping to conclusions. No offence to hoofpic at all but I prefer to be straight up honest rather then beating around the bush.


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## Whinnie

I would like to add that Hoofpic has stated himself that he has ADD. Having a picture of his horse in his workplace can certainly distract him and add to the problem. I have been called out for suggesting professional help for Hoofpic. When one has ADD and has trouble maintaining focus at work and difficulty with relationships, what better way to get proper guidance than from a trained professional who can assist a person to deal with it?

Being supportive can also mean being honest and to the point.


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## Hoofpic

Whinnie said:


> Eponalynn and Remali: Following months of posts, it appeared the problem was being obsessed, involved and immersed in his horse to the point his work suffered; thinking about the horse while at work rather than focusing on work. There were other things also at play. Certainly not as simple as having a photo on his desk or people knowing he has a horse. Familiar posters are trying to help him stay focused and on point, hoping to help him avoid the same mistakes being repeated at another job.


My job is very spuratic. I can be super busy one day and then twiddling my fingers the next two days. I had some serious motivational problems on the job. They werent there at first but as I started to like the job less and less, it was more difficult to motivate myself to work. Some days I was really motivated and I would get a ton done. Other days I struggled and just ended up reading horse books or being on here or reading horse articles.

I was starting to lose interest in my job WELL BEFORE getting into horses. When I got my mare (June), my interest in my job was pretty much spent. I was exchausted, burnt out, I found the work tedious (work that I once enjoyed).

Because of this and and my summer months, this past summer spent at the barn, I was pretty much pre-occupied with horse stuff instead of work. 

Im not making excuses but me losing interest in my job well before I really dove into the horse world was the biggest factor. If this wasnt the case, then I would have kept more focused on my work when at work. 

When I chose not to focus on work when at work, it was because I was so bored and because I work alone, it only fueled the fire.

I prefer jobs that are super fast paced and super busy cause the days go by fast. I also really excell in fast paces workplaces with high work volume. I am what my former boss called an "extreme multitasker". Unfortunately, the job was never overly busy. I had my times here and there where I was really busy from when I got there til when I left. But 99% of the time, I had so much free time that I was sitting there surfing the web or doing nothing.



Whinnie said:


> I would like to add that Hoofpic has stated himself that he has ADD. Having a picture of his horse in his workplace can certainly distract him and add to the problem. I have been called out for suggesting professional help for Hoofpic. When one has ADD and has trouble maintaining focus at work and difficulty with relationships, what better way to get proper guidance than from a trained professional who can assist a person to deal with it?
> 
> Being supportive can also mean being honest and to the point.


Yes I was diagnosed with ADD when I was in grade 12, but it was a very minor case of ADD. If I can keep myself busy and my mind occupied, I have no problems at all focusing on the task on hand. Of course I have to have interest in what im doing as well. Im not saying I need to love my job but I need to find it enjoyable and not tedious.


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## Hoofpic

Yogiwick said:


> If you get into horses more you can say goodbye to vacations. An unheard thing in this house lol!


I pretty much never take vacations as is. Havent flown in over 8 years and the last time I left the city was 2 years ago.

I would love to travel but I just dont see the value in it. Just me.

If I was married or with someone, then Im sure i would feel much differently.


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## Hoofpic

Well I did something really different tonight! I went to a meetup where we went to see "Sisters". This is the first time ive been to the theatre in almost 2 years, felt really wierd! Like REALLY wierd! Totally not used to being out with people.

But one, it got me around people socializing (though movies is very limited, but still we got to do a meet and greet before going in) and it also got me to free my mind a bit more with some laughs.

Cant say the group (of 5) are a group I would meetup with again but it was a good night and different for a change.


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## Comfortably Numb

Remali said:


> I don't know... I had photos of my horses up on my desk at work. I think all of us have different work environments, and different ways of looking at things. While some may want to keep their horses/hobbies and work separate, some of us do not. There is no right or wrong approach to this at all, it's an individual thing.
> 
> I agree, some are being overly harsh and a bit too judgmental here... Just because person "A" doesn't do something at their workplace does not mean person "B" needs to do the same thing as person "A". People need to stop judging hoofpic so harshly, and stop telling hoofpic what they should and should not share with coworkers... it's a personal choice, and really no one else's business.
> 
> Seriously, we could also say the same about those who are not willing to share their hobbies with their coworkers. There IS no right or wrong way to go about it. Not everyone wants to keep home and work and hobbies separate, and it works out OK for them.


And I am almost afraid to say what I have in my office and how much I talk about horses with my colleagues... Since the rules seem rather strict. 

I will tell you, but please do not tell anyone else, ok? I have a picture of a rider on a horse with the caption: *Born to ride... Forced to work!* - and this above my desk, for all who enter the room to read. I guess I am in trouble! :gallop:


----------



## SEAmom

Whinnie said:


> I would like to add that Hoofpic has stated himself that he has ADD. Having a picture of his horse in his workplace can certainly distract him and add to the problem. I have been called out for suggesting professional help for Hoofpic. When one has ADD and has trouble maintaining focus at work and difficulty with relationships, what better way to get proper guidance than from a trained professional who can assist a person to deal with it?
> 
> Being supportive can also mean being honest and to the point.


My husband was diagnosed with ADD in college. He was on medication while he was in school and went off when he graduated. While he was taking meds, he also went to counseling to learn how to deal with having ADD, what he can do when he goes off the meds and is in the workplace. Taking that step alone was probably the biggest difference for him. He has the tools and knowledge of how to deal with ADD in the workplace.


----------



## SEAmom

Wanted to add:
Using ADD as an excuse for a poor work ethic is a cop out. It's not a reason. If one doesn't know how to deal with uninteresting work and prefers to blame ADD, then a professional can offer plenty of solutions to the problem at hand. Not cool to blame a disorder (especially a "mild" case) instead of being an adult. There are plenty of other people who cope with their own problems without placing blame where it shouldn't lie.


----------



## Hoofpic

SEAmom said:


> Wanted to add:
> Using ADD as an excuse for a poor work ethic is a cop out. It's not a reason. If one doesn't know how to deal with uninteresting work and prefers to blame ADD, then a professional can offer plenty of solutions to the problem at hand. Not cool to blame a disorder (especially a "mild" case) instead of being an adult. There are plenty of other people who cope with their own problems without placing blame where it shouldn't lie.


Im not blaming ADD for anything. It was me and my attitude and work ethic that was the reason and I know it.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum

Hoofpic said:


> I pretty much never take vacations as is. Havent flown in over 8 years and the last time I left the city was 2 years ago.
> 
> I would love to travel but I just dont see the value in it. Just me.
> 
> If I was married or with someone, then Im sure i would feel much differently.


Vacations aren't always flying somewhere or going somewhere and doing something. I haven't had a vacation like that since...ummmmm...2008. I haven't been on a plane in 11+ years. My honeymoon when I got married in October was going 45 minutes north to a small town and staying two days, just walking around and enjoying each other (I might add that this is a small town both of us have been to dozens, if not hundreds, of times). 

Vacation to me is a rest from work, no matter what you're doing. It's having more than your normal two days off in a row (which I don't get anymore). Heck, the longest "vacation" I've had in the last five years was when I was thrown from a horse and fractured my ankle, so had to miss five days of work because my employer wouldn't let me come back to work until I had my follow-up appointment with the orthopedist, followed a few months later by the four or so days I took off when I had shoulder surgery.


----------



## churumbeque

Comfortably Numb said:


> And I am almost afraid to say what I have in my office and how much I talk about horses with my colleagues... Since the rules seem rather strict.
> 
> I will tell you, but please do not tell anyone else, ok? I have a picture of a rider on a horse with the caption: *Born to ride... Forced to work!* - and this above my desk, for all who enter the room to read. I guess I am in trouble! :gallop:


 Most employees are on FB all day or making personal phone calls and emails.


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## sarahfromsc

Unless the company blocks FB. we had to block FB, ESPN, and bridal web pages.

That company had a very strict Internet usage policy. And monitored all the time and blocked when needed.

Maybe it is a generational thing, but I never went on FB. On my lunch hour, if I stayed at the office, I would cruise the Internet if I was looking for something. But to spend hours looking at non work related stuff? No.


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## Whinnie

churumbeque said:


> Most employees are on FB all day or making personal phone calls and emails.


 I would sure not be paying an employee for that.


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## Hoofpic

Bit OT but after going to lasts night random meetup i was quickly reminded why i stopped going to them altogether and havent attended any this year or last year abd maybe one the year before that. They just feel so awkward and lots of wierd people. For the most part, theyre nothing but a waste of time. Too many no shows, poorly planned meetup spots. last night only 4 of 10 showed and it just felt awkward. We were sitting in the theatre before the movie started, i put my phone away and everyone else is just on their phone texting uhhh. Im like really?

I changed my mind and wont be going to the meetup on xmas day night. I just have a feeling its going to be a huge waste of time and i really dont feel like driving 38km each way. For what im going to spend on bringing a dish, plus a secret santa gift, plus gas, i might as well just go see a movie by myself or something, itll be much cheaper.

So thats what ill do. Im going to spend xmas dinner with family and maybe go see a movie by myself later around 7pm. If theres nothing interesting playing then ill just stay at moms and dads. I didnt go to moms last christmas and i felt bad after.

When i told mom last week that i wasnt going to be there for dinner again this year, i could tell she was dissapointed.

Our family is having our gift celebration at 4pm that day and it doesnt feel right to leave early to go meet a bunch of strangers. Family comes first.


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## Hoofpic

Just wanted to say thanks to the members on here who kept saying how I should be spending Christmas with family. Especially since last Christmas, my siblings, niece and 3 nephews werent here (they were in St. Lucia for Christmas and new years). We skyped on CHristmas day so that they could say Merry Christmas to my parents but it wasnt the same as actually having them here.

We usually go to my sisters on Xmas eve for dinner and my moms on Xmas day for dinner with gift celebration at like 4pm on Xmas day. But last year was wierd because we had our gift celebration like in the first week of Dec.

And like I said, I deeply regretted not going to my moms on Christmas dinner especially since I was the only child in town, I should have gone. My moms sisters and niece and nephews were there but none of her own kids were there, I should have been there. 

Im glad to make up for it this year after letting her down last year. And more glad that I chose family before random strangers on meetup.com. I told my mom today that I will be home for dinner tomorrow and she was elighted.

We went to my sisters tonight for dinner and it was really nice! Havent been to her place for almost 2 years!


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## lsdrider

Hoofpic said:


> I pretty much never take vacations as is. Havent flown in over 8 years and the last time I left the city was 2 years ago.
> 
> I would love to travel but I just dont see the value in it. Just me.
> 
> If I was married or with someone, then Im sure i would feel much differently.


You can vacation with your horse!

I took 2 vacations with mine this year. One was a week in the summer at two different campgrounds, each about 50 miles from home. The other in the fall was two weeks, in four different campgrounds, the furthest being about 350 miles from home.

I'm right now planning next years vacations. The first, 2 weeks in late spring about 500 miles from home and another week in the fall.


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## enh817

I haven't read even half of this really long thread, so I'm not sure if someone else has mentioned this, or even what the status of your situation is right now. But I really think you need to speak with an attorney. Based on the posts I did read, it doesn't sound like you were rightfully terminated. And it's also clear that you are not aware of your rights. 
There are many places that will do free legal consultations. I did a quick search and found these (can't remember what part of Canada you're in), but I'm sure there are many more resources if you look for them. 

Fired? Terminated? Dismissed? Toronto Labour & Employment Law Firm Du Markowitz LLP Can Help

Where to Get Help â€” OEERC There's a number under 'Lawyer Referral Services' that you can call for a free 30 minute consultation. 


I'm really sorry this happened to you, but it's incredibly important for you to try to keep your emotions from clouding your judgement. You need to keep you head on straight and figure out if your rights have been violated, and if so, what actions you can take. Being fired can have devastating effects on the future of your career, do not just roll over and accept this.


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## rynewly

Sadly, these days more and more people are being let go. Companies can't afford so many full time employees where the company provides or pays part of the employee's health care benefits. They can hire new people for less than 30 hours a week and not have to pay benefits. They can hire younger people and pay them lower wages.


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## rynewly

I have learned a very hard lesson. I left my job to take a high risk, high reward position. What I did not know is that there is so much age discrimination these days.


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## rynewly

It can be very difficult to get work after age 55 or even age 50, if one does not have a license in a trade.


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## boots

rynewly said:


> It can be very difficult to get work after age 55 or even age 50, if one does not have a license in a trade.


 It can be tough even if you're licensed.

Many companies have a pay scale based on experience. More years = higher pay. And if you are competing with candidates that don't need insurance, because they can ride a spouse's policy. Welp... yer screwed.


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## Hoofpic

Just wanted to give an update. I didnt think this thread would still be alive!

I got 2 more interviews tomorrow. One is literally 10min walk from home but the pay is signficantly less than the other. Not that the other one is far, its not, but yes I would be willing to take a bit of a pay cut to work super close to home. Walking distance would be unreal especially in the summer times. No traffic, no rush hour, literally 3 min drive home.

Remember the job interview I had before Christmas. Well, she got in touch with me last week and she wants to bring me on board but once things pick up for her - business wise. Her payroll got cut down to 2 days a week and said she would love to bring me on right now but it would be commission only. I said that I cannot accept that as I need at least a base salary involved. She said she understands and will keep in touch. Its unfortunate that her payroll got cut down to 2 days a week, otherwise I would be starting this job already!

There is one barn, who told me to contact them at the end of the month to see if the person who they just hired before Christmas is going to last. He says 50-50 chance. Theyre not too bad for distance, still within the city and believe it or not, not much further than my old job. This is IF I want to go the barn labour route. 

Im really excited about the two interviews tomorrow! Im getting myself prepared right now. Im going to spend all morning tomorrow studying the companies and preparing. I need to nail both of them.

In terms of interest, both are about the same, I have high interest in both equally but the one really close to home is a lot more entry level (hence the pay).


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## Rowdyone

Glad to see you're still chugging along.


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## Hoofpic

Thanks Rowdyone, your compliments mean alot to me.

As many doubters as I have on here, I have learned a lot from my former boss. Like I said, he is a very very good role model for the company and in doing what he does. Its unfortunate that I blew the oppurtunity. 

I know I shouldnt be thinking of him, but I can pull a lot from him by simply how he communicates and presents himself. Even though I will never become an extrovert like he is (and I shouldnt be expecting for me to), its the little things that he does that I can mentor from, moving forward.


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## churumbeque

Did you qualify for unemployment?


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## Hoofpic

churumbeque said:


> Did you qualify for unemployment?


Yes I did file the week I was laid off and it should be any day now that I hear back from EI. They have all the papers and documents already. Usually 2 week turn around time and 28 days to get your first deposit.


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## Hoofpic

I always bring a copy of my references to every interview and I most definitely will be bringing a copy of that ref letter as well tomorrow. I still think its a very valuable piece today!!! I am SO GLAD I got it!

I just have to key in and remember what exactly got me my last job (how do I know, my former boss told me, the week I started the job).

1) My references
2) My attitude when I went in for my interview and he could see how bad I wanted the position.
3) My very good ability to proof, from past jobs.

He said it was pretty much my attitude and my keen interest that got me the job, the rest was just icing on the cake. I made it very very obvious in the interview on how much I wanted the job.

Need to repeat the exact same tomorrow.


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## jenkat86

Good luck today!


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## Hoofpic

jenkat86 said:


> Good luck today!


Thank you! I plan on nailing both of the interviews with my goal of getting one of them. Im very confident, I just have a good feeling.


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## Saddlebag

I can relate to your needing to be busy and challenged. I left a boring job that dragged out the day for a job that kept me busy. The day would fly by.


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## Hoofpic

Saddlebag said:


> I can relate to your needing to be busy and challenged. I left a boring job that dragged out the day for a job that kept me busy. The day would fly by.


Im versatile but I do best in fast paced crazy busy, hectic environments because what many of my former bosses have said is that Im an extreme multi-tasker and I really excel in fast paced environments. This is my bread and butter and where my organizational skills really shine. 

Ive worked in some hectic environments where its go go go from when you get there til you get off, and this is what I prefer because the days go by so fast and you are always on your toes, always alert, awake, etc.

My former job definitely was not fast paced, nor busy. I will admit, there were times where I just about fell asleep on the job because it was so slow. Mondays were my busiest day of the week and on occasion a Tues would be as well. But for the most part, the days dragged out miserably and lots of clock watching. Especially the last few months I was there, it was just brutally slow. I think me working solo for 100% of the time didnt help the cause either. 

Not to sound cocky but the job just wasnt challenging enough for me in terms of workload and the duties. When I first started, taking in all that information and going through that extensive training was overwhelming, but like I said, Im a very quick learner so once I got in the routine of things, everything became tedious because it just wasnt stimulating for me.

It of course didnt help that my organizational skills were better than my former boss (we were different, I was a proactive go go go planner, doing stuff well ahead of time, whereas he was a procrastinator and often would get stuff to me super last minute or late). He would often forget about stuff and I would have to get on him. Ive never worked for a procrastinator before but I have to say that it definitely causes conflict and obviously my preference would be someone who is not a procrastinator.


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## Zexious

Best of luck with the interviews!! Let us know how it goes <3


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## Hoofpic

Zexious said:


> Best of luck with the interviews!! Let us know how it goes <3


One down, one to go!

First one went really well! 

I was totally caught off guard cause the interview was so to the point and literally 12mins tops. I was able to ask my questions and they answered them well.

They really only asked me two questions

1) Tell me about yourself 
2) Why here

They had their job ad up for over a month and my guess is that they have most likely are trying to cut the BS and get to the meat and potatoes since they havent had any luck yet in finding the right candidate. 

They said basically they like to first put candidates in the hot seat for an hour or two, working with another member to see if it would be a good fit for them. Then talk more after.

So I go back this Tues for an hour to work with one of the members currently in my position. 

Im excited! I went in today exactly how I went into the interview on my former job. I was lite up, I was estatic, happy, smiling, etc. I will do the same Tues. I need to blow them away on Tues. That is my goal. Make them go wow.

This job is almost opposite what I was doing before. Its still got the core duties of my old job (not all but some) but its also very customer service orientated. This would be a big challenge for me and IMO would really help me become more social, extroverted, learn about otehrs etc

Small company but everyone is close and very friendly (according to the interviewers today). But the industry field is one of my passions. Not as high as horses but its always been a passion of mine.


----------



## jenkat86

Hoofpic said:


> This job is almost opposite what I was doing before. Its still got the core duties of my old job (not all but some) but its also very customer service orientated. This would be a big challenge for me and IMO would really help me become more social, extroverted, learn about otehrs etc


My job is very customer service oriented. Our customers are the major aircraft and energy manufacturers in North America. My position has _really_ made me come out of my comfort zone and shell. It surprisingly hasn't been uncomfortable either. It will be be good for you! 

Sounds like you did your best!


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## Hoofpic

jenkat86 said:


> My job is very customer service oriented. Our customers are the major aircraft and energy manufacturers in North America. My position has _really_ made me come out of my comfort zone and shell. It surprisingly hasn't been uncomfortable either. It will be be good for you!
> 
> Sounds like you did your best!


Im feeling very optimistic about the 1st interview and going back on Tues. I think it will be very good for me as well with the customer interaction.

My former job obviously wasnt the best for me because I worked alone 100% of the time. 

What excites me most about this new position is that its super fast paced and always busy. According to the girls there, it gets hectic busy, and thats what I want! This is the kind of environment I do the best in.

Its very customer service focused, and you work in a team of 3. Not all the time, but all 3 of you have the same role so that means you all share the same responsibilities.

Im going to nail it on Tues and wow them. I want patients talking about how pleasant it was for them being helped by me. I will only be there for an hour so I need to really go at it for the ful 60mins.

I dont think Ive smiled this much over the past 2 years than I did in todays interview. You feel like a completely different person when you have that kind of positive energy and confidence. I want to have a positive energy from me at work where others will notice and benefit from. I took a page from my former bosses book.

Im going to do everything I can on tues to get this job....on the spot.

Even though what I was doing at my former job was interesting at first. The company altogether and the field I was in (real estate) just didnt interest me one bit. I couldnt care less about it. I really do believe that you have to have some interest in the field the company is in.


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## greentree

Patients? This is in the medical field? That is really great! I hope it works out!


----------



## Rowdyone

Hoofpic said:


> Thanks Rowdyone, your compliments mean alot to me.
> 
> As many doubters as I have on here, I have learned a lot from my former boss. Like I said, he is a very very good role model for the company and in doing what he does. Its unfortunate that I blew the oppurtunity.
> 
> I know I shouldnt be thinking of him, but I can pull a lot from him by simply how he communicates and presents himself. Even though I will never become an extrovert like he is (and I shouldnt be expecting for me to), its the little things that he does that I can mentor from, moving forward.


If you took something beneficial from your position, you didn't blow it. Further, we can learn from people whether we like, love, don't like, or can't stand them. Sometimes we learn what _not_ to do. Sometimes we pick up things that help us become, if not better employees, better people in general. (I'm speaking from personal experience...) To turn a blind eye to our experience robs us of what we could learn. Use it all--you earned it.


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## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> Patients? This is in the medical field? That is really great! I hope it works out!


Thanks. Yes its in Naturalopathic medicine and Chiro/Massage/etc.

Ive always been a health nut and am very much into extended health (chiro, physio, acupuncture, etc Ive done it all and benefit greatly from it). I do have a lot of knowledge on nutrition as well and how diet, fitness and mental well being all tie into an individuals overall condition.

When I was young, nutrition was actually what i was going to get into. Even when I was in my mid 20s I still consider being a nutritionist on the side where i would encourage healthier living but I never did it. Enterpreneur just isnt for me and especially not at this point in my life. My former boss actually said last year I should do it, he knows how much of a health nut I am. I truly do believe I could be a valuable asset to this company.


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## Hoofpic

Rowdyone said:


> If you took something beneficial from your position, you didn't blow it. Further, we can learn from people whether we like, love, don't like, or can't stand them. Sometimes we learn what _not_ to do. Sometimes we pick up things that help us become, if not better employees, better people in general. (I'm speaking from personal experience...) To turn a blind eye to our experience robs us of what we could learn. Use it all--you earned it.


I blew it in terms of my performance drop, me socializing as much as I should be, my body language changing as time went on etc. Once I got my mare, I was a lot more motivated on the job, but it was too late.

But it was still a great learning experience as I do believe I gained a lot of skills from it and having known and worked for my former boss, he taught me a lot. Not just work related but personal things as well (mostly how to carry yourself better, communicate, etc).

Even though he wont admit that my deep passion for the horse world was a factor, he knew my heart just wasnt with the company and he knew it was with horses.


----------



## Hoofpic

Alright, now is the waiting game I guess. I am confident I got the job, but Im trying not to get over confident here!!!! I really want the job, plus I really need it! 

Yes I got qualified for E.I but only $456CDN a month! What the hell?! I thought it was suppose to be 55% of your net income, but NOOO, its 55% of the number of insurable hours you are entitled to. The number of your insurable hours is NOT the number of hours you worked in that year. I thought it was but NOPE! Anyways $456CDN Is very low! Anyway more on this later.



Should I send my thank you letter now? I normally would have sent it the day of the interview (hours later) but because I was going in for a bit of shadowing today, I held off. I need to send the thank you letter to both the manager and the owner who interviewed me TODAY! I totally was not expecting another interview today haha.

I went in today and first thing was the owner wanted to meet me so he took me to the back and we did a bit of an interview.

The first thing is he said that everyone in the office has been really impressed by me. From my cover letter to my resume to my interview, to how I present and carry myself. That was one of the most powerful compliments ive ever received in my life. It really meant a lot and especially seeing where I just came from (former job). I didnt know what to say except thank you.

His concern was basically that he felt he could give me the position today as he said he had no doubt in his mind I could perform the job remarkably. Its just that, seeing how on my resume I have worked for some really large corporations, that he wanted to make sure I would be there to stay.

So he asked me the same question I was asked on Friday by one of the managers - why here? I think I did a good job selling myself and reassuring him.

He also asked me a couple other questions - why I left my previous jobs.

He then said that he will be googling my name up (as he does all his employees before hiring) and asked if I wanted to let him know of anything that he might come across on say a twitter or facebook account. I told him Im not into social media and he wont find any surprises. Also told him that I appreciated him letting me know and that its nice of him to ask before hand.

Asked when they were looking for the person to start and they said possibly as early as this Monday. So if I get the job, it sounds like a decision will be made in the next day or two.

Btw, I job shadowed for almost 2 hours and everything went great.

Also, Im surprised they didnt ask for refs. As much as I would love to show them my lovely ref letter, I generally only give refs when asked. Good or bad idea?

Now, onto sending them my thank you letter. Need to reassure them that hiring me is the right choice in this letter. I dont know if they have other candidates in the interviewing process, my guess yes. Perhaps not a lot but still other candidates.


----------



## Golden Horse

Never have sent or received a thank you letter after an interview , and I have been to a few, and conducted many many more.

How many jobs have you held?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofpic

Golden Horse said:


> Never have sent or received a thank you letter after an interview , and I have been to a few, and conducted many many more.
> 
> How many jobs have you held?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ive had 6 or 7 jobs in my career.

Ive always been told a thank you letter or note/car is always recommended.


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## Remali

I've always sent a thank you note/letter. Well, when I was young, I didn't. But, after several interviews, and getting a bit older, I started to send thank you letters after interviews, I was always told it was a good idea.... and, guess what... yes, sending a thank you letter does pay off, definitely helps in landing the job.


----------



## Hoofpic

Remali said:


> I've always sent a thank you note/letter. Well, when I was young, I didn't. But, after several interviews, and getting a bit older, I started to send thank you letters after interviews, I was always told it was a good idea.... and, guess what... yes, sending a thank you letter does pay off, definitely helps in landing the job.


Same. Most people dont send thank you letters and for those who do, it makes you stand out from the rest. Its nice thanking them for their time and consideration.

I just sent the letters a few hours ago.

Not much more I can do but just wait. I tailored my thank you letter to them and pitched myself some more and assured them why Im the right candidate to go with.

It was pretty much my resume and my cover letter that got me the first interview last Friday (they really liked it) and hopefully its my thank you letter that is the final nail in getting me the job.

Crossing my fingers I get it. If so, Id imagine I would get a call in the next day or two as theyre looking to possibly start someone as soon as this Monday. 

Please, please I hope I get it. I think I will, but not going to get over confident and must continue to send out resumes tomorrow and so on.


----------



## Hoofpic

Q: Should I have sent my references to them as well? Even though they havent asked for them. I really would have loved to show them my letter thats forsure. But I dont think my work is in debate, its my convincing them that im there to stay and not as a fill in short term job. Even though I have told both the manager and owner that Im looking for long term and even though medical is a new field from what Ive worked in the past, I have a deep passion for the natural side of living.

I usually only send them if requested. 

But really, I dont think there was anymore I could have done. I sold myself as best as I could. They know my passion for health and wellness and that im into the natural side of the industry and have knowledge and experience, as well as in nutrition.

Doubt is starting to settle into my mind. I was confident I got it.


----------



## boots

I would not at this point. 

I do have three listed on the bottom of my resume, though, with a statement: "Additional references available upon request."

But I have successful friends who do not have any on their resumes, and we all work a lot.


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## jenkat86

I wouldn't have sent reference letters unless they asked for them. At my job, if someone sends us reference letters that we didn't ask for, we don't even look at them. They get shredded. 

I wouldn't worry too much, yet. There is a LOT that has to be done inside a company before someone is hired. At my company it takes, on average, 21 days from the interview to the new hire's first day. We do background checks which can take weeks in some cases. We don't know if we are hiring that person until around the 14 day mark.


----------



## Hoofpic

^ Thanks, Im glad to know I did the right thing.

Im just panicking a little bit since I found out that Im only getting $456CDN a month from EI. 20 weeks yes, but still.

I've been stuck to the computer screen over the past week just sending out resumes, researching companies, finding the HR person/ who to send it to and their direct, etc. Applying for jobs through online portals and systems/sites is just useless and a complete waste of my time since every single one of these job postings get slammed 24/7 with replies, emails and resumes. My resume would be like a small rock sitting in a pasture field. Finding and locating that small rock is pretty much the chance of my resume even being looked at, let alone contacted. 

Honestly applying through online portals and sites is completely ridiculous and IMO insulting. Its pretty much me tossing my resume in a paper shredder in hopes of it being saved.

So this is why, when I send out resumes and cover letters, it takes me a good 20 (sometimes 30) minutes to really alter and cater my cover letter to them, and do my research in finding a direct email and contact to whom to send it to. 

I really need to get back to work. Today is the 1 month mark since Ive been let go, its depressing. It is discouraging that I have only had 3 call backs out of all the resumes Ive sent out. The good news is that Im still very much in my work mentality and work groove. I wake up everyday at the same time as before (5:30am).

Im tempted to just work a crappy warehouse slave labour job. But if I do slave labour, I know 100% deep down I want it to be at a horse barn/stable.

There is a chance I could still land that barn job (I need to contact the BO at the end of this month) to see if his current new worker is going to stay or not.


----------



## Hoofpic

Jenkat, generally the longer you go without hearing back from the employer, the less likely you got the position. Especially, when they said that this position is pretty urgent in terms of it needing to be filled and theyre looking for this person to start it as early as this Monday. They also know that the longer they delay, there is the chance of that person getting offered another position elsewhere and taking that, so they lose out.

When I met the owner on Tues, he pretty much said that everyone in the office was so impressed by me that he was pretty much ready to offer me the position (I really did feel he was going to give it to me that day), but he had to dig a bit more in making sure Im the one. Also, that he needed to google me online before hiring.

This position actually reminded me of one of my past jobs, exact same situation for the employer and that they were so impressed by me, etc and I got a call back the next day offering me the job and asking for me to come in the next few days to sign papers. I think I had total 4 or 5 days notice in starting.

If I dont get a call today, I would cross this employer off my list. If they were really convinced on me, I would be starting this Monday and they would be providing me some notice, so I can go in to sign papers. The more they delay, it basically means they have doubts about me.


----------



## greentree

Are there any short courses in naturopathy that you could take, if that is where your interest lies? It may give you a leg up in the field.

You might call them and ask if the position had been filled.


----------



## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> Are there any short courses in naturopathy that you could take, if that is where your interest lies? It may give you a leg up in the field.
> 
> You might call them and ask if the position had been filled.


There are short courses, but honestly I would rather not pay since naturopathy is just one of the many things im into on the side and we all know where my main interest is. Money wise as far as me learning, my money is in the horse world.

When would you call them? Im not sure if its a good idea since they did put "no phone calls please. Only those selected will be called for an interview" on their job ad.


----------



## greentree

But you did get called for an interview.....


----------



## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> But you did get called for an interview.....


True.

How would you word it if I was to call again? Or should I email?

I dont want to seem like Im harassing them. I already did send my thank you letters.


----------



## Hoofpic

Just got an email back saying how they thanked me for coming in and my interest in the position but they went with another candidate.

It was really nice of them getting back to me. Most employers dont do this.

Oh well. On Tues, I was confident I got it but as the days went on I knew I didnt get it.

I knew was it was, its obvious that they werent 100% convinced that I was wanting to be there long term since all my previous jobs were for either large corps, or in completely different industries.


----------



## greentree

Yes, nice of them to let you know. Sorry it didn't work out.


----------



## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> Yes, nice of them to let you know. Sorry it didn't work out.


Thanks.

This is why I dont get too high when things go real good. Companies can ough la la all they want at you, say all this good stuff, and act like theyre about to hire you, but take it with a grain of salt until something actually happens.


----------



## Hoofpic

So I came across this job posting this morning, saying to myself "hmmm, its been a long time since ive done this...and I mean A LONG TIME" (like when I was in high school). That, plus my career isnt in this profession, so why would any company consider my resume right?

The job interested me because I have 2 years exp in it (bam, exactly what the job required 2 years exp) and I excelled at it because of my technical knowledge and phone etiquette. 

I wasnt going to reply to the ad, let alone create a resume and cover letter and forward it off to them, but I did because I had a lot of interest in the job.

I also found out that the job is literally a 6min drive from home. Interest went up even more.

So I fired off my resume, cover letter (with me explaining how my career is in admin, and my past tech support exp is when I was in high school, where I worked and what I did). I sent them my resume as is since I dont have a tech support resume.

Got an email just tonight from the owner saying how he would like to bring me in for an interview, not next week but the week after and that he will get in touch with me later next week when he gets back in town to set up a time for me to go in.

Sometimes you just never know right? I feel better now after getting this contact tonight.


----------



## loveduffy

you have to bat some time it is a home run


----------



## Hoofpic

loveduffy said:


> you have to bat some time it is a home run


I know, I'm just really scared especially with how bad the economy is right now. Don't get me wrong, jobs in my field are out there but there's so many unemployed people right now that sending my resume is pretty much like putting it in a paper shredder in hoping it gets saved. That's the odds of your resume even being noticed, let alone looked at. :icon_rolleyes:


----------



## Comfortably Numb

7.1% unemployment in Canada is not too bad. The eurozone has 10.5%, the EU has 9.1%.


----------



## egrogan

Have you started to expand your geographic scope yet? Your posts keep talking about being within minutes from home- that seems pretty limiting.


----------



## Hoofpic

Comfortably Numb said:


> 7.1% unemployment in Canada is not too bad. The eurozone has 10.5%, the EU has 9.1%.


Im not sure if an accurate statistic is available yet cause last year was one of the worst years in Alberta for layoffs, but Im almost certain that Alberta usually has one of the lowest (if not the lowest) unemployment rates in the world and I think its usually around 3 or 4%. I could be wrong though.


----------



## Hoofpic

egrogan said:


> Have you started to expand your geographic scope yet? Your posts keep talking about being within minutes from home- that seems pretty limiting.


Yes, Ive never limited my geographic scope. As important as a close commute to home is, its just one of the factors (benefits Id say) but not a make or break factor. Obviously with my former job, one of the reasons why I was interested in it was the fact it was only 10kms from home. Even during the winters on its worst days, I could get to work in 30mins tops. But then when we moved to the new office (25km from home) last August, I was miserable about it and dreaded the commute everyday. It was far.

Im willing to travel just about anywhere in the city, just not on the complete end, which is like a 45min commute (with no traffic). Obviously, the pay and the job itself are factors. If the job is something I really want and the pay is really good, Im willing to travel further. Same with when working close to home, Im willing to settle for a bit less.

The closest job from home that Ive ever worked was 8 or 9 mins from home and it was a huge luxury being able to go home on your lunch break.


----------



## ChristineNJ

*Just my take on the situation*

This is the longest post that I have ever read! It takes alot of time to read this post even though I am a fast reader & skipped parts. Upon, reading the first 28 posts I thought the writer was female and was very surprised when someone said "he".

For a person who doesn't like people there were alot of posts asking for advice from people. Seems like a lack of confidence. Very insecure.....asking 3 or 4 lawyers what to do. Not asking the "boss" a direct question such as why am I being let go? Blaming it all on "being involved with horses" which had nothing to do with anything.

Perhaps consider going for counseling to get some issues resolved. Social Media & The Horse Forum is not the place to do that. As someone else stated....I hope your employer doesn't get wind of these conversations. Also, it would not be good for a new employer to read these conversations! 

Good luck with your job hunt but it may be time to consider your strengths & weaknesses before deciding on a job. You need a job that will suitable for you. Aptitude tests & Employment advice might help also.

:runninghorse2:


----------



## Hoofpic

Christine, Im not intentionally trying to blame others. I apologize if it seems that way.


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## Golden Horse

Hoofpic said:


> Christine, Im not intentionally trying to blame others. I apologize if it seems that way.


Now go back and read what Christine actually said, from my reading there is nothing there about "blaming others" 

Again you are putting an interpretation that isn't there, same as you 'think' you know what your old boss is thinking, why you didn't get hired to the new place. 

Also when reading Christines post again, and take on board the advice about counselling and aptitude testing, both very useful and sensible ideas.


----------



## Hoofpic

Golden Horse said:


> Now go back and read what Christine actually said, from my reading there is nothing there about "blaming others"
> 
> Again you are putting an interpretation that isn't there, same as you 'think' you know what your old boss is thinking, why you didn't get hired to the new place.
> 
> Also when reading Christines post again, and take on board the advice about counselling and aptitude testing, both very useful and sensible ideas.


I have been to counselling before (years ago), so Im very familiar with the experience and reconizing how I benefited from it. But right now, I just need to find a job, simple as that. I will worry about counselling later. I appreciate for mentioning it, but right now I only have one goal on my mind. Im just getting frustrated because I'm pretty much wasting 8 hours of my day everyday. I've had 4 people contact me over the past month, that is pathetic. Im starting to get really insulted, hate to say it but I am. I mean even jobs that are well below my experience and Im not even getting my resume looked at. Like I said, job hunting online is a complete waste of time. You are pretty much just tossing your resume in the shredder in hoping it will get saved (which of course it wont). Big corps? Forget it. I already know the in's and out's of applying at big corps. Not worth my time. 

My patience is starting to wear thin. Aside from the guy who contacted me last Friday wanting to book a time for an interview next week (he will contact me later this week he said), Ive had absolutely zilch. So Im going to just start applying to warehouse slave labour jobs. I dont care anymore. I am just absolute insulted right now.


----------



## greentree

I do not understand....in order to get a job in a tight market, you need to stand out from the crowd, but that requires effort that you do not feel you need to exert? 
You must have a smashingly royal degree from a prestigious university.....


----------



## Golden Horse

greentree said:


> I do not understand....in order to get a job in a tight market, you need to stand out from the crowd, but that requires effort that you do not feel you need to exert?
> You must have a smashingly royal degree from a prestigious university.....


I agree, must have outstanding qualities that we do not understand....

Sorry Hoofpic, you aren't that special, I hear that the job market in Calgary sucks right now, so you have to work extra hard to even get an interview. If this attitude towards finding a job is reflective of your attitude while you have a job, then that may speak volumes.

Obviously something is not going well, hence the suggestions for counselling, and aptitude testing. Remember that you NEED money to support your mare, so do not look as a warehouse job as a slave labour job, if it pays better than EI, it is what you need.

FWIW, twice in my life I have had to start again, first time the only thing I could get was part time shelf stacking in a local supermarket, I said "bring it on" within a year I was a supervisor, then moved up through the management ranks. Then the next time, I started as a front-line person being shouted at in a call centre, again, in less than a year I was again moving up the management ranks. You take a job, any job, and you do it the best you can, because that is what a person does, doesn't matter if it is a warehouse person, if that is what you get, that is what you do and you set out to be the best dam warehouse person you can be...


----------



## gypsygirl

You really need a better attitude. I know a lot of people looking for jobs. The ones with a good attitudes get jobs with in a few weeks. The ones with poor attitudes don't get jobs. 

Nobody is insulting you. You won't get anywhere with that sort of mindset !!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> I do not understand....in order to get a job in a tight market, you need to stand out from the crowd, but that requires effort that you do not feel you need to exert?
> You must have a smashingly royal degree from a prestigious university.....


For instance, jobs posted online. We all know its a complete waste of time because every ad gets slammed with resumes. If I apply, its like tossing a small rock into a hayfield in hoping it gets found. 

This is why I dread when these employers use online job search portals and systems that ask you a billion questions, register for this, register for that, fill our all your personal info, job history, education, then a billion more questions, then a survey, then a billion more questions, my god. I know how these internal applicant systems work. It's already been proven in many articles that these job search application portals or whatever the hell you want to call them (employer job databases is more like it) are a waste of time. Some of them take 30-60mins just to fill out. And youre just another # in the ticket line that wont get noticed.

Look up the company, sure, (I always do this), look at their facebook, whatever to find what I can about them. Try to find an HR contact to send my application to. Half of the postings dont want calls about the job. The ones who dont state this, I will call, but 99.999999999% of the time its a waste of time because the receptionist wont give out any info. "Whos calling?"....Whats this in regarding?"....uhhh. Why even bother! it is completely private and confidential and going to kill a company to give out an HR persons name or even email. OH NO! *sigh*

So I pretty much just forward my application to the best suited email that I can track down. If its "[email protected]" and thats the best I can find, then so be it. I have my cover letter to "Dear Hiring team". It was "Hiring Manager" but thats too generic, it was "To Human Resources" but again thats too generic. 

I dont just send it as is. I send it with my subject line to stand out. Most people would probably put "Resume for....". Not me, for instance say the job posting is for an Admin Asst and the company name is ABC Admin. I will put "What I can bring to ABC Admin [Admin Asst position]. A subject line that at least catches the persons eye and stands out from the inbox of 500782 other resumes. I want to give them a reason for wanting to open my email and the only way to do that is to sell yourself with an eye catching subject line because I know the company doesnt give a crap about how interested you are in the position or how you like this and that about them. All they want to know is what you can do for them and how you can make them better. I might have to come up with a better subject line though. I need them to say "Hey im going to open this one up out of the 28593 sitting in my inbox right now because this subject line caught my attention and stood out!"


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## Hoofpic

I got an interview tomorrow!!!! Just got off the phone (had a lengthy conversation) and this one sounds promising. 

Similiar position to what I had before, with another real estate firm. It's another coordinator position, but it's got some different duties and quite different in some ways vs the previous.

The manager says if I dont want to be laid off and want to grow within a company, this is the company to go with and he feels it would be a great fit for me.

Also, he is familiar with my former employer (not nessecarily in terms of knowing the staff there) but the company in general, their mission, shares in the industry etc.

He pretty much just wanted to talk about my previous job and what I did there and why I got let go. He asked if he could my former boss, and I was caught off guard and didnt know what to say....I said "I would have to check on that just because I was given a reference letter when I left". So I go in tomorrow for an interview. I will bring my ref letter with me. Say the manager still would like to call my former boss, what should I say/do?

Should I call/email my former boss tomorrow morning and see if he would accept a call from this new potential employer?


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

> Big corps? Forget it. I already know the in's and out's of applying at big corps. Not worth my time.
> 
> My patience is starting to wear thin. Aside from the guy who contacted me last Friday wanting to book a time for an interview next week (he will contact me later this week he said), I've had absolutely zilch. So Im going to just start applying to warehouse slave labour jobs. I don't care anymore. I am just absolute insulted right now.


It's not worth your time to apply at big corps? Does that mean you don't feel your work is good enough for them or you just find them overwhelming/intimidating?

Attitude and patience are all you do have right now and you are failing. Nobody owes you anything. Businesses are not obliged to reply to you, interview you or hire you, although I have more respect for the ones that bother to send a "sorry we are not taking this application further" e-mail. 

If you don't jump out as the most perfect fit for them, you don't mean anything. It is not a personal insult, even when it is disappointing to you. Some places get _hundreds _of applications, so you have to stand out to even get a second look.

Being precious about your lack of response is self defeating. Taking a 'slave labour' job when you can do better is just taking a perfectly reasonable job from someone who does need it.

It is good that you think highly of yourself, confidence is very important, but be realistic about it, because sadly, most people don't always agree. It doesn't mean your skills are not good or that you are not a good person, but it is up to you to be that 'great' person for 'that' job. If you find the 'perfect' job but it is 'too far away' - shift, you are not planted where you are.

:gallop:


----------



## Hoofpic

Well just got off the phone again and phew good news, the manager says that my reference letter will do. THANK GOD! I really didnt want to have to call my former boss up tomorrow morning asking if I could have this new potential employer call him. He would most likely NOT be ok with it since technically he and I have clearly parted ways.

I see the new potential employer early tomorrow morning and have to do a couble tests (math and another one) and he said I should do fine, its nothing super difficult and that he will make a decision on the spot. He said that he's pretty much sold on me and my qualifications but the references, tomorrows tests and of course the interview will determine his decision.

THis one does sound really promising. But I know from the last one (I was almost certain I got), to not get too high on the employers words.

Crossing my fingers. Getting my stuff ready for tomorrow's interview. 

What if when he reads my ref letter, it seals the deal in hiring me. What a valuable piece that I got from my former boss moving ahead. I still think its perhaps the most valuable piece moving forward.


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## greentree

Gosh...did he REALLY say that?? That it is not difficult and you should be fine? You must have had that deer in the headlights look , if he did. 

Hope you get the job!!


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## egrogan

Hoofpic said:


> For instance, jobs posted online. We all know its a complete waste of time because every ad gets slammed with resumes. If I apply, its like tossing a small rock into a hayfield in hoping it gets found.


That's not really true. It's actually all about including the keywords found in the job posting verbatim in your resume and cover letter. No resume will be seen by a person if it doesn't make it through the keyword scan. So if you want to get found, then you have to make sure you feed the electronic system exactly what it's asking for. If the job post says qualified candidates "must have 5 years, 2 months, and half a week of picking up small rocks in a hayfield to be considered," then you need to make sure your resume and/or cover letter include that phrase exactly.

A few pages ago when I asked about expanding your geographic search, I didn't mean looking at companies across town. I meant looking at other cities across the country, even in a different province. If you continue to struggle with local employers, you may need to get more flexible.


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## Golden Horse

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Taking a 'slave labour' job when you can do better is just taking a perfectly reasonable job from someone who does need it.


Sorry don't agree, if a person is looking for a job then any job is better than none! It is crazy advice in a hard market, when you have no job, to wait for the 'perfect' job. I was raised that you took whatever you could when life was tough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofpic

Got the job!!!!!!!! Heading back right now to put in half a day. Will provide details tonight.


----------



## Hoofpic

Couple notes.

New boss knows my former employer and former boss. Not personally but he attends the same conferences and sees him.

New boss has 3 horses himself. He runs a local pony club


----------



## egrogan

Hoofpic said:


> Couple notes.
> 
> New boss knows my former employer and former boss. Not personally but he attends the same conferences and sees him.
> 
> New boss has 3 horses himself. He runs a local pony club


Well, sounds like a happy coincidence. Hope it all works out for you.


----------



## Remali

Best news ever! Congratulations!! And, what an added bonus that your new boss is a horse owner. Happy for you, hoofpic!


----------



## Hoofpic

It took some grime work with a couple tests that took me longer than expected. I ended up being there for almost 3 hours. Had to do some puzzle sequences.He also had to check my refs so he said to just stick around.

This was forsure the longest interview ive been in. He threw some really tough questions at me. There was one point during the interview where he was pretty much ready to hire me but then he saw how many jobs i had and he was visibly in doubt. My longest job ive had was 4 years but most of my jobs have been 9 months to 1.5 years. When he saw this, he was visibly concerned and his mood all of a sudden changed. You dont know the immediate sinking feeling that I had once this happened. Its like the earth just came crashing down.

I started getting nervous in not wanting everything to go down the tubes. I immediately had to put a positive spin on it and reassure im there to stay. You can bet he asked me why I left every single one of my previous jobs and I told him. He said if he brought me on, he wants me there long term and wants to help me succeed and have us succeed and expand together. 

He said the average on his test was 7/10 and i got 6/10. Dissapointing to hear cause i was confident i aced it but he said i passed the ones most important and it wasnt an issue.

He said he has full confidence in me, can tell Im smart and was really impressed with me.

What got me the job was pretty much my former job and that I pretty much went from one real estate firm to another. He is very familiar with my old employer and has met my former boss as he will sit in on the same meeting as him at real estate conferences. I was shocked, when he told me this I said in my head "uh oh". I asked how often and he said every couple months.

What a small world!!! So its inevitable that its only the matter of time before my new boss runs into my former boss at a confernece and has a convo with my former boss at one of these conferences. It makes me a bit nervous to say the least, but I have faith in my former boss that he will not bad mouth me.

*I immediately thought, good thing i didnt burn the bridge with my old boss.* Remember how I wasnt even going to ask for one when I left? When the new boss read the ref letter, he said it is one of the best hes seen. It was most definitely a valuable piece today and I wouldnt have got the job if I didnt have one to show. He even said it himself. he absolutely 100% needed one of my refs to be at my most recent job. Remember, he initially asked me last night if he could call him. I told him I have a letter and once I said its written by my former boss, he was estatic.

He spoke very highly of my former boss saying how he is very intelligent and does what he does extremely well. I know he does and like I said, my former boss was one of the best bosses Ive ever worked for and one of the best people to learn from in life.

This new firm is a lot smaller, 50 agents vs 600 at the old one. If it wasnt for my former job, i wouldnt have landed this new one. It was the skills that i learned at my former job that got me the new one.

Wilk give more details later but the new job has higher expectations than the previous. I can tell the new boss is demanding so its tine right now for me to step up and bust it everyday on the job.

M heading back to the office right now to put in half a day today. They want to put me to work right away.

Im so happy!!!! And relieved!!!

I was planning on visiting my mare this afternoon and it sucks i no longer cant. But i have to remember, work comes first before her. No work = no mare.


----------



## Hoofpic

Thank you to everyone on here who convinced me to not burn the bridge with my former boss and to get that ref letter! THank you! I cant thank you enough. If it wasnt for that letter, I wouldnt have gotten the job today.



Remali said:


> Best news ever! Congratulations!! And, what an added bonus that your new boss is a horse owner. Happy for you, hoofpic!


Yes what are the odds of that eh? Immediately the new boss and I have a common interest - horses. 

And the fact he runs into my former boss at conferences every couple months, shows what a small world it is.



egrogan said:


> Well, sounds like a happy coincidence. Hope it all works out for you.


Thank you.

Today is the start of a new beginning from me. You're not going to see the same attitude I had on the last job or the same incosistent work ethic. I am going to bust my behind on this new job and do everything in my power to impress the new boss. There is a lot of room for growth in this new job and more potential to make more than the previous. I start off at a bit of a lower wage than the previous, but I have bonuses play in and that gives me the potential to make a lot more at this job (down the road) than the previous job. Boss said if I prove myself and really impress on the job, then I will be rewarded. Coming from a previous job who had cheapskate owners, you dont know how good that was to hear for a change. So the harder I work, the more I can make. So now I have an extra incentive to motivate me even more that I didnt have on the previosu job.

I am taking this job very seriously because I have learned my lesson and my main motivation is supporting my mare. No job = no mare unfortunately . If I want to do all the fun things I can in the horse world, I absolutely need to bust my behind on this new job/

That includes everything from dressing better, coming into work a few minutes early if I have to, staying a few minutes late isnt going to kill me. If I cant see my mare, then I cant, the job comes first, then her.


----------



## Hoofpic

3 new and immediate goals that start today.

1) SHow up to work 10mins early everyday. I start 8:30am, I get there for 8:20am. No more showing up right as I start. At my former job, EVERYONE did this. They would roll into the office exactly when they start or a minute under or over. I think it looks bad.

2) No more dashing out the door when the clock hits 4:30. If I need to stay late then so be it. I know 100% this bothered my former boss, seeing me immediately dash for the door once the clock hit 3:15.

3) A lot more extroverted! Im going to take the time to learn about others. Socialize more. Smile more. Just be more happy! There is 100% no doubt in my mind this was a big factor in my former job and one of the reasons why I was let go.

The new boss said every 3 weeks or so, he would like for the staff to get together and do some fun activities as he believes team bonding in the workplace is very important. I am looking forward to it!


----------



## Rowdyone

Yay! I'm so excited for you.


----------



## Hoofpic

Rowdyone said:


> Yay! I'm so excited for you.


Thanks. Today was a really big day for me. It had its ups and downs and my nerves were all over the place today. Glad its over.

Friend and I are going to celebrate this weekend. Dinner night out. 

I can probably relax a bit now with the job hunting, a massive weight off my shoulders. I can FINALLY get back to reading my horse books and watching warwick schiller videos - something Ive had to unfortunately put aside since I got let go. Not being able to read books because I had to send out resumes has been killing me. The past month has no been fun! Ive only been able to see my mare 6 times in the past 12 days including tonight. Will see her tomorrow night.

And yay I can finally book another followup appointment for my mare with her chiro! Ive been wanting to do this, a month after she had her first adjustment but since I got let go, I had to put it off.

It will be too bad that I can no longer see her during the daytimes in the work week. It was fun while it lasted thats forsure! So if I want to see her during the work week, its back to using the head lamp and flashlight.

Also, I think not getting the Medicial field job last week was a blessing in disguise. If I compare that position to the new one, I would much rather have the new one. I had interest in the medical field job, but not as much as the one I got today. If I took the medical one last Friday, I wouldnt have got the one today.


----------



## Hoofpic

ShirtHotTeez said:


> It's not worth your time to apply at big corps? Does that mean you don't feel your work is good enough for them or you just find them overwhelming/intimidating?
> 
> Attitude and patience are all you do have right now and you are failing. Nobody owes you anything. Businesses are not obliged to reply to you, interview you or hire you, although I have more respect for the ones that bother to send a "sorry we are not taking this application further" e-mail.
> 
> If you don't jump out as the most perfect fit for them, you don't mean anything. It is not a personal insult, even when it is disappointing to you. Some places get _hundreds _of applications, so you have to stand out to even get a second look.
> 
> Being precious about your lack of response is self defeating. Taking a 'slave labour' job when you can do better is just taking a perfectly reasonable job from someone who does need it.
> 
> It is good that you think highly of yourself, confidence is very important, but be realistic about it, because sadly, most people don't always agree. It doesn't mean your skills are not good or that you are not a good person, but it is up to you to be that 'great' person for 'that' job. If you find the 'perfect' job but it is 'too far away' - shift, you are not planted where you are.
> 
> :gallop:


I dont apply at big corps because the recruiting phase is ridiculous and way too over the top. 2, sometimes 3 interviews, going through what 3, sometimes 4 different people? Ive been down this road, trust me Ive had many interviews in my career with big corps and the whole procedure is a major PITA. I hate the runaround and I know many who dispise big corps as well. 

Ive worked for large companies (the largest corp over 2000 staff) and worked for many tiny companies. I MUCH prefer working in smaller companies for a few reasons. If im going to spend my time applying for jobs, Im always hitting up the small companies first.


----------



## anndankev

Hoofpic said:


> ...
> If I scan the papers (3 or 4) would you be willing to take a quick look for me and let me know what you think? ...





anndankev said:


> Hoofpic,
> 
> Certainly I will look over the papers, please do PM them to me. I don't know if I can be of much or any help, especially from across the border, but if I can even make one worthwhile suggestion it will be worth the effort. ...





anndankev said:


> Shake his hand, at the very least be courteous and professional.
> ...
> Don't burn any bridges.
> ...





anndankev said:


> When you talk about a reference from your boss, ask for a Letter of Reference.
> 
> Not just for him to be a reference should a prospective employer call on him.
> ...
> So there are 2 types of references, one to fill in the blanks on an application for employment the names and contact info of persons.
> 
> And the second, for your portfolio, is a Letter of Reference or Letter of Recommendation. Do not overlook asking for this written Letter. You may or may not use it at your discretion.





Hoofpic said:


> ...
> *I immediately thought, good thing i didnt burn the bridge with my old boss.* Remember how I wasnt even going to ask for one when I left? When the new boss read the ref letter, he said it is one of the best hes seen. It was most definitely a valuable piece today and I wouldnt have got the job if I didnt have one to show. He even said it himself. he absolutely 100% needed one of my refs to be at my most recent job. Remember, he initially asked me last night if he could call him. I told him I have a letter and once I said its written by my former boss, he was estatic.
> ...





Hoofpic said:


> Thank you to everyone on here who convinced me to not burn the bridge with my former boss and to get that ref letter! THank you! I cant thank you enough. If it wasnt for that letter, I wouldnt have gotten the job today.
> ...
> Thank you.
> ...
> 
> I am taking this job very seriously because I have learned my lesson and my main motivation is supporting my mare. No job = no mare ...


Well, well, well. It seems I did make one little suggestion that made a difference. 

I will pat myself on the back by way of taking your thank you personally. 

In turn I would like to thank all of the HF members who supported Hoofpic in his efforts, offered valuable suggestions, and backed me up on my suggestions as well.

As we all know by now Hoofpic needs consistency and repetition for anything to sink in. LOL


----------



## Remali

You have earned a nice dinner out with friends, and to be able to relax now and enjoy your hobbies! I know how tough job hunting can be (I also had a lot of jobs in my past), it's easy for others to sit in front of their computers and criticize how you are doing things, but you know that saying... walk a mile in my shoes. Good job, hoofpic!


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## Comfortably Numb

Hoofpic said:


> ...the new boss...


Is apparently a very good interviewer - based on your description of the interview. 

Good luck with the job!


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## carshon

Congratulations Hoofpic! I applaud your new thinking and hope it works out for you.

As a word of caution - do not get caught up in the fact that your new boss is a horse owner. He may want to talk horses now and again but do not initiate or expect it. For many work stays and work and leisure activities are for after work.


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## Hoofpic

Im a bit stressed out right now, honestly thought i was going to get fired 3 hours into my first day. HOLY JUMPIN!!!!

Theres already one lady I DO NOT like! Sorry but do not toss a project on my desk on my first day and demand foe it to be done as quick as i can. I TOLD HER, ITS MY FIRST DAY!!! Tried asking her for help and she was annoyed. Its my first day, im learning, im not going to get up to max speed on my first day. do not like her attitude! I ask questions, alot, nothing wrong with that.

boss saw that I needed clarification and came over to help. Ever since he took the time to explain things well, smooth sailing. I knew exactly what I needed to do. 

Will explain more later.


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## anndankev

So this is your first day on a new job and you are at work posting on HF?


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## Golden Horse

PMA Hoofpic, Positive Mental Attitude, do not be making decisions about people on day one....add that to your list of things that will be different. No you won't like everyone, but you don't know anything about this lady yet....give everyone a chance, same as you expect them to give you one. There are few perfect jobs, most are a mix of good and bad, and so are the people that work there.


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## Golden Horse

anndankev said:


> So this is your first day on a new job and you are at work posting on HF?


I am sure he is posting from his personal device during his lunch break, not from a work machine, and certainly not in work time


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## ChristineNJ

:confused_color:Hoofpic........I have a question. You are working in a Real Estate Office and you don't have a Real Estate License?? Just wondering what your job duties are? I have a Real Estate License and previously worked in a Real Estate Office and everyone had a Real Estate License, even the Manager who started out as an Agent then got his Broker license. So what are you tasked to do??? Can't imagine what your job is???


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## Hoofpic

.im stressed. Worst first day ever. Having doubts if this is the guy i want to work for.

Need to see my mare tonight so i can cry


----------



## Speed Racer

Are you sure you're a guy? I've never once heard a man say he was going to leave work and cry because his day was stressful. 

You don't seem to have the ability to stick with anything unless it goes great all the time. Life isn't like that and mature, rational adults know that work is going to sometimes be frustrating, and there will be personality conflicts.

If you can't handle it after just the first day, you'll never make anything of yourself. Quitting when you've just started is immature and short sighted.

If you're as exhausting in person as you are online, no wonder you can't keep a job. Trust me, it's you, not them.


----------



## Hoofpic

Going to see my mare after I post this but just wanted to get some advice.

This was easily the most stressful and worst first day on a job in my life! Nothing even comes close.

I am not a quitter but I did not get a good impression at all today. I am second guessing if he is the guy I want to work for. Why? Read on.

First off, that one realtor isnt an issue to me. Yes she got on my case because I was asking questions and she was extremely demanding within seconds of meeting her even though she knew it was my first day on the job.

What is making me question whether this is the guy I want to work for is because what I experienced, heard and saw today was dissapointing to say the least.

First off, I will get this off my chest right off the bat. The new boss is completely different from my former boss. I miss my former boss and today really made me think of him. Sorry, but I couldnt help it. It immediately made me think of how good of a person he was to work for. He was extremely nice, patient, so understanding, compassionate and accomodating.

The new boss is NOT a patient person. I dont know him yet but I can already tell, that he is a very impatient person. 

What am I doing at the new job? I am their marketing coordinator and I do a bunch of little jobs here and there but my primary task is banging out feature sheets for the realtors for their listed homes. 

Going by the hell that I experienced today, its all about getting it out as fast as you can. I already know the new boss is not an understanding guy and all he cares about is getting it out as fast as I can, and by what he considers acceptable.

It was my first day on the job. How does he expect me to get right up to speed on my first day! Im settling in. Im being shown stuff here and there by the receptionist/Conveyance girl. 

OMG, I dont know what to say right now. I just dont.

I was given a feature sheet this morning to not do but update and make corrections. One of the female realtors gave it to me. Unfortunately when she explained things I had to ask her quite a few questions and get some clarification. She was annoyed and didnt seem to want to help me. 

The guys have to understand that even though I know the program in which we use to build and work with these feature sheets, they have to understand it is my first day on the job!!!!! Im getting used to their branding, policies, guidelines. You honestly cant expect to just give me a project and tell me to do 100 things to it (cause thats what she literally did), as she did markups on it. And expect for me to not have questions or stumble here and there.

My boss expected me to bang it out as fast as the girl who got fired last week who was doing my job. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!

How do I know? Cause about 1.5hrs later after I just started the project, he came to me asking what was taking so long. He was clearly visibly upset and this is when he pulled me aside to go over things in what exactly he wants done. This while of course he was doing messy sketches and corrections to the printouts and his writing is terrible! As Im going along I am confirming each step with him so that I dont get lost. 

First of all, when I learn new things, you need to go slow. Trust me, I pick up my pace alright but not right away!!!!! I will jsut get confused!

My boss did explain things better than the previous girl but he was still a bit confusing to understand on certain things.

So I got to it again, and all he said was I need it done asap and send him a draft of the first page when done. I did that.

He took a look at it and got upset because I forgot one thing and a couple things that he wasnt happy with. So he said to correct it and get it done. I think what really bothers me is the way/tone of voice when he says this. He has this cocky arrogant ora about him. He is so different from my former boss its not even funny. My former boss was very positive and patient and understanding. The new one I can tell has that arrogance and some hostility inside him. First day and hes already showed it to me!

One of the best qualities my former boss had, was that when I would make a mistake or need to correct something, I was always able to confirm what he just told me right back to him and he will listen and confirm with me whether Im correct. I tried doing it to the new boss and wanna know what he said to me "I dont just, care get it done!" Instant RED FLAG popped up in my mind. It wasnt just what he said but how he said it. Again its my first day on the job!

So throughout the afternoon he checked up on me a couple more times to see how it was coming along. He said its taken me way too long and that he needs it done before I go home. I ended up staying 30mins late (of course no pay). This immediately told me that I need to work as fast as I can on this job because thats what the boss wants, fast fast fast. Trust me I can work fast, but you have to be reasonable come on. 

So he left and was visibly upset that I took almost all day to finish it. 

it of course didnt help that the computer kept crashing throughout the day and really slowed me down. I told my boss and he acted as if i was making it up "What? this computer never crashes....blah blah blah"

But the trick was that I was suppose to be saving my files to the desktop and not the server. Work from the desktop, then upload after when im done to the server. How was I suppose to know this?!!!!! AM I god? The receptionist/conveyance girl stuck up for me and said that my computer does infact act up quite a bit. Once I started working off the desktop, all the computer problems went away.

Heres tip #1 for the new boss. If you want me to work like a robot, get me a fast and competant computer that can keep up with me. Its not me, cause trust me my former boss has seen first hand how fast I can work and how well I can multitask. I have to say I was insulted when he acted as if I was making things up.

Just the whole day was a complete disaster. The fact he expects me to just jump right into the job and throw me projects and wants me to get to my max speed right away is unfair.

I can tell you right now that I know he is not a patient person and I dont see him as the person who would take the time to sit down with me to explain stuff. I think Im on a short leash, I really do. When he first came up to me this morning and got upset at me cause I was taking too long to get it done, I really did think he was going to let me go.

His words "this is taking way too long and we are losing money".


----------



## greentree

Hoofpic, his livelihood depends on getting that stuff out ASAP...he hired you because he thought you had been in the RE biz, and understood the urgency. 

Sorry you had a bad day.


----------



## Golden Horse

You sold yourself as being capable of doing the job, now man up and do it, or dos you lie to get the role, or can you do the job? Half hour without pay is nothing, look at is an investing in your future. Let's be honest most first days are daunting, you either fight or roll over, your choice


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Oh dear


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

oh, and congratulations for getting the job.

now it's up to you to make it better than the last one.

you don't have to like everyone, but be scrupulously polite and pleasant to them. Certainly until you know them much better. Even if it is only in your own interest.


----------



## Darrin

Take several deep breaths and calm down a bad first day isn't the end of the world or your job.

Give yourself time to fit into the job and see how things are going to shake out. Not only do you need to learn the new company, the new company needs to learn you. Expect at least 2-4 weeks just to start feeling comfortable as you walk in the front door. After a month you'll better know the ropes and start feeling more comfortable. The next 5 months will polish you up on exactly how your new company runs. If after 6 months you still don't feel like you fit in then start putting out feelers.

Let me caution you on one thing if you just up and quit. Speaking from experience, every business out there is acutally a very small world unto itself. What this means is no one actually knows everyone but they likely know someone who knows someone. Number one rule is never burn your bridges and quitting after only a couple days on the job is certainly torching down one of your bridges. Your current boss not only talks to your old boss but he also talks to other company owners. If you don't give the job an honest chance then you can bet word will get out. Quitting down the road because the job isn't a good fit for you will not have the same impact as quitting by the end of the week.


----------



## Hoofpic

Darrin said:


> Take several deep breaths and calm down a bad first day isn't the end of the world or your job.
> 
> Give yourself time to fit into the job and see how things are going to shake out. Not only do you need to learn the new company, the new company needs to learn you. Expect at least 2-4 weeks just to start feeling comfortable as you walk in the front door. After a month you'll better know the ropes and start feeling more comfortable. The next 5 months will polish you up on exactly how your new company runs. If after 6 months you still don't feel like you fit in then start putting out feelers.
> 
> Let me caution you on one thing if you just up and quit. Speaking from experience, every business out there is acutally a very small world unto itself. What this means is no one actually knows everyone but they likely know someone who knows someone. Number one rule is never burn your bridges and quitting after only a couple days on the job is certainly torching down one of your bridges. Your current boss not only talks to your old boss but he also talks to other company owners. If you don't give the job an honest chance then you can bet word will get out. Quitting down the road because the job isn't a good fit for you will not have the same impact as quitting by the end of the week.


Im not going to quit, Im not giving up and will make this work. Its just Ive never worked a first day at a job like this before where I was expected to just carry on from where the last person left off. Dont get me wrong, I dont know what pace the former person worked at (I will eventually find out how long it would take her to bang out these feature sheets on average) but I do know why she was fired cause the boss told me in the interview. This was very vital information to know cause I know not to cause the same disturbance.

Its a big change from my former boss who was very patient, very accepting and one of the best people ive ever worked for. Its just really unfortunate I took that for granted and it costed me. When I started that job, the first week he literally came in super early so he can train me and sit with me for 4, 5, 6 hours a day. He gave me my fob, my email, my login in, helped me get me settled in comfortably etc. The first few days, even the first week wasnt about acing everything and getting it completed. It was about getting settled in and familiar with the company, the branding, foundation, history, mission, etc. 

I remember the first day I started, he gave me some jobs to do and he even offered to finish the tasks that I started in his own time at home that same night. Why? Because he wanted me to get things down pat and didnt put any pressure on me. He did an absolutely amazing job in getting me settled in, training me, etc. I really do miss working for him. He was one of the coolest bosses ive ever had. He was so supportive.

At this new job, Im more worried about me not being given a fair shake and knowing Im already on a short leash makes me a bit uncomfortable. Its already twice so far where I honestly thought I was going to be fired. Yesterday and today. You know what makes me think Im on a short leash? I just know it. I have to get used to working with my new boss and his much different demeanour. But after today, there will be no transition time. Its right now on the highway. 1) Boss hasnt given me any employment papers yet to sign, saying that Im working for them. And 2) his desk is stacked with resumes and he has resumes spread all over the place.

So I need to go in tomorrow and tell myself that Ive been working at this company for a long time and that I absolutely need to work like a robot. Its all about speed. You can bet I will be timing myself.


----------



## Hoofpic

Golden Horse said:


> You sold yourself as being capable of doing the job, now man up and do it, or dos you lie to get the role, or can you do the job? Half hour without pay is nothing, look at is an investing in your future. Let's be honest most first days are daunting, you either fight or roll over, your choice


Trust me, I can do the job. But Im human and like most people I need a bit of time to settle in with a new company and position. I dont need a lot of time, but to already be down my throat on my first day is a bit harsh IMO.

Like I said, starting tomorow I will be going in with the mentality that I have been working for this company for a long time now and Im well past the "settling in" phase. There is obviously no time or patience for me to settle in. Cause if I do then I will be let go within a week, I can gaurentee that, if not by Friday, or maybe tomorrow! I just have to be aware. The new boss has made it obvious that there is no time (not even a second) for me to spend settling in.

Thats why I said to Darrin (who said to take a deep breath and give me time to settle in). I cant settle in because there is no settling in with this company. If I do I will be fired. 

Obviously today left a really sour taste in my mouth. I will wake up tomorrow morning as if it never happened.


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## churumbeque

If you are feeling this much pressure I think it would be best if you ask for some guidance before it blows up. make sure what is truly expected so you are not guessing and worrying about it. You need to be honest so you can get help before it is too late. Also on a personal note have you ever seen a Doctor about how your mind races? I am thinking some mild medication may help you think much clearer and be more productive. When all of these things and worrys go through your mind it really effects your personality and productivity.


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## jenkat86

churumbeque said:


> If you are feeling this much pressure I think it would be best if you ask for some guidance before it blows up. make sure what is truly expected so you are not guessing and worrying about it. You need to be honest so you can get help before it is too late.


Totally agree with this. Hoofpic, I suggest that on day two (today), you go to your boss and explain to him all the thoughts you had about yesterday. Especially now that you have had a chance to "sleep on it." Explain to him that you need a little more time learning and performing. Explain to him that what you _perceive _ as his lack of patience is only stressing your out further and causing you to take longer. Be completely open and honest with him. Then ask exactly what his expectations of you are. Don't leave anything off the table because that's when you start making assumptions about things...and I think we can all agree you do that a lot. Sorry you had a bad day. I hope today is better. 

Also, may I make a suggestion? I think you should move this thread over to the "member journals" section. That way you can constantly update it, change topics and not have to worry about the thread being closed due to something like the thread losing it's point. You might ask a moderator to move it. Just a suggestion.


----------



## Hoofpic

churumbeque said:


> If you are feeling this much pressure I think it would be best if you ask for some guidance before it blows up. make sure what is truly expected so you are not guessing and worrying about it. You need to be honest so you can get help before it is too late. Also on a personal note have you ever seen a Doctor about how your mind races? I am thinking some mild medication may help you think much clearer and be more productive. When all of these things and worrys go through your mind it really effects your personality and productivity.





jenkat86 said:


> Totally agree with this. Hoofpic, I suggest that on day two (today), you go to your boss and explain to him all the thoughts you had about yesterday. Especially now that you have had a chance to "sleep on it." Explain to him that you need a little more time learning and performing. Explain to him that what you _perceive _ as his lack of patience is only stressing your out further and causing you to take longer. Be completely open and honest with him. Then ask exactly what his expectations of you are. Don't leave anything off the table because that's when you start making assumptions about things...and I think we can all agree you do that a lot. Sorry you had a bad day. I hope today is better.
> 
> Also, may I make a suggestion? I think you should move this thread over to the "member journals" section. That way you can constantly update it, change topics and not have to worry about the thread being closed due to something like the thread losing it's point. You might ask a moderator to move it. Just a suggestion.


My mind usually doesnt race like this. Its just yesterday was one of the worst days Ive had in god knows how many years. I was put on the spotlight, questioned not once but twice. Like I said, trust me I can work fast. IF this guys wants me to work fast, I will, just needed some time. And obviously im not going to be given that time so its get up to speed right away starting today or i wont last. Its as simple as that.

Going by yesterday, I know 100% he is not the patient and understanding type. My former was like that where i could ask if he had a few mins and he would say "absolutely!" and if it was 5mins or 30mins out of his day to go over stuff with me, he had no issues with it. This is what made him such an aamzing person to work for. He made anyone feel so comfortable around him, such at ease. Everyone loved being around him. I would do anything to have that job back, anything.

The new boss, I know isnt anything like this. How he sees it is, time is money. And its obvious that his money is much more imporantant than me settling in and getting a hold of the ropes, even if all I need is a day to settle in. Thats too much time!

When he said yesterday "I dont care, just get it done!!!" That right there told me that he is not the type to sit down and elaborate with me. I wasnt even asking him questions at this time, all I was doing was verifying and confirming back to him what he wanted.

I am going in this morning absolutely terrified, not knowing what today is going to be like. Saying Im terrified is a huge understatement, I am beyond scared.

When he questioned me yesterday, not once but twice that immediately popped up red flags in my mind. Questioning someone basically tells them that you do not believe them. He questioned me when I told him my PC kept freezing, it is true....I had to redo everything twice! Not my fault! And how was I suppose to know not to work off the servers? Every job Ive had that has a server, you always work off the server, not the desktop. PS - this is why you dont have crappy servers *wink*

Because when I saved, it froze and I had to do a hard shutdown. The receptionist saw it, she was a witness. But he questioned me as if I was making things up when I said the PC was acting up.

He also questioned me when I told him that the save file that I was working off of (from the previous girl in my spot) wasnt saved properly, therefore I had to work off one of her older files and a lot of stuff was missing on it so I had to take time to mock it back up. Again, I mentioned this to him but he didnt believe me. He asked the female realtor who gave me the project about where the file was and she said it was on the network in the ____ folder. It wasnt there. He asked if I deleted it. I said no, absolutely not. Then he replies "but she just printed this out last night" so it was there....you deleted it." I said "No I didnt touch it, the file wasnt even there when I started this project"

Uhhhh. Stuff like this shouldnt be put upon anyone on their first day on the job, no matter what industry it is. Im sorry but no question me on my first day and accuse me of deleting a file.

Im going in today as if yesterday never happened. Its over and done with. I never saw my boss get upset at me twice. Its over. But I am absolutely terrified.

Will update at lunch maybe (if im even still there).


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Hoofpic, please stop comparing your new boss with your old.. You've worked one day you don't know what someone's really like..


----------



## sarahfromsc

If you are at work now, get off this site until quitting time.


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## greentree

You said you worked best in a fast paced environment.....and that the old job was TOO slow...


----------



## anndankev

I can see asking for a little guidance in how this office operates. And even to ask the new boss to not be hasty in judging performance until allowing a bit of time to get accustomed to and up to speed in the new environment.

But that is about it. Jump right in.

You have been in the RE business, know what a 'feature sheet' is, what info goes on it. Just do it like you are familiar with seeing one, then turn it in asking for tweaking/marking up on how/where this office would like to see the components of it.

Consider the woman to be the lead mare, once you earn her acceptance the rest will follow suit.

You have wished for a fast paced environment. 

Stop blasting you new boss, and acclaiming your old. Previously you have blasted your old boss. You were advised to stop that, especially on a public forum. Remember these things.


----------



## Hoofpic

sarahfromsc said:


> If you are at work now, get off this site until quitting time.


I was at home and now just outside work waiting for the receptionist to get here to ket me in. I showed up 30mins early today so i can take this time to settle in a bit more. 

I will not be using the work computer for my own personal stuff.

Green and Ann: Yes fast paced was what I wanted. A day or two to at least settle in would have been nice and it was wrong for me assume i was given a free pass.

Ann: even though my old employer was in RE as well, and yes I have knowledge of the program used cause i used it on the old job. Feature sheets is new to me. It waasnt what i did on the old job and wasnt an area that i was exposed to on the last job. 

Rain: sorry i dont mean to think of the old boss.

Today is a clean slate, forgetting yesterday happened.even though im still scared out of my mind right now. Ive been doing some slow in and out breathing kn the drive to work.


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## greentree

Hey, at least they did not put you in collections...ON COMMISSION! Remember, those RE agents do not get paid unless they sell stuff...they WORK for FREE everyday until they do. 
You whine about a 1/2 hour?? IMO, everyone should HAVE to work on commission at least once... 
Yeah, if the market is down, the office is going to be TENSE.


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## Hoofpic

Im not happy. He is a serious ahole. Pardon my language. Im really uptight right now.

Hes got a serious attitude with me. He will show me stuff but if i ask him something and he gets upset. "I just said that"

What did i get myself into.

Would help if the former girl was here to train me. Im just picking up bits and pieces here and there. How am i suppose to work for him when im scared of him.


----------



## HombresArablegacy

Hoofpic said:


> Im not happy. He is a serious ahole. Pardon my language. Im really uptight right now.
> 
> Hes got a serious attitude with me. He will show me stuff but if i ask him something and he gets upset. "I just said that"
> 
> What did i get myself into.
> 
> Would help if the former girl was here to train me. Im just picking up bits and pieces here and there. How am i suppose to work for him when im scared of him.


Hmmmm, well, you got a job you were really hyped up about, it's your second day and you already hate your new boss/job. You can't go back to drawing unemployment because you accepted the job. 

So, suck it up, lose the insecurity/attitude, put on your big boy pants and deal with it. Get a grip and try to listen and learn as much as you can. It takes time to settle in to a new job.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofpic

Im feeling better now. Boss came over to chat. He was polite for the most part.

I will have to adapt to his harsh personality. I just need to make some adjustments in how i communicate with him.

He said he likes my attitude and knows im skilled and smart and has full confidence in me.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum

Wow. You wouldn't have lasted five minutes at my hotel when I first started working here. Less than a week in, I got screamed at by the GM in front of a lobby and breakfast area full of guests because she had me making high-volume room reservations by myself and no one was double-checking my work and I overbooked the hotel by accident. It was an honest mistake, but the way she reacted, you'd have thought it was literally the end of the world. Never mind that she hadn't done her due diligence by double-checking my reservations. Mind you, I'd NEVER worked in a hotel before and was still just learning the system. I didn't quit. I didn't go home and cry. I picked myself up by my bootstraps and carried on. Now, just shy of two years later, I manage that same hotel.

My advice? Suck it up, buttercup, and do the job. Doesn't matter if your boss is a jerk. Do your job and you won't have to deal with that side of him.


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## natisha

Hoofpic said:


> Im not happy. He is a serious ahole. Pardon my language. Im really uptight right now.
> 
> Hes got a serious attitude with me. He will show me stuff but if i ask him something and he gets upset. "I just said that"
> 
> What did i get myself into.
> 
> Would help if the former girl was here to train me. Im just picking up bits and pieces here and there. How am i suppose to work for him when im scared of him.


If he had "just said that" I can see how he would get a bit annoyed if you again asked. Maybe try taking notes so you don't need to repeat back?


----------



## Whinnie

Hoofpic said:


> Im not happy. He is a serious ahole. Pardon my language. Im really uptight right now.
> 
> Hes got a serious attitude with me. He will show me stuff but if i ask him something and he gets upset. "I just said that"


 ^ This doesn't surprise me. Your posting history here is much the same. Same questions asked over and over. You need to somehow get help with your verbal and written comprehension.

He is probably very frustrated that when he explains something, you are not getting it. He is not an ahole. He thought he hired someone who could do the job and understand directions.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum

Whinnie said:


> ^ This doesn't surprise me. Your posting history here is much the same. Same questions asked over and over. You need to somehow get help with your verbal and written comprehension.
> 
> He is probably very frustrated that when he explains something, you are not getting it. He is not an ahole. He thought he hired someone who could do the job and understand directions.


:clap:

EXACTLY!

Hoofpic, we're not trying to be mean. We're just being honest. There _is_ a pattern of comprehension problems with your posts. You say you're trying to be thorough, but it goes beyond that. How many times do multiple people have to say the same thing in different ways before you "get it" and can move on? 

I am your same age. I manage a 55-room hotel and am responsible for ten other employees. I welcome questions about how to perform their jobs to the best of their ability. However, if I have to tell them the same thing more than twice, especially when I have literally just told them, then there are other issues there. A lot of employers (myself included) take asking questions about something we just explained to you and making us repeat ourselves as a sign that you aren't paying attention. An inattentive employee doesn't last long. I am not a babysitter (even though I feel like it sometimes). 

I have an employee who you remind me of immensely. Only difference is that your IQ seems to be significantly higher than hers. She does not take direction well. Not meaning she gets upset. Meaning that she doesn't pay attention and so has to ask questions regarding something I just said for "clarification." I had to come up with a DETAILED checklist for her in order for her to be able to perform her job. She's 54-years-old and all she does at the hotel is run breakfast (make sure it stays stocked, cleans up afterward, that sort of thing). The other day, she asked me how I wanted her to handle an issue in the kitchen (I believe it was that we were out of syrup). I told her...and not two minutes later, she came back and said "So you want me to..." Sorry, but that's an issue for me. It would be for most employers. The only reason she's been employed here as long as she has is that she _does_ do her job. Most employers would have fired her when they realized they had to make a detailed checklist for her in order for her to do her job.


----------



## Hoofpic

DraftyAiresMum said:


> :clap:
> 
> EXACTLY!
> 
> Hoofpic, we're not trying to be mean. We're just being honest. There _is_ a pattern of comprehension problems with your posts. You say you're trying to be thorough, but it goes beyond that. How many times do multiple people have to say the same thing in different ways before you "get it" and can move on?
> 
> I am your same age. I manage a 55-room hotel and am responsible for ten other employees. I welcome questions about how to perform their jobs to the best of their ability. However, if I have to tell them the same thing more than twice, especially when I have literally just told them, then there are other issues there. A lot of employers (myself included) take asking questions about something we just explained to you and making us repeat ourselves as a sign that you aren't paying attention. An inattentive employee doesn't last long. I am not a babysitter (even though I feel like it sometimes).
> 
> I have an employee who you remind me of immensely. Only difference is that your IQ seems to be significantly higher than hers. She does not take direction well. Not meaning she gets upset. Meaning that she doesn't pay attention and so has to ask questions regarding something I just said for "clarification." I had to come up with a DETAILED checklist for her in order for her to be able to perform her job. She's 54-years-old and all she does at the hotel is run breakfast (make sure it stays stocked, cleans up afterward, that sort of thing). The other day, she asked me how I wanted her to handle an issue in the kitchen (I believe it was that we were out of syrup). I told her...and not two minutes later, she came back and said "So you want me to..." Sorry, but that's an issue for me. It would be for most employers. The only reason she's been employed here as long as she has is that she _does_ do her job. Most employers would have fired her when they realized they had to make a detailed checklist for her in order for her to do her job.


I understand where you are coming from but you have to realize that I learn a bit differently than most. Sometimes I have difficulty comprehrending information the first time so I may need it shown or told to me differently. Nothing wrong with that. Im not asking again to annoy people (thats what Whinnie is making it sound like to be). Remember I went to a learning disabled school from grades 7-12. 

My former bosses have seen me at my best and they know what im capable of. But I need to shown stuff and let me ask questions. I fully respect my former bosses who allow me to ask questions back cause it reassures with them that I know what i need to do and how to do it. Once I know, Im as good as gold. Ive had some really good compliments from some of my former bosses. One of the best ones was a former boss who said that I am extremely good at what I do. Ive done stuff that really impressed former bosses and they told me it. My former boss saw this, and a large part of me succeeding in a workplace and reaching my peak is starting with me being trained well when I first get to the job.

Once I catch on things, Im very smart and memorize and it quickly becomes verbatim for me the more I do it. My former boss saw this. He knows I have trouble comprehending directions at times. He was such a nice and understanding guy that he was probably one of a kind in that he would take the extra time to sit down with me to explain something to me differently or again if he had to. 

I know with the new boss I dont have this luxury. Its take direction from him once, no questions asked after, not even one.

Whats making it hard is that he gives me tasks to do - say to reply to an email and follow up on it, or send something out. But he wont tell or show me the most basic stuff like where the file is on the hard drive, or who im sending this stuff to. Instead Im asking because I dont know. How am I suppose to know if I dont ask and no one tells me?

Hes a take direction ONCE type of person and nothing else. One of the best benefits with my former boss was that when I started that job, [because the former person already moved on] he took the time out of his days and put his own stuff to do aside for me, to show me this and that. We sat next to each other and I would be there with my pen and paper and jot everything down. He was very patient. The new boss isnt the person to do this trust me.

So what I started doing is putting stuff (bits and pieces) together here and there and learn everything else on my own. If no one is going to show me then I need to do it myself. This guy said before he hired me that he wants to succeed with me and if he hires me, he wants me there to grow and to expand and make big money down the road. Well, I learn (like I would think anyone would) a million times faster if Im shown the basic nessecities on a new job like - how their filing structure works on the network, what are the main core responsibilities for me, what my logins are, my email.

I had to find this stuff on my own. On Tues when I started with half a day, the reception/conveyance girl showed me some stuff. They wanted me to update two feature sheets. She showed me the drive on the computer to find everything and thats it. The next day I had no clue what my email address was, I had to ask.

This girl is counted on in showing me a lot of my tasks to do, but because she wasnt the person who was in my position before, she doesnt know some of it. Its really too bad the former member got fired cause it would make a world of a difference if she was there to at least show me the fundamentals. But im learning it on my own.

I was getting fed up today cause they would tell me to do this, do that and hand me something. But yet, I dont know where im sending it to, how often we send it, wheres the working files, etc. Im learnign this myself, but if my boss sees me going through the folders on the hard drive, he doesnt like it and sees it as me wasting time. Sorry but if im coordinating projects and all these files, i need to know where stuff is on the server and how the naming system files, etc. 

I ask the reception/conveyance girl a lot of stuff and even she has been underwhelming in how unmotivated she comes across in wanting to help me. 

So ive been taking notes and writing stuff down in my notepad and taking it home at night to update some more (since if i was to spend time doing this at work, the new boss will most likely get upset).

Boss and I were just chatting a bit (random stuff) on my lunch in the lunchroom and it was nice for a change, it broke the tension I had for him and eased things up a bit. But I will need to brainstorm on what I can do and what adjustments i need to make to work for him.

Its obvious hes nothing like my former boss. I obviously will not have the freedom or support of my old job. 

Usually one starts a new job being shown the basics of the job, the company, duties etc. Not me. Im being given jobs, duties and shown tiny bits here and there. So im putting these bits and pieces together and finding out the basic duties and responsibilities out myself.

Once I get my own manual written up (which I always do on a new job, I create a manual for myself and update it as time goes on), I am fine. This will be my resource. I dont need my boss or the reception/conveyance girl to rely on. But it would be at least nice to be told all the basic information I need to know instead of having to pull scrapes here and there myself. Im getting information from the girl and its like pulling teeth.


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## Hoofpic

I will make this work but 2.5 days in to the job I would be lying if I was to say that I was impressed with how Im being shown this and that. I have been very underwhelmed.

#1 that I learned from my boss today. Dont run your mouth. WHat I mean by this is.

Today he asked me "boot up...(program name)...have you used it before?" I said, "the only time I used it was"....then he cuts me off saying "ok, so no, thats all you needed to say".

I have never ever had anyone respond to me like that with that sort of question. 

What Im getting at is, if he asks me a question, give him the most direct answer possible and if its one word answers and no sentences to so be it.

I have worked many many jobs in my life and never started a job like this, nothing even close.

Maybe I was just spoiled by my former jobs but just about every job I had before, the very first day I was being trained, thats it. Nothing else. Not just first day but second, some jobs were even weeks of training because of how in depth and complicated they were. I was able to take in all the information, I was able to jot stuff down, I was able to ask questions.

Ive always been told by just about every single one of my former bosses. 

"Asking questions is a good thing"
"You can never ask too many questions"

But obviously Im not able to ask questions at this new job, if I do its with the reception/conveyance girl and Im doing it only for the time being and not cause I find her helpful or exactly wanting to train me but because I need to pull info from her. I just need to pull enough info from her so that I have enough to start to put everything together myself.

Its not the most ideal way starting a new job, but if theyre not going to train me then I have no choice.


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## greentree

Your new boss hired you because he thought you KNEW the re biz, and did not want to train someone. IMO, all of this should have been covered BEFORE you started working....you might need to apologize. Tell him you are sorry that you did not ask all of these questions before you started.


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## ShirtHotTeez

You might be being a bit hard Greentree. I think most people would expect to have to ask some questions the first few days as things crop up, because nobody does things exactly the same.

All the same Hoofpic, you now know you don't have the support so the more you can do yourself to learn their system, the better. Maybe lunchtime or before/after work read through the files to get familiar with names and where to find things would be a good start. Obviously at some stage there will be something you need to ask, but try and figure most of it out for yourself if possible.

Meanwhile, take an interest in the people you work with, get to know a bit about them and how they tick. People think you are terrific if you listen more than you talk lol. You will have them believing you are a real people-person in no time.

:gallop:

IMO the first two weeks are the hardest, after that it is all much more familiar and you know what to do.

Hang in there, be positive, focus on where you are going. Give this job some time and your best effort, and if it doesn't look any better in six months you will be in a position to take time to find an even better job and leave in your own time.


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## Whinnie

Where did I say you were asking questions to annoy people?


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## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> Your new boss hired you because he thought you KNEW the re biz, and did not want to train someone. IMO, all of this should have been covered BEFORE you started working....you might need to apologize. Tell him you are sorry that you did not ask all of these questions before you started.


I undderstand but do you honestly expect to hire someone new to the company and not at least tell or teach them what the main core on-going responsibilities I have?

I have been shown a couple, yes, cleaning the office every Wed and Fri with the reception/Conv girl, and taking out the garbage. She also showed me where the filing was, sweep, broom, how the buzzer works, the main drive on the computer and their online site for their server. Thats it.

I will give you an example from today. Boss comes to me and says "look up Baya Rica" in your inbox and get back to them. First of all, he said it so fast I had no idea how to spell it. I didnt ask him, cause he would get mad so I spent 3 or 4mins doing searches typing in "what I thought I heard from him" Finally it came up. PHEW WHAT A RELIEF! It was a property that the email said they needed postcards sent out and were asking about a 20% discount.

I had no clue on these postcards and where they go, where they are printed, what I do with them. So I go searching in all the folders and sub folders on my computer, playing around with where is where and what is what from the previous girl working in my role. No luck. I found a folder for the property but no files. I wasted at least 6 or 7 minutes on this and was worried the boss would see me and say "whatcha workin on!"..."what are you doing?!"

So I ask the Reception/Convy girl if she knew and she said no clue. She showed absolutely zero interest in helping me out. So i go back to searching some more. 

I still havent gotten to the email yet cause im still searching for the files.

At the end of the day, I finally had enough of this BS, got my notepad and asked her 20 questions. "What do these charts on the wall mean?" How are the postcards printed, delivered etc. What are all the sources of print material i am in charge of handling, what do I do with each one and where do i send them to print?"

She was annoyed to say the least. But what am I suppose to do! Im sitting here 3pm on my 3rd day and you honestly expect me to just know this stuff and learn it from reading the wall?

For instance, yesterday she asked me to email "company name" to see if they need more newsletters. 

Great. Who is this person, what do these newsletters contain, how are they distributed, where are they printed, who do they go to? I need to know this stuff!!!!! I finally asked her it at the end of today as I was so fed up.

That female realtor from yesterday came to me today asking for a feature sheet to be updated with some pricing. I said great, ill let you know when im done. I let her know. Then she said she has more changes to do and will get back to me on it, so I said "no problem". Boss comes up to me later "what are you doing?!"...."is it done yet?...get this thing done and sent?" 

I said ____ needs more changes and im waiting for them. Then she goes "no i dont, its done". Im sitting here thinking, gee thanks for letting me know! Wheres the communication? You just told me you needed more changes and make me look bad in front of the boss like im just sitting on my butt doing nothing.


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## greentree

What I meant when I said apologize was to be proactive...go and say I apologize that I am unable to pick up on some of these tasks quickly...but I am not familiar with xxxx and do you have anyone who has time to show me? 

And when they give you a name that you are not familiar with...grab that pen and paper...would you mind spelling that, please, to make sure I get the correct address.


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## Hoofpic

greentree said:


> What I meant when I said apologize was to be proactive...go and say I apologize that I am unable to pick up on some of these tasks quickly...but I am not familiar with xxxx and do you have anyone who has time to show me?
> 
> And when they give you a name that you are not familiar with...grab that pen and paper...would you mind spelling that, please, to make sure I get the correct address.


The best person to show me a lot of my main core tasks is the former girl, but she got fired. Too bad cause all I needed was a day or two with her, even a day! I would be 100 times more ahead where I am now.

I didnt ask him how to spell Baya Rica cause I was scared he would get upset. I realy do not like the way he talks to me so I really need to keep my talking with him to a minimal.

I didnt know if it was a persons name, company, or what. I just did searches from what I recalled hearing from him. You have to remember, I dont have the luxury that I had working for my former boss. I wish I didnt take that time with him for granted cause he really was a blessing in working under.

I was talking with my sister tonight about this. She said when my boss talks to me (since he talks with arrogance and attitude) to ignore his voice and pretend as if its another person talking. He said pretend if its my former boss talking if i have to. Ignore his voice, dont let his arrogant rude attitude get to me. She says as hard as it is, I cant be intimated of him. Be confident and keep reminding myself inside that no matter what anyone will say to me or how they talk to me, it wont hurt my feelings, it wont affect me. 

I need to start doing this. Pretend as if he is another person talking in a much different tone of voice. If he wants to talk to me in a super condensending insulting flagrant voice, then dont let the tone of voice get to me!!!!


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## ChristineNJ

Yikes! When I was in Real Estate we did all the listings ourselves with no help then sent it out of the office to be put into the Multiple Listings. They sent someone to take pictures of the homes and then published all the recent listings and sent them back to us. It's all done by computer now I would imagine so are you typing the Real Estate listings into the computer? Who is taking the pictures of the homes that are listed? What is a feature sheet? If you have an inbox is it in the computer or on your desk? How are you supposed to send postcards if you don't know where they are or why you are sending them? Don't you have to ask if the 20% needs to be authorized? Why are you not asking your boss these questions???? And while this is all happening don't you think that your boss is getting bad vibs from you? If you don't start asking questions I think you will be let go very soon.


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## Hoofpic

ChristineNJ said:


> Yikes! When I was in Real Estate we did all the listings ourselves with no help then sent it out of the office to be put into the Multiple Listings. They sent someone to take pictures of the homes and then published all the recent listings and sent them back to us. It's all done by computer now I would imagine so are you typing the Real Estate listings into the computer? Who is taking the pictures of the homes that are listed? What is a feature sheet? If you have an inbox is it in the computer or on your desk? How are you supposed to send postcards if you don't know where they are or why you are sending them? Don't you have to ask if the 20% needs to be authorized? Why are you not asking your boss these questions???? And while this is all happening don't you think that your boss is getting bad vibs from you? If you don't start asking questions I think you will be let go very soon.


I am always a firm believer that no question is a dumb question and a worker who asks questions on the new job is a good sign because they are wanting to learn and wanting to do things right. You really cannot ask too many questions. Even the med job from last week where I had the interviews at said it (man do I now wish I got that job instead of this one). The whole office environment there is just so much more positive.

I am not asking him questions because he's getting upset and giving me serious attitude replying back. Its his tone of voice that really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I really dislike when people talk to me with serious attitude cause its a major sign of disrespect. 

This morning when he got in, he quickly showed me how to do something. I could clearly tell that he was being very impatient because he would show me where to go but I couldnt really jot it down. Thankfully it wasnt many steps and I remembered it and after we finished doing what we were doing and he left, I immediately wrote it all down. This is not how it should be! I should be allowed to write it down as we go along. But I know he doesnt have the patience to allow me to do this which is really unfortunate. I dont think Ive ever worked for any boss who has not allowed me to do this. 

He wanted a map screen shot redone. Yesterday when I was making the maps, he clearly said to me that he wants me to label a few shops that are near the location we are pointing out. I did this. 

This morning when he saw the draft I sent him, he got upset and said no alleys!!! He never told me no alleys are allowed to be in the screenshot, how was I suppose to know? Then he said, take off the label for the outside main road. I said I didnt know. Then he goes "I just said, "take off memorial!!!!!!" (name of the road). Im sitting there like ok, relax. No need to get all upset and be an ahole about it. Im all nervous all of a sudden.

Now do you know why Im very selective and hesistant on asking him questions? Can you blame me? Hes already lashed out every day that ive been there so far.

I really am confused on getting a feel for this guy. At times he does seem like a somewhat nice person, and other times he is a total ahole with some serious attitude. And from what ive noticed its only me!


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## Hoofpic

He said to me again today "I know its only your 3rd day but you need to focus....you get distracted easily?" 

Huh? What makes you think that?! Excuse me?! Its called me settling in. Cause im not up to max speed right away, means im not focused? I was a bit taken back by this comment and just pretended as if it never even came out of his mouth.

Then later he goes "Focus...I like your attitude, I know youre smart...I have confidence in you"....."Think about making money"

And its really unfortunate that he times and clock watches, that includes lunch breaks. Ive worked for a couple clock watcher bosses before who time and watch their staff like a hawk and I dont have very kind words for them. I would never do this to my staff cause it basically suffocates them and no one wants to be monitored all day. IMO, it never makes a comfortable and positively spirited work environment if you are going to clock watch your staffs lunches and how long they take to do stuff all day.

Was finishing my lunch and headed back to my desk. He was on my computer with another female realtor going over something so I decided to just head back to the kitchen and eat a bit more until they were done.

10mins later he comes into the kitchen and said "cmon dude, get going...you only have a 30min lunch"

I said "I know but I was out there and saw that you two were using my computer so I didnt want to disrupt you guys"

He said "well you should have been out there, i was going over stuff that you should have listened to".

And how was I suppose to know this? Am I a mind reader? I can gaurentee you that if someone was to walk back to their desk and see two other people using it, that their original thought is that they are working or discussing something and people walking by should mind their own business.

But I guess its my fault cause I should have read their minds that they were going over stuff that i should be listening to without them even telling me "hey ___, we are going over this and that, come listen in".


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## Hoofpic

Annandkev, I never cancelled my EI. I havent received my first one yet, (will be in 2 weeks at most id say), I was smart. I will only cancel them until I know I found a job that is good to go.

There is also a couple new people coming on board. One part timer, doing exactly what im doing and one f/t admin asst. They are still interviewing and Im hoping they hire two new bodies ASAP.

Why? It could lighten up the mood in the office and the boss and the reception/conv girl would have two other people to teach (or more like not teach but just demand). So im curious as to how this is all going to shake down. My guess is that i wouldnt be surprised if 2 new people are brought in next week. The sooner the better IMO.


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## Golden Horse

Hoofpic said:


> He said to me again today "I know its only your 3rd day but you need to focus....you get distracted easily?"
> 
> Huh? What makes you think that?! Excuse me?! Its called me settling in. Cause im not up to max speed right away, means im not focused? I was a bit taken back by this comment and just pretended as if it never even came out of his mouth.
> 
> Then later he goes "Focus...I like your attitude, I know youre smart...I have confidence in you"....."Think about making money"
> 
> And its really unfortunate that he times and clock watches, that includes lunch breaks. Ive worked for a couple clock watcher bosses before who time and watch their staff like a hawk and I dont have very kind words for them. I would never do this to my staff cause it basically suffocates them and no one wants to be monitored all day. IMO, it never makes a comfortable and positively spirited work environment if you are going to clock watch your staffs lunches and how long they take to do stuff all day.
> 
> Was finishing my lunch and headed back to my desk. He was on my computer with another female realtor going over something so I decided to just head back to the kitchen and eat a bit more until they were done.
> 
> 10mins later he comes into the kitchen and said "cmon dude, get going...you only have a 30min lunch"
> 
> I said "I know but I was out there and saw that you two were using my computer so I didnt want to disrupt you guys"
> 
> He said "well you should have been out there, i was going over stuff that you should have listened to".
> 
> And how was I suppose to know this? Am I a mind reader? I can gaurentee you that if someone was to walk back to their desk and see two other people using it, that their original thought is that they are working or discussing something and people walking by should mind their own business.
> 
> But I guess its my fault cause I should have read their minds that they were going over stuff that i should be listening to without them even telling me "hey ___, we are going over this and that, come listen in".


Two things, clock watching works both ways and you were a clock watcher to the minute at your last job, not a minute more than you were paid for.

30 mins for lunch, lunch is done, you go back to your station, you speak to the people at your desk...you don't go hang out in the kitchen.


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## Hoofpic

Golden Horse said:


> Two things, clock watching works both ways and you were a clock watcher to the minute at your last job, not a minute more than you were paid for.
> 
> 30 mins for lunch, lunch is done, you go back to your station, you speak to the people at your desk...you don't go hang out in the kitchen.


I was a clock watcher because I got bored on the last job. I didnt choose to clock watch by choice. Obviously I dont want to cause the days drag on.
Most people when they get bored, their natural reaction is to check the clock.

How am I suppose to speak with them when them two were going over something on the computer? I dont like to interupt people.
Maybe Im just wierd cause this would happen all the time at my former job (at the old office where my former boss and I shared an office), I would often go back to our office and would see managers in there talking with my former boss. Door closed, sometimes not. 

I would ALWAYS mind my own business and go somewhere else until theyre done. My former boss even said that he appreciated me doing this because it was me respecting his privacy. Its better than me just barging in being told to leave until theyre done.

My point is, I did absolutely nothing wrong by going back to the kitchen.


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## Rainaisabelle

Hoofpic, yes you did. Your lunch break is 30minutes then you go back to your station. If they didn't want to be interrupted they would have told you so. 

You could have hung back rather then going back to eat.


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## Golden Horse

Rainaisabelle said:


> Hoofpic, yes you did. Your lunch break is 30minutes then you go back to your station. If they didn't want to be interrupted they would have told you so.
> 
> You could have hung back rather then going back to eat.


Totally agree. Hoof pic you WERE wrong, your work station, time to go to work, you go up and say "Do you need my computer for long?" Or "do I need to be in on this" something, anything, just going into the kitchen was a very poor decision.


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## franknbeans

I can't believe this thread is still alive……..Really? Op-spend less time on here, and more time looking. Some people have to relocate just to find work. Keep that in mind. You cannot be closed to opportunities, no matter where they are. Now go find your way……;-)


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## Rainaisabelle

franknbeans said:


> I can't believe this thread is still alive……..Really? Op-spend less time on here, and more time looking. Some people have to relocate just to find work. Keep that in mind. You cannot be closed to opportunities, no matter where they are. Now go find your way……;-)



He has a new job. That is now the issue.


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## SEAmom

Look, if you feel like you can't constantly ask your boss questions, create an email and send many questions at once. That way it's already documented for both of your sakes. Yes, it's annoying constantly getting one question at a time. Yes, it's far easier to respond to many questions at one time. No, you aren't handling this new opportunity well. No, you don't have to love your boss. Yes, you really should respect him. Yes, you should've stayed at YOUR desk after your lunch. There was a reason they were using YOUR computer. If it's on YOUR computer, then it is YOUR responsibility to find out what they're doing. I don't know anyone who would see a similar situation (3rd day or not) and just walk away. No one. 

Honestly, I think your employer is getting to the point where HE'S wondering what he got HIMSELF into.


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## greentree

Brilliant, SEAmom! That is kind of what I was thinking, get stuff in writing. 

From what I hear, NB(new boss) really hates any kind of excuses. You need to learn to say "yes, Sir," and leave it at that. Is he the broker? Is this a real estate "chain" or a one owner office?

Sounds to me like NB is trying really hard to make it work, too. 

While it is true that questions are not bad, the same, or similar questions DO get frustrating, ask US how WE know that.......


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## churumbeque

Hoofpic said:


> I understand where you are coming from but you have to realize that I learn a bit differently than most. Sometimes I have difficulty comprehrending information the first time so I may need it shown or told to me differently. Nothing wrong with that. Im not asking again to annoy people (thats what Whinnie is making it sound like to be). Remember I went to a learning disabled school from grades 7-12.
> 
> My former bosses have seen me at my best and they know what im capable of. But I need to shown stuff and let me ask questions. I fully respect my former bosses who allow me to ask questions back cause it reassures with them that I know what i need to do and how to do it. Once I know, Im as good as gold. Ive had some really good compliments from some of my former bosses. One of the best ones was a former boss who said that I am extremely good at what I do. Ive done stuff that really impressed former bosses and they told me it. My former boss saw this, and a large part of me succeeding in a workplace and reaching my peak is starting with me being trained well when I first get to the job.
> 
> Once I catch on things, Im very smart and memorize and it quickly becomes verbatim for me the more I do it. My former boss saw this. He knows I have trouble comprehending directions at times. He was such a nice and understanding guy that he was probably one of a kind in that he would take the extra time to sit down with me to explain something to me differently or again if he had to.
> 
> I know with the new boss I dont have this luxury. Its take direction from him once, no questions asked after, not even one.
> 
> Whats making it hard is that he gives me tasks to do - say to reply to an email and follow up on it, or send something out. But he wont tell or show me the most basic stuff like where the file is on the hard drive, or who im sending this stuff to. Instead Im asking because I dont know. How am I suppose to know if I dont ask and no one tells me?
> 
> Hes a take direction ONCE type of person and nothing else. One of the best benefits with my former boss was that when I started that job, [because the former person already moved on] he took the time out of his days and put his own stuff to do aside for me, to show me this and that. We sat next to each other and I would be there with my pen and paper and jot everything down. He was very patient. The new boss isnt the person to do this trust me.
> 
> So what I started doing is putting stuff (bits and pieces) together here and there and learn everything else on my own. If no one is going to show me then I need to do it myself. This guy said before he hired me that he wants to succeed with me and if he hires me, he wants me there to grow and to expand and make big money down the road. Well, I learn (like I would think anyone would) a million times faster if Im shown the basic nessecities on a new job like - how their filing structure works on the network, what are the main core responsibilities for me, what my logins are, my email.
> 
> I had to find this stuff on my own. On Tues when I started with half a day, the reception/conveyance girl showed me some stuff. They wanted me to update two feature sheets. She showed me the drive on the computer to find everything and thats it. The next day I had no clue what my email address was, I had to ask.
> 
> This girl is counted on in showing me a lot of my tasks to do, but because she wasnt the person who was in my position before, she doesnt know some of it. Its really too bad the former member got fired cause it would make a world of a difference if she was there to at least show me the fundamentals. But im learning it on my own.
> 
> I was getting fed up today cause they would tell me to do this, do that and hand me something. But yet, I dont know where im sending it to, how often we send it, wheres the working files, etc. Im learnign this myself, but if my boss sees me going through the folders on the hard drive, he doesnt like it and sees it as me wasting time. Sorry but if im coordinating projects and all these files, i need to know where stuff is on the server and how the naming system files, etc.
> 
> I ask the reception/conveyance girl a lot of stuff and even she has been underwhelming in how unmotivated she comes across in wanting to help me.
> 
> So ive been taking notes and writing stuff down in my notepad and taking it home at night to update some more (since if i was to spend time doing this at work, the new boss will most likely get upset).
> 
> Boss and I were just chatting a bit (random stuff) on my lunch in the lunchroom and it was nice for a change, it broke the tension I had for him and eased things up a bit. But I will need to brainstorm on what I can do and what adjustments i need to make to work for him.
> 
> Its obvious hes nothing like my former boss. I obviously will not have the freedom or support of my old job.
> 
> Usually one starts a new job being shown the basics of the job, the company, duties etc. Not me. Im being given jobs, duties and shown tiny bits here and there. So im putting these bits and pieces together and finding out the basic duties and responsibilities out myself.
> 
> Once I get my own manual written up (which I always do on a new job, I create a manual for myself and update it as time goes on), I am fine. This will be my resource. I dont need my boss or the reception/conveyance girl to rely on. But it would be at least nice to be told all the basic information I need to know instead of having to pull scrapes here and there myself. Im getting information from the girl and its like pulling teeth.


i 

Most jobs I have had know one was there to train me because the position was empty. Ideally they hope someone can figure it out because either they do not have time to show you or may not know them selfs. 
I am not a computer expert but I know you can search all files to find what you are looking for. Would that help so you don't bother someone looking for a file?
I'm sure part of everyone's frustration isn't with you but more with the job not getting done because of the situation of no one to show you.


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## churumbeque

Hoofpic said:


> I undderstand but do you honestly expect to hire someone new to the company and not at least tell or teach them what the main core on-going responsibilities I have?
> 
> I have been shown a couple, yes, cleaning the office every Wed and Fri with the reception/Conv girl, and taking out the garbage. She also showed me where the filing was, sweep, broom, how the buzzer works, the main drive on the computer and their online site for their server. Thats it.
> 
> I will give you an example from today. Boss comes to me and says "look up Baya Rica" in your inbox and get back to them. First of all, he said it so fast I had no idea how to spell it. I didnt ask him, cause he would get mad so I spent 3 or 4mins doing searches typing in "what I thought I heard from him" Finally it came up. PHEW WHAT A RELIEF! It was a property that the email said they needed postcards sent out and were asking about a 20% discount.
> 
> I had no clue on these postcards and where they go, where they are printed, what I do with them. So I go searching in all the folders and sub folders on my computer, playing around with where is where and what is what from the previous girl working in my role. No luck. I found a folder for the property but no files. I wasted at least 6 or 7 minutes on this and was worried the boss would see me and say "whatcha workin on!"..."what are you doing?!"
> 
> So I ask the Reception/Convy girl if she knew and she said no clue. She showed absolutely zero interest in helping me out. So i go back to searching some more.
> 
> I still havent gotten to the email yet cause im still searching for the files.
> 
> At the end of the day, I finally had enough of this BS, got my notepad and asked her 20 questions. "What do these charts on the wall mean?" How are the postcards printed, delivered etc. What are all the sources of print material i am in charge of handling, what do I do with each one and where do i send them to print?"
> 
> She was annoyed to say the least. But what am I suppose to do! Im sitting here 3pm on my 3rd day and you honestly expect me to just know this stuff and learn it from reading the wall?
> 
> For instance, yesterday she asked me to email "company name" to see if they need more newsletters.
> 
> Great. Who is this person, what do these newsletters contain, how are they distributed, where are they printed, who do they go to? I need to know this stuff!!!!! I finally asked her it at the end of today as I was so fed up.
> 
> That female realtor from yesterday came to me today asking for a feature sheet to be updated with some pricing. I said great, ill let you know when im done. I let her know. Then she said she has more changes to do and will get back to me on it, so I said "no problem". Boss comes up to me later "what are you doing?!"...."is it done yet?...get this thing done and sent?"
> 
> I said ____ needs more changes and im waiting for them. Then she goes "no i dont, its done". Im sitting here thinking, gee thanks for letting me know! Wheres the communication? You just told me you needed more changes and make me look bad in front of the boss like im just sitting on my butt doing nothing.


I think you have some legitimate questions and things no one should be expected to know. These questions you need to ask your boss. I would ask him who he would like you to ask for more information. If that person isn't helpful then tell him.


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## Rainaisabelle

I don't like how no one is around to show Hoofpic what to do although he has had a job in real estate before everything could be done differently. 

But I don't like all the trash talking and excuses.


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## Hoofpic

SEAmom said:


> Look, if you feel like you can't constantly ask your boss questions, create an email and send many questions at once. That way it's already documented for both of your sakes. Yes, it's annoying constantly getting one question at a time. Yes, it's far easier to respond to many questions at one time. No, you aren't handling this new opportunity well. No, you don't have to love your boss. Yes, you really should respect him. Yes, you should've stayed at YOUR desk after your lunch. There was a reason they were using YOUR computer. If it's on YOUR computer, then it is YOUR responsibility to find out what they're doing. I don't know anyone who would see a similar situation (3rd day or not) and just walk away. No one.
> 
> Honestly, I think your employer is getting to the point where HE'S wondering what he got HIMSELF into.


I will do that suggestion thank you. EMAIL HIM THE QUESTIONS I HAVE. But I will still try my best to figure all the bits here and there and connect the dots. THANK YOU FOR THIS SUGGESTION.

I created a training manual for myself last night and printed it out. Will update in the notepad throughout each day and transfer it to the print out at night for the next day.


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## Hoofpic

churumbeque said:


> i
> 
> Most jobs I have had know one was there to train me because the position was empty. Ideally they hope someone can figure it out because either they do not have time to show you or may not know them selfs.
> I am not a computer expert but I know you can search all files to find what you are looking for. Would that help so you don't bother someone looking for a file?
> I'm sure part of everyone's frustration isn't with you but more with the job not getting done because of the situation of no one to show you.


Well this is the first job ever where im getting absolutely zero support. Im left alone and have zero support except for scraping bits here and there with the reception/conv girl, which is fine. Im not happy about it but i will go about it cause this is the route im forced to take.

Training a new person (regardless of them having worked in the industry( is crtical. Each company has its own guidelines, polices for company branding, how their layout is on their materials etc. Im suppose to figure this all out on my own?

At the former job, I had to sit down with the graphic designer for a full morning before i was even allowed to touch any of their branding material. That just goes to show how not only strict they were in their branding but how much importance they put on it. How much detail and how specific the guidelines we had to follow were and we even had a "brand standards" booklet that I had to learn inside out before i was even allowed to touch any of their material. 

But as this new job, im just thrown in to it as if they dont care about their branding. Odd if you ask me. Trust me, ive been working with Adobe programs long enough in my career and working with print materials (publications, newsletters, articles etc) that I know you cannot just toss someone an 8 page feature sheet and say, update it for me. That just shows a serious lack of care of not even sitting down with them first. Not showing them how its done, but what the company regulations and specific guidelines are. Every company has it.


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## natisha

Hoofpic, do you think your learning disability is still an issue? If it is & you have to learn things a certain way maybe your boss needs to know that so at least he'll understand, maybe go out of his way a bit, maybe be a bit more patient.
If you really don't like this job or think the boss feels he made a mistake hiring you ask him to fire you for both your sakes.


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## SEAmom

As far as your feature sheet deal, you could have asked if there was a past sheet/project to use for reference. Then you have all of your questions answered with one question. If you spend 5 minutes looking for an answer and you don't find, add it to your list of questions. To spend any more time than that when someone could answer it for you is ridiculous and a complete waste of the company's money.

Lots of people begin new jobs learning the company "standards" along the way. I've been doing that for the past year. However, I know how to use the software, so the nuances aren't a big deal because I know how to do my job. Adjusting to a different way of doing things is just an adjustment, not a learning curve. With all of you experience using the same software, the markups your given *should* be enough to get you started. If you get comment that they don't like something that they marked, bring it to their attention to make sure they've changed their mind. 

Otherwise, they have things to do and don't want to spend much of it answering questions that they feel should be no-brainers or that they simply don't know the answer to because they don't do that aspect of the job. Sure they'll seem impatient, and they may well be, but they also could be in their own time crunch. I know I'm impatient and less friendly when I'm under the gun to get work done quickly. 

Considering your former employer was "slow", of course he didn't mind answering all your questions, walking you through everything step-by-step, repeating himself, etc. You wanted fast-paced, you got fast-paced, now prove you're worth the effort to your boss.


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## egrogan

Hoofpic said:


> Well this is the first job ever where im getting absolutely zero support...
> 
> Training a new person (regardless of them having worked in the industry( is crtical. Each company has its own guidelines, polices for company branding, how their layout is on their materials etc. Im suppose to figure this all out on my own?


Honestly, yes, sometimes you are just supposed to figure it all out on your own. My first professional job after grad school, I got a call from my new boss a week before my start date. His wife had gone into labor about a month early, and he was taking early paternity leave. Not only would he not be there to train me, he wanted me to start a week early _and _do a large part of his job while he was out. We were a department of two people- him and me- so there was no one else to show me what to do. I had to figure it out myself- which was probably 2/3 using existing resources and 1/3 making things up. 

I think you really have to accept that no one is going to sit next to you and tell you what to do. You're good at making assumptions- so use that to your advantage and make your best guess what about the boss or realtors might want. Accept that in doing that, you're going to get some things wrong; but if you learn from what they _don't _like, that's how they're training you (i.e., will you put alleys on a map again? I would guess not). I would collect your questions all day, and send just one email at the end of the day- do not bother your boss all day long by firing off questions.



natisha said:


> Hoofpic, do you think your learning disability is still an issue? If it is & you have to learn things a certain way maybe your boss needs to know that so at least he'll understand, maybe go out of his way a bit, maybe be a bit more patient.
> If you really don't like this job or think the boss feels he made a mistake hiring you ask him to fire you for both your sakes.


I am really wondering about this too. Did you indicate on your application that you have a disability? The things that you are asking for do sound like reasonable accomodations for someone with a disability, but if you did not identify yourself in that way upfront, your boss has no way of knowing that.


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## Hoofpic

natisha said:


> Hoofpic, do you think your learning disability is still an issue? If it is & you have to learn things a certain way maybe your boss needs to know that so at least he'll understand, maybe go out of his way a bit, maybe be a bit more patient.
> If you really don't like this job or think the boss feels he made a mistake hiring you ask him to fire you for both your sakes.


It is in some ways but for the most part im getting used to learning off completely new people.

If they were to just show me from the ground up on my first day vs throwing me stuff to do without even knowing whats what, it would be a lot better.

The best jobs ive succeeded the best at were the ones i was shown right from day one from the ground up. 
Listen i dont want to give up but id by lying if i said i didnt have a black ball at the back of my mind telling me that im just wasting my time here 

Employers have always told me, its best if a new worker asks alot of questions at first vs one who doesnt. Cause it shows theure learning and they care about learning.

If you teach someone 50 new steps and they dont ask any questions that is alarming to the person teaching. They cant gauge if theyre taking the information in well enough or not.


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## Golden Horse

I guess for me there are many issues here...we don't know how Hoofpic sold himself 

" I'm experienced, I want a fast paced environment, I can do all you need"

or

"I am familiar with this environment, but might take a couple of days to get up to speed"

Remember we only have HP's account of how it is going, not the boss, or other workers, and that may be enlightening.

Someone said earlier, HP is good at making assumptions, what we don't know is how accurate his assumptions are, and my feeling is they are often way off. Like his new boss, his personality is to be to the point, direct, no fluff, no time wasting. Doesn't necessarily mean that he is 'off' with HP, it is just the way he is.

This 'people' stuff is hard, can be harder than reading horses, the clues can be subtler.


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## elle1959

It sounds like your boss is just a jerk, to me. They are out there. Most bosses, as you said, are interested in helping you succeed and should welcome reasonable questions. One who doesn't would set off big, red flags in my mind.


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## Overread

Keep at it and keep going. Be polite every time you deal with other people in the company and write down as much information as you can that they give you. Be sure to also ask detailed questions, be ready for backing up them with information.

Writing an email is also great; you can put your thoughts down in more detail; you can ask the question and then justify it a sentence later for why you need to know it. You also have a good paper trail to relate to. 


It sounds like your new boss just hoped you'd be exactly like the last person and know how things were done leaving your boss to not have to worry about those details. However that person had the bonus of working there longer than you have and thus knew how things went. What you're in is simply the teething stage at a work place which possibly has less turn-over in staff numbers and thus hasn't got as formal a method of training and orientating new staff to some positions.


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## natisha

Overread said:


> Keep at it and keep going. Be polite every time you deal with other people in the company and write down as much information as you can that they give you. Be sure to also ask detailed questions, be ready for backing up them with information.
> 
> Writing an email is also great; you can put your thoughts down in more detail; you can ask the question and then justify it a sentence later for why you need to know it. You also have a good paper trail to relate to.
> 
> 
> It sounds like your new boss just hoped you'd be exactly like the last person and know how things were done leaving your boss to not have to worry about those details. However that person had the bonus of working there longer than you have and thus knew how things went. What you're in is simply the teething stage at a work place which possibly has less turn-over in staff numbers and thus hasn't got as formal a method of training and orientating new staff to some positions.


As the last person in that job was fired I suspect the boss didn't want someone exactly the same but we don't know why the person was fired.


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## Remali

Hoofpic said:


> I will make this work but 2.5 days in to the job I would be lying if I was to say that I was impressed with how Im being shown this and that. I have been very underwhelmed.
> 
> #1 that I learned from my boss today. Dont run your mouth. WHat I mean by this is.
> 
> Today he asked me "boot up...(program name)...have you used it before?" I said, "the only time I used it was"....then he cuts me off saying "ok, so no, thats all you needed to say".
> 
> I have never ever had anyone respond to me like that with that sort of question.
> 
> What Im getting at is, if he asks me a question, give him the most direct answer possible and if its one word answers and no sentences to so be it.
> 
> I have worked many many jobs in my life and never started a job like this, nothing even close.
> 
> Maybe I was just spoiled by my former jobs but just about every job I had before, the very first day I was being trained, thats it. Nothing else. Not just first day but second, some jobs were even weeks of training because of how in depth and complicated they were. I was able to take in all the information, I was able to jot stuff down, I was able to ask questions.
> 
> Ive always been told by just about every single one of my former bosses.
> 
> "Asking questions is a good thing"
> "You can never ask too many questions"
> 
> But obviously Im not able to ask questions at this new job, if I do its with the reception/conveyance girl and Im doing it only for the time being and not cause I find her helpful or exactly wanting to train me but because I need to pull info from her. I just need to pull enough info from her so that I have enough to start to put everything together myself.
> 
> Its not the most ideal way starting a new job, but if theyre not going to train me then I have no choice.



I've had one or two supervisors like this... they're rude and unprofessional, I sure can understand why you are feeling the way you do right now. I had one job where the training was so bad, and the supervisor so not helpful (or just never there at all), that I just moved on and went to another job. Not saying you should move on... but, I know how extremely difficult it is to learn in a hostile environment.


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## Remali

HombresArablegacy said:


> Hmmmm, well, you got a job you were really hyped up about, it's your second day and you already hate your new boss/job. You can't go back to drawing unemployment because you accepted the job.
> 
> So, suck it up, lose the insecurity/attitude, put on your big boy pants and deal with it. Get a grip and try to listen and learn as much as you can. It takes time to settle in to a new job.
> 
> Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, and I really do not mean any disrespect here.... but, yes, I agree with you, a bit harsh I would say. Working in a hostile environment is not for everyone. How do I know... been there myself. Work environments that are hostile can cause stress-related illnesses, and other things... I think maybe a little compassion goes a long way here... No one needs to suck up a crappy job in a bad environment, life is too short, and there are better jobs to be had elsewhere.


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## Rainaisabelle

This might sound rude or harsh but if you're just joining this thread go back the 46 pages you'll find compassion and then it slowly transforms to confusion and frustration. 

I don't like the boss's attitude I do agree with people in that regard BUT if this is a fast paced environment then he's probably busy. Possibly ask if you can set up an appointment to speak with him regarding the issues you are having.


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## Remali

Rainaisabelle said:


> This might sound rude or harsh but if you're just joining this thread go back the 46 pages you'll find compassion and then it slowly transforms to confusion and frustration.
> 
> I don't like the boss's attitude I do agree with people in that regard BUT if this is a fast paced environment then he's probably busy. Possibly ask if you can set up an appointment to speak with him regarding the issues you are having.


Is this directed at me? If so, please go back 46 pages and you will see I have been on this thread from the start.


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## Rainaisabelle

Also the reason it may sound harsh is because you can't take HPs word as gospel because we aren't directly in the situation. It's been said before HP can sometimes make assumptions by what he is interpreting.


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## Rainaisabelle

Remali said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> This might sound rude or harsh but if you're just joining this thread go back the 46 pages you'll find compassion and then it slowly transforms to confusion and frustration.
> 
> I don't like the boss's attitude I do agree with people in that regard BUT if this is a fast paced environment then he's probably busy. Possibly ask if you can set up an appointment to speak with him regarding the issues you are having.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this directed at me? If so, please go back 46 pages and you will see I have been on this thread from the start.
Click to expand...

Only the part about finding compassion. I think a lot of people did start out with compassion in mind.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs

All that needed saying regarding the original topic of the thread, appears to have been said. Congratulations on the new job.


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