# Nuzzling…loving or disrespectful?



## SorrelHorse

Well....My gelding does it to be disrespectful, but he's a naturally pushy horse. The nuzzling behavior can easily develop into worse, walk-all-over-you behavior if you're not careful.


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## Doe

It's really an impossible question for us to answer without seeing you and your horse together. As a new horse owner I do not know position or what level of respect you have established with your horse.

It also depends on exactly what one means by nuzzling. Its often curiousity. It can be that a horse is looking for treats. I have one particular jacket that some horses love the 'crinkly' texture of and like to rub their noses on. Similarly I know of two very head shy horses on my yard that love to lick the back of my hand or my arm. Another loves to play with the cloth toggles on my zips.

In each of these cases I know many people who would shout disrespect or danger etc. However I read each horse separately and I am confident that they understand their position. In each case they have asked and i have allowed them in also. As such, I believe these things can help the relationship and assist in trust.

For safety I would have to say listen to your mentors, but ask questions,and ultimately as time goes on you will have to learn to read your horse yourself and make your own decisions. Whatever you do remember consistency is the lifeblood of good horsemanship.


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## ScharmLily

If the horse is overly pushy or aggressive, I would not allow it. HOWEVER, I think for most horses it is fine, given that there are boundaries. I allow all 3 of mine to nuzzle me, and if they get too itchy I will just say the word "gentle" and they will back off a bit. I do think that it helps your bond to allow them in as long as they are being polite. My horses will also "groom" me with their lips as I am scratching them. This is how horses in the wild will bond, so they understand it. However, horses will also use their teeth to groom eachother, so I usually say "gentle" again if I feel that they are getting too rough. They understand this and will back off a little.

I think that with the right horse, this will help build your bond. Just be careful that you read your horse correctly, and don't allow it with certain individuals. Everything is different for each horse. For example, last winter I trained a very pushy little morgan pony. While I am normally an advocate for giving treats and allowing your horse to love on you a bit, this pony needed boundaries more than anything. Because of this, I never treated him, and certainly didn't let him push me around. I would scratch him, but it would be on my terms. This worked on him, and he seemed much happier and turned into a good little partner in a few months' time.


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## Annnie31

Doe is right, there are horses who love to lick, horses who love to nibble on different textures etc and horses who love to nuzzle are are perfectly behaved when they do so, you must just be sure your horse falls into the respectful catagorie before you ever allow it.
Our mare loves to snuggle and she will litterally put her head under my daughters arm and up against her tummy and stand there getting her forlock rubbed for however long my daughter will do it. (My daughter is in her early 30's so she is not a child) 
It has created an extra bond between them.


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## musicalmarie1

I'm not a professional, but I have a limit on head pushing. If they're not trying to push you over, or push you away, I don't think it's that big of a problem, but if he gets too aggressive then it needs to be nipped in the bud.


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## Equilove

It always makes me giggle when I see a horse wearing a bridle rub its head vigorously against its owner, and the owner says "AWW, HOW SWEET" when really the horse is using them as a human scratching post!


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## pintophile

I kind of think it all depends on what you want. If you're ok with the horse rubbing it's head on you, well, how would it learn any different?

I personally don't allow it, because I feel it shows disrespect. Plus, it's just annoying being knocked over by a "loving" head scratch.


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## Jacksmama

Personally, I think if the horse is "nuzzling" so vigorously it is moving you around it is a disrespect issue, otherwise it could very well be an affectionate thing. I would definitely discourage them rubbing on anything when they have a bit in their mouth though, they can get the bit caught and then you have a train wreck on your hands.


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## Beauseant

IMO, nuzzling and head scratching are very different. Nuzzling is a nose on your shoulder, or a lick on your neck or face, breathing in your ear type thing. 

Head scratching is a down to business, hard to stay upright contact between horse head/ears and human body.


It's kind of hard to mistake the two, In my world, anyhow.

Our OTTB nuzzles all the time, he'll nuzzle anyone who comes into his paddock.....

NEITHER of our horses, however, are allowed to rub on us. It IS disrespectful....and dangerous. Our draft brought her huge, massive head down right on my shoulder one day in an effort to rub and there was an excruciating bolt of pain, I thought my shoulder was broken. I'm not sure how much a draft's head weighs, but it is more than I do...and it hurt.

So, NO RUBBING for us.


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## Annnie31

If a horse actually pushes on you then it should always be a no. But if the horse is behaving, gentle and quiet..not a problem in my barn.
We had a so called trainer (BO) kick our mare in the mouth because she tried to graze when he was taking her out to the corral. I was so mad I moved the mare outta his barn. Good way to make a nice quiet horse head shy. She had a bruise on her gums for several weeks from his steel toe. 

There is always a healthy balance to how much we allow our horses to do and not do and they must always respect us. Very much of what we allow our horse to do has to do with her personality and the fact that she is a wonderful quiet sound and sane individual.


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## Saddlebag

If the horse moves into your space that should definitely not be allowed. But, if you move into his space.....


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## MN Tigerstripes

My horses all nuzzle me, but they do it on my terms so I don't find it disrespectful. I also use it as an opportunity to mess with their lips/mouth. Both of them came to me fairly head shy horses and I initiated the facial rubbing/nuzzling. Soda will let me do just about anything with his face/head now (in particular loves his lips being scrachted/grabbed and the inside of his ears rubbed). Lily is getting there, for a horse that had been both lip and ear twitched repeatedly she is remarkable about having her face handled.

If they cross a line (which is always the same) I back them away and the rubbing/nuzzling stops.


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## nkieffer61

I have seen horses in the fields do the same type of rubbing on each other, I have watched Mother's do it to their colt/filly. I dont think it's disrespect in those cases. So why would it be to a horse's human friend? Scharmlily is right, it depends on the way they do it and when. 
I do NOT allow him to shove me, because he can. But if I'm rubbing/scratching him, when I stop he wants to rub on me in return.


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## Horse Poor

nkieffer61 said:


> I have seen horses in the fields do the same type of rubbing on each other, I have watched Mother's do it to their colt/filly. I dont think it's disrespect in those cases. So why would it be to a horse's human friend? Scharmlily is right, it depends on the way they do it and when.
> I do NOT allow him to shove me, because he can. But if I'm rubbing/scratching him, when I stop he wants to rub on me in return.


IMHO - 

What concerns me about allowing nuzzling in this case is that your horse already has a problem with boundaries (shoves you with his head). Not only this, but when you stop "rubbing/scratching him", he demands you continue by rubbing ON you. Because of this, I would not allow nuzzling as nuzzling is leading to rubbing and rubbing is one step closer to shoving, which you do not want. In short, ALL (nuzzling/rubbing/shoving) are allowing this horse to put his head on you.


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## jessicapworkman

My mare nuzzles me as well, I agree with you (OP) it seems like a bond kind of thing when she does it. She'll gently nuzzle me when I give her a good scratch too, returning the favor as she would another horse. I actually encourage this sort of behaviour. However I also have one who about knocks me on my *** scratching his head on me, THAT is disrespect and he gets corrected for it. In my opinion you should go with your instincts. Do you feel disrespected? If not then you probably arent, if you do feel pushed around and disrespected though, then you almost certainly are. It's about you and your horse and what YOU personally feel is ok and what makes you uncomfortable. I dont think you have to reject all of her affection just because it COULD turn into shoving, if she crosses the line then correct her, if she is gentle and respectful about it, dont. She'll learn the limits of what is and isnt ok.


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## Doe

Horse Poor said:


> IMHO -
> 
> What concerns me about allowing nuzzling in this case is that your horse already has a problem with boundaries (shoves you with his head)............In short, ALL (nuzzling/rubbing/shoving) are allowing this horse to put his head on you.


Unless I have misread the post she said she doesn't allow her horse to push her.

In terms of your perspective HorsePoor, you seem to suggest that horses should not be allowed to touch you, and that if they do it is a problem? Can i ask why you think that is a problem?


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## hjracer

I think what Horse Poor was saying was not that the horses are never allowed to touch you, but, since horses _are_ very big and powerful, it is safer that you should be the one who controls this contact. As was said, "Nuzzling is leading to rubbing and rubbing is one step closer to shoving". With horses, it is always best to be very consistent with what you allow and what you don't allow. If you sometimes reprimand him and sometimes you allow it, you are only going to end up confusing your horse. In short, a horse that clearly understood his boundaries is a safer horse. There are other ways for my horse to show affection/happiness.


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## Doe

hjracer said:


> I think what Horse Poor was saying was not that the horses are never allowed to touch you, but, since horses _are_ very big and powerful, it is safer that you should be the one who controls this contact. As was said, "Nuzzling is leading to rubbing and rubbing is one step closer to shoving". With horses, it is always best to be very consistent with what you allow and what you don't allow. If you sometimes reprimand him and sometimes you allow it, you are only going to end up confusing your horse. In short, a horse that clearly understood his boundaries is a safer horse. There are other ways for my horse to show affection/happiness.


If thats the case I would certainly agree with that. Consistency with any animal often achieves more than the approach alone. Nothing confuses them or aggregates them more than inconsistency because animals by nature are not simple......they are consistent. We as humans however are typically more subject to emotional swings and hence relatively inconsistent without determined effort.

Contact should be controlled at first. As I said in my post the horses asks to come in and I allow it. However ultimately they shouldn't have to ask. For the trust to develop it's 2 sided. They know the rules and you trust them to keep them. 

People often relate to the lead horse in a herd, and in that case except following an issue other horses don't ask to come in. They just approach and if it's NOT ok they are told before they get there. Whereas I see so many trainers teaching the opposite. A subtle distinction but ultimately a significant one.


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## nkieffer61

I guess I should add that Pusher went blind 2 months ago, so we are learning all thing as if they are new. When he was bought at auction buy the man I got him from, in March 2011, he was given his name for a reason... 
Now that he is blind he tries to stay "in my bubble". Though I am learning to "treat him as a horse 1st...blind 2nd" It's working, but taking time for me to "harden" my ways with him as I feel bad for his new life. He is only 12.


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## Doe

Well in many respects that changes everything.

If a human goes blind what is their reaction? Generally to hold their arms out and feel for what's in front of them.

Horses naturally search for food with their noses. Take away their eyes and well.........wow I can never but cease in amazement how a prey animal copes with being blind, its far worse than us. A naturally constant fear of predation..... But with no sight??

Don't feel sorry for your horse however. Animals never ask for sympathy. It's not something they understand as far as I can tell. As humans we like to pity animals, put them in boxes, talk about abuse and how we rescued them. However one thing I have learned is that every animal I have worked with, was helped more by me when I treated it with understanding for it's needs, but treated it no differently than any other with the same needs. Ie take the emotion away. The past is the past. Horses live for today. Yesterday might have taught them a lesson about how to avoid pain today, but today is today, not yesterday. They do not carry baggage in the same way people do.


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## bsms

Both of my horses will sprint to the far side of the corral if I act annoyed with them. Both also like to nuzzle, usually in response to my rubbing their faces. Since a sharp word will send them away, I don't see how it is disrespectful behavior.

Rubbing: if I start rubbing my mare's face, she will sometimes rub back, pushing HARD against my hand. I press back, and she moves her head around to get all the spots, with the 'tears' area under her eyes getting the most attention. 

When I'm on the ground scratching her back, she sometimes steps forward and places her hip next to me. That is a 'request' for a butt rub - actually on top of her hip, but butt rub just seems too good a term to pass up. She will push hard against my hand, but her hind legs are pointed off to my side. A minute is about as long as I can last at the pressure she wants. When I remove my hand, she'll turn back to put her wither at my side.

Since I can, at any time, move her with a harsh sounding word, I don't see that behavior as disrespectful. And since it only lasts as long as I choose to keep my hand in place, likewise. FWIW, she hasn't tried to rub against any part of my body other than my outstretched hand.

Horses are individuals, but it helps to read their entire body language. When her hip is beside me, her head down and tilted around to look, feet pointed at an angle off away from me, ears forward, and she asks for a cigarette afterwards (OK, just joking!), that is not dominant / aggressive behavior. That is just being pals.


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