# Normal behavior while introducing two horses...



## HorseExpert (Aug 20, 2010)

Okay so, I just brought home my horse Kismet on Thursday, and I'm not sure what's normal behavior and what's not.. 

My other horse Tiger is 20 yrs old, and has been at my house for about 8 years. I've never brought a mare in with him before, but he has had two other geldings with him on and off for the last couple of years (they actually live in the pasture that borders one of Tiger's, they belong to my cousin and are not in with him now) and he was always good with them, never acted aggressive or anything.

Kismet is my 6 yr old mare that I got a month ago, and she is an extremely laid back and calm horse. 

Anyways, I figured they would be fine together, but now I'm not so sure..

He keeps charging at her with his ears pinned back, they are separated by a fence, and this morning she wheeled around and double barrel kicked the fence.. Not hard, it did nothing to the fence and I watched her for a while to make sure she wasn't sore, but I figured after that he would stop.. But he hasn't.. Any time she comes up to him he pins his ears and kind of lunges at her. She usually squeals and stomps her feet or kind of kicks out.

I'm just not sure where to go from here.. I let her out in the pasture bordering his today, and any time she would come near him he would do that. 

To me, it looks like he's trying to establish dominance over her, she acts like the submissive one. But I'm afraid to let them out together, I don't want either of them hurt. I'm not sure where to go from here.. 

I've never introduced two horses, so I just need some advice/opinions  Thank you!


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Theyre both alpha horses.

If she was the submissive horse shed run off and squat when he chased her. 

youre right- hes tryin to make her submit-- she aint havin it.


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## kiwi79 (Nov 11, 2011)

Can you run some hot tape just out from the fence on both sides to avoid any injuries while they get used to each other? May take awhile for them to settle down.


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## HorseExpert (Aug 20, 2010)

toto said:


> Theyre both alpha horses.
> 
> If she was the submissive horse shed run off and squat when he chased her.
> 
> youre right- hes tryin to make her submit-- she aint havin it.



Sorry, she does run away. I left that part out, it's been a long day  She'll usually squeal and run away, but she's stomped her feet a few times.


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## HorseExpert (Aug 20, 2010)

kiwi79 said:


> Can you run some hot tape just out from the fence on both sides to avoid any injuries while they get used to each other? May take awhile for them to settle down.


Maybe, I actually didn't think about that. This morning when she kicked at him was the only time I've seen her do it, and she usually just goes away from him.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

My mare is very dominant and will be the crap out of any new horse she meets if they don't immediately show submission upon introduction. It goes on for a day or two until everything is pretty well set in stone, then they go about their business doing horse stuff. Once in a while, someone needs a reminder of their place in the hierarchy, but meh. 

In fact, today she decided two new boarder ponies that arrived this morning needed to know their place with her. She and my other horse were separated just because they're leaving the barn tomorrow afternoon. She repeatedly charged the gate separating her from the ponies and kicked at it enough to get it completely off its hinges. (Luckily I happened to be right by when that happened). 

Conclusion: Let them figure out their herd order themselves. It might take a few days of getting to know each other and there will be bumps and bruises from it, but unless your gelding is repeatedly cornering the mare and double barreling her constantly, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## HorseExpert (Aug 20, 2010)

Poseidon said:


> My mare is very dominant and will be the crap out of any new horse she meets if they don't immediately show submission upon introduction. It goes on for a day or two until everything is pretty well set in stone, then they go about their business doing horse stuff. Once in a while, someone needs a reminder of their place in the hierarchy, but meh.
> 
> In fact, today she decided two new boarder ponies that arrived this morning needed to know their place with her. She and my other horse were separated just because they're leaving the barn tomorrow afternoon. She repeatedly charged the gate separating her from the ponies and kicked at it enough to get it completely off its hinges. (Luckily I happened to be right by when that happened).
> 
> Conclusion: Let them figure out their herd order themselves. It might take a few days of getting to know each other and there will be bumps and bruises from it, but unless your gelding is repeatedly cornering the mare and double barreling her constantly, I wouldn't worry about it.


Yeah, I'm definitely letting them work it out. I don't want to get in between them. But I just wasn't sure when to let them out together.. Some people have told me to wait a little longer, and some have told me to just do it now.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

two reasons:
1. They are deciding who will be the alpha horse, boss horse, etc.
2. it's a mare with a gelding. I think that might explain some too. Especially if the gelding hasn't really been around mares, the mare can get moody and the gelding could get upset or something.

We introduced our new horse as well. We separated the two alphas and the two bottom horses.
Chocoalte (our new horse) has always been the bottom of the totem pole, and so has golley. They both enjoy and like being on the bottom, so they got into a few squeals and rears because they both want to be on the bottom, but they dont want both of them to be the lowest of the totem pole.
lol, it was pretty funny. I can hear the conversation now...
Golley: I was here first, you be the bottom.
Chocolate: but I am new here, you be the top horse!
G: no fair I have always been the bottom!
C: but I want to be! my old pasture buddy let me be the bottom!
G: well, thats too bad... I am going to be the bottom!!!


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

amberly said:


> two reasons:
> 1. They are deciding who will be the alpha horse, boss horse, etc.
> 2. it's a mare with a gelding. I think that might explain some too. Especially if the gelding hasn't really been around mares, the mare can get moody and the gelding could get upset or something.
> 
> ...



Lol, horses dont want to be the submissive horse- theyre fighting to be alpha over one another.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

toto said:


> Lol, horses dont want to be the submissive horse- theyre fighting to be alpha over one another.


Not always true with a true submissive. My horse has never fought for that ever. He's a wuss.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

It does get tricky in close quarters, IMO.When you can turn them out in the wide open, and if there is no other "concern" (e.g., youngster w a really old guy), then they work it all out relatively quickly. In close quarters you are forced to witness them "hashing it out", and b/c of the confinement it is more dangerous for them...and you fret (at least I do). He might just want her to acknowledge and agree that he calls the shots, and she asks permission - but they can't get to that agreement (which she might gladly "sign off on") with a fence between them and need space to safely establish it.

If you can, you might try turning them out in a good sized pasture and let them work it out.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

AlexS said:


> Not always true with a true submissive. My horse has never fought for that ever. He's a wuss.


horses dont fight to be bottom horse though- they fight to be higher on the pecking order-- i agree- the more submissive horses turn away from conflict- but even with two submissive horses theres a higher ranked submissive horse on the pecking order- they cant both be the most submissive- theres always one higher than another. :thumbsup:


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Several people will say to never put mares with geldings. I disagree. For about 5 years, we've had ours together. We've just recently separated them because of our yearling stud colt and we don't want him to breed. 

Over the years, we've introduced different horses into the herd. There is always squealing, biting, kicking, and chasing off. It's normal. There has only been one time a vet was needed but that was the day after the hooves got trimmed. The "new" horse had been with the herd for a while already though. 

Sometimes scuffles will settle after a few days and sometimes it can go on for months. That new horse that needed a vet was introduced in September. Scuffles went on for months until we introduced two more horses in February. 

When we separated our mares, we left the alpha mare in the geldings because we were getting three rescue mares. When we put the alpha mare in with the other girls, there was some scuffles and challenges between the two top mares that have been together for most of 13 years. Things did settle after a day or so. 

OP, I would wait at least a few more days until they seem to settle down. Then turn them out together. There will be some more scuffles again but shouldn't last too long. I would be careful about putting wire fence between them. A kicking horse can easily get caught up in that wire. If you have a sturdy wood fence between them, they will be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

HorseExpert said:


> But I just wasn't sure when to let them out together.. Some people have told me to wait a little longer, and some have told me to just do it now.


It won't hurt anything to wait until you'll more comfortable.

Put them together for an hour while you can keep an eye on things and then separate them again. Repeat for a few days until things calm down.

Keep your betadine and neosporin handy. There are usually some scrapes involved in this process.


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## HorseExpert (Aug 20, 2010)

Well, they're acting better today, but they've changed behaviors.. Now Tiger's acting like a stud and Kismet acts like she's in heat.. Which she probably is, but Tiger hasn't ever acted that way before. He was around a mare a few years ago, but they mostly just got ridden together. They weren't kept in the same pasture.


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## SleipnirCB (Jun 5, 2012)

I moved my horse to a new place early this year. They live out in a herd of about 18 horses and all we did was let him loose with them. The BO said so long as they are running together and not pushing him into a corner, they'll all be fine. She was absolutely right! They galloped a bit and then had a nap, haha!
He was bitten and kicked a little for a few weeks, but quickly settled in with the herd. I must add though that they were introduced in a HUGE field so there was plenty of room to run and not many places to be cornered. Also, Star is a smart little guy and made sure to keep out of the nasty's way as much as possible.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

^^^ It is actually easier with horses lower on the pecking order. They are smart enough to cozy up to the "bosses" and are not seen as a threat to the order. Our bottom of the order mare (#4) eats at the round bale between #1 and #2 and they don't bother her at all. All the competative fuss is between her and #3.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SleipnirCB (Jun 5, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> ^^^ It is actually easier with horses lower on the pecking order. They are smart enough to cozy up to the "bosses" and are not seen as a threat to the order. Our bottom of the order mare (#4) eats at the round bale between #1 and #2 and they don't bother her at all. All the competative fuss is between her and #3.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly! My sweet submissive boy somehow managed to make friends with #1 (or somewhere up high) so now when they go for a drink of water, he is one of the first ones allowed to drink (as opposed to dead last when he got there).


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Yup


HorseExpert said:


> Well, they're acting better today, but they've changed behaviors.. Now Tiger's acting like a stud and Kismet acts like she's in heat.. Which she probably is, but Tiger hasn't ever acted that way before. He was around a mare a few years ago, but they mostly just got ridden together. They weren't kept in the same pasture.


Yup! And thats why most people dont keep mares with geldings..

boys will be boys-- and mares will be.. hussys! :rofl:


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## HorseExpert (Aug 20, 2010)

toto said:


> Yup
> 
> Yup! And thats why most people dont keep mares with geldings..
> 
> boys will be boys-- and mares will be.. hussys! :rofl:


Haha! Yes they will  

Now that they're doing this I'm not sure if I should even try putting them together.. I really want to because I feel like they'd be fine after a while, but I would definitely wait until she goes out of heat to do it. I may just have to separate them when she goes into heat.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Like I said, we had our mares and geldings together for years and many heat cycles. There wasn't any issues when they did go into heat. 

It may be best to wait until she cycles out but you shouldn't have to remove her every time she goes back into heat. Once they get more acquainted, they will be fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Everywhere I have been has just put new horses in with each other, no getting used to each other over the fence.

In my mind there are a few reasons for that. One is that a fence can do a fair bit of damage if its between two horses that want to get at each other. 

The other reason is that, in my opinion, it doesn't do anything. Horses work out their dynamics by interacting with each other and seeing who submits - and who doesn't. To work this out the horse needs to be able to bite and kick - and run away and be kept away. Being separated by this fence means they can't work this out, they're just more or less snarling at each other. Even if they got used to each other they would likely still go through the same thing once in the same paddock. It's just what horses do. 

So if it were me and my horses I would just put them out together and leave them to work it out.


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## Mama26kids (Nov 5, 2012)

*I'd say to let them be together*

When I first got my mare last year the guy I bought her from showed up with her and just opened the gate and led her in. There was squealing and my gelding ran around buck kicking and making noises. By the end of the day they were friends. By the end of the week they were in love and married =).

They lived together for the last year and she was definitely on top, but she was always moving him around and trying to keep him away from the hay, because she is much larger than him, but I recently leased my gelding out and put my mare in with my mini mares because she was lonely. She really seems to have a different relationship with the mares. She touches faces with them and eats very close to them and doesn't chase them off. There is more squealing going on, with 3 mares together, Squeal stomp, squeal stomp. 

and I think that my mares seeing each other for 6 months over a fence did make the first real meeting pretty easy going because they did get to know each other over the fence.


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