# Self Care boarding



## LoonWatcher (Apr 28, 2019)

It depends on where you live and what is provided (of lack of). I don't know where you are, but here, it is still around $300 a month per horse for self-care - no stall. Of course, "self care" is a subjective term and varies, but $300 still feels like getting robbed on the highway. We're kind of just in a general expensive area; a full care board with a stall is $1,000 per month, per horse....

Self care around here follows something like this: 

- The property owner supplies the land (and the most of the care of it, such as mowing, if necessary), the initial fence, shelter, water (and will top it off if it gets low), electricity, and will call the vet in an emergency. 
- The horse owner will supply everything else, such as food (hay, grain, and supplements), feedings, mucking, farrier, repair anything that the horse broke (such as a fence), cleaning the buckets, etc....


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Depends on the area. Self-care around here is around $150 (per horse) a month or so.


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

The Only thing the land owner would provide is the land itself, a very small amount of electricity and drinking water for the horses. The property has no other livestock and land owner does nothing except move round bales occasionally, once per month.


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

PoptartShop said:


> Depends on the area. Self-care around here is around $150 (per horse) a month or so.


What is included with that price for self care? Does the land owner provide the fencing and shelter? Does the land owner provide anything else?


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Ill give you some comparisons as when I bought my mare I looked at several yards and did an excel sheet. I live in London, UK so the prices are more expensive but for perspective. Basically for:

1. renting the stall
2. use of field for turnout
3. access to clean water 
4. access to "basic" electric outlets (note: would you be allowing for electric fencing etc? Direct access or would owner have to charge batter at home etc?)
5. use of muck heap (note: some yards would split the cost of collection with horse owners once every month etc)

The above would cost £40-£45 per week at it's most basic. This is with the expectation that the horse owners would poo pick the fields (important) and provide all other supplies and manual labour. Outside of poo picking it was the property owner's responsibility to ensure safe fencing and grass mowed etc.

My question to you is if you are setting up a contract in regards to grounds safety, such as appropriate and safe fencing etc. What are your liabilities as the property owner? How will you split fencing cost management etc? What if a pipe freezes and bursts? What about the muck heap? In the above costs the yard owners took that responsibility but that was a working yard. Personal property you defo wanna be thinking about these things.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I can't imagine a reason I would be interested in paying someone a monthly per horse "boarding" fee for a patch of bare land. I'd be more likely to come up with an annual land lease contract and stipulate the kinds of improvements (structures, fencing) allowed on the land. I wouldn't personally be interested in that either- why invest easily $5-10K on shelters and fencing that would be very difficult to take with you when you leave? I think this sort of arrangement for horses would be pretty unusual where I live, though I know of dairy farmers that do this for grazing land.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

A couple of things to look at if you're considering this:

- insurance for the landowner is a necessity. This could raise the price significantly.

- most owners are not going to supply fencing and shelter on their own. If they could do that, they'd buy a piece of land and do it there.

- I've never heard of this arrangement for horses. The landowner at boarding facilities supplies fencing, shelter, and facilities. Usually also includes hay, bedding, and a basic grain as well. 

- while we all want to think the horse owner will supply all care, it rarely works that way. What usually happens is that things go along swimmingly for the first few weeks. Then the owner starts skipping some things--- horses aren't fed every day. Water isn't supplied as it should be. Manure starts piling up causing odor and flies. The horses start losing weight or leaning on the fencing or get out because they're hungry and bored. An injury occurs and the owner doesn't notice. The land owner takes pity on the horses and starts caring for them himself/herself. Owner realizes someone else is feeding the horses and comes out even less. If things get bad and the authorities get involved, the land owner will often find themselves liable because the animals are on their property, thus they are in charge of providing food, water, and shelter whether the board agreement says so or not. Additionally, the land owner is liable if a horse were to escape and cause damage--- get into the neighbors garden, or be hit on the road. As the property owner, it's their responsibility to ensure animals cannot cause harm to others.

If I were to run a boarding facility, I would assume responsiblity for the horse's daily care. Not all owners are responsible, and even if they are, you still have stressed horses when some are fed at one time, some at others, some only get fed once a day, others twice or more, some are standing in dirty stalls while others are not, etc. It takes a hard heart to leave a self-care horse nickering hungrily in a dirty pen with no hay while other horses are eating because his owner had something come up at work and hasn't been out. Nope. That horse would be fed before I could sleep at night, and that defeats the whole point of self-care.... my horses right now on on a friend's property. We share cares and whoever is doing chores cares for all of the horses, not just our own. Then we know everyone is fed, happy, healthy and safe.


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

The situation is that I have been keeping my horses on my brother's land and am trying to come up with a reasonable amount to pay him for keeping them there. They are good horses, who respect fences. The only thing he has provided is access to water, some electricity for the fence charger and occasional use of the tractor to move round bales, which is no more than once a month from Oct - May. I brought the horse shelter, the shed for feed storage, all fencing materials I am using, and the feed/water troughs. Does $60 a month per horse sound reasonable.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Around here, most of the owners provide the land, fencing, water, & electricity. Depends on where you go, but the horse owners just pay for the feed/hay, & they are responsible for clean up/muck. 

My last barn was self-care, the owner paid for everything except our feed, hay, & we had to clean up after ourselves of course. We also mucked the fields, stalls, etc. They provided electricity, water & fencing. We were responsible for feeding our horses & whatnot. If there was an emergency, they could call our vet for us, but other than that...we were responsible for our horses. 

However, your case is VERY different - you would just supply the land...if the horse owner has to provide the fencing & shelter...I don't know if they'd do all that. Maybe some people would, not sure...I wouldn't personally. I'd want the fencing & shelter already there, I wouldn't want to have to put it up myself or be responsible for it. 

EDIT: Just saw your most recent post. Okay, well 60 per horse doesn't sound too expensive. I would talk to him to see what he thinks would be reasonable.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

BeckyMMiller said:


> Does $60 a month per horse sound reasonable.



How many horses are you referring to paying $60 per horse?
How much acreage are you referring to having use of?

Electricity for the water well is minimal costs but the fence charger can draw a lightening strike many have not grounded properly for and that then can travel back to the house and wreck the house panel.
Just something to be aware of....

However, it _*is*_ still the land owner responsible if a animal gets loose or hurts another, _they often get sued not you..._
It is still the land owner who pays property taxes on land he doesn't use...
If the grass/pasture is of a size that is large enough to hay...he would be offered several hundred dollars per baling here or a pretty substantial $$$ for lease of the land for the entire hay season...
My understanding is anywhere from $50 - $100+ _per acre_ is what hay men pay for a yearly contracted lease and many of them have 5 year lease with options for renewal.
Cattle grazing... easily is $100+ per acre for rich, fertile ground.
Now by me, we have a agricultural exemption for certain types of land use = huge reduction in land property costs. If you have the Ag exemption your taxes were cut by 75%...that is huge savings for those who make a living off the land..
Grazing horses *doesn't* give you that exemption.{guess how I know that!}
Depending upon your location that per acre charge could be substantially more too.
So, to me many things need a consideration before someone can just throw a number for valuation to pay...
Whether you think you provide all and do everything your horses just being on his land costs him liability just because horses are what they are and in some locations a magnet for people to want to touch, feed and just mess around with = potential problems.
I told you of these things because it is something you might want to investigate what your using that pasture land truly could mean to your family member. :|
How much is a fair price to pay...that is for you to decide and live with your decision.

:runninghorse2:....


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

First, I'd need to know how much land you're using. Then the number of horses on that land. Then the cost of insurance to keep the horses there. For instance, if you're in a 'fence them in' state, how much liability do you need to carry in case a horse gets out on a road and causes a wreck. If you're in a 'fence them out state' it's a little different but liability still attaches. To give you a true fair figure, we'd also need to know how much his electric & water run without the fencing and horses, then how much with. 

Even though he doesn't have to do a lot, just taking the tractor out and moving those round bales takes his TIME. It may not cost him much in money, but his time is worth something as is the wear & tear on the land, the tractor and so on. There's a lot more to doing boarding or land leasing (which is more what yours sounds like) than meets the eye, and the people who do it for almost nothing usually are not covering their bases. I wouldn't allow anyone to put a horse on my property for less than $200/month and I don't allow 'self care' because it usually turns out that it's only self care when it's convenient and the land owner ends up filling in when the boarder can't get there or doesn't feel like it.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

BeckyMMiller said:


> The situation is that I have been keeping my horses on my brother's land and am trying to come up with a reasonable amount to pay him for keeping them there. They are good horses, who respect fences. The only thing he has provided is access to water, some electricity for the fence charger and occasional use of the tractor to move round bales, which is no more than once a month from Oct - May. I brought the horse shelter, the shed for feed storage, all fencing materials I am using, and the feed/water troughs. Does $60 a month per horse sound reasonable.


I really don't think you should pay per horse when basically you have made all the improvements to the land. That being said, it is not clear how many horses you have, or what relative value boarding is there. 

In most cases, this situation a person pays for the use of the land, or rents the land. This is very common for cattle grazing, but used for horses and goats sometimes too. 

The cost of water and electricity have to be figured in also, as that is not as common when renting or leasing land. 

Is your brother asking for reimbursement or are you just offering? 

Lots of factors to take into consideration. 

I have been leasing land for 8 years (no relation). It is 4 acres +/- and had fencing that needed some repair (when doesn't fencing need repair lol). I paid to have a very simple barn built in two stages. It has 5 stalls, one used for hay, and a combination tack/feed room. I repair/replace fence and gates as needed and have the pasture mowed a couple of times per year. I use his water, but not his electricity. I have permission to do anything with the land as I want to, but out of curtesy I usually let the owner know what I will be building/remodeling especially if it is major. 

We live in an area where no building permits are needed in the county, so basically I can do whatever I want with the land :smile: 


Pasture boarding and/or self care boarding I have paid anywhere from $50-$125/month, but know of some in the area a tiny bit higher. The self-care usually had stalls, but not always. When I boarded, all structures and facilities were paid for. 

So in calculating what is fair to pay your brother, I would use the lowest area pasture board amount, multiplied by how many horses you have or plan to have, and a percentage removed because you pay for everything except utilities. 

Example pasture board in your area (cheapest) $60 x your number of horses (3) = $180 x 80% = $144 rounded up to maybe $150 because he helps you out sometimes. So you would offer him (in this example) $150/month for the use of the pasture, and you can then put as many or as few of animals as you want. 


This is assuming that your electricity and water rates are cheap in your area.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i pay $100 per horse for self care,


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

*boarding*



Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> First, I'd need to know how much land you're using. Then the number of horses on that land. Then the cost of insurance to keep the horses there. For instance, if you're in a 'fence them in' state, how much liability do you need to carry in case a horse gets out on a road and causes a wreck. If you're in a 'fence them out state' it's a little different but liability still attaches. To give you a true fair figure, we'd also need to know how much his electric & water run without the fencing and horses, then how much with.
> 
> Even though he doesn't have to do a lot, just taking the tractor out and moving those round bales takes his TIME. It may not cost him much in money, but his time is worth something as is the wear & tear on the land, the tractor and so on. There's a lot more to doing boarding or land leasing (which is more what yours sounds like) than meets the eye, and the people who do it for almost nothing usually are not covering their bases. I wouldn't allow anyone to put a horse on my property for less than $200/month and I don't allow 'self care' because it usually turns out that it's only self care when it's convenient and the land owner ends up filling in when the boarder can't get there or doesn't feel like it.


It is 2 horses, and I would estimate no more than 2-3 acres. He doesn't actually use the tractor, his son does, and I usually pay them $10 per time for fuel. I have brought in all fencing materials, and the shed for storage and the shelter for the horses. It is the only house on the land with no immediate neighbors, and any visitors to his house ask if they want to pet the horses. No one has asked to ride. I make sure that they aren't out on the field in winter or when the ground is very wet. I also rotate the grazing areas, so they don't become bare and usually wait until grass is pretty tall before putting them on it, which also helps in overgrazing. The rest of his acreage is leased by an amish guy, who couldn't use part of it because he is organic and the neighbors aren't. As long as the fence is on, they don't get out. The one wouldn't get out even if it wasn't on, she won't even walk under a wire that isn't hot or ever been hot. She also wouldn't go over a wire that was just a few inches off the ground.


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

*boarding*



AnitaAnne said:


> I really don't think you should pay per horse when basically you have made all the improvements to the land. That being said, it is not clear how many horses you have, or what relative value boarding is there.
> In most cases, this situation a person pays for the use of the land, or rents the land. This is very common for cattle grazing, but used for horses and goats sometimes too.
> The cost of water and electricity have to be figured in also, as that is not as common when renting or leasing land.
> Is your brother asking for reimbursement or are you just offering?
> ...


 I have 2 horses, and boarding starts at around $100 per horse for pasture boarding-sometimes with the property owner doing some feeding and all maintenance. And that is with all the horse shelters and fencing already existing. Sometimes with hay included for $135 per month. He asked me to come up with something fair. I have had them there for 2 years for free, so it isn't unfair of him to ask for something, I just want to pay a reasonable amount considering what I have provided and how much I have done. It is no more than 3 acres, if that. When I brought them there, there was no fencing or shelters. I had a shelter built for when I housed them on my cousin's property a little further away. I also brought in all fencing and with some help I had the fences put up and I had to bring in a storage shed for feed and other supplies, as he has no barn or other storage available. Around here pasture board is $100 - $135 with the horse owner supplying the hay and other feed. And that is with the property owner providing the horse shelter and fences and doing maintenance on said fences. There is basically no place to ride for at least half of the year, which is fine most of the time, I just enjoy being around the horses, and have had the one horse for 22 years. (So needless to say, I am very attached to her) 
So what would you be willing to pay for 2 horses on 2-3 acres, with basically no trails available? 
The only reason I am having to do this is because the farm I had them on was sold after the owner(my father) died. I never had to worry about it then as he didn't ask for anything monetary, just labor in exchange. I don't mind paying, but don't feel it is fair to pay $100 per head when I do all the maintenance and brought in all the fences and shelter for them. Electricity is fairly cheap, and water is free because it is well water. The pump to run water uses some electricity, but not much.


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

*boarding*



KigerQueen said:


> i pay $100 per horse for self care,


That seems to be the going rate here as well, although that is with the fences and shelter provided for people.
Which is not the case here.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I pay AU$40 a week for "self care" (my contract states that I do everything but the farm owner actually does morning care for me and won't let me pay him any extra) but I'm in south west Western Australia where that price is on the cheaper side of normal. That works out to a little over AU$160/month. He provides water, a tack/feed shed, and a round pen. I'd love an arena (and have had one at previous farms) but there's flat ground to ride on and I could put markers up in Mum's horse's paddock without much trouble. My horse's paddock is bigger but she's accident prone so the less I have in with her the better.

I have a couple of jumps, with permission to set them up wherever and however I like in our area (mum's horse's paddock and mine). I can also split paddocks using temporary electric fencing however I like, though my mare will go under it if her neck is covered.

The only problem, really, is that I have no wash bay and no electricity. And that's not THAT big of a problem... I can wash my horse using bucket water, and I can get cordless horse clippers. As for lighting in the tack/feed shed at night... I have a head lamp I bought for trail riding at night!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Pasture board around here runs about $200-250/month and owner does everything but feed. The horses are out on pasture with a round bale as needed, grained at night (only if needed), and have water 24/7. No one here would give you a break on board because you brought in temporary fencing or shelter, since you'd be taking it with you when you left. Owners usually carry a $1,000,000.00 umbrella liability policy because accidents do happen and any horse will go through a fence if the provocation is strong enough. So, unless you want to switch to a lease/acre situation with your brother, $100/head is fair since that's the going rate where you are. It's his property they will damage and he's the one who will have to fix it all up when you leave. If something happened and they got out, he's the one who will get sued. It's not just a matter of parking the horses on land, there's considerably more that the land owner has to be aware of.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

BeckyMMiller said:


> What would you charge someone to board their horses on your land? The horse owner would provide the horse fence, shelter, any feeding supplies, all feed - besides the pasture grass, and all maintainence on fencing and shelter, and their own storage for horse supplies. The only thing the land owner would provide is use of the land, some electricity for electric fence charger and water from well. Does $60 per horse per horse per month sound reasonable? The horse owner would also do all work and cleanup of horse supplies. The horse owner would do all feeding and watering.



It will somewhat vary on the area. 



I pay $100 a month per horse. Pretty much self care. Horses are in the pasture. During the winter months, it is an additional $60 a horse a month for the BO to provide hay and feed the hay. (But I usually don't keep mine there in the winter.)



They do have a barn with a couple stalls that I can use if needed (such as if a horse injures themselves) and there is also a nice big outdoor arena for use. 



I also park my horse trailer out there, and while I keep most of my things in my trailer (saddles, tack, etc) I do keep a few things in the barn (extra buckets, bags of feed, etc).


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

BeckyMMiller said:


> I have 2 horses, and boarding starts at around $100 per horse for pasture boarding-sometimes with the property owner doing some feeding and all maintenance. And that is with all the horse shelters and fencing already existing. Sometimes with hay included for $135 per month. He asked me to come up with something fair. I have had them there for 2 years for free, so it isn't unfair of him to ask for something, I just want to pay a reasonable amount considering what I have provided and how much I have done. It is no more than 3 acres, if that. When I brought them there, there was no fencing or shelters. I had a shelter built for when I housed them on my cousin's property a little further away. I also brought in all fencing and with some help I had the fences put up and I had to bring in a storage shed for feed and other supplies, as he has no barn or other storage available. Around here pasture board is $100 - $135 with the horse owner supplying the hay and other feed. And that is with the property owner providing the horse shelter and fences and doing maintenance on said fences. There is basically no place to ride for at least half of the year, which is fine most of the time, I just enjoy being around the horses, and have had the one horse for 22 years. (So needless to say, I am very attached to her)
> So what would you be willing to pay for 2 horses on 2-3 acres, with basically no trails available?
> The only reason I am having to do this is because the farm I had them on was sold after the owner(my father) died. I never had to worry about it then as he didn't ask for anything monetary, just labor in exchange. I don't mind paying, but don't feel it is fair to pay $100 per head when I do all the maintenance and brought in all the fences and shelter for them. Electricity is fairly cheap, and water is free because it is well water. The pump to run water uses some electricity, but not much.


Ok, that information helps a lot. Let me address issues in a sort of bullet style, as I have been at work for 13.5 hrs today and tired! 

Insurance: This issue came up early in my land lease, I checked with my insurance company and they said since I lease the land my horses are covered under my home owners policy so long as I don't have more than 3 horses. No increase on my homeowner's policy. 

Improvements to property: You have invested a lot of money and time putting improvements on your brother's property (for your own use). These improvements increase the value of his property, and unless you can relocate them, you really have lost out on that value. So IMO he should have discussed rent prior to this, but what is done is done. You (IMO) should suggest to him that you have paid quite a bit of money for these improvements, and need to be there for another X years to recoup your investment. 

Fair lease amount: IMO an offer of $100/month for pasture lease, plus continue to pay for the extra services ($10 for hay moving or some such) is a fair amount for the next 3 years or so. 

I really don't think that $100.month to lease 2+ acres is too little. It is more or less $50/acre and he is your brother! I am not sure what the Amish person is paying to lease the other land, but $50/acre per month seems like a reasonable amount. 


Another person you could talk to is your Dad; ask him what he thinks is a fair amount. 


The neighbor of where I keep my horses is mowing my pasture for FREE twice per year. He has refused to even accept money for gas!!! So his little girls said they wished they could ride a horse, and I offered to give them pony rides (which will turn into free lessons) on my 24 yr old retired QH. 


So I guess different areas have different customs. Here we help each other out. The land owner of my leased property don't do anything with my horses at all, except in winter he will break up ice for them if I can't get there. But he is 84 yrs old now, so I cannot ask him for that kind of help anymore.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I would think that you can pretty much create a land lease like that of a pasture lease for cattle. In a cattle situation, the price pretty much depends on the location and how much grazing it provides. I'm thinking in my area, the average is about 30 dollars per acre per year. A lot of land owners like this because the livestock owner will take care of the land, it won't get overgrown with undesirable plants and fences are looked after. Also the land owners are able to get Ag. exemptions with their property taxes. The problem with horses is it's not considered a agriculture property tax exemption (unless you are breeding). I guess because we don't eat them here, they fall somewhere in between being livestock and companions. 

I have a situation where it is pretty much self care board. I say pretty much because the land owner hays my girls most mornings. I feed hers for her when she is out of town. Other than that, I do most of the care myself. I pay 140 per horse per month.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

BeckyMMiller said:


> I have 2 horses, and boarding starts at around $100 per horse for pasture boarding-sometimes with the property owner doing some feeding and all maintenance. And that is with all the horse shelters and fencing already existing. Sometimes with hay included for $135 per month. He asked me to come up with something fair.* I have had them there for 2 years for free*, so it isn't unfair of him to ask for something, I just want to pay a reasonable amount considering what I have provided and how much I have done.
> I don't mind paying, but don't feel it is fair to pay $100 per head when I do all the maintenance and brought in all the fences and shelter for them. Electricity is fairly cheap, and water is free because it is well water. The pump to run water uses some electricity, but not much.


Ummm... so let me expand on what you think is fair...

_Your horses have been living here for the past 2 years *for free*_*.*
Yup, you brought in fencing and some sort of shelter that your horses benefit from.

Water is *not* "free" because it comes from a well...
That well runs on electricity and that costs $... over the period of 2 years 2 horses and how many troughs of water drunk, then dumped and cleaned troughs weekly adds up.
If there is a water system and depending on if the water goes through the system or not you can add more expense for your "free" water.

So, I look at it that he owes you nothing.
At $100 per horse x 2 = $1,200 per year x 2 years = $2,400 in rent....
To me, you do owe him monthly rent at this point.
You _have_ used up your equity in fencing and shelter installed because although he only does this or that...
He does at his time and expense for your horses.
He could of rented the land, all of it, to the other person and been collecting far more for increased size of the land alone and not had to do one bit of anything.

*Yea, sorry...it is time you dig in your pocket and start paying the going rate for pasture use and boarding of the horses their.*
Going rate you mentioned is $100 per head = $200 per month, x 12 months is $2,400 per year. 

Pay up....
Any barn I worked at or kept horses at the land owner provided fence and shelter, but if my horses damaged it then it was my responsibility to fix and repair. 
It was also my responsibility to clean and make a manure pile to keep clean the area my horses resided in...
The land owner would get the manure removed, if he made a $ selling it that was his business as he spent the time loading trucks for it to be gone.
Fair is fair, and those fences and unless you refer to a $15,000 barn _it stays_ when you decide to go.
:runninghorse2:... 
_jmo.._


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## bayleysours (Apr 1, 2019)

I live in central IL and I pay $200 a month for self care. 

I use their pasture, fencing, stall at night, sawdust, water and hay. I buy my own grain but you can also feed barn grain for free, I just use my own because I feed a performance feed. I am responsible for feeding my horse, turning out/in, and cleaning my stall.


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

*...*



horselovinguy said:


> Ummm... so let me expand on what you think is fair...
> 
> _Your horses have been living here for the past 2 years *for free*_*.*
> Yup, you brought in fencing and some sort of shelter that your horses benefit from.
> ...


I did not say he owed me anything, I am just trying to come up with a fair price for use of the land. The field was only partially used for hay by the amish guy before me. I am thinking the situation 
is more of a land lease than a boarding situation. We talked and he asked me to research and come up with a good price for both of us. I don't dump water troughs to clean. The water trough is small so I wait
until it is empty to clean when necessary. I don't bathe my horses regularly, only one time a year. The amish still lease the rest of the area that is able to be farmed, some of it is under water and swampy so it 
can't be farmed. I doubt the area I fenced is even 2 acres total. I am still doing my research and trying to come up with the best for both of us. The best for me would be free still, but I realize that wouldn't be fair
to him. And the fence charger and water pump use very little electricity in comparison to lights and such. Currently I am using a solar charger anyway, it just doesn't work as well as the other one.


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

*...*



LoriF said:


> I would think that you can pretty much create a land lease like that of a pasture lease for cattle. In a cattle situation, the price pretty much depends on the location and how much grazing it provides. I'm thinking in my area, the average is about 30 dollars per acre per year. A lot of land owners like this because the livestock owner will take care of the land, it won't get overgrown with undesirable plants and fences are looked after. Also the land owners are able to get Ag. exemptions with their property taxes. The problem with horses is it's not considered a agriculture property tax exemption (unless you are breeding). I guess because we don't eat them here, they fall somewhere in between being livestock and companions.
> 
> I have a situation where it is pretty much self care board. I say pretty much because the land owner hays my girls most mornings. I feed hers for her when she is out of town. Other than that, I do most of the care myself. I pay 140 per horse per month.


The average price of land lease for grazing in my area last year was $30 per acre. I wouldn't mind paying board prices if he had provided the shelter and fencing. I don't mind paying him something, I am just trying to be fair in what to pay considering what he has provided and what I have provided in this situation. I have been thinking more and more that it is more of a ground lease type thing going on here rather than a boarding thing. I don't expect to have to do it for a lot more years, as one of them is 25 and not in the best health, so I would not imagine her living past 30 if she lives to that. When she dies, I will probably find a place to board the other one closer to my home or sell/lease her. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
Thank You!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I think he provided you with a lot more than you realize.
How many times did you ask...can you do this, can you help me do that...
How many times when weather was nasty did he check on your horses, make sure they had drinkable water, were safe, had adequate food or get them hay, or did he just go out to make sure your old horse especially was OK...
Those things done were done because he cares...but he is also entitled to compensation...
He may also have someone wanting to lease that land with or without what improvements you made.
He knows what it is worth for what your intended purpose is..
Going rate for pasture with horses you said was $100 per head..._that is the price you pay._
_Your "investment" = paid your rent for the last 2 years, bill paid in full._

There is no getting around you made a investment, but you did *not* also pay rent.
Now that investment has balanced out what you spent with what is now turned into a monthly payment ...the barter is now a paid in full bill. 
Your horses residing on premise for 24 months free because you spent {??} is now used up and kaput..
2 horses for 2 years @ $100 per horse per month = $4,800.00 
Fence and shelter structure cost you...._That is personal._
If your horses were elsewhere with fence & shelter provided you would of paid out $4,800 over the last 2 years in rent..
_I did some figuring and costs structuring...I could of fenced and put up a nice shelter for less than $4,800..._

The slate is clean at this point. 
What you probably invested you would of spent for rent elsewhere, period.
You now start to pay monthly rent to have horses residing at this address.
If you went anyplace else you would pay $100 per horse, per month, _then that is what family is also entitled to._
*Clear record keeping of rent paid and for what month from this point forward are needed...
*_*Family is family and business is business...the two do not cross paths easily. *
_
Yes, family or not he _*is*_ entitled to be compensated at the going rate as you already said.
What you spent previous to this is a wash, because you did *not* pay rent so your investment worked off the rent that should of been paid from day one of occupancy. 
I hope you can come to a amicable $ price for what he is allowing you to use...and the things he does he does not ask for $ for.
Self-care board is just that...all on you.
Land owner does *not *help or need to do anything..just extend a hand for the rent. :|
Good luck.

:runninghorse2:...


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## BeckyMMiller (May 13, 2017)

horselovinguy said:


> I think he provided you with a lot more than you realize.
> How many times did you ask...can you do this, can you help me do that...
> How many times when weather was nasty did he check on your horses, make sure they had drinkable water, were safe, had adequate food or get them hay, or did he just go out to make sure your old horse especially was OK...
> Those things done were done because he cares...but he is also entitled to compensation...
> ...


The only thing I asked for help with was moving hay one bale a month and I paid for the gas most of the time, there were a few times I didn't have cash on hand. I did not ask him to do anything in regard to anything else. I know we will come to an agreement. No family is worth losing over any amount of money.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I would think $150 - $200/month is fair. It is his land you are using.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

BeckyMMiller said:


> The average price of land lease for grazing in my area last year was $30 per acre. I wouldn't mind paying board prices if he had provided the shelter and fencing. I don't mind paying him something, I am just trying to be fair in what to pay considering what he has provided and what I have provided in this situation. I have been thinking more and more that it is more of a ground lease type thing going on here rather than a boarding thing. I don't expect to have to do it for a lot more years, as one of them is 25 and not in the best health, so I would not imagine her living past 30 if she lives to that. When she dies, I will probably find a place to board the other one closer to my home or sell/lease her. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
> Thank You!


If the average price of a land lease in your area was only $30/year, then $100/month is more than generous. 

I wonder if he needs money for something, but doesn't want to ask? 

Maybe offer him something like a lump sum, $600 for the year. It sounds like a good bit of money, especially in one lump sum, but only works out to $50/month. 


Yes, IMO your set-up is more of a land lease than a boarding situation, and should be treated like one. 

As I mentioned previously, in my area, according to my insurance company, 3 horses = pleasure use and is covered by my homeowners policy. Four horse = business rates, and I would have to self insure them.


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## vonlora (Mar 28, 2011)

Not sure you should approach this as self board. You are using his land. Look around and see what other people charge for renting an acre or two. You said you are paying for the tractor's gas (thou that is a lot of gas to move hay if it is always $10) so it sounds like it is just a land lease.
I am in southern California and I pay $60.00 a month. It covers the 24X48 corral with 8X24 shelter, automatic water, use of the arena and round pen, insurance and dumpster for manure removal. I buy my own hay, feed her and clean the corral. No tractor, she provides the golf cart and muck buckets to clean the corrals. We are responsible to replace anything we break, but they do all of the maintenance.
After reading all these listings, sounds like a have a really good deal.


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