# My somewhat philosophical/angry rant on breed racism



## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

What a silly notion. Everyone knows Paints are the best.


----------



## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

Any breed can do any discipline. They just can't do it well. A warmblood may be able to run the pattern, but you won't see one at the NFR anytime soon.
I think people should be allowed to have their own likes and dislikes for breeds. I personally am not a fan of most gaited breeds, but I state that with total respect for people who own them and I can appreciate a good horse of any breed or discipline. It's not so much about the opinion, it's how it's stated and expressed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

If horses were pets then what you are saying would be true. You can get an excellent pet horse for free or very little. Horses aren't just pets though, they're a hobby, an industry, a lifestyle. 

Sure warmbloods can run around barrels but that doesn't mean they'll be any good at it. In the same way you don't see many Quarter Horse or western breeds competing at high level dressage. An Arab can jump a 2 ft jump course fine, but you don't see often them jumping 5ft courses.

Breeds are there for a reason. They're not just there to show that people are elitist or snobby, they represent generations of careful choosing and training, evaluating skills and abilities and finally creating a horse that should have similar skills and attributes. These horses are almost created by people, not just a chance encounter of throwing random horses in a paddock. 

When you pay thousands for a horse your not paying for just "the horse" in it's value of meat or as a pet. You're paying for the time that has gone into it, not just it's training over the years, but also the years of breeding and training that people put into it's parents, and all the others before that. 

I've had off the track thoroughbreds retrained to do jumping, or other random crossbreeds I'd bought for a few hundred dollars. Recently I bought a horse who was purpose bred (although not registered) and I paid close to three times what I normally paid. So far, it's good. He's got great basic training, a lovely level temperament and things are just going smoother than with all the other horses I was trying to turn into something they weren't meant to be. 

There are a place for all sorts of horses. But breeds form an important part of the horse world, and being prejudice against them isn't any better than being pro a particular breed.


----------



## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

Everybody has their favorite breeds. Everybody. And everybody has breeds they don't like. I don't like Arabs, whatsoever. That doesn't mean I think they're useless, or whatever. They have their place. I don't like them, but I can appreciate a good arab-y Arab. Am I breed racist? No. I'm well aware they have their place in the horse world.

And you're completely right. Any breed can do any discipline. But some breeds are better than others - just like, say, dogs. Yes, a team of wiener dogs COULD pull a sled, but you won't see much besides huskies doing it. A lab COULD learn to herd, but collies are really bred for it. Just like some horses are bred for specific types of events. That doesn't mean it's 'breed racism,' it means you want a horse that can do what you want to do. If ALL YOU DO is race barrels, a big bootied quarter horse will be worth much more to you than a Percheron. If you want to pull carts, that draft team will be worth more to you than an Arab.

I will agree with you on the fact that I don't think a horse's worth should come from pedigree so much as talent, but like you said everything is SUBJECTIVE. Not all horses are created equal. They are all wonderful at the thing they were bred for. I don't show, so I wouldn't go out and look for a Grand Prix Dressage horse - it would be worth less to me than a good, solid trail horse. Does that make me breed racist? Absolutely not. It's silly to say so.

Stereotypes are stereotypes, but they were created for a reason and most have a grain of truth. Quarters run barrels because they're good at it. TBs race because they're good at it. Fresians pull carts because they're good at it. Stereotype? Yep. Truth? Yep. Can all of them do any of the other events? Yep. Will they excel? Probably not. Not breed racism at all.


----------



## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

Also, it's not really breed "racism" it'd be bias an personal preference more than anything. I don't really like using such a strong word for something that is just reflecting people's opinions on breeds. Racism is a thing that still affects people today and it doesn't apply to this situation at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Sahara said:


> What a silly notion. Everyone knows Paints are the best.



It's not so black and white though is it?? :rofl:


----------



## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Shoebox is right on. If I ever say I don't care for a particular breed of horse it's not because I think they're useless in general, they are just not the type of horse I personally like. I love quarter horses and paints because they suit me and my preferred riding discipline, doesn't mean I think everyone should love them, doesn't mean I think they are the best at everything, doesn't mean I think they are the only breed that can do what I like to do. it just means I find their overall picture pleasing to MY minds eye.

In my dream world I'm rich enough to own at least one of every breed. In reality I'm not rich so I have to pick and choose.


----------



## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Of course a warmblood could barrel race. Would it have the speed or the physical ability to dig in and turn like a quarter horse? The answer is an undisputed *no.* They are not built that way and it would be unfair to expect that of them. Same way you couldn't expect my little cow pony to jump 4ft out on a cross country course, and you wouldn't ask a cart driving pony to have the cow sense a cutter would. And quarter horses race on the track all the time - But they sprint. That's why they make incredible barrel horses. The speed they have over a short distance surpasses any horse out there. 

Breed stereotypes stem from the truth. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but you have to think realistically.


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Urgh. This has been done to death. 
Each breed has its place. Whether it's a horse, a dog, a goat, a cow.... 
Horses, pedigree does increase value in many cases. Being a Dressage person, I will use warmbloods as an example.
European lines have been extremely carefully developed through generations of selective breeding, to produce top competitors and breeding stock in the fields that they have been bred for. Stallions such as Jazz and Donnerhall have produced countless international Grand Prix horses and are well represented in large international competitions such as the Olympics and World Cup, WEG etc. They have also produced top class breeding stock with many of the broodmares and stallions by them coming high up the ranks in the tough classifications that they must go through. 
To purchase a youngster, by one of these stallions or their sons, out of an equally well bred and performed brood mare, is going to cost you quite a bit.
Why should you pay the same amount for a draft cross because someone had a pretty TB mare and their neighbour has a clydie stallion, and they think the youngster moves alright and is therefore a warmblood Dressage prospect???? 
Its not 'breed racism', it is buying to a purpose. If you are a competitive rider, you will buy the mount that is most likely to assist in achieving success. If you are not so competitive and just want to have fun, then go crazy and buy whatever breed you darn well want. 
It is all relative.


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Moving on from that Kayty..
As someone who is lucky enough to live in Germany..

We have a hell of a lot of WBs, naturally. We also have 'tinkers', Iberian breeds, Friesians... 

And we also see a lot of the best of all breeds.

HOWEVER

You point me out a Friesian or tinker in the upper dressage levels and I will eat my hat.

Any horse is capable of anything, but people have spent DECADES producing lines through careful breeding to excel at their certain disciplines.

If, as a dressage rider, I want to plod around and dabble in anything, I will look at any breed, but a suitable manner and training.

If I want to hit the higher levels, I do not go any buy a tinker!! They are not bred for that purpose.

(On the flip side, you couldn't get me to touch the Jazz/Pilot lines )

The ridden horse didn't pop out with the correct confo for what people wanted to do.

If I see a heavier horse at a dressage competition, I think 'wow.. rider must be good, horse must have some talent.. but very unlikely to win' because against a WB who has been specifically bred for that purpose?? No.

There is /always/ going to be breed snobbery. It gets as petty as bloodline snobbery too. 

My advice is.. you have a horse, ride it to your best ability, and her/his too. If we spent so much time worried about people's opinions on our horse's breed, saddle, numnah, stables.. it really would be a sport for the rich only.


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

DuffyDuck said:


> Moving on from that Kayty..
> As someone who is lucky enough to live in Germany..
> 
> We have a hell of a lot of WBs, naturally. We also have 'tinkers', Iberian breeds, Friesians...
> ...


 Oh the blood line snobbery yes! "Ooooohhhhhh your horse has Fabriano lines.... MY horse has Rubenstein" :lol: Meh, if it does the job I want, then I'm happy as a pig in 'poop' :lol:
Actually speaking of Jazz lines, like you Soph I wouldn't touch one with a 40foot barge pole, temperament is far too crazy. BUT a friend of mine just brought a 3 yr old with a handful of rides in it, Jazz lines out of a TB mare.... quiet as a lamb!!!!! Always an exception to the rule, so now that I know ONE exception I definitely won't buy a Jazz because you can't get lucky enough to know TWO quiet ones :lol:


----------



## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

I really don't feel it matters if people have strong opinions about breeds as to which they like or don't like, as long as they are not offensive to other people about it or use that opinion to mark down unfairly when judging. 

In dressage the heavy and cobby types are more likely to struggle with some of the movements and so are likely to not be placed highly, but that is just life and some can do very well. I love seeing the exceptions and would love to be one on my haflinger....but I know we struggle:lol:

In the UK you will see every breed having a go at low level dressage, from the shire cross to the Shetland cross (actually I have watched friends compete on both of those).


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Kayty said:


> Oh the blood line snobbery yes! "Ooooohhhhhh your horse has Fabriano lines.... MY horse has Rubenstein" :lol: Meh, if it does the job I want, then I'm happy as a pig in 'poop' :lol:
> Actually speaking of Jazz lines, like you Soph I wouldn't touch one with a 40foot barge pole, temperament is far too crazy. BUT a friend of mine just brought a 3 yr old with a handful of rides in it, Jazz lines out of a TB mare.... quiet as a lamb!!!!! Always an exception to the rule, so now that I know ONE exception I definitely won't buy a Jazz because you can't get lucky enough to know TWO quiet ones :lol:



Wait till it hits 5!!!!!

Honestly, they are NUTTERS.

Before Dobs was snipped.. I had someone ask if I could put him to a mare (unregistered stallion?!) because he has purdy blood lines.

I see so many advertisements here where the horse is sold off papers. RIDICULOUS.

I do like R lines though


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Haha I shall wait with baited breath - this one is the quietest Jazz I've ever seen :S
I love the Rubensteins, some very good moving, well tempered horses come from him. But I like my little Fishy too for his temperament 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iDressage (Sep 21, 2013)

To clarify, I am not ignoring the fact that...
1) Horse "stereotypes" do hold some truth
2) Horses are often bred for specific disciplines
But I personally don't think they should be confined to these boxes. If a warmblood shows natural talent for barrel racing, or seems to really enjoy it, they should be able to do that sport. Likewise with any other breed. 

I'm more so speaking about the "judgments" that people place upon horses because of their breed.


----------



## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

I get where you're coming from. Growing up paint horses were the devil and I knew many breeders that would take a paint foal behind the barn and shoot it rather than let the QH world know that THERE mare or stallion produced a paint! At the horse shows, I had the only paint and was looked down on. But, we beat their fancy QH on most if not all the events! I like all the breeds, ok maybe not shetlands too much. But I think that's because a lot of people let them get spoiled rotten and they're smart enough to take advantage of it.


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

gigem88 said:


> I get where you're coming from. Growing up paint horses were the devil and I knew many breeders that would take a paint foal behind the barn and shoot it rather than let the QH world know that THERE mare or stallion produced a paint! At the horse shows, I had the only paint and was looked down on. But, we beat their fancy QH on most if not all the events! I like all the breeds, ok maybe not shetlands too much. But I think that's because a lot of people let them get spoiled rotten and they're smart enough to take advantage of it.


 
o.0
But surely, if the owner bred to a paint.. the result would be...


----------



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

iDressage said:


> To clarify, I am not ignoring the fact that...
> 1) Horse "stereotypes" do hold some truth
> 2) Horses are often bred for specific disciplines
> But I personally don't think they should be confined to these boxes. If a warmblood shows natural talent for barrel racing, or seems to really enjoy it, they should be able to do that sport. Likewise with any other breed.


sure, the warmblood may have the talent or heart for it. But, warmbloods arent fast, they don't have the "sprint" in them. They are often too large/long to be a good barrel mount. And my goal is to get out there and win. A warmblood will 100% absolutely never be on my list for buying a barrel prospect. no matter how special it is.

when searching for a barrel horse, unless its already a proven winner, I will always go for a race bred AQHA/APHA...yes registered!...horses. If I'm looking for a prospect, I'm going to buy the best bloodlines that have proven themselves on the track or in the arena. I'm not willing to take a risk on a backyard bred grade.

Am I a breed/pedigree snob? Maybe. But I'd rather give myself the advantage of good lines to go with the natural talent.

I get what your saying OP, and at local fun levels, sure thats great. In a perfect world. But in reality...and at the top levels...Its just irrational. And it is unheard of.

to each his/her own...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

If it can get someone safely from point A to Z I love it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

The biggest breed racism I see at shows is people hating on other peoples horses because they are nice or well bred.

In general, I've noticed that when people breed bash its because they are jealous. Either jealous that you are beating them on your mutt or that you are beating them on your well bred horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I have found lots of different breeds have lots of talents and can do well at many things. I do think that some horses have been bred to naturally do higher levels of different sports and if you are competing at those high levels, then you probably need one of them. For MOST of us though, who are not Olympic calibre riders, then a good horse of any breed can probably do just fine for us. 

I've also found that Arabians tend to "rub off" on other horses. I have some Arabs who are just comedians and they encourage the QHs to do it too. The other day, one of my Arabs wanted to sneak out and play "pasture tag" and was giving me fits at the gate. The look of absolute delight on his face when he "suckered" me and I dodged left when he went right and got out into the big pasture was a sheer joy to behold. So, immediately, the QH stallion had to test me and see if HE could get me laughing. I LOVE it when they outsmart in silly stuff like this. 

As long as WE enjoy OUR horses, who cares what anyone else thinks? They aren't paying my bills.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

_All_ horses are purpose bred, as the domestic horses of today in no way, shape or form resemble their wild ancestors. 

Whether or not you put a fugly, conformational trainwreck of a mare to a stallion who should long ago have been a gelding, or are breeding top flight animals to each other, _every_ horse is purpose bred regardless of whether they can actually do anything other than stand around, eat and poop.

When I hear how prejudiced others supposedly are against someone's unknown lineage, hammer headed, pig eyed, grade horse and how their horse is SO much better than a purebred, to me that's just as snobby as someone else with breed/bloodline prejudice.

Chances are if you take your ungifted animal in a class with horses who were purpose bred for that particular sport you're going to lose, and that's NOT because everybody hated your horse/was jealous/somebody paid off the judge. 

Grade horses with unknown lineage can be fine animals, but you can't tell me overall that they're just as talented as horses who are purpose bred for a particular discipline.


----------



## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> I'm more so speaking about the "judgments" that people place upon horses because of their breed.


this part I agree with, for the most part. Every horse should be evaluated as an individual. Many horses, if given the chance, would excel in a disapline for which they were not bred. Think snow man. Or the many other exceptions to the rule.

That said, it makes no sense to go looking for say, a cutting or cow horse prospect, and instead of looking for a stock horse with those bloodlines, you go waste a bunch of your own and the sellers time, looking at thoroughbreds, Arabians, shorter warmbloods and some draft crosses. Might one of those work for you? sure. If you find one with the right temperament, build and inclination, then invest a few thousand into training it. The fact is, you are going to invest thousands into the training regardless, and the odds of success are astronomically higher if you buy a prospect that is from proven stock. If you have the time, desire and funds to give another, potentially ill suited horse a chance, great. But for the most part, you do what you can to increase your odds of success. I am not going to invest months of conditioning in a freisian, with the hope that it might make an endurance horse. No, I'm going to go buy an arab, or other proven breed, ideally out of successful parents. If I had a freisian I might try it for fun, but I certainly would not go buy a carriage horse for long distance riding, or a dressage horse for cattle work, or a 14hh cutting horse as my next show jumper.

People holding onto silly, unproven prejudices about a breed(or for that matter a gender, height, color) is unfortunate. Hating something is never good, and criticizing others for liking something different is not good either. No one should be bullied or put down for choosing to ride a horse of a different breed, height, color, bloodline or gender.

I have opinions, and I think everyone is entitled to their own. I don't like most quarter horses. Either I find them boring, or they are trying to kill me. I know I have only been around a tiny fraction of the qh's out there, so my opinion is likely unfairly biased. but I still would not choose to go out and buy one. I love thoroughbreds, but I think most of them are suicidal, so I would not own one. Personal preference is one thing. looking down on people who don't agree is another entirely.


----------



## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I dunno what to tell 'ya, OP. Those prejudices will always be there. And for good reason.

If I decide that I want to become a successful barrel racer, I'm not going to go out and purchase a WB in hopes that he will "have the heart" for it. No, I'm going to go purchase a proven Quarter Horse or Paint, and then take lessons so we can improve together. If I want to try my hand at Jumpers, I'm not going to purchase a Gypsy Vanner and hope that he "has the heart for it". No, I'm going to purchase a WB or a Thoroughbred, then take lessons so we can improve together.

Likewise, I'm not going to try something that my horse just isn't bred for. I own a Hunt-Type Paint. He has the big, long gaits, low headset... Everything he needs to be successful in the Hunter and Equitation rings. Plus, he's a little on the older side. Am I going to try barrel racing with him? Heck no. It's not something he's meant to do.

As far as what other people think... Who cares? If your horse is good enough, they will prove it.


----------



## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

*Warning. Stereotype AND Generalization About to Begin*

In reading the OP's comments (without taking any other factors into account - just based on the comments)

I walk away with the *perception* that the OP has never SERIOUSLY competed in either the horse world or the dog world.

Now, don't take that personal. By competing, I mean pour your heart and soul, finances, spare and not-spare time, everything you have, to the point you are almost considered a professional competitor.

Based purely on the original post, I could walk away saying that the OP may be in training or may be entering the horse show world, but that the OP is not currently engaged in a horse show lifestyle.


In my dog training past, I have had lots of obedience students with family pets decide to enter into the performance ring. Obedience or Agility, doesn't matter.

A dog owner with a family pet discovers agilty. The owner gets the "competition bug." The owner enjoys the activity and gets ribbon / trophy envy. He or She wants to walk out with the big rosette at the end of the day.

He or she owns (let's say) a basset hound and trains the basset every day. read every book. practice practice practice. build their own jumps and obstacles. The basset loves the work.

But, that basset WILL NEVER score higher than the border collie. In the agility ring, it is the border collie and sheltie that dominates the scoring. Sure, the basset can complete the course. The dog may even love going under the tarps and over the A-frame (sorry, giggled at that thought).

But it won't win. And eventually, the owner has to accept that he or she is never going to get a rosette.

You know what happens next? 

The owner buys a border collie. And not just ANY border collie. One that comes from agility proven breeding. Because this next dog is not so much a family pet; it is an investment in ribbons.

I have a cow-bred quarter. Because of saddle issues, I moved from western hacking to an English saddle where I will hack. I happen to board my horse with a respected dressage instructor. So, I am taking English lessons now. Will I one day sign up for a local show at the barn and have a good time. Yes. Can my cow-bred horse do this. Yes.

But, if I ever get good enough at dressage riding that I want a ribbon....

the cow-horse and I will have a conversation. Because eventually, my ego (how about need to achieve) will outgrow not his enthusiasm, but his conformation.

That's why people choose one breed over another. You can smack your head against the wall until the wall shatters, but you will never turn a basset hound into a border collie.


----------



## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

Boy, oh boy...... horses, dogs, whatever you play with, their will always be "breed racism" part of it is the competitive nature of folks, part of it is tradition, and part of it is that bottom line, your breed x horse might be the best off breed barrel horse in the world but, its babies likely wont be. While there certainly will always be the odd ball grade horse that does well at something every sport has its specialist.

As far as price reflecting worth..... I would say that when you get into the upper realm of any discipline, or at least get to the point of being competitive pay to play is more than just a saying, it is fact. And, while pedigree is only worth the paper it is printed on, I will pay for consistent results, based on someone elses hard work, any day of the week.

AQHSam, I agree whole hartedly with your post. I see exactly what you are talking about every weekend, when someone, who shows up with their newspaper pointer realizes they cant compete much past juvenile stakes with the purpose bred FT dogs.

Jim


----------



## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

Jimmyp: I "acquired" several of my dogs this way.

I adopted this cute little (turned out HUGE) lab/wolfhound mix. Showed her in UKC obedience into the utility ring and did well, but that wasn't good enough. I wanted AKC.

So I then a well bred (but England field bred) English Springer spaniel. Bombed in obedience. Couldn't keep her bloody nose off the ground. She did very well in Agility.

But, then I wanted to do the breed ring, and her fieldy looks from across the sea wasn't getting me anywhere, so I sucked up to a bench breeder and now had a show-bred who couldn't do the agility course but was decent in the breed and obedience ring.

I had to retire at that point. I ran out of dog kennels.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I want to get my Scotch Collie into Agility. I think he'd be good at it, but I have no desire to ribbon chase. As long as he's enjoying himself, that's all that matters.

He's from herding dog lines, but doesn't have the desire to herd.


----------



## Viranh (Apr 7, 2013)

Honestly, breed prejudices exist for a reason. I love a good cutting bred QH because I used to live on a working ranch, and they were super easy to train to do the work I needed. I also like the temperament that QH's tend to have. Those same horses I love are terrible at my new sport. My poor QH struggles with basic dressage. I would love to have the time and money for a warmblood, and once arthritis gets the better of her, and I have a real job instead of a graduate stipend, I will get one. It is simply not fair to ask my poor girl to keep moving up the levels when collection is physically difficult for her. There's just no way we'd ever score well. She's not physically capable of executing the movements with any quality. 

Of course, some amount of breed snobbiness is about money. I can't afford $10k+ for a horse right now, nor can I afford to have some one exercise/train a more difficult horse while I don't have the time. And some people in the show world CAN. Some of them are the kind of people that try to make you feel bad for not having the nicest car or the most expensive saddle. Those people suck, but they show up everywhere. Nothing wrong with doing casual/low level stuff with whatever horse you can afford as long as you're both happy.


----------



## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I am using these examples because this is what I'm familiar with.

When you're choosing a barrel racing prospect, who will you choose?

Tres Seis, a racing quarter horse?










Or this warmblood, *****? (I know nothing about him dressage ladies...So feel free to enlighten me if you want, I just googled and he came up)

http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallions/*****/1.jpg

Anyone with eyes can see the difference between these two horses. Tres Seis built to sprint, and absolutely throw his hind end in the ground and run around barrels; ***** is not. He's built for good, big, dynamic moves that will earn him dressage points. You tried to run barrels on this horse and you would *break* him. You would break Tres Seis too if you tried to jump him like a lot of warmbloods do. 

Heart can only make up for so many faults...Some horses will try until they kill themselves. Just like some humans. You, as the owner, have to know the horse's limits better than they do and stop them before that happens.


----------



## 80acorns (Sep 20, 2013)

BlueSpark said:


> People holding onto silly, unproven prejudices about a breed(or for that matter a gender, height, color) is unfortunate. Hating something is never good, and criticizing others for liking something different is not good either. No one should be bullied or put down for choosing to ride a horse of a different breed, height, color, bloodline or gender.


This!! It's prejudiced, not racist. And having preconceived notions about anything, horse breeds, dog breeds, people without the basis of fact or personal experience is wrong. It works either way, positive or negative. Obviously, negative can hurt a lot more. 

The silly rumors and lies I hear about saddlebreds is absurd. None based on personal experience or fact. My husband still tells me he refuses to ride a saddlebred. I'm tempted to find him the craziest, bucking QH and send him on his way. I will laugh from my bomb proof Amish rescue. To bash something you know nothing about is crazy and makes me question how you feel about people who are different from you. 

I firmly believe it is interconnected. If you are not accepting of other breeds, people's level of accomplishments, income levels in animals, you aren't respectful towards people either. 

And yes a horse, dog, or whatever with generations and generations of proven ancestors should cost more than the byb critter with no thought to the match. Luckily there are great breeders out there who care more about the type of home their animals are going than their pocket book. 

Idk. Lately I have had it with all the hate, bullying and bashing I see in the news. Idk if it is an American thing or a human thing to be so obsessed with labels and differences. You don't have to agree or be best buds, but you don't need to put others down or bad mouth either.




Sent from Petguide.com Free App


----------



## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

This whole thread reminded me of this.


----------



## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Glynnis said:


> This whole thread reminded me of this.
> 
> We bought the wrong horse! Hilarious insurance commercial... - YouTube



You got that right! Might be the "best horse" for one thing and not another. We all get the "best horses" for our ability, financial situation, heart, goals etc...

I don't ever mind someone saying "I love dressage so I will only ride Warmbloods" what I hate is when someone says "Saddlebreds suck because they can't do dressage" or something to that effect. Why can't we all like what we like without ripping on other peoples tastes?

I guess I really hear the crap because I tend to have the underdogs of the animal world. I have Saddlebred horses and Rottweiler dogs. Yikes! I guess that makes me an abuser (because all Saddlebreds are abused)and a thug (because only Thugs want to own those killer Rotties. . ha ha Those darn stereotypes. If only I knew about such things back in the day when I first fell in love with the breeds. 

There are very few breeds out there that I have not seen a few examples of that I was in awe of. Not that I would want to buy them but... just WOW! Cool horses.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Glynnis said:


> This whole thread reminded me of this.
> 
> We bought the wrong horse! Hilarious insurance commercial... - YouTube


Haha...:rofl:


----------



## KennyT (Oct 12, 2013)

I ride a gaited horse now but grew up on quarter horses and a mean old mule my grand daddy had. I agree fully. I don't think any breed is better then the next. I went to gaited horse for a little smoother ride after breaking my pelvis a while back. I still love a big ol' barrel chested quarter though. I guess in short, Ride on my friends...ride on.


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Inga, I adore rotties, such beautiful gentle dogs. I'm a huge fan of big dogs, my partner and I have been tossing up on what to get - I won the battle and we've got our name down for a bullmastiff pup. But rotties, ridgebacks and shepherds were high up on the list. 

Like you, there have not been many horse breeds that I haven't found beautiful when shown a classic example of the breed. Appies take a bit of convincing but I've seen some beautiful ones, I even owned an appy x back in the day!
Horses for courses, they've all got a use. I'm a dressage rider with warmbloods so therefore my horses are stabled 24/7, ridden permanently in rolkur while bandaged to the eyeballs and never get taken out of the arena..... Truth be told they live in a 10acre paddock with other horses, lots of trees, get taken to the beach in summer and trails whenever time and weather permit. 
The joys if stereotyping 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Hehe, I have a great dance...Everyone tells me to make sure she gets enough exercise and that I must be crazy for tackling such a monster dog.

Only my family has raised danes/coonhounds for show for so long, and I'd say 95% of the dogs from our program prefer to sleep 22 hours a day and eat the other 2...lol!


----------



## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I totally agree with you. I absolutely love thoroughbreds and I probably will only ever own TBs, but its becasue they're good at what I do and we get along with eachother. I'm not going to judge that appaloosa that's out on cross country just becasue it's different...

On the other side of this.... I get a lot of crap from people becasue I have thoroughbreds. My trainer was so opposed to the idea of me getting one that she refused to help me look for a new horse. She breeds Irish sport horses, so during our lessons I often hear things like "Well MY horses don't have this problem because they're not thoroughbreds" or "She's running through your aids. I know she's a thoroughbred and that's all they're good at, but I can't be here all day."

I have to say.. It hurts when people judge your babies like that and I've noticed I've started developing some breed racism myself, just from always being so defensive for my horses. Unfortunately there will always be stereotypes so there will always be unfair judgement.


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

2 years ago during a months of 100 degree heat I helped round up a neighbors cattle on a 18 YO arabian mare. The other riders all laughed when i arrived with the little chestnut mare that they all thought was too dainty to last.
i got the last laugh hours later when their QHs were tired and my aged mare was still going strong.
My neighbor has always said he would never have an arabian on his place. Misty changed his mind.
Stereotypes are all based in reality. Yet most are proven to be silly and blanket statements are often proven to be false.
All breeds have their strengths all have their limitations.
Most horses are versatile not all will be champions in different disciplines but most can perform well in lower levels.
There are breeds I will never own because I either do not like their appearance, gaits, size, or temperament. Nothing is wrong with that. 
I will not however degrade those breeds I dislike .
To each his own and we all should accept that. Shalom


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

My first and second horses were Arabians. I go so tired of people telling me how "crazy" Arabians were. It really grated on my nerves. But I came to peace with it when I realized that the people who were trashing them were afraid of their own horses and hardly ever rode. My Arabians carried me through city streets to trails on a local mountain preserve......mostly riding alone. And they took really good care of me because I was a total beginner who never had lessons. 

So I came to realize that the trash talkers never did half the stuff with their horses as I did with my Arabians, so who were they to talk?

Breed prejudice still bothers me though. Like everyone hates on grade horses and for what I do.......trail ride, it's the HORSE that matters, nothing else. I have had purebreds and grades. Currently a BLM Mustang, a registered Fox Trotter and her 3 yr old 1/2 QH son. Guess who's the most trustworthy out on the trails? The Mustang. He is the master of the trails and no million dollar horse could do any better for MY purposes. So when people bash on grades it bothers me because a set of papers means nothing when it comes to actually riding a horse out in the real world. I can trail ride with just about anyone on any horse and never be outclassed on my Mustang. That is HIS area of specialty.

Unless you are very specialized in a specific discipline (and probably showing), temperment and training are more important for the average rider, IMO.


----------



## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I think the issue is the attitude of the people, not the ability of the horse. I have been ostracized, made fun of, disregarded, snubbed, attacked, accused of being an abuser, and all sorts of horrible things as soon as people hear my breed of choice. When I attempted 4H, I wasn't even allowed to watch the drill team practices because of my breed. I would have been banned if I had mentioned I wanted to try it. I know how to deal with it now, but when I was a kid, I really didn't understand why my sweet horses were so bad. 

I now have friends of many breeds and disciplines. They are only my friends because, while they may have chosen different breeds, they are still NICE and RESPECTFUL about my horses, and I am the same for them. Whether or not *I* would EVER voluntarily own some of those horses, I am very happy that my friend is enjoying what they are doing. 

Should we all get along? Most of the time, YES! Should we all be nice? Most of the time, YES!
Should we all enjoy our horses and be happy for others enjoying theirs? YES! 

There is nothing I hate worse on horse forums in general when people post a picture "Look at my pretty pony! I love him so much! He is an X breed! They are my favorites!" And people say "They aren't my favorite breed, but I guess he's pretty." Dang it, just say he is cute, and leave out the parts about how you don't like his breed. That is what bugs me. Those threads are about bowing off and being proud of something you love.

Now "What do you think about X horses?" threads are different. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

LadyDreamer said:


> I think the issue is the attitude of the people, not the ability of the horse. I have been ostracized, made fun of, disregarded, snubbed, attacked, accused of being an abuser, and all sorts of horrible things as soon as people hear my breed of choice. When I attempted 4H, I wasn't even allowed to watch the drill team practices because of my breed. I would have been banned if I had mentioned I wanted to try it. I know how to deal with it now, but when I was a kid, I really didn't understand why my sweet horses were so bad.
> 
> I now have friends of many breeds and disciplines. They are only my friends because, while they may have chosen different breeds, they are still NICE and RESPECTFUL about my horses, and I am the same for them. Whether or not *I* would EVER voluntarily own some of those horses, I am very happy that my friend is enjoying what they are doing.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 1000% I always thought horse lovers loved HORSES. I love horses in general. Everyone has a breed or "look" they prefer, that's only natural. But in my mind, a true horse lover loves HORSES first and foremost. How can you love breed XYX and hate all the rest? I don't get that.


----------



## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

LadyDreamer said:


> I think the issue is the attitude of the people, not the ability of the horse. I have been ostracized, made fun of, disregarded, snubbed, attacked, accused of being an abuser, and all sorts of horrible things as soon as people hear my breed of choice. When I attempted 4H, I wasn't even allowed to watch the drill team practices because of my breed. I would have been banned if I had mentioned I wanted to try it. I know how to deal with it now, but when I was a kid, I really didn't understand why my sweet horses were so bad.
> 
> I now have friends of many breeds and disciplines. They are only my friends because, while they may have chosen different breeds, they are still NICE and RESPECTFUL about my horses, and I am the same for them. Whether or not *I* would EVER voluntarily own some of those horses, I am very happy that my friend is enjoying what they are doing.
> 
> ...


Ha Ha I had a similar experience around horses. I too never understood the behind my back whispers about my horses. I once stabled at a "Multi discipline" show barn. When I would bring my horses out to ride, everyone would leave the arena. In the beginning, it drove me nuts. Then I just enjoyed my time of "owning" the entire arena. I quit trying to work around other people. I figured, if they want to ride bad enough they would face their fears and make their way in to ride with the scary Saddlebreds. ha ha

It doesn't bother too much me when people say they don't care for a certain breed. It is when they add "they look deformed" or " making them hold their heads up is cruel" and my personal favorite "I HATE those horses because everyone sores them." What? Misinformed AND rude just rub me really wrong. 

Same thing with my dogs. I walk them and others cross the street to get away. They are registered therapy dogs and do huge public events with thousands of kids but there are always "those types" that will freak out once they realize what breed they are. Parents let their kids crawl all over my dogs and then say "what kind of dog is that?" when I answer they grab their kid and throw them behind themselves just in case the dog where to suddenly go nuts. Can't change stupid.


----------



## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Yeah, it doesn't bother me AS much now that I have learned how to real with it, and understand (somewhat) where they are coming from. I have so many more tools now than when I was a kid. When I was a kid though, it hurt my feelings a great deal. It wasn't just the 4h kids that did that. It was the parents and volunteers for the horse club. Unfortunately, I had to endure it until I moved since all 4h groups of that area were all kind of combined. In order to do the other things, I had to put up with it. When I moved, there were separate clubs. I love the 4h. I just loathe the horse groups with a passion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mrstorres2566 (Apr 25, 2013)

I dislike TB's, specifically OTTB. We have 2 at our barn, the gelding I just can't stand, the mare I could take or leave. I have just never found one I particularly like. They tend to be hot-headed and hard keepers. But, I care for them the same as every other horse at our barn, because it's my job and because I love horses, even TB's. 

I am particular to QH, Paints and Appy's, although I do have an eye for Arabs. I love their beauty, but as my past mare showed me, I can't handle them. 

And everyone at my barn tends to hate on Morgans, yet the most beloved horse is a 20 year old QH/Morgan named Scout.

The point of this rant? People will be biased no matter the type of animal. People are biased on dog breeds, cat breeds, Hell even Guinea pigs have breed bias. There is nothing we can do, except accept it.


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

mrstorres2566 said:


> I dislike TB's, specifically OTTB. We have 2 at our barn, the gelding I just can't stand, the mare I could take or leave. I have just never found one I particularly like. They tend to be hot-headed and hard keepers. But, I care for them the same as every other horse at our barn, because it's my job and because I love horses, even TB's.
> 
> I am particular to QH, Paints and Appy's, although I do have an eye for Arabs. I love their beauty, but as my past mare showed me, I can't handle them.
> 
> ...


Looks like my old fresh ottb didn't get the memo about being hot-headed and a hard keeper. He was the quietest thing I've had the pleasure of owning, and got fat off the whiff of an oily rag


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Looks like my old fresh ottb didn't get the memo about being hot-headed and a hard keeper. He was the quietest thing I've had the pleasure of owning, and got fat off the whiff of an oily rag


Sounds like my JJ too, Kayty. Except for Arabs, I think ex-racing TBs get the worst breed bias raps. :wink:

I can leave JJ standing in the pasture for a year, go out and throw a saddle on him and he's just as easy going and laid back as if I'd been riding him every week. So much for the 'crazy' TB stereotype. JJ never got that memo! :lol:


----------



## littleequestrianthings (Oct 18, 2013)

Sahara said:


> What a silly notion. Everyone knows Paints are the best.


hhahaha oh yes. I hate how in hunter flat classes I always get last just b/c Cade's a paint and she doesn't compare to the big chestnut and bay horses


----------



## Viranh (Apr 7, 2013)

I think that discriminating on color is even more stupid. I've seen horses placed lower just because they have paint coloring, or have some appy spotting. I've seen some really nice horses that had the misfortune of being spotted not place well because I guess the judges didn't like them. I personally don't like the color, but a good horse is a good horse, and color often has little to do with conformation and athletic talent for a discipline like breed may. Not all colored horses are QH based. I've seen colored horses bred for all sorts of disciplines. Art Deco, anyone?


----------



## mrstorres2566 (Apr 25, 2013)

Kayty said:


> Looks like my old fresh ottb didn't get the memo about being hot-headed and a hard keeper. He was the quietest thing I've had the pleasure of owning, and got fat off the whiff of an oily rag


LOL, that's why I said 'tend to bend'. I know not all are, just the majority I have come across.


----------



## NeryLibra (Oct 9, 2013)

There's so many good points here but I'll put it into human terms. Let's take a professional carpenter and a football player, ignore their race, and simply look at their jobs.

Cody Carpenter can build you whatever you want, with whatever wood you want, in whatever size you want, and make it pretty. Cody C plays football with his friends, and he's definitely an enthusiast for the sport, but that's about it. Freddy Football Player can run faster than you, throw farther than you, take tackles better than you, and trains more than you'd ever want to in one week, in the course of one day. Sure, he builds birdhouses in his spare time, but no one said they were professionally done. It's just a hobby.

Boil that down to "blood-lines" as you would if you were purchasing a horse, or these two mens' services. Cody C's family has been in the carpentry business for the last century. He comes from a long line of well-educated men that are _known _for their beautiful carvings and creations. You might say wood-chips run through his blood and sawdust feeds his imagination. That is his bloodline. That is what he was "bred" to do. (For the sake of this example, I pull inspiration off of someone I knew who claimed to be born and bred for carpentry.)

Freddy Football Player comes from a different spectrum. His bloodlines may not have been proven football players in the years before he was born, but the people in his family were superior at running, catching and throwing compared to the other families around them. He's a diamond in the rough, but he's predisposed to being better at football than say, professional carpentry. 

Now, you're looking through these guys' carpentry portfolios and you're considering buying their services to make you a custom built bed-frame. Freddy F's portfolio is cute. It's got some decent bird-houses and a stick project he helped his child with. Cody C's portfolio is impressive, it displays elaborate work on various wooden projects, including bed-frames and custom-build dressers. Consider this portfolio part of the mens' pedigrees and bloodlines. In the end, you choose Cody C's services over Freddy F's services. Why? Because when it comes down to it, carpentry is what Cody was meant to do and what he excels at, whereas Freddy F just enjoys the aspect of working with his hands.

Does that make you "breed" racist toward Freddy F? No. It doesn't. It shows that you took the time and carefully chose the person you were going to invest time and money into to get the best bed-frame for your money. You chose between two options; someone excellent at carpentry compared to a hobby-joe just looking to make a few bucks off of his developing skills.

Now say you're trying to get a famous football player to come to your son's party - your first thought is going to be with Freddy F, right? Because he already has the two major components that you need. 1) He's famous and 2) he's a professional football player. Best of both worlds. Sure, Cody C is great at playing with his friends! But it's not how he makes a living and therefore, it doesn't suit your personal needs. Are you "breed" racist in this scenario? No. You're not.

Apply the finesse that Cody C needs to that of a Warmblood or a Thoroughbred and the brute force/strength that Freddy F needs to that of a QH or a Paint. You want dressage and you want to go to the highest levels? You're looking for a proven Thoroughbred/Warmblood, with a good line behind it, that's got the means to take you where you want to go. Its ancestors were all high-achieving horses, it itself has major potential. Are you breed racist? No. You're realistically looking at answers to your demand.

You want to go on the rodeo circuit, calf ropin' and barrel racing? You're looking for a proven QH with the pedigree and bloodlines to take you where you want to go. Its ancestors are all proven, have all had miles put on them and won buckles, it's been selectively bred to have good hind-quarters with the desired gaits, strides, and temperaments. Are you breed racist? No. You're realistically looking at answers for your demands.

Is anyone else who realistically looks to lineage and pedigree to determine whether or not they want a horse or what they can do with that horse a breed racist? No. They're looking for realistic answers to their demands. Are the people who flaunt good pedigrees and bloodlines in your face breed racist? Sure, some of them can be. Some might just be snotty and want to have the best of the best in the eyes of everyone else (those folks never tend to be happy.) Are they worth getting worked up over? No, not really. You like your horse, correct? Go on with that knowledge and let idiots be idiots.

Every horse can do any job given to it, just like Cody C can play football with his friends and Freddy F can build his birdhouses. Not every horse can excel at ever job its given. Just like Freddy F may never become a professional carpenter and Cody C will never become a professional football player. Horses were bred with a sole purpose, breeds were created to generalize a group of horses sharing the exact qualities of one another and in order to identify what that group of horses was best at and most desirable for. 

Pedigrees were made in order for humans to look back at a general history of the horse's ancestors and get a gist of what that horse was good at and whether or not that horse has any use in _that person's lifestyle choices._ It doesn't mean that the horse itself is useless if one person turns it down because the horse has no purpose being in that one person's life, it just means that the horse is an unrealistic purchase for that particular person. I wouldn't go out and buy a draft horse because a draft horse's skills are useless in my world. I'm not extremely overweight so I don't need a big horse to haul me around. I don't drive carts or plow fields so I don't need something that can pull something heavy. Does that mean that I'm a breed racist? No. I'm not. I like draft breeds, they're pretty and they make for good eye-candy, they're sweet, gentle, and they have their uses to those who need them. But for me _personally _they have no use or place in my world. So I'm not going to own one or buy one.

And no, a pedigree shouldn't be the sole defining factor in a horse's price tag, and the amount of money spent on a horse shouldn't define how "good" that horse is. It has to prove itself, its ground manners, and it has to find it foothold in the world. But it does play a key role in helping a prospective buyer determine whether it'd even fit the purpose the owner has for a horse. 

Remember, they're not cozy little house pets no matter how much we love on them or want them to be our "bestest buddies," they were domesticated so that they could work for humans, doing tasks such as hauling buggies and carts, plowing fields, carting around their handlers or dead carcasses, or whatever else their job is. They have to have a job (even something as monotonous as lessoning students) and every job has a pedigree or bloodline associated with it. Naturally, there's going to be some judgements passed and generalizations made. Nobody is going to force you to purchase a horse with a ridiculously high price tag that stems only from bloodline, either. So if it really upsets you that much, just walk right by. 

(PS sorry for the novella. Lol. Cookies if you read this all.)


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> My first and second horses were Arabians. I go so tired of people telling me how "crazy" Arabians were. It really grated on my nerves. But I came to peace with it when I realized that the people who were trashing them were afraid of their own horses and hardly ever rode. My Arabians carried me through city streets to trails on a local mountain preserve......mostly riding alone. And they took really good care of me because I was a total beginner who never had lessons.
> 
> So I came to realize that the trash talkers never did half the stuff with their horses as I did with my Arabians, so who were they to talk?
> 
> ...


Sorry but when it comes to Arabs they have more then their fair share of nutters. I am not scared of my horses, exactly the opposite in fact. However when I owned and showed an Arab, my lad was lovely but I would not have got on over 70 % of the other horses in that showring. In the 1970s in the uk the Arab was the most popular an versatile breed, then they started breeding skinny legged dippy headed morons who didn't have enough space for their brains. This resulted in a severe decline in versitility and popularity of the breed. Recently there has been a movement back to the more useful Arab that is very intelligent.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

faye said:


> Sorry but when it comes to Arabs they have more then their fair share of nutters. I am not scared of my horses, exactly the opposite in fact. However when I owned and showed an Arab, my lad was lovely but I would not have got on over 70 % of the other horses in that showring. In the 1970s in the uk the Arab was the most popular an versatile breed, then they started breeding skinny legged dippy headed morons who didn't have enough space for their brains. This resulted in a severe decline in versitility and popularity of the breed. Recently there has been a movement back to the more useful Arab that is very intelligent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And that is true with most breeds - which is why papers, or at least knowing the ancestry, is important when selecting a horse (assuming, of course, that one has knowledge of bloodlines).

We have bred such overspecialized bloodlines in most breeds that it becomes difficult to even call some breeds a breed because there is such a huge variance in conformation and ability within the "breed", depending upon whatever discipline a bloodline is manipulated to excel at...


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

faye said:


> Sorry but when it comes to Arabs they have more then their fair share of nutters. I am not scared of my horses, exactly the opposite in fact. However when I owned and showed an Arab, my lad was lovely but I would not have got on over 70 % of the other horses in that showring. In the 1970s in the uk the Arab was the most popular an versatile breed, then they started breeding skinny legged dippy headed morons who didn't have enough space for their brains. This resulted in a severe decline in versitility and popularity of the breed. Recently there has been a movement back to the more useful Arab that is very intelligent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have no experience with show Arabs. And I'm sure mine were culls from someone's breeding program. They weren't super typey like you would see in the show ring. But they were very sane and sensible. They were my first and second horses and I had never had a professional lesson (until recently, almost 20 years later). I am also a chicken by nature. So, I don't know what to tell you, but there ARE incredibly wonderful, sane Arabians out there. One that can be trusted with a beginner out on the trails with no previous lessons on the beginner's part. 

There are nutters in all breeds. I have seen some Quarter Horses I wouldn't trust. And a Paint that was probably the worst horse I have ever bought (she didn't stay around for long). But on Arabians, I am 2 for 2 with owning wonderful horses!

Also, with Arabians in the show ring, they seem to like to have them fired up and "hot." I remember in the 80's going out to Arabian farms on Sunday afternoons for their public showings and they encouraged the horses to prance and show off......with fire extinguishers, plastic bags on whips, etc. In other words, part of the firey attitude of the show horses comes from training. They weren't training for calmness, they were training for flash and presence. A calm attitude wasn't being rewarded or trained for in those horses.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Faceman said:


> And that is true with most breeds - which is why papers, or at least knowing the ancestry, is important when selecting a horse (assuming, of course, that one has knowledge of bloodlines).


I have never bought a horse based on papers. Some of my horses come with papers, some don't. But that never factored into my decision. I buy a horse based on the horse in front of me......training, disposition, etc.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

AQHSam said:


> ...The owner buys a border collie. And not just ANY border collie. One that comes from agility proven breeding. Because this next dog is not so much a family pet; it is an investment in ribbons...


fftopic:

Well, not entirely off-topic. But Border Collies were bred to herd, and it took a lot of work to develop a dog who could single-handed bring 100+ sheep off a hillside a mile away - something a friend's dog will do, and why he now believes a Border Collie is more valuable than 6 human sheepherders. To throw those generations of selection away and turn one into a dog who is just agile...arghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And it isn't entirely off-topic, because horse breeds, like dog breeds, are selected for a purpose. I like my Arabian mare and really would like to someday enter her in a local barrel racing competition...at our current rate of progress, maybe when she is 20. But she has long legs meant for stretching out and going miles. We're working on turns, but nothing in her build is suitable for making tight turns around a barrel. In fact, being a stereotypical Arabian mare, she'd probably ask me WHY I wanted to go around barrels and suggest that making 10 laps of the arena would be much more satisfying!

I like her in part for her mental attitude, but that mental attitude has made turning her into a semi-safe trail horse a real challenge. And she couldn't work a cow to save her soul - it would be straight to hell with her, if cutting cattle was needed to enter horse heaven!

Instead of rejecting breeding, we ought to delight in it. Provided it doesn't turn Border Collies into just agile dogs...:evil:


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

trailhorserider said:


> I have never bought a horse based on papers. Some of my horses come with papers, some don't. But that never factored into my decision. I buy a horse based on the horse in front of me......training, disposition, etc.


Which is OK if you check out the horse thoroughly enough to make a reasonably intelligent assessment of its abilities and disposition - or if you are buying a proven horse. Unfortunately, as you can tell from the host of mismatches you constantly see in these forums, most people either don't check them out thoroughly or don't have the expertise to do so - or the previous owners didn't use the horse for anything other than a pasture ornament or occasional pleasure riding. For the person that is buying an unproven horse and doesn't have the expertise to evaluate form to function, knowing the ancestry can at least let them know what the horse is bred to do - if anything. There is never a guaranty - a horse is what it is, papers or no papers, but papers, or at least knowing the ancestry, is better than buying a horse blind, which is exactly what the majority of people do...


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> I have no experience with show Arabs. And I'm sure mine were culls from someone's breeding program. They weren't super typey like you would see in the show ring. But they were very sane and sensible.
> 
> There are nutters in all breeds. I have seen some Quarter Horses I wouldn't trust. And a Paint that was probably the worst horse I have ever bought (she didn't stay around for long). But on Arabians, I am 2 for 2 with owning wonderful horses!
> 
> Also, with Arabians in the show ring, they seem to like to have them fired up and "hot." I remember in the 80's going out to Arabian farms on Sunday afternoons for their public showings and they encouraged the horses to prance and show off......with fire extinguishers, plastic bags on whips, etc. In other words, part of the firey attitude of the show horses comes from training. They weren't training for calmness, they were training for flash and presence. A calm attitude wasn't being rewarded or trained for in those horses.


I'm not saying there are not nutters in all breeds what I was saying was that the arab reputation is based on fact. Fact is that for a long time the arabs were bred to be dippy headed morons by a lot of breeders and hence the breed suffered with disproportionate amounts of nutters, the nutters are the rule rather than the exception.

I will say it is getting better but fairly slowly.

I show M&M's and coloureds now but still keep an eye on the arabs. I still wouldnt ride 70% of the arabs in the ring but would quite happily get on most of the M&M's and coloureds.

My arab was from old Polish lines, he was ace, very practical and I did everything on him from teaching begginers to XC but he was the exception rather than the rule when it came to arabs.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I understand where OP is coming from....I have a Paint horse that I was looking at having trained. I have little experience with stock horses, but I had him going nicely w-t-c, nice turns, stops, etc. I thought he would make a cute reiner, or at least working cow horse. EVERY trainer asked what his bloodlines were. Then shook their head. I took him to a SHOT clinic, and the clinicians LOVED him!! NEVER asked what the bloodlines were, just accepted him on HIS merits. And several participants asked about breeding to him. A good horse is a good horse, ESPECIALLY a gelding....

Nancy


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"the nutters are the rule rather than the exception"

I've only got a sample size of 3 Arabians I've known well. Lilly liked to be told 'please & thank you', but she was gentle, sane and very patient. Trooper is 3/4 Arabian. His Appy sire was used on the roughest cattle because he was a very aggressive stallion who loved a fight and who didn't mind biting his rider if he got a chance. It took years for the sire to accept humans as a plus. But Trooper's personality came from his purebred Arabian dam. He takes care of my youngest daughter. As an ex-ranch horse, it probably isn't surprising that he is level headed on the trails.

Mia is the stereotypical "Arabian mare". She was very nervous, very intense and spooked a lot. After a lot of work, as in a couple of years of work, she is starting to calm down. There are even signs of a slightly lethargic, lazy mare starting to peep out. She may or may not have had some nervous tendencies from breeding, but I'm increasingly convinced it was 'trained' in to her by owners who didn't ride her and who left her to live in a corral. 

Mia needed exercise. She needed to get out of the corral. She needed to move & see things. It is like when I tried to adopt a Border Collie. The woman who did our home inspection told me the dog I was interested in was too crazy for me to handle. She also admitted she kept him in a crate 23.5 hours a day because he was nuts. I told her I'd be nuts too, if someone kept me in a crate for 23.5 hours a day! I failed the home inspection...had a bad attitude and wouldn't mesh well with Border Collies. But don't tell the Border Collie I own right now. He thinks I'm great. :?

If Mia had been ponied out at 3 and ridden out at 4, I think she would have been uncommonly sane at 6. Getting a total newbie owner at 7 and not being properly broken until 10 did Mia no favors. I think a horse bred for endurance needs a level-headed rider to exercise him and introduce him to the world in steps he can handle until he becomes confident.

I don't think Arabians are nuts. I do think they need more exercise, and of the right type, than many other horses. Having nearly ruined Mia at one point, I think many Arabians need a horseman, but too often get just a rider. And I think Arabians need trail work.

All IMHO, with an admitted small sample size.


----------



## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

I may disagree and a horse not doing a certain disciplined well. My bf has a 16hh TB gelding who can win any Gaming event with my 6'4" fb riding him. He is not a stocky horse but he will always place in barrels, poles, keyhole and the horse will even jump something if asked. This horse is 27 and he still can win. Some horses cant do high level dressage because of breed gaits I understand that, hence why no pure bred Arabian (correct me if on wrong on this one) has won an Olympic level event in dressage. But who is to say a quarter horse cant? Or even a Mustang?


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

KigerQueen, no one is saying there isn't a single quarter horse cross in the world that can do PSG dressage, for example. The point is that they're not bred for that, so why search for a horse that will have hurdles to overcome due to their breeding? If I want an upper level event horse, I won't look for quarter horses. I'll look for Thoroughbred crosses and Irish Sport Horses, because that's what they're bred for! Quarter horses that compete in upper levels are the exception, not the rule.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

A Quarter Horse is not bred for the motions desired in dressage. That doesn't prevent them from training in dressage, but they are going to be hard pressed to win at the upper levels against horses specifically bred for that purpose for generations. I like my horse, but she wasn't bred to run barrels, cut cattle, or perform collected gaits. She could compete in barrel racing or dressage for fun, but she would have no chance of going to the top. Why would that surprise or offend anyone?


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

None of my arabians are nutters. What ever that means..
The nutters are the exception not the rule IMO and from my experience. Those horses bred for halter or park are hot and that is to be expected.
I have mares only advanced riders can ride that doesnt make them crazy just sensitive and spirited. If those two things are too much for some to handle then an arabian or any other "hot" breed is not for them.
As bsms posted my arabians when ridden and turned out are not too much to handle. Bring a couple of them in from the pasture after being idle for a month or two then yes they can be a handful. Harness that energy and ride for 10-15 miles then they calm down.
I also have mares that can be idle for months throw a saddle on them and they are as calm as a plow horse. Those are the ones I dont like riding. Shalom


----------



## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

My mother bred arabs, so I've known about 8 of them well, and none were "nutters" (one was backed at 14 and could be ridden out straight off without a glance at anything) but I have a friend who had one and the way she rode certainly made hers appear a bit mad.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

dbarabians said:


> None of my arabians are nutters. What ever that means..
> The nutters are the exception not the rule IMO and from my experience. Those horses bred for halter or park are hot and that is to be expected.
> I have mares only advanced riders can ride that doesnt make them crazy just sensitive and spirited. If those two things are too much for some to handle then an arabian or any other "hot" breed is not for them.
> As bsms posted my arabians when ridden and turned out are not too much to handle. Bring a couple of them in from the pasture after being idle for a month or two then yes they can be a handful. Harness that energy and ride for 10-15 miles then they calm down.
> I also have mares that can be idle for months throw a saddle on them and they are as calm as a plow horse. Those are the ones I dont like riding. Shalom


When it comes to Arabs, IMO the majority of supposed "nutters" are actually normal Arabs people just don't understand. If you don't recognize their orneriness and sense of humor, it is easy to think of them as nuts. Arabs will mess with you and then turn around and laugh right in your face. Sometimes what they think is funny really is - and other times what they think is funny is a PITA. Personally, I think they are a hoot...


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Jeez for 90% of the horse owning population, find a horse that you love and do what you want with it.

EG Hafflinger, born to pull, yes, but can do this






or this






or this







No, not every Haffy could do anything, but it is to do with training as well as breed. 

I can't understand 'hating' on any breed, I wouldn't choose to buy some breeds, others I like, my quietest horse is an Arab, my spookiest horse is her daughter. The safest horse I have here is a QH, but many years ago I owned one that was downright dangerous.


----------

