# This is why you should always use safety snaps in cross ties!!



## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Glad your boy is ok but geez...I love dogs but that is not a good mix. :evil: If the dog can't leave the horses strictly alone it shouldn't EVER be allowed around them.


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Thank you!! Yeah she doesnt allow any other dogs on the property but let's hers run loose. The dog thot he was maybe herding my guy cause he was a boarder collie, other dog is a small black lap. Earlier, before this happened the dogs where chasing my trainers horses in the pastures and I had to keep chasing them away!


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## LittleZeasel (Oct 22, 2011)

Sooo... the BO was not around, but let her dogs roam the Barn area? Unsupervised?


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Yeah! I guess maybe to guard the property!? So stupid!


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Wow scary so sorry this happened!! Glad to hear your boy is ok!


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

What?! That's insane. I don't even let MY dogs roam on MY property or in MY barn when I'm home, let alone when I'm away. I would be ****ED. You pay to keep your horse in a safe place where he is comfortable, yes?
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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Thank you!! I just am glad it wasnt worse, like the dog biting him! Or him fully choking, or breaking his neck! Loosing and eye! 

All things considered we got out clean!


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

Thank god he is alright, but I never really believed that cross ties are nessisary. A horse should be mature enough to stand on its own without having the cross ties baby-sitting them. Seeing as you have faced the dangers of the cross ties maybe you will choose not to use them.

Although there is absolutely NO reason that dog should have been running loose if it is that misbehaved. If they didn't appologize I would be seriously displeased with them.

(I train dogs, and that is just rediculous. I also train my horse like I do my dogs, so my horse knows the stay command. He will not move a muscle and I can just walk away and get my tack.)


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Klassic Superstar said:


> Thank you!! I just am glad it wasnt worse, like the dog biting him! Or him fully choking, or breaking his neck! Loosing and eye!
> 
> All things considered we got out clean!


My oldest "baby" a 20 year old QH mare did lose an eye from a cross tying accident. We RARELY use them anymore... But occasionally they are a good aid. Like when using the clippers on my Percheron's mane. She is a 2 year old, so she is unpredictable as it is, and with clippers in hand, it just helps with control. All of our cross ties have easy release for the event of a panic or emergency. Again, I would be raising a stink. That's your hard earned money that paid for the dog to be in the barn and for your horse to be terrified.
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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Thank you everyone! Yes this dog is gonna be in big trouble if I see it again anywhere near the barn! Chasing the horses in turnout, then this! Next time it happens I'm calling the cops! Ugh! I'm lucky I didn't get hurt withnhow bad Oliver was struggling! 

BITD- I very much agree about not needing to use them if the horse is well behaved. I will now not be using them!! At least not those ones! 

Sarah, I'm so sorry your horse lost an eye!


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Oh thanks  It was 6 years ago, and she gets along just fine with one eye! In fact, I was just out trail riding and puddle jumping with her today! It gives her character. But make sure to talk to the BO about this so yours and no one elses horses end up injured. Its a traumatic experience for any horse and should not happen!!
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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Oh trust me! My trainer will be out first thing in the morning, she called and left a message like I did. She will be knocking on their front door, and talking to the manager!


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

Good!! Let me know how that goes... You've peaked my interest!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Haha I will for sure, I got ahold of my trainers chiro that's she uses for her horses. So she is going to fully check him out. I will also be doing massage work on his neck


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## kim_angel (Oct 16, 2007)

Scary indeed! Glad he is ok. :shock:


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

If they don't contain the dogs, I'd be looking for a new barn. The last thing I would want would be a dog chasing my horse while I'm in the saddle. As for calling the cops, not such a good idea. It could cause more trouble then you want.

What you described is one reason I always carry a sharp, easy to open knife with me when I'm out with the horses.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I rarely use cross ties too. I just like my horses to stand where/when I tell them too. BUT, if I do use them, they either have safety latches or the clips are tied on with baling twine, which also works well, or use a safety halter. I have had too many horses get sppoked by something and scramble in the cross ties over the years, so would just rather not chance it. Besides, my guys are such slaves to their tummys that if they DID get sppoked and run, they would only go as far as the first blade of grass.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I agree with Frankn, All our cross ties have safety snaps BUT, more importantly, they are tied to the barn with baling twine. If the horse pulls hard the twine will break loose and the horse still has the web ties attached for easy catching. If you use heavy rope or chain (yuck!) then have the twine on the snaps instead.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I've never really used crossties because I think they put everything in a bad position, and because of the way they are secured, if there isn't slack they can be hard to undo, hard to get to without danger, and will just cause more panic. 

Not good about the dog - but really if its the first time this has happened it could just be an accident. Not saying it excuses anything but accidents happen to everyone, dogs get out, horses get out, it happens. Everyone's jumping on this barn owner, but I wouldn't believe that everyone on here had never had an animal escape accidentally. 

I always tie with one rope, a quick release not that will pull free, and if not, I know given enough pressure the rope will snap, crosstie chains don't though. But with one rope, I think a horse is more likely to calm, they can turn and look, swing around. 

I'm happy everyone is safe though.


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

I've used cross ties in the past, and may use them again in the future...however, most people don't use them correctly. I'm borrowing some information a friend gave me on proper setup of crossties...the college I went to had their ties set up like this as well


> Cross ties should hang straight down, so need to be attached to a structural 'overhead beam'. They can be anywhere from 2' to 4' apart. 2' is better, but 4' is still okay and allows horses and people to walk between them w/o getting banged. That is the main reason why people put them on walls...they find it an inconvenience to have them hanging down in an aisle way...but I'll get to another point about that.
> 
> The reason you do it this way is so the horse never feels restricted in its head. They never feel 'trapped'. The main reason horses panic when tied is because of the blind spot behind them. Whether single tied or cross tied, it's what they can't see that usually sets them off. When they get nervous, they try and turn their heads and can't. In wall cross ties, they hit the end, they feel trapped, can't see, panic ensues.
> 
> ...


I've noticed a lot of people around where I live that use cross ties have them hooked into the wall, at eye level to the horses.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

A guy in our barn set up his own cross-ties, and even though his mare stands completely still regardless, he still uses them. A little frustrating because I have to duck under them to get from the tack room to my horse's stall. I never use cross-ties. I can see them being useful for a farrier but not really on other occasions unless a horse is being trained, etc.

As for dogs, our barn owner has an Airedale and she got her head run over when she was a puppy (not completely, but enough to make her a tad... slow). She's too dumb to bark at horses. The worst she does is halfway bury herself in arena sand and fall asleep... She has free roam of the property but she's harmless and spends most of her time out of the way.

Sorry this happened - I would be livid!


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> I agree with Frankn, All our cross ties have safety snaps BUT, more importantly, they are tied to the barn with baling twine. If the horse pulls hard the twine will break loose and the horse still has the web ties attached for easy catching. If you use heavy rope or chain (yuck!) then have the twine on the snaps instead.


Took the words out of my to-be post 

It's an easy improvement YOU can do, don't have to bug to have new snaps installed or anything. Just carry some twine in your pocket and use it when you gotta. Back before Indie was bomb proof with dogs and children running at her feet (Oh the joys of big families!), I used twine so she didn't end up breaking my good ropes or the fence.


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Thank you everyone for your input! I was just so upset when it happened, still am! But feeling better now. 

I looked around at all the other cross ties in the bars, 3 other sets all are done up in some other un safe way, really makes me upset! I'm. Working student for my trainer and I work with her clients young Irish sport horses and they are big and their owners have put a lot of trust and money into their training with us as well as traust of of taking the best care of their babies too! This may sound strange, but I have to say I am glad it happened to my gelding as he seemed un phased once I got him loose and walked him around a bit. I don't know or want to think about how much worse it could have been with one of our clients horses! 

As for leaving the barn from this, I'm not. Like someone else pointed out could have been the first time this dog had done this and hopefully when the bRn owner and manager gets there ears filled by my trainer about how much worse this could have been.

I did look to see how Hightower the hook and eye scree thing is from the ground, it's above the door way, so Bout 7 feet up? 

I'm just glad this didn't happen to the two very small girls who whe in the cross ties with there ponies just before me! 

My trainer will be letting me know how it goes with the BO and BM today's nd checking Oliver out as well. 

I must have really ul Ed so e muscles in my back and neck nd my right hip is pretty sore, everything happened so fast I do t know why it is that my body feels like it got run over!

Thanks again everyone!
I will most likely be tacking up in my stall from now on haha


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## PerchiesKisses (Dec 6, 2010)

I've never had a need for cross ties before, but if I ever felt inclined to use them, I think the method BlackCricket posted would make the most sense to me.

At my barn we just don't use them. We use a single tie against a wall. We also have three dogs who run around loose all the time, and the sheppard-mix has been known to chase the horses on occassion - although she would NEVER do it when someone is working with the horse, and only ever does it when we're moving the horses out of the front yard at which point she can be rather helpful in funnelling them into the correct pastures. It's nice to have them loose as we are right on the edge of the bush and they are great at alerting us to any wild animals that might be happening by.

That being said, if a dog is NOT well behaved it should not be allowed loose without supervision - I would have been livid in your situation. It is definitely unfortunate what happened - I'm glad everyone is okay, and I hope your horse has no lasting issues from this incident.


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

This dog was so annoying before the whole cross tie incedent even happened! I saw the barn manager call for them once in the mooning whe at the BO house. 

The dogs where going under the hot wire in the temp pasture we have that I had turned 3 clients horses into, making them run and slip and slid, then when I finally yelled atbthedogs long enough they went off. Later they where in barn pulling horse toys (jolly balls and what not) while I was doing water buckets and hanging blankets up! Then when the kids and some haul in riders where in the arena working there horses the borader collie kept trying to creep in! 


Supposedly the BO decided to change rules after my trainer moved her hors and clients horses o this place about dogs, as she NASA small dog who needs some around the clock care and is older. So she would have him in a large kennel in our tack room (each trainer gets huge tack room) and the dog was content and slept all day in the kennel! No not allowed they're rude dogs are allowed to roam free doing these things....
Not fun


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

First off, I'd have shot that friggin dog long before now if he's a chaser. LOL! 2nd, that's why I reallllly don't like cross ties and avoid them whenever possible. If a cross tie area is the only area provided to tie a horse, I generally only use 1 tie. I have a horse who got "tuned up" in cross ties and when I use 1 she's fine, hook the 2nd and she will flip over backwards every time.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> First off, I'd have shot that friggin dog long before now if he's a chaser..


Advice which would have you in jail or facing a stiff fine - let alone a possible law suit. 

Talking about all the problems that the dogs are giving you really doesn't accomplish anything. If you think it's unsafe and the BO isn't going to do anything about it, then leave. Simple. It's her place, not yours.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Our barn owner has 3 dogs - they never bother the horses. Pepper is a little fellow - looks like a parti-colored Cairne terrier mix - cute as a button. He sniffs the horses sometimes but that is it. Candy is a chocolate lab and Ginger is a golden lab. They are very sweet dogs and I played catch with Ginger today. That is just terrific for us but if the dogs were bothering my horses or scaring the bejeezes out of me I would have a real problem with it. 

A good friend brings his dog on our trail rides. OMG she runs all over the place and Biscuit was charging her a few months ago and getting more and more upset til I got off of him to calm him down. A month and a half ago we were coming up the trail lickety split due to a storm and here she comes running right up behind Biscuit when he was either cantering or in a fast extended trot...he kicked out at her. Last time we went 2 weeks ago she ran under another friend's green horse and she reared and went over :shock: and thank God he wasn't hurt. 

I think any dog that won't heel on the trail should be let behind!:evil:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

iridehorses said:


> Advice which would have you in jail or facing a stiff fine - let alone a possible law suit.
> 
> Talking about all the problems that the dogs are giving you really doesn't accomplish anything. If you think it's unsafe and the BO isn't going to do anything about it, then leave. Simple. It's her place, not yours.


 
Ummmm, I wasn't complaining, just said I'd have shot the dog. And in OK anyone's dog who chases or attacks livestock is totally liable to be shot with NO repercussion on the shooter. Folks around here do not take kindly to loose dogs harrying the livestock.

Oh and yes, I would have moved the first time I saw the dog harrying anything, not waited til it got my horse.


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

If I where to leave, what example would that set for my friends at the barn? I also just got him moved to this barn to work with my trainer and accidents happened, I got a kind appolgy email and call from the BO this morning. My horse was not bit by this dog, simply spooked and in a bad place when it happened, also keep in mine he is only 5 and only had one year of human handling so it's a very natural reaction for my horse, I am not going to take away the amazing training he is getting, along with lots of pasture turnout (hard to find in my area!) 

He isn't scared of cross ties even after this, dogs will be dogs and horses will be horses. So thing that is out of some people's hands


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> And in OK anyone's dog who chases or attacks livestock is totally liable to be shot with NO repercussion on the shooter. Folks around here do not take kindly to loose dogs harrying the livestock.


Even on the owner's property?


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

Oh my gosh! Poor horse  I would have been so ****ed ......

This is exactly why I use just regular baling twine for cross ties. It doesn't look all that pretty, but it is guaranteed to snap and there is nothing heavy on the end to hit them on the recoil.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

That's why I ground tie. I find if the horse has the option to leave, he stays. Horses in cross ties have flipped over backwards and smashed their withers. I'd rather mine took off out the barn door cuz he won't go far.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Sorry this happened!

Didn't read all of the posts so forgive me if I repeat something. lol

Have you tried attaching string to his halter? I do this to my mare's halter and I've never had her have an incident like that and she pulls back all the time. Just get some bailing twine and loop it around on the sides of the halter. Then he'll break the string, not the halter or the crossties!


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Thanks for sharing your story, I'm sorry this happened to you and your horse.
Thanks for everyone's suggestions on how to prevent this from happening. While I have never had problems in crossties and mine are made of adjustable strapping with safty snaps, this morning I am adding twine to halter ends. Your incident might save my horse. Again thanks for sharing.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Ummmm, I wasn't complaining, just said I'd have shot the dog. And in OK anyone's dog who chases or attacks livestock is totally liable to be shot with NO repercussion on the shooter. Folks around here do not take kindly to loose dogs harrying the livestock.
> 
> Oh and yes, I would have moved the first time I saw the dog harrying anything, not waited til it got my horse.


Here in Germany if a forestmeister or farmer sees a dog attacking or DISTURBING wildlife/livestock they can shoot to kill with no repercussions. I agree with Dreamcatcher, if the dog was coming towards it, I'd have aimed a good ol' boot at it to get it away from my horse.

Perhaps my termanology isn't the best? Is cross ties where you tie your horse up either side? I have to do this with my mare as she is too long to stand attached to one side, and I don't trust her as yet to let her go. I use one dog clip style lead rope, and another quick release. She had learnt a quick tug would free her, so, she can get off the quick release, but then she's stuck. She now knows not to. We're not allowed to use bailing twine, however I am looking to invest in those wee quick release strap things, so I tie her up in a leather headcollar. Nylon ones won't break in an emergency...


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

My BO has........six dogs? :lol: But there are usually seven or eight at the barn from other boarders.

Luckily they are all pretty well-behaved around the horses. Occasionally I'll see one of the Australian Shepards chasing a horse, but it's rare.

The goats, on the other hand......
THOSE THINGS are the ones that freak out the horses. I was leading Sun through the barn aisle the other day and Max, the male goat, reared up and hit Sunny on the side with his horns! And the little goat, Ginger, rubs her horns and Sun's legs. :lol:

They're cute goats, but Sunny hates them with good reason. :lol:
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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

We used cross ties without incident for years....till one day Beauseant spooked at...something and flipped out....nearly broke his neck before the cross tie snapped. 

We passed it off as a once in a lifetime occurance....till he had another incident. He still has his wolf teeth for some reason, and he chews on the snaps of the crossties sometimes, and one day he hooked one of his wolf teeth in the snap and flipped out again....this time nearly pulled the tooth out, it was all bloody....

so, we don't use them on him anymore....

He and epona are learning to stand for their grooming. Without being tied at all

As for dogs, our property owner has two. A boarder collie who is outside alot, and an american spitz mini who is rarely outside.... The spitz has learned to avoid the horses after Beau reared up and nearly squashed him for barking at him...

the boarder collie ...she's weird. usually she ignores the horses but often will run along the fence or sit by the fence with her ball and bark at Beau, trying to get him to play with her.... he has chased her when she came in his pasture, so she usually wont go in when he's there.

The neighbors have an ancient black lab who comes over to visit. He is as docile as a lamb....never barks or chases....but Beau HATES him as he hates all dogs.....and has kicked him in the side once. the dog just grunted and stood there staring at him... so when he comes over, we keep the paddock gate shut so he cannot get into the horse pasture.... and he is too fat to fit through the fencing. He's old, and very slow....and we worry about his safety


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

iridehorses said:


> Even on the owner's property?


Yes, even the owner's dog on the owner's property because HARRYING livestock is the key here. This is a very much cattleman's state and so dogs that chase ANYTHING are fair game. Actually, I don't know anyone here who would not have shot their own dog for causing that incident. I know that sounds harsh, but a dog hassling the livestock (cows) can run the profit right off of them in no time and I've seen myself how much damage (lost $$$) 1 little dog can cause if it gets in the hen house.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

DuffyDuck said:


> Here in Germany if a forestmeister or farmer sees a dog attacking or DISTURBING wildlife/livestock they can shoot to kill with no repercussions. I agree with Dreamcatcher, if the dog was coming towards it, I'd have aimed a good ol' boot at it to get it away from my horse.
> 
> Perhaps my termanology isn't the best? Is cross ties where you tie your horse up either side? I have to do this with my mare as she is too long to stand attached to one side, and I don't trust her as yet to let her go. I use one dog clip style lead rope, and another quick release. She had learnt a quick tug would free her, so, she can get off the quick release, but then she's stuck. She now knows not to. We're not allowed to use bailing twine, however I am looking to invest in those wee quick release strap things, so I tie her up in a leather headcollar. Nylon ones won't break in an emergency...












Here's a horse in cross ties (just a random picture not one of mine, not my barn either). Typically they aren't set up correctly, which is another reason I don't like to use them. I had a mare decide to flip out in the ties once and no one could get to the quick release snaps, the builder had put them up at the top of the posts (12 feet in the air) and no one could reach them. The actual 'ties' were chains and didn't break so it was pretty tense for a while. Ever since then, I've been very adamant about not using cross ties.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks Dreamcatcher Arabians, I was right! I have mind tied at my elbow level, so again, quick release.

I think they're brill personally and give the rider/groomer more security as compared to a horse tied on a single lead rope.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

DuffyDuck said:


> give the rider/groomer more security as compared to a horse tied on a single lead rope.


Yes. There is a lot of freedom with tacking up and grooming in crossties. You can move all around the horse with out having to move the horse off a wall. Bathing or hosing is easier.

We have panic snaps at both ends of our cross ties.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I would have taken my crop or a leadrope after that dog...sorry, I don't put up with behavior like that, my dog or anyone elses...the dog only added to your horse's aggravation. :evil:

Another reason I ALWAYS carry a pocket knife everywhere with me as well...you never know when you may need to cut a rope. I would rather have to replace a lead rope than my horse. :wink:

I am glad your horse is okay!


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## Clementine (Sep 24, 2009)

Bailing twine at the top ends of the cross ties is an easy fix to keep this from happening. If the horse pulls just enough, it will snap. Safety snaps on cross ties often don't release when they really need to.


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## CopperPenny18 (Nov 6, 2011)

I am so glad your horse is alright!

Break-away ties are sooo important!!! Except for the fact that my gelding has figured out that if he pulls he can get loose in order to graze. He never runs off thank-fully! Yesterday while I was tacking up he pulled loose 6 times! He is soo funny!


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## KatieQ (Apr 4, 2011)

I have never used cross-ties, but was thinking of installing them in my new grooming area (which I have yet to build on the end of my barn). My boys don't pull back when tied but they do move around a lot. I thought the cross ties might help with this- am I incorrect?


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