# Sky's Pregnant and Close, I had no idea.



## Spirit Lifter (Apr 23, 2012)

OMG! What a story! I'm not qualified in any respect to comment but I would NEVER guess looking at her that she was almost ready to drop a baby!!!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

You may want to get a vet to palpate or ultrasound her. Many mares can have false pregnancies, look pregnant, act pregnant, produce milk, have "foal" movement in the sides (usually gut movement), even have false labor. No matter how experienced your neighbor is, mares can and will be tricky. You need a vet to confirm it. The vet can also give a more accurate judgement based on the foal's size.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Wow...! I'm hoping for the best if there is indeed a foal in that womb that the foal comes out nice and health and your horse is great too!


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

SpiritLifter said:


> OMG! What a story! I'm not qualified in any respect to comment but I would NEVER guess looking at her that she was almost ready to drop a baby!!!


You have no idea how bad I feel that I have not taken care of her the way she should have been this whole time. I'm guessing that is contributing to her small size. She is getting what she needs now though.



SunnyDraco said:


> You may want to get a vet to palpate or ultrasound her. Many mares can have false pregnancies, look pregnant, act pregnant, produce milk, have "foal" movement in the sides (usually gut movement), even have false labor. No matter how experienced your neighbor is, mares can and will be tricky. You need a vet to confirm it. The vet can also give a more accurate judgement based on the foal's size.


I totally get what you're saying, but the movement was way to big to just be gut movement. I have spoken to a vet on the phone to work out some things I can do for her nutritionaly, but I think I am going to wait a couple weeks to have him come out. If she is as close as our neighbor thinks, it should be any day. We did just have another foal born a few weeks ago, so everyone here is fully prepared and knows what to expect. I will probably get flamed for not wanting the vet out, and if there is something obviously wrong, I wont hesitate, but we are just "not unless it's an emergency" kind of people.


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

Well, congrats to the I didn't know band wagon...there seems to be a lot of it going around. I had a neighbors stallion jumping the fences for months I didn't know about and covered 4 of my mares. 1 we had to abort, 1 lost her's 2 weeks ago and 2 are still in foal..according to vet. both over 320 days. As for not looking very pregnant in the belly. I have one mare who carries high and one who is carrying low. I post pics here you can see the difference.
Dutches always carries more low than side to side








Divinity carries high and more side to side until right up to foaling then she'll drop....which looks like your mare is doing the same


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

Whisper22- First...your mare's coloring is so pretty  Second...could you call the guy you bought her from and see if she was around ANY studs before you bought her. Maybe you could at least find out what daddy is. I hope everything goes well! 

LadyTaurean515- both of your mares need their hooves trimmed desperately.


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## kartmom67 (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm not the best person to give advice on when she's due since I have one due to foal soon and its driving me nuts as to when, but given the size of her udder, you probably have at least a few weeks yet. I've watched my mare go from the size of your mares to double that in a few weeks time. People on here have been very helpful.


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

Divinity just had her's done 2 weeks ago and will get her's done again soon after the foal. Dutches will be done after the foal. She stresses so bad when trimming we don't want to push her right now since one foal has already been lost and vet. says they are ok til we get the foal on the ground.


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

Whisper22 said:


> You have no idea how bad I feel that I have not taken care of her the way she should have been this whole time. I'm guessing that is contributing to her small size. She is getting what she needs now though.



My mare started showing her baby-bump late too.

But, if you look at your mares udder, it could be quite a while before she have her baby, but she could just as well fill up her udder quick.

My mare is now on 300 days and has a month left for her "due date" and this is how her udder looks like.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

ladytaurean515 said:


> Well, congrats to the I didn't know band wagon...there seems to be a lot of it going around. I had a neighbors stallion jumping the fences for months I didn't know about and covered 4 of my mares. 1 we had to abort, 1 lost her's 2 weeks ago and 2 are still in foal..according to vet. both over 320 days. As for not looking very pregnant in the belly. I have one mare who carries high and one who is carrying low. I post pics here you can see the difference.
> Dutches always carries more low than side to side


I hope you're right. I've been riding her and then not feeding her enough for a pregnant mare, so I'm worried that I might have done some damage.



Piaffe said:


> Whisper22- First...your mare's coloring is so pretty  Second...could you call the guy you bought her from and see if she was around ANY studs before you bought her. Maybe you could at least find out what daddy is. I hope everything goes well!


Thank you, I am pretty excited to see the color of the baby now.
The guy I bought her from was talking about moving back to the Philippines where his wife's from in just a couple weeks from when I bought her. I'm pretty sure he's not around anymore but I could try and find him incase he's still in the US I guess.



kartmom67 said:


> I'm not the best person to give advice on when she's due since I have one due to foal soon and its driving me nuts as to when, but given the size of her udder, you probably have at least a few weeks yet. I've watched my mare go from the size of your mares to double that in a few weeks time. People on here have been very helpful.


:-o




StellaIW said:


> My mare started showing her baby-bump late too.
> 
> But, if you look at your mares udder, it could be quite a while before she have her baby, but she could just as well fill up her udder quick.
> 
> ...


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

Some mares bag up - like my mare - very early. She's started bag up 10 weeks before her "due date".

Some mares don't bag up at all - and the foal will have no milk.

Some mares bag up just before they give birth.

My vet says it's normal for them to start bag up 6-4 weeks before foaling. 

If your mare is a maiden, you can't be sure of anything. ;-)


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

So I've been trying to think of any little detail that could possibly help me figure out when she might be due. From what I can remember, the guy said he had only lived in Arizona for one month, maybe two months, and was already leaving again in a couple weeks. He came here from Michigan and I'm not sure if he brought Sky over himself or if he had her delivered. The house he was living in was in the middle of the city, on maybe a half acre. Sky only had about the size of a round pen to walk around. His entire backyard was fenced in with cement blocks, so my guess would be she got bred before they moved here, which would have been April, May, June, or possibly July. I got her coggins that was done in April 2011, and I'm not sure if they check for pregnancy in those, but it did say test results were negative. I'm guessing he had no idea she was pregnant either. 

Because she's not bagged up at all right now, and really all we're going off of is her jiggly butt, I'm going to guess a June baby. Either way it has to be here before August. 

I'll continue to post updates on her progress and feel free to throw in your own guesses for the big day.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Why don't you just get the vet out or haul her to the vet and have her palpated to know for sure?


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Why don't you just get the vet out or haul her to the vet and have her palpated to know for sure?


I don't have a truck or a trailer and the fee for a vet to come to me, in my area, is insane. I know she's pregnant and I know how to take care of her, I have our neighbor if I have any questions. If there is an obvious problem that requires a vet, I won't hesitate, but I don't mind waiting for her to foal. I know when I got her so I know the date she can't go past.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

You may be driving yourself crazy believing she is pregnant. You may be very surprised how much guts can move. Unless you get a straight push against you when you are prodding her side, I would call any movement in her belly as gut movement. Unless you witnesses strong movement down by her udders or up by her tail head, those are distinctly baby movement. Based off your pictures of belly and udder, I would personally say that I don't think she is pregnant. She looks well fed, but not pregnant. Maybe she is, but unless you get a vet or see feet coming out, you wouldn't know if she really is pregnant.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Whisper22 said:


> I don't have a truck or a trailer and the fee for a vet to come to me, in my area, is insane. I know she's pregnant and I know how to take care of her, I have our neighbor if I have any questions. If there is an obvious problem that requires a vet, I won't hesitate, but I don't mind waiting for her to foal. I know when I got her so I know the date she can't go past.


Not to be a pest, and please NdAppy or someone way more knowledgeable than me correct me if I'm wrong.. but aren't there supposed to be certain shots or procedures or 'needs' that a pregnant mare requires before she is due to foal? 

I know vets charge insane prices but sometimes they need to be there to check and make sure everything is kosher.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

SunnyDraco said:


> You may be driving yourself crazy believing she is pregnant. You may be very surprised how much guts can move. Unless you get a straight push against you when you are prodding her side, I would call any movement in her belly as gut movement. Unless you witnesses strong movement down by her udders or up by her tail head, those are distinctly baby movement. Based off your pictures of belly and udder, I would personally say that I don't think she is pregnant. She looks well fed, but not pregnant. Maybe she is, but unless you get a vet or see feet coming out, you wouldn't know if she really is pregnant.


That is probably her color playing tricks on your eyes. I can see and feel her ribs, as well as her spine. You can see in the picture how suncken in her butt is and her hip bones are protruding more than I like. Her belly is the only well fed looking part on her. 



Skyseternalangel said:


> Not to be a pest, and please NdAppy or someone way more knowledgeable than me correct me if I'm wrong.. but aren't there supposed to be certain shots or procedures or 'needs' that a pregnant mare requires before she is due to foal?
> 
> I know vets charge insane prices but sometimes they need to be there to check and make sure everything is kosher.


The shots may be a preference thing. The mare who just had her foal never got any shots, nor was she instructed to by our neighbor who guided my sister in law through the whole pregnancy and who also owns the daddy.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

sounds to me like the neighbor may be a backyard breeder, and maybe your neighbors stud? broke into your pen and got your mare pregnant? maybe she isn't due until well after august? maybe she isn't pregnant at all? sure i barely had any money when i took on a pregnant mare, but i managed to pay a vet to come here from 2 states away, simply because he was the best. and you think your price was high? i got our girl her shots and immunities so that my foal could have the best start with his life. maybe you need to rethink owning a horse if you can't handle a much needed vet bill. and yes preggo shots for a pregnant mare are much needed, regardless of whether or not your BYB neighbor says so or not.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

The only way to know 100% is if you get a vet out to confirm it. I think your wasting your time running around assuming thing before you get your facts straight. Imagine how silly you would feel if she turns out not to be pregnate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

It is a good idea to get the prenatal shots to help boost the foals immunity.
If however your mare has received her annual shots she will pass that immunity to the foal via colustrom. Therefore the foal will receive immunity for the first 90 days.
This is from the 2 vets that I discussed this with when I too had a surprise foal last week.
Last June I purchased a couple of Arab mares both loked to be pregnant.
When the vet came out to take a coggins and give them their shots the seller, myself, and the vet, all agreed she was heavily in foal.
We decided to delay moving her so as not to stress her.
2 weeks later I hauled her to the vet. Swollen udder,huge belly and no heat signs. Had her checked and she was empty. They have a way of making a fool of us sometimes. LOL Shalom


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Do you have an established vet? I know you are resistant to seeking care for the mare now, but your reference to calling one if there are complications can be problematic if you do not already have an established relationship with a vet who will be responsive to such a call.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

I am going to completely ignore any nagative comments about how I shouldn't own a horse and if by some crazy turn of events she ends up not being pregnant, then she won't be pregnant.



dbarabians said:


> It is a good idea to get the prenatal shots to help boost the foals immunity.
> If however your mare has received her annual shots she will pass that immunity to the foal via colustrom. Therefore the foal will receive immunity for the first 90 days.
> This is from the 2 vets that I discussed this with when I too had a surprise foal last week.
> Last June I purchased a couple of Arab mares both loked to be pregnant.
> ...


That's good to know. She has had her annual shots, and that could be why neighbor lady didn't direct my sister in law to get shots for her mare. 



themacpack said:


> Do you have an established vet? I know you are resistant to seeking care for the mare now, but your reference to calling one if there are complications can be problematic if you do not already have an established relationship with a vet who will be responsive to such a call.


I do have an established vet, a couple actually.

On to the news for people who want to share in my excitement. I went to see her today and found that she has started to bag up. I didn't try to squeeze anything out but there wasn't anything dripping freely either, so neighbor lady is still saying a couple more weeks. Here is the picture of her udders from Friday and then from today. The picture is kind of blurry, she wouldn't stand still and didn't really like my hand down there.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Ok, even if your mare is pregnant you still need a vet out! Pregnancy exams are crucial! You never know what could be going on in there until you get an ultra sound or palpation. I dont understand why your avoiding it so much and just going off what your neighbor lady says.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

My SIL's mare had one vet visit to confirm her pregnancy a couple weeks after she was bred, and that's it. Mother and baby are perfectly happy and healthy. I have no reason to believe there is anything seriously wrong, and so I'm not. There are plenty of people who let nature take it's course and do just fine. My husband's father's cousin owns a family QH breeding ranch in Colorado. They turn their brude mares out with the stallion and let nature take it's course. It is what it is.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Glad to see your taking all the necessary precautions for a mare to give birth safely and have a healthy baby. 

Even though you already admitted your worried about the foals nourishment because you haven't been feeding for 2 and you'v actually been trying to get her to loose weight. Hell, other people have done it so why can't you? Even if there are complications. Heck! It is what it is right?

Sounds like your going to make a wonderful owner for this new baby of yours.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

No I have not been trying to get her to lose weight, just haven't been feeding for two which is why she lost so much. My concerns are based on that alone, not because she is showing any signs of needing a vet. I have spoken to a vet on the phone and she is getting what she needs. 

If you don't like it, you can stop reading my thread and keep your assumptions about my care for my horses to yourself.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Im only going off of what i have read. I do hope you will get a foal exam done once its born.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> I noticed she was looking pretty chunky, but I chocked it up to her eating alfalfa when she had only ever been on grass. Turned out she was photosensative, so back to grass she went and she trimmed right down.


I took that as you wanting her to trim down because she was looking chunky


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

She did get chunky on the alfalfa and she did trim down on the grass, but that wasn't the point of putting her back on grass, it was her photosensitivity.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Well then i stand corrected. I still feel you should get a pregnancy exam for your mare. She might not show signs of complications and there very well could be one. Who knows, if you catch it early maybe you could fix it. Maybe she is 100% healthy with no complications. Atleast you know, and you care enough about your mare enough to make sure her and her baby are coming along well.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Well thank you for your concern, I'll keep it in mind.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Whisper 22, if that foal has not received enough nourishment there is nothing you or any vet can do.
A freind down here ran out of hay due to the drought. Like everyone else they bought what they could get and fed supplements and extra grain.
My friend has 3 mares due to foal and discovered that some of the hay has fescue in it. This can cause late term abortions.
There is nothing they can do except wait and see.
If she has been checked in foal an ultra sound would be useless IMO. Shalom


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

^^That's what I'm thinking exactly. I've already spoken to a vet about her and the baby's nutrition. He knew the situation and told me what I can do for her at this point. If the baby is going to come out malnourished from my earlier mistake, well then the baby will come out malnourished and I'll deal with it. It is my choice if I don't want a vet to come out just to tell me that my mare is pregnant, which I already knew, and to continue doing what I'm doing, because what I'm doing has been his advice already. Our neighbor is not a backyard breeder and she IS very knowledgeable so I trust her completely. I get that people on here have to assume the worst, but I know my situation better than anyone and we'll be just fine.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

dbarabians said:


> Whisper 22, if that foal has not received enough nourishment there is nothing you or any vet can do.
> A freind down here ran out of hay due to the drought. Like everyone else they bought what they could get and fed supplements and extra grain.
> My friend has 3 mares due to foal and discovered that some of the hay has fescue in it. This can cause late term abortions.
> There is nothing they can do except wait and see.
> If she has been checked in foal an ultra sound would be useless IMO. Shalom


I am a bit confused....I don't see where this mare has been checked in foal :? The only mention of the vet is the op offering reasons she cant/wont have the vet do a preg check


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

The baby has kicked up against my hand several times, hard. It is NOT gut movement, unless her guts are trying to get out.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Wow, I was hoping to find a nice, cute foaling thread here.

I am not usually in defense of a horse not having a vet check when it needs one, but I also don't think this mare/foal is in much danger. If you have a competent, knowledgeable, experienced and SUCCESSFUL, breeder next door helping you, then I consider that lucky to have free help instead of paying tons of vet bills. I'm sure if the mare/foal were truly in danger, this neighbor would tell her to call the vet ASAP. And I'm sure she has enough experience to tell that a mare that is close to delivering is actually pregnant. You can't fault the OP for wanting to save a little money, especially with a very unexpected foal about to drop... let her have the money in the bank for any aftercare emergency that may come up, she may need it.

Either way, it is neither here nor there at this point. It is what it is for now, so why not just sit back and wait for that lovely foal and let this unexpected miracle be a happy one for everybody, including the OP! I can't wait to see the pictures


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> Wow, I was hoping to find a nice, cute foaling thread here.
> 
> I am not usually in defense of a horse not having a vet check when it needs one, but I also don't think this mare/foal is in much danger. If you have a competent, knowledgeable, experienced and SUCCESSFUL, breeder next door helping you, then I consider that lucky to have free help instead of paying tons of vet bills. I'm sure if the mare/foal were truly in danger, this neighbor would tell her to call the vet ASAP. And I'm sure she has enough experience to tell that a mare that is close to delivering is actually pregnant. You can't fault the OP for wanting to save a little money, especially with a very unexpected foal about to drop... let her have the money in the bank for any aftercare emergency that may come up, she may need it.
> 
> Either way, it is neither here nor there at this point. It is what it is for now, so why not just sit back and wait for that lovely foal and let this unexpected miracle be a happy one for everybody, including the OP! I can't wait to see the pictures


Oh my goodness, thank you. It's nice if even one person understands where I'm coming from. I really do just want to share this experience, and hopefully a healthy foal in a couple weeks. I'm sorry if not everyone agrees with me, but not everyone agrees in the horse world.


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## AndreaSctlnd (Jan 17, 2012)

I too know where you are coming from. And it sounds like you are doing what you feel is best. NOW on to the important stuff. Do you want a healthy boy or girl? Have you been thinking names?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> The baby has kicked up against my hand several times, hard. It is NOT gut movement, unless her guts are trying to get out.


I just want to say, that my gut movement can look and feel like a baby kicking. Having been pregnant a few times myself, it is quite hilarious. I very often have to pause and remind myself that what I am rubbing as it pushes against me is probably a fart on its way out.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

And noooow?


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## Mousie96 (Apr 29, 2012)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> Wow, I was hoping to find a nice, cute foaling thread here.
> 
> I am not usually in defense of a horse not having a vet check when it needs one, but I also don't think this mare/foal is in much danger. If you have a competent, knowledgeable, experienced and SUCCESSFUL, breeder next door helping you, then I consider that lucky to have free help instead of paying tons of vet bills. I'm sure if the mare/foal were truly in danger, this neighbor would tell her to call the vet ASAP. And I'm sure she has enough experience to tell that a mare that is close to delivering is actually pregnant. You can't fault the OP for wanting to save a little money, especially with a very unexpected foal about to drop... let her have the money in the bank for any aftercare emergency that may come up, she may need it.
> Either way, it is neither here nor there at this point. It is what it is for now, so why not just sit back and wait for that lovely foal and let this unexpected miracle be a happy one for everybody, including the OP! I can't wait to see the pictures


Well thats what I thought on my thread, but I have been insulted because my vet can't come out and I really am not worried about him comming out. And what makes me more mad then anything is that I am 15, you guys should be ashamed of yourself for being so MEAN!! To me, to her, and to everone who does not do it YOUR way. I have been around horses but NEVER a pragnant one! Sadly I don't live where my horses live. So I cant feel for a kick, and my mare does not like it when I put my hand down buy her stomach or touch it. And it really makes me mad about everyone complaning about "You shouldn't own horses! Because you don't have your vet out there!" and things like that. But congrats on a soon to be foal!! I can't wait to see pics!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

MangoRoX87 said:


> And noooow?


I took myself to the vet, and she did a palp. Definitely not in foal. Just have lots of gas. She said to cut beans out of my diet if I can. My husband agreed with her.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> I took myself to the vet, and she did a palp. Definitely not rin foal. Just have lots of gas. She said to cut beans out of my diet if I can. My husband agreed with her.


Ok that's pretty funny. Having been pregnant a few times myself, I know what you're talking about. I promise you, this is not gut movement. The little gas bubbles that feel very similar to a baby giving a nudge is not the same as when a baby is actually giving you a kick that you can see.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

AndreaSctlnd said:


> I too know where you are coming from. And it sounds like you are doing what you feel is best. NOW on to the important stuff. Do you want a healthy boy or girl? Have you been thinking names?


I'm leaning more towards a girl, less maintenance. I will be happy with either though. I've only ever had mares, but a gelding would be a nice change too.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

A name just popped into my head ha ha.... works for girl or boy

"Surprise Package" LOL or "*horses name's* Surprise Package". you could call it surprise "sur" works for a boy, Prize.... I don't know, thought it was kinda funny but kinda fits the situation.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

^^that is super cute. I haven't even begun to think of names, still trying to wrap my head around the whole thing.


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## kartmom67 (Jan 25, 2012)

Hey Whisper, You're doing what you can. Enjoy! I took in a mare a couple of months ago who had been neglected and starved. I'm the type of person who has my vet on speed dial and when they get the slightest sniffle, I have the vet out. I think the vet rolls his eyes on the other end of the line, seriously, lol. But my point is, when I had him out to look at this starved pregnant mare, I was so worried and asking him what to do and how will the baby be, ect..he looked at me and said, "whatever was done is done, and all you can do from this point on is feed her and wait." He felt that the baby will likey be fine and that there would not be a test in the world that could tell me a single thing until the baby was born. I agree with you for hanging onto your pennies until then, because no ultrasound or blood test will reveal anything.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

I'll be hoping that all goes well for all involved & we'll see pics of a lovely filly soon.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

FWIW ,OP, I truly do wish your mare the absolute best. I hope that all does go well and all the worrying and questioning is for naught.


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## AndreaSctlnd (Jan 17, 2012)

Okay, I love the name Surpise Package!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is AWESOME!


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

I saw sky today. Udders are still full but still not leaking or waxing. She spent a good half hour trying to walk but then stopping to bite and kick at her stomach. She settled down eventually and seemed normal. My SIL said she was lifting her tail a lot yesterday, today just seemed to be holding it kind of stiff like she didn't know what to do with it.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

whisper if you ask me the lifted tail is a sure sign she is about to download. Get ready and good luck. Shalom


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## Amandaa (Apr 23, 2012)

Your mare is gorgeous! I bet the baby will be too! I also agree with you, wild horses dont get shots or any help during pregnancy, why should your horse get all kinds of shots? Lol


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I know a lot of folks wrap the tail when birth is imminant.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Amandaa said:


> Your mare is gorgeous! I bet the baby will be too! I also agree with you, wild horses dont get shots or any help during pregnancy, why should your horse get all kinds of shots? Lol


Thank you. Because I don't know who the daddy is, with my luck I'll probably end up with a mule. But that could be cute too.



tinyliny said:


> I know a lot of folks wrap the tail when birth is imminant.


I thought about that. I've never wrapped a tail but I was thinking of braiding it. If she hasn't had the baby by Thursday that's what I'll do.


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## Amandaa (Apr 23, 2012)

Lol yeah ive seen pretty cute mules!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> I know she's pregnant and I know how to take care of her, I have our neighbor if I have any questions.


Just wondering is that is the same neighbour who kept saying "nothing to worry about" ?

I really hope that your mare and foal do well, a mule would be cute


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Mules are fun, we have one at our stable that I have gotten to ride  He's lazy, but fun.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Just wondering is that is the same neighbour who kept saying "nothing to worry about" ?
> 
> I really hope that your mare and foal do well, a mule would be cute


I'm not sure where you're getting that from, but she did tell me to not stress myself out over it, that she would be fine.



Cinnys Whinny said:


> Mules are fun, we have one at our stable that I have gotten to ride  He's lazy, but fun.


If it is a mule it can be my husbands mount lol.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

We'll just have to wait and see..

Just FYI every time I come to this thread or see an email notification I get so confused since MY Sky is a gelding xD


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## Jumperforjoy (Mar 8, 2012)

Congrats on your soon to be baby, to me it really sounds like you are doing everything needed and like others said saving your money for future baby related things is much smarter. 

I think the fact people need to remember is she is in contact with a vet (even if only by phone) I have worked with vets in the past and if the vet had been concerned I am sure he/she would of strongly suggested a exam, which from my understanding did not happen. And that the OP has stated many times that if anything goes wrong the vet will be the first call, this gives me faith in the fact she is doing what is right for mommy/baby without wasting possibly precise money from when the baby does arrive.

I can't wait to see baby pictures  enjoy the all so wonderful waiting game!


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Just wondering is that is the same neighbour who kept saying "nothing to worry about" ?





Whisper22 said:


> I'm not sure where you're getting that from, but she did tell me to not stress myself out over it, that she would be fine.


My mistake. I didn't remember mentioning that she had looked at her before and said there was nothing to worry about, until just now when I reread my original post. I wasn't trying to say that she had never said that, just that I didn't remember mentioning it, so my apologies. 

Yes, she did have a look at her a couple months after I got her and she got really chunky on alfalfa. The pregnancy thing had crossed my mind because she had gotten fat, her nipples were big, and she hadn't gone into heat yet. At that time she said she didn't think so, she was just fat from the alfalfa, and that she wouldn't worry about it but if I wanted to know for sure I could call the vet. I figured she was right about the alfalfa, since she had only ever been on grass, and I let it go. At that time she would have only been about 5 months along.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Small update. There hasn't been much change. The tail lifting thing might have been my SIL over exaggerating. I shouldn't have even mentioned it unless I saw it myself. She HAS been kicking and biting at her sides a lot though. Her udders have stayed consistently full and she doesn't like me to touch them anymore. I've posted a picture because there is two dots of crusty stuff on each udder. I don't know if this is waxing, or just normal crusty stuff, but it wasn't there before.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

That bag looks very full whisper. Will she allow you to feel it?
By looking at the picture she may be very close. Good luck. Shalom


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

I am missing something.....

I do not see much of a bag at all.

IMO....the mare has a long way to go.

That being said, things can change fast.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

I think she still has a little while to go, but then again maiden mares are so tricky. My mare Chanti, who several members here thought she wasn't pregnant either, didn't really get a big bag until after she foaled. 
She got a bag and it was very full feeling and warm and then about a week later she foaled. Something else to watch for is to check for any discharge that is a little bloody. That's a good indicator of a foal is on the way. 
Whatever she's eating now start to increase it and there are several weight gain supplements you can buy to add to her grain, like wheat germ oil. 
When the baby is out and the cord has broken spray the umbilical cord with iodine.
Vacciones are a good precaution but not always necessary with every mare. Depends on the situation.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm kinda with dba here .... the SIZE of the bag isn't huge, but the teats pointing out is an indicator for me .. the little bag looks full.

Of course, mares will be mares ..

(DH says we are looking at horse porn .. hehe)


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

texasgal said:


> (DH says we are looking at horse porn .. hehe)


I don't think it's porn, more like... nudes. IF it were a picture of a women's breast they would call it a nude, not porn....


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I find looking at and photographing the bag from the back....looking between the back legs.......most helpful in seeing and tracking development.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Ripper said:


> I am missing something.....
> 
> I do not see much of a bag at all.
> 
> ...


I don't have any experience really with pregnant mares, but compared to the first picture I posted of her udders, where they looked like triangles, they have definitely filled up. 
Out of curiosity, for anyone who can answer, the fact that her udders have always been large, not full just quite larger than the other mare here, could that indicate that she has had a foal before. My common sense tells me they look that way because she's nursed before, but I could be completely wrong.



horsecrazy84 said:


> I think she still has a little while to go, but then again maiden mares are so tricky. My mare Chanti, who several members here thought she wasn't pregnant either, didn't really get a big bag until after she foaled.
> She got a bag and it was very full feeling and warm and then about a week later she foaled. Something else to watch for is to check for any discharge that is a little bloody. That's a good indicator of a foal is on the way.
> Whatever she's eating now start to increase it and there are several weight gain supplements you can buy to add to her grain, like wheat germ oil.
> When the baby is out and the cord has broken spray the umbilical cord with iodine.
> Vacciones are a good precaution but not always necessary with every mare. Depends on the situation.


Thank you for your help. I will definitely have some iodine handy.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Whisper22 said:


> I don't have any experience really with pregnant mares, but compared to the first picture I posted of her udders, where they looked like triangles, they have definitely filled up.
> Out of curiosity, for anyone who can answer, the fact that her udders have always been large, not full just quite larger than the other mare here, could that indicate that she has had a foal before. My common sense tells me they look that way because she's nursed before, but I could be completely wrong.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, some mares just have a bag.

My Kay's Joy always looked ready to foal.

Never got her girly figure back.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Today Sky's udders are really full. Still no waxing but they look like they're going to burst. I also took a picture of her lady parts, so if anyone can tell me anything about how it looks. 


















This is how Sky looks today, she's starting to resemble a pregnant horse finally. And I also included a picture of her body condition from an angle that captured it well, to show how she really isn't just a well fed horse.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Is it normal for her bag to be so full but not be able to get any milk out? I was planning on testing her milk from this point on but got nothing.

A few times today she squatted like she was going to pee and I caught her winking once.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

subbing, I just gotta see what this pretty girl of yours has.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

believe it or not but your girls bag is only about half full. it will get even bigger, but when you know she is ready is when her actualy teats fill up, then you should be able to milk her.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Subbing to see how everything goes!! Positive thoughts for you and your mare and baby!! =D


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

This mare needs serious groceries. If that is the condition she is in after you have had her for 7 months, you really need to evaluate your feeding regime. She is not "trimmed down" - she is bony and thin. This is not normal for a pregnant mare. She needs a vet out to evaluate the best way to put weight back on her so she can maintain herself when the foal comes. This isn't just for her sake - the foal needs the correct nutrients too. 

Another concern is the facilities she is kept in. Those are not at all suitable for a foal. At all. 

I also suspect that your mare is a frame carrier. Without knowing what she is bred to, I think you also need to be aware that she could have a lethal white foal.


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## JanetsPaintedRayne (Apr 28, 2012)

Subbing and sending some POSITIVE vibes your way. I hope all goes well and you keep us updated 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> This mare needs serious groceries. If that is the condition she is in after you have had her for 7 months, you really need to evaluate your feeding regime. She is not "trimmed down" - she is bony and thin. This is not normal for a pregnant mare. She needs a vet out to evaluate the best way to put weight back on her so she can maintain herself when the foal comes. This isn't just for her sake - the foal needs the correct nutrients too.
> 
> Another concern is the facilities she is kept in. Those are not at all suitable for a foal. At all.
> 
> I also suspect that your mare is a frame carrier. Without knowing what she is bred to, I think you also need to be aware that she could have a lethal white foal.


You need to read the thread from the beginning. I am very aware of her condition and what she needs. Someone early on said she didn't look pregnant, just well fed. The picture was to show that wasn't the case. The facilities are fine, you are seeing a very small portion of what's there, but thanks.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Subbing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The facilities are NOT fine. There might be more that you have access to, but that yard is NOT SAFE for a foal. Since every picture of your mare that you have shared is in this pen, it is all someone has to go by. The mesh type wire that is overlaying the steel tubing? That can very quickly entangle a foal's legs, cutting them open or even de-sheathing the hoof. 

As for the vet having consulted you on how to adequately provide nutrition for both her and the foal, have you told the vet she has continued to lose condition? Without being out to see the mare, there is NO WAY a vet can give an accurate feeding plan. If I called my vet and told them I had a pregnant mare who was so thin I could count her vertebrae, I am fairly sure they would want to come out.

You say you have been pregnant yourself. Did you deny yourself the same basic care you are denying your horse? I understand that you didn't breed this mare, so I am not at all judging you for the fact she may be pregnant. But when you deny basic care to your horse, it's time to evaluate if you are doing the best you can for her. I am also not talking about shots, or anything where there is any implication of "optional". Your mare is emaciated, not just thin. She NEEDS vet attention. Not a phone call.


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## AndreaSctlnd (Jan 17, 2012)

Chiilaa...please. She doesn't need to be yelled at by you. You are not there and you don't see all that is going on. If it is that bothersome to you, then refrain from coming in here and seeing what is going on. 

Whisper...hope things are going well. Keep checking to see what is going on.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

whisper, i want to offer you a very real suggestion, i had a friend that was feeding a pregnant mare free choice hay around the clock and almost 5 gallons of special feed a DAY. and she was skinnier then your girl, however it was because the vet checked her and didn't catch that there was TWINS. he lost boy the colt and the filly, even doing nightly checks every 2 hours. its a very real possibility that your girl IS on a good food regime, but because she may have twins its bringing her down more then intended. is there ANY way you can have her checked for twins? we honestly didn't think twins would be a possibility as they were so rare, but he came to check his 2 mares and there they were on the ground and still in the sac because they weren't strong enough to break free, she was also almost a month overdue. but please give the option of twins a thought and think about getting her checked.


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

subbing.....good luck!!!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Checking for twins is only really possible early in the pregnancy...


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## mysticalhorse (Apr 27, 2011)

Baby proofing is needed but it could have been said in a kinder way.... 
Good luck with your mare! Can't wait to see baby pictures!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

AndreaSctlnd said:


> Chiilaa...please. She doesn't need to be yelled at by you. You are not there and you don't see all that is going on. If it is that bothersome to you, then refrain from coming in here and seeing what is going on.


First of all, this is a public forum. If people want to post pictures of their horses, they do so knowing that others can and will offer opinion on those pictures. If that opinion is different to what they want to hear, it is their responsibility, not mine, to put on their big girl panties and get over it. Life is full of opinions that differ, it's what makes humans so much fun. Part of growing up is learning how to deal with a different opinion in an adult, mature way.

Secondly, to not say anything is tantamount to condoning the continuation of this mare's condition. Horses have no voice. It is our responsibility as horse lovers and owners to be their advocates. To ignore the situation is to say it is ok, and I refuse to be the person who averts their eyes in order to save someone's pride or feelings. I won't apologise for it.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

She can only use what is available and it is too late to be concerned about twins or LWS.
Twins are very rare and are usually absorbed by the mare or aborted.
That mare even if a frame carrier still has a 75% chance of a healthy foal.
I do however agree that the mare probably needs more feed or hay and a vet to check her. She is in poor condition.
I would be concerned about her ability to produce milk and have the energy to foal with out assistance.
Good luck. Shalom


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Chiilaa .. part of growing up is also being able to express a differing opinion without coming off as condemning and mean ....

imo


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

texasgal said:


> Chiilaa .. part of growing up is also being able to express a differing opinion without coming off as condemning and mean ....
> 
> imo


Read my first posts in this thread. Gently suggesting isn't working. I was not ever rude, nor disrespectful. To imply I was "condemning" and "mean" is far from the truth. However, this isn't the topic of this thread, and because of this, I will not be replying further to posters who think my tone is not the right one for this thread, since tone is so easy to decipher on the internet...


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

texasgal said:


> Chiilaa .. part of growing up is also being able to express a differing opinion without coming off as condemning and mean ....
> 
> imo


That is just a matter of opinion. My grandfather used to say - "it's not what you say but what they hear". 

Sometimes good advice comes off as being harsh.


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## MisssMarie (Jan 31, 2012)

Whisper, good luck to you! I've seen foals born and raised in pens just like that. So, little bit of babyproofin? Sure! But for the most part you're good. She looks like a beautiful horse and no worries about the vet, if you trust your neighbor, you should be all good!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Except neighbors are not usually vets and don't have that knowledge vets do.
The OP's horse is horribly thin and doesn't look all that healthy. If the neighbors advice is what the OP is following, then she needs to quit listening.. 
This horse needs some groceries and hopefully gain weight before the foal is born to be able to 1: go through labor and delivery and 2: have enough milk to feed the foal and 3: be able to keep producing milk for the baby. 
Any animal or human can only produce milk for a baby if they continue to have ENOUGH food to keep themselves alive and be able for their body to produce milk for the baby.
Good luck, your mare and foal will need it.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> The facilities are NOT fine. There might be more that you have access to, but that yard is NOT SAFE for a foal. Since every picture of your mare that you have shared is in this pen, it is all someone has to go by. The mesh type wire that is overlaying the steel tubing? That can very quickly entangle a foal's legs, cutting them open or even de-sheathing the hoof.
> 
> As for the vet having consulted you on how to adequately provide nutrition for both her and the foal, have you told the vet she has continued to lose condition? Without being out to see the mare, there is NO WAY a vet can give an accurate feeding plan. If I called my vet and told them I had a pregnant mare who was so thin I could count her vertebrae, I am fairly sure they would want to come out.
> 
> You say you have been pregnant yourself. Did you deny yourself the same basic care you are denying your horse? I understand that you didn't breed this mare, so I am not at all judging you for the fact she may be pregnant. But when you deny basic care to your horse, it's time to evaluate if you are doing the best you can for her. I am also not talking about shots, or anything where there is any implication of "optional". Your mare is emaciated, not just thin. She NEEDS vet attention. Not a phone call.


I get that you can only assume based on what you see, but you have now been told that what you see is not all there is, so you can stop assuming, or not, doesn't really matter. Whether or not the ENTIRE yard is safe is not really in my control at this point, I can only monitor them the best I can, and fully intend to. She has not gone continuously down hill since I've had her either. She was overweight for the first couple of months, looked healthy for the next couple, and then slowly started to lose weight, and has NOT continued to lose since I became aware of her pregnancy. She IS getting what she needs now. I don't know how many times I have to say that but there you go. I am not going to argue my decisions anymore. I have no reason to believe she is in serious danger and as others have said there is very little that can be told or done at this point besides feeding her what she needs. I have the vet on speed dial if I need him, but thank you for your concern.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> except neighbors are not usually vets and don't have that knowledge vets do.
> The op's horse is horribly thin and doesn't look all that healthy. If the neighbors advice is what the op is following, then she needs to quit listening..
> This horse needs some groceries and hopefully gain weight before the foal is born to be able to 1: Go through labor and delivery and 2: Have enough milk to feed the foal and 3: Be able to keep producing milk for the baby.
> Any animal or human can only produce milk for a baby if they continue to have enough food to keep themselves alive and be able for their body to produce milk for the baby.
> Good luck, your mare and foal will need it.


read the thread. I am in contact with a vet and it is his advice on her nutrition that i'm following.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I am curious. Has the vet SEEN this horse in person? Actually put his hands on this horse and examined her or is giving advice over the phone based on what you are telling him?
Sorry, if the vet is giving advice over the phone without doing an exam and the horse is in this condition, he/she needs to have vet license revoked...
I have worked with vets for over 35 years or more and not one vet that I have worked for would continue giving nutritional advice over the phone if the owner has been totally honest and has stated the mare is losing weight, her backbone, tailhead and every rib is showing after feeding what the same vet has recommended and the horse is still not gaining weight. The vets I work for would expect to see and examine the horse, do bloodwork if they felt it was necessary and make sure the horse was being fed correctly, not just the owner stating what is being fed.
Seems to me its easier for you to listen to your neighbor and call the vet on the phone for advice instead of spending money to have the vet out.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Whisper22 said:


> I get that you can only assume based on what you see, but you have now been told that what you see is not all there is, so you can stop assuming, or not, doesn't really matter. Whether or not the ENTIRE yard is safe is not really in my control at this point, I can only monitor them the best I can, and fully intend to. She has not gone continuously down hill since I've had her either. She was overweight for the first couple of months, looked healthy for the next couple, and then slowly started to lose weight, and has NOT continued to lose since I became aware of her pregnancy. She IS getting what she needs now. I don't know how many times I have to say that but there you go. I am not going to argue my decisions anymore. I have no reason to believe she is in serious danger and as others have said there is very little that can be told or done at this point besides feeding her what she needs. I have the vet on speed dial if I need him, but thank you for your concern.


You need him.

Make the call.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> I am curious. Has the vet SEEN this horse in person? Actually put his hands on this horse and examined her or is giving advice over the phone based on what you are telling him?
> Sorry, if the vet is giving advice over the phone without doing an exam and the horse is in this condition, he/she needs to have vet license revoked...
> I have worked with vets for over 35 years or more and not one vet that I have worked for would continue giving nutritional advice over the phone if the owner has been totally honest and has stated the mare is losing weight, her backbone, tailhead and every rib is showing after feeding what the same vet has recommended and the horse is still not gaining weight. The vets I work for would expect to see and examine the horse, do bloodwork if they felt it was necessary and make sure the horse was being fed correctly, not just the owner stating what is being fed.
> Seems to me its easier for you to listen to your neighbor and call the vet on the phone for advice instead of spending money to have the vet out. .


It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why she's been losing weight. IF you actually read the thread you would know that I have only known she was pregnant for a week and wasn't feeding her for two.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That has nothing to do with it. If you were feeding her correctly she wouldn't have lost weight.

Has the vet actually seen your mare at all recently?


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Not since December and no I'm not going to call him. Continue flaming me all if you want. If anyone wants anymore updates on my mare and her progress PM me, I'm done with this thread.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

. I am not making assumptions... I am making a comment on what I have seen and read. 
The mare is skinny, the mare is in foal, the foal needs nutrition to stay alive, the mare needs nutrition to feed the foal and herself. How many POUNDS of grain is she getting, not just scoops, but POUNDS.. How many POUNDS of hay is she getting, not just flakes?Or is she getting free fed hay?
So, to answer the question everyone is asking but you refuse to answer? HAS this mare seen a vet??? Don't answer the question saying "he is on speed dial".. HAS this mare seen an ACTUAL vet????


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Funny how many posters leave as soon as they don't like answers. 
I hope the mare foals easily and the foal survives. I spend hours and hours daily working with pregnant animals and know what they need to survive.
I can't help but be concerned when the owner of an animal refuses to see what is in front of t hem and refuses to take the advice given to them by knowledgable people. 
So, this mare has not seen a vet since December... Its now May, five months later and she is in poor condition and continues to lose weight......... Foal is due anytime according to the neighbor??? Wouldn't you think a concerned owner would want a vet to see this mare, give a truthful opinion of what the mare needs to foal safely, what needs to be done to make it possible to keep mare and foal alive and healthy? I guess I am just confused, guess money is more important than the foal and mare???


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

She answered the question.. 


~She's not obligated to answer questions just because you ask. 
~Not everyone is going to take your advise. 
~Not everyone is going to tell you what they are doing or not doing .. and if they did it wouldn't please everyone anyway.

She knows the horse is thin. She's told us what she is going to tell us. 

Ultimately it's her horse .. all you can do is advise.

imo


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

No, she is not obligated to answer questions, take advice or anything else.
BUT, usually when a person with no experience with pregnant/foaling mares come on board to ask questions, they will get questions and advice from the many many experienced folks on the forum.
Unfortunately, I never get when you ask for advice, then get all huffy when folks question what you have or have not done and ask why you have or have not done it. If you don't want folks to ask question or give advice, then they need to say
: I am coming to this forum to tell you about my horse, but want no advice or questions. I don't know what I am doing, but know any advice or questions from forum members will make me mad and I will go away in a huff....
Will save lots of time and energy for the caring folks who make suggestions or give advice or comments, they won't do it...


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

She may not be obligated to answer questions or take advice, but she IS obligated to provide the necessary care for this horse, and she is not doing so at this time based on her own statements and photos.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

There is a difference between advice and condemnation.
She is inexperinced and doing the best she knows how.
Advice given as a suggestion is much more readily absorbed and followed than being lectured to.
There has been good sound advice given on this thread. 
The OP in IMO needs to stay connected and continue to ask questions.
Do what she can to improve the situation and learn from the experience.
Besides feeding more she probalby cannot do much besides that to improve the chances of the foal. Shalom


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Okay, lets all just calm down. We already hashed this out the first 2-3 pages and agreed that some of us disagree and to just let this be a calm foaling thread....


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

And some of us who have experience like to see a horse get the proper care for foaling and when the inexperienced can't seem to see or want to listen to what is in front of her, then its very hard to just sit back and wait to see what happens when things CAN be done.
Bet she got the proper doctor care for her pregnancies and didn't just listen to a neighbor and not see a doctor. Why should her horse not get the same care?


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> And some of us who have experience like to see a horse get the proper care for foaling and when the inexperienced can't seem to see or want to listen to what is in front of her, then its very hard to just sit back and wait to see what happens when things CAN be done.
> Bet she got the proper doctor care for her pregnancies and didn't just listen to a neighbor and not see a doctor. Why should her horse not get the same care?


Yes, but bullying and cramming advice down someone's throat, over and over again, isn't really the way to do it, it only causes the person to rebel even more, especially when she has already had other people do the same thing. It only stresses the rest of us out who just wanted to enjoy the thread and help out this person who has been landed with an unexpected horsie pregnancy and is doing the best that she knows how with the help of a knowledgeable breeder who has done this numerous times.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> Yes, but bullying and cramming advice down someone's throat, over and over again, isn't really the way to do it, it *only causes the person to rebel even more*


Children do that - same as getting on the floor and pounding their fists wanting attention. Adults listen, thank people for their advice and concern, then decide what to do about it. They don't defend their position and try to explain it away as though no one knows what they are talking about.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

> Adults listen, thank people for their advice and concern, then decide what to do about it.


But she DID do this. It's the "deciding" part that advice-giving people don't like. She listened, thanked, and decided. Just because she decided to do it differently doesn't mean she didn't decide. She has made adjustments. Some she shared, some she hasn't.

We can't MAKE people do things our way.. 

Advice is only advice the first time it's given. After that, it's badgering. There is nothing more ya'll can do folks!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I have to agree on the above. The OP has stated she realizes the horse is thin and now knows why the horse was not getting proper nutrition. She stated several times that a vet has not seen the horse recently, but that she is seeking advice via phone and via a breeder who is close to her (the neighbor). She has stated that she has increased the mare's intake, and that she is trying to give her the proper nutrition at this point and until the foal is born.

And honestly, I see nothing wrong with giving feed or hay measurements in "scoop" or "flake" terms. It isn't as proper as saying exact pounds, but to many people it is still /understood/. It is a bit picky to bring that up when we all very well know what a flake of hay is. Yes, there are varying sizes of "scoops". So maybe she could have verified what type of scoop she uses. But truly, it isn't that hard to understand what someone means. I think it is more a regional thing, as I've never heard anyone but a vet or an English type rider down here (Louisiana and Texas) mention pounds. I've always heard people refer to things as scoops and flakes. So try not to judge someone based on something that may not be expressed the same way you express it.

I hope the OP will continue checking the thread and will keep everyone updated as it would be more beneficial to be sure posters understand that in case of emergency or uncertainty, there is a place to come and talk without the fear of being condemned for their every word or action.

Just my opinion.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I have read through this entire thread. 

I haven't heard or seen bullying, condemnation, advice crammed down anyone's throat or even the vague "being mean." 

I've heard people give excellent, well-founded advice and get a little frustrated when it's discounted. I've seen a mostly rationale adult discussion with some disagreement. It was mostly been civil disagreement. 

I greatly dislike it when experienced members gang up or hound a new member because of their lack or knowledge or play "pile on the rabblit"; and usually the moderator time will step in to stop that behavior once alerted to it. 

I don't think that's happened here. 

The OP asked for advice. 

People gave it. 

OP is not taking the vast majority of the advice. Her choice, her prerogative.

The End.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

And you know her knowledgable horse breeder is an expert how??? 
I live in horse country, farm country, ranch country and have seen many many stupid dumb things done by supposed "knowledgable breeders" and been helping when the vet is trying to help keep these poor animals alive after the knowledgable breeders did their own doctoring, foaling, calving, etc. A local breeder for years who gelded his own mature stallions, but roping them down, castrating him and then pouring bleach in the open wound.... yep, this guy has bred race/cutter horses for years and years.
Another well known respected breeder of Paint horses letting horses carry foals and the mares died because of non care, yet he can sell his horses for thousands of dollars. Same breeder/trainer cut my friends horses tongue in half. Gets them to drag their head in the dirt for WP by starving them??? 
None of these respected knowledgable breeders give their horses water in the winter cause snow will work just fine............Really?
Knowledgable by whose opinion? The same person who can't seem to understand how to feed her horse properly? Not give a pregnant mare shots to prevent abortion cause the "neighbor" says not necessary? Really? 
Just because a person says they have experience and knowledge doesn't mean they have the correct knowledge. I bred show dogs, dogs selling for $10,000 for years. Waiting lists for years.. I have plenty of advice and knowledge. Yet I no longer breed because my dogs were valuable and its easier and cheaper to buy from a BYB than a respected breeder these days. Yet a "friend" breeds little dogs/mixed breeds etc to make money. She breeds dogs with bad bites, with genetic diseases, even let a male lose his penis because she did not care enough to look and make sure the penis was back in the sheath after breeding. Has had lots and lots of litters,lots die. Does that make her a knowledgeable breeder? No, just one that has had litters and doesn't know enough to make sure the dogs she breeds are healthy and safe. Doesn't care enough as long as she makes money.... Would I trust her "knowledge" as much as mine?? Not a chance. But she sounds good because she is constantly producing puppies
I don't shove anything down anyone's throat... Nor do I bully. Pretty much give advice based on 45 plus years of experience.. Nobody has to take it, they can leave it. But don't tell me I can't give it please when someone asks.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Folks, this thread has run it's course and can only continue in a negative, name calling vein. What was said has been said and we all hope for the best for the mare and her foal.


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