# Halter breaking yearling without a roundpen



## Enimo (Jan 31, 2015)

Hello, I am an inexperienced horse owner. We own a small farm with some beautiful pasture and someone gave us two mini horses a month or so ago. One is a 5 year old philly and the other is a 9 month old philly. The younger one is sweet as can be and will let me pet and rub all over her. I would like to be able to lead her and eventually place one of my grandchildren on her back while being led...that is all. She even let me put a halter right on her. But, yesterday when I put the lead rope on her for the first time she immediately took off and ran like her tail was on fire. She finally calmed down and came back to me. Once I got the rope in my hand she wanted NOTHING to do with the lead...she bucked and I just held on to her because I did not want her to get hurt and take off again. I KNOW I did not start out the correct way...I just need to know where to go from here. I got her into a stall and released the rope but she still has the halter on her. For a couple hours afterwards, I was working around her and she would let me come up to her and pet her some, but she is a little skiddish now, and rightfully so. I do not have around pen...only pasture and a small (10X10) corral, and a barn with 12X12 stalls. What steps do I take to be able to lead her without having a round pen? I know I have to build her trust again and I have already begun doing that. I will not rush this, there is no reason to. My biggest concern is her safety and her just trusting me. Thank you all for your help.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Use a stall. She's figured out quickly that you know little about horses and she's putting you to the test. Attach the lead to the halter and hang on to your end. She has nowhere to go. If she turns her rump toward you give that rope a good yank to turn her rump away. Let her circle the stall, she'll get tired of it. That's when you make her circle it a few more times.


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## Enimo (Jan 31, 2015)

No one else have any advice? The stall size makes it difficult to really work her in a circle.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm sorry but it sounds like you REALLY need hands on help.

Not even a trainer necessarily but just someone experienced.

BTW your 5 year old is a "mare" (female horse) and the 9 month old is a "filly" (young mare).

Yes the 5 year old is young but she is mature and most people would refer to her as a mare.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I think hands on help is a good idea. Mini's have a tendency to get really spoiled really quick because people often treat them like dogs or worse yet kids in a horse suit. The problem is that they are still horses and they are "the right heigh to kick you and take out your knees". A badly behaved mini can do harm just as well as a full sized horse or pony. I would also nix the idea of any child riding this horse, depending on size that could actually hurt the horse and finding a small enough, skilled enough rider to back/train the horse is a challenge. 

I would use the small corral or stall to do your handling/introductory leading. I think it might be worth investigating a leather halter that she could wear for a long time and a small short "tab" that might make catching her easier. That said, hands on help would be ideal.


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## hotdog the wonder horse (Mar 21, 2014)

It really comes down to spending time with them. Always carry a rope and halter when your with her but. Let her come to it let her sniff it and explore it without touching her once she realizes the halter and rope army going to hiss and bite her you can rub it on her nose tell her she's good when she lets you touch her. 
It would help if you have a stall to con fine her in so she's a little easier to stay close to 
But I suggest you find some one to help you 
If you don't have access to help just take it slow and gain her trust
And always leave before you get frustrated or before she dose it makes a youngsters learning go so much smoother 
Hope this helps

I just haltering lead broke an touched paint 2yearold with this same method in about four 20 minute sessions over a 2 or 3 day period of time but I had spent 2weeks just sitting in a 10 by12 foot stall doing nothing but coo and talk to it all is fone through pressure and release as soon as they even start to do what you 
Hop I helped and didn't just ramble 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

She obviously hasn't had much in the way of handling! 
Don't worry about her having got loose with the rope trailing it will not have done her any harm at all. 

I too would work with her in the 12 x 12 get the rope on her and take tension on the rope to get her to come to you. She will resist amd pull back against the contact but keep a steady pressure. If she tries to get her head away from you then pull it back towards you. The moment *she *stops pulling against the pressure you relax your contact. This might just be that she lowers her head or takes a step forward, when she does this you reward with a scratch on her withers. Then you ask again. She will eventually catch on that pulling back gets her no where, giving to the pressure does and she will soon catch on to following you.

Please don't give this pair treats from your hand, it will make them mouthy and with small children around it is not a good thing.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

There is a good article here Halter Breaking Your Foal – America’s Horse Daily
that you can download about halter and lead training.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I might be rather confused about what you want to do - but people in Europe have been halter breaking horses 'forever' without using a round pen
That idea is something that's travelled around with the NH craze - you don't need to do it at all
We halter break an untouched horse in a stable or similar sized confined area - slowly and patiently so the horse doesn't panic and over react and the handler doesn't risk getting hurt
I think you might need some expert help at hand


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Subscribing so I can type out a reply later.


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## Enimo (Jan 31, 2015)

I thought I posted this response but don't see it...if it shows up, sorry for the do-over.

I have made myself appear much dumber than I really am. I said I had a 5 year old "philly". I know that she is a mare and the 9 month old is a filly, not a philly. I mentioned a roundpen because it is referred to regularly in this forum and several videos I have seen. I was just stating that I do not have one so someone wouldn't waste a lot of time telling me how to break her using one. As far as where we are now...she comes to me and will let me rub and pet her easily, so she still trusts me. She let me place the halter on her easily as well, but when she sees or feels the lead, she gets very upset. From what I have seen and read, it looks like I just need to spend some time getting her use do the lead without actually putting it on her. She is not a large horse at all and I am a big man...I can easily control her, just do not want to do any damage emotionally to her. My plan is to take a day next week when I can have a few hours to work with her, if necessary. I will put her in the corral, place the halter on her and spend time rubbing on her and getting her used to the lead. I will place the lead on her and use the techniques provided by you all and see how it goes. At what point do I end the day? Once she realizes the lead and I are not going to hurt her and she follows me? My goal is just to get her and the mare where I can lead them to my other barn, check their feet, control them to have them checked by the vet. I mentioned placing my grandchild on their back...that is not necessary...but, I would only do this while my grandchildren are toddlers. Thank you all for you input and advice.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Always try to end on a good note - so at this stage it could mean not pushing her too far out of her comfort zone - obviously you will need to creep forward a little bit every day but do that by watching how she's coping
I've bought untouched 3, 4, 5 year old horses and had them leading quietly outside by day 2 - but some take longer


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Enimo said:


> I thought I posted this response but don't see it...if it shows up, sorry for the do-over.
> 
> I have made myself appear much dumber than I really am. I said I had a 5 year old "philly". I know that she is a mare and the 9 month old is a filly, not a philly. I mentioned a roundpen because it is referred to regularly in this forum and several videos I have seen. I was just stating that I do not have one so someone wouldn't waste a lot of time telling me how to break her using one. As far as where we are now...she comes to me and will let me rub and pet her easily, so she still trusts me. She let me place the halter on her easily as well, but when she sees or feels the lead, she gets very upset. From what I have seen and read, it looks like I just need to spend some time getting her use do the lead without actually putting it on her. She is not a large horse at all and I am a big man...I can easily control her, just do not want to do any damage emotionally to her. My plan is to take a day next week when I can have a few hours to work with her, if necessary. I will put her in the corral, place the halter on her and spend time rubbing on her and getting her used to the lead. I will place the lead on her and use the techniques provided by you all and see how it goes. At what point do I end the day? Once she realizes the lead and I are not going to hurt her and she follows me? My goal is just to get her and the mare where I can lead them to my other barn, check their feet, control them to have them checked by the vet. I mentioned placing my grandchild on their back...that is not necessary...but, I would only do this while my grandchildren are toddlers. Thank you all for you input and advice.


A horse that hasn't been handled or taught to lead will have problems with the lead rope. It's like an automatic pre-programmed panic/OH MY GAWD I CAN'T GET AWAY kind of response that I see in every single foal I train. Larger horses (one of the reasons I no longer work with full grown outside horses) have the same reaction but it's X 50 because of their size. Since your mare is a mini, it won't be so bad. 

Here's how I teach the foals, and I've never had one hold a grudge or at least not past suppertime. I like to take them into the foaling stall because it's large. Since they are still nursing, I let mom be in there too but that's not an issue for you. I put the halter on, pet, brush, handle feet, love on 'em and play a little if they want. 5-10 mins max. Then I put the lead on and I walk away to a point where they feel a little tug. It always kind of surprises them and they try to back up. When the do, they feel a little more tug. I just stand still until they work it out. Most of the time they just stop and eventually will take 1 step forward and take off the pressure. I take up the slack again but just a little more tug. Let them figure it out. Walk up, pet, end the lesson. If it turns into a full on, wall eyed hissy fit throwin' tantrum, I stay clear of them, make sure they can't hurt themselves in the stall and I let them have at it. I take ALL pressure off while they are throwing their little fit. When they realize there's no more pressure they stop. Pet, love, reassure and walk away. 

Come back later, and start all over. This time, I put a lead rope around their butt as well as hook the lead rope on the halter. I keep tension on the rope around their butt, and slowly take a little tension on the halter. Because of the pressure from the butt rope, the halter tension doesn't seem to bother them as much. I pull just enough on the halter that they know that they're being pulled, but not enough to stretch the neck or drag them forward. Once they've got that pressure, I increase the pressure on the butt rope until they have to take a step forward. Then 2 then 3 then quit. Love on 'em and put 'em away. No more than 10 mins max. 

Next day, we start all over and quickly move up to lead on the halter and butt rope around the butt. Take 1,2,3 steps (should be a lot easier today) and then pet love and let them think. Take 1,2,3 steps again, pet love and let 'em think. Do it one more time, again no more than 10 mins max. At this point they should be taking 1-2-3 steps forward and pause, then do it again and again. For some reason, doing things in odd numbers, 3X, 5X, make the learning go faster. Love 'em, feed 'em and go away. 

Come back in the afternoon or evening if you can and have another session, if not, do it the next day. 3rd day, you need a 2nd person to walk mom out of the stall. In your case, if you can get someone who has a horse who leads easily, it will help you. Let them start walking away, after you have the horse haltered, lead on, and butt rope on. If she doesn't immediately follow, you pull with the butt rope and praise praise praise the first step. She may just follow the other horse without any tugging and that's great, praise her a LOT for doing that. Just follow the other horse around for about 10 mins then go back to the stall, pet and release. 

If you don't have a large stall, anywhere that is open and clear of things that could hurt her is fine. A large aisleway, the barn yard, a paddock, it really doesn't matter, as long as you start and end in her stall. The only time she gets out is when you take her out for a walk, that's another motivator for her to get with the program. Within a week, she ought to be leading and go with you pretty well. Not saying she won't have the occasional wall eyed fit because you won't go where she wants to go (and in the beginning, you ALWAYS tell her where to go, not the other way), just let her have her fit and get over it. With the foals, and since she's a mini I'd be inclined to let her do the same, I just make sure that if the rear they fall on their sides because I help them do it. It scares them but if you are careful and control the fall they don't get hurt. Since THEY did it and scare themselves, it's rare to have a repeat. No matter what they do during their fit, I just keep clear so I don't get kicked or bitten and I let them work it out. I don't discipline anything at this point, unless they reach over and bite me or snap a little foot out to kick me, then they get the side of my foot right up against their little butts, just like mom would do. If they bite, they get a wallop up side the head, one time and it's over. The main thing I'm doing with ignoring their fit and not interacting is, they are learning that whatever scares them or makes them uncomfortable, they did it to themselves. I was 20 feet away watching but not doing. They learn very quickly to stop having fits and that life is soooo much easier to just walk and behave.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

What worked for me:

After getting them haltered on the lead attached turn them in a circle each way. They can't fight the turns as much and you're introducing them to giving into pressure. Once you've done the 2 circles your ready for going straight. Apply pressure to the lead, not enough to pull them to you just enough that they can't move backwards. They may fight you and throw a temper tantrum (my minis always did including throwing themselves on the ground) but just stay calm and keep that steady pressure on them. Once they move forward even if it's just a leaning of their body but their feet stay planted release the pressure and praise with words and a scratch. Apply pressure again but this time keep it up until you get one foot to move forward. Release and praise. Expect a little more out of them each time and they'll be leading like a champ in no time. I keep lessons short in the beginning 10 minutes for the filly and double that time for the mare. Always end on a good note and reward them at the end by doing something they like - mine love to get brushed so I always did that after a training session.

Good luck and welcome to the wonderful world of minis!


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Try a butt rope that is who we lead break foals. A the size ratios are comparable and it can be easier to apply the pressure behind the whole horse than on its head. That way if she balks you can physically force the horse forward.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Enimo said:


> take a day next week when I can have a few hours to work with her, if necessary. I will put her in the corral, place the halter on her and spend time rubbing on her and getting her used to the lead. I will place the lead on her and use the techniques provided by you all and see how it goes. At what point do I end the day?.


So... you DO have a round pen, just that you call it a 'coral'... and maybe it's also got corners!:wink::lol: If you have an area small enough that you can keep a hold of a (long) rope without putting pressure on her all the time, that's great.

Sounds good to me, except for the 'hours' bit. A few minutes here & there are better than long sessions generally, especially for basic early training, especially if it's something that could evoke fear. But if you've got hours to spare, you could probably do 10 or so short 'sessions' in that time. Just ensure there are stress free breaks in between.

Always quit while you're ahead. Don't ask too much of a horse more than you think they can *confidently* give you, and quit the instant you get it. If she starts to get panicky, stop there, do something 'easy' & stress free for a bit. Horses can't 'think' when they get into that reactionary mindset, so no point continuing. Try to work gradually enough, non-confrontationally enough, that you can practice & build on successes & minimise 'practicing' bad emotions/reactions like that.


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## Enimo (Jan 31, 2015)

First, thanks for your response to my post. I wanted to tell you where I am now with my mini and get your thoughts. Monday I went out and get her to walk in the corral, placed the halter on her, rubbed on her for a few minutes and gave her a lot of praise. I then place the lead on her and she didn't like it, of course. But, I really did a lot of petting and rubbing and she calmed right down. I let her pull back on the lead and I held firm and called her to me (should I do that?) and as soon as she took one step forward I released...we did this several times. I worked with her about 10 minutes and gave her a treat afterward. Today I did the same thing but decided to take her out of the corral and see how she acted. Initially she wanted to get excited a little and actually reared up once, but them calmed down. I rubbed on her a lot and she was fine...she is a very sweet horse. I then stared walking and calling her and she started following me. She walked behind me for 50 yards or so without any issues. I turned to go back to the corral and every now and then she would want to stop...but she would quickly give in and walk on behind me. One question is should I have tried this? She doesn't like for me to hold her halter with my hand. She doesn't run away, just pulls back. Also, when I try to turn her with the lead when right beside her head, she doesn't do well with that. I think it is my approach. I guess my biggest question is if I am going about this all wrong. Should I have led her like I did. I am in no hurry to have her halter broken, and I am willing to continue to doing like I am if it works. Thanks again for your willingness to help.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Enimo said:


> First, thanks for your response to my post. I wanted to tell you where I am now with my mini and get your thoughts. Monday I went out and get her to walk in the corral, placed the halter on her, rubbed on her for a few minutes and gave her a lot of praise. I then place the lead on her and she didn't like it, of course. But, I really did a lot of petting and rubbing and she calmed right down. I let her pull back on the lead and I held firm and called her to me (should I do that?) and as soon as she took one step forward I released...we did this several times. I worked with her about 10 minutes and gave her a treat afterward. Today I did the same thing but decided to take her out of the corral and see how she acted. Initially she wanted to get excited a little and actually reared up once, but them calmed down. I rubbed on her a lot and she was fine...she is a very sweet horse. I then stared walking and calling her and she started following me. She walked behind me for 50 yards or so without any issues. I turned to go back to the corral and every now and then she would want to stop...but she would quickly give in and walk on behind me. One question is should I have tried this? She doesn't like for me to hold her halter with my hand. She doesn't run away, just pulls back. Also, when I try to turn her with the lead when right beside her head, she doesn't do well with that. I think it is my approach. I guess my biggest question is if I am going about this all wrong. Should I have led her like I did. I am in no hurry to have her halter broken, and I am willing to continue to doing like I am if it works. Thanks again for your willingness to help.


As long as she's willing to go for walks, I'd walk. It gives her time to get used to all the "doin's" without concentrating on the fact that she's haltered and led. 

If the halter can't slip over her head, I'd pet her and run my hand onto the halter and hold it for a second. If she complains (pulls back)I'd plant my feet and hold hard until she gives to pressure and steps forward, then I'd release and praise her to High Heaven. She could get "stuck" in the pull back position, I've had young horses who haven't thoroughly learned about giving to pressure do that, you can just hook a toe around her hind leg and give her a push to get her unstuck, doesn't matter forward or sideways, just get her feet moving again. Act like it's no big deal and pet some more and then hold the halter again. Just keep doing it until she's tired of reacting to your hand being on her halter, she'll figure it out pretty quick. 

As for turning while she's on the lead, I would try to telegraph what I was going to do next with my body language. For instance, you're walking straight line and you see that in 25 feet you want to turn right. Start looking right, then as you get closer, turn your shoulders right and follow with your belt buckle, THEN you should be close enough to turn and walk to the right. You'll have been telling her that you're turning, so she should walk right with you, no problem. Same thing to the left, if I'm understanding your question properly. I suspect you're walking up to where you want to turn and turning sharply which she doesn't understand. You need to give her time to think about what you're going to ask her to do.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I put the halter on my baby and then used a thick leadrope that would not wrap around his legs. I let him drag it around a few hours a day. He learned to give to the pressure when he stepped on the rope. A lot of people will use a lead that is only 12 to 24 inches. They just leave it dangling from the halter. You need to be semi nearby while you do this though.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^:shock::shock: You let the horse drag & STAND ON the rope Farm?? I'll have you know I've been berated for this practice being deadly dangerous & highly irresponsible! 

Yeah I would caution people not to do this without first desensitising horses to ropes around their legs, and without first teaching horses to yield to pressure - seen some 'mishaps' due to the horse thinking it was being chased by a very fast, aggressive snake, and also, as horses tend to panic when they 'hit' firm pressure they don't understand, but absolutely I reckon teaching them dragging ropes are OK & if you step on it, how to 'release' the pressure is one important lesson IMO. To those who believe it's irresponsible, I think it's more so not to attend to that type of thing, because chances are, one day some point in his life, a horse is likely to get loose with a leadrope attached - best prepare him so he doesn't blow a fuse when it happens.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> I put the halter on my baby and then used a thick leadrope that would not wrap around his legs. I let him drag it around a few hours a day. He learned to give to the pressure when he stepped on the rope. A lot of people will use a lead that is only 12 to 24 inches. They just leave it dangling from the halter. You need to be semi nearby while you do this though.





Loosie said:


> ^ You let the horse drag & STAND ON the rope Farm?? I'll have you know I've been berated for this practice being deadly dangerous & highly irresponsible!
> 
> Yeah I would caution people not to do this without first desensitising horses to ropes around their legs, and without first teaching horses to yield to pressure - seen some 'mishaps' due to the horse thinking it was being chased by a very fast, aggressive snake, and also, as horses tend to panic when they 'hit' firm pressure they don't understand, but absolutely I reckon teaching them dragging ropes are OK & if you step on it, how to 'release' the pressure is one important lesson IMO. To those who believe it's irresponsible, I think it's more so not to attend to that type of thing, because chances are, one day some point in his life, a horse is likely to get loose with a leadrope attached - best prepare him so he doesn't blow a fuse when it happens.


I use that lead rope, trail, step on it method too. I start with a short grab strap on the little guys, then we graduate to what I call the Foal Come Along:










And then we graduate to just walking and following Mommy on a lead rope and then, just before weaning, when they're starting to get too big for their britches and Mom starts looking at you like, "Will you PLEASE be so kind as to do SOMETHING with that TICK?", then we start going for walks without Mommy. I use a fairly short lead rope, so that it can hit the ground but only by maybe 6 inches, and that way if they get away from me, the rope can't get too badly tangled, and we go out into the arena to learn about flapping ropes, stepping on them and how we really can live through it. After they get chased by that one a time or 2, I put a regular lead rope on them and we start walking all over the property. If they get away from me at this point, they step on the rope a time or 2 and stop running and just start grazing.


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## Enimo (Jan 31, 2015)

So, the reason she ran Mach 8 like her hair was on fire when she took off with the lead rope was she thought it was a snake or something else chasing her...that's funny, but it makes sense. I hated to see her scared like that but she calmed down quickly when I got to her. Yesterday, after leading her around for a bit, I took her back to the stall and just groomed her. I laid the lead rope on her and let the clip bang up against her several times and she was not really affected by it. For her, I think she really trusts me and its just a matter of taking it slow and she will be fine. Question: when, how, or do you ever use treats during training other than at the end of a good session? Thanks again!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I use treats just because I want to give them one but for training I use a good boy/girl along with a neck scratch or face rub for a reward.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Enimo said:


> Question: when, how, or do you ever use treats during training other than at the end of a good session? Thanks again!


I rarely use treats in training, because with foals you can create a mouthy, nippy little monster in a very short time. I'll give them a treat just because or at the end of the grooming session, if I have something in my pocket. Otherwise, I just scritch, pet, love and curry them and praise, praise, praise.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I do frequently use food in training, and other rewards, such as a good scratch. I use them as positive reinforcement for learning behaviours, not just as a 'treat' after 'work'. Horses learn from instant consequences to their behaviour, so whatever reward/punishment happens *at the time of* a behaviour is what influences that behaviour. If it's seconds or more later, it is not going to impact that behaviour. So for eg. hand feeding does NOT teach a horse to be 'mouthy', to 'mug for treats', but if you reinforce/feed them when they're being 'rude' in this manner, YOU are teaching them that is the Right behaviour.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Love the idea of leaving a lead just long enough to step on and letting the horse loose to figure it out.

I do this with ALL my horses when they first come, you would be amazed at how many "trained" horses will completely lose their minds.

I think it's an invaluable training tool and is important for safety ("oops horse stepped on lead, lets back him up" as opposed to complete panic as often happens)

I would make sure she has some basic give to pressure training first and make sure it's not long enough to tangle.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> Love the idea of leaving a lead just long enough to step on and letting the horse loose to figure it out.
> 
> I do this with ALL my horses when they first come, you would be amazed at how many "trained" horses will completely lose their minds.
> 
> ...


I know that doing that has stopped a couple of horses that came through here from breaking their necks. I've seen a horse that's torn off leg straps get the blanket around their neck and step on it and stop, boom. Otherwise, that could cause them to flip and be a neck breaker.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I think it's a similar concept to hobbling, which personally I haven't done (yet) but can completely see how useful it would be.

It's a safety feature imo.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> I think it's a similar concept to hobbling, which personally I haven't done (yet) but can completely see how useful it would be.
> 
> It's a safety feature imo.


I do hobbling too, especially for mares that will be bred.


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