# Trailer Towing 101



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I would never consider hauling my gooseneck with hubby's half ton work truck
There is a reason we have a truck just for towing the horse trailer! It has to be a heavy duty 3/4 ton, in my books
Lots of good info in that article-thanks , Joel
Long time ago, when pulling a bumper trailer, and also a camper, I just about learned the hard was, far as having an equalizer hitch We did not have one at the time, and I about lost the entire truck and trailer, when that trailer started to fish tail all over the road, rounding a curve. Not only the two horses and myself were at risk, but my two young children at the time, riding with me
I managed to ride it out, but it was a very close call!


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

You're probably preaching to the choir ----- I hope not.

So many people think they can get away with under trucking themselves. Maybe they can for awhile but, sooner or later, equipment starts breaking down or there's an accident involving horses



> It's a short little article with some good information, including the difference between a fifth wheel hitch and a gooseneck hitch,


That is something I didn't know about and is good information ---- even if I am going out of this life with my old open stock, bumper pull. I "understand" bumper pulls, and I understand clutches. It's too late in the game for me to learn "gooseneck" and "automatic", lollollol


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

This is sort of a rant.

What I find irritating when people are giving advice about pulling horse trailers is that they throw their opinions out there without asking for pertinent information. One person will say "I would never pull a three horse trailer with a half ton pickup, I've done it and it sucked". Another will say "I do and don't have any problems". Neither are totally accurate.

It seems to me that a lot of people don't consider the exact build that they have. One person can have a chevy 1500 that can pull all day long and another can have a seemingly exact same truck and it's a dog when pulling. Same with any brand of truck. The way that they build pickups these days leave consumers with a lot of choices. What kind of rear end do you have? 3.08? 3.42? 3.73? 4.10? etc. What is your transmission like 4 speed? 6? 8? What is your suspension like? Your brakes? External coolers? What towing package do you have, if any? What kind of hitch are you using? Most of this info is right there in your glove box to see. 
All of these things make a difference and worth while of consideration when giving advise or when doing research about what you can pull and what you can stop.

And then you have to get into what kind of trailer and it's weight. Not all trailers are made the same either.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

While what you say is true^^^^^, there are more things to consider with a half ton truck than pulling power.

A 3/4 ton and up gets a person stronger brakes for stopping, bigger radiator for cooling, and a better transmission.

DH is 68 and has worked for Ford since he was 17. He is the parts manager and builds his own race cars so he is no dummy. As he is getting ready for work, I'm asking him about these new half ton trucks and their towing ability. My heavy 3/4 ton GMC is a 1978 with a 1973 re-built 454 and DH's truck is a 1988 F-350 Lariat dually with a re-built 460; they will pull the barn off the foundation.

He says, these days it depends on the "Package" that comes with a truck as to what it can pull, *but a half ton STILL has its limits.*

He says, *in a pinch * I could use his half ton daily driver to take ONE of my horses to the vet clinic in my four-horse open stock. Could I use that truck to pull that trailer up the mile long grade into Belvidere, TN to trail ride? Not "No but H**L NO!"

So I stand by what I have always said, and that is don't under truck one self. Hubby's cute little F-150 with the back seat, leather seats, full,power and fancy new JVC radio just cannot do the big muscle jobs my old 3/4 GMC or his old F-350 can. I have never pulled even a two-horse trailer with less than a 3/4 ton truck and never will as it isn't likely that both our big trucks would be down at the same time; I will cancel a vet appointment first.

Anyone who wants to continually take chance hauling with a lesser truck, have at it. When equipment starts to fail or, perish the thought, there's an accident, don't come whining on the forum. Those little trucks may do the job for a long time on the Flat Lands but, they won't last a month in Hill Country


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

What you say is true. But heck, you can always try to under truck yourself. Would I try to pull the barn down with a full ton? Maybe. With a 1/2 ton? Maybe not. A full ton would not pull a semi tractor trailer either. A half ton with a heavy duty trailer package, a 6.0 l engine, 8 speed tranny with the heavy duty tranny and oil coolers that the heavy duty trailer package comes with and a 3.73 or upgraded 4.10 that is rated for 12000 lbs can pull a lighter three horse trailer fully loaded with no problem and without wrecking your tow vehicle. Also, many 1500's can come with either a v6 or v8 5.3 or 6.0. All I am saying is that you can't make a blanket statement without all of the info. You are not taking a chance when you know what you have and what you can or can't do with it. Taking a chance is doing it anyway without exactly knowing what you have to work with or going beyond what your particular build is capable of. I know that manufacturers want to get their vehicles as high as possible but I also don't think that they are going to lure the general public into having wrecks for it.

Honestly, If my 1/2 ton pick up can't pull or stop my 1900 lb two horse trailer with both horses in then my truck has a serious problem. But it can and very easily.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Here we go again.

I will only comment that I pull a (relatively light, and easy pulling) 2-place BP trailer with a six-cylinder Toyota T-100, on the flat, and in the mountains. Other than being sorta slow, I have never had any trouble at all with this setup over 7 years and many many tow-miles. (I also pull a flatbed car-hauler with my tractor loaded on it.) The "T" gets 20MPG empty, and around 16MPG with a trailer.

That said, I built this truck myself, from junkyard components, and specifically with this purpose in mind. I installed a set of somewhat stiffer rear springs with new Poly shackle bushings, and run KYB offroad shocks on all four corners. It has a 4-Runner 5-speed transmission, with a very heavy-duty clutch. Everything else is stock. I'm careful to keep the brake controller adjusted properly. I use an appropriate gear to keep the motor spinning at a happy spot; I watch the tach, not the speedo. I drive very defensively.

Were someone to _give_ me a newer, larger, turbo-diesel whatever, I would probably sell it, and put the money in the bank; I _like_ my Toyota truck. And I dislike the smell, sound, _and_ automatic transmissions associated with todays diesel trucks. I also dislike the associated costs-of-ownership; I can fix anything that might go wrong with the "T" in my back yard; don't know squat 'bout no diesel engines, and my only knowledge about ATs is how to replace 'em when they go bad, which they _always_ do, eventually; faster if you work 'em hard.

If that Megatruck makes you feel more secure, by all means drive it, but IMO the "defensive driving" thing is the dominant factor in any trailering safety equation, not the size of the tow vehicle. My $.02

Steve


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

george the mule said:


> Here we go again.
> 
> I will only comment that I pull a (relatively light, and easy pulling) 2-place BP trailer with a six-cylinder Toyota T-100, on the flat, and in the mountains. Other than being sorta slow, I have never had any trouble at all with this setup over 7 years and many many tow-miles. (I also pull a flatbed car-hauler with my tractor loaded on it.) The "T" gets 20MPG empty, and around 16MPG with a trailer.
> 
> ...


That's what I'm saying. I have a chevy 1500 that is rated to pull 9800 lbs. I get 23 mpg on the highway and when I tow my 2 horse trailer I get about 15 or 16 mpg. I'm looking for a three horse bumper pull to go usually short distances on flat ground. I'm not looking for a three horse McMansion. Just a simple trailer with a tack compartment. My truck is rated for 9800 lbs. and has all of the components in it for towing. If I can find a reasonably priced 3 horse BP at right around 3000 lbs (give or take a couple of hundred lbs) and have 3700 lbs of horse and tack in it, I don't see any reason why that would be taxing my tow vehicle or making it dangerous. It would sure beat having my B/O's F350 that gets 14 mpg all of the time whether towing or not. I'm not knocking her truck, she needs it. She has a 3 horse GN with living quarters and two tack rooms. Sure, a 3/4 or full ton could pull a small 3h up a mountain at 70 mph. That would be great I suppose. Do I need to? Not really.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

-----


george the mule said:


> that said, i built this truck myself, from junkyard components, and specifically with this purpose in mind.*you said it all, right there. My '78 gmc came from the factory as a heavy 3/4. It is beefed up with one ton cargo van springs on the rear and i put in a custom built 1973 454 after the stock 350 laid down from too many pulls (my stock trailer) up into the allegheny mountains.*
> 
> *i used that truck to safely haul my horses from pa to socal, then back to middle tennessee five years later. It still runs like a top and best of all it's been paid off since 1981.*
> 
> ...


-------


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

You can love and drive your big trucks without denying that the smaller ones can still do more than they used to and be able to do what they are advertised to do. That's what those engineers get paid big bucks for when they work for the major manufacturers.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

The only piece that I will contribute to this thread is...

I don't care who manufactured the truck....
ALL TRUCKS ARE "TESTED" WITH A STAGNANT WEIGHT LOAD......

So, please remember that as we haul LIVE CARGO those stagnant load weights are a moot point and a very "generalized" guideline to what the vehicle should be able to do....

Now returning you to your discussion....:smile:

:runninghorse2::runninghorse2:.....


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

LoriF said:


> You can love and drive your big trucks without denying that the smaller ones can still do more than they used to and be able to do what they are advertised to do. That's what those engineers get paid big bucks for when they work for the major manufacturers.


Hi Lori, All!

Yes, and much depends on your expectations. I don't expect to _drive_ to the top of The Mountain at 70MPH, I expect to _arrive_ at the top of The Mountain.



walkinthewalk said:


> -----
> 
> (?? - What you said . . .)
> -------


Walk, yea, that bit of randomness will get ya; probably will get most of us eventually, but you can't stay in bed with the covers over your head all day worryin' about it, either  In favor of a BIG truck/vehicle, when DooDoo Occurs, a large vehicle will almost always fair better than a smaller one. Science ;-)


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

LoriF said:


> One person will say "I would never pull a three horse trailer with a half ton pickup, I've done it and it sucked". Another will say "I do and don't have any problems". Neither are totally accurate.


That's true.



LoriF said:


> 3.08? 3.42? 3.73? 4.10? etc. What is your transmission like 4 speed? 6? 8? What is your suspension like? Your brakes? External coolers? What towing package do you have, if any? What kind of hitch are you using?


Many of today's half ton pickups can be optioned to pull over 10,000 pounds, which would cover most three horse bumper pulls with capacity to spare. The brakes, radiator, transmission cooler, rear end ratio, hitch, etc. are all more than adequate. You can even get a brake controller as a factory option. However, equip those same pickups without the tow options and all of a sudden you don't want to get caught on a windy highway or a mountain pass pulling even a two-horse trailer.

One of the nice things about the 3/4 tons is the lack of options. If you buy a gas powered Sierra or Silverado 2500, you get the same 6.0 liter engine, 6-speed transmission, and 4.10 rear end no matter what. You give up some gas mileage and accept a rougher ride when empty, but there really isn't any significant difference in cost (unless you choose diesel). And in GM's case, their gas-powered 2500s are more reliable and longer lasting than their half ton counterparts.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Joel Reiter said:


> That's true.
> 
> 
> 
> Many of today's half ton pickups can be optioned to pull over 10,000 pounds, which would cover most three horse bumper pulls with capacity to spare. The brakes, radiator, transmission cooler, rear end ratio, hitch, etc. are all more than adequate. You can even get a brake controller as a factory option. However, equip those same pickups without the tow options and all of a sudden you don't want to get caught on a windy highway or a mountain pass pulling even a two-horse trailer.


Exactly, which is why it bothers me that people make blanket statements either way. There are some people that would try to pull anything with a lighter truck no matter how it's built and others that think that you can't even pull a half full apple cart unless you have a full ton pick up. And, a lot of people who don't even know what they have even though most of the info is right there in the glove box and on the internet to check.



Joel Reiter said:


> One of the nice things about the 3/4 tons is the lack of options. If you buy a gas powered Sierra or Silverado 2500, you get the same 6.0 liter engine, 6-speed transmission, and 4.10 rear end no matter what. You give up some gas mileage and accept a rougher ride when empty, but there really isn't any significant difference in cost (unless you choose diesel). And in GM's case, their gas-powered 2500s are more reliable and longer lasting than their half ton counterparts.


I guess it would be nicer to get the 2500 without having to hunt down what you want like you would in the 1500. I would assume there wouldn't be much of a price difference between a 1500 with options that are the same as the 2500 stock. But comparing apples to apples, why would one last longer than the other?


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

LoriF said:


> But comparing apples to apples, why would one last longer than the other?


I don't know why the Silverado and Sierra 2500's last longer and give less trouble than their half-ton cousins. I base my statement on three sources:


A study of cars on the road over 200,000 miles Longest Lasting Vehicles Over 200,000 Miles ? 2016 Study Shows Top 10 Consists of Mostly Trucks and SUVs
Consumer Reports (the diesels have more problems)
Testimony from owners. One of my veterinarians has over 300,000 miles on a Silverado 2500 and bought a new one mainly for the tax deduction. Several others have related similar experiences


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

it all depends on where you haul. Hauling in to some mountain areas that we ride in, you climb not one mountain, but several, and anyone who has hauled into the Little Elbow, knows that the grade going over the summit is continuously upwards , for miles. 
I'll take extra towing power there anytime, as even a heavy duty 3/4 ton has to work
You just don't see half tons puling to the mountains here We're Canadians, eh!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

You got 'er Smilie. I would love to see a 1/2 ton pulling any kind of trailer up the Little Fort hill, or down it for the that matter, for added fun, moose love to come out in front of you.


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## mjw1048 (Apr 13, 2017)

I have an F150 with a max tow package (can tow around 10,600). I'm looking at a 2H slant load, all aluminum trailer. Do you usually use a weight distribution and sway control with a small trailer like that? I've towed a camper before, but never a horse trailer.

Thnx.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Just because you can pull it doesn't mean you should pull with it...

Actually, no matter what the truck can pull or can't pull, exceed the Gross Combination Weight Rating and you're in violation of the law....

Adding springs, etc doesn't change the rating which is set by the manufacturer at the time of production. If it's rated for 12,500 GCWR then forever that's what it is.

I suggest you have a conversation with your insurance carrier if you're not certain how much weight you're legal to pull/haul.

The article in the link below explains some of the liability issues regarding failure to observer the manufactures ratings.

Towing Liability: Pickup Tow Ratings explained | Medium Duty Work Truck Info

Frankly, you never want to tow with a vehicle that exceeds the manufactures rating.....this is a case where bigger is always better.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say ..... there are a lot of variables!

To avoid freeway traffic homeward today I took the 'back route' which has a very long steep hill on a narrow winding road in it (same hill I blew my knees out on my bicycle years ago, in fact). It was probably stupid, but the traffic here is absolutely unbearable. I have a 900 lb horse in a 1900 lb trailer and my new turbo charged F-150 with the full tow package was perfectly okay with it (my horse on the other hand thought it sucked. But she always hates the trailer). 

I would have no problems hauling this to the Sierras (10,000 feet of elevation gain) and in fact will, at least twice this summer, if the snow ever melts. But I am not saying I would be as happy pulling a bigger rig, or a couple more horses. 

Lots of variables. Not all half tons are the same, that's for sure. Our old Toyota Tundra would have crawled miserably up that grade.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

waresbear said:


> You got 'er Smilie. I would love to see a 1/2 ton pulling any kind of trailer up the Little Fort hill, or down it for the that matter, for added fun, moose love to come out in front of you.


Well, I guess that the half ton pick up with the heavy duty towing package, 6.0l engine and the same gear ratio that the 2500 has (which is an option for the 1500) would pretty much do the same thing being as they have the same of everything on it. Putting the 1500 or 2500 emblem on the side of the truck doesn't change anything. I guess maybe the suspension might be a little different, I don't know. 

I guess the only difference would be if you choose the 2500 with a diesel engine which most would agree that they last longer than their gasoline counterparts which you can also choose for the 2500.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> The only piece that I will contribute to this thread is...
> 
> I don't care who manufactured the truck....
> ALL TRUCKS ARE "TESTED" WITH A STAGNANT WEIGHT LOAD......
> ...



I've seen them tested pulling trailers with containers put in them filled with water so not totally stagnant as water moves around quite a bit.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Avna said:


> I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say ..... there are a lot of variables!
> 
> To avoid freeway traffic homeward today I took the 'back route' which has a very long steep hill on a narrow winding road in it (same hill I blew my knees out on my bicycle years ago, in fact). It was probably stupid, but the traffic here is absolutely unbearable. I have a 900 lb horse in a 1900 lb trailer and my new turbo charged F-150 with the full tow package was perfectly okay with it (my horse on the other hand thought it sucked. But she always hates the trailer).
> 
> ...


Exactly, That is what I'm trying to say. There are so many variables and options that you can get with a truck these days. So making a blanket statement either way is not accurate. One mans chevy 1500 or F150 may not even compare to the next guys. So someone tells me "oh yeah, I pull that same size trailer all of the time with my 1500 with no problems, you can do it" and then I try it and it's not working out so good. The only difference is that he has a shorter gear ratio than me. And that makes a big difference.


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

And then there is the debate on the proper license you need to haul what you haul. I recently came on this article, Are you legal transporting horses across state lines?, that some may find useful, even if you don't haul across state lines. States, of course, vary on what they require license-wise, but many people don't realize that their State might require license above what your currently have. 

As for the proper truck to haul your load, as long as you crunch the numbers [this is only one of many articles online which help you do that] (which many people do not do) and can safely haul you, your horse and be safe on the road with your tow vehicle with respect to others on the road, have at it. My personal preference may not be yours, but I hope that all who are hauling are doing so safely for everyone concerned. Not always the case, but that is the hope.


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

My F250 has a gas engine, which means that the front brakes on it are smaller than on the same F250 with a diesel engine. It makes no sense to me, but true. Tow weight is less due to Ford using smaller brakes on gas trucks. Every truck is different.


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## Cowgirl140ty (Jan 7, 2010)

We have a 2015 dodge ecodiesel 1500 with an 11,000 lb tow rating. It comes with a tow package equiped to haul that weight. We have used it to haul our older steel 2 horse bumper pull loaded as well as our 3 horse slant aluminum gooseneck horse trailer. No issues what so ever. That said, we use our f250 to haul our 3 horse with 10 ft living.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

mred said:


> My F250 has a gas engine, which means that the front brakes on it are smaller than on the same F250 with a diesel engine. It makes no sense to me, but true. Tow weight is less due to Ford using smaller brakes on gas trucks. Every truck is different.


I don't know why they do that either. I changed my brakes and rotors to something more effective than what I originally had.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Scroll down to question 21. Maybe every state is different but in Florida where I live, they use these guidelines.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/section/390.3


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I doubt there's much enforcement of private haulers unless they're blatantly overloaded, doing something unsafe, i.e, being a menace to traffic, or are involved in an accident.

That said, some posters in other forums I read, i.e, yesterdays tractors, have been stopped and ticketed for things related to towing.....so while somewhat infrequent, It does happen.

Get involved in an accident with injury and the lawyers start looking for un-dotted I's and un-crossed T's.....then it's a feeding frenzy for the sharks....

I was involved in a multi car accident back in 2012....with injuries....everyone involved was sued....for $535,000...everyone was deposed........so here we are, in a room, with 6 lawyers and a court reporter....each one trying to show negligence. The questions were quite granular and detailed.....when was the last time you had your tires rotated and balanced.....do you have the reciept? etc.....you get the picture.....not fun...

I carry the max coverage and also a 2 million dollar umbrella policy.......I no longer service my equipment myself, but pay to have a certified mechanic do it....and keep all the receipts....not because I can't, but because of the experience I personally had.....

There's rules.....you can break them, and most likely get away with it.....

I do my best to play by the rules....and avoid the consequences of bending them.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

@gunslinger

Did you add your horse trailer to your regular vehicle insurance policy or did you have to find a different, specialty company?


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Chasin Ponies said:


> Did you add your horse trailer to your regular vehicle insurance policy or did you have to find a different, specialty company?


I have my horse trailer on full coverage with USAA with my other vehicles. Only $13 a month! Totally worth. Its covered even while parked if a tree falls on it now. Before it was only covered by liability while actually being towed.


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