# Won't respond lunging counter clockwise



## Baylee (Apr 10, 2011)

I've been having issues getting my horse to listen when I lunge her. The thing is, it's only a problem when lunging counter clockwise .When ever I have her going that way, she easily goes from a walk to a trot when I ask her to but she will not slow from a trot to a walk until she feels like it- despite me giving her the command to slow down. She's a very good girl and knows how to lunge but this is her only issue right now. I've figured out that going to the left isn't her 'good' side and for whatever reason responds better going clockwise.

How can I get her to listen and pay attention going counter clockwise?


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

If the only cues you use are verbal cues, you're probably going to have a harder time controlling the horse. Remember when you're lunging a horse, you're basically doing join-up on a lunge line. So if the horse is telling you "okay, I trust you, can I come in now?" and you're constantly pushing the horse forward, eventually the horse will give up and just stop listening because you're not listening to the horse.

Horses don't speak, so they tend to listen more to body language more than verbal cues. If all you have to work with in order to slow a horse down is "whoa" you're going to be in big trouble if that doesn't work. When I lunge, I have three cues to work with that I've taught the horse: "whoa" and I pick up on the line to take slack out of it, and I give the hindquarter yield. That's three chances for the horse to slow down. Eventually as the horse gets better at lunging, I can start weeding out until I get down to just "whoa," but I make sure that the horse always responds to all three.

It's also a good idea to constantly reverse directions, and take rests every minute or so. This lets the horse know that you are listening and mixing things up a bit, so the horse learns to always pay attention and be ready for a cue, instead of just going around and around in a boring circle for five minutes.


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## Baylee (Apr 10, 2011)

I will try that next time I lunge her-thanks for the help!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Laffeetaffee said:


> Remember when you're lunging a horse, you're basically doing join-up on a lunge line. So if the horse is telling you "okay, I trust you, can I come in now?" and you're constantly pushing the horse forward, eventually the horse will give up and just stop listening because you're not listening to the horse.


What? No.... 

I think it should be thought of as riding from the ground. You are asking the horse to go forward, you are giving the horse a direction, and you are keeping in mind the timing.

The horse should not tune you out, ever. If that happens, you need to redirect their focus. Ask once verbally, ask twice with a little jiggle on the lunge line with a verbal cue and move your body infront of the "at hip" position, third time shorten that lungeline and turn her in with your verbal cue. When she starts to slow, then release your pressure and slowly feed the lungeline back out.

If you want her to stop and she won't, then do the same until she is standing at halt, then immediately release pressure.

SAME concept as riding, only with different things being your hands, seat, leg. Your leg is your "lunge whip" your seat is your body language, and your hands are still your hands.

Eventually it will only need to be body language combined with verbal and maybe some whip to add more energy.

~~

Now keep in mind the horse may be stretching out and feeling better, then they're likely not to want to wind down and stop. So make sure you read the horse and not just go through the motions of w/t/c. Add transitions, move your circle around the arena so you cover more space, lunge through and around obstacles. Make it interesting.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

If you want the horse to ALWAYS turn to face you on whoa, then you can follow LaffeeTaffee's suggestion, however, for some disciplines, and when long-lining, it is BEYOND annoying to the point of being dangerous, for the horse to leave the path of the circle. I prefer to not let them. I want them to stop in the circle, then do the next movement when I direct it.

Do you use a whip? If not, get one. Horses are generally one-sided, and need pushing one way.

Nancy


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

greentree said:


> If you want the horse to ALWAYS turn to face you on whoa, then you can follow LaffeeTaffee's suggestion, however, for some disciplines, and when long-lining, it is BEYOND annoying to the point of being dangerous, for the horse to leave the path of the circle. I prefer to not let them. I want them to stop in the circle, then do the next movement when I direct it.
> 
> Do you use a whip? If not, get one. Horses are generally one-sided, and need pushing one way.
> 
> Nancy


Yes.. my horse was taught to turn in and HE DID IT UNDER SADDLE. It's freaking annoying, and was a VERY hard habit to break.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

greentree said:


> If you want the horse to ALWAYS turn to face you on whoa, then you can follow LaffeeTaffee's suggestion, however, for some disciplines, and when long-lining, it is BEYOND annoying to the point of being dangerous, for the horse to leave the path of the circle. I prefer to not let them. I want them to stop in the circle, then do the next movement when I direct it.
> 
> Do you use a whip? If not, get one. Horses are generally one-sided, and need pushing one way.
> 
> Nancy


The reason I teach horses to turn in when I stop them is because it is a "yes, you rang, madame?" I can back the horse up from that position, go and catch them, point and keep them going, or turn them around and send them off the other way. The horse does not come near me and if he tries, I back him up by wiggling the line. It's not dangerous at all unless you have a horse that is in the habit of charging, in which case the horse needs a LOT more respect training.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

Lunging a horse is exactly the same body language and cues that you would give if you were doing join-up with a horse. You are driving the horse in a circle and keeping them going when they slow down. If you have a respectful horse and you lunge them for long periods of time, you will notice them lowering their head and licking and chewing, exactly the same as if you were doing join-up. So if you completely ignore this and keep them going, eventually they will stop doing it. It is something to keep in mind when you lunge, it is NOT the same as riding because you are guiding the horse in different directions and the horse's attention is in front of him, not beside him while he runs in a mindless circle for ten to twenty minutes (unless you just rode your horse the same direction in a round pen). It is about as mindless as running on a treadmill for an hour without knowing why you're doing it. Lunging has not been around for very long either, if people wanted to exercise their horse, they would ride them or take them on walks. Lunging is a good way to help a horse release built-up energy or to gain respect on the ground. Yet recently, people have also discovered how convenient it is that you can stand in one spot and have a horse run in a circle around you at any gait, so why not use it for exercise?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Laffeetaffee said:


> Lunging a horse is exactly the same body language and cues that you would give if you were doing join-up with a horse. You are driving the horse in a circle and keeping them going when they slow down. If you have a respectful horse and you lunge them for long periods of time, you will notice them lowering their head and licking and chewing, exactly the same as if you were doing join-up. So if you completely ignore this and keep them going, eventually they will stop doing it. It is something to keep in mind when you lunge, it is NOT the same as riding because you are guiding the horse in different directions and the horse's attention is in front of him, not beside him while he runs in a mindless circle for ten to twenty minutes (unless you just rode your horse the same direction in a round pen). It is about as mindless as running on a treadmill for an hour without knowing why you're doing it. Lunging has not been around for very long either, if people wanted to exercise their horse, they would ride them or take them on walks. Lunging is a good way to help a horse release built-up energy or to gain respect on the ground. Yet recently, people have also discovered how convenient it is that you can stand in one spot and have a horse run in a circle around you at any gait, so why not use it for exercise?


I respectfully disagree.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Laffeetaffee said:


> Lunging a horse is exactly the same body language and cues that you would give if you were doing join-up with a horse. You are driving the horse in a circle and keeping them going when they slow down. If you have a respectful horse and you lunge them for long periods of time, you will notice them lowering their head and licking and chewing, exactly the same as if you were doing join-up. So if you completely ignore this and keep them going, eventually they will stop doing it. It is something to keep in mind when you lunge, it is NOT the same as riding because you are guiding the horse in different directions and the horse's attention is in front of him, not beside him while he runs in a mindless circle for ten to twenty minutes (unless you just rode your horse the same direction in a round pen). It is about as mindless as running on a treadmill for an hour without knowing why you're doing it. Lunging has not been around for very long either, if people wanted to exercise their horse, they would ride them or take them on walks. Lunging is a good way to help a horse release built-up energy or to gain respect on the ground. Yet recently, people have also discovered how convenient it is that you can stand in one spot and have a horse run in a circle around you at any gait, so why not use it for exercise?



Lunging a horse has been around for many many years. It is not a recent invention. I have no idea where you come up with the things you do. And where did you get idea that people took them on walks to exercise them in olden days?

And it is NOT the same as "join up". It is done for suppling, energy release, getting kinks out, to get horse in the beginning stages of being trained, prior to training to cart, or to saddle.

And not done for long periods of time either. Done long enough to get done what is needed. No need to overdo this.



As for OP.

It could be that horse is tight on right side when going to left, chiro or massage would help possibly with that. 

If you run your hands over his body, very lightly, you may be able to "feel" an area where body is tighter, which could be area causing trouble. Think how your shoulder muscles feel when you sleep wrong, that is what you will be feeling for.

Could also be, if this horse is being ridden, that the saddle is leaving sore spots too, due to issues with saddle? Can't remember if under saddle yet, will go see, but something to consider.

Is he doing this at all gaits, or just one?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Laffeetaffee please stop dispensing advice that is blatently wrong, the greeks lunged horses, the classical dressage lot were lunging horses in the 17th century, lunging is not new! it is also NOT joinup with a line.

Lunging is used to teach the horse to walk trot and canter on a cue, it can be used to supple a horse up, improve a horses way of going, improve fitness, improve muscles, improve strength, improve balance and to exercise the horse without riding. Lunging should never realy go on beyond 30mins (except in cirtain circumstances) nor should it be done excessivly for young horses as it puts massive pressure on the joints.

Having them turn in every time you stop is quite frankly dangerous perticularly when you come to longrein a horse (which IMO is essential when breaking a horse) or when you have a panicing horse on the end of the line. I for one would not want a panicing horse going over the top of me!


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Where in heavens name is Laffeetaffee coming up with these things?!

Lunging has been around forever. It is an excellent tool to have when working on conditioning, balance and fine tuning some things. Having a horse turn in is not only annoying, but dangerous. The only time I want a horse to turn in is when I am asking it to change directions on the lunge. Even that I don't do until the horse is fully trained because it can be a mess with youngsters.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Skyseternalangel said:


> I respectfully disagree.


Right on. (me too)


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

faye said:


> Having them turn in every time you stop is quite frankly dangerous perticularly when you come to longrein a horse (which IMO is essential when breaking a horse) or when you have a panicing horse on the end of the line. I for one would not want a panicing horse going over the top of me!


I agree. Even the best trained horse can startle when snow falls off the roof or a foolish kid comes flying around a corner on their mini bike. 

A former trainer used to believe the horse had to face you to respect you. Until she was working a horse and a passing truck hit his air brakes. Broken ribs, broken wrist and concussion later - she changed her mind.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

mls said:


> I agree. Even the best trained horse can startle when snow falls off the roof or a foolish kid comes flying around a corner on their mini bike.
> 
> A former trainer used to believe the horse had to face you to respect you. Until she was working a horse and a passing truck hit his air brakes. Broken ribs, broken wrist and concussion later - she changed her mind.


she was lucky, My mum fractured her neck in 2 places and got a lot of dead muscles in her legs from a paniced horse going over the top of her.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

faye said:


> she was lucky, My mum fractured her neck in 2 places and got a lot of dead muscles in her legs from a paniced horse going over the top of her.


OMG! I can't even begin to imagine how scary and painful that was.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Yep, Its also the reasoon you never lead a horse from directly in front of it, it would have been so much worse if she had no warning and it went over her back!


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

faye said:


> Yep, Its also the reasoon you never lead a horse from directly in front of it, it would have been so much worse if she had no warning and it went over her back!


I can't agree with this enough. It is one of the first things I preach to my students when they first start.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

faye said:


> Yep, Its also the reasoon you never lead a horse from directly in front of it, it would have been so much worse if she had no warning and it went over her back!



Thank you for pointing this out, as this is another piece of advice that is being handed out by LaffeeTaffee right and left.

Leading a horse from in front of it, is both foolish and dangerous with certain breeds especially. That is why you never see Thoroughbreds or Saddlebreds led like that, or any hot blooded horse. If something panics them, or even catches their attention? They will be on top of you in a GA heartbeat. You lead at their throatlatch so you don't end up leading the funeral procession.

While I have gotten in more of habit of leading at long range with the QH at barn INSIDE the barn? I never do it outside.

In the first place, these are not my horses, but WP horses in training, of various ages. I am responsible for them when I have them in hand. I do not take any chances with them ever.

And at Saddlebred barn? If I had lead any from in front? Would have been dismissed. Those Saddlebred trainers don't put up with such.

And at Thoroughbred farm? You would have been wearing a horse if you led from in front. Nothing like a hot TB to make you take notice, add to that the fact that if ONE spooks? They all spook, no matter where they are...instant racetrack.

I also keep one finger extended along lead rope towards horse's jaw, so that if horse swings head towards me, or acts like it wants to get frisky, I can either lightly jab with fingernail, or make a knuckle with forefinger and bump with it to let horse know I'm watching it.

And as for the "wiggling line" advice to get horse to back? Also wrong. I call this WWJJWHACK! All it does is make something simple aggravating for the horse and anyone watching. For the life of me I cannot figure out why anyone came up with this.

Actually had fool argue with me about teaching backing...she said you NEVER touch a horse to get it to back...just WWJJWHACK!! She wants a horse to move when she picks up the lead.

Told her that would work really well with my Showmanship customers and Horsemanship customers horses....and could not WAIT to see trainer's face when I was pulling horse out of stall to WWJJWHACK!

My way works, takes no equipment of any kind and does not result in horse flipping head up to get away from the nutcase on the other end of lead.


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## Baylee (Apr 10, 2011)

Most of the time it's just trotting but occasionally when I have her canter as well.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Baylee said:


> Most of the time it's just trotting but occasionally when I have her canter as well.


Any updates?


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## Baylee (Apr 10, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Any updates?



Unfortunately no  It's been raining for the past 3 days and the pasture is a soggy mess:? With any luck though, I'm hoping sunny weather is on the way!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Baylee said:


> Unfortunately no  It's been raining for the past 3 days and the pasture is a soggy mess:? With any luck though, I'm hoping sunny weather is on the way!


Okay  Good on you for waiting it out. I hope that with our advice in this thread you can figure it out!


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## Baylee (Apr 10, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Okay  Good on you for waiting it out. I hope that with our advice in this thread you can figure it out!



Yeah thanks! I will keep you posted once we can get working again :wink:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think some of the differences of opinion have to do with two markedly different activities, that are both called "lunging" , but are really two different things, IMO.

The traditional manner of lunging has the hrose quite some distance from the handler, responsive to verbal cues and is more likely to work in one direction for more time before turning. And turning around is done slowly and by the direct contact of the handle with the bridle, as they may detach and reattach the lunge line to support the new direction. So, it is advisable for the hrose to stop ON the circle and await the handler. The objective is more to get the hrose moving forward, listening to the verbal commands, to maybe loosen up and let off some steam, and with the use of side reins, to perhaps encourage the hrose to learn to soften at the poll and perpare him to carry himself better under a rider.. the lunger strives for a steady rythmic gait, and is not interested per se if the hrose is "asking" to stop or not. They are looking for a willing forward and enough steady forward gait for it to become stable.


The other type of "lunging" is more associated with Natural Horsemanship. This will have the hrose working much closer to the handler, working more on the horse's attentiveness to the handler, as evifdenced by its' willingness to change directiions when asked and be ready to stop and await further direction. The "nuetral" position, wherein the hrose is awaiting further instruction, is for it to be facing the handler. From there, the handler can either back horse up, draw it in, send it back out onto the circle right or left. The sensitive arrangement of these direections will tune up the horse's sensitivity to the handler.

Also, as the horse does walk around the handler, on a much shorter line, the handler may ask the horse to disengage it's hind fully, to loosen the pelvis and test the "brakes", or, may ask that the horse walk around with a good bend in its' body and clearly stepping under with the hind to maintain this bend.
So, less trotting or cantering for circles in repitition is done. Different kind of feel, different kind of outcome, maybe.

I dont want a horse to turn and come in to me when lunging. He can stop and turn toward me, or better yet, turn his head inward, but not come toward me until I invite for THAT.

A lot of what i do in lunging, and I am NO expert, is more toward the natural horsemanship way. Though, i will ask the horse to trot around and just look to see it move out and loosen up. but I will also work and getting the horse to feel of the lungleine, and if I aske him to look in, then I want to see him follow the line (represents the rein) inward, and maybe follow it all the way around to a stop. I certainly do not want to spend my time with a hrose trotting around endlessly, leaning on the line , stiff and counter bent, which is what I see a lot of in lunging.


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## Baylee (Apr 10, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Any updates?


 I worked!!!  We took her on a ' field trip' to the fairgrounds Sunday to work in the outdoor arena. I lunged her in the arena for a while and worked on what you had suggested and it worked very well!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

That's fabulous news! Well done OP


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