# Beginner driver, pictures :)



## Zab

I'm back! if any of you remember me 

Anyway.. now I've jumped to driving. I'm starting Sólon with grounddriving and the like.
He's 2 years old, you think it's a good age to start? Won't be pulling anything heavy of course, or go on very long tours. But he needs something to think about, I think he's bored from just biting and playing wth the two older horses.. he seems more content since we started at least, is quicker to come forward in the pasture and has more energy 

I don't know much about driving, dad has a north swedish draft, and sure I can drive him on the roads, and I've had some horse driving lessons in high school, but I can't say I'm very skilled at it  Fortunatly, I have a friend who used to compete in precision driving with her shetlands (also breeding shetlands and so), so she's here helping me 

I figured I'd show some pictures. If you have any advice or so, feel free to share them 


Solon in his new harness. It needs some fitting, and a few new holes to be punched, but I think it'll be good. I expect him to grow a bit more too 


The sulky/rockard/thing when I bought it.  It has gotten a new coat of paint, the wood is sanded down and fixed, and we've just finished the seat, I'll put it back on and take new pictures 








First time with those..sticks P) attatched. He has been pulling chains and ratteling/noisy stuff before this and we'll pull a tire or something too before the sulky-thingy. But what we really need is some more time just practising. I think it's good if he knows to walk on a straight line before we start seriously, for one...  And knows to slow down on the way home  He's really good at stopping and fairly good at standing still (just a bit restless on the way home) already, but taking it slow is difficult.  He's also really good when things go wrong, like if he accidenttally step with one leg outside the chain or stick, I can ground-drive him right and he doesn't panic. It's pretty comforting to know. The worst 'fight' we had was after this day; when he had stiood nicely and let me remove the sticks (ok, you may tell me what these things are called in english) and I was goig to lead him a few steps back and to the stall, he threw a fit with bucking and jumping and rearing and the like.. *lol* pretty boy  As if he had never been lead before. But irt's nothing bad, I just let him act it out and lead him back in once he realised it was a pretty boring thing to do, jumping around like a fool. He stood nicely and lose when I removed the harness. (it's btw one I borrowed from a friend. It's easier to attatch random things to it and it's been fitted to him, before he get any weight behind him we'll change to the one I bought). I suspect the whip scared him, he doesn't care at all about it when I walk behind him, I can touch him wih it and wave with it and he behaves well, but it's scary when I walk beside him. We practiced a bit on that later on and I'll kepp doing that untill he can walk nicely even if I'm holding the whip.
We'll practice backing up more when he has that butt-strap (name?) rather than just the tail-thingy.. and without those sticks on.








Just checking how he'll look when he can pull it..xD Add a black seat and you'll know how the sulky looks when it's done  I figured it wouldn't hurt to let him back in there a time or two. He's such a good boy


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## churumbeque

I would line driving him and use the drag with the breeching (butt thingy) and traces so he gets a feel for everything and the different pressures. I would not worry about backing aty this stage except when line driving. Responding to voice commands is important before moving on. Also I would be goting him used to the blinkers. It also looks like your saddle is up a bit far on his withers. Should be behind on his back.


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## Zab

Yeah, as I said, we'll be practicing much more before hitching the cart  And we'll start using my harness once my friend has helped fitting it for him. 
Saddle..is that the back-thingy with the rings on it? I don't think I can place it further back, it moves forward when tightened I believe..I could try... :/ I think it's behind the withers, like a riding saddle should be, but I'll have to check that IRL before I swear on it..

He's had the eyepatch bridle on but I'm not sure I want to use it. For one I must have a bit with it (he has a cavesson with a non-jointed nose iron now), and when he's at this age he'll get teeth issues, and also... I just don't see a point on a horse that's not trying to look at everything and get unfocused.. in my mind it must be better to just get him used to seeing everything behind him without minding it.. on another forum I got the explanation that they're used so the horse won't react from the whip before they should but I fail to see that as a good reason. :/


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## churumbeque

Saddle or pad is the part on the back with the girth. I had my 2 yr olds teeth floated and 6 loose teeth pulled by the dentist and it was a totally different horse.


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## Zab

what I mean with teeth issues is that the teeth are still growing and changing a lot at that age, using a good bitless option just seems so much easier


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## Mercedes

Get him in a blind bridle.


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## churumbeque

I use a rubber bit with no problems.


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## smrobs

Zab, I think Solon looks great. Boy, is he filling out nicely!! It seems like you are doing a nice job with him and I can't wait to see him all decked out in his harness and pulling the cart .


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## EllaEnchanted

Wow is he ever cute! I wanted to teach my percheron/thoroughbred to drive but A) I have no money for harness, cart, ect and B) No where around the place I board to practice driving except for on the higghway. So thats a big no ha ha.

I think training without blinkers is a good idea. Let him see what your doing and realize it wont hurt him. Then if you drive him with blinkers down the road and soemthings there that really would scare him, he will trust in you and not worry about it


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## jimmy

some horses when being driven especially walking,go into some sort of a daze ,something similar to daydreaming,so it helps if you speak to them every so often just to remind them that you are there,i always talk to them ,when i see them raising their heads and twitching their ears,as usually it means they have seen something they are not sure of


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## JustDressageIt

Wow, he's filled out! It looks like you're doing a great job with him. I really can't offer any helpful comments as I don't know the first thing about driving.


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## Zab

Thanks for all comments and advice


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## my2geldings

What a gorgeous little horse! dont remember seeing him before. He's a stunner. The cart is beautiful as well :shock: 

Can't wait to see pictures once he's started


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## smudger

Zab said:


> Yeah, as I said, we'll be practicing much more before hitching the cart  And we'll start using my harness once my friend has helped fitting it for him.
> Saddle..is that the back-thingy with the rings on it? I don't think I can place it further back, it moves forward when tightened I believe..I could try... :/ I think it's behind the withers, like a riding saddle should be, but I'll have to check that IRL before I swear on it..
> 
> He's had the eyepatch bridle on but I'm not sure I want to use it. For one I must have a bit with it (he has a cavesson with a non-jointed nose iron now), and when he's at this age he'll get teeth issues, and also... I just don't see a point on a horse that's not trying to look at everything and get unfocused.. in my mind it must be better to just get him used to seeing everything behind him without minding it.. on another forum I got the explanation that they're used so the horse won't react from the whip before they should but I fail to see that as a good reason. :/


 
i always thought the reason for using blinkers is so, the horse/pony does not see the cart folowing... if it can see the cart behind and steps forward, the cart will follow and it may feel like its being stalked/ chased causing it to spook and maybe even bolt!!! just something to be aware of :wink:


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## Anvil

smudger said:


> i always thought the reason for using blinkers is so, the horse/pony does not see the cart folowing... if it can see the cart behind and steps forward, the cart will follow and it may feel like its being stalked/ chased causing it to spook and maybe even bolt!!! just something to be aware of :wink:


 In my exp. driving with or without blinkers varys on your horse's tempermant. if you can train a horse to drive without blinkers the horse seems to trust and respect the driver a lot more.


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## jimmy

in my experience the blinders are worn as much for the driver as the horse,basically when driving [especially on roads]you don,t want your horse to see more then you,and if you have control over how much he sees,you are in a better position to control him shoul anything unexpected happen,i know you see adverts saying bombproof believe me there is no such thing,and if something scares a horse as long as he can see it he will run


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## Zab

smudger said:


> i always thought the reason for using blinkers is so, the horse/pony does not see the cart folowing... if it can see the cart behind and steps forward, the cart will follow and it may feel like its being stalked/ chased causing it to spook and maybe even bolt!!! just something to be aware of :wink:


Well..isn't that why we're training them for the task?  To get them used to and accepting?

....
In response to all: I still don't really want the blinders. A horse isn't more bombproof with them than without them, as long as it's trained the same way it's driven. My friend who's helping me with this doesn't think I need them either, and he's just not a very spooky or difficult horse as such. 

Thanks for all nice comments about him  For those who hasn't seen him or doeasn't recognize him, this is how he looked last time I posted in here, when I just bought him:









So he has changed a bit


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## xEquestrianx

That's so fun! I just recently learned to drive with a team of percherons and I keep working on it and I plan on showing a half-arab driving this summer. It's so fun to drive them!


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## whiskeynoo

good luck he seems to be taking to it nicely we usually use a tire and get the horse to drag that at first. as for the blinkers its entirely on the drivers preference, we use blinkers with our horses because they don't seem to mind and some of them (hob-knob and whiskey) tend to have a nosey bout without them so it would put them off balance a bit if they tried to turn to see something in the harness and rubber bits are good for younger driving horses.
i've seen images where there would be a saddle and a harness where the driver would actually ride the horse


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## Reiterin

I thought the blinders/blinkers are (mostly) so the horse doesn't spook at the big monster with round feet chasing them... But if your horse doesn't need them, then I don't see why you should have to use them.

My horse, however, is a lot calmer With them. 

Personal and animal's preference.

Looking good.


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## Zab

Figuring I should post and update 

I havn't done much with him since last posts untill a few days ago. Got him out, had him pull the shafts around the ''short'' trail (4 miles) and he behaved perfectly.  It was really noisy with the end of the shafts dragging on the dirt road, we met a car and people, had some small dogs ''attack'' us and in all met quite a lot weird things. Drove past a pasture with some mares too. He behaved perfectly all the time. I saw a tire and had him drag that a bit too, no problem.

Such a good boy!

Then yesterday I decided to let him drag a small log. It went good to start with; he pulled fine and so.. but.. one of the shafts slipped out from the harness, the pulling lines still attached to the log.. he got scared of course, the log broke free from the shaft that was still properly attached to him and all weight got to the other shaft and lines.. he ran around but I managed to hold him on a circle and after a few laps he stopped. He calmed down and stood nice and relaxed while I removed the shafts and such and checked him for any injuries. He was fine and I grounddrove him a bit more, then attached the shafts again (better this time, I'm so stupid for doing it wrong the first time) and he was alright. Not the least nervous, and wasn't even sweaty after the fit.
Since he didn't get away and learnt that panicking gets him free, but had to calm down and when hre stood niely the ''scary'' things went away, I think the experience wasn't too bad for his training. But I wouldn't try doing it again..


















Pulling it nicely. (yes, the harness isn't for any heavy pulling, but I figure he should feel it before attatching the carriage anyway)










Getting scared when everything went wrong...










And calming down 
I'm so lucky nothing worse happened. I don't have any photos on the ground driving I did afterwards since dad went inside to finish some things he was doing, when he saw we were ok.

Then today I had him pull the same log again, around the field, turning, stopping and gaiting. He did wonderfully, was really soft on the reins and very responsive and calm, ears perked forward (except when I said something and he listened). 

My friend's coming over on thursday, we'll use the sulky for the first time. Despite the accident yesterday, he seems fine and all, no damage done. But I want her expertise there the first times when I'm not walking, but sitting..
Unless I make the same stuid mistake of not putting the shafts properly strapped on the harness, I don't expect any problem...


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## smrobs

Wow, he looks so great and you are doing wonders with him. The fact that he calmed right down after the incident speaks volumes in the training he is receiving. It sounds like he really trusts you.


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## Reiterin

congrats. looking good. it's good that he calmed down pretty quickly after the problems.


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## Zab

I just wish I knew better how to get everything right, like dressage driving him or something..but I suppose it'll come with time.


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## Zab

Yay! Our first ride with the sulky went great!  Just perfect! 
Nu fuzzing at the mares, not getting scared of cars, or anything, stopped and started and gaited..

Had a friend with me who had an extra leadrope/line and could get off if needed


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## smrobs

YAY!!! He looks absolutely adorable hooked to the sulky. It looks like you have an amazing little driving horse there. I love that goofy little grin in that first pic. It's like "hehe, look what we're doing, hehe".


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## Phaeton

Safety first! Ground drive till you are comfortable and have somebody there with you. Harness looks a little big your breeching should sit 1/2 way between the tail and hock. I don't want to judge I just don't want anything to go wrong. I have been driving over 30 yrs and have seen wrecks. I'm saftey officer for our driving club and inspect all drivers and their rigs before letting them drive. There are rules number 1 Driver 1st one in and last one out. For help Carriage Association of America and the American Driving Society


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## Phaeton

Breechings hold back straps do not attach to the shaft loops they attach to the shafts


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## susanne

Pretty boy -- and obviously smart, too. Looks like you're doing right by him!

I'll ditto Phaeton's comments -- holdback straps need to go through the footman's loops and then wrap around the shafts. Breeching should be below the point of the buttock -- low enough that it won't slip up under his tail, yet high enough that it won't pull his legs underneath him when going down a hill.

As for the saddle sliding forward, I had to add a couple of holes to the back strap so that the crupper could help prevent that forward migration. (Our harness is just a bit large and my pony is short-backed, as yours appears to be.) And remember that the girth of a harness does not need to be as tight as with a riding saddle.


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## Reiterin

how exciting! =)


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## Zab

I'll put the breech-things higher up 
I have a friend (whit experience, competed etc) with me, she's the one taking the picture with me in the cart and she lead him first  We're safe with the grounddriving, only time he spooked was when the shaft slid out from the harness..and even that wasn't too bad - he calmed down and just stood.

I'm not sure what you mean with the breecheds and loops? They're attached to the front of the shafts since there's no place else they will attatch on the shafts.. I want them to help stopping the cart, not just slide along the shaft in a down hill or stop.. but they are attatched to the shafts, not the harness 

the saddle sits in place and well behind the shoulder blade. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## churumbeque

The breechings go into a loop on the underside of the shaft but it almost looks like they are missing and it doesn't look secured properly and am worried you are going to have another mishap like before. Any reason you are not using a bit? I use a very soft rubber bit.


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## Zab

It's secured through a loop in the front of the shaft, there is none at the back, but it can't slide out from there unless it breaks, and the shaft pulls it into use when he's going downhill. 
The mishap before was because I put the harness/saddle part wrong in the shafts and somehow forgot to put them through the loop in the front (same as the breeches go through) - which won't happen again 

I'll draw a picture..










The red is the shafts, the green is breeching and the blue is the harness/saddle. So both breeching and harness goes over/around the shaft and through that little loop on the shaft. If it had any such loop further back, I'd put the breeching through that, but now it doesn't 
The mishap before happened because I missed to put the blue part/harness through the loop.. dunno what I was thinking.. but now it can't slip out or anything 

I've put the breeches higher, but I might need to cut a bit in them to be able to get it just right, there's no space for more holes than I already made. Dunno why it's so big when everything else is pony sized..

I don't use a bit since he's 2 years old and lots of things are happening in his mouth, plus he's thaught and more safe with pressure on the nose, he understands it better. The cavesson I use isn't as cuddly and nice as it looks, it has a seepskin aroud it since it'll ''nag'' and rub on the hairs and skin on the nose otherwise (even without rein preassure it moves with him and catches the hair), but under that thin pece of sheepskin lies an iron bar that's just as sharp as any bit - if not a little sharper even since it's not rounded but flat - and as the same effect as a snaffle bit.  It's a riding cavesson much like the one they use to educate the horses in the spanish riding school before they use a bit.

I do plan on using a bit later on, but for now this is just as safe and I don't have to worry about any teeth issues if he acts funny one day. Plus it saves his mouth to when we're ready for ''finer communication''


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## churumbeque

It was hard to tell. Any other loop I have seen was about a foot back so it didn't interfere with anything else. I am going to try and post a picture of how to secure the breeaching strap as I cannot explain it. The end of the shaft should be in line with the shoulder also so either your shafts are too short or it is too far back as it looks like that shaft could just fall out.


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## Zab

The shafts are too long, we need to shorten them about a feet.. 
It can't fall out when tied properly, I promise  It's also bent outwards, you can't really see it in the picture. 
You see it here tho:








Bent out, and the loop makes it safe..








If you look close you can see that the breeching is pulled through the loop here, and see that the harness girth-thing is too.. (I put the breeching about 3 inches further up today, I'll have to make more holes and longer straps (by cutting the slice there) but then I'll put it further up. He's doing a good jb in the downhills anyway, but I'll fix it asap)

I would like another loop on the shafts further back for the breeches, but untill I find someone who can put one there safely, this will have to do. 

But this way of setting everything has been used by many for a long time, I've posted pics on swedish forums and nobody think it's strange. The sulky is professionally made, I've done some work to refresh it, but all details and construction is as it should. I do think it's a training sulky for harnessed racing (ponys or amall standardbreds) but they're usually used for this type of driving too.

I happen to know that a trainer borrowed it one time, and before that it was used for some pony a little smaller than Solon and with one of those cheep harnesses where the chest strap thing is directly connected to the saddle, no breeching or lines.. I had to add the swingle tree myself, but it had a loop for that at least  Just random info..

But that way of hitching the cart is safe as any, it's made to sit safe that far up and be secured loosely through the loop at the tip.


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## churumbeque

I would have a welder put a loop further back and then move the shafts forward. I do not think they are too long once you move it forward more even with the point of shoulder. Where the end is now would poke into the pony when he turns. I found some photo's on line but I couldn't paste them.


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## Zab

Another photo of just the cart (I'm a little proud of my work with it  )










I won't change the forward loop. It's designed to be like that, it's rounded and it doesn't bother him when he turns. If I put it further back the shafts will be way too wide at his sides, and in the way in the front, as they're bent inwards..
If I find someone who can fix it, I will make another loop further back for the breeches.

This is a common type of sulky/rockard around here. Thinking about it, I realized that the shafts on Dackes both wagons (an old scania carriage, used for small trips and ''sunday rides'', and a heavier working wagon) is the same.


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## Zab

If I do as you want it would look like this, and how could he turn with that? Or secure the shafts to the saddle? You see on the photo from behind in my previous post, how wide that would be.. and just bending them would make then unable to fit in the front, plus I can't do that in a safe way.

They're not supposed to be put like that, the design isn't such. I'd have to re-make the entire shaft, and I won't do that, wouldn't even if I had the money/contacts to be able to (whih I don't), since this works and is generally accepted. Solon's turning really good as it is, both sharp turns and when it's about moving to the side to let a car pass. And the shafts can't fall out.. This is how this sulky is made to fit and function 

How it would be if I just put them further forward.









Even if it's not how you're used to see it, it's a design and construction as good as any.

I appreciate your advice and concern though.


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## Phaeton

First this is just my opinion. The shafts are to high and need to be lowered so they are mid way on the horses body or so the shafts are up slightly. The hold back straps on the breeching need to attach to the shafts not the loop on the saddle.Your traces that connect to the cart should not stay on the cart. I really think you need someone there that knows something about driving. This can be a dangerous sport but if done correctly it's great. I just don't want something to happen. You have a good thing going you just need a little help I wish I was there to help it would be a lot easier.


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## churumbeque

Zab said:


> If I do as you want it would look like this, and how could he turn with that? Or secure the shafts to the saddle? You see on the photo from behind in my previous post, how wide that would be.. and just bending them would make then unable to fit in the front, plus I can't do that in a safe way.
> 
> They're not supposed to be put like that, the design isn't such. I'd have to re-make the entire shaft, and I won't do that, wouldn't even if I had the money/contacts to be able to (whih I don't), since this works and is generally accepted. Solon's turning really good as it is, both sharp turns and when it's about moving to the side to let a car pass. And the shafts can't fall out.. This is how this sulky is made to fit and function
> 
> How it would be if I just put them further forward.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even if it's not how you're used to see it, it's a design and construction as good as any.
> 
> I appreciate your advice and concern though.


This makes more sense to me moving the shafts further forward but you need a loop for the breeching further back, about a foot behind the saddle and they are looped but haven't had time to find a picture to show how to loop it so it is tighter and won't flap around


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## Zab

*Phaeton:* I HAVE an experienced person with me and helping me. She has competed (_''precision'' and ''brukskörning'' in swedish.. precision is pretty much the same word in english so you can probably guess, brukskörning is like.. the western riding ''trail'' but with a carriage.. stops, loading stuff on the carts, backing up and doing things that you might need to do if you used the horse for real work_), she's starting her horses to drive, she breeds shetlands etc. She's my age, but she has done this for ore than 10 years and she is aware of safety. She also knows the details that doesn't matter that much in safety but makes life easier (_at least that's how I feel about it. She usually gives good explanations on everything I ask about why and why not_)...but if you can give me a good reason to why somethings wrong, I could ask her and perhaps change it. I know I'm not very good at these things, that's why I have her help  and that's why I question the things you say; I won't learn and can't think for myself if I just do whatever someone tells me without knowing why.

Can you say why it's bad/dangerous to leave the traces/lines on the cart? It's how my friend taught me, since it's easier to unstrap them at the breastcollar than from the swingle tree, and less straps to keep an eye on when leading him between the barn and the cart. The cart is stored indoors, the straps isn't out in the rain or anything.

The breeches ARE connected to the shaft. I can't see why they're less effective when connected at the front of the shaft compared to a feet back? The shaft doesn't move or flex in any way so that should matter, right? There is no loop to attach them to further back. If there were or if I could put one there, I would, but I don't see how it changes function?
It goes through the loop on the saddle as well, since they use the same shaft-loop, but they're still connected directly to the shaft.

I could punch extra holes and put the shafts lower, but are you sure they should be lower? When holding it with a person sitting, that's the height it feels the lightest without risking to tip over backwards (I'll probably have to re-check that as soon as they're shortened). And if it's lower, it'll be below the thicker/broader part of the saddle..I imagine it'd be more uncomfortable for him.. but I might be wrong. Maybe that doesn't matter?

*churumbeque:*
But can't you see how far away from his sides they'd be? They'd be almost 10 inches out from his sides where they'd attach to the harness! And the front would be in the way of his shoulders moving and turning!

I know where that loop you want should be but 1. I cannot put one there since I have no means to do so, and 2. What's so wrong with having it further forward? The shafts won't pull less in it because it's at the tip of them.. I've seen the breeches work in slight downhills. The preassure comes where it should and the saddle doesn't move (since it's attached as it's supposed to with this cart at least, and not very tight; the shafts move forward a bit without pulling the saddle/girth, and the breeches take the preassure to his butt).

These shafts are designed to be attatched at the tip. They're bent like they are to avoid any ucomfortable preassure when the horse moves, to leave the shoulders and everything else on the horse, free and to stay where they are. I'm sorry if it's a model you don't like, but this is how it's supposed to be. And this is how it's most functional. I do miss that breeching loop, but there isn't anything I can do about it at the moment, and it works to put it in the front..

(As a sidenote, I've lost my job a few months ago and go on sickpay, and I've just spent over 1000 usd on vet bills, vaccine, removing wolf teeth, cats etc, stuff my insurance won't cover, plus my car needs fixing.. so I really can't spend any money on fixing something that's not even necessary. Like having a pro fix the shafts shape or even put the extra loop there, when it's fully functional and safe as it is.. :/ )


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## Phaeton

You have help thats great. The traces on the ground not good at all. Look on the web there are plenty of sites out there that can help. There is a proper order to hitch and the harness has to fit correctly. Most accidents are operator error or equipment error.Just because your helper has being doing it for ten years does not make it right. I just don't want anything to happen to you are your horse! Your EZ entry cart looks nice with the wood work take good care of it.


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## Phaeton

BRIDLE

1. Blinders centered to the middle of the eyes. 
2. Noseband should be able to fit 1 finger to through.
3. Throat latch should fit 2 fingers through. If using a halter with bridle run throat latch 
 through halter to keep bridle on.
4. Bit fitting 1 wrinkle depending on bit and horse.
5. Side check loose enough not to hold the horse head up but not so loose to allow horse
 to put head down below neck. Side check stops a horse from grazing if their head goes
 down breast collar or neck collar can slide over the neck.

COLLAR 
Breast collar should not put pressure on windpipe traces should sit even with the shafts.
Neck collar should be able to fit 1 hand at the bottom of the collar.

SADDLE

Cinch should be able to stick 1 finger through
Shaft loops sit centered on body of horse or so the shafts are level or up slightly.
Point of shafts should be back slightly horses chest
Turn back should have enough ply to pick up 4 inch’s without any pressure.

BREECHING
Crupper should fit with without binding.
Breeching strap should sit level half way between hock and top of tail.
When traces are tight should allow about eight inch’s between strap and butt.
Straps over the hip should be at highest point.
Hold back straps should wrap around shafts and back through themselves. Traces should between holdback straps but be able to move freely. 

LINES

Lines should be run through terrets and buckled at the end if there is a buckle.
Do not recommend quick snaps at the bit. These can get hooked on other object prefer buckles.


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## Phaeton

Horse can step on traces while on the ground and you don't let leather lie on the ground


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## Phaeton

this is all just my opinion


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## Reiterin

Your cart does seem a little strange, but I believe you have it set up the way it was meant to be set up.

I think with the way the shafts bend/curve it would look even more wrong to have the tie-back loop back father. it looks like there would be too much of an angle and ... just seems strange to me.







http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e12/sesmet/other horses/2010-04-29_165405.jpg

My cart also has the tie back loop very far forward. and it has not been a problem.

some carts are meant to have the shafts end where yours does (not even with the shoulder) like marathon carts for example.

I have not been driving as long as others here... but I think you are doing right by the design of YOUR cart.


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## Zab

The straps are not on the ground when hitching him, they're in the cart (just like the harness is on the horse and not hanging over the cart   Removing them from the swingle tree rather than the harness mens more risks, as I see it; I'll have to move behind the horse, it takes longer time and has a greater risk of a ''jerk'' in them than just unbuckeling the front, and that could scare him a bad day I guess. But when we hitch the cart, they're not on the ground (_actually my friend did fuzz on me about that when I had put them like that the first day, I figured it was ok as long as they lied outside the shafts, but she let me know I was wrong_)

I don't understand all of the words and stuff you wrote, butafter what I understand, and after fixing the height of the breeches, I think most of itis right. Except the bridle part of course since I use an unjointed iron cavesson rather than a bit, and doesn't want blinders (_which I found out isn't accepted in ''brukskörning'' either way and if I ever want to compete, it would be in that)_

It's the shaft parts I don't quite understand how you mean, and that has to depend on the type of cart and shafts too?
I've looked at more photos and searched, and even found fancy competition marathon carts as well as lots of regular carts, with the shaft ends where I have mine and without any other option to put them further forward.. One shaft even ended in a loop.. :/
And the balance of the cart and such too, but I'll ask her to check that.. but the size and type of cart compared to the size and type of horse has to make for some differense in the angle of the shaft?

What's ''turn backs''?

I've learnt to hitch him in this order; shafts (_since they make for keeping the cart in the right place_), traces/lines (_since they're the ones to pull it with, and if he runs with them secured and shafts on the ground it just won't be nice_) and breeches (_since they're useless most of the time and only goes into work in hills or when backing etc_) and to un-hitch the other way around, leaving the shafts for last.. that sounds right to you?

I am searching the net as well, and posting in forums like this one and the swedish one  I posted there to hear what they all had to say about the length and placement of the shafts, and the height.. but they're all asleep at 2 am so I'll have to wait untill tomorrow x)
It's the looking around that has taught me why I need a harness wih a separate cheststrap, and breeching (most harnesses in the riding equipment stores here is sold with the breast strap attached directly to the saddle, no lines, a weak saddle and no breeching.. and claims to have all you need to start driving.. I'm sure Emma would have enlightened me if I hadn't found the info on it, she hates those harnesses)

Thanks for all replies


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## Zab

Reiterin said:


> Your cart does seem a little strange, but I believe you have it set up the way it was meant to be set up.
> 
> I think with the way the shafts bend/curve it would look even more wrong to have the tie-back loop back father. it looks like there would be too much of an angle and ... just seems strange to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My cart also has the tie back loop very far forward. and it has not been a problem.
> 
> some carts are meant to have the shafts end where yours does (not even with the shoulder) like marathon carts for example.
> 
> I have not been driving as long as others here... but I think you are doing right by the design of YOUR cart.


Thanks 
I've asked about this in the swedish forums (perhaps they/we are just more used to this setup?) to make sure, there are some really nitpicking people there so they'll speak up for sure if they see anything they find incorrect.. on the other hand, they'll tell me I need a new cart anyway since this one isn't fancy enough.. I watched them come down on someone who wanted to buy a 600usd rockard/sulky just for driving the dirtroads once a week, but he definetly needed a 2500usd competition sulky because everything else was cruelty for the horse.. I personally couldn't even see the differense between them even if I'm sure there must be some that an advanced driver would feel. What they said about carts like mine isn't worth mentioning  Anyway..I'm rambling..
But I've seen a lot of them have the shafts like mine..


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## churumbeque

I just had a weekend of lessons and my breeching was also too low. My instructor also reccomended leaving the traces attached to the cart and unhooking them like you did. The pictures were from today. This is about our 6th time hitched.


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## Zab

Looks really good!  How old is he?

I've found a new harness, a working harness..uhm.. it's the kind used for drafts to pull logs and the like, you know? I'm getting some help on how to adjust it, and to adjust the saddle/harness to work with loose shafts if/when I need them. I had the idea to let Solon pull smaller logs and things, just to get him used to that too. But not too heavy of course, don't want him to get injured or anything since he's so young, so nothing that I can't pull myself. But it'd be nice to be able to use him for real work in the future  My dad heats the house with wood and cuts it himself, so Solon could be useful for that. Maybe next year 

I'll still use the breastcollar with the sulky.. it's better for that type of work anyway  And I'll have to put another strap further back on his breeching to keep it up. It's too big, really, but I don't want (or afford) to change it since I think he'll grow into it. He's already grown 4 inches since I started grounddriving..:3


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## churumbeque

She is 3 yrs old.


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## churumbeque

Zab said:


> Looks really good!  How old is he?
> 
> 
> And I'll have to put another strap further back on his breeching to keep it up. It's too big, really, but I don't want (or afford) to change it since I think he'll grow into it. He's already grown 4 inches since I started grounddriving..:3


It looks like you have room in your hip strap to punch some holes to move the breeching up


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## Reiterin

beatuiful churum. congrats on the progress.


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## Zab

churumbeque said:


> It looks like you have room in your hip strap to punch some holes to move the breeching up


I already done that after the first photos of him in the cart (first and only) but it's not high enough yet since the strap holding it up is too far forward. So I need a second strap further back that will keep the breeches from hanging down.


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## churumbeque

Zab said:


> I already done that after the first photos of him in the cart (first and only) but it's not high enough yet since the strap holding it up is too far forward. So I need a second strap further back that will keep the breeches from hanging down.


I just looked at your photo's again. I would let the back strap out some and punch more holes in your crupper strap and tighten that up to get the hip strap further back.


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## Phaeton

jimmy said:


> in my experience the blinders are worn as much for the driver as the horse,basically when driving [especially on roads]you don,t want your horse to see more then you,and if you have control over how much he sees,you are in a better position to control him shoul anything unexpected happen,i know you see adverts saying bombproof believe me there is no such thing,and if something scares a horse as long as he can see it he will run


 
I agree you want the horse looking forward. Not looking back seeing the carriage and trying to get away from it.


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## Phaeton

*Whip*



Zab said:


> Yeah, as I said, we'll be practicing much more before hitching the cart  And we'll start using my harness once my friend has helped fitting it for him.
> Saddle..is that the back-thingy with the rings on it? I don't think I can place it further back, it moves forward when tightened I believe..I could try... :/ I think it's behind the withers, like a riding saddle should be, but I'll have to check that IRL before I swear on it..
> 
> He's had the eyepatch bridle on but I'm not sure I want to use it. For one I must have a bit with it (he has a cavesson with a non-jointed nose iron now), and when he's at this age he'll get teeth issues, and also... I just don't see a point on a horse that's not trying to look at everything and get unfocused.. in my mind it must be better to just get him used to seeing everything behind him without minding it.. on another forum I got the explanation that they're used so the horse won't react from the whip before they should but I fail to see that as a good reason. :/


 
The whip is used for correction and affection. If he rears up you strike his under belly if he shys from one side you move him over with it. If he starts backing up you put it accross his butt to get him moving forward. If he is standing nice you can tell he is being good and rub him with it. The whip is a tool that should be carried does not have to be used but should always be there if you need it.


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## Zab

Phaeton, I think you misunderstood that post. It was questioning the use of blinders, not the use of the whip. 
Others told me I must have blinders since he shouldn't react too early when I move the whip.

And I've found out that in the only driving contest I ever might be interested in, blinders arn't even allowed.. so I think I did a better choice not using them. He's getting used to seeing everything without getting scared.  And he's generally not a horse that needs them much. I do see the point on the horse not seeing more than the driver, but at the same time I want the horse able to see the cart and see whay's happening and prepare for it. Some are more nervous when things suddenly come into view where they were hidden by blinders before, some are happy not seeing, and yet some,like Solon, doesn't really care.
_____

He's been out more, still doesn't react on cars, dogs or bunnys running out before him. 
I had him pull a few (rather light) logs when I wanted to make a jumping course and he had to really work on his patiense  Standing quietly for several minutes while I'm messing with stuff behind him wasn't the most fun he had ever had, but he did it fairly well anyway, especially concidering his age and experience.

He also got the lines twisted and around his feet a few times, but we've worked on stuff touching and wrapping his legs - he didn't care the least but followed my reins to step right again. (wasn't using any shafts for the ''logging'' since it's not really necessary at that type of work. Did use traces/lines that would be very easily removed, and a stronger harness made for that type of work).


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## Ilovemyarab

Oh, he is so cute! I love his coloring! I think he'll look great in a cart.


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