# Clinton Anderson and the Mustang Boomerang



## Crazy4horses2 (Jul 12, 2017)

Ok I'm not trying to offend any Clinton Anderson followers I just want to make this EXTREMLY clear...

I was looking into other methods on ground training to see if there was anything else I could add to what I already knew and a friend of mine mentioned getting the colt starting DVD's from Clinton Anderson. I never was a follower of his methods because he seemed too money hungry to me to be an effective trainer that was until I ran into some videos of his on youtube where he's working with a mare and she had almost the same attitude my mare has.

Other then the videos with that mare in it I knew nothing more about CA's training I looked at the prices for his halter and lead just out of curiousity and it about made me faint! But when my friend mentioned getting the colt starting DVD's I flat out told her I wasn't going to spend most of my rent money on DVD's just to get some extra knowledge. 

So my husband being the smart whip he is looked for the DVD's on a movie downloading site and happened to find them I started watching the first video and was thinking I could possibly use some of the stuff he's doing until he started jumping onto the mustangs bare back apparently on the very first day of the horse being there... That to me screamed fraud. 

I know BLM mustangs can be gentled quite quickly if done correctly but in the time it took him to get on the horses and sliding off their rump without an issue seriously?? 

I don't know if I'm the only one that thinks this but I honestly believe that video would be putting so many people in danger then doing any good. Some of his ground work I would consider using but that's as far as I would go with anything of his work. 

Anyone else think this??


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Nope. I've trained a mustang and I've followed a lot of mustang trainers. I'd say at least 25% of them can sit and slide all over their backs on the first day or so. Not every mustang is like this, but the right horse and the right handler can be a perfect match and they can do a lot from the start.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My half mustang/half Arabian was trained by a guy (not a professional) who followed Clinton Anderson. I didn't ask him how long it took him to get on the horse's back, but I like my horse. 

I'm not a Clinton Anderson fan, but I've heard a lot of people say he helped them. The guy who trained my horse turned to Clinton Anderson because CA was gentler than the local trainers he knew. I don't own his DVDs, but I'm not going to knock him. No one has to buy his stuff or watch his DVDs.

I bought a used Clinton Anderson saddle made by Martin. Good saddle. Wish it fit my horse. I also own a set of Parelli reins. They were on sale and they are good quality for the sale price. Don't follow Parelli, but I have no complaint about the reins. I'll buy more if I see them on sale...


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## Crazy4horses2 (Jul 12, 2017)

I only got his colt starting vid's to expand training. I use a few trainers methods except Parelli never could get interested into their methods, and from what @GMA100 said about mustangs I now know that not all mustangs are like the ones we have around where I live, so my mistake. I wasn't trying to hate on him that's why I said what I did at the very top of the post I've just never seen a trainer bold enough to jump onto a mustangs back so shortly after working with them. I guess that's why it came across to me as it was edited or the horse had already been handled.


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

Joe Williams isn't a public trainer, but he competes in a lot of EMMs and I've seen him have a horse in cross ties on day 4 sitting on it's back. Another he was sitting on several hours after he got it to his place. 
You can look at Elisa Wallace also, she has some videos of training mustangs that are really cool! 

Now, I've also seen mustangs that couldn't be touched for several weeks or even months, so there are the truly "wild" ones. The way I see it is that these horses just don't know people and so they're wild. Get one to know and trust you and they're as tame as you can get! 

Someone told me "Gain a mustangs respect and trust and you'll do anything with it." Boy, isn't that true! Mine was a baby when I got him, so I went slow, but this was about 7 months after I got him: 







936906


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## Crazy4horses2 (Jul 12, 2017)

I learned to ride on a BLM mustang boy was he the mellowest most wonderful horse anyone could ever have I wanted to get one from a TIP trainer but the rules and regs even for a TIP trained mustang are still crazy but understandable but now I have my Dakota and I love her just as much. Thank you for the tips on the other trainers I'll take a look into them. I've been using mostly David Archers training as my mare seems to respond best to his methods.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

If you feel its wrong, don't do it. There are bits and pieces you can take from his training and apply it to yourself, if you like a certain technique. But don't put yourself on the back of an unbroken horse on the first day if that sounds wrong to you. I know it sounds wrong to me, and it goes against the favored "Take your time" approach when it comes to breaking in horses.

If a man puts an unhandled horse in the arena and breaks it in all in one day, I walk away. Some people think this makes the trainer super efficient, but all I see is someone pushing the trust of a horse just to prove a point. Can I get on an unhandled horse in one day? Yes. Do I do it? No.

Yes, in my opinion, these "One Day Train" NH people are putting unknowledgeable people at risk and I have a lot against NH trainers who push this agenda just to prove that their technique works. Can you take bits and pieces of these videos and apply them successfully to your own horse? Absolutely. But these are cookie cutter trainers who insist all horses can be trained if you purchase their DVD collection. Quite a gimmick, don't you think!

That being said, I've heard more good things about Anderson than the rest who market this stuff. I used to get Parelli Fail horses in for training all the time. I will never touch a carrot stick to save my life now.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Don't they only have a few days to get on horses when they do some of those challenges? I don't like the challenge type things because of how quickly they soar through the basic training. 


I actually do like the CA methods. I had the membership for a while, it's $19 per month and you view any video you want as part of your membership. I found it very useful when I was having issues with Riley and then when baby horse was younger. Now, I'm not a koolaide drinker. I am someone that struggles with the groundwork. I'm not a good dancer and so I don't do it well. I have really found John Lyons, Josh Lyons, Clinton Anderson, and believe it or not.. Parelli useful depending on my situation. They are all telling the same story for the most part - they just have different ways to deliver it....


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## Crazy4horses2 (Jul 12, 2017)

yeah they have 3 days sometimes it's a week to completely train a mustang straight from the auction then they have to go through some kind of obstacle course to show how well it's trained. I like Clinton andersons methods just not all of them. 

Some people have to pick out what they like from certain trainers instead of following just one certain trainer just so get the horse they are training can do what they are trying to train them. I always start with one method at a time if the horse doesn't respond to that particular method then I will try another trainers method to see if that works and continue on until I find one, in this case I was just looking for extra ground work to do with my horse CA pretty much does everything I already have done with her except that he goes a little further with other things like desensitizing in motion or sidestepping.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

If I recall correctly, that is called the "Jacobs Method" and it is for horses that are showing complete respect on the ground and are ready for that. That specific use case is about getting the horse further desensitized to your weight and being touched and being okay with that. 

None of Clinton Anderson's "Method" is about doing anything dangerous or stupid. I think if you put it in the complete context, meaning following the steps exactly as he teaches them and only when both you and the horse are ready for the next step, then it is fine. This isn't stuff that you can jump into the middle of, you are supposed to perfect step 1, then step 2, and so on all the way through the program.

Look at it from his perspective. He has absolutely nothing to gain from telling you to do something stupid that could get you hurt. One, he would be sued into oblivion. Two, his reputation would be ruined and he'd have to do something else. 

What Clinton Anderson actually teaches is that your safety is at all times the top priority in any situation involving horses. Half of what he repeats over and over is about your safety. "Personal hola-hoop space", "two eyes is better than two heels", etc. His bread and butter is turning reactive horses people are scared of into very broke ones. 

I think it is perfectly fine to simply not do this if you aren't comfortable. I bet if you called them and asked (they have a support phone number) they would tell you the same thing. 

I don't mind people criticizing Clinton Anderson for the record. I've watched a ton of his material and know that the key is that it is a program, and that he talks about safety around horses as much or more than any other topic.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

if a horse reacts to a saddle, then either the horse was not introduced to a saddle correctly, or that saddle does not fit.
It is a fact, that you can't deny, that a well fitted saddle is easier on a horse's back then bareback, esp riding an extended period of time.
A horse was never designed to bare weight directly over his spine, in a small concentrated area. A well fitted saddle, has that bridging over the spine, plus allows you to distribute some weight into the stirrups, allows for a more independent seat, keeping legs off of the horse, unless you intend to use them
There is a reason humans have well fitted back packs to carry weigh over distance, and why horses have saddles, to help distribute that weight
While it is okay to ride a horse bareback, for short periods, the idea of just riding bareback, as being 'better, is completely flawed


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> Don't they only have a few days to get on horses when they do some of those challenges? I don't like the challenge type things because of how quickly they soar through the basic training.
> 
> 
> I actually do like the CA methods. I had the membership for a while, it's $19 per month and you view any video you want as part of your membership. I found it very useful when I was having issues with Riley and then when baby horse was younger. Now, I'm not a koolaide drinker. I am someone that struggles with the groundwork. I'm not a good dancer and so I don't do it well. I have really found John Lyons, Josh Lyons, Clinton Anderson, and believe it or not.. Parelli useful depending on my situation. They are all telling the same story for the most part - they just have different ways to deliver it....


Agree that you take from each trainer as to what works
Any horse person, has to realize that mustang/colt starting chellenges are entertainment, showing what can be done, but even those trainers taking part in those competitions, bend over backwards at times, explaining that is NOT how they start colts at home,far as speed, time.
So to watch some colt starting or mustang competition, and then conclude that is the trainer's usual program, is completely flawed
I have never followed any of the NH trainers, really, just read some of their stuff, and most of my training is founded on self learning, and taking clinics from trainers that have proven themselves in any particular discipline that I was involved with.
You don't really learn to train horses by any ABC type DVD program, be that of Parelli, CA, Stacy Westfall, etc, etc
You do learn, through working with horses, as to which of these NH grues have the best program, far as those new to horses, the audience they attract, as no one that is a serious reiner, western pl , etc competitor is going to follow any of their programs, as they will work with those in the horse industry, proven in those disciplines
Still, CA in my books has way more down to earth practical training, that is intended to keep the rider safe, then most of those others in his field, that make their living mainly teaching average horse people to train horses, versus actually training horses.


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## koda2004 (Sep 2, 2017)

Smilie. I am not saying that it is always better for the horse to ride bareback but, my horse was was more relaxed without a saddle and it is a very good way to get them comfortable with you without the stress of a saddle at the start. Her saddle did not fit perfect but I know that is not the main reason because I tried three different saddles all of different sizes, shapes, and brands. The reason she bucked was because after her first few rides we spooked her on accident and after that, because I was so nervous, even the wind would set her off. I did not know how to start horses correctly at the time I introduced her to the saddle and to riding, the Clinton Anderson method helped me start over with her. I now use one of the same saddles she bucked with before and is completely fine. She was not in any pain just mentally worried and stressed out.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Crazy4horses2 said:


> he started jumping onto the mustangs bare back apparently on the very first day of the horse being there... That to me screamed fraud.


That's called the Jeffries method (very close, JGNmoose), also known as the human curry comb. The idea is to accustom the horse to being touched all over so it won't panic if something goes wrong on one of the first rides. It most definitely is not something that Clinton Anderson recommends you do on the first day -- there is a ton of groundwork that has to be accomplished first.

Many clinicians compete in Road to the Horse and are riding a wild colt less than 24 hours after they get assigned to it. That's very good for building a reputation. It's not how they train horses outside of competition. And it sure isn't how they recommend their followers train a horse.

My niece has worked with five BLM mustangs. The first one committed suicide by running into a fence and bouncing back so hard it flipped over backwards and smacked its head on the frozen ground. The second is her trail horse for Montana Backcountry Horsemen rides. The third she trained for the Complete Mustang Makeover competition and sobbed on her way home after it was adopted by a nice family. The last two were part of the TIP program and have been adopted out. Believe, me, she didn't jump on any of them the first day. She couldn't even get near them for many days.

In my very limited experience, I would say mustangs tend to be completely nuts at first but become unusually mellow after they are gentled. Her giant trail horse is as calm and courageous as a horse can be.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

I think CA is a skilled horseman and a skilled business man. If you listen to him, think, "What's in it for the horse?" and "What's in it for CA?"

Where we differ is in his being far too Type A with his horses. I understand why that is: He trains working horses and competition horses, I have no such concerns. When he tells a horse to jump, he wants the answer to be, "How high, and when can I come down?" (his words), whereas I'm okay with negotiating with my horse. So I'd use his methods to an extend, but not to his extend.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Where we differ is in his being far too Type A with his horses. I understand why that is: He trains working horses and competition horses, I have no such concerns.


I agree. CA trained hundreds of horses in his early days, when time was money, and he admits that he does not like to waste any time. I have watched Mark Rashid use the same techniques but apply them much more gently and patiently. I prefer to use a lead rope with a loop on the end rather than a steel snap. If it takes me a few more minutes to enforce a backup signal without smacking the horse in the chin with a hunk of metal, so be it. I still think CA's method is the easiest and most effective for most people to follow.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I keep trying to have an open mind about CA, and go back to watching a few of his free youtube videos, and finding his abrasive mannerisms, both with humans and horses, utterly unpalatable. He has very little 'feel', and so he presents very little 'feel' to the horse. Or , rather, he doesn't give them the soft feel that they are capable of following, but rather leaps quickly into a 'driving' approach, rather than a 'leading/inviting' approach. 
the difference between someone who truly follows the ideals taught by the Dorrance brothers, and Ray Hunt . . . . and how CA interprets them is gapingly wide.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Not to be redundant, I will leave my response to this thread in the 'Recent CA clinic thread, as I think it has application in both threads concerning CA


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Seems to me there is a difference between how a professional NEEDS to train, and how a horse owner can afford to train. If I ask a pro to train my horse, I don't expect him or her to take the sort of time I would take.

Another facet is what the horses will be expected to do. On a number of threads, I've seen people say, "I expect my horse to canter without question or further input until I say otherwise." That might be what they need, and it certainly is what they want. My approach is based on trail riding in an area that is part of the alluvial fan of a desert mountain, riddled with rocks and gullies that will trash a horse's hooves in short order. So I am happy with a horse suggesting a slow down, or to move off trail to where it is easier on his feet, etc. I often have inexperienced riders on the other horse, so I like it when Bandit slows down without my asking because he senses the other horse and rider are falling too far behind.

In Bandit's racing days, slowing to wait for another horse would be a near mortal sin. He now seems to understand it is what I want. As an owner, I am free to train him to behave as I wish. But a pro would need to train according to the expectations of his/her clients.

I don't follow CA's method, but I'm really glad I'm not in his shoes. I like horses more than I like a lot of horse owners. And I suspect a lot of horse owners have no desire to practice the approach the Dorrance brothers and Ray Hunt seemed to have taught. A lot of us talk about working at the horse's pace, but I know I've OFTEN fallen into the "_I want results NOW!_" trap. And I'm a pretty wimpy rider.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

In the opening of the Videos I have watched of CA, he starts with the introduction that 'horses are easy, and it is the people that can be difficult
While I declined to train outside hroses, even when asked, wishing to keep my non pro status, I admit there was another reason.
I really don't like teaching people how to ride their horses. I even took the Canadian Equestrian coaching program, and then thought, 'wait a minute, do I really want to work with people versus my own horses'?

Kuddos to those that do!

Since my son did start outside hroses, I also saw the other side of the coin.Most of the time, he was asked to just put a month on a colt.
The horsemen were happy when that colt had a good start at 30 days, rode in the open, at all gaits, did basic maneuvers, like side pass, turn on haunches turn on forehand, and had the beginning of some 'face'

Know how we could tell the inexperienced hrose person, before he even got on that colt after 30 day?. First question some of them asked, when they brought their horse, 'will he be neck reining in 30 days?"

Sure, you could just shove good training principles under the table, and get that horse turning off that neck rein in 30 days, but that would be a huge compromise of what you know is right.

There are always two sides of a story. CA works with a lot of horses that owners have allowed to become spoiled, and at formats where that audience wants to see results.
Yes, Trainers are often forced to get results, as that owner, wring those monthly cheques , wants to see them , not next year, but month to month.


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## Crazy4horses2 (Jul 12, 2017)

I got caught in that exact trap. I felt pressured to get at least one ride on my horse this year, because the previous owners continually asked me if I had ridden her even though they were never able to ride her themselves. The only reason I really felt pressured was because they gifted her to me only if she showed improvement.

I stupidly tried to ride her on the second time I had saddled her, she had been saddled before by her previous owners just 5 years ago. I went through the routine she did fantastic not spooking or running away I was leaning over the saddle patting the other side and she stood like a champ. 

I go to put my leg over and she started bucking but it was an effortless buck. I land behind the saddle still bucking effortlessly. She stopped I try to pull myself into the saddle trying my best to keep my lower legs from touching her. I almost get into the saddle and out of no where she threw her head up like someone flung their hands in her face and her neck hit my face, and I was not in any kind of balance position.

She started effortlessly bucking again and I kind of just rolled off and landed on my rump. As soon as I was off she stopped, turned, and faced me not the person holding the lead which I thought was odd. 

At that moment I felt like a moron because she needed more ground work but being pressured to ride her from the previous owners I got stupid. so next spring I'm going to pretty much have to start all over with her because I wasn't able to get back out to work with her due to weather.

My only guess is they seen pictures and videos of previous horses I've trained and thought I could train her in a very short time most of the pictures and videos are beginning middle and finish over at least a 3 month time.


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