# 5 year old 17h thoroughbred acting up. Help?



## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

My mare used to exactly like that (only in her case, she had been out of work for over 5 years) and while she's still not perfect, she's much better. In her case, I believe it was a saddle fit issue. It turns out that the saddle I was using was pinching her shoulders and basically causing her pain with each step. I ended up just switching to a western saddle and while she still walks off when I mount and has a hard time stopping calmly right after mounting, she never rears/bucks/what have you anymore. It did take a few sessions in the western saddle before her behavior really started to change but it happened. 

I would definitely get his saddle fit checked out if I were you. =) It could be (if you're using the same saddle you tried him in) that he's grown/filled out because I believe around 5 is that major filling out stage, right? And now the saddle doesn't fit at all where it used to.

Good luck! And, welcome to the forum! =)


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## Mlz23 (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks SO much. It could be the saddle fit. There's alot of possible things that could be causing it. Im definately gonna check that out.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

The rearing, if it was a one off let it pass but be aware. Next time he does it, run him full pelt backwards then backwards some more. Teach the brute that rearing is **** uncomfortable. If he gets away with it he may begin to strike and that is extremely dangerous!

As for the problems under saddle. He's a young tb with a new owner/riding. he is going to test the boundaries, that's just what they do. 
Keep him forward and thinking. Lots of circles, transitions, changes of rein, serpentines, leg yield etc. etc. Don't go more than a few strides without changing something about how he is going. You need to keep him thinking so that he's more focussed on the next thing you're going to ask than how to get out of the work.

When he bucks, really get up him, force him to go forward and really drive him up to the bridle. If he is the type of horse that you can feel a buck coming on, pull his head around and spin him on a small circle, then ride out again. 

The crow hopping is a matter of not having him forward, they can't do it if they are travelling so when he goes to start crow hopping, get up him and get him choofing along so that he cant get the momentum to crow hop. 

I don't take rearers. Not into that type of dirt. He can't rear if he's going forward, so keep him active. If he stops and jacks trying to go up, again, spin him and kick him out. It's far better to avoid the rear than get up into a vertical rear where he can flip over and badly injure you. 
Horses that get into the habit of rearing, I've heard that cracking an egg over their head at the height of the rear will make them think they've cracked their skull and they won't try it again. I've never had to go to that extreme to 'fix' a rearer, but a friend did so on her ottb and he has never reared since.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

no advice here (thought you've gotten some good stuff), I just wanted to comment that anyone who can carry an egg, wait for a rear, and then have the calm presence of mind to break it over their head at the height of a rear is my personal hero. =p


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

haha tealamutt... totally agree with you!!! My mate is a track rider, hackie, dressage rider AND showjumping. She has outstanding balance and seeing her ride is just amazing. The horse she used the egg on was a chronic rearer, basically as soon as you get on he'd go up, so she didn't need to wait long for him to have a go.


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

Probably just growing pains and especially at that age. He may be protesting about carrying some extra weight, so maybe get a nice sheep skin numnah for him and maybe he will feel better. Walk him round for 10-15 mins if you feel like he has stiff legs.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

At 17hh being a 5 year old tb I would HIGHLY doubt he has growing pains. He is testing the boundaries being a young horse. How long ago was he broken in? Unless he is a breaker again, I highly doubt he is concerned about having a rider on his back.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Oh and seeing as he cracks it within the first 5 minutes of your ride, I would say he is cold backed. Sorry i didn't read closely enough the first time. Do you lunge him before you get on? 
It is best with cold backed horses to warm them up a little on the lunge 5 mins each way to get their back moving before you get on. Otherwise, hop on but walk him on a long rein (with contact) for at least 10minutes at a nice marching active pace and do a little leg yield here and there to get him working that back. 
A cold backed horse will soften the back and be willing to carry you once they've warmed their muscles up.


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## Mlz23 (Feb 18, 2010)

Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. I guess I have to really get after him with this crap. :roll:


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

Mlz23 said:


> Thank you everyone for the tips and advice. I guess I have to really get after him with this crap. :roll:



Yes, most absolutely you do! It is not only your safety at risk here, but any and all future riders/owners of this horse. I agree with Kayty on warming up first, my TB is cold backed and really needs to be warmed before riding- it is night and day with him. I may have missed it, but also most importantly, make sure he doesn't have any soundness issues causing these outbursts. I doubt a 5 yo TB is having growing pains, they mature more quickly than many breeds and he should be about done by 5.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

You obviously know your horse better than anyone on here so take what I'm gonna say with a grain of salt: my girl will rear when she's confused or when she has way too much energy. 
If I start getting all angry with her for rearing, like making her back up quickly or having her do tight circles or whatever, she'll just rear more because she's getting more and more confused. If instead, I just ask her to go forward and just sit on her back, not doing anything, she'll come back to me very quickly. I've been working with her for the last 2 years and the first 6 months was full of rearing almost every ride but once she figured out that I wasn't going to get randomly aggressive when she tried to show me how she was confused, she stopped rearing for the most part. She'll still rear, very small, if I push her WAY past her boundaries but for the most part, she's learned that I'm not going to push her to do things she can't handle and she's learned how to show me she can't handle stuff before she needs OUT. She currently hasn't reared with me on her back in at least 4 months.

I've worked with two rearing horses so far (I know that's not very many, not nearly enough to make a "rule" so I'm TOTALLY not saying this is every rearing horse) and both of them were completely solved with a change of saddle, calm riding, and more exercise. I'm sure there are some horses that just rear to get out of work but I'd bet that's the exception.

Just my $.02. 

I agree with making sure he's warmed up too. That's a very good point.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Wallaby that's a good suggestion, however it doesn't sound as though the rearing in this case is caused by confusion as it has happened on the lead, and within the first 5 minutes of the ride where you don't ask for a hell of a lot (I hope the OP doesn't go straight into demanding movements like half pass within the first 5mins anyway!!!). If he is confused by simple walk and halt aids, either the OP is a terrible rider, or the horse is a breaker that has not had very good preparation work done. Neither of which I think is the case.

Also the fact that the rearing is combined with bucking and crowhopping, I was say it is purely a case of a young tb being cold backed and testing the boundaries. And being so big and powerfull, the OP will sure as hell want to get on top of the behaviour before he takes cranks it up a notch.


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## AppyLover615 (Sep 16, 2009)

I was going to mention tack, bridle saddle anything else, but if he calms down after 5 min, I doubt it could be the bridle, maybe saddle shifting? or i agree he could be testing boundaries or be cold-backed. 

~AL615


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## Mlz23 (Feb 18, 2010)

> I was say it is purely a case of a young tb being cold backed and testing the boundaries.


 
I honestly think this is it. Really and truly. Because today I lunged him before my trainer rode him and my trainer said he was excellent.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Well there you go


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Don't put up with anything on the lunge that you don't want when you're in the saddle.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I think its a matter of respect, since he did it in hand, too. Work on gaining respect and ground work THEN start riding.


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

Kids!

Just be strong and firm and make sure he has a clear understanding you are the boss and aren't going to let his lil fits get the better of you. Lots of good suggestions hear


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## AlabamaHorseMom (Jan 20, 2010)

tealamutt said:


> no advice here (thought you've gotten some good stuff), I just wanted to comment that anyone who can carry an egg, wait for a rear, and then have the calm presence of mind to break it over their head at the height of a rear is my personal hero. =p


My Grandmother always told me to do the same with a water balloon of warm water. THey think its their own blood...

But i feel the same. During a rear, hitting my horse in the head with balloon really isnt whats going through my mind.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Check for the obviously things of course, but then just put him on a longeline for 5 minutes and let him stretch and warmup a bit, THEN get on him.


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## Meaghan1011 (Dec 28, 2009)

I would tack him up, and lunge him for about 20 minutes 10 min each direction then get on, also have a saddle fitter check ur saddle.


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## Mlz23 (Feb 18, 2010)

Know what sucks? When i TRY to even LUNGE this **** beast he won't lunge. today was horrible i tried to lunge him before my trainer rode him to loosen him up and stuff but he just stood facing me rearing and backing up.


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## thunderhooves (Aug 9, 2009)

maybe he's to much horse for you? IDK


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I see the word "recently" in your post. Has your horse's diet changed dramatically from what his previous owner was feeding? Any chance you unintentionally added something that may be contributing to this behavior? Little extra starch maybe? I only ask because the fact that he settles down after the initial hissy fit suggests he's just being a butt. 

If it's not food related, I would think at 5 years old, he's testing his new owner, you, as much as possible. Also if you're not making things very simple for him, he may just be acting up due to frustration. I don't know about other breeds, but young TB's need things to be spelled out for them. If you get on and say, okay we're going to learn leg yeild today, and ask for the whole thing at once, you're just going to end up with a confused horse. He needs to first understand how to go forward, then how to go sideways, and only after he understands both separately can you put them together to go diagonally. Does that make sense? Whether it be you or your trainer, maybe take a few steps back and find the holes. Definitely don't take any crap, but also provide him with calm, clear leadership. Please stay safe and most importantly recognize if you get in over your head and call in help if you need it.


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## SeWHC (Jul 1, 2009)

I've known several young/green horses that would rear/buck/kick in the first 5 minutes of a ride. They like to test everything at this point, to see what they can get away with, although I did find that a few of them would do it because the saddle was in the wrong spot (too far forward), and would stop the bad behavior when the saddle was adjusted or simply put on properly from the get go. Also, depending on how new the horse is to you, he could be just testing you to figure out what he can get away with because he doesn't really know you. That is assuming pain is ruled out, of course.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

How long have you owned this horse? I'd definitely take at least 2 huge steps back...if he's not going to respect you on the ground, is rearing in hand, and you can't get him to lunge nicely...how on earth do you expect to control him under saddle? As a new owner to this young horse, part of your job is to establish your leadership role and that's rarely done from in the saddle.

He's young, he's new to you, new to your barn...alot has changed for him so I'd take him back to basics. Get him respecting you on the ground through round penning, lunging, whatever method you choose...but I don't think you should be ON him at this point. Build a house on dirt and the ground's going to shift and collapse your house...start with a solid foundation.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm not sure if you have the right match in your trainer. Why isn't the trainer stepping in to help you with these problems instead of having you try to lunge him to warm him up for her? If you are having problems giving him the right idea on the ground your trainer should be helping you to get things going in the right direction.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

HMmm ok how are you lunging him? Do you know how to lunge properly and have you lunged difficult horses before?

Make absolutely certain he has no soreness anywhere and make sure his saddle and bridle are a perfect fit. You can often exclude problems with tack by lunging first only in a halter and seeing if he behaves, then in a bridle, then a saddle and so on. You can pick what he's having issues with.

I'd go back to the very beginning with him. When I get horses ott I basically re-break them. I would probably put him in a rope halter, then go through baby steps. Make him walk immediately from a slight tug on the halter, and back up from a pressure on his halter. Yield his shoulders and hindquarters both ways, then ask him to move his jaw away, his neck etc. Every part of him should yield to your touch if you demand it. 

Make sure he will lead at your side, not lagging behind and not towing you along. Make him stop when you want to stop, go when you want to go. If he enters your space, give him a hard time about it. Shake the lead, wave an arm, move aggressively towards him until he steps away from you. 

Once he's learnt how to behave on the ground, you can pick back up with the lunging. Put him on the lunge in a bridle and roller. Run your lunge rein through the bit and clip it to one of the lower D rings on the roller. Ask him to move away from you by walking towards his shoulder and flicking the whip if need be. Get him walking out on a nice big 20m circle. Once he's walked the circle without coming in or facing up to you, ask him to trot on. 

if he faces up to you, get behind him and flick the whip towards him. Some horses are stubborn ******s and you may need to run up and wave at him to really get your point across. If he takes off, no worries just drive him more for a couple of circles so he begins to think they you are actually asking him to run. Offer him the opportunity to slow up, and if he doesn't, drive him again. He'll come to the conclusion that slowing up is far easier than running flat out on a small circle. 

Ensure that you are always positioned slightly more towards his hip than his shoulder so that you are in more of a convenient position to drive him should he try to stop and face you. 

if you get in his face when he rears and backs up, he has no other choice than to rear and back up so it is vitally important that you get behind him and make him go forward.

Rearing stems from 1 of 2 things. 

1. An evasion of the forward aids - a lazy horse may very well rear to avoid going forward, this is a dangerous habit and needs to be nipped in the bud asap.

2. The rider is giving the horse conflicting aids - i.e. asking the horse to go forward, but the giving it no option to go forwards by restricting the forward motion via hanging off the reins, or standing too far in front of the shoulder when lunging. This leaves the horse feeling trapped. He cannot go backwards, he cannot go forwards so he must go up as an escape.

In both instances, forward is the key. It sounds like your boy is rearing for the 1st reason, and I would really get up him and establish that flight rather than fight button. Make him aware of the forward aids, make him aware that if he doesn't react to an initial forward aid by moving forwards immediately, what will follow is not nice, a sharp flick of the whip. A horse cannot rear while going forward, it is physically impossible so keep him moving. As i said when describing lunging, get behind him and DRIVE, keep him even a little more forward than what you would lunge a horse normally, forward is the key. 

Don't get on him until he is perfect on the ground and is lunging calmly with no hint of wanting to go up or backwards.

When it is time to get on, drop your reins. Let him have his head and neck so he feels no restriction in the beginning. Put your leg on and if he doesn't go, hit him. Sit back, maybe grab a chunk of rein or a make yourself an 'oh ****' strap out of an old stirrup leather around his neck so you can keep balanced if he bucks to the whip. If he does buck, whack him again, do not give up whacking him until he has giving up bucking and gone forward, otherwise you will have taught him to buck to the whip and you'll be in even more trouble!

He absolutely MUST go forward. Walk trot and canter must all be 'pony club' style. Long reins out to the buckle, reins in one hand, whip in the other if you really need to get extreme. Every time he goes to slow or baulk, put your leg on or tap him and keep him moving until You ask him to slow.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I would investigate cold back/back pain and saddle fit issues before doing anything else. 

It definitely sounds like the under saddle issues immediately after mounting are related to that. 

As far as the lunging, are you lunging him in your tack? What happens if you lunge him in a cavesson or bridle alone, with nothing on his back?


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

I have a five year old as well (AQHA) but he is testing boundaries also. Yours sound similar to mine in that he just needs to be told whats up and who is it. Having never bought a completely trained horse before, I wonder if it is common for a horse to regress a bit in a new home.....


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