# Bareback - correct position?



## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

What is the correct position when riding bareback?

I tried sitting in the usual position (legs under me, straight back) but it's very painful on my "lady bits" and it felt unbalanced. I experimented and found the most comfortable and balanced position to be with my thighs a bit more parallel to the ground, my feet slightly to the front and my back slightly curved in so that I'm sitting on my buttocks, not touching the pubic bone with the horses spine. Basically, I was keeping my legs in the groove between the horses belly and shoulders, not around his belly. Is this correct or should I try to tough it out with the "correct" position? Is there a trick to make the "correct" position bearable?

The "incorrect" position I found worked really well, I had the whole lesson, including trotting poles and canter without getting unbalanced at all. Not even in the slightest.

Also, bonus question, should I be posting when bareback? I tried it, it was very unbalanced and felt unnatural. The poor mare even took the time to turn around and give me a "look", bless her.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes, you should be able to post bareback. The fact that you found it unbalanced means that your leg is too far in front of you. With your leg under you, if you post correctly in a saddle, posting bareback is not that hard.

And the correct position does not change just because you don't have a saddle.

The ladybit pain is because your horse lacks topline. I find bareback to be much more comfortable on roly-poly types. I, too, have a tendency to want to ride defensively (of my ladybits), and that comes from the fact that I forced myself to ride bareback regularly on an Anglo Arab who was incapable of building topline due to back issues. If you can't ride in the correct position because it hurts on that particular horse, then that horse is not suitable for bareback riding.

I have ridden Thoroughbreds that were supremely comfortable bareback because they had plenty of topline, but I have ridden Thoroughbreds that just... aren't. It comes down to the horse's shape.

I suspect you're riding in a similar position as I was when this photo was taken. Upon seeing this photo and the terrible chair seat I was in, I promptly rode bareback A LOT more, focusing on bringing my leg back under me and not allowing my pelvis to tilt back. Unfortunately I do not have up to date photos of myself on this pony, but I have since completed several bareback rides of up to 45 minutes of trot - alternating between sitting and posting.

A bareback pad can make an uncomfortable horse less tough on your ladybits, but IME an uncomfortable horse will always be an uncomfortable horse.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Sorry about the artistic panorama, I'm too lazy to crop. This was my ridiculously uncomfortable Anglo Arab - you can see that due to his back length and especially his VERY long loin he was all but impossible to get working properly from behind. He went sore regularly if I tried.

You can also see the extreme chair seat I rode in because I was protecting certain sensitive areas from his backbone.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Oh, so it's due to the horses build! That makes sense. I suppose I'm going to be stuck in that chair seat then - I doubt any of the school horses have a decent top line 

Thank you for your answer, it's very helpful.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Just btw, you have some lovely - looking riding locations, I am positively to envious


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

There is a trainer/author, Gawani Pony Boy, who I have not seen anything new from lately. He advocated riding bareback with legs in the groove as you described.

For a quick to ready, comfortable, fun, enjoyable ride for both the horse and you I do not think you need to emulate riding in a saddle. If you are riding to improve a particular under saddle technique, then I can see the point.

If it is not comfortable for you then likely it is not comfortable for your horse either. 

You might consider a bareback pad, I love my suede and medical felt one.

With Dewey, an aging gelding who is a bit bonier along his back bone than he used to be, I now use a saddle pad as well.

Here is a pic of Elwood and me. Followed by a 'digital painting' my sister made of it for my birthday one year:


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

The article is from Horseman magazine, at the bottom is a short video of a girl jumping bareback and rein-less in a symposium/exhibition of some type. 

Her position looks like exactly what you described as feeling "comfortable" for you, it also resembles the dreaded "chair seat". It is the same position I use when I ride bareback which is almost daily. 

Riding Horses Bareback to Become a Better Horseman | Horseman Magazine


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Alycia Burton
She has several videos, but this is a "general" one of her "Free Riding."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxKrzn9mBUA


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

That video is beautiful. I wish I had a beach to ride on and so many open places to just run!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Here's a lass from down our part of the globe and how she does bareback:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxuqbZ0Q_9c

Nice and fluid. Just thought some of you might enjoy this clip. She also has a fabulous attitude to horses and training them. 

PS: Oh, I see HJ has already posted an AB link. :wave: I don't always read everything before posting! ;-)


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

SueC said:


> She also has a fabulous attitude to horses and training them.
> ;-)


 
I think she has a fabulous attitude towards life in general which I am sure flows into the way she interacts with the horses. Liked both videos; such beautiful country!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

OK, here are some potential alternative bareback positions, on alternative steeds, from my native Bavaria:










Traditional Bavarian bareback ox-racing! Quite a skilled and serious thing.









More from the Annual Bavarian Ox-Racing Championships! These guys have serious style! 

And here's a Bavarian giving bareback dressage lessons at CHIO Aachen 2010 - complete with tuba music. He's doing the voice-over in English and it's hilarious...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhVyalvEM1Y


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> I think she has a fabulous attitude towards life in general which I am sure flows into the way she interacts with the horses. Liked both videos; such beautiful country!


You're right, and by corollary I've never met a person who advocated being rough with horses who wasn't also really negative in general, and equally nasty with people!

Psychology again. ;-)

I think gentle, kind, calm, laid-back, positive, warm, generous, courageous people like Ms Burton make the best horsepeople / animal people / people people!


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Haven't seen any oxen busters, here in The States we do mutton busting....some techniques work better than others.

mutton busting - Bing Videos


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Haha, RCD! 

I just had a thought though: The rodeo thing in the US, this typical man-versus-beast contest, like bullfighting actually, is so diametrically opposed to the "achieving something _together_" ethos of something like Bavarian Ox Racing (crude as it might be, I mean, they're not doing ox dressage or anything intricate like that). Battleground versus partnership. And I think maybe that's why the battleground type training styles tend to be more accepted there, whereas where I learnt to ride, partnership and good communication were just so fundamental, and respect was a two-way street!


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Very cool with the Oxen racing. Never heard of that, but I did meet a woman who learned to ride by riding her grandfather's dairy cows in VT. It was years before she actually got a horse.

I have seen Zebra riding and (tame) Brahma bull riding.
Uinta County Herald Brahma bull act wows local rodeo fans

Apparently, *Zebras* were quite the rage for a long while, but I've always been told that they have so much wildness in them, that they aren't reliable . . . I'm sure that's not true of all of them. Here's a history and photos of many different uses for trained Zebras.

DRAUGHT AND RIDING ZEBRAS

and if you Google "Photos of exotic animals being ridden," there are LOTS! (of course, no telling how long the folks were on top or the process of dismounting)


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Back to Op's question. Ride in a way that is most comfortable for you. I rode TBs as a teen and believe me the pubic bone can take an awful beating on a horse with high withers. We found out that rolling the pelvis back made all the difference in the world. We would have trotting races and lean back even farther. We quickly learned to totally relax the lower back muscles to "disconnect" it from the pelvis to get a smooth ride.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Saddlebag said:


> Back to Op's question. Ride in a way that is most comfortable for you.


Thanks, that is my plan. I'm a middle aged novice with zero aspirations, so I only do the things I enjoy - and getting a bruise in the unmentionables is most definitely not enjoyable 

I'm glad to see that at least one equestrian authority endorses "my" method (Gawany Pony Boy mentioned by anndankev). It makes me more confident in my ability and it seems I wasn't completely off the mark.

Also, thank you all for the laughs.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Years later my good trail horse was 16.1hh and mutton withered. I could comfortable ride him in the dressage position as the way he was built, it just worked out that way. The old issue of seat bones digging in, this horse preferred my riding bareback to using a saddle. The seat bones don't remain glued to one place because bareback riders move around on the horse, not restricted by a saddle.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Like others have said, when riding bareback your position is going to be dependent on the horses conformation. As Allison Finch had pointed out to me a couple of years ago, riding bareback isn't really about teaching position but more about balance.
One thing I have learned from riding bareback, much like saddlebag mentions is keeping yourself relaxed. I have a bad habit of tensing and bracing especially when cueing certain maneuvers or if I get nervous(showing) and riding bareback forces me to stay balanced and relaxed otherwise I will bounce myself off or into a very uncomfortable position. I try to retrain my muscles to stay relaxed by riding bareback and carry it over to the saddle. So while you may not have the most desirable position it will help with balance and relaxation.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I ride almost exclusively bareback. I only ride with a saddle when I am going on a long trip, need to take things with me, and I can’t find someone else to tie it on their saddle for me! It started when, around seven years old, I started riding the neighbor’s fat pony to give it some much needed exercise and had nothing but a bridle as equipment. My parents got me a pony of my own, with a halter, rope and bridle and nothing else because that was all we could afford. I continued to ride bareback until at age 13 I got a saddle from my mom, but I never took to it.

I now average riding 3 times per week, 10 miles per ride. I live in the Cascades mountains, so my rides are steep and challenging. I like to ride at the trot mostly, with some walking, loping and galloping. The trails I like have lots of hills and tight turns.

I haven’t found much out there about how to ride bareback so I just do what works. I wish there were more resources, but most of the discussion on bareback just talks about using it briefly in an arena to improve your balance in the saddle. 

On the flat and easy terrain, I ride much as you described, OP. My legs lay in the groove between the front legs and the horse’s barrel. My pelvis is tilted to put me on my pockets, and my legs just dangle comfortably. My knees are bent a bit, so I look like I am in a "chair seat."

I do change my seat on different terrain, however. 

*Steep uphill:* I lean forward, grab some mane high on the horse’s neck, and bring my knees up a bit on the shoulder. 

*Steep downhill:* I lean back on my pockets and move my hips side to side in an exaggerated way to the horse’s motion. My feet tend to hang in front of the horse’s shoulder. I also use this position to communicate to my horse that I want her to slow, collect, halt or back up. It also helps on long hills to clench my butt muscles and make padding between my tailbone and the horse’s spine.

*Quick changes of direction & speed:* I sit up and in a forward seat. My feet hang straight down and it feels like a I am a wishbone on a chopstick, with my body straight up and down and somewhat stiff, pivoting forward and back, and side to side. This allows me to respond to changes in direction and speed while maintaining at the horse’s balance point. It also communicates to my horse that I want to move forward or increase gait. 

When going from a walk to a gallop or a gallop to a sliding stop, my legs swing forward. With explosive increase in speed, I swing back and then forward. My body is upright and stiff, to maintain the pivot point. 

If my horse is high spirited, nervous, or if we are just on a twisty trail, this position works best. I used to worry that this isn’t good riding because I’ve read that your legs should not swing. Now I accept it because it feels right, and it allows me to keep my seat in these situations. 

*High speed with tight turns:* Lifting my knees like a jockey, to use the withers as a stabilizer, and lowering my upper body to the horse’s neck frees my horse to run at top speed.

In all of this, I am stay relaxed, like Cowchick said. If I loose the motion of the horse, I either lean back a bit or slow down until I get it back.

OP, I hope you continue to ride bareback and enjoy it without worry. You have shown you have a natural instinct for it!


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Foxtail Ranch said:


> View attachment 682650


That's exactly how I was sitting!

I am going to save your advice on galloping and tight turns for future use 

However, I am going to try uphill/downhill today, I have a great spot to practice.

Thank you for such a detailed write-up. It helps immensely.
And by the way, the riding you do sounds amazing, exactly how I would like to organize my life.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My driveway has a steep enough hill that when first riding the mutton-withered horse it got interesting as I slide part way up his neck. Not comfortable at all and awkward. After that I figured out to grab mane as close to his withers as possible, hold it tight and my hand/arm stopped the forward slide.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

> View attachment 682650


Love your bareback pad! Never seen one like that.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Its a Stargazer Equestrian Equiseat and I have had it since March. It's perfect! It has real sheepskin that my very cinchy horse approves of, and a design that protects my lower leg from sweat. The cushioning provides me and my horse protection on our long rides & steep trails. I now use a breast collar and crupper to help stabilize the pad, but it really does manage to stay put, even at a gallop up a steep hill which is the ultimate test.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Thank you. I went to their site and see that they have different models. One model says that it comes in different colors but I don't see where they allow a choice for color.

Which model do you have, and do you ever wish you had stirrups with it? I rode bareback for 25 years, (no pad, though) and sometimes on long rides, my feet would fall asleep from hanging for so long. I'd reposition my legs and do circles with my feet or scissor my legs, but I'm just wondering. I'm very tempted to have a massive tack sale and buy one of those equiseats. 

Are they easy to clean? would you recommend the black fleece or white?


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I think, provided the horse isn't making any nasty faces or showing signs of pain, and you're not planning to show bareback (I don't know of many disciplines that allow this anyway) then slight imperfections in seat are really not a big deal


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Zexious said:


> I think, provided the horse isn't making any nasty faces or showing signs of pain, and you're not planning to show bareback (I don't know of many disciplines that allow this anyway) then slight imperfections in seat are really not a big deal


I'm not planning on showing in anything - I don't think they would have me anyway, I was more worried about my balance and saving myself from bruising 

Just on a side note, I can't seem to fully grasp the word "showing"? I'm not a native English speaker. All we have here is dressage and jumping. Does "showing" include any equestrian event with placings (I suppose standard race track racing and endurance would be excluded)?


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

hollysjubilee said:


> Thank you. I went to their site and see that they have different models. One model says that it comes in different colors but I don't see where they allow a choice for color.
> 
> Which model do you have, and do you ever wish you had stirrups with it? I rode bareback for 25 years, (no pad, though) and sometimes on long rides, my feet would fall asleep from hanging for so long. I'd reposition my legs and do circles with my feet or scissor my legs, but I'm just wondering. I'm very tempted to have a massive tack sale and buy one of those equiseats.
> 
> Are they easy to clean? would you recommend the black fleece or white?


They are all black fabric & fleece. The choice is in the color and quality of fleece. You can get the man-made white fleece (cheaper, but still a nice quality) and this is called "carefree." I think I have the Carousel edition with black fleece. I like the black fleece because my horse is chestnut and the hair doesn't show as much. If I had a light colored horse, I would like the ivory.

It is easy to clean: just spray with water and use a shop vac to suck out the dirty water. Real wool fleece is so nice! It is springy and soft, and absorbs sweat completely. The padding makes it comfy, even on my horse with a prominent spine/withers. 

As for missing stirrups, no. It is probably due in part because of my injuring. My right hip, knee, ankle and foot movement is limited because of an injury I got in 2010 in a motorcycle accident. I do post and move my knees up and down depending on terrain. Stirrups are what is uncomfortable for me, but then again, I have don't have much experience in a saddle. Bareback just fits for my old bones.

I think a good pad with plenty of cushioning can make all the difference. I have been riding in my new pad since March. Just yesterday, my 13 year old boy wanted to try bareback. I put the old Parelli pad on his horse and off we went on our 10 mile loop. In 2 miles, he was complaining about his "manly bits" being crushed by his horse's withers and spine. He kept scooting way back, hanging on to the handle to escape the pain. When he finally slid off (onto his feet, which is why I love bareback!), I agreed to trade him because my mare's conformation is more bareback friendly. 

After just 2 minutes, I was reminded WHY I love the Equiseat. I was sitting in my forward seat, trying to keep my seat bones off my mare's back, for both our sakes! 

So, the boy says "That other pad is bad! Its criminal!" I said, well it's old and not as expensive. So now he wants one too, because he really likes bareback. *sigh* Time to get another job...


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^Haha, I think you've sold me too!

OP--Yes, "showing" seems to be an umbrella term encompassing most events. I've never heard it in reference to racing or endurance, but have heard it in reference to most all English events and a number of Western ones.
In regards to your original question, do what's most comfortable for you.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Zexious said:


> I think, provided the horse isn't making any nasty faces or showing signs of pain, and you're not planning to show bareback (I don't know of many disciplines that allow this anyway) then slight imperfections in seat are really not a big deal


Bareback classes were common when I was doing gymkhanas here in Australia in the late 1980s and 1990s. There would be bareback rider classes going though the usual ridden programmes, just without a saddle. Also there were novelty events like bareback barrel racing and bareback trotting races plus bareback races at the gallop. They were all great fun to do. I fear though that the recent increases in public liability premiums have probably discouraged those kinds of events. Not that I ever saw anyone have bad spills in these classes.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^I knew that there /were/ classes like this, I'm just saying that it isn't common. There is also the freestyle reining stuff and the occasional bareback jumper class. But, again, their numbers pale in comparison to saddled classes, at least as far as I know xD


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Horsef said:


> What is the correct position when riding bareback?


The position that allows you to stay on! :wink:

Most important, make sure you aren't trying to grip with your lower leg. That just doesn't work. 



Horsef said:


> Also, bonus question, should I be posting when bareback? I tried it, it was very unbalanced and felt unnatural. The poor mare even took the time to turn around and give me a "look", bless her.


If your horse is bouncy enough to require posting, then yes. You should be able to post bareback. It is quite certainly a hard workout though!


These are a few years old, but posting to show that bareback form is not always perfect! This was the Dollar Race at a gaming show. We went 'round and 'round the arena, western pleasure style, with the judge calling out different gaits (walk, trot, canter). We all had a dollar under our thigh and the last person who still had their dollar at the end of it won. I believe we took 2nd or 3rd on this day, out of a class around 15. 











My barrel horse thought we were supposed to go faster. I was trying to convey otherwise .... even though I was squeezing my thighs to keep the dollar intact!!!




























.....And posting the trot!!


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

SueC said:


> Bareback classes were common when I was doing gymkhanas here in Australia in the late 1980s and 1990s. There would be bareback rider classes going though the usual ridden programmes, just without a saddle. Also there were novelty events like bareback barrel racing and bareback trotting races plus bareback races at the gallop. They were all great fun to do. I fear though that the recent increases in public liability premiums have probably discouraged those kinds of events. Not that I ever saw anyone have bad spills in these classes.


Other novelty classes, Lucky Buck and Bloody Mary classes. Lucky Buck is when everyone puts a dollar under their thigh and goes through a usual flat class. If the dollar drops then that person is out. Last one in the class with a dollar still in place wins all of the dollars. The Bloody Mary class (adults only) is when everyone jumps a round of fences holding a Bloody Mary in their hand. The winner is the one with the most liquid in their glass at the end of the round. Winner drinks all.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Foxtail Ranch said:


> I ride almost exclusively bareback. I only ride with a saddle when I am going on a long trip, need to take things with me, and I can’t find someone else to tie it on their saddle for me! It started when, around seven years old, I started riding the neighbor’s fat pony to give it some much needed exercise and had nothing but a bridle as equipment. My parents got me a pony of my own, with a halter, rope and bridle and nothing else because that was all we could afford. I continued to ride bareback until at age 13 I got a saddle from my mom, but I never took to it.
> 
> I now average riding 3 times per week, 10 miles per ride. I live in the Cascades mountains, so my rides are steep and challenging. I like to ride at the trot mostly, with some walking, loping and galloping. The trails I like have lots of hills and tight turns.
> 
> ...



Hands down the BEST description of bareback techniques I've ever read. Thank you so much for sharing!!!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

1) a bareback pad should be used for hygiene safety. ( when I was young and would ride w.o a bareback pad my bil would tell me i was going to get a rotten crotch due to sweat) 
2) a horse with a bony back .. not good for bareback. you would need a saddle pad and bareback pad.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Disagree about the necessity of using a bareback pad for _hygiene_. I mean, you're wearing clothes presumably, several layers of cotton, and it's never been a concern for me. The pants get horse sweat and a bit of dirt on them and you put them in your washing machine. With a bareback pad you won't be washing your pants as often. I think if people want to use them, great, and if not, great.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

cotton jeans ( or mix) soaked with horse sweat.. not healthy. and if i wear any clothes around the horses , they get washed. Worn once. The washing machine has filters etc to help remove hair. If they did not , i would have hair clothing from the cats and dogs .  
And riding bare is nasty


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

If they're getting *soaked* with sweat, then maybe you aren't conditioning your horse correctly - or riding it in overly hot, humid weather. I've endurance trained bareback and have never got soaked in the process. In summer in Western Australia, when the sea breeze is blowing, bareback can be a very comfortable riding option for horse and rider. Evaporative surfaces maximised for both.

I'm not sure about nasty either.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

But, in all seriousness, totally agree with you, Sue. We have washing machines for a reason xD A little sweat and hair isn't going to kill anyone, provided when you go home the dirty clothes come off and get tossed in the wash haha.

EDIT--Wanted to say, too, how much I love those pics, Beau!


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