# Critique potential new horse



## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

He's nice looking. As far as weight bearing...I weigh about 200 and ride a 15.1 RMH. She has NO trouble carrying me & we ride from 5-7 hrs at a time over some very rough terrain. I also have a mustang mare that is 14.2, she is 3 1/2 and just started under saddle, but I have no qualms about her ability to carry my weight. IMO people get too worried about their weight vs the size of the horse. Bigger is not always better.


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## Kiviknon (Jul 26, 2010)

Should be fine as long as he's sound.


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## palmettogirl915 (Jul 27, 2010)

He's a nice looking boy, good coat and decent muscle build. If you're going to start slow with just trail riding and light dressage I'd say he'd be fine for that.

Conformation-wise: He initially looks like he has a large head, but on second look his head looks like it fits his body. The eye then looks at the neck. His head looks larger due to his thin neck. That is something you can work on in your dressage lessons, just let whoever you take lessons from that you want to work on building his neck.

As for the fetlock on the cocked leg, I would definitely take a look at it if/when you go look at him. Have the owner walk and trot him and look for any sign of him being off or lame or any jerky bobbing of the head. If you have the slightest doubt make sure to mention it to your vet for them to check out when you get him vetted. 

Also, the muscling on his hip, above his tail base, looks weird, but that may be because of his cocked leg which is throwing the angle of the picture off. He seems to have good strong legs for his build.

Overall, a nice looking boy!


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## CalienteCalcetines (Oct 5, 2011)

Bellasmom said:


> He's nice looking. As far as weight bearing...I weigh about 200 and ride a 15.1 RMH. She has NO trouble carrying me & we ride from 5-7 hrs at a time over some very rough terrain. I also have a mustang mare that is 14.2, she is 3 1/2 and just started under saddle, but I have no qualms about her ability to carry my weight. IMO people get too worried about their weight vs the size of the horse. Bigger is not always better.


Thanks, you're right. Definitely some shorter but well-built animals that can carry heavier weights well. I guess I'm more worried about the combo of me being at a beginner level (fitness wise) and being heavier; I know I'm going to bounce around some if he gets moving, and not be well balanced, at least initially.
And I would like to eventually get up on Sat. morning, do chores, then head out and spend most of the day riding. Without worrying about lameness or soreness. (I know we'll have to build up gradually to that, to develop my muscles and the horse's).


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## CalienteCalcetines (Oct 5, 2011)

palmettogirl915 said:


> He's a nice looking boy, good coat and decent muscle build. If you're going to start slow with just trail riding and light dressage I'd say he'd be fine for that.
> 
> Conformation-wise: He initially looks like he has a large head, but on second look his head looks like it fits his body. The eye then looks at the neck. His head looks larger due to his thin neck. That is something you can work on in your dressage lessons, just let whoever you take lessons from that you want to work on building his neck.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the feedback! Do you think there's something wrong from the picture, or just something to check on?


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## palmettogirl915 (Jul 27, 2010)

CalienteCalcetines said:


> Thanks for the feedback! Do you think there's something wrong from the picture, or just something to check on?


I don't necessarily think there is something wrong, it could just have easily be the angle of the picture and the fact that he's got the hoof cocked. I would possibly request another picture from the seller with him squared up on all four feet, and even better a video of him moving. That could give you a better idea if it's something you need to be worried about or not, at least until you can go see him in person.

The state of the legs is something you should always check in a potential horse regardless. Without sound legs, you can't do anything with the horse.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I hate to say it, but I actually really don't like him.

Horrible ewe neck, unattractive head. OK shoulder and nice short cannons but that's about all I like about him. Too much slope in the pasterns, and I don't like that hindquarter. The hip angle is too flat, he looks goose rumped (no curve to the top of the rump) and his hocks look upright. Sway back, and is it just me, or do those front feet turn out?

As a weight bearing horse I would avoid him. His sway back and weak pasterns are all wrong for it. If you're concerned about your weight you need a horse with a strong, short back that is not too curved nor too straight, and with pasterns of correct length and slope. CORRECT LEGS ARE VITAL. The rest isn't such a big deal but those pasterns and that back bother me.

Sorry to disappoint you. I just don't want you to end up with a horse that's not what you need and he's not put together right for your needs.


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## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't see a "sway back" at all. He has a fairly prominent wither (not a bad thing), but his back is pretty short & looks fine to me. I also rather like his back end, nice long hip. I would agree about his neck not being his best feature, it doesn't really look like a ewe neck, more just skinny and "shapeless". All in all, I say go for it if his level of training and temperament are a good fit for you.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

If it's just prominent withers then I have another fault to add to the list... downhill! There is way too much drop of the back from croup to base of the wither and how level the BACK is, is how we measure whether the horse is uphill or downhill (or level... I like slightly uphill).

I don't know. His back might not be as bad as the photo shows, but those pasterns aren't great. Too much slope (front pasterns, not hind). Makes for a comfortable ride, but it also makes for lack of strength and durability.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

It's super hard to judge a horse's conformation if they are not standing square. Get another picture where the horse has equal weight baring on all 4 legs then we can actually see his build correctly. 

But from what I see, I personally don't like him either. His back does look weak and his legs overall just freak me out...he just looks like all of this body parts are smushed on him, nothing about his build really flows. He also isn't built solidly and I would keep looking. TB's are soooo common, I'm sure you can find a nicer guy with a little more looking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## palmettogirl915 (Jul 27, 2010)

> Horrible ewe neck, unattractive head.


I would disagree with the ewe neck. It is thin and the muscles undeveloped, but it's not an ewe neck.



> It's super hard to judge a horse's conformation if they are not standing square. Get another picture where the horse has equal weight baring on all 4 legs then we can actually see his build correctly.


I agree, I would get a better conformation picture and even go see him to get an idea of his temperament before completely turning him down. Yes, there might be better, pretty TB's out there, but if their temperaments aren't clicking with yours and this guy's personality does, he might be right for you.

That's one thing I love about foxhunting. A horse doesn't have to be the best looking animal in the world to be a judged "good at it's job." I've seen some less than attractive horses that are some of the best, most willing, kind hunters out there.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

He's standing hipshot on unlevel ground so any conformation critiques are pretty worthless. 

As a beginner rider you need to worry about the level of training and not about conformation at all. Many people buy a horse that is not trained well enough for them and end up getting hurt or not enjoying riding much. You are much better off to buy a horse that is really well trained and gentle even if it's old or has some conformation problems as long as it's sound.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

I do think that he has a rather weak looking back. And the shape of his hip and neck, or rather lack there of, to me speaks of a lack of muscling overall, which could spell weakness. Looking deep, his angles are not horrible, but they do look sorta mismatched.

If you were an experienced rider and were willing and able to bring him into his strength through balance work and lots of long and low, I would say sure as a project. But for a beginner, who will have a spend a lot of time working on your own balance, I recommend looking for a horse that has his stuff together.


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## palmettogirl915 (Jul 27, 2010)

Maybe it's just me, but I disagree. I did my best learning as a rider when I was not on push button, ready-to-show horses. It sounds like CalienteCalcetines is not a true beginner, just coming back to horses after a time away. 

I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute, but I honestly think it's all about his temperament. If he is willing, and she is willing to put the time into muscling him up, then they might just work well together getting back into riding slowly together. On the other hand, if she were to go see him and he was a crazy horse, then she would know that it's not the right horse for her.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

palmettogirl915 said:


> Maybe it's just me, but I disagree. I did my best learning as a rider when I was not on push button, ready-to-show horses. It sounds like CalienteCalcetines is not a true beginner, just coming back to horses after a time away.


I did not mean to suggest that she should look for a push button horse, simply one that has better muscling and a stronger back. If this guy has a forgiving temper and more strength than he looks like in this particular (rather poor) photo, then he might be just the ticket.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> He's standing hipshot on unlevel ground so any conformation critiques are pretty worthless.
> 
> As a beginner rider you need to worry about the level of training and not about conformation at all. Many people buy a horse that is not trained well enough for them and end up getting hurt or not enjoying riding much. You are much better off to buy a horse that is really well trained and gentle even if it's old or has some conformation problems as long as it's sound.


Yep yep best advice I have read here in a long time. Those older been there done that geldings are worth their weight in gold. As far as the horse in the pictures I'd pass. He needs groceries.


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## CalienteCalcetines (Oct 5, 2011)

Thank you to *Everyone* who responded, you've given me lots to think about and keep in mind when I go look at him tomorrow. It's very interesting to me to see all the different perspectives.
I keep going back to the photo now, trying to decide if he has a swayback or not, wondering what's the deal with his hip (goofy confirmation, poor posture, or a combo?), and those pasterns! I hadn't even noticed how far he leaned back there. (Although the confirmation sticky here does suggest that the angle of the pastern can be due to poor trimming, and I know the current owner does her own trimming, so maybe that is correctable?). 

He *does* need groceries, current owner says he is about 100 lbs underweight. I can't see that in itself being a reason not to get a horse though, that's easily correctable. It does make it hard to tell what his muscles might look like when he's in better shape.

Yes, it isn't the greatest pic, but it's what I have, and I wanted to post to get some ideas about things that I should pay attention to when I go to visit. 

Palmettogirl's right, I'm not brand-new to horses, but it's been awhile. And I still have a LOT to learn (don't we all?). And, as Mysterysparrow pointed out, I *will* have to do a lot of work to develop my own balance and riding muscles again. I am willing to work slowly with the horse to build up his muscles -- but I don't want to risk hurting him in the process. 

I can give some of my background, and some of the horses, if that changes opinions I don't know. Didn't say too much up front because I really wanted to see what others thought of the horse -- of his ability to bear a bit more weight & and out of shape rider, and of his ability to do a bit of basic dressage. Both of which I don't know much about (nothing about the dressage part really). 

My background with horses: I grew up on a farm, and riding horses (literally) before I could even walk. Got my first pony at 7, started 4-H shows at 8 (almost 9), joined a 4-H Rodeo club at 10, where I got involved in barrel racing, goat tying, and bull riding (calf riding, really, at that age). I got my first horse for my 14th birthday. From 10-13 yrs old, I worked for a local trainer in exchange for riding lessons (initially, lots of mucking stalls, cleaning tack, scrubbing water buckets, helping unload hay from the truck to the barn. As time went on, exercising the calmer horses, and then riding some of the smaller ones that she was training). At 13 I got a 'real' job at a pony ride company and that took up most of my weekends. My pony and my horse were both completely unbroke and my parents could not afford a trainer, so my riding them was their training. LOTS of mistakes made, and lots of learning. After high school, I went into the Army; my parents divorced, lost the farm and sold the animals. That was about 12 years ago. In 2004 I got stationed at Ft Huachuca - home of the B-troop Cavalry reenactment. I joined the ladies auxiliary portion of that group. As luck would have it though, I conceived my son shortly after I passed the test to be "official" (after months of schooling for it). So, I never rode in any actual events. I *did* learn a good bit there, another lady going through school with me was a veterinarian and very knowledgeable about horses. I never got back into it after my son was born. About a year ago, my husband and I (finally!) bought a place in the country with room for horses. We're finally in a position to get a few. I've never been overweight when riding though, the most I ever was is about 140 before. Even getting into the B troop, with my riding muscles out of shape, I was in decent physical shape. And starting out there, I was amazed at how hard it was to stay with the horse; as a kid I was able to get on almost any horse and within a couple strides, match their pace. Now, almost 6 years away from riding again, and in much poorer physical condition overall, I'm sure it will not be so simple again. I don't really know what makes a horse good for carrying heavier weights, but I'm learning. I want to learn as much as possible before bringing home a horse for myself so that I don't hurt it in the process of getting back into riding.

About the horse: He's 18, he's an ex-race-horse (complete w/ lip tattoo); he ran 18 races, didn't do well at it, and was sold out of that world. Did who knows what for awhile, then ended up in a pasture fending for himself. TB's aren't often easy keepers, and this is AZ -- there isn't green grass most of the year. Even if he was in a large enough pasture that the grass didn't get eaten down to nothing (rare), what was there would not have been enough nutrition in the grass to sustain him. The current owner ended up with him because she saw that the horse was too skinny and went to talk to the people that had him and offer help with feeding....those owners offered her the horse. They weren't interested in help or advice so she took him. Body condition of 1.5 (on a scale of 9) when she took him in, he was way underweight and hooves overgrown. She hasn't ridden him, but she had seen the previous owners riding him, with kids (on other horses) along. She's done ground work with him to include lungeing, no signs of lameness, he's calm for bathing, picks up feet, loads; a bit difficult to get a bit on. Now that he's closer to being healthy, she's looking to give him away. 

Temperament is definitely going to be key; I won't take on a "wild child" or a horse that is unsafe to be around, because my son loves to spend time with the horses now, and he would want to brush, feed & pet the new one even if he can't ride it. (His riding horse is a 25-26 yr old, well trained gelding. ITA with those who've said a good old gelding is worth their weight in gold! His gelding won't be doing any tough work or anything competitive anytime soon -- but he's great for taking the little guy around the round pen at a walk, or trotting a bit). If the horse needs some work / retraining under saddle, I can handle that. IF he can handle my weight through a bit of work. (And of course we'd spend a good bit of time on ground work first. Need something to do while he works on gaining the rest of the weight anyway).


Ok, sorry for the book. But thanks again for the tips. And if any of the above reminds anyone of anything else that I should look for or pay attention to, please share!


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If it were me I'd take him. He's plenty big and he shouldn't have any problem carrying you around. I don't think he's too underwieght to ride right now. As long as you don't ride the guts out of him he will continue to gain wieght.


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## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

Personally, I like a horse more on the lean side; I see way too many horses that are sloppy fat & they are usually really laboring at the end of a 4-5 hr ride. Too many people equate "fat" with "healthy", IMO.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Bellasmom said:


> Personally, I like a horse more on the lean side; I see way too many horses that are sloppy fat & they are usually really laboring at the end of a 4-5 hr ride. Too many people equate "fat" with "healthy", IMO.


I personally dont equate health with every rib poking thru and no top line like the horse in the photo tb's seem to be hard keepers not all but most do


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## CalienteCalcetines (Oct 5, 2011)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> I personally dont equate health with every rib poking thru and no top line like the horse in the photo tb's seem to be hard keepers not all but most do


I agree with this, healthwise. There's an "ideal weight" for every animal - significantly above OR below that are both unhealthy. However, I don't feel like underweight/overweight should be a huge consideration in purchasing / taking on an animal, since both are easily corrected. (Except for extreme cases which may require veterinary assistance in analyzing nutritional needs and optimum diet while bringing the animal back to a healthy condition).


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## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't like "every rib poking thru and no top line" either, but (to me) that does not describe the horse in question. I don't see this horse, in this picture, as being particularly underweight. He needs some well placed muscle more than anything.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

i agree. He's not very underwieght.


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## palmettogirl915 (Jul 27, 2010)

CalienteCalcetines said:


> I *will* have to do a lot of work to develop my own balance and riding muscles again. I am willing to work slowly with the horse to build up his muscles -- but I don't want to risk hurting him in the process....
> 
> Now that he's closer to being healthy, she's looking to give him away.
> 
> Temperament is definitely going to be key; I won't take on a "wild child" or a horse that is unsafe to be around, because my son loves to spend time with the horses now, and he would want to brush, feed & pet the new one even if he can't ride it. (His riding horse is a 25-26 yr old, well trained gelding. ITA with those who've said a good old gelding is worth their weight in gold! His gelding won't be doing any tough work or anything competitive anytime soon -- but he's great for taking the little guy around the round pen at a walk, or trotting a bit). If the horse needs some work / retraining under saddle, I can handle that. IF he can handle my weight through a bit of work. (And of course we'd spend a good bit of time on ground work first. Need something to do while he works on gaining the rest of the weight anyway).


First off, I'm glad you have the background and understanding to know to take it slow (for the both of you). There is enough that you can do with him on ground work for muscle and weight building before you ride. 

Also, the fact that he is free changes A LOT lol. It seems like you can evaluate a safe horse or not.

Good luck tomorrow!!!!


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I'd be hesitant getting an 18 year old OTTB. An 18 year old can be good, can be great really, but in my experience, many OTTBs start having soundness problems or other health problems when they hit their twenties. As many have mentioned, he's a little thin, and that may be a sign that he is very hard to keep the weight on. An older TB his size could cost A LOT to feed. Even if he's free, the upkeep costs may be a fair bit more than another horse, and also, at his age if you "out grow" him in terms of experience, you'll likely find it difficult to rehome, so consider that unless you have a property you can keep him on for the long term. As I generally pay to agist my horse (when I have one), I could not really afford to buy an elder horse with possibly a limited future usefulness. Every horse is a risk but I'd really think about this one. For me, he would have to be very fit, with very good training and experience to make it worthwhile.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Saskia said:


> I'd be hesitant getting an 18 year old OTTB. An 18 year old can be good, can be great really, but in my experience, many OTTBs start having soundness problems or other health problems when they hit their twenties. As many have mentioned, he's a little thin, and that may be a sign that he is very hard to keep the weight on. An older TB his size could cost A LOT to feed. Even if he's free, the upkeep costs may be a fair bit more than another horse, and also, at his age if you "out grow" him in terms of experience, you'll likely find it difficult to rehome, so consider that unless you have a property you can keep him on for the long term. As I generally pay to agist my horse (when I have one), I could not really afford to buy an elder horse with possibly a limited future usefulness. Every horse is a risk but I'd really think about this one. For me, he would have to be very fit, with very good training and experience to make it worthwhile.


IMO they are free for a reason...someone wants rid of it really fast.


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