# She doesn't even know how to hold the reins, yet she cantered?



## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

If your friend is being truthful, then the facility where she has been riding really is unsafe and unprofessional. Sadly, there are lots of them like this out there and all you can really do is to educate your non-horsey friends and family about how one learns to ride properly. 

However, I used to work in a trail riding barn as well and sometimes I would lead the rides and evaluate the skills of the clients beforehand. Once there was a man who claimed to be very experienced, "been riding for years" and, asked about gaits, he claimed that he was let to gallop in the last place he visited. At that moment, a lesson kid trotted past us on an older horse, slower than a snail. The man pointed at them in excitement and said - yes, yes, we galloped almost THAT fast!  So, although your friend has her view on what experience she has and what has she been doing, the reality might be entirely different.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

If she went to a casual ranch where every Tom **** and Harry go, there is s possibility she cantered. It could be one of those "nose to tail" places where the horses know exactly what the routine is with little instruction from their rider. Don't let it get you down, you need to get from point a to point b the right way - not skip everything in between if it will stand to you in the long run.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I've had exactly one very short paid lesson and I canter all the time....

A horse having a job and working for a living.....imagine that......


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

Nothing wrong with cantering early. When I had my very first lesson many years ago, we did a few rounds of canter (English riding) on the lunge line. A short canter was part of every lesson. My daughter, different barn, got to canter in the arena after maybe 15 hours of riding lessons. While I don't think it's great to let total beginners canter out on the trail before they even know how to hold the reins (I hope they are instructed to hold on to the horn at least), I think it's a bit exaggerated to wait until your trot is perfect... too many people build up this huge respect or even fear because they don't canter enough. It's not all that hard, sitting a real trot (not a jog) is definitely so much harder.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Gee, before so many started believing there was no way someone could ride without a bunch of lessons, people got on horses and did whatever they felt comfortable doing, including full out galloping. In spite of popular belief, many people ride horses without ever having a lesson. I have been riding and showing for 51 years and never had a single lesson. The HORSE doesn't care how you hold the reins as long as you aren't banging his mouth. All the technical stuff like that is a PEOPLE thing. It only becomes important if you are doing more than putzing around on trails. Where did common sense go?


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

How many of last century's cowboys do you think ever had lessons before they went out herding cattle?


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## cebee (Apr 4, 2010)

Rode years ago on a trail ride on Maui... my daughter and I were the only ones who had ridden before out of the whole group. Periodically if the group spread out a bit too much for the horses liking, they would do a little trot to catch up... ANYHOW.. at the end, when the leader asked people what was their favorite part of the ride, several people said they "loved running!!" 
I do however detect a little .. maybe jealousy? On the OPs part. Like somehow her friend just surpassed her in something. Just remember, you have different goals. Neither way is wrong. Not everyone is interested in lessons, perfecting their seat etc. Lots of us are 'just' trail riders. To meander ( or trot, or canter!) around the trails does not require the precision you may want or need to be successful in the show ring. 
Back 45 years ago, there was a riding stable I went to with my cousins... you would give em your $10 or what ever, and head on down the trails at what ever speed you chose to. No nose to trail riding, no leader... clearly the horse knew the way home if needed... and being 11... yup. We cantered. Thats how I learned to ride!


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I had done a little riding, no lessons, when I bought my first horse. I found out that he had a couple of bad habits, one of them running away. I was heading out of town going to meet friends for a ride when he took off, I just sat there because the way I figured, we'll just get there a little faster.
Since I didn't fight with him he soon got over this little habit and it was no longer a problem.

PLEASE NOTE: I would never recommend this to anyone as a solution for running away. I was young and foolish at the time and didn't see anything wrong with letting him run.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Horses and utilitarian beasts of burden. Yes, lessons were unheard of before they became strictly a creature of pleasure. I should say that MOST of us rode a LOT of trail horses before we took lessons. I took my allowance and rented a horse for an hour every warm Saturday for several years before my friend suggested HS lessons. Kinda risky, considering that trail horses turn barn sour pretty quickly, and they had not yet built the underpass so that you didn't race across a busy 3 lane highway back to the barn!
I think it's a lot like learning a musical instrument. You "play" around with it and THEN learn to play it well. OR, you just play around with it!.
I think most of us want more that just hopping on racing our horses around, and practice improves you. However, PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT, which, btw is the Real musician's quote.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

She could have cantered on purpose or by accident. Have you seen her ride? Maybe she has natural ability and confidence


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Maybe you should find another trainer if if been ages and you haven't cantered yet?!?!?!


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

I suspect she didn't actually canter at all. Virtually _all_ my lesson students do not recognize the gaits when they are rank beginners. I have to explain each separate gait to them as they usually think they are "running" at the trot!

As for yourself, I'd suggest asking your instructor if you can begin cantering. It is not generally necessary to "perfect" the trot before being allowed to canter. In fact, your lessons will be much more enjoyable practicing all three gaits. I do have a tendency to hold back students who lack the confidence, control and balance when it come to cantering. All start out on the lunge line first and then get turned loose to canter when those 3 things are in place. Safety is always an number one concern!


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

I'm in agreement with the other older folks here. It could be your friend doesn't have the terminology down. It could be that she went to one of those free for all trail riding places. I worked at one of those, back before liability claims were such a big deal. For all the folks who claimed to be "expert, experienced riders", most got rattled at more than a trot. Only once in a great while did we have to take care of a horse that had actually been run hard. 

At any rate, you have your goals, and your friend has her own. Don't let it interfere with your own progress. If she really is a friend, and you fear for her safety, you can try to guide her to a more methodical approach.


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## Pony Paradise (Sep 16, 2014)

I have actually cantered before at my riding school and it was by accident, after a jump, I was having so much fun- it felt like I was flying! But I got yelled at, all they said was "You must stay in trot"!! I am hoping every single lesson I will learn to canter, I have been waiting for ages. But on another thread I started, people were saying you must perfect your trot and do not rush into cantering.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

I cantered for the first time...I'm trying to get my dates right. I think last year. My brother and I thought it was the next best thing so went out in the roundpen (with helmets) and my brother ended up cantering for like a few feet and same with me. And we didn't even know how to "properly" ride. xD

If your friend says she cantered she probably has. Galloping I wouldn't be sure about. But it's probably one of those deals where you say "Show me" or else just take her word for it and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I worked at a few guest ranches and it was not uncommon for us to have folks canter on riders. The fact is that most folks had an easier time staying on at the canter and the walk. The gait and thing that got them off was the trot and transitions. A canter is not that different than sitting on a rocking horse and most folks can easily fall into that rhythm. The trot is harder to sit than the walk or canter which is why most people spend a long time getting to trot and even when able to canter spend a lot of time at the trot. In addition, the trot is a much more utilitarian gait. Cowboys don't cover x miles to pasture and round up at a canter it sucks the energy out of the horse. They do it at a trot because its effective and covers ground.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

If you wait til you are perfect, you will never progress. NO ONE is perfect. Not even close, really.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

> Cowboys don't cover x miles to pasture and round up at a canter it sucks the energy out of the horse. They do it at a trot because its effective and covers ground.


Very true. But I also doubt you will find many cowboys who took lessons to learn how to trot.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'd be jealous, too, if I were the OP.

why don't you go out and try that riding place, too. you can see for yourself. and you'll probably do just fine.

kind of odd that they have you jumping while never allowing you to canter. before you jump, you should be secure enough to handle a canter with ease, IMO.


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

Woodhaven said:


> I had done a little riding, no lessons, when I bought my first horse. I found out that he had a couple of bad habits, one of them running away. I was heading out of town going to meet friends for a ride when he took off, I just sat there because the way I figured, we'll just get there a little faster.
> Since I didn't fight with him he soon got over this little habit and it was no longer a problem.
> 
> PLEASE NOTE: I would never recommend this to anyone as a solution for running away. I was young and foolish at the time and didn't see anything wrong with letting him run.


 I think a lot of the old cowboys did the same thing back when the west was open. I know Ben Green rode a horse once that was a runner. Took a couple of days but I don't think the horse ran again after that. Every time the horse slowed down Ben urged him faster.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

ChitChatChet said:


> I think a lot of the old cowboys did the same thing back when the west was open. I know Ben Green rode a horse once that was a runner. Took a couple of days but I don't think the horse ran again after that. Every time the horse slowed down Ben urged him faster.


Yes I have done that, one time with a gelding that was well trained, when we were walking home after a ride, he just took a leap in the air and took off down the road. This was very out of character for him and I wondered what the heck caused this but when we got to our drive I sent him on down the road to the corner, then turned and cantered right back to where we started from. He walked home on a loose rein and never repeated this again. For me it only took a few minutes (thank goodness) not days.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Pony Paradise said:


> I have actually cantered before at my riding school and it was by accident, after a jump, I was having so much fun- it felt like I was flying! But I got yelled at, all they said was "You must stay in trot"!! I am hoping every single lesson I will learn to canter, I have been waiting for ages. But on another thread I started, people were saying you must perfect your trot and do not rush into cantering.


Pony it seems to me that if you ride well enought to trot over a jump you should by then have the ability to canter, as horses often do canter after the jump that they have trotted up to.
Maybe you could talk to your instructor about this, even if they suggest doing it on the lunge line first.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

You might ask her whether SHE cantered, or the horse cantered and she managed to stay on. I've done that more than once, as the horses seem to like cantering up the hills rather than walking up. OTOH, the guy I'm riding now, when my friend canters on the flat, and I ask him for a canter, just trots faster to keep up


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## MaximasMommy (Sep 21, 2013)

You keep posting about how much you hate your lesson barn. I think you should go ahead to the places you say your friends are going and do what you want. Canter, gallop on the beach, whatever you want. You seem to be too advanced for the place you are at and ready to go out and hop on whoever's horse you can and go for it.


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## BarrelRacer23 (Aug 17, 2011)

I'd be mad that your allowed to jump but not canter. Seems a little off. Really though, why are you mad/jealous of your friend? It gets you absolutely no where but being bitter. It sounds like your being held back, how long have you been taking lessons? What's stopping you from going there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pony Paradise (Sep 16, 2014)

We have actually made a plan, if I don't canter in these two weeks I will move to the new riding barn straight away. I was going to finish the year off, but I am really excited to do something new. I am feeling held back a lot, we have to learn flexion, straight position, circles and all that in trot. I do find it very weird that I learnt to jump before I cantered.


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## MaximasMommy (Sep 21, 2013)

Pony Paradise said:


> we have to learn flexion, straight position, circles and all that in trot.


Yea, if you don't want to learn all of those details, there's no reason to stick around. I think you made the right choice.


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## Pony Paradise (Sep 16, 2014)

I think so too. Say every time you ride, do you ride perfectly? Like straight "I" shape or 4 fingers behind the roll and all that? All I think about when I'm posting is heels down, stirrups at the ball of my foot and correct diagonals, I find it more fun.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Apart from the jumping, it seems to me that you are going to miss out a lot of very important and beneficial basics. Once you'd get to canter, you'd be so much better off with being able to do correct flexions, straightening, balanced circles, etc.


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## kiwi79 (Nov 11, 2011)

That's the thing with a safe trekking business where people want to ride a horse but don't necessarily want to learn anything - their horses are used to carting people around who have no idea what they are doing. I wouldn't begrudge your friend the pleasure she got from going for a canter, if your current riding barn is frustrating you so much then sounds like a change is a good idea.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Saranda said:


> Apart from the jumping, it seems to me that you are going to miss out a lot of very important and beneficial basics. Once you'd get to canter, you'd be so much better off with being able to do correct flexions, straightening, balanced circles, etc.


I couldn't agree more. Over here I see it far too often - kids get on, go fast and big as quickly as possible - most have horrific falls and get out of riding in their teenage years. The amount of people I know who don't even know what the correct diagonal is would scare you (remember I'm in an English orientates country). Even a friend of mine has a 6 year old daughter... she told me all the kid has to work on is her jumping she can do everything else. I was like _whatttttttttttttt!. _

Anybody can get on a horse, kick it in the belly, pull on the reins and "ride". But if you want to show/compete - learning these finer details, form and technique will all stand to you in the long term.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

I'd also like to add some personal experience. I started off in a lesson barn that provided - well, not the best lessons. Quite soon after getting down the very basics, I was let to jump, to go on very fast trail rides, etc., and it taught me one thing - to hang on! After a year and a half of riding, I hadn't even heard of such thing as diagonals, as proper flexion, as contact, etc. And I thought I'm the bee's knees, because - boy, I was _good_ at hanging on! However, when I finally changed barns and started learning proper riding techniques - well, let me say that it was an extremely humbling experience. I'm still fighting those horrible habits I got taught in the first place - and it were the horses who suffered from my incompetent riding. I cringe whenever I look at the old photos. 

So, don't rush. In the long run, you will be a much better rider if you are patient and really perfect the basics - and it will benefit all the horses you are going to ride in your life.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

It is possible your friend cantered. 
Many years ago before dirt was old my parents sent my sister and I to a summer horse camp. Being newbies we were lumped into the beginner class. Prior to this the only riding I had done was pony rides being lead around and a few where the person let me walk and trot around the ring myself. The horse I was on must have been feeling a little frisky. He came off the rail and was probably trying to scare me a bit. He cantered to the gate and before the instructor was able to say much I had circled the horse and put him back on the rail. I got kicked up to a more advanced class. Truth... I had little idea about what I was doing. I had a good sense of balance and remembered what I had read in all those horsey books.

Wish I had the money for lessons now but I'd probably be an instructors nightmare. After over 40 yrs of going it alone I'm sure I'm full of bad habits that are so ingrained they would be near impossible to correct.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

> The amount of people I know who don't even know what the correct diagonal is would scare you


The THOUSANDS of people around the world who don't CARE what that is would amaze you. All they expect from the ride is a nice cruise down the trail. And for a great many, there is the fact that FINDING a place for lessons and paying for them creates more problems than it solves. "Lesson snobs" seem to forget that a great many horse owners do NOT keep their horses at a boarding stable. I would even hazard to say that is true for most horse owners. For instance, there are NO boarding stables within 100 miles of me, but there are HUNDREDS of horse owners.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

squirrelfood said:


> The THOUSANDS of people around the world who don't CARE what that is would amaze you. All they expect from the ride is a nice cruise down the trail. And for a great many, there is the fact that FINDING a place for lessons and paying for them creates more problems than it solves. "Lesson snobs" seem to forget that a great many horse owners do NOT keep their horses at a boarding stable. I would even hazard to say that is true for most horse owners. For instance, there are NO boarding stables within 100 miles of me, but there are HUNDREDS of horse owners.


And as I said previously:

*"if you want to show/compete - learning these finer details, form and technique will all stand to you in the long term."*

I also stated *"(remember I'm in an English orientated country)."* - we do not have many trails, and the majority of the people here compete. 

So IMO I did have the bases covered in the fact that I was directing this towards people who want to compete/show, not the happy hacker AND the fact that I am in a different country from may of the posters on here.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

My post was not directed especially at you, but to all and any who think you MUST have countless lessons to ride a horse. As I said previously, I have been riding more than 50 years, have shown many horses (WP, cutting, reining, jumping many years ago), won often, and have never had a "lesson".


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Eee gads! Your friend might be like my little brother. A complete natural. Athletic, in general.

He hops on a horse that he finds tied. Canters out to find me. Pulls up. Looks like he's been riding well for decades. Had been led on a pony maybe twice.

Ugh.

But, to you, Pony, I'm glad you are moving on from your barn. You have 'paid your dues,' so to speak.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

The majority of the equestrian population actually benefit from a few lessons. Heck, even the Olympic riders take lessons, or at least I've heard rumors!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Lessons ARE great - if you have the time, the money, the place, and the inclination.

I read lots of books on riding. I may not have a place to take quality lessons, nor the $$, but I can afford to read what some of the greatest riders and trainers of the last 100 year have said.

But the ranchers I've met learned by doing. I don't think any of them ever took a formal lesson. When riding, some of them look a lot like the cowboys of the 1800s, and that style works well for them in rough country. Heck, the mounted shooters I watched on Saturday didn't look like dressage riders, but they & their horses seemed to be having a lot of fun. And in between runs, the horses all stood together, hanging out and looking very relaxed.

A great grandmother:








​ 







​ 







​ 
Those who want to compete in something are welcome to do so. The people in the pictures above HAD taken lessons in mounted shooting, if only by listening to the advice of fellow competitors (they all said their competitors had done their best to HELP them do better, to include loaning gear and giving tips).

FWIW, my DIL was sitting the trot adequately during her first lesson. It took me far longer. Some folks find riding easier than others...and I'm one of the "others"...:evil:

BTW - *I* don't plan to make her mad...:wink::








​


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Saranda said:


> The majority of the equestrian population actually benefit from a few lessons. Heck, even the Olympic riders take lessons, or at least I've heard rumors!


Really???? I ride with several HUNDRED people in this area, and maybe ONE of them had a couple lessons. When I lived in Iowa, same deal. We had a VERY large foxhunting club, and again not more than one or 2 had ever had lessons. YOU are NOT the "majority of the population" , you lesson takers! Please, widen your perspective!

And how many Olympic prospects do you actually know?


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Maple said:


> The amount of people I know who don't even know what the correct diagonal is would scare you (remember I'm in an English orientates country).


I'll go you one better. I don't even know what a diagional IS, let alone why some would be correct and others not. And I suspect my ignorance is shared by many better riders than I. 



> But if you want to show/compete - learning these finer details, form and technique will all stand to you in the long term.


But I don't want to  Nor IIRC did the OP say anything about her friend wanting to compete. Sure, if you do want to compete, you need to learn to do things in the 'correct' manner - correct meaning the way the judges will award the highest score for, regardless of whether or not it might be a stupid thing to do out in the real world. But does a 'correct' diagonal matter to those who don't compete or ride anywhere but on a trail?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

squirrelfood said:


> Really???? I ride with several HUNDRED people in this area, and maybe ONE of them had a couple lessons. When I lived in Iowa, same deal. We had a VERY large foxhunting club, and again not more than one or 2 had ever had lessons. YOU are NOT the "majority of the population" , you lesson takers! Please, widen your perspective!
> 
> And how many Olympic prospects do you actually know?



I don't know any brain surgeons, but I am sure they have taken years of training, and not just "on the job" training.

if you take the word "equestrians" to mean someone who rides for a living, or who rides intensely, as a hobby, and likely competes in some form or another, I would bet that the majority take lessons. that does not mean it's always what you think of with the word "lessons". it can be that they are taught by their family, who are also equestrians, or have a mentor. 

It's possible to just get on and ride and learn a lot without lessons. it's also possible to adapt to it with bad habits that you are blissfully unaware of that if you had some lessons, or a mentor, you might learn a better way. one way can work, but another way can work better, and unless someone presents you with a new idea, you might never expand your horizons. 

and, for those of you who grow up on horses, in horse country and with horses at your fingertips all the time, many people don't have that luxury. they have to "rent". they have to learn by weekly lessons, or lease a horse, or buy one but have it boarded elsewhere. they need to employ a teacher to help them learn what you were privileged to learn by osmosis growing up. 

but, the great part about that is that all this keeps the horse world economically afloat. without that, the very very few people who genuinely make their living with horses would not be enough to keep equestrianism alive in a world where horses are long gone as an essential part of a working world.

so, do not get too down on those who must take lessons. these folks bouy up the world of horses for all of us.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> I don't know any brain surgeons, but I am sure they have taken years of training, and not just "on the job" training.
> 
> if you take the word "equestrians" to mean someone who rides for a living, or who rides intensely, as a hobby, and likely competes in some form or another, I would bet that the majority take lessons. that does not mean it's always what you think of with the word "lessons". it can be that they are taught by their family, who are also equestrians, or have a mentor.
> 
> ...


Oh, I'm not down on those who take lessons, other than their huge insistence that you can't POSSIBLY ride well unless you DO take lessons. They really need re-educated in reality.

PS: I actually DO know a brain surgeon, AND an Olympic rider. I do not wish to be either.


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

OP, I wouldn't be too worried about your friends experience, as many have said its very likely she has no real idea what she did or did not do. In the world of competitive bird dogs it is not uncommon, at all for someone to rent a horse from an FT wrangler, and just be cut loose. From the stories they tell at happy hour after the trial yo would think they spent the day busting broncs. My daddy once told me to believe half of what you see and less of what you hear...... This may be the case.

As far as lesson taking goes. my wife and her sister took lessons for most of their child hood, mostly in preparation for competition (they have both showed and won at a national level) Either one of them can ride anything with hair, as long as the horse more or less knows the basics. I was raised on a farm, where daddy raised and broke a few horses and we chased around some beef on occasion. Lessons on our place were all learned the hard way. I don't know what a diagonal is, and never really cared until now (I intend to learn) and while my wife and sister in law can ride circles around me, they still don't know horses, like i do. And their dad who was raised like i was, and took lessons later in life puts us all to shame. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses in this grand world or horses and ponies. 

Jim


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

jamesqf said:


> Maple said:
> 
> 
> > The amount of people I know who don't even know what the correct diagonal is would scare you (remember I'm in an English orientates country).
> ...


I never stated that I felt the op's friend wanted to compete, I was referring to the op themself and what they are being taught and how it would benefit them if they chose to compete. 

And yes the correct diagonal is something that all riders can use as it makes rising the trot signicantly "easier" (for lack of better terms). 

I'm all for self taught riders, I teach my dd along with a friend because I don't like the way of teaching here (ie go big, high and fast as quickly as possible). I don't think I've ever said that everybody must take lessons, or those who do are better riders. The way I see it is that the more I learn the better I will become... Be it from a trainer, cowboy, riding instructor or the old man down the road who has a word is wisdome while taking care of his old Clydesdale. Is that not why we are all on this thing in the first place? 

I'm also not quite sure why the great "lessons vs self taught" debate as completely derailed a thread that it looks like the op has even given up on Ã°ÂŸÂ˜Â‰


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## MaximasMommy (Sep 21, 2013)

I think the important part is that the op has expressed time and time again that she isn't having any fun dwelling on the more intricate parts of english riding. She really just wants to be able to ride with her friends. What specific parts of riding a person wants to learn is up to them. If she does jump, and goes to a show, and finds out that she needs to double back and learn the stuff she didn't care to learn before, then it would be up to her to go back and learn. I think there are also different types of horses at these different riding facilities who may be able safely to handle a less technically inclined rider. If she isn't having fun where she is, and comes to each lesson in a frustrated and unwilling mood, she wouldn't be learning anything anyway.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

From my experiences with many UK trekking centres the OP's horse cantered/galloped because all the other horses did and it just followed and then it stopped because all the others stopped (actually to be more correct because the lead horse ridden by an experienced rider did these things
That isn't riding - its just sticking on


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## SummerShy (Aug 3, 2014)

A lot of people don't take actual lessons, and more often than not if you DO, you're going at your instructors ideal of a good pace rather than your own. Perhaps if you self taught you'd be in a different spot than you are now. How long is "ages"? And you don't feel you've improved enough in your trotting to progress? Are you certain that's a reflection of your skill/comfort level and not of your instructor? Just a thought.

When I was a kid and taking lessons I had the most laid back trainer in the world. She was a family friend to boot and I spent so much time there. She forced me to push out of my comfort zone and would whack my horse as I walked by so she would lope because I was too chicken to ask for speed. Sometimes facing a bit of fear is a good thing. And sometimes, holding yourself back can be a detriment.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

squirrelfood said:


> Really???? I ride with several HUNDRED people in this area, and maybe ONE of them had a couple lessons. When I lived in Iowa, same deal. We had a VERY large foxhunting club, and again not more than one or 2 had ever had lessons. YOU are NOT the "majority of the population" , you lesson takers! Please, widen your perspective!
> 
> *And how many Olympic prospects do you actually know?*


Quite a few and they ALL take lessons. That's why we have Olympic coaches.

If all you want to do is sit on a horse, no lessons are just fine. If you want to perfect your techniques to be competitive on more than just the local open shows, you had better have some lessons.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

I guess you missed the part where I posted about my competitive recent past. I have done fairly well, thank you. Why is there such a prejudice over self-taught riders? Really, there ARE people smart and hard-working enough to do it. Not everyone is, as you say. But stop trying to knock down those of us who are able to do so.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'll toss out this quote from a guy who gave thousands of lessons and took riding very seriously, but who could also appreciate the more relaxed riding that gives some of us pleasure. Maybe it is the happy medium :wink: :










If the OP's desire is to enjoy the outdoors with her friends and their horses, then lessons could be counterproductive. After all, rise and fall...but where is the wall?










And if she does want to compete later, she can always go back and then learn _because she values it._ One learns ever so much faster when you want to learn those pesky details!​


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I am a happy medium happy hacker. I spent a fair amount of time taking lessons and I have worked with folks who just grew up riding horses. I think aesthetically my position is better/nicer. I look better than them on a horse but I don't necessarily stay on better. I think I have learned an immense amount going back to lesson's once every few weeks when possible for tune ups. It is always nice to have someone nicely suggest how to improve yourself and how you communicate with the horse. 

I think lessons are great with respect to teaching new horse people how to be around horses. Having someone teach you what is or is not safe and what horse behavior is and is not safe would save a lot of people a lot of heart ache. Most of us probably had someone teach us. Many were not born knowing that pinned ears means trouble. We had to learn and I think that has great value. 

I also employ some of those things "arena exercises" on the trail. Lateral movement and leg yields along with smooth transitions and the ability to sit the trot have a lot of merit on the trail.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

squirrelfood said:


> I guess you missed the part where I posted about my competitive recent past. I have done fairly well, thank you. Why is there such a prejudice over self-taught riders? Really, there ARE people smart and hard-working enough to do it. Not everyone is, as you say. But stop trying to knock down those of us who are able to do so.


I didn't miss it. I didn't comment because you didn't say what level of competitions you competed in. Local shows? AA rated jumpers? AQHA Congress?

Yes, almost anyone who can stick to a saddle can compete at a certain level. Not trying to sound snotty, trust me, but there is nothing more embarrassing than finding yourself out of your element and overfaced.

But showing isn't for everyone. Being happy and comfortable on a nice trail is great. Some lessons can be helpful there, too, but many can get by without.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

There are many people in the UK who had some lessons, probably as children and then when they are older buy a horse and start riding again. This is all very well but majority of them would be better with some lessons. Not just for the horse but also to give them more confidence. 

Some people do have a natural ability. One French boy who came for a trek along with several others from his school. This lad, Eric, was tiny, he had never touched a horse let alone rode one! 
We walked and trotted out on the trails. Next day Eric turned up skiving school. He worked hard, wanted to learn. He was just a natural. Good seat, confident, brilliant balance and in three or four hours riding out you would have thought he had ridden all his life.
The one thing he wanted to do was gallop. Out on a rode I told him and one of the liveries to wait until the main ride had reached a certain point and then they could gallop to catch up. 
Next thing was pony came along without Eric! The livery couldn't tell me what had happened because she was laughing so hard! Eric had tried to stand on the pony's rump whils galloping. Pony didn't agree and bucked. No harm done. 

I told him that when he left school he should get into horse racing. Size wise he was ideal and with that natural ability he could have been great.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> Quite a few and they ALL take lessons. That's why we have Olympic coaches.
> 
> If all you want to do is sit on a horse, no lessons are just fine. If you want to perfect your techniques to be competitive on more than just the local open shows, you had better have some lessons.


Compare the OP and her friend. If the friend has natural ability and gut proper coaching she might easily become an Olympic rider. While the OP may not have natural ability and take lessons every day may never become an olympic rider. Some people are just better and pick up on things easier.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Who knows if the friend had any natural ability?
She probably held on tight to the pommel (hopefully didn't use the reins to support herself) and hoped for the best - that's just balance and someone who can roller skate, ice skate, ski or ride a bike can achieve that - doesn't make you a horse rider.
Before I'd call this person a rider I'd want to see her ride the horse at all paces on her own and see if she can get it to go, whoa and turn at all paces.
Having more advanced lessons isn't needed for trail riders but being able to control your horse independently of the rest of the riders does matter if you want to be safe and be a rider not a passenger.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Foxhunter said:


> I told him that when he left school he should get into horse racing. Size wise he was ideal and with that natural ability he could have been great.


I know a jockey who hadn't an interest in horses or sat on one until his late teens when a friends father suggested he give it a go as he was the right size. He ended up being a natural and is quite successful... something that I'm sure makes the kids who dream of it sick to their stomachs :lol:


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

I used to be an exercise "boy" for race horses back in my 20's. No lessons for that either.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

jaydee said:


> Who knows if the friend had any natural ability?
> She probably held on tight to the pommel (hopefully didn't use the reins to support herself) and hoped for the best - that's just balance and someone who can roller skate, ice skate, ski or ride a bike can achieve that - doesn't make you a horse rider.
> Before I'd call this person a rider I'd want to see her ride the horse at all paces on her own and see if she can get it to go, whoa and turn at all paces.
> Having more advanced lessons isn't needed for trail riders but being able to control your horse independently of the rest of the riders does matter if you want to be safe and be a rider not a passenger.


 we dont know anything. none of us were there. There are many scenarios that we are talking about.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

churumbeque said:


> we dont know anything. none of us were there. There are many scenarios that we are talking about.


VERY sensible of you! Common sense may be entertaining a revival after all. Kudos


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Foxhunter said:


> This is all very well but majority of them would be better with some lessons. Not just for the horse but also to give them more confidence.


I don't think the question is really lessons versus no lessons, it's what you get taught in any particular set of lessons. For instance, if you like to ride on trails but have zero interest in showing, lessons in 'correct' diagonals probably aren't much use, while lessons in how to trot, canter, etc (and to stop your horse from doing them ), handling spooks, riding through non-smooth terrain would be much more to the point.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

OP, it is very easy to be jealous bc of a friends comments, or what a friend owns. I was horse crazy and very jealous of a HS friend who owned a horse. She invited me over to come watch her ride. THAT was a big yawn, but she had made her point: _ I have something you don't have._
I had to wait until I was 27yo to own my first horse, and then I owned a herd of six, and I have owned horses every since. I do all of the work. This weekend I will get my last load of hay and it will be ME unloading it from my two trucks into my loft and stacking. I bought 400 bales this year.
I believe that you need to expand your horizons. Be grateful that you get to take lessons. There are people who want to own or even take lessons, and cannot.
If you want to be a horse owner in the future, start studying up now. See if you can be a show groom, or learn how to be one. I'm not as fortunate as Allison to know any top riders, but I do read what many of them write and many started out in the industry by learning the ropes from the bottom.
If your interests lie in pleasure riding, do very well in school, so that you can go into a field that pays well and will enable you to buy a well trained horse in the future and just enjoy it.
Many people, including adults, are jealous of what other people have, BUT, they don't want to work as hard as those other people to get the same thing.
Cheer up! =D


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

So what makes a lesson? Paying $50 an hr and going in endless circles in a ring? Is it not a lesson when you go out with a friend or neighbor and they show you how to do something? Isn't it a lesson when you see a chipmunk dive out of the woods and your horse sees it as a dragon?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think common sense tells you that if you intend to go out on the trails its a good idea to at least have someone tell you how to get the horse to go, stop and turn.
Isn't that a lesson?


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Actually my first horse was a barrel horse and I hit the trails by myself but if my kid had done that I'd have had heart failure.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It's called 'Do as I say and not as I do (or did as the case may be)!!!!!!!


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

jaydee said:


> I think common sense tells you that if you intend to go out on the trails its a good idea to at least have someone tell you how to get the horse to go, stop and turn.
> Isn't that a lesson?


Most everyone I know had that much figured out before they ever got ON the horse. Reading is fundamental.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Or in some cases, "lookin at the pitchers"


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

SueNH said:


> Actually my first horse was a barrel horse and I hit the trails by myself but if my kid had done that I'd have had heart failure.



what my mom did not know . . . . 

if my kids did/do what i did, I'd have to kill them.


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## Pony Paradise (Sep 16, 2014)

I don't think my friend is a natural... she even told me " I tried to go up and down but it's harder than you think!!" I am pretty sure she meant posting.. She said she was holding the saddle the whole time. They actually had to sign something and pick their level of riding, she picked intermediate... I know more than her and I would pick beginner lol. Well, she is never happy for me, so I will be the same to her.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Pony Paradise said:


> ...Well, she is never happy for me, so I will be the same to her.


Don't. You will meet a lot of folks like that over your life, and your own life will have a lot more joy and a lot less bitterness if you just smile & wish them well.:wink:


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## kiwi79 (Nov 11, 2011)

Pony Paradise said:


> I don't think my friend is a natural... she even told me " I tried to go up and down but it's harder than you think!!" I am pretty sure she meant posting.. She said she was holding the saddle the whole time. They actually had to sign something and pick their level of riding, she picked intermediate... I know more than her and I would pick beginner lol. Well, she is never happy for me, so I will be the same to her.


If your friend truly has that attitude then she doesnt sound like much of a friend. It could well be that she hears about your lessons and feels jealous, much in the same way it frustrated you to hear she has cantered. Just brush it off, no point in trying to out-do each other - life is too short!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> what my mom did not know . . . .
> 
> if my kids did/do what i did, I'd have to kill them.


 My mom knew and didn't care.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Pony Paradise said:


> Well, she is never happy for me, so I will be the same to her.


Sorry, but this statement makes me wonder how good a friend YOU are. Why let her bring you down to such a feeling? If all you get is such negative feelings from her, turn away.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

My mother would have been horrified at the near wrecks that happened. I even had the horse flip over on top of me once out on the trail and I didn't say a word. Wasn't until I got to school the next day and just couldn't take the pain anymore and went to the nurse that she found out. I had a big black and swollen bruise from the top of my hip to my calf. Really not sure how I got back on and rode but I wouldn't have made the walk out of the woods.

High teen drama... don't buy into it, Pony. Lot more important things in the world.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

squirrelfood said:


> I used to be an exercise "boy" for race horses back in my 20's. No lessons for that either.


Having worked in and around the racehorse industry for many years, my opinion of how the race lads ride it didn't surprise me to learn many had never had any lessons! 

People can get on a horse and basically teach themselves. That is well and good for them, not necessarily so much for the horse. 

I have always taken lessons, attended courses, watched advanced (international riders) have lessons to learn. Spent masses of money doing so and never regretted it. 
What I do know is that when you are roding a horse you _think_ you are doing something correctly and then an onlooker, with less riding experience, will see something that you are doing or not, without realising it. 

Personally I would rather teach a child who has ridden without much in the way of lessons, they have usually developed an independent seat and have good balance. They will have confidence because they will have made many mistakes, got back on and tried again. It is easier to get them into a good position than it is to teach the rider that has been forced into a stiff upright position.


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