# Seriously itchy belly?



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Her elephant seal impersonation:










I hate seeing her do it cause I know she's uncomfortable - but it is quite funny xD


----------



## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Come over to the nutrition forum, "need some advice from the nutrition/feed stuff gurus"
What started out as a nutritional question turned into the war on flies
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

> I did have the vet look at her "that's just sweet itch, not much you can do about that" -.-'


That's about the biggest crock of ---- that I've ever heard come out of a vet's mouth. I can't believe he said that. You may not have any choices but I'd be looking for a new vet if that kind of tripe ever came out of my vet's mouth.

Uncomfortable isn't the word -- she is absolutely MISERABLE:-(

She is allergic to midge fly bites (and other biting flies) and has sweet itch along her belly line.

To bring her immediate relief, go to WalMart or the Drug store and buy:

1. Betadyne
2. Diaper rash creme ; Equates is cheap and as good as Desitin.
3. Hemeroid *ointment*; again Equates is cheap and as good as Prep H
4. Triple Antibiotic Ointment.

Run don't walk to her and start cleaning. Wash her belly with a strong mix of Betadyne and warm water. Pat dry.

Mix equal parts of diaper rash cream/ hemeroid ointment/Triple Antibiotic and slather it down her belly line, making sure to thoroughly cover all the affected areas.

The hemeroid ointment does a great job of controlling the itch/pain. Diaper crash cream is high in zinc oxide so a helps with healing but also stays on all day and keeps the flies from being able to bite her.

Do that twice a day, every day until she heals up. Then, until the frost kills the flies, I would still slather her belly line every day with diaper rash cream to keep the flies from landing on her. Fly spray only helps for five minutes.

Yes you're going to have to stand on your head and yes it's going to be a major pain but that horse is miserable. 

I would not try and saddle her because the girth could rub against some of that and she's not going to be willing to perform.

In the midst of all that, consider her diet as that can make some difference but not 100%. 

Also consider double-dosing her with pure Ivermectin. I don't understand why that works to control Onchocerca worms (microfiliae that burrow into the skin and are the result of midge fly bites), but it does.

If she is boarded and you can't get to the barn twice day, I hope you can find a way to get there once a day every day until that poor horse is healed up.


----------



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

No she lives downstairs I'll be heading out to the drug store as soon as I've got clothes on - Thank you SO much for the perfectly detailed information!! My only quick question, she has some open boo-boos will any of that hurt her open cuts? and no I wouldn't even think of riding her right now, she's so miserable ;-; my poor pony.

I typically cover her belly in swat and fly spray the rest of her, should I add the desitin or not use swat and just the deisitin? 

Also her diet includes free choice hay/grass all day and split into two meals she gets a little less than 2 cups Crimped oats, a little less than 2 cups Alfalfa pellets, MSM and she was getting brewer's yeast but the last batch came in moldy so she hasn't gotten that in a couple weeks. Anything you think I should add/subtract to help this? 

What would be good maintenance for next year to prevent this? 

Thank you again for the great details!!


----------



## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Theory, relatively proven tho, is that Hardy breeds, like ponies, Arabs, most draft, especially Icelandic horses, can't handle a rich diet and are therefore prone to become overweight and allergic to gnats. In Germany, where thousands of Icelanders have been imported, there are a couple of feed manufacturers who make a special feed which seems to keep the bug reactions down. 
But it starts with hay and pasture. Over there pasture is made for cows. Milk is needed so the grasses used are high yield, high protein. Hard to find natural pasture/ hay. 

As for neck threadworms, you should Google it and see if the symptoms match and try the suggested therapy. 
Having had two mares with sweet itch, who came to me without mane and tail, I used Avon Skin so soft bathoil. Applied to mane and tail early in the morning and again about 5 in the afternoon, it kept the gnats away and after a year my mares had grown full mane and tail. But they didn't have anything on the belly. 
Agree with the ointments walkinthewalk mentioned as they are sticky and greasy, which makes it impossible for the gnats to bite through.


----------



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Ok!! I just came up from doing everything you both listed xD 

Her belly is all soft and white now  She enjoyed her belly rub and loved me putting on all the different creams, she was grooming me back xD I was surprised how well she handled the cold water, but I think, like for us when we have a really itchy spot, the cool water makes it not so bad. 

She's feeling MUCH better right now - I will do this twice a day until she starts to heal up. What should I do for continual maintenance though? And should I keep her on HistAll? How should I prevent this from happening again?

And yes she is quite fat  and a draft breed. I also read that a high protein diet can cause this to be worse, so I'm going to start reducing her alfalfa pellets to see if that helps


----------



## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Handful of oats and a vviamin/ mineral supplement and, as I've said on the other thread, Omega Horseshine. Its flax based, contains also yeast and helps in general with coat, skin, mane and tail, hooves and a lot more. Give her as detailed on the bag. At TSC it's about 40$ for 20lbs and lasts me almost 2 months with two horses. And even if it doesn't help with the itch, you will at least have a very very shiny horse

Once her belly is healed up, try to get the Avon....it really keeps the gnats away. 
One other thing. Gnats fly from just before dawn to about 9 am and again 5pm to dark. Keep her inside for these hours.


----------



## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

> That's about the biggest crock of ---- that I've ever heard come out of a vet's mouth.


Phssssshh... you haven't met the vets in my area. I am never not amazed. It started when my now 26 year old mare was 17 and I asked a simple question over the phone regarding her breathing difficulty in the humid weather. The response was "You said she is 17? She is old, have you considered putting her down?" 

Anyways... The mare mentioned above has a very similar issue. She is frequently seen using small pine trees as belly itchers and doing what your girl is doing in the photo. Diaper rash creme, triple antibiotic, A&D ointment... all helpful if regularly applied.


----------



## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

So what I've found is what you put in, you get out, which applies to more than just performance. When I first got Mudpie, I'd had horses my whole life, but they'd always been relatively hardy, and I didn't know a lot about horse nutrition. I thought all you did was throw them hay in the morning and at night, and that was it. However, that sort of feeding just does not work for Mudpie, who happens to be an extremely high maintenance guy. I went from level one to level ten in horse care pretty quickly!

I've observed Mudpie with and without supplements, and I can say that they've made a HUGE difference in his overall health and wellness.

Mudpie's current diet is:

A.M. 13 lbs of Alfalfa

P.M. 13 lbs of Alfalfa
5 lbs senior feed
3 lbs pelleted rice bran
1 scoop SmartHoof
1 scoop CortaFlx
1 scoop U-7 Gastric Aid

I have, however, modified his supplements, though they have not arrived yet, and he is still on the diet stated above.

I changed to:

1 scoop Farrier's Formula Double Strength
1 scoop SmartFlex I
1 scoop U-Gard
1 scoop SmartOmega 3

I did this in conjunction with a SmartPak representative (who heroically talked on the phone with me for one hour straight and answered all of my stupid questions and helped me compare all of the supplements), and we just found supplements that were around the same price, but with higher levels of certain ingredients, or just better ingredients for my purpose.

He's been on SmartHoof since April, and it has made a BIG difference, but I decided to change to Farrier's Formula because it had more to it, and seemed like a better choice for his hooves, which tend to lack integrity. I like CortaFlx just fine, but SmartFlex has slightly different ingredients. U-7 Gastric Aid is GREAT, but really expensive. Since Mudpie doesn't have ulcers, I decided it would be okay to start him on U-Gard instead, since I'm only using it for prevention. A horse at my barn got extremely sick and was put down, but he had an entire month of SmartPaks left. SmartPak refunded his owners and told them that they could do whatever they wanted with his supplements, and then they ended up giving them to me. I used the SmartOmega 3 for 28 days, and was AMAZED at the difference. Suddenly, Mudpie's coat was shiny and healthy, his mane and tail were growing quickly, and his skin was soft. He was also more vibrant. He'd been getting big hives all over from bug bites, but the hives stopped appearing shortly after.

Sorry for the novel!  My point is that examining and modifying your horses diet can make a BIG difference. Nutrition totally affects your horse, so I wouldn't doubt that your adorable elephant seal could really benefit from adding an omega supplement. 

I'd definitely recommend that you call SmartPak and talk with their experts about your situation, and I know they'd be more than happy to help you. I am SO IMPRESSED with their knowledge and helpfulness, that I just can't praise them enough.

Betadine tends to "burn" the skin, so use it sparingly. I think it's definitely a good idea to start with, but don't do it too regularly. There are medicated shampoos that might be better like this, this, this, this, or this. There are also products like this that could help you manage it, and try to make her more comfortable.

Good luck, and keep us updated!


----------



## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Geeeezzz....what breed of horse is your mudpie, mudpie;-)......26lbs of alfalfa, 5lbs of senior and 3lbs of ricebran??????????
Gotta be TB............
Seriously, I'm wondering. I got my Snipper 300lbs underweight and fed her about 25lbs alfalfa/oat hay and 3 lbs senior and had her up to weight in about a month
pics of her before and after in my album.

Sorry, don't want to steal the thread....


----------



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

desert - you're horse is so sweet, great before+after!

Mudpie- Thank you! I know all about the dangers of Betadine (from a Belgian I worked with, with scratches). So I used it this first time, I will probably use just a tiny dot of it tonight seriously diluted, just enough to get the desitin off so I can put more of all the other stuff on. Then tomorrow I'll decide, depending on how bad it looks. I don't want to wash her too much and completely dry out her skin either.
I'm very curious about the Omega you recommended? I've been learning so much about horse nutrition over my last year of having her - studying all sorts of supplements but Omega seems to be the thing I always overlook, can you educate me?  


Thank you all so much for your help! She seems to already be feeling better. I'm still trying to decide whether or not to reduce her alfalfa more. I'm giving her 1/3 less of all her grains starting about a week ago, so I'm not sure if I want to reduce the alfalfa more? Do you think that it would help? Any other nutrition information I should know about? Thanks again!


----------



## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Geeeezzz....what breed of horse is your mudpie, mudpie;-)......26lbs of alfalfa, 5lbs of senior and 3lbs of ricebran??????????
> Gotta be TB............
> Seriously, I'm wondering. I got my Snipper 300lbs underweight and fed her about 25lbs alfalfa/oat hay and 3 lbs senior and had her up to weight in about a month
> pics of her before and after in my album.
> ...


He's an Appendix. So, yeah, half thoroughbred.  Mudpie was also extremely underweight at first, and I've slowly brought him back to the wonderfully plump boy he is now! Actually, he's not chubby at all. He's just right, and it takes all that food to keep him at a healthy, normal weight! 

To avoid hijacking this thread, here's a review on a product called Buggzo:

"My horse looked awful - had bites all over him. A horse with sweet itch looks and is terribly uncomfortable. He had thousands of bites and I was using expensive fly sprays and nothing was working. Then I ordered Buggzo. WOW! It was truly amazing. It starts working right away. Within a few weeks all his bites were gone. I have 2 horses and the others benefited as well. It not only keeps the bugs off, but their coat shines. It builds the immune system too! You'll see small flies around, but they don't stay. It's a 90% reduction in flies! The pesty gnats stop biting! So I think this product is amazing!" (5 out of 5 review by Donna from Georgia)

If your horse was my horse, in addition to frequently washing with medicated shampoo, and keeping a quality fly sheet on her during the day, I'd start her on a SmartPak with:

SmartBug-Off and SmartOmega 3, or similar products.  It would only cost around $33 dollars a month, and I do believe it would help LOADS.



PunksTank said:


> desert - you're horse is so sweet, great before+after!
> 
> Mudpie- Thank you! I know all about the dangers of Betadine (from a Belgian I worked with, with scratches). So I used it this first time, I will probably use just a tiny dot of it tonight seriously diluted, just enough to get the desitin off so I can put more of all the other stuff on. Then tomorrow I'll decide, depending on how bad it looks. I don't want to wash her too much and completely dry out her skin either.
> I'm very curious about the Omega you recommended? I've been learning so much about horse nutrition over my last year of having her - studying all sorts of supplements but Omega seems to be the thing I always overlook, can you educate me?
> ...


Here's a great little article about it: 3 Reasons to Feed Omega 3s

I found that it was helping Mudpie loads. He looked and felt, well, above average, and definitely stood out in a crowd of other horses. And that was only 28 days of it!


----------



## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Ok, I understand now

And I second the Omega products. I've totally fallen for the Omega Horseshine. 
The Buggzo might be worth a try. 

Mudpie, I see you're in CA too;-)


----------



## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Ok, I understand now
> 
> And I second the Omega products. I've totally fallen for the Omega Horseshine.
> The Buggzo might be worth a try.
> ...


I've never used Omega Horseshine, but I have used SmartOmega 3, which is why I can recommend it. I think that Omega itself is just a really good thing, and it can do a lot for horses. 

Indeed I am! I'm from the middle part.


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Ugh...I have to battle that every season. He rubs his belly on the ground same as your horse. They used to think he it was colic and call me every time. He horse also does that "face" and even lifts his leg so I can give him a good rubbing under there and make him feel better. After much trial and error, we ended up with this routine. 

Start off with a good gentle curry. Gentle enough to not hurt the sensitive belly skin but enough to get the dirt off. Baby wipe or alcohol wipe to the affected area so it's nice and clean. Apply lots of anti-itch cream to the bare spots. (he doesn't rub himself raw so I don't use ointment) After our ride, I blob on lots of Swat or Vaseline and leave it at that. I figure the bugs will just stick to the Vaseline which is why I tried it. This seems to work well enough for him. In other years, he was already rubbed raw by April. Now we can make it all the way to July before the bugs catch up to him. 

Looks like you're already doing most of that. Hopefully she's feeling better.


----------



## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

mudpie said:


> I've never used Omega Horseshine, but I have used SmartOmega 3, which is why I can recommend it. I think that Omega itself is just a really good thing, and it can do a lot for horses.
> 
> Indeed I am! I'm from the middle part.


So am I...Merced County


----------



## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> So am I...Merced County


Madera County 

What a co-inky-dink! ;D


----------



## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi neighbor


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Poor pony - you can see the misery on her face  "Mooooom... it itches so badly..!!" 
You've gotten some great suggestions here - I would only add that perhaps you might consider giving her apple cider vinegar? As I understand, it gets absorbed and put out though the skin, creating a more or less natural fly repellent. It may work for you...?


----------



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks Dressage - ya I was just reading about that. In that smart pak Buggzo thing they use apple cider vinegar dried so it's easier to feed, mixed with garlic and some other stuff. But if I were gonna give her apple cider vinegar how much would you give? She's about 1350 pounds if that matters?

Thanks so much Mudpie - I will definitely be purchasing Buggzo and Omega 3s I can SO definitely see that she needs that - it all makes sense now. She's only been hay and grain for her whole life, that could explain some of her additional 'fluffiness'. 

Thanks everyone else for all the great advice, she seems to already be feeling better. I've tried SO many things, this seems to be working for now.


----------



## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

PunksTank said:


> Thanks Dressage - ya I was just reading about that. In that smart pak Buggzo thing they use apple cider vinegar dried so it's easier to feed, mixed with garlic and some other stuff. But if I were gonna give her apple cider vinegar how much would you give? She's about 1350 pounds if that matters?
> 
> Thanks so much Mudpie - I will definitely be purchasing Buggzo and Omega 3s I can SO definitely see that she needs that - it all makes sense now. She's only been hay and grain for her whole life, that could explain some of her additional 'fluffiness'.
> 
> Thanks everyone else for all the great advice, she seems to already be feeling better. I've tried SO many things, this seems to be working for now.


 I will say that SmartOmega 3 will most definitely work, because I've used it and had phenomenal results; if Buggzo doesn't work for you, you might want to try a different type of the same thing.  It sounds like it could work really well, but I'm not sure. The flies really don't bother Mudpie too much, but he wears a fly mask and fly sheet all the time, and I fly spray him daily. 

I'm so glad you're making progress!  Be sure to keep us updated!


----------



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

My mare is brand new to blankets and she ruined her fly sheet in just a few days when she had one. She does get a fly mask most days.

I think I'll definitely be starting her on Omega 3's it just makes so much sense - going to smartpak as soon as I can xD


----------

