# Rice Bran vs. Oil



## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

If you are feeding rice bran, is there any reason to feed oil as well. I looked at both, and the fat content for each is 20%. The rice bran is also 13% protein while oil has none. 

Also, what about beat pulp makes it so good for weight gain?

Are feeds like equine senior, nutrena all breed, etc. okay to be soaked (with beat pulp)?

What is the point of flax seed?

sorry for the somewhat random seeming questions...just hoping someone out there has the info. :lol:


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

AKPaintLover said:


> If you are feeding rice bran, is there any reason to feed oil as well. I looked at both, and the fat content for each is 20%. The rice bran is also 13% protein while oil has none.
> Only if you are needing MAJOR weigh gain
> Also, what about beat pulp makes it so good for weight gain?
> Beet PUlp is FIBER and super low in sugars.. calorie wise it is just a bit lower then oats...
> ...


 
what are you wanting to accomplish with your diet?? What does your horse look like now?? What do you feed now?? Why are you looking at changing??


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I am feeding seven different horses with varying needs. I am trying to come through the winter with my horses looking and feeling good along the way. We have very cold winters. 

I am trying to keep feeding as simple as possible. 
I do give a lot of hay, but they clearly need more. We had a cold snap, and they all dropped some weight (this was before I started adding "grain" to their all hay diet. I have been "graining now for the last week, and did blanket the horses that seemed hit the hardest by it. 

All of the horses are consistently active (so using more calories). 

I have:

9year old Morgan/QH gelding, currently getting alfalfa pellet, dry COB, beat pulp, rice bran, vitamin mix. Soaked. (the alfalfa-COB is his owners preference -he cannot eat anything with molasis without getting hot, but needs calories.)

9 year old AQHA mare, 9 year old TB gelding, 6 year old APHA gelding, 6 mo old APHA colt, 20 year old AQHA gelding, and 20 year old pony (very fat), currently all getting varying amounts of - nutrena all breed (grain, COB, etc., 14% protein, 2.5% fat), beat pulp, rice bran, vitamins. Soaked. 

even feeding similar diets, feeding time is quite a production separating horses, soaking feeds, etc. The TB is new, and looks good, but I want to keep it that way. The Nutrena all breed is substantially cheaper than the Equine Senior, and the major difference that I saw in ingredients was a much lower fat content in all breed (but I give rice bran). Maybe the fiber is different also? 

Anyway, I just want them on a good diet to keep a good fat pad through the winter. I also don't want to be feeding unnecessary feeds when they are not being utilized how I intend (to keep weight on and provide calories). 

Why does fiber in beat pulp help them gain weight? doesn't hay have a lot of fiber? I don't really get it.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

ok first off the amount of molasses in most feeds is NOT enough to make a horse hot... now COB wow is noramly thur the roof in sugars and starches

Corn alone is 76% sugars and starches
Oats is around 50% 
Barley is at 58% 

the fiber and FAT is where you will get your weight from NOT THE grains they are calories only not heat

being in Alaska a ration balancer is out.... what brands of feed can you get there?? or you can pm me your zip code and I can try that way but I dunno last time I didn't have much luck with hardly any dealers up there.....


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Molasses are on average 59% but the inclusion rate is NORMALLY very very small it is a binder not a feed ... IOW molasses are used to hold the pellets together or the hold the vitamin/minerals to the other ingredients... normal amount is about 5% in a pelleted feed...


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## hotreddun (Jun 27, 2008)

https://www.omegafields.com/static.asp?path=65

This should answer your flax question. Looks like Peggy has all the others covered.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I don't know if it was coincidence with something else or what, but 2 separate times, he was put on molasses mixed feeds, and progressively got more and more insane...then within days of being off, mellowed. These affects have not been seen with the COB - and he IS a horse that uses a lot of calories as he jumps competitively. 

I get why fiber and fat are needed for weight, but aren't calories important also? My other horses are active as well as needing to stay warm in the cold, so do I need to add in a grain for the calories? Or does the Nutrena all breed cover calories? 

These are the feeds I can think of off the top of my head:
Brome pellets
alfalfa pellets
beet pulp
COB
Nutrena All breed, safe choice, senior, (and some others...I have never used others though)

My zip is 99712

I did take the time tonight to go through and mark my scoops so that I can more carefully track exactly what each of them is getting making it easier to adjust as I see each of them... I know weight is better than volume, and I may be able to mark it that way soon (when I find my scale), but I marked it by cups for now. They are currently getting: 

Dusty (Morgan/QH) - 3 cups COB/Alfalfa mix, 3 cups beet pulp, 1/2 cup rice bran. His weight was a bit low, but seems to be improving. He is blanketed. 

Dreamer and Dez (QH mare and Paint gelding) - 3 cups all breed (considering going to safe choice because of higher fat content), 3 cups beet pulp, 1/2 cup rice bran. Neither is blanketed. Since starting on "grain" they seem to have picked up, but I would like to see them fatter. 

Blizzard (paint colt) - 2 cups all breed, 2 cups beet pulp, 1/2 cup rice bran. Was looking great until about two weeks ago, when his spine started showing - he gets a lot of hay. I have had him blanketed for about a week. 

TJ & Chinio (TB & 20yr QH) - 5 cups all breed, 5 cups beet pulp, 1 cup rice bran. TJ is new, and still looks good. Chino was quite low, but has picked up some since I started the grain. Chino is blanketed. TJ has had a light (wind/rain) blanket on. 

Bambi (20 yr pony) - a handfull to make her happy - she is fat. 

Thanks for helping me work through this...I just want to get this down to a good routine where I am not behind the curve ever with their weight - I HATE IT. 

Also, hotdun, thanks for the link.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

OK let me dig for some dealers in your area of BETTER feeds I am not a fan of Nutrena at all for the same reason I don't like Purina most of them are not fixed formula and they are hard to get information out of 

In the mean time up the beet pulp !!

3 cups is about 1/3 lb 9 cups will be a lb 

approx 3 cups of rice bran is lb so increase that as well 

you are not feeding enough of the all breed to get much from nutritionally 

OK now I am off to search and see what kinds of feeds you can get


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

HMMM so far just Purina and Nutrena ... that stinks 

Purina's Enrich32 would provide nutrition and if you up the beet pulp to 9 cups PER FEEDING adn the Rice bran to at least 3 cups per feeding you SHOULD see a difference 

right now they are lacking nutritionally which has to be fixed for their systems to work properly ... alll TRY (I know some people can't) to provide FREE CHOICE HAY


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

grr I cna'tfind ANYTHING but those two which stinks 

so the options are Safe Choice which is most likely lower grain and a tad better nutrition then you are feeding .... but it must be fed at min amounts at least and higher for the harder keepers

Ultima from Purina is another good option for the harder keepers 

let me dig on Nutrena's site some ... I am thinking Empower or the XTN


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

One of my four horses is bonafide metabolic and a second one is trying to head there.

Feeding my metabolic horse is a complicated matter so to keep my feeding life simple, I switched EVERYONE to pelleted rice bran.

All of them also get Omega-3 horseshine, a pelleted vitamin/mineral supplement, and a splash of warm canola oil more for the flavor than anything.

However, that warm canola oil doesn't stay warm long in the cold weather and two of my horses won't eat their feed if I've added too much canola oil and it's gone cold and yukky.

My horses are on 12+ acres of pretty good pasture, they each get a flake or so of grass hay when they come in at night, so they don't get much feed.

The metabolic horse gets the most pelleted rice bran, being fed 12 ounces 2X/day this time of year; I cut that back to 8 ounces 2X/day in the warmer months. Everyone is maintaining their weight.

Pelleted rice bran is 20% fat, so it might work for all of your horses, once you figure out who needs the most and who needs the least.

I prefer the pellets because it's a more enjoyable volume of feed for everyone.

Hope this helps some


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

I did hear in a seminar presented by ADM that feeding straight fat (oil) as opposed to rice bran or other types of feed that have fat in already in them is digested less effeciently...something to do with the fact that water/oil doesn't mix and oil coats the stomach/intestine lining. My memory is a little hazy, so I'm digging around online to see if I can find something about it 

ed: Okay, maybe this is what she was talking about. The jury seems to still be out on the reasons: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=4478

Also, thought this was a good, overall article on the subject: http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10848&nID=12&src=RA

You do have to log in to read these, but its free sign up.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Thanks for the articles sara...that is intersting. 

Peggiesue...so you think the safe choice would be a better nutritional choice than the all breed. How can you tell what has the needed nutrients?


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

well since the all breed nor the safe choice have the ingredient list and nutrena is such a hard company to get info from ... I do know that the Empower, XTN and the safe choice are the only lower starch options that Nutrena offers ... 
I hate the Nutrena site adn most of their feeds for those reason ... 


Most not all commercial feeds will meet the requirments at the min lvel to SUSTAINN a HEALTHY life... that being said ... Nutrena doesn't give enough information to judge 

The only reaosn I will suggest the Safe Choice over the other is the NSC level that is all I have to go on


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## Kincsem (Oct 27, 2008)

The baby should have a higher protein diet than the others. There should be a feed made for foals at your feed store. My yearling and other horses including my 33 year old get Nutrena Triumph with cooked oatmeal,milk,corn oil,soybean oil and some carrot pieces. The youngest who is now a yearling was getting more milk than the others since she needed extra protein to grow on. She is almost as big as her mother already. My brother lives in Fairbanks and he was amazed that people actually have horses there because it gets so cold in the winter and the growing season is so short.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I will look into alternate feeds for the baby, but the protein amount in Safe choice, All breed, and the nutrena youth are all about 14 or 15%. I could add in some alfalfa pellets to up that for him.

It does get quite cold here, and local hay is limited and probbaly more expensive than the states, but we find various ways of coping to keep our horses...Though you can see that I am running into one of the struggles of cold climate now.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

up the beet pulp to as much as they will eat that will help alot .... dont' worry so much abotu the protien % but the amount you are feeding to them... the % doesn't mean anything until you figure in in grams and how much you are giving them 

who knew to feed properly I had to dig out my old math books for the conversions and it takes forever sometimes to get everything convert correctly 

if you can get PUrina's enrich32 feed that to the baby's and older ones ... actually it would work for them all IF YOU CAN GET IT....


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Peggysue said:


> up the beet pulp to as much as they will eat that will help alot .... dont' worry so much abotu the protien % but the amount you are feeding to them... the % doesn't mean anything until you figure in in grams and how much you are giving them
> 
> who knew to feed properly I had to dig out my old math books for the conversions and it takes forever sometimes to get everything convert correctly
> 
> if you can get PUrina's enrich32 feed that to the baby's and older ones ... actually it would work for them all IF YOU CAN GET IT....


I will look into the enrich...I know or feed store carries some Purina. 

I pulled a ingredient list off of a safe choice bag...here is what it has (faded and hard to read): 

wheat middling, rice bran, sun-cured alfalfa meal, soybean hulls, ground wheat, cane molasses, calcium carbonate, soybean oil, lingnin sulfate, salt, more....

crude protein - 14%
lysine - .8%
Meininonine - .8%
theaning? - .5%
crude fat - 7%
crude fiber - 15%
calcium - 1%?
phospheorus - .75%
various trace...


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Here is from the all breed tag:

processed grain by products, grain products, roughage products, cane molasses, plant protein products, salt, vitamin A supplements, more...

crude protein - 14%
crude fat 2.5%
crude fiber 8.5%
acid detergent fiber? 12%
calcium 1-1.5%
phosphorus .5%
more...

Well, looking at those two tags closely has been really educational...I think the Safe Choice is by far a better feed choice - is that a correct assumption?


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

yes I am tickled to see actual ingredients listed !! that is what you are looking for on a feed tag... with the second ingredient on the all breed being grain products you are looking at it having quiet a bit of grain which means it is gonna be HIGHER in sugars and starches and looking at Safe Choice test PRIVATELY at 23% I wouldn't wanna feed anything much higher then that

many times the sugars and starches will actually STOP a horse from gaining the needed weight ... 

if they don't carry the Enrich32 ask them if they can order it... it was formerly Born To Win


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## ahearn (Jul 10, 2007)

I feed all of mine Safe Choice. I have a MFT that is prone to colic. Had collicked 4 times in one year and it was bad. I switched his whole feeding regimen and he hasn't collicked since. It's been 8 months. I also fed this to my QH/Arab who was a hard keeper. He finally sustained his weight on the Safechoice. The only one I am currently having problems with on this feed (STILL NOT CONVINCED IT'S THE FOOD) is my TWH. She is pretty hyped up, but has been since the day I got her. It also helped my OLD QH ranch horse gain weight after losing many of his teeth. It's a pretty good feed for an overall feed. Then you can add whatever you need for each horse if this is doable.

I'm so glad you were able to find the ingredients on the Safe Choice bag, as I have been accused of lying about finding a complete list! HHMMMM, looks like they do print their ingredients on the tag! I was also told this was not a good food as it had too high of NSC's....hhmmmmm!


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Peggysue said:


> with the second ingredient on the all breed being grain products you are looking at it having quiet a bit of grain which means it is gonna be HIGHER in sugars and starches and l*ooking at Safe Choice test PRIVATELY at 23%* I wouldn't wanna feed anything much higher then that


What does this mean? I didn't see this on the tag...23% for what. 

Just out of curiosity, what are the ingredients of the enrich32...now that I have found a list for safe choice, I can compare, and maybe become educated as to why one is better than the other.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

ahearn, I have noticed that a lot of people are using safe choice. My vet, who is an actual horse owner, is quite fond of it, and recommends it. 

I was talking to a friend about feeding habits the other day, and discovered what I think is half of my problem...there are a couple of types of feeders.. the religiously routined and exact type, and the less consistent type. I discovered that I was the latter. Not that I forget meals or anything, but rather than carefully measuring exact poundage and sticking with a feed choice long enough to see what effects it has, I get nervous when I don't see weight gain, so change feed types a lot (without giving time to see change the first feed might have been causing), or change multiple types at once thinking I have gone all wrong with my formula and must reformulate for the magic combo. Then, when my horses get the weight on, I stop graining...what an idiot I am... my horses must really hate me sometimes!

I just had this revelation, and though I should know better (having all of the background knowledge to know this is bad practice), I apparently lack common sense. The only reason I think my practices didn't have bigger impact in the past was because my horses were not nearly as active as they are now, so they were more resilient. 

Well, I have made a resolution...I have marked weights and volumes on all of my feeders, I have made a feed chart for each horse, and I have developed a daily routine for prepping that. I will stick with it, I will, I will...though I will be slowly changing from the all breed as I have now paid closer attention to what is in it. I really enjoy prepping their grain.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

NSC is the amount of sugars and starches in a feed the lower that number the "safer" the feed.... 

If ou are feeding 5 lbs of 23% you are feeding 1.15lbs of sugars and starches per feeding ... this is only slightly below 

Purina does not list actual ingredients on their webpage although you can see the analysis there.... Nature’s Essentials® Enrich™ 32 Supplement

A horse is digestive systems is designed to eat ROUGHAGE/FORAGE products ... therefore the less concentrates we have to give them the better off they are ... 

some people like to argue... and I am not argueing with the uneducated or uninformed ... I will answer any and ALL QUESTIONS I will not argue with those who don' t wanna know


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## ahearn (Jul 10, 2007)

AKPaintlover...that's EXACTLY what I was doing too! I truly had to make marks on my scoop for each horse. (Now, I need another scoop because it became so messy with all the horses I boarded because of Hurricane IKE. Should have done it in that wax pen...would've made it easier!

My farrier also says my horses hooves never looked so good! Their mane, tail and everything just shines. 

Good luck! 

Peggy Sue, please be careful when you are calling people uneducated and uninformed as we all want what's best for our animals. That was uncalled for.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

hmm I don't see ME pointing fingers just stating a fact ... some poeple are afraid of knowledge it intimatdates them and make s them defensive ... 


I fyou ar ehaving luck with Safe choice good for you but you are one of the FEW!! I deal with nutrition information DAILY with more then here as you well know. the knowledge is out there and some don't like what they hear or see... which is the fact that when better options are avaiable, not speaking of you AK, there are more COST EFFECTIVE and healthier ways to feed ... 

do the math ahern and see for yourself


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

on a fixed formula feed you shoul dbe able to weigh each bag and it be the same ... I know with the locally milled feed here there was as much as 1/4lbs difference between bags!! with my gro N Win and my Horsego I have seen no difference unless I get to the "dust" (for lack of better word) that tends to be heavier then the pellets...


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

Hey guys, please remember to keep it friendly. 

As horsepeople, we are more "uninformed" than we are "informed" when it comes to a lot of things, even things we believe we may be well versed in. 

Everyone please respect other's viewpoints and opinions


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think the store bought mixed feeds are great, once you find the one that works best for your horse. 

It would be great to be able to put together the perfect mixture specifically rationed for each individual horse, but that's just not realistic for most people. It's great that some people have that option.

I switched one of my horses to equine senior years ago when my vet made the suggestion and I've been told on many occasions that it's not the best but it works for him. He's doing great since I switched him... I don't see any reason to take a risk in changing his feed.

I think horse feed is kind of like dog food. Some types are better then others but they all get the job done to some extent... Some people choose not to feed grain at all... I actually like the purina products myself and I know alot of people argue against it...but... I've had good results...


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

Sorry, everyone, but this thread got out of hand and had to be closed. The posts warranting its closing have been removed.


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