# Your thought about a tie down



## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I was just curious what your thoughts were when it comes to tie downs. I was wondering if it can cause knots in their neck and since you can adjust them when do you know when it's too much and not enough.

I have heard some bad things about them because the horse can become dependent on them. 


Does anyone use them?


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## BlueJayWay (Feb 8, 2010)

I dont use them, though I probably should at times. but I'm scared that If my horse throws his head up he might damage his neck or nose.


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

Gidget, the ideal length of a tie down is to have your horse standing with his head at his natural height, and push it up into his throatlatch... The tie down should be loose enough to conform to the whole underside of his neck and still have a little slack.

Some horses do better with them, some horses don't. It's all just trial and error.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Tiedowns are blankets used to cover bad horsemanship in most cases. 90% of the people that use tiedowns wouldn't need them if they knew how to ride and their horse was properly trained. This topic has been beat to death but it's been a while since we have had a good debate about it . Below is a link to a thread that went on for a while.


http://www.horseforum.com/western-riding/tie-downs-such-41562/


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

thanks. My horse gets mad if I ask her to do something. I used one and it seemed to help. I took it off and she didnt seem to have such an issue with her head flinging side to side. She was like this since before I brought her home. I was just curious on what people thought.

Kevin,you seem like a real horse man/cowboy sorta guy. What do you think of martingales? People have mentioned those to me before.

I used some spurs on her to see how she did and she listened to me and I didn't feel like I had to kick her guts out....just rolled them. I also have a crop and an under and over...I believe that is what it's called.

I'll have to make a video if I actually remember to get my camera out and start making one!


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Agreed 100% with Kevin, train your horse to accept the bit and your commands or figure out the physical causes of his head tossing. if he is tossing enough to hurt himself you need to figure out why he is doing it instead of using a patch to cover up the problem.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

oh and if I mess around with speed barrels or whatever I feel like practicing she doesn't toss her head untill she is ready to head back to the gate....any idea why she does that? I personally think she is competitive but I was wondering if there is any way I can fix this.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Gidget said:


> thanks. *My horse gets mad if I ask her to do something. *I used one and it seemed to help.
> 
> Kevin,you seem like a real horse man/cowboy sorta guy. What do you think of martingales?
> 
> I'll have to make a video if I actually remember to get my camera out and start making one!


If you feel you need all that stuff to make her listen you need a trainer. And I am sorry but the bolded line is just plain ignorance in type.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> Agreed 100% with Kevin, train your horse to accept the bit and your commands or figure out the physical causes of his head tossing. if he is tossing enough to hurt himself you need to figure out why he is doing it instead of using a patch to cover up the problem.


 
She has no problems with the bit. I keep my reins loose..they are gaming reins. She is sensitive to movement but sometimes will be very stubborn.
I worked with flexing last night and I lunged her and waved to her to come to me and she has been doing AWESOME. She use to buck and rear but seems to be more respectful. It's just when she runs and in the beginning of a trot.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> If you feel you need all that stuff to make her listen you need a trainer. And I am sorry but the bolded line is just plain ignorance in type.


 
Honeysuga, I am NEW to horses. I'm a beginner and I am working on getting to know my horse. I may sound ignorant but I am trying to LEARN.
I hate it when people give beginners a bunch of crap because they are still learning. I am learning from a lot of people and I like to ask a lot of questions. I am getting lessons this summer from a gal I met that is a coach on a equestrian team.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I am not giving you crap, just sound advice, the easiest way for a new person to learn is to get a trainer instead of doing a bunch of trial and error,your horse will thank you.


And to the other posts, I am glad she is improving, isn't it fun to see both of you progess?


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## xLaurenOscarx (Aug 11, 2009)

Honeysuga;573790[U said:


> ]If you feel you need all that stuff to make her listen you need a trainer[/U]. And I am sorry but the bolded line is just plain ignorance in type.


underlined: trainers dont always make the problem better. i had two different ones and they both told me to sell my horse. one said he was dangerous the other said he wont jump. im not getting offers for people to buy him. living proof not all trainers fix the problem


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## xLaurenOscarx (Aug 11, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> I am not giving you crap, just sound advice, the easiest way for a new person to learn is to get a trainer instead of doing a bunch of trial and error,your horse will thank you.
> 
> 
> And to the other posts, I am glad she is improving, isn't it fun to see both of you progess?


i find trial and error are better becuase you've learned from experience no matter how hard the experience was. same with anything in life. you learn from experience. trainers use trial and error too. when they first do something new they dont know if its going to work out. they try it out and then you both learn wheather it'l work or not


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Gidget said:


> Kevin,you seem like a real horse man/cowboy sorta guy. What do you think of martingales? People have mentioned those to me before.


First you want to make sure your horses teeth have been floated and are in good shape. as far as martingales go I don't use them anymore. I did when I was younger for a while because I saw everyone else using them. I realized eventually that if I rode correctly and trained my horse correctly I wouldn't have any need for one. I don't do alot of high pressure events so I don't often have to force my horse to try things he isn't ready for. 

My advice to you is to stay away from any type of speed events untill you can walk, trot and canter on a loose rein and stop soft and collected. You also need to wait until you can w/t/c without your feet in teh stirrups or your hands on the reins. If you work hard it may only take you a couple of years to do this. That may seem like a long time but if you stick with it and learn to ride and get a broke horse before you try to compete you will blow the socks off of girls with much faster horses. 

When I was a kid I did 4-H and I was the only boy that competed in our county. I rode a horse that I paid $75 for and I weighed twice as much as most of those girls. I never went to a show that I didn't place in at least one speed event and usually all three. The only reason for this was that my horse was very well broke and I could ride very well. There were girls on horses that cost $5-10000 that could leave my little horse in the dust all day long but if the girl couldn't get them rated around the barrel or to change leads through the poles it didn't matter how fast they ran.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

xLaurenOscarx said:


> i find trial and error are better becuase you've learned from experience no matter how hard the experience was. same with anything in life. you learn from experience. trainers use trial and error too. when they first do something new they dont know if its going to work out. they try it out and then you both learn wheather it'l work or not


 
That might work if you don't mind ruining a few horses in the process. Why not learn from someone elses experience if you can? I also find punctuation and capitalization are the best way to indicate the beginning and the end of a sentence and make you posts appear more intelligent and easier to read.


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## xLaurenOscarx (Aug 11, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> That might work if you don't mind ruining a few horses in the process. Why not learn from someone elses experience if you can? I also find punctuation and capitalization are the best way to indicate the beginning and the end of a sentence and make you posts appear more intelligent and easier to read.


well ive tried it and my horse is worth twice as much now:/
sorry my cap buttons not working. ive used puntuation
sorry about that


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I think it depends on the person and their opinions. We all have different opinions but I think we should take things in all consideration but it would HELP A LOT if people were a little kinder around on these boards.

Thanks Kevin.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

And thank you Lauren for making me feel better. It was a downer for me and I just want to do my very best. Some people can't spend a ton of money on trainers but I plan on getting a few lessons this summer. I am planning a wedding right now so all the extra money goes towards that.


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## xLaurenOscarx (Aug 11, 2009)

Gidget said:


> And thank you Lauren for making me feel better. It was a downer for me and I just want to do my very best. Some people can't spend a ton of money on trainers but I plan on getting a few lessons this summer. I am planning a wedding right now so all the extra money goes towards that.


no problem if you ever need to talk just pm me or go into chat
wedding is obviosly way more important than getting a trainer at the minute! do as your doing and ask questions whenever your stuck


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

xLaurenOscarx said:


> well ive tried it and my horse is worth twice as much now:/
> sorry my cap buttons not working. ive used puntuation
> sorry about that


 
Sorry about the caps comment it's one of my pet peeves. 

I'm glad your horse is worth twice as much now but you also had lessons from at least two different instructors and I would bet your horse was broke to ride when you got him. Perhaps with a little more help he could be worth 4 times as much or it would have taken half the time. My advice was sound even if you lucked out and are happy with your horse. If you ride for ten more years and look back at your horse you will see where you could have done better and where you messed up out of ignorance. I know this from experience.

To the OP: Sometimes being nice is not the help someone needs. I think you can save yourself alot of needless bumps and bruises if you find a qualified person to help you.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

'Get a trainer' is an oft used catchphrase on these boards. Often people say it because these issues are not sove-able via the internet. However, getting a trainer may not be practical or workable for some people due to many different factors. I'm from Australia and we have a totally different horse culture, and it is rare to find a rider who has a trainer. So take this advice with a grain of salt - In a perfect world we would all have trainers, but it doesn't work like that for many reasons. The fact you are on here asking questions and trying to learn is fantastic! If you use your head, sort through the information you are gievn and decide yourself wether you think it will benefit, and put your horse first, you will generally do ok.

First - A tie down OR martingale should NEVER be used to alter the horses frame or way of going. They should ONLY be used to prevent *excessive* head tossing/flipping - That which endangers the riders face and control.

Now - Tie downs do have a place. Some roping horses do better with a tie down on to brace against when holding a cow, and some barrel horses like to have it to brace against. I don't mind the use for ropers, I personally don't agree with the use for barrel racers, but that's just me. Tie downs are often used in MG instead of a martingale as they don't affect the reins.

A martingale is a far better tool IMO. A tie down is a solid barrier, whereas a martingale is a moveable, changing tool. A tie down has no release - but a martingale can be released by simply giving more rein.

I use a martingale on my arab when other people ride him in high-adrenalin events - he gets excited and tries to do the typical arab head flip. The martingale stops him from even trying. Might I add, it is extremely loose. All it does is stop his nose from getting near vertical.

I don't think martingales or tie downs have a place in flatwork or training. In normal situations they generally aren't needed. It's the high-adrenalin situations, such as high level SJ, Mounted games, etc. where they are *sometimes* needed.

In your case, I don't think a martingale or tie down is the answer. I'm glad to hear you will be getting lessons, I think it will help you out a lot.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I just want to make a note that I never said to get a trainer. I said you need to get help from a qualified person. There are many good horse folks around that will help you out without looking to charge you. At least where I live there are.

Other than that I agree with the above post.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> There are many good horse folks around that will help you out without looking to charge you. At least where I live there are.


^ This is really the best avenue - Just riding with or talking with experienced horse people can be a great learning experience. Keep your ears and mind open and you will learn a ton :]


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Tie downs are unfortunately one of the more abused tools in the horse world. 

I will admit that I'm kind of prejudiced against tie downs since a trainer I knew used a tie down so tight on a young horse, that the poor horse couldn't even canter straight. It also doesn't help that my horse was sold to me with instructions to always ride him with a tie down, and it turned out he didn't need one at all. But I suppose when used correctly, they are a useful tool.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

If I recall, your horse is in pain. She'll need a long while to come out of it. The only time I've seen head tossing is when a horse is sore or has flies in their ears. 

In this case, a tiedown will likely hurt her more than it helps. Instead, work on very gentle riding to give her time to recover.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

vivache said:


> If I recall, your horse is in pain. She'll need a long while to come out of it. The only time I've seen head tossing is when a horse is sore or has flies in their ears.
> 
> In this case, a tiedown will likely hurt her more than it helps. Instead, work on very gentle riding to give her time to recover.


 
She is still recovering and the vet told me to work on a trot and canter  I was just wanting to know the thoughts of a tie down. She doesn't toss her head much as she use to. Her recovery is going smoothly and I'm happy to see that she is doing so well. Anyways, I will not use the tie down. I will work on being a better rider and not use it as a coverup of rider error


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

I was just trying to say that if you cover up her way of showing pain, then she'll go 'oh. This isn't working. Maybe a nice big buck or a kick will get the point across!'

I have seen a tie-down used once.. on a horse who had allergy issues and would just kind of twitch his head. It was harmless, but scared trail riders, and a tiedown fixed it right off.


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## aintnocitygirl (Mar 12, 2010)

Ugh. I hate tie downs. I used to use one on my mare thinking it would help her respond better to the bit... WRONG. Just caused her to get worse after some time. It puts a lot of pressure on their nose causing them to become numb to it & they wont respond as well to halter pressure during groundwork. Also, it makes them build a lot of muscle in their neck. I know a girl who rides her horse in a tie down ALL the time & his neck is so HUGE with muscle & he has a hard head & does not respond to pressure on his nose or from the bit.
I believe every horse can be ridden without a tie down with the proper training. Make sure they are soft in the mouth & flex at the poll, etc.
Tie downs = a disaster. :-x


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I feel explanation is in order to clarify what I posted. I did not mean to be unhelpful, I was giving my best advice seeing as your mare is wroking throuhg back problems and you are a green rider...



wild_spot said:


> 'Get a trainer' is an oft used catchphrase on these boards. Often people say it because these issues are not sove-able via the internet.


Exactly why I went straight to "get a trainer", we have no Idea of exactly what your mare is doing or why...




kevinshorses said:


> I just want to make a note that I never said to get a trainer. I said you need to get help from a qualified person.


No Kevin, I said that, but I should have said what you meant, get help from an experienced person who can be there to see exactly what is going on and help you to learn to work better with your horse. That is not necessarily a trainer though.

I am glad you have decided to forgo a tie down and really focus on your horsemanship. where as a tie down will mask your problem now, bettering your skills will help you both in the long run. Kevin and WS gave you some solid advice on here, hopefully you follow it and learn from it.

God luck!


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## spence (Nov 8, 2009)

i know nothing of YOUR situation, however in the people i know well, i don't see tie downs used much. my appy had a head tossing/pawing problem when i bought him. he still paws, but doesn't toss his head really any more. he still does pull it straight up sometimes, so there are times when i use a tie down still. but experimenting with bits a bit more, i wound up going right back to the curb bit i used on him when i got him. he responds MUCH better, and i use a MUCH milder hand that a loose ring snaffle or a wire twist. tom thumb got ZERO response. he rides better in a halter than a TT.

anyhow, like i said, i don't see tie downs used much. the only real time is when a horse has a habit of pulling it's head straight up with bit pressure.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I had a couple experiences with tie-downs, but came to the conclusion that I just don't need them for the type of riding I do, which is trail riding. 

But here are my two experiences: 

My Paint gelding came with a wicked looking cable tie-down. The gal that had him, only had him a short time and always used the tie-down on him because he came to her from the former owner with the cable tie-down. 

Anyway, I rode him with it for a couple of weeks and he never seemed to need it, so I took it off him and never looked back. He was a very sensitive horse and I think whomever thought the tie-down was a good idea for the horse was too rough with their hands. Because he was really soft and had power steering and power brakes. :lol:

My other experience with using a tie down was from my own ignorance. My second horse was an Arab gelding with a heck of a head tossing problem. I rode him in the same bit the former owner did and never thought to try another one. Finally, several years later I decided to try a different bit on him and viola, no more head tossing! So now I am not afraid to try every bit in my collection if I think the horse isn't totally 100% comfortable with the bit. My poor guy could have been happier years earlier if I didn't assume the bit the former owner was using was the best one for him. Poor guy! My version of a tie-down at the time was leaving a halter on under the bridle and tying the lead rope to the center ring of the breast collar. 

You definitely live and learn in life. Since then, I really don't see any reason why I would ever go back to using a tie-down for trail riding. 

I also have this image of a horse panicking at the non-release of pressure of the tie-down and flipping over backwards, but apparently that doesn't happen much except in my minds eye. :shock:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ It does happen, just not that often and also not often in public. Hence I much prefer a running martingale if one is needed.


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## xEquestrianx (Aug 30, 2009)

I don't like tie downs. I think that the only reason that people use them is because they don't train their horse and don't know how to ride. It's just used as a "crutch" to cover up problems.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

I usually have a horse go head over heals about once a year. They trip or step in a hole and over we go and I can't imagine my horse's head tied down and him trying to throw his head off to the side while he does a complete flip.
Die downs also should never be used anywhere around water. Horses drown by ignorant riders riding into water, it suddenly gets deep and the horse has his head tied down:shock:


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Tie downs can be a very effective tool, if used correctly. Several barrel racers use them to help the horse balance around the sharp turns. And to whoever said a tie down puts too much pressure on the nose, that is incorrect unless the tie down is improperly adjusted or adjusted too short. I used a tie down on Annie for a few years to combat her head tossing(which wasn't from the bit or tooth pain) and now she is perfectly fine without it. Also, with a horse that is a chronic head tosser, I would much, much rather stick a tie down on than get bashed in the face(which has happened). 

Despite what people think, a tie down is NOT meant to be short or tight. If a tie down is that restricting, it is improperly adjusted.


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