# What causes this and how do I treat it?



## Jore (Dec 4, 2010)

I'm no expert, but I'd be calling my vet.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Sunburned ......my Haflinger had that after a move from north to south. Went away in fall. 
Took us forever to figure it out tho. 
I used a Sauerkraut poultice on it, it cleaned it nicely and I could then treat it just like a normal wound. Sounds weird, I know, but it does a super job.
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## SaddleStrings (May 15, 2012)

Is the pasture currently really wet? It could be scratches, which is a fungus. It looks very ouchy! I'm thinking you may want a vet out to check that out.


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## SaddleStrings (May 15, 2012)

Or he could be rubbed raw from the dried on mud?


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## DRichmond (Mar 13, 2012)

It looks like mud fever to me. Yes, if you can have a vet out I think that's your best bet. Probably needs to be put on antibiotics for 10 days, given a probiotic, gently scrubbing the areas and hosing them and applying some Tri-care or similar ointment, perhaps. There appears to be a lot of swelling.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm the third vote for scratches and horrible at that. You need a vet yesterday. I agree with DRichmond, most likely needs antibiotics.


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks everybody.it is bothering him quite a bit, i feel bad for the poor fellow. We are likely going to get the vet out, our regular vet is on holidays right now though so hopefully the ones from the clinic are better than they used to be. What exactly is scratches? Ill have to look into it. And the pasture has been very wet this year but its pretty dry now, and none of the others with him have it.
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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Scratches, mud fever, or dew poisoning all the same thing. Most often occurs on pink skin which would be his white socks.
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

True, but in winter and spring, "cold wet skin loses its protective barrier and the bacteria can enter"....I still opt for a bad case of sunburn
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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Is these his front or hind pasterns?

Desitin for diaper rash works very well.
Preparation H can also work very well.
Sometimes a really tough one needs to be wrapped with a padded wrap and sweat with Furacin salve.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

This article might help:

[url=http://www.gvequine.com/Pages/articles24.php]Pastern Dermatitis - GVEC LLC[/URL]

“Scratches”, “mud fever”, and “greasy heel” are all familiar terms for pastern dermatitis, a common equine skin problem. Technically, pastern dermatitis is not a single disease but a generic skin reaction to a variety of causes. The skin irritation is most often visible at the back of the pasterns and heels, but can sometimes extend along the entire lower limb. Initially signs may be limited to redness and scaling, but they often progress to oozing of fluid (serum) from the skin, matting of hair, and development of crusts. Chronic cases can become very ugly indeed, as the skin becomes thickened and swollen. It may even develop bumpy, mass-like tissue. This condition is very painful for the horse, and can cause lameness in some cases.
“Scratches” is most commonly seen on white-colored hind legs of all breeds of horses. It can be unilateral (one sided), or bilateral (involving both right and left limbs). It may affect all four legs. Most cases seen in our region are due to bacterial folliculitis (bacterial infection), but other causes include contact irritation from caustic substances, mites, fungal infection, and photosensitization related to pasture plant toxicity. 


Pastern Dermatitis - GVEC LLC


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Yes I use Desitin but it seems odd that a horse without feathers would get this, but he DOES have white legs, which leads me to believe it's not scratches but is Photosensitivity. Please read this vet's article about it. The Horse | Photosensitization in the Horse

Please, please call a vet - this is a serious issue that will ONLY get worse if left untreated. If it is photosensitivity desitin may hide the problem but not fix it. Please contact a vet about this, this risk is worth the cost.
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=5863


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

The Photosensitivity cases I have seen had a lot more swelling and a lot more discharge. They involved the entire white leg and any face markings, not just the back of the pasterns. 

The reason I asked if these were front or back pasterns is that geldings sometimes splash urine on their front pasterns while mares splash urine on the hind pasterns. This can burn the skin and cause sores like those in the photos. This can be greatly exacerbated by feeding more protein than the horse needs and there is an excess of ammonia present. I have cleared up many cases of this just by dropping protein levels -- less alfalfa and less high protein concentrates. Any barn where the Ammonia burns your eyes and lungs when you go in in the morning, is telling you that too much protein is being fed.


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

From the sound of the article it does sound like this may be scratches. We will look into have one of the vets out for sure, it's obviously rather painful for the poor boy and I'd like to get it cleared up as soon as possible. Thanks for the input everyone, it's very helpful!
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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

Looks like scratches to me...


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> Scratches, mud fever, or dew poisoning all the same thing. Most often occurs on pink skin which would be his white socks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Also, you don't need a vet for something like this. It's very common, and can be very painful, but easily fixed. Please don't take the advice of getting this horse on antibiotics. There is no need for that, and all it will do is weaken your horse's immune system even if you use probiotics. Antibiotics are way over prescribed. 

I would use Resolve wound formula, it will dry it up, & hair over fast. If it's fungal that will get rid of it. Also, you could wrap first night ichthammol (I do not use furison at all), then in the morning gently slough off the scabs. This will do a more gentle job vs. picking off the scabs, which you need to get off there. I use disposable diapers & vetrap for this location. Wrap w/ resolve first couple days, then use it dry one or two times a day depending where you keep your horse.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Has anyone here used Vetricyn for Scratches? I no longer stall horses so it is never a problem any more. I think the Vitamin A we feed protects the horses on pasture from dew poisoning just like it does from rain rot. But, I have wondered if Vetricyn worked for this. Just curious if anyone has tried it.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Once it is let to get this bad the infection can spread internally. I would want a vet to look at it and a simple blood draw can tell you if there is an infection and how bad. Antibiotics may be needed. If an infection exists it is possible that if not properly treated it can infect the blood and travel from there. 

Yes, antibiotics are overused quite often but sometimes they are very much needed.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Cherie said:


> Has anyone here used Vetricyn for Scratches? I no longer stall horses so it is never a problem any more. I think the Vitamin A we feed protects the horses on pasture from dew poisoning just like it does from rain rot. But, I have wondered if Vetricyn worked for this. Just curious if anyone has tried it.


I have used it on everything but honestly I find Microtek works better, for my mare anyway. And it's cheaper per ounce.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> Once it is let to get this bad the infection can spread internally. I would want a vet to look at it and a simple blood draw can tell you if there is an infection and how bad. Antibiotics may be needed. If an infection exists it is possible that if not properly treated it can infect the blood and travel from there.
> 
> Yes, antibiotics are overused quite often but sometimes they are very much needed.


That scrape has not caused systemic infection. Yes, it needs attention, but the horse does not need to be put on antibiotics. I do agree, sometimes they are very much needed, but not in this case.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

6W Ranch said:


> That scrape has not caused systemic infection. Yes, it needs attention, but the horse does not need to be put on antibiotics. I do agree, sometimes they are very much needed, but not in this case.


How do you know? All we see is a foot. There's no blood work or anything else to indicate otherwise.
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

6W Ranch said:


> I agree. Also, you don't need a vet for something like this. It's very common, and can be very painful, but easily fixed. Please don't take the advice of getting this horse on antibiotics. There is no need for that, and all it will do is weaken your horse's immune system even if you use probiotics. Antibiotics are way over prescribed.
> 
> I would use Resolve wound formula, it will dry it up, & hair over fast. If it's fungal that will get rid of it. Also, you could wrap first night ichthammol (I do not use furison at all), then in the morning gently slough off the scabs. This will do a more gentle job vs. picking off the scabs, which you need to get off there. I use disposable diapers & vetrap for this location. Wrap w/ resolve first couple days, then use it dry one or two times a day depending where you keep your horse.


I so agree with you.
My Hafi- mix had it IN SUMMER after being moved to a more southern part, higher elevation, higher sun intensity. It looked exactly the same, he was very sore. 
It might sound awfully ******* with the Sauerkraut poultice but it worked. One day, and after spreading the sauerkraut all over the pasture, it was all clean, scabs were off and I could treat it right. Healed up just fine. No antibiotics. 
Sometimes people seem to forget about old-time remedies, to the great joy of veterinarians and drug manufacturers.
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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I so agree with you.
> My Hafi- mix had it IN SUMMER after being moved to a more southern part, higher elevation, higher sun intensity. It looked exactly the same, he was very sore.
> It might sound awfully ******* with the Sauerkraut poultice but it worked. One day, and after spreading the sauerkraut all over the pasture, it was all clean, scabs were off and I could treat it right. Healed up just fine. No antibiotics.
> Sometimes people seem to forget about old-time remedies, to the great joy of veterinarians and drug manufacturers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The reason it works it because of the live enzymes and probiotics. It must be real, live, cultured sauerkraut, not pasteurized, canned sauerkraut which will do nothing. Unfortunately, it's hard to find the live kind.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> How do you know? All we see is a foot. There's no blood work or anything else to indicate otherwise.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How do I know? LOTS of experience and over 40 head of horses. We would NEVER call out a vet, or order blood work for something like this. In fact, our longtime vets, some for 20+ years, (we use several different vets depending on the issue) would think we were crazy if we did. lol I've seen a lot worse than this that weren't systemically infected. Blood work on a common wound like this is a waste of money. Just like many Dr's who prescribe antibiotics like candy, I'm sure there are vets who would, too. This is not a major problem, and no need for blood work, or antibiotics. There's no doubt it's painful, but not major. Easy fix with Resolve Wound Formula. http://wilhorse.com


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I deal with a horse who has chronic scratches from any kind of irritation. Hard snow - scratches, shavings too coarse - scratches, bug bites and scrapes on a white leg - scratches, etc..
I've started him on a supplement with higher zinc and copper concentrations to try to get his sensitivity down, so far it's going well. In the interim when treating them (and they have never been that bad) YES I have had to use antibiotics. One of the treatments for chronic or severe scratches is actually a high dose of long acting antibiotics, so yes, in this case especially, I would think that antibiotics are the correct course of treatment. For my horse, I found that the oral antibiotics did little to reduce the scratches (although they did stop the spread), and what works for him is a topical antibiotic/steroidal cream that I get from my vet. When I'm competing I switch to Polysporin to keep things "at bay" and not show up on a drug test!
Depending on the cause of the scratches and environmental conditions, I would advise you NOT to use Desitin or Zinc Oxide as it will soften and weaken the skin, allowing more bacteria to enter and propagate in the tissue. I find Desitin to be the WORST thing I can use on my horse's scratches.

Scratches, in it's chronic and severe forms, is an infection that needs to be treated by a veterinarian and with a suitable course of antibiotics. Minor scratches cases will not need antibiotics. However in this case, or any case where the horse is in severe pain and lameness is caused by the scratches, the horse needs to be seen by a veterinarian and treated suitably.

Good luck!


ETA unless you have 50 horses to ride and it doesn't matter if the horse is lame or sound, then just chuck it in a field to resolve itself and put some wound salve on it that won't list ingredients, even on the container and is available without prescription from a vet, so likely has nothing useful in it *rollseyes*
I have one horse and like to have him safe happy and rideable all the time - so shoot me for calling a vet when he is in pain and has a chronic infection.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

6W Ranch said:


> How do I know? LOTS of experience and over 40 head of horses. We would NEVER call out a vet, or order blood work for something like this. In fact, our longtime vets, some for 20+ years, (we use several different vets depending on the issue) would think we were crazy if we did. lol I've seen a lot worse than this that weren't systemically infected. Blood work on a common wound like this is a waste of money. Just like many Dr's who prescribe antibiotics like candy, I'm sure there are vets who would, too. This is not a major problem, and no need for blood work, or antibiotics. There's no doubt it's painful, but not major. Easy fix with Resolve Wound Formula. Resolve Wound Formula


Glad to not being alone here;-)
I also had different vets for different things and if there was a problem I'd call in. I described the problem, they asked what I had to use and if I thought it was worth seeing. We knew each other well enough to be able to judge the abilities of each other. 
And I've had my share of vets who prescribe antibiotics and cortisone for anything......
IF CORSE, if a wound needs stitching, or colic or foaling problems or mystery lameness I will definitely call a vet. But there are tons of things an experienced horse owner of several decades can take care of
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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I think it is mud fever. 
Whatever it is I would treat it with neem oil. Wonderful stuff. It will lubricate the area, stop the flies and is also very antibacterial.


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

Here is an update photo from today. I picked up some stuff to treat it today, it not on hand but I believe it's called MTG. it's what the tack store owner recommended, and is supposed to clear up funguses, scratches, rain rot, ect. I'm going to be reapplying daily, and hopefully it clears up soon. Btw sorry for the huge photo's, I post off my iPhone and went on the computer the other day and realized how big they show up!








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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

i dont think mtg is supposed to be applied to open wounds.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

MTG won't help, in fact, since it's mostly mineral oil, it will irritate and PROMOTE proud flesh big time. Please do you and yourself a favor. Don't use it, not on this application. The sulfur in MTG won't help the wound, either. By the way, I don't think the store owner understood, or they would have never recommended it for this application. Guaranteed healing results, FAST! http://www.wilhorse.com/


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

This does look like mud fever/scratches/whatever colloquial name you choose, however it could also be sun burn. Some plants can make horses more photo sensitive (likely to burn) on their white patches. Does he have any white markings on his face? If yes, and they are not affected, then I vote mud fever/scratches. If he has any white on the face and it isn't sunburned, it's really really unlikely the heels will burn alone.

If scratches is suspected, keep it clean and dry until the vet can come. I do suspect a secondary infection whether it is sunburn or scrathes and you'd need antibiotics in that case. For now, hose off all the mud and gunk you can, gently scrub with some very mild soap or dilute iodine. Then towel dry and make sure you get it completely dried before turning back out. You can put desitin or diaper rash cream on it when the skin isn't too ulcerated but this looks bad and I wouldn't put anything on it for now, you could make an infection worse with the way it looks now.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Yes, if you stump your toe now, you will definitely make it worse. It's at turning point where you can fix it, or really make a mess of things. It needs to get turned around fast.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

jingojewel said:


> it's what the tack store owner recommended


sweet baby jesus, the wounds now look like this and you went to... the TACK store to find a treatment? I agree most cases of scratches don't need a vet or antibiotics but this is seriously looking quite bad. Get a vet please.


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

The tack store is the only place to get anything here. If mtg will not help then is there anything that's common that would? The wound pictured second is after I washed It and scrubbed the dried out scabs off.
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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

jingojewel said:


> The tack store is the only place to get anything here. If mtg will not help then is there anything that's common that would? The wound pictured second is after I washed It and scrubbed the dried out scabs off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A vet is common, get them out.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

I would read thru the thread and order something FAST! You've been given good advice.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Phone a vet is the first order of business.

Until the vet can make it out go buy some polysporin and hibitane (fluorhexadine) or another mild soap meant to be used for wounds, both should be available at any drug store. Then get non-stick pads (feminine pads will also work), a sponge, soft gauze (get it in rolls), vet wrap and tape.

Clean the wound very gently with the hibitane, warm water and a sponge, be careful not to remove too much of any scabbing, just get the dirt off. Pat dry, do not rub the wound and let it air dry until it is almost dried out. Now very liberally put polysporin onto the wound, don't be afraid to use a whole tube. Cover it with the non stick pad, wrap around the leg first with the soft gauze on a roll, then vet wrap it and then cover the whole thing with tape.
Now the goal is to keep the wound clean, no outside, confine the horse if possible (a stall with clean bedding is ideal) and if you have bute, don't be wary of giving .5-1 gram twice a day. Try not to replace the bandage very often and do not, after the initial cleaning, get the wound wet.
Your vet will be able to give you fun cream with more "oopf" than the polysporin, and antibiotics, and advise you on treatment.

At this point, regardless of what you started with, you are now dealing with an open wound with a very high possibility of infection, sepsis and death. Please call a vet and be very careful monitoring the horse. At the first signs of anorexia and listlessness, take a temp, a breath rate and heart rate and call the vet again.

Good luck!

ETA With the positioning of the wound, and if you are able to confine the horse to a stall, I would be tempted to extend the wrap down onto the bottom of the hoof, up to mid cannon and put standing bandages on the hinds. And if you have clippers and the horse will stand, clip the legs as well.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Anebel, I heartfully agree with you. This is way beyond a simple case of scratches, caused by whatever. Time for the vet, pronto .....
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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

PS to be clear: I AM A VETERINARIAN and I think you should call your vet out to see this horse.


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## ljazwinski (Jul 7, 2012)

please explain the sauerkraut thing to me... I am all for "old timer" remedies, and my gelding gets "mild" cases of scratches in the "muddy" season.... That looks like a SERIOUS case of scratches to me... I keep Rocket's feet as clean as possible (dawn dish soap and a scrub brush) and use desitin on them....


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## ljazwinski (Jul 7, 2012)

OMG!!!! I am NOT the one to instantly scream vet to anyone...I believe that alot of issues can be handled without a vet, but..... CALL A VET!!!!! my horse gets scratches all the time, but NEVER anything like that!!!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I saw another post that mentioned Paprika (in feeding) can help clear up horses prone to scratches from the inside out! I wonder if it works?


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## DRichmond (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm so glad you decided not to use the MTG. If you're unable to have a vet out for any reason and you don't have much selection for topical treatments from your local feed store, Betadine solution, and ointments such as Tri-care or Corona antibiotic hopefully are available at your feed store, and they are pretty affordable. 

Personally, I think alternating Betadine with some Tri-Care or Corona ointment will work well together, so you have a balance of moist/dry to speed up the healing process.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

DRichmond said:


> I'm so glad you decided not to use the MTG. If you're unable to have a vet out for any reason and you don't have much selection for topical treatments from your local feed store, Betadine solution, and ointments such as Tri-care or Corona antibiotic hopefully are available at your feed store, and they are pretty affordable.
> 
> Personally, I think alternating Betadine with some Tri-Care or Corona ointment will work well together, so you have a balance of moist/dry to speed up the healing process.


I agree with this.

Also, in the future, it is much easier to treat this before it gets this bad. I suggest that every time you pick your horses hooves, you take a moment to look at this area. If I see any type of irritation starting, I will swab the area with betadine or chlorhexidine (another surgical scrub). They are both inexpensive. It doesn't hurt anything and can help nip this in the bud.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Just to add, myler had a bad case of greasy heel/scratches, almost up to her hocks on both back legs. Betadine made it worse, in the end smothering her legs in zinc an castor oil cream fixed her up, it's gentle, water repellent and uv protecting. The scabs just fell off and we kept it covered 24/7 in the cream for about a month.
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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

There is a cream called Pro-tect that softens the scabs and waterproofs the area that it is applied to. Althouh I think your case is too far gone for that....


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

I've washed his feet and applied polysporin, I got the kind that has a pain killer in it, and bandaged him up with telfa pads, gauze wrap, and vetwrap. It if wasn't for my mare being on stall rest for hurting herself in july I would keep him in, but we only have one stall. We cant get a vet out until she is back from holidays, but if his feet do not improve we will haul him to the closest vet. I have antibiotics left over from previous times, the powered kind you put on their feed, but I'm not sure if I should give them to him without a vet. We've given them for cuts, post-ops, and geldings.
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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Since its localised to one foot I'd rule out any sort of plant related photosensitivity - especially if he has a pink nose. It looks like a bacterial infection thats got under the skin and eating away at the flesh. He must be in a lot of pain, I'm amazed it isn't alive with maggots
I've used a paste of vaseline and salt on really bad wounds with good effect but this horse needs a vet. The antibiotics you have could well be out of code and ineffective. Do you really want to risk your horse getting blood poisoning?


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

It started out as mud rot, I'm pretty sure, because it's only on his white feet. And if you read it you would see that I have not given him the antibiotics. I don't think it is infected yet, only painful, as there is no pus, no foul smell, no seepage. Obviously I don't want him to get anything, which is why I've been doing my best to help him. I really regret coming here for help sometimes, when people are rude and act as though his wounds are my fault, when im doing all I can here.
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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

ljazwinski said:


> please explain the sauerkraut thing to me... I am all for "old timer" remedies, and my gelding gets "mild" cases of scratches in the "muddy" season.... That looks like a SERIOUS case of scratches to me... I keep Rocket's feet as clean as possible (dawn dish soap and a scrub brush) and use desitin on them....


The real live sauerkraut (not the kind you buy in a can) is a live organism that is extremely anti-inflammatory, antiviral, and antifungal. It's loaded live enzymes and probiotics. I had actually never heard of it used as a poultice, myself, but I do know it's got huge antifungal properties. Our Great Pyranees has had trouble with his ears for years, fungal related. I tried everything, including vetericyn for ears. Two weeks ago I broke down and bought a pricey bottle zymox and it cleared up the ears right away. Supposedly the big difference is the enzymes. This product had tons of great reviews, and it does work. Too bad I can't pack saurekraut in his ears. lol


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

jingojewel said:


> It started out as mud rot, I'm pretty sure, because it's only on his white feet. And if you read it you would see that I have not given him the antibiotics. I don't think it is infected yet, only painful, as there is no pus, no foul smell, no seepage. Obviously I don't want him to get anything, which is why I've been doing my best to help him. I really regret coming here for help sometimes, when people are rude and act as though his wounds are my fault, when im doing all I can here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 You did actually say that you 'weren't sure about giving him the old antibiotics' as if you were thinking about it. I suggested that they might not work so might not be worth giving.
I'm sorry you feel offended by what people are saying to you but the fact that you have let the wound get to this stage and are now asking advice of people on a forum rather than getting him proper vet care doesn't say to me that you are doing all that you can


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

jaydee said:


> You did actually say that you 'weren't sure about giving him the old antibiotics' as if you were thinking about it. I suggested that they might not work so might not be worth giving.
> I'm sorry you feel offended by what people are saying to you but the fact that you have let the wound get to this stage and are now asking advice of people on a forum rather than getting him proper vet care doesn't say to me that you are doing all that you can


I think the OP is just confused. I think I read at least 3 ideas on what this COULD be and 100 different ideas on how to treat it. Everyone seems to have their own "best" approach. To me, reading every single suggestion is helpful but also confusing if you don't know what to do.

The OP went to the tackstore and confided in someone she thought could help. She bought a product that claims it helps. It made things worse.

She already stated that she couldn't contact a vet just yet because of the holiday. Makes sense.

Give it a couple days before you throw the OP to the lions. She needs a vet at this point, who is out of office due to the holiday weekend. I'm afraid she doesn't know enough to do a home remedy herself.


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## ljazwinski (Jul 7, 2012)

jingojewel said:


> It started out as mud rot, I'm pretty sure, because it's only on his white feet. And if you read it you would see that I have not given him the antibiotics. I don't think it is infected yet, only painful, as there is no pus, no foul smell, no seepage. Obviously I don't want him to get anything, which is why I've been doing my best to help him. I really regret coming here for help sometimes, when people are rude and act as though his wounds are my fault, when im doing all I can here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't mean to be rude, if I was.... and I agree that alot of times people on here say things that they shouldn't say... BUT, that is a pretty severe case of scratches you have there... without knowing where you live and your horses living conditions it is hard to say whether or not you could have prevented it or treated it before it got to this stage... I myself looked like an idiot a few months ago regarding my gelding and a bad case of thrush, which I knew nothing about.... NOW, after the help from people on this forum and MANY nights of reading, reading, reading, I am very informed and successful in my thrush battle.... 
Comparing your horse to mine, infection to infection, it sounds like you are doing the right thing... clean it "gently" twice a day, keep some type of antibiotic cream on it and keep it bandaged and dry... I personally would not give the horse antibiotics without a vet, but that's me....


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

It is a VERY advanced case of scratches. A case this severe can cause lameness. I have seen cases this bad before. I had a student whose horse was even worse. We had three vets working on it, even using IV drugs. Nothing worked. It was so hard getting topical meds through all the scabs.

BUT, I found something that worked WONDERS!!

I read in an old time ranchers book to take sauerkraut...pack it around the lesions.....wrap in wax paper (I used saran wrap) wrap as a bandage and leave for five days.

When I first read it, I said WTH??? But then I decided what could I lose? So, I did it. I couldn't stand leaving it for five days and took it off after three.

Every scab and lesion was GONE! There was pink healing flesh left behind that was easy to treat with topical ointments.

Count me shocked!

I highly recommend this. The acetic acid from the sauerkraut, evidently, slowly dissolves the scabs and starts the healing process.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

There ya go! Get some sauerkraut and take pictures! LOL


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I dont like to offend anyone but I'm not going to tell someone they are doing a great job if they aren't because that doesn't help anyone.
Yes there has been some good advice posted but all the time the OP is doing a trial and error thing as she sifts through the many suggestions to 'cure' it the horse is getting worse.
If we take the popular assumption that its 'scratches' then covering it up may not be the right thing to do as it will 'incubate' the cause of the problem and any bacteria that may have entered the wound site.
Is the horse even UTD on Tetanus shots?
Blood poisoning can occur through any open wound, the site doesn't have to appear to have pus oozing or smell foul.
From the last photos it looked as if all the layers of skin had been affected and a case of granulated tissue happening. The longer this continues the more expensive the treatment is likely to be
Also every vet I have ever used has an emergency service to cover holidays. I have had vets out to situations that I felt too risky to deal with myself on Christmas day and the middle of the night.
Though I dont question the proficiency of any experienced horseman who is able to diagnose and treat most minor issues - I do that myself on a regular basis I still claim that 'if in doubt call a vet' is the best policy to adopt and most novice owners are going to be in that 'doubt situation'

REMEDY FOR "SCRATCHES" by Heather Smith Thomas [01/01;F;101f5]

Scratches: Facts & Fiction

Exuberant protuberant


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> It is a VERY advanced case of scratches. A case this severe can cause lameness. I have seen cases this bad before. I had a student whose horse was even worse. We had three vets working on it, even using IV drugs. Nothing worked. It was so hard getting topical meds through all the scabs.
> 
> BUT, I found something that worked WONDERS!!
> 
> ...


I think that's what I suggested waaayyy up in this thread. Glad to see that somebody had the same results with it
I think that sometimes these old tried and proven methods work better than anything else.
In this case tho, I would now call a vet out because it has become a big open wound. Due to all that washing and scrubbing and removing scabs. Scabs are actually part of the healing process. I've seen plenty of minor wounds who would have healed just fine if left alone after applying the proper cream/ointment, but became major issues with a lot of scarring because they were overtreated. 
The OP came here for help, and we all tried, but it's absolute useless to argue which treatment is better and has confused her even more. 
So now the guesswork is out and its fact that a vet needs to come, and soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If people cannot afford veterinary care for their horses, they should not own horses.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Celeste said:


> If people cannot afford veterinary care for their horses, they should not own horses.


Thank you. I think this everytime I see this kind of thread.


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

We will have it dealt with. We're doing everything we can for him here, and when the vet returns he will see her. It's not because of the holiday, she is GONE on her own vacation and has been for almost a week. I'm not going through trail and error on every suggestion, you assume I am, I have only used what seemed to me as the only one I could do that could help. I'm 17 years old and and only learned how to even apply poultices and bandages properly this year and the last, I don't have a lifetime of experience to go on. And this gelding along with the other 3 he lives with are all out on pasture and I did not see them very closely for several days, due to working 2 jobs, updating so I can go to college, and doing bandage changes daily on my own mare. I saw him one day and he was fine, obviously the 4-5 days in between was enough for this to get bad. 

And please dont tell me that we cannot afford veterinary care. We've just paid over 1600 in vet bills this summer alone, on top of what my mare alone has racked up over 3 years with cuts, abcesses and clover poisoning. our horses are well cared for. They see a farrier every 6 weeks, regular deworming, the vet would normally be here for just about anything. 

I'm not gonna try and justify myself to you anymore. Just know he's being treated and will see a vet as soon as it's possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Allison Finch said:


> It is a VERY advanced case of scratches. A case this severe can cause lameness. I have seen cases this bad before. I had a student whose horse was even worse. We had three vets working on it, even using IV drugs. Nothing worked. It was so hard getting topical meds through all the scabs.
> 
> BUT, I found something that worked WONDERS!!
> 
> ...


 External fungal diseases dont like acids and Sauerkraut is acidic so works in much the same way as vinegar does on ringworm
At least the horse you talk about was treated against the risk of bacterial infection with the IV drip and sounds as if it was isolated from the 'source' - the pasture in the case of this horse. This horse is still in the same field and so constantly at risk and every time it moves that wound is opening up even more to further hinder the healing process
As Desertwoman said - at least the scabs were some sort of protection


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

If my vet was on vacation I would call another. Unless you are on a remote island away from anyone another vet should be an option. You may have to use google to find another but it can be done.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Your bill will be a lot higher now than it would have been before it got so bad.


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

Just a final update- he saw the vet today, she figures it started as clover/ Alsike poisoning which caused the sores, and became fungal. His sores were looking better this morning, the vet took the scabs off, washed it, and applied medicated cream. We're continuing penicillin for another 2-3 days and continuing with this treatment, she expects it to be completely healed in about 1-2 weeks. He's not near as bad as many of you assumed, he's not septic, no major infection. Thanks to everyone who had helpful suggestions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

So how did the vet determine there was no major infection? The only way I know of determining infection is by a blood draw, if there is a different way please tell?


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## 4everiding (Jul 3, 2012)

Glad he's doing better...be sure to keep it clean and dry.


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

I think I'm going to trust her, considering she is a vet. There is no pus, no odor. He's on antibiotics.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm asking a serious question. What did the vet say on how they could tell there was no major infection without a blood draw?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

poppy1356 said:


> So how did the vet determine there was no major infection? The only way I know of determining infection is by a blood draw, if there is a different way please tell?


I'm assuming there is no systemic infection, which besides blood work could show in fever, lethargy, poor appetite-that kind of stuff. He does have localized infection though.

I'm glad he's on the mend.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Thank you for answering. My mare's scratches have never gotten past the irritated pink skin phase so I am not sure what else would be used to determine an infection.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

That type of clover is one of the culprits for causing extreme photosensitivity in horses so you may have to try to eradicate it from your pasture
A rise in temperature is a good indication of infection - always keep a thermometer in your horses tack box or first aid kit and know what is 'normal' for them by taking the temperature when the horse is in good health and under relaxed conditions
Since the vet has given penicillin they are obviously believing infection is present or not wanting to take any risks
There is so much granulated tissue there that the horse runs the risk of developing 'proud flesh' now
I hope that he makes a full recovery.
It seems to me that you were left in an unfair situation to deal with those horses considering your own admitted lack of experience. Its wrong that you weren't left with an emergency back up number for another vet - what if a horse had coliced or some other life threatening emergency cropped up. You need someone on speed dial - not having to spend time Googling for another vet.
If the owners do this to you again you need to be firm about things like this


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

She didn't. I asked her if he needed to be on antibiotics for an infection and she just said to continue penicillin for at least 2 more days and that he didn't need any other antibiotics.

Edit, after seeing other posts
We started him on penicillin yesterday and she advised us to continue it, but he has not shown signs of anything other than the obvious. No lethargy, lack of appetite, ect. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

So did the vet take the temperature, or did you?

Either way I hope for this horses sake he heals up without anymore pain.


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

We took it a few days ago and he didnt have a fever. Now that I think of it, I don't believe the vet took his temp today. But I think as long as he (hopefully) doesn't develop proud flesh he'll be okay. Here's a picture after the vet scrubbed and treated it.









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

This really has no relevance but what breed of horse is he? His foot is tiny lookinh in the pics. Hope he heels up nicely 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

He's quarter horse/ paint. And yes, he has very tiny feet! They tend to crack alot to, I think they're pretty thin
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Really?! Lol I thought maybe some type of pony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ljazwinski (Jul 7, 2012)

well whatever you are doing for him is obviously working well... that new picture is a BIG difference in just a few days.... keep it up


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## jingojewel (Jan 19, 2012)

Surprisingly he's actually a pretty big boy, hes about 2 and 1/2 an 14.3! The vet commented today to on how small his feet are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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