# Rights to sell?



## dmj1993 (Sep 1, 2010)

bump bump.


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

I don't think there is much she can do. Since there is no legal documentation of the agreed plan, Phil is technically the legal owner and can do with the horse as he pleases. If she can convince him to give her the horse, there is no legal ground to stand on. It would just be her word against his in court and at the police station.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Liz owns the horse, she has a bill of sale and no contract between liz and phil so its liz's horse.


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

I would agree that since she has the bill of sale, it is her horse.... she may have to get legal involved though to stop the current sale.


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Liz owns the horse, she has a bill of sale and no contract between liz and phil so its liz's horse.


With the bill of sale, she would have legal ground to stand on. But again, there isn't legal documentation on the agreement. And if Phil can produce recepits (sp?) of horse bills, and he can prove they are for the horse in question, that will cause some upheaval in a court of law. 

Her best bet is to ask for the horse (and get documentation of the meeting between them and what was said). If that won't work, go to a lawyer and discuss it.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Yeah if he had some document that said he paid for the horse he might be given the horse?


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

If she wants the horse back that bad, she should offer him the money he is asking. Just a thought.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

They both have a decent case since she has the bill of sale in her name, and he should be able to produce proof that he's paid all the bills on the animal for months.

It really could go either way, legally.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

What is "_bill of sale_" from the _*rescue*_? I always though it's an "_adoption_" paper if it's a _true _rescue. Also is the rescue informed about possible re-sell of the horse? Many rescues require you to provide them with info if the horse goes into re-sale, and they can step-in if it was a requirement on the original papers (meaning it won't let Phil to sell the horse). 

I don't think he can just go ahead and sell the horse legally. But in any case even though she has all papers he's the one who paid horse's expenses (BTW, no offense, but bad relations with co-owner is NOT a reason not to pay for the shared horse). So they have to settle that down before going somewhere else.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Kitten, when the OP says 'rescued' I'm assuming she means her friend bought the animal at auction, not got it from an actual rescue.

I don't agree that she _rescued_ the horse if she_ bought_ it, but if that's what she wants to believe to make herself feel better, that's her business. Very few horses who are called rescues actually are.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> (BTW, no offense, but bad relations with co-owner is NOT a reason not to pay for the shared horse).


Totally agree!

Is your friend willing to pay him back for what he has paid for while she was not willing to pay her share?


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## Cowgirl140ty (Jan 7, 2010)

Phil could easily have a better case then her. If he has reciepts for all his purchases for the horse. Feed, hay, farrier. He could claim she abandoned the horse. Whether she truly did or not.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Speed Racer said:


> Kitten, when the OP says 'rescued' I'm assuming she means her friend bought the animal at auction, not got it from an actual rescue.


My mistake! I re-read the original post, and I think you are right - either auction horse or bought directly from the "bad" place.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Who's property is this horse on?

Why would they be co-owners and only place the "bill of sale" in one persons name? A bill of sale doesn't really mean much to me since horses often change hands w/ nothing to document the transaction. The fact that "Phil" has been paying for this horse for months tells me that he is the true owner and he has the right to sell.

What has she been doing with this horse lately? How much does she have invested? I think it's a good "lessoned learned" moment....


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

ok if "phill" has been paying on all the bills for this horse for a while i think it should fall under the same boarding rule no payment in the last months the horse is his......so yes "phill" has the right to sell this said horse to recoop his loses, i was in the same boat a few months ago with a friend of ours.... a friend bought a horse on our sale bill at a auction, boarded at our farm and then stop paying for him (never could come up with the full board or the vet bill after his horse needed to be seen) last payment was some times around june i rehomed the horse mid july and now my self have part ownership in the horse (yes stated in a contract) with the peole whp have him now....if the horse comes back to me i have the right to sell him with out splitting the proseeds.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

If your friend wants the horse so badly, why has she let phil pay for everything the last few months? Seems like she only wants the horse now since he is selling it.
If she does want the horse and can pay for it, then tell you friend to grow up and pay for half of phils expenses that he has dished out alone for the past few months and then see if they can work something out to let her get the horse
If indeed phil has been paying and liz has not, then I don't blame phil for wanting to get his money back. Why is she only interested in the horse NOW when he is selling it and not when there was money to pay for its upkeep?
seems a bit fishy again. I think some of these posts are made to stir up trouble.
Lets hear PHils side of things.


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## dmj1993 (Sep 1, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> What is "_bill of sale_" from the _*rescue*_? I always though it's an "_adoption_" paper if it's a _true _rescue. Also is the rescue informed about possible re-sell of the horse? Many rescues require you to provide them with info if the horse goes into re-sale, and they can step-in if it was a requirement on the original papers (meaning it won't let Phil to sell the horse).
> 
> I don't think he can just go ahead and sell the horse legally. But in any case even though she has all papers he's the one who paid horse's expenses (BTW, no offense, but bad relations with co-owner is NOT a reason not to pay for the shared horse). So they have to settle that down before going somewhere else.



Yeah, she bought him from a person who was abusing him, halter was embedded in his skin, etc. Not a good situation. She calls him her rescue horse. 

And I don't agree with any of their situation really. I thought it was a bad idea from the start, but like I said, you can't tell someone what to do with their horse. I was just wondering personally where this would fall legally. -shrugs-




wyominggrandma said:


> If your friend wants the horse so badly, why has she let phil pay for everything the last few months? Seems like she only wants the horse now since he is selling it.
> If she does want the horse and can pay for it, then tell you friend to grow up and pay for half of phils expenses that he has dished out alone for the past few months and then see if they can work something out to let her get the horse
> If indeed phil has been paying and liz has not, then I don't blame phil for wanting to get his money back. Why is she only interested in the horse NOW when he is selling it and not when there was money to pay for its upkeep?
> seems a bit fishy again. I think some of these posts are made to stir up trouble.
> Lets hear PHils side of things.


Oh, I definitely don't understand why she didn't just take her horse back when they started getting into arguments. Neither party was mature about the situation AT ALL. I can see that and I'm a good 20 years younger than either of them! Just a teenager! :shock: 

I didn't want to stir up trouble. As I said before, personally as someone who has just worked with the horse and people before I was just curious where this might stand legally. It just stinks that this wonderful animal got stuck in the middle of all this silly drama and nonesense. :-x


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Frankly, I'd suggest both of them to sit down like adults and discuss the situation. That's the best way to go in regards to the animal (which already went through the drama). 

I do understand you are not the owner, can't do much in this situation, and just asking what's legal/illegal. May be just go ahead and advice the "conversation/negotiation approach" to your friend.


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## dmj1993 (Sep 1, 2010)

I have suggested it. It doesn't seem like they are capable of acting like adults though. But I do believe my friend has learned the "you don't trust anyone" rule and has learned her lesson. Unfortunately it was the hard way. =\


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> If she wants the horse back that bad, she should offer him the money he is asking. Just a thought.


That crossed my mind also. And why hasn't she been paying for her share of the care. That was not fair to Phil and since she hadn't paid she didn't keep the agreement. Maybe she should offer to pay for the last several months of care that Phil paid. May be less than what he is for sale for.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

dmj1993 said:


> I have suggested it. It doesn't seem like they are capable of acting like adults though. But I do believe my friend has learned the "you don't trust anyone" rule and has learned her lesson. Unfortunately it was the hard way. =\


Sound like your friend is the one that can't be trusted since she quit paying her share of board.


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