# osphos



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

No experience?


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## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

farmpony84 said:


> I was discussing the possibility of getting a bursa injection with my vet for Riley today and she mentioned a new drug that seems to be doing well. Riley had good success with the tildren shot but this drug, the osphos is half the cost and can be given intramuscular. Has anyone used it? I would like thoughts before ordering the drug.



Is this stuff for a navicular horse? i'd be curious how it works for your horse. My trail riding gelding has navicular,so down the road here might need to do something like this.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

It is. I saw a big improvement with the tildren but it was 1K. This one should be at least half that... I'm really considering it.


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## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

If you do the osphos would you update on how it worked for your horse. How bad is your navicular horse? My gelding was just diagnosed he comes up sore after a long ride. Its in the beginning stages had xrays done so know what i'am dealing with.

He's currently shod with pads,seems to help, starts off a bit stiff short strided for first 5 minutes of our rides.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

He was diagnosed a couple years ago. I probably need to get a new set of x-rays. It really wasn't all that bad at all when they diagnosed him (as far as x-rays go) but he was off more than sound. I gave him a lot of time off and changed the way I ride him. We tried the aluminum wedges but could not keep them on his feet at all and his hooves broke apart so I got him the Tilden shot and let him go barefoot for a few months. We then put him in a steel wedge that worked well enough but still couldn't keep them on, even with bell boots so we put him in a steel bar shoe. He does well with them.

He is sound most of the time now but I don't canter him if he feels at all short stride. He doesn't really limp per say but short strides.

I set up an appointment for the 10th of April to get the shot. From what I've read it will not be an overnight improvement, may take 30 days or more to see the difference. Looks like the cost is under $500. The shot itself is $350.


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## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

farmpony84 said:


> He was diagnosed a couple years ago. I probably need to get a new set of x-rays. It really wasn't all that bad at all when they diagnosed him (as far as x-rays go) but he was off more than sound. I gave him a lot of time off and changed the way I ride him. We tried the aluminum wedges but could not keep them on his feet at all and his hooves broke apart so I got him the Tilden shot and let him go barefoot for a few months. We then put him in a steel wedge that worked well enough but still couldn't keep them on, even with bell boots so we put him in a steel bar shoe. He does well with them.
> 
> He is sound most of the time now but I don't canter him if he feels at all short stride. He doesn't really limp per say but short strides.
> 
> I set up an appointment for the 10th of April to get the shot. From what I've read it will not be an overnight improvement, may take 30 days or more to see the difference. Looks like the cost is under $500. The shot itself is $350.



My gelding has never limped Xrays from last spring showed he had navicular but in the beginning stages. He only gets short strided, currently he's sound. 
he's shod with steel shoes and 2 degree wedge pads.

He has to be kept on a 4 week shoe cycle,if toes get to long he gets sore.
Sounds like your horse is about like mine just gets short strided. 

I will look into the osphos shot here,my horse is super reactive to vaccines so i wonder how this osphos will effect him. 

Please let me know how this works for your horse,it will be end of may before i get it done for my gelding. Thank you for posting this,i was looking for something not so costly to use for my horse. 

Was going to try tildren but cost was a huge factor in my decision,not to do it.:wink:


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

The Tilden did work wonders fairly quickly but from what I understand, it's a one time deal and what you get is what you get. Riley did well with it but it wasn't a total fix obviously.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Clinical trials show that the most significant results weren't seen until 2 months post treatment and that almost 75% of horses treated in the study had a positive response to treatment. 

Just be aware that colic can occur within 2 hours post-treatment, though it typically resolves with hand-walking.


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## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Ryle said:


> Clinical trials show that the most significant results weren't seen until 2 months post treatment and that almost 75% of horses treated in the study had a positive response to treatment.
> 
> Just be aware that colic can occur within 2 hours post-treatment, though it typically resolves with hand-walking.



Are there any injection site reactions with the osphos that you know of ?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Ryle said:


> Clinical trials show that the most significant results weren't seen until 2 months post treatment and that almost 75% of horses treated in the study had a positive response to treatment.
> 
> Just be aware that colic can occur within 2 hours post-treatment, though it typically resolves with hand-walking.


He is getting the shot first and then we are floating 3 sets of teeth. If by the time we get back around to him and he's had no reaction then we'll float his teeth as well... The vet will be at my place for a while that day. One of the reasons I'm doing it then.

With the Tildren shot he did well, no issues, but he stayed at the clinic over night.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

RiRi got his Osphos shot today! He has the farrier coming next week so... Let's see what happens!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Drugs may well be helpful/necessary, but remember they are just another palliative, like wedging heels etc. Wont actually help anything get better. 

Also keep in mind that 'beginning stages' cannot be seen on X-rays - soft tissue damage comes first, so by the time evidence is in X-rays its not 'early stages' or 'not bad'.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

loosie said:


> Drugs may well be helpful/necessary, but remember they are just another palliative, like wedging heels etc. Wont actually help anything get better.
> 
> Also keep in mind that 'beginning stages' cannot be seen on X-rays - soft tissue damage comes first, so by the time evidence is in X-rays its not 'early stages' or 'not bad'.


His x-rays are pretty clean. Minimal damage can be seen, he was officially diagnosed through blocking at the time of the x-rays. I have been working closely with my vets and my farriers since his diagnosis. We did go barefoot for a small amount of time in the beginning when he was at his worse. He was fairly lame in the beginning but after rest, good farrier work, the Tildren shot and a change in riding habits, he was sound for a year with minimal off days. He is rideable and comfortable. While he does get a special trim, he is not in a wedge or even an aluminum shoe. He is however in a steel with a bar. He does not limp but will on occasion short stride and that is why I want to go ahead and do the shot.

I see nothing wrong with doing whatever I can for my horse.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> I see nothing wrong with doing whatever I can for my horse.


Absolutely! Not saying otherwise. You need to do what you can, whether palliative like drugs, bar shoes, wedges, etc, is the only option or not. The good thing about 'navicular' is that it is very slow progressing, so IME it's generally worth attempting actual rehab, & if you find the horse is 'too far gone', you can always then resort to palliative measures.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

So... These pictures aren't the greatest but...He's sound.

He got new shoes, the same steel heart bar he's been wearing. I'm still not going crazy on the riding but I am walk trot cantering him both directions w/out issue and he's racing around the paddock like a happy horse! 

(And yes... very very bad girl w/ no helmet... bad bad bad)....


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Farmpony, any news with the shot?? I'm thinking of getting it for my mare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

We took him to a horse show where he placed 5th and 6th out of 15 in walk trot. We pulled him for canter but he could have done it. Last weekend we qualified him for the 4-H state show. The judge said "He has a cute canter". 

This girl usually rides my hunt pony. We decided to play it safe and qualified 2 horses, she'll have to decide which one she wants to take.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

So, worth it you'd say?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I would say worth it so far. You can even see from the pictures that his stride has lengthened quite a bit in just the past couple weeks. He is also trotting and cantering in the pasture which he was not doing all that much before. He's playing with the "little baby horse" as well. 

I will call the farrier for an appointment next week on his shoes. I don't want to run the risk of letting his feet get too long but so far so good....


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Excellent! I think I'm going to call the vet about it tomorrow! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Please tell us it didn't cost in the $1000 range for Tildren.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> Please tell us it didn't cost in the $1000 range for Tildren.


It's WAY cheaper! The cost of the Osphos is $200-300, plus I'm sure your vet has to make some money off of it, and then the farm call. I'm thinking it will be about $400. I could probably administer of myself if my vet will give me an script for it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I was just reading that a vet is experimenting with using a tourniquet to stop blood flow in both directions before injecting the drug. It is believed to make it more effective. The idea came from doing the same for certain antibiotics. Nice to know that women in Europe have been getting this for osteoporosis for the past 7 years.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

hmmmm, I wonder what about the tourniquet makes the product work better?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

that is interesting about the tourniquet


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

ill be talking to my vat about this too. tildren is expensive but may be worth it once fiance starts work. i might go with both shots at some point considering the amount of remodeling in my mare's xrays.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

KigerQueen said:


> ill be talking to my vat about this too. tildren is expensive but may be worth it once fiance starts work. i might go with both shots at some point considering the amount of remodeling in my mare's xrays.


I got the Tildren shot for Riley about a year or two ago. I did see a difference but I think I've seen more with the Osphos, although.... We've figured out the shoes and hoof angles, and I've changed my riding habits since then so it could be a lot of things that made the osphos show so much more in results.

I paid about 1200 for the Tildren. Riley had to stay over night at the vets to get it done but I am only comfortable giving IM shots and that one is via IV.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i will go for osphos first. i dont even ride my mare anymore. she is just going to be a pasture puff for as long as she is sound to do so.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

How often do you have to do the Osphos shot?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

SlideStop said:


> How often do you have to do the Osphos shot?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I second slidestop


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think the jury is out on that one. It's still so new. At first with the Tildren they said you might need it every six months or once a year but then after more research they realized that the second shot has very little effect so what you are getting from the first shot is pretty much what you are getting.

With this shot they think you may still get improvement with new shots.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

There is also the question of the effects of weight bearing and bone remodelling. Will additional weight assist with bone remodeling? Is it better to ride the horse for perhaps 15 min at the walk almost daily?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Our x-rays don't show degeneration. I know the Tildren shot was supposed to help. Not sure about Osphos? I was told to do a lot of long and low...


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

what if working the horse is not an option? my mare is lame more than not as of late. walking she is fine, but no trotting, she can take 4 steps fine but its downhill after the first 4.


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## Phura (Dec 4, 2012)

farmpony84 said:


> I would say worth it so far. You can even see from the pictures that his stride has lengthened quite a bit in just the past couple weeks. He is also trotting and cantering in the pasture which he was not doing all that much before. He's playing with the "little baby horse" as well.
> 
> I will call the farrier for an appointment next week on his shoes. I don't want to run the risk of letting his feet get too long but so far so good....


From what I have read about the tildren and osphos, the earlier you begin treatment, the better. If I'm understanding correctly, that's where you are. This helps prevent further bone deterioration. I would assume though this is provided we have addressed the nature of the issue with the feet, preventing further trauma to the area. Its still not a cure but sounds as though a significant breakthrough for the progression of navicular in the bone.


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## Phura (Dec 4, 2012)

SlideStop said:


> hmmmm, I wonder what about the tourniquet makes the product work better?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


From what I have read, this is when its designed to reach a targeted area. This is often done with off label use as well.


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## Phura (Dec 4, 2012)

farmpony84 said:


> I got the Tildren shot for Riley about a year or two ago. I did see a difference but I think I've seen more with the Osphos, although.... We've figured out the shoes and hoof angles, and I've changed my riding habits since then so it could be a lot of things that made the osphos show so much more in results.
> 
> I paid about 1200 for the Tildren. Riley had to stay over night at the vets to get it done but I am only comfortable giving IM shots and that one is via IV.


Again from my reading, one drug may work great for one horse and not as well for another. Overall the results are very positive but some respond better to tildren and others to osphos. Its just a matter of seeing which is best for your horse. I'm sure there's still much to learn about the 2 and the impact on horses since they are so new.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It was my understanding, the tourniquet was to hold the drug within the area for as long as possible, with time limitations. I'd have to reread.


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## Phura (Dec 4, 2012)

My boy is getting his first osphos shot tomorrow and I was wondering what to expect. I know its 3 injections over the body, and I need to monitor him 2 hrs after for potential colic. My vet gives banamine he said usually as a precaution. Will he be sore in any areas for awhile as a result of the shot? Should we avoid riding for a few? He also said he will remain on his equioxx for 30 more days and then they try to take him off...


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

My girl was fine with it. We did not give her banamine, just kept an eye on her. I believe all the horses who reacted had a mild gas colic that resolved with hand walking. I rode my mare the very next day, no sore spots or swelling. 

My only other advice is to be patient. It really took the full 2 months for my mare to make improvement, though my vet said you can start to see improvement with 3 weeks. Not going to lie, by 3 weeks didn't see much and I was very disappointed. 

I'm certainly going to do the Osphos again in 6 months. I'm curious to see if the X-rays change after a couple injections. Technically if it blocks the osteoclasts from re absorbing bone, then the osteoblasts sound be able to get in there in and lay down some new bones. Don't think there is any documented evidence, but it makes sense in my head! :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Oh yeah, another thing I did was start Isox to improve circulation to the area. Again, I figure the better the circulation the better the drug will work!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phura (Dec 4, 2012)

SlideStop said:


> Oh yeah, another thing I did was start Isox to improve circulation to the area. Again, I figure the better the circulation the better the drug will work!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah -- my vet uses isox too. He just said he wouldn't advise it in my geldings case as it seems to make a better difference in younger horses. My guy just turned 11 in April. He didn't feel he saw much improvement with age.

Thanks so much for your help! I really appreciate your feedback. This has been such a long journey and its nice to have a little more idea of what to expect!


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

privacox has made a huge difference in my 19-20 year old mare. between ground control shoes, trimming every 4 weeks and privacox my mare went from 3 legged lame to sound. luckily she has no bone damage.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Phura said:


> Yeah -- my vet uses isox too. He just said he wouldn't advise it in my geldings case as it seems to make a better difference in younger horses. My guy just turned 11 in April. He didn't feel he saw much improvement with age.
> 
> Thanks so much for your help! I really appreciate your feedback. This has been such a long journey and its nice to have a little more idea of what to expect!


With age? Your guy is only 11, hardly "aged"! It's at least worst trying, I've never heard of a horse having anything adverse happen to them from isox. If it helps, it helps. If not, no harm no foul.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

KigerQueen said:


> what if working the horse is not an option? my mare is lame more than not as of late. walking she is fine, but no trotting, she can take 4 steps fine but its downhill after the first 4.


:sad::sad: Poor girl...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Phura said:


> This helps prevent further bone deterioration. I would assume though this is provided we have addressed the nature of the issue with the feet, preventing further trauma to the area.


Absolutely & likely the reason IMO why these type measures like this work for some... because it's not about the drugs. These drugs inhibit bone absorbtion, inhibit the osteoclasts which break down bone, which happens when the body starts to adapt to changes/problems(osteoPLASTS aren't inhibited with the drugs I suppose, and if the problems that cause the changes aren't dealt with...


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