# New horse boarding question



## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to see what the demand for boarding in a particular area would be? There is a place that I would love to buy, but would probably need to board for the income. It has almost forty acres with about 30 in pasture. Already has a smaller indoor heated arena with a vet room. Stall barn currently with piped stalls, outdoor arena with piped fencing. 

I know it would be a ton of work but I think getting my young family in a farm setting would be well worth it. 

Thanks!


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Call around to barns in the area and ask how much they are asking for board and if they have any stalls available. In my area, you cant touch basic board for under $250 and until you are around the $350 mark, there are no stalls available.


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks I will certainly do that. Does anyone have any good suggestions on reading materials for starting and/or running an equine business.


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## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

Should you decide to proceed there are a few things that come to mind that NOONE should start boarding horses without: a BOARDING CONTRACT, Riding/handling waivers, EXPERIENCE with caring for horses, an excellent relationship with a vet who can mentor you on various issues, and good intuition (if you think someone is going to be a poor fit for your vision of your farm, you are probably correct). 

Drive around and look at other farms in the area: if you are near a city area but not quite "out there" in the country, there is a great liklihood that there are lots of city-folk with horses who would love to have them closer to home! If you are closer to a rural area where the acreage requirements for horse ownership/on property maintenance are low ask yourself what you have to offer that would draw people from keeping their horse at their own home, and it might make boarders hard to come by. Be ready to deal with people who think that because they pay you they bought stock in your farm (as opposed to paying for the equivalent of an "apartment" for their horse, exceptional care of the physical needs of the horses you board, and/or whatever other services you wish to provide). It is a good idea to have WHAT EXACTLY boarders are paying for listed in your contract. This is important for the instances when they decide to do whatever the heck they want and let their horse loose to wander in your backyard where your children and dogs play, where the horse could get into the road or just plain run away and you can say "Um - excuse me, that is not allowed" - they will likely pull the "It's my horse and I don't mind card" and you can point to your contract and say "Look, this is a safety issue on MY property..." and hopefully quiet the situation calmly. <<--- yes, this HAS happened to us, and the lady actually forgot she "turned her horse loose" and drove home with the horse free to roam wherever - luckily we saw the horse before it wandered out the back property gate and lost itself somewhere (or worse yet, got smacked by a car). I guess the bottom line is: how good are your customer service/complaint handling skills? 

You need to have equine horse farm liability insurance. 

Don't get me wrong - there are TONS of benefits to boarding horses (otherwise we wouldn't do it), but those are just some VERY HUGE things to consider that you may not think too much about right now...

Oh... there is a good book by Mary Ashby that you can likely find at your local TSC. Your local farm supply or book store should have a few books for you to look through and see which has the best readability (your own personal taste) and seems most like what you are seeking.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

If you didn't have an indoor, I would say don't do it. Anything indoor or covered is golden. I would make a small fortune if I had a covered which would make ALL of the boarding drama and crap I deal with, worth it.


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks for the reply! I should give some background.

I grew up on a farm which we had a couple of farm/ranch horses. I as a teenager bought & trained a 6 month old filly. Though looking back I made some mistakes. I haven't owned a horse for the last 20 years (aging my self I know). I currently have an insurance agency in which I market to equine related business. This, I suppose, is a big part of what has gotten me more interested in horses again and wanting to get back on a small farm. I think with my insurance experience, I have a pretty good understanding of risk managment. I am in Topeka, KS (population 150k) and the facility in within 20 minutes of town. This particular risk appears to me to be vacant at the this time, though the owner has posted an ad in the last week or two about boarding this fall. The only way we could afford this place currently is to derive some income with it. I think from her ad on craigslist there is about 10 stalls for stall boarding and certainly enough pasture to board 10 horses. I think you could gross $4k-$5k a month if you did that. The draw would be the proximaty to town (Topeka) and the fact that there would be both a indoor and outdoor arena for boarders to use. I would not provide any lessons or training as I would have the time or qualifications to do either. My other thought was that we would be within 20 minutes of one state park and 30-90 minutes of many others I could include the use of a two horse trailer once a quarter for boarders (subject to availability). 

I saw the book you talked about (I think) yesterday at TSC, but thought it had just a tiny section on boarding. I will admit I just thumbed through it.

And I do appreciate all advice given!


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

starlinestables said:


> If you didn't have an indoor, I would say don't do it. Anything indoor or covered is golden. I would make a small fortune if I had a covered which would make ALL of the boarding drama and crap I deal with, worth it.


 
The indoor arena says heated as well. Though the pictures make it look pretty small. I think the measurements are 36x50.

Could you give some advice and examples of the drama?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

starlinestables said:


> If you didn't have an indoor, I would say don't do it. Anything indoor or covered is golden. I would make a small fortune if I had a covered which would make ALL of the boarding drama and crap I deal with, worth it.


We have an indoor arena.

No small fortune here.


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## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

mls said:


> We have an indoor arena.
> 
> No small fortune here.


 Hahahahaha - no kidding, same here and we have a large arena. I don't think there really is a "small fortune" anywhere in the horse industry. Okay - well, maybe big time trainers and breeders and the like, but I think if you ask most people who own horse boarding facilities they are "horse poor". Also consider what and how you are going to do when you want to go on a vacation with your whole family. Just a(nother) thought.


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

Yeah, I have thought about the constraints of being 'tied' to the farm. I need to give that more thought as well.

Another question I would like to ask people is how or where they obtained financing for their farms. Here vacant pasture or grassland within 30-40 miles seems to run at least $2,000 an acre. Then you have to build house, barns, ect.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Also, if you're a boarding barn, that's a commercial operation and taxed as such. Make sure your property taxes won't be more than your mortgage payment.


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

I appreciate everyone's comments. It seems to me that the primary cost will be hay and feed. I would assume that a typical quarter horse (1,000lbs) would eat about 3 square bales a week and at most 2 50lb bags of feed. If I figure a bale of hay at $5 and feed would average maybe $20 a bag I get a total cost of $105 per month. 

I understand I will have insurance, fly spray, bedding, and salt/mineral on top of that so let's round everything up to $150 per month. 

Also it seems vet and farrier bills would be passed on to the boarders.

Also I would certainly have higher water and electric bills, but don't how I would figure cost on those. Would $20 a month per animal be sufficient? I think the going rate in this area would be $300 - $400 per month. Seems on 10 horses a profit could be made of about $1,500 to $2000. Does this sound reasonable?

What am I missing?

The second part of this equation would be time element. I would generally feed and turnout before work. Is 1/2 an per stall a reasonable (Ithink generous) time to muck a stall?

Thanks again for any insight!


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## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

If you will be stalling horses, bedding costs an arm and a leg, too. With 15 horses, our bedding bill is over $400 per month (we use baled pine shavings - like the consistency and scent). To do this all yourself while working full time will be a major strain on your personal time and family life. I can't stress this enough. What does your family want? You havn't mentioned that, at least that I recall. Also, what exactly is your horse handling experience? You need to consider whether or not you'll allow stallions. If you do, will you charge more? Whether or not you'll allow young'uns who may not be trained? What level of training do you expect the horses you handle to have? 

I'm not too familiar with Kansas, but don't you guys have pretty cold winters to the extent that you'd have to worry about water freezing over? In Mi, where it is below freezing for 3 months straight (that is a low estimate), we can count on our electricity bill being over $900 a month with tank and bucket heaters running ONLY during the times the animals are in the stall (bucket heater) and outside (tank). You can cut costs by dumping/refilling tanks throughout the day, but you'd basically need to be at the farm ALL day to make sure you don't leave your horses out without water. In the summer we are consistently about $190 a month, so it more than quadruples our bill!


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

You are forgetting to pay yourself, money to repair and fix things that break, upkeep of fences and arenas etc. There are days when I go help at the barn and the two of us working together all day can't get all the catch up stuff done.
I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying realize it's serious work on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

leonalee said:


> If you will be stalling horses, bedding costs an arm and a leg, too. With 15 horses, our bedding bill is over $400 per month (we use baled pine shavings - like the consistency and scent). To do this all yourself while working full time will be a major strain on your personal time and family life. I can't stress this enough. What does your family want? You havn't mentioned that, at least that I recall. Also, what exactly is your horse handling experience? You need to consider whether or not you'll allow stallions. If you do, will you charge more? Whether or not you'll allow young'uns who may not be trained? What level of training do you expect the horses you handle to have?
> 
> I'm not too familiar with Kansas, but don't you guys have pretty cold winters to the extent that you'd have to worry about water freezing over? In Mi, where it is below freezing for 3 months straight (that is a low estimate), we can count on our electricity bill being over $900 a month with tank and bucket heaters running ONLY during the times the animals are in the stall (bucket heater) and outside (tank). You can cut costs by dumping/refilling tanks throughout the day, but you'd basically need to be at the farm ALL day to make sure you don't leave your horses out without water. In the summer we are consistently about $190 a month, so it more than quadruples our bill!


 
Again thanks for the insight. Bedding is something I don't have a great idea what the cost would be. I know of several places tht buy it in bulk and obviously it can be bought in smaller quantities. It seems your cost is about $27 per animal a month. I think I have enough extra in my calculations to cover that. The time envolved is a major concern. I think (not always my greatest strength) that for the most part this would be work I love. As far as the family is concerned they (mostly my wife at this point) would have to be envolved. I am self employed in the insurance business now and am think of going to a 4 day work week which may help. Right now my wife is a stay at home mom that does a small daycare. The daycare would no longer exist if we did this. I have three kids that are are 8 (girl), 5 and 2 (boys). The oldest two would be in school most of the day. I grew up on a farm. It was cash crop and beef cattle. We did have horses throughout my childhood and I have raised and trained a quarter horse. Once I went to college I left the farm behind. So I am a bit worried about level of experience though I have been doing quite a bit of research. My wife thinks this is something she would enjoy though she hasn't any experience. As far as the children go, this is an experience I want to give them. Definately a big question which is one reason I am here. I would not allow any stallions at this point and we would not be providing any training. I would expect all horses to be easy to catch, train to lead and stand for vet/farrier, ect. 

It seems we would have an average of about three month that we would need to heat water or break ice. All three of those months have average highs above freezing. The are: MonthLowHighJan17.2°F37.2°F
Feb 23.0°F43.8°F
Dec 21.8°F40.9°F

My larger concern was lights and fans. I didn't even think about heaters. 

If turnout was most of the day I am positive I have plenty of hay budgeted. I have always thought a average sized quarter horse would get about 2/3's of a square bale per day. IS that an accurate statement?

Thanks again for the information and advice.


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

cakemom said:


> You are forgetting to pay yourself, money to repair and fix things that break, upkeep of fences and arenas etc. There are days when I go help at the barn and the two of us working together all day can't get all the catch up stuff done.
> I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying realize it's serious work on you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The profit would be our pay, though initially it would go back to facitlities and building a small slush fund. I have also thought about having a teen or intern to do some work. We could easily have enough space (about thirty acres of pasture with a pond ) to pasture board about 10 horses. I would limit it to 10 as I would need some of this space for turnout of the stalled horses. I think with this that would bring in an aditional revenue of $1250 per month with very little cost. 

Anyway those are my thoughts...


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## rosethorn (May 6, 2010)

I am telling you this As a boader not as an owner. Do not do the bare minimum of care for the barn. Keep it up and looking nice. And the for the acres it is commonly said that you need 1 acre for the first horse and 1/2 acre for every horse after. Have 4 different pastures so that horses can be turned out on one and let the others grass grow. Get a lot of book nutriton and handling as well as keeping horse books. Never just decide to do it and not do your research.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

rosethorn said:


> I am telling you this As a boader not as an owner. Do not do the bare minimum of care for the barn. Keep it up and looking nice. And the for the acres it is commonly said that you need 1 acre for the first horse and 1/2 acre for every horse after. Have 4 different pastures so that horses can be turned out on one and let the others grass grow. Get a lot of book nutriton and handling as well as keeping horse books. Never just decide to do it and not do your research.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
I appreciate that point of view as well. My goal would be that most of the money the initial year or so goes into renovations, upkeep and equipment. For example currently the indoor stalls are pipe fencing stalls. I would think that needs to changed to normal stalls ASAP. The outdoor arena appears to be huge while the indoor arena is rather small. I would also want to build cash reserves so quality wouldn't be effected if or when a few stalls were empty. It seems to me thatmost barn operators are saying that this isn't a way to get rich. I would agree that if this were to be my only income it would be pretty tough. With it being a secondary income I think it could make a nice little profit (granted with alot of sweat equity). The place is currently over grown and not well kept (I think it may be vacant). Saying that a few weeks ago the current owner had an ad on craigslist about boarding openings, though now the posting has been deleted by the author.

Anyway at this point I wouldn't do anything until the spring and it may not be or sale by then. I think the house and buildings are worth more than the asking price. Plus t the land is probably worth another 70-80k. I think the condition and economy are my ally at this point.


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## rcshawk (Aug 3, 2010)

Arrrh! It appears the property has sold. I was hoping given the condition and the economy it would be on the market next spring when I might have been in a better position to do something.


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