# 50 Shades of Grey (Ha! No really...Pic Heavy!)



## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I decided to make a thread for all those grey doubtfuls out there to show my own example of the progression and stages of grey. So feel free to also share yours!

This is 4 year old AQHA Aust N Flowers, or Holly, as I call her. I am posting the pictures of her from birth until now and so on to show how amazing grey can be in changing even week to week!

I'll post the pics with approximate age and month if I can remember as well as the time of day so you can make your judgments on how the sun may be affecting the picture quality.

Day 1 - Birth, Sorrel with a star and sock, obviously taken at night.









With mommy...










Approx. 12-15 months old - By now you can start to see the beginnings of the grey affecting her coat. This is also when the first appearance of her spots occured.









Here you can see the first oval spot that she still has on her left rump side. =)









Going on 2 now. Greying is progressing pretty fast now.










This was Holly on the day I went to see her for the first time. This photo was taken in November of 2011. I call this her "steel" stage. Shows the spot on her left side again. 3 years old here.









This was taken in December of 2011. She's already changing again at this point. My first experience with her shade changes. She appears more "roany" to me at this point.









This is Holly back when the grass first started coming in. So approx February of 2012. Again, taken around 3-4 pm. This is the bluer stage she went through before beginning to lighten up again.









4 years of age (May 2012), taken in the shade of the stall. These are the increased spots she's developed. You can also compare the color of her tail as opposed to her sorrel stage.










May 2012 - 4 years of age - Taken same day as the above butt view. Taken around 3 pm.









I'll take some new pics today. In the pasture yesterday I noticed that she's sporting another round of reddish/yellow hues in her coat. Never gets boring with a grey!

Anyone else have some drastic coat changes in their greys they wanna share??


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## BarrelCowgirl (Jun 4, 2012)

Her color changing is quite interesting. I love watching it. I've never seen one change so much.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I never get bored of her color, that's for sure. She has some funky things that happen and it always leaves me wondering. Those spots are my favorite at this point in time. I hope they stay! It seems some have been around since the first stages of her greying, so maybe it isn't crazy to hope!


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

Something crazy happened between ages 2 and 3!

She's gorgeous! Its also really unbelievable the transformation she went through!

I have a grey, but she's nothing like that dramatic... she was born black and is now, at 3, still pretty much black with some scattered white hairs...










Although, last spring, she went through a phase where for a few weeks she almost had a white 'frosted blanket' over her buttocks which I loved... 










... but that turned out to be just a shedding phase, and now she's back to black, alas...


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

muumi said:


> Something crazy happened between ages 2 and 3!
> 
> She's gorgeous! Its also really unbelievable the transformation she went through!
> 
> ...


Oh but I love a black horse! It is one color I've never owned, but pine over when I see a truly stunning true black.

I wouldn't be terribly sad if yours continued to transition back to black.


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

What age did you get her at? I ask this because when i look at the 2 year old and then at the 3rd old, the markings on the forehead don't match. The photo with the baby and her mom also shows a foal with no left front sock. Your grey horse has a sock in all the pics. 

I dont know much about genes so I am aware that I could be completely off base, im just wondering if maybw the told owner sent you wrong pictures?


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

LetAGrlShowU said:


> What age did you get her at? I ask this because when i look at the 2 year old and then at the 3rd old, the markings on the forehead don't match. The photo with the baby and her mom also shows a foal with no left front sock. Your grey horse has a sock in all the pics.
> 
> I dont know much about genes so I am aware that I could be completely off base, im just wondering if maybw the told owner sent you wrong pictures?


Hi! No, you are not off base at all. That is another funky thing about greys. She actually does not have any true socks. The sock you are seeing is actually just a shade of grey, as it is not pink based beneath. Her star is lost in her grey face, but if you wet her, you can see the skin there is in fact pink, but lost in the pale shade of her face.

I'm very confident all these pictures are in fact of the same horse. I posted random pictures, but one of the most solid proof is in the large oval on her butt. She has it in all her pictures from around 1 to now. It is always there no matter how she changes. =)


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Oh! I forgot to answer the original question. I've owned her since she was 3. And the breeder didn't send me these pictures, I actually pulled them from her blog with her permission. The blog goes back with entries dating back to when the mare was confirmed in foal all the way up to right before I took ownership of her. She remained with this breeder from birth until I came to take her.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

Here are some progress pics for my arabian, envi- I bought him as a two year old, the first picture is from his ad (he looks a bit darker because he was wet), and so forth. I believe he was born a bay, and when I first saw him he was a dark charcoal color with a reddish hue- he still had some bay coat left. He has been getting a lighter shade of grey pretty steadily, with flecking and some dapples. The last picture, he has dirt on him, lol- other than that he is completely grey, no color except for a bit of red from his bay coat still on his bum.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

What do you make of his butt spots? I am still a tad confused on my mare's spots. They have increased a ton, but some go back to when she was a yearling and have never left.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I have no idea what they are, I think it's just like fleabites or dapples, except larger. Greying is an erratic process of all the hairs on the horse changing, so I just chalk it up to those guys being ahead of the rest.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

As promised, here are some updated pics of Holly sporting her more reddish/yellow hue she's decided to take on. These were taken late afternoon, so the glow does add a bit, but mid day in the field she looks just as yellow. Taken today!

And yay for counter shading!


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

Would she be considered a rose grey, since she has that reddish hue?


AHA! I was just looking at this http://www.thehorseguide.com/HorseColors/Grey.htm --- could the spots be tetrarch spots?


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

Thirteen, what fascinating photo capture of your beautiful horse, Holly's transitions! Thank you for sharing this. I am just now beginning to teach myself of the genetics of horse coloring, and I find it absolutely engaging.

As well, Soenjer, your Envi is stunning! Her transitions are awesome also. 

I read that with Grays, who are the general initiating color for all eventual white horses (in most cases, anyway, per my reading; is that correct?) there is, very sadly, a 70-80% chance of them developing, by about age 15, a NON-malignant form of melanoma, which is curable, and at times may return as a malignant, organ-based carcinoma. 

Has this been either of your experiences, owning or working with Grays previously? Does this seem accurate to you?

I found it disappointing and sad, to say the least, and also confusing. Disappointing because, though color is far down on my list of importance when choosing my eventual horse, I would find owning a grey (or one who had turned nearly all white if I bought an older horse beyond the age of eight at which time they have usually completely grayed, per this researcher's commentary, which is likely for my needs) to be a great bonus.

I find the info sad for obvious reasons, but also very curious. If this IS TRUE, then on average, there is the likelihood that approximately only 20-30% of grey/white horses would live well into old age, at least without significant illness/treatment for such being necessary art some point. I would imagine that would be a reason for many breeders and horse owners to avoid this color choice when deciding on their animal?

Any input would be greatly interesting...this particular information was found on a site which Chiilaa had posted for genetic color testing...I printed out all of the information the site provided on basic color facts and ****/heterozygous traits, along with genetic anomalies which breeders screen for and why...I do hope I have properly restated this info which I read re: Grays/cancers...if not, I will reread and quote directly as not to misinform others!

Thank you again for your photos! Any input on the other issues would be wonderful! :0)


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

Back2Horseback said:


> Thirteen, what fascinating photo capture of your beautiful horse, Holly's transitions! Thank you for sharing this. I am just now beginning to teach myself of the genetics of horse coloring, and I find it absolutely engaging.
> 
> As well, Soenjer, your Envi is stunning! Her transitions are awesome also.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the compliment! I'll be sure to relay it to Envi, although I don't think he needs a bigger head, he thinks he's quite the stud already...:lol:
Envi is actually the first grey horse I've ever owned, so this is news to me- do you still have the link to the site? Like I've said I've never owned a grey before so I'm not familiar with the specifics of them, and this isn't something I want to ignore. :/


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

soenjer55 said:


> Thank you for the compliment! I'll be sure to relay it to Envi, although I don't think he needs a bigger head, he thinks he's quite the stud already...:lol:
> Envi is actually the first grey horse I've ever owned, so this is news to me- do you still have the link to the site? Like I've said I've never owned a grey before so I'm not familiar with the specifics of them, and this isn't something I want to ignore. :/


Yes...I hear you...So I can't post a "click on" link because my phone is too confusing (dur!) BUT, this is the website: Animal Genetics, and if you cannot get there from that, the company is called "Animal Genetics Incorporated".

When you get there, go to the Equine dropdown menu and from there, go to the choice "gray". Good luck to you!!


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

Well LOOKIE THERE!! I had NO IDEA that just typing the whole eAddresss would cause a clickable link! I learned even computer skills here at HF tonight! Good news. 

I do hope, on a more serious note, that you found the needed info! 

Best to y'all! :0)


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

My experience hasn't shown the carcinoma theory to be true. I've known many very healthy greys who lived well into their late 20s. They never had any melanoma problems their entire lives. In fact, the only horse I've Known to have a non-malignant melanoma - or anything at all- was a spotted saddle horse, but she lived to 27. She lived with cushing's for close to 10 years, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mammakatja (Nov 3, 2009)

Cool! You can see her star again in that first most recent picture. What a fun horse to own. Every time she sheds out is like opening a Christmas present.  And I love how that one big oval spot is always there, even during her chestnut days. Thanks for sharing these.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Cool pictures, I would love to find out what my grey mare originally looked like.

On the melanoma part. I just had this conversation with my vet last week as he checked my horse for them. The majority of grey horses do have them and you wont even know. They cause no problems unless they are internal on organs or if they are located in an area where tack would sit. Internal melanomas are rare so not something to worry about. 

There's one grey at my barn that has a melanoma on his neck. It looks like just a patch of hair is missing like a burn or something. The skin is kinda flaky but that's it, nothing to worry about. And it doesn't look like a lump or anything. We all just thought it was an old injury where hair never came back.

Edit: my mare is 19 and has been declared to be free of any melanomas.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Thank you! I'm more than happy to post pics of my girl in all her stages. 

To aswer a couple of questions, I'm not sure sure about the "rose" grey. I've heard mixed things on it. I've heard some say that all greys go through the rose stage and I've heard them actively described as a color "rose grey".

I'm also not sure about the tetrarch spots. I DID look into that, and that's exactly what they appear like. Thus far, they are staying. Even in her winter coat, her big butt oval was very visible.

And thank you so much for all your feedback and comments! I love Holly to death and I LOVE watching her go through these phases and changes in her coat. I was especially surprised to see a bit of a countershaded faux dorsal peeking through as if to validate all the talk we had on the other thread about grey producing primitive markings.

I've never heard much on the melanoma side of greys. I did own a 19 year old "white" grey and he never had such problems. But I will definitely read up on it and educate myself! As of now, not as educated on it, I wouldn't let it stop you from owning your dream grey. I've had quite a few friends with greys, and none had problems with melanomas (or perhaps as the comment above suggests, just never caused complications) =)

I'll take some more pics today since everyone seems to enjoy them!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I really like when her star comes through. I think it has blown out some with her greying face, becoming bigger than her foal star. It looks to cover most of her forehead now with the surrounding light hairs.

And that spot is my absolute favorite. On the same side she has that spot and a tiny black oval as well. I pet her there all the time to mess with her spots. lol


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> Cool pictures, I would love to find out what my grey mare originally looked like.
> 
> On the melanoma part. I just had this conversation with my vet last week as he checked my horse for them. The majority of grey horses do have them and you wont even know. They cause no problems unless they are internal on organs or if they are located in an area where tack would sit. Internal melanomas are rare so not something to worry about.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the info! Very interesting and also quite reassuring, as well as certainly being great that your horse is free from such!! :wink:

I would imagine with owners who are very involved with their horses, are diligent, as are you, clearly, with vet checks every so often for s/s, who look at them closely, grooming often, use appropriate sun protection/sunscreen, these horses will most often fall into the category of this who are less likely to develop melanoma.

Just a guess...


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Back2Horseback said:


> Thank you for the info! Very interesting and also quite reassuring, as well as certainly being great that your horse is free from such!! :wink:
> 
> I would imagine with owners who are very involved with their horses, are diligent, as are you, clearly, with vet checks every so often for s/s, who look at them closely, grooming often, use appropriate sun protection/sunscreen, these horses will most often fall into the category of this who are less likely to develop melanoma.
> 
> Just a guess...


 
Well actually my mare was a very emaciated neglected rescue horse so it is purely luck she has none. But now that I have her I check her over daily for any changes. I had no idea about any of this until after I adopted her. The only thing I know is that greys have more sensitive skin which is why they are more susceptable to these conditions. 

She does wear sunscreen on her pink nose and she hates the stuff but she has decided it's better to be pampered then ignored so she puts up with everything I do :lol:

The only downside to greys is keeping them clean. Although since the OP's horse isn't 'white' yet she has no need to worry about that. Actually the perfect colors right now. Wish my mare had more natural brown than mud brown.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Haha. You're right! I never have to worry about keeping her clean. She is a pretty clean horse by nature. I've seen her go through the pond once and come out pretty sandy. But she doesn't seem to enjoy rolling or going through mud much.

I can't even imagine her turning white...I hope to have many years between to experience all her shades before she whitens up. =D


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

So much good information on here, thanks guys!!
Out of curiosity, Envi has no pink skin- will his skin still be sensitive just because he is a grey? Should I be worried about him? I don't put on sunscreen or anything...

ThirteenAcres, I know how you feel- Envi's legs are really greying fast now, it's going to be weird seeing him as a white horse eventually. He doesn't seem to like to roll either, though... Maybe we're on to something? lol.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Haven't updated in a while, so I thought I'd show Miss Holly's 2013 color progression. Sorry if the pics are kind of large!

Here is the last pic I have before she started shedding out her winter coat of this year. You can definitely see how red her winter coat was.










A little lingering winter hair:









A week later:









Last week:


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

A lot of greys get melanomas by the time they get in there late teens often times they are not malignant. I often see greys in there mid twenties that have malignant melanoma but not all. I know a 25 year old grey that still competes in barrels and roping and is absolutely gorgeous head to toe you'd never know the horse was old unless the owner told you and the mare even has malignant melanoma on her throat. So even if your grey gets melanoma it's not necessarily something to be alarmed about. Like I said mostly greys even with melanoma live as long as horses who are not as prone to cancer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

She's so much lighter, wow... Still has that pretty red though, lucky you. It looks like all the darkest parts aren't grey like Envi's, they look more red (on her legs, etc.)


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

I have heard that greys are at a higher risk of developing melanoma. Out of the three "white" greys we had growing up, only one, who was a lease, ended up with malignant melanoma. The other died of an unrelated condition and the last, my sister's horse, is still kicking at 29 years old.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Thirteen acres, do you believe your mare's mane turned from bright red to black in ONE year?

Don't mean to be snarky.....just asking.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Actually I believe it was closer to 2 years between the ages of 18 months and 3 years old that she did most of the greying that overtook the red, though even today the red base does come up often unexpectedly (such as the 2012-2013 winter coat).

What are you questioning, though?


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

greentree said:


> Thirteen acres, do you believe your mare's mane turned from bright red to black in ONE year?
> 
> Don't mean to be snarky.....just asking.


I don't think it's impossible. My old sorrel mare's mane would bleach out to white in summer but by January had no sign of sun bleaching and had grown out back to it's usual orange shade again.


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

Your horse is beautiful!! 

Edit: Crap, forgot to quote the picture. Whoops.


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## maddiemaisie (Jul 31, 2009)

One of my grey mares from birth to now (4 years) The biggest change i've noticed recently is how dark her mane has gone!


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

^^	4th and 6th pics from top to bottom are UNBELIEVABLY GORGEOUS. BEAUTIFUL girl...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, Dobe is my first experience with a gray horse and he had already grayed when I got him...though his shade has changed every year. I'm told that he was a buckskin when he was captured, but I'm beginning to wonder if he might have actually been a palomino and the darkening of the legs/mane/tail done by the gray gene made them list him as a buckskin. Maybe someday I'll have him tested.

This is the only decent picture I have of him as a 3 year old where his color is actually visible.


Here he was at age 4. Still dark, but starting to dapple instead of just the slatey steel gray color.


Here he is at age 7. He's right in the middle of the dapple stage and you can really see that his bloodmark on the side of his face is starting to stand out.


Here he is at 8, leaning less toward dapple and more toward white :?


And here he is last year, almost completely white at the age of 10.


Though he does seem to be getting more and more yellow fleabites as he gets older.


I haven't gotten any good pictures of him all slicked off this year because, well, he _isn't_ slicked off yet. Funky weather has led to funky shedding patterns.

As for the melanoma thing, most gray horses will get them at some point in their lives. For some reason, they are most common around the genitalia and underneath the tail. Most of the time, they are nothing more than a nuisance or an aesthetic problem and cause no actual health issues.

Dobe developed his first at age 7 and developed another shortly after that. I had both surgically removed with no complications, but he has since begun to develop more at random places on his body. They don't cause him pain, but I plan to keep having them removed as there are a couple that are beginning to interfere with tack. The ones he gets are little hard lumps that just slowly grow over time. The first 2 that I had removed, one was the size of a shooter marble and the other was slightly smaller. The ones he's got now vary from the size of a BB to the size of a regular marble. I am currently tracking 5 that need removed; 2 on the side of his head, one on his back, and 2 on the top of his rump.


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

Thank you for posting this I love seeing the stages of grey 
You should really keep adding to this everytime she changes


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Gamer at birth:









at 10 days old:









at 3 months old:









at 2 years old (with her pesky younger brother):









at 4 years old:









at 6 years old (now):


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

smrobs, do the melanoma spots feel like little round marbles? If so, I think my little Envi has a few... There's one round, hard little lump on his back right below the end of his withers, which, if it is melanoma, will have to be removed. He has a couple other little ones but they're not in places that would bother him.
Now for a little color (or, more accurately, lack of color) update! Here's a pretty recent picture of him, maybe from last month- he was drying after a bath here so he's actually a bit lighter than this. Unfortunately what little dapples he had have been replaced with freckles...  I'm not gonna lie, I'm a bit jealous seeing all the pretty grey colors on here with nice dapples. Right now, he just looks mottled... :lol:


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Melanoma usually feels like little round marbles under the skin unless it has spread and grown larger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Well, Dobe is my first experience with a gray horse and he had already grayed when I got him...though his shade has changed every year. I'm told that he was a buckskin when he was captured, but I'm beginning to wonder if he might have actually been a palomino and the darkening of the legs/mane/tail done by the gray gene made them list him as a buckskin. Maybe someday I'll have him tested.
> 
> This is the only decent picture I have of him as a 3 year old where his color is actually visible.
> 
> ...


You know I'm in love with your horses, right? I think yours may be my favorite on the forum. =P Btw, how is the new filly coming along? She's GORGEOUS.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I'll keep updating this as time goes by. I've noticed this year that she's a lot lighter, or so it seems. She has had an amazing growth spurt in the past year and is quite thick and lovely. Of course I'm a rather biased horse mommy. =P


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Soenjer, yes, they do feel like little marbles, though his tend to flatten out a bit as they get bigger...so they are more like squished marbles LOL.

Thirteenacres, thank you . She's doing really well, just enjoying her playtime with John and Taz and eating until her heart's content.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

What a fun thread! Here is Zane from birth to almost 3 years (he will be 3 in July).

You know those spots some of the grays get on their rumps......are they the start of dapples? Or are they just random white spots? Zane is starting to get a few on his rump and I am hoping they are a sign he will dapple. :lol:


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I know that there are many names for the spots that greys get but as far as I've found they are not proven to be because of any genetic trait. Dapples are typically just a sign of perfect health rather than a pattern, but I know that my girl has had her one butt spot since she started greying and they just keep popping up more and more as time goes by. I love her butt spot so much. haha


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Here are the loveable butt spots!


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