# Thoughts on this? Linda Parelli and the blind horse.



## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Let's just say that I have ZERO respect for her. That is not how that horse should have been treated.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

It has become a famous video. This is a picture Parelli uses to attract folks:










Not a fan.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

By wiggling the rope she is telling the horse to back.
I can get my horses to do that - but all I have to do is move my wrist because hrough practice and teaching of the *correct* way to do this it is actually a very helpful technique.

I believe she is also trying to teach the horse respect.

When she yanks on his leadrope hard, she is trying to get his head facing her. The horse should be straight bakcing, not sidewways.

it is a good technique, but the way Linda does it is much too harsh.
I do their groundwork techniques only, and I do them correctly.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"It is a good technique..."

What makes it superior to saying "Back" and maybe tugging lightly back on the lead rope or putting a hand against the horse's chest?

The trainer I hired to work with Mia did a great job except she wanted Mia to back when she shook the lead rope. All it accomplished was an angry, confused horse...but the local trainer then responded by saying, "Well, if she backs on a voice command already...".

Most of the folks I know use the shaking rope cue, but I'll be darned if anyone has ever been able to tell me WHY they like it. I'm not picking a fight. I genuinely have never had anyone who could tell me WHY it is a good cue for the horse to know.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

backing with the leadline and a horse, you keep your feet still and make the horse move away from you. It shows that the horse respects you and lsitens to you. 
This can help get the horses attention on you and do what you ask.
Also if the horse is crowding you and you are talking to someone, you don't have to move your feet to make the horse stop crowding you, but instead wiggle the leadrope so the horse moves away and you can still talk to the person - just as an example.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Interesting. I don't think I'll adopt the technique - I don't think it has anything to do with respect - but I thank you for the explanation. It is the first one I've ever gotten!


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

If that technique works for your horse, then I don't see a reason not to use it.

But... in this video, the horse clearly doesn't understand what's being asked of him, and Linda doesn't seem to be doing anything to address that part of the situation. I'm really not a fan of the Parellis. 

Gator responds to pressure and the word "back" just fine. I don't think I'll go wiggling any ropes anytime soon xD


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it is a terrible example of throwing a horse into a Mulligan's Stew of loud, sloppy requests with pressure, no meaningful releases and a very confused and ultimately dulled out horse. That horse will soon have NO idea what any feel on that leadline means, and will likely have about the same amount of feel to the reins or bit.

It's not that 'wiggling' the rope to ask for a back is or is not a good method. it's that, one has to remember to ask small, then get bigger, and look for the smallest try you can reward, and build on THAT. then you build in "feel" to the leadline. Smacking it up against the jaw (and this with a heavy metal chip on it, too) is your "demand", and if you use it over and over, without looking for a correct response, even if it's tiny, to reward and go back to a whisper, you make your horse learn to tolerate incessant shouting. then, you have an angry and dull horse.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Yea, I frogot to mention that too.
When the horse steps back, you should give release. Unless he does something he know he souldn't have done, then you can get big and not stop for a few steps.

I always make sure I don't have hardware if I end up having to get to that stage. If there is hardware and I do have to get to the biggest stage, then I will only do it once or twice, then back down a stage so he knows he should back and listen, but not as to hurt him at all.


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

On my phone, so I can't quote, but Amberly, I understand what she is trying yo achieve - I myself used these methods as part of my degree in Equine Science, but I think she is utilising them terribly. You say when she yanks the leadrope, she is asking the horse to face her - do why then does she give it a slap on the face, making it turn away again - two totally conflicting instructions, no?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the reason a person would ask a horse to face them, is to get their attention, both eyes, so that you can now send their feet somewhere. you want their mind on your before you try to move their feet. it does not mean you have to snap a lead line to get their mind on you. it depends on how hard the hrose is focussed outwardly, and what you tried before the snap in order to ask them to focus on you.
as I said, that video shows absolutely NO finesse , and the makings of a very confused horse. please do not use this as an example of how a firm flip of the lead line might be used in a productive manner.


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

I totally agree with you Tiny - I understand how that works, and like I've said, I've used similar methods myself. But, like you, I think this video is a horrendous example of methods that can be used well, but seem to have been utilised in a very coarse way that seem to have no benefit to the horse in question. A sharp flick of the lead can be used to redirect the attention to you, but she seems to just going round in circles, literally and figuritively.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## showjumperachel (Jul 13, 2013)

IMHO, that horse was confused from the beginning. When the guy asked the horse to back he gave no release or praise when the horse did what he was asking. 

I wouldn't let either of those people get within a 10 mile radius of my horse.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^Exactly. The horse didn't know what he was being asked, and so in response the man just asked harder.


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## madyasmkey (Jan 26, 2014)

I found this somehow. I personally don't think it excuses how the horse was treated at all and if she was given the wrong horse I'd see the house perfectly justified to defend himself. Not saying it would be right but I can see it ending up that if that horse did lash back it would be destroyed (depending on the owner). I can't really fermenter exactly the technique I used to teach Ginny to back up, I think I used a mixture of pressure points but I can now simply point at her and say "back up" and she will do it.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

I personally am not a fan of any clinician. Not to say they don't start out with good ideas or methods but more often then not, they are moved into "fast fixes" through either greed or pressure to stay in the spot light or succeed in front of the audience. 

I think in the case of Linda, she is trying to cash in on her husbands name. What I saw in the video was an example of why I don't like the "followers" of these clinicians. You can have a guy (Parelli in this case) who does some good things with horses and maybe teaches a few folks his ways. All of a sudden he is in the spotlight trying to make big bucks and people are jumping off cliffs because this now famous person said so. He might have had great ideas to start but people learn bits and pieces and think they are the new masters of the training world because they sat through a clinic, bought a book or watched a DVD. Heck, they even bought the special rope, halter and whip so they KNOW how to train all horses now. 

Clearly if this mans wife doesn't get it, there are hundred of others out there that have not quite got it down pat either. Common sense really goes a long way in horse training and sadly, once some people watch the DVD, that seems to go out the window.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

videos that I have seen of Linda show that she has improved a lot in the last 10 years.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

IndiesaurusRex said:


> I'm just trying to understand Linda's reasoning for acting the way she does here - I can't see how what she is doing can be beneficial to this horse whatsoever. The horse evidently has no idea what is going on and what he is being asked, and yet she just keeps upping the ante rather than adapting her methods.


...And if YOU, a bigger brained human, who presumably has a bit of a clue about horses yourself doesn't get what she's doing, what hope has the horse??:evil::evil:

Yes, this has been 'done' before on this forum. IMO this is one eg. that they have moved far & away from the good *principles* Parelli used to teach. That this is an eg of instruction to a beginner student just makes me ill.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Linda should know that to get a horse to look at you, the handler,while facing it, is to turn your head the opposite way. The horse will bring it's head back. I've done this many times because at liberty there is no line and no halter.


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## SketchyHorse (May 14, 2012)

I couldn't even watch the entire video I was so disgusted with the first handler & then Linda herself. And it has nothing to do with her being a Parelli or her husband etc. It was just overall bad horse handling. I completely understand what she was _trying_ to do as my farrier has been introducing me to some different NH methods. We do something similar with my little filly for backing up, more of a "push" with the rope than wiggling it, and it works wonderfully. She's picked up on it to the point where I can keep "asking" until she goes where I want her to because we _started slow with a hoof at a time._ I also indepently work her front & back before combining them. 

This was just disgusting though. And that's poor horse's jaw :/


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## Paradise (Jun 28, 2012)

Holy Jesus mother of god are you serious??

These are professionals. This is not a joke? I have to ask, What is the mortality rate amongst Parelli students when their horses finally get sick of the BS?

I made it to 2:53. The first and last Parelli instructional video I will ever watch. 

Here's an idea: let's put her on the end of that rope and give her a repeat taste of her own medicine. Now that I WOULD watch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

I want my horse to back up more based on feel than a wiggle in a lead rope. He will back up from both a wiggle, or just a certain energy. Theoretically, if I broke a wrist/arm/ something to where wiggling for a back was rendered impossible, I still want to be able to back my horse up. I can tell my horse to stop, back and send in either direction with overall body language and feel- an untrained eye would think I was just standing there, and that's how I want it. 

With this horse, it's apparent something to the side of the screen is distracting him majorly, what I would have done is work on sending him either way, changing up his direction every second if necessary. Bending and tracking up into his outside fore track to supple his body and eventually his brain. I have a nutter of a horse (sometimes) I've seen him act exactly as this one has and these techniques got him slow and listening in no time. 

Gain respect for the persons space from his shoulder. As Linda is working with him, she has moments of moving his hindquarters to disengage, but the horse is simply moving his shoulders into her as he does this. This is why she keeps having problems getting him to move his shoulder away from her when she deliberately tries to ask for it- he has already learned that he can step in her space like that and will not be corrected for it. 

An overall fail by LP with no use of proper pressure/release and no reading/ interpreting the horses body language in response to her own.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

This is just reaffirming why I think all of the horses I have seen belonging to Parelli disciples were 'ill' and just downright mad all the time. I think they get picked at and pecked at until they just get ****ed at people in general. When we help Newbies find horses for them and their kids, we steer them as far away from a 'Parelli' horse as we can.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Having seen this video numerous times, her lack of skills still amazes me. However, this is the first time I ever heard that this horse had ANY vision issues. Not sure where that info came from?


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Having seen this video numerous times, her lack of skills still amazes me. However, this is the first time I ever heard that this horse had ANY vision issues. Not sure where that info came from?


If you look carefully, you can see that on his near side he has no eye at all. I have a friend who's gelding was the same, which is why I noticed it.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

We all know that when the head is elevated the horse is on high alert. The thinking processes have stopped, and his body is readying for flight or fight. Linda is lucky he didn't turn on her. If one starts a horse at liberty, not the mindless circles to get the join up but keeping the energy low to keep the horse thinking.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

amberly said:


> backing with the leadline and a horse, you keep your feet still and make the horse move away from you. It shows that the horse respects you and lsitens to you.
> This can help get the horses attention on you and do what you ask.
> Also if the horse is crowding you and you are talking to someone, you don't have to move your feet to make the horse stop crowding you, but instead wiggle the leadrope so the horse moves away and you can still talk to the person - just as an example.



Wrong. 

It shows nothing but a foolish movement on human's part.

And doesn't equal respect either. 

I can stand all day long and talk to someone and the horse never crowds me. Horses are perfectly capable of that.

Also not something that translates well at all to show horses, of any discipline. And would get you run off at a training barn too.

Horses should be taught to back by light pressure on nose, tipping nose to chest with light as feather touch, western folks are more prone to work off of chest it seems, but either way, accompanied by a voice command, will work and will get horse used to shifting weight to back end.

The WWJJWHACK method of backing, is a stupid gimmick thought up by fools, who should have it done to them.

Most of the worst problem horses I have come across, are owned by fans of these fools.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am not advocated a whole bunch of wiggle wiggle whack whack in use to get a hrose to back up, but being able to get a horse to back away, without having to actaully be right there on his face or chest DOES have value.
once the hrose knows to back up from a feel on the rope, you can move him back away from you , even if he is already out of physical reach of your hands.
this is useful and translates into sending the horse away, or moving him through a gate or backing him out of a trailer or out of a stall or . ?

But, it only works if the horse has an awareness of that feel on the rope, and that only works if the handler has trained him properly.


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## Paradise (Jun 28, 2012)

How you choose to back your horse up is your own choice. The idea behind it isn't what bothers me about this. A horse can be trained to do just about anything.

What is wrong with this is the complete and utter lack of knowledge being usedto teach this horse a fairly simple concept. That horse is upset and confused and a half trained chimp would be able to see that.

That horse is a saint, actually, for tolerating that like it is.

IMO that is as close to 'abusing' a horse as you can get short of picking up a 2x4 and going at it for no reason. Grill me for it, go ahead, but what is that horse learning besides resentment, confusion and fear? It certainly isn't learning to back up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I can't help but wonder why the owner didn't stop her. Whacking the jaw with that big clip is a good way to fracture it.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Paradise said:


> How you choose to back your horse up is your own choice. The idea behind it isn't what bothers me about this. A horse can be trained to do just about anything.
> 
> What is wrong with this is the complete and utter lack of knowledge being usedto teach this horse a fairly simple concept. That horse is upset and confused and a half trained chimp would be able to see that.
> 
> ...


Actually, I agree with this. The worst thing for me though, is that not only is she confusing the crap out of this horse and doing more harm then good, but she is teaching another person to do the same. Again, this is why I am not a fan of the clinicians. The blind followers will pick stuff up (not really getting it) and they will go home and start messing up their horse.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Saddlebag said:


> I can't help but wonder why the owner didn't stop her. Whacking the jaw with that big clip is a good way to fracture it.


Because the owner is apparently the beginner guy in the start of the vid - he is a novice, learning from the 'pro'... which doesn't leave him much hope. 



> How you choose to back your horse up is your own choice. The idea behind it isn't what bothers me about this. A horse can be trained to do just about anything.
> 
> What is wrong with this is the complete and utter lack of knowledge being usedto teach this horse a fairly simple concept. That horse is upset and confused and a half trained chimp would be able to see that.


Agree thoroughly. Perhaps it was because it was so long ago & I've forgotten the details(I wouldn't use now) of how it was taught to me. Don't have a prob with using a rope wiggle as a cue, or even the occasional snap of the leadrope to 'get attention' but I saw a sorry lesson recently, where a beginner was being instructed... not sure... by a recently qualified PNH instructor. It didn't look much different to the vid we're discussing, come to think of it, except at least the owner wasn't being as forceful & confrontational as LP.

Cherie, your experience interests me, re Parelli horses, because I've heard this before, just never personally experienced it - met many 'Parelli' horses in my travels, but I don't know many real 'disciples', just many who use the principles... but have brains in their heads to think about what they're doing... 

I thought I did very well not to LOL the other day though, when invited on a ride with above mentioned Parelli instructor & she said anywhere but bridges, because her horse 'didn't do them' - is afraid of bridges!! Ended up deciding I'd probably just be frustrated & make enemies if I went, so I rode elsewhere with someone else... & we just happened to do about 10 foot bridges of various types & heights, even tho her green horse had never experienced one before! ...Mind you, I can't ride over narrow ones with low handrails myself, had to get off & walk those... cos I'm a bit afraid of heights & I make my horse nervous!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

It was all a total cluster. My horses all know how to back with the wiggle…..but they also know other ways. I have no issue with this theory at all. What I take issue is that the horse was so beyond having any vague idea of what they wanted….and they just kept at it. They horse actually took a couple of steps back in the beginning, but, since he was not rewarded in any sort of way for his effort, he became totally befuddled. I really cannot stand LP. I have seen him have some good moments….her on the other hand…..not so much.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> I really cannot stand LP. I have seen him have some good moments….her on the other hand…..not so much.


I've also seen her on a training vid, supposedly teaching people the importance of timing, in a round pen with a horse.... yelling to someone outside something like 'quick, quick, did you see what he did, give me a treat for him quick, because I don't want to miss the moment!':shock::?: :-( :evil:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Her timing in that video was abominable. No other word for it.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I couldn't watch the whole thing. Where was the release? Why would you continue doing this? There is no excuse for this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## danny67 (Nov 27, 2012)

IndiesaurusRex said:


> ...- the Parelli's have certainly marketed some good ideas.


ROFL, you said marketed.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Just keep in mind that the video is I believe pretty old now. I think its about 12 years old now, I'm just guesstimating though. Also it's unusual to most people to work with anything that is blind or half blind. I think in this video Linda was still very 'do it until it works', as are a lot of us when we first learn a new technique.... Their methods still had some learning and growing to do as well, and just like the rest of us Linda did only what she knew how to do. Even though it was definitely the wrong thing to do, I'm not going to fault her for it, because in the end she learned from the experience and has improved her techniques. Even though I don't like what she did in this video, I still like to learn things from her because she has since improved herself and furthered & bettered her knowledge. The only trainers out there that I don't actually like are the ones who aren't willing to adapt and expand their knowledge


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

danny67 said:


> ROFL, you said marketed.


Ezacly right!:lol: Can't blame him for that though, that he's very successfully marketed the ideas he has learned.



> Linda was still very 'do it until it works', as are a lot of us when we first learn a new technique.... Their methods still had some learning and growing to do as well, and just like the rest of us Linda did only what she knew how to do. Even though it was definitely the wrong thing to do, I'm not going to fault her for it, because in the end she learned from the experience and has improved her techniques.


If that vid was 12 years old, Linda was by no means new to the 'game'. She was around - albeit not teaching much - when I was into PNH over 20 years ago. I agree with you that growing & evolving our knowledge & skill is of course good & it's great (if) she's learned much better now(not that it'd take much to be better than that eg) but that doesn't change how terrible the 'lesson' was(& others I've seen), and that they saw fit to include them on a training DVD, supposedly teaching general tactics to beginners.


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## PastureSongs (May 27, 2013)

Disclaimer: did not read the comments.

This video just about makes me colic.

Everything about it is pathetic.


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## Rosebit78 (Mar 26, 2014)

I haven't been able to understand this video either. I really think she was showing off. I understand the basic idea of what she is doing, but the horse doesn't know, and that is the important part. He isn't acting out he is just very confused. 
I like some of the Parelli techniques, but this is just sad to me. She should really know better than that. I will shake the rope at my stallion, if he is acting up, but I use a rope cowboy halter so there is nothing to hurt him, it just gets his attention back on me. He also understands me though, so he does what he should and we are back on track. If he didn't understand there would be no point.


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## honeyhorses (Mar 26, 2014)

I think that Linda did the right thing in this video, at the beginning the horse wasn't given an answer but that was the student and not Linda. When Linda had the horse she was giving him an answer and she was getting very big and not giving an answer right away but it looked like the horse new better and already new how to back up with a wiggle (if he was just learning to back up then im sure Linda would have used her phases more also I'm sure she would have given the horse an answer right when he stepped back)
I was looking at the results and the results i saw was a horse paying more attention to Linda then he was before and the horse was backing up better.
also i think some of you might be taking pity on the horse because he is a one- eyed horse (would you be reacting the same if he had both eyes?) and Linda was doing everything where the horse could see her also one-eyed horses can do the same as any other horse, they shouldn't be treated differently. (remember i said some of you, I don't want anyone to take this personally so just a reminder)
One last thing, some of you said your horse can back up with their chest, nose, voice cues or hand movements but a horse should be able to back up with *everything* that includes nose, rope wiggling, chest, tail, hand movement, voice cues and anything else you can think of. The hand cues is the driving game and the other things are porcupine, I recently asked a trainer why we need to teach the porcupine game if a horse can already do the driving game perfectly and she had a really good explanation, Ill try my best to explain it to you guess but I forget what the wording of her explanation was (she is super good at explaining, saying and wording things but I am not) anyway she said something like - they are two different games so they are separate and all the games are important for a horse to know. you will need to rely on the porcupine game as much as you will rely on the driving game - sorry if that doesn't make sense I don't really know how to explain it I wish i remembered how the trainer explained it.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

She dose not understand timing at all. You release at the slightest try. As soon as he took 1 step back they should have released the pressure. Then ask for two steps and so on. He tried and she jumped all over him. It was a mess and this is the reason most real trainers laugh at them. She was punishing the horse, and he was responding to the punishment. Punishment decreases behavior, but it also increases avoidance and that horse was trying to avoid her. He was confused as he was not given release when he tried to find the answer, he was just being punished. So he went to avoidance by refusing to look at her and trying to find a way out of the situation (and not paying attention at that point because he was already looking for escape). This is not hard stuff, this is psychology 101! If she did something like that to my horse I think I may end up in jail for assault...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Nope, nothing to do with the horse having one eye IMO. Horses with one eye tend to cope just fine with most things IME.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

What happened here was that Linda was out of her league with this horse, she let it go too far, THEN started the abuse because she had NO CLUE how to end it correctly and fix it. So let's beat on the horse awhile because it's HER fault she got in that position to begin with. Another example of lack of training skills and ego getting in the way in front of a camera. She's a joke.....


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## prillyg (Sep 22, 2013)

yes, linda was wrong in how she handled this horse. The horse was confused and didn't know what she was asking. When something isn't working, to keep doing the same thing over and over is called insane.


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## danny67 (Nov 27, 2012)

I bet she wishes this video would go away. lolz


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

^LOL, I would if I were here. This is an example from a "do's and don'ts" clinic....and this is a HUGE don't.


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

"I bet she wishes this video would go away. Lolz"

But then... why put it on an instructional video? I can understand making a mistake with horses, we all do, and I think this mistake was a biggie, but she and Pat must have felt it was okay, cause... there it is. Big as life and twice as ugly.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^THAT is the Big Problem IMO, that it's only since the 'flak' that she probably wants it to 'go away'. Especially since it's on a training video. Have they ever said anything about it, or is it still just accepted by them...?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

There was a half-hearted lame excuse for what she did. She's sitting cozied up to Pat in a short video.


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