# Stall mats, no bedding , wet stall



## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

Private home, one person taking care of their horse and mine. 
Caretaker put down solid mats in the stalls, over clay - based soil. NO BEDDING.
Doesn't seem to listen to the farrier or myself asking for bedding/shavings to be placed over the mats, no idea why.
Mats are frequently wet with urine, and stool. Wet soil under the mats. Stalls not cleaned every day, maybe every 2nd to 3rd day. 
My horse is kept in the stall in rainy weather, and cold weather at night. This is because the other younger horse dominates the run- in barn and keeps my older horse out in the bad weather. So my horse will end up laying down in mud /wet ground if he is not in the stall. Yet, when kept in the stall, the mat- only stalls get wet with urine and stool.
Does anyone else know the reasoning for mats and no bedding? Smells of ammonia often, and they use some kind of stall dry material that is sprinkled down, then swept up. That's the extent of the cleaning of the mats. Still mushy wet under the mats. 
Farrier diagnosed thrush in my horses hoofs the last 2 visits, and this last time he was lame from the thrush/infection and had to be put on Bute. He is better now that it hasn't rained recently while using antifungal product in hoofs. I'm afraid this is a vicious cycle. 
Asked barn owner to put down shavings, said they were going to do it, but nothing now after 2 weeks. 
Help!


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## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

By the way, I put this out here, because I am thinking of moving my horse very soon, for this reason, and want feedback from other people, thanks .


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Last winter my horse was boarded in a private barn that used shavings very sparingly. They also used the powdered stuff to soak up urine stains. It wasn't nearly as bad as what you're describing, but I hated it. My horse would always have big orange and brown stains on him (he's grey). They didn't use more bedding because of cost. 

I finished my barn in the spring and now have stall mats plus a thick (4-6") layer of pellets. 

Can you provide the bedding? If you bring in a few bags a week, will they use it? Clearly, this is bad for your horse and an unacceptable practice in my opinion. I'd be moving if it doesn't change. The ammonia is very bad for them, you'll never be able to keep him clean and his feet will continue to suffer.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

My mother does not use bedding in the runout stalls, but they are cleaned at least once a day if not more and any wet spots get shavings put on them, then cleaned out once the wet is absorbed. The few times the horses are shut in the stalls she puts down at least enough bedding to absorb any urine. Not my first choice but it works out fine.

That situation sounds unacceptable and I would honestly be looking for another place to keep your horse...yesterday.

Is it a runout that he shares with the other horse? If he has his own spot I would buy your own shavings and start putting them in...until you find another place.

After having a paying (I assume) boarder and an equine professional tell them to change?

The stalls don't get cleaned until 3 days AND your horse is shut in? Even with bedding that is neglect/abuse.

Better to lay down in the mud...far better...

Thrush is the least of your concerns... I would give them an ultimatum- shavings or your notice. Honestly I wouldn't even bother at this point I'd just leave, but if it's otherwise a nice place and you're happy then definitely give them the ultimatum.

I honestly don't CARE what the logic is, I bet they're just being cheap, even with the best logic it's obviously not working to the point of being abusive. Not acceptable. Get out...


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## Kay Armstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

Yep, I'd be switching barns. The only reason I could think of to do this is to save on cost. The cost of the bedding and the ..what to do with it once it's soiled issue. Doesn't sound likely to change.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Oh, and FWIW I posted my comment thinking it was the second one.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Topaz17 said:


> By the way, I put this out here, because I am thinking of moving my horse very soon, for this reason, and want feedback from other people, thanks .


I hope you move soon because your feelings about this situation are correct. These people are not using bedding _because they are cheap_ and probably some idiot told them that it's not necessary with mats. It's not uncommon for BOs to be cheap about bedding but this is taking it too far.

A completely unhealthy environment for your horse as you are finding out with the thrush. The local feed stores will have shavings and/or pellets in a plastic wrapped bale. Haul in your own for now but get out as soon as you can!

When you look at new boarding places, be sure to notice the condition of the horses there and the condition of the stalls. That will give you a pretty good idea of what kind of place it is.


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## bella44 (Oct 22, 2016)

I am sorry, but I have one word for you......RUNNNN! Run like the wind with your horse out of there! Poor baby.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I'd be gone sooner rather then later. The ammonia isn't good for them to breathe, the wet mats are slippery, and, especially for an older horse, I want the stalls to be cushy if I'm going to ask them to stand in a box all day. 

My BO doesn't use a ton of shavings either, but I like everything else otherwise so I spring the extra $7-14 dollars to put extra in. But, my horse is only inside when it's crappy out. I don't think she's been inside since April!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Agree with others that have said it - MOVE
rubber mats aren't intended to be used in a secure stable without bedding, a horse that lies down is going to get in an awful mess or be at risk of slipping and injuring itself plus some/many horses won't pee on a bare floor
When rubber mats first became popular we were told to only use a small amount of shavings but soon discovered that it was actually not cost effective and a good deep bed actually means you take less out every day


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

1. If you are in a position to move your horse to a better place, move him "yesterday".


2. If it turns out you can't move him, buy the shavings yourself and bed his stall. My stalls are 12 x 14, when they get stripped, it takes 4-5 bags of shavings to give the horses a 3" - 4" thickness.

I have a deep limestone crush base with grid (holes in them) mats on top; I don't need to bed too deep plus I have learned my elder horses with arthritis have too much trouble getting up in deep bedding.

2.1. You could probably plan on cleaning the stall yourself and continually replenishing the bedding, just as long as the owner keeps her horse out of your horse's clean stall

Good luck with this. Please let us know what you end up doing


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## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

Hello everyone,
Thanks so much for the feedback! Confirms my thinking. I already have transportation planned to pick my horse up in 5 days. He will go back to a large horse boarding farm where he has been for many years. Safe n sound, good care. Many people around, bedded stalls, stays clean, and smells good in the barn! They are very happy to take him back and have saved the last open stall for him! So, we are set to move. 
I moved him originally only because the place where he is now is so close to me , costs less, was hoping it would work out.
I put some shavings/ bedding in his stall for now, a thin layer. 
This barn owner said they would get shavings 2-3 weeks ago, and I even gave them $45 to get the bedding...it never happened...I just don't know why. Guess they think just mats is OK. Someone replied it doesn't matter the reason, so true! 
Besides, even if I provided my own bedding, the barn owner's horse tends to stand in the stall where my horse is fed and kept in bad weather, so, I would be providing shavings for not just my horse's mess. I would prefer the barn owner do bedding, realizing it is necessary. May be due to the additional cost$$, or just ignorance. There is plenty of private land there for manure disposal. Doesn't matter. That's the way they like to keep their barn.
I work 55+ hrs/week, and prefer full board, want to come to the barn to enjoy my horse and relax.
Peace of mind is everything.
Thanks all!!


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Great news!

Also, speaking from an old person's point of view:

This is a prime example of why if does not pay to "burn bridges", even if it may be justified. It wasn't the case for OP, I'm just sayin' one never knows when they may have to backtrack, whether it's boarding a horse, quitting a job, moving

Glad things will work out so well, even if it is more money and a further drive


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## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

Just to clarify, it is a 2 stall barn, open to the paddock. Both horses are brought in for feeding twice a day. Owner lives there.
My 18 yr old horse is kept in a stall during rain/bad weather, since the barn owner's younger horse will dominate the barn door, and keep my horse out in the weather, and its a muddy paddock. So, he has to be brought in to the stall and closed in , to stay dry. The other horse has free range to stand in the stable- usually standing in the middle isle- or go out in the paddock. Therefore if it rains 3 days, my horse is in 3 days. The barn owner states they "rotate" the stalls, so when one stall gets dirty/wet, they will move my horse to the dryer stall.
I visit, and my horse is in the paddock, while the other horse likes to stand in my horse's stall and keep him out. So, that adds to the floor mess. I have counted 2-3 days before the barn owner will clean the stalls, when the stalls are ONLY used for feeding . I'm not sure about cleaning in bad weather when he is kept in , but when I visit afterwards, it is smelly, even if the poop is in the wheelbarrow, there is still urine on the mats, and my horse had to stand and lay down in that?!? The owner runs out to use the stall dry powder when I visit . Say they have been soo busy with family issues, and a lot on their plate.....Just seems like things got worse this fall. I got the feeling stall dry powder and cleaning is not used every day, but at least they were willing to rotate my horse over to the other dryer stall until they cleaned up.
Problem is: it is still JUST MATS and NO bedding. Wet with urine puddles , squishy under the mats that are directly on clay soil. Stool pile where my horse will back up and poop in the corner.
I cannot imagine what it would be like for my horse to lay down on a wet mat in winter. I don't want to wait to see if they use bedding then.
My cat's litter box is cleaner and dryer.
Yes, the lameness from the thrush was the last straw. Even if I provide the bedding, barn owner's horse likes to stand during the day in the stall where my horse feeds, so I will be putting down bedding for my horse and their horse who uses that stall as a hangout . Will that change the cleaning schedule? Doubt it.


Thanks again to all that gave input, it is much appreciated! Hope this is helpful for other boarders.
We move in 5 days! Smile !To a clean &dry, good smelling horse stable. Just in time for winter.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Good news indeed! Kudos to you for being alert about the conditions of your horse's stall despite working such long hours. You're making the right decision. Good that the old barn is so happy to have you back! walkinthewalk is right, it's important to do things as diplomatically as possible, whenever possible. When I first moved Harley this time last year, it was because the paddocks were far too small and crowded and he was standing in mud all the time. I still managed to maintain an excellent relationship with the BO and we see each other all the time. He is still happy to provide advice and guidance. When I moved him in the spring to my own barn, our neighbors, who had kept him all winter, were very gracious. I had a watercolour painting done of their three horses as a thank you even though I was paying a pretty good board and wasn't always 100% happy with how they did things. But that was different - I knew it was just temporary. We still visit and since they're so close by, we exchange horse sitting services when we need to go away. It has worked out splendidly! 

Your current barn owners may not realize what they're doing is bad for your horse, but hopefully, you can move out without leaving bad feelings behind.


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## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

*Thanks*



walkinthewalk said:


> Great news!
> 
> Also, speaking from an old person's point of view:
> 
> ...



That is so true. I was a good boarder, and my horse is a sweetie, so the door was open for me to return, a few other boarders were happy to see me back yesterday checking out his new stall. I got hugs. :loveshower:


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Topaz17 said:


> Just to clarify, it is a 2 stall barn, open to the paddock. Both horses are brought in for feeding twice a day. Owner lives there.
> My 18 yr old horse is kept in a stall during rain/bad weather, since the barn owner's younger horse will dominate the barn door, and keep my horse out in the weather, and its a muddy paddock. So, he has to be brought in to the stall and closed in , to stay dry. The other horse has free range to stand in the stable- usually standing in the middle isle- or go out in the paddock. Therefore if it rains 3 days, my horse is in 3 days. The barn owner states they "rotate" the stalls, so when one stall gets dirty/wet, they will move my horse to the dryer stall.
> I visit, and my horse is in the paddock, while the other horse likes to stand in my horse's stall and keep him out. So, that adds to the floor mess. I have counted 2-3 days before the barn owner will clean the stalls, when the stalls are ONLY used for feeding . I'm not sure about cleaning in bad weather when he is kept in , but when I visit afterwards, it is smelly, even if the poop is in the wheelbarrow, there is still urine on the mats, and my horse had to stand and lay down in that?!? The owner runs out to use the stall dry powder when I visit . Say they have been soo busy with family issues, and a lot on their plate.....Just seems like things got worse this fall. I got the feeling stall dry powder and cleaning is not used every day, but at least they were willing to rotate my horse over to the other dryer stall until they cleaned up.
> Problem is: it is still JUST MATS and NO bedding. Been wet with urine puddles , squishy under the mats that are directly on clay soil. Stool pile where my horse will back up and poop in the corner.
> ...


Typed my reply before reading this. It sounds like things are spinning out of control at this barn. While they may truly going through hard times, that's not your problem, obviously, and you can't let your horse suffer like this. I'm betting things are going to get worse before they get better. And red flags would certainly go up if I saw poop sitting in a wheelbarrow on a regular basis (why not dump it?) AND the BO running to put down that stall powder everytime you show up. Rotating the stalls rather than keeping them clean is not a sound practice!!!


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## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

Acadianartist said:


> Good news indeed! Kudos to you for being alert about the conditions of your horse's stall despite working such long hours. You're making the right decision. Good that the old barn is so happy to have you back! walkinthewalk is right, it's important to do things as diplomatically as possible, whenever possible. When I first moved Harley this time last year, it was because the paddocks were far too small and crowded and he was standing in mud all the time. I still managed to maintain an excellent relationship with the BO and we see each other all the time. He is still happy to provide advice and guidance. When I moved him in the spring to my own barn, our neighbors, who had kept him all winter, were very gracious. I had a watercolour painting done of their three horses as a thank you even though I was paying a pretty good board and wasn't always 100% happy with how they did things. But that was different - I knew it was just temporary. We still visit and since they're so close by, we exchange horse sitting services when we need to go away. It has worked out splendidly!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is wonderful that the BO's and you were able to maintain a good relationships. Awesome! That is a good feeling . I do want to maintain the lines open so that I can still chat with the present BO about horses and local events. 
I do feel they are taking things personal , tho, since that is their personality. It is making them sad/anxious because they feel I made a rush decision, and that I can provide anything above what they provide now, such as my preference for bedding. Their horse will now be alone, since my horse is his only companion. He will be whinnying for a buddy.
The family is lovely, and I liked their hospitality. I told them my horse requires a higher level of care as he ages, and I feel better about him being where he was before.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Topaz17 said:


> Hello everyone,
> Thanks so much for the feedback! Confirms my thinking. I already have transportation planned to pick my horse up in 5 days. He will go back to a large horse boarding farm where he has been for many years. Safe n sound, good care. Many people around, bedded stalls, stays clean, and smells good in the barn! They are very happy to take him back and have saved the last open stall for him! So, we are set to move.
> I moved him originally only because the place where he is now is so close to me , costs less, was hoping it would work out.
> I put some shavings/ bedding in his stall for now, a thin layer.
> ...


Yes, yes, yes, esp to the last bit.

Especially after giving them money...that is insult to injury.

Especially as a full boarder- if they haven't changed they aren't going to.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> Typed my reply before reading this. It sounds like things are spinning out of control at this barn. While they may truly going through hard times, that's not your problem, obviously, and you can't let your horse suffer like this. I'm betting things are going to get worse before they get better. And red flags would certainly go up if I saw poop sitting in a wheelbarrow on a regular basis (why not dump it?) AND the BO running to put down that stall powder everytime you show up. Rotating the stalls rather than keeping them clean is not a sound practice!!!


If the horses at my mothers use the stalls exclusively (say bad weather, but not bad enough they're physically shut in so no shavings) cleaning one stall (scrape, shovel, put down a few handfuls of shavings on wet spots) takes hm....MAYBE 5 minutes for the big stall? Maybe a LITTLE more if it's esp bad. Swapping the stall as opposed to cleaning is just ridiculous.


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## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

Yogiwick said:


> If the horses at my mothers use the stalls exclusively (say bad weather, but not bad enough they're physically shut in so no shavings) cleaning one stall (scrape, shovel, put down a few handfuls of shavings on wet spots) takes hm....MAYBE 5 minutes for the big stall? Maybe a LITTLE more if it's esp bad. Swapping the stall as opposed to cleaning is just ridiculous.



Being that conditions have declined, I emphasize with them having increased family issues, running around to take care of their family, and an ill sister and elder mother, and holding a full time job. I think they are just too fatigued from all this to really focus on horse care, and do things to just get by. 
Yet, I cannot let my horse suffer if they are having hard times.
I will not worry about the $ I gave them, apparently they need it for something else. I did ask about it, but told me again they were getting bedding with it.( 3 weeks later now).
This evening I spoke with the BO, and there was family stress in their words....but at least now more accepting of my horse moving. I would think with all their stressors, with my horse leaving, it will be a relief for them, less work. I plan to leave them a card and small token ( fav bag of Reese cups) in the barn.
2 days ago there was only 1 1/2 bales of hay left. When I inquired today, they told me they picked up 20 bales this evening. Sad situation. They do not need a boarder.


Lesson learned about going to a private home barn, or any boarding place. Gotta keep eyes open.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Topaz17 said:


> Being that conditions have declined, I emphasize with them having increased family issues, running around to take care of their family, and an ill sister and elder mother, and holding a full time job. I think they are just too fatigued from all this to really focus on horse care, and do things to just get by.
> Yet, I cannot let my horse suffer if they are having hard times.
> I will not worry about the $ I gave them, apparently they need it for something else. I did ask about it, but told me again they were getting bedding with it.( 3 weeks later now).
> This evening I spoke with the BO, and there was family stress in their words....but at least now more accepting of my horse moving. I would think with all their stressors, with my horse leaving, it will be a relief for them, less work. I plan to leave them a card and small token ( fav bag of Reese cups) in the barn.
> ...


Yes, sounds like it is not an intentional thing or not caring on their part, just overwhelmed...which happens to the best of us. But you are right that the horse needs to come first, you don't owe them anything but you do owe the horse. You are right it will probably be easier for them, I'm guessing they're more of a frustrated about letting your down then upset that you're leaving.

Anywhere would be lucky to have you as a boarder!!....let me know if you move to MA


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Topaz17 said:


> Being that conditions have declined, I emphasize with them having increased family issues, running around to take care of their family, and an ill sister and elder mother, and holding a full time job. I think they are just too fatigued from all this to really focus on horse care, and do things to just get by.
> Yet, I cannot let my horse suffer if they are having hard times.
> I will not worry about the $ I gave them, apparently they need it for something else. I did ask about it, but told me again they were getting bedding with it.( 3 weeks later now).
> This evening I spoke with the BO, and there was family stress in their words....but at least now more accepting of my horse moving. I would think with all their stressors, with my horse leaving, it will be a relief for them, less work. I plan to leave them a card and small token ( fav bag of Reese cups) in the barn.
> ...


Wow, they're about to run out of hay and are only going to get another 20 bales? Not sure how it works where you live, but it's not easy to find hay around here in the winter, unless you are prepared to pay premium prices. I'm betting these people aren't. It doesn't sound like they've done much planning ahead so it's good that you're leaving now! You're right, they don't need a boarder. As for their horse being lonely, that's their problem, not yours.


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## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

Acadianartist said:


> Wow, they're about to run out of hay and are only going to get another 20 bales? Not sure how it works where you live, but it's not easy to find hay around here in the winter, unless you are prepared to pay premium prices. I'm betting these people aren't. It doesn't sound like they've done much planning ahead so it's good that you're leaving now! You're right, they don't need a boarder. As for their horse being lonely, that's their problem, not yours.


 
No, it doesn't seem like they are planning ahead for winter. I'm thinking that hay feeding may have been cinchy recently due to decreased hay supply in barn. Their spouse ( who is not a horse person, said they fed my horse 1 flake one morning ( when the BO couldn't get to the barn), and my horse ate it really fast! I was looking at them , saying ONE FLAKE??,,no, no he gets at least 2-3 flakes! Like my little sign about his feeding says!......well, they were told that amount by the BO. When I questioned the BO, they reassured the spouse just got it wrong. While I was there, a generous amount of hay was placed in my horses bin for dinner by the BO. I think otherwise happens when I'm not around.. 
That 20 bales were to be for 2 horses including mine. Maybe that's all the BO could afford right now. That amount was NOT going to last long. There is plenty of storage space there in the barn.Warning signs. 
I also poked around , initially to make sure my horse would have enough feed thru the end of this week, but when I looked in their horse's feed storage bin, it was just about empty! I guess that's why the BO lets their horse out in the field with all the grass, maybe to make up for lack of feed. ( my horse has insulin resistance, so no fresh grass for him, has to wear a muzzle). Not good signs.
Other minor bad sign , they never started their veggie garden this year, they were so proud of last year, due to "lack of time", and they come home from work sometimes and fall asleep on the couch, just exhausted.......I'm thinking, ...well, were the horses tended to??


I sometimes recall the warning signs I ignored when I had various caretakers for my mother while in her home, whew! A top notch nursing home makes all the difference! 
Lessons learned.
Ok I'm going let you all know how we make out , and how excited I think my horse will be when he sees he is going back into his previous home!! Friday !!:grin:


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## Topaz17 (Oct 21, 2016)

Hi all who were following me through the wet stall ordeal. 
That morning of transport, found him laying in the dirt and mud just outside of the barn door sleeping. Guess he couldn't lay down in the wet stall conditions, and the other horse was keeping him outside the barn door anyway, most likely.
My horse loaded in the trailer, gave a few whinnys to the other horse as he was leaving.
Upon reaching his previous stable, the horses in the field went running down the pasture alongside the trailer, like a big WELCOME home party!! Fun to see 20 horses galloping along side the trailer , calling to my horse.
He unloaded and perked up, prancing around. People greeted us , and many were glad to see him back !
Clean, dry, good smelling shavings in a stall, the same one he occupied when he left !!
He looked very happy to be back in old familiar surroundings. His attitude changed to being upbeat over the next few days, unlike his "down" mood at the other place.
The next time it rained , I was very glad I had moved him, especially in advance of winter.
Thanks all


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Topaz17 said:


> Hi all who were following me through the wet stall ordeal.
> That morning of transport, found him laying in the dirt and mud just outside of the barn door sleeping. Guess he couldn't lay down in the wet stall conditions, and the other horse was keeping him outside the barn door anyway, most likely.
> My horse loaded in the trailer, gave a few whinnys to the other horse as he was leaving.
> Upon reaching his previous stable, the horses in the field went running down the pasture alongside the trailer, like a big WELCOME home party!! Fun to see 20 horses galloping along side the trailer , calling to my horse.
> ...


Thanks for the update! That's so awesome. I'm so glad it all worked out for you. Your horse thanks you for being such a good human.


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