# Foal overall critique - is she worth going to look at?



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

It's so hard to judge those youngsters like that. She does appear to have good conformation underneath all the wonky one-sided growth of a weanling. She may be a bit cow hocked but it appears that her fronts are nice and straight. Petite head, a little thick through the neck but that could change as she grows. I couldn't venture a guess on whether or not she will mature to be downhill but I think she's a cutie and will likely grow into a nice looking horse.

Have you seen good confo shots of the sire and dam? Do they have any glaringly obvious faults?


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

I've posted every photo I've received so far unfortunately. So the photo there of the sire I posted and the photo with her dam in the background (black mare) is all I've gotten. 

I did request a few more photos of all 3 so we'll see if I get anything more worthwhile. I know foals are just so hard to judge. The only thing bad I've seen in photos from this farm so far is that they're broodmares seem to be a bit thin but since the filly would be moved immediately upon weaning that shouldn't have any effect on her.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

The only thing concerning to me is the length of her pasterns. The angle could change as she grows but the bone isn't going to shrink. They are rather long. Long=weak to me.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Honestly? Looking at her dam and her sire I would not bother. It is impossible to tell where she will be as an adult based on HER photos but the apple does not fall far from the tree. Her sire and dam are not much to look at. I do like her coloring. 

She is a BYB horse. Being the Great Grandaughter or Grandson of KingP234 or Boston Mac or Poco Bueno is not really worth mentioning. Notable horses are too far back in the pedigree to be of much influence.

I look at the sire and the dam from these photos and the sire should be gelded and the dam not bred! 

I think that you are looking at a $650 foal that is.. well.. a $650 foal. If that is what you want and you do not mind then go for it. 

My only other comment is training a horse takes a lot of time and effort. It takes the same time and effort with a mediocre horse as with a good one. When I was doing this I quickly learned to be discerning and try to limit that effort to good horses.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Ask yourself if you would still be interested in her if she was a plain color.



I agree the others, I would pass.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

If you're looking for a project, I would not pass.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Ask yourself if you would still be interested in her if she was a plain color.
> 
> I agree the others, I would pass.


Honestly, IMO she IS a plain color. I know a lot of people get really excited about grulla and duns but I'm having a bit of a problem accepting that she's a breeding stock paint. I'm trying to look past her color lol!




Alwaysbehind said:


> If you're looking for a project, I would not pass.


There's just something I really like about her. I probably won't ever have the time (or money) to show BIG but I want something I can start myself and work up (I have plenty of experience) enough to at least handle local showing and a few bigger shows.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Pocco, please edit your post, I did not say what you have quoted as being said by me, the second quote.


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## DutchFeather (May 9, 2011)

The dam looks like she toes out very badly on front, the filyl herself is cow hocked and narrow on back. The stallion is pretty, but thats really about it. The filly would probably only amount to a trail horse/pleasure horse.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Always behind - sorry was trying to multiquote and i screwed it up. it wont let me edit it now


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## heartprints62 (Feb 27, 2010)

Her sir is unimpressive. The first thing that scream out NO to me is that her dam looks splay- and ****-footed (long sloping pastern) which is heriditary and leads to ligament and tendon strain and injury to the sesamoid bones as the fetlock drops. Also both conditions make for bad footing and require low-impact-only styles of riding, which rules out versatility and basically leaves you with a short-trail riding, back yard lead pony.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I think.. If you want her, get her. You have the time/money/patience for her, sounds like.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> I think.. If you want her, get her. You have the time/money/patience for her, sounds like.



Based on what criteria?? The OP asked for opinions based on the fact that this little one is a long drive away, and there are lots of really good opinions, with reasoning being given.

I'm not sure that "If you want her, get her" is a good opinion, and what facts do you base this on anyway??

If someone posts pics of a horse they have already bought, then you can say pretty horsey comments all day, but this thread I thought was asking for something a little more substantive.

Having gone off track sorry OP, I'm with you, I don't see anything special in the color, I would be looking in spite of, rather than because of the color.

I'm not seeing anything special that would cause me to drive all day to see her, her parents aren't that special looking, and as you say the mare looks kind of thin, just makes me wonder if the foal has missed any quality of nutrition as it is growing.

Foals though are the very devil to assess, I spend half the time wanting to hide Wombat in a large paper bag, and the other thinking that he might actually grow up to be stunning.

BUT BUT, the other side that you have to consider, I know smart people can tell how a horse will move form it's conformation, but I can't, and even when Wombat is going through a paper bag stage I still love watching him walk, he has that long flowing effortless walk that is going to make him a great performer when he grows up. So can you get a video, as well as more pics of mum and dad?


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Based on what criteria?? The OP asked for opinions based on the fact that this little one is a long drive away, and there are lots of really good opinions, with reasoning being given.
> 
> Because if you read post number 8 you'll see Poco's comment on liking something about her and that she wants to raise and train one.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Wanting to raise and train one does not negate the points made in GH's post.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

*OPTION #2:

*Okay, so what do you guys think of this filly? (*headdesk repeatedly* I soooo don't want another white horse but alas must look past color!)

I have NOT contacted owners yet. Sending e-mail now for more info.





































Per Ad:
_April 2010 Grey Tob/Ovr Filly for Sale 
Paid in full to IA Paint Breeders Fut. 
Asking $500 for her 
Real Zippin Star Paint 

























They are all handled DAILY on manners and respect. They are currently all in stalls, worked on LL several times a week and ready for you to take them any direction you please!! _ 

*Pedigree:*
Real Zippin Star Paint


Opinions?


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## Hukassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Theirs to many foals weanlings and yearlings out their that Poco could raise and train to just say "buy this one if you like her!". Their are so many others, probably with better conformation, registered, and the same price as this filly that Poco could find.

The only thing I really don't like about option 2 is her pasterns, they seem very upright.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Wanting to raise and train one does not negate the points made in GH's post.


I said what I said because GH asked the one poster where she got that thats what POCO wanted to do I just pointed out where that comment was.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Hukassa said:


> The only thing I really don't like about option 2 is her pasterns, they seem very upright.


I did notice that. I'm also unsure since the upper pictures she looks fine but the lower photos make her look like she has a terribly short back, not sure if it is due to standing more under herself or what. I'm still on the hunt though!


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Is option #2 in Ky? if so where?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Option #2 has a nice shoulder. Not a fan of the long pasterns that appear to be upright.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Is option #2 in Ky? if so where?


KY? No, it's in Iowa.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Poco1220 said:


> KY? No, it's in Iowa.



Ok it looked like she had on a UK sweater lol


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## Starlite (Jan 25, 2011)

I would avoid those pasterns on #2...they are almost vertical!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Not liking number 2, posty back legs and upright pasterns, I'd pass


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

In all honesty, I liked the first one better. I won't say to completely discount the parents appearance, but it is possible (albeit uncommon) for less than great parents to throw a good looking and capable foal.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Okay *Option 3!*

I'm on a horse search at this point but everything is 5+ hours away and I simply can't afford the gas to check every one out so I'm letting you guys help me go through some of these 

A little in a different direction at this point...

_2 year old purebred Arabian filly, chestnut with chrome! Registered with AHA, Preacher Man on top, Padron on bottom, pedigree can be seen at Moufadallah Arabian. 
Some groundwork: leads, ties, lounges, had saddle on a few times, stood good for the farrier. Very very smart but typical arab attitude. Will make a superb show horse!!_






































My first thoughts:
She's level which is awesome. A 2 year old so I could do more groundwork this summer and start her next spring. I *love* arabs but just haven't found anything worthwhile in my price range. My only dislikes is she seems awfully thick for a filly? Maybe some muscle will tone her up a bit, remove some "baby fat", and give her a bit more feminine look?


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Poco1220 said:


> Okay *Option 3!*
> 
> I'm on a horse search at this point but everything is 5+ hours away and I simply can't afford the gas to check every one out so I'm letting you guys help me go through some of these
> 
> ...



I like her but I'm partial because I love arabs next to quarter horses imo they are the best they are such loyal and eager to please horses and darn right smart too.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> I like her but I'm partial because I love arabs next to quarter horses imo they are the best they are such loyal and eager to please horses and darn right smart too.


I"m with you. I grew up on saddlebreds, arabs, and NSH's... can't beat the "flair" and personality. They're just fun ALL THE TIME! And they're so eye catching in the showring vs the low headed wp/hunters.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Poco1220 said:


> I"m with you. I grew up on saddlebreds, arabs, and NSH's... can't beat the "flair" and personality. They're just fun ALL THE TIME! And they're so eye catching in the showring vs the low headed wp/hunters.



Go look and meet her in person see if yall click. Oh and the comment they made about the arab attitude...usually means the horse is smarter than the owner imo Take lots of pic's


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Go look and meet her in person see if yall click. Oh and the comment they made about the arab attitude...usually means the horse is smarter than the owner imo Take lots of pic's


*sigh* She's only about 3 1/2 hours away. I might have to give in and see her if I get more good reviews. 

I also LOVE that they actually clipped and bathed her for the sale ad, plus gave conformation shots - BIG WIN for the seller!!!


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## heartprints62 (Feb 27, 2010)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> ...usually means the horse is smarter than the owner


Totally agree there! That goes for just about any breed, imo =)

I don't know much of anything about Arabs (I'm a die hard foundation QH girl myself) but I like HER much better than the other 2 choices. She knows some already, looks like she has a good attitude/personality, doesn't have a crazy, wild eye look, and for the very little I know about horse conformation (and I mean VERY little) she looks very well put together. I also give props to the sellers for cleaning her up for pictures and taking pictures that are good for the purpose of selling. 

IMO, good look at her, see if clicks with you.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

She has a very vertical shoulder in pictures number 1 and 2. I like her low hocks, but the angles above the hocks seem to force them to be camped out or to fall behind a plumb line dropped from the point of buttock to the ground. 

I personally do NOT like Arabian Horses. They are very pretty and great for long distance trail rides as they condition beautifully and have a lot of go in that regard.. but it is not a breed I would ever choose to own for a variety of reasons. 

What do you plan to do with this horse? Train it and sell it? Do a discipline? Maybe that needs to be settled first (and it may well be settled in your own mind and simply not posted here). 

I like this saying.. a Failure to plan is a plan to Fail. What are YOUR plans? 



Poco1220 said:


> Okay *Option 3!*
> 
> I'm on a horse search at this point but everything is 5+ hours away and I simply can't afford the gas to check every one out so I'm letting you guys help me go through some of these


This statement is somewhat concerning. Horses are expensive to have and to own.. and take a lot of effort to train. Better to have the money (or save more) so you CAN go look. Do not short change yourself on any level in this area!!


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

I dont think her statement is concerning why travel that distance one way for every horse when she can get it critiqued here first and since she is in Ill. there weather has been the same in K its been horridly hot with smog alerts which means limited driving and doesnt hurt to save in this economy.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Elana - as I had already stated I'm lOoking for a prospect to start as eng pl / HUS, and trail for open showing and some larger area shows. 

As far as the "concerning statement" I understand horses = money, trust me. But Im not going to spend 10 hours a day on the road looking at every horse that catches my eye, that's simply ridiculous. I see no shame in asking people on here for opinions first to ensure I'm actually seeing all the flaws.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I think it's entirely sensible to be asking for some feedback on horses that are a long way away, it is all to easy to get carried away looking at pics, and someone else pointing out what you may have missed can save you a wasted trip.

Far more concerning is the person who rushes out and buys the first one they see, without any support from anyone.


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## heartprints62 (Feb 27, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> I think it's entirely sensible to be asking for some feedback on horses that are a long way away, it is all to easy to get carried away looking at pics, and someone else pointing out what you may have missed can save you a wasted trip.
> 
> *Far more concerning is the person who rushes out and buys the first one they see, without any support from anyone.*


 
Well put Golden! I wish no one would do that... but then I wouldn't have as much business (I seem to attract all the "I have no idea what I'm doing" owners! Guess it's time to raise my training rates! HA!)

I personally have come to trust and respect the opinions of MANY of our forum members and I would do the same if I were horse shopping!


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Far more concerning is the person who rushes out and buys the first one they see, without any support from anyone.

^ THIS! it is insanely hard to drive a 10 hour trip Togo see a horse and come home with an empty trailer. Let alone to do that multiple times lol. I really appreciate the members here and have been here long enough to know who's opinions are worth taking (which is the majority of members I deal with).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

I am pretty sure Poco you know what your doing I wouldn't second guess you I just gotta say I like the arab she is a looker
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartprints62 (Feb 27, 2010)

Poco- let us know if you go see her!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Poco1220 said:


> Elana - as I had already stated I'm lOoking for a prospect to start as eng pl / HUS, and trail for open showing and some larger area shows.
> 
> As far as the "concerning statement" I understand horses = money, trust me. But Im not going to spend 10 hours a day on the road looking at every horse that catches my eye, that's simply ridiculous. I see no shame in asking people on here for opinions first to ensure I'm actually seeing all the flaws.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh I just thought it was worth mnetioning. I think youknw what you want to do considering your post here. Just bringing up any pit falls.

Ultimately I want everyone who ever takes on a project horse to succeeed. There are a LOT of good horses out there (some for free) that are plain.. that would make really very very good horses. But because the lack training and are plain looking (READ: Yet another Chestnut mare with little chrome) they get passed over. 

I would love to see you get a horse that is sound and well put together that is a bit plain in looks but who could really do the job if given the training. 

I have to ask all the questions. They are not meant as put downs.. they are meant to encourage you to succeed and, therefore, the horse to succeed as well!!!! 

Be prepared to LOOK for a good bit.. and while you are looking keep saving. There is a good one out there.. just be patient and find him or her!!!! 

The last horse I rescued was NOT a top horse physically. He was headed for slaughter.. but he had what I call "the look." He was far from perfect but I liked "the look" and took a chance. He had been abused, untrained and then ran free on 300 acres for 4 years (or more). I bought him based on "the look" knowing I might still have to send him to the knacker (he was dangerous). 

So I risked it and he turned into one of the best I ever owned because he TRIED so hard.. and it made up for what he lacked physically. When I sold him he went to a woman recently in remission from Breast Cancer who needed a reliable horse. He was reliable... 

Does this help you (and anyone else here) to understand where I am coming from? At the end of your search I want you to end up with either a really good one (albeit plain) or one like this horse I just described.. 

Worth it in every way!!!!


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

I do like the arab you posted, however with my experience arabs do not place well in most things english (pleasure, hunter, hunter under saddle). Judges don't prefer the look of an arab to other breeds and if you are planning to show at larger shows, I would pass on the breed completely. 

If you are planning to do ARAB BREED SHOWS and enter in the english pleasure/HUS, by all means go for her! She looks sweet and well put together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

blush said:


> I do like the arab you posted, however with my experience arabs do not place well in most things english (pleasure, hunter, hunter under saddle). Judges don't prefer the look of an arab to other breeds and if you are planning to show at larger shows, I would pass on the breed completely.
> 
> If you are planning to do ARAB BREED SHOWS and enter in the english pleasure/HUS, by all means go for her! She looks sweet and well put together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's really interesting! It must depend on the area? Because where Im at it seems like if an Arab enters it wins. Almost hands down everytime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Okay, I did email the Arab owner asking a few questions. She said the filly is pretty good for farrier/getting her feet done. She is very timid, not spooky just shy. She was nervous being saddled but did not buck/react and was fine once it was on and stood well for it being cinched up. She will bathe but again is a little nervous about it. She does okay with clipping except around her ears and had to be twitched for that (this can be worked on and I don't see it as a deal breaker of any sorts - she is ONLY 2!).

I've asked the owner to send me some video of the filly lunging so I can see her movement and she will be sending me that tomorrow she said. I also am waiting to hear her current and estimated maturing height (should be pretty much the same) as anything under 14.2hh is kind of a deal breaker. I'm only 5'3 but currently 160 so I would have to lose a bit to avoid looking overwhelming on her.

Any more opinions on this mare?


*ALSO!
*Can anyone tell me anything about her bloodlines? Please? I don't even know where to begin in the arab breeding anymore unfortunately...
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/moufadallah


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## atreyu917 (May 22, 2011)

I'm subbing, as I am curious as to who you end up getting!


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

*bump* 

anyone else?


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Okay, owner said mare should mature to 15hh which would be awesome. (Though being arabian I'm still somehow in my head stuck at her being 14.2 lol).

She did send me two videos today. My reaction to the videos is that the mare probably was born, weaned, put in a field, and that was it. I don't think she's been handled a ton or had a bunch of work put into her (which is OK since the price reflects it). She does seem a bit scared and flighty but I think it's most likely due to not understanding what exactly is being asked of her and simply not being taken through it slow enough. 

Opinions?
Being saddled: 




Lunged: 




What do you think of her? AND what do you feel she's worth?


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## atreyu917 (May 22, 2011)

She does look really fearful, but hey, you said you were interested in a project horse right? Physically she's beautiful, so if you want a horse to start I like her


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

To me she looks confused as hell first of all would someone shut that dang dog up and second who takes a young extremely green horse and ties her like that and leaves her. I like her all I have to say Bourbon was untouched she's 2 as well she was a rearing mess and she has done a complete 180 great horse all it took was someone who knew what they were doing.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> To me she looks confused as hell first of all would someone shut that dang dog up and second who takes a young extremely green horse and ties her like that and leaves her. I like her all I have to say Bourbon was untouched she's 2 as well she was a rearing mess and she has done a complete 180 great horse all it took was someone who knew what they were doing.


Lol maybe videos would make more sense to me if I didn't mute my computer constantly! I really think she's just green and needs some real time, work, and patience. Anyone disagree?


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## heartprints62 (Feb 27, 2010)

I think she's the PERFECT project horse. She's built nicely, when she gets moving in a stead pace (as short as it was) she's a nice mover. The body language from the woman in the video screams "I'm nervous and don't really know what I'm doing!" So I second the opinion that in the hands of a capable person, she'll probably be a GREAT horse! She already looks responsive and to be tied that short and nervous about being saddled and NOT pulling back or rearing, takes a little bit of brain power over the flight response.... I vote yes!


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

heartprints62 said:


> I think she's the PERFECT project horse. She's built nicely, when she gets moving in a stead pace (as short as it was) she's a nice mover. The body language from the woman in the video screams "I'm nervous and don't really know what I'm doing!" So I second the opinion that in the hands of a capable person, she'll probably be a GREAT horse! She already looks responsive and to be tied that short and nervous about being saddled and NOT pulling back or rearing, takes a little bit of brain power over the flight response.... I vote yes!


Agreed. The fact the filly is not dragging the woman on the lunge line and comes back around to a standstill with ears perked as well as handled being tied short while nervous really makes me think she is willing to please and just has no clue what anyone wants of her! I think if things were taken a bit slower she could be fantastic. I really do love her movement. I sent the lady another e-mail asking about pricing and how she would be to load.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Poco1220 said:


> Agreed. The fact the filly is not dragging the woman on the lunge line and comes back around to a standstill with ears perked as well as handled being tied short while nervous really makes me think she is willing to please and just has no clue what anyone wants of her! I think if things were taken a bit slower she could be fantastic. I really do love her movement. I sent the lady another e-mail asking about pricing and how she would be to load.



Woot woot remember Bourbon was a nightmare to load....so dont discount her because of that LOL


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

The lady loaded her twice today in a 2 horse straight load with no issues so we are good on that part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

She is stunning, and that blonde lady needs a spanking, hate the way she just plonked the saddle down on her back annd tied her so short....She looks wary of the filly too though, looks like they got into a she fight lol (horse might be too smart for her owners XD). The filly looks like she will need some work, looks curious, VERY pretty, I would def. buy her. but not for more then 1k.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

I would low ball offer her if she has her at 1000 offer 500 its a buyers market and frankly most horse people arent smart enough for arabs..so less looking to buy one.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

I emailed her an offer last night and was sure to point all the mares faults so she would understand where I was coming from since I did low ball. We'll see what she comes back with!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Poco1220 said:


> I emailed her an offer last night and was sure to point all the mares faults so she would understand where I was coming from since I did low ball. We'll see what she comes back with!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She may counter offer but if you have to go up in price remind her what it costs her to keep this horse. I'm excited for you fingers crossed she jumps on your offer and this filly finally gets the knowledgeable horse person for an owner


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Well, unfortunately the lady decided she is keeping the Arabian mare and will not be selling her. Which although I feel is a massive mistake on her part since they don't seem to work well together it's not my choice. The search is back on.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Well darn that, I was hoping that you could go get her put of there, nice mare who needs to be in a different place


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Honest, I think you may have dodged a bullet with the Arab filly - I really don't like her hind end in either video, especially when she was being "lunged" - I mean, run around in circle with no control. Anyhow, really didn't like her hind end at rest or in motion. Poor girl, though - no wonder she's shy of being saddled... I would be too if I had a heavy saddle plonked down on my back....


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Poco1220 said:


> Well, unfortunately the lady decided she is keeping the Arabian mare and will not be selling her. Which although I feel is a massive mistake on her part since they don't seem to work well together it's not my choice. The search is back on.



Well crap. That blows.


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## Courtney (May 20, 2011)

Too bad you weren't closer! I have the perfect little project horse for you.


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## atreyu917 (May 22, 2011)

Bummer :/ Good luck with your search. You'll get the horse you're meant to end up with!


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## KDW (May 31, 2011)

IMO...I think the paint filly is nothing special to look at and the previous posters are also correct about the first filly. Could you tell me whom you would be purchasing the grulla filly from??? It might be someone I know, and there are quite a few other babies out of mares up this way.


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