# This REALLY wound me up!!



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

On another forum there is a slightly older chap who has labelled his horse as 'dangerous', now knowing his background and history, we've helped him in any way we can, but this made me fume! One poster said please please lunge the mare before you ride her, until she's dripping with sweat sort of thing. I joked and said make sure she's white with it.. and this is the response from one person!

'Erm sweat dripping off of her? To me that's abuse and the bad end of the scale of 'dominance'. 

And then I happened to mentioned just because a horse is sweating or a bit lathered doesn't mean its not just working, it might just be working correctly. IMO lunging is a fairly intensive excercise for horses. I also put that comment made my day!

Lungeing and sweating a bit - ok. Running a horse's butt off for kicking you (caused by your lack of prevention in the first place) is fine with me (correction). But lungeing a horse til its 'dripping with sweat and white' as you said for teaching and training? (Direction) Wow. Bet a horse loves that. Such fun for a horse. Glad I made your day. Have you made Duffy's day yet by gettting her dripping with sweat and white yet?


Because I work my horse and she sweats, and lathers between her hind legs, bridle area and by her numnah on occassion does not mean I'm being cruel to her, it means she is /working/, she's a /sports horse/ not a happy hacker.

Okay, fume over. I think.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks for posting. This is PRECISELY why I stopped visiting one horse forum. *EVERYBODY *there was an expert and they liked to misinterpret, as in your case. I agree, lunging SHOULD be work. Sadly, I am new to it bc my horses in the past came to be broken in, and I did enough "ground work" while directly them in lessons, walking around in the middle of the arena. Too bad that these folks don't realize that working into a sweat both releases endophins in the horse (as it does in people) and relaxes them, and these two things are pleasurable to the horse. Also, I hope that these folks stick to horses and not have any more petulant, spoiled or bullied children to thrust onto society. I guess you needed to post some pictures of _just how sweaty_ and nervous (not!) your horses are when you lunge them into a sweat, along with a sworn, affidavit assuring them that you are not a horse abuser.
PLEEEEEEASE!!!!!
C'mon--every horse is different, every workout is geared to the present condition or training of said horse--that's why WE are in charge, and not the horse. _The horse would just develop a happy routine and never want to change it!!_
Glad to know that you know how to lunge for results. I will REMEMBER this, so I know of another expert to ask as I hit snags in my lunging training with my 5 yo's!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

You'd have to lunge my paint for an hour before she'd sweat (well, unless we have 90F outside with humidity). :wink: Would make the person more tired than horse. I usually don't lunge (I get on and work in saddle), but there is nothing wrong with some warm-up on lunge before getting to work.


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## TurnNBurn625 (Aug 19, 2010)

i try to lunge my horse everyday. he ends up dripping sweat and gets lathered because he is on the heavy side. but i know its a good thing. so i dont think im abusing him.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I plan to go jogging today. I'm south of Tucson, and I'm going to sweat. Guess I'm cruel.

Besides, if it is a mare, she doesn't sweat. She perspires. There is nothing mean about perspiring.

And I am NOT chubby. I'm just prosperous...


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> You'd have to lunge my paint for an hour before she'd sweat (well, unless we have 90F outside with humidity). :wink: Would make the person more tired than horse.


I ended up doing just that with my 5yr old when he decided to have a tantrum. It just wasn't safe to fix him under saddle, dang horse was way too energetic and way too athletic and it wasn't an *if* but a *when* I was going to end up in the dirt that day if I didn't get off. Took both my trainer and myself over an hour of lunging until he stopped throwing his tantrum. Yes, he was white and dripping sweat by then but if he'd stopped being an unsafe idiot, we'd have stopped lunging. We tried stopping at multiple points and the second we did, back to idiot behavior like charging people, trying to bolt and so forth. 

Not my idea of a good time but it got our point across. Want to be an idiot? You'll get to work until you stop being one.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Thank you guys *wipes tear from eye*
I am fuming! I left at that point because I thought I am not not not lowering myself to an argument.
I thought lunging WAS supposed to be teaching and training anyway? I don't lunge to have an easy time!!
I rode Duffy tonight, she was soaked, I put her in the horse walker. What these fools have to realise is that if the horse didn't want you on its back, you wouldn't be there!


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## AngieLee (Feb 20, 2011)

So its ok to ride our horses until they sweat but not ok, infact its abusive, to lung them until they sweat? intresting!! i'll keep that in mind next time i feel the need to "abuse"my horse.

Honestly! some people i swear! theres nothin wrong with working your horse until they sweat. weather its on the ground or in the saddle. as long as you understand when to stop etc etc


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I actually agree with your nemesis. Exhausting a horse does absolutely nothing. It certainly isn't disciplinary, it solves no training problems, and it definitely doesn't make a horse less likely to act out or be dangerous under saddle.


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## AngieLee (Feb 20, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> I actually agree with your nemesis. Exhausting a horse does absolutely nothing. It certainly isn't disciplinary, it solves no training problems, and it definitely doesn't make a horse less likely to act out or be dangerous under saddle.


i agree. it doesnt fix any problems other then to tire them out.Unless you are doin certain exersizes to help with respect etc. but it certainly isnt abusive. in my opinion anyways as long as you dont run them into the ground. like know your horses limits


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> I actually agree with your nemesis. Exhausting a horse does absolutely nothing. It certainly isn't disciplinary, it solves no training problems, and it definitely doesn't make a horse less likely to act out or be dangerous under saddle.


 
Oh, I'm t talking about exhausting a horse at all! I'm talking about excercising a horse, I find lunge work can be quite strenuous for horse and lunger as it requires you to ride from the ground so to speak. Its a good way to see your horse move from the ground, teaching your horse respect from the ground and also, if you have a hangover, you don't feel so ill from sitting trot. When you're spinning too fast, stop and close your eyes!

It depends how you lunge, if you lunge as working, then your horse has to listen and you can get a lot of respect from them, so I believe it does make them less dangerous. If you tie a piece of rope to them, and let them run in circles, its pointless.

It did help one training problem with mine. Walking. We had a few transition problems from trot to walk under saddle (but really mum, I want to carry on trotting I can do it so prettily!) and lunging her with vocal commands helped that and also with teaching her canter under saddle. Used correctly, lunging is a great tool, but I'm going off topic. 

This is about us being cruel by sweating.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

i just read this and i would be fuming as well. some ppl just don't understand or get things sometimes. if you were to be abusing duffy then i am abusing my horse denny almost everytime we workout. i guess our 5-10 mile trot/run with him on lead next to me is abusive since he gets sweaty during our conditioning season in the spring and i am usually just as sweaty next to him. i guess i should turn myself in  
head up though because you know the difference between going to far and going just enough like most if not all of us here


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

kait18 I can't believe you get to run with your horse, that's awesome!! What do you take her out in, a regular headcollar, or a knotted one?? Lemme know 

Now the conversation on the other forum is ridiculous, anything above hacking is bad for a horse and spurs are awful and blah. I'm not even going to post it. Unless you want me too HAHA!


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

haha go ahead i don't mind  
but yea simple head collar and lead. i use a nylon head collar bc i think its a bit more control then a rope and i use a short 3-5 foot lead. short so i don't trip on it  
haha i started doing it when my dog was to old to run with me. thought maybe this would be a good partner. it helped build his confidence and now its just routine lol but a great partner he is.


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## AngieLee (Feb 20, 2011)

thats so awsome you run with your horse!! my horse just speed walks next to me when i try to run with him! haha

wow this other forum sounds extreamly intresting and very knowlegable! (sarcasim...if you didnt guess lol)


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

ahaha AngieLee my guy used to speed walk. but then i got into better shape and ran faster so it forced him to trot and now he will automatically go into the trot when i run  but he knows when our time is up for running...lol he is pig headed sometimes and at certain spots would stop so i had to change where i stopped lol..to smart for his own good  i hope you still try and run with him - i think its the best


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

LOL AngieLee, it is and it isn't, there are some lovely, lovely people on there but this woman follows me round and picks through my posts. So I got a bit childish to be fair ah! But it released the inner child within and made me feel tres happy! When my laptop isn't sooo slooowww (this is taking foreverr to write) I will post more on  And then someone got the wrong end of the stick and thought I meant them so it went a bit tits up to be fair oops!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Dear me Duffy, the old lunging debate, what have you gotten yourself into 
Well, while you're in trouble - do you want to tell them that I will not lunge any horse that is going under saddle, without side reins or a pessoa system? And to cap that off, some days I will only lunge or long rein, not ride, and the horse will lather between the legs, under the bridle and under the roller. 

Those poor horses that gallop themselves silly in the paddock and come back lathered in sweat - cruel to themselves?? And when I go running, I don't consider it worth while unless I break a good sweat... pretty harsh on myself? 

To be honest, my opinion on lunging is that if you're going to lunge, you need to do it for a purpose, NOT to just burn off some energy before you get on. I lunge to get my horse's back swinginng, to get the hind legs working and to improve connection through the bridle. They always get walked out with no contact after the session until their heart rate is back to normal and they are no longer sweating. 
I think sticking a horse on the end of a rope attached to a halter and spinning them around a young yard with no sense of bend, balance etc. is a heck of a lot 'crueler' than lunging with a purpose and getting a bit of a sweat up.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Shall I tell you a secret before my laptop dies? Duffy broke my instructors side reins when I borrowed them for lunging, and pinged a ring off my lunge girth, which cost a fortuneeee so I got my farrier to fix it in a jiffy ;D and beasted her to show her THIS IS WORK BABY. No, really, I took a lot of lessons in lunging, an love to practise it if I'm too lazy to ride, its a great way to build up horses, and bring horses back in to work after long periods of time off!


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## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

> Besides, if it is a mare, she doesn't sweat. She perspires. There is nothing mean about perspiring.


My mom always says that "Horses sweat, men perspire & women glow" hehe

(Oh and I lunge until my young horse tells me she's mentally ready to ride, ie she stops bucking and throwing a fit. If she's lathered in sweat when we are done, well that's that, but it's not abuse. period.)


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

MySerenity, I was talking about this with DuffyDuck earlier, and said the same thing. If a horse is going to keep its brain between its ears and work for you - when it knows perfectly well what you are asking of it, little different when you're first teaching them how to lunge - then its lunging session is going to be shorter and its not going to sweat up as much.
But if said horse is going to go ballistic on the lunge, then I have no qualms in lunging until it's brain is firmly back in it's head, and if that means horse is lathered, then so be it, but I am not accepting behavious like that on the lunge, when the bridle is on, it means work time.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

MySerenity said:


> My mom always says that "Horses sweat, men perspire & women glow" hehe...


Guess your Mom never met my mare. Mia believes she is a princess. 

Correction: The Princess!

A princess doesn't sweat. Ever. And I'm not sure what that white stuff is on her at the end of a workout...Soap? Sugar? Dunno...but NOT sweat! But she might be "glowing" - glowing like the sun - I'll tell her about your Mom.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

My horse sweats every time I ride her seriously. And when I went to a dressage barn for a lesson, their horses looked like they'd been hosed down they were so sweaty! xD


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

bsms said:


> I plan to go jogging today. I'm south of Tucson, and I'm going to sweat. Guess I'm cruel.
> 
> Besides, if it is a mare, she doesn't sweat. She perspires. There is nothing mean about perspiring.
> 
> And I am NOT chubby. I'm just prosperous...


If you are really prosperous, the term is "fluffy".


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Well, the first thing I did with Aires was teach him how to lunge. However, it was NEVER about making him sweat or tiring him out. It was about getting him to listen. We still lunge for a few minutes before we ride. Why? To make sure he's ready to listen. It helps me (confidence is still a wee bit rattled from my accident) and it helps get him into the right frame of mind to work. Now it usually only takes about five minutes in the round pen before he is listening perfectly and we can go ride. 

Would I ever work with a horse that I couldn't lunge before I rode it? Most definitely not. It creates respect between the rider and horse. Plus, you can see if your horse is off at any of their gaits before you ever get on them.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

The intention is not to make them sweat, but to have them working correctly and working the right muscles without a rider on their back. If they sweat in the process, so what? They sweat under saddle, they sweat in the paddock. They don't get fit unless you work them to the point of raising their heart rate and yes, breaking a sweat. Just like people. You don't increase your fitness and strength going for a light stroll and quitting before you get puffed


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Hmmm...I've got to remember that.

"How far are you going to run today?"

"Oh, enough to get puffed!"

I would hate to quit before I got puffed... :wink:


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Oh the posts just got worse. I'm cruel for having a flash, riding as a sport and not a happy hacker (I have no issues against happy hackers, I just enjoy dressage..or attempting it!), wearing spurs, in my pictures Duffy looks uncomfortable. I was like pick on me all you want girl, but don't you dare, DARE bring my horse in to this! Yes, my horse is abused, I didn't do a semi rescue by getting her out of the hell hole she was in, and I really, really want to keep her with all her ribs on show. not.

I love the level minded people in here, it makes everything right in the world xD

Funnily enough, the topic was labelled Horses sweat, men pespire and ladies glow and it was an initial post to see how much work horses do and this woman picks through everyyy littlleee thingg I sayyyy. Okay so people come for advice, I give them what works for me, and a fair few other people! They can do what they like with it. But leave my Duffy duck out of it >(

Oh. And I have to wash my saddlecloth every two days as its SOAKED with sweat. Don't know how I'm going to cope in winter.. maybe I should get them to install a heated towel rail ;D


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## sadstory1 (Oct 25, 2011)

this all seems a bit out of hand really. None of us have actually seen this horse being worked into a sweat, none of us have seen the tactics used. I cannot comment on the rights or wrongs of it without seeing it myself. after all fitter horses sweat more. fact.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Glad we're all in agreement. I keep waiting for somebody to say this...so I guess I'll point it out. If you lunge ONLY to blow off steam and it becomes habitual, your horse is going to gain strength and stamina. You'll have to keep lunging longer to wear him out, bc he won't wear out as easily--it becomes a vicious circle!

It reminds me of the story in "Band of Brothers." The 101st Airborne had this vindictive officer in charge of their basic training. He looked for infractions EVERYWHERE, and would make the men jog up Curahee (Mountain) in full pack whenever they broke his rules. These guys were so fit that when they started jump training they were wearing out the jump training officers, and not breaking a sweat!

Horses have a cardiovascular system 25x as efficient as ours. There is NO WAY that you can compete with that. We must use our brains when we train. If it were simple and boring,_ I_ wouldn't want to do it.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Completely agree Corporal!
However, if Duffy has had a day off, I think- lunge first, warm her up, relax her, let her go a bit more forward and get her listening to me. If she decides to have a buck and a fart before I put the saddle on and ride I'd rather she did it on the lunge 

How utterly ridiculous to think a horse shouldn't sweat. I appreciate everyone enjoys different things in the horseworld, however I truly want to get in to it as a sport... sweating is second nature! Glad I have a horse walker on my yard so I can go upstairs and have a cuppa!!

If you know how to lunge properly the benefits are amazing, if you want your horse to run around in circles, well... your choice :S
I will admit, if my horse is being a muppet, I send them forwards, and forwards until they get it out of their system... but under saddle too


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I will lunge a horse to get their mind centered before their first few rides under saddle (and just to make sure that they aren't planning to turn into a bronc just because the saddle is up there LOL). After that, I very seldom lunge a horse unless they've gone without being ridden for a few weeks and I know they are severely cold backed.

And, if a person who makes a horse sweat is abusive, then I must be the devil incarnate as most of my horses end up rather sweaty after every ride, some of them end up dripping with sweat.

This filly was a perfect example, she had a temperament that was horrendous and you had to keep her literally melted down every day just to keep her rideable. Give her 3 days off and she would turn into a bucking, spooking mess. (and, yep, that is a ton of dried sweat all over her)


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

I once owned a 2 Eyed Jack gelding that hated being lunged so much you never needed to put a line on him...he would lope circles, trot, jog, walk around me like he was on a lunge line no matter where he was. Guess he never figured out it was cruel to be lunged.....and sweat too!! and the funny thing is, he never really needed to be worked before a ride...he just liked to show off I think.


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