# Mare stumbles/drops back end?



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

first of all, where have you been? we don't see enough of you here!

secondly, I don't see anything in her build that is out of normal. She is a Fjord horse, no?
very cute and solid girl.

All I can think of is that could it be her rear hooves are too long? have you ever videod her in the actual 'trip'? could it be that her foot is rolling over? I think I"ve felt this before, on a hrose I used to ride that did that. it was as if his hind end would sort of drop out from under me for a sec. I was told by someone watching from behind that he had rolled his foot forward, so that he was , for a second, with the front waall of his hoof on the ground.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I haven't videoed her no but it's possible I suppose. She is just a tad toed out in the backs and when her hooves grow they tend to flare a bit on the insides. Something to look into for sure. Farrier should be coming out in 2 weeks to trim and reset her front shoes.. i'll see what she thinks
And yes, tinyliny, she's half fjord  I've been busy with a new job for awhile but I have some time off so back to the forum I go! haha


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I think it could be physical issue (like a back issue or some problem in her hind end) or it could be as simple as a saddle fit issue. Like the bars of your saddle might be too straight for the shape of her back and dig into her when she canters. 

The reason I say that is I used to have an Arabian gelding and his back end would dip out from under him fairly frequently on trail rides. I was a beginner then and had no idea why. But looking back on it I am sure it was the saddle as I was riding him in a rather flat QH type western saddle and he was an Arabian with a short and slightly swayed back. So looking back on it, I'm sure that saddle was poking into his back and causing him pain, if not constantly, certainly when we went down slopes or cantered. He too had problems cantering in small circles (like in an arena). He showed it by being very cranky while cantering. He was also cranky being tacked up and cinched up. I was so blind! 

But anyway, that would be the easiest thing to check and probably the cheapest to fix. See if you can try another saddle (or two or three) and see if she still has the same problem.


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## k9kenai (Jul 1, 2017)

If you video the trip and find that it's not what tinyliny suggested, you may consider the following:

Have you had her checked by a vet for Wobblers? This sounds similar to how my friend's gelding was first diagnosed with Wobblers. It took a long time for his symptoms to really progress to the point where they were noticeable enough for my friend to suspect Wobblers and finally call the vet out to confirm it. His hind end would drop out from under him similar to how you are describing, although I don't believe Wobblers is as common in smaller breeds of horses such as the Fjord. Here's more info on Wobblers.

NAD/EDM is another neurological possibility, and has been reported in the Fjord breed. There is an article on it here and while she does not meet all of the symptoms it might be worth a read.

I would probably have a vet come out and check her out; she may just need a visit from the chiropractor to have some adjustments.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Some horses have very loose stifles, that go in and out
Toe could be catching
Do you have a video?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

lilruffian said:


> And yes, tinyliny, she's half fjord  I've been busy with a new job for awhile but I have some time off so back to the forum I go! haha



Well, I've missed you and your fabulous artwork! I love, love, love your avatar piece!

and, I , too, think it is physical, but by just looking at the photos of your adorable mare, I cannot see an obvious explanation for this odd 'tripping' thing.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi,

It sounds like a physical problem for sure, but without more detail - vid - can't say what. So if it's been going on 2+ years without correct treatment, it isn't surprising if it's getting worse. Have you had a lameness evaluation done? Ever seen a chiropractic vet or such in that time? That's where I'd start. And I'd quit doing things, like lunging, that seem to aggravate it.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I am no vet and only a vet doing a in-depth exam is going to uncover the problem.

I can tall you that in my own experience Ihave dealt with 2 such examples as you describe.
The first was my first horse I had as a kid...
He had a stifle problem that would "occasionally" stick and felt like he dropped a hip.
The vet saw, knew about it but for the trail riding I did at that young age and us really not knowing it was a problem...we just rode.
He never got worse and his "occassional" stayed as a seldom thing but never a lame step from that horse did he take...
That horse was my heart horse now I know...I look always for another like him, sadly not finding anything to meet that high "childhood" dream remembered.
My second exposure to this...
My friend had a horse that started to ride this way.
Noted immediately we were unsure where it was coming from...the horse was never lame though, would just drop a hip feeling...
She rode some while we searched, nothing demanding {w/t} and called the vet out 10 days later when no improvement was seen even after 5 days stall rest...
In this case it was a torn suspensory ligament...
Partial tear that healed but never the same...
So, please, please do not think it minor.
Please get the vet out to investigate and look with ultra-sound and x-ray, hands-on exam an use the vets training, experience and education to safeguard your horse.

I would hope and pray what ever this is it is not serious, but till those learned eyes investigate it will remain a mystery.
:runninghorse2:.....
_jmo..._


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Take her to a lameness vet with particular attention to her STIFLES. 

Sounds like weak stifles to me. They will feel like they "step in a hole" in the back end.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I will see if I can get a video of her doing it. I've been working a lot lately on getting her to lope off nicely and maintain it rather than just charge off at a gallop like she used to (on the ground). It was clear that she had a weaker hind end and did not know how to use it properly (would not reach out and cross her hind legs when yielding her hindquarters which made for very rigid circling without much of a bend in her frame). 
This was worked on quite a lot until she could physically bend and reach out with her back legs to maintain the circle. 
After that she was worked both online and in the roundpen. When in the roundpen I remember that she never really exhibit the stumbling issue, though she had a habit of preferring to either trot or gallop with no pace in between. This changed once under saddle and last spring when she was in harder training she would lope wide circles in the arena without a hitch. 
The problem started/became more noticeable last fall, with the occasional stumble after a couple of strides, which I assumed was due to her attention being elsewhere because when corrected and pushed harder it went away. Then she was off for about 2 1/2 months over the winter, with the odd ride here and there and then when I started again in the spring the issue was still there and a little more pronounced. Which is why I wonder if it's possible that she may have lost some of the strength in her hindquarters that she had developed last year, or possibly put herself out and needs a chiro adjustment, or if it's what tinyliny suggested to do with her feet, or something more serious.
I suppose i'll have to start with a video and then gradually rule things out. ..
I know that her saddle isn't a perfect fit and so I ordered a new one a few months back but am still waiting on it to arrive. I don't believe that is the whole cause, however, as she does it just as much when moving without a saddle.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

lilruffian said:


> I suppose i'll have to start with a video and then gradually rule things out.


:confused_color:

You mean start with a trip to the vet?



lilruffian said:


> Then she was off for about 2 1/2 months over the winter, with the odd ride here and there and then when I started again in the spring the issue was still there and a_ little more pronounced._


That fits the profile for stifle weakness because time off will usually make the condition worse.


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## crowngem (Feb 22, 2017)

Unfortunately I agree with all of the comments regarding this being a stifle issue. I started off just trail riding and doing fun shows so never really knew why she would occasionally dip in the back end/get the step in a hole feeling and didn't know it was even a problem. However, once I started taking western pleasure lessons on her with a trainer and aspiring for bigger shows, it became obvious that she had a weak stifle on the left side because she could not collect and push off on that side. Also, like you said your mare is, she would rush and fling herself into the lope. She couldn't ever pick up it nicely from a walk or trot. I would definitely try to find a vet that specializes in lameness and have her evaluated.

In the mean time, I would just keep riding her, but nothing too strenuous because as someone else said, time off or time spent cooped up in a stall not moving around makes stifle issues worse. Hill work and backing helps build up stifles. Keep us posted on everything! She is a good looking mare


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Update:
So I had my farrier come out to re-set belle's front shoes and we discussed her hooves as well as the issue.
She thinks that the problem could stem from a few things.. to her it seemed more like her hip was out and not a true stifle issue, which she showed me a few exercises and stretches for either potential issue for belle to do from the ground, along with more backing before and after each workout.
(Will be booking the chiro for next week on my days off)
Also, we haven't 100% ruled out tinyliny's theory regarding her feet... Her backs have a decent length to them, however judging by the wear on them she shows evidence of twisting a bit when in motion (though not ever having the chance to be behind her when she is trotting, I can't see for sure) but the outside wall and the outside heels on each hind foot are worn down significantly more than the inside wall & heels and because of the suspected twisting, she creates a little flare on the inside of each.
Though my farrier says she is not anywhere near the worst she has seen, it is likely that she rides the outside of her heels too much, consequently rolling over once in awhile, which could account for the slipping/dropping of her hind end when asked to lope off on a circle.
So she trimmed and rasped the insides (there was nothing to trim/rasp on the outside so she left it) and leveled her out as best she could. Gonna see how it goes from here. Though I don't normally like shoeing unless it's summer and we are riding more in the mountains and rocky areas, I may consider shoeing her backs later on. My farrier says it will help with the uneven wear of her heels, though if she does have a bad twist going on, it may prove difficult to keep them on
This was a few days ago and I have worked her twice since (going to go out again today) and whether it is because of the stretching, exercises, the correction with her hind feet or all of the above, she seemed to do much better and hasn't dropped her hind end yet


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

I was just about to start my own thread, regarding pretty much the same problem. My mare, Blue, just started doing that. It feels like she is moving her hind end and legs sorta sluggishly, and then at the lope it falls behind. When I tried some slow spins, she almost went into a sitting position.  Needless to say, I got off, and checked her over, carefully. Her hind right leg is a little swollen, but that's all I can find. 

So, I don't really have any advice except that getting the vet out sounds like a good idea!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

lilruffian said:


> (Will be booking the chiro for next week on my days off) ....
> So she trimmed and rasped the insides (there was nothing to trim/rasp on the outside so she left it) and leveled her out as best she could. ....
> consider shoeing her backs later on. My farrier says it will help with the uneven wear of her heels,


Some thoughts on above...
Yes, I'd absolutely find a good chiro vet or other body expert. If she's wearing her hoof so unevenly it's an 'upstairs' issue(as you know). Hopefully the chiro can resolve it, which will straighten out her body _and_ hoof. 

But in absence of bodywork I would be very cautious about 'fixing' the imbalance in her hoof. To try to straighten her up, prevent wear of the outside, may just produce another source of stress. For eg. preventing wear of the outside wall with shoes will cause that to distort more as it overgrows & is under greater stress than the other side. Often best I think, to manage the feet in this sort of matter as THEY dictate, unless making changes *in conjunction with bodywork.


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