# I need some advise for a horse that won't let you touch her tail.



## JazzAngelMom (Jan 28, 2016)

Hello, I am new to this forum and I am in search of some advise for my little paint mare. I have only owned her a few months and am taking everything slow and and like she know's nothing. So far she has been great she leads, ties, soft cues when lunging and touch her all over. The only issue I have had is she does not allow you to hold her tail to be brushed or messed with in general for more than 5 minutes. She has also decided that includes the back feet. 

Now before we go on to the "sacking out" and the soft rope/ towel, I have been doing this. She has NO problem with anything touching her. I can stand on either side about her belly and touch all over her butt and legs and feet. As soon as a hand is on her tail she tenses and lets me know she isn't comfortable. You also cannot go and stand past her hip before she removes her rear end from your reach, be it backing up or moving side to side. Now I have not cornered her to try and I have no desire to be kicked although at this point I doubt she will I'm still not ready to take that chance. 

A farrier with patience can get her feet done with few issues as well. Just something about her tail! I am not new to horses or working with them as I know I will be reading and posting about my problem foster who is a rescued bucking horse, but that is for another thread at this point. I just want to know if I should keep trying to get her over this tail thing and THEN continue training, or should I go the next step and just slowly approach this issue? Thank you everyone!


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## Bedhead (Aug 4, 2013)

She might simply not appreciate having it being brushed out, though what else would you be doing with it that you would need to mess with it longer than the 5 minutes she puts up with (Genuinely asking, only thing I can think of is if you're braiding)? Is her back and pelvis in relative alignment? I'm not sure if a horse can be so out of place that they'd fuss about everything past their hip, but it might be worth looking in to. Then again they may be (and probably are) two totally separate issues.

The other members will probably be more helpful but I'm very much a "is this a fight worth picking at the moment" type of person when I discover a problem. I can't foresee anything super problematic stemming from her being intolerant about her tail being handled (assuming her intolerance isn't a byproduct of some sort of pain in her back or something similar). I used to work with a stallion who'd do anything I asked as long as I didn't mess with the dock of his tail. It was a very strange line to draw, but that was the one he picked; any and everything else was free game.

The tail I wouldn't worry about too much if I were in your position, but I'd be more focused on making pony more compliant about their back feet.


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## Bedhead (Aug 4, 2013)

Also I retract my prior comment about making sure her hips and back aren't out of wack (though having them chiro'd is a good idea anyway, 10/10 do recommend), because if she was fussy due to pain she wouldn't be waiting five minutes to take offense. Exactly what is she doing? Just swishing/pulling it out of your hands? Moving her butt in a "you better quit before I make you"? Some horses are weird about their back feet but I think that mostly stems from prior people being weird about messing with their back feet, so I'm sure she'll get better as long as you're consistent about working her back legs.


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## gee50 (Dec 31, 2014)

I would employ advance and retreat method. Go to her tail touch and retreat. Then again and again holding her tail and stroking it for long periods of time. Starting with a few seconds working through 15, 30 45 seconds to a minute. Anytime she gets antsy, stay in there holding and stroking until she settles down. Then retreat.

When you can do this for 2 minutes at a time then introduce the comb or brush you are using. Be gentle with her. It could be the last owner was rough when combing her tail pulling a lot of hair out. It hurts so she don't want anyone back there messing around. Use the advance and retreat method starting off with a few seconds working up to a minute. Remembering anytime she gets fussy, again staying there until she settles down then retreat. This should only take a 1/2 hour of your time.

As for the rear legs I would use a stick and plastic bags using the advance and retreat method. Be careful as she will try to kill the stick with fast, short kicks to it. But hang in there. Let her teach the stick and bags to go away when she settles down and doesn't move. Timing is everything be quick to retreat. Pull the stick and bags back around to behind you. Then advance and continue the desensitization. Remember to do both sides. Then move in with your hand and arm staying out of the kick zone and starting high up moving down. Do this until you can pick up her leg and hold it.

In extreme case you might have to make a false arm and hand from a branch, long sleeve and glove. Advance and Retreat with good timing. This should only take 10 minutes. Be mindful that if she has never be desensitized with a stick and bags you might have to do her whole body incorporating the rear legs. In this case double the time of you exercise.

This exercise is a great first step to sacking out a horse.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have always just found it much more effective to tackle problems head on. I have always 'hunted up' the problems instead of avoiding them. When you fix the 'hang-ups' everything else falls into place much more quickly. When you avoid problems, they always come back and 'bite you' when you try to do something else. Good manners are good manners and they are not good in this horse. I always recommend that when you have a problem (actually you have two of them) you fix them before you go on. 

There are several ways to fix this. You say she ties. Does she tie very well 'solid' to a strong, safe place that is higher than her withers? If she does, just simply teach her that "Whoa!" means whoa. It should mean that she does not move a step anywhere. If she gets injured on her hip, hind legs or hind feet, trying to doctor her and save her life would be a nightmare. 

I would tie her with one strong rope but would also keep a second lead-rope on her and keep a hold of it. I would start brushing her at her ribs and gradually work my way back until I got to a place that made her get 'fussy' and she tried to move around. That would give me the opportunity to give the second lead-rope a little jerk and say "Whoa!" again. I would want her to learn that "Whoa!" means whoa. Every time she moved a single foot, she would get a little jerk. If you are 100% consistent, I can guarantee that she will learn to stand still in about 15 to 30 minutes. I've done it a thousand times at clinics, 4-H meetings, with clients' horses, etc. It works!

Now, be forewarned that the first time or two, she may set back when you jerk her lead-rope. You do not want to jerk hard. You are not trying to hurt her because that will make her become reactive. You just want a little jerk that is unpleasant enough for her to consider it a small reprimand. Big reprimands make horses get 'reactive'. Horses only learn when they are 'responsive' and not 'reactive'. Save big reprimands for situations where horses become aggressive toward a human.

If you give a small jerk every time she moves, she will first move more, at which time you just step back and let her move around. As soon as she stops and stands still, simply say "Whoa!" and start over. It will not take her long to figure out that she needs to stand still.

[By the way -- this works with hot-bloods like Arabians and TBs as well as colder, 'thick-skinned' horses. Arabians used to be some of the worst mannered horses I got in. Owners kept making excuses for them BECAUSE they were Arabians. They learned just as quickly that "Whoa!" means whoa.]

I would probably also suggest teaching her to hobble. This, alone, would also fix this bad habit, but it would not teach her what 'whoa' means This has many more valuable uses than just standing around hobbled. We use 3 or 4-way hobbles and never just front leg hobbles. Many horses quickly learn to 'hop' with simple hobbles. When you attach a single hobble to a hind pastern and snap a 4 foot piece of rope (with a snap on each end) from the hind foot to the front hobbles, the horse is effectively restrained. It cannot go anywhere and it cannot kick. We do this with each hind leg. It is also how we saddle spoiled horses (not green colts).

Hobble training has the added advantage of teaching every horse hobbled to NOT fight getting tangled up or hung up in a rope or fence or ????. It can be the difference between life and death if a horse ever gets hung up in barbed wire.


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## JazzAngelMom (Jan 28, 2016)

Thank you everyone! I am gonna have a Las Vegas ciro look at her that a friend recommended and check that out first. She appears to be fine but you never know. I also had a farrier check out her feet to make sure she didn't have a problem there as she was in a round pen full of mud for long periods of time before I got her. 

When I mean she fusses she tenses and makes herself tall. She kinda tucks her tail in and just moves away.If I am really pushy and not taking her stance as a no she just moves away. I was getting her all brushed out and braided as her tail is on the ground at this point and just wanted to brush the mud and nasty stuff out of her tail.

She does tie but if she is not exercised before being asked to stand without attention she tries to dig to china. So far I have it to where we lunge a few times and just move some before being tied and she will stand quiet. 

Also she does have some scaring on her legs and the top of her tail. Being only 3 I cannot imagine why they are there but they seem to be the issue. Today I tried touch and release and she seemed a little more relaxed without me pushing to see how far she could take it and it worked well with shorter time. I just have to remind myself slow and change direction. 

As for the tie and use another lead rope I will try it. She is very sensitive so even the lead rope jiggling too hard she stops. We have a long road to go down and any and all advise is appreciated and tried. I'm not gonna try a saddle till she gets seen by the ciro to make sure there is no issue and we end up with an injury before we even get far on our goals.


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## JazzAngelMom (Jan 28, 2016)

Just an update for those who have commented on my problem. I got in touch with a vet and she is in good health. Vet believes something may have spooked her or someone hurt her to not let her tail/ feet be touched.

I also moved her from where she was boarding to my house and most of her problems have stopped. I hate to say it but I think someone there was abusing her as now I can touch her tail and back feet with my hands though picking up her back feet is still a work in progress. She takes a bit no problem and we will soon be working on the saddle. 

She seems to be much happier having some trees and shade and love all the time instead of only when someone fed her, which I also found was only happening once a day even though I paid for her to be fed twice. Some people really shouldn't own horses.


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## Long trails (Jan 15, 2016)

teach her to stand still every time she moves lunge her four a wile then repat till she stands still


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