# At what age can i ride my filly?



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You CAN, but not if you don't want her possibly broken down and crippled by the time she's 15 y/o.

She's still a baby, and the longer you wait to put her under saddle the better it'll be for her both physically and mentally.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I have a 2 1/2 year old filly myself and have started saddle breaking her but have not ridden her for any longer than a couple minutes at a time..instead of hopping on your filly have you worked on ground driving her? I did that with mine for months before I got on her back plus it will help her get use to cues from you without being able to actually see you and it will help supple her up to direct rein cues as well


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Sally Sue said:


> Could I ride her before 2 1/2 years? I would like some input!


Could you? well sure you could, any many people do..

Should you? I personally believe that you shouldn't, at that age still very much a baby, the body and brain are still developing. Lost of short sessions getting the ground manners in place, yes to tacking up, ground driving is a great idea. Later in the year sitting on her for a little while, short walks, then I'd leave her for another year.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

We broke my gelding out as a 2yo. Because of life and other circumstances, he got minimal riding and then basically sat for a couple of years. When I got back on him as a 5yo, it was like riding a COMPLETELY different horse. He was more mature, both mentally and physically. He understood better what I was asking and had a better attention span. If I had it to do all over again, I'd wait until he was AT LEAST 3.5-4 before backing him, regardless of how ready he looked (he was 15hh and 1100lbs as a 2yo).


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Depends on what you want to use her for. If just general riding (i.e., NOT looking to doing any type of futurity, which she would be late for in training anyway, or showing), then personally I would wait.

My Arab mare was started at 4. It was a good age for her and, although we later got into showing regularly, for the 1st 3 years or so after she was started we just did general trail riding. She's 17 now and fit as a fiddle.

My AQHA mare (now 6) I bought at 2 and she already had 40 rides on her. She was bred & started for the NRCHA Snaffle Bit Futurity but they decided not to do that with her which is how I got her. After I got her we did regular ground work and some limited riding, but I mainly let her grow up some. We started regularly riding when she was 4. She has had no ill effects from what I can see from being started WAY younger than I would have started her and, although we are now regularly showing, she is in good condition and doing well with the schedule. 

From your limited information, it does not sound that there is any rush to back your filly right now. Give her more time. Mentally and physically she'd probably be better for it.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

i start all my colts at two. I have never had a lame one. For years the two people I trained with did the same - There are horses at the barn that were started at two and are now kids lesson horses at age 20. 

The stigma around starting two year olds comes from a lot of people who do not understand that there is circumstantial factors. 

1) I'm very small. I'm 100lbs on a good day. These colts have no problems with me.
2) Usually, when you start one, they are stout enough. If I have one who is exceptionally tiny, I will wait a bit longer.
3) You're not running their legs off. Exercise from you is not going to impact them negatively unless you are dripping them into a foamy sweat every day and putting them up wet and heaving. You ride one long enough to w/t/c a few circles, you walk them out, you work on your lateral movement and you put them away. Many of mine do not ever even break the tiniest of sweats.
4) A good horseman knows when to back off. If you are riding one and you aren't getting anywhere, and it's frustrating,the horse is displaying discomfort, you stop and turn them out again. End of it.
5) Horses are different. Every single one. Most of mine have been ready to start at two because that is how they are bred. They are strong athletes from birth and they take to it like fish on water - But something I'll get a client horse who is just not ready, and I will tell them to take them back and come to me at a later date. Some horses do fine and will never have an ill effect, others are train wrecks.

I find unsoundness in later years happens with horses regardless of being started young or not, and even the studies posted against it tend to omit the facts that conformation, ride time, other care, genetics, etc also can play a part in lameness. I've seen horses started at five who were lame throughout their life just because they were THAT much of a train wreck in their conformation. High withers, straight shoulder, tiny legs, straight posts in behind trying to run barrels or work a cow. Smh.

Start your colt if you think he's ready. You are his person and you know you can read him - If he shows signs of not being ready, go backwards and give him a few months to grow up. If he does fine, keep riding him. You'll be glad you did.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

She is at the best stage for training. Whatever you teach her now will last a life time. By that I mean that she stands quietly for mounting even if you use a block. Backs a little, turning, whoa, etc on a very light rein. Keep the riding to about 20 min and give her things to keep her interest. All those young horses we see reining, cutting, racing, as two yrs olds are pretty much finished by 5 or 6.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

JMO: the two things against starting younger are lack of mental maturity and lack of growth plate closure. The first is something you can work with by going slow, backing off when it is too much for your horse to handle, etc. There's lots to do with a young horse besides riding it. 

Growth plates don't finally close until about the end of the fourth year, varies according to breed and individual. This is why horses worked too hard too young break down. If you are small and your filly is stout, gentle riding seems okay if she is mentally ready for it. The problem is that human beings are not very good with "that's enough". We always want to press on, do more, go faster, harder, longer, more precisely, etc. If you are not that kind of person, and can always stop before, not after, it is going to be too much . . . well then.

But it's a lot safer to work on the ground, driving, etc. until at least four.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

That is where being a horseman comes into play.

I suppose I should ask, OP, have you ever started a colt before? Do you have someone who can help you?


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## SeaBreezy (Jun 29, 2012)

Found this article...very interesting read:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/ArticlesPDF/Timing%20and%20Rate%20of%20skeletal%20maturation%20in%20Horses.pdf

It makes some great points about how not only is it important to wait for the growth plates in the legs to close, but also the vertebrae. Have you ever seen a two year old being ridden? 9 times out of 10 they have their back hollowed out with their head up in the air. I've had many trainers and instructors tell me over the years "Oh, it's because they're learning to find their balance." When in actuality, it is because they are simply following their natural instinct to protect themselves. The cartilage in the vertebrates take the longest to turn to bone, the last being at the base of the neck. Putting pressure on a perpendicular axis to the legs is not as unnerving to horses as the parallel pressure on their backs. Just think about it - someone pokes you in the back, your natural instinct is to hollow your back out to recoil away from that pressure.

Just some food for thought. I would personally wait to start 'riding' him until he's 4 years old, but like the article said, 'starting' him is different. I would want to wait until he's at the very least 3-3 1/2 years old to actually back him if it were me. But every horseman has their own theories about when it's okay to back a colt...I just tend to take a more scientific point of view for it.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Understanding a bit about body & skeletal development, 'growth plates', etc, I'm of the strong belief that it's way too early & I wouldn't be *seriously* starting a horse under load(under saddle, harness, high impact stuff...) until around 4yo.

BUT I do also agree fully with Sorrel's 'circumstantial factors', if not perhaps to her degree of them. If for eg. 'starting under saddle' just means some light, short(5-10 minute, say) rides by a light rider, I don't think that's likely detrimental to a 2.5-3yo. If you did the same but longer, & introduced some cantering to a 3-4yo I don't imagine that would be a problem either. But do bother to learn about body development & how weight bearing & high impact stuff can effect easily damaged, soft bones & joints, so you can make the most informed decisions on what may constitute 'too much'.

Look up Dr Deb Bennett's 'Ranger Piece' for a table of skeletal development.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

SeaBreezy said:


> Have you ever seen a two year old being ridden? 9 times out of 10 they have their back hollowed out with their head up in the air. I've had many trainers and instructors tell me over the years "Oh, it's because they're learning to find their balance."


Alternatively it's because whoever was riding them didn't know the first thing about starting one and letting them be balanced.

And if they did, it was in the early stages when forward is more important than round. Roundness and collection don't come unless you go forward, and horses don't come built with the "Squeeze with your legs and push them up into the bridle" que. They don't even come equipped with "Leg make go". That is human taught. Get on a a horse of any age and for a while they are not going to travel rounded. Two, three, six, twenty - If it's their first few rides they won't. That's all.

It comes back to common sense. It doesn't take a large amount of intelligence to notice if your colt is ready or not. I might add as well - Most colts started properly ARE ready. The ones who aren't are usually the ones who are displaying discomfort because of poor starts, not because they are too young and mentally immature - But because their starters don't have a clue.


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## Triumvirate (Jan 24, 2015)

The best trainers I have ever met started horses at two (unless it was deemed the horse should wait a while longer before being started). After they started them, they were put out to pasture to be horses again for a while and then would pick back up again when they're older. The "work" in question was never over 20-30 minutes and the trainers knew when to call it a day. They didn't try to force the horse into too much all at once, just bite size amounts. This did not negatively affect the horses in the long run.

Also, why are we so peculiar about growth not wholly being finished in horses but we allow young humans to be put through very strenuous exercise? I played basketball since I was in the fourth grade among other sports and when I became a freshman in high school I was made to lift heavy weights with the rest of the team and run hard for long periods of time. Everyday, my practice was three hours long that included distance running, sprinting, drills, a weightlifting routine, and an ab workout. I was 14 years old. There's NO WAY I was a fully mature human yet but people don't like that a two year old horse gets simply started? BTW, I played for a few more years and the exercise had no negative impact on me other than being too tired to want to do homework at the end of the day.

And to the OP: if you have to ask, maybe you shouldn't be the one starting the horse under saddle.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

My impression from the original post is that the OP is impatient to get this horse under saddle and start trail riding her right away, not doing a few short training exercises. 

Horses and humans aren't comparable physically or mentally, so I wish people would stop trying. That's nothing more than anthropomorphic thinking. Study the skeletal and muscle structures of the horse at different ages, as well as their mental maturity rate.


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## Triumvirate (Jan 24, 2015)

Speed Racer said:


> My impression from the original post is that the OP is impatient to get this horse under saddle and start trail riding her right away, not doing a few short training exercises.
> 
> Horses and humans aren't comparable physically or mentally, so I wish people would stop trying. That's nothing more than anthropomorphic thinking. Study the skeletal and muscle structures of the horse at different ages, as well as their mental maturity rate.


It's not anthropomorphic thinking to make anatomical and physiological comparative analyses between the growth and maturity of two different species. Or maybe it is, other animals for sure don't do it. Also, I didn't know, which is why I asked. I was ignorant of the matter. I also didn't make any mention of a mental aspect in the second paragraph.

And I never would consider hopping on for a trail ride without having started a horse first under saddle which, to my remembrance (and correct me if I'm wrong), had not been done. To me, it sounded like she was asking if she could ride her horse before 2 1/2 years of age.


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## Hackamore (Mar 28, 2014)

If it were my choice I would not start colts till 3 to 5 years depending on confirmation and muscular development. 

Unfortunately clients bring me 2 year old's every year to start under saddle. This is dictated by industry/show requirements but in some cases only because the owners are just impatient. Most of these youngsters are not physically or mentally ready for much riding, but we start them successfully and they go on through life. With that said when we do start 2 year olds it is our responsibility as trainers to balance progress so as not to push these youngsters beyond their physical & mental limitations while riding a fine line between advancement & maintaining positive attitude. At the end of the day whether we start them at 2 years or 20 we have still an obligation to train in a manner that does not push a horse beyond their physical abilities & that allows for a horses feeling of confidence.

Best of luck in your decision.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I also have a 2 yo filly. I have zero intentions of backing this filly for probably at least another year. When she is 3 I plan to back her, but no serious riding. I also believe that babies should be babies and allowed to grow. I'm not showing her so in no real rush. I'd rather spend more time on the ground with her teaching her some manners first. I have messed around with her a bit; throwing blankets and saddles, etc on her and will likely ground drive her a bit late in the summer. She is still too immature; physically and mentally.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

I've started riding all of my young ones at 2 for the past 30 years but.... only with a light English saddle, light rider (under 120lbs) and no more than 10-15 minutes at a time. Never had one harmed from it or come up lame.

Understand that at 2 you will start out with a completely confused, slightly wobbly youngster, not really learning much more than a little leg pressure and directional control; the real training doesn't really start till 3. Starting them at 2 lets them get an idea of what carrying a saddle and rider is all about. The challenges really come at 3 when they decide that this is work and your training methods better be pretty sharp to continue.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree with Sorrelhorse.
Starting a stock horse at two, not pushing that horse, recognizing when to back off, in fact, helps to create stronger skeletal system
Many of these horses are still going fine, in their twenties.
My old reining mare, that i started at two, is still sound at age 30
Many people get hung up on the age factor, and completely disregard the nutrition that horse receives, growing up, esp correct mineral balance, the management of that young horse, far as letting him grow up in large pastures with peers to play with, and correct conformation, that helps a horse stay sound under work

'Studies in horses have shown increases in the density of the cannon bone and third carpal (knee) bones during training. This is an important adaptation to the stress of training because bone density or bone mineral content--a measure of the amount of mineral in the bone--is an important determinant of bone strength. However, the intensity of training has an important bearing on this response.'

The entire article:

Are Your Horse's Bones Tough Enough? | TheHorse.com


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## Triumvirate (Jan 24, 2015)

I think, all in all, OP, that it's a personal decision on your part and whether you think your horse is ready for it and can handle it. I don't know you or your horse and I don't think any of us here can really tell you at this point a yes or a no. What we can do is give you our experience. Yes, what you see about two year old's growth plates and joints not being fully mature yet is absolutely a hard fact. But there are also quite a number of horses started at 2 that go on to have long, sound riding careers. There are also some who get worn down really early in life. It ultimately comes down to you reviewing the facts, seeing others experiences, knowing your horse, and making an informed decision about when your horses gets started and by whom. Like Hackamore said, it's about what's doing right by our animals instead of what _we_ necessarily want to do.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

STacy Westfall was asked this question, and here is her reply:

"Ugh-oh…I don’t think I should get in the middle of a mother daughter thing, lol.Does light exercise benefit growing horses? How do you define light exercise?
The easiest and best way to be comfortable with it is to ask your vet when he/she is out for another call; shots, etc. They can give you the best advice because they can see and touch the horse.
I have asked this question to many vets over the years and the following points have been made:
there are studies that suggest that some stress is good for healthy bone and muscle growth
it is possible to overwork a horse of any age
listen to the horse, stay slow and steady, if in doubt ask a vet
The problem comes in defining what ‘some’ stress or ‘light’ work is, as each human will have a different opinion on it. I have known young horses that were raised on 17,000 acres and others that were raised in five acre pastures and it is easy to see that the amount of ‘normal’ daily activity varied greatly. Especially in smaller settings another question could be, ‘Are we raising equine couch potatoes?’
Jac was two when I started him in the videos and I am watchful when I work with any horse. I look at it very much like my own children. I want my kids to be active because they need some stress for muscle and bone growth too…but I’m not drilling them for hours every night either.
As for settling the argument, I don’t think you will find one clear answer out there and….remember, ask your vet


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Quite honestly I'm getting tired of walking on egg shells about it. I'm just the evil one who starts poor fluffykins are two and rides her until her teensy little legs fall off and she'll be lame by the time she's three. Feels like wearing a scarlet letter sometimes.


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## Cowgirlupyup (Jan 31, 2016)

*Personally I would say 3 to 5 years old. I would not ride her before then.*



Sally Sue said:


> Hi. I have a filly that I am training. She is good at all the groundwork. I have laid on her back and rubbed her all over. I have saddled her and she didn't buck. I have done groundwork with the saddle on. I plan on her just being a trail horse to ride. Could I ride her before 2 1/2 years? I would like some input!


Personally I would say 3 to 5 years old. I would not ride her before then. :cowboy:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Triumvirate said:


> I was made to lift heavy weights with the rest of the team and run hard for long periods of time. Everyday, my practice was three hours long that included distance running,


No one(in their right mind, I'd hope) is suggesting EXERCISE is bad for any age. You weren't made to carry a great lump on your back. If you look further than your experience, to consider that, you will find damaged humans too. No, of course it's not uniquely damaging for horses in the least. And again, it depends on time, weight load, what you're asking, etc. For eg. when I was a kid I often 'piggy backed' my little brother & gave him 'horsey rides'. I could say 'so that activity is not harmful to anyone' or I could consider that perhaps his weight, the amount of time I did it for and the lack of... trying to jump over things, sprint, etc, while he was riding me, might have some bearing on the outcome.

In fact, growth plates aside, general exercise/fitness is very relevant here too. Exercise, among other things, strengthens bones. They used to think weightbearing was important for this, but it's more about aerobic exercise that's important for maintaining/improving bone density. Many horses, of whatever age, live in 'cushy' little paddocks(if they're lucky & not stuck in stables or yards) and get stuff all exercise. Unfit horses don't cope so well with being ridden. And perhaps we also need to consider that 'easy' riding by a light rider is still perhaps better for these horses than nothing, if that's the alternative, because at least they're getting the exercise....


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Smilie said:


> Many people get hung up on the age factor, and completely disregard the nutrition that horse receives, growing up, esp correct mineral balance, the management of that young horse, far as letting him grow up in large pastures with peers to play with, and correct conformation, that helps a horse stay sound under work


Yes, absolutely. & that's why, I believe, we have these very 'subjective' discussions about it, with some people even going so far as to say it's 'just personal preference' & stuff. Because there are a fair few more factors in effect than just age/skeletal maturity. It's like the '20% weight rule' - there is no black & white, but that's not to say it's 'just personal preference' & cannot be considered objectively. Just need to consider ALL the factors to be more objective.


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## SillyStallion (Feb 7, 2016)

There is a lot of talk about strength of leg bones - that really isn't the issue. The last bones to stop developing are the bones in the spine (and not fully until 6-7 years). So many horses started young end up with sacroiliac problems and kissing spines sue to the back being nowhere near ready to carry (even a lightweight) rider. 

They did a study in the UK on retired racehorse spines (I'm in my phone so can't link to it but it's available on Google), and when xrayed, 80% showed fusing and spinal protrusions. Standard practice is to back in their second year.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

loosie said:


> Yes, absolutely. & that's why, I believe, we have these very 'subjective' discussions about it, with some people even going so far as to say it's 'just personal preference' & stuff. Because there are a fair few more factors in effect than just age/skeletal maturity. It's like the '20% weight rule' - there is no black & white, but that's not to say it's 'just personal preference' & cannot be considered objectively. Just need to consider ALL the factors to be more objective.


I think we agree, Loosie!

There is the opposite extreme- young horse kept confined, never allowed to play with his peers, esp running over all kinds of terrain, perhaps having off set knees, poor bone, perhaps fed high energy diet, not supported with the right amount of protein and minerals. You bet you better not start that sucker until he is at least five, and even then, likely to have problems, caused by poor hoof and skeletal development, conformation defects, possible OCD lesions, ect
I'm all for not pushing a young horse knowing when to back off, versus using things like hock injections,with the thought that you can then push that young horse to the max, but I, like Sorrelhorse, get tired of the dogma, that should you start a two year old, you are automatically jeopardising future soundness, and anyone starting a horse before all growth plates are closed, are doing so to the detriment of the horse.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

SillyStallion said:


> There is a lot of talk about strength of leg bones - that really isn't the issue. The last bones to stop developing are the bones in the spine (and not fully until 6-7 years). So many horses started young end up with sacroiliac problems and kissing spines sue to the back being nowhere near ready to carry (even a lightweight) rider.
> 
> They did a study in the UK on retired racehorse spines (I'm in my phone so can't link to it but it's available on Google), and when xrayed, 80% showed fusing and spinal protrusions. Standard practice is to back in their second year.


Race horses are an entirely different scenario. They are run, at speed as tow year olds, thus start training as yearlings. They are not started lightly-but work at maximum speed, carrying a rider
To top that off, they are kept confined and fed high energy diets.
A race horse, would be the equivalent of studying young horses pushed to a major futurity.
I don't think the OP is looking at running the Triple crown, winning the three year old NRHA futurity, or competing in the Tevis Cup!


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## SillyStallion (Feb 7, 2016)

Smilie said:


> but I, like Sorrelhorse, get tired of the dogma, that should you start a two year old, you are automatically jeopardising future soundness, and anyone starting a horse before all growth plates are closed, are doing so to the detriment of the horse.


But modern veterinary science has shown that this is very much the case. People's opinions on the matter really doesn't have any bearing on this - it's just a shame when the people with contrary opinions are the ones doing the starting of the education.

I have a 'friend' who started their horse at two and a half, was schooling fully by the end of their second year, by the end of their third year jumping 1m10 cross country fences and competing at the start of their 4th year. By the end of their fourth year they went up in the grades. At the start of the 5th year the horse went lame - multiple stress fractures to the legs. On further investigations they found the horse also had had 4 spinal protrusions and sacro iliac issues too. The horse will never be more than a field ornament now. My own horse that was 2 years behind this horse in training - a fact that I was ridiculed a bit for - is completely sound, strong in the back and will hopefully have a long ridden career.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

SillyStallion said:


> But modern veterinary science has shown that this is very much the case. People's opinions on the matter really doesn't have any bearing on this - it's just a shame when the people with contrary opinions are the ones doing the starting of the education.
> 
> I have a 'friend' who started their horse at two and a half, was schooling fully by the end of their second year, by the end of their third year jumping 1m10 cross country fences and competing at the start of their 4th year. By the end of their fourth year they went up in the grades. At the start of the 5th year the horse went lame - multiple stress fractures to the legs. On further investigations they found the horse also had had 4 spinal protrusions and sacro iliac issues too. The horse will never be more than a field ornament now. My own horse that was 2 years behind this horse in training - a fact that I was ridiculed a bit for - is completely sound, strong in the back and will hopefully have a long ridden career.


You are talking of jumping a young horse. Not exactly starting them lightly, and jumpers are known to develop that jumper bump, or what ever it is called.
I am talking of starting a two year old lightly, maybe showing in some rail classes, maybe a trail class , going on a short ride over the local fields,
I don't take a horse out west, to ride in the mountains, until they are late three year olds, and then only for day rides
I started my reining mare when she was two, in the spring. I did not show her in reining, until she was a late three year old. As a two year old, i just gave her some show experience, at local open shows, actually in pleasure classes
In her time, she won reining , western riding, cattle, games events, went on mountain hunts, and raised many foals.She is still alive today, retired, sound at age 30. She had her last foal when she was 24
Research depends a lot on population selected, and you will note that in the link i Posted, than mentioned another study, early conditioning helped to produce stronger bone in race horses, but done correctly, and not the way race horses are trained at the moment.
Again, the OP is not asking if she can do cross country on a young horse-just start that young horse lightly under saddle!


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## Triumvirate (Jan 24, 2015)

loosie said:


> No one(in their right mind, I'd hope) is suggesting EXERCISE is bad for any age. You weren't made to carry a great lump on your back. If you look further than your experience, to consider that, you will find damaged humans too. No, of course it's not uniquely damaging for horses in the least. And again, it depends on time, weight load, what you're asking, etc. For eg. when I was a kid I often 'piggy backed' my little brother & gave him 'horsey rides'. I could say 'so that activity is not harmful to anyone' or I could consider that perhaps his weight, the amount of time I did it for and the lack of... trying to jump over things, sprint, etc, while he was riding me, might have some bearing on the outcome.
> 
> In fact, growth plates aside, general exercise/fitness is very relevant here too. Exercise, among other things, strengthens bones. They used to think weightbearing was important for this, but it's more about aerobic exercise that's important for maintaining/improving bone density. Many horses, of whatever age, live in 'cushy' little paddocks(if they're lucky & not stuck in stables or yards) and get stuff all exercise. Unfit horses don't cope so well with being ridden. And perhaps we also need to consider that 'easy' riding by a light rider is still perhaps better for these horses than nothing, if that's the alternative, because at least they're getting the exercise....


I'm sorry if that didn't come off clearly. I didn't mean made in the sense that I was created to lift weights. I meant made in the sense that the coach made me lift them if I wanted to remain on the team. And I only merely meant to use my experience as an example not impose it on the rest of everyone, and in no way am I condoning it. I do think I was pushed too hard at that age and I know people pushed too hard at that age who have issues now. I personally managed to get out with none. That part of the post was only meant to point out the peculiarity that a lot of people think nothing wrong with putting a not fully mature human through work but putting a not fully mature horse into a little bit of work is a big evil no no.

And I'm on the team that two year olds can be started and live sound, sane lives. I feel like a lot of people just assume that because a two year old isn't completely mature that he's going to literally fall about into a steaming pile of blood, organs, and shattered bones if out through a little work. They think trainers are going to ride them as long and hard as mature, finished horses and that is simply not the case. The best trainers I know can start two year olds because they know what they're doing. They know what that horse can handle and for how long and those horses turn into sound, sane winning money earners because they were started right by knowledgable, experienced horsemen. I think all in all we agree with each other here. I think you might have taken a different meaning than what I intended.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Triumvirate said:


> I do think I was pushed too hard at that age and I know people pushed too hard at that age who have issues now. I personally managed to get out with none. That part of the post was only meant to point out the peculiarity that a lot of people think nothing wrong with putting a not fully mature human through work but putting a not fully mature horse into a little bit of work is a big evil no no.


Oh OK, thanks for explaining, because yes, it did come across as the opposite actually. But your last bit above... I don't think you'd find many people who appreciate damages done to young humans that would be oblivious to the same issues in horses, or vice versa. ...Which brings us back to...



> And I'm on the team that two year olds can be started and live sound, sane lives. I feel like a lot of people just assume that because a two year old isn't completely mature that he's going to literally fall about into a steaming pile of blood, organs, and shattered bones if out through a little work. They think trainers are going to ride them as long and hard


**As a rule** I am against starting 2yos, BECAUSE people make ignorant assumptions... such as racehorses & futurities are raced as 2yo so that means anything I do on my baby horse is fine. So, like the '20% weightbearing rule', I think it's safer to say that. People who are either ignorant of the details or uncaring will always push the boundaries. Of course, with any 'rule' IME, there are plenty of exceptions, conditions, 'yeah-buts'...


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, I am the human equivalent of 'being started early"
At a young age, I worked hard physically. This was work in the tobacco fields, helping my step dad carry stuff-in other words, I stressed my skeletal system
I figure I am as active as I am, today, survived cancer, still ride at age 70, hike, in spite of knee replacements, often ride three horses a day in summer, trim all of my horses, simply because my skeletal system was challenged at at a young age.
Today, we are raising 'couch potato children,have type 2 diabetes on the rise, and affecting younger people, due to this type of thinking- that all work should be avoided until all growth plates are closed
This is simply not true. I know of horses started later in life, that have soundness problems, simply due to bad conformation
We have way more horses being ruined by neglect, sitting out in pastures, with no one willing or able to work with them, and make them useful.
I just came back from an all breed horse sale, and the number of sound young horses, never worked with, just driven through at auction ring, with only the meat buyer interested in buying them, very discouraging
Those horses would have had a way better future at life,lightly started as two year olds, or early three year olds
It is a no brainer that a three year old should not be jumped, as the spinal growth plates are last to close, and the wear on the spine of jumping horses is evident by that 'hunter's bump'
It is also a no brainer that major purses are on the young horses, whether that be racing or some performance futurity, and common sense tells us that in many cases those young horses are going to be pushed, and warning signs ,treated not with backing off, but by using chemical help
Afterall, if some business person has major bucks invested in that production of the horse, or purchase, and then the training, common sense tells us that the horse will be pushed, helped with whatever medical support, in order to try and win back those expenses and investment, at the compromise of future soundness of that horse
None of that applies, to starting a young horse lightly, no competition deadlines in consideration, and the light work , ridden, is beneficial.
If you lightly start a young horse, never resort to joint injections, other chemical interventions, listen to that horse, and back off if he should indicate that need, then I truly believe there is no harm done, and in fact, that horse has a greater chance of longevity of soundness under work
I have ridden enough horses that I started young, sold, and they went on to long term soundness, that I truly believe this fact


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I agree with Smilie.

I am always so proud to look at my colts, and my mother's colts before mine. Many of them are still sound. The colts my mother started were my show horses as a kid. I still keep track of the ones who are still alive. Many, many of them are sound - All started as two year olds. I think out of the seven or eight still around (In their mid to late twenties), only one is not sound - However also bearing in mind he was lame twenty years ago, on and off since he was first a foal on the ground. Hardly one caused by bad starts.

Then I look at the people who I have worked for. I started eight two year olds at my first ranch. All their mothers were there, had show careers, and yes they were futurity horses. Every single one of them was sound. Fast forward, all those eight two year olds are still sound - They're coming five now I believe, maybe six - Some are running barrels instead of cow work, but every single one of them has been shown successfully and remains sound. A few are now kids horses. 

Then, on a larger scale, as a teenager a group of four of us worked at another ranch. We were all the same age. This ranch had fifty or sixty horses on it at a time. All four of us started colts. We were assigned a group and we rode the horses in training until they were ready for more finesseful work from the head trainer. Now this is where it gets interesting - Three of us never had lame colts. Never. We had injuries from other things like fences and kicking, but never from riding. However - The fourth, the only boy among us, to date has a high percentage of lameness and even injuries from exercises that resulted in colts being put to sleep. Seems interesting doesn't it, that the one who got on and whipped, kicked, spurred, and cowboy'd the horses around is the one who has the casualty count? I've got the pictures, I've got the videos, I've got the testimonies from owners. Towards the end people started requesting the three of us instead of him. Needless to say his career as a colt starter ended before it began.

It's one thing to say you can start a colt. It's another thing to actually be horseman enough to do it. I don't get colts to the point where they are stressed. I don't get them dead to the world. I don't kick on them, I don't jerk them around or run their legs off. Yet they do get ridden. They lope circles for me, they learn how to turn around and work a flag or pattern on the barrels. It's a part of their career - Teaching them early to carry themselves and move fluidly is huge, and it's amazing because if you have the knowledge you can do it in a way that doesn't effect them negatively. Yeah, my two year olds work a flag - But they aren't cutting. They're long trotting down freely, stopping, and doing a 180 turn before they long trot freely to the other side and repeat. My colts lope a barrel pattern - But it's so fluid, it's so smooth. It's not run up, pull, jam their hinds into the ground and kick them out and make them run. It's lope up, shape inside leg, set the hip up underneath them, lope a big fluid circle, break to a trot, change leads, repeat next two barrels.

This foundation builds their strength and sets you ahead with your horse. They will be big, strong three year olds. They will already have an idea of what they are supposed to do. When they are three and four, they aren't stressed either - Because they're already prepared for their jobs. You ask them a little more. You add a little speed. You ride a little longer. At the end of that year - As four year olds, they're broke. That's that. You can ride them anywhere for the rest of their lives, and suddenly you're decreasing ride time again because they already are solid animals. 

Sure you can say my sample size isn't science, and I won't disagree with you - However the horse world isn't black and white. You do what feels best for your horse and yourself. You listen to the horseman who have done it for decades, and you learn. You see it for yourself, and if you don't you simply can't understand. There's no way to explain to someone who does not know, how much of a horseman you have to be to start a horse like that, at any age. So I suppose it's not going to change anyone's opinion, or even make them open their minds a little, but at least now it's out there.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Smilie said:


> Today, we are raising 'couch potato children,have type 2 diabetes on the rise, and affecting younger people, due to this type of thinking- that all work should be avoided until all growth plates are closed ...
> We have way more horses being ruined by neglect, sitting out in pastures,


Yep, that's what I was trying to get at with my exercise comments. IMO it's not just _helpful,_ but *necessary* for health, to motivate(force if you must, with kids:icon_rolleyes heaps of exercise! 

I don't for a minute think our couch potato societies has anything to do with growth plates & people believing exercise in kids should be avoided - people are just lazier these days... & also the media has encouraged us to think we live in 'dangerous times' so that we're not so willing to allow our kids to just go off on their bikes, go bush bashing, whatever, like we used to as kids.



> It is a no brainer that a three year old should not be jumped, as the spinal


Yeah, unfortunately I think that sort of thing is only a 'no brainer' for switched on, knowledgeable people, who are not 'the masses' & that is why I think we need 'safety chain' guidelines like no weightbearing on 'open' growth plates, etc.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Again you can't compare horses and kids....

I come from the UK, where our tradition is not to start horses until a lot later, but the youngsters are not couch potatoes, they are out getting exercised in a herd situation on turn out, so they are fit and hardy. In a lot of places the youngsters are turned out on 'less favoured' land, usually hilly or rough, or both, to teach themselves how to move.

They get started later, but they are not at any detriment to waiting, exercise does not have to be bearing the extra weight of the rider for it to be effective.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> Again you can't compare horses and kids....
> 
> I come from the UK, where our tradition is not to start horses until a lot later, but the youngsters are not couch potatoes, they are out getting exercised in a herd situation on turn out, so they are fit and hardy. In a lot of places the youngsters are turned out on 'less favoured' land, usually hilly or rough, or both, to teach themselves how to move.
> 
> They get started later, but they are not at any detriment to waiting, exercise does not have to be bearing the extra weight of the rider for it to be effective.


True, it does not hurt to start them later, with those horses growing up in full time turn out, but it also does not hurt to start them sooner, as SorrelHorse mentioned, done correctly.
Why wait until a horse is 5 or 6, when you can start their education earlier, and enjoy them under saddle?
I started Smilie as a two year old, and she was in a big futurity that fall (32 two year olds) placing in the top ten under all four NSBA judges. She earned many ROMs since then, year end hi performance awards, ect, went on many mountain rides.
Unfortunately , I did not know she was IR, but I attribute to how long she remained riding sound, because I rode her, which helped control her IR, for more then ten years
Smilie, about 2 1/2


Smilie 3 year old, "Classic ' in performance at Horse improvement



Smilie, two years old



Smilie 13 years old


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Golden Horse said:


> Again you can't compare horses and kids...


Why not? We're all mammals, essentially built the same.


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

I think it's okay to get her desensitized to someone on her back, personally, just not hard riding.
I have a long yearling (calling him two in March. That's approximate bday) , and over the past two weeks or so I've been properly sitting on him and asking him to turn for maybe 10 min max. Then I get off. That's what I'd do. But I would do that, and then if that doesn't take long, do a ton of ground driving until he's a bit older (maybe 2 and 1/2). Of course, Mav is my 1st colt so take my opinion as a grain of salt.


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