# Horse maybe permanently unusable, what now?



## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

*Bump*


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Oh, and just to give you an idea of how hard it is for me NOT to ride, when I got my concussion and was told, "No more riding for two weeks." I snuck out of the house at 5 days...


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## NavigatorsMom (Jan 9, 2012)

I would have a vet or chiropractor out to see the horse to determine if she really is un-rideable before you start making all these plans or worrying about scenarios.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^I think there has been history on this already NM. Ebony, you have 3 horses in your 'barn' here but neither of the names listed. What about them??

And Wispa is the new little pony that you're starting under saddle, that's way too small for you? Sounds like that would be the one to sell, as there are 'issues' there with experience & training anyway & presume Midnight is the unridable one in question? So chances are, you wouldn't get anything for her, except maybe for meat, and she might not get the care she needs in a new home.

Regardless, the buying of a horse is the cheap part. Ensuring you have the funds to care for it adequately is where the real costs come in. Why not lease a well trained horse, that you, and also your little siblings can ride?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I haven't updated my barn in forever...Wisper I just barely got and I love her to death. Would never want to sell her. She will be my baby sister's eventual mount. Plus, tricks, pony rides, possibly lessons, hand jumping, etc etc etc. They problem isn't that we don't have the money, it is my mom and dad don't really care for another horse. If I buy it and everything, fine, but they don't want to buy another. They are against leasing because they feel like they are "borrowing" and if something happens they want it to be their horse it happens to. I really really really don't want to sell any of them.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

NM, she has had a vet out twice to look at her with 2 different treatments that were more like a "Well, I have no idea what this is, so let's try this for a while and see if it fixes the problem."


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

yes, can you explain who is who? midnithgt? 'my pony in training" same horse? two horses? three?. color me confused.

and, why would someone buy a horse with a sore back? if you can't ride her, don't want her, it's likely to be hard to find someone who will BUY such a horse.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Midnight-horse with back problems.

Wisper-pony in training that is being bred.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

See, you seem to not have enough money to provide care and are ready to dump Midnight for another horse. Personally, with Whisper being untrained, I wouldn't breed her. Then she'll be off for several months and you'll have to begin training over again ALONGSIDE everything else you do PLUS a foal. 

I would focus on everything you have to do at hand. Call a vet. Get Midnight looked at by a professional. See if she needs a chiropractor. Focus on Whisper's training, plus the lessons, school, camps, and every other thing.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

You said in this OP that you were considering selling one of them to fund a new horse, but now you say you'd never sell the mini. You also say you're going to breed the mini(OK, I'm holding my tongue(hard) on that bit). You have had other horses in the past that are gone now(??). You have a horse with undiagnosed back problems & you have accepted that she is unridable because of this, but you're willing to ride a little pony that is way too small for you, so you'll be likely doing HER back serious damage. This pony is untrained & you are inexperienced, and you are training her for your baby sister & considering breeding her(OK, I'm trying to hold my tongue on that bit). Your parents aren't experienced, or keen for more horses. 

Yes, leasing a horse is indeed effectively borrowing one. IMO all the above adds up to, if you must have another horse to ride, probably best for the horse to do this than take on yet another that might also have to be passed on as unsuitable, especially as you don't seem to know if you're Arthur or Martha with your horses, and you don't appear to have any rational adults to help you make good, objective decisions.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

From what I am reading, Whisper is a green pony you're training up (+/-) breeding and selling her is not an option.

Midnight is unridable and the treatments tried thus far have not worked.

And you would like to be able to ride.

How old is Midnight? What is the long-term plan for her? If she is indeed unsound for riding, where are you going to keep her and who is going to pay to keep her for the next however many years until she dies? A horse that is permanently unsound is best euthanized IMO. If you can't give her a retirement home, the places/people that might be able to are rare as hen's teeth and these horses are worth nothing on the market other than meat. Better to euth them than pass them along to people who might not care about such things like humane treatment.

If you're not willing to euthanize her and get a new horse, it sounds like you're stuck not riding and getting vets and chiro out in the hopes you might be able to fix her somewhere down the line well enough to ride. 

With two already and you wanting to breed a third, getting another, that would add up to four is no small amount of horse feed and care to pay for. Maybe you can lease a trained horse for riding until Midnight is dealt with (either sound or otherwise), but even if you find a good one for free, I think financially that you may be over your head. Unsound horses take $$, breeding horses takes $$, and foals take $$$, and that's if everything goes well. Buying horses is the cheap part.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

So, if you have a horse that is unable to be ridden due to back issues and you have a mini that really you should not be riding. Your parents are not going to want to spend money on buying a horse (never mind that stud fees, ultrasound, vaccines for a pregnant mare, special feed etc all cost money). Why not take some lessons? See if you can find a local stable that will allow you to work in exchange for lessons. You get a horse fix, you get to learn to be a better horse person and you don't have the expenses of purchase and maintaining a horse.

If would encourage you not to purchase a horse because it seems likely to have you end up in a situation with another unusable horse. You are in essence going out into the horse world looking for the following: specific color, youngish, well broke for children to ride, sound, sane horse, that costs not a lot of money. Its sort of like finding the city of atlantis, really really difficult and possibly impossible to find. I just don't know that you won't get taken by a dealer in any given exchange and end up over your head.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

The same vet has seen this horse twice, and cannot give you an answer as to whether it's muscular, skeletal or nervous system? I would invest in a new vet, it will be much cheaper than a new horse.

She has had a sore back for a few weeks. It took 6 weeks for us to work out what was wrong with my dad's mare. Then we had to wait for the operation date, 8 weeks of box rest and 4 months of rehab to see if she would ever be ridden again. And she was.

Financially, from previous threads, it would appear that your parents are not keen at throwing money around (i.e on your bother who was screaming that his neck hurt.) If you are paying for the insemination, vet care and after care of the mare/foal you're currently attempting to turn in to a riding/trick pony, then who is going to fork out for a new horse?

You have a horse, find out what is wrong with her before you disregard her. No one will want to buy a horse that can't be ridden, she'd be a free pasture pet or need to be put down.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Here's your options: 

1. Try to find the unsound horse a retirement home (accepting the facts that she's out of your hand after that) and/or euthanize her. Then you're free to breed your mare and spend the money on that, or (your best bet imho) save up and buy a decent riding horse. Sad fact is you can't do both, very few of us could. 

2. Keep her, pay the money to POSSIBLY get her sound again (but plan that she will never be sound for riding again); breed your other mare, spending the money to do that and have a break from riding. But know that in this option if you pursue treatment you will not have enough funds to breed your mare. (Talk to me about it: I spent $15,000 trying to keep my mare alive and well in ONE WEEK, unfortunately she passed away as it was a disease the vets had never encountered. That threw away any plans and funds I had for an additional horse.)

If I was in your situation I would think long and hard how much this horse means to me. If she's like my mare was (a one in a million, I will literally do anything for this horse, I don't care if she eats my pasture for the rest of her life and does nothing else type) I would be hauling her to an accredited university, and face the news that way. Then make a decision that way. 

I would NOT be breeding a mare who's too small for you too ride, who's unproven and is going to cost $$$$$$$. Trust me, it's a mistake. You want to ride, you don't have a rideable horse. If I was in your shoes I would sell the pony mare, focus on what I was going to do with my unsound mare, and depending on that start saving money to buy a DECENT riding horse. 

Also take from my experiences, the majority of free or cheap horses are ones with injuries or the ones who will get you hurt because of issues. And as for your vet... I get having a difficult case but that's no excuse for them NOT referring you to a university or other office!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

We have had a couple other horses. Gingersnap and Ladybug were the first. My dad had a friend that needed to get rid of his race bred horses but never raced. My mom and dad were looking for horses because I had wanted one forever (not a good idea ^^) So, they took these two in. They were completely wild. Hadn't been worked with for years and years. My dad worked with them for a long time and it got to the point that I could catch them and lead them around, brush them, and just love on them. Riding was still my dad's thing, though, because they would buck, and roll and all that jazz. Finally, after they weren't going anywhere, we decided that we needed to get a kid horse and sell them to someone that would use them. We traded them to someone that would use them for barrels (they were sired by darkelly) for some money, saddle, and Ebony. She was "my real first horse" I loved her so much, still do. She taught me everything and without her, I definitely wouldn't be training Wisper right now. She died of colic. 

So, we went a long time without a horse. My parents surprised me with Belle and her baby (wasn't weaned and the owners had to get rid of her that day so they were giving us a discount to take both) Well, that is all fine and good, and we still have Belle, but me and her....don't click. at all. I ride her and everything occasionally, but it just isn't enjoyable because we just don't. It's hard to explain. People think any horse can be your best friend and it's not true.

So, we still have Belle. After figuring out that, yeah, my sister clicked with Belle, but I didn't, we sold the colt (didn't have the experience for him yet, either) and got Stormi because we were told that she was very well broke. Well, she wasn't. I posted about her several times. Short story, she bucked, I got concussion, she would charge, kick, bite, whatever. So...we sold her too (still didn't have the experience)

I know, we've gone through a lot of horses. Then, came Midnight! Now she is definitely a keeper. I didn't click with her at first because she looked just like Ebony(exact same markings and everything) and it...I don't know...made me bitter that she could be so much like her but not be her? Anyway, slowly we gained that bond, and now, it is as strong as it was with Ebony. Definitely a keeper.

Then, Wisper! Definitely a keeper, too. Only had her 3 months and she has already gotten better about spooking, and has been rode twice. Plus, she is proven, and her baby was amazing! 

I guess this didn't come out in my post. I DON'T want, or necessarily NEED to sell any of them. If I sell, I have money to buy a horse. It's not that my parents don't have the money, they just don't want to spend the money on yet another horse. Roman, we do have the money, that's why a vet has been out twice and probably a third time. That's why we have a shelf full of meds/treatments for her.

We know how much horses cost, we've been owning them for 3 years.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

You've had that many horses in three years? Either that is extreme bad luck, or you're just not learning from bad experiences and keep making very fundemental mistakes.

Firstly, if your vet keeps telling you he can't find the issue _get another vet_. Any vet who can't give me an answer needs to me and my animal on to another experienced vet, or I get online and do my research to find a vet that can help. If your horse cannot be ridden, then she is in discomfort. If I am in discomfort, I go to the doctor to have it investigated and get painkillers, physio, MRI.. whatever. Your horse can't pick up the phone.

Three years is NOT a long time. I have been around horses for 12 years, and I can hands down say I need help, and lots of it, and will go and find it.

My honest advice. Get a different vet. Secondly, do more research in to your horses, your trick training, your reasons and need to breed etc etc. If you gave a colt away due to lack of experience, what makes you think you can deal with one now? Do you have someone who will give you daily hands on experience and help? I know you're young, and horses are exciting, but you need to slow down and look at the bigger picture and think of what is best for you and your animals.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> We know how much horses cost, we've been owning them for 3 years.


Owning for three years doesn't give you qualification to breed and raise a foal. From your post, you sounded inexperienced until about your last two horses (Belle & Whisper)(may have gotten the names wrong). You've sold a ton of horses in so little time. You need to sit back and actually think about your skill level and the horse you'll buy. You don't sound like you've had the ponies very long, that does not make you experienced and ready for a foal. You need YEARS and I mean MANY years, not just a short 3.

I've owned my horse for almost 5 years, have been taking lessons for 1 year. I thought that I was ready for a mustang two years ago. We were SO close to adopting a yearling last year, but our farrier talked my dad out of it. At the time, I was mad. I wanted to be like someone else that had mustangs, I wanted to show everyone I could do it. I kept trying again, even writing up an "info" thing to try and get my parents to let me do the St. Louis EMM. Didn't work. 

Do I still want a mustang? Heck yeah!
Do I think I'm ready? No...

I had a talk to myself one day when I was riding and was getting frustrated with Roman. Roman has problems, I can barely fix them but I will. If a mustang is tougher than him, I'll wait.

I've realized my farrier, everyone here on HorseForum, my riding instructor, and my inexperienced parents were right. 

Its similar to raising a foal. I am not ready for a mustang, foal, yearling, 2-3 year old horse! I don't think you are either. We're in the same boat together but I'm taking the right passage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

That was 3 years ago. I am way better now than I was then. Plus, it will be smaller and I will have it from the day it's born. If I fail to train it, there is a person that lives nearby that said they will train it for me as long as I let them go out there with it everyday.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> That was 3 years ago. I am way better now than I was then. Plus, it will be smaller and I will have it from the day it's born. If I fail to train it, there is a person that lives nearby that said they will train it for me as long as I let them go out there with it everyday.


Lol. It being smaller and you having it from birth won't make it miracle baby that is self trained.

If you don't make the right decision and do breed her, at least for your sake and the foal's sake, let the people train it if they are experienced.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

The reason that I couldn't train Stormi is because I was scared of her, mostly because she was bigger than me. Wisper has problems, she gets scared, she bucks, but it doesn't scare me because I am bigger than her. I know how to train a foal, just never done it. If, if I need help, I will get it.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> That was 3 years ago. I am way better now than I was then. Plus, it will be smaller and I will have it from the day it's born. If I fail to train it, there is a person that lives nearby that said they will train it for me as long as I let them go out there with it everyday.


 
Three years is nothing. A blip. Especially if you don't take regular lessons either on the ground or in the saddle.

If you aren't confident you can train it, or get the help you need to train it, and know there is a possibility you will have to give it away, why breed?

I still stand by what I say in regards to midnight. You need a second opinion. A horse should not be allowed to stand, undiagnosed, in pain or discomfort.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> The reason that I couldn't train Stormi is because I was scared of her, mostly because she was bigger than me. Wisper has problems, she gets scared, she bucks, but it doesn't scare me because I am bigger than her. I know how to train a foal, just never done it. If, if I need help, I will get it.


 
Because you're BIGGER than her?! :shock:

Ebony, if that pony wanted to drag your around the houses then she could. Your size means nothing. To think you can over power a horse due to its size is asking for trouble.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, I know, haha, it is just, I don't know, more reassuring I guess in my stupid brain. I know that, it just makes me more comfortable.  Going to get Midnight checked out...again. Right now she is one pain meds so it's not like shes in pain, she's galloping around the pasture all happy right now, haha.


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Ride Belle if you really, really need to ride. Doesn't matter if you "click" with her or not, she's there and ridable.

This gives the other one a chance to heal.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, that is what I have been doing when it gets super overwhelming, Red Gate Farm. It is hard to explain, though, it just isn't very enjoyable with her. It's not like she's a bad horse or anything...


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Proverbs 19:20
Listen to advice and accept instruction, that you may gain wisdom in the future.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I know how to train a foal, just never done it.


This makes no sense. How can you possibly know you know how if you've never apprenticed or worked with someone to do so, let alone done it yourself?

Agree with everyone else, if you are worried enough about your current mare that you think she is unrideable, then I would definitely be prioritizing a full work-up with a new vet.


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## TamandNickP (Mar 14, 2015)

Oh, but to be young again. I've been there. I wanted a horse from the time I was old enough to know what one was. I was never allowed to have one. Not enough money, no place to keep it, etc. Smartest thing my parents ever said to me. "NO" I truly would have been in over my head, as would my parents. Had my first horse given to me at 16. A neighbors horse that I use to ride for them. We were the same age. He was smarter than me. I was the green one. He taught me a lot. I use to read all about horse care when I didn't have one, I still do. It's still a learning experience, even at 51. 

A lot of good advice has been given to you here. I would say, have your horse checked by another vet. Do all you can to see if you can help it. Because they are right. There are so many horses out there that no one wants that aren't lame. It will only end up in a bad place if you try to get rid of it, unless you can find a good-hearted person to take it on as a lawn ornament.
Second, finding a farm were you can take lessons and get to ride as much as you want is an awesome idea. That's what my niece did. She was taking lessons and wanted extra time to ride and my sister could not afford to pay for more lessons, so my my niece worked off her riding time. She loved doing it. AND, it was great experience for her. Good Luck with your horse. I hope you and your vet can figure out how to help it heal.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I will get her looked at again. We thought maybe it was because of how she was trimmed last time but got a new farrier that trimmed (I thought) correctly and still in pain. I have worked with a foal before, just not trained from start to finish, and I have trained some things with full grown horses. Even if I couldn't do it to begin with, I am not going to quit. I will get help, research, pay a trainer, whatever but I will end up training.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

:think:


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Don't know what you are trying to show me, Sue, but it won't open the pic.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

unimportant kiddo.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I prefer 

:shock::shock::shock::shock: :? :shock::shock::shock::shock:


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

pretty much


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

I had a whole reply typed out and then just said "heck with it." Not worth my circus or my monkeys.

Guess it shows the fine line between those who care deeply for horses as part of their being better equestrians, and those who just objectify horses for their own selfish needs.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

CaliforniaDreaming said:


> I had a whole reply typed out and then just said "heck with it." Not worth my circus or my monkeys.
> 
> Guess it shows the fine line between those who care deeply for horses as part of their being better equestrians, and those who just objectify horses for their own selfish needs.


Really? You know, I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I guess it is time that I just leave horse forum. No matter what I do or say everyone on here thinks I am this horrible person that doesn't care about her horses. I have given every penny I have earned in the last year for horses. I care about my horses more than anyone I know. So, bye everyone. Maybe I will come back when Wisper is getting close to foaling, but I guess that depends on whether people will get mad at me for breeding MY horse, or if they will actually give advice that IS ASKED for. Bye


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## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Really? You know, I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I guess it is time that I just leave horse forum. No matter what I do or say everyone on here thinks I am this horrible person that doesn't care about her horses. I have given every penny I have earned in the last year for horses. I care about my horses more than anyone I know. So, bye everyone. Maybe I will come back when Wisper is getting close to foaling, but I guess that depends on whether people will get mad at me for breeding MY horse, or if they will actually give advice that IS ASKED for. Bye


God, I would like to get your parents alone in a room for a little chat...


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I think the reason people get upset with your posts is because each time you ask for advice, I notice you tend to take the answers people give you and throw it back in their faces, then get upset at them for telling you something you do not want to hear. Simply because you have an answer does not mean it is a right or good answer to the questions people are asking. 

Please bear in mind nobody here wishes you harm, or doesn't want to see you become a better horse person, or doesn't want to see you succeed at your goals. But we also have all been through the fire in one way or another with horses. 

When someone is telling you "No, that's a bad idea", it doesn't mean we're going "NYEAH, WE ARE MEAN ADULTS WHO ARE MEAN, WE LIKE IT WHEN OTHER PEOPLE ARE SAD, ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY'RE DUMB" - we are honestly and truly trying to help you see reason here. 

Almost everyone in this forum started out exactly like you - a horse-crazy kid. We're YOU. We're you in 10 years, 20, 30 years and onwards. We want to save you a lot of the pain (sometimes literal), heartbreak, and hard lessons we've had to learn along the way...mostly because we didn't listen. 

I remember the days of enjoying sharing my passion with adults when I was young. But it took me until I was a lot older to realize adults worked hard to earn their knowledge and their place in our community - and some have paid dearly for their mistakes along the way.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I understand where you are coming from, Mulefeather. I do not, however, understand how telling me that I don't care about my horses and am a horrible owner is helping me.


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## liltuktuk (Dec 16, 2011)

Oh good lord.

No one is being intentionally mean to you. We're just trying to look our for your horses best interest. And in that regard yours too.

You sound very young, how young I have no idea. Your parents sound very disinterested in having horses for any reason other than color and because they can. Sounds like they also don't want to spend a lot of money if they don't have to.

The way I see it is this:

1. You have a mare with a sore back. Either get every vet in the area out or haul her to a clinic until you find out what's wrong with her and what your options are. Either she can recover and become sound, or you have to accept the fact that she's going to be a pasture ornament or need to be sold or euthanized.

2. You want to breed your pony. Ok, I don't agree with this idea, but you can do what you want. But just remember, you're breeding to have a foal that you'll keep forever and ever right? What about college? Or when you move away from your parents? This pony is going to end up being too small for you and by the sounds of it too small for but the youngest children. Are you going to train it to drive and possibly pull a cart? Or is it just going to be a trick pony? Why don't you just train the current pony to do these things and not spend the money to breed her to make a duplicate of what you'd have with her? Or go rescue another pony from an auction? There's sooooooo many unwanted horses right now. You could probably get 3 for the price to breed one. But that's just my opinion and it sounds like you've made up your mind.

3. You want a horse to ride. You're either going to have to save up and buy another, or sell one of the ones you have to buy another.

Life's hard, owning horses is hard and can be heartbreaking, welcome to the real world.


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## mariahreeves (Mar 9, 2015)

The money you are looking to spend in breeding, training a foal, buying a new horse etc etc etc etc could go towards making your horse with back pain more comfortable. Horses aren't commodities, they are animals and rely on your judgment to survive. I would look at your motivations behind the options you have at hand and determine what the "right" thing to do will be. If you do the "right" thing, everything will work out to be rewarding.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

We are not being mean at all. We are looking out for you and your horses. You're going to spend a ton of money on your horses and the cute wittle bay-bay, you'll have none for college, a car, college books, etc. 

From your posts, I don't think you are ready for a foal. I've been around horses longer than you and have realized I am not ready for a foal - or even a halterbroke mustang.

I'm not being mean but am honest. That is the hard truth. You may not like it but down the road you will realize we are all right. I was blinded, and set in my ways concerning a mustang and everyone was saying it was a bad idea. Then I realized they were all RIGHT. I'm not ready. The idea of having a foal or mustang is wonderful, but that's what blinds us and keeps us from thinking in reality.

Really, you'll be a much better owner, rider, and trainer if you take on a rescue. One you can actually ride. 

You'll be better off in the long run that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I have a few thoughts. First three years is not nothing but it is not much. I have over twenty years of horse experience and I am just now thinking I am ready to break a young horse. This is because I can't just get rid of a horse and I don't want to create problems. I have "fixed" problems other people have created and its much harder than just training correctly the first time. I think you should research the problems that horses can have during delivery before you breed a mare. While complications are rare, when it is your horse that does not mean much. 

I don't think you are a bad owner, certainly not by intention. I think you are a kid and you are trying to do your best. The problem is that your parents are not interested in horses, its okay many people are not. Your parents want you to be happy; however, they don't understand what makes a good horse. This means that they give you advice which is a problem because you are young. That said with horses you need a mentor you can trust and who has experience. I think you need to try to find a mentor and listen. Sometimes people particularly on the internet don't say things as gently as they could.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I know how to train a foal, just never done it. If, if I need help, I will get it.


Understanding theory & principles is a great thing, but if you haven't done it, don't kid yourself that you know how - that's like studying musical theory & saying you know how to play the piano... or know what the brake & accelerator pedal do so you can drive a car. Please consider that if you are going to do this, you WILL need help, and start off with it from day 1, not after you've stuffed things up.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Wisper has problems, ... because I am bigger than her.


Off topic here, but just registered this bit... she sure does have HUGE problems if you're actually bigger than her & even sitting on her back, let alone riding her! Poor girl!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Ebonyisforme said:


> No matter what I do or say everyone on here thinks I am this horrible person that doesn't care about her horses.... depends on whether people will get mad at me for breeding MY horse, or if they will actually give advice that IS ASKED for. Bye


Actually, I personally do not doubt that you care, but considering the small amount of knowledge & experience you have, combined with your 'I know better & you're all wrong' attitude, that's just not counting for much. If you actually rationally consider what has been said, most of it is extremely relevant to what you asked, but you are not willing to seriously consider the advice YOU ASKED FOR.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm going to be bad for moment for a good reason. 

Horses at the Cranbury or better known as Camelot Auction house. It's owned by the Carpers, killer buyers with a history. Frank Carper is one of New Holland's most notorious. But there a plenty of others.

Equine Protection Network -Horse Hauler Faces $11,100 in Fines

With sales license withheld, 40 horses from Cranbury auction house could be slaughtered | NJ.com


Go ahead and breed that pony. See where it ends.

I have a horse with a pedigree that's incredible. I have no urge to breed her. There are too many horses out there that are not wanted. Unless a horse has a great show record and matching pedigree don't, just don't. You want another cute pony? I see two really nice looking broke ones on Carper's list.

This story repeats itself all across the country, Flame, Agawam, Sugar Creek, New Holland only the names and faces change.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Quite honestly I do not care if you breed your pony or not. Your business and not mine. 

I look at horses a bit differently than most here on the Forum. I love them and I loved the years I spent training them. I had some exceptional horses that I trained who went on to do some exceptional things. 

That said, other than the first horse I owned, I never loved a horse so much that I would not sell it. Never. I also never sold a horse because we did not "click." I do not really know what that means. If I am not doing well with a horse then it is be because I don't know enough and I need to learn to read that horse. 

Meanwhile you have a horse with a sore back. If it turns out this horse is not rideable and is permanently that way, I would cut my losses and in fairness to the horse put her down. Simple animal welfare. 

I would also figure out how to work with this horse you do not click with. That is the job of a trainer and such horses make you better at riding and better at training. Anything counter to that is whining. I do not hold with whining. Pull up your pants, tighten your belt and figure out this horse and how to work this horse. That is all this is. WORK. It will only make you BETTER. 

If the pony is too small for you to ride, don't ride her. If it is a pony. It might be a Miniature horse, I do not know. 

With only the pony (soon to be preggers) and Belle you have enough horses. Save your money. Get odd jobs. WORK. Earn yourself a new horse and be very careful what you buy. Save the $500 for a thorough prevet exam. Do it right. 

While you are saving and figuring out things, let Belle make you a better horsewoman. That is her job and becoming a better horsewoman is your job (all of our jobs is to become better). 

JMO. You are not a horrible owner. You are just young and want things NOW. Age and responsibility will take care of that. This whole business is actually good for you as you take a step back and must figure out what you HAVE to do vs what you WANT to do. 

Best wishes!


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## liltuktuk (Dec 16, 2011)

Sue - Wow, so many decent looking horses at that sale. 

OP you could get a very nice horse for a steal from an auction like that. Everyone always thinks that horses at auctions are there because they're unsound or have training issues. But a lot of them are there because their owner's are just looking to unload them due to financial reasons. Please consider this avenue before you breed your pony. Heck you could probably find your future trick pony and a riding horse at the same auction.

I was looking to breed my Arab mare a few years ago. She's built decent, has a personality I mesh well with, but has no show record. I was looking to breed to create my next endurance/trail mount, and have the experience of breeding and raising my own foal (aka a forever horse). I had even picked out a local quarter horse stud who I knew well and had a decent pedigree and nice conformation. The foal would have been registrable as Half Arabian, it would have had good all-around arab breeding on one side and reining/cow quarter horse breeding on the other. 

I'm 28, done with college, living on my own, and have a career that supports myself and my hobbies. I looked at the cost to breed and the risks I would be taking with my mare and decided I just couldn't do it (and I can save way more than the $50-$100/month you're saying you'll be able to save towards breeding/vet costs). I ended up finding a 6 month old grade colt on craigslist near me. Add claimed he was an Arab/Paint cross. He's definitely has Paint in him, but what else is in there, who knows? He's built wonderfully, has beautiful movement, and has a puppy dog personality. I paid $350 for him (which was honestly higher than he was worth, but he was in a crappy living situation and I had fallen in love). He's almost 2 now, I have all the joys of raising a young horse, all I missed was the first 6 months and I'm thrilled with my decision. He's going to be a wonderful mount when he's all grown up.

Do I still ever consider breeding? Possibly, not with my current mare, she's 15 years now and has never been bred so I wouldn't risk that with her. But with the experience I've had with purchasing my colt, I'd probably be more inclined to go that route in the future. Find a foal with the pedigree I want and start working with it as a weanling.

Please really consider getting a young horse from an auction (or craigslist or other sales site) before you breed your pony. A lot of your reasons for wanting a foal are naive. You mention how you'll be bigger than it, well I can tell you right now that doesn't matter at all. My colt wasn't that big when I brought him home, and he still dragged me 50 feet through the snow when I got him off the trailer trying to get to the other horses. Because he had no idea to give to pressure and he was freaked out of his mind. So please don't think that just because it's smaller than you it'll be easy to deal with, it can still seriously hurt you. 

And to breed something that you won't even be able to ride when you clearly want to ride??? I'm sorry, but I just don't even see the point, that makes no sense to me.

Please really think about everything you have going on right now. Spend the needed time, money, effort, etc. to figure out what is wrong with the mare with the sore back. She should be your top priority right now. Then really think about the breeding you want to do. Consider all the pros and cons, research everything that could go wrong, and really think about where the future is going.

Sorry for the narrative, I'm just really trying to look out for you and your horses.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Kiddo if our advice seems harsh it's only because the majority of us have been there, done that and got the 'you screwed up' card. I know for me personally breeding was a great idea when I was younger. I looked into sires and dams, promised to train the colt myself, thought I had it handled. Then I began working at a breeding farm and realized I was WAY out of my league. Same goes for training. I thought I was a competent trainer in my younger years, then I actually got into the work and apprenticeship, got put on a green horse, came off literally two seconds later and realized that I had a WAYS to go. 

My biggest mess up however was buying another horse before I was ready. My parents gave me an option (I was 19 so hence why I was given an option): taking into account me being at college and having those debts, working a part time job and trying to pay off my mare's vet bills as well as my homeowner bills they would go in half with me on anything I wanted. Well, I had been offered a yearling colt by my boss (he would be mine and I would only pay board, geld him and then work WITH my trainer to take my first colt from ground up). It was either him or a car and I chose the colt. Well long story short, stuff happens, I lost my job, I got sick, I dropped out of school for personal reasons. True to their word my parents are half in with this colt and I walk everywhere. I occasionally borrow a junk car but I've learned to be even more handy with fixing it when it breaks down on the side of the highway, learning to walk 20+ miles in all weather and being just generally broke. I'm the person who goes to a restaurant once a year and orders bread and water, I google how to fix whatevers broken around the house, I went out and found a roofer to teach me how to roof. I work sun up to sun down and twice as hard as the day before because of my choices. I personally can live with it. I accept the fact that I made a bit of a mess up and jumped the gun, but I can't say that I would go back straight away and change it. However, I know it's not the same for everyone. When I realized my mistake I had my parents, my trainer, and my friends who supported me doing the best I could to fix it and make the situation better. Had I not had them, or had I been at an age where I could not easily get a full time job and be in charge of my finances 100% (so aka not a minor) I probably would have sold the colt, bought the car and taken lessons instead of owning. 

Guess what I'm trying to say is that we're not trying to be hyper critical nor insinuate you don't take care of or love your horses. We're making these comments to get you to avoid the mistakes that we made or at least in the magnitude that we made them.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Sorry, sounds like the OP has read too many books and watched way to many movies............ All rainbows and glitter. All happy endings with untrained horse being turned into super horse, or pony. No real experience. 
If I had a dollar for every nasty, spoiled, unmanageable horse/pony I have seen or been around "trained" by someone who "knows" how to train them , I would be rich.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

The reality of horses (and life, I'd wager) is that I used to think I was a lot smarter than I am now. I cringe when I think of how 'smart' I was 5, 10, or 15 years ago. Hopefully I can ever be half so smart as I thought I was then.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Sorry, I think that anything is possible as long as you don't give up. I am going to start working (AKA getting him/her used to me) with foal day it's born. I am going to get a equine chiropractor out and see if she can do something for Midnight. I am going to save up for a horse. Financial things have been going really really really well for me the last couple of days and I will now be able to save about $250 a month!  Any other suggestions for Midnight? Or for me, without telling me how naive I am being? (not meaning to set everyone off, just don't want anymore of that.)


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Growing up, my dad used to say "you can have anything you want, but you can't have everything you want". That was his way of saying that anything was achievable and I could do the things I wanted to do and get the the things I wanted to get *BUT* I just couldn't do everything and get everything. There was always a choice to be made, where I had to say no to something in order to get something else in return. Because that's the way Real Life (not Fantasy-LaLa-Land) works.

I think I really learned what he meant when I became financially responsible for my horses. There was a time I had just one, and when it became possible for the second to reenter my life, I had to make choices. Then when my mare was on/off lame for the last year, it meant more choices -- focus on riding the gelding while she healed, spend the money to have the vet (two actually) and the farrier work with me to get her back up to speed.

I've never thought of breeding her, even though she has supposedly been bred twice in the past. She's a grade, and of the breed registries that do allow partbreds, I don't want to breed her to a stallion of those breeds. Besides which, just because she has a uterus, doesn't mean it needs to be used, and her conformation is such that I'd have to find a stallion that would offset her flaws and hope that the foal turned out better than she does. And of course,there's the cost of breeding an older mare, just getting her cleaned and prepped and at the point where she could be bred runs too dear for my pocket book. Easier to just find a youngster already on the ground.

And despite the fact that I have 15+ years experience as an equestrian, having done Pony Club and lessons for many many years and owned 3 horses, and have had hands-on experience working with 3 foals, one of which I was involved with from birth, I wouldn't even consider a youngster at this point. For one thing, I'm not financially capable of taking on a third mouth to feed (particularly if it means less "fun money" for the other two, I'd rather buy tack or whatnot for them than have a third horse) and I'm not in the mindset for a young horse. I work too hard in a Real Job, I'd rather enjoy the trail rides and recreational driving, etc. with my trained horses as a hobby. Time may tell though, if I ever get down to a single horse again, about whether it's possible for me to take on a weanling or a yearling, or even a two year old.

In the meantime, I just remember the lesson my father taught me, and I remain content with the wonderful opportunities that I have been blessed with. I've gotten to do things with horses not very many other people have, I have two great horses that mean a lot to me. I never want more than I should be grateful for having. Too many of my friends have had to give up horses because growing up and becoming an adult means having to make choices about putting food on the table or keeping a roof over your head. Luckily, my circumstances have allowed me to keep what I love, and for that, I am thankful.


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I am going to get a equine chiropractor out and see if she can do something for Midnight.
> Any other suggestions for Midnight?
> Or for me, without telling me how naive I am being?


See what the chiropractor does first for Midnight. This person may have your answer. If not, come back and let us know what happened. The experienced people on this forum will have more suggestions, but you have to rule out things one at a time.

For you? be patient and see first if the chiropractor can help.

This thread started, I believe, because you wanted to know what to do for Midnight and her back. Concentrate first on getting her better.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Elana said:


> ... we did not "click." I do not really know what that means. If I am not doing well with a horse then it is be because I don't know enough and I need to learn to read that horse.
> ...
> .. figure out how to work with this horse you do not click with. That is the job of a trainer and such horses make you better at riding and better at training. ... Pull up your pants, tighten your belt and figure out this horse and how to work this horse. That is all this is. WORK. It will only make you BETTER.
> 
> ...


I so agree with Elana, and am glad someone brought up Belle, whom the OP has left out of the picture altogether.

OP may we see a picture of Belle please?

I do think there may be a fear issue creeping in here. A teenager would not want to recognize or own up to it, but it could be there, and the reason for going to smaller and smaller horses.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I am definitely not scared of Belle, haha, when she first came to me, yes, because she would charge me in the pasture :shock: but I worked with her and now she is good, but I am not scared of her and not just saying that because I am a teenager.  She isn't even 15hh, but here is pics of her. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/15yZYo3MwvAjFy8SdxV37VuIQVTSZm-3GMCEpoHEmbJA/edit?usp=sharing


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

So what is "wrong" with Belle? She looks like the one to be working. 

Very nice mare!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks, Greentree! Nothing is 'wrong' with her, she just isn't the right horse for me. When I ride, I don't feel the joy I feel when I ride Midnight or my neighbors horse or other horses I connect with. It's not like I haven't given it time, there was period of time when I rode her every day. I just don't feel the same. She is definitely my go to for a horse fix, though! She is awesome, just not the right horse for me, my sister and her are amazing together. Thank you though, she is very pretty.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Ebonyisforme said:


> ...
> So, really, I don't know what to do. I have to ride. I am training my pony, ... she is too small ... I would totally miss the entire warm season of riding and not be able to ride for like 6 months.
> 
> Or, I can just not ride.  Or, I can sell Midnight. :shock::-( Or, I can sell Wisper:shock::-( and use the money to buy a horse I can ride. ... Opinions? Support? Anything? I haven't rode for like a month and I am DYING!


Thanks for posting a pic of Belle, she appears to be a good option for a riding horse.

Certainly riding a nice mare that is right there, right now, in your pasture is better than DYING from not being able to ride.

Why is it that she is not involved in your options?

Why is it that she is not a horse that you can ride?


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## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Thanks, Greentree! Nothing is 'wrong' with her, she just isn't the right horse for me. When I ride, I don't feel the joy I feel when I ride Midnight or my neighbors horse or other horses I connect with. It's not like I haven't given it time, there was period of time when I rode her every day. I just don't feel the same. She is definitely my go to for a horse fix, though! She is awesome, just not the right horse for me, my sister and her are amazing together. Thank you though, she is very pretty.



Even if she's not the horse for you,its a horse to ride while you figure out what's wrong with midnight. I'v ridden plenty of horses i din't connect with,you just got to make it work,if there's a will there's a way.:wink:


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I do ride her occasionally, just isn't as fun. Can't really explain it, just so different from horses that I like to ride. More short and stocky, slow and lazy. Horses I typically ride are thin and more run run run.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I think we're going to get a mustang to take the work load off Midnight!! 13 1/2hh super broke, good to be barefoot all the time, and sounds amazing!


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

ever owned a mustang? think of an arabian but with better knowledge on HOW to defend itself from scary things. My fiance has one. and i have seen this horse BUST metal pipes. ANY stall he is in MUST be reinforced. If you slack in his training ONCE, you have to start over. He is a big 15hh powerful horse who makes my arab look like a qh in behavior at times. He is a good horse but he is NOT for the faint of heart. When spooked he WILL bust his way OUT of a stall.


Mustangs are good horses BUT they are not for just anyone.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

She's already trained and good enough that kids could ride her.


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## liltuktuk (Dec 16, 2011)

Why something so small? Not sure how tall you are now, but I'm on the high size of average for a girl at 5'7" and wouldn't dream of climbing on something that small. While it might be a fit now, what happens when you grow?

If she's well trained, I'm sure she could make a great horse. But I think all you're going to end up with is another mouth to feed that ends up being too small for you to ride.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I won't get much taller than 5'3.


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Why bother? She always has some kind of rebuttal because 3 year experience means she Knows. It. All.


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## DeliciousD (Feb 25, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Wisper has problems, ...I know how to train a foal, if I need help, I will get it.


Why are you breeding a mare with these troubles? When the mare has a greater influence over the foal do you think it's right to create another life?

Do you know how expensive it truely is? Wow you've owned horses for three years. That's nothin. I assume you're young as you seem rather immature. How about do what's right by the horses you already own before breeding more.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Wow, 26 minutes to find, see, ride, PPE & decide on another horse. It took me 5 years to find the last horse I bought.

I'd be happy for you if it weren't for, well a lot of reasons, but mainly the lack of prioritizing & planning your family is so fond of. But I could overlook all that if the Mustang would change your mind about breeding.


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## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I won't get much taller than 5'3.


Obviously your school age,why are you on the internet? you should be in school. Not sure how old you are but you need to do some growing up. 

My daughter is 17 she's been around horses since she was old enough to walk. She took over training the horse she currently rides. Mind you i did the starting of said horse so he was little more then green broke. She trained him with my help even now,she runs into trouble with her horse and needs my help.:wink:

Think you wont get taller then 5.3 think again, my daughter didn't think she would get taller the that too,she's now 5.8.:wink:


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm happy for you ebony, I hope it works out in your favor. Just remember what I said: been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Besides I was 5'5, thought I wouldn't get any bigger and then *bam* I'm almost 6' and clock in at around 220 when I'm built up. 

Please do get a PPE on this horse, and reconsider breeding your pony. Three years is NOTHING compared to the decades many more have on you (and I).


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

I am 5'3" and i feel too tall for my mare. my mare is 14.1hh. you will outgrow that pony. What if you dont click with this one?


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Hey now, some of us short teenagers stayed short into adulthood  I too am 5'3", my mare is ~14.2 on a good day, and while I like a petite horse, I can't imagine riding something with her build but even shorter (I have ridden shorter, stockier Halflingers and such and not felt weird about it). 









So I think a 13 hand pony is not something that would make a lot of sense for an older teen who intends to stick with this mount into early adulthood.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Okay, here is my reply. 

Ebony, just a few months ago, I was in your shoes. I thought I knew all. I was soooo ready to adopt a mustang, I knew I would be able to train it - the videos of someone that trains mustangs looked so easy and fun, I wanted to do it too! I soon found out I was soooooooo wrong. It's not easy. It's not easy training a horse from the ground up, wild or not. It isn't for everyone. I wouldn't consider ANYONE ready to train a mustang, yearling, or even a FOAL unless they have 5+ years of riding experience and also have helped train a few horses. And not just fixing problems like not excepting the bit, picking up hooves, blah blah. I mean REAL training. You do not sound like you have that experience. And neither do I.

All of us here or not trying to be mean, bullies, or rude. We don't want to come across as unsupportive. We are looking out for you and your horses, from a reality point of view and not in dream land - where nothing bad every happens. We support you continuing to learn, become educated, and become more *mature. *You need to sit back and take a long, hard look at yourself and your horses. 

You cannot do "anything you set your mind to if you don't give up." I will bet $100 you WILL give up, you WILL need help. No one with three years of experience can train a horse from the ground up without spending all those three years working alongside professional trainers and dozens of horses. 

I am sorry if our advice is not what you expected. We are mature enough to see the reality behind all this, and not think that everything will be magically OK and everyone will live happily ever after. 

You have three ponies now, correct? Belle, Midnight, Whisper? 

*Midnight**:*Get her the help she needs. She is your #1 priority right now. Forget about this silly breeding plan with Whisper. Midnight is your top concern right now. If you have to spend all the breeding money savings on making Midnight happy, DO IT! Getting Midnight looked at by a professional VET should be your action of plan. In fact, get opinions from TWO vets. If they recommend she needs chiropractic work, get it done! Forget about breeding, help Midnight.

*Belle**: *Yeah, yeah, I know you don't "click", but if you are dying to ride, get on anyways if she's the right size. Work with her. She'll teach you a lot, you'll have to get along. 

*Whisper**: *You're already having to train her. Having an untrained mother is like a ten car crash. Work with her. Forget about her having a foal. It's highly unrealistic. You have your hands full with Midnight, Belle, and Whisper. Spending money for vet bills on Midnight, training Whisper, riding lessons, camps, school, etc. I wonder how much free time you have. :?

If you are dying to ride and refuse to ride Belle for whatever reason, sell Whisper & Midnight. Get that money to buy a 15hh, well broke horse. Relax a little. 

I think breeding is a VERY bad idea. Not long after, you'll realize we ARE right. We are thinking logically, in reality. We are considering everything. YOU AREN'T! 

This mustang, can you give more info on her? How old is she? How trained? What does she know? Is she a BLM mustang? If so, how many years is she out of the wild? 

Thirteen hands is really small, you are 5'3". I'm 5'5" and do well on a 15-16hh horse. I think you should consider a taller horse. You sound young, what 13 years old? You more than likely will grow. You'll be too big for your ponies, soon your sister will be too big for Belle. You'll outgrow the tiny 13hh mustang. 

What I suggest you do, wait. Put off the breeding, put off the mustang. You have more than enough horses and more than even problems and more than enough activities. Focus on getting Midnight better, focus on training Whisper. *Forget about the stupid breeding.

*Find a stable and take some lessons. You'll be able to ride there! And lots of different horses too. You'll become better in your riding skills. Ask if you can help out around the barn. You'll increase your handling skills. 

See if there is a breeding farm near you. Ask to help. Maybe you'll see training foals 101 with your own eyes and really see what it's like. You'll probably see the complications of birthing, pregnancy, etc. It's not easy, and sometimes it's not fun. 

I bet you'll learn a lot starting lessons and working at a stable/breeding farm. You'll increase your knowledge. 

Sit back and look at yourself. I believe you are smart, but you need to think smartly. I wasn't thinking smart about mustangs, I am now. Roman has enough problems, it's going to be a challenge getting over those! Much less having to deal with those same problems with a wild, untrained mustang! I actually cried a bit thinking about that a while ago. I was stupid to think I was ready for a mustang. Everyone else was right: I wasn't. 

It'll be a learning experience for me working with Roman. It'll be a learning experience for YOU, training the three ponies you have now, taking riding lessons, working at the stable or breeding farm. 

Honestly honey, we want to see you succeed. Breeding your mare is not the way to go. Sit back, take a look at yourself. Think in reality. Listen to what others that have WAY more experience than you have to say. Learn from them. Trust me, you will thank yourself.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

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## cblair8927 (Mar 18, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> My mare with the back problems might be permanently unusable. She is good for little rides, but whenever I get on her, I just feel guilty. I could probably ride her and everything, but just knowing that it hurts makes me never want to ride again.
> 
> So, really, I don't know what to do. I have to ride. I am training my pony, but I only ride her for short periods of time because she is too small for me. My options: try to save up and get a horse this winter when the cost of horses goes down (everyone doesn't want to buy hay) but...I am going to be breeding Wisper (please don't post about that) so won't have a whole ton of money to save up for a while, plus, I would totally miss the entire warm season of riding and not be able to ride for like 6 months.
> 
> Or, I can just not ride.  Or, I can sell Midnight. :shock::-( Or, I can sell Wisper:shock::-( and use the money to buy a horse I can ride. Obviously, don't want to do either of those three options. My parents would probably be fine with another horse as long as I bought it or it was free. But....they are picky. Can't be sorrel(don't ask me why) or too old, or too young, or have arthritis, no matter how minor, or have a weird scar on their face, or be missing an eye, or buck occasionally, etc. etc. etc. More into the cosmetic part of horses than the actual horse, haha. Opinions? Support? Anything? I haven't rode for like a month and I am DYING!


Hope you get to ride again soon


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Mustang is 14. loads, leads, saddles, rides, trails, neck reins, direct reins, etc. Basically just a pleasure mount except she is trained to jump. I AM going to breed Wisper. I AM going to get help. I AM going to have a different vet look at Midnight. I AM going to try to get this mare if I can because she sounds perfect for us. (Someone is looking at her tonight, if they don't take her we will go ride her) I HAVE BEEN riding Belle occasionally. I'm not 5'3 yet. I am about 5'1. My mom is 5'3 and my dad is 6 ft. All the girls have leaned towards my mom's height.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I am on the far side of 60 years old and 5'3", I like short horses. Always have.

Elwood was 14.1 and just right for me.

Either Belle or the 13.2 mustang would readily sell, or be leased out as part of a lesson program. IF they are well trained, well ridden, and beginner friendly.

They could be a valuable part of a future lesson program, if done right.

Ebony, it seems you are flitting your goals about. 

A proper foundation would be to make a business plan now while you are young. Say a 5-year plan, and a long-term plan.

Long-Term: Have this property and what is to be a profitable youth and lesson horse business. Prospering and passing it on to future generations.

5 years - have horses and earn money to help your parents afford the horse property they are paying for. At a minimum pay for all horses expenses yourself.

Picture a straight line to your goal.

At every action, or decision point, consider whether this move will be straight on course with your goal, if it will stray away from the purpose, or if will simply not make progress toward your goal. If it is not a good move towards achieving your goals, don't invest in it (ie don't do it). 

There are plenty of things you can do to keep you busy without getting sidetracked.

While my thinking that Belle, a healthy Midnight, and the mini mare would be a working in progressing towards these goals.

Forget breeding the mini, it would be side tracking, and moving away from the goal. One mini might be nice for teaching the very young, most clients would likely be of 4-H'r age, and a greater weight than mini's would handle.

A 13.2 lesson horse could eventually pay it's way or contribute toward the goal.

Get the vet for Midnight. Now.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I've had a vet out twice for Midnight and I am going to get one out again.


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## liltuktuk (Dec 16, 2011)

More than height, you have to consider how much the horse can physically carry. The 20% rule.

Say this mustang is 800 lbs max (and at 13.2h I would guess she's probably less than that), 20% of her weight is 160 lbs. So you (or whoever is riding her) plus the saddle and pad has to be under 160 lbs. Assume a western saddle is 20 lbs (and that's on the light side) and you're looking at 140 lb rider max.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

My saddle weighs less than 20 lbs. I weight 107, so at least now we should be good.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

There are a million red flags in this thread, but I don't think having a 13-14hh horse is one of them. I'm 5'3", 110 lbs, and I can comfortably ride ponies under 13hh. I have a friend who used to ride (and jump) her 13.2hh pony at 5'10". She looked rather funny on her, but she was very light and got along extremely well with that pony. She ultimately upgraded to a 17hh horse for her own riding goals, but that pony is being leased out to a lesson barn nearby and is still rocking it with kids in the show ring. That doesn't make riding/breeding the mini a good idea in the slightest, or make any of the other red flags any better. 

If the post was about a tall man or a heavier (within reason) adult we'd be having people posting saying "what about all the tall cowboys who ride small horses" or "the 20% rule isn't hard and fast", etc. There's a lot going wrong with the overall situation, but I don't think a 13 year old at 5'1" getting/riding a horse in the 13-14hh range is the biggest thing to worry about. You do need to plan for what to do in the event you outgrow the pony. You'll need to be honest with yourself about it when/if it happens (at your age it very well may, as unlikely as it seems) and be able to provide a home for life (seems to be an uncertain factor in your case, sorry) or be willing to sell him to the right home. 

Sell any marketable horses that you aren't using to the right homes (IMO that would be Belle because you don't like her and Whisper because she's too small and is untrained). Get a different vet out for Midnight, and plan on keeping her because of her injury. If you sell the horses you aren't riding or enjoying then you can pay for a new vet for Midnight's evaluation and a suitable riding horse for yourself. That would be my "what now" scenario- if you can only have a limited number of horses keep the ones you need so you can properly provide for them and find the right homes for the ones who aren't working out. You'll be happy to have someone to ride, you won't be bringing more horses into an overpopulated world, and the others can go to a home where they'll be used.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Mustang was bought by the people that were going to look at her.  She sounded perfect for us.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Ebony, I know your relationship with Belle is not what you started the thread about but if you don't mind I'd like to give you some thoughts on that.

I've had a lot of horses over the years and some I've liked better than others. The ones on my all time favorite list though are the ones that I didn't click with right away. I think because the horse and I had to work harder together in the beginning it made us forge a better working relationship thus we both come to have more respect for each other. In case your not clear on what I'm saying I'll compare it to two people who were friends for years before they fell in love. Love relationships between people that started out as friends tend to be really strong and lasting. There is no reason Belle can't be more forward and faster in her movements if you work on her training. 

About the ones I "clicked" with right away? Well, I had a tendency to spoil them a little more and while I never accept bad manners from any horse, I'll be the first to admit that they didn't have the work ethic the others did/do.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks, JCnGrace. I'm either going to have to ride her a ton, or my sister is going to need to start going out there more often. She is scared to ride without me and Belle is degrading instead of upgrading. For example, my brother rode her yesterday, took her into the corner of the pasture (1.5 acres) and she was sooo "far" away from the other horses that she bucked him off and galloped back. He was okay, but I had to get on her just to prove that doesn't work. Somehow, the bridle came off. :shock: When he flipped off her he had the reins in his hand so I am thinking he pulled it at just the right angle for it slide off. Never happened before. :/


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

This just a disaster waiting to happen.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

SueNH said:


> This just a disaster waiting to happen.


What is, SueNH? Me riding MY horse?


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Seems to me like now is the time for you to learn what horse ownership and taking responsibility is really about. Responsibility and "loving horses" is not about goofing around with the ponies in the pasture or breeding your pony or buying uet another one.

"Loving horses" and responsibility is just as much about knowing where your limits are and sticking it out when things turn not so well.

I don't know you or your parents, but I have a feeling that you are neither ready for a pregnancy and foal, nor for yet another horse. Being financially and mentally responsible for the two you have is probably plenty for you, if you do it right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Regula said:


> Seems to me like now is the time for you to learn what horse ownership and taking responsibility is really about. Responsibility and "loving horses" is not about goofing around with the ponies in the pasture or breeding your pony or buying uet another one.
> 
> "Loving horses" and responsibility is just as much about knowing where your limits are and sticking it out when things turn not so well.
> 
> ...


:clap: :thumbsup:


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

Red Gate Farm said:


> Ride Belle if you really, really need to ride. Doesn't matter if you "click" with her or not, she's there and ridable.
> 
> This gives the other one a chance to heal.


 Please don't feel defensive because people are mentioning your lack of experience. NONE of us were born with it. It comes with time. Not riding Belle just because you don't "click" with her is one example of being an inexperienced rider
I would exhaust all possibilities on getting your horse sound. Since your vet doesn't seem to know what the problem is, get another vet to look at her
If you definitely want to keep the pony, I would not even think of breeding her until she is completely trained
I suggest working with what you have right now and, as someone else posted, take some lessons and try to find a situation where you can be working with lots of horses and getting more experience


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Regula said:


> Responsibility and "loving horses" is not about goofing around with the ponies in the pasture or breeding your pony or buying uet another one.
> 
> "Loving horses" and responsibility is just as much about knowing where your limits are and sticking it out when things turn not so well._Posted via Mobile Device_


Regula I just wanted to say that this is officially on one of my "top ten best things ever said on this forum or that I've ever heard from a horse person". Seriously can't say how much I agree/love this enough!


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

OP, I'm not trying to criticize you or be mean here, but I have noticed on every single thread you make, you never take the advice that is offered up. There is always some reason why it won't work, some excuse, and what I consider some "tough love criticism" you take as bullying. I won't stand for bullies, I will defend people, but there were only a couple of posts that were over the top. The vast majority of people on this thread are earnestly trying to help you.

The one thing that can and will get you hurt FAST with horses is pride. The "I know what I'm doing" attitude and refusal to see otherwise is very dangerous. I have read stories and articles by top trainers about horses who proved them otherwise when they became too prideful. 

So anyway, my point was, if you are not taking the advice of others, why are you here? Do you want advice... or attention?


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

honestly I think it's attention.. most of the topics started by OP are ones that can get heated, I haven't said much because I was taught if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I haven't taken some of the advice on here because people seem to think that just because I am a minor I don' know anything and can't do anything. For example, people told me I couldn't train Wisper. Going on 4th ride with no buck, bolt, rear, kick, bite, or anything bad. Not saying I am experienced, or know everything because I'm not, and I don't. Not saying you don't know more than me, because you do...in some aspects. You, however, don't know me, my determination, exactly where I am with horses, how much time I have to do things, or anything like that. I am NOT on here for attention, I get on here hoping that one of these times people will just accept me for who I am and try to help me and my horses get better instead of trying to shut down anything and everything I am doing in my life.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> *I haven't taken some of the advice on here because people seem to think that just because I am a minor I don' know anything and can't do anything.* For example, people told me I couldn't train Wisper. Going on 4th ride with no buck, bolt, rear, kick, bite, or anything bad. Not saying I am experienced, or know everything because I'm not, and I don't. Not saying you don't know more than me, because you do...in some aspects. You, however, don't know me, my determination, exactly where I am with horses, how much time I have to do things, or anything like that. *I am NOT on here for attention, I get on here hoping that one of these times people will just accept me for who I am and try to help me and my horses get better instead of trying to shut down anything and everything I am doing in my life.*


So whether the advice is actually good advice or not, you won't take it because of the person's attitude? That doesn't make much sense. If it were me, though I might be annoyed or PO at the person, I would think through their advice and see if it made logical sense to me. Its kind of like saying you won't buy the candy bar because you didn't like the store clerk's attitude. I'm 18, but people rarely ever talk down to me (and I mean in real life, people who know my actual age). I will let you work out why that is.

Nobody is trying to shut down your whole life. So let me ask you, what are you looking for? How can we help you? You said horse may be "unrideable, what now?". It was rather vague, and a vague question makes people start voicing their opinions on what they think you should do, which is basically what you asked for because you were not specific enough. So what exactly do you want our advice on? People suggested you call a vet, OK, you've done that and will do so again. So what exactly do you want help/advice with? *How can we help you?*


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Ok just have to put my .02 cents in. I also have gathered that you are young Ebony (not bad at all just stating). I am currently 21 and while I have 7+ years of horse experience I still say I am very much a beginner in the horse world compared to the people who have been doing this for 20, 30, 40, 50+ years. When I first started out I took lessons and worked them off. My mentor/4H leader, while I disagree with a lot she did, made me a better and more experienced horse person than I could have done on my own. 

From day one she made me take care of every aspect of caring for my 4H horse...including training him under her watchful eye and direction. The only thing I did not do with him was have him at my own place and pay for his hay and grain. But my mentor let me know just how much that cost as well so my eyes were wide open. I rode, showed, and trained with this mentor for 4 1/2 years. She owned 20+ horses and I rode almost every one of them and have been dragged kicked bucked off and almost every other thing countless times. My parents had still refused to buy me my own horse(they thought me irresponsible) and I was going to college so I didnt argue. 

When I went to college I majored in Equestrian Studies and did work study up at the barns while I also took two lesson a week. By the end of my first semester I finally thought I was prepared enough to buy a horse of my own. I didn't tell my parents and I had been looking for months for a horse that seemed right to me. Factor in Colly, a mustang mare who was supposedly between 10-12 years old and had sat in a pasture for 6 years. I paid $700 for her but by the time my parents found out I had already found a temporary place to board her, had her vet checked, had talked to a vet in our area (I already had a relationship with a farrier), and knew where to buy hay, grain and anything else she needed. By the end of that year I had three horses under my care (one owned by my sister) and was working full and part time jobs to care for them not including the other horses people wanted me to train.

That was two years ago and while I wouldn't trade my choices for anything I know enough to take advice from other people who are more experienced than me. I bred my mare against the advice of the people here BUT I have a ton of people who are extremely experienced with foals that have been mentoring me and have agreed to help train should I need it. My vet and Farrier both have offered to help with any problems that should arise and have informed me of the costs and what I should be looking out for in the future care wise for Colly and the foal.

Regarding your mare Midnight from what it sounds like you and your vet are just treating the symptoms(pain, discomfort) rather than exhausting your efforts in finding the cause of everything. I'm not trying to bash you it is just what I have gathered from your posts. I have a friend who's older horse has back problems due to his long back and they have done chiro, massage therapy, and a littany of pain meds but it has come to the point where he is just not happy anymore and they are going to put him down before the year is out. I agree this would be Midnight's best option before she is in so much pain she can barely walk or is completely unusable.

I agree with the others here that if you do not want to sell your horses don't breed Whisper and use the money to buy a good nice sound broke horse. The ones at Cranbury are mostly under $500 and they even post videos of them riding but you want to see something sad is the fact that last week they had 72? horses and more than half were minis and about half of them were pregnant mares. If you are dead set on getting a foal why not take a look at Last Chance Corral? 

Wow sorry for such the long post but anyway take what you want and we can't force you to make a decision just inform you an advise you and what would be in yours and your horses best interests.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Would definitely do that if it weren't 26 hours away, Danicelia. I have stated multiple times that I have several people that are going to help me with my foal.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Having a chiropractor/vet out today (he is both) for Midnight. She acts fine in the pasture, galloping, bucking, etc. just when you saddle or get on her she is in pain.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Having a chiropractor/vet out today (he is both) for Midnight. She acts fine in the pasture, galloping, bucking, etc. just when you saddle or get on her she is in pain.


So does my friends horse but they know his quality of life is only going to get worse and want to make sure he doesn't get to that point.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Incitatus32 said:


> Regula I just wanted to say that this is officially on one of my "top ten best things ever said on this forum or that I've ever heard from a horse person". Seriously can't say how much I agree/love this enough!


Geee, thanks!  (*blush*)

As for the initial question - it always puzzles me how this is such a problem for people (and Ebonyisforme is by far not the only one, there have been a number of these threads on this forum in the last few months).
Truth is, every horse you ever own will reach a point where it needs to permanently retire. Sometimes sooner, sometimes later, sometimes well after you sold it. But it will inevitably happen. So that is something to consider BEFORE aquiring a horse.

Midnight it at that point now, but Whisper, Belle, the foal, whatever horse you ever buy will get there someday.

Some people (including me) believe in keeping a horse for life. That is the reason why I have only one. One is all I can honestly say that I'll be able to commit to boarding, feeding, having his special needs taken care of etc for the next 15-20 years. Yes, it does mean that there were and will be times when I pay and don't ride (or ride school horses). It's the choice I make.
Some people prefer to buy projects and sell them on well before the time of retirement ever comes.
Some people can't or won't keep a horse that doesn't work to pay its bills and put it down.

All these are viable options, but I will never understand why people say "I will keep the horse for life" and then come on here asking "omg, my horse is permanently lame, what do I do?"
So, regardless if you breed or buy another horse or whatever you do, it is time NOW to think about what you are going to do when any of the horses you have or take on are in the place that Midnight is right now.
It would probably also be a good time NOW to think about how many are enough, and how many are too much, and what you will do when that limit is reached.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Ebonyisforme- I think there are a few issues here people are seeing. Not all these issues are your fault but this is probably what bothers people on this forum

#1) Your parents are irresponsible buyers... They buy "free or cheap" horses regardless of whether those horses are safe for you or your sister to ride

#2) Your parents do not want to spend extra money to get a proper diagnosis on your horse with health issues

#3) your parents probably do not want to pay for your unrideable horses retirement and/or they do not want to buy you another horse.

The cost to breed your pony, could easily pay for you a nice expensive well trained and rideable horse. Your parents would have to pay a stud fee, the costs to monitor the pregnancy (ultrasounds), the cost to have the vet out after the foal is born... etc.

If you find a cheap stud for your pony, I would guess that would be around $250 to $500 for breeding, Ultrasound to check she is in foal, at least another $100 (my vet recommends 4 ultrasounds so that is $400), plus pregnant mare vaccines at $35 each (should be given at 5,7, and 9 months of pregnancy), $145 for a newborn foal exam, additional booster shots for that foal....

Your totals are $250-500 stud fee (assuming pasture bred)
$100 per ultrasound (plus $50 trip fee) x 4
$105 for the mares 3 vaccines
$145 for the newborn foal exam
+ foals booster shots
+ feeding the mare extra while she is nursing
+ feeding the foal for the next 3 years while it grows 

I would ask your parents some hard questions about what their intentions are in breeding that pony. Are they going to sell the foal once it is weaned? 

If you really have your heart set on a riding horse of your own, I would very carefully point out the costs of breeding that mare compared to the very nice horse riding horse you could go buy. 

I had only 1 horse growing up. That was all we could afford. When she was lame, I either did not ride or I went and worked for lessons at a stable. Or I found a horse to free lease in exchange for mucking 6+ stalls. 

You are incredibly lucky to have horses at all, even if you have to share a horse with your sister. 

My first horse is enjoying her retirement at age 26 yrs old. We committed to feed and care for that horse for the rest of her life. I can't ride her as she is crippled with arthritis. I have to soak feed for her every day as she has lost most of her teeth. But I do it because I love her, and she is my responsibility.

Horses are not cars that your replace with a shiny new one when they get old. 

You need to discuss a horse retirement plan with your parents, or plan on selling them all before they reach the age of 15. Which ultimately means you will fall in love and get your heart broken when they sell.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

May I just point out, you're thirteen right? Thereabouts. By the time the foal - if you do breed for one :/ - is ready to be ridden, you'll be thinking about college and be off to college too.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

KigerQueen said:


> ever owned a mustang? think of an arabian but with better knowledge on HOW to defend itself from scary things. My fiance has one. and i have seen this horse BUST metal pipes. ANY stall he is in MUST be reinforced. If you slack in his training ONCE, you have to start over.


Kiger, a mustang is a horse. Period. Sounds like yours is a reactive one who has had some terrible experiences & not been gotten over his 'hangups'. Keeping them in isolation & restricted in pens will not be helping his issues, as he is living in chronic stress. Horses that are kept in this sort of environment are generally more reactive.... if they're not 'shut down', depressed.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Regula said:


> Geee, thanks!  (*blush*)
> 
> As for the initial question - it always puzzles me how this is such a problem for people (and Ebonyisforme is by far not the only one,


Ditto. In this case, IMO, it is because OP is a young teen(remember what that was like??:lol who hasn't been taught responsibility towards animals, and who having(by the sound of it) been given horses willy nilly with little care, with little experience, doesn't see a problem with just getting another one, just breeding them, because... well, she has an animal with a uterus & foals are cute... I can well understand how she has developed this attitude, but it's her parents I have issue with, in allowing/encouraging this.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

loosie said:


> Kiger, a mustang is a horse. Period. Sounds like yours is a reactive one who has had some terrible experiences & not been gotten over his 'hangups'. Keeping them in isolation & restricted in pens will not be helping his issues, as he is living in chronic stress. Horses that are kept in this sort of environment are generally more reactive.... if they're not 'shut down', depressed.


Disagree. Every horse is different. Others are more reactive. Him being a mustang, he has that flight sense inside it. His is probably larger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I have responsibility. I spend every penny on my pets. I spend every free moment on my pets. I feed, walk, exercise, groom, play with, medicate, schedule farrier and vet visits, etc. I do it.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, I am sooo lucky that I have horses. I waited 10 years wishing for them and now I have them. I am lucky. But, I am not spoiled. I have given up so many things for them.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Ebony, are your parents going to pay for your university education? Do you plan on going to university? Do you have enough of a savings to keep an emergency fund in tact, plus pay for vet care, plus pay for feed / farrier / chiropractor for the _long term_. Is your source of income steady and consistent?

You've been given a lot of GOOD advice, and here's mine: sit down with a financial advisor or a counsellor of some sort... even an accountant or someone who is familiar with the costs of horses. Your expenses could easily grow to be bigger than $250 per month. What then? Your parents don't sound like they're in the best space financially, and if I were you I would feel terrible should something happen and they were to become burdened with my mess of animals.

And what's your plan if you and your baby don't 'click'? Will you breed again, buy another horse? If you have so much difficulty working with a good sound horse because you don't like the way she rides... well, what happens if you don't like the way your precious new baby rides? If your personalities don't mesh?


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

There is a difference between a 8 year old mare coming to me and me raising a foal from birth. I love Belle, just don't really enjoy riding her. Still do groundwork and stuff.. My income is pretty reliable. I am totally filling up with lessons, have one almost every day of the week now, I am doing 2 hour "day camps" with my mom and get $30 from (bear with me) the rest of the $400 or so we make a week goes into a horse bank account. So...that is about $1600 per month, plus the money I make from riding lessons.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't want to go to university. I am going to work at a ranch for a couple months helping them start their colts when I graduate. I am going to be paying my sister to take care of my pets.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

The mustang is kept next to other horses. Again, az boarding no pasture board. He wasn't always like this bit FIL has taken over his ownership and lets him get away with things he should not.

And yes they are horses but they come from generations of horses who survived in the wild, as in not half dead plot around ponies, they are the first to get eaten by mountain lions.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I don't want to go to university. I am going to work at a ranch for a couple months helping them start their colts when I graduate. I am going to be paying my sister to take care of my pets.


If you want to become a trainer and get a job training horses, you're going to have to do more than just training one pony. You should be working alongside a professional trainer right NOW. Dropping the breeding and focusing on your future and what you want to do as an adult. I doubt people will hire you to train their horses without knowing you've train a hundred horses - one pony won't get you a job working at a big ranch starting foals.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

It is a volunteer position that I will do just to get experience. When I get a bit more experienced, I am going to be buying projects from auctions, slaughter trucks, whatever and training them to resell (can't keep that many horses but if I train them to where someone will want them...) I'm not just going, "Ooh! I trained a pony, pick me, pick me!" They are asking for volunteers to help out.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> It is a volunteer position that I will do just to get experience. When I get a bit more experienced, I am going to be buying projects from auctions, slaughter trucks, whatever and training them to resell (can't keep that many horses but if I train them to where someone will want them...) I'm not just going, "Ooh! I trained a pony, pick me, pick me!" They are asking for volunteers to help out.


Asking for volunteers now? What about in 5 years? >.>


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

If you can now, begin working with a trainer. Go for that! Get more knowledge safely instead of jumping into something you have no knowledge about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> It is a volunteer position that I will do just to get experience. When I get a bit more experienced, I am going to be buying projects from auctions, slaughter trucks, whatever and training them to resell (can't keep that many horses but if I train them to where someone will want them...) I'm not just going, "Ooh! I trained a pony, pick me, pick me!" They are asking for volunteers to help out.


That kind of business model is where a degree in Business Administration can really help. Besides which, the fact that training to resell is not exactly a lucrative career (besides the fact that many horses from auctions and slaughter trucks require considerable rehab that eat into one's profit margins) so having an education is pretty important because if gives you a secondary source of income if you need it.

For what it is worth, I do know of someone who does pick up horses from auctions of the lowest caliber, as well as networking with Thoroughbred trainers and owners to find new homes for horses coming off the track. Some of the horses she picks up are retired at her place, others have to be euthanized, but have a safe place instead of ending their days badly, and she usually can place other horses out in an adoption sort of setting. 

However, that wouldn't have been possible without her having gone to college, gotten a degree related to horses as well as business communication training.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I am going to be a stay at home mom with little things that I do. For example: I want to learn how to do equine massages, trim hooves, and the training thing. I am not going to be working.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I am going to be a stay at home mom with little things that I do. For example: I want to learn how to do equine massages, trim hooves, and the training thing. I am not going to be working.


I know a few people who would hire a backyard farrier (but not many) and I don't know anyone who would hire someone who hadn't been trained to give equine massages. Both of those things require an education.

You really shouldn't put all of your faith in becoming a stay at home mom, supporting yourself with your odd jobs and side hobbies, especially when your side hobbies are VERY expensive.


How are you going to support your horses when day camps end?


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I met a guy a few years ago who gives anyone thinking about a career in horses something to think about. He ended up in a bit of an accident, no fault of the horses or his. The horses head made contact with his face. He had his front teeth knocked out. We were working seasonal ranch work. So, he had no insurance only workman's compensation. So, he lost most of his summer wages paying for the dental bills. The bridge that he had to get so he could eat took a few weeks to be created. So, he lost out on going to the next season and moving down to Arizona. He could not move because he needed to be around for the dental work fitting. He ended up missing out on a about a six months worth of work, and he ended up loosing most of his money. He spent the winter, unhappily with a woman he was dating. He had to stay because he could not afford to leave. The next season someone else I worked with shattered her elbow, major surgery. Workman's compensation exists; however, its slow and headache to file. 

Horses don't pay well, the jobs that offer health care or dental are rare and forget retirement. You need to be lucky and talented to make a living at horses. College is a good idea. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make a living at horses its just that you should take some business courses because its hard to make it work. Equine massage does not pay well, farrier work will destroy your back eventually. I don't think I can convince you of anything, you have to learn for yourself but thats a slow hard process.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I am going to be a stay at home mom with little things that I do. For example: I want to learn how to do equine massages, trim hooves, and the training thing. I am not going to be working.


Ohh lord, that's probably the most naive thing I've seen from this yet. Kids cost money. Lots of money. Where's the guarantee that you'll find a suitor capable of supporting you, kids, and horses when you're an adult? You need to make plans to support yourself if necessary, not expecting someone else to do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I am going to be a stay at home mom with little things that I do. For example: I want to learn how to do equine massages, trim hooves, and the training thing. I am not going to be working.


Playing devil's advocate, here, but what happens if you CAN'T be a SAHM? What happens if your husband doesn't make enough to support your family and you have to work? What happens if he gets injured or something happens to him and it falls to you to support your family? I can't tell you how many girls I knew growing up who swore they were just going to be SAHMs. Guess how many of them are now either having to work to help support their family because their husbands don't make enough, they are single mothers supporting their kids because they are divorced, or they are having to provide the sole means of income for their family because their husband is unable to work? I can tell you right now that it's better than half of them.

Do yourself and your future family a favor: seriously reconsider not getting a college education. Even an associate's degree makes you more marketable to a company than someone without. Should the need ever arise, you would be able to more easily find a decent job and not be stuck flipping burgers.

And don't say "That'll never happen to me." I can tell you right now that I NEVER in a million years would have even thought for a second that I would be a 32yo divorcee paying child support and, until I was thrown into the assistant manager position at the hotel I work at, struggling to make ends meet working jobs that paid barely above minimum wage. I am considering going back to school to get my degree in Hospitality Management now that I have found a good, local degree program, because it will not only help me do my job, but it will increase my marketability should I ever find myself needing to leave the hotel I currently manage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I've grown up my entire life in a religion that supports staying at home moms. I believe, as does my family (probably going to get even more hate for this but whatever.) that men should be responsible to provide for the family. My husband will be of my religion or else I don't want to marry him, because I am going to get married in the temple no matter what.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

Face it.. trying to tell the OP what to do is like talking to a brick wall.. they have been riding for a couple of years, so they are trainer of the year, they sell off their horses when they need care, because they can get another "free" project some other time, they do NOT want to go to a trainer.. because a couple years of riding, who's going to teach them anything anyways, and they want to breed just to breed.. never mind there are 100's of horses no one wants, lets just make one more, you are a young teen, and are having a young teen attitude, and the I know more than you attitude, that is plaguing teens today.. the stay at home mom who will have kids and support myself by odd jobs sealed it.. good luck having welfare pay for your horses, I hate to be blunt.. but wake up, you are nowhere experienced enough to be a "trainer" after a couple years of riding, we all have dreams, just sometimes you HAVE to be realistic about them, horses cost a lot of money, and so do kids.... *backs away*


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Want to give God a good laugh? Make plans. 'Nuff said.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I've grown up my entire life in a religion that supports staying at home moms. I believe, as does my family (probably going to get even more hate for this but whatever.) that men should be responsible to provide for the family. My husband will be of my religion or else I don't want to marry him, because I am going to get married in the temple no matter what.


Ebony, I am pretty sure I am of the same religion as you. I was raised with a dad who worked hard to support us and a mom who decided to go back to college when I was in second grade to get her teaching degree. She student-taught my fourth grade class. She worked all the way until I was a senior in high school, then retired. She and my dad served a mission in Rostov, Russia, when I was a freshman in college. My dad was a contractor for 25 years and a real estate broker for 20 years after that before he finally retired when I was a freshman in high school. My mom worked because she wanted to, not because she had to. 

I think it's unfair to your future spouse to expect him to fully support your family AND your hobbies. Yes, I was raised with "the man supports the family" drilled into my head, but it was tempered with "but the woman needs to help if the need arises."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

sarahfromsc said:


> Want to give God a good laugh? Make plans. 'Nuff said.


:clap:

The religion thing makes me think women aren't good for anything except making babies and doing house chores. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I haven't taken some of the advice on here because people seem to think that just because I am a minor I don' know anything and can't do anything. For example, people told me I couldn't train Wisper. Going on 4th ride with no buck, bolt, rear, kick, bite, or anything bad. Not saying I am experienced, or know everything because I'm not, and I don't. Not saying you don't know more than me, because you do...in some aspects. You, however, don't know me, my determination, exactly where I am with horses, how much time I have to do things, or anything like that. I am NOT on here for attention, I get on here hoping that one of these times people will just accept me for who I am and try to help me and my horses get better instead of trying to shut down anything and everything I am doing in my life.


 No one here is trying to shut down your interest in horses. Did you know as much about horses as you did say 3 years ago as you do now? I think NOT. Will you know more and be able to make better decisions in 5, 10, or 20 years from now ? I would hope the answer be YES. Some of us have been involved with horses much longer than you and have made plenty of mistakes. People are getting frustrated with you because you insist that you are on top of things but you have (1) an unsound horse that a determination will eventually need to be made on, (2) your sister's horse that you don't enjoy riding but you are not working enough on her or your sister, (3) a pony that you are training, and you are talking about a foal and a mustang. So far you have not done all you can with the three you have. Being a good and responsible horse person isn't always having fun and doing what you want. Respect has to be earned.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I'M NOT SELLING MIDNIGHT!! I scheduled a chiropractor to come out tomorrow but apparently because I'm not spending thousands and thousands I am still a bad owner? My horses get dewormed, vaccinated, trimmed, shoed if needed, vet visits, etc etc etc as often as they need. I am NOT a trainer right now, scratch that, I am. Everyone that rides a horse is, whether they do it professionally or not. I have taken some advice from here. I sold the horse everyone told me to sell because she was too much for me, I didn't do the free lease everyone was against, I had a vet out twice for Midnight, and a chiro tomorrow. I do listen, I just don't agree with everything you say, because you don't know my situation, nor do you know me. I am sooo tired of this. My life, my horses, my decisions. All I asked was that you give me advice on what to do with Midnight, whether or not to retire her, and I got people telling me to sell my horses, then getting mad about it, telling me to not breed my pony (where did that come from) how bad an owner I am because I didn't get 3 vets out in a week, nope, just two. I am such a bad person, definitely don't deserve to have horses or make my own decisions. Nope.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Mustang was sold to someone else. Belle is practically (not technically) my sister's pretty sure that because I don't train HER horse, that makes me a bad owner.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Ebony, nobody is calling you a bad owner. Perhaps unrealistic, but not bad. The fact of the matter is: you're still a child. You don't have a reliable income (day camps end, people cancel), you don't plan to go to university, you don't plan to work to support your hobby... and yet you're piling more and more expensive animals on top of your families (already large!) workload. You need to learn to think objectively, and from your denial on this forum and your "dreams" for the future it's clear that you're not there yet.

Believe it or not, almost every single person who has posted here has your best interests at heart and has given you good, solid advice to try and point you in a better direction. There have been incredible horse people post in this thread and others who have been in the industry PROFESSIONALLY for longer than you've been alive (for double the time that _I've _been alive). Obviously nobody here can make you change your mind but... given this thread and others, it already sounds like you've bitten off more than you can chew and we're worried.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

alexischristina said:


> Ebony, nobody is calling you a bad owner. Perhaps unrealistic, but not bad. The fact of the matter is: you're still a child. You don't have a reliable income (day camps end, people cancel), you don't plan to go to university, you don't plan to work to support your hobby... and yet you're piling more and more expensive animals on top of your families (already large!) workload. You need to learn to think objectively, and from your denial on this forum and your "dreams" for the future it's clear that you're not there yet.
> 
> Believe it or not, almost every single person who has posted here has your best interests at heart and has given you good, solid advice to try and point you in a better direction. There have been incredible horse people post in this thread and others who have been in the industry PROFESSIONALLY for longer than you've been alive (for double the time that _I've _been alive). Obviously nobody here can make you change your mind but... given this thread and others, it already sounds like you've bitten off more than you can chew and we're worried.


 Good post Alexischristina, but you know the old saying about leading horses to water. Sad, but some lessons are best learned the hard way


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> There is a difference between a 8 year old mare coming to me and me raising a foal from birth.
> 
> Please trust me when I say there isn't that big of a difference. I was on the fence for two years as to if I really wanted my colt and I have known him since his conception! Their personality changes just like children's do and the foal you love so much at one may be an entirely different animal come five or six (or the first time you go to work with him under saddle/driving).
> 
> ...





Ebonyisforme said:


> I don't want to go to university. I am going to work at a ranch for a couple months helping them start their colts when I graduate. I am going to be paying my sister to take care of my pets.


While I don't feel that I can contribute to the 'yes or no' college debate (as I myself am on the fence and tend to have a varying opinion); I can say that SOME college will only benefit. College will open doors to future clientele and offer you more skills to work with. For instance: I'm a college drop out (because of many things, but also to pursue my career in horse training full time), I've completed two years and in those two years have learned enough to open a side tutoring business, to make connections in part time jobs, and built up 'horse clientele' who hire me/give me apprenticeships. My best advice is to plan for college and do horse training internships in the summer/on breaks in between the years. 



Ebonyisforme said:


> It is a volunteer position that I will do just to get experience. When I get a bit more experienced, I am going to be buying projects from auctions, slaughter trucks, whatever and training them to resell (can't keep that many horses but if I train them to where someone will want them...) I'm not just going, "Ooh! I trained a pony, pick me, pick me!" They are asking for volunteers to help out.





Ebonyisforme said:


> I am going to be a stay at home mom with little things that I do. For example: I want to learn how to do equine massages, trim hooves, and the training thing. I am not going to be working.


I want to tackle both of these in this post (please bear with the super length because it's all my first hand account with exactly this scenario). If you want to pursue a career in horse training DO IT NOW. Go get every apprenticeship/farm hand job you can, no matter how menial. Work as a groom, muck stalls, feed horses, take riding lessons. Do everything and anything and absorb all the lessons. Forget about tackling project horses, forget about doing training solo. Go get a reputable trainer to train YOU and then to tell you when your ready to take on your co-first greenbroke horse, then a colt, THEN a project horse, then a resale horse. Find a mentor who can guide you; without one a train wreck will happen. I never recommend going to a 'colt starting' group, I recommend finding a bonafide GOOD trainer who will mentor you and nurture you appropriately.... and NOT throw you up on an unbroke colt before you're ready! (Not saying that these people would as I don't know them but this has just been my experience with these places.) 

My own personal experience is as such: I worked as a groom for 10 years, I picked stalls, tacked up horses, fed in the morning and evening, did crap chores such as fixing fencing and electrical work and barely got to ride or touch anything horse training related. What it made me was patient, and observant. Because I spent so long watching and letting a mentor guide me I can tell you which horse is going to have a good ride or a bad ride depending on how they stand in the cross ties. I can muck out a stall 1,001 ways and tack up a horse 1,003 ways. When I left college to do my apprenticeship with my mentor full time (non paid) I did not do so lightly. I've just now hit the point where I'm thrown up on green horses frequently and used for bucking out colts. I'm now at the point where my mentor will throw outside colts at me and send me to the owners home to make a name (and money) for myself. I spent a good 18 YEARS building up this trust and respect between us and being taught. 18 years of mainly chores for no pay and being very observant. 

The truth is that there is NO money in horses. I did not decide to become a horse trainer because of the money. In fact, I decided I did NOT want to be a horse trainer very early on! It was definitely NOT glamorous or even fun at times (and I'm sure that EVERY trainer will agree with this!). I only got drawn back in when I picked up clients during my breaks at college and was offered numerous internships that I had to turn down due to college. I'm well aware and prepared that it will be feast or famine. I know that I will rarely have money to go out and buy a new saddle, or pay a handyman to fix my plumbing. Throughout my experience as an apprentice I've learned to be self sufficient to an extreme and to work from sunup to sundown for $30. I've learned to get thrown and beat to heck and back and still be up the next day to do my job. My fondest memory of my trainer was when I got my first project horse in last year. Long story short owner bought him at auction, said (lied) he was greenbroke and let me climb on. I climbed on and about ten minuets later woke up on their couch with a dislocated shoulder and numerous pains and abrasions. I didn't know what happened but my trainer and one of the older farm neighbors laughed, handed me a glass of water and said "See you at 6 am tomorrow for round two". I had to work with a fractured collar bone, a broken foot, numerous lacerations and a few cracked ribs because I couldn't afford my medical bills if I would've waited and NOT worked. I made $600 in training off of that stupid horse while I was beaten up and that only covered HALF of the x-rays I had to have taken!

Ebony I'm not telling you this so you DON'T become a trainer, nor to scare you away from it. I really am not intending to be patronizing so if this comes across please let me know. I say this because a lot of times it's easy to look in at horse training and say: "I want to be this" but then when you actually get into it it's a whole other ball game that's so vastly different I can't even explain it correctly. In 18 years I can count on one hand all the training horses I've liked to work with and 'got along' with. In 18 years I can't count the times I've been beaten up, bit, kicked, drug, thrown, trampled, cut, burnt, and worked to death. But I also can't count how much being with a trainer one on one has taught me, and I can't count how smart I was to choose a one on one mentor relationship like what I have instead of volunteering. Simply put I'm just offering this advice because I have been here (believe it or not) and just want to get an overview of what it's really like. (I probably should start a blog with all of my experiences at this point in the game! lol)


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Thank you, Incitatus. I go riding with a lady on Saturdays that trained all her horses so occasionally I get to see a "training moment" haha. Other than that, no real trainers in my area unless I wanted to pay someone $30 to ride my horse. :/ (For one half hour ride...)


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I will look for more, though. That would be super fun!


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> Mustang was sold to someone else. Belle is practically (not technically) my sister's pretty sure that because I don't train HER horse, that makes me a bad owner.


No, that does not make you a bad owner. I don't recall anyone calling you a bad OWNER. We've only said you don't have a lot of experience and don't come across as mature. Honestly, if I were dying to ride, I'd ride any horse, wouldn't matter if we "clicked" or not. 



Ebonyisforme said:


> I'M NOT SELLING MIDNIGHT!! I scheduled a chiropractor to come out tomorrow but apparently because I'm not spending thousands and thousands I am still a bad owner? My horses get dewormed, vaccinated, trimmed, shoed if needed, vet visits, etc etc etc as often as they need. I am NOT a trainer right now, scratch that, I am. Everyone that rides a horse is, whether they do it professionally or not. I have taken some advice from here. I sold the horse everyone told me to sell because she was too much for me, I didn't do the free lease everyone was against, I had a vet out twice for Midnight, and a chiro tomorrow. I do listen, I just don't agree with everything you say, because you don't know my situation, nor do you know me. I am sooo tired of this. My life, my horses, my decisions. All I asked was that you give me advice on what to do with Midnight, whether or not to retire her, and I got people telling me to sell my horses, then getting mad about it, telling me to not breed my pony (where did that come from) how bad an owner I am because I didn't get 3 vets out in a week, nope, just two. I am such a bad person, definitely don't deserve to have horses or make my own decisions. Nope.


It's okay if you do not sell Midnight. Just know, you may have to retire her. She may not be able to be ridden again, by children or on short rides. You could probably have one less lesson horse. It's good that you are getting a chiropractor and two vets. Could you give us an update on what they say and what the vets say are your options? Whether you need to retire or semi-retire, where she can only be ridden at the walk and for a short period.

We know, from your posts that you are not experienced enough. I have owned my horse LONGER than you, we are probably at the same experience level. You are probably more experienced but no way experienced enough to take on a foal or an unbroke horse. Neither am I. Most of us on here aren't either, but there are some here that are. That have trained horses longer than you've been alive and have a lot of knowledge. 

Honestly, you are asking for advice on what decisions what YOU should make. So we can speak what we want to help you decide. 

Have open ears and an open mind. Like I said before, sit back and look at yourself. I did. I learned I wasn't ready to train an unbroke horse, I don't think you are either. Whether you are "friends" with the horse from birth.

Like others have said, there are risks in life. Chances are, something bad will happen. You may need a job that pays more than horses will. Besides, unless you get way to the top, I doubt you'll have fifty horses on a waiting list. And the only way to get to the top is to work alongside a trainer. Which you seem to be against doing. 

I would suggest getting a trainer to help you train Whisper. You can work with her. Learn. Help with the training. You WILL learn a lot more than you thought you could learn and it will help you in the long run. Also if you stop whining about how we are saying you should sell all your horses and are a bad owner and listen to our advice, you could come across as more mature. 

Ride Belle, who cares if you don't click. If you work with her, you will increase your riding skills and experience. Keep focusing on helping Midnight. Find a trainer that you can work alongside with to train Whisper. Reconsider all your plans. 

If you start lessons or get a trainer, perhaps they can give you person to person advice on your breeding plans and what not. 

From your earlier post about your daily schedule, it sounds like you have no free time. I think you should drop some things and relax for a bit.

EDIT--

Ask that lady if she'll help with the training of Whisper and give you pointers on where to go. 

As for the college/university, I push that you go. Go for a degree in Business, or in horse message/farrier work, etc. whatever. Be a vet tech if you want to work with horses too. Something as a back up plan if the training thing falls through the roof.


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## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I've grown up my entire life in a religion that supports staying at home moms. I believe, as does my family (probably going to get even more hate for this but whatever.) that men should be responsible to provide for the family. My husband will be of my religion or else I don't want to marry him, because I am going to get married in the temple no matter what.



Then you better make darn sure the guy you marry can support you and your hobby. Reality is most married couples both have to work full time jobs to make ends meet. 

Easy for you to say now your going to be a stay at home mom,things change and in a hurry. Also sometimes Mr right comes from a different religion then yours,so by saying you will only marry someone in your religion. Might mean you wont ever get married..........so think about that.:wink:


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

So i pay $130 a month in board for my mare. then $65 in senior and pellets for her and finance's horse. if you count board for all 3 of our horses we spend $455 in JUST keeping them fed and housed. LUCKILY my Father in law is our farrier so we pay for just shoes at this point (considering we are helping take care of his two). that is NOT including the $305 vet bill i payed last month. Now i work part time (since i cant find full time work) so i dont make alot of money. Between vet bills, phone payment (and i have a 6 year old phone that hardly works) and gas my entire months paycheck is GONE. as in, i dont get to go an have "fun" with friends, i dont get to buy the things i have been wanting for YEARS, i cant board my mare at a better place and i get to live with my parents. 

I LOVE my parents, but after living with them for 23 years, i want my own place, BUT i am horse poor. My fiance is a trainer and fixes problem horses that are minutes away from a bullet. But because he dose not fallow some gimmicky methods people will use him until the horse is no longer dangerous and take their horse to some "fancy" trainer. So there is no money in it, and he is finished dealing with horses, much less other people's. There is almost NO money in horse training. to have alot of horses and/ or be a trainer you need to be independently wealthy on top of it. 
GO TO COLLAGE!!! I am 3 classes away from my AA with a 3.4gpa (thinks its higher, its been months since i checked) and i cant even get a job at mcDonalds! i spend 2 years looking for a job in a large city willing to travel up to 40 miles to work! Horses get expensive and you need a good job to pay for them.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Ebonyisforme said:


> All I asked was that you give me advice on what to do with Midnight, whether or not to retire her


Ok, it wasn't quite clear from your original post that this was the question.

In that case, my answer would be there is not nearly enough medical information for any of us to say anything. Get her properly diagnosed ("has a sore back" is not a diagnosis) by a good horse vet and then decide based on the vet's recommendation. 
If you can't or don't want to spend the money, retire her and put her down at the point where she is no longer pasture sound. 

Anything else - riding her unsound, selling her unsound, giving her away, keeping her past where she is comfortable without diagnosis/treatment is wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Ebony... you may have addressed it before, but I have a genuine question for you. Why do you want to breed this particular mare? I'm sure you have your reasons... but have you considered looking at sale horses? Add up the funds you expect to spend on the breeding, vet care, etc. and then look at some of the breeders in and around your area. In most places you can buy a REALLY nice baby for _less_ than the cost of breeding your own mare. Then you get rid of the possibility of losing your mare, you don't have to wait through the pregnancy, you have a horse with good bloodlines and conformation, you get EXACTLY what you want instead of relying on chance.


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## pixelsandponies (Apr 6, 2013)

Ebony, you have no idea how much _*good*_ advice has been given to you in this thread. You seem to only hear what you want to hear, and you don't seem to be taking many, if any, suggestions to heart.

So many people have taken time out of their busy lives to read through your questions/posts and to type out thoughtful guidance and encouragement. It's a real shame that it seems to be falling on deaf ears. 

I won't echo what has already been said, but I will wish you the best of luck. Life with horses is certainly a journey, and some lessons must be learned the hard way.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Unless your religion has arranged marriages how do you know someone will want to marry you & you him? What if that connection doesn't happen?


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

natisha said:


> Unless your religion has arranged marriages how do you know someone will want to marry you & you him? What if that connection doesn't happen?


Exactly. Even if an arranged marriage is the norm what would happen if it fell through? Finding a compatible partner isn't an easy thing, and finding one isn't a guarantee. Finding one that you're compatible with who can ALSO support a lifestyle with multiple kids and multiple horses while you stay at home can be an even bigger challenge. You've mentioned that you've had to wait 10 years to be in a position where you can have horses. What will happen to your horses if you and that future husband cannot support them while you're getting on your feet? What if you do get married to an ideal guy and the circumstances change? He (heaven forbid) passes away, gets in an accident and cannot work, turns abusive and you are forced to leave? No one wants to think about those things happening, but they do every day. You don't want to be stuck with hungry horses and children to feed with no marketable skills. 

I don't have any problems at all with someone being a stay at home mom and having the husband being the main provider for the family. It's the way my family was- dad went to work, mom stayed home to take care of us and the household. We were fortunate that such an arrangement was possible in our case. However, my parents brought me up to have my own skills to provide for myself. They'd be perfectly happy if I got married at the right age, had a couple of kids and horses, and never had to work a formal job again. But, they don't want that to be my only option. Do yourself a favor and plan for the possibility that your prince charming won't come along in a timely fashion or that he may be unable to fully provide for everything your family needs.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

Chiro will be here in an hour and a half! I am soo excited! Hoping she just knocked something out of place...even if she didn't, I know she needs some things adjusted!


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

No arranged marriages, haha.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't know...I don't think I am expected to know what I want to do with the rest of my life at my age, haha.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I don't know...I don't think I am expected to know what I want to do with the rest of my life at my age, haha.


Of course not. I certainly didn't. But when you have animals relying on you that means you need to make these plans. Going through high school not knowing what you want to do is one thing when you aren't going to suddenly be stuck providing for yourself and multiple horses. It's another thing entirely when you do. They're relying on you to care for them, so you do need to start planning now... Especially with regards to how many you can feasibly care for in the long term. There's a reason I don't have multiple horses and I'm about ten years older than you  right now I probably could pay for a second horse because my parents help out a tremendous amount with mine. Once I'm out of school and in the real would I probably wouldn't be able to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> My mare with the back problems might be permanently unusable. She is good for little rides, but whenever I get on her, I just feel guilty. I could probably ride her and everything, but just knowing that it hurts makes me never want to ride again.
> 
> So, really, I don't know what to do. I have to ride. I am training my pony, but I only ride her for short periods of time because she is too small for me. My options: try to save up and get a horse this winter when the cost of horses goes down (everyone doesn't want to buy hay) but...I am going to be breeding Wisper (please don't post about that) so won't have a whole ton of money to save up for a while, plus, I would totally miss the entire warm season of riding and not be able to ride for like 6 months.
> 
> Or, I can just not ride.  Or, I can sell Midnight. :shock::-( Or, I can sell Wisper:shock::-( and use the money to buy a horse I can ride. Obviously, don't want to do either of those three options. My parents would probably be fine with another horse as long as I bought it or it was free. But....they are picky. Can't be sorrel(don't ask me why) or too old, or too young, or have arthritis, no matter how minor, or have a weird scar on their face, or be missing an eye, or buck occasionally, etc. etc. etc. More into the cosmetic part of horses than the actual horse, haha. Opinions? Support? Anything? I haven't rode for like a month and I am DYING!



Not sure which horse is which, so just general advice.

1. It would be kinder to the horse with the bad back to just put her down instead of selling her. Few people want a horse that can't work.
1a. If you're thinking of breeding the horse with the bad back, that's really cruel. If her back is bad enough that you can't ride, it's not going to be a pleasant experience to have a foal in her belly, putting extra weight on her back.
2. If the horse with the bad back only has a bad back, see if you can have her trained to drive. That way she's still useful and has better odds of not being sent to the slaughterhouse straightaway if you sell her.
3. Why do you have a pony that's too small for you to ride, since riding is that important? You could consider selling her instead of the horse with the bad back.
4. I think you should think about why just training your pony and being with your animals doesn't fulfill you at all. It clearly doesn't if you're actively training one, spending time with the other, and still are dying to ride so badly. It's fine if you enjoy the riding part the most out of having horses, but if that's the case, then again you need to consider why you have the pony that you can't ride when riding is your #1 priority.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> I don't know...I don't think I am expected to know what I want to do with the rest of my life at my age, haha.


It seems like your life has already been planned for you.


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## Somethin Bout A Whiz (Jan 12, 2015)

Wow...


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

The weight of many harnesses is such that the weight of the driver is actually over the same general area that the saddle would be. This is part of the reason that is "easier" to break harness broke horses to saddle. They are used to the weight and equipment. This is at least true for standardbreds. So driving a horse with a bad back is just as bad as riding it.


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## Ebonyisforme (Oct 23, 2013)

No, not breeding Midnight! Haha, chiro came out, adjusted some things. Her pelvic was totally twisted so he fixed that. Her neck is not muscled near enough. Her teeth are too sharp and she has parrot jaw so getting her teeth floated this week. Her sternum was sore, her stride on one side was waaay shorter than the other and when he left it was noticeably better. He said that she should be at least 50% better by tomorrow. He is coming again in two weeks to do a tune up and then he thinks she should be good.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

good job!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Ebonyisforme said:


> No, not breeding Midnight! Haha, chiro came out, adjusted some things. Her pelvic was totally twisted so he fixed that. Her neck is not muscled near enough. Her teeth are too sharp and she has parrot jaw so getting her teeth floated this week. Her sternum was sore, her stride on one side was waaay shorter than the other and when he left it was noticeably better. He said that she should be at least 50% better by tomorrow. He is coming again in two weeks to do a tune up and then he thinks she should be good.


Glad to hear there was something there, and it's fixable! You may find she is still a bit reluctant initially because she is waiting for the pain, and can be a bit tender after manipulation. Hope to hear more great results after two weeks.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

rookie said:


> The weight of many harnesses is such that the weight of the driver is actually over the same general area that the saddle would be. This is part of the reason that is "easier" to break harness broke horses to saddle. They are used to the weight and equipment. This is at least true for standardbreds. So driving a horse with a bad back is just as bad as riding it.


 What??????? Load is carried over the shoulder and neck on a driving horse with a different area of distribution and very small contact point. Horse uses its hindquarters to push into the load. For a rider weight is distributed by the saddle across and down the length of the back. While both are using the same muscles the manner in which they are used and the muscles favored and amt of work they do differs by job (driving vs riding). Care should be taken with any horse that has a sore back but there are conditions that make driving a better option than riding for the horse or soreness will result.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

rookie said:


> The weight of many harnesses is such that the weight of the driver is actually over the same general area that the saddle would be. This is part of the reason that is "easier" to break harness broke horses to saddle. They are used to the weight and equipment. This is at least true for standardbreds. So driving a horse with a bad back is just as bad as riding it.



I know 4 horses with kissing spines that would disagree with you. None of them can bear a rider but they can pull a buggy - and do so HAPPILY.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I am not sure that its fact but that is what some harness drivers and trainers told me. I am not 100% convinced of it and they may have been speaking strictly to harness racing equipment. It might be utter junk but I was not one to argue; however, I don't think that a horse that is unsuitable to ride it should instantly be driven. A horse that is being driven needs to have a certain temperament that some riding horses don't have. Driving a horse is much more dangerous than riding one and you need to know what your horse is going to do in a certain situation.


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## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> For example, people told me I couldn't train Wisper. Going on 4th ride with no buck, bolt, rear, kick, bite, or anything bad.


Sweetie, I don't remember anyone saying you couldn't train Whisper. I remember lots of people BEGGING you not to sit on her back. She's too small for you. People are frustrated, because you don't listen to sound facts (like the fact that you should not sit on this little pony).

And we're frustrated that not only do you shake off things like that, but your parents seem to lack the knowledge and involvement to oversee these matters properly.

You've gone through a lot of horses in three years. :-|


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## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

Ebonyisforme said:


> No, not breeding Midnight! Haha, chiro came out, adjusted some things. Her pelvic was totally twisted so he fixed that. Her neck is not muscled near enough. Her teeth are too sharp and she has parrot jaw so getting her teeth floated this week. Her sternum was sore, her stride on one side was waaay shorter than the other and when he left it was noticeably better. He said that she should be at least 50% better by tomorrow. He is coming again in two weeks to do a tune up and then he thinks she should be good.



Wonderful!


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

SueNH said:


> I'm going to be bad for moment for a good reason.
> 
> Horses at the Cranbury or better known as Camelot Auction house. It's owned by the Carpers, killer buyers with a history. Frank Carper is one of New Holland's most notorious. But there a plenty of others.
> 
> ...


OT, but wanted to throw out there that Camelot is, as of January, now run by some far nastier people who definitely should be in jail. I boarded across the street from them for five years and we weren't allowed to ride past their farm for fear of our horses picking up something. I used to go to Camelot all the time, but will never go again under this management. Really scary group of people.

Yay for Midnight! Good chiros are the best. Just watch her a little more carefully, my gelding gets hot after big adjustments because he feels so darn good.


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