# What colour?



## Drie16 (May 3, 2018)

Hi, I'm working with a new mare and I would like to know how is the name of her colour. I've never seen before. 
The mother is brown, father unknown colour. I don't have photos when she was younger, in one photo is she with her mother in the back of the picture. The mare is now 2 years old.


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## Drie16 (May 3, 2018)




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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Colour shifted appy. That makes it hard to tell what colour is underneath, but I might go with silver black based on the tail white. (Do apps come in silver?)


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I've not heard that they do. I would have said silver bay. Is it an appy? It has similar characteristics.


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

I'd guess bay with appaloosa varnish, no silver. Varnish can lighten points and silver the tail on its own. This is a filly I used to own:










She was born solid bay but at 2 years her lower legs turned brown, her tail turned white, and she exploded with white hairs across her back and face. She was a registered appaloosa. Her father was a solid palomino and her mother was bay with a blanket.










Here she is before her color came in.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Pretty mare @kiltsrhot


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Drie is in Slovakia and I suspect this is the mare from most of her other threads. She is a backyard pet that is cart horse cross. Possible but not likely to be Appy. Since she is pastured with mom I suspect that the bay is the dam. So that leaves the cart horse for the color and spots. I suspect there are color shifting and or spotted horse breeds more common there.


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## Drie16 (May 3, 2018)

QtrBel said:


> Drie is in Slovakia and I suspect this is the mare from most of her other threads. She is a backyard pet that is cart horse cross. Possible but not likely to be Appy. Since she is pastured with mom I suspect that the bay is the dam. So that leaves the cart horse for the color and spots. I suspect there are color shifting and or spotted horse breeds more common there.


I have started this thread because this is a little mistery for me. As said, she is a cart horse and a backyard pet and color shifting is not usual here, even in cart horses. The dam and the stallion have no pedigree, it's all "consumer" breeding. You know, good working cart horse breeds with good riding horse so in the ideal case, they will get a allround horse for hobby riding. This is the mentality here, if it is incorrect, please tell me. I'll learn


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

My guess, and that's all it is, is that she's going to go grey.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Drie that is fine and I understand. She is what many would say are grade backyard mutts here. What breeds are common to your area? That gives us an idea of what may be happening with her coat. The mother is bay and from the looks of her that is what she passed to the mare. Bay is black points with red body. So the mother has black for her base and and also the agouti gene that gives her black points and red (or brown) body. The dad added something else. Maybe gray, maybe maybe varnish roan, maybe a combination that color shifts from a black base to that bronze color. Here that would say appaloosa breed. It goes with the mottled muzzle and striped hooves. Appaloosa is not from your area of the world but there are breeds that have similar genes. So if we know some of the common breeds that could have been crossed we can help figure out color. Having pictures from birth and season to season also helps but many don't have that if they did not own the horse their entire life.


She also could be liver chestnut from pictures in other threads.


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## Drie16 (May 3, 2018)

I know here are some A1/1, KWPN, Hucul horses and Muranian Noriks (Muransky norik). The Noriks are our national breed, so there is a lot of them.
EDIT: She has three black and one white hoof, I guess. But definitely not stripped


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Well Norikers come spotted (leopard type) and have roan. They do not have gray. Could well be that there is some of that mixed in. Huculs come in the basic shades and have a form of dun and when I googled one of the pages said they also have "dapple". Because of translation I am not sure how that works or if it is the silver gene they are referring to. There is no mention of gray for them either. I'd say either or both are possible.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

The mottled skin on the muzzle says "Appaloosa" to me. Maybe not a registered Appaloosa as we know them, but something with Appaloosa coloration.

I know they have appaloosa colored horses in Europe. There are Knabstruppers and appaloosa colored drafts over there. I was even watching a video a few days ago from Romania that showed two appaloosa colored draft horses.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

One of my Belgian mares has mottled muzzle and partially mottled undercarriage. She is far from being an Appy. The point was there are not likely going to be Appaloosa horses running around in Slovakia. Some of those genes do occur in other breeds. Whatever the combination without knowing anything about the sire we are just guessing. Perhaps if Drie is curious enough she could have some color tests done.


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## BzooZu (Jan 12, 2014)

Actually I wouldnt discard Appaloosa coloring at all. They are not that uncommon here as you may think. We have more than a few western oriented ranches that breed them. With the mare's height I would discount mini horses which you can find in all colors of rainbow though.

So with all that I do think that one of the horses parents was an appy and the mare is color shifted varnished bay.



PS: Hello fellow Slovak person


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

If that horse isn't Lp, I'll eat my hat. While not Apply breed, that's appy colouring.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I agree ApuetsoT. I just don't think it came from an Appy though Bzoozu. That is just my opinion though. The mother of the mare is pictured and there are no Appy traits there. That leaves the "carthorse" sire. If her size is correct I suspect Noriker or perhaps Knabstrupper cross of some sort. It really is irrelevant. The genes are there. The are found in the local breeds. Not all of the traits though. No striped hooves. With the cost of importing and breeding I would not think a breeder would just allow indiscriminate breeding though it isn't impossible just unlikely. I would think it would be similar to grades here. Everyone (g) wants to claim something special. I also think if silver is in the gene pool it could be both are present. Makes for an interesting discussion.


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## BzooZu (Jan 12, 2014)

I dont disagree QtrBel, the genes could have come from anywhere. I am not seeing any draft in the mare though (draft horse is synonymous with cart horse here) and Norikers are very thick. Also a Knabstruppers are much more difficult to find around here than an Appy. You dont need to import anything as many Appaloosas (registered or not) are already here.

Silver I wouldnt even consider myself. No breeds that have it are common around here and also the mare doesnt look silver - if she is red/chestnut base, silver wouldnt show up at all. If she is black base (bay) her legs coloring doesnt look like silver at all. And then we have all the spots.

Anyway, dont want to argue. Whether the color comes from appy or another breed, I agree with ApuetsoT that the mare is Lp.


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## Drie16 (May 3, 2018)

BzooZu said:


> I dont disagree QtrBel, the genes could have come from anywhere. I am not seeing any draft in the mare though (draft horse is synonymous with cart horse here) and Norikers are very thick. Also a Knabstruppers are much more difficult to find around here than an Appy. You dont need to import anything as many Appaloosas (registered or not) are already here.
> 
> Silver I wouldnt even consider myself. No breeds that have it are common around here and also the mare doesnt look silver - if she is red/chestnut base, silver wouldnt show up at all. If she is black base (bay) her legs coloring doesnt look like silver at all. And then we have all the spots.
> 
> Anyway, dont want to argue. Whether the color comes from appy or another breed, I agree with ApuetsoT that the mare is Lp.


Yes, Appys breed here, but not in area around and the owner would not drive a horse from the breeder surely. She has them only as a grass choper pets, so he won't invest too much money.
PS. Oh, nice to know I'm not alone here!  


QtrBel said:


> Well Norikers come spotted (leopard type) and have roan. They do not have gray. Could well be that there is some of that mixed in. Huculs come in the basic shades and have a form of dun and when I googled one of the pages said they also have "dapple". Because of translation I am not sure how that works or if it is the silver gene they are referring to. There is no mention of gray for them either. I'd say either or both are possible.


Thanks! 

Thank you all, I'll hopefully see her growing so we can see who was right. And I'll try to speak with owner who was the "father" (How is this called by horses in english?)


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Her sire.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I agree, who cares what breed she she is she absolutely positively has the leopard (appy) gene. After all, some Appy's don't have that either... If there are local breeds that carry that gene then that is that.

She does not need to have every single characteristic of the gene but she has multiple, including most obviously the coat changes, if the only thing she doesn't have is striped hooves that is irrelevant she has everything else. She's a VERY typical example, I'm surprised at the answers here.

I also guess she is likely just a normal bay with the lp (leopard) gene.


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