# Foal Colour??



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

A sorrel with a dun (assuming you mean bay dun) can produce: Bay, Bay dun, Chestnut/sorrel or chestnut dun. Has the stud been tested for how many black genes he has? If he's got 2 you'll get either a bay or a bay dun, if he has 2 dun genes you'll get a bay dun or a chestnut dun. It depends alot how many of each gene the stallion has, the sorrel mare can't add much to the foal only really take away. Unless she's got silver somewhere in her ancestry?


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Black and grullo are also possibilities as long as neither the sire nor dam are homozygous for agouti.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

PunksTank said:


> It depends alot how many of each gene the stallion has, the sorrel mare can't add much to the foal only really take away. Unless she's got silver somewhere in her ancestry?


1) Silver is very rare in stock breeds, so I wouldn't count on it.

2) I'm not sure what you mean by "take away from the foal." Chestnut is homozygous red, which means the mare will absolutely pass it on to her foal. Also, because she is red, she could carry the agouti gene unbeknownst to us. 

But, as stated in those to posts: Bay, black, chestnut, red dun, bay dun, grullo.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Sorry what I meant by chestnut's taking genes away is that they can hide so much if the black gene doesn't carry on. Pretty much only cream and dun are the only dilutions that actually show up on them. So unless the dun carries on the black gene the chestnut is 'taking away' the other genes, by hiding them. Sorry for the choice of words. 
Cool to know about the silver gene in stocks, I didn't take breed into consideration, thanks.
Yes, black and grullo are possible but I doubt it, most chestnuts carry at least one agouti gene, and him being a bay dun leads me to believe he does too - so while it's possible, I doubt it'll happen. 
I think chestnut, bay, bay dun and chestnut dun are the most likely outcomes. With black and grullo being very rarely likely.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

We're not even sure if the sire is bay dun or not. No pictures and the OP hasn't been back to this thread to confirm one way or another...


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

good point


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## anniegirl (Oct 7, 2012)

yes..sire is bay dun..he has not been tested as far as I know...lots of interesting guesses here...this is our first foal...was kinda hoping he/she would be a paint...as mare is tobiano...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

If you had pictures of both sire and dam we could have far more educated guesses.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

If the mare is homozygous for tobiano, she will pass it on. If she's heterozygous, then she has a 50% chance of passing it on. 

If both of her parents were tobiano, there's a chance she's homozygous. Otherwise she's definitely heterozygous.


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## anniegirl (Oct 7, 2012)

I dont have a pic of the sire...but he is a bay dun...and here's the mare...


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## anniegirl (Oct 7, 2012)

Here is a pick of the sire...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

He doesn't look like a dun to me. He has a dorsal but no other primitive markings, and his coat is a very rich colour. Dorsals can be caused by countershading as well as dun, so it is not a case of dorsal=dun. As well as that, dun is a dilution gene, which means it causes the body colour of the horse to lighten, usually very significantly. The only ones I have ever seen without huge amount of lightening to the coat still had the flat, dull colour of a dun. This horse does not - he is bright and rich in colour.


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## anniegirl (Oct 7, 2012)

This was taken when he was a yearling...here's another when he had just turned two...six months ago...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Still not dun IMHO.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

I don't see dun either...And that's a pretty young stud to be breeding.


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Well, It depends on what the parents would have for genetics, I would suggest you check out this website: Color Calculator
its really great. it tells you exactly what you might get!

also, on the dun argument, He could possibly be a dun, the first pic of him running, looks edited and brightened, so your not getting his real color, he looks more of a dun in the second one, I see "edged" ears, the dorsal strip in the first one seems pretty solid to be counter shading on a bay, and I can see a hint of striping on the legs, FYI, duns don't always have leg barring, or even dorsal stripes. But i think the ear edging points, IMHO, to a definite dun.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

This guy I have posted is not dun, nor could he possibly be. However, he does show you a very solid, very defined dorsal that is countershading.

As for duns not having dorsals or leg barring, they ALWAYS have a dorsal, and ALMOST ALWAYS have leg barring. The problem is with people being able to see it. Ear edging is not a dun factor marking - ear tipping is, and the horse posted by the OP does not have ear tips.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Bay horses can and do have black rimmed ears. It is not considered a form of dun factor.


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## anniegirl (Oct 7, 2012)

I didnt own the stallion...he was in with the herd when we bought our mare in may....I saw him for about 2 min from a distance...and was told he was a dun...Im no expert...just wondering what the possiblilties were for foal colours...thought it would be neat to hear anyone else's experiences with simular crosses...Im hoping and praying for a paint...but at the end of the day just want a healthy foal...and on another note...the ppl we got her from said she was bread in may...our vet on the other hand is trying to tell us she is much further along ...so....now i have no idea when I should start losing sleep...she is maiden on top of it...lol:?


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