# Bamber: Grullo or Smoky Bay pinto?



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

_Bamber_, my new 5-year-old Paint/Quarter Pony (? -- all the breeders were clear about were Paint from his dam, and were vague on his sire), is giving me a little thought. 

When I saw the ad, the owners advertised a grullo paint. But to me he looks more like a smoky/dark bay?? As far as I'm aware grullo is a little less "brown" than what he is. 

What do you guys think? 

His 2-year-old pictures:










Today, August 31: 


















Also, you can see on the bridge of his nose where a halter rubbed him and indented his face a little... the owners kept a halter on him constantly because he's a hard catch. I was quick to swipe it off of him as soon as he was unloaded into his new home!


----------



## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Do you happen to have anymore pics of him?


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

I have a bunch more that I snapped today... the owner is supposed to get back at me with baby pictures; she says she has _lots_ of files on her computer and has to sort through years and years of pictures. 

I'm cropping/re-sizing the ones I took today, I'll post those ASAP.


----------



## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm leaning toward bay, he doesn't look like a grullo to me. But the reason I asked for more pics was because I think... he may be buckskin. But I'm not an expert on color.


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

Will this one do, or do you need more? I haven't noticed any leg barring, which first peaked my curiosity on _if_ he's a grullo.


----------



## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Well the white could hide barring but Grullo is usually more silver blue like. I don't think he is a Grullo. I think he is either a sooty buckskin (brownskin) or a light bay. The only reason I think he is a buckskin is the younger pics (I know foal coat colors do change). He doesn't look bay in them. There are color experts on here who could tell you for certain... but that's what I see when I look at him.


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm hoping that one of the forum experts will stumble on this.  I don't want to sound like a fool and say "grullo" and have someone see him, and tell me how silly I am -- _not a grullo_. I'm pretty sure he isn't. The one leg with the stocking would show a little barring but I haven't seen any...


----------



## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I love his markings, especially the one that is on his neck that looks like a band.


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

As do I... I especially love the asymmetry of them! I also like to think that the "C" shape on his left side stands for _Carrie_. So he was made for me... right? ;]


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I don't see grullo either. This is really out there, but he reminds me of a sable champagne (brown + champagne). Do you happen to know what his parents are? That would narrow it down quite a bit.

But at the same time, (from these pictures at least) he doesn't seem to have any champagne traits like amber eyes and mottled skin.

I'm not sure, to be honest. :?


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

Poseidon said:


> Do you happen to know what his parents are? That would narrow it down quite a bit.



His dam was much like him, only a smidge _lighter_ in color. Almost a buckskin? His sire died earlier this year, bit if I'm not mistaken the owner's said he was a Palomino. He had his half-sister on site, and she looked almost palomino paint. 

It's hard to see, but the three are here. His dam, Atreyu, half-sister (?), and Bamber. I wish I'd have taken more pictures when I went to the go-see. :/


----------



## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Based on that picture and what you just said I'm going to say he is a sooty buckskin.


----------



## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Maybe a smoky black?


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Smoky black doesn't look any different than fading black. Genetic testing is the only way to be 100% for smoky black, you can't look at a horse and see any difference.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Looks like a dark buckskin or a brownskin to me.


----------



## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Agree with NDappy, my money's on sooty/smutty buckskin. I think by smoky bay you mean buckskin?


----------



## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Definately a buckskin. (tobiano if you are currious about the pattern)

And definately not a grullo.


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

Gremmy said:


> Agree with NDappy, my money's on sooty/smutty buckskin. I think by smoky bay you mean buckskin?



I think what I meant is _Sooty_, not smoky. Lol My boss has a horse, registered dark bay, who has been called a "sooty" bay; they're similar, so that's what I thought of.


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

Dug up some more pictures; any more opinions are appreciated.  He _does_ have a dorsal stripe, too. (I'm told buckskin's _do not_ have the stripe?)


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

The one pic where you see his dorsal, it doesn't look like a dun made dorsal but countershading to me. 


Here is a good example - Two are dun, one is countershading... Which is the countershading?

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

Wow, I've never heard of countershading.  

I wonder which one it is?  (My vote goes to the closest one. XD)


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Bays and buckskins most commonly have countershading, _but_ it can show up on any horse. All it is is a dorsal stripe without being dun. Dun dorsals do have some defining characteristics, but both countershading/dorsals can mimic each other. :lol:


----------



## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Just wanna say, u guys are so good at this. I really wouldnt have guessed Buckskin at all, lol.... He's darker than my bay (that may or may not be a buckskin) that I posted last month, and yet he's a Buckskin. And for the life of me I can never really keep tobiono and overo (and their patterns) straight. I get so confused, and I just enjoy to see how much smart u guys r than me!  LOL!


----------



## Creampuff (Dec 1, 2010)

Wheatermay said:


> Just wanna say, u guys are so good at this. I really wouldnt have guessed Buckskin at all, lol.... He's darker than my bay (that may or may not be a buckskin) that I posted last month, and yet he's a Buckskin. And for the life of me I can never really keep tobiono and overo (and their patterns) straight. I get so confused, and I just enjoy to see how much smart u guys r than me!  LOL!



Amen to this!  I enjoy learning about the different "tones" of coat colors, patterns, etc. 

I'll admit I was _very_ surprised to find out he could be a buckskin; I would have never so much as suggested it (as you can see it the title, I thought he was a sooty bay).


----------

