# New to horse riding - hard time adjusting to mostly female group



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

*WELCOME to the Forum!!*

Here on HF you are "anonymous" and we have had all sorts of "rider comfort" threads started and great honest answers offered to help our members.
Ask away....
We have many members of the male genre or us females often have kids as riders who have expressed those same issues to their moms and we too searched out advice and solutions for them.

Depending upon the nature of your questions....
*Horse riding and Horse Activities*
or
*Horse Talk...*
These may be a area to start your thread...
🐴...


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

My son's experience has been that what you wear next to the skin can make all the difference and saddles are not all the same. The twist and padding can determine comfort level. He is into eventing so arena, stadium jumping and cross country. Trails too around the house. He has ridden western but the woman he rode with had a saddle that fit him well. No complaints.


----------



## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Don't worry about bringing it up to the trainers if you can't work things out. It could be saddle issue or position which your instructor is better able to help in real time. I am a woman but have had quite a few adult male beginners get into riding and I've had many a blunt talk. The following is what I've learned...

Definitely try wearing close fit, breathable underpants. If things move you're in trouble. Like you want to position things ahead of time and have it stay that way once you're on. Invest in even just one high quality expensive pair for riding only, even. You want things out in front, so to speak. Never under. If you have done this and are finding you're lacking room in front and things are bashing...

1. you are potentially going into the foetal position and leaning forwards trying to balance.
2. more common in my experience is the saddle is too small. If you're new, just to better explain, its always important that a saddle fits the horse. But there ARE different seat sizes for the riders. One gentleman I went out with found that the lesson places we went were catered more for women and children... so rarely had a properly sized horse much less a saddle.

If everything else has been ruled out and its obvious the saddle is too small its unlikely the same horse will have multiple saddles of different seat sizes. The next best option is to try find a larger horse (which doesn't always mean bigger seat but it is more common).

Lastly if you're learning sitting trot or rising (posting) and are defensively leaning forward when things go ouch or you lose balance... you have to consciously fight that urge and find a better position. One man I rode with for months, weekly lessons, just always leaned forward whenever he lost his balance trying to learn to trot. He could never relax to sit and he could never relax to ride/post because he was hesitant to "sit down". Canter was disaster. The only thing that helped was short trot/walk transitions. So a couple strides of trot and then walk, then trot etc. Another thing that helped was having the instructor lunge the horse so he could focus only on his position rather than steering.


----------



## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Also female but I’ve been told by frinds that (as mentioned above) underwater has to be snug to keep everything in place and that they tilt their pelvis slightly to the back, as if sitting on your pockets. Not enough to be very noticeable but enough to keep the goods in front of you.


----------



## CR200111 (Aug 14, 2021)

Kalraii said:


> Don't worry about bringing it up to the trainers if you can't work things out. It could be saddle issue or position which your instructor is better able to help in real time. I am a woman but have had quite a few adult male beginners get into riding and I've had many a blunt talk. The following is what I've learned...
> 
> Definitely try wearing close fit, breathable underpants. If things move you're in trouble. Like you want to position things ahead of time and have it stay that way once you're on. Invest in even just one high quality expensive pair for riding only, even. You want things out in front, so to speak. Never under. If you have done this and are finding you're lacking room in front and things are bashing...
> 
> ...


Thank you this is very helpful. You meantioned having a blunt conversaiton, how do I phrase it without being too awkward? I think they've seen be bang my parts on the pommel and be in pain.


----------



## CR200111 (Aug 14, 2021)

Horsef said:


> Also female but I’ve been told by frinds that (as mentioned above) underwater has to be snug to keep everything in place and that they tilt their pelvis slightly to the back, as if sitting on your pockets. Not enough to be very noticeable but enough to keep the goods in front of you.


I understand the idea of keeping your weight back, but I don't know how that keeps the goods in front of me.


----------



## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

CR200111 said:


> I understand the idea of keeping your weight back, but I don't know how that keeps the goods in front of me.


Your bits need to be in front of you sitting neutral. Literally. They need to be up and out of the way as well as possible from the get-go until you figure things out. Then as you do the bouncy stuff you lean slightly back. You keep the goods in front of you with a solid pair of underwear. Seriously, I remember we used medical tape (easily rips) over my friends boxer shorts before our lesson. Its like using boob tape. After that he got the most unflattering pair of tighty wh.itey calvin klein underwear  The kind most would be embarrassed to wear on a date  Speaking bluntly if you still don't have enough room, then its the saddle fit. I've ridden a fair few saddles that don't accept my bum. It can affect us ladies as well in the front when the seat is too short (front to back).

As for the conversation you can simply say "I've taken extra measures to ensure comfort, but I don't think this saddle is the right seat size for me. Or, can you please check my position and let me know if I'm leaning forward too much or need to change my leg position?" - I one time had to repeat, on repeat, endlessly, "leg forward down, leg forward down, sit up, sit back" because friend would find his legs out behind him excessively and that would push him onto his jewels. Watching him lean so forward, clutching mane and losing all brain function is an image I'll never forget. To make you feel less embarrassed think about how us ladies have the talk about the time of the month, pads and the red sea. God forbid a misfitting wool dagger lol.

Lastly go youtube and search for videos of your chosen discipline (maybe its just western or english, nothing more) and carefully make note of how they are sitting and where their leg and hands are. Watch some videos on positioning. Don't worry, when learning you might focus on leg first and your seat goes wonky. You might focus on your hands and suddenly you forget about your leg. You might focus on sitting deep and suddenly forget how to steer. Is very normal.


----------



## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

I had the same issue when I began riding. A guy named Caprilli wrote about riding and he stressed being balanced in the saddle and letting the horse move naturally and moving naturally with the horse, both of you in balance. When I worked on improving my balance , that issue went away. For the record, I dont wear underwear.


----------



## CR200111 (Aug 14, 2021)

Kalraii said:


> Your bits need to be in front of you sitting neutral. Literally. Then as you do the bouncy stuff you lean slightly back. You keep the goods in front of you with a solid pair or underwear. Seriously, I remember we used medical tape (easily rips) over my friends boxer shorts before our lesson. Its like using boob tape. After that he got the most unflattering pair of tighty **** calvin klein underwear  The kind most would be embarrassed to wear on a date  Speaking bluntly if you still don't have enough room, then its the saddle fit. I've ridden a fair few saddles that don't accept my bum. It can affect us ladies as well in the front when the seat is too short (front to back).
> 
> As for the conversation you can simply say "I've taken extra measures to ensure comfort, but I don't think this saddle is the right seat size for me. Or, can you please check my position and let me know if I'm leaning forward too much or need to change my leg position?" - I one time had to repeat, on repeat, endlessly, "leg forward down, leg forward down" because friend would find his legs out behind him excessively and that would push him onto his jewels.
> 
> Lastly go youtube and search for videos of your chosen discipline (maybe its just western or english, nothing more) and carefully make note of how they are sitting and where their leg and hands are. Watch some videos on positioning. Don't worry, when learning you might focus on leg first and your seat goes wonky. You might focus on your hands and suddenly you forget about your leg. You might focus on sitting deep and suddenly forget how to steer. Is very normal.


Thank you! This is very helpful. I guess it was just embarrassing showing I was in pain down there when I banged myself against the pommel since they were women and may not understand what had just happened.


----------



## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

TrainedByMares said:


> I had the same issue when I began riding. A guy named Caprilli wrote about riding and he stressed being balanced in the saddle and letting the horse move naturally and moving naturally with the horse, both of you in balance. When I worked on improving my balance , that issue went away. For the record, I dont wear underwear.


I have many questions but the burning one is.. zips?!!! 🤣


----------



## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Oh and another way you can phrase things "I don't think the seat is big enough for my bum and it affects everything else." They'll understand I promise!


----------



## CR200111 (Aug 14, 2021)

Kalraii said:


> Oh and another way you can phrase things "I don't think the seat is big enough for my bum and it affects everything else." They'll understand I promise!


What about the embarrassment from accidentally banging the jewels on the pommel? They saw it happen and giggled. Do you think they understand how much that hurts?


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Dang. Being a guy myself....I wear tighty whities and jeans. I've worn them using English, Australian and Western saddles. What follows is best taken with a big steaming cup of FWIW:

1 - Two point. Standing in the stirrups. Best way I know to develop the balance to be WITH your horse, and life is easier on both horse and rider when they are in balance together. From two point, you can lower yourself into the saddle. A US Cavalry officer and Olympic Team Captain described it like this:

"_An excellent way to take the correct seat is, first: - place one hand on the pommel of the saddle to steady one's self, and stand in the stirrups, completely out of the saddle. The body leans forward slightly while standing in the stirrups. Next, relax the ankle joints so the heels, driven by the body's weight, are forced far down, at the same time taking care that the stirrup-straps are vertical, and that the lower legs are fixed in place against the horse's sides. The legs should not be allowed to change position during the rest of the procedure of taking the seat. Allow the toes to turn out naturally so that the calves come automatically against the horse's sides. Then, holding the lower legs in place with the knees fixed against the saddle, let the seat down into the saddle by flexing the knee joints and leaning forward from the hips at the same time, so as to place the buttocks far to the rear over the cantle...Straighten up the body from the hips until seated in a natural and erect position. There should be a very slight forward inclination from the hips, which distributes part of the weight of the body and legs down the thighs, through the relaxed ankles and knees, into the greatly depressed heels..._

_...The natural position of the spine - slightly hollowed out at the loin - should be maintained. This and the forward inclination of the body will permit only the anterior portions of the pelvic bones to rest on the saddle...When riding, the weight of the body borne by the heels (through the stirrups) and in addition, that of the legs themselves, keep pushing the heels and knees down with each stride. This closes the calves against the horse if the knee joints are relaxed, makes the contact constant, and gripping with the calves, or even the knees, very easy. The rider is in balance...._"







2 - Sitting trot is over-rated. I'm in my 60s and a previous back injury makes it too easy to twist my back. I've gone back to my Forward Seat roots and use a half-seat (or two point) for trotting and cantering. My back cannot flex and it is far better for me AND MY HORSE if I absorb shock via my knees instead of my back. 

3 - When walking, and anticipating a possible spook - which can happen with my horse and my riding - I get "on my pockets". Sitting, but not erect. Slouch enough that my belt buckle moves back a finger's width. Leave my legs in the same place and just slouch a little. It makes for a good defensive seat.

4 - It ALSO prevents me from rotating my pelvis too far forward. Leaning from the hips isn't an issue, but rotating my pelvis forward can cause problems with any saddle.

What you are experiencing are largely position and balance issues. Not clothing and saddle issues. I recommend reading COMMON SENSE HORSEMANSHIP by VS Littauer. Online free here:









Common Sense Horseman Ship : Vladimir S. Littauer : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive






archive.org





Amazon usually has used copies for sale. What he taught is essentially the American Military Seat. It is what the US Cavalry taught after 1925 or so. I don't jump so I prefer a longer leg than Littauer taught, but it still works for me:






Although we are more frequently riding out here:









CR200111 said:


> What about the embarrassment from accidentally banging the jewels on the pommel? They saw it happen and giggled. Do you think they understand how much that hurts?


If they did that with me, I'd tear them a new butthole. Male or female - because gals have issues too - NO ONE should be amused at rider pain! Riding should be work but it also should be FUN!


----------



## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

CR200111 said:


> What about the embarrassment from accidentally banging the jewels on the pommel? They saw it happen and giggled. Do you think they understand how much that hurts?


Our group rides were mostly women and some teenage girls. One dad would ride regularly in our group as well and he would just roll his eyes at the laughing ladies when my friend would get tortured. And not all the the ladies would laugh. Some would cringe with us, out of sympathy, and keep our mouths shut. Another friend would regularly grab his junk and yank it up out in the open (over his jodhpurs, no nudity ofc), complaining loudly about it, which the audience loved. Or he'd yelp mid-canter and the horse would stumble to halt as fast as possible and then, no one laughed. After some giggles the ladies did their best to offer their advice and sympathies. It is embarrassing but there are so many stereotypes for both genders. Like how women "enjoy" things  And its 99% expected that beginner guys will bash things at first. If I were you I'd seriously consider paying for an hours private tuition to figure your comfort out or just go private until you're comfortable. Honestly, even a simple "please don't laugh at my discomfort" should be enough for them to get the point. It is a shame to even have to say it but not everyone was brought up to be polite.

I will say that while other riders would maybe chuckle inappropriately (when it was obvious the client was embarrassed) the instructors I've had have *always* approached this topic very professionally, no fuss. If your instructor makes you feel awkward, then I'd maybe consider having a private word or finding another.


----------



## CR200111 (Aug 14, 2021)

Kalraii said:


> Our group rides were mostly women and some teenage girls. One dad would ride regularly in our group as well and he would just roll his eyes at the laughing ladies when my friend would get tortured. And not all the the ladies would laugh. Some would cringe with us, out of sympathy, and keep our mouths shut. Another friend would regularly grab his junk and yank it up out in the open (over his jodhpurs, no nudity ofc), complaining loudly about it, which the audience loved. Or he'd yelp mid-canter and the horse would stumble to halt as fast as possible and then, no one laughed. After some giggles the ladies did their best to offer their advice and sympathies. It is embarrassing but there are so many stereotypes for both genders. Like how women "enjoy" things  And its 99% expected that beginner guys will bash things at first. If I were you I'd seriously consider paying for an hours private tuition to figure your comfort out or just go private until you're comfortable. Honestly, even a simple "please don't laugh at my discomfort" should be enough for them to get the point. It is a shame to even have to say it but not everyone was brought up to be polite.
> 
> I will say that while other riders would maybe chuckle inappropriately (when it was obvious the client was embarrassed) the instructors I've had have *always* approached this topic very professionally, no fuss. If your instructor makes you feel awkward, then I'd maybe consider having a private word or finding another.


Thank you, that makes me feel a lot better. Since the women are much older than me, I didn't know if they could related to that type of male specific injury. I don't mind the laughing, it's more I don't want to look less tough or manly.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Another thought:














They make them for English saddles too although I haven't tried the English version. Easy to put on (1-2 minutes) with my western saddle. Riding my leather slick saddle is like being a beer can in the bed of a pickup - when the truck turns or slows, the can goes all over. With the sheepskin (aka "*Butt Velcro*"), I don't slide around. And when I don't slide around, I get a BETTER feel for my horse's back and movement. My Abetta saddle is grippy enough without help, but my leather saddle is much easier to ride well with sheepskin!





















JMS Sheepskin Saddle Cushion/Cover- English Lolli-Pop | Riding Warehouse







www.ridingwarehouse.com









JMS Sheepskin Saddle Full Cover-English All Purpose - Riding Warehouse







www.ridingwarehouse.com




Good luck! I'd dearly like to see more men riding!


----------



## CR200111 (Aug 14, 2021)

bsms said:


> Another thought:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! This is super helpful. I like the look at that saddle too.


----------



## TrainedByMares (Jun 5, 2021)

Kalraii said:


> I have many questions but the burning one is.. zips?!!! 🤣
> [/QUOTE
> If you mean zippers... well I have slow hands but everything else is fast. Most of the time I comply with the Pennsylvania state dress code and wear button fly BDUs so zips aren't a factor.
> Anyhow, I included that information so the boy doesn't think his riding is dependent on his underwear. I read Xenophons book and nowhere did it mention underwear. Guys dont need it to ride.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I'd politely say "how rude" 🤔 but then I get it. My son has come home and headed straight for the ice pack on occasion.


----------



## CR200111 (Aug 14, 2021)

QtrBel said:


> I'd politely say "how rude" 🤔 but then I get it. My son has come home and headed straight for the ice pack on occasion.


So women generally understand the effects if you see us nail the pommel with our man parts? There were some giggles from the ladies


----------



## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

TrainedByMares said:


> If you mean zippers... well I have slow hands but everything else is fast. Most of the time I comply with the Pennsylvania state dress code and wear button fly BDUs so zips aren't a factor.
> Anyhow, I included that information so the boy doesn't think his riding is dependent on his underwear. I read Xenophons book and nowhere did it mention underwear. Guys dont need it to ride.


No that's actually exactly what I was referring to in context of riding specifically so thanks! I was away from my pc when I realised I should have been a bit cleared could have been taken the wrong way! But its why I asked because I wasn't sure what discipline as jeans seem to be very popular. Coz I'm in the UK I mostly only ever see people in jodhpurs and leggings so had to ask


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Well...those ancient Greeks were hard core 😨 and I'm sure my neighbors would object (as would various parts of my body):


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Well if we have any experience with the male of the species we do.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

bsms said:


> Well...those ancient Greeks were hard core 😨 and I'm sure my neighbors would object (as would various parts of my body):


Well, they must have done SOMETHING, because the mounted MALE conquered the world, for the most part..


----------



## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

If I remember from Xenophon, the Greeks favored cob-type horses, specifically those that had a divot down their back. In other words, they had soft flesh that made hills on either side of the spine, which was recessed. My Pony is exactly like this and he is super comfortable bareback. I think it would also be comfortable for men, especially with that divot in the spine -- your butt bones would be up on the soft part of the back and everything else would be sort of protected. At least, that's what I would imagine. 

Also I suspect that their horsemen must have had some sort of special undergarments that they just didn't tell us about.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I would think the divot would trap and act like nutcracker. Broad and flat would be better IMO but what do I know.


----------



## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

QtrBel said:


> I would think the divot would trap and act like nutcracker. Broad and flat would be better IMO but what do I know.


Yeah, hard for us to know exactly. I'm trying to visualize but without having those parts myself it's a little hard. Maybe one of the male members can confirm.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My horses have A frame backs. You couldn't pay me to ride them without a saddle! And I'm well past caring about having more kids...


----------

