# English vs Western



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

in the beginning, there is not that much difference . or, there shouldn't be.

if you like English, do that. It's a lot of fun!


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## InexcessiveThings (Oct 22, 2016)

As tinyliny said, just talking general (basic) riding, there isn't a whole lot different between the two. The basics are really the same. It's when you get into specific disciplines that you see definitive differences, since there are different tack and training requirements depending on what you want to do. So until you pick a discipline or two that you want to try, there's not much to say about it other than on the type of tack used. Generally I find that western saddles put a lot more between me and the horse, and I can feel my horse a lot better in a closer contact type of saddle like and australian or english. 

Many new riders may find a western saddle to feel more secure than an english one. There's more to them and they have a horn to grab if you need it starting out but a neck strap or pommel strap with an english saddle accomplishes the same thing. I wouldn't necessarily recommend one over the other for someone new. You can always switch to a different kind of tack or different discipline later, so go with whatever you are comfortable with and like better.


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## pennywise (Feb 1, 2016)

I started riding English because I wanted to jump but recently I've been interested in learning western stuff. Mentally I know that a lot of people feel more comfortable in a western saddle when they first start off because it feels more secure but an English saddle is equally as good for a beginner if you take time to learn about balancing yourself or even by getting a grab strap for the d-rings by the pommel in case of feeling like you're going to fly off. Other than that, the kind of stuff you would start off learning is basically the same if I'm not mistaken? The bigger differences between English and western would show up later in your training of either discipline. There's still walk, trot, canter/lope that you have to learn how to sit and that can take a while to get a hold of. I feel like flat work is pretty much the same.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

It's the rider's preference that matters; you can't really say that one is better than the other. *IMO*, Western is easier for the beginner/person-who-just-wants-to-sit-on-a-horse-for-a-while (ie not serious). 

I prefer Western just for the culture, kinda, but I would really like to try English sometime.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

I'd say English riding is more geared towards the requirements of hunting and cavalry, whereas Western riding is more adapted to the work involved in ranching. Whether you are cutting off a cow trying to escape or are dodging swords on the battlefield, both disciplines have developed their own "high art" of riding. I like the English style of tack as I have no need to suspend tools from my saddle while riding, but I like the Western attitude towards horsemanship as exemplified by, say, Buck Brannaman.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

mmshiro said:


> I'd say English riding is more geared towards the requirements of hunting and cavalry, whereas Western riding is more adapted to the work involved in ranching. Whether you are cutting off a cow trying to escape or are dodging swords on the battlefield, both disciplines have developed their own "high art" of riding. I like the English style of tack as I have no need to suspend tools from my saddle while riding, but I like the Western attitude towards horsemanship as exemplified by, say, Buck Brannaman.


...This...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I started english and switched to western. I think it would have been easier to switch from western to english though. (Western pleasure that is). going from english to western speed events would probably not be as difficult but english to reining, western pleasure, or even ranch riding I think was harder than had it been the other way around.....


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> in the beginning, there is not that much difference . or, there shouldn't be.
> 
> if you like English, do that. It's a lot of fun!


^^^ This is the heart of it. Basic horsemanship is basic horsemanship. 
For an English style foundation that will translate easily to other disciplines, go with basic dressage. 


Get on your hoss and ride!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> ^^^ This is the heart of it. Basic horsemanship is basic horsemanship.
> For an English style foundation that will translate easily to other disciplines, go with basic dressage...


I disagree. But then, I may be the only person on HF who sees a fundamental difference between the traditional English approach and traditional western. And no, it isn't the saddle.



> In a correctly executed turn or circle the horse’s inside hind leg carries more weight than the outside one. Before every turn or circle the rider should prepare the horse with a half halt and transfer his weight a little to the inside seat bone, in the direction of the movement.
> 
> The horse should then be flexed in the same direction. The inside rein should guide the horse into the turn, the rider’s inside leg, close to the girth, causing the horse’s inside hind leg to reach further forward. The outside rein should yield just enough to allow the horse to flex to the inside, while at the same time it restrains the horse from falling out over the outside shoulder. The outside leg should control the quarters.
> 
> ...


Notice that is NOT for "advanced dressage", but for "basic exercises". And it is all about controlling the horse, and bending the horse to the rider's will. It assumes a horse is unbalanced in a turn unless the rider 'holds the horse together', that "collection" is something a horse needs for balance, and that we riders actually DO things like "causing the horse’s inside hind leg to reach further forward".

Fundamental to English riding is using the reins and legs to shape the horse...because the horse doesn't know how to shape or balance himself.

Traditional western riding assumes the HORSE controls his body. Riders give direction, but the horse carries it out. Traditional western riding looks like this:








​ 







​
In English riding, riding with slack in the reins (on the buckle) is typical of beginners, while advanced riders ride with constant contact. In western riding, beginning riders use a lot of contact - until horse and rider learn to do without it.

I posted this picture of Mia & I going along a road some years back. Several very experienced English riders told me it was "dangerous" & that I had no control over my horse:








​ 
Yet that is very normal, traditional western riding. BY that time, even my spooky Arabian mare knew enough to keep herself (and me) out of the way of cars. With eyesight that extends nearly 360 degrees and superb hearing, she was better equipped to keep us safe than I was.

Dressage developed as a style of riding indoors. Traditional European riders didn't use it outside of the arena. This painting from 1650 of a Polish Cavalry officer has more in common with traditional western riding than dressage:








​ 
So my question for the OP is this: What sort of riding do you want to do? If you want to focus on arena riding, then you might as well start English. Modern western riding, done in an arena, looks more like traditional English than western!

If your goal is to ride outside, then start western - with an emphasis on getting out and riding trails. There is no reason to spend time trying to learn how to hold your horse together if your goal is riding places where you MUST trust your horse.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> ^^^ This is the heart of it. Basic horsemanship is basic horsemanship.
> For an English style foundation that will translate easily to other disciplines, go with basic dressage.
> 
> 
> Get on your hoss and ride!



Exactly, and I found my English foundation very useful when learning to ride Western. The important thing is to get in the Saddle and have fun, and REALLY get the basics nailed. So often people are in a rush to move on, but this voice of experience says you really do miss out if you don’t get some good instruction in the beginning.

I guess the thing is to ask yourself whT you really want to do with a horse? You want to jump, choose English, chase cans, Western. If you want to take to the hills and enjoy being out about on your horse, either, or both.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

bsms said:


> I disagree. But then, I may be the only person on HF who sees a fundamental difference between the traditional English approach and traditional western. And no, it isn't the saddle.
> 
> .


If you're talking about pleasure riding, hacking, trails/tracks and people who aren't remotely into dressage or jumping then you're wrong.
The typical British rider who takes a few lessons to learn enough to be safe in the saddle wouldn't know a 'half halt' if it hit them in the face. They also trust the horse to take care of its own body, Western riders possibly have more knowledge of using their legs to turn and bend the horse than the equivalent level of UK riders.
Contact is something both western and English horses need to understand - how short you have your reins is totally down to what you're doing with the horse
Advanced 'English riders, even those who do dressage at the highest level, still ride on a long loose rein when the situation allows for it
Charlotte Dujardin and Valegro out hacking across a field


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Quite honestly bsms, you really do not know what you are talking about when it comes to English riding. You seem to think that it is all about dressage and nothing else. 

_All my horses would go on the bridle - equally they would go on a loose rein at any pace. _

Top dressage riders take their horses out hacking and many take them where they can have a good gallop. 

A horse that has been _trained correctly, _whether for English or Western riding is a pleasure to ride. Aids applied correctly for each discipline get answered with the trained horse very important either way. 

When you have ridden a Grand Prix dressage horse and got it right it is like driving a powerful sports car, you have the balance and the power. 

My western riding is limited but I had absolutely no problems conveying what was wanted to the western horses I have ridden. My horses all neck reined too it is not something confined to western riding. 

Many years ago I rode a champion cutting horse, it surprised me at how he would turn and hold a cow with his eye as a collie does with sheep, I wish I had had someone to instruct me on the riding aspect. I know I was a hindrance, not a help! 

Looking back at the old books is interesting but times change as more is learned about the mechanics of the horse. Xenophon was doing dressage in 360 BC why? What was the point in having a horse using its hocks, balanced and obedient to leg and hand? Simple answer was to have better control of movement in battle. 

There are a darn site more English riders hacking out enjoying the tracks and trails than ever there are doing dressage. In fact, I would take total novice riders out on the trails before anything else, it relaxed them, got them use to the movement of the horse without having to worry about corners et al. 

For any rider to criticise another for their style of riding Western or English, is just unappreciative of the skills needed for each.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I wish I could like your post more than once @Foxhunter. I have probably spent more time toodling around on a loose rein when riding English than I have in contact......when you get to specialize in any discipline you learn a whole bunch of new stuff, but hitting the trails it easy to adapt.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

When you get the two disciplines riding against each other it is, for me anyway, interesting to see the difference in the way each horse goes especially when they change steeds. Neither horse performs as well as it did for its normal rider! Western riders would say the English horse went better for the western rider and vice versa yet even with my very basic knowledge of Western riding, I can see that neither horse is going as well.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Well many people here know way more about the disciplines. I like to think of dressage as the horse giving FULL control to the rider and I guess stuff like ranch work gives the horse more autonomy. I imagine it would be pretty hard to "manually" control a dressage horse to cut a cow lol as you'd have to be super human to convey every tiny movement LOL. "put your leg there, move this hoof there, lean left but look right, get. on. the. vertical! ...." (I got no idea what I'm going on about). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong as I've never done western. But that's how I see. Both are awesome and I am thoroughly looking forward to my first western lesson next month <3 I always hear about how the western saddle is more secure and I'm waiting to experience that myself. I can't say I have ever felt in/un-secure riding English except with a loose girth haha!

OP, why not learn both? But, initially just pick one and stick to it for a bit otherwise you might slow down your progress. There's a lot to remember and a lot of body control needs to be learned that transfers between both styles at a basic level. I am so excited for you as those first rides are so precious! Enjoy 

EDIT: ok I want to see someone cut a cow dressage style now.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Lol @kalraii watch this






A good cowhorse is bred not trained....well like a collie it is in their blood.

You are right in your thoughts, but again, although Fergie is a Dressage horse, she can also go on a loose rein and make her own decisions...heck sometimes we ride without them just for the hell of it. 

But again, the OP is talking about starting, and the best advice is get yourself into a lesson program, if you are lucky enough to have English and Western trainers around, try both, see which one calls to you.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

A friend sent me her dressage horse as he was in need of a change. She always hacked him out and he wasn't wrapped in cotton woo. I took him Fox Hunting, of that doesn't freshen up a horse I don't know what will! 

He had done a few poles and low grid work but never really jumped. I had my niece on a lead rein. We were near the back of the Field in an area I didn't know very well. Cantering fairly fast along through a forestry track we rounded a corner to meet a fence about 3'9" high, it was also on rising ground. My niece said, "Aunty, can Sponsor jump that?" 
My replynwas "Yes, he can, don't know about Rosco though!" 

We sailed it and every other fence we came to. His dressage training stood him in good stead, having his hocks under him enabled him to power out of mud and over.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

@*Kalraii* watch the documentary Buck about 50 minutes in.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Those videos are priceless! Especially the dressage horses and riders trying to wrangle cattle!


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## findinghappy (Feb 24, 2018)

I like a lot of what everyone is saying, and even if you disagree with his post, even bsms had some good points in his. 

I think the most important thing to the OP is to try both disciplines, especially English as that is what they've said they were the most interested in. Be willing to experiment, be open minded, and go have fun!!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I've ridden English my whole riding life. Saying advanced riders don't use a loose rein is completely incorrect. Not sure where some people get these ideas; certainly not from real life.


I used to show Saddleseat and English Pleasure, but switched to trail riding years ago. My horse preferred it and I wasn't a ribbon chaser anyway, and my goal was for both of us to have fun.


I tried riding Western and didn't care for it. Too much between me and the horse, and I couldn't feel the animal underneath me. That made me nervous, because for 35+ years I could feel the slightest shift of the horse's body, and riding in a Western saddle made me feel like half my riding senses were missing.


English and Western have many different disciplines, and neither is 'better' than the other. It's all based on your own preferences and what you personally want from your riding goals.


A good rider is a good rider, regardless of discipline. Reading books on riding is a good start, but not having actual instructors and experienced horse people to help you during your journey is not a good way to become a well rounded, correct rider. After all, the _horse_ is supposed to be having fun too, as this is meant to be a partnership.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> English and Western have many different disciplines, and neither is 'better' than the other. It's all based on your own preferences and what you personally want from your riding goals.
> 
> 
> A good rider is a good rider, regardless of discipline. Reading books on riding is a good start, but not having actual instructors and experienced horse people to help you during your journey is not a good way to become a well rounded, correct rider. After all, the _horse_ is supposed to be having fun too, as this is meant to be a partnership.


Yes and Yes, and yes again!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

The OP asks which he should try first; which is best for beginners. To me, in the beginning, there is little difference, and as an introduction to horses, both will be wonderful. That is not me saying that there is no difference between the two disciplines. We all know there are. But, the answer should be tailored to the questioner, and the circumstances. right?


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

@tinyliny is trying to get us back on track to answering the OP's original question. I stand by my agreement with her original comment, that for the purposes of a beginner, english or western does not matter, so long as the person gets into the saddle with some good instruction. 


I'll try to explain my endorsement of dressage coming from an old fart with a western background, and never having had a lesson myself. I can trace it back to an article in the Western Horseman magazine in the early 1970's. It mostly just described the basic concepts for a primarily western audience. The bulk of the article went way over my head. But, I understood and applied a couple of points it made to my own riding. 


Up to that point, I rode like a sack of potatoes. I've seen super 8 home movies of it. What I took from that article, was not how the rider controls the horse, but how the posture, position, and movement of the rider helps the horse to do what it already knows how to do. I think that is a key element to understand before a rider begins to attempt to control the fine points of a horse's movements. 


That article on dressage, and my application of what little I understood from it, made the difference between a bumpkin who could ride out various horsey shenanigans, and a rider who was winning championships in 4-H western pleasure.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> [MENTION=11454] What I took from that article, was not how the rider controls the horse, but how the posture, position, and movement of the rider helps the horse to do what it already knows how to do. I think that is a key element to understand before a rider begins to attempt to control the fine points of a horse's movements.


That is a very astute point! 
I took some time to learn some new training/riding techniques from a bridle horse trainer a few years back and he essentially pointed out the same thing.

A horse seeks balance, his feet are his main defense against danger. A horse who is being asked to be off balance is a nervous horse....a horse whose rider allows a horse to remain balanced (AKA does not pull his horse off balance because of his own positioning) will have a much more relaxed horse, a much more willing partner and horse who can learn quickly because the concern of being able to get away quickly from danger (feeling vulnerable) is not in the forefront of his mind.

It goes to the concept of "setting your horse up to succeed" that the western trainer Tom Dorrance spoke of.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

To the OP, I'd start with what you'd like. Both Western and English have their merits. If you're wanting to pursue riding in English, start there. Only thing I tend to discourage is starting to learn to ride doing bareback first :lol: it's easier in a saddle for an unbalanced rider!

Some very interesting conversation in here... @Foxhunter, I wish I could love your post a thousand times.

I love reading books. It's a great place to start, and it's great for additional knowledge. But finding a good instructor when you're learning how to ride is paramount! I've ridden since I was 14. I'll be 31 this year. I rely on a trainer to help advance us, or help us when I get stuck. Never going to tell someone to put down a book, but having someone with eyes on you while you work is SO helpful, particularly when you're starting!

I mainly ride Dressage, though I do a lot of other things. I take my mare (who others would wrap in bubble wrap since she's a champion) trail riding in some intense trails. She gets a long rein so she's confident in finding the best path. I trust her, and she trusts me. I ride on contact, but last night would have been a prime example of how a Dressage rider actually rides. I'm just bringing my girl back into work, so our rides are short. I had her in contact, but I rode entirely off of my seat and legs (abs and legs killed me when I got off haha).

I get so blasted tired of being told my discipline only ever rides on contact. I actually dropped my reins last night, while I was trotting, put my arms straight out to the side, and she kept trotting in the balance she was in. I asked for a walk with my seat (arms still outstretched) and she walked. Then halted when I asked. It gets old when people constantly bring up outdated material, and make our sport appear as though we are heavy abusers who never allow our horses to have a loose rein.

Example of hacking my mare out on property. Loose rein, and stopped off my seat.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

To the OP...strictly my personal opinion...
What discipline seems the most interesting to you? Start with that style tack..
If you don't have an opinion yet, I'd start with western simply because there may be a bit more security in a western style saddle until you develop balance and some skills.
The main thing is to advance in ability and have fun!!!!!


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## QueenofFrance08 (May 16, 2017)

Why not try both and see what you think? I took English lessons as a kid (hunter/jumper) and loved it but I went to camp every year and rode western there. I much preferred an English saddle but of course the camp horse saddles weren't necessarily the most comfortable or in the best condition.

Now? We have our own horses and I have 2 English, 2 Western, 1 Australian, and 1 Endurance Saddle. I ride different styles depending on what I feel like lifting, trying, the horse I'm riding, etc. (Ok yes I probably am a tack hoarder) My favorite saddle is probably my endurance saddle because it's a cross between western and english. It has more security like a western but no horn (which I'm not a huge fan of because I always seem to get caught on it especially in the winter when I have a million layers on). My main horse is a 4 year old green broke mare so I like having the extra security. However my husband and I like to go to Cutting practice at our farrier's house and then I happily bring my western saddle. When I take DH's chubby paint mare out on the trails I love riding her English. 

So I say try both! See what you like and know you don't have to pick one or the other!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Dustbunny said:


> If you don't have an opinion yet, I'd start with western simply because there may be a bit more security in a western style saddle until you develop balance and some skills.
> The main thing is to advance in ability and have fun!!!!!


Lol, on the other hand if you learn to balance on a postage stamp, then Western feels even more securec


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

“Dressage developed as a style of riding indoors.”

Is there an article or book that discusses this theory? I would like to read it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The video of the big WB trying to work cattle is more of an example of 'horses for courses' than one of an 'English trained horse making a poor job of what's typically western - I wouldn't expect that horse to win any prizes in Prince Philip Cup gymkhana events either!!
On the other hand you could take a horse like this one that's competing in one of the increasingly popular Working Equitation Classes and train it to work cattle or do a dressage test and I'm sure it could cope well with either even if it wasn't born with 'cow sense'


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

@jaydee

I don't know if you knew this or not, but just to mention it. Working Equitation horses at high levels are required to be able to not only navigate the obstacle course but also work cattle AND do dressage tests! It's kind of like a different style of eventing. They have to be good (or at least decent) at three different things.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

horseluvr2524 said:


> @*jaydee*
> 
> I don't know if you knew this or not, but just to mention it. Working Equitation horses at high levels are required to be able to not only navigate the obstacle course but also work cattle AND do dressage tests! It's kind of like a different style of eventing. They have to be good (or at least decent) at three different things.


 
Yes I did know but thanks for pointing it out here because its really worth mentioning. 
I just didn't know if this particular horse had ever done anything like that so left it out


Its starting to catch on in the UK now.
http://www.workingequitation-gb.com/about-we.html


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

horseluvr2524 said:


> @*jaydee*
> I don't know if you knew this or not, but just to mention it. Working Equitation horses at high levels are required to be able to not only navigate the obstacle course but also work cattle AND do dressage tests! It's kind of like a different style of eventing. They have to be good (or at least decent) at three different things.





jaydee said:


> Yes I did know but thanks for pointing it out here because its really worth mentioning.
> I just didn't know if this particular horse had ever done anything like that so left it out
> 
> Its starting to catch on in the UK now.
> About WE


This is called versatility isn't it.... :tongue:
_I happen to love the idea..._

To me, that _*versatility*_ just gave that horse a better chance of life if something happened that made it not able to do one type of riding it now has other disciplines known to fall back on....
A "usable" horse is one _someone_ will take interest in not just throw away as garbage.. :frown_color:
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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