# Two-Year-Old & Groundwork



## ThatRoanHorse (Mar 2, 2017)

Apparently nobody will offer advice.

The fill has gotten better but still doesn't come down own from a trot easily. We're working on it.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

If I had seen it I would of offered the advice, SLOW THE HECK DOWN.

Are you proficient in lunging, sorry I don't know you so have to ask, if not, practice on a trained horse first, do not be trying to teach a baby.

Before lunging, they should be able to walk, trot, halt next to you in straight lines, or being led round in a circle, once you have that then you can use voice commands together with manipulating the line to control speed. 

I WOULD NOT be loping a 2 year old on a lunge line, it is very hard work, and it's easy to damage one.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

I sometimes have to pull on my two-year-old's head as well when lunging to turn her, although I've never actually lunged her at a lope before. My filly though will slow down as soon as you get close to being in her way. Would your filly possibly run into you before slowing down, or are you confident that she'd stop? If you are, then you might have to step almost in front of her, so that you're actually chasing her to change direction.
How big is your round pen/circle that you lunge her in? If it's too small it could damage her joints, but otherwise, I don't see a problem with loping.
I'd recommend watching a Clinton Anderson video on lunging. They're very helpful; I used to have problems lunging my mare as well, but CA's videos helped me a lot!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I agree that you should have some experience lunging a well trained horse before working on the baby.

I would stop a hrose on a lunge line that is going too fast by giving a big shake, back and forth on the lungeline, so that it rattles up under their jaw a bit. However, you have to train a hrose to know what that means, by doing it first on a lead line.

If I am leading a horse, and they want to speed up too fast, I give the line a good sharp wiggle. this will startle them a bit, and yes, they will raise their head a bit, but, it's mainly for getting their attention, then you say "Whoa " and use a bit of a backward pull on the line to teach them to slow, or even back up. The sharp wiggle is only because they ran through your request to slow down made by voice, and how you position your body, and by putting a bit of backward feel on the line.

Once they know that a sharp wiggle on the line means "Hey! smarten up and pay attention!" you can break them out of a run, get them to stop and give you some attention, when you can then gently shorten the line and ask them to slow to a walk or trot.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

First, does she have turn out, room to play, BEFORe you lunge her?
Lunging should be work, where a horse goes as asked, but not very fair to expect a two year old that has been stalled, to just then settle down to work mode.
Why do you want to teach her to lunge?
It has it's [place, as part of the under saddle training, bitting a hrose up, ect, but just to work a young hrose in circles, for no reason, is not really a good idea, and hard on those young joints


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Are you wanting to do lunging or groundwork, because there is a definite difference. If groundwork, then sit down and watch some videos of Chris Cox, Warwick Schiller, Buck Branaman, etc. and learn to do it properly, because you can really screw up a horse if you do it incorrectly or if they think it simply means you chase them around in a circle. If you're doing lunging, then work on it with a trained horse, and start at the walk. Only when the horse will go around softly at the walk and stop easily when asked do you ask for the trot. It may take quite some time before you are ready to canter, and if you have to chase the horse into it and then can't get them easily back down, the horse isn't nearly ready for the canter. I wouldn't be cantering a 2 y.o. on the lunge anyway, but that's a whole 'nuther ball of wax.


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## ThatRoanHorse (Mar 2, 2017)

She is good on groundwork. Better than Duncan, anyway. She stops when I ask, can walk calmly beside me, and can mostly trot beside me. It's just as soon as I step away from her, she goes into 'race mode'. She does have time out with four other yearlings on a daily basis. She can walk and stop on the lunge line, but as soon as I ask for a trot she won't stop until I pull her head in. If I stepped in front of her I think she would stop, especially because If I pull her head towards me she slams on the brakes and gives me two eyes, like, "What? Was I doing something wrong?"

I think that it is the way the BO trains the young horses. The other day he had a couple of 5-month-olds on the lunge line because they don't go outside. He was trying to teach them but one of them just kept backing away from him and was being rather mean to it... Mostly the reason I want to get this filly good on the line, because the way she acts would make the BO really work her over.

I don't think the BO is necessarily a bad trainer, he just has a different way of doing things. He also has a good reputation in the community and has horses that have won big awards at AQHA/AQHYA Congress. He also doesn't fine tune the horses. As long as they can ride slow and steady with their heads down he calls them good. I mean, it could be something that I'm missing, but the other day he was riding a stallion with it's head to its chest in tiny circles. That bothered me a bit and, for a stallion, he was being pretty good.

I can lunge a horse, although I've never had any different techniques or experience levels to compare myself against. All of the horses at the barn are trained the same way, and it isn't he best way, but I can't do anything about the other horses... Only the ones I have permission to work with, which is Duncan and this filly (her name is Alma).


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Sounds like she doesn't know how to lunge properly. You are going to have to teach her what "whoa" means. 

Keep her at a walk until you can tell her "whoa" with slack on the line and she stops. So that means keeping the circle small so you can control her speed. Teach her how to move her feet, how to change direction, yield hindquarters, move shoulders, etc. THE BASICS! Sounds like she does not know how to do any of that.

If you allow her to go too fast too soon, you'll just have the same scenerio happen again above. 

When she's solid at the walk, then you can let her trot. When she's solid there, then you can let her lope.

And probably don't take any lessons from your BO. Try to take lessons elsewhere if possible. I don't like what you are describing.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

ThatRoanHorse said:


> She is good on groundwork. Better than Duncan, anyway. She stops when I ask, can walk calmly beside me, and can mostly trot beside me. It's just as soon as I step away from her, she goes into 'race mode'.


That's not groundwork, and if you step away and she goes into 'race mode', her groundwork isn't NEARLY where it should be. 

You need some lessons from someone who knows how to train horses properly, not your BO who seems to know only how to cow them into submission and call that training. No wonder the horses you're working with both have issues... Good grief.

Warwick Schiller has some videos on YouTube, but if you have $30, subscribe to his website videos for a month and watch the groundwork videos. If your horse can do those well, you will see a lot of your under saddle and handling issues disappear.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

No turn out for 5 month old horses, just putting them on the lunge line?????
Sorry, but that guy is not a good horse person, and I don't care how many awards he has won.
I'd be more interested as to how many of his horses enjoy longevity of soundness, as that program for young growing horses= future soundness issues!
The confining of young growing horses, when they should be outside, developing a strong skeletal system and good hoof development, drives me crazy !
I would be surprised if prophylactic joint injections is not a part of his program.
Not even going to bother commenting on ground work, as Silver Maple already has done that!


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## ThatRoanHorse (Mar 2, 2017)

Clarification: No turnout that I have seen, ever. I'm not there every single day, nor all day, but I do go out quite a bit and have never seen them out.

Also, they're crammed into 10 x 10 stalls, two to a stall (except for the lucky odd one out of the five). I don't want to hurt his business, but It's been bothering me for a long time and I feel like I should tell someone. I've never liked the way he treats his horses... He has a 20-something year-old Morgan mare who looks like she's going to turn to bones (and gets picked on by the other horses at turnout), but he still puts small kids on her because she's a 'reliable horse', even though she has no speed control. I just heard that one of my friends got dumped by one of his horses, too. I love Duncan (who, by the way, we think had a stroke) and the other horses, but not the actual place. I have to go, but I'll post this and respond to everyone later.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Young growing horses absolutely need full time turn out as possible, although, if they are being shown in yearling lunge line, ect, they do need some stall time, regular handling, learning to accept being bathed,clipped . ect
Thus, for a young horse being shown, part time stall is okay, but not full time
Also, when they are worked, it should be in a straight line as much as possible, thus being ponied, not lunged. Teach them to lunge, if they are being shown, as that is the only way you can warm up ahrose at a show, besides under saddle.
That does not mean you lock them in a stall, and use lunging as their only form of exercise
If those babies are not being shown, turn them out and let them be horses, until it is time to start them under saddle


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Authorities won't do anything for the youngsters as long as they're being fed and have shelter. There's no rule on turnout, so there's not much you can do there.

As for the Morgan, if she's not being fed or cared for properly, you may have some cause there if she's visibly thin.

I'd get out of this place, honestly, and find somewhere else to lease a horse/ride.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

ThatRoanHorse said:


> I don't want to hurt his business, but It's been bothering me for a long time and I feel like I should tell someone. I've never liked the way he treats his horses...


From the tidbits you've dropped here and there throughout your threads about your BO, I've never liked him from the start. 

I'd say when you have the chance, get yourself out of there. There are trainers out there that do whatever it takes to get ribbons, much to the detriment of the horse. And there are those who are class acts and care more about the horse, and the ribbons come anyway. Find yourself a class act instead!


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