# Derby Winner Slaughtered



## Supermane

Today in the mail I receive this petition. I was happy to see it, I would absolutely love it if this act was passed. However I was upset to hear about poor Ferdinand. I've typed out most of the letter for you guys to read if you wish, since it explains a lot better than me.

"Dear Fellow Horse Lovers,

... Please sign and return the enclosed petition to Senate majority Leader Harry Reid requesting him to hold an immediate vote on S.311, "The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act."

The good news is this legislation, introduced by Senators Mary Landrieu (D-LA) and John Ensign (R-NV), has 38 co-sponsors and strong bipartisan support.

but S.311 is stalled in committee because the infamous Senator Larry Craig of Idaho has a "hold" on this bill preventing it from coming to a vote.

Your help is urgently needed because last year horse welfare groups were successful in shutting down-- at least for now-- the three remaining horse slaughter plants operating in the United States.

Also last year, the House of Representatives passed a bill by a wide margin to outlaw horse slaughter, including the shipment of horses to foreign countries like Mexico and Canada for slaughter

But this didn't matter when the Senate version failed. Senator Larry Craig has S.311, which would have banned horse slaughter, removed from the Omnibus Appropriations Bill.

And now all of our horses are still being shipped to Mexico and Canada for slaughter.

How did this happen?

Because of pressure from livestock lobbyists, and from many powerful pro-slaughter horse organizations like the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA), a member of the "Unwanted Horse Coalition," whose membership consists of a majority of these pro-slaughter groups.

... According to the US Dept of Agriculture, over 92% of horses slaughtered are actually in "good condition."

That's perhaps the greatest tragedy and misunderstanding regarding horse slaughter. The majority are not old or lame horses going to slaughter: pregnant mares, Premarin foals, wild horses, polo ponies, recreations horses, and even one Kentucky Derby winner's life ended at a slaughterhouse.

Front Range Equine Rescue is determined to see the elimination of a horse slaughter and its literally working in the trenches to do so. I urge you to help us by contacting you two US Senators directly are (202) 224-2121, or you can visit our website to sign online petition."

Here is the Derby Winner that was killed in a slaughterhouse:

http://www.championsgallery.com/Ferdinand.jpg
^picture of him racing

ESPN - From Derby winner to a slaughterhouse? - Horse Racing


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## iridehorses

What happened to those horses is horrible and the methods used as well as their treatment on the way is just as bad if not criminal. But is it any worse a fate then all the horses that are left to starve to death in their own filth by "caring" owners who don't know better or just lost interest? 

What do we do with all the horses that are bred by morons who happen to have a stud and are totally irresponsible about breeding them. Those horses end up at sale barns selling for $50 or less. What does that do to the entire horse economy? We are overstocked with useless horses that no one wants and yet there are people out there still breeding them. What do we do with them? 

The word "slaughter" conjures awful images and most may be correct but there needs to be a way to limit the production of horses so that "slaughter" is not an alternative to overpopulation and neglect.


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## Supermane

I'm definitely for euthanasia rather than slaughter. Americans have such a phobia of actually getting it done, but it's much more humane thing to do.


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## Rachluvshorses4eva

Supermane said:


> I'm definitely for euthanasia rather than slaughter.



I kinda gotta agree with you there. Me too


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## califcowgirl

Supermane said:


> Today in the mail I receive this petition. I was happy to see it, I would absolutely love it if this act was passed. However I was upset to hear about poor Ferdinand. I've typed out most of the letter for you guys to read if you wish, since it explains a lot better than me.
> 
> "Dear Fellow Horse Lovers,
> 
> ... Please sign and return the enclosed petition to Senate majority Leader Harry Reid requesting him to hold an immediate vote on S.311, "The American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act."
> 
> The good news is this legislation, introduced by Senators Mary Landrieu (D-LA) and John Ensign (R-NV), has 38 co-sponsors and strong bipartisan support.
> 
> but S.311 is stalled in committee because the infamous Senator Larry Craig of Idaho has a "hold" on this bill preventing it from coming to a vote.
> 
> Your help is urgently needed because last year horse welfare groups were successful in shutting down-- at least for now-- the three remaining horse slaughter plants operating in the United States.
> 
> Also last year, the House of Representatives passed a bill by a wide margin to outlaw horse slaughter, including the shipment of horses to foreign countries like Mexico and Canada for slaughter
> 
> But this didn't matter when the Senate version failed. Senator Larry Craig has S.311, which would have banned horse slaughter, removed from the Omnibus Appropriations Bill.
> 
> And now all of our horses are still being shipped to Mexico and Canada for slaughter.
> 
> How did this happen?
> 
> Because of pressure from livestock lobbyists, and from many powerful pro-slaughter horse organizations like the American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA), a member of the "Unwanted Horse Coalition," whose membership consists of a majority of these pro-slaughter groups.
> 
> ... According to the US Dept of Agriculture, over 92% of horses slaughtered are actually in "good condition."
> 
> That's perhaps the greatest tragedy and misunderstanding regarding horse slaughter. The majority are not old or lame horses going to slaughter: pregnant mares, Premarin foals, wild horses, polo ponies, recreations horses, and even one Kentucky Derby winner's life ended at a slaughterhouse.
> 
> Front Range Equine Rescue is determined to see the elimination of a horse slaughter and its literally working in the trenches to do so. I urge you to help us by contacting you two US Senators directly are (202) 224-2121, or you can visit our website to sign online petition."
> 
> Here is the Derby Winner that was killed in a slaughterhouse:
> 
> http://www.championsgallery.com/Ferdinand.jpg
> ^picture of him racing
> 
> ESPN - From Derby winner to a slaughterhouse? - Horse Racing


Is this the bill that would also prosecute the owners of horses if the owner is aware that whoever they are selling the horse to might send it to slaughter?


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## iridehorses

Supermane said:


> I'm definitely for euthanasia rather than slaughter. Americans have such a phobia of actually getting it done, but it's much more humane thing to do.


True, but euthanasia cost between $250 and $500. Taking a horse to an auction gets you about $75. An owner who can't care for his horse, certainly can't afford the cost so what do you do for them?


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## travlingypsy

Im pro-slaughter, I will always have my pets and other animals well being at heart. But the horses that end up there are sent there for a reason, may it be poor breeding,lame,crazy,dangerous,someone who cant care for it or cant find it a better home. I think the waiting and care for the horses is awfull, but spending 48 hours in a over crouded muddy padock vrs a lifetime of neglect and starvation. Id rather see the suffering end not everyone can rescue each horse. Since the market took a dive our WA rescues expect to see more horses this year then ever before. How are they going to care for ALL those horses? They cant live off of donations forever... 

I agree that they should not be shipped out of the U.S and that they should change the way the are "putting the horses down". I know they now use a metal rod that is shot out by compressed air and pulls back in its barrel, they use it for cows. It saves on bullets, its fast, and efficiant.


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## juju

that is insane that a derby winner was slaughtered - some little kid would have taken him!!!!


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## Abby

The problem most people have is the fact that they are called slaughter houses. When you hear slaughter you think, chopping bloody nasty gross. 

One definition of slaughter is: _to kill in a brutal or violent manner.

_That doesn't sound very nice. Horses are never really "slaughtered" that badly though. It's not the most humane thing to do but its not brutal or violent, nailing a horse in the head with a rod to make it unconscious is not always the best method, they sometimes don't always knock them out the first try making it incredibly mean for that, but the next step is bleeding them out. The horses don't feel any of the pain once they are knocked, and bleeding them out enough to kill them is done VERY quickly by severing the jugular vein and corroded artery, which is what they do. It is horrible to think of. 

Euthanasia should be what they do, they should be called something like Equine Population Control Center.

Its not like the horses are starved or without water the men get paid by the pound, if those horses lose weight, they lose money, but they aren't treated very well, they are banged around and thrown here and throw there.

I'm not saying they are good, but unfortunately, owners that cant afford to keep their horses anylonger and have made poor choices, make the horse suffer. If they don't have a place to put them all because they are sick, injured, or untrained for whatever reason, when they don't sell they end up starving them or abandoning them if they have high numbers because they panic.

It's almost like, your damned if you do and damned if you don't!


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## Deb

Abby said:


> The problem most people have is the fact that they are called slaughter houses. When you hear slaughter you think, chopping bloody nasty gross.
> 
> One definition of slaughter is: _to kill in a brutal or violent manner.
> 
> _That doesn't sound very nice. Horses are never really "slaughtered" that badly though. It's not the most humane thing to do but its not brutal or violent, nailing a horse in the head with a rod to make it unconscious is not always the best method, they sometimes don't always knock them out the first try making it incredibly mean for that, but the next step is bleeding them out. The horses don't feel any of the pain once they are knocked, and bleeding them out enough to kill them is done VERY quickly by severing the jugular vein and corroded artery, which is what they do. It is horrible to think of.
> 
> Euthanasia should be what they do, they should be called something like Equine Population Control Center.
> 
> Its not like the horses are starved or without water the men get paid by the pound, if those horses lose weight, they lose money, but they aren't treated very well, they are banged around and thrown here and throw there.
> 
> I'm not saying they are good, but unfortunately, owners that cant afford to keep their horses anylonger and have made poor choices, make the horse suffer. If they don't have a place to put them all because they are sick, injured, or untrained for whatever reason, when they don't sell they end up starving them or abandoning them if they have high numbers because they panic.
> 
> It's almost like, your damned if you do and damned if you don't!


People are very naive if they think it is not violent or brutal. And shippers do not stop to offload animals for food and water. Time is money. Horses arrive at the slaughterhouse in a weakened and sometimes injured state, some unable to walk off on their own. The internet is amazing in it's content. For example there is this video about horse slaughter.






As far as euthenizing with a shot, I've seen it down to a horse that severely colicked. It was quick, taking only moments, and it was peaceful. I had my little dog euthenized in January. The worst part was the vet putting the needle in her little leg, then less then a minute later, she sighed and was gone. Anyone who tells you it takes an hour and is painful because it is a potent "poison" is full of baloney.


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## smrobs

I will probably be booo'd for this but I believe that slaughter in america served a purpose. There are some horses (of all ages and breeds) that are lame or too dangerous and cannot be used for anything. If they were to bring it back, I think that it should be monitored by peta or the aspca to ensure that the animals are dispatched quickly and without pain. Euthanasia done by a qualified vet would be adequate. If there were more of these types of slaughter houses operating in the US, we would not have to ship horses to canada and mexico to be slaughtered in the way that you see above in the video. (That did make me cry by the way). There should be enough of the companies scattered across the country that the horses would not have to be transported more than 3 or 4 hours and the transports should be monitored as well to prevent overcrowding and inhumane treatment by the transporters. But that is just my opinion.


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## HrsGrl323

Slaughter may have its place in the US but there should be strict rules. Ive done papers for school on slaugher and there is a book written by a man who worked in the industry reveling such things as cutting foals out of the mother and throwing them off to the side wether dead or alive, I dont think anyone can say that that is not cruel.


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## DarkChylde

They have strict rules in place, but people don't follow them, it isn't like it is really monitored. WHen proof of abuse is provided, it is just slid under the rug, maybe a slap on the wrist.

There really isn't any way to make assembly-line slaughter humane. Best to just outlaw it altogether and deal with the border problem once we have the legislation in place to make SURE there is a federal ban against it.


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## iridehorses

DarkChylde said:


> Best to just outlaw it altogether and deal with the border problem once we have the legislation in place to make SURE there is a federal ban against it.


 But have you been to an auction lately? The last one I went to was a week ago. Too many horses were severely underweight and selling between $10 and $50. Good solid horses were selling under $100. The high selling horse of the night went for $700. He was as broke a 7 year old horse as you will ever find with great breeding along the Doc Bar line. His owner claimed that two years ago he gave $3,500 for him at a registered breed sale - I follow auctions and believe his claim.

People can't afford to keep horses, morons keep breeding them, and we have no outlet for them. Better to let them die a slow death starving in a dirt field and prosecute the owners? It's going to get much worse in the next few years with rising unemployment and foreclosures coupled with the drought in most of the country, giving us abandoned or neglected and starving horses.

I don't claim to know the answer nor do I advocate either way on the subject but there needs to be middle ground and an end to continued inferior breeding of these unwanted horses.
A slow death or a quick one - even if it is somewhat cruel for one or two days.


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## DarkChylde

Quick or slow these horses don't pop outta out the ground like dew on the daisies, and we ain't talking about an animal that runs wild like dogs and cats (except in some areas of the country, and they are under govt. regulation supposedly, tho I don't like what has been goin on there either)

The price of horses right now has ALOT to do with the drought, price of corn and hay, oil prices, the crashing of the economy- far more than legislation that hasn't passed yet.

Overbreeding IS the problem, and those horses standing in dry lots and starving won't be saved by slaughter anyhow (if you can call the transport horrors and slaughter 'saving') cuz the fact is they don't WANT starving, skinny horses to take to slaughter, they take fat, healthy horses. Even when slaughterhouses were plentiful and operational, even by THEIR statistics only like 10%to 12% of the horses slaughtered were underweight, skinny horses. SLaughter has NEVER helped them, the industry has hidden behind them to justify their greed.


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## iridehorses

I used to live in PA and went to the New Holland Auction regularly. When it was permissible, horses were selling to the killers for $.75 per lb (never announced but these guys could really estimate) we didn't see skinny horses like we do today. If an owner wanted the best price for his horse he got it to the auction fatter then we see today.

Today, the weight doesn't matter, horses are selling for pennies per pound and there are way too many of them. 

What's the answer? Education, common sense, regulation? Even if that would work - and you need to laugh if you think it would - it would take too much time and these horses are suffering for it. It takes all of that but it isn't going to happen.


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## DarkChylde

Neglect of horses has been around far longer than any leglislation about slaughter, that cannot be blamed for horses suffereing, heartless humans are to blame for that. No amount of laws will change the fact that horses suffer.

And WHY are there so many? THAT is the ISSUE! Not slaughter! Breed snobs are the problem, people who want a horse cuz it makes them look rich or preppy or whatever is the problem, and the BIG money in horses is the problem!

I don't care about the 'industry' as much as I care about horses. There is no answers rite now, but if we outlaw horse slaughter for human consumption then we CAN build a better tomarrow for horses, tho the money mite not be there like it once was. We can't help the ones that are alive cuz some careless, greedy, reckless human bred them with no concern for their future, but if we nix their abilities to make profit from breeding horses for food then we will stop the REAL problem, which is overbreeding.


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## RockinGR

Slaughter is a neccessary evil, for the reasons that other posters have already stated--over breeding, bad eggs, rising costs, droughth, etc. Euthanizing them is not going to be an option folks. It is cost prohibitive as mentioned, but not said was that the horse meat that was a product of the slaughter houses was sold to Europe and Asia. Meat from a euthanized animal is not edible. Therefore, what would be done with all the carcasses of the euthanized horses? Incineration:more cost + pollution. Mass burial:more cost + where?+ ground contamination.
Reality is not pretty. But slaughter should be reinstated and better regulated. There is just not enough people to take on the burden. And it's not going to get any better.


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## upnover

I couldn't agree with you more IRidehorses... there has GOT to be a place for horses to go because at the auctions around here you can't even give horses away. The broke ones are still going for a typical price, hasn't bottomed out too much here. The unbroke ones? The untouched 3 year olds? The conformationally scary inbred ones? Yeah, NO one wants them! Last year that was the majority of the unwanted horses around here. They weren't the skinny starved horses, or the ex-school horses that someone loved it's entire life... they weren't even the culls from the breed snobs that someone else mentioned. They're the conformationally hideous untrained barely halter broken 2 or 3 year olds that some idiot thought would be great to breed 30 of, not realizing how expensive it would be to feed them all. Oops, no hay for the winter, guess I'll try to Craiglist them for $100 before taking them to the auction. sigh. I haven't been to an auction in several months but I have a feeling that those horses are now the skinny ones people are talking about....

Slaughter's not pretty. I'd love to save a bunch (not going to lie, I wouldn't take them all home. I like my horses to be sane and built to be sound). But taking away slaughter is not the answer. Fighting for better regulations is. 


I'm just curious, is slaughtering a horse really that different from slaughtering a cow? Cows feel pain. Cows feel fear and sense danger. Sooo... are all anti-slaughter people complete vegans?


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## DarkChylde

My point is they suddn't have been bred to begin with, if a horse has a baby it is cuz a human let it happen, they don't run wild like cats and dogs do. Also, IF people would stop overbreeding them then they wuddn't need to be slaughtered. And IF horses didn't bring the big money, their wuddn't be the lure for the heartless greedy types that don't care about horses.

Backyard breeders are part of the problem, but these huge racehorse and quarterhorse ranches that churn out hundreds of horses are the biggest problem, the Jockey Club alone predicted some 20,000 to 30,000 foals this year, how many of THEM are gonna end up in a rescue or bound for slaughter? How many won't make the grade? Breeders don't care, they get PAID by the slaughterhouses TO overbreed. I work in rescue, and at least half the horses that come in are OTTBs, or Off the Track ThoroBreds. 

And the bill WON"T make slaughtering your horse illegal, it just won't allow the heartless humans to make money off selling the meat.


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## upnover

DarkChylde said:


> My point is they suddn't have been bred to begin with, if a horse has a baby it is cuz a human let it happen, they don't run wild like cats and dogs do. Also, IF people would stop overbreeding them then they wuddn't need to be slaughtered. And IF horses didn't bring the big money, their wuddn't be the lure for the heartless greedy types that don't care about horses.
> 
> Backyard breeders are part of the problem, but these huge racehorse and quarterhorse ranches that churn out hundreds of horses are the biggest problem, the Jockey Club alone predicted some 20,000 to 30,000 foals this year, how many of THEM are gonna end up in a rescue or bound for slaughter? How many won't make the grade? Breeders don't care, they get PAID by the slaughterhouses TO overbreed. I work in rescue, and at least half the horses that come in are OTTBs, or Off the Track ThoroBreds.
> 
> And the bill WON"T make slaughtering your horse illegal, it just won't allow the heartless humans to make money off selling the meat.



You're right. Stop the over breeding. It's ridiculous. Educate people to more responsible. Go rescue horses. But regulate slaughtering so it's more humane, don't ban it completely. 

And yes, horses do run untouched like feral dogs/cats. There are a sad number of idiots who have a herd of horses for no reason and don't touch them. An untouched 3 year old to me is the same thing as a feral stray. The difference is that it takes a highly trained person (and a heck of a lot of time, energy, and money) to make them somewhat suitable for the average horse owner. And all those hundreds of thousands of unwanted dogs/cats that get euthanized each year? Slaughter was the horse's population control. It is very expensive to euthanize a horse and deal with the carcass. So what do you do with all of those unwanted horses? I would like to know what people's answer to that is... I have yet to hear a good practical doable option.
And some (often lots) of breedings happened because someone did nothing about a situation. You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard "I stuck her out with a stud because I didn't know she was old enough to breed" or "my stallion got out of his pasture and I found him with a herd of mares". To me that's just as bad, if not worse, as overbreeding.


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## Kincsem

What horse breeders and where are being paid to overbreed by slaughterhouses? It cost $200. to register a Thoroughbred foal not counting stud fees which are usually at least $500. and go up to $300,000. If people are breeding horses for slaughter they are breeding unregistered horses. The largest numbers of any breed being born each year are Quarter Horses and there are more APHA horses being bred too. The AQHA and APHA are pro slaughter. Thoroughbred breeders are breeding less horses and the Jockey Club is against slaughter. More and more racetracks are announcing "zero tolerance for slaughter". Any owner or trainer who sells a horse to slaughter or takes them to an auction where horses are sold to slaughter will be banned from the racetrack and not be allowed to race their horses there. They are allowed to donate them to horse rescues. The No. 1 breed going to slaughter according to the government was Quarter Horses. Try checking on how many Quarter Horses,APHA horses,etc are being bred each year. There are racing Quarter Horses,Arabians,Standardbreds and I think in some places Appaloosa's also.


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## steph81285

That video is hard to watch but is so true on what really happens out there.


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## Kincsem

Slaughter is not population control. Sterilization and keeping animals apart is population control just like with any other domesticated animal. Dogs and cats get spayed and neutered and horses get spayed and gelded. There will hopefully be a good home waiting for every baby someday whether they are large or small human or non human. A bullet is not expensive and is humane. In most places where horses are allowed the body can be buried on the property. There are tractor attachments that could make the job fairly easy or a backhoe could dig the hole. Both are usually available in areas where horses are allowed. If a bullet is used the body could be fed to other animals. The body could be taken to the landfill which is where all the animals euthanized at the pound go. In some areas a zoo might even pay for the body. Animal control will usually take any animal in need and usually the SPCA also and there are horse rescues. If dogs or cats were killed the way horses were in this country and are being killed in other places they would likely be arrested for cruelty. I do not believe that a horse is less deserving of a humane end than any other pet.A horse works for people and does what they want and for them to end up dying a horrible death at the hands of strangers is wrong. Even wild untamed horses deserve better. Horse theft was fueled by horse slaughter and many horses were either stolen outright or stolen by lying and claiming a good home would be given to the horse. www.netposse.com was set up to help people locate stolen horses.


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## DarkChylde

upnover said:


> You're right. Stop the over breeding. It's ridiculous. Educate people to more responsible. Go rescue horses. But regulate slaughtering so it's more humane, don't ban it completely.
> 
> And yes, horses do run untouched like feral dogs/cats. There are a sad number of idiots who have a herd of horses for no reason and don't touch them. An untouched 3 year old to me is the same thing as a feral stray. The difference is that it takes a highly trained person (and a heck of a lot of time, energy, and money) to make them somewhat suitable for the average horse owner. And all those hundreds of thousands of unwanted dogs/cats that get euthanized each year? Slaughter was the horse's population control. It is very expensive to euthanize a horse and deal with the carcass. So what do you do with all of those unwanted horses? I would like to know what people's answer to that is... I have yet to hear a good practical doable option.
> And some (often lots) of breedings happened because someone did nothing about a situation. You wouldn't believe how many times I've heard "I stuck her out with a stud because I didn't know she was old enough to breed" or "my stallion got out of his pasture and I found him with a herd of mares". To me that's just as bad, if not worse, as overbreeding.


I say that we as a horse community need to stop taking the easy way out and get together and find solutions, rather than all the bickering and fighting. We need to appeal to the registration community (who make large sums off of over breeding, what do they care,they get money for every registered horses and transfer fees for very tranfer, they NEED too many horses, more horses, more money.) Also, the penalities should be made much stiffer for animal neglect, in my own area the humane society went to great lengths to get video of a puppy mill, and the people got a small fine and are still in business. THIS needs to change. THEN, I think ALL reigstries should be like the Fresians, they should be approved by VERY critical standards, and reasonable limits on breeding should be introduced, and an animal pass rigirous standards to be allowed registry. (Now, this does not mean I support the NAIS movement, let me clarify THAT.) Also, I think that the assembliy line slaughter we have now can never be 'made' humane, it was created for cattle and done by those with no concern whatsoever for the animals they lived by. Also, the great need for horse meat for human consumption that brings the big money for horse meat will end when legislation is approved and the border problem can be addressed (as the bill is an agricultural budget bill the border problem cant be addressed (supposedly, tho they log roll in what they want if it's pork)) and America isn't producing the horses for all those countires to enjoy thier FlickaBurgers. THEN I think we SHOULD create a humane, quick death, where the stoppage of the heart is certifired before skinning, and the meat used to feed the hundreds of thousands of cats and dogs in this country,(or IF we use the meat for human consumption it be to feed the starving millions in Darfur and all the other places of the world not germaine to the conversation but another truly nobel and good use of the meat from our PETS) open up lots of jobs for eople to compete with China and CHina doesnt hafta poison any more of our beloved pets and big cooperations like Alpo and Purina can have a little competition, which would create SOME market for horse meat (altho NOT for human consumption) and still be able to process the PETS we all have when they reach the end of their life spans, or become to injured or sick to have any quality of life anymore. I also think we as a community should band together and fundraise (if Obama can do it we should be able to ) and buy up some land out west and create a reserve that will be monitored and managed (but NOT by the govt, grumle grumble) to deal with the overpopulation problem now. Also, if we would stop worrying so much about tryin to impress somebody and resist the urge to join the throngs of breed snobs, and rescue the next horse we want, that would also make a differnce. The horse 'industry' is most definately NOT looking out for the future of horses themselves, but I am.


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## DarkChylde

Kincsem said:


> What horse breeders and where are being paid to overbreed by slaughterhouses? It cost $200. to register a Thoroughbred foal not counting stud fees which are usually at least $500. and go up to $300,000. If people are breeding horses for slaughter they are breeding unregistered horses. The largest numbers of any breed being born each year are Quarter Horses and there are more APHA horses being bred too. The AQHA and APHA are pro slaughter. Thoroughbred breeders are breeding less horses and the Jockey Club is against slaughter. More and more racetracks are announcing "zero tolerance for slaughter". Any owner or trainer who sells a horse to slaughter or takes them to an auction where horses are sold to slaughter will be banned from the racetrack and not be allowed to race their horses there. They are allowed to donate them to horse rescues. The No. 1 breed going to slaughter according to the government was Quarter Horses. Try checking on how many Quarter Horses,APHA horses,etc are being bred each year. There are racing Quarter Horses,Arabians,Standardbreds and I think in some places Appaloosa's also.


The breeders don't register the culls, they do 'create' them, however and ship them off with the meat men when they don't make the grade, know a girl that works on a HUGE quarterhorse ranch that can verify that one. And like I said, working in rescue I know of over half the horses I have worked with are OTTBs, and I can get stats from other rescues if need be. If people cuddn't get big bucks for fat, healty young horses (the 80%-90% of horses that are ACTUALLY slaughtered) from the meat men, then there would not be the demand, and breeding horses for food would stop, along with one of the main reasons for overbreeding.

But I will definately admit to being VERY pleased when Iheard about the 'zero-tolerance for slaughter' thing on some of the racetracks, if it catches on it will help greatly. But ALL overbreeding needs addressing, I didn't mean to pick on the registrered ones only. Some registries ARE stepping up to the bat, tho it was only making the public aware of the problem made anyone hafta to deal with it.


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## Mira

Go slaughter. For it all the way.


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## DarkChylde

Perhaps if your horse was next for the chop, you might feel a little different. Even if I supported slaughter, it would be different to know any of my horses would have it done to them.


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## Mira

My horse isn't going anywhere, and if he were, I check out my buyers. I'd sell him to someone that's obviously going to use him, not send him to slaughter.


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## DarkChylde

There is one thing you mite not have thought of.

The entire reason I got involved in tryin to outlaw slaughter. I had a good friend who woke up one morning and found her fences cut. And Popcorn, the huge, gentle giant that belonged to a then-12-yr-old girl went for slaughter, they later found out. He had a freeze-brand, btw. What happened in those horrible videos, can you imagine being 12 and having your horse stolen and find out that THAT was your horse's fate? And as long as a horse thief can make a fast $300 (and they give that for a fat, healthy horse NOW I know, cuz I know some meat men) then it makes horsestealing profitible. Now, if slaughter wasn't a problem that it is, then there would not be as much incentive to steal horses, altho I am sure SOME would go on, it is slaughter that makes it profitiable. Selling the stolen horse for meat it is another facet of slaughter rarely considered. I worry about my horses meeting that fate, we aren't always in control of everything. My friend found this out the hard way, and the heart of a little girl was forever broken, a personal side to the slaughter issue.


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## Mira

That is really sad and I feel sorry for her. And yeah, I'd be all sad too. But you have to realize where the blame should be placed - not on slaughter in general, but on the people that went and took that horse to slaughter it. It is their fault, not the whole process. 

Slaughter was a good thing for this country. I'd rather horses just be killed than slowly starving or dying of some sort of injury/disease because people abandoned them for whatever reason. 

Your story was sad but I still stand behind it. If my horse is ever stolen and slaughtered, I'll be going after the people that took him, not complaining over slaughter.


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## Kincsem

The blame should be placed on the people who starve and/or abandon their animals. Both are crimes and the guilty should be punished. Transport to slaughter is cruel and the actual slaughter process is also cruel and the guilty should be punished. Those who committed the crimes against the horses should suffer. All of them. Just like the horse thief they are all criminals. Cruelty is a crime in every state I know of and so is starving,abandoning,and stealing animals. Humane slaughter and humane transport are the law in this country and horses were being slaughtered cruelly and therefore illegally and transport laws were broken also. I do not believe that cruelty to animals has ever been a good thing for any country.


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## DarkChylde

Agreed, Kincsem!

My point is that slaughter DID make it profitible. Most horse thieves still make the bucks cuz slaughter gives the big bucks, no questions asked. 

Mite be good for the country but it sucks for the horses. Ask the next one in line.


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## BarneyBabby

I dont agree with slaughter horses all the way. They are beautiful creatures but so are cow,pigs,chickens,goats,etc. and they do the same thing to them yet no one cares about that. I would never ever want to see my horse or anyone elses horses sent to the slaughter. I have saved at least 12 from going to the slaughter house (one was a retired saddlebred with wonderful bloodlines and had a World Grand champion baby. and she was skin and bones noone wanted her so a guy from a slaughter house was there and was bidding agaist me and I won her. I paid 50$ dollars for her pappers and all). People enjoy there meat, and that is just something we are going to have to live with.


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## Kincsem

There are people who do care about cruelty to cows,pigs,chickens,turkeys,goats,etc. PETA is one of the organizations exposing cruelty to other animals and trying to end it. Farm Animal Santuary is another group trying to help animals raised for food. Cruelty has turned a lot of people into vegetarians and I am one of them. Ruined my appetite for meat reading about the terrible things that were being done to cattle,pigs,etc.


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## DarkChylde

I am actually a vegan, been one for many years now, but my family eats meat. My main point with horse meat is while Americans don't eat them, and polls taken show the very idea is 'gross', that America supplies ALL the horsemeat for the humans in the world that do.

But yes, all meat is distasteful to me. I do dairy, however, unlike most vegans, but no 'flesh'. For me it is a spiritual thing, tho.


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## Kirsti Arndt

when was the last time you ate horse meat? ehhhhh? go take a road trip and view a house of "slaughter" you wont get 50 feet from it and not hear the anguish.Euthenasia and slaughter are two separate issues FOR A REASON.
Euthenasia is (hopefully) the caring act of a responsible human for an animal in distress or for an animal who will not recieve care by any other means. Slaughter on the other hand is a merciless way to dispose of a responsibility or to get a burger./ i have a big issue with responsibility end of it.
and i dont buy dog food with horse meat in it-someday i wil find a way to give my dogs and myself protien without any animal being slaughtered for it. Beans dont cut it


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## Kirsti Arndt

oh i forgot to commend you girls and gents who are vegans -i do so commend you for your commitment.


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## Kincsem

Milk,cheese,eggs supply complete proteins just like meat. Eggs have everything but milk is low in iron which I guess is natures way of encouraging babies to start eating solid food. Grass and green leafy vegetables have plenty of that. You could feed your dogs eggs and milk also. If you have a farm you could have your own cow and/or chickens. Chickens can lay eggs for years once they start if they are happy and well cared for. They love to forage and eat insects but need to be protected from predatory wildlife. They can eat grass and horse feed but they also make food especially for chickens. Grower when they are babies and then layer formula when they are grown. Storey has a book on making cheeses. Horses in other countries are slaughtered for meat also not just American horses. There are slaughterhouses in more than one European country + Japan. There is even a breed of horses in Europe that is bred and raised mostly for meat.


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## DarkChylde

WHile horses are slaughtered for meat the world over, it is America that supplies some 80% of the horse meat. I can prolly find the links to the exact stats, tho I will hafta dig. Since I had to replace my hard drive I would hafta look a bunch of stuff up again.....

I dunno, I am a vegan and I live offa beans and tofu....... But yes, cheese and eggs are an excellent source of animal-based protiens, tho I don't eat eggs I DO 'dairy.'


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## county

I'd love to see your stats that the U.S. supplies 80% of the horses eaten world wide because your not even close. 

The horse in the OP was slaughtered in Japan a few years ago and was owned by a citizen of that country. I see no reason to ban horse slaughter any more then any other species I've just never heard of a logical reason to do so. But then I don't try and control what others eat nor do I place the horse as more worthy then other species of livestock.


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## DarkChylde

THought I answered this yesterday. Musta not gone thru.

The stats I have are from when slaughterhouses were in full operation, now that horses are goin over the border there ARE no up-to-date stats. But that was the sats in 1998 (I THINK it was) and I have recently gotten my computer fixed, but I lost all my links, but I THINK that stat came from the Mary Nash website. I will try and look it up.

I am a vegan, yet my own family eats meat all the time. If I was interested in controlling what others eat, I would start with them, HMMM? But I don't, it is not my interest to control whtat others eat, you can leave that particular accusation out. I could care less what they eat. I want horse slaughter IN THIS COUNTRY to stop, and other countries can eat thier own horses, not ours.

I am interested in stopping the wholesale slaughter of horses for human consumption (brings in the BIG money cuz it is approved for human consumption). I don't care what they eat. I wanna stop corrupt foreigners from making big bucks offa slaughtering American horses, I wanna stop horse thiefs from being able to make the fast $300 to $400 offa the horses they steal, which means even MY horses could end up in a slaughter house. 

I have never stated that I seek to control what others eat.


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## county

I never said you made the statement in any way where you came up with that I have no idea?

I'm not into banning the import/export business of meat or any food to other countries be it horse, beef, poultry etc. I do not place the value of one species over another to me their all worthy of the same treatment and laws. 

I also have no problems with people making money its how our economic system works. Corrupt foreigners? Theres more corrupt U.S. business in the world then all other countries combined. If its fine for the U.S. to be all over the world I sure see no reason to not let others have a business here.

Horse theif? Bad deal for sure but I'm hardly going to want to ban horse slaughter because someone steals a few horses and sells for meat. If I did I'd have to want cattle slaughter banned also the number of horses stolen isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to cattle.

I agree you never said you want to control what others eat not sure why you thoought I accused you of it?


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## DarkChylde

county said:


> I'd love to see your stats that the U.S. supplies 80% of the horses eaten world wide because your not even close.
> 
> The horse in the OP was slaughtered in Japan a few years ago and was owned by a citizen of that country. I see no reason to ban horse slaughter any more then any other species I've just never heard of a logical reason to do so. *But then I don't try and control what others eat* nor do I place the horse as more worthy then other species of livestock.


In so stating it was an implication that someone who supports a ban on slaughter DOES try to control what others eat, otherwise, why bring it up?

And cows and pigs and chickens have not helped our society like horses have, we owe them a debt. PLUS they are really pets here, and not CONSUMED by Americans, and most Americans find the idea (as I do) that our horses are feeding the people who DO find it ok to eat horses, and that is not acceptable to them, nor to me.

Horses are NOT consumed in this country. Horse meat FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION is why horse meat brings SUCH big bucks the slaughterhouses used to operate in the red, they made so much money off it selling it overseas. This is OUR horses they are eating, and yes, I want to see the market for this stopped, and overbreeding AND horsetheft will no longer be profitable. When it is no longer profitable, then it will not have the incentive to continue.


Edited to add... And btw, I am not for the US 'being all over the world' either as you put it, but that is another subject entirely.


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## county

If some people don't think their horse should go to slaughter by all means they shouldn't sell it that way. But I have no desire to allow others control what I choose to sell on a free market. And of course horse meat makes money for the slaughter plants thats the goal of all business as it should be I'm certainly not in business to lose money. They also eat many species of our livestock its a very very good market for livestock and poultry producers.

Not all horses are pets same as any species on livestock I've had pet cows, pigs, chickens, and sheep their buried in the farms pet cemetary by my horses and dogs that were pets. Their is no certain species of livestock that has to be only a pet or only a meat animal. Thats totally up to the owner.

Its pretty obvios you may not want to control what people eat but you sure seem to want to control what people sell their property for.


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## iridehorses

Just a reminder everyone, that this is a touchy subject and we don't want it to get out of hand.

There have been some very interesting posts for both sides of the argument but let's keep it friendly.


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## DarkChylde

I haven't been making any accusations, but I will definately 'behave.'


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## DarkChylde

county said:


> If some people don't think their horse should go to slaughter by all means they shouldn't sell it that way. But I have no desire to allow others control what I choose to sell on a free market. And of course horse meat makes money for the slaughter plants thats the goal of all business as it should be I'm certainly not in business to lose money. They also eat many species of our livestock its a very very good market for livestock and poultry producers.
> 
> Not all horses are pets same as any species on livestock I've had pet cows, pigs, chickens, and sheep their buried in the farms pet cemetary by my horses and dogs that were pets. Their is no certain species of livestock that has to be only a pet or only a meat animal. Thats totally up to the owner.
> 
> Its pretty obvios you may not want to control what people eat but you sure seem to want to control what people sell their property for.


I haven't made the first accusation at you, nor taken this to a personal level, can you grant me the same respect? I would appreciate it.

Horse meat for human consumption has made overbreeding and horse theft profitable, and those are just SOME of the reasons it should be banned. (Not to mention the abuse, horror, and carnage connected with it from the horse's perspecitve). It isn't about me 'trying to control what other's do with thier property.' It is that a horse is a LIVING thing, not JUST 'property', it has feelings and can be hurt and that SHOULD put it in a different catagory than say, a car. I am interested in the welfare of horses, not controlling others. You can attack me all you want for it, you will not change my mind


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## county

I do not see where I have attacked you in any way could you point out just what you think is a personal attack?

Not one thing you describe is any different then any other species of livestock. Do you propose all of those be banned also? If not why? I do not place one species above another myself.


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## DarkChylde

county said:


> If some people don't think their horse should go to slaughter by all means they shouldn't sell it that way. But I have no desire to allow others control what I choose to sell on a free market. And of course horse meat makes money for the slaughter plants thats the goal of all business as it should be I'm certainly not in business to lose money. They also eat many species of our livestock its a very very good market for livestock and poultry producers.
> 
> Not all horses are pets same as any species on livestock I've had pet cows, pigs, chickens, and sheep their buried in the farms pet cemetary by my horses and dogs that were pets. Their is no certain species of livestock that has to be only a pet or only a meat animal. Thats totally up to the owner.
> 
> Its pretty obvios you may not want to control what people eat *but you sure seem to want to control what people sell their property for*.


That is making it personal, that is an attack on me, I have not made any judgements about YOU, again, please keep personal junk outta this (as I have.) I have made not judgements of you personally, made no such comments about you that you have made about me. What I bolded would definately pass for a persoanl attack, and an unwarented one at that.

I am a vegan. NO animal dies for me to eat. I would gladly see all slaughter outlawed but BECAUSE I am not into making everyone eat like me or think about their food like me is why I don't push for ALL slaughter outlawed, but I would see better treatment of ALL slaughter animals, but I save those arguements for my animal welfare groups. 

And you do place one species over the others, humans. Or do you consider humans equal with livestock? 

I LOVE horses. Moreso than any other animal. They are NOT consumed by Americans, and most americans don't want them slaughtered and the meat to go oversees. Until slaughter is banned, and the borders closed, overbreeding will continue to be profitable as will horse theft, and made profitable THANKS TO SLAUGHTER. 

Horses helped us win battles, and gave us transportation. The horse deserves credit (and protection) because it helped us to enjoy the culture and luxeries we have, cows and pigs did not. The effect of the horse in the founding of our country cannot be denied. And, last but not least, this is a thread about HORSE slaughter, therefore my focus on it.


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## county

I place humans many many many steps above all animals.

I understand you place horses over other livestock you seem to not understand I don't.

Less then 1/2 of a % of our horse population goes to slaughter each year do you actually beleive we've bred way to many to supply that 1/2 %?

Attacks? If thats an attack its only because your going out of your way to make one up. But are you saying you don't want to control where people can sell their horses? Either you do or you don't and from your posts I see nothing that would indicate you don't.


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## DarkChylde

Show me where I have made up anything to you. YOu are making this personal, it doesn't need to be. I am pretty sure if I had said the same thing about you (which I wuddn't, I don't make these kind of discussions personal) you wudda taken offense as well. 

But accountablity must not be important. SHame.

I DO understand that all livestock is the same to you. To me, horses are pets. Not livestock, but I am not the one that classifies such things. Horses DID help our culture to advance, the other animals (livestock animals) not so much. THESE are the reason I place them higher than other livestock. 

I want SLAUGHTER outlawed. If slaughter is outlawed, then it wuddn't matter. Banning slaaughter doesn't mean I am trying to dictate what other horse owners do with thier horses, I couldn't do that even IF I wanted to, and I DON"T. I want slaughtering horses for human consumption to stop. Where has that got anything to do with me trying to control other horse owners? I ain't making accusations and judgements about YOU, I ain't saying people can't take their horses and do what they want, I WANT SLAUGHTER OUTLAWED. PERIOD. I never said I wanted to control what people did with thier horses, I just want overbreeding to stop, and therefor the finacial incentive they HAVE to overbreed must stop, which would be slaughter. But you show me where I said I wanted to control what other horse people did with their horses.

By the way, where did you get the 1/2 % stats? If we are overpopulated with horses, I find it very hard to beleive that the other half are dying peacefully with the big pink shot out in the pastures...


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## county

Shame on you for making something up that was never there.

If you want a persons right to sell their horse to slaughter how are you not trrying to control what they do with it?

Where did I get the 1/2%? theres 9,250,000 horses in the country. We sell 150,000 to 160,000 to slaughter a year. I'm no math expert but that works out to about 1/2 % if I figure right.

Big pink shot in pastures? If you mean people that choose to put a horse down and the ones that die of natural causes etc. thats about 10% a year.


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## iridehorses

OK guys, this has now become personal. There does not seem to be any new information that the rest of the forum community needs to follow so I think we need to wrap this up. 

If you need to continue this then the chat room or pm should be the place.


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