# Hackamores? Should I use one?



## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

I was wondering about using a hackamore. What is the main reason people use them instead of bits? I am using a french-link snaffle on the mare I'm training and don't plan on fully switching over to a hackamore as I am an eventer and can't use a hackamore for dressage. I kinda wanted to try using one on the mare I'm training if she ends up becoming mine. Is it worth it to use a hackamore for trail rides and jumping or is it best to just stick with the snaffle bit and not even bother with the hackamore. I tried one on my Fjord and he hated it. But I know some horses who really really respond to it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I started both my mares in sidepull. However they seem to like the snaffle much more. I think it all depends on if horse is OK with the pressure on nose. Both mine hate it.


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## y wolf (Jan 22, 2011)

What type spanish bosal or mechanical. I start every thing in a bosal. Makes light horses imo. I wouldn't use a mechanical on a horse I hated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

I was planning on getting a mechanical. I don't know how to fit or use a bosal and I've been told you shouldn't use one without an experianced person to help you as using a bosal can ruin a horse.


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

Daughter uses a mechanical on Dancer. I think it's partly because she (the daughter) is a little afraid to try to bit a horse. She always has to call me to help her - then gets mad at me when I just pop the bit in and that's that! 

Back to the original point - Dancer does very well in a mechanical hack - but daughter has very light hands. She has too - she gets too rough with Dancer's nose and Dancer puts her on the ground the hard way...


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## y wolf (Jan 22, 2011)

I think you can ruin a horse with anything if not used properly. Yes a bosal takes practise to use properly. It is used one rain at a time like a snafel should be and A horse can run threw it he not used right. A hack is a good training tool but they are not more humane then a bit. My problem with the mechanical isthat if not adjusted wright they are crule. Put one around your knee and yank. They tend to have long shakes that bounce as the horse moves and pinch on every down stroke effectively dulling the horse and if adjusted tight enough not to could cause serious damage. But with every thing their only as bad as the person using them. If your heavy handed don't use a hack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Well you prob know i use a hackamore, and i love it. Some horses work better in hackamore. If you want to use a hackamore in jumping for a bit more control and still use a snaffle in dressage that be a good idea. I use a hackamore because my horse has a sensitive mouth and he listens alot better in one, i barely use any contact now he respects when i pull back. Before when i rode in a bit i would have to pull and pull to stop him.. i felt bad..


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks guys. Regena is really really responsive with the bit. She goes in to a nice frame with a steady contact and she doesn't need a lot of pulling to stop her just a slight pressure a release and she stops. She's a very responsive horse in general. I think maybe I'll try one once I get her back in constant work. 

Eventer what kind would you recommend. I see you use 2 differant kinds.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

well depends on the horse, i tried two to see what one he would work better in, the english hackamore(2nd pic) he didnt respond the best he listened.the other hackamore(more like a german hackamore) works better on him, i have alot more control and he goes into frame alot easier with that one. Once he is in frame i relieve the pressure and he stays there. I like it alot and when it comes to jumping before i used a loose ring double jointed snaffle and i couldnt stop after the jumps. now i can stop him instantly with barely any pressure im so happy it him and the hackamore


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Cool. So I guess you just got to try a few and see which works best for you and your horse. Hackamores are allowed to be used in jumper shows yes? Do you know if they're allowed in the cross-country phase of eventing?


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Yea  just make sure you fit the hackamore properly before trying them and for the first few rides, be as gentle as possible on the reins if you use to much pressure it could anger the horse or scare him/her. Yes in show jumping you can im not sure about cross country id ask your trainer or judge


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

alright. I was also wondering. What is the purpose of the hackamore combinations. I've seen some with bits and I believe Eric Lamaze uses a hackamore combo on Hickstead. Is it jsut for more control?


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Yea i was reading up on that some rides use 2 sets of reins so they use the snaffle bit most of the time but if the horse needs to be controlled more they can use the hackamore or both.


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Hmm. Interesting.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

yea,,, im not really really sure.. so whats the main reason you wanna try one


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

I just wanted to see how she'd respond to it. My friend's TB is perfectly fine in a bit but he just opens up and jumps more freely in a hackamore. My other friend has a Morgan who's a pain in the butt to do dressage with but once the hackamore goes on he collects and bends and is gorgeous. I jsut wanna see if I ca get a better response with a hackamore then with a bit. Though I do need a bit for dressage{hackamores are against the rules}.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

yea it kinda sucks but i think that rule will change eventually riders can do the same stuff in a hackamore or bitless bridle than with bits


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Yea true.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

I know there have already been bitless dressage shows, i watched a few on youtube and it looks so nice. much calmer and prettier not having the foam around the mouth and looking restricted


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)




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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)




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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks. I was always lead to understand that the foam meant they were working and accepting the bit.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

you know when you put food in your mouth and it makes your mouth water(saliva) i pretty much think of it the same way. I dont really think it that the bit is working cause a unhealthy horse can have a working bit in their mouth and not have foaming. Its just natural for your mouth to liquidate when somethign it touching your tongue,glands...


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

That makes a lot of sense.


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

@Beau Baby-
There are many types of bitless bridles to consider if the hackamore doesn't work for you. You could always try a sidepull, and indian bosal, a cross-under bitless, and LG Zaum bridle or a LightRider. Every horse has a preference! Best of luck in your bitless adventures!


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Its best to try out a few cause i tried the cross over and my horses pinned his ears back and just hated it


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

xXEventerXx said:


> Yea i was reading up on that some rides use 2 sets of reins so they use the snaffle bit most of the time but if the horse needs to be controlled more they can use the hackamore or *both*.


 Are you telling her to use a snaffle and a hack??


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

I have this one and got it because of a 5 yr old mare that will not take a bit. Once getting my older Arabian that will take a bit I stopped using it. Today we pick up our 21 yr old Pinto that all she used was a bosal type with her but said she will probably take a bit. I was thinking I would go back to using this hack. What do you all think???
Performance Series HackamoreItem #HACKSSPS at Double "H" Western Wear, Ranch & Feed Store -- Salem, Oregon


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

@ nvr2many-
If your horse is used to the bosal, why would you switch to a long-shanked mechanical hackamore? Seems kind of backwards to me.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Guess I am wondering because when I went to test drive her she didn't respond the way I felt she should. She responded to me like a horse would when you were riding them with a halter. Not something that would make me feel safe and in control out on the ranch or on trails.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I don't use a hackamore...


But for reference, yes they are legal in XC and SJ in eventing.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

nvr2many said:


> Guess I am wondering because when I went to test drive her she didn't respond the way I felt she should. She responded to me like a horse would when you were riding them with a halter. Not something that would make me feel safe and in control out on the ranch or on trails.


What makes you think you cant use a snaffle on her?
Hackamores *CAN* be harsh...especially mechanical hacks


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

thanks eventerdrew. that's in canada as well? I don't even know if I'll end up using one but some friends have gotten really good results and I'd like to see if it makes a differance.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Streakin said:


> What makes you think you cant use a snaffle on her?
> Hackamores *CAN* be harsh...especially mechanical hacks


That was my question, I guess I was not clear. I was under the horrible impression that hacks were more humane than bits. Wow, what an eye opener. Thanks to all of you I am so much more educated. My question was would be the first thing I wanted to start with. I was assuming she would not use a bit but I will research her back ground more before bringing her home and go from there. We have many different kinds of bits from snaffle on up to try so I have options without spending a lot of money and well if I have to I will head on down and buy her what she needs. I was just under the impression that is used right it would be more humane not to use the bit. Can anyone do a line up of 1-5 or 1-10.... one being less harsh on what to try first and so on as they get more severe?? Would be nice to see opinions on this, thanks everyone in advance and for those comments so far.


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## BWolters (Oct 14, 2010)

I use the exact same one as eventers 2nd photo, just got it... But I may go back to snaffle


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

nvr2many said:


> That was my question, I guess I was not clear. I was under the horrible impression that hacks were more humane than bits. Wow, what an eye opener. Thanks to all of you I am so much more educated. My question was would be the first thing I wanted to start with. I was assuming she would not use a bit but I will research her back ground more before bringing her home and go from there. We have many different kinds of bits from snaffle on up to try so I have options without spending a lot of money and well if I have to I will head on down and buy her what she needs. I was just under the impression that is used right it would be more humane not to use the bit. Can anyone do a line up of 1-5 or 1-10.... one being less harsh on what to try first and so on as they get more severe?? Would be nice to see opinions on this, thanks everyone in advance and for those comments so far.


I will more than glad to...have to run right now, but Ill be back on later


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Oh I'd love to see that lineup too. We'll be waiting Streakin.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

Ok, so Im lazy...and have chem homework(professor is a nut! LOL)
So heres an article on basically every type of bit a friend wrote on another forum
The hack part isnt elaborated much...but if you have any questions I will certainly try to answer them to the best of my capability 
http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/an-overview-of-bits-and-bitting-369826.html


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

So I am not all the way through it but I already have a question. Now in regards to my Fjord gelding. He is very very heavy on the hands. He leans on my hands a lot and is therefore pretty hard mouthed. It can sometimes take a while to stop him becuase he leans in t the pressure and pulls. I have tried a mechanical hackamore on him to see how he liked it and he really wasn't a fan of it. He threw his had a lot and was very unimpressed. I was reading and mozart said that the Little S hackamore can be used for horses who are heavy on the mouth. Woudl this be a good thing to try with my Fjord? I use a french link and a simple single joint snaffle on him. 2 seperate bridles.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

Beau Baby said:


> So I am not all the way through it but I already have a question. Now in regards to my Fjord gelding. He is very very heavy on the hands. He leans on my hands a lot and is therefore pretty hard mouthed. It can sometimes take a while to stop him becuase he leans in t the pressure and pulls. I have tried a mechanical hackamore on him to see how he liked it and he really wasn't a fan of it. He threw his had a lot and was very unimpressed. I was reading and mozart said that the Little S hackamore can be used for horses who are heavy on the mouth. Woudl this be a good thing to try with my Fjord? I use a french link and a simple single joint snaffle on him. 2 seperate bridles.


I would try a different bit first. Do you have a video?
Im assuming you ride English?


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Yes I ride english. I don't have a video sadly and I haven't ridden him since November and won't be able to for a couple months. What kind of bit would you suggest trying?


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

Beau Baby said:


> So I am not all the way through it but I already have a question. Now in regards to my Fjord gelding. He is very very heavy on the hands. He leans on my hands a lot and is therefore pretty hard mouthed. It can sometimes take a while to stop him becuase he leans in t the pressure and pulls. I have tried a mechanical hackamore on him to see how he liked it and he really wasn't a fan of it. He threw his had a lot and was very unimpressed. I was reading and mozart said that the Little S hackamore can be used for horses who are heavy on the mouth. Woudl this be a good thing to try with my Fjord? I use a french link and a simple single joint snaffle on him. 2 seperate bridles.


I don't know how to answer your question exactly, but leaning on your hands is a problem not often solved by bitting. If he's leaning into pressure, don't give him something to lean against. Uneven pressure in the reins will make it so he's forced to stop on his own and not just ram his body into the bit.

I would think that if he didn't like a mechanical, he wouldn't like a Little S any better.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Beau Baby said:


> So I am not all the way through it but I already have a question. Now in regards to my Fjord gelding. He is very very heavy on the hands. He leans on my hands a lot and is therefore pretty hard mouthed. It can sometimes take a while to stop him becuase he leans in t the pressure and pulls. I have tried a mechanical hackamore on him to see how he liked it and he really wasn't a fan of it. He threw his had a lot and was very unimpressed. I was reading and mozart said that the Little S hackamore can be used for horses who are heavy on the mouth. Woudl this be a good thing to try with my Fjord? I use a french link and a simple single joint snaffle on him. 2 seperate bridles.


My Tb used to be heavy on the hands too and threw his head alot, so thats why i tried the hackamore and he loves it now. Id say try the hackamore a bit more and see it took a few times for my horse to respond to it. just make sure the hack is fitted right and the chain or strap underneath isnt too tight. 


some time this week ill make you a video of me riding in my gelding in the mechanical hackamore.

O Just for peoples information I NEVER told her to use a hackamore and snaffle, we were discussing what eric lamaze uses


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Thanks Eventer. It shouldn't matter if you suggested or told me to use a hackamore and snaffle. It'd be you opinion but yes we were discussing Eric Lamaze's use because I know he rides in one.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

Beau Baby said:


> Thanks Eventer. It shouldn't matter if you suggested or told me to use a hackamore and snaffle. It'd be you opinion but yes we were discussing Eric Lamaze's use because I know he rides in one.


Im not as well versed on english bits, but I will suggest a smaller mouthpiece, or perhaps a bit with a little leverage. Also, try to re evalutae WHY he is on the bit. It could be a training issue...a bit isnt a band aid


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

xXEventerXx said:


> Well you prob know i use a hackamore, and i love it. Some horses work better in hackamore. If you want to use a hackamore in jumping for a bit more control and still use a snaffle in dressage that be a good idea. I use a hackamore because my horse has a sensitive mouth and he listens alot better in one, i barely use any contact now he respects when i pull back. Before when i rode in a bit i would have to pull and pull to stop him.. i felt bad..


I really dont know where to start with you, so Ill say this. The hacks you have ARE NOT as sensitive as you think. You have the curb extremely tight....when you pull back of course the horse will stop....youre bruising her/his jaw with the hack adjusted like that.

Horses dont stop because of a bit...a proper halt is achieved with the body. Stop whining about pieces of equipment....my guess is training would have made up for the issues youve had with your horse.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

The smaller the bit the harsher it is, a snaffle is not harsh at all. I rode my tb for 3 years in a bit and we went no where in training cause there was always an issue to deal with so once i got him in a hackamore everything changed. He listens to me, doesnt shake his head, doesnt pull me out of the saddle....


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Streakin said:


> I really dont know where to start with you, so Ill say this. The hacks you have ARE NOT as sensitive as you think. You have the curb extremely tight....when you pull back of course the horse will stop....youre bruising her/his jaw with the hack adjusted like that.
> 
> Horses dont stop because of a bit...a proper halt is achieved with the body. Stop whining about pieces of equipment....my guess is training would have made up for the issues youve had with your horse.


Excuse me but i have argued over this issue before, and my curb was NOT to tight i can fit 2 fingers in it easily and if you havent noticed he has a winter coat so it looks like its tighter than it really is. The longer shank hackamore the chain actually hangs down its not adjusted in anyway.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

xXEventerXx said:


> Excuse me but i have argued over this issue before, and my curb was NOT to tight i can fit 2 fingers in it easily and if you havent noticed he has a winter coat so it looks like its tighter than it really is. The longer shank hackamore the chain actually hangs down its not adjusted in anyway.


The longer the shank more severe as well 

You picked 2 crappy hacks, thats for sure. Your horses wouldve been better off in a snaffle.

Did you ever even bother to check your horses teeth?:lol:


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

You are seriously talking to me like i dont know anything about riding or horses, and yea he gets his teeth floated once a year  

and you think and if you didnt look at the different hacks one is less severe than the other. And how can you tell by a photo if the curb is tight or not... have you ever ridden in a hackamore? or dealt with a horse than needed one?


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Okay guys I never meant for this to become a fight thread. I just wanted some advice on hacks and what would be good to use. You guys have helped me a lot and I thank you for that. I have hard hands Streakin so some of Ben's problems come from.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

AND how would you know if my horse is better in a snaffle? have you seen him been ridden in a hack or bit? NO do you know his history? NO you ovbiously dont know whjat your talking about so just leave this forum


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

xXEventerXx said:


> You are seriously talking to me like i dont know anything about riding or horses, and yea he gets his teeth floated once a year
> 
> and you think and if you didnt look at the different hacks one is less severe than the other. And how can you tell by a photo if the curb is tight or not... have you ever ridden in a hackamore? or dealt with a horse than needed one?


Yes, I have used hackamores. I find them to be innefective for my horses and my sport.


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

xXEventerXx said:


> AND how would you know if my horse is better in a snaffle? have you seen him been ridden in a hack or bit? NO do you know his history? *NO you ovbiously dont know whjat your talking about so just leave this forum*


People like you make it too fun 


Ive have talked with members that are very familiar with you.

You can always post a video to prove me wrong????


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## Streakin (Jan 8, 2011)

Beau Baby said:


> Okay guys I never meant for this to become a fight thread. I just wanted some advice on hacks and what would be good to use. You guys have helped me a lot and I thank you for that. I have hard hands Streakin so some of Ben's problems come from.


If I am able to help, I will be more than happy to. However, I am done with this thread. Feel free to PM me!

I used to have the same issue with one of my horses. The answer wasnt in a bit alone, but slow work


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Yes, maybe you have used hackamores on your horses and they didnt work good for you but maybe they will work for other horses.


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Okay guys, enough. Do not start fighting or arguing in here please.


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## y wolf (Jan 22, 2011)

a hack is the most harsh thing on the market in the wrong hands. As I said befor it greatly depends on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Streakin said:


> Are you telling her to use a snaffle and a hack??


I just saw a picture of this in my sport horse marketplace magazine in an ad for a photographer. It was a picture from the WEG of a showjumper and it looked too me like they were in a hack AND in o-ring type bit with a wire connecting the two that went to one set of reins. I was very confused.

Anyway, my barn uses hacks on all of their lesson horses. That way the kids can learn to have gentle steady hands without ruining the horse's mouth with a bit in it. I think that is totally the way to go with beginners.


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