# What I learned from my barn build one year later



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

It's been a little over a year. In that time, we've had tons of snow, bitterly cold temperatures, freezing rain, rain, sleet, very hot temperatures, and even a small hurricane that was strong enough to destroy my gazebo. I had initially started a thread on building my barn, but rather than update that one, I figured I'd post a very brief summary of what I learned in a year, and things I might do differently, as well as advice that was useful, and some not so much. Keep in mind, I am writing from someone living in eastern Canada, so climate makes a very important difference.

Overall, I think we fared very well! I love our barn, and so do my horses. There is actually very little I would change! 

What has worked well:

1 - Concrete floors and 4 foot frost-free concrete walls. Yes, I know, not good for the horses' legs. I wanted dirt floors in the stalls, but because we had dutch doors leading out from said stalls, the contractor was uncomfortable leaving then open. I ended up compromising on this one. Concrete floors were covered in rubber mats, then thick bedding. The horses really don't spend that much time in their stalls, so I think this mitigated any effects. Neither has shown issues, including my 18 year old Arab. The floors are so easy to sweep clean, do not puddle (they were poured so they angle out where the dutch doors go out, and we didn't put in any drains either, nor did I ever regret that decision). 

2 - A raised barn. I thought my contractor was insane when I saw how he poured the foundation. The land slopes very gently, so the front of the 48 ft barn is only about a foot above ground level, but the back was a raised a good six feet. I worried it would look ridiculous or create too steep a hill for the horses. Nope. They did bring in lots of fill, sloped it off, but it looks fine, and the horses always have a dry spot to stand in! They sloped up the fill gradually to the entrance to each stall, so they like to stand there where it's dry. This has saved my horses from severe thrush (common here in the spring) or mud fever. And no matter how messy, rainy, or muddy it gets out there, my barn is always high and dry.

3 - A well-planned layout. As I've mentioned, each stall has a dutch door that leads to a paddock. That paddock leads to a pasture. I just added another pasture to that, connecting it to the old one using simple gate handles. My horses can be left out 24/7 this time of year, and come in at will to stand in their stalls to cool off, get away from the flies, etc. I love how easy it is. My non-horsey husband can let them out if need be since they don't need to be haltered or led out to a pasture area. Oh, and I conditioned them to come into their stalls with a cow bell. They run in every time. I only feed them (a bit of wet hay cubes as a vehicle supplement) if they go in the right stalls. Works every time, and it allows me to inspect them for any injuries and keep them anticipating positive interactions with me. I highly recommend dutch doors. 

4 - A generous overhang on one side of the barn. Over their stall doors, I had my contractor build a 10 ft x 24 ft overhang. He just extended the trusses on one side (they had to do a special build, but it really wasn't much more money). They stand under there all the time to get away from rain, snow, wind, sun, and flies. I don't need an additional shelter. 

5 - A solid top board fence in the paddock. In the winter, because we get very deep snow that tends to bury the electric fence (not even kidding, it can get over 5 feet high), a top board for the winter/sacrifice paddock was a necessity in my book. I could not live without it. I have seen too many horses get out because the snow gets over the electric fence, then pulls it down in the freeze/thaw process. Also, if the power goes out, my horses go in the paddock. They see the top board, and don't question it. It isn't pretty - we got rough board from a local mill pretty cheap, and my husband did a kind of stagger design, but it sure is effective! 

What I would do differently:

1 - A frost-free hydrant. We were in the last few days of the build. I had given my notice at the boarding barn and were about to get delivery of a second horse, yet the electrical and plumbing were not finished. I was stressed. We brought in a plumber who could get the job done in a day (a deep 6 foot trench had already been dug to get the water to the barn, he just had to bring it up into the tack room). I told him I didn't want my water freezing, he assured me it wouldn't. He lied. It froze a few times. I have learned to just shut off the water to the barn when temps hit -20 C at night. That happens pretty often, but luckily, there is a valve in the house I can shut off. But I wish I had insisted that he put in a frost-free hydrant. 

2 - I wish my paddock, which we also use as a riding arena, had better soil, both for drainage purposes, and for riding. It has a few stumps, and some rough areas with hills and hollows. I dream of a nice sandy arena. But right now, it's not in the budget. I bet I could have gotten my contractor to bring in a few extra dump truck loads of sand for a pretty reasonable price. The other issue is that now that the paddock is fenced in, we'd have to remove some of the fencing for a dump truck to drive through since the posts aren't spaced far enough for a dump truck to get in. I'll probably get this done eventually, but it might have been wise to get it all done at the time of the build. 

3 - I remember posting in here about how much pasture I have. Other than my 120 ft by about 80 ft paddock, I had about 1.5 acres for two small horses. It's not enough. By late August of the first summer, I had to shut down the pasture, because they were destroying it. Luckily, I have just remedied this by adding another 2 acres in the back field. Can't say this is really a regret, but more a reflection of what we were able to accomplish realistically in one summer. Thankfully, we have lots of land, and there was a beautiful field in the back of our property full of timothy taller than me, just waiting to be fenced! But I admit, I was a bit delusional in thinking 1.5 acres would be enough, especially given that I leave them out 24/7. 

Advice that didn't apply to me:

1 - Barn fans/ventilation systems. Please don't misunderstand me, I know those who gave me advice on this forum meant well. But I was told by a few people that my barn would overheat without these, or that the bugs would be unbreable. It has not ever been the case. The horses seek the barn on hot days because it stays nice and cool. They tend to spend the hot afternoon inside, and go out to the pasture at night. again, they are free to come and go as they please so this tells me something. Of course ventilation might be necessary in some climates, but it wasn't here. It would have been a completely useless expense. I do have very high ceilings (10 ft) and the stalls are actually open all the way up to the roof (18 ft). Even when the horses are stalled at night in the winter, the tops of the dutch doors stay open. Vets and farriers have all remarked that the natural ventilation in my barn is excellent. In the summer, there are windows all around that can be opened. So even though it can get hot here in the summer (high 30s C), the barn is always cooler than anywhere else. 

2 - Avoiding a metal roof because of the noise or condensation. I have a metal roof and metal sides (though it's on a full wood frame). Yes, I can hear the pitter patter of rain on the roof. No, it doesn't bother my horses in the least. It isn't deafening. I can have a conversation in there even when it's raining hard. I have also never seen condensation in my barn, but that likely goes back to the fact that it's well ventilated. 

3 - Insulation. Nope, nope, nope. Insulating a barn is a bad idea in my opinion, at least in this climate. It will only create more condensation since it traps moisture. 

Hope this helps those planning a barn build!


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Acadianartist said:


> my 18 year old Arab.


Who else here is anal about the distinction between an "Arab" and an "Arabian"? "Riding an Arab", to me, evokes a completely different mental imagery than "riding an Arabian"...

Seriously, though - awesome write-up!!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Who else here is anal about the distinction between an "Arab" and an "Arabian"? "Riding an Arab", to me, evokes a completely different mental imagery than "riding an Arabian"...
> 
> Seriously, though - awesome write-up!!


They sound exactly the same to me. 

Agree about OP, I read and saved. Hopefully will be building a barn in Western Ma which has a similar enough climate that all these things feel relevant to me.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Who else here is anal about the distinction between an "Arab" and an "Arabian"? "Riding an Arab", to me, evokes a completely different mental imagery than "riding an Arabian"...
> 
> Seriously, though - awesome write-up!!


Sorry, to me Arab and Arabian are interchangeable. Arab is just shorter! But if someone wants to point out to me how they are different, I'm all ears (well, eyes!).


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> Sorry, to me Arab and Arabian are interchangeable. Arab is just shorter! But if someone wants to point out to me how they are different, I'm all ears (well, eyes!).


Yea, me too. I just don't get it??

**

Otherwise most helpful post for those who are building a barn. Especially in extreme temperatures!


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Acadianartist said:


> Sorry, to me Arab and Arabian are interchangeable. Arab is just shorter! But if someone wants to point out to me how they are different, I'm all ears (well, eyes!).


Well, an "Arab" is a member of a tribe - like a "Jew" or a "Celt". Arab*ian* is an adjective that refers to something from Arabs' culture, like Arabian horse. Or Arabian Nights. Similarly, Jew*ish* rye bread, or Celt*ic* knot.

To complete the confusion, Arab*ic* refers to the language.

So, when (particularly) women talk about "riding an Arab", I always think of the song, "Save a horse, ride an Arab." :cowboy:


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

mmshiro said:


> Well, an "Arab" is a member of a tribe - like a "Jew" or a "Celt". Arab*ian* is an adjective that refers to something from Arabs' culture, like Arabian horse. Or Arabian Nights. Similarly, Jew*ish* rye bread, or Celt*ic* knot.
> 
> To complete the confusion, Arab*ic* refers to the language.
> 
> So, when (particularly) women talk about "riding an Arab", I always think of the song, "Save a horse, ride an Arab." :cowboy:


Yes, I'm aware of the complexities of the English language. However, Arabian horses are commonly referred to as "Arabs" by those who own them. I didn't think anyone was thinking I had an 18 year old Arabian person in my barn.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

mmshiro said:


> Well, an "Arab" is a member of a tribe - like a "Jew" or a "Celt".


Many of us think of our horses as people, so our Arabs are thought of as more similar to members of a tribe more than an aspect of a culture. Perhaps the Arabs themselves started this since the old tales say they had the horses sleeping in their tents - more like tribe members. Arab is a noun that describes the entity that is the Arab horse, which you couldn't apply as well to rye bread or a knot. But people coming from the Arabian peninsula can also be accurately described as Arabian. So the terms used for the people and the horses are synonymous.

(Sorry Acadian, couldn't resist a reply. But your barn info is very interesting and helpful.)


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Going back to my barn, I would add that I hadn't really thought through manure disposal in the winter. I mean, I had thought about it, and felt I was well prepared, but it hadn't occurred to me that keeping the path to the manure pile clear would be such a challenge. Or that pulling my manure cart up and down that hill when it's snowed-in or iced-up would be problematic. 

Again, we get several feet of snow. At its peak, the snow in the paddock was higher than my 5 foot fence in some places. Luckily, my dear husband was kind enough to blow out an area of my paddock for the horses to get around, and so we could still ride. Since he keeps his tractor (with 6 foot snowblower attachment) in the equipment bay in the front part of the barn, he also cleared a nice, wide path to the house after every snowfall so I could easily walk back and forth. But I was on my own trying to get out to the manure pile. Every time we got a big dump of snow, I had to shovel it out. So I'm glad my winter pile isn't too far away. Also, the manure cart (a gardening wagon) had to go. I started using a large muck bucket to clean the stalls, and placed it on a round saucer sled right outside the barn. My manure pile is downhill, thankfully. So I could just nudge the manure bucket on the saucer, and down it would go! Now, a 3 foot high manure pile after a 2 foot snowfall becomes a 5 foot high pile. No way I could dump it on the top of the pile most days, so it just kept growing out. 

The amount of manure accumulated over the winter was staggering. We have a composting site, much further down the property, where we haul it once the weather improves and the ground hardens enough to drive the tractor over it. But the amount of manure I piled up before we could do that was just about as much as the area could accommodate. It's all gone now, and I haul all my manure down the hill to the composting site daily. I will keep the winter manure pile just for winter, because we need it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

gottatrot said:


> Many of us think of our horses as people, so our Arabs are thought of as more similar to members of a tribe more than an aspect of a culture. Perhaps the Arabs themselves started this since the old tales say they had the horses sleeping in their tents - more like tribe members. Arab is a noun that describes the entity that is the Arab horse, which you couldn't apply as well to rye bread or a knot. But people coming from the Arabian peninsula can also be accurately described as Arabian. So the terms used for the people and the horses are synonymous.
> 
> (Sorry Acadian, couldn't resist a reply. But your barn info is very interesting and helpful.)


Thanks gottatrot. I second that!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> 2 - Avoiding a metal roof because of the noise or condensation. I have a metal roof and metal sides (though it's on a full wood frame). Yes, I can hear the pitter patter of rain on the roof. No, it doesn't bother my horses in the least. It isn't deafening. I can have a conversation in there even when it's raining hard.



_I so wish this was true in Florida where I live....
Pitter-patter, :icon_rolleyes: forget it!
When it rains the afternoon rains in summer thunderstorms where we receive 3" - 4" inches of rain in an hour the noise is deafening to* my ears.
*I can't totally tell you what my horses think but they do put their ears back a lot further and their head is down lower to the ground when under the barn at that time.
They always run to and under the barn as the trees offer no protection and they will come at a flat out dead-run home when that rain starts....they can just out-run it to safety barely wet. 
:gallop::gallop::gallop::gallop:........
We need the rain everyday it dries here so fast. With the intense sun and higher temps I would love it to be spring showers and rains in intensity of all night rain, not deluges.
It is very common here to have rainfall totals in 6" - 8", and more for a few hours of rain.

__My horses love to come home for their afternoon snooze under the barn overhang too...
Lower temps, "dark" and no to few flies to pester them...
I swear I hear a sigh from them when they come home... :smile:
:runninghorse2:...
_


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

People almost always shorten the names of breeds which are more than two syllables, sometimes to the point that no one who isn't 'in the fancy' knows what the heck they are talking about. "Arab" is at least intelligible.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

horselovinguy said:


> _I so wish this was true in Florida where I live....
> Pitter-patter, :icon_rolleyes: forget it!
> When it rains the afternoon rains in summer thunderstorms where we receive 3" - 4" inches of rain in an hour the noise is deafening to* my ears.
> *I can't totally tell you what my horses think but they do put their ears back a lot further and their head is down lower to the ground when under the barn at that time.
> ...



And hail hitting my metal roof sends more two into a panic. After a year now, they are better about it.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

Your barn info is very helpful. 

My experiences
Concrete floors – I’ve used them without a mat and found them to be easy to keep clean. I often kept the bed up against the sides all day and either washed them or brushed them when they dried out. I had at least a good two and half feet of shavings for padding and even my old arthritic gelding had no problems. Having stabled on a dirt floor and unfortunately cobbles (a nightmare) I’d say that I prefer concrete, although now I’d probably add a mat as well.

Roofs – I used to think that metal roofs were a problem but I was shown to be wrong. Mine was kept out or in a stable with a solid tiled roof and I thought that there would be issues. The noise when it rained hard was loud but didn’t seem to bother him; the noise from the wind bothered him more as it rattled. In the end he got used to it, he had no other option. 

Ventilation - It had no ventilation other than four Dutch doors, one on each side. It was easy to open the top half and let the breeze through. Granted we don’t get the same temperatures as a lot of places (around high 20s to 30 in the summer and -25 at worst in the winter) and we were on the side of a hill so there was always some sort of breeze, but it was never an issue.

Manure – All my other places have put the muck in a back of a trailer for regular removal or keeping them out 24/7, meant that I had less than I would’ve had if they were stabled – no shavings etc. So I didn’t think about space. Like you I used a large muck bucket to remove the manure then transferred it to a wheel barrow. The manure heap was immediately out the back of the barn in a walled-off section, I’d say all of 2 feet from the barn wall. I would’ve preferred that it was further away but that was out of my control. It made running out with a heavy load in the rain more comfortable but I don’t think it was healthy for the horses and building. The space was limited which was an issue in the winter, especially as we were sharing with a few other horses. There wasn’t a composting site but we turned it, which seemed to reduce its bulk and someone removed it a couple of times a year. Even then there were times when it overflowed. (Selling it to gardeners and adding it to my own also helped.)

Dutch doors - There was a Dutch door to the paddocks. It’s a great idea. It meant that my non-horsey family could open the door and let him walk up the stable line on his own and go into his stable. My gelding knew more than they did so I left it to him to keep the family right.

Raised Barn – Although the barn I was in was raised, the area outside wasn’t filled so it was still muddy. It kept the barn dry but the slope could get really sticky and it seemed to cling to legs far worse than the stuff from the field.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Caledonian said:


> Raised Barn – Although the barn I was in was raised, the area outside wasn’t filled so it was still muddy. It kept the barn dry but the slope could get really sticky and it seemed to cling to legs far worse than the stuff from the field.


We seem to have the same experience Caledonian. And a similar climate. 

I should have perhaps mentioned that the fill they used alongside the stalls and the back of the barn was some sort of sand. Not sandy enough to get pushed away, in that it has some firmness, but very good drainage material. I don't know if my contractor planned it that way, or if it was just a fluke, but this stuff is amazing. There is never mud in front of their stalls, for a good 20 x 30 feet raised area - though the rest of my paddock is a muddy, puddled mess in the spring. 

Ice in the paddock was another major issue this past winter, but I don't think there's much to be done about that. We just had one of those freeze/thaw winters that seem to be getting more common. There were times when I had to spread bedding around for the safety of the horses. Luckily, they had enough sense not to do anything foolish on the ice, but it was very annoying for me. Because of course in the spring, all that bedding had to be removed. I spent a few weeks shoveling wet bedding and manure that had frozen solid despite my best efforts to keep my paddock clean. 

On that note, I have found that my pasture drag attached to my four-wheeler was an indispensable tool. It really helped break up the crust on the snow and level everything off. But when we got to have about 6 inches of solid ice, the pasture drag was useless and I just had to wait for spring thaw.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> _I so wish this was true in Florida where I live....
> Pitter-patter, :icon_rolleyes: forget it!
> When it rains the afternoon rains in summer thunderstorms where we receive 3" - 4" inches of rain in an hour the noise is deafening to* my ears.
> *I can't totally tell you what my horses think but they do put their ears back a lot further and their head is down lower to the ground when under the barn at that time.
> ...


I have been in the barn in a heavy rain storm and have not found it to be loud. I've also stood in there during a major hail storm and had a conversation with my daughter. Harley slept right through it. At no point did the noise bother them in the least. Maybe it has something to do with the angle of the roof, the height of the building, or even the fact that I have a hayloft that may absorb some of the sound. As I said, the stalls are open all the way up to the roof, but running over my center aisle is a 24 x 20 hay loft (barn is 32 wide x 48 long). It is open on the sides as well, so my hay gets lots of ventilation. But even though it's only a partial loft, maybe it helps absorb some of the noise? In any case, I've been in much louder riding arenas, so I figure it's good for the horses to get used to the noise. They happily run in when it rains hard (Harley's a wimp about getting wet) and are happy to listen to the rain on the roof. 

But again, that's why I specified in my original post that I am expressing what worked for ME in THIS climate. To those building barns, I suggest you visit a lot of barns in your area and talk to the owners about what they like, and what they would change. I learned a tremendous amount by doing this. 

Another example, sliding doors for stalls. I was going to put some in, but they're expensive to get shipped here, and are not available locally. After talking to some very experienced horse people in the area, I decided against it. Many told me the doors would jam, get bent by a horse pushing against them, or just break down, and it was hard to find someone who could fix them. I went with regular swinging doors on the advice of these people. Easy to build (my contractor put them together easily), simple design means very little can go wrong, and if it does, it's simple enough that I can fix them myself. Out here, being able to do that means a lot. I also left the top part of my stalls open. There is a separating wall between the two stalls of course, and there is a partial wall on the front that prevents them from getting too close to each other. But they can happily stick their heads over the stall walls. One of my horsey neighbors saw the stalls and said that all he could think of was all the wood the horses were going to chew on. However, I know my horses. They are not chewers. They are stalled minimally. There isn't single tooth mark on a single board anywhere. Of course if someone had a cribber, or a horse that likes to chew wood, you'd have to come up with a different plan.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

My barn has a metal roof, as does my house, sheds and additions. No insulation. Love it. No condensation issues. It can be a little loud in nasty storms, but it's a non issue. 

OP, what, no pictures?!?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

secuono said:


> My barn has a metal roof, as does my house, sheds and additions. No insulation. Love it. No condensation issues. It can be a little loud in nasty storms, but it's a non issue.
> 
> OP, what, no pictures?!?


I will get some


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

As promised. Sorry about the blurry loft picture, but I wanted to show what I meant by it being open on the sides.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Stalls are 10 x 12, which, for my small horses (14.2 and 14.3) is plenty big. The tack room is the same size, though fully closed off, and there is room for a third stall, but at the moment, it's just a space to keep a few bales of hay handy, as well as manure forks, shovels, muck buckets, etc. I also forgot to mention how much I appreciate my 12 foot wide center aisle! Lots of room for the horses to turn around easily, hang halters, and of course, ribbons! (ps, first place is red in Canada). Although the idea was to be able to drive a small vehicle or four-wheeler through, I admit, there was never a need to do so. But the vet and farrier appreciate the extra room to work and it feels nice and roomy.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Good dirt to roll in. And a final shot from the back of the barn, complete with barn swallows catching lots of bugs! They made a nest in the hayloft and the babies have just started flying which is good, because we'll soon have to bring in the hay, which would have been very disruptive.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

It appears the photos didn't go through. Trying again.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

*Drooling over barn pictures*

Someday I'll have my own!

I find it interesting to hear about other people stalling horses on concrete. I remember mentioning it once to a previous BO a long time ago, and the look and horrified reaction I got, well, I might as well have just said that I want to put my horse through a meat grinder. Since our dirt out here (calichi) is basically like concrete (imagine trying to dig a hole in concrete, and you will have the equivalent of digging a hole in our desert), and we layer soft dirt on top of it. Don't see how concrete could possibly be so different.

Our dirt stalls though, they turn to bogs. Desert horses drink a lot and pee a lot. My horse more than most. A third of her 15x30ft is a muddy bog, and not a whole lot I can do about it. Most horses slosh in fetlock deep mud (and of course get thrush) when the monsoons come.

So yeah, after a few years of that, concrete stalls start sounding really attractive! :lol:


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

horseluvr2524 said:


> *Drooling over barn pictures*
> 
> Someday I'll have my own!
> 
> ...


Yes, I know some people who think concrete is horrible. I was going to go with dirt, despite the fact that it isn't the most convenient to keep clean or dry. But as I said, my contractor felt it was better to have a full foundation and I trusted him. I didn't mention that the construction crew got this barn done UNDER budget and ON time!!! I was not happy with the electrical (they did a good job, but were running behind and the bill was ridiculously high) or plumbing, but those didn't go through the contractor, so it wasn't his fault. The build itself could not have gone better. The guys were here early every morning, and I'd have a discussion with the contractor each morning about how I wanted things to be laid out. He worked in every one of my ideas, except the floors. 

In the end, the concrete with rubber mats covered in thick bedding works fine for us. But that may be partly because my horses don't spend much time in their stalls. The only time they're shut in is from about 9 pm to 7 am from January to March, and they spend a good part of that time laying down (I know because I set up stall cameras to record at night). The rest of the time they're outside, only coming in for shelter and to get away from bugs. Sometimes they like to lay in the sand in front of their stalls. 

On that topic, the bugs in the barn are minimal, and I just use sticky strips to catch them, though I do keep the barn quite clean. In the field though, they're horrible this year. I just opened the back field, and the horses came in bloody from the flies. I know a lot of people have suggested fly predators, but I can't imagine them being effective over 13 acres. And horse/moose flies have been a problem for everyone in my area this year. It just seems to be a really bad year.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

These are all good thoughts, as I hope to be building our barn (and house) within the next 2 years. 

I'm absolutely going to have concrete floors as my guys do not spend much time in their stalls at all, and maybe experiment with polylast stall flooring or something similar to make cleanup easy.

I want them to have access to an overhang ... or else I will have shelters in the corrals. I want one of the stalls to have access to its own small corral in case of needing to stall for injuries, but I can always set up corral panels too. I want several automatic waterers in the corrals so that one "head honcho" can't keep the rest away (it happens). 

And I want to somehow magically make the barn corral accessable from any pasture, so they can always come back to the barn if they want. I've got 130 acres to work with so that might take some alleyway planning with pasture rotation but I think we can do it!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

beau159 said:


> These are all good thoughts, as I hope to be building our barn (and house) within the next 2 years.
> 
> I'm absolutely going to have concrete floors as my guys do not spend much time in their stalls at all, and maybe experiment with polylast stall flooring or something similar to make cleanup easy.
> 
> ...


Yes, I LOVE the fact that my horses can go from the barn, to the paddock, to pasture # 1, to pasture # 2, with the simple opening of gates. I did have to get pretty creative to achieve that though! Pasture # 1 and # 2 are separated by woods and a brook that is rushing in the spring, but dry right now. I cleared a few trees, limbed what was left, and created a corridor between the two pastures. It takes some getting used to for the horses, but they've figured it out now, and can get to the back field and back to the barn on their own. And since Harley doesn't like crossing this same brook on the trail, I figure this will be great for their trail riding skills since he's now crossing it several times a day. I ring a cow bell to bring them in for their hay cubes morning and night. Here's what it sorta looks like from the satellite image:


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## avjudge (Feb 1, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> I also forgot to mention how much I appreciate my 12 foot wide center aisle! . . . the vet and farrier appreciate the extra room to work and it feels nice and roomy.


In a northern climate, a roomy aisle is _such_ a great thing. My family kept horses here for years with just a run-in shed, and hay stored and delivered monthly by a neighbor for storage on pallets under a tarp. We did OK, but I always longed for the indoor space we had when we had use of a (different) neighbor's barn in the winter.

Fast-forward 20 years, and with a move "home" after retirement approaching, my husband & I had a 36x24 center-aisle barn - Horizon pre-fab, which worked well since we weren't living here then so could only oversee construction in short bursts - put in last summer, and actually housing the horses barely makes the list of its planned uses (though it has two stalls). The reasons for the barn are: (1) a place to store a full winter's worth of hay; (2) storage for feed & tack, so it's out of the house's garage & storeroom; and (3) protected WORK SPACE for bad/cold weather.

With #3 in mind I put in lots of windows on the southern (front) exposure. While we don't have horses yet (and with the amount of work we have to do on the house it might not be this year), the aisle already proved useful as a work space when we pulled the cut unsplit firewood inside just before the first heavy snowstorm last winter, and later split and stacked it in the barn aisle. (Yeah, we're procrastinators.) It really was a pleasant place to work on a sunny winter day.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I agree avjudge! That wide center aisle makes it pleasant to be in the barn, even in extreme temperatures! I really bundle up when I have to go the barn in the middle of a blizzard. But once I get inside, I can loosen my scarf and take off my hood. It's a very nice space to be in, even if it's not exactly warm. I often linger a little with the horses on those days. I have a bench with storage underneath against one wall, and keep all my fencing supplies there, as well as a few blankets. I thought I'd spend lots of time just lounging in my tack room, and put a nice, padded bench in there. HAH! Who was I kidding. I never "lounge" in the barn. I may sip on a beer in the evening, while shoveling manure, but I almost never sit down. 

I never mentioned lighting. I do like my windows - though they're not huge, they provide enough natural light to make it pleasant. But I also had electric lights (LED encased in glass encased in a cage) installed in each stall, two in the center aisle, and one in the tack room, with another in the spare stall. The equipment bay has ridiculously bright lights though! So when the vet comes to float their teeth, I open the doors between the barn and equipment bay and face the horse towards the equipment bay for great lighting. I also have outlets in front of each stall, they come with a cover for safety. And I had them placed low enough that the horses wouldn't mess with them. Very important if you're going to be using heated water buckets in the winter! 

Sky lights would have been awesome. But then there are advantages to having a cool, dark barn in the summer. My stalls are also facing north, which is not ideal, but again, a plus on hot summer days. There was just no possible way to put them on the other side of the barn while allowing the horses to have access to the paddock. And frankly, when it's -39 C, no matter which way the stalls face, it's darn cold everywhere!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

On hay storage: yes, in an ideal world, I would have a separate building. But that's an additional expense AND a hassle when there's 5 feet of snow on the ground, 4 months of the year (which happens to be when you need hay the most). I am extremely careful about the hay overheating, and actually go in and check it daily when we first stack it. It is staggered and space is left between bales. But again, this is not ideal. Still, it sure makes it easy to throw down the hay for the week without having to set foot outside in the frozen tundra! I have enough room for all my hay, in fact, I figured out in June that I had about 100 bales too many, so I sold it to replace it with fresh. I still have about 12 bales and am not feeding hay right now, so we'll cut back a little on this year's order.

Since I'm on the topic of snow, I'd add that if you're going to build dutch doors that lead into a paddock in a northern climate, be aware that on some days, those doors will get snowed in. My contractor wanted to build them so they would open INTO the stalls. I said no way, I'd rather shovel them out. Imagine a horse in a rush to exit its stall and you trying to push the door inward! Luckily, a combination of the overhang, the dominant winds, and the slope up to the barn have created a little hollow in front of their stalls so very rarely did I have to shovel them out. But if all that had been different, and I'd have had to shovel out the stall doors after EVERY storm, that would have gotten quite tiring. You can sort of see how the snow would pile up at the edge of the overhang, and around the stall entrances in this photo:


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

I just wanted to stop in and say WOW, your barn is beautiful! I hope to have something similar one day, as up until now, I have always had my horses in a pole barn that was shared with a roofing company and all of my stepdads toys. One day...


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Acadianartist said:


> On hay storage: yes, in an ideal world, I would have a separate building. But that's an additional expense AND a hassle when there's 5 feet of snow on the ground, 4 months of the year (which happens to be when you need hay the most).


I'm pondered the same thing for our future barn. I'd like the hay to NOT be in the same building due to the risk of fire, but it's _such a hassel_ when it's not in the same place. Hubby and I were talking about even doing a concrete "room" of sorts in/next to the barn that would help separate things a bit. Still wouldn't prevent a fire from spreading but maybe would slow it down. Or maybe even a sprinkler system in the hay area. 

......it's helpful that my hubby is a project manager for a residential homebuilder so he has lots of ideas! :-D


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ClearDonkey said:


> I just wanted to stop in and say WOW, your barn is beautiful! I hope to have something similar one day, as up until now, I have always had my horses in a pole barn that was shared with a roofing company and all of my stepdads toys. One day...


Hope you get it someday ClearDonkey! But know that I am middle-aged (near 50), and had my first horse when I was about 12 in a 12 x 12 shed behind the house without electricity or running water. It was utter madness to expect a child to carry buckets of water over snowdrifts (not even exaggerating, I remember wearing snowshoes to the barn and trying to balance two buckets of water), to the barn several times a day. I waited a long, long time to have this barn. This is the luxury of being at a certain point in your life when you can do this. Some people my age buy campers. Some buy boats. Some go on cruises. I built a barn.  And I'm loving every single minute!


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## avjudge (Feb 1, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> . . . I am middle-aged (near 50), and had my first horse when I was about 12 in a 12 x 12 shed behind the house without electricity or running water. . . I waited a long, long time to have this barn. . .


Wow, this sounds familiar! :mrgreen: 
First horse at 13, elderly neighbor's barn in winter/pasture-only in summer until we lost use of that, then run-in sheds (no water or electricity) in summer & winter pastures. We wonder if carrying the water (after I left for college/grad school & on) aggravated autoimmune problems my mother had in her hands, and insufficient water likely contributed to her horse's wintertime death from colic. Now I'm in my mid-50s, built barn with water and (eventually; the conduit from house is there) electricity.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

avjudge said:


> Wow, this sounds familiar! :mrgreen:
> First horse at 13, elderly neighbor's barn in winter/pasture-only in summer until we lost use of that, then run-in sheds (no water or electricity) in summer & winter pastures. We wonder if carrying the water (after I left for college/grad school & on) aggravated autoimmune problems my mother had in her hands, and insufficient water likely contributed to her horse's wintertime death from colic. Now I'm in my mid-50s, built barn with water and (eventually; the conduit from house is there) electricity.


Honestly, I don't know how my poor horse survived there. He was alone too, because I couldn't convince my parents that horses needed company. It was a sad life for him, and my parents were terrified of him, so never went near the barn. I don't know what they were thinking. This is why I tell parents who are non-horsey, but have a horsey kid, to just board. Horse-crazy 12 year olds are really good at convincing parents they can do everything (I know I was)! But the reality is that a lot of times, the horse suffers. 

So yeah, not doing that again! Nor would I want my daughter to do it. That said, she has no idea how spoiled she is to be able to keep her horse in this barn and have her mom oversee things.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

So glad to see that everything worked out well with your barn. I remember following the progress last year on this forum, as I was building a similar barn around the same time.

To comment on some of your observations...

*Well planned layout*: I would put that as first on the list. Everything else flows from that. I put quite a bit of thought into planning my build and, like you, it paid off.

As you have seen, "layout" is much more than just how many stalls you are going to have. Placement of the barn itself, door placement and type, hay loft access, paddock access, manure disposal, drainage - even trailer access/parking are all part of layout. 

Anyone planning to build a barn should carefully consider how it is going to be used. Not only now, but in the future and through all seasons and weather conditions. 


*Concrete floors (and frost wall):* I build a pole barn design, so a frost wall wasn't necessary. A traditional frame structure would need a frost wall which does add to the cost. Both designs have their pros/cons.

I realize many people are against concrete flooring. Where I live (as opposed to where I built my barn) most commercial stables have concrete flooring (with rubber mats and bedding on top). I know of literally hundreds of horses in these barns - from hacks to western pleasure, to trail horses, to fancy show horses. Most locations have very little "turn out" opportunity. This is a very populated area where space is at a premium. I'm sure there is the odd horse that has a problem as no situation is ideal for every animal's personal genetics. I think it is a vast overstatement to call this type of setup "cruel" or generalize it as endangering a horse's health. In the end, everyone has to do what works best for them. However, it is still better to get some verified information on the topic rather than rely on "my trainer says" kind of advice. To be clear - I'm not accusing you or anyone in this thread of doing that. Just pointing out that so much in the horse world is done based on poor information that is "heard" from others.

*Drainage:* You did it right. Very important to have a pitch to your pour so the water drains. This applies even if you have drains. I was originally considering a channel drain in my barn. This would have been down the middle and the slab would have been pitched to the drain. Comments from others here and the big cost of such a system changed my mind. Yes, a drain that brought all water away from the barn would have been nice, but it is overkill. Then there is the possibility (inevitability?) of the drain clogging. 

My pole barn has a concrete slab floor. That raises the floor about 3-4" from the surrounding area. The surrounding area is also graded so all water runs away from the barn (very important). Like you, that makes a drain a luxury that I don't miss.


*Overhang:* Isn't it great? My setup/needs are a little different than yours. I don't have paddocks or turnout adjacent to the barn. My overhang is also over the outside dutch-doors and extends 8 feet. I also extended my slab floor by that amount. This gives me an additional "aisle" on the side of the barn. Very convenient to access the horses from that side in bad weather. 

Interesting that the builder extended your trusses. Typically, an overhang is done as a shed roof, extended out from the main roof without trusses. Would you share an outside photo of your barn? I'm interested to see what it looks like.


*Frost free hydrant:* My weather isn't as bad as yours. We still get some brutal winters in upstate NY with plenty of single digit temp days. If your water line comes up through the foundation, it is likely more trouble than it is worth to change it. If you can access the area where the line goes into the ground, it shouldn't be that big a project to replace the hydrant. (BTW - it isn't enough to just turn off the water supply. Don't forget to also open the outlet side in the barn. That will minimize the possibility of freezing.)


*Sandy Arena:* Funny you mention that as a "dream." I don't have paddocks, but I built a very large arena with sand footing. I do like it. However, no footing is perfect. Sand does drain very nice, but I still get some pooling in heavy rains. There is also run-off. Heavy rain finds a way to wash away sand in some areas. Horse traffic can increase that problem (creating "riverbeds" for the water).

We do turn out our horses in the arena. What I quickly learned is that there can be NO HAY in there. Sand and hay tend to mix into a "mud" of its own. Very nasty and difficult to clean. Not that dirt is necessarily any better. Just that sand is not the be all-end all for paddocks. I'm not sure there is a good solution - horses are very hard on paddocks. ...unless your paddock is multiple acres of thick grass. 


*Ventilation Fans:* I don't have them either. While every situation is different, this does come back to planning. I have 12x12 sliders on each side of my center aisle. I placed my barn in such a way so the prevailing winds go right through the aisle. My hayloft has an opening at both sides plus a functional cupola. If my placement was rotated 90 degrees, fans may have been necessary. It is always helpful to include nature and local topography into the planning process.


*Metal Roof:* I ended up going with a shingle roof. Mainly because of aesthetics (personal opinion - plus it matches my house). A deciding factor was cost - it ended up (in my case) costing about the same. Location will play a factor in the noise level, as well construction method. I can see how the noise might bother some and not others. Anyone considering the options should try to find barns with both styles of roofing and decide for themselves. 


*Insulation*: Climate definitely plays a role. Unless you plan on human living space, I agree that insulation only introduces problems (and cost) while providing little/no benefit. If you are "sealing" your barn from the outside and heating/cooling the space, then you would need insulation. Without active heating/cooling, insulation is pointless. When using a metal roof, there are some methods of insulation which are supposed to provide benefits, but I have seen good arguments both for and against the practice. Again, I agree climate is an important factor.



Again, congratulations on your build. So glad to hear it worked out the way you wanted.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Hi Tazmanian! Great to hear you're happy with your barn as well! I remember the whole center aisle drainage conversation. Glad it all worked out for you! 

You asked for photos of the exterior. Here they are. There were actually two sets of trusses: one set of trusses that were longer (for the 24 feet that spans the barn side of the building) and the other set which was made just to fit over the building (another 24 ft). I originally wanted posts for the overhang. My contractor advised against this. Mainly because horses will rub against posts, potentially pushing them, and destabilizing the structure. I trusted him on this. While having two sets of trusses was probably not the cheapest way to go, the whole barn was UNDER budget and on time! So really, we were very happy with the results overall. And it feels like a really solid barn. 

Photos:


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I had horses stalled overnight on concrete for 10 years with zero issues. We just made sure there was plenty of bedding, and in the winter, used the 'deep litter' system where you remove solids and unfrozen wet spots, and put more bedding over the top as needed. It would be about 18 inches thick by spring, but was warm and soft and very little odor, which was further mitigated by the fact that we left the end doors of the barn open in all but the -40 F windchill days, and the stall windows were always open. Lots and lots of horses do just fine on concrete. My current situation is a loafing shed with a concrete floor (old cattle barn). Ideal? No. But so far no issues for any horses that have lived there, and there have been horses in that field for 30 years, all happy and sound. They have a sheltered area with cornstalk and strawbedding under the overhang for a place to lie down, but inside by the feeders, water tank, and loafing area is just concrete. 

Love your barn! Thanks for sharing!


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

Very cool. Your photo definitely makes it clear how the trusses were needed. (Side note - my pole barn roof does not use trusses).

Interesting about the idea of rubbing on the posts. I see the point. Even if the engineering concern is mitigated, your setup still has a much "cleaner" look for a turnout situation. (Another side note - my support poles are 4ft into the ground and everything is connected to the rest of the barn with poles 4feet into the ground. I don't think horses rubbing would compromise the structure, but I'm glad I don't have to find out.)

Since I don't have turnout adjacent, that wouldn't be a concern for me. My setup is more of a standard "shed roof" setup. My photo is from the past winter - taken right after I finished most of the electrical work (no fun running electric in a barn when the temps are under 10F). 

I have just had some grading done around the outside to clean things up. The frost free hydrant can be seen off to the right of the photo. Next project will either be running pex to each stall for water buckets or installing a flooring material (probably some type of tile system). I love the concrete but hate the way it looks.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

On the metal roof issue, I'm wondering if those who find them noisy have a full wooden structure underneath them. Ours is basically a wooden roof with metal nailed on top. No metal can be seen from the inside. Maybe they also used some kind of liner, because I see it inside the barn, on the inside of the outside walls in the unfinished stall. 

And about the frost free hydrant - yes, I'm thinking about getting an estimate for installing one. Unfortunately, there is a full concrete floor, but there is an opening for the pipes to go underground of course. Not sure if it can be done or not, but it doesn't hurt to ask. And yes, I also open the tap on the inside to let out any trapped water. It does work well, but I've still had to take out the hair dryer a few times, and even haul water out to the barn some days when I forgot to turn off the water on a cold night.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Tazmanian Devil said:


> Very cool. The photo definitely makes it clear.
> 
> Interesting about the idea of rubbing on the posts. I see the point. Even if the engineering concern is mitigated, your setup has a much "cleaner" look for a turnout situation.
> 
> ...


Wow, LOVE your barn! Yes, that overhang is really nice. That's what I had in mind too. I bet you use that space for all kinds of things! But I wanted my horses to be able to use it as shelter for turnout, and I leave the dutch doors open anytime they're turned out so they can come into the barn. 

Your barn is gorgeous! I actually prefer the look of wood over metal, but didn't want the maintenance that comes with wood, so metal was the logical choice. Not a fan of concrete either, but it sure is easy to keep clean.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

Acadianartist said:


> Wow, LOVE your barn! Yes, that overhang is really nice. That's what I had in mind too. I bet you use that space for all kinds of things! But I wanted my horses to be able to use it as shelter for turnout, and I leave the dutch doors open anytime they're turned out so they can come into the barn.


And that's the beauty of it. There is no one "right" way. Different needs call for different solutions. 



> Your barn is gorgeous!


Thank you! (I really like yours as well). 

I had a definite idea of what I wanted my barn to be in both form and function. It took me years to find the right "package" (even if it was over my original budget).



> I actually prefer the look of wood over metal, but didn't want the maintenance that comes with wood, so metal was the logical choice.


I'm with you 100% on the maintenance issue. Wood needs to be stained every 2-3 years (just like my log home). Winters can be especially hard on the exterior finish. I bought a paint sprayer and did the initial staining myself (a few hours one day to wash the exterior and then one full day with a group of friends to stain). Not sure I will be able to do it next time... prep work on an already stained/sealed barn is not easy. I couldn't believe the cost my local painter quoted. Ouch.

My house on the property is a log home. The barn was stained to match the home (although it will take the next stain coat to be dark enough to fully match). For _my situation_ metal just wouldn't be the right "look." There's a specific "aesthetic" I want to maintain. Hard to explain, but if you saw the property layout it would make sense. 

Again, different needs = different solutions.



> Not a fan of concrete either, but it sure is easy to keep clean.


I'm a concrete fan for the same reason you are a metal fan. Not only cleaning but maintenance. Concrete is zero upkeep. Also more sanitary - A little bleach and a pressure washer... five minutes later you can perform surgery.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

Acadianartist said:


> On the metal roof issue, I'm wondering if those who find them noisy have a full wooden structure underneath them. Ours is basically a wooden roof with metal nailed on top. No metal can be seen from the inside. Maybe they also used some kind of liner, because I see it inside the barn, on the inside of the outside walls in the unfinished stall.


There are different methods of metal roof construction/design. I'm sure you are correct about it affecting noise levels.




> And about the frost free hydrant - yes, I'm thinking about getting an estimate for installing one. Unfortunately, there is a full concrete floor, but there is an opening for the pipes to go underground of course. Not sure if it can be done or not, but it doesn't hurt to ask. And yes, I also open the tap on the inside to let out any trapped water. It does work well, but I've still had to take out the hair dryer a few times, and even haul water out to the barn some days when I forgot to turn off the water on a cold night.


It will be worth the investment. That said, make sure you find someone who really knows their stuff. It needs to go down below the frost line. In my area, that's three feet. Up by you, it might be four feet. As long as they can access to that point, it is doable. You just don't want someone who takes a shortcut and doesn't install it deep enough. When a "frost-free" valve does freeze, it can ruin the valve and you have to replace the whole thing. That happened to me last year with a frost-free sillcock on the house. The frozen valve almost caused a flood inside. Fortunately, the basement wasn't finished at the time and I could easily access everything.


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## avjudge (Feb 1, 2011)

Taz - BEAUTIFUL barn! Nicer proportions than mine (too squat to my New England eye), but I went wide (36') to have the center aisle and full rooms on each side. 

I also love wood siding and will be putting a wood floor (2" rough-sawn, probably local hemlock) in the center aisle and utility bay. I've noticed on the neighbor's barn, and the run-in shed I painted 25+ years ago, that paint lasts way longer on an unheated building than on a heated, occupied house with its moisture migration issues. And if not, the most common old barn exterior around here seems to be bare weathered wood. Our other run-in shed, bare-naked T111 from the '80s, is still doing OK. So I'm not too worried.

I still haven't done the wiring for my barn - I had planned to do it this summer but I think the flooring comes first, and with getting the household squared away after the move I'm not sure wiring will happen until next spring - but I am sure I won't be doing it in the winter. I'm impressed, Taz!

AA, I hope you are able to straighten out your water problem. Cold spells are miserable enough without having your water go out on you, too. (My recent experience is losing my dishwasher for a week when it froze up one cold blustery night in 2015 - a day for the ice & a week because I pulled it out, sealed the wall/floor junction properly, & added a skin of insulation board behind it. I hope that never happens again, though now it will be the new owners benefiting.) We still haven't had reason to use our barn hydrant, so I've got my fingers crossed that we don't have any unforeseen problems.

We put our barn on the front part of the footprint of this house's original barn (gone since the 1930s) - we couldn't set it farther back because of the well location. It's worked great for storing our stuff while we merge households, and as I wrote before for splitting & storing firewood; we'll see (next year??) if it works as well as I hope for horses. So since Taz posted barn pics on this thread, I'll throw up mine - past & present:


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

avjudge - thanks for the kind words. You have a really nice barn. The size, color and style definitely fit well with the surroundings.

I'm not sure our proportions are that different. Mine is just a 36x36. Six 12x12 bays (three stalls, tack room and two open for equipment storage) with a 12 ft center aisle. My roof pitch might be a little steeper than yours. I think the biggest differences you are seeing are the angle of the photo and the overhang. That shedroof really changes the "visual lines" of the structure.

You do have a point about heated temp controlled buildings and exterior surface wear. I think that may apply in your situation more than mine. You seem to have quite a bit of wind breaks around your barn. My barn (and home) are in the middle of a wide open area near the top of a hill (in hilly country). I get cooked in the sun all summer and sandblasted by the wind all winter. We get some serious wind and it really does a job on exposed surfaces.

That's why I believe planning is so important. I had to include my local climate into my long term maintenance budget as it has a major effect. 

On electric, consider using EMT (metal conduit) if your local code allows for it. Mice cannot chew through it. Even if you are doing it yourself, it isn't that​ hard to learn how to bend pipe.


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## avjudge (Feb 1, 2011)

Joe - I didn't realize that was 36' wide; the photo angle and roof pitch do make a big difference! What is your pitch? Ours is 8:12, which is similar to the house and plenty steep enough to shed snow with the smooth metal roof, but I'm used to seeing the 12:12 so common in Boston (including the 1880ish carriage house at our old place) and New Hampshire and I find that steeper pitch more visually appealing. Or taller sidewalls would also improve the proportions.

I would have loved to have 36x36 instead of my 36x24 but was talked down by my dad & husband. We did position it far enough forward that we can just squeeze a 12' addition on the back before hitting the absolute minimum distance to the well. As it is, with two stalls on one side and one open bay plus tack room on the other, that open bay is going to have a lot of claims on its space! 

I agree that overhangs change the visual effect. We didn't have a use for one as the barn is squeezed in next to the hillside with a roadway (vehicle access to the back of the yard) rather than paddocks alongside the barn on the stall side, and a slope down to a sunken garden on the other. The horses will probably be fenced away from the barn to keep the yard less horsey (read, "so I don't have to clean as much manure to keep the house un-stinky" :lol, and the existing run-in sheds (one is up the hill, the other across the road) serve the purpose that most overhangs do.

(Of course, now I might have a use for an overhang on the east/righthand side of the barn if I want to put my pigeon aviary there. You can see the story of my unexpected adoption of a white "dove" in the Officialish Chicken Thread - a bit of a thread hijack I'm afraid, but hey, it's a bird.)

And yes, the south side gets a lot of sun, but both barn and house are tucked in a bowl that protects from the worst of the wind, and that probably will help protect the paint.

The roof talk reminds me (to get back on topic!) that I was going to chime in with my experience with my metal roof. Our roof is over a thin layer of insulation - the "foil/bubble wrap" sort - over purlins, and I was in there during a real downpour this June and it was definitely loud. There was a big difference in noise level between the loft (LOUD) and ground level (kinda loud), though even in the loft I didn't find it an obnoxious noise. I don't have a horse in there to ask his opinion of it!

But what really caught me by surprise was the violence with which the snow leaves the roof, and the distance to which it's launched. During or after a snowfall the snow will accumulate on the roof until it suddenly lets go. Fortunately, other than one rose shrub which was in part flattened, the area it lands isn't used for anything, but if I'd planned to let the horses hang out alongside the barn it would present a possible danger. (I'm happy that the snow comes off - it's just the force behind the fall that surprised me.)

As for wiring, I was planning on putting it in conduit. I've done household wiring, nothing with conduits, but it seems doable. I've read the code and it seems to call for plastic (or - what's the word? - nonreactive(?) metal which sounds expensive) conduit in animal housing - a requirement due to the expected ammonia fumes from dense animal housing, which wouldn't apply in reality to a small properly-cleaned barn, but the code doesn't seem to make any exception based on size. There's a non-binding opinion online, out of Washington State I think, advising their inspectors to use judgment when applying it to backyard stables. I'm hoping I can find the same attitude here, as I'd rather have metal than plastic, since I don't trust plastic in the cold or for protection against the chewing critters in our woodsy environment (mice, chipmunks, squirrels - gray, red, and flying - porcupines . . .).

Anne


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

avjudge said:


> Joe - I didn't realize that was 36' wide; the photo angle and roof pitch do make a big difference! What is your pitch? Ours is 8:12, which is similar to the house and plenty steep enough to shed snow with the smooth metal roof, but I'm used to seeing the 12:12 so common in Boston (including the 1880ish carriage house at our old place) and New Hampshire and I find that steeper pitch more visually appealing. Or taller sidewalls would also improve the proportions.


I'm 99% sure I have a 9:12 roof pitch. If you are used to a 12:12, 8 or 9 is going to seem strange.



> that open bay is going to have a lot of claims on its space!


Doesn't matter how big you build. It's never enough. "Stuff" manages to replicated and fill all available space. I started off with just a house. When I picked up an ATV, I realized I needed a garage. That 2-car garage because filled pretty quick. Then I needed a place for the horses. Picked up a pre-fab 3 horse shedrow barn. When I built the ring, I realized I needed a bigger ATV to handle some of the work, Then came a small tractor (and implements. that's when I decided I needed a full size barn (which I always wanted). Somehow, I still don't have too much extra space. 



> I agree that overhangs change the visual effect.


An overhang is definitely situation dependent. The overhang side of my barn faces my house. They are about 500' away from each other. Between the house and barn is my ring.

I put some lights in my overhang and leave the barn doors open. This lets me keep an eye on the horses when they are in their stalls. The lights make everything look very cool at night.  The concrete walkway outside the stalls keeps everything dry (no mud). I can hang tack outside the dutch doors and saddle up easily without needing to go in to the barn. In my particular setup, it provides both aesthetics and functionality. As they say, your mileage may vary. 




> And yes, the south side gets a lot of sun, but both barn and house are tucked in a bowl that protects from the worst of the wind, and that probably will help protect the paint.


Wind blasting the elements against a painted/stained wood surface - don't underestimate the effect. Your "bowl" is a big benefit.



> But what really caught me by surprise was the violence with which the snow leaves the roof, and the distance to which it's launched.
> 
> 
> > Interesting. I would guess that is a property of a metal roof. The metal is much smoother than a shingle. I have never seen that kind of snow sliding from a shingle roof. I have seen it on those vinyl structures (we have one at a local commercial barn). As soon as the thaw comes, massive chunks of snow start sliding off.
> ...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Tazmanian Devil said:


> > But what really caught me by surprise was the violence with which the snow leaves the roof, and the distance to which it's launched.
> >
> >
> > > Interesting. I would guess that is a property of a metal roof. The metal is much smoother than a shingle. I have never seen that kind of snow sliding from a shingle roof. I have seen it on those vinyl structures (we have one at a local commercial barn). As soon as the thaw comes, massive chunks of snow start sliding off.
> > ...


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## avjudge (Feb 1, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> I'll add a third voice to this  I worried this might happen, but it didn't. Small amounts of snow slid off regularly. There were never any big avalanches. . . The horses got used to the idea that there was a line where the overhang would drip when the snow melted and just avoided that line.


Yes, I'm not sure just how dangerous it would actually be - because it always slid off within a day of a storm so (at least when I saw it) it was always still dry/fluffy or slushy, _not_ icy (which is the really dangerous form) when it slid. It buried itself deeply when it hit the ground, and that was so far from the side of the barn (implying a lot of sideways momentum = a _fast_ slide), but that was in similarly unconsolidated snow - so while I'm sure if you were under it you might get knocked down by a big WHOMP of snow hitting you, you probably wouldn't be injured or knocked out. I just didn't want to test that hypothesis!

It certainly never stuck around on the roof long enough to drip. Long before it melted to that degree, it would all be on the ground. 

Again, this is all 8:12 slope smooth metal roof, so really optimal for sliding snow. In my previous place in the city I couldn't park on one side of my drive in the winter because the neighbor's house, right next to it, was 2 1/2 stories with a gambrel roof and asphalt shingles. The snow stuck to the shingles on the steeper/outer parts of the roof (way steeper than 12:12) for days after a storm, and when it came off it was in icy sheets of melted/refrozen snow ("frozen granular" in ski-area-speak!). It dented my car roof once (fortunately a wide dent that popped right out) and I learned my lesson.


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