# UGH! Gunner horse dies in "training". Stupid people.



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Horse dies after controversial training method | FOX5 San Diego

Really nothing else to say. Horrible.


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

Couldn't get video to play on mobile, but article said he started to wail and beat the horse. That is criminal, not controversial.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

:shock: 

I'm a little fuzzy on the whole story. This horse was tied to a fence or was tied up to the saddle? I've seen trainers tie to the saddle before, but NOT anywhere near tight enough to leave scars from a curb chain. The horse was in a round pen, 100% supervised and the horse was gradually introduced to the pressure and had used a curb bit before. It reminded me a lot of using side reins, teaching the horse to give to the pressure. I guess the method is only as cruel as the person carrying out the training. I can see how the above method could become very cruel, very quickly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

I was fuzzy also, but I couldn't watched the video. It seems once the horse got in some major distress, the trainer started beating it.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

from what the video says, it SOUNDS LIKE she was tied with her head sideways to the saddle, freaked out, was getting smacked with a strap by "trainer" and broke the straps tying her. freaked out, threw herself and smacked her head on the ground. bleeding from the ear, and nose. sounds like head trauma brought on by a total panic to me.


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

The video said tied to saddle. Was interviewing a trainer, that use to be at that facility, stated that every horse there had scars on their chins from that type of training, where the curb cut into the chin. said it was the way they trained all their horses. Rediculous!


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

AnalisaParalyzer said:


> from what the video says, it SOUNDS LIKE she was tied with her head sideways to the saddle, freaked out, was getting smacked with a strap by "trainer" and broke the straps tying her. freaked out, threw herself and smacked her head on the ground. bleeding from the ear, and nose. sounds like head trauma brought on by a total panic to me.


Yeah, just watched the video. I got that same impression too. :-|


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## GracielaGata (Jan 14, 2012)

What is a Gunner horse? All I got on a google search was some other horses colored similar to the one that died. 
Sounds like a stupid method of training, though I am no expert.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

There are better ways for a horse to learn to "give" to the bit-this should be charged as animal cruelty!


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

GracielaGata said:


> What is a Gunner horse? All I got on a google search was some other horses colored similar to the one that died.
> Sounds like a stupid method of training, though I am no expert.




Gunner is a horse from the gunner bloodline...Colonels Smoking gun...awesomely talented paint stud



This is absolutely disgusting. Sucks that it takes the death of ANOTHER horse at that farm for the authorities to investigate.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Another thread, which includes what some responsible people do:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/biting-up-checking-up-282858/


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## GracielaGata (Jan 14, 2012)

Roperchick said:


> Gunner is a horse from the gunner bloodline...Colonels Smoking gun...awesomely talented paint stud
> 
> 
> 
> This is absolutely disgusting. Sucks that it takes the death of ANOTHER horse at that farm for the authorities to investigate.


Okay, so it was what I found. I figured so, when all I found matched the deceased mare so well, and it is a very different marking. 
Thanks.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

*RIP Bella Gunnabe Gifted.*

SAN DIEGO, CA – San Diego’s horse community is up in arms over the death of a horse in the care of a trainer known for using controversial methods… methods some say is nothing short of torture. In the horse world, training techniques can come down to differences of philosophy; a heavy hand versus a gentler touch. However according to those who discovered the mortally wounded horse, they say it was the trainer’s use of brutal force that killed her.
“They literally try to drive the horse insane,” said horse trainer, Christopher Martinez, “in a case like this it’s almost as if these horses commit suicide. They are given no options.”
Martinez is describing a horse training technique that is so brutal in many cases, he says, the horse ends up dead, “it’s not a training technique it’s a torture type device.”
And that is allegedly what happened this weekend at the river valley ranch near the border. Trainer Mark Arballo was training a Gunner horse, with superb quality bloodlines, called Bella Gonnabe Gifted.
“He started wailing on it, beating on something,” said Bethany Wallace, another trainer at the ranch, “he was trying to pull and hit something with a long strap.”
Wallace is the one who found the mortally wounded horse, still tied up with what’s called a shank bit and it’s neck turned and tied all the way around to the saddle. The horse had apparently panicked and broke the straps.
“I saw Bella lying prostrate on the ground, tacked up and bloody faced,” she said. “Her nose was mutilated and bleeding out of her nostrils and one ear. She was unable to move – just groaning.”
“If they get tripped up they have no way of catching themselves,” said the owner of the ranch, Martha Torkington, adding “because all the balance is in their head they fall over and potentially hit there heads.”
The horse belongs to Torkington who was not at the property when the incident happened, she says the training technique known as “biting up” is common, but she says a trainer should never leave the horse alone during the process, “what happen here was, the absolute rule, you don’t walk away from a horse because too much can happen.”
But others say that is not the case – the practice is just plain animal cruelty, “in these cases they are so bound that curb strap is puncturing through the horses chin,” said Martinez, adding “every horse there ( at River Valley) has scars from it.”
Martinez used to train for Torkington, but he left the ranch after witnessing many what he called a climate of abusive behavior and the death of another horse last year from the same type of circumstances.
“None of us would ever ‘bit up’ a horse in shank bit,” said Martinez, “and both of these animals that died over there were in those type of tack.” Animal control is investigating.



Owner is on TV stations saying she didn't know this was happening, but apparently it is well known that Arballo's assistant Patrice Hohl had killed a horse last year named Shiner by this same method.

Also this horse was beaten by Arballo while she was on ground groaning in pain....


What price a ribbon and trophy...is something we all should be asking ourselves.

More can be found by entering horse's name in search bar...and there is FB page with AC report on Shiner too.

Sad...and heads need to roll!
http://fox5sandiego.com/2013/09/24/horse-dies-after-controvercial-training-method/#ixzz2fsCmMX90


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

There are 2 more threads on this posted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

What an ironic name is all I keep thinking about. 

This was a cruel PERSON, not a cruel PRACTICE. She could of easily been freed, but the trainer chose to beat her. 

Same method, only it being carried out by a decent human being. I don't see anything cruel or anything "just short of torture". 
Greg Robinson Horsemanship - How to bit up your horse Part 1 - YouTube
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Sorry FnB...didn't see you had a thread on this...will see maybe if can be combined with one I had started???




MOd note: Combined!!


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

I saw this earlier today, and there is now a FB page made for this horse.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I think that there is room for every method and no method is correct. I think clicker training is wonderful when used appropriately. The wrong person doing clicker training without the appropriate timing can just as easily get hurt as someone using all dominance methods. I also note that the horse in the promotional add had his ears back a portion of the time. That does not seem very "loving and spiritually appropriate" or whatever. People start talking about spiritual wellness of horses and I sort of stop listening, because it tends to ventures into the territory of being about the owners spiritual needs and not the horses. I am not saying that the methods don't work. I just think that for many people the idea of using treats to train a horse to rear is not a good idea and could easily result in a case of head smashed in. 

I think its horrible that a horse died using a training method. That should never happen. I also question someone who sent a horse, a valuable one at that, to a trainer who has killed a horse in the past with the same method. 

For once, I would love to see a trainer saying its not all one or another method. Its not all clicker or brennaman or tying your horses head to its saddle. There are different methods for different horses. The horse that died its very unfortunate but really the owner should have been minding the store a little better and the trainer should have never, ever left a horse unattended and anyone who beats a down horse needs their head examined. Thats just wrong, its not training its abusing.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

Look at the local trainers and theyll say that. The big names lile CA and branaman and them...that's how they make the $$ their training techniques are their signatures. But in their clinics I've seen heard them praise other styles and trainers for their methods. CA especially.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

It's no mystery that there are a lot of different training methods out there. One may suit a horse better than the next. 

But that's really not important here as there was one method being used and it was used irresponsibly. Never in my wildest nightmares or thoughts would I have thought a horse could die from being bited up.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Cynthia Royal said:


> ...There are no bits, whips or other pain-inducing devices used, only love, bits of food and lots of scratches. To watch an amazing video of Blanco and I on the beach and learn more, visit...


Sorry, but you lost me when you described bits as "pain-inducing devices". I have a gelding who doesn't care what you put in his mouth. He just gets the job done, which is why his original owner (my roommate from college in the 70s) called him "Trooper".

My mare is much more particular, which is why I've gone thru a dozen or more bits trying to find the design that best works with her mouth & mind FOR COMMUNICATION. None of the bits were harsh or cruel. But each one functioned a little different, and I've gone thru quite a few trying to find which helps her to understand and calm the best. That's because she was a fearful horse, and we've been working hard since Nov 2011 on putting her thru basic training again, and then on my riding her out and convincing her that death doesn't lurk behind every trashcan or every bend in a wash.

"_using methods that generate good feelings and trust, rather than submission through pressure and pain, so too can horses be taught in this way_."

If my amateur's methods - traditional methods, mostly, many of which have been learned from reading on HF and asking questions - were based on "submission through pressure and pain", then I would NOT have the "good feelings and trust" of my horses. But I do. Mia didn't stand there yesterday watching me pulling cactus spines out of her leg because of "submission through pressure and pain".

I have never 'bitted up' a horse, but plenty of good people have - and done correctly, they have had good results. That does not excuse the idiots or the cruel who do it wrong and torment a horse. A lot of horses have been ruined by the 'hugs and kisses' crowd, and a lot have been ruined by the 'cruel and abusive' crowd.

But for as long as horses have been around humans, there have been humans who worked with, understood and cared for their horses. The picture below was taken during World War 1, not far from the front lines. Army horse, army soldier, both trained the British Army way. Was the result "submission through pressure and pain"? I think not:








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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Cynthia Royal said:


> There is another way





bsms said:


> Sorry, but you lost me when you described bits as "pain-inducing devices".


I feel you two should start your own thread of training choices.


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

How awful!! Poor horse. :-(


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## darkiss4428 (Sep 6, 2013)

this is just wrong i was always tought you were to be easy on a horse not like baby it and it it get away with stuff but i was tought to get the best responce from the least amount of pressure so as to not hurt the animal i beleave anything can be tought to do anything without pain

also the owner seemed too happy to me or was it just me?


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

That poor filly. The Gunner line are all absolutely stunning, both inside and out. That trainer needs to be charged, at the very least. This was no freak accident.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

sounds like a trainer north of me. He killed one our mares. said she threw her self to the ground, and later a worker told us he had her tied hard and tight and left her alone to go talk to a prospective client for reining .


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