# What gene would allow for the white to trail under my mares chin?



## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

Ok so my mare is a sorrel tobiano her dad is tobiano her mom is overo. She has a large white blaze and I know its a separate gene causing it, but does the tobiano gene allow for white markings to river under the head and bottom lip? Or is this the work of another gene?


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

A picture


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Tobiano doesn't like white on the face or legs.

Face white is usually caused by splash or frame. Splash likes to put white on the underside of the horse, which includes the chin.

So, splash is likely causing the white on her chin.

Your pic isn't showing up on my phone, so I can't say for sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

.......


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Hmmmmm...

That's looks more like frame, to me (frame likes jagged edges whereas splash likes everything nice and tidy and rounded). 

Be interested to see what the others have to say. SunnyDraco, Chiila, Poseidon, and a few others are better with the white patterns than I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

*another pic*

A side view


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

It is sabino that likes to put that under jaw white & chin white . Many my Tobiano horses have had it. Also had a minimal overo stud colt OLWS negative From a Sabino/frame dam & crop out QH have that . His qualifing white was the white from his chin trailing up his jawline:faceshot:.

Lesson 7 - Splashing on White – overo

Sabino

http://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/6/Elsie_on_Equine_Color_Genetics-57978.pdf


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

Here is a body shot, you can see on her shoulder there is some roaning that has been there since she was a baby, her tail is solid. But she is clearly tobiano, excuse the knots this from right after our little summer rain


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

.............


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

It is not tobiano on the head, tobiano never puts white beyond the throat latch (maximum tobiano expression has the look of a turtle neck sweater that smoothly ends the white around the throat latch). All white on the face is caused by one or a combination of sabino, splash and/or frame. Overo is an outdated blanket term that simply means "white not caused by tobiano". Even the tobiano markings will be affected by "overo" genes, more horizontal shapes and hates white on the legs when frame is expressing, bottom heavy and clean edged markings with high white stockings (especially the front legs) when splash is expressing, messy and jagged edged markings with sharply pointed leg white (favors higher back legs) when sabino is expressing. Most pintos have multiple white expressing genes at play, some express louder than others and it is all random for how markings will express. Which is why cloned horses do not have identical markings, the white expression is random in how much or little is expressed. This is why frame horses can be completely solid, they have the gene for white expression but it is not expressing for us to see. Outcrop quarter horses are the result of the same genes that create socks and facial markings, they just had louder expressions of those genes. 

OP, for your mare, it is likely a combination of sabino, splash and frame adding their own bits of flare to her under jaw white. The splash is bottom heavy giving the lip white as well as being wide white over her nostrils, the frame is elongating the white horizontally connecting to a very horizontal white neck marking and the sabino is making the edges extremely messy with jagged edges and scattering white hairs all over.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

In your mare's case, it looks like frame that is causing it to me, however, it could also be some kind of untestable white pattern that has not yet been identified. 

My filly has white from her throatlatch to her chin and is n/n for frame, sb1 and all 3 splash patterns. She is n/TO. I've seen other tobianos with this as well - as far as I know, tobianos don't _usually_ javeface white or white under the chin, but I've known horses that are n/n for all patterns aside from tobiano that have it. She also has really loud face white. 

Not the best photo, but the only one I could find that really shows the underside of her face.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

I read this article not long ago that addresses face white and tobianos if anyone is interested. I can't remember if it talks about the white under the face or not though. 

Opening a can of worms |


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

I saw this is a follow up article from the same lady who posted on your link More on face white and tobianos | very interesting.


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

My mare had a solid palomino filly this year with two white legs in the back (like her dad) and a large white blaze just like my mares. No tobiano but that white face was for sure from her. Heres pics of her and her dad


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

Here are three pictures of my mares half sisters from the same stallion all with loud white faces as well.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Very pretty! I love paints that have brown eyes and a mostly solid face with a blaze. I guess it's bc of my 13'2hh pony, "Toma", (1970-2004, RIP), who was a sweetheart. After we retired from riding him, we would leave him at home and trailer everybody else, and he would stand at the gate and just cry. YA KNOW, the color doesn't make any difference in temperament, but we get these associations...


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## Hollymoon (Aug 13, 2015)

As you can see in the last picture of her sister she also has the white chin river going on


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