# Sugardine?



## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

Has anyone ever used sugardine to draw out an abscess, I have been struggling with a lame horse for 3 weeks now I have tried all sorts of things, but can't get an abscess to come out. now, on his sole, there appears to be a "bump" that wasn't there before, so I thought I might try sugardine in a poultice to see if I can get it to "pop". Has anyone had any success with this mixture?


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## irisheyes12 (May 19, 2008)

Sugardine is sugar or honey mixed with Betadine and increases the rate of healing, promotes healthy drainage, and reduces the amount of scarring of open wounds and draining abscesses. I highly recommend it and it works wonders on thrush as well.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

irisheyes12 said:


> Sugardine is sugar or honey mixed with Betadine and increases the rate of healing, promotes healthy drainage, and reduces the amount of scarring of open wounds and draining abscesses. I highly recommend it and it works wonders on thrush as well.


How would you use it for thrush? soaking it? or mix it in a bucket and apply with a brush?
Also, how much sugar and how much betadine?


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Sugardine is sugar and betadine solution and it works well for fungal hoof issues. I make a paste out of it so play with it. I then put that on either the sole to cover or on a gauze pad then apply to the sole. Cover and wrap with vet wrap followed by a duct tape boot to hold it all on. You can keep that on for 24 hours or til the boot falls off. 

Another good way to deal with a stubborn abscess is to soak in ACV(apple cider vinegar). I like to slip an old sock over the hoof(split to fit) then put the hoof in a hoof boot of some kind. Then pour the ACV in and the sock helps hold the liquid on the hoof as sometimes abscesses want to exit higher. You can do that full strength to half ACV half water. Test for skin sensitivity if you do use it full strength. Do that for up to 4 hours and it often will resolve the abscess.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

I once seen this mixture of sugar and betadine used
for a huge cut on a horse, they packed the injury and then wrapped it.

it was on APL. miami rescue place.


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

well I made the sugardine paste and packed his sole with it, then a wrapped 2 diapers around his hoof, covered with a plastic bag and duct taped it all up - - I'll leave it on for 48 hrs and see what happens-fingers crossed!!


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

i've never heard of sugardine - - i've always used icthammol 

i'm interested to see how it works!


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

His hoof seems to be bothering him more since I put on the poultice, it's been on just shy of 48 hrs, I'm taking it off tonight. A new farrier is coming to see him tomorrow, Jack Millman, I hear he is quite well known in farrier circles and is really good, so I hope he can make some recommendations. I feell so sad for my Rusty :sad:


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

might be that the abcess is now coming to a head ;-)

good luck!


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

O please, please, please I hope so!!!!!!!


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Either that or your padding was too thick or lumpy. Hard to say until you remove the boot and see how he feels. XX it resolves soon.


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

I removed it earlier, and he's still very lame, but I think I see a hole in his heel, I put some icthomol on it, farrier is coming tomorrow - fingers crossed that it's only an abscess


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

XX I bet it is an abscess.


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

Well, farrier canceled due to bad weather (snow!!! in Oct. geez!!) But the good news is, I have found a small hole starting to open on the bulb of his heel. I put some more Icthomol on and wrapped it up (in Whinney the Pooh Diapers-what humiliation for the poor guy) I really believe the sugardine mixture brought it to the surface, I am making some more tonight and I'm going to do another poultice on him (more Pooh diapers I'm afraid) He is starting to put more weight on it, I am soooo hoping the abscess "pops".


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Awesome! XXX it clears up for you.


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

sounds promising! fingers crossed!


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## barefoothooves (Sep 6, 2007)

I wouldn't recommend sugardine for thrush. Horses that tend to have trouble metabolizing sugar get thrush more often, so I would lean toward thinking that sugar would promote thrush, not cure it. It would work against the idodine. BUt, so far some people say it works on thrush. I just wanted to mention that it's possibly not the best for that purpose. 

Now for open abscesses, it works just fine.


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## Painted Ride (Jun 30, 2008)

what about the black drawing save??? that what we used on our horses when they had an abcess.. they do not sell it in the open but if you go to the pharmcay in a walgreens and ask for the black drawing save that smells exactly like tar...they should have it. it only costs $3.88/tube....this is what we have been successful with...*barefoothooves* whats your thoughts on this product?


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

icthammol is what you are talking about tbenitez - we've used it for abcesses for ages, although i don't know how it affects horses with sugar metabolic issues...

barefoothooves, that is a really interesting fact about sugar and thrush!


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## Painted Ride (Jun 30, 2008)

ooh thanks kickshaw! i feel dumb...at least i was using the right stuff!


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## barefoothooves (Sep 6, 2007)

Icthammol seems to work pretty well on metabolic horses, that I've seen. Sometimes it's just more important to change the diet if that's the case. I don't have any scientific proof that sugardyne would breed more thrush, but since it's more prevalant in metabolic horses, I'd just forgo adding sugar and go for something like Icthammol or epsom salts. ACV will also help draw out abscesses, but sometimes I think they just happen to open when they are ready, regardless of what you put on the feet. Warm water probably does more than the other ingredients, as it stimulates circulation in the whole foot, the other ingredients may just help prevent the water from breeding more thrush or in cleansing the opening when it finally pops. But it helps you feel better when you "do something" doesn't it? LOL And warm water does seem to help the horse feel more comfortable for a while, so go for it. As for creams and packing...may not really "draw out" the abscesses, but are great when it opens and may help cushion the foot to make them more comfortable in the mean time. Just be sure to change it out and let the foot air out some, they get too soft if kept constantly wet and are more prone to bruising.


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

The abscess finally presented itself through his heel bulb. The sugardine really seemed to expedite the process. It had been a month of Icthomol, poultice and soaking in epsom salt, but the sugardine brought it out in two days. Who knows, maybe it was on it's way out anyway and a coincidence, but I can't say enough good things about it right now, because at least I know what's what with his hoof now. He seems more comfortable, I have the Icthomol on it now as it is less messy! Hopefully it will drain soon and we can be on our way to recovery


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## Danvers (Nov 3, 2008)

I'm glad, as I'm sure your horse is, that the abscess vented. Although the relief coincided with the application of Sugardine, I doubt that it actually sped up the process. In my experience, it works well for treating minor wounds, but it seems to have little drawing or poulticing effect. (I'm a big fan of Animal Lintex for poulticing and drawing abscesses.)

Do follow up with Jack Millman on this and stay on top of it. Jack's an excellent farrier and educator, and I'm sure you'll be happy with him. Tell him that I'm wishing him well with his hip replacement!!


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

Thank you, I will, but I don't think I'll be seeing him for awhile-he's going to be "out" for about 4 mos. He suggested I use Icthomol, which is what I am using now. I originally started with Animalintex, I have some left, maybe I'll use it up.


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

OK - now what do I do.....I thought the abscess was going to "blow out" his heel bulb was swollen and there was blood right at the surface of the skin, I soaked, I poulticed - I haven't seen any real hole or discharge and now the skin appears whitish, no pus or drainage, still very tender for him though he is walking on it better. Is it possible that it drained and I didn't notice - I'm confused? Poor guy is stuck in a stall - I don't know how long to keep him there. We are pretty muddy still and I don't want to make it worse by letting him walk around in it - What should I do????


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

if it had drained, you would have noticed a big difference in his walking.

can you have the farrier out to see if he can help find the spot?


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

It was definitely erupting at his heel bulb - but it just seemed to disappear??? His heel bulb is sensitive to the touch, but he is standing on it better. I have to get him out of his stall walking, but it is so muddy I'm afraid of making it worse, and now that it's dark early I have trouble getting home in time to get him out in daylight hours - Argh!!!!


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

do you have an easy boot or anything?

...and there's always the aisle of the barn...;-)


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

servinator said:


> OK - now what do I do.....I thought the abscess was going to "blow out" his heel bulb was swollen and there was blood right at the surface of the skin, I soaked, I poulticed - I haven't seen any real hole or discharge and now the skin appears whitish, no pus or drainage, still very tender for him though he is walking on it better. Is it possible that it drained and I didn't notice - I'm confused? Poor guy is stuck in a stall - I don't know how long to keep him there. We are pretty muddy still and I don't want to make it worse by letting him walk around in it - What should I do????


It probably did blow out. Stall rest is not best for abscesses. I'd rather let them walk thru mud than leave them in a stall.  You can make a duct tape boot to protect it from the muck if you want. Heck the mud would prolly feel great on that heel.


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

I don't have an aisle the stalls just face the outside. My husband, the dear man spent the entire day filling the mud over with crusher run gravel. I soaked again and put another poultice on, there is a definite slit at the top of his heel bulb, but nothing coming out. After this poultice I think I'm gonna do a duct tape boot and let him out. The easy boot has a tendency to rub his heel, he's a hard fit, so I think that might make it worse, I tried that in the beginning, but he seemed uncomfortable.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

_My husband, the dear man spent the entire day filling the mud over with crusher run gravel._

Bless his heart!


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## Danvers (Nov 3, 2008)

servinator said:


> I soaked again and put another poultice on, there is a definite slit at the *top* of his heel bulb, but nothing coming out.



And therein lies the issue.... The reason abscesses evidence with severe lameness is not so much due to the fact that there's infection; instead, it's because the infection is "walled off"... it's basically pressurized. 

Once the abscess vents, the pressure is released, but the infection is not automatically resolved. This is especially true when the abscess vents at the top.... primarily because it's hard for things to drain uphill. 

Along with the uphill drainage problem, there's also the problem of time... A top vent is usually natural while a bottom vent is usually man-made. 

While the general horse-owning populace currently has a tremendous affinity for all things natural, it's not the best in this case. It allows the infection to meander around rather than taking a straight path, and it tends to drag on forever, allowing the ick to thicken and establish itself as a thick, sticky goo.

So... your horse has relief, because the abscess vented, but the situation is not likely resolved. You indicate that the area around the bulbs is looking white. That likely means the hoof is overly hydrated (probably was to begin with from the environment, and that was exacerbated by all the soaking and wrapping). Start drying the hoof capsule! Use topicals (Keratex hoof hardener, Venice Turpentine, pure gum spirits of turpentine, Hawthorne's Hoof Freeze, Crossapol, Betadine, Zenadine, a blow dryer, or whatever). 

Get a syringe and inject good (but mild) stuff into the opening—some sort of tamed iodine—betadine or zenadine—is probably best. Leave the area open when the horse is in a dry, clean environment. Try to protect it and cover it for turnout. 

A boot is probably not the best option for turnout, as it will tend to trap and promote moisture. Instead, seal the opening off with something productive that will adhere and hold. Hawthorne’s Sole Pack works well for this; it will go on kinda like Playdough, and it will usually be sticky enough to stay in place. Another option is to use a small piece of Animal Lintex, held in place with some good tape (think Elasticon, not Duct).

Hope this helps!


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## servinator (Oct 13, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice, I see more clearly what is probably going on - I knew it wasn't "over". I have Icthomol on now, but I let him out with a Duct tape boot. He's walking a lot better, but I am cautious because I think it is exactly like Danvers is saying. So basically what I do is toughen up the hoof and protect the vent from all the "yuck"? Will it then drain out the bottom??


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