# Dangerous rude behavior, please help!



## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

I have got a three or four year old Arabian cross, Pepper. 
When I got her she was very very unruly and dangerous. I worked her through that, wasn't too hard, she was a pipsqueak back then. But now she is a full grown, or close to full grown, horse. 

She started to rear up in peoples faces, jump the fence, bite, and chase people down. A couple of weeks ago she reared up and got me in the chest and she chased my bestfriend's mother out of the pasture. 
(we tell everyone now don't turn tail and run from her, walk calmly.) 

Pepper is smart as I don't know what. I've never let her get away with too much. 
She has been started under saddle in the last few months. She has had next to perfect ground manners, it's just recently. 

I'm just curious as to why she might be acting up... My dad says she is playing but I've never allowed her to 'play' like that, atleast not with people. Maybe it's my fault, a training gap or I've just been treating her like my baby, even worse she has something physically wrong... 
Any suggestions would be might helpful. 
Thanks!


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

That horse might kill someone.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

Either get rid of her, or get professional help before she kills someone.


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

It's not that it can't be done, maybe. Just that the amount that now needs to be done to correct the situation might be more than you would want to put her through.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

"I've just been treating her like my baby" That will get you in to trouble every time. You allow her into your space which makes her boss over you. Your space is the length of your outstretched arm. She is never to come in to that or you must move her out of it immediately. When you do this keep your feet planted. If you move the horse thinks it is moving you. In the herd a horse that is higher is the pecking order moves a lesser horse. Don't let that lesser horse be you. Get help if you need it. Sometimes one good lesson in retraining you may be all you need.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Just Ruthiey said:


> I have got a three or four year old Arabian cross, Pepper.
> When I got her she was very very unruly and dangerous. I worked her through that, wasn't too hard, she was a pipsqueak back then. But now she is a full grown, or close to full grown, horse.
> 
> She started to rear up in peoples faces, jump the fence, bite, and chase people down. A couple of weeks ago she reared up and got me in the chest and she chased my bestfriend's mother out of the pasture.
> ...


There is your answer! 
She is smart.
I have never let her get away with to much.

Letting her get away with _anything_ is enough for her to have no respect at all.

All the rearing and chasing is natural, they do it to each other when in a herd, but they have to learn that it is a definite* NO* when humans are involved.

This horse needs work, she needs to have her mind occupied, most of all she needs discipline whereby, _at the start_, she does not even dare to blink without permission.

This does not mean that she is beaten up but it does mean that she is corrected by being made to do whatever with a firm poke of the finger or being made to go back.

I set a horse up for correction, it is easy to do. I will have them in the stable, and make them stand still untied. The moment they move they are corrected by being pushed back to where they were. 
I will have them tied and if I walk to the other side of them I expect them to yield to me by moving over. 

As for her behaviour in the filed then she would certainly have the shock of her life if she even thought of behaving as she is. 
I would arm myself, preferably with a long lunge whip or my hunting whip, I prefer the latter as it is easier to hold unnoticed by the horse. 

The moment she got in my face then she would feel that whip across her front legs *hard.*
This will probably cause the reaction of her swinging away and possibly double barrelling out at you - which she would do in a herd. My follow up would be to get at least one or two lashes into her backside to let her know that I really mean for her to stop that nonsense.

_I do know what I am doing and am ready for their reaction, my actions are fast so there is* absolutely no doubt* in their mind as to my meaning it. _

This mare needs to go to an experienced trainer and _you need to go too_ so that you learn how to gain her respect.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

If that were my horse it be going to the sale barn and in a big hurry. Even if you get her straightened out she could revert back to nasty. Sorry i wont keep a horse like that too many nice ones around that need homes. I had one that went after my daughter when she was 4 years old. He was in the kill mode only thing that kept him from getting her was a fence between them. I got rid of him two weeks later had he hurt my daughter he would of been shot right then and there.


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## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm only a couple hours away from you. If you are interested, maybe I could help. I'd have to bring her up here for a while, though. I'm not a professional trainer, but I've handled my share of horses. From what you've posted, she's already past your abilities to handle. You'd have a hard time undoing things now by yourself. You could probably do it with the help of a trainer, but not alone. Once she's corrected and settled, you could probably handle her...if you get a little training as well.

If you are interested, PM me. We'll see if we can figure something out.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

We bought a seven year old TWH mare in October of 2011. She is an in your pocket, loveable, beautiful mare. HOWEVER, she has a dark side. She is a full fledge Im going to turn my butt and let you have it horse. Well, was.... She never really bothered me but she attempted severy times to get my husband. The one and only time she has ever tried kicking at me was in the pasture at feed time. She got too close to me so when I took a step toward her she turned her butt and started kicking. I ALWAYS carry a whip in my pasture at feeding time. I let her have it. I smacked her about 15 times on her hind legs till she spun her rump and faced me, calmly. As long as her rump was towards me and was kicking I was crossing those back legs with the whip. She has NEVER turned her rump towards me again or even come close to acting like she is getting in my personal space. Now, my husband on the other hand just so happened to get kicked square on the butt by her because he was filling her water bucket and he was in her "space". She didnt just fire off at him once or twice. But about ten times in a row. The only thing he had was rocks. So you started picking up rocks and slinging them at her till she turned around and faced him. Its not a game. When you enter a horses field it aint their territory. Its YOURS. When she starts this BACK HER DOWN. At whatever it may take to do. Be assertive, be strong, stand your ground. Now, if you are too scared of her to do that. Then send her to a trainer or get rid of her. I have had a horse rear up on me one time. This was while I was lunging a horse. He charged me and reared and I took my whip and for every second those front feet where he got the sting of the whip across those front legs. No, sometimes it doesnt come down to having to use a whip you can mearly show you arent afraid and you arent going to back down and ask them to move away by swinging a rope or waving your hands. But in either of my instances that didnt work. My whip was my way of saying "GET OFF ME NOW!!!"


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

I've started to carry a riding crop with me and a chained lead across her nose when I'm dealing with her. 
I've got a few people who are willing to help me out with her. 

I understand that many of you think getting rid of her might be a smart idea but I bottle fed her. I will do whatever I can to fix her. She just hasn't been nasty like this in a long time. 
I won't just sell her because there are too many nice ones around. Almost every horse I've ever owned has been a nasty butt face when I got them. You have to see the diamond in the rough. Just about anything can be made shiny. And this mare of mine is most deff something shiny, she has the personality (when she isn't be a total b), looks, movement, and just because she is my Pepper. 

--I never realized that my bubble in the arms outstretched though! Magic and my friend's horse Toby don't walk up on me like that, they never have. Once we moved Toby in Pepper started that crap though. I'll have to remember that for when I feed in the morning.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

A horse is a horse is a horse.....not a baby....even if you bottle fed her.....I do believe Clinton Anderson had to deal with a horse that behaved like yours and it was bottle fed too......I've never seen the DVD for it so can anyone else name that particular show and perhaps give the OP some more details?


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## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

Maybe I underestimated you. Hard to judge by the post, but since then I've read other posts by you on other threads.

If you need a hand, let me know. I don't charge anything, I just enjoy training horses.


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

Hey listen, I hope you'll take advice given here with a grain of salt. Your horse may indeed be dangerous, and there could be a million causes. You seem like a nice person and I'm sure that if you did anything to cause it it wasn't intentional. There would be little point in you asking for help if you had created a troubled horse on purpose.

If it were me and I wanted to try and work it out, I would seek out the expertise of the best in the business. For my money, the best guy I've seen out there when it comes to dealing with these kinds of problems is Buck Brannaman. I'm not a disciple, I follow like 10 different trainers, but that guy can fix a troubled horse.


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

thenrie said:


> Maybe I underestimated you. Hard to judge by the post, but since then I've read other posts by you on other threads.
> 
> If you need a hand, let me know. I don't charge anything, I just enjoy training horses.


You probably don't underestimate me too much. I don't want to overestimate that's for sure! That would suck really badly for me. 
I'll let you know probably sometime soon! Thanks so much for the offer! 

and yes I know that she isn't a baby, she is close to a 1000lb horse. She isn't my bestfriend, we can't go clothes shopping and she can't ride in my smart car. -But if she could I'd be down for the mall  
I'm just going to have to buckle down on her, being pushed around by a very large ballsy horse isn't a good idea nor is it fun. 

Do you guys think having a job might help? Like starting some training, lunging, etc? She always seems more pushy when I take Magic out with Toby for a ride. Maybe she is bored, or am I humanizing her a little too much again?


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

Ian McDonald said:


> For my money, the best guy I've seen out there when it comes to dealing with these kinds of problems is Buck Brannaman. I'm not a disciple, I follow like 10 different trainers, but that guy can fix a troubled horse.


Thanks! I'll look him up. I'm not a millionaire but I'd rather fix her issues than send her off to someone who has no idea or intention of helping her along.


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

Just Ruthiey said:


> Thanks! I'll look him up. I'm not a millionaire but I'd rather fix her issues than send her off to someone who has no idea or intention of helping her along.


You're welcome. Yeah you want to exercise caution in utilizing the services of those professed to be able to fix an aggressive horse. Many will more likely make things worse. That's not a jab at anyone here. :wink:


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

When you enter the pasture you are the "lead mare", she's trying to boss you around and doing it in a very dangerous way! At feeding time I take a buggy whip in with me, I have 4 horses and 1 boarded and they all stand back while I put the hay out....they know when it hits the ground they can have it but until then it's mine! Any other time if I go out in the pasture they know there is no shoving/kicking/pushing while I am in there otherwise I chase them off! Stay safe!


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

You talk about babying her and spoiling her....what do you mean by that? I bought my spotted saddle when she was two. My first horse to from ground up. I wouldnt trade her for all the gold in the world. She is my pride and my joy and nothing could ever pursuade me. I would go to the end of this world and back a million times to do what I thought needed to be done with her. I and most people around say that I spoil her. But here is how or what they consider spoiling her. She is in a 14 x 16 stall at night with 8" of sawdust and a thick layer of straw. She is blanketed 24/7 in the winter other than groomings and workouts. She is groomed everyday twice a day. Her mane and tail stay braided 24/7 unless I am going out trail riding. She has a tail bag in 24/7 and has fly spray on everyday and her fly mask during the summer. She gets her feet done every 5 weeks. She is seen by a vet twice a year for regular check ups. She has hay available (timothy/alfalfa) 24/7 year round. She gets sprayed off every day during the summer. Dadada. I could keep going. BUT she has the best ground manners. She will not under any circumstance come into your space. When you ask her to do something she responds that instance. She does not hesitate. Now, undersaddle we are still working on because I had to put her training on hold for two years. Is stuff like that you consider spoiling? Or is treats, hand feeding grain, lots in your pocket contact without your content to do so?


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

She has all of the necessities (as I call them), lots of hay, huge stall. But I've always given her treats by hand and grain as well. She got so bad as to chewing a hole in my leather jacket for peppermint patties, granted it wasn't on me, it was on the fence (not sure if that's a o crap my bad or a omgoodness Pepper, you rat!). 
She doesn't have terrible ground manners, well sort of, if I ask her to do something like back up, up the gate, bow, voice commands on the lunge line she will do them in a heart beat but when I'm just walking around in the pasture she globs all over me, or gets nasty. 
-However at feed time she doesn't, just a hand in front of her bucket and saying no keeps her at bay.

O and another question (SORRY!) Pepper likes to rip down my saddles off the fence when I'm tacking up another horse, she chews the leather or pushes it on the ground, stomps all over it and then is good. Is she being a jerk or would there be a reason for that?


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

The horse i got rid of i raised so he would replace my mare when her usefull days were done. I owned him for 8 years he was nasty from the time he was a youngster wasnt bottle fed the mare raised him. He was a beautiful horse 15.2 1/2 hands tall had it all gaits looks breeding but temperment was bad. He wasnt treated like a puppy dog he respected me but i could never trust him. My daughter was way more important then that horse staying here to replace my mare. I never regreted getting rid of him he was nasty and not trust worthy. I replaced him ten times over i have two nice tempered geldings well trained good looking and i dont have to worry when their going to be mean. So your shiny star aint worth your well being period. My horse i raised had it all but lacked one serious part of what i look for in a horses temperment. From your post shes never been that nice. Iv seen bottle fed horses who are monsters and not worth the time of day. I dont waste my time on ill tempered horses my well being is worth too much plus i have a family they come first. I love my horses and take the best care of them i can but if their mean their gone period.So do what you want but that horse really doesnt sound all that great.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

toosexy4myspotz said:


> You talk about babying her and spoiling her....what do you mean by that? I bought my spotted saddle when she was two. My first horse to from ground up. I wouldnt trade her for all the gold in the world. She is my pride and my joy and nothing could ever pursuade me. I would go to the end of this world and back a million times to do what I thought needed to be done with her. I and most people around say that I spoil her. But here is how or what they consider spoiling her. She is in a 14 x 16 stall at night with 8" of sawdust and a thick layer of straw. She is blanketed 24/7 in the winter other than groomings and workouts. She is groomed everyday twice a day. Her mane and tail stay braided 24/7 unless I am going out trail riding. She has a tail bag in 24/7 and has fly spray on everyday and her fly mask during the summer. She gets her feet done every 5 weeks. She is seen by a vet twice a year for regular check ups. She has hay available (timothy/alfalfa) 24/7 year round. She gets sprayed off every day during the summer. Dadada. I could keep going. BUT she has the best ground manners. She will not under any circumstance come into your space. When you ask her to do something she responds that instance. She does not hesitate. Now, undersaddle we are still working on because I had to put her training on hold for two years. Is stuff like that you consider spoiling? Or is treats, hand feeding grain, lots in your pocket contact without your content to do so?


You need a job? We're hiring! Lol!


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Youv made your own monster hand feeding treats and grain. My horses ever push me around i knock them a good one. I NEVER EVER hand feed makes for pushy nasty horses. I go into my pasture with my horses and they dont dare get in my space. Sounds like you mare needs a good attitude ajustment. Sounds like a spoiled brat thats rude and pushy. You created your own problems quite hand feeding treats. That horse would have a tough time at my place i knock the crap right out of her. She wouldnt push me around but maybe twice. Hand feeding = nasty pushy rude horses.You need some lessons on how to handle horses. From the sounds of your post your not too horse savy.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Look into this guy.....here is a wee snippet I got off YouTube.....


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

Alot of horses are nasty, just how they are. Kind of like getting a ram, once they realize they have horns they use em. 
But um thanks? I will indeed do exactly what I want... Opinions are just like butts, everyone has one. Idk what else to say to you without seeming rude, which I attempt to not do.

She isn't ill tempered, she is a spoiled rotten crap head. Glad you know when a horse isn't trust worthy but diamond in the rough.


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

spirit88 said:


> Youv made your own monster hand feeding treats and grain. My horses ever push me around i knock them a good one. I NEVER EVER hand feed makes for pushy nasty horses. I go into my pasture with my horses and they dont dare get in my space. Sounds like you mare needs a good attitude ajustment. Sounds like a spoiled brat thats rude and pushy. You created your own problems quite hand feeding treats. That horse would have a tough time at my place i knock the crap right out of her. She wouldnt push me around but maybe twice. Hand feeding = nasty pushy rude horses.You need some lessons on how to handle horses. From the sounds of your post your not too horse savy.


Do tell someone else their horse isn't all that great, go tell someone else they aren't horse savy. 

So please before I get more annoyed go harp someone else. Your in put is no longer nice.


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

I've got a few CA books, he really is quite wonderful!


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Hope you can get a handle on it soon. Horses can be very dangerous without even trying.

I "spoil" my horses to pieces ie...they are pampered and loved on - Biscuit gets miles of treats but not Sarge. Sarge gets a little pushy about them but Biscuit doesn't. 

If one of my horses kicked me or even threatened to kick me, I would whip him into the next year. I haven't had that problem with mine but I don't play.

I have always told my darling horses "if I can't kick your @$$ I will hire someone who can" and I mean that. I love them dearly but don't ever kick, bite, run at or in general try to dominate momma.

My former horse Red made the mistake of kicking at his new owner when she bought him as a yearling. Oh my stars...bad mistake on the part of Dashing Big Red. Margaret tore his butt up with a bull whip in a round pen. That horse has NEVER offered to kick anyone since. He was the sweetest tempered horse I have ever been around but she said he was pretty fresh when she got him. She had him for 6 years and raced him for 2. 

Best of luck with your horse. Make sure she KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt that YOU are the boss. 

Our horse Sarge is the dominate horse and he will often give Biscuit the evil eye to move him away if we are there (he loves all the attention for himself!) but if hubby growls at him and backs him up Sarge instantly obeys that human is the boss. That is what you want from her. Even in the herd she should recognize you as boss.


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## Just Ruthiey (Jul 12, 2010)

I'm slowly learning that she is going to need a good smack or a push... I just haven't ever had to do that with any of my horses, ever. 

I don't even use a lunge whip, and I use the crop for aids. 

It just kind of breaks my heart I've got to do it I guess


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## JustWingIt (Jul 29, 2012)

Think of it as tough love. If it doesn't stop now with a little bullying on your part, it'll just escalate and eventually it'll take more that just a little 'I'm boss' behavior from you to set her straight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Just Ruthiey said:


> I'm slowly learning that she is going to need a good smack or a push... I just haven't ever had to do that with any of my horses, ever.
> 
> I don't even use a lunge whip, and I use the crop for aids.
> 
> It just kind of breaks my heart I've got to do it I guess


Ok....now that you've said that, I am going to 'offer' some advice so that you can be effective when you do choose to have this 'meeting' with her..
1. When she offers you a 10....you come back and give her a twenty....
2. Do it like you mean it.....if she offers you any aggression like kicking, front footing, rearing near or even worse over you, biting, charging and you mean to whack her for it.....do it like you mean it and roar at her like a starved lion! You need to hear the end of that whip whistling through the air and smacking her! She needs to feel it. 
3. Be consistent. Don't walk out to the pasture with a whip one day and correct her, and then not take it the next time, if you take it out and she's good, then so be it, perfect......she will learn that she only gets spanked when she's being dangerous. 
4. Also, I don't actually like horses to fear a whip, it's not my intention. So if I have had to whomp a horse across the butt with a whip, 99% of the time it's because they have been aggressively disrespectful, I will wait until the training session is over and the horse is relaxed and I will stand with the horse on the lead and swing and drag the end of the whip all over his body and around his legs while soothing him.....it's a good way to end a session when the horse is relaxed and learning that the whip is not to be feared but the handler is to be respected. I have never had a horse become 'eye ball rolling' fearful of a whip, but I still go through this process anyway.....it soothes me and the horse
5. Horses are inherently lazy......make her work when she's naughty....they hate it! They soon connect the dots.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

JustRuthiey, It is tough love but think of it this way, if she hurt someone seriously you may be backed into a corner and have to put her down. This is your bottle fed baby and I can understand that. I didn't bottle feed a baby but the first foal I had was a little Shetland/Quarter Horse (we didn't know she was pregnant when my dad bought her for my little sister) and OMG I literally hauled that baby around with me. I could pick her up! She would open the sliding screen door and come in the kitchen :lol: I can still hear my mom yelling "get the horse out of the kitchen!!!"

She was majorly imprinted at birth to people and your little one must have been too - now it is time that she remembers that YOU are the boss. Get that buggy/lunge whip out and let her know that behavior that is dangerous is just that...dangerous for her and that her life literally depends on her stopping that crap now! 

Lots of ground work and expect and demand PERFECT behavior. She is smart and will learn that you are the boss and will kick her backside up around her neck if necessary. Good luck and hope to hear she is making a passing grade soon.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

Just Ruthiey said:


> I'm slowly learning that she is going to need a good smack or a push... I just haven't ever had to do that with any of my horses, ever.
> 
> I don't even use a lunge whip, and I use the crop for aids.
> 
> It just kind of breaks my heart I've got to do it I guess


We arent talking about a good smack or a push. We are talking about a good ol' a$$ whipping. If one of my horses ever, and I mean ever, thought about coming up to me and chewing me, they would get more than just a whack. When I get pushed I get angry. I go after them with the fear of god. And believe you me, when they realize you are bigger and meaner they will back down, they will show submission and respect. But you need to treat her like a horse. Hand feeding is a big no-no with certain types of horses. Some horses do fine with it and wont beg or enter your space but others just cant have them. As far as knocking your saddles down, run her off?!?! Gee wiz she is a horse. She will not hate your for running her off. A hand over the bucket to stop her? My horses stand back 15 yards away from their feeders when fed outside. they DO NOT under any circumstance touch their grain till I am out of the pasture gate. When they are in their stall they stand in a corner and wait till I walk out of the stall latch it and say "okay". When I pick a stall. They stand in their corner and dare not move. If they try to go for the door they got another thing coming. ALL of my horses come when called, you can catch any of them, anyday, with anything. They get disciplined but that doesnt mean they hate me. Back your mare off you. Enough is enough. Put your feet down and say that is IT! You will be amazed at the difference in a horse when stand up and put your foot down. But you have to do it all the time. Not just here and their. Or whenever you want. Do it ALL the time. Dont let her touch you in her pasture. You can reach out and touch her but dont let her touch you. If she comes up and touches you and starts harassing you for treats "WHACK". Its amazing what a good ol whack will do. If she doesnt listen do it again with twice the amount of force. When I ask my horses to back away from me I stand tall walk toward and stay "BACK" in a very stern voice. Most of our horses I can back up just by putting my hands on my hips. I dont even have to move my feet or say anything. They know me that well. Hands on my hips is not a good thing, neither is a pointing finger.


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## chubbypony (Dec 18, 2012)

If I were you I would be working on her ground manners 5 times a week. She needs to know whos boss and that your the boss EVERYWHERE not only with a chain lead on. Getting a second opinion from a professional is never a bad thing even if you have worked with a lot of horses like her. 

I dont think she is a lost cause but you need to correct this now and have other on the same page. (if anyone else works with her or is around her) 
Check out some youtube videos of aggressive horses to see what you might want to try. I wouldn't rush breaking her until she is better on the ground. Good Luck


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think, judging by the OP's unfamiliarity with how strong a human may have to get to make the kind of impression that really CHANGES this behavior, that she would be best to enlist a trainer for at least one session. If she has never really experienced disciplining of the strength that I think she will need, then she may apply it half hearted, and thus it becomes "nagging", because it does not make a change in the horse's mind. it only irritates the hrose and ups the level of aggression. Punishment must be swift and strong, so that it never need happen again.

Be merciless in order to be merciful.


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## sewsmarty (Jul 17, 2010)

I put in a pos t about my disrespectful and all your posts have really helped me...because I have lost my confidence I am definitely not being the leader, I keep in the back of my mind that the horse is bigger and can hurt me more than I can hurt them and I think they know that so with that being said we all need to know HOW to show them we are the boss....the problem I have had with lunging is when he is disrespectful and kicks out he also will rear and try to rear up and sometimes I can hold on and sometimes not....no one ever talks about how to handle a horse n a lead line that rears up and goes to run off....how do you hold onto that....I can't let 
Him get away with it....but he is stronger than me!,,,regardless I have learned a lot from your posts...us women want to treat our horses like babies and pets and they CANNOT be that...they can kill us!,,, that is what we really need to grasp...we can love them but in a disciplined way....


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## sewsmarty (Jul 17, 2010)

*I learned a lot.*

I put in a post under training about my disrespectful horse and all your posts have really helped me...

because I have lost my confidence I am definitely not being the leader, I keep in the back of my mind that the horse is bigger and can hurt me more than I can hurt them and I think they know that so with that being said we all need to know HOW to show them we are the boss....the problem I have had with lunging is when he is disrespectful and kicks out he also will rear up and sometimes I can hold on and sometimes not....no one ever talks about how to handle a horse on a lead line that rears up and goes to run off....how do you hold onto that....I can't let Him get away with it....but he is stronger than me!,,,regardless I have learned a lot from your posts...us women want to treat our horses like babies and pets and they CANNOT be that...they can kill us!,,, that is what we really need to grasp...we can love them but in a disciplined way....


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Just Ruthiey said:


> I've started to carry a riding crop with me and a chained lead across her nose when I'm dealing with her.
> I've got a few people who are willing to help me out with her.
> 
> I understand that many of you think getting rid of her might be a smart idea but I bottle fed her. I will do whatever I can to fix her. She just hasn't been nasty like this in a long time.
> ...


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

sewsmarty said:


> I put in a pos t about my disrespectful and all your posts have really helped me...because I have lost my confidence I am definitely not being the leader, I keep in the back of my mind that the horse is bigger and can hurt me more than I can hurt them and I think they know that so with that being said we all need to know HOW to show them we are the boss....the problem I have had with lunging is when he is disrespectful and kicks out he also will rear and try to rear up and sometimes I can hold on and sometimes not....no one ever talks about how to handle a horse n a lead line that rears up and goes to run off....how do you hold onto that....I can't let
> Him get away with it....but he is stronger than me!,,,regardless I have learned a lot from your posts...us women want to treat our horses like babies and pets and they CANNOT be that...they can kill us!,,, that is what we really need to grasp...we can love them but in a disciplined way....


Well it all depends on where you are lunging your horse. I learned a long time ago, and this will usually happen within the first two minutes of lunging, the horse will take off, bucking, fartng, squealing....fine, let him get it out of his system....HOWEVER if he turns into you and rears - put that lunge whip over his rear end, this is when you need fast footwork....OR put the whip over his front legs when they come off the ground....if you put it over his rump you are saying 'move forward and get on all four legs'.....by putting it over his front legs when he rears you are saying 'don't do that,AGAIN!'.....either scenario will work, but initially I give them a whomp on the rump to keep them moving forward and it's if they are defiantly rearing that I whomp the front legs when they come up BUY immediately push them forward when the feet hit the ground.

Same applies with kicking....back legs get a taste of it too. It only takes one or two times effectively for a horse to figure this all out....if he doesn't figure it out fast......he might be a little feral.....sigh.



When they pull on you, provided you are in an enclosed area, make em run, teach them that when they pull on you....you make em run.....and use a pull and release action with the lunge line, just a slight pull then release......pressure....release. Don't constantly pull on a horse....you won't win.

Also, I actually don't like round pens for lunging on a line....the horse uses the shape of the pen to balance, I actually like if they have a corner or two to navigate. Corners can be usefull training tools too.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Just Ruthiey said:


> Do tell someone else their horse isn't all that great, go tell someone else they aren't horse savy.
> 
> So please before I get more annoyed go harp someone else. Your in put is no longer nice.


I do not think they were being untruthful just that you do not like what was said.


Just Ruthiey said:


> I'm slowly learning that she is going to need a good smack or a push... I just haven't ever had to do that with any of my horses, ever.
> 
> I don't even use a lunge whip, and I use the crop for aids.
> 
> It just kind of breaks my heart I've got to do it I guess


All I can say is that you have either had very easy horses or, they lack discipline. 

The fact that 'it breaks your heart' says that you are not prepared to go about it with the correct meaningful attitude.

Horses that a re bottle fed are generally very disrespectful of humans because that human looks on them like a baby and not as a horse. 
They need very strict boundaries as babies as a mare would give them. Not many people do this.

The snippet of video posted is good and shows what needs to be done - I very much doubt you have the experience or the will to do this. 

_For your safety, those that are also around the filly and most of all for the horses sake get a *descent experienced trainer* who knows how to deal with such cases.
_


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

With a horse that turns and faces me and rears I will quickly give them a good smack on the front legs, walk in towards them pointing in the direction I am demanding them to go and give tap on the rump. If they want to come at me charging they get a good hard smack right across the chest. This usually bothers them enough they dart back out of your bubble. If they want to pull on me while lunging or leading and try to get away. I take them somewhere with at least one fence line to work against and do a lot of hard quick rollbacks. This will tire a horse quick but you are continuously changing directions and disengaging those hindquarters as too not let the horse get to much umph to take off with you. If they are or have bolted get into a position to pull their head around and disengage their hindquarters. This is one reason why I only used 12-14 ft leads. I have plently of room to work incase a situation like this pops up.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

When you are lunging, if you have the horse in a rope halter, well fitted, this can help. always wear gloves.

my trainer will do this: If the hrose rears, she will put her gloved hand holding the line down by her hip and use the weight of her body to assist her to resist the horse (kind of cowboy like) and she will move off to the side of the horse a bit, so that the pull is not straight, but pulling off at a an angle. really hard for the horse to rear up very much that way. get the hrose moving as soon as he hits ther ground.

Another possible approach to a hrose that is resisting going forward by rearing up a little (NOT in an aggressive way but in a "i want to get away from you " ) and pulling backward on the line is to do this: you move toward the horse, throwing the line back and forth up at their jaw and back them up rapidly and forcefully. Like, "ok, you want to rear up and back away, you can back away and back away and . . " and when the horse moves in any direction except backward, you stop and allow them to move FORWARD.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> When you are lunging, if you have the horse in a rope halter, well fitted, this can help. always wear gloves.
> 
> my trainer will do this: If the hrose rears, she will put her gloved hand holding the line down by her hip and use the weight of her body to assist her to resist the horse (kind of cowboy like) and she will move off to the side of the horse a bit, so that the pull is not straight, but pulling off at a an angle. really hard for the horse to rear up very much that way. get the hrose moving as soon as he hits ther ground.
> 
> Another possible approach to a hrose that is resisting going forward by rearing up a little (NOT in an aggressive way but in a "i want to get away from you " ) and pulling backward on the line is to do this: you move toward the horse, throwing the line back and forth up at their jaw and back them up rapidly and forcefully. Like, "ok, you want to rear up and back away, you can back away and back away and . . " and when the horse moves in any direction except backward, you stop and allow them to move FORWARD.


Yes, yes and yes......AND yes I forgot to mention the gloves.....very very important!!!


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

Hmmmm......gloves....Might have to try that sometime. LOL Cant say I have ever worn gloves to do anything with a horse.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

oh my. yes , gloves. Two reasons; if the rope gets wrapped around your hand, you are more likely to be able to slip out of your gloves and not be dragged, and two, you won't get the skin torn off your palm (as I did) if the horse does rear when you aren't prepared.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

toosexy4myspotz said:


> Hmmmm......gloves....Might have to try that sometime. LOL Cant say I have ever worn gloves to do anything with a horse.


Haha I never wore gloves UNTIL I got nice lady hands after taking a break for a while.......however I did get a few wicked rope burns from not wearing gloves, but they do help with grip and grab!!


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

i have been burnt worse by leather trying to ride a buck out of a horse then by rope. i have A special way of winding my lunge line so that no matter what it cannot coil itself around my hands. i had one pair of gloves years ago that i loved because they were snug to my hands and not loose but they were leather. i have never been able to find them again and haven't wore gloves sense. sorry to get off topic op
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

Ruthiey, There are a lot of techniques and theories about getting respect from a horse. Most of them work to one degree or another. Personally, I disagree with those who advocate _never_ feeding your horse by hand and _never_ giving sweets, and _never_ letting a horse into your "space". I am one who likes a personal relationship with my horses. I like to pull a horse's head in close and rub his eyes. I like to have my horses jog up to me in a pasture looking for a sweet treat. There are some who believe my horses are spoiled, and maybe they are, but I enjoy the relationship I have with them. Some will disagree completely with me, and that's ok. I'm sure their way works well for them and serves well for their purposes. 

Just be aware some of the folks offering you advice don't know any more than you do. That's the problem with Internet forums. Anybody can join and start tossing out advice. I count myself as well. The only way you can figure out who really knows their stuff is by following their posts on various threads. Pretty soon it starts showing and you can start to decide whose information you can trust and whose you can disregard. And everybody occasionally posts something they later wish they hadn't. Just don't let it get to you.

The respect I look for in a horse is the kind you see in a good, functional family. As I grew up, my brother and sisters occasionally disrespected my mother, because she was always the one who loved us no matter what we did and always thought we were perfect. I'm sorry to say that, but it's true. she was the softie and we learned how to manipulate her. We were spoiled. However, she had one tool in her belt that we always respected. Whenever she said, "Just wait until your dad gets home...", we paid attention. My dad was a loving, patient, kind father, but he had this "look". We never wanted to get "the look". "The look" was effective because once or twice when we were very young, each of us did something to deserve a good spanking. It wasn't a beating, just a spanking. He would take us into the bathroom, explain what we did to deserve the spanking (like not minding Mom), tell us why he was doing it, then we got several well-deserved swats on the bare butt with his bare hand. Thereafter, "the look" was sufficient for most things.

That's the kind of respect I look for from my horses. They don't require much in the way of discipline other than firmness, because they have "gotten it" a time or two when they were disobedient. I find that sternness and consistency far outweigh an occasional good beating. However, there are those occasions when safety, yours and that of others, is at risk by a horse's antics. Those are the times when a "good spanking" is needed. Just remember that while a few good swats on the rump might do it for a child, it will not for a horse. 

On one thread the OP said her horse was charging her and trying to bite and paw her. I recommended she walk out in the pasture with a baseball bat and when the horse came at her, she should give him a solid whop on the neck with it and "knock him into next week!" You see, that's what a horse would do to him if he approached them like that. That's what that occasion requires. However, I wouldn't hesitate to give him a sweet treat the next time he walked up to me in a respectful manner, or rub his eyes, or scratch under his jaws. You have to use the amount of force the occasion requires...consistently...every time, so they know what to expect from you all the time. If you are consistent, their behavior will be consistent. Folks will tell you that horses don't think like humans do. That's true on a higher thought level, but their instinctual behavior is very much like ours. Working with horses can teach you an awful lot about working with people.

Still, there are those horses that are just not worth having because they require too much effort to keep them in check. I think your mare is not in that category yet. You just need to develop your "look". 

Just my thoughts.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Arabs, even crosses, are exceptionally intelligent. Their loyalty has to be slowly earned; they are not a horse that subscribes to "the beatings will continue until the moral improves.

It doesn't sound at all like you've been doing that. I'm just sayin' that, before you send her to a trainer, make sure it's a fair-minded trainer that understands how the Arab brain works

That being said:

1. What is her diet and what are the quantities?

2. Has a vet examined *HER *to make sure she is not in some sort of hormonal discomfort that is making her into an evil Beatch?

3. Has a chiro looked at her to make sure she is not in some sort of structural discomfort?

Any or all of those things can make some horses just plain evil, while others are so placid, you would never know how much pain they are in.

One of TWH's has serious oat/corn/soy allergies. Oats and corn amp him up and make him unruly. Soy does that by triple the amount. He has been with me 16 years and before I discovered his food allergies, he spent more time at the wrong end of a buggy whip than all my Keeper horses and re-schooled Widowmakers put together.

I regret every day, that I didn't figure out his food allergies sooner but it was by accident when I took everyone off grain due to one of them developing metabolic issues.

There is a reason (or reasons) WHY this horse is so evil - get that figured out, then start the re-training of the bad habits.

Nothing is going to help get this horse back on track until the root cause(s) for her behavior get figured out and I think they are health related unless someone has horribly abused her before you came into the picture


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Just Ruthiey said:


> Do tell someone else their horse isn't all that great, go tell someone else they aren't horse savy.
> 
> So please before I get more annoyed go harp someone else. Your in put is no longer nice.


The horse i got rid of wasnt that great thats why hes gone. Guess the truth hurts. And iam not harping iv been around horses probley longer then youv been born. Sorry but some arent worth getting hurt for iv been there done that. They are big and capable of killing you sorry i wont put my life in danger to fix a nasty horse. Iv been seriously hurt from horses just like the one you have. So do your self a favor have someone there when you work with her. And know when its time to give it up i had too with my nasty horse after 8 years dont think he would change. Mine was from a stallion that was very mean so he took after his sire. Both sire and son ended up going for kill. The last owner of my gelding almost got killed. He sent him to slaughter called me first to see if i wanted him back. I said no way and i raised him but at least now he cant hurt anyone else. So be very carefull they can be lighting fast and get you. Sorry if my one post sounded not nice just be super carefull when handling her. She could come around in time but most can never fully be trusted.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

thenrie said:


> Ruthiey, There are a lot of techniques and theories about getting respect from a horse. Most of them work to one degree or another. Personally, I disagree with those who advocate _never_ feeding your horse by hand and _never_ giving sweets, and _never_ letting a horse into your "space". I am one who likes a personal relationship with my horses. I like to pull a horse's head in close and rub his eyes. I like to have my horses jog up to me in a pasture looking for a sweet treat. There are some who believe my horses are spoiled, and maybe they are, but I enjoy the relationship I have with them. Some will disagree completely with me, and that's ok. I'm sure their way works well for them and serves well for their purposes.
> 
> Just be aware some of the folks offering you advice don't know any more than you do. That's the problem with Internet forums. Anybody can join and start tossing out advice. I count myself as well. The only way you can figure out who really knows their stuff is by following their posts on various threads. Pretty soon it starts showing and you can start to decide whose information you can trust and whose you can disregard. And everybody occasionally posts something they later wish they hadn't. Just don't let it get to you.
> 
> ...


 I like to pull a horse's head in close and rub his eyes- You stated that in your first paragraph, okay. YOU are inviting the horse in. That is one thing. I am not saying dont give treats or not stand their next to them and just rub them. YOU the handler, the leader, need to invite them in. Dont just let me come into your space on their own terms. Thats not being a leader. If another horse comes up to my alpha mare just to stand next to her, They get ran off fast. That is her space. We are humans. Much smaller than a horse. Horses do not need to just come up in our faces whenever they want. They need to have invitation to do so. The only treats I give my horses are carrots and apples. But I do not feed any of them by had because I do have one mare that no matter what you do will always take it as an invitation to get right up on you.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Muppetgirl said:


> Ok....now that you've said that, I am going to 'offer' some advice so that you can be effective when you do choose to have this 'meeting' with her..
> 1. When she offers you a 10....you come back and give her a twenty....
> 2. Do it like you mean it.....if she offers you any aggression like kicking, front footing, rearing near or even worse over you, biting, charging and you mean to whack her for it.....do it like you mean it...







A bit tongue in cheek, but somewhat applicable.

Also, little things count. Does she ever get fussy being led? Does she cooperate getting her hooves cleaned? If you stop her on a lead line, does she stop? Or does she kind of stop? We tend to think these are little things, but horses look at them and think, "The King is getting old. Maybe it is time to replace him..." You may need to get in touch with your inner King Henry VIII!

I'm not a trainer. I'm not a pro. I don't compete in anything and my horses - all THREE of them - are works in progress. *So take this with a big steaming cup of FWIW*:

The best time to deal with a kicker is before they kick. Find a small thing. Just lead the horse somewhere, stop them, and then start insisting they don't fidget. Fidgeting means going backwards or disengaging until they get the idea that moving around is unacceptable. Come armed. If a fight develops, be prepared to win. You have the advantage of picking the time and place, so pick it well.

Horses don't start showing dominance by kicking out. Neither should you. Like them, start with little things. Start them when you've thought it out, and have a plan A, plan B, and plan C on how to win. 

If the horse starts to 'lose', it may back down. Or it may decide you've brought a fist to a knife fight. If it does that, you need to be ready with a gun. That is why you need to think things thru in advance, and pick a time and place where you are prepared to do what it takes to win.“_If any of you wanted to build a tower, wouldn’t he first sit down and work out the cost of it, to see if he can afford to finish it? Otherwise, when he has laid the foundation and found himself unable to complete the building, everyone who sees it will begin to jeer at him, saying, ‘This is the man who started to build a tower but couldn’t finish it!’_

_Or, suppose there is a king who is going to war with another king, doesn’t he sit down first and consider whether he can engage the twenty thousand of the other king with his own ten thousand? And if he decides he can’t, then, while the other king is still a long way off, he sends messengers to him to ask for conditions of peace._" - Jesus Christ​


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Thenrie, I am the same with my boys - I want a close relationship with them. They are not show horses - they are not "tools" to me. They are literally my 4 legged babies. But, just as I expected my kids to behave and not embarrass me in public, I expect the same out of my horses. 

When I got Biscuit he was all over the place - not mean (that horse wouldn't know how to be mean thank God) but he'd over walk me on the lead rope, try to lead (really drag!) me down the ranch road. Didn't pick up his feet...he was also terrified someone would hurt him.

Loads of hugs and kisses and treats for him to gain his trust and many stop start stop start back up back up BACK UP!!! times for him, would walk off before I was mounted in the arena, act like a GOOBER in the arena until now he walks slightly behind me, picks up those feet for me and will lean in for a hug and is always grateful for a treat but never pushy about it. This from someone who had been pretty dang nervous around anything even resembling bad behavior after getting really hurt on a horse. I demand good behavior and reward that and punish bad behavior.

OP, start working everyday on the bad behaviors - get help if necessary. I did! My barn owner had to jack Biscuit up one day - and by that I mean he didn't want to lunge....she convinced him with a lunge whip bonking on his shoulder over and over and over that it was in his best interest to move to the right when she said so. She was never mean with him but she meant business. She is the one that helped me get him to pick up his feet when asked. Poor old Biscuit once was set upon by 3 of us in the arena. He decided it was best for his little yellow self to go to the right!


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## Pattilou (Jul 8, 2010)

OK "toosexy" when I die I want to come back and be your horse


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

I know some people think i may sound harsh. But there is a fine line horses should not be aloud to cross. A 180lb human is no match for a 1000lb horse thats just being a brat. I love on my horses. I go out in the pasture just to scratch them or hang out with them. All we have to do is walk outside and all of our horses rush to the gate. We dont even have to call them. They are always eager to see us. They enjoy their work whether they are spending 30 minutes on a lunge line or going for a 30 mile hack. We punish kicking and rearing severely because I have small children and I dont want a animal around that will harm them so if any behavior is every exibited that may be potentionally dangerous or disrespectful then it is delt with pretty harsh. My horses are in no way shape or form scared of whip. The whip is not what delivers the punishment, WE as the owners and leaders are. If I walk in my pasture to go catch someboday. Nobody moves. They stand right where they are and wait. Nobody walks off and starts any commotion. When we put them back in the pasture. Once we remove their halter they stand and wait until after the gait is shut to move. They will not run off or bolt back to the herd. If they do, they get brought out, again, and again, and again to practice an approriate behavior. Nobody every rushes us to do anything. They do not and will not holler back out to a herd member and they will not every rush back to the barn. If they rush back to the barn thats fine, we shall do fifty laps around the barn, now see how much fun getting back to the barn is!?. Each horse is different and not all of them need the same type of punishment. Our App has to be handled very delicately. You dont have use a whip on him. Raising the tone in your voice or waving your hands will easily make him back off and stop whatever it is he is doing. This mare the OP is talking about has gone too far. I would personally, put her in a dry lot at least an acre. I would make her depend on me for EVERYTHING. Water, food, pasture turnout, etc. I would get her out three times a day, every day. I would not offer any treats for a while if you do throw them in a ground feeder not by hand. I would always carry a dressage or buggy whip with me. ANY and I me ANY rude or disrespectful behavior needs to be correct immediately and firmly. Do it fast. You may not every have to hit her with the whip. You may be able to just show it to her. Depends on her. If she gets too close to you while leading turn around wave your arms, shake your lead, roar, whatever, but back her up! Dont allow her to come close to you. Once she is respecting your space then you can slowly start inviting her in on your terms but it she doesnt back away when you ask you need to firmly back off like you mean it NOW. Dont give a 50% reaction to her 100% action. When you go after her to correct do it with 120% do it and mean it. Stick to it. She isnt too far gone not to be able to correct. Somebody just needs to put her in the right place in the pecking order.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

toosexy4myspotz said:


> I know some people think i may sound harsh. But there is a fine line horses should not be aloud to cross. A 180lb human is no match for a 1000lb horse thats just being a brat. I love on my horses. I go out in the pasture just to scratch them or hang out with them. All we have to do is walk outside and all of our horses rush to the gate. We dont even have to call them. They are always eager to see us. They enjoy their work whether they are spending 30 minutes on a lunge line or going for a 30 mile hack. We punish kicking and rearing severely because I have small children and I dont want a animal around that will harm them so if any behavior is every exibited that may be potentionally dangerous or disrespectful then it is delt with pretty harsh. My horses are in no way shape or form scared of whip. The whip is not what delivers the punishment, WE as the owners and leaders are. If I walk in my pasture to go catch someboday. Nobody moves. They stand right where they are and wait. Nobody walks off and starts any commotion. When we put them back in the pasture. Once we remove their halter they stand and wait until after the gait is shut to move. They will not run off or bolt back to the herd. If they do, they get brought out, again, and again, and again to practice an approriate behavior. Nobody every rushes us to do anything. They do not and will not holler back out to a herd member and they will not every rush back to the barn. If they rush back to the barn thats fine, we shall do fifty laps around the barn, now see how much fun getting back to the barn is!?. Each horse is different and not all of them need the same type of punishment. Our App has to be handled very delicately. You dont have use a whip on him. Raising the tone in your voice or waving your hands will easily make him back off and stop whatever it is he is doing. This mare the OP is talking about has gone too far. I would personally, put her in a dry lot at least an acre. I would make her depend on me for EVERYTHING. Water, food, pasture turnout, etc. I would get her out three times a day, every day. I would not offer any treats for a while if you do throw them in a ground feeder not by hand. I would always carry a dressage or buggy whip with me. ANY and I me ANY rude or disrespectful behavior needs to be correct immediately and firmly. Do it fast. You may not every have to hit her with the whip. You may be able to just show it to her. Depends on her. If she gets too close to you while leading turn around wave your arms, shake your lead, roar, whatever, but back her up! Dont allow her to come close to you. Once she is respecting your space then you can slowly start inviting her in on your terms but it she doesnt back away when you ask you need to firmly back off like you mean it NOW. Dont give a 50% reaction to her 100% action. When you go after her to correct do it with 120% do it and mean it. Stick to it. She isnt too far gone not to be able to correct. Somebody just needs to put her in the right place in the pecking order.


 

One word, . . no two: Paragraph breaks!


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

So...I did not read all the responses. I skipped page five. I think there is some solid advice being offered. I would stop all hand feeding right away. This is why orphan foals are so difficult to work with. Was this mare orphaned or bottle fed? I ask because if she was orphaned and did not have any adult horse for behavior modeling I think it will be harder for her to learn appropriate behavior. Bottle feds get super pushy and are often rewarded for it because they are babies who are hungry. 

She is eating and destroying leather because she is a busy body. There is no other reason for it. I would stop storing equipment where she can reach it. 

My second question is do the behavior changes occur consistently or at random times? I am wondering if it co-incides with the mares heat cycle. Which would give you some other options. 

I think working with an experienced trainer is worth it. This sounds like a whole bunch of issues that could be very dangerous. In the mean time, I would employ a nothing in life is free/boot camp style training with this mare. That means only you handle her. She works for EVERYTHING and if she does not do it perfectly then she does it again and again until she does it perfectly. That means if you are leading her and she put her nose 4 inches in front of where you want it she gets backed up and we start again. I think there can appear to be a fine line between correction and abuse and for those who are not use to give strong corrections it can feel like abuse. Think of it like if your mare had a mother (as opposed to be orphaned) her mother would have kicked her and bitten her to correct her for inappropriate behavior. You are her mother and you need to act like it by correcting inappropriate behavior.

I would also say that while its a horrible idea there are some horses that are too dangerous to be around. There may come a time when this mare reaches that point. You would like to save her and keep her around. You should work towards that but be aware that no horse is worth being disabled or dying for.


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## Tarpan (May 6, 2012)

Just Ruthiey said:


> I'm slowly learning that she is going to need a good smack or a push... I just haven't ever had to do that with any of my horses, ever.
> 
> I don't even use a lunge whip, and I use the crop for aids.
> 
> It just kind of breaks my heart I've got to do it I guess



I don't know if I'll get heat for suggesting this, but you can replace the popper on the lunge whip with a weed-eater string to give it a bit more bite. I've never had to do it but a good friend and horseman who I respect used this method when a horse needed a good spanking.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

please please watch doing that! Have you ever been hit hard by weed eater string? If hit right it will leave a gash. I have seen people do that though or a piece of rubber extension cord which will sting and burn like a big b but it won't cut you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tarpan (May 6, 2012)

Yikes, I didn't realize that! I wouldn't want to cut a horse no matter how naughty he/she was being.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Applied properly, a good whip will get any horse's attention. 

Failure to use a whip and use it right is extremely cruel because eventually such acts of "kindness" will cost the horse his life. A spoiled horse is a dangerous horse and a dangerous horse is a dead horse.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

bsms said:


> The Chicago Way - The Untouchables (2/10) Movie CLIP (1987) HD - YouTube
> 
> A bit tongue in cheek, but somewhat applicable.
> 
> ...


Lol!!! Well I do have some Italian heritage!!!


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## sewsmarty (Jul 17, 2010)

*Whip*

A dressage whip is much more effective than a stick and string...try hitting yourself own the leg with it and you will see....

My horse knows what it is...


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

sewsmarty said:


> A dressage whip is much more effective than a stick and string...try hitting yourself own the leg with it and you will see....
> 
> My horse knows what it is...


The only problem is with a dressage whip is that you have to get in close to use it thus, _unless you are extremely experienced_, you can be in the danger zone.

Bottle fed horses are generally lacking in respect of humans. 

As foals it is great for them to come charging up for their bottle and if they push and shove then it is easy to just push them away. They learn certain 'rules' like having a halter on, picking up feet and being led and brushed _but_ they have not learned the correct tough manners a mare would give them.

Watching mares with foals is a real learning curve for anyone who studies them_ especially_ if you have them in a herd environment.

A mare will rightly protect her foal, however by the time it is a week or so old rules start to come into play. 
Majority of ares will stop a foal suckling when she is eating a hard feed. They will stand square making the udder difficult to get at, if the foal persists the tail will swish hard and the mare will move towards the foal sideways using her body to push it away. If the foal continues to try to suckle then the mare will snap her teeth at its backside or, swing her backside and use a leg to shove it away. 

Not many people have the savvy to realise this is all part of them learning respect or, to treat the foal in the same way, only giving milk when rules are obeyed. 

I have reared several bottle foals and took advice from a marvellous woman, Ann Vardon, who runs the National Foaling Bank in the UK, where she will try to match orphan foals with mares who have lost theirs and gives advice when this is not possible.

I was very lucky in having a very maternal mare who would adopt any foal, she might not have the milk to feed it but she was the most wonderful 'nanny' and certainly taught the foals manners. It was funny because all the foals would go to her rather than their dams, they grazed with her, lay near her, only using their mothers as mobile milk bars. 

When you get a maiden mare with her first foal they are often lacking in discipline. Their foals can be very disrespectful and it will take another mare to put it in its place. this can be quite hard but it is part of nature and unless they learn the herd rules they are not going to get far in a natural life.

I never want a horse to be afraid of me, however, I do want its respect and if that takes cracking it one with a whip or whatever is to hand, then I will do so. They are not stupid!
When I had eight 2 & 3 year olds in a large loose shed they all knew they could come behind me as I put the feed into the long trough but to barge me or get ahead would invoke my annoyance. One evening one of them tried shoving me hard. That was it - he got the bucket of feed wrapped around his head whereby he turned to double barrel me. 
I was livid at his audacity and they all knew it!
The seven moved away from the feed trough and stood in a corner whilst I chased the culprit around the shed, throwing the feed bucket between his legs and cussing him. The seven would not let him into their corner and until he showed signs of submission I kept the pressure on. 
I picked up the remains of the bucket and mixed more feed and went back to feed them again. The horses stood well back and, when he went to follow behind me one of the others chased him off - he was only allowed to follow on at the end of the line. 

Not one of those youngsters was worried about me getting 'mad' they knew it wasn't for them, they knew that he had done wrong and deserved his chasing. he also knew what it was for and that it was fair. 

This horse has lacked discipline from the word go. She will need sorting by an experienced person and life will have to be very tough for a few weeks until she learns what life is about.


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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

I've never dealt with a horse nearly that aggressive. But here are a few thoughts:

1. I think you need to work with someone who's successfully dealt with this before. There is certainly some good advice on this board, but applying it isn't the easiest thing. If the horse doesn't react the way you're expecting, what will you do?

2. I'm not at all against spanking a horse that deserves it. But please be careful you don't injure the horse. I don't think anyone is advocating risking an injury, but I think if you took some of this advice the wrong way, you could end up with injuries. That's all I'll say.

3. I agree that it's best to be firm, rather than overly physical, from the beginning, but you're probably beyond that point with this horse. At the same time, you don't want to let your emotions get the better of you during a "meeting." You will need to kick that horse's ***. How you do it will determine how well it works.

4. Any corrections need to be quick. Smacking a horse 30 seconds after it's bit you or whatever won't help.

5. You'll also want to think about what led your horse to this point in the first place so that when your horse is rehabilitated, it doesn't slide back into old behaviour. You'll need to be the herd leader, and make sure all the horses respect you even during the pasture, feeding time, etc... The horses should move out of your way with minimal physical contact (or no physical contact). They don't need to be afraid of you, just respect you.

You don't sound like a green rider or anything, but you probably need some help on the ground. I think most people would in this situation (myself included).

Best of luck. Let us know what happens.


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## LynnF (Jun 1, 2011)

Just Ruthiey said:


> I'm slowly learning that she is going to need a good smack or a push... I just haven't ever had to do that with any of my horses, ever.
> 
> I don't even use a lunge whip, and I use the crop for aids.
> 
> It just kind of breaks my heart I've got to do it I guess


One advantage of a lunge whip over a riding crop is that when her butt is towards you and she is kicking the lunge whip is able to reach her and smack her without you getting in range of her hooves. A crop will put you in a dangerous situation if you try and smack her while she is kicking. I prefer to carry something longer with a horse that kicks. Just a thought for you.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Lots of advice here. Some may work... some may not work. 

Quite honestly, the best advice came from Ian. Get someone to deal with this horse that will help you both. He advised you to find Buck Brannaman. I think he is right (and has advised you to seek someone known and trustworthy). 

You need someone there to see the horse, read the horse, read you and sort it all out. 

I could advise you to lay into this horse and that may, in fact, the the answer. Then again, I have known a horse that if you DID lay into him (and he was a gelding) he would up the ante and try to kill you outright. 

I could advise you on a lot of things to do.. but without seeing the horse and as dangerous as she sounds.. I would be talking through my hat and you could get hurt or the horse could get hurt or you both could get hurt (or killed). 

Take Ian's advice. Get a known pro on the case if you are determined to solve this. If you cannot do this, save yourself and send her on down the road. 

As she is now, she is a large liability.


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

And this is exactly why, when i go into the paddock i get every horse to respect my space if i walk past them... They move for me not me move for them. Im not a expert or am i very experienced, but i have never been kicked by a horse in my life, so how i get other horses to move away from my pressure has kept me safe. ! That horse sounds like a nightmare, like a vicouse dog. Sorry if i was offensive.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

OliviaMyee said:


> And this is exactly why, when i go into the paddock i get every horse to respect my space if i walk past them... They move for me not me move for them. Im not a expert or am i very experienced, but i have never been kicked by a horse in my life, so how i get other horses to move away from my pressure has kept me safe. ! That horse sounds like a nightmare, like a vicouse dog. Sorry if i was offensive.


 
I, knock on wood, feel the same as you about having your space, and I too have never been kicked.


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

toosexy4myspotz said:


> I, knock on wood, feel the same as you about having your space, and I too have never been kicked.


Knock on wood aswell :lol:


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Remember folks.. this is a bottle baby. That can make this a whole 'nother world of training, horse/human relationship and that is what needs sorting. 

If you go at this horse with a whip NOW you could be in a whole peck of trouble and make this a whole lot worse. 

Original Poster: GET A PRO WHO CAN HELP YOU HANDS ON.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

"If you go at this horse with a whip NOW you could be in a whole peck of trouble and make this a whole lot worse. 

Original Poster: GET A PRO WHO CAN HELP YOU HANDS ON."

Amen, you do not fix aggressive behavior with punishment of any kind, you only make it worse.


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