# Info On Pin Firing Please!



## sandy2u1

See if this article helps. The Horse | Pin Firing


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## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> *My Horse Has Pin Firing Scars All Along His Front Leg Along His Tendon.*
> *Just Wondering If Someone Could Explain Detailed What It Is? Ive Been Told That Someone Stuck Pins In His Leg 2 Make An Injury Worse And That Its Cruelty. *
> 
> *I Asked The Saddler Coz He Was The One Who Told Us What It Was ( Id Never Heard Of It Before!) And He Just Said It Was Disgusting Whoever Did it.*
> *Any Info Greatly Appreciated!*
> 
> *Also Just Wondering Will That Affect His Soundness? He Always Has A Bit Of Heat In That Leg But It Never Bothers Him And Its Always The Same Amount Of Heat*


 
wow, these people know nothing about anything....... its NOT cruelty and its NOT trying to make an injury worse. sheesh, people should know what theyre talking about before they speak. he probably bowed a tendon, or something, and they pin fired it. most of us dont pin fire anymore because we cryo instead. anyway, they sedate a horse to pinfire it, its used to TREAT injuries. anywho im sure that link in the previous post will tell you everything about how its done. but gosh, i cant believe someone would tell you that. and no, it wont affect his soundness. its to treat an injury so that he IS sound.


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## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> wow, these people know nothing about anything....... its NOT cruelty and its NOT trying to make an injury worse. sheesh, people should know what theyre talking about before they speak. he probably bowed a tendon, or something, and they pin fired it. most of us dont pin fire anymore because we cryo instead. anyway, they sedate a horse to pinfire it, its used to TREAT injuries. anywho im sure that link in the previous post will tell you everything about how its done. but gosh, i cant believe someone would tell you that. and no, it wont affect his soundness. its to treat an injury so that he IS sound.


Thanks 4 your reply but while i was waiting4 replys i looked it up and i got a few answers that said nothing like what you siad.

Horse racing is [email protected]
1st Bullet Point
"Pin Firing is a process in which acid is injected into the injured tendon (and often the nerve), causing the area to swell and sometimes bleed. The theory is that the increased blood flow to the region will cause more rapid healing. In reality, pin firing can cause the injury to become chronic; it can also temporarily relieve pain, allowing the horse to further injure himself. "


Pin firing... is it allowed in england ? - Yahoo! Answers

!"Pin firing is the treatment of an injury by burning, freezing, or dousing it with acid or caustic chemicals. This is supposed to induce a counter-irritation and speed and/or improve healing. This treatment is prevalent in equine veterinary books published in the early 20th Century, however many present-day veterinarians and horse owners consider it barbaric and a cruel form of treatment."



Equine & Horse Advice: Pin Firing
"Firing is the application of a heated metal instrument, usually referred to as an iron, to the skin, and in some instances to the deeper tissues as well. It has been practised for thousands of years. 

It used to be used when all previous lines of treatment had failed. As horses normally heal their injured tissues by inflammation, the extra stimulus of firing was thought to bring about a recovery if the blood supply could not produce sufficient inflammation by itself to effect a cure. It is now illegal in this country, I'm pleased to say, and I imagine it is in most countries although the method will still have its proponents, I'm sure. 

In point or pin firing, the point of the iron penetrates the whole thickness of the skin into the subcutaneous issue or tendon and, in the case of bony deposits, into the actual bone. The scar tissue thus formed hardens the area. All cases need rest after treatment, up to a year or more depending on the severity of the injury and whether the horse is required to do fast work. 
Many vets have said that it is the rest that cures the horse, not the firing, and that the pain inflicted is therefore cruel and unnecessary"

Also in the above answer it says its illegal in USA so its obviosly cruel if they're going 2 make it illegal.

RSPCA Policy C4 Horses in sport, entertainment and recreation - RSPCA Australia knowledgebase
Last point
"RSPCA Australia is opposed to the firing of horses as this procedure is associated with considerable pain and tissue damage."


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## AlmagroN

well sorry but its not cruel. they may not pin fire anymore, but they do cryo (freeze fire). which is the same process, but they use metal "sticks" that are stuck into liquid nitrogen. 

i just had my 2yr old fillie freeze fired. and guess what, it works. i have hand many racehorses freeze fired, and almost every racehorse has been freeze fired. thats a key in buying a racehorse who is older (atleast 5), if they dont have freeze firing dots, then they arent worth a crap because they dont race hard enough.

its not cruel. my fillie was twitched and given a little bit of sedation and was just fine.

and obviously you did not look at the link Sandy2u1 left for you


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## JustDressageIt

Pin firing isn't cruel but it is looked down on a little nowadays. It's used to decrease healing time. 
AlmagroN wrote some great responses.


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## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> well sorry but its not cruel. they may not pin fire anymore, but they do cryo (freeze fire). which is the same process, but they use metal "sticks" that are stuck into liquid nitrogen.
> 
> i just had my 2yr old fillie freeze fired. and guess what, it works. i have hand many racehorses freeze fired, and almost every racehorse has been freeze fired. thats a key in buying a racehorse who is older (atleast 5), if they dont have freeze firing dots, then they arent worth a crap because they dont race hard enough.
> 
> its not cruel. my fillie was twitched and given a little bit of sedation and was just fine.
> 
> and obviously you did not look at the link Sandy2u1 left for you


Well you've seen the evidence there from vets saying it is cruel and barbaric. If it wasn't why would it be illegal ini USA and Great Britain?

So you would only buy a horse off the tracks if its been 'raced hard enough'? Pure cruelty.

If its not cruel then why is it illegal?? Answer that?

I did look at it.
You mustn't have read the links I left.


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## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> Pin firing isn't cruel but it is looked down on a little nowadays. It's used to decrease healing time.
> AlmagroN wrote some great responses.


If its not cruel somebody please explain to me why its illegal and why vets think it's barbaric? I must be missing out on something!
But why would you use pin firing on a racehorse 2 reduce healing time as once there fired there sold.


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## JustDressageIt

Actually they aren't sold. Pinfiring is used to speed up the healing process to get them back on the track quicker. Why would they waste money trying to heal a horse via pinfiring to just sell it? That makes no sense. 
Many many many horses are pinfired, it's not illegal in Canada as far as I know, though the process is getting outdated as AlmagroN explained. 
Which vets have you personally called up and talked to?


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## crimson88

Pin firing doesn't make it heal faster, it just deadens the nerves so the horse can't feel anything.


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## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> Actually they aren't sold. Pinfiring is used to speed up the healing process to get them back on the track quicker. Why would they waste money trying to heal a horse via pinfiring to just sell it? That makes no sense.
> Many many many horses are pinfired, it's not illegal in Canada as far as I know, though the process is getting outdated as AlmagroN explained.
> Which vets have you personally called up and talked to?


read the article that says
It is now illegal in this country, I'm pleased to say, and I imagine it is in most countries although the method will still have its proponents, I'm sure. 

and the address to the writer is

8262 Coldwater Rd. 
Stokesdale NC, 27357 

Ive talked 2 my local vet about it.


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## JustDressageIt

Actually Crimson:

"Pin firing is a therapy that uses a small, red-hot probe to cause cauterization (burning) of tissue in horses with chronic injuries to produce an abundant, serous inflammatory process. As opposed to other inflammation processes such as infections or bruising, serum has little or no fibrin (clotting material) or cellular content and does not coagulate. Firing causes maximal exudation, or oozing, and minimal tissue degeneration. The flooding of serum seems to flush out any chronic irritation, and it does not displace old scar tissue. "
"The driving idea behind firing is that it makes chronic inflammations acute and allows them to heal. When the body responds to the new injury of firing, which is performed over the old injury, it responds in a different way than the initial injury. I feel that until the condition is made acute, it will not heal. "

In other words, it creates a new injury (though slight) so the leg will heal up faster than just dealing with the old injury alone. 

To the OP:

"Pin firing or thermocautery has therapeutic value for certain conditions in the horse. When done properly, the AAEP considers pin firing an acceptable form of therapy."

Please read the link that Sandy2u1 posted, it is a good read.


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## JustDressageIt

xLaurenOscarx said:


> read the article that says
> It is now illegal in this country, I'm pleased to say, and I imagine it is in most countries although the method will still have its proponents, I'm sure.
> 
> and the address to the writer is
> 
> 8262 Coldwater Rd.
> Stokesdale NC, 27357
> 
> Ive talked 2 my local vet about it.


Haha of course the writer (an animal extremist, it seems) is going to say pinfiring is bad; extremists like that think that anything we do to animals could cause them harm.

I strongly suggest that if you want information firsthand, talk to a track vet or vet tech. 

If you would like to develop your own opinion without being biased by websites that are very extremist when it comes to animal rights, please do take the time to phone up lots of vets in your area to gain absolutely all the insight you can from them. Speaking to some track rescues would be a good idea as well


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## xLaurenOscarx

crimson88 said:


> Pin firing doesn't make it heal faster, it just deadens the nerves so the horse can't feel anything.


 
And since the horse cant feel any pain decides hes ok and starts galloping around and totaly wrecks his leg


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## JustDressageIt

Not true. Please read the link Sandy2u1 posted. It explains the process, and why it works. It does not deaden that leg.

You can also find the following on the internet:
- That all bits are evil
- That keeping a horse at all is evil
- That shoeing a horse is unnecessary evil that doesn't do the horse a lick of good

Please do not believe everything you read on the internet. Please go out there and talk to people that are in the industry to form your own opinion, at least then it will be informed.


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## JustDressageIt

PS - I would not hesitate to buy a pinfired horse, and have considered it before. The pinfiring was not the reason I didn't buy the horse.


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## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> Not true. Please read the link Sandy2u1 posted. It explains the process, and why it works. It does not deaden that leg.
> 
> You can also find the following on the internet:
> - That all bits are evil
> - That keeping a horse at all is evil
> - That shoeing a horse is unnecessary evil that doesn't do the horse a lick of good
> 
> Please do not believe everything you read on the internet. Please go out there and talk to people that are in the industry to form your own opinion, at least then it will be informed.


 
i did read it!
now youu go read about 5 links i left earlier.
show me links to these web sites about all this evil.
i have talked 2 people in the industry. people i trust. and yet there telling me its cruel, unnesecary.
please tell me this. Y would the governments make it illegal?????
youu have answers 4 everythin else xcept this.
my opinion has been informed.


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## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> PS - I would not hesitate to buy a pinfired horse, and have considered it before. The pinfiring was not the reason I didn't buy the horse.


 
my horse is badly fired and ive got him 3 years


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## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> Haha of course the writer (an animal extremist, it seems) is going to say pinfiring is bad; extremists like that think that anything we do to animals could cause them harm.
> 
> I strongly suggest that if you want information firsthand, talk to a track vet or vet tech.
> 
> If you would like to develop your own opinion without being biased by websites that are very extremist when it comes to animal rights, please do take the time to phone up lots of vets in your area to gain absolutely all the insight you can from them. Speaking to some track rescues would be a good idea as well


 
an animal xtremist with DR in front of her name?
i have talked 2 a few ppl in the industry and they're all telling me the same xcept youu


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## JustDressageIt

I'm sorry, call me an old fogey.. but I can't understand some of your posts because of the text speak... could you please type your words out? It is appreciated 

Secondly, I am happy to read the links that you posted, but they are very biased, and don't portray the whole truth. If you want to form your opinion based on half-truths, please be my guest but you will never be 100% correct if you do that. 

As for the illegality of it, could you please post an official site stating that it is indeed illegal?


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## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> i did read it!
> now youu go read about 5 links i left earlier.
> show me links to these web sites about all this evil.
> i have talked 2 people in the industry. people i trust. and yet there telling me its cruel, unnesecary.
> please tell me this. Y would the governments make it illegal?????
> youu have answers 4 everythin else xcept this.
> my opinion has been informed.


PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY OF WHAT?! those people told you someone stuck pins through the horses leg to make the injury worse!!! WTF do they know?!?!!? obviously nothing!


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## crimson88

Pin firing is just like nerve blocks they put in western pleasure horse's tails...To deaden the nerves.

My opinion on pinfiring is that it is INDEED cruel. 16 years ago we were in the racehorse business. Pinfiring was more popular back then and I have seen it done plently of times. The horse is NOT sedated. I have never seen it, but trainers have told me they even use a pitch fork to pin fire with. I don't see how that is not cruel, being stabbed multiple times with red hot rods. That is just my opinion =]


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## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> I'm sorry, call me an old fogey.. but I can't understand some of your posts because of the text speak... could you please type your words out? It is appreciated
> 
> Secondly, I am happy to read the links that you posted, but they are very biased, and don't portray the whole truth. If you want to form your opinion based on half-truths, please be my guest but you will never be 100% correct if you do that.
> 
> As for the illegality of it, could you please post an official site stating that it is indeed illegal?


they're the only ones i found.
find me 1`that says its all good and doesnt hurt the horse and its totally necessary

Would you buy a horse that had been pin-fired? [Archive] - New Rider Message Board
Bizarre Accident?? Horse looses tongue [Archive] - Chronicle Forums
`Bone and Ligament Problem Management - Robert McDowell's Herbal Treatments. Human, Canine and Equine. Cancer Support, Radiotherapy Support, Articles and Online Consultation.


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## crimson88

And the way, I am not by any means an animal extrememist =]


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## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> PEOPLE IN THE INDUSTRY OF WHAT?! those people told you someone stuck pins through the horses leg to make the injury worse!!! WTF do they know?!?!!? obviously nothing!


is every1 wrong but you?
even crimson whos worked and saw it 1st hand agrees!


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## xLaurenOscarx

crimson88 said:


> Pin firing is just like nerve blocks they put in western pleasure horse's tails...To deaden the nerves.
> 
> My opinion on pinfiring is that it is INDEED cruel. 16 years ago we were in the racehorse business. Pinfiring was more popular back then and I have seen it done plently of times. The horse is NOT sedated. I have never seen it, but trainers have told me they even use a pitch fork to pin fire with. I don't see how that is not cruel, being stabbed multiple times with red hot rods. That is just my opinion =]


thank youu crimson!
at least im not the only person here who thinks its cruel!


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## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> And since the horse cant feel any pain decides hes ok and starts galloping around and totaly wrecks his leg


this is untrue. the horse is on stall rest after, until the injury is totally healed. im sorry did you read ANYTHING?



xLaurenOscarx said:


> my horse is badly fired and ive got him 3 years


 what the heck is "badly fired" supposed to mean? you dont know a "good" example of firing from a "bad" one because you dont even know what it is!



xLaurenOscarx said:


> an animal xtremist with DR in front of her name?
> i have talked 2 a few ppl in the industry and they're all telling me the same xcept youu


dr? so what... doesnt mean poo to me! theres lots of "dr's" out there. especially in groups such as PETA, who are totally extreme and think you shouldnt even have pets. 



xLaurenOscarx said:


> Well you've seen the evidence there from vets saying it is cruel and barbaric. If it wasn't why would it be illegal ini USA and Great Britain?
> 
> So you would only buy a horse off the tracks if its been 'raced hard enough'? Pure cruelty.
> 
> If its not cruel then why is it illegal?? Answer that?
> 
> I did look at it.
> You mustn't have read the links I left.


ok THIS made me mad. YOU dont read a **** thing anyone says. you have your own opinion and thats that. i dont "buy horses off tracks" IIIIIIII am the one racing them! you want to call it pure cruelty? you obviously dont understand racing either. we dont determine how hard this horse is going to race, it does! so a horse that has cryo marks is a horse who tries and gives it 110% everytime it races and doesnt dogg out. thats what you WANT.

its not cruel. FREEZE FIRING AND PIN FIRING ARE BASICALLY THE SAME THING! only one is hot and one is cold. so if its soooooooooooooooooooo cruel why is freeze firing ok? hmmmmm?????


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## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> is every1 wrong but you?
> even crimson whos worked and saw it 1st hand agrees!


 excuse me? some joe schmo told you that pinfiring was sticking pins through a horses leg to make the injury worse. wow, theyre a freaking genius. 

i already told you ive done it first hand. and im sorry but first hand isnt having someone telllll you what they did. stories get twisted. thats how racetracks work. everyone has a better story. no one is honest.


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## AlmagroN

crimson88 said:


> Pin firing is just like nerve blocks they put in western pleasure horse's tails...To deaden the nerves.
> 
> My opinion on pinfiring is that it is INDEED cruel. 16 years ago we were in the racehorse business. Pinfiring was more popular back then and I have seen it done plently of times. The horse is NOT sedated. I have never seen it, but trainers have told me they even use a pitch fork to pin fire with. I don't see how that is not cruel, being stabbed multiple times with red hot rods. That is just my opinion =]


using a pitchfork? thats a load of bologana. unless someone whos not a vet is trying to do it themselves to save some $$, its a load of poo.

and if the horse is NOT sedated, they do NOT stand still enough to have proper placement of pinfiring done! they cant move or else they have to start over because it HAS TO be held on the same spot for a certain amount of time to work.


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## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> this is untrue. the horse is on stall rest after, until the injury is totally healed. im sorry did you read ANYTHING?
> 
> 
> what the heck is "badly fired" supposed to mean? you dont know a "good" example of firing from a "bad" one because you dont even know what it is!
> 
> bad firing- his WHOLE front leg from knee 2 fetlock is COVERED in scars!
> 
> dr? so what... doesnt mean poo to me! theres lots of "dr's" out there. especially in groups such as PETA, who are totally extreme and think you shouldnt even have pets.
> 
> 
> 
> ok THIS made me mad. YOU dont read a **** thing anyone says. you have your own opinion and thats that. i dont "buy horses off tracks" IIIIIIII am the one racing them! you want to call it pure cruelty? you obviously dont understand racing either. we dont determine how hard this horse is going to race, it does! so a horse that has cryo marks is a horse who tries and gives it 110% everytime it races and doesnt dogg out. thats what you WANT.
> 
> its not cruel. FREEZE FIRING AND PIN FIRING ARE BASICALLY THE SAME THING! only one is hot and one is cold. so if its soooooooooooooooooooo cruel why is freeze firing ok? hmmmmm?????


i do read! 
i think its pure cruel youu judge a horse on how well it races and that there worth nothing if there slow. fair enogh there not worth anything in the racing but as show jumpers they are.
so youu repay a horse 4 being so good and winning by sticking needles with acid in2 his leg? lucky horse


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## AlmagroN

crimson88 said:


> Pin firing is just like nerve blocks they put in western pleasure horse's tails...To deaden the nerves.


i know nothing about what they do in western pleasure, but if its anything like we do nerve blocks it doesnt "deaden the nerves" it "bocks" them so they temporarily do not work. we use them on legs and knees to block pain. all you do is stick in the needle (for a leg) on the ankle under the skin over the nerves and inject P. Block. thats all. it wares off and it doesnt hurt.


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## crimson88

Vets don't even pinfire anymore!


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## xLaurenOscarx

crimson88 said:


> Vets don't even pinfire anymore!


thats because its illegal in a lot of countrys


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## AlmagroN

crimson88 said:


> Vets don't even pinfire anymore!


ok vets cryo, which is the SAME thing as pinfiring only they are using liquid nitrogen. how many times do i have to say it


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## AlmagroN

BTW how old is your horse? and what do the "pin firing" marks look like? do they look like big white dots?


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## JustDressageIt

LO, I suggest you do some reading up. There is a lot of misinformation that you have been given and I'm sorry that you feel the way you do. 
I do suggest you take a breather from this thread and find out the FACTS (not half-truths, not biased opinions) and make your decision from those facts. 
This discussion is getting very heated because of the misinformation and lack of facts in the OPs mind, and I think personally that she needs to go read up on pin firing from somewhere that doesn't have biased opinions on the subject.

For the record though, AlmagroN, I am with you 
I've been in the horse industry nearly my whole life, racing and ex-racers for some of that, and I hope I know a little about it


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## Saskia

xLaurenOscarx said:


> i do read!
> i think its pure cruel youu judge a horse on how well it races and that there worth nothing if there slow. fair enogh there not worth anything in the racing but as show jumpers they are.
> so youu repay a horse 4 being so good and winning by sticking needles with acid in2 his leg? lucky horse


I think you have forgotten what the racing industry is about. Its an industry, meaning it produces animals and uses them for profit. These are not "horselovers" or the type of horse owners on this site (some may be but I am making generalisations here - sorry to offend anyone). These are people to who racing is their work and their lively hood. If a horse isn't fast its wasting money, and lots of it, and so yes, its worthless. Then again, even to a Warmblood stud, a gelding may be totally worthless to them because they cannot use it, or horse that is terribly afraid of cattle is worthless to a stockman. Its the way life is. 

They don't repay the horse to win, they give it life, they feed it, shelter and eventually they'll probably sell it to someone who will kill it. I'm not saying its nice but its a business. If a racer goes lame it costs a lot to maintain him while he is lame, so if firing pins into their legs saves them money they are going to do it .

As far as SJ is concerned I have noticed that lately (years) at least in the Australian type scene there are more purposely bred horses competing in SJ, and even eventing. Out of the horses on the track that are not fast enough only a hand full will be sold on for retraining, and honestly, I imagine that most of them wouldn't be the ones with pin firing as I would imagine this would lower their resale value. 

There are a lot worse things in the racing world than pin firing, and if it does make a horse sound quicker it could very well save its life. Not only that, but proper application does not appear that painful from what I have heard, with sedation etc. It actually seems a lot like branding, which you probably accept, at least this is not done for ID purposes. 

Honestly I think the whole thing is hypocritical of most people. I personally don't think a horses life is worth anymore than another animals, yet people are perfectly to put livestock through hell then death just to eat them, or at least pay for it. I mean its up to everyone what they do but i think you should be more realistic.


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## AlmagroN

ya know what Saskia, i agree with you on SOME of your posts. the part where you said they arent horselovers kind of hurt. i myself race horses and i love them to death. but i understand you were being general and so for that ill let it go lol. 

but i also want to correct you where you said "so if firing pins into their legs saves them money"

thats not what pinfiring is


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## Saskia

I mean pin firing as a verb, rather than an action, and it just came out like that. I'm not an expert on the subject but I under stand the concept, just not really the application. 

Sorry if I hurt you, I was generalising. Its not just the trainers but some of my parents friends own racehorses, or part of racehorses, and its the glamour and the money, but they don't care about the horse at all. I sometimes tell people I ride horses and they are like, oh racing? They don't understand the horse lovingness. I also know like jockeys and trackworkers who do it for money, and because they're small, but the horse is barely more than a machine. 

There are some good owners, trainers, riders etc. out there who respect the horse, and such, and they are good and there are not enough of them in the industry. If you are one of those people who care about the horses, for themselves, rather than just their profits, I hope you do well, because you deserve to.


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## AlmagroN

Saskia said:


> There are some good owners, trainers, riders etc. out there who respect the horse, and such, and they are good and there are not enough of them in the industry. If you are one of those people who care about the horses, for themselves, rather than just their profits, I hope you do well, because you deserve to.


thank you, we are really trying to do well but we were plagued by bad luck (one broke a coffin joint, one broke a sesamoid behind, and one died- that was REALLY traumatizing for me, i sat with him for 1/2 hour after he died petting him). recently things are starting to turn around though, out of the last 7 horses we raced, 4 were 2nd, 1 was 3rd, 1 was 4th, and 1 was last. 4 of those horses we didnt even think would get a check (have to be atleast 5th to get a check), so they really are turning around for us.


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## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> LO, I suggest you do some reading up. There is a lot of misinformation that you have been given and I'm sorry that you feel the way you do.
> I do suggest you take a breather from this thread and find out the FACTS (not half-truths, not biased opinions) and make your decision from those facts.
> This discussion is getting very heated because of the misinformation and lack of facts in the OPs mind, and I think personally that she needs to go read up on pin firing from somewhere that doesn't have biased opinions on the subject.
> 
> For the record though, AlmagroN, I am with you
> I've been in the horse industry nearly my whole life, racing and ex-racers for some of that, and I hope I know a little about it


show me where il find 'facts' if those are the links i got when i typed in 'pin firing a horse'
ive been in the horse industry my whole life! im about 2 take my exams in horses!


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## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN;392548. no one is honest.[/quote said:


> and you'd know?


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## mayfieldk

'My exams in horses!'

Lol. Does that make you an expert then? I'm going to go ask Philippe Karl if he took his exams. And Beezie Madden. And my vet. I'm sure my vet took 'exams in horses'.

I've read through all these posts, and I still haven't found the post where you prove pin firing is illegal? I've seen lots of off-the-track TBs for sale in the US with it done, so... Still curious for that proof. Shouldn't be hard to find if it's true right?


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## xLaurenOscarx

mayfieldk said:


> 'My exams in horses!'
> 
> Lol. Does that make you an expert then? I'm going to go ask Philippe Karl if he took his exams. And Beezie Madden. And my vet. I'm sure my vet took 'exams in horses'.
> 
> I've read through all these posts, and I still haven't found the post where you prove pin firing is illegal? I've seen lots of off-the-track TBs for sale in the US with it done, so... Still curious for that proof. Shouldn't be hard to find if it's true right?


BHS exams
did i say it did?
im sure your vet did other wise he wouldnt be qualified!
did youu look and READ the links? obviosly not


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## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> and you'd know?


um yes actually i would know, obviously, since thats what i do for a living. obviously you DONT read posts very well. AND you never answered me as to what your dots look like. better yet! i would LOVE to see a pic of his leg with his pin firing dots

and dont tell me about how you have been in the "industry" your whole life. what "industry" is that? and how old are you?

my family has been racing horses for generations, racing is a HUGE industry, we dont operated without fans betting on our horses and enjoying the sport.


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## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> BHS exams
> did i say it did?
> im sure your vet did other wise he wouldnt be qualified!
> did youu look and READ the links? obviosly not


lets not get into "qualified" vets. this is like talking about "qualified" doctors. ya know what, everyone who passes is "qualified" then right? well im sorry but i dont want a doctor who just squeaked by passing to be my doctor, i want the guy who graduated TOP of his class..... but wait, theyre both QUALIFIED arent they?

there is a vet who is "qualified" at the track, this vet can barely give an IV shot. is this vet a "qualified" vet? suuuuure, this vet went to school. is this vet a good vet? NOPE, wont let this vet TOUCH my horses. taking exams and tests is nice and all, but it doesnt mean SQUAT! your abilities, personal experience, and personal knowledge is what means the most.


----------



## NorthernMama

I'm not going to get into this argument, but I have an x-track horse who was pin-fired several times. She had severely bowed tendons, had recurring lameness and was going to be put down except it was cheaper for the trainer to give her away (man, he was a piece of work!) Anyway, even the vet said she would never come through, but she did and I ride her regularly. She's never lame and never has any heat in her legs.


----------



## madisonfriday

not to highjack the thread but what do the scars look like...the people i got Hero from said he retired from the track sound.

He has a scar across his front leg just a horizonal line but then between his ankle and knee he has what it looks like crimps going up his front legs...

I wonder...


----------



## themacpack

The problem is that not everyone uses pin firing or other methods, medications, etc the proper way. There are plenty who do use them to mask pain and use an unsound horse in a way that only causes further damage. Unfortunately, as with everything else in life, there are bad apples and they often ruin the whole batch. Fact is, pretty much anything that can be used for god can also be used for evil - and it usually doesn't take long for someone to figure out exactly how to do just that.


----------



## madisonfriday

you can see the scars in this photo


----------



## themacpack

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/2901452407_48d026ab10.jpg - these are obviously fresh, but will give you an idea what the scarring might look like


----------



## themacpack

Here is a pic of old scarring - better idea of what it would look like on your horse
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_NmbCyE0oR_o/SlYrSc92GuI/AAAAAAAAACY/319cklEmv_E/s320/IMG_0095.JPG


----------



## madisonfriday

very interesting are they ever done across the front? Hero has what looks like crimped hair going up his front legs.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> lets not get into "qualified" vets. this is like talking about "qualified" doctors. ya know what, everyone who passes is "qualified" then right? well im sorry but i dont want a doctor who just squeaked by passing to be my doctor, i want the guy who graduated TOP of his class..... but wait, theyre both QUALIFIED arent they?
> 
> there is a vet who is "qualified" at the track, this vet can barely give an IV shot. is this vet a "qualified" vet? suuuuure, this vet went to school. is this vet a good vet? NOPE, wont let this vet TOUCH my horses. taking exams and tests is nice and all, but it doesnt mean SQUAT! your abilities, personal experience, and personal knowledge is what means the most.


right whatever youu think


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> taking exams and tests is nice and all, but it doesnt mean SQUAT! your abilities, personal experience, and personal knowledge is what means the most.


so if iit means squat how come ppl pay 2 do exams in horse management and vetnery? how come 2 be a riding instructor youu have 2 take exams? if it means squat?


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

mayfieldk said:


> Still curious for that proof. Shouldn't be hard to find if it's true right?


youu go find me an official web site that says murdering people is illegal


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> um yes actually i would know, obviously, since thats what i do for a living. obviously you DONT read posts very well. AND you never answered me as to what your dots look like. better yet! i would LOVE to see a pic of his leg with his pin firing dots
> 
> and dont tell me about how you have been in the "industry" your whole life. what "industry" is that? and how old are you?
> 
> my family has been racing horses for generations, racing is a HUGE industry, we dont operated without fans betting on our horses and enjoying the sport.


youu saying i cant read??

sure il be out 2 him again 2moz and il take a pic and put it up 2moz!

how would youu know if i have r not? you dont know me!

good for your family! my god father buys and sells racehorses! my dads worked with them 2!
im well aware horse racing is a huuge industry. im not thick!


----------



## themacpack

Lauren, 
Your use of text speak really makes your posts quite difficult to read. You'd have more luck getting your points across if they were able to be understood.


----------



## tempest

xLaurenOscarx said:


> *Also Just Wondering Will That Affect His Soundness? He Always Has A Bit Of Heat In That Leg But It Never Bothers Him And Its Always The Same Amount Of Heat*


 This was what the OP wanted so please can someone answer the question without arguing, bashing, and insulting people? I would really like to know more about this stuff like the OP wants, but all this arguing is making it hard to do.


----------



## JustDressageIt

Tempest, it sounds to me like the leg has never healed and there's a recurring injury at that site.
Pinfiring itself doesn't make a horse lame; it is used to heal instead.

Of course there are always going to be bad apples in the bunch that make pinfiring look like the worst thing in the whole world to do... but we humans do some pretty weird stuff to our bodies as well... for instance:

I have a pain loop in my abdomen. To stop this pain cycle, my doctor wants me to do the following:
- Get IMS and guided needling done to very specific muscles; that is, big long needles are going to be guided by ultrasound into very specific muscles, causing irritation and then release and then healing. Sounds painful, no? Well yes it is, but the end benefit is so worth it.
- Numerous novocaine injections into targeted muscles. This specific method is to dull the pain in the area and therefore hopefully start to break up the cycle. It is masking the pain, and it is painful but the end benefit is worth it. 
- Moreover, I have a rib that is constantly out of place due to weak ligaments around it. My doctor wants me to do prolotherapy, which is where they guide a needle and inject sailine into the ligament to irritate it and through irritation, it will heal. Extremely painful, but the end product is worth me being "sound" again.

So there are some human examples for one to think about.

Should I be in pain for the rest of my life, or should I endure a little pain now for a long-term benefit?

LO, you can read lots of stuff on how pinfiring is terrible and abusive and painful to the horse... but it has been proven to help heal a horse so they're sound again; why would you deny a horse that? Minimal pain for long-term gain.. what's so wrong with that?


----------



## tempest

thank-you very much JDI.


----------



## shesinthebarn

Ohhhh boy...where to beginnnnn....
Your horse has most likely NOT been pin-fired. He has most likely been cryo'd. Cryo is commonly used in MANY disciplines - I've seen western and english performance horses with dots. Cryo is not cruel, pin-firing is. I'm pretty sure it's illigal to pin-fire in Canada. Cryo can also be very effective, although it's not my fave treatment option. It's less expensive than other options to treat a variety of lameness. Cryo uses liquid nitrogen, and the horse is sleepy to have it done. I've never seen one show any signs of pain while having cryo done, and it heals quickly if taken care of properly. Again, cryo does not use a hot metal anything - it's not a cruel proceedure, although it's falling out of fashion in the advent of more effective treatment options.
I don't agree that a horse with no cryo dots is no good - I looked after a horse for his 2 and 3 year old seasons who made over a million bucks in that time. He did not have ONE cryo dot. He's now a stud in Sweeden. 
Good luck with your horse, I hope his leg is fine and you guys have a lot of miles ahead of you. If the dots are up and down the length of the tendon, it is most likely an old bow. Just keep ypu eye on it and take precautions with it.
Hope that helps!


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> i have hand many racehorses freeze fired, and almost every racehorse has been freeze fired. thats a key in buying a racehorse who is older (atleast 5), if they dont have freeze firing dots, then they arent worth a crap because they dont race hard enough.


thats not true. not all racehorses are fired. during the summer i worked in a racing yard 4 a bit and none of those horses had been fired! and dont say they're not worth anything because most of them are winning their races and one of them is tipped 2 win the grand national!


----------



## JustDressageIt

LO, can you please go back and read my post? Maybe it will put things in perspective. 

Once again, can you please stop typing in text-speak, I cannot understand it.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> i dont "buy horses off tracks" IIIIIIII am the one racing them! you want to call it pure cruelty? you obviously dont understand racing either. we dont determine how hard this horse is going to race, it does! so a horse that has cryo marks is a horse who tries and gives it 110% everytime it races and doesnt dogg out. thats what you WANT.


youu said in another thread you dont ride?
how can you race racehorses if you dont ride?


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> LO, can you please go back and read my post? Maybe it will put things in perspective.
> 
> Once again, can you please stop typing in text-speak, I cannot understand it.


 
i did.
i cant help it!
im tryin my best. believe me it could be an awful lot worse!


----------



## JustDressageIt

Does it make sense though? A bit of pain for a whole lot of gain? 

Hell, I'd be pin-fired if it meant I was able to start jogging again. I am going to get IMS/guided needling done which is super painful ("cruel"?) but worth the benefit in the end.

LO, could you please respond to my long post, the last one on page 2?


----------



## JustDressageIt

"Firing is done more often in racehorses than in other performance horses, and has been used for more than a century in conditions of recurring injuries such as a splint, curb, or chronic bowed tendon. The process is performed under sedation and local anesthesia, *and the pain inflicted is fairly short-lived and usually well-tolerated by the patient*."

In my opinion, no worse than some treatments that us humans have to go through to get healed, and healed properly.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> Does it make sense though? A bit of pain for a whole lot of gain?
> 
> Hell, I'd be pin-fired if it meant I was able to start jogging again. I am going to get IMS/guided needling done which is super painful ("cruel"?) but worth the benefit in the end.
> 
> LO, could you please respond to my long post, the last one on page 2?


i already have.
its 3rd i think on page 3


----------



## JustDressageIt

JustDressageIt said:


> Tempest, it sounds to me like the leg has never healed and there's a recurring injury at that site.
> Pinfiring itself doesn't make a horse lame; it is used to heal instead.
> 
> Of course there are always going to be bad apples in the bunch that make pinfiring look like the worst thing in the whole world to do... but we humans do some pretty weird stuff to our bodies as well... for instance:
> 
> I have a pain loop in my abdomen. To stop this pain cycle, my doctor wants me to do the following:
> - Get IMS and guided needling done to very specific muscles; that is, big long needles are going to be guided by ultrasound into very specific muscles, causing irritation and then release and then healing. Sounds painful, no? Well yes it is, but the end benefit is so worth it.
> - Numerous novocaine injections into targeted muscles. This specific method is to dull the pain in the area and therefore hopefully start to break up the cycle. It is masking the pain, and it is painful but the end benefit is worth it.
> - Moreover, I have a rib that is constantly out of place due to weak ligaments around it. My doctor wants me to do prolotherapy, which is where they guide a needle and inject sailine into the ligament to irritate it and through irritation, it will heal. Extremely painful, but the end product is worth me being "sound" again.
> 
> So there are some human examples for one to think about.
> 
> Should I be in pain for the rest of my life, or should I endure a little pain now for a long-term benefit?
> 
> LO, you can read lots of stuff on how pinfiring is terrible and abusive and painful to the horse... but it has been proven to help heal a horse so they're sound again; why would you deny a horse that? Minimal pain for long-term gain.. what's so wrong with that?


My mistake LO, this is the post I meant.


These invasive treatments (which will be painful) will mean the difference in my being able to live a normal life or not.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> My mistake LO, this is the post I meant.
> 
> 
> These invasive treatments (which will be painful) will mean the difference in my being able to live a normal life or not.


 
i cant post now because im getting a bit fed up of this Tbh and i know il end up saying something that wil get me thrown off here


----------



## JustDressageIt

xLaurenOscarx said:


> i cant post now because im getting a bit fed up of this Tbh and i know il end up saying something that wil get me thrown off here


Fair enough, take your time.

I'm just trying to explain my stance, and comparing it to something else that you might be able to better understand. For my chronic pain, I've exhausted all non-invasive treatments, and now to be able to live a decent life, I'm looking at painful treatments... but a few painful treatments will be better than living my entire life in pain... does that make sense?


----------



## AlmagroN

themacpack said:


> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3231/2901452407_48d026ab10.jpg - these are obviously fresh, but will give you an idea what the scarring might look like


first off those are NOT PIN FIRING MARKS! those are cryo dots!



xLaurenOscarx said:


> so if iit means squat how come ppl pay 2 do exams in horse management and vetnery? how come 2 be a riding instructor youu have 2 take exams? if it means squat?


$$$$$$$- thats why people do it. if taking a test means you can have a special "title" infront of your name and you can charge people for your services because they should trust you because your a "doctor", wouldnt you do it? everyones looking to make $$$



tempest said:


> This was what the OP wanted so please can someone answer the question without arguing, bashing, and insulting people? I would really like to know more about this stuff like the OP wants, but all this arguing is making it hard to do.


it has been answered but she ignores it



xLaurenOscarx said:


> youu said in another thread you dont ride?
> how can you race racehorses if you dont ride?


 wow..... wow....... you have no idea of the racing world..... there is TB racing and harness racing for STBs. read up if you think you know about racing.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> wow..... wow....... you have no idea of the racing world..... there is TB racing and harness racing for STBs. read up if you think you know about racing.


im irish why the hell would i care about what racing goes on in america????????
and how the hell would i no about it???? its not exactly something we have in books over here


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> im irish why the hell would i care about what racing goes on in america????????
> and how the hell would i no about it???? its not exactly something we have in books over here


um what? harness racing is all over the world. canada, USA, australia, new zealand, russia, etc. if you didnt act so ignorant to things, you might learn something from this thread

not to mention steeplechase, american QH racing, endourance riding, and arabians, appaloosas, etc are raced around the world too. so lets not talk about how much you know of the racing industry and try to learn something


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> um what? harness racing is all over the world. canada, USA, australia, new zealand, russia, etc. if you didnt act so ignorant to things, you might learn something from this thread


 
not in ireland or england!
im not being ignorant im jst askin you how could i know there was harness racing if theres none anywere around me???????? im not a frikin phsycic!


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> not in ireland or england!
> im not being ignorant im jst askin you how could i know there was harness racing if theres none anywere around me???????? im not a frikin phsycic!


 youre right, i shouldnt know there is such a thing as steeplechase because its not done by me. i shouldnt know they have reining competitions because its not done by me. i shouldnt know about dressage because theres none by me. 

ignorance is not opening yourself to the world and learning and growing. i dont ride horses, but ya know what i want to know things they do because i learn and grow from it. then maybe one day i can help me! 

if you want to say you "know" the racing industry, you should atleast know different types of racing. if you seclude yourself to a little section, you wont get far.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> youre right, i shouldnt know there is such a thing as steeplechase because its not done by me. i shouldnt know they have reining competitions because its not done by me. i shouldnt know about dressage because theres none by me.
> 
> ignorance is not opening yourself to the world and learning and growing. i dont ride horses, but ya know what i want to know things they do because i learn and grow from it. then maybe one day i can help me!
> 
> if you want to say you "know" the racing industry, you should atleast know different types of racing. if you seclude yourself to a little section, you wont get far.


im not youu! how am i meant 2 know about these things if ive nvr heard anything about! im not a mind reader so i dunno what 2 look up!
and how can i look things up in books if they're jst not there?????????

im not being ignorant but im getting soooo fed up with this! 
who said anythin about me personally wanting 2 be in the business? ive my heart set on show jumping! jst coz some of my family did it and i rode racehorses 4 bit of xperience does not mean i want 2 do it!


----------



## AlmagroN

no one said you wanted to be in the business. i was simply stating that you should not make false statements that you "know" the racing industry, if you obviously do not.

anyway, youre fed up because you are not hearing what you want to hear. you asked 2 people what it was, and they were wrong, and thats that. but thats not what you want to hear. you want to hear everyone agree with you, and those 2 people. well im sorry, but its not happening here. 

if your horses leg looks like the one themapack posted, its not pinfiring as she stated it was.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> no one said you wanted to be in the business. i was simply stating that you should not make false statements that you "know" the racing industry, if you obviously do not.
> 
> anyway, youre fed up because you are not hearing what you want to hear. you asked 2 people what it was, and they were wrong, and thats that. but thats not what you want to hear. you want to hear everyone agree with you, and those 2 people. well im sorry, but its not happening here.
> 
> if your horses leg looks like the one themapack posted, its not pinfiring as she stated it was.


 
i know it. i know the 1 in ireland! know need 4 me 2 know anywer else! dont mean i want 2 be in it! your makin assumptions!

no im fed up bcoz your makin asuumptions and insults!
i didnt specificly ask 4 your opinion.

i wil put a pic up of it 2moz
it was pin fired. its been identified


----------



## themacpack

Is there any chance you might give the multiple mentions of your use of text speak any consideration?


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

themacpack said:


> Is there any chance you might give the multiple mentions of your use of text speak any consideration?


im truly sorry. i know in the last post i did loads but i was just getting angry. sorry.
in the other posts i was trying not 2 use it
sorry again


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> i wil put a pic up of it 2moz
> it was pin fired. its been identified


identified by the same person who told you they stuck pins through the horses leg to make his injuries worse?


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> identified by the same person who told you they stuck pins through the horses leg to make his injuries worse?


 
a qualified and highly recommended vet, 3 instructors, the yard owner, dealer, dad, groom, saddler, and farrier


----------



## NorthernMama

I'm wondering if pin-firing might be a term that is used differently in different locations. My 9 yr old was pin-fired. I know because the trainer who had it done told me so, and it has been confirmed by other STBD owners and the vet as well. Her scars look a lot like the pic already posted, but it's been so long, that now they look like white dots instead. They are NOT Cyro marks and from what I understand pin-firing is illegal on the stbd circuit in Canada. I could check my regulations, but I think they are rather vague and refer only to unsuitable treatments. The trainer I got my horse from had her removed from the track-barn, pin-fired, then returned. (I might mention that this same trainer has had his license suspended at least once.)

At any rate, as I already posted, my girl is now completely fine. She did have heat in her legs for the first month she was with me. Then on and off for the next few months (I don't remember how long anymore). But now, 3 years later, I never notice any heat. The heat that she had was from her latest bow, not from pin-firing.

So, to the OP -- yes your horse will probably be fine given time. Treat the symptom (heat) and don't push your horse. Keep it at a walk for a loooong time and be patient. You could have an ultrasound done to check the soft tissue damage that was "treated" by the pin-firing, just to confirm, but likely he just needs time.


----------



## AlmagroN

blast, i found a great website before that had an example of pinfiring on a leg and an example of cryoing.... and of course i cant find it!:?


----------



## themacpack

I'm sorry about the photo mix-up. It was labeled as being pin firing and I didn't know it was incorrect.


----------



## NorthernMama

Here are pics of my girls:


This is Lisa who had it bad  Poor girl. Pin-fired 








Jade -- I believe this is cyro, but I didn't ask the owner when I took her:








AlmagroN -- why not post some pics of your own horses that have been fired?


----------



## AlmagroN

i will have to take pics of some legs when i get to work tomorrow. i dont believe i had anyone who was pin fired though. just cryos.

those both look like cryos though because of the size of the dots.the first just looks like a really bad cryo job. pin firing is very very tiny and doesnt leave big marks. i have a good pic of a pin firing but it wont save so that i can put it on here!

EDIT: here is the link for the page that the pic is on. its the first pic and above it says "what is pin firing?" click on the pic and it shows it really large so you can see the dots http://tzenateachestrotting.blogspot.com/


----------



## NorthernMama

After I looked around on the net and at your link, I gotta agree that my girls look like they've been cryo-ed not pin-fired. I wonder if locally the people just use the "old terminology" because that's what they grew up with. 
Interesting. I've learned a few things following this thread.


----------



## mayfieldk

Honey, I can find you plenty of webpages that say murdering is illegal. That was a really poor example.

'Also in the above answer it says its illegal in USA so its obviosly cruel if they're going 2 make it illegal.'

'If it wasn't why would it be illegal ini USA and Great Britain?'

Stop toting false information--*Site your facts*. Pin firing is illegal in the UK. *Pin firing is still practiced in the US*, The American Association of Equine Practitioners endorses it in certain situations when used correctly, the Jockey Club (The Thoroughbred Registry) says absolutely NOTHING about pin firing in its rule books.

I have no problem with you stating what you feel, but stop spreading misinformation.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

mayfieldk said:


> Honey, I can find you plenty of webpages that say murdering is illegal. That was a really poor example.
> 
> 'Also in the above answer it says its illegal in USA so its obviosly cruel if they're going 2 make it illegal.'
> 
> 'If it wasn't why would it be illegal ini USA and Great Britain?'
> 
> Stop toting false information--*Site your facts*. Pin firing is illegal in the UK. *Pin firing is still practiced in the US*, The American Association of Equine Practitioners endorses it in certain situations when used correctly, the Jockey Club (The Thoroughbred Registry) says absolutely NOTHING about pin firing in its rule books.
> 
> I have no problem with you stating what you feel, but stop spreading misinformation.


 
read what i wrote! OFFICIAL web site! there is none!
i have! if you would read the links ive put down you would see that it is illegal in the USA 2.
im not spreading misinformation. your just picking and choosing what your reading


----------



## JustDressageIt

xLaurenOscarx said:


> read what i wrote! OFFICIAL web site! there is none!
> i have! if you would read the links ive put down you would see that it is illegal in the USA 2.
> im not spreading misinformation. *your just picking and choosing what your reading*




Seems that is the case for yourself


----------



## Snapple122

OK, really, this thread was way too long with pointless arguments, so I didn't even read all the pages. Honestly, animal activists will say anything. Do you believe that we shouldn't even ride horses because it's "cruel"? Well some animal extremeists do. To me, when I read liquid nitrogen, it made me think of when you have a wart, doctors use liquid nitrogen to freeze the wart so it will fall off.. in other words.. they use it to *heal* it. Does it hurt? Kind of. For like 5 seconds. And if you were sedated, you wouldn't even feel it. It's a different thing, obviously but the same in a way.


----------



## Snapple122

and LO- please.. I am like, the grammar police. Please refrain from using text talk. It really takes away from your message. And for the record it's you're not your. I am not trying to be mean, I'm just saying.


----------



## JustDressageIt

Thank you Snapple, another human example of using a little bit of pain for a lifetime of gain. 
That's what my message has been, is all...


----------



## Snapple122

JDI- Yeah, and I mean.. using the liquid nitrogen for humans and on horses is kind of the same thing. It stings for like, 5 seconds but then it's gone!
And I didn't mean that your argument was pointless, that comment was kind of aimed at the other side of this argument. 
LO- listen to what people (not animal extremeists) are saying. Learn about it and then form your opinion from educated input.


----------



## JustDressageIt

Exactly. 

It is so easy to open up a few sites from animal extremists and form an opinion solely on what you're presented with there. They play peoples' emotions, they really do write a good story, but it's told with a spin; kind of National Enquirer-esque. 
Like I said, OP, please do go around and gather information from ALL sides before you make up your mind.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> Exactly.
> 
> It is so easy to open up a few sites from animal extremists and form an opinion solely on what you're presented with there. They play peoples' emotions, they really do write a good story, but it's told with a spin; kind of National Enquirer-esque.
> Like I said, OP, please do go around and gather information from ALL sides before you make up your mind.


_you're_ not readin what i wrote! i googled pin firing and those are the sites that came up!


----------



## JustDressageIt

xLaurenOscarx said:


> _you're_ not readin what i wrote! i googled pin firing and those are the sites that came up!


There are a couple problems with that:
1) Google is not a know-all, it cannot discern (determine) between good, reputable sites, and sites that are feeding you balogne. 
2) Google would never be accepted as a credible source because of the above point
3) You are only reading one side of the argument and are REFUSING to see the other side. I have provided you with a lot of information, and you are still sticking to your possibly not credible sites.

It is up to you and you alone if you want to live ignorant, or if you want to gather up the facts and make an informed decision.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> There are a couple problems with that:
> 1) Google is not a know-all, it cannot discern (determine) between good, reputable sites, and sites that are feeding you balogne.
> 2) Google would never be accepted as a credible source because of the above point
> 3) You are only reading one side of the argument and are REFUSING to see the other side. I have provided you with a lot of information, and you are still sticking to your possibly not credible sites.
> 
> It is up to you and you alone if you want to live ignorant, or if you want to gather up the facts and make an informed decision.


 
yeah i know google cant do that. 
im not frikin ignorant! do *NOT* judge me! you dont know and never will know me so do *NOT* judge me


----------



## Chavez

I really do not think anyone is judging you. They are just trying to give you all the information from both sides. I think you just agree to disagree on this subject and that is fine


----------



## themacpack

xLaurenOscarx said:


> yeah i know google cant do that.
> im not frikin ignorant! do *NOT* judge me! you dont know and never will know me so do *NOT* judge me


Can you please point out where you were judged by anyone participating in this thread? You started the thread asking for others' opinions on the practice - they gave them. It seems to have gone off track when people had the nerve to disagree with your opinion and present their side of the discussion.

As I said before, this - and any - practice can be abused, but that doesn't mean that everyone who uses it DOES abuse it or is using it for unscrupulous purposes.

Edited for clarification - you didn't start out asking for opinions, but once the other side of the issue was presented, you started asking for thoughts/opinions on it's cruelty, use, etc.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

this threads not goin 2 wrk out i got the info i want dont care bout any1 else.
got a problem with that? dont care 2 be honest
evry1 jst stop writin 2 this thread


----------



## NorthernMama

xLaurenOscarx said:


> this threads not goin 2 wrk out i got the info i want dont care bout any1 else.
> got a problem with that? dont care 2 be honest
> evry1 jst stop writin 2 this thread


LO thats a rly bad atitde 2 hv. its 2 bad that ur opinion is the only 1 that matters 2 u. u will not learn much like that. i hope it takes u as long 2 read this as it took me 2 write it. 

PLEASE - no text speak. If you are too upset to type correctly, then you are possibly too upset to think about what you are saying or absorb any of the information people are giving you. Not to be mean, but out of respect for my own time, I will no longer respond to any text speak messages. I'm done.


----------



## themacpack

xLaurenOscarx said:


> this threads not goin 2 wrk out i got the info i want dont care bout any1 else.
> got a problem with that? dont care 2 be honest
> evry1 jst stop writin 2 this thread


Do you one better, I'll go ahead and make a mental note to skip your posts because trying to interpret them is too much hassle. Perhaps if you at least had a decent attitude it would be worth it.


----------



## mayfieldk

I did read what you posted, one was in a chat room. That doesn't make it illegal, dear. That just means that someone--like you--is giving out false information.

If it was illegal, it'd be in a rule book.

And ignorant means a lack of knowledge, and since you refuse to write with correct grammar, then you prove that yes, you are being ignorant. No judgment--just fact.

This is the internet--all we have are words. Use them correctly.


----------



## AlmagroN

no one judged you. you just cant seem to accept that fact that you really dont understand a practice, but wont learn anything about it..

and no its not illegal in the US

you know, ignorance is never a good thing in the horse world. see, opening yourself up, learning techniques, learning different disciplines (dont have to do them, but alteast know about them), it can all help you in the horse world. its what really makes someone a GOOD HORSEMAN. learn to make yourself well rounded, not opinionated, and stop relying on google. 

and next time you make a post asking for peoples input on something, dont get angry when they tell YOU the facts, and try to educate you. i dont understand how someone cant know anything about a subject, but then proceed to tell people they are wrong :-| ... amazing....


----------



## AlmagroN

and, you obviously didnt read the forum rules when you started posting either. it says IN THE RULES. no text speak!


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

NorthernMama said:


> LO thats a rly bad atitde 2 hv. its 2 bad that ur opinion is the only 1 that matters 2 u. u will not learn much like that. i hope it takes u as long 2 read this as it took me 2 write it.
> 
> PLEASE - no text speak. If you are too upset to type correctly, then you are possibly too upset to think about what you are saying or absorb any of the information people are giving you. Not to be mean, but out of respect for my own time, I will no longer respond to any text speak messages. I'm done.


 
woah! sorry but you just told me no text speak! look at the 1st paragraph you wrote!


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

themacpack said:


> Do you one better, I'll go ahead and make a mental note to skip your posts because trying to interpret them is too much hassle. Perhaps if you at least had a decent attitude it would be worth it.


im glad to hear that


----------



## JustDressageIt

xLaurenOscarx said:


> woah! sorry but you just told me no text speak! look at the 1st paragraph you wrote!


She was being snarky. 

I am done with this thread as well. LO I really hope that you are more open to others' suggestions in the future, sticking your head in the sand and going "lalalalala can't heeearrrr you!" is probably not the best way to learn.
Opening yourself up to new experiences, new ideas, new thoughts and deciding for yourself which you want to believe is the best way to learn, and is going to make you a better horseperson. 
Shutting yourself off to everything but what you read on a few extremist sites on the internet (!) is doing nothing but narrowing your vision and limiting the amount of knowledge you have.

As cliche as it is, knowledge is power.

I'm out.


----------



## NorthernMama

JustDressageIt said:


> She was being snarky.


 Oh my Lordy! I just about fell off my chair laughing!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## JustDressageIt

NorthernMama said:


> Oh my Lordy! I just about fell off my chair laughing!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:










Please don't think it wasn't greatly appreciated either, NM!!


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

thought you wer leaving this thread?


----------



## tempest

So pin firing is something like acupuncture?


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

tempest said:


> So pin firing is something like acupuncture?


 
The way i believe it to be ( and i know il probly got my head bitten off) is that they stick needles in the injury to make the injury worse so the injury will heal stronger and quicker. They stick toxins and stuff that inflames the leg then the horse is stuck in 6 months box rest so you dont know if the horse went threw the 6 months for nothing as you dont know if the horse is still lame since there in a ox for 6 months. In *my *opinion its cruel.


----------



## tempest

I see where you're coming from and I respect you're opinion. So no one respond too harshly to that post, it is her opinion and everyone's opinion is different.


----------



## NicoleS11

I had never heard of "pin firing" till i went through every page of this thread. I dont know how i feel about it...on one hand i dont see myself ever getting this done to a horse so i understand why you dont agree with it LO. But on the other hand i dont know a thing about the race horse industry but i do understand why they would use pin firing if it saves money and time. So im 50/50 on the topic. I think i would have to read up a bit more on this and put myself in the shoes of some one in the industry of racing...maybe you should do the same. Think of it from a different point of view and maybe it will change your opinion a little...

but i know every one has the right to there own opinion...so if you choose to disagree with it...then right on girl! lol


----------



## tempest

I'm 50/50 too. I like to see both sides of the story, whether or not I like what I see.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

tempest said:


> I see where you're coming from and I respect you're opinion. So no one respond too harshly to that post, it is her opinion and everyone's opinion is different.


 
Thank You


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

NicoleS11 said:


> I had never heard of "pin firing" till i went through every page of this thread. I dont know how i feel about it...on one hand i dont see myself ever getting this done to a horse so i understand why you dont agree with it LO. But on the other hand i dont know a thing about the race horse industry but i do understand why they would use pin firing if it saves money and time. So im 50/50 on the topic. I think i would have to read up a bit more on this and put myself in the shoes of some one in the industry of racing...maybe you should do the same. Think of it from a different point of view and maybe it will change your opinion a little...
> 
> but i know every one has the right to there own opinion...so if you choose to disagree with it...then right on girl! lol


 
I can't change my opinion now because I've heard so many bad things about it that cancels out any good I've heard.
Thanks lol


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> The way i believe it to be ( and i know il probly got my head bitten off) is that they stick needles in the injury to make the injury worse so the injury will heal stronger and quicker. They stick toxins and stuff that inflames the leg then the horse is stuck in 6 months box rest so you dont know if the horse went threw the 6 months for nothing as you dont know if the horse is still lame since there in a ox for 6 months. In *my *opinion its cruel.


but this is my point. this is NOT what is done, so how can you possibly form an opinon about something when you do not know what it even is?


----------



## JustDressageIt

If I may make a suggestion...

Perhaps learning exactly what the procedure is before bashing it might be a good idea..?


----------



## Tennessee

Hah. I think it is funny how she was the one who wanted to know what it was in the first place, and now she is acting like she knows everything about it. 


Some people.....


----------



## AlmagroN

Tennessee said:


> Hah. I think it is funny how she was the one who wanted to know what it was in the first place, and now she is acting like she knows everything about it.
> 
> 
> Some people.....


gotta love it


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

Tennessee said:


> Hah. I think it is funny how she was the one who wanted to know what it was in the first place, and now she is acting like she knows everything about it.
> 
> 
> Some people.....


im not acting like i know everything about it! im just saying what i believe it to be *its my opinion*


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

oscars pin firing marks


----------



## vivache

I asked one of the new vets while he was out.. and he's fresh out of vet school, so he is very 'by the book' still.. and he said, while he's pretty sure it's NOT illegal in the US, it's been phased out by cryo. He said that if people think it's cruel, they obviously have not seen it done the correct way.


----------



## shesinthebarn

The pics are nor clear enough to say for sure if it's cryo or true pin-firing. Some may say that there is no difference between the two, but the difference in Canada is that one is illegal and one is not. I'm honestly leaning toward saying that those are cryo marks, but like I said, the pics are a little dark and unfocused.
I discussed this at length today with a very reputable vet/surgeon. (He works at the equine hospital at the University) His opinion is that Pin firing is more effective in treating injuries than cryo ever will be. He has never heard of any vet doing this without sedation. His opinion is that it would be impossible to do if the horse were not sedated heavily. Apparently there is discussion amongst some vets about finding a more humane way to do this proceedure (pin firing - not cryo) as it can be a last resort career saver for some animals.
I read some of those articles in the links posted by others and find them to be kind of extreme in their opinions, and they seem to stretch the facts. I hope you can step back and take a look at this from a more impartial perspective. It must be hard as it is in regards to the health and well being of your beloved horse. Try to understand, too that this was done in hopes of healing your horse - it did not cause the injury in the first place. I think that might be what is bugging some folks. However, this procedure was done before you owned him, so let it go and move on. The original post was asking for information on the procedure, and for advice on care for your horse. You have the info and don't seem to be willing to accept other peoples opinions, so look for info on how to heal his injury and keep him sound. I just don't see the point of arguing this point any more. You are not going to change your opinion and neither is anyone elso, so why try.
I truely hope you have a great outcome with your horse, that his leg heals well and you guys have years of happy trails.
Good Luck!


----------



## AlmagroN

like shesinthebarn said, those pics are just too dark an a little too blurry to tell if those are actually pinfiring or cryo.

i can also tell you that your horse was trying to bow a tendon and thats why it was done. you can see it in the pic.

but really, if you want to form an opinion about something, educate yourself. a lot of people here are telling you the FACTS about what it is, but you refuse to hear it. you just keep living in your fantasy world....


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> like shesinthebarn said, those pics are just too dark an a little too blurry to tell if those are actually pinfiring or cryo.
> 
> i can also tell you that your horse was trying to bow a tendon and thats why it was done. you can see it in the pic.
> 
> but really, if you want to form an opinion about something, educate yourself. a lot of people here are telling you the FACTS about what it is, but you refuse to hear it. you just keep living in your fantasy world....


in the picture he's walking around thats why its blurry

i will. 
i dont get why you care what i think

dont worry i will


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

JustDressageIt said:


> If I may make a suggestion...
> 
> Perhaps learning exactly what the procedure is before bashing it might be a good idea..?


i tried learning. i asked my vet and he told me that


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> in the picture he's walking around thats why its blurry
> 
> i will.
> i dont get why you care what i think
> 
> dont worry i will


i care because its people like you that will run around telling people how your horse was "abused" and such, when you dont understand what even happened. and then THOSE people are walking around with false "education" about a subject too.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

shesinthebarn said:


> The pics are nor clear enough to say for sure if it's cryo or true pin-firing. Some may say that there is no difference between the two, but the difference in Canada is that one is illegal and one is not. I'm honestly leaning toward saying that those are cryo marks, but like I said, the pics are a little dark and unfocused.
> I discussed this at length today with a very reputable vet/surgeon. (He works at the equine hospital at the University) His opinion is that Pin firing is more effective in treating injuries than cryo ever will be. He has never heard of any vet doing this without sedation. His opinion is that it would be impossible to do if the horse were not sedated heavily. Apparently there is discussion amongst some vets about finding a more humane way to do this proceedure (pin firing - not cryo) as it can be a last resort career saver for some animals.
> I read some of those articles in the links posted by others and find them to be kind of extreme in their opinions, and they seem to stretch the facts. I hope you can step back and take a look at this from a more impartial perspective. It must be hard as it is in regards to the health and well being of your beloved horse. Try to understand, too that this was done in hopes of healing your horse - it did not cause the injury in the first place. I think that might be what is bugging some folks. However, this procedure was done before you owned him, so let it go and move on. The original post was asking for information on the procedure, and for advice on care for your horse. You have the info and don't seem to be willing to accept other peoples opinions, so look for info on how to heal his injury and keep him sound. I just don't see the point of arguing this point any more. You are not going to change your opinion and neither is anyone elso, so why try.
> I truely hope you have a great outcome with your horse, that his leg heals well and you guys have years of happy trails.
> Good Luck!


thanks for your opinion
i dont know to be honest why this thread is still going because as you said no one is going 2 change opinions!

thanks


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> i care because its people like you that will run around telling people how your horse was "abused" and such, when you dont understand what even happened. and then THOSE people are walking around with false "education" about a subject too.


Whatever
Why Are You still talking on this thread anyway? ive my opinion you hhave yours. your definetly not goin 2 change mine!


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> Whatever
> Why Are You still talking on this thread anyway? ive my opinion you hhave yours. your definetly not goin 2 change mine!


you dont actually have an opinon on pinfiring since you dont even know what it is. open your eyes and stop being ignorant and bratty

and im talking on this thread for 2 reasons

1- BECAUSE I CAN
2- because hopefully someone will learn something from someone who actually knows what they are talking about


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> you dont actually have an opinon on pinfiring since you dont even know what it is. open your eyes and stop being ignorant and bratty
> 
> and im talking on this thread for 2 reasons
> 
> 1- BECAUSE I CAN
> 2- because hopefully someone will learn something from someone who actually knows what they are talking about


am i being ignoranat and bratty because im not agreeing with you?
my eyes are wide open thanks

aw well if they want 2 ask me anything about pin firing like they can just PM they dont have 2 read my comments! your very thoughtful!


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> am i being ignoranat and bratty because im not agreeing with you?
> my eyes are wide open thanks
> 
> aw well if they want 2 ask me anything about pin firing like they can just PM they dont have 2 read my comments! your very thoughtful!


nope youre ignorant and bratty because you refuse to know what pinfiring is. your eyes are wide shut. i dont believe anyone here will be asking you about it. im talking about people who you decide to tell that your horse was "abused".


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> nope youre ignorant and bratty because you refuse to know what pinfiring is. your eyes are wide shut. i dont believe anyone here will be asking you about it. im talking about people who you decide to tell that your horse was "abused".


they're 'wide shut' are they? funny how they look open to me....and i can see? weird:S
oh and you think people wil be asking you about it? look at you! you dont want anyone 2 have an opinion any different than yours coz if they're opinions differnt its wrong!! get over yourself!


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> they're 'wide shut' are they? funny how they look open to me....and i can see? weird:S
> oh and you think people wil be asking you about it? look at you! you dont want anyone 2 have an opinion any different than yours coz if they're opinions differnt its wrong!! get over yourself!


 i dont care if you think its cruel or not SO LONG AS you know the facts about what it really is. if you had known what the hell it was or how it was done, then i wouldnt have cared if you thought it was cruel or not. but for you to come on here and ask for information on something then proceed to basically tell us all you know everything and thats that, when you dont know a **** thing about it, is extremely insulting to EVERYONE on this forum trying to educate themselves and other people.


----------



## 1dog3cats17rodents

Wow thanks for the useful information from those members who care to educate themselves, not make up facts and say "OMG, its like, totally cruel, U no wha i meen?"

There's an OTTB mare in our barn with pin firing marks. They look like tiny, closely spaced pin ****** from her knee to fetlock. That would be pin firing correct? She's 13 and still doing 3ft jumps (she's 15.1hh) so I can see it doesn't hurt them in the long run.

And WTF would someone stick pins in a horses leg to make an injury worse? How dense do you have to be too believe that? If it didn't work, or at least be believed to work, who would do it?


----------



## wild_spot

As Almagron said, people don't care if you think it's cruel. That is an opinion, we can't change that, and aren't trying to. The problem is that you have based your opinion on incorrect information.

You cannot have an opinion on what pinfiring IS. Pinfiring is what it is. It's like you saying you have a different opinion on what an orange is, what a saddle is, what a horse is. A horse is a horse, pinfiring is pinfiring. The issue people have is that you aren't listening to the truth about what the procedure actually IS.

And ugh. Text speak = spew.


----------



## 1dog3cats17rodents

I'm a teenager, and I can't even read "txt speak" Just pretend you are writing for school. I highly a doubt a teacher would accept "i am listn 2 u ppl"


----------



## Saskia

Just a quick question to LO. If it comes of aggressive or anything its not meant like that, but did you actually purchase a horse with marks like that on its legs without checking it out/finding out what they were?

I mean one of the first things I look at when horse shopping are its legs, and while cryo/pin firing or whatever doesn't means the horse is unsound I would have imagined that you would have researched what these marks were from prior to purchase. 

Unless its not your horse, or it was a gift or whatever - i'm just curious.


----------



## JustDressageIt

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I'm a teenager, and I can't even read "txt speak" Just pretend you are writing for school. I highly a doubt a teacher would accept "i am listn 2 u ppl"


My friend is a teacher, she's constantly shocked at what kids hand in nowadays to pass for papers. 
Like the OP's signature - lots of wats and youus

*shudder*


----------



## Snapple122

1. Why would you ask for information on this and then totally disregard everything that people are trying to tell you. Instead, you agree with internet pages that are written by people who a) have no idea what they're talking about or b) are animal activists and think that owning horses is cruel because they are "wild animals" who should be out lying around in a field full of daisies and roses, and drinking from sparkling rivers and maybe even jumping over rainbows. Seriously.

2) I have gotten comments about how articulate my writing is in emails and stuff because I use capitals, periods, and get this- even spell words correctly and not using text speak! Ugh. Seriously..

Lyk Ok do u get te point off thisss mesage i hop u do cuz u dnt listn 2 wut othr ppl r sayin 

Not trying to be mean or anything but at least take into consideration what other educated people are trying to get through to you.


----------



## Honeysuga

Ok, so I'm probably going to have my face chewed or something but I've read like all these posts with people arguing over a procedure that, where as it IS controversial(obviously), people continue to become more and more "snarky"
and what for?Peoples opinions! So what if LO has her opinion, its an Opinion, if she is wrong shes wrong, so what if whoever considers the practice good and valuable treatment let them do it to THIER animals, its THIER OPINION on the matter. Frankly its childish to have 14 pages of argument on one little thing! Believe me i have a very strong opinion on pin firing and cryo therapies (Though a form cryotherapy ((much like what is done to the the legs of horses)) was used on my cervix to prevent cancer from continuing to grow and eat my body, and yes it hurt like hell, and it killed my cells so my body would grow new ones, but hey i dont have cancer anymore,(maybe thats a better comparison than murder?) some people might think the act of sticking a rod filled with liquid nitrogen into a womans vagina is ghastly, but thats THEIR OPINION) but lord knows i have the sense and maturity level to stay out of such a silly quarrel.
-MY OPINION- (let me repeat this so no one verbally punches me in the face, MY OPINION) is that ALL you people should be ASHAMED of yourselves for arguing like a bunch if little kiddies in the playpen! GEEZ, its like highschool vomitted up a 15 page bitchy battle of a forum!
Lord knows that probably noone on here cares about my opinion, but i thought id throw it on here just as a bit of nostalgia (thank you 10th. grade!)


----------



## JustDressageIt

I'm sorry for trying to educate and get through to a young mind.


----------



## wild_spot

Honeysuga, this is the problem:



> As Almagron said, people don't care if you think it's cruel. That is an opinion, we can't change that, and aren't trying to. The problem is that you have based your opinion on incorrect information.


I don't know much about pinfiring at all. But I get mad about any topic if someone is using false information to base an opinion on and spread the misinformation.


----------



## tempest

It looks to me like it's a form of acupuncture, but it leaves scaring. This is just something I found because I really want to know more about this.

The Horse | Pin Firing

Like it says in the article "Pin firing or thermocautery has therapeutic value for certain conditions in the horse. When done properly, the AAEP considers pin firing an acceptable form of therapy." (Johnson, Clyde. Pin Firing. TheHorse.com. 2000 October 1. par 2.)

Sorry about the in-text citation, I'm practicing for school. But it seems that if it's not done correctly it could be cruel.


----------



## Honeysuga

I meant no insult to anyone with my post, I just thought that the topic could have been handled in a much more adult manner, with people taking the higher road and not bickering angrily with a teenager(not sure how old LO is...but from all the txt spk i just assumed). Believe me, I totally understand the anger, I hate misinformation, but honestly there is a point where the only thing you are doing by arguing is just fueling the fire and further angering yourself(which as a horse person I know firsthand that more stress is the last thing we need added to our plates).
I think I'd rather have a good day and let ignorance be ignorance, opinion be opinion. And of course I'll thank anyone who gives me the shame on you speech for handling any discussion like this thread was handled (which I no doubt will have to be given seeing how passionate a person I tend to be about certain topics) 
****Sorry for the mother goose style lectures(honestly I know the last thing you guys want is a noob saying shame on you lol) but I will say it is refreshing to see people so passionate about their standpoints, controversy is what the world thrives on after all!!


----------



## Gidji

I'll be straight up honest here. I didn't know a thing about pin-firing or cryo before I read this thread. I read _all 16 pages!_ This topic has certainly created controvesy and has given me a few good laughs.

From what I've read, pin-firing doesn't seem cruel when performed correctly. I totally understand that some "so called qualified people" may perform the procedure wrong and hurt your horse. But LO, people on this thread, work in racing. They know all about firing and cryo.
No pain, no gain, I say. And the horses don't even feel that much pain when the procedure is performed.

I'm sure at some point in your life you had to receive vaccinations for childhood diseases? Needles hurt, but in the long-run its protecting you from illness. Sure, that doctor mighta been dodgy, and might not have sterile needles but thats a what;_1 in a 100,000 chance!_

I sure as heck if I worked in the racing industry, wouldn't let a dodgy vet, or a vet fresh from Uni perform pin-firing or cryo on my horses. 

LO, you totally disregarded everyone's opinions on here! These people were just trying to help and tell you their side. Imagine when your older and you have a job. What if your boss tells you something, and you totally disregard him, and go off insulting people and acting like your _"queen on the castle?" _I'm pretty sure you'd get your butt kicked outta that job.

And one last thing, text speak? I'll admit, I'm a teenager, but I feel no need to go off writing everything in text speak. Seriously, just make our reading a little easier.


----------



## AlmagroN

Gidji said:


> LO, you totally disregarded everyone's opinions on here! These people were just trying to help and tell you their side.


ya know, its not so much she disregarded everyones opinions, that i dont care. its that she disregarded FACTS and is not only forming an opinion on false information, but is (no doubt in my mind!) passing FALSE information onto other people. THIS is the part that angers me.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

Quit leaving comments here

And the comments about my writing: i dont care what way you write if your a teenager


----------



## Snapple122

If people want to reply to this thread to learn more information then you can't really stop them. This is an informative thread.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

This is an annoying thread with people commenting on how I feel and how i spell not about the actual topic


----------



## wild_spot

^ Wrong. People are commenting on the FACTS about pinfiring.


----------



## Gidji

xLaurenOscarx said:


> Quit leaving comments here
> 
> And the comments about my writing: i dont care what way you write if your a teenager


I'm a teenager, and yet _I can use proper grammar and punctuation._ I sure hope you don't write your school essays in txt spk.
And you started a topic about pin-firing, so people can discuss here.And if you don't wanna read about it, then its simple. Don't come to this thread.


----------



## AlmagroN

wow, someones a little bit of a control freak.

Gidji, i appreciate the time you took to read the whole thread before you commented too. and im glad you formed an opinion on the FACTS stated here. the more people threads like these can educate, the better.


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

Gidji said:


> I'm a teenager, and yet _I can use proper grammar and punctuation._ I sure hope you don't write your school essays in txt spk.
> And you started a topic about pin-firing, so people can discuss here.And if you don't wanna read about it, then its simple. Don't come to this thread.


 
So? Whats your point? well done you

does it matter to you what way i speak at school?


----------



## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> So? Whats your point? well done you
> 
> does it matter to you what way i speak at school?


um well if this thread angers you so bad, as you have stated before, then ignore it. there are people here giving the TRUTH about pinfiring and not just their OPINIONS that are backed by FALSE information. 

and once again, im going to tell you it says in the FORUM RULES :

*4- Please do not use excessive Net-Speak.
*Please spell out your words. For example: Say "Your" instead of "ur", and say "to" instead of "2" etc. Keep in mind, that not all members of this forum speak English as a first language, it is already hard enough for them to translate our slang terms but the net-speak makes it a lot harder for them, since there is no way to translate it. Furthermore, do not type in all caps, or in alternating caps, or use excessive exclamation points or question marks. (Example. DONT TYPE LIKE THIS oR LiKe ThIs!!!!!111!!!!!????///)


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

i didnt use any net speak in that last comment did i?


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## AlmagroN

xLaurenOscarx said:


> i didnt use any net speak in that last comment did i?


it doesnt matter. youre using it excessively and people have asked you MANY times to stop


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## xLaurenOscarx

Which I Have
And People Jst Keep Bringin It Back Up!


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## xLaurenOscarx

AlmagroN said:


> *it* doesnt matter. *youre* using it excessively and people have asked you MANY times to stop


 
Just thought I'd point out your grammar mistakes there as you've constantly pointed mine out.


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## vivache

Don't be vindictive, LO.. no one is being vindictive toward you. There's a difference between typing like a kitty walked across your keyboard and not using an apostrophe or the shift.


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## xLaurenOscarx

I'm not typing like that though am i?
People are over exagerating!


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## Sunny06

Should've known there was a fight going on with all the activity being on this thread lately.

Get over yourselves. For crying out loud, you 2 don't even know each other. So how do you have the right to be talking about each other so badly?


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## xLaurenOscarx

Im just standing up for what I think. Other people dont agree with my opinion so they give out about it


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## Sunny06

Not only that, but you are flat-out insulting.

Through all this bickering I was never able to find out what pin-firing is. What is it?


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## xLaurenOscarx

Sunny06 said:


> Not only that, but you are flat-out insulting.
> 
> Through all this bickering I was never able to find out what pin-firing is. What is it?


 
Sorry But How Am I Insulting???

Thats What Every1s Bickering Over. *In My Opinion*(No1 Go Crazy At Me For This) Its Cruel But Other People Dont Think It is.


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## Sunny06

*What is it?*


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## xLaurenOscarx

Sunny06 said:


> *What is it?*


People sticking needles with acid in a horses leg if they've done injury and it makes the injury worse so the injury heals stronger. Look at the 1st page of the thread and there's some links


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## Sunny06

Interesting. I fail to see the problem.


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## xLaurenOscarx

Sunny06 said:


> Interesting. I fail to see the problem.


Did you read the thread?? Obviosly not! Go read it then comment


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## Sunny06

> LO, you can read lots of stuff on how pinfiring is terrible and abusive and painful to the horse... but it has been proven to help heal a horse so they're sound again;


Therefore, I don't see the problem.


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## xLaurenOscarx

Sunny06 said:


> Therefore, I don't see the problem.




Thats Only 1 Side Of It


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## AztecBaby

xLaurenOscarx said:


> People sticking needles with acid in a horses leg if they've done injury and it makes the injury worse* so the injury heals stronger*. Look at the 1st page of the thread and there's some links


Umm hello, THE INJURY HEALS SO THE HORSE IS SOUND AGAIN!

That is a good thing.. No racehorse owner wants a bunch of un-sound horses most just get sent to auction or given away. It's in the horses best intrests to make it sound again.


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## wild_spot

> Thats What *Every1s* Bickering Over. In My Opinion(*No1* Go Crazy At Me For This)





> Thats Only *1* Side Of It


It makes my brain hurt.


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## vivache

If it makes the injury heal stronger, what's the big deal? It hurts for, like.. what, a few hours? It's usually only skin-deep.. it's not like they're burning to the bone. (It doesn't look like they use *acid* by the way.. just heat.. acid would pretty much destroy the tendon.)

Don't people stick needles into their skin all the time(acupuncture) to help their health? 

Look at it this way-- if your horse hadn't been pinfired, do you think you would have that horse, with him being sound with his bowed tendon?


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## farmpony84

There is a lot of good information in this thread but I think it's run it's "useful" course. If anyone has further questions regarding this subject, feel free to start a fresh thread.


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