# First time out



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Congratulations! 

I don’t understand your comment about your trainer’s program.....and being able to hide issues. I don’t see how your trainers program has anything to do with it. Could you explain further?

I assume Tyra is feeling way better if you are out there showing....yay!!


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

greentree said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> I don’t understand your comment about your trainer’s program.....and being able to hide issues. I don’t see how your trainers program has anything to do with it. Could you explain further?
> 
> I assume Tyra is feeling way better if you are out there showing....yay!!


It's interesting you ask this because I thought a lot about it today. I told my grand prix trainer how we did and I think she was a little disappointed in us, mostly because she knows the "secrets" to getting the good scores and we did none of them.

I am starting to understand my trainer's philosophy and point.
1) She lowered the bit substantially in Tyra's mouth. That did 2 things: a) she had a choice: take the contact or don't and b) if she was going to take the contact it meant my hands were completely still. If she didn't take the contact it is because my connection was not giving her confidence and she would be hit in the mouth.

So it was a test to see how my hands were. Lo and behold she didn't want to take the contact. The way I used to ride, the bit was higher in her mouth so it was not as mobile. Therefore my lack of feel in my hands was not as obvious because there wasn't as much movement in the bit, so she could take a stronger contact.

2) The noseband was also very loose. This goes back to point 1.

3) Because my trainer is discouraging me from using my hands (and seat) for that matter as breaks, coming out of the canter circles left us out of control. Because the bit was low and because she was not truly "on it" and therefore not on the aids, it was quite a ride back to the center line.

I think this was to get me to see that a) I have an INCREDIBLE horse to be achieving 60% because b) I basically suck.

I'm not upset about this. Although she basically sent me into the ring with a red nose and clown shoes, who really won yesterday was Tyra. If I can sharpen myself up and control my body better, we can EASILY get higher scores and maybe in the 70s.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

I'm happy things went well for you. 



Here is some advice I read about showing. Smile! If you frown when you know you and your horse did something badly judges are more likely to notice than if you smile as if you were pleased with your performance.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

@TXhorseman - there were smiles all around, don't worry! Considering I felt both of our rides were 50s, mainly because my riding was so bad, I was shocked that we got into the 60s saved by my mount's talent and love of performing!


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Aww, so glad to hear things went well.


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## Willrider (Oct 25, 2018)

Nice job at the show! Glad to hear she didn’t spook in the ring!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

thecolorcoal said:


> 3) Because my trainer is discouraging me from using my hands (and seat) for that matter as breaks, coming out of the canter circles left us out of control. Because the bit was low and because she was not truly "on it" and therefore not on the aids, it was quite a ride back to the center line.
> .



So what do you use as ‘brakes’ ? Take away seat and hands and I am wondering?


Obviously the mare is feeling a lot better before you are out showing.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Your trainer seems to be offering you some very odd advice
You really do need to have effective brakes in any horses but particularly when you're working in a tight area like a dressage arena where you're making transitions and turns you need a responsive horse at all times.
It isn't just about the marks its about your horse's welfare as getting it wrong can easily cause leg and muscle injuries


I assume you're having the horse's serum CK levels closely monitored if you're competing again?
I was wondering if you supplement Vit D since your horse spends so much time in a stable its deprived of its natural source from sunlight? Vit D deficiency can cause muscle wastage if its prolonged.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

60% is a respectable score.

Was your trainer trying to mean to stop riding with the hand break on? If you dont use your hand to slow, you need your seat at least. And if she follow French classical principals, there is a clear distinction between the hand and leg aids, with the hand being used for up and back motions, including stopping and slowing.

I'd also caution you about dropping the bit just because. Not all horses can handle a loose, low bit. Especially tb mares. A high but doesn't mean forced contact, it's not the same as a tight noseband.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't get this comment :


"I'm not upset about this. Although she basically sent me into the ring with a red nose and clown shoes, who really won yesterday was Tyra. If I can sharpen myself up and control my body better, we can EASILY get higher scores and maybe in the 70s."


Are you sure your trainer does not come to this forum? and read stuff.


You should be happy with those scores, they are very good. my old trainer told me that I could not advance to the next level until I had gotten a 70% on the current level. She was a very difficult person to work with. Very knowledgeable and very focussed on keeping the horse healthy and happy and working CORRECTLY as per the traditional scale of progression.


WE eventually had a falling out, and I left showing, but I never blamed HER for any problems I had in the show ring. I credit her for leaving me with a 'the horse first' approach, even though I no longer show at all.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

ApuetsoT said:


> I'd also caution you about dropping the bit just because. Not all horses can handle a loose, low bit. Especially tb mares. A high but doesn't mean forced contact, it's not the same as a tight noseband.



Like anything it’s individual to all horses, I found out by accident that my old Appy liked his bit one hole each side lower than I would ever of set it. Fergie hated a low bit.

Thing that confuses me, was this an experiment at the show? That’s what it sounds like, but that is a dangerous place to experiment with any sort of tack changes.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

@*jaydee* , again, i don't think that you exactly understand what we call a "stall" out here.


for most people, this is what a stall is:










*where i am from these do not exist.*

*THIS is a stall. vvv *doesn't look like the horses are lacking movement and sunlight to me?













There have been some other serious issues with this trainer so we have decided to leave her program, and I am riding with the gold medalist trainer again whom i feel more comfortable with.

@*tinyliny* , i would feel happy if I felt that *her and i* had earned the scores at that show. But I was not set up for success. There were comments on the tests that shouldn't have been there, because Trainer A and I eliminated them before my now ex-trainer dismissed them.


In my opinion, you do not say that someone, who has much more experience and success than you, is wrong. they have gotten to where they have gotten with their own style and therefore that doesn't discredit them. But someone who is claiming "her way is bad and my way is the only way" has some serious confidence issues in their methods.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

What you are calling a 'stall' isn't anything I've ever heard anyone call a stall in the US before. 
It looks like a typical small dry lot area off an actual stall that opens into a regular barn on the other side
The horse does have sunlight if it stands out there long enough - has hay all the time out there - but it doesn't have anything like enough space for a horse to move around properly the way they can on acreage with grass.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

jaydee said:


> What you are calling a 'stall' isn't anything I've ever heard anyone call a stall in the US before.
> It looks like a typical small dry lot area off an actual stall that opens into a regular barn on the other side
> The horse does have sunlight if it stands out there long enough - has hay all the time out there - but it doesn't have anything like enough space for a horse to move around properly the way they can on acreage with grass.



That's exactly what it is. *We call this a stall*. I don't know of a single place outside of full-training barns that provide a *box stall*. It is the same as schools. We don't have INDOOR schools in California, we have OUTDOOR schools. It doesn't snow here. We also don't have turnout. We have barbed wire pasture with no grass or stalls (read, box stall with a run). So now that that terminology is cleaned up. 



The hay is tied OUTSIDE and she stands out there from 6am to about 11pm eating, only coming inside if it is too hot or to drink.


If you want me to take pictures of my *stall* i am happy to send them to you. No vitamin d deficiency here.


I have *never* seen a barn that provides *12x12 box stalls* and does not have a turn-out program.


You'll just have to tell Google, Apple and Stanford to stop building if you are hoping CA will get grass pastures one day. :biggrin: I think you are thinking a bit too idealistic.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

also to add that out here in CA we call *this *a dry-lot including the mud:


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## Horsinaround 0830 (Nov 1, 2018)

OMG stupid people! but congrats for you and your horse!


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Glad Tyra is better? Recovered fast at least. Your pictures aren't showing up for me? It is just blank so I googled trying to see what you meant. I clicked on around 20 boarding facilities in CA as if I was a potential boarder (and coz I wanted to cry at some of the prices....) I see what you mean - the dry lots (we call any plot of land without grazing a "dry lot", see the misunderstanding?). Some facilities in CA call them "outdoor runs with shelter" or also call them "outdoor stables" or "outdoor stalls" or a "stall with dry lot" or "paddock with shelter". Just so many ways to give a headache ahaha I understand the confusion. Plenty with turnout though and covered arenas. For what it's worth most arenas even HERE are just glorified shelters with bad lighting... So, there ARE places with turnout and indoor/covered arenas in california just maybe you don't have access to them for whatever reason. Trust, I'm not able to keep my horse in what I deem OPTIMAL housing because I can't just up and move house and change jobs with a snap of my fingers. No shame. Own it. If you're doing the best you can you're doing the best you can. Just like the rest of us. Just take what is said under advisement. I sure as hell prefer an owner that TRIES. I've seen neglected and abused horses that had plenty turnout but we cannot deny that it is hard to meet the top standard we all wish for our horses. I know since your other threads that I'm gona try find a proper equine nutitionist, preferably without an agenda because what a headache it is and now I'm all paranoid myself. Thinking about vit D and the cr*p weather about to come... never even thought of that tbh until this thread even though it's so obvious...



As for your trainers. Yeah, I've met people like that. I was once meant to be mentored by a BIG NAME DOG TRAINER for a contract. Well, his dogs were amazing. Really, they did their job 10/10. But he kicked them in their intact testicles whenever they did something that displeased him. You sure bet I told him to his face he was wrong. Yeah, MY way is wayyyyyyyyyy better. MY WAY got the same results minus all the abuse. You bet he was wrong. What he did was wrong for a lot of normal people. *But you cannot deny that his methods worked. He was famous, afterall, right?
*

That leaves you, as an adult, to decide what is best. You ready to decide yet?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Quite honestly I would rather not have a horse at all than keep it confined to such a small area all its life - its about the size of two stables if you include your covered area/stall. 
That sort of set up will only work if the horse is getting taken out several times a day for some form of exercise, ridden, lunged. hand walked, mechanical horse walker.
Anything less is bad for the horse the feet, muscles, circulatory system, lungs etc and the mind.
Its those sort of conditions that result in things like cribbing and other stress induced conditions - like the RER your horse is suffering from. Its also a common cause of food aggression.
I was able to find places with covered arenas and larger turnout areas, I also found plenty that had post and rail, not barbed wire


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I am confused about the stall issue still as only the first picture is showing up of a regular stall. 

Could you please post the picture of the paddock/dry lot/ stall with run/whatever she is actually in? That might help clear up the confusion...at least for me.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

thecolorcoal said:


> also to add that out here in CA we call *this *a dry-lot including the mud:


I would call this a dry lot or paddock too. The term "dry lot" means without grass i.e. ground only, no forage. It does not signify the actual type of footing or the moisture content...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

thecolorcoal said:


> That's exactly what it is. *We call this a stall*. I don't know of a single place outside of full-training barns that provide a *box stall*. It is the same as schools. We don't have INDOOR schools in California, we have OUTDOOR schools. It doesn't snow here. We also don't have turnout. We have barbed wire pasture with no grass or stalls (read, box stall with a run). So now that that terminology is cleaned up.
> 
> *The terminology is not "cleared up for me because I only see the first picture of a stall
> *
> ...


*My comments are in RED and BOLDED *


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

AnitaAnne said:


> *My comments are in RED and BOLDED *


I had to hop over to Safari and click on the broken link icon. I got the image address:

http://elijahpark.com/luckystraw/north runs.jpg

It's like a box stall without walls and roof.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

mmshiro said:


> I had to hop over to Safari and click on the broken link icon. I got the image address:
> 
> http://elijahpark.com/luckystraw/north runs.jpg
> 
> It's like a box stall without walls and roof.


Thank you! I would call that a stall with an attached 12x24 (+/-) open run. More comfortable for the horse than just a stall, but should still have turnout. 


Have attached the picture you linked to so others don't have to go chasing it.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

This is a type of open stall/pipe corral commonly seen in hot, dry areas


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Thanks AnitaAnne
I'm confused as to whether the OP is calling the whole set up a stall or the small dry lot area a stall?
A dry lot can be any size - it just means it doesn't have any grass on it.
Yes - plenty of places that have stables/stalls with no access to an outdoor area

I'd be inclined to describe it as a stall with a run out area as opposed to an open outdoor area with a run in shed!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This is a lot of discussion on a minor point, IYAM.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> This is a lot of discussion on a minor point, IYAM.


I can't speak for the others, but I do get a little OCD at times...on resumes I call it "detail oriented" :Angel:

Now I am stuck on what IYAM means...In Your?


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

^^I had to google, lol. It means "if you ask me"


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

AnitaAnne said:


> Now I am stuck on what IYAM means...In Your?



If you ask me.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

thecolorcoal said:


> It is the same as schools. We don't have INDOOR schools in California, we have OUTDOOR schools. It doesn't snow here..


No indoor school? Isn't that a little uncomfortable for the professors? I would revolt if I was a parent...or move somewhere the school district can afford a building! Jeez. 



thecolorcoal said:


> We also don't have turnout. We have barbed wire pasture with no grass or stalls (read, box stall with a run). So now that that terminology is cleaned up.


Wait, barbed wire? The picture used pipe for the outdoor run...are you saying your horse is in an area that small in barbed wire??? OMG


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

JoBlueQuarter said:


> ^^I had to google, lol. It means "if you ask me"





Golden Horse said:


> If you ask me.


Thanks for clearing that up y'all!! My mind was going in a totally different direction :redface:


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

As was mine before I googled, LOL :lol:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I’m just happy when my mind is moving...then a touch of inside leg to outside hand I can persuade it in the right direction.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think understanding what an OP means (terminology) is very important when a lot of the discussions they start involve health problems that can be a direct result or certainly strongly affected by the horse's living conditions.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> I’m just happy when my mind is moving...then a touch of inside leg to outside hand I can persuade it in the right direction.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I should not have used abbreviations. my bad.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

AnitaAnne said:


> No indoor school? Isn't that a little uncomfortable for the professors?...


fftopic:​ 
Just a historical note from someone fascinated by history:









Remarkable photos show how FRESH AIR was used to stop the spread of TB in early 20th century schools​


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

I'd be pretty pleased with 60s it means you're in the right level. Room for improvement but clear grasp of the concepts. 

Let me know when you get to join the 49% club. It happens to all of us on those rides that are just this side of a DQ. Usually pretty memorable. I can remember mine where I got 3 consecutive 2's for bucking and then a 9 directly following for our canter depart. I believe the comment was "shocking recovery" every now and again I go back and look at the test because it was so so funny. 

In some sense we show for the scores, but eventually in order to kill show nerves you have to walk in to the ring with the thought "I am here to ride whatever horse that appears underneath me irregardless of how the warmup went" and maybe constantly whispering to yourself as you blow another simple "I don't care. I don't care. I don't care.". I love to show
I really miss it, but I don't much remember the scores, I remembe galloping out the horse the night before, I remember going into the warmup with a good friend, I remember camping at the showgrounds wrapped in a horse blanket, I remember thunderstorm braiding with Rocket, I remember my trainers grin when we got the insane 17hh TB into the ring for the first time (that was quite the triumph) even if we got DQ'ed two minutes later. The experience is the culmination of a winter of conditioning and shoeing and diet and grooming- and sink or swim it's fun. 

Is your mare still colicking everyday? Hopefully she is doing a lot better to be out showing, since it is a super stressful environment. I've had horses that were not prone to colicking have a minor case in a new stall at a new place. And it has to be monitored pretty closely, especially a high strung TB.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

@*lostastirrup* , I've discussed this in another thread but we found out there was never any colic. The trip to the hospital and the colics that we had for a week were all tie-ups, the common denominator being turnout. When I stopped putting her in the arena to run with the young mare and regulated her exercise to the hotwalker and handwalking, or arena time without other horses present, they stopped altogether. Adding the vitamin e and selenium also helped a ton.


I think that the connection between my horse being a tb and high strung is the wrong one. Just because she is a thoroughbred does not automatically mean she is anxious or excitable. She is neither. We have her diet under control now and feedxl has helped a ton, but she remains incredibly quiet and focused. Her personality is the LEAST "thoroughbredy" i've ever come across.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> Wait, barbed wire? The picture used pipe for the outdoor run...are you saying your horse is in an area that small in barbed wire??? OMG





No, but I boarded at a place that had BARBED WIRE PASTURES. The stalls are *pipe corral* stalls.


A lot of people cannot even imagine barbed wire pastures but they are common out here and they are the reason trying to adopt a horse is impossible - none of the rescues will adopt out to barns with barbed wire pastures.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> This is a type of open stall/pipe corral commonly seen in hot, dry areas



IMO this stall is much to small...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

thecolorcoal said:


> No, but I boarded at a place that had BARBED WIRE PASTURES. The stalls are *pipe corral* stalls.
> 
> 
> A lot of people cannot even imagine barbed wire pastures but they are common out here and they are the reason trying to adopt a horse is impossible - none of the rescues will adopt out to barns with barbed wire pastures.


My horses are in barbed wire as are most horse here in the deep south. I only know of a couple of places that don't have barbed wire, and they are private barns not boarder barns. 

My boarder/friend's horse was adopted...so some rescues DO ALLOW barbed wire. They approved the facility based on pictures and inspected in person after the mare moved in.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

thecolorcoal said:


> @*lostastirrup* , I've discussed this in another thread but we found out there was never any colic. The trip to the hospital and the colics that we had for a week were all tie-ups, the common denominator being turnout.


 I've seen horses have colic episodes and I've seen horses tie up and the two don't even look remotely alike so I find this confusing
Anxiety is now believed to be a major contributor to 'tying up'
Your mare also cribs which is another strong indicator of anxiety. The cribbing is a sort of stress reliever and preventing them from cribbing can be a negative


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

jaydee said:


> I've seen horses have colic episodes and I've seen horses tie up and the two don't even look remotely alike so I find this confusing
> Anxiety is now believed to be a major contributor to 'tying up'
> Your mare also cribs which is another strong indicator of anxiety. The cribbing is a sort of stress reliever and preventing them from cribbing can be a negative


I agree, and a vet should know the difference.


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