# America



## Ellieandrose (Apr 27, 2012)

So, ever since I was little(well littler) I have adored America!  I love the western scene you guys have over there. Here in the capital of Australia we are all pretty ride english. I am at every rodeo around Canberra. One day I hope to take me, my horse and my dog over to live in America. To shorten that all up **** I love you guys!


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## KeepCalmAndTrotOn (Oct 31, 2012)

Its got pros and cons believe me. Not everyone rides western, tons of english riders everywhere. Depending on what state you live in, you might want to reconsider. Lol. Depending on you. And New York City isn't very western, I've been there a few times. Thats where my dad lives. And a friend of mine has a retired champion showjumper from there. I mean, we are the Land of the Brave and Home of the Free.


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## Ellieandrose (Apr 27, 2012)

I know but you laws seem to be much less strict for example in Australia it's illegal to not vote. I was looking at western saddles the other day, or at least I tried to. All western saddle around Canberra I could find were synthetic. All horses that live around here are just Arabs, TB's and Warmbloods. Like c'mon were are all the barrel racing qh and appys? Hahahaha


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## KeepCalmAndTrotOn (Oct 31, 2012)

You want barrel racers move to Nevada. But its against the law to talk on your phone here, lol. We've got a bit of a reining buzz, it seems. And we have some crime. I think my favorite part about it all is the states. Such versatility. I like living here, don't get me wrong. But you got to watch where you live.


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## littrella (Aug 28, 2010)

just remember, the grass ins't always greener on the other side!


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## WyomingRallyRacer (May 2, 2012)

It you want rodeos and cowboys and all that. Wyoming is a good place to be.
Tons of open space.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Ellieandrose said:


> I know but you laws seem to be much less strict for example in Australia it's illegal to not vote. I was looking at western saddles the other day, or at least I tried to. All western saddle around Canberra I could find were synthetic. All horses that live around here are just Arabs, TB's and Warmbloods. Like c'mon were are all the barrel racing qh and appys? Hahahaha


Hey now, we have Arabs that barrel race, too! Most can't hold a candle to the QHs, I must concede. I wish we had laws that made it illegal not to vote, so many have died for us to have that right. It can be confusing and down right aggravating to choose one idiot, I mean candidate over another but it is important to get your voice heard. Hope you can make your way over here and ride the open ranges!


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I always wanted to be in the West here, too. I made it. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else now, but it's not always easy.

I think many places up here would suit you, if you can find work. If you need to work, I guess. My favorites are in northern Nevada and eastern Wyoming.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

We have Arabs, TBs and WBs, and the east coast of the US is primarily English riding. The west and midwest states are where you'll find most of the Western disciplines.

As far as it being illegal to talk on cellphones, that's only while driving without a hands free device, and only in some states. Texting while driving is illegal in every state, but not talking. It's also not a Federal law, each state has their own laws about cellphones.

It's illegal NOT to vote in Oz? How the heck do they enforce something like that?


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> We have Arabs, TBs and WBs, and the east coast of the US is primarily English riding. The west and midwest states are where you'll find most of the Western disciplines.
> 
> As far as it being illegal to talk on cellphones, that's only while driving without a hands free device, and only in some states. Texting while driving is illegal in every state, but not talking. It's also not a Federal law, each state has their own laws about cellphones.
> 
> It's illegal NOT to vote in Oz? How the heck do they enforce something like that?


Love your avatar


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

myhorsesonador said:


> Love your avatar


Thanks. That's exactly the reaction I'd have if someone said 'vegan Thanksgiving' to me! :lol:


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## Joidigm (May 8, 2012)

Haha grass is always greener. I know a few whom were threatening to move to Australia (never mind Canada) because of this election.

Honestly, finding what where, depends on what circles you travel in. Like in south Mississippi area for example. Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana are pretty hard core old school Hunter types, with plugs of Polo and Polocrosse. However, Western Trail, Western Horsemanship/Equitation and such are trying to make a come back. Now Tennessee is hit or miss. SW TN is heavy Hunter and Gaited territory, but there is a lot of western here too (Barrels, Cows, Donkey Penning, Team Penning, etc). East TN is a heavy Gaited hitter as far as I know. North Mississippi is Fox Hunting territory, and has a few Polo farms.

So you really have to research where you want to be. Even though areas in the NE around Massachusetts and Connecticut are heavy Eventing circles, and New York and New Jersey are major racehorse zones, it is a different area of living with a really heavy horse zone than compared to the Mid South area. There is a lot of money up that way and a different cost and expectation of living. I'd find Texas and Colorado possibly comparable on the Western compliment.

If I had to pick anywhere in the states for horse anything though, it would probably be Florida. Florida is horse central now between West Palm Beach, Gainesville, Ocala, and I think maybe Sarasota. It's the new home for Hunters, Eventers, Dressage, Natural Horsemanship, Racing, and probably most of the Western disciplines as well, especially on the cow and ranch end of things. Mostly because everyone winters down there, but many stay all year around.


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## KeepCalmAndTrotOn (Oct 31, 2012)

My step dad got a $300 dollar ticket while talking on his cellphone, he lives there. Lol,


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

If you have an unlimited income, which is likely to continue Ellieandrose, then move to the US by all means. If not, then I suggest you visit and do some travelling. The US isn't like the movies. It's difficult to get a clear view of any country, unless one has visited often and travelled quite a bit. 

America is in trouble. No doubt about it. Millions out of work. Very high crime. Terrible gang and drug problems in cities and finding their way into smaller towns too. 

Thousands have had to part with their horses and many, even their dogs after losing their homes. Small farmers watching their farms go to auction after being in the family for generations. Whole streets of empty homes in many areas, because people have lost their jobs and can no longer afford to keep their homes. 

We have relatives in Australia, who used to visit regularly but they'd never actually move here. I have lived and worked all over the US. There is some fabulous country here, if you can afford to live and work there. But there is also extreme poverty here and getting worse. Most will not see it and especially if you live in another country. In southern California, where everything is expensive, we have a huge population of families living out in the desert or under bridges, with no homes at all. Many are educated people who have lost their jobs and homes. 

If you have education and expertise in work that is highly desired and going unfilled in the US, then I suspect you could find work here and make a living. If not, then I'd suggest visiting here many times, before deciding on a move.

Lizzie


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## KeepCalmAndTrotOn (Oct 31, 2012)

FeatheredFeet said:


> If you have an unlimited income, which is likely to continue Ellieandrose, then move to the US by all means. If not, then I suggest you visit and do some travelling. The US isn't like the movies. It's difficult to get a clear view of any country, unless one has visited often and travelled quite a bit.
> 
> America is in trouble. No doubt about it. Millions out of work. Very high crime. Terrible gang and drug problems in cities and finding their way into smaller towns too.
> 
> ...


Very well said.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

FeatheredFeet said:


> If you have an unlimited income, which is likely to continue Ellieandrose, then move to the US by all means. If not, then I suggest you visit and do some travelling. The US isn't like the movies. It's difficult to get a clear view of any country, unless one has visited often and travelled quite a bit.
> 
> America is in trouble. No doubt about it. Millions out of work. Very high crime. Terrible gang and drug problems in cities and finding their way into smaller towns too.
> 
> ...


That's painting a rather dim picture. Perhaps much of what you say is true in Southern California, but the left coast doesn't represent the nation.

Unlimited income? The median price of a house in the poster's hometown, Canberra, is over $500,000. In all of Australia it is $459,000. In the US it is $184,000. The median household income in the US is $52,000. In Australia it is $44,000. Gasoline is much cheaper, food is about the same.

While every country and every town has its positives and negatives, the "unlimited income" statement is rather uninformed. Perhaps it takes unlimited income in Southern California, but Southern California is hardly representative of the US...


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

KeepCalmAndTrotOn said:


> My step dad got a $300 dollar ticket while talking on his cellphone, he lives there. Lol,


While talking on his cell phone WHILE DRIVING. It's the same as the difference between having a couple of beers while he's home watching TV, and having those beers when he's driving down the freeway.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Ellieandrose said:


> I was looking at western saddles the other day, or at least I tried to. All western saddle around Canberra I could find were synthetic.


So why wouldn't you want a synthetic saddle? Compare the weight of one (mine's 17 lbs) against the 30 lbs or more of a traditional one, and think of your poor horse having to carry around those extra pounds all day.

On the original question, the US is a big and diverse place. Around here (northern Nevada & northeastern California) there are people who do showing and stuff, but most just go out and trail ride.


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## Joidigm (May 8, 2012)

Im in an area where you could be decently off with 30,000 a year. Very well off with 50,000 a year. My house is in the 30-40k range, 3bdr 1 bath, on 1/2 an acre of land. Thats cheap as dirt from where I am originally from in New Jersey where I grew up 3bdr 1 bath 2 floor on less than a 1/4 acre is worth 300k or better and you need at least 60,000 a year to do decent. Taxes are worlds apart as well (difference between a few hundred to several thousand).

This country is so big the next state over can be worlds away.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

I think it is funny and ironic the amount of people trying to get out of the United States and the amount dreaming about it and wanting to get in. If I lived in another country and wanted to move to the United States I would at least wait 4 more years. As much as I love my country and was once very proud to be an American I am ashamed of many of our recent decisions and I believe America (as we know it) is on a fast downward spiral. I'm not trying to say America is all bad though. We have many,many freedoms that we take for granted that many parts of the world have never had and likely never will. Sadly, I don't believe our freedoms will last and America will just become another country...not the highly dramatized "land of the free". Our "freedoms" are slowly being stolen from us while most of America is distracted with smaller,but very publicized issues so they don't notice. I'm not trying to be a pessimistic doom and gloomer... Just a passing opinion...from a very concerned citizen of a place I no longer wish to live.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I really meant, an unlimited 'source' of income, Faceman. I should have made that clear.

I must say I have several American friends, who I've lost to other countries. I also think that many in other countries, have a distorted view of America. I know all my rellies in the UK, are doing better than we are here. They have their pensions and free health care, yet for some reason, some still think we live in the lap of luxury here. I worked most of my adult life in the US. A few years ago, when gangs took over our lovely little street, we had to move overnight, in fear for our lives. We could no longer pay our mortgage, since we couldn't live in the house, so lost our good credit and the hundreds of thousands of dollars, we had put into that home. Losing everything, almost destroyed us and certainly had a terrible effect on our health. If it had not been for our daughter who took us in, I can't imagine what would have happened to us. 

I do think some states are worse off than others. California is now 16 billion dollars in dept. Our school teachers are being fired by the thousands, yet more children enter schools each year. Our schools are falling down. Some with no doors on the bathrooms. 

If one doesn't speak Spanish, it is difficult to get a decent job here. As with other border states, we spend millions on trying to teach the children who don't speak English and who have come across the border illegally, with their parents. Arizona and Texas suffer similarly. 

Our Social Security is being taken away, little by little, yearly. Try living on less than $900 a month SS, in S. California. Thank God for the dollar stores. If it were not for our daughter (who owns Harlequin farms) and who helps us out, I hate to think where we would be. And she has now sold almost all her horses and is having to move. She was one of the school teachers who also lost her job three years ago. I don't know about other states these days, but I can only say it's incredibly difficult to live in California these days.

Strangely enough, the other day, a woman hearing my English accent, asked if I was happy to be in America and be 'free'!! Just shows what people don't know about other countries. 

Lizzie


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Wow what a strange direction this conversation has taken. 

As a none American who has lived here for 11 years now, I love this country. There is no utopia anywhere in the world, it's unreasonable to expect that somewhere would be perfect. The majority of the world is in a recession, so I can't imagine wanting to jump ship because of something like that, or politics. 

Heck I am not even American, and I work to improve my community in any way I can. 

Happy Veteran's Day everyone.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

It is getting bad in America. I lived in So Cal, & saw that I couldn't go on the way I was.So, I sold my house & bought in AZ. I really looked at the property taxes & made a buying decision to where I could afford it (1/5th of what I used to pay) & that has helped. But our dollar stores really aren't-there are many things that are priced much higher & food is more expensive also. Gas & DMV fees are much better, but when it's hot -it's scorching & when it's cold (like now)-well-I have lots of layers on & a small fire going & LOTS of blankets on the bed. Life is a struggle & I really miss what I used to have. And I only see it getting a lot worse unless I'm lucky enough to win a lottery. LOL!


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I think, AlexS, that few are always happy with the politics in their country. I certainly wouldn't jump ship because of politics and I do follow politics in the US, fairly closely. I do think in many countries, including the US, there is a lot of waste, the money of which, could be better served in different ways. I don't think anyone thinks a new place will be a utopa. Every country and area, has their good and not-so-good places. There are still some wonderful areas in S. California, IF you can afford to live there. 

Years ago when I was young, people seldom ventured far from home and hardly ever visited other countries. Now of course, it is very different. The internet has also brought most of us, much closer. 

For anyone thinking of moving within the US, there is a good place to find data about different cities and areas.

Stats about all US cities - real estate, relocation info, crime, house prices, cost of living, races, home value estimator, recent sales, income, photos, schools, maps, weather, neighborhoods, and more

Cacowgirl.
Arizona was my first home, when I came to the US. I really loved it there. 

Lizzie


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

AlexS said:


> Wow what a strange direction this conversation has taken.
> 
> As a none American who has lived here for 11 years now, I love this country. There is no utopia anywhere in the world, it's unreasonable to expect that somewhere would be perfect. The majority of the world is in a recession, so I can't imagine wanting to jump ship because of something like that, or politics.
> 
> ...


And that is the heritage of Americans - working to help improve it. Our heritage is not taking our dollies and running home when the game doesn't go exactly as we think it should. I am as concerned about the direction we are going as anyone - likely more concerned than most. But running away from a problem is rarely the most prudent choice. It is one thing to leave one's country for opportunity and/or adventure, but quite another to run away from problems when we have the power in our hands to solve those problems. There is a reason people around the world want to come here...it is sad to see Americans take their freedoms and privileges for granted. I suspect if Scottie beamed them to any number of other countries for a few years they would come back with a different perspective...


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I really meant, an unlimited 'source' of income, Faceman. I should have made that clear.


Ah so...


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

There is a reason people around the world want to come here...

The problem is Faceman, that hundreds of thousands come here _illegally _and nothing really has been done to stop it. I had to jump through many hoops, when coming here from England. All kinds of trips to London to have my health checked. Background checks and more. Shots against diseases which were unknown in England. And yet now, I see people coming here from across the border illegally, getting all kinds of perks, purely because they have children, filling up our hospitals and not being able to pay, while we - the taxpayers, must foot the bill for it all. I hope you can understand, why it makes so many of us very unhappy. 

Lizzie


​


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

FeatheredFeet;1753556
[B said:


> The problem is Faceman, that hundreds of thousands come here _illegally _and nothing really has been done to stop it.[/B] .* And yet now, I see people coming here from across the border illegally, getting all kinds of perks, purely because they have children, filling up our hospitals and not being able to pay, while we - the taxpayers, must foot the bill for it all. I hope you can understand, why it makes so many of us very unhappy. *



This is a HUGE problem in America. And honestly,frustratingly, and sadly one of the direct causes of our crashing economic system. Of course so many Americans don't want to work. The harder they work and the more they earn and become more successful the more the government steps in and decides they shouldn't get what they earned so they take it and give it to illegals and the people just want to live off the system. I know there are exceptions and special circumstances in some cases. I'm not putting a canvas over the whole thing. But the way our government is dealing with these kinds of things is so wrong and so far gone that I really truly don't believe we are ever going to get it back.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

There's a very good reason, why those in northern California, want to become a separate state and not be involved in all the troubles we suffer in S. Cal. 

Lizzie


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

Norther CA. and So. Oregon combined....I'm all for the State of Jefferson 


http://www.jeffersonstate.com/


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I've also lived in Oregon. :wink:

Lizzie


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## Joidigm (May 8, 2012)

Here in Memphis, there is a different view of Mexicans. They are some of the hardest working people I know. They earn every penny they work for. I am all for legalizing them if it means they pay taxes, but that is my only issue. I wish I didnt have to pay taxes lol. But I have seen entire neighborhoods improve because of Mexicans. Compared to most of the black population here, many of whom try to eek the system, I would rather be in a Mexican neighborhood. It is a safer and healthier community to be honest. Many dont speak english very well, but they try. I can passingly understand their point, which is good enough for me. I grew up around immigrant Polish and Hindu groups, so it isnt like Im not used to a language barrier. And really, its not like the poor 'Americans' in this area speak great english to begin with.

And it is true that they are willing to do jobs most are not. If they want to make a decent living, they have too. And that is okay by me. Who am I to say they cant be here and make a better life for themselves? At least they are improving their livelihood instead of eating out of the taxpayers pockett.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Joidigm said:


> Here in Memphis, there is a different view of Mexicans. They are some of the hardest working people I know. They earn every penny they work for. I am all for legalizing them if it means they pay taxes, but that is my only issue. I wish I didnt have to pay taxes lol. But I have seen entire neighborhoods improve because of Mexicans. Compared to most of the black population here, many of whom try to eek the system, I would rather be in a Mexican neighborhood. It is a safer and healthier community to be honest. Many dont speak english very well, but they try. I can passingly understand their point, which is good enough for me. I grew up around immigrant Polish and Hindu groups, so it isnt like Im not used to a language barrier. And really, its not like the poor 'Americans' in this area speak great english to begin with.
> 
> And it is true that they are willing to do jobs most are not. If they want to make a decent living, they have too. And that is okay by me. Who am I to say they cant be here and make a better life for themselves? At least they are improving their livelihood instead of eating out of the taxpayers pockett.



:shock::shock::shock::shock:

Do you ever make statements like this in real life and not get people just dropping their jaws to the ground. 

Holy epic levels of racism. 

'Mexican's" are ok because they work hard and try to speak English, unlike those black people who are not safe to be around. 

Are you for real? Do you really think this is acceptable?

What level of total hillbilly would you have to be to not have any awareness that this kind of statement is simply unacceptable, and maybe best left to be said in person around your ******* friends who are also missing teeth and brain cells.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I live in Georgia. I have a good job. I have a decent home. I worked hard to get where I am. I would like to pay less taxes and have more spending money, but who wouldn't? America is a great place to be.


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## Reiterin (Mar 28, 2010)

AlexS said:


> Wow what a strange direction this conversation has taken.
> 
> As a none American who has lived here for 11 years now, I love this country. There is no utopia anywhere in the world, it's unreasonable to expect that somewhere would be perfect. The majority of the world is in a recession, so I can't imagine wanting to jump ship because of something like that, or politics.
> 
> ...


Thank you. That needed to be said.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Piaffe said:


> I think it is funny and ironic the amount of people trying to get out of the United States and the amount dreaming about it and wanting to get in. If I lived in another country and wanted to move to the United States I would at least wait 4 more years. As much as I love my country and was once very proud to be an American I am ashamed of many of our recent decisions and I believe America (as we know it) is on a fast downward spiral. I'm not trying to say America is all bad though. We have many,many freedoms that we take for granted that many parts of the world have never had and likely never will. Sadly, I don't believe our freedoms will last and America will just become another country...not the highly dramatized "land of the free". Our "freedoms" are slowly being stolen from us while most of America is distracted with smaller,but very publicized issues so they don't notice. I'm not trying to be a pessimistic doom and gloomer... Just a passing opinion...from a very concerned citizen of a place I no longer wish to live.


 
I don't usually get miffed, but this miffs me. If you think it's such a poor place, you should find a better one. There is nothing wrong with complaining and arguing and fighting for what you think will make it a better place. That is at the very core of what it means to be American. But if you just want to grouse and consider it a lost cause, then exactly how is that going to improve anything? I would have to be really , really hard pressed to say I no longer want to live in the country of my birth and of my heart.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

KeepCalmAndTrotOn said:


> You want barrel racers move to Nevada.


This is a little off topic from the direction this thread has taken but I can't help it.

NV is not a good state to move to if you want to do a whole lot of showing or rodeoing period.
You have to drive somewhere to get somewhere and the shows are few and far between unless you live in Reno or Vegas and can travel to CA.

As far as barrel racing and plenty of other horse events, Texas, California(central and southern) and Oklahoma are pretty ideal. You can hit a couple of shows every weekend without a whole lot of traveling compared to NV.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

I don't think it's "such a poor place" and I said no such thing. What I said is that I believe America is changing fast and not for the better. I am, of course, all for improving America and working hard for the things we want to change. But when our rights are taken and we are told what to do then what? I'm just saying in my own personal opinion most of the United States currently has the wool pulled over their eyes. One day everyone will wake up and see. Do I hate this country? OF COURSE NOT. That isn't AT ALL what I was saying and if that is what you think you completely missed the point. I'm saying America isn't the fairy-tale land that many other places seem to make it out to be. Like I said before...we do take many of our freedoms for granted. I just don't believe we will have most of our freedoms much longer. I have always been raised with a huge amount of pride in my country...heck...I have had TONS of close relatives in the service. Several dying for this country. I'm just sad about where America is headed. I can't help it. It's my opinion and trust me...no one is sadder about it than me.

I am sorry if I offended you (or anyone else). It wasn't meant to be a "cut" to my country. It was only written out of genuine sadness.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Most of the places that you can go to have less freedoms than we do. 

1. We can criticize and sing songs making fun of our president without getting sent to Siberia.
2. We can own property.
3. We can worship or not worship as we please and even criticize the religion of the political forces that are in power.
4. We can be gay without fearing the death penalty.
5. Women can work the same jobs that men can work and they do not have to depend on a man's decision as to how they spend their salary.
6. All of our kids, male and female, have access to free public education.

Sure there are some things that could be better. Who else has more rights?


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## Joidigm (May 8, 2012)

AlexS said:


> :shock::shock::shock::shock:
> 
> Do you ever make statements like this in real life and not get people just dropping their jaws to the ground.
> 
> ...


I apologize for the extreme generalness of my statement. I do forget, that not in Memphis, people are not used to the culture shock and extreme racism that do exist in this city. I did not mean to offend. And no, those used to being here do not get jaw dropping as a response. I have learned it as a result of being here for 5 years and have become used to it. I am sorry if I have offended any body.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Celeste said:


> Most of the places that you can go to have less freedoms than we do.
> 
> 1. We can criticize and sing songs making fun of our president without getting sent to Siberia.
> 2. We can own property.
> ...


Celeste. There are many countries across the world, who have the same freedoms we share in the US. I was actually shocked, when coming to the US, that US citizens had to pay for health care. I was shocked that parents had to purchase school books etc., for their children. I was shocked that one has to pay for an ambulance to pick someone up and take to the hospital. I was shocked that much of that which I learned in high school, American parents have to pay for, by sending their children to college. Oh yes, there are many countries who have a lot that Americans have and some maybe even a bit more. I tend sometimes, to think American have been somewhat brainwashed, into thinking they are the only free nation in the world. 

When I applied to come to the US, I had to go to the US Embassy in London for a few days. It was the most degrading experience I had ever been subjected to. About 30 women were lined up in a room. Each of us had to wear a very short, paper gown. Under that, we were nude. A doctor walked along the line and we were advised to raise our paper gowns to chin level. Reminded me of some kind of jail or concentration camp. We were given all kinds of medical tests and shots for diseases unknown in England. I don't know if it is still the same, but it was not a nice introduction to America. 

Lizzie


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Many of the trends that we are dealing with in this country and around the world are part and parcel with the world becoming more heavily populated, and more closely intertwined economically and culturally. As a result, individual freedoms may be eroding. I would agree with that. I do not think it is the result of one or the other of the political parties, but more an inevitable change that is happening to all large, developed countries. The more people you have living in an ever shrinking space (metophorically speaking), the more rules there have to be to preserve the peace, and the more individual freedoms suffer. 
We have to find a way to balance individual freedom and health , safety and prosperity for the whole, as we become more and more numerous. There is no way that tomorrow can be a duplicate of today, or of the world of our parents.


Sorry, I am, getting off topic.

I read somewhere that America is ranked highest in destination for tourists based on the friendly reception they recieve. I am always delighted to meet foreigners here and to share as much as I can with them and hope they carry home the best of memories.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Wow. Nobody ever strip searched me. (I doubt they would want to.)
Why did they do this? I seriously doubt this was standard procedure.

Our high schools provide books. Colleges are not free. I wish they were.

My son spent 2 years in England. He had scholarships, but his life there was not free. It cost a lot of money. He had a great time. He also told me that there were surveillance cameras everywhere. Also, he said that average citizens did not have the right to own guns.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm sorry for contributing to the fact that this thread has gotten so off topic :O

That sounds like a horrible experience and entrance into this country. I haven't hear of such a thing in regards to coming to America.

When I was in school my of my books were also free (when I went to public school anyways. The private school that I went to made you pay for everything). I haven't heard of any public schools making you buy your books?


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## Joidigm (May 8, 2012)

Taxes pay for public schools pay for books. Although the curriculum and referendum and money available to schools vary by individual community as well as state funding. Some cities blow over a billion dollars a year on public schools with nothing to show for it. Others have better numbers with less money. Numbers (standarization) are what is important, not quite so much the individual education.


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## Mary Liz (Mar 21, 2012)

Hey I read some of the very first posts up here and not the most recent so just going to respond to the original post if you love western riding pretty much any state in the continental US has western riding. Also I've ridden western and english and I prefer english(dressage) but you can do everything in english that you can in western just a different saddle for the most part. I might suggest watching the movie Buck...it shows a dressage horse working cows with a bunch of western horses and it proves english movements are used in /mimic the activities done by a cow horse...If you feel strongly about western riding here in the states check out the growing number of people doing western dressage ...I know here in NC it is growing. It(WD) teaches a lot of the things (like impulsion, rythym, form, ect that every horse needs to have) that regular dressage teaches just with western apparel. Hope that helps out some.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Celeste said:


> My son spent 2 years in England. He had scholarships, but his life there was not free. It cost a lot of money. He had a great time. He also told me that there were surveillance cameras everywhere. Also, he said that average citizens did not have the right to own guns.


And the average citizen does not need a gun it just isn't something that the average citizen does not worry about. I agree that the surveillance cameras are over the top, but you tend to get used to it.

Is life free, well the UK enjoys freedom of speech, freedom of religion, employers cannot discriminate, against people because of age, gender, sexual preference, either in employment, or in the pay offered. You are free to attend a doctor or hospital without having to worry where the money is coming from.

America is by no means the only country that has freedoms, there are many many countries that have freedoms.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Criminy. Free health care is never free. It is paid for through taxes. Lots of taxes from lots of sources. We're moving in that direction. But most of us will not be fooled by the incorrect use of the word "free." 

I'll take the opportunities I have here in the U.S. over what my relatives in Europe and Australia say they have.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Joidigm said:


> I apologize for the extreme generalness of my statement. I do forget, that not in Memphis, people are not used to the culture shock and extreme racism that do exist in this city. I did not mean to offend. And no, those used to being here do not get jaw dropping as a response. I have learned it as a result of being here for 5 years and have become used to it. I am sorry if I have offended any body.


Thanks for apologizing. 







Moving on to the broader topic - as far as freedoms - what freedoms have been lost? 

I was mind blown when I first moved here and I hear American's spout off that they are the freeist nation on earth. I mean really? The Netherlands has FAR more freedoms than America. 
And honestly, society needs some rules and lack of freedoms. Speed limits in general are a good thing, as are rules in many townships that you can't have a junk yard in your back yard. 

It seems many appreciate the rules they agree with, and spout about lack of freedoms for the rules they don't. 

My American experience is somewhat limited, but I was pretty informed before I moved here - however I do wonder if the freedoms being lost argument is just from people waking up but still believing the brain washing they had since youth. The US is not the most free nation on earth, and I am not sure it ever has been.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> And the average citizen does not need a gun it just isn't something that the average citizen does not worry about. I agree that the surveillance cameras are over the top, but you tend to get used to it.


Yeah, wear the chains long enough, you get used to them 



> Is life free, well the UK enjoys freedom of speech, freedom of religion, employers cannot discriminate, against people because of age, gender, sexual preference, either in employment, or in the pay offered.


Which is pretty much true of the US. (And isn't that a LACK of freedom for employers, that they can't hire whom they please?) On the other hand... Well, I have friends who lived in the UK for a decade or so, most of the time in a semi-suburban town (St. Albans) about an hour out of London. They lived with bars on every window, never left the house without setting an alarm system, regularly had cars broken into & stuff stolen, or just vandalized - and apparently that is normal everyday behavior there. Here in my own corner of the US, I haven't locked my house door in years.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

boots said:


> Criminy. Free health care is never free. It is paid for through taxes. Lots of taxes from lots of sources. We're moving in that direction. But most of us will not be fooled by the incorrect use of the word "free."
> 
> .


LOL, you say that like it is news to us, we know that we pay for it, but the point is it is free at the point of delivery, so no one has to add the fear of getting ill to the other stresses.

But those are the freedoms I enjoy, and you are free to enjoy yours, I just don't like the assumption that the US is any freer than a lot of other countries. 

Freedom means different things to different people that much is for sure


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> On the other hand... Well, I have friends who lived in the UK for a decade or so, most of the time in a semi-suburban town (St. Albans) about an hour out of London. They lived with bars on every window, never left the house without setting an alarm system, regularly had cars broken into & stuff stolen, or just vandalized - and apparently that is normal everyday behavior there. Here in my own corner of the US, I haven't locked my house door in years.


You are also not living within an hour of New York City, or some other massive major city, most likely. 

I am English, and I have never lived in a house with an alarm system, nor have I ever had my car or house broken into.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I missed that one, lived in the UK for 48 years, and only locked the door for 2 years, never ever lived in or visited a house with bars on the windows. 

I was amazed when I came to the US on vacation and found bars on the motel windows, that was scary, as was laying in bed listening to the sound of gunshots.

Many many years ago when we still had cefax on the TV, like pre internet days :lol::lol: we were coming to the USA on vacation. I went to check the UK Government travel warning pages, you had to wait as the pages scrolled around, and it was interesting, still in the cold war days, and Russia had half a page, some places were no travel, some had a couple of pages, USA had like 6 full pages of warnings, it was very surprising to me.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I've seen bars on windows GH, basement flats in London and the commuter distance from there, Brighton, Essex etc. 

Basement apartments are a terrible idea, usually the access to them is hidden under the stairs of the apartments above, and are therefore super easy to break into.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Ahh, so city life is dangerous and sucks all over the place:wink:


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I do agree, that freedom means different things to different people. For those who have not travelled much, away from the US, I do think they have a slightly warped idea that America is the only free country in the world. I lived through the 2nd World War and yet I seldom heard the word 'freedom', until I moved to the US. I do think many in America, have indeed been brainwashed into thinking it is the only free country in the world. This, borne out by some of the very strange questions asked of me, since I've been here. I actually found America rather 'closed' to many things I was used to, when I came here.

I'll give just one example. Only in fairly recent years, have gays 'come out' in the US. In the 1950's in England, there were many gay bars and restaurants. Many gay news readers on TV and we all knew they were gay. We thought nothing of it. In Europe, I used to go to a gay pub, where the Italian lady owner sang the most wonderful songs each evening. I still remember some of them to this day. Even though I was not gay and neither were the friends I was with, it was not unusual to visit such places. I found it odd when first coming here, that most didn't even want to talk about it. Of course, over the years I became used to it. 

Regarding crime in the US. Well it is pretty bad in many areas. Where we live we hear gunshots frequently. Almost always from gang activity. We do have a security system and motion cameras. Thankfully, we will be moving shortly, to an area with less crime and closer to my daughter. I am all for cameras on street corners. They've had them in many countries in Europe for generations. I do think it helps with catching criminals and making people feel a bit more safe. 

Lizzie


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I guess I've never really feared crime much. I have 7 cameras in my house, because of the people who live in my house - not because of unwelcome visitors. 

(It's an agency requirement)










I work in a city with one of the highest per capita murder rates in the US. I really don't stress too much about it, it's rare that it's a normal, none criminal who is a victim.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Crime is in a lot of places. It is dangerous to be on a boat near Somalia, and it is dangerous to walk around in southwest Atlanta alone at night. 

I feel certain that the UK is a pretty good place to live. I would not give up what I have here to go there.

I can't imagine being a woman in one of the middle eastern countries that are ruled by the local religious extremists. Woman are mere property there. Women here in the US have actually gained a lot of rights in the past 50 years.

My point about lack of freedoms was not really aimed at the UK folks. It was more at the people (not necessarily on this forum) that are screaming about all the problems in the US. I hear people saying that our life as we know it is on the way out because some people don't like the way the elections went. If they don't like it, then they should try to improve things.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Have you had a look for western saddles in Hisckock's Saddlery in Queanbyan? Some of theirs look aright, though Id always recommend getting one custom made rather than off the shelf.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Interesting! I'll agree that I think that America is ignorant of other countries and how they live. America is also extremely ignorant of it's *own* history.

As far as loosing freedoms. Yes we are, every day. And it starts small, with things like banning big gulps. Anytime a government agency be it federal, state or local starts infringing on what you can and cannot buy, you are starting to loose your rights. There's a fine line that needs to be walked. And I am NOT saying that there should not be regulations so please don't spin that to mean something I am not saying. I hope you understand my point.

Healthcare - Yes everyone should have it, but having the federal government control it is a mistake. These yokles can't even balance a checkbook. You and I would be in jail if we mis-handled our personal funds in this way. I really don't want them managing my healthcare, thanks. Not to mention the burden in places tax-wise on everyone who pays.

Not to mention executive orders being used to by-pass congress. That's a safety net put in place for a reason and stomps all over our Constitution.

Celeste does have it right though, instead of complaining, we need to step-up and fix it. I do believe that is occurring a LOT more than people think


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

BBBCrone said:


> Healthcare - Yes everyone should have it, but having the federal government control it is a mistake. These yokles can't even balance a checkbook. You and I would be in jail if we mis-handled our personal funds in this way. I really don't want them managing my healthcare, thanks. Not to mention the burden in places tax-wise on everyone who pays.


I agree with this in theory. I just don't see how it can work. How can we be sure that everybody gets good health care if we don't have socialized medicine? I am not being critical. I just would like to see a good plan.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I'll give just one example. Only in fairly recent years, have gays 'come out' in the US. In the 1950's in England, there were many gay bars and restaurants. Many gay news readers on TV and we all knew they were gay. We thought nothing of it.


Oh, really? Do look up the story of Alan Turing sometime.

In actual fact, homosexuality was a crime in Britain up until 1967.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Yeah, I kinda wondered about that. People always think the past is so rosy.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I know the story of Alan very well. Like many other things, it was just a couple of people who started all the trouble for him. Like many other laws still on the books in the UK and the US, many are just overlooked these days. However, loooong before Alan's troubles, homosexuality had been widespread in England and well known. 

In Victorian times, much the same thing happened to Oscar Wilde. The Marquess of Queensberry brought up Oscar's homosexuality in a hugely public case. (OW had been having a very public affair with the Marquess's son) A few who disliked Oscar, sided with the Marquess and poor OW was put in prison. This even though he had been wined, dined and bedded, by some of the most well known people in London at the time. As with Alan, the trial ruined him and he also died very young. 

Even so, in spite of Oscar being incredibly popular in England, homosexuality was not stopped or even covered up at all. It still went on until it was actually made legal, in 1967. It had been well known since Elizabethan times. Maybe before.

Lizzie


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Things are getting worse in some places. By the way, in case anybody wondered, I am straight and happily married. I just hate to see governments hurting people.

Uganda to pass anti-gay law as 'Christmas gift'?


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I know the story of Alan very well. Like many other things, it was just a couple of people who started all the trouble for him. Like many other laws still on the books in the UK and the US, many are just overlooked these days. However, loooong before Alan's troubles, homosexuality had been widespread in England and well known.


So exactly how was this different from the US at the time? Granted, I was not around for most of the '50s, and too young to pay attention for the rest, but by the '60s it was fairly open, at least among younger people in the places I lived. (Of course the US was and is considerably more diverse than Britain.)

We might also note that (as of this election) gay marriage is legal in a fifth of US states, but not in Britain.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Anti-gay laws were on the books in the state of Georgia, USA until a few years ago but they were not enforced. It was a matter of nobody bothering to take them off the books.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I love the US of A and have travelled there many times.
I will say that I am exceedingly grateful to the Internet because I have met many good friends that I have had the pleasure of meeting. 

The first time I travelled to Texas it was at the invitation of four Texan couples I had met when they were in the UK. I knew they were wealthy but never realised just how! There homes made Dallas look like a hovel but, the women's idea of a good time was beauty salons, shopping and parties. 
I had a great time but this was not my ideal holiday. I had a better time getting up early and going down to the working ranch one owned and helping with horses and cattle. 

The best holiday I have ever had was staying in Idaho out in the wilds, 4,500 feet up in the Rockies. I loved the people and felt at home with the ranchers. They were shocked that anyone would want to stay in such a remote area!

As in any country there is a great diversity between the people. 
Americans do not possess the sense of humour that the southern antipodeans and the Brits do. They do not laugh at themselves as much as 'we' do.
I do not understand the political system at all. Not so sure that many Americans do either because of the way they have elected several Presidents with addled brains over the last few years - not just once but for two terms!

I am not one for cities no matter where in the world. Give me the rural! Farmers/ranchers are the same all over the world, they work hard, often against nature and seem to welcome another who knows what it is like to have dirt under their fingernails and who appreciates the difficulties of that sort of life!

As for the food - it is generally great. Plenty of it and very reasonably priced. 
I have yet to learn to appreciate grits in any form and, cannot fathom why anyone would want to ruin a perfectly good fried breakfast with maple syrup!!!!!!!!!!!


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Come on Aussie! We need more optimistic dreamers around here!

I welcome (as do most Americans) all people who want to come here legally and contribute to our diverse and exceptional country! I live in Arkansas, often the butt of many jokes, but we have an incredibly diverse equestrian scene, a growing economy, incredible resources, and breathtaking scenery. Mostly western with as much barrel racing, reining, cutting, pole bending, trail riding, wide hilly spaces as one could want with plenty of English for those so inclined! Not exactly CO, WY, MT, or TX but I'll take our winters over theirs any day! And our cost of living.

I have traveled and lived in dozens of states, countries, and the US is by far "better" for me. I have a cousin getting ready to marry an Aussie in the spring. She will be moving over there. I hear all the time how expensive it is to live there, about their gov, "silly" regulations, thankfully her future DH is an engineer and does well. I see how Australia has it's perks no doubt, especially practically being it's own continent!

I have never been mugged in the US or a victim of a crime, but I was mugged in the UK and in Ireland, I was attacked in Spain by a drunk man, I saw EXTREME racism in the UK and in Germany, France was weird and I was appalled by how they treated some of their elderly and mentally unstable, the Netherlands were somewhat "more" free when it comes to certain things, Japan was interesting but I was too young there to form a valid opinion, Egypt was dismal there were the haves and the have nots with no ability to further their lives or even go on vacation (back then) they were not allowed to leave unless uber wealthy, Northern Africa was scary but incredibly rich with history and a trip, Mexico is just a mess, Canada is ok but now like the US it's following the European socialist model and there is no way I'd subject myself to their winters. So I don't take our freedoms for granted, neither will I paint it in a rosy hue, we are still young (Like Australia) but currently being torn in half by ideals and models that have been proven to fail in the past but some of our charismatic leaders they see how it will benefit them personally and remain in power.

As a person living in an extremely rural area I can take care of myself. THAT is what the US was supposed to be all about. That and taking care of our families and local communities. So even with all this stuff going down, I don't want to leave. I will hole up and make sure my family and loved ones are cared for, as will most rural farmers and ranchers. Unfortunately we are becoming few and far between, I don't see freedoms being taken away so much as I see the Government taking advantage of some people in order to gain the loyalty of others. Oh well, se la vie. 

So welcome if you are so inclined to move here! We will embrace you with open arms (just come on out to the vast rural areas) good folk out here, regardless of any jokes or stereotypes you hear!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Boy, Flygap's description makes ME want to move there, and I'm already "here", so to speak. But I live on the "left" coast , as other members call us when they wish to sling derrogatory innuendo our way. No matter. Call it the "Riv Guache" if you will.
I already asked Flygap to adopt me , once, but she already has kids.


Where I live is a whole 'nother realm. Seattle is very cosmopolitan, young and rapidly changing. We have a huge foreign populations, for better or for worse. not so much ingrained old customs as older parts of the US have. we are very much focussed on the future and this is a place of much potential and a fair degree of prosperity. We have gorgeous mountains like out of "Heidi" about one hour from the urban core, water all around in every form and a culturally thriving "scene" in the city. The outdoors are a great draw to the young folks, as are the many large corporations such as Microsoft, Amazon and Starbucks.
Seattle is busy, noisy, crowded and a bit elitist, but a person can have a very good life here, too. We are NOTHING like the lovely image Flygap describes, but equally as appealing, if you ask me, and every bit as American!


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Tiny comeon out! (and bring me Mac!!!) I'll take you in! Got an extra barn we can convert, a couple thousand miles of trails we can ride, as much good home cookin as you can stomach, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE my "neighbors"! (you just can't run to the store out here, or go to the movies, or see an art exhibit, or grab a bite to eat without devoting an entire day and spending a couple hundred dollars getting there and doing whatever you need to get done!)

We are a weird tourism area, a LOT like CO or some small towns in MT. Lots of "expats" from Colorado, Oklahoma, California, and Texas... When people get here they don't leave. Great thing is there is very little privately owned land or mass jobs available so we still get to be hardy mountain folk. One of my neighbors (12 miles away) provides all the liquor, another all the beef, I trade eggs for celery and lettuce with my friend from the UK (she moved here to get away from socialism, face palm, and isn't too happy about our current situation)!

We do have a MAJOR temporary music and art scene thanks to us. We currently bring in over 250+ bands/musicians, and 50,000+ people from all around the country/world... Going to double if not triple that next year (if the world doesn't implode, or the economy crash, or if the Mayans have it right LOL!) So I get my dose of large city livin, out here in the sticks, but get to send them home after a few days! LOL! 

Invite is open to everyone!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Man, that sounds just SO cool!! I have been to Arkansas, way back in the stone ages. my family took a trip around the US, with a trailer, a stationwagon and a panting dog in the back. We spent a week at Table Rock Lake. I remember being amazd at how the fish nibbled at our toes. Sure was darn hot , though. Our Westie dog nearly died from heat stroke.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> So exactly how was this different from the US at the time? Granted, I was not around for most of the '50s, and too young to pay attention for the rest, but by the '60s it was fairly open, at least among younger people in the places I lived. (Of course the US was and is considerably more diverse than Britain.)
> 
> We might also note that (as of this election) gay marriage is legal in a fifth of US states, but not in Britain.


I think the difference I saw, James, was the fact that in the US, people didn't speak of it much in the open, as much as in the UK. This was in the early '60's, when I first came to the US. Many who were homosexuals here, never admitted it. I think only in recent years, have most 'come out'. 

I also think that some, think this is something modern. It has been well known and documented, for many hundreds of years and in many countries. It was so widespread in the 1500's and before in the UK, that (I think) it was King Henry Vlll who outlawed the practice. He being head of the new Church of England. Not that he had room to talk really, of anything concerning morals! 

There are I'm sure, still wildly funny old laws on the books, in many countries. I remember as a four or five year old, I lived in a small village in Norfolk. On the village green was a grand old oak tree. Probably several hundred years old. From a branch, hung a chain attached to a metal thing which would be put over the head of a criminal and locked, so all the locals could see who had done what. I was told women were often placed in this head thing, because they had been found guilty of 'scolding'. This either their husbands, children or somebody else. I believe this particular law was only brought to an end, in the 1960's. 

I also remember when I was about 5 years old, going to the local little shop to purchase cigarettes and a box of matches, for my doctor's wife. The shopkeeper could sell me the cigarettes, but not matches. He said it was illegal to sell matches on a Sunday. I remember that, to this day. It was a little shop, half way down Grapes Hill, in Norwich. Funny stuff. I wonder if it is still illegal to sell matches on a Sunday, in England.

Lizzie


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I once heard on the news about someone making use of an old law in London to avoid a parking fine. Apparently the guy who had been given the parking fine decided to opt for trial by combat, which was still on the books. He offered to put on armour and get a sword and fight to prove his innocence if a representative from the bunch who issued the parking fine was willing to do the same. I thought it was pretty cool. Shame we cant still do it, would sure make Judge Judy a lot more interesting.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I think the difference I saw, James, was the fact that in the US, people didn't speak of it much in the open, as much as in the UK. This was in the early '60's, when I first came to the US. Many who were homosexuals here, never admitted it. I think only in recent years, have most 'come out'.


I think that was more down to basic attitudes towards privacy in the US. Unlike the UK (which as far as I can see, has zero respect for anyone's privacy), the US attitude generally used to be (unfortunately, it's changed a lot in recent years) that people's sex lives were nobody else's business "as long as you don't do it in the street and scare the horses", as the saying goes.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> I think that was more down to basic attitudes towards privacy in the US. Unlike the UK (which as far as I can see, has zero respect for anyone's privacy).


Why do you say that?


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Ellieandrose said:


> So, ever since I was little(well littler) I have adored America!  I love the western scene you guys have over there. Here in the capital of Australia we are all pretty ride english. I am at every rodeo around Canberra. One day I hope to take me, my horse and my dog over to live in America. To shorten that all up **** I love you guys!


How odd...I've always thought it would be _far_ better to live in Australia.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> I think that was more down to basic attitudes towards privacy in the US. Unlike the UK (which as far as I can see, has zero respect for anyone's privacy), the US attitude generally used to be (unfortunately, it's changed a lot in recent years) that people's sex lives were nobody else's business "as long as you don't do it in the street and scare the horses", as the saying goes.


I think you missed the point entirely. I was trying to explain that nobody cared in the UK, if someone was straight, gay or anything else. I found in the US, people hid it and didn't want to talk about it. And yes, that has slowly changed here.

I presume you have lived in the UK. Why do you think there is zero respect there for anyone's privacy? I never found it to be so.

Lizzie


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I think you missed the point entirely. I was trying to explain that nobody cared in the UK, if someone was straight, gay or anything else. I found in the US, people hid it and didn't want to talk about it. And yes, that has slowly changed here.


Maybe it's perspective, but to me it seems that all this "coming out" is in fact making a point of caring. It's like... well, if you go to the hospital for surgery, I will wish for your speedy recovery, and perhaps send a card or flowers, or even visit, but I have absolutely no interest in hearing about all the details of the unpleasant symptoms, or examining your stitches.




> I presume you have lived in the UK. Why do you think there is zero respect there for anyone's privacy? I never found it to be so.


Tabloids, Diana, Rupert Murdoch...


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You are talking about the paparazzi - they have no respect for anyone's privacy and that is a fact!

Times change and not always for the better.
Long gone in most areas when everyone knew everyone and helped out whenever they could. Children were generally safe because every adult would correct them if needed regardless of whether they knew who they were or not.

Troubles were common knowledge therefore they were not bottled up and made worse. They were sorted by the neighbours and that was that. I guess in that respect there was little privacy but there was certainly a unity in each neighbourhood. 

The Brits have always been far more broad minded than the Americans, when matters like homosexuality arose a blind eye was turned. Not so anymore.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I grew up in the days when a child behaved when away from home. They knew in someone else's home, they could get a box on the ears and another when they got home! Now kids are taught that they can do just about anything and get away with it. Parents have few rights these days.

Kids almost always wore uniforms, at the school they attended. There was not worries as to who had the better clothes. We knew we had to behave properly at all times. Heaven help us, if someone saw us doing something naughty when out. It was reported to our parents - usually before we arrived home. There was none of "Oh my child would never do that." Everyone looked out for the children of others. Good and bad. I remember having to walk several miles to school, from the time I was 4 1/2. No parents walked with us - or had to. We knew how to cross roads properly and there was never an instance of someone taking a child. Things have changed so much these days. 

Lizzie


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Some new numbers, out today. There are now an estimated 9 million Americans, over 50 years old, who go to bed hungry each night. Double that in America's hungry children. This even though there are food pantries in every city and town.

I know the lines at the free food pantries in my small town, are so long, that most cannot stand and wait long enough to get to the front of the line. And that including the fact that we have several plus Church food pantries, some of which, open twice a week.

Since we are constantly _'told' _we are the richest nation in the world, why then, is this happening and becoming worse all the time?

I recently met a charming couple in their 60's. Educated. Well spoken. When the gentleman lost his job and home three years ago, they also sold everything they had and managed to purchase a 'container'. A container is one of those things which big semi trucks carry goods in on our highways. This couple, now lives in the container, out in the desert of S. California. They get what they can from a food bank and by going through garbage containers behind grocery stores. A sad fact in America today. 

Lizzie


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I recently met a charming couple in their 60's. Educated. Well spoken. When the gentleman lost his job and home three years ago, they also sold everything they had and managed to purchase a 'container'.


I would bet that that couple spent their previous life spending everything they earned, living paycheck to paycheck, maybe taking out home equity loans to buy still more consumer junk, not saving or investing at all.

This is not a new story by any means - see for instance Aesop's fable of the grasshopper and the ants - yet no one has AFAIK come up with a decent justification for taxing the ants to support the grasshoppers through the winter.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Don't you think that's a bit harsh, James? Probably puts me in the same category then. As with millions, I have probably, almost always lived paycheck to paycheck. When I had horses, it was my decision and I worked always two jobs and for quite a while, three jobs to keep them. When I could no longer afford a horse, I had to sell the best horse I had ever known. I shall never really get over losing him.

I very seldom have bought anything new. For the almost 50 years I have lived in the US, I have purchased almost everything I needed, from thrift shops, garage sales or flea markets. I still do, although these days don't find I need anything. I have never had enough money to invest. I've never taken out a mortgage to buy some luxury. I have so far, never owned a new car. In my 70s now, I doubt I ever will. I have only taken one holiday in my life, when I went home to England with my daughter. Certainly when I was young and still in England, I had more to spend than I do now. Even then though, I was thrifty. Growing up during the war, I learned about having no luxuries. When very young, I got an orange (if I was lucky) and nuts in my stocking at Christmas. Sometimes a new toothbrush or comb. I do remember getting two great Christmas gifts, when I was very little. One was a doll and another time, an old teddy bear which my mother had re-covered in my grandmother's old fur coat. In those days, we didn't get much and didn't expect anything. 

Living on SS now, is no picnic. I am actually thankful, that I do have a roof over my head. So many don't. And I don't think we can judge anyone fairly, who has not.

Lizzie


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Lizzie, you speak so much good sense, I could hug you


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> Don't you think that's a bit harsh, James?


No, I don't, because I see the results around me every day. Sure, there are exceptions (and it looks like you're one), but the general rule seems to be that people live up to and beyond their income, then expect someone else to foot the bill after it all collapses.

I've managed to go from just about nothing to pretty comfortable in my life, without the benefit of family or government support. I see people like my neighbors, who have two fairly decent incomes and inherited their place from their parents but are on the verge of losing it, while I - on one income smaller than their total - am close to having my mortgage paid off and have stashed enough to maintain my current lifestyle for a decade or more. 

So I have to wonder what's the difference between them and me. Could it be that I don't buy new SUVs on credit? (My car's 12 years old and gets 70 mpg, the truck is more than old enough to vote.) That I don't have an RV, a travel trailer, a power boat and a Jet Ski parked in my yard? That I don't have $100/month cell plans, big TVs with hundreds of channels of cable, and so on through the list of consumer junk?


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I am quite sure James, that many have and still do, live beyond their means. However, I'm also quite sure, that many who have lost their jobs and consequently their homes, most likely did not live beyond their means. 

I'll give an example of something else which goes on in the US and which really p's me off. We see it constantly in S. Cal., but I imagine it goes on everywhere. My former neighbours, were from another country. Father, mother, one grandmother and three older teenage boys, plus an older daughter. All were on some kind of Government aid and had come here legally. The daughter gave piano lessons from their home. Father and the boys, all worked under the table, in and around LA. The grandmother and mother, did not work.

Except for the father, none spoke or wrote English particularly well. At one point, they told us they were moving and asked me to do some paperwork for them. I was shocked when I discovered just how much money was going into that house per month and had been for several years. It was actually more than I was making per year! They had enough money saved, to purchase a small factory in another state, and moved. All this money saved, while living on welfare and everyone working under the table. 

This is the kind of thing which is destroying California. At one time, I was speaking to someone who deals in this kind of thing here. He told me he had thousands of case files in his office. Only he and one other person were employed to look into such things. He admitted it was easier to just let it go, rather than look into them all. 

Lizzie


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Lizzie - there are many in the UK who live very well on SS and draw in far more than I could ever earn. 
This Government has tightened down a lot on who gets what, not liked by those that draw but liked by most.

One woman was claiming disability, saying she had asthma, was light reactive and needed 24 hour care in her home. Neighbours complained so she was investigated. She had been seen walking her dogs and said it was her identical twin sister. 
She was also running a council owned cafe for which she paid no rent saying it was only breaking even. She had taken over $350,000 in three years. 
They caught her out and she had to repay and received a prison sentence. 
How they caught her was funny because she had changed her name several times. They got a copy of her birth certificate and it turns out she was not a twin and had in fact been born a he! 

I have never earned a lot and could be in a job where I earned a lot more but be miserable. My choice. When I want something 'extra' I worked more jobs from dishes washing to being a chambermaid. Work is generally there if you look hard enough and want to work even if it is menial tasks.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I believe you, Foxhunter. A couple of years ago, I actually saw a young man who was on some forum or other, explaining to Americans, how to go about getting aid and fooling the government in England. Hopefully by now, he was one of those caught. It's a huge problem isn't it.

Lizzie


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

When it comes to the great British safety net of government aid, my Dad always said that they should not look at what you have now, but at what you had in the past. 

He and another guy, his best mate, worked in the same job along side each other for many many years Pat smoke, drank, had new cars and good holidays. Dad, although he smoked, rarely drank, we went camping for our holidays, and generally he was careful with his cash, he also invested wisely. It always annoyed him that if they fell on hard times, Pat would get help right away, but Dad would have to spend his hard earned money first before he would qualify. 

That is the unfairness of the system to those who are honest, and a bigger problem is with the crooks who really work the system to their own advantage :twisted::twisted:

Inspite of all the issues it is still nice to have a safety net of sorts in place though


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I'll give an example of something else which goes on in the US and which really p's me off.


I don't really see how that follows, but I think it actually proves my point. Here's this family who, despite living on welfare, were able to save enough money to buy a factory. Now ignore for a moment the source of their income, and just consider the fact that they were able to SAVE most of what they got. Bet they did it by living well below their ill-gotten income, Is there any reason why people making an honest living can't do the same thing?


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Actually, they lived rather well and had several cars, two of which were Mercedes - a car of choice in their own country.

Lizzie


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