# Picking rocks out of the arena...



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Not my favorite chore. I don't mind picking out the bigger rocks, but there are a lot of smaller ones (1-3" or so) and our new dressage coach thinks it's bad for Harley's hooves (he's not shod). 

I've been googling like crazy to figure out a better way to do this. I have an ATV and good, sturdy drag, but of course the tines on the drag are too far apart to collect smaller rocks. I feel like there has to be a way to modify the drag to pick up at least some of these rocks. But other than buying a whole new attachment that will cost me over 500$, I am not finding the solution I'm looking for. 

Thoughts? Keeping in mind I don't have access to a lot of stores like Tractor Supply that are only in the US, and that I'm not anywhere near a large city with a multitude of options. We have lots of tractor and farm supply stores, but it's either a hand-held garden rake or a 500$ mechanical attachment. I'm not seeing a lot of options in between (ie, for the lazy and cheap, but overprotective horse owner). How can I do this smarter instead of harder???


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

You need to adapt that to screen the rocks....
You need wire mesh to screen out rocks over a certain size being realistic that pebbles can stay, rocks the size of hand palm probably should not...
So... wire grating/mesh 2.5 -3 inches would allow anything smaller to go through and catch anything larger..
What I can't figure out is how to adapt a ground drag to now sift and catch the rocks turned up by grading...








Is your ATV or pulling vehicle pretty strong cause this could get really heavy really fast...then you need a place to put the accumulated rocks to dispose of them and make them useful...mud hole location on the drive or near a water trough....:think:
Do you have a farm tractor with a yard rake attachment cause that would be pretty easy to just run with screening across the tine front and periodically stop and lift the drag, then begin again...when done dragging go back and scoop up the rocks with the bucket...
:runninghorse2:...


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Do you regularly work your arena with a drag? If so, next time it rains, _do not_ drag the arena. Pick up rocks first and get your daughter out there too. You will have an even easier time if it rains heavily, as all of the rocks will be exposed. Picking rocks is not fun, but make it easier on yourself and put rock collecting buckets on your ATV and minimize how much walking & carrying you have to do.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> You need to adapt that to screen the rocks....
> You need wire mesh to screen out rocks over a certain size being realistic that pebbles can stay, rocks the size of hand palm probably should not...
> So... wire grating/mesh 2.5 -3 inches would allow anything smaller to go through and catch anything larger..
> What I can't figure out is how to adapt a ground drag to now sift and catch the rocks turned up by grading...
> ...


You're thinking along the right lines... I was thinking I'd use the metal pipe that the rest of the drag hooks onto, and somehow attach rake heads to it. Will see if I can pick up some replacement rake heads at the hardware store... or bold them onto a 2 x 4. Two or three of them would do I think. As you say, if I could periodically pile them up and go collect them afterwards, they could certainly be put to good use in lots of ways...

The screening is a great idea. I will work that into my design. I think my ATV should be able to pull it as long as I stop and dump the rocks regularly.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ClearDonkey said:


> Do you regularly work your arena with a drag? If so, next time it rains, _do not_ drag the arena. Pick up rocks first and get your daughter out there too. You will have an even easier time if it rains heavily, as all of the rocks will be exposed. Picking rocks is not fun, but make it easier on yourself and put rock collecting buckets on your ATV and minimize how much walking & carrying you have to do.


I think you missed the "lazy and cheap" part of my post. We're talking about hundreds, if not thousands of rocks. I will break my back bending over and picking up that many rocks. Which has led me to conclude that the next load of sand I get will be filtered. I made the mistake of getting some with small rocks in it, thinking it wouldn't be so bad.

And I have never seen the rocks get more exposed after a rain. We have clay soil so it packs pretty hard. We're gradually building up sand over it, but I am reluctant to bring in too much sand at once because then you end up with deep sand which is bad for tendons.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Bribe some local kids? Give them a rake and some buckets. Each full bucket of rocks equals... some kind of reward?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

SteadyOn said:


> Bribe some local kids? Give them a rake and some buckets. Each full bucket of rocks equals... some kind of reward?


I live in the middle of nowhere. Neighbors are far and wide, no kids in sight. And there's a pandemic. Also, I don't know any kids who would pick rocks for money. It's a brave new world. :shrug:


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Acadianartist said:


> I live in the middle of nowhere. Neighbors are far and wide, no kids in sight. And there's a pandemic. Also, I don't know any kids who would pick rocks for money. It's a brave new world. :shrug:


Bribe yours?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

SteadyOn said:


> Bribe yours?


hehe... worth a shot, but I might have to up the reward significantly. Gone are the days when they would catch potato bugs for 10 cents a bug.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

IDK, but I just used a kitty scooper to remove sheep poops from my arena. Took an hour, still some left. 4 gallon jugs worth.

How many rocks? Can you do it by hand, modifying a manure fork with some mesh wire attached?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

secuono said:


> IDK, but I just used a kitty scooper to remove sheep poops from my arena. Took an hour, still some left. 4 gallon jugs worth.
> 
> How many rocks? Can you do it by hand, modifying a manure fork with some mesh wire attached?


No. Again, I believe you missed the point of my post.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Acadianartist said:


> I will break my back bending over and picking up that many rocks.



I've been picking up rocks for the last 10 months since I moved. Not finished but have made a huge dent.


I use a manure cart to for collection and dump them in piles for later collection with the tractor.


For my back, I use a regular round tipped shovel. Never bend over. Have become pretty good at tossing rocks into the cart from a bit of a distance.


Still slow, but I get a lot of walking exercise from it and it goes MUCH faster than bending over which could eventually leave me crippled. Or at least that's what it feels like.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Hondo said:


> I've been picking up rocks for the last 10 months since I moved. Not finished but have made a huge dent.
> 
> 
> I use a manure cart to for collection and dump them in piles for later collection with the tractor.
> ...


Yeah, the problem with that technique is the sideways twist motion which is just as back as the bending over motion. 

Again, y'all are missing the point of my post. I know how to pick rocks. I don't want to.


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

Scrape the problematic rocky sand off into a pile which can be sifted and then levelled back out or put fresh new sand down. 

If you have something that already picks up larger rocks, then you could put a wire mesh over top to decrease the size of the holes and catch smaller rocks. Something like chain link fencing or even chicken wire fencing


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Acadianartist said:


> Yeah, the problem with that technique is the sideways twist motion which is just as back as the bending over motion.
> 
> Again, y'all are missing the point of my post. I know how to pick rocks. I don't want to.



A slight sideways step would avert the twist that a spine was never designed to withstand.


Included in the point of the post was $500. If that were increased to 5k or maybe 10k, we might get somewhere.



Well, here's a rock rake for the tractor under $500. Maybe make windrows and come back and rake into piles to pick up. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200660630_200660630


Well shoot! Here's one for an ATV for $300. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000N50JLM?tag=duckduckgo-ffnt-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1


Guess you could get a really nice one for 5k.


Edit: Here ya go! https://www.machinio.com/cat/rock-pickers-and-rock-rakes#results


Maybe you could rent one for $500. Be done in no time at all.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Could one of those fruit-picker-uppers work? The ones that you use to pick up fallen nuts/apples/whatever around fruit/nut trees? That could work, a lot cheaper too.

When my dressage trainer tasked me to fix our arena (too deep in spots, and too many rocks) I was handed the keys to the tractor and was tasked with fixing it. My parents would do _some_ things for the horses, like feeding or chores if I was sick, but things like picking rocks and re-distributing sand? All me.

Your daughter should _want_ to pick these rocks if they are negatively impacting Harley. A bucket full every time she rides will get the task done quick. Start at one end, work your way to the other. Quickly, portions of the arena will be better. I fixed half of our arena, and that was perfect for what I did during my dressage lessons. By the time I made it throughout the whole thing, it was perfect for equestrian team practices that had 6+ horses using the arena.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I haven't read through to see others replies so this may be a repeat but here there are available several types of rolling pecan pickers that are walk around. We tend to get any and many pecan sized rocks when harvesting and thus have to sort through the pecans before they're sold. These aren't expensive and you want the wire egg shaped roller type. There are plastic "fingers" type but those were invented to avoid the rocks. the other type - as long as the rocks are pecan sized they get collected too.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Looking into all these suggestions. 

As for hand-picking, I'm not kidding when I say it is not an option. This is largish ring, and there are easily thousands of rocks. While my daughter warmed up for her ride this morning, I picked up about 50. Did not even put a tiny dent in the problem. This is not a job we want to do by hand, trust me. 

Renting is not a good option since we'll have to do it over and over again. Rocks work their way to the surface all the time. We have clay AND rocks. Ideally, the whole surface would be completely re-done but I'm not willing to invest that much into a backyard riding arena only my daughter uses. 
@Hondo, yes, this one is quite appealing! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000N50JLM...osi&th=1&psc=1. Not a terrible price either... thanks!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Hoof boots or shoes for Harley.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I know here in the states there are companies that come in a screen riding arenas, for a fee of course.
Don't know if that is a possibility, and have no idea of costs charged for a service such as that.
Instead of you having to do, investing time and resources you then need to store and if you never have the issue again, that tool will rot away wasted....maybe the idea of having it screened is not so crazy a thought.
:runninghorse2:...


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Typically expensive as the equipment has to be hauled along with what heavy equipment will be used to load the screen. For us it was a two person job. The drivers were the operators so that cut some expense but even with the size equipment we used it was not quick work. Insurance wasn't cheap and the two we trusted to do this weren't cheap labor as they had to be skilled to keep from ruining the equipment. We were removing rock from dairy pens so we could remove the manure for composting. Heavy clay soils and I always joked the manure made them grow exponentially in number overnight. At the dairy we were based on we left the equipment outside the pens and only moved once a certain distance from pen to screen was reached to lower labor costs unless we were doing the work. To haul it offsite for the other dairies meant two drivers with CDLs that were also able to operate the equipment without tearing anything up. Well, we also had trucks to haul the screened manure out. Not so funny but now we laugh at the damage a cow can do to heavy equipment. They cost us a small fortune when we tried putting the equipment in the pen to work.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

Is there a way to attach 18" wide broom heads to your drag?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Caledonian said:


> Is there a way to attach 18" wide broom heads to your drag?


I'm thinking more along the lines of bolting a 42' landscape rake head to a 2 x 4 which would be used as a drag... Found such a head for 14$, but out of stock locally. I may be able to pick up something similar elsewhere. 

I don't want to rent equipment or pay someone to do it because this is going to be an ongoing process. Those rocks keep on coming up to the surface. Frost heaves in the winter accelerate it. No matter how many rocks I pick, I feel like 3 more appear to replace each one I remove.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

Acadianartist said:


> I'm thinking more along the lines of bolting a 42' landscape rake head to a 2 x 4 which would be used as a drag... Found such a head for 14$, but out of stock locally. I may be able to pick up something similar elsewhere.
> 
> I don't want to rent equipment or pay someone to do it because this is going to be an ongoing process. Those rocks keep on coming up to the surface. Frost heaves in the winter accelerate it. No matter how many rocks I pick, I feel like 3 more appear to replace each one I remove.





I thought about a rake as well but wondered if the teeth would be too far apart. I used to have to do an area between buildings, nothing like the size of your arena, but I found a light brushing worked best during long periods of dry weather. It was a soul destroying job though, as walking over it kicked up new stones.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Acadianartist said:


> As for hand-picking, I'm not kidding when I say it is not an option. This is largish ring, and there are easily thousands of rocks.



A full thousand!!?? 



Lesee. Counting off seconds, I think a rock can be tossed into the cart with a shovel every three seconds.



1000/3=333 seconds=5 1/2 minutes. 6,000=33 minutes.


Sustaining 1 rock every 3 seconds might be hard, but make it 12 seconds, which should be easy, and it'd still not be hours and hours.


Just make up a song about how much you love Harley and sing while you work. The time will pass in no time. You'll be more fit even and you can buy something for Harley with the money saved.:hide:


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I know @Hondo, why don't you come pick my rocks for me, and I'll sit on the mounting block and time you! You know, just to verify the accuracy of your calculations!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Caledonian said:


> I thought about a rake as well but wondered if the teeth would be too far apart. I used to have to do an area between buildings, nothing like the size of your arena, but I found a light brushing worked best during long periods of dry weather. It was a soul destroying job though, as walking over it kicked up new stones.


I'm thinking of getting two of the 42" rakes and attaching them to the front and back of a 2 x 4. That will give stability to the whole thing (just one rake would flop right over I imagine) and I can offset them slightly to the teeth catch more rocks. If too many rocks are still slipping through, maybe add some screening of some sort as has been suggested. If it doesn't work, I've spent a total of 30$ and gained two long garden rakes and/or a fine grader for my sand. 

Will post pics when I can get this beast together and test it... then you can all laugh at me or admire my genius. Anyone care to take bets on which?


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Be more than happy to do that. Of course I must first finish singing to Hondo and picking up my rocks. I'll let you know.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Hondo said:


> Be more than happy to do that. Of course I must first finish singing to Hondo and picking up my rocks. I'll let you know.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I can sure sympathize with you Acadian, I worked up an area in the field beside the house for a riding ring and it was FULL of rocks, all sizes and shapes, and never ending. I would pick up a zillion after the ground was worked and then do it again and again and I never made much headway as every year more came up. 
I solved my problem by moving my horse over to my sister's and we did put some sand in one spot in the pasture right on the grass. The sand was too thick so had to have it scraped a couple of times making the riding area even bigger but now after three years I think we have it right. Too deep was hard on the horses.

I do think the only solution for you as I know that those dagnabbit rocks and stones will never stop coming up, would be to scrape away the top soil maybe lay some stone dust down and after that settles for a year put in some sand.
You might not have to do the whole area just enough for a schooling place.

I have to say I really do feel your frustration over this as it was pretty bad here for stone and rocks as well.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Of course there are some who claim a horse is best kept in areas similar to where they will be ridden.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Some trail Hondo, i can see you horse is very tuned in to the downside of that slope.

But for schooling purposes would you do that at a canter??:-?


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Hondo might do it at a canter if he smelled a lion. I swear we were coming down some very tight steep switch backs on that same trail and something got into him and I just said oh dear and tried to balance as lightly as I could. He wasn't cantering or even trotting but going faster than I thought possible. He was flat scooting.

In the video posted, I think something must have been moving off in the distance to the left as he is normally focused tightly on the trail ahead. I was actually holding the camera in my hand and watching it more than Hondo on that particular vid.


Hope I'm not drifting off topic too much. Still on horses and rocks 


There was one well known horseman in ancient Greece that wrote the first book about training and keeping horses. He recommended filling the paddock with with cobble stone. Might get him to come get our rocks for his paddock.


Can't really discount him as he rode Arabian stallions into battle bareback with a shield in one hand and a sword in the other. Wish he'd provided more detail on exactly how he pulled that off.


Wonder how he would have scored at showing?


Edit: No way to canter up that particular trail but cow pony rock horses in rougher Arizona canter through off trail stuff that is even rockier than the trail. How they keep track of their foot placements at speed is amazing. But they have to almost learn that from birth.


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## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

Hondo said:


> A full thousand!!??
> 
> Lesee. Counting off seconds, I think a rock can be tossed into the cart with a shovel every three seconds.
> 
> ...


Your math is a tad off... When you divided 1000 by 3, that implies three rocks per second, not three seconds per rock. You would have to multiply 1000 rocks x 3 seconds to get 3000 seconds. So it would actually be 50 minutes for 1000 rocks. Make that 12 seconds per rock (which is more reasonable considering you'd have to move the cart often too): 1000 x 12 = 12000 seconds or 200 minutes or 3+ hours. Add in the sun beating down on you and your back getting achey and new rocks always popping up from the sand as if they're falling from the sky, and I can understand why OP doesn't want to do that!

Sorry @Acadianartist, I don't mean to sidetrack your thread, I don't have any advice :hide:


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Not going to argue with anyone's math - all I know is I'm not picking up those rocks by hand.

My trimmer actually told me rocks are good, that they toughen up their feet. But my fragile-footed dainty Arab would beg to differ. I am not interested in shoes, and we have boots, but find that they only fit well at a certain point in the trim cycle (we trim every four weeks and I frequently rasp edges of cracks and chips in between). We are going to try to apply hoof armour. The trimmer is coming to help me do a first application, then I will re-apply after each trim. Price is reasonable, and it's something I can do myself. It will only be necessary in the summer months when he is ridden hard every day (mostly dressage work right now, but for about an hour and a half a day). 

Harley also tends to get a lot of stone bruises from crossing the brook to go to the back pasture. A lot of rocks in there too, some quite large ones, and I'm not picking those either. So the hoof armour will hopefully help with that issue as well.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> Your math is a tad off...



:redface:


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Preliminary trials of the patent using a regular garden rake have been disappointing. The tines are indeed a little too far apart, and they are to wide so they scrape up too much dirt along with the rocks. I shall be forced to reconsider and possibly even question my genious plan. A manure fork managed to scoop up some rocks, but alas, this has the undesirable consequence of making me work harder than I would like. 

Hoof armour and filtered sand seem to be the only viable options at this juncture.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Acadianartist said:


> Preliminary trials of the patent using a regular garden rake have been disappointing.



Based on your preliminary efforts, you should now be well suited to designing the perfect garden type rock rake for your particular application.


The materials should be easily found, but the design may likely require the use of a welder. If you nor hubby has one, perhaps you can offer to share the patent with a friend who does have a welder.


Bingo! A brainstorm just rolled in! You could design on to be pulled by a horse! If you were already driving a cart, you could simply attach the ATV rock rake to the back of the cart.


So much fun! I had already sort of thought about that in the past using a chain drag behind Hondo to scatter the biscuit piles over the 4.35 acres.


I have since decided that just lambasting a dry looking pile with the toe of my boot as I walk by to be keeping them scattered pretty well.


I wonder if that's where that familiar name for boots came from??


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

Acadianartist said:


> Preliminary trials of the patent using a regular garden rake have been disappointing. The tines are indeed a little too far apart, and they are to wide so they scrape up too much dirt along with the rocks. I shall be forced to reconsider and possibly even question my genious plan. A manure fork managed to scoop up some rocks, but alas, this has the undesirable consequence of making me work harder than I would like.
> 
> Hoof armour and filtered sand seem to be the only viable options at this juncture.





Did you use a grass rake with wide plastic tines? Perhaps a metal tine rake would work given that they are wire like; even tying another rake head to the first to fill in gaps.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Caledonian said:


> Did you use a grass rake with wide plastic tines? Perhaps a metal tine rake would work given that they are wire like; even tying another rake head to the first to fill in gaps.


No, I used a garden or landscaping rake, not a leaf rake. The problem with them is that the tines are also too wide, catching a lot of dirt as well as rocks, so you just end up with a pile from which you have to pick out the rocks. Also, it would get heavy very quickly.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Hondo said:


> The materials should be easily found, but the design may likely require the use of a welder. If you nor hubby has one, perhaps you can offer to share the patent with a friend who does have a welder.


Indeed, said husband has a friend who is such a person and he has made a few things for us in the past. If I can dream it, he can make it. But I am still leaning towards a low-tech solution. Like, what if I drove spike nails into a 2 x 4 so that they're fairly close together? Also, at what point do these projects become more work than the actual hand-picking of the objectionable inanimate objects? These are questions I ponder late at night...


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

The spikes will need to be fairly strong so fairly large in diameter also. Should probably drill some holes a little smaller than the spikes so the wood doesn't split. Got any old oak wood?


Work? Inventing and building is a labor of love not work.


Better to think about than counting sheep. 



That's how they used to make rakes before we had stores. Go for it!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I know this thread is a few months old, but I can sympathize with you. A couple of years ago, my very nice, now deceased, neighbor dropped off a couple of loads of sand for me from his pit. While the sand part was awesome, it was full of rock! I would still be picking rock, although I did pick up all the big ones. My husband went over it with a bobcat and packed it down, he said it was road mulch, not sand. Packing it down and dragging the top did help, for a few months and I still had to pick some rocks, but the horses had to stay shod or I had to use hoof boots. He did the same this year packed it down with the bobcat and then dragged the top with a chain drag. And again I picked a ton of rocks. If it was left alone, meaning not dragged, it got really hard, kind of like a driveway. This year I had enough, once we had all the wet weather done with, which is only been a couple of weeks, I ordered a half a dozen loads of washed arena sand. We did a little prep work first. I dug a bunch of underground drainage lines and put drain rock in, added several kick out drains along the berm and covered it over with the road mulch. Then we had a really bad rainstorm, those drains really worked! After the rain, that arena surface was rock hard again. After the sand came, we leveled it and it has been perfect. I even have to water it in the evening because it gets dusty when I ride. So besides our labor, under $2000 which I will save in a few years of not getting the horses shod, extra diesel for maintenance, I can pull the drag with the small truck,I have a perfect arena. We will see how it weathers the winter, when the snow is deep I usually ride on the road anyway.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Nice!!!

Not in the budget for me, I'm afraid, but I will get a load of filtered sand before things get too cold... partly because I want to set some aside for winter. Meantime, I'm still dragging and picking rocks with my manure fork. 

So the sand is not too deep? I worry about that too. Our arena gets pretty firm too, except for some soft areas. When my daughter goes off-property and rides Harley in deep sand, she doesn't like it and I worry about his tendons.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

There is two spots that are a little deeper, because they were the low spots, but overall no. For the most part it is 3 inches deep. The cheaper sand I had in there before the road mulch was dropped, was okay, but as I dragged it, it settled into the lower areas the higher areas where almost sandless. I would only get one or two loads every five or six years, it obviously wasn't enough. Those were the only spots that I could practice spins with Otis, the harder ground, he wouldn't do it correctly. Also, there was no way I was jumping Indy on that harder ground. After the neighbor dropped off a few loads of "sand" and we leveled it, and I picked the bigger rocks, it was quite good. Then the rocks kept coming up and coming up. With the proper sand in there now, both horses are moving out a lot better and Otis is even doing sliding stops, barefoot. 
I know what your daughter means about the too soft arenas. Our warm up arena at the local grounds was like that. I believe our club just picked out an area that we wanted for a warm up arena and fenced it off and dumped a bunch of sand in there. Nobody liked it, one of our club members graciously fixed it, I believe he removed half the sand and put it in the pile at the one end of the arena, that's what it looks like he did to me anyways, lol. It's decent now, but not like an arena that was prepped properly with a solid base.


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