# Maybe she could be a jumper?



## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Any conformation photos? She is hanging her legs very low over the jump (which can be dangerous), which could be the fact that it was the first time she was jumping that way, that the jump is not that high, or could be structural.


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## rlr21791 (Oct 2, 2012)

Tryst said:


> Any conformation photos? She is hanging her legs very low over the jump (which can be dangerous), which could be the fact that it was the first time she was jumping that way, that the jump is not that high, or could be structural.


Maybe it's the angle of the picture, but she tucks her legs completely against herself. 
This is about the only confo shot I have of her.


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## silverxslinky (Jul 23, 2013)

Ok I'm no expert but I think that horse could probably do lower jumpers pretty easily. She seems to have enough scope for it, and while the angle of the photo/video isn't great she seems to have a clean safe style. I think your jumps may be a bit close together, she seems to be popping out from a close spot which might account for her overjumping a bit.

There are things about her conformation that lead me to believe she might have some talent as a jumper too, she has a nice long neck, a very nice open shoulder angle, and a back of proportionate length. She looks fairly level. Her hip and hock angles in that photo look ok but not ideal. She might lack the power to get over really big stuff but I would guess she'd be fine over moderate heights. 

That being said there's also a lot about her that's not great for this career. She has a large head, which will affect her balance. She is very fine boned especially in front, is tied in and over the knee and has long pasterns. Her back has a very slight roach, but that shouldn't be to big of an issue. She is also turned out behind. 

She's a cute mare, and she looks like she has a style that might be effective. But I doubt she'd ever make a grand prix jumper, and I would be seriously concerned about her ability to do the job without having soundess issues especially in the long term. I'm sure she could be a competitive lower level jumper, but I would carefully manage her training schedule and would get her some proper leg protection if you decide to go that route. 

Best of luck!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Not a jumper (at least not over 2'6") for a lot of reasons. 

First, and foremost she has an inadequate shoulder and a poor neck to chest tie in. Her shoulder is a bit steep and her point of shoulder is low. Her humerus lays fairly flat and her neck ties into her chest low. These things combine to make her unable physically to raise her knees and (at least) get a level fore arm over fences. So.. she hangs her knees because she physically cannot fold at her elbow to raise her knees because the humerus is flat lying and her low neck set prevents it. The reason she folds her lower legs is that she is being careful and is avoiding hitting the jump. Horses cannot see the jump the last stride up to it so they must judge the height and the power they need to clear it the second stride back. 

In addition to an inadequate front end, she is light bones and tied in at the knee. These combinations will take their toll as she schools over fences. 

Her back is long and she has a dip in her coupling area indicating she has had some issues in the sacro iliac area. This makes her back stiff over fences and impacts her scope. She is NOT scopey in either photo.. she is stiff through the back and using her head and neck to make up for it! 

Her hind leg appears to have adequate angles but the hock is light as is the cannon below it. Again, jumping will take its toll on this construction as the stress on the hock is huge when a horse pushes itself over a fence. 

Can she jump? Yes. Should she jump? nothing past 2'6" for sure.. and remember, for every ride in the ring under a judge you ride 100 times at home training over fences. That is a lot of stress on the horse and with this horse I believe you will see it take its toll and shorten her work lifespan.


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## rlr21791 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ok so I have a few questions as I am a complete newbie when it comes to jumping. Could you explain what scope is if she doessnt have any? I was thinking that scope was the way they tuck their legs into their body over a jump. 
Also could any of these things be due to the fact that this was her first time in a chute? And she's never jumped over anything higher than 2 feet before. She is a complete green jumper. Also isn't the roach on her back due to not having a top line or much muscle in her hindend?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Larissa (Jan 25, 2014)

rlr21791 said:


> Ok so I have a few questions as I am a complete newbie when it comes to jumping. Could you explain what scope is if she doessnt have any? I was thinking that scope was the way they tuck their legs into their body over a jump.
> Also could any of these things be due to the fact that this was her first time in a chute? And she's never jumped over anything higher than 2 feet before. She is a complete green jumper. Also isn't the roach on her back due to not having a top line or much muscle in her hindend?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Imo scope is the ability to clear jumps well and correctly. This mare doesn't have scope.. She is staining to clear the jumps. She can't get her legs bent enough. How she has her legs tucked, looks rather poor no offense. It is her conformation and sadly you cannot change that. No, it isn't because she is green to jumping. It is her conformation. And the dip/roach/etc whatever you want to call it isn't because of the top line or muscling it is exactly as Elana said. Elana is very very good with conformation. I always look forward to seeing her responses. Honestly, if I were you. I wouldn't jump her. I would just enjoy her because you WILL end up with soundness probs from jumping her. She just isn't built for it.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Your horse has physical limitations. Much like a person. All can learn low level gymnnastics.. but only those with both the drive and the physical ability can go past low level to anything higher. 

Here are two images of jumpers with scope.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Here is a photo of a flat jumper that has enough shoulder to get a nice front end, but lacks scope. This horse is perfect for equitation over fences because the rider is not jarred.


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## rlr21791 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thank you to everyone for the responses. Always interesting to see what people can see from a video. 
My mare has started her 60 days of jumping training as of last night, so I guess we will just have to wait and see how she does. After watching the free jump my trainer was very excited to get her training started. In our opinions she has great scope considering her legs are flush against her body and she cleared the jump by a good foot her first time ever in the chute. 
Our plans are to do mid level stuff, nothing excessive as I don't really have the time to show. 
She has been vet checked and the vet has no concerns with her ability to stay sound for our plans. Again thanks everyone for your input!!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

And this is a horse that is very limited and stiff over fences. Not quite dangerous.. but certainly limited. Cannot get knees up, loose below the knees and lacking scope.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This is a horse I would not jump at all. With knees pointed down, this horse is in danger of "catching a rail" and having a rotational fall (the most dangerous sort of fall for both horse and rider).


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The issue is the OP's horse is physically unable to close the angle at the foreleg to chest. I have circled the limited area on the horse with scope and the OP's horse. 

This angle must close.. and if the humerus lays a bit flat, this angle is too acute and it is physically impossible for the horse to close that angle to the degree needed.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Good luck with your training.


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## Larissa (Jan 25, 2014)

Good luck with your trainer and training. I hope she remains sound. I think you should've payed a little more attention to Elana though. She knows her stuff good. And it concerns me that your trainer and vet didn't even notice the physical limits your horse has.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

OP any horse can jump. 
Can all horses jump with a rider and stay sound? No. Its your mare do with her as you please. Her conformation limits her abilities when she jumps. Her long term soundness may be in question.
Its your call. 
I would not jump this mare or have her trained for competition unless on the flat or just for fun. Too much stress and you may have a lame horse... for life. Shalom.


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