# Romney visits Israel.



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I don't know db, it certianly would appear that visiting Palestine, and issueing an apology to muslims while there would have been better for his career.


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

Missy May said:


> I don't know db, it certianly would appear that visiting Palestine, and issueing an apology to muslims while there would have been better for his career.


Please explain your thoughts on this.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Missy May I don't care about his career.
His selfcentered trips overseas not only highlighted his obvious ignorance of foriegn policy but his disregard for other religious obsevances.
His arraogance has cost him in the primarys.
It is very telling that he has refused to learn from his mistakes.
Visiting the Western Wall should never be about you but about your reverance for the G-D of Israel and the jewish people.
He could have timed his visit before or after the Holy Day.
The Wall has been there for several thousand years.
It is not in danger of disapearing tommorrow.
If he really wanted to show his concern for the Mideast he could have vistied the Dome of the Rock also.
It is only a matter of a few feet away.
But that would not have won him any votes. Now would it? Shalom


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

But it would be discriminatory if Mitt Romney didn't **** off or offend every country he visited. Don't you think?
At least the man is consistent!


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Silent one said:


> Please explain your thoughts on this.


Well, I was going with the incumbent's pattern of doing things. It seems that he believes the western world in general has a lot of apologizing to do, w emphasis on the US - and everyone loves him for it. The US sends a lot of aid to both countries, but Israel has applied western technology to better itself, but not so much Palestine. So, it would make sense that, if he wanted the same admiration Obama gets for his actions, he would apologize to muslims from an area that seems to epitomize the muslim community....which is to blame the US and Israel for all of their ills.

I, personally, figure politicains make gaffes. I am only interested in who is best suited to represent the US in what is left of its democratic republic.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Listening to his rich secular American Jewish donors that were flown in to increase the numbers from 20 to about 70 for a breakfast to show support for his policies has earned him scorn from most Jews.
Excluding the Palestinians from the road to peace in the region onloy returns the US to the blind loyalty of Bush.
Which by the way resulted in 8 years of stagnation and lost progress.
This only prolonged the problem.
Obamas stated policy is the same as every US President since Nixon,
The region needs Peace not rhetoric. Shalom


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

"Governor Romney will sit down with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders on Sunday,"

How Obama 'beat' Romney to Israel ... with a White House signing ceremony - Yahoo! News


In an pre-arranged meeting, would Netanyahu not have asked for a different day to meet if this Holy Day was an offensive one for Romney to be in the Country?


btw: "Not only hasObama not visited Israel as president, he said, but he reminded the audience that *Biden had shown “disrespect”* for Israel when he delayed his arrival at a March 2010 dinner meeting at Mr. Netanyahu’s residence to protest an announcement of new settlement construction."

“The vice president of the United States kept the Israeli head of state [sic] waiting 90 minutes for dinner *because he was having a temper tantrum,”*


Strange that no one has made a condemning comment about the highlighted part. Funny how one sided things can get 

I also do not remember a lot of criticism about Obama wanting Israel to return to it's 1967 borders either.


.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm quite surprised that Romney was not warned about what he'll be doing by Israel officials. So I assume it was OK with them as well? I'm not defending Romney here BTW, just wondering.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

kitten_Val said:


> I'm quite surprised that Romney was not warned about what he'll be doing by Israel officials. So I assume it was OK with them as well? I'm not defending Romney here BTW, just wondering.


No need to wonder. Of course a US presidential candidate clears all international visits with the appropriate government officials - if nothing else, for security reasons. The Israeli government obviously had no issue with the visit or it would have been scheduled for another time...


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

^^ FM, that was my understanding of the situation. IMO the Israel officials should arrange the visit in a way not to offend people. Unless Romney insisted on going there exactly on that day (which I doubt).


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

What Romney's plan is w respect to the US's national deficit is far more important to the US than a religious oopsy. I think the non-importance of Rev. Wright set the precedence for any actions pertaining to religion. Vatican city or Isreal do not decide my vote...I kind of think that is what the founding fathers of the _US_ had in mind.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

A visit to the western wall was probably arranged in advance.
Shoving and jostling people that are praying aside for a photo op however was not planned.
I am not a fan of the israeli prime Minister or his party. i have neverf voted for him nad will not.
He is catching flack from Israeli citizens as we speak for allowing this to happen.
Remember Romney and Netanyahu have worked together and are close.
Missy May it isn't and OOPs moment to most jews it is a slap in the face to our religion and cultur. I understand that the signifigance of the Holy Day is lost on most non jews. Interrupting someone who is praying is not only rude it is intolerant.
Romney allowed hiself to be used to show the orthodox community the disdain that the Isreali Prime Minister has for them.
Even if it was cleared by the government Romney and his advisers should have been forwarned of the controversy this would bring about.
IMO it only highlights his arrogance. Shalom


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

dbarabians said:


> A visit to the western wall was probably arranged in advance.
> Shoving and jostling people that are praying aside for a photo op however was not planned.
> I am not a fan of the israeli prime Minister or his party. i have neverf voted for him nad will not.
> He is catching flack from Israeli citizens as we speak for allowing this to happen.
> ...


Protocols are determined by government representatives of the countgry being visited, which has nothing to do with Romney. If there is/was a problem, it may reflect on the Israeli government, but not on Romney. To try and make it so is grasping for political straws...no surprise, as neither Obama nor his supporters can run on his record, which is the worst of any President on record. So far in the last couple of days we have seen liberals post this thread trying to blame Romney for something not his fault, and a ridiculous thread dissing Mrs. Romney because she owns horses. This stuff ranks right up there with some of the ridiculous junk the wacko conservatives accused Obama of when he ran the first time.

People need to wake up, look around them, and vote on the issues. Not voting on the issues is what got us in the shape we are in...


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Faceman, I have no problem with the man visiting Israel or the Western Wall. It iks how and when he did it that has me offended.
when he was asked about his visit in Poland at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier his spokesman demanded that the media "show some respect this is a holy site to the polish people". That is plain and simple hypocrisy.
The body of a dead soldier does not compare to the Temple of G-D.i do Not care what party he is from.
I would not be happy if Obama or anyone else showed such blatant disrespect for a Holy site or a Holy Day. That I can assure you.
This is not about a liberal or conservative debate it is about respect.
Being a member of a church that is as misunderstood as the LDS I expected Romney to show a lot more respect towards other religions.
A photo op at the Western Wall is one thing. All dignitaries visit it.
You know as well as I do that if a high level US official wants to visit any thing in Israel it is not denied them.
Glenn Beck was denied the opprotunity last year to stage a rally at the same place due to its religous signifigance.
Like Beck, Romney flew in supporters to increase the numbers to his campaign breakfast. Only 20 places were reserved so at least 50 people were imported for this photo op. maybe he should have realized the failure of his mission and shown some restraint instead of degrading a Holy Place. Shalom


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Faceman said:


> So far in the last couple of days we have seen liberals post this thread trying to blame Romney for something not his fault, and a ridiculous thread dissing Mrs. Romney because she owns horses. This stuff ranks right up there with some of the ridiculous junk the wacko conservatives accused Obama of when he ran the first time.
> 
> People need to wake up, look around them, and vote on the issues. Not voting on the issues is what got us in the shape we are in...


I don't vote, as I am not an American - and actually I posted my response to that, it was nothing to do with me being a wacko liberal and everything to do with me not knowing that Mrs Romney was even a half decent horsewoman. 



My wacko agenda has a new opinion, America has supported Israel for years because it supports the Christian agenda to return all the Jewish people for the second coming of Christ.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

AlexS said:


> I don't vote, as I am not an American - and actually I posted my response to that, it was nothing to do with me being a wacko liberal and everything to do with me not knowing that Mrs Romney was even a half decent horsewoman.
> 
> 
> 
> My wacko agenda has a new opinion, America has supported Israel for years *because it supports the Christian agenda to return all the Jewish people for the second coming of Christ.*





*HUH? and this means?*


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Isn't the born again belief that all the Jewish people need to be returned to the Holy land so that Jesus can come again?

I don't know that for sure, but it is a pretty commonly held belief amongst myself and the people I knew in England, that this was why America supported Israel so much.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Alex S in defense of most christians and US policy, Israel is given preference mostly because it is the only demorcatic state in the region.
It is also the most stable and most advanced.
In the battle against muslim extremist the Israeli Mossad has the most effective network of spies in the world. 
It shares this information with its allies the strongest of which is the USA.
The US benefits greatly from this relationship,. Shalom


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> Alex S in defense of most christians and US policy, Israel is given preference mostly because it is the only demorcatic state in the region.
> It is also the most stable and most advanced.
> In the battle against muslim extremist the Israeli Mossad has the most effective network of spies in the world.
> It shares this information with its allies the strongest of which is the USA.
> The US benefits greatly from this relationship,. Shalom


I don't disagree with any of those statements, I think you are correct - however I don't believe it to be the main reason.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

AlexS said:


> I don't disagree with any of those statements, I think you are correct - however I don't believe it to be the main reason.


I think Donald is correct here. Religious considerations has nothing to do with US support of Israel.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

dbarabians said:


> Faceman, I have no problem with the man visiting Israel or the Western Wall. It iks how and when he did it that has me offended.
> when he was asked about his visit in Poland at the tomb of the Unknown Soldier his spokesman demanded that the media "show some respect this is a holy site to the polish people". That is plain and simple hypocrisy.
> The body of a dead soldier does not compare to the Temple of G-D.i do Not care what party he is from.
> I would not be happy if Obama or anyone else showed such blatant disrespect for a Holy site or a Holy Day. That I can assure you.
> ...


Well, that is just your opinion. In my opinion he degraded nothing, and you are placing blame where it does not belong...


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

AlexS said:


> I don't disagree with any of those statements, I think you are correct - however I don't believe it to be the main reason.


Well, your reason is at the bottom of the list - if it is even on the list. There are many reasons the US supports Israel. Israel is very important logistically, politically, and economically. Also, don't forget the influence of Jews in the US is grossly disproportionate to their population. That is not meant as a negative...it is merely stating because of their great influence that touches all of us daily, we as a society have a natural affinity for supporting their homeland...


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Faceman if anyone offends a religion or ethnicity in my prescence I make a point of objecting. You have as well on this forum.
If Romney witnessed praying people being jostled and disrupted then He as the Dignitary could have stopped his security detachment from continuing. The blame IS ROMNEYS.
Funny how Obama is blamed for things his cabinet members say and do but Romney and other conservatives are given a pass on this.
Scooter Libby is brought to mind.
If something happens during a presidents term then He alone is responsible.
The Buck stops there.
Yes I am offended and am taking this personal.
Most christians would if it happened to them.
If Obama interupted praying christians the right would renew the senseles claims that he is a Muslim.
I have in the past not attacked Romney as i feel he is a moderate and not some idealogue conservative.
Also being a Morman I thought he would be a lot more understanding of other religions. 
I see now that i was very wrong. Shalom


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

dbarabians said:


> Faceman if anyone offends a religion or ethnicity in my prescence I make a point of objecting. You have as well on this forum.
> If Romney witnessed praying people being jostled and disrupted then He as the Dignitary could have stopped his security detachment from continuing. The blame IS ROMNEYS.
> Funny how Obama is blamed for things his cabinet members say and do but Romney and other conservatives are given a pass on this.
> Scooter Libby is brought to mind.
> ...


I am disappointed by your lack of objectivity - not that my feelings are of anyone's concern but my own. You are singling out an isolated incident that is arguably offensive to be critical of Romney, yet Obama has had a very shaky relationship with Israel since taking office, and has been far more offensive in his policies. Furthermore, Obama has slapped his (supposed) own Christian faith in the face on the abortion issue and also on the issue of homosexual marriage, on which he recently and spinelessly flip-flopped to shore up his anti-Christian constituency. You furthermore seem to not care that he followed and supported the Nonreverend Wright for over 20 years, bringing up his children in a church that preaches hatred and murder.

Put Obama's religious indescretions on one end of a scale and Romney's on the other, and Romney will be launched into space...


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Face, Obama did not slap Christians, unless you are only referring to the fundamentalists. Many Christians are pro choice and have no problems with gay marriage. Many Christian denominations even have no problems with gay clerics. 

DB is pointing out that Romney made this trip to show his international political savvy. he fell quite flat. In England, for sure. British papers were all in an uproar over several ill planned remarks. He did the same elsewhere. Here he was trying to prove he had what it takes. 

If he didn't have the staff that would have, at least, been able to make up for his foolishness of planning a visit to the wall on that particular day, then he isn't very astute on his choice of international advisers either.

I sure wasn't impressed....and I guess many others agree.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Faceman said:


> I am disappointed by your lack of objectivity - not that my feelings are of anyone's concern but my own. You are singling out an isolated incident that is arguably offensive to be critical of Romney, yet Obama has had a very shaky relationship with Israel since taking office, and has been far more offensive in his policies. Furthermore, Obama has slapped his (supposed) own Christian faith in the face on the abortion issue and also on the issue of homosexual marriage, on which he recently and spinelessly flip-flopped to shore up his anti-Christian constituency. You furthermore seem to not care that he followed and supported the Nonreverend Wright for over 20 years, bringing up his children in a church that preaches hatred and murder.
> 
> Put Obama's religious indescretions on one end of a scale and Romney's on the other, and _*Romney will be launched into space*_...


 
Cool! Sounds like a plan.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

DB,

Do you feel Obama wanting Israel to regress to 1967 borders is good?

Did you object when Biden was rude and arrogant (it was on purpose, btw) by being 90 minutes late to a dinner with Netanyahu?

Just curios 



.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Faceman I am very objective and this has nothing to do with Obama or politics.
Democratic support for a womans right to choose and same sex marriage is not a slap in the face of any religion.
May I remind you that we live in a secular country and that no religion or beliefs are given precedence over others. Those issues are about rights not religion..
Now it is natural for us to hold negative images about things we do not like or agree with.
Before this the major negative I had about Romney was his party affiliation.
I did not find fault with every thing he did or said as most conservatives have with Obama. Now I find it very hard to find anything positive about the man.
Newt Gingrich or GW Bush would never have allowed these controversies to arise because they would have avoided them. Romneys belief that his support for Israel would overshadow his lack poor judgement at The Western Wall is proving to be false.
His visit to the Western Wall has rallied jewish donors to the president in the last few days. Myself included. Shalom


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Hmmm...
I wonder how much commotion ANY President or major public figure causes when they attend a religious service, like Christmas services etc...? Quite a bit, but they are seen as SUPPORTING that religion. Romney goes and it's seen as a slight?

I'm no huge supporter of him, but so what.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

DB, you would support him regardless. I'm going to support the man who understands AMERICAN economics and it's Constitution. I'm not voting for their Religion or their view on mine, just as long as I believe they will not take away my freedom to practice the way I see fit or bias others against it.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I wonder why he is getting so much attention for his travels abroad. He is still only a private citizen. He does NOT represent this country in any formal capacity and yet his actions abroad are being taken to represent us, and he seems to encourage that perception. He should behave as a tourist, not a diplomat, since he is not hired for the job yet.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

STG every US President and this countries policies have been since Nixon to return israel to its pre 67 borders in accordance with the UN guidelines.
It is not Obamas policy. Its been in place for years.
There are 4 million people that live in the occuppied territories STG.
The israelis do not have a mandate from G-D ,as they did when they reentered the land ,to eliminate every man, woman, child, and living creature under Joshua.
since the arab countries did not absorb them they excist as the worlds longest refugee problem
The State of Israel was founded as a Democratic Jewish State.
If it maintains control over all the land it will cease to be Jewish and Demcratic. This is why as an Israeli citizen i reside in the USA.
The American in me demands democracy. The Jew demands a jewish state. We cant have all those two and the land also.
Only the strict Zionist which most Jews are not, believe that the land is more important than democracy or Israels jewish identiity. Shalom


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Flygap it is about the uncaring way the matter was handled.
Pushing aside praying people that have fasted and refrained from pleasure is not cool.
Observant jews do not bath wear new or fancy clothes eat or drink do nothing for pleasure in the days leading up to Tish B'av.
we are not talking about some joyous occasion here but a very solemn one. One of mourning. Now do you understand? Shalom


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

dba,

These two statements in the same post seem to contradict each other:

*"Faceman I am very objective ...."*

yet

*"Before this the major negative I had about Romney was his party affiliation. Now I find it very hard to find anything positive about the man."
*
This event caused you to lose you objectivity. You know how this works.

This is really personal and hurtful for you and my wish for you is:

Shalom, my friend.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

dbarabians said:


> STG every US President and this countries policies have been since Nixon to return israel to its pre 67 borders in accordance with the UN guidelines.
> It is not Obamas policy. Its been in place for years.
> There are 4 million people that live in the occuppied territories STG.
> The israelis do not have a mandate from G-D ,as they did when they reentered the land ,to eliminate every man, woman, child, and living creature under Joshua.
> ...


I think I remember something about Bush saying the same thing and Clinton I believe advocated for 1949 Borders.

Guess that is why I am not a Politician , telling another Country to relinquish it's borders to me would be like another Country or the UN telling the USA to give back Texas to Mexico. 


.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm sure Christmas and Easter are taken just as seriously by most of the devout Christians I know, the birth and death of our savior is pretty significant. It is Holy for us. Just because people decided to capitalize on it and turn it into a shopping spree doesn't make the true reason for the holidays any less significant to believers. Just because the traditions are vastly different makes it no more or less important.

From what I have read, he was welcome, he was also praised with words of encouragement while he was there by several bystanders... and escorted by the wall's chief Rabbi. This is all being blown out of proportion.

Kind of like how Ann was ridiculed by the media for being an uber rich snob when she wore a $900 shirt, then Michelle was praised for being a fashion icon... when she spent $9,000 on a jacket.
Same thing is going on here.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Flygap bystanders that were planted there in advance.
If anyone else was to disrupt the serenity of the Wall they would be pelted with stones , dirty diapers and rotten fruit.
Women are not allowed to approach the Wall without being properly dressed.
I am as upset with the Orthodox Jews and their hypocrisy as I am with Romeny.
Jews however do not discuss our shortcomings with nonjews.
Our fights stay within the family boundaries so to speak. Shalom


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> I wonder why he is getting so much attention for his travels abroad. He is still only a private citizen. He does NOT represent this country in any formal capacity and yet his actions abroad are being taken to represent us, and he seems to encourage that perception. He should behave as a tourist, not a diplomat, since he is not hired for the job yet.


He is not, nor will he be a simple tourist. He is out to prove to the world's leaders (and the American people) that he is a proven statesman. He has a LOT riding on his ability to shine. He has only proven how unready he is for the job. Even Obama did better when he did the same thing prior to being elected. He was getting high marks on his "prove himself" tour.

You don't think he is representing the country here?










Looks to me like he is....or. at least, wants to be.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

dbarabians said:


> Faceman I am very objective and this has nothing to do with Obama or politics.
> *Democratic support for a womans right to choose and same sex marriage is not a slap in the face of any religion*.
> May I remind you that we live in a secular country and that no religion or beliefs are given precedence over others. Those issues are about rights not religion..
> Now it is natural for us to hold negative images about things we do not like or agree with.
> ...


RE the first bolded statement - it most certainly is when it utilizes tax dollars, and it most certainly is when employers that oppose abortion are forced to provide abortion coverage in their insurance.

RE the red hilighted statement - duh...when those who oppose abortion are forced to pay for abortions, that is indeed giving a preference to beliefs. Of course you don't see that, because as I said you are not objective and only see things from one perspective.

The jewish vote is a Democratic block vote as well as being statistically insignificant. While Romney is making an effort to garner what Jewish votes he can, which is logical, no one in their right mind would think he could garner any meaningful percentage of it, and the insignificance of the numbers renders it rather moot anyway.

Offensive or not, the whole incident is insignificant in relation to far more important issues. If you base your voting decision on that incident, I have to question whether you consider a handful of offended Israelis more important that the issues we are confronted with. Obama, Bush - all Presidents make international booboos. Is your loyalty with Israel or the US? Considering your position on this issue and how you so consistently integrate Israel with US politics, policies, and philosophy, that question is obviously rhetorical...


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Flygap that rabbi is far from tolerant of other religions.
A few years ago he disrupted a sevice on Christmas Eve by starting a riot .
His reasoning Christians do not belong in the Holy city.
I assure you I was upset then and protested his actions.
When it comes to religion I may be a little touchy. I will defend yours as well as mine as loudly as I can.
Romney was used by the Prime Minister and the Rabbi to send a message to the muslims . 
Romney ought to be intelligent enough to avoid such hazards. Shalom


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

What Kind of people throw rotten fruit, stones and dirty diapers at another person that offended them.

Do they carry these items around with them on the off chance that they might have the oportunity to throw said items?

Are the items in baskets on the street so they have ample ammunition if they feel slighted?

Maybe I should take some choice Items like this with me to Midnight Mass so I can pelt the parishiners comming in late and disrupting my prayers.

I don't get it, you mentioned this practice of throwing disgusting items, like it was a badge of honor, here in the USA it is assalt.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Taffy Clayton said:


> What Kind of people throw rotten fruit, stones and dirty diapers at another person that offended them.
> 
> Do they carry these items around with them on the off chance that they might have the oportunity to throw said items?
> 
> ...


Rather uncivilized, isn't it?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I do not agree with the practice.
I am not an Orthodox Jew either.
There are neighborhoods where women that do not cover their arms or that show their legs in public are harrassed the same way.
Selling secualr magazines or newspapers can get your stand blown up or you beaten.
All by other Jews to enforce their strict religous beliefs.
These are the people that Romney reached out to in Israel.
That yelled encouragement to him. Shalom


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Taffy Clayton said:


> Maybe I should take some choice Items like this with me to Midnight Mass so I can pelt the parishiners comming in late and disrupting my prayers.


Taffy, eggs and rotten tomatoes do wonder (in case you decide to try)... :rofl:


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Faceman. the State of Israel IS very civilized.
With a very low crime rate, higher levels of education, lower divorce rates, and teenage pregnancy almost unheard of the State of Israel need not defend itself on that charge.
You can walk the streets without the fear of robbery rape or murder.
I would rather have dirty diapers thrown than bullets. Shalom


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> Face, Obama did not slap Christians, unless you are only referring to the fundamentalists. Many Christians are pro choice and have no problems with gay marriage. Many Christian denominations even have no problems with gay clerics.


Being a true Christian is more than just a label someone attaches to themselves. Calling oneself a Christian, while not following the Christian Bible or practicing Christian ethics, is just a label.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

dbarabians said:


> *Faceman. the State of Israel IS very civilized.*
> With a very low crime rate, higher levels of education, lower divorce rates, and teenage pregnancy almost unheard of the State of Israel need not defend itself on that charge.
> You can walk the streets without the fear of robbery rape or murder.
> I would rather have dirty diapers thrown than bullets. Shalom


You really shouldn't state that as fact, but rather your opinion.

I, for one, don't consider throwing human excrement as civilized...that is something monkeys do. If you want to condone that, OK - that is your choice. But civilized? Not...


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## Country Boy (Jul 4, 2012)

Why are we even arguing about something as dubmb as this?! This isn't what's going to determine how you people vote is it?!


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

Country Boy said:


> Why are we even arguing about something as dubmb as this?! This isn't what's going to determine how you people vote is it?!


I've not read every single post but to me, it's a spirited discussion and not an argument. And an interesting one, I might add. 

And if this is the deciding factor on how someone votes, well, that is their choice isn't it?


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

Silent one said:


> Being a true Christian is more than just a label someone attaches to themselves. Calling oneself a Christian, while not following the Christian Bible or practicing Christian ethics, is just a label.



"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you"

Doesn't leave much room for debate when it comes to abortion in the Christian world, does it?

I very much agree with you. You can call yourself anything you want, but actually believing and following the Bible is what makes you a Christian.


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Faceman said:


> You really shouldn't state that as fact, but rather your opinion.
> 
> I, for one, don't consider throwing human excrement as civilized...that is something monkeys do. If you want to condone that, OK - that is your choice. But civilized? Not...


Hmm, now that made me pause and think.

“Civilized” or not, I think I would rather get hit with a wad of sh*t (sorry, excrement) any day over taking a bullet. At least fecal matter bounces off, and what doesn’t bounce washes off with good old soap and water. 
Bullets…. well those generally maim, kill, terrify, and otherwise cause a whole lot more harm. 

Now perhaps because I’m generally covered in sh*t (sorry, excrement) on a daily basis (goat poo, alpaca poo, horse poo, donkey poo, chicken poo [the Worst!] and sometimes even child poo… then add the various snot and vomit of the afore mentioned things) and haven’t come to any harm from it yet, I must just be a bit immune to the idea it.

Yeah, bullets are soooo much more “civilized.”

On another note, I consider my state of PA to be generally civilized, however all anyone has to do lately is pick up a newspaper or check it online to read and know what happened at Happy Valley with Penn State. -Which I believe to be *far* worse than tossing poo.
Does that make PA uncivilized?


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Country Boy said:


> Why are we even arguing about something as dubmb as this?! This isn't what's going to determine how you people vote is it?!


I know it's hard to believe, but evidently those kinds of things do affect how some people vote, although personally I think they just use it as an excuse. The Democrats seemed to be OK with Clinton's perverted and immoral escapades with Monica Lewinsky,and think it is OK that Obama attended and raised his children in a church that preaches racial hatred, but Romney is hanged in effigy for inadvertently offending a handful of people in a foreign country even though his visit was cleared through proper channels. And it's OK for Ben and Jerry's to espouse their views on homosexual marriage, but it is a universal catastrophy if Chic Fil A expresses theirs. Democrats have such a consistency in principles, you know...:think:

As I said earlier, not voting on the issues is what got us into the mess we are in.

Much of the success and legacy of our Presidents is dependent upon the times in which they serve. Some serve at a time when their philosophy is just what we need - whether liberal or conservative. Others unfortunately serve in times where their philosophy is counterproductive and causes harm. Reagan and Clinton, for example, served at the right time. Both were effective and provided what the country needed at the time. Bush was a mixed bag...we needed a President like him in his first term, but his ignorance of economics and his obsession with Iraq made him counterproductive and harmful in his second term. In Obama's case, perhaps he would be effective in another time, but he is absolutely the opposite of what we need today. A person whose entire career, including his time as President, has been devoted to securing and spending as many tax dollars as possible, is not what is needed in a time of financial crisis and soaring debt. One would think that would be obvious to even the most casual and uninformed observer, but evidently it is not...


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Lockwood said:


> Hmm, now that made me pause and think.
> 
> “Civilized” or not, I think I would rather get hit with a wad of sh*t (sorry, excrement) any day over taking a bullet. At least fecal matter bounces off, and what doesn’t bounce washes off with good old soap and water.
> Bullets…. well those generally maim, kill, terrify, and otherwise cause a whole lot more harm.
> ...


Perhaps you can jog my memory, but I don't recall any incidents recently where Americans opened fire with guns on foreign dignitaries from friendly countries that were visiting us. The "analogy" was absurd when db brought it up and it is still absurd...


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Faceman said:


> Perhaps you can jog my memory, but I don't recall any incidents recently where Americans opened fire with guns on foreign dignitaries from friendly countries that were visiting us. The "analogy" was absurd when db brought it up and it is still absurd...


No, I can’t jog your memory on that one as I was speaking in generalities. Nor did I think Db's analogy was absurd.

I’m not good at multi-quoting posts yet… but something about Taffy asking what kind of people throw rotten fruit and diapers, then your post about it being rather uncivilized, then DB’s post about Israel being civilized, then your post about it being only his opinion and the whole monkey excrement thing… yadda yadda…

It made me pause and think about states or countries being more or less civilized.

The US is considered to be a civilized nation, yet offending someone (anyone regardless political or non-political stature) is probably as likely to get you shot here as getting excrement thrown at you somewhere else.
Or how about walking down the street in this country in gang areas, heck not even gang areas, just walk down the street in most of the smaller towns here during the evening or after the sun goes down and you are quite likely to get shot or seem someone getting shot.
How about going to the movies? (I know… low blow) or a political rally, or a concert, or a convenient store…..the list goes on.

Again, generalities here… but pot calling the kettle black certainly comes to mind and either way, I’d still rather be hit with excrement than a bullet. And I still think it wasn’t a smart move on Romney’s part. (But no, it won't be a deciding factor in how I vote.)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Country Boy said:


> Why are we even arguing about something as dubmb as this?! This isn't what's going to determine how you people vote is it?!


 
Unfortunately, it does. That's the sad part.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Unfortunately, it does. That's the sad part.


I don't think it is sad. Everyone has their own idea of what is important to them personally. For some that's the gay marriage or abortion issue - for other people it's different things. 

I can't vote in the US, so it's a moot point, however I would not vote for Romney because of the dog on the roof thing. Others might think that's silly, but it says something to me about the type of person he is. 
I also would not have voted for Clinton, if that had been possible, after the whole girl on her knees thing. 

A candidates moral compass is an important factor for me.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Faceman, Romneys overseas fiasco is not the sole reason I would never vote for him.
It does however remind me of how unfit he is to be the President.
Those people throwing dirty diapers they do so in the name of morality and religion. They are no better than the Taliban. They can and do justify their actions biblically.
Just as you are attempting to do with Ben & Jerry, Chick fil A, and President Clinton.
Romneys disgraceful visit to the most revered site in Judaism may be trivial to you.
To those of us that choose to live in a soceity that is tolerant of the views and religions of others it does.
My vote was decided way before Romney boarded his plane to show the world how unprepared he is. Shalom


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Country Boy, Faceman and I are not mad at each other.
We will not call each other names and if we ever met we would probably laugh not yell.
We are stating our opinions .
We both have very strong personalities and state our case assertively.
I know you are young.
I just want you to know that adults can disagree and still respect each other.
Faceman has earned my respect. Shalom


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## Country Boy (Jul 4, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> Country Boy, Faceman and I are not mad at each other.
> We will not call each other names and if we ever met we would probably laugh not yell.
> We are stating our opinions .
> We both have very strong personalities and state our case assertively.
> ...


A: I'm not that young. 
B: this is a pointless "spirited conversation" we all know Romney messed up. We need to move on and just forget about it.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I don't know that I would say it is pointless. Any opportunity to point out to db the error of his ways is worthwhile...it gives him something to contemplate while he is driving along Rue de Bubba to the Feed & Seed Boutique. Besides - I think we owe it to society to help those that are hopelessly lost find their way...it is the least we can do...:rofl:


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

There you go again with the Rue de Bubba. You got me Faceman.
There is a Feed and Seed by the way around here.
I am very bored at this hospital every day though visiting my daughter. 
Good news she is to be discharged soon. Shalom


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Country Boy said:


> this is a pointless "spirited conversation" we all know Romney messed up. We need to move on and just forget about it.


What is so wrong with "spirited conversations" as long as people want to participate and stay civil and don't offend each other feelings? We have such conversations all the time - in the end everyone has a right to speak own opinion even if others disagree. 

Personally I think those are Israel officials who messed up first, not Romney (although Romney should of do some research before going too).


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Lets all go to Chic-Fil-A and sing Cum-By-Yah.(sp)

Country Boy, you can come too!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

OH My Gosh, I just realized my really bad spelling error. I knew the spelling was wrong, just not that offensive.

No pun intended, Honestly!!!

We really need spell check on this thing!!!


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

UGh, don't even get me started on that. Hilarious typo!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Kitten Val I place more blame on the Israeli officials I assure you.
American Jews raise a lot of money for the State of Israel and our political power is important in setting US policy.
The Jewish lobby in the USA is very powerful.
There have been quite a few protest lodged against this intrusion.
In fact it was Israeli security that escorted him to the Wall.

taffy that misspelling still has me laughing. Shalom


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

dbarabians said:


> taffy that misspelling still has me laughing. Shalom


Me too!:rofl:


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Glad to hear the good news DB!


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