# Stud Fees, Breeding Fees, Shipping, Collection Costs



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Incentive programs would interest me. Of course the LFG.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

Conformation and pedigree being equal, I look for a show record and a get show record. I want a horse that is close enough to me that I can go see him in person and preferably meet some of his offspring, too. 

I prefer live cover, though I understand that is not something that is offered often anymore. When it comes to breeding a maiden mare, I will only do live cover and will sacrifice a show record, though not pedigree or conformation, to get it.

If I am doing shipped, I want a minimum of fees to deal with. I like the disposable containers since getting back to the FedEx store can be such a hassle.

Honestly, if all of this is equal, it will be the owner/stander that is my final basis. I want to know that they know their stuff and I can trust them with my mare. I don't want to hear them bad mouth another horse that I am considering (I've had that one). Most of all, I want to know that they are down to Earth, not blowing smoke up my dress and not out to make a buck in every tiny detail that they can squeeze one more penny out of.


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## emilienrocket (Jan 10, 2012)

MysterySparrow said:


> Conformation and pedigree being equal, I look for a show record and a get show record. I want a horse that is close enough to me that I can go see him in person and preferably meet some of his offspring, too.
> 
> I prefer live cover, though I understand that is not something that is offered often anymore. When it comes to breeding a maiden mare, I will only do live cover and will sacrifice a show record, though not pedigree or conformation, to get it.
> 
> ...


just a curiosity question, why do you prefer live cover with a maiden mare ??


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

emilienrocket said:


> just a curiosity question, why do you prefer live cover with a maiden mare ??


I am not a big fan of AI in general, though I can totally understand the safety, convenience and the fact that it opens the market to both stallion and mare owners who would normally not have a chance to cross. 

I feel that live cover more natural and the process of breeding triggers certain instincts that AI simply does not. Having only a few farms to witness over the course of about 6 years, I saw 4 maiden mares reject their foals. Three of them were AI. There was also a higher rate of other complications; one mare didn't give milk for several days after foaling, another had a particularly difficult birthing. 

While I am sure there could have been other factors involved, to me, this was enough evidence that I will simply live cover my maidens when I breed. Two vets I have spoken to agree with my theory, one going so far as to say that the physical process of breeding for a mare opens her up inside a bit and directly triggers hormone release.


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## emilienrocket (Jan 10, 2012)

ah i see, well that kinda scrares me lol, we are planning to breed my friends mare with a really nice stud but he only does ai and shes a maiden mare :/ and its going to be my foal so i wouldint want anything bad to happen to her mare. :S


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I prefer live cover or at the very least, fresh collection, non-extension and immediate AI for the maiden mare. I do offer some limited live cover here, though I prefer to collect and ship. If it's a mare I know and an owner I know, I will allow the mare to be brought here, especially if she's older and having a hard time conceiving. 

I've had 2 maiden mares that I did AI on, the first absolutely would not show heat to the stallion (I think she hated the stud farm she was at but that's a whole 'nuther story) and even with fresh collection & AI she nearly put the stud owner on the roof of his own barn. They messed with her hormones when she wouldn't show heat and I had specifically told them not to and after all that it took 2 more years to get her to even show heat to a stallion. I took her to a lovely fellow I know and everything was very relaxed and laid back and she still wasn't standing for him. She'd show but wouldn't stand. The vet was called to tranq her and as he was pulling up the driveway, she stood for the cover and caught. By the next time they checked she was out. The reason I wasn't using my boy at the time was because he wasn't old enough. 

This last year, I took the lessons she and her mother had taught me and brought her up to the stallion daily to just sniff noses and 'chat'. When she was ready, we covered her 1 time and the next day she was out. It's going to be very difficult if not impossible to AI this mare with shipped semen, her in time is so very short. Her mother was similar in that if you messed with her hormones she wouldn't catch, period. Dreamlet is very much like that. So.....no hormones or other manipulations when breeding. 

The 2nd mare, took but it took 3 tries and a bunch of hormones and so on. They gave her a full oxy regimen because she 'pooled' and wasn't clearing the fluid. So, again, bred this year at home, 1 cover and done, they're both due in less than a month. 

As a breeder, I do not prefer to collect and ship from other stallions, but fresh collected administered via AI is fine with me and we do that here. The extenders in shipped semen can cause inflammatory responses in some mares. And even though it's right up there in the conception rate, something like 96% vs 98%, when you have to have multiple shipments vs just taking the mare to the stallion and recovering her, the expenses mount up quickly. If you have to ship your mare across country and pay for mare care, I don't think you save anything, but if there's a really nice stallion locally, I think you and the breeder both win if you can have the mare serviced close to home.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

waresbear said:


> Incentive programs would interest me. Of course the LFG.


 
What kind of incentives would you look for? 

I learned by watching on the LFG thing. A friend of mine had a bad year and a foal from a top stallion was born with a hernia that needed surgical repair. The LFG was "stands and nurses" and that was it. She had the hernia repaired and the horse caught a nosocomial infection at the vet hospital and became septic and died, all within about 3 weeks. They wanted another stud fee to rebreed her mare. I thought that was OUTRAGEOUS, she worked her behind off for those 3 weeks trying to save that little guy, and of course, the vet expenses were horrendous. Needless to say, she didn't rebreed, has a very bad taste in her mouth about that stallion and talks bad about his owner every chance she gets. I saw that happen to several people with different stallions and made up my mind right then that I would offer a better LFG and be more flexible with the mare owners.


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

There are a lot of 'top dollar' fad name stallions - and I wouldn't breed to a single one of them about 90% of the time... Then there are a few lesser known, but just as beautiful stallions I would take into consideration that are $600 and less.

Applies to APHA, AQHA, AMHA, and AMHR.

But we stand our own miniature stallion, and didn't breed for this year because we need to promote him via his daughter this year.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I prefer live cover or at the very least, fresh collection, non-extension and immediate AI for the maiden mare. I do offer some limited live cover here, though I prefer to collect and ship. If it's a mare I know and an owner I know, I will allow the mare to be brought here, especially if she's older and having a hard time conceiving.
> 
> I've had 2 maiden mares that I did AI on, the first absolutely would not show heat to the stallion (I think she hated the stud farm she was at but that's a whole 'nuther story) and even with fresh collection & AI she nearly put the stud owner on the roof of his own barn. They messed with her hormones when she wouldn't show heat and I had specifically told them not to and after all that it took 2 more years to get her to even show heat to a stallion. I took her to a lovely fellow I know and everything was very relaxed and laid back and she still wasn't standing for him. She'd show but wouldn't stand. The vet was called to tranq her and as he was pulling up the driveway, she stood for the cover and caught. By the next time they checked she was out. The reason I wasn't using my boy at the time was because he wasn't old enough.
> 
> ...


Just curious on how you teach the stud for collection.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

cmarie said:


> Just curious on how you teach the stud for collection.


It's not hard really. We have a phantom that we call 'sally' and we take an in heat mare to stand next to her. We let the stallion woo the mare and when he's ready to mount we just redirect him to Sally, so he mounts there instead. Getting him used to the AV is a little trickier, might take a few tries till he gets used to it and until we get it just right. Once he's performed on the phantom a few times, we don't even need the mare to entice him.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> It's not hard really. We have a phantom that we call 'sally' and we take an in heat mare to stand next to her. We let the stallion woo the mare and when he's ready to mount we just redirect him to Sally, so he mounts there instead. Getting him used to the AV is a little trickier, might take a few tries till he gets used to it and until we get it just right. Once he's performed on the phantom a few times, we don't even need the mare to entice him.


Do you use any kind of scents on Sally, or heat in the AV?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

cmarie said:


> Do you use any kind of scents on Sally, or heat in the AV?


Nope, nothing on Sally, just a mare at her head if he needs a 'pin up girl' and we use warm water in the AV.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> It's not hard really. We have a phantom that we call 'sally' and we take an in heat mare to stand next to her. We let the stallion woo the mare and when he's ready to mount we just redirect him to Sally, so he mounts there instead. Getting him used to the AV is a little trickier, might take a few tries till he gets used to it and until we get it just right. Once he's performed on the phantom a few times, we don't even need the mare to entice him.


The old bait and switch huh, thats happened to me a few times after too many margaritas.
hey I think you should give me a trained big Arab, let me endurace race him a few years, sponor my rides, let me win a few races, and I can put a " Dreamcatcher Arabs" logo on my trailer, tshirts, hats, whole 9 yards. I think that would be great !


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I've thought about doing the shipped semen but I haven't found anyone around here that does it, I would love to learn.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Joe4d said:


> The old bait and switch huh, thats happened to me a few times after too many margaritas.
> hey I think you should give me a trained big Arab, let me endurace race him a few years, sponor my rides, let me win a few races, and I can put a " Dreamcatcher Arabs" logo on my trailer, tshirts, hats, whole 9 yards. I think that would be great !


LOL, have another few margaritas Joe! HAH! Bait and switch indeed.....

I actually have a couple of Arabs that would probably be excellent at endurance. Might even think of selling one or 2 of them at very reasonable prices, but give away or sponsor? So sorry, can't do that! Unfortunately most endurance folks don't want to pay much for their ponies and there's sure no return in the breeding end.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

cmarie said:


> I've thought about doing the shipped semen but I haven't found anyone around here that does it, I would love to learn.


 
Check with a couple of your local vets or see if you can find an Arabian breeding farm that will mentor you. I see you're in NV and I know there are several Arabian farms out there. 

The collection process isn't hard, and prepping the semen for shipment isn't difficult, but it's time consuming and actually kind of expensive. It's also the most dangerous time to handle the stallion, especially if he's not real experienced. We all wear helmets, especially the guy on the AV, because getting a hoof to the head by accident is a very real possibility when you're in that vulnerable position. The main thing we stress here is ground manners for the stallion, long before he ever gets near a mare or an AV. We don't handle outside stallions AT ALL because most people haven't trained their boys as strictly as we do ours. 

I used to work on a QH/Pinto farm and those stallions were PIGS due to lack of training. Everything was excused with, "Well, he's a stallion, what do you expect?" and my answer was always, "I expect him to behave or be cutlets." was always laughed at. They didn't think you COULD train a stallion. I didn't last real long there, wasn't willing to put up with hormonal teenagers on crack (their stallions) when I had 3 at home who KNEW they would die for even ONE of the things those stallions did every day. Wasn't willing to risk the injuries. I've never been bitten so many times, heck I'd NEVER been bitten EVER, until I went there.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I have hand bred my boys but I mostly pasture breed to my girls I don't do outside mares, my paint stallion is very well mannered and won't mount when in hand unless told to, but he's older, and not just used as a stud, he does ranch work also. My older Icelandic stud is very easy to handle and is a gentlemen, my young Icelandic stud is a knot-head at the teenage idiot stage and will end up gelded this spring and a childs mount next year.

The one vet that I know that does AI may have burned down on Thursday we had a wind swept wild fire that burn 3100 acres and destroyed several homes and business in the area, alot of livestock were killed in the fire also, it's very sad, there was no time to get them all out the fire moved so fast.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

cmarie said:


> I have hand bred my boys but I mostly pasture breed to my girls I don't do outside mares, my paint stallion is very well mannered and won't mount when in hand unless told to, but he's older, and not just used as a stud, he does ranch work also. My older Icelandic stud is very easy to handle and is a gentlemen, my young Icelandic stud is a knot-head at the teenage idiot stage and will end up gelded this spring and a childs mount next year.
> 
> The one vet that I know that does AI may have burned down on Thursday we had a wind swept wild fire that burn 3100 acres and destroyed several homes and business in the area, alot of livestock were killed in the fire also, it's very sad, there was no time to get them all out the fire moved so fast.


I read about the fires. Yes, there are some very well known and established Arabian farms there, Molly Stanley of Stanley Ranch is one. They breed Spanish Arabians and are very well thought of in the industry. Her home burned down but they saved the barns and outbuildings and all of the horses. I think I heard they've moved a mobile home onto the land until the house can be rebuilt. She would be someone who would probably cheerfully tell and show you everything you ever thought you wanted to know about transporting, collecting and AI.

I don't do any pasture breeding, but I have used my boys for in hand breeding. I started with the ground manners and "mother may I" when they were babies, so now it's just second nature. I also ride everyone who's old enough. I have a 5 year old who is shown in halter and ridden regularly, a 3 year old who will go under saddle this spring and a 2 year old that I want to show at Pinto Worlds in June. If he remains sweet until the judges look at him he'll stay intact until the show. If not, he can show as a gelding. None of them are difficult but the 2 year old is HUGE, comes from a 17+ hand father out of a 16.3 hand mother, so at 2 he's a moose. I don't tolerate SQUAT from him and so far that's been just fine. My theory is any good stallion will be an awesome gelding so they also know, "Snip Snip" means I'm getting tired of them and a talking to with the carrot stick as moderator is about to ensue.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm glad they got the horses out some weren't so lucky, they just started letting people back in the area last night and today, they just opened back up the freeway this morning. I'll see if I can contact her later this spring, after things settle down. Thanks for the info.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Stanley Ranch Spanish Arabians

Here's a link to their website and it has their contact info. Molly is a lovely older woman, and her daughter Lisa lives with them on the ranch. Really sweet folks and they know their stuff.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks, I do know where that ranch is.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

When looking at stallions, I like to look for under $1000 stud fee. LFG. Most LFG I've seen have been 30 days with a vet's authorization. I feel like a "re-breeding" fee is a crock of crap. To pay $1000 and then have the foal die, and then have to pay another $250 to $500 bucks for a re-breed? I think not. That will turn me away.

I would prefer live cover honestly. And Mare care should be under $10 a day. It doesn't cost $20 a day to keep a horse, and her being there for 10 days or so? That's another $200 bucks.

Booking fee's must be included in the stud fee that I pay. Most booking fee's I've seen are $250 bucks.

Shipping fee's. When we tried doing AI, we put a $250 deposit on the equitainer, we got about $230 of that back once it was returned. I think the first collection was free, and then anymore collection would have been an extra $150 bucks.

Then of course we had vet bills to come out and check my mares ovulation via ultrasound. I think we also gave her a shot to ovulate her. And then we dropped her off at the vets and she stayed for the weekend and was inseminated over the weekend. It was easier on my vet to have her there as opposed to driving to our place 2 days in a row.

Chilly never took, and I was out over $1000 bucks...Live and learn.


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

what is your stallions name in the SHN payback program?
(you can PM me if you want )

I go by show record and conformation,and pedigree mostly and price of course  I prefer the older 3 circle body style 

I like horses that have been successful and have successful get in whatever discipline I'm looking to use the foal for. I'm currently interested in Dressage so i like to see horses that have competed and won at a high level in dressage and that have Get that are doing well being shown.


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

Lol, ya. With my experience breeding to a top stud, the mare care was 15 dollars a day(she was there two months(900)), plus the cost of the breeding fee (2500), plus the cost of the drugs they administer(about 200), and she didn't take! This year when I take her back, I'm going to see where she is in her heat cycle, take her up there a couple days before ovulating, bring her back after shes been bred. The cost of mare care a day with a foal is going to be 20, which is way too expensive in my opinion! They are great people though!


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

Oh, I forgot to mention the dreaded rebreed fee is $600!


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

trainerunlimited said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention the dreaded rebreed fee is $600!


I'm sorry, but re-breed fees a load of crap. It is the stallion owner's duty to get your mare bred. That's why they stand him at stud. If they can't do it for any reason, whether it's the mare or the stud, I feel that the stud fee should be returned, minus the booking fee.

That's a lot of money to be out of...

Just my "in a perfect world" thinking...  But honestly, that's how I would be if I had a stallion. LFG or your money back...


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

Ya, I think the reasoning behind the stallion's booking fee for the stallion I am going to rebreed to is that they have free ultrasounding, so that kind of balances it out. The ranch "my" stud is at actually has its own vet on staff now, so I think the results will be a heck of a lot better! Hopefully......


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