# Bridle fit/bit placement



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Pics would help. Arabian or cob size bridles are smaller than horse bridles.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

I always adjust a bit so that it is touching the corner of the mouth but not applying enough pressure to make the skin wrinkle. Sometimes this involves using a hole punch to make the hole in the appropriate place!

I second trying a cob/arab sized bridle, as can't punch holes if the headstall is already all the way up.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

I see "proper bridle fitting" articles with pictures like this: 








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

This is one of our other horses with a bit in. It seems to fit him good 








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

From initial glace, seeing the wrinkles makes me suspect I would drop the bit a hole or half hole. But some horses have more wrinkly faces than others without bits, so putting my hand between the cheek pieces and the horse's face would also help with final adjustment.

(random example from the internet)


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Is this a driving bridle with blinders?Or blinkers, or winkers...whatever you want to call them!

A driving bridle with blinders should be adjusted on the top so that the eye is in the middle of the blinder. If it is too high, he can look over it, too high, he will look under it. 

The bits are adjusted a little more snugly than a riding bridle. This is done so that the horse does not shake its head and have the bridle come off.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> This is one of our other horses with a bit in. It seems to fit him good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This one looks way too high.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

phantomhorse13 said:


> From initial glace, seeing the wrinkles makes me suspect I would drop the bit a hole or half hole. But some horses have more wrinkly faces than others without bits, so putting my hand between the cheek pieces and the horse's face would also help with final adjustment.
> 
> (random example from the internet)


This one looks a tad too low.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

The second picture is NOT my horse! My phones on the fritz, the picture phantom posted is about where the bit sits in troubles mouth, maybe a tad lower.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

OP, can you post pictures of YOUR horse with a bridle on so we can see?

If you are using a leather bridle and it is too large, it is very easy to punch extra holes in it to make it smaller. 

If you are using nylon, you can make more holes too; it's just tougher because you'll have to heat a nail (or something) and burn a hole. 




WhattaTroublemaker said:


> This is one of our other horses with a bit in. It seems to fit him good
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would agree that this headstall/bit is adjusted too snugly. 

I probably have my bits looser for my horses than the "norm". I don't really like to see much of any wrinkles on their mouth. I feel it's up to the horse to "carry" that bit. I shouldn't have to have it crammed in their mouth. 

This was one of my horses and where I had his bit placed. 















phantomhorse13 said:


> (random example from the internet)



I would also agree that this particular picture has the bit _too low._


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

greentree said:


> Is this a driving bridle with blinders?Or blinkers, or winkers...whatever you want to call them!
> 
> A driving bridle with blinders should be adjusted on the top so that the eye is in the middle of the blinder. If it is too high, he can look over it, too high, he will look under it.
> 
> The bits are adjusted a little more snugly than a riding bridle. This is done so that the horse does not shake its head and have the bridle come off.


The blinders are in the right spot, and it has a throat latch, so no shaking off that bridle. Pretty much every bridle I try is way too big for him, I'll try a cob. He doesn't really need blinders, as I drove him in his halter, but I just happened to find the driving bridle that near fits him.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Beau, I'm also having trouble with him carrying the bit. Right now he likes to throw it around and mouth it, when working he will carry it fine, but when he's got nothing better to do he goes nuts with it. He also likes to stick his tongue out the side of his mouth when working.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

I'll get a picture with the bridle on him in a bit! :lol: pun not intended.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Beau, I'm also having trouble with him carrying the bit. Right now he likes to throw it around and mouth it, when working he will carry it fine, but *when he's got nothing better* to do he goes nuts with it. *He also likes to stick his tongue out the side of his mouth when working.*


Remind me how old your horse is and/or how much time under saddle he has had?

I really would not be overally concerned with the above parts I bolded and underlined. He's still learning. As long as he's going well when you are asking him to do something, he'll learn to calm down and "accept" it the rest of the time. Just sounds like it's a new concept to him and he's literally playing with it.

On another avenue, what TYPE of bit are you using right now? What have you tried? Sometimes certain bits can help a young one "stay busy" moreso than others.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

phantomhorse13 said:


> From initial glace, seeing the wrinkles makes me suspect I would drop the bit a hole or half hole. But some horses have more wrinkly faces than others without bits, so putting my hand between the cheek pieces and the horse's face would also help with final adjustment.
> 
> (random example from the internet)


This bit is too low. It needs raised.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

phantomhorse13 said:


> I always adjust a bit so that it is touching the corner of the mouth but not applying enough pressure to make the skin wrinkle. Sometimes this involves using a hole punch to make the hole in the appropriate place!
> 
> I second trying a cob/arab sized bridle, as can't punch holes if the headstall is already all the way up.



Ditto.
Any, although you are ground driving him, you are doing so as a foundation for ridiing, thus I would not use abit designed solely for a driving horse, like a solid bar snaffle


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

No, that picture of the horse you posted, Troublemaker, of your other horse, hardly fits okay, nor is it adjusted okay. I think you need help with basic bitting!
Throat latch also has to be loose enough, so that when a horse gives vertically, he can breathe!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Proper fit-no wrinkles, with bit just against corner of mouth. Bit neither too wide or too small. measure the mouth of your horse from one lip corner to the other. Just use a tape measure in the mouth.
Average stock horse requires a 5 inch mouth piece. You can but Arab or pony mouth snaffles with less width, like a 4 1/2. Unless he is a POA, I doubt his mouth is smaller, no matter how refined the head!
Make sure the throat latch is long enough, so that when the hrose is asked to give, it is not tight, and limits his breathing


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Smilie said:


> No, that picture of the horse you posted, Troublemaker, of your other horse, hardly fits okay, nor is it adjusted okay. I think you need help with basic bitting!
> Throat latch also has to be loose enough, so that when a horse gives vertically, he can breathe!


That is NOT my horse! My phone isn't copying and pasting right :s he takes a five inch mouth piece, I've measured.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

beau159 said:


> Remind me how old your horse is and/or how much time under saddle he has had?
> 
> I really would not be overally concerned with the above parts I bolded and underlined. He's still learning. As long as he's going well when you are asking him to do something, he'll learn to calm down and "accept" it the rest of the time. Just sounds like it's a new concept to him and he's literally playing with it.
> 
> On another avenue, what TYPE of bit are you using right now? What have you tried? Sometimes certain bits can help a young one "stay busy" moreso than others.


He's almost three, and I've been doing strictly bitless riding with him, and driving. I've tried: loose ring snaffle, Mullen mouth o ring, d ring three piece snaffle with copper. I'm using the Mullen mouth right now because it's the only thing paired with the bridle that will fit him.
Eta: I've had about four rides on him, bitless. We've got a good foundation in driving.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

THIS is my other horse, the bit here looks okay. I can't for the life of me find something that fits like this for trouble though. The throat latch is a bit tight here because he likes to shake his bridles off. Plus I was just taking pictures of this bridle to sell it.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

We know it is not your horse. you haven't posted a photo of him yet, have you? 

the example posted of the bay hrose, is both too low, but also too narrow for that horse. as a loose ring, it should be a bit wider (have a good 1/4 inch of bit sticking out on each side of his mouth). AND, in my opinion, too fat of a bit for that hrose.

this may not apply to your situation, but might be a bit of learning for you.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> We know it is not your horse. you haven't posted a photo of him yet, have you?
> 
> the example posted of the bay hrose, is both too low, but also too narrow for that horse. as a loose ring, it should be a bit wider (have a good 1/4 inch of bit sticking out on each side of his mouth). AND, in my opinion, too fat of a bit for that hrose.
> 
> this may not apply to your situation, but might be a bit of learning for you.


Sorry if I sounded a bit abrasive in my last post :lol: I knew that bit didn't look right on that animal, but the article posted with it said it was "proper fitting" :s the new picture I posted of my own bay is another horse of ours, he loves that bit, it's a thinner mouth with a copper link and sweet iron. He's a very nervous animal and it helps him relax.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Confused> I know you have not put up a picture of Trouble and his bride, but what is that 'our other horse' then, not that it matters.
Can'ts see a problem with finding a bit, if he has an average 5" mouth, as that is a standard western snaffle bit size. Easy enough to buy a headstall that fits, and punch in any holes required.
I would add a chin strap , to that head stall
One ear bridles are very bad, far as a horse being able to shake them off. Found myself a few times in the hitching rind, with a horse minus a bridle, because of that
For a good working bridle, western, I use one with a brow band, and no Chicago screws!
If you plan on ever showing a horse in a snaffle, western, there are legal limits , as to diameter of that bit, measured a specified distance from the butt
The article on four main reasons that a horse resists a bit, also supply some good info


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Smilie said:


> Confused> I know you have not put up a picture of Trouble and his bride, but what is that 'our other horse' then, not that it matters.
> Can'ts see a problem with finding a bit, if he has an average 5" mouth, as that is a standard western snaffle bit size. Easy enough to buy a headstall that fits, and punch in any holes required.
> I would add a chin strap , to that head stall
> One ear bridles are very bad, far as a horse being able to shake them off. Found myself a few times in the hitching rind, with a horse minus a bridle, because of that
> ...


My problem is that no matter what I try nothing looks like it fits him. Everything looks way awkward. Either too low, or too high, and sometimes the browband doesn't fit. I've taken pieces off of other bridles to accommodate, to no avail, I've punched holes galore, but I can't get it right.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Trouble, I think we cross posted. I had not seen the other bay, YOUR bay.

well, when you put up photos of the horse that is being hard to fit, then maybe we can see what the issue is.

one thing about this photo:










since you have put on a throat latch to a bridle that is not designed to be used with one, it is pulling the ear loop upward, and may bring it into contact with the hrose's ear. at the very least, perhaps loosen the throatlatch. most people have them on too tight. and most western bridles I've seen make them too short, too.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> Trouble, I think we cross posted. I had not seen the other bay, YOUR bay.
> 
> well, when you put up photos of the horse that is being hard to fit, then maybe we can see what the issue is.
> 
> ...


Yeah this bridles being sold, it was trial and error with the one ears. I'm going to stick with my guns and keep using bridles with a browband. I used him as an example for proper bit placement, to compare when I get a picture of trouble up. I'm heading to the barn tomorrow. And I second the short throat latches! Troubles minimum throat latch length is 83cm, and my last bridle had a 70cm throat latch :s


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

one of theses days, you can get a custom made one. Trouble is a handsome horse. get one made for HIM. our member Nutty Saddler could make you a nice one.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

That would be an absolutely wonderful thing, I'll have to look into nutty saddler! I don't have the funds for a custom bridle right now, so that begs the question: do I keep working him bitless in a halter or do I try to find a mediocre fit and work him like that?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

have you tried English bridles? they are often more adjustable. you put any bit on it you want.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Try this headstall. Yes its nylon but the throatlatch is huge, it has a very nice browband, and it fits everything from my dainty Arab to my stocky QH's and my friend's draft cross. And its cheap! 

Jeffers Equine : Western Nylon Horse Headstall with Nickel Plated Die Cast Hardware | Jeffers Pet


Ignore the chestnut colt's pic. That was his first time with a bit and he was not a happy boy.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Rain Shadow said:


> Try this headstall. Yes its nylon but the throatlatch is huge, it has a very nice browband, and it fits everything from my dainty Arab to my stocky QH's and my friend's draft cross. And its cheap!
> 
> Jeffers Equine : Western Nylon Horse Headstall with Nickel Plated Die Cast Hardware | Jeffers Pet
> 
> ...


I'm definitely up for nylon! And I have one of those pictures too :lol: troubles first time with a bit.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I never, never tie their mouth shut like that, with a cavasson!
No wonder he is not happy! If you want to train a western horse, that are expected to work with a quiet relaxed mouth, no cavasson allowed, then right from the beginning, don't used one. When a horse relaxes, he learns to work with a quiet and closed mouth on his own
I would let that headstall out, and get that brow band away from his ears.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Smilie said:


> I never, never tie their mouth shut like that, with a cavasson!
> No wonder he is not happy! If you want to train a western horse, that are expected to work with a quiet relaxed mouth, no cavasson allowed, then right from the beginning, don't used one. When a horse relaxes, he learns to work with a quiet and closed mouth on his own
> I would let that headstall out, and get that brow band away from his ears.


Wait, what cavesson? This picture was taken with a halter on, the bridle over the halter, when I was trying to find a hole that fit him. Back then he would mouth it enough that I couldn't tell where it sat in the mouth. He's better at carrying a bit now. I can't seem to find a browband that fits either, that's one of the bridle fitting woes I'm facing.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

And as you can see, the bridle I used was way too big, making it impossible to slide the browband down any further. I ended up taking the browband completely off to fit it better.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Billy Cook makes some nice head stalls. The rawhide ties prevent any screw failure.
I don't like snaps to attach reins to a bit. They can encourage a horse to have an active head
While I use double stitched nylon halters, all my bridle headstalls are leather

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cook/headstall-leather-tie-ends.html

This one has buckles on both sides, so lots of room for adjustment

Billy Cook-Cowboy Browband Headstall â€“ Irvines


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Wait, what cavesson? This picture was taken with a halter on, the bridle over the halter, when I was trying to find a hole that fit him. Back then he would mouth it enough that I couldn't tell where it sat in the mouth. He's better at carrying a bit now. I can't seem to find a browband that fits either, that's one of the bridle fitting woes I'm facing.


Oh, well that leather halter then sure fits tight!


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Smilie said:


> Oh, well that leather halter then sure fits tight!


It's not as tight as it looks, I can fit four fingers under the nose, he had his winter fuzzies and I think it made it look tight.


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## ThunderingHooves (Aug 10, 2013)

Personally when I bit up a horse I like the bit to just touch the edge of the lip, but not put any pressure. Even a tad bit of space between the bit and their lip is ok in my opinion.

Here is a picture that shows how I personally like it. 








As for finding a bridle to fit have you tried a headstall with one buckle? I find that they tend to be easier to fit. Jeffers has a couple. I haven't tried the Jeffers brand, but I've never had a bad product that was their brand and at $10 it wouldn't break the bank. 
Jeffers Leather Browband Headstall, Havana | Jeffers Pet
There is also one made by Belin Leather that isn't too expensive.
Jeffers Equine : Heavy Oiled Browband Horse Headstall with Butter-Soft Leather | Jeffers Pet


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I always put the bit where I think it might go, then open up the horse's mouth. I rattle the bit around to see if it contacts any of the horse's teeth when it is in action. Horses have very different dentition inside and sometimes if a bit is too low it will touch the canines. Some horses also have very thick lips so having a wrinkle in their mouth can be uncomfortable, and you don't want a loose ring to be tight enough to catch the skin and pinch it. Once you have the bridle adjusted, pull on the rein and see if it makes the cheek piece move too far from the horse's face (too loose), or if it makes the bit move too much. Rather than look at a picture, I think it's better to feel and see in person.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


>


I would try to find a *plain leather *headstall, with no silver or anything fancy on it. Yes, you've got this headstall a little too tight, but even if you let it down, I wonder if it would still be too tight on his ears (the browband). When you've got fancy conchos and such, it sometimes can limit how much you can adjust. 

It may be how he is standing very akwardly in this picture, but it gives the appearance that your bit is too narrow. Would be nice to see a picture where he is standing quietly, and without the halter underneath. Leaving the halter on underneath WILL affect how the headstall fits.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

beau159 said:


> I would try to find a *plain leather *headstall, with no silver or anything fancy on it. Yes, you've got this headstall a little too tight, but even if you let it down, I wonder if it would still be too tight on his ears (the browband). When you've got fancy conchos and such, it sometimes can limit how much you can adjust.
> 
> It may be how he is standing very akwardly in this picture, but it gives the appearance that your bit is too narrow. Would be nice to see a picture where he is standing quietly, and without the halter underneath. Leaving the halter on underneath WILL affect how the headstall fits.


I'm using whatever bridles we have on hand at the moment, I'm on hard times and I can't afford another right now. But yes, the brow band on this bridle had to be taken off because it was too small. I'm very sick right now so I'll have to get a photo tomorrow. I don't know how quiet of a picture I can get, he will not stand with the bit still. Working yes, but standing to his own devices he's a little hellion with it.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

For abit to touch the canines, it would need to be very very low in the mouth, and if a bit is adjusted so it is just against the corner of the horse;s mouth, no wrinkles, sorry, but I don't see a canine problem, and i have ridden many geldings, plus stallions. Mares don't have canines
While wolf teeth can interfere with the bit, I can't see how canines could, besides which, they do not erupt until age 4 or so on male horses


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Bottom line, if you can't get a head stallo o fit at the moment, which really should not be that difficult, I would forget about bitting him at the moment=period
Even that halter does not fit acting more like a cavesson, and interfering with the bit
Save up, and do it right. I really, really do not think your horse is that difficult to fit, using good equipment!
I have ridden and started horses from 14.1hh to 16.3hh, and fitting them with a good snaffle bridle was never an issue
You do not wish to create bad habits, due to improper fit, so best not to go there, until you can by na headstall that fits. I am pretty sure there are tons out there, having bought many , many headstalls over the years, and having ridden many different horses!


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Another option is a custom bridle. There is a woman on FB who makes custom paracord tack, at a decent price. this way you can get it made to his measurements. I linked her Etsy 

https://www.etsy.com/shop/TiffanysBraidedTack?section_id=11901586&ref=shopsection_leftnav_4#


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Smilie said:


> Bottom line, if you can't get a head stallo o fit at the moment, which really should not be that difficult, I would forget about bitting him at the moment=period
> Even that halter does not fit acting more like a cavesson, and interfering with the bit
> Save up, and do it right. I really, really do not think your horse is that difficult to fit, using good equipment!
> I have ridden and started horses from 14.1hh to 16.3hh, and fitting them with a good snaffle bridle was never an issue
> You do not wish to create bad habits, due to improper fit, so best not to go there, until you can by na headstall that fits. I am pretty sure there are tons out there, having bought many , many headstalls over the years, and having ridden many different horses!



I actually faced this with Rebel, a Mustang/Paint colt. For halters he needed a large around his throat latch area, but a small around his muzzle. It made him nearly impossible to find a nylon halter with. I finally found a Mustang halter that fit him, and he is still wearing it with his new owner because he's such a pest to fit. 

Trouble appears to have a similar head shape, so I'm not surprised.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Rain Shadow said:


> I actually faced this with Rebel, a Mustang/Paint colt. For halters he needed a large around his throat latch area, but a small around his muzzle. It made him nearly impossible to find a nylon halter with. I finally found a Mustang halter that fit him, and he is still wearing it with his new owner because he's such a pest to fit.
> 
> Trouble appears to have a similar head shape, so I'm not surprised.


This is why I use a leather halter! Nylon halters just don't fit right. I can adjust the noseband on a leather one. I'm putting an order in right now for a fully adjustable leather bridle.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Bumping up to by pass spam


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