# palominos and flaxen chestnuts



## GreyRay

A Palomino has a golden coat, and a Chestnut has a red coat. Not all Chestnuts have a flaxen mane and tail.
Thats about as detailed as I can get with coat colors, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poseidon

Palomino









Chestnut with Flaxen mane and tail









Sometimes they are hard to distinguish, but palominos have a very goldeny shimmer to them in the sun. If that helps. Hahah.


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## GCSM16

i always get them mixed up....lol I'd have called both of those palominos. Genetics is not my strong point


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## Poseidon

Genetically, a palomino is a sorrel/chestnut is one cream dilute. A chestnut with a flaxen mane and tail is just a regular chestnut/sorrel with the flaxen gene, which is just a modifier. 

If that makes more sense.


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## Chiilaa

To tell the difference you need a sunny day. A palomino will have a golden shine on their coat. A chestnut will have a bronze or copper shine.

You can also tell by looking at their breeding if you know it. Sometimes it can be mixed up though, with people mistaking one colour for another.


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## equiniphile

Flaxen chestnuts often have a fake dorsal stripe called countershading, like my mini Lulu.


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## CharliGirl

My gelding Scotch had a sorrel roan father and a palomino mother. I believe he is a Sorrel Roan with a flaxen mane and tail. Quite the colorful guy, especially with all of his chrome! 










It's kinda hard to see his roan markings here. His mane and tail get a lot lighter than this in the summer (this is an older picture).


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## Chiilaa

Yup he is a chestnut. You can kind of see the shine that I am talking about, with the orangey-copper tones to his glinting coat.


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## Chiilaa

Don't know about the roan though, would have to see side on shots


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## CharliGirl

Some roaning around his eye:









Neck and throatlatch:









Side shot (you can see it especially in his hip area):








Please ignore the dangerous lean-to...it has been upgraded since this picture was taken!

You can kinda see it on his hindquarters here:









His roaning is much easier to see in person. He is nowhere near as "roany" as his father, Skip N Easy, though!


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## Quixotic

True roan doesn't affect the face like that, the roaning would be restricted to the rest of his body, but his head would remain dark. His sire looks like a chestnut Sabino to me, which gives him his tall stockings, white face, & "roaning", but I don't think he is a true roan.


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## Chiilaa

Yup Quixotic is right on that one. Roan doesn't affect the face. I am also going to go with sabino, but I could be wrong. 

He definitely isn't a roan though, but still gorgeous.


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## CharliGirl

If Scotch isn't a roan, why does he have white hairs everywhere? Is a sabino a type of paint marking? I've never heard of sabino before...


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## smrobs

Chiilaa said:


> A palomino will have a golden shine on their coat. A chestnut will have a bronze or copper shine.


This. A palomino will have more of a yellowish tint, even under heavy soot coloring whereas a chestnut will range from an orangey to a reddish or copper color.

See this horse? Even with the darker sooty coloring, you can still see the golden base in the sun.









Whereas this horse, which could easily be mistaken for a darker palomino, actually has more of a copper hue to her coat.


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## speedy da fish

CharliGirl, i dont think he is roan. i think white hairs on the coat like that are called ticking? i may be wrong, its something like that! its quite common on red horses.


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## TheLastUnicorn

CharliGirl said:


> If Scotch isn't a roan, why does he have white hairs everywhere? Is a sabino a type of paint marking? I've never heard of sabino before...


Sabino is an Overo PINTO pattern. (Paint is a breed... Pinto is the coloration) It can occur within any breed, though some definitely show a stronger tendancy of it. In it most minimal form you may only see occasional white hairs on the body - or a star/sock.... in it's most extreme form you'll have a white horse. 

Scotch looks like a pretty typical Sabino to me, between his white markings and roaning over the whole body... his sire is one as well... possibly one or both of them also carry a gene called Rabicano - which is very similar, though usually displays a "**** tail" (a more heavily roaned stripe above the tail)

True Roan is a totally separate gene, and it requires at least one parent to carry the gene, and pass it on. In true roans only their body will get white hairs - their head, legs, mane and tail stay solid. The roaning will change seasonally (the horse will appear more roan during some seasons and more solid during others)


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## Soul

CharliGirl said:


> Some roaning around his eye:
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> Neck and throatlatch:
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> Side shot (you can see it especially in his hip area):
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> Please ignore the dangerous lean-to...it has been upgraded since this picture was taken!
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> You can kinda see it on his hindquarters here:
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> His roaning is much easier to see in person. He is nowhere near as "roany" as his father, Skip N Easy, though!


You have a very pretty horse.


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## Soul

Sorry to double post, but is there a coloring called a chocolate palomino? I test rode a barrel horse named badger. The owners said he was a chocolate palomino. Is there even such a coloring called a chocolate palomino?


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## TheLastUnicorn

Yes... and no. LOL

It's a term used to describe a very dark palomino. 

Chestnut can have a wide range of darkness to the coat (countershading)... Palomino's are chesnuts with a cream gene added... so they too can have a wide variety of countershading to their coat... some being so pale they're nearly cream and others being so dark they actually appear black.


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## smrobs

Yes, a chocolate palomino is one that has a very heavy sooty factor, similar to the first horse that I posted in post #15. Here are a couple more examples of chocolate palominos.


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## MacabreMikolaj

As a note, most typically when people say "chocolate palomino" they are incorrectly referring to black silver/silver dapple. This is an example of a black silver which is as far from a palomino as you can get - a palomino is a chestnut with a cream gene, a black silver is a black with a silver gene (duh, LOL).



















And just for fun, here's a horse that confuses EVERYBODY! :lol: It is extremely rare, to EVER see a flaxen chestnut this extreme. I don't think I've found an example yet that can compare to him.

This is Fire An Ice, a registered Arabian stallion who is, YES, flaxen chestnut despite the stupidity of the Palomino Registry for accepting him!










This picture MUCH better shows that he is still clearly chestnut - something his owners seem FINALLY willing to admit after years of trying to convince people he's a palomino!


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## Chiilaa

He is a gorgeous example of it MM. His owners, however, well... 

Palomino can only come from a cream parent. Cream can't be carried, it has to be displayed. Arabians don't have cream. *sigh* People make me mad sometimes.


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## Pony10girl

thanks guys some beautiful horse <3


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## Hunter65

MacabreMikolaj said:


> As a note, most typically when people say "chocolate palomino" they are incorrectly referring to black silver/silver dapple. This is an example of a black silver which is as far from a palomino as you can get - a palomino is a chestnut with a cream gene, a black silver is a black with a silver gene (duh, LOL).
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> And just for fun, here's a horse that confuses EVERYBODY! :lol: It is extremely rare, to EVER see a flaxen chestnut this extreme. I don't think I've found an example yet that can compare to him.
> 
> This is Fire An Ice, a registered Arabian stallion who is, YES, flaxen chestnut despite the stupidity of the Palomino Registry for accepting him!
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> This picture MUCH better shows that he is still clearly chestnut - something his owners seem FINALLY willing to admit after years of trying to convince people he's a palomino!



When I was young we used to ride a horse that looked exactly like that. He was Arabian too, beautiful flaxen chestnut. ahhhh


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## MacabreMikolaj

Chiilaa said:


> He is a gorgeous example of it MM. His owners, however, well...
> 
> Palomino can only come from a cream parent. Cream can't be carried, it has to be displayed. Arabians don't have cream. *sigh* People make me mad sometimes.


I am very much of the opinion they had that first photo I posted doctored. In the second one, you can see the tiny replica photo and it's funny how he actually looks chestnut in that one, with none of the brilliant golden shine you see in that first one. That photo is the ONLY one that exists of him looking even remotely palomino - every other photo, he's blatantly chestnut to the trained eye.


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## NdAppy

Oh I agree MM the picture was doctored. You can see even in the background that the colors are off so to speak. Which is really, really sad imo that they felt the need to do that!


I don't have anything other to add to this thread. Everyone pretty much covered it! 

Oh and on the Black silvers, they are most often referred to as chocolates in the Rocky Mountain Horses.


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## CheyAut

Chiilaa said:


> He is a gorgeous example of it MM. His owners, however, well...
> 
> Palomino can only come from a cream parent. Cream can't be carried, it has to be displayed. Arabians don't have cream. *sigh* People make me mad sometimes.


It doesn't necessarily always show on blacks though.


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## Chiilaa

CheyAut said:


> It doesn't necessarily always show on blacks though.


This is true. And some buckies can look like bays. And lots of people (even very experienced breeders) don't recognise smokey black as a seperate colour, but instead see it as dark brown or even sometimes as dark liver chestnut or a fading black. 

All this suggests to me, if there is a history of possible cream - test test test!


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## luvs2ride1979

CharliGirl said:


> His roaning is much easier to see in person. He is nowhere near as "roany" as his father, Skip N Easy, though!


Both of those horses are Sabino Roan, not "true" roan or traditional roan. You can see the Sabino gene in their socks and blazes. Sabino isn't always accompanied by roaning, but it is in these two guys ;-).


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## luvs2ride1979

We have two chestnut/flaxens at my barn (of 8 horses, the odds! lol). One is a haflinger and one is a quarter horse.

QH:










His winter coat is coming in darker and more red. 









Haflingers have an extra gene though, the "pangre" gene, making them have lighter coloring on the muzzle, lower legs, and behind the elbow/hip area. They are genetically chestnut/flaxen though, NO creme in their gene pool (no black either, lol). All purebred Haflingers will be some shade of chestnut/flaxen. This guy does not have any white socks. His feet are all dark and the skin is dark.

Summer coat:









Early winter coat:









My daughter (riding) is the Haflinger's owner. The Quarter Horse is owned by a boarder, but we use him for lessons.


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## QOS

I just love a sorrel with a flaxen mane and tail! They are GORGEOUS!


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## NdAppy

Meant to post these earlier.

My Flaxen Sorrel mini mare and her Silver Bay colt. I am showing the silver bay in this thread as he is most often called (and wrongly called) a flaxen sorrel.

Blossom -

































Pistol -



































And then one of them together -


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## Chele11

CharlieGirl - he is beautiful !


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## Pony10girl

awww there so cute


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## Sailor Kenshin

MacabreMikolaj said:


> As a note, most typically when people say "chocolate palomino" they are incorrectly referring to black silver/silver dapple. This is an example of a black silver which is as far from a palomino as you can get - a palomino is a chestnut with a cream gene, a black silver is a black with a silver gene (duh, LOL).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And just for fun, here's a horse that confuses EVERYBODY! :lol: It is extremely rare, to EVER see a flaxen chestnut this extreme. I don't think I've found an example yet that can compare to him.
> 
> This is Fire An Ice, a registered Arabian stallion who is, YES, flaxen chestnut despite the stupidity of the Palomino Registry for accepting him!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This picture MUCH better shows that he is still clearly chestnut - something his owners seem FINALLY willing to admit after years of trying to convince people he's a palomino!


 
These horses are so gorgeous I think my heart just stopped.

So even if it's a liver flaxen, you'll see 'copper,' whereas a palomino that dark will show 'gold?'


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## CharliGirl

Chele11 said:


> CharlieGirl - he is beautiful !


Thank you!


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## Pony10girl

thanks guys


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## loveBradforever

here are some good looking ones i found.!


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## Eastowest

_>>>And lots of people (even very experienced breeders) don't recognise smokey black as a seperate colour, but instead see it as dark brown or even sometimes as dark liver chestnut or a fading black. 
_
Some smokey blacks (a black with one copy of cream) do not look any different than a black without cream. No visual indication of the cream at all, just a black horse.


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## hflmusicislife

Flaxen chestnuts and Palominos can look exactly alike. Sometimes the only way to tell the difference is through their DNA. Palominos have one creme dilution gene, where as chestnuts, even those with lighter manes and tails, don't. For example, Haflingers tend to look Palomino. However, a true Haflinger cannot be Palomino; they are all flaxen chestnut. So there's my input  (I did hours of research on horses colors, mainly the creme dilutes, ie palomino, cremello, perlino, smokey cream/black...)


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## Chiilaa

hflmusicislife said:


> Flaxen chestnuts and Palominos can look exactly alike. Sometimes the only way to tell the difference is through their DNA. Palominos have one creme dilution gene, where as chestnuts, even those with lighter manes and tails, don't. For example, Haflingers tend to look Palomino. However, a true Haflinger cannot be Palomino; they are all flaxen chestnut. So there's my input  (I did hours of research on horses colors, mainly the creme dilutes, ie palomino, cremello, perlino, smokey cream/black...)


You *can* tell the difference between palomino and chestnut visually if you know what you are looking for. You know that sheen that horses get in certain lights? Kind of glitters and looks real pretty? In a palomino, that will have a definite golden cast to it. In a chestnut, it will have a bronze or even red tone.


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## hflmusicislife

Chiilaa said:


> You *can* tell the difference between palomino and chestnut visually if you know what you are looking for. You know that sheen that horses get in certain lights? Kind of glitters and looks real pretty? In a palomino, that will have a definite golden cast to it. In a chestnut, it will have a bronze or even red tone.


Not necessarily. It may be possible depending on their coat at the time, but especially during the winter it's impossible. My mare is an isabella palomino (extremely light) and in the winter unless you've seen her during the summer she looks grey (like the white color that's technically called grey) It's often similar with flaxen chestnuts. I had a flaxen Haflinger who I didn't even know wasn't a pally until after I sold her. Most of the time you can tell, but not _always. _

Oh, by the way, I love your signature


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