# 2005 APHA Mare



## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

A somehwhat local Paint breeder has decided not to breed any longer and has several horses for sale. All registered APHA, Ace's April Dawn is a 2005 15.1hh mare. Had a foal in 2018 and has recently been started back under saddle.

Opinions on conformation and bloodlines would be greatly appreciated! Going to see her next week as well as one of her other horses as well. TIAhttps://www.allbreedpedigree.com/aces+april+dawn


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Oh fun!!! I like her, a nice stocky well-built horse. Don't recognize much on her pedigree, though I like Sonny. And I mean, what a gorgeous horse, just apart from technicalities. That rich colour, and her pretty face <3


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I like her. I would want to know her 5 panel status, specifically for PSSM1. She's Hancock bred on her tail female line, so I'd want to know about a potentially "cold back".


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I like her. I would want to know her 5 panel status, specifically for PSSM1. She's Hancock bred on her tail female line, so I'd want to know about a potentially "cold back".


5 Panel N/N E/e A.a LWO/n

As far as her color test results, what does E/e A/a mean exactly? I understand she carries a gene for LWO. Just curious......and thank you! Will be sure to check her over thoroughly!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

For a 5 panel it should read (not sure of order - don't have results in front of me) P1 for PSSM1, Hrd for Herda, Gb for GBED, H for HYPP and MH for MH. If they have a copy then it shows as the designated short form. N means no copy.


The Ee would be Extension E is for the dominant black and e is for the recessive chestnut. She carries one of each instead of being homozygous (two copies) for either. If bred to a horse that carries e then she could have a red baby. The Aa is for agouti A is for the dominant (a black based horse would have black restricted to mane and tail) and a is for the recessive ( no restriction). This horse would carry one of each and could pass either to a baby.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> For a 5 panel it should read (not sure of order - don't have results in front of me) P1 for PSSM1, Hrd for Herda, Gb for GBED, H for HYPP and MH for MH. If they have a copy then it shows as the designated short form. N means no copy.
> 
> 
> The Ee would be Extension E is for the dominant black and e is for the recessive chestnut. She carries one of each instead of being homozygous (two copies) for either. If bred to a horse that carries e then she could have a red baby. The Aa is for agouti A is for the dominant (a black based horse would have black restricted to mane and tail) and a is for the recessive ( no restriction). This horse would carry one of each and could pass either to a baby.


Thank you for explaining that to me! I know its been discussed often on here but never quite understood it, makes a bit more sense now, so thank you! I will find out! Id def like to know as much as I can!


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I would take her home. No major flaws in those pictures! Nice mare!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I like her build a lot. Agree with making sure she has a clear 5 panel.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

csimkunas6 said:


> 5 Panel N/N E/e A.a LWO/n
> 
> As far as her color test results, what does E/e A/a mean exactly? I understand she carries a gene for LWO. Just curious......and thank you! Will be sure to check her over thoroughly!


OK, now here's where the 'suspicious horse trader' in me pops out. Did they just tell you she's clear or did they give you a copy of the test results? I would ask to see a print out of her test results, since you're going to go see her anyhow. QtrBel explained the Ee/Aa/Lwo/n thing real well. All it means is to make sure the stallion you breed her to is NOT a carrier of LWO, so N/N for that too or some studs advertise as 6 panel clear. If you ever breed her just make sure he's not carrying, a foal born of 2 LWO parents has a 25% chance of being LWO/LWO and that results in a dead foal. Dead because it affects the development of the digestive tract and the foal is born with it incomplete and is unable to process food and will be euthanized or dead (agonizing when not PTS) within about 72 hrs. Not worth the gamble, IMO.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

4horses said:


> I would take her home. No major flaws in those pictures! Nice mare!


I couldnt see anything major either, which is why I posted here! As Im liable to miss things of course 



JCnGrace said:


> I like her build a lot. Agree with making sure she has a clear 5 panel.


Good deal! Thank you!



Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> OK, now here's where the 'suspicious horse trader' in me pops out. Did they just tell you she's clear or did they give you a copy of the test results? I would ask to see a print out of her test results, since you're going to go see her anyhow. QtrBel explained the Ee/Aa/Lwo/n thing real well. All it means is to make sure the stallion you breed her to is NOT a carrier of LWO, so N/N for that too or some studs advertise as 6 panel clear. If you ever breed her just make sure he's not carrying, a foal born of 2 LWO parents has a 25% chance of being LWO/LWO and that results in a dead foal. Dead because it affects the development of the digestive tract and the foal is born with it incomplete and is unable to process food and will be euthanized or dead (agonizing when not PTS) within about 72 hrs. Not worth the gamble, IMO.


Its just listed in her ad....but thanks for th tip! Will def ask for a print out of her results, as with always purchasing a gelding Ive never had to worry, which granted I may never breed but if the right stallion came along Id def want to make sure there is no chance of LWO! Ive known a bit about it for some time but have been updating my knowledge of it quite a bit more since looking at this mare. Thank you DA!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Nice mare. If you like her and she suits your purpose, I'd pick her up. Not a fan of the bald face, but the black skin around her eyes will help a lot.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Csimkunas6, you're welcome. And btw, I'm a sucker for bald faces, all you have to do is look in my barn to see that. LOL! So, she's got my vote if everything else shapes up good.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Csimkunas6, you're welcome. And btw, I'm a sucker for bald faces, all you have to do is look in my barn to see that. LOL! So, she's got my vote if everything else shapes up good.


LOL.....I def am obviously although she was my second choice mare, the one I liked over this one was my least favorite color and solid to add to it, but she was sold before...I found this one and really like what Ive been able to see from the pics. Im going to see this mare Wed May 8th, its a 2.5hr drive one way but looking forward to it nonetheless!


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

csimkunas6 said:


> LOL.....I def am obviously although she was my second choice mare, the one I liked over this one was my least favorite color and solid to add to it, but she was sold before...I found this one and really like what Ive been able to see from the pics. Im going to see this mare Wed May 8th, its a 2.5hr drive one way but looking forward to it nonetheless!


Well, Heidi wasn't my first choice either - a filly, slightly older, called Sonny was the one I really fell for just off of pictures and what-not. She sold before I went out to have a look, and I was very disappointed, but I met Heidi. I still think Sonny woulda been awesome, but you know how much I love Heidi so second-choices can very well work out  Keep us posted on how it goes!!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

csimkunas6 said:


> LOL.....I def am obviously although she was my second choice mare, the one I liked over this one was my least favorite color and solid to add to it, but she was sold before...I found this one and really like what Ive been able to see from the pics. Im going to see this mare Wed May 8th, its a 2.5hr drive one way but looking forward to it nonetheless!


Oh that can be a real fun road trip! Got a friend or 2 that can go along and make it a day out for all of you?


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

JoBlueQuarter said:


> Well, Heidi wasn't my first choice either - a filly, slightly older, called Sonny was the one I really fell for just off of pictures and what-not. She sold before I went out to have a look, and I was very disappointed, but I met Heidi. I still think Sonny woulda been awesome, but you know how much I love Heidi so second-choices can very well work out  Keep us posted on how it goes!!


Im not too upset, I love this horse's markings, really impressed with what I can see of her conformation, and from what the owner says of her temperament, she's a real friendly, sweet mare. And considering I wasnt going to get another horse lol, I believe everything happens for a reason so who knows, might be some red flags that I just cant deal with, we'll see!



Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Oh that can be a real fun road trip! Got a friend or 2 that can go along and make it a day out for all of you?


Oh yeah! Not any horse friends unfortunately, but my daughter is coming along and she's probably more excited than I am lol


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

csimkunas6 said:


> Oh yeah! Not any horse friends unfortunately, but my daughter is coming along and she's probably more excited than I am lol


Cool, mother daughter bonding time. A nice day out, lunch and probably dinner, just you and her and horses too. Perfect day!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Cool, mother daughter bonding time. A nice day out, lunch and probably dinner, just you and her and horses too. Perfect day!


Should be a fun day for sure! She's very excited as well, is trying to tell me itll be her new horse lol. She has quite a few for sale, regardless Ill only be buying one but may take a look at a few others she has


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

csimkunas6 said:


> Should be a fun day for sure! She's very excited as well, is trying to tell me itll be her new horse lol. She has quite a few for sale, regardless Ill only be buying one but may take a look at a few others she has


Might as well, you're gonna drive that far, have a good look to be sure you don't miss anything.


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

I'd look for one with no Hancock in her if you are going to be out there anyway. From that mare's pedigree it looks like they were breeding for color and possibly conformation but mostly color. She looks nice, but I would be wary about any breeding program that has horses in it with that many generations of horses who haven't done much of anything to improve the breed in any way, and were bred to Hancock lines for color. AQHA sees a lot of that with people breeding to Blue Valentine lines to try and get color.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

AndyTheCornbread said:


> I'd look for one with no Hancock in her if you are going to be out there anyway. From that mare's pedigree it looks like they were breeding for color and possibly conformation but mostly color. She looks nice, but I would be wary about any breeding program that has horses in it with that many generations of horses who haven't done much of anything to improve the breed in any way, and were bred to Hancock lines for color. AQHA sees a lot of that with people breeding to Blue Valentine lines to try and get color.


Ive noticed that a bit....Ive see quite a lot of studs with the roan coloring, Im not a fan of roans but a good horse is never a bad color. If I end up buying this mare, we'll actually be riding her, if I decide to breed her in a few years I highly doubt Ill even look at anything colored as I could care less about color/markings to be 100% honest. She's just a mare that came up for sale on a page I follow and I liked the look of her. We'll see in a week if I still like her in person.

Thanks for your input! Means more than you know with you being so nearby!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

There's a little Hancock in her, but not a whole lot. I don't mind a little in a horse, especially when crossed on working lines. Double-bred Hancocks tend to have a propensity to buck, but the line is also known for intelligence, soundness, and work ethic-- something lacking in some of the show lines. Hancock/Blue Valentine and Two Eyed Jack are two lines popular in Montana, Wyoming, Nebraska, Nevada, etc. due to their soundness and toughness and ability to do well in bad weather with minimal care, and hold up to a lot of work in big country. You'd be hard-pressed to find a ranch that doesn't have some in their breeding program. Sometimes it's for color, but usually it's because the horse was a decent individual and thrived with minimal care and hard riding. My vet swears Hancock mares have less difficulty foaling than other lines, too, and there are a lot of them around here-- usually crossed on halter or cow-bred lines to put some good bone and toughness on the foals. 

I wouldn't discount this nice-looking mare on pedigree, especially if the price is right and she has a good personality. If you do decide to breed her, choose a proven stallion from known lines, and you should be fine.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

SilverMaple said:


> There's a little Hancock in her, but not a whole lot. I don't mind a little in a horse, especially when crossed on working lines. Double-bred Hancocks tend to have a propensity to buck, but the line is also known for intelligence, soundness, and work ethic-- something lacking in some of the show lines. Hancock/Blue Valentine and Two Eyed Jack are two lines popular in Montana, Wyoming, Nebraska, Nevada, etc. due to their soundness and toughness and ability to do well in bad weather with minimal care, and hold up to a lot of work in big country. You'd be hard-pressed to find a ranch that doesn't have some in their breeding program. Sometimes it's for color, but usually it's because the horse was a decent individual and thrived with minimal care and hard riding. My vet swears Hancock mares have less difficulty foaling than other lines, too, and there are a lot of them around here-- usually crossed on halter or cow-bred lines to put some good bone and toughness on the foals.
> 
> I wouldn't discount this nice-looking mare on pedigree, especially if the price is right and she has a good personality. If you do decide to breed her, choose a proven stallion from known lines, and you should be fine.


Wow! Completely thought I replied to you...Sorry about that! Thank you for the info! Ive seen close to 100 pics of the 2 foals she has had in the past 5 years as well, so have a little more of an idea of what she produces, granted it was to a stud that is no longer available to breed to but still

Had to reschedule as I thought I had found a horse a bit closer to me, but didnt work out so going on Monday with the plan of purchasing her, of course I have to like her first. In a few years I would like to breed her, since I have no clue which direction I want to go as far as what kind of foal I want...Appendix, Half-Draft, QH/Paint, the next few years will give me more than enough time to decide. Once again, all dependent on how the visit goes in 5 days!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Wanted to update....I went to see Ace's April Dawn aka Bella and did in fact buy her. She's just recently been started back under saddle after having 2 fillies the past 5 years but she was very respectful, well behaved with my daughter,a nd just overall a joy to be around. Will bring her home in another month or so while I finish a few loose ends up here at my house.....here are a few more photos of her


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Congrats! I'm glad she turned out to have a good temperament and wasn't just a pretty face.


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## pasomountain (Dec 19, 2018)

How exciting! Hope she works out well for you.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Congrats! I hope she's all you want her to be!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Congrats! I like her!


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## Kriva (Dec 11, 2015)

Congratulations, she's beautiful!!


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Oh amazing! Congratulations!! So glad it worked out, looking forward to hearing more about her once you bring her home


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

Never mind now they are back.


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## equestrianwife (Dec 15, 2016)

Congratulations! Love her! My boy is Sonny Dee Bar on the top too.


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