# Ear Pinning Help?!?!



## jesredneck98 (Dec 11, 2009)

I have a 6 year old quarter horse mare who I have had for about a year now. She has always had a problem with pinning her ears and being sometime aggressive in her manners. She has always been this way. I don't know what happened to her if anything when I didn't have her or if it is just a learned behavior to get what she wants without having to work for it. Last night I had the chiropractor work on her for the first time and she was pretty ****y about it for the first little bit, and then calmed down slightly. I hate that she does this because she is beautiful and the whole ear pinning is just annyoying. She has never hurt anyone but I wonder if she would? Any ideas on how to help this?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Sounds like she's a typical horse. When they're being ****y, they pin their ears. 

It's not something you can train out of them; it's part of how they communicate with others.

If she hasn't escalated to aggressive behaviour, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Yep, she will. Ice is in a permanent state of ear pinning, and he bit the chiropractor, my BO, another girl..... the chiropractor and the girl didn't leave marks they were just "warning" bites but he did a pretty good one on the BO.

Definitely work on respect. She's ****y because she doesn't want you in her space.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Sam, please don't generalize and say the horse _will_ become aggressive because she's pinning her ears. 

If _your_ horse is biting other people, then it's due to lack of respect and training on _your_ part. Doesn't mean the OP's horse is going to become aggressive.

Some horses pin their ears a lot, but that's _all_ they do.

My horses can pin their ears but they're not allowed to bite, kick, or otherwise threaten someone, me included. 

If you're the obvious leader and don't condone such behaviour, your animals won't do it if they're trained properly and respect you.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I have a 21 year old gelding that pretty much walks around the paddock with his ears pinned non stop. He knows better than to be aggressive towards me in any way. I think he's just a grumpy old fart.

I also work with a pony mare who, I can honestly say, spends more times with her ears pinned than she does with them any other way. She has never bitten, kicked or otherwise showed aggression.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I agree with Speed Racer. 

At my camp there's a little pony mare that will stand there and pin her ears like crazy. She does bite/kick at people she sees as easily intimidated but she won't bite or kick you as long as she feels like you're in charge. It's just her personality. She's just a very business-like mare and she doesn't like not working, therefore she lets you know with her ears. I actually prefer that she pins her ears so much. I've been around horses that gave no warning, they'd just kick/bite out of nowhere, that's scary. But with ****y horses you can see where they're coming from WAY before they do anything about it, so you can protect yourself, if necessary, before you're "in danger." 

I wouldn't worry about it unless she actually starts biting/kicking (I think we've covered what to do if she does start biting/kicking). I mean, I might not let little kids around her just because they can't get out of the way quickly enough if she decides they're wusses, but other than that I wouldn't worry.


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## damnedEvans (Jan 23, 2010)

Well, I guess that this is not really something that you can change. Some horses pin their ears because they are just ****ed. But they don't try to bite or kick. But from what I saw the majority of them pin their ears as a warning. They will tend to be aggressive with you if they have their ears pined. I think that you should be careful with her and be prepared. If she becomes aggressive you should punish her right away. 
I deal with a lot of horses that pin their ears and the majority will not limit themselves at it, they will try to bite or kick if you decide to ignore their warnings. Just one of them will just pin his ears and not bite. So I think that the problem can degenerate in something more serious. Just my opinion.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

If a horses ears are pinned, they _can _become aggressive, better? 

She even says shes aggressive already, which I'm assuming means she is pushy on the ground. If the OP comes and says otherwise, my mistake. But pushy and ****y to me equals the possibility for escalation, i.e. hurting someone.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The problem is not her ears. A horse has never hurt anyone with thier ears. Correct the "aggressive" behaviour when needed but if all she does is pin her ears then leave her alone. keep an eye on her and stay safe from her mouth and feet.


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## CharliGirl (Nov 16, 2009)

I think ear pinning is more of a respect (or possibly health) issue. One of my geldings always had his ears pinned--until he started to learn to respect humans more. He kicked out at someone once and bucked a few times--nobody ever got hurt, but it was scary. 

His ears are almost always forwards now--because we have developed a relationship with a designated leader (me) he doesn't have to try to "get to the top" anymore. Horses need leaders, and if you don't step up to be that leader, they will. 

Watch a herd of horses--you will rarely, if ever, see a submissive horse in an established herd put it's ears back aggressively to the dominant horse *unless they are testing the dominant horse's authority*. Your horse is testing you--be a leader.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Every horse pins their ears. It's how they express their attitude when they're not happy with something. Our one gelding, Columbo pins his ears, but only at certain times. He does it when we have the theraputic program running and when there are volunteers on either side of him and leader leading him. I've come to the conclusion that he hates when there are people all around him, in his space. I would too honestly. We only put the very independent riders on him so we don't need someone on his right and left sides. He's perfectly fine with the leader though. He never gets aggressive!

If a horse starts to get aggressive, than that becomes the problem, not their ears. The aggressive behaviour needs to be corrected immediately, and constantly. Be very consistant, that is the key.


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## knickerb (Apr 22, 2010)

This is what I have seen when horses interact with each other. 

1. Give a look, warning!
2. Pin ears, escalated warning!! 
3.Move into the others space, action!!!
4.Kick, bite!!!!

Maybe some folks can live with their horse giving them warnings all the time but I don't want my horses giving me warnings ever. I want their ears on me asking what are we going to now.

Seems to me the minimum one has to do to pinned ears is a warning back until the pinned ear comes forward. 

1. Look, warning.
2 Raise energy level,escalate warning
3.Raise hand, move into horse space, action!!
4.Whack, action, get out of my space!!!!

Ben


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## 5cuetrain (Dec 11, 2009)

You need to know the horse to decide whether the ear pinning is a problem or not.

Usually it goes like this:

A movement of the head and a look.

Same movement with the ears pinned.

Add a step or a nip.

Blast you with a double barrell kick.

You can interupt the progression wherever you choose.

For me its better to address the movement of the head and the look.

Then the rest doesn't happen.


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## yukontanya (Apr 11, 2010)

My newish paint gelding has the same problem and I think in his case its learned behaviour (its keeps people away from him) mixed in with a lack of respect. We are working on both, i need him to know people are a good thing, then that he should respect them.... But what I am finding that is helping him to come around are treats.. I know I know... they can be over used, but in this case when he sees me he knows its always always good news. And when we are doing ground work and he respects me and lets me do what I want with out a fuss he gets a treat. DO NOT OVER TREAT! Treats can be used to bring a horse around to something new, and at the end of a exercise, but not ever other second. 

I have never done clicker training, but have a friend who swears by it for her aggress/****y lipozzaner mare. She charges the clicker with treats (this only ever needs to be done once) ie.. CLICK then treat, CLICK then treat, CLICK then treat, do this about 15 times then the horse will get that "noise = treat". Then you could spent some time with her, anytime her ears come forward click then treat. If it is a learned habit, you could help her unlearn it. I have never done this, but I was told it works wonders.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

When a horse pins his ears he's either being dominant over you or he's mad about something. In both cases it's NOT ok to see, and it CAN and SHOULD be fixed. It's a relationship/respect issue. To simply ignore it is to ignore the horse's feedback on how he/she feels about what is going on.


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## jesredneck98 (Dec 11, 2009)

Thank you to everyone who took time out to read and then post. Everything seems very much like what she is doing. I know that we have issues to work through. I do think that it is an attitude thing becasue she has a tendency to also flip her tail. There are times when she is GREAT and others not so great. She is worse when she has new things around her or people who want to work at her. She only skruck out once at the ferrier. She has been fine with him ever since still pins ears alittle but not as bad. I am hoping that working with her like the chiropractor does will help get her used to people being in her space. I also think that I just need to be much more consistant with my disicpline. She is worst before I ride her, she never really pins her ears when she is riding, shen is always listening to me and always wants to work. I can get all in her space when I get off she doesn't mind it's usually just before or when new people are around. She does not like kids and this I am aware of! She has also only bite once which in my book is one two many and she was disiplined right then and there. Thankfully we have gotten better working together on these things and she doesn't scare me, but I do know that I can't let it get worse. 

What does everyone use for disicipline???


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> When a horse pins his ears he's either being dominant over you or he's mad about something. In both cases it's NOT ok to see, and it CAN and SHOULD be fixed. It's a relationship/respect issue. To simply ignore it is to ignore the horse's feedback on how he/she feels about what is going on.


I thought that Parelli horses pinned thier ears because they were concentrating.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

This has nothing to do with Parelli kevin, so don't start


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I couldn't resist pointing out the inconsistency of your statement.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

When a horse pins its ears it isn't happy and is tryong to warn you that something else might be coming. I have been trying to get a mare trained that come from a ranch where she had never been handled until she was halter broke and 3 yrs old. Generally these are my favorite types of horses but this mare and I got off on the wrong foot and we had been at a standoff until this week but that's another story. She is very protective of her right side still and when I go to touch her there she will pin her ears and get ready to bite. Now if one of my broke horses did that I would wallop them on the nose so fast you wouldn't believe it but this mare is just getting to trusting me a little so I'm not going to punish her much at all. I may bump her with my hand bet usually I ignore it and rub where she will let me and work from there. A week ago she would pin her ears anywhere I touched her but now it's only around her face and then not every time. 

The point I'm trying to make is that if a horse is just trying to protect itself then you don't want to go hitting on it or screaming and waving your arms around. You want to head the warning and proceed with caution. Alot of unneeded punishment is not going to further your horses training and is only going to enforce the horses feeling like it needs protection.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Yes horses can pin their ears out of concentration but that is not the case with the OP's horse IMO. Which is why I didn't say anything about it.


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## munschk (Mar 11, 2008)

This is actually a very interesting thread for me because my mare does the same. My mare pins her ears back when we're lunging and I ask her to move forward into a faster gait. I personally just attribute it to her being lazy and not wanting to work and she'll also pin back her ears if I have her food bucket in my arms when I'm leading her. That I attribute to her wanting her food and being irritated that she has to wait to get her food.

But I haven't ever punished her for it because she has never bit/charged/kicked or anything. She just puts back her ears but she knows I wont tolerate anything else.

So, sorry for jumping onto the thread her, hope the OP doesnt mind. But for those people who say pinning ears must be corrected, how do you go about doing that? I was always worried that you could get into a similar situation with dogs that are punished for growling which results in them biting without a warning. Does that not happen with horses too?


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## Chella (May 23, 2009)

CharliGirl said:


> Watch a herd of horses--you will rarely, if ever, see a submissive horse in an established herd put it's ears back aggressively to the dominant horse *unless they are testing the dominant horse's authority*. Your horse is testing you--be a leader.


You have to be the leader - all of the time. You can't let them get away with disrespectful gestures some of the time. Horses do not understand ambiguity. If a horse is doing something, pinning ears, swishing tail,turning butt to you etc that is disrespectful you have to let them know that it is not tolerated. I think pinning ears is disrespectful and it could lead to other disrespectful behavior.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

munschk said:


> This is actually a very interesting thread for me because my mare does the same. My mare pins her ears back when we're lunging and I ask her to move forward into a faster gait. I personally just attribute it to her being lazy and not wanting to work and she'll also pin back her ears if I have her food bucket in my arms when I'm leading her. That I attribute to her wanting her food and being irritated that she has to wait to get her food.
> 
> But I haven't ever punished her for it because she has never bit/charged/kicked or anything. She just puts back her ears but she knows I wont tolerate anything else.
> 
> So, sorry for jumping onto the thread her, hope the OP doesnt mind. But for those people who say pinning ears must be corrected, how do you go about doing that? I was always worried that you could get into a similar situation with dogs that are punished for growling which results in them biting without a warning. Does that not happen with horses too?


Pinning ears is something like a dog growling--while it is acceptable in some situations, say to a stranger, dogs think in a pack structure. There are many reasons to growl, and a submissive dog would never growl or become aggressive with the pack leader. The same goes with horses. If the horse pins their ears at you, its quietly testing your authority. 

When your horse pins her ears on the lunge, she is resenting being dominated by you and being told to move faster. When she pins her ears over the grain bucket, that's the first stages of food aggression. Shes stating that she wants her food and you need to get away.

For the lunging, any time my guy gets ****y or tests me, I make him work harder. until he's not so ****y anymore. We're working on food/grain aggression, but I put him in the round pen and if he tries to come in to my space or chase me off, then he gets to work for his food too. 

The general rule is that effective punishment is only as severe as the action--so when your horse pins her ears, a simple "no" and a cue to move faster or move away would suffice...where as a threat to kick or bite would need something more severe.


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## yukontanya (Apr 11, 2010)

munschk said:


> But for those people who say pinning ears must be corrected, how do you go about doing that? I was always worried that you could get into a similar situation with dogs that are punished for growling which results in them biting without a warning. Does that not happen with horses too?


Well I would say you have two options... 

1. Shoo her away or make her do work when she puts her ears back

2. Treats... she get a treat when her ears are forward..

I have been using both on my abused gelding, and he's coming around really fast. When he approaches you/ or you approach him in the paddock he pins his ears, so I shoo him away, he can go away and come back with his ears forward. And when doing ground work, going anywhere behind his shoulder he pins his ears, soIi wait and when something catches his attention and his ears come forward I release the pressure, and he gets a treat. I have been doing things like this for a week, and I have cut his ear pinning in half..


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## munschk (Mar 11, 2008)

Thats exactly what I do on the lunge. I'm not scared of her, she pins her ears and I continue to ask her for whatever gait I want and only let up when she moves into the correct pace. She still pins her ears though but she does as she's told.

As for the food aggression, she pins her ears but she learnt hard and fast not to try and get pushy with me. She pins her ears but waits, because she knows she can only go to her food when I put down the bucket and invite her to come closer. If she even tries to push into me she gets backed up, made to yield her hindquarters and forequarters and basically just worked until she stands still. She tried this once after another girl had been feeding her for two weeks and obviously let her have her way. Since I corrected her though, all she does is pin her ears.

What I want to know is, she knows the boundaries, and she does not cross them anymore. She merely pins back her ears. She does the same when people use too much leg on her, she never reacts further than that. At least not with me. So, what I really want to know is that, should I be punishing her for putting back her ears? (Oh, and hitting my horse is firmly out of the question, she's been abused so the extent of punishment is a loud no which is usually very effective).

(And as for a dog, remember, if a dog is cornered, regardless of whether it is submissive or not, it can still bite. Fight or flight. Sometimes if you dont give them the option of flight, then fight is it. I just prefer to have the warning growl than an animal that attacks out of no where.)


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Haha I've worked with dogs for two years, I was basically trained in pack behavior, and I have seen some CRAZY dogs. Most level headed dogs, like horses, have a step ladder of aggression. But like horses, some dogs just snap for literally no reason (I've seen a 40 lb mutt track a 100 lb golden retriever she didn't like across a quarter of an acre, and then attack her for no reason).

Often times, abused horses are the ones who need the clearest boundries. She will know the difference between a smack on the chest for pawing or getting an elbow in the jaw because she turns to nip you while girthing and having the crap beaten out of her, as long as you do it in the correct time frame. I'd say 99% of correct training is timing.

And yes, you should still be "punishing" her for the ears, IMO. Thats her way of saying "I will, but I don't WANT to". So in other words, if one day she decided she REALLY doesn't want to, well then she won't. As for the leg, she could either be protesting the command itself, or she could actually just be saying "I got it, thanks!" However if you use the ask-tell-demand method, then she'll earn to respond to the lighter leg and you won't have to worry about using too much.


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## Peetz (Mar 14, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Sam, please don't generalize and say the horse _will_ become aggressive because she's pinning her ears.
> 
> If _your_ horse is biting other people, then it's due to lack of respect and training on _your_ part. Doesn't mean the OP's horse is going to become aggressive.
> 
> ...


Ya, what he said. My 6 year old QH mare pins her ears when she is in her stall, no matter who walks by, but she has NEVER attempted to bite a person , she will nip at her barn mates when they go by to head out to pasture but she always goes last so she gets upset. She pins her ears at me but I have had her from the day she was born and has never been aggressive because she knows who's boss. Me! 
Ear pinning is just like a person furrowing their brows, it can mean different degrees of anger or agitation.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

There are several types of ears back, or pinning: it might mean fear, or submission. I think you always have to observe the rest of his behavior too. My dominant mare pins her ears when she maneuvers the other mare, who ALSO will put her ears back as she submits.

If the ears are _flat_ back it can mean strong fear, or aggression---either scenario can be dangerous to you.


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## jesredneck98 (Dec 11, 2009)

I would like to thank everyone again for their comments. Everything is right up our alley as far as what is going on. I have had problems with babying her and have to remind myself all the time that this is not allowed until she can behave all the time. Sometimes easier said than done. I do have to agree with what KEVIN says because as much as I understand that discipline is required it is knowing what lengths in which to go. I don't want to make it worse or head shy or scared. I think that it is going to take effort on my part and consictancy to make sure that everything is the same everytime. I also think that the treat idea is good with alot more work to calm her down. Thank you again to everyone and please getting writing to help everyone


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