# Horse backing up on trail



## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I am wondering what the correct approach to a horse that refuses to go forward by backing up? That is, in an area that isn't safe to continue backing up or turn around very well in.....like a trail on a hill with rocks etc. 

When she does this, I will continue pushing her forward starting with the sitting forward, squeeze and cluck....then I go to more squeeze and a kick....but sometimes you can start to run out of room when you are backing into a bush etc.


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## Quarterhorselover3 (Jan 1, 2013)

I could use advice on this too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mvinotime (Mar 5, 2010)

My lazy mare will occasionally try this and what has worked for her is when she decides she not going forward we do hard, fast and tight circles. I'm not nice or easy about it, I make it work! I do this the second she decides not to move forward. I had previously tried a crop, kicking etc but got nothing but more backing up. Sometimes we do in fact go off the trail a bit but I just keep her circling and then ask for the forward movement directly out of the circle. The first time she tried this it took forever and we were both exhausted but eventually she decided to go forward. Now if she occasionally tries to pull that I need only do one or maybe two circles and she moves right out. Just is what works for her and I but you could possibly try it? I just make it harder to NOT go forward then it is to just relent and move out.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I can agree with the above advice, if there is room to turn the horse in a very tight circle, but the OP says there is not room for that.

As far as the horse backing into a bush, let her. if she gets herself a pinch on the fanny, she'll want to go forward more.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Try working with her on it where there is room... So you can work on it, see what will push her to not want to go foreward in a space with lots of room, and when she backs up go "Oh, you want to back up? Okay, lets back up!" and lean back, and pull your rains back hard so she has to back up fast and hard for at least 10 steps, or at least till she gives in to the bit.
Also it's possible she's backing up because she's afraid. If this is the case, when she stops let her stand there for a minute to check out her surroundings. If she wants to take a step foreword of sniff something, let her, it's building her confidence. After standing for a minute ask for another step. If she wants to back up let her take a step or two back, but don't let her turn another direction with her front or rear end. Then ask her for another step. Repeat this and it will build her confidence, and her trust in you. If it is fear, then there is a threshold, and she's too scared to cross it, so you need to help her cross it


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I think this is one of those "1 question, 40 answers" questions. :wink:

My Lacey girl used to try this one (still thinks about it if she gets really overstimulated - it all basically stems from how weirdly her previous owners treated her, she actually ended up rearing up+over with one of them while doing this "trick") and if I tried circling or pushing her on with just my legs, she'd start side-stepping or continue backing up and the end result was some major rearing. Shed just rear and rear until I got off or stopped asking her to do whatever I was asking her to do.

There were/are two things that work with her:
a crop - it turned out that at her previous home, no one had apparently tried using a crop to solve this one! So that option was luckily not broken. 
I got a short crop, made a little clip for it (so I could attach it to the saddle and only "magically" have it when she was acting up), attached it to my saddle, and took her out on a trail ride. I acted the way I always did, except that as soon as I felt her start to balk, I put my reins in one hand+loosened them up in case she jumped forward, and smacked her a good hard one on the booty with the crop (if there had been any question of whether she was going to continue on, I wouldn't have smacked her but at that point any balking was leading to "fun" so I didn't give her any lee-way). 
She lept forward and we kept on our way quite happily. I remember being so surprised at how relaxed she was, post-smack. Apparently she really didn't care about precisely not going forward, she just wanted to pull a trick on me! Arabs! :lol:
I might have had to smack her a couple more times after that but those times became rarer and rarer. I still generally carry a crop on my saddle, just in case, but it's very very rare that I ever even pick it up. Usually it's just a "cool" accessory (it's purple and sparkly, hahahah).

riding on a very narrow trail with 7+ horses behind us - this isn't an option for most people, but pretty much directly after I got her out of the habit of this backing up junk, I got the chance to work at a summer camp leading trail rides. Lacey was my lead horse so she was leading day in and day out. If she tried backing up: "cool story bro, that horse behind you doesn't like your butt in his face so he's going to bite you in the butt!" 
The trails were so narrow that there was no turning around and that horse behind her was a really good motivator to keep forward motion.
After that summer of trail rides (2 years ago), I think she's tried the backing up thing maybe twice and I was always ready with the crop. She hasn't tried it once in probably a year and a half. Same with the rearing; no more balking=no more rearing.

Good luck! I know how frustrating this little habit can be!!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

mvinotime said:


> My lazy mare will occasionally try this and what has worked for her is when she decides she not going forward we do hard, fast and tight circles. I'm not nice or easy about it, I make it work! I do this the second she decides not to move forward. I had previously tried a crop, kicking etc but got nothing but more backing up. Sometimes we do in fact go off the trail a bit but I just keep her circling and then ask for the forward movement directly out of the circle. The first time she tried this it took forever and we were both exhausted but eventually she decided to go forward. Now if she occasionally tries to pull that I need only do one or maybe two circles and she moves right out. Just is what works for her and I but you could possibly try it? I just make it harder to NOT go forward then it is to just relent and move out.


My problem is actually when I am in a place that I can't do that...while riding on a berm or surrounded by bushes on a trail...plus, if riding my percheron, she has a long back and is not very agile in turning quickly.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Funny how no one mentioned the simplest of cures; the crop!

I use a dressage whip and mostly I don't even hit Zulu if he balks., I hit my own foot, but the sound is enough to get him to change his mind.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Wallaby said:


> I think this is one of those "1 question, 40 answers" questions. :wink:
> 
> My Lacey girl used to try this one (still thinks about it if she gets really overstimulated - it all basically stems from how weirdly her previous owners treated her, she actually ended up rearing up+over with one of them while doing this "trick") and if I tried circling or pushing her on with just my legs, she'd start side-stepping or continue backing up and the end result was some major rearing. Shed just rear and rear until I got off or stopped asking her to do whatever I was asking her to do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that! I will have to try that. I usually don't carry a crop since I am so not coordinated with holding one and not having it going every direction....but attaching it to the saddle and only holding it to use briefly would be good.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> Funny how no one mentioned the simplest of cures; the crop!
> 
> I use a dressage whip and mostly I don't even hit Zulu if he balks., I hit my own foot, but the sound is enough to get him to change his mind.


I will try this one. It just scares me to try it in case of the 'leap forward' thing....but it's better than backing down a hill bank or bush.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> I can agree with the above advice, if there is room to turn the horse in a very tight circle, but the OP says there is not room for that.
> 
> As far as the horse backing into a bush, let her. if she gets herself a pinch on the fanny, she'll want to go forward more.


Yeah, thought that too....once again, scared of the whole leaping forward thing.....I guess I need to try it and get over it!


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

I don't know if you saw or read my advice... But it's just what I've found to work the best. Has worked better than anything else I've tried


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Yes, you need to be ready for the leap forward and like Wallaby said, give enough rein so she won't get bopped in the mouth. 

If your horse is balking out on the trail, then you might want to improve her responsiveness overall, in an arena where you can more easily deal with her .
She may be less responsive to you all the time than you really recognize. 

I know we all accept less from our horses than they could give us if we were willing to demand no less. Well, I know I do. maybe not others.
So, when things like that start cropping up, it usually means I've gotten really sloppy in what I'll accept in other areas, too.
Time to sharpen up my expectations, and GET what I asked for, and promptly. Often times, then when my horse balks out on the trial, all i have to do is literally rais the crop and he says, "OH, right. I remember, you're serious, aren't you?"


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Nokotaheaven said:


> Try working with her on it where there is room... So you can work on it, see what will push her to not want to go foreward in a space with lots of room, and when she backs up go "Oh, you want to back up? Okay, lets back up!" and lean back, and pull your rains back hard so she has to back up fast and hard for at least 10 steps, or at least till she gives in to the bit.
> Also it's possible she's backing up because she's afraid. If this is the case, when she stops let her stand there for a minute to check out her surroundings. If she wants to take a step foreword of sniff something, let her, it's building her confidence. After standing for a minute ask for another step. If she wants to back up let her take a step or two back, but don't let her turn another direction with her front or rear end. Then ask her for another step. Repeat this and it will build her confidence, and her trust in you. If it is fear, then there is a threshold, and she's too scared to cross it, so you need to help her cross it


Thanks...I had missed your post. The event happens out of fear. I am slowly taking her out on trails. We have to go over a berm to get to the trails from the ranch. Once we are up there, there is little room to maneuver without tumbling down a rocky 15 foot hill. It has also happend going on narrow trails and we meet mud or something...she will back into the bushes.

I have taken her out on trails leading her and times, when under saddle, not played hero and gotten off...BUT, making her do the obstacle anyway....which she is fine doing. It just seems her confidence is still a little lacking while I am in the saddle still.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> Yes, you need to be ready for the leap forward and like Wallaby said, give enough rein so she won't get bopped in the mouth.
> 
> If your horse is balking out on the trail, then you might want to improve her responsiveness overall, in an arena where you can more easily deal with her .
> She may be less responsive to you all the time than you really recognize.
> ...


You are right....it's me with the lack of confidence, which leads her to the lack in confidence. So, I have to practice getting over my OWN issues. She is very responsive to me, willing and coopertive in the usual surroundings. However, that is also where I am most confident in asking for those things too. So, we both lose that confidence once we cross that threshold into the unknown.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> Thanks...I had missed your post. The event happens out of fear. I am slowly taking her out on trails. We have to go over a berm to get to the trails from the ranch. Once we are up there, there is little room to maneuver without tumbling down a rocky 15 foot hill. It has also happend going on narrow trails and we meet mud or something...she will back into the bushes.
> 
> I have taken her out on trails leading her and times, when under saddle, not played hero and gotten off...BUT, making her do the obstacle anyway....which she is fine doing. It just seems her confidence is still a little lacking while I am in the saddle still.


Alright. An idea is, if she's afraid of mud, grab a bucket of water or something and create your own mud puddle in an open area, and work with her on it there.
Also, a lot of times we don't realize it, but we ourselves can cause the issue. Often times people see something coming and they expect the horse to react a certain way, so (usually without realizing it) people tense up, and the horses sense and feel the fear and go 'OMG MY RIDER'S AFRAID!!!!" and get at least as afraid as you are. So when there's a conflict, remember to check yourself to make sure you're nice and calm and relaxed, because your horse can't be if you aren't


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Nokotaheaven said:


> Alright. An idea is, if she's afraid of mud, grab a bucket of water or something and create your own mud puddle in an open area, and work with her on it there.
> Also, a lot of times we don't realize it, but we ourselves can cause the issue. Often times people see something coming and they expect the horse to react a certain way, so (usually without realizing it) people tense up, and the horses sense and feel the fear and go 'OMG MY RIDER'S AFRAID!!!!" and get at least as afraid as you are. So when there's a conflict, remember to check yourself to make sure you're nice and calm and relaxed, because your horse can't be if you aren't


She will actually cross mud and water normally! Maybe because it was a tighter area on a trail with no end in sight of mud or it smelled different than the trail when it was always dry? But, the big factor is probably that I see the obstacle and tense up.

I will try keeping a crop with me and do our normal riding around the ranch with obstacles and getting coordinated with asking her to go forward and anticipate the leaping forward. I think that will help tremendously. Thanks everyone!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Let us know how it goes!


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> She will actually cross mud and water normally! Maybe because it was a tighter area on a trail with no end in sight of mud or it smelled different than the trail when it was always dry? But, the big factor is probably that I see the obstacle and tense up.
> 
> I will try keeping a crop with me and do our normal riding around the ranch with obstacles and getting coordinated with asking her to go forward and anticipate the leaping forward. I think that will help tremendously. Thanks everyone!


Ok. Well one more idea is to make a mud puddle and put tallish objects on either side of it to create a squeeze area like the trail possibly would


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> Thanks for that! I will have to try that. I usually don't carry a crop since I am so not coordinated with holding one and not having it going every direction....but attaching it to the saddle and only holding it to use briefly would be good.


That's what I do with our Appy, he likes to try and balk every now and then while trail riding. More then than now as I've worked with him to correct that issue. I just clip it to the front ring on the saddle-and let him see I have it  that way my hands are free while we trail ride. As others have stated, you just have to be ready for that forward motion and make sure you aren't inadvertently bumping the horse in the mouth.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Successful baby steps today! Today I rode my percheron up on the berm ponying my pinto for the first time. Usually riding up on the berm is scary for me because it's about 10 feet across and 15 feet down a rocky slope. They see the other horses in the pastures below and some of them run along with us....so it makes me nervous. I went with one other rider and my two girls didn't flinch.

The next goal, probably tomorrow, is to ride on the berm past the ranch next door...which usually freaks them out at times because they have horses on hot walkers and stuff below.

There was a time when my percheron didn't want to go forward and backed a few steps...I just persisted with squeezing and giving her my verbal que noise that what she wanted to do was not correct. She is pretty much always pretty sensitive to that because she wants to please, but even so, when she argues, she is a BIG girl. (I forgot the crop) I just swallowed any insecurities of my own and persisted and did so while ponying the other horse. I am so proud! Thank you for nudging me forward with being more confident in myself!


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Glad to hear it!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Situations like that are exactly why I like to use long split reins on all my bridles. I don't have to worry about remembering them and horses don't figure out "Oh, she doesn't have it today so I can misbehave" LOL. They are there when I need them and out of my way when I don't.

Whenever a horse goes to balk, I can simply slide my hand down the tail of the rein and, voilà, I have a whip in my hand. Give them a pop on the rump and go on.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

I ride a horse who does this. He just wants to go back to the barn. Initially, he'd try to whirl around and bolt for the barn. When he did that, I'd immediately pull him into tight fast circles, pulling him out of the circle when he was going in the correct direction and just keep going. We did this about 4 times within 200 yards on one ride. After the 4th time, he didn't want to do any more circles, so he tried plan B: put it in a solid reverse gear and back up all the way towards the barn. At this point I'd had enough. I gave him a good squeeze with my legs, which was completely ignored. Then I gave him a good, solid, resounding whack on the behind with my crop. He immediately stopped, and shifted into first gear and walked on as if nothing had happened. He tries it again on occasion, but it only takes one smack to remind him. Recently, he only needs to see the crop out of the corner of his eye or a small tap on the rump.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Situations like that are exactly why I like to use long split reins on all my bridles. I don't have to worry about remembering them and horses don't figure out "Oh, she doesn't have it today so I can misbehave" LOL. They are there when I need them and out of my way when I don't.
> 
> Whenever a horse goes to balk, I can simply slide my hand down the tail of the rein and, voilà, I have a whip in my hand. Give them a pop on the rump and go on.


I hear ya...I like the split reins for that too....However, I can't get myself coordinated enough to use them. Maybe I should try again.....especially since I have more rein to work with when I ride my percheron who many reins end up like barrel reins on her neck. Maybe I will dig them out and try.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

freia said:


> I ride a horse who does this. He just wants to go back to the barn. Initially, he'd try to whirl around and bolt for the barn. When he did that, I'd immediately pull him into tight fast circles, pulling him out of the circle when he was going in the correct direction and just keep going. We did this about 4 times within 200 yards on one ride. After the 4th time, he didn't want to do any more circles, so he tried plan B: put it in a solid reverse gear and back up all the way towards the barn. At this point I'd had enough. I gave him a good squeeze with my legs, which was completely ignored. Then I gave him a good, solid, resounding whack on the behind with my crop. He immediately stopped, and shifted into first gear and walked on as if nothing had happened. He tries it again on occasion, but it only takes one smack to remind him. Recently, he only needs to see the crop out of the corner of his eye or a small tap on the rump.


Thank goodness my two horses don't do any 'quick' gymnastics...nothing that goes beyond a trot anyway. These two are perfect for me...slow. However, I can still find myself in a sticky situation.....for me anyway.....and I want to be sure and handle it correctly, since they are well behaved horses and I don't want to screw them up.

I've also had to add the obstacle of ponying the pinto. She is only 14hh, but the percheron still will shy away from her. I am trying to teach the percheron that SHE is in charge, not the little pinto (even though she thinks she is). I've been practicing turning my percheron towards the pinto whether she is in the way and not moving or not...trying to teach the percheron that SHE can move the pinto. My thinking is that it will give my percheron more confidence as well. It's so funny to see this huge horse shy from the little horse. But, it seems, when I insist to the percheron that she can push the pinto away....she listens to me and is impressed in herself when she does it! 

So, tomorrow it will be on to more baby steps for us!


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Haha, don't forget to try to relax yourself when you get into situations


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Lol and also if you feel yourself getting upset, stop and take a couple deep breaths


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