# And you think horse slaughter is bad...



## riccil0ve

I agree. And while we're at it, give a voice to the pigs, and the chickens, and the calves and lambs. I, personally, am a vegetarian. I just can't bring myself to eat a face. I know animal slaughter will never stop, but it can be better, it can be less painful. An animal shouldn't have to live a terrible life just so we can kill it and grill it. They feel fear and pain just as well as we do. A cow that spends its life in the pasture munching grass, and then quietly led to a place where it can be shot in the head with one bullet, never feeling a bit of pain or panic, will taste just as well - if not better than - the chemical-fed cow that was beaten and died slowly and painfully. This is all, quite literally, food for thought.


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## MIEventer

I saw the footage today on the CNN News and I was appauled and absolutely disgusted and enraged. 

I got so angry, I wanted to tie those jerks up and beat the crap out of them. 

All those men who were caught on camera, were charged big time in the court of law, and are spending minimally up to 90 days in prison.

I would love to take a pitch fork to that coward!!!!!

My FIL owns and runs a small Dairy Farm - and NEVER does he hurt the cattle. He is a HUGE Polish guy, and if he ever saw anything like that happen to his cows, that person would be dead before the police got there. I would LOVE for the farmer in this video, meet my FIL face to face.


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## kevinshorses

This guy is a **** poor dairy farmer and has some mental health issues himself but the young man in the video is way messed up. That kid is going to find himself in prison before too long. No dairy farmer that wants to make a living is going to abuse his cows like that. That is an extreme case of abuse. I have never seen anyone abuse cattle of any kind this way.


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## SorrelHorse

There is nothing the US can do about Horse Slaughter. It is taking place mainly in Mexico and Canada and being sold over seas to Europe, Asia, etc where they eat horse eat.

I understand where you are coming from, I did the horse slaughter topic in my Speech and Debate class all last year. I'm gonna copy & paste some of my speeches into another reply....Just a sec


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## SorrelHorse

Okay maybe not. Apparantly my files don't really answer your question. Oh well, I'm off to post them in a new thread then. I want input


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## Alwaysbehind

There is another long thread about this video already.


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## MacabreMikolaj

My point wasn't specifically about the video itself. I understand this is an extreme case, however, it shows what CAN go on behind closed doors. I am not against slaughter nor dairy whatsoever, what I get annoyed with is people who preach about horse slaughter and yet have no issues with eating other animals.

It's just very hypocritical in nature, if you're for one, you should be for all, such as riccil0ve. You can't sit and preach to people about the horrors of slaughter and how we're not horselovers when you do nothing to change the treatment of actual livestock.

It just gets me hot when people somehow think one animal is more deserving of humane treatment then the next.


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## Alwaysbehind

Linky to other thread on this very same video


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## paintsrule

MacabreMikolaj said:


> My point wasn't specifically about the video itself. I understand this is an extreme case, however, it shows what CAN go on behind closed doors. I am not against slaughter nor dairy whatsoever, what I get annoyed with is people who preach about horse slaughter and yet have no issues with eating other animals.
> 
> It's just very hypocritical in nature, if you're for one, you should be for all, such as riccil0ve. You can't sit and preach to people about the horrors of slaughter and how we're not horselovers when you do nothing to change the treatment of actual livestock.
> 
> It just gets me hot when people somehow think one animal is more deserving of humane treatment then the next.


 Totally Agree.


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## sarahver

I got precisely 22 seconds in and had to stop the video as I couldn't watch any further. There are sick people out there and animals are helpless and defenceless. They say serial killers usually start by abusing animals, truly disturbing. I just don't understand what possesses someone to do these types of things?


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## MIEventer

This guy was a member of the U.S Millitary - retired. Then he became a Police Officer...I dred to think about what he did to the public when he was able to get his disgusting, demented hands on them.

He wants to become an Ohio State Trouper - looks like that isn't happening now! 

My FIL runs a Dairy Farm of his own and he says that the rules and the regulations are very strict, and so are the rules on abuse. So now that this mans inbred behaviour's have been made knowledge to the public, I highly doubt that he will be making $ off of his farm - that is, if he still has it.

He has 12 charges on him for this case, and he has been scentenced 3 months per charge. So he is in prison for 3 yeras. Not long enough I say, and I do believe that the governemnt needs to enforce much stricter laws on animal abuse.

This man should be in jail for life, enjoying the abuse from his fellow inmates.


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## speedy da fish

I found that very hard to watch, it was discusting.

I agree that there shouldnt be a ban in dairy farming or horse slaughter, but regulations should be tightened. I deffinately disagree with the video's 'Ditch Dairy' slogan, there's is not need to ban it, just control it.

I live in the English country side and live near and know many dairy farmers, they do not treat their cows like that, they love them, really love them and love their jobs too.

That was animal cruelty to exteme and I dont even know why people like that are even allowed to keep animals. The way they were acting and the way they were talking like they enjoyed it... I dont know why they are still allowed to keep those animals and why they got into it in the first place, they should be locked up, they are insane.


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## farley

i am very pro slaughter, we raise animals for consumption so that we can survive and live in a healthy way however we dont need to be cruel about it. i work several months outa the year on a cattle ranch these cattle are beef cattle and they are tough to control and to move unless you know how they think but just because they are difficult and dont understand us doesnt mean that we cant understand them, most livestock are wild, deffenatly not broke, and therefore we need to understand that they get scared and are only reacting to their instincs. It is the owner of the animals that needs to be responsible in the way they treat and house thier animals and thier responsiblity to hire understanding and responsable people to help care for those animals. the public needs to understand that more regulations need to be put into action, banning and closing of these facilities are not the answer!


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## Sunny

I was a vegetarian for 3 years, a vegan for 1, and stuff like this makes me want to resort back to my old ways of Silk, Morning Star, and Boca.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Snapple122

OK so I got about 40 seconds into that video and had to stop it. I am like, shaking I am so disgusted and angry. How could anyone treat any animal like that? I don't get it.


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## thejessiefox

I live in Ohio and I'm disgusted by this. I watched the clip with a friend, and she literally passed out. I was literally shaking. I have no idea why I continued to watch the entire clip. A friend of mine worked in one of the Ohio egg farms and quit after the first night after she saw the abuse of the chickens. But as for cows? They don't do anything. They stand, eat, and poop. I'm embarrassed that this was happening in my state, just one county over from my home. It's disgusting.


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## Mickey4793

Oh my god, that is awful, it's not even like any of the things those men are doing have a point to them, the guy is punching the cows in the utter and stabbing them with a pitch fork for _amusement _plain ol' fun! Sick..

People like the men in this video need to be psychologically evaluated, and laid off from there job..


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## Scoutrider

Good Lord. I watched exactly 52 seconds and had to turn it off. I'm a proud meat and dairy consumer who lives close to her food, and that turns my stomach. 

My family owns and operates a small beef farm (~20 head), and I personally know several small-scale beef producers and local butchers, and the comfort and safety of the cattle at every stage of production is paramount. I know of many dairy operations in the area as well, and can't imagine any of the cattle businesses treating their livestock that way. 

Twisted people like that give humane and well-run farms and butchers a bad name.


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## maura

I have had the same reaction to the video as other posters, I remember the previous thread where it was posted. 

However, I think the OP has linked two hot button topics that I'm not sure it makes sense to link. 

The video shows out and out sociopathic animal abuse. Not neglect, not from ignorance, but agressive, malicious abuse. The fact that it occured at a dairy barn is mostly coincidental; the abuse itself has nothing to do with dairy farming as a practice. Dairy cows in general have a pretty nice life while they're producing. 

Horse slaughter, and other forms of livestock slaughter for food, *are* part of farming practice. We raise cows, pigs and chickens for food and a farmer must do so in the most cost efficient way possible. While Americans don't consume a lot horse meat as food, the fact that there are slaughter plants in Canada and Mexico is because there is a demand for horse meat, and that we have a huge supply of unwanted horses to fill the demand. If slaughter for food consumption is not done quickly and humanely, or if the animals aren't raised or transported in an acceptable ways, we can address that in a number of ways.

The solution to that horrible video is criminal prosecution for the abuser. 

The solution to ojections to horse slaughter and livestock slaughter for human consumption is legislation on farming practice and slaughter conditions, and educating consumers to create a demand for cruelty free, organic, grass fed or free range meats or to limit demand by encouraging vegetarianism and veganism.


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## rcshawk

I for one haven't any idea what this video has to do with slaughter. This is abuse, and not really abuse of slaughter animals. I am a consumer of beef and probably always will be. I would never eat horse meat because I don't want to. 

Of course I will always be against ABUSE of all animals...


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## A knack for horses

I just about got sick.
I thank G-d that there are Dairy farmers that are good to their animals. The "farmers" in that video need to be stabbed repeatedly with a pitch fork.

On the other hand; this is why all Dairy/Cattle/Livestock farmers get a bad wrap. Non Ag people see these videos and think that all farming is done this way. They think animals are penned up in buidings, fattened up, and then shipped off to slaughter. In the meantime they think the farmers just do whatever it takes to make their money. It infuriates me when these radicals come up to me just because I'm in FFA and say I'm a cruel insensitive person. 

I'm all for EQUAL animal rights; just like we have equal human rights here in America. Every being has as much right to be treated fairly as the next, and they should be, regardless of what they are raised for.


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## soileddove

rcshawk said:


> I for one haven't any idea what this video has to do with slaughter. This is abuse, and not really abuse of slaughter animals.


Good point rcshawk.

You can find abuse almost anywhere you look-- child abuse, spouses, animals for showing, animals bred for food and fiber, etc.. It is always disgusting and this example is terrible. 

This is absolutely not the normal life for dairy cattle and I am happy to see that most of you obviously see that. I get so nervous anytime I see something like this because so often do people assume that all farmers treat their animals this way. I know my dairy cattle live happy, comfortable lives. A healthy, well-taken care of animal is always the best producer and most farmers have so much invested in their animals, that it would do so much more harm than good to treat them like this. 

Only examples of the bad, such as this one, are readily put on display. It is good to expose the abuse that can and does happen, but it is hard on the livestock community and we're constantly trying to stay afloat as it is.


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## Solon

It always amazes me how the anti horse slaughter crowd are the some of the same ones that eat chickens, beef, pigs and some of those animals go through hell.

Slaughter isn't bad. Inhumane slaughter is bad. What needs to be done is have better slaughter codes and have them actually enforced.


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## rcshawk

Just for the record I am not really anti slaughter, though I think the line needs to be drawn somewhere. I don't really know where that line should be though...


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## Solon

Make it humane for the animal and enforce it.


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## dedebird

i wouldn't eat a horse no matter how delious i'm sorry for the little cows and chickens and pigs getting abused but sorry but cows scare me xD chickens.... creppy and pigs are gross x.x but i'd never ever abuse them like that!!!!!


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## HannahJo

I'm not anti-slaughter, but I am anti-abuse. No animal deserves treatment like that and it makes me sick. Any form of abuse is wrong and it really blows my mind how people can do this. I have a friend who is a dairy farmer, and he would never even think of treating his cattle like this. It's ignorant, stupid people like that who make normal livestock farmers look bad. Most farmers don't treat their animals like that, but their is always that one bad guy and we focus on him. Then everybody is outraged and wants to ban dairy....Understandable that they get upset but we can't punish all the diary farmers for this particular incident.


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## eventerdrew

THIS is why I am a vegetarian.


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## PaintedFury

That video is very disturbing, but it is not the norm. Those men obviously have some mental issues that need to be worked on, and the owner should be shot for allowing them to do that to his/her cattle. I'm not against slaughter of any kind, I am however against the lacking codes that dictate slaughter. They need to be tightened and monitored strictly. Everything from the transportation of the animals to the actual killing of the animals, should be done in the most humane way possible to still render edible meat. The only thing that was accomplished in shutting down the horse rendering plants in the US was to ensure that those horses destined for slaughter were no longer killed in a humane manner. We can't control how the horses are slaughtered in Mexico or Canada, both of which still come to the US to buy horses for slaughter. We've also tanked the horse industry because now there are too many cheap horses flooding the market, opening the industry to people who before would not have been able to afford a horse to begin with. So now a lot of people have horses that can not really afford them, and have no idea of how to take care of them.

Slaughter is not bad, but inhumane slaughter is horrible.


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## Solon

eventerdrew said:


> THIS is why I am a vegetarian.


THIS is not reflective of the majority of farmers.


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## Speed Racer

Solon said:


> THIS is not reflective of the majority of farmers.


Neither is the video.

For those of you who haven't heard the updates on this case, the video was shown to have been edited to make things look abusive. When shown the video _in its entirety_, a judge, jury, and more than one vet concurred that no abuse had occurred.

In fact, any real abuse was 'staged' by the person shooting the video. This video has been entirely discounted as any source of evidence of abuse. 

So who's the bad guy here? I hardly think it's the farmer or his family. It's the crackpot animal rights 'enthusiast' who tried to make an example of a dairy farmer who was doing nothing wrong.


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## Solon

I agree with your last sentence completely.


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## eventerdrew

I didn't say it was  

I'm simply saying that for my college lifestyle (poor!), getting organic grass raised beef or chicken is simply not in the cards. Why would I buy from the store when who knows what happened to the poor animals to get the meat there? I'm not about to take that chance.

So please don't think I don't know that most videos like this are staged or that I'm a crazy animal rights activist. I just choose not to eat meat.

Thanks.


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## A knack for horses

Speed Racer said:


> Neither is the video.
> 
> For those of you who haven't heard the updates on this case, the video was shown to have been edited to make things look abusive. When shown the video _in its entirety_, a judge, jury, and more than one vet concurred that no abuse had occurred.
> 
> In fact, any real abuse was 'staged' by the person shooting the video. This video has been entirely discounted as any source of evidence of abuse.
> 
> So who's the bad guy here? I hardly think it's the farmer or his family. It's the crackpot animal rights 'enthusiast' who tried to make an example of a dairy farmer who was doing nothing wrong.


Completely Agree! And those animal rights extremists are the reason the majority of the American population doesn't trust today's farmers. 

My friend is an extremeist (not a close friend). But she used to take riding lessons with me. One day she went to a fair and saw somebody hit their horse for trying to bite them. She just started bawling and saying how could you abuse an animal. :-x She hasn't ridden since that day; and quite frankly, I glad she hasn't.

EDIT* This was a kind of off topic rant. I guess it just shows how 'passionate' the radicals can be.


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## Speed Racer

eventerdrew said:


> I didn't say it was
> 
> I'm simply saying that for my college lifestyle (poor!), getting organic grass raised beef or chicken is simply not in the cards. Why would I buy from the store when who knows what happened to the poor animals to get the meat there? I'm not about to take that chance.
> 
> So please don't think I don't know that most videos like this are staged or that I'm a crazy animal rights activist. I just choose not to eat meat.
> 
> Thanks.


Nowhere did you say you were a poor college student who can't _afford_ meat. You said, THIS IS THE REASON I DON'T EAT MEAT, referring to the video. How else were we to take that particular one-line statement?

I'd think as a college student you'd know that communication is key to any conversation, written or otherwise. If you're not clear and concise, how does that make it someone else's fault if they don't understand what you _mean_ as opposed to what you actually_ say_?

Besides, what makes you think 'organic' meat is slaughtered any differently than regular ranch raised? It's not. They all go to the same slaughter houses, regardless of how they were raised.

If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, forget 'organic' and buy _locally_ raised and slaughtered meat. Or, buy the animal, raise it, and process it yourself. That's really the only way to know exactly how anything is killed, by doing it yourself.


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## rcshawk

Once again this video (whether doctored or not) hasn't anything to do with slaughter. The video was of a dairy farm not slaughter house. Most of the animals were not slaughter animals at all. 

I am not sure of the method used in 'slaughter houses', but if you take a beef to a local meat locker they do as much as possible to kill the animal as quicley as possible when the animal is relaxed. Blood in the muscles of the animal at the time of the kill does not lead to the best meat. I am not sure if there is a humane way to slaughter that would silence the critics, but I think it is key to remember that most animals that are slaughtered (in the states) are raised for that specific purpose.


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## Speed Racer

I agree, it has nothing to do with slaughter except in a round about way, considering that cows who have stopped producing and the majority of male dairy calves _do_ go to slaughter.

It doesn't really have anything to do with abuse either, although the person who shot, edited, and staged the video wanted to make us THINK it did.


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## Solon

Speed Racer said:


> Nowhere did you say you were a poor college student who can't _afford_ meat. You said, THIS IS THE REASON I DON'T EAT MEAT, referring to the video. How else were we to take that particular one-line statement?
> 
> I'd think as a college student you'd know that communication is key to any conversation, written or otherwise. If you're not clear and concise, how does that make it someone else's fault if they don't understand what you _mean_ as opposed to what you actually_ say_?
> 
> Besides, what makes you think 'organic' meat is slaughtered any differently than regular ranch raised? It's not. They all go to the same slaughter houses, regardless of how they were raised.
> 
> If you really want to put your money where your mouth is, forget 'organic' and buy _locally_ raised and slaughtered meat. Or, buy the animal, raise it, and process it yourself. That's really the only way to know exactly how anything is killed, by doing it yourself.


My thoughts exactly. Just because a cow is feed to make it 'organic' doesn't mean it's slaughtered any differently.


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## eventerdrew

alright Speed Racer, no need to get snarky  

That was not the intention of my post at all. and nowhere did I say that it was anyone else's fault I was simply explaining myself further.


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## mliponoga

Really? It was staged? So how did he manage to drop the calf on his side like that?


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## ridergirl23

A knack for horses said:


> Completely Agree! And those animal rights extremists are the reason the majority of the American population doesn't trust today's farmers.
> 
> My friend is an extremeist (not a close friend). But she used to take riding lessons with me. One day she went to a fair and saw somebody hit their horse for trying to bite them. She just started bawling and saying how could you abuse an animal. :-x She hasn't ridden since that day; and quite frankly, I glad she hasn't.
> 
> EDIT* This was a kind of off topic rant. I guess it just shows how 'passionate' the radicals can be.


 ahh, i know those kinds of people, I would like to see what they would do if a abused horse literally attacked them.... 
Heck, i hit my friends! im not going to not smack my horse if she bites me or something.


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## Solon

ridergirl23 said:


> im not going to not smack my horse if she bites me or something.


If my horse were to bite me, he's going to get a poke right in the nose. Biting is never acceptable.


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## ridergirl23

Solon said:


> If my horse were to bite me, he's going to get a poke right in the nose. Biting is never acceptable.


 exactly. :wink:


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## Solon

I wanted to make sure what you said got restated because so many people don't correct for it!


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## A knack for horses

Solon said:


> If my horse were to bite me, he's going to get a poke right in the nose. *Biting is never acceptable*.


Exactly!


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## westerncowgurl

i think instead of making video's of the bad people they should share video's of the good people who do everything they can to make their cows, pigs whatever as comfortable as possible then maybe more people would support them, i dont think trying to make people scared of the industrie is helping the animals sure u can go vegan and show people disgusting cruel videos but that is NOT gonna help the animal what so ever and i dont know why animal rights people do that if i was like that i would not show videos like those but show how there are many good people who actually care about the animal.
srry about my little rant here just people like that make me mad they dont do anything about it they just try to scare people.


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## tempest

Um, how much more organic can an animal get if it lives in a pasture? I understand that the animals bred for food sometimes are tossed in large pens or stalls in doors and then fed lots of grain and corn to fatten them up, but the grain is organic and corn is organic, so aren't the animals fed organic foods?

Please excuse my ignorance, but I've always wondered how an animal could get more organic than it already is.


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## A knack for horses

tempest said:


> Um, how much more organic can an animal get if it lives in a pasture? I understand that the animals bred for food sometimes are tossed in large pens or stalls in doors and then fed lots of grain and corn to fatten them up, but the grain is organic and corn is organic, so aren't the animals fed organic foods?
> 
> Please excuse my ignorance, but I've always wondered how an animal could get more organic than it already is.


I think they mean the food they get fed that is injected with growth hormones, or the animals that are directly injected with them.


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## Solon

Non organic fed cattle sometimes are fed by products. They outlawed feeding specific things like brain tissue etc. sometime in the 90s I think.

Not sure if they are all that way, or only certain farms. Never really checked into it much.


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## tempest

okay, that makes things more clear. Thank-you.


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## MacabreMikolaj

For the record, since everyone seems to be utterly confused why I made a comparison, the entire point behind the video was that abuse does not set the norm. I get SICK of hearing people whine about horse slaughter like somehow the workers are these sick, demented freaks who get off on torturing animals. Finding a psycho on a dairy farm is no different then finding a psycho in a slaughter plant - MOST workers are NOT there to delibrately hurt animals.

The comparison was not meant to be between abuse and slaughter, but rather the mentality of the people involved. Assuming all slaughter plants are cruel is EXACTLY like assuming all dairy farms are cruel based on manipulated video footage.


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## countmystrides

i seriously hate people so much. i couldn't even make it through these videos.. i really wish i could help these animals :/


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## ridergirl23

countmystrides said:


> i seriously hate people so much. i couldn't even make it through these videos.. i really wish i could help these animals :/


 Someone said before... this video is fake.


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## JekkaLynn

MacabreMikolaj said:


> It's stuff like this that makes me so mad when people freak out about horse slaughter. How many people out there can cry for the horses while shoving a hamburger down their gullet. Do you realize how viciously abused livestock is because everyone is so busy trying to ban horse slaughter? Horses are easily the best treated animals in the entire livestock treatment area. Why? Because people try to give them a voice. Why don't we get this much outrage over abused cows?
> 
> YouTube- Broadcast Yourself.
> 
> I'm really not into the whole "ban milk and beef" thing. Just like I'm against banning horse slaughter. We need stricter rules and regulations, not an all out ban because it's simply never going to happen.
> 
> It's been a long time since something made me feel this sick. I don't understand how human beings this twisted and screwed up in the head can walk amongst us. As much as I don't agree with the website posting it, this isn't some Mexican PETA video about illegal horse slaughter trying to convince you the US and Canada treats animals like that. This is real and in your backyard - you can't fake this crap.


Should this thread and video maybe have a warning about how sick that video is? I understand that some people are okay watching that but I'm pregnant and it made me physically ill after about 20 seconds. I'm still shaking 5 minutes later.


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## ladybugsgirl

This is sick and sad. Where is this dairy farm this just made me so mad. How can people get away with this. Is the owner of the opertation out there abusing the cows as well. If not I would have showed and explained to him the situation. If it were my farm I would have fired them. This is soooo wrong so is alot of stuff but this is just so wrong.


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## horseluver50

To those that think the video was made up/staged.. how in the world can you "stage" someone beating a cow with a metal rod. 
He was just pretending to hit the cows when they were beaten to the ground? 
That makes no sense at all.
I hate when people try to reason with others with facts and science. WHO CARES!
I sure don't think the animals getting beaten and abused care about reasoning with facts as to why it ain't that big of a deal.


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## spence

it's not hard to stage just about anything. i've seen their staged videos of the "cruelty" of rodeo events. it's bull. although without knowing, it DOES appear quite real.

now, i worked at a university dairy, and the gal that managed, and her assistant, absolutely loved those cows. weren't even THEIRS and they loved 'em. matter of fact i saw one of the ones i fed when worked their as a calf as a milking cow at the state fair yesterday.

and i listen to farm radio quite a lot. one of the biggest things that keeps being said, and it's so true, is that producers are squeamish about letting the public see their operations and how they work. farmers are private kind of folk, it's not that there's anything wrong going on, but they like privacy. but in order to get the public over some of their freaking problems with where their food comes from, we HAVE to show the public the REAL "where it comes from." and that means taking steps to let the media, or even private folks, come and visit their operations and see how they produce the food that the public eats.

so many folks have been so far separated from their food source for so many years that they're actually starting to have an interest in where the food they eat comes from. they want to know that the animals are treated humanely and without the help of the farmers that produce it, then the public will still go on being as ignorant as they have been for the last, oh, 50 or 60 years and growing? 

and it's not that there needs to be ANY more regulation. we have MORE than enough of it already. it needs to be that people who are producers must strive even MORE to treat their animals humanely. but i don't know anyone who is abusive to their cattle. i worked last fall processing calves for a guy and while we used hotshots as needed, it wasn't meant to be in an abusive form. 

it's a matter of perception, no matter what animal it is that is being raised for food. and some things may not make sense, however another radio show talked about dairy cattle. american dairies use free stalls a lot (big barn, with stalls, cows come and go, don't see much or any free range), while australian dairies are largely free range cows. both systems work, and if we were to attempt to take cows from either system and transplant them, they would not produce nearly as well. it's also a matter of bottom line. nobody in their right mind who depends on an animal for a livelihood is going to be generally abusive to them as it HIGHLY affects their production or potential, which is going to affect the bottom line: getting a decent pay check. and let's face it, without making money, farms DON'T stay in business.

that's another thing that personally chafes me. many, many people perceive farmers as these greedy *******s who only want money. well, frankly, there's getting less and less margin for error. meaning that without a higher level of efficiency the farmer's cost to gain ratio doesn't pay the bills. he is the ONLY producer of goods who gets no say in the pricing of his goods.

and that was a long winded rant, which probably got way off topic. shame on me!


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## A knack for horses

I just go through reading the novel, _The Jungle_, by Upton Sinclair. If you want to hear horror stories of food production/processing, look no further than the turn of the century Chicago packing district. And I believe this book is the reason the FDA was put in place. 

I agree Spence, we need more farmers to open up about the way they run their farming operations. I think it is hard for them to do so because the Agricultural way of life has been so secluded from the rest of the world for so long. I'm sorry to preach about FFA yet again on this thread, but one of the main focuses of the FFA is effective communication. The reason being is everybody is questioning where their food comes, and if we (the Future Farmers) can't tell the world that they don't have much to worry about with their food production, nobody will trust us.


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## AlexS

I managed 15 seconds and wish I had not. I thought about not watching the vid but my curiousity became the better of me. If you are thinking about not watching, just don't.


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## justinebee

AlexS said:


> I managed 15 seconds and wish I had not. I thought about not watching the vid but my curiousity became the better of me. If you are thinking about not watching, just don't.


I'm battling my curiosity haha. Haven't given in yet..


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## MacabreMikolaj

I am REALLY leery on some of the fake stuff - yes, a lot of it could have been staged, but I'm really curious how you stage stomping a calf in front of the camera? I know exactly how livestock is treated, and there isn't a speck of reason for it - neither is yanking tails, kicking downed cows or hitting them with rods.

The problem with the "rodeo abuse" videos is that a lot of it IS abuse - kicking stock, electrocuting them, etc. The problem is almost all footage comes from small unsanctioned rodeos and they try to pass it off as a norm. Same as slaughter footage - they're not faking the ABUSE they're just making it seem like EVERYONE does it. The fakery in this footage would come in trying to accuse ALL dairy farmers of treating animals like this.

I'm just not buying it, and not finding much online as to how it's "fake".


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## Speed Racer

It's not so much fake as staged, Macabre. Which means the person doing the staging did the abuse, not the farmer/owner.


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## Katesrider011

I agree with Kevin that was some @#$%@ with a Mental Disease!


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## Katana

in New Zealand we dont have the same Slaughter issues that you guys do, Our animals are treated a heck of a lot better than they are in many other countries. In my opinion, from my country, and from what we deal with over her, Slaughter is often a far better ending for them than the alternative.


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## wannahorse22

OH MY GOSH! I want to cry!! I could'nt imagine ever doing that- I treat our chickens like their queens!


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## Ladytrails

Watched it, and got sick. Awful. Staged or not - it's still cruelty. I live on 20 acres in the middle of a big agricultural area. The stuff in the video is not the norm. It's drama, mental illness, sick stuff - the exception and not the rule. On my farm we raise beef for our own freezer and for a few friends. Feedlot beef gets hormones for fast growth and antiobiotics to keep them from getting sick because they're in close quarters. Our beef don't ever get hormones or antibiotics. From the moment those hooves hit the ground on our place, they have access to shelter, clean water, hay, grass and grain. At the end, I teach them to eat inside the horse trailer because that's where they will have their final ride to the slaughterhouse and I don't want them jammed in there, afraid....I want the trailer trip to be as stress free as possible. We have sheep - for eating grass so we don't have to mow so much. The farm I bought them from raises sheep commercially, and they told me to be careful when I had to give a couple of my sheep shots of antibiotics - they said to give the shots in specific places because it would make scars in the meat if I gave the shots in their big rump muscles. (Ours are mamas, not meat, but I was impressed with how much the little details matter to careful farmers!) I believe that God put mankind on earth for a reason, and he put animals here for a reason, too, and one of those reasons is to feed us. Even for animals that will someday be meat, I believe that mankind has a RESPONSIBILITY to a higher authority to be respectful of animals and nature. 

Regarding the stockyards and the cruelty of Sinclair's book, read Temple Grandin's "Animals in Translation." She is a Ph.D. who designed humane animal handling systems (like corrals and chutes) to be stress-free for food animals. She designed a scoring system for fast food chains like McDonalds and Wendy's, who won't buy meat from any slaughterhouse that has less than a score of 95% humane (I think it's 95, might be higher). A facility whose employees use a hotshot prod on the animals would lose a lot of points on Grandin's system - using a prod, having cattle slip and fall, or refuse to go down a chute or around a corner are all things that indicate "stress" to the cattle (force, pain, fear, injury). In the good slaughterhouses, they don't have to resort to these things except in very rare circumstances.


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## Mocha26

Someone needs to shove that pitch fork up somewhere if ya catch my drift. Those disgusting pigs deserve what's comin to them. Karma.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnitaAnne

Ok, i did not watch the video & won't watch it. I see no purpose in promoting this type of behavior. It is like those trashy magazines in the stores.

A pyscho beating on a dairy cow has no connection to horse slaughter. 

IMO, horses should be humanely put down, just like a dog or cat. I am a big beef eater, but cattle is bred to be eaten. That is why they are here. 

Horse food is taxed, just like other pet food. Cattle, goat, chicken, etc. food is not taxed. In America, horses are not a food source, they are a companion animal. It should be illegal to sell horses to a slaughterhouse or to anyone selling to a staughterhouse dealer. 

A responsible person would put a horse humanely to sleep instead of selling the poor horse for a few bucks. Never sell a horse for less than the meat price.


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## JackofDiamonds

Oh my gosh i am balling my eyes out! That is disgusting!! They _do _deserve whatever is coming for them and a swear by the angel they better get it it **** hard!!! The abattoirs/knackerys in Australia are hell of alot better than the ones you guys are dealing with!! That is sick! Sadly I do agree with katana sometimes the slaughterhouse is the better ending.


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## amschrader87

Wow this is terrible I couldn't even finish watching it. Obviously these men are cowards they can't beat on somthing that could fight back it's really sad. I think all animals should have a voice, and although I do eat meat, i do not wish this treatment on the poor animals.


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## Speed Racer

AnitaAnne said:


> Horse food is taxed, just like other pet food.


Incorrect. 

If you have an ag exemption, _all_ livestock food, horse feed included, is tax exempt. 

If you _don't_ have an ag exemption, then all feed is taxed including horse, cattle, goat, chicken, etc.

Horses are relegated as_ livestock_ in the U.S., and I for one don't want to see that designation changed. If they were designated as pets you'd be required to license them the same way you do dogs, and you could be fined and the animals taken away if you didn't.

Please get your facts straight.


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## AnitaAnne

Speed Racer said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> If you have an ag exemption, _all_ livestock food, horse feed included, is tax exempt.
> 
> If you _don't_ have an ag exemption, then all feed is taxed including horse, cattle, goat, chicken, etc.
> 
> Horses are relegated as_ livestock_ in the U.S., and I for one don't want to see that designation changed. If they were designated as pets you'd be required to license them the same way you do dogs, and you could be fined and the animals taken away if you didn't.
> 
> Please get your facts straight.


Well, it must vary state by state, because I will stand behind those statements I made. I do not have an ag exemption, and have never heard of one. 

I do not pay tax on goat feed or chicken feed here, but the horse food is taxed. Same with the supplies, the "farm livestock" suppies are not taxed. Also, horses are typically allowed in the subdivisions set up for them, usually 1 per acre limit, but no "farm livestock" to mean goats, hogs, cattle, etc.


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## MacabreMikolaj

What state do you live in?


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## Speed Racer

AnitaAnne said:


> Well, it must vary state by state, because I will stand behind those statements I made. I do not have an ag exemption, and have never heard of one.


What state do you live in? California? That would make sense, since CA legislators aren't exactly in sync with the rest of the country. 

An ag exemption is for people who make some or all of their income from livestock. So if someone has a horse breeding and/or training facility, they're eligible for the exemption.

Since I'm classified as a hobby farmer, I don't rate for the tax exemption and am required to pay taxes on all animal feeds. 

I plan to raise chickens for meat and eggs, so under VA law should be able to get the ag exemption once I start doing that. Which means _all_ my livestock feed, horse included, will be tax exempt.


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## Alwaysbehind

What SR (except it being that easy to get an AG exemption) posted is true for NY too. 

If I were to go buy goat food I would pay tax on it too.


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## Speed Racer

Always, you live in the land of high taxes and nightmare regulations, legislations, and laws. Tell me again, _why_ do you live in NY? :wink:

(You don't really need to tell me. I know why.)


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## Alwaysbehind

Because I like working hard and giving all my money to bureaucrats who then hand it out to people who do not work. Why else would I live in NY.

I mean really, why would someone who has 16 acres who has horses and does their own hay deserve an ag exemption? Heck, I could add chickens, beef and all kinds of other truly agricultural things and I would still not qualify.


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## Speed Racer

That makes no danged sense at all to me. :?

As long as I'm actually _breeding_ something, I can qualify for the ag exemption. 

Since I currently only have nonbreeding animals, I don't qualify.


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## Alwaysbehind

SR, it is NY, it does not have to make sense past them taking my money in the biggest quantities possible.


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## Speed Racer

Virginia's lovely, and we have plenty of farmland for sale. Just sayin'..... :wink:


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## Alwaysbehind

I still want to know what state AnitaAnne lives in. They have interesting rules.


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## Speed Racer

Well, I checked California's tax exemption laws, and they do consider horses 'companion' animals. Not surprised. California_ is_ the land of fruits and nuts, after all! :wink:

In all seriousness, since CA has banned the use of horses for food, of _course_ they'd be considered non-food animals.

However, you can still get an ag exemption for non-food animal feed, if you sell or use them to generate income. 

So California definitely has ag exemptions, and they can be obtained for horse feed if you qualify. Pretty much the same way every state in the Union works.


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## olliexmas

Should I watch this? I think I'll regret it???
I love animals and by the sounds of it I might just burst out crying! x


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## Katesrider011

^^It's pretty bad, if you're sensitive to cows being beaten then yeah I'd suggest you not watch it


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## olliexmas

My curiosity got me anyway. So yeah, i watched and i think its sick. I nearly shouted at my computer (managed to stop myself lol)


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## The Rocking U

That "dairy farm" apparently had employees that had no business working with livestock beyond McDonald's. As a "dairy farm"' they probably prefer their stock alive. Animals can suffer PTSD just like a human and will remember that humans are dangerous. As an old cowhand myself, I rarely even used a prod! It's unnecessary as long as you stay aware and know what you are doing. It's young, impatient, undisciplined and unsupervised workers that tend to cause problems, damage equipment and get somebody hurt. By the way, Oklahoma has what's called a "make my day law". Anybody has the right to use deadly force to protect themselves, others, or personal property! Think about it!


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## Khorselover

I am a vegeterian, so I really believe that all this kind of farming is TERRIBLE! I know that we can't convert everybody to be vegeterians, but people should at least try to improve the animal's living conditions, and they should be killed HUMANELY! is there a petition about this? i want to sign it!


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## GreyRay

Petitions are USELESS!!! Education is key. Trying to force people with the law will do nothing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Katesrider011

^^Agreed


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## ShannonSevenfold

Speed Racer said:


> Neither is the video.
> 
> For those of you who haven't heard the updates on this case, the video was shown to have been edited to make things look abusive. When shown the video _in its entirety_, a judge, jury, and more than one vet concurred that no abuse had occurred.
> 
> In fact, any real abuse was 'staged' by the person shooting the video. This video has been entirely discounted as any source of evidence of abuse.
> 
> So who's the bad guy here? I hardly think it's the farmer or his family. It's the crackpot animal rights 'enthusiast' who tried to make an example of a dairy farmer who was doing nothing wrong.


First off, let me CLEARLY STATE that I whole-heartedly AGREE that this video is full of editing and cutting to only show what the extremists want people to see. It makes the abuse that occurs in the industry look a hundred times worse than it is - even on that one farm! And that it is aimed at making this look like the norm even though it is far from it (I know - I work on a dairy farm).

BUT

I don't really give a rat's butt what that judge had to say - There IS abuse occuring here. It is NEVER okay to do tie a cow up by her nose and beat her in the face with a metal rod. No. No no no no. And those calves? WHY are they being beaten in the face?? And the guy who broke that cow's tail? That's abuse. I'm sorry. The jabbing with the pitchfork and stuff, I can kind of see that. Because when cows get riled up, you can't reason with them. But some of that stuff is just out of line.


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