# can anyone help me with this please?



## CharliGirl (Nov 16, 2009)

What did you trainer do to him? I didn't understand from your post...

A rearing horse is very dangerous. Since you have ruled out all medical causes, it sounds like you either need a good trainer (one who can help him work through this) or find him a new home where someone can. Risking your horse's (and everyone else's!) safety so your trainer can "fix" him is not worth it in any way. Find him somebody who can help.


----------



## Thia (Sep 21, 2010)

First I just want to give you a hug, you seem like you need it. *hugs* Second, I think you need to find a new trainer. Telling you that there's nothing he can do, but to just pull him over is not the way to go. I've never had to deal with a horse that rears like that, but it sounds like he has your number and knows your intimidated and is just being a bully. I'm not saying to put you down, I've had horses that had my number too. It happens to everyone. 

I don't think you were wrong for stopping that trainer. I would have done it to. What I would do is find another trainer to work with you and go back to the beginning. Do a lot of ground work and have a come to Jesus meeting if you must. Just not one where it seems the only answer is to drop him to the ground. If you have too get a couple of different trainers to come out and assess him. Even get a second vets opinion. Not saying that your vet is wrong, but if you can afford it it might help. It never hurts to have another pair of eyes. 

Did he have a change in feed or turnout? Or did someone new handle him/work with him that you know of. Something may have happened that makes him think he could do this. I know it's not much, but I hope it helps!


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Your post is very confusing.

You say he has been rearing for a week but then you say you have spent thousands on trainers to fix it. I know some trainers are expensive but I doubt they have cost you thousands over a week.

Then you say he gets worked daily but then you can not even open the stall with out him rearing.


----------



## GreyRay (Jun 15, 2010)

How did he get into the habit of rearing to get out of work? Did you climb off every time he reared?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

Trainer pulled him to the ground. I don't know the correct terms for it but, it was really screwy. Second off i paid 500$ a day for the trainer to come in plus all the vet and farrier and chiropractor. Trainer was there for a couple of days. It all came up to a very big bill. 

Thia - First off i wanna say thank you for being nice. I'm upset but, it's not bad and i already planned on bringing in another vet and another trainer that's less expensive. but, i am most likely going to have to start from stratch with him. No change in feed. He has an in/out stall so he can get outside if he pleases. but the door for him t go out has been shut because it's muddy and he'll most likely get thrush from standing in it. and no noone is allowed to handle him w/o my consent or w/o me being right there. either way my BO tells me everything.

alwaysbehind - i'm sorry for being confusing in my post but, its been way over a week that it's been happening. and like i said before i paid 500$ a day plus vet and chiropractor. so yeah it's ended up to be thousands by the time im done. but, yes he is worked regularly. i open the stall door, he rears and i have to wait till he stops rearing than he backs into his stall and lets me put his halter on and put him on the cross ties and continues to do it. No ears pinning though.

greyray - and i have no clue how he got into the habit of rearing. and nope i didn't climb off i rode it through but, it just gets worse the more i try. He's only gotten me off once 

I plan to see it through but, i'm sure it's going to be very hard...


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Is this the same horse you posted a thread about going out on a trail ride on? The one that looks so calm and cute in the photo?


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

beauforever23 said:


> Second off i paid 500$ a day for the trainer to come in.


Holy moley, $500 a _day_ for a trainer? And they couldn't fix the animal? :shock:

If I paid a trainer $500 a day, I'd expect that horse to not only be trained to ride, but do my dishes, wash my windows, and take out the trash!


----------



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Well it sounds to me that your horse doesn't respect you. Either you did something or someone else did something to let him know that he can get what he wants when he rears.

If I were you I would get rid of him. He seems too dangerous for you. You're going to get hurt.


----------



## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Holy moley, $500 a _day_ for a trainer? And they couldn't fix the animal? :shock:
> 
> If I paid a trainer $500 a day, I'd expect that horse to not only be trained to ride, but do my dishes, wash my windows, and take out the trash!


^ :rofl:

To the OP: Something or someone has caused this horse to either become fearful (and therefore defensive) and / or defiant. What this horse might need is to just be left alone for a while. Turn him out on pasture and cut his feed back. When you bring him back in, start from square one. Ground manners, lunging... he needs to be reminded we aren't here to hurt him. Taking him to the ground is NOT the way to do it.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Holy moley, $500 a _day_ for a trainer? And they couldn't fix the animal? :shock:
> 
> If I paid a trainer $500 a day, I'd expect that horse to not only be trained to ride, but do my dishes, wash my windows, and take out the trash!


So true.

And I thought the OP said she was a trainer.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

Ok. I'm sorry but, i'm not going to give him up to anyone b/c i love him and that's why i'm here on the forum is to ask for the help to get through this. I don't let him get away with anything. I use natural horsemanship but, i'm stern with him. 

I was thinking of doing that but, the cutting the feed back i wouldn't feel comfortable doing. we already cut his feed back a tiny bit and it wouldn't be a smart idea to do it more.

Yes i'm talking about the same horse that i posted the other thread about but, that's when he wasn't being a beast but, shortly after tha picture he had a episode and started freaking.

and yes i'm a trainer but, i know when i've had too much and well that's where i brought in another trainer but, i don't condone taking him to the ground. scared the holy crap out of me and i'm sure it scared him even more


----------



## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

If he is on pasture all day and gets free choice hay and isn't being worked, grain is just like a treat really (unless the horse is underweight, etc). Why don't you think it would be a smart idea? He just needs to be left alone.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I think I missed it, so sorry if I'm repeating myself. 

What is he being fed? You mentioned a stall, how long is he in the stall per day? What kind of work are you doing with him when you work him?

Would also just like to add that you mentioned "all you could do was scream stop". 
It's important to make sure that when your horse has escalated, you keep yourself calm and workman like to not escalate yourself and therefore him any further and turn it into a more dangerous situation than it already is


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

nope hes definitely not underweight. atleast anymore but, i'm going to give that a try when i go back there tonight i'm going to put him in the paddock and give him free choice hay. hopefully that's the easy solution to this problem. how long would you suggest that for?


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Snookey, the horse in question can be seen in this thread that the OP started.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-pictures/my-ponayy-cutee-70124/


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

Spastic_Dove said:


> I think I missed it, so sorry if I'm repeating myself.
> 
> What is he being fed? You mentioned a stall, how long is he in the stall per day? What kind of work are you doing with him when you work him?
> 
> ...


riight now he's on 1 1/2 scoops of senior poulin grain and he's on free choice hay... he's normally in the stall over night but, as i stated before(not being rude) he has an in/out stall so he's free to go outside wheneve he wants. I do walk/trot/canter/ground poles/figure 8's... pretty basic stuff but, he never gave me a problem before and it's not for long periods of time he's working either. It's not like i'm asking him to work him self to death. if that makes any sense. 

yah i never thought that through before i yelled. i just did it but, thanks i'll keep that in mind


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

yes i started that thread but, if you would have seen what he did after that picture was taken you would have been scared crapless. i've dealt with a lot of stuff but, rearing i know can get very dangerous and i'm not putting myself in the line of danger. he's definitely a sweet thoroughbred when he wants to be. i had the trainer and 2 friends with me when that was taken and they all saw what happened. 

I'm not being rude but, i feel like i'm being bashed for trying to do the rightt thing here and i feel like i have been calld as a liar.. i'm sure you have all gone through some difficulties as horse owners as well as i'm going through mine.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

He looks to be at a fine weight so I like the idea of just putting him on free choice hay and not adding the grain for the same reason already suggested. Is it a stall with a run or does it actually open into a big pasture? 
It doesn't sound like you are working him hard, but maybe his brain is just fried. I like the idea of leaving him alone for awhile then bringing him back slowly and stress free. Mix up the arena work with trails and things like that if he seems to be progressing okay. 

Sounds to me like a case of pent up energy and frazzled brain.

Where on earth have you been bashed?


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

i also believe that my pony is cute no matter what he does and yes i love him to death. i would kill for my horse. but, as for now i'm going to take some advice and leave him be.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

beauforever23 said:


> i just couldn't take it and i'm not going to deal with it. he does it with everything if i put him on the cross ties he rears, if i'm putting him on the lunge line he rears, trying to tack him he rears, etc... EVERYTHINGGG.. so this morning the trainer came in and my boyfriend helped him pretty much just take him to the ground. and he was whinying and all the other horses were freaking and all i could do was scream "stooooppp" and cry.. they stopped and he ran and bucked and reared some more. than of course the trainer yelled in my face telling me that i was wrong telling them to stop because now it's just going to get worse which is total bull crap.
> 
> was i wrong to tell them to stop? or should i let have take him down and over power him and possibly hurt him causing me to have another large vet bill? i'm still upset and now my horse won't let me even come near him.
> 
> ...


First off - he is not a pony. Sorry for the boot to the rear here but he's a horse - not a pet. It sounds as if you are treating him like a big dog. Stop. He has absolutely no respect for you.

You said you couldn't take it anymore? Your trail ride photo was posted yesterday. Your breaking point is that short?

YES you were wrong to stop the session with the $$trainer. If there indeed was one. I have never heard of a $500 per day trainer.

All in all - this whole thing just smells - bad.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

I take things wrong but it just seems like i'm being bashed a little bit. Than again over line you can never tell. Yeah he has a stall with a run so he can get out. and yeah i like the idea of letting him be which is what i'm gonna do. but, i have a pasture i can put him in for a while.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

yeah and the trainer was with me on that trail ride. and i'm sorry if something smells bad for paying $$ for a well known trainer. excuse me for doing the right thing!!! and everthing is a pony to me.. so sorry but, that's my way of being cute... if you would read what i wrote you'd see that it was a couple of weeks i dealt with it. and i couldn't deal wiith it so i hired a trainer to come in... and today what it looked like was the trainer being cruel to my HORSE and NOONE and i mean NOONE is going to treat my horse like that in front of my face!! my horse could have broken his leg from the way he was doing it.. i'd rather stop it than have my horse severly, severly hurt!! so EXCUSE ME for being a good owner!!


----------



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I think leaving him alone is a bad idea. I think you need to get right in there and discipline him and show him who's boss. I think leaving him alone is giving in too easy, and you're letting him know that if he misbehaves, he can go out in a field and have a good time.

I don't mean throwing him to the ground...but just tell him that when he acts up it's not going to be tolerated


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Beau, instead of getting upset, I would just suggest taking the advice you will use and ignore the rest. It saves a lot of nonsense.


Runs do not let a horse run and buck and get out all their horsey craziness. Turn him out in a pasture, drop his grain, and give him free choice hay. Come back in a week and do some ground work with him and see if there is any change. 
Is it possible for him to be in a pasture with some other horses all the time?


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

beauforever23 said:


> yeah and the trainer was with me on that trail ride. and i'm sorry if something smells bad for paying $$ for a well known trainer. excuse me for doing the right thing!!! and everthing is a pony to me.. so sorry but, that's my way of being cute... if you would read what i wrote you'd see that it was a couple of weeks i dealt with it. and i couldn't deal wiith it so i hired a trainer to come in... and today what it looked like was the trainer being cruel to my HORSE and NOONE and i mean NOONE is going to treat my horse like that in front of my face!! my horse could have broken his leg from the way he was doing it.. i'd rather stop it than have my horse severly, severly hurt!! so EXCUSE ME for being a good owner!!


Read your original post. Find the time line. It doesn't track. You ride daily - yet the horse won't let you near him? Come on - it doesn't make sense.

If the trainer is still in business - I am going to hazard a guess that the methods work. Why else did you call him?

Take the emotion out of the situation. From what you have said, the horse is getting considerably more and more dangerous to handle. Do you want this issue resolved by a trainer or a one way ticket?


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

ErikaLynn said:


> I think leaving him alone is a bad idea. I think you need to get right in there and discipline him and show him who's boss. I think leaving him alone is giving in too easy, and you're letting him know that if he misbehaves, he can go out in a field and have a good time.
> 
> I don't mean throwing him to the ground...but just tell him that when he acts up it's not going to be tolerated



Most times I would agree with this. However it sounds like the OP is over faced with this horse. Letting the horse to be a horse and get his jollies out in a field is going to make for a more productive training enviornment for both the horse and trainer. From the sounds of it, continuing to try and 'make him behave' is dangerous at this point. 

Once he has a diet with less energy, and ample turn out I bet you that he will come back with a much more fresh mind.


----------



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Most times I would agree with this. However it sounds like the OP is over faced with this horse. Letting the horse to be a horse and get his jollies out in a field is going to make for a more productive training enviornment for both the horse and trainer. From the sounds of it, continuing to try and 'make him behave' is dangerous at this point.
> 
> Once he has a diet with less energy, and ample turn out I bet you that he will come back with a much more fresh mind.



That makes sense..everyone needs a vacation.

But me I don't tolerate misbehavior, and if I did everything I could possibly do and the horse was still misbehaving, I would not hesitate to get rid of him. No matter how much I loved him. When it comes to safety there is no excuse. But that is totally just my opinion.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

ErikaLynn said:


> That makes sense..everyone needs a vacation.
> 
> But me I don't tolerate misbehavior, and if I did everything I could possibly do and the horse was still misbehaving, I would not hesitate to get rid of him. No matter how much I loved him. When it comes to safety there is no excuse. But that is totally just my opinion.


I tend to agree. However this falls under 'everything you can possibly do'. Diet and exercise have a HUGE effect on the personality and behaviors of the horse. Since OP has ruled out pain and saddle fit, this would be another big thing that would cause the behavior.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

I tend to agree with you Spastic Dove & ErikaLynn. I'm just going to let him have a vaca and let him be. and yeah the run isn't to big so i'm sure that doesn't help none. yeah i can get him in a pasture with other horses. that's what i'm going to do when i get there after my dinner and hopefully in a week he'll be nice and cool. and mls he won't let me near him ever since what happened this morning and the last time i visited him today was at like 11 or whatever time it was. and i was standing outside of his stall. calmly talking to him and i tried to open the door and he ran outside in fear. if you would have seen what the trainer did you would be scared to come near someone too. and i called him for help to try and get my horse some help but i did NOT know it was going to lead to what happened this morning. and i would have known that i would have never asked for his help. he did it with the trainer too so the trainer thought the best way is to bring him down to the ground and over power him and yes i'd like this issue resolved but, sadly that's not going to happen over night. I cursed the trainer out this morning and told him how much of an ahole he was b/c i didn't like what was done. but as said i'm going to put him in a pasture with other horses try and reconnect with him, no work, free choice hay and see what happens and if matters become worse well than i'm going to have to sell him.


----------



## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

beauforever23 said:


> yes i started that thread but, if you would have seen what he did after that picture was taken you would have been scared crapless. i've dealt with a lot of stuff but, rearing i know can get very dangerous and i'm not putting myself in the line of danger. he's definitely a sweet thoroughbred when he wants to be. i had the trainer and 2 friends with me when that was taken and they all saw what happened.
> 
> I'm not being rude but, i feel like i'm being bashed for trying to do the rightt thing here and i feel like i have been calld as a liar.. i'm sure you have all gone through some difficulties as horse owners as well as i'm going through mine.


So, you said that this rearing has been going on for a week. I get that.
And you called in another trainer because you couldn't handle the situation. I get that as well.
So, WHY in the world would you take a horse you couldn't control in his own stall, let alone in the saddle, *on a trail ride!?!?!*
I for one, think that is a completely stupid decision. 

Secondly, $500 dollars a day for a trainer? And his only option was to bring your horse to the ground? I'm sorry to say, but that was not money wisely spent.

As for the actual probelm of rearing, I would say your horse needs his feed cut back, turned out more, and he needs to start from the ground up. And like a few others suggested, I would give you horse a weeks vacation to let the situation simmer down. 

I do wish you the best of luck in finding a soultion.

EDIT* I apologize if you feel I am sort of bashing you, I didn't mean for it to come across that way, but it does baffle me a bit that you would take your horse into a possibly more dangerous enviorment than in an arena when he behaving as he had been.


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

To the OP: I will sort your horse out for you for a mere $1500 per week and I'll even do your dishes while I'm there! Where do you live? I can leave next week and if I don't get him fixed in two weeks I will only charge you for travel expenses. If the trainer was trying to lay the horse down (like in the movie The Horse Whisperer) then it is very unlikely that the horse would be injured and you shouldn't have made him stop.


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Any chance this horse is just bored out his freakin mind? There's a reason why so many TB's end up as eventers. They have the attention span of a gnat and most are very smart and use every trick in the book to get out of working. I agree with others, time off is the first place to start. He needs to lose interest in the rearing and move onto something new like rolling in the mud. When you do bring him back to work, I would really mix it up. Ground work one day, dressage another, jumping another, obstacle course next, you get the idea. Start back small, ask little & reward a lot. No sense in getting hurt, so just let things unwind for while before getting back to it. Good luck.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

beauforever23 said:


> I cursed the trainer out this morning and told him how much of an ahole he was b/c i didn't like what was done.


Because THAT'S professional. How OLD are you? You are aware that it is a child's behavior to pitch a temper tantrum because you didn't like something right? Just because YOU don't believe in laying horses down (which maybe if you did, your horse wouldn't be in such a mess right now) doesn't mean he was wrong. I've used the method myself in times of desperation for animals that are becoming dangerous from lack of respect. 

You're not doing this animal any favors with your wishy washiness and emotional behavior. I don't believe for a cotton picking second that you're paying $500 a day for some trainer, so you can quit with the melodramatics. Horses also don't simply start rearing every single time you look at them funny, so you've done something to cause this or you haven't spent enough money on a vet figuring out where his pain is.

It is blatant from your attitude that you think horses are big pets and have an inability to take any sort of firm stand. Yes, you ARE asking to be bashed because I've seen people bashed for WAY less and everyone was sweet as sugar to you - and you still pitched an immature juvenile little fit.

Maybe it's time to open your eyes and grow up a little. And yes, sell the horse if you're going to continue believing everyone else is the problem.


----------



## JackofDiamonds (Aug 31, 2010)

Oh beau *hugs* its so stressful when this happens, My pony did somehting similar, he was quiet and gourgeouss, then the next was blind bolting and very scared of the world (he went a but nutty). All i can say is patience is the key..I gave Jack about 6 months off and when he came back in work he was coming in leaps and bounds! (still go out and bring a treat give him a pat and some love's then leave, it will help him realise that you mean praise.) Like people i think they get a bit burnt out and just need time to come to terms with life itsef. I wish i had more advice sorry.. but do be strong and people always have negative things to say so just ignore them, we all do..
I know when we get horses that rear whilst riding we fill up a water balloon and when they go up we break it on there poll, so everytime they go up they get wet. Its seems to have possitive affects. But by the sounds i wouldnt be hopping on him yet, just give him time to sort stuff out.

Smile =) it helps alot!


----------



## leni09 (Nov 10, 2010)

hi, really sorry to hear about your horse..
i would suggest that leaving him in a field not doing anything is not the best thing as that is what he wants to do, in effect he has "won" his argument with you because he went from being well worked to doing nothing.. lets not kid ourselves, all horses want an easy life..
however, from the sound of it he is too much for you to handle at the moment, in view of this it is better that you do not work him as it could lead to him learning (/consolidating in his mind) that he can be ignorant and rude to you to a degree that puts you in even more danger.
My suggestion would be to get help from a professional trainer/natural horseman.. We have used this technique with particular horses, including foals, that are either slightly "mental", have major trust issues that may lead them to being dangerous, or that have forgotten how to respect people . we have always had positive results, however i urge that it is not to be done by someone who has never tried it before. the technique has two strengths, the half tap and the full tap. the half tap involves placing the horses head to its front foot or shoulder and holding it there, the full tap is a continuance of this technique in which the horse is put on the ground. it is not a harmful technique when exercuted properly but wont be effective and could cause injury to the person on the ground if not done correctly.. here is a video of a guy called Endospink who is very well known for his use of this..





this video obviously has a calm quiet horse but it demonstrates the technique, the horses that we have done it with have been bucking/rearing psychos so dont be put off right away.
i would say that this is a fairly extreme measure and you may not feel comfortable with it being done to your horse, but i'd just thought id mention it as an option if things get much much worse.

here is probably a better example, obv some people see this and immediately dismiss it thinking that it is cruel, however if the horse is dangerous (maybe even to the point where it may potentially have to be put down, although im not suggesting that your horse is necessarily at this extreme) then its the better option and one that can help to build trust rather than meet the horse with force, because the horse will always win that fight.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

A knack for horses said:


> So, you said that this rearing has been going on for a week. I get that.
> And you called in another trainer because you couldn't handle the situation. I get that as well.
> So, WHY in the world would you take a horse you couldn't control in his own stall, let alone in the saddle, *on a trail ride!?!?!*
> I for one, think that is a completely stupid decision.
> ...


 
i have no idea why we even took him out on trail. i was stupid for making that decision with him. and yes the money was stupidly spent but i just didn't know what to do. 

_____________________________________

myboypuck 
yeah he could be bored out of his mind and just looking for something to do but, he's worked daily like i said so it's just wierd. Oh man rolling in mud that's just icky but, hey if he wants to do that instead of rearing all the power to him. i'll even turn on the hose and put it in dirt and make a mud pile for him. you know he loves jumping and dressage so when i bring him back into work i'll most definitely give it a shot. i love that idea  and i'm sure he'll love it  

kevinshorses
thanks but, i'm just going to have to give it a shot and listen to what the other people are saying and try it that way i'm sure me and my boy will work it through.

SOOO now that i'm done with catching up. well atleast so far. I went down to the barn and he was out in his run relaxing laying in MUDDD. Little beast!! i grabbed his halter and walked over nice and slowly and he ran for his stall. went and got a treat trying not to startle him and i walked over slowly and calmly again. He reached his nose out and grabbed the treat and walked away. I eventually caught him and he had his ears pinned back kinda like "get the hell away" but never tried to rear, buck, cow kick. put him on the cross ties to get him some what cleaned up w/ treats in my pocket but, he still had his ears pinned. asked my BO to put a round bale out and i put him in the pasture. we walked slowly to the gate and he hated it cause all he wanted to do was run. i swear he got in there and started galloping, bucking and rearing like a crazed lunatic but it wasn't a i'm ****ed off it was a "oh my gosh i'm out" he went and played with his friends and i just sat there watching him. I told the BO to leave him out there and they'll leave him out. there's shelter out there so he'll be fine i'm not worried. he came back over to me though and let me give his nose a hug but than pinned his ears back. i gave him his treats and he ran off. i'd honestly rather deal with him pinning his ears back but, i'll try and just bond with him over the week that he's hanging in the pasture. and maybe i'll get somewhere. i'm hoping i don't have more to deal with tomorrow when i get there. i'm just praying that he knocks it off and realizes i'm not going to hurt him..


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Have you checked for ulcers?


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Unless you have hurt him in the past, he_ knows_ that you are not going to hurt him and that is not what is causing him to act up. In all honesty, it sounds to me like a disrespectful horse that is severely under worked. You need some serious help with him from an actual trainer who can deal with problem horses. If you keep on pussyfooting around him because you think he's scared, you are going to get hurt. He's not scared, he's the alpha and he knows it, giving him treats and talking quietly and sneaking around him isn't going to do him any good.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 23, 2010)

I hate to say it, being inexperienced myself...but congrats according to everything I've ever learned about Horses...you just let yours win and get away with a dangerous behavior that could injure if not kill someone. Hope you can find someone that can handle him and train him properly. You were very wrong to interrupt the trainer while laying the horse down. You might not have liked it, and you might not have ever let the trainer do it again, however now the horse has been put halfway through a technique and then was let go out of it without learning anything. That will only confuse it more, on top of whatever has been causing him to lash out in the first place. I honestly hope someone is able to help that horse, because right now I really don't think you are.


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

To OP: My offer stands to any of your friends or anyone else on the HF. $1500 per week and a money back gaurantee and I will travel to wherever you are as long as there isn't a U.S. state department advisory against travel there.


----------



## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Kevin, I may be taking up that offer. What are your feelings about Maine? :wink:


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Are you the only one he does this with? If another person goes into his paddock, does he pin his ears at them too?


----------



## Coyote (Oct 23, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> To OP: My offer stands to any of your friends or anyone else on the HF. $1500 per week and a money back gaurantee and I will travel to wherever you are as long as there isn't a U.S. state department advisory against travel there.


For that rate I'd have trained every horse they owned. (I bet I could hire a few trainers at a premium to get them all done and still pocket plenty...) Plus give their cat a bath.


----------



## MyPaintedRomeo (Nov 9, 2010)

I agree with snookeys, turn the horse out and give him a break. someone isn't doing something right, cruel or not, it isn't working for your horse, and he wants out. So give him a little vacation out with other horse so he can learn to just be a horse for a while, then find a new trainer, someone who will start from the ground up. they need to perfect his ground training before anyone should get on his back.


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Walkamile said:


> Kevin, I may be taking up that offer. What are your feelings about Maine? :wink:


 
I love Maine especially in the winter!!


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Because THAT'S professional. How OLD are you? You are aware that it is a child's behavior to pitch a temper tantrum because you didn't like something right? Just because YOU don't believe in laying horses down (which maybe if you did, your horse wouldn't be in such a mess right now) doesn't mean he was wrong. I've used the method myself in times of desperation for animals that are becoming dangerous from lack of respect.
> 
> You're not doing this animal any favors with your wishy washiness and emotional behavior. I don't believe for a cotton picking second that you're paying $500 a day for some trainer, so you can quit with the melodramatics. Horses also don't simply start rearing every single time you look at them funny, so you've done something to cause this or you haven't spent enough money on a vet figuring out where his pain is.
> 
> ...


 

Okay im going to be nice against this b/c i'm a sweetheart and fighting just ain't the answer. I am 20 and yes I am a very emotional person! He was not simply just laying the horse down because if that was the case than i would have let him do his job. I'm pretty sure that my horse would not have been screaming like that for NOTHING. Once again i'm SORRY for being a good owner!! and YES i paid 500$ a day for everyday he had to come out he was traveling far so i was NOT ****ed off about the money. Yes i believe my horse needs help and that is what I am TRYING to do. I took everyone elses advice and i put him in a pasture whee he can let it out and just have some time off!! and to let you know the trainer yelled on the top of his lungs out at me. he HAD IT COMING and i did NOT throw a temper tantrum i simply stated the facts!! and NO he didn't simply start rearing cause of a look. i asked him to trot and he reared to get out of work so i let him work it out and we tried again and he just kept doing it. and there are no melodramatics here!! sorry but, i'm not some lying little girl and no i didn't. I'm very cool and calm to everyone's statement. I asked for help and i got it and i'm taking advice and reading everything through. so maybe you shouldn't jump the gun! I didn't do anything to my horse. he's treated like freakin royalty. and no i don't think horses are big pets ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! and i did pay for a vet, farrier, and even a chiropractor just to see what was wrong. so yeah i spent a couple of thousand but, to make sure my horse is getting the proper care!! and by the way after i cursed out the trainer i felt like crap and felt remorse for being such a b*tch. and i'm most likely going to call the man tomorrow and apologize so me and him don't leave off on horrible terms. but, no i know it's not everyone elses problem i never said it was. It could **** well be my fault and something i did wrong that is making him do this and intend to see it through and fix this problem and work through it with my horse and we are going to do it together as a team as horse and rider like it's supposed to be but, that's when he's ready.


----------



## Thia (Sep 21, 2010)

The more that I read about this issue the more I can see this is a problem of your own making. I didn't realize when you meant run, it wasn't a big enough space to run around in. Plus you are feeding him senior feed, how old is he? It sound like he is one hyped boy. It also sounds like you stuff his butt with treats no matter what he does. You go to catch him, he runs away..so you get a treat...he takes it...then walks away..congrats, you just taught him it's good to walk away, he gets fed! Take him off all that grain. Give him a handful if you must so he thinks he's getting something, and turn him out in a pasture so he can run off some of that energy. While I still don't believe in throwing down a horse, he needs a come to Jesus talk and worked by someone with experience with his problems


----------



## Amlalriiee (Feb 22, 2010)

Walkamile said:


> Kevin, I may be taking up that offer. What are your feelings about Maine? :wink:


I'm already in Maine, I'll call myself a "trainer" and work any horse for $1500 a week!!!!!! Do you accept references written by the horses?


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

You can curse at me all day and I won't mind for $500 per day. In fact I'll bring my mother and you can curse at her too. I think this whole thing is made up. The OP is either a fool or a troll and quite possibly both.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Not to build myself a soapbox but, personally, I feel that the OP is getting bashed unecessarily. She stated all the work she put into finding the root. She talked to a farrier, a vet, a chiropractor, and a trainer. Most of the people who come here haven't done half of that, just say, "Yes, his saddle fits, and no, I don't need a trainer." Are we really a forum with a damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality? Because that's the vibe I get from this thread. Yes, the OP probably made some mistakes, but we all do. This wasn't a thread asking for a magic cure, or an OP unwilling to take advice. The OP even called someone else in when she knew she was overhorsed. I kindly suggest we all take a step back and stop ourselves from assuming every poster is a fishy troll. You know what they say about assuming things...

As far as this horse goes, I do agree time off is in order. I would probably give him a month off, and then bring a trainer in who will work with you to bring him back. Start with the trainer so that they may be able to see the trigger for your horse should he act up again and can work through it.

Whether stopping the trainer was right or wrong, I can't say. I wasn't there and I don't know what happened. I do believe in following your gut, however. I wouldn't dwell on this aspect, what happened happened. Now it's time to deal with the consequences of what happened. It could have "fixed" him just as easily as it could have screwed him up more. Some very good advice for any time spent with horses is to work with the horse you have today, not the one you had yesterday.

Best of luck, OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

i'm going to try and answer all of you in one thing so it's going to be long i apologize.

kevinshorses - thank you very much. i will most certainly keep that in mind. once again thank you.

second off - i wanna apologize to everyone here. if you guys feel like i gave any of you an attitude i sincerely apologize. i did not in anyway try and be a biatch.

myboypuck - yes i've seen him pin his ears back at several people and he has a leaser that rides on sunday afternoons but i don't know if he's done it with him. 

mypaintedromeo - yep i did so when i went to feed him. i turned him out today and he's with his friends so i'm hoping that gets all the quirks out.

yes i know that sneaking around him and giving him treats isn't going to help but, i just don't wanna scare him anymore than he possibly is now so for today that's how i worked it. i figured since i put him through enough trauma today i'd spare him for even more but, i do want him to know i'm his friend and i'm not going to hurt him.

i don't know who asked this but, yes he was abused by his old owner in the past. is it possible that i could of done something to make him remember? is that possible?


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> Not to build myself a soapbox but, personally, I feel that the OP is getting bashed unecessarily. She stated all the work she put into finding the root. She talked to a farrier, a vet, a chiropractor, and a trainer. Most of the people who come here haven't done half of that, just say, "Yes, his saddle fits, and no, I don't need a trainer." Are we really a forum with a damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality? Because that's the vibe I get from this thread. Yes, the OP probably made some mistakes, but we all do. This wasn't a thread asking for a magic cure, or an OP unwilling to take advice. The OP even called someone else in when she knew she was overhorsed. I kindly suggest we all take a step back and stop ourselves from assuming every poster is a fishy troll. You know what they say about assuming things...
> 
> As far as this horse goes, I do agree time off is in order. I would probably give him a month off, and then bring a trainer in who will work with you to bring him back. Start with the trainer so that they may be able to see the trigger for your horse should he act up again and can work through it.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you  i will try to do my best but, i know that none of anything i say is a lie. but yes i will give him off he's in the pasture as we speak with his friends and i'm sure he's loving the time out.my BO says i can keep him in there as long as he needs. I will most certainly bring another trainer in after this is all said and done and i certainly hope me and my horse can work through this together.

Also thanks for trying to help  it's very much appreciated!


----------



## macktheknife (Jul 11, 2010)

leni- I'm so happy you referenced endospink!! I love watching his videos. Beau- It might be worth looking into his stuff before drawing conclusions about your trainers methods, misguided as he may be.


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Frankly it doesnt matter to me if he was abused or not. He still is NOT allowed to rear. From the sounds of it it's not abuse but a combination of being bored, over fed, and under stimulated. 

Have you tested for ulcers.


Also, Kevin is being sarcastic (Though, Im sure he would still come train your horse for $500 a day and do a **** better job than the other trainer). I can not think if a single trainer that isn't some sort of 4*, international, etc trainer that would charge $500 a day and considering he gave you the same sort of advice you could have gotten for free in 10 seconds on here and didn't actually train a horse, sounds like you got scammed. That's the point people are trying to make.


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm not actually being sarcastic. If the OP is really serious she can PM me and I will travel wherever she is. I'm not sure I believe alot of her story but I know I can fix a horse like this.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

If done safely, I have no problem personally with laying a horse down. I had never done that before (and still haven't with an adult horse) but when I was expecting my first foal, I bought the book on imprinting, and Dr. Miller basically has you do a version of this with the foal- holding him on the ground, not letting him up, and desensitizing him all over. (You are not actually laying him down, but holding him down before he stands on his own). But the result is supposed to be the same- a horse that knows you are dominant over it.

So I did that with my foal, but when he was around 1 month old he decided he would take to cow-kicking when I touched his belly. (He had good reasons as he had a navel infection after he was born and remembered being doctored. It had to have been very painful). So I got so tired of it one day that I actually took his legs out from under him and held him down and desensitized his belly area again. He has let me touch his belly ever since. 

It is not something I prefer to have done or am proud of, but I do think it worked. 

If I were you, I would have let the trainer lay the horse down, because from what I've read he doesn't respect you. 

I am one of the most emotional people out there and I frequently cry if things don't go right, so I understand and feel for you, but a 1000 lb animal MUST respect you, or you are in deep doo-doo. Safety trumps emotions. So I would have laid him down and then cried about it, but still have done it. 

A neighbor told me a tid-bit of wisdom once, and after I thought about it, I knew he was right. You want a horse that respects you first and foremost. Then after that you can make friends with it. (He told me that in response to my "Horse Wanted" ad where I said I was looking for a horse to be my best friend). I STILL want a horse to be my best friend, but you must, must, must have respect for the relationship to work. This horse sounds like he is pushing your buttons and unless you can become alpha, I don't think the relationship is going to work. :-(

I probably shouldn't mention this either, but I bought a Paint mare one time and she was so herd bound she wouldn't leave the barn. Her main method of protest was to rear. She has me so scared that I sent her to auction. I owned her two months- one month trying to "fix" her, and another trying to sell her cheap to anyone I thought could fix her. Finally I just gave up. :-(


----------



## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Exactly why I added the little bit in the parenthesis, Kevin.  Sarcastic was the wrong word.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Frankly it doesnt matter to me if he was abused or not. He still is NOT allowed to rear. From the sounds of it it's not abuse but a combination of being bored, over fed, and under stimulated.
> 
> Have you tested for ulcers.
> 
> ...


 
yeah vet checked for every thing he could think of. all the tests came back negative. my vet is even stumped. but i'm going to do what everyone has said to do.i'm going to leave him in the pasture. free choice hay. and in about a month get a trainer and start ground up. and yeah i probably did get scammed but, if i did i'm learning from it the hard way


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

My mechanic had a mare who was the meanest witch on 4 legs. She would bite, kick, rear, you name it. Just an awful awful personality. One day his vet was there giving shots. As usual the mare was doing anything in her power to make contact with him. My mechanic said at one point he went outside for about a minute, heard a huge bang and came back in to find the horse lying on the ground and the vet smiling saying, "She must have slipped". The vet never did say exactly what he did, but for the remainder of that mare's days, she stood like a statue and was sweet as pie. Point of my story is, it does sound like someone needs to have "conversation" with your horse. If my horse pinned his ears at me, he'd find himself working his *** off for the next 10 minutes. Horse's are too big to be getting away with that kind of crap. Horse's respect leadership, plain and simple. Once you get him back to work, make sure to use a trainer who will follow through on everything and will also teach you how you are always either training or untraining your horse.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> If done safely, I have no problem personally with laying a horse down. I had never done that before (and still haven't with an adult horse) but when I was expecting my first foal, I bought the book on imprinting, and Dr. Miller basically has you do a version of this with the foal- holding him on the ground, not letting him up, and desensitizing him all over. (You are not actually laying him down, but holding him down before he stands on his own). But the result is supposed to be the same- a horse that knows you are dominant over it.
> 
> So I did that with my foal, but when he was around 1 month old he decided he would take to cow-kicking when I touched his belly. (He had good reasons as he had a navel infection after he was born and remembered being doctored. It had to have been very painful). So I got so tired of it one day that I actually took his legs out from under him and held him down and desensitized his belly area again. He has let me touch his belly ever since.
> 
> ...


honestly that was the best way of putting things in perspective all night. yeah so i'm going to call someone i knwo who's broken a freakin zebra for christs sake and have him help me. good friend of mine. i trust him with all my heart and i'll help him if i have to but, i'm going to let my horse have a break before i do so.

thanks


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> Not to build myself a soapbox but, personally, I feel that the OP is getting bashed unecessarily. She stated all the work she put into finding the root. She talked to a farrier, a vet, a chiropractor, and a trainer. Most of the people who come here haven't done half of that, just say, "Yes, his saddle fits, and no, I don't need a trainer." Are we really a forum with a damned if you do, damned if you don't mentality? Because that's the vibe I get from this thread. Yes, the OP probably made some mistakes, but we all do. This wasn't a thread asking for a magic cure, or an OP unwilling to take advice. The OP even called someone else in when she knew she was overhorsed. I kindly suggest we all take a step back and stop ourselves from assuming every poster is a fishy troll. You know what they say about assuming things...
> 
> As far as this horse goes, I do agree time off is in order. I would probably give him a month off, and then bring a trainer in who will work with you to bring him back. Start with the trainer so that they may be able to see the trigger for your horse should he act up again and can work through it.
> 
> ...


You know I respect you hugely as a person, and I can definitely see where you're coming from. I tend to get that vibe at times to - just reading the OP, I was cringing with how many blasts she was going to get.

I was beyond surprised and pleased when I found the opposite, people trying to rally up and help her. I personally became outraged when everyone was doing their BEST to understand what she meant through her very poor typing and explanations, and she went on the defensive and accused people of bashing her.

I know I'm overly critical at times, but some people just set themselves up for it, despite everyone's best efforts to be civil and polite. None of her story was making sense, and when people attempted to clarify, she whipped out the accusations.

It's just not the best way to actually get some help.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

*The Tap*

Laying a horse down, as demonstrated by Endospink, is called doing the tap or tapping. It is risky both to rider and handler. Folks who try it on their own are fools. It is debatable whether or not it is beneficial or cruel. what it is NOT is about showing dominance to the horse.
The miraculous change one sees in the horse after being tapped has more to do with a physical reaction from having his head pullled sharply around and held immobile in that position. It is thought that there are nerves there that when stimulated cause a release of hormones . 
Some folks think that it taps into the horse's natural self defense system wherein when it is attacked by a preditor and is brought down and is now helpless and will deifinitely be devoured, a kind of anesthetick like hormone kicks in that causes calmness and no sensation of pain or panic so that death comes more mercifully.

As for the situation with the OP, her horse might benefit from the tap, but she might want to read up on it.


----------



## DixieLu (Nov 2, 2010)

im so expert but I have some problems with my horse (not as extreme) but all I can say is not work him hard and just sit in his paddok (what ever large space) read, feed some treats (not too many) but thats what I would do. 

And blow off the trainer. that was not professional to get in your face and yell at you. IT IS YOUR HORSE!!!!!


----------



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> Laying a horse down, as demonstrated by Endospink, is called doing the tap or tapping. It is risky both to rider and handler. Folks who try it on their own are fools. It is debatable whether or not it is beneficial or cruel. what it is NOT is about showing dominance to the horse.
> The miraculous change one sees in the horse after being tapped has more to do with a physical reaction from having his head pullled sharply around and held immobile in that position. It is thought that there are nerves there that when stimulated cause a release of hormones .
> Some folks think that it taps into the horse's natural self defense system wherein when it is attacked by a preditor and is brought down and is now helpless and will deifinitely be devoured, a kind of anesthetick like hormone kicks in that causes calmness and no sensation of pain or panic so that death comes more mercifully.
> 
> As for the situation with the OP, her horse might benefit from the tap, but she might want to read up on it.


Disagreed. It's about dominance and more importantly, trust. It's no different then using a natural horsemanship method such as join-up. Yes, it can be dangerous, and hence I reserve it only for horses who I've exhausted other avenues with. Shay-las filly was having extreme attitude problems and simply did not respect people and was reaching a dangerous point because of it. We made the decision to lay her down, although not using the "endotap" method. She fought me pretty good our first sessions and we had quite the dance - again, this requires a very swift and alert horseman to be quick on their feet.

In the end, it clicked in her brain, and she simply dropped herself, flat on her side, allowing herself to be touched all over and spoken to softly. She made NO attempt to rise until she was asked. The result? A MUCH more respectful and meek horse who developed no fear of humans, but a better trust that we could place her in such a vulnerable state and keep her safe. She has lot none of her spunk and personality and has merely developed a higher regard for humans and the understanding that she's NOT bigger then I am, and if she wants to fight, I will win.

No, it is not for everyone. No, it is not for the average horse. But it is a method I have found great success with when faced with an animal who has figured out he's 10x your size and can as he pleases. It's the gentlest, safest way I have found yet compared to beating the spirit out of him as so many try to do.


----------



## Coyote (Oct 23, 2010)

Just my point of view yet...if laying a horse down is "cruel" then so be it. That horse doesn't care if it nails you with a hoof to the head. It doesn't care if you die, all that means to them is now someone else will feed them and ride them. If you have a horse so dangerous to you or itself and it needs laying down, then heck Tough Love. The horse will get over it, and hopefully be better for it. laying it down is sure is a heck of a lot better than having to sell it at an auction to go who knows where.( Though sometimes it can't be avoided.) And I hope everyone would agree it's better than letting the horse continue to get away with dangerous behavior and ending up hurting a person.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> You know I respect you hugely as a person, and I can definitely see where you're coming from. I tend to get that vibe at times to - just reading the OP, I was cringing with how many blasts she was going to get.
> 
> I was beyond surprised and pleased when I found the opposite, people trying to rally up and help her. I personally became outraged when everyone was doing their BEST to understand what she meant through her very poor typing and explanations, and she went on the defensive and accused people of bashing her.
> 
> ...


I guess I'm too used to seeing the mountains that I didn't see the mole hills. I did not see the OP getting defensive so much as clarifying. I did understand her OP, so didn't need any of the clarification. I did see some immaturity at times, but nothing to cry home about. I guess that is the trouble with reading text.

Of course, it could also be me being a stupid female with female emotions, haha. 

On laying a horse down, I've never done it on purpose. While lunging a silly Arab without sidereins [my mistake], he took off and when he hit the end of the rope, his hind end came out from under him and he landed with a very loud crash. He was an angel on the lunge with or without sidereins ever since.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Oh, and in all seriousness. Kevin, are you really serious? Because if I run into problems with Gracie, I think you would do well with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If in fact there really is a horse and she is the owner of the horse she is the cause of the entire problem. For those of you who think this may be a little harsh I invite you to read some of her other threads. This is my favorite http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/amazing-horse-saves-me-%3D%5D-love-57074/

The horse that now strikes and rears at her only five months ago helped her to her feet after he fell while she was running him back to the barn. How can a horse lose such an amazing bond with its rider. It's like if the Black Stallion suddenly dumped Alec in the ocean. It must be her fault!


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> Oh, and in all seriousness. Kevin, are you really serious? Because if I run into problems with Gracie, I think you would do well with her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For the right price I would go anywhere.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

I honestly have to say that i didn't mean in anyway to be crude. I truly send my deepest, sincere apologies to all of you. I've had a hard day/week and this thing happening with my horse isn't making matters any better.

but, yes i am going to leave him be for a month and let him stay in the pasture on no grain, free choice hay and no work until i feel he's ready. and when i do start up with his work it's going to be from the ground up. As for tonight he's in the pasture with his friends hopefully being a good boy and i'm going to take it day by day. i'm real sure i have lost all respect from him but, once i start working with him i'm going to make sure he's knows who boss and it's not going to be him.

should i just let him be? should i atleast try and bond with him while he's in the pasture and go in a let him come to me instead of me going to him? (does that make sense?) also he has a turnout blanket on it's like medium weight blanket and should i try and get that off of him or leave it on so he's nice and comfy? Any tips you guys could give me to make this journey a tiny bit easier would be nice  Thank You


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Have you tried tickling his **** with a turkey feather? Perhaps he is just not adequately stimulated and has become bored and jaded.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Nevermind.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> If in fact there really is a horse and she is the owner of the horse she is the cause of the entire problem. For those of you who think this may be a little harsh I invite you to read some of her other threads. This is my favorite http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/amazing-horse-saves-me-=]-love-57074/
> 
> The horse that now strikes and rears at her only five months ago helped her to her feet after he fell while she was running him back to the barn. How can a horse lose such an amazing bond with its rider. It's like if the Black Stallion suddenly dumped Alec in the ocean. It must be her fault!


 
yes this is the same horse as 5 months ago and yes i agree i indeed posted that to show all of you how sweet he is. KevinsHorses i may not be perfect and i certainly don't know everything but, one thing i do know is that all horses have their days. I know someone who has a gelding and he could be the sweetest thing you have ever met and than a couple of weeks later snap and talk about someone doing stuff wrong and whoevers fault it was hers but, in my case i did nothing to him. as i said before my horse is a spoiled brat and yeah it once again could be my fault and it probably is but, if i did something wrong i really wish he's able to talk so he could tell me. Trust me he's a sweetie but boy is he having his day 

that probably didn't make sense but, i hope it did.


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I have not read every single post here, so forgive me if I repeat anything...

OP, you stated that the horse has a stall with a run, but is often left IN the barn right now, because of the mud? Make it a point to actually allow him to move around freely...he is a TB so he NEEDS alot more movement to keep his mind sound. Open his run gate, and throw away the key...there are measures you can take to prevent thrush, even if he is in a muddy paddock...you already have the main thing taken care of, with a dry stall. If he wants to get out of the mud, and wet, he will...

Second, and I know you have stated that you don't allow him to get away with things, BUT this horse has a severe problem, and that problem is a very disrespectful one...one in which you or him, or someone else CAN and WILL get hurt somewhere down the line...and probably sooner than later. If this horse was a client of mine, he would be given a serious 'come to jesus' meeting...If he wanted to rear in a stall (and mind you, I would have him a round pen to begin with), then fine, I'm going to push you away from the door, and make you move your feet...I would use a lead rope, or handystick, or whip to get him to MOVE out of my space NOW! Don't let him stand there and continue rearing up at you, MAKE HIM MOVE! 

As far as the dropping a horse to the ground, I have seen this done, and done correctly, it can help a horse realize that he is not in control...Alot of trainers will teach a horse to lay down, as it displays the most amount of trust you can gain from a horse. SO, depending on the way that they went about it, the horse may have actually learned something from the technique. The fact that you stopped the whole thing, probably did more actual harm then good, imo...the horse will likely be even more resistant to any kind of respect change, simply because he gained control of his feet before he figured out that he could trust those that were in control of them in the first place. 

I really think that this horse is WAY above your head; just because you "love him" does not mean that this is the best situation for you or him...as a trainer I have come across quite a few badly matched pairs, and I've even wound up buying some of the horses that were not a good match for their owner's level of knowledge. Love doesn't make it right for a person to continue on in a situation that could wind up killing them...sorry, just my humble opinion. Your horse needs a serious dose of respect, and you can't or don't know how to deliver it, you WILL get hurt, it's just a matter of time.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> For the right price I would go anywhere.


Oh, the things that came to mind when I read this, bwahaha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

To the OP: It really doesn't matter since all of your threads are contradictary and phony. Do you know how silly your posts sound? They are really unbelievable. I think they are entertaining and they reveal alot about the mentallity of the people that respond to them but they are a waste of time if anybody thinks they are genuinely helping anybody.


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> Oh, the things that came to mind when I read this, bwahaha!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I stand by that statement but I offer no gaurantees for services not horse related!


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

mom2pride said:


> I have not read every single post here, so forgive me if I repeat anything...
> 
> OP, you stated that the horse has a stall with a run, but is often left IN the barn right now, because of the mud? Make it a point to actually allow him to move around freely...he is a TB so he NEEDS alot more movement to keep his mind sound. Open his run gate, and throw away the key...there are measures you can take to prevent thrush, even if he is in a muddy paddock...you already have the main thing taken care of, with a dry stall. If he wants to get out of the mud, and wet, he will...
> 
> ...


 
i truly understand that just because i "love him" doesnt mean that it's the right situation for me or him. but, as i have stated before i will not give up on him. i understand what your saying though but, i tend to see it through and i'll spend millions if i have to just to get this fixed. but thank you for putting it into perspective but, no matter if he's way over my head and too much for me to handle i know we'll get through this as horse and rider and in the end he's going to be the same horse as i first met him. and yep he's out in a pasture with lots of room to stretch his legs and run.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> To the OP: It really doesn't matter since all of your threads are contradictary and phony. Do you know how silly your posts sound? They are really unbelievable. I think they are entertaining and they reveal alot about the mentallity of the people that respond to them but they are a waste of time if anybody thinks they are genuinely helping anybody.


 
sorry but all my posts are indeed real. nothing i write is phony. i'm sorry you think that


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> Have you tried tickling his **** with a turkey feather? Perhaps he is just not adequately stimulated and has become bored and jaded.



****! 




beauforever23 said:


> and i'll spend millions if i have to just to get this fixed.


Millions huh? 
Please stop spending your money on treats, and you will have more to spend on his retraining.


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

AlexS said:


> Millions huh?
> Please stop spending your money on treats, and you will have more to spend on his retraining.


And feathers. Lots and lots of feathers.


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I'm thinking it may take more than a feather to light a fire under this horse's tail...


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Perhaps the OP could take her poneh with her to a psychiatrist and they could both get help.


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> And feathers. Lots and lots of feathers.



I just made you an AMAZING offer in the PP paste eating thread about this! I will even provide the feathers! :lol: LOL.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> I stand by that statement but I offer no gaurantees for services not horse related!


Oh my! ::blush:: I shall ponder this for awhile and get back to you. ;P
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Beauforever23:

I think most of everyone's issue here in this post is you say you are 20 years old but:

1) In some of your posts, you lack the ability to type in complete sentences/paragraphs, with any capitalization, or even attempt to spell things correctly. Not to mention, you like the CAPS button and !!!exclaimation!!! points. (I'm sorry. But when I can't even comfortably read someone's reply or post, it really bothers me and screams immaturity.)

2) You are way too emotional. I don't think my nerves or blood pressure could handle going from thinking "my ponayy is cutee" to having the most upsetting day in my life within 24 hours.

3) You keep calling yourself a trainer yet you are making huge training mistakes that most people who do not call themselves trainers, don't even make. It is common sense to how you reward or punish a horse for behavior.

4) And not to mention the huge inconsistencies in your story. These are just the obvious ones:



> So my horse has decided over the past week that it is okay to rear to get out of work and it has become dangerous.


But then -->



> i'm sorry for being confusing in my post but, its been way over a week that it's been happening.


...or is it....



> if you would read what i wrote you'd see that it was a couple of weeks i dealt with it. and i couldn't deal wiith it so i hired a trainer to come in


So has it been _this_ past week or the last _couple_ weeks?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> i just couldn't take it and i'm not going to deal with it. he does it with everything if i put him on the cross ties he rears, if i'm putting him on the lunge line he rears, trying to tack him he rears, etc... EVERYTHINGGG..


and later.....



> I don't let him get away with anything. I use natural horsemanship but, i'm stern with him.


You don't let him get away with anything? Sounds like you've been allowing him to rear this whole time, not to mention rewarding him for blatantly disrespecting you by giving him treats for pinning his ears at you:



> he came back over to me though and let me give his nose a hug but than pinned his ears back. i gave him his treats and he ran off. i'd honestly rather deal with him pinning his ears back but, i'll try and just bond with him over the week that he's hanging in the pasture.


Sorry, but no "bonding" is going to occur between a horse that clearly doesn't respect you. Pinning his ears is the way the alpha leader in the herd gets _his_ way by force.



> He reached his nose out and grabbed the treat and walked away.


Exactly as I said. Do you think this is bonding? Your horse is walking circles all over your face, leaving the hoof prints behind him.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> does it with everything if i put him on the cross ties he rears, if i'm putting him on the lunge line he rears, trying to tack him he rears, etc... EVERYTHINGGG..


He probably does do it for everything because you give him a treat every single time he takes a breath. You are rewarding him for rearing. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> I paid thousands for a professional trainer to come in and check but, he said there was nothing he could do and to just check him for lameness, soreness, etc...


You paid thousands for the trainer to _tell you_ he couldn't do anything? Wow, I'd love that job. 


Didn't the trainer _physically do anything_ with him? Or did he just tell you he can't do anything?

Mind you, you said you paid thousands for this trainer to "tell you" he can't do anything _before_ you called him this morning. And why would he even come today when he already told you earlier that there's nothing he can do?

Doesn't make sense. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> than of course the trainer yelled in my face telling me that i was wrong telling them to stop because now it's just going to get worse which is total bull crap.


Your trainer is right, and your method of thinking is "bull crap". You claim you are a trainer? If you are training a horse to do something and you stop half-way through the lesson and quit, what exactly did the horse learn? Nothing. In fact, you rewarded him for an incorrect response. 

So stopping your trainer when he was trying to teach your horse a lesson about his dangerous disrespectful behavior _is indeed_ going to make your problem _worse._ 



> I cursed the trainer out this morning and told him how much of an ahole he was b/c i didn't like what was done.


but then....



> and to let you know the trainer yelled on the top of his lungs out at me. he HAD IT COMING and i did NOT throw a temper tantrum i simply stated the facts!!


Cursing the trainer out (your own words) sounds like a temper tantrum from a 20-year-old to me. Which you admit yourself just a mere three or four sentences later:



> and by the way after i cursed out the trainer i felt like crap and felt remorse for being such a b*tch. and i'm most likely going to call the man tomorrow and apologize so me and him don't leave off on horrible terms.


I think you were wrong to freak out, scream "stop" at the top of your lungs, and cry about something the trainer was trying to do that you clearly don't understand. You said earlier that you thought your horse's leg was going to break during this ordeal. Although I didn't see the set up, I really doubt that a 200 pound man (let's say) can break the leg of a 1200 pound animal with his bare hands and maybe a rope. 

Again, that emotion of your is severely clouding your judgement. 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> I'm very cool and calm to everyone's statement.


Please note that this statement was embedded in a huge paragraph with poor capitalization, no breaks in the paragraph, CAPS everywhere, and tons of emotion. Not exactly "cool and calm".


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> was i wrong to tell them to stop?





> I know i did the right thing but, i'm so confused


Clearly, you've made up your mind in the original post before we even had a chance to tell you that yes you were wrong to tell them to stop. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




> i'm real sure i have lost all respect from him but, once i start working with him i'm going to make sure he's knows who boss and it's not going to be him.


I sounds like you have never had any respect from him to begin with. How can you lose it?




> should i just let him be? should i atleast try and bond with him while he's in the pasture and go in a let him come to me instead of me going to him?


Well are you going to be "the boss" or try to "bond" with him (as in he pins his ears, you give him a treat, he walks away)?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




> if i did something wrong i really wish he's able to talk so he could tell me.


Horses do talk. You just aren't listening. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> i'm just praying that he knocks it off and realizes i'm not going to hurt him..


I highly doubt he thinks you are going to hurt him (remember that _he_ is the one wearing the pants in this relationship).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I'm only 24 years old. Maybe 4 years makes a difference... 

But I think you need to take some time and re-evaulate yourself and your methods as a so-called trainer. Because what you are saying and what you are doing is jumping up and down with a flashing red sign.

Am I am big super-star trainer to the world champions? Heck no. Yes, I have trained many horses from scratch for people (getting paid) and for myself. And yes I have dealt with problem horses. Do I call myself a "trainer"? No, not really. I feel as though I am no different than the average horseperson who wants to do what is best for their horses, who never stops learning, who tries to treat every situation with a level head, who keeps their emotions out of their judgement, and who can smell a fishy story when they read one. 

I do applaud you for making sure pain was not the issue for your horse with the vet, chiro, and farrier. But beyond that step, you haven't done much of anything right in this situation. 

So that's why myself and many others are led to believe you are making most of this up. Things just do not make sense. Re-read all your own posts if you think I made anything up, because I guarantee you every word I just quoted is there plain as daylight.


----------



## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

^ dangggg. :clap:


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

beauforever23 said:


> i truly understand that just because i "love him" doesnt mean that it's the right situation for me or him. but, as i have stated before i will not give up on him. i understand what your saying though but, i tend to see it through and i'll spend millions if i have to just to get this fixed. but thank you for putting it into perspective but, no matter if he's way over my head and too much for me to handle i know we'll get through this as horse and rider and in the end he's going to be the same horse as i first met him. and yep he's out in a pasture with lots of room to stretch his legs and run.


How do you know you will work it through? The way I see it, is that he is going to hurt you or someone else, and he will wind up one of thousands of unwanted horses because someone was too stubborn to admit that they were the wrong person for that particular horse...atleast the way it is going now. You need help with him, and he doesn't need a "time out" he needs training, and so do you...find someone who is willing to work with you and the horse, or you may not live to own another horse if his behavior keeps escalating.


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Very thorough post Beau. I agree with about everything that you said. 


However, I might freak out at the idea of laying my horse down, (not that he would ever need it) but more because I have been around horses all my life, I am 34, and I have never heard of it before this thread. I have been limited though, as I have only my own experience and only started using the internet for horse discussions lately. However, I would expect a true horse person to recognize this, so I think her trainer should have explained the possibility first. My trainer would have given me a heads up, and explained the reasons for doing it first. A good trainer should have done that.


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

AlexS said:


> However, I might freak out at the idea of laying my horse down, (not that he would ever need it) but more because I have been around horses all my life, I am 34, and I have never heard of it before this thread. I have been limited though, as I have only my own experience and only started using the internet for horse discussions lately. However, I would expect a true horse person to recognize this, so I think her trainer should have explained the possibility first. My trainer would have given me a heads up, and explained the reasons for doing it first. A good trainer should have done that.


I see your point on that. I do agree that a good trainer explains what, why, and when they do certain things so that the owner can understand and learn. But I doubt that you would have started screaming and freaking out at your trainer. I am sure you would be worried if you did not understand what was going on, and rightfully so, but you would have trusted your trainer since he or she has more knowledge and experience than you.

However, because of the inconsistencies in her story, it makes the trainer sound like he didn't do a thing except say "yup, it's hopeless" and then all of a sudden show up this morning and try to force the horse to lay down. So of course, I am really doubting this is what truly happened. 

I do believe that it would be possible for the trainer to make a split second decision and realize that he needs to lay this horse down right _*now*_ in order to teach him. As we all know (well, most of us anyway), training a horse is 100% dynamic and the course of your training is affected by the horse's reactions. If that was the case, the trainer would miss his training opportunity if he stopped to explain why he was going to lay the horse down at that precise moment, instead of capitalizing on the training moment. 

But yes, he very well should have warned her ahead of time when he got there that one of his training methods may resort to asking the horse to lay down. 

But then again.... this is a trainer that gets paid thousands of dollars just to tell someone they can't do anything for their horse. :lol:


----------



## MelissaF (Nov 5, 2010)

Hello,
I think you need to find a new trainer. Telling you that there's nothing he can do, but to just pull him over is not the way to go. I've never had to deal with a horse that rears like that, but it sounds like he has your number and knows your intimidated and is just being a bully. I'm not saying to put you down, I've had horses that had my number too. It happens to everyone.


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

beau159 said:


> Beauforever23:
> 
> I think most of everyone's issue here in this post is you say you are 20 years old but:
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to do that - I did notice the things you pointed out but was too lazy to go through and quote them all  
I love how stories change while the OP furiously backpedals :lol:
Interesting that although a trainer, she has stated in her 'amazing horse saves me...!! =] love mii ponayy' thread, that she continued to lose her seat and fall off on a number of horses... good trainer :-|

OP, sorry mate, but come off it. You'll get more respect from members if you give the real story and not an exaggerated, emotional and entirely ridiculous version of events. Your thread about loving your 'ponayy' because it saved you showed you up as a little kid, not a 20 year old, experienced 'trainer'. Sorry, but when you say:



> Let me tell you before he flipped. I saw him put his front legs in front of him and tried so hard not too.. Like he knew I was going to get hurt and he was doing everything possible to have it not happen. HE WAS PROTECTING ME! Anyway, i wrapped my hands around his neck and he pulled me up! Right off the floor! I hopped to the front of his face and patted him on the neck and cried so hard and thanked him for protecting me. A normal horse wouldn't do that!
> 
> Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/amazing-horse-saves-me-=]-love-57074/#ixzz14rXDUYOf


.. it's a little hard to take you seriously, particularly with you preaching yourself as a trainer and experienced horse person. Number one, that horse was saving his own skin by trying to stop himself falling. A horse will put itself well before you when it comes to a situation that it may get injured. While tripping, your horse wasn't thinking 'I MUST save my owner/rider!' it was saving it's own neck by trying to break its fall. He was doing everything possible for it not to happen - so he didn't get hurt, you would not have even crossed his mind. 
If your "abnormal" horse (as you said, he's not a normal horse because he protected you) stuck his legs out and tried to break his fall, I'm surprised more horses don't kill themselves falling because clearly they don't try to keep themselves upright!! Must be pretty silly creatures :wink:

Mate, it's a romantic little tale, maybe you could be a writer? As kids we all want our own 'Black Stallion' to protect us and get us out of a heap of amazing and adventurous dangers... but the reality is so very different to the story books, unfortunately!


This rearing problem, get yourself a different trainer. Kevin has made you a FANTASTIC offer to come and help you out, and I have no doubt that he could 'fix' this problem. You said you'll do anything to get him sorted out because you love him so much, yet when a good offer is given to you, you have turned it down saying you're not going to bother with a trainer now? But I thought you said you'd spend millions on him - I don't understand your reasoning :?
I do very much agree with other posters, that your story is very 'interesting' and difficult to pieces together, but either way if you have a horse with a chronic rearing problem that you can't deal with on your own, get a good trainer to fix it for you/sell the horse to someone who CAN fix the problem - obviously writing out a letter stating the horses problems and having both parties sign it before sale/or dog the ****** because he's dangerous. There's plenty of good horses in the world that would suit you just fine without putting up with such dangerous behaviour, and if you're determined not to sell or get another trainer, then I'm afraid to say but it sounds like it'll have to be either you or the horse who goes first.


----------



## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

I read some of her posts on other threads and ... well ... I read things like "I screamed" and "I cried" and it just puts her off as a *bit* dramatic. Oh and also - she tells a tear-jerking story about how strong her horse's bond is to her. This thread is contradictory... I don't know what to believe, honestly...


----------



## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

You know, being new to this forum and having seen a few grilling sessions (for want of a better term) I was shocked when I first started reading this one. I didn't think to go back and look for other posts and threads with the OP's name on them. (I was originally indignant for the OP. I felt sorry for her and still do to an extent. It isn't easy to admit OMG I screwed up my beloved poneh. I have however read this entire thread.)
Since the one lady was nice enough to do the work for the rest of us, well I read it all. It isn't pretty. While I have no doubt that you have a problem on your hands, I can't think anything but that the you are responsible for the majority of said problems. If not through direct action, then by inaction when the problems first started.
OP take the advice freely and plainly given....
1. Trainer...NOW...not after a month off. I mean for yourself and this poor horse. Use this month with a trainer for YOU, not the animal. He is fine out having a hoorah with his buds and just being a horse.
2. STOP TREATS NOW!!! He doesn't come to you 'cause he loves you so much. He comes for the goody bag. Are you nothing more than a goody bag?
3. Take this horse down SOON. If you don't let someone take him down he is going to take you or someone else Out. The link to the Tap shown by Endospink is not cruel. It is one of the more humane training methods for a disrespectful horse. He has no choice but to submit. This is a TB. He has a very active mind and mindset. It generally takes less time for his breed to process information, so a split second decision will have to be made for each behavior. This won't be a quick fix.
4. You will have to be consistent and firm with this boy. He is about 1200 or so pounds of fight or flight, which do you want first?
5. I saw mention of a Sunday lease situation? Are you serious? You are leasing a dangerous animal one day a week? Do you want a law suit? Do you want him destroyed because he is dangerous? Trust me if he hurts someone and is deemed dangerous the decision of what to do with him will be taken out of your hands by the court system. Terminate the lease immediately! Do you want someones child injured? A horse like this is begging to injure or kill an innocent bystander. Can you live with that on your conscience?
6. While I am sure you love him and don't want to give up on him, you turn around and mention selling him if you can't correct the problem. WTF is that about? Sell your problem to someone else? Again, do you want sued? 
I know folks in my neck of the woods who would purchase your horse, for about 200$ if that. Then you don't want to know where he'd wind up because he is a "problem" horse. Don't ask how some of the idiots of the world train deer and bear dogs to take down prey.
7. It's real easy to sit on this pc and play judge, jury, and executioner. I do hope that isn't how this comes across, but then again, I hope something shocks you enough to wake up and realize this isn't gonna be cured by just a month in the pasture. 
IF it is as bad as you say, it's a long process. There are no quick and easy fixes. It's going to take patience and a HUGE commitment. If you don't have both, do this animal a favor and have him put down. Don't sell him off to God only knows who and what kind of situation. At least if you do get rid of him make sure he goes to a knowledgeable home even if it means giving him away. You won't be doing him any favors by just running him through an auction somewhere. 
I do feel really sorry for you. I feel even worse for your horse. I do commend you for the farrier, vet, and chiro checks. I do commend you for turning this boy out to work off some of whatever is building inside his horsey brain. I do commend you for at least posting on this forum for help. 
That being said, do yourself and us a favor, do what is right and in this horses best interest. READ, read, read, and read some more. Talk to every trainer in your area if need be. Take Kevin up on his offer. 
Read the posts again. Do everything in your power to help this animal. He is obviously hurt/confused/messed up in his brain right now. Don't make it worse by being emotional. He doesn't understand human emotion the way it seems you think he does. He is looking for his meal. When his meal has to be earned with respect and hard work, Then maybe you can work on gaining affection from him.
I am 41 years old. I have ridden, trained, and owned several "problem" horses in my time. One put me in the hospital, broke me in places I never knew I could break. You know why?? Because, I was an idiot! I didn't think I needed anyone to tell me jack**** about my horse. I knew everything. Well almost, I didn't realize a ORS wasn't a good idea when you have a backing up and rearing horse, cause my not so smart instructor/trainer thought it was a good idea. 
After a year in the pasture while I got well, we found a no nonsense trainer who very quickly gave my mare a meet your maker or submit to me moment. (Ok, there were several of those moments.) I was devastated that he'd do the things he did to my darling mare. Right up the next morning when she greeted him at the gate with a whole nother attitude. Came right up to him like he was God, and she willingly worked her *** off for him that day. 
It's hard, and it's hurtful to see them forced to submit. But it's a lot worse to see them put down because they injure or kill someone. Of course, if you don't get good help, YOU might not be there to see it. YOU might be the one she injures or kills!


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

Ok. First off everything i write makes perfect sense to me it might not to you guys but, that's your problem plus my computer has issues and it's super slow so sometimes it freezes and well you get the point.

Yeah i like to use caps alot and i like the exclamation point i don't see what the big deal with that is. If you don't like it than move on end of freaking story. I'm not here to please you. Don't like it? Too friggen bad. Okay so not that we are clear on that time to move on to what kevinshorses said.

Maybe i should take me and my horse to a physciatrist and we should both get help? Why don't you take your head out of your friggen *** and stop being such a friggen moron. How does that sound? Sounds pretty friggen good to me jack ***.

Now about the trainer i had come in. He was not my trainer just some trainer I hired because i was told he was the best. My trainer lives in Georgia so she is definitely not going to come up here and help. And no i don't buy the treats my friend Meghan makes them and gives them to me to give to my horse and if i'm wrong by doing that well than friggen bite my ***. I'm sorry for being so rude but, a whole bunch of you are asking for it and you all know who you are so keep it coming because i've just about had it. I'm not a mean person but, when it comes down to things like this i'll defend myself.

Yeah i'll go get feathers sure. Where the hell would you like me to find feathers? Oh wait, hold on, i'll just go down to the friggen zoo and pluck some off of the ducks there. While i'm at it why don't i get a friggen lion tamer to train my horse since they are so **** good at what they do. How does that sound you inconsiderate jerk.

yeah i'd spend millions on my horse. that's because i love him and will do anything for him unlike other people who i know "oh my horse is skinny because of old age" or here's another good one i've seen an awful lot "should i call a vet my horse is bleeding and got cut" and for crying out loud "i can't afford a trainer" like the girl i know down the block for me came to me the other day "do you think i should call a vet my dad says my horse may be colicing" oh yeah but, i'm the ******* because i made the wrong move by calling a vet in and a friggen chiropractor and oh yeah the farrier while i was at it. Oh yeah i'm the bad person mhm.

yeah i'm emotional. oh whoops sorry excuse me for having feelings. and no i know how to reward for good behavior and punish for bad behavior. I'm just not cruel like other people and i don't want my horse to hate my guts. I do things differently and if you don't like it well than keep moving lady. and yeah i frigged up in a whole ton of my posts but, if you were up for the past 48 hrs you'd be all screwy too. I'm an ansomniac i don't get much sleep i'm lucky if i even get a half hour of sleep a night. No i don't let him get away with rearing if i'm on him i let him calm down and i circle him. If you don't know the way i train than don't talk. I don't believe in hitting, using a crop, using spurs, etc... And i'm sorry but, i don't run like a frightened little girl at ear pinning i'll stand my ground so he knows like "okay i guess she's not afraid of me time to quit it" and when he relaxes and stops pinning his ears back i pat him on the neck nice and gently and pet him so he knows "hey she's not so bad" and than he gets his treat. I don't know how you train your horses but, that's my way and my BO has been helping me an awful lot too and the BO tells me i'm doing a great job. By the way he has been riding his whole life so he knows exactly what he's talking about. NO i'm not rewarding him for rearing. I reward him when he does something good that i want him to do. For instance while the trainer was there he reared up on the cross ties than he came down and had a breather and did it again and when he came down we took him off the cross ties and asked him to back up a few steps and he did so i gave him a pat on the neck and that was his reward. He kept doing it with the saddling too. I put the saddle pad on his back and up he went he came down and we continued to do the same thing as last time and than he let me saddle him. Yes the trainer actually physically worked with him and it seemed nothing was helping. He did lunge work, long lining, used a sursingle, round pen and the rearing persisted. That's when he had the idea of bringing him on trail into an open field and try working with him somewhere besides the ring and brought the lunge line with us and tried seeing if maybe an open field where he can let it all out would maybe help but, that did absolutely nothing. But, i didn't feel like writing it all because i was cooking dinner and trying to do homework at the same time and well you get the point. Thats when the trainer insisted we go to the extremes but, he did not just try and lay the horse down calmly and i wasn't crying in histerics i was tearing and i also wasn't screaming on the top of my lungs. If you were there you would have seen what happened. The horse was ovbiously petrified running in circles trying everything possible to get away and he was like pulling him sideways and crap to try to get him down. I would have let him do what he needed to do if he was calmly trying to lay the horse down but jeezes. No hell friggen no i had respect from that horse a whole crap load of respect and i have no idea what the hell happened. You didn't understand me there either. I intend to be the boss or alpha and show dominance over him but i also wanna bond with him to show him that i'm there to help and not hurt him.

Mom2pride - I know we'll work this out between me and him because i know deep down in my heart that my horse and me still have that bond somewhere and i know he knows it too. and no he's not going to end up anywhere but, where he is right now. and like i said previously i'll admit to mistakes and maybe it was something i did. I intend to work with another trainer i just want to give my horse some time to relax he's not getting a "time out." Thanks for your concern and advice but, i've been put through much worse and i nor him or anyone else for that matter will be hurt. At the end of this everyone will come out just fine. 

I lost my seat because he tripped and yeah i've fell countless of times but, that's because i also have very bad balance. I'm 100% sure all of you have gone through falls. and i'm telling 100% of the truth but, once again if you don't believe it than move on and ya'll keep trash talking me. No i'm sorry but, it's not a romantic little fairy tale. It really did happen so excuse me for having the almost "perfect" horse. and yeah kevin made a very fantasic offer you are most certainly right but, i don't know anyone who knows him or if he has refrences, etc... and ovbisously you guys are blind because i said clearly i am bringing in another trainer. The horse isn't going anywhere!! Stop telling me i should sell him.

As far as my lease goes. The leaser whom i have leasing him right now knows **** well not to step in the middle of things right now. He is a sunday rider but, ever since the rearing has started he hasn't ridden my horse. I didn't say that now did i. No. So the leaser is not getting hurt either. My BO is actually leasing out her horse to him whilst this is going on and i'm very grateful at that. I handed over the money that the leaser gave to me to lease my horse to my BO and he even said i didn't have to give him the lease money that he was just helping me out. so yeah the leaser is safe and he's now riding a bombproof quarter horse until my horse is "fixed". First of all if i had to sell him i'd check all refrences and made sure if they sold him cause he was a "problem" horse i got first dibs but, he's staying because i said so and thats that! but, if the situation would ever get that bad that i had to sell him i'd send him to a well known rescue so that they would be able to retrain him and find him a good home but, once again that's not happening and he's staying with me!! And if i didn't have the commitment do you really think he'd be here right now? or do you really think i would have spent thousands on vet,farrier,chiro and a trainer? I don't know many horse owners who would do that do you? NO!! Because other horse owners would be like "oh to bad" and off to auction without even giving it a second thought. sorry but, my guy has been put through hell and back. I took days off of school and told them i was sick so i can try and help him both myself through this.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

This is off topic but, i'm going to do it anyway. You guys might be looking at this comment and saying oh she's attacking us. blah, blah, blah.. but, here's where i'm coming from. and no i'm not trying to get you guys to feel sorry for me

I'm an ansomniac have been ever since my rape started and by my stepfather. He raped me from ages 7-18 and i still cry every **** day of my life because i loved that man like he was my real father and when i realized what he was doing to me it was too late. He threatened my family, lied to them when he was confronted, i watched him hit my mother and he even threw me into a wall unit because i told him i wanted to watch tv and that i'd do my homework later. I missed my 15th birthday because of him. Justice was finally served he's in jail. oh yeah than my biological father is in jail for murder and lying to the cops. my mom is a drugie. and my uncle is a drunk. so um yeah i'm the last one to be the one lying. i'm nothing like my family and never will be. you could ask anyone in my family the only time i've lied is when i cheated on a test in school than again who here hasn't. I dropped out of high school twice and i just re-enrolled back in september and i was so lucky they let me back. yes i'm 20 years old i have a lot to learn but, i've also been put through hell and i defend myself. horses are my passion. been riding ever since i was old enough to have my first pony ride. thats why i know me and my horses' bond is real. not because i love him it's because i know what we have is special and i know we'll get through it. i've even been put in the hospital countless times for trying to hurt myself. my horse and school is what is making me sane and at times its rough like now but, i'm going to see it through no matter how bad the situation gets. 

so please i'm not asking you to take pity or anything but, just have a little faith in me and this horse b/c me and my horse are going to go down in history one day.


----------



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Mate, come on, honestly. There is no need to be calling people "friggen moron", "jack ***", "inconsiderate jerk" etc. etc. etc. 
Maybe put yourself in the shoes of everybody else on this forum, looking in reading your posts. You have gone in multiple circles with your story as a poster above demonstrated by quoting some of your responses. You have maintained that you're a mature 20 year old with a calm temperament, yet continue to fly off the rails each time someone points out the flaws in your 'story', you have thrown offers of help back into the faces of those who have offered it, and you have now stooped to the level of screaming immature insults at all who have replied to your posts. 
Yes, I understand you have your issues, don't we all? I am going through a hell of a rough time at the moment but do you see me abusing everyone who comments on a post? No you don't, because even though some responses may irritate me, I can control my temper and emotions without feeling the urge to hurl as many names as I can come up with at other members. Being unable to control your temper wins you no friends, both on the internet and the 'real world'. I just hope you are a little more level headed than what you are displaying on this forum, in 'real life' as I would be quite worried about your reactions to things not going your way with horses. 

All you are doing is digging yourself further and further into a hole, and wither each insult you throw, you appear a year younger. I currently put you at about 13 years of age in your maturity level when it comes to responding to posts that don't tell you what you want to hear.

Maybe take a bit of time out from this post, or the forum, sleep on it, and come back feeling hopefully refreshed with a clear brain, rather than one clouded with anger that you have clearly worked yourself into.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

beauforever23 said:


> Ok. First off everything i write makes perfect sense to me it might not to you guys but, that's your problem


Interesting point of view for someone who is trying to get advice from the very people she is telling it is their problem that they do not understand her posts.




kevinshorses said:


> I think this whole thing is made up. The OP is either a fool or a troll and quite possibly both.





kevinshorses said:


> If in fact there really is a horse and she is the owner of the horse she is the cause of the entire problem. For those of you who think this may be a little harsh I invite you to read some of her other threads.





kevinshorses said:


> To the OP: It really doesn't matter since all of your threads are contradictary and phony. Do you know how silly your posts sound? They are really unbelievable. I think they are entertaining and they reveal alot about the mentallity of the people that respond to them but they are a waste of time if anybody thinks they are genuinely helping anybody.


Two thumbs up to Kevin!



kevinshorses said:


> For the right price I would go anywhere.


Nice to know.....smirk.



*Beau159*, thank you for that wondeful post. Thank you for pointing it all out.


*
Beauforever23*, I am sorry if your life has not been perfect but really, are you going to play the "I was raped and my life is horrible so you have to be nice to me" card?

If you want real advice try posting in a manner that others can understand and giving up the name calling and saying it is our fault we do not understand. Stop posting completely apposing threads one right after another, etc.

Give up the drama and people will be glad to help with real problems.

For the record, I would guess your trainer in Georgia would gladly come up and train your horse for you for the $500/day you say you are paying.
I do not know too many trainers who would turn that down.


----------



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Really? Who cares if this person is making up stories. What if there is someone that really has this problem? Now they have to scroll through 10 pages of nonsense to get an answer. Don't people have better things to than make up stories or play detective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

Ok, I just read though a whole lot of posts just to see if anyone followed up on this. If I missed it, I apologize. What kind of tests did your vet run? There is no test that can be done for ulcers that's effective, other than scoping, which done correctly, can only be done in the clinic, under sedation. I delt with ulcers, minor chronic colic and other digestive issues for the last 8 months. On his bad days, Danny would buck, refuse to move, or kick at me the minute I entered his stall. I'm not saying that this is not a training issue, but I doubt your vet did anything that can really rule out ulcers. From the description of his daily living situation (not a lot of turnout room, feeding grain) for a TB, this is a strong possibility.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> Really? Who cares if this person is making up stories.
> 
> Don't people have better things to than make up stories or play detective.


Because ErikaLynn, lying is* wrong*. That's something everyone should have learned at oh, the age of 3 y/o or so. Didn't you?

Seriously, you think someone who makes up stories,* LIES* to a group of concerned people and wastes their time, should be patted on the head and allowed to continue to play as if they're a good, contributing member of the BB? Your values are skewed, to say the least.

The OP's _other_ stories on different threads don't jive with each other or this one. I find that highly suspect.

If someone's a lying troll, then they need to be outed. Period.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Okay. NOW the OP is coming off like a child stomping it's feet because it didn't get a cookie. It makes me so sad that so many people my age are like this, it gives the rest of us a bad name. Poo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Because ErikaLynn, lying is* wrong*. That's something everyone should have learned at oh, the age of 3 y/o or so. Didn't you?
> 
> Seriously, you think someone who makes up stories,* LIES* to a group of concerned people and wastes their time, should be patted on the head and allowed to continue to play as if they're a good, contributing member of the BB? Your values are skewed, to say the least.
> 
> ...


I just think people need to get hobbies instead of making up stories and then have like 10 people call them out on it. Do people really have that dull of lives to do either of the two? Plus you don't even know the person, does it really hurt you that much to have someone you don't know lie to you? I mean, if this person is lying, I fell for it, but I'm not going to hunt through the whole forum and try to be a CSI agent just so I can call them out on it. It's lame. 

I'm not just trying to pin point you, I'm talking about everyone that went and hunted around the forum just to call them out. I just don't understand, if you think someone is being a liar why even bother reading or commenting on their post?


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> I just don't understand, if you think someone is being a liar why even bother reading or commenting on their post?


Entertainment!!


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

ErikaLynn said:


> I just think people need to get hobbies instead of making up stories and then have like 10 people call them out on it. Do people really have that dull of lives to do either of the two? Plus you don't even know the person, does it really hurt you that much to have someone you don't know lie to you? I mean, if this person is lying, I fell for it, but I'm not going to hunt through the whole forum and try to be a CSI agent just so I can call them out on it. It's lame.


I will respond since I was the first person to tell her things were not adding up.

If she gets folks to believe her *poor me* story - where does it stop? Internet scamming is a very real crime. All of those folks started somewhere because someone believed them and made them feel empowered enough to continue.

Personally watched a former boarder suck people into a very dramatic tale. Ended with police at her door.


----------



## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

ErikaLynn said:


> I just think people need to get hobbies instead of making up stories and then have like 10 people call them out on it. Do people really have that dull of lives to do either of the two? Plus you don't even know the person, does it really hurt you that much to have someone you don't know lie to you? I mean, if this person is lying, I fell for it, but I'm not going to hunt through the whole forum and try to be a CSI agent just so I can call them out on it. It's lame.
> 
> I'm not just trying to pin point you, I'm talking about everyone that went and hunted around the forum just to call them out. I just don't understand, if you think someone is being a liar why even bother reading or commenting on their post?


I agree with you ErikaLynn. Just wanted to say that, ive read this whole thread and who gives a rats behind if she is lying, just dont repsond. She will be the one that looks like an idiot for making up obscure stories.

but as far as being mature goes, how mature does it make the people that keep going on and on about this...not very mature in my opinion. I think we should give it up and stop repsonding.


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Regan7312 said:


> I agree with you ErikaLynn. Just wanted to say that, ive read this whole thread and who gives a rats *** if she is lying, just dont repsond. She will be the one that looks like an idiot for making up obscure stories.


How many people were sucked into her story and really tried to help? It irritates me when anybody lies so outragously and then expects me to believe it. They think that everybody is stupid enough to fall for thier fantasies. Playing along with them just gets them more detatched from reality and doesn't help them at all. You may think that calling her out on this is cruel or mean but it is far kinder than just playing along. I truely think this young woman has severe mental issues and I wish there was some way I could help her get the help she needs but due to the anonimity of a BB all I can do is take some of the fun out of it for her. Maybe she will show this to someone that can help her.


----------



## Pizmo (May 30, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> Entertainment!!


Agreed  this thread, like many others is entertaining.

I actually like people getting called out.

It might make them think twice next time they try To pull the wool over someones eyes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> How many people were sucked into her story and really tried to help? It irritates me when anybody lies so outragously and then expects me to believe it. They think that everybody is stupid enough to fall for thier fantasies. Playing along with them just gets them more detatched from reality and doesn't help them at all. You may think that calling her out on this is cruel or mean but it is far kinder than just playing along. I truely think this young woman has severe mental issues and I wish there was some way I could help her get the help she needs but due to the anonimity of a BB all I can do is take some of the fun out of it for her. Maybe she will show this to someone that can help her.



I fell for it and I tried to help. But if I knew from the get go that it was a lie I would not waste my time and call her out on it. I have more important things to do than hunt around a forum just to call someone out on a lie, especially a person I don't know. and I don't think calling her out is mean, I think it's lame.


----------



## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

I dont think calling her out once or twice on it is cruel or mean but going on for 11 pages is a little much.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

ErikaLynn said:


> I fell for it and I tried to help. But if I knew from the get go that it was a lie I would not waste my time and call her out on it. I have more important things to do than hunt around a forum just to call someone out on a lie, especially a person I don't know. and I don't think calling her out is mean, I think it's lame.


Who is hunting around? Her story time line did not track. I read it several times thinking I was missing something. 

Lame? So we should let innocent, gullible newbies get sucked into believing gross exaggerations?

No wonder so many non horse people dislike us!


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Regan7312 said:


> I dont think calling her out once or twice on it is cruel or mean but going on for 11 pages is a little much.


There are 11 pages of her having a tantrum at any advice that is given to her, not 11 pages of people calling her out.

:wink:


----------



## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

my computer is being so retarted and not showing any of the new posts..errr..unless i post. lol. 

and you have a point Always, as usual : p.


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Interesting point of view for someone who is trying to get advice from the very people she is telling it is their problem that they do not understand her posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with her responding to the rude posts and sticking up for herself. Maybe her sharing her background is her way of explaining why she is emotional. I didn't see it as playing the rape card and asking people to be nice to her. People that have had problems tend to bond more with animals because people have hurt them. You seem to get a kick out of knocking vunerable people down.


----------



## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Even assuming that the entire story wasn't just a fantasy, the OP's new course of action boils down to just this. Horse rears so OP will be intimidated and leave him alone. Now OP is going to leave him alone for a month or more. Horse-1 OP-0. Horse wins, got exactly what he wanted. In what world will that ever fix the behavior? What he needs is to have the snot worked out of him, and by someone who knows how, every time he shows his butt. But since I'm not buying what the OP is selling, guess it's a moot point, huh?


----------



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

mls said:


> Who is hunting around? Her story time line did not track. I read it several times thinking I was missing something.
> 
> Lame? So we should let innocent, gullible newbies get sucked into believing gross exaggerations?
> 
> No wonder so many non horse people dislike us!



Ok, just get over it now


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Interesting point of view for someone who is trying to get advice from the very people she is telling it is their problem that they do not understand her posts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


okay i don't play the i was raped be nice to me card. i was just telling my story to let you guys know why i'm a *****. and i called my trainer in Georgia she has a family she is not going to race over here


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Entertainment!!


For someone that is always so busy breaking and riding horses you sure are on the internet alot. If I rode as much as you say you do I wouldn't be on the internet all hours of the day and night looking for entertainment.


----------



## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

churumbeque said:


> There is nothing wrong with her responding to the rude posts and sticking up for herself. Maybe her sharing her background is her way of explaining why she is emotional. I didn't see it as playing the rape card and asking people to be nice to her. People that have had problems tend to bond more with animals because people have hurt them. You seem to get a kick out of knocking vunerable people down.


There is exactly my point. Thank You churumbeque. as i recall and i can go back to the post Kevinshorses clearly stated i should take me and my horse and go see a physciatrist. Thanks for trying to help but, sadly they are getting a kick out of this. I've just given up answering them. it's not worth the fight. I appreciate the help though


----------

